I've heard some rumors that 'Thumbsucker' is in trouble of some kind. And in a way I'm glad if Elijah has dropped out of it. There were some elements of the story that I didn't think would help him much in progressing toward adult roles.

It seems like his part in 'Sunshine' came up at the last minute. Like someone offered it to him during the TTT press tour and he snapped it up recognizing that THIS was a chance he had been looking for. To work with a great script and an interesting new director. Now THIS is the way he should be going!

And it seems that 'Sunshine' may actually be getting released into theaters since I read that although it is considered an independent film it is backed by Universal Pictures!!!

Good choice,Lij!

Also 'Sunshine' is reported to be filming until April and I can see that it may have conflicted with 'Thumbsucker's filming schedule.

Far be it from me to criticize someone else's career choices, but I always thought that for an actor who wants to play "older" and who bites his nails with a vengeance, the role of a teenager who sucks his thumb was a particularly odd choice.......:eek:

Gee, I'm going to be the contrarian here, 'cause I really liked the book on which Thumbsucker is based. And I was very impressed that EW was attracted to the project because, he said (and I am paraphrasing from memory here) 'the book/film explores how an individual finds comfort and what is permissable in that search for comfort.' I think he would do the role brilliantly; and from what he said, they had 'aged' the character in the screenplay, so he was much older than when you first meet him in the book.

And tell me, please, if the main character is a teenager, how the devil is Keanu Reeves going to get away with portraying him? :rolleyes:

You know what I like most about Elwood stepping into the "Sunshine" role? He said last year (I think in the Brazilian interview he did) that his professional goal is to be able to work with the filmmakers he admires. I think working on this project reflects that his reputation and skills are being acknowledged.

:)

Originally posted by Vita S-B
I think working on this project reflects that his reputation and skills are being acknowledged.


That was my thought too, Vita. I was happy to see him finally being taken seriously as an actor as he was when he was younger. I don't know what it is, but Hollywood has some kind of mental deficiency where fantasy films are concerned. They seem to think if someone acts in a fantasy film, they mustn't be a real actor. Pardon my rant, but it's as hard (or harder!) to perform a role in a fantasy film as it is to do one in something 'serious'. I HATE the prejudice that Hollywood holds for fantasy - a genre that has earned enough money over the years that you would think those idiots would start to take it seriously. Sure, there is a lot of sucky fantasy, but there is also good stuff that suffers very unjustly from the bias! OK... end rant. If LOTRs doesn't prove to those idiots that fantasy films can be a force to be reckoned with, then they are just too stupid to be believed!

Well, TTT has left my local theaters. I don't think it was here as long as FOTR but I could be wrong. I hope it is still playing SOMEWHERE if and when the trailer is released because I am DESPERATE to see it. (yeah, spoiler lite? Who am I kidding?!) This is going to be a VERY long year!

Since I couldn't see TTT again, I saw the latest offering of my first fandom - the new Star Trek movie, Nemesis. Have to say it was VERY good! I was surprised! (BTW, how did Janeway get back to Star Fleet? Did I miss that? LOL!) I was surprised when I saw an EW connection in that film! I hadn't looked at any publicity or cast lists, but as I was watching, there was an actor portraying an alien with a heavy latex mask on. Maybe I have a good eye, or maybe I am just used to seeing this particular fellow in latex ;) but as I watched, it dawned on me that one of the characters was Ron Perlman! :D I was very proud of myself for picking 'Pap' out of that costume. OK, so maybe I am the only one who would be impressed... LOL!.

I also wanted to ask if there was a thread over here for bad subtitles. I saw something from Malaysia that is subtitled in English and it has to have the WORST subtitles I have ever seen. And the REALLY weird thing is, the film part is undubbed, and the subtitles are in english. Ummm... why? If anyone understands that, please explain it to me! Orcs are Oaks, Smeagol is Smeedle... and they even messed up Frodo's name! I wonder if they use a computer program to do these, because it seriously didn't look like someone who understood the English language had written these... either that or they were trying to be funny... I’ll have to see if I can find it again and report some of them on a thread somewhere. It was just amazing.

Ariel

You know, the more I think about 'Sunshine,' the more pleased I am that he took this role. Now, I'm so not a Jim Carrey fan, but I can suffer through his bits just to see the rest. And maybe he'll surprise me -- he did with 'Truman.'

But I loved 'Being John Malkovich,' and if this film is anywhere near as lovably quirky, it could be great for Elwood's career. Which thrills me to no end! :cool:


Lookie what I stumbled across last night while I was looking through my picture collection: a froshadowing! My first. Hee! :D

http://image1ex.villagephotos.com/1425035.jpg http://image1ex.villagephotos.com/1425036.jpg

Casey (I love Casey) from The Faculty, and Fro, "Do you know the way to Mordor?"

Now, I only have a 5 MB free image hosting account, so it may not be long before my bandwidth goes bye-bye. But we'll see; I did crop them, shrink them and lessen their quality a bit so they wouldn't take up so much bandwidth, so my fingers are crossed!

Lovely Froshadowing pickup, BunnieBugs! Well done! I also love Casey. Never thought that 'The Faculty' would turn out to be the type of movie I can watch over and over and over, but it did.:D

Ariel, Hollywood almost never goes for anything but verrrrry serrrrrrious and heavy RL topics for its Best Picture, Actor or Director awards. Now, if Frodo was a mentally ill, deformed hobbit who was ostracized and ridiculed by everyone around him before they recognized his true genius, he might get some recognition.;)

I'm glad Elwood is doing 'Sunshine' if only because it sounds like a film that will get a theatrical release! I don't know what goes through the minds of movie distributors. Look at some of the absolute crap that gets into the theaters...and then TRY and find films like 'Chain of Fools' and 'Try Seventeen'...or even any word of them. It's maddening. Winter is dismal and frustrating enough without this injustice!:mad: :confused: :(

TTT has left theaters in some areas already?!?:eek:

Vita, you and I had better make that date to see it together soon!

Ohh, Bunnie, the juxtaposition of those two pictures is wonderful! In addition to the froshadowing element, you can really see Elwood somewhat older as Frodo. I can't put my finger precisely on what makes the difference, but he definitely looks more grown up as Fro. Maybe it's the dirt!!:p

Alright, Goldie: get out your palm pilot and let's plot another escape to Middle Earth, before it's too late!:eek:

Just a "heads up" about Elijah on tv: Showtime Family (a cable movie provider in US) is showing "North" tonite at 7:00 Central time.

I ran across it this afternoon; it's fun, offbeat, filled with actors who have subsequently become quite well known (Julia Louis Dreyfuss, Jason Alexander, Bruce Willis...). The script has some problems, but Elijah at 13ish is delightful. The movie doesn't really hit a youth market: some of the humor is too mature and too based on boomer sensibilities. It also misses the adult market, since it is so kid-centric. Kind of tries for the inbetween humor of "Princess Bride" or the "Back to the Future" films.

I've been unable to locate this old EW film before, so was particularly pleased to stumble across it. Hope some of you can see it tonite!

It's interesting that you compared 'North' to one of my all-time favorite movies ('The Princess Bride'), Notablue--because IIRC, both were directed by Rob Reiner. I was disappointed that 'North's' humor was a lot broader than The Princess Bride's, and IMHO it didn't work nearly as well. Elijah was of course delightful, and his scenes with Bruce Willis were good. I didn't like most of the adult actors, even though they were a lot of big names. And the scheming little child tycoon-type drove me nuts! I couldn't stand the little brat!

Still, I could watch it again.:D

Vita: Palm Pilot at the ready!:eek:

Goldenberry, I had forgotten that Reiner directed Princess Bride. Of course! That's one of my and family's all time favorite films.

My Tolkien literate and loving 12 year old daughter (read & loved LotR at 8 and has fallen deeper ever since...) is kind of "crushy" on EW...we both really enjoyed North and thought that Elijah did a great job...even liked Willis, but would agree with you about the weakness of the rest of the adults. It was as though they didn't quite take the (admittedly weak) script seriously; we kept being distanced from the story. And we both thought the youngster who played the "mogul"/friend delivered his lines as though reading them. Badly. That, too, was distancing.

However, there are "moments": Elijah in Fiddler on the Roof...Elijah and the African parents...a moment of froshadowing, when even Sarah said "Moria!" when music and lighting and North and friend leaned into a dark doorway...

It was interesting to check this thread and Harem with the lovely screen caps and note how much older EW looks: elongated face, sunken cheeks devoid of baby fat, less roundness. Unless of course we see the birthday party pix!

Originally posted by BunnieBugs
Now, I only have a 5 MB free image hosting account, so it may not be long before my bandwidth goes bye-bye. But we'll see; I did crop them, shrink them and lessen their quality a bit so they wouldn't take up so much bandwidth, so my fingers are crossed!
Bunnie--great froshadowing! Expression, angle, everything so perfect!

And along a more mercenary line--I've just come from the Community Cafe bulletin board where Narya said that imagemagician is going to start charging for image hosting; I checked my account to see if there were any "loopholes," but it does seem as if they've given the people who already have free accounts there a two-week timeframe to either pay or lose our accounts. And their free hosting has been "only" 3 MB. So, Bunnie, is the site you use a possibility we imagemagicianers could check out? BTW--My solution to the limited space has been to delete images after awhile. It's not a perfect answer, as if someone goes back to a post from some months ago they'll just get one of those red x's, but I decided it was better than not being able to put up new ones. That's also why, if I have a whole set of screencaps, I put them on my website instead of in the thread as images. My ISP lets me link to a page on my website, but not to a specific image, so it doesn't work for that kind of posting (my website's also a freebie, so they have to be sure everyone "gets" to read their ads, y'know :rolleyes: ).

Interesting comments on North--especially since they mostly agree with mine :p . I really, really agree about it having problems reaching either the adult or children's market, for the same reasons Notablue gave. I also think Bruce Willis is the best adult in the movie--he at least seems to pay attention to the story and not treat it as skit comedy with a chance for a "star turn." The one disagreement I have is that I loved the Machiavellian little kid; I can't say much about his acting (my impression was that it was supposed to be rather stiff), but I thought that storyline was the funniest one in the movie.

I got my copy of North--as well as most of my other EW movies--at half.com, so I might suggest that as a place to try. Of course, I was buying them before FotR was released, so I might have had an easier time finding copies. I haven't been able to find a copy of the book it's based on, though--as far as I know, it's the only book I haven't read that's had an EW movie based on it.

But my big news today is that I finally have Child in the Night in my hands (or at least in my tote bag)!! I picked it up from the apt. office on my way to work this morning, so I know what I'll be doing tonight! Good thing to be doing, too--I usually love the two walls of floor-to-ceiling windows in my apartment, but when it's -12 F outside, the place gets a bit frigid. So something I can do cuddling under a blanket--like watching an Elwood movie I haven't seen :) --is the best possible activity.

Now that one was hard to find. I don't know if one reason for that was the fact that it's the one movie I didn't try to get hold of until after FotR came out. I ended up finally finding a used copy through Amazon. It looks in great shape (and there's a darling photo of little Lij on the back of the case :) ).

tgshaw! Hope you enjoy "Child in the Night"; will be eager to hear your impressions. I ran across it on network a couple of months ago, and of course had to watch it...it's kind of "made for tv" in the quality of its mystery, but EW, as always, makes it better than it really is...if you know what I mean!

OT: Here in central midwest (you know of what I speak!) we've finally caught up with the deep freeze in the rest of the country. Bundle up, fellow midwesterner! I haven't even set foot outside today. Nice. And "North" too!

Originally posted by tgshaw
So, Bunnie, is the site you use a possibility we imagemagicianers could check out? Definitely! It's called VillagePhotos.com, and can be found here. (http://photos.onebigvillage.com/index.asp)

Of course, I'm worried now that if imagamagician is charging, that they may start charging also. :( I hope not!

I just checked my bandwidth usage, and just those two photos have used up a bit over 45% of my allowance for the day. I just might make it! Good thing I altered them, or my 5 MB would have been sucked up long ago...

Hey Faculty,

I just wanted to wish EE and Maeg (and everyone else that's going) a brilliant time at the meet this weekend :) (They're probably away on their way already but no matter!) Have fun girls!

{{{ainon}}} I'm fine thanks for asking :) Everything is now in hand with the college work :D

That's a pity about imagemagician :( I read about that at CoE too. I signed up for an account several weeks ago but I'd not used it anyway - I suppose this sort of thing happens a lot.

Congrats on getting Child in the Night, tg! I hope you enjoy it - I've not been back at the video store to see if they've got it back in yet, not since they charged me £7.00 for returning a video late after one day! :D It's a matter of principle!


Originally posted by Goldenberry
And the scheming little child tycoon-type drove me nuts! I couldn't stand the little brat! Me too! What an annoyingly precocious little child! Good job EW was there too or I would have switched it off! :D

It's funny how Elijah's never seemed to 'be' a child, even when he was one, isn't it? He seems to have had this adult in the body of a child thing going on since he was just a little one, don't you think? Even when he's with other kids he's just set apart from them and I reckon there's more going on up top than with the other kids, he's a deep thinker - more sensitive and soulful. I suppose that's been discussed before here :D but what's wrong with a bit of deja vu?

Thanks Hobmom for your link to the Sunshine script, I scanned down quickly until I got to Patrick's part! I didn't really read any of the other stuff, just EW's lines, I don't want to read to much. It looks an interesting film though. I bet he's thrilled to be working with Kate, she is such an accomplished actress. I taped HC the other night and she played the barmy teenage murderess wonderfully. I wonder whether we'll be getting any interesting quotes on EW from his new co-stars? I love reading that kind of stuff.

Is it just me or has Jim Carrey put quite a bit of weight on? He used to be quite slim before didn't he?

Thanks also to Hobmom for the links to those wonderful screencaps that she put in the Harem (I do lurk there from time to time :) ) they are brilliant - actually I was just looking at the one of Smeagol pulling Frodo out of the marshes, and it made me think of the earlier Gollum/Ring discussion - what an opportunity he had of getting his hands on that Ring, if he'd been in Gollum 'mode' there!

Edit - I just remembered, I was looking through our daily paper a couple of days ago and there was a pic of Lij there, it was that one of him and his friends messing about at the airport as they saw a friend off. I mentioned it to my mother later - 'Did you notice my little hobbit's photo in the paper yesterday?' She said in a sort of far-away voice, 'Yes, he's got lovely blue eyes'. She finally acknowledged what everyone else noticed ages ago! My mother is becoming susceptable to The Eyes. My mother! ;) Is no-one safe?! :D

Oh well, bye for now!

{{{Faculty}}} {{{EW}}}

Originally posted by Luthiea
actually I was just looking at the one of Smeagol pulling Frodo out of the marshes, and it made me think of the earlier Gollum/Ring discussion - what an opportunity he had of getting his hands on that Ring, if he'd been in Gollum 'mode' there!
This just reminded me of something that I can't quite figure out, but I haven't thought to ask it before (a bit OT, but I'll pull it back around somehow). It has to do with this scene, and with Frodo's calling after Gollum/Smeagol after he's rescued him. Can someone tell me why they think Frodo calls to him like this? I always find myself wondering when I see that scene exactly what is going through Frodo's mind...

All I've come up with is that Gollum could have used this opportunity to steal the Ring, and didn't. So... what? Frodo's trying to reach out to him? I just find myself left in the dark by that whole thing... :confused:


Oh, and I almost forgot! Thanks, Deluby, for the wonderful GIFs! :) I'd never realized just how far Frodo's eyes fly open when he realizes he's been 'caught in the act' (so to speak) of stroking the Ring.

And I must say that that whole scene (dubbed "ringlust" by some folks I know :p )put a whole different spin on desire for the Ring that I'd never even considered before. It's absolutely mesmerizing and chilling, and Elijah floors me once again.

There. Told ya I could do it. :D

Originally posted by BunnieBugs
This just reminded me of something that I can't quite figure out, but I haven't thought to ask it before (a bit OT, but I'll pull it back around somehow). It has to do with this scene, and with Frodo's calling after Gollum/Smeagol after he's rescued him. Can someone tell me why they think Frodo calls to him like this? I always find myself wondering when I see that scene exactly what is going through Frodo's mind...
Hmmm... I always thought it was just because Frodo was so surprised to see that it was Gollum who'd pulled him out and not Sam--that he hadn't thought of Gollum as someone who'd do that for him (and so maybe he saw it as a positive sign that Smeagol's being restored?). Am I missing something there?

Thanks for reminding me... I knew there was a thread where the question 'did he or did he not touch the ring?' was asked. I knew the answer was yes, and now I have the proof.

http://www.frodosharem.org/Pics/touchring01.jpg
http://www.frodosharem.org/Pics/touchring02.jpg
http://www.frodosharem.org/Pics/touchring03.jpg
http://www.frodosharem.org/Pics/touchring04.jpg

These are in sequence (I'm pretty sure) and show Gollum just getting his finger into the circle of it... he tips it and it falls back. A definite touch, and since it is a CGI character, I have to assume this was a deliberate move on PJ's part.

Ariel

Bunnie Buggs and tgshaw: Sometimes when I'm so familiar with beloved Tolkien, and I'm seeing symbolism and linkages and allusions everywhere (!), it's hard for me to remember what all the average movie goer does not know...so, just IMHO:

Gollum's restraint from taking the Ring in those moments of Frodo's extreme vulnerability gives Frodo factual, viewer acknowledged credibility in his belief that Smeagol can return. Frodo and the movie viewer have each seen this one instant in which Gollum is able to act for another, beyond his lust for the Ring.

It's necessary that the movie goer see that Frodo might have an objectively reasonable basis for thinking that Gollum might be trustworthy, that Smeagol might be brought back. It also allows the viewer to think that there might be real hope for Frodo himself, if the scurrilous Gollum can act in helpful restraint.

Also, Frodo's gratitude for the rescue from the hellacious horror of the submerged Marshes, adds to the depth of his emotional response to Gollum. Suddenly, there is another aiding him, multiplying his support a hundred percent. It must have been very tempting to believe that there might be aid beyond himself and Sam.

I love the way Elijah is able to convey very complex emotions...and the way PJ tells the straightforward, and layers it with the deep meaning, too!

Hi all.

Firstly, deluby. Helloooo again. It's great to see you back here. I've missed you and your lovely gifs. Thanks for those two beautiful new ones. (sigh!!!) Btw, I hope you will be happy in your new home.

A big welcome too, to Rikka, Wildgoose, Flourish and anyone else I might have forgotten to mention here. It's really nice to see familiar - and new - names appear.

Elve. I love that 'Sunshine' set pic of Elijah (or was it Patrick?) you posted. I see the hair is coming back nicely. Yes, our boy looks VERY handsome there. Luthiea, I did the same as you with the script - just scrolled through it quickly and read Patrick's scenes. Did you notice - Kate (at least I think it's Kate playing Clementine) gets to kiss him!!! Lucky her!!! More kissing research Elve?

Tg. I noticed the 'two week trial' thing at imagemagician when I went there yesterday. I was trying to upload a couple of images of Elijah into my (free) account in order to post them here, and it just wasn't working for some reason. I'm in e-mail contact with their support team now trying to sort it. I'm not sure what I'll do when the two weeks are up. We've just upgraded to broadband, which I thought would be much better - but I've had problems now with imagemagician, and I tried to post here several times yesterday and kept getting 'website not responding'. It's so frustrating when you end up losing your posts! Of course, it may just be the sites having problems. Hope this one works.

Nothing much to contribute to the discussion, I'm afraid. I am mainly posting now to wish all of you off to the Brit hoot tomorrow a great day. EE, I got my dates mixed up (so what's new? I'm easily confused!). It isn't pay day until NEXT week, so I won't be seeing TTT on the day you're all in London after all. It will be Saturday 1st Feb before I get my long-awaited 2nd viewing.:( On the bright side, it will be something to look forward to.:) And on the very same day I get to turn the page of my LOTR calendar to February - and you all know who is there - Frodo and Sam, of course. I contrived to keep December 2002 on display for as long as I possibly could, as it is a beautiful moody Frodo, but hubby eventually caught on and changed it when I wasn't looking to January's Gandalf! Spoilsport!!!

I do lurk here as often as I can, even if I don't post very often (I am not worthy), and I love reading the varying opinions and views different people have formed on TTT. I know when I see it again next week I will be bearing your thoughts in mind, and concentrating totally (as ever) on Frodo's scenes. Was Frodo offering the Rng to the Nazgul? Was he about to put it on when Sam tackled him to the ground? I will be checking out Rikka's theory on the different 'rooms' in that scene at Henneth Anun. Did Sam or Gollum actually touch the Ring? (Looking at Ariel's great screencap sequence above appears to confirm than Gollum, at least, did get his sneaky little fingers to it. Just look at the expression on Frodo's face as he tries desperately to hold Gollum's hand away! Elijah never ceases to amaze and impress me with his wonderful portrayal of Frodo.

Btw, Tg, I love the caps on your website of the Frodo/Bilbo/Ring scene in Rivendell, and I really get a lot of insight from your remarks/take on what's going on there. I'm looking forward to seing your, 'What did Frodo pack?' sequence.

Ainon. Glad you finally got 'The War' on DVD. I love that film, and consider it the best bargain (got it really cheaply in a sale) DVD I have. The director's notes do concentrate rather a lot on the tree, don't they, but there is a nice piece on Elijah, which includes the following quote:

'Elijah Wood combines acting talent with a charismatic personality, and has emerged as one of Hollywood's leading young actors. In 1994 he was named Young Star of the Year.'

I wonder if he will receive suitable recognition in 2004!

Once again, to those travelling to the Brit hoot in London tomorrow (you're all probably there now anyway) - Safe journeys - there and back again. Be good, and enjoy!:)

Love.

To all who're mooting, enjoy yourselves at the Brit Hoot! :) :) :)


Re: Dead Marshes

Nota, that's the most brilliant post! And IMHO, there's another thing we can take from that scene: it's the moment when Frodo's pity for Gollum shifts to hope and faith in Gollum. Suddenly there's that glimpse of Smeagol, and Frodo knew now to look for him.

Speaking of Elijah's ability to convey layered emotions and meanings, his delivery for "Now that I see him, I do pity him" is absolutely perfect, isn't it? I'd wondered how PJ was going to do that - I was pretty sure there'd be another Gandalf flashback. But of course not. With Elijah we can have him reply to Sam *and* Gandalf at the same time. :)

{{{{Blossom}}}} I'm actually going for viewing #8 tomorrow, with a Tolkien virgin who simply fell in love with LOTR and Frodo first time she watched FotR last year. I'm eager to see how she'll react to TTT (she hasn't read the books, although she made me tell her the ending. I wish I hadn't. Sigh.) I'll keep you in mind, Blossom. Hope your one week will speed by quickly! :k

Bunnie - great Froshadowing, and thanks for the link. I've been having problems with ImageMagician too, Blossom, but I'd thought it was due to my slower connection. Kept getting timed out of the site. Bummer. I actually have a 'North' froshadowing to share with you guys.

Ariel:
I also wanted to ask if there was a thread over here for bad subtitles. I saw something from Malaysia that is subtitled in English and it has to have the WORST subtitles I have ever seen. And the REALLY weird thing is, the film part is undubbed, and the subtitles are in english. Ummm... why? If anyone understands that, please explain it to me! Orcs are Oaks, Smeagol is Smeedle... and they even messed up Frodo's name! I wonder if they use a computer program to do these, because it seriously didn't look like someone who understood the English language had written these... either that or they were trying to be funny... I’ll have to see if I can find it again and report some of them on a thread somewhere. It was just amazing.

Umm, first, patriotic pride forces me to say this: there really are a LOT of us here who are perfectly capable of speaking and spelling the Queen's English (please consider all oddities in grammar and spelling in my posts as typos :p ) and who cringe in eternal shame at the product that is now available internationally and is judged as representative of our nation.

OTOH, yeah, it is amazing, isn't it? You could die laughing. Some of the stuff is almost as classic as our Malay subtitles in the theatres (and believe you me, it's hard to top that. Our best stuff from last year's FotR -- English: "Sauron forged the One Ring"; Malay: "Sauron made a forgery of the One Ring" Oooh, that sure set the tone for the movie within the local context ;) ).

Anyway, to answer your question -- those are not legit subtitles. Think of 'em as Independent Subtitling. Such subtitles come with all 'DVD copy' of new movies. Gives the movies a 'DVD' feel, y'know? These guys aren't just ripping off Hollywood ... they're putting out quality products here. :D The finer quality DVD copies of DVD releases have no such tampering though.

Legit subtitles in the theatre will be in Malay and Chinese. We usually have an average of three to four rows of subtitles up on screen every time someone speaks. We do not have dubbing (Thank God). The Malay subtitles often send me off into fits of giggling when I should be sombre :rolleyes: :p So far this year I've managed to avoid reading a single Malay word while watching. That actually requires some effort on my part, because I usually instinctively read and watch at the same time.

To get back on topic ... 'The War' DVD actually retains the subtitle function. I watched that incredible scene where Elijah cries "Why'd He have to take my daddy?" and had the subtitles on. Another thing to note about Elijah's acting: every word he says is enunciated well and clearly. I was able to read and confirm that he'd been saying exactly what I've been hearing him say all this while. I don't know if I'm making any sense ... but there are actors who don't enunciate very well, IMO, and you wonder, 'What did he say?' sometimes while watching them. That certainly never happens when I'm watching Elijah as Frodo.

Elijah being himself though - there're moments in the cast commentary where no matter how many times I replay, I simply can't make out what he's saying!

Malaysion subtitles: From what I can tell, the "translators" have a limited grasp of English, and are trying to phoenetically transcribe what the characters say. Notice the translation becomes the funniest when the lines are garbled, or use English that is a little more slangy. Examples:

FotR Aragorn: These hills will be swarming with Orcs.
FotR Bootleg: The hill will swamp over with Ox.

TTT Eowyn: My lord, your son is dead... My lord... Uncle?
TTT Bootleg: My love, your son is dead... My love... Gandalf?

Viggo's pronounciation of "Orcs" in that particular line is accented heavily, and the R is almost missing; hence "ox." The TTT line is taken from a thread (http://www.council-of-elrond.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2197) at C-o-E. Originally posted by ainon
Another thing to note about Elijah's acting: every word he says is enunciated well and clearly. Absolutley. One of my disappointments with TTT is how so many of the lines are nearly incomprehensible -- the poor newbies! (And for some reason PJ picked those breathy sprint-and-battle moments to pony up archaic Tolkien dialogue -- "they run as if the very whips of their masters were behind them"...pardon me?) Bless Illuvatar, we were spared this at the Black Gate, which I would have had a lot of trouble comprehending if it weren't for Elijah Wood's acting skills:

Andy Serkis: Theris anotheay, wheeze mo secret...
Sean Astin: whyAVen'tyou spokinatis beFOE!
Elijah Wood to the Rescue: Are. You. Saying. There. Is. Another. Way. Into. Mordor?

Thank you, Elijah!

I suppose I should ask this here: How the HECK did Elijah get his voice so low when he says "You. Will. Lead. Us. To. The. Black. Gate." ? It must be Roisin Carty the dialogue coach. Anyone who can coax Liv Tyler out of the stratosphere can surely lower Elijah's voice.

Originally posted by erendis
Andy Serkis: Theris anotheay, wheeze mo secret...
Sean Astin: whyAVen'tyou spokinatis beFOE!
Elijah Wood to the Rescue: Are. You. Saying. There. Is. Another. Way. Into. Mordor?

Thank you, Elijah!

I don't have anything to add, except that I can't stop giggling over this transcription. :D Thank you, Erendis! Nice endorphin rush to start my day! ;)

Hope this is the right thread for this -- Lij is in a commercial on TBS (US basic cable station) for their movie showings. Previews for a lot of upcoming movies to be shown on TBS are followed by several stars/directors/etc., including Tom Cruise, Ron Howard, but Lij is the first, saying "That's why it's called..." then someone says "the superstation". Nice to see him in such powerful company.:D

Well, I have to delurk once again.

I saw the movie again yesterday. With a friend who has a much better ear for accents than I have.

I asked her about Elijah's accent and she agrees - it is IMPECCABLE. How does he do it?

Sean Astin doesn't manage (clearly American), Viggo Mortenson doesn't manage (don't get me wrong - I am ok with that - but they don't speak proper British English!).

But Elijah - I just *love* listening to his accent (as well as his voice).

I remember listening to his voice in that very first internet preview - I was horrified. I have nothing against American accents, but his normal vopice and accent was really not very nice at that point (not to my ear anyway).

And then the first trailer - 'They don't know it is here - do they Gandalf?' - I was *so* relieved. But he is even better in TTT!

I am very impressed indeed.


And when you hear him give interviews now his normal voice has also changed - he speaks American, but it seems much more polished. A very nice accent indeed :) His voice also has a different range now :) I guess he has grown up, too :D


Anyway - I really like what he did with his voice and accent :)



Just wanted to say that here. :)


Elwen

Originally posted by ainon
Nota, that's the most brilliant post! And IMHO, there's another thing we can take from that scene: it's the moment when Frodo's pity for Gollum shifts to hope and faith in Gollum. Suddenly there's that glimpse of Smeagol, and Frodo knew now to look for him.
I certainly agree, Nota--readers already know that Smeagol is a tragic figure, but if all the audience saw was Sam's "stinker" view of him, he wouldn't be a very complex character and certainly wouldn't gain any sympathy. I find it difficult (in a good way) to watch the scene of Smeagol celebrating his "freedom"--really brings the tragedy of it home to me, and it must set up a shock for newbies when Gollum comes back in full force in the scene with Faramir.

On the other Gollum scene that's been discussed--the one with Ariel's screencaps--when I saw the movie again two days ago, after almost a month away from it, I noticed how similar Frodo and Gollum's facial expressions are while they're struggling over the Ring. And the caps set up what could be a great Tolkien geek question: What would happen if one person (Frodo) was wearing the Ring around his neck and a second person (Gollum) got his finger inside it? Which one would actually be in possession of the Ring? :p

Anyway, to answer your question -- those are not legit subtitles. Think of 'em as Independent Subtitling. Such subtitles come with all 'DVD copy' of new movies. Gives the movies a 'DVD' feel, y'know? These guys aren't just ripping off Hollywood ... they're putting out quality products here. :D The finer quality DVD copies of DVD releases have no such tampering though.

Would you believe the English subtitles on the legit, U.S., SE DVD have a few mistakes? I've only watched it with the subtitles once, so can't remember all of them, but I do remember that "the Lay of Luthien" becomes "the Lady Luthien." I'm not sure if I'm curious enough about the others to watch it that way again, although I did learn that if you take a screencap of a frame with a subtitle, the subtitle shows up on the pic--I kind of like the one with "Some who die deserve life."

Blossom--I'm not actually doing a series of pics of "what did Frodo pack?"--whatever it was didn't have a great emotional range in its acting ;) . I have the thread (http://members.tripod.com/afewwords_tgs/id140.htm) copied onto my website with one picture of The Thing. I might stick an email link at the end of the thread in case anyone wants to add anything. The last post on the old thread just happens to be one of mine, with my old, "By Elbereth and Luthien the Fair, you shall have neither the Ring nor me!" sig (and, "She-elf! What she-elf?" at the beginning). It kind of adds to the fun of reading the thread to see everyone's "old" titles, locations and sigs. :)

(Hope you know I'm just giving you a hard time, Blossom :) -- I assume you mean the pics of Frodo while he's doing the packing :p . I should have them posted some time next week.)

And the caps set up what could be a great Tolkien geek question: What would happen if one person (Frodo) was wearing the Ring around his neck and a second person (Gollum) got his finger inside it? Which one would actually be in possession of the Ring? :p


Hi TG! Good question--if the films are any indication of its unreliable behavior, the first thing that would happen is that that silly chain would break again, and Gollum would be in possession.

Great insight into Frodo's response to being saved by Gollum--thanks to all for that.

TG, I hope you'll have a picture of Frodo shaking out and stuffing into his pack that nicely folded shirt that Gandalf handed him!:p I love that.

Originally posted by Flourish
Hi TG! Good question--if the films are any indication of its unreliable behavior, the first thing that would happen is that that silly chain would break again, and Gollum would be in possession.
:D :D Those Elves at Rivendell really should have made the chain out of hithlain! With the more active, stronger movie-Ring, if there were a Nazgul anywhere around, the Ring would probably try to get onto someone's finger so the Nazgul could find it. (And this isn't quite on topic, but in the SE I love how Isildur just rips the Ring from the chain to put it on.)

TG, I hope you'll have a picture of Frodo shaking out and stuffing into his pack that nicely folded shirt that Gandalf handed him!:p I love that.
It's kind of strange, and I don't understand why, but somehow that bit didn't seem as funny to me when I watched it frame-by-frame--seemed more desperate, or something. That might be one reason I didn't make caps of it, but I can always make more :p and am open to suggestions! I'll give it a shot.

----------------

Well, I watched Child in the Night and, yes, IIRC it was a made-for-TV movie and it has all the trappings, including not "aging" well, IMHO; it's definitely made for a certain time, and that was 1990. I'd say this especially about the romantic relationships, including the date the female psychologist is on at the beginning of the movie. The "main" relationship, between her and the police detective, had more problems than that, I think. The first part, which was, "We don't like each other, but we're both pretty good in bed, so let's just have sex," seemed more believable than the later part, when they were supposed to care about each other (this is broadcast TV from 1990, so we don't see the sex--we just know it happens). I don't know if it's what you'd call "lack of chemistry," but I just didn't feel any kind of emotional attachment between them.

I haven't seen Tom Skerrit in much, but I've seen JoBeth Williams and Daryn McGavin do much better acting (I'm writing this at work, so am guessing at name spellings). That makes me wonder about the quality of the directing, which also might have affected Elijah. Don't get me wrong--he was good in the role; the fantasy scenes where he's imagining himself to be Peter Pan were well done (the costume was about "trick or treat" level, but IMO that's just how an 8-year-old would imagine it). There was even some froshadowing in his expressions, especially his wide-eyed shock during the murder. But this movie was made the same year as Avalon, with Barry Levinson directing, and Elijah goes far beyond "good" in that one.

Another effect of being made in 1990 for 1990 is that a lot of what's said regarding psychology, and children, and reacting to grief, etc., seems really trite now--but in 1990 that wouldn't have been nearly as true. So when it was shown on TV, a lot of people probably learned something from it (but not about romance :rolleyes: ). [But does anyone still eat pizza with anchovies on it :confused: ?]

As far as being a mystery, I'll just say that I guessed whodunit long before the end, but I was never completely sure (partly because it was so obvious, not from the plot but from the acting). And other "mysterious" aspects, such as the secrets being hidden by various parties, are pretty easy to spot. But it seemed to "play fair" with the audience (I really hate it when a mystery--book or movie--ends up being solved through a piece of evidence the audience isn't aware of), and it did set up some interesting red herrings--a couple of which actually ended up tying into the actual solution, which says something positive about the writing (of the plot, anyway--some of the dialogue... :rolleyes: ). One of the best things about it, compared to other movies of the same genre, is that the psychologist isn't nearly as stupid as most women who end up "in jeopardy" at the story's climax. She actually does some smart things to keep herself safe (but, of course, they don't work, or the police detective wouldn't have anything to save her from). I don't think that's giving away too much... ;)

Hmmm... After writing this, I feel more positive about the movie as a whole than I did before, especially about the plot. My main problem with it was trying to see the two main adult characters and their relationship as "real," which could be partly a directing problem, partly a problem with the dialogue, or maybe just stems from it being a made-for-TV movie, without as much time for the actors to "get to know" their characters as would happen with a feature film.

Of course, Elijah wears blue throughout. ;)

Originally posted by Tgshaw (Hope you know I'm just giving you a hard time, Blossom :) -- I assume you mean the pics of Frodo while he's doing the packing :p . I should have them posted some time next week.) [/B][/QUOTE]

Er, yes, Tg. I would much rather look at Frodo DOING the packing than the apples, bread and clothes he's throwing into his pack. ;) Of course, any seqence of caps of Frodo from 'Fellowship' are worth seeing again, IMO. Thanks Tg. Btw, Glad you finally got to see 'Child in the Night'. It would be interesting to see EW in that, having been made the same year as 'Avalon'. I love Elijah as little Michael. He was terrific - 'Avalon' is one of my favourite EW films.

Oh, Luthiea, I know you're probably enjoying yourself at the Brit hoot at the moment, but I forgot this in my last post - Luthiea's mother - admitting Elijah has 'beautiful blue eyes.' Now that's almost a swoon - Can this be the same woman who thought EW looked like Marty Feldman? Good work, Luthiea, you are slowly converting her to our way of thinking!:)

Ainon - hope you and your friend enjoyed TTT. Your 8th viewing! I see I have a lot of catching up to do!

Love.

Hi there :)

Bloss I didn't go to the Brit Hoot :( I was supposed to be but work dictated otherwise :( (Come to think of it I could have just gone, the hotel was empty tonight! I sat and read or should that be tried to read some of the Silmarillion while the hours dragged by) I met some folk from CoE/KD at Xmas and hope to meet more folk soon (including some Faculty folk at some point! ;) ) I'm sure EE and Maegs will have plenty to tell us about the BH when they get back ;)

Yeah, maybe my mum's getting some good taste now, it made me smile when she said that about EW - best not push it though! :p

Oh I want to see Avalon, I need more little-EW films to watch! :D

Just think it's Elijah's Birthday on Tuesday! He'll be 22 - I wonder what he's got planned? :D

Luthiea x

Your transcription of the Serkis/Astin/Wood dialogue was hilarious, erendis! He really is always very easy to understand, and he sounds comfortable with it too. (In contrast I remember that Sean Astin said in some interview that he never felt comfortable with the accent - and sadly it does show)

Without trying to make a serious comparison between his roles, it seems to me that there's something about speaking in an accent that seems to make EW's acting a little more focused (e.g. in the War and LOTR) , maybe because it requires more attention to the nuances and phrasing of the script. And the English accent really brings out the best qualities in his voice. I remember when the first film came out, I was worrying that while the accent sounded good to my American ears, it might sound a little fake or artificial to English ears (e.g. like Robert Downey in "Restoration") and provoke some criticism, seeing as people were initially upset over American actors being cast in such critical roles.

This might have been quoted before here, but I just saw this nice sentence over at the Greg's Previews Page on Yahoo, for the "Eternal Sunshine" listing:

" As the respect and clout of Kaufman's originality and writing skill grows, his films continue to be able to attract A-list talent, even for supporting roles (Dunst, Wood). "

A-LIST! YES! That's what I like to see! It's nice to see little hints of his growing "name" status, like that TBS ad Farawyn mentioned. I think the next year or two will see a real quantum step up in his career. I think the observation has been made before but still bears repeating, that even his small size and unique, unusual looks, which might seem an obstacle, may work to his advantage - if there's a role for which he's the right actor, he'll be the only actor who's right for it. And even if he doesn't get any formal, Oscar/Golden Globes/BAFTA -type recognition for his work in LOTR after ROTK, there'll certainly be recognition in the industry for his contributions to it.
And speaking of A-list status, there's that E! channel special coming up, "Young Hollywood - Players or Played out?" I wonder how he'll be presented in that. The description on their website says that it includes "commentary" from EW - does that mean he's not one of the young contenders in question, but a grizzled veteran speaking with the benefit of his accumulated wisdom? ;) The schedule for that show is: Premieres: Mon., Feb. 3, 10 p.m.
Encores: Feb. 5, 9 p.m.; Feb. 7, 4 p.m.; Feb. 8, 12 & 7 p.m.; Feb. 9, 9 a.m

Interesting description of Child/Night, tgshaw. Sounds like it was good experience for him, but how much actual screen time does EW get? Is it worth buying just for him, as compared to Avalon? (And yes, for your information, some of us DO still eat pizza with anchovies! - but these days we're forced to do it in the privacy of our own homes:p not that I would usually admit that in public! Most pizza places don't seem to offer anchovies anymore - more evidence of the decline of civilization...)

Many happy returns to the Birthday Boy this week!

Originally posted by Wild Goose
Without trying to make a serious comparison between his roles, it seems to me that there's something about speaking in an accent that seems to make EW's acting a little more focused (e.g. in the War and LOTR) , maybe because it requires more attention to the nuances and phrasing of the script.
There are some cringeworthy moments with his accent in Oliver Twist, but considering the combination of problems with that movie my guess is that the direction was pretty weak and the actors were left to their own resources a lot. In an interview following that movie, EW said doing the accent was easy--as opposed to his being embarrassed when caught on camera practicing his accent for LotR. One of the things that makes me think it helps him to be pushed a bit.

I don't know how to say the following without it sounding negative--and I don't mean it to be--but it seems to me that in LotR Elijah tends to physically exaggerate his vowels as a singer might (e.g., in how wide he opens his mouth). Maybe I'm just used to our more "slovenly" way of pronunciation in America, and I'd be interested in whether any Brits have noticed this or whether to them it looks perfectly natural. But since our mouths are actually shaped somewhat by our earliest speech patterns, it would make sense that to do any kind of an accent later in life (that is, after early childhood, when the palate is fully formed)would necessitate doing something a little "unnatural." I remember seeing a picture of Elijah working with one of the LotR dialect coaches; he had his mouth open and she had her fingers placed on either side of his throat, which made me think they must have been working on some specific verbalization technique. One thing the LotR experience would have given him is some of the best vocal coaching around. As Elwen mentioned, it's probably even made his "American" easier to understand. Be interesting to see if that's a temporary effect or one that stays with him.

Interesting description of Child/Night, tgshaw. Sounds like it was good experience for him, but how much actual screen time does EW get? Is it worth buying just for him, as compared to Avalon?
IMHO, it can't begin to compare with Avalon. If you have a choice between the two of them, Avalon's far and away the one to get. It's a much better movie, and Elijah's character is much more interesting. IMVHO, what was wanted for Child in the Night was a generic eight-year-old boy, and that's what they got: very well acted for what he had to work with, but nothing that made him an individual except for his fascination with Peter Pan (which ended up being an interesting plot device, and gave him his best chances to really act, during the fantasy scenes, but didn't really do much to develop the character).

OTOH, Avalon not only had a good director in Barry Levinson, who's probably best known for directing Rainman (in which, I have to say, he managed to get some well-nuanced acting out of Tom Cruise :eek: ), but the movie's autobiographical and Elijah's playing the character based on the writer/director as a young boy. So, as you'd expect, the character's a well-developed, specific individual, with real experiences and what I thought were wonderfully age-appropriate ways of responding to the situations he finds himself in. This character has real emotions for Elijah to sink his teeth into--and he does, very believably.

The Child/Night "eight-year-old boy" comes across as more of a plot device--"Let's see. We need an idea for a movie-of-the-week mystery. How about a kid who's the only witness to his father's murder and won't talk about it? What kind of a kid? Oh, I dunno--a boy, I guess." That might be a bit harsh (we do have the fantasy scenes), but it's how I'd describe the difference between the two movies as far as Elijah's opportunity to do some acting.

Regarding screen time--Elijah's not the lead in either movie (Aiden Quinn, playing his father, is the lead in Avalon; the psychologist and police detective are the main characters in Child/Night), but he plays an important character in each of them so has a fair amount of screen time. As a TV movie (with the ads removed :p ), Child/Night is quite a bit shorter than Avalon, so there's less screen time in general.

Child/Night is probably of interest mostly to people who have a strange desire to watch/collect every movie Elijah's made (like me :o ). Avalon, OTOH, is a great movie on its own; I enjoyed it very much when I originally saw it in the theater, and the only blue eyes I paid attention to then were Aiden Quinn's ;) . Interesting, though--when I rewatched the movie a couple of years ago I realized it was Elijah's character and his storyline I'd remembered most vividly, even though at the time I had no idea who he was. If, say, five years after I'd seen the movie in the theater, someone had asked me what its story was, it's Elijah's part in it that I would have talked about.

(And yes, for your information, some of us DO still eat pizza with anchovies! - but these days we're forced to do it in the privacy of our own homes:p not that I would usually admit that in public! Most pizza places don't seem to offer anchovies anymore - more evidence of the decline of civilization...)
LOL -- That came up in the movie because the kid and his father were going to get pizza (but dad got bumped off first) and Elijah's character said he wanted pizza with anchovies. His father asked why, and he said because he always heard people order, "Pizza with everything, but hold the anchovies," so he wanted to know what they were like. (You can tell how much of an individual this character was--I watched the movie a few days ago, and can't remember the kid's name :rolleyes: .)

Originally posted by Tgshaw
I don't know how to say the following without it sounding negative--and I don't mean it to be--but it seems to me that in LotR Elijah tends to physically exaggerate his vowels as a singer might (e.g., in how wide he opens his mouth). Maybe I'm just used to our more "slovenly" way of pronunciation in America, and I'd be interested in whether any Brits have noticed this or whether to them it looks perfectly natural. Tg: The only vowel sound of EW's that I've noticed in LoTR is his "O", and that's because it sounds American ("Get off the road", "You've only just arrived" etc.). The rest of them sound fairly accurate to me and not like the sort of "Italian" vowel sounds that a singer would use - though someone involved professionally in music (Tala? Meryl?) might be able to add something more profound to the debate.

It was lovely meeting Maeglian and Eagle's Eyrie over the weekend. I'm sorry that my organisational role meant that I didn't get to spend nearly enough time chatting with them or, indeed, anyone else :(

Maeglian very kindly gave me a copy of Chain of Fools which some of us watched last night. I enjoyed it, although I must watch it again when I have fewer distractions! Suffice to say that there was much girlish shrieking at Elijah's Bellboy outfit and his "Nooooooooo" :D

Thinking about it, Elijah's accent WAS perfect in TTT - or at least, I didn't notice any slips. There WERE one or two in FOTR - pity they couldn't iron them out - after all, they DID re-record everything by looping, didn't they? How frustrating for the cast and director - and how odd for us to know that they didn't say everything "in that moment"!

I suppose Aragorn DOES slip now and then. So do Eowyn (BRILLIANT as she is!) and Eomer. And of course Gimli goes into Welsh a great deal, too.

Cate Blanchett's accent is perfect too, I think.

Sorry - this was all for comparative reasons.

Back on topic, I can now add "Chain of Fools" to my "Lijography"! Quite enjoyed the film, actually - thought it was rather like a French film in style and (partly) in music. It was an amusing precursor when Lij yelled "NOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!", and also I kept expecting him to say "I can't do this, (Sam!)" and drop his gun whenever he was trying to be a really 'ard hitman!

Also saw the arcade bit of "Back to the Future 2" over Christmas. Go me!

Still like "The Ice Storm" and "North" best. Give me surreal any time! I know he's great in "The War" but I'm kind of put off by the "Costner" factor ...

"Radio Flyer" is a touch - well - SILLY.

So is "Flipper", but I like it! :eek:

(((((Faculty)))))

Originally posted by Ghyste
Tg: The only vowel sound of EW's that I've noticed in LoTR is his "O", and that's because it sounds American ("Get off the road", "You've only just arrived" etc.). The rest of them sound fairly accurate to me and not like the sort of "Italian" vowel sounds that a singer would use - though someone involved professionally in music (Tala? Meryl?) might be able to add something more profound to the debate.
I'm not thinking of the sound so much as how he produces it. Does he have to enunciate more sharply or open his mouth farther than a "native speaker" would have to do in order to get the same sound? Not that this is related to anything important, mind you. But, hey, when has that ever stopped us :p ?

Glad the get-together went well--now I'm even more envious of people who've seen CoF (wonder what happened to that January release date?). :(

tg--the information at Videoeta.com now claims :rolleyes: that Chain of Fools will be released on video in April, but I will believe it when I see it. The only place to get a commercial copy I know of is yesasia.com, but those are formatted for a different region than the US. Has anyone here in the states been able to play the Pacific region DVD in their US machine?

I still can't figure out what Warner Bros is waiting for. Now, in addition to the high profiles of Elijah Wood and Salma Hayek, who perform in Chain of Fools, the film's lead Steve Zahn is in a film being widely distributed and advertised (National Security, tho' it has not garnered the best reviews). Not to mention the contributions of Jeff Goldblum and Tom Wilkerson. There must be some serious behind the scenes stuff going on for them not to release it now....

And I still can't find anything about the potential release of Try Seventeen. Have I mentioned that I am looking forward to seeing that? ;)

:k to all Brit Hoot attenders!!

Welcome back to all the Brit Hoot mooters! :)

tg, thanks for the 'Child in the Night' review. It's a tape, is it? So no screencaps? :( I've grown to really enjoy all your detailed acting analysis, with caps thrown in for emphasis! I wish I had screencapping capabilities, at the very least I might then be able to cap stuff from 'The War' that most websites don't have. The DVD pic quality is *really* amazing!

Off-topic cultural differerence thingy - people on American TV shows were always ordering pizza without anchovies. It was a mystery to me. :p It was years before I finally knew what anchovies were (I have a terrible condition whereby I'm terminally reluctant to check the dictionary unless I absolutely, absolutely have to. somehow the need to know what Americans weren't putting on their pizzas never struck me as being that crucial :D ) . Anchovies = type of fish, right?

Bunnie - I've registered for an account at VillagePhotos. Thanks. A lot of instructions to read there though! The saddest thing about Imagemagician going commercial: we're going to lose all of deluby's beautiful gifs! :( :(

About accents --

In the FotR cast commentary Elijah talked about having to redo his Weathertop line, "What are you doing?!" when Frodo awakes and discovers that the other hobbits had a fire going - but I didn't quite get what Elijah meant. Did he mean that the accent was wrong? Or did he mean that his intonation was all wrong?

Just a quick aside, during the scene in Bag End where Frodo turns to ask Gandalf, "Do they, Gandalf?" , the hobbit boys joke about that scene was one of the earliest to show up in trailers, and that Elijah got sick of seeing it himself. Then Sean Astin says something about how in one theatre, during the later half-life of that trailer ... ... what's Astin saying?!! Someone please tell me - it's been bugging me for months! :p

And it's already halfway through 28/1/2003 here so ---

Happy Birthday, Elijah Wood!

Originally posted by ainon

Bunnie - I've registered for an account at VillagePhotos. Thanks. A lot of instruction to read there though.

Really? Maybe I skipped most of them. It seemed pretty self-explanatory to me, but I've not really used it that much, yet.

Then Sean Astin says something about how in one theatre, during the later half-life of that trailer ... ... what's Astin saying?!! Someone please tell me - it's been bugging me for months! :p

He says something about how the audience quoted the line along with Frodo, because they'd obviously seen it many, many times, as well. Probably the "No one knows it's here, do they? Do they, Gandalf?"


And it's a bit early for it here, but I'll jump on the bandwagon:

Happy, happy 22nd birthday, Elwood!

Well I thought I’d be tied up for the rest of the week but I’ve managed to pop in – just a couple of things to mention:

Vita – I bought my copy of Chain of Fools from yesasia – it played fine on both of my DVD players (I live in California and bought both players here, so they’re just regular US region players.) It comes in VCD (video cassette disc format) and they should play on any recent model DVD player – just check your player's manual for the formats it will play. The movie’s spread out over 2 discs with no scene breaks, which is a little bit of a drag, and they have Chinese subtitles, but they’re not too intrusive. But it’s cheap! And the service from yesasia was prompt (it was mailed from their San Francisco office), so I recommend buying from them.

Ainon – anchovies= teeny-tiny little fish with a very strong salty flavor and tiny harmless bones. American pizza is all about cheese these days (way too much cheese IMO) and anchovies can’t compete anymore, apparently…

Tg – I had forgotten about Oliver Twist! I’d blotted that out of my memory, I think!…you’re right about his voice production sounding different in LOTR than in real life – but come to think of it, it doesn’t seem to me to be much more exaggerated than some English actors when they’re in certain kinds of period or theatrical roles. At any rate we can still all be thankful that PJ didn’t opt for American accents a la Kevin Costner’s Robin Hood.

My curiosity got the better of me, and I took a peek at the first few scenes of the Eternal Sunshine script:
The first description of ew’s character Patrick is from Kate Winslet’s character, on page 27. – she talks about him for a whole page. Beware because it gives away MAJOR plot points. Sounds like he was perfectly cast! Patrick makes his first appearance on page 36. – I tore myself away from it at that point! It seems to be a fairly major supporting role – this may be more like an ensemble piece than just a star vehicle for Carrey and/or Winslet. Winslet is well cast too. I like what I’ve read of the script. This will certainly be much better than Gondry’s other movie Human Nature (script by someone else anyway, I think?) – gosh almighty! What little I saw of it (I quit after the first 20m mins) was awful. Has anyone else seen that film? I couldn’t get a sense from that of what Gondry might be like as a director of actors. Despite the title, there was no genuine human behavior in the bit I saw. Surreal film is one thing, but there's good surreal, and then there's pretentious, bad surreal...

Just wanted to stop by and say happy birthday to our favorite geekboy. Hope his day is as wonderful as he is! :D

Vita, that Chain of Fools VCD should work in any US DVD player that plays VCDs (not all do, so check your manual). And it's only $7.99 and well worth it!

Hugs and kisses to the faculty! :k

Just a short aside -- here are some screencaps (http://home.online.no/~gremmem/engrish_ttt_captions/index.htm) of the totally bad English translations from an Asian DVD. It think it IS phoenetic.

EDIT: Warning: do not eat or drink anything while you are browsing.

So much for Elijah's clear and correct intonation: :rolleyes:

http://home.online.no/~gremmem/engrish_ttt_captions/60-80/two-towers-09.jpg

The subtitles of those screencaps are just hilarious. (Not to mention the possibility of studying the images themselves. ) Thanks, erendis.

And Happy Birthday to Elijah!!

Thanks for the link to those screencaps and "Engrish" subtitles, erendis! A good side-splitting laugh is a fine way to start the day.:D

And just in case anyone's lurking ;) :
Happy Birthday, Elijah!

Erendis, thanks for those caps! I *really, really* needed that major laugh just now! :cool: Talk about tentative phonetic rendition of the dialogue. Dwarf = wolf, Rivendell = River Death, wrath = rat.... Not to mention that the person responsible obviously could echo Smeagol in his question about what "taters" may be, eh, precious?? There are just too many gems. "The strength of the ring barrel is fading"; - luckily that probably means the Ring *bearer*, OTOH, is doing OK?

I'm sorry to say that I can't contribute much if anything to the discussion about Elijah's way of speaking English in LotR and pronouncing words. To me it sounds wonderful, and I love his low-key, pleasant, soft voice in the films. Being almost unable myself to speak plain English at certain times (as some of the hooters will be able to attest :o), I certainly can't comment on his accent. It sounds fine to me.
(I can however, manage to hear that something is off with his "cockney" (??) accent in Oliver Twist. I don't mind that though, I think it's just so totally endearing. His cheerful "We'll be notorious!!" is a real gem IMO. )

And of course; I have to end the post by sending greetings to all the Brit Hooters, and the Frodolls, and the action-figure Fros with Sting glowing green when haremites are near and doing stuff behind his back...... :eek: , and finally by saying:Happy birthday and many, many happy returns, Elijah!!! Just in case......


Edit: I have to chime in on the all-important anchovies debate, too. While having a meal in London this weekend, I noted that pizza with anchovies *was* on the menu. Not that I opted for that one, but it still does exist, anyway!

You do know we expect a review of the Moot, Maeg?

Happy Birthday, Elijah! The world would not be the same without you.

Had to come celebrate a bit with those who'd understand. ;)

Sheryl

Originally posted by ainon
tg, thanks for the 'Child in the Night' review. It's a tape, is it? So no screencaps? :( I've grown to really enjoy all your detailed acting analysis, with caps thrown in for emphasis! I wish I had screencapping capabilities, at the very least I might then be able to cap stuff from 'The War' that most websites don't have. The DVD pic quality is *really* amazing!
Yep, Child in the Night is on tape, but there's really not a heckuva lot that I'd want to screencap from it, anyway (again, maybe some of the Peter Pan sequences).

I'm ordering DVDs as I run across a used one or a really good price on a new one. So far I've ordered Ash Wednesday (well, paid normal price for that) and The Ice Storm--those two will come together after AW is released. Then Huck Finn--which I should be getting around the middle of Feb. And a used copy of Bumblebee--which will likely be the first one to be delivered because it doesn't have to wait for anything else.

I haven't run across "cheap" DVDs of any other Elwood movies at this point, but now that I've convinced myself it's okay to buy them--even when I already have the movie on VHS--I'm sure I'll keep going until I have all the ones I can get :rolleyes: . (One exception to the above: While searching for "Elijah Wood" I did find that there are some very cheap used copies of Tom Thumb out there--can't imagine why :p . For that one I think I'll stick with my VHS copy--nothing to screencap, anyway ;) .)

The one movie that seems to be available on DVD outside region 1--but not within it--is The Good Son. There are some I haven't seen available on DVD at all (only on VHS): Paradise, Oliver Twist, North, Radio Flyer [now that one I'd like to have on DVD!]... maybe one or two I'm forgetting.

Regarding VCDs -- My DVD player is my computer, and I checked the info on VCDs this morning before I came to work. I even printed it out, so I could post it here and have someone who knows something tell me if it would work--but--of course-- :rolleyes: --I forgot to bring the printout to the office. I'm sure if I tried to remember what it said, I'd just make things more confused than they are, so will have to post that later.

I can change the region setting, but only 4 times during the life of the computer. I suppose it's set that way so you can change it if you move to another region, but won't be tempted to keep changing it back and forth--if I did change it for, say, The Good Son, I'd probably only want to borrow a DVD long enough to get screencaps from it and then change the setting back to region 1. But surely there's someone outside region 1 who'd be willing to take on that terrible job ;) !

Even though I've got birthday wishes in my avatar/location today, I realized I'd better post something or no one would see them!! And just so there's a greeting that won't be gone tomorrow, I'll add a--

Happy 22nd Birthday, Elijah Wood!

BTW--Erendis, I started checking out those subtitles, but soon realized it's not something to be done at the office with the boss a few feet away--I'd pull a few muscles trying not to laugh!! Got enough of a taste that I'll sure look at the rest later.

Edit: And good heavens--I missed Sheryl's post!! Hi!!! if you're still reading...

Hi folks!

Hullo Sheryl :)

I've not got anything interesting to say (hey what else is new?! :p ) except to echo the words of my fellow Facultiers -

HAPPY (SLIGHTLY BELATED) 22nd BIRTHDAY, ELIJAH!!! :k

Was that Sheryl??? Hi there! Welcome home!! We miss you...

Wonderful avatar today, tg. Perfect for the event.

Hi All!
Just pop in to say:
HAPPY BIRTHDAY ELIJAH!!!!
:)

Vita S-B
So should I ask Moggy to restore my old name?

Well, if it helps any I will always think of you as Peaceweaver!

Niphredil
I kept expecting him to say "I can't do this, (Sam!)" and drop his gun whenever he was trying to be a really 'ard hitman!

LOL - Niph!


I got home from the hoot yesterday and had totally forgotten that it was Elijah's birthday until I turned on the Irish teletext service that shows celebrity birthdays. It was a real "d'oh" moment because I had known that I was returning on his birthday. So I raised a metophorical glass to his health and put on Chain Of Fools (Thanks Maeg!) to celebrate. I had seen all Elijah's scenes already but it was still great to see them in context. It was an hilarious movie.

What's this about the bum shot though? I don't remember that. Harem, please do tell! :D

I had a fantastic time at the Hoot. Great to meet you Maeg. Wish we could have talked longer. Great to meet everybody - won't mention everybody cause I'll be bound to forget somebody, but you all know who you are. :)

Now - it's about time we organised a Faculty Meet!

Blossom: Hope you enjoy the film at the weekend. It has been a long wait for you.

Sheryl: Welcome back. Hope you had a nice sabbatical.

A Faculty Meet! Wouldn't that be lovely. But, sadly, there are so few of us in central US, I think.

Random musings looking for a home: As CNN scrolled birthdays yesterday, they included "Elijah Wood (Lord of the Rings), 22." Nice to see him included in this little recognition, nationally!

Also, was just looking at screen caps at the Harem (see lovely warm smiling Frodo turning to Sam...) and again "noticed" Elijah's eyes...and remembered seeing an interview earlier this week with a pretty young woman, daughter of Diana Ross, who also has large striking eyes.

The point was that I became aware that EW's irises are themselves striking, not just in color, but also size...unless he is deliberately "showing the whites" as in the "they're here" scene, his eyes continue to be rimmed with lash rather than cornea.

Well, this IS the Faculty Lounge...and this can't be any more "technical" than that earlier discussion about the freckle!

Perhaps I should just leave it in Harem with a "thud." Oh, those eyes!

Originally posted by Notabluemaia
A Faculty Meet! Wouldn't that be lovely. But, sadly, there are so few of us in central US, I think.
I think that's true. The two of us (Nota & I) are probably the closest to each other, with about a 3-hour drive between Omaha and Kansas City. Sheryl's in Indiana, which would be considered "central US," but at a wildly inaccurate guesstimate she's maybe about 800 miles away, given that there's all of Iowa, all of Illinois, and part of Indiana between us (as well as part of Missouri for Nota). Bridget is in Omaha once in awhile to visit her grandparents, which is how we got together at the end of December. And, finally, Hellga lives in Omaha (of course, we're on opposite ends of the city :rolleyes: )--she's a KDer but I don't remember ever seeing her in the Faculty Lounge (the poor girl is incurably Elfcentric :( --not even Bridget and I working together could convince her of the superiority of Hobbits and those who play them ;) ).

--And that's everyone I know of. If there's anyone else here (posting or lurking) who's around this part of the country, let us know!!

The point was that I became aware that EW's irises are themselves striking, not just in color, but also size...unless he is deliberately "showing the whites" as in the "they're here" scene, his eyes continue to be rimmed with lash rather than cornea.
In one of the recent interviews (one of the more "informal" ones--maybe Gear?), the interviewer said Elijah's eyes don't just look huge--they are huge. Now, if we ever get a chance to take those facial proportion measurements :p ... One of the theories about why humans find certain things attractive (not necessarily sexually so), says that large eyes encourage a protecting/nurturing response because babies have large heads/eyes in relation to their bodies; if that's true, it doesn't help EW's "looking younger than he is" situation, but I could see it having something to do with the number of honorary mothers, aunts, and grandmothers he has concerned about his welfare :) . Who, me?

-------------

Well, I remembered my VCD info today, and had even typed it all in here. But after I'd entered it, I read it a few more times and it seems to say pretty clearly that my DVD program will play a VCD, although it might add or chop off some lines. So I'll spare everyone from having to read what it said on my "Help" screen, cross my fingers, and go ahead with ordering one of Chain of Fools.

OT: tgshaw...no wonder, with the scarcity of Kansas and Nebraska Tolkienites, I so often am aware of my own geekdom. Thank goodness for my JRRT loving family and this board! My daughter mentioned to a violin student's mom that I was at The Two Towers (didn't mention that it was the fifth time...), and was met with: "Oh. She likes Science Fiction?" (which, actually, I do like. Lots.)

Re large eyes: Perhaps in same article you mentioned (tho I don't think I saw Gear), interviewer noted that EW's eyes "really are that blue and that big." Some large eyes, like the young woman I mentioned above, Marty Feldman, Peter Lorre...can look "exothalmic" (help me, Goldenberry...I'm looking for that thyroid condition name...)

EW's eyes always, even in his casual pics or goofy kid photos, are expressive and in proportion to their setting. And, of course, size is greatly enhanced by the camera angles PJ uses, ie. shooting from slightly above, down into EW's face, with EW's chin tucked, so that brow and eyes are significantly closer to the camera and chin is foreshortened. (eg. Frodo looking up thru tree roots at Nazgul, Frodo saying "they're here".)

You're doing fine, Nota! Yep, "exophthalmos" is the curious condition (known informally as "bug-eyes":p) that occurs in hyperthyroidism. It's caused by swelling of the muscles and soft tissue behind the eye, actually pushing the eye forward. I have heard of people who had such advanced cases of it that they couldn't close their eyelids over their eyes any longer, which is very detrimental to preserving one's eyesight.:eek:

I've wondered--speaking of 'worried auntie syndrome'--whether Elijah was hyperthyroid, but I would hope he gets good medical care and had regular physical exams growing up. Also, the wide-eyes-look with the whites (OK, sclera for us medically inclined Faculty members:rolleyes: ) showing all around appears to be something he does when acting or mugging for the camera. People with real exophthalmos look that way all the time. Elijah simply has gorgeous prominent blue eyes. Whew!

Regarding a central US Faculty Moot: Vita and I both live in the Chicago area, so we certainly qualify as Midwesterners!

Goldenberry: Thanks for jumping in! I had wondered about thyroid stuff too, even if it might affect height...but also want to avoid "worried auntie" status and simply appreciate a lovely, balanced, slight, classic looking fine actor.

Chicago! Oyez Oyez...little dance...THAT'S midwestern, too! You and Vita! tg & nota & Bridget! It would be a lovely moot, even if only in one of those alternate threads of reality. If anyone wanted to celebrate in Kansas City????? I'd throw in my outstanding strategic planning abilities to facilitate.......

Fun is not just for the Welsh! Nor the Brits! We love Catatonia, Manic Street Preachers, Ioan Gruffudd, and Elijah Wood here, too!

I suggest you all have a meet in St. Louis this summer.:D

Whaddya mean, that's out of absolutely everybody's way? C'mon, how much more Midwestern can you get? Oh, fine...;)

In that case, I suppose a Chicago meet during the school year would work...

Whaddya mean, you're not planning this around my schedule? I'm the most important one, right? Even though I'm not even really a Faculty member? Right? Hey, put me down! I know the way out! Hey!!

:D

(((Faculty)))

Actually, I did want to stop by for more than just harassing you guys...:p I saw "North" a couple of weeks ago, when it was showing here. Well, "saw" isn't quite the word for it...My TV gets horrible reception on that channel so I couldn't actually see much.:rolleyes: So no insightful comments on EW's eye acting or anything...not that I'd probably have any anyway...He sounded great though!;) And I actually really liked the movie. I thought it was absolutely hilarious.:D

And I recently discovered that my school library has a copy of "The Ice Storm.":cool: V. much looking forward to that one! That'll make four non-LOTR EW movies for me...I'll catch up with you guys yet.:p :D Heck, I may even have something intelligent to say around here one of these days...:p

---and Chicago's not far from Indiana. "All" we'd have to do is find a way to get the Northeastern Branch (Chicago and Indiana) together with the Southwestern Branch (Omaha and Kansas City). Des Moines? The Amana Colonies? The Quad Cities? Dubuque? A short steamboat ride on the Mississippi with a Huck Finn theme? Or... Cedar Rapids! Maybe we could find out which hospital Elwood was born in and have a pilgrimage :D .

Edit: Bridget and I were simulposting :) . Actually, St. Louis might not be too bad, although maybe a bit south?? Guess I'd have to really look at a map--my eastern MO geography isn't as good as my western MO--but one of my co-workers has relatives in St. Louis and she goes there fairly often.

Sheryl, you want me to do a recap here when you are not even reading the Faculty these days?? :p Great to see you stopping by here, btw. :)

EE, I wish we could have talked more too. Glad you liked Chain of Fools. I love the film, it's so dark and hilarious. (Although in a way I feel bad, laughing so much at a number of people contemplating either murder or suicide or both......)
Let's just hope the "Goodbye, cruel world!" is *not* another Froshadowing.... :eek:

Yes, I'd have liked a Faculty Moot too, because it *would* be very nice to meet more of the people who post around here. (Wistful sigh.....) But...Chicago? I guess I'll have to be with you in my thoughts! I would warmly recommend any cross-thread or cross-Board moots that are arranged, though. LotR fans are great people. :)


Interesting about the possible eye conditions. I had never considered that those eyes of EJW's could partly be due to any medical condition :eek: , I just think they are extraordinary. As a matter of fact his use of the Eyes in acting (so that would be "eye acting"?) could be an interesting research project here. And a sub-project would *obviously* be his crying scenes. I have to think about just how to phrase such a project description in serious terms though, since the plain truth is that I just think he looks unbelievably amazing in the scenes where he cries or have tears in his eyes. So much emotion, so much - well, ....... :o
I mean, *other* people get red eyes and a red nose and a slightly contorted face, but *look* at this:

http://www.fellin2theblue.com/40.jpg


Probably time to stop now before I go off into complete gush-territory..........

Maeg--I can't even remember which board it was on (Imladris or CoE), but after FotR there was a thread actually titled, "Eye acting." And, amazingly, it wasn't just about Elijah.

--Of course, in that pic you posted the eyes don't do it all. Tolkien specified that Frodo had a cleft chin. Good call, methinks--it does something to the entire setup of the face somehow, especially when the mouth is turned down like that :( .

Tg, yes, I do remember the "Eye acting" thread. It wasn't just about everyones' eyes, either; - wasn't that were your nostril acting comments were posted? :cool: :)

I'd have liked to post more crying pics, but don't know exactly where to link to them..... The FotR riverbank scene is and remains one of my absolute, absolute favourites. :)

What about crying scenes in other films? - I have to think..........

(((((tg & Bridget & Goldenberry & Vita & all midwesterners)))))

I can understand that Kansas City may not be everyone's fave destination...sigh...it's a great place to live...

Chicago!!! St. Louis!!! CEDAR RAPIDS!!! What a hoot for a moot!

Hey, I'm in Springfield Illinois and Elevensies is in Indianapolis...I think we both qualify as Midwesterners.

Name a time and place...I am sure we could be there.
(Sorry Barb, I am making promises for you again!) :rolleyes:

Oh, and as for the hyperthyroidism, it is rampant in my family (three sisters, aunts, grandparents, etc.) and his eyes don't even vaguely resemble eyes affected by that disease...not even when it is in the very early stages. I don't think we need to worry about the man's health. He looks fine to me. Really fine. Darned fine...yup, he is a fine looking young man. :)

Speaking as the only Asian Faculty member (all other Asians please delurk now, please) I say the Faculty Moot should be held here. In Malaysia. Because like, when else are any of you ever going to come to Asia, right? This is the place to be, for adventure, for the exotic! This is where Frodo will do Sam, and the Ringbearer shall persevere while the Ring barrel goes its way. And your money's going to be cheap here, see. Then while you're all here, I'll get to feed you anchovies as anchovies oughta be eaten. We fry 'em, spice 'em up, grind 'em, mix 'em in our stew. Fried anchovies and peanuts with a plate of steamy sweet-smelling, fine-tasting rice. That's the life, my friends. Anchovies strewn on pizzas? :rolleyes: That's primitive stuff, I tells ya. You gotta come to the place where anchovies are treated with the right culinary respect. :D

Originally posted by Maeglian
And a sub-project would *obviously* be his crying scenes. I have to think about just how to phrase such a project description in serious terms though, since the plain truth is that I just think he looks unbelievably amazing in the scenes where he cries or have tears in his eyes. So much emotion, so much - well, ....... :o


Compare Elijah's crying with Liv Tyler's for example. Liv looks like what we would look like (albeit she has better make-up) if we're crying and pretending to be stoic, i.e. darned pathetic and that danged trembling lip business which could induce other people to smack you! Elijah's lips never tremble. I don't know how he does it. As mentioned, his eyes are always clear -- even way back in 'Radio Flyer' when he was crying excessive buckets of tears. And he's always clearly emoting *other* emotions while crying -- that Osgiliath bit, and remember 'Huck Finn'?

Btw, now that our pic resources are low, where is it safe to link pics from? Where do you get yours, Maeg?

These are the Helms Deep Decipher cards with Frodo:

http://www.decipher.com/lordoftherings/cardlists/helmsdeep/images/LOTR-EN05030.jpg http://www.decipher.com/lordoftherings/cardlists/helmsdeep/images/LOTR-EN05116.jpg
http://www.decipher.com/lordoftherings/cardlists/helmsdeep/images/LOTR-EN05023.jpg http://www.decipher.com/lordoftherings/cardlists/helmsdeep/images/LOTR-EN05038.jpg

I can't seem to take my eyes off Frodo's cloak in the 'Follow Smeagol' card. It's just so nice and cloak-y


I know it's still early for that part of the world, but what the hey. ;)

Happy Birthday, deluby!! :k

Happy Birthday Deluby!!!

For the record, wherever we're likely to have a Faculty Meet I will certainly try to come. Resources may be a bit short this year, but I will do my best. Shall I open a Faculty Meet thread? Are we serious about this? :)

Origianally quoted by Ainon:

'This is where Frodo will do Sam, and the Ringbearer shall persevere while the Ring barrel goes its way.'

LOL. How could the rest of us refuse an invitation like that?:)

Just a quick post. Maeglian was wondering about Elijah's crying in other films. Here are a couple of caps I did from 'The War,' DVD.

http://www.imagemagician.com/images/blossom/StuWar.JPG

http://www.imagemagician.com/images/blossom/StuWar2.JPG

Just one more thing - Whoo-hoo - Blossom gets to see The Two Towers (for only the second time) on Saturday!;) ;) ;)

Happy Birthday to Deluby, the gif-goddess!

Happy Birthday, Deluby!!


As for a Faculty Moot: I would loff to come!! Having lived near Cedar Rapids for a period of my life, I'm afraid that city wouldn't be my first choice of venue, but I'm open to the idea. Saint Louis wouldn't be bad--doesn't Sheryl live near there? (or am I misremembering, again :rolleyes: ).

[delurk]

Happy Birthday, Deluby!!!

:k :k :k

[lurk]

Happy birthday, Deluby!! :) :)


About the possibility of a Faculty moot; seriously: I would love to come to one. If it was held at vacation time, I'd even contemplate travelling to one whether it was in the US or in Asia (especially if I win the Lottery first; - one can always hope!). Ainon, your description of Malaysia's many benefits as a moot venue had me ROTFLMAO!
One thing I did realize at the London hoot, was that time is required. I just had one full day because of other RL commitments, and that was too little...... especially when you are shy like me and need time to get into things and loosen up. But, meeting and talking with fellow Frodocentrics, and actually watching TTT with them was *such* a treat. Sitting there in the cinema, knowing that those around me were watching for the *exact* same things and the exact same character *just* as intently as me......... :cool:


Blossom, thank you for the "War" caps. Thinking back on that film, and EJW's various films and characters, it's truly amazing how much trauma, fear, despair and grief he has already managed to convey so convincingly, heartwrenchingly and believably. He was simply *born* to play beautiful angst!

That makes it even stranger to me that "Ash Wednesday" sounds so completely un-angsty, from ainon's, Meryl Marie's and others' reviews. With the storyline of those sudden and violent murders and the following loneliness and excile, there *should* be so rich possibilities for anguish, soul-searching and grief for Sean.
I'd still like to see the film though. I haven't seen any information about when it will become available over here on video or DVD, though.


I suddenly remembered that tg's homepage has that special page called "It's my movie and I'll cry if I want to" about FotR. Lots of emotional tear-filled moments with all the fellowship members. The picture I wanted from the FotR riverbank scene is there, too, -but I can't manage to link to it. :( Oh well. In TTT, it's mainly left to Frodo (and Sam) to continue that tradition. Not that I'm complaining. Nobody does beautiful grief like EJW. And I actually think he's quite courageous in playing so *many* and continuous such scenes in the most important role of his career. True, those scenes represent serious acting challenges, and he manages to convey a wealth of emotions, strength and courage through the tears. But there *was* also the risk that he'd come across to the general public as a rather weak and wimpy character, and that could have reflected back on the actor to some extent. He did accept the role before geek heros became the order of the day, didn't he? Well, thank heavens that he did!! :)


Luthiea, great new sig!! :)

Originally posted by Maeglian
Sheryl, you want me to do a recap here when you are not even reading the Faculty these days??

My theory is that I'm going to get around to reading the thread eventually, so if it's posted here I'll see it.

Happy birthday, deluby!

I think EW has anime eyes, myself. Speaking of which, I've found a role I'd like to see him in - Ruroni Kenshin, the guy Maeg had as an avatar way back when. Bright blue eyes, red hair (okay, a wig would be necessary), short guy, totally romantic (IMHO), about the best swordsman going in a strange version of Japan of the 1800's (his lady friend runs a dojo and is the teacher there). I think EW could pull it off if we could just convince someone to do a live-action version. Sort of a Matrix feel to it, yeah...

Vita,
I'm in South Bend, Bridget's in Saint Louis. Unless I've gotten lost again.

I also notice Bridget is "Not here and not posting" about like I'm "not here and not posting."

Sheryl

and actually watching TTT with them was *such* a treat. Sitting there in the cinema, knowing that those around me were watching for the *exact* same things and the exact same character *just* as intently as me.........

(((((((Maeg)))))) It was great to meet you :) I enjoyed myself so much :) Hope I didn't spoil things too much pointing out Frodo's wobbly toes

I've found a role I'd like to see him in
While I'm here giving Maeglian a post hoot hug I'll just say I can imagine EW playing Kim. Rudyard Kipling describes him as a young man of singular beauty :)

OT, about a Hoot/Moot: It would be lovely to get together with you guys, whenever, wherever...I checked out the Marem Hoot thread, where the discussion mentioned Kansas City. I posted some quick research about KC sites and accomodations over there...Perhaps "the more Tolkienites the merrier...especially Frolijah fans...Here's the link to the Marem Hoot thread in case any of you guys want to jump in:

http://www.khazaddum.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=119886#post119886

OK, I've just seen "North" for the first time--caught it on cable here. I'm not sure what I would have thought of it if it hadn't been an Elijah Wood film, but I can actually remember when the film came out in 1994 because the reviews were so howlingly bad at the time. :eek:

I guess it wasn't THAT bad, lol--though it has lots of flaws. I found myself kind of caught up in it anyway, even though I missed the first half hour--and the last 5 minutes. And that brings me to my point--that is, my point other than saying it's absolutely true that Elijah Wood was the only good thing in it, and he was quite remarkable.:D

The thing is, does anyone want to PM me and let me know what the first half hour and the last five minutes were about?:p

I know the basic premise of the film and I'm only looking for a sentence or two of background. But I have a couple of questions (like what was the coin thing with the hole in it?) and don't want to "spoil" the story for anyone with the answers.

I tuned in while North was in Hawaii and I know why he left:rolleyes: . I had to leave just as Bruce Willis drove up to his house with him--they were n the white car, not the Fed Ex truck.

Thanks in advance to anybody who can help! I still like "The Ice Storm" the best of all his non-LOTR films.

Originally posted by ainon
Speaking as the only Asian Faculty member (all other Asians please delurk now, please) I say the Faculty Moot should be held here. In Malaysia. Because like, when else are any of you ever going to come to Asia, right? This is the place to be, for adventure, for the exotic! This is where Frodo will do Sam, and the Ringbearer shall persevere while the Ring barrel goes its way. And your money's going to be cheap here, see. Then while you're all here, I'll get to feed you anchovies as anchovies oughta be eaten. We fry 'em, spice 'em up, grind 'em, mix 'em in our stew. Fried anchovies and peanuts with a plate of steamy sweet-smelling, fine-tasting rice.

LOL ainon ;) Wonderful ad there. This fellow Asian is delurking to say hi to all Faculty memeber. ainon has asked me to drop by here for ages... :p

And yes, I must say that EW has the crying bits down pat. Gotta love the baby-blues :D

THANK YOU! Thank you, everyone, for the birthday wishes!! :k :k

I was gonna go see TTT tonight but boy friend bought the FOTR board game(not RISK) for my b-day, so end up spending 3 good hours playing that. And I won by 1 point at the end, woohoo! :p :D Just like the movie, the game has no real end either, need to wait till the TTT version comes out and add to it then continue on. Quite nice. :cool:


*Sigh*, the gifs, with imagemagician starts charging, I don't know if there will be any gifs from me. I think IM was the only free image hosting site that doesn't have limits on individual image size. :( All the other sites I looked before only allow about 250k-300k each picture. Anyway, I'll see what I can do.


Oh, and Ainon:Speaking as the only Asian Faculty member (all other Asians please delurk now, please)*Hands up* Here's one more. ;) I'm from China, but currently in USA. :)


Yikes, it's 2am already, *yawn* good night ladies! :k

Since I didn't make it here at all yesterday :( , here's a HAPPY REST OF THE YEAR for Deluby. Sounds like you found a great way to celebrate :) .

ainon--besides all the other wonders of your country, I hear you also have magnificant flocks of crebain there... ;) Afraid the airfare would be a bit beyond my budget, though...

Welcome, Nilmandra! Having "met" you in some of the other forums, it's great to see you here! :)

Originally posted by Maeglian
I suddenly remembered that tg's homepage has that special page called "It's my movie and I'll cry if I want to" about FotR. Lots of emotional tear-filled moments with all the fellowship members. The picture I wanted from the FotR riverbank scene is there, too, -but I can't manage to link to it. :( Oh well.
Yes, that's because of my lovely free website--nice that it's free, but there are drawbacks such as not being able to link to a specific image. The only thing it will let you do is link to a page, which is why I tend to make pages with screencaps instead of posting the screencaps in the thread (especially with IM on the way out :( , although even with IM one set of screencaps would make quite a dent in the available space). But I do think you can save a particular image from the page onto your hard drive. Edit: I just tried it on my work computer (which doesn't have any special connection to my website) and, yes, you can save an image from my website to your hard drive--for anyone who wants those 128 Weathertop caps :p . Anyway, here's the link for It's My Movie (http://members.tripod.com/afewwords_tgs/id111.htm). I put that page together before FotR was out on DVD, so they're all pics that were already available on the web. Of course, I do have sets of screencaps for the scene on the riverback and also post-Moria.

For more lovely angst, I should have Bumblebee on DVD soon, and Huck Finn by the end of February. :)

He did accept the role before geek heros became the order of the day, didn't he? Well, thank heavens that he did!! :)
Actually I think he could be credited with helping to make geek heroes the order of the day--between him and his neighbor from The Ice Storm, Tobey McGuire [not sure if I remember his name correctly anymore?]. Even before LotR, we had geek characters saving the world in The Faculty and (well, part of the world) in Deep Impact.

Yes, that was Tobey Maguire (aka Spider-Man) in "The Ice Storm.":p

So no one's going to satisfy my curiosity about "North?" Have not enough people seen it, maybe? I don't think it's going to be shown again here (I already missed a few broadcasts), that's why I was asking.

Oh well.

Happy Belated Birthday, deluby! And best wishes for the coming year.

ainon, your ode to anchovies is wonderful. I'd love to visit and have a taste test of anchovy delights. Someday!:)

Okay, Flourish, I just sent you a PM about the beginning and end of North (after I sent it, I went back and reread your earlier post and saw that you only wanted "one or two sentences." Ooops :o !) I'll warn you that I got a bit carried away because I really hate the ending!! So if someone here likes the ending, maybe they could send their view of it. Same thing if someone knows what the coin thing with the hole in it is about, 'cause I don't remember it. (Of course, I've got the video at home, but [ :( whine :( ] you wouldn't make me watch it again, would you?)

Flourish; - I'd be happy to satisfy your "North" curiosity, but it's a while since I saw the film so I simply can't remember all about it..... I'll have a go anyway and post what I can remember here, with spoiler warnings, so others with better memory than me can add, or rather correct, what I'm posting:

Quite faulty Spoilers for "North":
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*
*
*
At the intro of the film, North is the veritable prodigy child, top of his class, best in sports and in class and in every aspect. But his parents don't give him any attention at all, they only talk incessantly on about other strange stuff (His father is a far out pants salesman who takes great pride in endlessly gabbing about his job.... :rolleyes: ) Anyway their lack of attention causes North to have an extremely severe panic attack at the dinner table without his parents even noticing *that*! (A very funny scene due to EJW's great acting!). Afterwards he suddenly can't manage the things he used to be so good at - can't remember his lines in acting etc. (BTW, he acts Hamlet, so there actually is presendence for him doing *that* role..... ;) )

So he seeks out his favourite place for comfort, which turns out to be a chair in a furniture shop in a mall. There he meets with Bruce Willis (in a pink rabbit costume, I think :confused: :confused: ), and anyway, he decides to sue his parents for negligence and to be allowed to chose other parents for himself. He hires an ambulance-chasing attorney, and manages to win the case to immense media interest, causing both his parents to go completely catatonic. He then starts chosing new parents and decides upon a couple who own an enormous Ranch in Texas, and who wear outrageous cowboy clothes, makes him wear similar costumes (I actually think all the many, varied and colorful costumes EJW wears in North are the best thing about the whole film!), eat huge piles of food and watch big-time song and dance routines. But it turns out they had a kid who died, and mainly wants North to be his replica, and so he decided he has to leave them and find other parents.

I can't remember whether the eskimos came before or after the Hawaiians, but I hope thay came before, so you missed seeing them. The eskimo part was horrible, and I'll never know how wonderful actors like Graham Greene and Kathy Bates could do such terrible roles.

.
.
Now about the end of the film; there was this whole mess about him getting back to his parents before a specific time, and the clock is ticking down, and that annoying geek kid is trying to stop him. I remember him hurtling towards his parents in the furniture store just as time was running out, but I can't for the life of me remember whether he was too late. Anyway it turned out that it had all been a dream, he had fallen asleep in the chair at the mall, and when he returns home late at night his parents are happy because they had actually become distraught at his disappearance.

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End attempted spoilers for "North"


Sheryl, earlier on I actually searched for a Kenshin movie in some well-stocked film stores, but the swirly-eyed samurai is nowhere to be found. Nevertheless I think you are right about the EJW-acting potential there.
Strange though; the stores have lots of Neo Genesis Evangelion and Sailor Moon and other manga, but no Kenshin. I ended up buying Princess Mononoke instead.


Since it's weekend and it's allowed to be a little less than serious, I hope, I'd like to mention that over in the "Frodo's ugly fingers thread" in CoE there's a great follow-up to the geeks-as-film-heros discussion: Tobey M. as Frodo! ( Geeks united?! ):D

And there's also an alternative Aragorn that would totally freak out EE big time; - go watch that picture and shudder, I say!

I wish you all a nice weekend! :)


Edit: OK, so of course tg sent off her PM on North while I was typing away. I'll not remove my post, though. Anyone not wanting to know about North, just skip that part of the post! And anyone wanting to remind me of the actual ending, feel free to do so!

I think "North" is a wonderfully surreal film, and one of Lij's best performances.

My other favourite is "The Ice Storm".

Thank you TG and Maeglian!:D I appreciate it so much--being soccer mom on taxi duty kept me from seeing the whole film, but I feel better now.

I'm kind of sorry I missed 12-year-old Elijah doing "Hamlet" :eek: , but I don't think I'm much tempted to sit through the rest of the film just for that, even if it ever comes on again. Maybe he'll do the real thing one of these days, now that he's the proper age! I can wait......

Anyway, a big thank you once again!:D

I remember the coin thing and the ending of "North," so




SPOILERS for anyone who doesn't:





He gets the coin in Texas. Just before he leaves, someone (either the dad or Bruce Willis, can't remember which:o ) throws the coin up in the air, shoots a hole in it, and gives it to him for good luck.

And I'm pretty sure he does reach his parents at the end, just as the clock turns to 0. I think he wakes up just as he reaches them, too, doesn't he?

I wasn't a huge fan of the ending, either, but oh well. I guess they felt they had to end it that way, since the rest of the movie was so surreal. I didn't mind it too much.






End spoilers




Happy belated Birthday, Deluby!!!:) Glad it was fun!:)

I have been remiss as a Faculty member lately, not out of lack of desire to contribute, but purely because of a super-busy RL. I tried to sell my RL in the Harem recently, but there were no takers, so apparently I'm stuck with it. :(

But I had to stop by long enough to say Happy Birthday to Deluby!!! (It's still your birthday here!) I have many of your beautiful gifs on my hard-drive, and when time is short they offer small instantaneous moments of delight. Thank you! :) :)

To deluby :k and Nil (well, it's about time you showed your face here! ;) ) and other Chinese lurkers out there ...

HAPPY NEW YEAR!

and to make that on-topic, did you guys know that Elijah was born in the Year of the Rooster? Well there. Now you know. :D

{{{{Faculty}}}}

Happy New Year to you ainon and Deluby and any lurkers :D (I'm not Chinese but I have a Chinese friend and she's gone away to celebrate New Year in Hong Kong for two weeks! Lucky so-and-so! :D )

{{{Narya}}} Hugs to you.


It was funny, I was looking through our local paper that comes out every week here, and I was looking at the family announcements section and under the Births bit there was a baby called Elijah! And his surname wasn't Wood (that would've been too weird) but it begins with a W. Funny eh? :D I wonder if his mum's a fan? So there's an Elijah in my district somewhere now... A Scottish Elijah ;) Now what was my previous thinking that Elijah was too unusual a name to be bestowed upon a Scot? I may retract that in the future... :D

A Faculty Meet sounds great to me, wherever it is if I can afford it and get the time off I will come! ainon - there was a feature on Kuala Lumpar on one of our TV Holiday programmes, and it looks gorgeous!

Maeg - glad you like my siggy, it was about time I got one!

Flourish, I couldn't remember the ending of North well enough to clarify it for you, but I knew our learned colleagues would know! :) For you and any other US Faculty members interested, North is scheduled to be broadcast several times in February on The Movie Channel, beginning Feb 3. So check your local listings. (I don't get that channel...500 **** channels, and not the one I want...) I really *liked* North, 'cause I think EW is a fabulous comic actor.

Oh, and you notice they are beginning these broadcasts on the same day EW is scheduled to appear on an E! tv program? Synchronicity? Nope, commerce.

Happy New Year to those celebrating in Asia!

And Happy Groundhog Day to anyone hoping this cold winter will end someday!

Thank you for that info, Bridget and Vita! How funny--perhaps I'll be able to see the "Hamlet" bit after all!:p

Originally posted by Maeglian
Sheryl, earlier on I actually searched for a Kenshin movie in some well-stocked film stores, but the swirly-eyed samurai is nowhere to be found. Nevertheless I think you are right about the EJW-acting potential there.
Well, seeing this idea mentioned again, I just had to put "anime Frodo" back up for the remainder of the weekend (the first time I've reused an avatar!). Since it does come by way of messing with an actual pic from the movie, it might give something of an idea of what Elijah could really look like in anime form. :p

And that avatar will probably stay there for most--if not all--of the weekend. I've been trying to get any February additions made to my website, and then have some paperwork that absolutely has to be done. If I get it finished I can allow myself to go to the movie tomorrow--if not, I'll have to be a good parent and make myself stay home and get it finished :( . Some of the paperwork can be done in front of a screen, though--I had a nice surprise today when the Bumblebee DVD arrived sooner than I expected--my first non-LotR Elwood DVD! [BTW, Lutheia, speaking of names--when I'm working on reference citations at the office, there's a Dr. Elwood who pops up occasionally as an author. And would you believe he publishes in a New Zealand medical journal? :p ]

Getting back to the DVD, I'm a little nervous because it was rattling around lose in the case when it was delivered, so I hope it made it here okay. It's not a widescreen version--but I'm not sure if the movie ever actually played in theaters, anyway :confused: . By the end of February (keeping fingers crossed) I should also have Huck Finn, The Ice Storm and Ash Wednesday. If I have the time, I'm looking at giving Elijah his own section on my website when I make the March updates--now, everything about him is in the Tolkien section, which made a lot of sense 18 months ago... ;) :)

I've had the TV off the last couple of days, and didn't know about the space shuttle accident until I came online just a bit ago--I don't think it's quite sunk in yet. That would probably have kept me from being coherent "on the boards," anyway, so it's probably just as well that I have other things I have to do.

Happy New Year, and Happy Groundhog's Day, Candlemas, and Feast of the Presentation, to any and all who celebrate them (as well as any festivities I'm not thinking--or aware--of) :) .

Thanks again for the birthday wishes! :k
And Happy New Year to Ainon and Nilmandra! :)

ainon wrote:
did you guys know that Elijah was born in the Year of the Rooster? Actually he was born in the Year of the Monkey. I was born 4 days before the Year of Rooster began(monkey is the year before rooster), and he's 2 days older than me so that would make him a monkey too. :D (Isn't one of his nicknames "monkey"? :p) *Sigh* We are those poor souls that turned 1 year old just several days after we were born. :o I just realized this morning that only 3 days after I celebrated my 22nd b-day, i'm now 23 by chinese reckoning. :eek: I wonder if we age faster as well. :rolleyes: :p


RE: North, I loved it, a funny little film, loved all those costume changes.
This one had me spilt coke on my carpet:

***Spoiler***




http://62.146.60.115:8077/./data/media/16/aag.jpg

I was surprised that he looked so good and....I don't know....natural?...in that traditional costume. I showed the picture to my other friends and they all agreed with me. God I wish we had an Emperor like that. :cool: :p

--edit--
From TORN:
Elijah Wood Jumps Off his Pedestal.... (http://www.theonering.net/perl/newsview/2/1044171074)
Tehanu @ 2:31 am EST
Tanya sent us this transcript of a radio interview from a local NZ radio station ...AGES ago.... blame me [Tehanu] for losing the info about WHICH radio station. Here, Elijah Wood definitely gets down off any pedestal you want to put him on.....:D
Don't know if you all have heard that interview already, I think I downloaded it somewhere about 2 weeks ago. I'll try to find the link just in case someone missed it.

Aha, found it. GO ME! :D
http://www.theedge.co.nz/mp3/10/ElijahWoodInterview.mp3

Thanks, deluby! That was hilarious! This bit: E: "Chew for a bit and then spit, yeah, yeah." --- okay, I never *knew* what nailbiters really do. Now I know. He's right. I probably didn't need to hear that! :D

The tale he has to tell about the Oscars is great too, considering what we now know about his ability to sleep anywhere anytime. :)

Originally posted by deluby
I just realized this morning that only 3 days after I celebrated my 22nd b-day, i'm now 23 by chinese reckoning. :eek: I wonder if we age faster as well. :rolleyes: :p

Same here, but for me that reckoning will be in terms of Muslim calendar years which slip by two weeks, every year. I'm not Chinese, btw, but I'm a Tiger. I have friends born the same year who're Bulls (now, the rest of you - no laughing!) so I should have realised that EW, being a January person, might have been born before the year change. Monkey seems better though, doesn't it? :p :D

edit
I was supposed to go right to bed but ended up wandering around some, and picked these up. I'd always wanted to compare Alan Lee's original work and what PJ and EW have done in bringing the art to life.

http://img-fan.theonering.net/middleearthtours/images/frodo_ald.jpg
http://www.classicxf.com/images/TTT/smeagol/notalone094.jpg

http://img-fan.theonering.net/middleearthtours/images/morannon_als.jpg
http://www.classicxf.com/images/TTT/blackgate/012blackgate.jpg

http://img-fan.theonering.net/middleearthtours/images/frodoandsam_ald.jpg
http://www.classicxf.com/images/TTT/blackgate/013blackgate.jpg
http://www.classicxf.com/images/TTT/blackgate/125blackgate.jpg

You are a Tiger, ainon? Sounds really impressive! :cool:
Deluby, what a sweet picture from "North"!


Great comparisons there with the Alan Lee drawings. I've always noted how horribly emaciated and worn out Frodo looks in Lee's drawing of the Black Gate. Film Frodo doesn't look half as careworn (yet) ; - but then noone, not even Alan Lee, could possibly have foreseen what Elijah Wood would bring to that role, and how amazingly wonderful he would make Frodo look. Just *look* at that last picture posted by ainon! :)
Other paintings of Lee's are closer to the film, for instance one of Gimli, Legolas and Aragorn in Fangorn, not to mention the above "taming of Smeagol". Obviously *some* spoilery rumours are true, because there can be little doubt seeing the film still that the Lee painting was in fact used to set that scene up, as reported in rumours. And it really works! (In addition to the fact that it proves that Frodo is in fact ambidextrous (sp?), a point also discussed in the Harem lately.... :o )


Anyway, concerning spoilers, I really hope the recent RotK preview-to-be spoiler over at Torn is *not* correct. They are siting sources claiming that the preview will have only one Frodo and Sam scene, but that one scene will be Frodo claiming the Ring at the CoD. Oh no!! I *hope* they don't spoil EJW's big acting moment like that before the film comes out! I don't want to see that scene out of context! I wouldn't believe this at all if it wasn't for the fact that they did show this very scene back in Cannes in 2001. Yet, that would spoil every chance they have of keeping secret to the general audience whether Frodo lives through the film, so I really can't believe they will show this in an early preview. Also, the dialogue according to the possible spoiler seems suspiciously like an exact echo of Elrond and Isildur......


About the radio interview, I couldn't help snickering at the following. Perhaps I should rather post this in the Hugs Haven, but the posters *here* are all female too, so maybe - just maybe-we can somewhat relate to the woman present at the interview, here:

Elijah: Yes..... Do you wanna sit down sweetheart?
Woman: No, I just wanna lean in.
E: Oh okay, are you sure you want to lean? It's kind of uncomfortable.
W: No, no I'm fine.

:D

E: Oh okay, are you sure you want to lean? It's kind of uncomfortable.
W: No, no I'm fine.

LOL! He was being quite a considerate gentleman, but it does sound funny out of context.. I wonder what listeners who had just tuned in must have thought!

I have a sinking feeling that we will indeed be seeing Frodo's claiming-the-ring moment, either during the teaser coming soon, or in the trailers/tv spots coming later. I think the rationale will be that it will whet the curiosity of the casual moviegoer, who is probably a more critical target for the ads than the diehard Tolkien lovers and already-confirmed fans of the movie, who will go to see ROTK no matter what. Another possible reason: the trailers and ads are created by some production company that specializes in that stuff, not by New Line/PJ, so they're just objectively showcasing the most intruiging or exciting moments.

More lovely gifts for y'all. I trust no one minds... ;)

http://image1ex.villagephotos.com/1504423.jpg http://image1ex.villagephotos.com/1504424.jpg

Taken just after he turned 18, I believe.

Aw, those pics are cute, Bunnie. :) I think he really looks good in dark, muted colors like that. Something about the angle of that second pic, though, makes him look even younger than 18.

ainon, thanks for those comparisons. I hadn't heard any rumours of this but I had often wondered if perhaps that scene was purposely shot that way (Frodo holding Sting with left hand) simply to pay homage to Alan's illustration. That whole sequence looks almost exactly like the illustration. Very cool. :cool:

Oops! I must have left my brain behind me somewhere. I thought I posted those pictures on the Hugs thread! :eek:

Shall I move them over there, or would you like me to leave them here? (Like anyone who saw them would ask me to take them away... :rolleyes: ) If it didn't suck up so much bandwidth, I'd just post them both places.

Maybe I'll just go tell Hobmom that they're here... ;)

I'm getting a sudden urge to rent 'North' again. Wonder why? :confused: ;)

Reminder: Tonight at 10 pm Eastern Time in the U.S., E! TV is showing its 'Rank: Young Hollywood' special. Elijah reportedly will be among those commenting on this vital topic.

Disclaimers: Don't blame me if he gets all of 15 seconds of screen time. Check your local listings for show time in your area.

BunnieBugs, we know you posted those pics just so that we could discuss how his face has matured in the past 4 years. Very thoughtful of you!:p

My favourite Elijah movie pre-LOTR remains 'The War'. Fast forward past Kevin Costner's annoyingly preachy ex-vet dad and just enjoy the children, because they are all superb, especially the little girl who played Elvadine (love her!!!), Lexi Randall, who played Elijah's sister in the film, and Lij himself as Stu. He gives a stand-out performance. :) What a feisty little bugger. :) He is such a natural, unforced actor. :) I simply love his performance in this and find Stu a tremendously empathetic character. :)

'North' is enjoyable simply because Elijah is in it and is extremely fetching. I also find North's parents quite funny. Otherwise, the humour in the film is rather clunky and the racial stereotypes a bit shocking and unamusing. :eek: Worth watching for the adorable 12 year old Lij though. :)

(((Maeglian)))

(((Eagles' Eyrie)))

It was too cool meeting you lovely ladies at the Brit Hoot! :) What larks! :D

Check out the Frodoll pics in the Frodoll thread!

Originally posted by Wild Goose
I have a sinking feeling that we will indeed be seeing Frodo's claiming-the-ring moment, either during the teaser coming soon, or in the trailers/tv spots coming later. I think the rationale will be that it will whet the curiosity of the casual moviegoer, who is probably a more critical target for the ads than the diehard Tolkien lovers and already-confirmed fans of the movie, who will go to see ROTK no matter what. Another possible reason: the trailers and ads are created by some production company that specializes in that stuff, not by New Line/PJ, so they're just objectively showcasing the most intruiging or exciting moments.

I can't believe I'm saying this but if that's the case, then I do NOT want to see this preview. It's not the ring-claiming that bothers me, it's that I just do NOT want to know what Frodo will look like by the time they reach Mt. Doom. I don't want to go through that journey until I'm sitting there in the theater, December 2003.

Now, the trailers and ads may be made by a production company, but the preview, I thought, was pure PJ. Last year's TTT preview was, in PJ's words, "a gift to the fans," so I thought that meant he had creative control?

A little OT, but frankly I think some of these marketers are busy crunching numbers and putting their MBA diplomas up on the walls instead of really getting into the mind of the viewing public. Yesterday I saw a teaser trailer for "Pirates of the Caribbean" that had not ONE glimpse of Orlando Bloom. Don't they realize that girls will be packing the theaters to see this thing strictly because "Orli" is in it??

Bunnie...that second pic looks like Happy Party Fro!

All those 'girls' who will be seeing 'Pirates' raise their hands. Consider my hand raised. Oh and Johnny Depp is in it too! I saw that Orli-free trailer too. How dumb are these people?

Sorry Lij..we DO view other guys films sometimes.;)

Aww..He was soo cute in those older pics.

Originally posted by Maeglian
Also, the dialogue according to the possible spoiler seems suspiciously like an exact echo of Elrond and Isildur......
Since the very first time I saw that Elrond-Isildur scene, I've been expecting CoD to echo it--or, I guess I should say, that the E-I scene was a set-up for CoD. ---- I do like the physical arrangement of the place in the E-I scene. The whole place looks dangerous enough that it wouldn't be hard to make the whole struggle including Gollum's last step very credible.

---------------

Well, the Bumblebee CD came through the trip just fine :) . I was surprised at how much clearer I could see the movie than I could on the VHS--maybe just a factor of being closer to the screen, but it made a big difference in catching some subtle emotions from several of the actors--not just Elijah.

I watched it straight through once and almost straight through a second time, hoping for some good Froshadowings. But there really wasn't much along those lines. I think it's a sign of good acting that it almost seemed as if there was a different actor there, with completely different stance, body movement, expressions, and speech (more than just the accent). There was maybe a moment here or there that I could connect with Frodo, but it was almost like I was trying too hard to find them. I did see once that almost invisible eyebrow knitting that Frodo uses when hiding from the SB's (but, as with that one, it's hard to catch on screencaps). Although both Barney and Frodo have a lot going on inside them, even that characteristic comes across differently to me. With Barney, I get the sense of emotions being purposely held inside, while IMHO Frodo comes across as someone who's just more naturally "interior." When their emotions do come out, Barney handles his much more rigidly. I can't even imagine Barney in that crying scene by the river. IMHO, that just says good things about the actor.

So, I don't really have any Froshadowings to share, but here's a screencap, anyway--a shot I don't think I've seen posted before, and one of Barney's softer moments:

http://www.imagemagician.com/images/tgshaw/Previous movies/cap1954-half.jpg

Tgshaw- That is one of the clearest most beautiful Barney caps I've ever seen and I've seen them all I think! More!!!!!!!!!

American Faculty members -- so what was 'Rank: Young Hollywood' all about? I wandered over to the site that shall not be named and saw quite a few screencaps from the show. He must have gotten more than 15 seconds of screentime then? ;)

Bunnie, I can't see your pics. :(

Originally posted by tgshaw
Since the very first time I saw that Elrond-Isildur scene, I've been expecting CoD to echo it--or, I guess I should say, that the E-I scene was a set-up for CoD. ---- I do like the physical arrangement of the place in the E-I scene. The whole place looks dangerous enough that it wouldn't be hard to make the whole struggle including Gollum's last step very credible.

Yeah, that's what I thought too. I think that is the hardest part when it comes to the ending, to make sure that Gollum's fall doesn't come off as being too, well, tacky. Too many films have done the 'baddie falls into abyss' thing before.

While I'm not putting much faith in the preview spoiler report, I wouldn't mind seeing a glimpse of CoD pre-digital grading, or hearing the lines that folks at Cannes had had the chance to hear (I hope those folks appreciated that honour!). IMO it's a big spoiler only if the uninitiated know where Frodo's standing, and why he's saying it. Although I wouldn't be surprised if book readers won't then proceed to give the real ending away by grumbling that that scene shouldn't have been shown. :D

Thanks, tg, for the Bumblebee review and for the comparison between Barney and Frodo. The differences between them never occurred to me before. Btw, I don't suppose the DVD has any special features or bonus material? That's the only way I could ever justify spending money on a legit DVD ... seeing how nice Elijah looks, unfortunately, is not enough to justify the cost :p

Nothing directly to do with current discussion, but here's a much younger Elijah at another riverbed, mourning for a friend.

http://maggiebear.crosswinds.net/misc85/misc848.jpg

(Grumbles)
I am too little in the know about sites that shall not be named, apparently. I wandered over to the most likely one and found nothing there.... :(


About the Ring-claiming moment: I don't want it in trailers or previews because *I* don't want to see it before I'm actually in the cinema watching RotK. I'm totally in agreement with Eldalieva in this. However, since I can't expect NL or PJ to keep that moment out of previews just to please *me*, nice as that would be, I'll continue to hold out hope that they'll consider it too much of a spoiler for the general public and so won't include it for *that* reason. (Crosses fingers)

I'm already having this whole "to-spoil-or-not-to-spoil" debate with myself. I would like to go into RotK and be overwhelmed and amazed and turn to sappy goo, without knowing all that happens and exactly how it looks when it happens, but I don't think I have the willpower to stay away from spoilers. :( So if Ring-claming moments and Choices and Grey Havens and "Where there's a whip there's a way" and Shagrat and Gorbag and the state of (un)dress at CU and what have you turn up to be seen on the net or in the cinema before the film itself, I'll probably watch it and berate myself soundly for doing so afterwards.....

Yes, I have seen the I/E scene at CoD as a perfect set-up for the next time around too. My prediction still is that with that narrow ledge, Frodo'll go over it and be saved by Sam (replica of the underwater hand-clasping in FotR, probably with the hand that's missing a finger :eek: ). Then again, I was *so* sure we'd get the swoon at HA based on things that had happened in FotR, and all we got was some Ring-induced eye-rolling and mild hysteria. So never mind me! I'm very likely completely wrong as always.

Uhm..... to get back on topic.........
Yes, of course: Bumblebee! I've gone to extreme investigative lengths to get hold of that film in a format my DVD or Video will play in good quality. It's just nowhere to be found. Am therefore extremely jealous of you, tg!!


(((((((Pearl))))))))
I've seen all the Frodoll and Hoot piccies and miss all the wonderful hooters very much!!! :) :)


I've been wondering about Prim and Viola.... If you two are reading this, I hope you're doing OK. I worry over your mum.

Originally posted by ainon
Bunnie, I can't see your pics. :(

Still? I know my bandwidth really got sucked down fast, yesterday; in fact, it was maxed out by about 1 pm my time (I think that gave them about 5 hours of viewing time)! But they are back and visible now, so you should be able to go back and see them. To save one bandwidth, I even uploaded new versions that aren't such big files, so I hope they stick around longer today. ;)

Lovely riverbank cap, by the way. Isn't it interesting how he looks the same, but not? :p Still beautiful as ever, though.

Originally posted by ainon
American Faculty members -- so what was 'Rank: Young Hollywood' all about? I wandered over to the site that shall not be named and saw quite a few screencaps from the show. He must have gotten more than 15 seconds of screentime then? ;)


Yes, ainon, he got about a whole minute! He was actually one of the "Rank-ees", coming in at #9 out of 25 "hot young stars under 25". The list included both actors and musicians. Justin Timberlake was their #1 rising star.:rolleyes: :confused: Elijah was their third-from-the-top male actor, with Jake Gyllenhal (sp?) ranked #3 overall and Heath Ledger coming in around #7, IIRC. I think the only other male actors on the list were #24 Josh Hartnett (gag mutter mutter cigarette-pushing idiot) and :eek: :confused: :rolleyes: Hayden Christiansen.

My favorite moments were when Michelle Branch (a talented young Canadian singer-songwriter who has been compared to a young Joni Mitchell) confessed she had had a crush on Lij, and Sean Astin saying Lij "is a thousand year old soul who happens to inhabit a 21 year old's body". :) :) :) There was also footage of a young Elijah on a set (Huck Finn, maybe?) mugging for the camera. I think the only person from Lij's past work they interviewed was Rita Wilson, who said she worked with him on 'North' and he was 'great'.

Apart from that one minute of Elwood, the entire hour was a waste, although it did provide some insight into the inanity of E! TV.

I would like to go into RotK and be overwhelmed and amazed and turn to sappy goo, without knowing all that happens and exactly how it looks when it happens, but I don't think I have the willpower to stay away from spoilers. :(

Oh you are so right, Maeglian!!

I think, though, that there isn't much in Frodo's remaining story that *wouldn't* be a great big spoiler for ROTK, and I for one will be very annoyed if we don't get to see *anything* of Elijah Wood and Sam Astin in the trailer(s)!!:eek: Who can wait til next December to see them together on screen again??

Er, is someone going to *name* the site that shall not be named?:confused:

I am really going to try and stay as spoiler free as possible for RotK and now that I hear that the CoD scene might be in the teaser, then I really think I would rather not see the teaser at all. I agree with Maeg, Elda etc on that score. Now, whether when it comes down to it I really will be able to stay away is another matter entirely!

And there's also an alternative Aragorn that would totally freak out EE big time; - go watch that picture and shudder, I say!

Noooooooo!!!!!! Freek me out is right! Thanks for the warning Maeg! :D

Seeing that picture from Huck Finn that ainon posted reminds me of something. Now that Elijah is getting older it's becoming harder and harder for me to reconcile that that's the same guy that we know and love today. It's almost like they're two completely different people. I mean - imagine that cute innocent looking face cursing and peeing in a fountain and biting his nails and smoking. Never :)

Hugs to Maeg and Pearl. Did you get the pictures I sent around? Pearl I think yours got bounced back so if you didn't receive them just let me know. There's some very nice ones there of the hoot. Is there any way to PM photos? I've looked and as far as I can see you can only PM if they're on a website, but is there any way to do it for photos on your hard drive? Anybody?

Hope we get to see the Young Hollywood piece, even if it was only short. Goldie - was it a modern interview that they showed, or one from a while back?

Originally posted by Eagles' Eyrie
Hope we get to see the Young Hollywood piece, even if it was only short. Goldie - was it a modern interview that they showed, or one from a while back? Elve has the footage up on her site here (http://frodoandsam.net/film/multimedia/video.html) . (I hope she doesn't mind me posting that here! :o ) Just remember to right-click-save in order to conserve her bandwidth.

It's wa-a-ay too short, but there are some cute bits, not the least of which is the part where Dominic Monaghan gives his opinion on our boy. Too sweet. And for Dom fans like myself, the 10 seconds or so that he had during the credits were priceless! Elve hasn't got that bit yet, but has promised to add it after the show re-airs Wednesday nite. :cool:


Edit: I just found out that it's MsUnderhill's birthday! I don't know if she'll see it or not, but...
Happy Birthday, MsU! Hope it's lovely!

Happy birthday, MsU!!

Thank you so much Elve, for the clip, and Bunnie, for the heads-up. :)
Didn't Sean Astin look *especially* good there? *And* he's just directed an "Angel" episode, and about the return of Angelus, too! I used to really love that show (and Buffy) some years back......... I'd have liked to see that episode.

EE, I got all the photos. Thank you and hugs!!! :)
I actually think it's fine that the photos get E-mailed. And wouldn't PM'ing them eat up Moggy's bandwith?
Imagine that cute innocent looking face cursing and peeing in a fountain and biting his nails and smoking. I guess when you realize that you're imagining all of this happening simultaneously, is when you know you've had enough internet time for one day? :rolleyes: :D

Originally posted by Goldenberry
Yes, ainon, he got about a whole minute! He was actually one of the "Rank-ees", coming in at #9 out of 25 "hot young stars under 25". The list included both actors and musicians. Justin Timberlake was their #1 rising star.:rolleyes: :confused: Elijah was their third-from-the-top male actor, with Jake Gyllenhal (sp?) ranked #3 overall and Heath Ledger coming in around #7, IIRC. I think the only other male actors on the list were #24 Josh Hartnett (gag mutter mutter cigarette-pushing idiot) and :eek: :confused: :rolleyes: Hayden Christiansen.

......Apart from that one minute of Elwood, the entire hour was a waste, although it did provide some insight into the inanity of E! TV.
Not quite as inane as People, whose similar list published a few months ago had Josh Hartnett at #1 and completely ignored Elijah-- I'm not sure if the proper sentiment is :mad: or :confused: ...

----Y'know, he's not always so innocent in Huck Finn--I can imagine that character engaging in all four of the activities EE listed (except that he doesn't seem like the nail-biting type)--but I think even Huck would have a hard time pulling off all four at once :eek: !

And, ainon, I'm afraid there's not much extra material on the Bumblebee DVD: a trailer, and "selected" filmographies of the three main actors. I did think it was interesting--especially since I'd bought a used copy--that Elijah's filmography included even RotK.

Next DVD in the mail should be Huck Finn. On that one, I'm looking forward to hearing the director's comments--and maybe getting a few non-innocent screencaps ;) .


And a very happy birthday to MsU!

Originally posted by tgshaw
--And that's everyone I know of. If there's anyone else here (posting or lurking) who's around this part of the country, let us know!!
While I’m not terribly close to central US, I am in central PA… about 3 hours from Pittsburgh and I would be very much up for a Faculty Meet… now, wasn’t there talk about inviting our boy for intellectual discussions? How WOULD a 22 year old feel about that? I think he’d be flattered but probably flabbergasted that so many women are so interested in him but don’t want to take him to bed!

Originally posted by Notabluemaia
Fun is not just for the Welsh! Nor the Brits! We love Catatonia, Manic Street Preachers, Ioan Gruffudd, and Elijah Wood here, too!
OME… can I swoon for Ioan here?!? HE HE HE… yes, I have to say I DO appreciate the Welsh… and he’s one of the finest things Welsh I have seen in many years.

Originally posted by ainon
I say the Faculty Moot should be held here. In Malaysia. Because like, when else are any of you ever going to come to Asia, right? This is the place to be, for adventure, for the exotic! This is where Frodo will do Sam, and the Ringbearer shall persevere while the Ring barrel goes its way.
Well! Now that you put it that way, of course! ;)

SHERYL!!! YOU’RE BACK!!!!!
Ariel attempts a body tackle, but Sheryl has slipped away into the aether again…
Good to see you around! Are you settled with the RL stuff for the time being? It has been very quiet without you around!

And because I missed them here… Happy birthday, Elijah, MsU and Deluby. See? You ladies are in good company! Sorry about the image magician site, deluby – but could you consider getting some webspace off your ISP? Lots of them are out there and it doesn’t take too much to get a site started. I got the harem site up and I really know nothing about this stuff.

Congrats on the Bumblebee DVD, tg - I have one as well and it is well worth it. I also have space on my server to host pictures (I think the .mov files were a bit too much drain) and I have DVDs for The War, Ice Storm, The Faculty, Huck Finn, and of course, THE movies. If you need anything that you haven't got yet from this collection, just ask... though at this rate, I'll be asking you for stills soon!

And going back to the discussion of the use of tears in Elijah's eye acting...
http://www.frodosharem.org/Pics/Beautyatthemirror.jpg

Just the beginnings of tears and it is so touching!

OK... some of you may know what has kept me away from this thread for so long - my archive has had some fits and I needed to get it fixed, but I have been reading when I can. You guys always have something interesting to say. The other thing that some of you may be interested in is I have a new fic on the archive - it's called 'Fear' and it's another long, involved, many charactered opus that features much Fro angst (with the title Angst Maven, what do you expect?). If you have liked my angst in the past and are interested in that sort of thing, please check it out on ff.net or on the harem archive.

Well, now I must to bed.

Goodnight all!

Ariel

from Maeglian
I've been wondering about Prim and Viola.... If you two are reading this, I hope you're doing OK. I worry over your mum.

You guessed rightly Maeglian. We have been absent as Mum died about 2 weeks ago. The change from being ill to actually dying was rapid and we are both a bit stunned and still absorbing the absence of a much loved mother. A very loved mother. Very.

I've been reluctant to derail the thread and also it's just been really hard to actually say this in print. Sorry.


I have lurked here on and off. So I am listening to you! :) I have begun a new job and that is exhausting too but assure you I am enjoying your comments and the Elwood pics and I am indeed paying attention. Just aint got nothing to say at the moment.

Prim and Viola

{{{{{Prim and Viola}}}}}

I'm so, so sorry. Words just aren't good enough.

Wishing you strength and peace.

So sorry to hear about that Prim and Viola and Azalea. My deepest symathies

Take care and hugs to all of you.

I'm so very, very sorry to hear about your mum, Prim, Viola and Azalea. :k and hugs to you all. I know how you feel!

Love xxx

I was going to comment on TTT after my long-awaited second viewing last Saturday, but now I think I'll leave that for another time.

Oh, Prim and Viola - I am so very sorry. I hope you feel comfortable enough with us to feel you can derail the thread for such as this. We may be online, but I consider you friends. I have you both in my thoughts.


(((((((((((((((((Prim))))))))))))))))))
((((((((((((((((((Viola))))))))))))))))))))))

Ariel

((((((((((Viola))))))))) (((((((((((Prim))))))))))))))) ((((((((((Azalea))))))


I am so sorry. I know there are no words that can ease the pain you feel. I am glad you have each other.

I always understood that you were very close to your Mum, and that is a blessing, though it makes losing her extra hard. My thoughts and prayers are with you.

((((((((Prim, Viola and Azalea)))))))))

I am deeply sorry for your loss. :(

Please don't ever worry about derailing the thread! Just like Ariel also says, I think of you and all posters here as my friends, even if we haven't met.

I will keep you in my thoughts.

Huge hugs and much love to Prim, Viola and Azalea. We are sending positive thoughts your way.

Bunnie, thanks for posting the link to the clip... meant to do that yesterday but didn't have a chance to stop by.

Aw, Prim, I'm so sorry to hear that. :(

(((((Prim)))))
(((((Viola)))))
(((((Azalea)))))

{{{{Prim, Viola, Azalea}}}} I'd been thinking about you guys too. I'm so, so sorry. My deepest sympathies, and my thoughts and prayers are with you.

I hope this doesn't sound trivial - but if you feel any need for distraction from RL for a while, then maybe that's the least we can do here in cyberspace. No distracting discussion is beyond any of us, I'm sure, and no pic is untraceable. I really wish we were all close enough to offer more support ....




---------------



I'm more than a little late, but Happy Birthday, MsUnderhill!


----------------


Bunnie, yes, I can see the pics now. Thank you! He wasn't too bad looking at that age, was he? I wouldn't have minded knowing him if I was a teenager then ... ;)

And thanks Bunnie and Elve for the clip.

Ariel - that pic! It's one of my favourites, and of course that's the difficult One Tear that EW simply couldn't cry, and all the while Cate Blanchett's standing in front of him. I just love the way EW tells that story. :D Oh, and thanks for the heads-up about the new Frodoangst fest by Ariel! <rubbing hands together in glee. I mean ... anticipation. to read, I mean.> Ariel, please, do you have a direct link? :)


Maeglian:
I'm already having this whole "to-spoil-or-not-to-spoil" debate with myself. I would like to go into RotK and be overwhelmed and amazed and turn to sappy goo, without knowing all that happens and exactly how it looks when it happens, but I don't think I have the willpower to stay away from spoilers. :(

I've seen the RotK calendar pics. More specifically, *the* pic. That decided things for me. If I don't see another Frodo pic till December I am gonna spontaneously combust from spoiler-deprivation. :D

Then again, I was *so* sure we'd get the swoon at HA based on things that had happened in FotR, and all we got was some Ring-induced eye-rolling and mild hysteria.

:eek: I'm committing blasphemy here, I know, but with PJ & co upping the stakes I love that angst in HA more than the swooning. Not that I thought that was possible at first, but man, I do. Each time I see it I'm appreciating more and more what Frodo does to break the Ringspell, and the price he has to pay afterward. And I don't know why, but the fact that he's out of focus heightens the angst somehow. He's clearly sapped of his strength, and despite it all, Faramir's taking him and the Ring to Gondor, and there's really absolutely nothing he can do about that. I think it's just incredibly impressive that Elijah's doing all that emoting ... in the background.


----------------


At the same time, best of luck with your new job, Prim. :k Take care, you guys. *hugs* with comforting cyber mugs of hot Milo

I just popped in and saw the sad news :(

{{{{{{{Prim, Viola, Azalea & their family}}}}}}

Words are no good but I am so very sorry to hear of the death of your dear mum, please take a little comfort from the fact that we are all thinking of you.

You are in my thoughts at this sad time. :k


--





Belated Happy Birthday to MsU, hope you had a good day.



Hugs,

L

My deepest sympathy to Prim, Viola and Azalea.

Originally posted by ainon
Ariel, please, do you have a direct link? :)

Darlin' - clean out your PMs and I'll get it right too ya!... :D

Ariel

Ariel, I've read "Fear" and am eagerly awaiting the next chapters! I think your Dody shapes up to be a hobbit equivalent of Maeglin, and he *is* my favourite Silmarillion elf, with all the broody darkness.......

You know, I don’t think the HA "mild hysteria" is a let-down! Well, I *would* certainly have loved to see Elijah do the swoon, of course I would, :rolleyes: *and* to hear the words Frodo says just before he swoons. (Swoon!) But the scene we get in its stead is good, too, even discounting the HAC, for the reasons ainon give. :) Frodo manages to break out of a deep Ring-spell on his own, and we see what a huge toll that takes on him. The slightly stooped panicked panting in the background that Elijah manages is *very* angsty..... Not that I will pass judgement since I'm still only doing my early Angst Apprenticeship!

Somehow that scene also reminds me of that *other* completely out-of-focus but yet so important moment when Frodo unsuspecting picks up the Ring and his doom back in FotR...

The spoiler thing: I guess my problem is that I *really* want to eat the cake and have it. :rolleyes: I couldn't stand to be deprived of spoilers like "the pieta" before the film comes out , even if it will be a *huge* let-down if the scene then doesn't appear in the actual film. But at the same time, I'd love to be completely overwhelmed and amazed and surprised by the film itself…….. Since I probably don't have the willpower to stay even spoiler-light, perhaps some kind of magic potion that takes away all spoilery memory for a limited period of time is the solution to this dilemma? Anyone have the receipe for that lying around? I'm pretty certain there'll be a market for that product around here in 10 months' time. :rolleyes: :p

{{{{{Prim, Viola, Azalea}}}}}

So sorry to hear your news. With everyone else, I just want to say that you're not derailing the thread--IIRC, that's why we moved here to the Community Cafe in the first place, so we could share with and support each other. And a special {Prim}; starting a new job right now must be extra hard.

I wanted to share my little hobbit angel with you (yes, I know he was painted by some Italian hundreds of years ago, but the first time I saw him I knew he just had to be a hobbit angel). Whatever you think or believe about angels, I hope he can remind you of the warm thoughts of all of us coming to you on feathered wings with soft melodies.

The original picture is pretty big. I'm posting from work, and don't have all the editing options here I do at home, and no matter what I tried, he just refused to get smaller. So I think he must have wanted to come to you full-size (as full-size as a hobbit angel is).

http://www.imagemagician.com/images/tgshaw/off topic/www_pics_am-rosso1.jpg

Prim & Viola & Azalea,

Many sweet hugs to you! May you be surrounded in RL with the loving comfort of friends, family, and treasured memories....may peace be with you...

May our little cyber community bring you some smiles and a sense of sharing...and of our cyber caring. Derail as needed. We care.

Notabluemaia

((((((Prim, Viola & Azalea)))))))))...I'm not really a Faculty member, but my thoughts are with you.

TG: Beautiful, beautiful hobbit angel.

Prim, Viola, Azalea, I'm so sorry to hear about the sad news. :( Hugs and kisses to you all. :k (((((((((Prim, Viola, Azalea)))))))))



------------
Happy Belated Birthday, MsUnderhill!


------------
I brought some Fro gifs, hope they could cheer us up a little bit.
I signed up with Lycos Tripod UK for a free webspace account. (thanks for the advice, Ariel, but I'm on a network sharing cable connection, so no webspace from ISP for me. :o ) I just uploaded some, I hope they show up here. *fingers crossed*

1. "Frodo wouldn't have got far without Sam."
I remember reading someone here saying the Rabbit Stew scene reminded them of the "light shining through" quote, which I agree, and this scene here is another one that reminded me of that quote. I just LOVE how the sun shines on Frodo's face after he says "without sam". The color here unfortunately is a bit grayer than what we saw in theater though.
http://members.lycos.co.uk/delubycc/gif.gif http://members.lycos.co.uk/delubycc/ttt03.gif

2. Frodo's Secret Sam Smile.
(Is that the Official Faculty-Dubbed name? Or did I remember it wrong? :confused: :o )
http://members.lycos.co.uk/delubycc/gif.gif http://members.lycos.co.uk/delubycc/ttt04b.gif


*****
OK, they showed up fine during reply preview, so that should work.

Oh, Deluby, those are wonderful gifs!

I never noticed the sun shining through on Frodo's face at that moment. Beautiful and sublime.

And as I watched the 'Secret Sam Smile.' I felt a grin spread across my own face! So lovely.

Thank you!:k

deluby,
thank you for the gifs! Those are such sweet, loving moments...essentially Frodo, essential sweet Frodo. Love the way PJ has used light to underscore the spiritual undercurrents of Tolkien.

"Thanks" everyone for your kind words. As per usual I have lurked rather than posted and was really touched by your concern and understanding for what Prim, Viola and I are going through. KD is great relief from RL.:)

Originally posted by Maeglian
Somehow that scene also reminds me of that *other* completely out-of-focus but yet so important moment when Frodo unsuspecting picks up the Ring and his doom back in FotR...

I wonder if it's a movie technique or something - because of course this would only work on widescreen - to have two entirely separate events happening on-screen, one in the foreground and the other in the background, while the background out-of-focus event is really the more significant in the larger scheme of things.

The other reason I have a soft spot for the scene is because Sam verbalises a question I've always had for Faramir: Won't he help Frodo?. I know it's just me being shallow, but it always bothered me in the book that at the end, all Frodo gets from Faramir is food and a walking stick and the promise long-term friendship if he ever comes back alive.



deluby! :k Those gifs are beautiful! The secret Sam smile, for me to see anytime I wish! And the sun shining on Frodo's face ... it always frustrates me when that little moment passes much too briefly on screen. Thank you! :)



{{{azalea}}} {{{Prim}}} {{{Viola}}}

OK, seems I'm in a GIF mood today, just made a special one.
A Collage of Frodo:
http://members.lycos.co.uk/delubycc/gif.gif version 1: http://members.lycos.co.uk/delubycc/collageb.gif
450*270, 1.8mb.
http://members.lycos.co.uk/delubycc/gif.gif version 2: http://members.lycos.co.uk/delubycc/collage.gif
Cropped version plus a bit transition between each pic, 300*270, 2.4mb.

Apologize for the big size this time, since it's a collage, I just couldn't bear to sacrifice any more frames. :o
Best viewed with image browsers.(eg. ACDSee)
Enjoy! :)

Deluby, the collage is amazing!!! Save that one, and next year you can add the RotK images. Then we'll have Deluby's Cole's Notes for Frodo in LotR!

Thank you for lending your talents to us this way. It is very much appreciated! :notworthy: :k

deluby! Thank you! :k How much time did you take to do that? It's incredible! It's just so wonderful! And it's so right somehow that it ends on that last image.

like Narya says, deluby ... :notworthy:


Well, my time at Image Magician will be over soon, so I'll post these before that time comes.

http://www.imagemagician.com/images/ainon/LoTR/fg1.jpg

http://www.imagemagician.com/images/ainon/LoTR/fg2.jpg

Originally posted by deluby
I signed up with Lycos Tripod UK for a free webspace account. (thanks for the advice, Ariel, but I'm on a network sharing cable connection, so no webspace from ISP for me.) I just uploaded some, I hope they show up here. *fingers crossed*
Hmmm... my free webspace account is with Lycos Tripod, too, and it won't let me link directly to an image, only to a page. Wonder if the difference is because of the program I'm using (it's horrendously simple, which is why I use it :rolleyes: -- no FTP necessary which, as far as I'm concerned, makes it at least understandable), because I'm not UK, or some other reason.

Because I don't have time right now to worry about switching accounts, etc., for the time being I'm planning to cough up the $9.99/year for the most basic account at Imagemagician (85.3 cents a month :eek: ); it doesn't have quite as much space as I've been using, but if I use it just for posting single images and keep using my website for series of screencaps, it should work. (I kind of like posting the series on my website, anyway, as there are actually a few non-KD people who've visited my site :eek: and have appreciated those pages. If needing to access my site for them is a problem for anyone, let me know--when I have a bit more time :rolleyes: , I'll be looking at some other options, anyway, but that might not be til summer.)

2. Frodo's Secret Sam Smile.
(Is that the Official Faculty-Dubbed name? Or did I remember it wrong? :confused: :o )

Well, I think I first used the name over in the Trilogy forum after the FotR SE came out, but I'm honored that it seems to have caught on :o :) .

If anyone wants "reminder images," here are the first two that I originally posted in that forum. It took the "Neither will I, Sam," moment in the SE DVD to make it something other than just a nice little smile--because the two were so much alike. Then the one at the end of TTT made it three. In each one, Frodo's smiling [i]about Sam but has his back to him--hence the "secret" part.

http://www.imagemagician.com/images/tgshaw/Fellowship/cap0998-85-crop.jpg

http://www.imagemagician.com/images/tgshaw/Fellowship/cap0991-85-crop.jpg

And the strictly on-topic application to this thread ;) , of course, is that there aren't too many actors who have such a selection of facial expressions that they can use one for a single purpose--and I haven't seen Frodo use that particular smile for anything else. In fact, I haven't seen Elijah use that particular smile for anything else, although that may change as I rewatch more of his movies after having seen it. If anyone spots it in another of his movies, it'd be fun to see if it's used for a similar purpose.

Deluby, thanks for those gifs--I do love that particular scene, too. (When I tried to download the collages I realized that they'll have to go on my "things to look forward to on the weekend" list, as I don't have enough time to download them before work--but I definitely am looking forward to them!)

The following paragraph has been highly edited: I'm having quite a laugh at myself :o :D over the way I originally wrote it! I said that in the second photo that ainon posted, it looked as if someone had crimped Frodo's hair--then I looked at it again and realized :rolleyes: that I was seeing the words that were stamped on the pic! So, any comments about Frodo as a 1920's flapper that were read before I edited the paragraph can be ignored! (Nice pics, though, ainon :) -- looks like the "Hamletian Hobbit" publicity shoot.)

Deluby, that is a beautiful collage indeed. Guaranteed now that I will get *nothing* done today at all--!:D

Deluby..once again a great gif! The slow sad disintegration of our most beloved hobbit. Waaah! Still he CAN have those secret little smiles. And come to think of it I've never seen Elijah use exactly that same smile for anyone else. It is definitely his Frodo-for-Sam smile.

Thanks to Flourish, I can drop in again without double posting :) ... Too busy with LotR this morning to say anything about my latest Bumblebee research ;) . I'm at work, and don't have any pics available, but I'm not sure which ones I'd post anyway...

Let's just say that I've reverted to "Aaaughh! Someone hook that kid's brain up to electrodes!" mode -- Meaning that in the best possible way, of course :p . Either this stuff is subconscious, or he's got control over facial muscles I didn't even know existed.

When we first see him drugged and/or hypnotized, watching the "movie" (he's watching the screen--the camera is constantly on him in close-up), as things start happening on the screen, he first has some obvious eyebrow movement, and I thought, "Well, yeah. Anybody could do that." But then things get more subtle. Some of it's with his eyes, which are wide open the whole time--how do you change expression in your eyes when they're wide open and don't move? #%&$& if I know, but he does it! Then there are those little muscles alongside the nose, the ones that on my face serve basically as a place to rest my glasses. I'd seen him use them before, but in this scene he has instances of (1) moving them both at the same time, and (2) just moving one! And, of course, just that makes a slight difference in how strained his expression is.

Last night I stood in front of the mirror and tried to consciously imitate him--couldn't, of course :rolleyes: . How does he do that?! (Yeah, I know, an old question, but it just keeps coming back.) I'm still putting my money on the subconscious microexpression theory for at least some of what he does--that when he connects with a character's emotions there's some kind of link to his autonomic nervous system that produces the subconscious reactions that would come from actually having that emotion. Still waiting for that Huck Finn DVD. There are some subtle emotions in that movie. If he does this same kind of thing in his younger roles, that would really support the hypothesis.

The really, really, sad thing is that (to answer the unavoidable question), no I don't have that much time on my hands. I'm doing this when I should be doing other things :o !! Am I moving from obsession to addiction :eek: ? The only remedy I can come up with is getting back to writing that research grant so there's some income involved :p . Now, what university was that microexpression researcher connected to ;) ??

Deluby; - you're a true marvel!!! Thank you, thank you! :k Unbelievable, really, all those very different faces of Frodo...... Imagine how this slide show will look when we follow him all the way to how he looks at Mt. Doom and the Havens! The transition from happy and carefree into pain, grief, wisdom, despair, and suffering........ New Line and PJ must count themselves so incredibly lucky that Elijah was there to take this role on!


Oh; - the Secret Sam smile, especially the one at the end of TTT! (swooon) So sad and angsty with the transition from that, to Gollum plotting, to that shot with the frightening overview of Mordor..... :(


Ainon, such wonderful pictures you posted too! It's the Hamletian hobbit and .......the Lear-esque wizard!?! Does anybody know when those promo pictures were made, it was probably while they were doing main filming back in 2000? The Hamletian hobbit *is* still one of my (many) Frodo favourites.


About Froshadowings: I don't know if everybody here visits the Harem or the Hugs Haven. If you don't, now's the time to do so! Spork has just posted a heap of Huck Finn pics proving once and for all that Huck Finn really *is* one continuous Froshadowing! :)


Tg, I'm looking forward to more research and comments on Bumblebee, of course! :)



((((((((Viola, Prim and Azalea)))))))))

Sorry to go a bit OT here.Originally posted by tgshaw
Hmmm... my free webspace account is with Lycos Tripod, too, and it won't let me link directly to an image, only to a page. <snip>Because I don't have time right now to worry about switching accounts, etc., for the time being I'm planning to cough up the $9.99/year for the most basic account at Imagemagician (85.3 cents a month I did a bit search and comparison on free web space and image hosting sites over the weekend. Most free webspace provider have limits on single file size(1mb) and various bandwidth restrictions, and of course disallow direct linking to images. Lycos Tripod has those limits but not Lycos Tripod UK. (interesting, huh?) LTUK claims to provide unlimited bandwidth and no limit on individual file size and looks like they support direct image linking too. ;) They do have a barometer on your account page to indicate your status. It can go from green all the way to red, mine is still on green so I don't know what'll happen if it goes to red. :rolleyes: I think if you use too much bandwidth, the indicator will go towards red and maybe they'll have you cut down the traffic a little, or something. Anyway, so far I'm happy with Lycos Tripod UK.
As for image hosting sites, I haven't found any good free sites, but I quite like one pay site: ImageEvent (http://imageevent.com/) They offer 2 payment options, $2.95 / month or $24.95 for a year. They give you 1500 image space(about 1500mb) and allows single image up to 10mb and you can store mpeg video as well. Direct link to image allowed. And some other functions and benefits. You can sign up for a 21-day free trial package with 15 images(15mb) and 5mb single image limit but no direct linking. See their package detail here: http://imageevent.com/packages.jsp
And here's my trial account album if you want to see what it looks like. http://www.imageevent.com/deluby/gifs
So, if you decide to use a pay site, I suggest you take a look at ImageEvent, which I think offers much better service than ImageMagician, and charges less than IM too.
Anyway, just wanna share my little research result in case any other faculty members are looking for webspaces and stuff. Hope it helps. :)

----------

OK back OT, I'm glad you liked the collage, you bet I'll add ROTK frodos as the time comes. ;) If I can survive the aftermath of ROTK, that is. :(
When the final image ends and rotates right back to the happy FOTR frodo, it just breaks your heart. :(


****edit****
My God, what's with the head shaving thingy?:eek: :rolleyes: :p
http://www.empireonline.co.uk/img/awards/large/22.jpg

deluby--many :k for the wonderful gifs. I downloaded them and they play byootifully on quicktime....

ainon--those pix of Gandalf and Fro are lovely, too. I wonder if IM was on a box or EW was on his knees in those?

Oh, I love your analysis of Bumblebee, tg. More! More!

And the Faculty simply MUST see the Huck Finn Froshadowings that Spork posted in the Harem. :p

Talking about the Huck Finn Froshadowings, should I add the corresponding LOTR pics in between and make a slideshow gif like the Frodo one?

Originally posted by deluby
Talking about the Huck Finn Froshadowings, should I add the corresponding LOTR pics in between and make a slideshow gif like the Frodo one?

Do you even need to ask?? :D Let me be the first to say "of course!!!!!" you gif queen, you!!!

Deluby; -

Do you even need to ask?? :D Let me be the second to say "of course!!!!!" you gif queen, you!!!

Oooh........something to *really* look forward to!!! :)

OK, I just took a good look at those Huck Finn pics, some of them actually reminded me of scenes other than the caption suggested, so I might use different Frodo pics. Hope that's ok with you guys. :)

Originally posted by deluby
Talking about the Huck Finn Froshadowings, should I add the corresponding LOTR pics in between and make a slideshow gif like the Frodo one?

I wasn't able to play the GIFs at work but I ran them when I got home and I LOVED them! The Disintegration and Sanctification of Frodo Baggins! Thanks, Deluby! And by all means, DO do a Huck Finn/LoTR slideshow! Puhleeeeze!! :p

This Huck Finn movie is NOT available on DVD??

Originally posted by deluby
OK, I just took a good look at those Huck Finn pics, some of them actually reminded me of scenes other than the caption suggested, so I might use different Frodo pics. Hope that's ok with you guys. :)

deluby, love, everything is okay with us guys, you gif queen you! :k

Right, guys? ;)

Elda, yes! Huck Finn is available on DVD. There's a Director & Editor's commentary too, and they have the most wonderful things to say about dear Elijah ... including the fact that if Elijah had sucked, the movie would have flopped, and the director would never be where he is today, so really, he owes his career to Elijah. :D And they refer to him being in LOTR (the commentary must have been done before FotR came out) - about how much he's grown up, and they sound quite proud of him. Aww. It's a great DVD; worth every cent.

Originally posted by ainon
Huck Finn is available on DVD. .... It's a great DVD; worth every cent.

Oh, seconded! I adore Huck Finn - I loved it when I first saw it... but of course, didn't look on its star as anything but a kid who did a great job playing Huck... little did I know he would someday play the character I loved most in the world.

And there were shots like this that were just too priceless!
http://www.frodosharem.org/Pics/Huckend.jpg

Deluby... I had to wait till I got home to view those .gifs and now I can't get them :(. It may be my ISP or it may be that they are just so popular that I can't get my foot in the door (virtually speaking)... but I did want to let you know. I am still hoping I will be able to access them sooner or later.

Speaking of pics... there is one that I have always just loved. It is of Elijah in Frodo garb but definitely not looking like Frodo... but it is a sweet and flattering picture of Elijah. I have one poor copy and I would love to see if anyone has any idea of where it came from and if there is a better version out there somewhere.

http://www.frodosharem.org/Pics/Frodoonlocation.jpg

I have a feeling this is one of Viggo's snapshots... like the ones he plastered all over his mirror - but it is such a charming, sweet and darling picture - I'd really love to have a good copy of it.

Ariel

Why...I seem to be seeing an Amazon.com order in my near future....can't imagine why!!

Thanks for the tips, ladies!

Originally posted by Ariel
I have one poor copy and I would love to see if anyone has any idea of where it came from and if there is a better version out there somewhere.

I have a larger version, though I don't know how much better the quality is. It looks like it could use some lightening and sharpening, to me! There is an address at the bottom: http://www.ifrance.com/ahobbitstale/

... but when I checked just now, it said the site was inaccessible at the moment. Hopefully that means it will be back up an running soon. If not, PM me and I'll email it to you! :)

Thank you for all the kind words guys.
Things are getting easier now.
And I've survived 2 weeks at work and so far have not done anything too stoopid!!! (I'm not counting small stupidities here...)

Ainon- I love the first Frodo and Gandalf pic. It makes EW look so genuinely much smaller than McKellan than he is in real life. And so very serious!

I think the Huck Finn shot looks remarkably like a naughty cherub, all he needs is curls and skimpy clothing.

Talking about angels: thank you tg. :)

Oh yes Ariel. One of my favorites too as you can tell from my avatar. ;) I love the way the light shines on his face and that lovely sweet smile. In fact I think that is one of the first pictures I saved way back when LOTR was little more than an internet rumor-have no idea where it came from unfortunately. I still have a copy but I don't think it's any better than the one you have. I tried to do some work on it but couldn't get any real improvement :( Couldn't get it to enlarge either. It gets really grainy. So I second your request for a better version.

Okay, you convinced me...

http://image1ex.villagephotos.com/1521922.jpg

I cropped off the website address and sharpened it just a tad (though you can't really tell). I tried lightening it, but then I decided that I actually preferred it in its original form. So, enjoy! :D

Alright, here it is:
The Huck Finn Froshadowing collection.
http://members.lycos.co.uk/delubycc/gif.gif http://members.lycos.co.uk/delubycc/hf.gif
It's about 1.4mb.
Some of the froshadowing moments are not the ones suggested in the caption, but those are the best I could think of, if you have any suggestions, please share and I could change it.
Enjoy!!:)


P.S. Ariel, I think Lycos Tripod is a bit unstable, I couldn't get to those myself either earlier today, even though I had no problem uploading at the same time, so try again later if it doesn't show. They are working now as I'm posting this. Oh, and LOVE that adorable Huck Finn cap. Thank you!

I second Azalea and Prim's thanks for all the words of support during this difficult time. It's been truly amazing to realise that so many people thought of us and wanted to let us know that they cared
Like Prim and Azalea I have been intermittently lurking -but not really up to responding in depth to the current discussion!
-loved the pics though :)

I'm off to the UK tomorrow evening..back to the cold and wet, and another phase of RL -work!!

I did manage to see TTT twice and watched a bit of LOTR with Azalea tonight and as ever, completely blown away by Elijah's acting! the kiwi phrase "Awesome" seems appropriate :cool:

Viola

Originally posted by enaiowen
...In fact I think that is one of the first pictures I saved way back when LOTR was little more than an internet rumor-have no idea where it came from unfortunately. I still have a copy but I don't think it's any better than the one you have. I tried to do some work on it but couldn't get any real improvement :( Couldn't get it to enlarge either. It gets really grainy. So I second your request for a better version.
Took a long quote from your post, enai, because I could say it myself, word for word! It was such an early pic, in fact, that I halfway think it might have been one of the first publicity shots from the official site. And back in those days, I remember trying so many things to improve it that I ended up pretty much ruining it and had to go back and get another copy (of course I never do anything like that anymore :rolleyes: :rolleyes: ). But mine's exactly like Ariel's, so there's no sense even attaching it. IIRC, it seemed to be purposely in that kind of sepia color, so maybe that's why it's so hard to get the color correct--although BB's has a perfectly nice green tree in the back. :confused:

-----------------

Love the Huck Finn gif, Deluby (but who's that guy in the last picture :p ?). And I'm so glad you added the one of him "in bed, unconscious, recovering from a wound that almost killed him"-- I was surprised that one wasn't in the original set of pics (unless I missed it). Of course, I'm not at all surprised that there are tons of froshadowings in Huck Finn, since that's the movie that turned Elijah into Frodo for me (there were a number of movies where I watched Frodo playing other characters before he played himself :p ). In that shot Ariel posted, I've always thought he looked like a perfect little Brandybuck--and not too happy about it!

--And, Eldalieva, yes, Huck Finn's been on DVD for awhile. I'm a bit of a latecomer in ordering it (which is why I'm "waiting"), but I did just get my email notification that it's been sent. Amazon had a notice on the page saying that it would be "released" on February 6, so I'll be interested to see if it's a new version--maybe the extra material's been updated. [For budget reasons, I'm having to get the DVD's gradually. One of the drawbacks (?) of being an Elijah Wood fan pre-LotR--and pre-DVD player--is that I have almost all his movies on VHS, and it's taken me some time to convince myself that it's okay to buy DVD's of movies I already own on VHS--my frugal upbringing, I guess. It took my full-blown screencap addiction to change my mind; guess a junkie will pay anything for a fix, eh ;) ? I have The Ice Storm coming with my Ash Wednesday order, and then I may have to wait awhile to buy more.]

---------------------------

Also, Deluby, that difference between Tripod Lycos in the US and the UK is interesting--and a bit frustrating since I can't do the direct linking. I have to say I do like their program as far as websites go, and when I started my website I'd never heard of screencaps, direct linking, and all kinds of other lovely things that I've found out about since. The site's developed enough now that I kinda hate to move it, but I think I may be upgrading to a paid site sometime this year (for business reasons, not screencaps, although I'm sure I'll somehow find room for the latter :) ).

For anyone who doesn't read the Community Cafe thread, Bridget Chubb has posted a link there to a free "image" site that she found. I have a couple of qualms about their membership agreement, but Bridget doesn't see any problem with it, so my "inner granny" is probably just being too cautious--you know, the same old lady who doesn't think I need those DVD's ;) .

-------------------------------

And I've been saving today's avatar for a day when I had a minute to say something about it--very relevant to this thread :) . I took some special care to make it exactly square, because IMHO the body language is so spot-on. He has himself pulled into a very protective, defensive pose. Normally, someone sitting like that would be showing self-protection--for example, saying very clearly that he doesn't want to be involved in something that's happening. That could be true in this case, but here the position also "happens" to be very protective of the Ring. Frodo's made himself almost a perfect square--with the Ring at the center of it.

Viola, hope you have a safe trip back to UK!

deluby ... what can I say? That Huck Finn Froshadowing gif is sheer perfection! Well, okay, I'm sure there're always one or two or ten more Froshadowings we could add ;) It's something to see: little Elijah/older Elijah/little Frodo/real Frodo. :cool: And yes, I'd say your Froshadowings are spot-on because you were actually going by his expressions.

Bunnie thanks for tracking down that pic, and Ariel for asking for it! I love it too, but I didn't know that it's been around for so long! Who's that hobbit who got culled out of the pic? Pippin?

tg - I meant to say how much I liked your anime Frodo avatar. I like today's avatar too, both for your very astute observation and for the fact that EW is so amazingly flexible! It's can be tiring to sit the way Frodo's sitting there, without supporting the knees for that extended period of time.

Also appreciated your Secret Sam Smile pics, tg. For no real reason (aside from the usual perfectly understandable reason of wanting to look at Frodo, Frodo and more Frodo) I looked around for EW & IM and F & G pics.

http://maggiebear.crosswinds.net/misc25/misc248.jpg
http://www.classicxf.com/images/FOTR/shire/003ashire.jpg
http://www.classicxf.com/images/FOTR/shire/003bshire.jpg

http://maggiebear.crosswinds.net/misc65/misc642.jpg
http://www.imagemagician.com/images/ainon/LoTR/fg1.jpg
http://www.classicxf.com/images/FOTR/extended1/404evmoria.jpg
http://maggiebear.crosswinds.net/misc65/misc643.jpg
http://www.classicxf.com/images/FOTR/extended1/403evmoria.jpg
http://www.classicxf.com/images/FOTR/extended1/408evmoria.jpg
http://www.classicxf.com/images/FOTR/extended1/426evmoria.jpg

bandwidth borrowed from http://www.classicxf.com/images/FOTR/ and http://maggiebear.crosswinds.net/elijahpicture/index.html

Originally posted by ainon

Bunnie thanks for tracking down that pic, and Ariel for asking for it! I love it too, but I didn't know that it's been around for so long! Who's that hobbit who got culled out of the pic? Pippin?

Ahahaha! Do you know, after all the time I spent scrutinizing that photograph, both in the past and recently, it never even registered that there was another hobbit standing next to him? :eek: Uh... not fixated. Nope. Not me. :p

And those hooded Fro pics never fail to take my breath away... I'm not an expert on Elwood's camera angles like some around here, but that's got to be one of the best. And contrast it with the shot immediately following this sequence (I think it's where Gimli says, "Look! The Walls of Moria."), where the camera hits him dead-center, and it's almost like it's a different person. Remarkable.

In fact, I'm frequently struck by that phenomenon of how he can look so different in different shots. I suppose it's something y'all have discussed at length, or maybe that's a Harem discussion, but it's so fascinating to me. And an excuse to stare at him for extended periods of time. ...For research purposes. Yeah. :rolleyes: (And like I need an excuse, anyway...) :D

Ainon! It's Happy Frolijah Feeling Love! Are you trying to kill me? In the Faculty?!?

{{{Prim, Viola and Azalea}}} I'm very sorry for your loss. Your mother sounds like a wonderful person, and I'm sure she was proud of her three wonderful daughters.


deluby, you are a GODDESS. 'Nuff said.:k

ainon, I love your Lij/Ian and Frodo/Gandalf comparison pics. Excellent research there!:cool:

erendis, which camera angle is that in the Hooded Fro pics posted by ainon? As our cinematography expert, you must enlighten us.:D

Looks like it's time for me to buy the Huck Finn DVD.:) :) :)

Seeing all those Sir Ian/Elijah & Gandalf/Frodo pics together (thanks ainon :) )just makes me marvel all the more at how those height differences were done. The "Better than it was," shot has always amazed me that way, because you see both of them so clearly--and the ones from the "Hamletian" photo shoot are the same way.

The hugs in the cart are less unnerving because I know in each one we're seeing the back of the scale double. (BTW, from my ongoing "research" I'm almost positive that when Frodo jumps from the bank beside the road into Gandalf's arms, it's really Elijah jumping, but it's Sir Ian's scale double catching him.)

But some of the others shots I'm willing to accept as movie magic--I'm not sure I want to know how they did them.

Dang, I knew somebody would ask me about the Camera Angels. :) My analysis, a posteriori: #4 and #5: The straight-on shots show off Elijah's very square jawbone. #6: Camera Angel #1, the same as the Froster. He's got the Squinch too (Harem term for angsty furrowed eyebrows). #7: Camera Angel #2, like my avatar, except a little more to the side. #8 #9 #10: Camera angel #2 + Squinch. #2 and #3 Frolijah Feeling Love looks good from any angel. :DBTW I notice that a lot of Frodo avatars are Camera Angel #1 and #2.

*Prepares for trouts from Hobmom* because I'm about to get medieval on Elijah's face.

This Camera Angel/facial feature thing has been bugging me -- why does Elijah look so good at some angles and so funny from others? #7 tipped me off, and now I have to get all analytical. Elijah's features are very -- er -- self-contained (? I can't think of a better word). That is, his features are separately lovely or separately funny-looking.

Elijah's "funny looking" features IMO: Elijah's jawbone. Not only is square, it's relatively cubic, like the corner of a box. From the side, the line goes down to the bone, then across with an angle not far from 90°. From the front, his face goes straight down, then straight across to where his... ...chin protrudes out down, almost a rectangle in itself. The whole squareness is accentuated by those... ...diagonal wrinkles -- do the have a name -- which make his face into right triangles. The cheekbones are prominant. When you focus on them, it looks like his cheeks are puffy. (#7) His cheeks stand out even more when contrasted against... ...his forehead, which slopes back.Of course his lovely features are his Eyes and Eyelashes. Nuff said about them. The size and shape of his nose is near perfect, especially the profile. Ditto for his mouth.The outside features are very separate and angular. This is why he is said to have strong features. The inside features are a little softer.

Now the camera angles are starting to make sense! A camera angle that shows the most funny features could be expected to be his worst. Example: Straight on. It's a camera angle that shows his square jaw, his down-protrusion chin, and those triangle wrinkles. Now make sure the camera angle shows lots of facial skin, so that his Eyes take up only a small % of the visible facial area as possible. You don't see the graceful line of his nose profile at ALL, just the nub in front; i.e. his nose area % is small as well. Result: Straight on shows all funny features and hides his good ones. This is his most unattractive angle.

Now, a camera angle that plays up his lovely features and hides his funny ones would be very attractive, right? Let me try something. Think of a shot slightly to the side, with him looking up, say, Cap #7. Cap #7 has potential. Because it's from the side, you only see one of the right angles his jawbone makes, the angle that's not 90°. It's not so funny-looking as the front one. So his funny square jaw and chin are hidden, especially if he's looking slightly up. The chin falls in line nicely. Those diagonal wrinkles are gone too. The lovely features are played up somewhat, such as his Eyes,which take up more of the facial area than in Straight-on. You also start to see the profile of his good nose. This is an extreme camera Angel #2, one of his best angles. However, Cap #7 is a little too extreme. Although you see his lovely features, you have not hidden all of the funny-looking ones. There is still some square jaw and to contend with. His forehead slope is quite visible, bringing out the puffy cheeks. His Eye area % is too low, as is his Nose area %. So, let's fix Cap #7. [list=1] Hide the Jaw: From the front his jaw is square, from the side his jaw is square -- let's turn him to approx 45° to hide both. Increase the Eye and nose area %.We're in luck! Turning to 45° does both. It brings in more of the other Eye, and exposes a whole side of nose. Hide the sloping forehead: That sloped forehead in #7 brings out the puffy cheekbones. You could hide it by turning him more to the front. BUT, that would destroy that beneficial 45° angle. You can't hide both simultaneously! What to do with the pesky forehead? Why, cover it with The WIG! All hail The Wig! With the slope gone, the cheekbones are reigned in a little. [/list=1]There, we maximized the lovely features and minimized the funny ones. Result: a textbook Camera Angel #2 -- See CAP #10. I have heard many say is the best shot of him. Well, maybe this is why.

I wonder if PJ thought all this out, or if he just said -- I like that camera angle, and wisely stuck with it.

Okay Goldie, since you started me on this odyssey: your homework is to do a similar analysis on Camera Angle #1, your avatar. Include the influence of The Wig. :p :hug: :k

--------

Something else: there appears to be very little -- what would I say -- "feature gradient?" No blending from one feature to another. Do people have small facial muscles that connect the big features? If so, I guess if the muscles are relatively big, they hide your bone strcutre, and your features could amorphously blend. But on Elijah, it seems as if those facial muscles are very small, showing all bone. I wonder if those small muscles are perhaps better controlled? Could that be the reason for his microexpressions, how he can seemingly move one feature while keeping another one still? Does it explain the Mystery of the No Blurry Screencaps?

-------------
* In math and science there is a term a priori, meaning that you draw your conclusion from known formulas and root causes; literally: "from first prinicples." The term a posteriori literally means "from the posterior," i.e. I'm talking outta my butt here! :p

erendis: LOL!!!

Boy is that ever a classic Faculty analysis! With homework, no less! :p

Erendis-
*Prepares for trouts from Hobmom* because I'm about to get medieval on Elijah's face.

Nah! No trouts. ;)

I adore Elijah..obviously... but his face is not perfect..just beautiful. All those not as good angles are accurate. A perfect face can be really boring.

If anybody likes my wallpapers I just added a webpage of lots of purdy new ones to my orignal site which is probably going to stay my site afer-all...

My Lij Wallpaper Page (http://www.angelfire.com/celeb2/elijahw/lijwpprs.html)

Lookit! I learned how to do the thumbnail-click-to-big-image html thingie!!!!

Well.... inner Liv exclaims.."It was hard!!!!":rolleyes:

:) :k erendis. That little dissertation was the first good cyber laugh I've had in a while.

But- and yes there is a but I disagree with your primary assumption: viz ( ;) :rolleyes: sorry just felt like tossing that word in...giggle...) what is beautiful and what is "funny".

Disclaimer: this is a personal interpretation only:

The outside features are very separate and angular. This is why he is said to have strong features. The inside features are a little softer.



IMO the distinction between the two sets of features rings a bell. They are very different. But I see them from a slightly different perspective: the features that erendis sees as beautiful (and I agree) I see as "feminine" or at least as androgenous. I think we had a discussion (in detail...:rolleyes: ) a while ago on a now deceased board, about androgeny and beauty so I won't rehash the strange attraction women have to androgenous beauty.

The "funny" features ( good Lord erendis, you actually said that, and in the Faculty!!!! eeek ) just seem to me to be strongly masculine: stong bones, large forehead, very squared off jaw. The absence of excess body fat gives these characteristics extra definition.

This blend of feminine and masculine makes Elijah's face very attractive: the masculine aspects IMO save him from looking excessively feminine.

I agree with the effect of the camera angle no. 1 and the wig. The two combined highlight the androgenous features of EW and make him look more feminine, younger and ( I hate to say this because the association is grating to a feminist) thus more vulnerable. I suspect this is why PJ uses this shot so often and why women react so strongly to it. It could also explain why some men see EW's Frodo as a "sissy"- the camera angles and the wig bring out a more feminine aspect of beauty that many men feel uncomfortable with when its an example of male beauty.
I add I'm talking about NZ men here... other cultures may not feel the same way.

Originally posted by Prim
This blend of feminine and masculine makes Elijah's face very attractive: the masculine aspects IMO save him from looking excessively feminine.

Thank you, Prim - I was just going to say that, but you beat me to it. I actually LIKE the strong, angular jaw. It is decidedly masculine and is, IMVHO, Elijah's most saving feature. Without it, I think he would look TOO effeminate.

Ariel

Originally posted by ainon
Who's that hobbit who got culled out of the pic? Pippin?From this pic:
http://members.lycos.co.uk/delubycc/frodo092b.jpg
I'm guessing it's Merry?



RE: erendis's Camera Angle Analysis, ever since the first time I read it back at old Imladris/COE, I wished someone would make it into a html page, you know, complete with definitions, example pictures and all. Now that erendis posted it again and I was scrolling up and down to read the analysis and study the pictures ainon posted, that idea popped into my head again, so I quickly collected some pics and sorted them according to erendis's analysis. Now, I've never passed Faculty's basic analysis class, :o so I would like fellow Faculty members to take a look and see if I got them right. :)

P.S. I put numbers on each pic for easy reference.
P.P.S. Erendis, Camera Angel or Angle? Is it intentional or just a typo? :confused: ;)

http://members.lycos.co.uk/delubycc/ca1.jpg



http://members.lycos.co.uk/delubycc/ca2.jpg


There are some that I'm not sure which category they belong to.
And if I remember correctly, there were more than 2 categories in erendis's original analysis right?

http://members.lycos.co.uk/delubycc/ca0.jpg





*****edit*****
US ladies, Forever Young is playing on TBS tomorrow(Feb. 8th, Sat) at 10:45am PST, check your local listings.

Erendis, your research astounds me...however, I think you must admit that your verdict of whether or not he looks beautiful or "funny" can be purely a matter of opinion! And one thing I must object to is your habitual use of the term "sloping forehead," since THIS, my friend, is a sloping forehead:

http://schools.sd68.bc.ca/COAL/student/whitjess/Head.jpg

And unless Elijah Wood is, in fact, the Missing Link, I wouldn't call his forehead "sloping!" :p

Thanks also, Deluby for that fantastic collage...what is so amazing is how DIFFERENT he can look within the SAME camera angle! (And Erendis...how do you class the black and white shot? Or is that just in a class by itself?)

Erendis--While I'd need to study some more to really understand the finer points of camera angles, what you said about Elijah's strong and softer features has helped me solve a puzzle! :) One reason making avatars is fun for me is that it can be a real challenge to get a clear pic that's only 50x50 pixels. Most of them take a fair amount of "tweaking" and sometimes they go off in ways I didn't expect (anime Frodo was not planned :p ). And, occasionally, there's a pic that I think will work but, whatever I do, it just doesn't look right and I end up abandoning it. Over half the time, the problem is that I can't get Frodo to look like he has a nose!! There are some pics where changing the sharpness, contrast, brightness, color mix, or anything else just will not bring out a visible nose in that "miniature." With profiles that's not a problem, but there are some straight-on shots where the nose just ceases to exist, and I think what you said about Elijah's nose being one of his softer features could very well be behind that phenomenon.

But looking at the grouping of pictures Deluby posted (thanks--I was having a hard time telling what was what earlier ;) ) reminded me of something I think has almost as much effect--at least in the avatars--and that's what angle the light is coming from. What areas of his face are in light or shadow really makes a difference. An example might be the two Deluby has labeled 1 and 3--basically the same camera angle, but very different lighting and, IMHO, 3 is much more angular (or "masculine," if we want to use that terminology). Maybe this has such a strong effect because he doesn't have a perfect face? Which I agree would be very boring (and I think has something to do with why in "vintage" movies I always know who the male actors are, but often have a hard time putting names on the "pretty" females--I can recognize Katherine Hepburn and Ingrid Bergman, neither of whom have "perfect" faces).

And specifically in LotR, we've also got various angles used to accentuate the height differences between characters. I've been wondering if part of why Frodo looks so young in most of his Bag End scenes with Gandalf is that the camera so often shows him from Gandalf's POV--the camera pointing down at Frodo while he's looking up at Gandalf. Some people have pointed out that those were some of the first scenes shot, so Elijah would actually have been younger--but the scenes at the Bree gate and in the Prancing Pony were also some of the first scenes filmed and IMHO he looks older in most of his shots there. I'm just guessing at the effect of the "height difference" camera angles here, and wonder what those who know more about it might think??

I also go along with Prim and Ariel on the squared-off jaw--I especially think it'll "age" very well and look better and better on him as he matures. In the same area of the face :) I have an exceedingly--maybe excessively--purist reason for loving Elijah's chin. A cleft chin is the one specific feature that's mentioned for Frodo in the book. So, besides accentuating his masculine features, camera shots that show Elijah's cleft chin always give me a warm "Oh, look, it's Frodo," feeling. I think if someone cleft-chin-deprived had been cast as Frodo, it would have been a minor disappointment to me, no matter how good the actor was.

Finally, I understand most of the terminology in this discussion, I think, but there were a couple of things in erendis's original camera-angle post that must be quite specialized research terms because I haven't heard them before :o :

"the Froster" -- [Is that the "snow angel" shot on Caradhras?]
"getting medieval with" -- [I can't even make a guess...]

Can someone help me out :confused: ?

Erendis, you really must stop saying that about his forehead! It's a wonderfully fine, nice, rounded, intelligent-looking forehead and...BTW his hairline is not receding. ;)

All those angles are lovely to me.

I couldn't say which I like best. They are all beautiful.

Erendis and Prim, I think your combined analysis efforts are amazing! Very to the point with humour thrown in, and they go a long way to fully explain both the appeal of the research subject's facial features, the reason why he looks so different from moment to moment, and the effect of camera angles. :) :cool:

And the wonderful research collage provided by Deluby makes it very difficult to actually say something coherent instead of stumbling into the realm of mere blubbering! :o

I'll add a few comments anyway:From Prim
This blend of feminine and masculine makes Elijah's face very attractive. But in addition there also are a couple of characteristics that are uniquely his own, and that endows his face with personality. Those charcteristics would IMO be the weird change in his left eye, which makes it slightly larger or more droopy than the other in many pictures, and the gap between the front teeth. And in addition to *that*, there's that whole indefinable personality element, that makes the whole face light up from within in some pictures (it's almost always there when he's acting, but not always in RL pictures), and is completely gone in others.


Erendis, I still remember your previous dissertation on the effect of the wig, it was totally good! Unfortunately I think that was back on a now-gone Board and therefore it's irretrievable. Pity........


Like Elda, I've wondered about the immense appeal of the straight-on photographed "Black and White". I think it has to do with 3 elements:

- The pronounced light-and shadow effects, emphazising the nose much more than usual in pictures from that straight-on angle, *and* emphazising the eyes, and the *difference* in the eyes!

- The wig by and large covering the whole forehead

- Head tilted slightly forward/downward, this seems to soften the jaw. Compare this to the "Angelic" Osgiliath pic where the head is tilted upwards instead. The jaw seems extremely squarish and more prominent in that one.


Edit:
Tg, you posted while I was writing. And arrrgh! I forgot to mention the cleft chin! How could I?? :o
Here are the replies to your questions:

The Froster - That is picture no. 1 under camera angle 1 in Deluby's collage. (Called theFroster because it appeared in a poster advertising the FotR DVD). Although, Deluby's pic is not the actual poster-Froster, it's just Frodo! Deluby, where *did* you find that one? It's so beautiful!!

Getting Medieval with / on - quote from Pulp Fiction, I think, and means getting violent, battering, fighting etc.

Originally posted by tgshaw

"the Froster" -- [Is that the "snow angel" shot on Caradhras?]
"getting medieval with" -- [I can't even make a guess...]

Can someone help me out :confused: ? *snork!* Poor TG. ;) Okay...

I believe "the Froster" refers to #1 in Deluby's first set of pics, the camera angle #1 group.

"gettin medieval with" is current popular slang for beating someone or something up, or ripping it to shreds, etc, etc.


I'm not sure I agree with all the shots that Deluby put together in each group... or maybe I just need to study Erendis' explanation a bit more. But I'll be interested to hear Erendis' analysis of the groupings! :cool:

And that black and white one? I think that and party Fro (during Bilbo's speech) have their own special spot together. The B&W one has enough downward angle that the shot works by minimizing his jaw, even from dead center. The party one... is just a miracle of creation or something. LOL! :D :rolleyes: ;)

Edit: And of course Maeg was writing while I was, so we duplicated ourselves! :D Great minds, and all that. ;)

Originally posted by BunnieBugs
The party one... is just a miracle of creation or something. LOL!

I just don't think that any amount of analysis will ever explain THIS:
http://www.classicxf.com/images/FOTR/shire/019aparty.jpg

TG...yes, the cleft chin WAS one of the few distinct physical features Tolkien gave to Frodo, and how very wonderful it was that they found not just the perfect actor to play Frodo but the perfect actor with a cleft chin??? Divine Providence! But Gandalf also specifically said that Frodo had "a bright eye," and in that, too, Mr. Wood is just, well...perfect!

I think the black and white is camera angle. 1 as it is shot from above, and the chin is tucked down slightly. So is 4 of deluby's unsure group, , though it looks different as it is angle 1 but with a three quarter profile.

erendis' camera angle 2 seems to be shot slightly from below with the head turned three quarters?? As in 2 and 3 of the "unsure" bunch. I think??

I still love the Froster shot. And am pondering why his brows are so dark in this shot. Must be makeup and lighting? Very effective-moody.

Whoh nellie, talk about instant peer review! I knew the Faculty would pounce. :k I'll try to answer everybody...

First off, I apologize for "funny-looking." I can blame this one on good ol' Derlane from Imly/C-o-E, one of the main contributors to Frodo's Ungly Fingernails thread. She posted a collage of Elijah shots next to a collage of Frolijah shots and raised the original question of why Frolijah looked so good, while Elijah was sometimes "well -- funny-looking." This query prompted the original analysis of The Wig. All hail The Wig. (I may have that post saved somewhere, but I'm not sure.) I was very careful to put in an IMO. I'll agree with "masculine on the outside, feminine on the inside" though.

"Angle" vs. "Angel:" Well, it started off as a typo, :o now it's an intentional typo. ;) Nobody's denying it, right? Elijah was born to be photographed for permanent admiration and adoration, that's for sure.

By using "Getting medieval," I was throwing a bone to the lurking Haremites, since the phrase was recently used in the Harem. It's a reference to a line in Pulp Fiction in which a bad guy threatens to "get medieval" on someone's ***. The explanation in the Harem was "maximum damage," but a more accurate connotation implies damage in a medieval fashion -- racks and iron maidens and other assorted torture devices. (and if you remember that part of Pulp Fiction, it's entirely in context...eww)

Camera Angel #1.1 is indeed the valuable portion of the Froster.

Deluby is absolutley correct in all her catagorizations. Camera Angel 1 is relatively easy to spot. I can't go into detail because not all the homework is in yet, but I would say #1 is the angle that is the least dependent on The Wig. Most of the better caps from Wigless Bumblebee are Camera Angel #1. Camera Angel 2 is very tricky, -- it encomapsses a wider range, and almost anything that is not Straight-on or #1 could be classified as a variation of 2. ( Was there a fourth classification? :confused: ) Angel 2 is also the variation which is most influenced by the lighting and The Wig. I'm not sure I want to work all of that out.

But Deluby, HOW could you not post this Classic Angel #2?

http://www.imgmag.com/images/erendisofkd/Swoonablexfrodo.jpg

In this Camera Angle #2, the angle is not quite 45°, so the masculine jawbone is clearly visible. But I'll forgive anything because of the facial expression. http://catandmoon.com/hearts.gif

I'm not sure what to do about the sloping forehead debate. Elijah's forehead is certainly not sloping in the anthoropological sense. However, to me it does seems to start rounding off toward the top a little closer to his Eyes than in other people? I'm referring to ainon's cap 7. Perhaps Elijah has a very round spherical skull, especially since his hair doesn't cover it. There's no lack of pics to study skull shape... :rolleyes:

Unsure bunch -- open to interpretation. I would classify Unsure.3 as a variation of Angel 2. Unsure.4 is anybody's guess. Unsure.2 is a miracle of nature.

Unsure.1: The B&W http://catandmoon.com/dilemma.gif shot, is #1. There is also something unusual about the B&W ("Understatement," hmphs Elda. :k) It's an entirely posed shot, and the only Camera Angel #1 where Elijah's Eyes are directed dead-on at the camera. Most #1 are candid-type* shots, with Frodo or Barney actively looking down, or the camera looking down AT him. Both produce Angel #1, with the effect that the Eyes are always directed downward,** and so are half-hidden by Eyelids, Eyelashes, or even The Wig. But in the B&W, you get the benefit of Angel #1, The Wig, AND the maximum Eye area %. (and a little sardonic, daring, not-so-innocent turn up of his lips).

I should also say something here about the mouth. The mouth configuration can make or break a straight-on shot. I *think* the reason the straight-on red-carpet-promo shots look so -- er -- masculine -- is because Elijah smiles in them with his mouth wide open. This does several things: it widens his lower face, protruding the jawbone out past his neck. It pushes the rectangular chin down. Both are often accentuated by the pitiful beard. The smile also tightens his muscles, exposing the cheek wrinkles, and squinching his Eyes shut a little bit. Now, if Elijah is looking dead-on with no smile, but with a pensive look on his face, his jawbone is narrower and lines up perfectly with his neckline so his jawbone disappears. His facial muscles are relaxed, so there is no compression of his lips and they are the the maximum size. His Eyes are not squinched, but wide open. In other words, all his feminine features are maximized, and at their softest. If you focus entirely onto these soft features by covering the outer masculine features with The Wig, you get the very attractive... ... ... Party Fro. :p

--------------
*By candid-type, I mean not-posed. Of course no movie shot is "candid" in the truest sense, because the actor knows he's being filmed. But you could say that the shot is candid from the character's point of view.

**Shameless OT plug: There is one character-candid shot of an Angle #2 where the Eyes are nearly on the camera. Not Frolijah, but Josh Lucas in Sweet Home Alabama, which just came out on video. :p

Great Camera Angel stuff going on in here! Thanks erendis, Prim, et al; and deluby ... it's darn hard to take my eyes off those collages, how am I expected to even try any homework?

I do come bearing more images for Faculty consideration. I know I'm supposed to look at this from Camera Angle perspectives, but all I can think when I see Pic #1 is: "Frodo's smiling! Smiling!" :goes all gooey:

http://image1ex.villagephotos.com/1536591.jpg

http://image1ex.villagephotos.com/1536592.jpg

http://image1ex.villagephotos.com/1536593.jpg

Erendis, do you honestly mean to tell me that you have issues with the jawbone appearance in your favorite Camera Angel #2 Frolijah-Feeling-Love shot? Issues that are mitigated only by the expression on his face!?!? If this was the Harem, I'd tell you exactly what I think of his jawbone in that shot! :o :D

Now, which Angel is #1 that Ainon just posted? It's so hard to analyze this stuff by scrolling back and forth on my laptop! This needs to be on paper!

Well, I'm afraid I don't have anything to add to the latest round of face analysis.....the only way I can make a transition here is with an old movie title - i think one of the two professional movie reviewers who saw Ash Wednesday mentioned that it reminded him of those old James Cagney/Pat O'Brien melodramas - not exactly in the same league, unfortunately...

No spoilers here really, but scroll past if you don't want any Ash Wednesay info




Well, I’ve seen Ash Wednesday (it’s available from netflix.com now). Can’t really discuss it without getting spoilerish - I enjoyed it to some extent (has a nice look, beautiful score, lots of good actors, and lots of my man Ed!) but was still disappointed. Hmmm….. I guess there are worse things Ed Burns could have done with the few million in spare change he had lying around (he financed it himself, which could be the source of some of its flaws). It’s an interesting stab at a different genre for him, but not really his forte. Ew does seem miscast, but that could have been alleviated with some adjustments to the script. The script and story are the big problems – story has holes and nearly everyone’s saddled with lame corny dialog that they can’t all overcome. Even Rosario Dawson seems weak in this, not up to her usual standard. The DVD has a director’s commentary from Ed. He didn’t have much to say about EW’s casting, other than to say he had auditioned a bunch of unknown New York actors first, before getting EW (they have the same agent at William Morris). EW had read the script and liked it, Ed met with him and they “hit it off,” in Ed’s words, and he was cast. Ed himself sounded dissatisfied with the film and said he was only happy with three-fourths of it; most of his criticisms of specific scenes had to do with the lack of budget necessary to recreate the period (1983) and the technical compromises that were necessary.



Prim & family, sorry to hear about your mom:(

Wild Goose, interesting information about the Director's commentary. It sounds almost like EJW's casting was a coincidence? What did you think of EJW's acting, why do you think he seems miscast? Do you agree with others he seemed too young for the role?


Well, all this discussion about camera Angels (Tm Erendis) has reminded me of my old wonder and amazement that actors are able to emote and project anything at all, when faced with a lot of equipment and people just in front of their face and rigid requirements about just how to hold their head, and how much and when and where to move and turn. I still marvel that acting does not just drown in a lot of over-evident self-consciousness.

As a small apropos to that, I thought I'd post these 2 pictures:

The first is what *we* see in the film. The second is what the actors see while filming the scene.

http://www.classicxf.com/images/TTT/emynmuil/circles092.jpg

http://maggiebear.crosswinds.net/behind01/behind003.jpg

the pictures are fromhttp://www.classicxf.com/images/FOTR/ and http://maggiebear.crosswinds.net/elijahpicture/index.html

Maeglian, what an extraordinary reminder of a good actor's talent. How do they suspend belief with all that going on around them? *notworthy*

re the B&W, just so it's clear (a lot of pics have recently appeared here), the #1 pic here is the pic I'm refering to:
http://members.lycos.co.uk/deluby/ca0.jpg

I would like to thank erendis for this quote:(and a little sardonic, daring, not-so-innocent turn up of his lips).I was beginning to fear that I was a hopelessly lost soul all alone in my reaction, which is that this is Frolijah's best "Do Me" shot of all time - and with an invitation like that, I would! (given the opportunity) :o Might I add that he's begging for it in his eyes, too! (Stop that, young man!)

Now that I have made a complete fool of myself, the reason I came by this morning is to sing Elijah's praises to the group who could most understand my feelings of appreciation of him. And in the most platonic way possible, too - until all your pictures derailed my better inner self! :rolleyes:

Thanks to Elijah Wood, I have, for the first time in my life, enjoyed two rather extraordinary foreign films, complete with English subtitles. I have never been a fancier of foreign films, reacting in true old-fashioned American style to almost subconcious American style movies, and would never have rented either of them without the influence of our beloved Lij. Last night I shared with my 14-yo daughter "Amalie" which blew me away. Lij said in an interview long ago that this was one of his favorite films, so I wanted to see what he loved about it. If it was the pure romance of the story (and I mean this is the larger romantic sense - beyond the obvious male/female romance) - then I wish I could just give him a big, sweet kiss on the lips for being such a beautiful soul in this rather wicked world. If what he loved was more along the lines of the daring things the director did with the actual editing, etc. then that tells me something different about Elijah the person. Not anything less, just different. No big, sweet kiss on the lips, tho. ;) Just a nod of appreciation for his recommendation. How I would love to sit and quietly discuss this, among other things, with him!

BTW, the other foreign film that I enjoyed so much was "Run Lola Run", which I am re-renting to share with same 14-yo daughter. I guess you all know why I rented that long ago! ;) I didn't honestly think Elijah would have cared deeply for a woman who's acting skills he did not admire. And I decided from that movie that I was right. She does have talent. I hope to see more of that talent in The Bourne Identity, which everyone on the planet has seen except for me, but I have on my rent list.

Of course, said 14-yo daughter thinks I am crazy for renting movies just because a LoTR actor suggested them, but I defended myself stoutly on that score. I honestly feel Elijah Wood is one of the most talented actors on the planet, even at his young age, and if an expert in the field likes something, it is only simple common sense to check it out. I would feel the same about someone I consider "expert" in any field recommending me to something in their field. So why should I be embarrassed to follow EW's lead? :)

Anyway, last night I felt "connected" to Lij, in that getting to know him a bit has actually broadened my horizons, and you're lucky if you can say that about even close friends!

THANK YOU, ELIJAH! Getting to know you has been so :cool:

I have really enjoyed all micro-expression discussions (old and new), and those related, and have been lurking whenever possible. I love the Faculty.

P.S. My deepest sympathy to our sisters who recently lost their dear mother. I understand about not wanted to put it in print yourselves. I still haven't told some of my mother's out-of-town friends. Can't write it down on paper, and don't want to have to make up how easy her death was on the phone. I feel guilty about not informing them yet, but I only have so much strength to run on here. Your memories of times with her will become more and more enjoyable and refreshing as time passes. And, as a daughter who knew she was loved, and a mother of four now, believe me when I say that at the end, you girls gave her a feeling of a life well lived. That's what it's all about. (I have discovered Curly's "one thing" from City Slickers. And that's it.) (((((HUGS))))

So much said during the last few hours, I know I'll miss some things I wanted to add, but here's a bit--

Re the black & white shot-- I was given "instructions" one time that if you're having your picture taken, the best thing to do is tilt your head just a bit downward and then raise your eyes. I wasn't given any "why's" with those instructions, but what's been said here makes sense--it de-emphasizes the chin a bit and maximizes the eyes. And Elijah looking straight into the camera, of course, gives the impression that his eyes are on you no matter what angle you're at. I used to keep my "Bookends" album in the front of my LP's because Paul Simon's eyes would follow me around the room--looking straight at the camera will do that (ah, the pleasures lost with the coming of CD's--their covers just aren't big enough :p ).

Amid all the posts, I don't remember where this was, but didn't someone mention the type of shot where Elijah's chin and neck look the same width? I think the following pic was the one that got the most "no neck" remarks from people--it's also something of an example (although not the most extreme one) of what I was saying about his nose almost disappearing when shot straight from the front:

http://www.imagemagician.com/images/tgshaw/Previous movies/protection-crop.jpg

Hmmm... Individual tastes certainly differ. I've always thought the straight-from-the-front party shots were too feminine. Not that they aren't beautiful--they all are! But seeing the analysis of the hard/soft, masculine/feminine features definitely makes sense there (besides the camera angle, for some reason his hair's always looked more "styled" to me there than in most shots, which IMVHO adds to the feminine look).

I've picked out a few Bumblebee caps that I think have a nice masculine/feminine quotient. IMHO, they use Elijah's chin to give him a good masculine appearance without... ahem... "looking funny." I guess they're all from basically the same angle--would they be #2's? (He's doing a bit of low-level flirting with Janeane Garofalo in the first one.)

http://www.imagemagician.com/images/tgshaw/Previous movies/cap1995-crop.jpg

http://www.imagemagician.com/images/tgshaw/Previous movies/cap2015-crop.jpg

http://www.imagemagician.com/images/tgshaw/Previous movies/cap2120-crop.jpg

My own candidate for "miracle of creation" goes to a pic that's been my favorite since well before FotR came out, and never even made it into the movie. I don't know if it has to do with camera angles--I suppose it does to some extent--but it's positively the most "Elvish" picture of Frodo I've seen:

http://www.imagemagician.com/images/tgshaw/Previous movies/usatoday-frodo.jpg

----------

And since I've never seen Pulp Fiction, and hope to spend the rest of my life in that condition, thanks for the definitions ;) .

Lovely Bumblebee caps, TG! That second one... let's just say that I couldn't rightclicksave it fast enough. :D Lovely how the light is hitting his features from below rather than from above, as is normally the case. It gives him an almost ethereal glow.

And while we're talking about beautiful shots, I'm surprised that no one has mentioned the one from the EDVD Passing of the Wood Elves scene (the one Elve has on her splash page). The first time I saw that picture I couldn't speak. Talk about looking "Elvish!" And the lighting and atmosphere... also one of my very favorite additions to the film. I personally don't think it should ever have been cut out, but I'm so glad it's there now! Also camera angel #2, right?

Whew, I love this thread!! :) You all have such interesting insights. I must admit, however, that I suspect ulterior motives in the continuous posting of Frolijah's features, no matter HOW they get analyzed! ;) Not that I am complaining, although it does make it hard to scroll down the page.

I find the camera angel discussion very interesting for the way it helps explain why EW/FB looks so different in different shots. Utterly convincing analysis, erendis. I am not so sure about the masculine/feminine labels assigned to different features, but tg, your discussion about how certain features tend to be played down at different angles and in different lighting conditions is very illuminating. Maeg: I had seen that production shot before, but hadn't figured out to which point in the film it referred. Thank you!:cool:

Bunnie, I love that Elves Shot of Frodo too. AND the way Elwood delivers the line, "never to return" in the SE DVD. Sigh...

Also from the SE DVD, the American Library Association has created posters and bookmarks of Frodo in the tree reading (for their reading promotion campaign.) I'm getting one. If you go to http://alastore.ala.org/ and look under Sci/Fi and Fantasy characters you can see why! :)

And Carly: I must confess to a similar reaction to EW's recommendations for films. I admire his taste, and so I have rented not a few movies that he praised. (Try Waiting for Guffman, for a laugh and a half.) I loved Run, Lola, Run, and Franka was amazing in it. I just saw The Bourne Identity, only because I wanted to see her performance, and I was impressed again. Amelie is suuuch a lovely movie...

I have also checked out specific records that EW has praised in print; again, because I like his taste. The man knows whereof he speaks....

Hmm, Bumblebee screencaps...maybe I'll run down to blockbuster!

:o

Maeglian, to answer to your question about Ash wed, yes, I think he was miscast. I'm suprised Ed picked him. Next to Rosario D. he seems even younger - if her role had been filled by a much younger, or more importantly, a younger-looking girl, it would have been more believable. But she's very mature and womanish-looking; granted, her character could have aged and matured in the three years since they had married, especially after having a baby. EW's just too lightweight character-wise in the midst of all the crusty New York Irish character actors who populate this film, and doesn't seem like someone who grew up in that milieu. His performance also lacks direction and energy - and knowing he just came off the LOTR project, I see him as a bit disoriented and drained of energy, even amateurish, almost like he hadn't found his acting feet again. Under the right circumstances he could have been capable of much better. But like I said before, some of his miscasting, as I see it, could have been alleviated by adjusting the script, if Ed really wanted him that badly for the role. There's one scene where they're sitting side by side in the car, where their profiles are quite similar-looking, but still, EW is not the ideal foil for Ed, and they don't really seem connected to each other as brothers - again, the script was deficient in providing a sense of their family background, parents, etc. Maybe some rehearsal time would have helped (EW only worked 8 days on the film; the whole shoot was 20 days. Ed says they couldn't afford projection dailies, tried to use video dailies, and then gave up on those. That's unfortunate, because the projection dailies would have really shown up the deficiencies in the performance; on the other hand they couldn't afford to go back and reshoot anyway. This was a real "skin of the teeth" project) In the commentary, Ed uses the phrase "luckily for me" when describing his agent's suggestion of Elijah for the role - I wonder why. Does it mean he was glad to get a "name" actor who was willing to take the role in a low-budget/SAG minimum project - or was he actually happy with how the casting worked out.
I'll be back in a month or two if/when more people have seen AW and want to discuss it. Right now this thread has taken on a sensibility I don't care for. Really not my scene. Cheers everyone.

Originally posted by Wild Goose
...His performance also lacks direction and energy - and knowing he just came off the LOTR project, I see him as a bit disoriented and drained of energy, even amateurish, almost like he hadn't found his acting feet again. Under the right circumstances he could have been capable of much better.
That certainly fits what he said in that recent interview where he talked about his [depression might be too strong a word?] after LotR.
I'll be back in a month or two if/when more people have seen AW and want to discuss it.
Mine's been on order for quite some time, but won't get sent out until it's officially released on the 18th (and I didn't pay extra for fast delivery :o ). So it'll be a couple of weeks--but when it arrives, it should have my DVD of The Ice Storm with it. I think Mikey's an incredibly interesting character, and I'm looking forward to getting a little deeper into that movie than I've been able to with "just" the video.

I used to keep my "Bookends" album in the front of my LP's because Paul Simon's eyes would follow me around the room

You actually wanted PS's eyes on you as you walked around the room. I'd find that a bit too eerie for my tastes. Most of my CDs and posters are positioned so they can't follow me around the room - imagine Frodo or Paul Simon watching me get dressed every morning - that's something that they just should see :D ;)

The Ice Storm is on Irish television this week, so I'm looking forward to my next viewing. I must admit that I didn't like the film as a whole the first time I saw it, but I did like the kid's part of the story a lot better than the adults. Anyway, if I can record Flipper off the tv as a keepsake, I can sure record The Ice Storm too!

I have to say that I like Elijah's taste in movies, but though I have tried, for the most part his taste in music is just too far removed from my own for me to trust his judgement in that case.

Erendis, et al - love the "angle" discussion. Not sure I totally understand everything, but at least we get to see some yummy Frolijah pictures :)

Hullo all! I'm quite new to the boards, though I've lurked for a while (and sincerely enjoyed reading all your past discussions! :D). Is there anything I should know? Besides the "no swooning" rule, which I am well aware of and appreciate! ;)

Ariel, you might know me from ff, and I'm so glad to see someone familiar here! It's always nice to find a fellow writer. :)

tg, I've been an admirer of your site and essays for months now, and I'm glad to be able to chat with you!

That's about everyone I know -- or everyone I recognize, anyway -- and I look forward to getting to know the rest of you better! :p

Tathar -- let me be the first to welcome you to our Faculty! WELCOME! :) Very, very glad that you've delurked! (what took you so long? ;) ) Come, sit and be comfortable! What's your favourite movie? Shall we launch instantly into an appreciative discussion of tg's multiple caps of the sword <ahem> on Weathertop?

Question for the Faculty. There's a great EW interview at SciFi, which I don't think we've discussed yet? I could post the interview here, but it's a looooong one. What does everyone think? Maybe I post one part a day or something?

Originally posted by Vita S-B
I must admit, however, that I suspect ulterior motives in the continuous posting of Frolijah's features, no matter HOW they get analyzed!

*gasp*! Are you implying that there's gratuitous posting of pics? Here? In the Faculty? Why, I never! :D

For surely if there were a topic such as "The Study of Downward Glances From Three Angles" we would need ample visual aid to ... erh ... well ... look at. Study. Carefully. Without bias. Yes. Right.

:D

http://www.classicxf.com/images/TTT/emynmuil/circles054.jpg

http://www.classicxf.com/images/TTT/emynmuil/circles059.jpg

http://www.classicxf.com/images/TTT/emynmuil/circles061.jpg

http://www.classicxf.com/images/TTT/blackgate/149blackgate.jpg

http://www.classicxf.com/images/FOTR/extended1/063evshire.jpg

caps from http://www.classicxf.com/images/FOTR

Greetings, Tathar (wow--first post!)--Welcome to the Faculty Lounge--Just watch out for that body in the closet :D !
Originally posted by Tathar
Is there anything I should know?
The A.#1 Fundamental Rule of Message Boards: If you want to add something to a post, use the edit button instead of double posting--it saves bandwidth (whatever that is :confused: ) and keeps the mods happy :) . And... that's about it.

As you may have noticed, this thread is a bit different from some in that there are usually a few discussions going on at the same time--so feel free to jump into the ones that interest you without feeling obligated to get "deeply involved" in the ones that don't. Or start one yourself if there's something you want to bring up; anything about Elwood is always on-topic here as long as it's not gossipy, slanderous, or... well, what you said ;) . Have fun!

Edit: ainon beat me to the post. Must be the fastest pic poster in the Pacific. Re:
Question for the Faculty. There's a great EW interview at SciFi, which I don't think we've discussed yet? I could post the interview here, but it's a looooong one. What does everyone think? Maybe I post one part a day or something?
If the interview's online, is it on a site that's acceptable for linking? If that won't work, posting parts of it separately sounds like a good solution--especially since that way you could skip any "we've-heard-the-same-answer-to-that-question-50-times" sections in favor of more interesting parts?

---------------------

Edit #2:

There was a UPS notice stuck on my mailbox when I got home last night, which I hope means the Huck Finn DVD is waiting in the office for me. I love Bumblebee, but it's not a treasure trove of acting screencaps. Barney's main characteristic seems to be a lowered response to things, which is absolutely true to the character (in both the book and the movie), but is hard to show: "Oh, look, here's Barney not responding to..." :rolleyes: Huck as a character, of course, doesn't have this problem. :)

(I'm not completely writing off Bumblebee; I think there could be some good pics to use to contrast with Elijah's acting in other roles--but I don't have quite enough research time these days to go hunting for them. If one "hits me over the head," I'll bring it up.)

Good Eru! This thread has been blazing since I last checked in!

Thanks for completing my homework assignment, erendis! :p My brain is incapable of formulating a coherent explanation right now. Besides, you do it soooo much better.:k

Am greatly enjoying all the (non-gratuitous) photos of Frolijah.;)

Wow, thanks so much for the warm welcome! I feel at home already. You're all wonderful! :k

tg, thanks for the heads-up! It's nice to find a board where there are, like you said, several discussions going at one time... Not that I have anything to bring up (yet!), but I don't feel so shy of jumping in to others as I do on most boards. :)

ainon, thanks for making me feel so welcome, so quickly! And of course any Elwood discussion is fine with me -- and certainly we can't praise (or talk about!) tg's pics enough! :rolleyes:

Originally posted by ainon
*gasp*! Are you implying that there's gratuitous posting of pics? Here? In the Faculty? Why, I never!

Eee gad (anyone for figuring out had to spell that?! :rolleyes: ), gratuitous studying/posting pf 'Lijah pics?? :eek: No such thing. The pics are merely for study and, as ainon says, without bias. :o Of course, most of the discussions on camera angles are way over my head (though very enjoyable to read anyway!), but am I discouraged? Nope. It helps my descriptions in writing better, at any rate. :D

Just out of curiosity, is there anyone else out there from the South? Anyone?? If that meeting is still being planned, I can think of no better place (well, besides New Zealand, anyway) ...

Hi Tathar :) - so nice to see a new face...er...well, you know, cyber persona whatever.

Wildgoose- thankyou for the kind thoughts. I haven't seen hide nor hair of Ash Wednesday here yet but its bound to come in a nation obssessed with EW. Right?? Right??? *hope*

I'm not surprised that tg was told the downcast look was a flattering photo shot. Now that I'm aware of camera angles and head positions I see its very widely used. Amazing i never noticed it before. Maybe if I get someone to photograph me like that...?
nah, give it up Prim. You is what you is. :p

Welcome Tathar!!! :)



I'm still upset over the Oscar nom, got up at 5am this morning for the announcement only to hear PJ being snubbed. :mad: No director, no adapted screenplay, no score, no cinematography, no costume!!!! I know we got the Picture nod and all the 6-nods-are-enough-for-setting-up-for-next-year's-sweep talk, but still...http://members.lycos.co.uk/delubycc/smilies/angry.gif http://members.lycos.co.uk/delubycc/smilies/banghead.gif http://members.lycos.co.uk/delubycc/smilies/dontcare.gif http://members.lycos.co.uk/delubycc/smilies/bawling.gif


Anyway, back OT, I brought some more Huck Finn Froshadowing pics:

http://members.lycos.co.uk/delubycc/huckfinn12.jpg
http://members.lycos.co.uk/delubycc/huckfinn12fro.jpg


http://members.lycos.co.uk/delubycc/huckfinn26.jpg
http://members.lycos.co.uk/delubycc/huckfinn26froa.jpg
http://members.lycos.co.uk/delubycc/huckfinn26frob.jpg





The interview in Sci-Fi mag (Feb. issue):
Yeah, that's a quite long interview. I think it's ok to link to scifi.com, is it?
http://www.scifi.com/scifimag/february2003/transcripts/index.html

deluby, wow, those are great Froshadowing pics! Huck Finn is one of my personal favorites of his -- as has been pointed out, add curly hair and he looks just like a little hobbit lad! Pics 3, 4 and 5 are especially similar...same facial expression even. What an amazing actor he is/was, even at that age!

Aren't those Oscar nominations a disappointment? PJ definately deserves a best director, and I was hoping that Elijah would be recognized too. (sigh) :mad: But was Andy Serkis nominated for Supporting Actor? I can't remember.

Speaking of Andy Serkis, and I'm not sure if this has been discussed before (forgive me if it has!), but has anyone noticed how Gollum/Smeagol occasionally looks vaguely similar to Frodo? Facially, I mean, and especially the eyes. I have a few pictures that demonstrate this, if anyone would like me to post them? :D

Oh, and thanks, Prim, for the welcome! :k Pleasure to... er ... meet you. :rolleyes:

Originally posted by Tathar
Aren't those Oscar nominations a disappointment? PJ definately deserves a best director, and I was hoping that Elijah would be recognized too. (sigh) :mad: But was Andy Serkis nominated for Supporting Actor? I can't remember.
I started a thread on the Oscars ("Awards?") over in the Two Towers section of the Trilogy forum, just because no one had, although it was obvious within the first two posts that I knew less about the subject than everyone else!! If anyone wants more discussion on that, here's the page:

http://www.khazaddum.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1839

No, Andy Serkis wasn't nominated, and he was the only long-shot I think, for an acting nomination for TTT (too much of an ensemble piece for the Oscars, although I'm glad it stayed true to the book in that aspect in spite of it). There'd been some question as to whether he'd be eligible, because he wasn't technically on-screen--something the rules might have to deal with in the future, but when you're the first one to do it... One of the things I liked about that SciFi interview is how much credit Elijah gives to Andy for those scenes. I'd seen him say a lot of the same things before, but in a longer interview like that one he had a chance to emphasize it even more.

Speaking of Andy Serkis, and I'm not sure if this has been discussed before (forgive me if it has!), but has anyone noticed how Gollum/Smeagol occasionally looks vaguely similar to Frodo? Facially, I mean, and especially the eyes. I have a few pictures that demonstrate this, if anyone would like me to post them? :D
Yes, I think it's been noted, but not with accompanying visual aides, so certainly those would be welcome :) . There was one reviewer who, shortly after TTT was released, said after seeing the second movie he could better understand Elijah's being cast because his huge eyes and "clammy, white skin" made him look so much like Gollum. IIRC, I said at the time that the reviewer needed to learn the difference between "clammy" and "luminescent." :rolleyes:

Great interview. Thanks to ainon for the idea and Deluby for the link. I pulled my first Elijah quote for my sig from it--had thought about a couple of others but was always "beaten to the punch" by someone else.

And it may have brought me the closest to swooning for EJW that I've ever been: OMG! An actor who uses the word "germane" in an interview :cool: !!

Anime Frodo, anyone? ;)

http://mdn.mainichi.co.jp/image/200302/11/20030211p2a00m000016000c.jpg


Thanks for the SciFi mag link, deluby (and ditto all you said and gif-ed about the Oscars. plus, how dare they thumb their Academy noses at Andrew Lesnie! :mad: ). Yep, I think that's the same interview; I saved it around the time TTT came out (but forgot to save the link as well :o ). I think some folks might have missed it at the time because it was labelled as spoiler-filled. It's one of his best interviews so far, IMHO, and it's really all about just Frodo. :)

I was flipping through the Premiere Movie Mag at a newsstall and came across Viggo Mortensen's letter to the editor, correcting them on something they had quoted him as saying in the cover story they'd done on him. He hadn't said what the Premiere writer had him saying; he'd said something else. It wasn't that big a deal in a way, but I really admired VM for sending in that letter to set things straight. Most folks probably would have just fumed in silence.

Then, I flipped through a teen mag that boasted interviews with EW and Orlando Bloom. My rant: the EW interview consisted of questions allegedly sent in by teen readers, the answers were very obviously answers EW had given in an assortment of interviews circa FotR. Every single EW reply was plagiarised. Fortunately the replies were plucked verbatim and complete, so there weren't any cases where EW might have really been saying something tongue-in-cheek only to have the 'answer' rearranged in some way that it would sound either stupid or plain defamatory.

Now, I know these things happen, but it bugged me big time because this is the worst example I've seen for EW. Granted no harm was done in this one, and I'm sure there're worse things out there which do make him out as an idiot or worse; but still. Unlike VM, I doubt EW can actually do anything about plagiarised interview material. :rolleyes:


Thanks for the additional Huck froshadowings, deluby. I love that first one; the fact that that Frodo scene is one of my favourites has nothing to do with that opinion. :D In the second set, where he's looking all the way up like that -- it's almost as though he's still the same person somehow; the kid/adult contrast doesn't seem so obvious. Btw, could you please post that Frodo moment after Faramir says "Then it is forfeit. Release them." It's one the most wonderful, indescribable looks of gratitude I've ever seen on screen.

Can't wait to see what tgshaw caps will appear from Huck Finn. ;) Btw, everyone who has watched Huck Finn, here's something to discuss: just how the hey did Huck Finn get out from below deck, while all that water was gushing in and drowning everyone else?


Tathar, looks like you're settling in comfortably. Please do share your research pics! You're absolutely right. No bias whatsoever in images posted. Never mind that I'd been waiting for ages to get a fine enough excuse to post pics of SE Frodo up in that tree. Did I say excuse? I meant research project.

http://www.classicxf.com/images/FOTR/extended1/060evshire.jpg
http://www.classicxf.com/images/FOTR/extended1/070evshire.jpg

Strictly research. Because didn't EW spend like, a whole movie building a treehouse? And now he's sitting on that nice branch on that nice tree. There's that Froshadowing thing too, see, in addition to all the downward glances. ;) :D Btw, I think it's spelt 'Egad'?

edit: From www.warofthering.net

Let's start with a few possibilities for best actor:

Elijah Wood, Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers. Most Rings fans had a feeling the flick would get snubbed this year; maybe Wood can snatch a nod in 2004. Seriously, it takes a lot more than make-up to convince the audience you're a Hobbit, and I can't think of anyone (well, aside from that Simon Birch kid) who might have done it better.

source www.usatoday.com



Eid Mubarak to all Muslim KD-ers and lurkers!

Oh yes, please let's discuss that Scifi interview. Thanks for posting the link deluby. Elwood's insights into why source material has to be changed (from book to film) are very interesting. We could debate that topic for a long time...

I must admit the quality of answers he gives is directly related to the quality of the questions he is asked. This interviewer has posed some good ones, and then apparently just turned on the tape recorder for EW's responses. Whereas some of the uh, more 'popular' type questions must be incredibly boring for these guys. I mean does ANYONE need to ask about the tatoos ever again? And the laziness of interviewers/writers who just steal quotes from other articles--yet get paid for their own piece--well, that just makes me :mad: .

ainon, that is a scary anime! The other pics are :cool: .

tg: those Froshadowings are wonderful! I still think Peter Jackson studied EW's earlier films before he blocked out this one.

Tathar--welcome to the lounge!

Can't wait for the chance to see Ash Wednesday!

But the bad news of the day (aside from the Oscar noms, but don't get me started) is that Try Seventeen is now listed as "Projected June 2003" at Videoeta.com. What is up with Hollywood, anyway????

Originally posted by Vita S-B
tg: those Froshadowings are wonderful! I still think Peter Jackson studied EW's earlier films before he blocked out this one.
Wish I could take credit, but I haven't had a chance to even open up the Huck Finn DVD yet--those are from Deluby :) .

But the bad news of the day (aside from the Oscar noms, but don't get me started) is that Try Seventeen is now listed as "Projected June 2003" at Videoeta.com. What is up with Hollywood, anyway????
Any idea whether that's a "projected" theatrical release or video/DVD?

ooopps!! my bad! Thanks to deluby for the most recent froshadowings. :k

But now I've seen tg's Frodo for the day! :p

IIRC, the videoeta info about Try Seventeen was for theatrical release. Let's hope so...

If you go to this page at videodata and scroll down it DOES say Try Seventeen!!!! Please, Hollywood, please!!!!!
Try Seventeen (http://videoeta.com/month_theaters.html?month=6&year=2003)

Don't the promoters know it will make back it's probably meager production costs the first weekend just because of Elijah?

Peeking into the Lounge very quickly to say:

Welcome, Tathar! :)


Thanks for the fabulous Froshadowings, Deluby.


Uhm.... that anime cover........ poor Sean Astin, was my first thought!


About the Oscars: I half expected a supporting actor nod for Viggo Mortensen, because I think he really deserves it for TTT. (Hope this isn't considered heresy among us EJW fans?! ) But other things than acting impacts these matters, of course. The great mystery to me is how TTT could be nominated for Editing :confused: but not for Costume. :mad:


About Gollum's looks: it's pretty obvious they modelled his eyes to look somewhat similar to Elijah's, isn't it? Both the general look and that blue colour. I think it's good that they did so, too. Serves to underline the similar background and heritage, and the possible similar fates of the two...... either Frodo can be corrupted and destroyed, or Gollum can be saved. For non-readers this matter is very much hanging in the balance at the end of TTT. (Gollum's eyes weren't blue in the glimpse we got in FotR, in Moria, were they?)

Although I *was* more than a little miffed when a LotR-interested friend of mine informed me in all earnestness that in fact, Elijah Wood's eyes in LotR had been altered by means of CGI to become larger and more blue and thus more equal to Gollum's. :eek: I didn't find out what the original *source* for *that* story was, though.


I'll read the Scifi interview asap. I have far too little time on my hands these days.

Bye for now!

Originally posted by Vita S-B
But now I've seen tg's Frodo for the day! :p
...which I'll never be able to see again without thinking of Dom's, "Here comes the money shot!" :D :D

IIRC, the videoeta info about Try Seventeen was for theatrical release. Let's hope so...
Yep, the link Hobmom posted clearly says theatrical release. June--so a summer movie, eh? Lighter, more fun...

I clicked over and read the USA Today column that ainon linked to. The columnist's point was that "the Academy" ignores younger actors, and to prove it she listed 20 roles by under-30's that she thought were Oscar-worthy. (She said the average age of the nominees this year is 49; only one is under 30.) Besides Elijah, others whose names have graced this thread ;) were Franka Potente for The Bourne Identity and Tobey Maguire for Spiderman (she admits that getting an Oscar for playing a superhero is pretty unlikely).

She even lists a few who would be classified as "kids." Wouldn't it have been great if Elijah had been nominated for The Ice Storm, or even The War? They probably would have had a hard time deciding what award to give him for the second one--he's listed above Kevin Costner so would seemingly be the lead. Wouldn't that have set Hollywood on its ear :p ?

---and IMHO, it's anime Legolas that's really scary :eek: !

Originally posted by ainon
Btw, could you please post that Frodo moment after Faramir says "Then it is forfeit. Release them." Sure, here they are:

"I think at last we understand one another, Frodo Baggins."
http://members.lycos.co.uk/delubycc/osgunderstand.jpg


"You know the laws of our country, the laws of your father. If you let them go, your life will be forfeit."
http://members.lycos.co.uk/delubycc/osgforfeit.jpg


"Then it is forfeit. Release them."
http://members.lycos.co.uk/delubycc/osgrelease.jpg


That one is one of my favorite shot as well. I was gonna put it in the camera angle collage but I think I ended up forgeting it. Might do a gif of it later though.



RE Oscar:
From all the speculations on ROTK's chance I've read on various boards(oscarwatch, goldderby, etc), none of them mentioned EW as a possible Best Actor or Best Supporting Actor contender. Most of them think Sir Ian had his chance last year and Viggo might be up for BA and Sean Astin may have a chance for BSA. I'm quite miffed that while most of the major casts are worthy of a nom, only very few might have a chance. http://members.lycos.co.uk/delubycc/smilies/mad.gif But then again, we haven't seen ROTK yet, who knows what happens a year from now.
Grrr, Oscar so needs an Ensemble category. http://members.lycos.co.uk/delubycc/smilies/grumpy.gif

Wow, deluby, thanks for those shots! Besides the facial expressions, which are perfect, IMHO there's also a good look at Frodo's changing physical condition with the dark circles, etc., under his eyes, especially in the second one. (BTW, I agree about the ensemble category.)

-----------

Huck Finn research report: I started out watching for froshadowings, and caught some during the early scenes--not having watched the movie for quite some time, though, I didn't "catch" them as screencaps and planned to go back later and do that (which I still plan to do). I did get a few but haven't gotten them ready to post yet--that would have meant tearing myself away from the movie and the commentary :rolleyes: .

But, before long, watching for froshadowings became secondary to watching the acting. That didn't surprise me too much, as this is the movie where Elijah's acting first blew me away. But now that I know more what to look for, and have a clearer picture (the lighting on the DVD is a vast improvement over the VHS--at least over mine), and can stop, backup, freeze-frame... OMG! The scene that I've said destined me to be an Elijah Wood fan (where Huck is fishing with the plantation owner and his son, but is thinking about Jim) is even more amazing on the DVD, only partly due to much better lighting.

Remember when I said not too long ago that watching Elijah in his younger roles would be important to the microexpression theory? (Well, okay, even if you don't... :p ) At ten years old we've got half-blinks all over the place (I stopped taking caps of them because there were so many), subtle eyebrow work, microexpressions--and, I swear, I even saw a case of nostril acting. The microexpressions are a bit harder to catch because the "baby fat" hides the little muscles on his forehead and beside his nose, but the effect is still visible even if the muscles themselves aren't (I don't think I would have noticed that aspect at all if it hadn't been for having seen it more visibly in his young adult work).

Sorry I don't have any screencaps to share yet :o . As it is, I made it only about halfway through the movie. I'll try to get some froshadowings and single shots of facial expressions to post here, but like FotR there are series of caps from this movie that will probably have to go on my website because of size considerations--yes, he really was that good at ten.

deluby, thank you! :k tg's said it all about those shots, and I shall now eagerly (and shamelessly) await the gif. ;) It keeps blowing me away how much EW accomplishes without ever saying a single word, and this scene has to be one of the best examples of that.

And tg - can't wait for your Huck Finn caps! Not just caps, you say, but many series (what's the plural for series?) of caps? :cool: You're making me want to go and immediately rewatch my DVD now! I know how good he was, but I hadn't been watching for microexpressions. I hope you'll find time for the commentary too, tg. It really is a great listen. :)

ps. Looks like the Japanese Premiere. So not fair. Not that I minded having Viggo Mortensen on the English version cover ... I mean, Viggo's Aragorn has been making me swoon very effectively of late ... ;)

http://maggiebear.crosswinds.net/misc87/misc861.jpg

I had to dig through that stack of movie magazines I have to check the cover of the Entertainment Weekly I bought some months back. It's not quite the same picture as the Japanese premiere one, and the E.W. one is definitely better, I think. How fortunate anyway that that particular promotion shoot was done *before* EJW lost his fight with the lawn mower (That's local slang here for doing something extreme with your hair, btw. :rolleyes: )

Here is the "release them" gif (the third cap from my last post).

http://members.lycos.co.uk/delubycc/gif.gif: http://members.lycos.co.uk/delubycc/ttt07.gif
410*272, 1.6mb.
And a smaller version of that (300*199, 943kb):
http://members.lycos.co.uk/delubycc/ttt07b.gif


*anxiously waiting for tg's Huck Finn caps* ;)
It's been a while since I watched that film. :o
I hear amazon.com calling...:p

Deluby--Each frame of that gif is a treasure, Frodo going through gratitude, profound relief, and determination to get on with the job (and Sam adjusting his pack through the whole thing :D ).

Here are a couple of fairly easy froshadowings from Huck Finn--because they're mostly situational. Although IMHO Elijah himself is a pretty good match in them, the camera angles are completely different (and the weapon varies in this first pair):

http://www.imagemagician.com/images/tgshaw/outtakes/cap2397-85.jpg

http://www.imagemagician.com/images/tgshaw/outtakes/capcrop2786-85.jpg

In these, I cracked up over the fact that he's "buttoning up" in each of them :) :

http://www.imagemagician.com/images/tgshaw/outtakes/capcrop2352-85.jpg

http://www.imagemagician.com/images/tgshaw/outtakes/capcrop2757-85.jpg

The following isn't a "fro"shadowing, and I don't have a cap from TTT to put next to it, but I think it's pretty obvious ;) , down to the pointing finger and the location of the "Great River":

http://www.imagemagician.com/images/tgshaw/outtakes/cap2157-85.jpg

I've almost got too much material and too little time, especially with a really busy weekend ahead! But I'll try to gradually get some less obvious shots.

I did have a laugh over a "PJ"shadowing while listening to the commentary :p . The writer/director told how he'd been initially brushed off when he presented his script, being told that Huck Finn had been done a dozen times. His reply had been that it had never been done "from the book," and he talked eloquently about how wonderful the book was and how no movie until this one had followed the book. Well, for anyone who's both read the book and seen this movie... :rolleyes: Depends on your point of view, I guess... He can probably claim that as much for this movie as PJ can for TTT. :p There's an essay on my site about the differences (over a year old, so some may have read it): http://www.members.tripod.com/afewwords_tgs/id75.htm .

Which reminds me that there are a couple of screencap pages I don't think I've posted the URLs for. One is Packing (http://www.members.tripod.com/afewwords_tgs/id143.htm) and the second is Packing--That Shirt! (http://www.members.tripod.com/afewwords_tgs/id144.htm). The second one was a request, IIRC, so enjoy.

--------------

Edit: Just remembered something else from the commentary, and since mine's still the last post...

The Huck Finn movie was shot entirely on location around Natchez, Mississippi. The director mentioned one reviewer who complained that the "matte paintings of the Mississippi River" in the movie were poorly done. Of course, there were no matte paintings--it was the Mississippi River! Reminded me of the review Bridget mentioned that said if Elijah couldn't act Frodo's emotions without CGI, they should have gotten an actor who could--when, of course, they didn't use CGI with Elijah! Gees... sometimes you can be almost too good :rolleyes: .

A real difference between Huck Finn and LotR regarding special effects, though. There were absolutely no digital effects in Huck Finn (they were just coming into use at the time) and "on location" meant on location--not a single scene was done on a sound stage. The scene where the riverboat runs into Huck and Jim's raft was shot in a warehouse with about two feet of water (for the actors' safety--the director said you can sometimes get away with an adult actor getting hurt, but when you've got "a little kid" you have to be more careful :eek: -- [hmmm... especially if the "little kid's" mother is on set?]). All the other scenes in the movie were shot on real locations in and around Natchez, including the plantation manor, which makes an interesting comparison between the two pics above where Elijah is standing on a balcony, first of the real historic plantation house, and then of the just constructed and mostly painted Rivendell (of course, real historic elven enclaves from the Third Age are a bit hard to come by :p ).

deluby ... :k Thank you, so, so much. Once again tg's said it all, but for one thing:

Originally posted by tgshaw
(and Sam adjusting his pack through the whole thing :D ).

LOL! Actually Sam is smacking some Gondorian's hand off his shoulder. ;)


In these, I cracked up over the fact that he's "buttoning up" in each of them :)

That's a great one! I found myself going, "Aww" at the same time. Was there nothing that EW did on 'Huck Finn' that did not eventually lead him to Frodo? :D

Thanks, tg. Wonderful caps, and now that you've given us a little I'm sure you'll know that we'll want more! ;) :k

And many, many thanks for the URLs for those new Frodo caps. I agree with you re: the shirt scene. It is more desperate, when seen this way. The 'Packing: A Collection of Miscellany' page contains some of the loveliest Frodo shots from angles I hadn't seen before, btw. :) Is there any way for you to get that firm nod that Frodo does, when Gandalf reassuringly tells him, "Don't worry. He (Saruman) will know what to do."?

Can't wait for you to start with the cloak sequence. If there is one inanimate object that makes me swoon in the movies, it's Frodo's cloak. :D

A little bit off-topic but now that I remember it I better mention it: I love how during the beginning of the Forbidden Pool scene in TTT, we can see, from the way the cloak is pulled around his shoulders, that Frodo is cold and trying to wrap himself up to keep warm. Yet another little Frodomoment right out of the book. Which EW plays naturally. If there's one thing about that kid is that he keeps his movements natural and real. 'Course the downside to that is that we have to keep a close watch on him to make sure we're not missing anything!

Ah, managed to get right back on-topic after all. ;)

Originally posted by ainon
LOL! Actually Sam is smacking some Gondorian's hand off his shoulder. ;)
Well, gee, I guess I'll just have to go back and watch it again :p . Maybe I'll see it better when I have time to download the bigger version this weekend (thanks for that smaller version, though, deluby--at least I got to see it before I left for work today :) .)

Can't wait for you to start with the cloak sequence. If there is one inanimate object that makes me swoon in the movies, it's Frodo's cloak. :D
And there's another nice "turn" when Frodo faces Gandalf, who's been helping him put on the cloak--Those 180-degree turns show so many angles/expressions. I found someone's ;) avatar, too, when I slowed that bit down--hadn't been able to place it before.
(And I even like that they're in such a hurry that Gandalf just pops the cloak over Frodo's head instead of Frodo putting it on "normally"; reminds me of how I get dressed for work some mornings :p .)

Ah, managed to get right back on-topic after all. ;)
Hey, it all seemed on-topic to me :) !

"Firm nod," eh?

Great Huck Finn caps, tg, thanks!
Loved the caps on your website as well, especially the ones of the contrast between "But that will lead them here!" and "What must I do?".


Ainon, that Sam smacking Gondorian's hand off his shoulder part, I had few giggles over it while doing the gif, he's just...so sam. :p


One more thing, Newline has put up the New Year's Day Sam and Frodo poster in the official store as an exclusive (on sale for $15.95), just like the one last year with Gandalf and Frodo.
http://members.lycos.co.uk/delubycc/storyposter.jpg


Last, I posted these in the Harem but wanna share them here too:

Sleeping Beauty
http://members.lycos.co.uk/delubycc/gif.gif: http://members.lycos.co.uk/delubycc/sleep.gif
(500*270, 2.1mb)

A smaller version
http://members.lycos.co.uk/delubycc/sleepb.gif
(300*162, 826kb)


Also I did this one a couple weeks ago but never posted it:
"Just a Dream"
http://members.lycos.co.uk/delubycc/gif.gif: http://members.lycos.co.uk/delubycc/ttt05.gif
(350*268, 891kb)

Originally posted by deluby
I posted these in the Harem but wanna share them here too:

Thanks, deluby. I'm very slowly downloading them, but I think I can imagine what lovely treasures these'll be. :k Btw, Happy Chap Goh Mei! :) Do you get to celebrate in a big way there?


-----------------------

And since it is so quiet here, I'll post this interview I found sitting in my C:/My Documents. Once again I forgot the URL, but the filename is GreenCine.com. IIRC this was from the series of interviews with PJ & co plus selected cast that the site did when TTT came out.


The Next Reel
By Nina Rehfeld
December 18, 2002 - 3:00 AM PST

Frodo and Sam

Q: Fran Walsh said that two years after the shoot, it still never feels done.

Elijah Wood: It some ways, it feels like it never will be. But that's great. The sense that the work continues is actually great. When it came time to finish principle photography two years ago, it was such a sad experience. And very difficult for us. Exhausted as we were, we didn't want to let this great experience go. There was a separation anxiety. Obviously, next year, when we go back to New Zealand and then do the final press tour, that'll be it. Which is weird. We had an end already, but there'll be a final end, which'll be bizarre.

Q: Is it easy for you to fall back into being Frodo?

Yeah. I think it's only easy because of how long I spent with that
character. It puts an imprint on you that you can't easily get rid of. Part of that character will be with me for the rest of my life. So it's always been really easy to jump back in. Certainly, when you put the hobbit feet back on. The wig and the ears. It's always good to go back to New Zealand as well. I love New Zealand. It's like home.

Q: What kind of impact has being Frodo had on your life so far?

It's funny. The success of the film has certainly had an impact on me and my life, but I think that the experience [of making the film] has actually had more impact on me than anything else. Being in New Zealand for that length of time. Going on that journey and having that adventure that in many ways mirrored that of the book. Other than that, I've never been so recognizable in my life, being a part of something so massive. It's been different but not terrible. As much as that's increased, I still feel as though I go about my life in much the same way. Mainly out of an effort not to have something change my life so much. So I still go where I want to go and just deal with whatever attention that I get.

Q: It must be strange not being able to go anywhere without people calling attention to you. Because you look so much like Frodo.

Right. It's not totally strange. It's expected. I know how much people love the movies, how popular they are. It doesn't freak me out. I actually love it. I'll be out and people will yell out, "Frodo!"

Q: You must be hating it at some point.

No, really, I actually really enjoy it. I mean, look. A certain amount of attention can be overkill.

Q: But how about a constant association with a short little guy with hair on his feet?

It's great! See, I love the films just as much as everybody else does. I love it when people come up and express their interest in the movie. I can relate. I think that takes people aback, actually. They'll come up and go, "Oh, man, I love Frodo! And I love the films! The first movie was so great!" And I'm like, "Wait til you see the next film!" I share their excitement which, I think, freaks them out a little bit.

Q: Is that a copy of the ring you're wearing?

No, no. God, that would be slightly twisted, wouldn't it?

Q: Where is the ring?

It's at home. I've got it on the chain and everything in a box tucked away in my office. I haven't seen it in quite some time, actually.

Q: You get to keep it?

It was given to me as a gift by Peter and Fran. We had two sets of pick-ups off of the first film and the last time I was in New Zealand for the first movie, I went to their editing office to say goodbye. They said, "Oh, we've got a gift for you." They had a big box. I opened it up and there was a little box. And this little box was this really beautiful carved wooden box. And I said, "Oh, this is beautiful." And they said, "No, no. Look inside that box." So I opened it up and there was a pouch inside with the one ring. Which seemed kind of appropriate, that they would bestow the one ring on me. So I'll never actually be able to be rid of it.

Q: Is there now a superstition that will surround this ring that's inside your house?

No, no...

Q: But someone will try to steal it.

Yeah... Um, I'm moving to a new house now. At an undisclosed location. [laughs] But yeah, I know. I keep it very well-hidden.

Q: Any idea what some fans might give to have that ring?

It'd be pretty massive, wouldn't it? But you know, speaking of value. Some guy, somewhere in the world, decided to make an offer for something like $20,000 for a pair of used hobbit feet. During the process of making the movie, he made this offer. I don't know who he made it to; someone in the Weta workshop. "I will pay you $20,000 for a pair of used hobbit feet." The fact that they were supposed to be used kind of disgusted us all. "Why the **** would he want used hobbit feet?" All kind of nasty and wet and disgusting. But yeah, I imagine the ring would go for a lot.

Q: In the year that has passed between the first and this movie, and given the rise of the Internet and how much fans compete with each other about how much they know about each movie, have you seen anything where you thought, "God, look at them! They've gone out of their bloody minds!"?

Well, there's quite a lot of fan fiction out there. I only know a very small degree of what all goes on. On the Internet, people will create these fantasy stories with these characters. Some of them have a really odd sexual nature, some of them carry on the legacy of the story, and then there are the fans of the writers of fan fiction and it gets bizarre. There are some odd practices with fanatical people.

Q: Are there also interesting recommendations?

I never really consulted fans on what their view of the character was or how I should play him. The only reaction I heard initially was when I was cast. They announced it on Harry Knowles's site, on Ain't It Cool News. And maybe half of the fan reaction was awful. I'm mean, it was serious, like, "Kill me now! This movie's going to suck! How could this loser be Frodo? It's
over!" You know, freaking out. And then there were others, like, "No, he's cool. He's going to be fine." It was hilarious. So I went to New Zealand thinking I might not have the full support of the fans. But it didn't really matter. I knew that I was entering something that would be completely separate from all of that.

Q: Have you ever wanted a mission as large as Frodo's in your real life?

Not quite. In some ways, the responsibility of carrying out the character in the way that I was meant to, of handling that in the process of that journey was somewhat similar to what Frodo had to go through. Certainly not as dark and not nearly as profound, but similar. I don't think anybody wants to have a journey quite like that in their own life. As much as something like that changes you for the good in the end, by the end of it, Frodo is so scarred
and so messed up by the experience, I don't know if I would want that.

Q: He sort of steps aside and makes room for the other characters in this movie.

Frodo starts to lose his strength and his ability to carry on alone. Sam really picks up the slack and becomes stronger for us than in the first movie. And obviously, Gollum, just in terms of introducing him, sort of takes center stage as well. His journey and his relationship with Frodo and Sam is an integral part of the next film.

Q: Do you feel upstaged by a computer-generated character?

I don't feel that at all. The fact that the character is so brilliant and has come across so well is such a relief! There's a fear associated with a character that's completely animated and it turned out so well -- so well, in fact, that you almost forget that he's computer-animated. That's the true achievement. But no, I don't really think of it in terms of who gets more screen time.

Q: He was your favorite in the book.

Yes, absolutely.

Q: Why?

When I first read about Gollum, it was in The Hobbit, in the famous "Riddles in the Dark" chapter. It's still one of my favorite chapters in literature. Because of how mysterious the character was. And because of the way that he speaks, this odd schizophrenic, multiple-personality disorder that he has. This "us" and "we". And he speaks in riddles in that part of that book. So I was amazed and intrigued by the mystery of this character. The more you learn about Gollum, the more sympathetic he becomes. That's an important part of Gollum for Frodo, this hope that there is still good left somewhere in this wretched creature. If that can be extracted, then there's hope for him, too. There's a desperation in their relationship as well, trying to understand what the effects of this ring really are.

Continuation of interview with EW, plus the same interviewer's bit with Sean Astin too. He talks about EW, so ... ;)


Q: One of the projects you've done in the meantime is Try Seventeen, which took Franka Potente away from Germany, where I come from.

EW: Oh, you're from Germany!

Q: Yes. What in your mind is her appeal to an American audience? Also, to you personally, because you guys were in a relationship, as far as I know.

EW: Yeah... as far as you know. [laughs] What is her appeal to an American audience? I guess I can only speak from my perspective. I saw her in Run Lola Run and flipped out. I thought she was awesome in that movie. Not to mention that the movie was brilliant as well. But she really stole that film and carried that movie. There's a real strength about Franka that I think is intriguing. And a confidence in her that I love and really comes through in her performances. But at the same time, there's a vulnerability. You see that in things like The Princess and the Warrior, which I thought she was also brilliant in. But yeah, I think that's part of the appeal. And she's beautiful as well. Beautiful.


------------------------------------------------------


Q: Have you read some of these theories about a gay relationship between Frodo and Sam?

Sean Astin: Yeah. I've seen some things on the Internet. I have my own feeling about it. This is a very powerful love bond between two males where there's the absence of eros. [That reading] doesn't honor the historical context that Tolkien was writing from in terms of the First World War and English officers and their enlisted men. It also cheapens the purity of love in some way. Now, I wouldn't presume to deny any viewer or reader the right to experience the story or the characters in any way that is meaningful to them. But as far as my interpretation is concerned, no. Which is not to say that Elijah's not a good kisser, but still. [laughs] But no, I don't think it's a homoerotic relationship.

Q: Ian McKellen says that anything is possible.

Ian McKellen wants anything to be possible. [laughs] The thing is, he may well be right. He's a lot older and smarter than I am. He did direct me to the passage in the book where Sam comes to the bedside of Frodo and holds his hand. He said, "Audiences will want to be seeing that!"

Q: What was your own relationship to Gollum when you read the book?

He and Treebeard were my favorite characters. I think all the characters in the book are kind of a litmus test for who you are as a reader and what you're capable of sympathizing with. I found him a totally compelling, totally charismatic, empathetic character. To me, he was far and away the most interesting character in the book, while I thought Treebeard was the most important character in the book. I mean, Frodo and Sam and all those people are fine and everything, but those two were my favorites. Of all the characters in the book, Gollum's the one who keeps me connected to the plot. You know, there's so much poetry and so much history and military strategy and philosophy, there's all these things going on, but Gollum always brings you right back to what the ring really represents.

Q: Why do you think that Sam is the only character that is not drawn in by the ring?

There are Tolkien scholars who could probably quote you chapter and verse, but I've always thought that each character passes a test in a certain way and fails to a certain extent. Sam maybe fails the least obviously. But I don't think he was really tested. I think Sam's function in the narrative is to bear witness to it all. I think that, as one of the many audience or reader surrogates, he tries to project onto the reader a sense of innocence and optimism and allow the person to identify with all the righteousness that's in there. It's nice to have a touchstone, to have something to anchor yourself to.

Q: Did you put on weight for the role?

Yes. 35 pounds. 30 pounds, but then it sort of crept up to 35 pounds. It came to me through my agent that Peter really liked my audition but was concerned about how thin I was. I'd just run the LA marathon and I was really lean. For me, for my body type. I was in great shape and he was considering hiring an English actor who was very heavy. My agent put it rather crudely: "It's between you and a fat guy in London." Now, I really wanted to be in this movie and really wanted to be in New Zealand and be a part of Peter and Fran's creative universe, so I started lifting weights. If you lift weights a lot and you eat a lot of protein, a lot of carbs and you build a lot of muscle but then stop building muscle and keep eating, and remain kind of sedentary, depending on your body type, you can put on a lot of weight. But I need to take it off because I don't want to play the fat guy or the friend for the rest of my life. I'm getting offers, but after Lord of the Rings, all the parts are "the friend." I was thinking, well, that could be a really comfortable career, but I want to have a shot at a really big career.

Q: Did you ever think about trying to get a bigger role for Sam in the story?

No. My heart is with the working class. My parents [John Astin and Patty Duke] are actors, but there's a kind of fellowship among actors traveling between theaters. You know, they were sort of famous for pop culture television shows and they always seem to me like working class people. There's real power and strength in knowing who you are and being good at what you do and realizing that every job has to be done. Somebody has to do it. Those are some of my favorite moments, being deferential. I think it suited my personality for the year and a half that I was doing it. I love attending to Elijah's needs. I really took on the role. If he got locked out of his apartment, I'd say, "Oh, don't worry about it," and I'd arrange for a locksmith and take care of it. It's actually pretty satisfying to the soul to give yourself over to somebody else. I'm kind of a megalomaniac freak idiot, but once in a while, I give myself over to my wife or to my children, and once you commit to it, there's a kind of euphoria that you experience when you recognize the pleasure that you bring to someone else. And that was Sam's life mission.

Interesting stuff in here, as always!

Just popping in to say that I finally got my hands on Ash Wednesday and watched it with the kids.

All my thoughts on EW in this movie are summed up by this:

What a waste of incredible talent.

That's all, except that he was miscast in this role when matching up with the characters he was to interact with. Not that I'm any kind of an expert, but I am a movie fan.

Hope I haven't insulted any of my fellow Elijah-fans. He just has so much to offer.

Tg, those Froshadowings from Huck Finn are so good! I think it would even have been great fun for EJW himself to see all those Huck Froshadowings (yours and Deluby's) - they are really *that* striking, and when there are so *many* of them, too...! Amazing!!


Deluby, wonderful Gifs, again!! :) I love the "Release them" one in particular. Such a beautiful portrayal of relief and gratitude.... he makes a small movement with his mouth there like he's thinking of saying something and changes his mind.... but maybe it's just a small sigh of relief.

That Sam poster is lovely too. (Especially since there is no audio to go with it. I have not grown much fonder of the UN speech, I'm afraid.)


About the roadside banner pic ainon posted: Wasn't LotR and Frodo used somewhat in the same manner back in the 60's? The "Frodo lives" slogan is from that period, isn't it?


Carly, thanks for the opinion on "Ash Wednesday". :)
Having now gotten your review of that film, in addition to ainon's, Wild Goose's and others, I have decided I won't be terribly upset if I never get to see the film. (Which is just as well, since it isn't available here anyway.) Black and White got about the same kind of comments some time back, equal to the ones AW is getting now (i.e. the film itself not good, the message muddled and poorly brought across, EJW miscast and his acting below par) - and yet I just *had* to see that one. :rolleyes:
And so I guess I learned my lesson: Trust the reviewers, at least when they're EJW fans!! B&W *is* one quite abysmal and very depressing film, and Elijah *is* out of his depth. The reviewers were right. In fact, one of the Brit Hooters commented that the *only* reason to watch B&W is the end credits...... Too poor a reason to sit through a whole motion picture, that!
So I guess the same goes for AW. (However, if the film *should* surface here, I'll watch it anyway. :rolleyes: at self. As Elrond probably would have scoffed: "Women? Women are weak!" )


*Sigh* - I guess his *next* upcoming film probably will be quite delayed in reaching us over here, too. Try 17 doesn't sound like the kind of film that gets a premiere date here immediately after its US release. Only the big blockbusters get that. Try 17 may perhaps be shown in soem slow period in between the great releases; - if it doesn't just go straight to video in Europe.


I have somewhat higher hopes for getting to actually watch the "Eternal Sunshine" one eventually. I even saw that one listed on some movie site's B-list of possible upcoming Oscar-gathering films for the next few years. So at least it *should* appear in cinemas, I suppose.


A small snippet from the interview ainon posted: And maybe half of the fan reaction was awful. I'm mean, it was serious, like, "Kill me now! This movie's going to suck! How could this loser be Frodo? It's over!" You know, freaking out. And then there were others, like, "No, he's cool. He's going to be fine." It was hilarious. So I went to New Zealand thinking I might not have the full support of the fans. I've read this before, and every time I read it, I think that EJW is one very courageous young man. Imagine if the fan reactions had been the same or worse after the first film premiered; - he'd have had to be very strong and confident to get past that. I'm so happy that was never put to the test, though! :)

Originally posted by tgshaw I found someone's ;) avatar, too, when I slowed that bit down--hadn't been able to place it before.

Really??? Whose??? ;) ;) ;)

Wonderful gifs, deluby! Thank you ! (When my life slows down a little, you can expect a PM from me re: your gif abilities - expect it before dawn, in the fifth month :rolleyes:, which is about when RL will slow down for me... )

Thanks for posting that interview, ainon!

Great Huck caps, tg! I love the froshadowings in it, and it is a great showcase for his talent at such a young age. I'm still yearning for a DVD copy of The Good Son, which has some of my very favorite of his young acting moments, but all I've been able to find, even on e-bay, is a company in the Phillipines selling what are possibly bootleg copies of a VCD, which may not even work on my equipment. :(

I wish I could be contributing to the discussions more, but RL is just too busy. I'm still following and enjoying what the rest of you have to say, though! Keep up the good work!

I've been informed that my post last night was offensive. I apologise, and I have removed both image and link to article. I wish to clarify that I posted what I did strictly because it reminded me of "Frodo Lives!", which was something this thread had talked about once. I had no other ulterior motive in posting other than to share what appeared to be an example of Frodo popping back into the American mainstream. Nor would I ever make any current issue stand here; this is neither the thread or forum for it.

Once again my apologies to all whom I might have offended. I acknowledge my error in judgement, but I would also like to take this opportunity to please ask that my nationality and religion not be used as basis for biased assumptions against me. Thanks.


------------


Just to get back on-topic, I'd purchased a DVD copy of 'Forever Young' today. Nothing much in terms of extras, and it's fullscreen rather than widescreen, which LOTR has really spoiled me for. :) This isn't a froshadowing by any long shot, but it sure made me laugh: the scene in the warehouse before EW and his friend meet a well-preserved Mel Gibson ;) -- EW's playing pretend and something's blown up! and he's been hit, and he's hamming it up, flailing about Gollum-style wailing "It burns! It burns!" :D

Hello all, sorry it took me so long to post these (if there is still any interest at all...) -- I had to go through all my many (many, many...) pictures and find the right ones. In the end, I have only chosen two; I looked through my others but I wanted close-ups that would really illustrate the similarities between Frodo and Smeagol, facially, and I couldn't find the right ones. So, anyway, here they are:

http://www.councilofelrond.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=My_eGallery&file=index&do=showpic&pid=7032&orderby=titleA

http://www.theargonath.cc/characters/frodo/pictures/ffotrshadow49.jpg

Yes, I know they don't face the same way, but I still thought they were good examples. In previewing this post, I just discovered that the Smeagol pic doesn't show as anything but a link -- sorry about this, but I'm not sure if I can do anything about it. :confused:

ainon, thanks for that interview, it was great! Especially what 'Lij said about fanfiction -- interesting, I wonder where he reads it...:rolleyes:

tg, those Froshadowings were wonderful... hoping that you will be quick to post more? Greatly enjoying your "Packing" screencaps, too!

Oh, and one last thing...a pic I've just been wanting an excuse to post here (I don't really have one, but what the heck!), which I know you ladies will enjoy.

http://www.theargonath.cc/characters/frodo/pictures/ffotrshadow48.jpg

How much d'you wanna bet Frodo got away with a lot as a tween (and probably an adult too!)? ;)

, "...but I would also like to take this opportunity to please ask that my nationality and religion not be used as basis for biased assumptions against me. Thanks."

Ainon: things are tense on this planet right now but we won't let that divide us. You are a Fac member and a friend. Nuff said.
:k

Tathar: yes, I think they did the Gollum/Frodo similarities deliberately. I actually don't like looking at a parody of Ews face though I think I see why Jackson did this. But it creeps me out to be honest. I wish they had shown the connection between the two differently, apart from the creepy aspect it seems to me to be "sledgehammer" tactics: ie lets make sure the audience sees that Frodo and Gollum share more than just ownership of the Ring so we'll make them look similar! Yuck. I think the psychological similarities would have been enough.

I have only recently returned ( 2 hours ago)from taking Hubby Baggins to view TTT for the first time. He loved it - especially Helms Deep. Logging in tonight I was gob smacked when the conversation turned to Gollum's eyes as I had not noticed the similarity between Frodo's and Gollum's eyes...size, colour and use of expression. Hubby Baggins however made this observation on first viewing. Wow!

I haven't seen TTT since the Gala in Auckland back in December 2002 and enjoyed it sooo much more second time around. At the first viewing I was impressed with EW's acting as the ring starts to gain control. Second time - and he is even better! I wondered yet again who else could possibly play Frodo and show the subtle changes in character as the story progresses. His blessing is his face- particularly his eyes as we have all noted, as he is able to convey so much of what he is thinking and experiencing through them.

Sorry Orli - you have been de-throned!

BTW - booked to go again next week with the father-in-law! I should have shares in the trilogy!;) :D

Ok, so I couldn't resist the opportunity to post after the two sisters :D
honestly, though, we're really not trying to take over the thread. :eek: ;)

I never saw the similarity between Gollum's eyes and Frodo/EW's though. It is true that certain eye shapes are associated (rightly or wrongly) with certain personality characteristics.

For myself I always looked at Gollum the creature (as a whole) not at individual features. EW I am so used to looking at I also see the whole package :)

Viola

(delurk)

I know this is OT, but I have an urgent question. Does someone
of you know how to download streaming Videos complete to the
harddisk. Please help.

(lurk)

First, Starlight, I'm not ignoring your question--I just honestly don't have an answer :( . There's a section in "The Moria Times" for technology troubles--maybe there'd be some help there?

Originally posted by Tathar
(if there is still any interest at all...)
As opposed to :confused: :confused: :confused: ?
How much d'you wanna bet Frodo got away with a lot as a tween (and probably an adult too!)?
According to Farmer Maggot, he was one of the biggest rascals in Buckland. And I rather expect he taught Merry well ;) :D .

Thanks for the interviews, ainon--some things we've heard before, but a fair amount of new material, too. I agree Elijah's had to be pretty brave to face some of the fan reaction; he probably gained experience when he was--what, 12 years old?--with the reviews of North. It was actually defending him against the "Kill me now!" posts that brought me where I am today :eek: ! I hope to add a bit of a history of "How I became an Elijah Wood fan" when I update my website for March. For now I'll just say that the "Wood Movies" (http://www.members.tripod.com/afewwords_tgs/id62.htm) page there was not compiled for fans--it was where I directed people I ran into online who didn't think he could do it.

Originally posted by ainon
...I posted what I did strictly because it reminded me of "Frodo Lives!", which was something this thread had talked about once. I had no other ulterior motive in posting other than to share what appeared to be an example of Frodo popping back into the American mainstream...

...but I would also like to take this opportunity to please ask that my nationality and religion not be used as basis for biased assumptions against me. Thanks.

Because RL kept me "off the boards" for a couple of days, I didn't see the original post, but as a Tolkienite from the "Frodo Lives" days, I just wanted to agree with what Maeglin said--that from the beginning it was connected with real-world issues (remembering that "Gandalf for President" surfaced about the same time...), so I wouldn't consider a similar use today at all strange. I'd also consider someone's posting of a picture here to be simply sharing information, not a sign that the post-er agreed or disagreed with the sentiment, whatever it was.

And, ainon, my situation may be unusual in that I work at a university and most of my neighbors here in the apartment building are international students--about one-third of them Moslem (the building is owned by a Hindu, BTW). But I'd hope that the unity and support we try to give each other at the university (a Catholic one, BTW) would be present here, too. IMHO, anything else would be false to Tolkien and what he stood for. (And, come to think of, to Elijah, too.)

Good heavens--did I scare everyone away somehow? Here I am for my morning fix and nothing to respond to! Hope some piccies will bring people back. All Huck Finn related.

Some froshadowings. The first one of Huck is the first moment he sees Jim swimming after being afraid he's drowned, so it kind of fits with the first moment of spotting Bilbo at Rivendell. Huck's just wet and tired, though, not poisoned. One thing I thought was well done in the movie--both through makeup and EW's acting--was Frodo's gradual recovery. Changed from the book where his recovery is complete pretty quickly, because of the change from removal of splinter to having to clear the poison from his system--just as it would have changed things, of course:

http://www.imagemagician.com/images/tgshaw/outtakes/capcrop3056-85.jpg http://www.imagemagician.com/images/tgshaw/outtakes/capcrop2763-85.jpg

http://www.imagemagician.com/images/tgshaw/outtakes/capcrop2163-85.jpg http://www.imagemagician.com/images/tgshaw/outtakes/capcrop1346-85.jpg

http://www.imagemagician.com/images/tgshaw/outtakes/capcrop2156-85.jpg http://www.imagemagician.com/images/tgshaw/outtakes/crop-newline-hobbits.jpg

The following are not froshadowings (unless I've missed something). I figure they're the 10-year-old boy version of "Attention from women is never, ever a bad thing."

http://www.imagemagician.com/images/tgshaw/outtakes/cap2837-85.jpg
http://www.imagemagician.com/images/tgshaw/outtakes/cap2857-85.jpg
http://www.imagemagician.com/images/tgshaw/outtakes/cap2904-85.jpg

And if that doesn't do it, here's another new February page I don't think I've posted the URL for--several Faculty discussion topics covered here: Leaving (http://www.members.tripod.com/afewwords_tgs/id141.htm)

{{{{{Faculty}}}}}} :)

Trying to finish up some RL business, which is why I've been absent from the boards for a bit. Will try to remedy that situation soon, I hope, before the Took sisters initiate their hostile takeover anyways! :D Glad to see you three. Are you keeping the trouts at bay, Viola?

Thanks for the Gollum-Frodo comparison, Tathar. When you think of it though, EW and AS are quite alike too, aren't they?

Well, my contribution from TORN, which has lots of pics up, worth checking out. These two Frodos stood out for me (no prizes to the person who guesses why :p ) :

http://img-nex.theonering.net/images/europetttpromo/images/03frodo_rewers.jpg

http://img-nex.theonering.net/images/europetttpromo/images/02frodo_rewers.jpg

That first one is similar to but very different from the Time one, isn't it? So EW probably spent one photo shoot reenacting the sequences in that expression over and over again? :D

TORN also informs us that there is now a Frodo supernova out there in the universe. Really! I am not pulling anyone's leg here.


tg:
The following are not froshadowings (unless I've missed something). I figure they're the 10-year-old boy version of "Attention from women is never, ever a bad thing."

LOL! Wonderful forshadowings and a nice mix of flirty material thrown in. Well, tg, if all this, plus angstyFrodo doesn't get everyone back then I don't know what will! (oh wait, I haven't checked 'Leaving' page yet. will do so after I post).

The 'See Bilbo/Jim' froshadowings works really, really well. And you did hear the story behind the shooting that Huck Finn scene, right? :D I remember I'd typed out all the relevant Elijah commentary bits last year, although maybe not including the funny story at this point here, but we lost that post when Imly crashed. :(

Your second forshadowing is the one I like most in this set. Never would have occurred to me, but now that I see the pics side by side it's like well, of course! Almost the same kind of contemplation too in a way, if we stretch it a bit, both Huck and Frodo are coming to terms with the facts of life about doing what one has to do. ;)

And the third Huck Finn is one my absolute favourites. Also another brilliant case for how EW is capable of showing just so many different types of fear alone!

edit
tg's Leaving (http://www.members.tripod.com/afewwords_tgs/id141.htm) page: Beautiful Crying, Nostril Acting, Jaw Setting -- This Page Has It All*--

You ain't kidding, tg! Wow! :cool: Now excuse me while I go gaze. Erm, I mean study. Visually and intensely.

Hi folks,

{{{Hugs to V, P and A}}}}

{{{ainon}}}

{{{{Faculty}}}}

Hiya to Tathar too, welcome!

Oh, Huck Finn Froshadowings! Thanks. Nice :cool:

Not much to say really apart from Child in the Night is on in the UK this Friday at 1.15 on Channel 5, in case any of the UK folk didn't know :) I'm going out that night so I'll have to set the video. :)

Bye,

Luth

:cool: :cool:
And if that doesn't do it, here's another new February page ...... Wow!! Tg, you are trying to kill me, here!! The scene that PJ and EJW made just to ensure I'd admire their Frodo for ever! Well, Ok, maybe they didn't do it for that very reason, but it had that effect anyway. I still honestly don't have a clue how it's possible to look like that while crying and yet conveying so many thoughts and feelings.

And if you think not seeing the chin was mildly annoying, well, be happy at least you didn't get the subtitles of Gandalf's words plastered all over Frodo's mouth. That's what they did here in the cinema. :Rolleyes:


Huck Finn Froshadowings. Nice !!!
:cool:

{{{{Faculty}}}}

Maeglian-
I still honestly don't have a clue how it's possible to look like that while crying and yet conveying so many thoughts and feelings.

It's that nostril acting. Y'know I never really noticed what eloquent nostrils he has along with the eloquent everything else he has.

Quick post while I'm actually on this much faster computer at work, and looking at some pretty cool stuff.

http://www.calendarlive.com/media/photo/2003-02/6621101.jpg

It's from an article about digital grading: http://www.calendarlive.com/movies/cl-ca-smith16feb16.story

In “The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers,” Frodo (Elijah Wood) travels across the Dead Marshes on his way to Mordor. Colors in the original 35-millimeter film, left, were manipulated on a computer, then returned to film in order to suggest Middle-earth otherworldliness, right. (Pierre Vinet)

And this behind-the-scenes pic was posted by Elf Lady at CoE New Pics thread:

http://elflady.com/legolasgreenleaf/behindthescenes/variousbts/images/moria001.jpg


That's the distance between Sir IM and EW while they were shooting that scene. :cool:


Oh, and Maeg - what you said about subtitles. Yeah ... :rolleyes:

Btw, tg, surely you know why the cleft chin had to go? So that they could make sure they wouldn't miss the emphasis on his eyes! :)

{{{Luthiea}}}

Not much to say really apart from Child in the Night is on in the UK this Friday at 1.15 on Channel 5, in case any of the UK folk didn't know I'm going out that night so I'll have to set the video.

I don't have channel five (darn it!). You wouldn't bring the video tape to Dublin when you're over would you? Pretty please :)

Not much else to say myself.

Welcome to the boards Tathar

((((((Faculty))))))

Originally posted by Hobmom
It's that nostril acting. Y'know I never really noticed what eloquent nostrils he has along with the eloquent everything else he has.
Okay, I haven't mentioned this before because it seemed too weird for even this thread :rolleyes: , but you've forced me into it. It's pretty well accepted that Elijah can do great eye acting because he starts with great eyes and knows how to use them, right? IMHO, the same thing applies to his nostrils. He has... ummm... unusually-shaped nostrils (well, if I can't say it here, where can I?) Maybe it's because I have the picture below as my wallpaper, so the fact is right in front of my face every time I sit down at my computer--but I think it might be possible to manipulate those nostrils more than most people's rounder, less angled ones. Hmmm?? Anyone who's particularly worried about me--I can PM you the phone number of my psychiatrist... But we've said similar things about his eyes, hands, mouth, nose (as a whole), face shape--even hairline--so why not his nostrils?

http://www.imagemagician.com/images/tgshaw/TTT/Sam-Frodo0-crop.jpg

-------------

Well, after that, what's left to say?

ainon--The shot of Huck holding the gun on Pap is one of my favorites, too. In both the book and movie that's a really tense scene. I was hoping to find a better Frodo pic to put with it (rather than that really early promo shot), but I think I'd have to use one from the Chamber of Mazarbul (which is actually where that promo shot is from) and it's never been one of my favorite scenes so I haven't gone into it for screencaps (yet ;) ). I've tried ones from Weathertop and they just don't have the same expression. -- And thanks for the new pics and the link to the article on color; another one of those filmmaking areas that's so much more involved than it looks (if it's done right).

My Ash Wednesday DVD was scheduled to ship the day it was released, which I believe was yesterday. Now the shipping date's been pushed back to the 25th. I have no idea why--think maybe the fact that I stuck with the free shipping instead of spending extra for faster delivery might have anything to do with it :rolleyes: ?

-----------------------

BTW--Did everyone notice we're 13 posts away from 2000 (for what--the fourth time?)?

Dropping in to do my part to get us to 2000! :)

tg and ainon, be assured that the wonderful pics you have been posting are *much* appreciated. (Love today's avatar, tg. Happy Frodo is such a rare commodity...) I must say I don't think I could handle having the SamnFro under the tree picture as my wallpaper; I loved the scene in the film, but I don't think it is the most flattering angle for EW. ;)

Am waiting with bated breath to see Ash Wednesday. Are you up for it. Goldie?

Does anyone think that Elwood will show up at the Grammy awards? Aren't they in New York? Isn't he?

Just delurking to say that you guys are great.:D I mean, where else are you going to find a serious discussion of Elijah's elegant, unusually-shaped nostrils? (Or anyone else's, for that matter?):D

tgshaw, were you thinking of any nostrils in particular to compare EW's to? I tried standing in front of the mirror and comparing my own, but alas, was laughing too hard and couldn't get any good data...:(

Love the Froshadowings, btw. And those last ones of Huck Finn being doted on are priceless.:cool:

Huck Finn is a mother-lode of Froshadowing pics. It's uncanny. In fact, I'm beginning to wonder if JRRT was influenced at all by Mark Twain in writing his epic! Or perhaps PJ drew upon Elijah's early films in planning his masterwork.

Even the adorable screencaps of Huck being doted on by the sisters (whose names I can't remember) remind me of something; but THAT exists only in the minds of the Harem, and is found nowhere in Tolkien's work.

Goldie exits quickly to dodge the flying trout.

;) :D

Hi Bridget, EE, Goldie, Vita, Luthiea and Hobmom, - nice to see you here again! :) It's been really quiet in here lately!
It's pretty well accepted that Elijah can do great eye acting because he starts with great eyes and knows how to use them, right? IMHO, the same thing applies to his nostrils. He has... ummm... unusually-shaped nostrils.
Possible reactions to this statement, from:

A. The EJW-admirer: "Yes, he has a unique and expressive face, that applies even to the nostrils. And indeed he uses all of himself in his acting, including the nostrils! What talent! What micro-expressive acting! What facial control and eloquence!" :)

B. The EJW detractor: "He looks weird, those bulging eyes and yeah, now that you mention it, the nostrils are really off-putting and strange too. And as for acting; my opinion is that the wide-eyed-with-flaring-nostrils-look makes it impossible to focus on whatever he may possibly be trying to convey. Give me Tom Cruise any day!" :(

C. The Frodo-detractor: "Yeah, well of course, since all he ever does is stumble, keel over, fall down, and lie there face in air while somebody rushes to the rescue, you *sure* get a lot of opportunity to look up those nostrils. Some hero! Ewww! " :mad:

D. The Frodo-admirer: "Everything about him is perfect! Everything is beautiful, unique, eloquent, full of lyricism and worthy of a sonnett or a song! His lovely expressive face, that beautiful nose, *every* little perfectly shaped part of it - oh, words fail me!" :o

E. The Faculty member: "This obviously calls for a Research project! And here are the project particulars", -

Objectives of project:

1) Determine whether EJW does in fact engage in nostril acting, and if so, whether his method is more pronounced or unusual in comparison to other actors.

2) Investigate whether size and shape of nostrils are unusual, and if so, to what *degree* they are unusual.


Research methodology:

1) Critical and detailed review of a sufficient number of up-close scenes in all EJW movies. All instances of possible or obvious nostril acting to be documented and described. When, why, other circumstances, emotions being conveyed, degree of success in employing this particular acting technique. Comparison with a statistically valid sample of other actors, and their use of the same or similar techniques in comparable film scenes and circumstances.

2) Measure size and shape of nostrils, nose and other main facial features of the actual research object. Measure same items in a statistically valid sample of 22-year old caucasian men of the same build, height and general appeareance. Analyse results assuming a normal distribution. Conclude as to the level of unusual-ness. Indicate standard deviation.


Project perks and upside:

- Lots of EJW movie and acting scrutinizing.
- Getting to meet EJW in person in order to carry out the necessary observations and measurements.
- Being hailed as an innovator in scientific fandom circles.
- Being mentioned on TORn and other fan sites; (- all publicity is good publicity, after all! )


Project risks and downside:

- Lots of not-so-interesting-actor movie scrutinizing.
- EJW taking out a restraining order against you, and sueing you to pay his additional security / body guard cost.
- Being shunned in less research-oriented fandom circles.
- Being analysed and discussed in great detail in serious medical and psychological journals in articles with titles such as: "Fandom and beyond - into the extremes of obsession: Is there a cure? A case study."


So; - any volunteers to lead the project? :D :eek: :eek:
----------------------

I hope EJW *never* lurks here, that would be really embarrassing after this! :o

Tg, I hope you don't mind this less-than-serious follow-up to your post? :eek: I'll remove it if so! I was feeling in an overwhelming mood for non-serious posting.

Thank you tg, for the great caps, and ainon for the pics and info! :)

Hi,

Wow, nearly 2000 posts, very good!

{{{Maeg}}} - lol at your 'reactions' :D

Yeah I like his nostrils too :D Long and elegant, but they don't take over his nose! Mine are small and round in comparison :p

Did I read somewhere that he practises yoga? Those leg-twisting photos from Toronto suggest so! I wonder if that helps him concentrate well enough to show his emotions so subtley? It's all about the breathing after all, so he must be able to focus really well during his acting, maybe that's how he manages to get in those tiny nuances :)

EE - If I manage to tape the film successfully of course I'll bring it over for you! :k

{{{Faculty}}}

Maeglian, don't you dare take that down! That was the best laugh I've had all day. By the time I got to the 'restraining order' I was in an absolute giggle-fit!

Luthiea, somewhere, someone asked EW about whether or not he does yoga, and he said, no, he's just flexible. I'm trying not to think about what might happen if he did cultivate that flexiblity with a bit of yoga... :eek:

I haven't been around much because somehow I managed to unsubscribe myself, and it took a couple of days before I realized it. (Kept thinking... "Wow, it's really quiet at the Faculty! I don't think they've ever gone without a post for three straight days, before! :rolleyes: )

Anyway, the nostril thing is amusing me to no end. Personally, I think he has an absolutely perfect, gorgeous nose, and as for whether the nostrils are 'unusually shaped,' all I can say is that I've never really stared at anyone else's nostrils before, so... who knows? :D

Maegiln, ROTFL!! I forbid you to take that down! Gosh, I needed a laugh -- I'd just gone into a state of depression when I realized that of all the LotR fellow-geeks I know (barring you gals, of course! ;) ), I am the ONLY ONE who truly appreciates and loves Frodo like he deserves. Yesterday at my filmography class I had to endure listening to two of my classmates bashing Elijah -- that he "sounds girlish, with that accent..."! :eek: Sigh.....

So, visiting the Faculty was just what I needed. :D This nostril-acting discussion is fascinating :rolleyes: and I'm more than ready to volunteer for further research!

I hope EJW *never* lurks here, that would be really embarrassing after this!

:eek: Eeek! That *would* be embarrassing -- although I think he'd probably find it funny (I mean, if he can think all that "Kill me now!" stuff about his casting as Frodo, I would think he could find our researching pretty amusing...).

tg, it's great to see more Huck Froshadowings! It really is amazing how many there are in that movie. But I had no idea that it was on DVD! :eek: Unfortunately current financial positions won't allow me to buy it yet, and of course Hollywood and Blockbuster have stopped carrying even the VHS version of it (:mad: )...Anyone willing to let me rent their's? ;)

Thanks for more of those welcomes -- you'll never be able to get rid of me now..... :p

Maeg: Thanks for the great laugh this morning.

Oooh, 2000 posts soon. Party time ! :D

Maeg--ROTFLMAO (good thing I didn't read it til my boss had left for the day ;) ). -- Even in person, my weird sense of humor sometimes makes people think I'm being serious (which can be fun with first-year med students), but I'd really worry about myself if I wasn't approaching the whole nostril acting topic from a silly POV. Not that it isn't all true!!--but that doesn't mean I'm not laughing while I'm writing it :p ! With everyone else, I'll say--Don't you dare take that down! -- I'll have to make a general disclaimer on the seriousness of all this, because the program doesn't allow enough smilies to do it throughout :D .

So, to continue:

The best example of nostril acting, of course, is on that Leaving (http://www.members.tripod.com/afewwords_tgs/id141.htm) page--when Frodo first hears Gandalf's voice. I mean, that one was obvious even in the theater! But with the DVD there's the advantage of being able to not only slow/stop the action, but to reverse it. Months ago, when I first looked at the caps from that scene in reverse (to get back to the start... I don't usually run things backwards just for the heck of it :rolleyes: ), I saw something interesting. [See, I noticed this stuff a long time ago--I refrained from talking about it here until Hobmom brought up Elijah's "eloquent" nostrils. That statement, of course, made it absolutely necessary to investigate why they're so eloquent. One of the main elements of research--every answer opens up new questions.]

Anyway, for anyone who wants to test for reproducible results, what I noticed is that if you start with, say, frame 7 or 8 (as numbered on the "Leaving" page), Elijah's nostrils look perfectly normal; but if you then play the frames in reverse, at the moment of nostril acting it looks like he's sucking in his nostrils (not an unusual action--I can even do that) so that they become narrower than "normal." Well, am I right :p ? Thus my belief that Elijah's nostrils are slimmer (now that's a nice, acceptable word, isn't it?) than most people's--and when he's flaring his, they look like most people's "resting state."

Besides the "Leaving" caps, there's a lot of research material in the Weathertop caps, since Frodo's on his back through most of the scene (see, all those falls in FotR were useful for something). In general, when he's actively struggling against the WiKi, his nostrils look "average," but when the sword is coming out of his shoulder and he starts passing out, they narrow. IMVHO, this is strong evidence for the microexpression theory--that is, that a lot of Elijah's physical acting is subconscious. I mean, with everything else that's going on there, is he honestly able to think, "Okay, Frodo's passing out, so I have to relax my nostrils" :eek: ? If he is, he's got a different kind of gift!

Okay, now I have to get dressed and go edit research articles on cancer for 8-10 hours--which might explain why I enjoy a bit of silly research now and then :) . I've already credited Elijah's Barney--in that very last scene of Bumblebee--with getting me to the office at the times it all seems useless. Now I may have to credit his nostrils for a bit of needed distraction ;) . ---- And, heck, I hope he is lurking here--if he can take that fanfic... :eek: !


[i]Originally posted by Goldenberry
Huck Finn is a mother-lode of Froshadowing pics. It's uncanny. In fact, I'm beginning to wonder if JRRT was influenced at all by Mark Twain in writing his epic! Or perhaps PJ drew upon Elijah's early films in planning his masterwork.
If either of those are true, I'd pick the second--or else that the directors of both were evidently able to let Elijah know what they wanted without interfering too much with how he did it, which seems to get some of his best acting, including body language & facial expressions that are probably most natural to him.

There are some similar story elements, which lead to a lot of the Froshadowing, but (to get serious for a minute :rolleyes: ) IMHO those come out of what Tolkien called the "soup" of story--all those elements of story that have gotten thrown into the pot and mingled for hundreds or thousands of years--rather than from Tolkien being specifically influenced by Twain (I don't remember him ever mentioning Twain, but that doesn't mean he didn't).

One thing that makes me doubt the book-to-book influence in favor of the movie-to-movie influence is that movie-Huck is at least as different from book-Huck as movie-Frodo is from book-Frodo. We're not really seeing a lot of Twain's original Huck on screen (this is a Disney movie, after all :rolleyes: ). There's a big difference between how a 14-15 year old handles situations and how a 10 year old does. I have to credit the writer (who was also the director) with realizing that, and changing the story so it fits the younger character, but Huck's much more mature in the book.

Even the adorable screencaps of Huck being doted on by the sisters (whose names I can't remember)...
The Southern belles in the screencaps are two of the Grangerford women (the family involved in the feud). I think they're mother and daughter, but I'm not sure. We don't get their names in the movie, but there's a "Mother Grangerford" listed in the credits. Maybe you're thinking of the Wilks sisters, who come along later? They're the ones whose father has died, giving the King and the Duke the opportunity to move in and try to grab the estate. I haven't done any caps of that part, yet (I've only gotten about halfway through the movie and, alas, time for that activity is very limited lately :( ).

tg and Maeg ... ROTFLMAO!!!

A bit breathless now to say much else - can't even intelligently reply to tg's above post yet! - so for now I'll share this historical tidbit from TORn (EW related parts only, of course!):


Tehanu’s set visit: Hobbiton (http://www.theonering.net/features/exclusives/firstvisit.html)

We followed a narrow winding lane into a field where the main action was. PJ and Elijah Wood were sitting in a tent full of monitors and computers, watching Sir Ian McKellen and the small Frodo double do a scene in a horse-drawn cart. They had to drive down a little hill, chatting. So far so good; the horse behaved and everything went well once Gandalf’s hat managed to stay on in the wind. Then I got a chance to see the same scene in forced perspective: Wood and McKellen in a larger cart cunningly made so that the two of them would appear to be sitting side-by-side from the point of view of the front-mounted camera. Because in fact Wood was sitting further back than Mckellen, he appeared smaller. It worked fine so long as neither of them moved so they overlapped. The complexity of building props for every single scene using this technique was a bit mind-blowing.

Two hours of real-time and a half-minute of film-time later, I could admire the sheer stamina of these actors. It was a hot, humid mid-afternoon, and Gandalf was wearing his thick felt hat and heavy robes. Frodo’s costume was lighter, but still heavier than what anyone else could stand to wear. The crew were in t-shirts and staying in the shade of the tents as much as possible. I was collecting a new sunburn.

Wood and McKellen came down into the tent to look at the rushes of the scene and see why it wasn’t working. There was a bit of easy laughter, no tension. I’ve been on opera sets a fair bit during rehearsals, and often enough after three hours in costume under lights the air is sizzling with ill- will between the performers, lighting crew, mechs, director and producer. This set couldn’t have been more different.

I asked if there was going to be a bloopers and outtakes movie, and Jackson said yes, it would be part of the DVD release.

McKellen looked stoical about the heat; PJ suggested another take and Wood absolutely bounded off up to the cart without a second’s hesitation, depsite all the uncomfortable waiting he’d done already.

-------------------------------

Originally posted by tgshaw
BTW--Did everyone notice we're 13 posts away from 2000 (for what--the fourth time?)?

Hmm, remember when you stayed up almost all night and I slacked off from work to wait for that first 2000? Although I think I got the better part of the deal there. :D

Happy pre-2000 posts (again), Faculty! :k

Just a few shy of 2000!!! get the party hats out! Someone call Sheryl and let her know!

Maeg: I nearly fell out of my chair laughing at your research proposal. Between you, you and tg make it seem almost possible!!! :p The Faculty is in excellent form!

thanks for posting the EW-centric parts of the Hobbiton set report, ainon. I really admire how professional these folks are. What hard work this whole project was!!

And did you see the little squib at Always and Forever this morning? seems that Elwood went to a screening of Daredevil in New York recently, and stood in line with the regular folks!! He is sooo far from being a typical Hollywood type...

They are also reporting that Bumblebee is scheduled to be on the Bravo network this Friday! I haven't been able to check that, though.

Maeglian, your post was great because it was ALL TRUE. I'm afraid that in any such discussion, I would always have to select:

D. The Frodo-admirer: "Everything about him is perfect! Everything is beautiful, unique, eloquent, full of lyricism and worthy of a sonnett or a song! His lovely expressive face, that beautiful nose, *every* little perfectly shaped part of it - oh, words fail me!"

Like BunnieBugs, I also think he has an absolutely perfect nose, the kind that any plastic surgeon would kill to be able to reproduce, and anything he does with his nostrils is just A-OK with me!

The little discussion about whether or not Tolkien had read Twain made me remember something C.S. Lewis said in his memoir, Surprised by Joy: that when he was a boy, he developed such a passion for Arthurian legend that he read everything about it that he could get his hands on, including Twain's A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court. Of that book, he said that he was so entranced with its Arthurian setting that he was able to disregard its "crude parody." (I remember feeling the same way when I read it many years ago). I'd be willing to bet that Tolks would have shared Lewis' sentiment about the "crude" part...don't know how he would have felt about Huck Finn, though. I don't get the impression that Tolkien took much interest in the "new world" at all!

As an aside, when I saw that cap of Huck Finn with those ladies, their elaborate dresses immediately made me think of Belle, the madam from Gone With the Wind. Now, it's been a long, long time since I read Huckleberry Finn, but I sure couldn't remember Huck getting fed breakfast by a couple of....ummm..."fancy women." And in a Disney movie, no less! Glad to hear they're just some respectable ladies with lamentable taste! Guess I'll find out about the scene myself soon enough---ordered my Huck Finn DVD from Amazon yesterday!

I also think he has an absolutely perfect nose, the kind that any plastic surgeon would kill to be able to reproduce

Did I dream it, or was there some rumour that Michael Jackson based some / all his facial features on Elijah's.

EE, I think you're thinking of one of the first reviews of FoTR (I actually had that review in my desk since last year and now, of course, I can't find it!). The writer said, "Elijah Wood has the kind of face that Michael Jackson seems to have been trying to achieve for years."

I'm pretty sure it was David Ansen in Newsweek.

Oh thank God for that! I'd hate to think MJ did it purposely. Thanks for the info Elda.

I remember the quote as "Elijah Wood has the face that Michael Jackson tried to buy." I can't find it online.

I did find a follow-up to it. The MJ connection was picked up on by the Brains Trust, one of those spoofy online "news" pages, like the Onion. They wrote a parody article:LOTR Producers Sue Michael Jackson's Face
New Line Cinema, Wingnut Films, and producers of "Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers" filed suit this week against Michael Jackson's medical team and face for "knowingly acting in violation of international copyright laws by reproducing Elijah Wood's features on the front of Mr Jackson's head." Plaintiffs contend, in a 60-page brief, that unauthorized production stills from the first installment of "Lord of the Rings" fell into Mr Jackson's possession sometime during the summer of 2000. At this time, Mr Jackson's surgery goals allegedly veered suddenly away from the "glamorous features of Diana Ross" and toward a "look which is decidedly pixie-like and uncannily similar to that of Elijah Wood." Some 40 photographic exhibits purport to compare Mr Jackson's features with Mr Wood's, noting similarities in the two men's "alabaster complexion, adorable pointy nose, irresistible dimple, and pouty, pouty lips." However, a powerful legal team which represents the studios has indicated they will do their utmost to protect the financial interests of several corporations, including the estate of J R R Tolkien. "We are not unsympathetic to Mr Jackson," said one attorney, "But Elijah Wood's face is the exclusive property of New Line Cinema, and we're damned if any fly-by-night international pop superstar is going to go around wearing it."

...alabaster complexion, adorable pointy nose, irresistible dimple, and pouty, pouty lips.

Sounds like a Haremite wrote that!