I did one of my searches on old message boards in various places (using one search engine).

I focussed my search on the days before LOTR because I like to see how people reacted to Elijah Wood before that.


These are just a couple of things I found and I’m not just selecting the good ones. Elijah Wood usually gets good reactions and I only see a couple of “he sucks” comments (usually followed by a couple of defensive reactions).

In one thread, people were talking about a tv movie ‘Tom and Huck’ and apparently, they were annoyed by the child actor in it and child actors in general. The name Elijah Wood came up:
Written in 1996, by a Jody Boyd:
“For dramas, at least in the past, Elijah Wood movies have been off limits for me and the theater. This isn't because I got a thing for Elijah. It's because he is such a good actor that when he displays similar emotions or reactions that reach into my past, I may need some time alone to recover.”

A thread about ‘child actors’:
A person with the name JD Ahmanson wrote in 1995:
“I haven't seen it (it's in black and white), but my vote goes to Elijah Wood, for his entire body of work. All you have to do is watch his movies and compare the characters he has played to one another. Each : one is so different, you think you're looking at a different person, yet Elijah is so natural in the character, you'd think he was playing himself. I can't think of any adult actors, much less other kids, that can do that!”


This is from a discussion from 1996, with the title 'Culkin vs Wood'. One person writes that he/she thinks that Culkin is a superior actor. One of the reactions:
“I have absolutely nothing at all against Macaulay. In fact, I like the kid. But if you really believe what you're seeing, then you're deaf, dumb and blind. You're aware that Macaulay's the blonde haired kid and Elijah's the Brown haired one, right?”
And another reaction:
“Face it, Culkin sucks. Elijah is an exceptionally talented young actor. Not a child actor, like Mac, but a young actor.”
The discussion is quite good actually, mainly about Culkin and his dad/manager at the time and the comparison with Elijah.
One of them said that Culkin is sent to acting school, every time he gets a movie role. Culkin mainly depends on his cuteness which isn’t the case with Elijah. Others defended Macaulay saying that the fact that he goes to acting school each time doesn’t have to mean a thing. Different actors prepare in a different way.



two long posts in one day...I'll stop talking for a while

Moondancer--As far as I know, the only "pool" of negative opinions of Elijah was among Tolkien readers after he was cast as Frodo. And I think it was somewhat telling that most of the people who complained were of just the right age to know him from only Flipper/Deep Impact/The Faculty, certainly not his best work (many of them had seen him only in The Faculty). I don't remember anyone who was negative mentioning his childhood work.

Moondancer quoted a 1995 message board:

. . . my vote goes to Elijah Wood, for his entire body of work. All you have to do is watch his movies and compare the characters he has played to one another. Each : one is so different, you think you're looking at a different person, yet Elijah is so natural in the character, you'd think he was playing himself.
That’s what I have been thinking as I have worked my way through EJW’s repertoire over the past few months. When I saw him in LotR, I thought he was good, but I also sort of thought that he was, in a sense, “playing himself.” It wasn’t until I saw Mikey and Stu and Huck and the others that I realized (as somebody once said of a very different performer – David Bowie in his Ziggy days) “That’s not him up there!” As someone else here said (Serena??), Elijah really does disappear into his characters. Unfortunately, that kind of acting is underappreciated by some people just because it DOES seem so natural.

And Moondancer, I love the description of Flemish that you quoted:

A strange language spoken in Flanders and consisting largely of the consonants v,s,c,h,r and k. Dutch is surprisingly easy to learn. Simply fill your mouth with crisps and then speak English and German simultaneously without breathing.

My step-grandfather was Welsh, and sometimes used to speak Welsh around the house. My impression as a child was always that that language had no vowels, either (except “y”), and sounded sort of like gargling. (No offense to any Welsh members who might be out there.)

I love the quote about the dutch language. A few years ago I abandoned an attempt to learn it becuase I couldn't get to grips with the strange spelling system (Ijs = Ice?). Earlier this year I tried again, as I was visiting the country. I persevered with the spelling/pronunciation and found that with a good background in English and German it was a doddle. It felt like verbally it had evolved along with these two, and then when it came time to form a writing system, the Dutch had locked themself away, so they wouldn't be influenced by either.

Elijah's wonderful catalogue of roles is what got me hooked on him. I found it incredible that a young lad could consistently put up such good and varied performances. I kept having to remind myself that it was actually him in 'The War', and his attempt at the cockney accent in Oliver wasn't too bad at all. It was a shame the pathetic lad in the role of Oliver ruined that film. And he managed to be so strange and withdrawn in Ice Storm that if that was all I had seen, I wouldn't have felt any attraction for him at all.

I think it is a shame that because he makes it seem so easy and doesn't overact, some people don't take him as seriously as they should. I remembr reading a terrible review of Ash Wednesday that said that as usual his acting matched his name - wooden.
Alan Rickman is often feted as one of Britain's greatest actors, but having watched most of his film roles, he is always just a variation on himself and his American accent can't touch Elijah's English one. And Jamie Bell got an oscar nomimnation (it might have been an Oscar even) for Billy Elliott, without having any other roles und his belt for comparison.

Its a pity the awards can't be back dated.

Hallo girls!!

Were is everyone??? :(

It is so queit in here!!!! :(

love/wood

Hi, Wood -- Yes, it is very quiet; so I'll make some noise. The new (November) issue of Premiere here in the US has a couple of EJW-related bits. There is a blurb about FOUR football (soccer) themed movies that are in the works, including The Yank. They say it is:

Due in 2005, pending U.S. distribution. Its plot and former title, Hooligans, suggest simiilarities to the U.K. flick The Football Factory, but with Frodo Baggins front and center, this Yank could make bank.
Tiny picture of Elijah accompanies this. I hope that this outburst of football/soccer productions doesn't hurt The Yank 's chances.

The same issue has some of Viggo’s photos that he took during the LotR shoot. One of them is also on the FotR EE, showing Elijah napping in what looks like a very messy kid’s room. Is that a teddy bear that he has his leg slung over??? Also a hand-scribbled note from Viggo that includes the following:

With the greater Fellowship in mind, including all who were somehow changed by watching Peter Jackson’s “Lord of the Rings,” the following from J.R.R. Tolkien himself is offered: “In sorrow we must go, but not in despair. Behold! We are not bound for ever to the circles of the world, and beyond them is more than memory. Farewell!”
The article also has (in preparation for the RotK EE release) a few quotes from cast and crew, including two from Elijah. I think these have been published before, but one of them (referring to the scene where Gandalf talks to Pippin about death) is still good:

The scene represents what I love most about these films, those intimate human moments that we can all relate to, amidst the majesty of the epic story.

thank you for that Pelagia!!!!! :k

I have looked every were for some news
but i can`t find anything!!

Has this "magic man" desepered from earth
and become an angel or what!!!

love/wood

:eek: Shhhhhh. Don't say that!

Sorry Shadowcat!!!! :(
I diden`t mean it that way!!! :(

But it seams like he just can diseper like that!!!!
Thats what i meant!!
I mean he has the face like an angel so maybe he is
and left,maybe he is not from this earth,the universe
is very big you know!!!

I hope you understands me know!!!!! :k
sorry for the misunderstanding!!!!!!!!!!!! :(

love/wood

Hi, Wood. I'm sorry it's been so quiet! I've been extremely busy with RL, work and family issues, and there's this US election coming up which has many of us quite busy. I expect things will warm up again for the EE of ROTK -- that will be fun!

Thank you for the news, Pelagia! It's interesting how studios will bring out similar movies in the same year, such as Armegeddon and Deep Impact. I speculate that it's just one more way to compete with each other. Rather irritating. I hope that The Yank does do well, however. I hope it's not too violent. I do not plan to see Sin City in the theatre at all, due to its content. I do plan to see EII. I really appreciate the link to the Ukranian history article. I hope the movie does justice to this topic. I don't want the world to forget what we learned with so much pain and anguish in WWII.

Take care, everyone. I'm reading, even if I'm not posting! Cheers.

...I hope that The Yank does do well, however. I hope it's not too violent. I do not plan to see Sin City in the theatre at all, due to its content.
I'm hoping that Elijah's presence in the movie will bring it to the U.S. As far as I know, we didn't see "The Football Factory" at all here, unless it was in very limited release. I don't want to wish bad things on the other football movies, but Hooligans/The Yank may not have as much competition here as it does in Britain or Europe in general.

And, Mariole, I feel the same way about Sin City--especially if Elijah's only in part of it. I think I'll be using the "choose scene" feature on the DVD pretty actively for that one. But I'm really looking forward to EII--I'm trying not to get my expectations too high, so I won't be disappointed, especially after seeing that the movie will be based on an excerpt. OTOH, IMVHO a short story is a better length for a movie than an entire book, if you don't want to cut a lot of things out, so maybe using an excerpt will prove to be a good thing.

....Talk of Sin City leads to the first of two somewhat on-topic comments:

Just saw an ad saying that Neil Patrick Harris is going to play a serial killer on one of the Law and Order shows tonight (there are so many versions of that program, I can't keep them straight :rolleyes: ). If Doogie Howser, M.D., can play a serial killer, certainly Huck Finn can pull off a cannibal :p .


-----And I ran across something yesterday that might be of interest, even though it didn't mention Elijah. One reason I haven't been here quite so much lately is that I've been spending time on a couple of other discussion boards, and on a board for people dealing with chronic depression, there's a thread on ESOTSM, with the question of whether people would want to erase any of their memories if they could. The people who posted had seen ESOTSM, so they weren't responding to the question "out of the blue" but had reflected on what the movie had to say about it. Even so, as opposed to other discussions/comments I've seen on the subject (including what Elijah's said), 10 out of the 12 people who posted in the thread said that yes, definitely, they had some memories they'd erase if it were possible. Not enough people for a "scientific study," but I still thought it was quite telling--not everyone comes at that question from the same point of view.

---------

Whiteling's drawing of "The Ring Is Mine" is online now. Believe me, this is one that it really pays to see in full size! The page with the "thumbnails" of her drawings is at: http://www.frodolivesin.us/contributions/id2.htm ; then just click on the small drawing to get to the full-size one.

There won't be any more October additions to FrodoLivesinUs, but I'm working on some things for November that may get posted a bit early. I'll let you know... :)

As a fan not only of LotR, but also of such violent movies as Robocop, Aliens, and Pulp Fiction, I'm definitely going to be checking out Sin City. I'm less of a fan of film noir, but I'm looking forward to seeing how they do the backgrounds, etc.

Oh, and off-topic, but Neil Patrick Harris has been doing a lot of things other than Doogie Howser--he's been on Broadway a lot lately, including playing the young "assistant" in Sweeney Todd. This won't be his first killer role--he also played the dual roles of the Narrator and Lee Harvey Oswald in Sondheim's Assassins from earlier this year (I am so bummed that I wasn't able to see it, since the original recording is one of my favorite Broadway albums, with Victor Garber as John Wilkes Booth).

Whiteling's drawing of "The Ring Is Mine" is online now. Believe me, this is one that it really pays to see in full size! The page with the "thumbnails" of her drawings is at: http://www.frodolivesin.us/contributions/id2.htm ; then just click My only possible response is this:

--------------------
--------------------
~~~~~~~~~~~
_________________
__________
*****************
>>>>>>>>>>>>
<<<<<<<<<<<

;)

~grumpy (rugs cleaned)(trees pruned)(closet emptied)(~grumpy wasted)(The One Lad has been quiet lately, hasn't he?)

Yesterday and today I'm getting some wonky messages as I try to reply and try to use the quote feature. Hope this works..

Pelagia!! I love that pic of Elijah in Premiere!! Isn't he adorable!!! He is this uncanny mixture of hobbit and human (duh--frolijah?). And so, so young looking but also dressed as Frodo, also so timeless appearing. I wonder who that room belongs to? The hobbit who climbed Mt Doom, kipped out in a tornado-messed room of kiddy stuff. Beautiful :k

I hope someone finds it to post...soon (moondancer??? :D )

Here you go! I think this is the one? And, IIRC, this was Sean's daughter's room.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v377/honeyelf/toys.jpg

My last word on Sean's book, I promise!
He somewhat redeemed himself for me by saying that he learned how to be a better friend from Sam.

I apologize to any I may have offended with my earlier post. I'm just a bit dissapointed that the actor who portrayed Sam, one of my two all-time favorite literary characters, doesn't seem to understand that it's Sam's very humility and loving devotion that make him a noble hero. Not all the sword swinging; that was only a small part of his heroism.

Topic Whiplash ahead!

Meditations on the Stale Smell of a Dump of an Apartment

Saw ESotSM again on Friday night with my family. Savored every slimy little Patrick moment. This time around I particularly enjoyed/payed attention to Patrick's exploration of Joel's apartment. This little scrap of a scene was so revealing of Patrick's interior vacuity.

I loved his remark about the apartment having a bit of a stale smell. Patrick seemingly doesn't realize that his own apartment probably has a similar stale odor, perhaps even a gamey one, which he's become innured to.

Then Patrick observes that Joel's domicile is "kind of uninspired." He's a little smug in this observation, perhaps betraying the hope that he'll soon be upgrading his circumstance to one more "inspired;" he probably imagines he'll soon be sharing living space with the quirky Clementine.

We know he's already skulked about Clementine's apartment in a similar manner, because he admits to having filched a pair of her panties. On that night he'd observed her face, blank and abandoned in sleep, and found her beautiful. He's probably looked around at her belongings, noting the fringe of blue beads on the lamp shade, the odd gathering of potatoe people, and the metal porch seat under to the window. In Patrick's world these signify character. He imagines himself "in love." Patrick thinks one can fall in love at the sight of a beautiful face, can have that "love" returned if he says the right things, (even if he doesn't feel or understand what he's saying.)

But he really knows nothing of Clementine. He doesn't know how unsure of herself she is. This is the girl who observed to Joel that she applies her character from a bottle, refering to her outrageously colored hair. Clementine wants to connect, to be loved, to be heard, to listen.

Patrick has seen only a shadow of this woman, a few edges limned out by the quirky furnishing of her apartment, her outre manner of dress, her profanity-laced vocabulary. He doesn't understand that he can't love her, because he doesn't know more than a handfull of facts about her.

Love comes with knowing a person, accepting all their faults and flaws. Joel's memories reveal that he does know Clementine. His unwillingness to let go, even of her most difficult traits, reveals that he does love her, and ultimately he decides that he can try again with her even knowing what he's "in for."

'nuff of me droning on.

honey!

Hallo girls!!

Iam deffinetivt going to see Sin City!!!
I just love that kind of movie!!!
and i can`t wait to see what Elijah can do
with his caracter!!!

love/wood

So glad that people are back on here! I was beginning to worry that this Faculty was meeting the fate of, well THE Faculty. . . .

honeyelf: Yes, that’s the picture that’s in Premiere. I want to know where his other leg is! Speaking of his reported (by Billy Boyd on the FotR bonus features) ability to nap anytime, anywhere: am I hallucinating, or is there a clip somewhere in the appendices for TTT that shows the cast and crew standing around the set during a break, and Elijah is stretched out on the ground, apparently fast asleep? I swear I saw that, but I haven't been able to find it again.

Also, honeyelf, great comments on Patrick in ESOTSM. I, too, thought that his derogatory comments about Joel’s apartment were probably a pot/kettle phenomenon. As for his “love” for Clementine: Doesn’t she say something to Joel about how many men are attracted to her because they think that she will somehow “save” them from their everyday existences? I think Patrick is one more example of that. (I wouldn’t call Patrick “slimy,” however; I see him more as just pathetic.)

As for Sin City, I’ll withhold judgment (on whether to see it) until I see the reviews. I can take a fair amount of violence so long as it’s not gratuitous. On the other hand, EJW’s character kills women, doesn’t he? And that kind of movie or book does give me the creeps.

Sharpe’s Girl: Are you a Sondheim fan? He’s one of my gods.

tgshaw: Interesting that so many people on that thread you mention would do a Lacuna Inc. (though hopefully from a more competent operation). And that raises a question that perhaps has already been discussed here: having left Middle-earth, will Frodo ultimately be able to forget the torment he went through in connection with the Ring?

whiteling's illustration of “The Ring is mine” is maybe even more disturbing than the original. I think what really unnerves me about his face in that scene is the way his irises are rolled up a bit, so that the whites of his eyes are visible below them (the irises).

Hi Faculty!

I adore that messy bedroom pic - he looks such a peaceful little hobbit :)
I never realised it was one of Viggo's pics. For some reason, I'd always assumed it was the bedroom of one of PJ's kids but someone mentioned it was Allie's room. That surprises me - I wouldn't have thought Christine would have allowed all that mess :D When I see pics like this, I just burn with curiosity. I want to know when, where, the exact circumstances surrounding it. I believe this pic was shown on one of the dvd extras but there was no explanation. And I can't bear to think about that 800 hours of behind-the-scenes footage just sitting on a shelf somewhere. :(

Hi Shireling!!

I think it is on the extanded version of fellow ship
the part when billy and dom are talking about Elijah,
that he must have been so tired becuse he never hade
a day off!! Do you know what part it is i am talking about?
I think it is almost at the beginning but i am not sure
Hope you can find it!!! :z:

I`m like you!!!! I want to know more!!!!!!!!!
About everything that consurnes Elijah and his filming!!!!!!!!!

Love/wood

Pelagia:

I want to know where his other leg is!

If you find it, let me know!!!

I want to take a moment to honor the memory of another beautiful and talented man

Christopher Reeve

The courage of this man should serve as a reminder that when life gives you a lemon...you make lemonade
I want to send my love and admiration for his bravery and the love.. courage and devotion his beautiful wife Dana and his 3 children showed him over the past years...this family has showed me what true love is capable of

If you never got the chance to read the book Chris Reeve wrote..."Still Me" do yourself a favor and pick it up...it is inspiring

It is a sad day....but somewhere Christopher Reeve is walking tall....and that makes me happy :z:

(Yep, I've been lurking.)

Ylla, OT back to you: I did not know about Christopher Reeve. His performance in the first Superman was the only one (until Tobey Maguire's) that made me able to take a comic book character seriously. I thought he struck only right, real notes in that role. Since then, I have admired him in many films, since they happened to be ones I wanted to see whether he was in them or not (like The Bostonians and The Remains of the Day). And perhaps, since his terrible accident, I have come to admire him even more as a person. Thank you for posting that, Ylla, OT or not.

-- Mechtild

from tgshaw
10 out of the 12 people who posted in the thread said that yes, definitely, they had some memories they'd erase if it were possible.
Very interesting, and very saddening. I can see how many people might want to have one or more traumatic events removed. What is the purpose of reliving them, now that the life lesson is learned? Very sad and telling.

from Honeyelf
Joel's memories reveal that he does know Clementine. His unwillingness to let go, even of her most difficult traits, reveals that he does love her
Wow, Honey, you just nailed this one. I love this thought! The good, with the bad, and no one is perfect -- just perfect for you.

Thank you for posting the Viggo pic. It's very silly, and compelling, too.

And fond farewell to Christopher Reeve, a brave and amazing man.

Oh, yeas i heard it an the news Ylla!!!!

I feel so sorry for his family, his wife has lost a partner
in life and his kids have lost a father!! :(
I hope they will cope with it!! :z:

love/wood

Thanks, Honey - that's one of my favourite pics too! Had been wondering where on earth it was taken (am relieved it wasn't his own trailer! :D)

Tg, so sorry you missed the Howard Shore symphony. I do hope all that unpleasant stuff is behind you soon.

Pelagia, fabulous alphabet poem … and the metre does fit most of the time! How on earth did you do it?

Moondancer, great link – thanks yet again for your amazing Internet searches! As you say, that Cass Pennant must be one fascinating guy (quote from website: “His fearsome presence helped prevent many a weekend bloodbath” :eek: ) and he seems to write extremely well. What fun to think that our Lij has friends who are ex-convicts and “rucked with the most vicious thugs and mixed with dangerous villains from London's East End gangs” before reforming and becoming a writer and general sage :cool: Tried to buy HIS autobiog (to compensate for Sean’s :eek: ), but the payment system didn’t work. Bother. Will try again.

And what an interesting discussion about Flemish, Dutch and French (I feel sheepish whenever I speak French in Brussels, MD – I tend to chicken out, because my spoken Dutch has got lost somewhere, even though I understand written Dutch). Interesting you mentioned the Scottish “r” sound in Flemish: once a few years ago I was on my way home from Scotland by car and ferry, and stopped at a service station in Flanders only to hear some women speaking what sounded to me exactly like Scottish English, though I was too far away to make out the words. I moved a bit closer and realised it was Flemish. Many words used in Scottish English (I don’t mean the real Anglo-Saxon Scots language, which is rarely spoken, nor do I mean Scots Gaelic) appear to come from Flemish and the pronunciation is amazingly similar (e.g. the separation of adjacent consonants, as in “keruk” for kirk – almost the same word for church in Flemish (kerk), and pronounced identically!).

from Skater Girl:
And Jamie Bell got an oscar nomination (it might have been an Oscar even) for Billy Elliott, without having any other roles und his belt for comparison.

Jamie played that role extremely well, but Elijah has played a dozen equally demanding roles equally well. Sadly most of the movies weren’t such big hits as BE. That’s why Jamie got the nomination (and, I think, why Adrian Brody got the Oscar for The Pianist. Their faces just fitted at the time). That, sadly, is how the Oscars seem to work.

From Honeyelf:
My last word on Sean's book, I promise!
Mine too …

He somewhat redeemed himself for me by saying that he learned how to be a better friend from Sam.
Ditto….

I apologize to any I may have offended with my earlier post.
Me too. But I stand by it. See further explanation below.

from Achila (hey girl!):
At this point, after living and working with him for 4 years, I doubt that there are any surprises. So I can't imagine any of them being the least put out about what's in his book. Ultimately, the one who holds himself up to the harshest criticism is Sean himself and I truthfully applaud him for giving us a "warts and all" view into his psyche. He could've easily written something that for all intents and purposes would have been a lie, to make himself look better.

Jealousy, ambition: I didn’t (and wouldn’t) criticise Sean for having those feelings, and certainly not for being honest about them. His apparent honesty is quite endearing in places – or might be in a different context, such as an autobiography honestly marketed as such. I know only too well what it feels like to be jealous and ambitious and vindictive and paranoid, and I’ve seen and borne the brunt of those traits in others too. They are general human traits that most of us have to fight against, after all. Yet Sean has chosen to write a book about exactly those feelings and pretend it’s a book about the filming of LOTR! It’s nothing of the kind – it’s a book about Sean's hangups.

OK, apologies in advance to any Sean fans around here. Read on only if you don’t mind reading a negative review …..

What little Sean does say about LOTR is almost exclusively about himself and most is on the various DVDs already. Sean got away with this tedious autobiography, and found a publisher, only because of LOTR. Some customer reviews at amazon.com castigate him for using the LOTR fans in this way – conning them, in fact, into buying his juvenile outpourings. I suppose you have to hand it to him for finding a way of making money out of his own need to make money (large parts of the book, including the prologue, are about that!). The whole thing is quite amusingly self-referential, if you see what I mean.

The other thing I regret is that Sean has already managed to put some people off watching the films again – at least one amazon reviewer says that explicitly (she fears watching the scenes featuring Samwise now, which means nearly all the scenes with Frodo from TTT onwards), and several others imply it – if you don’t believe me, read those reviews to the end. I hope Sean hasn't destroyed the aura of team spirit that – despite all the hardships and arguments – apparently surrounded the whole filming experience except in his vicinity, and that PJ won’t hold that against him. More than that, I hope he hasn't prevented someone else from writing the less biased, less blinkered, more informative, more insightful and detailed account we were hoping for. (Dunno … maybe someone will be inspired by this to write the definitive history? Or maybe it will inspire New Line to allow the gems of the 800 hours of behind-the-scenes footage to be published after all? Let’s hope there’s a silver lining to all this!)

And ultimately, we're comparing him to Elijah and that's not really fair.
We don’t need to. Sean seems to have cast himself as Elijah’s polar opposite (Elijah being the guy who won’t even have a website because he dislikes the idea of self-promotion!).

pushed the wrong button and *poof*...my post was gone. :mad:

According to an interview in the Czech magazin "Reflex", Elijah did in Prague, he has finally finished reading LOTR!
Somebody translated the article from Czech, to German to English. This quote is a copy and paste. You can find the rest in the LiveJournal community/lotrboys_daily (the translation was done by LJuser Mys1985)
Q. Especially since you’ve become an international star after playing Frodo. By the way, had you read the books before making the movie?

No. I only started reading them in New Zealand, but didn’t really last long. I put them aside pretty soon. And I wasn’t the only one. Most of us hadn’t read the books and only started on them, when they’d gotten the part. We used the books mostly to gain a better insight in our character, because they’re obviously more detailed in the book than they were in the script, but soon we noticed, that it was needless, because with all the character-discussion we had, Tolkien’s world literally came to life in front of our eyes. In such moments it was nearly impossible for me to go back to the books and emerge myself in that world. I only went back to the book after I’d finished filming.


Actor Bernard Hill, who plays King Théoden told me, how much the book bored him, how impossible it was to read, how long and complicated he thought it was. Were you also one of those people bored by the tryolgy?

Bernard said that? Yeah, I know that statement. I agree with him in some points. The books are amazing, I finally did finish reading them, but I have to admit, there are parts which I had to fight to get through, and even hardcore Tolkien-Fans have to agree with me on that one. There’s such a flood of names, Information, Places and people in his books readers have to remember, that every normal person must get the feeling 'I’m never gonna manage...'


...about the dutch language. A few years ago I abandoned an attempt to learn it becuase I couldn't get to grips with the strange spelling system (Ijs = Ice?). Earlier this year I tried again, as I was visiting the country.
You tried to learn Dutch? Why? (I mean, it's a language spoken by only a very limited number of people on this earth, why did/do you want to learn it? Is there a specific reason? (if you don't mind me asking this question)

Ice in Dutch is written as IJs. IJ is a "twosound", which is sort of a marriage between the two letters I and J and together they make a new sound, when you pronounce them properly. You have to hear that there's two sounds in there but it's different than just pronouncing I + J.
So, because they're in this marriage, you have to write them the same way: either both in capital letters "IJs" (like in the beginning of a sentence) or both in small letters "ijs" but not Ijs.
:)



Many words used in Scottish English (I don’t mean the real Anglo-Saxon Scots language, which is rarely spoken, nor do I mean Scots Gaelic) appear to come from Flemish and the pronunciation is amazingly similar (e.g. the separation of adjacent consonants, as in “keruk” for kirk – almost the same word for church in Flemish (kerk), and pronounced identically!).
Really?
I love Scotland and their accents (which varies a lot from region to region). I love listening to Billy Boyd.
Your language skills are amazing, Serena. How many languages can you understand and/or speak?


Sean's book: I'm reading it at the moment and I'm on page 112 out of 319 (he has just met Elijah).
You know, I actually do like it. I started reading it, knowing that it's not a LOTR behind the scenes and that it's an autobiography and thus 99% or so about himself. So, maybe my expectations weren't so high to begin with.
I like it. It's not the best written book (not to be compared with Michael J Fox's book for example) but it isn't as bad as I expected it. Sure, he's sometimes tough on others but he's very tough on himself too. He offers some insight in the life of an actor (auditions, insecurity of where the next job is coming from, having to do crap movies to keep working because you can't just sit and wait until Scorsese gives you a call,...)




Christopher Reeve.
I so wanted him to reach his goal and actually make a couple of steps.
He fought so hard. People liked him before the accident for being superman but they started to really admire him as a true life hero afterwards.
In days like that, I really want to believe in an afterlife where he's running right this minute, released from that prison his body had become.

wood: I think you’re right in saying that the picture of Elijah napping turns up when Billy is talking about Elijah never having a day off. IIRC, it’s on Disc 4 of the FotR EE, and I think it’s in the section called “The Fellowship of the Cast.” (If it’s not there, it’s in “A Day in the Life of a Hobbit.”) I wish Viggo would publish a book of all the pix he took during the shoot. Remember how, on the DVD, Liv Tyler talks about how he covered the walls and ceiling of his trailer with them? Surely there would be enough for a book.

And I’m with you, shireling:

I can't bear to think about that 800 hours of behind-the-scenes footage just sitting on a shelf somewhere.

I was really shocked this morning when I heard about Christopher Reeve’s death. I hadn’t read anything about him recently, but apparently his health had been poor this past year (several infections). Many people assume that if you’re quadriplegic or paraplegic, your problem is just paralysis; but there are so many other things that can go wrong because of that. He really was inspiring, and also so modest: on NPR this morning, they played a bit from an interview in which he said (in response to the interviewer praising him for his courage) that he wasn’t doing anything more than thousands of other people in his situation were doing, every day of their lives.

I hope this attempt at quoting someone works!



You tried to learn Dutch? Why? (I mean, it's a language spoken by only a very limited number of people on this earth, why did/do you want to learn it? Is there a specific reason? (if you don't mind me asking this question)



Firstly, I just love learning languages. I can speak French and German fairly well, and really enjoy talking to the 'natives' and watching TV in countries that speak those languages. 10 years ago I visited Den 'Bosch for a skating competition and felt rather vunerable and isolated as I couldn't speak,or more importantly read the language. We went there again in July this year, and I wasn't going to make the same mistake twice. It was a good job I had learnt the language, since we got lost several times and had to ask for directions from people who spoke no English at all. It is a myth that everyone in Holland speaks English. Why should they, after all! One day I will learn Elvish, when I have time!

Whiteling - your Frodo drawings are amazing. The Angelijah is the same picture I have on my computer desktop, and I could display them side by side. The emotion in the face is identical. You are one talented artist.

You people have got me more hooked than ever on Elijah the actor. I have just watched ROTK again, but this time with my finger ever ready on the pause button to catch all his wonderful expressions. My husband thinks I am nuts.

I also watched Sam very carefully, and I find it hard to equate the whining, self obsessed Sean Astin I found in his book to the solid heroic character on the screen. I suppose that just confirms his talent as an actor. His character in Dish Dogs was for me close to the real Sean Astin, annoying me immensly, while at the same time making me feel sorry for him.

The way I look at it, everyone's got issues. Some are just more forthcoming with them than others! Sean has a tendency to be an Agony Aunt over his, obsessing over every imperfection and perceived slight from others (perhaps as a result of his family history). Elijah is equally open about some of his issues, but instead of agonizing over them, he's very breezy about them (his comment in the Four Hobbits interview in last fall's Premiere magazine about his concerns over his, er, nether regions; his father issues as mentioned in the Rolling Stone interview from January 2002). As a result, Sean can look broody and whiny, whereas Elijah retains his blithe man-about-town reputation.

I really think that, as he matures and becomes a bit more introspective about his life and psyche, he might eventually put out a fascinating memoir in about 30 years or so. IMO, anyone who publishes a memoir before the age of 50 had better have something remarkable to share with the public, or tell his/her story in a singular way.

(Edit to add: Yes, I am a huge Sondheim fan, Pelagia! Assasins is one of my all-time favorite albums, and I adore so many of his songs, many of which are so incongruous. "Pretty Lady" is one of the most gorgeous songs I've ever heard, and it's all about a bunch of Navy guys harassing the local women in an exotic locale.)

Just a little FYI...

At our local dance/theater center, I was glancing at some books. I picked up one called Magnificent Monologues for Kids by Chambers Stevens. At the end he has a list of magnificent performances by young actors that are his particular favorites and ones he feels are great study material. Of course, our Elijah is listed along with Thora Birch for Paradise. :D The list includes Henry Thomas, Christina Ricci, Anna Paquin, Jodie Foster, Mara Wilson, and Patty Duke for the 1962 The Miracle Worker among others.

I haven't had a chance yet to read Sean's book until it comes out on the 14th I believe. I don't think I'll like it but I do want to read it.

Regarding Clementine...does anyone else feel her problems may come from the fact that she appears to be an alcoholic?

I haven't had a chance yet to read Sean's book until it comes out on the 14th I believe. I don't think I'll like it but I do want to read it.

Shelbyshire, you want my copy? I'll mail it to you if you like.

Regarding Clementine...does anyone else feel her problems may come from the fact that she appears to be an alcoholic?

I don't think she's a alchoholic. I think she just wants to be heard. In the scene where she talks about the ugly doll named Clementine, that she wants to will to be beautiful, where were the people who should have told her she was beautiful as a child? I think she just wants what we all want; love. I can sympathize with Clementine, and the unintended rejection she feels from Joel sometimes. She is dysfunctional, but I don't think she was intended to be an alchoholic.

Skater:
My husband thinks I am nuts.

:D I think maybe we are all a little nuts, but where's the problem? What shall we name this newly discovered epidemic? :eek: Lijmania? Elijophilia? I hope they never discover the cure!

honey!

Skatergirl!!!

You are not alone with this!! :lol:
You shoulde here my husband!!
Every time i put an Elijah movie in the dvd or vcr he just
goes out from the room and swears!!

But maybe my "obsession" goes a little longer then yours!!
I will not go into that now you have all heard it before!!! :( ;)

Honeyelf!! I`m with you on that, i hope they never find a cure!!
I don`t want to be cured!!!!

Love/wood

Skater girl,
You're right, not everybody in The Netherlands can speak English and that's certainly the case in Belgium. The second language in Flanders is French. If you go to Brussels, French is the best language to use.


LiveJournal user Kindling posted this in the Woodlust community. I hesitated about posting this in the Hugs Haven but it's about a scene in The Ice Storm so I think it can fit here as well.


Movieline Magazine
November 1999
Interview with Christina Ricci

Stephen Rebello: Ever had a really good screen kiss ?
Christina Ricci: Jared Leto [in High Kings] was probably the very best. Elijah wasn't bad [in The Ice Storm], except Ang didn't like the way we were kissing during the first take and he came over to Elijah and said, "Less biting action." I was, like, "You cannot say that to a teenage boy!" It was so funny."
:lol:

And this is what Elijah Wood said about the kissing scene.
Rolling Stone Magazine
March 2002

Wood had two uncomfortable scenes to film for The Ice Storm, Ang Lee's 1997 film about wife-swapping in Seventies suburbia. Because the second of these, in which he fumbles sexually with Christina Ricci, who is wearing a Nixon mask, was filmed on an interior set, his mother wasn't directly standing there, watching. During the first, in which he and Ricci kiss experimentally at the deep end of a dry swimming pool, his mom was right there. "That was awkward," he reflects. "At the time I wasn't exactly comfortable with any kind of sexuality around my mom. It wasn't just a kissing scene, it was highly clinical. You know, tongues and mouths."
http://www.americanphoto.co.jp/photosearch/Previews/CIN90274_011.jpg

Kindling, if you happen to read this thread: thanks for posting this.


Also, the ROTK EE Easter Egg is revealed:
I'm going to post what it is now. Ignore it if you want to be surprised.
Easter Egg spoiler
*
*
*
*
*
The Easter Egg this time is a remote interview with Elijah Wood, which has been conducted from the world premiere of RotK in Berlin. Elijah was absent, but reporters had a possibility to ask him questions overa phone line. He would then answer them into a video camera installedin his New York hotel.

As Wood could not see the interviewer, Dominic Monaghan pulled a prank on hin. He assumed a strong German accent and started impersonating aGerman reporter, asking most outrageous questions. The whole piece of interview is 8 minutes 34 seconds long.
*
*
*
*
End Easter Egg spoiler
Also, this time the easter egg has passed British censorship (both MTV MovieAward's easter eggs of previous LotR releases have been dropped in the UK release, because of "adult" dialogues).

From: here (http://www.theonering.net/perl/newsview/2/1097522738)

Moondancer, I'm so glad someone has translated that Reflex article - I'd meant to do it ages ago but couldn't find the time in the end. (Bernard Hill was of course also at the Karlovy Vary Film Festival, which is why he's quoted there. He said a lot of other interesting things - e.g. that he was originally asked to play Gandalf but didn't fancy spending all that time in NZ - Theoden was a softer/shorter option, it seems! But he and Elijah greeted each other like long-lost brothers. Aaaaah!)

So, Skater Girl, you really are a :cool: professional skater? Wow! is all I can say. The one and only time I ventured onto - ahem, near! - the ice (at the Nottingham Ice Rink, where Torville and Dean - remember them? - trained) at the age of 14 I couldn't even stand upright on the skates on dry land, let alone on the ice! Of course the old hired boots didn't help - they were so soft that my ankles turned over all the time. I spent the whole session clinging desperately to the railings while my feet slid all over the place. Ah, the pleasures of youth!
But (to bring this back OT) Elijah can skate, as we saw at the end of his Saturday Night Live show (did you see that, SG?).

MD, as I'm a professional translator I've no excuses for not knowing a few languages. The people I admire are those who do other things and know foreign languages into the bargain. Yourself and Skater Girl and Whiteling and Maeglian and Wood, for instance!

Hilarious quote from Christina Ricci about Elijah's kissing technique, BTW. I'd always wondered how those two got on. Or get on now, for that matter, both having become established stars and all that.

EDIT: forgot to say I was sitting in the movie theatre waiting for the Modigliani film to start (starring the rather luscious Andy Garcia and Elsa Zylberstein, who looks amazingly like the lady (Jeanne) in all those Modigliani paintings) when the trailer for ESOTSM, which I'd never seen, suddenly appeared - the first time since about 1994 I'd seen EW's face on the screen in that theatre! (The last time it was probably either Forever Young or North!) Patrick is on screen for about a second - just enough for the lenses to fall out of his shades, or whatever they did, but with ELIJAH WOOD in big letters (box-office draw, you know). Must see that movie again where I can concentrate on it instead of looking for the back of the lad's head in the front row!
And by sheer coincidence Picasso (played by someone who looks nothing like the younger Picasso - far too podgy) features prominently in the Modi film. Which brings us back to Picasso at the Lapin Agile. Will someone please ask Lij if that is going to happen .....?

Thank you Moondancer for that cute snippet!!!

Poor Elijah, who wants too kiss when mother are looking?
and then betolde that you doing wrong!!?? :( :(

I know i shoulde post this in hugs-haven but your post are
here so!!
I bet he has become a very good kisser under the years
i mean he has grown up now,and with that mouth and lips
he must be a good kisser!! :p :D
Sorry i will behave now!! No more talk like that in here!! ;)

I couldent resist to read about the esteregg!!!
Thank you for the news!!
You are always so good to finding news,Moondancer
have no idear how you do it!! :k

Love/Wood

honeyelf wrote:

Lijmania? Elijophilia? I hope they never discover the cure!

It’s like the joke about why there’s no such organization as Chocoholics Anonymous: nobody wants to quit! Ditto for Elijoholics Anonymous (though I like your suggestion of “Elijophilia” better -- sounds more intellectual). Anyway, there are many worse vices than this one. (And I don’t think Clementine is an alcoholic, either.)

Moondancer: The RotK Easter Egg sounds as if it’s going to be great fun. Now. . . how does one find an Easter Egg on a DVD? I assume you can do it only if you’re playing the DVD on a computer? In which case, I’m out of luck. :(

Off topic to Sharpe’s Girl: Yes, “Pretty Lady” is incongruous. I saw Pacific Overtures here in Philadelphia last year (? or earlier this year?), and that song was one of the most chilling things I’ve seen on stage. And, for incongruity, how about “Pretty Women” in Sweeney Todd (probably my favorite Sondheim play)? He’s just brilliant. Who else would have the audacity to come up with a rhyme like "If the tea the Shogun drank will/Help to keep the Shogun tranquil"?

I saw Eternal sunshine the other day and i must say
that i liked it very much.
A sad story realy,and i felt sorry for Clementine and i think she just wanted
to be seen and heard!!

And for the caracter of Elijah i don`t now what to say and feel.
He was great.But i diden`t liked his caracter, in one way i felt sorry for him
and in another he was a creep,i mean i felt sorry for him in away i can`t explain he is almost pathetic and creepy,steling clementains underwear´?? :eek:

Well anyway i liked the movie and i think it was Jim`s best roll i have seen
him in!!

And for the the estereggs on dvd: i think there use to bee some kind of
symbol that showes were it is i will check on fellowshipdvd and you shoulde be aibel to look on the dvd i will check out that to and be back too you
Pelagia!!

wood

EDIT:Pelagia: I found the esteregg at both fellowship and two towers!!
at the end were you select scens beside were it stands new scen
its a golden ring spinning! it shoulde be the same at return of the king and
you shoulde be aibel to watch it on regular dvd-player if it workes on a computer i don´`t know but it shoulde!!

WOOD

EDIT: I found this little thing!!

Yam - Award for Elijah
Yam reader Peggy met the star in LA.
In Yam No. 4/2004 we asked: "Who is the superstar 2003?" The winner was Elijah Wood right before Orlando Bloom

I´`m not surprised at all that he won over Orlando!! :lol:

Moondancer, what's an Easter Egg, please? Is it one of those hidden things on a DVD? I ask along with Pelagia, how might one see that? I have very much looked forward to hearing/seeing the described interview. Thanks for the info. very much.

OT to Pelagia, I love the two shows and songs of Sondheim's you mentioned, especially Sweeny Todd and Sweeny's "Pretty Women."

~ Mechtild

Yeas, mechtild it is what they call a hidden
secret!!!
and it seams like we all posted at the same time!! :lol:
sorry moondancer if i was up before you to day !!

love/wood

Wood is right about the easter egg.

Pelagia, Mechtild,
Did you find them on FOTR and TT?

It's a hidden surprise and you can only find them on the extended editions. For example, for the Two Towers EE DVD, it was a little thing they put together for the MTV awards when Gollum won an award. Andy Serkis starts to do a normal acceptance speech but he is interrupted by Gollum who has a bit of a tantrum. It's fun!
For The Fellowship of The Ring, the easter egg was an alternative version of The Council of Elrond, also for MTV.

You can watch it on a computer or on a regular DVD player.
The easter egg can be found on the first DVD (the first disc of the 4 DVD's) in the "select a scene" section of the menu. You need to go to the last scenes in that little menu before you can reach the 'new scene' bit and when you click on that (or go to it with the arrows on your remote control): like wood says,a golden ring appears, you click on it and violà.


. I spent the whole session clinging desperately to the railings while my feet slid all over the place.
Yep, I'm one of those desperate fence huggers too. :D

I wish Viggo would publish a book of all the pix he took during the shoot. Remember how, on the DVD, Liv Tyler talks about how he covered the walls and ceiling of his trailer with them? Surely there would be enough for a book.

Now that is a terrific idea, Pelagia! It would be the most successful project he's ever done (besides LOTR itself, of course).

I really think that, as he matures and becomes a bit more introspective about his life and psyche, he might eventually put out a fascinating memoir in about 30 years or so. IMO, anyone who publishes a memoir before the age of 50 had better have something remarkable to share with the public, or tell his/her story in a singular way.

But....I'll be 80 in 30 years! :eek: :eek: :eek: If ever there was someone who qualifies as having something remarkable to share, it's Elijah. So, maybe in 15-20 years? :z: :D

These two projects, plus the release of all 800+ hours of behind-the-scenes footage, AND all of the film footage not included in the films, might just keep me happy for a while. ;)

The way I look at it, everyone's got issues. Some are just more forthcoming with them than others! Sean has a tendency to be an Agony Aunt over his, obsessing over every imperfection and perceived slight from others (perhaps as a result of his family history).

Of course it's because of his family history. I've already given my opinion, based on public comments from SA, Patty Duke, and others. I guess I'd better read the book, huh? ;) He spent his childhood with a walking time bomb; it's not surprising that he obsesses. Sean had to do this to survive, emotionally if not physically; it's kind of hard to drop it later on. His redeeming quality seems to be that he tries desperately to learn from others - not necessarily what they say, but watching to see how *normal* people act, and how *normal* families function. He then tries to apply that knowledge and agonizes if he can't do it as well. The words from one of the Sibley books, I think - "...if this young prince of an actor had not taken me under his wing..." stick in my mind. Sean's flawed and he knows it. Doesn't keep him from trying, though, or from admiring (and loving) those with qualities that he'd love to have.

Elijah is equally open about some of his issues, but instead of agonizing over them, he's very breezy about them (his comment in the Four Hobbits interview in last fall's Premiere magazine about his concerns over his, er, nether regions; his father issues as mentioned in the Rolling Stone interview from January 2002). As a result, Sean can look broody and whiny, whereas Elijah retains his blithe man-about-town reputation.

But I'd be willing to bet that Elijah never had his mother storming down the hall to his room, snarling "You're so damned perfect, aren't you?", and smashing something that he'd just carefully built. Where Elijah's mom probably stood by and supported him especially when he was a little kid, Sean's mom was pulling him aside at the same age and laying him out verbally for making her look bad by not giving a top performance in a role.

I really think that, as he matures and becomes a bit more introspective about his life and psyche, he might eventually put out a fascinating memoir in about 30 years or so. 30 years?!? Arrrrgh! ::: ahem ::: Somehow, I doubt it. Writing a book is a lot of work and he's already got a career. ;) I can't see him doing it. I get the (totally speculative and unfounded) impression that The One Lad's life is a succession of moments of "now". He's very lucky if he has the ability to consider the past as, well, past, and the future as an exciting adventure.

...and this is all pure speculation based on public comments and interviews. I still think that it's precisely those imperfections and qualities that made Sean a unique and unforgettable Samwise.

~grumpy

...and this is all pure speculation based on public comments and interviews. I still think that it's precisely those imperfections and qualities that made Sean a unique and unforgettable Samwise.

ZK, you may be on to something. Samwise Gamgee has his own "issues" if you will. He has the class system he's born into, the reinforcement from his father that Gamgee's are meant for raising potatoes and cabbages, plus his own nagging doubts -calling himself 'dunderhead,' etc. repeatedly.

And then we have Sean, who seems to doubt himself so much, and know his own flaws so painfully, even while aspiring to be a great "Artist-Industrialist."

Sean and Sam are like opposite sides of the same coin in a way! The outcome of both sets of character traits are that both Sam and Sean are driven to accomplish. Whether the goal is to direct movies, or get Frodo to Mordor and back again, neither will rest until his task is completed.

Samwise was capable of more than he was aware of, and became Mayor of the Shire when all was said and done. Sean seems to think he's capable of Great Things, and just hasn't been given a proper chance yet. Only time will tell which is greater; his capability or ego.

honey!

PS Faculty Ladies, I'm still coming to New York the end of the month. I'd be happy to meet up with any of you. Flourish and I have a fun day of museum hopping, and lunching planned. Just PM me!

That’s exactly the way I feel. But as you also implied, that’s probably a lot easier for “Tolkien virgins” (like me) than for people who have known and loved the book for years. As for significant differences between the films and the book, the hardest one for me to take is probably what Tom Shippey calls the “Aragorn Intermezzo,” in TTT...

---I suppose the following is a RANT about RANTS--- :rolleyes:




I've known and loved the book for 35 years. It hasn't been easy, believe me!! + !! And, as was discussed a lot after FotR came out, the number of times someone had to see the movie before they could separate it in their mind from the book seemed to be directly proportional (well, more or less, you know... no statistical study here :rolleyes: ), to how familiar they were with the book.

But I've been working on it for over 5 years now, beginning with news that came out as the movies were being made, so that I wouldn't be totally shocked by some of the changes (there's a very good chance AATF would have sent me walking out of the theater if I hadn't known about it ahead of time). There are still discussions going on in the Trilogy forum about book-to-movies issues, and I drop in there when I feel the need to discuss a specific change (as well as some of the good things about the movies). It's helped a lot to not only put my own thoughts into words, but to read other people's ideas/interpretations about things, and I'd really suggest it for anyone who wants to discuss them. The "RIP Faramir, Frodo, Treebeard?" thread is still active (in the TTT subforum, because that's when it was started, but it pretty much involves discussion of the entire movie-verse now), and its basic purpose is to talk about negative changes, especially in the characters.

I assume the "Aragorn interlude" is everything from the Warg battle through Aragorn's arrival at Helm's Deep. My main trouble with it is that it took valuable time away from things that would have been more important to include. I'm sure I'll always think that (although Narya's thoughts about it in the Trilogy forum helped me understand the possible "why's" of it more than I could have by myself). I can't imagine that I'll ever be happy about AATF, or Frodo sending Sam away (maybe that should become FSSA? ;) ), but I try to look at them as much as possible from within the movies and what's being done there, instead of wishing for what was in the book.

Being an "experienced" Tolkien reader might actually help a bit there, because we're so used to finding our own multiple/possible interpretations and digging around in the details for clues, and the same skills come in handy for the movies (and, IMVVHO, that's not entirely accidental). When you use applicability to interpret something, you don't have to worry about whether the author/screenwriters/actors intended a particular interpretation--just about whether it makes sense to you.

But, I guess because it hasn't been easy to "make my peace" with the movies to the extent I have, to where I can actually enjoy them as a separate entity from the book, I really don't want to go back and discuss again all the book-to-movie changes that were discussed 5 years ago, or 3 years ago, or even 9 months ago--because it can so easily drag me back into concentrating on the negatives, and I just don't want to go there any more than necessary. It doesn't make me feel better about anything. So when I don't add any comments in this particular thread on a book-to-movie change that's being discussed, it's probably because I've already said all I have to say and heard all I want to hear----and it's very possible I've even skipped over most of the discussion, unless it's related to Elijah's acting/interpretation of his character.


End of RANT about RANTS :rolleyes:




BTW, I’d be interested in your comments on Frodo’s “transformation” in Bilbo’s room at Rivendell. What always struck me, apart from Frodo’s obvious shock when Bilbo freaks out, is the compassion in Frodo’s face when when you zoom in on him in the background during Bilbo’s “I’m sorry” speech.
Here y'go :) : Two Ring-bearers (http://www.frodolivesin.us/id174.htm)



EDIT: It occurs to me that there is some sort of rule that living people cannot appear on US currency. THAT's probably why they didn't put Elijah on the Iowa quarter. :haha:
...yes, also true of U.S. stamps. So let's hope it will be a long, long time ;) . But, y'know, Ohio somehow got away with Neil Armstrong, didn't they? Maybe because in the spacesuit he could be considered a "generic astronaut"? :haha:

Skater Girl, I agree: Elijah would have made a superb Spiderman (especially given his athleticism - the stunts would really have been worth watching. And his innocent demeanour would have fitted the character perfectly). Ah well .... as we know, he was deliberately avoiding blockbusters at that time, so he might not have accepted the role even if he'd been offered it.

Not that Tobey wasn't good, of course.

But Tobey as Frodo? :eek:

Hmm. Off to look for Easter eggs.

tgshaw: Thanks for the link to your “Two Ring-bearers” screencaps. Very enlightening! I’ve watched that scene in slow motion, but never studied the individual frames carefully. So I interpreted Frodo’s reluctance to let Bilbo see the Ring as just arising from a sense that Bilbo seemed a little too eager. Your interpretation makes more sense. Number 8 is especially telling, I think. Fascinating! So then, Frodo’s more sympathetic expression at the end of the scene could have its roots not just in his love for Bilbo, but also in his own growing understanding of what the Ring can do to those who carry it??

While I was on your web page, I also looked at your Weathertop sequence, and noticed the following comment:

An out-and-out scream--much more realistic than the way most movie "action heroes" react. The very first time I saw this, I felt more than thought, "That's what it would be like to get stabbed."
That was exactly the reaction I had, the first time I saw that scene! It still gives me the chills, every time I watch it.

I’m interested by the general opinion (with which I agree) that Elijah could have been an effective Spiderman, but that Tobey couldn’t have done Frodo. (I must confess here that I have not seen either Spiderman film, and am going on the basis of what I’ve read about them.) Elijah could practically do the innocent-geek-Peter-Parker part in his sleep; and he’s very flexible, physically, for the Spidey parts. As for Tobey, I agree with Skater girl that he lacks Elijah’s ethereal quality. Beyond that, I don’t think Tobey projects the strength of character that Elijah does, and I also can’t see him doing the “Ring-possessed” parts of Frodo very well (though maybe that’s just because of the roles that I’ve seen Tobey in). I just don’t think that Tobey has as great a range as Elijah, or as much charisma (overworked word, but still relevant here). Of course, I’m completely unbiased . . . . :)

Re living people on US currency and coins: I think the "generic astronaut" on the Ohio quarter would be John Glenn?? Unless Armstrong is also from Ohio.

tgshaw:So then, Frodo’s more sympathetic expression at the end of the scene could have its roots not just in his love for Bilbo, but also in his own growing understanding of what the Ring can do to those who carry it??
I think that's very likely. The movie carried Bilbo's, "...sorry about everything," phrase over from the book, and I've always felt there was probably something contained in that "everything" that only Frodo really understood. And in the movie, Frodo's already experienced his reaction when Gimli struck the Ring--quite a wake-up call about the bond between the Ring and its bearer.

I’m interested by the general opinion (with which I agree) that Elijah could have been an effective Spiderman, but that Tobey couldn’t have done Frodo. (I must confess here that I have not seen either Spiderman film, and am going on the basis of what I’ve read about them.) Elijah could practically do the innocent-geek-Peter-Parker part in his sleep; and he’s very flexible, physically, for the Spidey parts.
While I agree Elijah could have played Spidey, I'm glad he didn't--because of shooting schedules, if nothing else. Tobey said he had to "bulk-up" a lot muscle-wise for the role, and I'd just as soon not have a bulked-up Frodo in the pick-ups and added scenes :p . And, maybe because Peter Parker (whom I love dearly, especially when drawn by Stan Lee :) ) is the consummate geek, I'm kind of glad the part went to someone else. Before Peter gets spider-bit, he's really quite similar to Casey--intelligent, science-oriented, even a photojournalist! (Going from the book version; I haven't seen the movies either, although I intended to even see them in the theater :rolleyes: .)

Besides, I'm not sure I could cope with Elijah playing two of my favorite literary characters ;) ! It would just be too overwhelming :p .

Re living people on US currency and coins: I think the "generic astronaut" on the Ohio quarter would be John Glenn?? Unless Armstrong is also from Ohio.
Yep, from Wapakoneta, to be exact. I guess the picture on the quarter just reminded me more of an Apollo astronaut standing on the moon than it did a Mercury astronaut getting ready to board his capsule. But maybe that's why they put him in the spacesuit--to keep their options open ;) . Glenn's still alive, too, unless I missed something...

Interesting that movies like, "Thumbsucker" and "Mort the Dead Teenager" didn't get made because Elijah wasn't in them! Wasn't anybody else qualified for these projects? :lol:

Another funny thought: Frodo socks Bilbo after he lunges for the Ring, in the jaw. Bilbo shakes his head after he's sprawled out on the floor. he gets up, and takes a boxer's stance, and says, "Let's see that again, tough guy!" It osunds like an entertaining Fanfic. Frodo is horrified because the Ring suddenly woke up his strength. :D

Interesting that movies like, "Thumbsucker" and "Mort the Dead Teenager" didn't get made because Elijah wasn't in them! Wasn't anybody else qualified for these projects? :lol:
Because of how my memory is (or isn't ;) ) these days, I'm working on this with two windows open: one here and one at IMDb:

Thumbsucker is listed as being in post-production at IMDb--it's been listed that way since September 2003, according to the update history. But that should mean filming's taken place, shouldn't it? The cast list is more detailed than I'd expect for a movie still in the planning stage: "curly-haired boy at race finish line," for example. But, then, if it did go into post-production in September 2003, this wouldn't be an unusual delay (yet).

Keanu Reeves is still on board as the orthodontist, Tilda Swinton and Vincent D'Onofrio as Justin's parents, and Benjamin Bratt as Max Schraam (does anyone who read the book recognize that character?).

The important news :p is that Justin is played by Lou Taylor Pucci. He's listed with only one credit for a movie that's been seen (Personal Velocity: Three Portraits in 2002), but he seems to have been busy over the last couple of years with two other films besides Thumbsucker in post-production, and one currently filming--this last one being the only movie besides Thumbsucker where he's listed as playing the lead. One of the movies listed as being in post-production, though, doesn't say who's playing the lead, just that the character is an "alienated teenager." That movie, BTW, has one of my all-time favorite titles: The Chumscrubber :D . No, I have no idea... someone who cleans salmon, maybe :confused: ? I will say that Mr. Pucci's been filming with some impressive casts.

Another relevant bit of information about him: He's four-and-a-half years younger than Elijah. So he would have been about 17-18 during filming, as opposed to Elijah's 22. Plenty of difference, IMHO, when talking about playing a teenager.

------But, no luck finding anything on Mort, the Dead Teenager. I don't know if that deserves a :( or a :) . :D

BTW, the info for Picasso at the Lapin Agile was updated last month. It's still listed as in pre-production, but now has a notation of "on hold." That's definitely a :( .

ETA: If you're in the mood for an "Awwww" moment :) , and the "Frodo costume" ad link is showing, follow it and "zoom image" to get a look at the little boy who's wearing it. What a cutey!! :)

If a girl was 5'2 stood in front of Elijah Wood, what would she see? :lol:

And what does it feel like to stand next to him for a picture at that height? :lol:

OK...the next bit is sheer speculation and rumor.

They're planning on filming the life of Ian Curtis, the singer of Joy Division.
Now, the producer of the film project says that they're in talks with "an actor who is huge and who looks rather a lot like Ian"

So, some people put two and two together and came up with Elijah Wood.

This is a picture of Ian Curtis:
Ian Curtis from Joy Division (http://joydivision.homestead.com/files/jd16okt1979IanCurtis.jpg)

Huge star' for Ian Curtis movie

(BBC) The producers of a film based on the story of Joy Division say a major star is considering playing the tragic role of lead singer Ian Curtis.
Curtis killed himself in 1980 just as the legendary and inspirational Manchester band were on the cusp of commercial success.

The as-yet untitled film is based on a book written by his widow, Deborah.

Producer Todd Eckart said: "We are speaking with an actor who is huge and who looks rather a lot like Ian."

He added: "He has just finished a couple of films in which the only thing he listened to was Joy Division and New Order [the band which the band mates formed after Curtis' death].

"Should this guy ultimately agree that he is going to play Ian, it would make it a much bigger film.

"Ian Curtis is one of the most important figures in the history of music."

Deborah Curtis's book, Touching From A Distance, paints a picture of her husband as a gifted but tortured man who was also prone to jealousy and manipulation.

He suffered from epilepsy, which caused problems when performing on stage with strobe lights, and hanged himself in 1980.

Former manager and friend, Factory Records boss Tony Wilson, said: "He was two people in that there was the very intense person.

"But also there was the character whose head poked out of a fourth storey window in London one night while the rest of his band were raining eggs and flower and water on me and my group.

"We were trying to get into a van door which they had jammed."

The producers of the film have said it will be a Manchester-based production.

The film will follow in the footsteps of 24 Hour Party People, which starred Steve Coogan as Tony Wilson and chronicled the history of Joy Division and Factory Records.
"huge star" for music icon film (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/3904983.stm)

As I said, it's probably just speculation and who knows, they might be talking about Tobey Maguire instead of Elijah Wood.
;)
ETA: another name in the speculation game: Jude Law
And of course, people want a brit actor to play Ian. One comment I saw: "keep the bloody Yanks away from Ian" :lol: but Elijah's name is mentionned and most fans see the possibilities of Elijah as Ian (as far as I can tell anyway)
Edit n°2: did some more digging and Jude Law is not involved and will not play Ian Curtis. So, the mystery remains: who's the "huge star"?


Talking about Tobey: I think he was an inspired choice for the role of spiderman. Too bad they couldn't do the same for batman and I hope they're going to choose the next superman wisely.
Tobey as Frodo?
:confused:
It's not that bad a choice but he lacks something to be a good Frodo IMO.
Elijah has this beauty inside and outside. It just shines through (and yes, I'm aware of the antics and the foul language,...but you know what I mean) and I don't know if Tobey has that same quality.
It's like Ian McKellen said:
"Elijah looks angelic but his beauty of spirit is what makes his Frodo leap out of the screen. Unalloyed goodness is one of the most difficult attributes to act."

tgshaw wrote::

And in the movie, Frodo's already experienced his reaction when Gimli struck the Ring--quite a wake-up call about the bond between the Ring and its bearer.
I’ve always thought that was a very powerful moment: the way Frodo flinches and then looks almost nauseated. And then, during the following dialogue (I think mainly when Boromir’s “One does not just walk into Mordor” speech), the way Frodo sort of peers out fearfully from under his hand as he realizes what could be in store for him. (Of course, MTV or SNL or whoever it was made hilarious use of his reactions in the “Easter Egg.”)

Re Elijah as Spiderman: I just don’t think I’d want him playing another character who carries across multiple movies, at this point in his career. I’d rather see him try the wider variety of things that he seems to be doing, even though those aren’t blockbuster material.

Moondancer: Interesting thought about Elijah in an Ian Curtis biopic – especially in light of that picture you linked! But is EJW a Joy Divison/New Order fan? And would he be considered “huge” apart from LotR? Maybe it's Ewan MacGregor?? BTW, how old was Curtis when he killed himself?

Pelagia,

Ian Curtis was 23, a couple of months away from his 24th birthday.
So, the age fits.

But, like I said, it's just speculation.
I agree, I don't know if Elijah Wood can be considered as a "huge actor" but that depends on your viewpoint and who you are comparing him with.
Compare him with Al Pacino and it would be a "no"
This is going to be an independent movie, filmed in Manchester so...Elijah Wood would raise the profile!

Ian Curtis did look like Elijah Wood, though.
Just look at this picture on the home page of this site:http://www.iancurtis.org/



Oh, and can I just add that I LOVE the way Sean Bean portrayed Boromir?

Moondancer, on EJW and Ian Curtis: There's certainly a similarity about the eyes. I didn't realize that Curtis was that young. But it just came to me: the "huge" young actor might be Orlando Bloom??? He could always go back to the blue contacts.

Hallo ladies!!! Thou i have now idear of this
Ian Curtis is,maybe if i hear him singing i
heard him before!!!!Pléase don`t throw
rottone tomatoes on me!!

But i have too say Elijah are very much like him!!!!!


Love/wood

[::
Interesting thought about Elijah in an Ian Curtis biopic! But is EJW a Joy Divison/New Order fan? Maybe it's Ewan MacGregor??

Ewan Mcgregor came instantly to my mind as well, before I read your comment. He has proved his singing ability, and the set of his jaw is similar to Ian's. Flick between his IMDB picture and the IanCurtis.org one and the similarity is noticeable. I have not seen Orlando Bloom do any accents far from his natural London accent, and I can't imagine him in the role at all. I've never heard Elijah mentioning these bands, but he always states he has a wide taste in music.

It would be nice if Elijah was in it, as I live real close to Manchester and might get to glimpse him from afar.

Hello, my dears -- long time, no talk to you!

I have been on vacation in the wilds of Colorado and New Mexico for 10 days and returned home on Saturday desperately missing our lad and all of you. I must say, you've all had some very interesting conversations in my absence!

Very interesting news/speculation on the Ian Curtis story. I saw the resemblance right away, particularly the eyes, and you all know that Elijah can do sad eyes devastatingly well. Last week, he was photographed at an LA salon having his hair dyed "dark-*ss brown" and he told the stylist to just shape it up, since he was growing it out. Coincidence? Perhaps. Or maybe not.

Apparently, he has also gone and bought a house in Venice (which is where Viggo lives, btw). So -- no more jokes about his mom making his bed on Leno!

Anyway, glad to be back among my wonderful Faculty colleagues.

(And honey and Flouish, I'm near Philly and might be able to meet you guys in my hometown of NYC -- would one of you PM me with the particulars?)

Hey, Achila

Good to see you back!
:)

Thanks, luv!

Hi there Achila!!!!

Glade you back with us!!!
Hope you hade a great vacation!!!!!

Love/wood

PMing you now Achila ;) . Will be glad to see you! And how in the world do you find this stuff out about EW?!

Oohh....Moondancer. Elijah does look like the pic of Ian Curtis you linked to. Wow. And as to huge star--I do believe in England Elijah might be perceived as big. Huh?? I mean he has won more polls there than here in the US, right? Didn't he win best actor for Fellowship in the Empire mag poll?? (kick me and my memory if I be wrong). And after filming the Yank/Hooligans over there--lots of press on that, right??? And he dj'ed on the radio over there, as well??? What do our British members think?? Well...here is for hoping...

*sigh* Hey, I need help again. All of this time here and I've never posted a link. I'm afraid I'll do it wrong and hotlink or something...so can someone tell me???

After TG mentioned that the ads on the page seem to reflect our conversation, I took note of one that I had been meaning to go check out--something along the lines of "was Frodo a mini Jesus?". I couldn't find that one again, but surfing around I found a site called "Hollywood Jesus." NOW this isn't a Christian site (I myself am not Christian or any other organized religion--but I am interested in the spiritual messages in stories). The site supposedly welcomes everyone --- aethiests, Hindus, Wiccans, Christians, Jews, Muslems...Pagans...anyone....to discussion about spiritual messages in movies. There are a lot of Lord of the Rings articles and I have just begun looking at them.
There is, for example, one 3 part article arguing that Tolkien based his stories on Norse mythology where hope is pretty futile, and that the heros go forth on courage without hope.

But to topic. There are two interviews with Elijah. (see--tell me how to link!) The second one you link to at the bottom of the first. Much of this we have heard before, because they are from the roundtable press interviews for Return of the King. But I think there is more here than I had seen before.

There is a lot I'd like to comment on---starting with more of Elijah addressing Frodo's sacrifice. I know there was a lot of talk after comcon (?) one year when Elijah talked about Frodo losing himself and Sam being the hero--and Sean said, no Frodo is the hero. Wasn't that in the summer of 2003? And after, as the release of RotK became near, Elijah seemed to have pulled together a better defense for his character being hero. (on Samwise the Brave feature on the theatrical release, Elijah does use the words, Frodo was the hero...). My guess is that Elijah had time to hear Frodo fans speak--and knew that though he might want to be modest, that maybe for Frodo, he shouldn't be modest. Speaking about Frodo's sacrifice is not a matter of an actor's modesty, but about the meaning of a very important character. Anyway, I think he speaks well about Frodo's courage and sacrifice.

compiled by Jeffery Overstreet:
Steven D. Greydanus:
You play a hero in this film who sacrifices all that he has in him but ultimately fails. He succumbs to the addiction of the Ring. And he is saved from the fate of Gollum and Isildur by chance or fate or providence or whatever you want to call it…

Wood:
It’s mercy. It’s in the book: It’s Frodo’s mercy for Gollum that destroys the ring. Had Frodo killed Gollum, he would have possibly gotten to Mount Doom and he would have kept the ring for himself and the world would have been doomed. he saw a kinship in Gollum and had an understanding and an empathy with Gollum that Gollum stayed alive and ultimately impeded upon Frodo’s own destruction, which destroys the ring.

SDJ:
There is also the theme running all the way to the first film where Gandalf says to Frodo, “There is another will at work… in the finding of the Ring, that it came to your uncle that you were meant to have it … and that is an encouraging thought.” Given the way that the ring was represented almost as an addiction, and that is certainly how Andy Serkis played him… as an addict… I wonder if you have any thoughts about the Ring as a metaphor for addiction, particularly in regards to the common idea among addicts of a need to acknowledge a higher power to overcome the addiction. Is faith in a higher power necessary for overcoming addiction?

Wood:
......I certainly give credence to that in life. I’m not sure it pertains to Frodo’s particular journey. The way that Frodo gets through is ultimately in his will and his courage and his own inner strength and belief that gets him through. It’s also Sam as well, belief in Sam, his love of Sam. It’s the love in his heart and the good in his heart that holds the evil at bay for as long as it does. (emphasis mine). I don’t think there is anything else that he looks to to free him of this addiction.

Jeremy Landes:
What about calling on the name of Elbereth?

Wood:
Well, yeah… calling on the light of Earendil. But I don’t know that there is any higher power that he believes in to help him get through. I think it really is about, if anything, Sam.

Press:
Frodo is unable to go back to the Shire. But Sam carried [the ring] for a while and he was able to go back and live his life…

Wood:
Sam did for a brief moment carry the Ring, but he didn’t [I]carry the Ring. It is that experience of having been burdened by that evil for that period of time that has permanently etched away at Frodo’s soul. That is something that he can never get back. There is something sacrificed in the destruction of that ring, a piece of Frodo. It is almost like a loss of innocence. He’s gone back home war-torn, like someone who has seen the atrocities of war and then come home and their home doesn’t look the same to them anymore and they can’t find the same pleasures that they used to because they’ve experienced something so horrid. Although Sam was there with Frodo and certainly experienced his fair share of the atrocities of the journey, he doesn’t know that, what that Ring did to Frodo. He never experienced the true weight and the profundity of that.

Press:
I noticed the marks on your neck as you got closer to Mount Doom, almost like a stigmata…

Wood:
It’s because the Ring gets heavier, and keeps getting heavier and starts to tear at Frodo’s neck. With Sam being able to go home at the end, he never lost a bit of his soul. He never lost what makes him Sam. He never lost his purity. Frodo did.



There is more I'll comment on later. But in the same bunch of interviews there is also one for Sean's roundtable--and in light of Sean's book, it grates at me. He was rather puzzled as to why the film didn't make more of Sam being the hero. He said maybe it was something about Elijah's face....

Sean A:

...I don’t know. I mean, I really don’t know. Maybe it has something to with Elijah being sort of the actor whose face is... You know, he’s the Ringbearer and somehow maybe they felt that it wouldn’t be emotionally satisfying for the audience to have been with this protagonist for so long, and then have him sort of abdicate his role at the center.

:rolleyes:

Pardon me if this all has been posted before. I know some of it has, but I don't remember all of it. Again, there is more that I'll get to later.


Elijah also speaks of the grey Havens scene.

A link is very easy to do, Alyon.
When you are replying in a thread and you want to add a link, you just click on the little globe http://www.khazaddum.com/forums/images/editor/createlink.gif and follow the instructions you'll see in the little window that appears:type in the text that is going to appear underlined and in blue - click OK -paste in the address of the site you want to link to - click OK and voilà.

You just have to check the site first to see if it's a safe link (taking into consideration that this is a PG site).


I googled the name 'Greydanus' and this was the result:
Jeffrey Overstreet's interview (http://promontoryartists.org/lookingcloser/movie%20reviews/Q-Z/returnoftheking-elijahwood.htm)
That's it, right?


Jeremy Landes:
What were you thinking about with that last smile?

Wood:You know what they cut out though? It’s not there… [he then grins and gives us all two thumbs’ up.] They cut out the thumbs!

[This gets laughter for a long time.]

[getting serious] That smile had to encompass a lot. It’s essentially supposed to be peace. Frodo finally has [found] the Frodo we remember from the Shire, shed of that loss of innocence that he had. The innocence has returned. It’s all of those things. That’s all I was thinking of, trying to be as pure and peaceful as possible.
:)

Thank you Moondancer for that little snippet!!!!!

And he sure suceded looking very pure and innocent
diden`t he!!!!
Just like an angel!!!!

Love/wood

Thanks for the instruction, Moondancer. I'll have to challenge myself, computer-wise, more often.

The reason I brought all of that up again (Elijah discussing Frodo's sacrifice) is that I am really wondering what the commentary on the rotk EE is going to be like--what with how we know something of what Sean thinks because of his book and all. We also know that Sean dominates the talk when he and Elijah are doing commentary together. In this interview Elijah spoke pretty resolutely about Frodo's burden and the inner strength he had . Is he going to elbow in and get a chance to express that for all of us Frodo-lovers?? Or will Sean be doing all of the talking? Sean does so much admire Elijah and so will likely compliment his acting. But we also know that Sean wanted Sam to come off as more of the hero, and worries alot about how his own acting is regarded. Will he talk about that-- A LOT?? I hope Elijah speaks up--if not about himself, then about what is going on with Frodo. I so much want to hear what Elijah has to say...

Peter jackson wasn't as articulate in talking about it (the destruction of the Ring) as was Elijah (in the Peter Jackson interview on that site)--though he also, when prompted talked about the Pity of Bilbo and Frodo. But he did make me want to cry again talking about how he meant Frodo was dying when he sailed away!!

Nice thing, Elijah says:
I think that everyone -- no matter how intelligent, how tall, short, it doesn’t matter who you are -- everyone has the ability to affect the world around them. And it doesn’t necessarily mean in a grand way like destroying the Great Ring and saving the world. It’s as simple as, you know, affecting the person next to you, and that person affecting the person next to them and so forth.

And again re-reading why he likes Johnny Depp as a role model. Bears repeating:
It’s never been about celebrity or fame. ........ He tends to only work on projects that he’s really passionate about, which has always been my philosophy. He’s done that really well. It doesn’t matter how big or small the project is. It’s always just about the role and the quality of the project. He leads a very good example in Hollywood today for the right way to go about one’s career. There are a few actors that I think embody the same [thing], that never really let me down … I think they always choose things that they really believe in and only do it for the work and have their private lives. He’s also brilliantly mixed his own life privately with the work that he does.

And Elijah is a great inspiration for that, too. I know it's competitive out there, but I think when he's not working, he's likely choosing not to work. I imagine he has had options he has turned down. I just love that he isn't out there with celebrity being the goal. I say Elijah is a tremendously positive role model for young actors....showing that you don't HAVE to go for all of the trappings of fame--which might seem attractive from afar, but if you think of it, can also sound pretty unattractive (who wants to have their picture taken where ever they go? and who wants to be a designer showcase of conspicuous consumption?)

sorry--I'm supposed to be working and I'm off on a tangent. Going over old ground again.

I am anxious to see Elijah in The Yank and in Sin City. I was out with some younger folk last week and one young man started talking about Elijah in Eternal Sunshine. "Man, that was amazing!! Whoa...wasn't even close to being Frodo. Blew me away!!"

Yeah :)

After TG mentioned that the ads on the page seem to reflect our conversation...
When I came back and refreshed the page just now, we had one for Ian Caldwell's books at Yahoo -- It saw "Ian C" several times, I suppose. :p

I took note of one that I had been meaning to go check out--something along the lines of "was Frodo a mini Jesus?".
I've actually written a response to the "mini-Jesus/Passion of the Frodo" person, but haven't sent it. You're not missing a lot--basically the link is to the last section of what's supposed to become a 400-page :eek: book on how bad PJ's movies are :rolleyes: . He asked for feedback, and he needs quite a bit of help getting his facts straight (both regarding the book and the movies).

I couldn't find that one again, but surfing around I found a site called "Hollywood Jesus." NOW this isn't a Christian site (I myself am not Christian or any other organized religion--but I am interested in the spiritual messages in stories). The site supposedly welcomes everyone --- aethiests, Hindus, Wiccans, Christians, Jews, Muslems...Pagans...anyone....to discussion about spiritual messages in movies. There are a lot of Lord of the Rings articles and I have just begun looking at them.
There is, for example, one 3 part article arguing that Tolkien based his stories on Norse mythology where hope is pretty futile, and that the heros go forth on courage without hope.
Ah, I know of what you speak ;) , although I've never visited the site. One of the books I've reviewed, Tolkien in Perspective (http://www.frodolivesin.us/id266.htm), was written by the guy who runs that site. He's definitely Christian of the Evangelical variety, and IMHO doesn't quite "get" Tolkien, partly because he doesn't "get" the differences between his own faith and Tolkien's Catholicism, including the difference between literal interpretation and the use of Story. That whole Norse "long defeat" thing is the center of part of his misunderstanding, at least as I see it (although it's also the subject of discussion among Tolkien scholars in general at the moment--what proportion of of JRRT's "stuff" is Norse, Anglo-Saxon, etc., etc.) It's the most negative book review I've written to date.

But to topic. There are two interviews with Elijah. (see--tell me how to link!) The second one you link to at the bottom of the first. Much of this we have heard before, because they are from the roundtable press interviews for Return of the King. But I think there is more here than I had seen before.
I'd seen much of it before, but I'd be interested to hear if Elijah would say anything different about Frodo depending on a "higher power," now that he's finished reading the book. I don't know if he really didn't know who Elbereth is, or if he purposely switched the name in his response. Everything he says in this interview, IMHO, goes right along with the "movie line" on the subject, while the interviewer was coming from the book's point-of-view, so the questions and the answers don't quite seem to mesh.

:) Hi, Achila! :)

Is he going to elbow in and get a chance to express that for all of us Frodo-lovers?? Or will Sean be doing all of the talking? Sean does so much admire Elijah and so will likely compliment his acting. But we also know that Sean wanted Sam to come off as more of the hero, and worries alot about how his own acting is regarded. Will he talk about that-- A LOT?? I hope Elijah speaks up--if not about himself, then about what is going on with Frodo. I so much want to hear what Elijah has to say...


I have every confidence that Elijah will get his point across. He does OK on the T2T commentary and he's more than well aware of Sean's attempts to dominate conversations (that he loves him anyway for all his warts is totally endearing). He and Andy Serkis have to struggle a bit, but they manage to get in their ideas.

Hi TG!

Ian Curtis did look like Elijah Wood, though.
Just look at this picture on the home page of this site:http://www.iancurtis.org/

Holy cow! For a heart-stopping moment I thought that (faded gray) picture *was* The One Lad! Jeepers!

"huge" actor also depends where in the world you are. IIRC, not long ago in the same city of Manchester, Elijah created quite a stir when he showed up at a game. :) It sounds like it would be a great role - another tormented character who dies at the end.

Oh, and can I just add that I LOVE the way Sean Bean portrayed Boromir?
Did you love the interplay between Frodo and Boramir as much as I did? It made the betrayal so much more devastating. Does anyone else think that Frodo looked like a disgusted teenager when he walked away from Borimar?

I also saw a preview for a movie called - um - treasure something - with Nicholas Cage, and I'm pretty sure I saw Sean Bean in it. Or was that another movie?


clipping from that clip of the interview:
[getting serious] That smile had to encompass a lot. It’s essentially supposed to be peace. Frodo finally has [found] the Frodo we remember from the Shire, shed of that loss of innocence that he had. The innocence has returned. It’s all of those things. That’s all I was thinking of, trying to be as pure and peaceful as possible. Sounds like he's done some thinking about it. :) I know that a person on the spot, like in an interview, can stumble over words sometimes and things probably don't come out quite the way he wants, but I think it's an interesting statement: "shed of that loss of innocence". It's he sees Frodo's loss of innocence as not something taken, or an emptiness, but as a burden added - odd that the loss of something could be a weight on him. He's finally released from that. Though I didn't get that impression in the book. They just got in the boat and sailed away. :::: sniffle ::::

~grumpy (d'ya think Elijah will shed the "One Lad" moniker by the time he's about 40? ;) )

TGshaw:
Ah, I know of what you speak , although I've never visited the site. One of the books I've reviewed, Tolkien in Perspective, was written by the guy who runs that site. He's definitely Christian of the Evangelical variety

Oh, well--I didn't look around enough to get that. In the beginning it welcomes gays and freaks and geeks and atheists and hindus etc etc--it didn't look evangelical...but I didn't look past the Elijah, Sean and PJ interviews....I was hoping it would be diverse in perspective....

Thanks for the clue in

And I hope I didn't sound anti-Sean, Achila. I love Sam and Sean. And Elijah and Sean both obviously love and respect each other. I should probably say that I am just always hoping for more verbage from Elijah during commentary. He is awfully polite, and does give way when interrupted.. ;)

And I hope I didn't sound anti-Sean, Achila. I love Sam and Sean. And Elijah and Sean both obviously love and respect each other. I should probably say that I am just always hoping for more verbage from Elijah during commentary. He is awfully polite, and does give way when interrupted.. ;)

No, not at all, luv.

BTW, here's a photo of Elijah taken at a wedding he attended this past Saturday. Notice the haircut. Hmm....


Should've been more explicit. Go back and look at the pics of Ian Curtis we were talking about a few days ago.


Edit 10/20/04 -- once again, sorry but this one is off limits too -- the owner of the album has asked us not to repost these anywhere and I have to respect that. I'm happy to email it if you'd like to see it -- PM me.

Alyon and Moondancer, thanks for posting the interview excerpts. I had never seen those before. I was especially interested to see that Elijah cited Johnny Depp as a role model, because I’ve thought that EJW’s career might do well to follow a similar pattern. Of course, Elijah had his first big box office success at a much younger age; but the general principle – concentrate on “the role and the quality of the project” – is the same.

zkgrumpy: I think the movie for which you saw the trailer is called National Treasure, and it does indeed feature Sean Bean (who was also, IMHO, the best thing about Troy – and with a much better hairdo than in LotR).

Hi, Achila! Welcome back. You wrote:

you all know that Elijah can do sad eyes devastatingly wellAs I’ve worked my way through his movies, I’ve often thought that if there were an Oscar for Best Wounded and/or Vulnerable Performance, Elijah would obliterate all competition. As for the photo you posted of him at the wedding reception – we’re back to bangs, apparently. Still looks like his EII color.

Just when I thought I would have to go back to homework, at my age too, I lurked back here one more time and, oh my gosh :) !

Achila, what gorgeous photos. I must say, Zack is not bad either and a little closer to my age... *No swooning you say*

Back to the grindstone... :(

Somehow Zack looks like his dad, Elijah looks likes his mom, and hannah looks like a blend of both. :p


Since Elijah's dad looks 40 years old at age 50, chances are Elijah will still be the "One Lad" at age 40, since his dad's family probably ages slower. :D


Ian kind of looks like the English actor in the Brit tv show, "My Hero." or rather the guy in the other Brit Com, "Porridge" about a guy in a penetentary.

Both are huge dark headed dudes.

And what about Eddie Izzard as a dark headed guy? Wasn't Ian often heavily made up in his shows?

Did you love the interplay between Frodo and Boramir as much as I did? It made the betrayal so much more devastating. Does anyone else think that Frodo looked like a disgusted teenager when he walked away from Borimar?
I love just about every single scene with Boromir but the interplay between Frodo, Boromir but also with Aragorn is fascinating.

You know that scene in FOTR in the snow? Frodo has the Ring on his chain but he loses IT at one point - Boromir sees the Ring in the snow first, he had this enchanted look on his face and wants to touch it until Aragorn shouts "Boromir" at him - that whole scene with those three actors is magic: the concerned look on Frodo's face, the tension between Aragorn and Boromir with Aragorn ready to come into action if it would be necessary but protecting Frodo at the same time, Boromir coming up to Frodo and that whole "little one' bit,...
Everything.
*sigh*
I just love it.

Then there's the confrontation between Frodo and Boromir. Who could not love that (although the fight with Frodo becoming invisible and kicking Boromir is also quite funny IMO).
:)

And of course the death scene.
:(
So brilliantly done from Viggo and Sean.

Sean Bean really was such a fantastic Boromir!
Pelagia, I agree about Sean Bean in Troy, although Peter O'Tool and Eric Bana weren't bad either but that entire movie was a bit of a disappointment to me.



Achila, that hair style of Elijah is quite something. Thanks for that picture and I can go back to another speculating game now: is this hair style is own choice or is he preparing for a role or is it just for an audition for a role or...?

While we’re discussing Sean Bean, I also like his scene with Aragorn in Lothlorien, where we first see a “softer” side of Boromir. And I love the way he comes leaping through the woods to defend Merry and Pippin. Also his scene with Faramir in TTT (and they do look as if they could be brothers, don’t they?).

(Sort of off-topic) Moondancer: How could I have forgotten Peter O’Toole (one of my favorite actors of all time) in Troy? He was splendid. And Eric Bana was pretty good, too. But you’re right: overall, the movie was disappointing. All through the big battle scenes (which I found very tedious), I kept thinking, “Peter Jackson would have done this MUCH better.” PJ never lets you lose sight of the individuals in his battles.

Oh, well--I didn't look around enough to get that. In the beginning it welcomes gays and freaks and geeks and atheists and hindus etc etc--it didn't look evangelical...but I didn't look past the Elijah, Sean and PJ interviews....I was hoping it would be diverse in perspective....

As I said, I haven't looked at his site--just read his book. Some who've given his book positive reviews at Amazon say he's very willing to hear other views, so it's possible he doesn't limit things posted on his site. Even in his book, I didn't get the impression that he was trying to "convert" anyone who had a different outlook, or that he was negative toward them--just that he hadn't educated himself enough about other points-of-view to be writing about them in a published book, as opposed to in message board posts (IMHO). Unlike a lot (not all!!) of Evangelicals, he wasn't anti-Catholic, and even tried to relate some of Tolkien's writing to the differences between his faith and Tolkien's, but his research into Catholicism consisted of two email exchanges with one person, and that just isn't enough when trying to explain the beliefs of someone as complex as Tolkien.

So, in this case at least, saying that the person is Evangelical Christian isn't necessarily the same thing as saying that his site is Evangelical Christian. (Guess I should go visit it before I say more :rolleyes: .)

--------------

...It's he sees Frodo's loss of innocence as not something taken, or an emptiness, but as a burden added - odd that the loss of something could be a weight on him. He's finally released from that.
Oh, thanks for putting it in those words--I can see now how those statements could be read that way, but I hadn't gotten it :rolleyes: . It sounded to me as if he was saying Frodo reverts to who he was before the quest, which I don't think is true at all. (I'm still not sure exactly what he is trying to say--as you said, sometimes that's difficult in an interview--but your interpretation certainly puts it in a different light for me.)

Though I didn't get that impression in the book. They just got in the boat and sailed away. :::: sniffle ::::
IMHO, Tolkien leaves us with the hope for Frodo's healing at the end of the book, while the movie actually shows us the healing process. What Frodo experiences in the movie on his way to the boat and as he's boarding, is what I would expect book-Frodo to experience more gradually after he sails West. Wonder if that's related to the statements from the scriptwriters that Frodo's sailing is equivalent to his death? Tolkien doesn't see it as the "end of the story" for Frodo, but perhaps they do??


I was especially interested to see that Elijah cited Johnny Depp as a role model, because I’ve thought that EJW’s career might do well to follow a similar pattern. Of course, Elijah had his first big box office success at a much younger age; but the general principle – concentrate on “the role and the quality of the project” – is the same.
Thanks for making the connection between Elijah and Johnny, Pelagia, as I was really hoping there'd be an on-topic "opening" to let me post this ;) :
Johnny Depp Says He's No Heartthrob
October 18, 2004 06:54 AM EDT

LONDON - Johnny Depp reckons he's no great movie pinup - he just has a "weird job."

Arriving for the premiere of his latest movie, "Finding Neverland," at London's Leicester Square, Depp played down his movie star image as fans lining the red carpet screamed his name.

"I wouldn't say I'm a heart throb," he said, as his wife, French singer and actress Vanessa Paradis, looked on. "I just have a very weird job."

Depp has been touted to win his first Oscar for his role as "Peter Pan" creator J.M. Barrie, but 41-year-old actor dismissed such talk.

"I can't say that occupies my every thought or every moment," he said. "That's not my job to think about that, but if people want to say that, that is really sweet."

Co-star Kate Winslet, who plays the mother of the four young brothers who inspired Barrie to write "Peter Pan," also gave a knock to Depp's reputation as a movie hunk.

"Everybody asks me this, whether I'm slightly annoyed that I didn't get to kiss Johnny Depp," said Winslet, 29. "We would have laughed."
I hope those two get to work together before long (Elijah and Johnny, that is). Now they have another one-degree-of-separation connection, through Kate Winslet, and they both seem to look for similar things in the movies they choose, so maybe...?

-------ETA

...And I love the way he comes leaping through the woods to defend Merry and Pippin...
I love the way his relationship with Merry and Pippin is shown during FotR, so that when he does come to their rescue (and they have to watch what happens to him :( ), the audience feels an emotional connection between them, brought out beautifully again when Pippin offers his service to Denethor in RotK. -- And contrasted so well with Frodo's "I was his friend... for my part," in TTT (I'm so glad they kept that line--it says it all about that last encounter, which we know Frodo is thinking of when he says it in the book.) IMHO, Boromir never understood Frodo--certainly not in the book, and I don't think even in the movies. When he talks to him in Lorien in the FotR EE, about not carrying the guilt for Gandalf's death, I think he misses Frodo's major burden at that point. But I think that's a good choice for the movies, as it emphasizes Boromir's connection with M&P all the more.

...All through the big battle scenes (which I found very tedious), I kept thinking, “Peter Jackson would have done this MUCH better.” PJ never lets you lose sight of the individuals in his battles.
PJ, of course, had the help of a great battle choreographer, who realized the importance of the "little people" in a battle :) . Been awhile since I've read the "original version" of Troy ;) , so I don't know if that movie had the same advantage.

-----------
Have to give a hand to the Google ads! On the previous page, they tried Ian Caldwell, Ian Tyson, and Ian and Sylvia--and then actually had one for Joy Division!

Wonder if that's related to the statements from the scriptwriters that Frodo's sailing is equivalent to his death? Tolkien doesn't see it as the "end of the story" for Frodo, but perhaps they do??


I am so glad to see you say that Tolkein doesn't see it as 'the end' for Frodo.
I saw the films before reading the book, and I was left feeling absolutely numb and devastated at the end of ROTK. I felt like I was grieving for someone, and I couldn't cope with the feeling of having gone through 9 hours of film just to have Frodo die, which was how my husband had both seen and read it. On reading in the appendices that Samwise joins Frodo many years later, I felt much happier, and was almost convinced that his sailing away wasn't a metaphor for death. Two conflicting thoughts stayed with me though. On the plus side it would have been rather a coincidence that Frodo and Bilbo die together at the same time, yet Sam joining Frodo could just have been a poetic way of announcing his death.

You have humbled me with your knowledge of Tolkein, and I am making sure I re-read the books carefully before I watch the EE in December. I got too caught up in the adventure first time round and didn't think about what I was reading.

zkgrumpy: I think the movie for which you saw the trailer is called National Treasure, and it does indeed feature Sean Bean (who was also, IMHO, the best thing about Troy – and with a much better hairdo than in LotR).

Yes that's it. But - AAAAK!!!! I saw a preview last night on PBS about a Masterpiece Theatre production about Henry VIII - Sean was in that one too! Featured prominently in the preview! :) Sounds like Borimar's arrow-studded death didn't hurt ol' Sean any, huh? :) :)

~grumpy

TGShaw:

Wonder if that's related to the statements from the scriptwriters that Frodo's sailing is equivalent to his death? Tolkien doesn't see it as the "end of the story" for Frodo, but perhaps they do??

Peter Jackson:

we looked upon the ending, really, as being a metaphor for Frodo passing the shore, that he -- you know, that you were “fare-welling” somebody who was, who seems to be dying. I mean, he was going to this blessed land, and he... We do certainly feel that Tolkien regarded that as being a visualization of somebody’s death. He said, well, you get on a ship and you sail out into the harbor, and farewell them into this light; but it’s fairly obvious what Tolkien was really referring to. And we tried to honor that. We tried to give it that sense of sadness. I feel it’s extremely poignant that Frodo effectively is ultimately killed at the end of the story; I mean, he does ultimately die in the film; he can’t live. And, yeah -- it just makes it very sad.


This is from the interview I just read yesterday on that site. I do NOT think of Frodo's sailing away as dying. Are the elves dying, too?? Yeah, metaphor metaphor. I don't think of it that way. But since Gandalf talked to Pippin about dying and the distant shores, and as he did we hear the strains of "Into the West" in the background--I figure it fits with the movie version. I suppose they don't have to explain why some elves have been there and back again since it is not mentioned in the movie. For myself--even separating the movie from the book--I will NOT buy Frodo's death!! :haha: That is too much for me this morning!! FRODO LIVES!!! :z:

I join you all in my admiration for Sean Bean's portrayal of Boromir. I thought it superb. He was given some great words to speak...he really had some great lines. I love it in Moria when he asks What New Devilry is this? (or some such words).

He just nails his scenes. He brings such humanity to Boromir. I don't get why some people I know persist in hating boromir because he tried to take the ring and was "evil"--Boromir was just the perfect illustration of what would happen to anyone who got near enough to the ring. Why would he trust that a little hobbit could contend with Sauron?? THe ring worked away at some very realistic doubts.

I love the way Elijah and Sean B. played off of each other. Viggo and Sean, as well.

Wrist/hand problems prevent me from typing more on this topic, but only two words are really needed:

FRODO LIVES.



OK, a few more words--Tolkien's letters spell out what he thought the healing process for Frodo would be. Nuff said.

EDITED (argh) because the brain is slower even than the hand: Tolkien also said that it was given to Frodo, in the Undying Lands, to order the time of his own death.

Yay!!! Flourish!!! :cool:

(what's wrong with your hand :( )


Achila, forgot to tell you how much I like the wedding picture you posted. Maybe it is the Ian Curtis look :)

Thank you Alyon! :) Never understood why PJ kept playing that particular tune.

(I'm not sure what's wrong with my hand--it isn't quite serious enough yet to check it out, merely strange and annoying, but it's probably long years of keyboarding catching up with me at last. *sigh* I'll have to lurk even more deeply and learn to be very, very concise. :eek: )

from Achila:
here's a photo of Elijah taken at a wedding he attended this past Saturday. Notice the haircut.

Hey, girl, welcome back!
And thanks a million for the wedding pic (who is that with Lij, btw? Is it Zack? I thought it was Dom for a brief moment - hence my PM to you! - but the hairline is more than a tad too receding for the young Mancunian).
Talking of Mancunians (I used to be one too, Skater Girl!) I've a very strong feeling you and Moondancer are on to something. Lij will know about Mancunian music through Dom, so it's entirely possible he listened to Joy Division (etc.) all through his TWO recent films (Hooligans and EII did come very close together). And, as we all know, Elwood has no problem with English accents (different as Mancunian is - but he'll have learnt that from Dom by now!). Dunno, but it certainly sounds like Elijah :)

Back to lurkdom .... am being swallowed whole by RL right now :(

Hey, girl, welcome back!


Thanks luv!

And thanks a million for the wedding pic (who is that with Lij, btw? Is it Zack? I thought it was Dom for a brief moment - hence my PM to you! - but the hairline is more than a tad too receding for the young Mancunian).


No -- not Dom, but not sure. He's not one of the WWS guys, I don't think (various people thought he was Shox, but he isn't). And no, not Zach either. He was in the other picture I posted, which I had to remove.

An explanation about that -- it came from a private photo album that ended up not exactly private (and I didn't know this because it happened while I was away on vacation -- someone emailed me the pic). So if anyone would like to see it, please PM me.


Talking of Mancunians (I used to be one too, Skater Girl!) I've a very strong feeling you and Moondancer are on to something. Lij will know about Mancunian music through Dom, so it's entirely possible he listened to Joy Division (etc.) all through his TWO recent films (Hooligans and EII did come very close together).


As I suggested, that haircut Elijah was sporting at the wedding makes him the spitting image of Ian Curtis (that's why I posted the pic). And based on the article we saw, as you mentioned, all signs point to him. Jude Law is supposedly being considered as well, but I think Jude is too old. We'll see. I think it would be a wonderful part for Lij and I hope he gets it.

For all Sean Bean fans...There's a 10 minute preview of "National Treasure"
which has a lot of Sean featured in it(on the website) for the movie. I ,also ,thought he was a wonderful Boromir...his death scene was so beautifully done in Fellowship...if done by some other actor it might have been "hokey" or overly melodramatic.. but he managed to make it beautifully touching and his delivery of the scene was just perfect,IMVHO.

Also, I was having a conversation with my son Mark who is a huge music and film fan and I asked him if he was at all familar with Ian Curtis or Joy Division...well he wasn't but his natural curious nature inquired why I asked and we had a nice little conversation about the possibilities of who might be appropriate to play the part of this young man...
After I explained a little about Ian's background and showed him his picture I told him "some people" were thinking about Jude Law or Ewan McGregor playing this part....okay it was a shameless ploy on my part just to bring up a more suitable actor..of my liking :D Now let me first tell you ,my son is "very harsh" with his view on many actors...he tends to be very hypercritical of many of the actors I enjoy....and even though he is a big fan of films...and pretty knowledgable about them(he is ,after all ,MY SON ;) ) he tends to not be very generous or forgiving with the actors' performances...even of the films he really likes...
To make a long story short....he said..."Oh God no...Jude Law...Ewan McGregor...can't they pick someone closer in age...and someone who can act!"
Mom runs over to laptop and shows him "The One Lad"...with new dark-*ss
brown hair and bangs and says..."what da ya think about this guy?"
As I hold my breath waiting for, The Negative Son, to answer...

His reply."H**L yea....at least he can act....and he does look a little like him.
Yea.. that's a good choice....can he sing?"

My son may not be the positive person I am but he does know a good choice when he sees one..... and occasionaly recognizes a good actor...and made some big brownie points with his Mom today....of course he does go thru my DVD collections....Do you think he's noticed how many movies I own with Mr. Wood in them.....maybe just a few :D :D :D And from his comment...sounds like he's watched them ;)

Given enough time I'll convert the world over to the shrine of Elijah :z:
Can I make money doing this?....I might need to quit my job :cool:

tgshaw wrote:

IMHO, Boromir never understood Frodo--certainly not in the book, and I don't think even in the movies. When he talks to him in Lorien in the FotR EE, about not carrying the guilt for Gandalf's death, I think he misses Frodo's major burden at that point.
I’m such a cynic that I think Boromir’s apparent concern for Frodo at that point (when Frodo is feeling isolated and rather paranoid as well as guilty) is really just B. opportunistically trying to ingratiate himself, as he does again at Amon Hen (?? not really sure what place name refers to what place in that part of the movie) before trying to take the Ring. Which is not to say, by any means, that I think Boromir is an unsympathetic character. I like his relationship with Merry and Pippin, as you do. And his love of his country is so obvious, in his speech to Aragorn in Lorien, and in that wonderful expression on his face when the Argonath first come into view.

About the discussion of Frodo’s sailing away being the equivalent of his death: Not having read Peter Jackson’s comments on the subject, I never interpreted that scene that way. I just assumed that Frodo couldn’t continue living in this particular world – just as the Elves couldn’t, for very different reasons. But his friends would never see him again, so in that sense, their parting was just as final as if he did die. (I had read the book by the time I saw RotK, but even if I hadn’t, I don’t think I would have thought of the scene as a death metaphor.)

(Plaintively) Anyone: Who the heck is Shox??

(Plaintively) Anyone: Who the heck is Shox??

Shox is Shoxwaken Hinks, the lead singer of World Without Sundays (WWS), and one of Elijah's friends. They played at the TORn party.

Achila: Thanks for the information (I've seen references to Shox elsewhere, and never knew who he was; still DK the band).

BTW, I was talking today with a coworker to whom I had loaned my ESOTSM DVD. She and her son’s girlfriend adored the movie (husband and son hated it). But she thought Patrick not only was a creep, but also had stalker tendencies. I hadn’t thought about this before. But she pointed out that he is apparently lurking outside Clementine’s house the morning that she and Joel come back from Boston (when Patrick bangs on Joel’s car window), and is still there when she comes home after having a row with Joel over the audiotape. On the other hand, Patrick doesn’t seem particularly obsessive in the rest of the movie, or threatening – just pathetic. On the OTHER other hand, Clementine jokes with Joel about HIM (Joel) being a stalker. Hmmmm.

Started reading Sean's book a couple of days ago *thank you HoneyElf*...

By the way, around this time I made Christine a partner in Lava Entertainment. To this day she remains the vice president and chief financial officer. Oh, and treasurer too. Technically, she can vote me off the board, I think.

Raise your hand if you think she should. *quickly raises hand, while chanting, "do it Christine, do it!.

Sorry, back to the Ian discussion. I am not familiar with the person or band but for Elijah to be in a movie based around the music scene, even if a tragic story, would be interesting and challenging for him since he utterly adores music. I'd like to see him do that.

But she thought Patrick not only was a creep, but also had stalker tendencies. I hadn’t thought about this before. But she pointed out that he is apparently lurking outside Clementine’s house the morning that she and Joel come back from Boston (when Patrick bangs on Joel’s car window), and is still there when she comes home after having a row with Joel over the audiotape. On the other hand, Patrick doesn’t seem particularly obsessive in the rest of the movie, or threatening – just pathetic. On the OTHER other hand, Clementine jokes with Joel about HIM (Joel) being a stalker. Hmmmm.
IMHO, Patrick has stalker tendencies, but he's too ineffectual at just about anything to be very threatening. Once the pieces of the story started fitting together time-wise, I was really struck (no pun intended) by his banging on the car window--Patrick knows who Joel is, and he doesn't want him to see Clementine. And our last sight of Patrick, where he's standing outside and shouting at Clementine's window, seemed stalker-like to me (I also thought it was the perfect last scene for the character, although I would have liked to have seen more of him before that). There's also the whole panty stealing thing--he's not just stealing women's underwear, he's specifically, purposely stealing Clementine's underwear, which seems a bit spooky to me.

--------------

Regarding nasty ol' Boromir :p : He's much less sympathetic in the book. Here's a couple of paragraphs from one of my "LotR: Book to Movie" essays (to keep from having to type it all over again :rolleyes: ).

Both of the sons are given "growing room" in the movies by being started further away from their final selves than they are in the book. Boromir, as we learn in the TTT extended edition, doesn't replace Faramir on the journey to Imladris out of his own willfulness but because he's commanded to do so by his father. Even when the dream is mentioned in the extended edition Council of Elrond, it's given to Boromir rather than Faramir, so Boromir is in no way usurping Faramir's obvious call to the task as he does in the book. Boromir is much more of a "nice guy" when we first meet him in the movies, especially the extended editions, which makes his fall to the power of the Ring all the harder.

But if I get back to my self-appointed purpose of giving opinions about whether the movies' character arcs work within the movies, I have to say Boromir's does. His "nicening up" (actually begun by Tolkien, who made him an out-and-out traitor in early drafts) lessens the force of some of the story's underpinnings, such as vocation and free will, but, as many viewers--even many book lovers--have said, it makes him a more rounded character, whose fall and death is seen as a real tragedy by the audience. And Sean Bean's acting doesn't hurt! Since the movies give short shrift to those underpinnings all along, Boromir's character arc was probably a good decision.

--------------

On Frodo's sailing as a metaphor of death: I think everything within the movies reinforces that idea, so I'm not surprised that PJ would see it that way. It does surprise me a bit that he believes Tolkien was so clear about it:
We do certainly feel that Tolkien regarded that as being a visualization of somebody’s death. He said, well, you get on a ship and you sail out into the harbor, and farewell them into this light; but it’s fairly obvious what Tolkien was really referring to.
Hmmm... not so obvious, perhaps. But PJ also said he found Saruman's genocidal ambitions in the book, and I don't think Tolkien put them there, either.

From my own "history" with LotR, I tend to cut the screenwriters a bit of slack on the "metaphor of death" thing, especially if they're trying to tell the story depending only on that book. Because when we readers had only that book (that is, no Letters, no Sil, no HoMe), it was a fairly common interpretation. But the emphasis then wasn't on death but on Frodo going to some special kind of everlasting life--the idea that led to "Frodo Lives" in the first place.

But IMHO, saying that "Tolkien regarded that as being a visualization of someone's death," would have been stretching it even farther than we would have in 1969. "Metaphor" and "visualization" are dangerous words when interpreting Tolkien (too close to "allegory" for comfort--mine, at least). He's telling us about a historical event that involved some of the inhabitants of Middle-earth, and if aspects of it remind some people of death, well, that's okay, but that's not what's happening, and he wouldn't want it said that way. (Interesting that PJ talks about farewelling the boat "into this light" which, of course, happens only in the movie.)

In an effort to get back on topic ;) , from things Elijah has said, I don't think he interprets it that way. In the back of my mind, I'm thinking he might have made one statement about Frodo "essentially" dying, but that could have been in relation to the people he left behind. He's also made the statement about Frodo shedding his lost innocence. And I remember very well that he talked about the hobbits being better off because of what they'd experienced/learned, and "You might even say Frodo was better off." Those remarks sound to me as if he thinks Frodo does have a future beyond the end of the movie. (Besides, there's no way I can see that last nod as the act of someone who considers himself to be dying! :) )

from Skater Girl
You have humbled me with your knowledge of Tolkein, and I am making sure I re-read the books carefully before I watch the EE in December. I got too caught up in the adventure first time round and didn't think about what I was reading.
Well, y'know, I've been at this for 35 years now, so I'd better know something :p ! I'm humbled by those who've come to the story so recently--since the movies were released--and already have such an understanding of it. :) BTW--If you want to see serious Tolkien geeks at work :p , there's a debate going on in the Green Dragon right now about whether Dior (a character in the Sil) is all mortal, all elf, half mortal/half elf, or half mortal/one-quarter elf/one-quarter maia. The scary thing is that they can actually give evidence for what they're saying :eek: ! Since my heart will always belong to Frodo, I don't plan to be researching that question any time soon ;) .

With Our Boy saying things like: wanting to be a Secret Agent if he wasn't Acting, isn't it funny that unlike Frankie Muntz, he didn't do a Spy comedy movie?

Maybe he'll be a very good James Bond, if Hugh Jackman doesn't do. LOL.

First of all...I'm not getting too enthousiastic about this Ian Curtis rumor because...well, it's only speculation and there's no evidence or even a hint that there's a link between Elijah Wood and the movie but I was wondering if Elijah knows Joy Division and I found an interview where he mentionned the group.

I've heard you're a big music nut. Do you have any specific musical associations with making the LOTR trilogy?

Oh my god, yeah. In fact, there's this project I've always wanted to do, which is to make mix CDs of music I listened to during every film. It seems like a really cool way to remember those experiences, because music always sends you back to a very specific time. During Lord of the Rings, I became a Stone Roses fan, mainly because of Dom Monahan [sic], who's Mancunian, so he grew up with that kind of Happy Mondays and Joy Division stuff from Manchester. I also was into the second Travis record during LOTR. I became a Clean fan, which is a New Zealand band. That was the one band that I really grabbed onto that was from there.


Also, looking in Dominic Monahan's bio: it mentions that he's a Joy Division fan so it's very probable that he introduced the band to Elijah if he didn't know their music before LOTR.
(somebody in this thread already made the Dom Monahan/Manchester/Joy Division connection, I believe)
From the same interview:
How often do you get mistaken for Tobey Maguire?

A lot. I have a great story and I hope it gets printed because I'd love if the guy read it. I was at a screening for Once Upon A Time in Mexico, and a guy leaned over my seat and said, 'Hello, I'd just like to congratulate you on Seabiscuit. I thought it was a really wonderful movie and you were great in it.' I said, 'I'm sorry, I'm not Tobey Maguire.' And without missing a beat he was like, 'I know...I'm just telling you that it's a great movie and you're Elijah Wood and you're in Lord of the Rings, which is also a great film, and I just thought that I should mention it because you should definitely see it because it's great. And I was just talking to Tobey Maguire who said that you guys are really good friends--you guys are really good friends, right?' I was like, 'Well, not really. I don't know him that well.' 'Well, he thinks you're great and he thought you were great in Lord of the Rings, and you should definitely see Seabiscuit and congratulations on Lord of the Rings.' It was unbelievable. He turned it around brilliantly. Not only did he try to fix it, but he went so overboard creating this incredible web of lies. That was the coolest f**k-up of that kind I've ever seen.
:D


Source: "Three the Hard Way", Nylon magazine, dec 2003 - jan 2004.

Jude Law doesn't play Ian Curtis. According to the film producer, Jude looks too old.
Also, some Joy Division fan on some message board was saying that Jude doesn't have the right sort of eyes because you need somebody with 'intense' eyes.
Other JD fans argued that Elijah's not tall enough to play Ian but that shouldn't be a problem, in my opinion.
Yet another JD fan suggested that 'if that hobbit wants to play Ian, he needs to loose his hobbit fat because Ian had a small body frame'...I think that this JD fan is confusing his hobbits.

Intense eyes, small body frame,...?

Note to self: It's only a rumor. Elijah's name is just one amongst some other names being mentionned...don't get your hopes up


As I hold my breath waiting for, The Negative Son, to answer...

His reply."H**L yea....at least he can act....and he does look a little like him.
Yea.. that's a good choice....can he sing?"
:cool:



There was more that I wanted to say about the Grey Haven's scene but...work's calling. Maybe later.

tgshaw wrote:

IMHO, Patrick has stalker tendencies, but he's too ineffectual at just about anything to be very threatening.That’s a good point. He is pretty incompetent – which of course makes him a perfect Lacuna employee. (As Mark Ruffalo says in one of the bonus features, “They’re like the guys who’ll paint your house for $10.”)

And our last sight of Patrick, where he's standing outside and shouting at Clementine's window, seemed stalker-like to me (I also thought it was the perfect last scene for the character, although I would have liked to have seen more of him before that).
It is the perfect last scene for him. He has no clue as to what is going on with her, and also, if I remember correctly, he automatically assumes that she’s angry because of something he’s done – as if nothing else could be happening in her life.

There's also the whole panty stealing thing--he's not just stealing women's underwear, he's specifically, purposely stealing Clementine's underwear, which seems a bit spooky to me.
But at least he has the grace (if the word can be used at all in connection with this character) to look embarrassed when he tells Stan about that, so he realizes that it was a weird thing to have done.

Regarding the “Frodo dead or alive” question, tg wrote:

Besides, there's no way I can see that last nod as the act of someone who considers himself to be dying!
Yes, in my earlier post on the subject, I considered writing that if he’s going to his death, he’s the most cheerful corpse-to-be that I’ve ever seen! But I thought that might be considered frivolous. :rolleyes: I still don’t really see a death metaphor coming through clearly in the movie, even if that’s what PJ intended. Doesn’t Frodo tell Bilbo that being granted passage on the last ship to leave Middle-earth is a great honor? Doesn’t sound like death to me.

Hallo ladies!!!!!

I just watch the deep impact!!

And i have too say that it is a very good movie!!!
But why ´did they have to mess with elijah`s teeth???? :confused:

I think that little gap in his mouth is a bit of his lovely charm!!!!!! :p

love/wood

From filmcritic.com's list of the Top 50 Sci-Fi and Fantasy films. Here we go again. Hmph.

21. Lord of the Rings trilogy

Its legion of fans will be shocked to see the trilogy this far down the list. I’m surprised too, but I can dig it; the Rings movies are monumental achievements in terms of production, but far from immune to the drawbacks of other large-scale fantasies (listless and pronouncement-heavy dialogue; characters who blend in with one another) as well as is some all its own (Elijah Wood’s single “I’m stunned and a little bit confused” facial expression). Still, Peter Jackson commands all of the spectacle with a sure hand and comes through with some beautiful images and a solid story. Plus, he showed the world that a nerd obsession can, in fact, win the Oscar. (JH)

Ian Curtis??

Intense eyes, slight build....

Here's another one, Moondancer---Ian's wife is supposedly involved in the project. He died at 23 in 1979. So I'm guessing that puts her in the mid-forties age bracket? A perfect demographic for Elijah...umm.... appreciation :D
Whatever the fans are saying, she'll want Elijah!! :lol:

Alyon runs out quickly before someone throws something at her :D

From filmcritic.com's list of the Top 50 Sci-Fi and Fantasy films. Here we go again. Hmph.
It's hard to quibble with most of the highly-placed films, although it doesn't look like they defined "top" for their panel of 20--some of the films named fall under "most important," but honestly wouldn't be rated among the "best" if compared to all movies ever made--Metropolis, for example.

There's also a definite bias toward science fiction (against fantasy). If I count the movies that would commonly be considered fantasy, I come up with 8 out of 50. If I give the benefit of the doubt to ones that could be considered fantasy, my count only goes to 15. Even though they make the case that it's sometimes hard to draw the line, IMHO they should still keep the lists separate, because the elements needed for a good fantasy aren't necessarily the same as what's needed for good science fiction. (For example, the panel seemed to give a lot of weight to "interesting" scientific ideas, which I'd agree with if they were just looking at science fiction). If they want to put Star Wars on both lists, fine.

I also think a bias against fantasy shows up in the reviewer's comments about LotR--since he lists some things that he considers to be inherent problems in all fantasy movies (although I don't agree). There are no more words to use about the "additional problem" he gives to LotR.

Did you notice ESOTSM coming in at #11? Funny the reviewer doesn't mention Patrick's single facial expression... :confused:

I kind of like his supposed insult that "even a nerd obsession can win the Oscar"--although, of course, the proper word would be geek ;) . It's about time, I say! (And, do I have to add, that the statement, IMVHO, just makes the anti-fantasy bias more clear? If the most important and best fantasy* ever written is just a "nerd obsession," well, where do you go from there?)

*Test to see if Brunhild is lurking ;) .

Achila quoted from filmcritic.com’s blurb on LotR:

Elijah Wood’s single “I’m stunned and a little bit confused” facial expression
Can we send those people a link to tg’s “The Wizards Are Odd,” as a crash course???

EDIT: On a more pedestrian level, I just noticed: Someone on TOR.n reports that E! Entertainment has listed the scene in RotK where Aragorn and everyone else at the coronation bow to the hobbits as #41 on its list of “101 Most Awesome Moments in Entertainment.” That’s one of the scenes where I always start bawling. Plus, I love Frolijah’s subtly changing expression (take THAT, filmcritic.com! :mad: ), good use of eyebrows, and the way his mouth opens slightly just before the scene fades out. (I think all of the hobbits’ reactions in that scene are very much in character: as I recall, Sam looks sort of abashed, Merry looks as if he’s thinking, “Yes!” and Pippin just looks confused.)

And tg, I agree that there should be separate lists for sci-fi and fantasy. They're such different genres, and neither really should be judged by the standards of the other.

Can we send those people a link to tg’s “The Wizards Are Odd,” as a crash course???
;) Well, personally, I'd probably choose The One Expression (http://www.frodolivesin.us/oneexpression/) instead, but whatever you think would work. ;)

While I wouldn't pick the "You Bow to No One" moment as the best one out of the entire trilogy (that's still "The Turn" after Moria), it is a great moment, and shows a lot of people at their best--Viggo with that little break in his voice, which is perfect, and a good shot of Elijah's work... and also has a "big, impressive" element when everyone in the place bows. -- The moment just before that one is probably my most I-love-it-out-of-all-proportion shot in the trilogy: Getting to see real, live, correct hobbit bows :z: !! (With Frodo's the most correct, of course.) :) :)

If it had been me picking the most "iconic" moment of those movies, tho, that wouldn't have been what I would've chosen (although I love it to death and cry every time). I have my own personal favorite two -- Dimrill Dale (the One Tear (yep, tg, The Turn!) and what I call "beautiful boy crying on the beach" -- Parth Galen -- but a film critic/magazine wouldn't choose those, I'm sure.

Surely "the ring is mine" is THE moment, and the one we'll see in Oscar retrospectives for years to come.

ETA: I'm sure you're right, that the moment they picked was a big crowd shot. For my money since the central heart of the film had to do with the relationships of nine (eight) people, the reunion in Frodo's bedroom is closer to representing what the trilogy is all about. Maybe not as impressive as thousands of people bowing, but quietly impressive, all the same.

Achila--There is, of course, one "problem" with all the moments named by either of us (I'm assuming that Dimrill Dale = The One Tear = The Turn :) --the turn impresses me even more than the tear): They all have only Elijah in them :rolleyes: . I guess to judge, I'd have to look at what other moments made the list, and see if they're basically "big, impressive" ones, or if smaller, single-character moments are making the grade.

As far as Oscar retrospectives--They did pick the moment that was shown when RotK was being presented for Best Picture. There must be something there that "objective observers" are seeing as special. IIRC, someone noted that, from Elijah's facial expression (in the audience, not on screen ;) ), he seemed to expect that shot to be shown at the Oscars, but didn't expect the long, lingering close-up of Frodo to be included.

I think there's a difference between what each of us might think of an an iconic moment in the films (for me it might be Frodo standing in the woods of the Shire with the Ring in his hand, after getting away from the first Black Rider, or "I will take the Ring... though I do not know the way", but in any case it's going to be a Frodo moment, by definition)--there's a difference between that and what was billed as a "most awesome moment." It's true that without know what else was nominated we can't draw too many conclusions, but may I offer the idea that "You bow to no one," in addition to the qualities tg and Achila pointed out (highlighting several actors, huge crowd scene--which meets the definition of what I think most people mean by "awesome"), the scene is also very easy for people unfamiliar with the story to "read." Obviously someone of great rank is honoring a clutch of ordinary little guys, and everyone, but everyone within the reach of his voice concurs.

That's pretty awesome. :D

Sorry to interrupt the conversation, but I came across this blurb in the new issue of Premiere magazine (the one with Viggo's photos), and I hope this optimistic bit of news turns out to be true:

http://bunnie.mothtoaflame.com/premiereblurbNov04.jpg

Interesting that they're stull calling it The Yank, when it sounded pretty certain that it will be Hooligans. Maybe the word just isn't out, yet. Plus, how many times have they changed their minds, now? :rolleyes:

Hullo,

I'm back after a few days away with friends. Nothin' much to add to all the posts you ladies managed while I was away :eek:

Wood, that Frodo collage you posted last week is my current computer wallpaper. Of the twenty-plus Frodo pics there, I can see maybe 5 that look like they might be Elijah Wood. The rest are Frodo, through and through! How does he do that?

Interesting speculation that our Lij may be up for the role of Ian Curtis, Moondancer. Aside from the eyes I don't think he and Elijah really look much alike, but I can well believe that Elijah could have us convinced that they do by the end of the film. I think that Ewan McGregor is way too old for the part; isn't he in his early thirties?

I don't generally like biographical films. They just seem inherently sad to me. I hope the writer and director do something artful with the story, and don't do just a straight up telling. I was a little dissapointed with "Man on the Moon;" surely if Andy Kaufman himself had written that one it would have been alot more surrealistic!

Achila, I'm so glad you'll be joining Flourish and I in New York! And a native New Yorker too! This is getting better and better! :k

Bunnie, Thanks for the article about the upcoming soccer films. How unusual do you suppose it is for a film made on foreign soil to not have a distributor in the US for months after the primary filming is done? Hoping we'll get to see this one on the Big Screen in the US!

honey!

...Aside from the eyes I don't think he and Elijah really look much alike, but I can well believe that Elijah could have us convinced that they do by the end of the film...
:lol: {Oh, and welcome back!}

I don't generally like biographical films. They just seem inherently sad to me. I hope the writer and director do something artful with the story, and don't do just a straight up telling. I was a little dissapointed with "Man on the Moon;" surely if Andy Kaufman himself had written that one it would have been alot more surrealistic!



I think that music biopics generally are better than most other professional biopics--scientists' stories can be fascinating, but usually involved lots of shots of people holding beakers and petri dishes; sports figures' stories usually have actors playing the subject who can't actually play the game, and the film's believability is weakened as a result; military heroes are usually portrayed in a too-good-to-be-true fashion ("Patton" excepted), but have decent war scenes as a plus.

My favorite biopic is probably "What's Love Got To Do with It?" about Tina Turner and her eventual triumph over an abusive husband (Ike Turner), and I'm really looking forward to seeing both "Ray" (Ray Charles) and "Beyond the Sea" (Bobby Darin--sang "Mack the Knife" and the title song back in the late '50s/early '60s and was married to teen movie star Sandra Dee) this fall.

I think that a well-written story about this Joy Division lead singer (a group and person I'm not at all familiar with, btw) would be a better choice for a film than someone like Kurt Cobain, simply because less is known about him over here in the States.

*sniffs*
The bad news: My laptop is falling apart (literally) - so, if I disappear for a while from internet, you'll know why.

The good news (except for my wallet): I have my eyes on a shiny new machine that has a great price tag attached to it compared to what it offers.
It's for sale next week. That shop usually has amazing offers so you have to be there the first day, bright and early if you want to get your hands on one. I have to work :( but my dad is willing to go for me. :)



Honeyelf,
To be honest, I don't know Ian Curtis all that well. I know a couple of the Joy Division songs but that's it.
From what I've read on the internet, it looks like a great possible role.
I like reading biographies, more than I like to watch those movies. It's usually next to impossible to cram a lot of vital information and interesting stuff in a movie that lasts maximum 2 hours.
I usually don't like the time jumps in the movie. They show the celebrity at age 12 or so and after a while they jump 10 years or so. Those things are much easier in books. In the movies, they often have to use 2 different actors (the young one and the older version) or they age the actor and it's rarely believable.

Btw, I'm reading a biography of Robbie Willliams 'Feel' (OK...you can all stop laughing now...I like the guy, I can't help it) :D
Anyway, it's written by a journalist who has worked for magazines such as Rolling Stone magazine. The author has spent almost 2 years with Robbie and it's not a fluffy sort of book. Robbie's not exactly hiding his mistakes and faults in this book.
By the way, at my mother's funeral, we played Robbie's song Angels. It's such a beautiful song with such great lyrics. Especially the older members of my family needed convincing because they didn't think it was appropriate. But, together with my brother-in-law and my sister-in-law, I translated the text to Dutch and we did play it even if some family members disagreed with it.
They said: "come on...a pop song at a funeral?"
I had a big argument with an uncle who disliked the idea and he came up to me afterwards to thank me for not listening to him and playing the song anyway.
I can't believe the reactions I got from those attending the church. We showed the translation of the lyrics on a big screen and made sure that the sound system in the church was good.
So many people thanked me for the choice of song.
Needless to say that Robbie has a special place in my heart even if he's a big goofball sometimes.


Jeez...I'm rambling again.
OK...what I wanted to say about that book:
At a certain time, Robbie is surfing the net and he decides to have a look at what's selling of him on ebay. He sees his autograph for sale... "Fake". Next autograph..."not mine".
Now, he's curious so he looks up all the autographs for sale because there must be one real one in there, right? He has given enough autographs.
You know what? Not one was real. He couldn't believe it. They were all fake. Even those that come with a certificate of authenticity (people who fake autographs to get money out of fans, have no trouble faking such a certificate as well).

I'm not one to actually buy an autograph of a celeb (I know that there are professional autograph hunters out there) but I'm even less inclined to do so after reading that book.


Getting back to an Elijah Wood topic.
Thanks for the scan, bunnie.
So, it's still not certain that they will play it in the US?
It doesn't surprise me that the movie has a distributor over here but not yet in the US.
My guess is that this is because it's about a sport that's not so popular in the US. Usually, the movies about typically American sports (like baseball, American football) go straight to video here even if it features big stars like Keanu Reeves (a movie that was a number one hit in the US went straight to video here...Keanu did receive fairly good reviews for that movie too) and Kevin Costner.

Honeyelf- when are you having your NY Faculty Moot?

there's a possibility that Elijah will be there on December 1st;

IFP/New York has unveiled the first two honorees for the 14th annual Gotham Awards. The event, which this year will take place on December 1st, will honor Don Cheadle with the Gotham Actor Award, while the inaugural "Celebrate New York Tribute" will spotlight Michel Gondry 's "Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind."

The new "Celebrate New York" tribute was designed, in the words of the IFP/New York, "to acknowledge a film that was shot in New York and expands the boundaries of creative expression." Cast and crew of the film are expected to attend. Michel Gondry's latest, written by Charlie Kaufman, stars Jim Carrey, Kate Winslet, Kirsten Dunst, Mark Ruffalo, Elijah Wood, and Tom Wilkinson. It was produced by New York companies This Is That and Anonymous Content, and distributed by Focus Features.

Full story here (http://www.ifctv.com/ifc/insiderNews?CAT0=5827&NID=9127&CLR=orange&BCLR=FF6600)

Thanks for that news, Quicksilver. We are meeting about a month too early (next weekend!), but since I live near the city I will have to keep an eye on that event. :D You never know!

Sorry to hear about you laptop, Moondancer!!!!
Hope you not begone to long!! :(

Well all you ladies who is going to meat
each other in New York i hope you will have a great
time!!! ;) And i realy wish i coulde be there with you!!! :(

And thanks for the scan Bunnie!!!!!
I realy looking forward too this movie,i hope it will be realest here in
Sweden but i think so!!

Love you all/Wood

OK, I’m late for the members’ “awesome” nominations (or iconic, or whatever), but here goes. (Being a creature of excess, I have to have several -- not all Frodocentric.)

Spectacularly, eye-poppingly, heart-stoppingly awesome:
The lighting of the beacons, in RotK
(Honorable mention: Gandalf and the Rohirrim charging down the mountain out of the sunrise at Helm's Deep, in TTT)

Emotion-wrenchingly awesome:
What you all call "The Turn" in FotR
(Honorable mention: Frodo and Sam embracing at the Grey Havens)

"What's-it-all-about" awesome:
Gandalf: "All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us.”
(Honorable mention: Frodo crawling up Mount Doom)
(Alternate honorable mention: “We set out to save the Shire, Sam. And it has been saved. But not for me.” Where is the sobbing "smilie"??)

Elijah awesome:
Since I don't want to repeat any of the above picks, I'll go with "It's gone! It's done!" in RotK. I just love the way he does that.
(Honorable mention: Too many to narrow down)

Most awesome blending of cinematography, film and sound editing, and music: Faramir’s doomed attack on Osgiliath, in RotK

As far as biopics are concerned, I don't know whether it can truly be considered one (it's pretty bizarre -- directed by Tim Burton, so what do you expect?), but I think Ed Wood, with Johnny Depp, is excellent. It does seem to capture the spirit of the man.

EDIT: Some news, courtesy of a TORN link:

Writer Charlie Kaufman & Actor Elijah Wood Q&A Following "Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind" (2004)
At the ArcLight Cinema in LA, 10/28/04; sold out, unfortunately (and not surprisingly).


tgshaw: I hadn’t looked at “The One Expression” before, but now that I have, I agree that it would be a much better crash course for the “expression-challenged” types at filmcritic.com. This goes beyond different expressions: he practically looks like several different people. Sometimes I wonder what movie these people are watching. . . .

Wood,
my computer hasn't died on me YET... *pets her laptop*...so, you're not getting rid of me that easily. :D


Little bit of news on Dougie Brimson's site:
Speaking of Hooligans I have heard that test screenings carried out in Los Angeles this week went very well so with luck, we'll soon have news of a release date for both here and in the US. And all being well, I'll have a bit more news of some of the other projects as well.
From here (http://www.brimson.net/)

ETA: That's very encouraging news, Moondancer (both about the movie and your laptop :p ).

-----------------

I've skipped the categories where I couldn't think of anything to add :p :

Spectacularly, eye-poppingly, heart-stoppingly awesome:
The lighting of the beacons, in RotK
(Honorable mention: Gandalf and the Rohirrim charging down the mountain out of the sunrise at Helm's Deep, in TTT)
The beacons, definitely, and I'd add the first charge of the Rohirrim, with the orcs not knowing what to do when those crazy people just keep coming. And one of the special effects that really worked, IMHO, was when we watched from above as the two sets of forces came together.

I was reminded of another one when I had FotR in the computer a couple of nights ago--the first time we see Barad-Dur. The camera shows us what seems like a large tower, then the camera pulls back and we see that it was just a small part of this huge... thing! And this is what our hobbits are pitted against! And best of all, the hobbits win! On the other "end" of the story, in RotK, I appreciate so much that we're shown specifically the foundations of Barad-Dur being destroyed. When Sauron was defeated at the end of the Second Age, the victors destroyed the tower, but because the Ring still existed, they couldn't destroy the foundation, which allowed Sauron to come back. It took a couple of hobbits to do what a combined army of Men and Elves hadn't been able to.

So both the first time and the last time we see Barad-Dur are awesome.

"What's-it-all-about" awesome:
...Honorable mention: Frodo crawling up Mount Doom...
IMHO, that's the moment that best shows what RotK is all about.

Elijah awesome:
Since I don't want to repeat any of the above picks, I'll go with "It's gone! It's done!" in RotK. I just love the way he does that.
(Honorable mention: Too many to narrow down)
I'll agree with your honorable mention :p ! To pick one that I honestly don't think any other actor could have pulled off, I'll name the time Sting is at Sam's throat in TTT, and it's actually possible to see the struggle between Frodo and the Ring play out instant by instant on his face.
This does go back a ways, so for those who haven't seen the discussion on it, you can find it at Osgiliath: Internal Struggle (http://www.frodolivesin.us/id216.htm). It got a little dangerous going into the LotR movie pages on my site, because I kept seeing other moments to mention. But I stuck with the one I went looking for. :)

tgshaw: I hadn’t looked at “The One Expression” before, but now that I have, I agree that it would be a much better crash course for the “expression-challenged” types at filmcritic.com. This goes beyond different expressions: he practically looks like several different people. Sometimes I wonder what movie these people are watching. . . .
Either you've fit in so well that I thought you'd been here longer, or time is flying faster than I realized, or--probably--both :) . I never even thought that you might not have been here when those pages first went up, very shortly after the RotK DVD was released. I just figured you'd had a "slip of the finger" in your post ;) -- hence the winks ;) .

tgshaw wrote (regarding awesome Frolijah moments):

To pick one that I honestly don't think any other actor could have pulled off, I'll name the time Sting is at Sam's throat in TTT, and it's actually possible to see the struggle between Frodo and the Ring play out instant by instant on his face.
Yes, that scene is one of my favorites, too. As I may have said here before, those blue eyes look almost crazed when he draws his sword. There’s no recognition in them. (No wonder Sam says, “It’s your Sam!”) And it’s a very different “struggle between Frodo and the Ring” that we see in his face here than at the Cracks of Doom. In Osgiliath, he still has enough of himself left to realize what the Ring has made him do, and to be appalled by it. But at the CoD, there doesn’t seem to be much of that consciousness left.

and I'd add the first charge of the Rohirrim, with the orcs not knowing what to do when those crazy people just keep coming. And one of the special effects that really worked, IMHO, was when we watched from above as the two sets of forces came together.
Do you mean at Helm’s Deep, or at the Pelennor Fields (which would have been my other honorable mention in the “spectacular awesome” category – starting with that shot of the Rohirrim lined up on the horizon at dawn)? I like anything with large numbers of horses and riders dashing about the landscape.

Inspired by Moondancer’s news item about Hooligans (or whatever it’s going to end up being called), I went searching for more info on the test screenings. Didn’t find anything, but ran into the following in a review of Undertow on Ain’t It Cool News (edited by me, for language):

From reading this review, I get a very RADIO FLYER feeling about this flick. That movie ****ed me up as a kid. I could watch Ripley duking it out . . . or Jason hacking and slashing his way through horny teens, but should I happen upon Elijah Wood trying to protect his little brother from an abusive stepfather... well, my stomach would tighten.

Trying to find reactions from those who saw the preview.
Haven't found much.

On the IMDB site, somebody who saw the preview posted a little comment on the message board for the movie.

I saw this movie yesterday. It was an advance screening. It is a very good movie with some good fight scenes. One thing for sure this is going to be a very big movie in England, I am not to sure about here in U.S.A. . Just because many people wont understand many British words. I will be answering any question that you guys have about the movie
_____
saw it at Long Beach, CA (U.S.A). It was 1hr45 min long. Pub scenes were good but what I like was the walk from pub to the football stadium. Elijah Wood was good but this movie clearly belongs to Charlie Hunnam. He got the best role in the film. I don’t know anything about his accent being spot on or not but I know that he is going to be a big star here in U.S.A.

"Just because many people wont understand many British words"
:rolleyes:


My guess is that this person mostly had eyes for Charlie Hunnam because others were asking questions about Elijah but the only reaction they got was "he was good but Charlie....Charlie...Charlie..." ;)

There was a little discussion on the message board about Charlie Hunnam's accent. Some guys had heard that his accent is "pretty bad" but others said that his accent was "spot on".

Hunnam does have all that it takes to be a big success in Hollywood. He certainly has the right sort of looks for it + a British accent (there's something about a beautiful man talking in a beautiful British accent...one of the many reasons why it was great to see & hear Elijah Wood play Frodo)

Warning: This post contains remarks of a swooning nature...

Moodancer wrote...

(there's something about a beautiful man talking in a beautiful British accent...one of the many reasons why it was great to see & hear Elijah Wood play Frodo)

Good point, Moondancer. Yes, I have continued to lurk and have enjoyed the discussions of Frodo and am excited by the Ian Curtis rumours. [Now....if the following remarks I will be making weren't about Elijah Wood the actor more than about Frodo, I would go make them where I am supposed to, in the swooning department. But please indulge me for a teeny tiny bit and then I'll stop. :z:]

I had thought it was the costume and hair that made my particular reaction to EW the actor so entirely Frodo-specific. I have been able to wax swoony over stills from his other films, but not from watching the films themselves. "Maybe he needs to appear in a period costume to make the right effect?" I thought.

A period costume (and hair) does help enormously, but I think you are onto it, in my case, Moondancer. It's the voice. For the voice is costumed, too, in its own way. The voice and speech of Frodo is exceptionally lovely. He uses a very melodious voice; uses [mostly] elevated speech -- all spoken in an elevated accent. The voice and speech of most of his other characters (-- and of EW as a person, when he is being interviewed, esp. when interviewed in print and his speech can be quite undesirable) -- is not lovely.

We talk a lot about the nobility and fineness of Frodo's character, and how it is demonstrated on film through classical [physical] beauty. But noble and beautiful speech demonstrates that just as powerfully. Part of that beauty is created by the accent. I know from reading this and other threads that, to a British ear, film Frodo's speech was unaccented; to an American ear, however, film Frodo's was a British accent, althought not a regional one. And it was a very great pleasure for an American to hear. Such an accent immediately registers fineness and nobility of person and this is extended, unconsciously, to character, just by the sound of it. A beautiful person speaking beautifully is a potent combination. No amount of personal beauty can make up for a voice and speech that is not equal to it. (I keep seeing an image of the beautiful actress with the terrible voice, struggling comically through her elocution lessons in Singing in the Rain...)

And now, as my parting swoony gesture, I will post an image made from a well-known close-up of E.W. that I thought evocative and beautiful in its fineness and in its mood. I already posted this in the Harem a few days ago, but it occurred to me that most of you don't venture there and that you might like to see it.

Lace by Scarlet:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v382/mechtild/elijahLACE-byScarlet.jpg

I can't really tell if Elijah's English accent is "spot on" or not so, I have to trust those who can tell.
It's nice to see that he had some natives of the UK fooled with his accent.
:)

A beautiful person speaking beautifully is a potent combination. No amount of personal beauty can make up for a voice and speech that is not equal to it. (I keep seeing an image of the beautiful actress with the terrible voice, struggling comically through her elocution lessons in Singing in the Rain...)
That reminds me of a movie I once saw about the end of the era of the silent movies. In those days, the voice didn't matter of course. One of the most popular female stars didn't manage to make the transition to the talking movies because her voice was just terrible...high-pitced screeching.

Didn't Elijah mention in the commentary for one of the EE DVD's that he had to repeat all his lines in some studio because he had to speak slower and lower his voice a bit (compared to how he normally speaks?) for Frodo?


Mechtild, that lace thing is from Scarlet from TORC, right?
I really like the things she's done but the black lace doesn't really work for me (although many on TORC and in the Harem really love it)
Black lace in front of a face reminds me of the way widows used to dress for funerals: all black with a hat and black lace in front of their face.
So, call me silly but to me:
Black lace = death = sad times
White lace = weddings = happy times.
(like I said, silly)

Scarlet has an art gallery in warofthering.net, hasn't she?
I love this one:
Why do you weep? (http://www.warofthering.net/photoforum/showphoto.php?photo=2944&sort=4&cat=500&page=1)
(those tears in his eye, just waiting to fall down that cheek :( )

This is not from Scarlet but it's also from that site:
Oscar? (http://www.warofthering.net/photoforum/showphoto.php?photo=1784&size=big&sort=1&cat=500)

Thank you Moondancer!!! :k

I have put that picture in my album!!!!
It was beautiful (sniff) :(

And what i said in my earlier post was just incase your laptop
crashed before i talked to tou again!!!! :) :(

And i realy hope there is someone out there who can find
anything about Elijah and the Holigan screening!!!
I can`t find anything!!!! :z: :(

Love you/Wood

But, as the story progresses, Frodo uses fewer and fewer of them. By the time he appears in the end of TTT, talking with Faramir Captain of Gondor and son of the Steward in the cave of Henneth Annun, he not only is shown as Faramir's peer and equal as a person, in his obvious and nobility of character, his style of speech is virtually interchangeable with Faramir's. By the end of LotR, Frodo's speech has become as ennobled as he himself has become. What a good writer Tolkien was -- it was shown so subtly, this transformation, by a progressively more elevated style of speech.

Hmmm.... That will send me back to the book, for sure :) -- I'd never noticed it as a progression through the book. I'd always thought of it as Frodo's "diplomatic" ability to match his speech with whoever he's speaking with. I'll have to look at how he talks with the other hobbits after returning to the Shire.

Pelagia--Yes, I meant charge of the Rohirrim at the Pelennor Fields.

Tg, you wrote,

Hmmm.... That will send me back to the book, for sure -- I'd never noticed it as a progression through the book. I'd always thought of it as Frodo's "diplomatic" ability to match his speech with whoever he's speaking with. I'll have to look at how he talks with the other hobbits after returning to the Shire. That is very well-observed. His speech to Gollum is always very good and very courteous, when he isn't issuing commands. But even the commands have a "high" tone. I had looked at his speeches at the Scouring, and I thought them rather noble-sounding. But he is doing "public speaking" there, and when he talks to Saruman, again, he is speaking to a [once] noble person. So maybe it is just a matter of matching his style to the person with whom he is speaking, as you say. I suppose I'd have to look again at what he says after the Scouring. But you might beat me to it. If you do, please post your findings. I haven't gotten to the post-Quest part of my story yet! :D

tgshaw wrote:

I'd always thought of it as Frodo's "diplomatic" ability to match his speech with whoever he's speaking with.
That’s the way I interpreted it, too. It seems to me that I read something along those lines as well (in a lit-crit type of work), but I have no idea where. Will have to rummage through my bookcase.


EDIT: This is what I remembered reading – from Tolkien himself, in Appendix F of RotK, in the section titled “On Translation”:

It will be noticed that Hobbits such as Frodo, and other persons such as Gandalf and Aragorn, do not always use the same style. This is intentional. The more learned and able among the Hobbits had some knowledge of ‘book-language’, as it was termed in the Shire; and they were quick to note and adopt the style of those whom they met.
Obviously, Frodo would be one of the “more learned and able.” (end of edit)



tg also wrote (about "awesome" moments):

Yes, I meant charge of the Rohirrim at the Pelennor Fields.
That’s what I thought, since you mentioned:

the orcs not knowing what to do when those crazy people just keep coming.
Eomer looks especially battle-mad, I think!

The voice and speech of Frodo is exceptionally lovely.

The voice and speech of most of his other characters (-- and of EW as a person, when he is being interviewed, esp. when interviewed in print and his speech can be quite undesirable) -- is not lovely.

Having never seen him before LOTR, I got one hell of a shock when I saw the interviews on the extended DVD. I would however separate voice and speech, as his voice often sounds lovely in other character roles and at times in interviews (Jo Whiley on Radio 1 for example). I had problems with his Patrick character because of the gentle voice, and I think that the softness of his voice also affected the way people could see him in Ash Wednesday. As a Brit, I couldn't relate to the complaint of many Americans that his accent was wrong for New York, but I could see how it would be hard to imagine him hard enough to be a killer. Conversley, this soft voice was perfect for Mikey in Chain of Fools, who couldn't bring himself to commit the crime.

to an American ear, however, film Frodo's was a British accent, althought not a regional one. And it was a very great pleasure for an American to hear. Such an accent immediately registers fineness and nobility of person and this is extended, unconsciously, to character, just by the sound of it. A beautiful person speaking beautifully is a potent combination.


It was a pleasure for this Brit too. It is the soft tone, suggestive of humility, rather than the clear enunciation that portrays the fineness and nobility in both Frodo and Faramir's cases. Viggo occasionally manages it as Aragorn, and I don't think British born actors could have achieved this particular accentless English.

I am intrigued as to how Elijah will sound in Hooligans, as he was surrounded by Londeners during filming, and he certainly seemed to temporarily lose some of his American twang during the Jo Whiley interview.

From Skater Girl:
Having never seen him before LOTR, I got one hell of a shock when I saw the interviews on the extended DVD.

Can well believe that. Frolijah had more or less the entire UK fooled into thinking he was English - an amazing achievement.

I don't think British born actors could have achieved this particular accentless English.
Interesting thought! I'm not entirely sure no Brit could have achieved that accentless English, but I can't imagine many (any?) achieving both the accent AND the beauty of that voice. It exudes innocence and wisdom at the same time - both intrinsic to Elijah as much as to Frodo, or so we are told.

I would however separate voice and speech, as his voice often sounds lovely in other character roles and at times in interviews

Practically always in interviews, I find (except possibly the occasional laugh :rolleyes: ). I for one never tire of listening to him, whatever the subject or the actual content of his speech (the content is a subject for quite a long essay, er, some other time).
And Elijah is often hired for his voice alone (Happy Feet is coming soon :)), which (so to speak) speaks volumes for the voice itself, his acting, and his essence (the voice being the essence of the person). In fact I've always found Elijah's voice to be one of the most attractive things about him. Hope the cloves don't destroy it :eek:

In fact I've always found Elijah's voice to be one of the most attractive things about him. Hope the cloves don't destroy it

Serena ~ I do agree with that. He has a beautiful tone to his voice and a very gentle quality which I find so endearing. And when he is talking animatedly about something he has what I can only describe as a laugh in his voice. One small example that springs to mind is on one of the dvd extras when he's having his first blue screen experience and asks PJ "Did I do alright?" As a Brit, I've always found an American accent attractive, though I don't think Elijah's accent is very strong.

But I have to agree for loveliness of voice nothing can compare to Elijah's Frodo. I think it was Mechild who said earlier (forgive me for not going back to find it - I've already lost one really long post on this subject :mad: ) that his English accent was not regional but I'd beg to differ with that. To me he seems to have a slight West Country accent, similar to Sam's but not as strong. I've often wondered if this was intentional or something he unknowingly picked up from hearing Sean. If I'd had the nerve to ask him a question at the Q&A last year, I'd probably have asked him about that. I tend to think it was intentional, in which case what he did with the accent is even more amazing - he captured the perfect upper-class, well-educated English accent and combined it with a slight regional accent. And it came across as completely effortless. I actually envy Frodo his beautiful accent - he sounds more English than I do :D I come from Birmingham in the UK and just can't ditch the awful accent - sorry any fellow Brummies but I just do not like our accent :eek:

Moondancer ~ thanks for the link to the "Why do you weep?" pic. What a heartbreaker. And talking of heartbreakers, Undone posted this Frodo pic on her LJ with a comment directed at certain film critics: "Yep, all he did was act numb and lost and have one expression throughout all three films."

I'd like to force said critics to stare long and hard at this pic, before I .... well, perhaps I'd better not finish that sentence, wouldn't be polite ;)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v327/ShirelingUK/rotkeefs1crop.jpg


This is not acting - its 'being' :)

Just to be clear, I'm not saying E.W. doesn't have a nice voice; he does. But he makes it exceptionally lovely to listen to when playing Frodo Baggins. I mean, the voice itself; not the accent, and not his speech -- that is, the words -- he uses, which add immensely to that loveliness, too.

Shireling, to my American ears, the accent he uses as Frodo sounds like a well-bred English accent. It was British posters on this thread who said he used "unaccented English," playing Frodo. I assumed that meant an accent that was not definably regional, since he certainly sounded English (not American, not Canadian, not Australian, etc.). As to it having a West Country flavour, I don't have a good enough ear for British regional accents to hear what he might have been doing in that way. Whatever it was, it was a pleasure to hear.

P.S. Thanks for posting that giant print of the shot of the exhausted hobbits. It is very moving.

oh, shireling

That screencap is just utterly beautiful

How can you not notice more than one expression? :confused:
The mind boggles.

Pfff...I really have no patience for those critics who just can not see how amazing and how subtle Elijah was acting.
He had to say so much with just his body and especially his eyes and he did it so well. You just have to look into those 'mirrors of the soul' of his and you know exactly what Frodo is going through.
Such a loss if you can't see the micro-expressions and if you can only enjoy a movie by looking at macro-expressions.

shireling wrote:

To me he seems to have a slight West Country accent, similar to Sam's but not as strong. I've often wondered if this was intentional or something he unknowingly picked up from hearing Sean.
This is from the LotR Official Movie Guide by Brian Sibley, quoting Dialogue and Creative Language Coach Andrew Jack:

For the hobbits it was decided to find an English rural accent. “We decided to go for West Country,” recalls Jack, “and we plumped for Gloucestershire because it is not difficult to speak and it’s easy to understand.”
They probably gave Sam a stronger accent because he was supposed to be less educated, and of a different class.

And as for Elijah's own voice, I agree with you, shireling:

He has a beautiful tone to his voice and a very gentle quality which I find so endearing. And when he is talking animatedly about something he has what I can only describe as a laugh in his voice.
And the animation (both vocal and physical) is what makes him seem so charming, I think. (Beautiful screencap, shireling. So soulful.)

He has a beautiful tone to his voice and a very gentle quality which I find so endearing. And when he is talking animatedly about something he has what I can only describe as a laugh in his voice.

I'm quoting the same part of shireling's post that Pelagia did, because I totally agree. I love Lij's voice and I especially love it when he says "hello" to me on lordoftherings.net. BTW, here's the file to listen to him say his name and welcome you to the site:

http://www.lordoftherings.net/swf/welcome_4.swf

I'll get on the site and refresh it over and over (until a kind friend sent me the files for all of our LOTR friends' welcomes). It has become my little game to see how quickly I can get Elijah!

And the funny thing about his voice, too, is that no matter how filthy his language is (and it can be VERY, as you all know), it never seems like he's saying anything bad (at least to me, that is!).

I'm just loving the discussion of Elijah's beautiful voice and accent. Thank you Brits, in particular! As an American, these subtleties are lost on me. But I'm floating, thinking of how well he did!

Serena was a dear, and mailed me her copy of Sean's book. It really doesn't have very much Elijah in it, bother it all! :p OT and full of spoilers, in case you want to skip it:

Spoilers to end of post:


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I really wonder what Sean was hoping to accomplish with this book. To me, he comes across as pretty confused and lost about everything. I wonder that his family and friends "let" him publish this book. He actually comes across as delusional to me. For example, when he fantasizes about having dinner with PJ (which never happened), and envisions "the two titans" of film sitting down and hammering out the approach to LOTR. Say, what? Two titans? Meaning PJ and Sean "one award for a short film" Astin? My brain just boggles. Has he no idea how utterly delusional this sounds? Or perhaps he was trying to be funny, and didn't realize how it would come across in print?

This one struck me as key. He relates how PJ and Fran invited Elijah and Sean to dinner, to discuss the rewrite of the "Frodo leaving" scene at the end of FOTR. Sean is beside himself with delight. "At last!" he enthuses. "They like me! They want to spend time with me!" I felt like saying, "No, Sean, they don't really like you or want to spend time with you. What they want is to make an excellent movie." Only Sean never seems to get that. People don't normally want to hang with someone (unless they're brown-nosing or celebrity-gazing or something) unless the person is up to something. Sean never seems to be up to much of anything except, How can Sean be further recognized as an acting and directing force? He sees his short movie "The Long and Short of It" as an endorsement of his directing abilities, when everyone was just good-humored enough to go along for laughs. This was not a great film. This is a simple, juvenile idea, pulled off because of the charming effect of having people of such different heights in the same frame. Sean states that he spent 25 whole minutes on the screen play. Well, excuse me, a 25-minute effort just doesn't compare to a 5-year one. There's a reason why LOTR was more celebrated than Sean's short film. But he doesn't seem to get it. It struck me as sad.

There is also a nearly complete absence of any other character in the entire book. Probably Christine and PJ are mentioned the most, but nearly every scene is how Sean feels, how Sean reacts, what's in this for Sean. Maybe it was deliberate in that he didn't want to say too much about his fellow actors (which is strange, considering the number of innocent people he chose to snipe at in passing). Again, perhaps this was a miscalculation on his part about how his words would come across in print. To me, it struck me as the hallmark of a truly egocentric person. No one exists except the principal "me." No one has any interest, because that would require Sean taking the focus off of himself, a mental feat he seems incapable of accomplishing.

I really truly wonder at his motive for writing this book. This is a man who wants to seek public office someday. Heaven help us if anyone votes him in!

Mariole, I have started in the middle of Sean Astin's book, looking first for any E.W. stuff. I'm reading from the middle, out. :D When I am finished I will want to say a few things. But for now I, like you -- and all of you who already have spoken about this in the past few weeks -- wonder if Sean is "all there," to have published this. I could see how he might have written it for a therapist, but only for a therapist to see, who is trained not to show his/her true feelings about his patient.

SPOILERS
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First there's the sheer badness of the writing. How could his family let him publish this? -- Maybe it's a massive, very public effort to do a "crisis intervention" on their parts, to let him publish this. Once he crashes and burns, they figure, he'll HAVE to seek professional help. I marvel, like you, Mariole, at the way he continually frames recollections -- about Peter Jackson, about Ian McKellen, etc. -- in terms of his being their peers in greatness -- or potential greatness -- so why-can't-they-see-that? The account of going to Peter Jackson's with Ian McKellen to see the animatics, was just one embarrassing gaffe after another -- he makes himself sound like a total fool. I'm sure he didn't come across that way or they would have fired him in a heart-beat. What a shame he's telling it all now. He can't know how he sounds, poor lad. All the LotR people reading this must be both floored by his arrogant presumption and moved to pity by the spectacle of his pathetic, naked, desperately needy power-and-influence grubbing (or attempts to do so) -- all on full display!

Reading the section I just mentioned, which I found almost painful to read; poor beknighted Sean!; I kept thinking of the trial scene in the old A Man for All Seasons film, when Sir Thomas More (Paul Scofield) has just been betrayed to his death by Richard Rich (John Hurt), who is desperate to Be Somebody, and has perjured himself to become the attorney general of Wales. I always loved Richard Rich (a testimony to Hurt's acting and genuine human appeal), and felt so sorry for him; yet he was a dangerous and pathetic man. More has a great line, which he speaks wryly but with sympathy, "Why Richard, it profits a man nothing to give his soul for the whole world... but for Wales?" I think, in his book, Sean Astin sounds more like the character of Richard Rich than anyone else I can think of.

It's a shame how much time Sean spent with really talented, really interesting, really enjoyable people and failed to enjoy it himself, so obsessed was he with trying to second-guess their motives and attitudes towards them, and especially trying to figure out how they got their "power." He seems lost to both intense envy and intense, worshipful admiration for those he thinks have power, and for how they wield it. Trying to get and exert power seems to overwhelm and consume him (good thing he never got the Ring!!!). He is obsessed by the desire for it while, at the same time, he feels robbed of it, or kept from it. ("It could have been mine; it should have been mine, but by unhappy chance!")

Sean Astin in public office? "Save us, Mr. Frodo, noooo!" This man will not ever run for public office (and win) -- unless he converts his political loyalties and runs as a Republican. :cool:

He plays at "humility" over and over, but it is not genuine. It's just a profilactic protestation, I think. Although he constantly opens with self-effacing pronouncements, that he's-not-worthy, he's-not-in-their-league, etc., these seem to me to be attempts to demonstrate to the readers that he's onto himself, that whatever we think, he's thought of it first (*whip whip whip* -- such showy self-flagellations!) -- but really they are meant to give him carte blanche to say whatever he feels like. "See? I have admitted I'm pathetic, so that gives me permission to spew like this." But it's merely a device, I suspect. I still have half the book to go, so I do not say that with final assurance.

But the things he says! My jaw dropped, reading his dismissal of an artist like John Howe. In black and white! I pictured Howe (or Alan Lee or Peter Jackson or Richard Taylor, all of whom he seems to worship) reading that and really feeling p***ed off -- except John H. would more likely be thinking what a total jerk Sean must be to have said it in print. He does this over and over. When he isn't practically kissing someone's *** with over-the-top praise and adoration, he's undercutting them with dismissive remarks about how he's as good as they are or could be or should be. His assessments seem to swing from delusions of grandeur to abject, flamboyant, attention-getting self-abasement -- with nothing in between -- about others and about himself.

Edited to add: Looking at some more of the book, it occurred to me that Sean could have said almost everything he did -- all the overweening I'm-envious-and-jealous-and-unappreciated true confessions -- and gotten away with it IF he had done it with a sense of humour. I read through a paragraph and re-imagined the same thoughts written by a person with a sharp, self-aware sense of humour, and it actually might have worked. But Sean, in his writing, takes himself so absolutely seriously. *Sigh* I do just love his work as Sam. I will be sorry to think that people will not want to work with him after reading this. And I am sorry, most of all, that he revealed himself so pitifully to the very people whose good opinion he most salivated to win.

How I wish this had never been published.


:(

I'll get on the site and refresh it over and over (until a kind friend sent me the files for all of our LOTR friends' welcomes). It has become my little game to see how quickly I can get Elijah!

Achilla, me too! :D

On one of the fan sites I found a sound file of His Lijness giving the AOL mail greeting; I've set up my outlook mail so it announces the arrival of new messages in his dulcent tones. (Ugh! That is sooooo geeky! Oh well, I'm proud to be a geek.)

In fact I've always found Elijah's voice to be one of the most attractive things about him.

Serena, I agree completely! Simply beautiful, and at least as expressive as face, eyes, hands, etc. I loved listening to him read on that Holocaust site recently. Such a gourgeous voice, and lovely diction as well.

I confess to also having a soft spot for that geeky giggle, too! :rolleyes:

I saw a movie this weekend whose title I won't mention, (really, really too old for movies like that; next one may just kill me!) Anyway. The actress (whose name I won't mention, but she shoulda stuck to the small screen) had precisely two facial expressions: "blank" and "worried" which she indicated by squinching her brow. She shifted from one to the other with as much subtelty as flipping a switch. Big Broad emotions which a even the subtlety-challenged could have read like braille.

Made me ever so grateful to His Lijness for all those lovely micro-expressions! And oh so sad for all those poor film critics who are so accustomed to Big Broad emotions that they can't see the beautiful way in which himself plays his characters' emotions with such delicacy.

Because they really are missing out on a moving experience. He makes me want to leap off the couch and bar the door every time I watch him striding purposefully about Bag End looking for a place to hide that ring!



Flourish and Achilla, I'm looking forward to our day in New York! :k :k

honey!

I was watching, "10 things I hate About You" and watched the scene where Heath Ledger does a song and dance.

Then I realized something: it was as a pleasant as Elijah Singing, "You are my Sunshine" in "Forever Young." The voices are a matched set, full of Manliness and Pleasant Swoonworthiness. :eek: Plus both are funny, sweet, handsome, and entertaining guys. Am I right about this? :confused:

As far as Sean's book goes, can Elijah's rebuttal book be far behind? :lol:

How funny is this? :confused:

Edited to add: Looking at some more of the book, it occurred to me that Sean could have said almost everything he did -- all the overweening I'm-envious-and-jealous-and-unappreciated true confessions -- and gotten away with it IF he had done it with a sense of humour. I read through a paragraph and re-imagined the same thoughts written by a person with a sharp, self-aware sense of humour, and it actually might have worked.


I couldn't agree more on the sense of humour. I read Sean's book and then went straight on to Andy Serkis's book 'The Making of Gollum'. He writes more in the style you suggest, and it was like a breath of fresh air. I came out of it feeling I could happily spend time in Mr Serkis's company, whereas I wouldn't last 5 minutes with Sean. As for his political aspirations, I saw a clip of him being interviewed on his views, and he seemed totally unable to put his ideas across in a logical, clear way. Much like the book really! Hopefully, if he ever does try to run for office, his book will keep coming back to haunt him, and his endeavours will be unsuccessful.

I can't remember where in the book it comes, but he says something to the effect that as a child he was told he could become anything he wanted, even president of the USA. I got the feeling that deep down, he still believes that. He is a good actor, but appears to think that being an actor is somehow inferior to being a film maker. This attitude in itself then becomes another snub to his fellow actors, like Elijah and Ian McKellern, who seem to consider acting a craft to be continually learned and honed.

Achila wrote:

And the funny thing about his voice, too, is that no matter how filthy his language is (and it can be VERY, as you all know), it never seems like he's saying anything bad (at least to me, that is!).
I’m glad you said that, because I feel the same way. Maybe it’s just because he comes across as such an endearing guy that the bad language doesn’t seem vicious – plus, we know that he’s a lot brighter than the four-letter words might otherwise suggest.

And thank you for that link, Achila! I didn’t know about that one. (I confess that I went back several times to the website where he reads the children’s book, just for the voice. Well, OK -- and also because he looked particularly adorable there.)

honeyelf wrote:

Such a gourgeous voice, and lovely diction as well.
The diction is particularly striking, I think. Even in non-Frodo roles, he enunciates more clearly than many US actors do (especially young ones). You hear those consonants.

One more thing about lovely speech: for me, one of his loveliest moments is the voiceover he does at Bag End, near the end of RotK (“How do you take up the threads of an old life?” etc.). It’s done with a blend of deep feeling and restraint – just what you would expect of Frodo.

Happy Monday, all,

A few further comments about Sean's book, since I read it in one go last weekend and am currently almost finished with the audio book. For those of you who are on the fence about reading it, get the CDs instead. The book comes across much better in audio format, mostly because a lot of confusing details (particularly at the beginning, where he goes back and forth from subject to subject) are removed.

My personal picture of Sean is a little different from some of yours, it would appear. All the time I was reading it (and listening too), I kept saying, "Oh Sean....Oh Sean." It made me sad to think that this sweet, lovely man is so insecure and has such hangups about personal relationships. He's needy. He constantly seeks approval and affirmation about who he is and what he's doing. And his interpersonal relationships suffer because of it. I kept thinking that if he calmed down and stopped expecting so much out of other people's reaction to him, he'd have a far better time of it. And I couldn't help but connect this with all the glowing accolades ladled on Elijah, from industry greats like Christopher Lee and Ian Holm. You heard few of them reap that kind of love on Sean, and I believe that 90% of that is due to the fact that Elijah is just so much easier to be around and demands so much less (in fact, nothing) from his relationships with them. When you're in a relationship with someone as needy as Sean, it's a drain and it ruins any objective feelings you might have about their talent and their work.

But I would remind everyone that although Sean "wrote" this, he himself has said that because of the use of an assistant (Joe Leyden), there were some mistakes he would like to go back and correct. My take is that he he either was not shown the final galleys for his approval or he corrected them and his edits were not used.

In any case, I urge a bit of compassion on all our parts. He's "family", after all.

Honey, you're gonna have to teach me how to do that trick with the "You've Got Mail" thing for Outlook!

I was looking back through TORn's archives trying to find their recent news item about Sean apologizing to fans for the unintentionally grating tone of his book--I didn't come up with exactly what I was looking for, but this quote from a Boston book signing (printed in the Boston Herald) is even more to the point since his political aspirations were mentioned above.

Astin is Sam with a plan: he wants to direct, produce, even run for Congress one day. Yet his book lays out his anxieties, mistakes and missteps as well as successes.

``The truth is I've had extraordinary advantages laid before me so it seems almost kind of unfair for me to appropriate this `pull-yourself-up by the bootstraps' narrative,'' he said. ``But that's the way it felt.''

Astin confirms the various stories circulating about LOTR actors' camaraderies and dedication, with his own twists. Like how Viggo Mortensen so thoroughly lived his role as Aragorn that he hounded director Peter Jackson with suggestions. Or how Astin tangled with Andy Serkis when Gollum's stand-in pulled off Sam's wig in a too-real scene.

He happily pulls down his thick sock to display the Elvish tattoo that almost all the Fellowship actors got to seal their bond. But he admitted he hadn't even heard of Tolkien before the movie.

His book ``is as honest as it could be. It's not comprehensive. But it is honest. And it's maybe a little more abrasive than I wanted it to be,'' he said.

Even if superstardom has eluded him, ``I don't think I'm ready to let go yet of the idea that I could carry motion pictures,'' Astin said. ``I think there's precedent in Hollywood for leading men to not conform to traditional standards of good looks and sex appeal. You think of Jimmy Cagney or Tom Hanks.''

At least, that's the plan. He noted humorously, however, that the editors had packed his book with Orlando Bloom pictures.

The part about being abrasive is what I recalled from TORn--I'll keep looking for the rest of it because I believe he had a little more to say about that in another interview.

As for how much influence his editor/co-writer had, my guess is that given who Sean is, it was minimal. Celebrity authors are given pretty much carte blanche, and it's only their (assumed) inability to organize their thoughts and keep from inadvertently slandering or libeling somebody that requires a professional writer in the mix.

Another point to consider, not that it excuses him by a long shot, is that there are signs the book--like all such eagerly-timed enterprises--was rushed through. Lots of writing and editing errors that should have been picked up were missed. So he may not have had a lot of opportunities to reflect on what he was saying. NOT that it excuses him! It's safe to assume he'd been thinking about it long before he put pen to paper. Or should have been.

I thought at first that when he talked about himself as being one of Hollywood's greats that he was trying to say, "Look how deluded I was at the time, look what I was thinking when I should have gone with the flow and enjoyed the whole thing like Christine and Elijah kept telling me to. What an opportunity I missed!" Mechtild, you don't think so? I have to go look again--I still haven't finished it.

Honey, I'm looking forward to! zkgrumpy, can't we tempt you?! :D


EDITED to add--of course I found it as soon as I posted. Here it is, a fan report from the book signing in Huntington, Long Island on 10/17 (in case you want to go find it at TORn and read the whole thing--I quote only the part I referenced above but there's more (are we allowed to link to TORn?)--

I read on TheOneRing.net or one of the other sites, why I didn't write more about Sean Bean. I have nothing but love and affection for all the actors and all the cast and crew from the movie. The book, because it is in ink, it might seem to be authoritative or definitive about my feelings of some people, it is not. It is just some thoughts that occurred to me while I was writing them down, I hold them in the highest esteem and have great affection, particularly Ian McKellen and Peter Jackson. I hope people are not put off by the fact that I took the bold gesture of putting this out there. I am proud of it, it is honest, but it also is a little more abrasive then I probably would of ["have"--eek] liked it for it to be, so I want to apologize to the fans for this.

Achila, you are very kind. I think one of the reasons why I wish Sean had not published this book (as Mechtild says -- lovely post, dear!) is because he does not come across well, for whatever reason. He's like the kid watching the other kids play outside, pressing his nose against the glass and wondering how come he can't have as much fun. Here were Viggo and Ian being strong advocates for their characters (plus horsing around), here was Elijah just wanting to do the best he could. I've posted this before, but I adore the quote and wanted to share it again:

from a KRON-4 Morning News interview in San Francisco:
Q: Who was your guiding light? Who propped you up on those days you were like, 'Jesus Christ, this is a mountain I'm climbing'?

PJ: Well, my partner Fran Walsh, who's one of the producers on the film, and co-wrote the script, she was wonderful. And the actors actually were incredibly supportive -- like Elijah, who was filming virtually every day for eighteen months, he was on camera a lot, and Elijah's just so bubbly and he's so optimistic and he's such a great guy, I never heard one negative word from Elijah the whole time. And often on the days that I'd turn up being being really tired, thinking, oh my god, am I going to be able to get through the day? the first person I'd see is Elijah, saying, 'Okay, Peter, great, let's go!' and he would immediately buoy you back up.
To get philosophical, it goes back to "in order to." Sean seemed to be acting or filming "in order to" get something -- accolades, acceptance, whatever. Elijah wasn't acting "in order to" get anything other just doing the best acting job he could. So it's no surprise that Elijah is going to be happier with the outcome (and with his life while doing it) than someone who is focused on the result, which is a totally other thing and completely beyond the person's control. Sean can control his acting. He can't control whether he gets nominations or recognition. It really makes me :( for him.

Skater girl, I appreciated your post as well. I could see (not being a Hollywood person) how rigidly hierarchical the Hollywood society is. Yes, most actors are considered dirt compared to film-makers, just as writers are dirt compared to actors. (Writers are the weakest, lowest-status group of them all!) There is definitely a hierarchy. The smart actors and filmmakers know they need a really good script to get a great movie, but most people will take the script as the jump-off point and endlessly change it. You might end up with something altogether different from the initial vision. (Which can be a good thing. I read the original script for Romancing the Stone - :eek: What a horror that was!) But that's the attitude -- the writing will stink, that's a given, so it must be improved. And actors must do what the director says, or they get fired! But if you happen to love writing or love acting, you'll do what you love, even though you aren't the biggest fish in the pond. Everyone has a share of vexation. The trick is finding how to be happy, between all the vexing things! :p

I wish Sean the best, I truly do. I just wish he hadn't gone public at this time, given his apparent state of incomplete understanding.

For anyone like Mechtild who wants to start at the Lij parts of Sean's book, go directly to page 111. Not that I would have that memorized!

from honeyelf
He makes me want to leap off the couch and bar the door every time I watch him striding purposefully about Bag End looking for a place to hide that ring!
You and me both, Honey!

ETA: Simul-posted with you, Flourish! Thank you for the Sean quotes. This one got me curious:
He noted humorously, however, that the editors had packed his book with Orlando Bloom pictures.
Was it packed? (I didn't notice.) So, I counted! Here's what I got:
19 - Sean
9 - Orlando
8 - Billy, Elijah
7 - Ally (daughter)
6 - Dom
3 - Christine (wife)
1 each - PJ, Liv, Viggo, Ian M, scale doubles

So Orlando does appear to be the big winner, after Sean! I suppose that one might argue that, as a non-hobbit, Orlando deserved only one picture, as did the other non-hobbits on the project. But 6 of his were group shots, with other cast members in them. He gets 2 buddy shots with Sean (the last is Orli and Ally). Elijah gets 3 buddy shots with Sean, the rest of his are groups. Does that make Elijah and Orlando equally good buddies? And what's the story with Dom? Why is he 2 pictures short? :p And what's the deal with Ally. She's cute, but is she being exploited? (Kids sell!)

Seriously, I'm not drawing any conclusions. Sean's remark just made me curious, is all. And now, a glimpse into my own silly brain: What I always found personally amusing about the cover is that, out of all the pictures Sean might have chosen, the one that ended up on the cover is a fairly well-known shot where Frodo and Sam are looking up the Secret Stair. Only, Frodo has been cropped out! Yes, it's a good picture of Sean in character (and a great one of Frodo, :p), but was it the very best one? It struck me as strange that my cover has poor Frodo's snipped-off shoulder on it, the rest of him cropped away. As if to say, "Hey, look at me -- the guy beside the hobbit with the big eyes. That's me!" :p Oh, well, who knows who really picked that shot. But as an Elijah fan, having him deliberately snipped-out to further emphasize his companion went against the grain.

Flourish (Hi! Your wrist looks improved. :) ), you said,

I thought at first that when he talked about himself as being one of Hollywood's greats that he was trying to say, "Look how deluded I was at the time, look what I was thinking when I should have gone with the flow and enjoyed the whole thing like Christine and Elijah kept telling me to. What an opportunity I missed!" Mechtild, you don't think so? I have to go look again--I still haven't finished it.
I think he said that in about every paragraph; "Why couldn't I just enjoy this?" I think that is a real sentiment and a valid self-criticism. If he were writing this as a sadder-but-wiser, self-deprecating but humorous memoire, it would be perfect. But so far, my impression is that he still is not sadder-but-wiser. He is only sadder, not wiser.

Although he is able to look back and see what he did (blew off so much opportunity to enjoy what he was doing WHILE he was doing it, as well as the opportunity to enjoy and appreciate the people he worked with WHILE he was working with them), he still does not seem able to see what he is doing. That is, his hindsight is 20-20, but, in the present, he cannot see he hasn't changed. As he writes about his past, he demonstrates, in the present as he writes this, ALL the same ravenous need for attention (Achila), the need that he be seen as having the same stature as an artist on a par with other celebrated artists (Mariole) and a sense that he, too, is a man of power and influence (Mechtild), on an equal footing with other powerful, influential men.

So, yes, Flourish, I think he clearly says, "I was sadly deluded, then" -- but his book reveals (non-stop, so far) that he STILL is deluded; that he still is in thrall, blindly, to all the same stuff -- and that's what makes it so sad, and so potentially damaging to him. If he were "over" all that, the book would be merely confessional. And, humorously told, it would have been endearing; he'd be our respresentative "little guy who tried." But since he is unchanged in his obsessions, it is painful to witness, instead.

I also agree that the editor could not have had that much power. He had good enough credits; if the editor had done adequate work on this book, at least the actual writing would have had to have been better than it is.

Mariole, I agree with what you said about how part of his unhappiness is in not being able to see what he does so well [acting] as fitting, mertitorious and satisfying in itself. It is a means to an end, an end he apparently burns for and doesn't see himself as attaining. And that ties in to what Skater Girl said, by extension; this dismissive attitude toward the craft of acting might ooze out and it would seem to other actors that Sean thought their work, as such, comparatively inferior and unworthy.

I was very unhappy with those sections where he consciously is praising Sir Ian and Elijah for what he sees as their greater skill in getting what they want from Peter. I felt as though Sean's own cravings in that area coloured his presentation of the other artists. Of course, they would be keen to improve their peformances and their roles -- which would help their careers. But I thought by framing it the way he did, Sean portrayed the others as being as driven as he was to prevail and to Make His Mark, almost primarily for the sake of showing he was able to do so. He's a talented, accomplished actor! Judging from the little short he made, he should stick to acting. What a shame Sean can't take adequate pride and pleasure in what he actually is so suited to do and does so well.

P.S. Mariole, p. 111? Let me just thumb ahead..... :k

Just a quick thanks to the Faculty for all the informative and insightful posts lately. I have been reading avidly, though, alas, still have no time to post. The posts concerning SA's book are the most interesting.

Ariel

Thanks for explaining, Mech. (Wrist is not much better but I'm just impatient with it now. Some topics draw me out, you know....) ;)

"Sadder but not wiser" perfectly describes Sean's self-pitying tone well, I agree. Too bad!

But the writer--now, he may well have done what he could and been overruled. Celebrity privilege again, you know.

I also wanted to say that Mariole's point about Sean being wrapped up in the results more than the process was very astute.

Although he is able to look back and see what he did (blew off so much opportunity to enjoy what he was doing WHILE he was doing it, as well as the opportunity to enjoy and appreciate the people he worked with WHILE he was working with them), he still does not seem able to see what he is doing.
Well, you have to be able to do the first before you can do the second. Then you have to get to the point where you recognize something you don't want to do before you do it. It can be a years-long process. It's too bad if he let himself be rushed, or rushed the project himself, for fear the iron wouldn't stay hot, instead of taking the time he needed to reflect on the experience.

He's a talented, accomplished actor! Judging from the little short he made, he should stick to acting. What a shame Sean can't take adequate pride and pleasure in what he actually is so suited to do and does so well.
His Academy Award nomination was as a director and producer, so there must be some talent there :) . I don't think I'd judge his ability from "The Long and Short of It" (and I hope he didn't, although it sounds as if he did), which everyone else seems to have approached as just a bit of fun.

But he took the acting job, and was excited about it when he did, so it's too bad if he couldn't enjoy it while he was doing it, even if he wanted to get back to directing. When LotR started, it had been only a few years since his Oscar nomination; now it's been 10. I hope he doesn't feel as if he made the wrong decision--taking a long-term acting job instead of trying to follow up on his producing/directing recognition. He's certainly taken on a lot of acting jobs since LotR; I hope he can enjoy them instead of looking at his current path as a substitute for what he really wanted to do.

I wonder if there wasn't something of a "big fish in a small pond" effect, moving from smaller projects where he had much more say, to finding himself as just one piece of this massive undertaking. P.J. wasn't a "titan in the industry," either, when the project began--it was LotR that made him one--so at that time it wouldn't have been quite so delusional of Sean to think he should have been on something of an equal footing, IMHO.

---------------------

ETA

from Flourish:
I also wanted to say that Mariole's point about Sean being wrapped up in the results more than the process was very astute.
Ah, another strong "J" on the Myers-Briggs scale, eh? :p It's my strongest characteristic there, even above "I", which is kind of surprising. I'm trying to learn to "go with the flow" and "enjoy the experience," but it ain't easy.

hallo all!!!

did i understand this right??
can i get elijahs voice to say you got mail????
I have post program, ingredimail, there is a voice wich
sas Welcome and it comes a butler who sas you got mail madam!! can i get elijah voice to do that insteed??

You got to be kidding me :) how?????? please!!!!!!!! :k

love/wood

from tgshaw
P.J. wasn't a "titan in the industry," either, when the project began
This is precisely why I wonder if Sean wasn't being funny, only it came across as serious in print. He could easily have a great deal of tongue-in-cheek remarks in there that come out as serious, because we don't know his personality and don't know how he means them. It's a problem! (for the reader, anyway)

I was actually intending to be a little philosophical regarding the "in order to" stuff. It's all that striving that leads to such grief here in samsara (my apologies for my amateur grasp of the Buddhist material). If you want to do X in order to achieve Y, you're going to be unhappy. But if you do X just to do X, you're happy! In other words, just act (happily and vigorously, as so many of the cast did), and anything else will happen as it does. Some people got awards, others got recognition (Orlando, anybody? :p) -- but their happiness wasn't based on that. (I'm making a sweeping generalization here as if everyone else was happy, which isn't necessarily true. I have no idea if they were. But from Sean's report, it sounds as if many of them were happier than he was. Poor buddy! :( )

Good evening Faculty,

I have been thoroughly enjoying the discussions on Sean's book.

Mariole, He sees his short movie "The Long and Short of It" as an endorsement of his directing abilities, when everyone was just good-humored enough to go along for laughs. This was not a great film.

I watch the "making of" that short since it is far better and it is one of the few opportunities to see Elijah as himself while enjoying an opportunity to help Sean and clown around with his friends.

Mariole, For anyone like Mechtild who wants to start at the Lij parts of Sean's book, go directly to page 111. Not that I would have that memorized!

Pg. 111? I'm at that moment in the book, chapter seven. But my Lij parts don't start until pg. 123! My book (graciously loaned by HoneyElf) is a hardcover. What caught my eye is the number 111. Has anyone else ever heard that if you see the number one in a series like that, it means there are angels near? :z:

Elijah, 111, an angel on earth!!! I'd say that's a match. :D

OM(beneficent deity, indeed)! Guess what's happening here in little ol' Omaha in February? The Symphony!! No idea if Mr. Shore will be here (pretty sure he won't be conducting, as that would be listed in the program). But... still... :z: :z:

Only problem is, you have to be an Omaha Symphony season ticket holder to buy advance tickets--and I'm sure there won't be anything left by concert night. But I'm checking out some possible ways around, over or through that roadblock. There's no way I'm going to miss this in Omaha! And they're having it in the right place--a historic opera house that's been turned into a concert hall, a beautiful place with fantastic acoustics, and not too far from where I live.

I just found this out this afternoon, so don't know all the details, but if there's anyone close enough to Omaha who might want to come, let me know!

What caught my eye is the number 111. Has anyone else ever heard that if you see the number one in a series like that, it means there are angels near? :z:
I haven't heard that--it just made me think of eleventy-first birthday parties :D .

Just popping in to say thanks to honeyelf for the "You've Got Mail" tip. It's all set up and working great. The only problem is that the sudden male voice in the quiet room startles the crap out of me every time! Oh dear -- what a problem -- LOL!

I read the original script for Romancing the Stone - :eek: What a horror that was!

Funny thing is, that the final script for Romancing the Stone is now taught in screenwriting classes as being one of the best examples of a solid script. The characters can all be described as certain types, but transcend that type; the important characters are all developed well by the end of the story; the character types balance each other out (evil baddie/humorous baddies, seemingly bold but eventually incompetent ditzy ingenue/wallflower-who-becomes-a-heroine, etc.); and progression of the story (opening prologue to put you slightly fantastic feel of the film--much like PJ's intentions with the trilogy's openings, introductions and plot set-up, the meat of the plot, the climax, and the denoument, or epilogue, that explains what happens to everyone).

It really is an entertaining movie that hits on all the important movie types/cliches in an inventive and fun way! (Now, I want to buy the DVD...)

Tg, you must see this symphony. I saw it in Seattle, and instantly wanted to see it again. It was so moving! I think, in certain cases, violence is warranted. If you can't get a ticket, hang outside the concert hall with a heavy cloak and a hanky of chloroform, and take what is rightfully yours. In a kind way, of course.

Sharpe's Girl, no argument from me. The final version of Romancing the Stone is brilliant! But I bought an early draft at a con -- you would not believe how bad it was. The delightful word play isn't there, it was this dark icky piece centering on the bad guy -- Really bad! I remember reading it and thinking, How did they get from there to here? :p

Achila, I can't have any sound turned on my computer. I scream!

Shelbyshire, how odd!!! I just double-checked, and it is indeed on page 111 in my hardcover book (really Serena's hard-covered book! :k) that Sean first meets Elijah during (as we all know) the wig-fitting episode. I can only suppose that different printers must be using different typefaces. My version was printed in Britain.

Has anyone else ever heard that if you see the number one in a series like that, it means there are angels near?
Near? They're all over the page! Here are some quotes from Sean:

Elijah was exactly what I thought he'd be: small, not quite waifish, and friendly. He's a little shorter than I am, and substantially thinner. ... Wide-eyed and almost elfin in appearance, with an earnestness that few actors can project, he was perfect for the role of Frodo.

"Are you ready for this?" I asked him.
He looked right at me, almost through me, with those impossibly blue, almost alien eyes, and smiled. "Yeah... I am." ...
There was an intensity to him, an honesty, that I found inspiring...
There's more about Elijah vs. Sean's career. It's fun! Cheers.

Mariole, My version was printed in Britain.

The one I have was printed in the U.S. So for those books, it's pg. 123, that's where the good part begins (The One Lad).

Mariole, Tg, you must see this symphony. I saw it in Seattle, and instantly wanted to see it again. It was so moving!

I was in Seattle too when I saw it. When The Grey Havens began, I literally could not breathe for the remainder of the concert and had this intense emotional feeling deep inside me. I did not want it to end for one and I had this awesome feeling that it was all so real right there and then. The music, the story, everything.

I do believe that FRODO LIVES!

FRODO LIVES

Shelbyshire, I agree!

Poor Sean. In a big article in today's NYTimes much is made of the growing trend for actors to gain and lose dramatic amounts of weight for movie roles. Renee Zellweger ("Bridget Jones's Diary") and Christian Bale ("The Machinist") are prominently featured in the story, which also hearkens back to Adrian Brophy ("The Pianist"), Charlize Theron ("Monster"), and even Robert De Niro who started it all (1980's "Raging Bull").

But Sean's not even mentioned for his weight gain as Sam.

Welcome Eli monkey,
:)

I was about to ask you the same questions Tg just asked. :p
Picture...Elijah...Pearl? Where? In the harem perhaps (I haven't checked yet)
What does 'craic' mean?
Is that some sort of 'dialect'? Where are you from? (if you don't mind me asking this...I'm from Flanders, Belgium).

Eli monkey,
Again, forgive me if I'm too nosey but can I ask you how long you've been a fan of Elijah Wood? When did the 'EJW magic' kick in? Before LOTR, during those release years or only just? What was the 'turning point'?
I was a fan before the LOTR trilogy. The first movie I really noticed him in was "Forever Young". That movie didn't make me a 'big' fan straight away. IMHO, the movie is fun and all that but not that excellent. But, it was clear to me that he was a cut above most child actors. The appreciation for his acting skills grew gradually.

----------

I can't say that I listened to John Peel. :o We can't listen to the BBC radio here (except the world service, I believe) and I don't have the tendency to listen to the radio on the internet (except during my lunch break at work).
John Peel seemed to have a massive influence on the music industry with an ear for excellent new talent.
His radio show has such a fantastic reputation.
Serena, I agree...Just by watching what they said about him on the news yesterday made it clear that being asked to replace him during his holiday must have been quite an honour for Elijah Wood.

-----------

Tg,

That last Frodo screencap... :)
Beautiful

A warm welcome Eli Monkey!! :)
Hope you will enyoy it here as much
as i do!!!! ;)

I have too agree WHAT PICTURE??????? :eek: :(

Sorry to hear about John Peel.I can`t say i heard
him. But sorry any way!!

TG,lovely screencap as always!!!!! :k :k

Eli Monkey,i too is curios!!! I´m from sweden!!
And i saw Elijah for the first time in Deep Impact.
But it wasen`t untill LOTR came,and since then i am totally
lost!!!!! :p :D :lol:

Love/Wood

Some proper Hobbit bows for Ezzie--Happy Birthday!

http://www.imagemagician.com/images/tgshaw/RotK/TPDVD_11460.jpg

With the lack of much news, here are some encouraging, comforting, and heartwarming comments about Pixar, taken from a current Time article. The article's about the Pixar movie that's being released now--The Incredibles, but IMVHO it says something about the company itself.

From Brad Bird, who directed The Incredibles:
"Oftentimes people call animation a genre, and that's completely wrong. It's a medium that can express any genre. I often think people stress the technology too much. The heart of the matter is still characters."

From John Lasseter, Pixar's creative director:
Computer-animated movies were still theoretical back in 1975, when Bird, now 48, and Lasseter, 47, met as freshmen at California Institute of the Arts. "Brad and I were in the first year of the character-animation program," recalls Lasseter, "and we bonded with our love of cartoons. At that time animation was thought of as something just for children. But Brad and I believed animation was for everybody. That's the way Walt Disney made his films. That's the way Chuck Jones made his cartoons."

That wasn't the way the Disney studio was making them in the late '70s. "When Brad and I both went to Disney, we had this fire in our bellies to do great animation. But the creative vision of the studio was more concerned about control than the potential of the films."

From one of Bird's assistants:
"There's a tremendous amount of pressure here... But it's a wonderful kind of pressure because it's not about winning. It's about making a movie as great as you can. Not good. Not very good. Great."

Craig T. Nelson, who's the voice of "Mr. Incredible":
"These guys haven't become jaded. They maintain a filmmaking sense that's fun, kinetic and spontaneous."

And a final one from Brad Bird:
"Pixar films are personal passion projects. They are not concocted by a focus group or somebody saying this latest trend is important: 'People like kangaroos, hip-hop is hot, so let's have a hip-hop kangaroo. Grab three animators, they're all interchangeable, have them direct. Get five sitcom writers and throw them in there.'"

I hate to stop on a negative note (even if it's positive toward Pixar :) ), so here's another statement from the reporter who wrote the article:
Even Pixar needs real actors sometimes--not always the big stars courted by rival DreamWorks for its Shrek and Shark Tale hits, but gifted, lower-wattage voice artists like Nelson (TV's Coach), who can appreciate the Pixar culture.
Personal passion... Fun, kinetic and spontaneous... The heart of the matter is still characters... gifted, lower-wattage voice artists who can appreciate the Pixar culture... Not Good. Not very good. Great.

--Excited about penguins? Hey, I'm getting there. :D

BTW, the article does talk quite a bit about Pixar's contributions to technology, too, and when it does it reminds me of Weta: If they want to do something that's never been done, they don't say, "That can't be done." They figure out how to do it. -- And have a sense of humor about it. They wanted to give Mr. Incredible's daughter long hair, but whenever they'd try to animate her head turning her hair would fly off her head :D . The message that came up on the computer was, "Dammit! Long hair is still theoretical!" (But in the picture that accompanies the article, she has long hair ;) .) They also spent three months getting the fabric right for one shot where Mr. Incredible puts his finger through a hole in his superhero costume. They were also the first group of computer animators who were able to make water "move" the way it really does in the ocean--in Finding Nemo; Hmmm.... penguins like to swim a lot... :) .

-----------

These "clicks for Moggy" are getting dangerous. I actually want one of these :rolleyes: :

http://www.imagemagician.com/images/tgshaw/CoE/Parking.gif

(Hoping someone else posts before I find anything more, 'cause I've edited this post so often already... :rolleyes: )

Sorry, Elwen and TG, but I know the person who wrote that doesn't want it distributed and linked to her name, so I've deleted your posts until I can ask her if she minds them being here. I will restore your posts later if she is OK with it.

:k

Edit: She got back to me and does prefer that her work not be posted here. She'll be contacting both of you when she has a chance to, because it's important to her that you understand why. More :k :k all around. :)

My sister-in-law knows just how much of a LOTR "geek" I am. They also know that I have approached it in a way that I do study and research on the story and I do read alot about Tolkien himself. She is Catholic, as am I, and she subscribed to the newsletter, Keeping it Catholic, just for me to get their edition which featured a Catholic study guide for Return of the King. There is quite a lot in it. I have not begun to really read it. Of course, :) I always scan for that familiar word - Frodo. This is the description for him:

-FRODO. The second Christ-like figure of the trilogy. Frodo bears the office of "Lamb of God," the Victim. In the person of Frodo the Hobbit, the Quest parallels the life and Passion of Christ. Like Our Lord, Frodo is an unknown, born in a small and humble place. Like Our Lord, he willingly carries a terrible burden in order to save the world, and he "falls" three times before he is overcome by his Cross (the One Ring). Similiar to Christ Who still bears the Passion's Wounds in His glorified body, Frodo carries the "spiritual" wounds inflicted upon him during the Quest. The "failure of Frodo" was inevitable and yet, as Tolkien wrote, he "deserved all honor because he spent every drop of his power of will and body" to resist and destroy the Ring. To attain total healing before the natural end of his life, Frodo (together with Bilbo), departs for the Grey Havens.

I am curious what they consider the three "falls"...

I hope I am not crossing any lines with the religious references.

**I need to learn to post pics!! Guess who's car in the attachment??** There's more pics. PM for the website since I'm not sure if I can post it...

**I couldn't resist adding one more pic!!**

Okay, Shelbyshire, I'll bite! Three falls:

1. Weathertop/Wiki (Frodo almost dies)
2. Shelob (Frodo actually thought dead)
3. Mt. Doom (Frodo cannot rise, so Samwise carries him -- sniff! Like Simon the Cyrene helped Jesus to carry the Cross)

Another fall could be after the cave troll spears him, and Aragorn thinks Frodo is dead for a brief time. But it doesn't carry the same weight as the others. What do you think?

Interesting discussion! Hmm, how to bring this on-topic? Elijah Wood portrayed all these scenes in the movie! *glances shiftily for the mod*

Interesting discussion! Hmm, how to bring this on-topic? Elijah Wood portrayed all these scenes in the movie! *glances shiftily for the mod*

Oops! that fact slipped my mind! *thinking that maybe the mod can be distracted* **I know, ask a question...**

How many posts do you have to post before you get that box up by the number of posts posted? I noticed I have "one" now. Imagine that! ;)

*thinking that maybe the mod can be distracted*


Not likely. :p :D

We do allow a fair amount of Elijah - Frodo crossover, but a full-blown "Frodo as Christ" discussion would fit better in the Green Dragon, where the focus is on the books exclusively. The The Heart, Mind, and Soul of Frodo (http://www.khazaddum.com/forums/showthread.php?p=222133#post222133) thread would do nicely, though someone could actually start a new one on the specific topic to entice people to join in as well. :)

I won't mod anyone for a short discussion here, though - it only needs to be moved if it's going to get long and involved, or if other members of the thread are uncomfortable with the topic.

Elijah Wood getting a ticket.

How funny is this?

Plus the car was fugly.

A couple of notes on modding (no problem, Narya :k )

--Since I've had some questions about it, the post of mine that got deleted was just one where I quoted what I thought were some of the funniest lines from the one Elwen posted. The "sample abstract" that I posted on the previous page is still there, because that's from a completely different source--it actually is a sample abstract from a scientific group that was holding a conference in New Zealand. (Almost every group like that will post and/or mail out a "sample abstract" to show those who are submitting reports how they want them formatted. But this is the first time I've seen a creative one :p .) I don't remember the organization's name but I have its website bookmarked on my office computer, so I can identify it on Monday.

-- :rolleyes: I know I'm a "voice crying in the wilderness" (for a Biblical parallel ;) ), but I again begs anyone who wants to discuss book-Frodo to go to the Green Dragon for it--for a couple of reasons. First, it's my favorite form of entertainment, but because I do love it so much, I don't like to get into it here because I "tend" :o to get rather involved. In the Green Dragon, I'll jump in with both feet. Second, there are people who don't come into the Community Cafe (hard as that may be to believe :eek: ) who have a lot to add to book-related discussions, and if it's in the Green Dragon they'll find it.

So, for the minimum that I feel is necessary in response to what Shelbyshire posted: IMO, some fundamentalist Christians and traditional Catholics pretty blithely cross the line between applicability and allegory when it comes to Tolkien's writings. But whoever wrote this piece seems to understand the difference, by the use of the word "Christ-[i]like" and saying there are "parallels"--If someone says they personally see parallels between Frodo and Christ, that's perfectly acceptable applicability. But to say that Frodo is a Christ figure or, even worse, to say that Tolkien intended him to be a Christ figure, would be flat-out wrong. (And I don't think those are the falls they're alluding to--I believe I've seen this idea before, some years ago, actually. Think book, not movies.)

----------

P.S. Shelbyshire, the green boxes don't represent number of posts; they represent the "reputation points" other members have given you when they particularly like one of your posts. (If you want to give a reputation point to someone else, click on the little balance at the top of the post you admired.) Another reason to post in other forums ;) -- You have to "spread yourself around" as far as giving reputation points. There's a certain number of people (I believe it's 20) that you have to give points to before you can "re-admire" someone you've given a point to previously.

As some people still have questions about the deletion of the posts last night, I want to make it clear that neither Elwen or TGShaw did anything wrong when they posted, and the deletion of the posts was not in any way a reprimand for either of them. Thus all the :k :k in my response.

Neither of them had any way of knowing how the author felt about the parody she had written, and neither of them knew of her desire not to have it spread around further, or linked to her name. Neither of them did anything wrong at all. The author herself feels badly that these two were inadvertantly caught in this, and is communicating with them separately to let them know why she feels the way she does. I'm afraid I can't tell the whole story in public, as that would only serve to further identify someone who chooses not to be identified in this, but rest assured that neither TGShaw or Elwen is in any trouble at all.

:k :k :k

Carry on. :D

It doesn't appear that anyone has been over to The Green Dragon in awhile. I took a walk there this morning. If there are interested parties, let me know a day and time...I'm not one of the "firstborn" but more of a "follower" if you know what I mean. And if one of my professors enters the pub, don't be surprised if I dive under the table. Homework, what homework? :D

It doesn't appear that anyone has been over to The Green Dragon in awhile...
Partly because, although I hate to admit it, I am completely stumped by Maeg's last poser in the quote game--even after a clue--and am hoping someone else will come along and be able to answer it!

But, anyway, the thread's been bumped and I've posted my opening thoughts, so if anyone else wants to take it from there: http://www.khazaddum.com/forums/showthread.php?p=261592#post261592

Elijah took part in a Q&A session for ESOTSM (with Charlie Kauffman) at the Arclight Theatre in LA on Thursday night. And someone who met him afterwards asked what the story was with the Ian Curtis movie. After hemming and hawwing and dancing around, the One Lad finally answered that, "Nothing is set yet."

So from the sound of it, we were right and he's in talks with the producers.

On another note, honeyelf and Flourish and I had an absolutely smashing time in NYC yesterday. We went to the Cooper-Hewitt Design museum (if anyone has seen "A Perfect Murder", there's a scene where Gwyneth Patrow walks down a street and around a corner, and you see a sign that says "Design Art" -- that's that museum), and had a lovely lunch and walked and walked and walked and talked of our boy and the films, and just had a ball. I love both you guys -- thanks for a great day!

Elijah took part in a Q&A session for ESOTSM (with Charlie Kauffman) at the Arclight Theatre in LA on Thursday night. And someone who met him afterwards asked what the story was with the Ian Curtis movie. After hemming and hawwing and dancing around, the One Lad finally answered that, "Nothing is set yet."

So from the sound of it, we were right and he's in talks with the producers.
:)

So, he is considering it after all!

Thanks, Achila.

Any other news on that Q&A?

Any other news on that Q&A?

I didn't notice anything earthshattering, that we haven't heard before, but I'll look through it again and copy it here, if people would like.

Thanks to Honey and Achila for a wonderful day! :k Enjoyed the museum, the lunch, and most of all the conversation--a rare treat in RL, to discuss LOTR and all things Frodo at leisure, in depth, and NOT via keyboard! :D What wonderful company you both are.

And to keep it official, we made sure to walk past the skating rink at Rockefeller Center where the credits for Elijah's SNL stint were filmed.

He wasn't there, though. :p

I’ve been swamped by what passes for Real Life (work :mad: ) all week, so I’m behind on my Lounge reading.

tgshaw: Those screencaps that you posted on Wednesday are lovely, with that subtle monochrome look. That's in addition to the lovely subject, of course.

Achila: I’d like to see more about the Q&A at the ArcLight, if you have anything.

Flourish wrote:

And to keep it official, we made sure to walk past the skating rink at Rockefeller Center where the credits for Elijah's SNL stint were filmed.
And your trip to the Cooper-Hewitt Design Museum could also be considered official (by a degree or two of separation), if it was seen in A Perfect Murder, which IIRC featured Viggo Mortensen, who of course costarred with Elijah.

Belated welcome to Eli Monkey!

I’ll be away on vacation for the next 5 days – no Internet access until Friday [already chewing fingernails]. Anyway, in honor [cough] of Halloween, I leave you with the following bit of doggerel:


HALLOWWOOD
(A poem, of sorts, for October 31st. It mentions a bunch of his roles, so it's sort of relevant. . . .)

If I went trick-or-treating as Elijah,
I’d have to pick a character to play,
And deal with all the friends who’d ask me, “Why’dja
Dress up like that?” And other things would vex:

Playing someone much younger
And probably shorter,
As well as the opposite sex.

Though his pre-teen films are quite atmospheric,
Michael, Mike One, and Nat look much alike.
So I might try something that’s more generic,
Instead of one specific character:*

(*Author’s note: That’s pronounced “charac-TARE,” to fit the meter and to rhyme with “hair” a few lines further on. Poetic license.)

I could do “baby lij”
If I opened my eyes
Very wide, and cut bangs in my hair.

Huck Finn would be a simpler proposition:
A period costume, and a little raft.
Or Stu, with tan and smoke-bomb “ammunition.”
I’d fake a Southern drawl for Huck or Stu.

Or fake sideburns and chin fuzz
For Patrick? McPhee was
Another choice – and creepy, too.

I’d have the most fun if I went as Frodo.
I’d love the pointy ears (though not the feet).
And I could carry Sting, and sing, “The road . . .” – Oh,
No, that was Bilbo’s song, which I won’t poach.

And I could be dressed
In a cute little vest
And a cloak with a leafy green brooch.

In truth, I’m too “grownup” for trick-or-treating:
I’m too “adult” for goblins and for ghosts,
And all that candy is unhealthy eating.
So I’ll spend Halloween in my home lair.

I’ll watch The Faculty
On my own DVD
If I feel that I need a good scare.


[Slinks off to New Jersey]

Great poem, Pelagia!

Here's a report on the Q&A, courtesy of primula baggins:

We watched ESOTSM on a very large screen with a great sound system. I recommend the Arclight if you are ever in the area.

Afterward, the Arclight people put out four high stool chairs (and two microphones—stupid). They then introduced Elijah Wood, Charlie Kaufman, and the producer, who I will call “Producer” because I never did catch what his name is.

The fourth person was a woman from USA Today, who I do not much quote here. She asked a few questions at the beginning, but very quickly it was opened up to the audience to ask questions. She moderated the question asking.

Apparently, a lot of the audience were film school students and other film buffs, so they asked a lot of questions of Charlie. He talked a lot at first, and Elijah sat there and listened intently, as he does. Finally, the moderator said:

Mod: Elijah, You did a lot of improvisation on this film.

Elijah: Yes, a good thing about working with Michel Gondry is that he lets the actors work improvisationally.

Elijah sat for a long time and no questions were asked of him. Charlie mostly spoke at this time. Charlie is much younger that I thought he was, perhaps 30 or so. He said that he gave a pitch to a studio for ESOTSM and it lasted only 5 minutes. From that, they decided to pick it up. He said the pitch was easy but writing the script was hard. Michel Gondry liked the story. They waited 10 months to start filming the movie because Jim Carrey was doing Bruce Almighty.

Charlie said he doesn’t have actors in mind when he writes stories. He was involved in the movie editing.

Producer: It’s unusual for the writer to work at editing.

Charlie: I’ve worked with Gondry twice. I would also like to work with David Lynch. I liked working in TV and learned a lot, but I wanted to do my “own stuff” so I went into movies. I wrote Being John Malkovich while working in TV.

Mod: Elijah you said something about the color of your hair before you came out.

Elijah: Yeah, my hair is darker because I was in Prague working on “Everything Is Illuminated”. They colored my hair dark for that. I liked the dark hair, so I kept it.

Charlie: The part with Elijah, Mark, and Kristin was added to the story later. At first it was only Joel and Clementine. I had to get the timeline in good order, and that took a long time.

Elijah: I did ESOTSM because I wanted to work with Gondry, and I loved the script.

(By this time, Elijah had hardly been asked anything, so I barged in and asked something just so he wouldn’t have to sit there.)

Me: Elijah, looking toward future projects, has “The Yank, or Hooligans” been picked up in the US yet?

Elijah: That’s a good question. It’s all done and ready to go, but it hasn’t been picked up yet. It’s still out there, so hopefully it will be.

Me: How about “Everything Is Illuminated”, when will that be released?

Elijah: That will be released either next spring (pauses) or next summer.

Charlie: I liked Jim Carrey because he wanted to do the part and was down to earth and natural sort of person. I thought he might be the “big movie star,” but he wasn’t like that.

Charlie: I wasn’t all that involved in the creative process of the movie. I was there in the beginning and then saw a rough cut.

Someone asked all three of them, “What were your inspirations?”

Producer: I worked with David Lynch, Spike Lee and Michel Gondry. They inspired me. I grew up before there were home videos and only saw studio movies in theaters. 1970’s pictures were influential for me.

(I didn’t write down Charlie’s response.)

Elijah: My favorite movie of all time was “Harvey”. (He said this because one of the other commenters mentioned a favorite film, I think.) I am inspired by many people. Filmmakers making interesting films get me most inspired.

Why did you like Harvey?

Elijah: Because the more I see it, the more I see in it. It’s about a guy who gives up on reality and makes his own reality.
It’s bumming me out that there aren’t that many good movies much anymore. Although I want to see (name of a movie--can’t read my note here) and “Birth”. I think they should be good. I feel like I’ve been going to film school for the last 15 years.

Elijah, do you have plans to work behind the camera?

Elijah: I want to work behind the camera, but that won’t be for a very long time.

Question: Did ESOTSM turn out how you envisioned? This question for all three.

Producer: It’s hard to remember what I thought it would be, but I’m pleased with how it came out. I’m enjoying the moment and think the movie achieved what I wanted.

Charlie: It’s impossible for it to come out how you envisioned it, because it’s a collaborative effort and that by nature changes things.

Elijah: I think it turned out better than I had hoped. Working with Michel was confusing. One day we were rehearsing the scene in the bookstore, and I asked Kate (Winslet), “Do you know what we’re doing? And she said “No”. It was good to see that the finished product was good. I think the story hits men emotionally unlike many movies. I’ve talked to my friends who normally wouldn’t feel emotional about a film like this, but they were moved by it.

Elijah: You know the scene at the beginning where Patrick goes up and wraps on Joel’s car window? Well there was a scene shot where Patrick asks for a cigarette as a reason to go up to Joel’s window so Joel wouldn’t be suspicious. But that scene was not put in the final movie.

Question for Elijah: Did you purposely do ESOTSM to act as a character that was far away from Frodo?

Elijah: No. But anything non-Lord of the Rings would be much different. The character of Patrick was different in that there’s a creepiness to him, and he’s a bit pathetic, but ultimately he’s redeemable, or I think so.

Question for Elijah: As a child actor, I thought you were brilliant. How is it to look back and see those older movies now?

Elijah: It’s a strange experience. It’s like seeing yourself, but it’s not really you—like naked baby pictures. It’s almost like another person, but I have vivid memories of being on-set too. Although those movies weren’t really all that long ago when you think about it, it seems like a long time ago to me.

Question about earliest roles:

Elijah: One of my first roles was in “Internal Affairs” and then “Back to the Future 3”. Avalon was the first large role that I had.

Question: Charlie, was Clementine based on someone you know?

Charlie: No, on someone I saw, and then I created her.

Question: Do you set out to make movies that are intellectually stimulating for the audience?

Producer: I make a movie that makes people think, but not so confusing that they don’t get it. We had to work very carefully on ESOTSM to get it so that it wouldn’t confuse the audience too much.

____________________________________________________________

Well, that was all of my notes. After the Q&A was done, some of us went down front to talk to the speakers. I bee-lined it for Elijah. I had never gotten a chance to get his autograph, although I’d seen him in person before, so I wanted to do that. I chose to have him sign my copy of “Everything Is Illuminated”. I also gave him a card.

We were told when the Q&A started that we weren’t allowed to take pictures. So no one did. However, when we went down front, someone asked if Elijah if it was OK to take his picture, and of course he said, “Sure!” I then got out my camera and took a few pictures of him.

I then remembered something else I wanted to ask him, so I went over to him and said, “Elijah, I heard a rumor that you were considering taking a role as Ian Curtis.”

Elijah said, ”He was the lead singer in the band, “Joy Division””. A girl who was standing beside us and who wasn’t even looking our way (but who was apparently listening anyway) said, “Oh, I love Joy Division”. Elijah turned around to her and said, “Do you?” She nodded. He seemed quite interested in this response. Then he turned back to me and sort of danced around the question. He didn’t answer the question directly, but finally said, “Nothing is definite yet.”

Hullo from New York!

Flourish, and Achila, thanks for a great day yesterday! It was such fun to talk about our mutual interests at length! :D

Thank you, Achila, for posting Primula Baggins' report from the Archlight! I'm pleased that Elijah's perception of the film's impact on men mirrored my husband's reaction.

I'm kind of confused about the Ian Curtis role for Elijah. Didn't the producers state that they most definetly wanted a brit for the role? Has it really escaped their notice that he's an American? Wow, that accent was really good! :lol: :lol:

Well you haven't had the full halloween experience until you've ridden the New York subways on Oct. 30. The camera is definitely going with me tomorrow! :D

honey!

Achila,
thanks for posting that.

Elijah: Yeah, my hair is darker because I was in Prague working on “Everything Is Illuminated”. They colored my hair dark for that. I liked the dark hair, so I kept it.
:( I don't like the dark hair. The contrast with his pale skin is too big IMO. His own haircolor suits him better.

Why did you like Harvey?

Elijah: Because the more I see it, the more I see in it. It’s about a guy who gives up on reality and makes his own reality.

:)

:( I don't like the dark hair. The contrast with his pale skin is too big IMO. His own haircolor suits him better.

I think the problem is that the "dark-*ss brown" has no life to it. It's just dark and seems...unnatural, like it's a wig. His own hair color has reddish highlights that are quite attractive (not that I noticed or anything...LOL).

As some of you know, there have been some problems with access etc to KD for a while. It seems the larger threads at KD have been causing problems in the database due to their size, but we didn't know this was the reason until just recently, and then on short notice drastic action had to be taken. A day and a half ago, Moggy had to delete the entire Harem thread because of this, and wasn't given enough time to save it first. :( We're going to try to retrieve what we can to store on another site, but it's a lot of work, and it means our archive won't be held at KD.

To avoid this happening to other large threads, we're going to lock some of the really big threads and have you start new ones in order to be able to at least keep the history of the threads on this site. All the old posts would still be available to view, but will be locked for further posting or editing. You can carry on as usual in the new thread.

Would you guys be OK to have either Shilohmm (who started this thread here) or TGShaw start up the new Faculty thread? As soon as this is done, I'll lock this one from further posting. I'd prefer that the new thread get started before I lock this one, if at all possible.

Well, i just can speak for my self but
for me it is okey!!!!! :k

I woulde hate to see that this thread went
the same way at frodos harem did!!!! :(
I hade a big chock when i coulden`t find it!! :eek:

I don`t want too lose this one too!! this has become my
second home even thou i don`t post much,but i have met
some wonderful friends in here!!!! Don`t want to lose you guyes!!!! :(

LOVE/WOOD

That's fine with me, Narya. And thanks for the info -- I wondered what happened to the Harem.

Of course, Narya, whatever needs to be done. And thank you so much for the warning. Yikes!!!


Regarding the Ian Curtis role. In the original article about the role, the person speaking for the movie said there was someone huge...and didn't he use the words (or like) "if this person decides to do it..?"

If that is the case maybe it isn't about the casting director having yet to decide...but Elijah (if it is him) who is still considering. Which makes me think of the various reasons that might make him hesitate. Maybe the script is not his cup of tea. Maybe it is a bad script, or the focus is sensational. What kind of person was Ian Curtis? I heard he was intense and jealous. Was he abusive?? I just know nothing about him. I have been excited about the possibility of this role but now I'm stepping back to wonder what all the factors might be. Of course the reasons for hesitation might have nothing to do with the quality of the project, but scheduling, or singing :) , or any number of things...


Thanks, Achila for the Primula Baggins transcript

Hope you are loving NY, Honey. Glad you ladies had so much fun together. How many of you had secret Frodo keychains with you? :)

Thank you, Pelagia, for the seasonal poem!! I love Halloween, but this year have been too focused on the election to give it enough thought. That could be our own scary movie!!

Shelbyshire, I'm not Catholic of religeous, but I do think the question of Frodo being a Christ figure is very interesting. Okay, TG--maybe just a mini martyr and not Christ. I will have to follow you post in The Heart and Soul of Frodo thread. I get all tingly and go into a blissed out zen state when I read your deep Tolkien/Frodo speculation and analysis. Oh yeah, and Now we have hobbit :D skeletons discovered this week. Not very near Northern Europe..ah..but maybe Tol Eressa? :D Can we give that discovery some fantasy milage??? I wish... :) ;)

Yeah, Achila, the dark brown with highlights (a la Frodo) does look very attractive. Flat dark isn't as good. However, I've yet to see enough pictures of new hair to properly judge. A little more research.... :cool:

Would you guys be OK to have either Shilohmm (who started this thread here) or TGShaw start up the new Faculty thread?

I'd prefer to have tgshaw do it, if she would - we wanted to have her do it when we came to KD but she was out of touch and after a bit people got antsy with no "home". :D It's only right that the "Dean of the Faculty" start it once in a while, I should think. ;)

Sheryl

I just heard from Ariel about losing the Harem. :(

I was wondering if it would be wise to start an entire forum dedicated to just the ones who enjoy posting in these and related forums.

That way we won't be hogging all Moggy's bandwidth, just our own?? And we shouldn't be risking losing all our posts after awhile.

If everyone could chip in a little we could have a great custom forum of our own.

I'd be willing to set it up if everyone thinks it's a good idea. We could keep the same mods and everything.

Hope you are loving NY, Honey. Glad you ladies had so much fun together. How many of you had secret Frodo keychains with you? :)


Well, I had my Frodo watch on -- does that count?! And I also had with me the wonderfully geeky Elwood keychain that Honey made for us when I "mooted" with ylla a month or so ago!


Yeah, Achila, the dark brown with highlights (a la Frodo) does look very attractive. Flat dark isn't as good. However, I've yet to see enough pictures of new hair to properly judge. A little more research.... :cool:

Prim asked that we not repost her photos that she took on Thursday night at the Arclight but you can find them on her lj - - www.livejournal.com/users, and then primula_baggins

Thanks, Achila. I went and checked. Yep. The hair works for me. Definitely ;)

Thanks, Achila. I went and checked. Yep. The hair works for me. Definitely

Me too, Alyon! :D

As for our discussion group, I agree with Wood ; I don't want to loose any of you to other forums in a shuffle. We have an established community here, and i like the kinds of discussions we have here; everything from acting techniques to saints! ;) I too vote for TG! to start us off!

honey!

Narya, locking the previous posts sounds like a good solution to me. As long as they can still be read, I don't see big problems with it, even if it gets to the point where earlier parts of the thread have to be stored somewhere else.I'll be happy to start a new thread, as long as that first post doesn't have to be too creative--the brain is tied up other places right now... Maybe I should copy Sheryl's original one from this thread? Does the new thread have to have a slightly different name, or can it stay the same?

Hobmom, the new forum could be something to keep in mind. I'd vote for staying at KD if we can, partly because I wouldn't want to lose direct contact with the rest of the site--even most of the Community Cafe threads would probably still be here, and there are other KDers who lurk and occasionally drop in with valuable contributions--at least in the Faculty, and I'd imagine in the other threads, too. I doubt if many of them would regularly hop over to another message board. Also, partly because IMVHO it's easier for new people to find us here.

Glad those meeting in NYC had a great time, and thanks to Achila for that Q&A report. If Elwood wants to continue his practice of keeping future projects under wraps until he's ready to talk about them, he's going to have to learn to say "no comment" to everything ;) , whether something's in the works or not. He has very intelligent fans, eh? :p Seems people put the pieces together on the Ian Curtis movie even without any actual rumors (not that I would have had the slightest idea--never having heard of the musician). He seemed to be caught off-guard by the question; maybe he hasn't been surfing the net enough lately ;) .

----When it's finished, it hopefully won't be too noticeable, but frodolivesin.us is going through a massive overhaul because of the size it's grown to. Beginning with RotK, any new sections have been added as new subdirectories (basically separate little sites linked to the main one). So up to yesterday, it consisted of the main site and four subdirectories. I'm now splitting the main site into five pieces and, if I can get that to work, will then add another new one. But the publishing is taking longer than I thought, so there may be broken links or missing pictures for a couple of days til I can get all the pieces up--if you run into a place with a lot of red x's, or you click on a link and it doesn't do anything, it's probably not your computer's fault. I'm heading back there to see if I can get something more published before I run off to work, since I can post at KD from my office computer but can't work on the website from there. You should be able to get to the 4 new Shelob's Lair pages with no trouble now, because the RotK screencaps were already in a separate subdirectory, but FotR is one of the spin-offs, so the screencaps for the Mirror of Galadriel are taking some time.