Khazad-Dum - The Faculty Lounge: An Elijah Wood Discussion

Mariole

07-08-2003, 11:48 PM

You know, I didn't think it was possible, but it looks like Ms. Kholodnaia actually has bigger eyes than Elijah.

That's one. :p

Interesting how this scene in TTT didn't seem to do much for many of us (gorgeous pictures for the gallery, though). I wonder if it might play better in the SE. The Faramir bit appears chopped up (particularly the goofy splice between the barrel scene and the "Faramir approaches" scene). Odd thing is, this barrel scene was one of the teasers they played on TV before the movie opened. Odd. Do you suppose PJ really liked it?

Blossom, love the angsty collage. Quite lovely! Yes, young Witness!Lij does look older than his years. He did some scary stuff as a little kid (thinking also of that disturbing early scene in Avalon).

from Ainon
No real rhyme or reason to post this 'shadowing', other than it made me go "Awwww ... "
You can always use my dodge and claim that it's character development... between movies ... :rolleyes:

from shilohmm
And I still love the contrast between EW playing Frodo at Gollum's Throat and Frodo at Sam's Throat, and I still don't have time to discuss it...
Yes, we must discuss this. I may have to get some more caps somewhere. I'm still letting Happy!Fro have a bit of a romp after Angsty!Fro has gotten so much play.

Hobmom, I really appreciate the concern, but I don't believe I have a problem with capping. (Although Bridget may have a problem; much as I love him, I think that Morgan Freeman cap may be a bit of a stretch for this thread...) For myself, I cap because I enjoy it, and I can quit any time I want to. Really! I can go a whole post without posting a cap. If I want to.

Happy Birthday, Ainon! Here's a cloak-action cap for your enjoyment :k

http://home.ricochet.com/mdes/limages/clo4.jpg

(Now, this was a special birthday cap, and not just a cap because I can't stay away from capping. Because I really can quit any time ... I want ... to ......*)

Narya Celebrian

07-09-2003, 12:31 AM

Popping in to say a Very Happy Belated Birthday to Prim!

and Happy Birthday ainon!!!

Ever since you posted those Frodo / Faramir pics, I've been meaning to drop in and say that #5 captures the moment I think of as "Oh no, not you too!" It's another one of those brilliant very-momentary expressions that crosses EW's face that communicates so much. I see there the split second change from wariness of Faramir in general to fear that he will repeat Boromir's attempt to claim the ring himself.

I had a brief career as a cap maven, but my nasty RL has squelched all opportunity to turn it into a genuine addiction. The siren call of frame-by-frame is still there, though!! Is there a meeting for would-be addicts who just can't find the time to graduate to full addiction?? :D :rolleyes:

Love the cloak-swirling pics. I've always loved the way that fabric moves, and have wondered if they used fans or other devices to get such exquisite movement from them.

Loving all the pics!

And Blossom, thanks for your very kind words the other day - you really made my day, though I didn't have a chance then to tell you so!!!

Prim

07-09-2003, 02:14 AM

Happy Birthday Ainon!!!!

Dang. Your birthday. Oh. Well. Will put the trouts (note the plural) in the fridge.

Thanks for the birthday greetings again Facultiers. Its surprisingly heart warming to read them. Its such fun to be part of an international community.

originally from Blossom I didn't know you were a twin, Prim. I hope RL has improved for you.

I've been a twin ever since I can remember!!!
And real life did just improve a notch. The Lamentable Twin , up here for a visit, has just admitted she viewed The Two Towers and loved it!!! (Oh- I forgot to say: Don't read this bit Brunhild, lest ye be discouraged ;) )
Yup, we are still a way away from getting her to actually read the books but at least the movie "overwhelmed" her and she cried at Helm's Deep. And Elwood did a very good job as Frodo. I'm flabbergasted. In a good way. :)

The EW lying on his side in the bed shot: which movie is that from?

Sheryl- you are just toying with us.:mad:

Brunhild

07-09-2003, 02:54 AM

Selamat Hari Lahir Ainon! I hope I didn't make a mistake by preferring 'lahir' to 'jadi'...

tgshaw--The enhanced Frodo/Kholodnaia comparison is almost uncanny :p. BTW, the name Kholodnaia should mean 'Cold' in Russian so she was 'Very Cool' indeed :).

I've found a Russian review of Try 17 which I'm way too lazy to translate into English (or Malay ;)). The reviewer observes that it compares unfavourably with The Graduate--the 1967 cult movie starring Dustin Hoffman--and wonders whether EJW decided to do it just to remind the world that he's got normal feet :rolleyes:. It's said nonetheless that EJW resembles Hoffman in that he's "tiny, agile, funny, and touching." :cool:

whiteling

07-09-2003, 05:16 AM

...to sing in chorus...

Happy birthday, ainon !! :)

Have a lovely day!

Ainon, thank you for answering my question. I think, those pirates use English at best as forth language, don't they? :D

'Faust' is the title of a tragedy (kind of national epic) written by J.W. Goethe in 1808 (Part 1) and 1831 (Part 2). It's based on a historical figure, Doctor Faustus, an alchimist and fortuneteller. He was said to have a pact with the devil and it's a very popular topic here in 'old Europe' ;) . Faust's story is about the human thirst of knowlegde and how close it can you bring to Evil (and to Good, in the very end!).
Greetings to everybody :) !

ainon

07-09-2003, 06:54 AM

Oh wow, guys. Thanks for the b'day greetings! (Brunhild, either word is fine :k ) Thanks for the cakes, Bridget and Sheryl ... although Sheryl, you sure everyone else in the Faculty is gonna forgive you for that rich exotic fruity scent? :D

Blossom - we missed each other by mere minutes this morning/night! :k Lovely, lovely, exquisite collage - if I had seen that this morning I wouldn't have wanted to go do any work! I'd just want to gaze. Thank you. :)

I absolutely love that cloak action, Mariole. Nice ...

Bridget, the Morgan Freeman pic won't show. :( Looks like the site has been Facultied. :p Well, Morgan Freeman was Elijah's President in 'Deep Impact' and he's got the coolest narrating voice in the history of movie and National Geographic narrations. And err ... Elijah's narrated stuff too. Besides, can there be any person out there who embodies the spirit of Frodo perseverence and faith and determination as thoroughly as Andy Defresne does? Oh okay, so Bridget and I are trying to subliminally persuade tgshaw to watch 'Shawshank Redemption' in subliminal ways that will no doubt subliminally succeed. Sooner or later. And of course tg is only subliminally reading this reduced font portion of this post.

Whiteling, thanks for the Faust info. Sounds like my kind of tale. ;) But that's one looooong wait between Parts 1 and 2! Prim, that's Jones Dillon, from 'Try 17'. :)

Thanks again, everyone. Y'all really made this a lovely day. (((((Faculty)))))

Bridget Chubb

07-09-2003, 02:58 PM

Originally posted by ainon
Bridget, the Morgan Freeman pic won't show. :( Looks like the site has been Facultied. :p Well, Morgan Freeman was Elijah's President in 'Deep Impact' and he's got the coolest narrating voice in the history of movie and National Geographic narrations. And err ... Elijah's narrated stuff too. Besides, can there be any person out there who embodies the spirit of Frodo perseverence and faith and determination as thoroughly as Andy Defresne does? Oh okay, so Bridget and I are trying to subliminally persuade tgshaw to watch 'Shawshank Redemption' in subliminal ways that will no doubt subliminally succeed. Sooner or later. And of course tg is only subliminally reading this reduced font portion of this post.

Oops.:o :o Never trust any website but your own, that was my right rule. Of course, my website's apparently decided to have an uncooperative-toddler type day too.:rolleyes: But the important part is that I fixed the link so we can all see the picture now.:D Hey ainon, maybe if we call her tgshawshank it'll help! D'you think? Of course I agree that Andy and Frodo share many of the same spectacular qualities, and anyone named tgshaw who loves Frodo and Elijah's interpretation of him will undoubtedly love Tim Robbins' portrayal of Andy, too. And if they refuse to see the movie, well, they're only hurting themselves...

*Bridget sees Ele coming with her I'm-The-Mod-And-You-Are-Off-Topic bat*

Eek! (pointing frantically at nearest Elijah picture) How does he do that??

Goldenberry

07-09-2003, 03:31 PM

Happy Birthday, ainon!

Even if it's already the day after your birthday where you live in RL.

Blossom, that collage is fantastic!:cool: But shouldn't you do a Happy Fro one for ainon's birthday? Not begging, just, ah, suggesting. You know, collage bunnies. Like plot bunnies, only smaller. ;)

shilohmm

07-09-2003, 04:17 PM

Originally posted by mariol3b3

Yes, we must discuss this. I may have to get some more caps somewhere. I'm still letting Happy!Fro have a bit of a romp after Angsty!Fro has gotten so much play.

Yes, well, Happy!Fro is all very nice, but I simply can't comprehend this whole concept of getting weary of angsty Fro... :D

Hiya, Narya! I've wondered about the cloaks and fans a bit myself, although it all looks reasonable. Japanese anime has guys with cloaks on air conditioned ships, and their cloaks swirl mightily regardless....

Prim,
Your news on your twin is awesome! Maybe there's hope for my brother. :rolleyes:

Originally posted by Prim
Sheryl- you are just toying with us.

I think the real problem is that I look at Frodo Murderous With Ring Madness, and then I look at Frodo Grimly Determined To Kill If Necessary, and I just sigh happily at the angst of it all... I need time to sit down and watch the scenes in question frame-by-frame to jumpstart my brain again, yep. My initial thoughts on EW's acting have been overwhelmed, I'm afraid.

Speaking of sighing happily at the angst of it all - I like the scene of Frodo and Sam leaning against the barrels talking, and always have. Mostly just because it's so awfully purty. :p I'm a hopelessly visual creature; I often miss dialogue something fierce the first time through an involving movie because I'm too busy watching it. Sam's suggestion is all wrong, of course, but Frodo's half apology, and having to bare his soul to Sam, and EW's excellent work there redeems it for me.

originally posted by ainon
Sheryl, you sure everyone else in the Faculty is gonna forgive you for that rich exotic fruity scent?

As I recall, I established in the Cathedral that you could only smell stuff you *wanted* to smell, and I'm sure the same rules apply here. 'Tis one advantage of virtual food!

ainon and Bridget,

:mad:

Now, look here you two! You cannot keep this up. Next thing you know we'll be discussing Tobey Maguire's performance in Spiderman, or Macaulay Culkin's career (or lack thereof), or Ang Lee's latest flick in here... erm, wait a minute. :o Never mind.

Speaking of Ang Lee, any reviews on the Hulk? :D

And I'm sorry to inform you, ainon, but I liked Bridget's first offering the best. The one you couldn't see. :(

Watch Shawshank Redemption! Watch Shawshank Redemption!

While I'm not opposed to throwing Blossom collage bunnies, I thought the angsty one particularly appropriate for ainon, since she and Ariel are the only ones who match my obsessive angst appreciation. :p

Sheryl

shireling

07-09-2003, 05:16 PM

Just popping in to say how I'm loving all the pics and caps and I think I'm just about in time to say:

HAPPY BIRTHDAY AINON:D:D:D:D

Viola Took

07-09-2003, 05:58 PM

I'm late but I'm still gonna say..

HAPPY BIRTHDAY AINON!!!!

thanks for all the pics everyone..this is a flying visit but I do confess to lingering over the pics, especially the collages

viola

[thanks her lucky stars that she is not called the LAMENTABLE TWIN:k ]

tgshaw

07-09-2003, 10:51 PM

Originally posted by mariol3b3
...(Now, this was a special birthday cap, and not just a cap because I can't stay away from capping. Because I really can quit any time ... I want ... to ......)
Ohhhh, mariol, sounds serious :eek: ... besides the blatant denial in your statement, there's also that subtle denial of posting what are obviously two caps and calling them a cap :( . ;)

Also on the cloak action--notice that both of Frodo's cloaks have this uncanny ability; one of the best cloak action sequences is on the falling staircase in Moria. Were any of the other characters' pre-Lorien cloaks swirly? ...Legolas', maybe.

Originally posted by Brunhild
...The reviewer observes that it compares unfavourably with The Graduate--the 1967 cult movie starring Dustin Hoffman--and wonders whether EJW decided to do it just to remind the world that he's got normal feet . It's said nonetheless that EJW resembles Hoffman in that he's "tiny, agile, funny, and touching."
Well, y'know, just IMHO, saying that a coming-of-age comedy isn't as good as The Graduate is a bit like saying a romantic drama isn't as good as Casablanca :rolleyes: . It may not be the best one ever made, but it ranks right up there. Can't make any judgment on Try 17 yet, but as a Dustin Hoffman fan who loves The Graduate, I'm not too afraid that Try 17 will top it ;) . I think the reviewer is probably right in saying that EJW was trying to find some post-LotR parts that let people know he isn't really 3'6" :p .

DH has come up in conversation here before--when looking at careers of other not-overly-tall actors. Besides "tiny, agile, funny, and touching" another thing the two have in common is versatility--which, IIRC from the earlier discussion, was thought to be especially important to actors who might find their roles somewhat limited because of their size. (I hope EJW continues in "versatile mode"--it's fun to see him trying different kinds of movies. Can't you just imagine him in a remake of Tootsie :D ?)

-----------

To Bridget, ainon, and Sheryl--C'mon, now, I'm not refusing to see Shawshank! I just haven't gotten around to it... :rolleyes: Yeah, when the movie first came out I avoided it because I loved the short story so much and was afraid the movie would be a disappointment. But I think I've had enough "practice" with FotR and TTT to be able to handle it :p . With FotR and TTT* around and screencappable, who has time for other movies ;) ??

*and Huck Finn, and Avalon, and CofF, and Ice Storm, and Oliver Twist, and Ash Wednesday, :p and Bumblebee...

Mariole

07-09-2003, 11:42 PM

I'm not in denial, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not in denial... :p

from tgshaw
Were any of the other characters' pre-Lorien cloaks swirly? ...Legolas', maybe.

Legolas had a cloak? :D (You can tell where I've been looking...)

Seriously, I've been meaning to post these caps (well, I have!). It serves as a cloak comparison of swirliness between Merry's and Frodo's cloaks. They're both doing the "bouncey" thing. Who here does acting? Is this some kind of warm up thing? You can see the hobbits (particularly Elijah) occasionally bouncing up and down before doing a take. They're doing it here, and I've also seen it in some of the Weathertop and other behind-the-scenes stuff:

http://home.ricochet.com/mdes/limages/bounce1.jpg

http://home.ricochet.com/mdes/limages/bounce2.jpg

Even though Merry is bouncing, his cloak appears to be made of a different material that is not as inherently swirly as Frodo's.

from shilohmm
Japanese anime has guys with cloaks on air conditioned ships, and their cloaks swirl mightily regardless....
LOL! I know just what you mean. I think the weave on the Lothlorien cloaks is ingenious. It's an open weave that lets a lot of air through so it swirls at the slightest movement, but textured enough to appear opaque.

------
On another topic, I finally saw Try 17 today! Thank you, Secret Benefactor! :k
I'd like to play it again before offering any kind of review, and also look over what other people have said (as I skipped all spoilers before).

Briefly, for myself, I will say that I was very pleased. The humor worked for me, and the script had a lot of understated human moments that were touching and a little sad. This was a pleasant surprise. Based on some of the screen caps folks had posted (those naughty cappers!), I was expecting more of a teenie movie with lots of skin and sexual situations. But there was enough drama and human interest in this to appeal to my adult taste, and made it seem like an "Elijah" movie to me (although not a "Frodo" movie -- Frodo is not remotely present in Jones Dillon).

ainon

07-10-2003, 05:25 AM

Thanks for the birthday wishes Goldie, Shireling and Viola. :k

Mariole, I'm eager to read your 'Try 17' review. Meanwhile, I'm pleased to see that your non-addictive capping tendencies has allowed you to produce a most swoon-worthy cloak comparison. If I may digress, I've been swooning for Frodo's hood and cloak from the first time I knew him. I loved him and I loved his cloak. I knew it'd be the bestest cloak and hood any book character could ever have. (okay, so I've also always had a thing for swirly cloaks and capes and trenchcoat tails ... anime cloaks are blow-away cool, but Darth Vader's was like waaaay cool) When MovieFrodo cloak came to life with such swirly perfection I knew that all things were bright and beautiful - made even sweeter now by Mariole's screencapped evidence that Frodo's cloak was superior to everyone else's. Now, my life will truly be complete if Elijah were to next star in a John Woo movie that'll have him wearing a long trenchcoat that'll billow dramatically behind him as he walks in slow motion through a strong gust of wind while some generic rock music plays on the soundtrack. swoooooon

<uncomfortable silence fills the faculty lounge>

Anyway ... wisely jumping quickly back on-topic ... it so happens, Mariole, that the scene you capped was recorded for posterity in E-Online's first LOTR location report (http://www.eonline.com/Features/Specials/Lordrings/Location/000112.html). Quoting from this page (http://www.eonline.com/Features/Specials/Lordrings/Location/000112d.html) to answer the bouncy question:

Jackson brings the actors onto the set and explains the scene. The Fellowship are surprised by elven arrows, which fly past them to attack the goblins behind. Mortensen stands in close up to the camera, so as to seem bigger, while Bloom stands on a box with his bow aimed at the goblins. Bean's seven-foot-tall stunt double stands in for Boromir. Of course, there are no arrows--they'll be digitally added later by computer--so the actors must mime the arrows flying past. Jackson, a hands-on director, demonstrates the movements he wants. Wood asks if the arrows will mess up his hair. They rehearse, then go for the first take. The crew blows leaves onto the scene with the wind machine. "And...Action!"

The first shoot goes well. Assistants cover the actors with umbrellas and splatter them with more mud. Jackson wants Mortensen to act more surprised, as if an arrow has just gone right past his nose. The actors talk and joke among themselves, except for Mortensen, who broods mysteriously off to one side. The second take begins. Umbrellas disappear, the wind machine starts up, Wood jogs up and down on the spot to appear out of breath, and Legolas raises his bow and arrow. "And... Action!"

You can read all the reports here: http://www.eonline.com/Features/Specials/Lordrings/contents_location.html :cool:

-------------

tgshaw, okay, I believe you. You'll watch Shawshank Redemption soon. Not just because it's only one of the best movies ever made alongside LOTR and 'Finding Nemo' :D . Prisons ... they're very cappable, you know? Very. And Elijah was a juvenile delinquent in 'Homicide'. There's a cappable correlation there. There is.

-----------------

Originally posted by shilohmm
While I'm not opposed to throwing Blossom collage bunnies, I thought the angsty one particularly appropriate for ainon, since she and Ariel are the only ones who match my obsessive angst appreciation. :p

Yeah. :D

Nate never gets enough cap time, does he, the poor kid? He was never that angsted-up. :p I'm direct linking these from http://www.photobucket.com, another free image hosting site - the simplest I've seen to date. Aside from testing that the links work, I'm also providing Mariole with reasons not to succumb to further cap addiction by wanting to match the appropriate froshadows to these. Aren't I nice? :D

http://www.photobucket.com/albums/0603/ainon/055bd913.jpg

http://www.photobucket.com/albums/0603/ainon/d59fb116.jpg

http://www.photobucket.com/albums/0603/ainon/3f7bf037.jpg
http://www.photobucket.com/albums/0603/ainon/e563fff1.jpg

Brunhild

07-10-2003, 06:58 AM

tgshaw--Now you are explicitely, if facetiously, suggesting a remake of Tootsie with EJW :cool:. Were the American vision of a green jumper and the improvement of the Kholodnaja comparison preparatory subliminal messages? :D. Dustin Hoffman played a character called Mumbles in Dick Tracy.

tgshaw

07-10-2003, 08:09 AM

Originally posted by Brunhild
tgshaw--Now you are explicitely, if facetiously, suggesting a remake of Tootsie with EJW :cool:. Were the American vision of a green jumper and the improvement of the Kholodnaja comparison preparatory subliminal messages? :D.
Subliminal even to myself they were so subliminal :D ! But, yes, I think I suggested the Tootsie remake back in that earlier DH discussion. Also mentioned previously--and this one has nothing to do with height ;) --IMHO Elijah would shine in some of the roles Jimmy Stewart played... isn't it about time for remakes of Harvey (oh, would love to see EJW in that with his deadpan perfect-timing comedy talent!!) or Rear Window? (Maybe Vertigo for those who want the trench coat possibilities ;) ?) We could leave It's a Wonderful Life alone, methinks :) --but if someone would be brave enough to make a film of The Grapes of Wrath using Steinbeck's original ending... :cool: .

Dustin Hoffman played a character called Mumbles in Dick Tracy.
...and the only reason for recent Nemo viewing among Facultiers is to check out Pixar animation capabilities... :p

from mariol
Legolas had a cloak? (You can tell where I've been looking...)
...and where I wasn't :p . There was that "dress cloak" at the Council, which had so much swirly potential that it couldn't be used (imagine that thing flipping around the circle of Council goers!).

Re Frodo's cloak--beginning with the first time I saw it clearly in promo pics, I've loved that two-button closure thingie. So practical for keeping out the cold wind and a bit dashing as well. I kind of like the fact that in the movie Frodo has a bit more stylish flare than his hobbit companions--the back view of his party waistcoat says it all :) . IMHO this is perfectly in line with the book--Frodo's been "trained" by Bilbo after all, but has enough taste to tone it down some. ;)

[Will try for an attachment of said waistcoat on this post.]

Interesting bit on the bouncing... so even Elijah borrows a page from "method acting" occasionally, eh? ;)

Bridget Chubb

07-10-2003, 08:16 AM

Originally posted by tgshaw
To Bridget, ainon, and Sheryl--C'mon, now, I'm not refusing to see Shawshank! I just haven't gotten around to it... :rolleyes: Yeah, when the movie first came out I avoided it because I loved the short story so much and was afraid the movie would be a disappointment. But I think I've had enough "practice" with FotR and TTT to be able to handle it :p .

Woohoo!:D :D :D

I'm going to hold you to that, tg.;) ainon, I'm thinking we're going to need a Shawshank thread in the movie forum pretty soon.:D D'you want to make it or shall I?

Personally I thought Arwen's velvety purple TTT cloak was beautiful. Not incredibly practical, though - the hood didn't even go all the way up to her forehead.:rolleyes: But Frodo does get some nice cloak action, and I like his nice green pre-Lorien one too.:)

tgshaw

07-10-2003, 08:32 AM

Just had to drop back in and say "Hi!" to all the Faculty lurkers out there :) . In the time it took me to hit the "Refresh" button and read Bridget's post, the party waistcoat pic was downloaded 4 times :p ... Now, if it was one person downloading 4 copies, please don't tell me :rolleyes: --let me live in the illusion ;) .

P.S. to screencappers: I've gotten an email from a website visitor who wants to know what program I use for screencapping--I think she wants to get started on the addiction herself :p . Knowing that my ol' WinDVD is bottom tier, and does take a bit of aspect ratio manipulating, I hate to just mention that program to her. What programs have others found useful?

Mariole

07-10-2003, 09:32 AM

Oh, no! A screencapping discussion, and I must go into the lab and work all day. *screams *

I don't have an addiction, I don't, I don't have an addiction...

Tg, I use the "bottom tier" method which I learned from you off this board, with an 85% vertical skew adjustment for widescreen caps. I'd love to hear about other capping methods -- in a purely intellectual way.

Ainon, you are too cruel! The comparison possibilities for dear Nate are rushing through my head. Oh, well, at least I'll have something to think about in the lab while the software loads ... on machine after machine...

Oh, and my old BF made a Darth Vader cloak one Halloween that had great swirling action. Of course, his was made of polyester...

tgshaw

07-11-2003, 12:46 PM

Where isss everyone, Preciousss?? :confused: :(

nurse

07-11-2003, 01:46 PM

Catching up here is a welcome relief ! (to a life that has gotten all too real these last 3 weeks):

It sounds like a bad play about unexpected death, long-lasting infirmity, loss and grief. Tuesday night I helped scatter the ashes of my father-in-law, Wednesday I said goodbye to my severely Alzheimer-affected mother-in-law, Thursday morning I left their soon-to-be-sold home in the Colorado mountains, transported my uncle's old and sick dog and got on a plane home.
Fortunately I married into a wonderful and very close family.

Thanks, that was cathartic, back to the fun of fiction angst and geekiness!!

whiteling

07-11-2003, 02:11 PM

(((((nurse))))),

oh dear..., but it's good to see you back here! :k

Goldenberry

07-11-2003, 04:15 PM

{{{nurse}}} What a time you've had. Jumping back into the geeky fun sounds like good medicine right now.

TORN currently has a link to Amazon.com, where they are taking pre-orders for 'All I Want', aka 'Try Seventeen'. It comes out on video and DVD in the US on September 16. The cover looks very nice. Unfortunately I can't post it here from stupid retarded work computer.:rolleyes:

peaceweaver, I sure hope your copy arrives waaaay before then!:eek: :( :rolleyes:

Bridget Chubb

07-11-2003, 04:52 PM

Here's the "Try 17" cover:

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B0000AKCJO.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

((((Nurse))))

peaceweaver

07-11-2003, 05:13 PM

Ohh, but the news that it will be possible for me to purchase Try 17 (in the States!) is good! I like the cover (though I still prefer the original title.) Can't wait to see this film. The US Postal Service has failed me in my earlier attempts to obtain it. At least it is being released here, which I had begun to doubt! :)

(((((nurse)))))

Hobmom

07-11-2003, 05:16 PM

Ooh! Ooh! Ooh! Bounce, bounce, bounce!!!!

Hopping over merrily to Amazon to pre-order!!!!

ainon

07-11-2003, 07:41 PM

((((nurse)))))

tg, now if your avatar ain't one of the odder angles for a Frodo cap ... :eek: :p To answer your question about the screencapping programme: I have PowerDVD. Screencapping is just a matter of clicking on a button or pressing the 'c' key on the keyboard. Great stuff for frame-by-frame caps and so far I haven't needed to adjust anything in terms of aspect ratio thingy - the fact that I am lazy may be an additional factor to consider in that, though. :D I also have an image viewer/sorter/managing programme called ACDSee, which allows me several methods to screencapture anything on screen. Took some figuring out but I finally got it to screencap Real Media, Windows Media Player and Quicktime videos too.

Which bring us to this: http://www.warofthering.net/downloads/TTT-dvdAnnounceKit/Qt_movs/ from www.warofthering.net . You'll want to check out Sizzle_CD.mov. It's a NewLine ad for retailers and it's pretty cool. I capped these shots that would be of specific interest to us. ;)

http://www.photobucket.com/albums/0603/ainon/6936a1a9.jpg

http://www.photobucket.com/albums/0603/ainon/7e07a3ae.jpg

http://www.photobucket.com/albums/0603/ainon/57edf748.jpg

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I watched 'Terminator 3' last night. Not too bad. At least better than expected :p and I liked that the movie had the guts to end the way it did. I couldn't help but wonder what it'd be like if Edward Furlong had reprised the John Connor role; he was a talented kid actor. IMO as good as that other kid we always talk about here - Elijah Wood.

Sheryl - about 'Hulk': I thought it was cool. There was a lot of Angst. Eric Bana spends a lot of time looking Angsty. The Hulk looked the way he should look IMO, and he had a lot of pathos and stuff. And Angst. There were a lot of still shots of inanimate life forms growing on inanimate objects, reaffirming that this is an Ang Lee movie. Did I mention there was a lot of Angst? No scientific explanation for the Spandex quality of those purple pants though. :confused:

Bridget -- I'll let you do the honour for Shawshank. :k But would that distract us from our task to subliminally keep the pressure on tgshawshank here? :D

-------------------

For the linguistically-inclined, we have Decipher trading cards reprinted in Elvish Tengwar alphabet (http://www.decipher.com/lordoftherings/cardlists/anthology-fotr/index.html).

For us in this thread, we have this card:

http://www.decipher.com/lordoftherings/cardlists/anthology-fotr/images/LOTR-WR02102.jpg

Mariol, hope you'll get your rest this weekend so that you may resume your capping 'hobby' to which you're not addicted to.

take care, nurse. :k

tgshaw

07-11-2003, 09:44 PM

Originally posted by ainon
tg, now if your avatar ain't one of the odder angles for a Frodo cap ... :eek: :p
Well, I do try for variety, y'know ;) . But we did talk about this one recently--it's when Frodo is telling Sam it's time they got going after seeing the Southron army. Frodo's in the process of standing up, and leaning over a bit to talk to Sam.

ainon--thanks for the info on the "Sizzle" site and the computer programs; I've been holding off on answering the email question, hoping I'd get some suggestions. IIRC, PowerDVD is the one Ariel uses, too. Never heard of ACDSee, but it sounds like something to check out (Not for me, right now, though... my software acquisition is in the direction of website development these days).

----------

I'm too tired right now to post anything that would involve spoilers ;) , so I'll just say I watched Try 17 tonight and liked it. Liked it a lot better than I thought I would. Truly liked it (as opposed to being able to find excuses for Elijah's participation in it, which is what I'd been afraid would happen). :) :) The U.S. release date is about what I expected--figured the cable station had paid for the honor of having several weeks of "premiering" it before it was released otherwise.

I've got a busy weekend ahead--a write-up on Try 17, updating my horrendously outdated amazon.com links (I hadn't even gotten the TTT pre-order links up :eek: , and now will have to add Try 17), and "test-driving" free trial downloads of two website editing programs... along with all the stuff I shoud be dong away from the computer but somehow never quite get around to :rolleyes: .

---------------

(((nurse))) (((your relatives)))

shilohmm

07-11-2003, 11:40 PM

(((((nurse)))))

Fictional angst is always to be prefered to the real thing. :(

Originally posted by ainon

Sheryl - about 'Hulk'.. [CLIP]No scientific explanation for the Spandex quality of those purple pants though. :confused:

That, and I always wondered how they ended up purple - in the comic, at any rate, Banner wasn't usually wearing purple before the transformation. Obviously, I need to see this movie.

tgshaw,
I'm encouraged that you liked Try 17, but you haven't answered the most important question - is there Angst? :D shireling's review in the Hugs thread implied there might be, but she didn't say so straight out.

Ash Wednesday spoilers here to end

I watched Ash Wednesday tonight. Hubby said, "Well, it wasn't that bad - lots of angst." Then he looked at me and said, "What, the wrong character's angsty?" But it's not even that. I think I could buy Ed Burns as an angsty character, if he played a character I remotely cared about in a movie that made a bit of sense. Waaaaay too many loose ends in this flick, and way too much going on with guys who're totally uninteresting.

I kind of think that EW's character isn't supposed to be that brainy, that the whole college thing was because the guy was not cut out for going into "the family business" rather than because he was exceptionally smart. OTOH, I have known guys who got good grades in school who had very little common sense. Matter of fact, I've known some Mensa members who were none-too-bright when it came to people and applying logic to everyday life, so I guess I can buy that he could have gone to college. But he was just a one star in the common sense department, and maybe even no stars in the street smarts category. I might give Burn's character two stars in street smarts if I was feeling generous that day - man, he does some dumb stuff in this movie!

EW's performance was kind of uneven for me - when he first showed I felt like he was just walking through the part, but later I bought into it. Although I'm probably a "soft touch" when it comes to EW's acting. ;)

I think Burns wanted Sean to look young and innocent. The character's written as an innocent, y'know? While most of the other characters are supposed to look hardened and old for their years, he's not supposed to come off hardened and all that - for Pete's sake, he doesn't even know what business his dad and brother are in! I think the fact that EW looked so much younger than his brother and even his wife is more Ed Burns hit-you-over-the-head symbolism. But since so many viewers dismissed Sean as a thug they didn't get it. :p Or has someone made this point before?

I got extremely tired of the swearing. I normally have a high tolerance for that sort of thing. And what's with all these Irish accents? How many first generation Irish are there hanging out in... where are we, the Bronx? I'm never any too clear on the NY buroughs. The opening, recap of the opening and closing scenes made me really miss Homicide:Life in the Streets. Do other Ed Burns movies use these techniques to better effect?

And Brunhild's right, it's much more interesting without any sound. ;)

Sheryl

Bridget Chubb

07-12-2003, 01:00 AM

Originally posted by ainon
Bridget -- I'll let you do the honour for Shawshank. :k But would that distract us from our task to subliminally keep the pressure on tgshawshank here? :D

Nah, we'll just put subliminal links in our sigs.;) Or nice big colorful ones that no one will be able to ignore...:p

Sheryl! All that to say about "Ash Wednesday," and not one bad word about the walking?? I'm disappointed.:( :p

tg, I use PowerDVD, too - I stumbled onto the screencapping ability by accident ("Hey, what's this button do?"):rolleyes: and love it because, as ainon said, it's incredibly easy.

That TTT ad for the retailers was awesome.:D Am I the only one who thought it was hilarious? "Sequels drive sales!" Woohoo!

tgshaw

07-12-2003, 09:30 AM

Originally posted by shilohmm
tgshaw,
I'm encouraged that you liked Try 17, but you haven't answered the most important question - is there Angst? shireling's review in the Hugs thread implied there might be, but she didn't say so straight out.
I almost cried a couple of times, which is a big deal for me because I don't cry at movies--books, yes, movies, no. Not even at the LotR movies, although the end of RotK may change that (given that the book version is my #1 guaranteed sob producer, no matter how often I read it).

Regarding Angst in Try 17: A teaser more than a spoiler, but I'll give a warning here for anyone trying to totally avoid knowing anything about the movie...

Anyway, in Try 17 the first part of the movie IMHO has fairly typical I'm-17-and-don't-fit-anywhere angst (in the dictionary meaning of angst), which does help in character development but doesn't give much in the way of KD-defined Angst, if you take my meaning. OTOH, as the story moves along and we get more into specific events/relationships and get to know Jones better as a specific person, the angst becomes less generic and more life-affecting, so that towards the end we grow into some genuine Angst. By the time he sticks his head out the window and screams... [Hey, I said this was a teaser ;) . ]

I do have to say there was one event fairly early in the movie that if I hadn't known anything about the plot beforehand would have been a huge Angst moment for me, but since I did know about the particular plot point it just gave me a wave of sympathy.

Not surprisingly, Franka's character has some Angst to deal with, too. I was going to mention another Angsty character, but that Angst was so unexpected (to me, at least) I'm not going to ruin it :) .

I was expecting a comedy. Although there are definitely some funny bits, I wouldn't categorize it that way. Which IMHO made it a better movie--but anyone who watches it expecting (and wanting) a yuck-a-minute, or "jokes," will be disappointed.

BTW, there is some good EJW-brand subtlety easily picked up by our trained eyes :p -- it's useful to know about watching the muscles around the eyes and on either side of the nose ;) .

End Try 17 teaser info

Moving into...

Ash Wednesday spoilers

from Sheryl
I kind of think that EW's character isn't supposed to be that brainy, that the whole college thing was because the guy was not cut out for going into "the family business" rather than because he was exceptionally smart.
Did I miss something here :confused: ? Sean going to college has been mentioned before, but I don't remember it. IIRC, it might have been "in the family plan" for him to go to college, but his need to disappear sent him to those wheat fields in Texas instead. Or had he already been in college when he had to leave?

OTOH, I have known guys who got good grades in school who had very little common sense. Matter of fact, I've known some Mensa members who were none-too-bright when it came to people and applying logic to everyday life, so I guess I can buy that he could have gone to college.
In the last two places I've worked, the Ph.D. Syndrome is a recognized disorder (by everyone except the Ph.D.'s :p ). Someone can have wonderful common sense, but as soon as that Ph.D. is finished it goes out the window; I've seen the change occur overnight. It can occasionally kick in even before the dissertation's finished.

There are some people who seem to be immune--we have one Ph.D. in our department (a statistician, no less :eek: ) who is one of the most down-to-earth, common-sense people I've ever known. No conclusive research on the cause of this immunity--although she's the only Ph.D. I've known who's read Tolkien and seen the LotR movies, I don't know if that's the cause of her immunity or an effect of it. Ah, the unanswered questions of research :p .

Of course, any Ph.D.'s who frequent this thread are immune, by definition ;) .

I might give Burn's character two stars in street smarts if I was feeling generous that day - man, he does some dumb stuff in this movie!
IMHO, everybody in this movie does some dumb stuff, with the possible exception of Grace (and Little Sean :rolleyes: ) -- Francis, Sean, the priest, the bad guys who ended up dead three years earlier, the bad guys who end up dead later... probably more if I thought about it.

I still chalk this up to Ed thinking he could do everything himself. I've learned (through experience, believe me :rolleyes: ) that it's invaluable to have someone(s) able and willing to say, "You know this bit right here? It's just plain stupid!" The multitide of character and plot problems in this movie make me think Ed didn't have anyone to do that (or didn't listen to them). It's easy to be blind to those things in your own writing if you have a particular story you want to tell.

...for Pete's sake, he doesn't even know what business his dad and brother are in!
I suppose it's too late to add anything to the "questions to ask EJW" list, but I'd love to know how Elijah understood the character. I think the way Sheryl's described him is the way Ed saw him, but IMHO it would also be possible to interpret him as someone who's smart enough to not let on that he knows everything--which would make the shootings at the beginning at least somewhat reconcilable with the character. I really wonder what Elijah's take on him was.

End of Ash Wednesday spoilers

-----------

Thanks for the additional DVD program info, Bridget. :) I think I'd feel comfortable recommending PowerDVD to someone after reading the comments here.

from Bridget
"Sequels drive sales!" Woohoo!
Heh... Wonder how many copies of The Hobbit it's "sequel" has sold :D ? Any I've bought, for sure.

[But, of course, implying that TTT and RotK are sequels of FotR deserves a few trouts--one of them from JRRT, I'd guess :p .]

-------------

Edit: Just noticed--Mariole, congratulations on 100 posts :cool: !

nurse

07-12-2003, 11:53 AM

Originally posted by Bridget Chubb
That TTT ad for the retailers was awesome.:D Am I the only one who thought it was hilarious? "Sequels drive sales!" Woohoo! [/B]
Which was immediately followed by Arwen's "there is still hope!" (to sell the FOTR). ;)

Let me get this straight:
Witness is available now through yesasia
TTT (TR) will be out in August (sans the amusing Malay titles ;))
Try 17/all i want will be available in Sept
TTT (SEE) will be out in November
ROTK IN THEATRES IN DECEMBER!!
Do I hear an October release for Sunshine?
Is the ice slowly melting for EW fans?

I love angst, I love delight, I love cloak-swishing and half-blinks but my true weakness is Frolijah going in and out of character--can someone please tell me where on the FOTR TR DVD second disc to find the filming the tree roots scene, I've had no luck.

Also, does anyone still have the (Jay Leno?) interview with EW re-enacting the Time magazine cover? By the time I saw that link in here it was too late.

Finally, someone please tell me the English translation of Gollum's "he didn't see when my child died" from page 140. I can't remember and it's driving me crazy.

tg-great Balrog essay! I'm finally starting the understand the concept of subcreation. Tolkein was so cool!

Bridget-thanks for reminding me of the ROTFLMAO Ash Wednesday discussions about walking, etc.

Maeg-any bugs in PJ's office these days?

Thanks to all for the great caps and links! I'm soaking it all up.
I can see in my future the purchase of a DVD Rom :cool:
I'd love to contribute pictorily to the Faculty.

Thanks for all the hugs!

edit: just saw tg's: re Ash Wednesday and college, I mentioned it and, since I'd just rented it, I can't check if I was just confused and made that up or if there was maybe something said about it in one of the scenes in Frances' apt.

shilohmm

07-12-2003, 02:12 PM

Originally posted by Bridget Chubb
Sheryl! All that to say about "Ash Wednesday," and not one bad word about the walking?? I'm disappointed.:( :p

I'd been warned about the walking - I was cleaning the living room at those points. :p I did get a wee tad weary of the short piano tune, though.

tg,
Your update on Try 17 is most encouraging. :)

Originally posted by tgshaw

Did I miss something here? Sean going to college has been mentioned before, but I don't remember it. IIRC, it might have been "in the family plan" for him to go to college, but his need to disappear sent him to those wheat fields in Texas instead. Or had he already been in college when he had to leave?

No, you remember rightly; I was referring to the fact that dad always planned to send Sean off to college. I was discussing the fact that everyone believed college was a possibility for Sean, that he was apparently "the smart one" in the family dynamics.

I agree that the main problem with the movie is Ed Burns not having anyone to "check" him. Honest and talented editors are invaluable. I was listening to Spy Kids II with director's commentary yesterday, and Rodriguez was discussing how low on the totem pole writers are - and how a director, particularly a writer/director in a low budget film, "Can get away with anything." This could explain the complaints of some actors who signed up on low budget films with great scripts, then when they actually filmed it it was a totally different script...

originally posted by nurse
Also, does anyone still have the (Jay Leno?) interview with EW re-enacting the Time magazine cover? By the time I saw that link in here it was too late.

That wasn't Jay Leno - it might've been Charlie Rose? I'd recommend checking out Elve's site. She's got nearly everything. She used to rotate "active" media files, so you could only download certain ones, but it looks like right now everything listed is currently available.

http://www.frodoandsam.net/film/multimedia/video.html

Be sure and download to disc!

Sheryl

edit:

Originally posted by Bridget Chubb
That TTT ad for the retailers was awesome. Am I the only one who thought it was hilarious? "Sequels drive sales!" Woohoo!
originally posted by nurse
Which was immediately followed by Arwen's "there is still hope!" (to sell the FOTR).

Yes, and they characterize the people who're going to buy the DVD in the first month by using Gollum attacking Frodo and Sam, saying "Where is it?"

:D

Sheryl

Mariole

07-12-2003, 05:14 PM

100 posts! I didn't even notice. Go, me!

Great list of upcoming EW flicks, nurse. I believe ESOTSM is a November release. The tree roots filming scene is on the FOTR TR DVD in the featurette on the Ringwraiths. There's another version of this on the FOTR EE disc 4 in the Cameras of Middle Earth, Wooded Road segment. Let me know if you can't find the Times magazine reenactment of EW holding up the Ring online at the site Sheryl mentioned; I've got it somewhere.

Try 17 made me teary a couple of places, too, tg. *sniff!* It's nice to see the DVD selling well. This morning its Amazon sales rank was 91. Right now it's 52. Go, EW! (Just for comparison, the TTT EE is #2. Ash Wednesday is #6,424. The Faculty is #1,637).

And now for something completely different ...

Nat angst!

This is a severely overlooked area of research. Thank you ainon for calling attention to this blatant omission in the Faculty annals, and for providing source material for a most illuminating study.

Analysis: Nat is frequently depicted as a basically happy, care-free kid. But is that the entire story? This photographic analysis might shed a little more light on the Nat Cooper story. Observe:

Nat is startled by an unannounced visitor in his own home. (Fortunately the intruder turns out to be a friend.)

http://home.ricochet.com/mdes/limages/nathuh.jpg

Nat is hiding something that could get him into a lot of trouble ... but for how long will his secret be safe?

http://home.ricochet.com/mdes/limages/natsafe.jpg

Nat flees from "the dead guy"...

http://home.ricochet.com/mdes/limages/natrun.jpg

Nat and his best friend are scolded and bullied by someone who should be protecting them.

http://home.ricochet.com/mdes/limages/natstrider.jpg

http://home.ricochet.com/mdes/limages/natsam.jpg

Nat and his pal fight off a creature that attacks them from below.

http://home.ricochet.com/mdes/limages/natwatcher.jpg

Nat listens nervously, hoping against hope that nothing dreadful will occur. (It does.)

http://home.ricochet.com/mdes/limages/natlistens.jpg

Nat is seized by a creature whose life has been unnaturally prolonged. His buddy helps free him.

http://home.ricochet.com/mdes/limages/natgrab.jpg

Nat is freaked out when he unexpectedly encounters a lady in a nice dress in a designated no-talking zone.

http://home.ricochet.com/mdes/limages/natglads.jpg

I could go on, but I believe the point's been made. Nat "Angst" Cooper can indeed hold his own with one of the most oppressed characters in modern fiction. You saw it here first, ladies. A new tragic hero has been identified. Go, Nat! :D

nurse

07-12-2003, 07:19 PM

Mariole and Ainon: LOL! What quintessential collaborative Faculty research!

By the way. I found the interview I was looking for (Access Hollywood, link from p 45). Thanks!

Bridget Chubb

07-13-2003, 01:05 AM

Mariole, those Froshadowings are fantastic.:D Thank you!:k (You've definitely made your point, but if you feel like going on, hey, don't let that stop you!:D ) And to think I watched that whole movie and completely missed all the angst...:o

Sheryl, you skipped the walking? Oh, you cheater.:p Why didn't I think of that?:rolleyes: :p

tgshaw

07-13-2003, 08:35 AM

Mariole--Wow! What did we ever do without you :confused: ?! You sure have a great eye for Froshadowings :cool: .

The pics are fantastic, but it's the "matching" captions that had me ROTFLMAO! :D :D :D How do you do that ;) ?

ainon

07-13-2003, 09:13 AM

Oh my goodness. I have been underestimating and overlooking Nat's angstfulness all this while! Thank you, Mariole, for putting me right. I see now that Nat's existence was one of neverending angstiness. Your research yields no other possible conclusion. Nonetheless I'm sure we all agree that further research is warranted. I'll check my capping data and see what other dark corners we might have missed - or do you have your own capping source? ;)

I LOVE your captions! :k

Meanwhile you've made me think. So what follows is entirely your fault. :p If I might have missed such crucial details about Nat, what may I have missed about ... Tom??!

1. It's not angst or anything, but he's got love issues like Jones does:

http://www.photobucket.com/albums/0603/ainon/7b4698d1.jpg

2. It's not exactly angst either, but he's got his feisty moments:

http://www.photobucket.com/albums/0603/ainon/febcaf26.jpg

And, well, never mind duty to task and all, that was about all I could endure. :rolleyes:

Originally posted by nurse
someone please tell me the English translation of Gollum's "he didn't see when my child died" from page 140. I can't remember and it's driving me crazy.

Uh ... that was my fault for perverting things, but all I can remember right now is Gollum was reciting this bit of poetry, and it was pretty cool. And um, my DVD isn't right here with me right now for me to heck it out. Someone, help!

tg, you gave a very modest angst analysis for 'Try 17'. :D No spoilers here, just a picture so Sheryl (and all those quiet Angst Appreciators out there -- c'mon, we know you're out there) may see that the various degrees of Jones angst also includes the favourite PhysicalAngst indicator of all time: arm in a sling, bonus split lip, and a hospital environment.

http://www.photobucket.com/albums/0603/ainon/d4fba0a0.jpg

Sheryl, you skipped Ed's walking? :mad: Now that's just uncalled for! How you could ignore the step-by-step pathos he was meandering through in subplots? How each stride brought him closer to his end, which could have been avoided if not for his pride? Hey, you think Ed had a theme song for walking? Like the way Dory has a swimming song in 'Finding Nemo'? Only of course Ed's song would go, "Keep walking, keep walking, keep walking walking walking ... "

--------------------------

To repent for posting Tom Thumb images and for putting Dory's swimming song into everyone's head, I'll share my favourite as-they-were-shooting screencap.

http://home.villagephotos.com/2003-7/13204/a'in/AragornFrodo.jpg

I don't actually know why I like it, I just do, but just so it won't seem like I'm just gratuitously posting pics, I'll put forth an important making-of question - so, is Elijah on his knees, or is Viggo on a box? ;)

http://home.villagephotos.com/2003-7/13204/a'in/1-AragornFrodo.jpg

Hobmom

07-13-2003, 02:35 PM

Hey you cap mavens who HAVE their DVD roms...(I'm still waiting for mine to come. Hope the seller at Ebay was legit!)

Love the little cap snippits of Try Seventeen.

Are you going to be posting more? Huh? Pretty please!

If my DVD drive ever shows up I'll post plenty I promise!

Mariole

07-13-2003, 03:08 PM

Oh, no, look what happened! I uncover the truth about Nat -- and suddenly the Movie That Shall Not be Named shows up! Shall I run, shall I hide? (I'm better off than most, I believe; I heeded the warnings in this group, and have not viewed said video. Therefore my mind is unscarred. My deepest condolences to the rest of you.) :p

From Bridget Chubb
And to think I watched that whole movie and completely missed all the angst...
Yes, Bridget, I think that's the classic mistake with this movie. See, people are chuckling so hard during most of the Nat scenes that they overlook the underlying darkness that dogs almost his every step. Scenes that have yet to be displayed (also known as, "too shocking to be shown") could include:

* Nat "burning up" in the warehouse
* Nat's panic after Daniel's collapse (either one)
* a bewildered Nat sitting up in bed (can you say Rivendell?)
* Nat shrinking back in terror in the tree
* the escape/car chase
* the scream! (you know of what I speak ... at the end)

But alas, I cannot pursue this much further. I searched the internet for Forever Young caps yesterday to supplement ainon's potent starting batch, and a good number of angsty moments (such as those mentioned above) were left uncapped. I only have the movie on video, so I'm unable to cap anything myself. (Now, Try 17 I could do, when we're ready for it.)

Still, I'll do my best with what I've got. For your viewing pleasure, back by popular demand, it's:

Nat Cooper: the Angst Continues

Nat learns some shocking news over the dining table.

http://home.ricochet.com/mdes/limages/nattabl.jpg

Someone Nat admires rushes off on urgent business. Will Nat ever see him again?

http://home.ricochet.com/mdes/limages/natleft.jpg

Nat struggles to regain control after a terrifying experience.

http://home.ricochet.com/mdes/limages/natback.jpg

Nat's aged friend drops out of his life, just when Nat has come to rely on him.

http://home.ricochet.com/mdes/limages/natsad.jpg

A troubled Nat normally appreciates his friend's help ...

http://home.ricochet.com/mdes/limages/natpot.jpg

...but realizes that the friend is incapable of helping him at this time.

http://home.ricochet.com/mdes/limages/natroof.jpg

Okay, so these weren't as good a match as the first batch, but I couldn't resist casting Mel Gibson as Gollum -- the bucket=stew pot cracked me up. Ah, if only I could cap what I wished. We'd have Nat and Felix eating lembas in the treehouse, and Mom ruffling Nat's hair a la Boromir. Perhaps someday... Cheers, all.

nurse

07-13-2003, 07:03 PM

Mariole--You did all that without a FY DVD?
Definitely *not worthy*! But what compliment could top tgshaw's "how do you do that!"?

This is still my favorite (I thought it deserved to be on two pages ;)):

Nat is freaked out when he unexpectedly encounters a lady in a nice dress in a designated no-talking zone.

http://home.ricochet.com/mdes/limages/natglads.jpg

Originally posted by mariol3b3
Ah, if only I could cap what I wished. We'd have Nat and Felix eating lembas in the treehouse, and Mom ruffling Nat's hair a la Boromir. Perhaps someday...

Ooh a fantasy screencapping program...the possibilities are endless...we could have Mikey II throwing Aragorn off a cliff, oops I guess we need him to distract Sauron..."you make up the rest"

Basking in your talent....nurse.

ainon

07-14-2003, 09:53 AM

Nat Cooper: the Angst Continues

Dear Mariole,

You asked? ;)

edit: removing direct image links to save on my bandwidth. please click on URL to see image

* Nat "burning up" in the warehouse

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-7/280194/Natburns.jpg
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-7/280194/Natburning.jpg

* Nat's panic after Daniel's collapse

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-7/280194/Natpanic.JPG

* a bewildered Nat sitting up in bed

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-7/280194/NatRivendell.jpg

* Nat shrinking back in terror in the tree

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-7/280194/Nattreeshrink.jpg

* the escape/car chase

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-7/280194/Natescape.jpg

* the scream!

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-7/280194/Natscream.jpg

* eating lembas

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-7/280194/Natlembas.jpg

* Mom ruffling Nat's hair a la Boromir

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-7/280194/Nathair.JPG

* bonus cap: onionated Nat angst

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-7/280194/Nattear.jpg

Absolutely loving all your work, Mariole. :D You're amazing.

-----------

p.s. Hobmom, I didn't forget about Jones!

http://www.photobucket.com/albums/0603/ainon/43413cc4.jpg

tgshaw

07-14-2003, 10:17 AM

Edit: Yoicks! That last set of Nat pics went up while I was posting, and I'm at work so can't sit here with pictures on my computer screen :rolleyes: :( . I'm sure I'll sneak a peek later, though ;) .

Originally posted by ainon
...but all I can remember right now is Gollum was reciting this bit of poetry, and it was pretty cool. And um, my DVD isn't right here with me right now for me to heck it out. Someone, help!
I don't know the exact line, but Gollum's reciting the barrow wight's poem--from "Fog on the Barrow Downs"--much to the delight of many purists who'd hated to see that scene omitted from FotR. (And no one knew ahead of time that the poem would be used, which made it even better. :) )

I expected the barrow wight to be deleted--like Tom Bombadil, the scene can be skipped without much damage to the story (hmmm... and, come to think of it, you can't really have the barrow scene without ol' Tom--that is, if you want the hobbits to come out of it alive :rolleyes: ). So I understand why it wasn't there, but it would have been a fantastic Frolijah moment--perhaps even better than the stand at the ford would have been :( .

tg, you gave a very modest angst analysis for 'Try 17'. :D No spoilers here, just a picture so Sheryl (and all those quiet Angst Appreciators out there -- c'mon, we know you're out there) may see that the various degrees of Jones angst also includes the favourite PhysicalAngst indicator of all time: arm in a sling, bonus split lip, and a hospital environment.
...and don't forget the black eye gained in the cause of chivalry (or... whatever). I confess to being almost exclusively a psychological/emotional angst maven--the physical doesn't do much for me unless the "inner" angst is present, too (they often come together, of course).

So, for the cause of inner angst, I did a really quick posting job before I came to work (no comments or choosing of which pics to use--I just slapped all the screencaps I had on the page--a method I'm sure no one will complain about ;) . There's an earlier occasion with Jones yelling out the window that's somewhat reminiscent of Mikey II's "No-o-o-o-o," but I really don't think we've seen a scream like this come out of Elijah before. The angst that's been gathering for years coming to a head in the reading of one letter:

http://www.members.tripod.com/afewwords_tgs/id185.htm

Jones also has a couple of "fabulous falls" and one case of almost tripping over his own feet, which IMHO would be harder to pull off than actually falling (seems to be one of Elijah's many talents :p ). There's one sequence I'd love to put right beside the corridor chase in CofF... when I get the chance :confused:

Hey, you think Ed had a theme song for walking? Like the way Dory has a swimming song in 'Finding Nemo'? Only of course Ed's song would go, "Keep walking, keep walking, keep walking walking walking ... "
Thankfully, Dory's song was tuneless enough that it didn't stay in my mind after the movie (is there a "relieved" smilie?).

When Ed's walking comes up in discussion, I always think of Steve Martin singing as he's walking down the sidewalk at the beginning of Roxanne: "I'm walking--down the street. And I'm thinking--'bout you and me..." (or something like that). A little catchier than Dory's song--considering I haven't watched the movie for several years and it still comes into my mind. :)

Mariole

07-14-2003, 10:59 AM

Ainon, you QUEEN! :D :D :D

LOL at these. I don't think you even need me to create comparison pics, since the Froshadowing is so obvious in most of these. Hysterical!

from nurse
Ooh a fantasy screencapping program...the possibilities are endless...we could have Mikey II throwing Aragorn off a cliff
Ooh, now you've got me going! You know, in the not-too-distant future, we'll probably be able to do this. Aren't there already recreations of various movies (Star Wars, IIRC?) where folks are distributing their version on the Internet? We could make the Fiesty!Fro version of LOTR! Complete with Fro!Kicks!Barrow-wight!Butt and Defiant!Fro!at-the!Ford (boy, these titles are hard to type, but you get the idea). We could put Arwen back at Helm's Deep as PJ had originally intended! The sky's the limit!

Later: Just saw tg's post. Off to quickly peruse her site because, well, I'm supposed to be working.

Also because I'm supposed to be working (actually, because I'm extremely weak), here's just one more Nat comparison pic, for fun.

A newly awakened Nat seeks important information from his friend.

http://home.ricochet.com/mdes/limages/natsit.jpg

Bridget Chubb

07-14-2003, 04:42 PM

Bridget pouts. Ainon, I can't see your pics.:( :mad: Dare I hope that the site's just overloaded on bandwidth and I'll be able to see them later?

I can see all the other pictures, though, and they're awesome.:D (With the possible exception of ainon's Movie-Which-Must-Not-Be-Named froshadowings...I think I'll refrain from commenting on those.;) Except to say that isn't Thumbelina supposed to wear flower petals or something? What's she doing in a turtleneck?:confused: )

And tgshawshank, thanks for your page of "Try 17" angst! Now I really can't wait to see it.:cool:

Mariole

07-14-2003, 10:37 PM

More Nat silliness ... for those of you who haven't yet had enough (... however unlikely that may be ...)

Nat is a helpless passenger as the pursuit closes in.

http://home.ricochet.com/mdes/limages/natpas.jpg

Nat is wounded ...

http://home.ricochet.com/mdes/limages/natwound.jpg

... and writhes in agony!

http://home.ricochet.com/mdes/limages/natag.jpg

Nat dashes across the street, hoping to find someone who can help him.

http://home.ricochet.com/mdes/limages/natdash.jpg

Nat cries out against the inevitable.

http://home.ricochet.com/mdes/limages/natcry.jpg

Nat rushes to the aid of his fallen friend.

http://home.ricochet.com/mdes/limages/natrush.jpg

Nat smiles through his tears.

http://home.ricochet.com/mdes/limages/natsmile.jpg

Hobmom

07-15-2003, 03:30 AM

Mariol- Love the Nat/Fros! Who woulda thunk about poor little Nat? Lij is the best! Let's face it! Even in minor roles as a wee, little child he Fro-shadowed! How great is that?!

Now....For those with "Try 17" and cap-potential.....(as I'm STILL waiting for my DVD drive/software) ......MORE PLEASE! Will repay with mucho-cappos!!!!!

Tg--- Love!!!! Really, really love The "scream"!!!

whiteling

07-15-2003, 03:39 AM

:confused: also here! Like Bridget I can't see your pictures, ainon. Except the last one with Jones. ???

Mariole, I love your caps - very, very amusing :) ! Please feel free to pursue with your profound research!
Can't write any more for the moment, hoping fervently the paroxysm of laughter will diminish... ;)

tgshaw

07-15-2003, 01:27 PM

For Hobmom :) and anyone else who doesn't mind something slightly spoilerish here's another page of Jones caps. No big plot spoilers, just some general comments.

Hope no one minds if I keep posting these as web pages. If I've done my math right (always a question where I'm concerned :rolleyes: ), I've got so much free webspace with my ISP that I might as well use it--and since I'm not using Moggy's bandwidth I feel freer to post more pics ;) :

http://home.earthlink.net/~screencaps/id18.html

Hobmom

07-15-2003, 02:20 PM

Sir Ian updated his site today. He is still busy being Gandalf in the reshoots in NZ and our lad is still down there too being Frodo!

Here's a bit of what Ian has to say as per Elijah-
This morning I saw a WETA stage-hand carrying a massive manicured set of spider claws which he was lugging toward Shelobs Lair, where Frodo, Sam and Gollum are still trudging their way toward Mount Doom.

And-I revisited the Gates of Mordor today , where The Mouth of Sauron once more threw down Frodos mithral vest. And Gandalf meets despair.

And-Much of this final activity has been observed by journalists the actors were expected to talk to a dozen of them from print media around the world plus a camera crew from Primetime Live who are making a documentary to be broadcast in USA about the time the final film emerges. Being interviewed takes time and care if it is to be worthwhile. But risking too big a distraction from the more important matter of acting we all were interviewed, at greatest length for New Lines electronic press kit, which will be distributed piecemeal to the hungry television and radio programmes wanting words direct from Middle-earth as it were.

And-Working a minimum 14 hours a day, six days a week _ and yet there¹s been time for company fun. The official farewell parties for the actors continue _ champagne and beer and a laudatory, funny speech from Peter and a presentation from Barrie Osborne of a producer¹s gift, a prop from the film, a sword, a mask, a memory. Then a four-minute movie is screened on a stretched sheet, half from the movies half from the blooper reel. When we said goodbye to Viggo the other day inside the Golden Hall of Edoras, the stunt crew, veterans with him of every bloody battle, danced the haka, a welcoming, challenging, life-enhancing Maori tradition. And then hobbits singing

And-On Saturday last, Shamsung and Elwood accompanied by Deep Sea Diver Boyd McIver took over the Good Luck bar off Cuba Mall in downtown rowdy Wellington where they d-jayed the night away. I found bopping to rap and hip-hop a bit tricky. But thats The Fellowship for you. Or rather, thats hobbits.

Also as to the great effort and care PJ is taking on ROTK-
I am happy to trust Peters eagle eyes. He is still averaging ten takes of each set up. He reminds us after each take what he wants of the characters and generally what he wants is information. There is a lot of plot in this third film, many threads to be gathered together. If the plot is not told through the characters, their actions and their words, an audience will not be moved. Return of the King will be part-weepy. Although everything is likely to be dubbed, Peter is only happy when he believes what he sees and understands what he hears. And then he will take one extra take. I wonder how often that is the take he uses in the finished film. The working rhythm is steady and unvaried, never hurried. There is always a sense that we will wait until everyone in every department of cast and crew is working harmoniously and at their peak. He is generous with his praise when hes happy. Achievement energises him. He is tired to look at, yet evidently indefatigable and as caring as ever for the task in hand to deliver the best film of the three, the one that will guarantee a classic status for the trilogy.

I SO cannot wait to see this!!!!!

Tg- Thanks for more Try 17 caps. Keep up the good work. Hint, hint!

ainon

07-15-2003, 07:42 PM

Originally posted by Bridget Chubb
Ainon, I can't see your pics.:( :mad: Dare I hope that the site's just overloaded on bandwidth and I'll be able to see them later?

I'm so sorry about that, guys. It's bandwidth overload. I'd minimised the sizes for those Nat pics but I guess he's so popular that my 5 MB/day at Village Photos is used up in mere hours! :p Please check back later, when my bandwidth for the day is restored again. But then Mariole's gone come through with her remarkable brilliance and froshadowed the best of them! :k

Originally posted by Mariol3b3
More Nat silliness ... for those of you who haven't yet had enough (... however unlikely that may be ...)

There's never such a thing as enough! :D I love how you came up with the "Nat is wounded ... ... and writhes in agony!" pair. My favourite favourite though is "Nat smiles through his tears". From onion-pain to one of the most beautiful scenes in FotR - how could I have missed that! What next, Mariole? Have we milked Nat's every angst? Or who next? I was kinda capping through some trailer and making-of scenes from 'Huck Finn' the other night ....

tg, thanks for the 'Try 17' pages. I really like the Scream Angst page. Nice. Angsty. The angst works for me in serial screencap format, as opposed to while I was watching the movie itself. :o I'm an all-kinds Angst Appreciator, but as you said, physical angst usually comes with the inner turmoil stuff anyway. Only thing is, physical angst doesn't usually require the best actor around, so there're more 'potentials' for physical angst. ;) Whereas emotional angst -- too much of it coming from a less than capable actor and it gets tiresome. Too stiff, and it doesn't work at all. It's tough to find an actor and a character who embody perfect physical *and* emotional angst with genuine finesse (how do you spell that word?) Elijah's Frodo, Huck, Mikey I, Barney, Nat even! ... ah, they're all perfect. :)

Hobmom, thanks for sharing those Sir Ian quotes!

RotK SPOILER

Especially this one: "I revisited the Gates of Mordor today , where The Mouth of Sauron once more threw down Frodos mithral vest. And Gandalf meets despair." --- YES! WooHoo! It's in! Yay! The best we've gotten as confirmation of Frodo-CU-Angst! Followed by PippinAngst! I'm sooo happy. Um ... I mean, oh dear, how upsetting. Poor Frodo. And how distressing it must be for poor Pippin.

END ROTK SPOILER COMMENT

This is all the Jones I have at the moment (I'm already at work). Pic quality isn't anything to shout about because I had to optimise it while uploading to the image storage site. Sorry about that. And for some forgotten reason I'm afraid he's sharing the spotlight there with sweet-but-surely-sadistic-Sean-hired-killer-in-the-making and Sean's brother Ed, who is not walking for change, but only because they're both together in a parked car. Ewww! Not parked in that way! They're brothers for goodness sakes!

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-1/93723/postFrodo.JPG

Mariole

07-15-2003, 07:59 PM

Hobmom, thanks for pulling out those interesting quotes! I feel as if progress is being made. (I'm chanting to myself, "I am not nervous, I am not nervous.")

from ainon
I'm sooo happy. Um ... I mean, oh dear, how upsetting. Poor Frodo. And how distressing it must be for poor Pippin.
:D Exactly!

Tg, so glad you're giving Try 17 the screen cap treatment. I think I'll play it again tonight and see if I can come up with some coherent thoughts.

Ainon, regarding "Who's next" -- I think you could show me any random picture and I'd come up with a Froshadow for it. I think it puts me in the arena of "seen this movie too many times!" (Not for myself, of course, but if an objective count could be made, the uninitiated could be frightened.)

Here's a superfluous Nat pic. Ainon's cap didn't need any explanation, but for those of you who couldn't see it because of band width, here it is!

Nat and his friend enjoy a golden treat.

http://home.ricochet.com/mdes/limages/nateat.jpg

tgshaw

07-15-2003, 08:39 PM

Yes, Hobmom, thanks for those Sir Ian quotes. And especially for the one ainon mentioned. Oh, yes, I've been hoping for that scene!!

Someone said awhile back (gee, how specific :rolleyes: ) that Sir Ian McK is the one cast member who cannot keep secrets. I wonder if there were any scenes they had to keep him away from during shooting :p ? He gave away the beginning of TTT (that it would be Gandalf's fall with the Balrog) but didn't mention it being Frodo's dream--which I'm so glad I didn't know ahead of time :) . What a wonderful surprise! I wonder if Sir Ian knew or if they kept him in the dark ;) ?

I'm definitely gearing up for some wonderfully geeky discussion of Try Seventeen--eyebrow acting, nostril acting, fabulous falls and near falls, whether the symbolism was too heavyhanded at a couple of places, angst variations, interesting lines, interesting scenes, how is Jones different from--or the same as-- Elijah's other roles, are we glad Elijah took this part, what about the other characters, what did I miss that other people caught? :cool: As soon as Mariole comes up with some coherent thoughts, can we start--huh? huh? can we? can we :p ? With appropriate spoiler warning, of course :) ... (Or should we wait until it's on TV or out on DVD? I could wait... I guess :( ... Y'know, for the good of the group... If I have to...)

nurse

07-15-2003, 08:43 PM

Mariole--please, don't stop! am loving it!

Hobmom-thanks for Ian's quotes, the anxiety is lessening and the giddy excitement is increasing for Return of the Hobbit, I mean King (I still think A's main purpose at this point is to distract Sauron) ;)

tg-I can't see the pics (just red x's) but the first few captions are making me "oh poor Jones!":(..... "oh such angst":).

I'm sick aren't I? But in good company :)

edit--tg you're killing me, where can I get my hands on Try 17?

tgshaw

07-16-2003, 07:26 AM

Originally posted by nurse
(I still think A's main purpose at this point is to distract Sauron) ;)
Well, of course! That's pure book canon :) ;) !! As Gandalf says during the Last Debate:
'His [Sauron's] doubt will be growing, even as we speak here. His Eye is now straining towards us, blind almost to all else that is moving. So we must keep it. Therein lies our hope. This, then, is my counsel. We have not the Ring. In wisdom or great folly it has been sent away to be destroyed, lest it destroy us. Without it we cannot by force defeat his force. But we must at all costs keep his Eye from his true peril. We cannot achieve victory by arms, but by arms we can give the Ring-bearer his only chance, frail though it be.'

tg-I can't see the pics (just red x's) but the first few captions are making me "oh poor Jones!":(..... "oh such angst":).
I hope that won't be a problem on the free space--there is a bandwidth limit there (and this thread draws more readers than we realize, I think). I might have to move the Try 17 pics over to the other site. But I think if it were a bandwidth problem, the whole site would be cut off.

But the pages are pretty image-intensive. Try the refresh button once or twice and see if more loads--especially (as I've learned with the free site) if you get white frames with no pics in them. I haven't run into the red x's there myself, but I'd try the same thing with them. Or try again later :( .

ainon

07-16-2003, 09:34 AM

I'm sorry ... it appears that Village Photos servers crashed or something, so there's nothing to see right now. :( I'll make up for offlined Nat and Jones by putting up some Huck Finn caps?

Originally posted by mariol3b3
Ainon, regarding "Who's next" -- I think you could show me any random picture and I'd come up with a Froshadow for it.

What! You think this is a game?! Well, cool, sure - I'll play. :D

http://www.photobucket.com/albums/0603/ainon/Huckleberry Finn Page/ac3dd137.jpg

Or was that only moderately angsty? Compared to this (http://www.photobucket.com/albums/0603/ainon/Huckleberry Finn Page/facf7a73.jpg), this (http://www.photobucket.com/albums/0603/ainon/Huckleberry Finn Page/40092070.jpg), this (http://www.photobucket.com/albums/0603/ainon/Huckleberry Finn Page/9176b019.jpg) and this (http://www.photobucket.com/albums/0603/ainon/Huckleberry Finn Page/cd3a5b8a.jpg)? ;)

Oh, don't look at me like that. You guys know I'm sick :cool: (http://www.photobucket.com/albums/0603/ainon/Huckleberry Finn Page/46f0fd9d.jpg). What's your excuse? :D

--------------

Bridget, these clouds ain't much, but this scene always reminds me of you. :)

http://www.photobucket.com/albums/0603/ainon/Huckleberry Finn Page/62d0e0e0.jpg

Interestingly enough, the sunset orange shade also happens to be the same shade of orange we see on the cover of the 'Shawshank Redemption' movie tie-in edition of Stephen King's Different Seasons. Very interesting, wouldn't you say?

Mariole

07-16-2003, 11:28 AM

from Nurse
the anxiety is lessening and the giddy excitement is increasing for Return of the Hobbit, I mean King
LOL! I like your title better. That's certainly how I view this movie. Yes, Aragorn is a mere distraction. Actually, a great distraction, but my first loyalty is clear.

from Gandalf
We cannot achieve victory by arms, but by arms we can give the Ring-bearer his only chance, frail though it be.
WAH!!! Poor Frodo! *The angst meter cranks up several notches at the word 'frail'...*

Ainon, I am one great fool. I should never have made the "any random picture" statement, not in this crowd! However, I will get to work on the Huck angst when I have a free evening. At least you didn't give me the shot where he's actually ... Hmm, has everyone here seen Huck Finn? Okay, it's the one before the cap where you have him lurching forward, where he's actually falling ... Ack, that's a sad one!

from tgshaw
I'm definitely gearing up for some wonderfully geeky discussion of Try Seventeen--eyebrow acting, nostril acting, fabulous falls and near falls, whether the symbolism was too heavyhanded at a couple of places, angst variations, interesting lines, interesting scenes, how is Jones different from--or the same as-- Elijah's other roles, are we glad Elijah took this part, what about the other characters, what did I miss that other people caught? As soon as Mariole comes up with some coherent thoughts, can we start--huh? huh? can we?
Uh, I didn't see any dissenting votes. Okay, I'll hazard a beginning. If anyone objects, please let me know and we'll hold this discussion for later.

Try 17 spoilers to end of post

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.

My apologies in advance for any discussion that I missed by skipping previously marked spoilers.

Overall view: I thought the movie was surprisingly tender. The script had some clever dialog (like, "I can sleep with Lisa if `nice' is a problem for you", or the parent vs Steve conversation in front of the camera, or the whole outside-the-CD store exchange). It had clever moments, like Jane asking for Jones to give her a lift, and they cut to the Taxi. I liked all the supporting characters. Even if I didn't "like like" them (such as Lisa), I enjoyed their contribution (I hate movies where characters are depraved or despicable; that's boring to me). It's too bad the envelope for the movie was so predictable (geeky guy breaks through geekdom, boy gets girl), but that formula is very difficult to break in a romantic comedy. I liked the unexpected bits in the middle, particularly the mom's story. I had of course guessed the truth about Jones' dad, but it unfolded in a way I didn't predict.

In many ways, this was a strange little movie. I think it might have an audience problem, in that it portrays many humiliating Jones situations that might be too embarrassing for teens that age to handle. Yet with such a young protagonist, one would expect to draw a teen crowd. Therefore I can see why the movie would be hard to market. It's kind of like "Adventures in Babysitting," which I loved, but also had an audience problem in that the young guy who you're pulling for doesn't get the girl in the end. It works for the story, but isn't altogether satisfying.

Now, as for Elijah's performance, I thought it was a bit understated. I didn't quite get Jones as a character. This is in contrast to Jane, who I absolutely got as a character. Steve was a bit bland for me, but I really liked Brad downstairs. He came off as fresh and interesting. I think Lisa's self-involved artist and E. Perkins' Blanche "tragic drunk" character were both portrayed very well; even though cliche, they came off as interesting and sympathetic (particularly Blanche). And the color characters (such as Ma and her boys) are just there for fun, so I won't evaluate them in the same way.

So that made Elijah's character comparatively the weakest among the "dramatic" characters. I know he's portraying a fish out of water, the outsider, the one who gets picked on (a common theme for Elijah movies), so his different delivery from the others might be intentional. But many of his lines, particularly the voice overs while typing or his phone conversations with Blanche, came off as pretty monotone. His accent also bothered me. His character explains that he was raised in New England vs. Texas, but he doesn't talk "New England" either. He talks in unique Elijah-accent, complete with a carry-over of British-sounding lilt that he picked up after LOTR. It made me think I was watching Elijah Wood and not Jones Dillon. Since I know Elijah can do accents, this neglect bothered me. I wonder if he had really invested the development into this particular character that I would have enjoyed seeing.

Well, that's enough random (vs coherent) thoughts for the moment. I'm really interesting in hearing other people's opinions on the performance. I will only add, I really liked his scenes with Franka (Jane), but their resolution was too short! After all that build-up, I wanted a bit more snogging in the hotel room. This is a big moment for Jones -- I wanted more reaction (bliss, excitement, etc.) Also, when they kiss at the end, Jones says, "Shut up and drive." Excuse me?! Even on first viewing, it startled me. No, don't shut up and drive! Snog some more. We've been waiting all movie for this. So I felt a bit gipped in the romance dept. as well. Not sure if that is the fault of the director, editor, or script, but to me, it was a fault!

Looking forward to the various spin-off discussions tg mentioned above. Thanks, all!

Hobmom

07-16-2003, 01:31 PM

I would love to get in on a good Try Seventeen discussion but I have to see it first. I did see a teeny snippit...very teeny.... on Starz last night in their "Original Movies" promo and it seems to me that by his body language Elijah WAS into Jones' character and especially in all the caps, he looks different as Jones than he has as anyone else, certainly nothing like Frodo. Maybe that's what he was going for... somebody vastly different than Frodo.

I'm sure I'll have lots more to say when I see it...probably first on Starz and then when I get my DVD from Amazon.

I am STILL waiting for my DVD rom drive to come. Those of you who shop Ebay... How long have you ever waited for an item? It's two full weeks now and I want my DVD rom!!! I want to cap!!!!

Gladys

07-16-2003, 04:54 PM

[delurk]

I had to laugh when I saw this comparison picture (http://www.photobucket.com/albums/0603/ainon/7b4698d1.jpg) posted by ainon. Poor Elijah's always shorter than his leading ladies, even when she's Thumbelina. :p

From Mariol:
I think it might have an audience problem, in that it portrays many humiliating Jones situations that might be too embarrassing for teens that age to handle. Yet with such a young protagonist, one would expect to draw a teen crowd. Therefore I can see why the movie would be hard to market. Another marketing problem would be its rating -- according to Amazon it's rated R and can't be sold to under-18s, so that would restrict its audience if it were released to cinemas.

Hobmom: You should be able to get contact details for the seller (i.e., phone number and email address) from eBay so that you can check with them about the delivery of the DVD drive. You can complain to eBay if you get no satisfaction. (You should also be able to check the feedback about the seller's past transactions to see if they've been reliable in the past.)

Viola Took

07-16-2003, 05:11 PM

just a quick delurk to say I really enjoyed all the Nat/Frodo comparisons (and yes ainon, I got to see all of yours)

have to say though, that the difference in age has only matured his facial expressions -I like the Frodo ones much better. The "scream" in particular, shows that his acting has matured, in that the look on his face is much much more convincing :eek:

it also seems that some facial expressions don't really change that much over the years, but seem particular to the actor

viola

off lurking again.....

Prim

07-16-2003, 05:23 PM

Spoilers for Try Seventeen and Ash Wednesday Follow:

I agree totally with Mariole re how EW plays Jones. He plays it very deadpan: possibly as a contrast to the other colourful characters but it made him too bland and colourless. I really don't think he put much effort into this part: if you compare how he plays quiet and internal moments in LoTR where there is an underlying intensity that changes his whole body language then his Jones' interpretation comes up lacking.

This creates the startling problem, as Mariole has pointed out, that as the main character he is really the only one that doesn't shine. Even his scream lacked punch. It does make me wonder whether he is an actor that really needs a director with a strong vision and whether thus this is as much a director failing as an actor one. We know he can do angst. We know as a person he has unbounded energy: so why does his character in this movie act as if he has had some sort of emotional bypass surgery??

There are some moments where this very understated approach works: I really liked the quiet "damn" line when he surveys triumphantly the vast range of wine glasses only to realise he has no corkscrew. :rolleyes: But mostly he seems very disengaged.

I think this is probably at the core of the lack of success of the film. It affects the relationship with Jane (Franka). She genuinely is too old for him. She looks about 26/27 and he looks very much 17. Apart from the moral quandry this presents (if the sex roles were reversed would we be so tolerant?) it just doesn't ring true. If we are to accept that an intense woman with an interesting past would connect with a youth like Jones then he has to be an interesting youth rather than just sweet. She does mention his "pain" that she photos, but we as an audience don't actually get to see this, and so for me the attraction between them had no weight.

I see the same problem in Ash Wednesday. If we are to accept (or at least suspend disbelief) the central plot event that Sean is a killer and yet is an innocent then Burns should have notched up his (ie Sean's) character: made it much more brooding and intense,or even quirky or passionate and established firmly that the brothers have a deep loyalty. This lack of character depth is aggravated by Burns' unwillingness to give Sean any significant screen time. :rolleyes:

BTW: When was Ash Wednesday filmed? Before or after LoTR?

tgshaw

07-16-2003, 07:26 PM

Edit: Ash Wednesday was the first movie Elijah filmed after LotR--He took the role in it partly because it would take only four weeks to shoot, and he wanted to "get back on his feet" after going into what seems to have been a mild depression/exhaustion after the main LotR filming finished. Try Seventeen was next.

I wrote the rest of this before I saw Prim's post--I seem to have found Jones more interesting than some other people did (maybe I have lower standards... :rolleyes: )

--------------

Originally posted by ainon
Interestingly enough, the sunset orange shade also happens to be the same shade of orange we see on the cover of the 'Shawshank Redemption' movie tie-in edition of Stephen King's Different Seasons. Very interesting, wouldn't you say?
You guys are incorrigible :rolleyes: -- and, no, I don't mean Bridget's cloud swooning :p ! Okay. Okay. You'll be glad to know I've just put in my order--will be watching it with Chinese subtitles BTW ;) , as I dropped it into an order I was making anyway. What did I ever do without yesasia.com? ...and VCDs? ...and international collaboration?

After my last post, I was going to offer to start a Try Seventeen thread in the Cinema forum, but if we can do it here, great! I'll try to continue on from some of Mariole's comments, but certainly won't say everything in one post. IMHO, this is a very "discussible" movie (as opposed to the other "new" releases since FotR: TT&T and AW :rolleyes: ). When I rewatched it, I noticed things that I hadn't picked up the first time, so there's probably more there yet.

Try 17 spoilers to end of post

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Originally posted by mariol3b3
Overall view: I thought the movie was surprisingly tender.
I was so glad it didn't turn out to be the "teen comedy" that it originally sounded like.

The script had some clever dialog...
I have a nomination for "most unintentionally funny dialogue." It was meant to be humorous, but when you combine it with the real people saying the lines, I thought it became hilarious. After Jones has helped Lisa run lines for her role in the play by reading the part of the other character in the scene:

Jones: "You were good."
Lisa: "Really? I mean, not just compared to you?"

Just about fell off my chair when I heard that one :D !!

I liked all the supporting characters. Even if I didn't "like like" them (such as Lisa), I enjoyed their contribution (I hate movies where characters are depraved or despicable; that's boring to me).
Lisa and Steve are jerks, but they're both so oblivious to their jerkdom that it's hard to hate them (if that makes any sense).

Dialogue from best/worst Steve moment:

Jones: "You [slept with] Lisa, didn't you?"
Steve: "Yeah. And you?" [As in "Let's compare notes"?]

Lisa's best/worst, of course, is snatching that brown envelope. I'd suspected she was capable of something like that earlier, from some of the things she said about Jane, but that little action took away any doubts.

I really liked Brad. And Jane. And Blanche (I think a big part of my liking Blanche was seeing this movie after recently re-watching Avalon--the difference between the two "mothers" is great). I also loved the landlady... wish we could have seen more of her.

Now, as for Elijah's performance, I thought it was a bit understated. I didn't quite get Jones as a character...
As with any good EJW character, I find myself picking him up in bits and pieces and I think there's a lot there I haven't gotten yet. Much of it's in his actions--like that little pause before he lets the landlady know he's behind her, or leaving Lisa's sunglasses on while he phones Blanche, or dragging that trunk down the school corridor even though it's scratching the floor... or, well I'd better stop for now :p ... I think perhaps Jones is found more in his actions than a lot of Elijah's characters are. Not that the facial expressions, etc., aren't still important, but I think a lot of Jones is displayed in "micro-actions" as opposed to "micro-expressions" (if that makes any sense).

In fact, I found myself being annoyed occasionally when I was watching the movie for the first time--took me awhile to figure out that Jones is more overt, especially in his mannerisms, than most characters I've seen Elijah play and I was having a bit of trouble "allowing" him to be that way (especially since in many ways Jones is still internal and sensitive). When I figured out what was happening, I was able to let Jones not be Casey, or Barney... or Frodo. Kind of funny, but what hit me the most was how obviously he uses his eyebrows (in a number of ways), compared to, say, Frodo's "eyebrow acting" that can be so subtle it's even hard to catch on a screencap. Jones has a bit of con man in him, and I think it shows. ---- He also does a really good "smoldering burn" anger (IMVHO); but, y'know, I tried to screencap an instance of that and it didn't work very well, almost as if it needs movement to be visible.

But many of his lines, particularly the voice overs while typing or his phone conversations with Blanche, came off as pretty monotone. His accent also bothered me. His character explains that he was raised in New England vs. Texas, but he doesn't talk "New England" either...
It's hard to say what Jones's accent would be like, since he's lived in different places. Probably Texas til he was old enough for boarding school, then New England for school, who knows where for summer camp, and probably back to Texas occasionally. The most interesting accent I've ever heard belonged to a girl I met in Fort Worth (Texas). Her mother lived in Texas and her father lived in Indiana, and she spent half her time with each one. The closest I could get to describing her accent would be a "soft" Irish brogue. Very, very strange... From that experience, I'm willing to let Jones have just about whatever accent he wants :) .

I think it made sense for him to use a somewhat different delivery during the voiceovers and the phone calls, but I don't know that it was the best delivery it could have been. I don't think I've paid enough attention to that, yet...

...After all that build-up, I wanted a bit more snogging in the hotel room. This is a big moment for Jones -- I wanted more reaction (bliss, excitement, etc.)
IMVHO, the scene was played very true to the characters--especially Jones. Personally, I think he would have had more uncertainty and confusion than he would bliss and excitement--not so much because it's his "first time" as because the whole reason they're together is that she's going back to Steve.

If Steve hadn't been in the picture, I think Jones would have reacted very differently--but, being the person he is and feeling the way he does about Jane, IMVHO knowing she's going to be out of his life the next day (and putting herself into a situation he doesn't think is good for her) would make it hard for him to be completely happy about the whole thing, even if he enjoyed it physically. With Jane's "This is not happening" (and making him repeat it), I don't think he's under any illusion that she's changed her mind at that point.

Kind of a bittersweet scene, I thought--meaning nothing but good. I thought it was beautifully true to the characters.

-----------

Just checked the message length and this is getting to be a long one!! But there's still room for a few more thoughts (I just have to take out some of my smilies)...

Did anyone else think it was strange that the other people in the house had such common first names (Jane, Lisa, Brad--and I'd add in Steve), and then Jones's first name is one of the most common last names in the English language? IIRC, we never hear any of the others' last names. Wonder if someone had fun planning that? :)

After hearing so much about it, I was surprised what a small part Jones's fantasies played in the movie. IMHO, it could have been made quite well without them. BTW, that's where I thought the symbolism got a bit heavyhanded at the end--especially with his "female companions." I am glad, though, that he said good-bye to them before he knew Jane was coming back, rather than as a result of that. Made it seem more like true character growth. ---- But, on the whole, I think I would have liked the movie better without the little fantasy bits (the scene with Ma was a dream, so that could stay ;) )

I was reflecting on Blanche's line about "Boys always chase after girls who remind them of their mothers," and could see it almost as a connection among the various parts of the storyline. I'd have to think about it some more to really put it into words, but it seems like it could tie a lot of things together.

And, speaking of Blanche, I have to amend my statement about "almost" crying. :o The third time I heard Jones tell her she hadn't failed... well, I didn't sob, but the eyes sure got misty.

And to end with a part of Mariole's post that I moved for just that purpose :) --
In many ways, this was a strange little movie.
Often my favorite kind :) .

Bridget Chubb

07-16-2003, 07:32 PM

ainon, those clouds are beautiful.:) And you make a very interesting point regarding the color of the sunset, and how closely it matches the cover of Different Seasons (which, as we all know, contains that gem among stories, Stephen King's Rita Hayworth and The Shawshank Redemption.) I am sure we could have an incredibly enlightening discussion comparing the use of color in Disney's The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn and Castle Rock Entertainment's The Shawshank Redemption. Okay...maybe not.:rolleyes:

Unfortunately, as it seems that some of us are altogether too preoccupied with having a "wonderfully geeky discussion" of "Try Seventeen" to consider keeping their solemn promises to watch Shawshank, I suppose we'll have to wait before delving into the rich lode of possible fascinating discussions of said film.:( :(

:p

((((ainon)))) ((((tgshaw)))):D

Edit: Oh. Hi, tgshaw. Um, I'm glad to hear it. Woohoo!!:D Tries to look innocent.

tgshaw

07-16-2003, 08:10 PM

:rolleyes: Did I mention the word "incorrigible"? :p By the way, where's Sheryl disappeared to? :confused: :)

shilohmm

07-16-2003, 08:42 PM

Originally posted by tgshaw
By the way, where's Sheryl disappeared to? :confused: :)

Hey, I have a life! :p

Well, I suppose I don't really, as is evidenced by the promptness of this response... :rolleyes:

I've been spending my posting time in the Fanfic thread getting in Deep Trouble with Bridget. :( Plus we're heading out to the in-laws' this weekend, because my mother-in-law has alzheimers and was just put in the nursing home and we haven't been there in entirely too long anyhow. And I've actually been working on my novel. Well, sort of - I moved some scenes around and threw in some transitions, anyhow. :o

Hiya, Gladys! Always glad to see you pop in - and not just because you share a name with my grandma. ;) I had that thought about EW's cartoon character being short, too.

Hi, Viola! Good to see you, too. :)

I am loving these Nat-and-Frodo pics from ainon and mariol, but that screen cap from Huck Finn... *sigh*

Bridget and ainon,
I didn't leave the room or anything while Ed was walking - it's just that I quit picking up when EW was on the screen. It's not like I was vacuuming or anything - and I happen to know that Bridget, at least, does laundry while watching QL, so sweeping the floor and stuff is valid I think.

Besides, I was warned. ;)

Sheryl

Prim

07-16-2003, 09:44 PM

...took me awhile to figure out that Jones is more overt, especially in his mannerisms, than most characters I've seen Elijah play and I was having a bit of trouble "allowing" him to be that way (especially since in many ways Jones is still internal and sensitive). When I figured out what was happening, I was able to let Jones not be Casey, or Barney... or Frodo.

Hmmm. Now that comment is very intriguing. It's the exact opposite of my own view. I will watch the movie again with this (and the eyebrows) in mind and report back. Yes, I am willing to rewatch an EW movie in pursuit of truth. :p :D

ps. another wonderful moment: the motorbike almost/ending. Still a geek (flapping coat) and the bike soon dies. How very in character!!!

Hobmom

07-16-2003, 10:03 PM

I did a little snooping around at the Starz website and here's their schedule for Try 17 /All I Want showings.Try 17 TV Schedule (http://www.starzsuperpak.com/se/starzcinema/title.html?version_id=4190577&episode_num=-1&the_view=ShowAll)

Yippee... Just two weeks away!:D

Brunhild

07-17-2003, 06:44 AM

I've already said (have I?) that there's a certain similarity between FotR and North--both have EJW as the sensitive hero surrounded by blooming stereotypes. Try 17 seems to continue the trend with a different set of cliched characters played by over-qualified actors. FotR is completely serious, North is teasingly sarcastic, and Try 17 fits in between by being mildly ironic. So it's not going to be a hit but it won't bomb either. And Ebert will slight, slight, slight this movie. Slight it. :D :)

tgshaw--Thanks for uttering the cue word 'incorrigible' :p. I'm also glad that you enjoyed the "that was an insult" quote at the Quote Thread :).

tgshaw

07-17-2003, 08:31 AM

Originally posted by Brunhild
...FotR is completely serious, North is teasingly sarcastic, and Try 17 fits in between by being mildly ironic. So it's not going to be a hit but it won't bomb either.
I think this is related to some of the marketing problem for North, too--billed as a children's movie, and built around things interesting to kids, but having "teasingly sarcastic" humor that a lot of kids might not get.

And Ebert will slight, slight, slight this movie. Slight it. :D :)
I'm in my normal morning ritual of reading this thread and drinking coffee while the morning news plays behind me on the TV. Just a minute ago, Joel Siegal (ABC's movie critic--whom I actually think is one of the better ones around) started talking about a "terrible" teen comedy with Mandy Moore. Of course, my radar clicked in--but it seems he was talking about How to Deal, which is opening in theaters (whew!). BTW, this movie's an example of the reason I'm disappointed Try Seventeen's title is being changed to All I Want--just too forgettable. By the time Joel had reviewed two more movies, I couldn't remember the name of the Mandy Moore one, so had to go to IMDb to look it up--then had to write it down or I would have forgotten it again by the time I wrote this post. :rolleyes: I don't mind so much that they're changing the title, but couldn't they make the new one unique?

tgshaw--Thanks for uttering the cue word 'incorrigible' :p.
Cue word? :confused: ? Did I touch off something I'm not aware of? :eek: Or was the Shawshank Conspiracy Team just getting too far off topic :p ?

I'm also glad that you enjoyed the "that was an insult" quote at the Quote Thread :).
One of my favorites! I'm a sucker for hobbit banter. IMHO, one of the flaws of the LotR movies is deleting the book's built-in humor from the hobbit banter and Frodo's cynical/dry sense of humor and substituting added-on "comedy relief" slapstick :rolleyes: .

Be that as it may, the following page has been in the "Tolkien Archives" at my website for some time now, but for anyone who hasn't had the "joy" of reading it :p : Top Ten Comback Lines from LotR (http://www.members.tripod.com/afewwords_tgs/id64.htm).

Be warned that if any of these lines show up in the quote thread, I'm bound to catch them, book at hand or not :p ! (And none of them has been in the movies :mad: . With the scouring out, there's not much hope that we'll hear Frolijah utter my #1 favorite :( .)

ainon

07-17-2003, 10:39 AM

Well, tgshaw, I am glad to hear the news.

http://home.villagephotos.com/2003-7/13204/a'in/AndyDufresne.JPG
(Bridget and Sheryl and) I'll keep an eye out for you, and the chessboard ready. ;)

I see you, Viola! :k Yup, Gladys, that was why I put the Tom and Jones caps side by side! :D

(((Sheryl))) Have some angst: Huck (http://www.photobucket.com/albums/0603/ainon/Huckleberry Finn Page/4eec7b06.jpg)

TRY 17

I kinda rambled my thoughts on Try 17 in this post (http://www.khazaddum.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=146660&highlight=spoilers+Shireling#post146660).

The Lisa line that tg quoted had me LOL too, but I also noted that it was Mandy Moore who delivered that triumphant punchline. :p In an earlier scene where Jones sits among the audience of Lisa's disastrous play and mouths the dialogue along with the actor on stage, I had no idea where Elijah was going with it. If Elijah had shown me something, *anything* ... :rolleyes: His underwhelming subtlely didn't work for me. Not for this kind of movie, which I suppose is playing on the ideas (as I understand it from watching American movies, and tv shows, and reading books :D) that a teenager: 1. would rather be swallowed alive by the most gruesome beast around than die a virgin ;) and 2. would definitely find a practical hands-on tutorial by an older woman to be the defining moment in his life. :D But Elijah's Jones Dillon simply made no sense to me.

I do agree though that Elijah was being uniquely Jones in this movie. I had no Frodo or pre-Frodo thoughts at all when I watched him.

/TRY 17

----------------------------------

tg, your talk about eyebrow action means I can actually post this Elijah in Huck costume (http://www.photobucket.com/albums/0603/ainon/Huckleberry Finn Page/00786d0e.jpg) screencap after all. He's giving an interview, and there's a LOT of eyebrow action going on!

Moving further back when Elijah was a cute widdle tyke, he had his shouted angst moment too:

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-7/93723/PDVD_203.jpg

He also did a fair share of wrestling.

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-7/93723/PDVD_156.jpg

But here's the Faculty pop quiz. This screencap is not off-topic. See it?

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-7/93723/PDVD_132.jpg

And I'll hand out a collector's Huck Finn screencap to the one who names the movie. ;)

Maeglian

07-17-2003, 11:05 AM

"Internal Affairs" - Elijahs one little scene - although one of his child modelling pics apparently made it into the photo on the desk in the last scene there. :)

(IA is an awful film IMO - awful in the sense that the plot was predictable, *and* unbelievable, and the characters ranging from mildly annoying to totally cringeworthy or clueless or hateful - and with the violence in addition - nope. didn't like it. Won't watch it again. )

Thanks for marking the Try 17 discussion and spoilers so clearly, everyone. For once I've decided to stay away from all spoilers and opinions and won't read more or look at pics until I've seen the film myself and can form an opinion. Hope that won't be too far into the future.

I have no chance to comment on all that has happened here while I've been away; - I'll just say that I'm very impressed with all the photo comparisons..... and that all the cute kiddy role pics make me yearn all the more for new, grown up film roles for Elwood, and that I watched the Shawshank Redemption several years ago and found it OK, but nothing more, it didn't make much of an impression at all. If anything, I had to wrestle with significant disbelief as the plot unfolded. Strange, I suppose.... Oh well. :o

Oh, and not to forget:
Belated wishes for wonderful birthdays and many happy returns, Prim and ainon!

:) :) :)

Winter

07-17-2003, 11:25 AM

(delurk)

Short blurb about Elijah in Hollywood Life: (this magazine just appears in my mail, I swear :eek: )

Don't expect to see Elijah Wood in any Joel Schumacher movies. Wood and some pals recently took in a screening of Schumacher's Phone Booth at the Loews Theatre on Broadway and 84th, where, as the credits rolled, the Lord of the Rings star was overheard loudly lambasting the flick and editing, declaring, "Joel Schumacher couldn't direct his way out of a paper bag!"

..speak your mind, Elijah! :D Personally, I hated Phone Booth so I just found that blurb hilarious.

Hopefully there will be much more LoTR stuff in this creepy magazine as RoTK draws nearer. ;)

(relurk)

Mariole

07-17-2003, 11:48 AM

I agree with what tg said! Lots of good stuff to discuss here.

Try 17 spoilers

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.

.

from Hobmom
he looks different as Jones than he has as anyone else, certainly nothing like Frodo.
I agree. In both of Elijah's post-LOTR movies, I don't catch a whiff of hobbit. What distracts me (apart from the hideous AW script, which I won't go into) is how much Elijah looks (and sounds) like "Elijah" in these movies (IIRC someone else commented on his non-Bronx accent in AW; he's using Elijah-speak there, too. Now, I know that Arnold always sounds like Arnold, but he's doing over-the-top silly roles; for a dramatic character I expect something more, along the lines of Sir Ian M's study of how Gandalf should move and speak.)

Perhaps this is my own fault. I haven't really followed an actor in terms of interviews as I have Elijah Wood. I think it's because LOTR has been such a part of my life for almost 30 years, and Elijah (through Frodo) gives me something else to "study" about it, be it once-removed. So I only see (for example) Dustin Hoffman as Raymond, or Michael Dorsey, or Jack Crabb, and not as Dustin Hoffman per se. But I can't remember if I've ever seen an interview with Dustin Hoffman even once to form a "personal" impression of the man, apart from his roles. So I may be saddling myself with EW baggage that a less fanatic audience would not have brought with them.

Despite that, I still lean toward Prim's view: "I really don't think he put much effort into this part: if you compare how he plays quiet and internal moments in LoTR where there is an underlying intensity." I wonder if Try 17 and AW does in fact show evidence of a "mild depression/exhaustion after the main LotR filming finished" (to quote tg). It doesn't seem as if his heart is in either film. Since I believe he has a lot of heart, it makes me wonder what was going on with him. But then I get into the personal area, which I think is really none of my business. From a professional perspective, I would say that these 2 films represent a slump. I'm not particularly worried; I think that's common for any artist (Michael Caine has talked about doing some real barkers during his career, but the important thing is to keep working). Certainly it would be hard to find a creative experience to rival making the LOTR trilogy. I'm keeping my fingers crossed for ESOTSM. That's a bigger film, with by all accounts an excellent script. That's where I really hope "Patrick" will shine.

from Prim
If we are to accept that an intense woman with an interesting past would connect with a youth like Jones then he has to be an interesting youth rather than just sweet. She does mention his "pain" that she photos, but we as an audience don't actually get to see this, and so for me the attraction between them had no weight.
I pondered this last night, and I think I've now got some sort of take on it. We don't ever get to hear Jones speak for himself. We know that he types his letters as a fantasy outlet, and we're shown the events, which are basically played for a laugh. I know a visual scene is supposed to be preferable movie making, but I wonder in this case if Charles Kephart (the writer) did Jones a disservice. We know he can write clever dialog. On my second viewing, I still chuckled or even laughed over some of this lovely banter with Jane and Lisa. But the fantasy events, once I'd seen them and they lost their shock value, bring at best a smile on repeat viewing.

Now, jump ahead to when Jane is reading Jones' letters in the hospital. We hear her laughing quite loudly; she says later the letters are hysterical. But what have we the audience seen? "Dead Dad," followed by a car blowing up or a pitched gun battle -- which I think would rather concern me if I were Jane rather than tickle my funny bone. Several adolescent fantasies -- again, understandable, but not exactly laughing material, except for perhaps Ma's attack -- depending on how it was written. I think in this case, the thing that swings Jane over to Jones is his letters, as much as his pain and his sweetness. But we never see any of the content of the letters, so it leaves a big deciding factor for Jane unshown.

Ainon, thanks for linking back to your post. I think some of us definitely see what you mean. I think EW can do comedy; I'm just not sure about the success of his Jones character.

from tgshaw
Personally, I think he would have had more uncertainty and confusion than he would bliss and excitement
Well, I'd settle for uncertainty and confusion. :p I just wanted more! Am I the only nut who wanted more snogging in this comedy/romance/drama? I really enjoyed the scene. I just thought that as a key event it could have used a bit more play. *please* don't read anything into that particular sentence...

Future topics I'd like to discuss: eyebrow acting, the art of falling

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.

End of Try 17 spoilers

I'd take Brunhild's remark a bit farther, about Elijah gravitating toward characters who don't quite fit in. (Although I would call some of the the LOTR characters "archetypal" rather than "stereotypical" -- what's a stereotypical hobbit? Merry? Pippin? Stereotypical elf? Classic Maiar?) Looking at Elijah's recent films:
* Try 17 - underage student in completely new situation (no friends)
* LOTR - Ringbearer, which puts rather a damper on things
* Ash Wednesday - outcast on the run, cut off from family and friends for 3 years
* Chain of Fools - absolute loner, age isolated, no friends
* Bumblebee - outcast at a terminally ill ward (talk about being an outcast!)
* Black and White - (from nurse) despite attempts, not quite part of the gang
* Faculty - outcast in whole school, despite being terminally cute
* Deep Impact - HAH! He's not an outcast! But he does rather stick out for discovering this civilization-destroying comet...
* Oliver Twist - criminal who doesn't quite fit in because he's got underlying morals and ends up suffering because of them
* Ice Storm - I don't think anyone will claim that Mikey fits in anywhere
* Flipper - sour Sandy is banished to an island until he can learn to make nice with people
* the War - Stu has strong family relationships, but is antagonistic with other kids
* North - North is isolated because he's too perfect
* Good Son - Mark is separated from his only living parent and locked in a situation where no one believes him
* Huck Finn - yeah, Huck so fits in -- great family relationships, sharing the prejudices of his Southern culture, and so on ... ;)
* the Witness - not viewed (*sniff!*), but he is on his own...
* Forever Young - Yea! He's not an outcast again! But he's 11.

That's more than enough for now.

(List edited to put in CoF and B&W comments)

Maeglian! You're here! :k Great to see you drop in. Yes, I'm glad I avoided spoilers before viewing Try 17. I liked seeing it fresh! (And I'm glad to see that I'm not the only person in the world who wasn't thrilled with Shawshank redemption; I know that's a minority opinion.)

Ainon! Great Huck angst! :) Yes, I'll be working on those. (Blast, I lose out on the Huck cap contest; I've never seen that movie. Or the other one you've shown ...) :(

Tg, love your LOTR quotes page! Those are some of my favorites, too. I even imagined Frodo giving a humorous comeback in CU -- yes, I did. The scene involves orcs surrounding him just after he wakes up, demanding to know who else he came with. Frodo of course says "no one." The orc then lets out that he knows about the "elf warrior" who cut his bonds. Frodo raises his brows at that and answers dryly, "I think I would have remembered an elf warrior."

Of course, this won't go over well with the orcs. But I think Frodo has such courage that he could make such a remark, even to the enemy. But I have little hope that we'll see that kind of spunk in PJ's version.

tgshaw

07-17-2003, 01:43 PM

TRY 17 spoilers--entire post

Originally posted by ainon
His underwhelming subtlely didn't work for me. Not for this kind of movie, which I suppose is playing on the ideas (as I understand it from watching American movies, and tv shows, and reading books :D) that a teenager: 1. would rather be swallowed alive by the most gruesome beast around than die a virgin ;) and 2. would definitely find a practical hands-on tutorial by an older woman to be the defining moment in his life...
Well, I guess that's one reason I liked him. None of the teenagers I know fit 1. or 2.*, and I'm glad Jones was more real than he was a stereotype. IMHO that was as much due to the script as to Elijah's acting. It does make the movie more drama than comedy, and much more low-key, but I guess that fits my taste in movies.

If Jones had lived by 1. and 2., I would have seen him as just another teenage stereotype meant to be funny, instead of a real person. He cared about Jane and didn't want to have sex just to have sex, both of which make perfect sense to me and, I believe, would make perfect sense to a lot of teenagers. I was glad Elijah was in a movie that fit pretty well with his own attitude about romantic/sexual relationships (going by what he's said in interviews, anyway).

Jones is obviously someone who's used to being on his own and making his own decisions, a situation where it's likely a kid will end up either self-destructing or learning very quickly how not to self-destruct. IMVHO, Jones has done the latter. He's definitely still learning--Even a mature 17-year-old isn't always going to make the best decisions when he's left to make them on his own (dropping out of school may be an example). But IMHO a "stereotypical" teenager with Jones's life history and situation would have crashed and burned before he reached 17.

Can you tell I like the kid? :o
------------------

*Not to say that no teenagers fit that stereotype--just none of the ones I know personally or through co-workers' families. I don't know any who've gone to spring break in Cancun, for example :rolleyes: , so my education isn't by any means complete.

Hobmom

07-17-2003, 01:44 PM

Well my DVD Rom just arrived. I will now attempt to install the thingie without destroying my PC.

If I am successful you all know what THAT means.

Hobmom the cap maven will return with goodies!!!!:D

tgshaw

07-17-2003, 03:15 PM

Originally posted by mariol3b3
What distracts me (apart from the hideous AW script, which I won't go into) is how much Elijah looks (and sounds) like "Elijah" in these movies (IIRC someone else commented on his non-Bronx accent in AW; he's using Elijah-speak there, too...
I'll concede the accent in AW, but with a 4-week shooting schedule there probably wasn't much time to prepare (and we know accents are something Elijah really has to work at--as opposed to aspects of his acting talent that seem to be innate.) But, aside from that, I guess I need help understanding the "Elijah-speak" problem. Don't most actors speak (and look) like "themselves" unless there's a specific reason not to? I can't really think of any who have a different way of speaking for each role. Or am I misunderstanding something? :confused:

Certainly it would be hard to find a creative experience to rival making the LOTR trilogy...
IMHO, this could be his biggest problem stemming from playing Frodo--not typecasting, but just... what do you do afterward? Someone said it's sad to think he might have had the role of his life when he was 21, but I think that just might be true. Not that he won't have other great roles, but, well, Frodo's Frodo, y'know (be quiet, Brunhild ;) )? I wish Elijah a long, wonderful career with lots of roles he can sink his teeth into, but I won't be surprised if I never see him top LotR.

I'm one of the [kinda strange :o ] people who truly believe that--no matter what else he does--Elijah was born to play Frodo. He put every ounce of himself and his giftedness into that role (a role I've never been able to imagine anyone else in--even before he was cast), which is one reason it wasn't surprising to hear him talk about the depressed/exhausted period he went through afterward.

----Sometimes it's hard not to compare his acting in other movies with what he did as Frodo, and IMHO that might not be quite fair.

nurse

07-17-2003, 04:46 PM

Mariole--I love your EW movie recap!

I can't speak on Try 17 yet :( but am enjoying the spoilers. Such differing opinions!

Originally posted by mariol3b3
* LOTR - Ringbearer, which puts rather a damper on things LOL! (but so true)
Originally posted by mariol3b3
* Chain of Fools - haven't viewed it, but seems to fit the loner mold (confirmation, those who've seen it?)]

CHAIN OF FOOLS SPOILERS:

yes, his attempts at fitting in involve exaggerating a suicide into a self-done "hit" and trying to make friends with others who have "that parental suicide thing" in common.

END CHAIN OF FOOLS SPOILERS

Originally posted by mariol3b3
* Black and White - not viewed -- does it fit this list??)]
I read a review that stated that this was something new for EW because his character ("along with everyone else") "had lots of sex". The reviewer either didn't watch the movie at all or not very closely. He kind of pathetically followed the hip-hop crowd and the wanna-be-groupie (his once girlfriend?) without being included. At least that's what I saw the one (and only!) time I watched it.
Originally posted by mariol3b3
* Deep Impact - HAH! He's not an outcast! The astrology-club thing looks rather geeky, though. (I'm not criticizing, I'm just commenting :))
Originally posted by mariol3b3 But he does rather stick out for discovering this civilization-destroying comet...! LOL!
Originally posted by mariol3b3
* Huck Finn - yeah, Huck fits in -- great family relationships, sharing the prejudices of his Southern culture, and so on ......! You *are* being highly sarcastic about both of those, right?!
Originally posted by mariol3b3
* Forever Young - Yea! He's not an outcast again! But he's 11.......!
All the angsty photos and not an outcast? I suppose most of that was secretive, though. I'm unclear whether hiding a "dead guy" in your treehouse would be considered cool by middle-schoolers or not, might've been. He was a self-proclaimed geek in the library until he remembered his dream-girl was there too. (I love that scene!)

ainon

07-17-2003, 07:56 PM

Maeglian's back! :k And she's answered both questions. Guess she gets the special cap and a grand prize. :)

http://www.photobucket.com/albums/0603/ainon/Huckleberry%20Finn%20Page/666dedb2.jpg

http://www.frodoandsam.net/film/gallery/cast-images/cast-elijah-huckfinn02.jpg

Well, it's my favourite Little Elijah in Character pic. :) Pic is from Elve's frodoandsam.net site. The image gallery has been refurbished. Oh, and you can catch up with some Huck commentary comments here:
http://www.frodoandsam.net/film/elijah/filmography/huckfinn.html

'Internal Affairs' was a late-80's thriller, so it feels darn dated. But for its time, I thought it did a good job and it wasn't pretending to be anything it wasn't. Always a plus point. :p

Though I have to say it *is* strange, Maeg, your comments about Shawshank there. Hmmm. :D

Hobmom - good luck with the DVD-ROM install. We're waiting .... :)

Mariole & nurse - LOL!

TRY 17

In my case, the fact that Jones wasn't a stereotype was the reason why he lost me (or I him). If he were a stereotype comedy-teen made to be endearing, then I'd forgive his teenage transgressions because I'm in the comfort zone of knowing that this, my friends, is a movie. It's entertainment. I'd even overlook the apparent lack of a life -- at the age of 17! That still bugs me. What does the kid do at home? No school. He's not some budding writer tapping away at his keyboard all day. He doesn't indulge in petty thievery. Why is he not dead of boredom? He's 17! As for the angst, I've seen that kind of teen angst in a lot of other movies and a *LOT* of TV shows.

Not to say I was placing high expectations on Elijah or the plot. When I watch a movie I just go with it, but I do think that comedy isn't easy. When comedy works, even the most unlikely characters become favourable companions that you'd like to hang out with till the end of the movie, because you'd really like to see where their characters go. I didn't care about Jones. Or Jane, unfortunately. I'm afraid the romance there didn't work for me either. All I could think was that she was taking advantage of his naiveity to fill some emptiness in her life, and when she's done toying with him, she'll move on. What pain? He's 17. I couldn't see the relationship going anywhere and I didn't like it. :(

/TRY 17

I wouldn't be surprised either if Elijah never tops what he's done with Frodo, but I also agree with Mariole that the important thing is that he keeps on working. And learning.

As for actors, yes, even Dustin Hoffman retains himself when he's being somebody. There's a bit of Raymond in Michael Dorsey. He's the same guy. That's the way he talks, unless he's doing an accent in which case we may judge if the accent worked or not. But we can see that he's being Michael Dorsey when he's in 'Tootsie'. We laugh with Michael Dorsey and Dorothy Michaels and don't get pulled out of what's happening on screen. But in movies when he's not being a character and becomes Dustin Hoffman doing his job - we can see that too, which IMO was the case with the Joan of Arc movie version that he was in. No actor bats a thousand every single time.

ROTK SPOILER LINKS

Toybiz ROTK Frodo in orc armour costume 1 (http://img-nex.theonering.net/images/scrapbook/7189.jpg)
Toybiz ROTK Frodo in orc armour costume 2 (http://img-nex.theonering.net/images/scrapbook/7190.jpg)
Toybiz ROTK Frodo in orc armour costume 3 (http://img-nex.theonering.net/images/scrapbook/7192.jpg)

Prim

07-17-2003, 08:00 PM

Hi Maeglian: I hope you had a lovely summer holiday. :)

Greetings winter. Hmmm. Its hard to imagine EW being quite so rude. He's young. He clearly still needs the odd clip over the ear. (This is me in Mother Mode) :D

Spoilers for Try Seventeen follow: turn away now Maeglian!!!

I don't see the sexual issue as the key to Jones's personality either. He does not initiate any of his encounters, and one (Lisa's) he turns down , though admittedly only after she backs off.
I see the key to his personality in his ambivalent relationship with his mother and his yearning to find his Dad. And this is where I think EW's interpretation of Jones's character falls short.
Jones writes many letters to his Dad, elaborates on real life and tries clearly to be witty and to impress his absent father. The letters are written on his father's typewriter and placed in a chest, also once his father's, that goes wherever he does. He blames his mother for his dad's absence and rings her repeatedly to harass from her the truth. This is all evidence of a very angst filled teen but despite the actions and dialogue the angst doesn't showstrongly enough visually. There is emotion there but IMO it's too subtle. Several of the typing scenes could have an entirely different voiceover commentary attached to them and they would still work: there is little visual evidence to indicate that this is a teen going through a rather bizarre ritual.
I would have liked the film to be just as witty (I too liked a lot of the dialogue) but also more moody. A blacker comedy.

Having said that, there are moments when EW's performance is touching and shows again just how expressive his face can be. One is when Jane's door is shut on him and another at the very end when he leans down to Jane's car and recognises her. A whole series of emotions flashes over his face in a second.

Overall I really liked the movie: a lot more than Chain of Fools. It was no effort at all to watch it again and second time round I actually liked it better. I just am puzzling over the direction. It doesn't quite work for me.

Hobmom

07-17-2003, 09:55 PM

Here I am hardly able to maneuver my mouse anymore!

Cappers Anon. Heat up the coffee and donuts..... Here I come!!!!!

Yes I got the DVD rom installed just fine and you KNOW what I've been doing ALL day! Capping hundreds of the bits of TTT that some others have missed or not gotten around to. ALL FRO all the Time! I've gotten new angles of The Face from the conies scene, all Faz scenes, and Osgiliath plus a few other earlier scenes that have really been totally capped to death. I put them here.

New TTT Caps (http://groups.msn.com/ElijahSummer03/shoebox.msnw?Page=18) The first page is just the practice ones. Keep going. Theres LOTS of good ones!

Help! I'm already addicted and I don't even have Try Seventeen yet. When that arrives I may disappear from RL entirely!

I'm FTPing them up to my other site so I can direct link to some of them and I'll try to put some really yummy ones...erm I mean...pics worthy of intense investigation and study.... here later.

Edit:Well where is everybody? I'm back and here are a few caps...

http://www.angelfire.com/celeb2/elijahw/images/MyTTTcaps/ttt.jpg0008.jpg http://www.angelfire.com/celeb2/elijahw/images/MyTTTcaps/ttt20002.jpg http://www.angelfire.com/celeb2/elijahw/images/MyTTTcaps/ttt20017.jpg http://www.angelfire.com/celeb2/elijahw/images/MyTTTcaps/ttt20029.jpg http://www.angelfire.com/celeb2/elijahw/images/MyTTTcaps/ttt20047.jpg http://www.angelfire.com/celeb2/elijahw/images/MyTTTcaps/ttt20074.jpg http://www.angelfire.com/celeb2/elijahw/images/MyTTTcaps/ttt20090.jpg http://www.angelfire.com/celeb2/elijahw/images/MyTTTcaps/ttt20102.jpg

In addition to nostril and eyebrow acting Elijah also is a master of tear-acting...
http://www.angelfire.com/celeb2/elijahw/images/MyTTTcaps/ttt20121.jpg http://www.angelfire.com/celeb2/elijahw/images/MyTTTcaps/ttt20123.jpg

Lots more where those came from.

tgshaw

07-18-2003, 06:40 AM

Hobmom--Well, I'm certainly jealous--and herewith hand over the reins of official Faculty TTT screencapper (at least until August 26 ;) ). There's no way I could get such big, clear, beautiful pics from the VCD! :cool: Keep going! :)

Technical question--I notice you seem to be keeping most of the pics as bitmaps, except for the ones you posted here. Does that make a difference in picture quality (besides eating up memory :rolleyes: )? The jpegs are awfully nice, though--I don't see how they could be much better!!

------------

Try 17 spoilerish comments--here to end of post

As far as how Jones is played/written--I'm beginning to think I should back out of the discussion, as I realize a lot of my opinion is pure psychological projection. OMG, he reminds me of me :eek: !! Everything that others see as inconsistent, or not making sense, or too much (or too little) one way or another is [whimper] exactly how I was at that age :( . So I'm in no way objective about the character. And I'm sure I read a lot into him--when he's not showing emotion, I feel emotion anyway, but it's probably mine and not his (I didn't show it, either). Maybe I'll go find Jones and we can have a beer on the roof (I love that roof--and the round apartment). [One difference--from what he says in the first letter he types, I believe he is a budding writer, but with outside financial support he has the luxury of being able to pound on the keyboard all day! If to this point he's been putting everything into letters to his father, I'm sure when the shock wears off he'll find another way to express himself in writing. I wouldn't be surprised if he even finds his way back to college before too long, but on his own terms.]

Brunhild

07-18-2003, 07:52 AM

Posted by tgshaw
...well, Frodo's Frodo, y'know (be quiet, Brunhild ;))
I don't have anything to say:
From Coming of age with Frodo by Trudy G. Shaw
Thinking back, I believe at that time in my life I'd never met anyone who was as much like me as Frodo Baggins was.

Posted by tgshaw
OMG, he [Jones Dillon] is like me :eek:!! Everything that others see as inconsistent, or not making sense, or too much (or too little) one way or another is [whimper] exactly how I was at that age :(.

:p :) :k

nurse

07-18-2003, 08:41 AM

Hobmom-WOW!! The ones you posted are beautiful!

I really shouldn't be here...but

look at the 2nd photo on p 32: Ring!spell can give even Elijah Wood a beer belly!

Faramir's shirt has a Gondorian white tree? 7 viewings and I never noticed. Show's where I've been looking.

Osgiliath!!

RL calls:(

Maeglian

07-18-2003, 09:36 AM

Hobmom, all your caps are gorgeous! That set of pleading!Frodo caps is especially wonderful - it's the first time I've seen any caps from that little scene, and they are just so beautiful and angsty!

Looking at your pics this morning I especially noted the last one in your post above as utterly, totally swoonworthy. I mean, utterly convincing acting of anguish, sorrow, and fear.

Can't wait till I can see the film again, just one more month to go. (My plans to not buy the TR DVD have been silently scrapped. :o )

whiteling

07-18-2003, 10:45 AM

Hello to all, and Servus (kindly bavarian greeting :) ) Maeglian! Hope you enjoyed your holidays!

Thank you for the lovely Huck Character pic, ainon! So absolutely adorable...
Your Caps-Collection, Hobmom, really blew me away! Wow! Beautiful both, the quality of the pictures and the content. Although, Osgiliath breaks my heart every time I see it :eek: !

I haven't seen Try 17, so I can't make any valid contribution to the current discussion but I'm enjoying the variety of opinions. I like Prim's review because I feel this would probablý be the closest to my own POV.
I wonder if the comedy in Try 17 will work for me....

Tg, I think, you did find Jones already... our entire perception is pure psychological projection (o.k. call me Buddhist :cool: ) - never mind! ;)

tgshaw

07-18-2003, 10:51 AM

:) Brunhild :) -- It's nice to know the essays are getting read ;) .

Besides that, I think you've hit on exactly what I'd want to say. Jones is definitely not Frodo, but it seems any fictional character I find myself relating well to has something of Frodo in him (or her). From earlier in the paragraph you quoted from "Coming of Age with Frodo" --

Definitely Jones:
He was intelligent, interior, independent but loyal to his friends, not quite satisfied with life as it was, longing for something he couldn't give a name to...

Not quite Jones, but I could see him growing into it (he's only 17, after all). His dreams would certainly have to mature a bit ;) , but IMHO he's already starting to see beyond the physical:
...had an air about him that went a bit beyond most hobbits' physical concerns by straying into the spiritual. His dreams that we're allowed to experience (I believe the first one was at Crickhollow, although we're told about earlier ones) made him more mysterious but, paradoxically, also more understandable.

Mariole

07-18-2003, 12:36 PM

Great caps, Hobmom! Do more! (Oh, wait, you already have by now ...) ;) Do you take requests? I'd like to see Frodo sneaking away from the Haradrim soldiers and getting caught by Faramir's men. And more Faramir encounters generally. You've got a lot of great close-ups, but I'd also like to see Frodo "in a scene" as it were.

Tear acting! Yes, that's a great category to explore.

Nurse, thank you for your Chain of Fools and B&W clarifications. I expect CoF to show up any day now from yesasia. Whahoo! (Yes, I was being sarcastic re Huck Finn. I figured that everyone knew the story even if they hadn't seen the movie.)

from nurse
The astrology-club thing looks rather geeky, though.
So true. I was focusing on the "outcast quotient." The "geeky quotient" would be another list. ;)

from tgshaw
I guess I need help understanding the "Elijah-speak" problem.
Probably I'm the one who needs help. Every time he says a word with a British lilt to it (such as "properly"), I think, "Oh, there's Elijah who came back from NZ with his speech patterns altered." It takes me out of the character and has me focus on the actor. I doubt I'd be so conscious of this if I didn't know his history.

Ainon, LOOOOOOVE your bonus Huck pics. THANK YOU for posting the director's commentary. It was delightful. Also thanks for the Dustin Hoffman comparison. Like I said, I don't normally follow actors or any other celebrities. It's usually pretty dull stuff.

But just for a moment
To me, I don't care what comments Elijah may have made to his own friends while viewing a trailer (or an entire movie for that matter) on his own time. He's out to enjoy a movie, and he can giggle and have a good time if he wants to. To me the outrageous thing is someone spying on those non-public remarks and then publishing them. This really irritates me. [/rant]

Re: Frodo being the role of a lifetime, I remember Isaac Asimov complaining that, to many people, "Nightfall" (originally published in 1941) was still their favorite story of his. This is a man who has published over 200 books since. He said it was a bit depressing, but I think the fact remains that, when you do something truly brilliant, people will notice and love it forever. There are worse fates than doing something truly brilliant that people will love forever. I also hope very mightily that Elijah will continue his acting career. We have no idea what may lie in store in the future.

[b]Try 17 spoilers to end of post

.

.

.

Hmm, I guess I was looking at Try 17 more sexually than anybody else. :o I agree that finding out about his dad was a top priority, but to me that was just one (albeit important) aspect of Jones finding out who he was as a person. Exploring the different relationships with his housemates was also quite important, and very true for someone of that age who often finds their independent (i.e. non-parent-defined) identity in their peers, at least as a breaking away point. And Jones definitely had issues with his mom. I loved the scene where they resolve those issues, BTW. So moving!

Prim, what kind of voiceover to the typing scenes were you envisioning?

from tgshaw
I wouldn't be surprised if he even finds his way back to college before too long, but on his own terms.
Yes, I would expect this as well. There are worse fates than dropping out of school for a semester to find your identity.

Stupid question: Do we really know that Jones dropped out of school? He says so in a letter to his dad, but most of what he writes there is fantasy anyway. The movie doesn't mention school one way or another, only shows him returning to campus at the end for his "I am Jones, hear me roar" rampage. :confused:

I'm agreeing with tg that Jones is not a stereotype, and "It does make the movie more drama than comedy." I like this, too. It was one of the things that very pleasantly surprised me on first viewing, and elevated the movie into something I really enjoyed.

After reading the latest posts: I feel really rotten. I hope I didn't chase you away, tg, with my irritating observations. There were some things about the movie that I wish had been done in a different way, but I did enjoy it. With a little more snogging, I would have liked it even more! :p ("Where's that `incorrigible' comment when you need it..?") Still, thank you for sharing your views.

Hobmom

07-18-2003, 02:25 PM

So many caps to do! So little time!!! I plan on doing lots more, of course. Probably and in depth study of 'tear acting' and I'll try and get some of the Faz 'scenes' done, too. And ..oh my... I have the whole FOTR EXE DVD to work with!

So as RL allows I'll be working away on them!

Tg- I had to save them first as BMP files because that's how the PowerDVD software saves them. I later converted most of them to jpgs but those are the ones I uploaded for direct linking on my main site. The BMPs are on the picture site I linked to. They look equally fine, I think. The BMPs are really too huge to keep saving them that way and will try to find a way to just save as jpgs.

Well...A bit of RL intrudes and then it's back to my capping addiction. When I get more done I'll put them on the pic site.

Maeglian

07-18-2003, 03:06 PM

Servus, Whiteling, und danke schön; - mein Urlaub war wunderbar, verlief aber viel zu schnell! :)

I was in such a rush this morning, I forgot to thank you for the Hucks, ainon. Thank you! :)

I have a small picture comparison request: Could one of you wonderful, talented, kind and dear ladies post a comparison between the "Angelic Osgiliath pic" (You know of what I speak ;) ) and Hobmom's cap no. 20152 on her page 33? It seems that would present an interesting comparison between what they promised us in the trailer and what we got in the film: Much darker, less beautiful and ethereal, a tad more grimy and rough and realistic.....?

Tear acting research!!! (Weeps with joy) I've been hoping and hinting and waiting for something like that! :)

Do you think there was ever another male grown-up actor who cried so frequently and in so many different scenes in one (or two) single films?

Mariole

07-18-2003, 04:46 PM

Here you go, Maeg:

http://home.ricochet.com/mdes/limages/angel2.jpg

You said, "Much darker, less beautiful and ethereal, a tad more grimy and rough and realistic.....?" Hmm, more than a tad, I think!

Whahoo! The inestimable Moggy has changed my user name to be less geeklike! I am now just plain Mariole. Thanks, Moggy!

tgshaw

07-18-2003, 08:54 PM

Mariole--Noticed the "new" name when I clicked the "latest post" button. Congratulations! Now I won't have to keep remembering whether that "e" goes on the end or not ;) .

Hobmom--Yes, my program saves them as bitmaps, too. Most of them stay that way--on my hard drive for awhile and then on CDs. Even though I actually use such a small proportion of them (maybe a dozen out of a few hundred for a "series"), I can't bear to actually delete any of them :eek: ! Any that I use get turned into jpegs, then gifs if they're avatar-material.

And I don't think I've said welcome back to Maeg yet--hope you had a great vacation :) !

Originally posted by Mariole
So true. I was focusing on the "outcast quotient." The "geeky quotient" would be another list. ;)
LOL :D

And I couldn't agree more with this:
...but I think the fact remains that, when you do something truly brilliant, people will notice and love it forever. There are worse fates than doing something truly brilliant that people will love forever.

Try 17 spoilers to end of post

.

.

.

...Exploring the different relationships with his housemates was also quite important, and very true for someone of that age who often finds their independent (i.e. non-parent-defined) identity in their peers, at least as a breaking away point.
Part of the equation, too, is that for Jones "going away to college" isn't really going away to college, so his breaking away will take a different tack than most kids. He's lived in dormitory settings for most of his life. "Ska-boy" probably isn't his first obnoxious roommate--just the first one he's been able to walk away from, which IMHO must have felt "empowering" in itself.

The trunk kind of symbolized his whole life to me--not just his link to his father. When he tells the landlady it holds "his things," he's being literal. He's had a nomad existence, carrying everything he has with him; settling down in an apartment--a home that could be permanent, or at least long-term (as he types in one letter)--is really a "breaking away" for him. Each step (paying the rent, getting furniture, having his phone hooked up, buying glasses :p ) is a little bit more of moving away from his old life into a new one.

Stupid question: Do we really [i]know that Jones dropped out of school? He says so in a letter to his dad, but most of what he writes there is fantasy anyway. The movie doesn't mention school one way or another, only shows him returning to campus at the end for his "I am Jones, hear me roar" rampage. :confused:
Good question--do we get any hint of how long a period of time the movie covers? It doesn't seem to be too long, as the roommate just asks him something like, "Where've you been?" I didn't get the idea that he was attending classes during the time the movie covered, but since the movie started with freshman orientation (which usually takes place before any of the other students return to campus) he could "disappear" for awhile without losing a semester.

After reading the latest posts: I feel really rotten. I hope I didn't chase you away, tg, with my irritating observations. There were some things about the movie that I wish had been done in a different way, but I did enjoy it. With a little more snogging, I would have liked it even more! :p
Oh, it takes a lot more than that to chase me away ;) !! Reading viewpoints that disagree with mine are part of what a good discussion is all about--makes me stop and figure out why a movie (or whatever) affects me the way it does. And it's interesting to find out why it affects other people the way it does.

The more I think about Jones, the more he reminds me of not only myself but people who were good friends of mine at that age. One of my best friends supported his mother and several younger siblings while he was still in high school (he worked nights as a hospital orderly and pulled down good grades during the day). I remember how excited he was when they could afford to get a phone--he would have been a little younger than Jones at that time. When I find myself thinking Jones is too young to be taking care of himself so well (IMHO his mother's remark along that line is ironic, although she might not realize it), I just think of Dean.

[BTW, "Snogging" is one of my favorite Britishisms--I've actually used it a couple of times and everyone thinks it's hilarious. IMO it's a "useful" word because it's somewhat indeterminate. Any term you'd use in American English lets you know immediately exactly what degree of "intimate contact" was going on. There are times in conversations when it's nice to be able to be a bit "fuzzy" :p .]

ainon

07-18-2003, 08:58 PM

Mariole, nice name. :)

Hobmom - WOW. I mean ... WOW! Your PowerDVD is getting maximum mileage and your products are absolutely, wonderfully stunning! Goodness, it'll take me many angst-stupored days to get through that collection so forgive me if I can't comment on any of the caps yet. Ooh, to gaze on all those Frodos. Oh, woe ... :D ((((Hobmom))))

I haven't been able to find any way to save .jpgs from PowerDVD so far. It is a bit tiresome to keep having to convert the images to .jpg in order to post but fortunately ACDSee makes it a quick and easy process. ACDSee is one programme I strongly recommend. Really. I'm not even being bribed to say so.

Originally posted by Mariole
Ainon, LOOOOOOVE your bonus Huck pics. THANK YOU for posting the director's commentary. It was delightful. Also thanks for the Dustin Hoffman comparison. Like I said, I don't normally follow actors or any other celebrities. It's usually pretty dull stuff.

Shows how much of a geek I am, huh? :D I actually really do read and watch actor interviews and stuff. Yes, most actors are dull :rolleyes: but Hoffman is quite interesting when you realise he does talk like that in RL, or at least when he's doing interviews. Anyway, while I'm primarily into angst and that's what really matters ;) , actors who excel brilliantly at comedy are people whose work I tend to follow as well. If an actor made me laugh before, even if it were a mediocre movie with a lame ending, I'll consider keeping up with his other stuff. Unless it's like, Adam Sandler in 'Little Nicky'. Although I did succumb and watch John Cusack in 'Serendipity' a couple of years ago, which did at least teach me a new word, so that movie wasn't all wasted. :p

Re: Frodo being the role of a lifetime, I remember Isaac Asimov complaining that, to many people, "Nightfall" (originally published in 1941) was still their favorite story of his. This is a man who has published over 200 books since. He said it was a bit depressing, but I think the fact remains that, when you do something truly brilliant, people will notice and love it forever. There are worse fates than doing something truly brilliant that people will love forever. I also hope very mightily that Elijah will continue his acting career. We have no idea what may lie in store in the future.

Totally agree. What you said about Isaac Asimov isn't much different from the Stephen King quote that always makes me chuckle. He talked about fans' opinion that his book 'The Stand' was his best work - it came out in late '70s/early '80s, I think - "... there's something a little bit depressing about such a united opinion that you did your best work twenty years ago, but we won't go into that just now, thanks." Guess them creative types all live with it. :D

Try 17

tg - I'm sorry for being such a pain about Jones. Upon rereading my posts, actually I was being quite mean, wasn't I? :( In retrospect it's clear that my dislikes are colouring my perception of him, and blocking me from wanting to know him any better. :o I'm a very internal person too, and very unlikely to be expressive, but I guess it don't work the same for me and Jones.

-------------------------------------------------------------------
edited remark because tg posted just before me:

Keep talking, tg, you're helping make Jones into a very interesting fellow, which is definitely very very cool! Cultural difference: the 'going away to college' stuff never struck me as a defining point in life because here, boarding school is quite common for kids. I never went to boarding school, but probably 1 out of 5 kids I knew in university would have spent at least five years of their teenage lives in dormitories. Getting accepted into tertiery education tends to be the life-defining point here, I think.
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Is Jones still in school? That's a mystery to be solved! Or do we vote on it? ;) I can't see how he can be, not with the life schedule he's keeping, but I don't think he's dropped out either, because his room at the campus is still available. I think that's what bugs me so - if rich kid don't want education then drop out and let someone else who really wants to learn take that place in school! Don't be so selfish brat like that! Sheesh. You can so tell I'm Asian. :p

/TRY 17

As Hobmom delights us with her enthusiastic plunge into RL-needn't-exist addiction (welcome, btw, to Cappers Annoymous. no, no, don't stop those caps. we're here to encourage you, not help you) I'll drop a couple more Huck caps here as we're on a new page already. Don't want Mariole to think she can go off gazing at Hobmom's caps and not do any froshadows. Although I defy her to find a froshadow for the second cap. :D

http://www.photobucket.com/albums/0603/ainon/Huckleberry%20Finn%20Page/90af56d0.jpg

the second Huck screencap for this page (http://www.photobucket.com/albums/0603/ainon/Huckleberry%20Finn%20Page/eaece3b1.jpg)

Tear-acting research is *always* a thrill. Are we talking just Frodo, or do we scour our discs for younger tears too?

Forgot to say this yesteryday: Hello and welcome, Winter! Delurk more! :)

Hobmom

07-19-2003, 03:03 AM

Capped-out but still going...

Tear-acting study....First tearful 'look' to the One-tear.....

http://www.angelfire.com/celeb2/elijahw/PDVD_031.jpg http://www.angelfire.com/celeb2/elijahw/PDVD_040.jpg http://www.angelfire.com/celeb2/elijahw/PDVD_041.jpg http://www.angelfire.com/celeb2/elijahw/PDVD_042.jpg http://www.angelfire.com/celeb2/elijahw/PDVD_044.jpg http://www.angelfire.com/celeb2/elijahw/PDVD_046.jpg http://www.angelfire.com/celeb2/elijahw/PDVD_047.jpg http://www.angelfire.com/celeb2/elijahw/PDVD_048.jpg

Notice the tear in his left eye that never falls! How does he do that?
Tear-acting study to be continued.

tgshaw

07-19-2003, 09:45 AM

Edit: I've forgotten to say this in the last two posts, so am editing it in. Little thing--but in the comparison of the two Osgiliath pics (angelic and otherwise), what stands out the most to me is the difference in the coloring. Maybe because I've gotten attuned to that so much from looking at TTT screencaps. The "angelic" pic is colored quite a bit like Lothlorien, which was said (in one of those making-the-movies books) to have the purpose of making it look "fragile." The Osgiliath pic that was actually used has the more realistic, almost more-than-realistic brown/gold coloring we get in scenes such as the Taming of Smeagol and less obviously in some others, where Frodo's being "tougher". I have no idea if this means a darned thing... :confused: ... but thought it was interesting enough to point out.

(((Hob mom))) -- Two of my favorite teary scenes [well, the second one is the favorite]. I've always loved that second-tear-that-doesn't-fall, too. It should probably be called the "two tear" shot, but that could get confusing ;) .

And while the first one is completely and solely movie-Frodo material (not that there's--necessarily--anything wrong with that ;) ), the second is very true also to book-Frodo (IMHO) who "realizes he's weeping" as the Fellowship escapes from Moria. The scenes that touch me the deepest in the movies seem to be those that tie me back into book-Frodo and all the emotions and memories that go with him--the scenes where I'm seeing "my" Frodo on the screen. (And the entire post-Moria scene is such a beautiful expression of the one sentence that Tolkien gives us about it--it's one place where I think even the Professor might have been happy with the interpretation :) .)

---------

Speaking of the Professor, I was thinking of him in relation to the "best work done at a young age" discussion. See, he knew how to do it right--spent his entire life on one story ;) .

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On following movie stars--I've never done that either (til now, of course :) ). When I look at my video collection, they're all ones I bought because I liked the specific movie regardless of who was in it. Now, if someone else looked at my collection, they might think I purposely buy Dustin Hoffman movies, but that wasn't even in my mind when I bought each of the ones I have--I just happened to like a lot of his movies! (The difference between that and "following" Elijah being found in the fact that I have no plans to buy Ishtar, but I do have The Animated Movie that Shall Not Be Named sitting on my shelf :p ).

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Mild Try 17 spoilers here to end of post--mostly notes on the American educational system :rolleyes:

ainon--yes, the U.S. educational system is quite different from yours. I don't personally know anyone who went to boarding school. I know someone who sent his sons to boarding school, but the school is just in a western suburb of Omaha, so they came home every weekend (he sent them there because he'd attended that school--but he'd been there because he was an orphan).

It may be somewhat different on the East Coast, since that's where most of the boarding schools are, but even there it's not the "normal" way of doing things (and as I understood it, Jones was in boarding school already during his primary education, which would be even more unusual). If someone goes to boarding school for secondary education, it almost always means one of two things: mucho money (so they go to an expensive, private, "prestigious" boarding school) or mucho trouble (their parents can't control them, so they send them off to a military-type boarding school to try to get them "straightened out"). This means the "ordinary" American teen is home with his or her family until the age of 17 or 18.

So, actually, you'll often see "boarding school" used in American movies as a way to spot parents who have a lot of money but don't want to "be bothered" by their kids--parents who provide their children with money but no sense of loving care, emotional support, or family ties. (Just one example of a blatant use of this symbolism is in Regarding Henry with Harrison Ford.) It's part of the "poor little rich kid" stereotype, and certainly not always true, but IMHO this is the "shorthand" we're being given when we're told that Jones has been in boarding school since he was a child--his grandfather has supported him financially but not in any "personal" way (and, specifically for Jones, his grandfather has also actively tried to keep him from becoming emotionally close to his mother--assuming we can believe what she tells Jones when she starts "getting honest" with him toward the end of the movie). BTW, the same inference would be made from his being at "summer camp" every year.

[One question/confusion: With Jones talking about a "will" and saying that the money "was" his grandfather's, it sounds as if gramps has died, but he seems to have made all the decisions about how Jones was raised. Recently deceased, maybe? Which--to totally read something into the story that we're in no way told :rolleyes: :p --would explain why Jones's mother is telling him the truth now, since gramps stood in the way before.]

On a separate point, for university ("college" here, but I think we've been through that before... :rolleyes: ), the idea of "giving up your place" wouldn't translate the same way. I'd written a "treatise" on how admissions and financial aid work at U.S. universities, but deleted it--let's just say that I doubt that whether or not Jones "formally" drops out will make any difference to someone else's education.

Mariole

07-19-2003, 11:48 AM

Happy weekend, all!

Hobmom, the thing that's so wonderful about your tear-acting study is that you have identified the "First tearful 'look'" in FOTR. It's interesting to me that our first hint of mistiness is not until halfway through the movie, considering what the poor blighter has been through. Yes, you may proceed to identify and post tearful looks. I'll just have to suffer through them. ;) For the One Tear scene, I can't help picturing the hilarity on the set when Elijah turned, with perfect timing in regards to the pan in, and let a tear fall just so on the exact horizon of his cheek. I'd say there were high fives all around after that take, IMHO.

Whahoo, I saw Chain of Fools last night! I just adored Mikey II! What a bizarre movie. Very black humor. No topic is sacred, and no profession safe. Cops, hitmen, dentists, barbers, curators, the press -- the movie mocks them all. To me it had a very "Into the Night" kind of feel to it. I remember really enjoying that movie when it came out in '85; I just looked it up and (re)discovered that Jeff Goldblum was in that one, too. IMDB describes it as a "sleeper" -- I think CoF could rate the same comment. I'd have fun discussing little Mikey if anyone wants to play. Or please point me to an earlier post if you already gave your thoughtful 2-bits' worth.

from Maeglian
all the cute kiddy role pics make me yearn all the more for new, grown up film roles for Elwood
YES YES YES YES YES YES YES!!! (And I mean that in a purely scholarly way.)

Looking at your pics this morning I especially noted the last one in your post above as utterly, totally swoonworthy. I mean, utterly convincing acting of anguish, sorrow, and fear.
I'm convinced. ;) Despite all these "beauties which pierce like swords" (to quote good old C.S.L.), I plan to hold out until the TTT EE. We'll see. (no rhyme intended.)

from Ainon
I defy her to find a froshadow for the second cap.
What's this? I'm being publicly defied?! I cannot let such a challenge go unanswered. I shall scour every screencap, freeze every frame, until a suitable Froshadow can be found. If all else failed, I would not hesitate to resort to a photomanip if I had the vaguest idea how to create one. Unfortunately, I must dash out the door in a few minutes, so this one will have to tide you over for now.

A shocking realization freezes Huck in mid-fight.

http://home.ricochet.com/mdes/limages/huckfist.jpg

Try 17 spoilers to end of post

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from tgshaw
"Ska-boy" probably isn't his first obnoxious roommate--just the first one he's been able to walk away from, which IMHO must have felt "empowering" in itself.
Yes, Jones enters this movie in the unusual position of having come into a windfall. What does he do with it? Take himself out of an abusive situation (that sounds fairly healthy to me), buy booze (that sounds extremely "17" to me!), set up an apartment for the first time in his life -- perhaps too economically, given Ma Mabley and her boys (very much a rite of passage), and experiment with writing. He's actually got quite a strength of character. The adolescent feuding with his mom he gives up during the film. I think he'll be okay.

I find myself thinking Jones is too young to be taking care of himself so well (IMHO his mother's remark along that line is ironic, although she might not realize it)
Regarding the mom, I think this is a classic case of people projecting what they don't want to realize about themselves onto another. Jones, the thing Blanche valued most, was taken away from her because she wasn't deemed capable of being a good mother. Ouch. And her web of lies about his father backfired on her, because it put Jones at an emotional distance from her. IMO the mom has just as much growing up to do as Jones. It's heartwarming that they both make significant breakthroughs in this area in the film.

from Ainon
Although I did succumb and watch John Cusack in 'Serendipity' a couple of years ago, which did at least teach me a new word, so that movie wasn't all wasted.
Ah, the things we do for love! (or fandom...)

Thank you for the Asian perspective on boarding school/education. Here in America most kids remain with their families until college, which is their first big separation. My first college roommate cried all that first night from homesickness. Jones is unusual in that he made that separation early. Edit: I see tg has explained quite a bit more about Americans and "boarding school." Thanks!

Hmm, not so sure if Jones didn't "want" his college education, so much as he entered it with different priorities. I like to think he'll take up a nice, sensible major one day, such as photography. ;)

from tgshaw
it sounds as if gramps has died, but he seems to have made all the decisions about how Jones was raised. Recently deceased, maybe?
Oh, yes, this was definitely my impression, part of the whole deal. Grandpa died, so Jones has "true" independence for the first time (vs just being a boarder in a school). What I failed to realize was the connection that might have on his mother -- allowing her to "confess" the truth about Jones parentage for the first time. (Realization dawns ... ooooohhh...)

The trunk kind of symbolized his whole life to me
Yay, we're back to the symbolism discussion! Okay, I'm really running out of time now, but I'll just jump in with this thought for the present. Both Jones and Jane enter this movie with "baggage."

For Jones, the baggage of his unresolved issues with his dad literally follow him around as baggage -- the trunk, the typewriter. As he drags the trunk behind him down the hallway, it leaves two great scars -- like the emotional scars Jones suffers. As he walks down the hall, is he even aware that his "scars" are showing? Or are these raw areas oh-so-visible to others, but Jones himself is unaware of how wounded he is?

When Jones invites Lisa into his apartment after he first moves in, he pats the trunk and says she can sit there. Lisa responds, "I don't know you well enough yet." This could be symbolic of Lisa's whole personality. She doesn't want to get into the pain of Jones' emotional past. She's involved in herself, and refuses to get sucked into anything deeper. She'll wait until Jones has prepared a nice, safe, impersonal place for her to sit before she'll come in.

Jane's baggage takes the form of her car. When she shows up she's wounded and hurting; her car sputters and dies at the curb, and she gives it a fierce kick. It's indicative of her relationship with Steve. On her first outing with Jones, the car is left behind ("Can you give me a ride?"), as she would have to leave Steve behind if she was to be with Jones. When she and Jones, driving in her car, finally talk about Steve, she literally has a wreck. When she breaks off with Jones, he allows her car to be abandoned and sabotaged, reflecting how he feels about their relationship. It's only later that we learn that this has in fact happened to Jane as well. Her relationship with Steve fell apart. She shows up in a shiny, whole new car, and off she and Jones ride into the sunset. Are we metaphorical, or what?

peaceweaver

07-19-2003, 12:54 PM

Good Lord, Hobmom, have mercy!!! Those huge images of the "one tear" are enough to stop my heart each time I scroll down this page. Just awesome.
But, please, don't stop!! ;)

Mariole, you have the most amazing eye! To find such wonderful froshadowings, sometimes in the most unlikely places! :k Oh, and I am happy to discuss Mikey in CoF anytime. It is one of my favorite pieces of Elwood film, because it demonstrates his comic timing so beautifully.

Speaking of comic timing, I just happened by the IMDB to discover that the role Elijah was "too old" for, in Thumbsucker, went to an 18 year old with one tv show to his credit, by the name of Lou Taylor Pucci. Keanu Reeves *is* playing the orthodontist, and Tilda Swinton the mom, while Vincent D'Onofrio is the dad. They are filming right now, in Portland! I know some of my colleagues had mixed feelings about the novel (which I loved), but my hopes for a good movie from this material are diminished, what with the lead character an unknown quantity.

Welcome back, Maeg! And hello to whiteling and winter!

Niphredil

07-19-2003, 02:18 PM

Faculty synchronicity! "Deep Impact" has just come on the TV!

Your Froshadowings are amazing!

Wonderful stuff, ladies. Keep it up.

Hobmom

07-20-2003, 01:48 AM

Tear-acting continued....

Edge of tears..
http://www.angelfire.com/celeb2/elijahw/PDVD_000.jpg
Barely holding them back..
http://www.angelfire.com/celeb2/elijahw/PDVD_001.jpg
Right-eye tear that never falls...
http://www.angelfire.com/celeb2/elijahw/PDVD_002.jpg
Waking up looking teary...http://www.angelfire.com/celeb2/elijahw/PDVD_003.jpg

The tears he thoought he couldn't work up because he was too nervous acting with Cate.

http://www.angelfire.com/celeb2/elijahw/PDVD_004.jpg http://www.angelfire.com/celeb2/elijahw/PDVD_005.jpg http://www.angelfire.com/celeb2/elijahw/PDVD_006.jpg http://www.angelfire.com/celeb2/elijahw/PDVD_007.jpg

The tears are little but they ARE there.

ainon

07-20-2003, 04:01 AM

Hobmom - Oooooh! LOVELY! :k I'm another one who loves that second tear that never falls, and I love the editing that cuts away from Frodo before the tear that does fall falls away from his cheek, and I love that one tear in Lothlorien that never falls. And geek that I am, I would love to find out someday how many takes it took to get that bit of perfection after Moria, and what Peter Jackson said to Elijah after he yells out 'Cut' for that perfect take.

I have nothing even close to approaching the wondrous visions Hobmom is sharing with us, but I thought I'd post some Elijah-as-Stu shots as comparison. Well, mainly because I had capped them so I have to post them somewhere and darn it all, Stu was just so *angsty* ... but let's all pretend I'm acting purely out of scholarly intent.

Stu (from 'The War'), each cap has him on the verge of crying:

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-7/280194/Stu-0tangis.JPG http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-7/280194/Stu-4tangis.JPG http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-7/280194/Stu-5tangis.JPG

---------------------------------------------

- Following up from Try 17 conversation. No spoilers. -

Originally posted by tgshaw
So, actually, you'll often see "boarding school" used in American movies as a way to spot parents who have a lot of money but don't want to "be bothered" by their kids--parents who provide their children with money but no sense of loving care, emotional support, or family ties.

Yeah, that I know, either from reading or from 'Facts of Life'. If anyone still remembers that show! :p There were movies, too, of course, to name just two: 'Scent of a Woman' and 'Dead Poets' Society'. The latter has this scene with Ethan Hawke at the end, where he stands up and says, "Captain, my Captain" -- that gets me bawling every time. But anyway, I'm didn't mean to imply that it's common for Malaysian kids to be in boarding school. It's just that kids from boarding school would have a higher probability of entering university. There're far, far more of us who never went to boarding school, and only leave home for 'college' ;) at about 17 (that's how old I was) or 19. Then there are the younger schoolkids who yearn to go to boarding school and so they go, but end up so homesick they cry themselves home within the first week and resume life as one of us ordinary folk who go to everyday schools. ;)

Mariole -- your metaphors are *deep*, man. I'm really digging 'em. :) I'm game for 'Chain of Fools' too. And fine, I'll grant you the brief reprieve before you meet my challenge. :D

Peaceweaver - thanks for the 'Thumbsucker' info. I'm not a fan of the book, but I was interested to see the movie. Oh well. Still boggles my mind that Elijah was considered too 'old'. :p

-------------------------------------------------

preview of ROTK preview at Comic-Con. - SPOILERS -

http://comingsoon.net/news.php?id=721

A host of hobbits, goblins and warriors dropped in on the San Diego Comic Convention today to premiere three minutes of a 12-minute preview of the third and final Lord of the Rings movie "The Return of the King". The full 12-minute sneak peek will be featured on the August 26 release of "The Two Towers" DVD. Prior to the preview, Elijah Wood, Sean Astin, Andy Serkis, Dominic Monaghan and others fielded questions from the crowd, then introduced a special taped message from Ian McKellen, Peter Jackson and Billy Boyd who are still in New Zealand filming pick-ups for the new film due in December. The trio expressed their regrets for not being at the Con, then introduced the new footage.

The footage begins where Two Towers ends. Gandalf telling the heroes that the battle for Helm's Deep was over, but the battle for Middle-Earth has just begun. Flash to Peter Jackson in the editing room discussing the battle that will take place on Pellenor Fields. Cut to several battle shots involving men on horses and orcs. Jackson then refers to Helm's Deep as an 'opening skirmish' when compared to the battles on Pellenor. The last shot is one of Pippen and Gandalf. Pippen asks, "Is there much hope for Frodo and Sam?" Gandalf answers: "There was never much hope. Just a fool's hope."

Elijah told the crowd that Frodo goes through a quite a change during the course of ROTK. He described it as a complete deterioration of himself to the point where he really is no longer Frodo. Elijah added that the third film is 'better than Fellowship and Two Towers combined.'

My note: could they, like *stop* spelling Pippin's name with that 'e'?! P - I - P - P - I - N. How hard is it to spell that?! Ehem. Sorry. Just had to get that off my chest. And having done that ... whoa. Angst. Major angst. Me happy ....

-----------------------------------------

tgshaw

07-20-2003, 08:38 AM

Hmmm.... Does there seem to be a slight slippage of the "No Frodo after Shelob" secrecy? First the Frodo in Orc Armor pics back up at ToyBiz (after being posted and taken down once already), then Elijah's comments in the last paragraph of the ComicCon report ainon just posted.

There probably are no worries that people who frequent ToyBiz and/or the ComicCon might not know the story--but the "Coming Attractions" site that posted the ComicCon report is pretty mainstream moviegoer stuff.

We wonders what's going to be in that preview on the TE DVD--which will certainly be seen by a lot of non-Tolkien-readers (unlike the SE later on). Is NewLine "spilling the beans?" :confused: ...We wonders.

----------

More lovely pics, Hobmom. I've always loved (have to find another way of saying that :rolleyes: ) the shot where Frodo watches Galadriel approach for the first time--but I've never noticed that tear. I've always seen his expression there as one of pure wonder--but there must be something else going on, too. Will have to ponder (and the "visual aid" certainly helps :) ).

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CofF talk? Love to :) ! I may have to take another look to refresh my memory...

----------Possible Try 17 spoilers here to end of post

ainon--I did notice that you said about 1 out of 5 university students had gone to boarding school, so I realized the majority hadn't, but I guess I was trying to defend Jones against the charge of being a rich spoiled brat, which isn't how he came across to me :o . It does sound as if it's quite a bit harder to get accepted into university in Malaysia than it is in the U.S.

Mariole--I'm afraid I wasn't taking the "baggage" symbolism quite that deeply :p -- I just saw the trunk as a reminder that Jones has never settled down anywhere. Hadn't thought of Jane's car that way at all, though--interesting take.

This is more "theme" than "symbolism," but I'm still wondering if Blanche's comment about "Boys always chase girls who remind them of their mothers" isn't more important than it first seems. Are we supposed to see Jane's relationship with Steve as paralleling the one between Jones's parents? Is that what Jones wants to "rescue" her from?

Mariole

07-20-2003, 02:35 PM

Okay, dear Facultites, hang on to your encyclopedias, because the geek quotient on this board is about to go through the roof.

All these comparison pics of Nat, Huck, Stu, and so on really got me thinking. You are invited to view the frightening result, Froshadowing through the ages, starring Elijah Wood in, well, almost every movie of his that you've ever seen. If you think you can handle it, click the link below to find out what a truly fixated mind can produce.

http://home.ricochet.com/mdes/limages/frolist.html

Caution for dial-up users: This page is heavily image intensive, and weighs in at about 350K.

Peaceweaver, thanks for the info on Thumbsucker. I looked up Lou Taylor Pucci to see how old he looks. Here he is with Director Mike Mills, vs. Elijah goofing at Comic-con yesterday. I do have to say, Elijah looks older.

http://home.ricochet.com/mdes/limages/loulij.jpg

from tgshaw
Does there seem to be a slight slippage of the "No Frodo after Shelob" secrecy?
Someone who was at Comic-con would have a better feel for this, but just based on the reports I read, I don't think Elijah is saying anything different from what I've heard him say before. He's talked about Frodo self-destructing in various interviews. Even if they had footage of Sam and him plodding across Mordor, the uninitiated would have no way of knowing (or would likely remember) if these plodding shots take place before or after the Lair. I also try to keep in mind that each LOTR trailer so far has shown footage that doesn't in fact end up in the movie (some of the trailers for FOTR in fact previewed scenes from ROTK, Merry's allegiance to Theoden, for example). I don't know if anyone but an uber-fan will study the orc armor. It's possible that New Line will spill the beans at some future point, but IMHO (that's "hopeful opinion," in this case), there's at least reasonable doubt that the point is here yet.

Try 17 spoiler comment

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I didn't notice a parallel between Jane's relationship with Steve and Jones's parents myself. I don't think Jones is trying to rescue Jane. I think something about her infatuates him from the get-go. There are certainly many similarities between Jane and Blanche, so that part I do believe is present, no matter how oedipal that might seem!

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End of Try 17 spoilers

And now, back by popular request, is more...

Huck Angst!

Huck looks askance at someone that he expects will try to hurt him.

http://home.ricochet.com/mdes/limages/hlook.jpg

And for Ainon's special Huck "challenge" cap:

Huck paddles away from all he has known, toward whatever might lie ahead.

http://home.ricochet.com/mdes/limages/huckchal.jpg

This may not be the greatest match, but Huck smirks a lot. There isn't a lot of smirking in Lord of the Rings.

Bridget Chubb

07-20-2003, 03:28 PM

Mariole - wow! Your Froshadowings (especially "Froshadowing Through The Ages") are so so cool!:cool: :D I love them!

And Hobmom - wonderful Frodo caps!:) :)

I have a request. I watched "Paradise" this weekend, and little Elijah in his school uniform at the beginning is the cutest. thing. I. have. ever. seen!!! Good thing I was at home alone, because I think I really might have scared my family if they'd heard all the "awwww! That is SOOO CUTE! AWWW!" etc. etc. issuing from the family room.:o :o Anyway - does anyone have the ability to screencap "Paradise"? I'd be much obliged!:) :k

LetYourLoveShin

07-20-2003, 03:39 PM

Hi! I'm the "webviewer" mentioned earlier who was asking about screencap programs. I have the PowerDVD program that my computer came with, but I can't seem to figure out how to do screencaps on it. Could anyone possibly help me step-by-step? Or maybe the PowerDVD that comes on Dell computers just doesn't include that feature. Maybe there is an upgrade I need somewhere...

Any help would be wonderful.

Kelsey

P.S. Go Elijah!
P.S.S. Sorry, couldn't resist...
P.S.S.S. If someone helps me figure this out I'll post lthe oads of screencaps I am planning...

peaceweaver

07-20-2003, 04:00 PM

mariole: that page of froshadowings is amazing! And your commentary is wonderful! :k

Oh and thanks for finding the photos of Lou Taylor Pucci AND the comic-con pix! Wish I had had an excuse to go to that convention.....
You know, seeing those pictures from comic-con reminds me that Elijah has probably put on the Frodo wear for the last time...:( I don't know why, it makes me sad.

Hi LYLS: welcome to the Faculty Lounge! I am sure that one of my more technically brilliant colleagues can help you! :)

tgshaw

07-20-2003, 04:45 PM

Originally posted by Mariole
[b]Try 17 spoiler comment

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[quote]I didn't notice a parallel between Jane's relationship with Steve and Jones's parents myself. I don't think Jones is trying to rescue Jane...
IIRC, Jones actually says to Jane at one point, "I could rescue you," but of course I have no memory of what the circumstances are :rolleyes: .

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End of Try 17 spoilers

Huck looks askance at someone that he expects will try to hurt him.
And isn't he in a rowboat?

[This may not be the greatest match, but Huck smirks a lot. There isn't a lot of smirking in Lord of the Rings.
:D Well, maybe not if we're talking about Frodo (after he leaves Hobbiton, anyway), but there are those "Smirking Sons of Gondor." :p

LYLS--Glad you found your way here :) ... I'm sure before long people will start staggering, bleary-eyed out of the Screencappers Anonymous meeting... ready for a fix :p .

I actually did some other work on my computer this afternoon :eek: , now that there are so many caps coming from all around. See, I only screencap when there's a need to fill... yep... uh-uh... ;) .

Bridget--The deal is, I don't think Paradise has ever been on DVD--or even VCD--so most people wouldn't be able to screencap it. There are a few wizards around who have some kind of magical ability to get screencaps from VHS tapes, but I have no idea how they spin that gold :( . I have a few promo pics from that movie, but nothing showing the school uniform.

Maeglian

07-20-2003, 05:11 PM

Hi and welcome LYLS! :)

Hobmom, you are killing me! In the very best way, of course. :cool:

Mariole, I bow down in awe before your Froshadowings through the Ages. Amazing! Especially the Flipper one. That's one of the first Froshadowings anyone's managed from Flipper, I think, and it's darn funny. (Well there is the whole Shark attack / watcher in the water thing, but I've never seen any picture comparisons of that.)

And thank you for the 2 Osgiliath Fro comparisons. No doubt in my mind which one *should* have been in the film; - never mind the grimy realism of what we got. Also interesting to note what a huge difference the (post-production?) colour grading of the scenes make. I love the blue color of Angelic Frodo.

Interesting to read the various ComiCon reports that keep popping up. Nothing much really *new* there, though, it seems. New Line and Weta and the actors aren't exactly throwing huge spoilers around with abandon...... Oh well, all the greater appreciation and awe when we actually get to see the film. Just 5 more months! :D

Good to see EJW and the others seeming to have a lot of fun during their appearance.

tgshaw

07-20-2003, 06:12 PM

Thought I was done here for today, but just did a little nosing around at amazon.com and see ESOTSM is due for "limited release" on Nov. 14. Nothing about when the rest of us will get to see it. Interesting, though--the only reason I know of for a movie to have a limited release late in the year is to be Oscar eligible. I'm not holding my breath on that, though...

The All I Want blurb at amazon now isn't exactly a "pre-order." It's "Give us your email address and we'll let you know when it's available." It also mentions that doing so will be a "vote" for the studio to release the DVD. :confused: Not sure what that's all about.

...except that it's more evidence that all those "brilliant" marketing minds in the film industry just don't get it! I love those little "people who were interested in this movie were also interested in..." notations at amazon, because they can really tell you what's going on in the minds and hearts of the customers. Every movie linked with All I Want was an Elijah Wood movie. Every director that was linked to "people who bought films directed by..." had directed an Elijah Wood movie (gee, wonder which ones people were buying by those directors :confused: ;) ). Clicked over to the release news on ESOTSM, and every movie linked with it as "also interested in" was an Elijah Wood movie. Mandy Moore? Jim Carrey? Who're they? Get a clue, guys... and make Elijah's movies available where people can buy them! If someone had told me a few years ago that I'd become a regular customer of yesasia.com... :rolleyes: (ainon, that Asian educational system must be doing something right--teaching good taste in actors, anyway ;) :) .)

BTW, any news on Happy Feet lately? :p

nurse

07-20-2003, 09:48 PM

I would love to see cap comparisons of the three Secret Sam Smiles. Hobmom has the TTT one on her page 44 (the last 4 caps):
http://groups.msn.com/ElijahSummer03/shoebox.msnw?Page=44

(Sorry I cant figure how to post a cap from there, if its ok with Hobmom, maybe someone can let me know).

Another lovely Teary scene is on p. 30 (ttt20111 and following) of Hobmoms screencaps: http://groups.msn.com/ElijahSummer03/shoebox.msnw?Page=30

I think its you must let me go!

My curiosity is piqued. How do you screencap from a VHS? Or is that a trade secret?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
MARIOLE----You Fro-show queen! When I saw the ones from Internal Affairs the other day I *jokingly* thought, now if someone could find one from Back to the Future Id be REALLY impressed. I definitely saved Froshadowing through the Ages. (whoops, gotta add Froshadow to the spellcheck directory).

Chain of Fools spoilers:

.

.

.

I watched some of CofF today and saw something I hadnt before. The three versions of Senator Doves demise are not the only POV changes. Someone had previously mentioned that it was hard to think of Mikey II as an innocent since he so callously kicked the transvestites (sorry, cant remember name) leg to see if s/he was dead, watched Bollingsworth die and, I might add, smashed the chair over the bar patron. Tonight I realized that, in the second showing of Mikey entering Avnets apt, he gently pushed his toe into the transvestites bum instead of kicking her. Changes things, a bit. Has anyone noticed any other changes?

I also realized that, if we include Lord of the Rings (a la, from the Red Book) and Chain of Fools, Try 17 (much prefer the original title also, tg) is at least the third EW movie where the movie viewer doesnt necessarily always see exactly what happened. That is if Im reading my Try 17 spoilers correctly in regards to Jones letter writing.
Im exempting any stories told in first or second person.

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End of Chain of Fools spoilers.

Welcome LYLS! Im looking forward to your screencaps once youre up and running! Im woefully lacking in that knowledge and software and hardware :(
Uh, Ive got a few FOTR DVDs......

Ainon-------Dead Poets Society is one of my all-time favorite movies! I wonder if Elijah likes it. It seems like an Elijah kind of movie.

Tg---Im also dumbfounded about film industry marketing decisions regarding EW movies. Maybe its because so few have a stereotypical Hollywood!Ending, not to mention stereotypical characters or themes. The big releases I can think of, other than LOTR, were his more stereotypical ones: Deep Impact, Faculty, Flipper.

Does anyone know enough about Tobey Maguire to be able to compare his post Ice Storm roles with Elijahs? I was going to say that his were more big Hollywood stereotypes with little character arcing, then I realized that I had little info. Anyone?

edit-tg--maybe Elijah Wood fans are more likely to visit Amazon.com than Jim Carrey or Mandy Moore fans :)

Hobmom

07-20-2003, 10:14 PM

Tg-The All I Want blurb at amazon now isn't exactly a "pre-order." It's "Give us your email address and we'll let you know when it's available." It also mentions that doing so will be a "vote" for the studio to release the DVD. Not sure what that's all about.

Yup that's what it says! We have to vote if we want the studio to release it!!!!!!

What is WRONG with these studio ececs? Don't they know that Elijah has a huge fan-base? What planet do they live on?

Now we have to BEG them to release his films!!!

OK I'm ranting. I preordered All I Want and now I may not even get it! I NEED it! I MUST get good big shiney caps of every scene!!!!!

This just stinks! Go vote for All I Want folks. It looks like we have no other choice.:mad:

OK....Simmering down.. a little...

Sorry if my pics site doesn't allow direct linking. That's just how MSN works. Not my idea. And it's free. If you want to save the pics you can but then you have to repost them to your own picture hosting site to be able to direct link to them.

nurse

07-20-2003, 10:41 PM

Originally posted by Hobmom
Sorry if my pics site doesn't allow direct linking. That's just how MSN works. Not my idea. And it's free. If you want to save the pics you can but then you have to repost them to your own picture hosting site to be able to direct link to them. [/B]

Ok, thanks, I'm new at all this. But I'm enjoying my education!:)

Thanks again for the mucho mucho great screencaps!!

Hobbits Rule!

07-20-2003, 10:51 PM

http://home.earthlink.net/~westmoon/_uimages/swimminghole.jpg
Just follow this link for details: Community Cafe Swimming Hole Hoedown (http://www.khazaddum.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2105)
Please come everybody, lets make the 23rd a night to remember, and who knows, and maybe the 24th, 25th, 26th ...
~CCSHHPC, or more commonly know as the Community Café Swimming Hole Hoedown Preparations Committee, (aka, me and Maggie (MsMaggot) of Brandy Hall :D)

I hope the Faculty isnt too studious to party. Come on over on Wednesday, let your hair down and have a good old time.

Bridget Chubb

07-21-2003, 12:58 AM

Welcome, Kelsey!:) I have PowerDVD, too, and (assuming your PowerDVD is the same is mine), it's very easy to use.:) On the control panel that shows up while the movie's playing, there's a little button with a picture of a camera. Just click the camera button to get the screencap, then go to any image editing program (I just use MS Paint), then click on Edit -> Paste. (Or just right-click and click Paste.) Your screencap should appear in Paint (or whatever you use), and then you can resize it or change it to a .jpg or whatever you want!:)

Originally posted by tgshaw
Bridget--The deal is, I don't think Paradise has ever been on DVD--or even VCD--so most people wouldn't be able to screencap it. There are a few wizards around who have some kind of magical ability to get screencaps from VHS tapes, but I have no idea how they spin that gold :( . I have a few promo pics from that movie, but nothing showing the school uniform.

Yeah, I was afraid that might be the case.:( I looked on Google Image Search, too, but there are very few "Paradise" pics out there, seemingly. Oh well. Thanks anyway, tg!:k

There's a shark in "Flipper"?? No way!:eek: :eek:

Hmm. Well, I guess it's about time I sucked it up and watched "Flipper," despite the not-quite-rave reviews.:o You know. For the Cause.:o ;)

- Bridget, your local crazy cloud/shark/prison movie swooner:rolleyes: :p

ainon

07-21-2003, 04:55 AM

Welcome Kelsey! Sit down, put your feet up, tell us all about your favourite movies. Pleased to meet another new addict ... I mean ... Friend. Nice, new Friend with Bright Pretty Screencaps. :cool:

Originally posted by Bridget Chubb
I have PowerDVD, too, and (assuming your PowerDVD is the same is mine), it's very easy to use.:) On the control panel that shows up while the movie's playing, there's a little button with a picture of a camera. Just click the camera button to get the screencap, then go to any image editing program (I just use MS Paint), then click on Edit -> Paste. (Or just right-click and click Paste.) Your screencap should appear in Paint (or whatever you use), and then you can resize it or change it to a .jpg or whatever you want!:)

(((Bridget))) It's even easier than that. :) My PowerDVD is an older Version 2.55 but it should work the same - find some way so to get to Configuration (or simply use Ctrl-c on your keyboard) --- select the Capture tab. You'll have options to capture to clipboard; capture to wallpaper; capture to file. Select Capture to File, and then browse and pick the folder you want your caps to land in. Once you've done that, you're ready to go. Each time you click on that little camera icon (alternatively you can use the 'c' key on your keyboard) your precious screencap will be saved directly to your specified folder without you having to do anything extra! This makes frame-by-frame screencapping a breeze because basically all you have to do is click frantically on the little camera icon as the scene plays through. ;) Then, once you're happy with all the sights you've captured, just go to that folder, sift through the .bmp files, and convert the ones you'd like to post into .jpg by using Paint or any other image managing programme.

Um, if any part of that didn't make much sense just thwap me on the head and tell me talk slower. :o

-----------------------

Nope, not many Paradise caps. These were the best I could find during lunch break:

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-7/93723/53.jpg

http://home.villagephotos.com/2003-7/13204/a'in/021.jpg

http://home.villagephotos.com/2003-7/13204/a'in/031.jpg

http://home.villagephotos.com/2003-7/13204/a'in/101.jpg

http://home.villagephotos.com/2003-7/13204/a'in/401.jpg

He was so very cute! But that was the only one uniform pic there was.

--------------

Mariole, you genius! Love the captions, love the Froshadows, and oh fine, I'll grant you that Frodo ain't much of a smirker on a boat, but the one you got makes up for it with sufficient angst allotment. :D Btw, Maeg, there is too an earlier froshadow from 'Flipper' - I'll see what I can do about digging around my harddisk to get it out again. Yeah, Bridg - there was a shark in that movie. Nowhere near as charming as Bruce, but then the poor guy in 'Flipper' never got enough screentime no how, what with the typecasting against him, and Elijah and that cute flippin' dolphin hogging the screen. :D

And thanks, Mariole, for the comparison pics between the former Thumbsucker and the new one. Elijah does indeed look much older - slipped right out of the desired age group look, looks like. Oh well. And he's got a crew-cut. Again. Groan.

As for the spilling of RotK beans - IMO the hobbits are a very tight-lipped bunch who are very unlikely to tell us anything beyond the usual vague hints, at least until the real publicity tour begins. Remember the FotR Actors' Commentary, when we see Sam drowning and Sean Astin explains that that was 'dry-for-wet' filming, and how he felt doing it, worrying whether or not it'd work -- did Elijah say a single word about him doing that whole dry-for-wet thingy too? Nope. He said not a word. OK, so that's not, like, proof that they aren't going to blab (and I wouldn't mind at all if they did, just for us) but I guess they're very aware of what counts as spoilers and what's not. Which makes it tough for us starving-for-info people. Sigh.

---------------------

nurse, I think I remember that foot detail from 'Chain of Fools'. It's been some while since I watched that movie though, so I think I best go do some intensive homework now. ;)

Hobmom, just PM me if you'd like. :)

BLOSSOM

07-21-2003, 07:07 AM

Brilliant, brilliant screencaps everyone - Mariole, ainon, Hobmom. Keep them coming. Congratualtions Hobmom on finally getting your capping software.

Have you all seen the Comicon report from Shirebound over at Torn?

Here are a couple of relevant quotes:
'I have to say that even from where I was sitting (12th row) you could tell that Elijah Wood has the most incredibly intensely blue eyes ever to be put on this earth... Sean Astin urged Elijah to do his 'Ringwraith Scream' sound effect, and he did, and it was absolutely right on. He is a wonderful mimic.'

and...
'The main focus of the 3-minute clip was Frodo and Sam looking haggard and at the end of their strength (somewhere). Sean Astins voice came over to say, Wait and see where Elijah goes with this role, and Elijah Wood said, What we see is the complete deterioration of Frodo, until hes no longer Frodo. He also said that he feels that ROTK is better than the first two movies, combined.'
__________________________________________________

'Wait and see where Elijah goes with this role.' Don't you all just love the sound of that?:)

A VCD of 'Try 17' dropped through my letterbox last week, courtesy of Shireling - :k I have watched it twice so far, and must admit to being pleasantly surprised.

'TRY 17' SPOILERS:

Things I liked:

Jones
Jane
Brad

Lines: Jones to Blanche, 'Are you making anyone miserable on a daily basis?' - his way of asking her if she had a boyfriend.

Brad to Jones on Jane leaving to be with Steve: '... It's a biological weakness for the black leather slash guitar playing type. I've experienced bouts of it myself.'

I think it was Prim who said that to a woman like Jane, a teenager like Jones would have to at least be 'interesting' as well as cute for her to be attracted to him. (Hope that was what you said, Prim, if it was you :confused: ) Anyway, I think Jane was genuinely 'interested' in Jones from the start, though maybe not in the 'getting together' sense. As a photographer, she saw something in that photo she took - she called it 'the pain,' that she identified with, and so became drawn to him. I found their progressing relationship quite touching. I'm not very good at recognising symbolism and such, and I'm not sure why Jane tried to burn the photograph in the dark-room - any ideas, Mariole? Your thoughts on the 'baggage' they both carried with them was interesting.

I thought there was subtle humour here, and I do like EW's understated style, though I can see how some think that maybe he didn't put so much 'energy' into the role as he could have. I'm not a fan of huge, loud, manic comedic acting, so EW's style here does work for me.

I like the scene in the car when Jones is driving Jane to Steve's, and she begins reading the letter his mother left him. She had laughed at Jones's letters to his father, thinking they were 'hysterical,' but she seems genuinely moved by his mother's letter. I was moved by this scene, and by Jones's changing expression as he listened to her reading the letter as he drove.
I did notice that our boy's kissing technique has improved too - though I still maintain that Barney's kiss with Cassie in 'Bumblebee' was meant to look as inexperienced as it does.

I'm sure there's lots more to take note of, but these are some of the things that stayed with me from the first couple of viewings.

END OF 'TRY 17' SPOILERS

Seeing how everyone seems to be enjoying all the caps - including me - I thought I'd share a couple of angsty Frodo collages with you all. Here goes:

http://www.imagemagician.com/images/blossom/PreMoria2.jpg

and

http://www.imagemagician.com/images/blossom/WhatmustIdo2.jpg

Bye.

tgshaw

07-21-2003, 07:34 AM

'TRY 17' SPOILERS:

Originally posted by BLOSSOM

Anyway, I think Jane was genuinely 'interested' in Jones from the start, though maybe not in the 'getting together' sense. As a photographer, she saw something in that photo she took - she called it 'the pain,' that she identified with, and so became drawn to him. I found their progressing relationship quite touching. I'm not very good at recognising symbolism and such, and I'm not sure why Jane tried to burn the photograph in the dark-room - any ideas, Mariole?
Something I didn't "put together" until the second time through is that it's right after Jane looks at the picture of Jones on the roof that she picks up the phone and calls Steve (and hangs up). I got the feeling she was trying to get Jones out of her mind--or transfer her feelings for him back to Steve. Don't know if this has anything to do with her trying to burn the picture, but it seems possible--any thoughts? But, yes, I'd agree there's some kind of interest there from the beginning--just from Jane's face after Lisa says, "Your stalker has furniture."

END OF 'TRY 17' SPOILERS

By request ;) -- here are the three "Secret Sam Smiles" :

http://www.imagemagician.com/images/tgshaw/Previous movies/cap0998-85-crop.jpg

http://www.imagemagician.com/images/tgshaw/Previous movies/cap0986-85.jpg

http://www.imagemagician.com/images/tgshaw/Previous movies/tttcap_1195.jpg

Blossom--both collages are wonderful--the second one should be an "official poster" :) .

ainon

07-21-2003, 08:33 AM

I knew I had that early Flipper Froshadowing. I'm sure you all know where it shadows to. ;)

http://www.photobucket.com/albums/0603/ainon/bfa9dd08.jpg

Nowhere near as brilliant as Mariole's (Paul Hogan as Sam Gamgee ... I don't know whether to be scared out of my wits or to laugh myself hysterical. Btw, I love some of your filenames: 'lice.jpg' is definitely a favourite. And I found the bonus Nat Froshadowings that you didn't post. Love 'em too. :D ) but I thought I ought to mention it in order to promote one of Flipper's more encouraging 'virtues'. :p And there's that way Sandy sits too - I've never found any screencaps of it though - that's very Froshadowy for BookFrodo. MovieFrodo has yet to sit in that position.

Oh, and have a sleepingStu froshadowing too, while we're at it.

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-7/280194/Stutidur.JPG

Blossom, those collages are beautiful! The angstiness beyond words. I'll just shut up and go gaze mistfully now. ;) Thank you. :k

And it's just perfect that tg's Secret Sam Smiles are back too. :)

whiteling

07-21-2003, 09:47 AM

Hi Kelsey, and welcome to the Faculty Lounge :) !

Just want to say a big big THANK YOU for all the wonderful screencaps and comments! :k -- Mariole, I fell off my chair when I saw Armin Müller-Stahl as Gandalf... he's also one of my favourite actors, but alas, there's always a generation gap in relation to my favourites - much too old or much too young :D. *sigh*

'Wait and see where Elijah goes with this role.' Don't you all just love the sound of that?:)

Ooooooooooh yes!!! Can't wait until December! I burst with curiosity!! Aaah! (Oops, sorry, I immediately sit down and arrange my school uniform :o ...)

(((Faculty))), go ahead with research!

Brunhild

07-21-2003, 10:06 AM

Could there be a slight hint of complacency in the "Secret Sam Smile No 3"? A comparison pic is attached.

erendis

07-21-2003, 10:18 AM

I'm still pretty suspcious about this "No post-Shelob" spoilers policy from New Line. I don't believe this policy exists in any codified way, except in the minds of the fans. For all the newbie knows, that vague spider thing they've been hearing about could live on the slopes of Mount Doom. Therefore, you can show all the Deteriorating!Frodo you want, as long as you don't show the footage in such as way as to convery to the newbie that there even *is* a Pre-Shelob and Post Shelob Frodo.

Besides, New Line has already shown that Sammath Naur footage at 2001 Cannes. The cat's already out of the bag for those who want to know.

Elevensies

07-21-2003, 10:36 AM

Hey, kids, if we can expect a bunch more screencappers, then let me ask again that you all try to help Moggy out by not overloading his bandwidth. For one thing, please resize the pics small enough that they don't stretch the window. And if you want to post bunches of them, it will help everyone if you post them as links rather than images. It's easy enough for someone to click the link to see the pic. This also saves everyone's browser from having to load the pic every time you open the thread. Also, this helps people with limited bandwidth on their pic-hosting site, as each person will view the pic only once, rather than it loading every time they open the thread.

Finally, I would ask posters who do use a lot of bandwidth to consider sending Moggy some support. This a money-losing venture for him, and it would be nice if the people who use this site the most helped him out. Thanks. :)

Mariole

07-21-2003, 11:08 AM

from peaceweaver
You know, seeing those pictures from comic-con reminds me that Elijah has probably put on the Frodo wear for the last time... I don't know why, it makes me sad.
Well, I know why. No more Frodo! (whimpers ... *sniff!*)

Edit:Thank you for your kind words, Peaceweaver. I hope you get to see Try 17 very soon!
Short version of rant that was removed: The Daily Mail, article linked on TORN, reports that Aragorn "dominates" ROTK. :(

Bummer about ESOTSM's "limited release" -- and this right after the Try 17 DVD waffle. (Thanks for your research, tg.) What is wrong with the world that it is so hard to get a little Elijah out to the masses?

Okay, on to the positives.

I adored Shirebound's Comic-con report -- I'm so glad that she dashed that off despite being exhausted. It was one of the best con reports I've ever read -- but then, she's a fiction writer, and knows how to put sentences together with emotional impact. Yea! I also liked the CoE report where the Grey Pilgrim (IIRC) says that, when the picture of a distressed Frodo came on the screen, the audience gasped. That must be so cool for the actors to experience; they hardly ever get direct feedback for their work.

Blossom, I love your angsty collages! Why aren't you working at New Line? Wow. :cool:

I love the Secret Sam Smiles, tg. Oh, look, I'm happy again! :) (Sorry, Brunhild, I can't comment on the comparison, as I've never seen that episode of Homicide. Maybe someday!)

Bridget, go ahead; watch Flipper for the cause. ;) I'll be holding your hand. (You can do this...) (Actually, the hard part is trying to look casual when you rent it...)

Welcome, LYLS. We're a little scary here, but mostly harmless. :p

Per tg's comment about the coloring of the film: I think this is a very big part of the "mood." George Lucas said that he tried to get 3 main colors going in each of his films to distinguish locations. For example, the Return of the Jedi emphasized brown/black/green for Tatooine/Death Star/Endor. I think PJ was going for the same kind of thing; each area of Middle Earth gets its own color treatment. I think he may have overdone it in the second film, however; I agree with one reviewer who thought the look of TTT was a little too monochromatic. I think we needed a bit more natural light in there to relieve the weariness of this war. I'm sure it was deliberate on PJ's part. I'm expecting that even if ROTK starts out dark and flat, it will green up a bit for the very end. We won't have dull, dark colors throughout.

Pertinent to the angel picture, though, Osgilliath seems to be shadowy blue from a distance, but greenish/black while you're there. Although PJ may have treated (or shot) some of these scenes twice. Frodo definitely looks less grimy in the "angel" picture.

from ainon
Paul Hogan as Sam Gamgee ... I don't know whether to be scared out of my wits or to laugh myself hysterical.
That's part of the fun of this. In Forever Young I enjoyed casting Mel Gibson in turn as Gollum, the Witch King, and the Watcher in the Water, particularly as he was so cute and vulnerable in that film. My filenames are chosen to present the least typing possible, but I do gravitate toward puns. It's a personal weakness.

Please keep those screencaps and suggestions coming! I enjoy a little Froshadowing in the evening. I decided to track them all behind the main Froshadowing page (as ainon discovered), but I'll post new additions here first. (Per the "challenge" Huck pic, yes, they're both in rowboats for that shot. And yes, how could anyone forget the "Smirking Sons of Gondor," particularly Faz? Perhaps it would be more correct to say that, despite Faramir's bold contribution, the overall smirk-to-anguish ratio in LOTR remains rather lopsided.) :D

nurse, so glad I surprised you with the Back to the Future cap. I wanted to get something for all the movies I'd seen, although some were more of a stretch than others! I look forward to some detailed capping (and discussion) of Chain of Fools, as I've now got the VCD (yes, I must explore the constant retelling of history in that -- how fun!). I was going to hold off on Try 17/All I Want, but if the studio is going to be a doofus about releasing it, I may have to start capping that as well.

Elevensies, your announcement has been heard and shall be obeyed. :k

Try 17 spoilers to end of post

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.

.

Blossom, you've listed my favorite characters as well. Brad was a gem!

from tgshaw
Jones actually says to Jane at one point, "I could rescue you"
Ack! I have no memory of this. What a slip-up. :o I must review.

from Blossom
I'm not sure why Jane tried to burn the photograph in the dark-room - any ideas, Mariole?
Uh, well, yeah. It gets pretty deep, though. Here, put on your waders.

It's just a bit more along the lines of what tg stated, about Jane already being attracted to Jones (I love her examples). So my take is, Jane's living in denial about Steve -- loving him, hoping he'll change, wanting him back for the good things he was, yet in her heart she knows that he won't change and is likely to hurt her again, which is why she broke off with him in the first place (any of this sound familiar, anyone who has ever loved the wrong man?).

Jones is an easy target. He's a virtual stranger, but his faults and his pain and his openness are right out there undisguised, bang, in her face. Yes, his pain attracts her, but there's something more -- something very honest about him that Steve can't provide. And being hurt, that honesty is very attractive to her. But she doesn't want to be attracted right now, not to Jones or anybody else. So she tries to burn his photograph. But the fire won't take -- she can't put Jones out of her mind so easily. When she persists, she's the one who gets burned. She solaces herself as she usually does -- numbing the pain with the icy fluid in her glass.

peaceweaver

07-21-2003, 01:17 PM

arrgghhh. I can't tell you how hard it is to skip over the Try17 discussion, but I am still waiting to see it. Any day now. I simply cannot believe that yet another movie studio is stupid enough not to release another EW film. :mad:

But in the meantime, I just discovered that here in the US the Bravo network is broadcasting "Internal Affairs" tonight! :) Now, I know that EW was only, like 9 years old when this film was made, and that the part is small. But it is one of the few films he made that I haven't seen yet, and in the interest of thoroughness...well, we all make sacrifices in the name of research. ;) I tried to check tg's site to see where it places in her ranking of Wood's movies, but I couldn't get in. :(

mariole, WE all know who the hero of RoTK is, and PJ has said several times that Frodo is the hero. The journalists may be making assumptions from the trailers that New Line seems to be permitting certain folks to see. So don't despair.

By the way, for those doing tear research, don't forget the wonderful sobs Mikey delivers in Chain of Fools! I guffaw each time I see that scene! :p

Bridget Chubb

07-21-2003, 02:53 PM

ainon, thanks for the Paradise pictures!:k Cutest thing ever.:D And thanks for the info on PowerDVD - I taught myself how to use it, so I wondered if I was doing it the hard way.:p

peaceweaver, "Internal Affairs" was on here the other night. It's not...that bad.:rolleyes: I mean, the wrinkly guy and the emotional-baggage lady and their relationship do get kind of old.:rolleyes: But there's also lots of Elijah.;) tgshaw's mentioned the "Peter Pan" scenes in that movie before - I liked them a lot too.:) Especially as I'm on a "Pirates of the Caribbean" kick right now.:o Woohoo!

Mariole: thanks for the "Flipper" encouragement. I'll try to be strong.:D

Brunhild, I don't see any complacency in SSS #3. Frodo looks tired, and sad - he's been through so much but Sam is still able to raise his spirits a little bit and make him smile. swoon. Ahem.:o In your comparison pic, Elijah does look complacent, and like he's smirking a bit - the difference is in the eyes, though I can't explain it much better than that.:rolleyes: :o His eyes look kind of narrowed in the "Homicide" pic, while in the SSS pic they're much more open and honest, if you follow me. Okay, time for me to stop pretending like I know what I'm talking about here...:rolleyes:

tgshaw

07-21-2003, 03:54 PM

Originally posted by Bridget Chubb
peaceweaver, "Internal Affairs" was on here the other night. It's not...that bad.:rolleyes: I mean, the wrinkly guy and the emotional-baggage lady and their relationship do get kind of old.:rolleyes: But there's also lots of Elijah.;) tgshaw's mentioned the "Peter Pan" scenes in that movie before - I liked them a lot too.:) Especially as I'm on a "Pirates of the Caribbean" kick right now.:o Woohoo!
Bridget--I think you're getting it mixed up with "Child in the Night" (that's the one with the Peter Pan scenes). Internal Affairs, IIRC, has a few seconds of Elijah at the very beginning of the movie and... that's it. (And peaceweaver, I don't have Internal Affairs or Back to the Future II on the list--just didn't seem like there was enough Elijah in either of them... but I could add them if there's enough interest.)

BLOSSOM

07-21-2003, 04:16 PM

'TRY 17' SPOILERS:

Mariole. Re Jane's attempt to burn the photgraph of Jones. Well, I did ask!:) What great insight you have - yes, it's deep, but I love deep, and your thoughts on that make perfect sense to me. Thanks.:)

Tg - Your take on that was close to Mariole's - Jane trying to get Jones out of her mind, and failing. I believe multiple viewings are in order to enhance our knowledge and understanding of Jones. It's always worth doing research.

END OF TRY 17 SPOILERS

Not that there were really any spoilers in there, but just for Peaceweaver's sake. Peaceweaver - I hope you get to see it soon.

Oh, Mariole - I think it was ainon who made the Paul Hogan/Sam Gamgee reference.

| meant to say in my last post - Welcome back Nurse, Sorry to hear of your RL troubles. Hope you are coping.

Hello to Winter, and LYLS.

I totally agree with Bridget on Tg's SSS #3.

I would love to see that 'Homicide' episode though, Brunchild. It would be interesting to see Elijah play a character I really dislike. I hope he does this at some point in the future too - I'm thinking of someone like that little slimeball of a prison warden in 'The Green Mile.' I REALLY disliked him! Of course, EW is probably taking time off from angst after being Frodo for so long, and who can blame him?

Does anyone else think that Elijah would be a great choice if there is ever a remake of 'Harold and Maude?' As Harold, of course! It would have to be soon to avoid the 'too old for the part' problem. It will never happen, but then the original was so good it would be difficult to improve upon.

I wonder if Elijah HAS played Frodo for the last time, after the recent visit to NZ. Will the actors be returning to complete any work for the extended ROTK DVD? Or is it all in the can already?

I've had a good week Elijah-wise. I watched 'Bumblebee' on Sunday, then 'Try 17' arrived from Shireling on Monday and I watched that twice during the week. Then on Saturday night I happened to flick over the TV channel a couple of minutes before 'Deep Impact' came on. I feel yet another 'Fellowship' viewing coming on any day soon.:) I need my Frodo fix.

Bye.

Maeglian

07-21-2003, 04:20 PM

arrgghhh. I can't tell you how hard it is to skip over the Try17 discussion, but I am still waiting to see it. Any day now. What she said!!!

The other night, one of the TV channels here showed good taste in actually airing Bumblebee. Of course, that was the time when a certain decrepit old VCR decided to call it a day for once and all. :( So I still don't have Bumblebee taped, but at least I got to see the film, it's been a year or more since last time. I didn't really notice anything new..... the final scene up in that attic still goes on too long...... But there was a "Frodo" moment in there, when Barney sits down on Mazzo's bed and admits that he really belongs in that hospital, after he's found out the truth about his own illness. Barney kind of looks out into the distance, sad, and pensive. Reminded me of Frodo in parts of the "I wish the Ring had never come to me" scene in Moria, when he's not looking at Gandalf.

Mariole, I was planning to comment on your rant, which I found mainly honestly worried (Although we may not agree on VM's acting :) ), but since you've removed it.... Yet, that journalist and paper haven't seen the film, have they? So the article is probably biased to that particular journalist's view.

Bridget, nice to be on a kick for something else, now, isn't it? Personally I'm on a Severus Snape high at present. Go figure. I finally read and fell in love with the Harry Potter books, and am now pondering this wonderfully nasty, absolutely not-nice, greasyhaired, awful, but..... good guy. He's so ......fascinating! And complex! And mysterious! And nasty! Anyway, greasy hair isn't quite the repellent it used to be before Viggo's Aragorn, now is it? :D

Uhm, enough with the off-topicness.

From Erendis
......"No post-Shelob" spoilers policy from New Line. I don't believe this policy exists in any codified way, except in the minds of the fans. You're probably right. I suspect the main issue for NL will be not giving away major plot points or "surprises". We'll get various generic struggling forward and wary or totally exhausted F&S, angsty and sad stuff that could really happen at any time in the narrative if you don't know the story, but no Shelob, probably no orc-march, certainly no CU tower reunion, and no claiming of the Ring. I will be most surprised if any of the emotionally traumatic high points of the story makes it into trailers. I would be totally and utterly surprised if they repeated the Cannes Ring Claiming in any promotional way. Giving away the story like that?!?! :confused:

BTW, did you all see that game some fan site posted a picture from (was it Torn, I don't remember) with Sam in CU? The game had him dodging and getting rid of lots of viciously in-fighting orcs, not sneaking through a dark scarily almost-empty tower. I wonder if the film will do the same? After all, PJ may figure that some action is required, since there probably has just been a hefty dose of nightmarish and scary "what horror is lurking around the corner here in the dark" scenes in Shelob's lair. Just a thought.

Oh, I just read somewhere that Total Film (it's a UK film magazine that costs a fortune over here, I found out the hard way..... :rolleyes: ) voted Richard Gere's character in Internal Affairs as the 9th nastiest role character in film history, or some such. I think it was probably deserved too.

Blossom, lovely collages! :)

shilohmm

07-21-2003, 09:20 PM

Europanya has a lovely, long write-up of her experiences at Comic Con San Diego on pages 447 and 448 of the Harem. :)

Mariole,
I am loving you Froshadowing pages. I'm gonna have to pin hubby down with those. :cool:

BLOSSOM,
Lovely collages. :)

I know I had more to say but my brain isn't working at the moment. I really should find out what it's like to sleep at night...

Sheryl

edit:

Forgot to say - Europanya's report is that they showed no Frodo past CU, unless I'm spacing out again.

ainon

07-22-2003, 02:19 AM

Kelsey, how are you doing? :)

Whiteling -- while I wouldn't add Armin Müller-Stahl to my favourite actors list, he's certainly one of those actors whose movies I'll watch should the chance come by. He does make for a nice Gandalf comparison, doesn't he?

Originally posted by Maeglian
You're probably right. I suspect the main issue for NL will be not giving away major plot points or "surprises". We'll get various generic struggling forward and wary or totally exhausted F&S, angsty and sad stuff that could really happen at any time in the narrative if you don't know the story, but no Shelob, probably no orc-march, certainly no CU tower reunion, and no claiming of the Ring. I will be most surprised if any of the emotionally traumatic high points of the story makes it into trailers. I would be totally and utterly surprised if they repeated the Cannes Ring Claiming in any promotional way. Giving away the story like that?!?! :confused:

Well, technically the story won't be given away if no one tells the newbies where that scene belongs. ;) But thing is, I doubt oldbies will not want to scream bloody murder about NewLine giving the ending away. :p

Anyone else wishing that the Cannes clip will be made available on some special edition DVD someday? :)

Darn, I missed your rant, Mariole. *hugs* Glad you're feeling better now anyways. :k Except, I think we should all get used to more of such stuff, meaning articles and snippets and promos that tell us all about Aragorn-King-to-be-and-choices-to-be-made and later I'm sure we'll also have Sam-sidekick-turned-hero write-ups ( ;) Bridget), and not as much about Frodo. The problem is there's very little one can say about Frodo beyond the breathless ominous, "The Ringbearer faces more challenges in his Quest to detroy the One Ring. Will he succeed??!!!" without giving away spoilers; indeed some have, by hinting about the large spider. And there's absolutely nothing *positive* anyone can promotionally say about Frodo either. So ....

peaceweaver - those little caps I posted from 'Internal Affairs' two pages back pretty much represent all you'll see of Elijah in that movie. But then I think you'll have watched the movie already by now!

Thanks, Maeg and Sheryl for the heads-up about the Comic Con report at the Harem. Heading over now. Need to look for Grey Pilgrim stuff that Mariole mentioned too. :cool:

(((Sheryl)))

quick edit:

ROTK PREVIEW - FRODO SPOILER

Quoting the Frodo-relevant bits by Grey Pilgrim, from his post at the top of page in ROTK - A General Thread (http://www.council-of-elrond.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=1641&perpage=30&pagenumber=46) at the Council-of-Elrond Movie Discussion forum.(note: that entire thread is a spoiler thread).

The footage that received the most response was that of Frodo. The ring is extracting a huge toll on Frodo's physical body (I can only imagine the mental toll) and it looks like PJ is going to show us this detail. The closest footage to this was in FOTR after the confrontation at the ford with the Black Riders. Frodo is laying on the ground and slipping into the wraith world looking quite puffy and wraithish. This footage has Frodo looking more wasted away and punished. Cuts and bruises covered his face and the exhausted look seemed overwhelming. The gasp from the audience when the footage was shown was in the form of shock. I seem to remember that he was still wearing his Elven cloak and hobbit shirt. This could have been footage after Shelob's attack or on the slopes of Mt. Doom during the last push.

SPOILER SPACE

Mariole

07-22-2003, 09:58 AM

Um, Sheryl, what exactly will you be doing to your hubby with my Froshadowing pages? (Well, I don't mean EXACTly, just wondering what part my Froshadow pics could have with pinning anybody down ... never mind, let's not go there...) :D

whiteling, thanks for the comments. I have an agreement with myself to just let the generation gap be. That's why Eru invented fantasy. ;)

Tg, I haven't seen IA, but I certainly wouldn't put Back to the Future II in Elijah's official movie-review list. He has, what, 2 lines? It's interesting from an historical perspective, but I wouldn't consider it a "role" in comparison with most of his other movies.

Blossom, thanks for your corrections and comments! I think EW will play more villian roles in the future; he's expressed an interest. Not sure if he might be called back for more shooting; it sounds from the con reports as if pickups are still going on in bits and spurts (that's where Billy B and Ian M were). But I believe all scheduled Frodo shooting is over.

Maeg, ack! Your VCR died during Bumblebee? How awful! :( I would dearly love to Froshadow anything from that movie. But caps appear to be quite rare.

Thanks, all, for your sensible comments regarding the pre-ROTK publicity. I must remember to keep calm, and quit eating my stomach away at the thought that there won't be enough Frodo. People really do love this character, you know. One nonspoilerish comment from the block that ainon was kind enough to post:

The footage that received the most response was that of Frodo.
All I will say is: movie studios, take note.

from erendis
New Line has already shown that Sammath Naur footage at 2001 Cannes.
I'm sure this footage is still floating around somewhere, but that was way-back-when before they knew that the Rings was going to be big. Like, really big. So I'm guessing we won't see any references to Frodo's decision (from New Line anyway) prior to the movie. But I also hope that it will end up on the ROTK EE, along with the blooper reel (I'd pay good money to see that!).

nurse

07-22-2003, 12:24 PM

Here are the Elijah parts of Europanya's posts. There is an (understandable :)) amount of swoonage:

Elijah, oh lord help me, but he's beautiful, in tight jeans and a fitting white striped short sleeved shirt--all eyes and cropped hair and trim little line of facial fuzz. They all have their arms about each other and Kevin and the interview is wrapping up and Elijah is saying, "Hey, I want copies of these photos!"

The crew begins to break up and Elijah looks over at Dom and gets this little minx grin and says "I'm going for it!" And to everyone's shock leaps out of the curtain and sprints down the convention concourse as fast as his little legs can carry him (which is damn fast) whooping with glee while three security guards all in black race after him followed by the entire line of screaming fans. Meanwhile, the New Line people are standing there in shock, mouths agape, mumbling "Where is he going?! Where is he going?!? Security!! Security!!"

Leah and I were bent over with laughter, it was the funniest thing we'd ever seen. I guess, later we found out, that Elijah being the game player geek he is, was dying to get out on that floor and had decided to make a break for it despite New Line's assertion that doing so would create a security problem of Con-wide proportions. Which it evidently did, getting New Line folks into very hot water with the Con security people. Not that they could do anything about it. Elijah, essentially escaped. I heard later that he was mobbed of course although he managed to claw his way to the ROTK gaming booth to play a few minutes of the demo they had running there next to the main New Line booth and tower of Orthanc. Somehow Dom also got down there, but their adventure was short lived as hoards of fans were tearing down the walls to get at them. Very funny to me, but not so funny to New Line who were plainly freaked out. They later told Elijah he could go out on the floor if he agreed to wear a full masked costume like half the attendees, but I never heard if he did that or not.
<CLIP>
Suddenly, I hear Elijah in the EXIT hall running up and calling "Dom! Dom! Where are you?" Dom waves to him and in three or four puppy dog leaps Elijah launches himself up the stage steps and plops next to Dom and begins to talk excitedly about all the 'cool stuff' that's going on at Comic-Con. In fact, everytime I saw Elijah, he was either bouncing or running. He really can't sit still. <g> He reminded me of a Labrador puppy, all limbs and wagging tail. Well, no tail really, but happy as a puppy anyway. Just adorable. He wore an expression of just complete 'wow' and delight on his face like he'd never seen fans before in his life or something. It's still that new to him or he's still that humble, either way, he broke my heart he was so darn cute about it.

So now my squeeage levels are getting dangerously high, I've got Dom and Elijah at eye-level sitting so close I can hear their conversation. Elijah happens to have a voice that carries really really well. Moreso than Dom's so I could only hear one half of the conversation, but got the gist. Mostly consisting of Elijah's uncontainable exuberance at being at Comic-Con and the "coolness" of Dom's shoes. "Hey man, where'd you get those shoes?" Dom takes off a shoe and tosses it at Elijah's face, he laughs and tosses it back. "Sick, man, I don't want to smell them, I wanted to look at 'em!"

Okay, not the most excellent of conversations, but cute nevertheless. And lord save me his blue blue eyes are looking right in my direction because of how Elijah's sitting and I'm trying really really hard not to stare open-mouthed at how truly beautiful he is because who's this old gal with the wrong pass standing under the lighting rig staring at us? But although I did make eye contact a few times with him, he didn't seem to care. But yes, ladies I can tell you he is just as breathtaking in person as on film. Large parts of me were melting, but I was keeping a crusty exterior and about killing myself to maintain that "bored" look for the nervous stagehands still eyeing me. Eeeeeeeeee!
<CLIP>
.has now brought me within two steps of Elijah and Dom to my immediate right. Uh-huh. Elijah is right next to me, so close I can see the sweat on his upper lip.
<CLIP>
eye line moving to my right to catch Elijah mid-giggle and rib-jab as Dom is telling him about some hot chick or something....
<CLIP>
[telling myself to] behave...stared at Elijah unabashedly for ten minutes already give the guy a break....don't be a freak....squ--STOP IT STAY CALM! You can squeeee later in the restroom!
<CLIP>
I've got Elijah and Dom at my feet and Jim on my left and he's going to introduce me to Sean and how the hell did I manage to pull this thing off??
<CLIP>
So now I no longer have a legit reason to stand on the stairs and I see Elijah and Dom have also gotten up and wandered higher to poke and shove shoulders with Sean so I back slowly away in a happy cloud
<CLIP>
I decide I'm going to divide my time between watching the reverse screen of the presentation and popping my head back in to gawk some more at the lads who are giggling and hugging like kiddos--so cute!

I'm chillin' having a great ol' time when I hear this, "Hey!" coming from the stage stairs. I figure it has nothing to do with me so I keep my eyes on the reverse screen, my hand just parting the heavy black curtain so I can peer through it. "Hey!" again, but now my heart stops because I realize that's Elijah Wood's voice and it's getting closer. I look to my left and I think I've completely lost my mind because all I see are these two HUGE blue eyes coming at me. At me! Directly at me. And I'm in fact, the very person being "hey'd" at. There's no one else standing at the side curtain but me.

Elijah's eyes get even bigger as he bounds up to me and puts his utterly devastatingly beautiful face right up to mine and whispers "Is it okay if I have a look out there?"

A simple enough question, and one that a simple person could answer, but I'm not that simple and Elijah Wood, the elf-like semi-human who owns my every fantasy, has put his nose about three inches from mine all eager eyes and bouncy exuberance and I realize he's waiting. He's not asking me to move or step aside, he's asking me, the person without the blue badge, if he can have 'permission' from me to peek out! I'm totally beyond squee now, I'm just on a whole new plain of squeeage. Thankfully, the silent kind.

"Uh, yeah," I say stupidly and part the curtain for him.

He bends over and ducks under my arm to have a good look. Figuring I've got nothing to lose at this point (afterall he came to me even though there's many places he could have peered through, and I'm now his personal curtain holder), he must trust me so I bend over him just a little protectively as if I want a peek, too, and I get a really really good look at his shoulders and backside before he turns his head and moves his face close to mine again because he knows he needs to be quiet and he doesn't want me to get upset with him for peering, and says as only Elijah Wood can: "That's ****ing amazing! I can't believe how many people are out there!"

I nod as if to say, yeah and they're all here for you, too. He smiles then at me (stop my heart), says 'thanks', straightens up from under my arm and bounds off to sit back next to Dom.
<CLIP>
I'm completely distracted by the unbelievable sight of Sean Astin easily bending Elijah over on the top steps in a "nuggy" hold and wrestling him helplessly to the floor with Elijah squealing in glee and giggling the whole time like a puppy during a healthy round of "rub my tummy." My eyeballs melted out of my head about then and my slash-loving heart just combusted. I think I realized I was about to weep with wonderfullness and bit my tongue really hard to keep it in check.
<CLIP>
Sean picks a breathless Elijah up off the floor and they elbow one another for a while before the stagehands intercede again.
<CLIP>
Sean and Elijah are all tired from their tussle and are now sitting talking quietly together
<CLIP>
Sean's clip was a 3-minute version of the Making of The Long and the Short of It showing him and Elijah setting up the shots, etc. Very cute.
<CLIP>
Then the ROTK preview...I hate to say it but I was underwhelmed. Mostly because it paled so in comparison to the backstage events. But it was almost all interview sound bites from PJ, Viggo, Elijah and Sean. TORN has a better description than I do,
<CLIP>
then some very pitiful shots of Frodo looking upwards toward Shelob I assume. Elijah talks about the destruction of Frodo's soul which got me all weepy and they showed a few brief clips of him and Sam in dark places and in particular the briar patch from Journey to the Crossroads! So hey, they filmed that! Cool! Nothing of them on the Gorgoroth or near Mt. Doom. No Cirith Ungol, no naked Frodo. Nothing. Keeping that all secret. Mostly it was horses and cobblestones and battle battle battle. Oh well, did I mention I got to hold a curtain for Elijah?

tgshaw

07-22-2003, 12:27 PM

Edit: Geez, nurse, how did I manage to simulpost with that? Thanks for bringing the report! (Now my only problem will be looking at Frodo and not thinking of puppy dogs :rolleyes: -- maybe I should watch the Green Dragon and Party scenes a few times to get that out of my system before all the new angst starts in!! :p )

-----------------

Originally posted by Mariole
Maeg, ack! Your VCR died during Bumblebee? How awful! :( I would dearly love to Froshadow anything from that movie. But caps appear to be quite rare.

I have Bumblebee on DVD--have made a lot of caps and posted a few of them way back when--what seemed to be rare in that movie were Froshadowings! I specifically kept my eyes peeled for them and didn't spot any. But, Mariole, with your superior ability in that area you may be able to :p !! If anyone has any ideas about any scenes/shots that might work, let me know. And, this got me thinking about how long it's been since I've watched Bumblebee--my last viewing may have been before TTT was released, in which case I should certainly take another look!

nurse

07-22-2003, 12:58 PM

Belated thanks:

tg-for the Secret Sam Smiles and the info on the Gollum poem

Blossom-yes, "coping" is an appropriate word, thanks
great collages!

Mariole-I very much enjoy reading your insights, even when "deep"

gotta go

Bridget Chubb

07-22-2003, 07:03 PM

Tg: duh, yes, it was "Child in the Night" that I saw, not IA.:rolleyes: :o Whoops. Thank you.

Maeglian, I saw your CUT.:D I can't wait to find out what happens with Snape either!:cool:

Mariole

07-22-2003, 11:47 PM

In honor of Europanya's close encounter, here's an eager puppy pic from Chain of Fools, so tg will never be able to get that image out of her mind:

http://home.ricochet.com/mdes/limages/pup.jpg

I've started doing some Froshadowing for CoF here:

http://home.ricochet.com/mdes/limages/frofool.html

ainon

07-23-2003, 01:56 AM

Mariole - wonderful angsty Frofools, and LOL over the puppy pic. Awwwwwww. :D

nurse - oooh, cool. Thanks for the careful editing and posting of the Elijah parts from Europanya's post!

Meanwhile, Irascian has posted a complete transcript of the panel at Comic Con:

http://www.iansmith.co.uk/lotr/weblogs/July19th2003NewLineTranscript.htm

A snippet from his transcript ;)

Some hobbits are stickier than others. Billy Boyd is impossible to remove from feet, Elijah Wood cannot stay in feet. This is not a comment on these people, obviously.

Also, remember AICN's Quint, who went down to NZ last month, and promised us behind-the-scenes stories? Well, word is that he can't report any of it yet, because other reporters who were down there with him are not happy about his AICN reports coming out before theirs - these are mainstream reporters we're talking about, who'd signed agreements with NewLine not to release anything till the Oct/Nov publicity season (Quint never signed) - and they're threatening to release their material if Quint reports anything more. So, unless the situation changes in Quint's favour, we won't be getting anything till October. Well, beyond the trailer (whenever that will be) and whatever we get on the theatrical DVD. Sigh.

--------

This is sorta off-topic although I think it's connected. Kinda. :p I was catching up with some Edward Norton material (I know, I know. He's not Frodo, he's not Elijah Wood, but I would love, love, love Elijah to work with him some day so I think it's perfectly fine to have a minor infatuation with Edward Norton on the side, okay?) and came across this:

Quoting Edward Norton:

I usually don't find I can pull on my own emotions. Sometimes, obviously, some extension of things you've felt can spin up, but it's much more of an imaginative process for me. Many people project onto actors the idea that they must be finding a particular emotion within themselves - from their own deep well - in the sense of the Method as taught by Lee Strasberg, or what's often very glibly interpreted as the Method. I've just never bought that or found it a useful tool. I've always subscribed to Stella Adler's maxim that an actor's greatest gift is his imagination. I find the most effective thing I can do is project myself into the given circumstances by using my instinct or empathic talent (though I hate to use that word) for understanding how other people express their emotions. It's an almost clinical ability to observe those emotions - to soak them up like a sponge and then turn around and represent them. I find that approach works best for me and is more in sync with the kind of roles I want to pursue.

[source: http://www.edward-norton.org/articles/proj10.html
The full interview includes Major Spoilers to the movie 'Primal Fear', so for those who haven't seen that movie yet, but would still like to check out the interview, you could skip the second part of the interview. On the whole it's a great actor's interview, and includes his experience in filming 'American History X' totally out of sequence. Yes. I am soooooo a geek. :rolleyes:]

Well, he talks about acting! :p And he reminded me of Elijah, and made me think how wonderful it'd be if we could grab Elijah and make him answer these kinds of questions for a change, now that we all do know where he got his tattoo and why and when. :p :D

Brunhild

07-23-2003, 05:27 AM

According to imdb.com, EJW has had a bit part as 'The Guy' in Spy Kids 3-D: Game Over directed by Robert Rodriguez. The movie opens on July 25 in the US and on August 1 in the UK. Is anyone ready to suffer those red and blue glasses for a glimpse of 3-D EJW?

And a link (http://ew2.lysator.liu.se/fanq/l/u/lund3/frodo_movie.jpg) to a picture of Frodo :).

peaceweaver

07-23-2003, 08:34 AM

Oh No! You mean I may have to go and SEE Spy Kids 3? For thirty seconds of Lij? First Internal Affairs, now this!! :eek:

Actually, it is kind of interesting that EW made this appearance. It must be a favor for Robert Rodriguez, who directed the Faculty. :)

ainon, I am with you. If we could tackle Elijah Wood (wait, don't go there... :p ) and have a serious discussion about acting, I would adore it. Or just get him on to Bravo's Inside the Actor's Studio, as has been suggested before.

Ed Norton rocks.

whiteling

07-23-2003, 08:36 AM

Nurse, thank you for the edited version you made from Europanya's post! :k

Mariole, the puppy pic from CoF (and your gratifying Froshadowings on your website) fill me with the urgent desire to watch this movie! Of course, I could get the DVD at amazon, but here it is only available in dubbed version! :mad: Grrr! No Elijah voice at all! Sometimes DVDs seem not to be that 'wonder of modern technology' as tg described it in her glossary...

Ainon, wonderful links, thanks a lot! LOL at the nice comment on the feet, I remember vividly the scene from 'A Day in the Life of a Hobbit' (FotR SEE) where they literally chopped the prosthetics off Billy's feet.
I'll second your infatuation with Edward Norton, ainon. I saw him the first time as Will Graham in 'Red Dragon' (the book fascinates me for years), followed by 'Primal Fear' and 'Keeping the Faith'. I think, he is an incredible actor and what I read from the interview by now is most interesting. It's always exciting to hear actors reflecting on her work and how they do this. Norton's quote about 'using my instinct or empathic talent (...) for understanding how other people express their emotions' reminded me also of Elijah's way of acting. And isn't Elijah playing 'mindless' computer games between set-ups, too? ;)

Brunhild, thank you for the 3-D Elwood info! Unfortunately the link doesn't work :( .

In my last post I've forgotten to thank you, Blossom, for your appealing collages and also a belated thank you to Maeglian, for your nice greeting (du Sprachgenie :) )!

tgshaw

07-23-2003, 11:43 AM

ainon--Ed Norton's thoughts on acting absolutely remind me of Elijah. IMHO it's kind of summed up in this:
It's an almost clinical ability to observe those emotions - to soak them up like a sponge and then turn around and represent them.
According to the micro-expression researcher at UCSF, there would be a very small percentage of the population who would be able to do this well enough that the emotions would look natural (so the phrase "almost clinical" is interesting)--maybe we need to attach electrodes to Ed Norton's head, too :p .

whiteling--Chain of Fools isn't available in region 1 coding (U.S. and Canada) at all -- no DVD, no VHS. The way I--and most other people who own it--got the movie was by buying the VCD from yesasia.com. The nice thing about VCDs is that they don't have regional coding, so you can buy one from anywhere in the world and then play it anywhere in the world. The VCD that yesasia.com has available has Chinese subtitles, but no dubbing, and I didn't really find the subtitles that distracting. (VCDs don't have any of the "extra stuff" that DVDs have.)

If you're interested, go to http://yesasia.com and search for the movie title (not Elijah's name). This URL gets you to the North American site, but there's a link there to take you to their "international site" that covers the rest of the world; I'd think they would have the VCD available from that site, too.

--------Will have to think about the Spy Kids situation. Maybe I can borrow someone's kid to "take" me ;) . I don't mind going to most movies alone, but... :o

BLOSSOM

07-23-2003, 01:12 PM

Ainon - Now I know why I haven't been able to find Quint's second report from NZ on AICN. I went in there specifically to see that, as I thought it should be there by now, but could find no trace of it. I was so looking forward to the Frodo and Sam stuff he promised us! All I can say is - :( :( :(

But thanks for posting that ComicCon transcript. I love to hear news of when they get together again. There's really a great sense of affection between them.

Mariole - again, wonderful comparisons of Mikey II and Frodo. You have such an extraordinary eye for these things.:)

Peaceweaver - Yes, I would love to see EW on The Actor's Studio. It does show here in the UK on satellite, though I imagine we're way behind the US.

Hello Whiteling.

Brunchild - :eek: to that Frodo pic!

Does anyone know where deluby is? Deluby, are you out there?
And Shireling - haven't seen you around for a few days either.

Bye.

shireling

07-23-2003, 03:03 PM

And Shireling - haven't seen you around for a few days either.

I'm here Blossom - I've been spending a lot of time at Frodo's Harem droo er studying Hobmom's wonderful Comicon pics and reading all the reports popping up in various places on the web, especially Europanya's amazing account of her backstage experiences. But I always read the posts here even when I don't contribute myself - I always love the intelligent discussions that go on here and have been really enjoying all the Froshadowing and comparison caps, and your recent angsty Frodo collage was superb:)

By the way, I found that comment you made about ROTK (which I can't seem to find right now) very interesting - when you said that its possible Elijah may still need to don the Frodo outfit for the ex. dvd - this was something that hadn't occurred to me and which I shall cling to - I really find the idea of him never being Frodo again quite upsetting so with this possibility in my mind I can postpone the inevitable for a little longer:)

I have found the Try 17 discussion quite fascinating but it has once again driven home to me just how unobservant I am:(

peaceweaver

07-23-2003, 03:12 PM

If so, run--do not walk--to Elve's site to see the clip from Entertainment TV featuring the hobbits at Comic-con. It is wicked funny.

http://frodoandsam.net/film/multimedia/video.html

:)

whiteling

07-23-2003, 03:25 PM

Tg, thank you very much for the link and the info! :)

And thanks, peaceweaver - the clip is cool! They are soo loopy :D (in a very very likeable way)!

naiad

07-23-2003, 04:41 PM

Amazing report from Europanya, via Nurse! Being asked to part the curtain by such a darling, being close enough to see a damp upper lip... I'd have fallen to pieces on the dusty floor, never mind being able to write about the experience! For holding together and getting the details, thank you thank you thank you! :k

But - Elijah talks about the destruction of Frodo's soul

Does this trouble anyone else? The source on TORN indicates that EW emphasizes the total evacuation of Frodo's spirit during the ROTK proceedings. This REALLY worries me. It's Frodo's resistance that makes the climax to Mt Doom so intense and meaningful, not his ultimate (and momentary) capitulation. If Frodo's spirit is completely shot before he even gets to the Mt., as EW implies - Tolkien's denouement of possible redemption for the Ring-bearer is no longer credible.

Per book cannon, Frodo's appearance, just moments before his will is seized, reflects his still struggling spirit:
Sam sees him as 'a figure robed in white', an unlikely color if Frodo had already fallen.

Next, Frodo 'standing, hand on breast, his breath coming in great gasps,' says to Sam, "I must go on.. Farewell, Sam! This is the end at last. On Mount Doom doom shall fall. Farewell!" Though speaking 'as if as one now far away', a smattering of Frodo survives yet. Those are his last recorded words before the ring is cut from him and I still believe, that's Frodo talking.

Finally, Sam sees F 'at the very Crack of Doom,' black against the glare, tense, erect, but still as if he had turned to stone'. There and then, and only then, might we loose sight of Frodo the hobbit. And that for but a brief interval...

The Ring is gone but Frodo is not. 'Frodo gave a cry, and there he was, fallen upon his knees at the chasm's edge. But Gollum, dancing like a mad thing, held aloft the ring...It shone now as if verily it was wrought of living fire.' Yet Frodo does not pounce again at Gollum nor, once both G and the ring tumble over the edge, pursue the irresistible charm into the flames.

Collapsed physically so that Sam must drag him from the brink, Frodo speaks, "Well, this is the end Sam Gamgee," so that Sam recognizes his beloved friend, 'pale and worn, and yet himself again; and in his eyes there was peace now, neither strain of will, nor madness, nor any fear. His burden was taken away. There was the dear master of the sweet days of the shire.'

None of this would hang true if Frodo's will and heart lagged to the point of failure long before he reached the point of consequence.

May someone please have an optimistic rejoinder or an explanation of Elijah's words...

tgshaw

07-23-2003, 06:04 PM

naiad--It's hard to say how this will play out in the movie, as in the book it's a process. It's not as if it's something that happens suddenly at the CofD. IMVHO, by the "Ring of Fire" speech, Frodo's already lost a good bit of his identity--just by the way he describes what's happening within him. He does hang on, but it becomes harder and harder as the Ring takes over more and more of his will. We see things such as his hand creeping toward the Ring and needing an effort to pull it away (or even asking Sam to hold it because he can't stop it). He's given the grace (literally) to hold on just as long as he needs to--Tolkien talks about that pretty clearly--but by that time, IMHO, it's no longer his own strength that he's using, if you take my meaning.

My guess is that Elijah's not using the word "soul" in a theological sense, but more as way of referring to Frodo's core "self," and that self is crumbling long before he gets to Mount Doom. In a very real sense, Frodo does become less and less Frodo as he makes his way across Mordor. The main question regarding the process in the movie, I think, is what the rate of disintegration will be (with so many things needing to be packed into RotK, I don't really expect the trek across Mordor itself to take up much screen time, so even a quick process may work very well).

There are so many ways this could be shown in the movie, that I'm more curious than worried. In the book, everything is from Sam's POV, and I'm wondering how the process will be shown to us when we're not "inside" either of the hobbits. With Elijah's gift of being able to show the "inner Frodo" through his face and body, I think we'll get things more from Frodo's POV in the movie than we do in the book.

As we keep reminding each other (and ourselves :) ), PJ has said that Frodo's the hero of the story. What makes him a hero, IMVVVHO, isn't that he doesn't break, but that he keeps going even when he's breaking--and broken. To do that, he can't depend on his own strength.

Pearl

07-23-2003, 06:22 PM

Originally posted by naiad
May someone please have an optimistic rejoinder or an explanation of Elijah's words...

I'm afraid that Elijah's words on Frodo's deterioration have always worried me, naiad. (That was a wonderful post on Frodo's character, by the way. :) )

Elijah's Frodo is adorable, but I've never seen quite enough of my Book Frodo's nobility in him. Flashes of it now and then ... not quite enough to satisfy me.

Nothing about the forthcoming ROTK makes me as nervous as how PJ will treat Frodo. Forget Arwen. I don't care what she gets up to. How PJ treats Frodo is all-important! He will convey to us how broken Frodo is, the terrible toll of the quest on his soul ... but will he give us a sense of Frodo's innate nobility and spirituality?

Oh, I have no doubt that we will pity Elijah's Frodo in ROTK. But will we respect him?

We wonders. :(

Blang it, Elijah, you should have read the book!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ps. I'd have told him that at ComicCon, had I been lucky enough to be there. ;) After which I wouldn't be able to help hugging the little blighter. :D

Maeglian

07-23-2003, 06:41 PM

Naiad, I'm sorry, I'm not disregarding your post, nor tg's or Pearl's ..... I simply have to think more before venturing a reply and it's awfully late now so my head is too muddled. :o

The reason I'm posting something anyway is to give my immediate reactions after having watched.....

Try 17! - So spoilers follow to end of post

I do agree with a lot that has been said already.

I thought Jones was quite bland as a character, and I had difficulties at first viewing of really noticing the acting. There were a lot of small quiet and endearing moments though, expressions and dialogue and comments, so I'm sure I'll notice that more and *get* the character on repeat viewing.

He probably did not drop out of college, but didn't exactly make many efforts in the studying department nor in getting to know campus or students. For one thing, he kept his bunk. And for another, wouldn't that will most likely require him to study at that specific college, not just live in the college town? I wonder what he supposedly was going to study?

My take on his character;- I *certainly* saw him as a (perhaps unknowingly to himself) budding writer........ The reason why he didn't "die of boredom" despite the slow and largely uneventful days, IMO was that he to such a large extent was living inside his head, and putting life and emotion, imagination, sorrows and joys, the parental difficulties and vivid fantasies all into those letters. I saw that as confirmed when Jane laughed and thought the letters were hilarious. As a photographer Jane should also have a keen eye for the small signs indicating that which defines a person's character and personality. The fact that she was immediately interested in Jones also IMO was supposed to show that he was much more interesting and complex as a character than appeared at first glance, and moreover that he came across as sincere and honest and all those things that Steve wasn't.

The problem was, I didn't think the film succeeded in showing Jones' personality-under-the-surface very well. The fantasies we got to *see* were mostly so standard fare that I was disappointed. Blowing up people who insult you, having bellydancers pop by, being a tough cowboy entering a saloon and getting the girl, all pretty stereotyped and unoriginal fantasies. I would have liked the fantasy parts to be both longer and more prominent, and more surreal, quirky, surprising, funny or darkish;- and perhaps involving the parental difficulties more if those were the main focal point of his life. That would have confirmed that Jones's internal life was very lively and his imagination boundless; -so that I could believe his quiet, uncertain and bland external demeanor actually balanced a rich, distinct and original personality and internal life.

(I had to LOL at the cowboy without arms though.)

I liked all the other main characters and the way they came across, and the way they were acted. I liked Blanche and Jane and the landlady, Brad and certainly also Lisa.

The car symbolism........ I certainly noted that. I had to smile when Jones let those people wreck the newly repaired car after Jane had left. Subtle, much? :D

I couldn't really see this as a comedy, although I had a couple of good laughs. It was more a low-key, quite tender, somewhat slow but respectful film about coming-of-age and getting to know yourself and others, and getting on with your own life despite dragging along emotional family baggage. (Trunk = symbolism, for sure! )

I did actually like the film well, despite some of the comments above. :)

Side thoughts while watching:

I'd have liked for EJW to go somewhere sunny and become the slightest bit tanned! He's so pale it's unnerving! Didn't he even get a tan while surfing in NZ?

The typewriter....... Jones was attached to that because it supposedly had belonged to his father (?), but where on *earth* did he get the ink tape required? I'm certain I couldn't get hold of that easily anymore.

Comparing the quiet and almost bland Jones with the real life fun & energy bolt that is EJW (per those ComiCon reports, certainly) was very strange.

Oh, and the film cutting directly from the sex-with-Jane scene to Jones smoking a cigarette (in the car) afterwards immediately made me think of Elda and Elenya. Can't imagine why..... :confused: :o :D

mel headstrong

07-23-2003, 08:25 PM

Originally posted by Pearl
How PJ treats Frodo is all-important! He will convey to us how broken Frodo is, the terrible toll of the quest on his soul ... but will he give us a sense of Frodo's innate nobility and spirituality?

I don't think innate nobility and spirituality would be consistent with the Frodo we've been given so far. :( But I expect Elijah will give us a nuanced, interesting-to-discuss Frodo nonetheless.

Mel

tgshaw

07-23-2003, 09:37 PM

I'm on my way to bed (even though they haven't started the "mystery date" contest at the hoedown yet :rolleyes: ), but just had a couple of somewhat disconnected comments on Maeg's post... http://home.earthlink.net/~screencaps/id19.html[/url] ]

Try 17 spoilers to end of post

Originally posted by Maeglian
[b]I'd have liked for EJW to go somewhere sunny and become the slightest bit tanned! He's so pale it's unnerving! Didn't he even get a tan while surfing in NZ?
Not while they were doing any filming!! They had to keep those nice, pale hobbit (or elven) complexions. So I'm sure they used plenty of sunblock. PJ probably worried as much about sunburn as he did about broken arms during the surfing safaris :p ! (Now, if they went back to visit...)

A lot of "U.S." movies/shows are shot in Canada, because it's so much cheaper--IIRC, X-Files was shot in the same place as Try 17. Hey, but Happy Feet is going to be made in Australia, isn't it :) ?

The typewriter....... Jones was attached to that because it supposedly had belonged to his father (?), but where on *earth* did he get the ink tape required? I'm certain I couldn't get hold of that easily anymore.
Believe it or not, a catalog I get regularly is now selling just-like-they-were-back-then manual typewriters as nostalgia items! And they sell extra ribbons ["ink tape" ;) ], too! Maybe Jones was just ahead of his time :) .

peaceweaver

07-23-2003, 09:59 PM

Can't breathe.....

Just found this over at Harry Knowles' site. A report of an interview by one of his minions at Comic-con.

The most sacred acting experience Ive ever had was at the top of Mount Ruapehu with Elijah Woods in my arms, says Sean Astin with the contented confidence of an actor who knows he nailed the moment.

can't breathe....

But wouldn't you think those folks would know how to spell Elwood's name? :mad:

There is more in the piece at AICN, especially for Sean Astin and Dom Monaghan fans.

naiad

07-23-2003, 10:19 PM

"Frodo at that dreadful glimpse fell as one stricken mortally. His hand sought the chain about his neck... almost inaudibly, [Sam] heard Frodo whispering:'Help me, Sam! Help me, Sam! Hold my hand! I can't stop it.'" JRRT, III, Mt. Doom.

Of course you're right Tgshaw, Frodo's crumbling but even here, it's his physical self that's weakening the fastest. It must feel to him as if an unsurmountable force is yanking his hand toward the ring but his own will is dead-set against this and he begs for help. But, as I've said before, the only help anyone can give Frodo is brawn. No one can help him against the continual mind-bending. That, he must and does confront on his own. Now in the movie, there's only a hint of this as you've shown us in your wonderfully annotated frame-by-frames.

Re- What makes him a hero, IMVVVHO, isn't that he doesn't break, but that he keeps going even when he's breaking--and broken. To do that, he can't depend on his own strength. I agree with the first part (Frodo continuing even when he's breaking) but not the second. Frodo continuing in any form when he's 'broken' would surely rupture the "green sun." I couldn't believe it. But that's prob'ly just a matter of semantics ;) . As for not being able to rely on his own strength, again, I'd qualify that as PHYSICAL strength. In internal strength, Frodo is unsurpassed.

So, as Pearl asks of Elijah - will he give us Frodo's innate nobility and spirituality? I know what you mean Mel, but I think Elijah could give us that if put to it - based on his superb delivery of my favorite line in the entire book: 'I will take the ring, though, I do not know the way.' Therein lie those qualities that invite respect and deepen pity for Frolijah, don't you think Pearl? (Yes, if only he had read the book!)

EDIT: Our posts just crossed, Peaceweaver.
SA's words: The most sacred acting experience Ive ever had was at the top of Mount Ruapehu with Elijah Woods in my arms."
Oh, Mama .... ! Thanks, Peace. Sweet dreams yourself :D

ainon

07-24-2003, 12:05 AM

Originally posted by whiteling
I'll second your infatuation with Edward Norton, ainon. I saw him the first time as Will Graham in 'Red Dragon' (the book fascinates me for years), followed by 'Primal Fear' and 'Keeping the Faith'.

Will Graham's a favourite of mine for years too and when I found out that Edward Norton was the one playing Graham, last year's 'Red Dragon' changed from being another opportunistic Hannibal Lecter movie that I was scoffing at to becoming must-see fare. :p Oh yes, Norton rocks. Now why couldn't it have been Ed *Norton* doing all that walking around on 'Ash Wednesday'? Edward Norton can make walking look like a study in ... well, walking. Well, pah. Yet another thing to fault Ed Burns with: for not casting Edward Norton in the role he'd written for himself, thus denying our Elijah his chance to work with Ed Norton. :mad: :D

peaceweaver - I know. I kinda did a 'I can't breathe!' choke myself. I posted the report over at the Goonies thread: AICN report (http://www.khazaddum.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=154413#post154413). Spoiler free. Go read and feel the months stretching long before you, folks. ;)

This is a spoiler link (http://img-nex.theonering.net/images/scrapbook/7364.jpg). Another pic of Action Figure Frodo in orc costume and holding Sting (I think).

tg, great wet hoedown pics! :D Speaking of DVDs, I received friendly spam telling me Blackstar of UK is having some kind of summer sale and Region 2 'The Good Son' is for sale at 4.99 pounds: http://www.blackstar.co.uk/video/item/7000000068225

While driving home last night the radio reported that Halley Joel Osment has been voted the greatest child actor of all time, beating the likes of Jodie Foster and Shirley Temple. I think the report claimed it was a Blockbuster vote? :confused: Heck of a thing to bestow on a kid Osment's age though. :eek:

Pearl

07-24-2003, 01:51 AM

Originally posted by naiad
So, as Pearl asks of Elijah - I know what you mean Mel, but I think Elijah could give us that if put to it - based on his superb delivery of my favorite line in the entire book: 'I will take the ring, though, I do not know the way.' Therein lie those qualities that invite respect and deepen pity for Frolijah, don't you think Pearl? (Yes, if only he had read the book!)

Oh yes. :) And I love Frodo's moment at the Black Gate in TTT. 'I do not ask you to come with me, Sam.' Yes, Elwood shines in those moments, and there is the Book Frodo whom I love. :)

I love that moment of his at the Council of Elrond, naiad. I also love the line at Bag End: 'What must I do?', when his voice breaks.

But PJ simply didn't give me ENOUGH of this, in his writing of the character of Frodo, e.g. at Bruinen, reducing Frodo to a helpless pretty bundle being carried about by Arwen. And I still really hate it that Frodo drops his sword at Weathertop. :mad:

Sean Astin's words: The most sacred acting experience Ive ever had was at the top of Mount Ruapehu with Elijah Wood in my arms."

Oh, mama, indeed. :) Well, that makes me feel a bit better. :)

Note to self: stop worrying about ROTK, stop worrying about ROTK, stop worrying about ROTK ... :p

Eldalieva

07-24-2003, 06:49 AM

Sean Astin's words: The most sacred acting experience Ive ever had was at the top of Mount Ruapehu with Elijah Wood in my arms."

Gulp.

That just gave me goosebumps. Holy cow.

BLOSSOM

07-24-2003, 02:06 PM

Ainon - I just followed that link to your AICN interview post.

Quote from AICN report:
With the idea of new scenes floated, we tried for specifics, only to be met with an exchange of furtive glances between the hobbits, who issued, through Sean, a polite no-comment. I dont know how to talk about it without ruining it, allowed Sean, who stated further, you know how the story ends, not how the movie ends. And these would be spoilers. I dont know if I feel good about giving good spoilers. I want to answer your question, but I feel like I shouldnt.
__________________________________________________

'You know how the story ends, not how the movie ends.'

I wonder what Sean means by this, and should we be worried?

But I love the sound of that 'sacred acting experience' with Elijah in his arms.:)

I do think Sean deserves an Oscar nomination for Best Supporting actor for his Sam. Sam's devotion, loyalty and love for Frodo just shine through everytime he looks at him. Very moving.
But this Oscar business does continue to worry me. Will Elijah AND Viggo be up for Best Actor? Much as I like Viggo's Aragorn, IMO Elijah's task of portraying Frodo's very steep character arc is undoubtedly the most demanding role in the trilogy. In the first two films he is nothing short of astounding, and I'm confident he will take Frodo to new heights (and wonderfully angsty lows) in ROTK. I, for one, will be SO disappointed if Elijah loses out to Viggo, or gets completely overlooked. I mean no disrespect to the other actors. There are many wonderful performances in LOTR, and I have lots of favourite 'moments' with them all, but Elijah's amazing portrayal of Frodo deserves the highest recognition. I'm afraid to get my hopes up too high, though, as I have an awful feeling he will miss out.

Rant over.

Naiad - I share your concerns over PJ's take on Frodo's 'deterioration.' Film Frodo is younger, more vulnerable and therefore perhaps more inclined to fall under the Ring's power earlier than Book Frodo. But PJ has said countless times that Frodo IS the hero of LOTR, and I still hold out some hope that we WILL see something of Frodo's inner courage and determination in ROTK, despite Elijah's words. Essentially of course, he's right in saying 'Frodo is no longer Frodo.' Frodo at the Cracks of Doom will be a far cry from our beloved Party Fro!

I can't wait to see the trailers for ROTK, but I think they will be Frodo-light, and we'll have to wait until December to see more than we've seen already in the few spoiler-pics.

Mariole - I missed your rant the other day, but wish I had seen it before you deleted it.

Shireling - Glad to see you managed to stop Swoon... er... studying... in The Harem for a moment to pop in here! ;)

Maeg - So you've seen 'Try 17' at last. Sorry to hear you didn't like Jones very much. I'm sure he'll grow on you.:)

Peaceweaver - I'm off to Elve's site to check out the Comic-con clip right now.

Bye.

LetYourLoveShin

07-24-2003, 04:52 PM

Hello, everyone. While I have not yet mastered the art of screencapping, I shall hopefully be on my way soon with t he help of Blossom. That means lots of wonderful pics of Elijah. Yeah! Sorry, a little overenthusiastic, I suppose...

Who are we kidding? It's Elijah.

Anyway, when I read the post that there were very few screecaps of the Bumblebee FLies Anyway, I was very tempted to upload many, many pictures. Luckily, I caught myself before I inundated the site and overdid the band with. Then it occured to me, oh yes, I have my own site where they are already posted. Intelligent me. Anyway, the address is :

http://dirt.bravepages.com/elwood/Bumblebee/index.htm

Where you will find my 106 or so Bumblebee pictures. Enjoy!

Kelsey

Peachy

07-24-2003, 06:46 PM

Good gracious Kelsey, those pics should come with a warning. Bare chest.. kissing.. hey, that could be me on a good hair day!

That quote by Sean Astin was wonderful. :)

LetYourLoveShin

07-24-2003, 06:55 PM

Oops, Sorry. Well, here's a late warning. There is kissing and bare chest in the Bumblbee pictures in the links I posted above.

I have a bunch of other pics in the photo section of my site (click on the photos button after following above link), including Fellowship, TTT, ROTK, Ask Wednesday, Bumblebee, Chain of Fools, Deep Impact, Faculty, Flipper, Homicide, Huck Finn, Other Movies, and other miscellaneous Elijah pics.

Oh, and how do you upload pics on the board. I tried but am apparently technology deficient.

Kelsey

tgshaw

07-24-2003, 07:14 PM

Kelsey-- Good heavens :eek: (in a good way ;) )! That's quite a site for someone who hasn't started screencapping!

BTW, I hopped over to good ol' Star Galaxy yesterday to get those "watery" pics from Flipper and North. Hadn't been there since I started screencapping, and they've added a lot of Elijah pics since then (as well as having a " :cool: " new look). Most important to my quest, they've gone from one Day-O picture to a couple of pages of them. Does that mean it's out there somewhere...? I didn't have time yesterday, but I plan to drop back in to tell them how much I like the new style, and maybe ask where they came by the new pics--and there are definitely some "awww"-producing ones ;) . -- They don't have very many LotR pics; they probably figured there were enough of those around already ;) .

------------

Interesting interview with Salma Hayek on the Today Show this morning. Interesting, that is, from an EJW point-of-view, even though he wasn't mentioned.

Salma plays a supporting character in Spy Kids 3-D, so it would make three movies she and Elijah have been in together. [She was my favorite "adult" in The Faculty--the school nurse who had a horrible cold but wouldn't take a sick day because she was saving them for when she felt better :D -- I could certainly relate to that! And then, of course, we saw a lot of her ;) in CofF.]

Now, I know Matt Lauer is a "hard news" journalist, but he is so good with actor interviews. He obviously does his homework and always has some topic to bring up that goes beyond pure fluff. He mentioned that Salma had worked a lot for [ :o senior moment here--can't remember his first name] Rodriguez [?], who directed The Faculty.

She said he likes his cast to be "like family"--she's the godmother of his daughters--and he often calls her for small parts in his movies. He called her up regarding this part and said, "It's a short shoot! It'll be fun!" So, of course she said yes. I can just imagine him making that same call to Elijah :) -- although it sounds as if Elijah's shoot was even shorter (Salma's character at least has a name :p ).

So, anyway, nothing too profound there, but it made me kind of happy to hear about a director like that calling on Elijah for a small part, too. IMHO, Mr. R can't draw the level of acting out of Elijah that Ang Lee or PJ can, but sometimes it's okay just to kick back and be with family :) --which, actually, is what The Faculty has always seemed like to me, too.

But, Wow! What a career! :p In less than 15 years, Elijah's gone from playing "Video Game Kid #2" to "The Guy"... What more could an actor want out of life? :D

-----------------

naiad--Not to get too deeply into this, but you and I may be saying somewhat the same thing in different ways. What I was trying to emphasize is the importance of Frodo not thinking he could do the job "on his own." In Gospel terms, IMHO Frodo's the opposite of the "self-righteous" who think they can do everything--including saving themselves--without any help from God (and end up being lost :( ). Frodo knows from the start that he has to depend on something beyond himself (he calls on Elbereth twice before he even makes it to Rivendell). It takes a special kind of strength to be able to do that, and I don't think his doing so makes him any less noble or admirable--quite the opposite.

Like I said, I'm curious to see how this will play out in the movies, but I'm not worrying about it. We've been following a "different" Frodo through the first two movies, and I'm sure he'll continue to be "different" in the third. But I still want to see where it takes him :) .

LetYourLoveShin

07-24-2003, 07:20 PM

Thanx. ;) I've been gathering Elijah pictures for a couple of years now, so I have a bit of a collection. But I still can't get my own straight from the DVD. It's rather depressing.

Kelsey

naiad

07-24-2003, 09:30 PM

In Gospel terms, IMHO Frodo's the opposite of the "self-righteous" who think they can do everything--including saving themselves--without any help...
I'm absolutely with you there, Tg! :)

And Pearl - Thanks for your post - your sentiments exactly speak for mine :k .
And I love all your favorite movie-Fro moments, especially the fear-swallowing 'what must I do'.

Blossom - Wonderful quote about the hobbits responding to questioning! I can just imagine them conferring, then letting Sean speak up in his glib way. They're so sweet! Thanks for fetching that bit for us.

Re: Oscars. I honestly think that only the role of Frodo qualifies as Best Actor material, great acting by the others notwithstanding. The other roles don't require - nor are they given - the depth and nuance of Frodo's character. Supporting roles maybe... Plus, pitting Elijah against any of this fellowship brothers in contest for the prize would be completely out-of-line, IMO.

Well, I'm happy to wait as long as may be for movie ROTK. Am quite content with hopeful speculation in lieu of, possibly, raging disappointment. What I'm REALLY psyched about is the November TTT - the surprises there can only be good ones, i figure.

ainon

07-24-2003, 10:34 PM

Originally posted by BLOSSOM
'You know how the story ends, not how the movie ends.'

I wonder what Sean means by this, and should we be worried?

No. :) Because he's right. We don't know if the movie ends with the Grey Havens, or if there'll be an epilogue, or even what happens in the Shire after the hobbits return. I'm so giddy with all the possibilities ... so far, two movies have ended with Frodo & Sam together, and we watch as they embark on the next stage of their journey. Will RotK's final scene be on Frodo, as he glimpses the green land stretching before him? I'm lightheaded happy just thinking about it!

As for the Oscar buzz, that usually comes from within their entertainment industry, when enough people have seen a performance to comment on it. We'll see how it builds for RotK. I'm encouraged by the buzz for Sean Astin from among his LOTR colleagues, because if Sean is that good, the quality of Elijah's performance off him will be heightened as well. I love Frodo and I agree only the lead accolades are worthy for Frodo's character, but the reality is that Elijah is still very young to be a Best Actor Oscar contender. If Viggo puts in an exemplary performance as well, then it's likely the Oscar campaign might weigh in more on Viggo - I think I'd rather that happen :eek: than have him compete against Viggo or Sean in the same category on that night! :eek: :eek: Oh, who knows, and whatever! It's still too premature to talk about the Best Actor at the Oscars! :p Besides, I'd prefer that Elijah take everyone by surprise with his performance when the movie comes out, than for there to be a premature buzz before the movie that he is forced to live up to.

Kelsey, I'll have to check your site later, when I go home. Thanks. Screencapping is easy: get started and be addicted, and join our meetings! We're all to here to help if you run into snags. :) As for uploading an image, well, easiest is to link to it. Copy and paste the URL of that particular image as a link:

http://photobucket.com/albums/0603/ainon/Huckleberry%20Finn%20Page/802a8047.jpg

Or: Moderately angsty Huck (http://photobucket.com/albums/0603/ainon/Huckleberry%20Finn%20Page/2c68feaa.jpg)

Click 'quote' at the bottom of my post and you'll see how I did it. :)

If you'd like the pic to appear in your post (provided it's not too large and your site allows direct linking) simply paste your image URL between tags, like what I've done here:

http://photobucket.com/albums/0603/ainon/Huckleberry%20Finn%20Page/403a8b42.jpg

The closing tag will be .

Good luck! :cool:

Mariole

07-24-2003, 11:08 PM

from LetYourLoveShin
here's a late warning. There is kissing and bare chest in the Bumblbee pictures in the links I posted above.
That isn't a warning, Kelsey, it's an advertisement. :D I did spot a few Froshadows in the bunch. I'd have to see it again to suggest any others, though.

Thank you for pointing me to your site. What an amazing collection! I'll snoop around when I have a moment, which won't be for some days. I'm going out of town for 3 days starting tomorrow noon, and have all the predictable things I must do. But I'll be back, perusing caps, as soon as I can! I want to check out Star Galaxy, as well.

I'm loving all the comments people are posting from AICN. I'm glad TPTB let the reports be published. I love the behind-the-scenes peek.

Re: Spy Kids 3 -- I think I'll wait for the video to come out.

Whiteling, I greatly enjoyed CoF. If you order it from yesasia.com, you won't be disappointed. Mikey II is just too fun to pass up. (And yes, I can capture a few angsty moments, but overall I think he's got a bigger smirk factor going for him than Huck.) I agree with tg; you don't even notice the subtitles. However, I do try to avoid them for my comparison caps if I can.

Blossom, my rant was way crabby. I don't think I should leave snarky comments lying about in a public forum; they assume too much weight that way. I just was feeling insecure in my anticipated Frodo allotment for ROTK. I love that little guy!

Hi, shireling! Please don't feel unobservant. I like this group because people keep pointing out things I've missed, in a movie or a character.

For example, right now I'm in an extremely positive phase. I think that ROTK will have all of the magic that (for me) the FOTR did. Why? Who knows? :p It's just a feeling. But I'm thinking that I will be so moved by the performances in this third piece, that I won't mind the slightly altered story line. I'm not even worried about the ending. Sean A could have been referring to the omission of the Shire scouring. See, look at me! La la la, happy as could be! (Wonder how long this will last...)

Maeg, so nice to hear your thoughts on Try 17, especially regarding the wild fantasies. That would have been cool! I think that this is a movie that one can pick at, but I don't think one can really pick it apart (a la AW, which frankly came out of the box pretty unraveled). The more I look into it, the more it intrigues me.

from tgshaw
But, Wow! What a career! In less than 15 years, Elijah's gone from playing "Video Game Kid #2" to "The Guy"... What more could an actor want out of life?
:D On the serious side, I'm trying not to get wound up about what the Academy might do regarding awards. I think Elijah's Frodo is way deserving. But then, Sir Ian didn't score with Gandalf, so who knows. But the box office has certainly shown what the public thinks of this effort. Ainon, excellent point about Astin's performance strengthening Elijah's, and vice versa. That's encouraging news!

But please, what naiad said. Let's not have any two LOTR actors pitted against each other, in any category. I can't stand that kind of stress! (Unfortunately I must also agree with you re the TTT EE; I found the TV a bit of a disappointment, for me.)

Up with ROTK!

LetYourLoveShin

07-24-2003, 11:56 PM

Another point to consider with all the Oscar buzz is that it is biased against fantasy. The Academy seems so wound up in their own politics and giving awards to people who have deserved them previous years (therefore snubbing someone else who will likely recieve it later for a lesser role.) As much as I want ELijah to win Best actor and ROTK to take best picture, I wonder if the Academy will be able to get past that prejudice.

Kelsey

P.S. Tolkein had to deal with the same thing with his book. Fantasy was considered a "lower" form of literature, and still often is. Shows what they know...

http://dirt.bravepages.com/elwood/Bumblebee/images/I%20remember_jpg_jpg.jpg

quicksilver

07-25-2003, 07:27 AM

Originally posted by Naiad
What I'm REALLY psyched about is the November TTT - the surprises there can only be good ones, i figure.

Well.... if you like more Boz and Faz and Merry and Pippin and Treebeard, Aragorn and Eowyn you'll be happy. But if the DVD magazines over here are to be believed, there's no extra Frodo and Sam scenes. :( Of course theres always the "extra's " .....

LYLS your Bumblebee pics have really made me more determined to see track that film down. (and no, the chest and the kissing had nothing to do with that decision ;) I just prefer to see Elwood in more "grown up roles " Its true! Look- I have the video of Huck Finn unopened at home!)

CoF sounds good too and there are plenty of R2 copies on ebay for when I've saved up enough cash. And Try 17 is another one on my list but does anyone know if a PS2 will play VCD's? (Havent got a DVD player yet.... hubby wants to hold out for a recordable DVD player when the price falls)

I saw an Ed Burns film recently (She's the One )and boy he loves those walking shots doesnt he? :p Walking with his girlfriend, walking with his brother Francis (wasnt that Elijah's name in AW?) Francis walking with his wife.... I think he just keeps the same shots for each film and just writes a new screenplay around them !

Anyway- back to lurkdom for me....

peaceweaver

07-25-2003, 07:48 AM

I'm not sure what to do now! Here is a review from USA Today, which gave "Spy Kids 3" three stars (out of four!):

"Some of the film's extended cameos are great, too: Salma Hayak as a top-level agent, Elijah Wood as the guru within the video game and George Clooney as the surprisingly presidential commander-in-chief."

Lordy, can I stand paying money for this tripe to see Elwood in 3-D? :eek:

tg, what you said about EW coming full-circle is truer than you thought! He's gone from "Video Game player" to "Video Guru"! :p

tgshaw

07-25-2003, 08:14 AM

Originally posted by ainon
... so far, two movies have ended with Frodo & Sam together...
Want even more possibilities? Pure speculation--reread what I just quoted from ainon and then keep in mind that PJ & Co. have rights to the LotR appendices, too... ;) I don't know if that's the ending I'd prefer that they use, but it has intriguing possibilities, yes??

Possible RotK spoiler--from several years ago, so may have been changed

For anyone who wasn't following the LotR movie news during the main filming stage, there were a couple of stills released of Sam and Elenor. .

Sean A's family was with him in NZ, and--in the photos, anyway--his RL daughter played Elanor, which I thought was a terribly sweet idea. Only thing is, she was about 3 years old at the time, while at the end of LotR Elenor is less than a year old. The pics are of Sam with his arms wide open and Elanor running into his embrace--certainly looks as if he's returning from having been away for awhile.

If this footage is still being used (who knows :rolleyes: -- I thought even at the time that it might have been shot primarily for the family and released to keep us off-track ;) ), my guess would be that with Sam not having to take all that time to clean up the mess in the Shire and replant all the trees, he and Rosie "produce" Elanor sooner than in the book. Then they could have an older Elanor at the end while giving Frodo his several years in the Shire post-quest--Which I hope they do, even if it's just mentioned. IMHO it's important to the character and the story.

But the pics released way-back-when would be wonderful and touching for "Well, I'm back," even if not quite book canon :) .

End possible RotK spoiler

Can you believe that back during the main shooting a lot of us thought PJ actually knew what scenes he was going to use in all three movies, and how he wanted them shot? :D :D

So many possibilities for the ending that could be true to the book, each in its own way. As long as we see one of them, I don't really care which it is :) .

OTOH, with so many possibilities that could be true to the book, we'd better see [i]one of them, if you take my meaning...[insert non-smiling smilie with narrowed eyes looking meaningfully toward PJ.] No need to "make something up."

--------------

Quicksilver--just saw your post... Francis was actually the name of Ed's character in Ash Wednesday. On your overall comments, yeah, I think that's one reason Ed was originally touted as such an inventive filmmaker but has now pretty much dropped out of view. He just seems to replay the same things, and even if you imitate yourself, it's still imitation :rolleyes: . Along with the fact that if he ever had a coherent, logical story, he seems to have used it up already :( .

Re the TTT DVD--As I understand it, there are no new Frodo and Sam scenes in the extended version, but some of their scenes that are already in the movie are likely to have added footage. If there's any kind of effort to straighten out the Osgiliath jumble, that will almost have to be true.

--------------

peaceweaver--Now I just saw your post! C'mon, guys, I have to get to the office :p !

I don't know if it makes any difference, but the first Spy Kids movie was actually supposed to be pretty good, judging from the reviews. IIRC, the second one didn't get as good reviews as the first, but this one is seeming to make at least some of the critics happy again. So, it might not be too bad an example of that kind of movie--if you can stand that kind of movie, at all. I'm not going to worry about seeing it opening weekend, but if I can find somebody's kid to take along as a "cover" ;) I might just go for it.

Elijah's role sounds almost like a "warm-up" for ESOTSM. SpyKids 3D takes place mostly within a video game and ESOTSM takes place largely inside Jim Carrey's brain :eek: ! Not sure which is more frightening! And Elijah plays a "tech" role in each one.

Thinking of EJW's interviews--might this be a dream role for him? Being inside a video game ;) ?

erendis

07-25-2003, 08:53 AM

Of course PJ has rights to the Appendices. Elrond's voicover to Tomb!Arwen in TTT ("until your last day is spent" or whatever (is verbatim Appendix, so I would expect to somehow incoroporate the Further Events Concerning the Fellowship (end of Appendix B). 18 months ago I said I wanted the RotK end shot to be Sam getting off the boat in Eressea and meeting Frodo, and now I have a little hope for that.

I can only agree with Sean Astin that sitting with Elijah in one's arms would be a "sacred" experience, Mt. Ruapehu or no. *sigh*

shilohmm

07-25-2003, 09:33 AM

Bridget posted this to the Playgroup a while back.

http://thepusherrobot.perlmonk.org/chubs/images/other/frodo-borg.gif

:eek: :eek: :eek:

Oh, and I've seen Try 17. :) This fact is totally unrelated to the image above. ;)

Sheryl

peaceweaver

07-25-2003, 10:17 AM

Originally posted by erendis
I can only agree with Sean Astin that sitting with Elijah in one's arms would be a "sacred" experience, Mt. Ruapehu or no. *sigh*

Oh, erendis....what an image!

Mind if I join you in this particular fantasy? ;)

Mariole

07-25-2003, 11:20 AM

Looking at Sheyl's picture: "Resistance is futile."

Just a quick note: STEVE PERSALL of the St. Petersburg Times has an Oscar-speculation article:

http://www.sptimes.com/2003/07/24/Floridian/Umm__the_best_is_yet_.shtml

I'm also holding out for extended Frodo/Sam scenes in the TTT EE. Also looking forward to the features, but I expect they will be extremely Gollum- and Helm's Deep-centric.

I know nothing about Spy Kids (any number). Is this worth seeing...????

I'm with you, quicksilver. I want to see more EW as a grown-up. Bumblebee is a lovely movie if you can find it (I rented mine).

Off to pack...

shilohmm

07-25-2003, 11:28 AM

Originally posted by Mariole
Looking at Sheyl's picture: "Resistance is futile."

Gee, maybe I should post that in the Harem after all... :D

Originally posted by Mariole

I know nothing about Spy Kids (any number). Is this worth seeing...????

I thought the first Spy Kids was okay. In some ways I preferred the second (because I've seen all the movies he's bounced off of, I suspect), but I hated the excrement humor in that one. I'm crazy about the commentary on the second one - I watch it that way the most. :D As kid movies they're both better than average, but they're pretty definitely kid movies, so if you have no tolerance for that sort of thing you should give them a pass.

Originally posted by Mariole

Off to pack...

I should be doing that myself, but I'm too busy procrastinating...

Sheryl

peaceweaver

07-25-2003, 11:39 AM

This is from Yahoos Gregs Previews: About Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind

Release Date Note: (7/24/03) Focus Features was originally aiming for an Oscar-friendly platform release starting on November 14th, 2003, but they have now pushed it to 2004 instead. My hunch is that this movie, which probably has a complicated editing process, may end up being released *next* fall for Oscar consideration then.

I cannot stand it.

:( :( :(

Narya Celebrian

07-25-2003, 12:53 PM

I don't think changing the dates / format of release is all that uncommon in the movie industry. When Cate Blanchett was on (Leno or Letterman - I don't remember which), he was joking about how busy she must have been since she had three movies coming out all at once (Fellowship, Charlotte Gray, and one other I don't remember). She laughed and talked about how the three films were actually filmed over a three year period, and various studio delays / reshoots / postproduction issues / changes in plans due to other movie release dates resulted in all three coming out at once, though they were filmed over a long period.

Now that I'm watching the movie industry in a completely different way than I used to (read 'now that I'm paying any attention to it at all' :p) I've noticed this happening more with movies, especially those that are not hyped far ahead of time as potential 'major blockbusters'. It would be interesting to follow a random selection of non-EW movies to see exactly how common it is that the potential release date that is set before filming starts is ultimately changed. My impression is that this happens reasonably often - at least often enough that it isn't automatically a danger sign.

mel headstrong

07-25-2003, 01:19 PM

I bet the reason Eternal Sunshine's release is being delayed has to do with 1) uncertainty about how to time the limited release of a movie that could pick up critical acclaim and slowly grow in popularity (like a lot of Oscar-bait movies do), given that the Oscars are going to be earlier this year, and 2) not wanting to compete with a certain other Elijah Wood-movie that's got a lot of pre-release buzz. ;)

Moving the Oscar date may bode very well for RotK -- although it's being released late in the year, the first two movies have built up high expectations for it. It won't need word-of-mouth to get seen -- FotR and TTT took care of the must-see factor. And by being released so late, it might scare other competitors into chickening out of this year's Oscar race, figuring that next year the field will be more open and they'd have a better chance.

Mel

tgshaw

07-26-2003, 07:40 AM

Originally posted by Narya Celebrian
Now that I'm watching the movie industry in a completely different way than I used to (read 'now that I'm paying any attention to it at all' :p) I've noticed this happening more with movies, especially those that are not hyped far ahead of time as potential 'major blockbusters'. It would be interesting to follow a random selection of non-EW movies to see exactly how common it is that the potential release date that is set before filming starts is ultimately changed. My impression is that this happens reasonably often - at least often enough that it isn't automatically a danger sign.
Yep--ditto ;) . Look at Thumbsucker, which has been delayed both with and without Elijah. And, much as we like to think otherwise ;) , ESOTSM is considered by the industry, anyway, to be a Jim Carrey movie (despite the "also interested in" record at amazon.com). Mel's thinking on that one makes sense to me. Add in Cate's comments, and similar things I've heard actors say in interviews, and I don't think Elijah's "record" on release changes is different from anyone else's. Thank goodness that hasn't happened with any of the LotR movies (or how could I schedule my December vacation day in January :p ?). But they have two things in their favor: the primary filming being done all at once, and the fact that NewLine knows their corporate offices would be stormed by obsessed fans if they tried ;) .

So, I'm disappointed but not surprised by the ESOTSM news. Disappointed because I'm really looking forward to seeing it. But it may end up being the best thing for the movie and the actors.

So, I guess it's back to an earlier question--any news about "Happy Feet" :) ?? Having just seen "Finding Nemo" I'm actually kinda looking forward to that one, too.

Oh, we do have one other movie to think about, don't we--if anyone gets dragged to Spy Kids 3-D this weekend, be sure to post a report on that "extended cameo" :) .

Hobmom

07-26-2003, 01:52 PM

Good news from Amazon! 'All I Want' is back up for pre-orders for a Sept.16 release.

I guess enough of us said we wanted it.:D

Gladys

07-27-2003, 02:33 AM

I've just posted some TTT- Extended Edition *spoilers* (http://www.khazaddum.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2112) from AICN over in the "movies" forum.

There's a bit about a "new ending" which apparently includes some alteration/addition to the Osgiliath scenes, but there's not a lot of detail given. (The provider of the spoilers seems to be rather Man-oriented. Revelations about the origins of Brego the Wonder Horse get almost as much space as spoilers about Frodo/Sam/Gollum in this account. :rolleyes: )

Hobmom

07-27-2003, 03:14 AM

Man oriented! That's exactly what I thought!

Brego!!!! Men just do NOT get that FRODO is the heart of the story.

There are only something like TWO mentions of Frodo additions to the SE DVD...though I'm sure there are more in extended scenes. Leave it to a male to miss the important parts. :rolleyes:

Haven't these poor deprived creatures read the books?
Frodo IS the central character....Right? :rolleyes:

Resists urge to THWACK! first male I see for their denseness.

Maeglian

07-27-2003, 03:34 AM

Resists urge to THWACK! first male I see for their denseness. :D Even if first male you see happens to be called Elijah?

Non-spoilery comments on spoilers

I think all the spoilers sound great, with the possible exeption of more focus on Brego. All those scenes sound like must-sees. Of course I'd like to have more F&S, more F&S, but what is there sounds really good. Especially that last one about Osgiliath and Faramir..... I'm hoping that scene will finally make sense to me!!!

Even if it isn't mentioned, I wonder if they altered the sequence of the HA scenes and removed the disappering barrels blooper? I'm really surprised if they didn't.

End comments on spoilers
From tg:
Much as we like to think otherwise , ESOTSM is considered by the industry, anyway, to be a Jim Carrey movie... "Bruce Almighty" just premiered over here, to much less than rave reviews (although with some kind words for Jennifer Aniston's acting.) One major paper had the following to say about Jim Carrey's performance: Jim Carrey is just 2 films shy of becoming Eddie Murphy. Then not even God will be able to help him. Of course I'm wondering if ESOTSM won't just send JC further down the same road. But then again, I have JC pretty much on the top of "actors I avoid at all cost" list, even the "Truman Show" did not change that one bit, although that one was at least tolerable to watch.

Gladys

07-27-2003, 03:45 AM

Hobmom said:
Man oriented! That's exactly what I thought!

Brego!!!! Men just do NOT get that FRODO is the heart of the story. I actually meant "Man" in the sense of the race of Men, but your interpretation is true too, I think! :D

whiteling

07-27-2003, 07:18 AM

Originally posted by Maeglian

But then again, I have JC pretty much on the top of "actors I avoid at all cost" list, even the "Truman Show" did not change that one bit, although that one was at least tolerable to watch.

Oh, I couldn't agree more with you, Maeglian!
You know, Jim Carrey is the top Master of Macroexpressions :D !

tgshaw

07-27-2003, 09:05 AM

Originally posted by Maeglian
:D Even if first male you see happens to be called Elijah?
...and we need to remember it was someone with a Y chromosome who started this thread (although such creatures seem to have disappeared lately :( ). So there are exceptions to the denseness factor :) .

Even using Gladys's intended meaning, I'm not upset about the mix in the additions on the extended DVD. Let's face it, it was the Men who had most of the head-scratching "huh?" scenes in the theatrical version. I'd be much happier if we'd never met Brego, but if he's going to be in the movie at all he might as well make some sense :rolleyes: . And IMHO, anything that can clarify the Osgiliath material will be a good addition for F&S, even if they're not in it.

There are some scenes obviously added for the "cute" or "humorous" factor :rolleyes: , which will probably have me hitting the Next Scene key, but at least the majority of the additions sound like improvements.

Thanks for the news Gladys!

------------Yep, Hobmom, I got my email from amazon.com about All I Want being available for pre-order. That deserves a :) .

------------whiteling, LOL at your "macroexpression" statement. :D

---------------------------------------

;)

It's a few hours later and mine is still the last post, but I made a horrible mistake :eek: for which I feel I must beg immediate forgiveness from each and every Elijah Jordan Wood fan whom I scandalized or misled :( .

I recently said EJW started his movie career as Video Game Boy #2. However, just now, I was checking on some of his other roles at IMDb and see that he was really Video Game Boy #1!! I assure you this error was purely unintentional and without any malice on my part toward said Elijah Jordan Wood and/or those who love him.

;)

BTW, regarding Happy Feet, IMDb says "animation is underway" and gives a projected release date of 2006.

Hobmom

07-27-2003, 05:36 PM

Maeg-Even if first male you see happens to be called Elijah?

No, no... of course not.;) Not likely to see him around here in Amish country in PA.

Gladys-I actually meant "Man" in the sense of the race of Men, but your interpretation is true too, I think!

LOL :D I just really got the ' a man wrote this' impression when I read it at AICN. So I figured that's what you meant. But the other way round isn't the way ROTK should be either. Sure the men do their bit but Frodo is, was and always will be the hero and heart of all LOTR. So why don't these guys get that?
I WILL thwack the first man I see!...Except Elijah. ;) :D

peaceweaver

07-27-2003, 09:24 PM

Omigosh! Did you all see the news?! The Cast of LoTR *is* going to be on "Inside the Actor's Studio"!!!! Woo Hoo! Along with Peter Jackson! So our wish is going to be granted! (At least a little bit: someone with Elijah Wood's credits deserves his own show). But I won't be greedy, as long as decent questions are asked and Elwood talks about his craft!

This event is scheduled for Sept 29 on Bravo.

I guess the PR bandwagon is getting a very early start for RoTK.

Hobmom

07-27-2003, 10:09 PM

Wow! That's fantastic! Can't wait!

Though I would,of course, like to see Elijah get a whole show for himself.

estella rose

07-28-2003, 07:54 AM

[delurk]

Happy (Belated) Birthday Ainon, Prim, and Narya
(and anyone else I may have missed :o)

http://www.click-smilie.de/sammlung/party/party-smiley-015.gif

Mariole, your comparison pictures are truly wonderful, as are Hobmoms new screencaps. :D

{{{{{faculty}}}}} for continuing the amazingly high standard of EJW scholarship.

I wish I could see the Actors Studio program, that sounds like it should be extremely interesting. I dont think the program is broadcast here, though. :( :( :(

[relurks, hoping to be back again soon]

Elenillor

07-28-2003, 10:54 PM

OK: first off, Hi Faculty!:)

My husband and I just went to see Spy Kids 3D. (We have no kids; this factor shouldn't keep any of you away either ;).)
This series is really well above average for kids' movies, and the writing is definitely pitched to the adults as much as the kids.
The film itself is cute, surreal, and funny.
As always, the theme is *Family*.
The 3D gimmick is unnecessary, and tiring on the eyes.

Elijah's cameo is hilarious :D.

Bottom line: if you can tolerate the glasses, go ahead and see the movie.
I expect the DVD will come out in 2D...:)

(((Faculty)))

Hobmom

07-29-2003, 02:42 AM

Thanks Ellenilor! I am now toying with the idea of actually seeing Spy Kids 3D. Anything ...almost..... for Lij! ;)

I've fallen back into my capping addiction and went through the FOTR Ex E DVD and tried to cap those many tearful, micro-expressions and they are here with the rest....More Fro-caps (http://groups.msn.com/ElijahSummer03/shoebox.msnw?Page=63)

I really think I caught all those 'in between' expressions that haven't been capped before. Like this one which I NEVER noticed before!
http://www.angelfire.com/celeb2/elijahw/PDVD_169.jpg
Sigh!!! Such tedious work!! ;)

Have fun browsing! :D

tgshaw

07-29-2003, 08:43 AM

Hobmom--Ah, the wonders of microexpressions! Whether it's a blessing or a curse (to screencappers, that is ;) ), it's just a fact that each frame shot of Elijah is so expressive that it's hard to choose (there are some scenes where I've just given up and capped each frame--but then which ones to post? :confused: ). And, going w-a-y back to early discussions, IMVHO in large part that's because of those in-between expressions.

I think I've mentioned before that I've actually tried to give the same treatment to other actors in the LotR movies, thinking maybe I was prejudiced, but whatever other good qualities their acting has, none of them let you know what the character is thinking and feeling the way Elijah can. His only close competitor, IMHO, is Ian Holm--when the two of them are on-screen together... I have no words, except that I wish there were more scenes of Frodo and Bilbo together (another reason to wish Bilbo hadn't been "kicked out" of the Council in the movie :( ).

Anyway, having looked at the first few pages of Hobmom's new caps :) :

My favorites are those of leaving Lothlorien. In the movie, there's that added angst of having just realized he has to leave the Fellowship. But IMHO the even deeper angst is the one that's already there in the book--when Frodo leaves Lothlorien, he knows he's on his way to destroy it. The gentle, loving descriptions of the place that he left us in the Red Book are heartbreaking in that light. (I'm not sure if, in the movie, the actor understood that part of things, but from his face, I'd say the character did :) -- part of the Frolijah phenomenon, IMHO.)

The caps that were the biggest surprise to me are the ones from the Council. I much prefer the theatrical version Council, so I've only watched the extended version one a couple of times. I may have to pay more attention to it just to watch Frodo :) . The pics of him during the "shadow" are amazing. Thanks for those, especially, Hobmom.

[Gee, that felt nice! Haven't had a good Elijah rave in a long time :p .]

---------Elenillor, thanks for the Spy Kids report. Can I ask a really stupid question :o ? What happens if you don't wear the 3-D glasses? Do you see two separate images that are even harder on the eyes? I wear really strong glasses to begin with (I wouldn't be able to see anything on the screen if I took them off!), and am trying to figure out how the two pairs will "co-exist."

[Afterthought... hmmm... if the 3-D glasses do merge two separate images, I might get by with my regular ones, as that's just one of their many features :rolleyes: . Besides astigmatism and nearsightedness, I have natural double vision, so my glasses have correction for that. If anyone remembers those 3-D pictures from a few years back, where there was a "magic" picture hidden--they were impossible for me unless I took my glasses off, because they absolutely wouldn't allow my eyes to separate the two images to see the hidden picture. Do I feel a research project coming on... :eek: ? ]

Mariole

07-29-2003, 10:04 AM

Just a quick note to post a link to an article where Elijah and Dominic talk about ROTK:

http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1474792/20030725/index.jhtml?headlines=true

True to form, they aren't mentioning anything past Shelob's lair. The conspiracy to hide further adventures (whether there is one or not) continues.

Hobmom, thanks for all the wonderful caps! I hope to get back to a little capping one of these days, when time permits.

tgshaw

07-29-2003, 01:19 PM

Originally posted by Mariole
The conspiracy to hide further adventures (whether there is one or not) continues.
Yeah, it wouldn't need to be a conspiracy for the guys to individually decide, "Hey, I'm not going to be the one to let it out!" :D Especially for the MTV audience, which probably supplies a lot of moviegoers who aren't book readers. In a way, hedging around it almost seems like one of those little winks to the fans. But wouldn't it be nice if Merry could be in at least one "Conspiracy" :p ?

Saving Private Ryan was an interesting comparison...

-----------

Hobmom

07-29-2003, 01:33 PM

When does Cappers Anon. meet?

Tg- I know what you mean about not knowing what to do with all the caps once you get them. I did get most of them up on that link of mine but I could just cap thousands of the things and then what? Now I am trying to get a few more Merry, Pippin and Sam caps to add to the stories on my updated all Hobbit Fanfic site Shire-Side Tales (http://www.angelfire.com/celeb2/elijahw/Shire-Side_Tales.html) which is on a separate bunch of pages on my Lij Site (http://www.angelfire.com/celeb2/elijahw/).

In case you all haven't read about it in the Fanfiction thread it is het-only Hobbit stories that are a little more family-friendly than most other sites.... and I've managed to already snag some great writers to post there.... right now you'll just see mostly my stuff there and Pearl's but some very good stories will be going up in the next week.

End of shameless plug..but I know some who post mainly here in the Faculty might be interested in this new little Fro-Friendly spot on the net. And there are very nice Frolijah pics for each story.

Back to Lij.
I read that MTV interview. But has anyone read what Sean Astin said at GenCon yesterday?

From a reviewer at TORN-
" the highlight of Seans fabulous and incredibly personal Q&A. Someone asked him about one of the scenes in ROTK where he and Elijah Wood are at the top of the volcano. He told us that crying on cue was always very difficult for him as an actor up until he filmed Rudy. He had a breakthrough in Rudy during that wonderful scene where he reads the letter that lets him know whether he has made it into Notre Dame on his very last chance to apply, but said at that point he could not control himself. In fact, he said that what you see on screen is him trying not to cry until he was supposed to! So he described filming this scene in New Zealand in which he felt hed finally graduated he could cry when he needed to but in a controlled fashion. He said they were given new lines right before the filming and then said something like, I was cradling Elijah in my arms and saying this incredible poetry and it all just clicked. He described it as a sacred moment and said he couldnt believe it when Peter Jackson came over after a take and Peter was crying! We were all basket cases just hearing Sean tell this story! To me it was especially poignant that Sean didnt describe himself as Sam cradling Frodo but referred instead to himself cradling Elijah, using his friends name instead of the characters."

Sniff! I cannot wait to see this!!!!!!

Maeglian

07-29-2003, 03:15 PM

Hi, Estella Rose! :)

Hobmom, wonderful Frodo cap, and very moving Sean Astin quote. However.....

Spoilery speculation in order to put a jinx on a Mt.Doom scene I do *not* want to see!

they were given new lines right before the filming and then said something like, I was cradling Elijah in my arms and saying this incredible poetry I've seen him refer to the incredible poetry as couple of times now. Suddenly I am afraid that we are going to get a Mt. Doom scene, after the Ring has been destroyed, and before the eagles come, with Sam cradling a near-unconscious and non-verbal Frodo in his arms and Telling the Audience what the Trilogy has all been about! ie. Sam's tearful UN Speech take II. You know, - "The children of the world have been saved! Beauty and Truth will prevail! ..... The Shire is safe....... even if we will not return there......... Ours not to reason why, ours but to do and die..... my heart will go on, even if I don't..... I am proud that we did this deed, we helped throw down the Dark Lord from his Throne of Terror so that the world is a safer place to live in.... etc."

Basically, much as am thrilled by the spoilers SA lets slip about the filming of this scene with PJ crying and all, I do *not* wish to see something like *that*. Nope. I want the book's relatively simple "End of all things / I'm glad you are with me/I won't give up yet" dialogue between Frodo and Sam. That is poetry enough for me.

And since I don't think I've *ever* been right in my LotR speculations, the fact that I've now speculated the above should ensure that *that* is not what we're getting. Therefore it was well worth posting it, even though it'll probably earn me an utterly well-deserved trout for being too negative from ainon and others. :o

End of spoilery "I don't want this to happen" speculation

Oh, and I'd like to mention that Shadowfax8 posted the following over in the fanfiction thread:As you may know, or not, a Lord of the Rings convention is taking place in Toronto this year, over the release date of ROTK. The Gathering of the Fellowship will host wonderful Tolkien programming, a masquerade and banquet at Medieval Times, and most importantly, a showing of all three LOTR films in one day, culminating with the premiere of ROTK. But even more exciting than that, celebrity guests have been invited! (snip) West of the Moon and frodoandsam.net have teamed up to sponsor a potential appearance by Elijah Wood at the Gathering. Good luck to you, Elve, in working to achieve this! The Toronto convention sounds great. :)

There's also a raffle to raise money to get Elijah Wood to visit Toronto. More about that over at FrodoandSam.net.

Edit: Sheryl, if you are reading this, could you please empty that constantly full mailbox? :)

BLOSSOM

07-29-2003, 03:49 PM

Hello Faculty.

Hobmom - What a DE-LI-CI-OUS (or should it be DE-LIJ-CI-OUS?) set of Frodo screencaps!:) :) :)

Although I have both the theatrical and extended FOTR DVD's to watch whenever I want to, and have hundreds - nay, thousands, (they mount up so quickly, as Tg will testify!) of screencaps of my own to look at, I still couldn't resist right-clicking and saving yours too!

I LOVED those shots of Frodo hiding/leaning against the tree after he had left Aragorn at Amon Hen, where he's looking at Merry and Pippin. I have watched this scene countless times, but those pics of yours really capture the emotion Frodo is feeling there. He has a sort of mind-meld with Merry, who realizes that Frodo is leaving, and with the approach of the orcs Frodo understands that his two friends are willing to risk their own lives so that he can get safely away. It's heart-breaking. Thank you.

I agree with Tg about Frodo leaving Lothlorien too. This is when his mind becomes set on going alone, and though he has little to say, his thoughts and emotions are clearly evident. Interesting point about Frodo's conversation with Aragorn at Amon Hen, when Aragorn 'lets him go.' Frodo says, 'Look after the others, especially Sam. He will not understand.' Ironically, book Sam was the only one who DID understand, saying (something like) 'He'll screw himself up to go, and he'll want to go alone.'

Going through your collection, Hobmom, I was thinking to myself that every member of The Faculty knows which scene each cap comes from, which line of dialogue is spoken before, during or after that particular frame. Well, I do anyway. Who needs a life?!!! I love this film. I love this thread. I love Frolijah!

Only a few weeks to wait for the TT DVD.:) I can't believe I've only seen TT three times! And it's been AGES since I saw it! I REALLY need that DVD! Has anyone heard anything about trailers for ROTK? It's been a long, long year!

Tg - You mentioned how Elijah and Ian Holm are good together on screen. I agree. There are too few Frodo/Bilbo scenes, but Elijah does say during the commentary how great it was to be able to work 'one on one' with Ian Holm, they both being Hobbits. Although I think he's naturally fairly confident, I get the impression that Elijah was a little nervous about working with Ian. Do you recall the story about other members of the cast asking Ian Holm to sign books for them? I'm sure the hobbit boys discuss this during the FOTR commentary. Ian wrote quite personal little messages to everyone, but Elijah was too shy to ask him, and simply left his book in Ian's trailer. When he got it back, Ian had just written something like, 'All the best, Ian Holm.' Seemed he didn't know whose book it was. Aaah!!!

Mariole - they never give anything away, do they?

Hello Elenillor. We have no kids either, but I'm sure my 10 year-old nephew will get 'Spy Kids 3' when it comes out on DVD, so I'm confident of seeing Elijah's cameo eventually. Perhaps I might just tag along if he goes to see it at the cinema.

Hobmom. Yes I saw that quote from Sean about his 'sacred acting experience, cradling Elijah in his arms.' Oh, the angst of it all!!! And I'll be paying a visit to your little Fro-friendly spot very soon.

Great news about the cast and PJ being on 'Inside The Actor's Studio.' In the UK this airs on satellite on 'Performance' or 'Biography.' I don't know if we are far behind the US, but I will be keeping my eye open (both eyes, as often as I can spare them) for this gem.

Shireling - Go You - hoping to meet Elijah in the flesh!

LetYourLoveShin. Are you there? I've pm'd you a couple of times, but anyway, your 'gift' is on it's way to you.

I reckon I've ranted on for long enough, but I'll share these with you before I go.

http://www.imagemagician.com/images/blossom/Frodecide.jpg

and:

http://www.imagemagician.com/images/blossom/Frowraith.jpg

Edit:

Maeg, I just read your post.:eek: :eek: :eek: at your Mt Doom speculation scenario. Now you've got me worried! Where's that trout? Oh, I almost forgot - I'm veggie. Don't eat fish, but if I did -look out Maeg!!!:) You know I don't mean it - I've never trouted anyone in my life.

Bye.

mel headstrong

07-29-2003, 04:03 PM

spoiler discussion:
Originally posted by Maeglian
I've seen him refer to the incredible poetry as couple of times now. Suddenly I am afraid that we are going to get a Mt. Doom scene, after the Ring has been destroyed, and before the eagles come, with Sam cradling a near-unconscious and non-verbal Frodo in his arms and Telling the Audience what the Trilogy has all been about!
:eek: Maeglian, you're worse than I am with my fears about Arwen appearing at the Havens! I figured that Sean was referring to "Choices", though -- lots of Mordor was filmed on Ruapehu, IIRC, so just cause it was filmed on the volcano doesn't mean it's post-Mount-Doom.

We wonders what the poetry was, though, precious. Part of "In Western Lands"? Something moved from a completely different place in the books (like Gollum's use of the barrow-wight's poem)? Something totally original?

[/spoiler discussion]

Mel

erendis

07-29-2003, 04:46 PM

Raising money to get Elijah to come to Toronto? :confused:

Elijah doesn't need the money, duh, and I doubt Elijah can be bribed, unless you get some obscure punk rock band to play. :rolleyes: I'm sure he'll be stuck at some premiere or promo anyway.

I hope it's a good convention. I'm already signed up to go. (Unless SARS pops up again.)

Hobmom

07-29-2003, 05:06 PM

Maeg- I'm doing that Smeagol "Not listening! Not listening!" thing.
The end of ROTK is going to be PERFECT! We will weep buckets of angstful joy!

NO stinky UN/Sam speech but maybe some beautifully chosen Tolkien poetry. That might be OK and Sean did not say that Elijah was being 'unconcsious Fro' in that scene. But he could be the book-canon, nearly-dead-but-able-to-speak Frodo. That's IT! THAT'S what Sean meant. Not listening to negative ideas. ;)

I mean PJ ..who has always been conscious of fan-reaction... MUST know how WE hate the UN speech. He would NOT do that to us again.

NO! ROTK WILL be the greatest movie of the greatest trilogy of all time! I have NO doubts. ;) :D Oh ...And Elijah WILL win Best Actor at the Oscars.:D

Here's a few of my favorites from those Ex E caps.

Shadow Fro.
http://www.angelfire.com/celeb2/elijahw/PDVD_034.jpg

Boat Fro.
http://www.angelfire.com/celeb2/elijahw/PDVD_022.jpg

Hiding by tree Fro. Eye squinch.
http://www.angelfire.com/celeb2/elijahw/PDVD_084.jpg

And of course a few in between shots of the Anduin tears.
http://www.angelfire.com/celeb2/elijahw/PDVD_121.jpg
http://www.angelfire.com/celeb2/elijahw/PDVD_126.jpg

And that hobbit pluck we all love.
http://www.angelfire.com/celeb2/elijahw/PDVD_141.jpg

Well I'm supposed to be posting a bunch of stories on the Fic site but instead I am still looking at the caps. Must go and be more constructive.

Maeglian

07-29-2003, 05:08 PM

Happy birthday, Estella Rose!! :)

Blossom, lovely collages! :)

Edit: Hobmom, have mercy! So many lovely caps at once represent a health hazard! :D

Spoiler discussion to end of post......

Mel, thank you. I thought they'd just filmed the final stages on that volcano. It's a relief to know other scenes were filmed there too.
Somehow I have always figured "Choices" would have been filmed in a studio and not on site. I don't know why I've believed that.... except that it is a very intimate scene and I've imagined it'll also take place in a limited space, inbetween stone walls and crags.

Then again, there is Sean's statement about how "They" were given new lines right before filming, - and "Choices" is the one scene that really shouldn't have any lines for Frodo. :confused:

Oh no, now I'm remembering those "improvements" that were made to previous centuries' performances of "Romeo and Juliet": The play was altered so that Juliet wakes before Romeo dies, and they were allowed a tearjerking goodbye-scene before the poison worked on Romeo.
Imagine..... imagine PJ doing something similar, letting Sam find Frodo while he's still conscious, but fading, from the spider poison!?! :eek: And then, after some tragic and panicked dialogue...... Frodo apparently dies in Sam's arms.

:rolleyes:

I *must* stop speculating - even for fun. I *really* shouldn't read spoilers. I just think up these utterly strange scenarios. :o

mel headstrong

07-29-2003, 05:13 PM

I thought they used Ruapehu for anything that required bleak volcanic rock. Wasn't part of the last scene in Fellowship filmed in a parking lot on Ruapehu? In which case, it could be any place in Mordor. It could be a totally new scene written to try to condense the essence of the Mordor journey... I mean, there's so much Sam-holding-Frodo in the book in Mordor, a "cradling" scene wouldn't be out of place anywhere there. And, hey, I wouldn't complain about any additional Frodo scenes. :D

Could be after Mount Doom, though.

I hope the poetry is better than Sam's recitation in Lothlorien on the FotR EE DVD, though. I didn't think that was particularly moving. I am not a fan of badly-recited poetry. Gollum's talking to himself worked, though.

PJ crying is the best news, to me. I tend to find his humor a bit over-the-top, but when people associated with the production have said a scene made them cry, the scenes have usually been excellent.

Mel

Bridget Chubb

07-29-2003, 10:50 PM

Originally posted by Maeglian
Spoilery speculation in order to put a jinx on a Mt.Doom scene I do *not* want to see!

I've seen him refer to the incredible poetry as couple of times now. Suddenly I am afraid that we are going to get a Mt. Doom scene, after the Ring has been destroyed, and before the eagles come, with Sam cradling a near-unconscious and non-verbal Frodo in his arms and Telling the Audience what the Trilogy has all been about! ie. Sam's tearful UN Speech take II. You know, - "The children of the world have been saved! Beauty and Truth will prevail! ..... The Shire is safe....... even if we will not return there......... Ours not to reason why, ours but to do and die..... my heart will go on, even if I don't..... I am proud that we did this deed, we helped throw down the Dark Lord from his Throne of Terror so that the world is a safer place to live in.... etc."

Basically, much as am thrilled by the spoilers SA lets slip about the filming of this scene with PJ crying and all, I do *not* wish to see something like *that*. Nope. I want the book's relatively simple "End of all things / I'm glad you are with me/I won't give up yet" dialogue between Frodo and Sam. That is poetry enough for me.

No no no! Don't worry Maeg! I was at GenCon this weekend, but missed that part of the Q&A...and now I'm glad I did, because I would have started squealing and spasming uncontrollably if I'd heard it in person.:o :o

Sam's UN speech (some of which was decent, okay, you've got to admit that) was NOT poetry. I'm sure that's not what he was referring to. No, I read that and heard "Above all shadows lies the Sun, and Stars for ever dwell..."

*happy sigh*

*staring dreamily into space*

Ahem. Sorry.:o Anyway, I'm sure PJ's figured out by now what everyone thought of the UN speech:rolleyes: and won't do the same thing again. Please oh please oh please.

Edit edit edit! Look at this!:D

So now we've arrived at this sort of.. drudging moment where we're just getting the movie made, and- right before we go back up to the top of the volcano, after lunch, I get the new pages for the language. Because they were constantly rewriting the script all the time, and I look at the pages, and it's the- it's the most beautiful poetry I've ever read. And by now I've read the books three times at this point, and I don't know how but every time I read them- I read them for different reasons each time for the plot or the language or whatever- and I always go "Wait, what is this? This wasn't in here the last time I read it." But I think it had to do with different life experiences with each time I read them- but I sort of recognized this absolute poetry from the books and it's just gorgeous.

From the books. Life is beautiful.:D

End spoiler discussion

Winter's been transcribing Sean's Q&A session in the Garden - the "sacred acting experience" part is on page 92. Mostly it's about Sean (duh:rolleyes: ) but he does talk about being on the mountain with Elijah.

On movie release dates being pushed back - over in the Playgroup we've been (avidly) following news on "Master and Commander: The Far Side of the World" starring a certain adorable Took.;) It was originally scheduled for release on June 6th, but then was pushed back to November.:rolleyes: Part of Russell Crowe's Oscar-nomination strategy, no doubt.:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

So Elijah fans aren't the only ones being deprived...although I agree, boo to ESOTSM being pushed back.:mad:

erendis, Elijah was paid to appear at ComicCon, I'm sure...why would the Toronto convention be any different?:confused: Elve, I hope you do get him there!

tgshaw, I can't believe you. Besmirching Elijah's good name like that! "Video Game Boy #2," indeed! Hmph.:p :D

Happy Birthday, Estella Rose!!

Elenillor

07-30-2003, 12:12 AM

Small, barely on topic ramble about the 3-D nature of Spy Kids 3-D: Game Over:

Originally posted by tgshaw

---------Elenillor, thanks for the Spy Kids report. Can I ask a really stupid question :o ? What happens if you don't wear the 3-D glasses? Do you see two separate images that are even harder on the eyes?
*Not* a stupid question, especially for anyone who doesn't have perfect vision ;).
This is that old red/blue glasses technology we all know and hate. Without the glasses there is a double image, but I got that *with* them, too :rolleyes:. I took the glasses off briefly during some 3-D sequences, and found I had difficulty focusing, regardless. I was able to enjoy the movie, but was never really caught up in it, due to the visual weirdness. The 3-D effect really is an unnecessary gimmick: while there were some cool moments, the film would have been just fine without it.

My husband (who could never see those "magic pictures" either) resorted to wearing the glasses, but closing one eye for much of the film. I would have found this harder to do.

Like you, I have an astigmatism and am nearsighted.
Because my eyes are so dissimilar, I can't wear bifocals; instead I have to wear contact lenses which are also quite dissimilar in strength, providing me with a "distance" eye and a "closeup" eye. This means my left eye is so dominant when watching a movie screen that the colored glasses can't hope to balance the image for me.
I hope that helps...

Cool caps!:)

I have skipped over most of the RotK speculation, since I expect my Inner Purist to be upset by any number of things when I actually see the film :rolleyes: (hey; it was true with the two previous ones). I know Elijah will do his part, and I hope PJ doesn't get too weird on us...:eek:
So, for now, I merely gaze at the few photos of the lovely sets, costumes, and actors (:)) and recite my mantra:
We Will Always Have the Book...

(((Faculty)))
:)

Prim

07-30-2003, 12:42 AM

Happy Birthday estella rose!
I hope you have a really lovely day. :)

I'm avoiding spoilers, so you'll excuse me if I just wander off now. :)

Hobmom

07-30-2003, 02:57 AM

I am only listening to Bridget!

Book poetry!!! Yes!!!

ROTK will be the best of the best! It will win Best Picture!
Lij will win Best Actor!

I loved the first two movies...well, except for the UN speech. But those were two mighty fine films and Lij was incredbly wonderful.

So if PJ..the director of those two mighty fine films CRIED at the volcano scene.......whichever it may be... I know we will too.

tgshaw

07-30-2003, 07:32 AM

Even though I don't see it on the calendar, I'll assume several faculty members have another source of information :p and join in wishing a ]Happy Birthday to Estella Rose!

And I'd like to be able to say Happy Birthday to Rikka, but don't know where she's been :( .

-------------------

Like mel, I cringe when PJ says a particular scene is funny, but when he thinks one is moving I usually agree--so I'll take his crying as a good sign. I do remember two different volcanoes being used for shooting, depending on what kind of background was wanted, although I didn't remember the details about what kind of rock was involved--which, of course, mel would ;) . Thanks. :) . I also remember the "parking lot" statement because it amazed me--although it shouldn't, I guess--that the Secret Sam Smile in that scene was filmed in a different place and several weeks apart from "I'm glad you're with me."

Bridget, thanks for the GenCom report. Sounds very hopeful regarding the poetry. IMHO, Sam's recitation of his Gandalf poetry in the SE suffered a great deal from losing its context--in the book, Sam and Frodo are alone and talking about Gandalf, and the poetry is shared privately rather than being "declaimed" as it is in the movie (Book-Sam recites his troll poem that way, but not his Gandalf one). In the movie, that scenario is short-circuited by Frodo's prolonged silence, which I in no way would want to lose from the movie (and which would have had no impact whatsoever if used in the book--one place where I really do think the two media took legitimately different paths). The other option would have been to put the poem in a conversation between Frodo and Sam between the mirror scene and leaving Lothlorien, which would have been awkward, too. So, IMHO, leaving it out of the theatrical version was probably the best option, and I see the inclusion in the SE as an extra little tidbit "on the side" rather than as part of the story as a whole.

Grrr..... thought the thunderstorms were over for the day, so turned my computer back on. Here they come again. Hope to be back later--no chance to reread, so please forgive any mistakes (((Faculty))) .

Eldalieva

07-30-2003, 09:10 AM

When I hear about Sam reciting poetry, and now that I know it's book poetry, all I can think is that they may have taken Sam's song in Cirith Ungol and moved it to another scene and made it a poem instead of a song.

The thing is, the theatrical movies, at least, have not established that Sam has a poetic streak the way the book did, so it'll be interesting to see how they'll depict Sam suddenly bursting into rhyme. Like the rest of you, I feel pretty hopeful about anything that made PJ cry, while PJ's sense of humor definitely borders on slapstick, and should be discouraged at all costs!

I just hope this isn't some tantalizing thing that everyone talks about but that never makes it into the final cut! :(

ainon

07-30-2003, 09:56 AM

Happy Birthday, estella rose!

Have a great day! :)

Welcome, Elenillor! That's very handy info there about the 3D glasses. Count me in as another one with astigmatism and nearsightedness and natural double vision - only I never knew that the glasses I wore prevented me from seeing those 'magic' 3D pictures! I always felt frustrated and dumb whenever friends deposited me in front of one of those 3D thingies and demanded that I see it! I really never ever saw a darned thing! :p tg, thanks for making me feel that I'm okay after all. Well, nearsighted and astigmatised, but still okay. :D

Hobmom, lovely, lovely screepcaps! Thank you! :k And thank you, Blossom for those beautiful collages. Especially hoodedFro! I *love* hoodedFro huddled in cold snow. Btw, about MovieFrodo's line, "Look after the others, especially Sam. He will not understand." -- IMO, the line implied that Frodo knew Sam would feel hurt that Frodo had left him (Sam) behind, and wouldn't understand how Frodo could do such a thing. But your take works in a very interesting way that never occurred to me, with the irony being there in the movie, because of course Sam figures it out and runs right after him. Sam never, not once, asks Frodo go back to the group, but makes it very clear he'll never let Frodo go off alone. Never. Dear, dear Sam. :)

Welcome back from the Con, Bridget and Sheryl! Sam's UN speech is fine to me. But then I also share PJ's LOTR sense of humour so feel free to write me off as a lost cause. :D There's another Sean Astin and Dom interview: http://www.chud.com/news/july03/jul28seanmon.php3 but nothing new. Interestingly, Sean was kind of on-topic for something else the Faculty was talking about. ;)

Question: The films have been so well-received, theyll probably go down as classics on the same level as 'Star Wars'. Thats got to be kind of daunting, that the films will be remembered on the level as classics.

Sean: What do you mean by daunting?

Question: Its got to be a bit like, Oh my god, my grandchildren will remember this long after

Sean: My wife said that to me. We were watching a scene, at the end of the second film, Theres some good in this world and its worth fighting for, and my wife leaned over and said When you die, your children will always remember this. And I just said Aaahhh!!!

That's a bummer, about ESOTOM being pushed back. But the circumstances reminds of a David Fincher (director of 'Fight Club') remark from somewhere, where he expained the release date for 'Fight Club' was postponed so he'd have more time to edit if he wished - that was after the studio had seen the rough cut and was happy to give him more money for reshoots.

Last but not least, because I have no qualms ... :trouts Maeg: Sheesh. :rolleyes: :D

BLOSSOM

07-30-2003, 10:50 AM

HAPPY BIRTHDAY ESTELLA ROSE :)

And RIKKA - wherever you are, for yesterday.

And EUROPANYA who I think resides mainly in The Harem, but deserves a HAPPY BIRTHDAY message for that wonderful Comic-con report.:)

Ainon - Oh I agree with you totally that Sam would NEVER, EVER let Frodo go to Mordor alone. And yes, Film- Frodo's line DOES probably refer to the fact that Sam would be hurt knowing that Frodo had gone without him. Sam probably understands Frodo better than anyone.

whiteling

07-30-2003, 12:07 PM

A happy birthday to you, estella rose :) !

It seems to me that the combination of astigmatism and nearsightedness represents a very good foundation for becoming a sympathetic Elijah fan. I suffer from the same sight defects and will never reach 100 % sight nor with glasses neither with contacts... ah, yes, I can still hear Elijah's words clearly, when he talked about his 'bat vision'. - At least my ears show properly functioning. :rolleyes:

Concerning 3D pictures:

Originally posted by ainon

I always felt frustrated and dumb whenever friends deposited me in front of one of those 3D thingies and demanded that I see it! I really never ever saw a darned thing! :p tg, thanks for making me feel that I'm okay after all. Well, nearsighted and astigmatised, but still okay. :D

Same here! Thanks, tg! ;)

A BIG thank you, Hobmom, for your BIG amount of lovely screen caps! :) :)

Blossom, I enjoyed your collages very much, thank you :k ! I love the one with the Nazgul bend-over especially.
And I think, you are right: Sam does understand Frodo, more than anyone else. It is a understanding right from the bottom of his heart, a deeply intuitive understanding, and that is why it is so touching. I'm glad he is with him...

Greetings! :)

shilohmm

07-30-2003, 12:17 PM

Happy Birthday, Estella Rose!

Never mentioned before that I'm right fond of your name because my oldest daughter's middle name is Rose. :cool:

Maeg,
I cleaned out my PM box. :)

There's an ROTK trailer up at TORN, just in case anyone's interested. :p

Sheryl

Ariel

07-30-2003, 12:46 PM

Are you guys going to be discussing the trailer or are you in spoiler blackout?

Ariel

erendis

07-30-2003, 12:52 PM

Ariel, maybe we should go to the RotK forum for this.

I'm dl-ing right now...

Ariel

07-30-2003, 12:55 PM

I did... but no one was there either!!!

Ariel

Hobmom

07-30-2003, 01:42 PM

It's down already! New Line strikes again!

Did anybody save it ????? If anyone did could you PM me or email it to me. Please!!!:(

Narya Celebrian

07-30-2003, 01:47 PM

I've got it saved. I can e-mail it to anyone who needs it - just PM me with your e-mail address.

Hobmom

07-30-2003, 01:51 PM

Kisses Narya's hobbity feet!:k

I sent you my email. Thanks!

Ariel

07-30-2003, 02:14 PM

I have it too and may be getting the high quality download from a friend...

Stay tuned... I will put it up on the harem site if we need it.

BTW - I have the first caps from it up on the ROTK thread... if you are interested.

Ariel

Maeglian

07-30-2003, 02:25 PM

I am going ga-ga over a 1 second scene in the trailer! :o That *must* be a new record for minimum input causing maximum emotional output, or something. Do head over to the RotK thread once you've seen it, if you get the chance.

Spoilery reply to Bridget, pre-trailer:

Sam will speak *real* poetry? From the book? (Happy sighs abound)

If that happens to be the second verse of "In western lands", starting with "though here at journey's end I lie.....", and Sean *really* pulls that off, difficult as it must be reciting poetry as dialogue, and crying, and making it all believable.... then I'll...... I'll..... I don't know *what* I'll do!

((((Bridget)))) - It was nice to see you had such a good time at the GenCon, meeting Sean and all. :)

Pearl

07-30-2003, 02:42 PM

Originally posted by mel headstrong
PJ crying is the best news, to me. I tend to find his humor a bit over-the-top, but when people associated with the production have said a scene made them cry, the scenes have usually been excellent.

Um ... Bob Shaye said that Arwen crying over Frodo made him cry. :p

Sorry, that was mean of me. :(

:D

[boring rant]That scene makes ME want to slap her! Stop crying over him, you silly bint, and put him on the damn horse and get him to Rivendell! El prompto! And I will never forgive PJ for making Frodo unconscious and helpless at that point. I wanted Frodo conscious and defiant and brave even as he was swooning. Bah! :mad: Nothing else in the films irritates me like that scene. Nothing. [/boring rant]

Dear Eru in heaven, Hobmom ... those FOTR screencaps! *Goes starry-eyed*

Dear Eru in heaven, Ariel ... those ROTK screencaps! *Goes starry-eyed*

Oh Lij ... you little Renaissance angel, you.

mel headstrong

07-30-2003, 03:22 PM

Originally posted by Pearl
Um ... Bob Shaye said that Arwen crying over Frodo made him cry. :p
:eek: :eek: :eek: I hadn't heard that. (I still have a commentary and a half to watch on the FotR EE.)

Fortunately, the odds of Arwen appearing in Mordor are so low that even a hopeless pessimist like me isn't worried about it happening. Though the tears scene fits an unfortunate pattern of not-great scenes added late in the editing because something was missing (in the Ford scene, somebody on one of the commentaries said it was added because they realized they had this great chase scene, but had lost sight of what was at stake -- Frodo! But imo, the tears didn't do what they wanted them to...).

And to be on topic, I think Elijah could have done an excellent job acting resistance but being near death at the same time...

On the other hand, my personal favorite scene in either movie, Frodo on the lake shore, just before the boat scene, was a late addition too.

Mel

Maeglian

07-30-2003, 04:53 PM

I think Elijah could have done an excellent job acting resistance but being near death at the same time...
Oh, I very much agree! He *so* could have, even if Frodo was taken to the ford by Arwen. The blubbering Arwen scene is one of my least favourite in FotR, too. It just isn't logical. *And* it isn't emotional....just annoying. Arwen doesn't even *know* Frodo, - and the Ring is safe for now, even if he dies. Why is she sitting there, offering up the movie!grace given her just like that? Ride on, lady! I know they did it so the audience attention should revert to Frodo, but still.......

I do think Frodo on the lakeshore is my absolute favourite scene too. It was when I heard in the directors' commentary that that one came late, replacing a scene with Frodo fighting off uruk-hai, that I was prepared to forgive PJ anything. Well, almost anything. Oh, well, quite a lot. The riverbank scene is so *perfect*!!

All of it just goes to show that if last-minute additional crying scenes for more emotional impact need to be added, it *has* to be Frodo crying. Arwen crying is just blubbering. Frodo crying shows you just what it looks like when the angels weep.

Oh, yes, I admit it, I am a bit woozy from that one little trailer scene. And the Pippin ones. Enjoying the wooziness mightily, though. And when I get so up-in-arms over one measly small scene, what impact won't the actual film have? :cool:

I think I've set a new posting record today. I'll shut up now. :o

mel headstrong

07-30-2003, 06:35 PM

Originally posted by Maeglian
All of it just goes to show that if last-minute additional crying scenes for more emotional impact need to be added, it *has* to be Frodo crying. Arwen crying is just blubbering. Frodo crying shows you just what it looks like when the angels weep.
Agreed about Frodo crying, but Sam does some darn excellent crying as well -- in fact, all the crying after Gandalf's fall is excellent. In fact, Arwen's pretty much the only character whose crying annoys me.

Mel

estella rose

07-30-2003, 06:57 PM

I am completely overwhelmed. You remembered my birthday! Thank you you dont know how much I appreciate that!
{{{{Faculty}}}}}
:k :k :k

Regarding poetry, Im torn between the devil and his deep blue eyes on this. Because even Sams UN speech was based on a number of BookSams most lyrical moments. It was the conjunction of events which somehow resulted in its overall ... effect.

(Hobmom, your screen caps are almost lethal. Ive started keeping my asthma puffer at the ready when I visit the Faculty.)

Sheryl a trailer? theres a trailer?

*sound of running footsteps, a door slams somewhere in the distance*

:)

shilohmm

07-30-2003, 09:02 PM

The trailer isn't at TORN anymore, but you should be able to track a copy down if you check out the ROTK spoiler thread in the Trilogy/ROTK forum.

Sheryl

Gladys

07-30-2003, 10:50 PM

Just a comment on Sean's statement:
I was cradling Elijah in my arms and saying this incredible poetry I wonder if it's literal poetry -- as people here have mostly been assuming -- or whether he's just speaking figuratively? It could be "poetic language" without being an actual poem.

Maeglian

07-31-2003, 02:15 AM

I initially thought it would *not* be literal poetry, but some very poetic and emotional sentences, hence my thoughts about something akin to the UN speech. But with the most recent quote from SA about it, posted here, I'm more uncertain. It could be either.

If we get to see it at all! :D

After the most recent trailer flurry, I've just come back to earth. :o And it is very easy to remember how much of the TTT trailers never made it into the films. *coughangelicOsgiliathshotcough*

It's great fun to speculate, anyway.

ainon

07-31-2003, 04:54 AM

Hmm. I missed the whole trailer flurry. :rolleyes:

Gladys, I thought Sean was referring to poetic language too (or at least something very moving - like how some of the best lines in 'Shawshank Redemption' aren't poetry but they sure feel like poetry ;) ) and actually I was really curious why everyone talked about literal poetry, but since I can't remember everything from the books I decided to keep my mouth shut. :p :D

Bridget Chubb

07-31-2003, 08:15 PM

Gladys, I was going to suggest the same thing - and if it's not literal poetry, then we have even more lines from the book to speculate about!:p :D

Anyway, on topic (for once): I work at a library, and my branch has a new movie in the juvenile video collection this month. You know, the one we don't say the name of.:eek: I'm not sure if I should a) check it out and brave the horrors (since, after all, it is free) or b) avoid physical contact with it at all costs.:p ;)

BunnieBugs

07-31-2003, 08:50 PM

Originally posted by Bridget Chubb
Anyway, on topic (for once): I work at a library, and my branch has a new movie in the juvenile video collection this month. You know, the one we don't say the name of.:eek: I'm not sure if I should a) check it out and brave the horrors (since, after all, it is free) or b) avoid physical contact with it at all costs.:p ;)

Hi, Bridget and everyone! :) I was just dropping by in lurking mode, but I had to respond to this because: I just bought The Film That Shall Not Be Named at Half.com fer cheap. Heh. I've only watched the first 15 minutes so far, but when I get a chance to view the whole thing, I fully intend to enjoy every minute. :D

/fangirl :rolleyes: ;)

And now I must vanish again. *poof*

tgshaw

08-01-2003, 08:23 AM

Originally posted by Bridget Chubb
...b) avoid physical contact with it at all costs.:p ;)
Bridget, I don't think The Animated Movie that Shall Not Be Named is dangerous to anyone who's been previously innoculated with several good EJW movies. What bothers me about it is thinking of impressionable little children seeing it and connecting it with Elijah forever in their minds. I mean, imagine (or don't :eek: ) if the first EJW movie you'd seen was Ash Wednesday! Happy Feet may end up serving an important purpose :) -- hopefully it will give the kiddies something better to imprint on ;) .

BunnieBugs

08-01-2003, 09:49 AM

Well, that'll teach me to post when I'm not really keeping up with what's going on! :rolleyes: Can you believe I actually had managed to block out of my memory the fact that Elijah made that particular Animated Film That Shall Not Be Made, and I actually though you were talking about something else. Knowing that I is not the most revered of his films, I thought Bridget was talking about Flipper! :p

Well, at least I feel a bit better now that I've been reminded that it really isn't the very worst film he ever made that I just spent my money on. ;)

On a less embarrassing note, I saw SpyKids 3-D a couple of days ago, and thought Elijah was spectacular for all 126 seconds that he was onscreen. :cool: And of course, I'm not biased in the least. :p ;) Honestly, though? He looked great and I thought he did a brilliant job with what he was given. How fabulous that Robert Rodriguez wrote that part for him!

Which reminds me... Isn't Rodriguez the one who said that he'd like to see Elijah play 'pure evil'? I hope this small role might be an indication that he's keeping Elijah in the back of his mind and may eventually write a whole film around him. I wonder who I'd have to bribe to make it so... :D

Brunhild

08-01-2003, 10:52 AM

Originally posted by BunnieBugs
Isn't Rodriguez the one who said that he'd like to see Elijah play 'pure evil'?
Did he say that too? IIRC, you posted that EJW interview from the i-D magazine:
Interviewer: I'd like to see you play pure evil.
EJW: I would, too.

IMHO, 'pure evil' is not such a great idea but some people apparently think otherwise. For instance, I know a German lady who calls EJW "Froschie" (pronounced 'Froh-shee' and meaning 'little frog' :p) and believes that he was born to play the very evil Jean-Baptiste Grenouille ('grenouille' is French for 'frog') from Susskind's Perfume.

BunnieBugs

08-01-2003, 11:04 AM

Originally posted by Brunhild
Did he say that too? IIRC, you posted that EJW interview from the i-D magazine:
Interviewer: I'd like to see you play pure evil.
EJW: I would, too.

Yes, you're right. For some reason, I had attributed that quote to Rodriguez, perhaps confusing it with something else that he said about Elijah. Or, perhaps, just wishful thinking on my part.;)

Hobmom

08-01-2003, 02:03 PM

Just reminding the US Faculty members that 'All I Want' is on Starz tonight at 8 PM.

tgshaw

08-01-2003, 05:49 PM

Originally posted by BunnieBugs
...Can you believe I actually had managed to block out of my memory the fact that Elijah made that particular Animated Film That Shall Not Be Made...
BB, just consider that an example of how well your mind can block out pain... sorry we stirred up the memory again. :( ;)

Well, at least I feel a bit better now that I've been reminded that it really isn't the very worst film he ever made that I just spent my money on.
Oh, heavens, no. Compared to that movie, Flipper is a work of cinematic art, as is North, and even Paradise! (IMHO, of course.) At the risk of being trouted by an Ed Burns stalker :p , I'll even put Ash Wednesday in that category--we're talking in comparison to, remember. Maybe if Bridget takes the plunge, she can give us her opinion on which movie is more annoying: AW or TT&T :eek:

And don't feel bad, BB... I not only bought the animated thing--on VHS--I pre-ordered it! I didn't expect it to be great, but it was worse than I'd expected. All in the name of research, y'know, so I can't consider it a waste. :rolleyes:

And although I got my VHS copy of Flipper a couple of years ago from Half.com, I, um... just ordered it... uh... on VCD from yes-asia.com. So I could screencap it... :rolleyes: Yeah, I know, pretty sad... :( Where's that SA meeting again?

Speaking of screencaps: My two sisters (twins, 10 years older than me) have come for their almost-annual visit from Arizona. They've known about my Tolkien fixation for years, and are starting to get used to my interest in Elijah.

Their visits are a bit complicated, but they fly into Omaha, rent a car and go to my mom's for a week, then drive back to Omaha, spend a couple of days with me and then fly home.

Last night was their "just passing through" stop, and we had a chance to talk for a couple of hours. They're vaguely computer literate, and were interested in hearing about some of the computer stuff I do that they don't know anything about (building websites, etc.). I brought up screencaps, and explained what they were, and the question was... are you ready for this...? :eek: :rolleyes: But what would you ever do with them? :D :D We'll have to have some "show and tell" next weekend, when they'll be in town long enough to come to my apartment.

On a less embarrassing note, I saw SpyKids 3-D a couple of days ago, and thought Elijah was spectacular for all 126 seconds that he was onscreen. And of course, I'm not biased in the least. Honestly, though? He looked great and I thought he did a brilliant job with what he was given. How fabulous that Robert Rodriguez wrote that part for him!
Thanks for that report. It certainly makes the next research project sound more enjoyable :) !

---And everyone who gets Starz, enjoy the movie tonight! :)

Bridget Chubb

08-01-2003, 06:56 PM

tgshawshank, you will be happy to hear that my library's copy of The Movie That Shall Not Be Named is not on the shelves.:D We have far too many juvie (technical library term - means "juvenile":p ) videos to fit them all on their designated shelf space, so there's always a bunch of "overflow" videos back behind the desk. And that's where I made sure TT&T ended up.:p So unless some poor kid actually requests it, the children visiting my library will be spared at least for a while.;)

Anyway, I've still got "Flipper" and "Try 17" to watch, so I'm not quite ready to sink to TT&T level to fulfil my Elijah addiction. Yet.;) :D

Hi, Bunnie!:)

tgshaw, have fun introducing your sisters to the joys of screencapping - any chance of converting them and getting two more Faculty and Screecaps Anonymous members?:D

Mariole

08-01-2003, 09:52 PM

from tgshaw
I brought up screencaps, and explained what they were, and the question was... are you ready for this...? But what would you ever do with them?
And the question here at the Faculty is, what would we ever do without them? :p Frame-by-frame analysis, Froshadows, microexpressions, nostril acting (do your sisters know about that, tg? :D ) -- cloak action! Oh, the happy hours I've spent! Never a dull frame.

Here's how bad I am. I'm actually waiting with great anticipation the posting of any Flipper caps, just so I can see if I can dig up any comparison caps to the Frodo movies. I am a sick, sick woman (but happy! :) ) Yet you have reinforced once again the desire to pass over the Movie that Shall Not be Named. We don't have such a clever librarian as Bridget in our library, so TMTSNBN is lurking out on the shelf, in plain sight, ready to corrupt the mind of some poor child. Perhaps I should say something. But then again, don't they say that what doesn't kill us makes us stronger?

Hooray for the airing of Try 17, all you people with cable. I shall be lurking in case of any discussion. Cheers!

Hobmom

08-01-2003, 10:14 PM

I saw "All I Want"!!!! Peeling self up off of floor.......

I thought he was wonderful. I know I'm prejudiced but if I hadn't liked the movie or thought he wasn't acting up to his potential I would notice it and say so.

Try Seventeen Spoilers here to end... if we're still doing that....

I thought it was an entirely charming film and he was excellant. I think what some have seen as his being 'flat' at times is really his way of portraying Jones' innocency and sense of being rather lost at the start of the film. He's not flat but just cautiously feeling his way till Jones finds his feet. And once he does Jones really comes alive and we see who he is and what's important to him in life. Real people and relationships that mean something and not just fantasy, which he has relied on in the past or casual sex, in spite of his fantasies. The fantasies were not as explicit as I feared and really reflections of Jones' innocence and normal late teenage longings.

I really think his performance is one of his most nuanced and charming and I did feel he can do comedy quite well. He made my Aged Mom and myself laugh in all the right places. She said (being a closet Senior Lij fan..who pretends to prefer Gandalf) "Why wasn't this released in the theaters?! This really is Elijah's film." Meaning he dominates it with his refreshing presence all the way through.

I think it shows off his growing maturity as an actor and his intelligence just glows through every scene. This is a 'veteran' actor who is fortunately just going into his prime and I now have even more confidence that he has the most extraordinary potential of any of the so-called other actors out there today and deserves to be given a shot at some truly great and innovative scripts.

Hollywood execs-- Are you listening?:rolleyes: They haven't been so far...let's hope something wakes them up to the extraordinary talent they have in the person of wonderful Elijah Jordan Wood.

They've got their next Jimmy Stewart/Henry Fonda/Gregory Peck sitting right there in front of them! In fact some of Elijah's expressions and way of delivering his lines reminded me of Mr. Peck...who we know is one of Lij's role models.

So obviously I loved Try Seventeen. After some of the comments others have made I was prepared for a let down. Happily that never happened and I will be watching it again in a little while on tape so I can survey it alone and pay even more attention to all those yummy...erm..... skillfully acted scenes. ;)

And I CANNOT wait for my pre-ordered DVD to cap this thing to pieces!!!! So many gorgeous shots of that incredibly expressive face! I must get them ALL!!!!

Edit- Just watched it again. My stars and rockets! How my sweet boy has grown and matured. Just comparing the subtlety of his acting between T17 and Bumblebee shows how much he has grown. All his experience playing Frodo over all this time has taught him so much and it shows in his acting.

Have we and... I guess..PJ.....stumbled across the greatest actor of this century? OK. It's late and I've watched him twice in a row
but there is something SO special about Elijah and his talent that just gets better and better with each film.

To risk waxing poetic....
I begin to feel like those who first discovered Olivier.

I know...that wasn't a poem. But Elijah makes me feel like everything is a poem. And that's what great actors should do.

ROTK may just well kill us all due to what Elijah does with Frodo! What a way to go!

peaceweaver

08-02-2003, 11:22 AM

Well, folks, I am still thinking about Try 17, but on the whole I was *very* impressed. There were some weaknesses in the script, but the acting was good all the way around: I thought Franka did a great job. And what impressed me most about Elijahs performance was its consistency and wholeness: what I mean is that the whole package of who Jones was--his body language, manner of speaking, even the eyebrow actionwas true to the character. EW should definitely do more comedy: there were some pratfalls, some moments that were just uproarious. I got to see the film with a group of Haremites :k: and that was a blast! We laughed so hard we were in danger of disturbing the neighbors!

Must see it again to better evaluate the whole product. I am looking forward to the experience.

And just to satisfy curiosity: behold the Video Guy!

Maeglian

08-02-2003, 01:34 PM

Nice picture, Peaceweaver. :)

I've not had the opportunity to re-watch Try 17, but with the glowing reviews popping up around here, I'd better get to do that soon. I liked the film well enough, but thought Elijah's acting was too understated and bland, though - obviously I missed something.

What I *have* managed to do, is watch the infamous animated movie-thingie. It was even worse than expected. It pained me to hear Elijah's voice in the midst of those ugly characters, sloppy animation, uninspired pathetic embarassing story and general awfulness all around. Good thing HC Andersen is not around to see how his Thumbelina is used in this day and age. I hope EJW will never see fit to stoop to that kind of job again.

In other news, Ash Wednesday is now available as a DVD in the Scandinavian market, with director's commentary and subtitling in all Scandinavian languages, and full DVD price too; - I noticed it in the racks of the local supermarket today. I was morbidly curious about the subtitling, which of course necessitates a certain pruning of the dialogue. I bet the Sullivan brothers' language sound pretty decent in Scandinavian subtitles compared to the original, since all those superfluous four-letter words probably would be the first to go. :rolleyes: The film may actually be alot more tolerable if you don't understand English! :D

From Brunhild
For instance, I know a German lady who calls EJW "Froschie" and believes that he was born to play the very evil Jean-Baptiste Grenouille ('grenouille' is French for 'frog') from Susskind's Perfume. I do assume your friend thinks he looks like a frog the same way the enchanted fairly tale frog prince did, - that would be *after* he'd been transformed back to his original princely looks? :p

Anyway, it pains me to have to agree with your friend about the Grenouille possibility. Much as I detested the character and disliked Susskind's "Perfume" for the subject matter, I do really think EJW could pull that one off; - the role would after all require someone who could communicate mostly non-verbally, just through face and body language, the intensity and mental impact of the strong smells and fragrances and odeurs surrounding him at all times.

Hobmom

08-02-2003, 01:45 PM

Still in love with Lij as Jones.

I really was much more impressed with his acting than I ever expected to be. He really has honed his craft and just gets better and better. I could clearly see Jones growth as the story moved along and Elijah just seems to come up with more and more of those micro-expressions to get little subtleties of feeling across without a word.

I thought, maybe, I was gushing too much in my first review above but... NAH! I wasn't. He IS the next Olivier!

tgshaw

08-02-2003, 04:49 PM

peaceweaver--that picture! LOL! Shades of TRON :D ! Okay, now I'm actually looking forward to seeing this. I can hear the ticket seller: "Hmmm... middle-aged woman with no rugrats in tow seeing Spy Kids--Elijah Wood fan, right?" :p

---------

{{{Maeg}}} What a trooper! Here, sit down and have some tea... or, better yet, watch FotR ;) .

We seem to have similar thinking. Here's a bit from my website comments on the animated whatever-it-is:

Let's just say I'm now even more grateful to every person and any higher power that had anything to do with Elijah getting cast in LotR, for the simple reason that he'll never have to make another movie like this as long as he lives! And he'd better not!

----------

Hobmom and peaceweaver--so glad you liked Try 17! :) I was beginning to think I'd watched the wrong movie... But I think it's partly a matter of taste in films. I like subdued, low-key acting (and even storyline)--when it fits. And IMHO in this movie the acting fits. And the nuances are certainly there--one of my favorites is Jones watching the landlady and listening to her sing. His face is perfect--a little wistful, perhaps, and gains a bit of fondness as he listens to her.

Reading the descriptions of it make me want to watch it again, but the mail has brought another obligation that I'd better take care of first ;) ...

http://www.imagemagician.com/images/tgshaw/off topic/capA0805.jpg

---------In my recent buying spree I also gave in and bought a used copy of Paradise. Paid a lot more for it than if I'd bought it back in pre-FotR days when I was collecting the rest of my EJW tapes and getting them for 75 cents (yes, really--for North, in perfect condition) to about 5 dollars. When I bought Paradise two weeks ago, besides a couple of "regular" used copies, the site also listed a "collector's" copy-- for $95 :eek: !! Nothing special about it that I could see, except that it was still factory-wrapped (but so was my used copy); the seller must just understand the market. Wish some studio execs would take the hint... :rolleyes: [No screencaps from me on that one, though--the only format I've ever seen it in is VHS.]