Well, I finally managed to sit down and watch Ash Wednesday tonight, and I'm all of 15 minutes into it. Gahk! I don't know how I'm going to make it all the way through it. :rolleyes:

The coloring, the camera angles...three minutes into it it was screaming 'pretentious.'

Seven minutes into it, I already was sick of the music. Someone needs to tell Ed Burns that most movies use more than eight bars of music, played over and over. :rolleyes:

Apparently, there's an entire close-knot Irish community in NYC where only two of the first fifteen people we encounter have anything resembling an Irish accent.

I'm bleeding from the head wound I got from being bashed over and over in the head with "Sean's dead, did you hear he's alive, you're in trouble Francis."

Ok, I'm going back to suffer a little more...

Edit: The "did you sleep with my wife" scene at least raised the emotional bar a tiny bit - EW's eyebrow squinch is the first time I saw anyone express anything resembling real emotion.

Oh, this is bad. If Sean's being alive is supposed to be such a secret, why are they having a loud conversation about it in the friggin' hallway of the apartment building???? :rolleyes:

Oh, for pity's sake. He's been hiding out for three years, but he's still running around with his wallet with all his ID in it???? What happened to his assumed name??

And I loved the awkwardness of the chase scene. Can you say "low budget??"

Edit again: Well, it's over. I made it through. The plot line was worthy of a five-minute Reader's Digest story. Ed's acting was...well, not really acting. It was the pablum of acting. I though Elijah took a pretty nothing role and actually infused a little life into it...his character couldn't be believable, because the structure (and dialogue and plot and characters to bounce off of) wasn't there for it to be believable. But he at least brought a little vigor, a little feeling to a movie that otherwise gave new meaning to "put the white on rice."

Final word - Francis didn't bleed nearly enough for a man with that many bullet wounds in him. :D

I'm going to bed now. I'll see if I can bring myself to talk about Ash Wednesday another day. :rolleyes:

Elvellon did some interior redecorating over at www.frodoandsam.net :) Cool things over at Elijah's multimedia page (http://www.frodoandsam.net/multimedia/elijah.html), including Elijah as Ethan calling Dr. Frasier Crane for advice. :D

http://www.hobbitonhill.net/audio/work/elijah-frasier.mp3


Awwww!!! Whiteling & tg, those are just sooo cute. So, so, so cute. If Elijah's choices in shearing his head any which way work to inspire the posting of more cute animal pictures, then his experimental shearings can't possibly be a bad thing. ;)


Interesting anecdote to share which is on-topic, really. Really! I was watching 'The Goonies' on DVD, with the director's commentary on. 'Goonies' was directed by Richard Donner, who went on to direct Elijah in 'Radio Flyer'. Since we don't know if 'Radio Flyer' would ever be released on DVD, with director and cast commentary ('The Goonies' commentary actually had the whole grown-up cast reunited together :cool: ) this particular story by the actor Jeff Cohen revaled some insider info about stuff. Jeff Cohen, btw, played the fat kid. As you can see, he's not fat anymore.

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-7/280194/JeffCohenChunk.JPG

There's a scene in the movie where he cries, and as he and the director point out - he was crying for real:

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-7/280194/chunk.JPG

How he managed to cry? He thought of his mother dying. :o How is this on-topic? Well ... for those who've seen 'Radio Flyer' -- there was a *lot* of crying involved there. 'Method' involved, perhaps?

Oh, okay. I was doing screencaps, and it was just too hard to resist comparing the RL adult to the kid named Chunk. :p :D



Narya, you made it through 'Ash Wednesday'! And as usual, you've gone straight to the heart of the matter:

Final word - Francis didn't bleed nearly enough for a man with that many bullet wounds in him. :D

:o It's a problem that must be rectified. Immediately. Preferably at the start of the movie before he begins that walk. All that walking probably drained all the blood down to his legs where there weren't any bullet holes. It's the walking that's acursed, it is. Stop the walking, and we shall stop the tinkling piano music of repetitive keys! Stop the walking and Elijah shall become, by default, the lead character. It's our solemn duties, friends. We must not let Mr. Burns walk. :o



Mariole - are you safe and free from deadlines now? :) Very Zen that hair talk of yours. Now tell me. What's this 'tonsure' of which you and Maeg speak and does it abide by principles of angst amplification?



Originally posted by Alyon
And for movie night with Ainon---(we have two or three EN movies out from the library at this very moment. You won't mind seeing them again?).

It would be a joy! Thank you for the invite. What movies are we looking forward to? :)

Awwwww, what a cute penguin photo, tgshaw! Are those rockhopper penguins? I love penguins!:D Even the word "penguin" is cute.

Erm, excuse me for being so clueless, but is Elwood actually thinking of playing Francis of Assisi? And is a tonsure where they shave their heads?:eek: :eek: :eek: Did St. Francis really lop off someone's head? Or did he have his own lopped off?:confused: :confused: :confused: Yes, I AM a cultural ignoramus. Told you so, peaceweaver. I've even been to Assisi, and still clueless.:rolleyes:

Oh, the hair, the hair. I so hope he outgrows this weird hair phase before the Oscars. He looked so gorgeous at the 2002 Oscars when his hair was normal. I do kinda like the side shot of the Fauxhawk, but from the front!!! :eek: :( :rolleyes:

My theory is that he's making up for lost time by doing all these weird hair things now. In his teens, he was always working, and had to look 'normal'. So now that he has some time, he's doing all the young guy stuff like hanging out with his buddies, going to geek conventions, and experimenting with his 'look'. The one thing he hasn't done yet is dye it some outrageous color. Oh boy, let's hope he skips that particular phase! Although bright blue hair might draw even more attention to his eyes.....;) :p

Goldenberry, we'd better not push our luck regarding the blue hair. Did you see that pic of him, in NZ I think, where he had dyed his hair black-black-black? It didn't suit him, IMVHO. Actually, I saw the most beautiful mohawk of my life on the Boulder Mall, hangout for still-remaining hippies. This guy had a TALL mohawk, spiked up about 8 inches at the crest, and he had done this BEAUTIFUL rainbow effect in colors radiating out from his scalp to the tip. It really was extremely arresting and artistic, and yes, there was quite a bit of blue. I wonder if Elijah would do that?

Ainon, the tonsure is when monks shaved the crest of their heads, but left a fringe of hair sticking out all around the bottom, like a thick headband at about ear height. It would not be as attractive as either the rainbow mohawk or the black-black-black hair. It was a silly hair style and we can thank goodness it went out of vogue.

Um, I'd better let tg answer the detailed Francis questions, but from what I'd gleaned off earlier posts, this is the real, true story of Francis the wild kid who later went on to become a saint. We're speculating that "wild youth" included killing some people, which he later very much regretted. I always liked St. Francis, and when a script of his early life came up, we thought EW would be good. But I'm sure he's not heard of this script yet.

Edit: Oops, forgot to say, my deadlines are still happening almost daily. Delivered an HTML library yesterday, a new book and supporting docs due today, and another set due Monday. Then I'm done for a while. Weds I go to my niece's wedding for a week's vacation in North Carolina. I really need it! At least I can work at home again, now that my computer's back up, so I can sneak off and browse when I get really crazy. :k

Originally posted by Mariole
Um, I'd better let tg answer the detailed Francis questions, but from what I'd gleaned off earlier posts, this is the real, true story of Francis the wild kid who later went on to become a saint. We're speculating that "wild youth" included killing some people, which he later very much regretted.
Just to clarify a bit :eek: -- The killing that Francis would have done was as a soldier, the point being that this was medieval up-close-and-personal killing with a sword, rather than our more "sanitized" :rolleyes: modern version of war with guns and bombs. And he did become an absolute pacifist later.

We don't know any details of his "wild youth," so it's open to wide interpretation/speculation. That part of his life was pre-war--especially since he came home after a year as a POW half-dead and with a serious bout of PTSD. He didn't immediately turn into a "saint," but he was never wild and crazy again after that experience. [...Later thought: Well, I guess a lot of people did think he ended up wild and crazy, but in a different way... ;) .]

The point regarding EJW and the tonsure being that there was enough in Francis' life to make a good story before he received the tonsure, so if a movie was made just of his earlier life, the baldness could be avoided :) .

My dear Mariole, I didn't mean to put you in danger! ;)
That was my first lesson my hubby told me concerning computers: NO LIQUIDS right next to it!!
Vacation and niece's wedding - sounds lovely. Enjoy it :k !

Oh, I keep forgetting - hello to kuduk's spouse :) !

Narya - I'm glad to see that you survived Walking Hell. And you were still able to type afterwards!:eek: That's quite an accomplishment.:cool: ;)

(Actually, has anyone heard from Narya lately? What if she went to bed after Ash Wednesday and was so traumatized by the walking that she never got up? It's been known to happen, you know! okay, so I made that last part up:rolleyes: )

:D

One good thing about the spiky hair - it's easier to fix than the shaved head. This time, he doesn't have to wait for anything to grow back, he just needs to get a haircut. Or have some charitable Faculty members give him a haircut while he sleeps. Whoops! Did I say that out loud?:o

Bridget, you gave me two good laughs this morning, bless you! The first is worrying that Narya has gone comatose over watching the Walking. "It's been known to happen." :D I can't stop laughing. You know, I think I would actually enjoy AW if I could see it with a bunch of other Faculty members making comments. Narya, I loved your blow-by-blow write-up, BTW. Lots of fun! And very decent observations about EW's acting. I think I was too comatose while actually watching it to form any thoughts -- although I did love the (:mad: too dark!) reunion scene.

Oh, laughs. I remember the subject now. Bridget, your sig - Tamzin's rhyme. Love it!

Goldie, I think your theory about EW's hair is sound. I know a lot of people who went a bit wild in college because, well, they could. And if EW had to act all his teenage years and wear prescribed Flipper and Mikey haircuts, he might well be doing a little experimenting right now. I think the best solution is to put one of those giant paper collars around his neck, like they do to dogs, to keep anyone from getting at his hair with a pair of scissors. Make it a really GIANT paper collar. We'll leave it on for three months. That ought to get everything long enough to suit even my medieval tendencies. A little trim to even up the ends, and boom, we're in business.

Right, acting. I just noticed that Orlando Bloom's folks have announced yet another movie for him, a biography type of deal (what is it with Orlando and Somalia)? I think that's a good way to go with Elijah. I personally love biographies. Francis of Assisi is on the table (well, not literally). But I'd like to see some other contenders. EW needs to make more movies!!!

Originally posted by Mariole
...You know, I think I would actually enjoy AW if I could see it with a bunch of other Faculty members making comments.
Ah, yes--definitely a movie that needs the MST3K* treatment! Now that Joel, Mike and the 'bots have given up the screen, why not the Faculty? :p

[*For those unlucky enough to have missed it: Mystery Science Theater 3000, a program that was originally filmed--literally--in someone's garage in Minnesota, and consisted of the show's cast watching really bad movies and making appropriate (and sometimes inappropriate :p ) comments throughout. Oh, what they could have done to (er, I mean "with" ;) ) Ash Wednesday!]

Mariole said:
EW needs to make more movies!!!

May I second that? But be careful what you wish for, for there are new rumors that EW is "in talks" to star in "Mort the Dead Teenager!"

What? You've never heard of this great story? Neither had I. It was a comic book that Marvel published something like 4 copies of. Just what the world needs, more comic book heroes on the big screen.
:rolleyes:

While Orlando Bloom gets to play Homeric heroes. There is no justice.

I'm feeling rather blue, because TORN is reporting Oscar talk, and there is no mention whatsoever of Elijah Wood. I want to scream!!:mad:

Originally posted by peaceweaver
Just what the world needs, more comic book heroes on the big screen.
:rolleyes:

Well, from what I've read, he's hardly your traditional comic book hero. There is more information here at Yahoo Movies. (http://movies.yahoo.com/shop?d=hp&cf=prev&id=1808513449)

I have no idea whether or not Elijah is still in talks to do this, but as he'll soon be 23, it wouldn't surprise me if this were to go the way of Thumbsucker.

Yes, PW, I noticed that as well. All the buzz is for Aragorn. Now, I have nothing against Viggo Mortensen personally, but I just don't consider him that caliber of an actor. He does adolescent, twitchy Aragorn, which is about as far from my Beloved!Book!Aragorn as one can get (twitchy has nothing to do with the script; Viggo brought that to the role all on his own. Blech.)

I remember being disappointed in Amadeus, wonderful movie, in that F. Murray Abraham won the Oscar, but Tom Hulce was left out. I truly enjoyed the movie, but to pick one of them over the other -- how awful! I just adored Tom Hulce's performance.

In the case of LOTR, I think Elijah Wood is wonderful -- beyond superb, and that Viggo Mortensen ... isn't. That's completely my taste, and I realize the world doesn't share it. Or seem to share it. It's like, everyone has agreed that it is absurd to even consider Elijah Wood for a nomination, and no one wants to be the first on his block to say, "Well, uh, actually, I thought he was pretty good." No, they're all looking sideways at each other so that no one steps out of the common mold. Blech twice.

Still, let's hope that the movie helps change a few minds. They don't really nominate until next year, do they? (You can tell how much I keep up with the Oscars...:rolleyes: ) I don't mind there not being any early buzz for him. I'm glad there is for Sean Astin, because that means Elijah gets to play off a strong actor. Frankly, I was disappointed in Sean A in the first movie. I just didn't think he was as strong as a lot of the rest of the cast. Although he improved in the second movie, I still think Elijah had a weaker character to play off of, so his Frodo came off weaker. You want to have really good players to play against to make everybody shine, so if Sean A is getting buzz, I'm thinking to myself, "Well, that's a relief." And Sean A said himself that his acting improved until the climactic scene. So I'm hoping that is all true, because Elijah has so many scenes with him, I want him to be as strong as possible. It's to everyone's benefit -- I say as a completely disinterested movie goer, who intends to see this movie 50 times, starting at midnight the day it's released. Is it December yet?

Originally posted by Mariole
In the case of LOTR, I think Elijah Wood is wonderful -- beyond superb, and that Viggo Mortensen ... isn't.
I think Viggo is good-looking as Aragorn, and he kicks butt with a sword, but I think Frodo's the role with the real emotional complexity. Pre-TTT there was Oscar buzz for Viggo, too, but I didn't think Aragorn's character developed beyond where he was at the end of FotR. And after the movie came out it was all about Andy Serkis.

Aragorn's the traditional hero, and the diversity of Frodo's scenes can't come out before the movie comes out, cause they would spoil Cirith Ungol, Mt Doom, the Grey Havens...

Frankly, I was disappointed in Sean A in the first movie. I just didn't think he was as strong as a lot of the rest of the cast. Although he improved in the second movie, I still think Elijah had a weaker character to play off of, so his Frodo came off weaker.
I hope you aren't implying that Liv was a stronger actor to play off of ;) :D. Elijah did get to play off of Ian McKellan in the first movie, you know, and that great scene with Sean Bean at the end -- I think everyone who played off Sean Bean came out looking good in the first movie, actually. Viggo's performance in TTT would have been improved by the presence of Bean.

Mel

Originally posted by mel headstrong
I think Viggo is good-looking as Aragorn, and he kicks butt with a sword, but I think Frodo's the role with the real emotional complexity.
_____________________________________________

My thoughts exactly, Mel!

Originally quoted by Mel:
Aragorn's the traditional hero, and the diversity of Frodo's scenes can't come out before the movie comes out, cause they would spoil Cirith Ungol, Mt Doom, the Grey Havens...
_____________________________________________

That's true, so there's a flicker of hope left that Elijah MAY come into the running late in the race - but I'm not holding my breath!

Originally posted by Mariole:
In the case of LOTR, I think Elijah Wood is wonderful -- beyond superb, and that Viggo Mortensen ... isn't. That's completely my taste, and I realize the world doesn't share it. Or seem to share it. It's like, everyone has agreed that it is absurd to even consider Elijah Wood for a nomination, and no one wants to be the first on his block to say, "Well, uh, actually, I thought he was pretty good." No, they're all looking sideways at each other so that no one steps out of the common mold. Blech twice.
______________________________________________

As you say Mariole, it seems the world doesn't share our - very excellent - taste. I do like Viggo's Aragorn, but he doesn't move me in the way Elijah's Frodo does. I love Sean Astin's Sam dearly, and it's great that he's getting some Oscar buzz, but it's such a shame that Elijah hasn't even earned a mention up to now OK he's young, and hopefully he'll have great roles in the future, when he'll be older and presumably more 'qualified':rolleyes: in terms of experience/diversity or whatever criteria the powers-that-be judge by. I really don't think age should be an issue - an outstanding performance is an outstanding performance, whether the actor is 18 or 80, and in my eyes Elijah's Frodo is an outstanding piece of work from an immensely talented young man. But that's just my humble opinion.:)

On a slightly different but sort of related topic - I almost had a panic attack last week. I took our dog Holly for a walk, and when I got home I realized I had dropped my house keys somehwere along our route. After re-tracing our steps twice I still couldn't find them. Luckily hubby was at home.
'You've lost the keys???!!!' he said.
'Yes,' I replied miserably. 'But more to the point I've lost my Frodo key-ring!!!' (The said Frodo key-ring was a freebie I got with the TT DVD.)
':D' said Hubby.
':eek: :(' said I.
But it all ended happily. Some kind person had found them and handed them in to the local probation centre of all places. It was a client too. Now that restored my faith in human nature.
':) :D :cool:!' exclaimed I.
':rolleyes: ' muttered Hubby.
So key-ring Frodo is now safely back where he belongs! I love a happy ending!

Originally posted by BLOSSOM
As you say Mariole, it seems the world doesn't share our - very excellent - taste.


LOL!


I do like Viggo's Aragorn, but he doesn't move me in the way Elijah's Frodo does.

I'm so with you, Blossom!
Mmh, perhaps we all are hopelessly old-fashioned? As far as I'm concerned, I never felt drawn to heros of "Aragorn"-style, testosterone-transpiring, grandiose, glittering... I loved (and love) the noble, soft and sensitive types of hero. Those, who are doubting and struggling with tasks, those who feel torn and vulnerable. If these heros appear to be of etherical beauty - all the better!
My love for Frolijah reminds me of a medieval manner of adoration: Minne - courtly love. It was kind of "transferred" love, very idealistic and non-physical.

http://www.photobucket.com/albums/0903/whiteling/Manesse_55._kleiner.jpg

I'm back! Thank you all for your concern, and I am happy to report that the walking in Ash Wednesday did not cause any permanent damage to my psyche. However, it did take several days to recover from the really bad repetitive music, and a course of therapy to purge the bad!script!illogic!stoopidness from my short term memory. I feel better now. :p I would like to watch the EW parts again, but that would involve actually buying it, and I'm not sure I want to support Ed Burns' habit. Do you suppose there's any way to do a directed purchase - you know, one where I could designate that all funds from my purchase go directly to EW? Or the SPCA? Or orphans in Africa? Anywhere but to Ed Burns???? ;)

Anyway, I've promised my therapist that I will only watch it again with the remote in my hand, hovering over the fast forward button. :D

On the good news front, my copy of All I Want arrived yesterday, so my daughter and I watched it tonight. (Yah, I know, I'm late to the party, but at least I finally arrived!) I found it an absolutely delightful movie, which I was not expecting, given the mixed reviews it has received here. My 16 year old daughter, who is a movie buff but not a really big Elijah fan, really liked it, and commented when it was over that all the acting was really good, which she was happy about, because so many of these movies are poorly acted. (Her words, not mine!)

I found Jones to be a completely believable teenager. I think it was Tg who said he reminded her of herself at that age - and perhaps that's why I found the acting absolutely spot on, because he acted exactly like I felt at that age. The usual teen movies use the overacting, super-expressive teen as their model, and while this does represent a portion of the teen population, the one I most relate to is the inscrutable teen, the cynical teen, the one who keeps a brittle shell between himself / herself and the world. I saw plenty of emotion, and plenty of response in Jones' character - it shone through in the way his whole face relaxed and softened when he smiled in some scenes, or in the tenseness that held his whole face tight in others. His ability to express volumes with his eyes alone (and the muscles surrounding them) was put to very good use, IMO. What I saw was wary!human response from Jones, which I thought fit his character perfectly, instead of the hyper!teen!look!at!me that's so commonly seen in movies.

Oh, and his kissing skills have definitely improved. ;)

The casual bitterness that infused his relationship with his mother, where they repeated a well-known dance with each other over and over so often that their hurtful words no longer seemd to really hurt either of them, was a deft touch. Most teen movies would milk that relationship for cranked-up angst and teary show-downs, and yet this was more truthful to reality, IMHO. And it made their final small reconciliation, accomplished in few words and without maudlin sentiment, sweet and true without being cloying.

Overall, I'd have to say that I didn't find it to be a typical, formulaic movie. It had the potential to be, from a general plot outline perspective. But I found that all of the characters had depth, and avoided clichés in rather interesting ways. Altogether, there was enough genuine emotion and turning of formulaic themes upside down in it to keep it interesting. In fact, I’ll admit to finding it a delightful film.

I don't know if I'll have more to say before I watch it again, but thankfully it is one I do want to watch again. Unlike that other one…that Ash one. You know. Ashes in my Coffee? Ash for Sunday? Ash something, anyway. :D

Originally posted by Narya Celebrian
I'm back! Thank you all for your concern, and I am happy to report that the walking in Ash Wednesday did not cause any permanent damage to my psyche. However, it did take several days to recover from the really bad repetitive music, and a course of therapy to purge the bad!script!illogic!stoopidness from my short term memory. I feel better now. :p I would like to watch the EW parts again, but that would involve actually buying it, and I'm not sure I want to support Ed Burns' habit. Do you suppose there's any way to do a directed purchase - you know, one where I could designate that all funds from my purchase go directly to EW? Or the SPCA? Or orphans in Africa? Anywhere but to Ed Burns???? ;)
If you don't mind the money going to someone who's just trying to make a buck, there are 11 used copies for sale at amazon :p (at about 1/3 of the price of a new one). And none of it would go to Ed ;) .

I was reading a lot of reviews yesterday and couldn't remember what I'd read where, so just checked back to see if this was the movie where someone had said, "No wonder there are so many used copies for sale." But, surprisingly, it wasn't. Even more surprisingly, the reviews posted by people who've watched it are positive, and there are all kinds of wonderful comments! I've always liked reading the reviews at amazon (whether I end up buying from them or somewhere else) because you're getting the thoughts of real people instead of advertising hype. But this one makes me wonder :eek: ! Maybe it needs a reality check from some Faculty members :p .


The usual teen movies use the overacting, super-expressive teen as their model, and while this does represent a portion of the teen population, the one I most relate to is the inscrutable teen, the cynical teen, the one who keeps a brittle shell between himself / herself and the world.
...which seems to be the type of teen Elijah usually played (past tense in the hope that he won't be playing teenagers any more :) ). Maybe because it's so different from his real personality? [Speaking of teenage roles, is any of the "Mort the Dead Teenager" info new, or is it all recirculation of old talk?]



Try 17 spoilers [Do we still need spoiler warnings for it, now that it's in wide release?]


The casual bitterness that infused his relationship with his mother, where they repeated a well-known dance with each other over and over so often that their hurtful words no longer seemd to really hurt either of them, was a deft touch. Most teen movies would milk that relationship for cranked-up angst and teary show-downs, and yet this was more truthful to reality, IMHO. And it made their final small reconciliation, accomplished in few words and without maudlin sentiment, sweet and true without being cloying.
I knew it rang true to me, but couldn't quite say why... This says it very well, IMO :) . Especially regarding the phone call at the end.

One thought that just came to mind regarding Jones's ability to put pieces together: When he makes that phone call, he's figured out that his father left because his mother got pregnant ("Because of me")--in fact, that seems to be why he makes the phone call. But he misreads his mother. Which, from my experience, is exactly what would happen.

Overall, I'd have to say that I didn't find it to be a typical, formulaic movie. It had the potential to be, from a general plot outline perspective...
...and from how it started. In those ways, I like to compare it to Bumblebee--it starts out with cliches and then gets interesting by turning them upside down (IMHO).




End of Try 17 spoilers

-----------

On Oscar buzz--There's one positive I can see in the current "talk." Not positive in terms of Elijah winning or being nominated, per se, but in the way his role in the movie is viewed. Except for Viggo (where the buzz doesn't seem to be lasting), all the talk for RotK is regarding nominations for best supporting actor. It's part of the strength of LotR-the-book that it doesn't really have a "main character" (one of the questions that's been debated for 49 years without resolution). And it would be terribly difficult to pick a "main character" out of the movies--which IMVHO is the way it should be. Frodocentric as I am, I truly believe that's one of Tolkien's main themes (that no one "saves the day" alone), and I wouldn't want the movies to change that.

The fact that Elijah hasn't been mentioned as a best supporting actor nominee says to me that people are having a hard time classifying his role as "supporting," while at the same time finding it difficult to call it a "lead." Lack of pigeonholing capability has always been part of LotR, for good or for ill, and I think this situation just emphasizes that quality all the more. If Frodo were clearly definable as a supporting character, IMO Elijah's name would be on the list of possibilities along with Sean and others. I hesitate to call this a "problem" in the overall scheme of things, although it might keep Elijah out of the running for an Oscar for RotK.

But this is all before anyone has seen the movie!! If Elijah blindsides the process by blowing everyone away on December 17, but the voters still can't decide how to classify the character, I hope they'll be aching to nominate him the next time he does a substantial, brilliantly-played role. And I could see him being good enough that by the end of the 3.5 hours, there won't be any doubt that he's the lead. It wouldn't be the first time he's "stolen" a movie.

Edit: That's all on the acting side. Best picture and best director are another story--I'm all for the hype of RotK there. And I think it's a crime that Howard Shore and Ngila Dickson can't be nominated again :mad: .

-------------------

One comment on whiteling's mention of courtly love (which was also part of Francis of Assisi's life, BTW :) ): One passage I like to refer people to when they call book-Frodo "asexual" is the moment Frodo first lays eyes on Goldberry. If we accept Tolkien's use of the literary conceit of the authorship of the Red Book (which I do, because he sticks to it perfectly throughout LotR), all the information in that part of LotR was supplied by Frodo himself. What I see in his description of Goldberry are the thoughts of a gentleman who's emotionally and physically attracted to a woman whom he's very conscious belongs to someone else. With the added realization that other people are going to be reading it. IMHO, Frodo has a good bit of chivalry in him (or, as Huck would put it, "chivalressness" :) ).

Hi everyone,
The discussions of the last weeks were as always very interesting, and I'm really upset of not being able to take part in them on regular basis. :(

On "Try Seventeen"
Narya Celebrian,
I'm so glad to know there is one more person at the Faculty who likes Try Seventeen!

Just yesterday I bought the DVD disk with the movie and also watched it tonight. By the way, in Russia this film on DVD in English version still has a name "Try Seventeen"… And when I found out that this "try 17" is an actual line from the movie (and especially - the context of this line!), I laughed a lot… :)

And after this watch I have to admit – I like the movie even more than in theater.

Firstly because I finally was able to listen dialogues in English ( in our theaters almost all foreign films are dubbed in Russian).... So there was an additional pleasure from perfect voice acting of EW and other actors…

And secondly, the DVD gives additional opportunity to estimate small details of acting - delicate changes in facial and eyes expression. I realized again how strong Mr. Wood is in it! I'm still surprised how briliantly this young actor is capable to transmit delicate internal life of his personage to the screen - in motion, in development… Even when Jones keep silence, his eyes and subtle changes in mimics and body language tell what's going on in his brains and in his soul. This is a very good work by EW.

I also agree with tg and Narya - for me Jones is very believable teenage character. I confess, Jones reminds me myself in this age, too. In my 15-17 I had good brains and strong imagination, wrote essays and draw pictures, but also had a lot of problems in communication with other people. I was unpopular and "strange" in my class - a "white crow" as we use to say… I also survived a similar family drama (dad, whom I loved, leaved the family and forgot about us; difficulties in relations with mom)… So in my teens I was very much like Jones – having strong, intent and creative inner life, but outwardly being selfcontained and timid, constrained and non-expressive. And I also protected myself from life problems and dramas escaping in the world, created by my imagination… I WAS Jones in many ways. May be because of it I perceive this movie and this character so easily, without any problems?

On EW and Oscar for Frodo role.
I completely agree with Mariole, Blossom, whiteling and all the others who say that Frodo is more challenging and complicated task for an actor than Aragorn. Yes, I like Mr. Mortensen's work but I estimate EW work in LOTR mush higher.

But – alas, my dear ladies! - I'm afraid that in the point of "recognition of his achievements" in LOTR Mr. Elijah Wood is doomed to share the fate of Mr. Frodo Baggins. How it was said in "The Gray Havens" chapter?

"Sam was pained to notice how little honour he (Frodo) had in his own country. Few people knew or wanted to know about his deeds and adventures; their admiration and respect for some vague were given mostly to Mr. Merriadoc and Mr. Peregrin and (if Sam had known it) to himself".

I'm afraid the same will happen after the end of Jackson's LOTR. The lords of the movie will be Mr. Mortensen and Mr. Austin - real brave action heroes. They will get all professional admiration and respect. And nobody (but us ;) ) will want to know about deeds of Mr. Wood. Well, people in general prefer bright and victorious heroic tales, right? The story of self-sacrifice, patience, fortitude (and the tragedy of deterioration of a personality on this hard way) couldn't become as popular in general opinion. They will call Mr. Baggins a looser who almost let everybody down, I bet... if not a traitor. :(

And Mr. Wood almost for sure will become a victim of this perseption of Frodo. I can bet, EW even will not get a nomination for Frodo… This is absurd, but this is life… :(

I only want to hope that possible Oscar and hype for Sam and complete non-recognition for Frodo will not damage a friendship between Austin and Elijah. Sadly, this could become a very hard test for their relations.

Wow, Rikka, brilliant post! You gave me chills.

I think your comparison of Mr Wood's fate to Frodo Baggins' is spot on. People love their shiny clean action heroes. I do hope that what you say does not come to pass, and that Sean Astin and Elijah Wood will find their friendship strained, although I'm afraid that is a possibility. Dom did report Elijah being annoyed over Andy Serkis getting another copy of the One Ring. He might feel a little bitter, in that he carried so much of this movie, and all the recognition is going to Viggo and Sam, and all the new movie roles to Orlando!

Lots to ponder here. I'll keep my fingers crossed. I think the absolutely worst scenario would be Elijah in a run-off for BSA with Sean Astin -- and lose. That would sure take the heart of out me.

On another note, I love all the new Try 17 reports. Glad to have an actual teen perspective. I wish I was in the target audience for more of these films. I'm afraid only see most of them Ibecause EW's in them.

Blossom, congrats on finding your One Key-ring. Hooray for all the wonderful, honest people in the world.

The Oscar speculation is depressing. But to give it a different spin--didn't Adrien Brody win best actor for The Pianist? Definitely not the action hero. Sensitive sufferer. Votes do sometimes go to the sensitive sufferers. And Frodo saves the world to boot. I think he has a chance once the movie is out.

I am so glad that others have found 'Try Seventeen' to their taste! :) (Even if Ash Wednesday has left us with rather a different flavor. :p ) Mariole, I would adore it if the Faculty (or some portion of it/them/us?) could get together for an EW film festival! What a great idea! I might even be able to get through Black and White, if there were others to share the trauma!

Rikka, what a wonderful insight about EW/Frodo being overlooked in favor of more action-type performances. Thank you for that, too, as it may help me get through the award season. May the fates prove us all wrong, and EW get nominations (that's all I ask) and much recognition for his work.

it may be some consolation that the early buzz for Eternal Sunshine (by those who have seen it) suggest that he disappears into that role, too. :cool:

whiteling: lovely image! Is that the Codex Manesse? I love courtly love. :)

Oh, Bunnie, you may be right about EW being too old to play Mort now.

The eternal optimist is me believes that because:
Originally posted by mel headstrong
the diversity of Frodo's scenes can't come out before the movie comes out, cause they would spoil Cirith Ungol, Mt Doom, the Grey Havens...
and because I've seen Frolijah in FOTR (and TTT) and I've heard Orlando Bloom and Ian Mc. compliment him on his ROTK work, that, come December 17 (or actually after the media reviewers get their early showing of ROTK), there will be major mainstream Elijah Wood Oscar hype.

Originaly posted by tgshaw
I think it's a crime that Howard Shore and Ngila Dickson can't be nominated again :mad: .[/B]
What? Why not?

Great posts the last few days on AW, Try 17, the FauxHawk, etc.

edit--hi peaceweaver! An EW Faculty hoot, I'm there! How about LOTR next summer, then a little Huck Finn and Bumble Bee (maybe if I don't watch Radio Flyer right before and I have moral support I can keep from rolling my eyes and laughing through the making the go-cart scenes) and a few others, then finish up with Ash Wednesday and Black and White when we're good and tipsy. :)

Originally posted by tgshaw
It's part of the strength of LotR-the-book that it doesn't really have a "main character" (one of the questions that's been debated for 49 years without resolution). And it would be terribly difficult to pick a "main character" out of the movies--which IMVHO is the way it should be.
That's a really good point, tg. I think that's more the case than a bias in favor of action heroes -- in fact, I think the fact that Aragorn comes across more as a traditional action hero makes Viggo a weaker candidate for Best Actor than Elijah (though given Elijah's age, neither is particularly strong).

The difficult thing about these movies is that the acting is so good across the board, but there isn't one single clearly-defined lead character, and the female roles are pretty small, that the movies are left with a whole pile of possible candidates for Best Supporting Actor. One might think that a pile of technical nominations and few acting nominations means a weak movie acting-wise (think The Matrix), and that would fit existing biases about sci fi/fantasy movies, but in the case of these movies, the difficulty is too many strong performances.

Maybe the Screen Actors' Guild will recognize them for best ensemble this year.

I hope Eternal Sunshine turns out to be a really good movie and a really good performance. Now that it will be released a year late, that might be Elijah's best hope for serious recognition of his acting.

My local video store has "Try 17" (well, "All I Want"). Hubby's gone this week. I rented it. Next time I post I might actually be able to really be on topic for this thread. :cool:

Mel

Hello, Rikka--wonderful comments, as usual. I miss your insights when you're not able to post them :( .

Originally posted by mel headstrong
...in fact, I think the fact that Aragorn comes across more as a traditional action hero makes Viggo a weaker candidate for Best Actor than Elijah...
I agree--"action hero" often goes with popular recognition and big bucks, but as alyon pointed out it's not usually connected with an Oscar. And that's definitely part of the...
...existing biases about sci fi/fantasy movies...

And I hope it's not just "sour grapes" on my part, but I'm actually glad Elijah hasn't been in the roles that have gone to Orlando (and Billy) to this point. I don't know how the "Homeric hero" role will come out, and Billy may be up against himself in two best picture nominees, but IMHO so far they've mostly been "action" roles. Am hoping for good things from ESOTSM, and hoping and praying for a great role for Elijah under a wonderful director--soon!

Maybe the Screen Actors' Guild will recognize them for best ensemble this year.
Oh, I really, really, really hope so! It's too bad the Oscars don't have that category. It would be the absolute best award for the actors in these movies.

After FotR, I said I'd rather see Elijah not nominated at all than be nominated as supporting actor, and I expect to feel the same way about RotK (could have handled it in TTT, since the story was so split up). That's even more the case if Sean A. is nominated for best supporting actor--as Mariole said, I'd hate to see the two of them be up against each other. Besides any relationship difficulties--which I hope they'd both be mature enough to avoid--it would split the vote and make it less likely for either of them to win. I'd hope if Sean was nominated and Elijah wasn't, they'd each get something positive from it: Sean the nomination and Elijah the fact that the voters didn't consider him "supporting." Since the Academy does tend to like the suffering hero type, and should certainly be able to appreciate Elijah's acting, I can't see any other reason Sean would be nominated and Elijah not.

BTW, I believe Sean is one of the voters for the Oscars. And he has been nominated before, but as producer-director rather than as actor. (After "The Long and Short of It" was made, I joked that Elijah could always say on his resume that his initial job experience as a first assistant director was with an Oscar-nominated director. :) )

kuduk--Last year, probably because it was hit with a spate of sequels all at once, the Academy made a rule that if the score of a sequel uses "themes" from the score of the first movie, it can't be nominated. There was a question as to whether that would apply last year, but the Academy did stick to it, not nominating either Howard Shore for TTT or John Williams for whatever-Harry-Potter-movie-was-made-last-year (both had been nominated the previous year and probably would have been nominated again if not for the new rule). I don't know the specifics on the costume, etc., side of things, but IIRC there was a similar rule made for some of those awards. Maybe someone else knows more about that one.

------------

Personally, I just want Frolijah to keep everyone in their seats waiting to read the credits (who was that?), after knocking them all out of their seats, and capture the role in a way that will go down in film history :cool: . That's not asking too much, is it? And that he has control over--as opposed to how the Academy members decide to vote next year :rolleyes: .

Hi Faculty!


I'm not 100% clear on how the nominations are made for the Academy Awards - maybe someone could clarify this for me? I seem to remember from the post FOTR (or was it TTT?) run to the Oscars that there were ads in Variety for both Ian McKellan and Elijah, but when the nominations were announced it was Ian who got the spot. I seem to remember some criticism of New Line's approach to this, in that it might have reduced the chances of one or the other.

A faculty moot/EW film festival sounds like a wonderful idea. Just give me a bit of notice so I can save the air fare!!

Narya, I really, really, really enjoyed your step by step review of Ash Wednesday. :)

TG said: Am hoping for good things from ESOTSM, and hoping and praying for a great role for Elijah under a wonderful director--soon!

Me too!

I've been reading various reports on LiveJournal from fans who were at Collectormania this weekend, and I've collected some snippets that I thought were interesting/enjoyable.

These are from a Q&A with Elijah and Sean Astin:

Q: Would either of you like to do theatre work?
EW said, “Yeah, that’s a muscle I haven’t worked yet and would love to…Billy and Dom have done it and have been encouraging me to try.”

Q: What about directing?
Both said they’d like to do this – and later on someone asked EW if he’d like to do music videos and he was enthusiastic about this. Sean said he didn't think you could grow up around this business without wanting to direct at some point.

Q: Which out of EW’s films did he like best?
EW said “The Ice Storm”
SA - Now I can't walk into a restroom without thinking about it.
EW - It's all molecules, man, you're eating your own s***.
SA - [cringes]


Q: What would EW have studied if he had gone to university?
EW: English. Definitely English literature.

Q: Who is the real hero of LOTR?
EW: “Sam is, because he picks Frodo up when he can’t go on anymore, and is so unfailingly loyal…”
Everyone cheered (EW: "Accept your heroism.") and SA looked very bashful until saying “OK, I rock!” He then said that Sam was nothing except what he is in relation to Frodo – Sam would have killed Gollum and they would never have got to Mordor. He added one of the challenges was how to make the scenario dramatic – Frodo is essentially holding a 10K weight and he can’t drop it or the world will come to an end (SA: Sam can encourage him, say keep going, but it's still Frodo carrying the weight.
EW - [quiet voice] that's really beautiful.)
– which isn’t very interesting to watch, so you have to dramatise the internal struggle, which EW has really nailed, especially in the 3rd movie which is extremely frightening. (EW was touched by this and patted SA’s shoulder saying “Aw!”)

Q: Have you read the books?
SA said proudly that he had, three times. EW: "I'd like not to answer that…" and then added that he felt he came to the story through the character and was surrounded by the world of Tolkien and did not need to. "Forgive me?" SA said that EW had in fact read at least the first book and a half, and that he (SA) and read some passages out to him. SA explained he had not read the books before the film as he did a degree in history and American literature and so had not come across it until his agent rang him and told him about it and said he had to get an English accent by that Thursday for an audition…

Someone asked if we were going to get to see EW’s audition tape on the extended DVDs and EW said yes, he thought there was a plan to show all their audition tapes on the DVDs eventually, and a blooper reel – they’d already put together a 15 minute blooper reel for the wrap party but there was a lot more. PJ is also working on another 2 hour documentary about the making of the film. EW also said that he loved SA’s audition tape and it was the best thing he’d ever done!

Q: We’ve heard that the costumes got pretty smelly, especially Viggo’s – what were yours like?
EW said theirs weren’t that bad, he liked the texture and he liked the smell, it reminded him of Frodo.

Q: What is the most unusual gift a fan has given you?
EW blanked out and said there were just so many, but he did keep them. SA said he was really touched by someone at Comic Con giving him a signed first edition of Douglas Adam’s “So Long and Thanks for all the Fish.” SA said he was going to talk about the generosity of the fans in the book he’s writing about the experience of making the films, as it has just been astounding.
(Later on he also showed off a badge someone had given him with “SAFETY MONITOR” on it).

Q: Have you every played a character you did not like?
Someone suggested Sandy in Flipper. EW looked kind of weary, closed his eyes: "You had to mention Flipper," and said he didn’t mind the character, he’d only done it to be with the dolphins.

Q: Will Frodo have everything taken from him in ROTK?
EW: “You mean… will I get naked???” (much laughter and whooping). “Well, not everything, but nearly though” (winking).

Q: What directors would you like to work with?
They both gave great long lists, including David Lynch, Spike Jones, Chris Cunningham, Mike Mills (EW), Woody Allen, Brian de Palma, and Scorsese (SA).

Q: Which was the hardest scene to shoot?
SA: The council of Elrond because there were so many different sight lines, and trying to make it interesting.
EW: “The mountain scene with you! Plus, any scene with Gollum..”

~~~~~

Hope you enjoyed those snippets! There's some great stuff in there, some burning questions answered, and from all accounts they were lovely, charming and entertaining all the way through the weekend.

Bunnie, thank you! :k

I really snickered at that exchange about the molecules. Well, that *is* a very memorable scene; - so it's nice to know EJW and SA agrees. :D

And woo-hoo! We're actually going to see the famous audition tape!?! That is just too :cool:

I don't know what to say about that CU half-spoiler. Seems keeping the rating won out over being true to canon.... :mad: That's too bad, although it wasn't unexpected. If ever there was a scene where they really should, and could, have defended following canon...... Oh well, we'll see soon enough.

Thanks, Bunnie--and how like Frodo and Sam to declare each other the hero.

originally posted by Maeglian
I don't know what to say about that CU half-spoiler. Seems keeping the rating won out over being true to canon....

Yeah, I'm wondering about that too. A Knight's Tale had that great nude scene with Paul Bettenay, and it was PG13. Maybe there are laws in NZ about actors under a certain age being involved in nude scenes, however tastefully they are done. Does anyone know about this?:confused: And, perhaps it was filmed to look like a nude scene, but wasn't in reality.

Elijah in a G-string, anyone?:eek: :D

*SWOON........* *thud...*

Thank you Bunnie for all your hard work! I always knew *our* hobbits would declare the other one to be the real hero. That's why we love them so much. Their humility shines through, as actors, and as the characters they portray on screen. Sweet Elbereth, I can NOT wait until December.

Maybe there are laws in NZ about actors under a certain age being involved in nude scenes Well, if so then nothing would have prevented them from bringing in a body double.... they did that often enough in these films otherwise. :D Seriously though, it has to be the rating that prevents the movie CU scene from following Tolkien's canon.


Otherwise, I'm fairly gaping in astonishment at the summaries of the Q & A. A lot of intelligent, interesting questions, as opposed to the usual teenyspeak drooling&squeeing! And we've actually gotten answers to several of the questions we concocted in here some time ago. Stage acting, going on the net and opinions about that, favourite film. :cool: This is great!

(In case there are any Facultiers who don't read the Harem, you may not know yet that Ghyste, Samantha and Elenya actually met EJW and SA and Dom and others. Elenya even kissed Elijah - I wonder if she'll *ever* come back down to earth. ;) )


Last but not least:

Congratulations Faculty on our 1 year anniversary at KD ! :) :)

It's been a good year for us, KD's been a great place for the Faculty to call home.

A huge and sincere thank you to Moggy! :k

A couple more things that I didn't put in the above group:

What Elijah want to do in about 5 - 10 years is direct, produce and own a record label :cool:

And he poked fun at himself: "I am such a nerd." (Can I say here how much I adore him? No? Okay, I won't. :D )

And he showed his tattoo without hesitation, and then he lifted his shirt a bit higher and showed his scar from the appendectomy. So, another question answered. Though, maybe that one would have been more appropriate for the Hugs thread. :p ;)



Has it really been a year? *boggles* Well, happy anniversary to us at KD! *throws confetti* :)

Originally posted by Angelica
And, perhaps it was filmed to look like a nude scene, but wasn't in reality.
This is my guess, FWIW.

Maeg, thanks for remembering the anniversary. I knew it was there, but didn't really think about it; I'll always remember it was right around this time, as I came home from my enforced vacation ("It was mostly the deer's fault." :D ) to find my PM box stuffed full. And I was driving back to Omaha after my mom's birthday when the deer ran into me--you'll note how I very carefully do not say that I ran into the deer :p ; even the sheriff agreed with that assessment ;) .

Anyway, congratulations to the Faculty, a renewed welcome to all who've arrived in the last year :k , and a huge Thank You to {{{Moggy}}}!!!

Edit:---Oh, and I keep forgetting to say that there's another page of Osgiliath pics up at my website, starting when Sam first grabs Frodo when he's putting on the Ring and ending after their tumble down the stairs. And a rather mediocre Tolkien essay for October--afraid my focus is off lately, with too much energy taken by other parts of RL :rolleyes: .

tackles Bunnie in appreciation!

What great reports from this Collectorwhateveritis! I know some of the Haremites made it--with excellent results :) --but I didn't expect so many of the Faculty's compendium of questions would be addressed! Thanks so much for the sleuthing that brought these nuggets to us, Bunnie!

"I am such a nerd" I love it! That may be my new sig, if you don't mind.

And a whole year here! Yay! Happy Anniversary, colleagues! And a big Thank You to Moggy for taking us in when we were homeless and set adrift. :)

A whole year since tg's, um, interaction with the deer, even if it was mostly the deer's fault :D I love it! Life and art intermingling!

Edited to add:

ToRN has just posted this link, which is a report from the same event, though a little crabbier than the Haremite reports! It has pictures, though.

http://www.iansmith.co.uk/lotr/weblogs/Oct4th2003.htm

Peaceweaver: The positive reports in the Harem and the Garden have focused on the Monday when only the LoTR actors were present. However, Samantha and I also attended on the Sunday with some of our Buffy friends and it was indeed a nightmare of huge crowds, organisational structures that weren't capable of dealing with them, disappointed and angry punters, crying children and screaming fangirls.

Thank you, BB! I'm also loving all these Collectormania reports. I have to admit, I'm a little disappointed in the CU revelation (or lack of revelation, as the case may be), but I can hope that tg is right and that it's filmed to look ... complete. I just don't think that hobbit underdrawers, however interesting they may be from an anthropological standpoint, would have quite the same gravity. However, I mustn't prejudge. PJ has surprised me before (both pleasantly and un-, unfortunately). :D

But I don't think nudity has much to do with a PG-13 rating. I can't remember offhand, but I do recall seeing "family" movies with nudity in them. I think it's how the nudity is handled. As CU will not be a "sexual situation," I can't see how artful shadows would not have sufficed. However, we'll have to wait for the movie to form our opinions (or an outraged gang, as the case may be).

Great news about the blooper reel and the audition tapes being included on the final DVD. The Star Trek ones have always been hilarious, and I can't wait to see what this group does. The friendship among them has got to lead to some pretty silly situations.

Congratulations, Faculty! Wow, one year. I think I only first starting peeking in here around February. What a wonderful forum this is. Thank you all for feeding my addiction and helping soothe over the rough spots in this crazy LOTR ride. It's delightful to find a group of kindred spirits out there who revel in the same things I do with wit, intelligence, and kindness. Bravo, Faculty! Or perhaps, Brava!

Kuduk, I love your list of movies for the Faculty filmfest. I might even be able to view Black and White if I had enough moral support. But I'd have to be extremely tipsy to sit through Ash Wednesday again. Then again, it ought to be included, just so we can experience the madness as we all leap for the "fast forward" button... :p Hey, Mel, maybe we should form a Colorado contingent for movie viewing. We can pick up the folks in the midwest who are too far from a coast (or the right coast) to otherwise form an erudite and disorderly crowd. Something to think about. :)

Originally posted by Mariole
Hey, Mel, maybe we should form a Colorado contingent for movie viewing.

You unnerve me. Whenever I go visit my pals at Media*West, I say I'm checking in with the Colorado contingent. Do you suffer from my fondness for alliteration or do we have friends in common?

I keep thinking tg's the most centrally located. Not volunteering her place, though. ;)

I, too, think CU will be filmed so he looks to be nude. I can't see PJ changing that.

I'm with estella rose in being unclear about how the Academy Award nominations work - although I think I've heard there are suggestions but people can also write-in a vote? No idea where I picked that up. I like the idea of an ensemble award. Don't see it ever happening, though.

originally posted by Alyon
But to give it a different spin--didn't Adrien Brody win best actor for The Pianist? Definitely not the action hero. Sensitive sufferer. Votes do sometimes go to the sensitive sufferers.

I think the real strike against EW (besides his youth) is that LOTR is a fantasy. I can't remember any actor winning an award with a fantasy or s-f movie - haven't paid any attention for years, but I remember StarLog articles grumping about that. Back when I was more active in that aspect of fandom, all you could realistically hope for in terms of Academy Awards with an sf or fantasy movie were special effects, music, and other "behind the scene" sort of awards. Don't know if this is still the case, and I'm too lazy to go check. :p

BLOSSOM,
Good to know your keychain turned up again! I didn't actually lose my Frodo and Sam keychain (not an official release - pic of them watching the elves in plastic), but the guy who is supposed to be doing the kitchen had it in his pocket for eight months along with all his other junk and it's pretty scratched up. :mad: I need to get a real live membership for Media next year so I can buy a new one, I guess. Such a trial. ;)

originally posted by Rikka
I'm afraid that in the point of "recognition of his achievements" in LOTR Mr. Elijah Wood is doomed to share the fate of Mr. Frodo Baggins.

I've thought this before. I liked whiteling's "Courtly Love" idea, too. And that one I hadn't thought of before. :p Makes sense, though, particularly with Frodo. That's kind of the relationship he has with Galadriel, I think. Although I suppose it could be argued that it's Gimli who's the most courtly of all!

Enjoyed your reviews, Narya.

Happy KD anniversary to the Faculty! And another welcome to all who joined since then. If anyone wonders, the very first Faculty post to the original thread at Imladris was on December 22, 2001. :)

To quote Nufurion:


Frodo had the look of a person who had been
given the worst job imaginable in middle-earth and
Elijah Wood made me believe it - to the point
where I was fighting back the tears on **several**
occasions.

Well done to a fellow who I didn't think could
act.......


We haven't changed much, have we? :D

originally posted by Angelica
Sweet Elbereth, I can NOT wait until December.

Yeah. What she said. ;)

Sheryl

Just want to say a BIG THANK YOU from the bottom of my heart, FACULTY!
I'm so glad about this marvellous place! And you all and your wonderful posts have brought more colour and spice to my life...

http://www.kurts-smilies.de/dance.gif
http://www.kurts-smilies.de/band.gif
http://www.kurts-smilies.de/rock2.gif



(Peaceweaver - yes, the image on the previous page is from the Codex Manesse (for anyone who's interested: this link (http://www.manesse.de/manesse0-9.shtml) leads to the complete collection of illuminations, wonderful images of minnesingers, first quarter 14th century).

Originally posted by shilohmm
I keep thinking tg's the most centrally located. Not volunteering her place, though.
Well, hey, I'll offer Omaha! And if everyone wants to squeeze into my one-room apartment (the "ladies' room" for the floor is down the hall) and watch the movies on my 13-inch computer monitor (for DVDs or VCDs) or my 13-inch TV screen (for VHS), you're very welcome :p ! After all, I do have the entire collection of EJW movies (except for the one I'm still looking for :( ). We can start with Child in the Night and work our way straight through--there's only 23 :p ! (Of course, that's not counting theatrical and extended versions separately.) There are 24 movies listed on my website because of Spy Kids, which isn't out on video/DVD yet.

----A bit more seriously, though, there's a nice but not too expensive hotel about three blocks from my apartment. It even meets the approval of my "high-maintenance" sister :) . And DVD players and wide-screen TVs can be rented ;) . ---- So when's everybody coming? :) Can't think of any way to entice Elijah to Omaha, though... :(

OTOH, Colorado would actually be within driving distance for me. But a little east would work, too, and I'd love an excuse to spend a couple of days in, say, Chicago :) .

I'm with estella rose in being unclear about how the Academy Award nominations work - although I think I've heard there are suggestions but people can also write-in a vote?
For nominations, I believe the various groups can vote for whoever they want to (cinematography people nominate for that award, etc.). The "For your Consideration" ads are just that--ads, reminding the voters about your "product." But I'm pretty sure that once the nominations are in, the final votes are limited to that list.

I think the real strike against EW (besides his youth) is that LOTR is a fantasy. I can't remember any actor winning an award with a fantasy or s-f movie - haven't paid any attention for years, but I remember StarLog articles grumping about that. Back when I was more active in that aspect of fandom, all you could realistically hope for in terms of Academy Awards with an sf or fantasy movie were special effects, music, and other "behind the scene" sort of awards. Don't know if this is still the case, and I'm too lazy to go check. :p
Yep, still the case. FotR and TTT did incredibly well for "speculative fiction" movies, just by being nominated for best picture and best director--unheard of. If RotK picks up either of those awards, which at least some pundits are predicting (for best director, at least), it would be an absolute first!!! Same with a major acting award. It goes back to science fiction and fantasy being categorized/stereotyped as "action movies." If any movie can break out of that stereotype it should be LotR/RotK, but the Academy tends to stick with its old ways.

I'd be less surprised to see the movie as a whole be recognized than I would be to see a particular actor be nominated. For that award, you've got the added "handicap" of all three movies being ensemble productions, which will give an excuse to any voter who wants to avoid recognizing a character who's been made into an action figure :rolleyes: .

Edit: whiteling, the top and bottom gifs are funny enough that I'm waiting to see what will pop up in place of the red-x in the middle when the whole page manages to load :D !

BTW, both of my big-city sisters think Omaha has a fantastic zoo. Among other attractions, it has a special habitat with all kinds of penguins--including rock hoppers ;) .

Originally posted by tgshaw


I'd love an excuse to spend a couple of days in, say, Chicago :) .


With two Faculty members here in Chi-town, tg, who needs an excuse?:) :) Peaceweaver can show you around the Art Institute, and I can show you the best shopping!;) And if you like water, we both live near the beach--a couple of blocks in one case, and a couple of miles in the other. You have to like (or at least tolerate) cats, though, if you visit either one of us at home.

Hard to believe it's been a year in our new home. A great big Thank you, Moggy! for being such a terrific host.

Somehow it seems poetically just, although tragic, that Elijah's Frodo is likely to suffer the fate of book Frodo with regard to lack of recognition and honor by his own kind. But, when I so much as look at the latest ROTK posters (has anyone seen the pic of the Japanese theater poster at TORn?) his image alone is so powerful that it sparks a hope that maybe, maybe when they see him in ROTK, the groundswell of Academy support will propel him to the top!

Just a dream.

Goldie loves to shop, she does!

relurking

Originally posted by Goldenberry
With two Faculty members here in Chi-town, tg, who needs an excuse?:) :)
When I was going to school in Dubuque, all I needed was a three-day weekend and a friend with a car :) , but now that the entire width of Iowa has been added into the trip (and I have to drive my own car ;) ) it takes a bit more planning. I'm very happy being plunked down just about anywhere in the vicinity of Lakeshore Drive--I love the Art Institute and Shedd Aquarium, but I could live in the Field Museum :cool: !!

(And Goldie can have a great time in--the place with the little waterfalls running beside the escalators?-- :confused: Watertower Place??--if it's still there.)
...his image alone is so powerful that it sparks a hope that maybe, maybe when they see him in ROTK, the groundswell of Academy support will propel him to the top!

Just a dream.
Yes---I keep hoping that even the most jaded Academy voters are capable of being swept off their feet... at last :) .



...and speaking of dreams... go Cubs! :cool:

happy anniversary, faculty!

About the semi-nudity spoiler: I know I joked about hobbit skivvies in the Harem, but in all seriousness I can't imagine that the design team would set up anything that looked visually ridiculous. I interpret "nearly naked" to mean one of the following things:

1) Elijah was not naked; Frodo will be seen only from the waist up so nobody will know.

or 2) Frodo will be huddled in a pile of (artfully and strategically arranged) dirty rags and will appear to possibly be naked underneath them but we won't know.

After all, Sam's line isn't "you can't go walking in the Black Land in naught but your boxer shorts" :o ;) .

I'd even be willing to make a bet on this. If I lose, I have to watch Ash Wednesday, Black and White, and Tom Thumb & Thumbelina back to back. Oh, and rent Flipper. I won't even rent Flipper, let alone those others.

But I can't rent the first three here, so I'd have to go visit Mariole and let her inflict them on me personally.

Given the apparent post-CU pictures with Frodo in the remnants of his Shire clothes, I had been worried that the whole losing everything bit was out -- and I don't care about the details of what's seen or not seen, I just want the emotional impact of being totally bereft. And it sounds like it's there.

About Oscar talk: Read the Collectormania Q&A with Elijah and Sean again. There's no way one would resent it if the other one got nominated for an Oscar. Sean would campaign like anything for Elijah, and Elijah would do the same for Sean. I get the impression that there's just too much mutual liking and respect for either one to be anything but happy about recognition the other would get.

Also, Sean's a good person to be nominated for PR purposes for the movie. He's a good sport, willing to do the interviews and talk up the entire project and everything. So is Elijah. (Whereas Viggo is such an eccentric that he really isn't a good PR person at all.)

All I Want:

I like the understated humor of it. I guess I can see why it's not a typical teen romantic comedy, but I liked that. Even the downstairs neighbor was understated (given what a wacky character he was) -- the combination of the absurd situations and understated acting was good, I thought.

But... Elijah needs to play something other than the young-looking geeky picked-on guy who can't get a girl unless he saves the world or at least drives her 2000 miles. :p I hope his character in Eternal Sunshine isn't the geeky guy who can't get the girl unless he wipes away her memories of her real lover. :p

(Frodo's the exception to the characters Elijah's played since puberty.)

I don't think I could sit through 23 Elijah Wood movies. That's why I'm mostly a Faculty lurker, not a serious participant. Once was enough watching most of the ones I've watched...

Mel hoping for a Red Sox vs Cubs series... Go Red Sox!

Just dropping in to say CONGRATULATIONS on your anniversary, Faculty! :cool:

And I'm glad to see you talking about a moot. It's about time! Having visited Goldie this summer, I can vouch for Chicago as a great place to meet. The shopping is indeed fabulous. :cool:

While you're in the mood to travel, any and all Faculty members are welcome to come to NYC for Naked Gandalf Day in January. It's not meant to be just for Haremites, but for all KDers. Go here (http://www.khazaddum.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2207&perpage=25&pagenumber=1) for the lowdown. :)

I just read a ROTK article from "Daily Variety," (posted over at TORn) and buried in the third page is the very interesting comment that New Line will be campaigning for Viggo and Elijah for Best Actor. It further goes on to say that Sean Astin and Ian McKellen would be their noms for Supporting Actor.

edit: here's the link for the entire article:

www.theonering.net/scrapbook/group/1029


here's the link for the page mentioning the nomination strategy:

www.theonering.net/scrapbook/group/1029/view/8906

another edit;) : I also posted the link over at the ROTK Spoilers thread, just to catch those readers that don't frequent the Faculty Lounge.;) :D

Thanks for the good news, Angelica! I'm actually glad Viggo is so out front this time around, because last time it seemed like Elijah was doing all the movie PR practically single-handedly and I sympathetically wore out on his behalf. I like that New Line is keeping his buzz quiet for now -- I hope he shocks everybody with ROTK! Yes, heartily sick of the teenie roles, but he is cursed with that baby face. (Oh, yes, the burden of this curse...) :rolleyes: And yes, I loved the Collectormania comaraderie. What lovely gents they all are!

Mel, we'll do a Clockwork Orange deal on you and put in special eyelid proppers to get you through AW, B&W and TMTSNBN if you lose your bet and Samwise has to make the boxer comment. :D Note that I've only seen AW of these 3, and it was enough to make me run screaming from repetitive piano music ever since. Flipper is slight but it's not awful.

I didn't realize that there were 2 Facultites in Chicago when I visited there 2 months ago. It's a nice city and I'd go again. I did see both Shedd and Field Museum while I was there. Loved it!

Just a note that I'll be off at the beach for a week (actually my niece's wedding, but it's near the beach) and will be email deprived. I'll catch up with you all when I return. :k

Thank you for the links to (TORN's report of) the Variety article, Angelica. It seems that New Line does have to put forward the candidates, and the Academy decides who to run with as nominations.

It's interesting to see that PJ will be actively campaigning this year too - he stayed right out of it for TTT.

I hope you enjoy your week at the beach, Mariole. :)

HAPPY FIRST ANNIVERSARY FACULTY!

and

thanks to Moggy!

ROTK is going to have a number of ratings issues, of which Frodo's state of undress in CU is probably the least concern. I know New Line is extremely keen to maintain the PG13 rating. This rating would permit some non-sexualised nudity. However, I guess it would actually be filmed as Mel suggested. As someone else has said, as long as there is the impression of Frodo being stripped of everything ('everything!'), of his vulnerabilty....

I'd better stop there. :(

guess what finally arrived at the library for me today.:eek:

I requested it months ago, and was hold number 5 when I did. Can't figure out why it's so popular.:confused: (Unless there are more EW fans in St. Louis than I realized!:cool: I did have to check out "Ash Wednesday" to someone a few weeks ago - I can only hope that they checked it out for the right reasons.;) :D ) Anyway, I haven't gotten up the nerve quite yet to watch "Flipper.":rolleyes: :o

Angelica - thanks for the news!!:k Yay Sean and Ian and Viggo and Elijah!:D Wouldn't it be awesome if Sean won Best Supporting Actor and Elijah won Best Actor (not that I have anything against Ian or Viggo, but...) and PJ won Best Director and ROTK won Best Picture and...

Okay, so I'm dreaming here....:o But I really hope that Sean and Elijah at least get nominated. And I think both Sean (from interviews) and Sam (cuz he's Sam) would think it appropriate for SA to be nominated for supporting actor (I know there was speculation a while back that he would be nominated for Best Actor) to Elijah's Best Actor.:cool:

Originally posted by Mel
After all, Sam's line isn't "you can't go walking in the Black Land in naught but your boxer shorts"

:D :D

In the midst of the CU speculation, I'm trying--unsuccessfully--to keep the Rankin-Bass RotK out of my mind :eek: . Very kind orcs in their version of Middle-earth: they let Frodo keep his pants on (and I don't mean just his skivvies).

Originally posted by Mariole
...Yes, heartily sick of the teenie roles, but he is cursed with that baby face. (Oh, yes, the burden of this curse...) :rolleyes:
I've gotten a kick out of watching Jones pull his little trick to convince people he's of legal age, knowing that Elijah was of age when it was all being filmed :D ! I imagine there was more than a little kidding about that on the set ;) .

Just a note that I'll be off at the beach for a week (actually my niece's wedding, but it's near the beach) and will be email deprived. I'll catch up with you all when I return. :k
Ahhh, sounds relaxing. Have a great time :) .

Originally posted by Mariole
Thanks for the good news, Angelica! I'm actually glad Viggo is so out front this time around, because last time it seemed like Elijah was doing all the movie PR practically single-handedly and I sympathetically wore out on his behalf. I like that New Line is keeping his buzz quiet for now -- I hope he shocks everybody with ROTK! Yes, heartily sick of the teenie roles, but he is cursed with that baby face. (Oh, yes, the burden of this curse...) :rolleyes: And yes, I loved the Collectormania comaraderie. What lovely gents they all are!

Well, everything she said. :D Have fun at the beach, Mariole!

I've kinda been staying off my modem in the evenings because of rainy stormy days so I'm just doing some catching up now. :p Real terrific news about Elijah & Viggo being candidates for Best Actor nominations! I'm late to the discussion, but I thought I'd also pipe up that while there's always this bias against sci-fi/fantasy amongst mainstream awards folks (the Emmys rarely nominate Fantasy TV shows either) I think it's safe to say action is not the pre-requisite for the Oscars. That the Sam and Aragorn characters get to engage in some action stunts isn't half as important as the fact that those two characters have the necessary humble/reluctant servant/hero rising to the moment whilst dealing with internal angst type arc that the Academy adores as much as the 'character with mental/physical impediments that are overcome before closing credits' type. IMO it's very fair that Sean Astin and Viggo would be named this eary on as Oscar contenders; esp. since Viggo is the aforementioned 'King' in the title of the movie! And Sean Astin's job isn't easy either - his Sam can't be overshadowing Frodo's role.

Now we just need to wait for Elijah to totally blow everyone away and have them saying why they never envisioned that he could do that. :) :cool: True, his age will probably be held against him - which I find hard to be unhappy with at the moment, because I'm hearing that Bill Murray, for one, just might have a chance at a nom too, and if it's a choice between a veteran like Murray and Elijah ... sigh ... even I would feel slighted for Murray if a young kid (much as I love him) gets a shot when Murray's been ignored for so long - but just the idea of Elijah getting on Finalists' Lists will be more than worthy.

Bunnie - thanks so much for compiling the Q&A! :k Yes, finally, stuff we would be happy to know about. There's still one nagging question I wish had been answered: what on earth is Elijah doing right now, exactly? His day job is acting, yes? So is he like, working at all?! I guess I'm speaking off the cuff here, but what is he still waiting for? I was thinking that he's being very particular and careful about his choice of roles to follow up LOTR ... but there is the problem about waiting too long, isn't there? He's not the only young talented actor out there, and even the ones with less talent can learn on the job and could conceivably eventually become better than him! :eek:

Quickly ducking any trouts ...

HAPPY ANNIVERSARY TO US!

Thank you, Moggy :k


And I don't know why you guys are still undecided about the Faculty Moot. Look, the tropics - that's the place to be, right? Where the sun shines eternal (unless it's the monsoon rainy season. like now). Where you get the best fried anchovies ever. Where DVD copies are shelved. Where the currency is cheap. Where a brand new IMAX theatre opens early next year. How many times do I have to keep inviting you guys, fer goodness sakes? :p :D


Originally posted by Maeglian
(In case there are any Facultiers who don't read the Harem, you may not know yet that Ghyste, Samantha and Elenya actually met EJW and SA and Dom and others. Elenya even kissed Elijah - I wonder if she'll *ever* come back down to earth. ;) )

Oooh! :cool: :cool:

edit So you have 'Flipper' now, Bridget? Watch it for the shark! The Sandy & shark action sequence! :D

Mel, you don't actually have to watch 'Black & White'. Just go to the end of the movie, during the credits. Elijah and Brooke Shields, yeah baby!:p

In watching 'Ash Wednesday', it helps to fast-forward through all the walking. Makes the movie about half as long.:D

And, erm, 'Flipper' may have a lame plot, but it's much more enjoyable, IMHO, than a lot of movies I've seen.:) :) :)

A Red Sox-Cubs World Series would be a great thing. As long as the Cubs won it!

EW review I ran across (from Film Jerk):

Elijah Wood On...
The Last Lord of the Rings Movie:
I think it's going to be great, definately. I don't think it's like anything you've seen before. I'm really excited about how it's going to turn out. (We) have invested so much time and energy and love into it, and really, at this point we're hoping that everyone like it as much as the first two movies. Peter Jackson has done an amazing job and I don't see how this film could turn out as anything but extraordinary. It's going to be crazy.

His Hobbit Likeness:
I never really thought of myself as looking like a hobbit, but I guess now it's pretty hard to imagine me as anything but. Me and the others, after a certain point we just kept calling ourselves "the hobbits", and everyone thought we were either really strange, or just staying in character. It wasn't anything like that, but we felt that we made each of the characters our own it was like they were really who we are. I think I'll always be Frodo on some level.

His Blue Eyes:
(laughs) I get asked about that a lot. It's funny, because I don't really think there's any big deal about it. I remember someone once asked me whether they had added any computer effects to make my eyes look more blue. I mean, the whole idea is ridiculous, don't you think? Half the time I don't even think they really look all that blue, but I guess, you know, if it gets brought up a lot there must be some truth to it. But really, there is a whole lot more to me than the eyes! Trust me!

Bad Habits:
I do have a lot of bad habits, and I'm not very proud of them at all. Some of my friends have been trying to get me to stop smoking for ages now. They've tried everything from "You'll die" and "Some people don't date smokers". I have been trying, but it hasn't really been working out. I guess I really have no self control. (laughs) As you can see I'm probably a very bad role model.

What He Thinks About the Internet:
I do visit some of the fan sites sometimes, but I try not to stick around too much. It feels very voyeuristic, reading what people think about you and what they're saying. Most of the time they're really kind and supportive, and it's good to have that kind of intangible fan base... if that's the right word to use, but sometimes there's some stuff that's really ... There's this rumor going around the internet that I'm gay and I'm with Dominic Monaghan, who plays one of the other hobbits. It's really weird. They write stories where we get married and have kids and all that stuff. It's pretty interesting, actually. (laughs)

What’s Next:
I've just finished a movie called "Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind", with Jim Carrey and Kirsten Dunst. It definately something different for me. Well, you know you can't go wrong with Charlie Kaufman. It's about a couple who are trying to get their memories erased, and basically I'm one of the technicians helping out in the procedure. It sounds like a very scientific, science-fiction kind of movie, but really it isn't. I liked pretending to be some sort of scientist. It made me feel smart.

Originally posted by ainon
...There's still one nagging question I wish had been answered: what on earth is Elijah doing right now, exactly? His day job is acting, yes? So is he like, working at all
Well, he did just about die not too long ago, y'know :eek: ! Takes more than a few days to get over a ruptured appendix--takes weeks or even months. I wouldn't be surprised if ComicCon was one of his first post-appendectomy public outings. Just before that incident, IIRC, he was in Australia working on Happy Feet.

...even the ones with less talent can learn on the job and could conceivably eventually become better than him! :eek:
ummm.... No. ;) That presupposes that what he does can be learned, which IMVHO is largely not true. Sure, he can learn techniques to improve the gift he has naturally... They may capture a lot of the jobs he passes up or end up with better careers, but become better actors? Nah! Inconceivable :cool: .

Financially, of course, he doesn't need a day job (or a night job) for the rest of his life... but, yeah, selfishly I'd like to see him do as many movies as possible :) .

...Where DVD copies are shelved. Where the currency is cheap. Where a brand new IMAX theatre opens early next year. How many times do I have to keep inviting you guys, fer goodness sakes? :p :D
Maybe we could get a grant from the Malaysian government--or the movie industry--to pay for our plane tickets. Tell them we want to investigate movie piracy :p :D .


BTW--Wonder if Mumbles will have to deal with any sharks!? :D
-----------

Thanks for the interview quotes, Sheryl. I'm glad to hear that Elijah still feels there will always be something of Frodo in him.

Good-sounding things for RotK, too: "like nothing you've ever seen"; invested "time, energy, and love." :) :)

Actually, someone just pointed out elsewhere that the interview is a fake! It's not actually on Film Jerk's site; been dummied up to look that way, but hosted elsewhere. A search of Film Jerk won't bring it up. I thought some of the phrasing was off, but figured it was just me. I also didn't notice the date and thought it was an interview done at Collectormania (most of it probably is a "from memory" retelling of what he actually said there) - it showed up after Collectormania, but it was dated a month back.

Oh, well, sorry about that. I'm still looking for a good transcript of some of the stuff from CollectorMania. I wonder if anyone even taped those interviews - all I've seen was "from memory". *sigh*

Sheryl

Hullo All,

I'm new here. I heard about you all from Alyon who contacted me after she read an essay I wrote on F&S. If you want to know more about me, pretty much all the pertinent stuff is here (http://www.frodoandsam.net/essays/honeyelf.html) in my essay.

This looks like a fun lively place! One board that I had just begun to post on, shut down. And on TORC where I usually post, things have been pretty quiet lately.

I enjoyed reading the last couple pages of posts here. I'll go back and read the earlier ones as well. I think I'm with all of you when I say that I hope Elijah makes a lot more movies! As I told Alyon, I think it would be fun to see EJW play Dorian Grey. With that beautiful, youthful, innocent-seeming face he'd be a natural the way I see it. And he's so expressive, like a silent film star. I think it would be fascinating to see him play "evil."

I'm really looking forward to Eternal Sunshine... (is that a long title, or what?) The Charlie Kaufman films I've seen so far have been really wild rides. No wonder Elijah said he wasn't sure what happens in ESOSM; Kaufman's films have a way of looping back on themselves in weird and wonderful ways.

Shilohmm, too bad that interview was a fake! I was really hoping EJW was at least trying to quit smoking! :rolleyes:

One of my friends on another board got to meet Elijah at Collectormania. She says he and Dom both told her that they cried through the whole last hour of RoTK. I can't wait. Unlike Bilbo, I won't be leaving home without plenty of hankies!

Well, thanks for letting me stick my nose in! Hullo to you Alyon!
And to everyone else as well!

Originally posted by honeyelf
She says he and Dom both told her that they cried through the whole last hour of RoTK. I can't wait.

hueupophft!

(that was me swooning face-first onto my keyboard). Oh, the angst anticipation!!!


Welcome, Honeyelf!:) Wonderful essay.:) (You're more than welcome to visit The Goonies' Garden (http://www.khazaddum.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1292) for all your Sam-loving needs, btw.;) :D ) I think you'll fit right in here!

Originally posted by honeyelf
Hullo All,

I'm new here. I heard about you all from Alyon who contacted me after she read an essay I wrote on F&S.
Lovely essay, honeyelf. I never stop being amazed--and thrilled--at the many different paths we've all taken to step onto the same Road. Thanks to so many people, beginning with JRRT. Welcome, welcome. (I also tend to spout lines from the book and/or movies, even when talking to people who don't realize it :) .)

As I told Alyon, I think it would be fun to see EJW play Dorian Grey. With that beautiful, youthful, innocent-seeming face he'd be a natural the way I see it.
A part almost made for him, it would seem--both in appearance and in his ability to show undercurrents in a character that aren't obvious on the surface.

And he's so expressive, like a silent film star.
That's an interesting way to put it--yes, IMHO that's what makes his screencaps so worthy of study, admiration, etc., etc. You really don't need any sound--or even dialogue--to tell what's going on. But never thought of comparing him to a silent film star.


I'm really looking forward to Eternal Sunshine... (is that a long title, or what?) The Charlie Kaufman films I've seen so far have been really wild rides. No wonder Elijah said he wasn't sure what happens in ESOSM; Kaufman's films have a way of looping back on themselves in weird and wonderful ways.
Yes, yes!! If it's anything like "Being John Malkovich" I know I'll love it. Elijah said awhile back that since LotR no one's had the [***ahem***] to send him any more fantasy scripts, but I'm glad to see he seems to be drawn toward surreal--or even a bit weird--movies. I enjoy them and he has a particular talent for them. And they tend to be movies that have to be watched over and over and... ;) to get all the layers. Perfect EJW movies, IMHO. (If you haven't seen Chain of Fools yet... it fits right in.)

Shilohmm, too bad that interview was a fake! I was really hoping EJW was at least trying to quit smoking! :rolleyes:
Ditto :( .

Well, thanks for letting me stick my nose in!
Hope to see it often ;) .

honeyelf, WELCOME! Thank you so much for sharing that beautiful essay. You're right at home, here with us. :k And your friend's report is making angst-anticipating hearts very, very glad. ;)


Originally posted by tgshaw
Well, he did just about die not too long ago, y'know :eek: ! Takes more than a few days to get over a ruptured appendix--takes weeks or even months. I wouldn't be surprised if ComicCon was one of his first post-appendectomy public outings. Just before that incident, IIRC, he was in Australia working on Happy Feet.

Yeah, okay I'm properly chastised. :) But that was why I was talking about 'day job'. Not that I would know what an actor's 'day job' is really like, but I'm guessing that like most jobs, results are always the most important thing. There're enough famous pretty faces with dismal talent out there who're getting all the jobs because they're there. (whether they succeed in the long run or not has to be a function of luck - it defies logical explanation after all how some talentless hacks still remain in the business, raking in the dough)

Financially, of course, he doesn't need a day job (or a night job) for the rest of his life... but, yeah, selfishly I'd like to see him do as many movies as possible :) .

Well ... selfishness was my motive for wondering about him :p But it can never be bad to want more EW movies, right? ;) Sigh. I just don't want a riveting career cut short by typecasting, or whatever. :rolleyes: Meh to me. Sorry.

Gotta get around to watching Charlie Kaufman's 'Adaptation' soon. I can get a DVD copy of that. I should. I watched 'Being John Malkovich' primarily for John Cusack, and I loved the movie and Cusack's work in it.


Btw, definitely apply to giant Hollywood studios for that study grant. Call it "Impact Study on the Averse Effects of Movie Piracy on the Distribution of Original/Remade/Hommage/Plain-rip-offs of Japanese Horror/Adaptated from Books/Comics/Plays/Silent Movies/God-Knows-What Motion Pictures, and the Incremental Beneficial Effect on the Airline Industry and Increased Influx of MootRing Tourism to Asia."



----------------

I read this exchange on a movie site message board. I don't know. I just had to sorta plonk it here. The Faculty has never quite looked at 'North' from this angle. :p

from a thread about film critics or somesuch
Well, Roger Ebert hated hated hated hated, hated.... North. That's right, the inoffensive, kind-hearted movie featuring Elijah Wood suing his parents, and Bruce Willis in a bunny suit. Why Ebert hated that movie with the force
of a thousand suns, I'll never know. It still annoys me.


Huh. That's interesting.

http://www.suntimes.com/ebert/ebert_reviews/1994/07/931635.html

Yeah that's it. I don't mind reviewers firing off a barrage at a film they thought sucked, but it's gotta be a suitably sucky film. Something offensive, like Gigli or Battlefield Earth. I can totally understand someone not liking the film, and I've agreed with a lot of Ebert's reviews. But with this one it's almost as if before the screening he learned the film had been sleeping with his wife and was wearing his favourite pants and smoking his pipe.

"Hated it. Hated every simpering stupid vacant audience-insulting moment of it. Hated the sensibility that thought anyone would like it. Hated the implied insult to the audience by its belief that anyone would be entertained by it."

It's North.... It's just North.

Roger Ebert generally doesn't like brain-insulting garbage masquerading as a family film and I don't blame him. North was pretty bad. Besides, there were parts of it that would scare kids, like when the kid pretends to have been
shot in the head.

ainon's note: the discussion ends there, alas. it was just starting to get interesting, I thought. :o :D

Originally posted by honeyelf

Well, thanks for letting me stick my nose in! Hullo to you Alyon!
And to everyone else as well!

Greetings, honeyelf! Glad you decided to join us.

Just popping in quickly to drop off another version of EW's answer to the "everything taken from him" question.


Q. Did they stay true to the book, in the scene where Frodo has everything taken from him.
A. Elijah. Everything? "Wait, hold on a second..." [Elijah gets off his stool turns slightly, bends over a bit, bringing his hands in front of him as if tied, pauses there then stands up again] Answer: not quite everything but almost.

That's for the angst mavens. :D

Sheryl

Sheryl, you know that short description just stopped my heart, right???

Darn, those defibrillation paddles leave marks!!

Welcome, honeyelf! I enjoyed your essay!

Originally posted by Narya Celebrian
Sheryl, you know that short description just stopped my heart, right???


I am totally envying those who were there. My last quote was from an LJ, and from memory, this one is from the discussion board at Bit of Earth, and an actual transcript!:



Questioner: You've BOTH got good hair! So basically, from things I've read and stuff I've got the impression that you are both interested in film-making. So if you could have directed ANY film..what would it be?

Sean: A film that has passed already? Patton or Lawrence of Arabia.
Elijah: Delicatessen? or Goodfellas. Or Bottle Rocket. Has anyone here seen Bottle Rocket? [noooo!] Has anyone seen Rushmore? [yeeeeeeeeeeeees!] OK so if you've seen that, go see Bottle Rocket cos it's the director's first movie. Good stuff.

*****

Question: My question is for Elijah. I’m a big fan of your role in Chain of Fools ..What I want to know is if you are interested in having more roles like that ..

Elijah: more edgy?

Questioner: ..with guns and things?

Elijah: Oh that was a blast! I mean to play a 17 year old hitman who’s completely unsuccessful at what he does - it was awesome!

Questioner: And he likes Cats, so that’s good!

Elijah: Yes - I had a blast. I’d love to do more things like that. I’d love to do more comedies you know - especially comedies like that - that are so sort of strange and weird and brilliantly written - it was wonderful. Unfortunate that it didn’t come out in theatres.

I don't think she's done transcribing that - I'll try to remember to check later to see if there's more.

Sheryl

Welcome, Honeyelf! :)


Sheryl, thank you so much for bringing us those various snippets. Please continue! Of course, that CU-related one registered very clearly on my angst-o-meter!


That Roger Ebert review of North was quoted way back when in here (and this is *way* back when! I think it was one of those posts that disappered when the Faculty was moved from Fandom to the Prancing Pony at Imly!) I found it via a movie review database, at a time we were discussing impact of bad reviews for EJW's kiddy roles, - how reading something like that must not have been very nice for a young actor..... (I still remember this only because of the totally far-out language of the review. OK, so he hated the film and is entiteld to say so, but *really*.... :rolleyes: )


I still visit CoE on occasion. Some little while back, there was this thread called "Who will be this trilogy's Mark Hamill?" that was interesting to read, because the posts were considered and not out to bash anyone (including Mark Hamill). Nearly all posters had EJW up for consideration, although not everyone landed on him as their no. 1 choice. I really do hope EJW will continue acting in movies, and get good roles, because I think he's a fantastic actor that I'd like to follow in future. He should be remembered for more than Frodo (although, that's *certainly* not the worst role to ever be remembered for !) But like ainon I've been thinking that at present it seems like he's been taking time out to do a lot of other things than signing on to interesting new roles. Of course, he never needs to act another minute of his life if he doesn't want to, and it's not for me to speculate. I only hope that filming LotR didn't burn him out more than he's been letting on in interviews.

Is this possibly one of those things that gets a bit out of proportion because we're so focused on Elijah? His "lack of work," I mean. Since main shooting for LotR ended, besides all the reshoots for that, which kept him busy for awhile each year, he's done two movies that had fairly substantial shoots--Try 17 and ESOTSM. Two that were very quick--Ash Wednesday and Spy Kids. And is working on Happy Feet, on which his work might be finished or almost finished. We know he's had "meetings" and read scripts, been out on the PR trail, and--hey--read "Me and My Cat"!! :p Not even Orlando Bloom's been busier than that, has he? Probably the most frustrating part of it (for us) is not knowing what's next.

Interesting differences between Elijah and Sean on what movies they would have liked to have directed--Sean's epics and Elijah's small (except for Goodfellas), quirky films. Elijah said he's not wanting to do any more "epics"--at least that's how he's feeling now--so he might not be as visible as some of the other actors, but I guess I'm selfish, too, in liking to see him in those kinds of roles. If they can at least get to the "art house" theaters :rolleyes: so we can see them. He mentioned Chain of Fools not making it to the theaters--wonder if he knows it never made it to video or DVD in the U.S.!

I'm basically sitting here rambling to keep my mind off the fact that the tickets for the Triple Play went on sale today and I can't get to the theater to buy any until after work tomorrow (the theater that's showing it here doesn't sell tickets on line). Keeping my fingers crossed that there will be some left :( . And the fact that it's my own #*@*&$# fault that I couldn't get there today (long story :mad: ) doesn't help any.

The used DVD I'd ordered of Forever Young came yesterday, though :) .

----------
BTW--

The one part of North that actually bothered me was making a joke out of sending the grandfather off to die. (And, I was disappointed that it didn't have the "guts" to stay a fantasy til the end... but that's just me.) I actually liked Bruce Willis's character, and got a kick out of the scheming kid.

------But I don't think I'll ever forgive Roger Ebert for calling Hobbits "twee" :rolleyes: in his review of FotR.

Hey, HoneyElf!! Glad to see you found your way over here!!!

Just a note for those still looking for trilogy tickets. Lots of reports of online sites going down and tickets looking to be sold out. We found out in Seattle that tickets LOOKED to be sold out because of online glitches, but they weren't. The only way to get tickets after a point was to go to the theater--and since most people didn't know that (since the theater said they would not sell at the box office until the 10th)--there were very few people making their way down there from what I can tell. SO if it looks online to be sold out. Keep trying... at the Harem it sounds like very few people scored--but lots reported site breakdowns. KEEP TRYING.

Hullo, Alyon! Thanks for pointing me over here! This is a really lively place! I've found more than thread for 'Lijah swooning, and even one for Seanwise swooning. I'm as happy as a pig in mud! :D

Got my Tuesday Trilogy Tickies today! I'm so jazzed!

TGShaw, well let's just admit it we'd all be happy watching him read the phone book! ;)

Shilohmm, where are you coming up with all these interesting quotes? Is this stuff that came up a collectormania? Then that means...naked Frodo at CU! Oh, my!!!:eek:

Originally posted by honeyelf
TGShaw, well let's just admit it we'd all be happy watching him read the phone book! ;)


Realizing that some of the newer folks may not know about this epic that I mentioned earlier:

http://www.bookpals.net/storyline/index.html

Just click on "Me and My Cat?" on the lefthand side of the page (feel free to hover a bit before clicking, if you want ;) ).

Much better than the phone book :p !

And if you go back to season 1 by clicking on "More Stories" at the bottom of the column, you can find Sean reading "A Bad Case of Stripes"--so cute! You can tell he's used to doing this :) .

-------------

FWIW--During primary filming, one of the Sindarin experts was on set watching the CU scene and reported the "You can't go walking in the Black Land in naught but your skin" line being filmed. In fact, IIRC, he said that line was done repeatedly before PJ was satisfied with it, so this should be one scene that's had PJ's undivided attention to detail :cool: .

alyon makes a mistake with her post. alyon tries again. later (the phone rings!!)

I love the Dorian Grey idea, HoneyElf!!!:)

I'm glad you ladies like my Dorian Grey idea. Too bad we are'nt the movie producers, right?:) Maybe it's a good thing we aren't; we'd probably wear the poor dear out!

TG I'm well acquainted with "Me and My Cat. Elijah has obliging read it to me many times! :D
"...stroked me until I purred." :D :D :D

You know I love Sean A as Sam, but I just couldn't get over the impression that he was using his best politician voice when he read "A Bad Case of Stripes." But then just looking at him doesn't get me all....*ahem* never mind!

But anyway!

Originally posted by Maeglian



I still visit CoE on occasion. Some little while back, there was this thread called "Who will be this trilogy's Mark Hamill?" that was interesting to read, because the posts were considered and not out to bash anyone (including Mark Hamill). Nearly all posters had EJW up for consideration, although not everyone landed on him as their no. 1 choice.

I think EW will escape that because he's done more than just Frodo. Hamill had been around a while, but just about all he'd done prior to Star Wars was TV - bit parts, kid's movies, failed series. EW, OTOH, has done starring roles in numerous movies. Plus, Hamill's earlier roles, as well as the first movie after the first Star Wars (Corvette Summer) were all pretty "generically angsty teenager" kind of things. EW has a much more diversified background.

I suspect Hamill *can* play other roles (he made a good villian on the TV show Flash, but who saw that aside from hubby and I?), but he was typecast as an innocuous pretty boy pretty early on. For that matter, I thought he brought some depth to Luke Skywalker that he wasn't given in the script. If only he'd done The Big Red One at the Corvette Summer point in his career... I also think his looks go against him - too bland. Male stars tend to be either more rugged or more distinctive. EW has the distinctive part. ;)

originally posted by tgshaw
The one part of North that actually bothered me was making a joke out of sending the grandfather off to die.

Ditto. Dark humor doesn't always bother me - I think the problem there was that the character was too real! Vigoda has a long history to play off of with me, so that probably made it more disturbing that it might have been with another actor - and another character! Plus you're feeling North's dismay - he found it disturbing, too.

Also felt vaguely racist, which didn't help.

originally posted by honeyelf
Shilohmm, where are you coming up with all these interesting quotes? Is this stuff that came up a collectormania?

I'm wasting much time wandering around trying to track down transcripts from the guy's panels at CollectorMania. Mostly what I've found are based on people's memory or notes, but the one at Bit of Earth is an actual transcript done by someone who has a recording of that discussion. I'm very happy about tracking that down - she's posting it in pieces parts, I think she's about halfway through. I need to grab a couple of extensive quotes from Sean for the Goonies, if no one else has, that I thought were good for some 'he's such a sweetheart" squeeing. ;)

originally posted by honeyelf
You know I love Sean A as Sam, but I just couldn't get over the impression that he was using his best politician voice when he read "A Bad Case of Stripes."

Sean made me think of a dad (and a kind of traditionalist dad at that), one who knows what it's like to do the same book over and over and over, while EW made me think of a big brother or childless uncle who isn't in the habit of doing it a lot. I've noticed when I read to my kids that I do have a distinctive "reading voice," even though I act out the parts and things.

Sheryl

edit:

TORN's got a Daily Variety article on the oscars up - why are the Oscars going to be a month earlier than usual?

Sheryl

Originally posted by shilohmm
TORN's got a Daily Variety article on the oscars up - why are the Oscars going to be a month earlier than usual?
I think that the powers-that-be thought Oscars had been overshadowed recently by all the Oscar prequels -- the Golden Globes, the BAFTAs, the guild awards, etc. That the Oscars themselves seemed a bit stale by the time it was all done. So the Oscars are going to be earlier from now on.

The other thing that's going to be different from past years is that Oscar voters aren't going to be getting DVDs sent directly to them -- they're going to have to go to a theater just like anyone else. (Though one article -- the Variety one, I think? -- said that New Line would happily rent a local theater to allow an Academy member to see RotK in its full big-screen glory in private.) There was concern about the availability of pirated copies of various movies.

It will be interesting to see how those changes affect things this time around. I suspect they will help RotK for best director and probably best picture -- if any Academy members don't know about RotK, they've been living in the Marianas Trench for the last two years. It will work against things that aren't expected to be nominees, though, the pundits are saying. Mostly they're talking about littler movies that don't get wide distribution until they get nominated for awards, but it might hurt Elijah for acting honors as well. (Though I imagine that anybody who doesn't absolute hate the LotR movies already will be going to see RotK at least.)

Mel

Welcome Honeyelf! A lovely essay! You fit right in here, so pull up a chair, have a cup of tea (or something stronger, if you'd like) and make yourself at home. I'm glad you're with us!

What an interesting proposal for Elwood's next project! Just as sure as he was born to play Frodo, Dorian Gray would be perfect for him. The last version that was made was released in 2002, though, starring someone named Josh Duhamel (anybody know that name?). The classic version was filmed in 1945. I think it's time for a redo!

Interesting that you should mention Mark Hamill, Maeg. Today's USA Today had a little piece on him. He has just made a film about fandoms! And he shot it at ComicCon this year! :eek: But it focuses on fans of a WW II style comic book. He's all grown up now, and has become a director.

ainon, Roger Ebert can go drown himself in a bucket of popcorn. :mad: He must have been in a really crabby mood the day he watched 'North.' Not that the movie is great or anything, but it is not as bad as he made it out to be. Sure, the plot had some black holes, and everybody but EJW was overacting, but that was Rob Reiner's fault. The writing--and the cruelty to grandpa--was the writer, Alan Zweiberl's--fault. I still chuckle remembering the Amish scene in that flick.

It still seems to me that the people at NewLine must have written some sort of major restrictions into EW's contract. I mean, the commitment for the reshoots each year, the massive amounts of publicity they require of him--all of that was probably stipulated by the studio before they would entrust their very future on Elijah's slim shoulders. So I don't think it is that odd that he hasn't made as many films as Orlando. There were other projects that he was in discussions for (thinks wistfully of Thumbsucker). I wonder if Elijah's agent/manager prefer to keep things quiet about future projects/prospects for him? Remember how Eternal Sunshine was announced publicly only like six weeks before the shoot began? Perhaps that is just their way of doing business?

Not that it makes the waiting for news about the next project any easier. :(

Sheryl, I too have been chasing all over the internet in search of Collectormania reports. (And thank you for posting the stuff you have found :) ) What strikes me is what sort of labor these events must be for those guys. Sure, there is some fun involved; well, it sounds like a LOT of fun from some of the reports. But it must be exhausting! It also seems apparent from these reports that EW is the big draw. NEW LINE: TAKE NOTICE!

Originally posted by peaceweaver
...Not that the movie is great or anything, but it is not as bad as he made it out to be. Sure, the plot had some black holes, and everybody but EJW was overacting, but that was Rob Reiner's fault...



North spoilers (If anyone cares...)
Hmmm... also ended up needing a fantasy purist rant warning :eek:





And even the overacted stereotypes and the plot holes make some kind of sense at the very end of the movie--but that's a little long to wait if you're seeing it for the first time and sitting there trying to figure out what's happening. I mean, I was thrilled when the opening scene in TTT turned out to be a dream, and it even clarified some things on reviewings. But PJ didn't wait til the end of the movie to have Frodo wake up!

A bias of mine, I know, caused by the childhood trauma of seeing The Wizard of Oz movie after I'd already read and fallen in love with the book. I was shocked, horrified and dumbfounded when the movie ended with her waking up instead of running across the fields towards home after being deposited back in Kansas. Ever since then I've cringed whenever a "fantasy" story turns out to be a dream, the result of a knock on the head, or some other altered state of consciousness. Makes me feel that the writer either doesn't trust the willing suspension of disbelief or thinks it's "unhealthy" to allow children to experience it. :rolleyes:

And North actually takes it a step further by using the "It was all a dream" revelation as a deux et machina ending--there's no way that bullet wouldn't have hit someone.

BTW, North is the only EJW movie based on a book where I haven't been able to lay my hands on a copy of the book--not even a used one. So I'm left to wonder if the movie took some liberties with the ending. But it does seem the book's author was also in on writing the movie. Later edit: As I was typing this, I realized I hadn't checked around for used copies for at least a year. Found 20 on sale at amazon, so more research may be forthcoming :) . LotR's bringing everything out of the woodwork, isn't it :p ?

:confused: Gee, and I started this with the intention of saying that North really wasn't all that bad--which it wasn't. I basically didn't like the eskimo sequence and the ending.




End of North spoilers and fantasy purist rant






It still seems to me that the people at NewLine must have written some sort of major restrictions into EW's contract. I mean, the commitment for the reshoots each year, the massive amounts of publicity they require of him--all of that was probably stipulated by the studio before they would entrust their very future on Elijah's slim shoulders.
I've wondered about that, too--and there's the added factor that someone wanting a lead actor for a movie that's going to have a long, involved shoot might shy away from casting someone who still has other obligations that could take precedence (which I'm guessing the contract would have given to anything regarding LotR). I also agree that "playing things close to the vest" seems to have been the style for EJW & Co.--I can't believe that there isn't some kind of planning going on for really-post-LotR work.

So I don't think it is that odd that he hasn't made as many films as Orlando.
And I can't make the numbers come out saying that Orlando actually has made more films. More visible ones, yes... but IMHO that has a lot to do with the kinds of roles/films Elijah gravitates toward. And some of the other actors don't play things close to the vest, so we hear about some of their projects long before they actually start.

What strikes me is what sort of labor these events must be for those guys. Sure, there is some fun involved; well, it sounds like a LOT of fun from some of the reports. But it must be exhausting! It also seems apparent from these reports that EW is the big draw. NEW LINE: TAKE NOTICE!
The big draw, someone with a lot of energy, and someone who understands "fandom" from within, you might say. Elijah may not be front-and-center for RotK publicity as he has been for the first two movies (because of, let's just say, "what happens to Frodo," so as not to spoil the story for those brave souls waiting it out til December 17 :k ). But I expect he'll be around for a lot of these fan-type gatherings, even if some of the other actors (or PJ) do more of the "let's talk about the movie you have opening this weekend" interviews.


[i]from Mel
The other thing that's going to be different from past years is that Oscar voters aren't going to be getting DVDs sent directly to them -- they're going to have to go to a theater just like anyone else. (Though one article -- the Variety one, I think? -- said that New Line would happily rent a local theater to allow an Academy member to see RotK in its full big-screen glory in private.) There was concern about the availability of pirated copies of various movies.
I don't suppose it will surprise anyone that my first reaction to this was, "What?! No crebain for screencapping RotK before the DVD comes out :eek: ?!" The Malaysian breed that landed in my mailbox for TTT had "For Your Consideration" written across the screen often enough during the movie to leave no doubt as to its heritage :o .

But, yes, in the broad scope of things--beyond my screencapping addiction :rolleyes: --the policy should help the more widely-known movies, which hopefully will be positive for RotK. (BTW, it also couldn't hurt a movie that really has "full big-screen glory." ;) )

tg,
Has Orlando had more major roles in his since-LOTR movies? EW's done more movies, but some of those were minor roles - Spotless Mind sounds minor, Spy Kids was a cameo, Ash Wednesday was shot in a hurry, I think - although he was definitely the star of Try 17.


The transcript at Bit of Earth got to the "theatre" question, so here's the direct quotes:


Sean: [“collects” another question..] She asked if we’d ever considered doing theatre? Yeah - I’d love that - yeah

Questioner: I’ve read that Dom tried to persuade - especially you Elijah, to do some ..is that true?

Elijah: It’s funny ..Dom and I were actually talking about it today!

Questioner: Really?

Elijah: Yeah - I’ve never done theatre and I think that it’s a muscle that I’d love to exercise ..and it’s a very different, you know, approach to acting and I’d like to do that - It makes me incredibly nervous - the idea of being on stage in front of a lot of people - like I am [now] ! - But I would love to, I’d actually love to - and with Dom and Bill would be great.

Hello --It's 1030 on a Saturday morning and there are a million things to do. But here I am!! I am spending more time than I ever have on the computer these days. It's all because of you ladies!! It's all because of Elijah! It's all because of Lord of the Rings!! I get my coffee and sidle up to the computer not intending to turn it on--ah...but here I am. I'm too buzzed out with all the excitement. And I have to look sensible (well, only a little) in RL.

Thanks for posting the interview transcriptions, Shilohmm. I love it.

I am starting to like the idea of Elijah and theater. Yeah he is so well suited to the nuances of film--but that boy has a shine to him that you really need to make a good theatrical performance IMHO. The energy, the eyes.....think how well that would translate in a room of live people? I like theater where you are captured by a person. He could do that. And with his control--which he obviously has over his energy when he acts...I think he would be fabulous. I know this is an old topic. But Elijah brought it up again.....and the idea of it is gathering momentum in my brain. As if I can have momentum on a Saturday.

Actors tell me that it is easier for a theater actor to learn to do film than the other way around--but with a little practice and coaching, I expect Elijah could pull it off quite well.

Peaceweaver--you said it. It must be exhausting to be at the convention all day long--sitting, signing, talking. And I can't help thinking about Elijah's recent surgery because I had something quite similar in June and though I was up and about so quickly--thinking I could hike and be active, I found even 6 weeks (and more) later it was very easy to overdo and feel lousy. Sitting all day at an autograph table when you have had your intestines (and muscles) cut into probably was not comfortable... then bounding about... he's young and strong...but I still wince on his behalf.

EDIT: A nurse friend told me taking out the apendix is not technically cutting into intestine as it is just a protrusion. I stand corrected.


Carleenya? Are you still out there? I wanted to say hi because I haven't seen you here in awhile--and you were so welcoming when I joined. So Hi if you are out there lurking...

"North" was a DREAM? I didn't KNOW that! I thought he REALLY went to the those OTHER families and he was just in his ROOM fantasizing?:eek:

Was the Buffalo in "Radio Flyer" a dream, or was that supposed to be his stepfather tucking him and his little brother in bed?

Now I'm REALLY confused.

Originally posted by tgshaw
BTW, North is the only EJW movie based on a book where I haven't been able to lay my hands on a copy of the book--not even a used one. So I'm left to wonder if the movie took some liberties with the ending. But it does seem the book's author was also in on writing the movie.

Sigh. As a Stephen King fan who's had to sift through so many bad adaptations of his books in order to track down the purest gem ('Shawshank Redemption'), some of which were adapted by King himself :o, I'd guess that there's never any way to know for sure what will work and what wouldn't when a story transfers from book to screen. :p

I've wondered about that, too--and there's the added factor that someone wanting a lead actor for a movie that's going to have a long, involved shoot might shy away from casting someone who still has other obligations that could take precedence (which I'm guessing the contract would have given to anything regarding LotR).

Actors' schedules for LOTR reshoots can be adjusted, I'd think, to accomodate for the actor. Even at the very beginning of the real shoot, Sir Ian McKellen's late arrival didn't deter filming or planning. In terms of long, involved shoots, Viggo Mortensen went off and did 'Hidalgo', Billy Boyd did 'Master and Commander', Sean Astin's done miscellaneous stuff, Orlando Bloom never met up with his hobbits buddies during last year's TTT reshoots because he was shooting 'Ned Kelly'. It must be exhausting to dash about that way, but well. That is their day job. :)

I imagine the producers would have major scheduling headaches though. :p

Sheryl, off-hand I think Orlando Bloom has been seen in 3 movies post-LOTR: 'Pirates of the Caribbean', 'Ned Kelly', 'Black Hawk Down', and he's shooting that Helen of Troy thingy which has a huge ensemble cast - although other than Brad Pitt I don't know who his other co-stars are.

Thanks for tracking down and sharing those Collectormania info and transcripts! :k


shadowcatshadow - yes, it was a dream, as he sat in that big armchair in the mall.

Was the Buffalo in "Radio Flyer" a dream, or was that supposed to be his stepfather tucking him and his little brother in bed?

Nope. Dream. :o


Have a good weekend, everyone! And a hey to Carly too if you're out there lurking! :)

Phew! Lots of RL work and a following 2 and a half days lasting migraine knocked me down for a couple of days, but now I'm feeling better and can say:

WELCOME, honeyelf! :) Nice to meet you. I enjoyed your essay!


Originally posted by tgshaw

Ever since then I've cringed whenever a "fantasy" story turns out to be a dream, the result of a knock on the head, or some other altered state of consciousness. Makes me feel that the writer either doesn't trust the willing suspension of disbelief or thinks it's "unhealthy" to allow children to experience it. :rolleyes:

And North actually takes it a step further by using the "It was all a dream" revelation as a deux et machina ending--there's no way that bullet wouldn't have hit someone.



My thoughts exactly! I had not yet the pleasure (?) of watching "North", but regarding "dreams" in films I must admit I always feel myself messed around by filmmakers who declare in the last seconds of running time all what has happend was just a dream! Sometimes dreams make sense, as you said tg, Frodo's dream at the beginning of TTT or think of the outwardly visible dreaming of Stu's father in "The War". But mostly it simply annoyes me (maybe this is also Ebert's sore point, that would explain his overreacting review of "North" to some extend?)
I think, it is just a too cheap way to tell a story or to bring a plot to an end, no matter how :rolleyes:.

My late mother was a "Dallas" fan, so I couldn't avoid seeing a few episodes of it :p, you remember - Bobby Ewing's death - just Pamela's dream --- please NNNOOOOOOOO! :D

Red herrings are OK, IMHO, as long as they are used clever and help to bring thrill and suspense to the story (see Hitchcock's "Psycho", "Sixth Sense" or recent example "Identity" - hi, ainon, wow that one was really tricky, was it?).
I think, you got my meaning, so I can stop ranting.

Sheryl, many thanks for sharing the Collectormania transcripts :) !

Alyon, I'm with you concering your comment about Elijah and the stage!

And yes, hi to Carly and Blossom - are you out there?

(For those who not visit the Harem, please go there to page 529, scroll down to EvFrodo's post and click on "The Ballad of Bilbo Baggins". It's a scream!)

Edit after reading whiteling's post: Yes, dreams can be very well-used in movies. I'd go back to shadowcatshadow's example of Radio Flyer as a movie that uses dreams and fantasy elements to enhance the story rather than short-circuit it. I don't think even the fact that North is entirely a dream would bother me so much if it weren't used to bring the plot resolution out of nowhere. I think the Wizard of Oz upset me because I knew--from reading the book--that Oz did exist in the story. At that age, of course, I'd never heard the terms "secondary creation" or "willing suspension of disbelief," but I somehow knew that making the whole thing a dream just wasn't true.

-----------

I'd thought Black Hawk Down was pre-LotR. Checked IMDb, which didn't help a lot since it just listed both BHD and FotR as 2001. That one was a minor role, though, IIRC.

Elijah isn't one of the two leads in ESOTSM, but he's listed third or fourth (depending on the list) in the cast, which makes me hope it'll be more than a small part. That's one movie I'm really eager to see--and not just because EJW's in it.

--------

Some ramblings on the acting career of Elijah Jordan Wood--with my characteristic load of ()'s and --'s :p .

I simply can't get myself to be concerned about Elwood "not working." Besides believing that his commitment to LotR is probably heavier--both contract-wise and personally--than for most if not all of the other actors, he's also at a completely different stage in his career than most of the others (exceptions that come to mind are the two Sir Ians, Cate Blanchette, and maybe Sean A. who's more of a director/producer than an actor and is well-established in that career). He wasn't an unknown, unlike Orlando, Billy and Dom (if I'm concerned about any of the "boys" it's him--although it sounds as if he may be following Sean's path, adding writing into the mix). Viggo and Sean B. weren't unknowns, but I don't think they'd worked as steadily as Elijah.

Elijah's also younger--IMVHO, an actor bursting onto the scene in his mid-30's (like Billy) or even late-20's is going to be a lot more urgent about things. I doubt if Elijah would have as much of a "strike while the iron's hot" approach to his current popularity. He's been doing this for about 14 years, with an average of two movies a year, which is already a career a lot of actors would kill for. LotR has been a turning point for him, but it wasn't his "big break" as it was for some of the others. Mikey Carver was instrumental in his getting cast as Frodo (as was Casey--for the purposes of networking, which is also essential), and I'm sure Frodo will be a factor in his casting in many future roles.

While the LotR phenomenon isn't "business as usual" for Elijah, it fits into a career path that was already developing. He's gotten this far by working and climbing steadily, and IMVHO that's had a lot to do with him not burning out--or crashing and burning!--like a lot of other child actors. I'd expect him to keep following that same basic mode, but now with more freedom to take only the roles he really wants to. We know that getting burned out affects him and his acting (and if we ever forget, we can just pop Ash Wednesday into the DVD drive for a little reminder ;) ). I want him acting--and acting as only he can--for a long, long time.

As peaceweaver said, that doesn't make waiting for the next project any easier. But, let's face it, if he came out with a new movie every month, we'd still want more :) :rolleyes: .

Good afternoon, ladies. And a special hello to Whiteling. Sorry to hear about the migraine. My hubby began suffering with the same thing a few months ago, but it only affects him for a day. He says you have his sympathy. Glad to know you're feeling better now.:)

Although I've been lurking here and trying to keep up with you ladies, I have spent a lot of time this past week looking at reports on the Collectormania4 site. It sounds as though it was a bit of a nightmare - disorganised chaos, as one poster put it - and lots of disappointed fans unable to see Elijah. The lucky ones who did meet him confirmed what we already know - he's so friendly and down-to-earth - not to mention drop-dead-gorgeous, mad hairstyle or not! I had been hoping to see Shireling's report on events - I remembered her saying here she was going - but drew a blank. The good news is, according to Hobmom in The Hugs Haven, Shireling WAS there, but is still having PC problems following her recent major computer crash. Hopefully she will be able to share her adventures with us VERY SOON!

Sheryl - thanks for the snippets you've been posting up for us.

Honeyelf - Welcome. I had read your lovely essay at frodoandsam.net a couple of weeks ago. It's great that Alyon pointed you in our direction. I hope you like it here!:) By the way, I love your 'Dorian Grey' idea for Elijah. He would be perfect for that role.

I just found this at TORn:



POSSIBLE MILD ROTK SPOILERS!!!



Quote from Aintitcoolnews:


NEWS
* Johnny Bartlett, Nouveau Zealand Mega-Spy, has told us of some rumours circulating around the twin islands. It seems there’s a strong possibility that many of the LORD OF THE RINGS cast will return for additional filming next year. Why? Won’t RETURN OF THE KING have already been released? Seems the extra footage may be used in the DVD Extended Edition for ROTK. Could this be more footage for the ending that fans are beginning to sweat about? The scouring of the Shire? Or could it be for a larger LOTR box set, the Tom Bombadil sequence that Jackson said (pre-FOTR release) he’d love to go back and film? You don’t need prompting to begin rabid speculation – so get talkbacking!

END ROTK SPOILERS

Very interesting!

Tg - I tend to agree with you regarding Elijah's career. His commitment to LOTR both acting and promotion/publicity-wise has been enormous over the past 3-4 years. (It will be interesting to see how much promotion work he does this year for ROTK.) I would rather him not take on a BIG movie role too close to Frodo. I think he's going about things the right way at the moment. For the future, I just hope he is offered interesting and varied roles in order that his talent and undoubted versatility is displayed to a wider audience.

I saw this little chap, and for some reason he reminded me of Elijah!:)
http://www.imagemagician.com/images/blossom/penguin.gif

Edit: Whiteling - I just checked out 'The Ballad of Bilbo Baggins.' LOL. I'll never see Mr. Spock in quite the same light again!:D

Woo Hoo, Blossom! Is that Mumbles? :D

(((whiteling))) glad you are feeling better. :)

oh, ainon, that Troy movie for which Orlando was cast as playboy Paris ;) also has Sean Bean as Odysseus --perfect casting, IMHO-- and Peter O'Toole (one of my all time favorite actors) as King Priam. There must have been an awful lot of star power on that set!

Am v. excited, as last night I got to see THE TRAILER in full size on a movie screen! I downloaded it some time ago, but seeing it in the proper setting was mind-blowing. Cannot wait for December 17. :) :)

Hello all! Despite popular belief I am still alive, I've just been rather busy, but today I randomly decided to check back in, though I'm afraid I've completely lost the conversation. Oh well.

As far as Elijah acting in theatre, it would be interesting, and I think it would be a good challenge for him. Theatre can be very different from film and actions would need to be exaggerated MUCH more, so I think it would make him stretch, which is good. Besides, doing some theatre would be cool because he's actually be visible to the public, whereas film is usually done privately.

I have seen the ROTK trailer (actually, I saw it the instant it came out on aol :) ) and the only thing I can say is to reiterate that I need to bring my own tissues! I'm so excited, my anticipation exceeds that of both previous movies combines. AHH! I'm never going to be able to wait until December.

You guys know how they're doing that marathon in major theatres of all 3 movies? Well, first I can say I never could have gone because it is in the middle of final week. (stupid school, dont they now ROTK is coming out that week?) Anyway, tickets at the closest one came out a few days ago. They started selling at noon and were sold out by 2 pm. :-| But my friend and her brother got tickets!!! Sorry, I just thought I'd share my friend's good fortune. I would absloutely love to see all three in theatres. Sigh, oh well.

Oh, and I just rented All I Want. Very enjoyable. ;)

LetYourLoveShine

Hi Faculty,

At last, after nearly a year of regular lurking in the wings, I've found the time to make a contribution to this fantastic (in both senses!) thread. I was amazed and thrilled when I discovered there were so many intelligent and funny and erudite people out there who felt the way I did about the truly extraordinary Elijah Wood and the whole Frolijah phenomenon, and who were willing to spend so much time and energy discussing this fascinating but oh-so-arcane subject. Your insights, knowledge and sheer passion leave me in awe, and even though I've known for months that I just had to join you one day, I always had far too many things to say and next to no time to say them (my lurking is usually late at night when I should be sleeping -- like right now!). And even now I can only fit in a few. So here goes:

Roger Ebert and North: even though I've watched North more times than I care to say, just for EW of course (I went to ridiculous lengths to get a watchable video in the first place, even buying a new VCR which would play BOTH types of US standard cassette just for that!), I find it a spectacularly crappy film which (apparently) trivialises the book it's based on (which I haven't read but am told is an exploration of Jewish issues: "North's journey is a flight from, and ultimate embrace of, his ethnic identity" -- Kent Greene in tvguide.com). Even Elijah's wondrous acting and personality couldn't save that script.
But let's not forget that it was Roger Ebert who called EW (aged 13, after "The War", which postdated North) "the most talented actor in his age group in Hollywood history". Take note of THAT, New Line and Academy members!

Recent interviews: thanks a million to all concerned for quoting/reporting on those. It's great to know there are some intelligent questioners out there who gave the guys room to say something new for once! I'm relieved that they've finally been given the opportunity to laugh themselves silly in public over the Internet innuendo about their supposed sex lives, for instance. Oh, and I may be wrong of course, but the interview Shilohmm got from Film Jerk (thanks Shilohmm!) does look authentic to me -- the phraseology and the opinions sound like archetypal EW, wherever that transcript came from. I hope so -- the news that he's even considering giving up smoking is sooooo welcome! On that score, I'm told (again!) that people who start smoking before the age of 20, as EW did, tend to get more deeply hooked than those who start later -- maybe nicotine worms its way into their developing nervous systems or something. So it will be an uphill struggle for him.

The hair, the clothes, the CTJ -- yes, I'm sure EW has gone overboard to disguise his looks in the last year or so. There was so much drooling from critics and fans after FOTR about his "androgynous beauty" that he can't fail to have been embarrassed. Not just that, but EW's youthfulness, beauty and small stature all go hand in hand: I'm sure the encounter with the chambermaid ("Loot the bitch!") who called him "the little boy" has a lot to do with his recent changes of appearance, and I suspect he thinks that the weirder and geekier he makes himself look, the older and more characterful he will appear. And yet there's already "a fearful maturity", as one critic called it, he exudes together with the glow of youthful innocence. That was there from the start in Try17, and made it hard for me to take him seriously as a gawky teenager -- not that his acting was at fault; it was simply that he naturally exudes too much wisdom and knowing to be fully believable (post LOTR, anyway) in standard ingénu roles (except of course as Frodo, who is not your average young hobbit). Even in his childhood films (North and Huck being two prime examples) he was often more mature than the adults.

Which brings me to roles in general. Dorian Gray: ace idea! Pity it's been done so often before. Maybe the right film adaptation could throw new light on the story. Talking of light, reading about Lord Byron (a former neighbour of mine) having skin "like an alabaster lamp lit from within" -- and being not overly tall -- sent me into fantasies of EW playing LB until I saw a recent BBC dramatisation of Byron's life: the actor they found was so like Byron in both looks and temperament (to judge by contemporary descriptions) that I dropped that idea. Grenouille (Froschi, did your friend call him, Brunhild?) from "Perfume" is another amazing idea and would probably suit EW down to the ground in his present frame of mind. Thing is, Grenouille is as ugly and enclosed and selfish as EW is beautiful and open and selfless. The ideal anti-hero, the ideal antithesis and hence acting challenge. Süskind compares G. to a tick that drops from a tree onto its victim and sucks its blood. He exists in a capsule and gives nothing to the world: not a smile, not a cry, not a gleam of the eye, not even a smell of his own (I have to paraphrase here because I have the book only in German). Imagine EW acting someone with dead eyes and anthrax scars to add to his already ugly features! Something of a challenge for the makeup department there, I'd say. St Francis: oh dear, more Messianic roles. Maybe not. Or maybe? Would depend heavily on the ideal script.
I think EW needs to play extraordinary characters, and there are not enough of those. So how about you writers in the Faculty putting some screenplays together? Why not bounce a few ideas around? There are so many weird coincidences in Elijah's acting career so far -- and you guys are the experts at ferreting those out -- that we could be forgiven for manufacturing a few. Couldn't we?

Talking of manufacturing, spiritual gurus maintain that we manufacture our own reality simply with our thoughts.
The way to make something happen is to behave as if it's a fait accompli. So if we want Elijah to (a) be nominated as best actor and (b) win that Oscar, the thing to do is to take it for granted that those things will happen. Never, ever, allow yourself to think the contrary. And don't stop thinking it from now until Oscar night. Keep imagining him walking up those steps and taking the trophy and making that acceptance speech. They say the universe gets as many order cancellations as it gets orders, because people too often start thinking about something else instead of concentrating on their real goal. OK, I'm as bad at that as the next person, but I'm sure as hell gonna try this time.
Btw: not a chance of Elijah and Sean's friendship being compromised, whatever happens. Wasn't it Sean A. who called Elijah "a thousand-year-old soul in a 22-year-old body"? How right he was.

Lots of hugs to all of you fantastic Faculty members (and servus to Whiteling and Brunhild !) from Serena
:cool:

Good to see you back, Blossom and LetYourLoveShin[e] :) . And welcome to Serena--another German in the Faculty Lounge, I take it :cool: .

Blossom--Thanks for the little reminder of Mumbles (although he doesn't look quite like a Pixar product :p ). I've had a "beanbag"-type penguin on top of my computer monitor at work for about a month, and have given him a dual purpose. First, he reminds me of a great wallhanging I saw--a photo of a penguin, taken from the back, with his little wings held out on either side for balance as he climbs up a hill, and the words, "Until you spread your wings, you'll never know how far you can walk." :D It was supposed to be a parody of those inane "motivational plaques" some businesses put on their walls hilarious take-offs], but when I read that one I thought, "Y'know, that's the way things usually work. That really does motivate me." So the little guy reminds me to just keep pluggin' away, and also reminds me that Mumbles will be coming--some day...




Happy Feet plot speculation





We know from official sources that Mumbles doesn't fit in with the other penguins because he can't sing (now, is that perfect casting or what :p ?). I assume his name is connected with that. But with the name of the movie being Happy Feet, I think I just might have a guess of what he does have a talent for... well, it's a kid's movie; it can't be too subtle, can it? :confused:

So, if that pure speculation turns out to be true, Blossom's little guy fits right in :) ! Although I do hope for a wee bit better animation from Pixar ;) --it's the fact that they're making the movie that gives me good feelings about it.






End of Happy Feet speculation



LetYourLoveShin[e]--That happened at the theater showing the trilogy here, too. That particular theater doesn't sell tickets on-line and by the time I could get there after work they'd all been sold to people who could get there earlier. I'm still hoping to get tickets to see each of the extended editions on the big screen, though--they'll be showing FotR Dec 5-11 and TTT Dec 12-15 at all of those same theaters.

I'm consoling myself in two ways:

1.--still hoping that my "usual" theater will have a midnight showing of RotK, as they have the last two years with FotR and TTT, and I can continue my "tradition" there, which I'd actually find kind of nice. They haven't decided about the midnight showing yet, but I'm hoping that the fact that the Trilogy Tuesday tickets sold out in less than a day will let them know there's still an eager audience out there!

2.--PJ has said all along that the three theatrical edition movies will fit together into one continuous story, and the three extended edition movies will do the same thing. So, to really lead into the theatrical edition of RotK, you should watch the theatrical editions of FotR and TTT, right??? So that's what I'll be doing when those other folks are watching the extended editions in the theater on December 16.--Well, it's rational enough to make me feel better, anyway :rolleyes: .

Originally posted by serena
I was amazed and thrilled when I discovered there were so many intelligent and funny and erudite people out there who felt the way I did about the truly extraordinary Elijah Wood and the whole Frolijah phenomenon, and who were willing to spend so much time and energy discussing this fascinating but oh-so-arcane subject.
Ain't it grand?? And through board changes and all, we've hung together for close to two years now! {{{Faculty}}} Only problem is, I'm a little too willing to spend time and energy on this subject when I should be doing other things :rolleyes: ... So, although I could say a lot more in response to serena's wonderful first post, I'll just add one more note--

...I find it a spectacularly crappy film which (apparently) trivialises the book it's based on (which I haven't read but am told is an exploration of Jewish issues: "North's journey is a flight from, and ultimate embrace of, his ethnic identity" -- Kent Greene in tvguide.com).
Brunhild once mentioned that North addressed Jewish issues, but IIRC she couldn't recall the actual quote, so it's interesting to find out where it's from. I'll be reading the book in the not-too-distant future, thanks to the people who've decided to sell their used copies at amazon.com, so will have to see if that comes across in the book (as IMHO it doesn't at all in the movie). I guess, as ainon said earlier, having a book's author write the screen adaptation himself doesn't always guarantee that it will be adapted well...

BTW, there's one "very good" (as opposed to "like new") copy of North-the-book on sale for 19 cents!! Reminds me of when I was collecting EJW VHS tapes pre-FotR. IIRC, I paid 75 cents for North-the-movie. Haven't seen any of Elijah's movies on sale for that price since FotR!! :)

Okay, so I lied--still one more note :rolleyes: --
But let's not forget that it was Roger Ebert who called EW (aged 13, after "The War", which postdated North) "the most talented actor in his age group in Hollywood history".
...and we also have Mr. Ebert to thank for peaceweaver's long-time sig: "That Elijah Wood--he's smart, isn't he?" :cool:

Originally posted by tgshaw
But with the name of the movie being Happy Feet, I think I just might have a guess of what he does have a talent for...
Falling down gracefully and frequently? ;) :D
2.--PJ has said all along that the three theatrical edition movies will fit together into one continuous story, and the three extended edition movies will do the same thing. So, to really lead into the theatrical edition of RotK, you should watch the theatrical editions of FotR and TTT, right???
I'm going to watch the theatrical editions before RotK, too. Partly for the reason you stated, and partly because (at least for FotR), I like the theatrical release better as a complete package. (I like a number of the scenes on the extended version, but I like the way the music, the editing, and the pacing work in the theatrical release).

Mel

serena, welcome! It's always immensely gratifying to pull lurkers out into the light. ;) You've always been part of our little EW-appreciation corner here! Great points in your post, especially - "They say the universe gets as many order cancellations as it gets orders, because people too often start thinking about something else instead of concentrating on their real goal." Got me thinking. Darn right. :)

Great to see you again, LYLS. What, you mean the tickets were on sale for only that time? I'm still wondering if the extended versions will play here too; I really gotta try to find out.


((((whiteling)))) Glad you're feeling better. I'm in the migraine club too, so I know all about that. Meh.

Originally posted by whiteling
I think, it is just a too cheap way to tell a story or to bring a plot to an end, no matter how :rolleyes:.

Hear, hear! Oh man, and you endured 'Dallas'. <shudder> :D I never saw 'Wizard of Oz' but I'd guess that since the movie's such a classic and the ending is so well known, I'd just go with it. But the 'North' resolution felt cheap. My main problem with the 'whole movie/season was a dream' idea is that unless the person dreaming is say, Sigourney Weaver's Ripley lying in deep sleep in her space vessel for umpteen years, or some poor sod stuck in the 'Matrix' it's plain absurd to accept that entire lives with significant events can be dreamed up, complete with extended dialogue and plot twists. :p In the case of 'North', it was just too much of a suspension of disbelief. The dream ending simply diminishes the movie's value. If it weren't for Elijah, who'd want to bother with 'North' again? OTOH, movies that genuinely employ creative tricks and twists in their narrative gain notorious rewatchability value: it's hard to resist the urge to rewatch, if only to see how one might have missed the obvious clues or hints the first time round.

Btw, brief off-topic for Amazon.com style recommendation - whiteling, if you enjoyed those movies, you might also enjoy 'Usual Suspects' and 'Fight Club'. ;)


Blossom - penguin is sooooo cute. Is Pixar doing the animation for 'Happy Feet', tg? And yeah, I know, quantity isn't exactly the thing to judge a career by. 'Less is more' seems to work for guys like Daniel Day Lewis and Edward Norton, and Philip Seymour Hoffman is more often in the supporting role - but I guess I'm thinking of Elijah's age (anyone from age 15 to youngish-looking 30-something can reasonably compete with him for roles!) and the ease with which people might associate him with 'only' Frodo. I'm dying to see where he'll go with heavy-duty FrodoAngst, but I'm also greedy to see him diversifying into other stuff now! :o :p

Or at least, after he gets another haircut.

http://img-nex.theonering.net/images/scrapbook/9010.jpg http://img-nex.theonering.net/images/scrapbook/8991.jpg


Sean Bean was well-established in UK, and had done his share of baddie roles in Hollywood stuff. His and Sean Astin's were the only names that jumped out at me and made me go, "Great casting!" when I checked the IMDB list long ago beforeFotR. I don't know much of Viggo before LOTR, but something he did sure made PJ & co aware that he was someone they wanted for Aragorn.

Well, I'm already dangerously off-topic, so I'll just step off the ledge, shall I? ;)

peaceweaver: Sean Bean as Odysseus --perfect casting, IMHO

:eek: Sean Bean? He's in it?! :cool:

ainon is suddenly deeply interested in all things manly and Greek :D

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
quote: Originally posted by tgshaw
another German in the Faculty Lounge, I take it
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Well, not quite, but I do go shopping in Germany some Saturdays ....


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
quote: Originally posted by tgshaw
"Ain't it grand??" and "I'll be reading the book in the not-too-distant future"
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Youi said it, babe!
Looking forward to your North review (the book, that is).


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
quote: Originally posted by ainon
It's always immensely gratifying to pull lurkers out into the light.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I bet, and you can't believe how good it feels to be standing here blinking in your headlights (well, maybe sidelights). Also feel a bit like Samwise stretched out on the table by Gandalf.

More on Oscars: I too would not begrudge Viggo an award/a nomination for the world if he wasn't up against Elwood on this occasion. I adored Viggo in that role (as practically all the cast - especially Sean Bean and the other hobbits) and have huge respect for all he put into it -- but the prize for depth and complexity has to go to EW.

More on Elwood's career: the difference between him and Orlando has to be that Orlando fitted a gap in the mail-order screen heartthrob catalogue. Elwood is different - he's far more unusual, and hence far more interesting to people who look for something beyond the bog-standard action hero. He also, let's face it, would not look right in most of Orlando's roles (except perhaps the journalist biopic I hear Orlando recently took on - a British film? - but I know too little about that so far). Unusual roles and characters are much harder to come by than standard Hollywood ones, and I suspect that's one reason EW isn't doing that many films right now. He just needs the right material.

On that note, has anyone heard any more about EW considering the part of Einstein (in his early 20s) in a film version of Steve Martin's play "Picasso at the Lapin Agile"? Now THAT would be worth waiting for ....

Welcome, serena! It is very good to have another admirer of EJW aboard! :)

And, yes, we have heard the rumor about Elwood as Einstein: we had a little discussion of this some time ago. Sadly, I recently checked IMDB (which, however, is not infallible) which reported that Tobey Maguire was in discussions for the role of Einstein. :( I think Elwood would be brilliant as the bushy-haired genius! Well, at least, back when he had bushy hair! :p

peaceweaver, I must have been checking IMDb while you were posting :) -- They now have "Picasso at the Lapin Agile" as scheduled for release in 2003 and already in post-production. I don't know enough about the play to know if this makes sense :confused: , but the cast is listed as:

Kevin Kline -- Sagot
Steve Martin -- The Visitor
Ryan Phillippe -- Pablo Picasso

And that's listed as the full cast. Is "The Visitor" the Einstein role? If so, they must have either made him a bit older than his early twenties or gotten a great makeup artist :p !

Welcome, serena!

I'm going to "neener neener" at you about North, because look what EW has to say! (more from the BoE transcript):


Questioner: Elijah, these two films are two of my most films favourite ever - but which of these is your favourite, North or The Adventures of Huck Finn?

[Audience vies for theirs but ..]

Elijah: I’d say North. I think the story’s brilliant. I don’t know if it’s the best movie but I love the idea.

Questioner: Was it Bruce Willis and the bunny outfit?

Elijah: Yeah! I have to say. I have to say, I love that movie. it’s a great story, very sweet.

******

Questioner: I want to ask Elijah a question - when I first saw Fellowship of The Ring , I hadn’t seen any of your other movies, and I actually thought you were English.

Elijah: [gasps] - I convinced you? wow!

Questioner: What I have noticed is that your voice, as Frodo, is a lot lower than your normal one. Is that deliberate or did that just come with the training …

Elijah: Umm.. It’s actually deliberate - it’s quite deliberate. Umm… we would go back and re-record a lot of the dialogue in ADR because we shot the movie with Guide Track - so we knew that we’d have to go back and re-record everything. So, in that process umm - we actually, you know - we intentionally, made the voice a little bit lower. Just a little bit more of a wiser resonance - it’s important.

******

Questioner: if there was one Hollywood director, or I guess worldwide director, who you could work with - who would it be and why?

Elijah: …Mr Astin?

Sean: I’ve been rattling off a list lately. You know the sort of Martin Scorsese, Francis Ford Coppola, David Lynch, Woody Allen you know … basically any filmmaker who’s got a real vision or an aesthetic. The idea of giving yourself over to them for a little while, and experiencing their kind of take on the universe, or way of telling a story or something like that is pretty …it’s pretty fun when there’s somebody with real vision - so any filmmaker really.

Elijah: I’d probably say David Lynch actually. Specifically after Mulholland Drive .. Brilliant.

Question: We all know you’d like to do a play with Billy and Dom and all that and since Goonies and North you’ve had this amazing career but where do you both see yourselves in five.. Ten years time?

Sean: I …umm… homeless!

Audience: WE’LL TAKE YOU IN!

Elijah: There’s a lot of things I’d like to do. In five years time, I’d like to have directed my first movie..hopefully. I have set up a production company so that I can help facilitate other movies ..I dunno. Umm..a record label? I love music, so I’d love to facilitate music as well. So those kind of things. I kind of want to accomplish other things beyond simply acting… and you know, with acting as well ..that would be brilliant..if I could do all those things..

Sean: Oh you will!

Audience AWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW!

******



Just thought I'd add a comment by the transcriber, juliawiseuk:


My favourite part of this one was Elijah really quietly - you can hardly hear him - trailing off with his "if I could do those things" and Sean's ultra confident support "Oh you will!"

cue one of our biggest AWWWWWWWWWWWWs of the evening.



This next bit has ROTK Spoilers!
*
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*
*
*



Question: What was the most demanding scene to film?

Elijah: Well…Sean…I think we probably had the same demanding scene if I’m not mistaken?

Sean: I don’t want to speak for you, but …

Audience Member: Well warn us if it’s about Return of The King - because I haven’t read it!

Elijah: What’s that?

Sean: no spoilers. No spoilers.

Elijah: It’s about Return of the King..there’s this scene where…

Audience member: Noooo!!!! Stop!

Elijah: No - but I wont, I wont like …it’s not going to tell you anything!

Audience member: It’d better not!

Elijah: It’s a moment on the side of the mountain where Frodo collapses and Sam holds Frodo in his arms. It’s a really emotional scene for both Sam, as he is sort of seeing his friend, essentially die in his arms, and for Frodo in the sense that he can’t remember the things that Sam is trying to make him remember about home and The Shire and it was a really difficult scene and the day that we both felt like we’d actually done everything that there was to do with our role, I think. We felt we’d gone to the peak as actors on the film.

Sean: We were filming on an actual volcano, on Mount Ruapehu - it felt like kind of a sacred …I mean I’ve talked about it a lot already .. So I don’t know how many..

Elijah: I have as well, so..

Sean: Yeah, so it was a pretty sacred experience, pretty emotional

Elijah: And to have gone through that with you and for both of us to have gone through these same things together was pretty significant.




*
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*
*
*
*
End spoilers


Questioner: is there any book that you’ve read, that you would like to turn into a movie?

Elijah: Yeah - there’s a book by Douglas Copeland called Girlfriend in a Coma…. That I REALLY want to make into a film. I wouldn’t want to act in it necessarily, I just think it’s an incredible story. It would be logistically interesting.. in terms of the apocolypse at the end! - But I would love to turn that into a film…and I’ve actually spoken to Douglas about it himself and he was like “yeah.. I’m not really interested in that!” …so we’ll see what happens. I’d like to do that.

Gilly [who has been conversing with Elwood all night *L*] What’s is about?

Elijah: what’s it about? Oh…it’s too much to go into, it’s essentially an apocolyptic version of …..It’s A Wonderful Life.It’s kind of about …..I mean, that’s over-simplifying it…it’s about a woman, in her teens, falls into a coma and her boyfriend, and her friends - like her circle of friends, grow up and have their lives and then she comes out of her coma … and she’s in her 30s - she’s had a child whilst in a coma, comes out and it’s this whole sort of, everybody kinda coming back together , reassessing their lives - what they’ve done, the mistakes they’ve made, what they could have done with their lives - it’s pretty amazing.

Sean: Like The Wizard of Oz meets The Big Chill!

Elijah: there you go!

Sean: “ …And YOU were there…and YOU were there…”

Sean: I’m trying to pick people whose arms seem the most tired!

Question: My question is for Elijah, what was it like working with Barry Levinson?

Elijah: Wonderful. I was 8 years old! But it was wonderful - he was very kind. It’s weird because I have this strange. You know ..it was so long ago and I was a different human being then - you know - I don’t have a connection to that any more. But it was … in my memory it feels like I was as I am now, working with any other director - and he was wonderful. He was very kind very gentle with us in terms of his direction.



That's all of the "acting" stuff from the Saturday session: haven't tracked down an actual transcript of the Sunday one, alas.

Sheryl

Welcome, Serena! Nice to see you delurking. Please, stay that way! :)


Sheryl, thank you so much for those transcript bits! :)

People with sensitive ears, please shy away now, because I absolutely need to say:

SQUEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

and

AAAAUUUUGGGHHHH!

If I'd been there, I'd probably have had to be restrained so as to not clamp a hand firmly over the mouth of that audience member so vocally afraid of spoilers. Can you believe it! Here they are, Sean Astin and Elijah Wood, actually about to spill a little from RotK, and this.... this.....person tells them to *shut up*.......!!! :eek: Why not just clap your hands over your ears, my dear, and let the rest of us listen and read with glee?

But, be that as it may, my squeeing was obviously because

Spoiler to end of post
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What they're describing is the Wheel of fire speech! And it sounds every bit as emotional as my Frodo&Sam loving heart could ever hope for and more!

Sigh. I'm gonna have to fight to keep the anticipation levels down. I really am.


Edit: I forgot to say: ainon, you mean you haven't come across that pic of Orlando Bloom as Paris and Eric Bana as Hector, inspecting their troops in "Troy"? Very nice costumes and all. :D I've always liked historical costume dramas if they have the right mix of action and emotion. Let's hope this is one. They've certainly got a cast to catch an audience's attention, at least. Hmmm.... Now, who's playing Helena, Cassandra and Andromache? I'm off to find out.

Edit: Maeg obviously beat me to the following RotK comment--by about an hour :rolleyes: . I'm at work and sometimes have to type a sentence, leave for awhile, come back... so this was sitting here for quite some time.


Originally posted by shilohmm
This next bit has ROTK Spoilers!
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Elijah: ...and for Frodo in the sense that he can’t remember the things that Sam is trying to make him remember about home and The Shire...


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Dare I say... hope... anticipate... "Wheel of fire"? "Naked in the dark"?


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End spoilers







Continued thanks for the interview, Sheryl. There really were some good questions! Glad to hear that Elwood's keeping an eye open for material he'd be interested in; even if he doesn't want to act in the one he mentioned (and the author evidently wasn't interested), it's good to know he's thinking about it. And if he gets his own production company going (within five years :cool: ), he might be open to suggestions. We could all "do lunch" ;) :p !

spoilers...














Elijah: It’s a moment on the side of the mountain where Frodo collapses and Sam holds Frodo in his arms. It’s a really emotional scene for both Sam, as he is sort of seeing his friend, essentially die in his arms, and for Frodo in the sense that he can’t remember the things that Sam is trying to make him remember about home and The Shire and it was a really difficult scene and the day that we both felt like we’d actually done everything that there was to do with our role, I think. We felt we’d gone to the peak as actors on the film.
dies of anticipation

then considers thwapping anyone who says there isn't much for Elijah and Sean to do in the movie apart from Shelob and Mt Doom

















Mel

Serena- I DO like how you think and speak. So very, very erudite, yourself! Causes one to wonder......??? *cough* .....nevermind.


I totally go along with your ideas on positive thinking and have been trying to get these ladies..and a few gents... to try what you suggested.....

"The way to make something happen is to behave as if it's a fait accompli. So if we want Elijah to (a) be nominated as best actor and (b) win that Oscar, the thing to do is to take it for granted that those things will happen. Never, ever, allow yourself to think the contrary. And don't stop thinking it from now until Oscar night. Keep imagining him walking up those steps and taking the trophy and making that acceptance speech. They say the universe gets as many order cancellations as it gets orders, because people too often start thinking about something else instead of concentrating on their real goal. OK, I'm as bad at that as the next person, but I'm sure as hell gonna try this time.

I also believe that this is the year ROTK and PJ will get their Oscars and every other award there is.

We KNOW who deserves Best Actor this year, Elijah Wood.... It would only be the right thing in that he has been the emotional glue of the entire trilogy.

I still think Sir Ian got jipped out of his two years ago!
A travesty , that! And high time Hollywood makes amends by at least giving Elijah his just reward for accomplishing a role that might have daunted actors twice his age.

Serena--Don't be a stranger...Wonderful, wonderful comments and insights on our lovely, albeit, 'arcane' subject.

And thanks for saying we are erudite! We thought, in all modesty, that we were but it's nice to have that confirmed!

Oh..and speaking of Faculty members writing scripts for EW.... well at least ONE of us has.:D

________________________________________________
originally posted by peaceweaver:

Sadly, I recently checked IMDB (which, however, is not infallible) which reported that Tobey Maguire was in discussions for the role of Einstein. I think Elwood would be brilliant as the bushy-haired genius! Well, at least, back when he had bushy hair!
________________________________________________

.... but, guys, look what I've just found at movies.themovieinsider.com:

"Picasso at the Lapin Agile (2004)
Steve Martin, Kevin Kline, Ryan Phillippe, Elijah Wood, Jason Biggs, and Hayden Christensen.
Fred Schepisi
Comedy
TBA, 2004
Based on the extremely successful play by actor/comic Steve Martin, Picasso at the Lapin Agile is a comedy set on a magical night in Paris, 1904, when by chance, two twenty-four year old geniuses, Pablo Picasso and Albert Einstein, meet in a bar and lock wits about art, girls and the future. When a pop icon from the future joins them, the space/time continuum erupts in a wild night that changes the future forever."

Dunno how recent or accurate this is (the site was apparently last updated this past Sunday), but I do so hope it's both !!!! Funny thing about that play: I played the Einstein role very briefly (one scene only, cross-dressing again) at a theatre summer school last year and loved the play, but knew next to nothing about it, so looked it up in Google only to find that YOU KNOW WHO was considering the film role. Had to pick myself up off the floor.
Hi tg! No, happily The Visitor is not the Einstein role (I'll give you a run-down of The V.when I've checked the book again). Einstein is the No 2 role in the play (next to Picasso). It would suit Elwood perfectly and be a GREAT acting challenge.

Hobmom, thanks for all your kind words. I've been an admirer of (inter alia) your devotion to our beloved Elwood for some time! Quote: "Causes one to wonder......??? *cough* .....nevermind. Um, can't imagine what you mean, but I deny it anyway!
Quote: "Oh..and speaking of Faculty members writing scripts for EW.... well at least ONE of us has TELL US, TELL US, PLEEEEEASE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

________________________________________________
originally posted by shilohmm:

I'm going to "neener neener" at you about North

_______________________________________________

Hi shilohmm! I feel suitably neenered. But to be fair, EW does say "I don’t know if it’s the best movie but I love the idea". Yes, the idea was great and it could have been a great story if the film characters (most of the parents plus the preteen media magnate, that is) had been made a little less totally implausible and ludicrously, even insultingly, stereotyped. OK, they were intended as caricatures, but North himself was not: he stood out as the only real human being in the entire film (with the possible exception of the last family he rejects - but even they were stereotypically "nice"). He was like a real boy alone in a forest of cartoon monsters. And yes, it's because of the unreality of the whole universe in that film that it had to be turned into a dream at the end. Fantasy can be wonderful (as we know!), but RR could have taken PJ's line and made it a REAL fantasy world and hence more believable. I remember reading that EW loved making the movie because of all the different actors and sets he worked with - I can imagine that was a blast. But I do regret that the rest of the film didn't do him justice and therefore bombed (it was universally slated, not just by Roger Ebert). Tg's take on the book eagerly awaited!
Oh - and what about the great froshadowing in North?? Have you discussed that before, and have I missed it?? The Ring! i.e. the coin with the hole shot in it that North is given, carries with him everywhere, holds in the palm of his open hand at one point, and nearly loses except that it finds its way back to its rightful owner .... I'll forgive RR everything for that.

Originally posted by Maeglian
If I'd been there, I'd probably have had to be restrained so as to not clamp a hand firmly over the mouth of that audience member so vocally afraid of spoilers. Can you believe it! Here they are, Sean Astin and Elijah Wood, actually about to spill a little from RotK, and this.... this.....person tells them to *shut up*.......!!! :eek: Why not just clap your hands over your ears, my dear, and let the rest of us listen and read with glee?

My angst-ridden heart is right with ya, Maeg. But my head is insisting that I persevere in the face of all spoiler temptations. :p I'm doing a good job of restraining myself from clicking on any spoiler links now. Spoilers in the Faculty are fair game though.

Oh yes. Me happily angsted out by Sheryl's news. :D

I forgot to say: ainon, you mean you haven't come across that pic of Orlando Bloom as Paris and Eric Bana as Hector, inspecting their troops in "Troy"? Very nice costumes and all. :D I've always liked historical costume dramas if they have the right mix of action and emotion. Let's hope this is one. They've certainly got a cast to catch an audience's attention, at least.

Orlando and Eric are fine gentlemen, but I never pay attention to 'em, really. I knew I'd probably go see 'Troy' when it comes out, but I never bothered with it. Someone really should have written me a memo much earlier about Sean Bean being in it. ;)

Btw, 'Eternal Sunshine' news. Maybe. This item was posted at a movie message board - no way to verify whether it's true or not, but we do know from AICN that test screenings have been taking place.


Well I know why they are pushing the film ('Eternal Sunshine ... ) back. The editor is an Icelandic woman Valdís Óskarsdóttir. There was an interview with her on an Icelandic movie website. She was really angry. Early this summer there was a test screening in New Jersey. 50% of the audience really liked the film but the other 50% didn´t understand the picture. And all agreed that Jim Carrey wan´t funny in the film. Well Valdís says he is not supposed to be funny and the film isn´t comedy but the studio execs panicked and demanded a new cut. Since then there have been other test screenings and she is not happy with the new cut. In her opinion the old cut was by far the superior and the last
few months have been a disaster caused by the studio.




Hobmom:
Oh..and speaking of Faculty members writing scripts for EW.... well at least ONE of us has. :D

I remember you saying something about that, Hobmom. :k How's it going? :)


was just about to post this when I see serena's dropped by with excellent news! Oh, I so hope that's accurate info! And yes, please, do tell us all about Einstein! :cool:

Serena-
Hobmom, thanks for all your kind words. I've been an admirer of (inter alia) your devotion to our beloved Elwood for some time!

Blush! Golly! I'm a famous...er...or infamous fan! :rolleyes: :D

S again-
Quote: "Causes one to wonder......??? *cough* .....nevermind. Um, can't imagine what you mean, but I deny it anyway!

If you're not you are an incredible facsimile, my dear! But then that's what great actors do, isn't it? Your grammar is so veddy,veddy perfect and...well..shall I say?..Shakespearean?


Script? Me? Yes indeed! 90% finished. Is someone actually interested?


But it might divert Elijah from playing Einstien and I DO want him to do that! He must!

On a side note of some medical concern about Elwood please check in Hugs for "Dr." Goldies concern about Elijah's scar that isn't healing properly. Someone should convince him to have his doctor check it out. Could be a bit nasty.:(

Hi again

You all are so much fun to read....And Serena, it is a pleasure to have your thoughts now flowing freely and in public.

I love reading all of the discourse regarding each little aspect of Elwoods acting career--though I blush to say that I haven't yet seen so many of his old movies, so I'm more suited as a spectator who can cheer you all on and learn from your research...but all of this talk about future Elijah roles has me thinking, so again I might lapse into some philosophical gobbledy-gook. Gobbledy-gook I might be good at. Sometimes.

I'm kinda with those of you who don't worry about the amount of work Elijah has been up to these days. At first I wasn't. At first I worried that Elijah wasn't going to get all the offers he deserved...and I wanted to see him working as a recognition of just how great he is. But I stepped back a little and re-thought about the whole movie business and how it isn't always very nice...and the actors I really admire seem to be the ones who don't feel they have to fully immerse themselves into the stream of it, so much as they want to have a rounded life and pursue all of their passions.

Ainon, hasn't Ed Norton recently said he might want to give up acting for awhile so that in his life he can feel that he did something other than just act?? Hasn't Johnny Depp for many years (until now) basically done more outsider movies?? Isn't that a little of what Daniel Day Lewis does?? I read Viggo even say that if it means he is going to be too busy to spend time with his son, and hasn't time to paint etc, he might give up acting. One of the things I admire about Elijah so much is his outlook on life. I'm so drawn to artists who incorporate living as an art. Paraphrasing here--but he has said that life experiences are more important than career. Right on. Now, that said, he and all those above, are lucky that they have already proved themselves (and he has at such a young age) so that they might miss out on getting the highest profile jobs if they don't decide to push for them, but maybe they have the luxury to choose to become involved in what they like and what they admire and think that that is enough and that that is better than working all of the time to have a full resume. I like that Elijah talked about pursuing other interests. I like that he thinks about small movies. Part of this is personal to me. I have acting friends who say it can be such an ugly business. Hollywood can be very hard (even writers over 40 are left in the cold). It's awful to think of having to lose your humaness to get the breaks. Also, as I've mentioned before, I have a daughter who has had to think a little of some of these questions about what kind of life do you sacrifice for getting a role. In an series of breaks, she got a lead role in a film I hope to tell you about later. It's premature, but she has already been asked hypothetical questions about future work...and knowing a little what we know about the good things, and some of what we know about the bad things in the profession...I am very glad that there are actors out there who think bigger things about life than about being in the public eye. It is a great example--and quite frankly I think in some wierd way having known about Elijah and the other avenue of independent productions, was what inspired my daughter to try out for the role she landed. I don't know if she would say that, but I think there was a connection.

So anyhow, I want to see more of Elijah. And I want everyone to WANT him in their movies. But backing away, I am glad that he is not like everybody else.

And having said all that--I DO love to speculate on his future roles. And I WANT him to win an Oscar. ANd I want everyone to be fighting over him...but on the back burner I know the thing I like best is that he seems to be a great person as well as a great talent. I like the boy....


And now I know I have to get North out of the libary so I have something more concrete to contribute. I am renting All I Want over the weekend, so I can really be one of the club.

Alyon

Welcome, honey elf! Beautiful essay.


For anyone who can stand any more Try 17 comments (spoilers):





I finally had a chance to watch Try 17 (AKA all i want AKA that marketed-as-a-teen-sex-movie-but-it-really-isn’t movie) for the second time all the way through (well, it’s not like I want my 5 and 8 year-olds to start talking like that!) and I realized that I really like this movie!

After reading some comments here about Jane’s car being a symbol for her, I did pick up on that in several places the first time, including (something like) “you fixed her up, you put her back together” (sob!) and also in that scene of the car being stripped and battered. But only on my second viewing did I pick up on that symbolism in Steve’s comment (I'm paraphrasing) that he couldn’t believe that piece of ‘junk’ made it all the way. Jane’s immediate facial reaction is one of a resigned battered wife and Jones’ reaction is an angry attack. I don’t think Steve physically abused her but his shocking lack of respect for her (that was illustrated in his hospital conversation with Jones) makes me think she is being emotionally abused by Steve as Jones watches her car being demolished.

“I used to be better than ok.” (sob!)

I love Jones’ confidence (especially in “this is the part where you ask me who Steve is”, “no it’s not”) and honesty throughout. He grows but the writers keep his personality intact throughout.
In fact, nearly all the real-life characters were believable. Steve, Jones, Jane, Brad, even actress “I think she likes to be watched” Lisa. No one is all good or all bad.

I definitely see why it debuted at an indie festival. It would’ve been so great to see it there, without any prejudice.
The trailer on the DVD was SO AWFUL. A writer writes well, a director directs well, the actors act well… and then marketing does their market research and then do their best to bury the true life of the movie. :(

(It sounds like that might be happening in the tests and re-cuts of Eternal Sunshine) :(



End of Try 17 stuff



Elijah-“I’d love to do more comedies you know - especially comedies like that - that are so sort of strange and weird and brilliantly written”
yes, yes, yes!

(OKAY, I CAN'T REMEMBER HOW TO PUT A PICTURE IN HERE (:o) BUT THE FOLLOWING CAPTION REFERS TO THE FIRST PICTURE AINON POSTED)
This looks like the munchin leader in Wizard of Oz.


I really like the Dorian Grey idea!

((whiteling))

ROTK spoiler (kind of)

OK, it’s time for another one of my Tolkien-newcomer questions. I’ve been wondering for a while, which of the three “wheel of fire” mentions is the actual Wheel of Fire speech?

End spoiler

North--if I can find a really cheap DVD, I’ll buy it, skip the Texas, Eskimo and France parts (and most of the beginning and end), laugh un-guiltily at the island and Amish parts and seriously cherish all the Elijah and Willis parts. I thought they had wonderful chemistry together and, if you can overlook that his first scene is in a pink bunny suit, Willis was great.

Elijah as a brilliant eccentric in a quirky comedy with time-space-continuum issues?! :)
(it reminds me of Between Heaven and Hell (by Kroft???) that was an imagined trialogue of CS Lewis, JF Kennedy and Aldous Huxley in heaven---they all died on November 22, 1963)
I can’t wait!

Re EW's career, I look for quality, not quantity but have been impressed with both.

I finished Return of the King last week.

ROTK spoilers to end of post







The Grey Havens line that got me the most was in Frodo's goodbye speech to Sam that he would be "the most famous gardener in history". Somehow that line encapsulates Sam's life, both during and after the quest. Someone smarter than me could write a beautiful essay about the themes of being agrarian and nurturing versus industrial and military and of the different ways one can impact history.
In this analogy, Frodo could be seen as the "grain of wheat that falls" to produce (John 12:24).

Ack!!! Exposed to unmarked ROTK spoilers! NOOOOO!!!!!! OKay, sorry, but that was enexpected. Any way, I was really writing to say OMG ELIJAH MIGHT BE DOING PICASSO AT THE LAPIN AGILE THAT'S THE PLAY WE'RE DOING AND I'MPLAYING SUZANNE THAT IS SO UNBELIEVABLLY ABSOLUTELY FREAKY AND WOULD BE SO FREAKIN' AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Did I mention I think it's freaky?

OK, calming down. Breathe, that's the key, breathe....

I found this amazing but sadly only thumbnail size collection of brand new Lij publicity stills today.

They belong here because somehow they remind me of our Gregory Peck discussion some months back. I really see some kind of resemblance. More in character than in actual looks. And Elijah looks so much more mature in these pics.

I'd love to see him in a Gregory Peck type role.

http://www.angelfire.com/celeb2/elijahw/LijCollection.jpg

First of All:

Elijah as Young Einstein? :confused:

Pablo Picasso fits him better. ;)

Second of All:

Tobey Maguire looks more like Aleister Crowley. (There is a picture of him as a Young man, and he looks akin to Pablo Picasso. Not the bright eyes and paranoid look that Everyone is familiar with. :eek: Aleister Crowley I mean, NOT Tobey Maguire).

Hullo!

Hobmom, those pictures are wonderful! He looks thinner though, don't you think? One of my favorite things about the way he looks in FoTR is that delicious little layer of puppy fat rounding out his lovely features. But he's so beautiful! OK, 'nough swooning.

Thanks for the welcome Kuduk. Glad you enjoyed my essay and my Dorian Grey idea!

I liked "All I Want" more than I thought I would. I watched it two days in a row! (I think I may actually need to buy a copy at some point.) One thing I really enjoyed about it was how much of the "narrative" if you will, was played out on his face. He is really so expressive!

Someone (sorry, I don't remember who) said they couldn't buy him as the geeky innocent kid at the beginning of the movie. I didn't have a problem with it at all. Not sure why. May have to rent it again and analyze it. For purely intellectual purposes of course!


OK, RoTK spoilers below!

Kuduk, I love the blessing that Frodo gives Sam at Grey havens. "...all I have or may have had...too much to be and to do and to enjoy." :( Sob! I so hope that speach is in the movie, and I think it might be, because I read an interview once where EJW quoted it. Yes, I've seen many referrences to a Christ-figure aspect of Frodo through out the book. One of my favorites is in the mines of Moria, where Frodo is thinking about how he wishes the Ring had never come to him, and how he wishes he were back in the shire "pottering amoung the flowers, or mowing the grass." He then goes on to reflect on the mithril shirt, and how much Bilbo must have loved him to given him a gift of such value. That bit always reminds me of Romans 8, don't know which verse off the top of my head, but the one about being fellow heirs. And Sam was certainly Frodo's heir.

Let Your Love Shine---I'm so sorry, I forgot!! But, believe me, that's not the whole story!
Thanks Bridget for editing!

Hobmom-the black and white photo really does remind me of Gregory Peck in To Kill a Mockingbird. I had a weird "look how young he was" moment.
Re: thinness, Hobmom, you're an expert, has he always been that thin or do you think he lost weight for ROTK? He looks SO frail in the "Pieta" to me. It always reminds me of Huck Finn.
Any idea when these were taken? Before the FauxHawk for sure.


A few last Try 17 comments (major spoiler):


While watching Try 17, I had just tried to explain some of the luggage and car symbolism to my hubby (who is being very tolerant and supportive of my EW interest). Then the last scene with Jones and Jane played and hubby said "is the motorbike a symbol for Lisa?" I thought he was just teasing me, but heard Jones jokingly say "she just quit on me". I told hubby, "I don't know if you were kidding or not, but I think you're on to something". He said he wasn't kidding.

They shed many things (car, bike, luggage) and people (Lisa, Steve, fantasy girls) to get to that point.

I originally said (about the beginning) "maybe he doesn't do naive 17 year-olds that well" but the first "15 minutes" I originally disliked have become more like 1-2 min.

Originally posted by kuduk



Try Seventeen spoilers




...I don’t think Steve physically abused her but his shocking lack of respect for her (that was illustrated in his hospital conversation with Jones) makes me think she is being emotionally abused by Steve as Jones watches her car being demolished.
Wow! I know I'll be thinking of that now every time I see Jones sitting there watching the car being stripped without being able to stop it from happening!

BTW, to the symbolism theorists out there :) , I've been assuming Jones's motorcycle is the one Brad's lover left behind. If that's true, any added meaning there--maybe Brad letting go of the past? I'd have to watch the movie again, though, to see if the "try seventeen" conversation where Brad mentions the motorcycle comes before or after Jones telling his mother that he's gotten one. Maybe it's not the same one at all. Later:Wonders of the DVD format strike again--I just checked the scene listing (this old fogey keeps forgetting about things like that :rolleyes: ) and even though there are a few scene titles that could be the Brad/Jones conversation, all of those possibilities are before "a surprise visit" from Mom. So Brad definitely tells Jones about it before Jones tells his mother, "I got a motorcycle." So, symbolism gurus, same motorcycle? any meaning?


End of Try 17 stuff





(It sounds like that might be happening in the tests and re-cuts of Eternal Sunshine) :(
Definitely :( , if that's what's happening. If that report's true, I really hope the "He's not supposed to be funny in this" people win. The description of ESOTSM has always been that it's more like The Truman Show than Dumb and Dumber (or whatever other inane Jim Carrey comedy you'd care to insert there). With such a fantastic screenwriter on the project, my fear is that the marketing folks will chop up what was--and could have remained--a work of art :mad: .







ROTK spoiler (kind of)

OK, it’s time for another one of my Tolkien-newcomer questions. I’ve been wondering for a while, which of the three “wheel of fire” mentions is the actual Wheel of Fire speech?
Well, the one I'm thinking of, anyway, is in "Mount Doom" (the chapter) when Sam is throwing away his cooking gear.






End spoiler






North--if I can find a really cheap DVD, I’ll buy it
kuduk dear--if you find North on any kind of DVD, let me know and I'll pay a good price for it!! Or Paradise, or Child in the Night, or Radio Flyer (especially Radio Flyer!!), or The Good Son in region 1 coding (did I forget any?). VCDs also gratefully accepted. [Or, it goes without saying, Day-O in any format whatsoever :( .] ainon graciously sent a (legit ;) ) VCD of Oliver Twist, which I've already posted some screencaps from, and I bought a VCD of Flipper at yesasia.com which I haven't had a chance to make any screencaps from yet, so those two DVD-deprived movies are "covered," although the screencaps have to be kept smaller than those from a DVD or they start losing quality.

BTW, in case it affects anyone's "request-making," I did some used DVD shopping at amazon and, as soon as B&W arrives, I'll have screencappable versions of every EJW movie with the following exceptions: 1. those listed in the previous paragraph which don't seem to have such a version available, 2. TAMWSNBN since I absolutely refuse to buy a DVD of it (I have the VHS) and you can't really see Elwood in it, anyway, so screencaps would be pretty pointless, and 3. Back to the Future II which evidently was such a non-hit that the only way you can get it on DVD is to buy the set of the entire trilogy (maybe someone will ask what I want for Christmas :p ).

Obsessed? Me?!! Well, as long as I've dropped the "compulsive," I don't mind :) :) . [And, yes, I did get B&W used, so I didn't "support" anyone in the buying of it ;) and didn't have to pay too much for it. It was actually the last available EJW movie that I didn't have in any format, since I never bought the VHS.]

------------

And, kuduk, lovely reflections on the Grey Havens. I believe Hobmom's thread on Frodo is still hanging around in the Green Dragon, just waiting for some new input to get the discussion going again (hint, hint ;) ).

Ladies, where does one find "Chain of Fools?" I've tried my local vid place, half.com, and ebay to no avail. Can you help?

Honey!

I'm kind of in "absorb information" mode lately, just don't have much to say...

Hobmom,
I'm with kuduk; the black and white really does remind me of Peck.

shadowcat,
I'm having trouble seeing *anyone* young as Picasso - all the Picasso pics I can remember, he's very old! Crowley... now *there* would be a movie subject. *shiver*


Try 17 spoilers
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tgshaw,
I thought sure the motorcycle EW was riding was Brad's old lover's first time through. (only time through, so far. :p ) I think it added resonance, in part because of the relationship Jones had developed with *Brad* - the trust Brad gave him meant something to me, and I'd think it would mean something to Jones. Brad was treating him like family.


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End spoilers

honeyelf,

Chain of Fools hasn't been released in the US.

I don't know if *anyone* has succeeded in doing this yet, but theoretically you can download Chain of Fools from my hubby's computer at:

http://www.winmx.com/

Hubby's user name is:

youarenumber6

He's set it up so if someone is downloading CoF they go to the head of the line (but now that I've posted this publically, that line may get long!).

Bridget,
I hope that link is okay - it takes you to the sign-up system, although I suppose after you download the whole shebang some of the movies might be outragous. If you kill it then people can PM me.

Sheryl

honeyelf, you can also buy a VCD (should be playable on just about anything that plays DVDs) of Chain of Fools at yesasia.com. It has Chinese subtitles, but they really aren't distracting. Hint: Search for it by title, because they only reference the first couple of cast members in their search engine and Elijah is third or fourth.

yesasia.com is also where I was able to buy both Flipper and The Witness on VCD. They've sent me customer surveys after I've bought things there and I'm very honest with them about my reasons for going there ;) :) -- just trying to do my bit to see that they carry any Elijah Wood movie they can find!

BTW, if there's anyone here who's not familiar with VCDs, the best thing about them is that they're "universal"--no coding regions like DVDs and VHSs.

Sheryl--Thanks for the comment on the motorcycle. That's the way I felt about it, too, after I made the connection (I just needed a few more viewings to make the connection than you did ;) ).

Originally posted by tgshaw
Back to the Future II which evidently was such a non-hit that the only way you can get it on DVD is to buy the set of the entire trilogy (maybe someone will ask what I want for Christmas :p ).

Oh, tg, you don't want "Back to the Future" on DVD! At least, not yet. Because see, here's the deal with that. It says it's widescreen version, but it really isn't - it's fullscreen with the top and bottom chopped off, so it looks like widescreen.:rolleyes: :rolleyes: I don't know who was responsible for *that* dumb idea, but I would wait until they put out the real widescreen versions. (Or maybe until you can get the second one on its own, without buying all three.;) )

I did watch "Flipper" last week. If you ignore the glaring scientific inaccuracies (hammerheads swim in schools, and they do *not* attack humans on a whim) and Paul Hogan, it really isn't that bad.;)

Another nice thing about VCDs is they can be copied in an ordinary CD burner.

But you didn't hear it from me. ;)

Originally posted by Bridget Chubb
...it's fullscreen with the top and bottom chopped off, so it looks like widescreen.:rolleyes: :rolleyes: I don't know who was responsible for *that* dumb idea...
LMAO (or as close as I can get to that with my boss a few feet away :eek: )!! If you go back and read my experience with buying the DVD of TTT, you'll find out the idea came from one of the guys who waited on me at Walgreen's! :D :D ;)

So, do you think they'll let us know when/if they do come out with the real thing? Or is there some way to tell from the package, etc.? And, of course, the most important question: do you know if the chopping affects any tiny piece of Video Game Boy 1 in any frame? :p

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Edit: Yes, Goldie, I have a couple of crebain that were hatched in that kind of an incubator.

I've been seeing ads for software that's supposed to let you transfer VHS onto a VCD or DVD, but I'm afraid it might involve adding some hardware, too, which may be more than I can afford right now. I'll have to ask someone I trust (not the people who are sending me spam about it :rolleyes: ). I try not to use pirated stuff--figure the people who did the work deserve to get their share. If I have a crebain of a film, I always buy a legitimate copy as soon as it becomes available. But if it's just plain not available, it's hard to feel as if I'm taking money from anyone. If I had a way to transfer the DVD-deprived movies from VHS to VCD/DVD, I'm sure I'd do it without feeling much guilt--especially since I did legitimately buy the VHS versions.

Elijah's thinness- My guess is those pics were taken last month soon after he was up and about after his operation. He was probably not eating too much with his tummy so upset. Burst appendixes can make a person very ill and he probably either couldn't or wasn't allowed to eat his usual food for several weeks. Besides he would have been primarily on IV fluids for about two weeks and antibiotics to zap the infection that got out when the appendix burst.

The pics from last week's Collectormania show a pleasant return of his slightly, always quite slight, plumper self.

Here he is showing one of his scars. The one that concerns us worriers. But notice the return of just a bit of hobbity roundness.

http://www.angelfire.com/celeb2/elijahw/lijscar10Lg.jpg

Good evening, all!
Thanks for the hugs, dear colleagues, that felt good :k !

Originally posted by Hobmom
Elijah's thinness- My guess is those pics were taken last month soon after he was up and about after his operation.

Hobmom, I would say you are right. He looks incredibly transluctent in these new pictures... and emaciated. And really - the resemblance to Peck is stunning. Of course, the thinness made me also think of Anthony Perkins! Look!


http://www.photobucket.com/albums/0903/whiteling/Peck.jpg http://www.photobucket.com/albums/0903/whiteling/elwood_peck.jpg

http://www.photobucket.com/albums/0903/whiteling/Perkins_sw.jpg http://www.photobucket.com/albums/0903/whiteling/elwood_perkins.jpg


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Serena - servus! Well, what do you know - a (southern?) neighbour! Welcome to the Faculty's CET (Central European Team) ;) !

originally posted Alyon
I have acting friends who say it can be such an ugly business. Hollywood can be very hard (even writers over 40 are left in the cold). It's awful to think of having to lose your humaness to get the breaks.

Your posts make me think, Alyon, even though I'm really not in the mood for that right now. ;)

I hadn't heard specifically that writers over 40 got grief in Hollywood, although I have heard lots of horror stories about how writers are treated there. I've known excellent, excellent stage actors who quite consciously preferred to remain in local theatre because they felt they had to "sell their soul" to go Hollywood. I think it's possible to make it without doing that, But you have to have a very strong center, and probably family support (not financial support or even necessarily support of your career - but support in keeping your integrity, I suppose).

Some people say it's cowardice when an actor says they won't go to Hollywood, or that the actor really isn't that good. I've known some who really were "that good" - but they also knew themselves to be flawed enough that they'd fold under the pressure. I think that's wisdom. I have a musician friend who put off going to the coast to work until she was older (she's a classical musician, so age isn't as crucial), and she was glad she did. She's self-supporting as a musician (last I knew), but she's also still herself, if you follow.

It's sad that artistic talent carries all this "baggage" in terms of succeeding - that an artist's whole life becomes "public property," and that they're expected to be "on the job" at all times - you have to "do the pretty" so very, very much. Few regular jobs put that pressure on people - it's true that business executives have to do the social rounds, but it's possible to succeed while keeping that to a minimum.

I'm sure it's possible for actors to succeed without playing the games, but I think it's a lot harder to get the first few jobs without contacts. And because actresses, especially, "peak" so young, I'm sure it's terribly tempting to cut corners and compromise on things you normally wouldn't. It's a similar pressure to that on many athletes in fields where the young win (gymnastics, to a lesser extent figure skating).

Maybe acting should be regulated the way sports are. ;)

Originally posted by tgshaw

I've been seeing ads for software that's supposed to let you transfer VHS onto a VCD or DVD, but I'm afraid it might involve adding some hardware, too, which may be more than I can afford right now.

You might talk to hubby, he's been battling with some of those this past summer trying to get a good copy of Flipper. I think he's gone through three of them now. :rolleyes: It's a lot more hassle than copying DVD to DVD or VCD to VCD or whatnot, but of course you won't be dealing with kids popping your tape out of the VCR half way through...

originally posted by tgshaw
If I have a crebain of a film, I always buy a legitimate copy as soon as it becomes available. But if it's just plain not available, it's hard to feel as if I'm taking money from anyone.

Ditto, although I'm more cavalier about TV shows (since they were originally broadcast). Speaking of which, I now have an official copy of Ash Wednesday, with commentary and everything. It sits on my desk and I look at it everyday, but somehow it has yet to get into the DVD player...

originally posted by whiteling

the thinness made me also think of Anthony Perkins!


Sheesh! shadowcatshadow's got EW playing Aleister Crowley, and you suggest he follow in the footsteps of Norman Bates. I filled my nightmare quota for the month this morning, thanks. :p

Sheryl

Originally posted by shilohmm
You might talk to hubby, he's been battling with some of those this past summer trying to get a good copy of Flipper. I think he's gone through three of them now... :rolleyes:
Three software programs? Or three hardware devices? What my non-technological mind cannot comprehend is how you get a VHS tape (or even a VHS player) to connect to a computer :confused: . But I guess that's the kind of thing I need to find out.

...BTW, I know your hubby probably wants to "do it himself," but if he gets too frustrated, Flipper is only $7.99 on VCD at yesasia.com :) . Your order has to be a certain size to get free shipping and handling, but even those costs are reasonable, as they ship all their U.S. orders out of San Francisco. Of course, that doesn't help with the other DVD-less movies.

[Disclaimer: No, I don't work for yesasia.com ;) -- I actually checked out their affiliate program, but the way it's set up it wouldn't do me any good, so I just send people there gratis :) .]

I've often thought Elijah also has a certain Tony Perkins thing about him, too. And y'know I CAN see Elijah playing Norman Bates and he'd probably have a blast. Though the whole Psycho genre has been really over-done. Still seeing Elijah play a really disturbed kind of person would be very interesting.

I'd like to see him get another part he can really sink his teeth into. Comedy is fine but I'd like to see him in a major dramatic role unlike anything he's done before.

Hubby just reminded me to tell y'all that he got the Ash Wednesday DVD, with commentary, at WalMart for six bucks. Eldest complains, "Why'd you get something your kids can't even see?"

One of many questions when you consider the possibility of owning that particular movie...

WARNING:
Computer geeky stuff ahead.

Originally posted by tgshaw

Three software programs? Or three hardware devices?

He's home now, so I asked. "Two hardware and a couple software." He says you need at least one piece of hardware unless you've got a Sony camcorder. There has to be some way of changing the analog VHS to digital, and apparently that takes hardware - a USB 1.x isn't fast enough. And you need lots of memory - 256 mb minimum, but really 512 or more. And you need 40 gb free on your hard drive unless you want to be tearing your hair out.

That was from dictation, and some of it is incomprehensible to me - if it's incomprehensible to you, I'll make him actually sit down at the computer after the kids are down.

What my non-technological mind cannot comprehend is how you get a VHS tape (or even a VHS player) to connect to a computer :confused: .

Apparently, you can't - no place to plug it in without the right hardware!

...BTW, I know your hubby probably wants to "do it himself," but if he gets too frustrated, Flipper is only $7.99 on VCD at yesasia.com :) .

Mentioned that. He just sort of mumbled something... We own the Flipper tape; he's perfecting the system with that and then will go on to do other stuff. Theoretically. We'll check that and see what else they've got - don't think he's going to go for Flipper all by its lonesome.

You know, I wonder if that's where mom got some of her X-Files stuff. I should ask.

Sheryl

So he chews his nails, smokes, swears, wears a fauxhawk, it's his life, I just like his work. But does he *have* to do the wear the jeans low and show off the boxer shorts thing?

Please not a Psycho remake. Not even with Elijah. That was one (great) movie that should have been left alone.

Originally posted by Hobmom
I'd like to see him get another part he can really sink his teeth into. Comedy is fine but I'd like to see him in a major dramatic role unlike anything he's done before.

What she said!

tg, here's the official story on Back to the Future:

"The Digital Bits is reporting that the widescreen matting has been done in error on the BTTF Part II and III discs in the trilogy box set. The results very from minor to extremely irritating...

The widescreen DVD set is considered defective and Universal has an exchange program on the way where you can mail in discs II and III for replacements. But that won't roll out until late February 2003. There is no word for disc replacements for other regions besides North America, at least for now. This a fix for those who already own the widescreen DVD set. The corrected DVD batch will arrive in U.S. stores in late February according to Universal Studios."

So, I would just wait until February and buy the corrected one. No idea on how or if this affects Video Game Boy #1. You't think they'd put that kind of important information in their report...:rolleyes: :p

Originally posted by kuduk
So he chews his nails, smokes, swears, wears a fauxhawk, it's his life, I just like his work. But does he *have* to do the wear the jeans low and show off the boxer shorts thing?

Ah, but if we couldn't see his boxers, then we wouldn't be able to have those scintillating discussions in the Hugs Haven on what the pictures on 'em are!;) Does anyone here have any thoughts? Or is that topic not sophisticated enough for the Faculty?:o ;)

I'm still going with ghosts, myself.:D

Just another bit of information on Elijah's possible participation in Picasso at the Lapin Agile: this site (http://www.abandonent.com/content/films/picasso.html) appears to be for a production company associated with the movie, and they're listing Elijah in the cast. I don't know how up-to-date this page is, though.

Originally posted by kuduk
Please not a Psycho remake. Not even with Elijah.


Elijah playing Norman Bates :eek: - that is not what I meant!
There is enough "Psycho" stuff already, thank you very much. Psycho II - IV have been pretty unnecessary and Psycho V... that one ranks with "my worst experiences ever" in front of a screen! Not to speak of the redo of Hitchcock's classic in colour :rolleyes: !

I wait in suspense for Elwood as Einstein!

I was intrigued by shadowcatshadow‘s comment that the new publicity shots of Elwood resembled Picasso more than Einstein and did a little research. Take a look at what Picasso looked like as a young man. SCS is definitely on to something! Here are some links to self portraits of the young Picasso:

This is an image of Picasso in 1896:
http://www.abacus-gallery.com/cgi-bin/shop/shop.pl?fid=1039952900&cgifunction=form
1896


And this one from 1906, which is close to the time Steve Martin set his play, Picasso at the Lapin Agile.
http://www.abacus-gallery.com/cgi-bin/shop/shop.pl?fid=1039953684&cgifunction=form 1906


And this one, is, well, very pretty:

http://cgfa.sunsite.dk/picasso/p-picasso12.htm
1890’s

The news that EW may participate in this project is very good indeed! :)

Hobmom - A belated thank you for the gorgeous Elijah photos - the most beautiful I've seen. It's quite amazing how the countenance of Frodo has crept into his looks (every one of those shots seemed Frodoesque). Not surprising, considering how much he went through with Frodo. I always thought it more likely that Frodo would show through Lij than than Lij showed through Frodo.

From that site that Gladys posted (on p 175) re: Lapin Agile, if you click on the Ryan Phillippe and Kevin Kline links, it lists it as in post-production. The EW link does not list it at all. Anybody know any more?

Originally posted by kuduk
But does he *have* to do the wear the jeans low and show off the boxer shorts thing?

Yes. :)

Being from the same generation I'd be disturbed if he didn't wear his pants low....

Shilohmm---I'm with you on your thoughts about community theater, actors and artists in general....which normally would lead me into my ramblings about my thoughts on the traditional function of artists (writers, visual artists, musicians, storytellers...) in a neighborhood-based society before mass media changed the way we needed and value them --but this isn't the place ... (whew)

Originally posted by shilohmm


hadn't heard specifically that writers over 40 got grief in Hollywood, Ialthough I have heard lots of horror stories about how writers are treated there. [/B]

Heard an in depth report on this on NPR. I don't live in California so don't know many screenwriters--but a neighbor has supported his family for years as a screenwriter and confirms what the report said.

Hobmom--wonderful pictures!! And Whiteling, great comparison shots with Gregory Peck. Love GP. Love Atticus Finch

My thoughts on the boxer thing. He doesn't wear his pants that low. I mean, that little slice of boxer is really kinda.....OK, let's just say I don't mind at all .;)
When I go to pick up my daughter from high school I am amazed at how low some of the guys "sag" their jeans! :eek: I mean, they must safety-pin their pants to their boxers! YECH! Or maybe I mean "Yrch!" It really is yrchish behaviour as I see it. (Does that make me old, like really, REALLY old?)

Just saw "RadioFlyer" today. Some odd things about that movie.

First of all that whole Tom Hanks thing. He was on-screen for a total of maybe 3 minutes. Whom did he owe a favor, I wonder? And on a really shallow note, his eyes are kinda squinchy aren't they? Not like our beautiful boy at all! ;)

Then the plot and pacing. The story, very sad and brutal, is running along at a good pace, grinds to a glacial pace, then takes an abrupt left turn into incredibility. :eek: Very strange thing to do to a story that was so rooted in a bleak, brutal reality IMVHO.

On a personal note, I couldn't figure it out the first half of the movie, everything looked sort of familiar. Then I realized; I grew up in that little town Novato, California. The movie marquee is still there on Grant Avenue, but I think the theater is now an antiques collective. Those little, tacky houses were once part of a neighbouring military base.

Honey!

:confused:

Do either of the movies, "The Faculty" or "Deep Impact," contain Frodoshadowing? :confused:

Originally posted by kuduk
From that site that Gladys posted (on p 175) re: Lapin Agile, if you click on the Ryan Phillippe and Kevin Kline links, it lists it as in post-production. The EW link does not list it at all. Anybody know any more?
Those links all lead to IMDb, which is the place I saw the movie listed as in post-production and Steve Martin, Kevin Kline, and Ryan Philippe being the only cast members. Everything on that site seems to be interlinked, so the information is consistent from page to page (on the movie's page and on the actor's page) even if it's not correct :rolleyes: . As has been noted, they're not terribly reliable. I checked the pages for Elijah at E! and Entertainment Weekly and didn't see anything, but they're pretty dated (one didn't even have RotK listed yet).

If the site Gladys posted is a distributor or some other company actually connected with the movie, it's the closest we've gotten to an "official source," and I'd tend to believe it above IMDb. Has anyone who spends time at some of the larger EJW sites seen anything?

Steve Martin was on Today last week talking about his new novella, "The Pleasure of My Company," which has already been optioned for a movie. It has a lead character that also sounds like it would be a great role for Elijah. Even if that one's been cast already (I have no idea either way), if Elijah does work with Martin on the Einstein role, maybe the two of them will "discover" each other :) -- We've said before that Elijah needs to find a writer and/or director who "fits" him... could be an interesting match. (Disappointingly, there was no mention of the movie we're interested in now.)

shadowcatshadow--Oh, yes, definite Froshadowings in those two movies. Now that I have them on DVD (just got both of them within the last few days) I'll have to do some screencapping on them. The two that most quickly come to mind are Casey on the floor of the lockerroom backing away from the alien, which is very similar to Frodo on the ground backing away from the WiKi at Weathertop, and a very obvious one in Deep Impact involving two rings held in an open hand.

honeyelf--Yes, Radio Flyer is certainly a movie that lends itself to endless discussion. I very much liked it, and I think that's partly due to the fact that I had a chance to read the script of the original ending (the part with Tom Hanks); I foolishly didn't copy it when I found it on the web, and now it's gone :( . The powers-that-were had it rewritten for some reasons that could be legitimate, but IMVHO the original ending made more sense with the rest of the story (which you'd expect, since it's how the writers had planned to end it!). The ending finally used is purposely very ambiguous and can be interpreted a lot of different ways. It can still be interpreted the way the original ending laid it out, which is how I choose to take it since I know it was the writers' intention. But it can also be interpreted a number of other ways, which I'm sure is what the people making the decisions wanted.

I think another reason I like it is that IMHO it has something of an air of magical realism, which is one of my favorite kinds of fiction--a very "real world" setting with sparks of fantasy added in as if they're a normal part of the story. Using either version of the ending, one of the most important lines in understanding the story (IMVVHO) comes from Tom Hanks when he says that there are things that children know are possible that they forget when they become adults. My take on it is that the magical/fantasy parts of the story take that literally--and are meant to.

But there are lots of other ways to take it. As you can probably guess, there've been a couple of long discussions about it in this thread--if you want to throw some more ideas into the mix... go right ahead... please :) :cool: !

Well, I suppose I'm hopelessly dated.
I actually bought a pair of Gloria Vanderbilts last weekend that had a sticker on them that said
"new classic cut" meaning the waist band is at the waist. Actually, that photo just reminded me of the gansta types who wear the jeans very, very loose and very, very low with very bright boxers. The fact that I had to safety pin 3 kids pants together (so they wouldn't fall off) at the (elementary!) school clinic the other day had something to do with it too. [/boxers rant]

Originally posted by Bridget Chubb
Ah, but if we couldn't see his boxers, then we wouldn't be able to have those scintillating discussions in the Hugs Haven on what the pictures on 'em are!;)
Some people need to get a life. Now, where was I... ;)
ghosts, definitely.

Has anybody seen Mariole or deluby lately?
"deluby" always reminds me of the old Rolling Stones song: (deluby) Shattered! Shattered!

Yes, dating myself again. :o
((Faculty)) Have a nice weekend everybody. We're taking a three day weekend and going camping!

edit--well, leave it to tg to bring the discussion back to a respectable level. :)

Radio Flyer spoilers:




Please explain what you mean by the original ending. I saw the movie with the go-cart taking off and then the discussion of grown up (Tom Hanks) with his son and friend (very nicely done, I thought). What was the original ending?
Michael Medved (I believe) thought the movie was a very disturbing treatment of fantastical escape from child abuse but I thought there was a good blend of innocent childhood with the ten (magical) rules only children know, their heartbreaking reality of abuse and their childhood escape plans (magic potion and Radio Flyer).

end of Radio Flyer spoilers and start of Bumblebee spoilers:


That's one reason why the Bumblebee go-cart trip didn't work for me. They're not kids anymore. There's no previous 'magic' in the story. It's set in "science". Yes, there's an air of (EW's) personal will conquering the derailed experiement. That part I believed.

gotta go.

I don't know if the original ending of Radio Flyer was even shot. It was certainly never made part of the movie. Guess I should have been clearer that I was talking about the original ending of the script. That's what I saw online, too--the script, nothing filmed. The only scene that was rewritten was the end part with Tom Hanks and kids. Same characters, same type of setting, but the story we hear told has a very different ending.

The original was pure fantasy (in the good sense of the word ;) ), no ambiguity to it at all. So if Michael Medved said what he did about the ending that ultimately showed up in the movie, he really would have hated the first one! (Actually, it was exactly for the reason he gave that the powers-that-were wanted the original one changed--but evidently it wasn't changed enough for him.)


Bumblebee movie spoilers to end of post






I don't have a lot of time to delve into this right now, but IMHO the whole go-cart thing in Bumblebee is one of the elements that was carried over from the book to the movie that probably shouldn't have been. Sometimes I wish the filmmakers for that one had renamed the characters, given it a different title, and just forgotten about the book, because the two are so different. (I'll take the movie over the book any day!) The go-cart works--and ends up being very important--in the book, but the circumstances that make it work don't exist in the movie.






Bumblebee movie and book spoilers to end of post








The book is extremely dark. After reading it, I found out (probably in this thread ;) ) that the author was known for his dark young adult novels, and this one certainly fits the bill. I was disappointed when I found out the author died some years ago--I would have loved to have asked him some questions!

Anyway, regarding the go-cart: In the book, Barney does push the go-cart out of an attic window with the just-expired Mazzo in it. But what becomes important is Barney's memory of the event. Except for Cassie's voice (which he knows is familiar but can't put a name to), the moment the Bumblebee flies out of the window is all Barney remembers as he lies dying (yep--I said it was darker). Otherwise, his mind is completely gone, but he finds solace in imagining the go-cart flying off into space. Since that's the only moment he remembers, of course, he relates to it as if the go-cart never returned to earth, and it becomes a very hopeful image to him as he's dying, although he doesn't know why.

So, obviously, the meaning of the entire incident changes in the movie, and IMVHO they tried too hard to wedge something in that didn't really have a point any longer. I think they could have found a different way to have Mazzo and Barney deal with the exact same issues--a way that would have worked for the tone of the movie, where we don't have a dying, nearly-brain-dead Barney at the end (thank goodness!).

The title even completely changes meaning from the book to the movie. It's a very intriguing transformation, but talking much about that would take a l-o-n-g post, which I just don't have time for now :o .

Boxers and jeans clarification.

All right. Let's see.
Since this has come up a few interesting things need to be said.;)

Elijah doesn't wear gansta jeans. He wears geeky old fashioned jeans, not the baggy,low-riders. He does love and collect many boxer shorts.(Some of us DO spend a bit of time playing the 'guess what's on his shorts game'. I say some kind of little animals.)

On the day that pic was taken last Sunday he had already spent two days in those jeans sitting for about 7 hours each day signing autographs for 2 thousand fans. (((((Shireling))))(She knows why!) This was AFTER a long flight from NY, as well. So his jeans were in that very relaxed and ready to fall down condition jeans DO get into after such a long time.

Also Elijah is very slim and has virtually no hips so...Again..the jeans sort of ..y'know gravitate downwards.

Also like many guys he stuffs everything he thinks he'll need into his jeans pockets.

The fans asked to see his tummy scars and thus the view of his tired jeans.

Hence the 'scientific' explanation of the conditon of his jeans in that pic.

OK...Back to Lij's film career......:D

Hello, dear Faculty! *waves*

I'm back from vacation -- well, madness, anyhow. I successfully got my niece married and kept all of the family talking to each other, so I feel very accomplished. Whew! *unfastens cape, collapses* It was rainy every day but one; between that and the very short hours of sleep, I caught a cold. I have no voice, so thank heavens for email.

I spent an enjoyable few hours catching up with the discussion here. Very lively! Very nice to read when one is sipping herbal tea and blotting her nose, although the inevitable laughs sound rather brayish at this point. Random thoughts follow:

First, a welcome to the newly delurked: Honeyelf and Serena. Great essay, HE! FWIW, I think you should just go ahead and buy CoF on VCD. I did, and it's a fun view.

Serena, loved your comments on EW's "androgynous beauty" and speculations about his weird appearance changes to perhaps counter that response. The problem is, the poor lad is blessed with angelic looks. I can't remember where, but I read in someone's LJ (about the charity function) that he should just get over it, embrace his ethereal beauty, and he'll be happier for it. But I guess we have to go through the weird hair phase first. :p

Tg, thanks for your Bumblebee explanation. I read the book and didn't quite get it. It was one of those endings where I went, huh? In the book Barney was plain and envied Mazzo who was so beautiful. I think they were both beautiful in the movie, and didn't resent the change one bit! I hope you can dredge up the original ending of Radio Flyer. That was a weird one, too.

kuduk, I missed the bit about the car being Steve's emotional abuse of Jane. Well done! (The Symbolism Queen bows in your direction.) I'll have to watch the movie again before I comment on the motorcycle -- darn! :D

Mel, I continue to enjoy your sensible comments about Oscar possibilities. I'm not very sensible (but I never pay attention to the awards, either, except if a LOTR film is in the running). I want everyone to be happy and just love each other. I think the EW/SA interviews showed plenty of love -- yea!

Worrying news about ESOTSM. I enjoyed the trailer simply because the music was so good. I hope it can retain its artistic integrity and not die a death by committee. From the little I've read, I believe EW's character in that one has definite shades of gray.

Enjoying all the Collectormania madness. Thanks for your LJ combing, Sheryl! I really appreciate your quote selection.

I think it's pretty pointless to compare Orlando Bloom's career to EW's (says Mariole, trying to convince herself). They're such different types that I can't even imagine them in the same movie, unless they had a lotta makeup on and wigs or something. A movie with a lot of wigs and balrogs, for example. Other than that, there doesn't seem to be much in common. I don't think EW is cut out for "action hero," regardless of his capability to handle an intensely physical roll. I really got a kick out of his pratfalls in AIW/Try 17, and loved the footchase in CoF. The boy can do it all -- well, except sing. :p

And for those of you who didn't know Sean Bean was in Troy, I'm sure this will help you remember:

http://home.ricochet.com/mdes/limages/sean-troy.jpg

Check out this link for some MAJOR ROTK SPOILERS

http://www.theonering.net/perl/newsview/8/1066424345

This EJW interview snippet is more than mere spoilers: it's downright DISTURBING. :( :( :( especially his comments about

*spoiler:
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Frodo having moments of "pure evil and hatred"
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end of spoiler...

ACK!!!!

Although the comments in the article are supposed to discuss Elijah's dramatic range, it makes my blood run cold. Maybe that's PJ's intent. Wood once stated in an interview that some parts of ROTK were "hard to watch." After reading this I can believe it.


I think I'd better post this over on the ROTK Spoilers thread, too, unless someone else already has.;) ....

From E!Online's buzz about Best Actor Oscars, linked from TORN:
But I'm holding out for my hero, Viggo Mortensen, who has done the best work of his career in the Lord of the Rings trilogy. I'm pulling for him to take the gold and praying that the wee Elijah Wood is not ignored.
Well, at least someone's mentioning him, even though he's the sixth mentioned (and there are five nominees).

Also linked on TORN, from Realms of Fantasy magazine
SPOILERS for RotK to end of post
















"Frodo in the third movie ceases to be Frodo," Wood says. "He reaches a kind of evil center that you don't think is possible. It is quite a wide range of emotions. I think part of what attracted me to Frodo is that I got a chance as an actor to take a character from a very innocent place to the complete opposite. He's sort of innocent and naive at the beginning, and at the end he's lost his innocence. He has these moments of pure evil and hatred.

"Once the ring is destroyed, he's still Frodo, but his innocence is gone, and he can never get that kind of purity of soul back. So there's a real sadness to Frodo at the end."

(Just breathe deep and focus on the range of emotions and don't stress about the pure evil and hatred. Good acting. Just think about good acting.)

Mel

Continuing boxer commentary:

You have to understand that for those of our (mine and Elijah's) generation really tight and high pants (except baseball pants :) ) on guys is just disturbing, kind of like seeing them in a dress and a coconut bra or something. Well, maybe not that bad, but it just sends the image of old and bleh. Now, I do feel there's a limit. I agree that many people wear there pants MUCH lower than Elijah, and sometimes you do wonder how on earth they stay up. Personally I'm a fan of about Elijah's looseness and perhaps a little bit more. But tight pants just don't work for us. It just feels wierd. Blame it on pop culture.

LetYourLoveShine

Welcome back, Mariole--hope the cold is over soon :( . Added later: I'd originally quoted your Bumblebee and Radio Flyer mentions here, too, with the intent of saying some more about them, but will have to come back later to do that... I'll either edit or add a new post, whichever fits.

Originally posted by Mariole
...I can't even imagine them in the same movie, unless they had a lotta makeup on and wigs or something...
:D LOL

...I don't think EW is cut out for "action hero," regardless of his capability to handle an intensely physical roll.
Yeah, and sometimes the physical roll is even part of a fairly physical role ;) :) .

I really got a kick out of his pratfalls in AIW/Try 17, and loved the footchase in CoF...
One of my long-term goals (unless someone else gets to it first ;) ) is to do a side-by-side comparison of the footchase in CoF and Jones's run to the window when the "delivery men" :rolleyes: arrive. I think the two events have a lot in common. I'd also give Casey an honorable mention in the list of EW's klutzy characters.

EW's talents definitely include the ability to "act clumsy" (as opposed to people like me who really are clumsy, so certainly couldn't act that way on cue :p ). I was about to say this was one of his comedic acting talents, but the Fabulous Falls of Frodo also owe a lot to it--as do probably some of his other serious roles, although when it's played really well, of course, it's not noticeable, so I'd have to specifically watch for it--although I suspect it would show up in Radio Flyer, The War, and The Ice Storm (well, forget the "expect" regarding IS--the football playing and the wine spilling are classic!). [ (((Hugs))) to anyone who managed to read that last sentence without taking a breath ;) . And, yeah, I talk like that, too.]

The fact that acting clumsy is more difficult than acting "normal" is a bit more in my mind right now because I went to the circus a couple of days ago and they had a clown that simply put the serious performers to shame. His goofing around on the high-wire had to be twice as hard as what the "real" high-wire artist was doing--except that the real one had to make allowances for the clown's actions, which was probably not easy, either. I think of Elijah's talent for this every time I see Frodo not fall down when he's backing away from Aragorn on Amon Hen. If I tried that, I'd not only fall backwards, but go over the side of the hill that's right behind him! ("Stay aw-a-a-a-y-y-y..." :D )

----------

mel, thanks for the interview info. I read what was posted in the spoiler thread before I came here. I subscribe to Realms of Fantasy, but it always seems to show up on the newsstands before I get my copy. And, FES, anyone who hasn't read the book stay away from that link/interview/article :eek: ! RoF assumes that its readers know LotR, so they don't hold back story spoilers.

One (non-spoiler) thing I've noticed in a couple of Elijah's recent interviews shows up in this one, too, IMHO. Although he's still refusing to state upfront whether or not he's "read the book," he sure comes out with some statements that sound as if he has--and has even done some reflecting on it. Maybe he's decided for some reason to avoid answering the question (feels it would be admitting that he hadn't read it earlier? hasn't completely read it cover to cover? doesn't want to be "tested" by a Tolkien geek at a convention?), but IMHO what he's said within the last few months has indirectly told people who are familiar with the book that he knows what's in there, too. This would fit with earlier speculation that he didn't want to completely read the book until after he'd finished shooting the movies.

----------

And, finally, I was going to let the loose pants thing die a natural death, but since it's still alive, here's a take from way on the other side of the generation gap. I've been told that "elderly" people tend to get less worked up about fads, because they've seen it all come and go before. While I don't yet consider myself to be quite elderly, that's certainly how I feel about it. When I was in high school, OTOH, the "fashion" for the boys was to wear absolutely skin-tight pants, which showed a good deal more of the male anatomy, if you take my meaning :o , than do loose jeans--even if they'd fall all the way down! Boxer shorts?! Unheard of!! I wouldn't be surprised at all to read a research report some day that partially attributes the lower fertility rate in my generation to those tight pants :rolleyes: .

For some reason, the girls seem to be better at avoiding extremes. My only "problem" with how they're dressing these days is suppressing a grin and not running up and saying, "Oh, that's so cute! It's exactly how I dressed when I was your age ;) :p !

I've seen just about every hairstyle go from rebellious to mainstream to conservative--and sometimes back again.

Elijah's a great kid with his head on straight and his values in the right place. As far as this old codger's concerned, how he dresses or wears his hair has nothing to do with that (and doesn't have even a fraction of the same importance). Oh, yeah, and his acting's not half-bad, either.

------------

P.S. because I just noticed it--I've now had the official Frodo screensaver on my home computer long enough to permanently burn the LotR logo into my screen. Oh, well, too late to change it now ;) .

from tgshaw
sometimes the physical roll is even part of a fairly physical role
Mea culpa. :o I could blame it on the cold... nahhhh!

I believe in one of the C4 quotes Elijah did explain how much of the actual book he'd read -- most of the first and bits of the others, plus Sean Astin would read out sections to him. So we'd better continue to mark our ROTK spoilers, because if Elijah pops in here, we wouldn't want him to be surprised by the ending. :D (Actually, I believe the foregoing thought process is directly attributable to my cold. Even I'm going "huh?")

Uh, are we marking ROTK book spoilers? I know I've referred to the third book in some of my posts. Is it just movie, or also book references, that we should flag? For instance, I assume everyone knows about the Elven kickline and pig festival in Book VI, even though it won't likely appear in the movie. (Now I'm starting to think that I've had waaaaay too much cough medicine.)

On another topic ("Thank goodness," you all cry), I was impressed, and just a little worried, over how aware Elijah was of the internet gossip. He certainly had the stories about him right! He says he only looked into this about 3 months ago and doesn't plan to make it a regular thing (I'd hope not; he'd be driven insane). But it is interesting to note that, although he said he felt "voyeuristic", he in fact had read some internet sites where they discussed his acting or characters. I like to think that, if he ever did drop into K-D, he'd have a fairly good experience -- that is, assuming he figured out that "Faculty Lounge" equals "Elijah's acting career discussion".

Hey guys. Welcome back, Mariole. Glad to hear that the family event went well, sorry to hear that you've got a cold now, and now Oh My. Sean Bean. :eek: :little off-topic swoon: Ooohh. Thank you. I won't be forgetting now, oh no. Never will.

Originally posted by Mariole
On another topic ("Thank goodness," you all cry), I was impressed, and just a little worried, over how aware Elijah was of the internet gossip. He certainly had the stories about him right! He says he only looked into this about 3 months ago and doesn't plan to make it a regular thing (I'd hope not; he'd be driven insane).

I'm on this self-imposed black-out of LOTR and Elijah-related fandom stuff till RotK comes out (Faculty Lounge not included, of course. what? you think I can't do it? ;) :p) so this is new info to me. Please! Tell!


Those Young Gregory Peck pics! :cool: Hobmom, you're amazing! :k :k Where do you find these most wonderful images?


tgshaw, you've mentioned the 'Bumblebee' book ending a few times, but I think this is the first time I understood the significance of 'bumblebee', at least in the book. :k And you now have 'The Faculty' on DVD too? I remember that DVD, and the DVD for 'Black and White' were original DVDs that I would see every time I went to a nearby legit DVD/VCD shop. I never purchased either because they just cost too much for so little -- I mean, neither had any special features. At some point, someone rich must have purchased 'The Faculty' to complete his horror spoof collection; either that, or there's another EW fan living somewhere around here, and that fan has way more money to spend than me. :D B&W is still available at that shop though. But that's something I wouldn't even want to own. :o

Say, tg, you're capping the IS football scene, right? ;)

Oh, and Bridget, thanks for mentioning that 'no, it ain't real widescreen' info re: 'Back to the Future'. That was one thing I was quite willing to cough up money for, in order to buy original. I just never got around to it because it cost too much and I'd rather spend on LOTR and other interests first. Now that you tell us this, I'm so glad I never coughed up any money for BtF.

Speaking of piracy, hey, at least the pirates got their priorities right, and made sure millions of viewers around the world knew what needed to be given true consideration:

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-7/280194/foryourconsideration.JPG

;)


Have a good weekend, everyone!


And I the only one wondering why the 'pants' game isn't getting a good start yet in this thread? :D

Originally posted by kuduk
[boxer shorts rant] <CLIP> Actually, that photo just reminded me of the gansta types who wear the jeans very, very loose and very, very low with very bright boxers.

My problem with guys in loose, low-slung jeans is all the overweight guys I've dealt with working on my house - plumbers and the guy who does my kitchen (who is big but not really overweight but has no hips) - who've inadvertently shown me far more than I'm interested in, thanks. Definitely NOT a sexy association there, nope. In EW's favor is the fact that I've not seen his boxers except when he meant to show them - when he's showing his tatoo or scars. Otherwise he's got a nice long shirt on or whatever and I'm very happy either way, thanks.

Originally posted by kuduk
[Has anybody seen Mariole or deluby lately?

Still missing deluby myself. Don't even recall seeing her in Hugs in quite some time.

originally posted by Mariole
Uh, are we marking ROTK book spoilers?

Preferably. Let Your Love Shine and someone else are holding off on the book until they've experienced the entire story through the movies.

originally posted by Mariole
that is, assuming he figured out that "Faculty Lounge" equals "Elijah's acting career discussion".

I confess I feel that we're fairly "hidden" here - when we first moved to KD people who knew they were looking for the Faculty had to wander a bit to find us!

originally posted by ainon
I'm on this self-imposed black-out of LOTR and Elijah-related fandom stuff till RotK comes out (Faculty Lounge not included, of course. what? you think I can't do it? ) so this is new info to me. Please! Tell!


Haven't found a transcript, but this is from a person who took notes (second CM4 panel):




Q: What do you think of the rumours about yourselves on the internet?

Elijah: Oh, you mean the homosexual thing?

Sean: No, they mean the you and Dom thing.

Elijah: I think that it is so funny. I only heard about it around three months ago, I'm gay and Dom's gay and we're under some contract from New Line that says we can't reveal our love for each other? It's hilarious. One said Dom was meant to be dating my sister so he could secretly see me more. Ridiculous. But we've been playing up to it now, and making gay jokes, which I guess perpetuates the rumours even more. I think at one point all the hobbits were meant to be gay on set with each other, which is insane.

Sean: I don't understand why you can't have close male friends without getting gay rumours.

They went on to say that if it didn't hurt anyone they weren't that bothered by rumour. Over in the Two Towers talk, Dom was addressing the same question, asked a little more directly, I believe. He denied it and said he and Elijah were going to walk the red carpet for ROTK holding hands. I'm told Lawrence then suggested the film be renamed 'Return of the Queens.'



Another version:


Q about seeing stuff on internet, and lurking on forums like TORN and Bit of Earth.
A When billyboyd.net first came out Elijah would leave messages on it, but he stopped doing that quickly, decided it was a lot more fun just to call him. Said that he goes to TORN, but straight to the news section because it keeps him updated about where everyone else is. As far as the internet is concerned, Elijah has seen rumors about him and Dominic being gay, he specifically mentioned the story about Dom dating Hannah so that he could secretly be with Elijah, and the rumor about how they had signed contracts with New Line that restricted them from coming out. He was shaking his head a bit when he recounted that rumor. Elijah said that on set there had been a rumor that all the hobbits were gay and he said that they had played that up all the time afterwards. Elijah looked at Sean and asked what it was about good guy friends that there's always jokes about being gay. Sean looks at the audience, no one answers, and Sean says, "See they don't know either." Sean also says that Sir Ian had "shown them some stuff on the net a long time ago" but that he didn't really think that all these people writing about the different pairings was a big deal, He specifically said that "they aren't hurting anyone".


Most of the reports I've seen have EW asking the, "Why are close male friends always considered gay" question, but I have yet to track down a transcript so who knows. Surely *someone* took a tape player in there. *sigh* But that'll give you an idea of what's out there. Clearly they've heard the gist of the rumors; hopefully they haven't heard the nastyer stuff about Sean, which is sort of peripheral.

Sheryl

Mariole_-What kind of cough medicine are you taking? Seems to work quite well.;) Pass it around!

Sean Bean! Umm..er... you can kind of see up his..erm...skirt...toga...thing. Still he looks... interesting.:D Hey, does Orli wear one of those, too?

Elijah's comments about Frodo seem to match what happens in the book. Frodo does have his evil moments when the ring really gets to him. And Frodo is completely changed at the end of the book from the carefree hobbit he was back in the Shire. That's why we all love Frodo, I thought. The range of things he goes through and the changes he undergoes. From innocence to extreme angst. Elijah has brought this so brilliantly to life that when he's onscreen he IS Frodo.

I'm not worried about his comments. The Ring does eat into Frodo's heart, mind and soul(maybe this should be discussed in that very thread.) I think what Elijah stated is just supporting what should happen onscreen anyway.

Has Elijah actually read the entire trilogy. Nope. As Mariole said, at C4 he said he's actually only read half of it. But Sean DId read more of it to him. And he has lived four years being surrounded by and immersed in it. I'm sure he knows what the book says even if he didn't actually read every word personally.

He also stated he's read a lot of fanfiction(watch out fellow writers, somebody is reading our stuff;) ) and he knows the difference between stories that are canon and those that are not. Which tells me he knows what's really in the books.

Back to the jeans. I DO think that that particular pair of jeans was once up to his waist but his wearing them for days on end and the ammount of things stuffed in his pockets really pulled them down. Also in most photos Elijah is wearing the 'old-fashioned' high waisted jeans of the type so appreciated by my generation. ;)

So you all like those GP type pics. Well I found better versions. I find them at LJ. That's why I have my own Journal and hang out over there so much.
http://www.angelfire.com/celeb2/elijahw/1769126.jpg http://www.angelfire.com/celeb2/elijahw/1769127.jpg http://www.angelfire.com/celeb2/elijahw/1769132.jpg http://www.angelfire.com/celeb2/elijahw/1769133.jpg http://www.angelfire.com/celeb2/elijahw/1769140.jpghttp://www.angelfire.com/celeb2/elijahw/1769137.jpg

A few posts while I was writing (obviously, when you see the length of this post :rolleyes: )--

Sheryl--IIRC, Alyon's daughter is the other person who's said she's waiting to read the book until after seeing all the movies.

Hobmom--I don't know if we've been reading the same comments, but the ones I've seen where someone says they're "disturbed" about Elijah's Frodo remarks, they mean that in a good way (as in angst appreciation :) ). I had to read some of the comments a few times to sort that out, but I'm pretty sure that's what was meant--at least in the ones I read.



--Old Codger Rambling Ahead--


After my last post, I realized that it probably came across as saying the people who have problems with youth fashions should just "get over it," but I realize it's more complicated than that. In my position as Old Codger, I should say that I also understand where the concern some people have over certain fashions comes from. Often it's in the origin of the fad. As was mentioned earlier, the low-slung, loose pants did start out as something that gang members wore (this is very different from the loose-fitting shorts that started out with skateboarders--I'm definitely not equating the two groups!). But it seems that a lot of "styles" eventually move out from the original group using them to that group's wannabes, and from there out into the general population of that age group. I'm sure if you asked a typical boy wearing his pants like that what it means if one person wears his lower than someone else, he'd have no idea that in a gang it might actually communicate something.

But, the thing is--and I've seen a lot of fashions go through this stage, too--by the time a fad is adopted in the general population, the group originating it (a gang, say) has moved on to something else. So the kids who're wearing the "latest styles" are often wearing stuff that's already been used and discarded by someone else--possibly so far removed from them that they're not even aware of where the fad came from.

Adults who see them wearing those styles, OTOH, often remember very well where the styles originated, and to them a fashion that started out in a gang is still gang-related--and potentially even dangerous (there are some neighborhoods in Omaha where I'd still never wear a red--or blue--bandana or a Raiders' jacket, even though those things are extremely dated as gang symbols). So it can be a challenge for adults to separate out real problems from what used to be the outer signs of real problems.

So it may be helpful for younger people to understand that some adults aren't upset about their fashions as fashions, but are reacting more to what they mean--or, at least, what they used to mean.

We probably still need that nice, mellow song from the sixties that told parents to "teach their children well" and also told children to "teach their parents well." Sometimes the only thing causing problems is a lack of understanding of where the other viewpoint is coming from.


Don't worry--This is the end of any dissertation on the subject--but after my last post I felt I needed to be fair to the "other side."



End of Old Codger Rambling (at least on that subject :rolleyes: )

-----------

Mariole--We've got a couple of people who saw the FotR movie before reading the book and these brave souls have decided to see the complete story in one medium before moving on to the other. So, to answer your question, yes, please label even book spoilers for RotK. We'll just have to hope they forget about the Elven kickline before Dec. 17 (I sure hope I do :p ). BTW, I understand PJ decided to leave the pig festival out of the movie (couldn't find a suitable person to play Farmer Giles of Ham, it seems); something else for us purists to get upset about :rolleyes: !

Originally posted by ainon
tgshaw, you've mentioned the 'Bumblebee' book ending a few times, but I think this is the first time I understood the significance of 'bumblebee', at least in the book.


Another dose of Bumblebee book spoilers









In both places, it's from the idea of a bumblebee being able to fly even though it shouldn't be physically possible for it (which, if you really get into the physics of the whole thing, is an old wives' tale :rolleyes: ). But in the book it's from something Cassie says when Barney tells her about the car he's building. It has nothing to do with the experiment being performed on Barney--since in the book the experiment isn't meant to help Barney at all. He and the other kids at the Center are simply useful guinea pigs because they're dying anyway. The experiments have nothing to do with what's killing them--Barney's is simply about memory retention.

After hints from someone who'd read books by that same author (was it BunnieBugs?--it's been too long for me to remember :o ), I realized the doctor running the place wasn't stupid, as I originally thought, but was positively evil! While I was reading the first part of the book, I was confused about the experimentation seeming to have nothing to do with Barney's illness. Then, after the experiment gets halted, the doctor makes the remark that possibly the procedure had been responsible for Barney's disease going into remission, and I thought, "Ah-ha, here it comes." But it didn't!! The experiment is never resumed, Barney's sent off to die... and that's it! Before finding out about the author's proclivities, I was dumbfounded at this--if any researcher I know thought he might have found a way to send [unnamed fatal disease, as they all are in the book] into remission, he certainly wouldn't have just quit! I thought, "Gees, how stupid is this guy?" OTOH, if what he's doing is running an underground, secret experimental facility that follows none of the guidelines of ethical medical research, his behavior is a lot more understandable. When I looked at the events in the book from that perspective, it all made a lot more sense.

That's why I think the change from book to movie is especially interesting in this one. If I were going to make a guess, I'd say that someone picked up on that one sentence about the possibility of the experiment being responsible for Barney's remission and retooled the story completely around that. Gave the doctors some ethics (there was only one doctor in the book--secret facility and all, you know). Had them doing experiments that actually were related to what was wrong with the patients. Completely turned the story on its head (as I said, I'll take the movie over the book any day). Pretty ingenious move, IMVHO.

Back when we first discussed this movie, IIRC someone found a story that indicated it had been another victim of assembly by committee--much disagreement between the director and the producers, leading to multiple changes. Besides the go-cart, there are a number of less-important things that were carried over from the book that just have no context in the movie, and I've wondered if the disagreements and changes could have caused some of that. Perhaps in the original script they did have a context, but that part got cut out? One example that seems to make a lot of viewers go "huh?" is Barney knocking on the door "for luck." That's straight out of the book, but it makes no sense in the movie. The ball bouncing is a rather inventive way (IMO) of bringing into the movie a mental rhythm "mantra" Barney uses when he starts getting upset about anything in the book. They made it visible/external, but didn't explain it. And the line thrown into the movie about the "aftermath" from the medication is from a theme that runs all the way through the book but becomes another "huh?" line in the movie.






End of Bumblebee book spoilers

Oh, and Bridget, thanks for mentioning that 'no, it ain't real widescreen' info re: 'Back to the Future'...
Ditto--That's definitely worth waiting for.

Speaking of piracy, hey, at least the pirates got their priorities right, and made sure millions of viewers around the world knew what needed to be given true consideration:
And showed me again how much useful (?) information I've picked up along the way. There's another person at the office who watches movies about as often as I do (although it seems he watches a different one each time :confused: ). When the VCD for TTT arrived, I told him about it and joked that you could tell its origin from the "For Your Consideration" across the screen. He just looked at me funny, and I realized that, yeah, a couple of years ago I wouldn't have known what I was talking about, either! I've never done a comparison of how many times the words come on with each character.


And I the only one wondering why the 'pants' game isn't getting a good start yet in this thread? :D
Do you mean the Imladris game that gave rise to "Gondor has no pants. Gondor needs no pants."? :) Or is this something new?

Everybody! You have to read this sweetest of accounts of a Lij encounter with a nice lady in a wheel chair at C4. He also says some very encouraging things about ROTK.

Ruth's Collectormania Report





Elijah comes in, smiling, with Dom behind him, and is wearing the One Jacket of Power, the brown cord one. He has on a dark green shirt and blue jeans. He looks absolutely gorgeous! He sits down, kisses his girl assistant, and signs a few pictures for staff. They call me forward. I wonder if I can breathe normally while all this is going on. I manage! Just.

I am wheeled up to Elijah's table. He smiles beautifully at me and gets up and holds his hand out and grabs mine and shakes it. I manage to put my index finger on his pulse point, as Honey Elf asked. His skin is as soft as a baby's, his fingers strong and his hands tiny, as is he. He is tiny, but so beautiful it takes your breath away!

Elijah, smiling beautifully. "Hi! How are you?"

Ru (smiling back). "Weary but willing. How are you?"

E: "Fine! Thank you so much for making the effort to come to see us today!"

R: "No effort! I wouldn't have missed it for the world! I have loved Frodo for nearly fifty years, and you are the personification of a dream. I wanted to see you, that's all, to thank you for making my dreams come true!"

E: "Oooh! Thank you SO much! That's very kind of you to say so! How wonderful!" (Shyly) Did you like my Frodo? How do you think I did?"

R: "You were perfect!"

E: (Beaming) "Oh, thank you SO much!"

I hand him my book, which is a limited edition of LOTR, black, with gold edges, on bible paper.

E: "What a beautiful book! Oh, Lawrence has already signed it! (To Ruth, best wishes, L. Makoare...Lurtz) Neat! What is your name?" Looks at me, and smiles again. Those EYES are unbelievable.

R: "Ruth".

E: "What a lovely name!" He thinks hard, bites the end of his pen, and writes -

"Ruth, Lots of love, Thank you for apreciating (sic) my frodo, Elijah Wood"

I hand him my picture of him. "This one is for my grandson."

E: "Your grandson - what's his name?"

R: "Jack."

E: "Jack!" Writes, "Jack, enjoy the journey, Elijah Wood"

Smiles at me again. I am a puddle on the floor by now, as you can imagine.

Girl assistant: (A bit stupid, but nice) "What journey?"

E: "Life. You should enjoy the journey." (Wise, wise, beautiful man.)

Smiles at me, again, hands me the picture.

E: "Does he enjoy the films?"

R: "The only time I've seen him sit still for more than ten seconds. He loves them!"

E: "Oh, that is so cool! Have you a camera? Would you like a picture?"

R: "Oh, thank you!"

Elijah leaped up from his seat, and enveloped me in a bear hug. "Aaah! It's so lovely to see you!", he said, as I handed him the camera. He gave it to an assistant, and knelt down by the side of my chair, put his left arm around me and squeezed me (no, I did NOT faint!) and put his other hand on my arm.

He smelt of citrus, lemony orangey with a touch of cinnamon. He has well defined muscles in his arms. I could feel them. (Just thought you'd like to know!!!) I ruffled the hair on the back of his head. He grinned at me.

He leaned his head towards me. I put my face next to his cheek. His skin there is like cream silk. He squeezed me, again. The boy took the picture.

E, to the boy: "Take one more, just in case. Hold the camera up the other way!"

He squeezed me a last time, patted my arm, rubbed his hand up and down it a few times, and went back to his seat. He signed a few leaflets for me, for friends.

They allowed Dom to sign my book to save us queueing again. Dom rose, and took my hand, smiling.

Dom: "Hello! I'm Dominic Monaghan. How are you?"

Me, smiling back: "I know!" He grinned. "As I said to Elijah, "weary but willing!" He grinned, again.

A woman came to sit behind him. Elijah smiled at her.

D: "This is my Mum!"

Smiled at Dom's Mum. "Hello!" She smiled shyly back. "Hello!"

He came round, and got down in the same position as Elijah had been, while the boy took the two pictures, I got squeezed again.

Dom went back and opened my book. "This is a beautiful book! Look at it, Lighe!"

E: "Yes, it is. The gold end papers. Un-believable! Fantastic!"

(Dom wrote - "Ruth, be merry! With Love, Dom Monaghan. See you in December...!")

R: "Yes, I love it. I'll have it buried with me!"

Elijah smiled softly. "Really?"

R: "No - I'll give it to my grandson."

E. Talking to me whilst Dom is signing it. "Have you seen the extended version of the Fellowship?"

R: "Seen it? I live in it! I've got four copies!"

E, laughing. "Four! Fantastic - that is great! Why?"

R: "Just in case!"

He giggles. "That's so neat! Did you watch the appendices?"

R: "I have watched it ALL - believe it! I've seen TTT eighty times, at least."

E, reverently. "Wow! That's so neat! Oh, wait until you see the last one! It is unbelievable. We cried for the whole last hour, didn't we, Dom?"

D: "Yeah, we did!"

R: "So, four boxes of tissues, at least, then!"

E, nodding. "Oh, at least! The last is definitely the best! You will love it! It is un-believable! Definitely the best has been saved for last!"

There was no pressure on us to leave, but there were a thousand fans standing behind me. I felt we should leave. My friend thanked them for being so kind to me.

"It has been my pleasure!", said Elijah. "See you in December!"

R: "I'll be there, God willing."

E: "Goodbye! Thank you again, for taking the time to come see us!" (As if WE were the ones conferring the favour.)

R: Smiling at Elijah. "And I did it all without crying - which I could easily have done, believe me!"

E: "Aaaw! Bye!"

D: "Bye, now!"

R: "Goodbye! God bless! And thank you!"

E: Bye!" Waves. So does Dom.



-Ruth

Well, I did let Hobmom get in a sentence there... ;) BTW, lovely story--Ruth had obviously been asked to report on certain qualities :) .

On the close male friendship topic. If the LotR movies are as widely watched in the years to come as I think they'll be, I could see them having an effect--however subtle--on the way men feel comfortable relating with each other and with their emotions. At least in the U.S., where it's more of a problem than in some other countries. That's a big reason I'm grateful PJ didn't pull any punches with physical emotion, especially in FotR, whether it was hugging or crying. Even better that it's shown as completely natural--no comments made or specific things done to point it out. Beautifully done, all round.

And if the actors remain close friends, and show it physically, that could have an effect, too, so I'm glad the rumors haven't made them stop. Maybe there will be a day when two male friends embracing won't even cause rumors--wouldn't that be nice?

Hobmom,
That was adorable. Thanks for linking to it. :)

Originally posted by tgshaw
On the close male friendship topic. If the LotR movies are as widely watched in the years to come as I think they'll be, I could see them having an effect--however subtle--on the way men feel comfortable relating with each other and with their emotions.

Totally agree. I am so happy that my sons have media heroes who aren't afraid to show their emotions - their dad is far freer with his emotions than my dad ever was, and I hope they share that freedom. Mind you, I'd like it if they showed more of the *positive* emotions, instead of bursting into tears over minor disappointments at the dinner table, but I guess you take the bad with the good... :p


Originally posted by tgshaw

And if the actors remain close friends, and show it physically, that could have an effect, too, so I'm glad the rumors haven't made them stop. Maybe there will be a day when two male friends embracing won't even cause rumors--wouldn't that be nice?

The Hobbit boys remind me of my sons, and I love it. My eldest son will tell other people, "I love you" (which, not surprisingly, freaks some other boys out), and he's very upfront with how he feels and stuff. I'm happy to report that his older male friends at church (teenagers) understand and appreciate him, even though they're not as demonstrative themselves. Maybe he won't be at that age, either, I dunno. By his age that sort of thing had been trained out of my brother, who has a similar personality. And my boys tumble and goof just like the Hobbit boys do (except my sons inadvertently knock things over, and there're more yelps of "Ouch" and "Cut it out" some days - but most days they're in tune).

I would assume if the hobbit lads have run across the rumors on the 'net, they've also run across the fact that the main sources of those rumors are subject to much ridicule within fandom - there's a whole discussion board dedicated to pointing and laughing at the craziness of the fans most pushing the whole Domlijah mythos. I suspect it's the same appeal behind enjoying really bad movies - the illogic is just stunning in its... inconsistent lunacy, I guess. I'm glad the guys can laugh, because it's very frustrating dealing with that kind of word twister, where no matter what you say, they hear what they want to hear.

Then again, it can be tricky, as a fan, to keep in mind that this is a person you don't *really* know, even though you do know so much about them. I always feel funny meeting famous people, because I feel that I have an unfair advantage - I know so much more about them and about their previous statements on various subjects than they know about me. All the normal conversational gambits with strangers seem silly, because I know the answers to most small talk sort of questions. :p

Sheryl

I forgot to mention that Ruth's story answers one 'vital' question for me. What does Elijah smell like? What does this have to do with his career.. probably nothing. But I've just been ..erm... nosey about this for awhile.

He evidently wears a citrusy, orange-cinamon scented cologne. Sounds like he may even know about L'Occitane! Y'know all the talk we've had about that over in the harem. They make a wonderful orange-cinamon batch of items and I was thinking of getting some even before I found out Lij likes that scent. Now I
will for sure!

As for that site Sheryl mentioned where everyone just has to vent and laugh at the rumors.. It can be quite funny if you bring your sense of humor along. We have learned how to post there and it can really get overwhleming seeing how ridiculous the rumor-mongers can be. Join us. PM us for the link if you want.

I just thought I'd have my say about the rumors, however repetitive. I think that people assuming that is so totally stupid. When I see too people who are really close, no matter the gender and especially if they haven't seen each other for a while, I think, "Ohhh!!! How sweet!". not " ew, they must be gay." And all the slash fanfiction doesn't help either...

ELijah's been reading fanfiction off the internet? Oh dear god. Maybe I don't want my site to become well known...

Speaking of my website, I exceed my bandwidth by like noon every day. Any one know of any free servers with more than 20 megs/day bandwidth?

LetYourLoveShine

Hobmom, I had to remove your link, but Ruth's story was so sweet I just copied it into your post.:)

tg - I love today's seed cake avatar.:D

Oops, sorry Bridgit, I figured it was OK because it didn't direct link to the main site. Or did it? Glad you pasted it in here though. It is one of the nicest Lij encounters I've ever seen.

Originally posted by LetYourLoveShin
Speaking of my website, I exceed my bandwidth by like noon every day. Any one know of any free servers with more than 20 megs/day bandwidth?

It's not exactly free, and I confess I don't know how to do the math, but the host I'm with charges $4 a month for 300 MB hosting disk space and 5.5 GB of monthly bandwidth. For $5 a month, it goes to 500 MB and 10 GB. (If you pay for a year at once, one month is free.) If you get close to passing your allotted bandwidth, they let you know and give you a chance to purchase some extra for that month, instead of just shutting you down. You also have to get a domain name, if you don't have one, which runs about $10/year depending on what you want.

Like I said, I have no idea how 20 megs/day stacks up against 5.5 GB/month, but if it sounds like something you might want to check out, PM me and I can give you their URL.

=========

(((Bridget))) -- How nice that you pasted the Ruth story into Hobmom's post instead of just cutting off the link. Above and beyond mod's duty, I'd say :) .

Originally posted by Hobmom
Oops, sorry Bridgit, I figured it was OK because it didn't direct link to the main site. Or did it? Glad you pasted it in here though. It is one of the nicest Lij encounters I've ever seen.

It doesn't link directly back, but it does link indirectly back to the main site, if you follow me. Since it is on the same site, with the same domain name, I had to remove it.

If anyone has any questions on what they can and can't link to, you can always PM me.:)

(((Bridget))) -- How nice that you pasted the Ruth story into Hobmom's post instead of just cutting off the link. Above and beyond mod's duty, I'd say :).

:o Aw shucks, it was nothing.:o Especially for a story that nice - how awesome are Dom and Elijah??:)

P.S. tg, it looks like I'll (hopefully) be coming up to Omaha for Thanksgiving and/or the week after Christmas this year!:D Can you say "movie fest"?:cool:

Thank you for the new pictures, Hobmom - they're gorgeous.

And that write-up of Ruth's Collectormania experience was lovely too.
I have loved Frodo for nearly fifty years, and you are the personification of a dream. I wanted to see you, that's all, to thank you for making my dreams come true!" It's wonderful that so many long-time fans of the books and of Frodo have this reaction, and tell Elijah as much. It must be so extremely gratifying for EJW to hear long-time fans tell him this (I know several people who went to Collectormania told him about the same thing when he signed their books or posters), especially in light of those long-ago "Kill me now!" screams when he first got the role.


I don't have anything to say regarding the internet rumour-mongering; - the people spreading such stories mange to characterize themselves well enough on their own. And I think both EJW and Dom Monaghan have dealt with the rumours in a good way. However, I'd like to say, that I hope we can reach a stage where "eww" will never be anybody's reaction to somebody either actually being, or possibly being believed to be, gay. Once we're that far, it will be much less "interesting" to spread that kind of rumour in the first place, because people won't care much to gossip or make a fuss either way. And guys will probably feel much more relaxed about showing each other affection, as well, 'cause they won't have to be so conscious about possible "rumours" starting.

Well, I'm awake anyhow, so some random thoughts.

I manage to put my index finger on his pulse point, as Honey Elf asked. His skin is as soft as a baby's,

Yeah, that was me:rolleyes: and to save you asking for explanations, as I have been asked else where, I have wondered for months what his skin felt like there. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Radio Flyer musing:

So do you suppose then that the little bro, Bobby actually died and the Mikey character dealt with it by believing he had rather flown away to great adventures? Forgive me, I'm just a bit dense here.

"All I Want" musings:

My favorite symbols in this film were his empty apartment and the way he kept looking out the peep-hole of his door. The apartment is occupied only by a few sticks of used furniture, like borrowed ideas. That trunk - literal and figurative baggage. And rather one-track minded ideas of his own like all the barware and all those bottles of wine which he purchased in his attempt to woo Lisa. And then the door which he keeps peering out of, like he's hiding away from the world, experiencing only the bits of it that literally come knocking. (And I admit it, I just loved the way the light came through it to shine on that lovely face.)

End Musings

Hobmom, those pictures are beautiful! Thanks for posting them!

Well, I know I just got here, but I'll probably be making myself pretty scarce in the coming weeks. I just got a new job, and I'm trying to avoid spoilers, so's to maximize the impact when I finally get to see RoTK. I know you all understand! :)

Honey!

Originally posted by Maeglian
Once we're that far, it will be much less "interesting" to spread that kind of rumour in the first place, because people won't care much to gossip or make a fuss either way.

I dunno. You're probably right, in that I suspect some of the people doing this are just looking for attention, but OTOH they are clearly attracted to the mystique and the coolness of being gay, and they're so wrapped up in sterotypes I think they'd be hung up on it even if the rest of the culture was pretty disinterested in the subject - they're living in their own little world, and reality has little to do with it. Labels are more important than people, and when people refuse to fit in their boxes they get all fussed.

My brother was an actor who worked on cars, and he liked to play with the respective sterotypes sometimes, because people made such goofy assumptions about him based on knowing one career or the other. Heaven knows the culture as a whole doesn't insist that actors not be mechanics, but some people just can't handle it when others don't fit into the boxes they've assigned. And the people spreading the rumors are totally of the "you're this, so you must be that" mindset.

The lady who most pushes the rumors is married to a gay guy, hangs out with gays most of the time, and says that she herself is transgendered. But she tosses off the most ludicrous sterotypes about gays on an almost daily basis - for instance, "Men with more-delicate bone structure and low body hair, etc. have lower levels of testosterone, which would tend to manifest in being slightly more passive than average, etc." This is the foundation of her argument that they're gay - not how they act, but how they're built. People in my parent's generation, who have no contact with gays in their daily lives, know better than that.

If she paid any attention to how they act or what they say, she'd recognize that Dom and Billy have a relationship as close or closer than the one between Dom and Elijah. And if she paid attention to the how the guys act, she certainly wouldn't argue that Dom and Elijah hate Sean! Her delusions have nothing to do with how the guys act. She goes into the most incredible contortions to make their actions and words fit with her delusions.

Whack-o fans are probably going to be par for the course for actors for time eternal, and the hobbit lads have a doozy.

Originally posted by Maeglian

And guys will probably feel much more relaxed about showing each other affection, as well, 'cause they won't have to be so conscious about possible "rumours" starting.

I really don't think the guys worry about starting or inadvertently supporting the rumors. Elijah and Sean especially have spent years in Hollywood, where homosexuality just isn't much of an issue. I doubt they worry too much abotu people thinking they're gay - EW and DM both implied that they've played up to the rumors, rather than being concerned that people might think the rumors are true. I may be projecting, but I expect they're more annoyed that their words are being twisted, and that people are trying to shove them into a sterotype, than they are by the particular stereotype chosen.

Thanks for reminding me that fans can be sane, guys.

((((((Faculty))))))

((((((Faculty lurkers)))))))

(((((KD)))))

Sheryl

Originally posted by honeyelf
Radio Flyer musing:

So do you suppose then that the little bro, Bobby actually died and the Mikey character dealt with it by believing he had rather flown away to great adventures? Forgive me, I'm just a bit dense here.

Radio Flyer spoilers




Your "denseness" is picking up exactly what the powers-that-were wanted built into the ending--just plain ambiguity! There are several interpretations of the ending, all of which have evidence that can point to them as well as to any other interpretation. Your interpretation is one of the most common, judging from reviews and previous discussions right here in the Faculty. Another one is that there's really only one boy, and Mikey is projecting his experience of abuse onto an imaginary brother.

The ending is written precisely to not have one "correct" interpretation. The ambiguity was meant to satisfy the people who didn't think it was good to give a fantasy ending to a story about child abuse, but it still makes a fantasy interpretation possible. (This is all from what I read earlier, at the same time I read the original script ending--as far as I know, it's what really went on at the time the movie was being made, but who knows?)

In the original script ending, grown-up Mikey and the boys are at the Smithsonian Air and Space Museum. He tells the boys how Bobby helped solve problems in the design of the space shuttle (dropping in seemingly from nowhere), and, IIRC, one or two other important aerospace programs. Then, just in case we think he's making it all up, the camera pulls back and we see the Radio Flyer hanging in mid-air, with no means of support. So, somehow, the "Big Idea" worked.

IMHO, this is meant to tie into one of the main themes of the movie--that children know that some things are possible (like making a wagon into a flying machine) that when they grow up they forget. I imagine that's why we never find out what the "Big Idea" was -- grown-up Mikey has forgotten it (interestingly, in the movie, it's Bobby--who's still more immersed in childhood than Mikey is--who comes up with the idea that makes the Radio Flyer actually fly. Mikey helps him "finance" and build it.)

The original ending being fantasy, it leaves some questions itself. Where is Bobby between the times he "drops in"? Why does his family hear about him on the news and receive letters from him, but he never comes home? And, the question that just might answer the others--how is he able to hang onto that childhood knowledge of what's possible, and use it, when enough time has passed that he should no longer be a child? That last point, especially (because it's such a strong theme of the story), IMVHO says that Bobby's not in our normal plane of existence. Is he dead? If so, what does "dead" mean? Is he in some parallel existence? Like most good fantasy (IMHO) it opens up more questions than it answers.

The more I've thought about it, the more the movie--especially with the original ending--seems akin to magical realism. And, as I said before, magical realism is one of my favorite kinds of fiction, because I like things that don't have cut-and-dried explanations. And, I think, because at some level I do believe that what we see as normal life isn't completely separated from the magical/spiritual/supernatural (or whatever other term you might want to use). Magical realism uses this "co-existence" as reality in its stories. It seems to me that this is just what Radio Flyer does, more strongly in the original ending, although I think there's enough of it left in the rewrite to keep it as one of the possible interpretations. The rewrite gives some options for people who want another interpretation.

For myself, in deference to the writers' intent, I look at the story from the fantasy viewpoint. But I wouldn't want to push that interpretation onto anyone else. I have to say that I do see the point of the people who didn't want a fantasy ending to a child abuse movie that's going to be seen by abused children and the abusers themselves. But I feel okay keeping that interpretation in my own mind. It might have been better if the writers had found an avenue other than abuse to give us their ideas about the magic of childhood.

If you've seen or read Like Water for Chocolate, it's a good example of magical realism. I think I might also put Edward Scissorhands in that category, although the normal-life part of the equation in that movie is surreal in itself!

Most things labeled "urban fantasy" or "contemporary fantasy" have some likeness to magical realism, too, IMHO, because the fantasy elements are set in our real world. As with all literature that has fantasy elements, it's difficult to draw clear lines between the different types--the fantasy "genre" is more like a rainbow, with one color gradually fading into the next one, than it is a box of crayons.

(When I start talking about fantasy in general, it's time to stop :rolleyes: , or I never will :o .)







End of Radio Flyer spoilers




--Good luck on the new job!



The talk about the rumors, crazy fans (whom we shall always have with us), etc., just makes me want to stay away from that stuff all the more! So, I won't be PMing anyone for URL's, thanks all the same :( . I wholeheartedly agree with Sheryl that there will always be people who get frustrated when someone doesn't fit into one of their preconceived stereotypes. Which, IMHO, must lead to a terribly frustrated life.


Bridget--That's very good news about the holidays! (I'll be out of town for Thanksgiving, but will be here during Christmas break.)

Sheryl, my "guys" were more your generic kind of guy, not EJW and his friends. From what I've read they're handling these matters admirably and quite relaxed and even humorously.


Wishing everyone at the Faculty a fine upcoming week! :)

She goes into the most incredible contortions to make their actions and words fit with her delusions.

I am familiar with the website you are speaking of. (It is, after all, one of the very best spots for hobbit-gazing!) I wouldn't go there for a while after I found some of it's content. Two things really ticked me about it.

* Her "social deconstructivism" for want of a better term. By that I mean the way she takes a quote and turns it on it's head to make it mean what she wants it to. It's like saying "John F. Kennedy was straight," and then assuming that because this statement was made it must necessarily mean that someone is trying to cover up the fact that JFK was, in fact gay. And if what I just typed made any more sense to you than it does to me, I wish someone would explain it.:confused:

* The thing that bugged me most of all though was that she feels free to speculate about someone's, anyone's sexuality in a public context when the person in question has not made any statements one way or the other. That just seemed extremely rude to me. I don't know/own, these lovely young men anymore than anyone else, and whether they are gay, straight, somewhere in between, or eunuchs is no fan's business as I see it. Yeah, incredibly rude.:mad:



"Men with more-delicate bone structure and low body hair, etc. have lower levels of testosterone, which would tend to manifest in being slightly more passive than average, etc." This is the foundation of her argument that they're gay - not how they act, but how they're built.

I know a young man who fits that description, and many people his age (about the age of Elijah) make the assumption that he is gay, based soley on these physical attributes. Ridiculous.

Having said all that, I ran into a web-site that had me rolling on the floor laughing one night. I remember one quote in particular referring to the infamous cupmake/mouse picture, that ran something like this: "Elijah Wood + pink + pastries = Elijah Wood is very, very gay!" I busted up because it was obvious (to me, at any rate) that the person was making fun of exactly the sort of innuendo that the mistress of a certain web-site makes use of.

Originally posted by shilohmm
...But she tosses off the most ludicrous sterotypes about gays on an almost daily basis - for instance, "Men with more-delicate bone structure and low body hair, etc. have lower levels of testosterone, which would tend to manifest in being slightly more passive than average, etc."
On that basis, if I go to an electrologist to get rid of unwanted facial hair, I must be an aggressive lesbian... right :confused: ? But then I wonder what she'd do with the fact that I wear tops two sizes larger than my skirts because the clothing industry thinks my *** are too big for my body? Tricksy things, those hormones ;) .

The connotation that gays are inherently "slightly more passive than average" is :confused: , too.

If she paid any attention to how they act or what they say, she'd recognize that Dom and Billy have a relationship as close or closer than the one between Dom and Elijah.
Well, maybe Billy's not the jealous type :rolleyes: .

And if she paid attention to the how the guys act, she certainly wouldn't argue that Dom and Elijah hate Sean!
What???!!!!


Her delusions have nothing to do with how the guys act. She goes into the most incredible contortions to make their actions and words fit with her delusions.

Whack-o fans are probably going to be par for the course for actors for time eternal, and the hobbit lads have a doozy.
The only thing I'm interested in knowing about this person is whether she's a solitary loony or has a "following" of people who agree with her. A couple of years ago, someone showed me a website dedicated to warning people to keep The Chronicles of Narnia away from their kids because C.S. Lewis was an instrument of the devil. It would be laughable if not for the fact that the guy who puts it out has people who consider him their "minister" and send him emails and money. It's a little unsettling to know there's a group of people out there crazy enough to believe this stuff.

---But, y'know, that idea of such people being upset when someone doesn't match their stereotypes really fits them. Because Lewis called himself a Christian but wasn't precisely what they think a Christian should be, they've decided he must have been purposely deceiving everyone in order to lure them away from God. Besides the fact that his characters smoke, and drink, and dance :eek: , the most damning thing about Lewis is that he was friends with Tolkien. So we don't need to go into what they think of Tolkien, do we? :rolleyes:

Oh, the lady who started and propagates the rumors has a very faithful and scarily blind following. Though many have left off from her 'cult' because they realized she is a little... well, honestly, a lot, delusional.

Sheryl thought I was exaggerating the influence this person has over her people until she checked things out for herself. Now she knows I was only hinting at the fringes of the insanity. Likewise Europanya, who personally could care less about the guy's orientation. She was floored by the level of this person and her group's fierce adherance to their beliefs in spite of all reason. Euro presented much evidence from personal experience to disprove the rumors and got soundly put down by the leader of the cult as do any that dare to disagree with her.

This really is a very strange psychological phenomena if nothing else. The thing is it gets fascinating to see how this whole thing develops or as it may be beginning to do, disintegrate under the effects of the guys simply standing up and telling the truth.

I'm just glad Elijah and Dom have spoken up for themselves and have stated that they find the rumors laughable and untrue.

Originally posted by Maeglian
Sheryl, my "guys" were more your generic kind of guy, not EJW and his friends.

Beg pardon, Maeglian. I should have read that more carefully. And also sorry about the rant - should probably have done that on my LJ. Guess it's been building up the last few weeks.

OTOH, if others want to vent with me, I'm all for that... :p ;)

originally posted by honeyelf
That just seemed extremely rude to me. I don't know/own, these lovely young men anymore than anyone else, and whether they are gay, straight, somewhere in between, or eunuchs is no fan's business as I see it. Yeah, incredibly rude.

That's it in a nutshell. Exactly how I feel. I really hate that she's made such an issue of this - but I agree with the guys who set up the Sanity site that it had reached the point where she and her rumor mill needed to be challenged directly. She was saying extremely nasty things about Ian and Sean - and for that matter, she was saying nasty things about Dom and Elijah, above and beyond the "they're gay and I know it" routine.

And the Very Very Gay site does indeed parody the exact brand of logic in use here - "tinhat logic". The fundamental rule of tinhat logic is "force all data into conformity with preconceived notions."

originally posted by tgshaw
The connotation that gays are inherently "slightly more passive than average" is :confused: , too.

Heh. Good point. I suddenly remember a "slightly built, small" gay friend of mine, and fitting him into the "passive" box ain't gonna happen, even if you allow for the "slightly more than average" qualifier.

originally posted by tgshaw


And if she paid attention to the how the guys act, she certainly wouldn't argue that Dom and Elijah hate Sean!



What???!!!!


Yeah, that was about the last straw for me. That and the idea that Ian McKellan is working for the "evil PR" in order to keep poor Elijah and Dom from publicising their love. I mean, I would hazard a guess that every famous and attractive actor has to deal with gay rumors, but this was just completely over the top into being just plain nasty with everyone surrounding them.

originally posted by tgshaw
The only thing I'm interested in knowing about this person is whether she's a solitary loony or has a "following" of people who agree with her.

The last estimate I saw was that she's got at most twenty hard-core followers. I think she actually had more influence a year or six months ago, just because people didn't look into her claims and thus thought she knew what she was talking about. A group of fans put up a website outlining her basic claims, with her "evidence" in favor of them, and I honestly think that's killed a lot of it. Because as soon as people actually sit down and look at the evidence, most people realize they're dealing with a crazy.

Plus the guys have begun to challenge her position, probably starting with Dom's interview in the fan mag this past summer where he discussed that he's straight, and then followed up by separate statements made by Dom and Elijah at CM4, and then followed by something Ian McKellan posted to his website recently. At this point it simply isn't possible to accept the idea that they're gay without calling EW, SA, DM and IMcK flat liars.

Not that it's any of our business, one way or the other, IMHO. tears hair I feel bad that the guys felt they had to address it.

I don't think the hard core group will ever give up, so long as the ringleader keeps pushing it, but I frankly don't expect the group of "True Believers" to get any larger and I predict it'll shrink down after a bit to a few serious nutcases. I admit a certain amount of paranoia about someone getting angry with the guys for being straight (because the leader has set it up for that reaction), but thus far the True Believers have been able to spin everything said into shape for their beliefs, so that may never happen.

originally posted by tgshaw
It would be laughable if not for the fact that the guy who puts it out has people who consider him their "minister" and send him emails and money. It's a little unsettling to know there's a group of people out there crazy enough to believe this stuff.


I've long studied Christian leaders who indulge in "scripture twisting", and there are a lot of them, and it astonishes me how many followers they can get. Although I find that quite often, when a person buys into one Christian nutball, they're pretty likely to buy into a bunch of other nutballs, so there's a lot of overlap, but, woah, any way you count it there are lots of people out there crazy enough to buy into it. The Christian leaders are often far more skilled than the lady we're discussing, because they have to deal with the actual words printed in the Bible (always a bad sign when a Christian leader insists on the King James Version - much easier to spin because of the archaic language).

If you're dealing with a star, however, you can pretend to have information not commonly available (met him personally, have access to old or obscure interviews, whatever), so it's much easier to fake people out. Amateur time. :p Yeah, she makes me angry, but compared to Ezzo (who is encouraging parents to follow a system that could end up with their infants starving), or Gothard, or some of the other guys out there, she's ineffective enough that on a good day I can laugh at her.

The hobbits do. :D

Sheryl

Frodoshadowing?

:confused:

What did Elijah do in "the Faculty" in order to asked to play Frodo?

Did Dominic do ANYTHING to qualify him to try out of Frodo? Why did the STUDIO want him instead?

:confused:

Originally posted by shadowcatshadow
What did Elijah do in "the Faculty" in order to asked to play Frodo?
The connection wasn't quite that direct. It was just one link in the chain of coincidences (if coincidence you call it ;) ) that ended up with Elijah being cast. The Faculty was shot "on location" in Austin, Texas (hey, I'm just quoting the credits--seems a bit odd to have a story set in Ohio shot "on location" in Austin, Texas, but that's what it says).

Naturally, as we all know :p , the most important single thing about Austin, Texas, is that Harry Knowles of AICN lives there. He has a bit part in The Faculty, actually, playing "Mr. Knowles," a brilliant piece of casting :D . He and Elijah knew each other. Because of his connections, Harry had heard about the fact that PJ was going to make the LotR movies, and he said to Elijah, "You have to play Frodo." So Elijah made his audition tape and sent it in.

If he hadn't been shooting The Faculty in Austin, Texas, with Harry Knowles on the set, Elijah very well might not have heard about the project until it was too late to audition. That's the connection with The Faculty--had nothing to do with his actual acting in the movie.

That honor went to The Ice Storm. PJ almost didn't watch Elijah's tape, because he'd decided Frodo should be played by a Brit--although they hadn't been able to find the right one. But Fran had seen Elijah in The Ice Storm and told PJ he should watch the tape because Elijah had "an interesting face" :p . They watched the audition tape, found the "magic" they hadn't been able to find in anyone else, and Elijah got the part.

[This is all from various memories filed away in the brain over the last couple of years. If someone sees anything that needs correcting, please do!]


Did Dominic do ANYTHING to qualify him to try out of Frodo? Why did the STUDIO want him instead?

:confused:
Well, I'm :confused: on that one, too. This is the first I've ever heard that statement, and I have no idea what it's talking about.


--------------------------------

The following pics from The Faculty aren't "traditional" Froshadowings in that I don't have a specific Frodo shot to put right beside them, but I thought they kind of fit in:

http://www.imagemagician.com/images/tgshaw/Previous movies/capA2012-crop.jpg

http://www.imagemagician.com/images/tgshaw/Previous movies/capA2018-crop.jpg

And, in light of recent discussions, for everyone's viewing enjoyment :rolleyes: , here's a shot of Zeke's (Josh Hartnett) pants. See, you can tell right from the start that he's a troublemaker ;) :

http://www.imagemagician.com/images/tgshaw/Previous movies/capA2022-crop.jpg

--I'm working on some more "orthodox" Froshadowings from The Faculty. Still have to decide which shots show them the best.

Shadowcat, Dom read for the part of Frodo, as did many others, but was offered Merry instead. Dom had already been in a TV series, as well as two movies, prior to reading for the part. Why do I seem to think that Orlando read for Frodo's part as well? :confused:

Um, and good evening all. :)

Hi, Ezzie! And good morning - want a home-made breakfast bar? :D

Maybe Carly will wander by and answer Ezzie's musing on Orlando. I seem to remember he auditioned for Frodo as well, but he's too tall for them to have considered him for the part. :confused: Or did they only settle on the height thing after they'd cast Frodo? I would have thought they'd have the height thing broken down ahead of time, but somewhere I ran across the claim that they adjusted the heights after they cast Frodo - maybe it was just that Frodo's height determined the possible height of the other hobbit cast members, but even that seems unlikely if we're talking more than a few inches.

shadowcat,
tgshaw's report is accurate to the best of my memory. Glad Ezzie popped in with the info on Dom, 'cause I hadn't a clue. :)

originally posted by tgshaw
The following pics from The Faculty aren't "traditional" Froshadowings in that I don't have a specific Frodo shot to put right beside them, but I thought they kind of fit in

The shot of banged up and dirty EW from The Faculty reminds me very much of a shot of Frodo on the flet in the extended version of the DVD. The magazine cover more parallels the attitudes toward Frodo after his adventures than anything we'd ever see on the screen, but I do see the parallel. Wouldn't have thought of it as a Froshadowing, though. :cool:

Sheryl

Actually, I believe that the role that Orlando originally auditioned for was Faramir. I have never heard that he auditioned to be a hobbit (and if ever anyone did not look like a hobbit, it's Orlando!) And I also recall that the heights for the hobbits were adjusted after casting Frodo -- and they specifically looked for actors who were all about the same height.

Originally posted by shilohmm
The magazine cover more parallels the attitudes toward Frodo after his adventures than anything we'd ever see on the screen, but I do see the parallel. Wouldn't have thought of it as a Froshadowing, though. :cool:
Well, the magazine cover's definitely not what we'd usually call a Froshadowing. I just thought it was kinda cute that Elwood was fictionally on the cover of Time (as Casey) before he was really on the cover of Time (as Frodo). But, yes, the "Hero or Hoax" idea probably fits, too.



RotK book spoiler/Faculty spoiler







Something I'd noticed before in The Faculty, but had never consciously connected with Frodo, is that the alien does invade Casey. If he hadn't "caffeinated" it before it spit its little parasites onto him, he would have been taken over like the others. Those yucky marks on his face (which you can still see vaguely on the Time cover--good continuity :) ) are where the parasites exited from him when they died.

A purely physical invasion of Casey's person, but it reminds me somewhat of the Ring's mental and spiritual effect on Frodo.






End of RotK book spoiler/Faculty spoiler

Yup, Orlando tried for Faramir. He decided he'd just go for a smaller part since he figures he couldn't get anymore than that since he was just out of school. Then they offered him Legolas. Lucky, lucky man.

I heard Billy was the first actor cast for any part in the movie. They were probably looking for hobbit actors that were smaller to begin with. Wasn't Elijah signed second? (Or at least the second hobbit to come on board?) Dom was possibly signed last of anyone.

Originally posted by shadowcatshadow
Did Dominic do ANYTHING to qualify him to try out of Frodo? Why did the STUDIO want him instead?
This sounds suspiciously like another of Dom's deadpan jokes that people end up taking seriously - like the one about Lij being jealous because Andy Serkis was given another One Ring, and the one about Merry being the one who really solved the riddle that opened the Gates of Moria, and the one about .... etc. I may of course be wrong, but .....
Originally posted by esmeraldabrandybuck
Wasn't Elijah signed second?
Originally posted by shilohmm
somewhere I ran across the claim that they adjusted the heights after they cast Frodo - maybe it was just that Frodo's height determined the possible height of the other hobbit cast members
Frodo was certainly one of the first main characters to be cast. As PJ has said time and time again that he took one look at Elijah's tape and knew he had found Frodo, I think it's highly unlikely New Line disagreed - and even less likely that it would have become public if they did.
I seem to remember reading that the original Frodo specification required a male (surprise!) actor aged 18-24, height 5'4" to 5'7", good-looking, with an upper-class English accent (or something like that). I'm sure that was specified before Elijah was cast. With his brilliance with the accent (to quote PJ; and he had lots of Brits, including me, totally fooled at first viewing!), Elijah clearly fitted the part perfectly.

Wow, I've been out of circulation for a week and already there's a long list of interesting topics, not to mention fabulous pics, Hobmom, and some beautiful reports of encounters with the Man Himself (Shireling's over at the Hugs Haven is well worth reading - it made me cry!). There are loads more things to say, but they will have to wait till tomorrow. For one thing, I'm so glad the whole gayness myth issue has come up here, because some things I didn't know (but sort of suspected) about the main source of the rumours have now been explained - thanks, shilohmm! More on that later ....

Originally posted by serena
...and the one about Merry being the one who really solved the riddle that opened the Gates of Moria...
:D Yes, I believe Gandalf limits his praise of Merry to "being on the right track" :p . He doesn't give away the credit for actually solving the riddle ;) .

Frodo was certainly one of the first main characters to be cast. As PJ has said time and time again that he took one look at Elijah's tape and knew he had found Frodo, I think it's highly unlikely New Line disagreed - and even less likely that it would have become public if they did.
And PJ said that despite all the auditions they'd had before watching Elijah's tape, no one had seemed right for the part of Frodo. So it doesn't sound like a case of, "Well, we were going to cast that Monaghan character, but this one's better."

I seem to remember reading that the original Frodo specification required a male (surprise!) actor...
...Mary Martin being unavailable :p .
...aged 18-24, height 5'4" to 5'7", good-looking, with an upper-class English accent (or something like that). I'm sure that was specified before Elijah was cast.
It seems likely that they'd have to have some kind of parameters in order for the special effects to work, but they probably could have "played around" within the 5'4" to 5'7" range to cast Frodo, and then worked from there. And actors who are "fairer than most" are a dime a dozen, but to find one with that book-canon cleft in his chin... :cool:

...he had lots of Brits, including me, totally fooled at first viewing!
I just had to quote that, because it makes me so happy every time I read that statement from a Brit (you'd think I had something to do with it :rolleyes: ). It gives me a warm feeling because we know that accents are something Elijah has to really work at, as opposed to some parts of acting that seem to come so naturally for him. So, I hope he's proud of all the effort he put into it--and of the result.

Elijah clearly fitted the part perfectly.
And all the people cried, "Amen!" :) :)

Oh, Alyon just had to sit back with a glass of wine and look at the ceiling for awhile after reading the post of Marea's account (provided by Shireling) of her encounters with EW at the Charades affair in New York. Look for it in Hugs Haven and go to bed happy!!

(enjoying all the audition speculations--can't wait to see the tapes)

Ah!! Serena's back. Missed your erudition! And your insightful hobbit-knowledge.

Just wondering why it seemed that the public didn't know who would be Frodo for quite awhile. If Elijah was chosen early on, that is. At least TORN didn't know who would play Frodo till near the actual start of shooting.

I remember hearing about the two Sir Ians and ....you know... Liv:rolleyes: very early but not about Elijah till at least mid-1999. That's how it seems to my faulty memory, anyway. Perhaps cast members knew who would play Frodo before we did.

Must go digging through the TORN archives.

Didn't the alien let loose the parasites first, and THEN Casey "caffinated" the Alien?

Why didn't he die when the Alien hit him?

:confused:

Is there a quiz that asks "What Character From 'The Faculty' are You?"

:confused:

Just Curious.:D

SCS--I don't have time to go looking for it again, but IIRC it was not too long after you first asked about the quiz (at least I think it was you--if not I apologize for my faulty memory) that I posted a link to it in this thread. It shouldn't be too hard to find that post with a search for "quiz"--I don't think we use that word too often.



Faculty spoiler






And nobody died when the alien invaded them (except for the teacher whose "body was too old to take"). Their bodies just got taken over by the alien presence. But, as Stokley predicted, they were all freed when the "queen" was killed. The teachers who "mysteriously disappeared," according to the news reporter, I figure are the ones who'd been caffeinated while the alien was inside them, leaving their bodies dessicated and... permanently... dead (love the shot of the "restored" biology teacher during the closing credits, though :p ). I'd have to go back and watch the scene again to get the exact sequence of events when Casey kills the alien, but, as it takes a little while for the alien to take someone over, a second or two wouldn't really matter. [Can't check right now, as it's too early in the morning to stick in a DVD if I don't want my nextdoor neighbor reporting me as a "noise nuisance" :rolleyes: . Well, my computer is right up against his wall.]






End of Faculty spoiler


---------------


Hobmom--This is just a guess, but lately the topic's come up of Elijah & Co. liking to "play things close to the vest." Could that have had something to do with it taking awhile for his casting as Frodo to become public knowledge? I have to confess that, although I was "around" through all the casting announcements, I can't remember what order they came in. I do remember that PJ had some actors already in mind when he started the project (including the two wizards, IIRC, and possibly Bilbo), so he didn't have to hunt for actors to fill those roles--he just had to hope his choices said yes :) . I don't remember if Liv was one of those.

Following on recent discussions about Elijah's casting as Frodo, thought you might be interested to see the original Official Casting Description:

FRODO BAGGINS : A Hobbit.18-24 years old. Male.5’4” – 5’9”, normal build. Fine featured and good looking, Frodo is a natural leader. He is intelligent and carefree with a roguish sense of humor and a disarmingly boyish charm. Frodo lives in the shadow of his famous adventurer uncle, Bilbo, and longs to have his own adventures beyond the bounds of the Shire. However, when confronted with the terrors of the real world Frodo starts to doubt his own abilities. It is a testament to his courage and heart that, despite his misgivings and fears, he volunteers to take the Ring to Mordor. Frodo’s struggle with the malicious influence of the Ring pushes him to the brink of paranoia and madness. By the end of his journey Frodo is hanging by a thread, his strength almost gone, his carefree spirit broken. The Frodo who returns to the Shire is humble, quiet, haunted. Of all the characters in the story, Frodo has the most profound journey …

LEAD ROLE. APPEARS IN PART ONE, PART TWO AND PART THREE.
ACCENT: BRITISH

...he had lots of Brits, including me, totally fooled at first viewing!

I'm another Brit he had fooled - I'd hadn't heard of him before I saw FOTR & I was totally amazed when I discovered he's American - he sounded more English than me!! And what is even more amazing is that it isn't just an English accent - its a mixture of a rather posh, upper-class accent because Frodo is, after all, a higher class of hobbit, with a hint of West Country similar to Sam's. To be able to get this so right and for it to appear so effortless is really amazing.

I believe its correct that Billy was the very first to be cast. I understand that Elijah's tape was seen by PJ in May 1999 but no final decision was made until PJ had actually met him some time in the June. The official announcement was made either 7th or 8th July, followed very soon after by the announcement of Sean Astin's casting. I may be wrong, but I don't think Dom was ever considered as Frodo. I seem to remember that when they saw him they knew they'd like him for one of the parts, but not Frodo. Mark Ordesky made some interesting comments on the dvd commentary about Elijah's audition tape - can't remember exact words but it was to the effect that as soon as they saw it they knew the search was over.

Wow, Shireling, what a great post! It's totally cool to see the original Frodo role description. And your description of how Elijah does this particular accent so well -- :) :cool:

Since all our hobbit boys fit the height requirements, I can see how some may have been cast before others. I didn't follow anything about this movie until after it was released. In fact, I was in London a couple of days before the premiere of FOTR. As I said, I didn't know anything about it, wasn't following it, just happened to be passing through there on my way to a longer trip to Spain.

I remember reading about the premiere on the plane -- this must have been the return trip back. We had picked up a stack of British pubs to read en route. My sister and I laughed ourselves silly over the British term "snogging" which we had never yet been exposed to. My interest was caught by the fact that the premiere had been in Picadilly Circus ("Hey, I was just there!") and that I'd like to see this movie at some point, no real burning desire, just an intention that I had to see it, as it was Tolkien.

I particularly remember an account of two British girls who were interviewed in whatever paper it was, who were quoted as "shocked" when Elijah opened his mouth and this American accent came out. They seemed to think he pulled a fast one on them, sounding all British and then turning out to be this pretending American! (I don't think it diminished their fangirlish interest, however, but it required a serious mental adjustment).

Today -- I think I would have adjusted my vacation schedule by a couple of days to overlap the London premiere. But I didn't know. I hadn't yet fallen into PJ's Middle Earth, and didn't know what a vision it would be. :p

Mariole - that's strange.... I was in London 1 week before the premiere. I remember standing in Leicester Square, looking at the front of the Odeon, with the LotR logo and the Fellowship's 9 silhouettes etc. and thinking - "This *could* actually be something...... it looks quite good!" :rolleyes: Up till then I'd avoided all info on the film 'cause I felt sure it could never do the book any form of justice. :o :o (My only excuse is that I'd actually *seen* the Bakshi version before - he was my introduction to LotR). At that point, standing in Leicester Square, I didn't know who Elijah Wood was.


Shireling, thank you for the casting description. *Very* interesting to read! :)


Here's something that I thought was funny that I know only the Faculty'll *ever* understand: Anyone here seen a film called "28 days"? It's Sandra Bullock playing an alcoholic who's forced into rehab after a drunken driving accident. The film was on TV the other day, and I watched it for the second person on the cast list. :D Viggo Mortensen looks so different without the dark greasy hair!

But anyway, towards the end of the film there's a scene where the people in rehab (including Mortensen's character) are sitting in a circle, while the main character's sister confronts her in the middle of the circle about their past family issues, difficulties with their mother, and emotions and hurt because of the alcoholism. There's a part of the scene where the sister, who's played by Elizabeth Perkins, is in the foreground, and Viggo is sitting directly behind her. And all I could think, of course, was: Council of Elrond meets Jones Dillon's family traumas! :D

I recall some minor carping about Elijah's accent in FOTR when he says "But you've only just arrived!" and "Get off the road! Quick!" A few people though he sounded "American" delivering those lines. I've heard them dozens of times and have never felt them to sound different or out of character. These words are said with more force than most of Frodo's other lines, but to my American ears they sound just as British as all the others. It's wonderful to hear, again, how veddy British he sounded to ears that hear Brit accents every day of their lives.

I never used to think that PJ would make the audition tapes public. Yet, reading once again how Elijah's audition tape won him the part, I now find myself hoping that one day we will all get to see it, as has been rumored.

Sorry, everyone - it seems I was wrong about Elijah being cast early. Wonder where I read that - it stuck in my mind because it surprised me, as I too had assumed he was cast late as a result of the long search for a British Frodo. Oh well.

Yes, I too found myself watching FOTR for the first time and thinking "Who on earth is this amazing young English actor? Why haven't I heard of him before?". Yet since I didn't actually know the story at that stage, I spent most of the first viewing trying to work out who everyone was and what exactly was going on, despite adoring the film and leaving it dazed and sick with disappointment that I had to wait a year to find out what happened next (confession time: I deliberately avoided reading LOTR in my teens simply because everyone else was reading it - a very childish attitude, looking back - and haven't caught up with it yet; now I'm waiting to see ROTK before I read a word of it. Spoilers, you know!). It was only on being taken along to see the film a second time that I found my eyes and ears glued to Elijah and suddenly realised why his rather romantic name seemed so familiar: he was that superb ten-year-old actor I'd raved about after seeing Forever Young about 8 years earlier! And he was American! That clinched it: the guy was a genius as well as impossibly beautiful. A bit of Internet research told me he was also wise, charming, unassuming, articulate, musical .... Could he be real? I doubted it for a time. But I was hopelessly hooked by now - more so than by any actor or, for that matter, any other celebrity before or since.
The accent was almost universally perfect - thanks, Shireling, for pointing out that it's upper-class (but not too much so - it's an attractive version of "received pronunciation") with a hint of West Country. I hate to have to say it, Goldenberry, but I too, quite independently, later noticed exactly those two phrases, "But you've only just arrived!" and "Get off the road!", as sounding a bit too American; they still sound American every time I hear them, to the extent that I wish they had been noticed and corrected at the time. But Elijah presumably re-recorded them some time after principal photography was over, and therefore long after his original dialect coaching sessions (I wonder if the dialect coaches were still around by then?). In general, though, he did a fantastic job, and a far better one than some of his fellow actors, it has to be said. I remember writing to a British film critic soon after FOTR that EW's accent was one of the most moving aspects of his performance. I still think so - it's just gorgeous to listen to. As is his usual Californian accent, for that matter! But there's something very special about US actors who can - and take the trouble to - imitate Brits so well. This never used to happen - American actors used to be notorious for their inability to sound anything but American. Gwyneth Paltrow in Sliding Doors and Renee Zellweger in Bridget Jones were excellent too. But Elijah's voice using that accent just makes me (and a lot of other people) melt!
Oh dear, it's after midnight again ..... bye!

Serena saidBut I was hopelessly hooked by now - more so than by any actor or, for that matter, any other celebrity before or since.

Oh, yeah! What she said. But at the same time I have to say that it is a weird nexus of three, well maybe four, factors that have me so fascinated:


He's simply gorgeous, more so than any other human being I have ever seen.

He seems to be an entirely sweet and unassuming human being to top it off. No DeCaprio-esque street brawls. No drug rehab crappola. He flies low under the radar and that is a good thing.

He plays one of my two favorite literary characters of all time, (the other being Samwise, of course,) without which I doubt that I would have ever noticed him. I keep seeing all these old movies of his, and remembering that I had thought to go see it in the theater, but never did for whatever reason.

And accessibility, via the internet. I can get up in the middle of the night and feed my addiction to his lovely face. ;) I mean think about it; in this age we have access to almost all the information about our favorite star without even needing to leave home! And we can share our "affliction" with others, and spur each other on in some strange way.

Ugh, :o I think I exceeded my previous swoon record by a lot. Maybe this would have been better posted elsewhere! :)

Honey!

I curious. Did the mere SOUND of Elijah's voice in "Spy Kids 3D" make Anyone tingle? If it it did, when he played Frodo, is SURE wasn't the British Accent. :D

Why did Sean Astin refer to Elijah as a "cat?"

No wonder in the closeup of Frodo when We first see him, and I thought of the musical, "Puss in Boots." Who was the dark haired good looking man who played this role in the film version?

Originally quoted by Shireling:
By the end of his journey Frodo is hanging by a thread, his strength almost gone, his carefree spirit broken. The Frodo who returns to The Shire is humble, quiet, haunted. Of all the characters in the story, Frodo has the most profound journey...
_______________________________________________

Yes, Frodo does have the most profound journey, and already at the end of TT we have a very different Frodo compared to the happy young hobbit we saw at the beginning of Fellowship. I cannot wait to see where Elijah takes Frodo in ROTK. The thought that he may not receive the recognition he deserves for this stunning portrayal of a wonderful character makes me sad.

Originally quoted by Shireling:
I'm another Brit he had fooled - I hadn't heard of him before I saw FOTR & I was totally amazed when I discovered he's American - he sounded more English than me!! And what is even more amazing is that it isn't just an English accent - it's a mixture of a rather posh, upper-class accent because Frodo is, after all, a higher class of hobbit, with a hint of West Country similar to Sam's. To be able to get this so right and for it to appear so effortless is really amazing.
_________________________________________________

Me too, Shireling. My thoughts exactly! In response to serena thinking a couple of lines - 'But you've only just arrived,' and 'Get off the road.' sound 'American,' I must say I agree with Goldie -they both sound fine to my English ears. But I do remember that in the 'Fellowship' extended DVD Elijah remarks in the cast commentary track that he had to keep repeating the line, 'Put it out, you fools,' - when the other hobbits light the fire on Weathertop - because it kept coming out as 'too American.' I can honestly say his English accent works for me. One line from Fellowship I absolutley love - the accent, tone of his voice etc - is when Frodo is leaving Bag End and Gandelf tells him to keep off the road. Frodo turns to Gandalf and says. 'I can cut across country easily enough.' Bliss!

Originally quoted by serena:
he was that superb ten-year-old actor I'd raved about after seeing Forever Young about 8 years earlier!
_________________________________________________

I don't think I've said 'hello' to you yet, serena. So - Hello and welcome. I hadn't seen any of Elijah's work either before LOTR, but that was quickly rectified as I searched the internet and got to know a little more about him and his career. When I saw that he had been in 'Forever Young' I had a sort of 'flashback' memory surge. I suddenly remembered very clearly our ex-neighbour (male, mid-twenties at the time) going to the cinema with his girlfriend one night. The next day I asked him what film he had seen, and he replied, "'Forever Young,' Mel Gibson's new one. There was this little kid in it called Nat, and the young actor who played him - he was brilliant.' When, all those years later, I realized it was Elijah he had been talking about, I almost had a 'Twilight Zone' moment. To think that the 'little kid' my neighbour had been raving about was destined to portray my favourite literary character of all time, that both his performance of Frodo and Elijah himself would have such a profound effect on me, is amazing.:)

News Flash! Elwood gets to drop out of Harvard next!

From Comingsoon.net
Elijah Wood and Charlie Hunnam Are Hooligans
Source: The Hollywood Reporter
Wednesday, October 22, 2003

"Lord of the Rings" star Elijah Wood and Charlie Hunnam will star in Hooligans, an independent film that will start shooting in April.

The project centers on a Harvard undergraduate (Wood) who moves to London after he is wrongfully expelled from the Ivy League school. Once there, he meets up with a young man named Pete (Hunnam), who introduces him to the violent underworld of soccer hooliganism.

Director Lexi Alexander teamed with author-journalist Dougie Brimson to develop the original story for the project, and the duo then took it to writer Josh Shelov for a screenplay. After his draft, Alexander and Brimson did a rewrite.

I know nothing about any of these other folks, so I don't know whether this is good news or not. Does the fact that this is supposed to start shooting in April of next year mean that my dreams of Wood playing Einstein are for naught?

Am loving the discussions about how folks discovered EW. Am also loving the C4 and Charades reports, all of which seem to confirm my impression of Elijah Wood as a very nice guy. :)

Omigod, I've just read Marea's indescribably beautiful report, over at the Hugs Haven, about meeting Elijah. (Eternal thanks, Shireling!) If you haven't read it, read it. It should be compulsory reading for anyone with the slightest interest in EW or LOTR or in, well. humanity, for that matter. I just have to quote this:

by Marea, originally posted by Shireling at the Hugs Haven:
And the most incredible thing is (and this will sound strange and unbelievable until you see it for yourselves) is….That wherever he went, and whatever his surroundings... this guy who played our Ringbearer appeared as though through in a soft focus lens. As if he was surrounded by a faint crystalline … glow. And that does and does not describe what I saw… but to tell the truth I am at a loss for the right vocabulary. It is almost as though he carries his own, interior Galadri-lighting with him. It is a very Frodo-like quality actually... so much so that it’s eerie.I could see this most strongly during that space of time when I was two feet away from him, staring into his eyes….

So it's true. Ever since I became aware of Elijah's existence I've had this strange feeling that he is a very, very exceptional being. I've never felt that about anyone else I've met or seen on stage or screen or heard on record. Sean A. called him a thousand-year-old soul just passing through in a 22-year-old body (I quoted that in my first post here). To judge from the comments of his other fellow actors on LOTR, they felt it too: Miranda Otto said "Elijah has the innocence of a child, the wisdom of a 90-year-old man, and the grace of an angel"; Ian Holm said "Those remarkable, God-given eyes! That glorious, good-natured personality! Elijah's Frodo is a shining light in the gloom and doom of war and despair"; and Ian McKellen said Elijah looked "more sublime than human". (Hobmom quoted these and others some time back; thanks again, Hobmom! All the quotes are in Brian Sibley's book The Making of the Movie Trilogy. There are no such quotes about anyone else in the movies.) If those who know him say these things, then I don't feel alone in thinking how totally exceptional he must be. I wasn't free to take a trip to the UK and CM to see it for myself, but one day I will have to do so. And yet he is a regular, hip young guy at the same time! Hard to get my head round this. All I hope is that he isn't reading this page .....! Or maybe he knows well enough what we are talking about, but is far too modest to admit it or even think about it.
And another quote from Marea:
Lets just say it was then when I had something like a Zen moment ... You know? That higher state of consciousness you attain where for several heartbeats there is nothing but SILENCE in your head... Fan fiction writer Oselle put it well in her own account of meeting Elijah Wood… she spoke about it as this Moment of Silence. And from where I sat on the floor, I could sense the night birds cease singing and traffic all over the city slowing and stopping and planets halting in their orbits... and even the angels breaking off suddenly from rehearsing the latest song in their heavenly chorus - to Stare….
See what I mean?
And there's this:
He has a quality that I have never seen in anyone else... and I have met a number of other famous people and also many, many interesting and talented people who are NOT famous over the course of my lifetime. I don’t know what to call it. Presence. Charisma. Charm. He is all of these things… and yet there is an undefinable More to him.
and:
And as for centeredness, egotism… I’ve never heard anyone describe “our hobbit” in those terms… no person who has met him anyway… and now that I have done so myself from everything I’ve seen I would have to conclude that these concepts don’t seem to exist in Elijah’s world..
Better stop now. It puts all I wanted to report about Picasso at the Lapin Agile and the Domlijah myth in the shade. That will come later, when I've come back down to earth from reading Marea's report.

Those two reports and others I've read from C4 and the Celeb Charades really show how unique our Elijah is. And what makes him so special is his total humility. He never acts like a 'star'. I don't believe he thinks of himself that way at all, always referring to himself as being 'just like everyone else'. I hope he can maintain that wonderful outlook. I think he will.

I looked up some info on IMDB about 'Hooligans'. No report on the movie yet. But the other actor,Charlie Hunnam, is very interesting. He is in the new movie 'Cold Mountain' in a supporting role, has had a lead role in "Queer as Folk"(though he isn't ;) ), and a long acting career as another child actor, like Elijah.

The director has done one or two small but important indie films that I've never heard of but which got good reviews. The writers are new but interesting.

Sounds like just the type of thing Elijah has been wanting to do and maybe he'll get to be a bit grittier in this role. And I notice his seems to be the lead role.:D

shadowcatshadow, please check your PMs. (http://www.khazaddum.com/forums/private.php?s=) Thanks.:)

I do like a research challenge! :D

I found this little bit of information on ‘scriptsales.com’:

Title: Hooligans
Log Line: A wrongfully expelled Harvard undergrad moves to London and makes friends with a man who introduces him to the violent underworld of football hooliganism.
Writer: Dougie Brimson, Josh Shelov and Lexi Alexander
Agent: n/a
Buyer: Odd Lot Entertainment
Price: n/a
Genre: Drama
Logged: 10/20/03
More: Spec script. Based on the work of British novelist and journalist Dougie Brimson. Odd Lot's Gigi Pritzker, Deborah Del Prete and Patrick Aluise will produce. Lexi Alexander will direct.

It looks like this could be quite a heavy little number, given the very violent reputation of English soccer hooligans, and their association with the National Front.

I went to look at Odd Lot’s web site, but at the moment it seems to consist of a nice picture of a tree, although there might be member access.

I then went to Dougie Brimson’s site, and found this little description of him:

Having written and had published 10 books in under 7 years, Dougie Brimson has established himself as one of Britain's most prolific authors.

Once described by The Times as 'football aggro's pornographer in chief' and The Independent as 'the yob laureate' the success of the former serviceman's numerous non-fiction books have established him as possibly the leading commentator on the culture of football and have also earned him a growing reputation as a fierce campaigner for fans rights and against both violence and racism at football.

More recently, the success of his fictional writing -in particular the Lynda La Plante inspired thrillers The Crew and Top Dog plus the comedy novel Billy's Log- has attracted a whole new audience to his work which has become obligatory reading for anyone with an interest in the male culture. As a result, his books sell around the world and in a variety of languages.

I’ll keep looking, and see if I can find anything else.!


Oh, and a belated hello and welcome to Honeyelf - I enjoyed reading your essay very much! :)

All these posts and the last remark got me thinking. HoneyElf, in your essay, you mentioned how you asked your husband if Elijah wasn't "too pretty" and he didn't seem to know what you meant. Could you elaborate on that? (It's okay not to, if you think I'm too nosy.) :p

It's just that -- to me, Elijah is ... beautiful. Elflike. Sort of half a click beyond how the normal human face is shaped. I wonder if that's just a female reaction, or if men notice it, too, or if some men do and some don't. I'm just curious about the other gender's reaction, I guess! :)

originally posted by Mariole:
to me, Elijah is ... beautiful. Elflike. Sort of half a click beyond how the normal human face is shaped. I wonder if that's just a female reaction, or if men notice it, too, or if some men do and some don't
One male critic wrote after FOTR that all Frolijah needed was a bit more makeup and he'd be Winona Ryder. I don't happen to agree. But another male critic - the brilliant Nigel Andrews in
The Financial Times - wrote this: "As for Frodo-playing Elijah Wood, he has grown from a child star (North, Avalon) into a youth with the features of a William Blake angel. I kept doing double-takes. This firm-browed, almond-eyed lad with the strong cheekbones and slim, symmetried descent of nose and mouth surely has escaped from a Blake painting?" The whole review is a hoot and well worth reading at uk.geocities.com/compleatsb2/lotr-review-32.html (http://)

Oddly enough, the men I've spoken to seem to appreciate EW more than the women (maybe that speaks volumes about my female acquaintances - some of whom are George Clooney fans, it has to be said, so there you go). One gay male friend finds EW in real life more attractive than Frolijah. But the usual male reaction seems to be studied appreciation of his acting. Some women seem to think EW was not gritty enough as Frodo. Again, I don't agree, but I do regret that he was made to drop his sword at Weathertop and be rescued by Arwen instead of doing his own thing as in the book, and I so hope that he will be allowed to be gritty in ROTK. But my most glamorous female colleague called EW "far, far more beautiful than your standard Hollywood hunk", by which she meant any other actor she had seen, past or present. It's gratifying that she, with a reputation as a connoisseur of men, was the one to react like that!

Hello Hobmom, and sorry it's taken me so long to reply to your, er, Shakespearian question (see reasons below). Did you say Shakespearian, as in Ian McKellen, Kenneth Branagh or Helen Mirren? Um, I don't think so! But wait - we all know Sir Ian has a soft spot for our Lij. Maybe he posts here! OK, own up - which of you is Sir Ian in disguise??

Hello to you, Blossom - and a belated thankyou for all those wonderful screencaps and general art treasures! Amazing about your neighbour and Forever Young - Elijah was so utterly believable, not to mention charming, in that film that it's one of my great favourites. Mel Gibson was adorable in that one too, and extremely complimentary about the young Elijah ("Elijah seems to have knowledge beyond his years for executing his job. He is professional and extremely talented ...").
It's also fun to know that you and Shireling both live in the UK and, I get the impression, not a million miles from where I used to live ...
Shireling, I've just remembered about your quoting EW's remarks at CM about, er, female nocturnal emissions. Having just finished a series of performances of the V-word Monologues (I think the real title is a misnomer - it should be The Vulva Monologues!) in addition to my day job - which is why I was silent for a week or so - I can say that yes, such things do exist, and one of said monologues addresses that very phenomenon (though not nocturnal in this case!). It's a very sad and funny little piece, and beautifully acted by the lady who did it.

And Whiteling, it isn't exactly southern Germany or even Austria, but I hope I still qualify for the CET! Talking of Germany, I could see EW as Oskar Matzerath in a film version of the last part of
The Tin Drum. Volker Schlöndorff's 1970s film ended where Oskar starts to grow. He grows, if I remember rightly, into a hunchback with a beautiful face and eyes. OK, OK, but if EW is eligible for Aleister Crowley, Norman Bates, Grenouille, Lord Byron, and, last but not least, a soccer hooligan, a hunchback would be child's play! I can't wait to see him play the hooligan, btw: sounds like exactly the change of image he has been waiting for.
so originally posted by peaceweaver:
Does the fact that this is supposed to start shooting in April of next year mean that my dreams of Wood playing Einstein are for naught?
Elwood has been making two or more films a year since he was eight, so I hope he can fit in both!
On balance I think he might fit the Einstein role better than the Picasso one. Picasso was an artist and a genius, yes, but he was also physically tough and rangy and mentally extremely macho, which is about as far from EW as you can get. Einstein in the play is young, brilliant and witty and has a glamorous and intellectual Countess as a girlfriend. Did he resemble EW as a young man? I have a great pic of Einstein (.jpg) aged about 32 in which the hair (no, not a mohawk) and the chin cleft are most Elwoodian, but I can't figure out how to post it! Would someone please tell me? Thanks!!

Edit after seeing Serena's simulpost: "Elwoodian"! Wonderful new word--at least I haven't seen it before :) . I agree with your assessment of Picasso vs. Einstein as a role for Elijah. Einstein was quite a romantic throughout his life (as many scientists who deal with the "unseen" seem to be). And, yes, I'd hope EW could do both movies--Any news on the shooting schedule for either one (besides IMDb :rolleyes: saying the Einstein one is already in "post-production")?

P.S. To post a picture so it shows up directly in the thread, it has to be on a website of some kind, so it can be linked to through the URL. But if the picture's on your hard drive, you can make it an attachment--at the bottom of the screen where you enter a post, click, "add attachment" and then browse to the picture on your computer. That will put a little icon in the post that people would have to click on to see the picture, but I think most people will be willing to do that little bit of work to see it :p .

Written in bits and pieces from the office:

IMVHO, recognizing Elijah's beauty (on whatever level) can't be completely gender-related, judging by the comments from Sean A. and the two Sir Ians--all males, but otherwise quite different from each other. One thing they all had in common, though, was getting to know Elijah very well. (I know Sean and Elijah hugged on first sight--I don't know what immediate responses the others had.) I'm also guessing that--hard as it is to believe--there are females who don't recognize it :eek: . Not a very high percentage of them are likely to post in this thread... ;)

Also IMVHO, this is directly connected to the entire Frolijah phenomenon. If Frodo becomes a clear glass filled with light "for eyes to see that can," that implies that some eyes can't. In the book, the only characters we know of who see that light are Gandalf and Sam, although there could be others who aren't mentioned. From the many--and sometimes heated--debates that have been held online about Frodo, there also seems to be that division among LotR readers. Some "see" that light, and others don't. Also not completely gender-related: the reader who wrote Tolkien saying that Frodo should have been hung as a traitor was a woman. Somewhat later edit: I hope that's a "teaser" rather than a "spoiler" for those who haven't read RotK. ;)

I don't mean this at all as a "my favorite character is better than yours" argument--I freely admit that there are readers who see a light in Aragorn, or Legolas, or Sam, that I don't see. Part of Tolkien's genius was that he could see and understand the inner lives of characters who are so different from each other.

Anyway, regarding those who do see it in Frodo--what happens when Elijah comes along? An actor with that inner light playing a character we've always seen that way (or, possibly, the other way around for those who saw the movie[s] before reading the book). IMHO, we know intuitively that it's something that can't be acted--whatever it is--and we sense that as the deep bonding between actor and character that we call Frolijah.

Elijah was given the role because PJ saw "magic" in his Frodo--something he hadn't seen in the hundreds (IIRC--a lot, anyway) of people who'd auditioned. PJ said they knew all along that they had to find someone with that "magic" to play Frodo. IMHO what PJ called magic was that "light for eyes to see that can." He knew it in Frodo and he recognized it in Elijah. (Another man, BTW, although Fran pushed him a bit to watch the video.)

I don't know where I'm going with this... There isn't really any conclusion, because I see it as involving things that are beyond explanation. But I thank God for it--literally. I'm still a true believer in the statement many people made after seeing FotR (a lot of them in an earlier incarnation of this thread :) ), that even though Elijah's acting has been wonderful since childhood and I wish him a long and fulfilling career, he was born to play Frodo.

Serena- Well I THOUGHT Sir Ian might be posting here but I MAY have been wrong.:rolleyes: ;) Though I continue to hold out hope that he as well as Elijah and the others peek in here once in awhile to see what some of their more mature:rolleyes: and eloquent;) fans have to say.

I find the Faculty quite refreshing in comparison to the silliness of the basic fan sites.

Not that I have eschewed squeeishness I simply post that in Hugs.:D

The Faculty is quite educational, as well. It just caused me to check the spelling of 'eschewed' and lo and behold I actually had it right, for once!

I found a picture of Albert Einstein from 1921.
http://www.humboldt1.com/~gralsto/einstein/pictures/newyork.jpg

Now, of course, Elijah is much better looking, but I really can see him playing Einstein at that age. I hope he can fit 'Lapine Agile' into his busy schedule.

They both have that "hair" thing going ... :p

They both have that "hair" thing going

That's exactly what I thought!

Mariole Said:
HoneyElf, in your essay, you mentioned how you asked your husband if Elijah wasn't "too pretty" and he didn't seem to know what you meant. Could you elaborate on that? (It's okay not to, if you think I'm too nosy.)

I would be more than happy to elaborate on that! :D

When I saw the FoTR the first couple of times I was totally incredulous at that actor playing Frodo. I thought they had done alot of special effects on him. I mean the eyes, and that throat specifically. I just didn't/couldn't believe he was for real.

Then too, though I'd never read the books, I had a particular attachment to Pippin at the time, because had my daughter been in fact a boy "he" would actually have been named Peregrin! So I thought Mr. Boyd was pretty charming and just kind of turned off all my Frodo-receptors or whatever you wanna call it.

Anyhow, by the third time I saw the movie I learned that, no, infact there were no special effects employed to make Frolijah look like that, other than the pointy ears, wig and all.

Somehow by then, the whole "Pip" thing had worn off, too. And so I really paid attention to Elijah. I couldn't figure one thing out though: Why were all the other hobbit actors, while attractive, so far out-classed looks wise by this one who didn't seem to "match" the rest? That was where the "too pretty" bit comes in.

I read the books as soon as Amazon could get 'em to me after seeing TTT. I now understood why Frolijah needed to have that particular elven quality that Mariole referred to. And EJW is very "elven" isn't he?

So long story short, I ended up becoming completely smitten with both Frodo and Elijah. I think Elijah is quite possibly the most beautiful creature I have ever seen. That he can REALLY act to top it all off, and make me believe and "hear" those inner Frodo moments blows me away.

I am also completely fascinated that faces like his seem to have inspired artists through the ages. The Elijah/Michelangelo's David comparison has been made over and over. I just have to wonder how many generations of earth's existence have been graced with such beauty, and were the owners of said faces all as sweet, full of grace, and unassuming as "our" dear Elijah?

As for whether my husband can see how "pretty" he is, (that seems such an innadequate word in retrospect) he says he knows that people would think Elijah attractive, but I don't think it affects him one way or the other. And yes, he knows about my fixations with Sam, Frodo and Elijah, and is entirely patient with it now. (He's had his moments:D)

Thanks for the opportunity to swoon! I could go on for entirely too long about this particular subject!

Honey!

I'm still trying to picture Elwood as a soccer hooligan. I really hope that one will actually be filmed - it sounds like such a departure from his other roles. It should be a fun challenge for him, and interesting for his fans. I remember Charlie Hunnam from "Queer as folk" too, as far as I can recall he did a good job there. (And he's not afraid to take on controversial roles, either, seemingly).

But I'm afraid the soccer hooligan thing may signal the end of the fauxhawk era and the return to that nearly bald head........
From Mariole
I wonder if that's just a female reaction, or if men notice it, too, or if some men do and some don't. I did a quick inventory of people I've heard comment specifically on Frolijah's looks (outside of the LotR fans and haremites I've met ;) ). One woman friend, who thinks he looks far too child-like. And two guys, who think he is extremely good-looking, even beautiful. Both of them are gay, though, which I guess means they may perhaps feel more free to comment on male beauty than some of the straight guys out there. I don't know.

Maeglian said:
But I'm afraid the soccer hooligan thing may signal the end of the fauxhawk era and the return to that nearly bald head........

Oh. I was imaging the casting for this movie was the reason that the fauxhawk appeared right before Collectormania. Hmmm.

BTW, I love the coining of the word "Elwoodian!" :D

Wow, thanks to everyone who answered my gender-perception of beauty question -- and thanks for the elaboration, HoneyElf! I get all warm and fuzzy at the notion that I'm one of those "with eyes to see that can." Vain? Who cares! :p As for EW being "too child-like," well, that thing will correct itself over time. It's not the worst rejection a body can get! :D

Serena, I really enjoyed that article link you posted, as well as your info about the V-word Monologues. I'd heard that was a good production, but never saw it.

estella rose, thanks for the Hooligans research! Maeglian, I really hope you're wrong about the return to the shaved head. :eek: I went to high school in the 70s -- the era of long hair and shag hair cuts. I still think those look great on men. Bald is bad. Just my personal taste.

But regardless of whether EW sticks his head in a razor factory or not, I'm very glad that he's playing an older role. A Harvard undergrad is NOT a teen! YEA!!! :D :) I personally don't like movies where the hero is an anti-hero. I appreciate EW wanting to change his image and branch out into different roles, but I do prefer going on adventures with people who are trying to do the right thing. Exploration of the seemy underside of life or how tacky people can be is BOOORRring to me. Far more interesting to me is someone who tries to achieve regardless of the obstacles. Even if they fail, they at least attempted something worth attempting.

One of my favorite movies is Lawrence of Arabia, and not just because Omar Sharif is so absolutely savory I could die everytime I see him, although that is certainly true. Lawrence's descent into virtual madness is heart-rending because he started with such a worthy goal. It wasn't really his fault he was manipulated into something else -- and that is what makes the movie so tragic. If he'd started out just greedy for his own glory, well, boooooorrrring! (Just my 2 cents...)

I was glad to read that the writer of Hooligans is known to be against fan violence. Makes me hopeful that, at the very least, the movie won't be promoting violence, like so many do. I just don't want it to be despairing at the end, like B&W: here's this seamy underside of life, and it can never be changed because that's just how human nature is :mad: . If the writer is really a crusader for change, I'm hoping he'll show the possibility of it, even if things aren't all rosy at the end of the movie.

In using an outsider as a lead character, it sounds as if one thing the moviemakers want to do is let people who don't know much about "hooligans" (like me :o , and probably most Americans) see what that world is all about by letting a naive newcomer get sucked into it.

I said awhile back that I wouldn't mind seeing Elijah play a villain occasionally, but that I hope he keeps choosing roles where the movie itself has a positive slant--or at least a glimmer of hope. So I'm keeping my fingers crossed on this one.

TG said:

In using an outsider as a lead character, it sounds as if one thing the moviemakers want to do is let people who don't know much about "hooligans" (like me , and probably most Americans) see what that world is all about by letting a naive newcomer get sucked into it.

But I hope he doesn't get type-cast as "the naive new-comer." 'Cause I don't think even that beautiful face could keep me interested if I saw him in the same type of role over and over.

If there is one thing Hollywood does that drives me mad, it's restricting stars to "expected" roles. This whole issue with "Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind," and Jim Carrey is a case in point. I can't go to one more Sean Connery movie, because I am sick of seeing him play the same character. Same with Meg Ryan. For a while there I was fed up with Robin Williams, but then they let him play against type in "One Hour Photo," and i really enjoyed that.

TG, I just wanted to say that I only recently discovered your web-site, and I'm enjoying it very much! May the hair on your toes never fall out! :D

Honey!

Thanks to Tg and Mariole for their answers to my naïve question. I had already tried the "attach file" option when trying to attach the Young Einstein pic, but no little icon appeared (I guess it should appear in the preview, but so far I can't get it to appear either there or in the post itself. We'll see what happens this time; if no go, I'll try my other PC later). But thanks, Hobmom, for the 1921 pic! Al looks a little more worn on that one - after all, he must have been 41-ish by then. But at 25 he was not totally unlike a certain actor we know with a lot of dark wavy hair (well, potentially, anyway) and a cleft chin.
Seems my html skills leave a lot to be desired all round: here's a link to the Financial Times FOTR review that should work this time (thanks for persevering with the non-link, Mariole!):
uk.geocities.com/compleatsb2/lotr-review-32.html (http://uk.geocities.com/compleatsb2/lotr-review-32.html)
Honeyelf wrote:
I think Elijah is quite possibly the most beautiful creature I have ever seen.
What she said!!! Exactly my thoughts since about December 2001. And it was the famous Sir Ian (again) who originally thought EW "too beautiful" to play Frodo, who, he thought, represented Everyman and so should be played by someone more ordinary-looking. He later became a total convert, as we know. So the precise nature of book-Frodo - ordinary Everyman or ethereal elf-like beauty and grace? - is something I'm dying to find out! Meanwhile I have to confess to an initial experience startlingly like Nigel Andrews's (FT, above).
Talking of disguising one's beauty (yet again), I'm sure many people have noticed how Elwood when photographed often grimaces (well, contorts his lovely face into a wide, tight-lipped, apologetic grin) instead of smiling normally at the camera, and ending up looking geeky instead of gorgeous. Yet when he poses for publicity shots (thanks, Hobmom!) he looks as coolly accomplished and sexy as any male model. It's almost hard to believe it's the same guy. Exuding that amount of beauty can't be an easy thing to live with; maybe publicity shots are easier because they are one step removed from reality.
Last thing: those "with eyes to see that can": I almost got the impression that Marea was talking about an actual visible aura around Elijah (but I hesitated to say this outright). Was Tolkien talking about the same phenomenon, or is the light purely figurative and inward? Just wondered.

I really hope you're wrong about the return to the shaved head. Well, I hope I'm wrong too, but "English soccer hooligan" pretty much equals "skinhead" in my mind. And tattoos. The soccer hooligans are fond of visible and provocative tattoos. Perhaps Elijah'll get another one. :D

Exploration of the seemy underside of life or how tacky people can be is BOOORRring to me. Far more interesting to me is someone who tries to achieve regardless of the obstacles. Another interesting possibility (to me) is a character who does soemething wrong, immoral or evil, and then comes to recognize the errors of his way, and tries to atone and make amends, while meeting lots of adversity in the process. (The last is thrown in there to up the angst quota. :rolleyes: ) Maybe that's the way this soccer hooligan thing will take. I'd like that.


I must admit that I don't know the first thing about Lawrence of Arabia, haven't read about him in history, never saw the film, nothing. But his name keeps popping up among the EJW-afficionados, so maybe, one day, if I *ever* find the time........


Thank you for the link to the review, Serena. That was a very fun and good read, and a great reminder of how fabulous "Fellowship" was and remains. Now I must go search the net to find a William Blake angel. Research and comparison urgently required. :)

Isn't it so cool that along with Elijah's physical beauty, we all really know what sets it off is some inner light? And that those who see him can attest that is isn't just wishful thinking?. :)

Physical attractiveness isn't enough--its got to be lit up some way from inside, or it's all flat to me. It could just be a way of talking, a spark of humor or gesture that animates a frame. But when that frame is lit up with grace and kindness and some sort of flame that is about spirit...that takes you to the top.

I honestly thought the whole world would be floored, like I was, after seeing Frodo Baggins in The Fellowship. I thought they would be gasping in awe. And of course, some were. Those who can see the light I guess. But I was rather stunned if Frodo/Elijah wasn't the first thing that popped out of people's mouths after seeing the movie. Thank goodness for those like-minded souls, though. A good friend stared me in the eye and said "Frodo is magical!!" And she is way cool so she counts as 10 on our side. I thought everyone would see it too, but alas....(and I do agree with TG--I can't blame anyone for being drawn to other characters in this story, as they are quite an exceptional bunch--It's just that I thought Frodo would easily hook the vast majority!!)

But I have a theory about the gender thing. I swear a lot of straight men are a little afraid of "pretty" men. I can just predict when I am going to hear "Well, Frodo was a little too pretty for my tastes." Okay, perhaps I should take them at their word--but I often think something else is going on. I think a lot of straight men don't want to look too closely at beautiful men. Men are so visual and you know, they react before they think. I think there is a little not getting too close on purpose going on with some guys....Frolijah is maybe just a little too attractive for them to want to look at too closely!!!

Women? Different women, different tastes, and different styles in different eras. Just like I think Frodo was a more understood character in the 1960's--so was that pretty look--Donovan, Paul McCartney---the look of love.... I figure this movie will be watched for decades and the relative popularity of this character or that will fluctuate according to the times.

Serena!! Thank you for all the lovely extracts you posted of Marea's encounter. I had planned on doing some of that myself but I am quite ackward with my computer commands. So I was so glad to see them show up in The Faculty. Also, I was excited to hear you were in the V-monologues--I show I meant to see last year and never did. You mentioned another show, previously. Do you do a lot of acting??

HoneyElf said:
Oh. I was imaging the casting for this movie was the reason that the fauxhawk appeared right before Collectormania. Hmmm

Could be right.....

Physical attractiveness isn't enough--its got to be lit up some way from inside, or it's all flat to me. It could just be a way of talking, a spark of humor or gesture that animates a frame. But when that frame is lit up with grace and kindness and some sort of flame that is about spirit...that takes you to the top.

I honestly thought the whole world would be floored, like I was, after seeing Frodo Baggins in The Fellowship. I thought they would be gasping in awe. And of course, some were. Those who can see the light I guess. But I was rather stunned if Frodo/Elijah wasn't the first thing that popped out of people's mouths after seeing the movie. Thank goodness for those like-minded souls, though.


That is all so true Alyon - although I have strived, without success, for nearly two years to find the exact words to describe what is so special about Elijah, I think the 'lit up' quality is probably the closest we can get. As Peter Jackson said, "you look into Elijah's eyes and you see right down to his heart". What is in his heart must be very beautiful. There are many good looking people around but I've never seen anyone with this unique 'thing' - whatever it may be. And certainly no-one has ever affected me in this way. And I also failed to understand how anyone could come out of that movie without raving ecstatically over Frodo/Elijah.

It's just that -- to me, Elijah is ... beautiful. Elflike. Sort of half a click beyond how the normal human face is shaped

It's been said before, but he has an other-worldliness to him, just perfect for Frodo.
I love how in the movie, most of the time we forget, but then suddenly we'll get a glimpse of a pointed ear, or a large, furry foot or their smallness compared to men, and we're reminded that the hobbits are not entirely human .....

http://www.ezshots.com/members/shireling/images/shireling-31.jpg

TG - I echo your sentiments about appreciating Elijah's other work and hoping he'll have a varied & rewarding career in the future - but also knowing with 100% certainty that he was born to be Frodo. I just know fate played a part in this - its why his mother set him on this path all those years ago, albeit unknowingly. She said she wanted an outlet for his energy - so why didn't she get him into some sort of sport? No, there were other powers at work there.

Originally posted by Maeglian
Well, I hope I'm wrong too, but "English soccer hooligan" pretty much equals "skinhead" in my mind. And tattoos. The soccer hooligans are fond of visible and provocative tattoos. Perhaps Elijah'll get another one. :D

I was delighted to read this bit of casting news, but then had a sort of 'eh?" moment: I'd always imagined soccer hooligans from England to be very big guys and well, EW ain't a big guy now, is he. But then again, compared to an average Asian guy, any average sized English guy would be a very big guy, so okay, I've realligned my imagination here. :D :D

Another interesting possibility (to me) is a character who does soemething wrong, immoral or evil, and then comes to recognize the errors of his way, and tries to atone and make amends, while meeting lots of adversity in the process. (The last is thrown in there to up the angst quota. :rolleyes: ) Maybe that's the way this soccer hooligan thing will take. I'd like that.

Oh yes! Especially when the angst quota has been rightfully amped up. ;) A couple of my favourite movies fit your description right there (minus the soccer ref, that is).

Been busy with a workshop course thingy through the week. Quite breathless with the catching up. ;) Thanks to everyone for all the info and the news and the research and the thoughts and the appreciations and the images. :k

RotK publicity blitz must be raring to go into full swing any minute now! Elvellon will help us keep up to date there. :)

http://www.frodoandsam.net/multimedia/2003.html

((((Faculty))))))

Originally posted by Alyon
I honestly thought the whole world would be floored, like I was, after seeing Frodo Baggins in The Fellowship. I thought they would be gasping in awe. And of course, some were. Those who can see the light I guess. But I was rather stunned if Frodo/Elijah wasn't the first thing that popped out of people's mouths after seeing the movie.

This comment made me think of something that happened to me about a week after I saw Fellowship for the first time. I had met a friend for drinks, and we started talking about what we had done over the holidays. I was desperate to talk to someone---anyone---about the movie, and so I said that I'd seen Fellowship over New Year's.

My friend exclaimed, "What about that Elijah Wood!"

I seized on this. "I know!" I said. "I know!"

I took a deep breath and prepared myself to plunge into a lengthy exploration of how astounding Elijah's Frodo had been, how beautiful, how compelling, how perfect...when she responded, "That kid has no neck!" and moved on to another topic.

That kid. Has no neck.

Pardon?

I sometimes don't think this is a question of taste, because I just don't understand how anyone can look at Elijah, especially Elijah's Frodo, and not see something there, even if they don't get swept off their feet. I sometimes think he's so extraordinary that people react to him as they would if they suddenly saw a unicorn walking down the street. It would be a sight so mind-boggling that they might just say, "Whoa! Weird horse!" and then move on to something else, something easier to understand. Maybe that's it.

Elda- Some people wouldn't recognize a unicorn if they fell over one.

"Whoa! Weird horse!" and then move on to something else, something easier to understand."

I feel sorry for them. Look for long essay about something along these lines in my LJ when I get it pulled together.

Wonderful posts over the past few days ladies.

The Hooligan film does worry me a little, for the same reasons Mariole stated. Being English, I have seen enough in news reports etc of these 'bully boys' masquerading as football fans to last me a lifetime. They use the sport as an excuse for their loutish, racist and violent behaviour. I'm honestly not sure if I will even want to see this film. However, as Tg said, the writer is apparently known as a crusader for change, so hopefully there may be a positive side to this tale. I do applaud Elijah for taking risks, and for choosing diverse roles in smaller films, even if they sometimes don't even make it into cinemas and a wider audience. I realize I might not like or enjoy the subject matter of every film he chooses to do, but I see him as a very versatile actor, and hope he conitnues to push his talent to the limit.

Hi Shireling. I just adore that pic you posted. It's from the bedroom in Bree, isn't it? I never thought I'd look at a still from a film and know exactly which scene it was from and the exact dialogue that preceeded or followed it! I must be obsessed!:rolleyes: :) Btw, I pm'd you, but you haven't read it yet.

serena - you have me guessing now. You used to live in England, possibly not far from Shireling and myself? Did you live in the Midlands?

Regarding Elijah being beautiful. He just is.:)



ROTK SPOILER PICS IN LINKS BELOW!!!


I just saw these at TORn:

Frodo and Sam in orc armour: (http://www.theonering.net/scrapbook/group/1058/view/9213)

Frodo and Sam: (http://www.theonering.net/scrapbook/group/1058/view/9214)

Isn't it December yet?


END OF ROTK SPOILERS

That's all. Bye.

Hi Shireling. I just adore that pic you posted. It's from the bedroom in Bree, isn't it? I never thought I'd look at a still from a film and know exactly which scene it was from and the exact dialogue that preceeded or followed it! I must be obsessed! Btw, I pm'd you, but you haven't read it yet.

Hi Blossom. Yes, you're right, that pic is from the bedroom in Bree. I find it quite hypnotic - I feel that if I stared at it for long enough I'd go into some sort of trance:)

Have just replied to your pm:k

Regarding Elijah being beautiful. He just is.

That's it in a nutshell, really:)

Those ROTK pics from TORN:eek: It's no good - I'll need to be heavily sedated before I see that film.

There've been several links posted in the RotK spoilers thread to scans from the Dutch version of the official movie guide (including the ones Blossom just linked to). I've posted all the available Frodo&Sam ones at ye olde crebain site. Since they are scans, there are a couple where the book binding interferes a bit with the picture. Massive spoilers included here, natch:

http://home.earthlink.net/~screencaps/id22.html

I'd planned to post all the hobbit-related ones, but I'd forgotten how l-o-o-n-g that freebie website takes to upload pics. (Expect fairly long downloads, too, as I haven't reduced the size of the pics from the originals.) There are a fair number of Merry and (especially) Pippin scans available, too, as well as Faramir, Theoden, Gandalf, and lots of Aragorn.

tg, thanks for the link. It's wonderful to be overwhelmed with FIE (Frodo in Excess). :k (And what’s this I hear about a “fair number of Merry”?)

Shireling-thanks so much for the Frodo casting description and the sequence of events leading to Elijah being cast.

Regarding typecasting---It bothered me that several The Good Son reviewers harped that Macauley Culkin (just forgive if it’s misspelled, ok?) was miscast because he had been so famous as the cute boy in Home Alone. I actually liked Good Son. Sure, there were some annoying inconsistencies but I thought both Elijah and Macauley gave good portrayals of their characters. That complaint about “miscasting” seemed the primary (and only) conclusion of the reviews I saw. Few even discussed Elijah's acting once they wrote their "miscasting" conclusion.


From Alyon:
“But I have a theory about the gender thing. I swear a lot of straight men are a little afraid of "pretty" men. I can just predict when I am going to hear "Well, Frodo was a little too pretty for my tastes." Okay, perhaps I should take them at their word--but I often think something else is going on. I think a lot of straight men don't want to look too closely at beautiful men. Men are so visual and you know, they react before they think. I think there is a little not getting too close on purpose going on with some guys....Frolijah is maybe just a little too attractive for them to want to look at too closely!!!”

edited for clarity--
I think you’re right. In Western culture, straight women are allowed to appreciate and even be aroused by the sight of a beautiful woman. On the other hand, straight men do not have that permission, in Western culture at least, when viewing a beautiful male.



From Eldalieva: “I sometimes think he's so extraordinary that people react to him as they would if they suddenly saw a unicorn walking down the street. It would be a sight so mind-boggling that they might just say, "Whoa! Weird horse!" and then move on to something else, something easier to understand. Maybe that's it.”

That makes perfect sense to me. When something is obviously sublime but also unusual, “weird” is often the conclusion.


I feel humbly joyful that we have been given the ability to appreciate both Frodo and Elwood’s special light. (((Faculty)))
((tg for the photo links))

Does a Fish Face come to mind? :confused: I mean that picture where's hejust looking, and has a blue cast to it, reminded me of "Allegory in Water." A face made by aligning fishes a certain way. shocking, ethereal, and down right gorgeous. ;)

Also, about the Unicorn idea. Elijah Wood is a different kind of alpha Male. it is called being Cerebral. This means it isn't obvious, but when you notice it, it draws You in to the Man. :D

Hi Mariole and Alyon. Funny thing: when we began the VMonologues production months ago, I could see no link whatsoever between it and this thread - but here we are discussing it, thanks to Sean and Elijah's remarks at CM! It's yet one more example of the Fundamental Interconnectedness of All Things (is that a quote from Douglas Hofstadter [of Goedel, Escher, Bach fame]? I think so but I'm not sure). The VM are well worth seeing, if you haven't already; harrowing in places, funny in others, very moving throughout, and about the core issues of being human, whatever gender you are. There were quite a few men in the audiences (wonder if EW has seen a production?). Alyon, do you act too? I've spent a lot of my life singing, and the acting thing is a recent but growing addition (or should I say addiction?). We did an Alan Ayckbourn play earlier this year (next thing we know, Elwood will be appearing in his new one on the West End stage .... I hope !! Well, if Nicole Kidman can do it ... not Ayckbourn, but she was on the London stage not so long ago).

Hi Maeglian - any luck finding William Blake angels? I found next to nothing when I looked. Maybe we should email Nigel A. to ask which one(s) he had in mind!

Blossom, you're dead right - Midlands it was. Thought I saw some mention of Derbyshire a while back .... I almost lived there once ....

From LetYourLoveShin:
OMG ELIJAH MIGHT BE DOING PICASSO AT THE LAPIN AGILE THAT'S THE PLAY WE'RE DOING AND I'MPLAYING SUZANNE THAT IS SO UNBELIEVABLLY ABSOLUTELY FREAKY AND WOULD BE SO FREAKIN' AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Right on! Lucky you - Suzanne is a great role. Maybe Elijah will come to see your production for research purposes ;) (I've just realised Ryan Philippe - down to play Picasso - was that manipulative young Scot in Gosford Park. And Hayden Christensen must be Freddy the barman in Picasso, by process of elimination. More and more interesting!)
Most of the information on the Net about this film seems way out of date. Most sites that mention it name only about three actors - there's a cast of 11. Not even Steve Martin's site has any information. My theory is that Elijah has been cast only recently. Apparently Tobey Maguire was approached first, and Elijah second (IMHO EW will make a far better Einstein than Tobey would have). Shooting to start in 2004? Interesting hair logistics for Elwood: unruly mop for Einstein (yay!), who knows what for the Harvard reject, and skinhead shave for the novice Hooligan? Will they have to schedule it all to fit the rate of growth of his hair??
On the Hooligans question: I don't know about the book, but it seems very unlikely anyone would want to write a book/make a movie about soccer hooligans that didn't have a moral to it, or at least a positive ending. Soccer hooliganism is something most people hate being reminded of, so any film that appeared to vindicate it would be a certain loser. Maybe the EW character helps turn his fellow hooligans back into human beings? Just guessing.

Final thing: I was amazed to find this on Ian McKellen's site:
From S*****: Q: I hate to bother you about this, but it seems half the net is in an uproar about one of the statements you make in the DVD commentary. It's the comment you make about Sam holding Frodo's hand in Rivendell, and how you talked Sean into doing that. I interpreted the statement, and the "resolutely heterosexual" part of it to mean that you were actually praising Sean (and Elijah?) for being true to the books, and the Sam/Frodo relationship, and the physical contact of it, rather than being "uber straight" and worried about how gay people might interpret actions. Other people are interpreting the statement to mean that Sean and Elijah are "two resolutely heterosexual actors" that you had to badger into touching each other.
A. from Sir Ian: I kept well away from trying to direct any part of Lord of the Rings apart from my own. Obviously I was interested in the expression of the loving interdependence between Frodo and Sam but Elijah and Sean filmed away from the studio. Their friendship as actors and perhaps as Americans must have informed the hobbit couple. I can't wait to see more of them in The Return of The King.
I read internet speculation about Elijah's sexuality. So perhaps I was just trying to put thing straight by saying he was heterosexual, resolutely too. And Sean too.

So there we have it. About a year ago I had some correspondence with an intelligent person who, for reasons I can't fathom, seemed to take S*****'s line (i.e. believed in the Domlijah myth). I argued that Sir Ian couldn't have failed to notice over those 15 months or so in NZ, or since, if Dom and Lij had been a couple, and would never make a statement such as the one in the DVD commentary unless he had good reason for doing so - e.g. to help dispel rumours he knew to be untrue. The "evidence" for the myth seems (or seemed) to consist of cutting everyone except Dom and Lij off pics to make it look like an assignation between the two of them, arguing that "PR people" had forced EW to pose with Franka and therefore pics of them together were proof that he was gay (!) :rolleyes: and that - get this! - "PR people" had changed the gender in interviews where EW talked about his then girlfriend. Um, I don't think so. For a start, if EW were gay, there is absolutely no way he would allow "PR people" to lie on his behalf; he is the sort of alarmingly honest guy who would speak the truth.
Sorry to raise that subject again, but it's been on my mind for far too long, and Ian - bless him - has just confirmed what I'd been thinking ((((Sir Ian))))

From serena regarding the VMonologues:

There were quite a few men in the audiences (wonder if EW has seen a production?).

Unless my memory is totally and completely gone, there was a story about a New Zealand actress that EW was hanging around with, whom he had seen perform in a production of the VMs. So I think the answer to that little query is yes. :) (Course I can't remember her name or anything :rolleyes: )

Still hoping that Elwood plays Einstein.

From Peaceweaver:
there was a story about a New Zealand actress that EW was hanging around with, whom he had seen perform in a production of the VMs
Thanks, Peaceweaver - that must have been one Madeleine Sami. Somehow I remembered the name, but not the VM connection. Just found this (http://www.theatretoursinternational.com/PastShows/PSNO2.htm). But was it VM or Bare he saw in NZ that time? MS's CV (http://www.aucklandactors.co.nz/ViewFullCV.pl?objectID=194) suggests VM came later. But he may have seen that too ....

Interesting that she's actually younger (YOB 1980) and shorter (5'5) than him.

Is she? I thought he was born in Jan 1981. Shireling, who has met him, thinks he's actually about 5'4 (so do some others, I believe). One day it may happen (a younger, shorter girlfriend, that is) ;)

Back to the coal face ......

You're right about the age. I realized that after I shut down last night. But at least it's a lot closer. Regarding the height, I thought he was 5'7". I don't want to start or continue a rumor of "girlfriend" but, as an "honorary aunt", I hope he finds someone nice. :)

Originally posted by esmeraldabrandybuck
(And what’s this I hear about a “fair number of Merry”?)
:o Sorry, Ezzie--checked my own "saves" and the only pics of Merry are the two you already linked to over at Brandy Hall. He just must be so impressive that I thought there were more ;) . Dom is another actor who makes screencaps worthwhile :) .


A few more thoughts from a very fuzzy brain (I hate time changes :( )--

IIRC EW was quite, quite smitten with MS during the LotR filming--seemingly more than vice versa, although they did spend time together. Is the news that they're "hanging out" recent? Maybe she's come to her senses ;) .

Also IIRC, the "official" heights for the hobbit lads was 5'5" for Elijah and Billy and 5'6" for Sean and Dom (or was it 5'6" and 5'7" :confused: ?). But "official" and "this is how tall he really is if you stand him up against the wall and measure him with his shoes off" aren't necessarily one and the same thing ;) .

Regarding hair scheduling :D -- I once read an interview with someone who makes wigs for movies who said that we'd be totally surprised if we knew how often actors are wearing wigs in movies--even when the hair looks exactly like theirs. Mostly because it's quicker and easier to keep the wigs styled the same day-to-day than someone's real hair--makes continuity less of a headache. So maybe timing roles with hair growth won't be a huge barrier :p . [Also still hoping for Einstein :) .]

Regarding the question to Sir Ian: Elijah and Sean hugged the first time they laid eyes on each other--in a hotel lobby, yet--so I don't think they'd be actually reticent to show physical contact. I do seem to recall Sean saying that Sir Ian pointed out that it was book canon.


Later:
I did some screencapping from Forever Young over the weekend, and found something to add to the "Nat angst" research from awhile back. This pic shows Daniel's (Mel Gibson's) hand over Nat's hand. Note that by age ten the poor kid is so stressed out that he's already biting his nails down to the quick :( .

http://www.imagemagician.com/images/tgshaw/Previous movies/capA2304-resized.jpg

Looking back to that discussion we had a while ago concerning PJ's directing for Frodo and his and Elijah's take on the character, there was another transcript just posted at TORn from the Astin/Wood Collectormania appearance. According to this particular recap, Sean Astin said the following when asked about the "real" hero of LotR.

I though it was very interesting, and slightly different from what we've read before. I'm also wondering whether some of what he explains may have been part of discussions they had with PJ while they were filming, or whether this is Sean's own way of explaining what Frodo goes through. Either way, I thought it was a great way of explaining some of what goes on with Frodo (and Sam)! It's another approach than the obsession / addiction angle, at least. From CheshireCat at TORn, quoting Sean Astin:
I’ve been using a metaphor for other interviews today. Frodo’s told “Hold this 10,000lb weight and don’t move!..and if you drop it – Everyone dies! So how innately dramatic is that? You’re just watching him. It’s hurting him. It’s psychological. It’s inside his mind and he’s dealing with the torture of that evil poison in his soul. Right! And people are running in and trying to get him to drop it…and Sam is knocking them away. But he’s still the one holding it. So I had the privilege of watching Peter Jackson try to communicate with Elijah..the two of them worked to figure out “How do you dramatise what is essentially an internal struggle …and just wait and see where Elijah goes with this! It’s incredible!

In other news, I now actually have tickets for RotK :cool:, as the ticket sales started here today, based on the movie being 3 hours 25 minutes. :)

I think Elijah really must be between 5'4" and 5'5".

Here's a pic from C4 where you can see how petite he is in relation to the folks around him.

http://www.angelfire.com/celeb2/elijahw/af4.jpg

Many great actors were and are small. James Cagney. Mickey Rooney. Michael J. Fox. It's the talent and the heart that counts.

Now how's this for an Albert Einstein comparison photo? Lij last year before the buzz cut.

http://www.angelfire.com/celeb2/elijahw/ym-016.jpg

Elijah MUST play Einstein! That's all there is to it. If he or any of his pals lurk here please nudge the little guy to take that part in 'Lapine Agile'!!! Please!!!!

From tgshaw:
Elijah and Sean hugged the first time they laid eyes on each other--in a hotel lobby, yet--so I don't think they'd be actually reticent to show physical contact
Indeed they did, and they hug each other repeatedly on most of the behind-the-scenes DVDs, hugged on the red carpet at the 2002 Oscar ceremony, kissed on stage at CM and in a whole series of pics, etc. etc. All the LOTR cast appear to have been completely uninhibited about showing each other physical affection from the start -- hundreds of photographs and films testify to this. So there was obviously no question of having to badger them into touching each other. However, for reasons best known to themselves, certain people seem not to want to accept that the guys could be physically affectionate without either of them being gay, and (I assume) were trying to get Ian McKellen to deny that he'd stated on the DVD that Elijah (as well as Sean) is resolutely heterosexual. Sir Ian, however, confirmed that he'd stated exactly that.
I deliberately haven't been looking at the various websites that shall not be named, so I don't know how S***** and co got round that one, but I'm sure they tried!

Maeglian, congrats on your tickets. Wish I could say the same. Actually I'll probably see ROTK in NZ, as we arrive there on Dec 17 (just 2 weeks and 3 days too late, I know - sob! Couldn't be brought forward). Hope to get tickets for the Empire in Wellington at least!
Wonderful quote from Sean. Am I right in thnking that some people now dismiss Frodo as a weakling and see Sam as the hero, forgetting that it's Frodo who carries the burden all the time, or simply not understanding the implications of the ring? Sean seems to be putting the record straight here -- good for him. I so hope that people understand the problem when they finally see the film, and give credit where credit's due.
Talking of which, here's a nice quote from Charles Taylor at salon.com on TTT:
Frodo (Elijah Wood, whose performance is both intensely physical and vibrating with a sense of spiritual terror) ...
These films have been impeccably cast ... as in the first film, we continue to experience the terrors of the heroes' quest through the blue of Elijah Wood's wide eyes. Wood manages the very difficult feat of playing a good character without becoming sappy or dear. When the ring starts to weigh him down (literally) we fear for Frodo because we are confronted with the real possibility that this good hobbit will go bad
Oh all right, I can't resist posting another:
What's best about "The Fellowship of the Ring" is still terrific: the almost scary commitment of all the performances ...; Elijah Wood's translucent, stricken cherub's face ....
and another (from a man this time):
Elijah Wood, as hobbit hero Frodo, is like a beautiful apple that begins to wither on the tree while you're watching. A fabulous accomplishment.
Hobmom, what a superb Elijstein pic !! The hair is just so Albertian! Lij must be psychic (there's plenty of proof of that elsewhere). Dammit, I wish someone had asked him at CM or in NY if he really is playing that role.
Enough coinages for one night. Bye!

“How do you dramatise what is essentially an internal struggle …and just wait and see where Elijah goes with this! It’s incredible!
Just had to requote Maeg's quote :) because this is exactly why I was so happy when Elijah was cast as Frodo. If there's any literary character this is true for, it's Frodo. And if there's any actor who can do it, it's Elijah. A match made in heaven!

Originally posted by Hobmom
Many great actors were and are small. James Cagney. Mickey Rooney. Michael J. Fox. It's the talent and the heart that counts.
That reminds me--how could I have forgotten :o ? Must tell the other member(s?) ;) of the Claude Rains Fan Club that I found and bought two of his movies last night: An Angel on My Shoulder and The Pied Piper of Hamelin (the second being not quite a major masterpiece from the looks of it :rolleyes: , but it does have songs based on Grieg's music so it shouldn't be a total disaster). Mr. Rains plays, respectively, the devil and the mayor of Hamelin who won't "pay the piper," his usual job as "the heavy." But I'm hoping there's a chance for some comedy in the Angel movie. He had such perfect deadpan comedic timing (like another short actor we know :p ), it's too bad he didn't get more chances to use it. (I'm probably one of the few people who "squeees" over the DVD bargain bin at the grocery store--you just never know what you're going to find in there :) !)


Elijah MUST play Einstein! That's all there is to it. If he or any of his pals lurk here please nudge the little guy to take that part in 'Lapine Agile'!!! Please!!!!
The info I'd most like to have is what stage that movie's at. One place says it's post-production, another that it hasn't started shooting yet... :confused: Elijah's taking or not taking the part may already be a done deal... but maybe not. It'd be nice to know.

Originally posted by serena
and another (from a man this time):
Elijah Wood, as hobbit hero Frodo, is like a beautiful apple that begins to wither on the tree while you're watching. A fabulous accomplishment.

That's beautiful, any idea who said it?

Yes, it was Andrew O'Hehir at salon.com: here (http://archive.salon.com/ent/movies/feature/2001/12/31/andrew_top_ten/)
The full review is also on the site, and there are several other reviews on salon.com that are worth reading.

Had been intending to keep quiet for a bit, but since EW said this at CM (thanks, Cheshire Cat at TORN):I'll let you into a little secret - there are a few times when they put the whole wardrobe on the wrong way around because they were planning to flip the scene in Post Production. So there was tons of backwards things.
I was wondering if anyone else thinks that the beautiful startled Frolijah pic at Bree, posted by Shireling on page 179, is reversed. EW's features are not totally symmetrical, and so .... Just wondering if anyone else had noticed.

Elda, your unicorn image is so apposite. I'm sure your theory is right.

Hello Faculty :) !

I'm trying to catch up with you, dear Ladies, and whew, I must say, there have been so many interesting and inspiring posts in the past few days, I don't know where to begin.

As for the hooligan thing: I feel some difficulty imaging Elijah in such a role, for the same reasons Mariole and Maeglian already stated. Of course, he can play that, without any doubt - no, it is the topic that distraughts me. Soccer hooligans, skinheads and neo-Nazis are terrible "real" evil forces, actually existing human Saurons amongst our societies. Hopefully the plot will offer a purification process of the characters (ainon, isn't something like that the topic of "American History X" with Edward Norton?), otherwise I'm with Blossom - I'm not sure if I want to see the film.

Shireling, the picture you posted of Elijah/Frodo in the bedroom of Bree, is so exceedingly beautiful, I can't describe it :) ! Thank you :k ! That leads me to the topic of perception of beauty. Well, I told my hubby that there is a discussion in the Faculty whether men don't dare closer looks on beautiful men resp. whether men recognise the beauty of other men. He said Elijah had a really beautiful face, he likes his portrayal of Frodo and thinks Elwood's good fun. I have to add that my hubby looks at people with the eyes of a photographer (i.e. he recognises beauty [or unicorns ;)] in case of meeting them). But also he needed lots of self-awareness lessons so as to hug male fellows without problems.

Thanks to Blossom and Tg for the links to the new ROTK pictures :k !

Serena, you have the opportunity to see ROTK in NZ?! Wow, that's great! Fingers crossed you can get a ticket :) ! Regarding your comment about Elijah as "Oskar Mazerath" in "The Tin Drum" - that was a thought that never crossed my mind so far :eek:, however, it isn't completely unthinkable... interesting consideration.
Like you and Maeglian I tried to find an angel by William Blake, but all what I could find was not very satisfying. Most convenient is this one:

http://photobucket.com/albums/0903/whiteling/blake_hekate_ausschnitt.jpg http://photobucket.com/albums/0903/whiteling/Frodo_entschlos_Ausschnitt.jpg


The left picture shows Blake's HEKATE, the UNDERWORLD GODDESS of witchcraft (was the only child of the Titanes Perses and Asteria. From her parents she inherited powers over the earth, sea and heavens).

Elijah's face is just fascinating. It combines soft and severe features and together all we see is perfect beauty in a classical sense. (Serena, I think, Shireling's picture is correct. There is no face with completely symmetrical features)

Whiteling, welcome back! Great post.
I like the comparison with Blake's Hecate, even if she is female and of the underworld (EW has said he'd like to play an evil character some day. Oskar Matzerath was perhaps not a totally serious suggestion ... but then he does have a tinge of evil that might appeal to EW!). Will let you know if I find any male Blake angels.

Entirely agree about that otherworldly Bree pic. I wasn't suggesting it's incorrect in any way; it's certainly the way that shot appears in the film. I just meant that, when I first looked at it, it occurred to me that the entire shot of Frodo in the foreground in Bree (and maybe the background too) had been "flipped" during post-production, as EW puts it; he says in the CM transcript that many shots were, and were planned to be that way. Why? Well, I could be totally wrong, but when I first saw the scene with Gandalf in the cart, and many times since, I thought that EW's left eye appears to be just slightly larger than his right. On the Bree screencap it's the other way round. But I could be entirely mistaken -- it could be the angle of the shot on the cart. It's not really of vast importance anyway!

posted by whiteling:
That leads me to the topic of perception of beauty. Well, I told my hubby that there is a discussion in the Faculty whether men don't dare closer looks on beautiful men resp. whether men recognise the beauty of other men. He said Elijah had a really beautiful face, he likes his portrayal of Frodo and thinks Elwood's good fun. I have to add that my hubby looks at people with the eyes of a photographer (i.e. he recognises beauty [or unicorns ] in case of meeting them). But also he needed lots of self-awareness lessons so as to hug male fellows without problems.

Kuduk, didn't you say your husband is now a registered lurker here?? (forgive me if I got the wrong). How does he weigh in on this matter?? (putting him on the spot!!:D )

And Serena, am I an actor?? No . But I've been around them a bit as we have one in the family, and the city I live in is quite a theater town, so there are a lot of your sort around!! Used to be very rich in fringe stuff--still is--but actors tend to get tired of working for free (practically) and eventually many drift off to Los Angeles. So I have the bittersweet pleasure of occasionally seeing old friends show up in Tv shows etc. Only bittersweet in that they had to move there to make a living at their craft. We also have a very appreciative film community around here. I appreciate the sacrifices people make to act. You lucky person, going to NZ!!! Purely for pleasure, or are you following a play or something??? Thanks for all of your sharing. It is quite facinating.

And Shireling. Thanks from me too for posting that breathtaking picture!! How very perfect.

Certainly not earthshaking, but we need to be thorough, right ;) ? IMVHO, the Bree picture that shireling posted isn't flipped--because of the skin crease. It's not visible in most Frodo caps (I imagine makeup people have something to do with that), but here's one from FotR that shows it pretty well. :

http://www.imagemagician.com/images/tgshaw/Previous movies/cap1337-85.jpg

The crease is harder to see in the Bree pic, but I do think it's visible there under the same eye--and I think I've seen that crease often enough to be pretty sure that's the eye it's [i]really under :p . Elijah' face is asymetrical in a number of ways, but that crease is a dead giveaway.

Interesting about the flipping, though. Wonder what the purpose would be? If it has something to do with special effects, maybe it's the scene of Frodo and Gandalf in the cart that's been flipped--that scene used some breakthrough technology regarding forced perspective.

-----------

On the subject of just plain beauty (is that an oxymoron? :p ). Every time I do a screencap series, there are one or two shots that take my breath away "simply" because of how beautiful Elijah is in them. And his age doesn't matter--these two are from Forever Young:

http://www.imagemagician.com/images/tgshaw/Previous movies/capA2549-resize.jpg http://www.imagemagician.com/images/tgshaw/Previous movies/capA2555-resize.jpg

And these from The Ice Storm:

http://www.frodolivesin.us/7bb252f0.jpg
http://www.frodolivesin.us/7bd252f0.jpg

It's that undefinable quality...

Popping in to say thank you to all who are posting such wonderful pictures. I'll stop by to see EW's asymmetical features anytime!

A head's up for US Faculty members (and lurkers!): Our namesake film will be on the SCIFI channel this Thursday night! 8pm here in the central time zone, but check your local listings. :) I am sure it has something to do with Halloween being Friday night, because Peter Jackson's "The Frighteners" is on the same time, same channel on Wednesday evening. If you haven't seen early PJ work, this one is a lot of fun!

Oh, serena! You used the word apposite! and correctly! bows down to serena. Can you tell I've been grading student essays? :rolleyes:

Ah, but, ALL angels are male! At least until the twentieth century image industry got hold of them!

And one more bit of news: Eternal Sunshine now has a release date: mid-March 2004! (the 19th, IIRC) :)

Check this out, and compare to the attached photo of our Fro.

Blake, but no angel! (http://www.artchive.com/artchive/B/blake/abel.jpg.html)

Sorry but I'm none too net savvy, so this is the best I can do. But I think the resemblance is remarkable!

This one is just to prove that his beauty is truly timeless and iconic! ;)

Originally posted by tgshaw
The crease is harder to see in the Bree pic, but I do think it's visible there under the same eye--and I think I've seen that crease often enough to be pretty sure that's the eye it's really under :p . Elijah' face is asymetrical in a number of ways, but that crease is a dead giveaway.


Don't have time for a real post, but I'm wondering if I'm the only one who assumes that the skin crease is left by sunglasses he wears when on set and not actively shooting?

Sheryl

Sheryl, I'm with you. This has always looked like a glasses crease to me.

Now, if Blossom were to get out her fancy Photoshop program or whatever she uses, she could compare the exact line of the "crease" pic to Honeyelf's second "timeless beauty" pic... :p

Edit: Can't wait for Blossom, I'm too impatient. So, you be the judge: Is the following statement true--

Women seldom make passes at hobbits in glasses...

http://home.ricochet.com/mdes/limages/glasses.jpg

Originally posted by peaceweaver
Eternal Sunshine now has a release date: mid-March 2004! (the 19th, IIRC) :)

Oh happy day! I hope this time it's for real.

It's been anxiety-provoking to read about the alleged studio interference with the supposedly finished film because half the audience "didn't understand it", IIRC. That would be the dumberer half, one supposes. ;) And to fiddle with a Charlie Kaufman script is :eek: :confused: :rolleyes: shocking!

Honeyelf, ROTFL!!! Makes ya wonder if Spongebob was modeled after a certain actor, don' it?:p

Hmmm... but the crease is there already as Video Game Kid #1. He wasn't wearing glasses that young, was he :confused: ? It's the fact that it's stayed so consistent through the years that makes me think it must be something permanent (sometimes hidden by makeup, but when it's visible it's always exactly the same). Speaking as someone who's worn glasses every waking moment since I was nine, each pair is going to do something a bit different to your face--will put more pressure on one or the other side, or part of the face, etc. I might be wrong, but I think there's more to the crease than a pair of glasses. (Not that this is an earthshaking issue :rolleyes: .)


-------Great news on ESOTSM! Having a set release date sounds as if it's really coming--even if the date gets pushed back. And, Goldenberry, I totally agree about tampering with the script!

Do any of you know where to find the picture of the Hobbits on the Abbey Road crosswalk? The Hobbit Beatles? The Beatle Hobbits?? (My favorite two groupings!!). Does it really exist? Or does just the rumor exist??

Thanks thanks thanks (because I know if it exists, someone here will find it for me!)

There aren't any clear versions of the Abbey Road photo shoot but just this cap from the ET News show where they filmed some of it.

I hope the photographer's versions turn up in magazines soon.

http://www.angelfire.com/celeb2/elijahw/AR4.jpg

Thank you Hobmom!!

NO WIGS??? ah, gee!! I wanted it in character (hobbit character)!! (and a volkswagon in the back would have helped!!).

hmmm, they have Elijah as John. Okay. When the Beatles were talking of doing Lotrs, I believe Paul was going to be Frodo, Ringo was going to be Sam, George was going to be Gandalf, and John was going to be Gollum. Obviously wrong characters for the cross-walk scene. But I still picture Frodo in Paul's place. Guess Frodo looks more like Paul to me. But John makes sense, too....
especially since they aren't in character for the photo...and the photo angle is more front on than the album cover...making the John/Elijah character more out front.

The closeup (movie still) of Elijah sleeping at Elrond's looked like the guy in the film version of the musical, "Puss and Boots." No? then how about the father in the musical, "Seven Brides for Seven Brothers?" LOL. Pure gorgeous Alpha Maleness. No?

As for looking like the Frodo doll, ever see a pic of Ben Taylor? (Carly Simon and James Taylor are his parents). He has very blue eyes, and a handsome face. According to pic seen in "Parade" magazine last week.
:D

i have some other screencaps that a friend did of the abbey road photo shoot. if you'd like them, email or im me (lillytoadfootbaggins@yahoo.co.uk or ravenclawfirstie on aim)

and thanks to shadowcat for telling me about this message board!

Alyon--Yes, it is my husband who is registered here and lurked extensively one day, mostly out of curiosity of what I was interested in. He loves The Lord of the Rings books and the Fellowship movie but hasn’t the time or interest in EW to keep up here. It’s too bad because he’s a much better writer than me (he used to write commercial copy, he writes (excellent) poetry and prose and works as a high school English teacher). Anyway, I asked him about male beauty and he said that when he sees a good looking male he recognizes that but that it is much more objective than when he sees a beautiful female. He likened seeing a good looking male to seeing a beautiful painting. Much more objective, he says.

Cain, Spongebob, Munchkin, John Lennon…is there anything Elijah can’t do?? :D :D

That Abbey Road pic is one of the coolest things I’ve ever seen!

Thanks for the Abbey Road pic, Hobmom--but it doesn't look as if anyone's barefoot :confused: . Paul's supposed to be barefoot, y'know, or the "Paul is dead" theory pretty much goes out the window (even if you can still hear the words when you play the album backwards) :p . Maybe they were afraid people would see bare feet and think "hobbit" instead of "album cover authenticity."

Speaking of "very blue eyes and a handsome face" :) the same issue of Realms of Fantasy that had the short interview with Elijah also had a picture (in character) of the boy who was cast to play Peter Pan--remember that rumor :eek: ? Not as "interesting" a face ;) as Elwood's, but light blue eyes and something of an ethereal look about him. I could definitely have seen Elijah fit that picture when he was younger--but I'm very glad he's grown up instead :) .

And speaking of nothing but my own screencapping adventures :rolleyes: , it's an eyeopener to see some of these movies on DVD for the first time, after having watched them (some over and over) on VHS. Had Deep Impact in the drive last night, and came away with a greatly changed feeling about the teethcapping. Til now, when I called it "defacing a natural treasure," I was kinda kidding--mostly thinking about the loss of the cute gap. Last night, by the end of the "proposal" scene (the most obvious Froshadowing in existence, I believe ;) ), I was in full Aaarrghhh!! mode :mad: , actually screaming at my monitor! The capping changes the entire shape of Elijah's mouth, and to a certain extent his face as a whole. The angle in that particular scene makes it excruciatingly obvious! Even on much fuzzier VHS, I'd thought there was something a bit off with Elijah's appearance in that scene, and now I know what it is. -- My aim for November is to have "original" screencaps on my main website for as many movies as possible (instead of pics I've grabbed from Star Galaxy), and I'll put up one from that scene as a "visual aid" on the Deep Impact comment page.

:) Welcome, lilly t. --thought you were one of the "old hands" around here until I read your post :p . Then I noticed the middle initial :) .

Sean looks barefoot to me. Turn me on, dead man. ;)

Originally posted by kuduk
Sean looks barefoot to me. Turn me on, dead man. ;)

Your picture is likely clearer than mine, so could very well be. On my monitor (which has been complaining about creaky joints lately :( ) it looks as if he's wearing light tan boots. But, yeah, if I mentally draw in some toes :p , it works pretty well. :)

Okay, I know that Elijah's John and Sean's Paul, but does anyone remember where George and Ringo are supposed to be - who's second in line and who's last? I think Billy's Ringo, but I'm not sure.:o

And (for what it's worth) Sean looks barefoot to me, too. It would be cool to see some clearer, more official pictures, though, if they become avaliable.:)

Welcome, Lilly!:)

Hi Bridget!

On the Abbey Road album cover, John is first, then Ringo, Paul and then George:

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-10/461149/abbeyroad.jpg


:)

{{{{Faculty}}}} for a very interesting discussion about Beauty.

{{{Faculty}}} for your discussion of inner beauty. :k

And part of Elijah's inner light surely comes from his forthright honesty. For instance, re: his Book reading, which he could so easily have lied about but didn't. Anyone come across this part of Xo's C4 report at TORN?
Aud: Did you read Lord of the Rings before you made the film?

E: I hadn’t no. [sheepishly] I like to not answer that one. [laughter]

S: [springing to Elijah’s defence] He’s read a lot, he’s read a lot!

E: Let me just explain it. Because I, um, I’d never read the books before, I’d read the Hobbit! I’d always owned Lord of the Rings. I got to New Zealand. I started reading the books when I got there, but the movie took over and I was surrounded by everything Tolkien and everything Lord of the Rings totally, so it felt redundant to then get the book and jump into that world when I was already surrounded by it. So I kind of let my character, you know the character of Frodo, take me on my own journey in the world that was created around me and that was kinda the process that I went through. If that explains it at all… maybe it doesn’t [humbly] OK. Somehow, that did help...

Btw, in that same coverage, there's this: Aud: Did you have to be naked for the Tower scene in ROTK or will Frodo have everything taken from him in ROTK? [screams from the audience]

E: Er, hang on, just let me think [Xo: He has to think about this???]

S: Well I know what he looked like when we were filming.

E: No, not everything. I’m not naked if that’s what you’re asking [screams]

S: Almost!I just thought his reaction was so frankly 'real' and - well sort of adorably modest, that you might not mind my posting it (again?).

Then, on that same occasion, E and S answered the hero question in just the way F and S would have. Very sweet. At first, I was taken aback that Elijah didn't recognize Frodo as The Hero but it's appropriate that he did not because it shows how much he identifies with Frodo.

Sorry for repeating what's probably old news, but as you can see, I so enjoyed reading this particular version of that event that I couldn't resist blabbing about it.

....just a short time now til the extended TTT....:)

thanks for the welcome all!

and def agree about the f/s and e/s thing...they really absorbed their characters...and truthfully i think there was always a little frodo in elijah and a little sam in sean- mostly character acting, just their own personalities

Naiad--thanks so much for posting the info about him reading/not reading the books. That's the first time it's really made sense to me.

Thanks to estella for posting the orig Abbey Road pic.

from Naiad
At first, I was taken aback that Elijah didn't recognize Frodo as The Hero but it's appropriate that he did not because it shows how much he identifies with Frodo.
Really nice observation, Naiad! I read that transcript also, and he really did sound sincere in thinking, Well, yeah, Sam's the hero. In one of his early interviews (anyone remember the charity bathtub race?) he was asked what Frodo would do to win the race. He answered, "He'd probably get Sam to help him. Frodo can't do much of anything by himself." (Elijah came in last, for those of you who haven't seen the clip. His bathtub sank. :D)

I can sense people perhaps getting tense that Elijah didn't appreciate what a hero Frodo was, but I think Naiad really nailed it. Elijah has whatever that is in his personality that prevents him from seeing the heroic aspect -- he is too aware of his (or his character's) shortcomings. He also doesn't seem to think he's particularly good looking. I think families are great for this. His sister probably keeps him from getting a swelled head (just speculating that because they seem to be close).

Both Michael J. Fox and Tom Selleck had a deliberate strategy of involving their brothers in keeping them grounded. If you've read MJ Fox's book "Lucky Man" he relates one moving encounter where his brother took him down a much-needed peg (or so he recalls it). I remember from some interview show Tom S. saying how his brothers were all much bigger than him and would pound him if he starting acting all movie star. That groundedness is rare but people can create and maintain it in their lives if they set out to do so. Go, Elijah!