Hi there, and Welcome to the Faculty Lounge! Take a seat on a couch and check out an Elijah Wood movie - but be warned, the Faculty analyzes Elijah Woods performances, movies, and character's motives in excruciating detail. In the process we have been known to discuss everything from biology to whether PJ intends to evoke medieval paintings in his shots of Frodo. Since this thread was originally the Elijah Wood: Non-Swoon thread back at Imladris, I would like to ask that swoons here be kept to a minimum. Hobmom has a swoon thread where she puts up monthly wallpaper and does all manner of niftiness. :)

A current on-going debate in the Faculty is whether actors can make use of microexpressions, which are tiny changes in expression that pass by so fast people can't really see them, but that influence people's responses. The Faculty has been known to go through sections of EW's performances frame-by-frame in this debate, and then argue over what emotions he's trying to convey, why the character would feel that way, etc.

We've also been discussing whether PJ is consciously imitating medieval religious paintings in some shots of Frodo, whether Frodo in TTT has a different wig, how well the new footage will blend with the older stuff, since EW has clearly been growing and changing a bit, and PJ's treatment of the servant/master issue with Sam and Frodo. And we've been discussing a book that a possible EW movie is based on, whether Chain of Fools will EVER be released anywhere but Scandinavia, the outrageous abuse EW suffers on other fansites, Try 17 and numerous other topics that cross our fertile brains.

And the Frodo gene is an actual gene in frogs related to the eyes somehow…. Really!

Basically, posters to this thread treat EW with respect, and tolerate huge long posts on minutia - but don't require them. :)

Sheryl

Yo. :cool:

Geekboy is here! :D

Sheryl, deepest thanks for bringing a Faculty Lounge branch to KD!

I take exception to the characterization of our fascination with minutiae as 'excruciating', however. Perhaps for the moderators who have to wade through the detailed posts, but never for a true Faculty member. ;)

As a housewarming gift to us, here is a brand new coffeemaker with espresso and cappucino-making features. Also various flavored syrups to add, plus a shaker of cinnamon and a bottle of genuine vanilla. Might as well get a caffeine buzz in high style. :)

Let's see, the lunch break should be coming up soon, so I expect we'll see a bit more traffic in here shortly.

Gotta get busy decorating. Somewhere I have a stash of Froshadowing pictures...for the new members, this term refers to previous Elwood movies that have moments eerily similar to Froments in LOTR.

:D

Sheryl!!!!

Thank you, sweetie! I knew I could count on you! Now I certainly hope the other ladies see fit to come over here where we won't have to modify our behavior to suit some foolish rule about what we can and cannot discuss! I mean, the Faculty has always been respectful and non-swoony (for the most part) :p and has ALWAYS been an asset to any board it resided on!

Anyway... to start off the thread right, a new Froshadowing...
http://web.kcnet.org/arielshouse/Huck008.jpg

http://web.kcnet.org/arielshouse/Frounconcious.jpg

I also have some nice pics from the new Trailer that I wanted to discuss in detail... but, of course, they are at home and I am not... I was going to load them up and discuss them when all this mess started!

Ariel

Dear Colleagues: It took me a loooong time, but I found you over here. (I thought the thread would be in the Asylum; it took some sleuthing to find The Mall!)

Over at the blue thread I was peaceweaver. I registered here many moons ago under this name, and I guess I should stick to it.

On with the froshadowing, and any other frickin topic we want to discuss, says I.

Dude, I am SOOOOOOO gonna talk about Frodo in here. :cool: Woohoo!

WELCOME PW (or Vita!) and Ele!!! I am tickled beyond words to see you both in here!

I love this thread - it was my first home - and though I often had words with some of the 'establishment' - I respect each an every one of the women that have posted in the Faculty. I hope we can get on with the 'analysis'.

Edit: Hey, I just had a thought... if Elve doesn't show up soon, I am going to usurp her title as Kissing Research Director! Ha HA! And with Try Seventeen coming out (someday :rolleyes: ) I may actually have some new material to work from.

Say, if we ever do get the Faculty Meet together, if I am the KRD do I get to do some practical, hands on research? :o Purely to help him improve his techique, of course! :p

Ariel

Peaceweaver! I mean Vita! I'm so glad you're here. Been thinking about you today.

I believe our first assignment will be to review and critique Chain of Fools, n'est-ce pas?

:D :D :D

And Ele: righto, girl. We can talk about anything we want. Oh yes. Woo-hoo!

Originally posted by Ariel
Edit: Hey, I just had a thought... if Elve doesn't show up soon, I am going to usurp her title as Kissing Research Director! Ha HA!


Sheryl trouts Ariel - just because she's in a troutin' mood and Ariel's a good sport. ;)

Elve said she'd go where we go, IIRC (actually, just about everybody said that), so don't go jumpin' the gun. ;) And most of those with strong inner grandmas will be here stirrin' up trouble, too, I think. I think the only regular poster I haven't heard from is tgshaw - she was out of town over the weekend, and probably hasn't looked in on the Faculty yet. She's gonna be reelin' I expect, poor kid.

Originally posted by Ariel

I believe our first assignment will be to review and critique Chain of Fools, n'est-ce pas?

I'm game, but I'm also looking forward to Ariel's captures from the trailer.

I miss everybody's avatars, and no peaceweaver? :( I loved that name. 'Course I love that girl, so it'll work out I expect. :)

I know we can wander more than we did, but could we not change too much, guys? I adapt poorly, and I'm still adjusting to the move anyhow. :p

I am glad to be back in the same Forum with the Harem and the other Casting threads, though. :)

Welcome, guys, I am so glad we have a place to be.

((((((Faculty))))))

Sheryl

Originally posted by Ariel
Say, if we ever do get the Faculty Meet together, if I am the KRD do I get to do some practical, hands on research?
You ain't practicing on me, sister!

:p

Hey, I kept forgetting to say in the old lounge that this month's Premiere is a 15th-anniversary issue, and they have various "Best of" categories. Elwood was in the top six of "Best Child Performance" for The Good Son. No surprise to any of you, I'm sure.

Vita 'peaceweaver' S-B and I live in the same neighborhood in RL, and we're watching Chain of Fools (with Chinese subtitles, no less) tomorrow night. No doubt we'll have a few things to say about the experience.

We'd best have some smelling salts ready for tg when she returns to cyberlife. To me she's the Dean of our Faculty, and if she has been away, the changes will be a shock.:(

I hope the others find their way here soon. The more, the merrier.:)

Greetings!!

Oh, its Primrose here. This will be confusing at first I guess what with name changes.

Never mind- we're all geniuses right?

Must go and rescue someone in the corporeal world but will be back.:D

Woo-hoo! Hello everyone! :)

I registered here a couple of weeks ago but have only been in here a couple of times, as I tend to stay over at CoE. However, now that I know you're all here too I'll be here moreoften (but still at CoE too, of course ;) ). Will have to try to get my avatar set up here too (is there a certain number of posts you need to achieve this?)

BTW - I was getting very confused (as I suppose a lot of people were) at what was happening with us at CoE (and if you knew me in RL, you'd know that is a regular occurence with me - getting confused that is ;) ) so is The Faculty thread over there still going to get used, but in more restricted terms due to what happened? If so I'll still be using it anyway, but come here too. Or has it been discontinued?

Goldie - Chain of Fools! You lucky thing, you can make us all jealous with your musings about seeing our 'EW-Holy Grail'!

I'm going to go now, I've been on the net for hours and a lot of that was reading the Ask the Mods thread at CoE!

Anyway, before I go here's a nice pic of Elijah with that Culkin fellow :D to get me started on the picture posting over here (bet it gets taken down or something :D ).

http://www.famedandframed.com/store/assets/product_images/normal/999108459.jpg

And my own personal 'Holy Grail' of Elijah movies (well until the video distributers of CoF decide to be really nice and release it in other countries!) Blossom are you there - I'm going to order it soon.

http://images.rottentomatoes.com/images/movie/coverv/86/155686.jpg

Speak again soon! (((Hugs)))

Luthiea x

Originally posted by Ariel
Hey, I just had a thought... if Elve doesn't show up soon, I am going to usurp her title as Kissing Research Director! Ha HA! And with Try Seventeen coming out (someday :rolleyes: ) I may actually have some new material to work from.

Whoa there missy, not so fast! Even though, being the nice and caring person I am, I may be willing to jointly share in that role, sort of like co-KSR's? After all, such an important area as this needs various points of view. :)

Well, I just stopped by to say hi and check the joint out. Goldie, thanks so much for the coffeemaker, it suits the place! It needs sprusing up a bit, I must say:

http://hobbitonhill.net/images/facultylounge01.jpg

http://hobbitonhill.net/images/facultylounge02.jpg

Though if geek boy extraordinaire is there, it looks just fine!

Sheryl, thanks for starting the thread. And hello to Pearl, lovely Vita, Ele, Ms Cadmo, and Luthiea.

I was always intimidated by the Faculty thread at CoE and never posted but I read it a lot. Great thread! I am confused too so I finally came over here to look around. I think we need 30 posts to get an avatar, whoever asked that. :) I just checked myself. I registered here a couple months ago and don't even remember where I posted! Ok, sorry that was off topic!:rolleyes:
Evenstar sits back to watch the goings on

Oh, and I LOVE the Good Son. EJW was such a good little actor in that movie, and I cry everytime from the emotions it invokes. :(

Hello and (((((((hugs))))))))) to everyone. It's so good to see you all.

I must admit I haven't taken time to really read all the posts (just looked at the pics and pondered the new user names) :rolleyes: in my hurry to say hello.

However, Ariel: *Wow* what a Froshadowing! :cool:

And an additional hug for ((((((Goldenberry)))))))))) Thank you.

:)

Hi everyone. I found you again. It is NOT easy keeping track!! I'm really confused about all the problems over at CofE. Does anybody understand what the fuss is about? Anyhow, let's just make ourselves comfortable wherever we are.

Evie - you are MORE than welcome to come and visit - and PLEASE feel free to participate. This should be as nice a forum as the old one was and I hope we can find all kinds of interesting things to discuss that you can find something to comment on. I am sure you have more in your head than you give yourself credit for. And I hate to tell you, but we brought the DDL with us... :p

BTW, all,...... I have finally seen 'Flipper'...

Dead silence reigns except for the chirping of crickets in the dusty corners of the lounge, as fellow Faculty members digest this astonishing news. The last of the hold outs has finally succumbed.

I will be more than happy to share my thoughts when supper is done and the kids are settled. :p

As for my screen caps, I am now able to capture from .MOV files (Rosie -> :p) and I proccured some portions of the trailer that were interesting and harder to capture than others.

This first one is very interesting in the position of the hand that you see coming from behind....http://web.kcnet.org/arielshouse/ttttorturedangelwhand.jpg
To me that looks more like someone coming to guide him forward rather than someone trying to grab him. I don't think it looks 'sinister' enough to be a 'grab' - but that is JMHO. The creative cut that they used to edit the trailer makes it hard to tell from just a glance what the hand is going to do, but the still makes it clearer.

This image....
http://web.kcnet.org/arielshouse/TTThandclasp.jpg
Just BREAKS my heart! I mean, LOOK at him! Another microexpression - the slight opening of his mouth from the still just before it, like a gasp of pain, or relief... oh, my... the angst will just eat me up!

Sigh...

More later.

Edit: MAEGLIN!!!! Ariel runs to one of her favorite faculty members and hugs the stuffing out of her! Man, I am glad you gals showed up! It wouldn't be the same without the intellectual set! :)

Ariel

Originally posted by shilohmm
....the outrageous abuse EW suffers on other fansites, :)

Sheryl


What?? What outrageous abuse? Lemme at 'em, lemme at 'em!!

Oh, wait, maybe I don't want to know... :p

What a great froshadowing you've found, Ariel! I love that.

{{{{Faculty}}}}

Hmm, maybe that is Faramir encouraging him to come along? I am too tired and my brain is too foggy to think of the exact page and stuff. But it reminds me of when Faramir wants to talk to him and Frodo is wary of him. The look on his face is almost relieved (IMO) and exhausted and trying to stay aware and ready.

Evie ducks back behind the rocks :D

OT but -- Vita/Peaceweaver, I *do* hope that your Frolijah avatar reappears once you've reached your 30 posts. It is one of my favorite avatars. :D :cool:

Glad you all could make it here .... in all the upheaval! I think I descended into permanent (and then sporadic) lurkdom waaaaay back in February or March .... but I did and do enjoy the discussions here ... maybe I'll be able to keep up with you gals a second time 'round?! :eek: :)

I too am hoping we see Tgshaw here soon .... that's the worst part of this sort of deal, wondering who'll be able to follow (or bilocate), and who will stay .... :(

elanorh settles into lurkdom mode in the corner .....

I miss everybody's avatars

Just for you Sheryl, the frazzled cat is temporarily retired and the leaf reinstated. ;)

Cool, a Flipper discussion. I am totally ready to be tedious on this topic... I watch it a lot (kids you know).
Guess what? It grows on you.

Originally posted by Cadmo
Cool, a Flipper discussion. I am totally ready to be tedious on this topic... I watch it a lot (kids you know).
Guess what? It grows on you.

Dear Eru, I hope so! :p

Ariel

Ariel, here's me returning that hug:

((((((((Ariel)))))))))

The intellectual set? :o Erm... well, I do have this unfortunate tendency to go on and on in what Sheryl calls excrutiating detail, but hey! It takes all kinds, right?

I am looking forward to future discussions here. And with that trailer cap of the mysterious arm, we should get down to business at once.
Actually, I get this impression in my mind of Faramir, tapping Frodo on the shoulder and asking him not to dawdle and ogle the ruins. :rolleyes:

That is an amazingly beautiful Frodo pic, though, so it's kind of difficult to focus on anything else.

I forgot in my previous post to say thank you to Sheryl for opening this new Faculty Lounge. You know how much I appreciate this. :)


Edit: I have to disagree on Flipper. That's the only one of his films that just doesn't grow on me. And btw, I caved in and bought the Huck Finn DVD. The European version doesn't have the Director's commentary, what's up with that? But otherwise.... All those froshadowings......... :)

Hey. I am more than willing to defend Flipper all on my lonesome if I have to . And at length. Sort of "bore you into agreement" tactics. :eek:

But it will have to be later. Must actually get stuff done.

Nice to see some of the troops here.

Hiya, well I'm back..

I know I said that was me done for the night, well I lied :D

I just ordered Bumblebee! I went to Amazon and it said there was only 3 copies left in stock(!) so I thought I'd better get it as a precautionary measure :p You know, in case they didn't get any more.

I was at AlwaysandForever and found this bit of info about an audio book that Elijah has narrated. It's called 'The Most Beautiful Gift: A Christmas Story' and is available through Amazon. If you go here - http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1570424438/alwayselijah-20 it brings up the page. Click on the 'Audio Download' under the Product Details section and then click on the Realplayer or Windows Media icon to hear a little bit of Elijah's narration! Very cute!

Evenstar_18 - 30 posts for an avatar? I've got a lot of catching up to do then!

(((((Hugs to Khazad-Dum Faculty)))))

L x

Hi!

Welcome everyone! I did not post in CoE Faculty for ... forever... , but I lurked mostly.

Be sure I'll be watching you here as well!

:k

I'm SO glad to see this thread here, as I've "lurked it" in its many incarnations. I'll lurk here as well.

Please resume your discussions ;) .

O.K. - Cadmo = Primrose.... I will get this right after a bit, I hope!

First, it was not as bad as I thought it was. I was prepared for searing pain, and all I got was mediocre Disney - which I have been watching since the kids got old enough to be able to follow a story. It wasn't one of EW's best performances, but I have to give him credit - the script was pretty bad - and he did a good job with it and made it bearable. I didn't even mind the other actors in it - Paul Hogan is Paul Hogan - I don't think he can play another character :rolleyes: - and the other actors were, well, what you would expect from a mediocre Disney movie.

As far as Froshadowing, I have to agree - there is NOT much there to work with. EW was not challenged AT all (except maybe to keep the water out of his face while swimming with the dolphin - but what a cool experience that must have been) so you don't get to see any of his great angsty, soulful, heartfelt expressions. He's not likely to look 'bored' in ANY part of LOTRs! LOL!

All in all, it wasn't THAT bad... I am sure, from tg's description, the TT&T cartoon is far worse (bless the poor dear for suffering through it for us!). The only part I really COULDN'T stand was the part where he has all the kids on the dock and he had the cigar in his mouth (a foreshadowing perhaps?). The scene itself wasn't too bad but I started having flashbacks when they began that DAMNED SONG!!!! ARGGGHHHH! I was OF the generation who actually watched that series - and up to that point, the film had been blissfully separate in my mind from the former experience - but that painful tune brought it screeching back. It was like nails on a chalk board! It took me about 2 whole days to get the darned thing OUT of my head again!

Luckily the tape has no pictures on the box so the kids don't notice it when they are picking out movies from the shelf. We've seen it twice and I am not sure I would find it as tolerable after many repeated viewings.

Speaking of movies - I now have DVDs (and can get still images of) Huck Finn, Bumblebee, The Faculty, Ice Storm, The War and DI (as well as LOTR, though you guys probably guessed that!) If you want a screen cap and have patience, I can probably get it for you.

Ariel

Originally posted by Maeglian
I do have this unfortunate tendency to go on and on in what Sheryl calls excrutiating detail,

You guys are going to give me grief about that forever, aren't ya? Hey, I'm just warning whatever poor sap (crosses that out) kind soul that ends up modding us what they're in for. I often suspect it gets pretty thick in here from a mod's Point of View. :p

Cadmo,
Thanks for bringing back your lovely avatar. Except now I'm going to keep calling you "Prim." :D And you're right, Flipper does grow on you. Maeglian, you're quite out on that one. No director's commentary on Huck Finn? Bummer, I really enjoyed that. Even the kids sat through it with the commentary once, believe it or not. Well, the oldest one did.

Luthiea,
I like that Good Son pic, hadn't seen it before. And if I get that tape for hubby for Christmas, do you think he'll notice who narrated it? I suppose if he doesn't one of the kids will (they're to the point where they ask, "Who does Elijah Wood play?" whenever I suggest renting a tape...). But do you think he'll mind? :p

Ariel,
Thanks for the caps, but unfortunately I have nothing coherant to say about them. ;)

And I'd hide Flipper if you can't take the song (thanks a lot for bringing that up, btw, now I'm hearing it over and over in my head :mad: :rolleyes: :) ), because mine started singing it regularly after watching the tape a few times. :eek:

Hi to juliebeth, Tata, evie, and all those who generally lurk. Feel free to jump in anytime, please. :)

(((((Faculty)))))

Sheryl

Well, I finally made it over here. Am I allowed to say "Frodo" and "Elijah" in the same sentence again? Good. Some day one of you ex-mod types must explain to me the reasoning behind not letting people talk about Frodo on an Elijah Wood thread. Go figure.

Enough of this chit-chat. We need research. Has anyone ever seen the self-portraits of van Gogh and how they go from being fairly representative to downright "weird" the crazier the poor fellow gets? I'm getting the same vibe from the Frodo Decipher cards that have been appearing lately. The wilder Elijah looks, the more he reminds me of Vincent. He even has the "eyes of china blue". And the following part of the lyrics sound like Frodo, don't you think? Back in the Shire after Mount Doom?

For they could not love you
But still your love was true
For I could have told you . . .
This world was never meant for one as beautiful as you.

Ah well, just "stream of (un)consciousness". It's late. See you all later.

I am SO happy to see the Faculty here - I read every word over in the blue world (through the various incarnations of the blue world), and though I didn't post very much I always enjoyed listening in. (Do you get the feeling you're being watched??):p

So I just had to stop by and do a little gratuitous hugging before the serious work started.

((((Faculty)))))

Hi everyone,

for some mysterious reason I cannot get into the forums at Elve's site, despite having the proper password etc. That's why I'm not joining the discussions there which is pretty frustrating. I'm late for work so can't write more, but I just wanted you to know the reason why I seem to be silent on such an important subject.

WELL HELLOOOO! Blossom here, relieved to have found you all again. It's so sad about C of E - I'd only just settled down there and they went and told us off for talking too much, or something like that! I will pop in there and take a look now and then, but I hope we can continue all our Elijah Wood in-depth discussions here without any problems.

LUTHIEA HAS ORDERED BUMBLEBEE!!! I knew you would succumb to temptation. Hope you like it after all my ravings :)
Btw, Luthiea - how are froggy Frodo and Bilbo? How do you tell which is which? I imagine Frodo is the charming, cute one with the beautiful big blue eyes!!!

So good to see all the familiar names (and not so familiar) here. Hi to Sheryl (thank you, thank you!) Maeglian, Pearl, Luthiea, Ariel, Goldenberry, Vita (Peaceweaver - I miss your avatar too), Elevensies, Cadmo (That's Primrose, right?), Elve, Evenstar, Frodolives, Stormy, Narya and Elenorth. I think that's everyone who posted here before I found you.

Hope Tg gets here soon!

Ta-ta (I've seen you over at C o E, haven't I?) Juliebeth and Louise - are you both new, or have you changed your names? Either way, lurk no more. I lurked for ages over at Imladris and C of E, but I received such a lovely welcome when I first posted I decided to join in permanently.

Ariel, thanks for the screencaps. I agree that the hand in the first one does look more like it's 'guiding him forward'. It does appear to be Faramir or one of the soldiers of Gonder reaching out to draw Frodo away. And the second one - Oooh, poor darling. I can't wait for all those heart-wrenching Frodo and Sam clips - of which there will be lots, of course - PJ take note.

That's about it for now. Who's going to suggest our first subject discussion? Something to get our teeth into, and make us feel at home here. Where are you Ainon? Can you bring the Milo when you find us?
:D

Maeglian- bummer. Maybe Elve can help? Or post your opinion for you on what our future should be?

Anyone else interested in what the Fac should do could you post at Hobbiton Hill? You need a code, as its locked since Elve closed it last week I think but has volunteered it for debate. Elve or I or another regular (sorry to be vague but Elve's email list was incomplete, this crisis came up a bit unexpectedly, so I've not much idea who she has emailed and who not so far) can give it you by pm or email.


Ok Flipper aversives ( I don't actually think that's a word but what the heck) please do not read further... :)

I like Flipper. I'm sorry- but I do.

Ariel is spot on. Its rubbish, a piece of fluff. But I like this fluff- blue sea, white beaches, frolicking dolphins and a strange but cute little boy in a mac . (Not quite sure why, NZTV tends to cut stuff to fit it into the tv schedule so perhaps a critical moment was deleted?)

The only thing that irritates me is Paul Hogan. He is just so....Paul Hogan. He's unremitting. Doesn't matter which movie. Same obnoxious Paul Hogan.

And I hate the way he humiliates Sandy. Actually, I suspect the audience is supposed to feel for Hogan and his attempts to deal with a bratty teen, but my sympathies were totally with the bratty teen. (Well, yes, I can hear you mutter- since he's played by E. Wood surprise surprise.) But Hogan is a pain. He doesn't remember to meet Sandy, then he leaves him alone, then he gets picky over Sandy's attempt to raise "fish" for Flipper.
And any uncle who cleans dishes in the shower with his feet does not have my vote of confidence. ;)

I think on the whole as a kids movie it works- mine love it. But then plot, dialogue and character development don't mean a lot to 5 and 8 year olds. :D

Brace yourself Ariel. Sheryl's kids like it, so do mine, bet yours are next. Either get used to humming "They call him Flipper" or crack out the sedatives. ;)

From Imladris Casting to Imladris Pony to CoE Pony to Khazaddum! I do hope we find a permanent home somewhere. I thought CoE was it, and I really don't understand what we did so wrong (I don't have time to read the Ask The Mods thread). I don't like change, but this place seems pretty cool and it looks like we're setting here, give or take a few who are MiA who will appear very shortly - I'm sure of it. Thanks Shilohmn for laying the foundations for our new home.

Thirty posts until an avatar!? I'll have forgotten my identity by then :)

This is confusing: Vita = PW and Cadmo = Prim. Too confusing :D Hi to all who's joined and (((((Hugs to the Faculty)))))

Juliebeth, Louise - please don't go into lurk mode. We're glad to have newcomers here. Pull up a faculty chair and make yourself comfortable.

I don't really have anything sensible to say at the moment - I know I was quiet on the CoE board for the past week or two too, though I was always listening in, even if not taking part in the conversation.

Originally posted by Luthiea
I was at AlwaysandForever and found this bit of info about an audio book that Elijah has narrated. It's called 'The Most Beautiful Gift: A Christmas Story' and is available through Amazon.

This is so weird. I haven't seen this on always and forever, in fact, I have never heard of this audio book, but someone sent this to me and I just received it yesterday. I think he did it while he was filming The Ice Storm, in 1996. The story is okay, but just when you think it's finished it keeps going on and on. It started out with potential and then sort of fizzled out - I ended up just listening to his voice instead of what he was saying so I couldn't even say how the story ends! His voice is excellent as usual, very relaxing and sweet. He reads most of it in his regular voice, only changing slightly for the different characters (unlike The Big Pumpkin episode, in which he uses dramatically different voices for each character). Anyway, as far as I can see "The Most Beautiful Gift" is no longer available to purchase, but the lady who sent it to me had rented it from the public library. I am also considering mp3ing it. It's close to an hour long.

And something else cool - I found some folks who are going to see Ash Wednesday this weekend, and one of them will be writing a synopsis/review. She expects to have it by Sunday night, and I will try it get it up quickly. The one that I currently have posted on my site (from Lilith) doesn't go into much detail at all about the plot or performances, so I have asked this reviewer to go into detail about the plot with special emphasis on elwood's character and performance. Oh how lucky these people are!

Flipper, yes, I agree with Cadmo on this, but is it any surprise, coming from the person who has never said anything negative about anything EW has done, including TT&T? Anyway, I also like this movie for the reasons Cadmo listed - an adorable boy swimming with dolphins in a beautiful tropical ocean - I am completely content with the whole film being reduced to that! Anyway, I am a dolphin freak myself, so I have always been happy that he said he did that film just to be able to work with dolphins (though sometimes I worry that the dolphins may have been hurt or stressed duing filming, especially during the move from the sound to the ocean, but I try not to think about that). I have actually been thinking of adding a question to our list about this - what was it like to work with them, learning to communicate, etc...

Regarding my forum, to those of you whose email addresses I do not have: Some of you may remember I mentioned a week or so ago that I would be closing it to the public, but would leave the five satellite threads. Well I did that on Sunday, and just moved the threads into a password protected area. Anyone who posts here or in the CoE threads is welcome to the password, and can feel free to post there anytime. I plan to leave them there just in case it's ever needed as a backup, and it also makes a good place for more private discussions since it's non-lurkable (unless the lurker has the password). However, I will be taking the link to the forum down from my website, so it is not accessible by the general public. Feel free to email/PM me for the password if you don't have it. As I mentioned before, I mainly did this because the forum was taking up too much space that I need for some new video and audio files I intend to make, plus there was the issue about EW gossip that bugged me, so I decided I didn't want a public message board attached to my site.

Okay, must go. My new computer is coming today!! A dual processor G4 (that's mac of course) with superdrive- meaning it burns CDs and DVDs. That DVD burner means I can take all my LOTR snippets, interviews, etc.. from tape, edit them together, and make a DVD out of them. Unh!!! Would you all think I was weird if I swooned for a computer??? :D

I'm here. :) I'm ainon. I registered here during one of the Imladris crashes some months back. I think I was in a rush, so I just typed 'non', and so there you go. Just helping to add to the confusion. :D

I'm not feeling very well, but I wanted to do this quick post to say how glad I am be back with you guys again. So, so, so glad. :)

{{{{Faculty}}}

Btw, count me in as another who sat through Tom Thumb in the name of Elijah appreciation. I'm still reeling from the shock of having to endure more than an hour of Jennifer Love Hewitt's brattiness just so I could hear Elijah say his lines ...

Okay, will try and catch up with you all again when I'm feeling better. Nice start to the froshadowing, Ariel. Of course. ;)

And for shame! The Faculty doesn't have a Frodo yet on its second page? :o :D Well, we'll all just gaze upon this Frodo then.

http://www.imagemagician.com/images/ainon/LoTR/Frodo.jpg

This world was never meant for one as beautiful as you

Oh my Eru, Louise. That is so very very Frodo! If swooning was ... hmm, almost said "allowed" but that word really sticks in my craw right now;) ...BTW, what IS a "craw" anyway, and how did that word come into the language?...now where was I...oh, never mind!:rolleyes:

Still a bit flighty and disorganized from all the weirdness at the blue place.

It's so good to see familiar names and avatars gathering here. Non=ainon; that one's easy. Vita=peaceweaver. How about VP for short?:D And Cadmo=Primrose, which is easy because of the leaf avatar. Juliebeth is a Haremite and a lovely, lovely person. Louise, do I know you from somewhere else? Perhaps by a different name?

How about, "appropriate", Goldie? Where you're just showing respect for other people's preferences, rather than refraining from doing something that's actually wrong. ;)

And I am utterly wiped today; between the CoE mess and my infink's cold keeping me up all night, I wouldn't know a coherant thought if I typed it.

Very, very glad to see you here, ainon. :k

Okay, maybe I do know a coherant thought after all. :)

tgshaw hasn't been to CoE since the 4th, last time I checked - keep meaning to see if she's registered here but I think I'll go start up the crock pot and take a nap, instead.

I could let this whole post go like this, I suppose, but I guess I'll ask a sort-of on-topic question - anyone remember the piccies I posted way back at Imladris, that I conned Bridget into putting on her website? Should I do them again, or were they too silly? They weren't the usual nifty sort of collection you guys do, but then again, some of them would be appropriate to the presumably upcoming Chain of Fools discussion.

Hubby was griping about our not having watched that yet just this Sunday - can hubbys have Faculty synchronicity? :cool:

And I suppose I should ask Bridget first; she'll have to send me the addresses again.

Sheryl

Oh, I found you! I found you! I'm so happy... *sniff*

I had been away from the CoE thread for several days due to ongoing problems with my computer, due to a viral infection (*snerk!*) and was stunned and heartbroken to see what had been happening over there. So, has it been decided to move here permanently? What exactly is going to happen? I'm so confused! :confused:

All I know is that I will follow you guys anywhere. The Faculty Lounge thread was such a find for me... I mostly lurk, but I revel in every moment! I just don't want to see it ruined because of some inflexible and overly strict rules.

So, someone tell me... should I stop going there and just hang out here? I already dropped in on the thread that Hobmom started over here, but I don't know if hers is a permanent move, either. Can anyone enlighten a lost and bewildered wabbit?


(Incidentally, my computer is suffering residual damage from the viruses that it had, and I am unable to see most of the pictures that are posted here, for some reason. I hope that my hubby will be able to fix what ails it this weekend...)

Hi Gang! I'm Baaaaack! It is so good to have a new home!

I dont know that I will ever go back to CoE. The Mods have lost their collective minds if you ask me. :rolleyes:

I really don't have time to post much tonight, but it is great to see everyone here. Maybe soon CoE will just become a bad memory.

Hi everyone! Bunnie ((((Hugs!)))) Glad you found your way here. (Was just about to post this and saw...MsUnderhill! Hi there MsU!

shilohmm - that Good Son pic I posted looks to me like a promotional photograph, I think it looks too posed to have been in the movie! I don't remember seeing them like that anyway, smiling for the camera! :D

I've got a window open at CoE aswell, I don't know maybe it's me but it seems quieter there just now and it's like a ghost town at The Faculty :(

non (I thought, this girl's posting here like she's a Faculty regular and knows everyone, but I've never heard of her before, then I went back and I actually bothered to read the start of your post and then I saw that you're ainon! Duh!) Hope you're feeling better soon!

As far as I know Flipper is still on rental at my local videostore. So far I've resisted the temptation to get it out... Not sure if they've still got Child in the Night though, I should've got it out when I had the chance. Maybe I could ask if they've still got it lying somewhere... BTW - I never knew that the TV version of Flipper's themetune was in the movie version! I don't know if that would suit the style of the film...It suited the TV series though, I used to love watching Flipper, every Sunday - that and Gentle Ben. :)

Has TT&T been released in the UK does anyone know? Not that I exactly want to see it if it's as bad as some people say (even if EW is doing TT's voice). I was in Woolies with a friend the other day and we were looking at videos and I had a quick glance (hoping no-one would notice) at the rows of children's videos for sale but I couldn't see it. All you folk with kids have a great excuse to watch Flipper and other child-orientated EW videos!

Elve - what a coincidence! That's spooky you got that audio tape. It's a shame if it's no longer available. I love his voice, it is so soft and relaxing. I could listen to him reciting the telephone directory! Also, one bit that I love about the Good Son. I'll put a Spoiler just in case.

Good Son Spoiler (Maybe)







The bit when Mark is reading the bedtime story to Connie, he just sounds adorable! Especially when he goes 'boo-hoo hoo!'






Maybe that didn't need a spoiler, it's not really pivitol to the story but there you go.

Also, Elve - good choice of question about the dolphins! I expect he'd be interested in answering that one, he seems to love animals. And


Blossom - I should hopefully be getting Bumblebee in the next 2-3 weeks, fingers crossed! I'm really looking forward to seeing it, it sounds great and things are a bit quiet on the EW-front pre-TTT so I need a fix! I've not see froggy Frodo and Bilbo for a week or so - in fact I've never seen Bilbo at all but my mum assures me he's there but he dives down to the bottom whenever someone goes too near! Frodo just sits there, he's not bothered by us staring at him, he even let my brother touch him! He is quite charming for a frog that's true! No blue eyes though! :p

Goldenberry: Louise, do I know you from somewhere else? Perhaps by a different name?

I don't know. I'm usually Louise (at CoE and over at TORN), but often I don't register if it's not required. Up to now, I haven't done a lot of posting because by the time I get to the computer at night I'm usually too tired to be coherent. I'd rather "listen" to the Faculty members instead. But recently, due to the new trailer coming out and to a couple of the boards requiring you to register, I figured I might as well post if I went to all the trouble to put my name in. So you lucky people get to be the recipients of my opinions, instead of my usually silent "lurking".

Oh, and I'm Rosemary at TORC because Rose was taken. It was the only "plant" name I could think of since all the flowers from LOTR were already taken. :) I started out trying to be all LOTR-related but found it too hard to find an unclaimed name from Tolkien.

Did anybody see the secret review of TTT over at TORC? Do you think it's for real? The part about Frodo sounds intriguing.

SPOILER, sort of





Apparently Woods' potrayal of Frodo by the end of TTT is harrowing and makes him wonder just how dark this portion of the tale will become in RoTK.

Sounds like we're gonna need two crying towels just for TTT.

Over and out.

Louise

Originally posted by Louise



Sounds like we're gonna need two crying towels just for TTT.



Oh dear oh dear oh dear!:( :( :(

Fortunately, there is relief for an excess of angst: Chain of Fools. What a hilarious time! A bit of fluff involving stolen rare coins, an innocent barber, a hitman in training, a host of other strange characters, and a convoluted plot that all fits together very nicely. It's structured in a time-jumping manner similar to 'Memento' or 'Pulp Fiction'.

And Elwood has never looked better, of course.;) :) :p

Hi guys!

If I can tear hubby away from "Space Ghost, Coast to Coast" we'll probably watch Chain of Fools tonight.

tgshaw is at the CoE, and she's had a terrible weekend. :( I hope to see her here soon.

I'm glad to see you here, too, Bunnie Bugs - I was gonna PM you when I saw you over at CoE. I've lost my list of who I've contacted already. :rolleyes: Someone organized should oughta be doin' this.

Oops, hubby's torn himself away, gotta go!

Sheryl

Thanks for all the hugs and welcomes over here. Makes me feel all warm and gooshy, whereas the CoE just chills me, lately. :(

I still fail to see how our topic didn't fit with the rules for the Pony. Was it because we combined several topics into one thread, and they thought that each topic should be kept separate and in its own little compartment? How can an off-topic thread in an off-topic area be considered off-topic?!? I don't know. But I don't feel very welcome over there. I hope they're more lenient around here.

I don't know if you've all held some sort of Moot to try to make some decisions about where you want this thread located, but here's my vote: I honestly don't think that there's a place for this discussion as it stands over at the CoE. They are determined to split it up into different topics. I have not looked around here enough to know the rules, so I don't know if we'll fit in any better here than we did there. But I'm not liking it over there very much, right now. So I'd have to vote for here.

I'm attempting to attach my Casey pic here, as it looks like the file size should fit on an attachment. If it doesn't show up, I'll just edit this out. (Edit: Oh, oh, it worked! Whoo-hoo! Consider it my thank-you gift for welcoming me here! {{{{{The Faculty}}}}})

Hi all,
I've finally managed to get registered here. It certainly looks like this will have to be a new Faculty home if everyone wants to continue the kind of discussion, digressions and all, that went on in the old place. I'm still going to post in the other one, just to try to keep it going for the sake of any new CofE members who want to join in. I'll find it difficult to curb my tendency to ramble off the subject, but I guess I'll just learn to stringently edit my posts before I hit the submit button.
I think I understand the new model that the owners/managers of CofE want to impose, but it's impractical.

The term "off-topic" led me to ponder the variety of subjects that have been brought up in this discussion (e.g. art, child performer labor laws, religious symbolism, the morality of internet gossip, etc) and why we feel the need to make so many digressions. Our perceptions of a performer, performance, or work of art, are frequently subjective, informed by our differing backgrounds, tastes, temperaments, educations, beliefs, ages, national cultures, etc., and without some reference to these influences, our remarks or opinions on a given performer or work would be read out of their true context, be less meaningful, and possibly subject to misinterpretation. I sometimes disagree with opinions expressed here, but I can better understand other peoples' points of view when I have been exposed to their interests and views on a broader range of subjects.
Anyway, that's my two (off-topic) cents on the subject. I'm sure you're all sick of the whole business by now!

Can't wait for the Ash Wednesday reviews, both fan and professional. I'm afraid the NY Times critic (unreconstructed film snobs, they all are) will be tough on it (I just have a gut feeling) , but hopefully the LA times will be kinder.
Man, I love me some Ed Burns!! The banana scene in The Brothers McMullen always cracks me up....

P.S. (off-topic) thank your, Sheryl, for all the emailing and coralling of folks. May I say that in being a Space ghost fan, your husband shows exquisite taste and a refined sensibility :cool:

Hi! it's viola here using Prim's computer...lurking on the new site. Prim's getting me up to date with the kerfuffle over at CoE....hmmm, grrr -I was really starting to enjoy posting and lurking so am really sad that it got to this. why spoil a good thing??
I agree that if everyone else is happy here, and the rules are more lenient and allow the community to grow and enjoy each other's company, this is where we should stay!
oh, and the absence due to RL and the wet trout? ...more like a load of them -anyone got a recipe for trout???
LOL ;)

Prim here: grabbed my computer back. ;)

Its so cool to see the troops come back in -yay wildgoose and Bunniebugs.
We are still rambling at Hobbiton (see previous posts here and at Co E) but it is looking more and more like we will be here. Still, go to HH and have your say if you feel passionate about it.

Viola here -I want the last word ! :cool:

Yeah right_ Prim :)

Hey Luthiea. I'm trouting you. You're supposed to read the start of posts! At least! ;) Yeah, I'm feeling much better, thanks. I've decided to see there's a good thing about getting these danged migraine attacks. Sorta. Since I'm stuck at home; can't go to work, that gives me the opportunity to watch whatever I wanna watch on TV - once I can drag myself outta bed, that is. So I spent the day watching hobbitised FoTR. The hobbitised FoTR is a shorter movie, which thus allows me ample time to rewatch the whole hobbitised FoTR all over again. And again. :D I'm wondering what I'm going to end up doing in the cinema when I'm watching TTT for the n-th time and there's a stretch of non-hobbit scenes to contend with. I am looking forward to when I get the TTT DVD and start with the hobbitised version of TTT.

Well, just catching up with this thread tonight. Big *HUGS* to everyone and welcome 'home' again to all who've just made the trek over from the CoE. :) :)

Uh ... so Cadmo is now Primrose and Viola? :)

Originally posted by Elevensies
Hey, I kept forgetting to say in the old lounge that this month's Premiere is a 15th-anniversary issue, and they have various "Best of" categories. Elwood was in the top six of "Best Child Performance" for The Good Son. No surprise to any of you, I'm sure.

Thanks for the info. I saw that magazine. I flipped through it, looking for EW's name. I didn't see this. I should trout myself for this abysmal failure to spot EW's name. I suppose I should take this as a lesson. I should have bought the mag instead of trying to speedread it for free. Nah ... :p

Originally posted by Ariel
Speaking of movies - I now have DVDs (and can get still images of) Huck Finn, Bumblebee, The Faculty, Ice Storm, The War and DI (as well as LOTR, though you guys probably guessed that!) If you want a screen cap and have patience, I can probably get it for you.

Ariel, considering the sick crowd you're hanging out with here, you should know that any scene that has him in any angstful situation whatsoever deserves to be screencapped. What do you mean that's too much?! :D

Are we discussing the trailer? Are we are we are we are we?


Louise, we're honoured to be the recipients of your opinions. 'Harrowing' ... oh, we're gonna need LOTS of tissues for sure, and do you think it's premature to start wondering about the Oscars ... not that we put much stock in those awards, but hey, I'm sure we wouldn't mind a nomination this time around ...

I've got the van Gogh song stuck in my head. But I don't mind - I've always kinda liked the tune, and now I have the nice proper hobbit to go with it. :)

Wonderful to see you all here! But we have to get tg over here, too.

Yep, Goldie and I had a blast with Chain of Fools. (Thanks to the ever wonderful Elve! ) What a silly movie! But it is well written and smart, and really well constructed. You move back and forth in time, and encounter all manner of foolish individuals. I think this film demonstrates Elwood's comic timing and delivery. We wantsses more comedies, Elijah!

I also think that Warner Bros. (which owns this film) is missing the mark by withholding this film from an American audience. Given that the actors in this film (Tom Wilkerson, Jeff Goldblum, Selma Hayak, and Elijah Wood) are all much higher profile names now than they were when the film was made, they should no longer just sit on it, but release it! Are you listening, Warner Bros? Hel--lo??

Yes, Vita, we do have to get tg over here and LEK. Does anyone know what might be their main reservations? Anyway, I posted on that subject at HH if anyone is interested.

As for the new people who are unfamiliar with this message board - it has been acting as the 'temporary home' for Imladris/CoE for as long as I have been posting. Most of the time, poor Moggy gets swamped by CoEers only when CoE goes down, and then they all leave. He has probably been feeling a bit used (I know I would) and for that reason also, I would prefer to stay here. He's been very nice... and seems a more reasonable sort than you know who.

As for what are the rules... it is more relaxed here and off topic is tolerated VERY well. They are a pretty nutty bunch, but very sweet and though we may have a drive by poster dropping something silly in, they don't mean anything ill by it. (and it is likely that if we ask nicely, they will refrain from even that :p )

The thread seems to belong here in Community Cafe, and though the nature of our discussion tends to be more serious(ish) than much of the rest of this site, they do know how to be serious too. (Check out Rivendell). I think after an initial period of adjustment (and I doubt it will take that long even) I believe we will fit in here just fine.

MsU!!! Darlin' woman - I am ever so glad to see you here! Your reaction was indeed my own and I think it will be quite a common one as more people find out what has transpired. (((((HUGS))))) In one of the other threads on this board, a regular KD poster had reservations about accepting us here, figuring (like has happened before MANY times) that we would use this place as a temporary space until we got over our spunk - THEN he actually went and read the "Ask Mods" thread - and not the one that got deleted (wish I'd saved that! Oh, man!) - and had to agree that we were being treated VERY unfairly and should stay. My point is, if someone already a little 'prejudiced' against us could see our point, it should be CRYSTAL clear that we have been misused to an impartial viewer.

Sigh... I was supposed to talk about EW in this post... Seriously, my mind has not been on swooning or the dear geek boy for the past week. I am in SERIOUS need of a new movie... perhaps I too will be looking in Amazon for "Ash Wednesday" on DVD... Has anyone heard if "Try Seventeen" is on the horizon yet either? I am in desperate need of a new film - and December (even November!) is too darned far away!

Ariel

Hi again. Welcome back Bunnie, Non - glad you're feeling better (all that Hobbity Fotr must have helped!), Eagle's Eyrie, Munderhill, Wildgoose. Hello Viola and Prim - hope you are both coping with RL.

Where IS Tg?

Luthiea - Amazon.com gave me a delivery time of about 3 weeks for Bumblebee, but it arrived much quicker - about 10 days, so hope yours is speedy too! Can't wait to hear your views on it.

Louise. Oh, Elijah's harrowing Frodo is just what we want here! And Non, that pic you posted from TT is just lovely.

I still don't understand what happened over at C of E. When you consider the title of this thread - An Elijah Wood Discussion - I thought that was what we were doing. If Frodo, Casey & co had to be put on different threads I would never keep up. Thanks to Moggy and everyone here for letting us in, hopefully as we are.

Out of time now - have to be up REALLY early.

:(

See you soon:)

hi guys, this time i'm on violas laptop -we are at our mothers briefly-and its so weird i keep accidentally popping up all sorts of stuff, so am reduced to typing only in lower case. :rolleyes: so humiliating. too high tech for this old brain...

sheryl- i don't actually remember those piccies, can you explain further......damn,now i can't even use the question mark, ? ok found it!!! Cool, now I can do caps.too..:)

ainon- yes, a trailer discussion would be cool.I still haven't down loaded it, losing my connection, for some reason it downloads much slower than the previous version but I will try again.

Greetings Ms U! Yes its all very strange.

I got a pm at CoE from tg so she will be around soon I'm sure. LEK posted in the old thread so she knows where we are and hopefully will pay a visit.

Am I correct in understanding that Chain of Fools is in the cinema but has not been widely released? Does anyone know how extensively it has been released. (hope,hope,hope..)

I must say I love the name of this forum-cool. :)

Crumbs, its taken me so long to type this on such an unfamiliar computer that I'd better leave now while my mum still loves me...(I'm thinking about the telephone bill here...)

will return later,

prim

Welcome, welcome...it is so good to see you all here. And I am certainly glad to be here too. :)

I am still waiting for Child in the Night which I ordered some time ago from Amazon and which has been on backorder forever. I think it is the only EW performance I haven't seen, with the exception of Try Seventeen and Ash Wednesday, which aren't available yet.

I LOVED Chain of Fools and thought it was a delightful farce. My hubby agreed that EW and Michael Rappaport (sp?) had the best roles. It looked like they were having so much fun, especially in...

SPOILER
the shootout in the hospital. The jumping and dodging was hilarious and very well planned and executed. And going off to see Cats together...not what anyone would expect of a couple of hit men.

Well, back to lurking. ;)

Originally posted by MsUnderhill
I am still waiting for Child in the Night which I ordered some time ago from Amazon and which has been on backorder forever.
I'm not familiar with this (film? TV show?). Could someone tell me a bit about it?

I LOVED Chain of Fools and thought it was a delightful farce.
I resorted to watching my downloaded clips of this again today. I am so hungry for new Elwood stuff! I would love to see this movie in its entirety, even though I've already seen all the bits with Elijah. He so cracks me up in this role. :D

So, Ash Wednesday will have a limited release, but nothing on Try Seventeen, yet. Are these people nuts? Don't they know how many people would flock to these films just to see Elijah? Look what Orlando Bloom did for Blackhawk Down... I know countless people who would never have seen that if it hadn't been for Orli's (rather small) part.

Hey there! Hope you're all doing good. Hi Viola (if you're still about!)

Blossom - I got a notification from Amazon, that's my video on it's way now! All the way from the good old USA! Yours came in 10 days eh? Brilliant :)

Elve (if I'm correct in thinking you're the right person to ask!) but I was wondering if you'd be able to PM me the password to your site if that's okay? Don't like to think I'm missing out on anything (too damn nosey for my own good!):o

Originally posted by Vita S-B
I also think that Warner Bros. (which owns this film) is missing the mark by withholding this film from an American audience.
Honey, they're missing the mark by withholding the film from a worldwide audience! :D ;) I think we should get a petition up about CoF - maybe they'd cave in to the pressure of a mob of deprived EW fans! Glad you and Goldie enjoyed the movie.

non - I know I'm bad :rolleyes: I was just skimming the posts and noticed the unusual name! hehe. 'Hobbitised' FOTR? LOL! :D

Bunnie - thanks for posting that Casey pic over here! That cheeky smirk he has! Child in the Night was one of EW's first movies (he was about 8 or 9?) a made-for-TV film I think. He plays a little boy who witnesses his father's(?) murder. I've not seen it yet but a few people here have so they'll be able to clue you in better than me, I probably got those details wrong! They had it at my local video store just after FOTR came out, but I've not seen it on the shelf for a while so I don't know if they've still got it or not.

Louise - I couldn't find the 'secret review' of TTT - is it at TolkienOnline?

I'm going to go now, I need to calm down a bit, I'm like an excited puppy - overusing the exclamation marks in my posts!

Edit - Elve, I just found this part of an old interview in which Elijah talks about the dolphins! Enjoy.

Elijah: 'In Flipper I play the role of Sandy Ricks. He's a city-kid and a bit of a problem child. Because he has trouble at home, he's going away to his uncle Porter (played by Paul "Crocodile Dundee" Hogan). So Sandy's going to his uncle and finally meets Flipper. That's what makes him come out of his shell.' Do you look like Sandy? 'Oh no, absolutely not! That's why I didn't say yes to this role right away. I think that Sandy is a negative person. A real brat. But because he changes in the movie, I thought it would be a real challenge to play the role. His uncle and Flipper make him less selfish. But fortunately I don't look like him. He's the kind of guy that listens to grunge and hates the world. After filming Flipper Elijah was very enthusiastic about it: "It's the climax of my career", he says. "I love working with the dolphins. There were three of them, and I miss them very much. They really became friends of mine." Working with dolphins is quite a job. Elijah: "You have to let them trust you. I've fed them for a while, talked to them and finally I could swim with them. After a while I had their confidence. It's really amazing if you're that far, that they are happy when they recognize you. When I came into the water one dolphin raised his tail to show me he was happy. It's great if they love you.'

for the thread with a report from someone who supposedly saw a rough cut of TTT.

http://www.tolkienonline.com/thewhitecouncil/messageview.cfm?catid=13&threadid=56414

I'm still not sure I believe it's for real, but you never know.

And you're right about "Child in the Night". He sees his father get murdered and has amnesia. Jo Beth Williams plays a shrink who works with him to get him to remember. Lots of angst. It plays on the Lifetime Movie Channel on cable about once every other month. If you want to see which Elwood movies are coming up, here's the place:

http://www.tv-now.com/stars/elijah.html

I think it's really strange that Chain of Fools hasn't at least come out on video here, considering the garbage they have in the video store every time I go there. And that includes the "latest movie hits", most of which are pretty bad. And it's not like there weren't a lot of good actors in "Chain". How much could it cost to put a few million video units in the stores, anyway? :D

{{{{Faculty}}}} Whew... made it (Now where's that water cooler?)

A very short history of the last 4 days for anyone who's still wondering--believe me, I wasn't intentionally avoiding CoE or the Faculty! I was supposed to be back from my mom's Sunday night. Instead, I hit a deer (or, a deer hit my car) and I ended up spending two lovely days in the hometown of Donna Reed (not a bad little town, but that's its only claim to fame) while the guys at the local body shop patched my car together enough that it could get me the rest of the way back to Omaha--it's still not fixed, but that's a long story. When I got home late yesterday afternoon, I turned on my computer to find many emails and "You have a PM" notices and spent the rest of yesterday catching up on all the recent fun. Today I kept HH opened most of the time so I could sneak in a peek or a post when my boss was busy elsewhere. I'd bookmarked KD only on my home computer, so finally registered here tonight.

Nice to see the thread hasn't changed--in that there's already so much being talked about that I can't possibly respond to everything :cool: ; I wouldn't know where to start! Thanks to all those who kept things together and got this started--Elve, Sheryl, Ariel, and I'm sure many more. And to those who came out of lurk mode to say hello--please don't stay silent! If anything here seems "intellectual" it's just a great tribute to our acting ability.

Ariel--great stills from the trailer! So much better than the ones that have been available.

Luthiea--Thanks for the Flipper interview; don't think I'd seen that one before, and EW says so well there what he really enjoyed--working with the dolphins. (Although he may have been a bit premature in saying, "It's the climax of my career." :) )

About Child in the Night--I got another notice from Amazon last week telling me it was delayed again, and that the projected date of delivery is now in early November. I agreed to the delay, of course--unless I see it available somewhere else, I'll keep waiting as long as they keep trying to get hold of it.

Well, I must get to bed. Still in a bit of recovery from the past few days (just tired and frazzled--I wasn't hurt physically at all, although I guess if the deer would have hit about a foot farther back it probably would have come through the windshield and things would have been different). There's much more to say, but I'll have to pick it up another time.

Just one last thing before I sign off: Frodo... Elijah Wood... Frodo Baggins... EJW... Frodo... :D Gee, that feels good!

P.S. Louise & I must have been posting at the same time, and hers reminded me that The Faculty is supposed to be on the SciFi Channel tomorrow night (got to watch a bit of cable TV at the motel ;) ).

{{{{{{{{{TG}}}}}}}}}}

Thank goodness you weren't hurt. It's too bad about your car, though. I hope the insurance company buys you a new one. :) I can just see the accident form description: "Reckless ruminant sideswipes innocent driver". I think I've found the culprit, though. Check out this article:

http://www.collegian.psu.edu/archive/2001/10/10-23-01tdc/10-23-01dnews-6.asp

I'll bet he was driving with an expired license too. And it took him a whole year to get from Pennsylvania to Iowa. Shame on you, Bambi. :mad:

And yes, we love saying "Elijah, Frodo, Elijah, Frodo" as often as we want. Freedom of speech is one of the cornerstones of our nation, after all. :p

YEAH!!! TG made it! You were starting to worry me! And thank you for the kind defense you put up for my comments on the 'other place' - I tried to post a thank you to everyone but it was closed - and then when I did post it somewhere related, it got deleted (hmmmm...) - but I really did appreciate your stalwart defense... it warmed my heart!

Sorry about the deer! That happened to me just this last year. A nice 8 point too... nicer deer than I ever saw while hunting :rolleyes: . Thank you also for the compliments on the trailer pics.. my friend, the Mac user was teasing me that she could cap stills from the trailer as I was bemoaning the fact that I could not... so I fixed her... I bought the right software! :D Now I can cap as well as she can. HE HE HE. After this mess settles and I am less frazzled of nerves, I will hopefully be able to concentrate on the geekboy again and cap some more interesting images... Man, they give us 2 minutes of stuff and we can pontificate on it for WEEKS... :rolleyes: Only at the Faculty....

Did I mention I am glad we are all back together?! Now, if LEK can turn up it will be complete.

I am also wondering if we could finally, in this lull between new goodies, finally get down in earnest to continuing our Weathertop discussion? Did we finish? I have lots more stills and we didn't even get a chance to discuss the 'wild ride' and the problems that Arwen's use creates (or doesn't). Personally, I would still have prefered another gorgeous man playing Glorfindel instead of Arwen riding his horse, but... whatever... The mysterious disappearing green goo... the contacts... me wishing they had cut the scene at the ford a TEENSY bit longer so that I could watch him pass out... (yeah, I am sick... but he does it so well!)... the tricks they used to get EW to look so small next to the larger rider... the fact that Liv never even SAT on a horse... :rolleyes:....

So much more to discuss!

And welcome back to everyone else who made the long trek... and thanks again to Sheryl for doing the honors this time... Bravo - if I haven't said it already!

Ariel

Hold on... Are you saying that they actually closed the thread at "the other place?" I went over there not long ago, and saw that LEK had posted something. I don't think it was closed then, but I could be wrong.

And forgive my ignorance, but... what disappearing green goo?
:confused:

I know they didn't have Liv on a horse for the Flight scenes, but somewhere along the line she had to ride one. I read an interview somewhere where she talked about how they had to give her a really docile old horse to work with, because the first one they put her on was too spirited for her.

Anyway *quickly trying to think of a way to get this back on topic...* I never thought about the passing out at the Ford, thing. At least we get to see him pass out elsewhere? Speaking of which...

Did anyone but me think that the scene where Frodo is stabbed by the cave troll just drags on too long? The part where he's gasping, before he passes out, I mean. I can't recall whether it bothered me the first time or not, but in subsequent viewings, it just seemed gratuitous to me. Is it just me?

Is any one else having trouble with the quote function? I couldn't get it to work without manually typing the html.

posted by bunnie
Hold on... Are you saying that they actually closed the thread at "the other place?" I went over there not long ago, and saw that LEK had posted something. I don't think it was closed then, but I could be wrong.

I think Ariel was referring to her goodbye thread. The lounge is still open. In fact, the most recent post is by Melkor himself.

Luthiea, thanks so much for posting the dolphin quote!! I love the last line: "It's great if they love you." Oh what a total sweetie pie he is. What I would give for some behind the scenes footage of him working with the dolphins. Do you know what article this interview came from, or when it took place?

tg, I am so sorry to hear about the accident. Good luck with getting your car fixed. We are all just glad you're safe and sound and back with us! :)

posted by cadmo
Am I correct in understanding that Chain of Fools is in the cinema but has not been widely released? Does anyone know how extensively it has been released. (hope,hope,hope..)

CoF has never been released in a theater anywhere in the world as far as I am aware. Ash Wednesday is being released tomorrow in NY and LA, but so far no word on a more widespread release. They will probably wait to see how it does in those cities.

Well, I will probably be scarce over the next week as this is my busy work week. I have one week out of each month where I actually have to go to work! :eek: Normally I work at home and can keep up with internet stuff, but our students are in class one week out of each month and I have to physically go there. And boy do they take a lot of tending (as well as the faculty) so I usually don't have much time for anything else when they're around. It's funny, I was talking with our school's head faculty member, who also happens to be my best friend and a movie geek like me, and he wants to get the movie poster of "The Faculty" to hange up in our Faculty Lounge at the school... you know I wouldn't have problems with that. :p

Elve, I think CoF was released theatrically in Sweden (that's where the directors and/or production company are from IIRC) but nowhere else. That was awhile back, of course.

BB--From what I can figure, the "skewering" is pretty accurate if you want to compare it to real life. He's not being wounded--he's had the breath knocked out of him, so he's slowly losing consciousness from lack of oxygen (oooh, that can be a pretty angsty thought, right there, eh?). It wouldn't be immediate. And it's also very possible that he'd lie there until Aragorn turns him over, as that would let him get his breath again.

Now, whether the slow motion is necessary is another question. Also whether being true-to-life is the best thing in those shots. Maybe speeding things up would have been better? As some people brought up in the Ice Storm discussion, sometimes it's better to adjust medical science somewhat for the audience.

BTW, something else came to mind recently about that...

ICE STORM SPOILER









Wouldn't Mikey have died with his eyes open? By the time his body's found, wouldn't that be "set"? (Now, that could be a real acting challenge: "Mr. Wood, just how long can you go without blinking?")

The wonderful, wonderful Moggy gave me back my name! I'm ainon again. Moggy, thank you so very much!! :k :)


Ariel, when you told us that your kids got access to TTT spoilers, did you mean these? From Disney (of all sources!), and posted at TORN, SPOILERS for TTT: what SA says (http://www.theonering.net/movie/scrapbook/large/4909) and what EW says (http://www.theonering.net/movie/scrapbook/large/4910). I like Sean Astin very much. He's revealing a lotta stuff here (compared to EW, who's annoyingly determined not to spoil us. really!). Shall we pontificate on just what SA is talking about when he says what he says in that first answer? :)

{{{{tg}}}} So glad to see you've made it here.

And {{{{Sheryl}}} too. I keep forgetting to thank you so much for opening up our new home here. :cool:

Louise ... LOL!!

Bunnie, have you gotten your DVD player yet? When you have it - watch the flight to the ford. Watch Frodo on horse with Arwen. Watch for close-up of Frodo reacting to Nazgul reaching out to grab him. And :eek: you'll see the green goo dribbling out of his mouth and eyes. :eek: :eek: :eek: I have a fine appreciation for angst and signs of injury, but I draw the line at any bodily fluid that's not red in colour. I mean ... :eek:

(yes, I'm discovering that the smiley limit here is set way high. I'm going smiley crazy)

And no, we never finished the Weathertop discussion :o and yes, we do so have a lot more to discuss and well, yeah, now that you mention it Ariel, the editing at the ford could have been improved so that we could have seen him pass out, and well, Bunnie ... I dunno, could any scene where Frodo is gasping and passing out ever be gratuitous? :D

No, I mean that seriously. :p Well, okay, the first time I saw the scene at the cinema, I thought the slow-mo stretched for too long. It was cut that way to accomodate the reaction of the other members of the fellowship. I've been okay with the scene ever since, but I recall this is one of the scenes that inspired pages of discussion back at the old Imladris movie board. I guess we could easily restart that discussion here. ;) edit:I was writing off-line as usual. So anyway, I see tg has started that discussion already. And started a new post-mortem topic. :D I doubt he'd have had the chance to close his eyes ...


Oh, Bunnie thanks for the Casey pic. Blossom - are you going to try posting your screencaps now? :)

And congrats on the new screencap software, Ariel. Yup, I too was thinking that your screencaps captured the more 'proper' Frodo moments than the 'standard' ones we've seen so far. ;)

Originally posted by ainon
Ariel, when you told us that your kids got access to TTT spoilers, did you mean these?

Yep... I have toddlers... can you tell? HE HE HE

Possible Spoilers....











The one thing that kind of caught me off guard was the "Sam confronts Frodo" bit... WTF? I am interested in what is meant by that - although I am HOPING they will limit it to simply Sam's insisting that Frodo eat... something they have hinted that he addresses in the Extended Version. THAT would be in character, though any other kind of confrontation I can imagine would not be.





Would love to write more, but work calls. :rolleyes:

Ariel

Ok, geeky forensic details ahead - you're all going to think I'm a freak that I know these things!! And it's probably more than any of you wanted to know....

Re: eyes open or closed after death

If the eyes are open at death, they stay open. If they are closed at death, they will still usually partly open or fully open after death (sometimes immediately, sometimes over time.) There are two reasons for this: the muscles in the eyelids actually leave the eye open when relaxed, (the muscles work to keep the eye closed when sleeping) and when the body fluids pool after death and tissue changes start to occur, the tissue around the eyes starts to 'shrink', thus pulling the eyelids back. This is why people used to put coins on the eyes of the dead during wakes, etc. - to keep the eyelids closed. (Morticians sew them shut now.) And I won't go into more detail, because I don't know that you really want to explore the finer details of tissue changes after death...

So Mikey's eyes would almost surely have been open, at least partly - but I agree that lividity and dead eyes staring at you are harldy the cinematic features they would have been willing to explore in the final scenes of The Ice Storm!

Told you it was more than you wanted to know!

You know, anyone just wandering into this thread might think we were sorta... nuts or something, what with all the angst appreciation and the forensic detail. Not that there's anything wrong with that! ;) (Narya, my hubby loves forensics, too!)

I dunno, could any scene where Frodo is gasping and passing out ever be gratuitous? LOL! I might have known! But, point taken. I guess I just thought that the slo-mo was unnecessary, and prolonged it more than necessary. But then, I knew he wasn't going to die, whereas a newbie might not, and would therefore be caught up in the suspense of that moment.

And thanks for the "real life" comparison, tg. I guess I never thought about how long it would actually take to pass out from such a blow!

I am undecided about looking into the above posted "spoilers" for TTT. Hmmm... what's my willpower like? At the moment, fairly strong, but there's that nagging voice that wants to know, dadgummit! I would rather be surprised, of course, but...

Oh, and no, :( I don't have my DVD player yet, ainon (yay! glad you got your name back!). It was supposed to be our anniversary present to each other next week, but due to unforseen circumstances, it wasn't in the budget this time around. I have my fingers crossed for next paycheck... I am determined to have it before the November release, even if I have to beg, borrow or steal to accomplish it! So there. :eek:


;)

Originally posted by BunnieBugs
... I am determined to have it before the November release, even if I have to beg, borrow or steal to accomplish it! So there. :eek:


:eek: Be sure and write to us from jail, Bunnie... ;)

Louise,
Now I've got "Starry Starry Night" (or whatever that song is called) going in my head. Nice change from "Flipper." ;) The only visual I've seen of Vincent is a self-portrait from the mid-range wierd phase.

Luthiea,
You haven't seen Flipper yet? [spooky far-away voice] Luthiea, come to the light - Come to the LIIIIIIGHHHT.[/spooky voice] The plot is quite immaterial, y'know - it's the visuals that matter. Although I confess Paul Hogan doesn't bug me much - the chirpy blonde girl does, but it's the writing not the actress... and she's so obviously acting somehow.

ainon, now would be a good time for the sillouette pic, don't you think?

Goldie,
I haven't see "Momento" or "Pulp Fiction" (prior to LOTR It'd been 9 years since I'd seen a movie in the theatre :eek: ), but I really liked the way the movie kept working "backward" in time the first half. Hubby and I kept muttering about how the lead actor looks like the guy who played MacGyver - down to mannerisms, even (the MacGyver character sometimes played a geek, using the same sort of moves). EW's character is brilliant, I thought, although all the performances were good enough for me on first viewing. It wasn't as tacky as I'd expected. :p

I'm really looking forward to Try Seventeen now, though. EW should do more comedy. Then again, he's so goooood at the angsty stuff... Decisions, decisions... The trials of the talented. I'm wondering if he may be having a tough time getting anything else going because everyone knows he's "on call" for LOTR and he doesn't want to sign up for anything that might interfere with that. Most of the stuff he's done since were very short shoots, seems to me.

Bunnie,
The Casey chair pic always makes me chuckle. I don't remember what he's saying or why he gives that look at that point, though - just has good feelings connected to it for me.

Ariel,
I'll vote for more Weathertop discussion. (Was there any doubt? :D) Although with ainon I'd like more trailer talk, too - but there are some who have not downloaded it and don't intend to? I'm avoiding most spoilers, but I can't resist the trailers. :o

I'm so glad to see most people are making it over here. :) It's starting to feel like home again.

Sheryl

Good evening!

Thanks for those EW and SA interviews, ainon! One thing that made me think (and I don't do that very often :p ) was this part of EW's interview -


I don't know if there's a Spoiler code we can use here, like they use at CoE? Anyway for anyone who doesn't want to read this here's a possible SPOILER -










Question - "What scary creatures does Frodo encounter?"
Elijah - " The scariest thing is a secret".
He then goes on to talk about Gollum. Is anyone else thinking what I'm thinking? ;) It states that this is an interview about TTT, but everyone knows that that pivitol scene I'm thinking about is supposed to be getting held back till ROTK, or is it?! Or is EW talking about the films as a whole? Hmmm...








End of SPOILER

tg - glad you're here and you're okay! You must've got a horrible fright when that deer jumped at your car. (((((Hugs)))))

Elve - I found the dolphin stuff at an EW site called thatsyours.nl

shilohmm - No I've not seen Flipper yet but always have a quick look at the video box on the shelf at the video store! They sometimes show it on the TV, especially at Xmas time. I remember seeing a clip for it on TV and thinking that girl looks really annoying! I suppose I could just pretend that she's not there if I see it.

Louise - thanx for that link for the TTT rumours, wooo! I'm just reading through the entire thread - all 11 pages of it. A lot of people sound skeptical about it but, hey, all will be revealed in 2 months time! I can't wait, yay!

Cheers,

Luth

From Narya:
Told you it was more than you wanted to know!
Huh? Eh?? What??? :confused:

ainon--so glad you got your whole name back: "non" just seemed so... empty. Makes me think of a few lines of a poem (I don't remember the author and I think there's quite a bit more that's gone from memory) which made me chuckle under the present circumstances. Maybe it could be dedicated to the "Faculty Three":
I'm nobody, who are you?
Are you nobody, too?
Don't tell them, though...
They'd banish us, you know :p .

The EW and SA interviews from Disney were interesting... they had misspellings I've never seen before. Is this supposed to be helping children improve their reading :( ? I thought of the 8-legged one, too, when EW said the scariest thing was a secret--think we might get a glimpse of her in TTT? Maybe the scene when Gollum goes to her, or a brief look as F&S contemplate the tunnel--so the audience sees what's ahead?

I've been trying to think of another time Sam "confronts" Frodo in the book, and haven't thought of one--although Sam doesn't always hold his tongue about how he thinks Gollum should be treated. And they do disagree about the rope (which SA seems quite taken with :) ). Depends on what's meant by "confrontation"--it could be something quite minor. Or a change in the sense of a line, which PJ seems to enjoy doing (Galadriel's "one who has seen the Eye" is quite innocuous in the book).

POSSIBLE ROTK SPOILER








When the Tolkien language expert reported on watching the Cirith Ungol scene being filmed, he said a good part of a day was spent on getting Sam's line about Frodo not being able to go walking in Mordor in "naught but his skin" just right. I think he used the word "terrible" when talking about the combination of emotions finally put into that line. The line in the book never struck me that way at all--it just seemed like practical Sam trying to figure out what to do next. So just about anything could be ratcheted up to a confrontation with PJ working on it. -- Not that that's necessarily a bad thing; depends on what it is!



END SPOILER



Anything specific from Weathertop that we haven't discussed yet? Or that needs a repeat look? The struggle with the WiKi over the Ring, maybe?

--delurking briefly--

Hi everyone,

I have been a lurker of the CoE boards since right after LOTR came out last year, following many threads intermittently, but being particularly faithful to all of the EW/Frodo threads (I've been following Elijah's career since I first saw him in Paradise). The Faculty has always been my personal favorite, and I was greatly dismayed at what looked like the demise of that thread. I'm so happy to have found you all here.

I just wanted to say thank you for giving me countless hours of joy, laughter and tears, to say nothing of all the breathtaking pictures that grace this thread on a daily basis. You don't know me, but I feel like I know you all, and my days would be a lot less interesting and fun if I didn't have this place to come to. I suspect I'm not alone--that there are many of us out here quietly enjoying the banter, wit and insight we find here.

So on behalf of all my fellow lurkers, thanks again for not letting The Faculty disappear.

--re-engaging lurking mode--

Hi TG...missed you. Glad you were unhurt.

Emily Dickinson!

I'm nobody! Who are you?
Are you nobody, too?
Then there's a pair of us -- don't tell!
They'd banish us, you know.

How dreary to be somebody!
How public, like a frog
To tell your name the livelong day
To an admiring bog!


(I cannot tell a lie; I found the poem online, as my memory couldn't retrieve it, either!):p

Where to begin?
I've had to keep away too much due to RL issues, and now there's so much to comment on and so many to si hi to!!!

Shadow, nice to meet you. Thank you for the kind words, and I hope you do know that now you've delurked, you should *stay* delurked? Posting is fun! :)

(((((((((Faculty))))))))))

Tg, it's so good to see you here. I am so happy that you were not hurt in that deer accident. :)

Viola, Prim; - I'm thinking of you both and your mother. I hope things go as well as can be arranged under the circumstances.


Elve, thanks so much for the E-mail that gave me info on what's been posted at HH: Some of it was an eye opener and no mistake. Makes me love all of you even more! (Am I getting too sappy? :rolleyes: )
And I am *so* looking forward to that detailed Ash Wednesday review at your site. Luckily I should be able to access *that* at least! Grumbles angrily at decrepit old computer and ditto software......

Narya, I don't know whether I am morbid, but I read your forensic info and find it plain interesting. So, Mikey should have had open glassy eyes, rigor mortis and there should have been lividity. OK. I guess sometimes it *is* possible to understand why movies gloss over reality. :D

In the same line of discussion, does anyone know whether Frodo's *recovery* in Moria is realistic? I can understand that Aragorn turning him round could help him breathe again, but he doesn't seem to be much bothered even directly after that. In the book he's lagging behind and continues having difficulty breathing, isn't he? That seems more realistic to me.


Ariel, I have had so little time online lately I did not get the opportunity to read your goodbye thread at the blue place before it was removed. A pity, because I would have liked to read all of it.

Ainon - congratulations on getting your name back! About the various spoilers, do you really think that SA reveals so much more than EW? I thought there were several very interesting bits in what EW says as well.

SPOILERS & SPECULATION
*
*
*
*
*
Describing the Dead Marshes as a "hostile environment with dead soldiers who come to life and try to take you under water" indicates that the Dead Marshes' dark spookyness will be cranked up a fair bit more than we've seen so far. Not only is Frodo mesmerized to the point of toppling face first into one of the pools, but apparently the soldiers in the pools will be moving, beckoning, or even trying to pull F&S under water? This sounds good IMO. (For some reason I can't help thinking of the dead people in "The frighteners" though, let's hope Weta has not fallen into the trap of reproducing those!!)

"The most scary thing" - could that be the close encounter between F, S and G and the Nazgul's flying steed that is mentioned on TORC (I think)? I honestly don't think Shelob will appear in TTT. Not only has PJ said she won't be there, but think of the CGI they've had to do for TTT anyway. This is the film with a *lot* of Gollum, and a *lot* of Treebeard, in addition to Wargs and the HD battle....

And the following sentence from TORC just makes me think: YES! YES! Ahem. I mean, it's interesting, isn't it..... :o :o
"Apparently Woods' potrayal of Frodo by the end of TTT is harrowing and makes him wonder just how dark this portion of the tale will become in RoTK." Don't we *all* wonder about that!
*
*
*
*
[ /SPOILER AND SPECULATION]

Well, the Disney spoilers made me flash to that old nightmare of mine, the Disneyfied LotR. I'm picturing dancing elves a la Bakshi's Legolas, marching trees booming a war song, cute hobbits on their travels with their little helpers the squirrel and the rabbit..... Gimli looking like Grumpy, and a couple of cheerful Tom Bombadil sing-along songs.


One thing I've been meaning to say; - in relation to the beautiful "Angelic Fro" in Osgiliath: What an amazing event it really was that Elijah made all 3 films at just that age; still not *quite* a grown-up, still with that air of innocence and vulnerability.... And isn't it amazing that PJ had that vision of Frodo (most others would have been looking for someone a little older, I believe); - and was actually able to *find* someone who fit his vision of the role to perfection. And isn't it remarkable that PJ *recognized* that he'd found his Frodo when he met this cheerful, happy teenage actor, who seems to project no angstyness at all in RL?


I guess I should stop my ranting now. Have a good night, everyone! :)


Edit: Emily Dickinson; - one of my favourite poets. Thank you Bunnie!

Edit 2: LEK!!! It's good to see you here.

First things first: Maeg, your sig ROCKS! I love it.


Originally posted by Maeglian

In the same line of discussion, does anyone know whether Frodo's *recovery* in Moria is realistic? I can understand that Aragorn turning him round could help him breathe again, but he doesn't seem to be much bothered even directly after that. In the book he's lagging behind and continues having difficulty breathing, isn't he? That seems more realistic to me.
I agree -- he should have had bruised ribs, at the very least. It bugged me right off when he said, "It's all right. I'm not hurt." MY brain screamed, "The HECK you say!" Or something like that. Heh. I think they should have had him be at least a little hurt.


Well, I already gave in and read those spoiler interviews with SA and EW. Huh? What willpower? Heheh. They didn't spoil much, at least. But, dang! It just increases the anticipation, don't it?

Well, the Disney spoilers made me flash to that old nightmare of mine, the Disneyfied LotR. I'm picturing dancing elves a la Bakshi's Legolas, marching trees booming a war song, cute hobbits on their travels with their little helpers the squirrel and the rabbit..... Gimli looking like Grumpy, and a couple of cheerful Tom Bombadil sing-along songs.
Oh, the horror! When I read JRR's description of the original film treatment, I was appalled, and that wasn't even Disney. Now, I'll be the first one to cut Disney some slack, but thinking about what they might have done to this story just makes me feel vaguely ill...

One thing I've been meaning to say; - in relation to the beautiful "Angelic Fro" in Osgiliath: What an amazing event it really was that Elijah made all 3 films at just that age; still not *quite* a grown-up, still with that air of innocence and vulnerability.... And isn't it amazing that PJ had that vision of Frodo (most others would have been looking for someone a little older, I believe); - and was actually able to *find* someone who fit his vision of the role to perfection. And isn't it remarkable that PJ *recognized* that he'd found his Frodo when he met this cheerful, happy teenage actor, who seems to project no angstyness at all in RL?
I am constantly amazed at the apparent serendipity involved in all aspects of this production. Everything from finally getting the right sort of multi-picture deal, to the actors involved, just makes me love it all the more.

After an extremely long day, it is just wonderful to find you all here continuing our "research!" It tickled me to find a whole page :eek: of posts in just one day.

Yaay! The Faculty are back!!!

Welcome, Shadow! Once you take the first step and de-lurk long enough to make that first post, it then becomes easier and easier. Don't ever worry about having "nothing to say". That's never stopped me.:p

This is terrific--it feels like we've hardly missed a beat.

I was just gonna 'lurk' tonight, but having had Frodo's skewering in Moria brought up reminded me of a favorite part of the book that I would have loved to see included. I was a tiny bit disappointed to hear Frodo claim "It's all right. I'm not hurt", and then suffer absolutely no ill effects from the cave troll attack.

In the book, after Frodo finally, reluctantly lets Aragorn help him (stubborn little hobbit), it is Aragorn who discovers the mithril shirt. I love his laughing words "Look, my friends! Here's a pretty hobbit-skin to wrap an elven princeling in! If it were known that hobbits had such hides, all the hunters of Middle-Earth would be riding to the Shire."

That scene, in which Aragorn gently tends to both Frodo and Sam, with a little humor thrown in, speaks of his friendship and caring for the Ringbearer in a very sweet way, and it is one of the scenes that made Aragorn a real person possessed of human warmth, instead of a distant and rather stern aristocrat-in-hiding .

I also love the part of this scene in which Merry pipes in with his appreciation for Bilbo ("Bless the old hobbit! I love him more than ever.")

Ah well. If PJ had included everyone's favorite moments, FOTR alone would have been 9 hours long.

Not that there's anything wrong with that.:D

Hi Shadow!!
You don't know me, but I feel like I know you all... :eek: Dang I just knew we were being watched....and not just by mods either ...:D

Now you've posted Shadow, don't go back to the... err...shadows (sorry just had to get that in). To paraphrase a recent Sheryl post:
[spooky mesmerising voice] ....come.... to.....the.......light....[/end spooky mesmerising voice] :D

And isn't it remarkable that PJ *recognized* that he'd found his Frodo when he met this cheerful, happy teenage actor, who seems to project no angstyness at all in RL?
Yes Ainon, that really amazes me: Frodo is just so different from EW. Wouldn't I just love to see that auditioning tape, it must have been pretty good, despite the "cheesy" costume.

Goldie- I really love that part too: it makes Aragorn so much more human. It also gently shows how brave both Sam and Frodo are and how determined they are not to hold anyone back..

Maeglian- cut out the Disney stuff. I've got an indelible image of cute hobbits with animal helpers in my head now.:rolleyes: Its going to take a really intense TTT to erase that.
Happily; if the rumours are correct come December this icky image will no longer be a problem.

and thanks for the support people. Mum is in pain but managing. It was neat to have Viola here too. {{{Faculty}}}

But I love it!!:D I dont think I have ever read anything quite like this before. Personally I can live without all EW's other movies, but all this excruciatingly detailed analysis of the Tolkien movies is simply awesome. I wont be a contibuting day to day poster in this thread( I'm just to busy most of the time:() but like Shadow I will be reading everything that happens here:)

Ariel is right on the money in her post towards the beginning of this thread when she said people will be coming here now and again joking around, dont let it bother you they usually leave as fast as they enter.

Narya the bit of post-morten details was way cool:D I actually thought they superglued there eyes shut, but I suppose sewing is better, dont want those buggers popping open at the wrong time;)

I'm with ya Goldberry on the nine hour long movie wouldnt that have been something? It would have been more like reading the movie........hey an Elf can dream cant he??;)

from Silvan ElfPersonally I can live without all EW's other movies, but all this excruciatingly detailed analysis of the Tolkien movies is simply awesome

sweetie- you have no idea.

We've been slowly getting up to speed on our new Board.
You aint seen nuttin yet...

interrupt any time you like (we like a good laugh...:p )

re the s..l..o..w.. Frodo collapse at Moria- I also think this was to give time for the audience to absorb the imact on the Fellowship. From Gandalf's expression (anyone got a cap for this?) it seems like for a moment at least they believe all is lost. This is not at all to say that I think this scene works, at least fully. It does seem a little dragged out to me, but then as a Tolkein reader I know what's coming next. And I do think at the very least Frodo should be bruised and uncomfortable afterwards. (I think PJ should have hired me as a consultant. I could have done a good job and hey, I'm a native). I think Ew does a very good job at looking pained.

The same criticism could be levelled for the scene where Gandalf falls into the chasm. Could the Fellowship have rushed forward and saved him? Probably. But its irrelevant: its a dramatic visual pause for effect and serves much the same function as a rhetorical question.

Now I think about it: if Frodo did actually die in Moria (sorry ladies, I know this is a distressing idea) would the mission have failed? Who would take the ring and follow on? oops, perhaps this is another thread?

Hello lovely people.:D

Huge welcome to Shadow and Silvan Elf. Please feel free to jump right in any old time!

Maeglian, I agree with Bunnie, your sig rocks!

Did any of the US folks see The Faculty last night? I already own this movie and have seen it many many times, but there is something different about it being on television... it would be almost blasphemous to have it on another channel when EW is on! Does anyone else have this affliction?

posted by cadmo
if Frodo did actually die in Moria (sorry ladies, I know this is a distressing idea) would the mission have failed? Who would take the ring and follow on? oops, perhaps this is another thread?

It is my most humble opinion that Frodo AND Sam as a pair were the only ones in Middle Earth who could acomplish this. Call it destiny or whatever, but I think Gandalf, Elrond and Galadriel recognized it, and as much as he didn't want to acknowledge it, Frodo finally realized it too. (on the shore of the Anduin when he heard Gandalf's voice in his head.)

One thing that I think is interesting in the film is that Galadriel, the wise all knowing elf that she is, tells Frodo that he must do it alone, even though we all know that he couldn't have done it without Sam. I have often wondered if she couldn't see how important Sam was to the quest (though she did acknowledge him in the "yet hope remains" line), or if she knew Sam would take care of him anyway, and was simply trying to get Frodo to psychologically give up his dependence on the others and take responsibility for the task. Any thoughts on this?

Well, I am certainly glad to see that someone besides me hated that "I'm alright...I'm not hurt" line. I was looking forward to some real angsty moments, and he pops up like nothing happened! I think in my original viewing, I experienced my first teeny bit of outrage at the deviation from the book...and common sense. I've had the wind knocked out of me, I know you don't just pop back up, totally fine to run off to the next adventure. PJ rather dropped the ball on that one.

Not that I am knocking EW in anyway...I am sure he played it just as he was directed to. I loved watching his face as he was skewered, so to speak, but thought that PJ dragged that out just a tad too much too. Now, remember, these were my original thoughts. Having watched the film more than 50 times now, I have become accustomed to the scene and I don't jump up and leave the room in protest or anything. I do, though, sometimes cringe and think that changing just that one line would have made the movie much better. Hindsight is such a wonderful tool.

The spousal unit and I are getting ready to go off for a romantic weekend, and I think we are going to stop in Hannibal Mo on the way home. Nice place, and it always makes me think of EW as Huck Finn. He is such a cutie in that movie...:D

I've always felt the actual flashes back to Frodo during this scene went on one flash too many (we do understand what is happening!), but I think there are a couple of reasons for it that make sense - and particularly so for the non-Tolkienite viewer. There's an awful lot that gets established or reinforced in this scene - and the audience needs time to absorb it. I've actually watched other people in the audience during this scene - and I think they do need the time that is taken to understand everything they are being shown during this scene.

This is a crucial scene for the audience’s attachment to Frodo. I’ve heard more gasps of disbelief and shock from the audience when Frodo is attacked in Moria than at any other time in the movie. If he had indeed been ‘scewered’ like a ‘wild boar’, or run through, he would have collapsed immediately. The prolonged gasping lets the audience ‘think’ he’s been killed, and respond emotionally to that thought, but establishes a framework for the reality (he’s had the wind seriously knocked out of him) that lets them accept it when he is still alive – saved by the mithril coat. I believe this gut reaction from the audience helps establish a deeper attachment to Frodo, or reveal to them their attachment to this main character, which then increases their focus on him and ability to respond to him later in the film.

As well, there are a lot of character issues built into these few seconds of film. The first one to react is Gandalf – the look on his face when he thinks Frodo has been killed tells many things – not only his dismay because Frodo is so integral to the quest, but also I think a profound shock and grief because he loves him. The closeness of their relationship was shown well up to this point, but this one shot of Gandalf reinforces it so beautifully – and reminds us of their bond at a crucial point, so that when Gandalf falls in Moria, we understand and relate to Frodo’s overwhelming grief.

Sam’s response is not unexpected – but again reinforces the bond that they share. I’ve always thought it remarkably effective that Sam’s first reaction is to run to Frodo – and that after he falls down ‘dead”, Sam’s steps towards him become faltering, as is he can barely stand himself from the shock and grief – a very effective representation that an audience would instinctually respond to. The audience can understand fully then why Sam is so determined not to ‘lose’ Frodo later when he tries to go to Mordor alone.

Aragorn’s various reactions show how much he feels responsible for protecting Frodo – and I believe his reaction as he approaches him is partly grief, but more a reaction to his own failure to protect him (particularly after Frodo called out for his help while being attacked by the cave troll.) This sets up his willingness to let Frodo go at the end of the movie (together with other factors re: the lure of the ring) – he knows he will not necessarily be able to protect him even if he is with him. (I still have issues with this, but now is not the time to go into it.)

I also think when the members of the fellowship are all unable to rush to Frodo’s side to help him because they are still under attack and must continue fighting before they can aide him, it reinforces so incredibly well that Frodo has their support, but they are unable to completely protect him. Even accompanied by wizards and warriors, he is vulnerable – and when he is attacked, he is alone, and they are all unable to help him. This is a turning point in Frodo’s understanding of how much he can ‘rely’ on the other members of the fellowship – and absolutely crucial to his accepting what Galadriel tells him in Lothlorien, and his decision at the end of the movie.

So there’s my long-winded explanation of why the ‘gasping’ scene goes on as long as it does. I have to get dressed and go to work now, so can’t comment on the appropriateness of “I’m not hurt’ etc., but I’ve used up my share of bandwidth for this early in the morning anyway… :p :rolleyes: ;)

Welcome SE and Shadow! I knew MANY people lurked on the old Faculty - most of the haremites and lots more people besides. Many who weren't even registered. As I have stated repeatedly, the Faculty was the worthiest thread in that forum - and they chased us out. What fools these mortals be....

Their loss is KD's gain.

Anyway, I also agree with the "I'm not hurt" line being unrealistic - though, if you think about it, you can see why PJ doesn't dwell on Frodo's injury (though a wince or some indication that it still hurt wouldn't have been out of line either). They were still in danger - they still needed to do a lot of action - ie getting out of Moria, across the bridge, etc. and it was probably easier for PJ not to add the film complication of the injury until they had a pause to view it later.

SPOILER FOR EXT VER.>

I remember hearing that in the scene outside of Lothlorien when the orcs attack them, Aragorn supposedly picks up Frodo and Sam and runs with them.
http://web.kcnet.org/arielshouse/fleeing_moria1.jpg
I know it was from one of the first trailers for FOTRs that was running about. There are other shots around - the ones with the arrows - that you can see Aragorn and Boromir carrying hobbits, but none of them are clear enough to tell who is carrying who. This scene COULD be to show that Frodo and Sam were lagging because they were injured. Though in the above picture, it looks as if one of the hobbits Aragorn carried is Pippin. Perhaps they did just carry all the hobbits - but it would give them a chance to show Frodo was suffering some after affects. It would add to the realism - at least in my opinion.

END SPOILER FOR EXT VER.>

Galadriel, the wise all knowing elf that she is, tells Frodo that he must do it alone, even though we all know that he couldn't have done it without Sam.

True, Elve, but Frodo always was the 'boss' behind the pair. The burden of going to Mordor lies on his shoulders alone. Even if he couldn't do it without Sam, it is his decision and his drive is what brings them to Mt. Doom. Sam would have done it ONLY if his master bade him... Frodo makes it a point time and again that he will go on even though he knows it will kill him. If Sam weren't following Frodo, or doing as he knew his master wanted, he would have had far more sense than to even step one foot in Mordor. Even when he takes the ring, it isn't ENTIRELY because he's out to save the shire or even the world, but mainly because it is the task his master 'died' trying to accomplish, and for that reason, he would see it through.

Cadmo - (PW!) that is a chilling thought and one I would love to explore. I think it would have failed actually - none of the other walkers would have been able to resist and none of the other hobbits (with the exception of perhaps Merry) would have had the drive to do what needed to be done without failing. And if Merry had taken on the ring, would he have had the friendship with Sam that would have sustained them through Mordor? I don't know - we never get to see much of their relationship in either book or movie, though it is an interesting concept.

OK... There is much to do today though I would much rather spend my time here. I have to make coming here a reward for work accomplished rather than a reason to procrastinate!

Ariel

Dang I just knew we were being watched....and not just by mods either

Didn't mean to make you feel paranoid. ;)

I've resisted posting because this thread moves so fast! I work from home, and already I spend way too much time here when I should be working. The Faculty is reduced on the bottom of my screen all day long as it is. But what the heck.

Regarding the skewering scene in Moria, I was sorely disappointed that Frodo didn't suffer from residual effects, as he did in the book. That's one of my favorite passages in the book, when he and Sam struggle to keep up with the company and end up lagging way behind. Just imagine how great a job EW would have done with that. He suffers so beautifully, and I can just imagine him, staggering along, trying to convince himself he can do this. What a loss that we didn't get to see that.

But I have no problem with the long gasping scene. I realized the first time I saw it that some people would feel it was overdone, but for me, it is one of the many (many!) scenes in the movie where my slow mo button gets a workout. Here's a question--can you wear out a CD by watching parts in slow motion again and again? If so, I'm going to need to buy a few copies of the extended version. :)

Originally posted by Elvellon
One thing that I think is interesting in the film is that Galadriel, the wise all knowing elf that she is, tells Frodo that he must do it alone, even though we all know that he couldn't have done it without Sam. I have often wondered if she couldn't see how important Sam was to the quest (though she did acknowledge him in the "yet hope remains" line), or if she knew Sam would take care of him anyway, and was simply trying to get Frodo to psychologically give up his dependence on the others and take responsibility for the task. Any thoughts on this?
I think this is one point where the changes from the book end up hurting the movie. Sam is there at the mirror in the book, and his experience with the mirror solidifies his commitment to going all the way to Mordor with Frodo. Maybe Galadriel even brings Sam along because she understands how crucial he is.

But in the movie, something has to give Frodo a nudge towards independence. (Book Frodo has a more independent personality from the start, and is constantly considering whether he should leave his friends behind for their own safety.) So the movie uses the mirror scene to give Frodo that nudge. But I don't know... the mirror scene just isn't very convincing of a motivation for me. And the entire Lothlorien sequence doesn't hold together as well as the rest of the movie does to me.

I've lurked on this thread off and on, too... I was a regular reader in Casting, and a less regular reader in the Pony, because I'm less interested in EW's other movies than in LotR. Or I should say, I'm interested in seeing what he will do in the future, because he is enormously talented, but I'm not willing to go to all lengths to try to find his earlier movies that aren't available at my video store.

But I'm glad you're here in KD. :)

Mel

Good-day to you all (and a very rainy one it is here, too!)

((((Prim and Viola)))) Thinking of you both.

Shadow! Silvan Elf! Hello to you! Please de-lurk now and then, it's great to 'meet' new people here! Shadow - I'm not sure about CDs being burned out but I reckon the demise of my last videoplayer was due to me constantly fast forwarding and rewinding little bits of movies here and there, and that was before FOTR! I hope this new one can hold out for longer ;)

The first time I saw the 'skewering' scene in Moria I felt like someone had skewered me aswell, I was feeling that myself! After seeing it several times, I did think his gasping went on a tiny bit too long, but I think it's kind of symbolic to show the viewer just what peril he's in and how terrible it would be if Middle Earth's only hope of destroying the Ring was gone. The same with Sam's 'drowning' scene at the end. Because I'd not read the books I thought Sam was a goner there *sniff* but then, although it looked like he'd drownded :p Frodo reached in and pulled him to safety - I think it was symbolic to highlight Sam's devotion to Frodo.

I'm very happy just now cause I just got a new job! It's only part time, because I'm still at college, working on the reception at a hotel. I start a week on Monday. So maybe I won't be about as much as usual, as it is shift work - will have to see how it interferes with my internet life! :p And I'm going away this Monday, just for 5 days for a little break.

I was lying in bed last night and somehow a question for EW popped into my head! Out of nowhere. I don't know, maybe it's already on our list or maybe he's been asked it before, but still. It is, "If Tolkien were alive today and you got the chance to meet him, what would you say to him or ask him?"

I was watching the Ice Storm this afternoon. I'll put a Spoiler here for anyone who's not seen it yet -


SPOILER






One thing I noticed, at the end after Mikey has died the Hood family go to pick Paul up at the train station. The family are sombre as they greet Paul and get back into the car. I don't know if anything has been said to him about Mikey or not. Then Benjamin Hood turns to look at Paul in the back seat. Paul kind of smiles at his dad, then Benjamin turns back and starts crying. I was wondering, is he crying because he's glad his son is still alive and despite everything that's happened he still has his family or is he crying because Paul (Tobey Maguire) looks so much like Mikey (EW) and he was the one who found Mikey's body? They are pretty similar looking and both were dressed in orange jackets on that particular night. Maybe I'm just gibbering here :rolleyes: :p





End of SPOILER!



Speak later,

L x

I'm just checking in quickly this morning and don't have much time, but I just want to say that once again you guys blow me away with your insights! Not to mention, provide me with a few much-appreciated laughs. Thanks, everyone! :)

Narya, your analysis in particular of that "skewering" scene was fabulous. And bits and pieces from everyone else, too. I knew I could count on you guys for alternate viewpoints of the why's and wherefore's of a scene like that! Much obliged.

But, oh, Shadow, the thought of injured Frodo, struggling along, trying to keep up, and Sam helping as much as he can... Man, I can see it in my head! If only PJ had... it would have been amazing. :cool:

(Incidentally, did anyone ever point out the Frodshadowing from Chain of Fools where he yells "NOOOOOOO!" as the guy falls? Hee hee!)

Luthiea, congrats on the new job! Hope it works out well for you and doesn't cut into your internet time too much! Oh, and your Ice Storm spoiler... pretty sure it's "A."

Well, I think with Narya's analysis of why the stabbing scene is so long we are officially back up to speed. :cool: Bring on Weathertop! Although actually I was still interested in the discussion on how the Council of Elrond was cut together, too. I'll have to go back and dig through the old thread at some point to try and resurrect that I suppose. But for now - could someone repost the pic of Frodo from the DVD, taken from the side while they're working on the stabbing shots? That'd help me get in the mood. ;)

Luthiea,
The blonde girl isn't in Flipper much - Flipper's much harder for those who don't like Paul Hogan, since he's in it most of the time. I think our sympathy's supposed to be with Sandy - his uncle is rather a git, but OTOH Sandy's got some growing to do, too.

tgshaw,
'tis true, the Three Muskateers are all Faculty members, too, although I doubt the Mods identified them as that, since Tata hadn't posted to the Faculty in a while.

Maeglian,
Ariel's thread it on the second page of the Pony, "Whatever happened to her, anyway" I think is the title.

Originally posted by Goldenberry
Welcome, Shadow! Once you take the first step and de-lurk long enough to make that first post, it then becomes easier and easier. Don't ever worry about having "nothing to say". That's never stopped me.

Second all that. Especially the, "never stopped me" part. :o

Prim - I mean, Cadmo :rolleyes: :)
Absolutely PJ should have hired you as a consultant. ;) Plus then you'd be in a good position to set up the Faculty Moot with the interview with EW and all... :D

I don't think the Fellowship could have gotten back to Gandalf in time, myself - they've made their way up the trail a fair ways, plus the bridge has been compromised - it's quite possible that if they ran out on it to save Gandalf, the whole thing would go down, or the shaking would knock Gandalf loose before they got to him. I really don't think there was any way they could save him.

Elve,
I always want to tell Galadriel, "Oh, yeah? What about Sam?" when she she does the "be alone" line. Mel's got a point about what PJ's trying to accomplish there, but it isn't among my favorites of PJ's adaptations.

originally posted by Silvan Elf
I dont think I have ever read anything quite like this before.

Yes, I think that's what did us in with the blue place. :p We're not easily categorized. Welcome, SE, I suppose we'll see you everywhere else even if we don't see you here. :D

originally posted by Shadow
That's one of my favorite passages in the book, when he and Sam struggle to keep up with the company and end up lagging way behind. Just imagine how great a job EW would have done with that. He suffers so beautifully, and I can just imagine him, staggering along, trying to convince himself he can do this. What a loss that we didn't get to see that.

Oh, how I want to see this! Welcome, Shadow, and please don't relurk!

I think the, "I'm not hurt" line was the only one that really grated the first time I saw the movie, and contines to irritate no matter how I try to work around it. I so wanted to see them patching Sam and Frodo up, and the two hobbits lagging behind as well. :p And the "I'm not hurt" is so unbelievale, argh! I think it's supposed to mean, "no puncture wound," but he would be seriously bruised and a bit dazed as well after a blow like that, possibly some broken ribs. They don't do the leather jerkin under the mithril, either, far as I can tell, so in the real world he'd have been cut, too. Humph. I suppose the initial shock might've made it easier while still in Moria, but the longer they'd gone the few endorphrins (or whatever the natural pain killers are called), and the worse it'd be.

Tolkien's telling of it was believable - Frodo and Sam could have kept moving in the caves due to adrenalin and whatnot, but as they got further away and the danger was less immediate they'd get to struggling.

originally posted by Shadow
can you wear out a CD by watching parts in slow motion again and again?

I'm hoping not. ;) I do a lot of frame-by-frame stuff myself.

Maeglian,
No more Disney version LOTR! :eek: Make it stop, make it stop! Purge the nightmare somewhere else, augh! :D Actually, you've convinced me the Rankin Bass version wasn't the worst possible, so that's a plus I guess...

We were watching a flick this morning, my son asked, "Are those real actors?" I said, "Yep," and he protested, "But I thought this was a Disney movie." Hard to explain why this made me laugh...

Although I still think Huck Finn is great stuff. :)

Sheryl

Well, colleagues, just dropping in to report on the first reviews of "Ash Wednesday," since it opens today (in some markets.) The consensus of opinion (as reported so far at Rottemtomatoes.com) seems to be that Ed Burns over-wrote, over-directed and over-acted in the movie. There are conflicting views of Elwood's performance: one reviewer said he was too "slight" for the film (whatever that means), one reviewer complained that he sulked his way through the film, some of these early reviewers hardly mention him, but focus on the over-blown script Burns wrote.

Will it get a broader release, so we can make up our own minds? Lordy, I hope so!

First, {{Prim & Viola}} Is Viola still there with you, Prim? Or has she gone back to London already?

Welcome Silvan and Shadow!

Silvan, you think we're insane? But you weren't here yet when we were doing the 20-screencap analysis of the Morgul blade being yanked out of Frodo's shoulder ... ;)

Shadow, glad you've finally joined us, and it's a pleasure meeting someone who's known Elijah since his Paradise days. So when did you know he'd make the right Frodo? :) And that's a good question: can a disc be worn out by repeated slow-mo and replays and freezeframes?

Welcome back to the Lounge, mel. :) Well, if we can get enough reviews and info about Ash Wednesday we might have some progress with postLoTR discussions!


Maeg, love your sig. :D LEK was here? :confused:

http://www.frodoandsam.net/images/movie/frodosam-011.jpg

Just felt like posting that. :)

Congrats on your new job, Luthiea!

Narya, that's the most wonderful in-depth analysis of the skewering scene ... this would have been perfect to counter Imladris folks when they were busy nitpicking that scene apart! Brilliant post. All I'll say here is that there is a comparable 'skewering' scene from another recent movie, if anyone's up for inter-movie-portrayal research: Red Dragon. A character is literally stabbed and um ... try not to think too much about what's the blade doing to him then ... and the character remains conscious during the attack. The camera stays on his face. When I saw that Red Dragon scene, I immediately flashed to Frodo's moment in Moria - even taking into account different acting styles, different directors, different overall tone and mood of the movies - I think it is possible to differentiate that the former involved a stabbing, while the latter was a case of getting the wind knocked and (squashed!) right out of him.

As for the "I'm not hurt" line ... first time I saw the movie and heard that, I was fully expecting a scene to come up where we find out that Frodo was hurt; he'd just said what he said so no one would worry, and then we'd get a scene where Frodo has to struggle along (like Shadow says, the boy suffers beautifully, and I knew that the very first time I saw him ;) ) . When that scene didn't materialise ... :( :mad: But Ariel, that spoiler of yours for the Extended Version sounds very, very promising. :)





TTT SPOILERS AND SPECULATION




Yup, "Sam confronts Frodo" was the bit that grabbed my attention too. Since we can't find anything that might fit from the book, could it possibly have anything to do with the very, very angry Frodo? New scenes, written just for TTT. Now, I still can't imagine Frodo being that mad with Sam - not before Cirith Ungol anyway - but could it be that Sam intervenes just before Frodo harms that someone who's about to be Stinged? That would count as a confrontation, wouldn't it? Okay, I don't expect Sam to stop Frodo from killing Gollum, if Gollum's the one Frodo's targetting ... well, just speculating. :p

I agree with Maeg about the Dead Marshes, and yeah, I think Elijah's talking about the Nazgul's flying steed. Matches with the info Sean happily revealed. Which was why I said Elijah's being real stingy about doling out spoilers. After all, Elijah telling everyone that the Dead Marshes contains dead soldiers isn't that big a shocker. :D





END SPOILERS/SPECULATION


Sheryl, Huck Finn is fantastic stuff. :) And no, I didn't forget the pic.

http://www.frodoandsam.net/images/elijah/elijah-flipper-002.jpg


{{{{Faculty}}}}

First, let me thank you all for the warm welcomes. I've been to other places where newcomers are barely acknowledged, which was another reason I was reluctant to jump in. You guys are great!

Shadow, glad you've finally joined us, and it's a pleasure meeting someone who's known Elijah since his Paradise days. So when did you know he'd make the right Frodo?

Ainon--To be honest with you, I didn't read the books until I realized EW was going to be in the movie. I saw a trailer on TV a few weeks before the movie came out, and was barely paying attention. It was the scene where the hobbits are cowering beneath the tree roots as the Black Rider is trying to sniff them out, and suddenly I saw those eyes glancing up between the roots and I knew immediately it was him. I mean, who else has eyes like that? I had read The Hobbit many times, and I had bought LOTR, but for some reason I never felt compelled to read it until that moment. :) Needless to say, I pulled it out and read all three books in about 5 days.

So had the advantage of being able to insert EW right into the role as I read the books--which made them very enjoyable--and I didn't have the problem of not having the movie-Frodo live up to my image of the book-Frodo. So to answer your question, EW has always been Frodo to me. It was kind of a shock to realize Frodo was 50 something in the book, but it didn't matter. I've heard people say that EW was born solely for the purpose of portraying Frodo, and after seeing how brilliant he is in this role, I can heartily concur.

Years ago, when I saw him in Huck Finn, I realized that he was something special, not just a cute little kid who got roles just because he was cute. He has a screen presence that does not allow one to take their eyes off of him--or at least that's what he does to me. :D

Did any of the US folks see The Faculty last night? I already own this movie and have seen it many many times, but there is something different about it being on television... it would be almost blasphemous to have it on another channel when EW is on! Does anyone else have this affliction?

Elvellon--Yep, I share your affliction. I stumbled across The Faculty last night, too, and though I've seen it too many times to count, I had no choice but to drop everything and sit and watch it again. As I said, I can't drag myself away whenever I see him on screen. Can't imagine what would happen if I chanced across him in person. It would probably be highly embarassing for both of us. :D

Reading the following made me *really* happy for EJW:
From Shadow
I didn't read the books until I realized EW was going to be in the movie. (snip) EW has always been Frodo to me. I wish EJW could read that! There's been so many people (including me) who didn't know much about *him*, and who went to see the film because they'd read and loved the *book*.
How nice for him that *his* presence specifically drew people to LotR! (Book and movie) :) :cool:


Luthiea, congratulations on your new job.

Interesting point about the end of the Ice Storm. I guess my take has been that Ben is crying partly because Mikey is dead and because of the awful experience of finding his dead body and having to carry him home to his parents, but equally he's crying because of relief and thankfulness that his own children are still alive, and so they yet have a chance to be a real family. It's not too late for them, like it is for the Carvers.


Peaceweaver, thanks for the info on the Ash Wednesday reviews. Rottentomatoes, here I come!


From Ainon
When I saw that Red Dragon scene, I immediately flashed to Frodo's moment in Moria. Hehe. I think we have reached a point where a lot of films and film scenes make us flash to EJW. I recently watched part of "A midsummernight's Dream" on TV (The one with Michelle Pfeiffer), and early on in the movie there's a long scene between Kevin Kline and Roger Rees (the professor in Bumblebee). I forgot to listen to what they were saying, as I was too busy wondering what they both thought about acting with Elijah, and if the two of them had ever talked about that on the Summernight set. Bet they didn't, there would be no reason to..... But still.....:rolleyes:


Ainon, yes, LEK was here, she was logged in and reading the Faculty Lounge as I was posting my previous post. Hope she'll look in on us now and then. :)


I have started quite a thought process about the "Why was Frodo alone at the mirror" topic. I have a theory. I just have to put all the pieces together first. I'll be back. :D

Originally posted by mel headstrong
And the entire Lothlorien sequence doesn't hold together as well as the rest of the movie does to me.



Couldnt agree more Mel, its a shame the way this whole scene was handled in the movie, it one of my favorite parts of book Fotr and to see it cut down to the tiny amounts of chicken feed we got in the movie was criminal:(

Originally posted by Shilohmm
Yes, I think that's what did us in with the blue place. We're not easily categorized. Welcome, SE, I suppose we'll see you everywhere else even if we don't see you here.



I woudnt worry about what happened over there too much, yes its a shame to have had to move, but here nothing like that will happen, its almost to laid back. We have problems staying on topic for more then two or three posts here:o;) And yes I do get around the board;)


Originally posted by Ainon
Silvan, you think we're insane? But you weren't here yet when we were doing the 20-screencap analysis of the Morgul blade being yanked out of Frodo's shoulder ...



Tis true I never visited this thread at all over at Imladris or CoE, I have missed much I suppose, but I like what I see now:)

Origonally posted by Shadow
First, let me thank you all for the warm welcomes. I've been to other places where newcomers are barely acknowledged, which was another reason I was reluctant to jump in. You guys are great!



Eventhough you seem to have picked a nice place to start posting Shawdow, please dont let it stop here. Your experience here is very representative of what KD is all about, check out more of it, I'm sure you'll like it:)

Narya that was a very thorough analysis of the skewering! I had the same experience: the place in the movie where the audience gasped most was the skewering, (Gandlf's fall and Boromirs last stand seemed alwas to be greeted with stunned silence).

I think the movies use of slow motion here, in Gandalf's fall and Boromirs execution is also a way to portray that strange almost disengaged feeling you get when you are very shocked by an event: time does seem to warp and slow down.

I agree with whoever said that Galdadriel is pushing Frodo into taking charge and a bit more responsibility. She has a "reprimand" quality to her voice there and EW/Frodo does end up looking a bit abashed IMO.

This vacillation is true even for book Frodo who broods and agonises a lot before he has the courage to leave his friends so tho PJ has compressed it, it still rings book true to me. I always assume she means that Frodo ultimately has to be the one responsible as the Ringbearer, whoever does or does not go with him it is his destiny to take the burden on himself. Especially since he's just offered it to her- so he is still up to that point hoping there is another way. Well, she squashes that hope all right. I think after Nuclear Galadriel we can confidently say that Frodo won't offer her the Ring again.:p

Ainon: yes Viola has headed back to London and probably weeks of job chaos.

Shadow-lucky you. I t took me a while to "fit" EW into my mental picture of Frodo. Actually for quite a while I had two Frodos wandering around my head but EW seems to have supplanted the original at last. ;)

Lutheia- congrats on the job! Well done- hope its fun and you have neat workmates.

Prim

Gosh, here I am butting in with more response to Ash Wednesday; sorry to interrupt the flow of conversation, but this review (in the LA Times--a real newspaper) is very different from the others I have seen:

October 11, 2002

Love and Redemption Cooked in Hell's Kitchen _
_
By KEVIN THOMAS, Times Staff Writer

For his fifth feature, Edward Burns takes a refreshing departure from romantic comedy to make one of his best, most mature films, "Ash Wednesday," a taut, melancholy tale of brotherly love and redemption set in the darkly atmospheric Irish American underworld of Manhattan's Hell's Kitchen. "Ash Wednesday" has understandably been compared to Martin Scorsese's "Mean Streets," but it's the fatalistic aura of Eugene O'Neill that hangs over it most strongly.

The film takes place between sunrise and sunset on Ash Wednesday 1983. Because its settings are exclusively old apartment buildings, worn taverns with lots of dark wood and an immense Victorian-era Catholic church, and because it concerns itself with the playing out of an ancient vendetta, "Ash Wednesday" could easily be set a century earlier.

Three years earlier to the day, young Sean Sullivan (Elijah Wood), tending bar, overhears three thugs in the Moran gang plotting to imminently rub out Sean's older brother Francis (Burns). Sean reaches into a drawer, pulls out a gun and opens fire. Shortly thereafter, only Sean's arm, identified by his wristwatch, turns up in the East River. In an instant, Francis straightens out his life and looks after Sean's widow (Rosario Dawson) and infant son.

For all its brooding quality, "Ash Wednesday" is suspenseful and ultimately unpredictable, with a sterling ensemble cast.

David Shire's evocative score and Russell Fine's moody camerawork blend seamlessly to create a drama that beautifully expresses Burns' abiding concerns of brotherhood, Catholicism and morality that is as embracing as it is seductively destructive.

PW, thanks for the review! That makes me want to see Ash Wednesday all the more. And Sean is not only married, he also has an infant son!? This certainly seems to be new acting territory for EJW. :)

Well, I was going to write a little on why I think the mirror scene works without Sam. I ended up writing a whole lot more. :rolleyes: (How unlike me!! :D ). Anyway, those who manage to muddle through all the below, will find the mirror scene somewhere in the middle. I'm hoping for comments; - feel free to pick my theory apart! Especially concerning Sam's perceived importance in FotR, there's probably a lot I'm missing here.......)


The ME powers on the side of good (ie. Gandalf, Galadriel) *know* that something else than the will of evil meant for Frodo to have the ring. They also know that he is pivotal to achieving the impossible in defeating Sauron; - that if *he* does not find a way, no one will. That is the premise for their decisions and their actions in the film.

Frodo is courageous and bright, but he's also young, vulnerable, innocent and very dependent on others to help him and to tell him what to do. His confused worry when Gandalf isn't there at the Prancing Pony is very telling, for instance. I think it includes a fair share of worry because he won't know what to do next if Gandalf does not show up to take charge. The powers want to help and support Frodo, out of love, because his youth and innocence makes him dependent on help and guidance, and because of his importance to the fate of ME. But they also see it as their obligation to Middle Earth to make Frodo himself realize, accept and *act* on his own importance and his duty. They cannot allow themselves to be too kind, too loving or lenient, nor too understanding of Frodo's fear and reluctance. They must ultimately be prepared to sacrifice him for the grater good, to even help contribute to his willingness to sacrifice himself. Gandalf's pained and sad look as Frodo offers to take the ring to Mordor illustrates this perfectly. He loves Frodo and is full of grief at the knowledge of what going to Mordor likely will mean, but yet he doesn't stop him because he knows this *has* to be. He loves Frodo, however, and so does his utmost to help and support him along the way.

Yet at Charadras when they are placed in a situation where all possible roads are likely to lead to the Fellowship's destruction, Gandalf is forced to trust in his own knowledge that if Frodo does not find a way, noone will. By asking Frodo to make the decision without giving him guidance or advise, Gandalf trusts in the fate that meant for Frodo to have the ring. When there seems to be no possible way out, the road that the ringbearer choses "blindly" will be the right one after all. But at the same time, Gandalf's action here serves to impress on Frodo that as ringbearer, ultimately the responsibility for the quest and the way ahead rest on *his* shoulders. Others may be stronger, wiser and braver, but they still are there to protect him and help him, *not* to tell the ringbearer what to do. In those dire circumstances, that's quite a harsh nudge towards independence, especially coming from someone who loves Frodo as much as Gandalf does.

Galadriel on the other hand doesn't know or love Frodo, so at the mirror she is more direct and "unkind" in pushing Frodo towards an independent acceptance that he bears the responsibility for ME..... alone. Both her words to him and the scenes he sees in the mirror impress this on him. They make him "know what he has to do"and brings him closer to the decision he finally makes on the river shore; - to go on alone. I think the mirror scene works very well when seen this way. There also seems to be a point to Sam's absence:

Neither Gandalf nor Galadriel fully seem to realize Sam's importance. They seem to place their focus almost exclusively on Frodo. Gandalf makes Sam go on the journey from Bag End almost on a whim, in order to give Frodo a companion who cares for him. And Galadriel does not invite Sam to the mirror or show him any particular attention after that glance when she says "Yet hope remains....". (That may change with the gift-giving in the SE DVD, though).

Both Gandalf and Galadriel are ring bearers themselves, and perhaps therefore strongly feel and believe that "To bear a ring of power is to be alone". That's what they themselves are experiencing; - the burden and responsibility cannot be shared with someone else and can hardly be understood by others. (Come to think of it, this would also help explain why Celeborn seems to be such a bore in the film; it underlines that Galadriel is "alone" in this sense....... Nah, I guess that is taking the theory too far. :rolleyes: )

Anyway, during many scenes in FotR the mighty of ME and Frodo himself seem to believe that in the end the burden is Frodo's; - alone. And they are wrong!

That's what the *next* films hopefully will set out to show us, that despite the fates and the powers having singled out Frodo as bearer of the One, despite their belief that he has to change the course of the future alone, he *couldn't* succeed in his task on his own, he depended on Sam's love and compassion. Only their joint efforts and sacrifices, their love and devotion to one another made achieving the quest possible. That was something even the wise and powerful did not fully know or foresee. In a way that just makes the message even more powerful. And it ties completely in to Elve's statement that the hero in LotR is not Frodo *or* Sam, but rather their love and devotion. If that is the message TTT and RotK manage to bring across, I shall *not* be complaining. :)

Hello all. Things are certainly moving quickly around here. I pop off for a couple of days and it takes me an age to catch up! Glad to see you've all settled into the in-depth discussions we enjoy so much.

Hello again Mel.

Shadow - welcome. I am fairly new to The Faculty Lounge, too. I de-lurked over at CofE and received such a warm reception I just kept coming back. They are a lovely bunch here.

Sylvan Elf, so you think we're all mad eh? You must be a good judge of character!

Tg. Sorry to hear about your accident. What a horrible thing to happen. Hope you're recovering from the shock.

Ainon (good you got your old name back) Yes - I'm still struggling with the screencaps. I have some ready, but no luck getting them here yet - (don't you have to save them on a special site or something?) You all must think I'm useless - Well, I AM!

Narya, you mentioned Gandalf's reaction after Gordon scewers Frodo. I also like the way the film portrays the wizard's fondness for Frodo. Another example of this takes place during the council scene at Rivendell - Gandalf's expression as Frodo steps forward to volunteer to take the ring to Mordor. He has his back to Frodo at this point, and by the look on his face it's as if he KNEW Frodo would do this, as if he KNEW this unassuming hobbit of the Shire was DESTINED to take on this terrible burden. I think he is proud of Frodo, but at the same time very afraid for him. He looks sad as he closes his eyes for a second before turning to face Frodo and offer him support.
Elve also mentioned the scene on the banks of the Anduin, when Frodo is standing alone, weeping, trying to summon up the courage to leave. I've often wondered about this. As Frodo recalls the words Gandalf spoke in Moria, is he simply remembering, or is he actually 'hearing' Gandalf, as he says, '...all you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you.' As we hear Gandalf's voice, Frodo's expression alters: his eyes widen; his eyebrows lift a little; his mouth moves slightly, and (as Tg has pointed out before) even his nostrils react! I get the impression that Frodo hears Gandalf 'speak' to him, even though he believes him to be dead - it's as if Gandalf is still 'guiding' him in some way - and this gives Frodo the courage to go on alone. His face takes on a more determined look as he thrusts the ring into his pocket, walks resolutely to the boat and jumps in. Elijah's performance here fits perfectly into the micro-expression category. Nobody does it better!

This seems like a nice place to settle down.:)

Bye for now.;)

Please forgive the double-post, but Maeglian, your post got in just before mine. I can't quote all of your words, because they were all so insightful and articlate. Oh, I love the way you 'see' the characters, understand their individual choices and emotions. It was a pleasure to read.

Yes, Gandalf's expression as Frodo put himself forward was 'pained'. Why didn't I think of that! And yes, Frodo did have to be 'pushed' into accepting the responsibility of the ring, even though he really had little choice, for the ring compelled him to speak up at the council meeting - the ring chose Frodo!

It is a shame that Sam was absent from the Mirror of Galadriel scene - it looked like the scouring of the Shire that Frodo saw, though this was Sam's vision in the book - and according to rumours the scouring has been dropped.

Perhaps more will be explained in the extended DVD. Not long to wait now. I'm really looking forward to the added scenes, and the 2 new behind-the-scenes discs should be good. I can't wait to see more of those 'now you see Frodo, now you see Elijah' shots. :D

Bye again.

Hi Maeglian--Excellent analysis of the mirror scene, as well as the importance of forcing Frodo to see his place in this quest. Yes, he accepts the task of taking the ring to Mordor at the Council, but he really has no idea of what he has undertaken at that point, and as long as he has the fellowship around him he is content to simply follow where they lead. At that point, I'm sure he never dreams he and Sam will end up going it alone, without all of these brave warriors around them to protect them and make all the decisions. Gandalf leaving the choice of paths to him on Charadras is his first inkling that he is to play a more active role in that regard.

**Spoilers for EV**







I read that there is a scene in the extended version when the company is setting out from Rivendell where Frodo is in the lead, and doesn't have a clue which way to go to even begin the journey. Gandalf gently "suggests" the right direction to him. Again, this would lull Frodo into believing that even though he's the Ring-bearer, he's not really going to have to lead the company. That makes that moment on Charadras all the more significant, and I'm sure you're right, Maeglian--that is exactly Gandalf's intent there.






**End of spoiler

I also find it significant that no one in the company objects to Frodo being given the choice at that point. That, too, has to begin to impress on Frodo that he will be expected to do more than just bear the ring (which is enough!).

I'm sure you're right about the mirror scene, as well, though I have to admit that on first viewing I really missed Sam in that scene. What bothered me most about that, however, is that Galandrial seems so cold and unfeeling toward Frodo at that point. Here was this little hobbit, carrying the weight of ME on his small shoulders and admitting that he was afraid--I wanted her to show him some comfort at that point, even while impressing on him that he alone had to complete the quest. He had just lost his mentor and father figure, he was overwhelmed with grief and fear, and she seemed to simply add to it. I found the book-Galandrial to be a much more benevolent character. I hope this is rectified a little in the extended version.

Did anyone notice how depressed Frodo looked during the entire sequence on the river after they leave Lothlorien? He truly did inhabit that character--you could just feel the weight he carried by looking at his face through that entire part of the journey. Incredible.

Hi there. I just wanted to comment on Gandalf's emotions when Frodo says he will take the ring to Mordor at CoE. I remembered that someone asked Ian McKellan that very question on his website, and I remembered that his answer included "relief", but couldn't find the exact quote. Until now. :)

Q: During the council at Rivendell, when Frodo announces that he will take the ring: I feel that the closeup on Gandalf radiates a very complex emotion: Pity, doubt and an overwhelming fear and sorrow. To me, Gandalf was hoping that the hobbits should be spared. At the same time I suspect that he knew, deep inside, that there could be only one way. Now, almost all of my friends have another interpretation of this scene. They all think that Gandalf looks quite relieved and happy when turning to Frodo. Quite fascinating, and one of the things that I love the most with film and theater: That we all experience things in our own way - that we all fall under individual spells - but at the same time we all get enchanted. So this is my question: What do you think Gandalf really thought and felt about it?

A: Gandalf has told Elrond that Frodo cannot be expected to do more than bring the ring to Rivendell but when Frodo, without coercion, decides to proceed further, I expect what you see on Gandalf's face is relief and admiration, Hobbits never ceasing to amaze him. It is one of the stylistic features of the film that the camera gets very close for these crucial moments, allowing the story to be told through a glint in the eye or twist of the mouth. For instance, did you notice Gandalf's sly glance to Elrond, when Aragorn pledges to protect Frodo, confounding Elrond's view of men's dependability?

When I read that I was kind of surprised because I thought Gandalf's expression was sorrow and regret that poor Frodo had to be the one to take the ring. Then I went back and read the book, which helped a little. In the book, Elrond is the one who tells Frodo,
I think that this task is appointed for you, Frodo; and that if you do not find a way, no one will. . .But it is a heavy burden. So heavy that none could lay it on another. I do not lay it on you. But if you take it freely, I will say that your choice is right; and though all the mighty elf-friends of old, Hador, and Hurin, and Turin, and Beren himself were assembled together, your seat should be among them.
I wish PJ had figured out a way to put this speech in. It shows the non-book reader that Elrond is giving Frodo well-deserved props. Frodo is not just some little guy who falls down a lot. He is Middle Earth's last hope. The fact that Frodo makes the choice is important. Elrond and Gandalf knew that Frodo had to volunteer. Maybe the "powers that be" made it a stipulation. :D At any rate, Gandalf is relieved because if Frodo, the chosen one, had not volunteered, they couldn't coerce him *cough*choice needs to be free will *cough*, so they would have been in big trouble. Then again, whoever "meant" Frodo to have the Ring must have figured Frodo "meant" to volunteer. :D And they also told Boromir that Frodo was going to "stand forth", didn't they? Don't you just love all of Tolkien's carefully planted little "foreshadowings"?

Hey, I just quoted "THE BOOK" and no one told me I was being off-topic. Hurrah and all!

Well, I am most surprised by Sir Ian's interpretation of that scene, because it isn't what I saw, either. I would have said that a look of pain or sorrow crossed his face when he realized that Frodo was volunteering. If I think about it, I can almost make myself believe that there was relief of some kind there afterward, but I was so sure of that initial moment of regret. Perhaps that is just me projecting my own feelings onto Gandalf.

Anyone else have a different perspective?

My own personal moment of "duh!" regarding the mirror scene: I never got why Frodo's view in the mirror showed his companions turning away from him. It wasn't until I read some of your views about Frodo coming to realize that he truly was alone in bearing this burden that I realized it was another way of illustrating this fact to him. D'oh!

Originally posted by Louise
<snip>I remembered that someone asked Ian McKellan that very question on his website, and I remembered that his answer included "relief", but couldn't find the exact quote. Until now. :)<snip>


Thank you for finding that, Louise. I remember reading that too and being very surprised that IM never mentions that he feels pain and sorrow at hearing Frodo's declaration too. I mean, it is obvious! I wonder if perhaps IM had forgotten what he put into that scene since it had occured so long before the interview ;).

Excellent analyses Maeglin, Blossom and Shadow. What you stated was similar to my read of the situation Re: Galadriel's forcing Frodo to take on the responsibility for carrying the ring alone. I don't think Galadriel and Gandalf 'forgot' Sam though. I think they knew that Frodo was the driving force of the two of them and so it was he they had to convince to go on. Sam would follow - they knew this - and would be the strength that Frodo needed, but the drive and decision to go all the way to Mordor HAD to come from Frodo alone. I think they trusted Sam a lot more than you give them credit for, Maeglin. I think they knew quite well his importance to the quest, but they also realized that he was all ready set to do what he needed to do - follow Frodo - and that he needed nothing from them but to be let to do his job. But that Frodo was not quite ready yet. He still needed to realize that the burden was completely HIS and HIS alone and despite his age and humility, he HAD to have the drive and determination take this burden on and complete his task alone. I think they actually gave Sam quite a bit of credit in knowing that Frodo might be able to give the rest of the company the slip, but he would NEVER be able to get away from Sam. I think they trusted that.

Oh, well - this stuff is probably obvious. I STILL wanted to see Sam at the mirror if only to see this image..."...and now he thought he saw Frodo with a pale face lying fast asleep under a great dark cliff." Yeah, I know, but I am the angst maven!

Ariel

About Sam -- I think Gandalf, at least, was more aware of how important Sam was than you give him credit for. We don't actually see this happening, but at some point Gandalf took Sam aside and said "Don't you lose him!" or "Don't you leave him!" And movie Sam took those words to heart, so that letting Frodo go without him would have meant breaking a promise.

That's one change that I think was convincing -- it would be hard to convince 21st century movie-goers that a servant would have the kind of love and loyalty Sam has for Frodo. But friendship plus a promise made to Gandalf -- especially after Sam thinks Gandalf is dead -- becomes a powerful motivator.

From Ariel:
I STILL wanted to see Sam at the mirror if only to see this image..."...and now he thought he saw Frodo with a pale face lying fast asleep under a great dark cliff." Yeah, I know, but I am the angst maven!
After nearly convincing the audience that Frodo was dead twice, that might have been overkill. I hope they don't add an "is he dead?" scene to TTT (unless they actually make it to the end of the book) -- I would like the movie audience to be as convinced as I was reading the book that Frodo was really dead this time.

Mel

hobbit lover did it! She went and watched 'Ash Wednesday' and here’s her review:

http://www.deadjournal.com/users/jaded21049

Now, she’s not here with us at KD, so please reply to her directly at the deadjournal, or e-mail her. Hurry up, go read! :)

Thanks for the ‘professional’ reviews, peaceweaver. Although … is that it? Those are the only reviews we’ll get? :(


Maeg -- wow. Thanks for the incredible analyses, everyone. And Bunnie, I had a similar “D’oh” revelation moment too, re: the significance of mirrorFellowship turning away from Frodo. :p A confession that’ll earn me a trouting for sure – first time I watched the movie I’d forgotten Sam was supposed to be there. :o In my defense I’ll say that I hadn’t reread the books before the movie, and I tend to skip ‘Fellowship’ chapters anyway … :rolleyes: :P And yet oddly enough, I knew I was expecting to see a mirror vision of Frodo lying ‘dead’. Typical of me, huh. :p


http://www.imagemagician.com/images/ainon/LoTR/moriaskew.jpg

The original screencap was from Penny’s classicxf (http://www.classicxf.com/images/FOTR) site.

I went through my store of pics and I came across this screencap. While it doesn’t contribute anything to current conversation, it’s probably the only ‘pained’ expression we get from Frodo after the skewering. I will confess to spending a heckuva lot of time staring at Frodo’s shirt during the mirror scene, trying to see if there was any sign of a mended tear.


Louise – thanks for the Ian McKellen quote. Yep, I think a lot of fans reacted in shock to his answer. Or maybe it’s like what Bunnie says, we’re projecting our feelings onto Gandalf. Was it Maeg who asked for Gandalf screencaps on the previous page? I’ll go mosey around Penny’s site and see what I can find.

Blossom, what you need to do is go to www.imagemagician.com . Register there and get 3 MB worth of space to store your screencaps. PM me if you need more details. ;)

Shadow, now that is cool. So it was EW who truly brought you to Middle Earth, before the movie. :) I never had a clear Frodo image in my mind, so I was happy with EW the moment I saw him. You're right, when he’s on screen, it’s near impossible to take your eyes off him … goodness knows how much more of FoTR I could discover if only I could just look at something/someone other than him! Btw, wait till you meet tgshaw. She knew EW was meant for great things from the moment she saw him in ‘Huck Finn’. ;)

This Weathertop pic is from the Cinefex magazine article that came out early this year. Nothing we haven’t seen before, but I think this is a clearer view of Frodo – looks like the ‘windy’ wraithworld effects hadn’t been added in yet:

http://www.imagemagician.com/images/ainon/LoTR/cinefex.jpg


Edit/Adding: just came back on-line to post, and Ariel and mel have posted. Gee, why is it no surprise that both Ariel and I would mention the "...and now he thought he saw Frodo with a pale face lying fast asleep under a great dark cliff." bit? :p



*************SPOILERS TTT & ROTK***************

One reason I am happy that Shelob has been pushed to RoTK is that we won't get the Frodo-is-dead cliffhanger at the end of TTT. We got the Gandalf-is-dead-but-look-he's-still-starring-in-the-other-two-movies routine already; no way the audience would fall for 'Frodo's dead!' in the second movie. Especially since anyone could easily look up the RoTK cast list and see that Elijah Wood is still listed as part of the cast! But if Frodo were to 'die' at the beginning of RoTK, *that* would be something the audience won't expect. I can just imagine the absolute horror non-readers would feel at that moment. I bet there wouldn't even be a chance for the cynical ones to second-guess that he isn't really dead.

Originally posted by ainon

*************SPOILERS TTT & ROTK***************

One reason I am happy that Shelob has been pushed to RoTK is that we won't get the Frodo-is-dead cliffhanger at the end of TTT. We got the Gandalf-is-dead-but-look-he's-still-starring-in-the-other-two-movies routine already; no way the audience would fall for 'Frodo's dead!' in the second movie. Especially since anyone could easily look up the RoTK cast list and see that Elijah Wood is still listed as part of the cast! But if Frodo were to 'die' at the beginning of RoTK, *that* would be something the audience won't expect. I can just imagine the absolute horror non-readers would feel at that moment. I bet there wouldn't even be a chance for the cynical ones to second-guess that he isn't really dead.

Excellent point. It doesn't come across that way in the book, but in the space of a single movie, it might. And, yes, OF COURSE we would both be yearning for that scene!

:p

Ariel

Originally posted by Shadow
Did anyone notice how depressed Frodo looked during the entire sequence on the river after they leave Lothlorien? He truly did inhabit that character--you could just feel the weight he carried by looking at his face through that entire part of the journey. Incredible.

Yes, Shadow. Throughout the boat journey on the Anduin, Frodo knew what he had to do - you could see it in his face - he was 'working himself up' to leaving the fellowship, his friends, to continue the quest alone. Imagine what that must feel like! Again, Elijah's understanding of the turmoil his character was experiencing shone through in every look, every expression. Frodo is also aware of Boromir here, and the threat he poses. As the company alight the boats on the river-bank, Boromir remains seated in his boat for a moment, and Frodo, already out of his boat and moving away, glances back towards him. It is only a movement of the eyes - Frodo has his back to Boromir - but the suspicion, fear and mistrust he feels are evident in that look.
You are fitting in here perfectly, Shadow. Don't you wish you had de-lurked sooner?

Louise. I was also surprised at IM's quote regarding Gandalf's feelings as Frodo volunteers at the council. To me it appeared to imply pride in Frodo at putting himself forward and anguish for the danger and despair it will inflict upon him.

Ainon. You're an angel. Thanks so much for that information on the screencaps site. I will be going there as soon as I can. I'm a little short on time at the moment, as I am nursing our sick Jack Russell Terrier. She has doggie tonsilitis, and is feeling very sorry for herself after her visit to the vet this morning! :( Hopefully she will be feeling much better in the next couple of days, and will be back to her usual mischievous self. Then I'll get cracking on those screencaps. Watch this space! :D :D :D

Until then, bye.

Hi everyone!

Thanks for all your congrats about my new job :)

ainon - cheers for posting that link to Hobbit Lover's review.


Don't know if anyone's posted this picture yet, I found it at Ringbearer and very nice it is too, here's the link -

http://always.ejwsites.net/images/marcystarwars.jpg

I wish I was that little boy :p


Ohh, I remember when I first read TTT, I got to the bit when Frodo was 'dead' and I was like Nooooooooooo! Luckily I'd bought ROTK a few days previously so a quick check confirmed it wasn't so! ;)

Up until I got the FOTR video, during the Weathertop scenes where you can see the Ringwraiths when Frodo puts the Ring on, I thought that the sequences of closeups showing Frodo's hand where you can see the Ring, was the Ringwraith's hand and the Ring was someone materialising on the WiKi's finger! :eek:

Better go now, someone else is wanting to use this computer! I've not had a chance to read everyone's posts properly, will do it later.

L :)

Well, I know things are back to normal when I have to take notes to reply here (and two more posts just while I was over at hobbit lover's site reading her Ash Wednesday review--thanks, ainon for the link to that; IMHO she did a very good job)! Since I may not have time for everything now and might have to come back later to finish posting, I'll throw in first the one thing I had to copy and paste so I don't lose it. These Ash Wednesday reviews aren't new--they're from right after the showing at Tribeca--so a lot of folks here have probably already read them. But for anyone who hasn't, here's the link to a page on my website with one professional review and two viewers' comments on AW. The professional review is from Variety, so is relatively important (and not terribly positive):

http://www.members.tripod.com/afewwords_tgs/id112.htm

My site is really outdated right now--I haven't adding a thing since early to mid September. Seem to have been busy with other things :confused: . The EW movie info takes more upkeep than the rest of the site, and I don't have anything on Try 17 yet--will have to get cracking!

Thanks to BB for finding the Emily Dickenson quote.

And congrats to Luthiea on the new job (geesh, I need another translation here :o -- does "a week Monday" mean you're starting on October 14, or October 21?). Well, good luck whenever you begin. And thanks for the link to that pic. Even EW's geeky pictures are getting more adult looking! Is there such a thing as a geek-man?

The rest of my notes are on different LotR scenes that have been brought up in the last page or so, and I'm thinking this might be a good place to stop and come back to later (have to make it to the bank before it closes at noon). Just one point on the TTT cliffhanger ending--

TTT/RotK book spoilers, just in case




In The Book, we do know Frodo's alive at the very end of TTT. We leave Sam at the door of the tower after the orcs have carried Frodo inside, and before that one orc has said Frodo's still alive. Ooohhh... I just looked up the ending in The Book. Wanna hear the last paragraph (great Sam-angst here, for anyone who's into that):
The great doors slammed to. Boom. The bars of iron fell into place inside. Clang. The gate was shut. Sam hurled himself against the bolted brazen plates and fell senseless to the ground. He was out in the darkness. Frodo was alive but taken by the Enemy.
Then, of course, comes the first half of RotK which tells the poor reader nothing of what's happening with F&S :eek: . Y'know, after countless readings and 33 years, this is the first time I've actually caught the fact that "Enemy" (the very last word in TTT) is capitalized--which would imply that it's specifically referring to Sauron. Gives a whole different slant to "taken by the Enemy." Chills...

Hi, all!

Well, I broke down and read the interviews ainon linked to - the line that stood out for me was EW's response to "Why are Frodo and Sam such good friends?" He said, "They work well together. Frodo has wisdom and knowledge; Sam has courage." Obviously, they both have all those qualities - I just like that EW recognizes Sam's courage. Someone's sig here says something about how deeply trusting a person is an act of courage - Sam's trust in Frodo has always struck me as very couragous, and extremely supportive, too. Sam's faith in Frodo helped Frodo as much as the food Sam prepared. :)



Originally posted by Ariel
Thank you for finding that, Louise. I remember reading that too and being very surprised that IM never mentions that he feels pain and sorrow at hearing Frodo's declaration too. I mean, it is obvious! I wonder if perhaps IM had forgotten what he put into that scene since it had occured so long before the interview ;).


That was the conclusion we reached on some thread at Imladris - that McKellan really didn't remember the scene in question. A second reason that shot so resonates is that it so clearly echoes the shot in Bag End, after they've heated the ring. Gandalf asks, "What do you see?" and turns away, Frodo says, "Nothing," and Gandalf looks relieved, then Frodo tells Gandalf he's seeing the words. In both scenes, the camera is on McKellan while EW is behind him, a fairly tight shot so we see Gandalf's reaction to what Frodo is saying.

I think in both cases there's a parallel of pain, dismay, and then resolve/acceptance. After reading Louise's post and book quote I will have to go back to see if I think it is supposed to be relief and admiration toward the end of that shot - but I still suspect McKellan just isn't remembering it right. The actors don't study the movie like we do, and I'm sure it can be tough to remember one shot in the midst of a year and a half shoot!

Still, Louise's analysis makes me wonder...

mel, I'm really enjoying some of the points you made about the "why" of the changes, book to movie.

Originally posted by Luthiea

I wish I was that little boy

You should go post that on Hobmom's thread, because a lot of people there would wish the same thing. ;) Congrats on your job, btw. Let us know if you end up liking it. :D

What a killer last paragraph for TTT! I'd noticed before, I think, that Frodo had been taken by the Enemy (capital E), always thought that a nice twist of the knife.

Gee, I thought I had more to say, but I guess it's all been said!

Sheryl

Another reason Sir Ian Mc's statement doesn't ring completely true to me is the earlier scene between Gandalf and Elrond. Elrond seems to have pretty much decided that Frodo's da man--er, da hobbit--and Gandalf is still trying to keep Frodo out of any further hardship: "We can ask no more of Frodo." I wonder if an actor, like a writer, can sometimes put nuances into his work that he doesn't even realize at the time.

On some other scenes that have been discussed:

I don't think the Fellowship could have saved Gandalf. Being ignorant about such things, I hate to come out and say that the camera-work could have been done better, but... yeah, I think it could have been. We get one shot of Gandalf on the bridge from the vantage point of where the Fellowship is actually standing, and can tell he's pretty far away from them. But after that one shot, everything moves in to a closer POV (even those shots that aren't specifically close-ups), and IMHO that's confusing. The audience is identifying itself with the Fellowship at that point, so the tendency is to think our vantage point is the same as the Fellowship's when it isn't. It took me a few viewings to figure this out, and I still think it would have been a good idea to show more of the scene from the Fellowship's actual POV--which could also have emphasized their feelings of helplessness.

I'm sure the reason for Frodo's miraculous recovery after being "skewered" is to save screen time--also the reason the mithril shirt is discovered when it is rather than later--although it would seem to be more realistic that he have some injuries. Book-Frodo also says he's all right when Aragorn first picks him up--but either he doesn't realize yet that he is hurt, or he's belittling it for the sake of not holding up the Fellowship. Actually, at the risk of being heretical, it seems to me there's a bit of a slip in The Book at this point, anyway: Aragorn picks up Frodo; Frodo asserts that he's all right and can walk; Aragorn exclaims in surprise that he thought Frodo was dead. Now, if Frodo really had been run through, as Aragorn thinks, wouldn't there be, well, a bit of blood involved? I'd think a Ranger, even a very frazzled one, would notice the lack.

There's a pic I saw just one time on-line and wish I would have saved, of the skewering shot from the side. My guess as to why it wasn't used is that it's obvious from that angle that the spear isn't going into Frodo, so it wouldn't trick any Tolkien virgins into thinking Frodo's really being killed. But the look of pain on EW's face is incredibly realistic--much more so, IMHO, than what ended up in the movie. Don't suppose there's any chance someone has that pic lying around anywhere?

But, getting back to the injury issue, stopping to tend to Frodo and Sam in the movie wouldn't work well with Aragorn's rush to get to Lothlorien--if anything, the two Men probably would have carried them until they got to safety. (I suppose they could have been tended to after they reached Lorien, but it would be a bit out of the flow of the story by then.) And IMHO, that rush to Lorien is pretty important in that it was Aragorn's taking up leadership of the group after Gandalf's fall. If Boromir's "Let them have a moment" had won out over Aragorn's "We must reach the forest of Lothlorien," it would have been much harder for Aragorn to be accepted as the leader. In a thread some time ago when there was still an Imladris, I remember remarking that I see this as purposeful on Aragorn's part; that is, he realizes his instructions have to be followed at that important juncture (the first time anyone gives "orders" after Gandalf is lost), or Boromir, at least, will never follow him. And Aragorn is shaken enough by Gandalf's death (Boromir has to call to him to get him to move afterward) that it seems giving orders would be something he'd have to almost force himself to do right then. (That's all JMHO.)

Edit: I just remembered something one of the scriptwriters said (I don't remember which one) that could also come into play here. She said that just because something isn't shown in the movie doesn't mean it didn't happen. IIRC, she used Tom Bombadil as an example, saying that just because the movie doesn't show the hobbits' encounter with him, doesn't mean it didn't occur in that "universe." I suppose you could say this about the stop to tend to Frodo's and Sam's injuries--it might have happened and just wasn't shown on screen. End Edit.

I agree that when Galadriel tells Frodo that being a ring-bearer means being alone, she's not discounting him getting help from Sam. I don't think she means "alone" in that sense, but that he has to understand that "finding a way" is up to him and no one else. Kind of the idea that "It's lonely at the top." Until Amon Hen, the only time movie-Frodo is a leader is when he's only with the other hobbits. As soon as Aragorn or Gandalf appears, he pretty much lets them take over. This is quite a bit different from book-Frodo, but I think it's Frodo's character arc (?) during the first movie. It takes all of LotR-FotR for him to get to the point where he can strike off on his own, and Galadriel's "tough love" is the turning point. In The Book, OTOH, Frodo's pretty independent from the start (can you imagine movie-Frodo "talking back" to Gandalf the way book-Frodo does throughout "The Shadow of the Past" :eek: ?)

The telling "shifted line" IMHO is, "I know what I must do, but I'm afraid to do it." In The Book, Frodo says this during the confrontation with Boromir--it's what he sees happening to Boromir that makes him realize he has to leave the group, and he does so almost immediately. OTOH, movie-Frodo has to come to the decision with Galadriel's help, and then has to wait some time before he actually has the chance to leave.

Ok any one and every one is allowed to call me a hypocrite, hobbit lover here, I said to some that I most likely won't be seen here for some time, at least a month or two, but there are some good reasons why I finally came:

It struck me to-day I think how much you guys like to talk and how long this thread can get, and so I freaked thinking when I did finally come I could never catch up. (I think it's taken me well more then an hour just to read all of these here now)

I missed you guys!

You know it's not just the Elijah/Frodo related threads that are slow at C-o-E, a lot of the others just aren't getting as many replies as they used to, and so I have berely any one left there to talk to.

I found it so aggravating and what not that I knew the discussion about Ash Wednesday was just starting up over here and I wasn't present to hear what y'all had to say and all.


((((Ainon)))) (or 'non' I suppose) thanks to her for giving me the links and posting my deadjoural here.

Now, on that topic, like I've said before any questions or comment any one has about the movie/review your welcome to ask. :) This might sound weird, but I like that I'm some what the envy of the town (or Lounge) now that I've seen it before so many others but I feel also kinda alone in that being the only who's seen it, I can't talk profoundly about any which scene with people not knowing what the hell I'm talking about. Oh Well.

posted by Tgshaw: IMHO she did a very good job)!
Why thank ya!

Well I should be on my way now. –Alexan

Yay!! Yay!! {{{Alexan}}} Saw the name of the last poster and thought we had someone new--but this is even better!! :cool:

I really do think you wrote a good review--wasn't just "Oh, I loved everything," or "Yuck, I hated everything," but really balanced and made me feel I knew a bit more about the movie. I hope, too, that pretty soon you won't be the only one here who's seen it. :(

Why I love you too Tg...and every one else. :)

And thank you again.

Welcome Shadow...glad you are no longer in the Shadows.

I was going to pop on a post a quick response to something I read yesterday, but it took me an hour to catch up on everything that has been posted since the last time I was here, and now I don't have time.:rolleyes:

I guess I will try to find some time to get out here tomorrow and post something.

You know, I remember when weekends used to be slow...now I can't even keep up then. I LOVE IT.

Hi! Just stopped by to say glad to see you here at KD, and to drop off a little present I hope you'll enjoy.

http://www.visimag.com/movieidols/m30_display.htm

Hobbit Hugs,
Hewene

Hewene--Wonderful present! Thanks. Looks like a good textbook for next term, eh? ;)

And among other things, it gives us another little Elijah with hobbit ears:

http://www.imagemagician.com/images/tgshaw/m30_home.jpg

Oh my, so much time online today and I still have so far to go to get my avatar. Oh, well. I've been running to and fro among 3 different boards for so long I'm not sure I can pry my fingers off of the mouse... but I'd better try. Good night all.

Alexan, how great to see you here. Wonderful that you managed to go see Ash Wednesday, and thank you for the review!

I have one question which also contains a spoiler:
*
*
*
You say that EJW's character Sean kills somebody on screen.(That would be in the bar when he overhears some guys talking, right?) I am curious about, - how did he *look* in that scene? Calm and detached, or very angry and frantic like in that glimpse we get of Frodo fighting someone in the TTT trailer?
*
*
*
*
Back to another topic:


From tg
When Galadriel tells Frodo that being a ring-bearer means being alone, she's not discounting him getting help from Sam. I don't think she means "alone" in that sense, but that he has to understand that "finding a way" is up to him and no one else. Kind of the idea that "It's lonely at the top."
Yes, that was the point I was trying to make too. She doesn't discount him getting help (from Sam, or others), but she doesn't seem to place any great *weigth* on it not realize that it will be *crucial* to getting the quest accomplished. Also, there is the sentence about "one by one,...." that is an indication she is telling him he should actually do it alone also in the sense that noone else should even be with him; - because the ring will destroy them.

Blossom, I hope your dog is getting better! (This from a fellow dog owner.)

Originally posted by tgshaw

There's a pic I saw just one time on-line and wish I would have saved, of the skewering shot from the side. My guess as to why it wasn't used is that it's obvious from that angle that the spear isn't going into Frodo, so it wouldn't trick any Tolkien virgins into thinking Frodo's really being killed. But the look of pain on EW's face is incredibly realistic--much more so, IMHO, than what ended up in the movie. Don't suppose there's any chance someone has that pic lying around anywhere?


you mean this one?

http://maggiebear.crosswinds.net/scans01/scans04.jpg

IIRC it's from last year's FOTR daily calendar. It has some pretty good pictures. This year's even better, since they put pictures on every page, the first one only has a picture every 2 or 3 pages. Hopefully the TTT one that's coming out will have 365 pictures as well. ;)

Hi Deluby! :)

I had a look around at the available online Ash Wednesday reviews. This is a little quote from the Cinemaspeak review (C. Raines):

"Elijah Wood -- I don't know, I just can't explain it. I feel bad to say this, but I kept waiting for Bilbo Baggins to jump out and give him the ring. I couldn't take him seriously as Burns' brother -- completely the wrong casting choice to me. It's probably not fair for me to typecast Wood as a hobbit and I'm trying not to. But to be honest, when The Two Towers hits theaters this winter, all bets are off."

Perhaps it was smart of EJW to not rush into a lot of new projects once he got home from NZ, after all. OTOH, the less other films he appear in, the more a "hobbit" typecast he probably risks being in everybody's eyes.

I'll try to be a bit more active around this forum, not just in here. I'm so childish :rolleyes: ; - I miss my avatar and custom user text. :rolleyes:

Edit: Woo-hoo! We're on page 5 already!:cool:

don't shoot the messenger, but here are two not so nice review of Ash Wednesday :(
from NYPOST (http://www.nypost.com/movies/49059.htm)
from NY Daily News, scroll to middle of the page (http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/movies/story/25946p-24541c.html)

and hi Maeglian :)

More comments on Wood in Ash Wednesday:

This one is from TV Guide's Movie Guide:


"The impish Wood is a little light as Sean, who's inextricably bound by the same family ties that robbed him of a promising future and made him a fugitive from the only life he's even known, but the supporting cast is top-notch. "



From the Associated Press:

"From key co-stars such as Elijah Wood and Rosario Dawson right down to bit players, Burns elicits unaffected, understated performances that feel genuine and inspired by the characters' passions of the moment."


When I see phrases like "impish" and those ME references in the reviews that Maeglian and and deluby posted, I begin to worry about the issue of typecasting. Now Elwood can't help his looks (as if!!!), nor can he grow six inches, but let us hope he can find the roles that will make such heretics believers in his ability. I'm holdin' out for Einstein!

btw: Hello to all new and old faculty members! I've been extraordinarily busy, and unable give the wonderful analyses of FoTR here their due. But I did want to let you all know that your insights are read and valued.
You know, there are many sites one can visit on the 'net which are mindless, brainless wastes of time, where you lose brain cells just by visiting. This is one of the few sites I know of where I learn something every time I come by.
To the Faculty! :k

Alexan! So happy to see you here! :k :) I like that name. {{{Alexan}}}

Hello deluby! Welcome to the Lounge! Thanks for the pic. And here's the 'companion' pic for the one you've posted. Hmm, since we're on a new page might as well repost yours as well ;) :

http://maggiebear.crosswinds.net/scans02/scans12.jpg
http://maggiebear.crosswinds.net/scans01/scans04.jpg


While waiting for Alexan to spoil us with good 'Ash Wednesday' info (as opposed to these 'critical' reviews :p - thanks, Maeg, deluby and peaceweaver!) here're the Frodo-related Gandalf moments that we've been discussing:

http://www.classicxf.com/images/FOTR/shire/034truthrevealed.jpg

http://www.classicxf.com/images/FOTR/rivendell/119council.jpg
http://www.classicxf.com/images/FOTR/rivendell/121council.jpg

I like the look on Boromir's face there: this wee little feller has just volunteered to go save the world -- "What the heck?! For real?!" :p :D


http://www.classicxf.com/images/FOTR/moria/retouched/174moria.jpg
http://www.classicxf.com/images/FOTR/moria/retouched/179moria.jpg

All screencaps from Penny's site.

Also - thanks, Hewene, for the heads-up on that mag. Or, as tg puts it, textbook. :D

Yes, deluby, that's the one--and you can bet I've saved it this time! Thanks to deluby and ainon for those.

ainon, LOL at the comment on Boromir (although I think the Elves look even more astonished). Here's the bit from the book, when Bilbo volunteers:
Boromir looked in surprise at Bilbo, but the laughter died on his lips when he saw that all the others regarded the old hobbit with grave respect. Only Gloin smiled, but his smile came from old memories.
Of course, in the movie the Elves haven't had 17 years to get acquainted with Bilbo--or any hobbits.

-------------------------------

Regarding the Ash Wednesday reviews--I won't dump on reviewers who say Elijah's too young for the part; he very possibly is (as far as being married for three years, etc.). But those who say he's too "slight" (hmmm... euphemism for "little"?) or "impish," IMHO are feeding into stereotypes. And, yeah, I've ragged on this before :rolleyes: . I'm sure there were short guys who looked younger than they really were in Hell's Kitchen during the 1980's. They had to try to survive, too, just like physically bigger and older-looking guys. So why would a movie have to show only the bigger and older-looking ones? Because that's what the audience would expect? That's the only reason I can think of. The reviewers may not even be conscious of supporting stereotypes in saying things like this, but IMO that's what they're doing. High praises for people like Burns who don't mind stepping outside the stereotype and showing the audience reality instead of what it expects. Now, if I could just get a chance to judge the acting for myself...

--------------------------------

Maeg--that's one "problem" with this thread--it takes so long to write one post that it's hard to get to 30!! I did run around the site some yesterday to check things out and added a few more posts in some threads that have shorter ones--but the one I just left in "Predestination and Fate in Middle-earth" (maybe not exact title) didn't help much, speed-wise ;) .

Rats! Deluby beat me! I knew I had that skewered shot (would you expect anything less?) but wasn't fast enough to post it. :p

Welcome also to Alexan - So I guess Ringbearer didn't drag you back as strongly as you thought? :cool: You are right though, this thread and all the fandom threads from the former Imladris are unique and interesting beasties - and once you get into them, it is VERY hard to tear yourself away.

For all the not so positive reviews of AW, I am still interested in seeing it. 'Miscast' was a term I thought when I heard a description of his character, but not having seen it, I kept my opinions to myself. I am sorry it has turned out to be close to the mark. I will still see it anyway.

Thank you also for those who agreed with me on that IM quote. I never read anywhere where it was discussed on the old thread, but I know when I heard that interview, I thought 'man, are you SURE?' and I am glad others had the same impression as I did.

Nothing else to say... too early in the AM for me to think coherently... just wanted to say welcome to the delurkers and thanks for the wonderful insights from everyone.

Ariel

Posted by Ariel
For all the not so positive reviews of AW, I am still interested in seeing it. 'Miscast' was a term I thought when I heard a description of his character, but not having seen it, I kept my opinions to myself. I am sorry it has turned out to be close to the mark. I will still see it anyway.


I have to admit, of his three newer, yet unseen (by me, anyway) movies this was the one I was most worried about, and precisely for this reason. I remember thinking when I saw some screen shots from Ash Wednesday that he looked a bit too young to have been married for three years, and I was worried that maybe he was miscast. I'm so confident in his ability, and so eager to see him in something new, that I could probably suspend my doubt and give it a fair chance, but people who don't know who he is, or have had no previous knowledge of him outside of LOTR, are probably not going to buy it.

But like you Ariel, I still want to see it. Aside from some of his very early movies, which had some spotty moments, I don't think I have seen him give a bad performance, and I want to judge for myself. Now if only we get the chance!

Edit: After posting this I realized there was one other movie I didn't particularly like him in--I thought he was out of his element in Black and White. That's one movie of his I can never watch again.

Originally posted by Maeglian
Alexan, how great to see you here. Wonderful that you managed to go see Ash Wednesday, and thank you for the review!

I have one question which also contains a spoiler:
You say that EJW's character Sean kills somebody on screen.(That would be in the bar when he overhears some guys talking, right?) I am curious about, - how did he *look* in that scene? Calm and detached, or very angry and frantic like in that glimpse we get of Frodo fighting someone in the TTT trailer?

Thank you. I haven't seen that latest trailer..if that's the one your referring to. But to tell you the truth a little bit of both almost...but some what more frantic–because well these are the people who are going to kill his brother....if he doesn't do some thing.

"Elijah Wood -- I don't know, I just can't explain it. I feel bad to say this, but I kept waiting for Bilbo Baggins to jump out and give him the ring. I couldn't take him seriously as Burns' brother -- completely the wrong casting choice to me. It's probably not fair for me to typecast Wood as a hobbit and I'm trying not to. But to be honest, when The Two Towers hits theaters this winter, all bets are off."

I'm just going to say one thing towards all this. You know I've known a few people who've been parents and/or married at that age, one even related to the mob, and frankly Elijah WAS believable. :D

Hello to all the Faculty members, new and people I knew from before, and thanks for the hugs. It was a little rough getting through that time with no one/thing to talk about, but I guess that goth period I went through helped me survive (hell, I'm still going through it, just not as much :)).
–Alexan

Thank you, Alexan.

I noted that both those reviews Deluby posted links to, used the word "ludicrous" to describe Wood's acting/casting. Hmmm..... All of this just makes me want to see that film all the more. I still think I'll like it very much. Both EJW and the general storyline sees to that. As for language, it can't possibly be as bad as in Black and White, anyway. You are right about that one, Shadow; - someone would have to pay me very serious money to ever make me consider watching B&W a second time (exept for the end credits, of course :o )

Ainon, thanks for the great pics. I am not certain I've ever seen the first one before.

And I am *very* happy to be among such excellent and admirable screencappers here, now that the SE DVD release is drawing near!! :)

Edit:
I keep forgetting posting this, what with the recent upheavals. However, referring back to that Burne-Jones painting that WildGoose mentioned, the one with the Mordor/Dead Marshes landscape and the weary and pained pilgrim. I've found it online, it can be seen at the Tate Gallery's home page. Just go to to tate.org.uk and do a search for "Love and the Pilgrim".

Well this might seem a little schizophrenic but its Viola here on viola's laptop computer back in london, but using cadmo's post...the penalty for letting prim play on my laptop! didn't realise that she would need to re-register on a new computer and now when I try to get in it automatically says I'm Cadmo/prim (not sure what she will think about that!!) -still she can't complain too much as I took the DVD home to nz and courtesy of our youngest sister who has a laptop with DVD drive, got to watch the features disc (girlie night in) after hearing everyone on the Imladris site talk about it so often....and guess which featurettes she was particularly interested in??? LOL :)

(((faculty))) -thanks so much for all the hugs re our mum -she's still not well and we are waiting with baited breath to see whether the new treatment will help the pain.


It's great to see that the thread is really humming! :D

Only problem is (echo tg here) that it takes ages to read all the posts as I am pages behind...which means that I don't have much time to add my own bits.

SPOILER

so, briefly...re the skewering. there are down sides to being a doctor-I got annoyed at the skewering because he fell forwards onto the sword and the angle at which he was "skewered" means that that is not physically possible, with the length of the "skewer". also the extra screen caps show that the point of "skewering" is in the lower left chest on the frontal view, and the tear in the other view, shows that the "skewering" is in the upper right chest. big booboo

as for the I'm not hurt...that could be right, in that people with significant injuries often don't feel them for a significant amount of time because adrenaline and endorphins block the pain. I thought the lagging behind because of the pain just got cut, as did the remainder of the journey out of moria in the interests of time, but I could be wrong.


re Galadriel and Lothlorien...I agree that it is a bit piecemeal and reads much better in the book. I always find Galadriel rather impersonal and ambivalent. I assume this is because she herself desires the ring, and also sees something of the future which I am sure makes life difficult -how much can she say without altering the future, and yet give frodo enough information to make him strong and independent enough to pursue the quest??

anyway back later, hopefully under my own name after I contact moggy and find out how to fix this

cadmo -sorry:( :k

viola

Originally posted by Viola
...re the skewering. there are down sides to being a doctor-I got annoyed at the skewering because he fell forwards onto the sword and the angle at which he was "skewered" means that that is not physically possible, with the length of the "skewer". also the extra screen caps show that the point of "skewering" is in the lower left chest on the frontal view, and the tear in the other view, shows that the "skewering" is in the upper right chest. big booboo

To change your login, go to this screen Khazad-dum Main Page (http://www.khazaddum.com/forums/index.php?s=) and at the bottom you will see a small link entitled "Log Out" - click on that and it should allow you to log in under your own name.

As for the cut on the shirt,
http://web.kcnet.org/arielshouse/Moriastabbed2.jpg
I notice this too, but my belief is that it is so obviously in the wrong place, Frodo isn't even holding that side of his chest, that that cut is from something else that has occured during either the battle or their 4 day journey through Moria. There are other Moria scenes coming,
http://web.kcnet.org/arielshouse/ExtFroMoria.jpg
as evidenced by the Extended Version preview, and it may be that we will see what may have caused that cut, if they bother to explain it at all. Running about in pitch black, you are likely to run into something unsavory anyway.

Ariel

Originally posted by Cadmo/prim/viola/patient suffering from multiple personality disorder ;)
as for the I'm not hurt...that could be right, in that people with significant injuries often don't feel them for a significant amount of time because adrenaline and endorphins block the pain. I thought the lagging behind because of the pain just got cut, as did the remainder of the journey out of moria in the interests of time, but I could be wrong.
That's what I'm "choosing to believe" since we don't see anything between Moria and entering Lothlorien. Of course, they all know about the mithril shirt already.

re Galadriel and Lothlorien...I agree that it is a bit piecemeal and reads much better in the book. I always find Galadriel rather impersonal and ambivalent. I assume this is because she herself desires the ring, and also sees something of the future which I am sure makes life difficult -how much can she say without altering the future, and yet give frodo enough information to make him strong and independent enough to pursue the quest??
I posted this in another thread awhile back and some people agreed and some didn't, so anyway...

I see a very big shift in personality from pre-test Galadriel to post-test Galadriel. Pre-test G is unemotional, nonexpressive, aloof, and, well, spooky. Immediately after she recovers from the test she seems to become a different person--more engaged on a personal level, with more natural expressions and emotions. This is one of several things about movie-G that I find really thought-provoking.

IMHO it it strikes me as "right" that she would go through this kind of a transformation. In the movie (more so than in the book, I think) she is at that moment making the decision of whether or not to take the Ring. In the book, I think she's tempted (so still has to "pass the test") but she's already made her decision. This could fit with post-test G being more like the Galadriel people know from the book--in the book we meet her when she's already at least partially come to terms with her response to the Ring. Does any of this make sense?

IIRC, after the test there's no more "thought projection" to Frodo--I don't think the voice-over as the Fellowship is leaving is meant to be that. I do love that we're in Frodo's POV when she raises her hand in farewell and we see her ring, since in the book Frodo's the only one who can see it. I also very much like that Frodo "thought projects" to her once--the first time I saw the movie I was hoping that would happen and was very glad when it did, as it makes their bond as ring-bearers that much stronger; as the Ring-bearer, he's not "inferior" to her. It could almost be interpreted as a challenge to her--which is how she seems to interpret his offer of the Ring in the book, as there she says he's getting "gentle revenge" (or something like that) for her testing of him when they first met. We haven't done a critical, frame-by-frame study of the mirror scene yet, have we? Will have to see exactly what his facial expression is while he's "thinking" to her.

Originally posted by tgshaw
I also very much like that Frodo "thought projects" to her once--the first time I saw the movie I was hoping that would happen and was very glad when it did, as it makes their bond as ring-bearers that much stronger; as the Ring-bearer, he's not "inferior" to her. It could almost be interpreted as a challenge to her--which is how she seems to interpret his offer of the Ring in the book, as there she says he's getting "gentle revenge" (or something like that) for her testing of him when they first met. We haven't done a critical, frame-by-frame study of the mirror scene yet, have we? Will have to see exactly what his facial expression is while he's "thinking" to her.
Oh, I was pleased about this, too, although it took awhile (for me) for it to register that it was significant. And yes, yes! Screencaps! Gee, do you really even have to ask? :D

I also agree about the tear in his shirt. I think that's an incidental tear, and has nothing to do with said "skewering." And Ainon, I've never seen that first shot of Frodo's face, either. I love the sheen of perspiration on his face, and his eyes just seem to glow in that shot (wait... better save comments like that for Hobmom's thread!).

Ariel, what's that second picture you posted? Is that to be on the extended DVD? Oooh... just about a month left! Makes me all tingly...:cool:

Hi everyone,

Couldn't resist coming here for a last-minute posting, I should really be packing my case for going away tomorrow, but that can wait. :p

Alexan - Hobbit Lover - Alexan - Hobbit Lover. Think I'll remember that now! Welcome back!

Hi deluby, Hi Hewene. Thanks for that link, Hewene, - is that an actual magazine featuring Elijah that's coming out?

Prim and Viola - fingers crossed the new treatment helps.


Wow, this thread is moving reeaaaallllyyy fast! :) I'm having trouble catching up. I'll have a lot more to read when I come back, will have to take time out to read all these great posts! I wish I could read as fast as Johnny 5 in that movie, Short Circuit! :D

A quote taken from one of the reviews that deluby posted -

But Wood, who sounds like he's been vacationing in Middle Earth, is simply ludicrous as Sean.
What are they trying to say, that he's still got his English accent? And all that stuff we keep reading about his size and the way he looks, pffff. I for one would rather watch a 'slight', small guy who can actually act than a muscly Arnold Swartzeneggar-type who can't act for peanuts!

And the nydailynews gave Pokemon 4Ever a better review than AW! Surely it can't be that bad? I'd go and see it anyways.

shilohmm - I've not been in the Hobmom's thread to post that picture yet - maybe someone's beaten me to it and posted it there already, I don't know. I'll have a look.

Shadow - yeah Black and White is a bit bleurgh. He does seem a little, erm, how should I put it, uncomfortable during his scenes there. Maybe he was a little nervous as it was an improvised script? And he's not in it enough! But it's always nice to see him in something, so I'll forgive him for doing that film!

tg - a week on Monday means the 21st to me, a bit confusing. I'd usually say just 'next Monday' if I was meaning the 14th.

Anyway, what I really came here to say was, I was mucking about on eBay, went onto the online auctions, typed in EW's name and a list of stuff came up. Among it was a copy of, wait for it...


CHAIN OF FOOLS DVD! :eek:

Go here to view it -

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1569197644

The auction is taking place in just over 2 day's time - maybe some of you could fight it out and try to win it! ;) Good luck if you do :)

Right I better go now!

I'll be back hopefully on Friday. See you all later!

((((Faculty))))

I just checked out Luthiea's Ebay link, and if anyone's interested, there's also a "Buy It Now" price which, if I understand correctly, you can pay to buy it right now without waiting for the auction. As soon as someone posts a bid, the "Buy It Now" option is gone. The "Buy It Now" price is GPB 19.99, or appoximately 31.21 U.S. dollars. It's from an Australian seller and is Region 4 (PAL) coding. Info says it's brand-new, never opened, bought directly from Warner Brothers, not pirated.

So if anyone who can use Region 4 coding wants to buy it at that price, I'd say go for it. But, then, I'm not a risk-taker. It could go for less (or more) at the auction. It's classified as a "rare" :rolleyes: DVD.

Oh yes, if someone can play the Region 4 format, Chain of Fools is a complete hoot. It deserves the status of "rare" DVD. I guess we can hope that Warner Bros will ultimately release the film in a format those of us in North America can play, except that might diminish the value of the auctioned item.

Did everyone notice that the Elwood on the Osbournes episode is supposed to be aired in the US tonight? MTV, 10:30 eastern, 9:30 central. But MTV is accustomed to changing their schedules almost at whim, so I am afraid to get my hopes up!

Oh, yes, you wizards who can do screencaps, please do the Mirror scene. Two blue boards ago, there was an extensive and wonderful discussion of this scene, but I suppose all that wisdom has fallen into shadow... I don't recall the analysis tackling the issue of Glads' telecommunication (and Frodo's response) in that earlier discussion though. Remember, we can leave no detail unanalyzed!

:D

by tgshaw:
I see a very big shift in personality from pre-test Galadriel to post-test Galadriel. Pre-test G is unemotional, nonexpressive, aloof, and, well, spooky. Immediately after she recovers from the test she seems to become a different person--more engaged on a personal level, with more natural expressions and emotions. This is one of several things about movie-G that I find really thought-provoking.

Oh yea, tg, a big change in her, no doubt about it. Up until she passed the test, she was a definite threat to Frodo! That damn Ring!! Thus, the "seduction" scene, IMO.

For those who thought Galadrial kind of "cold and aloof", well - sorry, but she was. The Elves kept themselves apart from other species by design, and she was the Queen of that policy. They had seen far too many people, towns, kingdoms, races disappear. You would learn not to care as much as possible if you were immortal. I'm sure she was not aloof to other Elves, but she was certainly held in awe and caution. She had a great deal of power and wisdom, and used it almost exclusively to protect her Elf Realm. Note the arrows pointed at Legolas. At Legolas, no less! The freakin' Prince of Mirkwood, just down the road! And Haldir was not the least bit afraid of repercussions from the Queen about it, either!

Personally, I love Galadrial. I can see that I would become much like her. All I need is immortality, a history of war for power, a magic ring of power, incredible beauty, a love of my own people, a need to rule a realm of my very own and the ability to do it.....and I'm there! :D

P.S. I could do it without Celeborn, however. He must have been bloody something in the sack, huh?

My apologies to the sweet and meek among us. *devil horns here*

off topic: apologies people
Viola: registering and logging on are different. I logged on, its left some cookies. (check your email for details on how to dump them)

edit: duh just read Ariel's post (its straight under yours): she gives you a shortcut to logout with. Then go and register. Thanks Ariel!!!:)





from tg I see a very big shift in personality from pre-test Galadriel to post-test Galadriel.

Yes, I agree, and I'd never quite seen it like that before. This change should be even more noticeable with the extended versions gift giving scene. I actually really like the "spooky" almost sinister Galadriel. It really hints at her as a woman/elf of immense power.

Remember when we discussed the Nuclear Glads scene and LEK was unhappy with EW/Frodo's lacklustre reaction to her transformation? Well, since he had just thought transferred to her, and that seems to imply a mind connection, could that explain his lack of terror?

Hi deluby !!Welcome to the Fac. Do we know you by another name?

Fascinating Frodo discussions! I did read them all but am too dead tired to think of anything intelligent to add. I had one creative thought, but then someone else brought it up by the end so that'll have to do.

I would like to thank Hewene for posting the link to that magazine. I ordered it, and they only charged $1.00 for shipping to the US (the mag is $3.99), even though it's a British publication. It will probably come via the slow bought from China, but hey - it'll be a nice treat when it arrives. :)

After reading all the Ash Wednesday reviews, I wonder exactly how and why Elijah landed that role. Was he sought out? Did he seek it out? Were he and Ed Burns friends before? Very odd casting choice, especially since they don't look anything like brothers. But of course I want desperately to see it regardless of the reviews. And thanks Alexan for your wonderful review (and hi by the way!), and to everyone who posted the critics' reviews. I think I have a couple more that weren't posted here yet, but I'll just have to dig through them later. I will also have another EW fan review in the next day or two (I actually like those best).

Welcome to deluby!

Well, I'm here in my own person

thanks for the advice about how to correct things...took me a while to find the logout (the downside of a small laptop with even smaller print size, even on full screen!) but it worked!!

thanks Lutheia for the kind thoughts re mum.

Carly -you want to be like Galadriel - before or after the "nuclear" transformation?? LOL

Immortality though...hmmm sounds wonderful, as long as there is no RL and no wet trouts in sight! ;)

Nothing much else to say except for jealousy at everyone else seeming to have seen lots of other movies with Elwood in them..so far I've only seen the Faculty and then only the last half as I got home too late from work. After that I appreciated his acting ability even more.

ooh, and I'm excited, because I managed to pick up the 2003 diary/calendar in HMV yesterday-plenty of pics of LOTR including some lovely ones of EW, as well as the others, (including Bilbo, who inexplicably always gets left out of the photos, as does Boromir)-its made by oneline, and seems to be available in the States but not sure if elsewhere...

viola

Viola! You're yourself again! :) :) Hope the new treatment will help your mom. {{Prim & Viola}}

And Carly! About time you came prancing back in here! :cool:

Originally posted by Shadow
I remember thinking when I saw some screen shots from Ash Wednesday that he looked a bit too young to have been married for three years, and I was worried that maybe he was miscast.

I had the same worry. I asked Alexan about this in PM - apparently Sean's age is 18 - 21 in the movie. So he wasn't miscast, age-wise. We might be dealing with very negative viewer bias here. We'll have to wait for Elve to put up Elijah-centric fan reviews. ;)


The Moria skewering

In the movie proper we don't actually see where Frodo is 'skewered', do we? Gee, I guess I'll just have to go and watch again to check. :p Frodo does put his hand on his chest though:

http://www.imagemagician.com/images/ainon/LoTR/Frodoch.jpg
http://www.imagemagician.com/images/ainon/LoTR/Frododh.jpg

Can't remember where I saved the original screencaps from. :o I've trimmed the images to show only Frodo & Sam. In the first pic, Frodo is glancing past Aragorn (who should be on the left there) - probably looking at Gandalf.

As for why the mithril shirt is revealed here -

***ROTK SPOILER***

Gandalf and Pippin are expected to see and recognise the mithril shirt in ROTK. So it's necessary for Gandalf to see Frodo wearing the shirt.

****/END SPOILER



We're redoing the mirror analysis? Woo Hoo! I raided Penny's site last time, but now we've got experts in our own Faculty who can give us 'proper' screencaps. This'll be fun. :) :D

My very small contribution to start off the mirror and Galadriel analysis - an alternate angle pic:

http://maggiebear.crosswinds.net/scans01/scans03.jpg


Also -- check this out, at TORN: Frodo & co cupholder (http://img-www.theonering.net/images/scrapbook/4914.jpg)

And there are reviews of the Extended Version at TORN. Go read and drool. ;)

Last night I felt the need to remind myself why I go to the bother (sometimes, you know what I mean :rolleyes: ) of doing all this, so besides re-reading parts of the book I spent some time with various movie scenes--mostly ones we've talked about here, of course.

First question, because, man, this was almost freaking me out :eek: -- who was it that pointed out the "not quite blinking" in the confrontation with Boromir? It's true!! It's true!! Not that I doubted anyone's observation, but seeing it myself was just too strange. I went through the entire scene, frame-by-frame when necessary (meaning when Frodo was on-screen), and there's only one real blink during the whole thing (by Elijah, I mean; afraid I wasn't paying too much attention to the other guy)--and that's towards the beginning, when Boromir first arrives. During that blink, Frodo also turns his head away from Boromir, so that one seems like a purposeful avoiding of eye contact--maybe hoping he'll just go away? But there are several of those not-quite-blinks. I started out counting them, but was just too blown away--four or so, maybe. This is just too weird! I've never heard of such a thing. And the whole action is just a bit different from a regular blink--you can tell on the first frame of the action that it's going to be an "almost" rather than a "full"--it's very droopy-eyed, which I also recall from the screencap posted previously. Does anyone know if this is a common acting practice that we've never noticed before--just because we've never analyzed any acting this closely before? If not, who came up with it--Elijah or PJ? A definite question to ask EW, if there's still room on that list.

I also did some looking--and a bit of screencapping--at the mirror scene but afraid I'll have to come back to that later (got a bit too carried away the blinking there, but man...), as I have to leave to take my poor little car to have the insurance guy decide if she's worth fixing. I'm sure he'll say she isn't, but if they give me the "totaled out" amount (the official worth of the car, which is probably less than it would cost to completely fix it), I'm going to have my regular mechanics--who I really trust and who've been taking care of her since she was "born" 11 years ago--check her out and see if she isn't pretty fixable as far as anything important is concerned. Cosmetics I can do without. It's just about light enough now to drive without headlights (which, of course, I don't have ;) ).

Will try to be back later, although I won't be able to do anything with the screencaps until tonight, since I have to do that on my home computer. OTOH, for anyone who's interested, I'm hoping within the next few hours to be able to get a hobbit-related thread started in The Green Dragon (I can do that from the office :p ).

Edit:Ainon got in while I was posting. Nice to have the alternate angle. I'll just say that while Frodo looks plenty worried while "thinking" to Galadriel and offering her the Ring, my impression was that he really stands his ground.

Originally posted by ainon
***ROTK SPOILER***

Gandalf and Pippin are expected to see and recognise the mithril shirt in ROTK. So it's necessary for Gandalf to see Frodo wearing the shirt.

****/END SPOILER


Quite true - though those of us who have read the books know Gandalf has already seen the shirt while Bilbo had it - non-readers would not have known this - good point!

Originally posted by tgshaw
Does anyone know if this is a common acting practice that we've never noticed before--just because we've never analyzed any acting this closely before?

Actually, the lack of blinking is part of the natural 'fight or flight' response inherent in humans. It goes along with the adrenlin and paling of features. The fact that Elwood can call up these responses (and seriously, I don't think he does it conciously, I think he just thinks "you're scared" and the responses come naturally) indicates what a splendid, natural actor he is. I knew that degree in Biology would come in handy! ;)

As for the warmer Galadriel after the 'testing' - I too noticed that in both book (though in book she also is sadder after the testing - as if she knows that by choosing as she has, she has well and truely doomed her people, even if they were already doomed for all intents and purposes.) I found the following still from the Extended version which I find probably the loveliest image of Glads from the film:
http://web.kcnet.org/arielshouse/EVGaladrielwarm.jpg
She looks positively radiant (I adore Cate as an actress anyway :)) but this has to be the prettiest she gets to be in the entire film. She seems decidedly warmer than when she first met the fellowship and this seems to fall quite nicely in with what has been discussed above. Ironically, the first time through, they CUT this lovely image out. :mad: I can only imagine how I as an actress would feel if the shot where I looked my absolute best never made it to the final film. Oh, well, I am glad it is going back into the EV...

Ariel

Tgshaw, I was the one who noted the half-blinking in the Boromir scene - and I originally found it accidentally, as I was actually looking for blinking screencaps from the whole movie for another purpose. It is amazing, though, isn't it, that he maintains it so completely during the scene? (Especially considering they would not have done it in one take - it may have taken a day to do the whole scene!)I thought I'd repost one of the images, because I removed the pictures that I had previously put on CoE (or Imly - I don't remember how long ago it was...)

http://www.imagemagician.com/images/carrol/halfblink1.JPG

It happens so fast that you don't really see it in regular motion - but I suspect our brains register it and it reinforces our sense of his wariness, distrust and fear. It's extremely hard to do, if you try to do it consciously, so I am sure this is one of those microexpression 'gifts' he has.

According to box office Mojo, Ash Wednesday grossed $4000 in its opening weekend. A significant contrast to the anticipated gross of the TTT opening weekend, I assume. :p


About the mirror of Galadriel discussion, one thing that definitely could impact on Frodo's behaviour there is the timeline of the story. If the mirror scene occurs on the very night that the Fellowship arrives in Lothlorien, Frodo is not only suffering from fatigue and lack of sleep, but he's still in deep shock over the loss of Gandalf. On the other hand if they, like in the book, have had time to recover and rest for some time, his responses at the mirror will be more reflecting "his true self". There is nothing to indicate that the mirror scene does not occur the very same night they arrive, is there? I'll have to check the scene out again. For instance, is Frodo wearing the same shirt and has it been washed and mended?

Another thing, I really *love* Cate's portrayal of Galadriel before she goes nuclear. Aloof, haughty, enigmatic, sharp-sighted and intelligent, prepared to do what must be done..... I remember Pearl commenting some time ago (hope I get this about right); This is no kindly woodland lady, but Galadriel from the Silmarillion, proud and mighty among the Noldor. I think that's a good description, and Cate Blanchett portrays her fantastically. However, it will be even more wonderful to get the contrast of the way she's portrayed in the gift-giving scene in the SE DVD.

Just a quick note - I've always assumed it was the same night, because the scenes immediately before show everyone setting up their sleeping area, and then Aragorn and Boromir have their 'get some rest, these borders are well protected' discussion - indicating they have not yet slept in Lothlorien. Frodo wakes up exactly where we see him sitting as the others talk - and Merry etc are in the same places as well.

I don't think having washed and changed prove that any significant time period has passed - I think they have all washed by the time these scenes occur. We see Legolas in different clothes, and they have all at least washed their faces before we see them getting ready to sleep that night.

Originally posted by Narya Celebrian
Tgshaw, I was the one who noted the half-blinking in the Boromir scene - and I originally found it accidentally, as I was actually looking for blinking screencaps from the whole movie for another purpose. It is amazing, though, isn't it, that he maintains it so completely during the scene? (Especially considering they would not have done it in one take - it may have taken a day to do the whole scene!)I thought I'd repost one of the images, because I removed the pictures that I had previously put on CoE (or Imly - I don't remember how long ago it was...)

It happens so fast that you don't really see it in regular motion - but I suspect our brains register it and it reinforces our sense of his wariness, distrust and fear. It's extremely hard to do, if you try to do it consciously, so I am sure this is one of those microexpression 'gifts' he has.

Originally posted by Ariel
Actually, the lack of blinking is part of the natural 'fight or flight' response inherent in humans. It goes along with the adrenlin and paling of features. The fact that Elwood can call up these responses (and seriously, I don't think he does it conciously, I think he just thinks "you're scared" and the responses come naturally) indicates what a splendid, natural actor he is. I knew that degree in Biology would come in handy!

Someone needs to hook that kid up to some electrodes and find out what's going on in that brain... This is just too weird! Maybe it's just because I've never seen or heard of anything like it specifically in an actor before. I guess I accept the existence of special abilities in other areas--like Mozart never making a correction on a composition because he'd hear it in his head and get it down perfectly the first time. (But I know there are people who wish they had a chance to study Mozart's brain, too :p !) IIRC, we had a discussion awhile back about whether EJW could be considered a "prodigy"--I think there's more evidence for that all the time. I would just love to know if he does any of this consciously--but, in a way, that would be even more amazing.

Edit: Well, in the midst of all that, I forgot I was going to make a comment about the Lorien timeline. The movie's pretty ambiguous about the timing of the mirror scene (like the timing of a lot of other things :rolleyes: ). It could be the first night, but there doesn't seem to be any indication that it has to be. The previous scenes all seem to be the first night, but then there's a scene change, and who knows? BTW, IIRC those who pay more attention to Legolas than I do decided he's always wearing that silver tunic--it's just that it's usually under his outer clothing. The elvish equivalent of the hobbits stripping down to their suspenders?

Hello, all! I just had a quick couple of things to add...

Re: the half-blinking thing--Ariel, that is so cool to know that this is an actual physical response to danger. How remarkable that it can appear when he is "only acting." I doubt it was intentional, and frankly, I wouldn't even want to point it out to him. He seems to work so instinctively... I wouldn't want to make him self-conscious about one iota of anything he does. Or, maybe that's not even possible, but why risk it? I just wouldn't want to cramp his style...

But it's also got me wondering about other actors doing similar scenes... at the risk of sounding blasphemous, I can't help but wonder if this blinking phenomenon is actually much more common in acting than we realize. I mean, has anyone done any frame-by-frame analysis of other actors or actresses in similar scenes? Not that it would be nearly so interesting with anyone else, but I'm just saying...
;)

Thank you for all the welcomes, I've been following you guys since Casting in Imladris, but never posted anything because I'm the kind that rather like "listening" to the discussion than posting anything myself. ;) Just wanna say Thank you, I learned a lot just by reading this thread. You all amaze me :) http://www.council-of-elrond.com/forums/images/smilies/notworthy.gif
Love you all :k


p.s. Is it kinda scary that there are lurkers like me watching you all these time? I know I would :eek: :D

now back to your regular programming :D

Originally posted by BunnieBugs
... at the risk of sounding blasphemous, I can't help but wonder if this blinking phenomenon is actually much more common in acting than we realize.

Actually, I agree. I think a lot of times we watch something and note that the character an actor is portraying is frightened. I think it has a lot to do with 'microexpressions' and the visible characteristics we know go along with that particular emotion. We KNOW the character is frightened because of the way he acts - if an actor DIDN'T do the right microexpressions for a fear response, I think it would be a heck of a lot more noticeable than if he did. The lack of blinking is something that I really doubt EW does conciously - it is just part of what he knows as a 'fear' response, though it is a reflex that is under some concious control so I suppose he could.

Now, if the boy could drain the color from his face on cue, I would be really impressed.

:D

Ariel

Originally posted by Maeglian
According to box office Mojo, Ash Wednesday grossed $4000 in its opening weekend. A significant contrast to the anticipated gross of the TTT opening weekend, I assume. :p

Thank you for that info Maeglian. I was wondering about that.

I have a question for all the Loungers here. A lot of people have been finding it hard to believe Elijah as a killer, husband and father etc. in his new movie Ash Wednesday. (I deffinitely not being one of them) Well obviously he'll have many different roles in his career and what not.....what I was wondering was when he plays a disturbing role or some thing not very nice, how will you react towards it? I remember him saying once (well no to me, lol) that it'd be a challenge or strange playing some one messed up in the head, and several times saying he wouldn't want to be known for just one role/character all his life and wants to keep playing different ones. So just think of the worst thing he could be in your head and how what you think about that. For myself I don't think certain things would bother me as much. But hey I haven't seen the worst yet so...

–Alexan

what I was wondering was when he plays a disturbing role or some thing not very nice, how will you react towards it? I remember him saying once (well no to me, lol) that it'd be a challenge or strange playing some one messed up in the head, and several times saying he wouldn't want to be known for just one role/character all his life and wants to keep playing different ones. So just think of the worst thing he could be in your head and how what you think about that.

I am one of the lucky ones who saw Lij portray a very bad boy in the one-hour episode of "Homicide", altho that was before he was Frodo. However, it counts, as it was after I knew him as Frodo. And my reaction was - brilliant!!

It was interesting and awesome, watching him be an evil little fellow, using his brains and connections to run everyone's lives just for the sake of controlling others. IMO he did every bit as good a job as he did as Frodo, except it was only a shallow, one-hour role to get into. But he carried it off - and was very believable. I am not crazy about every part he played as a youngster, but never-the-less, I love to watch Elijah act. And as he gets older, it just gets more and more fun to watch.

BTW, I saw B&W, too. Yuck! But if I could cut out the rest, and rewatch only his scenes, I would certainly watch it again and again. But I got the feeling that my reason in that movie was that I like him so much as a person. However, isn't that also a valid reason to enjoy an actor? It worked for the likes of John Wayne and many others, didn't it?

He's a pro, that's for sure. And it is always amazing to watch a pro at work in any field.

That's just MY opinion, but I'll defend it, and him, to the end! And that from an Elf girl!

Originally posted by Carleenya
I am one of the lucky ones who saw Lij portray a very bad boy in the one-hour episode of "Homicide", altho that was before he was Frodo. However, it counts, as it was after I knew him as Frodo. And my reaction was - brilliant!!


How I wish I could get my hands on this episode! The stills that I've seen from it just amaze me. He looks completely different, and you can tell he's an evil little punk. Just gives me the shivers. I get the feeling that he could pull of a very convincing bad guy -- wouldn't the teeny-boppers just freak? :cool:

And personally, I'd love to see him get the chance to play someone that was "messed up in the head." Think of all the pain and angst that could be involved... I'd be SO there. On the other hand, I have nothing against some lighter weight stuff, too, like the odd romantic comedy. I don't think that's exactly what Try Seventeen is, but I'd love to see him try it.

In fact, anything that helps him stretch as an actor is worth a try, as far as I'm concerned. As long as I can eventually see it...:rolleyes:

Before I saw the "Homicide" episode, I was a little bit worried I wouldn't like seeing EW play a bad guy because I always think of him as one of the good guys. But, you know, I really liked him in this role because it was so obvious he was having a great time doing it. He was a perfect little "master of the universe" and he had the school authorities and the cops going in circles trying to keep up with his dastardly doings. He had his fellow students scared to death, and apparently did what he did (manipulated younger kids to kill another student who wouldn't go along with him) just because he could. He was intelligent, contemptuous of the rest of humanity (including his mother), and amazingly enough, he did all this with only about 10-15 minutes screen time.

I'm pretty sure that he has only begun to show us what he can do as an actor. If you think about it, playing a "kid" pretty much limits the sort of stuff you can do. Elijah played mostly "serious" roles as a child actor, some normal roles, but usually he had suffered some tragic loss in his life (better source for angst). But except for the Homicide episode, no bad guys, no drug addicts, no psychos. Frankly, I can't wait to see what he does from now on. We can only hope that LOTR doesn't type cast him so that he doesn't get offered the roles he wants to play. His youthful good looks are to some extent against him, since people don't seem to see him as an "adult" (as in the idiots who reviewed "Ash Wednesday" and claim they can't picture him as anyone but Frodo. Do they look at Ian McKellan and say they can't picture him as anyone but Gandalf?) I remember in the interview that Quint did with him on AICN (around the time the Faculty came out), he said that he wanted to to darker roles, but that because no one had ever seen him do one, they didn't think he could. I'll bet he's hoping that after he shows them Frodo being driven mad by the Ring, they'll change their minds. I'll bet he can't wait. Neither can I. :)

Well, darn these bad critics reviews for Ash Wednesday, they've pretty much killed my motivation to fight the aptly described #&*$%#!! traffic into LA to see this gem (round trip plus viewing time etc could take 6 hours, just can't spare that right now. Unless I ditched work, of course, hmmm .. tempting..). Looks like my man Ed Wood, oops I meant Ed Burns may have let me down! At least some fans are liking it, so that gives me hope. One consolation is, the sooner it leaves the theatres, the sooner it'll be on video and the sooner we can ALL see it (well in theory anyway!)

Hi Louise, were you from CofE too? My memory of the thread there is rapidly fading. I agree with you that the perception of him as an actor will seriously change after TTT and the next film come out - the problem is it will still bear the burden of having been a role in a fantasy film and there is a stupid stigma in some quarters against fantasy. I think he may still need another "breakout" role in a contemporary film before people really accept him as an adult actor. Any kind of a cracked psycho/bad guy role would be just the ticket. I have no problem separating an actor from his role, so it wouldn't disturb me to see it - with his looks we may never have to worry about that anyway! It's funny, though, that the Homicide role didn't open up something similar for him in films. Or maybe there was nothing like it out there.

In answer to Alexan, and to agree with Carly, BB, and Louise, (but not having seen theHomicide episode in the UK), seeing EW in a role that "messed with your head" would be great.

In a practical sense he will need to do this anyway, to avoid being typecast as a cute little boy after FOTR (this may change after TTT comes out) and he probably realised that he needed to do that quickly. Some really good actors get stuck in the same type of roles because that is all they are offered...you read that kind of comment often in interviews. Whatever the reviews are for Ash Wednesday (and the New York Times was not too dismissive but made its usual comments that Ed Burns hogs the screen in any movie that he writes and stars in, making it difficult for his co-stars) he needed to be seen to be doing something different fairly quickly after LOTR. more power to him!

Seeing him extend his range should be a cause for celebration! :D

viola

p.s. thanks for the great picture of Cate as Galadriel -I think she is a superb actress!!

Now, if the boy could drain the color from his face on cue, I would be really impressed.

Or blush on cue. Oh wait....... :D

Re: Homicide. I got from somewhere (Elve's site probably) some clips of Elwood in the Homicide episode. Anybody not lucky enough to have seen the original would probably find these worth checking out. The whole story didn't make much sense to me without the non-Elwood bits, but he was still chilling as the bad guy.

And if I understand correctly, in Ash Wednesday, Sean isn't a bad guy as such. He's not "messed up in the head" as such. He's just an ordinary Irish-American living in Hell's Kitchen with a wife and child who takes the oportunity to protect his brother when he has the chance. Can those who've seen the movie confirm this?

It would be cool to see him in another bad guy roll now that he's an adult though.


I haven't been around for a while, so I'll just say a warm welcome to all our newcomers in the last few weeks that I haven't managed to welcome personally. I'm glad that now we're in a new place we're still getting new recruits.

{{Faculty}}

I posted a new fan review of Ash Wednesday here (http://frodoandsam.net/actors/elijahfilmography/ashwednesday.html). It has some MAJOR PLOT SPOILERS, and is very well written and comprehensive.

As far as EW playing darker roles, all I can say is YES OH YES. Call me a weirdo, but I would love to see him play some demented phychopath serial killer, something along the lines of Kevin Spacey's character in Seven. I could see him being very dark and creepy.

I have the Homicide clips but they are not on the regular download page. Anyone who wants them can PM me.

I am coming out of lurkdom to say that I am so glad to have found you here at Khazaddum. Lurked at that other site that shall not be named - followed your thread since January of this year after seeing LOTR in December. I was most dismayed to find that site temporarily inaccessible some weeks ago. I searched, (frantically might be a good description) all the LOTR and EW sites hoping to find you all somewhere. I've enjoyed your intelligent, bawdy, funny, sometimes silly thoughts and was tempted a few times to join in but must say I chickened out.

I do want to share my thoughts with you about Ash Wednesday. I am one of the seemingly few people who have had the chance to see Ash Wednesday. There I am, Sunday afternoon, first showing, 6 people in theatre (rather run down one, too) (2 of the 6 people being my sister and I). I did read 3 newspaper reviews prior to going, so the word ludicrous just stuck in my head (how two different reviewers, albeit from the same city could use the same word to describe EW was too much to take). The film began and right from the start EW's on screen, looking good!
He was NOT ludicrous, I thought he was believable as Sean, a young man-boy who made an on the spot decision to save his brother's life. I''m from NY where the story takes place, and EW as an 18-21 year old with a wife was believable. HE was believable. I've known people for whom that scenario is a reality. I think movie reviewers need to realize that sometimes their preconceived idea of reality can be a stereotype.

SPOILERS(?)

There were some moments that I think did not go off well. #1 being the wedding photo in which I think he looked a little silly and #2 near the end of the film when he's reunited with his wife - one of his lines was something like, "Oh baby I've missed you". Mmm, maybe it's because he's never spoken lines like that before. (Oh, of course, if he was using them on me that'd be a different story!) :D

Someone pointed out earlier that they felt Ed Burns knew just what he was doing when he cast Elijah in the role. There's a scene in a car with the 2 brothers talking about dad and discussing which one of them was the favorite son. It seems that their dad wanted something better for Sean, a life different from the gang scene - to go onto college and get married, etc. I think Elijah fit into that part just right.

END SPOILERS

Whew, I've been very gabby but I wanted to get my thoughts about Ash Wednesday out before I forgot.

This is my first post ever so I hope I don't mangle it or come off sounding stupid! :(


:k to you all who have made for a wonderful thread!

I don't think anyone who has seen EW act will doubt he can pull off a dark role. From what I read way back when they previewed LOTR at Cannes a few years ago, and showed Frodo at that crucial moment on Mt. Doom with the ring, people were stunned by his portrayal. That might not exactly qualify as a villian, but it surely showed his range, as will these next two movies. I don't think his looks will be a deterrent, either--I find the most interesting bad guys are the good looking ones, because instinctively, as sad as it is, we want to like and trust attractive people.

What concerns me more than anything else as far as EW being able to land good roles is his slight stature. It wasn't an issue, obviously, when he was going after roles as a child, but it might be as he's trying to break through to more adult parts. As a person who is "height challenged" :D (I'm about 5'1" when I stretch) I can tell you that it's very difficult at times to be taken seriously--and I would imagine it's even tougher as a man. And in Hollywood, it is probably even more difficult.

He's not working on anything currently, is he? This would probably be a great time for him to take a few guest starring roles in television. There are a lot of potential darker parts in shows on the air right now--CSI and Law and Order, for example. I would love to see him do a few of these shows and get a chance to sink his teeth into something that would show he can handle roles like this. And it would also get him wider exposure to people who might not see him otherwise. As Wild Goose said, there is a certain stigma associated with fantasy films, so I'm sure a lot of people will have missed him in is best and most challenging role to date. And just think of what it would do for the ratings! :D

I agree with everyone who's said that the next two movies should improve the media's impression of EW's range. Particularly because PJ made Frodo come across as very young and innocent in FotR... the contrast between EW's pre-Quest Frodo and Frodo-at-Mt-Doom should be really astounding.

Is filming for Thumbsucker over yet? I would guess that, even if it is, EW is going to be a bit busy very soon promoting TTT. Hopefully the interviewers on the TV circuit will have a bit more of a clue this year than they did last year... (Letterman :rolleyes: )

Mel

Mel, it's great to see you around here and posting! I was afraid you were going to go hide under a rock until TTT came out.;)

Sadly, 'Thumbsucker' has NOT been filming and may never be made. The production company that was to do the film has split in two, and neither of the two splinter groups has picked it up. It's become one of the many movies sent into movie limbo.:(

There was word a couple of weeks back that Elwood was considering playing the role of Einstein in a film of Steve Martin's play about an imaginary meeting between Picasso and Einstein. Other than that, nada. Zip.

EJW seems pretty philosophical about his short stature. If he ever wants to 'bulk up' and add a bit of muscle, his height may become less of an issue. There are many young actresses who are very petite, so pairing up on screen with a leading lady shouldn't be a problem. And being short hasn't hurt Dustin Hoffman or (my favorite Elwood-potential-career-model) Johnny Depp.

There are very few actors who possess Elwood's natural screen presence. And that is something that distinguishes him from the other, and the taller, pretty faces in LaLaLand.:)

P.S. I hope New Line cuts back on the talk show promo appearances for the cast this time around. Most of those talk show hosts are clueless about LOTR and are mainly interested in being sarcastic wiseguys when dealing with young actors, while fawning over pretty women. Letterman was the absolute worst example last year, the way he drooled over Mariah Carey and hardly gave Lij the time of day. Lij should stick with classy people who already know him, like Jon Stewart of the Daily Show. IMHO, of course.:p

Welcome Squire's Lass. Glad you de-lurked and join us here. I think you'll fit right in!

It's funny how there is a Real reality and a Hollywood reality. In Real reality somebody living in Hell's Kitchen in the 80s could well be married with a child at the age of 21 (a number of people here have already confirmed that they know people like that) but in Hollywood reality this just isn't possible! Even if the film has other faults, I'm glad Ed Burns was wise enough to include some Real reality and brave enough to choose an actor with talent even if he doesn't conform to Hollywood reality.

Does any of that make sense?

One consolation is, the sooner it leaves the theatres, the sooner it'll be on video and the sooner we can ALL see it (well in theory anyway!)

Well maybe. Bumblebee never made it over here on Video so that doesn't always hold out. I wish I could see it on the big screen though.

He's not working on anything currently, is he? This would probably be a great time for him to take a few guest starring roles in television. There are a lot of potential darker parts in shows on the air right now--CSI and Law and Order, for example.

Again, chances are that we wouldn't get to see these over here. :sulks:

EW is going to be a bit busy very soon promoting TTT

I was thinking about that. Maybe this time I'll actually pay attention :) I remember seeing all four hobbit actors on tv last year but wasn't even interested enough to take note. Boy, do I regret that now! Again, I won't get to see any of the US chat-shows (though from what has been spoken about here, I don't think I'm missing anything) but hopefully he will make it over to here (or at least the UK) so I can see him on tv. And if I'm really lucky he will come to Ireland too. After all, it is his favourite place :)

Welcome, Squire's Lass! I didn't mean to ignore you in my last post. Thanks very, very much for your review of Ash Wednesday. I'm hoping it will be released somewhere around my home. Vita and I would drive miles and miles just to see it, right, peaceweaver? :D

squires_lass, Welcome to the Faculty Lounge. :) I'm glad you've joined us -- most of us can empathise with that feeling of loss and the frantic searching -- well, you're home now, amongst us gabby, insane, angst-appreciating, microexpression-analysing people. (still ain't too late for you to run screaming out the door :p ) That was an excellent first post. :k Thank you so very much.

Now, make yourself comfortable, what shall we call you, (how in the world did you resist posting for so long? ;) ) and are you and Alexan ready for the 'Ash Wednesday' Q&A? :cool:

Elve - thanks for that review. Please thank the reviewer for us too. :)



Shadow, I agree, he could use this time to guest star in a high-profile TV show or two - playing against type, which was what he did in 'Homicide'. He was good there. Real good. You absolutely detest him, and well, Eyrie said it - he's just chilling. Yet at the same time, you could see he is still a kid. The best thing about his portrayal: the little moments when he realises he's made a slip or two, and you see him thinking that maybe he's not getting away with it. Then a moment later he pulls himself together and he's confident again, and back to taunting the police. EW did that when he was 16. Imagine what he can do now.

Btw, Eyrie - don't forget you can watch NTSC videos. So there's no excuse to miss 'Bumblebee' and 'Ash Wed'. ;) If the latter is released on video. :o


Okay, I was watching Frodotised FoTR last night. The scene by the river bank, where he's crying and thinking of Gandalf -- he doesn't blink his eyes there. I noticed this a long time ago, and wondered how he does it: crying without blinking at all (and we haven't even begun analysing why his eyes don't go all red and puffy like us mere mortals). But frame-by-frame, I realised he does something that's almost like the half-blink, except it isn't. I can't even describe it as a fluttering of the eyelids, because well, it isn't. Anyone else has a take on this?


And does anyone have a frame-by-frame of Frodo blushing? ;)

And does anyone have a frame-by-frame of Frodo blushing? Okay, you're going to think I'm the most unobservant human alive, but... when does Frodo blush? And how the heck could I have missed it???

Screencaps, please! I'm dying, here! In other news, however, it looks like I may finally get my DVD player this weekend. Whoo-hoo! I look forward to many hours of frame-by-frame analysis of my own. Keep your fingers crossed for me!

Now in the excitement of the moment I've forgotten what else I was going to say... Oh, yeah! I finally saw a good-sized clip from the Japanese press conference that the stars of LOTR did when FOTR was released over there. There are long stretches of time where EW just sits there and waits while the interpreter is talking, and he does some of that half-blinking action, very slowly and languidly, but definitely not a full blink. Maybe it's just too much of an effort to completely blink those huge eyes of his...:rolleyes: Anyway, I thought it was interesting that it's apparently something he does regularly, and not just when acting.

Don't have time to proof-read this. Hope there's no glaring errors! Oh, and welcome to the newly de-lurked members! Glad you spoke up. The more, the merrier!:cool:

Originally posted by squires_lass11
....Lurked at that other site that shall not be named - followed your thread since January of this year after seeing LOTR in December.

Hail and well met, squires_lass!!!! And another heeds the siren's call of the Faculty thread! HE HE HE

I have gotten several emails from people who lurked on both this thread and the harem - MANY people who weren't even registered at that 'other' place did this. I don't know what the ratio of views to posts was for the Faculty, but someone did a calculation once of the views to posts ratio of the harem and it was something like 25 to 1 - I think these 'combination' threads are a HECK of a lot more popular among readers than anyone had previously imagined.

Kudos to Moggy for being foresighted enough to see a good thing when he had it dumped into his lap.

I also had the good fortune of being able to view the clips from the homicide episode and I must say, I LOVED it! EW was such a deliciously evil bad guy - you just wanted to pinch his scheming little head off! Considering the amount of air time he got during the episode, it is amazing that he could inspire such loathing in the viewer, but BOY did he do it! Two instances during that episode particularly stick out in my mind. Once is when he is at lunch, eating with chopsticks, and he has the most incredible confidence when he is talking with the police. They KNOW he is lying, but he is completely unfazed by their presence - you see him controlling his peers with nothing more than a glance - and he is in complete control of the cops as well. It was wonderful. The other instance is when he is in the interrogation room and the truth finally comes out... you can see SO clearly the instants when his confidence slips - when it looks like the gig is up - but even those appear to be almost affected for 'audience' (i.e. the two cops) since he knows they really can't do anything to him. Recall the look on his face when he looks up after being manhandled by the cops... it is the MOST chilling expression! It says, I got you... I made you lose your cool... I won. OOOO! Now THAT is acting!

Personally, I think EW could easily switch from hero roles to roles where he is the guy you 'love to hate' - but then, I think he could do pretty much anything he put his mind to!

Ariel

Welcome to all the new "de-lurkers" on this thread -I'm glad you are here, as one who also lurked for a while over at Imladris before having the courage to post.

A brief post as I am severely jet lagged and about to crawl into bed.


Just an observation: a good example of someone who confounds expectations and proves you can extend your acting range and act against type is Robin Williams. A perrenial funny man, and truly boxed as that type, he plays a psychotic killer in Insomnia, and uses exactly the same facial expressions and smiles but somehow, with micro-changes makes them soooo creepy.

Wonderful movie to watch, if only to see his performance.

So, maybe EW had the right idea -to do this early on, rather than wait for ages, like RW?

viola

Originally posted by Ariel
...you see him controlling his peers with nothing more than a glance...

IMO, that's how he does anything the best... ;)

As far as roles that will mess with our minds, I doubt if we'll have to look any further than TTT and RotK... Especially with PJ saying he's upping the psychological level of the Frodo-Gollum relationship. PJ may not end up showing the story the way I've always imagined it, but I'm eager to see what he does with it (and I'll always have the book to remind me of how I've always imagined it). I'm still wondering what in Middle-earth Frodo and Sam are doing in Osgiliath. Has anyone heard any more about that?

Hi to squire's_lass, and glad to see Shadow still out in the sunlight. Lots of de-lurking around here lately :) :) .

The front-desk secretary and I are both sneaking in a few moments online. A minute ago she got so excited about something it made me curious--the stock market :rolleyes: . How boring! I'd much rather be here :cool: .

Regarding Ash Wednesday--EE's remarks about "Real reality" vs. "Hollywood reality" are exactly right--I think the mentality even goes beyond Hollywood. I don't recall what it was in regard to, but I remember some media-type saying EW couldn't play a 21-year-old because he didn't look like one. How crazy! He is a 21-year-old! What does a 21-year-old look like? :confused: -- On the other side of things, a lot of recent pics have shown he is looking more mature lately; a lot of men are still coming into their "adult" looks at that age. Hopefully that will open up some things for him (as long as he can get through any RotK reshoots before he changes too much).

I'm sure there are other things I was going to respond to--I'll probably think of them later. (Oh, there was the comment about blushing--all I can think of is when the Ring's calling "Baggins" in the Prancing Pony, and IIRC someone said that was done with makeup. Are there any other times?)

This is going back a day or so, but I didn't make it here last night. Some screencaps from the mirror scene. Compared to other places in the movie, IMHO not many caps are needed to show Frodo's stance, expression, etc., during the time he's thought projecting to Galadriel and offering her the Ring. But I think that fact says as much as anything. He basically just doesn't move. He looks worried, anxious, maybe scared (a scene people might point to for the "deer in the headlights" look), but he absolutely stands his ground. Doesn't back up an inch or even move his hand once he's held it out. Very thought-provoking as far as what's going on in Frodo's mind right then. IMHO, it could be interpreted several different ways (how Tolkien-like ;) ).

I was in a big hurry to get these uploaded this morning before I left for work, so the upper and lower "letter box" strips are still there. The first pic is from the very beginning of that part of the scene, before he moves into the position he takes for the rest of it.

http://www.imagemagician.com/images/tgshaw/Fellowship/cap430.jpg

The next two are during his thought projection:

http://www.imagemagician.com/images/tgshaw/Fellowship/cap431.jpg

http://www.imagemagician.com/images/tgshaw/Fellowship/cap433.jpg

Then while he's offering her the Ring:

http://www.imagemagician.com/images/tgshaw/Fellowship/cap436.jpg

http://www.imagemagician.com/images/tgshaw/Fellowship/cap438.jpg

And the last two are still while he's holding out the Ring and Galadriel's approaching it. They show the only shift I can see during this whole time--his eyes moving up very slightly so he's looking more at her and less at the Ring:

http://www.imagemagician.com/images/tgshaw/Fellowship/cap438.jpg

http://www.imagemagician.com/images/tgshaw/Fellowship/cap465.jpg

BTW, I'm going to be taking down the screencaps of the sword coming out of Frodo's shoulder and his reaction when Gimli hits the Ring, from the "old thread." No motive involved other than that my free space at Image Magician is almost full. (You know, all that space that's supposed to plenty for a "normal" person. As if 22 frame-by-frame screencaps of someone's expression while he's being stabbed is abnormal somehow :rolleyes: .). I'll leave them up until at least this time tomorrow, in case anyone wants to download them before they disappear. I'm assuming they'll turn into little boxes with red x's.

Edit: Viola (hope you've had a good rest by the time you read this!) -- I've always enjoyed Robin Williams's serious roles more than his comedic ones: The Fisher King; Dead Poets Socieity; Good Morning, Vietnam; Good Will Hunting; not sure how to classify The World According to Garp!

Wow! So much wonderful commentary and some new Faculty Members, too!
Welcome, Squires Lass, and Shadow and any other de-lurkers. And I was afraid we would *lose* people by having to move! Have all our colleagues from the earlier boards found us here?

It is nice to hear from Elwood-centric reviewers what they thought of Ash Wednesday. Thanks, SquiresLass and Alexan! And the review that Elve posted was very thorough and thoughtful, too. I'm disappointed that the professional notices aren't more positive, but what can you do? I *would* drive across town to see the film, anytime it's a possibility. Right you are, Goldie! :)

You know, an actor can only do what the script and director let him do. While one might wonder what let EW to choose to do this role, the writer/director/star shaped the cast and the project to his vision. IIRC, in the Brazilian interview last year, EW said his goal as an actor was to be good enough that any director he wanted to work with, would want to work with him. I think this role may have been a part of that career plan.

I thought he did an excellent job in the Homicide episode, too. Very creepy little twerp he played in that one. But I may be in the minority in not wanting him to do a lot of TV. There is such a paucity of decent writing on the small screen that I don't think it would do him much good.

Nonetheless, I caught Elwood on the Osbournes the other day, which I had not seen. What a riot!

tg, those caps take my breath away! Who can think with those images on the screen?

Squires Lass orignally posted:
Lurked at that other site that shall not be named - followed your thread since January of this year after seeing LOTR in December. I was most dismayed to find that site temporarily inaccessible some weeks ago. I searched, (frantically might be a good description) all the LOTR and EW sites hoping to find you all somewhere. I've enjoyed your intelligent, bawdy, funny, sometimes silly thoughts and was tempted a few times to join in but must say I chickened out.

Hi Squires Lass! I did the same thing, right down to the frantic search, and finally delurked pretty much out of a sense of profound relief that The Faculty still existed. Like you, I had never really intended to come out of the shadows (hence the name) :) but I'm glad now that I did. You won't find a greater group anywhere.


Vita originally posted:
I thought he did an excellent job in the Homicide episode, too. Very creepy little twerp he played in that one. But I may be in the minority in not wanting him to do a lot of TV. There is such a paucity of decent writing on the small screen that I don't think it would do him much good.

I wouldn't want to see him do a lot of TV either--just one or two well placed, well written roles that would give him some exposure. There are some well written shows on the small screen that I think could provide a good venue for him to stretch a little. And even if it didn't do him much good, it would do a lot for me to be able to see him in something new. :D I, too, would love to see the Homicide episode. Anyone know if they are currently re-running that series anywhere?


Goldenberry originally posted:
And being short hasn't hurt Dustin Hoffman or (my favorite Elwood-potential-career-model) Johnny Depp.

Thanks, Goldenberry. I was trying to think of other short actors, and could only come up with Michael J. Fox. Though he did mostly comedies, he did a few more serious roles and I always thought he was under-rated as an actor, but it seemed like he didn't get many chances to do much else. For all I know, though, he didn't want anything darker, so that might not be a good comparison. But Dustin Hoffman and Johnny Depp--those two have definitely had great careers and the opportunity to play a variety of roles. That makes me feel a little better! (Johnny Depp is another favorite of mine as well.)

Welcome, Squires_Lass! Great that you finally decided to delurk, and thank you for the AW information. I really envy all of you who have had the opportunity to see the film.


WildGoose, did I ever tell you I enjoy your post headings every time; - they're inventive and imaginative but to the point!


Re: EW in a bad guy role; I am a little torn about that. Of course, I'd sure love it if he could get the opportunity to stretch his acting muscles, and I'm sure he'd deliver a scary, chilling role, too, if he ever got the chance. But there are *some* bad guy roles I'd rather not have him do because the total film content borders on speculative or overly and unnecessarily violent IMO. But I know I am *much* more touchy on that subject than many others, I'm definitely in the minority. Pulp Fiction, for instance. Urgh.

Any examples of a well-known bad guy role in a book or even in a prior film that you'd all like to see him try out? Any Stephen King roles, for instance? I'm curious. I'll try to think up what I'd like to see him do in that category myself. But not just now- good night, everyone!


Edit: Elve, thank you for that good and thorough AW review on your site too.

I shall have to take notes as I read this page, there are so many things and posts I'd like to comment on.....

Thank you all for interesting posts!!!

Hello
Welcome de-lukers, deluby, Alexan, Squire's_lass11, Hewene. Nice to see you again Wild Goose and Eagle's Eyrie.

Originally posted by Ariel

I also had the good fortune of being able to view the clips from the homicide episode and I must say, I LOVED it! EW was such a deliciously evil bad guy - you just wanted to pinch his scheming little head off! Considering the amount of air time he got during the episode, it is amazing that he could inspire such loathing in the viewer, but BOY did he do it! ... Recall the look on his face when he looks up after being manhandled by the cops... it is the MOST chilling expression! It says, I got you... I made you lose your cool... I won. OOOO! Now THAT is acting!

Personally, I think EW could easily switch from hero roles to roles where he is the guy you 'love to hate' - but then, I think he could do pretty much anything he put his mind to!

Ariel

Ariel, I would love to see this. Don't know if it's aired in the UK yet. We recently had satellite TV installed, and 'Homicide' is on about 4 nights a week. I keep hitting the information button to check for details on the evening's episode, but no luck so far.:mad: I have managed to tape a few of EW's films courtesy of the satellite dish, though - Avalon, Radio Flyer, North, Deep Impact, so it has come in useful!:)

I agree with you, Ariel, about EW being capable of handling any role. I think it was Goldenberry who mentioned his screen presence earlier. This is so true - he draws you, somehow, and it's difficult to drag your attention away from him. The amazing thing for me about EW's performances is that he is never 'Elijah Wood', if you know what I mean. Some actors just seem to be themselves whatever part they play, whereas Elijah 'disappears' into the character. You only have to compare Stu (The War) - Casey (The Faculty) - Barney (Bumblebee) Mikey (The Ice Storm - I have seen it, at last!) and Frodo Baggins to appreciate the range and depth of his extraordinay talent. I look forward with eager anticipation to EW's portrayal and development of Frodo in TTT and ROTK. I am certain he will continue to astound and delight us all!!!

Maeglian - thanks for asking after our dog. She had a nasty infection, but her temperature is now back to normal, and she has perked up a lot. We have to take her back to the vet tomorrow for a check-up, and hopefully that will be it. Fingers crossed.

Thanks all for the Ash Wednesday reviews and news. I wonder if we will ever see it over here.

Tg - great screencaps. I have registered with Imagemagician, but am having trouble uploading my pics. I think they may be too big, as they are BMP images I did on PowerDVD. I'm still working on it. One day soon...??? :rolleyes:

I'm going to make a hasty retreat now as this is the third time I have typed this post - my connection keeps cutting off tonight, so I regret to say - this is the end. Goodbye!:)
Back soon.

Originally posted by Maeglian
Re: EW in a bad guy role; I am a little torn about that. Of course, I'd sure love it if he could get the opportunity to stretch his acting muscles, and I'm sure he'd deliver a scary, chilling role, too, if he ever got the chance. But there are *some* bad guy roles I'd rather not have him do because the total film content borders on speculative or overly and unnecessarily violent IMO. But I know I am *much* more touchy on that subject than many others, I'm definitely in the minority. Pulp Fiction, for instance. Urgh.

Any examples of a well-known bad guy role in a book or even in a prior film that you'd all like to see him try out? Any Stephen King roles, for instance? I'm curious. I'll try to think up what I'd like to see him do in that category myself. But not just now- good night, everyone!

I don't handle heavy violence well, either. I went to one of the Lethal Weapon movies with a friend--she loved it; I had nightmares for three nights! So much as I love Elwood's acting, if he was in something really violent I probably wouldn't see it, at least not until it came out on DVD so I could choose what scenes I'd watch. From what I've heard/read about Chain of Fools and Ash Wednesday, they don't seem to be like Pulp Fiction (I hope!).

But IMHO those wouldn't be the best roles for him, anyway. The bad guy he played in Homicide was a great one for him because it used his strengths--subtlety and nuance, for want of better words. The kind of part where, as Ariel said, he controls people with a glance--rather than mowing them down with an Uzi.

I can't think of a particular part right off the top of my head, but can think of some "types"-- psychological thrillers maybe, or Alfred Hitchcock type movies where you don't know who the bad guys and good guys are until it's almost too late. Claude Raines, my other favorite not-too-tall actor along with EW and Dustin Hoffman, pulled off some good angsty parts like The Phantom of the Opera and The Invisible Man (both of whom come to their role as a "bad guy" through growing insanity--now something like that could be an interesting use of Elijah's talents). Hmmm... I'll have to think about that.

--------------------

Blossom--In another case of the blind leading the blind (but I'm just repeating what I learned from this group :) ), you probably want to change the bitmaps into jpegs or gifs before you try to upload them. I've learned through trial and error how to do that with the software I have, but someone less technically challenged would have to help you out on how to do it in on your own system and software.

OMG! This thread is now moving as fast as the Harem! How is that possible, with all the lengthy, thought-provoking posts in the Faculty! Oh, I know - WELCOME! to the new Faculty members, who have finally decided to de-lurk! You don't know how exciting that is for those of us who have gabbed each other blue in the face for all these wonderful past months!

Squires_Lass, deluby, Alexan (wait! Weren't you at CofE under a diff name?), Louise (new, right?), Shadow, BLOSSOM (if I missed your welcome before now-I'm sorry!) Hewene (who I met by e-mail during the upheaval!) - you are all so welcome here!

And if I missed any new Faculty members, please forgive me- but post again, for heaven's sake, so we can get to know you better! You have all been a great read!

As to tgshaw's post, so many posts ago now--she's right about the Lorien timeline, of course. Legolas simply took off his over-tunic to clean up. But then, Elves simply "sluff off" grime, as witness the glorious blond tresses which never get greasy and unkempt (unlike a certain sexy Numenorean). I don't really understand why PJ may no effort whatsoever to show the passage of time in the Golden Wood. Maybe I'll understand better or forgive more once I've seen the extended DVD version.

All you guys with your frame by frame analysis of Elijah's blinking/half-blinking behavior don't fool me for an instant. It wouldn't be nearly so interesting if it weren't for those EYES!

And last, posted by tgshaw:
But IMHO those wouldn't be the best roles for him, anyway. The bad guy he played in Homicide was a great one for him because it used his strengths--subtlety and nuance, for want of better words. The kind of part where, as Ariel said, he controls people with a glance--rather than mowing them down with an Uzi.

Excellent observation, tg! And so obviously true! Lij plays a great little controller with his subtle expressions. That's where the real fun is, in watching those. It doesn't take much skill to be a guy who fills the screen with action and bullets. We want to see more of Elijah's skills!! Otherwise, this would be a thread dedicated to Sylvester Stallone! :p

p.s. deluby- It's not scary when lurkers read this thread, even when we let it all hang out here, because....if you weren't the same type of Lij-luver we are, you would never have put up with our long, ranting posts. I'm sure lots of people have peeked in, gone eek! :eek: and run away never to return!

Originally posted by BunnieBugs
...like the odd romantic comedy. I don't think that's exactly what Try Seventeen is, but I'd love to see him try it.
So would I. I have the funny feeling Try 17 is going to turn into a teen flick with too much sex in it. And as we all know that much sex isn't needed to make a film good.
But a nice, cute romantic comedy would be nice.

Originally posted by Eagles' Eyrie:
And if I understand correctly, in Ash Wednesday, Sean isn't a bad guy as such. He's not "messed up in the head" as such. He's just an ordinary Irish-American living in Hell's Kitchen with a wife and child who takes the oportunity to protect his brother when he has the chance. Can those who've seen the movie confirm this?
Yeah he really wasn't a psycho, just desperate, really.

Originally posted by squires_lass11:
There were some moments that I think did not go off well. #1 being the wedding photo in which I think he looked a little silly and #2 near the end of the film when he's reunited with his wife - one of his lines was something like, "Oh baby I've missed you". Mmm, maybe it's because he's never spoken lines like that before. (Oh, of course, if he was using them on me that'd be a different story!) :D
Oh thank god, some else who has seen it and I can to about it (no offence to every one else)! I actually notcied the picture before the camra closed in on it. He did look kinda silly (no offence Lij!). And two, I don't like to admit this but I had a big smile on my face and was blushng during that scene. It was a nice one and he (to me at least) did a good job. I'm sure you would feel differently if he said it to you or I would of myself. :D :blushes:
(Welcome BTW :))

Originally posted by Shadow:
He's not working on anything currently, is he? This would probably be a great time for him to take a few guest starring roles in television. There are a lot of potential darker parts in shows on the air right now--CSI.....
OMG I love that show! It would be cool if he were on it. Of course you know what would be better then that...if he were on Alias...THE BEST FREAKIN' SHOW EVER! Also that new Twilight Zone is pretty good too, I could probably see him on those shows.

Originally posted by Goldenberry:
...Lij should stick with classy people who already know him, like Jon Stewart of the Daily Show. IMHO, of course.:p
Well that would be nice except I don't have cable and depend on shows like that to see my favorite people like Elijah talk about what ever. Oh wait, I can watch the Charlie Rose show, he did a pretty good job with PJ when he was on. Mabye him.


When I asked that question before I also some what ment not just the disturbing and sick but roles that would just kinda bother you a little if he played them. Like gay or mentally disabled. Or some thing like that. (no offence ment to any one). Though those I guess are not very likely...I suppose. But do you think I'm beng shallow when I say/think that?

Question for those here who have seen that Homicide episode he was on:
I was wondering, he kills another kid in this right? Well how dose he do it? I know that sounds like a weird question but I'm like a devote Edgar Allen Poe fan and I read on a site dedicated to him once that on an episode of Homicide:Life on the Streets a kid (teenager?) kills another kid by sticking him behind a wall...or walling them up inside a house(appartment?) after killing them? Kinda like one of his stories, The Black Cat. Just wondering.

Kinda OT, but I got that new Coldplay CD a few days ago (Elijah went to one of their concerts) and it is very good. I can see that our little Lij had good taste in music. :) I keep listening to that one song, Green Eyes, except I replace "green" with "blue" in my head when singing along to it/listening to it (I think we all know what I'm referencing to :) )

–Alexan

Originally posted by Alexan
When I asked that question before I also some what ment not just the disturbing and sick but roles that would just kinda bother you a little if he played them. Like gay or mentally disabled. Or some thing like that. (no offence ment to any one). Though those I guess are not very likely...I suppose. But do you think I'm beng shallow when I say/think that?

I'm not prepared to say whether you're being shallow or not. Different things are going to bother different people, and anything outside of what is considered by the majority to be "normal" is going to be disturbing to a large portion of them.

But can't a character be interesting, disturbing and enjoyable all at the same time? I'm sure there have been roles that fit that description, and I'll bet EJW could pull it off admirably.

As far as how likely it is to happen, did you know that he had actually signed on to a picture entitled "Mort the Dead Teenager," in which he was to portray a closeted gay teen? (Like Thumbsucker, it looks as though this film will never be produced). So, it may be more likely than one might think. If he could take some unconventional film roles now and then, I, for one, would applaud him and enjoy every second of it!

I was wondering, he kills another kid in this right? Well how dose he do it?
Well, he doesn't actually kill the kid himself. He gets one of his "underlings" to do it for him, because they're too afraid of him not to do it. :eek: As to the method, I believe the kid was stabbed, but am not 100% positive. Elijah is kind of like the "mob boss" of the exclusive private school they all attend -- all the other boys kiss his ring and do what he tells them, or else.

I'm with you, tgsjaw--I couldn't sit through Pulp Fiction a second time, either. I know everyone raved about that movie, but it was too much in-your-face violence for me. I would not want to see EW in a movie like that. Ditto for a Silence of the Lambs type of thriller. My 16 year old daughter loved that movie--she thought Hannible Lechter was a great villian--but I guess I'm squemish, because I couldn't watch that one more than once, either, and not even the lure of the TTT trailer could get me into the theater to see the newest one. I would probably force myself to watch something like that if EW was in it, but I wouldn't enjoy it much.

I would have no problem with seeing him portray a mentally unstable character. I think he would excel at playing someone who has gone through a personal trauma and just loses it--kind of what happens to him at the end of LOTR, but with more of an edge to him. Something that comes to mind would be a period piece of a returning Viet Nam vet or something along those lines, though I know that has been done in a number of movies already. But his youthful looks wouldn't be a detriment in a storyline like that--there were a lot of 19 and 20 year olds coming home from that war pretty messed up. I think he would do a wonderful job with a character like that.

There are a lot of great writers on this thread--we should write something for him. :D

(still ain't too late for you to run screaming out the door :p )

but I like it here :) Thank you for all the warm welcomes!

I, too, am hoping that Elijah will have many opportunities to show off his acting skills in different kinds of roles. An occasional tv appearance here and there would be perfect in a well scripted show and would not tie up his time while he is committed to LOTR through 2003. I keep thinking about all the films that have been released with other young actors that he would have been perfect for, I'm sure his commitment to LOTR kept him from being elligible for a bunch of films - Tuck Everlasting and Igby Goes Down come to mind.

After seeing LOTR in December for the first time (8 total viewings) I searched the internet hungrily for anything on LOTR and its actors. I admit I was initially smitten with Orlando but upon reading the various posts about Elijah and Frodo, I returned for my second and subsequent viewings focusing on his performance and was hooked. Like many of you have mentioned here, I, too, went to the video stores and rented every film I could find with EW in it. This was an actor who prior to LOTR I heard of by name only as a gifted child actor. I would not have been able to put a face to the name. I knew nothing abut him as a person but watching all the angsty roles he played as a child, he so convinced me that in real life he was a quiet, introspective, solemn young man. Now that I have seen him on talk shows and have read interviews, I am very impressed - all that energy of his which he had to contain for his performances!

I don't have any bad guy role in mind for Elijah but I think if they ever decide to do a film biography of silent star Buster Keaton, Elijah could fit the bill (as Buster in his early days). Both dimunitive in size and Buster Keaton was a very beautiful man when he was young (before the bottle and age got to him) with a kind of sad face. Did all his own stunts, too - Pre-Jackie Chan -and we all know how lithe Elijah is. :D

Originally posted by BunnieBugs
As far as how likely it is to happen, did you know that he had actually signed on to a picture entitled "Mort the Dead Teenager," in which he was to portray a closeted gay teen?

Whoa, whoa, wait a second. I have one of the issuses of that comic and there's nothing like that in there that I could see. And when reading about it at the movie news sites I never heard any script changes that envolve some thing like that....

Btw, Eyrie - don't forget you can watch NTSC videos. So there's no excuse to miss 'Bumblebee' and 'Ash Wed'. If the latter is released on video.

Unfortunately not. I know that my video recorder doesn't play NTSC. I do hope to get a new one soon which will play both versions. But I also need to get a DVD player too, so having to buy both will put some pressure on the pockets. Lucky I have my laptop (courtesy of work) or else I'd be driven demented not being able to watch my LotR DVD at all :)

Re Bad guy rolls: I don't think anybody really wants him to do a gun-toting maniac here, but if he can get a "good" bad guy roll - a roll with intellegence then I think it could be interesting to see. I wasn't that keen on Pulp Fiction (though I did like the even more violent Resevoir Dogs!) or Silence Of The Lambs, but there's plenty of bad-guy rolls that would suit. TG mentioned Hitchcock. I think something along those lines would be perfect. Though please no more Hitchcock remakes!!!! Viggo was already in TWO of them!!

Re: EJW's height: I agree that being short(ish) never did Dustin Hoffman or Johnny Depp any harm (actually never knew JD was small!), but unfortunately they don't have the baby face that EJW does. In that sense Michael J Fox probably would be the best example of somebody both small and baby faced. Plus both of them have the child-actor backgrounds (MJF was a bit older when he started admittedly). I hope that won't effect EJW's career, but I can't think of any other male child star who has gone on to huge things after they grew up (girls seem to have things a big easier - Jodie Foster as an example). But I think if anybody can be a pioneer in this field it can be our Elijah!

HOMICIDE DETAILED SPOILERS:

Louise - you're right. The kid was stabbed. The cops speculate that perhaps EW never wanted the kid to be murdered, that perhaps EW had just wanted the kid to be roughed up a bit - except the boy EW got to do the job got carried away. The boy actually turns himself in for the murder. The cop talks about being in awe of EW - not only did EW talk the boy into committing a crime, EW was also able to influence the boy into confessing without implicating him.

The expressions on EW's face while the cop is saying all these things is worth the download time, for any of those who haven't gotten the clips from Elve yet.


*********END SPOILERS


Hey, I have a soft spot for any actor who does a good job playing a baddie. :) EW as a baddie would send me over the moon. :D

There was a movie based on a Stephen King novella: Apt Pupil, that featured a teenager who flirts with the idea of finding out what Evil is all about, and eventually slips over the edge himself. King's story was very dark and very disturbing. The movie wasn't as dark and lost focus somewhat towards the end. EW would have been just the right age to play that kid at the time, and he would have co-starred with Ian McKellen. It's my unfounded belief :p that EW did try out for that role, and that this is the role he talked about in that AICN interview, about casting people not being willing to give him the chance to play darker roles.

I know every Stephen King story out there and I could think of any number of characters, but now I've got 'em all jumbled up in my head. Will have to come back to this later. Stephen King is one of the biggest Tolkien geeks out there, btw. ;) He references LOTR and the hobbits just about every chance he gets. I love that guy. :cool:

Bunnie, he blushes, as tg says, during the 'Baggins' temptation moment in the Prancing Pony. So we reopen the speculation for delurkers. Does he blush at will? Is it all make-up? Or is it post-production colour thingy?:

http://www.classicxf.com/images/FOTR/bree_to_bruinen/retouched/025bree.jpg
http://www.classicxf.com/images/FOTR/bree_to_bruinen/retouched/028bree.jpg
http://www.classicxf.com/images/FOTR/bree_to_bruinen/retouched/032bree.jpg

Nicked the screencaps from Penny's site. And oh fine, so Carly's right. Any excuse to put more of him in here. ;)

And lovely screencaps, tg. I never have anything smart to say anyway, but all I'm thinking now is that whoever's standing in for Cate Blanchett has a very long head. :p


Now, our very own deluby posted some sound files over in the Playground for all to listen to Billy Boyd's voice. Billy's voice and that sweet, lilting accent .... Ehem. Back on-topic - the last sound file has our Elijah. Go listen. ;) Thanks for posting those, deluby. :k


edit

SPOILER EXTENDED VERSION

TORN's Xoanon's Q&A:

Q: Xoanon, you are a DOLL. :) Always, always my idol! That said. . .please, what about the scene at the stone trolls? Your script review from 9/12 mentioned that there was something added there. . .what was this scene like on-screen Saturday? :) Thanks, Frodo :)

A: Yes, they added something extremely quick, Sam mentioning that they are lying near the stone trolls. In a sort of way you would try to distract someone who is in pain.

-----------

Oh yes, I am very, very happy. In that very, very sick, happy way. :D

End SPOILER

ainon, I don't know how much help our boy had with the blushing, but I do know that second picture (with the flushed cheeks and eyelashes) belongs on my bedroom wall!

That's the stuff of good dreams, eh?

I do hope someone starts offering Lij some really choice parts in really interesting films soon. Altho, I don't know how tied down he is to possible NZ trips for add-ons until RotK is finished. If that's the case, then I'm all for some TV appearances- with the possible exception of some of the sillier comedies. If they could come up with an interesting part on West Wing (are there any non-interesting roles on West Wing?) then my two great loves would be combined. There he would be well-written and taken seriously. I mean, look what it did for Rob Lowe! He has a great role, and is doing a great job with it, and all is forgiven for whatever nonsence there was (or people thought there was) in his past. And Elijah has nothing in his past to overcome, IMO. Except, of course, to those small-minded Hollywood egotists that may think anyone in a fantasy film is small potatoes.

Other than that, I haven't had time to think carefully of what shows I would love to see him pop up in. Certainly I agree with the CSI's and Law & Order. That stuff is all very well done, and well-respected. And I want Lij to be well-respected, as should be.

Well, I'm thinking by the end of the 3rd Movie, he will be! I have no doubts whatsoever about him carrying it off to suit everyone!
It will be interesting to see how Sean Astin does, too. His role will certainly become more and more demanding. Personally, I think the only thing that could make TTT and RotK less than world-class outstanding would be cheesy CGI. There are already some minor complaints about the CGI in FotR. (the Gordon episode, which I love, the Wizards break-dancing, which I liked but would have done differently, and Nuclear Galadrial, which I would have rather seen Cate handle more of herself, come to mind) But I know PJ is doing the best he can, and working very hard at keeping it high-class, so that's all we can hope for. I do want to see Frodo do his own over-the-top acting, tho. I'm a little concerned that he may have too much help, ala Nuclear Galadrial. Let's hope not!

Oh, and BTW, I would have had Bilbo handle his own Orc-moment in Rivendell with Fro, too. But based on the audience reaction to it (and I lost count of how many times I saw it in the theatres) I would have to say that PJ's version works for them! Someone jumps right out of their skin every time! Cracks me up. :D

*edit* God, it feels good to be able to incorporate all those rambling topics together into one Elijah-centric post! I love being in KD!

Speaking of those "small-minded Hollywood egotists" that Carly so aptly labeled: The latest Entertainment Weekly has its 'Power List' rankings. Vin Diesel is on it. Vin Diesel.

Elijah, of course, is not. But PJ is.

I don't know why I continue to read that stuff. These 'Hollywood Power/Popularity' things always just make me sputter over the silliness, shallowness and injustice of it all. It's a form of masochism, reading this garbage.:rolleyes:

Loved the media comment about Elwood "not looking 21" when he was 21. It reminds me of one of my favorite quotes from Gloria Steinem, on her 40th birthday. When told she didn't "look" 40, her response was: "This is what 40 looks like. We've been lying (about our ages) so long, who would know?"

Welcome to the delurkers, deluby and squires_lass11 and anyone else I've missed. :) The conversation has been fascinating.

Originally posted by carleenya

It's not scary when lurkers read this thread, even when we let it all hang out here, because....if you weren't the same type of Lij-luver we are, you would never have put up with our long, ranting posts. I'm sure lots of people have peeked in, gone eek! and run away never to return!

Yep, what Carly said. :D Anyone who'll stick with this thread must share a lot of our interests and tolerances. ;)

Originally posted by tgshaw
But IMHO those wouldn't be the best roles for him, anyway. The bad guy he played in Homicide was a great one for him because it used his strengths--subtlety and nuance, for want of better words. The kind of part where, as Ariel said, he controls people with a glance--rather than mowing them down with an Uzi.


This passage makes me ache to see EW play this character from a Georgette Heyer novel - a secondary character, alas. It's set during Regency England, sort of a romantic mystery suspense kind of thing, and this character is viewed as the bad guy through most of the novel. He does some pretty bad things - kills a friend neatly and without a qualm, for one :eek: - but at the same time he is soooo smooth and he has his own wierd morality to him, and he's got even his own dad (a high government official) dancing to his tune - the only one who manages to outwit him is the hero, and even the hero decides at the end that this guy is the only one who can solve their main problem, and hands the evidence over to him to dispose of...

Most of the characters think this guy is slight and pathetic and effeminate - it's a sign of intelligence to see through and realize how dangerous he is. Both the hero and heroine are wary of him and recognize his power from the git go. Yet even as aquaintances think of him as a bit of a fop, he's pulling strings and running things, even influencing what's going on in the government. :p I'd love to see EW in a role like that.

And I'll join the crew that would prefer he not be in something where the violence and gore is over the top. Then again, once my mom got the LOTR video tape, her only review for some weeks was, "Wow, is that violent." :p Personally, I don't like gore when it gets to the point that I'm distracted figuring out "how they did that" - which I never did my first time through LOTR. Actually, haven't really been sweating that much since.

squires_lass, I know what Buster Keaton looked like, and I think EW could play him - but was Keaton's story angsty enough? :D And ainon, your Extended DVD spoiler sounds verrrrry nice. ;)

Goldie,
Who's Vin Diesel?

Love the Steinem quote. Hollywood does have these cliched ideas about what looks "real", and while some of the ones regarding dead bodies may be understandable, the ones about what living people should look like are major annoying. Camryn Manheim had some interesting things to say about that in her book, "Wake Up, I'm Fat!" from a female perspective - how fat ladies never get to be romantic and things.

Isn't just Hollywood, though - I've heard that romances with light-haired heroes on the cover don't sell as well. Tall dark and handsome is a romance cliche for a reason, I guess. :rolleyes:

I agree with whoever it was who said it wasn't just EW's height that may end up limiting him. A lot of actors aren't that tall. My brother and his friend went to try out as extras for one of the Die Hard movies, the guy signing them up took one look at my brother and shook his head. "No chance, buddy." Apparently Bruce Willis isn't all that tall, so the extras couldn't be over five ten or so (my brother's 6'2"). :p And EW is not the only star I've seen who had to stand on a box to kiss the leading lady face to face. :D

I hope that as his face fills out he'll be able to take on more adult roles. And I totally agree that the guys condemning his character on Ash Wednesday for looking too young were right out. I like Shadow's idea of him playing someone suffering from PTSD or something - although we may get a glimpse of that at the end of LOTR. A lot of people analyzes Frodo's problems after he gets back as some form of PTSD, complicated by physical injuries.

Sheryl

Originally posted by ainon
...but all I'm thinking now is that whoever's standing in for Cate Blanchett has a very long head. :p

Well, ever since Ariel mentioned that the program I use to make screencaps stretches the picture vertically, I've been noticing it every time! Maybe that's why her head looks so long (Galadriel's, not Ariel's :p ).

I'd say that with Mikey in IS, Elijah's already played someone a little off center. He certainly lives in his own world.

---------AAAaaahhhhh----------Just as I'm typing this it came to me!!! Flowers for Algernon!!! Wouldn't he be incredible? Anyone got a spare million lying around to start up production?

Whew.... Anyway, I was going to say something a little calmer about Elijah playing a mentally challenged or developmentally disabled character. It made me think of how much I admired Scott Bakula's depiction of a young man with Down syndrome in two episodes of Quantum Leap (including the final one). Of course, on that show they didn't have to worry about physical appearance, but there are many disorders that aren't visible. An autistic character who's around EJW's chronological age could be a great role for him--because it's a disorder that focuses the person so interiorly and IMHO that would really utilize the strongest aspects of his acting.

Flowers for Algernon/Charlie got me thinking of the Jack Nicholson role in One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest--dark, kind of a bad guy (he's trying to beat the system and the system ends up beating him).

Shilohmm originally posted:
This passage makes me ache to see EW play this character from a Georgette Heyer novel - a secondary character, alas. It's set during Regency England, sort of a romantic mystery suspense kind of thing, and this character is viewed as the bad guy through most of the novel.

That sounds intriguing--what's the name of the book? It does sound like an interesting character, but it also sounds like one who is intrinsically evil, and I don't know why, but I don't know if I want to see EW in a role like that. I guess I'm just soft-hearted when it comes to him ;), but I don't know if I would enjoy watching him play a character that is simply bad, with no redeeming characteristics whatsoever. Note that I didn't say I wouldn't watch him :D. And that sounds like exactly the kind of character he played in the Homicide episode, which I haven't seen yet, so maybe I just need to see him in something like that to make me change my mind. I still do like the idea of a mentally or emotionally disturbed character, though.

I thought of One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest too, tgshaw. Jack Nicholson wasn't really bad, more of a rebel trying to change a system he saw as wrong. There's another good one--a Rebel Without a Cause type character, who is percieved as being no good, but is really trying to do the right thing. He would be great in a role like that.

There are a few movies I can't watch anymore without inserting EW into one of the roles. Wonder Boys, with Michael Douglas, is one of them. EW would have been perfect in the role played by Tobey McGuire. In fact, everytime I see that movie I see EW there now instead of TM. Tobey was good, but of course, EW would have been better. :) Another one is the character played by Hayden Christensen in Life as a House. It would be really interesting to see EW punked up like that, with the spiked hair and all the piercings and the tough-guy attitude, as HC was in the beginning of that movie. Lots of angst there, too. Now that I think of it, there are a lot of good roles for young actors out there--EW just needs to be considered for them. Hopefully, after he struts his stuff in TTT and ROTK, he will be.

From ainon
I know every Stephen King story out there and I could think of any number of characters, but now I've got 'em all jumbled up in my head. Will have to come back to this later. I'll be waiting for you to come back on that. You didn't think it was pure coincidence that I mentioned King, now did you? I know how much you like his books, so I figured I'd get to know something more about them *and* learn of relevant "evil" or scary roles for EW. 2 birds with one stone! :D


Alexan and others, about Mort the Dead Teenager: Last we heard, the storyline involved this Mort coming back to haunt his girlfriend, didn't it? Not that he couldn't be a closeted gay anyway of course. I doubt very much that EW will ever do that film anyway, he's starting to look too old for a high school kid, even considering the way Hollywood thinks high school kids look. Or maybe not?? Come to think of it, I guess a lot of actors older than EJW have played high-school teens.


Tg, I love your changing avatars. :) (You can probably guess I'm envious too?)


About the blushing in the Prancing Pony: No way that isn't makeup. (Just IMHO, of course). But would you look at the *eyes* in that *last* pic? (Well, of course you would! :D ) How is it possible for anyone to have eyes like that? Just like a beautiful anime character.........


I'm looking so much forward to the Extended DVD. Every little spoiler just makes me look forward to it all the more. :)

Vin Diesel (not his real name, he made it up) is that large, gravel-voiced, muscle-y, bald tattoo'ed guy in 'The Fast and the Furious', 'XXX', and now 'Knockaround Guys'. He has an ego as large as his biceps, and has already predicted his own meteoric rise to stardom. My 15-year-old niece thinks he's really hot. THIS is what Hollywood is going after! Aaaarrrggghhh.

I did like him in 'Pitch Black' where he played a chilling villain role. Haven't seen any of his more recent pictures because they're made for the Gen-X and Y audiences and they're very violent. Also because it makes me spitting mad that 'actors' such as that get on 'Power lists' while outstanding actors do not.

Georgette Heyer: I love her! I have most of her romance novels somewhere around the house, but didn't really get into her mysteries. What book and character did you have in mind, Sheryl?

Shadow, I do the same thing: imagining Elijah in roles played by other actors. Lately I've started looking more closely at new, young actors in TV shows and movies, trying to spot that special something I see in Lij. Mostly I do this because it's a slow time for EJW news and no new EJW films to watch.;)

Originally posted by Goldenberry
Shadow, I do the same thing: imagining Elijah in roles played by other actors. Lately I've started looking more closely at new, young actors in TV shows and movies, trying to spot that special something I see in Lij. Mostly I do this because it's a slow time for EJW news and no new EJW films to watch.;)

Not finding much of it, either, are you, Goldenberry? That special something we see in Lij, I mean. There are a lot of neat young actors, in one way or another, but face it-Elijah stands out.

Preaching to the choir, I am.

I am getting very antsy waiting for him to do something that I can see him in! We can only dissect LoTR for so long - good thing that extended edition is about out, it is!!

When I become Yoda, it is time for me to take a break and clean something. See you guys later!

Re: Mort the Dead Teenager -- I'm pretty sure that EJW's character was a secondary one. I'm just recalling what I've read about it, and it's been awhile, but I'm relatively sure that it was not the lead. It looks to be a dead project, anyway.

About the Bree scene: Those stills do make it look like make-up, and I suspect it is. I always noticed how he looked flushed in this scene, and between the color in his cheeks and the sweat, I just assumed he was too warm... Interesting to think that there may have been something more psychological going on, due to the Ring calling to him, and images that it may have projected into his mind. :cool:

And who was it... Carleenya? ...who mentioned putting that center one on her wall? Let's just say that the instant they appeared on my screen, I right-click/saved each and every one. Heh. :D

I've always liked how rosy he looks after the four hobbits tumble down the hill, right be for he says, "I think we should get off the road." That could very well be a natural flush, in that scene. What do you think? http://www.classicxf.com/images/FOTR/shire/075ajourney.jpg

I'm still kinda stuck on that half-blinking thing, and I got to wondering about how often it might have turned up in his acting. Does anyone have the DVD of The Faculty? There would be a couple of scenes in there where it might turn up. I'm thinking of the confrontation with the principal, and of course the sequence in the locker room, right before the climax of the film. It's not important, of course, but I am curious. Anyone up for a little research? :p

By the way, I don't recall if I've mentioned my computer woes or not (it was ravaged by a virus, and has been limping along ever since), but my hubby is very kindly going to be doing some repairs and upgrading over the next few to several days, so I will be out of touch for awhile. I may be back on tonight, but after that, who knows? And once I have access again, who knows how long before I'll manage to catch up with all you will have written by then? ;) But, catch up I will, and I'll enjoy every minute!

BunnieBuggs-

Right you are. it was me that claimed that photo for my wall. But not because I'm a PHF, or no! - because it is a work of beauty. Every bit as beautiful as any painting of an angel or photo of a model. It is just pure beauty. Well, that's my story, and I'm sticking to it!

BTW, Bunnie- I love your avatar! That picture really grabs me. Whatever is going thru his mind there is dark!

I think your idea of the eye-blinking analysis of The Faculty (the film) is a good one! Wish I could help, but looking forward to what anyone else finds out!

Good luck with your computer! Once a computer has been attacked, or taken ill, I am lost indeed.

Bunnie, hope your repairs go quickly. I enjoy reading your posts.

I seem to be lurking much more than I used to and posting less and less. I guess it could be I don't have anything useful to say, or that all the good stuff has already been said. I really think though, that after a long lousy day at work, I just like to unwind and not have to think. You can't post in here if you are not a thinking person. The "smarts" included in this group of people never ceases to amaze me.

I guess I will continue to lurk until I have something important to say or I have something significant that will add to the conversation. Unlike this post which just wasted your time. :rolleyes:

Move on. Nothing to see here. :D

Originally posted by Carleenya
BunnieBuggs-
BTW, Bunnie- I love your avatar! That picture really grabs me. Whatever is going thru his mind there is dark!
Oh, I was hoping someone would notice my avatar, as I just got it! Thanks! (I know I'm supposed to be gone, but I just can't tear myself away:rolleyes: )

Anyway, that shot is from the Parth Galen confrontation with Boromir. Darn right it's dark thoughts! I had a hard time deciding what picture to use (I made myself 4 or 5 at once!), but our recent discussion of this scene at the "blue place" inspired me to use this. I get bored easily, though, and may have to go the tg route of rotating icons!:cool:

FotR-LotR is the only EW movie I have on DVD, although I will admit a sore temptation to buy a number of movies on DVD that I already have on VHS. So I'm no help there. On the almost-blinking: I thought for a moment I'd caught Viggo at it--the beginning of the blink was just right, but then he went and closed his eyes all the way. Still wondering if this is a common thing among actors, so I suppose I'll keep watching for it, if only subconsciously.

BB-Hope your computer recovers quickly. (LOL on the rotating avatars. I have 30+ sitting on my hard drive and it's just impossible to choose! Now that I know how to make them it's just too darn easy--and tempting.)

Regarding the hobbits tumbling down the hill scene--IIRC that was shot the very first day, and of course had to be done repeatedly. Someone who belongs to the official fan club posted (a long time ago) several pics of "hobbit piles" that resulted from different takes. I don't know if that makes it more likely that EW would be naturally flushed, but we can always think that. (Of course, I suppose, technically, they could have done the hobbit piles one day and the "get off the road" part another day, but that's getting too complicated for my brain this time of day.)

Speaking of which, MsU, you know it's all an act! We don't really fool you with all this blabbing, do we ;) :p ? Stop in and say hi, at least, please--or even a "Me, too" (didn't we have a discussion on that phrase once?). Or just throw a bunch of words together and we'll marvel at your insights that are so deep we can't understand them :D .

Originally posted by tgshaw:
-Just as I'm typing this it came to me!!! Flowers for Algernon!!! Wouldn't he be incredible? Anyone got a spare million lying around to start up production?

Yes that would be a good one. I kinda hate to admit this but I haven't read the book yet (but hey give me a break, I'm reading a lot of books right now as it is! lol), I saw one of the film the versions of it though....but then that was some time ago, so.... I'll have to rememer hard about what went on.

Shadow, I do kinda the same thing except not really place him as a certain character, but think it would be cool if he were in this movie or a movie based on some thing else.

It is some what a shame about Mort, it's really a cute, dark, funny story/comic and I'm sure the movie would have had the same atmosphere. It's a shame also because it's the only one of his characters/possible characters that I knew the most about :( (Frodo would probably come in at #2 amazingly :eek: )

EDIT: I keep forgetting to comment on those pictures of Frodo from the Mirror of Galadreil scene. I don't know..but they kinda freaked me out when I first saw them–some thing about him just doesn't look right for some reason...in some a little "not looking human" thing going on.

Shadow: That sounds intriguing--what's the name of the book?

Hi, Shadow. Since Shilomm hasn't been back to respond to your question, I thought I'd volunteer the information. The Heyer book is "The Reluctant Widow". I recommend it, but then I'd recommend any of Heyer's books if you like Regency romances. :) I think the character she was referring to would be a good role, but we would be complaining that Elwood did not have enough screen time, I'm afraid. I think I'd rather see Elijah play one of Heyer's young romantic heroes, like Lord Sheringham in "Friday's Child". Then Dom and Billy could play his buddies in the book, Gil and Ferdy. Those characters are a hoot, with some laugh out loud funny lines.

Re Vin Diesel: I think he had at least one respectable film in his filmography. He played Caparzo--the other loud-mouthed guy from New York besides Ed Burns. I guess you could call Diesel the "new" Stallone, except that Stallone was actually capable of writing a pretty good movie, which I doubt is the case with ole Vinnie. :rolleyes:

SPOILERS EXTENDED VERSION (contains pics)

From the Home Theatre Forum review (http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htforum/showthread.php?threadid=101554)





spoiler space




http://www.hometheaterforum.com/ronsreviews/ring8.jpghttp://www.hometheaterforum.com/ronsreviews/ring9.jpg

-- my comments: the pic of Frodo & Gandalf together ... that image is just so right. I love it.


http://www.hometheaterforum.com/ronsreviews/ring39.jpg


(Frodo-centric) Description of new scenes

- During a fireworks display, Bilbo welcomes guests
and hides from others as he has extended dialogue
with Frodo.

- Additional dialogue with Strider. The Hobbits
talk amongst themselves as to whether they should
trust Strider and if he really is a friend of
Gandalf.

- Frodo awakens after being stabbed by the blade
of a Wraith. He is in a thicket surrounded by
Troll statues.

- A really cool sequence that takes place during
the roundtable meet in Rivendell. As Frodo
places the ring on the table, Borimor goes for it,
claiming it is a gift to be used against Mordor.
A spell is raised that literally shakes the
mountains.

- A short dialogue sequence where Gandalf asks
Frodo to help an old man. Gandalf asks the
Hobbit how his shoulder is as both discover how
powerful the influence of the ring is becoming. The
wizard advises Frodo to only trust himself.

- Aragorn tells Frodo that Gandalf's death was not
in vain.

- As the group makes a short stop on shore,
there is another sighting of Gollum in the
water. Sam pleads to Frodo that he is truly his
friend and wants to help. Boromir and Aragorn
argue.


A look at the script

- read it carefully. I can't believe what we've missed!

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/ronsreviews/ring26.jpg


***********/SPOILERS

Another one is the character played by Hayden Christensen in Life as a House. It would be really interesting to see EW punked up like that, with the spiked hair and all the piercings .....

Oh no! I really don't ever want to see EW with piercings in RL or as a character.

Maeg: Was it you who said that Stephen King is a Tolkein-nut and references him sometimes too? I've read a couple of his novels but never noticed any Tolkein references. But then again when I last read SK I didn't even know Tolkein so that would explain it.

And is this another Froshadowing type thing - EW was described as the Stephen King kid in The Faculty and SK is a huge Tolkein fan. Gotta be destiny, right?! :D

Cool spoilers, ainon. Anybody know what date next month the SE DVD will be released? It might make waiting a bit easier if I had a count-down to go by! I'm already counting down TTT.

Thanks Ainon for posting those SE stuff. :k
God that screencap of the script is so hard to read, I tried to enlarge it but still not very clear. So I typed it out, hopefully save some problems for you guys :)

bathed in FIRELIGHT...the EYE OF SAURON loons towards CAMERA! FRODO gasps at the EYE, his face twists with FEAR!
ELROND {cont'd}
(disembodied)
Take it away... melt it!
IMAGES: A BRIEF distorted GLIMPSE of ELROND - an ELVEN LORD - working feveriaby to save FRODO... a SWIMMING IMAGE of BILBO'S concerned face briefly drifts past.

ANGLE ON: FRODO as he lies PALE and STILL...

ELROND {cont'd}
His strength returns...but the wound will never fully heal.
Gandalf: It was a lot to ask of him maybe too much.
Elrond look at Gandalf
To what Frodo will come in the end, I cannot tell.

GANDALF
Not to evil, I think. He may become like a glass filled with a clear light...for eyes to see, that can.

IMAGE: A SWIMMING IMAGE of ELROND and GANDALF before the bed. FRODO squeezes his EYES SHUT, GASPING...

FRODO
(frightened)
Where am I?



I really love that picture of gandalf and frodo together, the way frodo look at gandalf, it just says so much about their relationship.
Here's a recent photo of Sir Ian and EW together(GQ 'Men of the Year' awards, Tuesday, Oct. 16, 2002 in New York. Sir Ian was a recipient of the Supporting Film Actor of the Year award at the ceremony). Look how happy they are, makes me grin like an idiot. :p
http://www.hometheaterforum.com/ronsreviews/ring9.jpg
http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20021017/capt.1034818666.gq_mckellan_wood_nyr706.jpg


EDIT: Eagles' Eyrie, I think the release date of SE DVD is Nov. 12th.

Eagles' Eyrie originally posted:
Oh no! I really don't ever want to see EW with piercings in RL or as a character.

I don't know if I need a spoiler space here, but in case anyone has not seen Life as a House yet and wants to, I'll put one in here.




Spoiler



Eagles's Eyrie, the character Hayden Christensen plays starts out as a heavy drug user, but he loses the piercings and spiked hair and really cleans up his act by the end. It would have given EW a chance to play a bad boy for awhile, but in the end he would be our own boy again. I would love to see him play a character like this sometime.



End Spoiler



Ainon--great stuff on the extended version! I've been trying not to read too much about it, so I have some surprises left, but I couldn't resist reading your entire post and then going to the Web site you linked. That scene from the script--will we get to SEE that scene, or is it just a screen cap they show somewhere in the added features? I want to see it!!! We are going to have so much to talk about after November 12th!

Lousie originally posted:
Hi, Shadow. Since Shilomm hasn't been back to respond to your question, I thought I'd volunteer the information. The Heyer book is "The Reluctant Widow". I recommend it, but then I'd recommend any of Heyer's books if you like Regency romances.

Thanks, Louise. I'm not big on romances, but I have read a few that were good. Maybe I'll look this one up.

Anyone who likes good writing should give the Georgette Heyer books a try. They are SO FAR from being traditional pulp romance novels that I always hated calling them that - they are delightful and well-written, with great characters and stories, and as far as I'm concerned the love stories in them are a bonus - not the soppy or tawdry center. I've never made it through a Harlequin romance, because I can't stomach them - and I have read every one of Georgette Heyer's novels that I could find, because I love them!

And while others have managed to tie Georgette Heyer into the topic at hand, I'm not going to bother, because I don't have to!!! I am so grateful that I can make a comment on a subject that arose in the thread without fear of the hammer of doom!!!

EDIT: I keep forgetting to comment on those pictures of Frodo from the Mirror of Galadreil scene. I don't know..but they kinda freaked me out when I first saw them–some thing about him just doesn't look right for some reason...in some a little "not looking human" thing going on.
Well, yeah, Frodo's got kind of a "Vulcan mind meld" thing going on with Galadriel in those pics, especially the ones before he holds out the Ring which is when he's thought-projecting to her. I imagine it was a bit freaky for him, too (the character, I mean, not Elijah)! :eek: Hmmm... Another impossible-to-know-but-interesting-to-consider thought: Maybe that's why he's looking nervous, worried, scared, but doesn't back up or take his hand away--is he still supposed to be enough in "contact" with her that he knows she's ambivalent about the Ring, or even that he knows it's important that she pass this test? That would actually explain a couple of things in the book, too. Although the book doesn't mention any thought projecting, it certainly makes sense that as ring-bearers they'd have some kind of connection.)

ainon--Thanks for those pics from the SE. I enjoyed seeing the blue-screen one from the Council (must be Merry's, "Well, that leaves you out, Pip," moment), partly because of it being Gimli with the hobbits but no one else. I remember reading that John Rys-Davies (sp?) is tall enough that when he and the hobbit-boys were together no special effects were needed.

I'm assuming those lines from the script are not going to be in the SE? They'd contradict some of what ended up in the movie, I think. The line about Frodo becoming a "clear glass" is one of my favorite lines (duh--guess it's in my sig huh?) and I'm actually kind of glad it wasn't broken up between Elrond and Gandalf in the movie, although it would have been nice for the non-book-readers to hear it.

And, deluby, thanks for the "transcript"--certainly much easier on the eyes. -- And having that pic of Gandalf & Frodo just above the one of Sir Ian & Elijah is priceless. :)


(Frodo-centric) Description of new scenes
LOL -- Is there any other kind?? I really hope the relationship with Bilbo is filled out a little.

Originally posted by Alexan
Yes that would be a good one. I kinda hate to admit this but I haven't read the book yet (but hey give me a break, I'm reading a lot of books right now as it is! lol j/k), I saw one of the film the versions of it though....but then that was some time ago, so.... I'll have to rememer hard about what went on.
It's another one that needs a wee bit of suspension of disbelief medically speaking, like BFA, but the character is so much better written! And psychologically angsty story to the max, but to reach maximum angst level you've got to have a good actor in the lead role. Flowers for Algernon is the name of the book, and Charlie is the name of the best-known film version of it, which starred Cliff Robertson IIRC (I don't know of any other versions, but wouldn't be surprised if one or more are out there). The character's name isn't changed in the process--Charlie is the name of the main character, and Algernon is someone else in the story.

It's been years since I've read/seen it, but the plot is striking enough that I'm quite sure I still have the main outline in my brain. I'll put a short plot description below but with a HUGE spoiler warning for anyone who plans to read or see it for the first time and wants to get the full impact of the story. If BFA has a 180-degree plot twist, this one turns inside out and backwards. Of course, anyone who's just interested in why this would be an incredible role for Elijah, read on :p !


COMPLETELY GIVE-AWAY-THE-PLOT SPOILER FOR FLOWERS FOR ALGERNON/CHARLIE

Like I said, it's been awhile. If anyone wants to correct or add anything, please do!















Algernon is a lab mouse/rat. Through experiments on him, a group of researchers find a way to greatly increase intelligence. Charlie is a mentally handicapped man, whom they choose to be the first human recipient of the treatment [suspension of disbelief mode required: you'd never use a human subject that early in the research process for an untried treatment].

Anyway, the treatment's successful on Charlie, too. He goes from a man with the IQ of a small child to a man with a normal adult intelligence--and an engaging, lovely, friendly personality. I don't remember him becoming a genius, but he might have--I wouldn't have noticed, because I was so struck with how much I liked him as a person--which is essential for a good angst level. Got Elijah pictured here, so far?

Then comes the plot reversal--last chance to bail out of the spoiler, here ;) .










The process begins to reverse itself in Algernon, with him regressing back to his normal rodent-self. The realization comes quickly that this is also going to/starting to happen to Charlie. Angst level #1: This man whom--if the actor has done his job!--we've come to love and admire starts returning to his former child-level IQ. And, of course, for awhile he's intelligent enough to understand what's happening to him (somewhat like a person who's in the early stage of Alzheimer's).

"And then it gets even better," as Gimli would say. Angst level #2: When Charlie is well on his way to becoming his former self, Algernon dies. The researchers discover that the treatment that increased his intelligence also caused his death [Yes, big suspension of disblief here regarding human research]. So the researchers realize that this will also happen to Charlie before too long.

Angst level #3: This is where the book's title comes in. The story ends with the completely childlike Charlie, who obviously doesn't understand anymore what's happening to him, putting flowers on Algernon's grave.

Waaaah--I've got tears in my eyes just typing this-- :( :( and substituting Elijah for Cliff Robertson (who did a wonderful job, BTW) in my mind just makes it worse! Sob!! :(


So, whattaya think? Wouldn't Elijah be great at each stage of Charlie's character? And, naturally, none of us are biased :p .





END SPOILER

Just dropping to say how much I enjoyed those spoiler bits from the SE!

And I adore that photo of Sir Ian and Elwood together! So we get to look forward to all sorts of "family reunions" among the cast members this fall as they go into TTT-promotion mode! :)

Originally posted by Shadow
That sounds intriguing--what's the name of the book? It does sound like an interesting character, but it also sounds like one who is intrinsically evil, and I don't know why, but I don't know if I want to see EW in a role like that.

Louise named the right book, The Reluctant Widow, and the character isn't truly evil. He's one who argues that too much compassion can cause more pain in the long run than acting with distance and rationally. He has logical reasons for what he does, that are actually based on a type of compassion, but he still does things most people wouldn't, if you follow. He is a minor character, though.

The book is called a romance, and Georgette Heyer is supposed to be the originator of Regency Romances, but she's also called "the romance writer for people who hate romances." I sent a couple of hers (including The Reluctant Widow) to a Regency-romance-reading friend of mine, she said they weren't romances - "I had no idea the hero loved the heroine - I couldn't even tell who she was going to end up with." She did say that the guy I'd like to see EW play seems to be the basis of 90% of one of her favorite Romance Author's heroes. :p

Louise, I could see EW playing Sherry from Friday's Child, and Dom and Billy as Gil and Ferdy, but you also got me thinking of EW as a Heyer hero - I'd like to see him be Gilly from The Foundling. Gilly is "slightly built and of rather less than medium height", who doesn't like loud voices or conflict and is soft spoken - everyone underestimates him. The Foundling is another one that makes my romance friends grump - the heroine's only in a couple of chapters; it's mostly about the hero coming into his own, and the female character he spends most of his time with is a beautiful pea brain he has not the least romantic interest in.

He also gets knocked out and kidnapped and slays "a considerable dragon, in the shape of an out-and-out villian, whom he tricked, outwitted, and left for dead in a haunt of thieves and desperate characters from which he himself was lucky to have escaped with his life." Or so he reports to his cousin, thinking to make him laugh, but it's truer than his cousin would like to think. :p

But Flowers for Algernon would be much angsty-er than Heyer ever gets, so I'm all for that, too, of course. :D I often wonder if Heyer's books would be half so funny filmed - I think they could be, but it would take considerable skill, because the humor is so character-based and I have a suspicion most producers would shift it over to pratfall type humor (which is what a lot of Regencey romance writers do - haven't found any as funny or as subtle as Heyer). Still, going on North and Chain of Fools, EW could sure handle it.

Originally posted by tgshaw

Or just throw a bunch of words together and we'll marvel at your insights that are so deep we can't understand them.

Caught! :o :p :D

ainon,
I have great hopes about some of these spoilers - I'd like to see more of Frodo and Bilbo together, myself.

I think the blush on Frodo in the Pony is makeup - not so sure about the one before they "get off the road!"

I'm really intriqued by tgshaw's suggestion of the "Vulcan mind meld" sort of undercurrent to the mirror scene, and the idea that fellow ring bearers can sort of tune into each other. Interesting implications there. I always assumed that scene happened (in the movie) the night they arrived, and so Frodo's somewhat subdued responses were based on the fact that he's still suffering a bit of shock from seeing Gandalf fall. Although having 'inside information' while Galadrial goes nuclear would also keep him calm I suppose.

I still think that scene is more that they're testing each other, and Galadriel is surprised by Frodo turning the tables on her, and relieved by her own response - she wasn't sure she would be able to resist if it came right down to it. If they are still mentally connected at that point, there could be a sense where Frodo calms her - he reminds her that she doesn't wish for that result. Maybe his faith in her chosing the right path strengthens her the way Sam's faith in Frodo strengthen's Frodo.

Or maybe the fact that the kids are running DVDs next to me and interrupting me every four words here has affected my brain. Not sure what I'm saying anymore...

Sheryl

Shilomm:

You know, I think I read "The Foundling", but I don't remember much about it. It was probably one of the ones that was out of print and I could only find in the library. If it's the one I think it is, I think Elwood would be splendid in the role--still waters and all that. And he'd also look great in the costumes--I can picture his Frodo curls in a "windswept" style. Heh. I'm a huge fan of Georgette Heyer. After discovering her works (which I think are second only to Jane Austen for Regency period books), I went through several years of trying to find all of her books. Some I was able to buy new, some were used, and some I got from the library. I think I ended up reading most of them, but it was a struggle to find almost 50 books. The woman was incredible. Even her "lesser efforts" were on a much higher plane than any of the people writing today. I feel I know more about that period of history because her research of slang, dress, furniture, etc. was so impeccable. I even got my dad and one of my brothers to read "Regency Buck" because I was laughing out loud at Beau Brummel and I told them about the fight scenes.

It has always amazed me that when there are so many bad books on the market and on library shelves, Ms. Heyer's books are out of print. Are people so lost to good writing? I read a book about Ms. Heyer that I found on Amazon. One of the things that I thought was very telling--Ms. Heyer was invited to Buckingham Palace because the queen was a fan. Elizabeth later told one of her ladies-in-waiting that she found Ms. Heyer "rather intimidating". I would love to read Heyer's biography (I think it was written by Jane Aiken Hodge), but it too, is out of print, and I haven't found a library that has it. Oh, and by the way, a film was done of "Reluctant Widow" back in 1951. Heyer hated it because she thought they made the romance too racy or something. :eek: I found it over at IMDB.

http://us.imdb.com/Title?0043963#comment

Ah well, enough OT discussion. Even KD has it's limits, I'm sure. :) But I'd love to see Elijah in a period piece like that. Maybe involving British spies during the Napoleonic wars. Or something by Rebecca du Maurier, perhaps. They don't write 'em like they used to, do they? :(

Louise

Originally posted by shilohmm
I often wonder if Heyer's books would be half so funny filmed - I think they could be, but it would take considerable skill, because the humor is so character-based and I have a suspicion most producers would shift it over to pratfall type humor...
Kind of like hobbit one-liners and come-back lines? I know a bunch of hobbit banter wouldn't work in an "epic" movie, but I also think its elimination led to more "comic relief" type humor being added. Maybe because JRRT loved word play so much, IMHO the dialogue provides enough humor in the book--and it's more "real" than the sillier stuff.

I'm really intriqued by tgshaw's suggestion of the "Vulcan mind meld" sort of undercurrent to the mirror scene, and the idea that fellow ring bearers can sort of tune into each other...

I still think that scene is more that they're testing each other, and Galadriel is surprised by Frodo turning the tables on her, and relieved by her own response - she wasn't sure she would be able to resist if it came right down to it. If they are still mentally connected at that point, there could be a sense where Frodo calms her - he reminds her that she doesn't wish for that result. Maybe his faith in her chosing the right path strengthens her the way Sam's faith in Frodo strengthen's Frodo.
Well, I was kind of exaggerating with the "Vulcan mind meld" concept, but if there's any kind of connection between the two ring-bearers it would be operating at that critical moment, because the line Frodo thought projects to Galadriel is the very one where he offers her the Ring. And she's just spoken to him in the same way. So, in the movie, IMHO the moment where they're probably experiencing their strongest connection is right there. I've always thought it was interesting that Galadriel then speaks her next line out loud. Did the connection get a bit uncomfortable? Maybe she wasn't expecting this young hobbit to have the ability to make the conversation two-way.

Something happens right at that moment in the book, too, but we're not privy to it. When Frodo offers Galadriel the Ring, she says something about him being "gently avenged" for the way she tested him at their first meeting. The way it's played out in the movie gives me a somewhat different way of looking at that line; it's always puzzled me, because it never seemed to me that Frodo was purposely testing her--he just wanted to get rid of the dang thing! I've also seen people suggest that Frodo somehow knew this test was important and necessary for her (to allow her to return West), and that never made sense to me, either--how could he possibly know something like that? But if there was something going on beneath the level we see and hear in the book, he just might be aware of more than we know. I can certainly see Tolkien hinting at something like that with the "gently avenged" line.

--The point about Frodo possibly being able to strengthen or support her is one I've never thought of. It "feels right" when I think of the scene in the movie--I'd have to reread it again in the book to see if it does the same there.

I have a horrible confession to make. I have never heard of Georgette Heyer. :o

But I sure would like to see EJW in a period film. As long as it takes place in the Napoleonic area or at any rate before the late 1800’s, so that he doesn’t have to wear a top hat. Well, EJW actually is the only actor I’ve ever seen who has managed to wear one of those things without looking like a complete moron (in Oliver Twist), but that hat *is* quite squashed. :D

EJW would be wonderful in that extremely angsty “Flowers for Algernon” story, no doubt about it. (But in a way it seemed very similar to Bumblebee, perhaps especially to the book rather than the film?)

Ainon, thanks for the spoilers. That pic of Frodo and Gandlaf is just simply wonderful!

EE, I am no expert on Stephen King, that’s rather ainon’s field, I believe.


Another mirror theory – feel free to disagree!!

I read tg’s and Sheryl’s various posts about the mirror scene and the “mind-meld”, and started thinking: Just *why* does Frodo offer the ring to Galadriel? Why does he in effect also offer it to Aragorn on Amon Hen? Is he himself even conscious about why he does this? (Tg’s just posted along the same lines while I was writing this, but the more, the merrier, I hope…….)

So here follows *another* one of my long-winded theories. It also covers another possible reason why Frodo is not freaked out when Galadriel goes nuclear. This is entirely movie-verse based. The scene with Aragorn does not even occur in the book, and the mirror scene has been altered a good deal, of course…………….

Frodo does offer the ring to Galadriel "freely". She says so, and she has telephatic powers and is doing the mind-meld thing, so she should probably be able to recognize his true intent and motivation. But that he offers the ring "freely" may only mean that he does it without her *compelling* him to do it, it doesn't necessarily speak of his *reason* for doing it. Later on, Frodo’s question to Aragorn "Would you destroy it?" is perhaps more of a challenge and less an offer for him to take the ring..... Still his face has quite a similar expression to the one in the mirror scene, I think, and he does hold the ring out so that Aragorn has the possibility to take it.

Does Frodo think that the quest would be better served, or ME better protected, if someone powerful and “good” took responsibility for the ring? He probably does, but that question IMO is a little beside the point this far into the story, because I think Frodo knows deep down that he will likely not be able to voluntarily give the ring up anymore. He certainly would like to be rid of it, but I believe he knows on some level by then that he simply can't surrender it freely, even if the recipient was to be one of the mighty powers for good in ME. Also, although he feels that he himself is totally inadequate for the task, he has reason to think that Galadriel (or Aragorn) would not fare much better. After all, he knows that Gandalf wouldn't take the ring and recoiled with horror when it was offered to him, and he knows Elrond sent them on their way from Rivendell with the ring.

Now if either Galadriel or Aragorn had decided otherwise than they did, and had taken the ring from him, he wouldn't have had the power to resist. He'd have lost the ring, he must know that. And it could have destroyed him, at least mentally; he could even have gone mad, or become Gollum-like in his desperation to get it back. (The book has Gandalf say, as early as back in Bag End, that if anyone made Frodo give up the ring, it would break his mind) Is Frodo conscious of *that* risk also? I think he is. He did manage to give the ring up at the Council, but then the ring immediately brought home to him in a very painful manner that it is very closely linked with him. In between the council scene and arriving in Lothlorien, he has felt for a little while what it would be like for him to lose the ring. (on Charadras when Boromir picks it up.) And we know that in the SE SVD he'll also be having a conversation with Gandalf about the growing impact of the ring (I can't remember the exact dialogue from the spoilers). By the time he holds the ring out to Aragorn, he has also just experienced how he felt when someone actually tried to take the ring from him by force. I think Frodo knows quite well how painful it would be for him if anyone else took over the ring.

So, if he isn’t really planning to give the ring to someone else in Lothlorien or on Amon Hen, is he then "testing" them to see if they can resist the ring’s temptation? I don't know for certain, but I certainly think much more is going on with Frodo in those two scenes than him just consciously "testing" or challenging the other two. He should be wary about doing that. He has every reason to believe that if either of them fails the test and takes the ring, it would be for other purposes than to carry out the mission to destroy it. And in the film, he has reason to be scared of both of them, even to distrust them, both times when he holds the ring forth. Galadriel has been presented to him as a "witch", and she appears rather spooky, frightening and enigmatic up until after her "testing". Her ability to speak with him telepathically could seem quite frightening too. In contrast to the book, he seemingly doesn’t know enough about her yet to consider her wise and fearless and fair, and has had no proper chance to determine that she'd actually be a good keeper of the ring. And when he meets Aragorn on Amon Hen he has just had to fight off Boromir, so he must have the “one-by-one-it-will-destroy- them-all” knowledge fresh in his mind. He could therefore easily fear that Aragorn has also been taken by the ring- especially with Viggo’s wonderful delivery of his “Where is the ring “ line. With these uncertainties and high stakes involved; - I can't really see that Frodo would deliberately and consciously decide to "test" the two of them at the risk of losing the ring.

Therefore, in holding the ring out to them, is he not rather mainly testing and tempting himself and his own *fate*? He is challenging his destiny, hoping against hope that the burden and responsibility will somehow be taken away from him, although he may risk his life or sanity in the process. These instances of offering the ring to others who are more powerful than himself may in a strange way make him the equivalent of people who get a rush out of throwing themselves off of mountains...... he is placing himself in circumstances where matters outside of his own control will decide the outcome and whether he remains in possession of the ring.

The look on his face when Galadriel says that she'll not take the ring; - he's not frightened of her going nuclear as others would have been, he's just sad, disappointed and afraid of what's to come. He tempted fate, but fate did not let him off the hook. He still has the responsibility, he still has to carry the burden, and alone, even though he feels so completely inadequate.

As to why he isn't more frightend by Galadriel's nuclear thunder and lightning, this is where the mind-meld comes into play. Isn't it possible that he is less overwhelmed by it than any other onlooker would be, because he recognizes a similar turbulent response to the ring within himself? Although he's almost preternaturally calm on the surface in that scene, it could be that her reaction reflects the ring's increasing effect on his own mind. If so, he's not scared by her ring-induced thunderstorm effects which are no real surprise to him as ringbearer. But he's saddened because it gives him yet another confirmation that the mighty of ME *cannot* take over the responsibility for the ring. Because of their power, they will be affected by the ring even worse than he is; - which means he truly *is* alone, and there are no-one more powerful and wiser that fate could decide should take the burden away from him. :(

Just a quick note on Maeg's post as I'm on the run--

Interesting stuff about Frodo offering the Ring to Galadriel and Aragorn in the movie--Pretty sure I'll have more to say about it when I have a chance to think about it a bit :) .

Yes, Flowers for Algernon is like BFA in some ways. Kind of too bad (like anyone would ever film it again anyway :rolleyes: ) -- as if there's any imitation going on it's in BFA. Flowers for Algernon was written earlier and is much better in regard to both the story and--especially--the character. Some people consider it a classic (I read it first in a high school English class).

Wow: tg, sheryl, maeglian! You have all three added immeasurably to my appreciation of FoTR (both the book AND the movie.) Wonderful analysis of the telepathy between Frodo and Galadriel.

Maeglian said:
As to why he isn't more frightend by Galadriel's nuclear thunder and lightning, this is where the mind-meld comes into play. Isn't it possible that he is less overwhelmed by it than any other onlooker would be, because he recognizes a similar turbulent response to the ring within himself?

I wonder if the effects PJ uses on Galadriel are meant to make her parallel the Nazgul as Frodo sees them when he is wearing the Ring? Certainly that would make sense in terms of what Glads would *become* if she were to take the Ring. Frodo had already had the experience of such transformations, on Weathertop, so maybe his calm in the face of Galadriel's storm is a product of his own experience.


As for period roles for EW, I still would LOVE to see him cast as the main musician character in Rose Tremain's Music and Silence. It's set in the seventeenth century, it is about the power of music to heal the soul, and it is a love story, to boot.

I am off to the library to check out Georgette Heyer. Thanks, folks!

Originally posted by Vita S-B
I wonder if the effects PJ uses on Galadriel are meant to make her parallel the Nazgul as Frodo sees them when he is wearing the Ring? Certainly that would make sense in terms of what Glads would *become* if she were to take the Ring. Frodo had already had the experience of such transformations, on Weathertop, so maybe his calm in the face of Galadriel's storm is a product of his own experience.
I don't know. Calm in the face of something that reminds him of the Weathertop experience? We don't know how traumatized movie Frodo will be at the end of RotK, but book Frodo can't even bear to look at the hill when riding by it in safety, and relives the experience every October! And that experience is forshadowed in the movie when Gandalf says "his wound will never fully heal."

Movie Frodo hasn't gone through the full trauma yet, but I can't imagine he'd be calm if anything reminded him of it. I wonder if he will fall down the cliff at the sound of the Nazgul shriek in TTT?

Mel

Mel,

the spoilers for TTT hint at one very intense encounter between F,S, G and one of the Nazgul on his flying steed. That would occur later in the story than when Frodo is climbing down the cliff in the book, but it should probably give a good indication about just *how* traumatized he was at Weathertop in the movie verse. (All angst lovers are looking forward to this, now aren't we? :o )


In my previous post I forgot to thank all of you who posted with information on G. Heyer and the storylines of some of her books.
I enjoyed reading this very much. There's always something new and unexpected to learn here! :) :)

Wow. Great posts regarding Frodo-Galadriel-Aragorn. Thanks Tg, Maeglian, Sheryl.

MsUnderhill - get out of that lurking mode. I remember reading lots of your posts over at Imladris and CofE when I lurked. My own rantings fall way short of Tg, Ainon, Maeglian, BunnieBugs Ariel, Elve, and everyone else's terrific insights, and I tend to read a lot more than I write, but I do like to respond now and then.

deluby, I also loved that IM and EW pic. Hadn't seen that one before.

Fascinating FOTR Extended Edition spoilers, Ainon. Just think, we will all have even more to talk about come November!

:)

Louise, I think you mean Daphne du Maurier - Rebecca is the title of one of her books. Yes, her novels tend to be mysterious and a little on the dark side. I have read quite a few of hers. I particularly enjoyed 'My Cousin Rachel,' and thinking about it, EW would certainly fit the criteria for the main character, Philip, or Pip (coincidence!). He's about the right age. Philip Ashley is the young ward of a country gentleman in 18th century Cornwall. His life is thrown into turmoil by the unexpected marriage and mysterious death of his cousin and guardian, Ambrose. With the arrival on his doorstep of Ambrose's Italian widow, Rachel, Philip experiencs the pain of deep loss, confusion, almost obsessive love, illness, suspicion, despair and guilt. Perfect material for Elijah!

Now, my main reason for posting tonight - screencaps. Thanks to Tg for your suggestion about converting the BMP's for JPEG's. I spent all last night attempting to do this, and I think it's worked -at least they are uploading to the site now.

Here goes...

Edit - Drat and double drat! I tried to post some screencaps, but they're coming up as those pesky little boxes with red crosses in.
:( I must do some more research to see how to get the actual images to appear in the text. This is getting embarrassing.

BunnieBugs. I do have The Faculty DVD, and was looking forward to putting up some Casey screencaps for you - but it looks like a case of 'back to the drawing board'.

Must go. Bye for now.

:reads Tg's post about Flowers for Algernon: Oh yeah I remember that! Though I think the version I saw was this Tv movie that came out a few years ago. You know I think I even fell alseep just for a few minutes a few times. :eek: But I was tired that day and wanted to go to bed. But I think it would be a great role for him. Ahhh angst...my favorite genera next to goth-romance. :D

I love that picture of Gandalf with Frodo.
And that one of Ian with Elijah. :) (you mean Lij wasn't nominated for an award??? :mad: )

–Alexan

P.s. when is that Ash Wednesday Q & A gonna come?

I don't even know what the Regency period is. :o Thanks all, for teaching me something new. But Heyer's books are out of print? :( And thanks tg, for the Flowers for Algernon spoilers. Yes! EW should do this. *Major* angst! What? Of course I'm not biased!

My formative teen reading years were shaped by Stephen King, Tom Clancy, Frederick Forsyth - name the 'guy' book and I'd probably read at least one of the series. My understanding of average American life is greatly influenced by King (how's that for surreal) and the useless stuff I knew about espionage and the British Secret Service made me feel darn smart. Also explains why have a high tolerance for physical angst and character deaths. :D Gee, does anybody really want to set me off on a gushing rambly post about Stephen King's geekiness? ;) Too late. I'm rambling anyway. :p

While Stephen King is primarily known as a horror writer, some of his best work is in simple 'life-affirming' type tales; the excellent movies Shawshank Redemption and Stand By Me were based on his novellas. He pays homage to Tolkien in two big epics: The Stand and The Talisman (co-written with Peter Straub) - the latter even has a character that is recognisable to anyone who's read LOTR. :) He drops LOTR references in various other books - small little things that you pick up (I discovered King and Tolkien at about the same age, so I'm always tickled silly whenever I come across such references). And bless his heart, he's a hobbit guy. Anytime you're in a bookstore, look for his Night Shift short story compilation. Flip through the story Strawberry Spring. It's not a horror piece, so don't worry about anything overtly scary. You'll find excellent proof of his fondness for our hobbits in the second page of that story. ;)

King's characters are some of the best characters ever written - they talk like real people, the heroes aren't perfect, if you get a glimpse into their minds they tend to be thinking about mundane everyday stuff even right up to the moment before all heck breaks loose, and if they get 'taken over' by ghosts or whatever, King lets us stay in their heads so we know what they're fighting against, if they're even fighting against it. A good adaptation of King's work leads to terrific performances by actors (the two movies mentioned above, and also The Green Mile - which features a supporting role so vile that you hate him precisely because he's the type of guy who could be working right beside you in the office; The Shining gave Jack Nicholson a terrific role, although I'm not particularly keen with whatever on earth Stanley Kubrick was on when he made that version). Problem is, there aren't many good adaptations of King's work. All the roles I think up for EW have been done by other actors, to pathetic effect. :( But there's one very dark tale, The Long Walk, that has a teen character. Very deep psychological angst as the character suffers through the Walk - a reality-show type 'competition' set in the near future, where teenage boys have to walk a long distance across several states. Anyone who lags or tries to cheat is given a warning; three warnings and he gets shot on the spot. The boys are not allowed to rest, and only one boy may reach the finish line. He earns the adulation of the whole nation and is richly rewarded. We stay with the character through it all ... and witness first-hand his slow deterioration and the moment when he finally snaps. Think of it as what Tolkien never wrote from Frodo's POV. :eek:


-------------

Maeg, I think you're onto something there, about Frodo tempting fate when he 'offers' the Ring to Galadriel and Aragorn. I have noticed that there's a shift in the three times he offers the Ring to others: with Gandalf it's clear he really wants to hand it over. With Galadriel, the Ring rests on his palm, but he could easily close his hand over the Ring, or draw his hand back. He doesn't step up to Galadriel either - she'd have to come to him to get the Ring. With Aragorn, he holds the Ring very close to his body in a way that says it's about an ungenuine an offer as it can get. He practically slouches over that Ring. ;) Then there's that flicker of something in his face when Aragorn moves close enough and makes as if to take the Ring. I always think that maybe Frodo wasn't expecting Aragorn to take him up on the dare, and in that split second he's considering that maybe he's going to have to resort to drastic measures.


--------------

Special Edition Stuff

I think that page from the script was a very early draft. We won't ever see it. :( Nonetheless I was thrilled silly by the thought that the screenwriters were trying to envision to that scene. Oooh, we're trusting the movies to a couple of Angst Mavens. Life is good. :D

Thanks deluby for the IM & EW pic. Surreal, seeing human-sized EW with IM, and little Frodo beside big Gandalf. Makes the geek in me ponder again: how did they shrink Frodo there?


---------------

Ash Wednesday Q&A

Need you ask, Alexan? Fill us in on more of the angst! ;) Now, do we actually see him commit the murders? Does he kill anyone else later in the movie? Just how much screentime does he get anyway? Is Edward Burns really as annoying as the reviews make him out to be?


--------------


I have folks visiting, so you'll probably be spared my rambling over the weekend. :D Meantime, hope Luthiea had fun on her trip, Bunnie - we'll be waiting for you to get back with good news about an upgraded comp ;) , squires_lass11 - is it okay if we call you SL (yes, I am a lazy typist) or would you rather another nickname of your nickname, Blossom - if your images are already up at ImageMagician it's just one more simple step to get them in here. Copy the url, and paste it between the image tags: [i]your URL[IMG]. We definitely need more Casey in here. This place is dedicated to him!

MsU, even a "Me too" post would be wonderful once in a while. :) IMVHO, those "Me too" posts are the best for giving off a nice warm, welcome feeling. And a "I don't think so" post will set us rambling on a different tangent, so that's good too. Besides, you're the only one here with a Frodo licence plate. You actually *have* Frodo in RL. :D

Last but not least, estella rose -- are you here yet? :)

Originally posted by ainon:
Ash Wednesday Q&A

Need you ask, Alexan? Fill us in on more of the angst! ;) Now, do we actually see him commit the murders? Does he kill anyone else later in the movie? Just how much screentime does he get anyway? Is Edward Burns really as annoying as the reviews make him out to be?

Well you guys just seem involved in other discussion topics I just didn't know when to jump in. Ok lets see...

*–The camra kinda hides the view of the two(?) people he's killed but you can still see a lot of the...emotion I suppose in it.

*–Hmm don't think so, no.

*–Well a pretty good amount, but still not as much as I would have liked.

*–I've read some of the other reviews, and no not really...he did kinda..in a way take up too much time for a character that was so..bland. (But of course like every one else here I wanted to see more of Elijah :whines: )


Squire's Lass..it's your turn.

Originally posted by ainon
Maeg, I think you're onto something there, about Frodo tempting fate when he 'offers' the Ring to Galadriel and Aragorn. I have noticed that there's a shift in the three times he offers the Ring to others: with Gandalf it's clear he really wants to hand it over. With Galadriel, the Ring rests on his palm, but he could easily close his hand over the Ring, or draw his hand back. He doesn't step up to Galadriel either - she'd have to come to him to get the Ring. With Aragorn, he holds the Ring very close to his body in a way that says it's about an ungenuine an offer as it can get. He practically slouches over that Ring. ;) Then there's that flicker of something in his face when Aragorn moves close enough and makes as if to take the Ring. I always think that maybe Frodo wasn't expecting Aragorn to take him up on the dare, and in that split second he's considering that maybe he's going to have to resort to drastic measures.
A piece of "supporting evidence" is the difference between the offer to Galadriel in the book and in the movie (now that I've had time to check the book). In the book he tells her why he wants to give it to her--it's too great a matter for him, she's wise, etc... In the movie it's just a flat offer with no reason behind it, just "...if you ask it of me." IMHO, though, there would almost have to be some mixed motives that maybe he doesn't even quite have sorted out, because at the very end of their conversation he does the symbolic "rededication to the quest" move of closing his hand over the Ring. So I think some part of him did want to be rid of it.

I've always thought that Frodo's main purpose in the scene with Aragorn is to get him [Aragorn] to understand why he [Frodo] needs to leave the Fellowship. Frodo does jump a bit when Aragorn approaches him; I'm not sure if he expected that, exactly. IIRC, Frodo doesn't actually offer Aragorn the Ring does he--at least not in words? Or have I forgotten something? Interesting that there Aragorn closes Frodo's hand over the Ring. (A non-Frodo aside: does that move of Aragorn's remind anyone else of Arwen closing his hand over the evenstar necklace at Rivendell?)

Blossom - if your images are already up at ImageMagician it's just one more simple step to get them in here. Copy the url, and paste it between the image tags: your URL[IMG]. We definitely need more Casey in here. This place is dedicated to him!
With the closing one having the slash, of course:

If you want a handy little Help file (hey, I need all the help I can get, so I discovered this a long time ago!), go down to the bottom of the page you're on when you're writing a post (or even this page), to the boxes under "Forum Rules." In the righthand column, the things that are "ON" are underlined: vB code, Smilies, [IMG] code. If you click on the underlined word, another window opens that gives all the instructions for it. So if you click on [IMG], you'll get the instructions for using the IMG tags. I love it when I don't have to remember things like that! It's hard enough to do them :D !

Edit:

Well you guys just seem involved in other discussion topics I just didn't know when to jump in.
Ah, yes--this is a skill I've had to develop in order to hold conversations with a couple of Italians I know. You can't wait for a pause because there will never be one--you just have to start talking! :p :D

Originally posted by ainon
Special Edition Stuff

I think that page from the script was a very early draft. We won't ever see it. :( Nonetheless I was thrilled silly by the thought that the screenwriters were trying to envision to that scene. Oooh, we're trusting the movies to a couple of Angst Mavens. Life is

LOL! I read that and had the same reaction!

BTW, Excellent observations on the times when Frodo offers the ring to various people! I had never noted that but you are absolutely RIGHT! I had noticed that 'oops' look when Aragorn reaches for the ring at Amon Hen, but no one else has mentioned it before so I thought it was just my own imagination. Thanks for validating me!

I also have the Faculty on DVD, but Blossom, I think we need to get you able to screencap and post. It really isn't hard once you figure it out, and... oh, there... tg just gave you the same link I was going to!

Ariel

Blossom: Louise, I think you mean Daphne du Maurier - Rebecca is the title of one of her books.
Yeah, I know. I realized I was almost late to a meeting and was trying to rush, so when I tried to think of book titles I ended up putting Rebecca and Daphne together. I should know better than to post at lunch. Not enough time to check your work. :rolleyes: But you knew what I meant. The Faculty is always ready with the proper "research". :D

Hmmm, Elijah in "My Cousin Rachel". I guess I can see it. I kind of vaguely remember an old movie with Richard Burton, but I guess it didn't make too much of an impression. Somebody went over a cliff, didn't they? And if you're going to put Elijah in a movie about somebody's Italian wife, how about "Desire under the Elms", where the son of the house gets a little too friendly with his "old man's" new wife (even though both want to inherit the farm. If I remember the movie correctly, the wife is just trying to get pregnant so she can make sure she gets the farm, so she seduces the son). Nothing like Eugene O'Neill for angst and covetousness and hidden passions, not necessarily in that order. Or am I thinking of some other old movie? :confused: Then again, if they ever remake the film, they'll get the "hunk of the month" to play the son instead of a real actor like Elijah.

The same would happen with "Flowers for Algernon", I'm afraid. Every time the new young hunk wants to do "serious" roles to prove he can act, a real actor loses out. But I guess we can always "imagine" good roles for Elijah. I'll have to think about some other roles for him and get back to you.

Eugene O'Neill! Angst in an American period piece - that would be perfect.
More fantasy casting - how about Oswald in Ibsen's "Ghosts"?
(Kenneth Branagh was really good in a TV version of that some years back). I'm still hoping for a good English-language adaption of The Brothers Karamazov - he'd be perfect as Alyosha (did anyone see the version with William Shatner?! That was surreal. I can't remember much of the rest of the film.)

Fussy fashion police alert:
These new GQ pics are cute, but I really wish EW would take his jackets to a tailor and get the sleeves shortened and the shoulders adjusted. Everything seems to just hang off him! - ok for casual wear but not for formal occasions. Looks like he's wearing hand-me-downs or something ( so what if they're GUCCI hand-me-downs!:p )

I have no doubts about Elijah's acting ability; the last half hour of The War and a screencap from the Homicide episode convinced me long ago that he is in that first tier of acting ability, the tier that disappears into roles. The Dustin Hoffmans, the Meryl Streeps, The Liam Neesons, the David Wenhams :).

However, Elijah is at a disadvantage in Hollywood. For one thing, he's the wrong age for a lot of things. He looks too old for teen/college comedies (and honestly, he's too mature; he's already paid his actor dues as a child and doesn't need to break into Hollywood by gettin' it on with a pie), and he's too young to be in any mature man roles. Movie roles for men tend toward fatherhood angst, or career angst, the type where the actor has too look old enough and look "normal" enough to be a father or be established in a career. For example, Gregory Peck roles. Charlie in F for Algernon, I thought, was at least 30. Elijah will need at least another 10 years before he's eligible for most of these roles.

Parts for actors his age, one they get out of teen/college roles, tend toward romantic leading-man type stuff. I'm sorry to say that IMHO, I don't think he's got that leading man look. Leading men tend to be normal-looking, slightly neutral, with enough facial beauty thrown in to make them eye candy. (Examples: Any James Dean, Josh Lucas in Sweet Home Alabama, Tom Cruise in his Days of Thunder/Far and Away period, Cary Elwes in Princess Bride, Hugh Jackman, and a hundred others.) Elijah's face is just too interesting and intense -- at the wrong camera angle, and without THE WIG to soften his lines, he's almost hard to look at. Of course he could do some comedic anti-leading man roles -- Ben Stiller is famous for this -- but I can't see Elijah in Ben-Hur. Elijah was smart to try out for Spiderman, it's his kind of thing.

I realize I'm putting looks over talent, but casting depends and awful lot on looking the part. It's the only reason Keanu Reeves isn't broke.

Elijah does have the face of a good sidekick or character actor, but leading roles? Too bad he's grown up, I think he would have been PERFECT for the Charles Wallace character from A Wrinkle in Time. Charles Wallace had that same other-worldly quality, and can you imagine what Elijah would have been able to do with his Eyes to show when CW gets taken into IT?

At his age, with his ability for unusual roles, his intense face, his angst talent and microexpressions, all I can think of that he could really do well would be --- --- Hamlet.

oops

- lapsed back into lurkdom just keeping up with this thread
- marvelling at your insights
- dazzled by the screen caps especially blushing Frodo :D
- and generally just me-too-ing alot :)

ainon - forgive me for not responding to your first request re a shortened name - SL is just fine with me - Squires Lass is a handful :) :)

Alexan - you've thrown the ball into my court re Ash Wednesday...
Eek, no rewind button to push :eek: Got to rely on my memory - this is the only film aside from LOTR that I've have seen Elijah in on the big screen - I likes:D

SPOILERS RE ASH WEDNESDAY

In the beginning of the film, we see Sean, Elijah's character, overhear the thugs plotting to kill his brother, Ed Burns. He's behind the bar and overhears the conversation. His facial expression is rather like Frodo on the road with the Hobbits when he senses the evil in the air. We don't actually see him shoot the gun till later in a flashback but we do know he's tormented and goes to confession. There is no physical contact between Sean and the three men, tho we see the results of the shooting. He follows them to the men's room and either at close range or with excellent aim (I think he shoots exactly 3 times) he puts them away. Sean doesn't seem to hesitate, I think he's decided in those few minutes prior to taking action that Francis? (Ed Burns) and the preservation of his life is most important.

Aside from the shootings, I don't think there are any other physical encounters. In fact, it seems strange to me that after hiding away all these years - there'd be some big old hug or other between the brothers or with the few people who are let in on the secret (Alexan ?). Francis is very p'd off at Sean's re-appearance so there's no affectionate embrace although I think Sean of course greets his "bride" with a hug, and smiles in delight at the little son he didn't know he had.

There's not enough angst at all in the film for Elijah in my opinion, in fact, me thinks the angst is all on Francis' side - so that may well give you an idea of how much screen time Ed Burns gets.
We likes angst - we do ... when done as well as Elijah can do it.
:D

END OF SPOILERS


Ooh, thanks for the reminder on Georgette Heyer, have never read any of her works but have heard of her ( I'm also a Colin Firth fan and I'm sure someone somewhere singled out a character in a Heyer book for him). Will also check out Rose Tremain. I must say I like the idea of EW in a costume pic. He looks so gorgeous in his hobbit attire and curls.

Originally posted by erendis
Elijah was smart to try out for Spiderman, it's his kind of thing.

Elijah tried out for Spiderman? Did we miss this, or am I getting forgetful in my old age? That's more surprising than him trying out for Moulin Rouge! I remember hearing that Tobey almost didn't get the part because people thought he wasn't "beefy" enough for the role, so I can't imagine EW trying for it as tiny as he is. I guess he doesn't let his size stop him from trying for the parts he wants - good for him.

Did anyone in the US see Entertainment Tonight last night? Paula Abdul was reporting from the GQ Awards, and there was an adorable interaction between her and Elijah where they hugged and talked about how "Forever Your Girl" was his first job. They even showed a quick snippet of the video. Later today, I'll try to make a clip for you guys to see. (**edit** to add: A&F has a bunch of pics of EW at the awards show - looking adorable and unkempt as ususal.:))

I actually had a dream the other night where I was talking to Elijah and he mentioned he was considering the Einstein role. I quickly commenced to explaining to him why it was important that he do that particular role. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that the messagee got through!

I used to be a complete Steven King junkie when I was younger (pre 1990 or so). I think my two favorites were the "The Stand" and "It", both of which were made into dreadful TV miniseries (actually, most of his adaptations are dreadful, except for the ones ainon mentioned, and Carrie is also great). One cool note, the nursing home part of "The Green Mile" was filmed on the Moses Cone Estate on the Blue Ridge Parkway - about 5 miles from where I live!

Other than SK, I have never heard of the other books/authors you guys are discussing, so I don't have much to contribute there. (well, I take that back. I did a paper on Eugene O'Neil in high school and really loved his work. Kevin Spacey seems to like acting his plays.)

The Spiderman thing may have been one of my hallucinations. :o

The best Steven King adaptation is Shawshank Redemption. The Stand on TV was terrible, the Langoliers (sp?) on TV was even worse. Does King always drag his stuff out like that? And they complain that LotR was too long. :rolleyes:

And I can't believe you've never heard of A Wrinkle in Time. :eek: Even the "bad kids" were recommending it in 6th grade. The two sequels are not so great, but the first one is very good, if you can get past the fact that it was written in the early sixites, when the physics geeks got all the glamour.

I was reading about the details of the features that will be included on the extended version DVD - and lo and behold - there is a feature called "Editorial Demonstration: The Council of Elrond." It contains 8 sub-items - Final Film, Shot 1, Shot 2, Shot 3, Shot 4, Shot 5, Shot 6, and Multi-screen. Wouldn't it indeed by marvelous if the DVD contained the answers to the very questions raised here in the Faculty regarding the editing of that scene???

There are features on the writing of the script, storyboarding, film techniques, visual effects, post-production, costume design, Weta Workshop, etc, etc, etc - as well as features on all the major and minor characters in the film. It is starting to sound like a major treasure trove of new discussion items!!! What a wonderful way to spend the last month while we wait for TTT!!

I'm back, just trying this out - again. Thanks Tg, Ainon and Ariel for your advice and encouragement. Now this HAS to work, or else I will be admitting myself to the nearest psychiatric ward.

edit - Aaaagh!!! It is still not working for me!!! I followed all the instructions and those little red crosses in boxes is all I get.
I am off to get into my straight-jacket. I hope you will all come and visit me !!! :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: Is it just me?

I am dumbstruck at the moment due to immense disappointment, and have nothing constructive to say. I will come back later when I am less

:confused:

Btw, Tg. That 'Flowers for Algernon' role sounds perfect for EW.

Blossom, your photos aren't showing up. Where do you have them stored? Perhaps you didn't use the correct URL?

Narya, thanks for the CoE info - that's amazing. It reminded me of something I meant to bring up here before (maybe someone else mentioned it, but I admit I've been skimming the last few days), and that is the fact that there is actually going to be FOUR commentary tracks all the way through the entire film, one of which is actor commentary - where the actors alternate talking about their scenes while their characters are onscreen. This will, of course, mean lots of EW commentary, and we'll finally get to hear him discuss his acting/character in depth. I also can't wait to see the "Day in the Life of a Hobbit" section. It's not long now... just a bit over 3 weeks. And TT comes out 2 months from tomorrow (**edit - I mean today!**)!
Originally posted by erendis
The best Steven King adaptation is Shawshank Redemption.

You are absolutely right, erendis... this probably my favorite adaptation after The Shining. I've only seen it about 10 times, can't believe I didn't think of it. :)

As far as "A Wrinkle in Time", well, maybe I had a deprived childhood, but I have never heard of this. But then I'd never heard of Lord of the Rings either! It's what happens when you grow up in rural North Carolina. :rolleyes: (of course, Sean Astin grew up in LA and was a literary major in college, and he said he'd never heard of LOTR either - hard to imagine!)

The extended DVD features do sound great! Aren't there two DVD's of special features included, or am I misremembering that?

All this talk of period roles has me imagining Elijah in a powdered wig :eek: !

Elve--I'd love to see that clip with Paula Abdul.

And this is me not apologizing for the length of this post: :D -- that's what we're known for, right? Research results below:

I'm sure we're more worried about EW's acting future than he is. Well, maybe it's not worry, but just wanting to be able to see him in good roles and have other people realize how great he is. Anyway, for a bit of a reality check I went to IMDb and looked up three actors who are on the short side, who are not your usual "hunky leading man" types, and whom I consider to be actors, if you know what I mean :rolleyes: : Dustin Hoffman, Johnny Depp, and James Spader (I can't believe I haven't thought of bringing James Spader into this discussion until now--he's one of my favorites!). To ease any worry, Elijah's miles ahead of where any of them were at his age (yeah, I know, that doesn't help us when we want to watch him act :( ).

I didn't print any of the info (or take notes) and am doing this from memory. Since I'm anything but a movie expert, many people probably already know a lot of this already, but here's a rundown of research results:

The biggest surprise to me was Dustin Hoffman. I knew The Graduate was his big breakout role, and then I remembered him in things like Midnight Cowboy, but I wondered what he was doing for all those years between. The surprise was that there weren't "all those years" between. He played Benjamin in The Graduate (a character who's very believably 21/22 years old--IMHO, anyway) when he was 30! It really was a breakout role--he goes from there straight into starring roles in other movies. He's probably the most atypical as far as career path.

Johnny Depp started younger. He was in a few things I'd never heard of while a teenager, and was on 21 Jump Street which, IIRC, was where he was "discovered," in his late teens--so TV exposure isn't necessarily bad. He acted during his early 20s, but his well-known leading roles (What's Eating Gilbert Grape, Edward Scissorhands, Don Juan de Marco) didn't start coming until the second half of his 20s.

[My James Spader comments below take up most of this post--but, hey, I've read everything that's been posted about Georgette Heyer :) !]

James Spader is admittedly not a "star" and probably never will be, but I think he's a very good actor and his looks remind me of EW's in a way--that is, good-looking but a bit off the norm of what people usually mean by "handsome." And IMHO he's one of the best at being someone the audience "loves to hate"--although he's played good guys, too. He looks like someone who could be rather naive and/or innocent, so when his evil side starts showing it can be great fun (he tends to play characters you don't know is the villain until some way into the film).

He did a couple of things while a teenager, and then in his early 20s got onto an interesting career path--I don't know if it was planned, or if he simply took the roles he could get. He kind of worked his way up the cast list in unheard-of movies until he got into the top few characters in the movie (not specifically the lead). Then he jumped to more well-known movies (one of the first was Wall Street with Michael Douglas), but started over again at the bottom of the credits, eventually working his way back up. He first got on my "radar" in his mid-20s playing Diane Keaton's smarmy, backstabbing co-worker in Baby Boom (a comedy, but his character is definitely one I love to hate). He was working steadily all that time, but his big break was probably as the lead in Sex, Lies and Videotape in his late 20s, and it was after that he started to get bigger roles. He does some indie style films, too.

He does some pretty edgy stuff--some of it probably edgier than a lot of us would like to see EW in (even though I really like Spader's acting, there are some of his movies I never plan to see). The most violent one I've seen is Wolf, with Jack Nicholson and Michelle Pfeifer. Spader's character starts out as the same kind of smarmy, backstabbing coworker he played in Baby Boom, but then things start to escalate and, oh, my... do they ever escalate! By the end of the movie he's completely over the top. There's a great scene in the police station at a point in the story where he thinks he's still acting normally, but he's starting to go over the edge. Funny and chilling at the same time. I could really picture EW acting that scene, but I don't know if I'd want to see him doing some of the things the character gets into by the end :eek: .

As far as playing good guys, I've seen him in a completely forgettable romantic comedy (but IMHO, it wasn't his acting that sunk it--gee, that sounds familiar :p ). But my favorite of all his roles is a type I think EW could excel in--basically, an adult Casey :) --geek to the max, but such an adorable geek. That's Dr. Daniel Jackson in Stargate (the movie, not the TV show). I just love him in that movie--to the point where it almost doesn't seem possible that the same actor could play such "out there" bad guys.

My goodness, kind of a disparity in the amount of space I spent on those three actors, isn't there? Maybe I need to find a James Spader appreciation thread somewhere (OTOH, considering some of the roles he plays, I don't know if I'd want to read what might be in a James Spader appreciation thread :eek: ).

Anyway, summary of the research is that while Johnny Depp and James Spader were working in their late teens and throughout their 20s, they didn't do anything that got their name noticed until their late 20s (except for Depp's time as a teenager on 21 Jump Street). Dustin Hoffman's career path has been pretty atypical, but his main asset is probably his versatility; was anyone besides me thinking of Rain Man when we were discussing mentally handicapped roles--same director as Avalon :) .

Oh, erendis! Absolutely, Hamlet! EW would have been a FAR better choice for the role than Mel Gibson, but since it has been so recently done I am afraid no one will do it again so soon. By the time there might be some interest in doing it, EW will probably be as much too old for it as Mel was.

Blossom - You are saving your pictures on a website, right? Are you linking to them using an "http://..." link? When you click the button above with the [img] on it, you have to paste the whole link to the picture in it... including the "http://name of file". To test if your pictures will link, try opening the file up as its own webpage. If it works there, it will work in the file. Do you have Yahoo? PM me and I will be happy to walk you through actually linking the pictures... I feel bad for you, hon!

Thanks for the EV spoilers... man, I can't wait for this edition!

Ariel

Blossom--It's so frustrating to try to get a problem like that straightened out without being in person! It's probably some tiny little thing that's causing the problem. Even though Ariel's much more techno-literate than me, I'm putting in just a couple of points that are specific for Image Magician, since I also use that site.

When you're on the page with the thumbnails of your images, do you know you have to click on the particular image you want to post so that it opens into a full-size picture? When it's open, underneath it there's a white box with the URL (what Ariel mentioned), starting with http. You need to put everything that's in that white box between your IMG tags.

If all else fails, use the Image Magician "Support" button--it gives a short lesson on how to use the site, plus a form to send in if you still have a question.

Thanks again, Ariel and Tg. I'm really lagging behind on the reading here, spending so much time trying to master this screencap business!!

http://www.imagemagician.com/images/blossom/Frosuspicious.JPG

edit - YES! YES! YES! IT WORKED!:) :) :)

Blossom does Fro's chicken dance, wild with delight!!

(I was typing 'image' instead of 'images' in the URL. Doh!)

I know this pic isn't on-topic at the moment, but I do love that expression on Frodo's face there. He's 'looking' back suspiciously towards Boromir, who's sitting in the boat on the banks of the Anduin.

Elve - Oooh, DVD commentary by EW. I can't wait for November 12th.

I am drunk with joy, so I will go away, settle down, and think of something intelligent to say next time - oh, and to work on some Casey screencaps, of course.

Once again, thanks for your help and guidance ladies.

Blossom - success at last!!!!!!!! Congratulations on joining the screencap posting fraternity!!!!!!!!

Woo-hoo! Blossom, you made it! Congratulations! :)

I'm looking forward to seeing more screencaps! :)

Yaay! Blossom did it!!!

And such a nice shot, too; no wonder you persisted....suspicious Fro!

Thanks!

Hey, tg, of course you can talk about James Spader. He's one of my favorite "smarmy bad guys", although I kind of enjoyed his romantic comedy with Michael Caine as the ghost. It was fun to see Mr. Cool/Mr. Slick bumble around for a change. He was so believable that I suspect he must be a pretty nice guy in real life. I know that he guards his family's privacy fiercely.

In addition to being a good bad guy, Spader was frequently the only redeeming thing in a host of teenage angst movies in the '80's, several starring the "how did this guy get to be the star of this movie when James Spader's around", otherwise known as Andrew McCarthy. And Mr. Spader delivered one of my all-time favorite put-downs in "Pretty in Pink". Re Molly Ringwald's incredibly tacky, gauche and uncharming character, he said, "She was, is, and always will be NADA". Can you tell I thought that Ringwald's talents were vastly over-rated? She was fine in "Sixteen Candles", but began to get on my nerves in "The Breakfast Club". Somehow she took a mop of red hair and an assortment of facial tics and convinced a lot of people that she would be the "next great actress". Personally, I was unconvinced. But she did give Spader and a couple of other baddies some good lines over her teen years.

Ah, well, I suppose I should lay most of the blame for Ms. Ringwald's career where it belongs--on John Hughes. Like I said, she was fine in light comic roles, but her version of teenage angst just irritated me to death for some reason, poor girl. I was looking for someone to identify with and I got her. I think it was mainly because the guys she had the hots for in those films were usually so drippy. In real life I'm sure she's a perfectly nice, intelligent, sensible girl who would never swoon over Andrew McCarthy, but it was her misfortune to be frequently cast as his Juliet. So I ended up half the time rooting for Mr. Spader. :D

By the way, one of my favorite James Spader films was "A Killer in the Family", with Robert Mitchum. Great performances by all concerned, with Mitchum truly scary as the no-good father whose sons busted him out of prison. Since it was based on a true story, it was sad, but Spader and Eric Stolz were great as the boys who did not realize their father was not an "innocent man" wrongly convicted by a crooked system until it was too late. I guess this should really be in "Non-LOTR Movie" section, but, oh well, tg started it. :p

I would love to have seen Elijah in "A Killer in the Family". He would have been so good in the role of the youngest brother--much angst and disillusionment about his father. Unfortunately, he was only about two years old when the film was made. :rolleyes:

I can't wait for the extended FOTR DVD. I've got a feeling that the scene with the elves in the woods on the way out of the Shire will be very popular with screencaps. Much more so that the extra cave troll footage (no offense, Gordon). And the behind-the-scenes stuff looks great too. Is it November 8 that it comes out? Let's see, that's only 3 weeks. After that it's "Hurry up TTT!" Woohoo!!!!!

tg, louise: I think James Spader is a fine actor. I thought he was terrific as the archeologist in 'Stargate,' a film I have seen many times, as it was also a favorite of my son. I don't think I'm going to see 'Secretary,' though. From all I read about that film, Spader's role is more than just smarmy!:eek:

erendis said:
I realize I'm putting looks over talent, but casting depends and awful lot on looking the part. It's the only reason Keanu Reeves isn't broke.


LOL, right you are!

And I can think of any number of Shakespeare roles that EW would be terrific in, though Hamlet would be number one!

Well I just wrote a huge post about...what ever but then I hit the back button too soon so I'm just going to say F&*$%&$ %&$#Q^ $#&$%&$@* $&^@&@%^@!!!!!!! And have a nice night ladies.

Well, I've had a killer few days at work, so I have a lot of catching up to do, but before I do I wanted to ask if anyone else saw the contest they are having on AOL? The grand prize is a trip for two to NewZealand, including airfare and hotel. There will also be 2,000 winners (200 in each of 10 markets) that will receive one pass redeemable for two people to attend a special screening of the extended edition of LOTR! The screening will take place on November 5, 2002 at a sponsoring movie theater in one of ten specified cities.

Other prizes:

- First Prize:
(5) winners will each receive Sting, the Sword of Frodo Collector's Edition by The Noble Collection

- Second Prize:
(5) winners will each receive The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring™ Table Top Battle Game, The Fellowship of the Ring pewter miniatures (9 figures) and The Lord of the Rings Paint Set

-Third Prize:
(10) winners will each receive a sterling silver Arwen Evenstar Pendant by The Noble Collection

- Fourth Prize:
(25) winners will each receive a sterling silver Elven Brooch by The Noble Collection

- Fifth Prize:
(25) winners will each receive The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring™ Special Extended Edition DVD

- Sixth Prize:
(25) winners will each receive The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring™ Visual Companion Book

- Daily Prize:
(20) Twenty winners on each of the 31 days of the sweeps will receive The Lord of The Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring™ T-shirt and poster.


Now I wouldn't turn down any of these, but what I really would like to win is one of those movie passes to the screening. Imagine getting to see the EV on a big screen. That's something we are not likely to ever get the chance to see.

More on topic, I love James Spader as well. He was great in sex, lies and videotape, and my favorite JS role--Stargate. I guess I never realized he was really all that short. Anyone know how tall he actually is?

Originally posted by Ariel
Oh, erendis! Absolutely, Hamlet! EW would have been a FAR better choice for the role than Mel Gibson, but since it has been so recently done I am afraid no one will do it again so soon. By the time there might be some interest in doing it, EW will probably be as much too old for it as Mel was.
Oh, but Hamlet is supposed to be 30, remember - even if he is still bumming around university and living at home with his mother. :D The Mel Gibson Hamlet was actually made way back in1990 and there was also a Kenneth Branagh version in 1996 (thanks IMDB!), so by the time EW is the right age for the part these films will be 15-20 years old.

On the topic of EW's appearance affecting the type of roles he might get, I don't think that EW has done himself any favours by being so open about his height, as it makes people perceive him as being a "little guy". There are many short film actors around, but they can always create the illusion of greater size using tricks like the legendary Alan Ladd Box. Tom Cruise, for example, is allegedly about 5'7" in real life, but you'll never hear it coming from his own lips or in any of his official PR material.

Not to change the subject at all, but have you heard the about the above-titled short film Sean Astin directed, that's screening this weekend in LA? (I have to work this weekend so no way I can get to it. Darn! ) It was filmed in New Zealand and I think it has something to do with the height issue. SA's another one who's had to struggle with the same problem. Hey, at least EW's taller than Danny Devito! Maybe he's decided it's easier in the long run to just embrace his shortness rather than try to conceal it. I think his small stature is exacerbated by his very slight build. Maybe he'll bulk up as he gets older.

I did catch that TV clip of EW at the GQ event, talking to Paula Abdul. I was struck by the odd role reversal time has brought about - she used to be the big star when he was a kid, now she's practically retired, and he's the bigger name. I can't remember her exact words, but she said something about his having referenced his role in her video, I think it was " I'm so glad you still mention that" in a way that sounded almost touchingly grateful (and he graciously replied " well of course"!) Moments like that must be very gratifying for him.

Congratulations on the screencap breakthrough Blossom!!

Speaking of Hamlet, looks like he's been practising;

http://us.imdb.com/EGallery?source=granitz&group=1606&photo=ElijahWood_Vespa_629261_400.jpg&path=gallery&path_key=0311941

Congratulations BLOSSOM!

I've got some stuff to post, see if I can remember them all.
1. Some quotes from a interview with PJ concerning F/S/G.Early buzz has suggested that Towers is the most horrific of the three Rings films, but Jackson remarks, "We don't reach Mordor yet, so the dark, scary stuff doesn't come until Return of the King. I personally think one of the scariest things in The Two Towers, though, is the Frodo/Gollum/Sam relationship. We took a lead from Tolkien, but have gone a bit further into the area of the psychological thriller. There is no action with Frodo and Sam in this film; they're simply slogging their way to Mordor, but the complication is Gollum, whom we briefly saw in the first film. He joins them very early on and they become a trio. The psychology of who and what Gollum is, and the mind games he starts to play on them, is kind of interesting."read the whole interview here (http://www.geocities.com/cracker233/Jackson)

"psychological thriller", I like that :) I think TTT is gonna be a lot more intense than FOTR, can't wait!


2. Hi-rez version of trailer image, from fantasyplanet.cz.

http://www.fantasyplanet.cz/gfx/pictures_clanky/lotr_gal_velky_200210171035291006.jpg

3. Elben Wald (https://ssl.kundenserver.de/s8590345.shoplite.de/sess/utn153db0e4d026274/shopdata/0060_Gew=E4nder/0020_Shirts/product_overview.shopscript) is selling LOTR T-shirts, here is one of Frodo.

https://ssl.kundenserver.de/s8590345.shoplite.de/produkte/E9018.jpg

4. EA games (http://www.ea.com/eagames/official/lordoftherings/home.jsp) has 3 short interviews with VM, OB and EW about the LOTR game that's coming out, you can watch the one with EW here (http://www.ea.com/downloads/eagames/official/lotr/interview_1_hi.mov) . He talks about him being a huge game fan and showing him playing a little bit. I did some screencap here. The last one is a combination of 3 frames.

http://www.imagemagician.com/images/deluby/temp03.jpg http://www.imagemagician.com/images/deluby/temp02.jpg
http://www.imagemagician.com/images/deluby/temp01.jpg

5. The banner on EA's website has a shot of Frodo that I don't think I've seen before, so I chopped it and enlarged it a little bit. I think it's similar to the shot in the trailer, but not exactly the same.

http://www.imagemagician.com/images/deluby/frodo136.jpg

6. While looking at the picture that Blossom posted, I thought of this one. It's from the Sci-Fi channel's documentary on the DVD. It goes by pretty fast, I remember having to rewind every time I watch that part. :p

http://www.imagemagician.com/images/deluby/frodo137.jpg

7. I know we've seen this shot before, but the color here is a bit different, and I just can't take my eyes off from it. :o :p

http://www.imagemagician.com/images/deluby/frodo135.jpg



whew, I think that's about it. :D

EDIT: About Sean Astin's short film The Long and the Short of it...
I think I read it on some magazine article that some of LOTR's cast and crew played parts in that short film. IIRC PJ was mentioned to play a bus driver. Unfortunately I can't find the source now. :o I remember reading it at that time and thinking if we ever will see it. Hopefully there will be reviews after this weekend's screening.

---edit----above images deleted due to storage shortage.

Deluby: Thanks for a treasure trove of stuff. The PJ interview is terrific. I'm psyched for TTT even more now. And the cute little interview with EW about the Video Game is worth listening to, even if (like some of Elwood's more mature :rolleyes: fans) you think Video Games a complete waste of time.

As I listened to his commentary, I couldn't help thinking that his voice is deeper now than it was in FoTR. Can actors change the color of their voices at will? Is this a function of EW's maturing process? Or did he just hab a code?

Edit: All right, I just want everyone to know that Vita and I evidently simul-posted, and I did not copy her by using "treasure trove"--great minds think alike, and, besides, what else would you call that offering?


Originally posted by deluby
7. I know we've seen this shot before, but the color here is a bit different, and I just can't take my eyes off from it. :o :p
deluby--What a treasure trove of pictures! Huge thanks. And about "#7"--IMHO, the angle's a bit different from the pic we usually see, too, and, yes, it is mesmerizing.
EDIT: About Sean Astin's short film The Long and the Short of it...
I think I read it on some magazine article that some of LOTR's cast and crew played parts in that short film. IIRC PJ was mentioned to play a bus driver. Unfortunately I can't find the source now. :o I remember reading it at that time and thinking if we ever will see it. Hopefully there will be reviews after this weekend's screening.
There was a write-up about this some while back on AICN, but I don't think it said anything about PJ as a bus driver! The main reason I remember where I saw it is that the article called it Sean's "directing debut," and I sent them a correction, telling them the things he'd already directed--but I don't know if they ever fixed that in the article. The way they talked about it, it was done during the time LotR was being shot, almost a "behind the scenes" type thing about the filming (but that may be about as accurate as their description of Sean's film history :rolleyes: ). This latest report makes it sound more like a separate story.

And I agree with most of what's been said about EW's height: that it's possibly more of an issue because of his build, and that it may be less of an issue as he becomes more mature-looking (which he seems to be doing by leaps and bounds lately); that may even be more important for him because of his acting as a child--casting directors have to be able to look at him and see an adult, not traces of what he looked like in earlier movies--OTOH, someone just starting out in acting as an adult doesn't have that image to overcome.

The "should he or shouldn't he" bring it up himself question is probably a two-edged sword. I think I'd lean toward the "should," simply because it is so noticeable. Kind of like an actor with, hmmm, I don't know, a big nose or something, can sometimes get more mileage by playing into it rather than trying to ignore/hide it. Bad example, but I can't think of a better one right now :rolleyes: . Actually, in the two Sean Astin movies I've seen (Rudy and Memphis Belle), Sean plays parts specifically calling for short actors (and both are based on real people, especially Rudy), because the characters' shortness affects the stories. How that balances out against parts he was passed over for the same reason, I have no idea. And, IIRC, Sean's about an inch taller than Elijah.

But, looking at priorities, we can't forget the part he was born to play, and the fact that there was a two-inch height window within which all the hobbit actors had to fit in order for the special effects to work. Some things were measured with Frodo as a starting point, after he was cast, but that actor also had to fit within that two-inch window in order for the effects to work with the "normal sized" characters. So I see his height as one of those fate/karma/divine intervention/"coincidence" things that led to these movies actually being made and to Elijah playing Frodo. I wouldn't want it any other way, and I rather think (JMVHO) he might say the same thing, even career-wise, since the role has brought him so much notice (and just wait til after RotK!!), as well as set him up for life financially so he doesn't have to worry about it if there are some parts he's passed over for because of his height.

Okay, on the James Spader sidetrack, tg the silly poster started this affair and she had better finish it... I mean there's off topic and then there's Off Topic. You know, I don't really know how tall he is; I've just always gotten the impression he was short, but maybe he just seems that way to me. I went to IMDb to see if they gave a height for him, but I didn't find one. I don't know if this is useful, since they're both slouched over a bit, but here he is with Kurt Russell:

http://www.imagemagician.com/images/tgshaw/ScanImage32-1.jpg

And, no, I'm not planning to see The Secretary, either! As I said earlier, I don't think I'd want EW to follow JS's complete career track!

But that latest trip to IMDb was useful in one way. In the set of "Celebrity Photos" [or however they're labeled] that IMDb puts on one side of the screen and which changes regularly, they've got both Elijah and Orlando Bloom pictured. I clicked on EW's pic to see if it would bring up more images, but instead it took me to a page at Amazon.com with posters, framed photographs, press kits for many of EW's earlier movies, and probabably some other pic-related things. It also listed a few things that are in the process of being auctioned right now. So if anyone's interested in that kind of thing... I don't know how long his pic will be up at IMDb, but I imagine that page at Amazon is always there. (There was only one item I saw that was noticeably mislabeled, and I got a :D out of it -- they had several of those pics of a brooding Elijah, in the not-quote-buttoned-up black see-through shirt, and one of them was labeled as a picture from LotR. My first thought was, "Boy, that's not Frodo the way I've imagined him!" Later thought: Maybe it's from his time as "one of the worst young rascals of Buckland." :D )

And I can't forget to say: Congratulations, BLOSSOM!! See, I thought it was probably just some little thing like that (and, you know, you can use the copy and paste functions under "Edit" to copy the URL and paste it into your post so you don't have to retype it ;) ). Great picture, too. Thanks for sharing it and for being so determined!

Deluby, I simply HAVE TO share some of those images of Frodo with the Harem thread. I hope you don't mind...let me know if you do and I'll take them down. I'll give you full credit, of course!! :)

Wild Goose--I had just gone back to the top of this page to re-look at deluby's images and go to any links I'd missed earlier, and one of the latter was yours for the pic where you said EW had been practicing to play Hamlet. Do you know what I expected to find? -- The scene where he's playing Hamlet in North! :D :D Not quite, eh?

Way back in Imladris days, the one below was making the rounds as "The Hamletian Hobbit"--I used to know who it had originated with, but I've forgotten now... so if anyone here can claim it, please do!

http://www.imagemagician.com/images/tgshaw/outtakes/hamletian_hobbit.jpg

Hmmm...just another side note on the Hamlet motif:

Apparently in 'Try Seventeen' there is a 2B or not 2B speech! However, I don't know whether it is delivered by Elwood or another actor.

But doesn't it seem that the stars are lining up to have EW perform this role?

Ah, well, one can dream.....

ps: tg: yup, great minds DO think alike! And thanks for posting the picture from Stargate. Maybe I'll rent it again, to do some 'research' on JS's height!:D

References to Frodo as the "Hamletian Hobbit" probably come from Niphredil -- she's written an academic paper on the subject. (Presented at 2001's Oxenmoot, I believe... and I think she mentioned it was getting published.)

And I agree that EW should play Hamlet.

I think most actors who are known for playing child and teenaged roles have a bit of a struggle getting good adult parts at first. Kids grow up faster than adults forget images of the kids, you know! I mean, I forget how long it's been since the 80's all the time, and most directors are older than me. Playing a 3.5 foot-tall character while he's making the transition to adulthood will probably be a problem for a while, unless the performance (especially in RotK) is so powerful that we forget Frodo's height. (Mel crosses her fingers.)

You know, at the end of all this EW will have spent something like a fifth of his life working on LotR! Wow.

Mel

I took a quick look for a pic of James Spader standing next to someone. I found one with Eric Stoltz (on right in pic below). IMDB says that Eric Stoltz is 6' tall. Therefore, James Spader is shorter than that, but appears to be a respectable 5'10" or so.http://www.angelfire.com/celeb/jspics/images/kif2.jpg

Of course, you can't see their feet, and Stoltz could be standing in a trench, but I doubt it. :D

Has anyone seen the news over at TORN that Liv Tyler is going to sing in TTT. All I can say is "Please don't let it be on the sound track, PJ." :eek: I got awfully sick of hearing Aerosmith whenever I saw anything about Armageddon on TV.

Also, has anyone in the US ever seen the Cadbury LOTR offerings? I remember someone in the UK talking about getting Cadbury FOTR candy at Easter or something. But the new TTT candy mentioned at TORN has 8 movie photos per pack. You get chocolate and pictures of the cast (hopefully not all orcs). How cool is that? I wonder if they have the really good pics like Frodo gazing upward at heaven. I'd love to get that one. Anyway, if anyone sees these for sale in the US, please advise which store they were in. Thanks.

P.S. tg, Viggo is down in the corner of the group of photos with Elijah and Orlando at IMDB.

Originally posted by mel headstrong
... and I think she mentioned it was getting published.)
Yes, by the Tolkien Society, probably in Mallorn. I told her that would spur me to renew my long overdue membership, but, well, haven't done it yet :o . But if it's published before I get my membership/subscription renewed, I'm sure I can order a back copy. :rolleyes: -- at myself. I do really want to read it, because most of the comparisons I can think of between the two characters relate to how different they are from each other.

Playing a 3.5 foot-tall character while he's making the transition to adulthood will probably be a problem for a while, unless the performance (especially in RotK) is so powerful that we forget Frodo's height. (Mel crosses her fingers.)
IMHO, if Frodo matures enough mentally and emotionally by the end of the story (which it sounds like he will--I'll cross my fingers for that, too), the height won't matter so much. A lot of the time in TTT and RotK he's only with another hobbit and a hobbit-like character, so at those times there shouldn't even be a height difference to notice.

Louise--I don't think there was any FotR candy in the U.S. Seems the Europeans had that part of the "marketing"--I remember there were a few products available in Germany, but they weren't from Cadbury. I buy Cadbury Easter eggs every year and there was nothing FotR-related, at least not on any that I saw. Of course, that doesn't necessarily mean there won't be anything next year.