OMG, LOVE those new pictures!! http://www.imagemagician.org/images/deluby/drool.gif THANK YOU ainon!! :k
Fatty was right when he said there would be lots of new piccy coming out on Nov.1st.


Re: TTT soundtrack rumor:
Actually Icelandic singer Emiliana Torrini will sing the title song for The Two Towers.Emiliana Torrini To Sing For TTT?
10/31/02, 11:45 am EST - Xoanon

Ratatoskur writes: I just heard that Icelandic singer Emiliana Torrini will be performing the main song for The Two Towers (probably in the end). Apparently the contract was signed Tuesday. This is from a reliable source.

More information on this as soon as we discover it! Meanwhile take a look at emilianatorrini.net

But Liv is recording a song for TTT as well. Now THIS Is Bazaar News!
10/19/02, 12:46 am EST - Xoanon

Elennaur writes: I saw that Liv Tyler is on the cover of November's "Harper's Bazaar". There is a short article/interview inside, in the article, it is mentioned that she was (at interview time) preparing to record a song for the "Two Towers" soundtrack. She comments upon being thrilled with the opportunity, since she has always dreamt of being a singer.
I think liv's song might be something like "Aniron", you know, used in the movie as part of the score in the background. Maybe Arwen sings at some point?? :confused: Anway, I trust PJ and Howard Shore. If it really distract audience from the movie I think they would pull it out. Don't they always record more than they need?

*Sigh*

The lot of a true LOTR fan is a hard one. So much depends on PJ and his cinematic choices. The poster designs are in the hands of professional marketing people who care little for the relative importance of characters, or the relationships between them. The masses of casual moviegoers who do NOT possess, and cannot understand, the love of a true Tolkienite must have their puny hearts massaged by advertising campaigns that upset and worry the True Believers.

And now we have come to this: Liv Tyler is recording a song for TTT.

Yet hope remains while they publish stills like those we have seen today. And I find Feral Fro to be absolutely thrilling.

Hi, just a really quick one right now so you all know I'm still here! I've not run away or anything:p

Hi, Starlight and welcome to the madhouse ;)

Oh is it PJ's birthday? I never knew! Happy Birthday you wonderful man! :)

I've had a crap day at work today, got left on my own for a while and was supposed to be counting a pile of money but I didn't get peace to do it cos the phone was ringing constantly then this guy was giving me hassle about something I knew nothing about :( Am on again tomorrow, oh joy ;)

Blossom - yes it was a friend of a friend who walked out halfway through the film. I've met the girl a couple of times and she seems pretty sane otherwise :rolleyes: I don't think she's read the books or anything I don't know what she was expecting with the film or why she was disappointed at it. I was shocked that she'd walked out, I've never done that even when a film's been chronically bad I always hang on to the end in case it gets better! Maybe that's why my friend hadn't seen it cos her pal said it was rubbish, she must've read all the brilliant reviews - maybe the length of the movie had put her off though. Anyway I've not heard from her yet so I don't know what she thought.

deluby - yet more amazing animations! How do you do it! And I just love that Moria one too...


This photo that tg put on the other page -

http://www.imagemagician.com/images/tgshaw/CoE/cap555.jpg

I've never noticed that shot before! It goes too quick when you're watching it and you don't catch that, only what follows. Thanks.


Re - the new poster, I thought it was kind of nice at first (am always excited at something new to do with TTT, however small!) but everyone seems to be bashing it everywhere :D And Arwen isss way to big. It's on the official site aswell, so it must be official unless they're playing games with us.

ainon - thanks for that Grey Book excerp! hehe (gets visions of Ian McKellan's bum coming down a fireman's pole like in Bridget Jones' Diary!)

I watched Bumblebee again the other night, don't know when I'll get a proper review in or even if I'll get a proper review in, my reviews of movies tend to be along the lines of 'I really enjoyed it, especially the bit when....and...." or "It was rubbish, and such and such an actor really annoyed me". No in-depth analysis then! :p One thing I noticed, what with tg saying about EW's penchant for wearing blue in a lot of his films, there's a scene in Bumblebee where he's wearing a bright red jumper, which makes you stare a bit cos it really stands out against his pale skin. Also, Blossom (and anyone else who's seen Bumblebee) I really loved that piece of music they played from time to time during the film - like at the start and when EW and Berto are standing at the window at night, it's an instrumental piece there's no words sung it's quite haunting and lovely. Anyone know who it's by or what it's called?

I haven't seen the 'feral' Frodo pics, must check them out...(skips back a page) aahhh...poor boy :( I remember the first time in that little trailer that was out before when he says, "The Ring will not save Gondor...it has only the power to destroy". I was looking at a screencap of that bit, with 'feral' Frods. My mum came in and nearly screamed when she saw the pic on the screen! Scary Frodo :p

Woah! I just went back and saw deluby's big Frodo pic. He is so beautiful when he's angsty (has a quick swoon when no-one's looking). And is it just me or does those big thick bits of hair hanging down near his ears look like massive sideburns?!

One thing I noticed about FOTR is the scene just after Gandalf has left Sam and Frodo to go to Isengard. A bird makes a noise and Frodo gets a fright and glances about. Then Elijah glances right at the camera! It's kind of funny! I looking at it in slow-motion but I couldn't freeze frame the moment but it's clear when you're watching it!


Here's another 'determined EW' pic from Chain of Fools, I got it at Elijahfan.com -

http://images.ewoodmedia.com/Movies/ChainOfFools/Still_015.jpg


Well that was supposed to be a 'quick' post, but it's taken me over an hour to type!

Anyway, hugs to you all :)

Luth

Oh, I'm so relieved that some of you like my "feral Frodo." I was feeling like a bit of a freak there, for awhile, thinking no one else saw there what I did. I can't wait to see that scene in the film!

Of course, I can't wait to see any scene in the film, but we're all in that boat! :D

I tried to make myself an icon from that second feral pic, and it just doesn't work. When I sized it down that far it just lost something in the translation, and I gave up. Oh, well. I can still stare at it full-sized.

That new picture of Frodo and Sam (the hand-holding) almost made me swoon in its own right! Wow! I immediately planted it on my desktop. I've seen some of the other new stills, but I'm going to try to be strong and not go looking for them. Golly... 46 days. Don't know if I can make it.;)

A bit OT, but here are some clarification on TTT soundtrack.
From SoundtrackNet (http://www.filmmusic.com/news/article/?id=411) Exclusive Clarifying Specs on The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers soundtracks!
Release Date: 11/01/2002


Due to the prevalence of internet rumor gone amok, SoundtrackNet and Reprise/WMG Soundtracks are proud to provide you with some clarifying information regarding the upcoming soundtrack releases for The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers, by Howard Shore.

The release for this soundtrack will mirror the pattern set last year for The Fellowship of the Ring. A regularly priced soundtrack ($18.99 or so) will be issued, with five collectable double-sided trading cards.

A Limited Edition, ($29.99 or so) will also be released, in similar look-and-feel to last year's Limited Edition, but will contain an extra bonus track, "Farewell to Lórien" from The Fellowship of the Ring: Special Edition DVD. It will not be a 2-CD release.

There is also going to be a special third release of the score, in a limited run of 5,000 copies, that would only be available online. More details will be announced shortly.

All three versions will contain enhancements and/or web links that are currently being worked on and we will keep you posted as to what those will be.

A track listing follows:

1. Foundations Of Stone
2. The Taming Of Sméagol
3. The Riders Of Rohan
4. The Passage Of The Marshes
5. The Uruk-hai
6. The King Of The Golden Hall
7. The Black Gate Is Closed
8. Evenstar (featuring Isabel Bayrakdarian)
9. The White Rider
10. Treebeard
11. The Leave Taking
12. Helm's Deep
13. The Forbidden Pool
14. Breath Of Life (featuring Sheila Chandra)
15. The Hornburg
16. Forth Eorlingas (featuring Ben Del Maestro)
17. Isengard Unleashed (featuring Elizabeth Fraser & Ben Del Maestro)
18. Samwise The Brave
19. Gollum's Song (performed by Emiliana Torrini)
20. (Bonus Track): Farewell To Lórien (featuring Hilary Summers)

Special thanks to Jason Cienkus for clearing all this up.

Dan Goldwasser- (dsg@soundtrack.net)

Seems no Liv Tylor after all. :rolleyes:

Deluby: Seems no Liv Tylor after all.
Unless of course Liv is recording under the name "Isabel Bayrakdarian". :D

:eek: :eek:
:D
Back on Topic:
A new TTT movie card from A Hobbit's Tale:

http://www.ifrance.com/ahobbitstale2/pictures/ttt_tradingcards01.jpg

Looks like the shot they used in one of EA Game's promo banner.

Gollum has a SONG??!!! :eek:

Nice new Frodo pic, deluby. God I would kill for skin like that! ;)

You know, seeing the soundtrack listing after thinking about "Where There's a Whip, There's a Way" brings to mind too many rather disturbing possibilities for "Gollum's Song"...

Anybody got little kids (or hang out with your sister's little kid, like I did last summer)? From one of the many Sesame Street albums, there's a song called "Elmo's Song" that is now stuck in my head...

la la la la
la la la la
Gollum's Song...

See, my brain is definitely not functioning on a Faculty level these days! Better stick to lurking!

Mel

Originally posted by mel headstrong
la la la la
la la la la
Gollum's Song... BWAAHAAHAAA! I am SO with you on that one. I was trying so hard not to laugh out loud that it hurt...

YES! We are onto page 18! I was waiting for someone to bring us to a new page so I could post new gifs.(3 direct linked gifs on the same page will get me trouted for sure :D). Thanks BunnieBugs!!
Did anyone notice that since imagemagician added an 'edit' function on their site the images don't load as fast as they used to ? :(

OK, instead of posting Lothlorien ones I'm posting these two shots from the latest TTT trailer for today. I did those about 2 days ago and since Maeglian mentioned one of them yesterday and then the shot of the second one was in today's new piccy, I figured now would be a good time to post them.

1. Angelic Frodo
http://www.imagemagician.org/images/deluby/TTTtrailer2as.gif
http://www.imagemagician.org/images/deluby/TTTtrailer2as.gif

2. Sam holding Frodo's hand
http://www.imagemagician.org/images/deluby/TTTtrailer2bs.gif
http://www.imagemagician.org/images/deluby/TTTtrailer2bs.gif



Originally I wasn't gonna do those until I'm done with the movie itself, but I was watching the trailer for the Nth time the other night and later listening to the newly downloaded trailer music on a loop, then I just got totally emotional. I HAD to get those two scenes done. I don't know how after watching that trailer every few days for a month, it still gets me everytime. Especially when aragorn says "they will hold" and then the screen flashes to the quick shot of Sam holding Frodo's hand, I am just about to reach for tissues. :( http://www.imagemagician.org/images/deluby/tearyeye.gif Now staring at those two gifs just make it worse.

*take a deep breath* Sorry I'm not making any sense here. :o http://www.imagemagician.org/images/deluby/ignoreme.gif

Deluby, that totally makes sense to me! I wasn't going to linger here -- I'm supposed to be upstairs with my family -- but I had to sit, transfixed, and stare at those two gifs for awhile. They are absolutely stunning.

And the animation made the second one much easier to see! Frodo is actually moving quite a bit in that shot, which was not really apparent in the trailer! It also appears that Frodo gasps as Sam pulls his hand away from the Ring. Captivating.

All I can say is 'wow.' And thank you!

Originally posted by BunnieBugs

All I can say is 'wow.' And thank you!

How about, "ARGH! deluby, you're killing me! I can't stand to wait until Dec. 18th!"

But it's a good death, a good death...

Actually, what's really awful is that we'll probably be driving out to TN with the kids that weekend, so if I don't line up a babysitter for Wednesday or Thursday (hubby will kill me if I even suggest going for the first time without him - or on Friday), we're not going to be seeing it until we get out to the parentals, and they'll strangle us if we remotely imply we'd like to dump the kids on them while we go see the flick, which means we can't go until my sister shows up - which means not until December 23rd, at least.... (Assuming she's seen it by then - she should have, but I haven't really trusted her since I discovered she never actually read the books...)

And all my potential babysitters plan to be watching it themselves in that time period. :eek:

You want angst?

"The movie's in the theatres and I can't get to it." :(

That's angst. But it ain't the kinda angst any angst maven wants to have to deal with. :p

Sheryl

Well, the babysitters won't all be seeing it on Wednesday AND Thursday, right? Although, why not? I probably will be, if I can get away with it!:p So just find out when they're going and plan around that!;)

deluby, I have been lurking and watching all your .gifs in awe. That last one makes me shudder.:( He's actually REACHING for the RING, and he doesn't even KNOW it, and oh it's just so awful...:( :o

Oh Deluby, the juxtaposition of those last two gifs, one on top of the other...it's just...just...just!!!!!!

And in that bottom one, just the way he gasps when Sam pulls his hand away......!!!!! I am dying to see the rest of this scene...in the pic that Ainon posted today, Frodo's eyes are clearly OPEN...indicating that he was NOT asleep (as I initially thought), but rather in some kind of stupor...and what on earth is Sam looking at so warily? I MUST KNOW!! I MUST!!!!! Only 47 days til I find out!!!!!!!

OH MY GOD, beautiful piccy coming in non stop.

http://www.imagemagician.org/images/deluby/frodo143a.jpg

From the new update at the official site: http://www.lordoftherings.net/film/exclusives/banners/index.html
I crop the Frodo part as usual, there are poster and desktop versions available. I'm wondering if we'll be able to buy the poster version.

Original poster here
http://www.lordoftherings.net/film/exclusives/banners/images/frodo_poster.jpg

Got.... to....tear.... myself..... away..... from....screen..... I ...... have.... an .... important... appointment...

Deluby, I love those 2 gifs so much words won't describe it! The beauty of the first one. I mean, how is it possible to *look* like that?? The bluish/dark colour of the scene, the camera angle shifting, that sinister dark hand floating in from the left.... It's right up there with the riverbank scene in mesmerizing effect.

And the angstyness of the other....

Thank you!

Not to mention the poster, and the contents of the soundtrack. For reason probably obvious, I melted at the sight of the "Samwise the Brave" track there towards the end. So, we know that "Choices" aren't in the film, but from that soundtrack title and because that scene with the 2nd gif above appears in the film, there'll be enough angst to make me speechless anyhow.

Sheryl, I hope you'll be able to juggle the film watching schedule. But if not, you'll just have some extra days with extreme anticipation and excitement.... I guess it can be looked at that way, at least.

And honestly, all of us are not going to manage see it on premiere day, are we? I know it will be difficult for me to get tickets, because neither I myself nor anyone I'm going with are actually lining up in front of the cinema as ticket sales start. The whole town wants tickets, and the movie theatre isn't very large, although I'm hoping they'll show the film in more than one room.

Originally posted by tgshaw

Don't tell me I'm going to have to fetch Ezzie over from Brandy Hall so we can do our defense of the Bakshi movie! It does have some positives (mostly due to being truer to the book--includes the Conspiracy, etc.)!



Mhahahaha! Am I going to have to bring up the Bakshi United Liberation League? (B.U.L.L.) :p I challenge anyone to mini-skirted Viking dolls at 10 paces… or how about Mr Potato Head Sammys instead? :D

Sorry tg, I know you wanted to get away from the subject, but I don’t get over here often enough with my lurking, and I just had to put in my 2 cents before the Bakshi effigy got it’s final kick for the week. ;)

I think too many people are letting studio approved images get in the way of Bakshi’s valiant attempt to bring the story to the big screen in a way that he hoped might begin do it justice, while at the mercy of those that controlled the purse strings. He certainly succeeded in wiping all vestiges of the (IMO) disagreeable Rankin-Bass production out of my head, and I thank him for that, and for everything I did like about his creation.

I can’t see how Bakshi’s variations/visuals of the story can really be any worse than PJ’s variations/visuals of the story, seeing as neither one are completely accurate. (I am gleeful how PJ’s scene of the hobbits hiding under the tree roots from the ringwraith was exactly like Bakshi’s scene.) :) Think about it, twenty years down the line someone else will bring LOTR to the viewing public, and those fans will look back at everything we thought was wonderful about PJ’s production, and laugh about the dweebishness that abounded. Don’t laugh, it will happen, and you will be left mumbling, ”but I LOVED PJ’s Lord of the Rings… I for one will be standing by to say, “welcome to the club. Doesn’t feel so hot, does it…" ;)

Deluby, I love your gifs!!! They’re so mesmerizing! In the Sam and Frodo one, is anyone more intrigued by Sam grabbing Frodo’s hand out from inside his shirt, moreso that Sam holding his hand so dearly? Just what was Frodo going through at that moment that Sam felt it so necessary to quickly grasp his hand away? Also, in the beautiful golden-toned poster, I’m very drawn to Frodo’s hands moreso than his face. The one hand clutching the ring, securely, but not tightly, and the other hand in a supportive, caring, almost caressing gesture… (Or am I just too fascinated with hands lately?)

Ainon, your pix of Frodo and Sam in the cavern hide-away… I’m incredibly moved by how small, helpless and hopeless Frodo looks sitting against those barrels. :(

OK, folks, after studying the second gif of Sam grabbing Frodo's hand, it looks to me like Frodo is saying "No" just before the switch to Sam's face. Does anyone agree with me? If so, is he saying "No, I won't put it on" to the evil eye of Sauron? Can't wait to see this. Also, I wonder if that newest Frodo poster scene will be in the film. If so, who/what is he looking at with that relatively calm, almost wistful expression? And the way he's holding his left hand reminds me of one of those religious paintings again. The ones I always think I remember but can never find on the internet. Sigh. Is the extended DVD out yet?

Once again, deluby has rendered me speechless. And then the newFrodo-centric poster! My oh My oh My.....

I was delighted to see the list of soundtrack threads, for two reasons. One is that it relieves my anxiety about the Daughter of Aerosmith on the soundtrack. The other is that it seems to indicate that PJ is planning to interpose the Fro-Sam-Gollum story with the Rohan/Isengard/Fangorn story rather nicely. But if the final tracks are called Samwise the Brave and Gollum's Song (was it mel who suggested the parallel to Elmo? I'm ROFL!!!), the mystery of where the Two Towers will end seems to deepen. The title of the Samwise the Brave track echoes the title of the last book of TTT, "The Choices of Master Samwise," but we have all been warned not to expect the movie to end as the book did. The suspense is killing me.

Originally posted by Vita S-B
the mystery of where the Two Towers will end seems to deepen. The title of the Samwise the Brave track echoes the title of the last book of TTT, "The Choices of Master Samwise," but we have all been warned not to expect the movie to end as the book did. The suspense is killing me.
We ought to start a soundtrack speculation thread in the Trilogy forum or something so people from all the different threads can participate in soundtrack speculation. (This has totally killed my attempts to avoid massive speculation! Ah, well, at least I'll only speculate like crazy for a month and a half this year.)

I bet it's a scene that isn't in the book. In fact, I hope it's something non-canon... because if The Stairs of CU, Shelob's Lair, and Choices... great chapters... are all compressed into one movie chapter, I'm gonna be really, really mad.

More angst! More drama! More angst! :D

Mel

Originally posted by Louise
And the way he's holding his left hand reminds me of one of those religious paintings again. The ones I always think I remember but can never find on the internet.

I remember those, too. Couldn't find one either. *sigh* But in looking I think I did recognize the artist who did that great Paul painting with the horse - thought it was Rembrandt, but now I'm thinking it must be Carraviggo. Carravagio. Carra... rats. Something like that, but of course I didn't write it down. But I know I've seen that hand gesture somewhere, too, and religious sounds right.

Maeglian,
Not only will I probably not get to see TTT right away - once we take off, I won't even be able to get into KD! Augh!

Which will solve my spoilers issue, I suppose. I was worried about hearing too much right after the movie came out but before I got to see it, but nobody can tell me all about it if I can't get onto the Internet. :rolleyes: Technically I can get on the 'net at my parent's house - but I can't tie the phone line up very long, of course, and dad's computer is sloooow. Plus my parents and siblings will probably think I should spend time with them talking. They're funny that way. ;)

Originally posted by Mel
More angst! More drama! More angst!

Yeah, what Mel said. :D

I hope you did set up that thread, Mel - I'm gonna go in search of it now.

Sheryl

We need tgshaw to tell us what the symbolism of the hands mean in those religious paintings. Sometimes the subject is holding a small globe-like thing with a cross on top (can't remember what that is called) when they do that. And I know I've read what those different hand "signals" mean. Anyone? tgshaw? Bueller?

Edit: OK, don't tell me I'm crazy, but is Frodo indicating that he's holding "the One Ring" in that poster? Because I seem to remember that in religious where they're holding up 3 fingers it means "Father, Son and Holy Ghost". Just grasping at straws here.

Is this the St Paul pic you're thinking of?

www.kfki.hu/~arthp/html/c/caravagg/05/29ceras.html

or this one?

www.kfki.hu/~arthp/html/c/caravagg/05/30conver.html

I don't think Frodo's finger position in that last poster has any special significance. But it does remind me, along with the colors, of this dude's hand:

http://www-gap.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/~history/Miscellaneous/Durer/Self_28.html

Finger gesture, Annunciating Angel:

http://home.pacbell.net/blueink2/ANNUNCIATION.html

There really IS something strangely...ecclesiastical about Frodo's hands in that poster, and like Ezzie, I find them if not more compelling, than at least AS compelling as his face.

In much Christian art, Jesus (or a saint or pope) is usually depicted with his right hand raised, the first two fingers up, while the rest are folded down. This was considered a traditional gesture of blessing. When angels are depicted, they are sometimes shown like this:

http://www.artrenewal.org/images/artists/r/Reni_Guido/large/Angel_of_the_Annunciation_WGA.jpg

My "History of Art," by EH Gombrich, says that this hand gesture was often used to denote speaking. In the example above, the angel is speaking to Mary (whom you cannot see in this portion.)

The globe with the cross on top was an orb, which I think was often carried around in ceremonies by major religious leaders...popes and such. I'd have to look it up, but I'm pretty sure it represented the triumph of Christ (the cross) over the world (the globe). Which now that I think about it is pretty interesting since everyone thought the earth was flat at one point...

While we're on the religious art appreciation, here's one that I thought of the very first time I saw that Frodo-in-Ithilien shot (see Deluby's gif, above):

http://www.globalarte.it/storia/immseicento/253.jpg

Originally posted by Wild Goose
Is this the St Paul pic you're thinking of?


Yes, it is. Hurrah! I love the way the horse looks crowded into the painting, I don't know why, and I like the look of Paul, too. Although I have a suspicion the real Paul wasn't nearly as handsome. ;)

Thanks, Wild Goose!

But the hand paintings weren't ones I was thinking of. I was thinking I'd seen a painting of Abraham making that gesture, but OTOH I also seem to remember one of Jesus and his cousin John as infants, where John is making the gesture. I was thinking it was common to saints pointing the way to Christ or something, but I'm talking through my hat, really.

elda,
I think you're right about the ball and cross symbolism. Educated people in the time of Columbus and sailors and the like knew the earth was round, so toward the end of the Medieval age they'd figured it out anyhow. The ancient Greeks had it figured, so I'm not sure educated people ever thought it was flat. Columbus didn't get grief for thinking the earth was round - he got grief because no one agreed with his math on the size of the earth. People figured it was ocean from England to Japan, and no one would survive the trip.

They were all right about the size of the earth, actually, while Columbus was wrong, but fortunately for him he ran across the Americas.... Stubbornness and stupidity can be useful traits, who'd a thunk it? :D

Sheryl

When I first saw that poster, all I could think of was that they had enlarged Fro's hands to draw attention to them. Now the question is why? From what I know of Renaissance gestures (in the art historical canon, anyway) this particular gesture has no significant associations. But what it *does* do is to draw your eye to what the hands are hiding, i.e., the Ring. Perhaps the pointing finger is meant to make that clear: is that the finger Fro keeps putting the Ring on? (I guess I should footnote the Harem's wonderful discussion on ring fingers, here. :) )

But I agree that there is something reverential, if not priestly, about the portrayal of Frodo in this image. The image of Christ's head from a crucifixion scene is a very apt comparison to that Ithilien scene, elda. Despite his protestations about the Trilogy not being allegorical or symbolic, methinks Tolkien would approve.

Moan - grumble - I just wrote this post once, got almost to the end and was cut off! I hate it when that happens.

If at first you don't succeed - (that should be my motto after how long it took me to get the screencaps sorted!)

Tg, thanks for putting the weathertop caps up on your web site. I have just saved them all and will go and try the slideshow thing after this. Thanks again!:)

Ainon, I also remember reading somewhere that all the scenes with Sir Ian Holm were shot during the first few weeks. How difficult must it have been to summon all the emotion needed for the Grey Havens so early on? Those two new Frodo and Sam pics you posted were just wonderful. Thanks for that.

deluby - there you go again - spoiling us all with the TT trailer gifs. I do agree with you, Louise, about the second one - It DOES look as though Frodo is murmuring 'No' as Sam takes his hand. OMG. It's heartbreaking! I had wondered if there would be any news on content of the soundtrack before the film was realeased, but didn't really think there would be because of possible spoilers in the titles of the tracks. Well, that list is interesting, deluby. Like you, Vita, 'Samwise The Brave' sounds to me like Sam fighting off Shelob while poor Frodo is lying 'pale and still'. But Shelob doesn't appear until ROTK - DOES SHE?
Wherever Shelob appears, I do hope PJ shows us Frodo The Brave advancing towards the 'eyes' in the darkness, holding the star-glass aloft in one hand, Sting in the other, crying 'Galadriel!'

Maeglian, did you say they have definitely filmed Frodo and Sam running with the orcs? Now that will be angsty

Luthiea, are you there? Sorry to hear you had a bad day at work. Don't let it get to you. Just keep :) Now you've got me thinking I must go and check out the DVD for that 'Frodo looks straight at the camera bit. I admit I haven't noticed that.

Sheryl, I doubt you'll be the only one here who doesn't get to see TTT during the first week. I will go and soon as I can, but probably won't make it until the weekend. I think it opens here in the UK mid-week, which is a bad time for us to go, as we have to be up really early most days.

Only 10 days to go for the extended DVD! :) :) :) I WILL get it, now Holly is better.

Hope Sammie is recovering well, Goldenberry. Is she still having breakfast in bed?

I'm going to post this now, before I get cut off again. There's a ghost in this machine tonight.:eek:
Bye.

Originally posted by Vita S-B
When I first saw that poster, all I could think of was that they had enlarged Fro's hands to draw attention to them. Now the question is why? From what I know of Renaissance gestures (in the art historical canon, anyway) this particular gesture has no significant associations. But what it *does* do is to draw your eye to what the hands are hiding, i.e., the Ring. Perhaps the pointing finger is meant to make that clear

You've reminded me of the eerie little images of apostles or monks that sometimes turn up in the margins of medieval manuscripts and psalters, pointing to particularly important bits of text...silent sentinels that seem to whisper Here....the important thing is here.... I don't know if Frodo's hands were posed that way intentionally, or if it was just a serendipitous accident, but when I look at it I seem to hear that same whisper of Here...It's here. What a haunting image! I'm amazed again and again by the depth of emotion and meaning that suffuses these movies! Who ever thought that a filmmaker could get it all so very right!!!!

Hi everyone - thanks Blossom I had a better night tonight, it was really quiet so I got to leave early :D

deluby - thanks for that new Frodo pic! Aw he looks lost there the way he looks lost in thought has he holds the Ring... :( Look at Gollum in the poster too, limbering up for a soulful rendition of Gollums Song! :p

http://www.warofthering.net/movies/photos/brandnewttt/images/ttt-8-360.jpg

Does anyone else think that this scene looks sort of like the the 'tangled knot of thorns' Frodo, Sam and Gollum crawl into to hide just before they reach the crossroads? It sounds like it could be...

Frodo slept unquietly, turning and tossing, and sometimes murmuring. Twice Sam thought he heard him speaking Gandalf's name.

Of course it could be something completely different, or brand new that PJ has thought up... Don't mind me.

Originally posted by BLOSSOM
Like you, Vita, 'Samwise The Brave' sounds to me like Sam fighting off Shelob while poor Frodo is lying 'pale and still'.

Also wondering if this couldn't be the scene on the stairs when they are talking about tales (though I thought that scene was not going to be included)

'Why, Sam.' he said, 'to hear you somehow makes me as merry as if the story was already written. But you've left out one of the chief characters: Samwise the stouthearted.'

Again, I could be way off base here.

tg - good capture! That is truly a precious shot! But we REALLY have to get you a better imaging package! LOL - he looks much better 'un stretched'!

http://web.kcnet.org/arielshouse/ParthGalen000.jpg

Thanks also to deluby for the .gif files. I had made a few films for the harem (some very swoony ones ;)) but when I converted them to .gif format, the image quality just went down the drain, so I kept them as .avi files. They were fun while they lasted, but more work than I have time for these days. (RL blows, sucks, stinks, rots, and otherwise is no fun at all....) And besides, yours are far better than mine could ever dream of being.

Hope you are all having a fun evening with all these new piccies...

Ariel hopes someday soon her swoon will come back... :(

Ariel

I looked through my art books and on the internet tonight, and found numerous instances of the type of hand motion that Elda posted - the 'blessing' motion. I also found some that were very close to the one in the Poster, but with the hands slightly crossed across the chest (rather than resting directly on top of each other). In these pictures, the gesture always represented one of three things - contained passion (including grief or adoration), prayer, or seeking protection.

I don't want to read too much into it, because I think these types of images are ingrained in our collective unconscious to an extent, so we don't need a specific religious or iconoclastic background to 'read' the body language, and the photographers didn't need to 'mean' to reflect a particular image to have this effect. What I do know is that it is a very powerful image.

Edit: Ariel, if you're missing your swoon, you can have some of mine! I have enough for three or four people these days - I'd be happy to give some away!

(((((Ariel)))))

And I do believe you are right about the Samwise the Stouthearted reference on the stairs of Cirith Ungol. It's wonderful to be in touch with such learned Tolkien scholars.

Narya: In these pictures, the gesture always represented one of three things - contained passion (including grief or adoration), prayer, or seeking protection.

Thanks, Narya. I'm going to go with contained grief, but it could be prayer. And I wouldn't be surprised if someone on PJ's team did know about religious symbolism. They certainly knew little details about everything else. And that hand position isn't exactly a natural one. Ah well, we don't have anything else to do until Extended DVD comes out, do we? Except research? That's what I thought. ;)

OT here, I was just gonna upload pictures to ImageMagician, but when I sign in it says username/password combination is invalid. I tried to have them sent the password to my e-mail addy, then it says no account is connected with my email address. :confused: I just checked all my posts, none of the pictures on ImageMagician are avaliable, looks like all my accounts are gone now. #$#@$%&%$ :mad: :(
The weird thing is, Blossom's ImageMagician pictures are still showing, so I don't know whether the problem is at my end or something screwed up at one of Imagemagician's server. :( Anyway, sorry about those pictures not showing, I'll try to figure out what the problem is soon.

Now back to the current religious symbolism discussion.

Deluby, I can still see your pictures - and their properties still show them on your imagemagician site. Maybe it was just down temporarily...

Unfotunately no, I just checked e-mail, they said my accounts were deleted w/o notice since I have multiple accounts connected with one e-mail. :rolleyes: Well I signed up under different e-mails then went to edit setting to change them into the one I check daily so that I won't miss anything regarding my account. Apparently they don't like that. :rolleyes: Geez, no multiple accounts, that I can understand, but how about a warning or something before hand? :rolleyes: Alright, no more rolling eyes, don't want them get stuck to the back of my eye sockets.
I'm re-signing up and re-uploading those pictures, then editing links and such. May take a while, sorry about the inconvenience.


Narya, I can see them too when I hit 'back' button on my web browser because of those cookies it stored in the computer, but when you refresh the page, pictures are gone again.

Sorry to hear it, Deluby. What a pain. Some of these internet outfits often seem to have arbitrary and changeable rules just because they can. Your determination in the face of adversity would make Frodo proud. :D

Originally posted by Louise
Your determination in the face of adversity would make Frodo proud. :D This makes me feel much better. :D Thanks Louise!

I've restored most of the images except old gifs till pre-COE, the ones after are still avaliable. PM me if anyone wants to see the old ones. :)

Deluby, sorry about the ImageMagician difficulties. I sincerely hope you will be able to continue with the gifs. And this post takes us to a new, and as yet completely gif-free page! (hint, hint....) :rolleyes: :)


Blossom, - yes, they seem to have filmed the "running with orcs". That would be a far-too-good-to-miss scene, IMO. It was reported at AICN, I think. Also Empire magazine had this cute little snippet on how Sean Astin's wife and daughter were visiting the set as a scene involving orcs, Frodo and Sam was being filmed. In-between takes the little girl would happily sit on her father's lap and place stickers on his orc armour. *That* would have been a too-good-to-miss photo for the goonies and the rest of us. The strange thing is, Empire says the 2 of them were photographed, too, barbie stickers and all, but I have never seen that photo anywhere.


Very interesting continued discussion about the religious imagery and symbolism. With the suffering yet stoic saint looks, and the hand placement and gestures, I am quite certain these scenes and images draw on and refer to Western religious art. I am wondering, though, how consciously this has actually been done; - and how much it simply draws on the "collective unconscious" as Narya says. It would have been very interesting to hear PJ comment on this at one point.

I did note that in one of Alan Lee's illustrations to LotR, published long before the film, Frodo holds his hands in quite the same manner as on the poster. The fingers aren't positioned the same way though. It's the "Black Gate is closed" illustration, with Frodo and Sam down in the left corner of the picture; - it is the one on the cover of my English version of LotR.

Also with the prevailing religious imagery references, I wonder if there will be allusions to the crucifixion once we get as far as Frodo in Cirith Ungol; - for instance as the orcs carry him away, or by means of light and shadow effects in the tower chamber. But I rather hope not!


Ezzie, tg, in acknowledgement that Bakshi's LotR wasn't that bad, and that it *was* an honest attempt to present LotR on the big screen despite its many shortcomings, I've changed my avatar for a while. That's one scene Bakshi did right: Galadriel was tempted by the Ring without freaking out in a majorly nuclear way. :D

{{{deluby}}} So sorry to hear about the ImageMagician difficulties. I was just wondering the other day, about how you could have so many ImageMagician accounts - mightn't they mind? I'm sorry I kinda jinxed you. :(

I'm glad to see that you've managed to regain your accounts now. :) And I thank you profusely again for the wonderful, wonderful gifs! :k That enlarged Frodo from the poster is beautiful! But I think I still like the Taiwan poster Frodo more. :)

Originally posted by Maeglian
I did note that in one of Alan Lee's illustrations to LotR, published long before the film, Frodo holds his hands in quite the same manner as on the poster. The fingers aren't positioned the same way though. It's the "Black Gate is closed" illustration, with Frodo and Sam down in the left corner of the picture;

Yeah, that's what I thought when I saw the Frodo poster. I don't have the book, but when I saw that cover illustration for the first time a few months back, I couldn't help but gasp at how incredibly angsty it looked. PJ is basing a lot on Alan Lee's work. Woo Hoo!


Sheryl, TTT deprivation! That *is* angst. :eek: I have a feeling I'll be angsting before you though, when it comes to the SE DVD. I went around today, asking VCD/DVD shops about the coming of the Special Edition, and the salesfolks at all these shops just looked at me and went, "Huh? You want Lord of the Rings VCD? Over there. What? DVD? There's special DVD?" Argh!!!!!

Luthiea - sounds like you're settling into your job just fine, huh? :p ;) Well, let us know what you think of 'Bumblebee', whenever you have the time.

The 'running with the orcs' story is at the E Online site, I think? It's a very cute story (Sean and his daughter, I mean) - just wish there'd been at least a wee bit of a spoiler about how Frodo was doing. :)

Maeg:
That's one scene Bakshi did right: Galadriel was tempted by the Ring without freaking out in a majorly nuclear way.

But I never remembered that she was blue! :p

TTT Speculation:

Another possibility re: 'Samwise the Brave' -- PJ might have moved the 'Samwise the stouthearted' speech that Ariel quoted to an earlier, non-bookcanon scene? Although I'd be very, very happy if it is the scene on the stairs. What's important though is that it looks like the last scene for TTT will be on Frodo&Sam. That's right and proper. ;)

Ariel:
Does anyone else think that this scene looks sort of like the the 'tangled knot of thorns' Frodo, Sam and Gollum crawl into to hide just before they reach the crossroads? It sounds like it could be...

Yeah, except that Frodo & Sam are still wearing their coats. I know - they could have taken off the coats and then put the coats back on ... but I just don't thing Frodo would care to do so. Not after whatever happens at Osgiliath - we know from the trailer that he's not wearing his coat then.

Maeg--I noticed your little avatar tribute before you mentioned it ;) . And, ainon, Galadriel's blue there for the same reason Frodo is in the pic I'm using for my avatar today (just for a comparison)--it's the lighting in that same nighttime scene.

In the religious art discussion on Frodo's hand position, I tend to go with the "collective subconscious" idea, not in the strict Jungian sense, but in the sense that there are certain expressions, gestures, etc., that humans--even ones from cultures that have never had contact with each other--seem to innately give similar meanings to. And a lot of religious art does use the "one finger pointing" to direct the eye to what's important in the picture. And, as Sheryl mentioned, I'm sure I've seen at least one where John is pointing to Jesus in that way. In response to someone's (?) question, that's the finger Frodo puts the Ring on at Weathertop--in both the book and the movie, but according to the book (at least the way I read it) it's not the one he puts it on at the Cracks of Doom. As far as I can tell after a bit of searching, the book doesn't say which finger the Ring was on at any of the other times (T. Bombadil's house, Prancing Pony, Amon Hen), and I haven't paid as much attention to PP and AH in the movie as I have to Weathertop.

What affected me almost as much as Frodo's hands on that poster is the state of those beautiful, hand-stitched cuffs :( . What a detail to show everything he's been through up til then.

(But I still think it looks like Sam must have given him a haircut.)

It must be the coloring on that poster as well as the two from the first movie (where Frodo's holding the Ring on his open palm) that bring Eastern Orthodox icons immediately to my mind. I think it was on the old thread that I posted the icons of Christ as "Pantocrator" (Ruler of All) in comparison to one of the posters from last year, so I'll put them up again:

http://www.imagemagician.com/images/tgshaw/1476da80.jpg http://www.imagemagician.com/images/tgshaw/pantokrator2_sm.jpg http://www.imagemagician.com/images/tgshaw/Christus_Pantocrator_sm.jpg

(BTW--the position of Christ's free hand in those icons comes from the fact that his fingers are spelling out the initials of one of his traditional titles in Greek.)

I couldn't find anything that resembled this new poster quite as much, because in icons Christ seems to always be holding one hand up in a gesture of blessing. The closest I could find is this one of the Sacred Heart, which is a modern icon painted in the style of the older ones (the theme of the Sacred Heart is fairly new when it comes to religious symbols--only a few centuries). The scroll in his left hand symbolizes the Word of God.

http://www.imagemagician.com/images/tgshaw/Conception Abbey-1.jpg

I did find a couple of icons--of Mary--that reminded me of Sam, though. These may not speak to everyone, but the connection kind of touched me. These are both modern icons, although they're basically direct replicas of ancient ones (I'm posting the modern copies because they're easier to see).

The first one is a picture I grew up with, seeing it on my grandmother's wall until she died and on my mother's wall since then. It's very popular, in various versions, among both Catholics and Orthodox. It's usually called "Our Lady of Perpetual Help" and I like the story behind it because of its humanness. It shows Christ as a small child, who has had a vision of the instruments of his death (held by the angels in the painting). He's so frightened by this that he's run to his mother--so quickly that one of his sandals is hanging partway off (this little detail of the sandal is in every version of this picture I've ever seen, from ancient icon through modern kitsch). She's picked him up and is holding him, but the people who write about such things say it's very significant that, although she's holding his hands in one of hers, her hand isn't closed over his, but is open--which they say is to show that we're not shut out of the love between the two of them but are included in it.

It also reminds me of the time in Mordor (which seems to be mirrored in the one clip we've had from TTT) when Frodo asks Sam to help him because he can't stop his hand from reaching for the Ring. Sam takes Frodo's hands, lays them together with their palms touching, and puts his hands over them. What's striking is that he can do this very gently--once he has Frodo's hands within his own, he doesn't have to hold them away from the Ring by force. It's as if his very touch has protection in it--like in the icon, he doesn't have to "close his hands" over Frodo's, or grasp them tightly--he just has to be there.

http://www.imagemagician.com/images/tgshaw/Conception Abbey-2.jpg

I didn't grow up with the second icon, and I don't know any story behind it, but it certainly reminds me of Sam in that clip. It's called Our Mother of Consolation. As a Frodocentric person, I especially like that the child Christ has his hand raised in blessing. Even though he needs the love and support of his mother, he's the one who's actually blessing us (and the world).

http://www.imagemagician.com/images/tgshaw/Conception Abbey-OL of Consolation.jpg

Especially regarding these last two, I'm sure there's no conscious connection made by the filmmakers--IMHO, they just show common human experience, which IMVHO is what Tolkien's idea of applicability is really all about.

Originally posted by esmeraldabrandybuck
Think about it, twenty years down the line someone else will bring LOTR to the viewing public, and those fans will look back at everything we thought was wonderful about PJ’s production, and laugh about the dweebishness that abounded. Don’t laugh, it will happen, and you will be left mumbling, ”but I LOVED PJ’s Lord of the Rings…

I have been thinking about this, and I've decided I don't agree. :D If the next two movies are as solid as the first, I think it'll survive more like Gone With the Wind - where people will scream bloody murder over someone trying to re-do it, and where the original is still appreciated by fans of the books.

I think Bakshi's will get a better rep as time goes on - both within LOTR fandom, where people will recognize that the script was pretty good, and within movie fandom, where people will recognize Bakshi's contribution to film making through his inovative use of rotoscoping and such. Actually, I think that's happening already - the movie fans part - it's just that within LOTR fandom Bakshi's still got a bad name because he disappointed many fans way back when. I wasn't into LOTR when Bakshi's came out, but at the time the complaint wasn't about the script or the art - people were upset because he hadn't finished it (which a lot of them didn't know going in).

OTOH, it may turn out that the costuming and such like of PJ's version will reflect the fashions of 2000 just as the Bakshi's costuming reflects that of the 1970's. :eek: I honestly don't think it will, for the average viewer, but we are all influenced by our environment. There are a number of classic examples of forgeries being discovered 50 years later because, even though the forger was basing the forgery on the art of a specific painter or ancient culture, he's influenced by his own culture, with that culture's assumptions, and when the cultural assumptions change enough, the anachronisms of the forgery are obvious.

I also think Bakshi's vision appealed to the fans of the books more than to anyone else, which is not the case with Jackson's film thus far - a lot of people see the film first, love it, and then read the books (or don't :p ), which I didn't see happening with Bakshi's. Everyone I know who really liked Bakshi's version was a fan of the books going in.

Ariel,
You've lost your swoon? :eek: Well, unlike Narya I don't have any extra to offer you, but I will say I've got a lot of angst energy to spare. I watched the trailer on the Official Site two or three times running last night, and I was getting a good teary-eyed buzz just from that. I hadn't even been watching deluby's clips of just Frodo and Sam - I was watching the whole thing. Heck, I was even choking up over Arwen. :p

I refuse to worry about you until you survive TTT unmoved. ;)

The Goonies and I share your "Sam the Stouthearted" guess. Gosh, at Imly I was doing battle for the idea that TTT would end with that scene on the Stairs of Cirith Ungoll - if it really does they'll have to carry me out of there, because I'll be too overcome to make it on my own...

Glad to hear you're still hanging in there trying to fix the red x's, deluby.

Maeglian,
I hope you don't mind if I quote a bit of your post to the Goonies - your description of Sean A and his daughter is so sweet!

Originally posted by Maeglian

Also with the prevailing religious imagery references, I wonder if there will be allusions to the crucifixion once we get as far as Frodo in Cirith Ungol; - for instance as the orcs carry him away, or by means of light and shadow effects in the tower chamber. But I rather hope not!

Totally agree, While I'm happy to discuss the posters and clips to death, if there's something obvious in that scene like the shadow of a cross or something, that would be over the top I think. I don't want to notice anything like that while involved in the film itself. Anything there had best be subtle - although really, the connections made thus far are subtle and probably wouldn't be picked up by most viewers. In the movie the shots will flick past and just resonate with the subconscious - the conscious mind is busy with the story at the time. I don't know if the artists and publicists are conscious of what they're doing (although in my experience the best marketing people know exactly what they're up to), but I do think the intent is not to connect into Christianity per se, but into a religious resonance - into the awe an icon is supposed to inspire, but not into the religious reflection I guess.

ainon,
Yikes, they're not releasing the extended DVD there? You can still get hold of it eventually, though, right? Someone here - like me :D - could always send it to you in a worst case scenario, yes? Our systems seem compatible.

Hi, Shadow! Saw you lurking here last night. :D

Sheryl

Originally posted by shilohmm
OTOH, it may turn out that the costuming and such like of PJ's version will reflect the fashions of 2000 just as the Bakshi's costuming reflects that of the 1970's.
This can happen in ways not thought of at the time, I believe. Take Westerns as an example. Westerns made during the 1950s are set in exactly the same time and culture as Westerns made during the 1980s-1990s, but look at how different the men's hairstyles are, and even the women's clothes and makeup. Look at Shane, Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid (which is, admittedly, set a bit later in history), and Young Guns.

I also think Bakshi's vision appealed to the fans of the books more than to anyone else, which is not the case with Jackson's film thus far - a lot of people see the film first, love it, and then read the books (or don't :p ), which I didn't see happening with Bakshi's. Everyone I know who really liked Bakshi's version was a fan of the books going in.
Well, in general, maybe. But there was this one kid I heard of, about 18 years old or a bit more, lived in New Zealand or somewhere like that, went to see the Bakshi movie and it drew him into reading the book. Not too surprising that two scenes in his FotR movie are obvious homages to Bakshi's, and that there are other similarities sprinkled throughout. IMHO, if the Bakshi movie did nothing else during its existence other than interest Peter Jackson in LotR, it was not made in vain.

...but I do think the intent is not to connect into Christianity per se, but into a religious resonance - into the awe an icon is supposed to inspire, but not into the religious reflection I guess.
Yes, I think the target is more the common human emotions that both tie into rather than a connection between the two. And so much care has been taken, at least in the first movie, to remove any religious elements--even of Tolkien's created religion (Elbereth, etc.)--that I'd be very surprised if they tried to [i]add any.

Later Correction: There is one place where the movie kept Tolkien's allusions to his created religion--in Gandalf's lines during his confrontation with the Balrog.
---------------------------

My kitchen sink was stopped up yesterday, which is on topic in a bizarre way. Two ways actually.

The blockage is in the drain my apartment shares with the one nextdoor. The maintenance man who came and looked at it yesterday (one reason I like to rent--a plumber on the weekend without having to pay him :) ) said it's not from anything that's been put down the drain but is from years of wear on the pipe itself. He had to get a new pipe and put it in, so in the meantime my sink contained the metallic sludge he'd cleaned out of the old pipe. And let me tell you, that stuff stunk to high heaven!

But, being an Elijah Wood fan, I knew what to do :cool: ! I didn't want to use regular air freshener, as the thought of putting a sweet smell on top of the metallic one made me gag. But I also have a can of "odor eliminator" that I brought back from my mom's a few months ago. She'd offered me her extra can, and I took it just because the blurb on the label made me laugh--it reminded me so much of Mikey :) :
Aspen Aire Odor Eliminator utilizes special oils from plants to create an environmentally safe formula that actually cancels and eliminates odors. The Aspen Aire scent will gradually disappear as the odor causing substance is attacked on a molecular level, leaving no fragrance or malodor.
And, you know what? The darn stuff works!! :cool: Gee, thanks, Mikey! :p :D

---------------------------

In addition, while the plumber was here I didn't want to go out and run errands so I was "stuck" ;) at my computer for a good part of the afternoon. I used the time to create something--maybe a monster :eek: -- that I don't know what to do with. So I'm looking for ideas.

Some innocent soul asked a couple of days ago if I hadn't said that I had more than the 22 screencaps of Weathertop. The answer, of course, is yes--the 22 are only of the sword coming out of Frodo's shoulder. When I counted last week sometime I had a total of 84 screencaps from various parts of Frodo's confrontation with the WiKi. Some overlapped and were redundant, while there were other parts of the scene I didn't have anything of. So while the plumber worked yesterday I made a series that goes from the moment Frodo puts on the Ring to the arrival of Aragorn. When necessary, they're frame-by-frame, but a lot of them didn't need to be in order to follow the action. So I have this series of screencaps that make (IMHO) quite a good "slideslow presentation" of that section of the scene. The only trouble is that the series contains 131 screencaps.

Obviously, this will not fit in my free space at Image Magician (deluby--I'd been wondering how you got all those gifs on there; I figured you'd paid for extra space :eek: which I may have to do before too long). It might fit on my website, although that has a limit, too, and I'm not entirely sure it would fit. I can try that and see what happens.

But do any of the techno-mages here have any other ideas? I sure wish there was some way to link to a folder on my hard drive rather than just one document, but I don't know any way of doing that. Or maybe someone knows of something that hasn't even entered my mind (very, very possible :confused: ).

Of course, this is all based on the supposition that other people might want to see this; I can sit here and watch it as much as I want :p ! (And, Ariel, since Frodo's on his back throughout the entire time, I don't think the "stretching" shows too badly. It mostly affects the WiKi and, let's face it, he's not much of a looker to begin with ;) .)


If it helps anyone, the "properties" for the entire folder say:
Size 1.85 MB
Size on disk 4.40 MB

I know what MB means, but I don't know why the two numbers are so different from each other. :confused:

Hi shilohmm :)

Originally posted by shilohmm
[B]
OTOH, it may turn out that the costuming and such like of PJ's version will reflect the fashions of 2000 just as the Bakshi's costuming reflects that of the 1970's. :eek: I honestly don't think it will, for the average viewer, but we are all influenced by our environment.

I have yet to see a movie that is totally timeless. Something in each always reflects it's times.



I also think Bakshi's vision appealed to the fans of the books more than to anyone else, which is not the case with Jackson's film thus far - a lot of people see the film first, love it, and then read the books (or don't :p ), which I didn't see happening with Bakshi's. Everyone I know who really liked Bakshi's version was a fan of the books going in.


Actually, I though it disturbed the book readers more than anyone. I had never read LOTR before seeing Bakshi, and I adored it, and went on to read the book... over and over... :)

Well, IMHO, it's going to be a long time before the talent comes together again as it has on PJ's version. And I mean all of the talent, from Howard and Lee to Taylor and WETA to PJ, Fran and Phillipa to Howard Shore to the actors to everyone else involved. And then there's the NZ scenery. I wonder how long Saul Zaentz's rights to the film last? I don't see another LOTR anytime soon, that's for sure. And that's OK by me. :)

Edit: I meant to say before, if you haven't looked at the little video clip of the Toronto exhibit over at TORN, I recommend it, if only for the "dead marshes" part. It looks like this is going to be a pretty spooky part of the film. And didn't Elijah say this was his favorite part of TTT?

From Tg:
But there was this one kid I heard of, about 18 years old or a bit more, lived in New Zealand or somewhere like that, went to see the Bakshi movie and it drew him into reading the book.
Hey! I have something in common with PJ! Don't tell me I've never bored you all with how I found out about LotR? Well, here goes:
I was visiting in the UK while still almost a kid and by pure coincidence ended up going to the Bakshi movie because some people we stayed with for a short while were LotR fans. I had never heard of Tolkien. My English wasn't very good at the time, so I struggled mightily to understand what was going on. I liked the beginning, the hobbits, and the elves, the black riders were scary although I never managed to distinguish them from the orcs, I thought the storyline was exciting, but............. a little more than halfway through the movie I started losing track. Who were fighting whom? Who were those shadowy riders? What was going on? Why was everything such a brownish blur? And then the film ended in the middle of..... what?

Annoyed at not understanding, I spent my meagre shillings (well, pounds) on one of the LotR paperbacks that were available in every bookstore at the time. I still have it, read to shreds, it has Bakshi's black riders in the Shire on the cover. Anyway, LotR was one of the first, if not *THE* first, full-length novel I ever read in English. I fell in love with the story. I re-read it in the translated version. I re-read it in English. I was hooked.

The only gripe I had at the time, was Frodo's age. I was a little in love with Frodo, he was such a wonderful tragic hero. And then he turned out to be ... 50 years of age!!! At my very young age back then, that seemed just too extremely *old*. :rolleyes: I think that memory is definitely one reason why I don't mind PJ's very young version of Frodo *at all*. Frodo was supposed to be *much* younger than 50 in my initial way of imagining him.

And of course, PJ's LotR is not "timeless". However, if the next 2 films are as good as FotR, then I fully believe it will remain a classic that will be loved by new audiences and new Tolkien readers over the years.

Three cheers for PJ watching Bashki's version of LOTR and then reading the novel(s)!!! If that's what led to him wanting to do all three books as movies, then he gets many cheers from me (and an extra birthday present-LOL :))

I and my sisters read the book first and then went to the movie, with high expectations and got to the end, and went "what the...????" as it finished without finishing.SOOOOO frustrating. :mad: :confused:

Sheryl -I agree that the LOTR trilogy will go down in history as three of the ageless movies of all times...in the same group as Citizen Kane, Gone with the Wind, the Star Wars trilogy etc etc :D

-and so, they should! Our "obsession" aside, the first film is an incredible adaptation of a dense and intense novel, and as our research shows, works on many levels. I don't think it is unreasonable to assume that the same high standard will be seen in the following two movies.

The biggest frustration is the waiting...is it only me, or is it worse, the closer the time gets???

viola

Maeglian, I had the same reaction you did. I loved Frodo dearly, but I could never exactly picture Frodo before the film. When I did, it was as a middle-aged (albeit short) man. I like the film version better. He has the same pure, tragic soul, but he's a lot easier on the eyes. And the suffering of the young is more poignant somehow. Film Frodo may be younger than the book, but we can safely blame it on the Ring. :D

All right... let's look at this.

Hobbits live longer than humans, right? So, a hobbit coming of age at 33 would be somewhat comparable to a human coming of age at 18 or 21 ;) - right? Hmmm... who do we know who was 18 at the beginning of the filming?

Frodo gets the ring at 33 (human equivalent of 18) - and it keeps him well preserved (some would say 'unchanged') for the next 17 years. By the time he's 50, he still looks like he's 33 (or the human equivalent of 18) – sure, he may look a bit more mature because he has seen and experienced more and has a more sophisticated bearing than someone just out of his tweens, but he could, conceivably, look like EW portrayed him.

Just for the record, I had no real impression of what Frodo looked like until Cirith Ungol and then that scene with the star glass leapt into my brain like a bolt of lightning. I KNEW what he looked like from that point on... and in some (OK, a LOT) of the scenes in FOTR, EW looks REMARKABLY like what I saw! I couldn’t have been happier when I saw him in costume for the first time. It was like they picked my brain to choose him for the role.

Ariel

Edit: LOL -> tg! What can I say? Great minds, eh? ;)

Edit: Ariel and I must have been posting at the same time--and it looks like we said a lot of the same things! End edit

Looks-wise, movie-Frodo is exactly right--and would look exactly the same as book-Frodo, who hasn't aged since the The Party so still looks just as he did the day he came of age. So the visual image doesn't have to be different at all. Mine wasn't, even though I'd had a pretty good picture in my head of Frodo for years. That's why I knew Elijah looked just like him ;) :) .

I've come to terms with the mentally and emotionally younger Frodo in the movie--I can even see why he might have been a better choice for a cimematic version. But I'd still love to have seen what the result could have been if PJ had had Elijah act someone with a 50-year-old's "insides." If anyone could have done it, it would have been him. (I did like that in one interview, he joked that it was the first time he'd played a 50-year-old, even though it wasn't really true.)

But, hey, I'd have nothing against book-Frodo as a person. A mature outlook on life and the looks of someone just entering adulthood? I think I could handle it.

Originally posted by tgshaw

But, hey, I'd have nothing against book-Frodo as a person. A mature outlook on life and the looks of someone just entering adulthood? I think I could handle it. [/B]

LOL, tg. Couldn't we all?

I got used to the film's version of Frodo pretty quickly, pretty much about the time Frodo said, "You're late"! :p What is weird is that despite being a visually oriented person, I had never tried to imagine what Tolkien's Frodo looked like, beyond a vague medieval-looking short guy. :rolleyes:

Well, no, Maeg - you never told us how you found LOTR! And it was your first full-length English book too! Although English is my second language, I can never remember not using it, but I know that special feeling of 'getting' a story through another language. :cool:

Originally posted by Maeglian
The only gripe I had at the time, was Frodo's age. I was a little in love with Frodo, he was such a wonderful tragic hero. And then he turned out to be ... 50 years of age!!! At my very young age back then, that seemed just too extremely *old*. :rolleyes:

I had that problem when I read 'The Hobbit'. I couldn't get into the story because Bilbo's so *old*! Then of course I grew to love Bilbo, and when I read LOTR, I was so mad that Bilbo wasn't the hero anymore! I had to get used to this young upstart named Frodo ... :p

I never had an image of Frodo in my mind either. I'm the sort of reader who never quite imagines everything in her mind -- which was probably how I managed to wade through all that Tom Clancy jargon. :p As for Bakshi - I was upset by the absence of an ending, and my brother and I then spent a lot of time over the next few years trying to track down a second LOTR movie, but I don't think I ever disliked Bakshi. I just shrugged and accepted that that was the LOTR movie for better or worse. At least I could see hobbits. :rolleyes: Kinda like the way I accept the cartoon adaptation for 'Watership Down' - some parts were odd, but hey, so long as I could see rabbits looking like rabbits. :D


tg -- LOL re: the Mikey experience. And I would like to see those pics, of course! :)

Blossom - glad to know that Holly's all right now, and that you'll get your SE DVD after all!

Sheryl, thanks for your offer, but that's okay. :k Fortunately I never got around to cancelling my Amazon order, but that will get here late anyway. One shop did guess that maybe the SE DVD will get here by end of November. Sigh.


Change of topic. To see what it's like to stand in the street and look up at the TTTFrodo, check this out: http://www.ice-dance.com/ttt/tttbanner-frodo.jpg (from the lilith of sherwood site)

Geek moment -- for months I'd been wondering what the make-up guy is doing to EW's hand:
http://www.frodoandsam.net/images/movie/lotrset-008.jpg

Studying the Frodo image that deluby has so wonderfully cropped and enlarged from the poster, the knuckles on Frodo's right hand look bruised, don't they? Does this mean Frodo gets to punch somebody? Frodo sure is beating down all those pansy claims, ain't he? :D


Totally, totally off-topic, but cross-celebrating each other's festivals is the kinda thing people in my country are used to doing so ... today is the Hindu Festival of Light (holiday here). To all Hindu lurkers: HAPPY DEWALI! :)

Also, the Muslim fasting month of Ramadhan begins this week. You'll probably see less of me, but I'll be lurking. Anyway, since I can never shut up you'll probably still be seeing me regardless. :p :D But just thought I'd mention it now. :)

Ainon- happy Ramadhan. Blessings. :)

Viola- come back to NZ and watch the movie with me!!!! Shall I wait for you? I will if you want me to. I have the self discipline of a tibetan monk.... (well not quite). Actually I quite like the torture of anticipation. All that worries me now is whether real life will live up to it. (still pondering feral Fro...:rolleyes: )

I actually have to admit here that Bakshi's Frodo is closer to my imagined Frodo than EW. And that the first photos I saw in local papers of EW really annoyed me: too young, too pretty. It was actually shots of Ian McK that made me want to see the movie after all. :p And the fact that TV3 kept giving us filming updates whether we wanted them or not. All that free movie promotion: PJ must have been smiling quietly the whole time.

Still: when I change my mind I really change my mind. By December I could well be the loudest admirer of feral Fro. Wish I had someone to see the movie with. I'm tired of being a lunatic on my own.:p

Am very tired http://www.imagemagician.org/images/deluby/yawn2.gifand brain not functioning, http://www.imagemagician.org/images/deluby/knockedout.gif
so just dropping off today's gifs, and I will reply to posts tomorrow. http://www.imagemagician.org/images/deluby/tired.gif

1. Frodo sees Galadriel coming down the stairs.
http://www.imagemagician.org/images/deluby5/21lorien1.gif
http://www.imagemagician.org/images/deluby5/21lorien1.gif


2. "The quest stands upon the edge of a knife" (I think)http://www.imagemagician.org/images/deluby5/24lorien4.gif


3. after "yet hope remains, while the company is true" (I think)
A half-blink there.
http://www.imagemagician.org/images/deluby6/25lorien5p.gif


4. "You will sleep in peace...."(I think)
A little mouth action there.
http://www.imagemagician.org/images/deluby6/27lorien7.gif

did I miss any of the scenes Blossom mentioned?

Oh, by the way, was watching LOTR at a friend's place earlier tonight, and as Frodo was standing by the shore at the end, I was fighting back tears when friend's mom asked: "Is he gonna throw the ring into the river?" :eek: :p :D Imagine what that comment did to me. :rolleyes: :p

Originally posted by deluby
Oh, by the way, was watching LOTR at a friend's place earlier tonight, and as Frodo was standing by the shore at the end, I was fighting back tears when friend's mom asked: "Is he gonna throw the ring into the river?" :eek: :p :D Imagine what that comment did to me. :rolleyes: :p
LOL!! She's in good company as far as having the thought! Here's Sam in "The Breaking of the Fellowship":
But Mr. Frodo, he knows he's got to find the Cracks of Doom, if he can. But he's afraid. Now it's come to the point, he's just plain terrified. That's what his trouble is. Of course he's had a bit of schooling, so to speak -- we all have -- since we left home, or he'd be so terrified he'd just fling the Ring in the River and bolt. But he's still too frightened to start. And he isn't worrying about us, either: whether we'll go along with him or no. He knows we mean to. That's another thing that's bothering him. If he screws himself up to go, he'll want to go alone. Mark my words! We're going to have trouble when he comes back. For he'll screw himself up all right, as sure as his name's Baggins.

Lovely gifs, deluby. One of Sir Ian M's comments when talking about what a perfect choice Elijah was for playing Frodo, was that the hardest thing for an actor to show is "pure, unalloyed goodness." The innocence in those eyes during this scene takes my breath away. And is there possibly a glimmer of hope in them, too--that he's found someone with enough power to "make things all right again" after the loss of Gandalf, even though she startles him some?

Originally posted by Cadmo
Still: when I change my mind I really change my mind. By December I could well be the loudest admirer of feral Fro. Wish I had someone to see the movie with. I'm tired of being a lunatic on my own.:p

I hope you change your mind about feral Frodo, too! But if not, well... we can agree to disagree!:cool:

And about having someone to see the movie with: well, having someone can be either a blessing or a curse, just depending... I saw FOTR 4 out of 5 times with hubby, which was wonderful! However, neither one of us would dare go without the other, and on that fifth time I went, I actually asked him if it would be okay with him if I went! He was sweet enough to say 'yes.'

But that's not the worst part. Hubby actually told me that he would be willing to go to a midnight showing of TTT (if there is one), or to the first matinee on opening day. The catch is that he may or may not be in town, and we won't know until the date is almost upon us! So, I can't make any plans to see it or buy tickets in advance, and my first viewing could be quite delayed by his travel schedule! :eek: AAAAAUUUGGH! That, my dear, causes me enough stress and angst to rival Frodo's! :p The anticipation is killing me, but the anxiety of not knowing when I'll get to see it is truly doing me in!


Ah well. On to other, more pleasant thoughts. Deluby, wonderful Lothlorien gifs! Almost had a little swoonage there for a couple of them. Don't tell anybody! ;)

deluby: I am glad to see that you are able to continue to post those wonderful animations. Bless you! :)

Now if I can just tear my eyes away from the screen...

Originally posted by BunnieBugs
And about having someone to see the movie with: well, having someone can be either a blessing or a curse, just depending...
I saw FotR 21 out of 22 times (yes, really :rolleyes: --did someone out there say I need a life :eek: ?) by myself. I'm sure a major reason I got there so often was that I didn't have to plan around anyone else's schedule--sometimes it's hard to work those things out ahead of time. My second viewing was with another Tolkienite. She was taking final exams that week and couldn't go to the movie until after her last exam, late afternoon on the 19th, so we made plans to see it together then. But that didn't stop me from going to the midnight showing the night before--let me tell you, it's hard to feel alone in a theater full of Tolkien lovers :) :) ! (And the countdown on good old Imladris was even more exciting--it was like New Year's Eve watching people report in as the time zones got closer and closer, until it was my turn to type, "I'm leaving for the theater now!") I'd never been to an opening midnight showing for a movie before--and I expect to only do it two more times in my life--so I'll be in my seat at 12:01 on December 18 unless an emergency comes up. I've had the date claimed as a vacation day ever since it was announced (us old folks can't stay out til 4 am and then work the next day--besides, I might want to go again :) ).

It turned out to be a good thing that I'd made plans to see the movie again within 24 hours. Like a lot of people who knew the book pretty well, I had to see the movie a number of times before I could really enjoy it as a separate entity. After just that second viewing, I liked it much better than after the first, and I could kind of tell it would get even better--which it did! Both of us who saw it that afternoon have had most of our subsequent viewings on our own--we've both spent our lives single, and there's nothing unusual for us in popping into a movie theater on our own when there's something we want to see.

Ah well. On to other, more pleasant thoughts. Deluby, wonderful Lothlorien gifs! Almost had a little swoonage there for a couple of them. Don't tell anybody! ;)
Ooohhh, *sniff* -- To me he looks so vulnerable and childlike in that scene, that I just want to hug him and tell him everything's going to be okay--which, of course, it isn't... :( *sniff*

---------------------

Anyone think NewLine is putting out these posters just to mess with our minds? I was getting these two ready to email to a friend, and realized their backgrounds are very similar--Osgiliath, maybe? But the little "continuity clues" that sometimes get mentioned are of absolutely no use--in one, Frodo's wearing his coat and in the other he isn't; his hair sure looks shorter in the second one. Is this a way of telling us, "You'll just have to wait and see"?

http://www.imagemagician.com/images/tgshaw/TTT/Taiwan flag-cropped.jpg http://www.imagemagician.com/images/tgshaw/TTT/frodo143a.jpg

Whew! Sometimes those pics post bigger than they started out for some reason! That second one could be suitable for framing :p !

Edit: I had a couple of other pictures posted, too, but they came out so large that they were unclear, so I took them down (in case anyone's wondering what happened to them). Image Magician has a Beta editing program that's supposed to resize images, but so far I haven't gotten it to work--I've sent the question in to the site, as they want to know how the Beta progam's working (or not :confused: ).

Originally posted by tgshaw
Well, in general, maybe. But there was this one kid I heard of, about 18 years old or a bit more, lived in New Zealand or somewhere like that, went to see the Bakshi movie and it drew him into reading the book.

LOL! Okay, y'got me there. But I honestly don't know anyone in Real Life who even went to see Bakshi's movie who wasn't either (1) a LOTR fan, (2) a fan of movies and movie techniques (they heard of it because of the rotoscoping), or (3) someone dragged there by types one or two. I'd hazard a guess PJ fit in with type two. The LOTR fans I knew who were NOT anime fans tended to like it way better than the fans I knew who WERE anime fans - possibly because anime fans are snobs about American animation. :p The movie fan friends I knew who saw it thought the story was incoherent and just talked about the rotoscoping techniques, which they thought were a mixed bag. Nearly everyone I talked to about it fit type one or two; the type three people I talked to just grumped about getting dragged to it, but they were all grown ups fondly griping about the peculiarities of their significant other. I don't think they expected much of the movie going in, and the movie didn't change their mind, but they didn't resent it either.

We won't discuss the few purists I spoke to. :eek:

I suspect kids who were dragged to it had a completely different experience, since kids are more used to the idea that movies may seem completely incomprehensible and still be good. There were reviews at Amazon by people who'd seen it as a kid, IIRC, and a lot of them liked it and did go on to read the books.

Originally posted by tgshaw

Not too surprising that two scenes in his FotR movie are obvious homages to Bakshi's, and that there are other similarities sprinkled throughout. IMHO, if the Bakshi movie did nothing else during its existence other than interest Peter Jackson in LotR, it was not made in vain.

Can't dispute that. :D And I wouldn't have wanted to miss out on meeting Ezzie or Maeglian, either. :)

Viola,
I think the waiting is getting worse as it gets closer, too. It may be because I'm watching the trailer pretty regularly while I was behaving myself better before. deluby's gifs weakened me; it's all deluby's fault... :p

Funny you should mention the first-filmed Star Wars trilogy as a classic - I think that Star Wars and Logan's Run demonstrate how an s-f movie can be fairly timeless (although influenced by its culture) and hopelessly stuck in its times. The costumes and hairstyles in Logan's Run are seventies to the max, and it looks totally camp now (actually, I thought it looked camp the first time I saw it, but I was in the minority there ;) ). Star Wars, in contrast, looks dated more in film techniques than in costuming.

Hubby says he's awfully glad Lucas didn't have access to the effects available to PJ, because he thinks Lucas told a better story without them. Didn't think much of the much anticipated added stuff, it seems. :p I liked the bit where Han walked over Jabba's tail, but it distracted me from what was going on in the scene - I still haven't figured out how Han talked his way out of that. :rolleyes:

I agree with Bunnie on the blessing/curse aspects of having someone to see the movie with. Hubby doesn't insist on seeing the movie with me every time (good thing, because youngest wouldn't have gone for mom and dad disappearing once a week At All - she was in that clingy, don't-trust-strangers phase back then), but he does insist on seeing it with me the first time. He will let me sit through all the credits to absorb it, though, but I really like seeing a good movie alone and then driving home listening to the sound track and re-experiencing it.

With Fellowship, I saw it with him first, was blown away, saw it a couple more times by myself, then mostly eldest daughter went with me. Not only would hubby lose me for the three plus hours of the movie and transportation time - I'd come home and closet myself in the bedroom to listen to the soundtrack and reexperience it. The day was totally shot if I went to the matinee, which was my usual practice.

One time we met "Grandma Pat" there, it was great in that she really enjoyed it and wanted to talk about - but it was hard because I hadn't seen it that often and still wanted to absorb it on my own. :p

And of course if hubby didn't insist on going with me the first time for TTT I could see it sooner. We'll see how that goes, though. Maybe we can con Pat into spending the night at our house or something. She's feeling even more generous than usual toward us right now because hubby just fixed her sink. :D

Sheryl

edit:

Oh, thank you for lightening up those piccies, tg, particularly the first. I have trouble seeing stuff that's dark, myself. My glasses are getting ancient, too - I should definitely get new ones before TTT. They're a couple of years old and so scratched that they get strange reflections going when I try to watch a film. I need to get cracking on that!

Someone somewhere was griping about Frodo's proportions in the one where he's sitting leaning against the barrel - I don't notice anything odd there, it just gets the angsty vibes going nicely and I can never even remember to check that out while looking at it. :p

Sheryl

Well trying to use the quote thingy didn't work....:mad: :confused:

so... there were people who watched Bashki's version of LOTR who didn't fall into the three categories (um, well not exactly). I wanted to see it because ANY version of LOTR was worth looking at! It's only with time and a much superior version that it's obvious how more inferior the anime version was/is.

Cadmo -I CANNOT let you be a lunatic on your own!!!:D

We should continue the tradition started with FOTR...I will come back to nz and accompany you to see TTT. Although I normally prefer films on my own, like tg, if a true Tolkein lover accompanies me, I'm willing to make an exception -LOL ;)

and sheryl, the waiting is KILLING me, and I haven't downloaded any TTT trailers yet bec I've never had the time or patience to wait an hour or two (modem and telephone line)


...speaking of which, is it just me, being a complete internet novice, or have other people had the same problem. The last few days/week KD has been incredibly slow loading, and occasionally just froze on me, especially once I'd read some of the posts, and tried to post back, or read pages with lots of pictures. Am I doing something wrong or is it just my laptop???
:confused:

viola

Maeglian rushes in, breathless and in a state, having visited the harem.....

OMG! OMG! Have you peple *seen* those 2 pics posted over in the harem? One of Frodo captive with Faramir's men (sans Mithril shirt, I tell you! Seemingly sans ring, too!) and one of him holding Sting at Gollum's throat? Can we have those here too? Pretty please? Anyone?

I have to go back right now to stare some more..... But first:

Guess who has tickets to prove where she'll be on the evening of December 18? OK, so it isn't the premiere, but still.........

Pooof!

Here they are!!

Pictures removed, as apparently the publishers did not mean for them to be released yet, and are making some noise on other web sites about copyright infringement. Hopefully we will be able to replace them once the book is released.

---edit---Oops, Narya beat me. :D I'll just leave the one she missed.

Pippin at COE posted these great piccies from the new TTT Visual Companion.


edit again:
War of the ring has put all the TTT photos Pippin scaned into a gallery here: (Spoilers!!)


edit: What narya said above.

Thanks, Narya and Deluby!

Well, looking at that pic of Frodo, Gollum and Sam, I think we have absolute verification of the story often told, that PJ used Alan Lee's illustration of this event to recreate this scene. No doubt; - the only difference is that Sam has his face free. Otherwise Lee's illustration corresponds extremely well with that pic from the film.


:cool: :) :cool: :)

Wonderful pictures, screencaps and gifs, as always in this thread. How would I get through a day without my daily "fix"? Deluby, the ones from Lorien are my favorite. The soft focus creates the most beautiful pictures of EW I have ever seen. I keep getting stuck there and really have to work to pull myself away. :)


The new TTT pics are great! I definitely think this will dispel the wimpy Frodo critics. It's obvious Frodo is being physically restrained in the first one--note that no one is even touching Sam at that point. A feisty Frodo--I've been waiting for that! And this is the first time we've really seen Gollum up close, and I'm relieved at how real he looks. His skin looks a little shiny--it almost has a plastic look to it--but if I didn't know he was completely CGI I don't think I would have been able to tell. I've been worried about Gollum, and this helps to put those fears to rest a little bit.


Seven out of the ten times I saw LOTR I went alone, and I definitely enjoyed it more that way, even though the other three times were with other equally obsessed fans. I find I don't want anyone disturbing the experience in any way--I like to get totally immersed in ME and having someone talk to me, even if it's only a word or two, pulls me out of it. That said, I promised a friend I wouldn't go to TTT without her, and that won't be until the 21st. I'm going to do my best to stay away from here for those three days, but I may have to unplug my computer to accomplish that. It's going to be the longest three days of my life. :)


OT: I wrote to Walter Scott, who writes the Personality Parade in Parade Magazine (the insert in a lot of Sunday newspapers) to ask if there were any distributors on the horizon for Chain of Fools or Try Seventeen. He wrote a bit about EW and Franka Potente a few months back, and with the TTT release only weeks away maybe he'll be inclined to do some research and get an answer on that front.

Originally posted by Maeglian
Maeglian rushes in, breathless and in a state, having visited the harem.....


Breathless and in a state sums it up alright! Whew! Sheryl fans herself.

Thanks, Narya!

I expect the "sans ring" part explains both feisty Frodo and worried Sam - I suddenly envision Faramir holding the Ring on the chain a la Boromir on Carahras, while Frodo watches, and Frodo does not take it as calmly as the last time. Oooooo.

If I'm wrong there better be something equally wonderful in place of it. :D

Oh, Shadow, don't remind me! What'm I gonna do for over a week without the Faculty? I guess I could stay up into the middle of the night and monopolize the phone then, assuming the kids will sleep through it - between everyone visiting the parentals at the same time and their open house plan upstairs, there aren't many places I can stay up all night without bugging someone.

Someone would have to pull the plug on me to stay away three days, too. I really need to get serious about seeing it pretty early on if I'm gonna avoid spoilers...

Sheryl

edit:

Hm, strange - it looks like that's in Osgiliath - look at the smooth stone behind them. So Faramir and the hobbits are still at odds there? If so, PJ has really racheted up that relationship. No Gollum in that shot, though - they're at Osgiliath before the Forbidden Pool?

mumble mumble, I am not a Purist, I am not a Purist, I will let PJ do as he wants and go with the flow, I am not a Purist... So long as he gives me enough angst, that is. :D

But even with angst, if he makes either Faramir or Frodo a jerk to make it work... :mad:

Sheryl

Sheryl--I'm wondering what the heck all the Osgiliath stuff is about, too. As I said above, it's interesting that both very different posters seem to have it as their background. I just looked back at the longer-haired, coat-on poster and if he's wearing the Ring there I don't see it. (Aha!! I've got it! Faramir gave him back the Ring and then gave him a haircut! That's why he's so protective of the Ring in the "short-haired" poster. Can you imagine if that actually turns out to be true :p :D ?)

Main reason I was checking that poster was to see where the mithril shirt becomes visible. Faramir taking the Ring would go with the pictures we've seen of him holding it on his sword, etc., but the mithril shirt :confused: ? I can see why he'd want it--could probably finance the whole war with it. But he'd better not end up with it permanently, or we'll lose that great scene at the Black Gate in RotK! :eek: or even :mad: !

It had slipped my mind :eek: that the TTT Visual Companion was due out in November, and I don't think I'd ever heard the release date. The "official" release seems to be tomorrow (Tuesday).

SPOILER WARNING!


So PJ's plan is beginning to make itself evident:
Faramir and his men meet up with Frodo and Sam. The Ring slips out from its hiding place under Frodo's shirt, OR Faramir rips Frodo's shirt open for whatever reason (as we have heard rumors), exposing the Ring. Faramir then lifts it up with the tip of his sword (note old pic from months ago), and takes the Ring on its chain, slipping it over Frodo's head. Frodo becomes very angry and agitated, surprising Sam with the fierceness of his reaction (latest pic, Frodo is not wearing the Ring, his shirt is open, Sam's looking at him astonished).

Not book canon at all, but it could work.

As for the posters: though they're gorgeous, I wouldn't read too much into the backdrop. Now the movie stills provide important clues, but not the posters.Though I'd give a lot to have one of those theater banners, which New Line apparently has not put up for sale.

Some random thoughts....

One or both of the posters could be poses specifically for promotion purposes, I think. Which could explain the seeming same-scene difference in hair and clothes. Especially the one where he has his coat on and Sting lifted seems posed to me. But anyway, the background must surely have been added later in both posters - it's almost exactly the same background.

Why they want Frodo to be continually portrayed with the crumbling ruins of a great city in the background is anybody's guess. (Could it possibly be.... symbolic? :eek: :D )

As for so much happening at Osgiliath, well, maybe Henneth Anun, the forbidden pool and Osgiliath have been "rolled into" one place? No reason why a great old city couldn't have some caves and a waterfall around, when you think about it in a non-purist way. (Hard as *that* is.... :rolleyes: )

That could fit with Goldenberry's speculation, too. That scene in the TTT preview where a sword lifts the ring away from Frodo's errhm... well, throat :o, could very easily be the one immediately preceding the restrained-and-feisty Fro scene in this new picture. And what goes on could be just what Goldenberry describes.

But is Sam really looking at Frodo? It seems to me that he is worried, alright, but might be looking at the same someone or something that Frodo is grinding his teeth at? Which in all likelihood is Faramir; - with the ring?? :eek: Forget all about "I do not wish to see it, or touch it, or know more of it than I know (which is enough)...."


Speculation is such fun!! :)

Edit:
Anyone else having a problem with Gollum's skin colour? I think that's one significant impact Bakshi has made on me: I expect Gollum to have grey skin, not pinkish.

I'm wondering how I'll ever stay halfway sane during TTT (not to mention RotK) when a couple of admittedly extraordinary Fro pics can send me reeling and posting away like this.

Originally posted by Maeglian
Well, looking at that pic of Frodo, Gollum and Sam, I think we have absolute verification of the story often told, that PJ used Alan Lee's illustration of this event to recreate this scene. No doubt; - the only difference is that Sam has his face free.

Ah, great minds think alike, Maeglian -- I just posted a similar comment in the Harem thread. :p Since I've got them, I'll post the two pictures together here as well so that Facultiers can compare them.

http://www.imagemagician.com/images/gladys/leelike.jpg

http://gilda.it/gandalf/immagini/lee/gollum.jpg

Originally posted by shilohmm
Hubby says he's awfully glad Lucas didn't have access to the effects available to PJ, because he thinks Lucas told a better story without them. Didn't think much of the much anticipated added stuff, it seems. :p I liked the bit where Han walked over Jabba's tail, but it distracted me from what was going on in the scene - I still haven't figured out how Han talked his way out of that. :rolleyes:

OME!!! YESSS!!! Thank you, Sheryl, for saying that!!! I HATED the additional stuff Lucas put in and would pay REAL money for an unadulterated copy of the original film - sadly, these are few and far between.

The new stuff in SW doesn't fit, doesn't suit and sticks out like a sore thumb... but for some reason, I have little fear the new stuff in FOTR will leave me with the same feelings. I expect differences, a different feel, pace, etc... but because PJ also changed some of the scenes themselves, I think it will feel like a different film - what a clever man you are PJ!

Originally posted by Viola Took
...speaking of which, is it just me, being a complete internet novice, or have other people had the same problem. The last few days/week KD has been incredibly slow loading, and occasionally just froze on me, especially once I'd read some of the posts, and tried to post back, or read pages with lots of pictures. Am I doing something wrong or is it just my laptop???
:confused:

I think you have been falling victim to deluby's .gifs... but they are quite worth loading if you can! When a page has particularly large files embedded in them, it can take a long while for the page to load, especially if you have a slow connection. Try setting your KD options to "Don't Load Images" (or whatever it's called) and you should be able to load the page without problems.

About movie viewings... I saw the film the first time with the SO... our earliest showing was 11:00 am - no midnight showings in the boonies! - but I would have gone to one if there had been! The rest of my 15 viewings were mostly alone (and a couple of times with one of my kids) - I would go into the theater around the kids' nap time, get them settled in the stroller or my lap and watch them konk out by the end of the Long Expected Party... :p - it is much easier to get three hours to spare if you don't have to coordinate with someone else.

Oh, Gladys! Again, I thank you! That's the pic that did in my undies! :p I just ADORE his face in that shot! It's cute, and fierce, and childlike and dangerous and compelling all in one! I look at the comparasion of the two images (Lee's and the film's)and it amazes me how GORGEOUS EW is in that! I thought the shot from the long preview trailer was nice... (and BTW, does anyone know where I can get a good copy of THAT one?) but, WOW!!!

I was planning on doing a spliced video of all trailer pieces as I assume they will run in the movie - or at least the Frodo pieces and I want to put some of the pieces from that first trailer in it. I have a bad copy, but would like a good one. Unfortunately it's NOT exactly the same as the DVD trailer - the DVD trailer is missing this scene for one, and I think there were some other differences too.
http://web.kcnet.org/arielshouse/TTTFroawakened.jpg

Ariel

Well, now I know where I'll be on the day that Visual Companion comes out: at my local bookstore, buying a copy. Seriously, the pics look great, even Gollum. It definitely looks like PJ has a different take on the Frodo/Faramir confrontation. But I don't mind. No one ever called me a purist when it came to expanding Frodo's scenes. :D Although if Frodo starts to detour with Faramir all the way back to Gondor, I may get a little suspicious. ;)

But what I really want to know is, does this pic of Frodo, one of the first of the TTT Frodo pics, come before or after "fraught Frodo" on the previous page?

http://www.warofthering.net/movies/photos/ttt/people/frodo/temps/image6.shtml

I am stunned at the similarities between the Allan Lee illustration and that latest still! It's amazing -- right down to how Frodo holds the sword, and the fact that he's doing it left-handed. Does anyone remember whether the book specifies the left hand (I don't have my copy handy)? Because otherwise, it's just bizarre that both of those pictures show it that way...

Originally posted by Louise
But what I really want to know is, does this pic of Frodo, one of the first of the TTT Frodo pics, come before or after "fraught Frodo" on the previous page?


There's another one in this series, too, the one where Frodo and Sam are almost holding hands, which looks to me to be right close with the one Louise put up (I have it on my hard drive but being hopelessly inept don't know how to show it to y'all). I don't know about the rest of you, but to me the one Louise posted and the holding hands one look like "wary anticipation", where Frodo is worried but hoping for the best, whereas in the new one he looks like he's decided they're in the hands of the enemy.

With that fold in the page it's hard for me to tell who Sam is looking at, Frodo or (presumably) Faramir, but he still looks concerned while Frodo looks beyond that.

Then again, his expression in the two matching ones could be fear of what he heard after he and Faramir had words...

I want to know if this happens before or after the clip from the DVE where he's saying the Ring can only be used to destroy, or whatever that is. And then there's whether it's before or after the Forbidden Pool, and the mysterious sound track title the Breath of Life, and and and...

And I'm going to bed before hubby strangles me.

Sheryl

Originally posted by BunnieBugs
Does anyone remember whether the book specifies the left hand (I don't have my copy handy)? Because otherwise, it's just bizarre that both of those pictures show it that way... [/B]

Yes, the book does specify left-handed, but for pulling back Gollum's head, not holding the sword:
"Things would have gone ill with Sam, if he had been alone. But Frodo sprang up, and drew Sting from its sheath. With his left hand he drew back Gollum's head by its thin lank of hair, stretching its long neck, and forcing his pale venemous eyes to stare up at the sky."

BTW, I have removed the links to the pictures above in my post, and suggest that others do the same in theirs, as the publisher is making a stink to several web site owners regarding copyright infringement, as these pictures are from a book that will not be released for...24 hours.

Loiuse, I believe the picture you linked to comes before the new one. In yours, they are just starting to turn to look at (Faramir??), and in the new one they are fully turned, and reacting to someone just out of camera range, but in the same location they were looking at originally.

Shilomm: I think the order is the above picture first, then the one "holding hands", then the "fraught Fro" one that has been removed. But notice that Frodo's shirt and cloak are closed in the first one, then slightly more open in the second, and then wide open with the ring obviously missing in the third. I think that between the first two and the third, Faramir must have noticed the ring chain under Frodo's shirt, pulled it out with his sword, and confiscated it. This is why Frodo is so distraught in the third pic and subsequent scene in trailer where he says his "The Ring will not save Gondor. It can only destroy" speech. Well, I'm too tired for further research tonight. I just spent 20 minutes looking for the "ring on the sword" pic and couldn't find it. I could have sworn that the latter pic was in the cave or somewhere inside. Oh well, time enough to line up the pics when they are "published" and we can put them side-by-side without fear of nassssty old publisherssssss. Good night.

Sheryl, is this the one you're looking for? (It's not a very good copy, and I'm too lazy to fix the color and upload it to the web tonight, so I'll do it the easy way and link to it on my hard drive.):)

Originally posted by Narya Celebrian
Sheryl, is this the one you're looking for?

That's the one, Narya - thanks. And I grabbed the piccies that were due to be pulled down - per dw's warning in the Harem. First pictures I've added there in a looong time.

Louise, my problem with your theory is that the first three pics are in Osgiliath (it seems like - you can see cut stone behind Faramir's men), while the "The Ring will not save Gondor" is in the boonies with trees in the background.

I think. I should probably go check, but today looks really busy. The kids have three things to go to, plus hubby and I have great hopes of voting somewhere in there. Tuesdays are going to be monstrous all month.

Ariel,
I was skeptical about the added stuff long before we got around to seeing it, and seeing it justified my skepticism, I thought. We still have a copy of SW without it - two copies, actually, we'd be willing to sacrifice the full screen one if you want it because we've got the wide screen version too. If he EVER releases a DVD :rolleyes:. we have great hopes that it'll offer the original release version as an option.

The spliced video idea sounds cool!

Sheryl

Ariel--If you can wait another week :eek: you should be able to get a good copy of the "sneak peek" trailer right on the SE DVD (is that the one you're looking for a good copy of--the one that ran at the end of FotR for a few weeks?). I knew I'd seen these instructions somewhere, so went looking. The first reference I found was to Digital, so I suspect deluby might have posted a link somewhere along the line--but this morning I found the info first at "the blue place" so just did a copy and paste from there since I'm a bit pressed for time. The reason the person who started this particular thread couldn't get the easter eggs to work is, of course, the fact that the instructions are for the SE DVD, not the one released in August, which was the version they were trying to use :rolleyes: :

DVD Easter Eggs
Digital Bits had info on the FOTR easter eggs.

Here are the instructions... But I haven't been able to make this work. Has anyone tried and been successful?

Disc One

To access the MTV Movie Awards spoof of The Council of Elrond scene with Jack Black and Sarah Michelle Gellar (3 min, 4x3, DD 2.0), go to the last page of the scene selections menu area and select 'The Council of Elrond'. Then navigate "down" to reveal a hidden Ring symbol. Press "Enter".

Disc Two

To access The Two Towers sneak peek trailer that was shown briefly in theaters at the end of The Fellowship of the Ring (4 min, 16x9, DD 5.1), go to the last page of the scene selections menu area and select the number "48" on the far right-hand side of the screen. Then navigate "down" to reveal a hidden Two Towers symbol. Press "Enter".

On the Alan Lee painting--that certainly has to be the one in the oft-told story of PJ holding up shooting while someone went and got a copy of it. IIRC, in the first speculation about the pic of Frodo with Sting in the TTT preview, it was pretty much decided that either (1) the pic was reversed or (2) Frodo was holding Sting in his left hand because PJ had been copying the character positions in this painting. Looks like #2 wins the contest :) . Now why Alan Lee reversed Frodo's hands from the book description... :confused: , unless maybe for composition reasons he wanted the characters facing in those particular directions?

(P.S. The Visual Companion book should be in the stores today, I believe.)

Louise, this the one you mean?

http://www.bagendinn.com/images/A-D/dvd26.jpg

And this is Frodo and Sam in the cave, with Faramir(?) coming at 'em

http://www.bagendinn.com/images/andrastedvd10.jpg


Thanks so, so much for the new TTT pics! It took a looooong time for my browser to load the pics this morning (and as a result I was late for work :p ) but I got 'em! I'm so glad I checked in here in the morning - I usually only get on-line at night, but something made me come in here early today. :)

I'm as breathlessly excited about the pics as everyone, and I hate to be the wet blanket here ... but remember these scenes may not necessarily be what we'll see in the film. Could be someone snapping a pic while they're rehearsing, or an alternate angle of a scene.

Okay, enough of being practical. :rolleyes: Let's get on with the speculation! :D I think Sam is looking at Frodo there -- ooh, I wonder what Frodo's saying? And AngryFrodo about to stab Gollum is an incredible sight, isn't he? Wow. No wonder Gollum cowers down before him in those post-Taming scenes we see in the trailer.

You're doing a video of trailer scenes, Ariel? That'll be something to look forward to! :cool:

TTT movie viewings - I think I'd rather go alone, and as often as I can. I mostly went alone for FoTR, but did 'team up' with different groups of people as I attempted to spread the LoTR cheer around ... none of my RL friends seemed to experience the same magic though, and most of them turned out to be quite annoying anyway by saying things like, "But he has such hairy feet!" :rolleyes: I do plan to try my best to get to see it on opening day, but I'm not too hopeful. :o

As for Star Wars ...

Ariel:
I HATED the additional stuff Lucas put in and would pay REAL money for an unadulterated copy of the original film - sadly, these are few and far between.

I would have loved to have the original films too. But it's kind of too late for me, in a way. After SW Ep 2, I accepted the fact that I'd rather take the original trilogy as the 'real' SW and think of Eps 1 - 3 as 'the interesting tale of R2-D2 and C3PO when they were young - before the cruel memory wipe that made 'em forget Ewan McGregor and their ownership by the spoilt brat who would be Darth Vader'. :p I watched the original trilogy enough times while I was growing up to still remember practically every scene anyway, and so that'll do for me. I'm not planning to spend any more money on SW (although sucker that I am, I will watch SW Ep 3 when that comes out).


edit Nothing majorly important. Just a bookmark (picked it up from BagEndInn: http://www.imagemagician.com/images/ainon/LoTR/frodobm.jpg

I think I want it. And I've never even been a bookmark user. :p

Also, a review of Brian Sibley's 'Making of the Movie Trilogy' (http://www.iansmith.co.uk/lotr/reviews/MakingOfTrilogy.htm). Here's the bit that makes it an on-topic thing to mention. Quote from the review: ... cast comments on the performance of Elijah Wood, ... . I *know* I want this book. :D

Originally posted by ainon
As for Star Wars ...I'm not planning to spend any more money on SW (although sucker that I am, I will watch SW Ep 3 when that comes out).

Not surprising but I agree with your assessment completely! (Must be something about angst lovers, eh?) Although you are obviously braver than I because after the third movie came out, (Jedi) I was so completely disappointed that I couldn't bring myself to see it more than twice. I have never even seen the other two. I LOVED the first movies... and I just couldn't bring myself to see what Lucas did to that world I loved. I am sure I will see the other movies someday, but it will be long after the hype is over and the crowds have gone away.

I am ever so grateful that PJ is NOT GL... and that he cares more about the story than making a few bucks... and that he has put his care into more than just the special effects. http://web.kcnet.org/arielshouse/Smileys/notworthy.gif <- PJ

Ariel

SPOILERS FOR SE DVD





Well, I had time to look a bit more (well, yeah, I didn't really have time, but we know how that goes :rolleyes: ). This still isn't the link I was looking for, but it has another incredible review of the SE DVD set, if you can stand it :eek: !

http://www.thedigitalbits.com/reviews2/lotrfellowship4disca.html

Being so worked up about a DVD is a new experience for me--I wasn't all that excited about the theatrical version coming out, and wasn't even upset that I couldn't get it for a couple of weeks after release, because I'd been able to see the movie in the theater almost up to the time the DVD came out. With the SE, I feel more like I did before the movie itself was released! There's so much we haven't seen (and heard).

This is a two-part review, and I'm not going to post much of it as it's just too long, but here's the statement most on-topic for this thread (old news, but, well, some people need convincing ;) ):
While Elijah Wood might have seemed an unlikely choice to play Frodo Baggins at first, he proves in this film that he's more than up to the task, infusing the Hobbit with the perfect measure of pathos and humanity.

The reviewer's descriptions of the actors' commentary and the one by PJ and the screenwriters just make me want to listen to them even... more... than... I... did... :eek: If that's possible. The actors' because it sounds like so much fun and the other because the reviewer indicates it does really talk about why certain decisions were made about the material.

The fourth disc (the second disc of special features) starts out very hobbit-centric :) . PJ introduces the previous disc, giving a description of what's found there, but Elijah does the same for the fourth disc. Then the first feature on it is the "Day in the Life of a Hobbit." After that is "Fellowship of the Cast" which, of course, talks about more than the hobbits (the one anecdote mentioned in the review is about Sean Bean), but we should certainly see and hear a lot of them.

I'll just post one more paragraph, because it's something we talked about here. I'm happy that I was right about this one :) --not because of being right but because it's just so incredibly... everything:

Something that is very much worth noting here is that Peter Jackson, New Line and the DVD producers at Kurtti-Pellerin have already begun planning the DVD releases of the next two films, The Two Towers and The Return of the King. There will indeed be 2-disc theatrical and 4-disc extended versions of each film. More importantly, an overall DVD design philosophy has been worked out for the entire Lord of the Rings Trilogy, so that each 2-disc set will complement the other 2-disc sets, and each 4-disc set will likewise build on the other 4-disc sets. What that means, is that a few years from now, when all of the films are on DVD, you'll be able watch them all straight through without seeing lots of overlapping material. You'll ultimately have a more complete and thorough viewing experience.

If they can pull this off... Film history without a doubt, even if some people won't be able to admit that right away (it's just fantasy, you know :rolleyes: ). My impression of PJ and crew is that when they say they're going to do something they actually do it (unlike the 9-movie series that got dropped to 6, with quality going down along the way). So I'm really hoping for this.

Several times the reviewer comments about how everyone who was involved in the project is so involved and enthusiastic throughout the whole presentation. From the fantastic reviews the SE DVD is getting, I'd say the whole LotR "family" is continuing what they've been doing all along: showing everybody else the right way to make movies. :k

Hi guys,

I'm feeling a bit down just now - have just been visiting Elijahfan.com - I'm a member of the boards there - and one of the girls from the boards, Lily, just passed away as the result of a terminal illness. It is terrible, she was only 13 years old :( I never knew Lily personally but from the things other people were saying about her she was a lovely person who will be terribly missed :(



Thanks, tg, for the SE DVD stuff - I can't wait! Tell me, does anyone know if the content for the US DVDs and those available in other countries (ie UK!) will be different? Also check out this bit from the link tg gave http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htforum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=101821 oohh I can't wait!

I was feeling seriously deprived as I'd just been over at CoE, in the 'new pictures' thread, where everyone was raving about those new TTT photos only to find they'd been removed! Then I came here and they'd been removed from here too! But....I found a couple of them at another site - one of F&S with Faramir's men and the Taming of Smeagol!!! No doubt they will be removed soon though. Just read Narya's post there - if the book is coming out soon will the pictures all go back up? I hope so!

I hope I don't sound to dozy but what is Osgiliath? I can't remember it in the books - does it have another name?

Better go for dinner now!

(((((Hugs)))))

L x

((((((Luthiea))))))


Originally posted by Luthiea
I hope I don't sound to dozy but what is Osgiliath? I can't remember it in the books - does it have another name?


All I could remember was that it was ruins on the Anduin (not that I could remember the name of the river :rolleyes: ). I can't find my favorite obscure LOTR facts website (why the heck didn't I save the address?), but I did dig this up:

OSGILIATH
Osgiliath was the original capital of Gondor before it was destroyed in the Third Age and replaced with Minas Tirith. Osgiliath was situated between the two towers on the river Anduin.

And this:

In the books, Osgiliath (citadel of the stars) was situated between Minas Ithil -Tower of the Rising Moon (later Minas Morgul) and Minas Anor-Tower of the Setting Sun (later Minas Tirith). It was the chief city in Gondor, the city of the King, and had a river flowing through the midst of it. It was attacked over and over, burnt to the ground, and lay in ruin for many years, but at the very end, was rebuilt and inhabited once again. It seemed a fitting testiment to the power of good over evil, and winning out in the end against seemingly insurmountable odds.

SPOILER (has anyone here not read the books? I'm afraid I'm sloppy with book spoilers.) Highlight to read.


I thought I remembered that Faramir drops in there after meeting (and releasing) Frodo and Sam, but if so he just mentions it and we don't go there with him IIRC.

ainon,

Thanks for the piccies!

Came back to post because I forgot to say - I was half asleep last night, after watching Fellowship (sort of - the kids were "watching" it with me :rolleyes: ), got to thinking about another shot I've never figured out - the one where Arwen gets the scratch in her cheek while racing the Nazgul. And I imediately wondered if PJ's going to use the same technique when Frodo's in the tower of Cirith Ungol. :eek:

ainon, I think I'm now officially sicker than you. :p

Sheryl

edit:

I just realized what's missing from the Extended DVD - a blooper reel! Think we'll ever get one?

Sheryl

Originally posted by shilohmm

Highlight to read.



Sheryl, I don't know how many here opted for the blue Imladris background, but your "spoiler" jumped right out at me on my blue background. :D Not that I mind spoilers... :p I'd be interested in knowing how many do have the blue background. The white is too hard on my eyes.

I'll bet they'll save a blooper reel for the final movie, or for the final extended version. But that's so far away! :eek:

The following has book spoilers, but anything about the movie is pure guessing and speculation--



In the book, the most important thing about Osgiliath is that it's the place where the Gondorians are trying to keep the bad guys from crossing the river. When Faramir arrives in Minas Tirith, he's coming from a big battle there. He doesn't take Frodo and Sam with him in the book, but it's actually not too far out of their way--when they stand at the crossroads, ready to turn east, Osgiliath is to the west.

So--Speculation--Maybe Faramir will be in more of a hurry in the movie (which would certainly fit with the way things were played out in the first one!) so rather than question Frodo, etc., in Ithilien, he says, "Bring the hobbits to Osgiliath," and whatever happens there :confused: takes place. Besides possibly giving F&S the chance to be in a battle, that could also pretty much knock out the entire chaper of "Journey to the Crossroads," and the Gondorians and the hobbits could very easily just set out in opposite directions on the same road that runs through the destroyed city. (BTW, the Gondorians lose the battle there, so are in retreat when they head west to Minas Tirith. This could also make things interesting for our two not-too-tall heroes, if they're in the city when the good guys are losing, and retreating away from their destination.)

This would throw the timing off a bit from the book, but we saw enough of that in FotR, too, to know that doesn't mean it won't happen. For angst lovers, the biggest fear (well, for me, anyway) would be the loss of Frodo watching the WiKi and his army cross the pass. That's the army Faramir and company are fighting in Osgiliath in the book. So in the movie either the WiKi goes through the pass quite some time before the hobbits get there, or Faramir's fighting a different enemy in Osgiliath than he is in the book.

Taking the hobbits to Osgiliath could also make Denethor even more upset with Faramir than he is in the book--knowing that the Ring had been so close and Faramir (it seems) even had it in his possession. In the book, we don't meet Daddy Denethor until RotK, and Faramir doesn't come in from the battle at Osgiliath til then. So maybe the TTT movie will follow Frodo and Sam east and we'll just see Faramir start off for Minas Tirith. -- Does anyone know if Denethor has shown up on any casting lists for TTT? We haven't seen any pictures of him, so I'm suspecting we won't see him until RotK.

Since the Henneth Annun set was shown at the Toronto exhibit, and The Forbidden Pool is on the soundtrack, it seems those should be in the movie somehow, but I wouldn't know quite where/when to place them.

((((Luthiea)))) I'm sorry to hear about Lily. :(

Tg, what you write seems plausible. I don't know whether Denethor (Noble?) is on the cast listings, it's worth checking out. But whatever the *sequence* of events in the Faramir scenes, I am even more curious about the *mood* and intensity of those scenes.

A mix of spoilers and speculation follows.....


I've been thinking through the various trailer and preview and picture spoilers we have for Frodo and Sam's interaction with Faramir. It's quite a lot, really:

- "Feral" and desperate Frodo on the move with Faramir's men, trying frantically to explain (to Faramir?) that the Ring cannot save Gondor.
- Frodo and Sam waiting in a cave, Sam looking protective and Frodo looking tired and cold while leaning against some barrels; - they look like they are prisoners there.
- Sam and Frodo getting up from the cave floor in a hurry while Faramir advances on them with sword drawn. (probably the same cave, but I can't see the barrels there, I think.)
- The sword catching and lifting the ring hanging around Frodo's neck.
- Frodo looking angelic and wistful in Osgiliath, when a mysterious arm reaches out towards him.
- Sam and Frodo being surrounded by and then physically restrained by Faramir's men, Frodo looking worried at first and then completely frantic and angry; - while Faramir apparently has taken the ring from Frodo (?). Probably in Osgiliath too.
- Frodo swordfighting to the point where he seems to be completely losing it, also in Osgiliath.
- Faramir fighting / firing arrows in Osgiliath.


Did I forget any? Anyway, all of this points towards several very, very tense scenes. Frodo and Sam's stay with Faramir definitely seems to have been both extended, intensified and altered significantly when compared to the book. That is, if all of it is actually included in the final theatrical version of the film............. Ainon is of course right in pointing out that may not be the case.

Still, I think my guess about all of this is that we will see a Faramir who starts out almost where his brother left off, at first desperately wanting the ring once he learns of it, and then slowly coming around to becoming the noble character he is in the books; - in a way we may get to see Faramir doing Boromir's development in reverse. If he wants the ring at first, but struggles with the decision, Frodo and Sam's prolonged and seemingly unwilling stay with Faramir makes sense. Faramir has control over the ring as long as he has control over the ring bearer.

But this doesn't explain how Faramir learns of the ring in the first place. Does Sam "put his foot in his mouth" early on? And this also completely leaves out what happens to Gollum. The forbidden pool is in, as tg points out. And herbs and stewed rabbit is in too, from that previous interview with SA. I do hope Sam gets to see an oliphaunt!

I am soooo looking forward to finding out what really happens. Only one and a half month to go.

I also have a confession of sorts to make. :o I used to think a little bit of TTT as the film where Frodo and Sam climb around in a lot of rocks, to quote EJW. TTT would be reasonably OK, but all the *really* good angsty Frodo stuff would come in Rotk; - Shelob, Cirith Ungol, tormented Frodo slowly breaking down and succumbing to the ring.....

But now I must admit I am *completely* and utterly captivated by the fiery, frantic, feisty, feral Fro of TTT. :o

Desperate, wild-eyed, dishevelled, swordwielding Frodo..... :cool: Those latest 2 pics sent me reeling with anticipation. This is going to be *so* awesome! I can't wait !!! :rolleyes: What a contrast to the doe-eyed and innocent Frodo of FotR!
(Although there will be doe-eyed scenes in TTT, too.)

Well, enough of that. (This can't possibly be what you'd call *subtle*, Sheryl? :D )


Sheryl, I seem to remember reading somewhere that PJ has said a blooper section would run so contrary to the serious tone of the film and the vision they were creating, that they'd chosen not to do it, at least not for FotR. I don't remember where I read that though, so I can't vouch for the veracity.

And all 3 films will have extended version DVDs?
I think that's fabulous, but I wouldn't mind winning the lottery. :rolleyes:

tg, I skipped most of the stuff you wrote about the SE DVD, but that second quote about the future DVD releases jumped out at me and I went ahead and read it. And it has made me one happy camper, let me tell you! So, thanks for that! It made my day. Now I've got stuff to look forward to for a good two years! :D

I just realized what's missing from the Extended DVD - a blooper reel! Think we'll ever get one? My initial reaction is: "NOOOOOOO!! I don't want a blooper reel! Talk about taking away the magic!" Upon further consideration, I bet I will change my mind by the time the third DVD comes out -- maybe even sooner.

When FOTR came out, I didn't want to watch any "making of" shows, read too many interviews, or even see any of the actors in other roles or in interviews. I wanted my LOTR movie all isolated and perfect in order to preserve the magic. (It used to freak me out to see Elwood as his sweet, geeky self instead of as Frodo!) Anyway, that's changed drastically over time, but not until I'd had plenty of time to absorb the film and become intimately familiar with it. I expect the same thing to happen with the next two films, and by the time the last DVD (*whimper!*) comes out, I'll be ready for some of that blooper stuff.

Originally posted by Maeglian
Still, I think my guess about all of this is that we will see a Faramir who starts out almost where his brother left off, at first desperately wanting the ring once he learns of it, and then slowly coming around to becoming the noble character he is in the books; - in a way we may get to see Faramir doing Boromir's development in reverse. If he wants the ring at first, but struggles with the decision, Frodo and Sam's prolonged and seemingly unwilling stay with Faramir makes sense. Faramir has control over the ring as long as he has control over the ring bearer.
...and has control over the Ring-bearer as long as he has control of the Ring.

Will have to watch for whether anyone besides Frodo actually touches the Ring itself in TTT. That was so carefully avoided in FotR that the screenplay writers must have considered it pretty significant.

PJ does seem big on character arcs, doesn't he? More so than JRRT, I think, at least when it comes to "minor" characters. Faramir has a lot happen to him in the book, but he doesn't really seem to change much. Since even in the book, Frodo is put very much on his guard by Faramir's physical resemblance to his brother, why not up the ante by having the resemblance "more than skin deep"? IMHO, that would be a very interesting way of developing the character.

I also have a confession of sorts to make. :o I used to think a little bit of TTT as the film where Frodo and Sam climb around in a lot of rocks, to quote EJW. TTT would be reasonably OK, but all the *really* good angsty Frodo stuff would come in Rotk; - Shelob, Cirith Ungol, tormented Frodo slowly breaking down and succumbing to the ring.....
Even just recently (maybe in this thread??) I read a quote from PJ saying that the real action in TTT is in the west, with Frodo & Sam basically "slogging toward Mordor" or some such expression. Think he's trying to put us off our guard?

I'm still less worried about TTT than I was/am about FotR and RotK, as I don't think it has as much Frodo material that could be seriously screwed up as the other two. But these latest pictures have definitely gotten me more excited about it!!

umm, what everybody said. :p
My brain has been all mushy for the past few days, new pictures keeps coming out, new books coming out tomorrow, SE DVD one week from today, TTT about one month and half away. God, this is killing me! Can't concentrate at all. Now I'm the kind of newbie that didn't read LOTR until the movie came out, and then falling in love with it completely. So this is the first time I'm anticipating something like this. At first I was kicking myself for missing all the excitement last time, but now I think I'm glad I didn't have to endure the long wait and anxiety. I don't know if I could survive that. Hopefully next year I will be more "experienced" and won't be running around like a headless chicken while trouting boyfriend for teasing me mercilessly. :rolleyes: :p
Have you ever had one of those days when you just feel all weird and stuff? Somebody http://www.imagemagician.org/images/deluby/trout.gif me please?

Originally posted by deluby
Have you ever had one of those days when you just feel all weird and stuff?
As opposed to... :confused: ?

Maeglian: I do hope Sam gets to see an oliphaunt!
Well, there is a very large one in the latest trailer, although I suppose that doesn't necessarily mean it will be in the movie. However, from several "behind-the-scenes" pictures I've seen they at least filmed the oliphaunt scene, so maybe it will be included in the final cut.

It's starting to look like the Faramir "purists" are going to have more to complain about that I thought. I wonder if he'll be all noble from the beginning, and perhaps take the Ring while wondering what the best thing to do with it is. Or will PJ leave it more ambiguous as to whether he is going to let Frodo get on with it? I personally don't care, as long as it means more and longer Frodo scenes. PJ better not try to "short change" Frodo fans or he'll have an uprising on his hands. :D

I've been kind of wondering how much of the "extra" Frodo/Faramir stuff was done last summer. Like maybe they edited the film and realized that they needed to add some scenes for the F/F fans. I know that all the "battle" fans are looking forward to Helm's Deep, but IMHO, even 15 minutes of it is pushing the outer limits. IIRC, the "landing on the beach" sequence in "Saving Private Ryan" lasted about 20 minutes, but it seemed even longer to me at the time. I'm really not all that interested in seeing Aragorn and company spill orc guts for 15 minutes, even if the elf does shield surf. Plus it's in the dark, so how much of the battle can you really see? No offense to all you battle fans, but the battles are my least fave parts of LOTR. It's not that I object to blood-letting per se (lest you think I am some sort of orc fancier or pacifist), but it does get awfully repetitive after about 5 minutes. I'm counting to PJ to have the sense not to let it drag on, but you never know. He is a big "horror" fan.

And I know I won't be the only one sitting there with my stop watch timing Frodo and Sam to make sure they get "equal time".

I am absolutely looking forward to every single second of Frodo in TTT – every single second!!! But I am also looking forward to Helm’s Deep. Here is where we get to see the power of the forces arrayed against our heroes – here is where we get to see the true contrast between the mighty warriors who fight to save Middle-Earth and the humble hobbits who ultimately will save it. I find a profound poetry in Tolkien’s language, even (or especially) when speaking of war, and I trust PJ to translate the battle scenes into so much more than just episodes of orc-killing. I still get goosebumps everytime I hear Theoden in the trailer say “Where is the horse and the rider…”
I WANT to see Gimli and Legolas’ competition over who kills the most orcs.
I want to hear Gandalf say “And behind us comes a very storm of Mordor. It will be a black night.”
I want to hear Theoden say “You thought I remained in Methuseld bent like an old tree under winter snow. So it was when you rode to war. But a west wind has shaken the boughs.”
I want to hear Aragorn say “Would that day was here and we might ride down upon them like a storm out of the mountains!”
I want to hear Gimli say “Give me a row of orc-necks and room to swing and all weariness will fall from me!”
I want to hear Aragorn say to Eomer “Come! This is the hour when we draw swords together!”

I don’t know how much of this PJ will include – but I have given up my purist leanings almost entirely in FotR because he caught the flavor and energy of Tolkien so well. I’m trusting him to bring the same nobility and sense of awe to the battle scenes that Tolkien gave them.

I am DYING to see Theoden decide to ride out to meet the foe “And then, sudden and terrible, from the tower above, the sound of the great horn of Helm rang out…All that heard that sound trembled….And with that shout the king came. His horse was white as snow, golden was his shield, and his spear was long…Light sprang in the sky. Night departed.”

And I’m darn glad we’re not at CoE, cause would I ever get slapped silly for posting this in the Faculty!!

Originally posted by esmeraldabrandybuck
Sheryl, I don't know how many here opted for the blue Imladris background, but your "spoiler" jumped right out at me on my blue background.

Sorry about that. Truth is, I went back to make it spoiler - I keep forgetting not everyone has read the books. :o Next time I guess I should just frame it with space and not change the color? I dunno.

Originally posted by Maeglian

in a way we may get to see Faramir doing Boromir's development in reverse.

Oooo, I like this idea. (You're so surprised! :p ) It would have to be handled carefully or the Faramir fans could go ballistic, but I could tolerate Faramir initially considering taking the Ring for the sake of Gondor if he isn't shown as possessed by the Ring - Gandalf and Galadriel argue that the Ring is a temptation because they think they could do good with it; Faramir could think the same thing.

I will be most distressed if Faramir touches it and then manages to give it back, but I am fond of the idea of him holding it by its chain as Boromir did (even though I was *not* fond of that Boromir scene initially - never hated it and rather like it now).

Originally posted by Maeglian

I used to think a little bit of TTT as the film where Frodo and Sam climb around in a lot of rocks, to quote EJW. TTT would be reasonably OK, but all the *really* good angsty Frodo stuff would come in Rotk; - Shelob, Cirith Ungol, tormented Frodo slowly breaking down and succumbing to the ring.....

Oh, some of my favorite bits are in TTT, even discounting the last chapters. When I first read it, I really didn't connect with Frodo in Fellowship; I connected more with Sam, and then grew to love Frodo in TTT, perhaps because Sam loves him. I still have more distance from book Fro in Fellowship than in TTT. My "relationship" with movie Frodo is very different - I'm much more connected to him from the git go - but I was definitely looking forward to so many little things in TTT, and also afraid PJ would toss them for the more visually exciting bash and slash stuff.

Originally posted by Maeglian

But now I must admit I am *completely* and utterly captivated by the fiery, frantic, feisty, feral Fro of TTT.

Ditto. tg's probably going to trout me for this, but my sister (who has finally broken down and is reading the books) said this past weekend she prefers the movie version of Frodo, and so far I agree. :eek: I love the book version, too, but they haven't merged for me, and I don't really expect them to, and in terms of appealing character movie Frodo has the edge. I very much love book Frodo, and certainly have no desire to lose him, but I'm emotionally closer to movie Frodo.

Originally posted by Maeglian

Well, enough of that. (This can't possibly be what you'd call *subtle*, Sheryl? )

Why, yes, it is. Matter of fact, you'd be "exhibit A" if I were to provide examples of Faculty swoons, Maeglian. :D

Originally posted by Maeglian

Sheryl, I seem to remember reading somewhere that PJ has said a blooper section would run so contrary to the serious tone of the film and the vision they were creating, that they'd chosen not to do it, at least not for FotR. I don't remember where I read that though, so I can't vouch for the veracity.

I hadn't heard that, but after I'd posted and ran off to the voting booth, those were my thoughts as well. (Fortunately, I'd already made my decisions on who I was voting for, so this distraction was not a problem. :rolleyes: ) My problem is that, if the kids are watching it and I'm not thoroughly involved, I always hear, "You Shall Not BOUNCE!" from McKellan on the Bridge in Moria. I think I'd like to see a blooper reel long after I'd had a chance to absorb the movies, or it would tend to spoil the mood.

Originally posted by deluby
Have you ever had one of those days when you just feel all weird and stuff?
originally posted by tgshaw
As opposed to... ":confused:?

LOL!

*sigh* Sad thing is how true this rings...

Louise, I'm also laughing at the stopwatch thing. I thought I sympathized with PJ before on trying to make everyone happy - I'm getting a much better grasp of it now. :D

Originally posted by Narya Celebrian
And I’m darn glad we’re not at CoE, cause would I ever get slapped silly for posting this in the Faculty!!

That post reminds me of something I've been planning to ask since about page three of this thread - Narya, is there anywhere you discuss Aragorn's character arc in depth? Back when we were discussing the mirror scene, and how Galadriel and Gandalf were trying to convince Frodo to take responsibility or something along those lines, you said something about "having issues" with Aragorn letting Frodo go at the end of Fellowship. I didn't pursue it at the time because it was so OT, which is still the case, but do you discuss it elsewhere? I'd still like to hear it, and anything else you have to say about Aragorn - my reading of LOTR has been so enriched by discussions at Imly, CoE, and here, but mostly I've read hobbit threads, and picked up elf stuff sort of by default somehow. I feel I've never pursued Aragorn in any depth. I have a feeling I could appreciate him more with proper coaching. :D

Thanks to all who post here.

((((((Faculty))))))

Sheryl

Well, Narya, I guess you misunderstood what I was saying. I never said I didn't want to see any of the other characters or action in TTT. But from the way the reports were sounding, we were going to lose most of Frodo, Sam, Faramir and Gollum to 2 1/2 hours of Helm's Deep and running around Rohan (not to mention the obligatory insertion of Arwen at every opportunity, despite the fact that she wasn't in TTT in the book. Sometimes I wish PJ wasn't such a big Liv fan, but I guess you have to have a pretty face for the guys. Personally I think Eowyn should have sufficed, but it's not my choice.) Plus we need to save time for Merry, Pippin and Treebeard. Action is fine, but what I really don't want to see is for the battle sequences to be dragged out at the expense of the characters--any characters, including Theoden, Aragorn and the gang. And if Helm's Deep had been 45 minutes long, as was once rumored, that would have been ridiculous.

Frankly, I fast forward through the fighting in FOTR, now that I can pick and choose. Straight fighting bores me, I'm afraid, especially after I've seen it a "few" times. Even Aragorn and Lurtz got old very quickly. I just don't find a bunch of fake hacking and stabbing that exciting--or thrilling, or whatever it is people see in battle scenes. And to me, the orc-slaying competition between the elf and the dwarf is cute as a running gag, but I don't need to see all 42 of them get killed (see, I did read that part of the book). But hey, it takes all kinds. You'll probably be looking at your watch through the dead marshes and I'll be looking at my watch after the first 5 minutes of the Deep. That's why TTT will make big bucks. There's something to please all tastes. And everyone needs a good spot to go the bathroom in a 3 hour movie. :D

Originally posted by Maeglian
Did I forget any?

How about this one?
http://web.kcnet.org/arielshouse/Ossgiliath.jpg

It doesn't have Fro in it, but I am pretty sure it is the same set.


From that two page spread of angsty angry Fro, everyone keeps saying that Frodo has had the ring taken from him. Did anyone consider that perhaps he took it off his neck and is hiding it in his pocket because there are strangers about? I mean, for most of FOTR it’s right in view, but he’s usually with people who already know about it. That scene with Faramir’s men is the first time Frodo is around strangers since AH – maybe he realized it’s pretty visible and tucked it away? That would also explain Faramir’s sword catching the ring in the cave – it would have been the first time he saw it.

As for Sam’s ‘spilling the beans’ here’s another occasion where I think I have read this somewhere and am not sure. I think it was in one of AICN’s reviews – the last scene Sean and Elijah did together was in HA – and it was the scene where the blindfolds came off. I ‘think’ I recall that Sam DOES spill the beans because that was the scene that Harry Knowles watched being filmed and reported it. Or am I completely delusional?

As for connecting with Book vs Movie Fro… Hmmm… Maybe I am just the angst maven, but I loved book Fro first and it was in FOTR that I started falling (right around Weathertop… Hmmmm… wonder why? :rolleyes: ) and it just got worse and worse from there. I didn’t have a good picture in my mind’s eye till CU but, as I have stated before, EW looks enough like my impression that it hasn’t been all that tough for me to integrate book and movie Fro.

That said, I AM looking at this situation from nearly 11 months out. I know there were scenes in the movie when I first saw it that made me go “Wha?” but they weren’t grating enough or frequent enough to ruin my movie experience (either that or I am just used to them now I have forgotten they bothered me). I don’t know if I altered my perception of Movie Fro to suit Book Fro or vice versa, but I see them as pretty similar in looks with book Fro being a bit older and wiser.

“Frantic, feisty Fro!” – well, that’s a description for you! I like him, and am EAGERLY awaiting the angst fest to come, but I hope they don’t make him TOO desperate. I absolutely adore the image from the book of Frodo standing before Faramir, ‘speaking well in a hard place’ and from the looks of things, we won’t ever see that. It’s a scene that adds dimension to Frodo’s character and is important for that reason, but I just can’t see it fitting in with PJ’s movie. :eek: I hope I am wrong in that – or at least in some aspect of that!

Narya – I am SO with you on all those quotes! I confess to having flipped to book 4 a few times in my reading, but Helm’s Deep is one of the best written battles I have ever read. No, I wouldn’t want 45 minutes of it in the movie, but I’ll handle 15 – especially with all the stuff that goes on – and have you guys seen the cgi orc armies? OME!!! MILLIONS OF ORCS!!! Who needs to pay for extras? We have a computer! LOL! The scene of them running through the army at Isengard is breathtaking (and the purist in me spotted Wormtongue there and screamed ‘WAIT! He’s not supposed to be there yet!) Ariel trouts her inner purist… and the wargs? Chilling! I may be a Fro fan and want to see his and Sam’s scenes, but I think the rest of the film will be darned interesting too!

(((((Luthiea)))))) I am sorry about Lily too.


Ariel

Oh dear, Loiuse, you definitely misunderstood me if you think I'll be looking at my watch during the Dead Marshes. :(

The second through sixth time I watched it in the theatre, I didn't even BLINK when Frodo was on screen. Literally. I timed my blinking for the moments when the camera turned away. Seventh through eighteenth times, I maybe blinked twice... :)

I wasn't even saying there was anything wrong with not liking the battle scenes - I was just saying I think there's a whole world of possibility in them. Tolkien brought all of Middle-Earth alive for me - I'm trusting PJ to do the same, in a different way. I am incredibly moved by the whole breadth and width and scope of that world, though my heart lies with the hobbits.

((((Louise))))

CHUD put up their review of SE DVD with screencaps
http://www.chud.com/chudvd/reviews/fellowship.php3

http://www.chud.com/chudvd/reviews/images4/lotr10.jpg


Luthiea, check your PM. :)

Originally posted by Ariel
Did anyone consider that perhaps he took it off his neck and is hiding it in his pocket because there are strangers about? I mean, for most of FOTR it’s right in view, but he’s usually with people who already know about it. That scene with Faramir’s men is the first time Frodo is around strangers since AH – maybe he realized it’s pretty visible and tucked it away?

Sheryl trouts Ariel for being sensible and imaginative and thinking with a clear head and ruining all her fun.

Actually, someone should probably take the trout away from Sheryl soon - she's getting bouncy obnoxious already, and TTT is still over a month away! :eek:

Although I must say that Elda's not-very-spoilerish spoiler posts in the Harem about the Extended DVD are Not Helping. :p Maybe I should ask for directions to a reviewer who isn't so enthusiastic or sympathetic to my point of view or something. Like that would work. :rolleyes:

Sheryl

Viola- I too am having trouble downloading the thread and really don't have the time right now to wait. I'll take Ariel's advice and omit piccies. So if I don't respond peoples, it doesn't mean I'm dead, just skipping bits. :D

bloopers- :eek: I don't want to see them- at least not for a while. I really struggled with the continuity bloops in FoTR and wish I'd never read those threads. They did mar the magic for me. Maybe further down the track they'd be fun though (the "bounce" line by McKellan always makes me smile).

I'm with Narya on the war scenes. At first I skipped them when I read the books; now they are among my favourite parts. Can't wait. That's what I love about LOTR, its got the "personal" and the "epic" all in the one text. As Louise says "something to please all tastes."

I hope they don't make Frodo too feisty too Ariel. Bet PJ will though. I always loved the stolid dignity of book Frodo. He quietly stands up to Faramir, even under cross questioning amidst a crowd of (potentially) hostile soldiers. Well, we will see.

Lutheia- so sorry. Life is hard and cruel at times.

Prim

((((Narya))))) I guess my paranoia about Frodo's part of the story being slighted in favor of more action-oriented sequences has made me overly defensive. The trailers seem so hobbit light that it's got me worried. I mean, Arwen has more shots in the trailer than all of the hobbits put together. Every time I read where someone describes Frodo and Sam's trip through Mordor as "walking around doing nothing", I cringe. I can't believe that some people could be so blind about what this book is about. Yeah, there are some good battles in there, but the most important battle, IMO is Frodo's battle with the Ring. And no amount of heroics by all the armies in Middle Earth could have saved the day if Frodo had lost his battle at say, Weathertop rather than fighting to the end. I just hate to see the hobbits' role belittled by a bunch of D&D fans. *Sob* But I want to have faith in PJ (except for Arwen--I have ISSUES--she took away Frodo's bravery at the Ford, and I may never forgive her for that. :D ). I'm just afraid that commerce will win out, and the spiritual journey will be reduced to please the "action" fans. Blech!!!!! Is it Dec 18 yet?

Originally posted by Ariel
As for Sam’s ‘spilling the beans’ here’s another occasion where I think I have read this somewhere and am not sure. I think it was in one of AICN’s reviews – the last scene Sean and Elijah did together was in HA – and it was the scene where the blindfolds came off. I ‘think’ I recall that Sam DOES spill the beans because that was the scene that Harry Knowles watched being filmed and reported it. Or am I completely delusional?

I think I remember reading that - and I think it wasn't the 'spilling the beans' scene, but the scene in (book spoilers)


Cirith Ungol, when Sam says his 'naught but your skin' line,


that was last filmed. Am I making this up?:confused:

The first time I read the books, I had such a hard time getting through Book III, because anything without hobbits was just soooo boring.:o ;) But the SECOND time...I was just blown away by Helm's Deep. And the Pellenor Fields...I can't wait to see that stuff on the big screen.:)

But the hobbit parts are definitely my favorites.:D I wouldn't worry too much, Louise (yet.;) ) Part of the reason that the trailers haven't had a lot of hobbits is because they were still working on Gollum and Treebeard. And I think they've all also been geared toward the mainstream audience, which wants to see the big battles and stuff...but...I think when it comes to the actual movie, we'll be all right. This is the same PJ that gave us Frodo and Sam in the boat at the end of FOTR, and that lovely ending, and well...I just think we'll be okay.:)

And we need Arwen in TTT because otherwise everyone would forget about her before her wedding...:p

Besides, from the trailers, it's looking like more Arwen=more Elrond...:o

Sheryl, give up that trout.:p ;)

Hi, Bridget! :k

No, I'm certain that the last scene that Sean and Elijah filmed together was the blindfold scene at H.A. I read it again fairly recently. As for whether or not Sam "spills the beans?" That part I don't know. Can't wait to find out, though!

Those lucky lucky people who saw the SE DVD in theaters today have put up their reviews.
----SPOILERS---
Iorethdttr from COE saw it with erendis:
http://www.council-of-elrond.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=76500#post76500#post76500

ElfStar from TORC: http://www.tolkienonline.com/thewhitecouncil/messageview.cfm?catid=13&threadid=57644

Has erendis post her review yet?
7 days to go!! arggghhh!! Can't wait any longer.

Hullo all. It's been what seems a veryyyyy long time since I've been in here. But I have been sick the past...week and extremely tired. And just haven't had the time lately. What have I missed? I heard some thing about blinking in the Harem...blinking? Seriously? Hate to say it but I do have to go at this moment. – Alexan

I'll get this up, then come back and say more. Erendis posted her review in the KD Trilogy forum:

http://www.khazaddum.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=90828#post90828

Not as positive as the other reviews that have been linked to, but she does say she's possibly having the same reaction a lot of us had after seeing FotR the first time, when all we could do was compare it to the book, but now all she can do is compare it to the theatrical version.

But, y'know, even if all of the new material is garbage (which no one has said :eek: ), I'd still want the SE just for the commentary tracks and the special features.

On to TTT and feisty, feral, frothing-at-the-mouth ( :rolleyes: yeah, a bit strong, but I couldn't think of any more f's) Frodo: I also love book-Frodo's coolness and diplomacy under pressure. But IMHO, movie-Frodo is too young and inexperienced to pull off what his counterpart did. (As I'm sure I've said previously, book-Frodo's been protecting his inheritance against the S-B's for 17 years; what's a bunch of hostile Gondorian soldiers after that? ) I've expected all along that the confrontation with Faramir would be changed along the same lines as the confrontation with Boromir: fewer words and more action and anger, simply because movie-Frodo's so young. The extra Osgiliath material certainly takes it further than I expected. I'm very curious about it, but unless either F or F is a total jerk or completely goes insane, I don't expect to be too upset, because I'd already assumed we'd lose my favorite parts. And, actually, my favorite parts would be totally out of place given Frodo's characterization in the FotR movie. So, if necessary, I think I'll be able to cover any disappointment by the "alternate history" provision that the movies are what might have happened if Gandalf had discovered the truth about the Ring 17 years earlier.

Sheryl (and/or anyone else)--It's not about movie-Aragorn, but there's an Aragorn discussion going on in The Green Dragon -- "The Men of Middle-earth" thread. I'm sure any questions or comments you have on the character would be welcomed by the dedicated Aragorn-ites there :) . The discussion switched to Aragorn just a few days ago, but it's already slowing down--some new input would probably pick it back up again. (It's probably time for the hobbit thread there to veer off in another direction, too, so if anyone has an idea for a topic regarding hobbits in general or a specific book-hobbit character... we seem to have exhausted the discussion on the hobbits who collaborated with Saruman [although I'm still thinking about a lot of what was said in that one!].)

--------I don't know what the last Frodo&Sam scene filmed was, but the report on the CU shooting came from one of the Tolkien language experts who was watching, not anyone from AICN, if that clears anything up :confused: .



(((Alexan))) (((Luthiea)))

Originally posted by deluby
http://www.chud.com/chudvd/reviews/images4/lotr10.jpg

Okay, I never had an image of bookFrodo in my mind, but *this* is what I always knew he'd look like. I don't care if that didn't make sense. I'm just gonna stare at this one for the next few minutes, thank you. :)


re the filming discussion: Harry Knowles witnessed the scene where Frodo and Sam are blindfolded -- that was Sean Astin's last scene. Harry didn't report any specific dialogue, but he described it as the scene where Frodo and Sam talk about what had happened to the fellowship, and possibly also the moment when Frodo finds out Boromir is dead.

Re: feralFrodo (whom I absolutely, pathetically drool over) -- there is a HUGE spoiler at http://www.warofthering.net/ I cannot stress enough how BIG this spoiler is. ABSOLUTELY DO NOT read the spoiler if you don't want to know anything at all. But those who do read that spoiler, I'd love to see how the discussion here will turn. :)

{{{Luthiea}}} and {{{Alexan}}} I've missed seeing you here, Alexan. Didn't know you weren't well. Hope you'll get better soon. :k

Sheryl, give up that trout. And how dare you be more sick than me. :p Actually whenever I do sit through that Arwen on horse sequence, and that branch scratches her cheek, I'm thinking, "Man, what a waste of blood make-up. You have a bleeding hobbit right there ... and you're wasting blood on her. Sheesh." :D :D

Oh Colleagues! I feel so blessed, because I was able to see the SE on the big screen last night (with Goldie :) )! It was the coolest experience! Not only did I absolutely LOVE the new version (as any Frodo-centric person might), but the crowd at the theater was the best! Everyone who was there, except for some media folks, was a Tolkien fan. Some wore elven cloaks, some wore hobbit ears, some wore "Sam will kill me if I try anything" shirts, some wore rings around their necks. But all were totally into the film. No one made rude remarks at inappropriate times. Everyone laughed at the right times. We all cheered when favorite book lines were edited back in! No one got up to go to the bathroom for 3 1/2 hours! :eek:

It was the best experience I have had in seeing the film, and not only because I liked the new version. I have posted a brief review over in trilogy. My reaction is not the same as erendis'. I can't wait to see it again.

As a special bonus, they ran a preview of coming attractions. We got to see the TTT trailer on the big screen. December 18 can't come soon enough.

Originally posted by Ariel

As for connecting with Book vs Movie Fro… Hmmm… Maybe I am just the angst maven, but I loved book Fro first and it was in FOTR that I started falling (right around Weathertop… Hmmmm… wonder why? :rolleyes: ) and it just got worse and worse from there. I didn’t have a good picture in my mind’s eye till CU but, as I have stated before, EW looks enough like my impression that it hasn’t been all that tough for me to integrate book and movie Fro.

Well, I never actually saw Bakshi's movie, but my subconscious remains convinced that book Fro has brown eyes, and all my reading in the Harem about Frodo's beautiful baby blues has done nothing to convert it. :D My book Fro also has more inward beauty than outward - he is beautiful for those who are perceptive rather than for just anyone looking at him.

Book Fro has a wry humor I just don't see in movie Fro. And he has... I don't know how to describe it. While on the one hand he's more self-conscious than movie Fro, more aware of himself and how he presents himself, OTOH he's more confident - he has a type of confidence that some people view as arrogance, but that is actually based on an accurate assessment of his own abilities and of the various situations. And he is far more a diplomat than movie Fro. tg argues that much of these differences are due to age - book Fro has all that time dealing with the Sackville-Bagginses - but even what little we see of Frodo right after his 33rd birthday, there's this edge of assurance and confidence that movie Frodo doesn't share.

Movie Fro and book Fro can both be very direct, but they're direct in very different ways. Even at 33, I don't think book Fro would have replied "Yes" to Aragorn's, "Are you frightened?" He would have if Gandalf asked it, in a shot, but it would be giving up too much to admit that to a complete stranger - even if said stranger *did* "look foul and feel fair." Book Fro is too much of a strategist to do that, I think. Movie Fro wouldn't have replied to Gandalf's "it is partly about (the Ring) that I have come to say the last word" with "Well, what about it?" There's an assurance to Frodo's response to Gandalf even the day after Bilbo's party that movie Frodo doesn't share. Book Frodo is as direct and comfortable with Gandalf in that scene as he is in the later one in The Shadow of the Past.

I think both book and movie Frodos are INFPs - but book Fro is further toward the center on the Thinking-Feeling and Judicial-Perceiving continuums, while movie Frodo is closer to center on the Introvert-Extravert one. Book Frodo has an inner confidence common to NTs, and he has it pretty early on. And he handles people well, by handling himself well - both Frodo's are polite and pretty good with people, but book Fro has a formality and dignity that movie Fro is too impetuous to carry off. Again, I think Ariel and tg see this as a maturity issue, while I see it more as basic personality. I think that even at the same age, book Frodo could deal with people in a less direct but ultimately more efficient way.

I don't think it's just the way PJ has the Ring influencing movie Frodo that makes him more impetuous and passionate - I think by nature he's more likely to reveal his feelings, while book Frodo more automatically conceals them. It kind of has to be that way - book Frodo would be harder for the movie audience to "read" than movie Frodo is.

I guess I just see book Frodo as a far more internal person than movie Frodo - more "Spock" than "McCoy," for those of you with a Star Trek background.

Originally posted by Ariel

“Frantic, feisty Fro!” – well, that’s a description for you! I like him, and am EAGERLY awaiting the angst fest to come, but I hope they don’t make him TOO desperate. I absolutely adore the image from the book of Frodo standing before Faramir, ‘speaking well in a hard place’ and from the looks of things, we won’t ever see that. It’s a scene that adds dimension to Frodo’s character and is important for that reason, but I just can’t see it fitting in with PJ’s movie. :eek: I hope I am wrong in that – or at least in some aspect of that!

I think we will see Frodo stand up to Faramir, I think he will make telling points and be brave and come off with honor - but I don't think it'll be the same sort of diplomatic talk that's in the book, because that's not how I see movie Frodo. :) Movie Frodo is polite rather than diplomatic, I'd say. Movie Fro speaks more from passion and instinct than book Fro does, but they are totally alike in terms of caring about people and their belief systems and such like, so I think the underlying feel of the scene will be very similar, even though the overlying acting it out is more passionate - assuming Faramir's character isn't changed into something unrecognizable. :eek: They're worried in the Faramir thread; I hope PJ doesn't tweak Faramir's character too far!

I'm comfortable with what PJ does with Frodo because the fundamental beliefs and attitudes are the same - I just think the book and movie versions express things differently. The core of the characters is identical; the changes are more on the surface. But I think I see the changes going deeper than some do.

Thanks for the heads up on the Aragorn discussion, tg. And I read erendis' review/spoilers, they've calmed me a bit, but really it's the commentary tracks that I'm getting all gonzo about, and a few scenes we'd already heard of.

Originally posted by ainon

I cannot stress enough how BIG this spoiler is. ABSOLUTELY DO NOT read the spoiler if you don't want to know anything at all.

ainon, you are tormenting me. I clicked on the link and looked at the chunk of space that had to be highlighted, and that tormented me. Then I came back without highlighting it and did a buncha other stuff and it still tormented me. Then I decided it probably revealed what I'd already run across in the Faramir thread, so I went ahead and read it. :p

So... correction. You WERE tormenting me. ;)

And, per the spoilers... I can live with that. :D :D Well, we'll see how it's handled, but probably it won't bother me at all. I hope. I'm banking on PJ and Wenhem to carry it off effectively without making me want to fling trout.

Speaking of which...

Originally posted by Bridget Chubb AND ainon

Sheryl, give up that trout.

Hey, I said, "Soon." Soon is not now. Gee whiz, guys, you want to spoil all my fun?

Sheryl considers the fact that two of her closest friends have warned her to give up the trout. She draws the trout out and looks at it. It looks so harmless; rich and beautiful are its colors, the rainbow shimmering so very fair. It is an admirable thing, and altogether precious. Give it up? Can't be done. They just want it for themselves!

Sheryl

As I posted in my own mini-review over in the Trilogy section: Vita, you totally ROCK!:k :k :k

It was the most magical movie-viewing experience I've ever had. Even my first viewing of FOTR doesn't compare, because my brain and heart couldn't process everything the first time. This time, familiarity with the original combined with delight at the added material to make it pretty awesome. And as Vita said, you couldn't have asked for a better audience.

I'm spoiled for life.:D

dw ascends from lurkdom to announce she's not happy with the Major Spoiler. Not Happy at all!


I suppose I deserve it. When everyone was screaming "Arwen at the Ford! Frodo doesn't stand up to the Rider's!" "Nuclear Galandriel!" "Aragorn is a weenie!" "Merry and Pippin are just a couple of goofs' etc etc...I was going "What's the big deal?

Now its all coming back to me....I guess its just my turn! :D

dream wanderer

Hullo there!

Woah, I've got a *pile* of college work to do, but first things first! ;)

Alexan - hope you're feeling better now!

Thanks everyone for your words of sympathy for Lily - they've put up a memorial page at Elijahfan's forum for her - it is very moving.


I have just been over at another site, rottentomatoes, sticking up for EW, cos some nasty person was being very rude and saying his accent on LOTR was crap! :mad:

Goldie and Vita - I am glowing green with jealousy (bit like Nuclear Galadriel!)!! You lucky things! I will have to go and read your reviews. I don't know if they're showing the SE in the cinemas over here - probably not though, will have to wait till it comes out! I am thinking of getting my copy of the SE DVD over the internet, instead of just buying it in a shop - I think you can get it for cheaper.

Oh I luv that new Frodo pic! Is that Aragorn he's speaking to, in Lorien? Look at his little face! :(

Thanks to Sheryl and tg for the Osgiliath explanations!

Originally posted by Shilohmm - I will be most distressed if Faramir touches it and then manages to give it back, but I am fond of the idea of him holding it by its chain as Boromir did (even though I was *not* fond of that Boromir scene initially - never hated it and rather like it now).
Oh dear - now I am having rather childish visions of Faramir holding the Ring up just out of Frodo's reach, and a desperate Frodo jumping up and down trying to grab it back! :o :eek:

Thanks to Deluby for those links!;) I wonder if the book is available here yet? When we were away a few weeks ago my mum got me the Art of LOTR book for my Xmas - it looks really great!

I am supposed to be seeing the new Harry Potter movie on Saturday - my friend is desperate to see it for some reason! It's a special preview though I don't know why she couldn't have waited to see it later. I won't be seeing it twice though, like I did with HP & The Philosopher's Stone - will be saving pennies for multiple viewings of TTT!

Here's a couple of goodies for you all in the meantime, they are realplayer interviews for FOTR for the BBC program 'Film 2002' -

Maybe some of you have already seen these but...

Cast talking about FOTR, small bit of Lij talking about the Movie - I just lurve his voice!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/films/2001/11/30/av/lord_of_the_rings_g2.ram


I especially like this one, with Jonathon Ross interviewing Lij.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/films/2001/12/13/av/elijah_wood_g2.ram

Enjoy!

:)

Another possible "Exhibit A" coming up......


Vita, and Goldenberry, I am soooooo jealous! Thank you for telling us about the EV. I love it! I am devouring spoilers like mad. The more, the better! And reading Elda's posts over in the Harem has *not* made the remaining waiting time easier....

Luthiea, thank you for those links.

Sheryl, rest you easy. I will not try to take your trout away from you. Fear not! I do not wish to see it, or touch it, or know more of it than I know (which is enough). :rolleyes:


Possible significant spoiler and speculation!
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(All of the following based on the assumption that the new spoiler will be proven true!)
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Ainon, I read your spoiler and am discovering the meaning of the word "Ambivalence". My inner haremite is yelling: Yeeeeeesss!. My inner Faramite is screaming: Noooooo!

So it's up to Maeg the Faculty member to explain:

I am not very surprised at that spoiler. I think it fits in very well with my own speculation yesterday. It ties in neatly with what we have seen in TTT trailers, previews and spoiler pics. The only surprise to me was that this new spoiler says Faramir is not just being uncertain and having difficulty in deciding what to do, he actually *decides* what to do, to take the ring to Minas Tirith. Only later does he change his mind. I don't know if I find that wholly plausible. I would think the Ring would work on his mind so that he couldn't give up having control over it once he'd decided. But we'll see. If he actually manages to re-decide, that should certainly "prove his quality; - the very highest".....

What also bothers me, is that if he decides to take the ring back home, there is no reason why he should let Frodo keep it while travelling. The reasonable approach then would be that he'd want to safeguard it himself. That way, Frodo escaping or getting lost en route would not mean losing the ring. Faramir taking the Ring would fit with Froodo looking ringless in some pics, but it would be such an annoying and unnecessary deviation from book canon..... And it would be even more difficult to explain and understand that Faramir later would be able to give the ring up, if he's been carrying it around. Plus, there is the significance that noone else than Frodo touches the ring (at least not up till now).

So the Faramir purist side of me is quite worried.... Still, PJ has proven that he can make us buy into character arches very different from book canon (Aragorn comes to mind), and Faramir will prove a noble hero in the end, so I am very willing to give PJ the full benefit of the doubt. I am very glad I knew of this before seeing the film, though, otherwise I would probably be fuming at the changes made re. Faramir. Now I have time to digest it.

I am half delirious with joy at this spoiler nevertheless, because IMO it means that PJ is cranking the Frodo angst in the Faramir encounter up to the max!!

I have book Frodo and movie Frodo completely separated in my mind, and although I'd like to see a calm and cautious Frodo verbally sparring and holding his own, I am even more looking forward to the younger, more vulnerable and much more emotional movie Frodo's reactions to all of this. (I fully agree with Sheryl's opinions and analysis of the book and movie Frodos.)

Poor Frodo, full of fear, panic and anger at the prospect of losing the ring, fighting his "Gollum-like" craving for it and his need to hang on to it. Frantic at the thought that if *he* doesn't fulfill his mission, noone else will, and *that* means the end of ME; - and the bleak future he saw in Galadriel's mirror. No wonder he looks so very desperate! The "feral" Fro scene will likely be on the way to Osgiliath, it does indeed sound like he's trying desperately to make Faramir change his mind there. And now I can even believe that Frodo's fighting in Osgiliath could actually be against one of the "good guys" in the film.

I repeat, I am *completely* and utterly captivated by the fiery, frantic, feisty, feral Fro that this scenario calls for! Bring on the angst!

This will be awesome. I can hardly wait!!! :) But I may need lessons in how to handle disappointment if PJ doesn't deliver on my expectations now, because I am *not* entirely rational about this anymore.....

Edit: Several posts sneaked by my somehow--since I'm at work, I may not get a chance to catch up and rethink everything, so for now I'll just leave my original post.

Originally posted by shilohmm
My book Fro also has more inward beauty than outward - he is beautiful for those who are perceptive rather than for just anyone looking at him.
We do know that he's fairer than some and taller than most... or is it taller than some and fairer than most :confused: ? And he does have that cleft in his chin.

tg argues that much of these differences are due to age...
I think you may have converted me... Very, very good points all the way through, and actually pretty consistent with the way I see book-Frodo at 33. (But I have to keep some of the "age" thing in my head, or the whole alternate history idea falls apart and I have to find another way to reconcile the two stories :( .)

Even at 33, I don't think book Fro would have replied "Yes" to Aragorn's, "Are you frightened?"
That line has always seemed strange to me. Even now when I hear it, it seems like it should be referring to whether he's afraid of Aragorn, since Frodo's just asked "Who are you?"--so it's a bit off kilter for me when Aragorn says, "...I know what hunts you." IMHO, that line's a bit off even for movie-Frodo. I'd heard there's a bit more material in the SE that makes "We have no choice but to trust him" more reasonable. (Any lucky person who got to see it want to comment? ;) )

I think by nature he's more likely to reveal his feelings, while book Frodo more automatically conceals them. It kind of has to be that way - book Frodo would be harder for the movie audience to "read" than movie Frodo is.
Yes, it'd be hard to let the audience get to know an out-and-out introvert--unless that were the main point of the movie. But the main reason I was happy when EW was cast in the role was that I knew he was capable of showing what was going on inside an "interior" character without saying a word--which I think he still gets quite a few chances to do even though movie-Frodo isn't as interior as book-Frodo.

Also related to personality type--One way I see Frodo's and Sam's personalities balancing in the book is that, along with Frodo being a fairly strong introvert, Sam is a pretty thorough extravert. Now, I don't see that in movie-Sam at all. I wonder if making Frodo less of an introvert leads to the "balance" of making Sam less of an extravert. That could be important when we get to CU--in the book we depend on a Sam who talks all the time (to himself, if there's no one else around) to let us know what's happening. Of course, we'll be able to see events in the movie, so maybe that becomes less important.

And, per the spoilers... I can live with that. :D :D Well, we'll see how it's handled, but probably it won't bother me at all. I hope. I'm banking on PJ and Wenhem to carry it off effectively without making me want to fling trout.
Hmmm... with only PJ and Wenhem mentioned here, it may be safe to look... ;)


Sheryl considers the fact that two of her closest friends have warned her to give up the trout. She draws the trout out and looks at it. It looks so harmless; rich and beautiful are its colors, the rainbow shimmering so very fair. It is an admirable thing, and altogether precious. Give it up? Can't be done. They just want it for themselves!
--LOL--

Oh, Sheryl! They're not trying to rob you, they're trying to help you! :p

Originally posted by tgshaw

Hmmm... with only PJ and Wenhem mentioned here, it may be safe to look... ;)


Have a care, tg! The spoilers are on more than just Wenhem's character!

Sheryl

--Yeah, I kind of figured that out from reading the posts that "sneaked" in while I was writing mine ;) .

Originally posted by tgshaw


I'd heard there's a bit more material in the SE that makes "We have no choice but to trust him" more reasonable. (Any lucky person who got to see it want to comment? ;) )



SE DVD SPOILER WARNING!!!


Frodo utters the line "A servant of the Enemy would seem fairer and feel fouler, I think" or close to that as they walk from Bree to Weathertop. To which Merry replies something like "He seems foul enough already."

Just read the spoiler, and I'm not too surprised either--except that I didn't realize that at the time Osgiliath was built Men had developed such advanced sanitary systems. :p Must have been before the glory of Numenor faded, eh?

Goldie--Thanks for the answer on the Aragorn question.

Originally posted by Goldenberry
SE DVD SPOILER WARNING!!!


LOL! at Merry's reply.

Originally posted by tgshaw
except that I didn't realize that at the time Osgiliath was built Men had developed such advanced sanitary systems.

Those go back to prehistoric times - the earliest one found was in a Neolithic village, and the guys in the Indus Valley had them, too. I don't think you could have a city without them. At any rate, I wouldn't visit said city. :eek:

Sheryl

As most of us know, TTT movie books were released today (Photo Guide, Visual Companion, Making of the Trilogy.). I ran out this morning and got them!!!!! There are MAJOR spoilers in these books. I know there are many people who are trying to avoid spoilers, so in order to prevent them spilling over everywhere, I have set up a TTT movie books thread in the Trilogy here (http://www.khazaddum.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1477) , and wanted to let people know, so those who are reveling in the spoilers can join me there, and we can spare our threadmates from seeing spoilers they don’t want to see.

I’m hoping it will be OK to post pictures in the individual threads, as people can turn images off, but I think plot spoilers should be either clearly marked or kept in the spoiler threads, like the one I just set up. While I am completely unable to avoid spoilers, I know there are many who are trying to remain spoiler free (or relatively spoiler free).

Unfortunately, I’ve been doing this all from work this morning, and I now need to get some actual work done, so I won’t be able t o participate in the discussions until tonight. I did think it was important, though, to get this thread set up, as I myself was so darn excited at what I’d seen that I seriously had to restrain myself from a spoiler posting frenzy!

Elevensies is posting pics from the books to the Harem.

There's a clarification and book quote on the spoiler ainon posted at TORN (apparently) and at the TTT discussion thread at CoE, with great commentary.

No, I don't have a life - not today!

Sheryl

Yes, I've posted pics of Frodo in the Harem. I thought this was the better place for pics of "Elido", though.:D

http://members.truepath.com/bananachunks/elido1.jpg

http://members.truepath.com/bananachunks/elido2.jpg

Hello, all! The discussion is moving swiftly, today!

It is becoming quite a chore to avoid spoilers, I must say. Maeg, I skipped your whole post because I didn't see anywhere that the spoilers ended somewhere in there. I skipped as much of the other posts as I could, as I just don't want to read anything that I will regret.

Part of me loves seeing the photos, also, but I'm a bit miffed that I gave in and had a look at a picture of Treebeard. I would have loved to be surprised. But now I can say that at least for me, he is going to be quite satisfactory.

I'm also not reading reviews of the SE DVD. At least I don't have to worry about that one for much longer! But how in the world am I going to steer clear of TTT stuff for another (*quick calculation*) 44 days or more? I may have to resort to turning off the images, as much as it will kill me to do so. What's a girl to do? :confused:

Luthiea, way to go defending EW's accent! It may not be perfect all the way through, but he did a credible enough job that a British friend of mine was astonished to find out after seeing FOTR that he is not, in fact, British. ;) Some people can even catch a bit of a British tinge in his regular speech, even now (probably from hanging around with Dominic so much).

This discussion of BookFrodo vs. MovieFrodo is very interesting. My simplified view of it is that PJ chose to play up the youth and innocence angle in order that Frodo's experiences and ultimate fate would be that much more dramatic and tragic. And I agree that MovieFro is much easier for audiences to "read" and maybe even relate to. That empathy for MovieFro had to be established fairly quickly in order for what happens to him soon after to really have impact.

http://members.truepath.com/bananachunks/facets.jpg

Bunnie, I'm sorry - but my post was either spoilers, or speculation, or pure ranting, so you didn't miss anything. It will be difficult to live spoiler free though, if everyone are as emotional about this as me, they'll hardly know what they say or do anymore. I mean it.

Anyone else feeling really exhausted? I've seen (well, stared at) the new piccies over at the harem, and I realize now I'm feeling completely drained. Perhaps the best thing is to just go away for a while and calm down, to come back in time for the SE DVD, for instance? :rolleyes: :rolleyes: AS IF!!!!

When, oh when, OH WHEN are those books going to be available *here*???:(

Ack! Where are our manners? Elevensies, thank you for the scanned pictures!

Look at all those lovely quotes about EW. I'd be blushing furiously if I were him, but OTOH looking at that collection of quotes got me to speculating - what generous and articulate people EW worked with, don't you think? I've seen actors praise their fellows before, but not so brilliantly. ;) Further evidence of the quality of all the people involved in PJ's little project, I'd say.

Sheryl

Where are our manners? They were lost somewhere in the middle of the intense swo..... I mean, in the intent perusal of many fantastic pitures posted by Elevensies.

But thanks to Sheryl, they somehow re-emerged. Thank you sincerely, Elevensies! :)

Now, if the scans on this page would only load! OK, please someone really trout me if I post anything more today.

Ele...what great scans!!!

Elido...BITING HIS NAILS!!! (STOP THAT!!!)

Swoonworthy quotes! My God...I feel like I don't deserve to be on the same planet as he is!

Thank you to all those posting the pictures and other scans from the Companion book. All I can say is, I'm getting one!

Miranda Otto: "Elijah has the innocence of a child, the wisdom of a ninety-year-old man, and the grace of an angel."

Sounds like she should join The Faculty, to me! ;)

Originally posted by eldalieva
...I feel like I don't deserve to be on the same planet as he is!

Elda, stop reading this post right now if you don't want to be brought out of your 'not-worthy' funk.:p

Remember that Elijah:
-bites his nails
-smokes
-uses foul language (even if he does it in a cute way;) )
-peed in PJ's favorite fountain
-looks geeky sometimes in RL


See? Human. Extraordinary human, but nevertheless, human.

There have to be a few exceptional beings to lift, for a time, those who can appreciate them up above the sameness of everyday life in Ordinaryland.

Thank Eru!:) :) :)

OMG!!!!! I need resusitation quick!!! I'm tingling all over after reading those quotes and looking at the new photos! Elijah Wood is just a DARLING, I wish I knew him! I've come over all hot and bothered. Luthiea fans herself with her copy of TTT, which was lying nearby. Thats a bit better...

Thanks Elevensies you are wonderful for posting those piccies!!! :D

I think a trip to WH Smith is in order! :D (Checks watch - hmm, maybe tomorrow...)

I'm so excited :) *dances round the room*. I can't wait. I'm so happy that the SE DVD and TTT will be out soon. To think this time last year I had been planning on seeing FOTR only once! How things have changed!

Originally posted by Alexan
Like I said in the Harem mom won't let me get the SE FOTR DVD (yeah, I know, it sounds pathetic). Saying that I already have the movie I don't need every version of it. :( I guess I can't join in on your guy's discussion of any thing on it...at least for now. :mad:



:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

Oh, good golly, Alexan! Couldn't you ask for it for Christmas or something? Or spend some of your own money on it, or something?

I feel for you! But maybe your local video store will have a copy that you can rent or something. Or do you have generous friends who would let you borrow it? I hope you find a way to see it!

Hi All!
I went to the bookstore last night to take a look at those new books, can't buy them because I've already pre-ordered Making of and Visual Companion at Amazon. Strange thing is, most of the stores I went to carry either Visual Companion or Making of and none of them has the Photo Guide or Creatures. :rolleyes: I've leafed through the two I pre-ordered and http://www.imagemagician.org/images/deluby/drool.gifing all over the new pictures, but knowing that I'll have those in a few days(or God-knows-when, they haven't even been shipped :rolleyes: ), I was able to put them down without reading every page. However I had to take a look at the Photo Guide and Creature because I wasn't sure if they were worth buying. So I ended up going to 3 Borders and 4 Barnes&Nobles :rolleyes: till the last one had those two books. By then I've spent the whole evening looking for them and my feet were killing me. (curse those high heels, what was I thinking? http://www.imagemagician.org/images/deluby/hammer.gif) So I grabbed those books without even taking a peek and immediately went to the cash register. I don't care if they worth $20, there's no way I would go home empty handed after all those searching. Plus I knew I probably would give up eventually and buy them someday. :rolleyes: Anyone with willpower, could you share some with me please?? :p
Anyway, got home and started reading, I didn't realize that I was spoiling the movie for myself until I read the captions of pictures in the Photo Guide. :eek: I suddenly remembered last year I read the FOTR photo guide after I saw the movie, so to me then it was just a bunch of pictures I had already seen. But this time.... :( Sigh, even though I know I'm probably reading dialogues taken directly from TTT, I still couldn't put the book away. http://www.imagemagician.org/images/deluby/trout.gif myself.
I'm avoiding the TTT movie books thread in the Trilogy though, at least for now, wanna read all 4 books myself first. amazon hurry up!!!!!! :mad:
TORN has posted lots of reviews of SE DVD screening, I'm not reading them either, I'm afraid those would be too detailed, I don't really want a scene-by-scene description. I think I can wait 6 more days, plus weekends always fly. :rolleyes:
However I do read reviews from general site, they tend to be more overall. If anyone is interested, ACIN has posted their review of FOTR: SE DVD here: http://www.aintitcool.com/display.cgi?id=13726
I'm not gonna watch FOTR before Nov.12th because I want the first viewing of SE DVD to be fresh. :p Now I can't read spoiler threads(yet), can't watch DVD, still waiting for the new books, what am I gonna do? :eek:

Oh, and official site has updated with some edoras stuff, including a featurette. http://www.lordoftherings.net/index_201_le_expl.html


I finished those gifs the other day, I'll post the mirror scene in Lorien today. We should be done with the movie itself by this weekend, and I'm sure there will be tons of stuff to play with in those 4 discs !! wooohooo! http://www.imagemagician.org/images/deluby/smile.gif

I did 7 gifs for the mirror scene, and selected 3 to post.
1. This one here is right before Frodo walks up to look into the mirror.
http://www.imagemagician.org/images/deluby7/29mirror2p.gif


2, 3. I'm posting the next two together because they are Frodo's reaction when he sees the Shire being burned and then sees the eye.
http://www.imagemagician.org/images/deluby7/33mirror5p.gif
http://www.imagemagician.org/images/deluby7/33mirror5p.gif

http://www.imagemagician.org/images/deluby7/34mirror6p.gif
http://www.imagemagician.org/images/deluby7/34mirror6p.gif


BTW, Viola Took and Cadmo, sorry about those gifs slowing down your computer. http://www.imagemagician.org/images/deluby/sorry.gif

ummm, forgot what else I was gonna say. :o

For those who missed seeing the side-by-side comparison of the new movie shot of the "Taming of Smeagol" scene with the corresponding Alan Lee illustration a couple of days ago because the links had to be taken down temporarily, you can now view the restored post by clicking here. (http://www.khazaddum.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=90441#post90441)

That is all. We will now resume normal programming....

Alexan, I was responding to Elda's saying she doesn't belong on the same planet with him. Of COURSE that list of Elwoods' flaws is a bunch of piddly little stuff. That was the whole point.;) Well, except for the smoking--but that subject has been beaten to death.:rolleyes:

About the alien being concept: We wonders. Yes, we does, Precioussss. I'm not ruling out any possibilities in this strange world we inhabit.:cool: ;) :p

Originally posted by Goldenberry
About the alien being concept: We wonders. Yes, we does, Precioussss. I'm not ruling out any possibilities in this strange world we inhabit.:cool: ;) :p
This entire post is :rolleyes: , in case anyone starts wondering about me.

Well, I don't know. I was riding the campus shuttle awhile back and the driver (to emphasize that I did not have control over the choice of radio station) had on a call-in talk show where the guest was an expert on aliens and how the government is covering up their presence among us. Among other things, she said that aliens have been interbreeding with humans for quite some time (this is, of course, part of their master plan to infiltrate the entire population of earth). In fact, she said, many of the people you know, or even those you pass on the street, probably have some alien ancestry. The way you can identify these people is that their skin is more gray than that of "pure humans."

I don't know anything about identifying aliens, but this woman is an expert. And from what she says, I don't think we have anything to worry about with Elwood. (Gray skin?? I don't think so :) .)

BTW, remember, he can't sing very well, either ;) .

Edit: I just looked at the avatar I have up for today. Ooops! LOL! But I'm sure it's just the effect of the filter they were using for the camera :p .

Originally posted by tgshaw
I don't know anything about identifying aliens, but this woman is an expert. And from what she says, I don't think we have anything to worry about with Elwood. (Gray skin?? I don't think so :) .) Well, but how do you know this self-declared expert isn't an Alien herself, out trying to lull our worries (or hopes) by sending us in the wrong direction when it comes to identifying aliens? Until I am *absolutely* certain she doesn't herself have transluscent pale skin and a bad singing voice, I will remain a sceptic.

(:D , in case anyone wondered)

Originally posted by tgshaw
BTW, remember, he can't sing very well, either ;) .
I have wondered about this, actually. The only singing I've heard him do is "Day-O," which was pretty cute, and he actually can carry a tune! But as for real singing? I know he auditioned for "Moulin Rouge" and had some voice training to do that, but I'm really very curious about how good/bad his singing really is.

It's really not important, but I just love a guy who can sing... :rolleyes:

Originally posted by Luthiea

Oh dear - now I am having rather childish visions of Faramir holding the Ring up just out of Frodo's reach, and a desperate Frodo jumping up and down trying to grab it back! :o :eek:


:eek:

Yikes! Both my book and movie Frodo's have dignity - I don't care to envision that particular scenario! :)

Spoiler Talk Here!




Originally posted by Maeglian

I am not very surprised at that spoiler. I think it fits in very well with my own speculation yesterday.

I wasn't surprised, either, for much the same reason. Someone somewhere suggested that PJ quite consciously releases spoilers on some of the bigger changes, to give purists and semi-purists and readers of the books time to adjust to the changes before watching the movie (I seem to remember Ariel saying something about jumping up and shouting, "NOOOOO!" at the Fords had she not known about it before hand). I'm getting to the point where I think he doesn't just release spoilers - he trickles them out carefully so that people come to the logical conclusion before he confirms it. :eek: Is PJ that smart? Maybe he's the alien!

Originally posted by Maeglian

I am half delirious with joy at this spoiler nevertheless, because IMO it means that PJ is cranking the Frodo angst in the Faramir encounter up to the max!!

Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes!!!!

But I don't want to lose Frodo's speech about what Gandalf says he must do and (particularly) The Swoon into Faramir's arms. And I'm thinking that's probably out.

*sigh*

I just want everything great from the book - and more!

Originally posted by Maeglian

Poor Frodo, full of fear, panic and anger at the prospect of losing the ring, fighting his "Gollum-like" craving for it and his need to hang on to it. Frantic at the thought that if *he* doesn't fulfill his mission, noone else will, and *that* means the end of ME; - and the bleak future he saw in Galadriel's mirror. No wonder he looks so very desperate!

Sheryl sighs happily at the very thought.

Originally posted by Maeglian
But I may need lessons in how to handle disappointment if PJ doesn't deliver on my expectations now, because I am *not* entirely rational about this anymore.....

Ditto, and while I think the changes could be soooo great (so long as Faramir isn't turned into a git, but instead is more cautious about violating the rules he has vowed to follow - IIRC, he should have killed Frodo and Sam on sight, according to his orders), I am trying very hard not to anticipate too much and ruin it for myself.

Maeglian, you are Not Helping. I'm getting no help what-so-ever from the Faculty OR the Harem on keeping my anticipation in line. Why I keep coming back for this I dunno...





Spoiler Talk Ends

Originally posted by tgshaw

(But I have to keep some of the "age" thing in my head, or the whole alternate history idea falls apart and I have to find another way to reconcile the two stories.)

If you view it as history, then there often are two different interpretations, particularly with an event that far back. Documents that don't seem to mesh end up reconciled in different manners, one researcher will decide this person and that person are the same (the two records just spelled their names wrong/one of them got a date wrong), while another researcher decides they are two people, etc. I might view Tolkien as the more accurate researcher on the whole, but OTOH it's possible PJ's got a better grasp of how to reveal some characters as who they really were. (I think his presentation of Boromir is not only more sympathetic, but probably truer to the "real" man, for instance...) :p

Originally posted by tgshaw

That line has always seemed strange to me. Even now when I hear it, it seems like it should be referring to whether he's afraid of Aragorn, since Frodo's just asked "Who are you?"--so it's a bit off kilter for me when Aragorn says, "...I know what hunts you."

I always thought Frodo understood it to mean, "Are you frightened of me?", and he answers it honestly - he's not terrified, but Aragorn has frightened him a bit -, then Aragorn turns the conversation to say, "I'm not the real threat here." Aragorn knows he's come off as threatening, and he means for Frodo to take him seriously, but at the same time he wants Frodo to recognize that he's on his side - that's why he introduces the topic. Frodo, in answering the question honestly, is also telling Aragorn that, though he's frightened, his is a rational fear and not a childish terror. Frodo ought to be frightened - a strong, large human just grabbed him and dragged him off and treated him roughly.

But if he didn't on some level trust Aragorn, he would never have been that honest. He would have parried the comment (book Frodo would have been more wary from the git go, but movie Frodo is willing to trust his gut on Aragorn already). I've always thought it a very efficient scene - Frodo, even young Frodo, after being handled roughly by a clearly dangerous complete stranger who knows far too much, is cool enough to take him on. Aragorn half throws him into the room, treating him like a child - Frodo ignores that, retains his dignity, and speaks to him firmly and calmly.

Aragorn is taking his measure of the hobbits, particularly of Frodo. He is not impressed with their 'performance' in the Pony - but I think he is impressed by the way Frodo stands up to him, and by the way the others come rushing in to rescue Frodo. He still thinks they're like children in the sense of too impetuous and likely to get into trouble and whining about food - but I think Frodo, at least, earns his grudging respect there.

He's also telling the hobbits - and the audience - that he's taking charge of them, and he's going to get them to safety if he has to drag them kicking and screaming. :D That's my reading of it, anyhow - he sees them as his responsibility, but he's concerned that they won't listen to him so he tries to get in a position of power from the git go. Not perhaps the best way to approach it, but there's probably a reason Aragorn's Not King Yet. :p ;)

As I said elsewhere, I need to develop more appreciation of Aragorn, he's not really my style, so if anyone here has a better understanding of where he's coming from in that scene, I'd sure welcome it. But I think Frodo finds him frightening but is still beginning to trust him, that early on.

I'd thought much the same as tg about Sam and Frodo's relationship - they're both closer to the Introvert-Extravert center in the movie than in the book. I think movie Sam's also older - just as Merry and Pippin are older - and that may be a big part of it, although I never saw Sam as extremely Extravertish anyhow, just on that side of the spectrum.

That picture of Elijah chewing his nails kills me - my sister-in-law does that (or did), that shot just endears him to me even more. :)

Originally posted by tgshaw

This entire post is :rolleyes:, in case anyone starts wondering about me.

It's too late, tg - I've been wondering about the lot of us for months!

I'd forgotten about elda's many "Elijah, stop that!" rants regarding his nail biting - truth is, I've developed a lot of sympathy for his nail biting these last few weeks. Never done it in my life, but I'm beginning to see the appeal! :eek: :eek: :D

Sheryl

Originally posted by BunnieBugs
...but I'm really very curious about how good/bad his singing really is.

It's really not important, but I just love a guy who can sing... :rolleyes:
Well, we know that JLH did her own singing for the TT&T movie and EJW didn't. Of course, I'm sure for that musical masterpiece they wanted only the very best... :rolleyes: :o I'm getting very bad here, aren't I?

Re Aragorn--I did notice that quite early in their conversation (IIRC, it's just before the other hobbits break in) Aragorn says, "You can no longer wait for the wizard, Frodo." So he knows Frodo's name and knows he's expecting to meet Gandalf there, which could either mean he's a friend or a spy; he knows those things in the book, too. I suppose that's where Frodo's intuition has to come in--with the "seem fairer and feel fouler" idea. IMHO, it's too bad the "This is the first time I've feared for him" [paraphrased, I'm sure] line wasn't left in--would help to show they had a longterm relationship and give more meaning to his reaction to Gandalf's death for those who hadn't read the book.

Back at the old Imladris site, on the Fingernails thread (:rolleyes: :p ) they used to mock Elijah's nail-biting mercilessly.

Relative newbie that I was, I rushed to his defense, insisting that any 18 year-old who's playing the lead character in a 15-month movie shoot far, far away from his home, making the Biggest Trilogy Film of All Time out of the Most Beloved Book of All Time had every right to bite his fingernails.

And I stand by those words.:D

I find his nail-biting rather endearing too, and is certainly low on the list of vices. However, you do have to admit that it doesn't look very nice and that it looks downright painful...how the heck can you bite your nails down that far without it hurting?? And as for his other faults...well...I'm guilty of MOST of those myself (with the exception of nail-biting and public urination) and the thing is, he HAS all those faults and is still so sweet. I guess it's nice to know that the sweetness we see in him as Frodo is genuine...although honestly, I don't think it's something that can be acted, no matter how talented the actor. I think that's why we all respond to him as madly as we do!

Oh, and one more thing: if Elwood is in any way descended from aliens that have been infiltrating and interbreeding with us for years, then heck...I openly invite said aliens to come here and take the whole place over!! :p

Speculations, and some spoilers
*
*
*
From Sheryl
But I don't want to lose Frodo's speech about what Gandalf says he must do and (particularly) The Swoon into Faramir's arms. And I'm thinking that's probably out. I'm not giving up hope for either, but I think they won't happen together, in the same scene, like in the book. Let's see:

In this altered storyline, Frodo has to work on Faramir to make him change his mind and let Frodo go his way with the ring. One argument he may want to use, is what Gandalf has said. That would carry weight if movie Faramir knows Gandalf, or at least knows of him. And I think he may, because otherwise Denethor's griping about Faramir looking to Gandalf, and Gandalf turning Faramir from his father, likely may have to go, too.

Now about the swoon (And boy, do I ever want that to be in!!!) I'm thinking it *may* be there...... because it would mirror the times Boromir catches or carries Frodo. Like right after the fall of Gandalf, for instance.

If the swoon *is* in, it would be pure speculation where and how it may happen. But speculation is fun! Perhaps it could happen when Faramir eventually decides to let Frodo go with the ring, and Frodo actually believes it. Frodo's relief and emotions after all that frantic worry, fear and desperation must be quite overwhelming and dizzying. And if it happens like that, it would give the "reformed" Faramir an excellent additional opportunity to prove he's really noble and "high quality", by showing care, consideration and empathy with the poor swooner.
(I almost swoon myself at the thought of this. :rolleyes: )

So I'm holding out hope for the swoon! Won't that be wonderfully angsty, if it still happens in the film!

Also, looking at the spoiler pics posted by Elevensies, I have developed an unexpected interest in the sewer infrastructure of Osgiliath. That one pic *is* from those rumoured sewers, n'est-ce pas? They are large enough to house a whole army of orcs. I wonder how that part of the story will play out......

And that other picture of Frodo and Sam in that blue light (my new avatar)... the sad and weary look on their faces.... Oh!

*
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*
*
End speculation and spoiler talk

From Eldalieva
How the heck can you bite your nails down that far without it hurting?? You can't. I used to bite my nails like that in my teens. Every time you bite them further down, it hurts so bad for a couple of days that it's a real distraction from anything else you'd like to focus on. Then it stops hurting, but the nails take a long time growing back. And judging from EJW's nails, he's a real expert nailbiter with a relatively high tolerance for pain. :eek:

Thank goodness I managed to kick that habit!


Edit: Ack! Where are my manners?

Deluby, thank you so much for the wonderful angsty gifs.
And Gladys, I am very happy to have the movie taming of Smeagol back to stare at! :)

Originally posted by eldalieva
I guess it's nice to know that the sweetness we see in him as Frodo is genuine...although honestly, I don't think it's something that can be acted, no matter how talented the actor. I think that's why we all respond to him as madly as we do!
That's the meaning I've always taken from Sir Ian McK's comment about Elijah's Frodo, when he said the hardest thing for an actor to portray is pure, unalloyed goodness--not, "He's a great actor because he can show that quality even though he's a ...!!!" but that it has to be his genuine nature showing through the character. And the new quotes about him from other cast members in the TTT Visual Companion book just paint the same picture. One reason I want to see that book is to read what he might have had to say about some of the other actors--IMHO sometimes you can learn more about someone through what they say about other people than you can through what others say about them. [And I want that actors' commentary on the SE!]

On painful nailbiting--I wonder if a longtime nailbiter would develop callouses, like someone who plays the guitar eventually does on the pads of their fingers, so it's not as painful. :(

Oh, and one more thing: if Elwood is in any way descended from aliens that have been infiltrating and interbreeding with us for years, then heck...I openly invite said aliens to come here and take the whole place over!! :p
Yes, we don't want to xenophobic, after all. :)

Edit after reading Maeg's post: Just think of all the stories that have made good, angsty use of sewers (hope I'm remembering these correctly): Les Miserables, Phantom of the Opera, Neverwhere...

Hello everyone :)

Wow, I was totally on a high after last night, seeing the new photos and reading those lovely quotes about Mr Wood - it was the swoony equivalent of too much coffee!

I even ended up having a dream about EW aswell! He'd bought a really cool house in Edinburgh (yeah right as if that'd happen!) and I was there. We were all hanging about chatting (he had some male friends over aswell) but I can't remember what was said. Then all the guys went out, leaving me alone in Elijah's new house! I was a bit miffed at being left alone, when they were all out having fun. I must've fallen asleep anyway cos the next thing I knew it was morning. I got up and the place was a real mess! Clothes lying about everywhere. Anyway I started to look for Elijah in all the massive rooms (there was about 6 bedrooms). Eventually I found him in a bedroom - he was lying sound asleep! I just remember looking at him and thinking how beautiful he was and stroking his hand. That was it! I love it when I have nice dreams.

The euphoria continued right through today aswell! I was really happy it was so weird cos usually at some stage reality hits me and I feel depressed, but not today! I was doing some work at college and I was chattering nonstop and singing - one of the boys asked if I was on drugs! :rolleyes: Of course I didn't tell them why I was in such a good mood :D

I'll shut up about that now... ;)

I was speaking to one of my college friends about LOTR today (she's the one who's wanting an elven-style bedroom) and I asked her how she was getting on with reading TTT. I was shocked to find out that although she'd finished TTT, she'd found it confusing and hardgoing to read and didn't want to read ROTK! I said - "Don't you want to find out how it all ends? Get that book in your hand *now*, woman!!! :D Hope she takes my advice :rolleyes:

btw - that first pic of Elevensies posted - Is he asleep there? He looks like he's asleep! :confused:

http://members.truepath.com/bananachunks/elido1.jpg



About the nail thing - I when I was at primary school (about age 10) I had normal nails until this new girl started - she was a nail biter! For some reason I must've thought this was a cool thing to do cos I started doing it aswell! My mum used to put that bitter-tasting stuff on mine to stop me and it worked, my nails are pretty long now. Maybe EW should try the bitter stuff on his nails! Anyway I can cope with him having chewed off nails, it's the smoking that I don't like, him endangering his health :(

I was doing a bit of research of my own today, while I was supposed to be doing college stuff tut tut. I was checking out the prices of the new LOTR books on the net. I went to the shops at lunchtime to see if they had them for sale. I went to WHSmith but after searching for it (I didn't bother doing the sensible thing and asking anyone who worked there if they'd had any in) I couldn't find it :( I went back on the net at college and checked WHSmith's website and it said that it was 6th Nov that they were going on sale, Tescos website said that too. I drove to Tescos on the way home and looked there too but nothing :( So either they'd bought a batch and been beseiged by some TTT-hungry LOTR fans or they'd not got them in yet. Maybe I should take a trip through to Glasgow, they've got better shops there afterall - a bigger WHSmith and a Borders Books too. Either that or get them online. Why are my local shops so inferior?! Hmph.

Any other Brit/Irish Facultiers (am I the only one BTW, with the exception of Eagles Erie - anyone know where she is btw? I've not seen her here for a while?) had any joy in getting the new books?

Bye for now, hope you're all doing good,

Luthiea x

Luthiea, - nothing wrong with being in a good mood! :)

And about the pic you posted, he isn't sleeping, he's really concentrating on the nailbiting. The more bitten-down your nails are, the more difficult it gets to bite them further down. (I kid you not.:rolleyes: )

I checked around a couple of local bookstores today, too. Not a TTT or LotR movie book in sight. What is the matter with these bookstore people?!? This is going to be *the* movie of the year here, 1 out of 4 people went to see FotR, people queued up for weeks to get at those TTT premiere tickets.... Hello!! There is a *market* here!!
:o Sorry. Rant now officially and completely over.


What I'm *really* posting about, is that I just saw that "Osbournes" episode "barking at the moon", the one with the dog problems and Elijah cleaning sofa cushions. There was far too little to be seen of Elijah! And I nearly didn't notice him what with my agitated state caused by the way all those dogs were treated and kept. Anyway, that slight, normal-looking, normal-sounding teenager visiting the Osbournes clashed so thoroughly with all these wonderful images of angsty Fro currently filling my head, - I almost can't believe they are the same person. :confused:


About the sewers: I thought of "Les Miserables" too, straight away.
(But I also thought of Buffy; - the sewers give Angel and all the other vampires the possiblitity of moving around, yet avoiding the light of day. And there *are* similarities between vampires and orcs, so......... We'll see what happens at Osgiliath. )

Originally posted by Maeglian
And about the pic you posted, he isn't sleeping, he's really concentrating on the nailbiting. The more bitten-down your nails are, the more difficult it gets to bite them further down. (I kid you not.:rolleyes: )
Judging from what's visible in the picture, I can also report from experience that if you fall asleep with one leg crossed over the other like that, you'll be awake pretty quick!

I checked around a couple of local bookstores today, too. Not a TTT or LotR movie book in sight.
As soon as I leave the office, I'm going to head over to the university bookstore before I go home--that's where I got my Companion book last year (besides the fact that I get an employee discount ;) ). If they don't have it, I may just wait til Saturday, when I have an appointment a few blocks away from a Borders and a Barnes & Noble. Believe me, after reading what people have said here, if I have to make a special trip somewhere I'm phoning first! I don't know how HarperCollins has been handling all the LotR publicity over the past year, but Houghton Mifflin has been taking every advantage it can, with big in-store displays, etc. (They're also the ones, I believe, who raised the fuss about posting the pics too soon.) It'd really surprise me if they're asleep at the wheel on this one. :confused:

About the sewers: I thought of "Les Miserables" too, straight away.
(But I also thought of Buffy; - the sewers give Angel and all the other vampires the possiblitity of moving around, yet avoiding the light of day. And there *are* similarities between vampires and orcs, so......... We'll see what happens at Osgiliath. )
Hmmm... Are you saying there's a possibility the sewers might not be completely safe :eek: ?

Also--those sewers have to empty out somewhere, and with Osgiliath being situated right on a river are we going to end up with a scene from "Barrels out of Bounds"? ;)

It seems a bit quiet round here, you'd think there was some new reading material on the go and people are glued to books instead of all this internet stuff :p

Maeg - Proper happy good moods are rare for me - I can't remember the last time I was feeling so happy and elated (and over a few pictures and some quotations about EW too, yes I am obsessed!). Having an EW/LOTR fixation must do me some good then!

Oh I never even noticed the fingers in the mouth! :eek: I thought he was leaning on the hand as he slept! LOL!!!! He's having a good old nibble there! :D I didn't even notice the position of his legs either, as tg pointed out.

I was just looking at my own hand there and it is slightly similar to EW's - small, pale and delicate with slim fingers but unfortunately I get yucky veins popping up on mines when I'm too hot :mad: Elijah has lovely hands. btw - does anyone else get a cold hand when they control the mouse when they're on the computer?! My right hand gets freezing when I'm on here!

Oh I hope Frodo and Sam don't meet any Orcs in the sewers! :(

I know, Elijah should've been on The Osbournes more! He seems so nice and normal - not the way most celebrities act when they're on TV. The Osbourne family totally ham it up for the camera. The kids are spoilt - if I swore they way they do in front of my parents that would be it! It is a shame for their animals though - the way the Osbournes scream at them when they poo or pee on the furnishings. Maybe if they'd housetrained them first, eh? It's not the animals fault, Ozzy!

It is a travesty about the lack of LOTR stuff in the shops! Whilst frantically :p searching the shelves in Tesco I noticed several Harry Potter books, numerous cookery books, gardening books and stupid so-called-celebrity autobiographies that seem to be popular just now, let's say you're famous for a year (step forward, Mr Gareth Gates) so you absolutely must write your lifestory and spill all your horrid secrets to the world before the year is out. Also there was Geri Bloomin Halliwell's lastest book (why would anyone want to buy that? I mean, if you want to find out what she's been up to get it out the library - she's rich enough already!) but sadly not a single hobbit in sight :(

Oh I forgot, in my last post I asked if I was the only Brit Facultier but I completely forgot about Blossom! Sorry dear!

:)

Originally posted by shilohmm
Again, I think Ariel and tg see this as a maturity issue, while I see it more as basic personality.

Perhaps you should rephrase that... (another ST quote :p)

I agree with you on the personality examples. I too see book and movie Frodo as very separate entities - and book Fro is the one I fell for first http://web.kcnet.org/arielshouse/Smileys/swoon.gif but movie Fro looks so much like my own mental image (and I also thought brown eyes - but wasn't as certain of that aspect as I was that Frodo had dark hair) that I accepted the changes in his character arc without too many grumbles. Yeah, show Ariel a pretty face or give her massive angst and her head is turned... :rolleyes:

OK... Vita, Goldie - you guys officially make me sick... :p I am beyond flaming jealousy...

Originally posted by Maeglian
I repeat, I am *completely* and utterly captivated by the fiery, frantic, feisty, feral Fro that this scenario calls for! Bring on the angst!

Well, yeah! I think you are probably right about your speculation - and PJ did say that TTT was the film that most dramtically veered off the written storyline. I agree that if he veers off to give us MORE angst, I can most certainly forgive him... and I also share your concerns that if he veered off and it doesn't quite ring true, then I am going to be VERY disappointed.

Originally posted by eldalieva
Elido...BITING HIS NAILS!!! (STOP THAT!!!)

Well, he had to get that 'gnawed off' look somehow! :p



Reading and adding

Y'know, there's one very important consideration on the nailbiting: Elijah cannot stop chewing his nails until after the RotK reshoots are finished! I'm sure it must be in his contract somewhere (like some actresses in TV series have clauses saying they won't cut their hair without approval from the producers). He's already going to look so much older--if he also has fingernails, how will anyone recognize him :eek: ? I'm imagining that just before that picture was shot, PJ said, "While Sean's going over the script, you sit there and chew those nails down a bit. We're going to need a close-up of your hand in the next scene." :p :D

And no luck at the university bookstore (they had a few leftovers from last year tucked away under the shelf of Tolkien's books). The clerk said they'd gotten in a big shipment of books yesterday but they were still being checked in and she didn't know what they were, and that if I call during the day tomorrow the manager can tell me. They have this silly idea, you know, that just because they're a university bookstore they have to give priority to books actually used in classes :rolleyes: .

Originally posted by tgshaw
He's already going to look so much older--if he also has fingernails, how will anyone recognize him :eek: ? I'm imagining that just before that picture was shot, PJ said, "While Sean's going over the script, you sit there and chew those nails down a bit. We're going to need a close-up of your hand in the next scene."
ROTFL!

I wonder if PJ knows how much of a continuity error that hand-double in the scene under the tree roots is? (The only scene in which Frodo has visible fingernails... :D )

Mel

I have been searching for the TTT books too but so far have only been able to find "Making of LOTR". I also saw the "Visual Companion", but they only had the hard back version. I flipped through it and except for the pic of Frodo with Sting at Gollum's throat, there didn't seem to be any other pictures of my two favorite hobbits. I couldn't quite bring myself to pay $30 for a book when I'll be getting my second DVD next week. :rolleyes: Does that make me unacceptably money-oriented? What if I said I was saving for TTT viewings? I figured I could find it in paper back at another store. But I love the "Making of" book. I haven't been able to find the other two books. I'm still waiting to find the one with all the good pictures of Frodo angst. Oh, and I also got a Frodo bookmark, complete with the One Ring. Yeah, I know, I'm a year behind the rest of you, but darn it, every time I looked for one they were always out of Frodo. :(

When I saw the pic of Frodo and Sam at the entrance to the sewers, I concluded that they were storm sewers rather than, er, "waste" sewers. At least I hope so (although my history major background tells me that back in the old days they were pretty much the same thing). Wouldn't that smell lovely mingled with Gollum's "fissshy" fragrance? Frodo's gonna be grubby enough for the next two years without being forced to wade through that stuff. :eek: Can you imagine spending the better part of a year having varying levels of dirt applied to your person on a daily basis? I wonder who kept track of the dirt. The continuity person, maybe. Do you think she/he ran around with Polaroids saying, "No, wait, Frodo needs more dirt on his left cheek." Or is that something the makeup people keep track of? Movies have such interesting job descriptions. :D

I am counting down to the EE DVD. I saw a TV commercial for it tonight. Can't wait, can't wait!!! I wonder if I'll be able to stay up until midnight if they stay open at Best Buy. It's not like I'll be able to skip work and watch it. Unfortunately I'm pretty busy at work. I'm trying to swing days off around Dec 18, though. Wish me luck. The rest of our department wants to have the holidays with their families, or some such lame excuse. Haven't they discovered the really important things in life yet? Cultural improvement should never take a back seat to chatting with siblings, IMHO. :p

Originally posted by Louise
Can you imagine spending the better part of a year having varying levels of dirt applied to your person on a daily basis? I wonder who kept track of the dirt. The continuity person, maybe. Do you think she/he ran around with Polaroids saying, "No, wait, Frodo needs more dirt on his left cheek." Or is that something the makeup people keep track of?

Ok, I had to LOL when I read this. I'd JUST been reading the section on make-up in "The Making of LotR," while I refreshed my screen to see if there were any new posts. Here is what I JUST read (probably right as Louise was posting):
There were two people whose job it was to make mud. We always had a couple of bucket-loads handy.....If they hadn't been on a film before, they'd say:"What do you want to make mud for? Just go dig some up!" They thought I was loony! But of course, you can't go rubbing REAL dirt all over actor's faces, it has to be STERILIZED DIRT - so you have to make it!"

LOL. Maybe that's how Frolijah got that remarkable complexion--continually wearing a mud mask. :D

Originally posted by Narya Celebrian
"It has to be sterilized dirt"

I've sterilized dirt - whoo, what a stench!

Ah, the glamour of movie making... :D

Sheryl

For those who haven't bought/found their TTT books yet, I saw this over at TORN and thought some of you might have missed it there:

guess this might just be in the States, but check anyway. "Borders Holiday Sale -- Friday, November 8-Monday, November 11 -- For four days only, visit any Borders store for fantastic values ....· Buy 2 selected Lord of the Rings paperbacks, get the 3rd Free* *Least expensive items are free or discounted..."

I got my "Making of LOTR" at Border's tonight. However, they only had two movie books, so I would have had to buy something else. Or maybe they intend to have additional stuff on the shelves by tomorrow. Who knows? :rolleyes: I'm somewhat suspicious about the term "selected" (prolly FOTR only, the &$%@#). But some of you might be able to save enough for a viewing or two of TTT. And that's an encouraging thought. :) (No, I'm not a miser, but with year-end taxes and holiday expenses, my bank account is growing "thin" as Elrond would say. I'm just trying to allocate scarce resources.)

Edit: I meant to comment earlier on the fingernail biting: yes, it hurts, especially when you accidentally tear one below the quick (those of you who've accidentally ripped off a nail know whereof I speak). I was a nail-biter until about junior high. My parents tried everything, even bribery. I think I finally just decided it was too embarrassing for a "teen-ager" to do, so I quit. I still chewed on my cuticles though. I guess maybe it's the same oral craving that smokers have (you scientists should let us know for sure). But I do know one thing: if you are a perfectionist and put a lot of pressure on yourself (or someone else does), nail-biting can be a result. And I've read in interviews where someone asked Elijah if he was a straight-A student. He said that he was but that occasionally A minuses would sneak in. If I remember correctly, Elijah said that he was a perfectionist who was never totally satisfied with anything he did. I'm surprised he had any fingers left after playing Frodo in LOTR at the tender age of 18.

Oh, and one more tidbit: I was searching for a quote from Sir Ian M. over at his site. Someone asked him if the movie made him cry at any point. He replied that he did once--at the Frodo and Sam at the Grey Havens scene. So get ready, all you angst lovers, for Frolijah to break your hearts.

Re: Borders Holiday Sale:
I think it applies to those mass market paperback books(the $6.99 ones). They had that promotion couple months ago, and I bought Unfinished Tale, Book of Lost Tales 1 and 2, The Lays of Beleriand, The Shaping of Middle-Earth and The Lost Road there. I'm not sure if it's different this time. I think I'll go check it out this weekend.

Originally posted by Louise
Oh, and one more tidbit: I was searching for a quote from Sir Ian M. over at his site. Someone asked him if the movie made him cry at any point. He replied that he did once--at the Frodo and Sam at the Grey Havens scene. So get ready, all you angst lovers, for Frolijah to break your hearts.That sounds great, but still more than a year away. :(


Was reading an article about Andy Serkis on Guardian: http://film.guardian.co.uk/lordoftherings/news/0,11016,835330,00.html
Here's what he says about the relationship between Frodo and Gollum: "In the film he's quite sympathetic, and I played him as someone who's a key for the audience into what it is to be posessed by the ring. The Smeagol side of his identity begins to emerge in The Two Towers because of his relationship with Frodo."

Frodo and Gollum, Serkis explains, share an uncomfortable bond in the Lord of the Rings as the two people who most closely understand the terrible power the ring exerts on its bearer.

"Frodo pities him... In a way Frodo needs to understand Gollum to understand himself - it's like Frodo being with someone with a terminal illness or with an addict, so he can understand what it's like further down the line. Gollum is a living example of what he's going to turn into, so they have a very strong link."

Oh! Thanks Deluby! I think this one just bears repeating:

In a way Frodo needs to understand Gollum to understand himself - it's like Frodo being with someone with a terminal illness or with an addict, so he can understand what it's like further down the line. Gollum is a living example of what he's going to turn into. I feel both like wailing with horror and dancing around in anticipation of all the angst "further down the line". :o
I wonder if movie Frodo will put any of this into words, talking to Sam for instance, or if it wil be just understood from his actions?

Sterilized dirt? They actually do that? And it smells? Eeeww!

eek, I started a new page. :eek: :D
Well, I think I'll post today's gifs now.
From TTT trailer1 and trailer2:
1. Frodo threatens Gollum with Sting(Trailer 1).
http://www.imagemagician.org/images/deluby6/TTTtrailer1p.gif
http://www.imagemagician.org/images/deluby6/TTTtrailer1p.gif

2. A VERY angry Frodo from Trailer 2. Have we figure out who he's pointing Sting at? Looks to me he's in the rumored sewer of Osgiliath, but it doesn't look like he's stabbing at the camera, he's holding back a little. Maybe Gollum does some nasty thing there?
http://www.imagemagician.org/images/deluby6/TTTtrailer2cp.gif
http://www.imagemagician.org/images/deluby6/TTTtrailer2cp.gif
BTW, is this one flipped? I think we are sure now Frodo holds Sting with his left hand, am I right? Maybe I should flip the last one and see what it looks like? :confused:


3. Frodo falls face down into the Dead Marshes. :(
http://www.imagemagician.org/images/deluby5/TTTtrailer2dp.gif

Just popping in to see if anyone else has heard this. On my local radio station there is an entertainment reporter who comes in every Friday morning to do the weekly entertainment report. Today his top story was about TTT. He said there is a possibility that TTT will be delayed. PJ was so involved earlier in the year in the Oscars, Golden Globes and British acadamy awards, as well as all of the media interviews, etc., following the massive success of LOTR that they got off schedule, and are literally working around the clock trying to get TTT editing finished. The reporter said there is as yet no finished print, and they're worried about having the movie ready in time for a critic preview, to say nothing of making the December 18th opening.

Having planned my life around Dec. 18th :) this really worries me. I never heard anything about PJ possibly not making the deadline for the movie. Quick, someone tell me this guy is full of hot air so I can start breathing again! Has anyone else heard anything about this?

Thank you, deluby, the very telling Andy Serkis quote, and for the new gifs! Backtracking to the lovely meeting Galadriel gifs ... it simply blows me away how much Elijah is able to show, while seeming to do so little. It's all in his eyes, and even that last gif where he's surprised by Galadriel's "One who has seen the Eye!" and his mouth drops open just a little - it's all so beautifully subtle. I think it takes an incredibly confident actor to be assured that the camera would capture every single subtle nuance, and I'm sure it's a very confident director who doesn't demand that his actor over-emote. I wonder how close the camera was to Elijah at the time, and who/what he was looking at during the filming. I wonder the same thing when Elijah screams "Noooo" after Gandalf's fall.

Thank you Elevensies for the Elido pics, and thanks to all of you for the wonderful discussions and speculations. And for letting me know I'm not the only spending way too much time just gazing at these new pics of Frodo. :) :) I don't know how I'm gonna last after TTT, really, I don't. Already now I'm e-mailing these angsty pics of Frodo to RL friends who've very clearly stated their lack of interest in Frodo (no, I don't know why I'm still close friends with them. pah. :p ) and gushing madly about him. If I didn't have the Faculty to come to I think I would have self-combusted from all this pent-up anticipation! :D

I agree with Sheryl about Aragorn and Frodo in the movie Prancing Pony, and also think that the "Are you frightened?" "Yes" exchange is the proof that Frodo backbone is very fine, that he's no pansy, because a pansy would have wet his pants at that moment and blubbered for his life. :p Frodo's just seen the Eye, been scared right of his mind but still has the sense to pull the Ring off his finger, only to be grabbed by some human just as he's breathing a huge sigh of relief, and he's not treated gently either ... and yet he answers calmly and clearly. I was in awe of movieFrodo right then and there. :)



SPOILERS & SPECULATION - contains images




nicked these pics from BagEndInn. Ironically, since my connection is so slow, I'm probably not going to be able to see these pics fully displayed on the page :rolleyes:



http://www.bagendinn.com/images/tttpg19.jpg

Now, the hobbits look very vulnerable, and it touches my heart that they're holding hands ... but is it just me, or is Faramir's man a little of the short side? :p


http://www.bagendinn.com/images/tttpg20.jpg

Has anyone speculated about this pic yet? Is Frodo cradling the Ring in his hand? Has it become so heavy that he needs both hands to support the weight? Or is his hand injured? His knuckles look bruised in the poster pic, but I imagined that might have been the result of him punching Gollum. ;)

I am wondering when the Ring becomes heavy enough that the chain starts to cut into the skin of his neck :( and yet at the same time I am so happy that Fran Walsh and Philippa Boyens (or maybe an AngstMaven-ish make-up lady somewhere along the line) to make sure that injury is prominent. It's stupid of me, I know, but through all my years of FrodoAngst appreciation, it never occurred to me that the Ring's weight would hurt him so. :(


Okay, this is strictly for those who're spoiled as spoiled can be. It's a page from Script magazine[/url] posted at TORN: http://www.theonering.net/movie/scrapbook/large/5078
It's the Fran Walsh and Philippa Boyens interview, and on this page I'm suspecting that they've just given us the ending of the movie here. :) They also talk about Shelob, and what they say makes me respect them all the more ... and makes me all the more batty about how long we're gonna have to wait for RoTK, and how stunning the start of ROTK will be! Anyway, if the ending is going to be what I think it is, then we're talking extreme FrodoAngst here. I'm also more and more convinced that there should be some way to invite Fran and Philippa to join us here. :D I'm beginning to half-believe that at some point in the commentary track, one of the two will sigh and dreamily say, "Elijah Wood shows pain sooooo well, doesn't he?" :D



END SPOILERS & SPECULATION


Edit: Shadow - you posted just before me. :) Yes, that is the story that's going round now. I wouldn't worry about it though. PJ will deliver. Barry Osbourne says so. :) You can check www.theonering.net for details.

Originally posted by Maeglian
Sterilized dirt? They actually do that? And it smells? Eeeww! [/B]
The sterilized dirt they use is not just picked up off the road and used, so it doesn't start out smelling the same way sterilized 'normal' dirt would. More from "The Making of the Trilogy."
So what exactly is the recipe for mud? "You start," reveals Peter Owen, "with corn syrup, that makes it sticky and stops it from drying out; then you add natural earths, such as umber, to give it colour (it's important that your muds match with the earth-colours found at each location); and finish off with pleny of fuller's earth to give it its essential gloopiness. The only problem is that it contains so much sugar that it's a really good bacterial-growth medium. So, we had to store it in the fridge and keep an eye on it - leave it for more than a couple of days and it starts to go off!" "In fact," adds Peter King, "there was a use-by date on every bucket of mud."

I LOVE the "Making of the Trilogy" book - it doesn't wreck the magic for me at all to know how they did things. It only makes me more in awe of the whole huge dedicated group of people who made these movies, and SO impressed with PJ!!!!!!!! I mean - they payed such an incredible attention to detail - matching their mud make-up to the colors of the real dirt in the filming locations - how cool is that?? I recommend it highly - it is hobbit lite, but so chock full of wonderful tidbits of information that it is a true pleasure to read!!!! It convinced me more than ever that very very little of what we see was accidental - these people KNEW what they were trying to achieve, and went to HUGE effort to achieve it.

Edit: Shadow, I've read elsewhere that the FINAL TTT is in the can already. I'm absolutely sure we would have known before now if the release date was going to be delayed - usually that decision is made many months in advance of when a movie is due to be released.

Double edit: Here's another picture of the Frodo / Faramir moment. There is discussion of these pictures taking place in the Faramir thread right now as well, and for anyone interested in unfettered spoiler discussion, there’s a link to TTT spoiler thread in my sig.
http://overthebrandywine.com/A1/LOTR/Frodo/Frodo2/possession.jpg

Wheew! I'm back! One week off and another week to catch up - all of it at work. If the bosses only knew :)

Thanks to all for the facinating conversations of the last two weeks. I'm trying to stay relatively spoiler-free, so I read what's here, but don't follow any of the links provided. If one or two spoilers get past me it's not the end of the world, but I don't want to be sick of the movie before it even opens. As if! :D I have my SE:DVD ordered from Amazon so hopefully it will arrive on or shortly after Nov 12th (just four days to go!), though I do remember when the movie version was released some people here had problems with Amazon not shipping for a week or two. Hopefully it won't be so bad this time. I wonder just how many this will sell? Somebody mentioned pages back about the compeition between SW EP2 and Spiderman being released the same time. As this is the second FOTR to be released I honestly don't think it will compete with the other two. I plan to watch the movie the whole way through and have the new stuff come to me as a surprise. Envy to Goldie and Peaceweaver who've seen it already. AND on the big screen.

OT: But I still bite my fingernails, so I have sympathy for EJW (no excuse for the smoking though!) TGShaw: I suppose I do have sort of callouses on my fingers now - certainly the skin is thick and it's rare that it hurts me to bite my nails. I do give up occaionally but it never lasts more than a couple of months, and at my age I've come to the conclusion that I'm just too old to give up. If EJW was sleeping in that picture, then he must really have a problem! At least I don't bite mine while I sleep!

(((((Luthiea))))) Thanks for remembering me and missing me. I was actually in England last week. I'm afraid I can't answer your query about the books being available over here. I've spent pretty much all of this week just going from work to home. But at the weekend I'll check out what's available and let you know. Oh, Viola lives in Britain so she might be able to help too. I'm trying to remember who else comes from around here. I'm pretty sure Elevenses does. Who else? We should have a roll call.

Sewers eh? People have mentioned Les Miserables, Phantom of the Opera, Neverwhere and even Angel, but nobody has mentioned the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles yet. For shame :D

I do hope TTT isn't delayed beyond Dec 18th. Don't they know they're killing us already without making it even worse. Though I would imagine that there would be an official announcement if there really was going to be a delay. A quick look on imdb doesn't tell me anything except that it's no longer in a status of Post Production. The poster is up and everything - yes that one with no Merry or Pippin (that's what bothers me more than anything - I understand - marketing-wise why Livarwen has to be so big)

Sort of OT again: I saw The Frighteners on TV on Halloween. Actually as I was away, I recorded it, but I thought it was really good. I didn't know what to expect at all. The TV company showed it on Halloween because it was a scary movie (didn't actually find it that scary though) but when I came on here to read that it was also PJ's birthday it made me laugh at the irony.

Mmmm, what else? There's been so much talk that I could comment on but I'll leave that for another day.

(((((Faculty)))))

Oh, it is killing me to skip over the spoiler photos, but so far I am managing.

Deluby, I can't see your most recent gifs. Are you having trouble with your ImageMagician account again?

I am stunned at the news that TTT could be delayed. I hope it's really just evil rumor! I don't want PJ to kill himself getting it done, but I desperately hope that it will at least come out before the end of the year. Shallow, I know, but I want it to be eligible for this year's awards... :p

Actually, he's got even less time than I was originally thinking; isn't the premiere scheduled for as early as the 5th or so? Yikes! :eek: That gives him less than a month. I've got everything cross-able crossed for you, PJ!

Oh, and welcome back, EE! Good luck catching up! :rolleyes:

Per TORN, the above pic is Frodo fighting to resist the Ring--the actual caption on the card is

"Faramir looks on riveted as Frodo struggles against the Ring's control over him."

I thought that "enquiring minds" might want to know. :) Here is the link for some of the other cards:

http://www.theonering.net/perl/newsview/2/1036771359

In no particular order:

EE, the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles were brought up somewhere--probably Narya's thread on the TTT books. But if you're going spoiler-lite, you don't want to go there! Another one I haven't seen mentioned is the old "Beauty and the Beast" TV show. Another connection there, for those who don't know, is that the hero (the "beast") on that show was played by the same actor who played "Pap" to EJW's Huck Finn; it'd be hard to find two characters more different from each other!

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deluby--on the two gifs of Frodo with Sting. Those seem to be two completely different occasions, so I don't think one of them has to be "flipped." Both book and movie Frodos are right-handed, so usually hold the sword in that hand. The left-handed "Taming of Smeagol" shot probably comes from PJ wanting to use the exact positions as in the Alan Lee painting--and/or from Frodo having to attack from an unusual angle. I'd be surprised to see him holding Sting left-handed in any other scenes (as a lefty, I'll just have to keep cheering for Isildur every time he leads his troops on-screen ;) ).

------------------

My inner purist l-o-v-e-s those remarks about the relationship between Frodo and Gollum. That's just how it should be! :) :) (I think it's significant that Bilbo, Frodo, and Sam each have a chance to kill Gollum and don't--after they've worn the Ring. IMHO, there's an empathy there that they couldn't have otherwise.

-------------------

There was a worry about a delay in the release last year, too. Of course, I'm not 100% sure--not being a mindreader or a personal friend of anyone who'd know--but I'm not too worried this year. IMHO these rumors come from one of the similarities between PJ's work and JRRT's (probably part of the reason PJ can adapt it so well)--neither of them seems to be able to finish anything. They just have to stop at some point (JRRT for his publishers and PJ for the movie release).

Last year I was really concerned when the reports came out that everyone on the project was working feverishly to try to get FotR out on time. But after learning more about the process they were going through--and the people involved--I realized they were working to get it as good as they possibly could within the time allowed. Can you imagine PJ sitting back and saying, "Okay, I know we've got two weeks before the deadline, but that's as good as it's going to get so you might as well take it the way it is." :eek: I'm sure there's always one special effect that could be just a bit better, one shot that could be lit in a better way, one line of dialogue or one moment of film to cut out or restore, one more minor blooper or continuity problem to deal with... and probably a lot of other things I'm not even aware of. So, is there a "feverish pace" on the job this year? I wouldn't want it any other way! :)

Welcome back EE, good to see you again! :)

I don't believe that the film has been delayed to after Dec. 18 for a minute. Too much hinges on that date, cinemas have been booked, promotion planned, and tickets are being sold. Actually, the news report that TTT is the box office winner here this week. The advance sales for TTT are cashing in more than any film currently in the cinemas. So no, I don't believe in this delay story.

Ainon, good to see you back here too, and bringing such *lovely* gifts!!! :cool: :)


Various spoilers, comments and speculation
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It just *had* to be the ring causing Frodo such difficulty and pain in those pictures with Faramir. Palm up shots of Frodo means the ring is involved, period. (At least that's been the case so far, I think.)
In the one where he's looking up and cradling his one hand with the other, isn't Frodo crying there? I think I see a tear? (Or am I hallucinating? For some reason that wouldn't entirely surprise me!) Poor dear... I wonder what exactly is going on. He's struggling against the ring's control, OK, but is the ring giving him pain because he's about to hand it to someone else, although unwillingly? Is it burning him? Perhaps it's impacting his mind and *forcing* him to show the ring to Faramir even though he doesn't want to do that, and fights to keep it hidden? Since the ring has a will of it own, it might see Faramir as a better new "owner" than Frodo?

Not that speculating about this makes it clearer. :rolleyes:


This one worries me, though; - One of the other captions on those cards reads:
Faramir takes Frodo and Sam to the sewers under Osgiliath which will give them "a secret way into Mordor...The fate of all Middle-earth hangs on what happens here." The fate of Middle Earth hangs on what happens in the sewers?? :confused: They give them a way into Mordor?? Anybody understand this? Does that mean the crossroads and Minas Morgul are out........ ? What about the stairs? :eek: A lot of F&S action taking place in a sewer, that's kind of a downer.


Oh, but do I ever *love* that picture of the poor blindfolded hobbits! :o


Ainon, I am not certain I caught what the ending of TTT will be, in that interview with FW and PB? Perhaps someone could make that clearer to me? Anyway, I am in disagreement with those ladies about Helm's Deep and Shelob being too much at the end of one film. I would be able to handle that just fine. But then I am not especially emotionally invested in the Helm's Deep battle, spectacular though it likely will be.


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End spoiler, speculation etc.

Narya, thanks for the info on the making of movie mud! It's all so interesting, I must get hold of that book!

Otherwise I think I'm about to go into anticipation overload completely. I can't get enough spoilers. I wonder if it'll ruin the film watching experience. Perhaps someone who did the spoiler thing last time around can give some "survivor" tips? :)

Originally posted by Louise

Oh, and one more tidbit: I was searching for a quote from Sir Ian M. over at his site. Someone asked him if the movie made him cry at any point. He replied that he did once--at the Frodo and Sam at the Grey Havens scene. So get ready, all you angst lovers, for Frolijah to break your hearts.

Oh Louse, just the thought of that scene - angst-heaven!!! There won't be a dry eye in the house.

Hi, Luthiea - I forgive you for forgetting me earlier! :( (sniffle) I haven't been able to get into town yet to browse the book-shops, but I just visited Amazon to check out all the titles available. I'm putting them on my Christmas pressie list for Hubby and the in-laws. I figure I can wait a while for them, what with the SE DVD next week, then TTT in a month or so, and it means I'll have some new LOTR stuff for Christmas. I know what you mean about all those 'celebrity' autobiographies. I mean - Gareth Gates (do I hear a chorus of Faculty Loungers crying 'Who the heck is Gareth Gates?') - writing his life story. He's 18, for goodness' sake! What's that? Elijah is only 21. Oh.

Those great new pics just make you want to see TTT NOW! And those lovely quotes about Elijah make you appreciate him even more. Like you, Tg, I would be interested to read his comments on the other actors - it was probably a mutual appreciation society they had going there.

I am planning a final viewing of 'Fellowship' tomorrow night, before I get the SE DVD on Tuesday. My sister bought the video MONTHS ago, and still has not watched it! :eek: Her excuse - 'But I haven't had three hours to spare.' (what is wrong with the woman?) So we - OK - I, have invited her and her partner, and our 10 year old nephew over to watch the DVD. Not that I put any pressure on, of course! I SO want them to love it. I must sort my 'Quiet at the back, please' signs out!:)

Do you think it will go quiet in here next week, with everyone absorbing all the new stuff on the DVD? Or will we all be popping in and out exchaging opinions as we watch it? I can't wait to hear the cast commentary - that will be the first one I'll listen to, closely followed by PJ & co. And those new extras - lots and lots to look forward to, ladies. Should be fun! Enjoy.:)

See you soon. Bye all.

Edit. My goodness, at least six new posts have appeared while I was writing this - I'm going back to catch up. Bye again.

Originally posted by tgshaw
My inner purist l-o-v-e-s those remarks about the relationship between Frodo and Gollum. That's just how it should be! :) :) (I think it's significant that Bilbo, Frodo, and Sam each have a chance to kill Gollum and don't--after they've worn the Ring. IMHO, there's an empathy there that they couldn't have otherwise.
My inner purist loves the Frodo-Gollum relationship comments, too. But it seems odd that the Ring would impart empathy to its wearer -- that must be in the nature of the hobbits themselves. The Ring, I think, tries to twist empathy to selfishness.

spoiler....











But if Gollum is not responsible for leading the way into Shelob's Lair, and if Gollum doesn't have that near-repentance moment, my inner purist is going to FREAK!







/spoiler

Mel

Originally posted by Maeglian
Various spoilers, comments and speculation
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Perhaps it's impacting his mind and *forcing* him to show the ring to Faramir even though he doesn't want to do that, and fights to keep it hidden? Since the ring has a will of it own, it might see Faramir as a better new "owner" than Frodo?
That would certainly fit with the one speculation that made any sense as to why the Ring came off when Frodo had his little tumble on Caradhras but stayed on while the Watcher in the Water flung him hither and yon. It probably would have preferred Boromir over Frodo as Ring-bearer, but it wouldn't have done it much good to fall off into the pool. It's even closer to Gondor now, with Boromir dead Faramir is next in line for the stewardship, and Daddy Denethor's already pretty much under Sauron's influence. If the Ring could control Faramir, the Nine could retire to Minas Morgul without fighting one battle.

This is definitely the movie-Ring, though (we've had movie-Frodo and book-Frodo, guess we can do the same for the Ring?). IMHO, it has its own will in a much stronger and quite different way than the book-Ring does. In the movie, since that's how the Ring has been characterized, I wouldn't have any problem with that scenario.

The only anxiety-producing thing I'll say is that in that second picture I sure hope that's pain on Frodo's face and not an evil grin :eek:

This one worries me, though; - One of the other captions on those cards reads:
Faramir takes Frodo and Sam to the sewers under Osgiliath which will give them "a secret way into Mordor...The fate of all Middle-earth hangs on what happens here." The fate of Middle Earth hangs on what happens in the sewers?? :confused: They give them a way into Mordor?? Anybody understand this? Does that mean the crossroads and Minas Morgul are out........ ? What about the stairs? :eek: A lot of F&S action taking place in a sewer, that's kind of a downer.
The one thing I'm thinking of here is something I wish I wasn't. We were talking about possibly running into orcs in the sewers. There wouldn't possibly be... a really... really... big SPIDER down there, would there? :eek: and :eek: :eek:

...a secret way into Mordor (not just out of Osgiliath).
...no sign of Gollum lately to guide them.
...the fate of Middle-earth hanging on what happens in the sewers.
...and that super-angry Frodo with Sting pic--definitely from Osgiliath and maybe in the sewers--could fit at the point where Frodo's using Sting to cut through the web.

I very much hope I'm wrong. :(

OTOH, we know the scene inside CU was shot (and, yeah, I know--shot doesn't necessarily mean seen on the screen). If Shelob's "in" at all, which doesn't seem to be questioned at this point, her only real purpose in the story is to sting Frodo. If he was stung at Osgiliath (lots of orcs around, remember), Sam would just have to follow the orcs a lot farther--or not, with the way the geography contracts so often in the movie.

But if any of this is right, I sure couldn't give any good reason for it. :confused:


Anyway, I am in disagreement with those ladies about Helm's Deep and Shelob being too much at the end of one film. I would be able to handle that just fine. But then I am not especially emotionally invested in the Helm's Deep battle, spectacular though it likely will be.
This is one thing I tend to agree with the filmmakers on, but not because of Helm's Deep. I do think it'd be hard to have half of the Shelob action in one movie and the other half in another movie a year later and have any kind of continuity for the audience. Besides, don't we want as much fabulous Frodo acting as possible in RotK?? We wantssss that Ossscar.... ;)

Otherwise I think I'm about to go into anticipation overload completely. I can't get enough spoilers. I wonder if it'll ruin the film watching experience. Perhaps someone who did the spoiler thing last time around can give some "survivor" tips? :)
I'll have to come back and pick this question up later. My boss just brought in some work he actually wants me to get done this afternoon :rolleyes: .

Originally posted by tgshaw
Re Aragorn--I did notice that quite early in their conversation (IIRC, it's just before the other hobbits break in) Aragorn says, "You can no longer wait for the wizard, Frodo."

Right after Aragorn faces off with the others, actually. (Before didn't sound right so I checked. We will not discuss how often I watched that clip without going to the movie... :p :D) I think that Frodo's line of thought is that Strider knew Frodo was to meet Gandalf there, knew about the RingWraiths, doesn't turn them over to the Wraiths but hides them and says he's going to help them - Hey, at bare miminum, Strider's a better deal than the Nazgul. And what else is he going to do? Sit around until Gandalf shows up? After going invisible in the middle of the Pony, he's not safe there, even if he knew Gandalf was going to show up for sure. I do think he instinctively trusted Strider, but "No other choice" was not a great exaggeration.

Goldie,
I don't think I was around when you were actually posting, but I did read through and cheer you on after the fact when you defended EW in the Fingernails thread. :)

Luthiea,
That does sound like a lovely dream. I'm jealous. I know I had an EW dream the other day, but after I woke up I couldn't remember what happened. :p

Originally posted by Ariel

Perhaps you should rephrase that... (another ST quote )

Yes, and IIRC, Spock said it to Kirk after Kirk had been deliberately insulting. :eek: I was just spacing out, honest! :D

Originally posted by Ariel

Yeah, show Ariel a pretty face or give her massive angst and her head is turned...

Sheryl plays by the same rules... Nah, I don't even demand a pretty face. Tolerably good actor and massive angst, I'm happy.

Originally posted by Ariel

Reading and adding

Or maybe just reading... ;)

Welcome back, EE!

Originally posted by Maeglian

I feel both like wailing with horror and dancing around in anticipation of all the angst "further down the line".

Excellent angst always makes me want to move and to cry. Makes it tough if I'm in the theatre. :p :D

Originally posted by Maeglian

Sterilized dirt? They actually do that? And it smells? Eeeww!

LOL! It only smells while you're sterilizing it.

Going on Narya's quote, I think I'd rather have "real" sterilized dirt than theirs - corn syrup? Depending on the location and time of year, I'd think wasps and bees could be a problem if you're wearing the stuff. :p

Thanks muchly for the picture, Narya, except that it's tempting me toward your spoiler thread, and I vowed I wouldn't go there...

Maeglian,
Your speculations on the spoiler pics are making me crazy. But trust Mel to bring me back to earth. :rolleyes:

Mel,
What a horrible thought! Don't even suggest such a thing!

I wouldn't worry too much about the captions on the cards and even in the books - remember "Frodo Marvels at the Snow Peaks" from FOTR?

Sheryl

edit:
Spoilers here to end!
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Originally posted by tgshaw


The only anxiety-producing thing I'll say is that in that second picture I sure hope that's pain on Frodo's face and not an evil grin

Sheryl would like her trout back now. She's found an important use for it.

I don't buy all that sewer speculation. It's my conviction that the fate of Middle Earth hangs on Frodo and Sam getting out of there and on their way back to Mordor; the sewers are just the first step on what that phrase refers to.

And when EE mentioned the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, my first thought was Beauty and the Beast as well. :)

I don't know that Faramir will ever try to take the Ring from Frodo - sure hope not - but even if he considered it, the violence of Frodo's reaction could explain why he'd "risk" leaving it in Frodo's hands. It could even be that he intends to carry the Ring "for safe keeping" - until he sees what it wouild cost Frodo to give it up.

I can't imagine why Frodo would be showing him the Ring there voluntarily - it isn't just Faramir, there's someone in the background wandering by so there are others about - but in the movie the Ring is displayed more freely (Frodo setting it on the plinth in the Council of Elrond), so I dunno.

I like Maeglian's thought that the Ring wants to be seen, and Frodo's "fighting" to keep it hidden. The movie Ring does seem to have a mind of its own, and it may be that Frodo is more aware of what it's up to since he's been dealing with it longer, so it wouldn't be able to slip out of his pocket so easily or whatever. But even on Caradhras, Frodo checked for it immediately - habit, or awareness of loss?

I *don't* like speculation that Shelob's in these sewers, nope!

Maybe I do have a few purist instincts after all. ;)

Sheryl





End spoilers

Hello all - delurking to say whew! so much to read I've barely been able to keep up. Just a heads for all to check out the November 15 Entertainment Weekly - it has Elijah and Liv on the cover (and another photo of them inside along with TTT shots). It's the Holiday Movie Preview issue and features a TTT article.

(Interesting note - Elijah is posed with Liv on the cover so that he looks definitely taller than Liv.)

Back to reading and lurkdom. :)

Assuming that I can find a copy of the Collector's Edition DVD on Tuesday, hubby and I have just made a "date" to watch it straight through on Tuesday night. "Let's make it an event!" he says. (I love that man!) :k

Then the next thing I want to do? I'm absolutely dying to hear the hobbits' commentary! I so love those boys and their interaction... :D Not sure which special feature will come after that. Ooh... and then there are the Easter Eggs. I have heard of a couple of them on the DVD.

I don't think it will be quiet around here for more than a day before everyone starts putting in their 2 cents (or 50! :rolleyes: ) about all the stuff on the DVD. Although, I may avoid reading much of it until I've had a chance to peruse a good deal of it. Except, how many hours of extras are there? Thirty or so? Yikes! :eek:

New Scans of Entertainment Weekly, Nov. 15th issue!!!

http://www.geocities.com/sammienblue/lotrinfo/pix/ewholidaypreview111502.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/sammienblue/lotrinfo/pix/ewholidaypreview111502b.jpg

---edit---Add a new pic

http://a552.g.akamai.net/f/552/606/1d/image.pathfinder.com/ew/dynamic/imgs/021107/164433__1lotr_l.jpg

NICE!!!!swoon http://www.imagemagician.org/images/deluby/love3.gif

---edit---You can read it on EW's site now. http://www.ew.com/ew/report/0,6115,388308~1||388536~0~,00.html

You can read all 10 pages here:
http://www.geocities.com/sammienblue/lotrinfo/news.html
Since the site takes quite a while to load, here are the direct links to those scans:
Pg30 (http://www.geocities.com/sammienblue/lotrinfo/pix/ewholidaypreview111502a.jpg) Pg32 (http://www.geocities.com/sammienblue/lotrinfo/pix/ewholidaypreview111502c.jpg) Pg35 (http://www.geocities.com/sammienblue/lotrinfo/pix/ewholidaypreview111502d.jpg) Pg36 (http://www.geocities.com/sammienblue/lotrinfo/pix/ewholidaypreview111502e.jpg) Pg39 (http://www.geocities.com/sammienblue/lotrinfo/pix/ewholidaypreview111502f.jpg)
Ad for the SE DVD:
http://www.geocities.com/sammienblue/lotrinfo/pix/ewholidaypreview111502g.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/sammienblue/lotrinfo/pix/ewholidaypreview111502h.jpg
And a scan of SE DVD review, but it's upsidedown. :rolleyes:
I'll fix it and repost soon if the webmaster doesn't. (edit: done)
http://www.imagemagician.org/images/deluby/ewholidaypreview111502i.jpg

Look! Forced perspective can make EW look like he's taller than Liv! The boy may have a career as a leading man ahead of him after all! ;) :D


spoilers.....



















I would also be really, really upset if Faramir sends them off to wherever they put Shelob. No, no, no!!!! Reluctantly lets them go cause he sees no other way, but not without really deep misgivings! If Faramir in at any way becomes responsible for Frodo getting stung.... :mad: :mad: :mad:

Mel waits for erendis to read this... :eek:














end spoilers

Mel

Originally posted by deluby
New Scans of Entertainment Weekly, Nov. 15th issue!!!

You can read all 10 pages here:
http://www.geocities.com/sammienblue/lotrinfo/news.html


Wow! Thanks, deluby - what a great article. I'm going to have to break down and buy the puppy. :p

originally stated by Peter Jackson regarding Gollum
"We've been studying a lot about what makes one actor more compelling than another... With the animation we were doing, Gollum was always moving because we were like, 'Look, he can twitch his cheek and curl his lip up!' But that was completely wrong. The most powerful performance will be the restrained performance."

Ellipsis in original - I wonder if he mentioned EW as an example in there. :D ;)

Two PJ mottos:

"One day at a time, each day to perfection."

"Pain is temporary, film is forever."

I think I'd heard that second one connected to PJ before. And EW says PJ lost his cool at least twice during the 18 months of shooting. Horrors! :rolleyes: :D

Where does one go to swoon for PJ?

;)

Sheryl

Evening All :)

((((EE)))) - there you are! I was beginning to wonder! Welcome back! :)

Regarding the infamous Nails again, Mel, I noticed another scene where they used a stand in - when Frodo asks Aragorn if he would destroy the Ring at the end and gently closes Frodo's fingers over the Ring - it's not Elijah's hands! I suppose they needed the stand-in so you could see the difference between the size of Frodo's and Aragorn's hands but it puzzles me why they felt the need to use the stand-in during the tree-root scene - it was only a close up of Frodo's hand and the Ring after all, and there was other times when they had close ups of Elijah's real hands holding the Ring (ie when Frodo looks at the writing on the Ring in Bag End, those nails are definately Lij's!).

Brilliant Deluby, thanks for those scans. Luthiea is transfixed by the cover of the mag - the Eyes, the Eyes...

I'm getting the SE DVD for Xmas, I think. I asked my mum and dad tonight if they wouldn't mind doing the honours and getting me it. We looked it up on several websites - Tesco.co.uk are selling it for only £23.99 plus p&p which is good. I will just have to content myself with my FOTR video (if I ever get it back from my friend) until Xmas day (either that or maybe it could become an early Xmas present?:D BTW are any of you getting the version with the Argonath bookends?

Still on a quest for the books.

shilohmm - I hate that when you can't remember a dream! You know you had it and you occasionally get a tiny 'flash' of what happened but not enough to remember it by! Or even worse - when things are just getting interesting ;) then you wake up! :mad:

{{{Blossom}}} - I don't think we should inflict Gareth Gates on The Faculty anymore than is necessary! Suffice to say (looks around slyly) that he is a by-product of the marketing machine that is 'American Idol's' Brit-export 'judge' Simon Cowell! At least Elijah would have some really interesting things to put in a book (not that I think he'd bring out a book).

tg - I think it's pain on his face, pain and maybe grim determination that he's trying not to let the Ring take over him?

About the rumours about TTT not being finished for Dec 18th - this has been a secret worry of mine for months! It has been at the back of my mind for a while - imagine the disappointment there would be if they didn't have it ready in time or something happened and they couldn't get it finished *at all*!I wanted to jokingly mention something to you guys before but I didn't want to tempt fate! :eek:

Well I'm going to see Chamber of Secrets tomorrow night. I'll let you know what I thought of it - probably something along the lines of 'It was good but won't hold a candle to TTT!'

Hey, this is my 31st post! Wonder if I can get my avatar now?! I tried last night after I'd got my 30th post by copying the properties from my CoE avatar into my profile here but it didn't work, wonder if it'll work now or if I'm doing something wrong? I want my avatar - I miss the wee guy!

I just half-inched this from another messageboard, it's a couple of clips from the SE DVD, so a Spoiler zone! Including Gandalf using the Black Speech at the CoE (quite creepy sounding!) and Frodo tentatively asking Gandalf if Mordor is 'left or right' which is really sweet.

http://www.warofthering.net/downloads/movietrailers/fotr_sedvd_onE.rm


My mum just sliced her finger open whilst cutting some meat - the second time in a month! She stupidly went and rinsed it under the tap instead of putting pressure on it - duh! I thought she'd cut it off to at first the noise she made! :eek:

Hugs,

L

I'm not worried about that rumor of TTT being delayed at all. Internet media always grab an article they find on the net, then add a bit here and there, and in the end it gets misinterpreted. IMDB often posts rumors as news.:rolleyes: Unless it's from industry site like Hollywood Reporter or Variety, I'm not gonna believe it at all. I bet they will deliver TTT on time. Even if they are still editing it, it's not much of a surprise either, other film makers work till the last minute too. And I think it's a good thing. Why let the film sit in the can while there's still time to do little touch-ups to make it near perfect?

Luthiea---Hope your mom's finger is ok!
I cut my finger with scissors yesterday for the first time ever. :rolleyes: Despite of what mom has been telling me since I was little, I'd never believed one can snip one's finger with scissors, well until yesterday. :p And it wasn't even a pointy one. I was actually amused, it's like "oh wow, it CAN cut an open on my finger after all! hmmm...owww, bandage!!" :D

BunnieBugs--Are you still unable to see those gifs ? They are working fine for me here. :confused: But Imagemagician is testing some new sever software, so that might has something to do with it.

----EDIT----
I've added a new pic from EW's photo shot in my last post, and also a link to EW's online version of that holiday movie preview article.

Originally posted by deluby
BunnieBugs--Are you still unable to see those gifs ? They are working fine for me here. :confused: But Imagemagician is testing some new sever software, so that might has something to do with it. Yes, they are there now. Thanks! ::rightclicksaves::

Update on that IMDB rumor: IMDB Correction: TTT Is Finished
Demosthenes @ 11:07 pm EST


This just posted on IMDB:

According to a New Line Cinema publicist, reports citing that the upcoming Lord Of The Rings: The Two Towers are incomplete are, in fact, erroneous, and that the movie will make its December 18th release on schedule, with no delays of any kind.

Previous coverage had cited that New Zealand moviemaker Peter Jackson was facing a frantic month of re-editing, due to the fact that the director had been busy ever since the first film picked up multiple awards at the Oscars and British Academy Awards earlier this year.

New Line has said that this is incorrect.

Potentiallly BIG SPOILERS
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I have a picture of Shelob's Lair with a short accompanying paragraph:




When Frodo and Sam find their route to Mordor through the Black Gate blocked, Gollum suggests another way. But Gollum is not to be trusted. For his suggested route will take them through Cirith Ungol the foul lair of the evil Shelob...

Anyone interested in a more detailed description of the actual pic can find it in the books' Spoiler thread over in The Trilogy but it don't look like the sewers to me.
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>END SPOILERS

Originally posted by Maeglian, in reference to an interview with Fran Walsh & Philippa Boyens posted by ainon:
I am not certain I caught what the ending of TTT will be, in that interview with FW and PB? Perhaps someone could make that clearer to me?


WARNING: Mega-spoiler speculation! (Highlight to view.)
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I think the clue is in the section of the interview where the interviewer mentions "a brief discussion between Frodo and Sam on the nature of tales" at the end of TTT (the book). FW & PB then go all coy and end by saying "I don't think you're going to be unhappy when you see the movie."


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End potential spoiler.


I'll just repeat the link to the interview for those who want to check it -- click here. (http://www.theonering.net/movie/scrapbook/large/5078)

The more I see these new TT pics, the more :confused: I become. What's all this with Fro and Sam in Osgiliath anyway? And in the sewers! It is very worrying for us all who have savoured seeing Frodo's 'confrontation' with the Wiki as the Orc army pass through the gate, and various other favourite scenes. After the Wiki departs, Frodo weeps, thinking about Faramir, wondering if he got to Osgliath before the army. Looks like major changes there! And the thought of the sewers being a short cut into Mordor - we wants the crossroads. We wants CU.

We knew PJ would make changes, but I'm slightly worried now that some of my most 'must see' clips won't be there. I wonder if Gollum is there with them in Osgiliath. Gollum MUST lure Frodo into Shelob's Lair. He MUST!

Am I worrying needlessly? I love the thought of pumping up the angst between Frodo and Faramir, but am not very impressed with the idea of Faramir actually taking the ring from Frodo. Looking at the second picture that Narya posted - the pained Frodo - Faramir is looking at him with some sympathy, I think.
Enaiowen - I must take a look at those spoilers regarding Shelob's Lair you mentioned.

All this is sheer speculation, I know, and maybe we are all reading things into these spoilers that aren't there, and it will all be OK, and everything will be just as we want it to be!!! This is doing my head in!!!

deluby - thanks again for those wonderful gifs. Oh, and the EW/Liv pics. Not that I want pics of Liv on my PC, but Elijah looks sooooo... erm :) :) :) ... lovely there, I'm prepared to put up with that!

Hope all the scissor cuts/fingers are healing nicely. You clumsy people! All this anticipation must be affecting our nerves. Even your mum seems to have come out in sympathy with us, Luthiea. (Marty Feldman indeed!)

I will not worry... I will not worry... PJ will deliver... EW will shine (that goes without saying - I am not in the least worried about that)... I will not worry... I will not worry. I'm raving now. :rolleyes:
Blossom is carried away kicking and screaming. Goodbye.

Blossom, I know the feeling! This is doing my head in!!! Mine too! I'm experiencing something akin to the "High Faramir Anxiety" that the Faramites are going through; - could it be "High Shelob Anxiety"? :rolleyes: From the spoilers it looks like so much may have been cut from the story. But why on earth would there be sewers all the way up into the mountains? No, I think it *is* still there, the mental fight with the Wiki, Gollum leading them and his near-reformation, the stairs....... Yet I look at this sentence and I can't help but worry a little:
...the fate of Middle-earth hanging on what happens in the sewers. This wonderful epic full of majesty and grandeur and courage can't possibly be boiled down to *that*. Get them out of those sewers quick, I say!! :(

Enaiowen, thank you for your spoiler. That certainly alleviates my worries a little. I couldn't find that Shelob's lair pic anywhere over in the Trilogy, though. Which thread is it in?


Wow, those pics from Ent. Weekly are great!! What Mel said entirely - EJW can *so* play the leading man. Just look at that. They've made a real effort to make him look taller, though..... It really looks good although I will continue bemoaning that it is deemed necessary by the Industry to do it. Has Hobmom seen these pics yet? (Must check out, just have to save them first). They're great. Return of the blue shirt to go with the eyes and all. :o


Luthiea, returning to the nailbiting once more, I have read that the scene under the tree root with the Black Rider was the very first scene filmed, and that may be why EJW still has some vestige of nails left there. Then as filming progressed, he obviously chewed them down, and who can blame him. What a pressure that role must have been on an 18-year old.

Squires_Lass, good to see you de-lurking for a moment! :)


Gladys, thank you, thank you, now I got it! I initially read that as if that scene would be *in*, not that it would *end* the film. But that would be lovely and *so* perfect; - and really a very nice open-ended way to close one film and let the audience wait for what may happen in the next. I hope, hope, hope that this speculation comes true!!! (Maeg thinks about that for a moment and happily swoons - for the film!)

Sheryl, I like to think of all my general gushing, joy and admiration over these films in here as my "swooning
over PJ". :)

Originally posted by tgshaw
The only anxiety-producing thing I'll say is that in that second picture I sure hope that's pain on Frodo's face and not an evil grin :eek:

I'm sure that's pain we see. Because we know now that FW and PB are sick and will inflict pain at every opportunity. They are so totally sick. In that nice angst-favourable way. :D I mean, have you ladies been following up on the Aragorn spoilers? Sick. Absolutely, deliciously sick. :D :D

My computer is struggling gamely to download all these precious pics. I'll see how much I can reply while the pics come in. deluby - thank you, thank you, thank you. :k

Luthiea, thanks for the video link. Will have to try that some other time. Meanwhile, hope your mom is safe and sound now. ;)

Eyrie, enaiowen and SL - wonderful to see you all again! SL, don't stay in that dark lurkdom place. Step out here and drool ... err ... I mean *discuss* with us. :)

Btw, estella rose told me last week that she'll be absent from the faculty for a while. Bugger that RL, huh.

About the PB & FW article, Maeg - what Gladys said. :) And I think the two lovely ladies are hinting how RoTK will start off too. ;)

I'll join Maeg and Sheryl and swoon for PJ. And looking at EW, I'm ... ooh. ehem. :cool:

Okay, this is too cute:
http://www.fs-film.fi/pics/dvd/lotrsee/LOTR_SEE_d4_071hr.jpg


Drat. Gotta get off-line now. It's begun to rain and it's imperative that I protect my modem at all costs - especially with all the new stuff popping up daily! Talk to you all again when I can. Happy weekend, everyone!

First things first, since I rarely have anything new to contribute lately. This isn't much, but it's new. No spoilers, though, unless someone's been avoiding everything that's come out:

I'm up earlier than usual for a Saturday because I have an appointment, so I've got the Weekend Today show on. Of course, when they said they were going to talk about the holiday movies during the next half hour, I had to delay my bathroom trip ;) .

NBC evidently has something going with Entertainment Weekly, because the guest they had on to talk about the holiday movies was an EW editor, and the interview was all tied in with the new print issue of the magazine. They showed the cover for a second--but said absolutely nothing about who was on it :eek: or even what movie they were in :eek: :eek: !! I guess they expect the pic itself to sell the copies--which, of course, it will :) , along with bringing a few more people to the movie??

I don't know what order they were using to talk about the different movies--it might have been by release date. I'll have to check and see if it matches the way they're listed in the magazine (which, of course, I'll be buying today :cool: ). The editor didn't name any "favorite" or "best" among the ten movies he talked about and the interviewer didn't ask him to.

The info about TTT was disappointingly little, but it always is with those kinds of interviews, where they're trying to talk about ten movies in five mintutes (and we're looking for as much info as we can get). The first shot shown while the guy was talking was one of Frodo and Sam with dirty faces that we've seen before (Emyn Muil, probably). Then it quickly cut to some special effects thing with Aragorn--I couldn't really tell what was happening; it may be something that's been talked about in the DSG or spoiler threads, but I don't know. Then ended with a shot of Gandalf the White that we saw in the trailer.

The voiceover by the editor while the clips were being shown was really disappointing. It was heartening to see F&S in the first shot, but he didn't mention them at all (they were onscreen while he was talking about the release date, etc.). He mentioned that the "love story" between Aragorn and Arwen was set up in the first movie, and would be "more intense" in the second one. But his main interest seemed to be that TTT would be "gorier" than FotR: "Lots of heads being chopped off." Now, not that I'm opposed to lots of heads being chopped off (as long as it doesn't take up too much screen time ;) ), but I didn't appreciate the fact that the editor seemed more interested in that than anything else. Of course, at this point, even the reviewers haven't seen much of the movie (probably not much--if any--more than we have, I'm guessing, since we've already seen the clips that were shown). So I'm not fearful that the interview could be interpreted that gore is the only interesting thing in the movie--IMHO, it just shows what this particular guy finds important :rolleyes: . And, of course, he was talking to people who are looking for movies that will be available for them and their kids to see over the holidays, so I suppose it wasn't a bad idea to point out that it's more violent than FotR.

Like I said, not much--mostly a blurb to entice people to buy the print version, I think.

Originally posted by deluby
Even if they are still editing it, it's not much of a surprise either, other film makers work till the last minute too. And I think it's a good thing. Why let the film sit in the can while there's still time to do little touch-ups to make it near perfect?
Exactly!

I was actually amused, it's like "oh wow, it CAN cut an open on my finger after all! hmmm...owww, bandage!!" :D
LOL (literally--hope I didn't wake my next-door neighbor) :D :D ! Spoken like a true Faculty member!! You never know when any insight may be useful in future research, especially when it's about a wound :p .

Originally posted by ainon
I'm sure that's pain we see. Because we know now that FW and PB are sick and will inflict pain at every opportunity. They are so totally sick.
Oh, thank you, ainon dear--that's so reassuring :D :p !

Originally posted by tgshaw
Spoken like a true Faculty member!! You never know when any insight may be useful in future research, especially when it's about a wound :p

Okay, that made *me* LOL. :D Somehow I never expected that remark to come from you. :p :D

Well, the rain stopped so I'm back on-line, trying vainly to download all that I can in the time that I have. While waiting, I'll just post a few more pics. They're all from a Finnish website that has galleries of screencaps from the SE DVD. I got the link from TORN. I'm sorry I can't give the site link, because my browser crashed just after I managed to get these pics so I'm not gonna go back there again -- I'm not risking yet another crash! :o


http://www.fs-film.fi/pics/dvd/lotrsee/LOTR_SEE_d4_066hr.jpg

http://www.fs-film.fi/pics/dvd/lotrsee/LOTR_SEE_d4_105hr.jpg

http://www.fs-film.fi/pics/dvd/lotrsee/LOTR_SEE_d1_093hr.jpg


Also, and I might as well say this here, I've been meaning to thank Goldie, erendis and peaceweaver for sharing their thoughts on the Extended Version. :) Since I won't be getting the DVD anytime soon, I'm lapping up anything and everything anyone has to say about it, and the movie companion books too! Thank you!
{{{Faculty}}}

ainon: the first picture you posted, with Dom, Billy and Elwood, is from the "A Day in the Life of a Hobbit" feature on the new DVD (I think that's what it is called.) Just you wait til you can see and hear what those guys are doing there! Uproarious!

Hi Faculty! *waves* and runs back to work. Yes, even on a Saturday. sigh...

Maeglian
It's the Two Towers books and general Spoiler discussion thread.
Unfortunately there is no pcture posted. I don't have access to a scanner :( It's just a discription of the picture. I found it on the very last page of the "Creatures" book and just looking at it gave me the heebie jeebies Of course I am the world's biggest coward when it comes to Spiders :eek:

Not much time right now but just wanted to say that the Ent Weekly :D pics are lovely. But you know, something just occurred to me: who do you think made the decision to use Elwood and Liv in the pics? Logically it should have been, say, Viggo and Liv (if you're going by the plot of the movies). It was someone with good taste, obviously. I can hear the conversation now: "Who can we put on the cover that will literally make people stop to get a better look at the magazine?" "Well--how about Elwood? He's got a stare that can stop traffic." "We need one of the women for male readers. Who is available?" "Ummmmm, well Miranda and Cate are not in this country right now, so if you think it's really necessary, how about Liv?" Or something like that. (Of course it was probably that everyone else was out making a movie somewhere or something, but it's fun to make up these little scenarios, don't you think? :p )

To my utter suprise, the SE: DVD was available in HMV today. There was the Argonath version which I didn't buy and the "normal" 4 DVD set which I did buy. So I just had to come into work to use the internet to cancel my order with Amazon and to take my laptop home with me to watch the DVD's at home. Oh happy, happy me!!

Ah, okay. One other thing. For those in the UK, The Sunday Times is having a TTT special in their magazine tomorrow. I heard it advertised on the radio. There's meant to be collector two-sided posters with it too. It mentioned something about "Argon" too. I guess they meant Aragorn! Silly advertising people :)

Gotta dash. I've got my next four hours planned to watch the DVD's and then The Good Son is showing on TV too. What an Elijah-fest!

What's HMV?

Here's their web site:

http://www.hmv.co.uk/

Why do I get the feeling that all of you either have the Extended DVD or the books and won't surface for about a week? :D

Originally posted by Maeglian
I have read that the scene under the tree root with the Black Rider was the very first scene filmed, and that may be why EJW still has some vestige of nails left there. Then as filming progressed, he obviously chewed them down, and who can blame him. What a pressure that role must have been on an 18-year old.

Trust a haremite who has studied every inch of her squire... these are NOT EW's hands...
http://web.kcnet.org/arielshouse/fingers.jpg

Originally posted by ainon
I'm sure that's pain we see. Because we know now that FW and PB are sick and will inflict pain at every opportunity. They are so totally sick. In that nice angst-favourable way. :D

Oh, I am sure it is pain too... and isn't it NICE to have a film that was SO influenced by women? Even if the marketing boys at NL have never realized that?!

Oh, and Ainon! I ADORE that pic of EW and his size double! That is just too cute for words! It is also the first time you actually get to see Kiran Shah's face without the 'Frodo' mask! (although there is that shot of him and the Sam double in the caves from TTT) - I recognized his name from the credits as being the same actor from "Legend" but had yet to see a shot where I could actually recognize his face!
http://web.kcnet.org/arielshouse/kiran.jpg

Oh, and I have swooned for PJ since Dec. 19th, 2001! What a wonderful man! (and he's even my age!)

Originally posted by Louise
Why do I get the feeling that all of you either have the Extended DVD or the books and won't surface for about a week? :D

Well, I don't and won't until next week... probably after everyone else has gotten theirs. I ordered the big old collector's set with the Argonath bookends because you just KNOW I am going to have a 'collection' - I'll have to post a pic of it after I've got it home.

BTW - speaking of Aragorn... :D I recently rented "Witness" just for a lark, on DVD and though I knew Viggo was in it, I never realized how MUCH of the film he was in! I mean, every time you see a group of Amish, there's Viggo! It was funny, I thought he was the one who they built the barn for, but it turns out he plays the competing love interest's brother! Lots of nice pics of him too. :D If any of you post in the Aragorn thread, do you think that there would be interest there in a few caps from that film? I could do them before I have to return the DVD.

Ariel

Finally done reading and adding.... though if I missed commenting on something, you may trout me! :rolleyes:

Originally posted by ainon
I mean, have you ladies been following up on the Aragorn spoilers? Sick. Absolutely, deliciously sick. :D :D

I haven't. I've been trying to avoid all spoilers not Sam or Frodo based (and to not seek those too avidly), per Ariel's point that it's best to know ahead of time about stuff that might upset me. I suppose it's possible that PJ may upset me by changing something outside of the hobbits... but I doubt it. :p But I'm all for angtst with anyone in LOTR, so if that's what you're hinting at - great!

Originally posted by ainon
Eyrie, enaiowen and SL - wonderful to see you all again! SL, don't stay in that dark lurkdom place. Step out here and drool ... err ... I mean *discuss* with us. :)

Btw, estella rose told me last week that she'll be absent from the faculty for a while. Bugger that RL, huh.

I'll second all this. I understand stormy's snowed under by RL as well. *sigh* I keep thinking I'm going to go chase down Carly pretty soon - although she's been leaving brilliant posts in Rivendell that just knock me out, so maybe I'm just being miserly there. Guess we should share the wealth. :)


Originally posted by Eagles' Eyrie

Gotta dash. I've got my next four hours planned to watch the DVD's and then The Good Son is showing on TV too. What an Elijah-fest!


I was doing real well in keeping my jealousy in hand by watching the DVD over and over.... Then my son did *something* (we have yet to figure out what), and now the TV won't show the DVD. :eek:

Actually my jealousy is still in hand - because it's been replaced by hysteria. "This must be fixed by Tuesday! DOOOOO SOMETHING!"

Sheryl

Gah, Sheryl. This calls for extreme measures. Is anyone here an audio-visual geek? I do pretty well with equipment I'm familiar with--what kind of DVD player do you have?

I was over at TORC and found an interesting story from one of the German members--True Hobbit. She went to a meeting of the German Tolkien Society and Cirdan (sounded like he was one of the main guys at Herr der Ringe or something) talked about getting to visit the set of LOTR. Here it is:

Later he also got to see EJW and SA filming a scene in a bluebox – looking horribly ragged and bruised and worn out. EJW called out to the visitors they were to imagine lots of crumbling rocks and a stream of lava around them – they were filming them getting down from Mount Doom! After they’d done the scene, EJW called to the visitors again and asked “How were we?” – I just think that was sweet, that’s why I wanted to tell you. (They did the scene again five or six times, though.)

Every time I read something like that I marvel anew at the challenges actors have to face. Not only do they have to get the lines and emotions right, nowadays they have to imagine their total environment as well. "OK guys, imagine you're on top of a volcano which is crumbling around you, with rock explosions flying around your heads and molten lava flowing on all sides, and read scene number 242... Ummm, could you do that one again, guys? You stepped in the lava again."

To all actors of LOTR: we're in awe! :cool:

Originally posted by Louise
what kind of DVD player do you have?



Thanks for the kind thoughts, Louise, but it turns out it isn't that bad. It's not the DVD player, it's the TV. We discovered we can still can play the DVD through the super VHS port, just not through the CVI. :confused: So not the end of the world after all - except hubby's going to want to haul it in for repairs now and I'm going to want to hang onto it so I can see the Extended DVD (since they've been known to tear it apart and then hang onto it for a week). Bah.

We technically could play DVDs through the computer or on a monitor I suppose. It's not like we have a huge TV in the first place, but it is considerably larger than a monitor. :p

Anyhow, didn't come back to report on that -

Anyone else remember all the various conversations we've had on the fact that EW doesn't laugh as well as he plays angst? I'm beginning to question my own perceptions on that one. My youngest (just turned two last month) drifts in and out while FOTR runs, but she always shows up for when Gandalf's arrival - so she can laugh with Frodo and Gandalf! She seems to find their laughter sufficiently sincere. :)

Sheryl

Hullo there,

I GOT MY AVATAR BACK!!!! My cute wide-eyed little Frodo in Bag End. Wayhey! No I can easily see which posts are mine when I'm scrolling down the page fast. :)

Wee bit off topic but I was just wondering if anyone knows how to turn off the function that sends an email to your email address when you get a reply to a thread here? I thought I'd turned it off but I'm still getting them, maybe it's not working?

Am just back from seeing Harry Potter & The Chamber of Secrets. There was a trailer for TTT at before the film started, (an older trailer than the most recent one), could feel the chills going down my spine ;) Reminded me of last year when I saw HP & The Philosopher's Stone and there was a FOTR trailer on that, and me thinking I *might* go and see it one time!! CoS was okay, I could see what several reviewers had said about Chris Columbus, erm, copying PJ's directing style as there was several 'sweeping' shots, one that really stood out was when the camera swoops down the staircase in the school, totally reminded me of the camera swooping in the caverns of Isengard. Dobby the House 'Elf' was a bit irritating, but he irritated me in the book too. Also there was a scene with a biiiiig spider called Aragog and lots of other big spiders chasing the kids. And I was looking at Lucius Malfoy with his long blond hair, haughty stare and somewhat large nose thinking he reminded me of someone, then it hit me - he looks like HALDIR!!! :eek:

Anyway, that's enough about Harry Potter!

Was in town today, still no sign of the books. I'm going to have to give in and get them off the net now, am getting too impatient! I was a bit annoyed that there is *no* promotional posters or anything about the SE DVD in the shops. There was banners and posters advertising other films but not The Movie. There was a few magazines featuring articles about TTT though - it is really happening!!! I am so glad that I can join in all the excitment and speculation leading up to the release of TT. I had a naughty flick through one, I think it was called 'Film Review' or something, it had Aragorn on the cover. Inside there was an interview with Elijah, asking him about the film and so on. The interviewer described EW as being 'ethereal looking'. Too right!

Is it just me or judging from the photo of Kiran Shah that Ariel posted, does he look a bit like Bilbo?! And that pic of him and Elijah both dressed as Frodo is cool! Kind of surreal!

Thanks ainon, my mum's finger is fine now! She made such a fuss too, silly thing she is! I like those piccies you posted aswell, esp the one of Lij, Dom and Billy. Merry is always eating apples, lol! Elijah looks like he's thinking that aswell!

About the Entertainment Weekly pics (put the title in full there, so as not to confuse ;) ) don't you think he looks kind of pensive or as if his mind is on something else. He looks lovely whatever.

shilohmm - I have always meant to say since the discussion about EW's laugh has been running, about the bit when he laughs at Gandalf at the start, I remember reading in The Hobbit that hobbits have 'deep, fruity laughs'. Maybe that was what EW was aiming for?!

Oh thanks for reminding me about the Sunday Times EE! Gonna try and get that tomorrow. Oh and hope you enjoy watching your new purchase! :D

Here's a pic of Frodo that I've not seen before, looks like it's from the beginning of FOTR when he first speaks to Gandalf -

http://www.theargonath.cc/characters/frodo/pictures/frodo146.jpg
Uh-oh, look how close his fingernails are to his mouth! ;)

Off to bed now!

L :)

Glad to hear your problem has a temporary fix, Shilomm. Tell your husband no repairs until TTT comes out. :D

Something I've always meant to say about Elijah's laugh--everybody always says it's not very convincing. Well, I've seen him on several talk shows, and he pretty much laughs the way Frodo laughs when he pushes Sam over to dance with Rosie. When he was on The Daily Show and Jon Stewart said something funny, that's also how he laughed, so I'm pretty sure Elijah wasn't faking it. I think that he's just one of those people whose laugh just isn't that "audiogenic" (trying for "sound" equivalent of "photogenic"). They do exist. One of my brothers has a goofy laugh. It's not something you can help, apparently, because if you can hear how you sound and still can't change it--what are you gonna do? Anyway, just thought I'd throw that in. He does everything else so well, I guess people just think it's kind of strange that he doesn't have a great laugh. His laugh has never bothered me, though. I'm usually waiting for the angsty part, anyway, so I hardly notice the laughter. ;)

It's been quiet here, don't tell me you all got SE DVD early!! http://www.imagemagician.org/images/deluby/huh.gif http://www.imagemagician.org/images/deluby/notfair.gif http://www.imagemagician.org/images/deluby/dontcare.gif http://www.imagemagician.org/images/deluby/cry.gif I'm SO gonna pre-order them next year. I've always thought online orders never arrive on time, but seems with DVDs it's the opposite? :confused: I'm still waiting for the Making of book and Visual Companion from Amazon. :rolleyes: They were shipped yesterday, so they'll probably be here on tuesday, the day SE DVD is released. I'm gonna be really happy nov.12th. :D

Here's a little frodo piccy from UK's Sunday Times TTT special.
http://www.imagemagician.org/images/deluby/sundaytimes.jpg


While I'm anxiously waiting for tuesday, I'm gonna post the last batch of gifs from the theatrical version of FOTR. :p Next time it'll be scenes from SE DVD. woohoo!!

1. Receiving the Phial from Galadriel.
http://www.imagemagician.org/images/deluby4/37anduin3p.gif
http://www.imagemagician.org/images/deluby4/37anduin3p.gif


2. Leaving Lorien.
http://www.imagemagician.org/images/deluby4/38anduin4p.gif


3. Frodo sensing Boromir's thoughts when getting off the boat.
http://www.imagemagician.org/images/deluby4/39anduin5p.gif


4. Last one, Frodo and Sam's hand-clasping under water.
http://www.imagemagician.org/images/deluby3/40clasp.gif

Deluby; - thanks! Your gifs are a gift and a joy each time.

Yes, I see there's a steady stream of people who have managed to get hold of the SE DVD early (EE, you lucky, lucky person, you! I think I am going spring green with envy!! ), but I *have not* managed to get hold of it yet (not for lack of trying), so now I'm feeling a little exhausted from all this anticipation going on. I guess others may feel the same? I have started avoiding all spoilers for the SE DVD now. I want there to be *something* that I haven't both seen thoroughly screencapped and commented on, when I finally dig into it myself on Tuesday evening.

ainon; - I loved this quote of yours so much I just have to repeat it without further comment: Because we know now that FW and PB are sick and will inflict pain at every opportunity. They are so totally sick. :cool: :cool: :cool:

Enaiowen, - thank you, I went over and read your description of the spider's lair. Pretty scary stuff. I hope someone with a scanner will give that one a go! And I've been thinking...

Spoilery speculation
*
*
*
*
That one spoiler pic of Frodo that has been released with that mystic "Frodo's benefactor" caption: Him looking up, with an indescribably sad/weary/horrified/scared (??) look on his face, and covered in dirt and cobwebs.... That might perhaps be when they re-emerge from those now infamous sewers? If so, it seems PJ is not above giving us actual Froshadowings from one film to the next!! Think we'll get Frodo or Sam commenting on how they dislike spiders? After all, they both know of Bilbo's spider encounters in Mirkwood, so.....

Doesn't explain the "benefactor" thing, though.

(Never stop speculating on TTT spoilers!!! That seems to be my motto of late.... :rolleyes: )


*
*
*
End spoilery speculation!


Luthiea; - congratulations on getting your avatar back!

Sheryl; - oh, what a relief you'll be able to see the SE DVD after all! I can well imagine feeling completely frantic if something like that happened.

Louise; - thank you for that information from Cirdan/herr der Ringe. I'm trying to imagine that scene once the blue box is gone and the flying stones and lava has been included.... (shudders)

And Ariel, *of course* I trust you completely when it comes to the squire's looks! Especially when you bring along evidence making it absolutely clear that you are right. All I can say, though, is that PJ has me focusing on other things than the actual *look* of the hands in that scene. It's more about what imagery he and EJW are projecting....... First Frodo sweating, eyes rolling back, that look on his face, then *that* close-up of the finger and the ring positioned as they are; - and I'm pondering every time if PJ really means to convey the ...ahem..... emotions and imagery that he seems to be conveying there. But I absolutely think he actually is. :o

deluby, THANK YOU! :k

Oh, I hope you all will continue talking away even after you've got your DVDs! Us deprived folk (well, okay, *me*) need all that talk to make the long wait for the DVD at least a tad bit more bearable!

Anyway, I'm just popping in briefly to quickly post these:

BagEndInn added pics from the Comic-Con.

http://www.bagendinn.com/images/newcon9.jpg
http://www.bagendinn.com/images/newcon7.jpg
http://www.bagendinn.com/images/newcon8.jpg



TTT SPOILER IMAGES




spoiler space











From the warofthering.net, which has updated its gallery with TTT photos. This is a better view of that scene:

http://www.warofthering.net/movies/photos/verylatesttttphotos/images/coneysinatrap.jpg

This we've seen long ago, but it's a lovely to see it again:

http://www.warofthering.net/movies/photos/verylatesttttphotos/images/frodoandsamlookon.jpg

And because we all appreciate him best when he's at angst :p

http://www.warofthering.net/movies/photos/verylatesttttphotos/images/frodoandsaminosgiliath.jpg
http://www.warofthering.net/movies/photos/verylatesttttphotos/images/frodoandsamintunnels.jpg





/spoiler space

Originally posted by Luthiea
Wee bit off topic but I was just wondering if anyone knows how to turn off the function that sends an email to your email address when you get a reply to a thread here? I thought I'd turned it off but I'm still getting them, maybe it's not working?

I had to do that two or three times after I first registered here. Never did figure out what I was doing wrong, but it finally "took," even though, as far as I could tell, I hadn't done anything differently. :confused: Just keep trying, I guess.

KD's driving me crazy lately because it won't show the buttons or smilies - I was thinking my eyes were aching from trying to "decode" the x's, but it's probably just this bug I've got... Shows the piccies pretty well, though. :)

Interesting observations on HP. I never did pay attention - did the first HP do better than FOTR? I would hazard a guess that FOTR had a broader audience spectrum, since everyone I know who went to HP was a teenager or a kid or went with same. :p I saw a lot of older couples and people in their forties and fifties going to LOTR without a younger person accompanying them. And it wasn't just readers of the books - one of the couples shocked that the "movie didn't end" was an older couple there inspired by the ads.

Originally posted by Louise

Glad to hear your problem has a temporary fix, Shilomm. Tell your husband no repairs until TTT comes out.

That strikes me as a reasonable compromise. :D Probably hubby won't buy it thought, since that really means it won't go in until next year (wait that long and no way he's going to get it in before we take off on the trip).

Originally posted by Louise

Something I've always meant to say about Elijah's laugh--everybody always says it's not very convincing. Well, I've seen him on several talk shows, and he pretty much laughs the way Frodo laughs when he pushes Sam over to dance with Rosie. When he was on The Daily Show and Jon Stewart said something funny, that's also how he laughed, so I'm pretty sure Elijah wasn't faking it. I think that he's just one of those people whose laugh just isn't that "audiogenic" (trying for "sound" equivalent of "photogenic").

That was kind of my argument about his "high" scene in the Faculty - I thought it believable because it reminded me of some guys who got goofy that way when they were high. It rang true for me. I usually do buy his laughter, but the laughing with Gandalf bit at the beginning of FoTR doesn't work terribly well for me. It doesn't ring wrong, per se, but it's not quite there.

deluby,
Not only do we not have it early - hubby has informed me we're not watching it on Tuesday even if we do manage to get it then. :mad: He thinks we should go to bed at a reasonable hour Tuesday night. Really :mad:. And he doesn't want me to watch it the next day without him. :rolleyes: :mad:

His argument, of course, is that he can't just toss work aside and spend the next day with it (the Christmas trip is going to do in the rest of his days off this year), so it's not fair of me to get ahead of him.

I think I'm going to have to sit him down with Labyrinth for a "Life is not Fair" reminder... :D

Maeglian,
That's not spring green with envy. This is spring green with envy. :D

I love your spoiler speculation of Froshadowing! PJ is excellent at that sort of visual paralleling that really adds depths to the films I think.

ainon,
Have you ordered the DVD, or does it look like you'll be able to get it locally, just late?

My two-year-old is beyond impossible, she's got a miserable cold and almost nothing pleases her, gotta go sit dead center in front of the screen with her on my lap and a LOTR disc going and see if that makes her happy. Usually does. :)

Sheryl

Interesting observations on HP. I never did pay attention - did the first HP do better than FOTR?

Sheryl, Harry Potter 1 was the second most successful film of all time! :eek: After 'Titanic'. ( :rolleyes: )

FOTR's commercial success blew me away. :) And the critics loved it, which was wonderful. :) But I'm afraid little Harry whipped FOTR's butt at the box office. :p Grrr. :mad:

(I like HP actually ... enjoyed the books and found the first film quite charming. Am looking forward to the second film too. But the rivalry hype with LOTR gets on my nerves).

FOTR is I believe in the top 20 box office successes of all time -- it may even be in the top 10 by now. It did very well in the US and UK, of course, and obviously in New Zealand and Australia, and astoundingly well in all the Scandinavian countries. Interesting, that ... :) Japan was the big let-down. The Japanese loved Harry Potter but couldn't get to grips with Frodo. :rolleyes:

Er ... tries to think of a Lij-related comment.

I like the way he is growing out that spikey haircut. :) Nice tumbling Frodoesque locks. ;)

Knew I'd have a lot of catching up to do when I couldn't get back online yesterday! My email is still down and may be for a couple of days, so I'll try to remember to check my PM's--I usually depend on email alerts for that. And, Lutheia, I had problems with "subscribed threads" overload, too. You have to go into your options and uncheck that one, which you probably did--but that only takes care of threads you post in after you've changed that option. You also have to go into your subscribed threads list and unsubscribe from any that you're already getting notices on. (And congrats on getting your avatar back--I've missed the kid :) .)

With all that's been posted since I was here, I'll just say thanks to everyone for pics, news, comments, spoilers, and speculations, and to deluby for the gifs (the one that's posted in the thread is one of my favorites, and I've only had a small still of it until now). (When I read this over, I realized I'd typed "gifts" instead of "gifs"--also true, of course :) ). And hello to those popping out of lurkdom; please stay out here with us--you never know what you might run into down there in the dark :eek: !

And for deluby, regarding DVD delivery dates--I specifically did not order the SE on line, because I did that with the theatrical version DVD (from Amazon) and didn't have it until about a week after everyone else. So I'm counting on finding it in Omaha somewhere on Tuesday.

I don't recognize that "Frodo's benefactor" caption or the description of the picture. Where did that come up?

---------------------------

Report on yesterday's hunting trip at Borders:

Borders is really pushing the TTT stuff, although I didn't see anything mentioning the SE. Maybe they figure anyone who'd be interested in buying that already knows about it?

But the first thing I saw when I came in was an almost-life-size Aragorn stand-up peeking out from one of the aisles. Then was the usual big display of Tolkien books, which I think they've had up continuously since last year (and they're even adding new ones--had the new Annotated Hobbit displayed this time). That display isn't in the fantasy/sci fi section, but in a "prime location" where it's straight ahead when you come in the door and you have to pass it to go to the second floor. Then on the second floor, which is mostly CDs, videos and DVDs, another good-sized display with the TTT Visual Companion and Making of the Trilogy books (no Photo Guide, which seemed kind of strange since they had everything else, but I didn't ask about that one since I'd already decided not to buy it), and also various one-volume and three-volume LotRs with movie tie-in covers as well as the Sil and a fair amount of other by/about Tolkien books (even Shippey's Author of the Century--on a row of books about Tolkien that except for Shippey's were crap, which I told someone who was looking at them :rolleyes: . Shippey's is in paperback now, though, so anyone who's been waiting for that to buy it...)

I bought only the Making of the Trilogy book, because I didn't see much in the Visual Companion that I hadn't already seen in Narya's thread. And in looking for what Elijah said about the other actors, as a parallel to the quotes from the other actors about him, I didn't see any. He's the only one who seems to have a set of quotes about him--did I miss something in the book, or is this just another result of how special he is as a person--not just an actor :) ?

As I was sitting in one of the nice comfy chairs looking through the two TTT-related books, I got into a conversation with a woman and her teen-aged son, both of whom are big LotR fans (so nice to have that happen in RL :) ). They're not from Omaha and we didn't exchange addresses or anything, but I did give them the URL for this site, which her son wrote down in a little notebook he seems to keep handy for just such things (as soon as the word "website" came out of my mouth he whipped out the notebook as if it were a sword :D ). They're waiting for the SE, too.

Then back downstairs to the magazine section. Was disappointed that they didn't have the new Entertainment Weekly yet--they still had the previous one on display. So I hope when I go back on Tuesday they'll have the new one, as I still want to buy it even though so much has been posted here. (BTW, I continue to love the way little pieces of "geek-boy" shine through, even in "serious" photos--had to LOL when I saw the shoes :D .) Also, thanks for the heads-up on the Sunday Times. Borders actually carries that here (about a week after it's published) so I'll watch for it--last year it didn't include the special LotR section that ran in the UK, but you never know ;) .

A couple of covers with other LotR folks, but I didn't look inside the magazines: Viggo on Homme and Liv on Vanity Fair. I didn't see the Film Review magazine that Lutheia mentioned.

The one unexpected "find" was a magazine called "Fantasy Worlds"--the issue is dated Feb. 2003 and it's only #2, so it's a new magazine. There's a UK price on the cover, too, so it might show up there.

I almost didn't look inside it because on the outside it looks like something for teenyboppers and fanboys (and because it gives LotR/TTT and HP/CoS equal billing :rolleyes: ). But the articles are really pretty good: 5 pages on TTT in general and close to a page on the SE from Barry Osborne, 3 pages on LivArwen, and then some features on less-talked-about characters--a full-length story on Gimli (well, the last page or so is on Treebeard, since it's an interview with JRD), short ones on Eomer, Eowyn, Wormtongue and Theoden. Each of these is based on an interview with the actor playing the part, as the "general" article is based on the interview with Osborne.

Not much written about any of the hobbits (some pics, including F&S on the cover, but no new ones--of anyone, IIRC), but it doesn't seem so much that they're being ignored as that the readers are expected to already know about them and the magazine wants to concentrate on some of the others. From what I can tell, Fantasy Worlds seems to be a spin-off from StarLog, which is basically a sci-fi fan-mag, so they're probably right that their readers are pretty well-steeped in the hobbits, Aragorn, Legolas, Saruman and Gandalf, none of whom get much "ink" here. Again, Faramir is almost nonexistent--which seems strange with the coverage given the other "new" TTT characters. He gets one pic with a caption, and a paragraph in the Barry Osborne interview (which did have a tidbit I'll post in the spoilers thread).

But there are a couple of nice Elijah-related items. (Hope that got the attention of those who've stopped reading this post :p .)

At the end of the Osborne interview, the magazine lists places to find other LotR interviews in Fantasy Worlds, StarLog and Fangoria (which seem to all be part of the same magazine "family"). I'm going to be putting some more "spoilerish" comments from the magazine over in the Trilogy forum, and will put the entire list over there, but for EJW they list StarLog #294 "and forthcoming." It also lists "the next few issues of StarLog" for LotR interviews in general, so that might be something to keep an eye on. (They also have a form that allows you to buy back-issues of StarLog; #294 lists interviews with both EJW and Peter Jackson, but it is a year old.)

I didn't notice that list of other interviews until I had the magazine home, so it didn't influence my purchase although it might have if I'd noticed it in the store. So what made me break down and buy it? I imagine most people saw that really, really close up view of the original feisty-Frodo-with-Sting pic that was posted, IIRC, at TORC, and someone linked to from here? I think this magazine may have been its source. There's a four-page (horizontal) fold-out of that close-up. Very nice--but if you buy it, be sure to take the staples out vewwy, vewwy carefully. On the other side is a fold-out of Harry Potter, so if you see that first don't be fooled ;) !

Well, I had to count: The issue gives 15 pages to HP/CoS and 16 to LotR/TTT, so fairly even-handed. Except, of course, that they'll have an extra month to run articles on TTT :). And, I never thought I'd say this, but the CoS pics have me almost thinking of going. :rolleyes: Kenneth Branagh looks terribly good in gold--and he's not young enough to be my grandson ;) .

Shilomm: That was kind of my argument about his "high" scene in the Faculty - I thought it believable because it reminded me of some guys who got goofy that way when they were high.
Great minds do think alike. :D This was my exact opinion when the debate was going on about Elijah's supposedly unconvincing drug reaction. I have been around quite a few people who act this way when they are on drugs--kind of goofy with weird laugh (well, they get the giggles, really). And even more who act this way when drunk. There was one girl in college who I could always tell was high because she laughed like this and was very laid back--the rest of the time she was rather tense and sullen. Maybe it has to do with release of inhibitions? I suspect that Elwood's "research" of "geeks on drugs" made him think that his character would act this way.

Oh, and FOTR is #5 on the all time world box office, I believe.

Edit: I have decided that the pic in the trailer where Frodo is looking to heaven like a medieval saint must be at the same time as the pic Ainon posted (second from bottom) above--which appears to be as they are going to the "sewers". Frodo has the same look of suffering on his face, and everything looks kind of blue (evening light maybe?). So the one in the trailer is perhaps their last glimpse of Osgiliath before heading to Mordor? No wonder poor Frodo is looking so tortured ("I do not think I shall ever get there.") Poor little soul. :(

Tg, the picture in question has been posted a couple of times in the Harem. Look up page 80, Narya has it posted about halfway down the page with a companion comparison pic of happy innocent Frodo in the Shire; - enough to wring anyone's heart.

And may I also say I am spring green with envy after reading your account of the visit to the bookstore? :D
I snooped around the largest bookstore here, and they had nothing at all new LotR-wise compared to half a year ago. And the Times isn't sold here, nor Entertainment Weekly as far as I know. Well, I'll just have to comfort myself with the cost savings this entails. :rolleyes:


Some Box office Stats from Box Office Mojo:

Worldwide, top grossing films ever: No. 5; LotR, USD 861 mill (No. 2; HP, USD 967 mill).
USA, top grossing films ever: No 9; LotR, USD 313 mill (No. 8; HP, USD 318 mill).

((((shilohmm's two-year-old ))))) Get better soon little one! :k

tgshaw---I've been thinking about buying that 'Fantasy World' mag ever since last week, the frodo-with-sting fold-out is cool, but the print quality is quite disappointing. :( Knowing that there is ultra high quality picture of that shot for printing(9MB) avaliable on NL's publicity site, I expect the mag to do a better job than that. :( Plus $6.99 is a bit too much for a mag like that. I still have that Empire mag and new Entertainment Weekly to buy. I guess I'll keep drooling at the magazine stands every time I go to the bookstore. :rolleyes: :p
BtW, I didn't know UK's sunday times won't be on sale here until a week after. I thought they went on sale the same day, and was a bit upset that I couldn't get to Borders today. So thanks for the information! :) I feel much better now, will look for that next weekend.

War of the ring has scaned the sunday paper TTT special here
http://www.warofthering.net/movies/photos/sundaytimesa/

Also, they have posted the Shelob's lair photo on the last page of TTT creature guide. I won't direct link the image, just in case anyone wants to avoid spoiler. Actually I don't think there's anything to spoil, just a dark cave with webs.
http://warofthering.net/images/newsimages/shelobslair.jpg

Originally posted by deluby
BtW, I didn't know UK's sunday times won't be on sale here until a week after. I thought they went on sale the same day, and was a bit upset that I couldn't get to Borders today. So thanks for the information! :) I feel much better now, will look for that next weekend.

Well, this is Omaha, Nebraska, so we probably take longer to get that kind of thing than some other places--I think the transportation itself takes a few days. I'd give your local Borders a call and see when they get it in. I'd hate to have you wait and then find out they're all gone :eek: .

On Fantasy Worlds--Not being a great connoisseur of print quality, I quite like the picture :) . (I wouldn't have a clue as to how to print out four pages continuously, anyway). And I was very much surprised at how good the articles were.

tg - the funniest thing happened... I was reading your post and had no idea if I had ever seen the mag you were describing - until you got to the poster pullout! My husband bought that selfsame mag for me the other day! The poster has HP on the back and Angry Kitten with Sting Frodo on the front! I have it up on my wall above the window (it fits quite nicely on the header):D.

Hugs also to Sheryl with her two-year old... BTDT... My two just got done with the thing that's running around. I can at least say they had less of a problem than their peers who also had it! (and their mother!)

deluby - I AM glad you are around to hunt through the net for these articles! I have no time, and as always, the faculty is still my source for the most current information! It used to be Elve who kept up with all these things (who I miss seeing here :() but I am glad you have taken up the job of keeping us all so well informed.

Ariel

http://www.imagemagician.org/images/deluby/blush3.gif More than glad to serve the Faculty! http://www.imagemagician.org/images/deluby/blush.gif

Here is a list I compiled using national retail store weekly advertisement in sunday paper. NOTE: I'm not sure if the advertised price are the same nationwide, so this is only a reference, please check your local stores. All item prices apply to DVD version.
Starting from the lowest price:
Best Buy
SE DVD: $24.99
Collector Gift Set: $49.99

Fry's Electronics:
No mention in their paper ad, their website (http://shop2.outpost.com/template/index/) advertise for:
SE DVD: $24.99
Collector Gift Set: $49.99

Target:
SE DVD: $24.99
Collector Gift Set: $69.99

Walmart:
No paper ad in my sunday paper, online price here(may differ from store price):
SE DVD: $25.88
Collector Gift Set: $56.94

Kmart:
SE DVD: $29.95
Collector Gift Set: Not mentioned in paper ad. Online price $59.99.

Circuit City:
SE DVD: $29.99
Collector Gift Set: $59.99


Usually Fry's and Walmart have the lowest price, as for availability, I would say Best Buy is the place to go, plus their price is good too. I would get mine in Best Buy tuesday.
Hope it helps! :)

I thought this was pretty funny. They just posted the pic of Frodo holding Sting to Gollum's throat, along with one of Treebeard at AICN. One of the posters made the following comment:
I just... I can't... I was seriously expecting some good CGI. I wasn't expecting... THAT. I wasn't expecting REAL. I mean, I know it's not real, cos Gollums and Treebeards and Elijah Woods don't really exist in real life, but... well, oh my God.
I wonder which Haremite wrote that? :eek: :D ;)

Edit: Sorry, Shilohmm. This was one of the posters over at Aint-It-Cool-News. It just sounded so much like something you would hear over at the Harem, I had to quote it. :D

Shame on you, Louise! That quote made me LOL right in the middle of Yoda's death scene - the first time the kids got to see it! :D

Where'd they say it, in Narya's spoiler thread? I'm still behaving myself and avoiding spoilers. If you count reading this thread as avoiding spoilers. :rolleyes: :D

Sheryl

edit:

Hey, the Haremites aren't the only ones smart enough to see that that boy's something special. ;)

Sheryl

I found, quite by accident at Wal-Mart a magazine called Movie Magic. I say by accident because it would be very easy to miss Fro there among all the HP stuff. There is actually quite a bit of good stuff in there. It contains an interesting interview with Elijah (accompanied I might add by a most swoonworthy pic of same :D ) and an interview with PJ. Both interviews are 3-4 pages long. There's also a short column with Ian McKellan. I'm sorry I don't have access to a scanner to post pics. Hopefully someone at TORn will come accross this and post it there. They only had the one copy at our store.

thanks, deluby, for that consumer's report on the pricing for the SE DVD. Now I know which store to haunt on Tueday! :)

By the way, those animations are amazing! And I still have trouble believing that the person underneath the Frodo costume is the guy on the podium at Comic-con. I agree with the poster at AICN: it must be a CGI!!:D

enaiowen: I'm going on a hunt for that magazine. I looked at the TTT Visual companion and the Making of books at my local bookstore today. Not enough Frodo to justify the purchase, by my standards. But if a certain edition of Entertainment Weekly falls into my shopping cart, well, I can justify that purchase!

Oh and I've been in touch with Elve. She'll be back, never fear. RL is keeping her quite busy. And then there will be this DVD she'll want to see....

Hi gang. Just one more mildly interesting tidbit before I go to bed. I was looking at some movie database for another actor (I didn't find him), so I decided to see what they said about Elijah. Among the usual quotes about his start with Paula Abdul, they said the following:
Melissa Joan Hart wanted Elijah to co-star with her in Drive Me Crazy, believing it would be less pressure for her to act with Elijah. Directors thought he looked too young next to her so they gave to part to Adrien Grenier.
If any of you have seen that movie, try to imagine Elijah in the role of the next door neighbor. :rolleyes: It's not that Elijah couldn't have played it, but Melissa Joan Hart is about 5 years older than he is. The guy they got to play the part was also about 23 at the time, so he and Ms. Hart made a couple of "mature" high school students, TSTVL. I wonder if Elijah ever actually considered doing the role? Ah well, too trivial for words, eh? 'Night all. :)

IS IT TUESDAY YET??????

P.S. Hey gang, if you're interested in voting in polls: over at fandango.com, they're asking "Which actor are you most interested in seeing this holiday season?" Elijah is currently ahead at 32% (with Pierce Brosnan a distant second at 20%), but I thought you might want to cast a vote for our Frodo. How about it?

P.S.S. If any of you like westerns, and subscribe to Showtime, there was a pretty good "made in Australia" one on tonight that you might want to catch on a repeat (like maybe next year, after TTT leaves theaters). It was called "The Outsider" and starred Naomi Watts (The Ring, Mulholland Drive), Tim Daly (from "Wings", very good in an a-typical role for him as a hardened gunslinger) and our guy Denethor (John Noble) as the baddie. I had a lot of fun just figuring out which classic westerns the plot was borrowed from--there were elements of "The Angel and the Bad Man", "Witness", "Shane", and "High Noon". Hey, if you're going to "borrow", borrow from the best. Ask J.K. Rowling. ;)

Funny, funny quote Louise--and even better that it's in a comment on Gollum :D !

deluby--Thanks for the shoppers' guide. I wouldn't have thought of Best Buy, and there's one just a few blocks farther away than some of the more expensive alternatives.

A bit from the makeup section of the Making of the Trilogy book that fits in with some of the discussion here (no spoilers involved):
"When you think about it," says Peter [Owen], "So much of what we have done on this film is about transformations... [Gives a list of examples.] And, in addition to all that, helping to change Frodo as, step by step on his journey, he too is transformed: by sickness, weariness and grief, as well as the growing weight of maturity."

"With Frodo," says Peter, "we started by working backward! Our first aim was to get Elijah looking as fresh and young as possible: to push that youthful look as far as we could in one direction, so that it gave us the maximum opportunity to push in the opposite direction. The aging process (it is almost more to do with a loss of innocence) was achieved, very gradually, through shading: making tiny, tiny changes -- sinking in that area in front of the ear so that the cheekbones seemed more prominent and the face began to lose its roundness. Then it was up to Elijah."

Sometimes filming alternated on the same day between scenes featuring the younger-looking Frodo and his more world-weary counterpart. Indeed, there were often occasions when Elijah and the other Hobbit actors had to have their second shave of the day at lunch-time and then be given a different makup for the afternoon's filming.

A bit off-topic, but at several places in the book it's made quite clear that originally Arwen really was going to be a "warrior princess." There were even helmets made for her! So, "we" couldn't change everything, but it seems someone listened to all the fan outcry about that, at least.

I hope you're lurking around still, Squires_Lass, so I get the opportunity to tell you:

Happy birthday!!


One day less till the DVD! :rolleyes:

Just breezing thru to wish squire's lass a very happy birthday!!!

Hello all.
I've had a very frustrating weekend. My sister, her partner and their son came over to watch the 'Fellowship DVD - after much pressure from me I do admit - and they just didn't seem to get it!:confused: Our nephew loved the hobbits/Merry and Pippin's firework etc, but once we got past Bree the adults appeared to lose the plot. I mean, I love them dearly, but they kept chattering about other things and I got more and more irritated. They quietened down for a while when Gordon skewered Frodo in Moria. When he revealed the mithril coat they asked, 'Where did he get that?' My response - 'If you had been paying attention you would have seen Bilbo give it to him in Rivendell!' My sister commented that I far am too serious about it, and she feels sorry for my hubby having to put up with me! Luckily Hubby is more understanding. I guess the moral of the tale is - don't try and inflict your obsessions on others. Who says I'm obsessed?!!!:)

Hubby and I went down to the annual remembrance service at our local cenotaph on Sunday morning. We are not especially religious, but we do always mark this event. The visiting preacher gave quite a good address - the word 'sacrifice' came up a lot, and though I know Tolkien didn't want any parallels drawn between LOTR and his experiences in the wars, I couldn't help but think of Frodo. His sacrifice can be likened to the sacrifice made by the millions of people during the two world wars (and in countless conflicts since)who gave their lives to enable subsequent generations to enjoy a life free from oppression and fear.

Frodo took on this enormous responsibility convinced he would die in the undertaking, yet was prepared to forsake his own life for something he held dear - The Shire, and his people. Although Frodo's sacrifice proves to be slightly different, it is no less poignant; it is equally noble and selfless.

Afterwards I went rushing to the paper shop to buy The Sunday Times. Well, deluby, that small pic of Frodo you posted was the only mention he or any of the hobbit received there! The article itself was mostly dedicated to the Rohan and the Uruk-Hai! It discusses source material they looked at for creating the Orcs - cockroaches, apparently, and the Nordic/medieval 'look' of the Rohan people. 'This is their film,' says Dan Hennah, the trilogy's art director!

I am just hoping all this pre-TTT spoiler/information leaking is PJ tormenting us. No Faramir, very little Frodo/Sam/Gollum - does it mean that he's keeping the best till last, for when we all go to the cinema to see the finished product? I'm sure they filmed lots of Gollum, and where Gollum is, Frodo and Sam are - right? I will keep faith. Hope remains while the Faculty Lounge holds true - or something like that!

Oh, Luthiea - congratulations on your avatar - and a lovely one it is too! I wonder if I'll ever get one. How come if you post more than once on the same page, you only seem to get one post credited, thus taking forever for your total to build up? Or am I reading it all wrong?
Lovely pics again Ainon - thanks.

Tg. Love that quote from PJ about how they transformed Elijah from the young, happy Frodo to the weary, grieved Frodo. Oh I can't wait to witness the decline - I mean that in a nice, angsty way of course. As for him saying 'the rest is up to Elijah,' well, I don't think we need worry about that!

My dial-up connection is giving me hell this morning. I've been cut off about six times already while writing this post, so am going to call it a day before it happens again. Does anyone else have this problem?

SE DVD TOMORROW. I will be there, waiting for the shop to open.
Love to all. Bye.

Ohmygod, ohmygod, ohmygod! I just cannot contain my excitement regarding the SE : DVD. I'm so sorry to those who don't have it yet, but I promise you it will be worth the wait. It was just so great to see the new stuff mixed in with the familiar. Oh my!

SE : DVD Spoilers

Of course I knew about some of the extra stuff on the DVD: like F&S watching the passing of the Elves and the gift-giving scenes but there were so many in there that I didn't expect. Aragorn visiting his mother's grave in Rivendell, a beautiful Concerning Hobbits introduction with Bilbo, a different meeting with Haldir, an extra scene between Lothlorien and Amon Hen! AMAZING!!

And the commentry: That was even better in many ways. Not enough information on certain scenes - not too many of our "how does he do that?" questions answered, but plenty of anecdotes to tell that was brilliant. I wonder when this was recorded. The guys obviously didn't know what would be in the SE : DVD as occasionally they'd say: "Oh, they added this back in?" with surprise. There were some ROTFL moments. At Frodo's first appearance, Dom (I think it was) says: "He was in Deep Impact". Then there was the game that Billy made up called Tig that they used to play with Elijah and didn't tell him until a year later that they only made it up. And right at the end during the credits, Elijah says something like: "Regards to Tom Bombadill" I just thought it was so sweet. I wish I'd taken notes about it, but there was so much good stuff to listen to.

I was a bit sorry that we didn't get commentry from Ian Holm, Hugo Weaving, Cate Blanchett and most especially from Viggo.

After that I watched the directors' commentry with Peter, Fran and Phillipa. That was really interesting too - learnt some, but still wants to know more!! They dropped a few hints about the next movie, and gave loads of hints to the filming schedule which might come in useful. Eg: The scene with Frodo and Gandalf at Bagend was all filmed in three different occaions and was a mixture of all three. Peter didn't seem quite as well up on his Tolkein as the others. During the Frodo and Aragorn scene on Amon Hen, he says: "And this comes directly from the book" and either Fran or Phillipa had to say that actually it hadn't and that it was a PJ Original!

End Spoilers

Oooh, so much to talk about. I'll give it a rest for there and wait for a few more people to see it and that will probably jog my memorie. No chance of me missing coming here for all this great talk.

I didn't get a chance to watch much of disk 3 or 4. Just the Cast interviews and A Day In The Life Of A Hobbit both of which were excellent. The only hobbit actor that I never really regarded much (either good or bad) was Dom Monaghan but after seeing this, I've come to like him a whole lot. He's great at telling stories - puts on the accents and the mannerisms and everything.

Advise to anybody planning to watch the DVD: You'll need to book a whole weekend to watch it properly. I still haven't seen the rest of the commentaries so that will probably take me to next week. That's okay - if I can make it last for the next five weeks that might make waiting for TTT a little bit eaiser.


Oh yeah: The Sunday Times - I was disappointed in a how little Frodo or other hobbits there were, but I think this is a three-week thing and have some hope that there will be more about other areas of TTT in the forthcoming weeks. I got last year's FOTR info that was in the magazine, but not being the fan I am now, I never even kept it. Much to my utter regret! I'm definitely keeping whatever they have on offer this time.

Blossom: So sorry to hear about your sister's reaction. I learnt a long time ago that you can't push your obsessions on somebody else. I know for a fact that my own sister would do the same so I haven't even tried to share it with her. It's more fun to share with people who really care anyway.

I'm pretty sure that they count every post you make, Blossom, not just counting all the posts on one page as one. Maybe somebody with more experience will be able to confirm.

Luthiea: Congrats on the avatar. I've a bit way to go before I get mine!

Happy Birthday Squires_Lass!

Popping in to quickly say,

Happy Birthday Squires_Lass!

Eyrie!!! :k Thank you soooo much for talking about the SE DVD! I'm not jealous ... I'm just happy to know anything and everything that anyone can tell. If I had time I'd even start bombarding you with questions now. :D And tg, that info about Frodo's makeup has been something I've been wondering about for a long time. All sounds perfect. :)

Sheryl - Amazon.com has shipped my DVD, and I'm to expect it by the end of the month, or early next month. Sigh.

And, from TORN, we have this:

http://img-www.theonering.net/images/scrapbook/5126.jpg

Originally posted by BLOSSOM
I've had a very frustrating weekend. My sister, her partner and their son came over to watch the 'Fellowship DVD - after much pressure from me I do admit - and they just didn't seem to get it!
There was an old thread awhile back titled something like "How to get unbelievers to read the books," that kind of came to the conclusion that you can't really force anybody to do something. It's too bad, but there really are some people in the world who don't "get" Tolkien :confused: . That's why I'm on these boards instead of talking about LotR over coffee with one of the myriads of fans in Omaha :rolleyes: (although, at this time of day, I'm still doing it over coffee ;) ).

- the word 'sacrifice' came up a lot, and though I know Tolkien didn't want any parallels drawn between LOTR and his experiences in the wars, I couldn't help but think of Frodo. His sacrifice can be likened to the sacrifice made by the millions of people during the two world wars (and in countless conflicts since)who gave their lives to enable subsequent generations to enjoy a life free from oppression and fear.

Frodo took on this enormous responsibility convinced he would die in the undertaking, yet was prepared to forsake his own life for something he held dear - The Shire, and his people. Although Frodo's sacrifice proves to be slightly different, it is no less poignant; it is equally noble and selfless.
Although JRRT probably wouldn't have wanted Frodo turned into a direct "allegory" for those who sacrificed during wartime, I think he'd consider it a perfectly acceptable use of applicability. In fact, one of the reasons he berates people who tried to turn LotR into an allegory of WWII was that they were forgetting other wars, especially WWI.

He does say that an author's life will affect his work, and I always think of his WWI experiences when one of the hobbits (young innocents, like so many soldiers), has a deep emotional reaction to something involved with whatever war they're fighting at the time--Merry's reaction to Theoden's death, Frodo's incurable post-traumatic-stress response to all he went through, and even the fact that the others can't really understand it although they've each had their own form of suffering and sacrifice.

There's one passage from The Grey Havens that I can't read without thinking that Tolkien must have had in mind all the friends he lost in WWI, even if he wasn't speaking only of them. November 11 is probably a good time to quote it:
I tried to save the Shire, and it has been saved, but not for me. It must often be so, Sam, when things are in danger: some one has to give them up, lose them, so that others may keep them.
Particularly sad IMHO is that Frodo's "unreasoning guilt" (to use Tolkien's phrase) is so obvious here. He "tried" to save the Shire," and "it has been saved" (passive tense). At least there's something deep inside him that understands his losing the Shire has something to do with others being able to keep it, even if he's not yet able to give himself credit for what he's done.

And this has been posted in one of the scans from the Making of the Trilogy book, but I think I'll pull it out and post it by itself here. It's from Ian McKellen:
In creating Frodo, Tolkien may well have been thinking back to the First World War and the lads who went on a terrible journey from which many never returned. Elijah reminds me of those statues of idealized young men on war memorials throughout the world: more sublime than human and with a complexion of molten marble...
I still hold my belief that JRRT had something to do with how all the unlikely pieces fell into place for Elijah to end up playing Frodo in these movies. Maybe this is one of the reasons for that choice?

- does it mean that he's keeping the best till last, for when we all go to the cinema to see the finished product?
I have to say that I expect TTT to have less hobbit screen-time than than the other two movies, but I think it's true that there's a lot we won't see til we get to the theater, just because of the nature of the material. They want us to get enough of a taste of Gollum that we'll want to see more (but not any more than that), and they're evidently keeping a lot of the Faramir storyline under wraps (still, IMHO, in large part to "fake out" the Tolkien virgins). But we know we'll see the Taming of Smeagol, the Dead Marshes, the Black Gate, and an extended storyline with Faramir. There will never be enough hobbit material (especially F&S material) in the movies to satisfy me, but I think there will be some great stuff. Elijah said the Dead Marshes was his favorite scene to film, so I'm especially looking forward to that horrible place ;) .
How come if you post more than once on the same page, you only seem to get one post credited, thus taking forever for your total to build up? Or am I reading it all wrong?
I'm not sure about this, but I also think you should get credited for each post (as long as they're not within 30 seconds of each other, which the board won't let you do, anyway). I do think, though, that the count doesn't show up until later--possibly not until after you've logged out and then logged back in again? Or maybe the page just needs to get updated--for the fun of it, you might try hitting the "refresh" button after your second post on a page and see if your count changes.

Tg. Love that quote from PJ about how they transformed Elijah from the young, happy Frodo to the weary, grieved Frodo.
That whole section of the book is very confusing because there are actually three Peters involved, and I had to keep going back to check who was talking :) ! The entire quote I posted was from Peter Owen, who was in charge of hair and makeup for the movies.

SE DVD TOMORROW. I will be there, waiting for the shop to open.
Alas, I'm afraid I'll have to wait until after work :( . Hope there will be some left!

Maeg--Thanks for the directions to the "Benefactor" pic; I hadn't seen that one--I'm mystified as to what it's about, too! (And this time, my computer didn't crash when I went to the Harem :D !)

And I'll add a Happy Birthday to Squires_Lass!

Thanks for the magazine info, tg. I may manage to get out and do a little shopping today (let me rephrase that. I NEED to get out and do a little shopping today.) My shopping trip on Saturday was interrupted quite unexpectedly by an opportunity to buy the SE DVD early - you can bet I went straight home as soon as I had it in my hot little hands!! Who needs groceries??

I've watched the movie twice, and all the bonus material once. I LOVE this version of the movie, and I've been absolutely blown away by the bonus material. The care, dedication, hard work, creativity, and love of Tolkien that went into creating the movies is SO evident, and SO amazing. I think this was truly a unique movie-making experience, unlike anything that has happened before. Many of the reviews that came out last year talked about how this movie might change how movies are made; the DVD shows just how exceptional it truly was.

I don't want to spoil the enjoyment of having the bulk of it revealed for the first time for anyone by going into a lot of detail, but because it has been discussed here, I thought I'd mention the Boromir / Frodo scene in Moria. They actually SHOW how they did this - facial replacement. EW acted the scene on blue screen, Boromir acted the scene with the scale double, and they replaced his face for the final shot. It's an absolute testament to the skill and ability of EVERYONE involved in this project that the effects work so seamlessly.

There are some really funny scenes with the scale doubles - one where the four 'real' hobbits are standing around in a group, and their four scale doubles are in a little group beside them. There's also one with Merry / Pippin in the final fight scene where you get to briefly see that they also used a scale double for Boromir- only this time a bigger double!

It's a treasure trove, that's for sure. Between the additional parts of the movie, and the appendices, there is lots and lots of material to get us through until TTT!

Since it is Veteran's Day (or Armistice Day) here in the states, it seems only fitting to think about Frodo, who seems to embody all the sacrifices made during World War I for JRRT. Since I cannot comprehend the scale of sacrifice that the War actually entailed, thinking of Frodo's sacrifice will have to do. :(

Fascinating reports on the SE DVD. I Cannot wait to see it all. (I've seen bits and pieces.) Thanks Narya and EE! I'm counting the minutes.

And Happy Birthday, Squire's Lass!

I salute all veterans. Someone at another site said to hug a veteran--I can't hug my dad, who's no longer with us, so I hugged my mom instead. :)

I saw this over at TORn and thought it was cute because this is exactly what I always thought at this point in FOTR. This is a quote from Elijah from his commentary on the council of Elrond scene.
Random cast commentary quote, from the 'Council of Elrond':

Elijah: "I love the way he says 'one of YOU must do this' . . . well, why don't YOU do it mate?"
I wonder if there's an outtake where Elwood says this? :D

Ah, yes. Movie-Elrond at his disagreeable best :rolleyes: .

Depending on which word you emphasize (he does emphasize YOU in the movie), there are several things he "requires" that book-Elrond doesn't.

-- ONE of you must do this. (Book-Elrond plans from the start that a group will be sent, and it's carefully chosen.)

-- One of YOU must do this. (What Louise--and Elijah--said :) .)

-- One of you MUST do this. (No one's forced. There are other options, even if not as good or permanent as the Ring's destruction.)

--One of you must DO this. (As I read some months ago in a comment on this line, "This ain't Star Wars." Book-Elrond understands that besides do and do not, there very definitely is try.)

--One of you must do THIS. (Nothing at all against Elijah's delivery, which was perfect for how the scene was played, but I wasn't happy when that "to Mordor" got stuck into the middle of his offer to take the Ring. In the book, Elrond knows as well as everyone else--probably better than most--that the destruction of the Ring is beyond anyone's ability*. JRRT is clear that Frodo's "contract" with the Council is to get the Ring as far as he can; he's also clear that Frodo takes the task knowing he doesn't have the ability within himself to complete it. All of the Wise, including Frodo, are very aware that they have to hope for some outside help--possibly from whoever it was that "appointed the task" for Frodo--for the errand to actually be completed, and the Ring "...cast back into the fire from whence it came.")

*This is why movie-Elrond's "the strength of Men failed" annoys me, also. I always want to say, "You could have just thrown it in, huh?" Book-Elrond refuses to touch the Ring, because he knows "the strength of Elves" would fail, too.

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Completely unrelated, but for those who were/are anxious about the release of TTT being delayed. In the "Fantasy Worlds" interview with Barrie Osborne (just realized I've been spelling his name wrong all along :o ), he says a fine cut of RotK already exists. Everything done between now and December 2003 is just to make the good better. So if you hear any rumors next year... ;) And I wouldn't be surprised if TTT was in something of a similar situation at this time last year.

---------OTOH, the third HP movie will probably not be released at holiday time next year because it won't be ready. It's expected to be released summer 2004 :( or :p -- depending on your POV ;).

tg: I love your variant readings of the "One of you must do this" line. I can't wait to hear Elwood's comment on this, Louise. (What time is it? when can I buy this DVD?)

Oh, and they had better make the next Harry Potter soon, or Daniel Radcliffe and pals are all going to be too old to reprise the roles. :p

***clap clap clap clap clap***

That's me applauding tg's post about Elrond the Curmudgeon and the Line of Doom.

Do you suppose the screenwriting team thought it was too complex a task to give Elrond some credit for understanding the power of the Ring over Elves as well as men? If so, they robbed Elrond of much of his wisdom and made him look like the Sourpuss of M-E. Of course, it's probably eating away at him inside, the knowledge that he had the chance to destroy the Ring himself and he didn't do it.

I always say essentially the same thing to myself as Elwood does in his commentary on the Council of Elrond scene (except I don't say 'mate';) ). "Why don't YOU destroy it, ya big coward!"

The Harry Potter franchise must be affected by the death of Richard Harris. I had read that filming on HP3 was scheduled to begin in January, which theoretically should have allowed it to be ready for a December release. Now, who knows.:(

Quickie note: the third Harry Potter movie had been delayed long before the passing of Richard Harris. But yeah, apparently the HP crowd is going to grow up. In the HP reviews it's already mentioned that Grint and Radcliffe's voices are starting to crack.

Originally posted by tgshaw
Particularly sad IMHO is that Frodo's "unreasoning guilt" (to use Tolkien's phrase) is so obvious here. He "tried" to save the Shire," and "it has been saved" (passive tense). At least there's something deep inside him that understands his losing the Shire has something to do with others being able to keep it, even if he's not yet able to give himself credit for what he's done.

Oh, absolutely. And Tolks was right - the allegory is for ALL young men who have given their lives to never have a future...I loved that - in my own sad way, of course. It really made the story so much more meaningful and poignant.

I know you have all read it, but this discussion brings to mind an essay I loved concerning Frodo’s PSD -
Too Deeply Hurt (http://home.mn.rr.com/karynmilos/essays/toodeeplyhurt.html)

I loved it and found it so interesting, (of course, knowing my angsty tendancies) that I wrote a short story about it. I know we don't do fics in here, but since the subject came up, and it's one I have an interest in, I thought I would post the link if any of you haven't read it yet. Karyn Milos' essay is a lot better though ;). Sorrows (http://web.kcnet.org/arielshouse/arielshouse/swallowing_sorrows.htm)

Happy Birthday Squires_Lass!

More later... gotta go get kids...

Ariel

Originally posted by erendis
Quickie note: the third Harry Potter movie had been delayed long before the passing of Richard Harris. But yeah, apparently the HP crowd is going to grow up. In the HP reviews it's already mentioned that Grint and Radcliffe's voices are starting to crack.
Yes, the story I read about it being released later than planned was written before Richard Harris died. Of course, they're trying to do all the filming each year, which PJ has done already. They're also changing directors for the third movie.

And LotR and HP are also working with different fictional timeframes. The main action in LotR takes place over six months (from Frodo leaving Hobbiton to the destruction of the Ring), and you're dealing with adult characters. The Harry Potter books (as I've heard, never having read one :rolleyes: ) are written in such a way that one book covers one academic year at the school. So, actually, having the kids a year older in each movie is exactly as it should be--even with the cracking voices ;) .

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Ariel, thanks for the links. I'm one who usually avoids fanfic--not because I have anything against it, but because after 33+ years everything that happens during the story "gaps" (as well as before and after) is almost as set in my imagination as the Book itself. And so my usual response to fanfic is, "That's not how it happened." :rolleyes: But I love any essays and papers and discussions... Two of the losses I most mourn from the original Imladris were threads in the Lit forum that delved pretty deeply into Frodo's PTSD, from slightly different directions.

Kind of off-topic, but inside the discussion :confused: -- the movie "The Englishman Who Went Up a Hill but Came Down a Mountain" with Hugh Grant, has (IMHO) a moving depiction of a young man who's come back from WWI with "shell shock." It becomes even more emotionally involving as we learn more about the main character. A really good movie for many reasons--hmmm, I may have to watch it again sometime!! At least it's short ;) !

Aw, thank you for your birthday greetings Ainon, Cadmo, EE, Maeglian, tg, Vita S-B, Ariel and Alexan - hugs to all.

Lucky me that all the LOTR books and SE DVD have been released in November. My dear sis gifted me with the Making of Book so I was immersed in that for an evening and I am going to treat myself of course to the DVD. A question for my learned Faculty colleagues, it seems that besides the collectors bookends on the deluxe set, the National Geographic video is special to the deluxe set. Does anyone know if it's worth spending the extra $10 on? I'm Frodo and Elijah centric so does this video have anything I'd not want to miss? I'm planning to buy mine from Best Buys after work Tuesday (thank you Deluby for the heads up - excellent price!) so if anyone is around to respond with an opinion I'd appreciate it.

Blossom, although one of my sisters is as into LOTR as I am, alas another sister has not seen FOTR or read any Tolkien. We thought we might have been able to get her to see the film while it was still at the theatres but she actually admitted that she wasn't really into that kind of a film or genre. (And we would never tell her we saw LOTR 8 times.) Oh well :rolleyes: so I know how you feel.

When I do get the SE DVD, I'm planning to watch the actors' commentaries first and then take it from there. I figure this DVD will fill up the time and then some until TTT arrives Dec 18.

Alexan (ooh, it does look nice in pink!) I'm still lurking a lot because everything moves so quickly (especially with all the new stuff being released) and I feel I have nothing new to add. I barely have time to dash in, read superfast, try to digest the posts, then dash out and into (OK, I admit it cause I know some of you are Haremites) Frodo's Harem and some other sites before returning to RL. Just doing that alone takes a minimum two hours (yes dust balls are gathering in the corners as I post.

Despite that, I can't stay away!!!! I must have my fix!!! Whew, must calm down. I'm sounding obsessed. :eek: :D

HAPPY BIRTHDAY Squires_lass!! Now I know where that "11" comes from. ;)

Tomorrow is 12th!! YAY!!
Official site has been updating frequently, they posted a video on Sound Editing this morning, it shows a tiny bit of EW filming the Dead Marshes scene. I might post a gif of that later. Video here: http://www.lordoftherings.net/film/exclusives/video.html

Then they updated again tonight with some images and videos from the SE DVD. If you can't wait till tomorrow you can see them here: http://www.lordoftherings.net/film/exclusives/homevideo/extended.html#
The early bag end set test with PJ, Sam and Sam playing chess and Orlando's boating accident had me ROFLMAO. :D :D

Also, UK radio station Classic FM is playing exclusive previews of TTT soundtrack on Henry Kelly's School Run at 08:10 in the morning, and on Classic FM at the Movies with Simon Bates at 17:20. (That would be 03:10am and 12:20pm EST for US) You can listen online at their website: http://www.classicfm.co.uk/page.cfm?station=classicfm&s=1&program=Listen&p=53&page=listennow&g=560
Someone at TORC has recorded today's track: "Forth Eorlingas" and you can d/l it here: http://members.cox.net/sonodrogo/Forth%20Eorlingas.mp3
Next section is coming up in about an hour, so tune in!!

I think that's about all the news today. :)

Very cool deluby! I'm downloading Forth Eorlingas as we speak! You are the absolute queen of finding cool things on the web!

(I'm using cool a lot today - watched the first half of the SE with the cast commentary today, and EW says cool a lot. They all have words they say frequently - cool (EW), fantastic (I think that's Orli), amazing (Dom?), etc. It's really a lot of fun!)

Edit: wonderful music! Is it December yet??

Hi ((deluby))

Thank you for the birthday wishes and many appreciative thanks for the wonderful gifs-gifts and links you've posted. In fact, tys to all the faculty for the insightful discussions, photos, spoilers (which I am saving to read later).

I am SO ready to view all the goodies - (in mid-summer it seemed November would never be here soon enough!) - it's been fun reading the responses to the SE DVD from those who were lucky enough to have acquired a copy in advance (and you know who you are) :mad: - thoughtfully you're trying not to give away too much but you can hardly contain your excitement - I know you're dying to spill all. ;)

Having completed my nightly reading on-line, I now declare myself bleary eyed but smilingly ready for sleep knowing that 24 hours from now I shall have my very own precious SE DVD!!

Goodnight :)

Alright, here's the frodo bit from the new video on Sound designing from official site.
***edit: image deleted***

Need to go to bed now, am having a bad headache. http://www.imagemagician.org/images/deluby/headache.gif Gotta be fresh and sound for tomorrow!!

It is 10.30 am on 12th November - SE DVD DAY! I have just returned from a trip into town to purchase said goodie and I should be proclaiming with delight (while doing Frolijah's chicken dance!) 'I HAVE IT!... I HAVE IT!' In fact I am crying in despair, I DON'T HAVE IT!!! :mad: :mad: :mad:

There is a POWER CUT in town, and all the shops that sell DVD's are temporarily CLOSED. Can I have a Victor Meldrew moment - thanks. Here goes - Blossom cries, 'I DON'T BELIEVE IT!'
- I do appreciate all of you Faculty Loungers who live outside the UK are unlikely to have the slightest idea what I'm talking about - but I needed to do that!

We also have the power cut at home, and I'm here courtesy of my laptop's battery, which will probably expire at any moment, just to cap it all off!

Tg - thanks for that very comprehensive response to my last post. Sorry I got the Peters mixed up. I noticed you said the quotes were from Peter Owen when I came back here earlier this morning.
Regarding World War1: there is a film called 'Regeneration,' based on a novel by Pat Barker, which deals with shell-shock and the psychological effects caused by truamatic experiences (in this case, the horror of the trenches). It features two famous World War 1 poets - Siegfried Sassoon and Wilfred Owen - and is very moving. Owen's poetry is full of vivid imagery of the terrible agony he witnessed, of the depravities of war and the human suffering it inflicted. The film/book is set in a psychiatric hospital in Scotland, where soldiers are sent to be 'cured' of shell-shock by an army psychologist who is very caring, but ultimately incapable of 'saving' these men, as all the army is really interested in is getting them back to the front. I would recommend this film/book to anyone interested in this subject.
Btw, Wilfred Owen went back, and was killed during the last few days of the war.

Frodo's suffering can be compared to shell-shock, I think. He, more than any of the other characters in LOTR, experienced more personal despair and grief, a) by the constant inner conflict and mental torture inflicted upon him by the ring. b) by the sheer physical effort of carrying the ring. c) being subject to the continual oppressive presence of the Eye, and d) by the injuries he received. All these things contributed to Frodo's suffering, and his own subsequent sense of guilt/failure would only have increased his pain. Of the four hobbits, Frodo was the one who received least 'recognition' when they returned to The Shire. The other three attained a degree of personal 'glory' for want of a better word, while Frodo became more introspective and withdrawn, suffering in silence.

Oh dear. I am getting depressed. On the brighter side - hubby rang to see if I'd got the DVD (See - he does care, bless him!) and he's coming with me into town later (providing the power's back on - there's a fire at the power station apparently).

Thanks all for the little snippets from the SE DVD you've been bringing us poor things who have had to wait - it all helps to pass the time until we gets our hands on it!

Squires_lassll - belated happy birthday to you!
;)

I'm going now before the battery dies on me.
Hope you all have better luck than me when you go to buy the DVD - enjoy! Bye.

Blossom, I hope things work out so you get hold of the DVD soon. I'm writing this after having seen the first few of the hobbit-centric new and extended scenes, and wow!!! What a wealth of swoon-material! (OK, I know, wrong thread, but really! Really!)

Spoilers for the SE DVD, I suppose, as well as gushing and ranting....
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That scene with Frodo and Bilbo hiding from the SB's: It's soooo sweet! And cute! And sad. I love it! The dialogue, explaining that Frodo's parents died, and Bilbo trying to say how much he loves Frodo and not being able to beyond some "you'll do well" kind of platitutes....

And the scenes from the Green Dragon, too cute! And there's actually a moment there, where Frodo quips to the Gaffer and Co. about being proud of being "cracked like Bilbo" and hands them mugs of ale, where you're seeing Elijah Wood. Or Sandy in Flipper. The grinning, happy version that is not really Frodo. I loved that too.

But the crown of all (so far,mind you)........ The dialogue between Frodo and Sam as they're seeing the wood elves pass to the grey havens.... both with those beautiful and sad pensive faces we know from all those pics:

Sam: "They're leaving Middle Earth..."
Frodo: "Never to return."
Sam: " I dont know why............ it makes me sad".

If that isn't heartwrenching, angsty Froshadowing, I don't know what is!!!!

I hope you all don't mind me posting about this here, - I'll be sure to use proper spoiler warnings. Or I'll try to contain myself until most or all have seen the SE DVD.

Originally posted by Maeglian
Spoilers for the SE DVD
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That scene with Frodo and Bilbo hiding from the SB's: It's soooo sweet! And cute! And sad. I love it! The dialogue, explaining that Frodo's parents died, and Bilbo trying to say how much he loves Frodo and not being able to beyond some "you'll do well" kind of platitutes....

I haven't seen the DVD yet (hope to have it in 3 or 4 hours, if they're not sold out), but... Oh, my, from what's said here, that is so true to Bilbo that it warms my heart to think the people who wrote these movies understood him so well. :k It's too bad it didn't make it into the theatrical version, which I felt was lacking in that area.

I finally managed to watch the entire film with various RL interruptions inbetween.

To sum up without giving away lots of spoilers; there were actually a couple of scenes I would rather they hadn't altered, as I though the old ones were better. There are a couple or more of great new angstyness scenes that I will *love* to discuss, and there's lots of wonderful swooning material, especially in the first half of the film. There's one small scene when they've just entered Moria that I really liked....... Some great additional character development and interaction, background story, and humour..... and lots of nods to the Tolkien fans. You want to hear Smeagol, Undomiel, Caras Galadhon, Imladris, Celeborn, Elessar, Fennas Nogothrim, Dunedain, Luthien, etc. pronounced? You will!

It's late and I need to get myself off to bed. I am looking so much forward to discussing this, and seeing caps. I have no idea when I'll find the time to watch the cast commentary and all the additional material...... Oh well.

When we have reached a point where we can start discussing, could we *please* start with the scene where the Fellowship has just entered Lorien? How do we interpret Frodo's *and* the fellowship's behaviour and reactions there? I have *a lot* of thoughts after seeing that one twice...... That scene was unexpected and heart-wrenching and angsty. Poor Frodo! (Imagine a scene with Haldir being angsty! And did Frodo fall face first into a mud puddle *after* entering Lorien?) Oh, I can't wait to go on about this!!

Good night, all! :)

Usually I stay after work and do most of my message board reading and posting from the office before I go home -- but I'm not going to do that tonight!! There's a Dr. who's supposed to come in and pick up some paperwork I had for him--he's always here before this time, so, of course, the one day I want... need... to leave at a reasonable time, he's not here yet! :mad:

If he's not here by the time I get my computer and the other machines shut down, I'm leaving it somewhere he'll see it with his name on it. So...

Maeg--I'll try to pay special attention to that Lorien scene :) (assuming I can still get to the store before all the copies are sold :rolleyes: ).

Looking forward to having something to share. :)

Hi!

So many posts to read! :) You lot have been busy! :D

I hope those of you jammie people who have got your SE DVD are enjoying them and not wearing out the poor likkle DVD players to much! I'm getting mine for Xmas so it'll be a few weeks yet before I have the pleasure... Oh well at least I got 2 of the movie books today to tide me over a little. Actually...Hmm, I wonder if my local video rental store has got copies in? :D Maybe go and have a look, see if I can rent one for a couple of days... That would give me a little fix till Dec 25th! :cool: They've got some cool pics from the DVD up at bagendinn, I love the Green Dragon ones with Frodo, Sam and Rosie - hobbit boys and girls watching each other in the pub - just like Saturday night in my local! :D I can't wait to see the DVD, with all the new scenes and I'm especially looking forward to the commentaries - they're sharing a little of their LOTR experiences with us :)

ainon, you never know you may get your DVD sooner than you think, I got my movie books on Tuesday morning and I only ordered them on Sunday night!

My friend is coming over on Friday night so hopefully she will return my FOTR video, I am feeling a little lost without it!

Happy Belated Birthday Squires! Hope it was a good one.

(((Bloss))) - I hope the power cut is resolved quickly and you can get your DVD! Nothing worse when you're really looking forward to something... :( About that one post credit per page thingie you mentioned, I hadn't notice that either.

I got the Sunday Times aswell, one tiny little Frodo pic - but I did stare at it for ages! He looks so cold and sad in that pic, in need of a hug (((Frodo))) I liked the big ME/Aragorn poster, hopefully there will be more Frodo in the next editions. I handed the magazine to my mum to read, she's not a reader as such so will probably never pick up LOTR but she likes magazines (especially if there's a crossword or two in them :p ) so hopefully she will have a look at the LOTR stuff in the ST mag. Can't have her being dragged into the pictures post-December 18th not knowing her Eowyns from her Eomers, now, can we?! ;)

(((deluby))) - thanks for your last animation, I hope your headache goes away quickly, I had one last night while I was at work - it was rotten.

Oh well I think thats it now, speak to you later (probably in a few days time again due to work/college)

Hugs

L x

Originally posted by Maeglian
Sam: "They're leaving Middle Earth..."
Frodo: "Never to return."
Sam: " I dont know why............ it makes me sad".

If that isn't heartwrenching, angsty Froshadowing, I don't know what is!!!!

It's Froshadowing at its finest...poignant, subtle and elegantly done. PJ is a genius.

Oh, it's so quiet here!:D

Just some minor ooooh'ing over one of my favourite new scenes:

Spoiler for the SE DVD!!
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The scene that I unexpectedly *really, really* liked, was when the Fellowship has just entered Lorien. Haldir refuses them to go further, because "you bring great evil" - he's staring pointedly at Frodo. There's some niiiice elvish spoken in this scene, even some dwarf cursing involved..... and then Aragorn argues with Haldir while the rest of the fellowship sits waiting.
Frodo sits alone, the others keep sending him the occasional glance before turning away. Not only has Frodo more mud then ever on his face, and looks absolutely, angstily swoonworthy, which Ariel of course already has picked up on, posting several caps in the harem..... but you can just see that whole scene screaming self-accusation and self-recrimination. It's so evident there that Frodo blames himself for Gandalf's death, and probably believes that the others blame him too. In a way, he seems to be feeling that the "Great evil" referred to him, not the ring..... Maybe I'm overdoing the interpretation. But I loved that one. And in a small way, it's even a Froshadowing of what will come at the end of RotK: Frodo blaming himself for having "failed", and others keeping distance or going about their business.
And then it's *Boromir* who steps in and tries to set things right!

Wish I had time to study this further. Details of how and why everyone looks and behaves like they do..... But no. No time. Gotta go. :(

Maeglian, I so agree with your interpretation!

This scene completely blew me away....

LOL! And I found myself thinking: "The Faculty is gonna be on these microexpressions like flies on honey!" <snicker>

The incredible distinct and amazingly subtle expressions flickering over Frodo's face in this scene are some of the best acting I've seen from him. His entire body language, posture and facial expressions all combine in showing an amazing array of feelings: grief, fatigue, defensiveness, guilt, remorse--it's an angst fest and so heart wrenching I almost can't watch it.

:( :( Poor Frodo.....

Man, it is quiet in here! Now I wonders what everybody's up to that's keeping them away from here.

TG: Hope you got your DVD in the end. Heck, I hope everybody got it. I can't wait to get the discussions going on it.

Okay, Maeg, since you started it I'll give a few of my own thoughts on entering Lorien:

Spoilers

Peter Jackson gives some good insight into the new scenes entering Lorien. He says that Frodo fears that his companion's are looking at him because it is the thing he carries which stops Haldir from letting them pass. Not so much guilt over Gandalf's death. PJ says that of course his companions aren't thinking this, it's just what Frodo thinks they're thinking. And of course these scenes of the rest of the Fellowship looking towards Frodo are what we all know from the Miror scene.

The one thing I missed about this scene was Haldir looking directly at Frodo when saying: "She is waiting for you," but the rest of the scene makes up for it. I love that it's Boromir that comes to Frodo's aid when he's feeling alienated by the others. In the original movie, nobody warns Frodo about Boromir until Galadriel does in the mirror scene. But in the Special Edition, Gandalf has already hinted (as they were entering Moria) that maybe he shouldn't fully trust everybody in the Fellowship. So I wonder how Boromir's kind words at this stage of the film were meant to play. I must watch that scene again. I've only seen the movie once properly. The rest of the time I was concentrating more on the commentry than on the dialogue.


Still on the Special Edition, still under Spoilers. This is kind of off-topic, but does go back to something we were dicussing a while back (which was also off-topic - shame on us! :D) regarding Harry Sinclair. According to Peter Jackson's commentary, that's not actually HS's voice that says "No" at the Crack of Doom, but Hugo Weaving's! I have to say I was very surprised by this. I wonder why they didn't just keep Harry's in there??


End Spoilers

Originally posted by Eagles' Eyrie
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Spoilers

Still on the Special Edition, still under Spoilers. This is kind of off-topic, but does go back to something we were dicussing a while back (which was also off-topic - shame on us! :D) regarding Harry Sinclair. According to Peter Jackson's commentary, that's not actually HS's voice that says "No" at the Crack of Doom, but Hugo Weaving's! I have to say I was very surprised by this. I wonder why they didn't just keep Harry's in there??

I know that the entire movie was dubbed over with re-recorded dialog after the filming was done. Perhaps Harry wasn't available to do the "looping" work, so they just substituted Hugo's voice. Seems plausible to me.


End Spoilers



I watched the SE DVD last night! I had been skipping over spoilers like mad in order to keep it all a surprise, and I'm so glad I did! It was like little gifts sprinkled throughout the film, and my husband and I were almost gleeful as each new bit came on. I adore it, but I'm going to have to watch the new stuff again before I have any commentary on any of it beyond "Thank you, PJ! Thank you, thank you, thank you!" LOL!

I do have a tecnical question, though: There are at least two spots (that I noticed) on my DVD where the picture and sound freeze momentarily before continuing. I believe they are both in "transition" scenes, where you can skip to the beginning of the scene. Anyway, one is when the camera pans up Orthanc tower just before the action recommences inside, and the other spot is just before Galadriel enters the field of vision when she passes the sleeping Fellowship on her way to the Mirror.

Did anyone else have this happen? I'm trying to decide whether to exchange my DVD's or just learn to live with the minor annoyance of it.

Thanks! :)