Viola, yes, it was me asking about Starburst. I can't remember which Issue number, or whose face is on the cover, but at the upper corner the cover boasts about the third part the mag's coverage on TTT, featuring Gollum. Thank you! :k

If you haven't seen 'Adventures of Huck Finn' yet, then I'd recommend starting with that one. Everything else is worth the rental too. Just stay clear away from 'Black & White' and the animated movie that shall not be named. :p


Tathar - 'The War' is pretty clean, language-wise. They don't seem to be sayin' nothin' worse than some ding-donging weirdness that I ain't ever heard before, nor read in Stephen King's stuff, but then King does Maine English and his characters go around saying 'ayuh'. Stephen King was my best guide to American culture. I'll just say that and leave it at that. ;) :D In 'The Good Son' Macauly Culkin uses the F-word once, and spends a lot of time looking slinty-eyed at people he dislikes. Can't remember if EW used any swear words in 'Good Son'. In 'The Ice Storm' EW played someone who barely spoke, but he does almost get to do something with a girl, and the other characters in the film get to doing such stuff and there's bad language too.

Froshadowings in 'The War' include the voice-thingy that reminds us of Frodo's "But it cannot stay in the Shire", and the way he snaps and gets angry at his sister, kinda like Frodo's "What do you know about it?" with Sam. I think there're more? Give us more, Sheryl. :) And now that you mention it, Elda, his looks there remind me of River Phoenix too.

I have a fondness for Morgan Freeman myself; I knew who Elijah Wood was but was by no means a fan in 1997, so I watched DI in the theatres only because Freeman was playing a President. After 'Shawshank Redemption' I basically committed myself to watching anything Morgan Freeman was in, but then that scifi thingy he did with Keanu Reeves came out and I had to draw the line. :p I never bothered to compare DI with 'Armageddon' - Bruce Willis playig action hero kinda ensured I would never want to watch the latter.


tg, Elda and Gladys - thank you. Lazy bum that I am, I never bothered to look up the words 'bohemian' or 'beatnik' despite the fact I never knew what either word meant. ;)

Originally posted by tgshaw
Out of curiosity, do you remember which one you saw the first half-hour of? When I was doing a search for his stuff the other day, the movie that seemed to get the most mention and best reviews was The Affair, in which he plays an American GI stationed in England during WWII who has an affair with a married English woman. It's said to have a "shocking" ending when the husband finds out about them.

I happened across that movie while channel surfing so I can't remember, but I hope that wasn't it, because then I missed a good show! There *was* another woman whom he was getting involved with, so maybe. Thanks, erendis, for the Courtney B Vance list. Yup, he was cool as Jonesy in 'The Hunt for Red October' -- sonar guy, not sub pilot, sorry. I liked Jonesy in the book too, and actually I prefer Alec Baldwin as Jack Ryan. Harrison Ford's okay because there was sufficient angst and action in typical Harrison Ford-ish fashion, plus a lean, mean Sean Bean was in 'Patriot Games'. But Ben Affleck as Jack Ryan ... nah. Even if Morgan Freeman was his co-star.

To get back to being mildly off-topic about CB Vance but mildly on-topic about something that might have involved EW: what's that 'Born to Trouble: Adventures of Huckleberry Finn' (2000) narrating thing?



naiad -- all things considered, EW seems to be a pretty balanced young adult who knows the realities of his career and will hopefully have terrific things to look forward to. We'll just have to trust that he's got a fine head on his shoulders and good friends and family around him. :)

Hello Colleagues! What a chatty group we are! So good to see everyone here! All it takes is a new picture or two! :p

Speaking of pictures, I just love the pic of Frodo as Gandalf, but I have one question: is EW wearing IM's prosthetic nose there, as well as his other gear? What a hoot that image is.

I bow to Elda's and Gladys' knowledge regarding beatniks and bohemians. I'm too young to know any real beatniks, but I read "On the road" as a young person; Kerouac put his stamp on more than one generation. (Isn't there a biopic about him?) as for Bohemian, yes, that is a term that goes back at least to the nineteenth century. Artists, poets, the intellectual left of Paris in the late nineteenth century were said to live a "bohemian" life, like Ridolpho and Mimi in the opera La Boheme. I hadn't connected the term with the geographic area of Bohemia, Gladys, so thank you for that insight. :cool:

Hmmm, why do I want to go find a copy of Deep Impact now?

Yeah, but at what cost to himself I wonder. Did he take up smoking, swearing, shear his beautiful hair, hide his beautiful eyes behind specs/shades, fuzz his ivory skin, and travel some horrific RP fanfic road to escape being cubby-holed as the new Shirley Temple?

Have to agree with you, naiad -- though he is head and shoulders above most Hollywood actors. On the A & E board, there's a whole thread devoted to praying for him; he was raised a Christian, so we can all hope that his own common sense and his roots will kick in soon. :)

Thanks for the info on the War, ainon. :D

{Faculty}

Originally posted by naiad
Did he take up smoking, swearing, shear his beautiful hair, hide his beautiful eyes behind specs/shades, fuzz his ivory skin, and travel some horrific RP fanfic road to escape being cubby-holed as the new Shirley Temple?

I don't quite know what horrific RP fanfic road you see him on, but all of these other activities seem pretty darn normal to me (whatever you may personally think of smoking, it isn't exactly crack cocaine ;) ) He both smoked and swore before LotR - shaving his head is, IMHO, hardly cause for alarm (I work with numerous young men who do it regularly); he wears contacts, so seeing him in glasses is more than likely just an alternate way of being able to see clearly; and there are literally millions of young men in their 20's experimenting with what they look like with facial hair. None of these set off alarm bells for me in terms of his state of mind - in fact, they all seem to me to be reassuring examples of getting on with normal life, rather than trying to fit some stereotype of Hollywood's beautiful young men.

Re: The Good Son. I love EW's acting in this movie, and have been yearning for a DVD copy for months. (I've whined about it here before. :rolleyes: ) I think acting opposite McAulky just highlighted HOW talented he is. If I wasn't so busy in RL, I'd start a lively discussion of it - but it will probably be late May / June before I really have to the time to contribute! But don't let that stop the rest of you!

Gee, I didn't mean to be contrary :( , but when I reread this post it seems like everything I say has something negative about it. :confused:

Originally posted by erendis
Does anyone else get the feeling that the sixties generation thinks that they're the only generation out there and that we're supposed to automatically know everything about it and get nostalgic about it like they do?
You mean we're NOT? :eek: Yeah, I know, just the biggest :rolleyes: , thanks to the sudden release of all that pent-up baby making at the end of WWII. My older sisters were at the beginning of the bulge and myself and my younger brother brought up the rear, with an age spread of 12 years, so I'm quite imbued with the culture (and, yes, my dad was in WWII--how 'bout that ;) ). Don't worry, we'll get our comeuppance when we can't retire because there aren't enough workers to pay into the Social Security fund.

Out of sheer laziness and lack of time, instead of EJW movie recommendations, I'll just put the link to my Wood Movies (http://www.members.tripod.com/afewwords_tgs/id62.htm) page that now has comments on 22 (can you believe it?--well, I've seen only 20 of them) EJW movies and let anyone decide for themselves. :)

And, I agree that most of the things Elijah's doing aren't unusual for 22 year olds--and aren't even negative except for the smoking and the--public, at least--swearing (neither of which are new, as was pointed out). Even in our smallish city, there was a full page article in the paper a couple of weeks ago about the "modern crop," which is what you're supposed to call the buzz cut now, I guess. It's quite in style, so there's nothing odd at all about Elijah having the cut. Just about everybody tries the face fuzz. And, yes he does wear corrective contacts/eyeglasses (and I hope he wears shades when outside, with those light-blue eyes--he's a prime candidate for early cataracts if he doesn't protect them). He's also a music geek who seems to actually think about the music he listens to. He seems to choose good people to spend time with, and I've seen no evidence of his being influenced by peer pressure (well, except for those clove cigarettes...).

[Now I have to ask for a translation of what I assume is another generation's jargon--what in the world is an "RP fanfic road" and why does Elijah seem to be on one??]

I'm not quite sure what the problem is with the beautiful/geeky mix--that assumes that geeks can't be beautiful :confused: ... I could post a couple of those Bumblebee pics again for evidence that he can look pretty good without the wig, but there's probably a lot more in Hobmom's thread ;) . I know I'm an old sentimental honorary aunt, but as long as the kid's having fun and being himself, IMHO he's extremely handsome and completely adorable -- and he can wear his hair and dress however he wants to :) (see, that's one of the great things about being an aunt--it's like being a grandparent in that you don't have to actually raise them ;) ).

Along the same line, Tathar--One of the things I most admire about Elijah is that he has common sense (in fact, he's calmly carried adult responsibilities on his shoulders for most of his life), and I think that just becomes more obvious with every new thing I learn about him. IMHO, there's no need to wait for it to "kick in." My prayers (and, yes, as an old sentimental honorary aunt, I do pray for him) are that he can stay as level-headed and other-centered (as opposed to self-centered) as he's been this far. If he can do that, I think increasing maturity will take care of most everything else.

--------------
Well, I guess the following isn't "contrary"--just nuts :p .

I'd assume that honorary aunts are also entitled to keep their eyes open for "suitable" partners :) ? I was listening to Michelle Kwan being interviewed last night at her 10th time of competing in the World Championships (she won it for, I believe, the 5th time), and was struck by how similar her outlook is to Elijah's. (I guess I shouldn't have been surprised, because I've always liked Michelle for most of the same reasons I like Elijah). When it comes to their "craft," whether acting or figure skating, they both say the most important thing is to be the best they can be, rather than beating anyone else.

That's probably even harder in sports, where winning is so emphasized--just as Elijah gets asked certain questions over and over, you can be sure that whenever Michelle is interviewed she'll be asked "how she feels" about not winning an Olympic gold medal (the only thing in figure skating that she hasn't won). She puts her reply into those same terms--that she loves what she's doing, tries to be the best she can be, and hopes her presence has/will make the sport better--if she wins, that's nice, but it's not the most important thing.

Her attitude was arrived at with more pain than Elijah's, I think, as she had to go through a difficult couple of years (very publicly, of course) to get there. But, then, she's been in the world spotlight since she was 12--who doesn't have to struggle with things like that between 12 and 22? If Elijah went through something similar, he was able to do it a bit more privately (although he probably wouldn't be able to now).

Anyway, yes, they're both 22. They've both been in their "career" since they were children (Michelle was in her first world championship competition when she was 12 or 13, so she was certainly known within the sport for some years before that). They both appreciate and have close ties to their families. They both have a good sense of humor, including being able to laugh at themselves, and are less self-conscious and self-centered than a lot of people in their fields. They're both intelligent and articulate.

I just think they'd be a great match. So, if anyone concerned is reading this ;) ... World's just got over, so she's probably taking a bit of time off.

----And from things Elijah has said, the fact that she's beautiful, dark-haired and somewhat "exotic" doesn't hurt, either :) . [Now, if I were a real aunt, I'd add, "And wouldn't they have beautiful children?" but since I'm only an honorary aunt, I won't :p .]

posted by BLOSSOM
I'm going to be ordering 'The Good Son' on DVD any day now.The Good Son is on DVD? I thought it's only released on VHS? :confused:
posted by Sheryl
17 minutes including credits. I suppose hubby could run it through the computer and get the seconds for you, but about 17 minutes.What about the file size?


I did some quick screencaps of the froshadowing in The Good Son that Elda and Tg mentioned:
posted by Eldalieva
Some very nice angstsy Fro-shadowing (the scene where he runs to the ice and is held back always makes me think of Frodo with Boromir after Gandalf falls) http://members.lycos.co.uk/duckycc/goodson2.jpg

posted by Tg
...also his holding the scissors (rather than a sword) at Macauley's throat, http://members.lycos.co.uk/duckycc/goodson3.jpg
posted by Tg
and, especially, his slowly and quietly following a barefoot woman wearing a long, white robe (IIRC, we even get a shot of her feet and the hem of the robe) down a flight of steps (which, again IIRC, has a 90-degree turn in it) after being awakened during the night. This one I can't really find the exact moment to capture, so I did a gif of that sequence.
http://members.lycos.co.uk/duckycc/goodson1.gif

Sorry about the poor image quality. :o


Here are the rest of the old gifs. I left out few of them because the source images I was using were rather poor (the lambas scene, the elven cloak and scenes with faramir in Ithilien from early TTT clips). If anyone still want them, let me know, I'll redo them from screener copy.



From TTT:

The Ring caressing scene
http://members.lycos.co.uk/duckycc/ttt01.gif

Memory of the old wound at Dead Marshes
http://members.lycos.co.uk/duckycc/ttt02.gif

"Frodo wouldn't have got far without Sam."
http://members.lycos.co.uk/duckycc/ttt03.gif

The Secret Sam Smile at the end of TTT
http://members.lycos.co.uk/duckycc/ttt04.gif

Waking up from nightmare at the begining of TTT
http://members.lycos.co.uk/duckycc/ttt05.gif

"You've been there before? You will lead us to the black gate." (I missed a few frames here so it looks a bit jumpy.:o I don't think I've posted this one before, have I? :confused: )
http://members.lycos.co.uk/duckycc/ttt06.gif

"Then it is forfeit. Release them."
http://members.lycos.co.uk/duckycc/ttt07.gif


From TTT trailers:

Sting on Gollum [630*270, 1.4mb]
http://members.lycos.co.uk/duckycc/TTTtrailer1.gif

The Osgiliath Fro shot that was not in the final version of the movie. http://members.lycos.co.uk/duckycc/smilies/huh.gif http://members.lycos.co.uk/duckycc/smilies/puppyeyes.gif (I wonder why, that's my absolute favorite shot of Fro. :( )[632*268, 1.6mb]
http://members.lycos.co.uk/duckycc/TTTtrailer2a.gif

Sam taking Frodo's hand at the Dead Marshes. [550*232, 1.6mb]
http://members.lycos.co.uk/duckycc/TTTtrailer2b.gif

Drawing Sting on Sam. [600*254, 1.6mb]
http://members.lycos.co.uk/duckycc/TTTtrailer2c.gif

Falling into the Marshes. [636*270, 2.6mb]
http://members.lycos.co.uk/duckycc/TTTtrailer2d.gif


other miscellaneous ones:

The Many Faces of Frodo collage
http://members.lycos.co.uk/duckycc/collageb.gif

Huck Finn Froshadowing collection
http://members.lycos.co.uk/duckycc/hf.gif

Sleeping Beauty compilation
http://members.lycos.co.uk/duckycc/sleep.gif

Recreating the Time magazine cover pose on Access Hollywood.
http://members.lycos.co.uk/duckycc/time1.gif

Part 2 of above interview where he reacts to interviewer's joke about seeing a naked Gimli.
http://members.lycos.co.uk/duckycc/time2.gif

The ones with image and file size specifications are bigger version of the ones I posted before.

Deluby - thank you! Your gifs are the best!! :)
The Osgiliath Fro shot that was not in the final version of the movie. (I wonder why, that's my absolute favorite shot of Fro. )And mine! Luckily there's your wonderful gif. I *hope* that one'll be in the EE TTT, but somehow I very much doubt it - both the mood and the colour seem different from those Ring Trance scenes we actually got from Osgiliath. :(

and;From Blossom
I'm so glad you did those for Maeglian to see. And so am I! Thank you. Aren't they the cutest ever? That guy can wear any hat and sunglasses and odd clothes and still look great. Peaceweaver, I *think* that's his own nose - looks that way to me.

ainon - I had to stare a little at that picture form the Art of the TT to figure out what it showed - and then I went: Wow!!
That *is* Frodo and Sam climbing the stairs up to CU with Minas Morgul down below, isn't it? That one suddenly made me hope for scenes that I had absolutely given up on........ but then again, they've already used their story content if not the location in TTT (Osgiliath for the Wiki leaving MM, the great tales in the Ithilien woods rather than while climbing the stairs....) However, they could well show some gruelling scary scene from the Stairs even though the content is different from the book...... And we know MM is supposed to be in RotK. OTOH, it looks more like they're climbing a rock face than a stair.

Oh, WHEN, WHEN is New Line going to dole out some meager further RotK pictures? I'm craving new pictures!!!


A belated happy 100 pages, everybody. :) I wasn't around for that, but instead had the opportunity to spend some quality :rolleyes: time in airports. Time spent waiting, then coming across and buying the Ice Storm (the novel), browsing Film magazines, even buying one, just because it hyped RotK. No new pictures, no new information, nothing new, - and yet I bought it just because it hyped RotK. :o Well anyway it mentioned the Sunshine movie too. That pleases me because the more mention that one gets, the more likely it'll actually, really be shown in the *cinema*! Which means I shall have to break one of my own strict rules and actually watch another Jim Carrey movie. And anyway, movie mags discuss other films also, which earlier on I probably wouldn't have given a second glance but now read about with interest (Master and Commander, Pirates of the Caribbean, ......) and some that I *would* have given a second glance (Ned Kelly)......


Deluby - the Good Son is on DVD in UK/Europe. I have it myself, on DVD.

Now I have to ask for a translation of what I assume is another generation's jargon--what in the world is an "RP fanfic road" and why does Elijah seem to be on one?? ..I'm not quite sure what the problem is with the beautiful/geeky mix--that assumes that geeks can't be beautiful
Tgshaw - :D (I hate using acronyms) What I meant was 'Real Person' fanfic. Some of these fics have as their subjects, real people, such as Elijah Wood. (I know, but I'm curious and check out EVERYTHING remotely related to Frolijah). In some cases, the writing is quite good and sensitive, although that doesn't really justify the genre. Most of it very alarming, specially if you happen to be EW or whoever is the subject. Otherwise, I agree there's nothing extraordinary about EW's 'look' - quite ordinary, in fact (like you, am surrounded by the like).

Re: beautiful/geeky mix - I didn't mean to imply any kind of problem with that! Was just posing a question about how much someone, such as EW, MIGHT be forced to alter their persona in order to fend of mobbing and stereotyping. I make no assumptions or judgements about the young man's choices and have no idea whether they're healthy for him or not. They're entirely his business, naturally.

naiad--It was actually Elda who made the beauty/geek statement I was referring to. I still don't know why Elijah's life actually reminds you of fanfic, but I guess it doesn't really matter since I don't read any of it, anyway. All I can say is that I trust the kid to make pretty good decisions, since he's been able to do that so far in his life. I've been on the boards here hours longer than I'd planned to be or can afford and am too tired to figure out what to say anymore... So bye for now.

tgshaw - Please! I did NOT say EW's life reminded me of a fanfic!! No one's life reminds me of one!

Originally posted by erendis
The movie is pretty slow, or maybe it seems that way because Costner speaks really slowly. Then about 2/3 of the way through, it seems the director just gave up on the rest of the cast and focused almost entirely on Elijah. Well worth it.

I think it was slow so the viewer in the theatre is thinking, "Wow, it has to have been two hours, therefore someone could die in this scene." :p It's not hopelessly slow, though. And my favorite bit is in the slow part - when Stu has to say "Please" and EW does that terrific fakey smile with it. Love it. Made hubby watch that bit again last night, he sighed and said, "I assume this means we have to get the DVD for just that little bit?"

Well, not *just* for that little bit...

Originally posted by erendis

Courtney B. Vance had the privildge of being one of the coolest characters in one of the coolest movies ever -- Jonesy (the sonar guy) in The Hunt for Red October.

Oho. We have that movie floating around, and Jonesy isn't the only good thing about it. :)

Originally posted by Gladys

Elijah was probably lucky that it didn't cross Mr Culkin's mind that Macaulay could put on a dark wig and play both of the boys. Sort of like The Patty Duke Show.

:eek: The stuff of nightmares! Actually, I liked the Patty Duke show, but Macaulay in EW's part? Nooooooo.

ainon,
I seem to remember a War Froshadowing where he's reading Faramir out - Feral Frodo or thereabouts - but now I can't remember where it was. :rolleyes:

deluby,
The Witness is 189 megabytes with perhaps a minute of that being the "credits" for "Perverse Destiny", which is the name of the compilation disc The Witness is tucked into.

naiad,
You've lost me. You said, "Was he forced to take up smoking, swearing, shear his beautiful hair, hide his beautiful eyes behind specs/shades, fuzz his ivory skin, and travel some horrific RP fanfic road in order to escape being mobbed and to escape being cubby-holed as the new Shirley Temple?" - since he does everything else in that list (er, except, what does "fuzz his ivory skin" mean?), I'd assumed you meant he was "traveling some horrific RP fanfic road" as well.

I'm not a reader of RP fanfic regarding anybody *shudder*, much less regarding EW, but I do know EW's been accused of actually doing stuff they play with in some of the fanfic. Like tgshaw, I assumed you were fretting that some of that might be true, but IMHO all that stuff is just rumor. I haven't seen anything that worries me about EW among the verified facts. He seems to have the average bad (or neutral) habits of guys his age. I hope he decides to go without the face fuzz in a bit, but I'm actually starting to like the buzz cut. :eek: :eek: :D

Sheryl

edit:

Rats! Forgot I was going to share some stuff I ran across last night. First off - I remember a discussion on EW winning this Harvard Lampoon award, but I didn't remember the picture:

http://www.news.harvard.edu/gazette/2002/01.17/28-wood.html

Next - I first saw this and thought, "Wow, the Faculty has major competition in the obsessively researching EW department," but when I got to the page it was no, not really. Scan down halfway to EW's name to see a nearly useless chart with no numbers whatsoever:

http://www.google.com/press/zeitgeist/zeitgeist-jan02.html

And finally, it seems that the Faculty and the Harem are not the only ones to make this comparison (Not Really Michaelangelo's David):

http://www.kwe1.com/Rick1/Elijah-David.jpg

I'm really not sure what I think of that. :eek: :eek: :p

Sheryl

Shilohmm – Heavens I didn’t mean for my silly little post to get so much attention and be so misunderstood! No, I did not mean that poor EW was traveling any fanfic road. My question was as generic as I could make it so didn’t matter if he actually did or didn’t do any of the things I listed. By ‘fuzzed’ I meant grew a light beard. Sorry for my clumsy post.

The statue image is amazing!!! Weirdly, I've been seeing some image like that in my mind lately, thinking how like to Hermes Elijah looks. Is the statue, in fact, an Olympian, ummm, or is it a photo manip (please excuse my ignorance)?

These might be a worthy comparison, though they're not profiles-
From Hobmom at the EJW thread (hope she doesn’t mind):

http://www.angelfire.com/celeb2/elijahw/images/intwhite01.jpg http://www.angelfire.com/celeb2/elijahw/images/Lijws.jpg

Such beauty is painful!!! Yet, looking at those pics (could hardly stop) fills me with peace, makes me want to be a good person…. I wonder… if someone could just forward these to Bu… to Sadd.. ???
I see Frodo in both those pics.
(suppose I should post this at the Harem)

My God, Sheryl, that picture!!! :eek: http://members.lycos.co.uk/duckycc/smilies/thud.gif It looks so much like Frolijah, it's a bit scary. :cool:

Sorry but I had to do a little comparison picture again. :o

http://members.lycos.co.uk/duckycc/frodavid1.jpg

http://members.lycos.co.uk/duckycc/frodavid2.jpg

http://members.lycos.co.uk/duckycc/frodavid3.jpg


Which group do you think bear the most resemblance? I personally think the third one, but the first one has the exact same angle.

Originally posted by naiad
Shilohmm – Heavens I didn’t mean for my silly little post to get so much attention and be so misunderstood!

It's the Faculty, naiad. We tend to be obsessive. ;) I dunno if it's the Faculty or just me, but I'm easily confused and like things clarified, to boot. :o

Originally posted by naiad

Is the statue, in fact, an Olympian, ummm, or is it a photo manip (please excuse my ignorance)?

Ooops, speaking of being unclear... :p :D Sorry about that, I meant to say more in my initial post and got rushed.

It's a photo manip of Michaelangelo's David. It's from a contest I ran across with lots of fun stuff, but I couldn't link directly to it because some of the entries used semi-nudes.

contest rules
This contest askes a simple question: If the renaissance took place in modern times, and the models were famous pop culture celebrities, what would the artwork have looked like?

The rules of this game are thus: You will put any modern celebrity, actor or popular culture figure as a substitute for the model of a painting or other form of artwork (i.e. Macauley Culkin in the Scream, Madonna as the Mona Lisa or the Laughing Shatner, courtesy of Redbull_(UK)).

Actually, the Macauley Culkin one worked better than I expected... We've talked in both the Faculty and the Harem about how EW looks like classic art of various kinds, and I know this statue has come up a time or two. :)

Sheryl

Naiad-Don't mind you borrowing the piccies I borrowed them from somewhere else.

It should be pointed out that Elijah had a terrible cold when those pics were taken, I believe. And yet he still manages to look just... oh you know. Even though he is still bald.:(

Oh dear!! Don't try to post them in the harem if you don't like trouts!;) I've had my fill of that fish from attempting to post Lij piccies there. Even if they Fro-shadow. Trust me. Spare yourself!!;)

Wow, deluby - you're spoiling us with those brilliant Two Towers gifs. Thanks. I'm saving them to CD this time round:rolleyes:
They are especially welcome at the moment as I checked yesterday and TTT has just gone from our local cinema.:( How many months is it until the DVD? As Maeglian said, 'The Good Son' is out on DVD in UK/Europe. I can't undersdtand why it isn't available in the US. Don't tell me you did that 'Good Son' gif from your video! You never cease to amaze me!

With all the talk of other EW films lately I thought I would try something different - for me, that is. Deluby is the absolute 'Gif Queen,' but I have been playing about with some - yes, Blossom the technically challenged one has produced some (non-Frodo)gifs!!!:eek: I'm not sure - who am I kidding, I don't know - how to link to the images so that they don't use up KD's band-width/space, so I'll try and put them up here for now. Hope it works! Any advice on linking would be gratefully received, deluby. ;)

Here goes:

From 'The Ice Storm.' Mikey's final moments. (sob)
http://www.imagemagician.com/images/blossom/Mikey.gif

From 'The Faculty. The lovely Casey's litttle jump:
http://www.imagemagician.com/images/blossom/Caseyjump.gif

The lovely Casey again, just after, 'What are YOU looking at?' (IIRC)
http://www.imagemagician.com/images/blossom/Caseysmile2.gif

Hobmom and naiad - those pics of EW are gorgeous - oh, the eyes!!!

deluby - the statue and Frolijah. I would agree with you that the third set bears the strongest resemblance. Party Fro is so heartbreakingly beautiful!

Blossom: Well done on the gifs - I just love Casey. The Faculty is definitley one of my favourite non-LotR movies.

I must also admit to loving Deep Impact. There has always been a comparisson between DI and Armageddon, but I absolutely hated Armageddon and loved DI even before I was an Elijah fan. I think some of the best scenes in the movie don't include him though, and I always end up in tears after I've watched it.

Also, am I the only one who actually likes the buzz cut. I vote for him to keep it that way!

That picture of Elijah with Gandalf's hat and sunglasses actually reminded me of Harry Potter for some reason :eek:

I still haven't gotten to seen TTT again - it's been over two months since I've seen it and I just pray that it's there for another few weeks. Fingers crossed. I was too busy this weekend watching an important rugby match. Well, as we lost, I should have gotten my priorities straight anyway!

What a treasure trove of gifs, pics, photo manips, comparisons!! Whew! Thanks, colleagues.

Being a die-hard Michelangelo fan, and despite my respect for EW, I find the Davelijah very hard to look at. Call me a purist, not in regards to LoTR, but in regards to Michelangelo. Michelangelo never made a single portrait (that survives, anyway). The whole idea of representing someone specific on earth was irrelevant to Michelangelo, who aspired to create "ideal" beings. So while it doesn't surprise me that Elwood's features have a certain ideal quality to them ;) , Michelangelo would have altered those features, made them more regular and otherwise translated them into a more perfect being. Except, looking at those profile shots, of M's David is weird; I guess I never knew he wore a mullet!!:p

By the way, tg, last I heard Michelle Kwan already has a boyfriend! He's a hockey player. Somehow, I don't think EW needs any help finding female companionship...

Latest word on Try Seventeen folks? Now videoeta.com says SEPTEMBER! I begin to despair.

I don't have time right now to read through all the posts (and definitely not enough time to let all the pics load--although they're certainly something to look forward to :) . But wanted to clear things up with naiad, as I must have misread the following paragraph from her post. I took it as saying he had done all these things, and the only question was why (partly, I suppose because he has done all of them except the last one :rolleyes: )--but from the response, I'm guessing it was meant to be rhetorical even about whether he'd done them. Am I getting it right? (My other guess is that it's meant as hyperbole, which sometimes stumps my literalmindedness.) Sorry for any misconceptions. :(
Originally posted by naiad
Yeah, but at what cost to himself I wonder. Was he forced to take up smoking, swearing, shear his beautiful hair, hide his beautiful eyes behind specs/shades, fuzz his ivory skin, and travel some horrific RP fanfic road in order to escape being mobbed and to escape being cubby-holed as the new Shirley Temple? :(

tgshaw, Re: -
it was meant to be rhetorical even about whether he'd done them. Am I getting it right? (My other guess is that it's meant as hyperbole,
Yup :D

More Frodo gifs! 'You will lead us to the Black Gate' is new. deluby and Blossom - thank you! :k :k I'm very happy to see that you're a gif-maker too, now, Blossom! Those are terrific gifs, esp of jumpy nervous Casey who prefers not to run unless he's being chased. ;) That's definitely my favourite Casey moment.

Originally posted by Maeglian
ainon - I had to stare a little at that picture form the Art of the TT to figure out what it showed - and then I went: Wow!!
That *is* Frodo and Sam climbing the stairs up to CU with Minas Morgul down below, isn't it? That one suddenly made me hope for scenes that I had absolutely given up on........ but then again, they've already used their story content if not the location in TTT (Osgiliath for the Wiki leaving MM, the great tales in the Ithilien woods rather than while climbing the stairs....) However, they could well show some gruelling scary scene from the Stairs even though the content is different from the book...... And we know MM is supposed to be in RotK. OTOH, it looks more like they're climbing a rock face than a stair.

I meant to reply to Sheryl last night but forgot. Good thing you mentioned it, Maeg. Now, Sheryl and Maeg -- look at that pic carefully. Your daughter's right, Sheryl. The stairs are right there. :) Movie Osgiliath packs the emotional moment of Frodo's TTT experience, but the stairs are a separate thing altogether in the book. I do hope that if it's in, we'll see the hobbits either climbing it, or realising that they have to climb it. Frodo's weariness as he says how he has to rest before he ventures on to those steps is something that gets me every single time. It'll definitely be something to see how EW plays it.

And I agree, Maeg. We need more new pics. Needs them!!

---------

Make of the following what you will. :p


http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/030323/235015_1.html

Harry's London is pleased to celebrate the 75th annual Academy Awards® by shodding several of Hollywood's leading men for the event's red carpet, as well as for the parties that surround this very special event.

... From his suite at the Peninsula Hotel this week, Mellon hosted a number of stylists and celebrities while also sending the loafers in black kid and black suede to fittings for ceremony and party attendees. In addition, Oscar® nominees and presenters, as well as a number of other lucky gents, received Harry's "Oscar® Survival Kit." A black leather weekender designed by Mellon, the Kit is filled with items to help any man survive the hectic week leading up to and including the Oscars® -- from flight cream and shampoo to silk socks and cologne. Leading men and stylemakers who were gifted Harry's during the week include: ... Orlando Bloom, Elijah Wood, ...


Straying back to the Oscars for a bit: I would have liked to see EW reacting to the Mickey Mouse 'ring in envelope' joke, really. His spontaneous joy (assuming there's such a thing as spontaneity in those events) would have been great to behold. I mean, remember how beautiful he was at last year's Oscars, even when he claimed he was being bored out of his mind?

---------

On the topic of geeks, here're two of the best of 'em.

http://image1ex.villagephotos.com/2001842.jpg



---------

naiad, deluby, Sheryl, thanks for all the pics. And tg, I'd also really been meaning to tell you how much I enjoyed your continuing-series avatar last week. :)

I'll sign off with this pic, from http://maggiebear.crosswinds.net.

http://maggiebear.crosswinds.net/misc94/misc935.jpg

Ainon...I recognize Lij but who's the other geek? He looks familiar but I can't place him.

Originally posted by Eagles' Eyrie
I must also admit to loving Deep Impact. There has always been a comparisson between DI and Armageddon, but I absolutely hated Armageddon and loved DI even before I was an Elijah fan. I think some of the best scenes in the movie don't include him though, and I always end up in tears after I've watched it.

I was teary eyed myself, but on first viewing I'd have to say it's pretty good for a movie but not much as an EW movie, if you see the distinction. :p

Originally posted by Eagles' Eyrie

Also, am I the only one who actually likes the buzz cut. I vote for him to keep it that way!

I'm not crazy about it but I don't actually mind it. Hubby, however, wanted me to vote on Hobmom's first choice (grow it back!). Then again, hubby had the sweetest curls at the back of his neck when we first got married - then he switched jobs and cut it, then he went into the Army and buzz cut it, and even now he won't grow it out again (it was not terribly long, but long enough for those curls). *sigh* So over the years I've learned to adapt. ;)

Originally posted by peaceweaver

Being a die-hard Michelangelo fan, and despite my respect for EW, I find the Davelijah very hard to look at.

After a night's reflection I've decided I find it interesting but disturbing. :D

Oh, and I don't think I've got a matchmaker's bone in my body, but I did see one good point in tgshaw's Michelle Kwan suggestion - I think anyone as famous as EW does better with someone who really understands the problems of fame. It can really constrict one's freedom, in ways you don't always think through to from outside. Ran across a Tolkien quote today that applies, although it's considerably understated I suspect. "Being a cult figure in one's own lifetime," he said, "is not at all pleasant." I doubt it EW is as bothered by it all as Tolkien was, but it can be a challenge to finding and keeping a mate even if the mate does not view the famous one through his fame, if you follow.

Hobmom,
Unless I'm mistaken, that's John Howe. I love to listen to his gripes about swords and armor and suchlike on the commentary track. :D

Few comments on The War - the first one is something I noticed but going through the archives I liked the way Mel put it into words:

originally posted by Mel Headstrong in April
I remember being impressed by the physical acting, partly because Stu's way of walking was so much more free than the other character's I'd seen Elijah play -- swinging arms, taking up a lot of space, etc -- so many of the other characters seemed very interally-focussed.

Yep. Not just his walking but how he moves in general is just more "open", it seems to me. Different even from Huck, who is less internal and "hunched" (not literally) than many of the characters I've seen EW play.

WARNING: The War spoilers here to end of post.

Two more War Froshadowings I picked up from the archives - ainon points out that Stu sleeping on top of the treehouse is in the same position as Frodo before Gollum attacks, and Ms. Underhill noted one I'd considered, where Stu in the watertower looks down at his father's dog tags in his hand, weeping, mourning the loss of his father and under a great deal of psychologcial stress like Frodo on the riverbank with the ring.

And ainon said, "Back to EW - there was that quote from 'The War' director Jon Avnet about how difficult Stu's role was, and how he had to 'push' EW, and how EW wanted to be pushed. (paraphrasing)" - anyone know where this interview is? I don't remember it.

I did find the discussion (or part of it) that I went looking for on how dangerous it may have been for the kids in some of the watertower shots - I'll have to watch it again but I'm pretty sure it was shot so that the water was roiling when EW was in it, but there wasn't the vortex effect. Lots of rapid cutting in there - have to check back on that. I was too involved the first time, but the second time I had some awareness of that past conversation while I watched and I think it was just well-shot, not particularly dangerous. (Of course, any time someone's in the water there's some danger!)

Sheryl

Mental note to myself: Always look at gifs at night instead of in the morning :p . I hadn't realized how much difference the light makes even when the sun isn't shining directly on the monitor! And since I wasn't rushed (well, I should hunt something up for supper and go to bed, but...) I could let everything download. :k to deluby and Blossom and those who posted pics.

----I'm here partly to apologize for the travesty I'm about to impose on KD for the next day :o . I freely confess to having a twisted and warped sense of humor, especially when it comes to thinking up something for April Fool's Day. Everyone was almost spared, because Amazon seems to have a few tricks to keep people from copying their images, but it finally worked ;) . I promise to change avatars tomorrow night :D .

------------

Originally posted by shilohmm
...Then again, hubby had the sweetest curls at the back of his neck when we first got married - then he switched jobs and cut it, then he went into the Army and buzz cut it, and even now he won't grow it out again (it was not terribly long, but long enough for those curls). *sigh* So over the years I've learned to adapt. ;)
Sheryl, I don't know if this is any consolation, but my curly-haired brother (also about the right height for a hobbit, actually ;) --movie-wise, that is) cut his hair short and even when he let it grow back, those curls seemed to be gone forever :( . So it could be that learning to adapt was the very best thing to do--you might have nagged him until he grew it back, and ended up with no curls, anyway :rolleyes: . Of course, if you mentioned this to him, maybe he'd be curious enough to grow it back... just as an experiment, you know ;) .

...Different even from Huck, who is less internal and "hunched" (not literally) than many of the characters I've seen EW play.
Kind of interesting that working on the Huck screencaps has made me notice that character is a bit hunched literally. I don't know if "hunched" is exactly the right word, but he tends to lean forward when he walks. Casey does kind of the same thing, but the two characters do it differently from each other. And as far as I can recall, none of the other characters Elijah played around that age move at all like Huck. Had he figured out by ten years old how to make each character distinct?

BTW, I can't find the post, but someone recently mentioned the girl Elijah has one scene with in Huck Finn and said she did a pretty good job... According to the director's commentary, that's the girl who had to do the scene over and over and was still completely tensed up and terrified. After one especially bad take, the director told her it was "perfect," and he just wanted to shoot it once more to be sure he had it. He said Elijah looked at him like he was crazy, but it calmed the girl down enough that she actually did a good job on the next take. Never knew a director had to be a child psychologist, too :) .

And ainon said, "Back to EW - there was that quote from 'The War' director Jon Avnet about how difficult Stu's role was, and how he had to 'push' EW, and how EW wanted to be pushed. (paraphrasing)" - anyone know where this interview is? I don't remember it.
Is it in the commentary on the DVD by any chance? (Yes, I remember someone saying that they spend most of the time talking about the tree :rolleyes: , but maybe they said something about the acting, too?) That DVD's a little way down my purchasing list yet, so I haven't heard the commentary myself.

A note on Deep Impact vs. Armageddon: The guy at badastronomy.com has nothing good to say about Armageddon--not only is the science completely wrong (he said they got one fact right: asteroids do exist :D ), but he didn't even think it was fun or enjoyable. Deep Impact has some science mistakes (and some plot holes, I'll add), but compared to Armageddon it's terribly accurate! Now, he did like the story in Deep Impact fairly well (not tremendously), but he said he could have used less of Leo :( . Oh, well, he's an astronomer, not an acting critic ;) .

Passing EW thoughts...

Best pre-LOTR movie...over-all performance.... The War. Lij is incredibly wonderful in a part that would have been difficult and complex for the most seasoned adult actor. Yet he is the one that makes that movie come alive.

DI- The first movie I watched and thought ..hey.. That kid is good. I don't care for much of the rest of the film but Elijah and Leelee's scenes are glowing. The part where Leo comes back for her and she is crying 'No....no....no..." as her parents hand over the baby to them just ripped my heart out in the theater when I saw it long before LOTR. And the one thing I always liked till 2001 was that sweet young actor in DI.

The ..dum dum de dum dum...Haircut.

For submission for your approval....

Pre-buzz-cut Lij- :D
Gorgeous ..Wanna run one's fingers through those wavy honey-colored locks.
http://www.angelfire.com/celeb2/elijahw/images/toronto73.jpg

Post buzz-cut-:rolleyes:

Gorgeous face and eyes..porcupine bristles on top.
http://www.angelfire.com/celeb2/elijahw/images/lijcor.jpg

I just love him with longer hair, I love him with shorter hair but long is best.

Just a tidbit for you all, picked up on my cyberwanderings. There is an interview with Ed Burns newly posted at Cinematic Happenings under Development (sorry, language too crude to post link). I read it very carefully to see if he had any comment on or excuse for Ash Wednesday, but all he said was that Ash Wednesday was probably the lowest budget movie he ever made. Yeah, he couldn't even afford a script!! :p

Blossom, your gifs are great! Love them! :k The Mikey one...*sniff*:(
About linking, if you don't want to use up too much of KD's bandwidth, you can just post the link instead of putting them in the bracket. :)
TTT is gone from local theater here too. :( Earlier than FOTR last year.

I was looking through my picture folder and saw this one from The War, it reminded me of Blossom's second gif.

[img]http://members.lycos.co.uk/duckycc/EWthewar03.jpg


And happy Stu for April Fool's Day. :p
http://members.lycos.co.uk/duckycc/EWthewar06.jpg

and I'm gonna change my avatar to happy fro for today too. ;)



Edit
One more pic for April Fool's Day.

http://members.lycos.co.uk/duckycc/gollumsam.jpg


:p Can't help but giggle uncontrollably. :D

That other geek is indeed John Howe. :D

Originally posted by tgshaw
----I'm here partly to apologize for the travesty I'm about to impose on KD for the next day

AAAAAARRRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!

Hmmm, but the animated he who shall not be named is actually kinda cute ... :o


Is it in the commentary on the DVD by any chance? (Yes, I remember someone saying that they spend most of the time talking about the tree :rolleyes: , but maybe they said something about the acting, too?) That DVD's a little way down my purchasing list yet, so I haven't heard the commentary myself.

Alas, there's no audio commentary, my dear tg. It does indeed deserve to be way down on a purchasing list for original DVDs. Mine is a full copy, and even then I think of it as pretty dismal for a DVD, although the pic quality is just excellent. There's a slideshow documentary thingy included as a special, which consists of pics of the tree and written commentary about how they came across it. No notes from the Director, no quips or comments about the performances, nothing.

I did note that by the time 'The War' DVD was released, EW must have been quite grown up, because 'Deep Impact' was included in his filmography. I don't think LOTR was included though. Have to check again.

The 'Deep Impact' DVD is very short on specials too. IIRC, the only extras are the movie trailers. :rolleyes: off-topic rant here: It so frustrates me when DVDs are released without specials - considering how much DVDs cost here! One original DVD I would so love to have is 'The Shawshank Redemption', but that most wonderful of movies has only a pic archive and trailers as extras for its DVD. A movie as brilliant as 'Shawshank' deserves at least a Director's Commentary - especially since the director's also the writer who so faithfully adapted the movie from Stephen King's short story.



Sheryl:

And ainon said, "Back to EW - there was that quote from 'The War' director Jon Avnet about how difficult Stu's role was, and how he had to 'push' EW, and how EW wanted to be pushed. (paraphrasing)" - anyone know where this interview is? I don't remember it.

I was paraphrasing from something that was up at his (so-called) official site, back when it was still up. On each movie page there'd be interesting quotes and stuff related to the movie. I think Elve would have compiled all those quotes at www.frodoandsam.net now. :)


Lovely pics from 'The War', deluby. Looking at that first pic deluby posted reminds me of something I'd always wanted to ask: does that look like a cut or a scar over his left eyebrow?



Hobmom, I stand by you where the hair is. :D

http://www.frodoandsam.net/film/gallery/images/elijah/elijah-116.jpg

Except maybe when there's too much! ;)

http://maggiebear.crosswinds.net/misc02/misc014.jpg

It's best when it's just nice.

http://www.frodoandsam.net/film/gallery/images/elijah/elijah-099.jpg

:)


edit deluby! That Sam & Gollum pic! ROTFLMAO! Oh, you have got to share that with the Goonies! :D

tgshaw, travesty is the word, alright! :mad: :p :D From the movie which shall not be named, I assume? And they think this artwork will *sell* the thing? :confused: :confused:

Originally posted by tgshaw
Kind of interesting that working on the Huck screencaps has made me notice that character is a bit hunched literally. I don't know if "hunched" is exactly the right word, but he tends to lean forward when he walks. Casey does kind of the same thing, but the two characters do it differently from each other.

To me, Casey is hunched in a protective way that a lot of geeky kids who get harrassed pick up. It's kind of a scared or defensive hunch. While Huck... I may get trouted for bringing this up, but... when John T. Molloy was doing his studies on the impact of clothing, he also did studies on how people held themselves.

Molloy discovered that guys "from an upper-socioeconomic background" held themselves very erect, while "Their lower-middle-class counterparts invariably have their shoulders hunched forward and their heads down, forcing them to have a rolling motion when they walk." Huck's hunch strikes me as more indicative of his lower-class status. I don't remember consciously noticing his hunch, but I know he has other moves that read "low-class" in our culture (and how people hold themselves does seem to be a cultural thing).

Huck also walked in a classically lower-class way, kind of a strut. Stu does some of that, too, although not so much - more of a mixture of class markers. But IIRC, the character in the Good Son moved more like an upper-class kid.

Originally posted by tgshaw
And as far as I can recall, none of the other characters Elijah played around that age move at all like Huck. Had he figured out by ten years old how to make each character distinct?

IMHO, yes - but it was not a conscious thing.

Originally posted by Hobmom

DI- The first movie I watched and thought ..hey.. That kid is good. I don't care for much of the rest of the film but Elijah and Leelee's scenes are glowing. The part where Leo comes back for her and she is crying 'No....no....no..." as her parents hand over the baby to them just ripped my heart out in the theater when I saw it long before LOTR.

Deep Impact spoilers here to end

I thought EW did a pretty good job, but he was playing sort of a generic character, if that makes sense. The script doesn't offer him much to get a handle on, and presumably the director didn't, either (IMHO his "dependence" on a director is directly related to the quality of the script - he does well with a poor script but a good director, but I suspect he would also do well with a good script and a poor director). Leo is a good kid, a bit of a geek, with a crush on the neighbor girl he presumably grew up with. EW does well in the scenes that depend on that aspect of the character - the one time he doesn't work right for me is the shot of him watching TV with all the guys from the truck. The camera tracks over to him as they're hearing about the failure of the rockets, IIRC, and he swallows in fear - but it's clearly "acting". His facial expression is right, but there's nothing behind it, nothing to it that makes it *Leo* doing these things. Lost track of his motivation there or something. :p

Found this in the archives:

Originally posted by tgshaw a year ago

Deep Impact: Felt kind of sorry for the character here, as it's so obvious (or am I alone here?) that he's a lot more in love with her than she is with him. I mean, this was one instance where a guy could literally say, "Marry me or die," and the girl has to think about it! Kinda hard to have very good kissing when only one party is really interested in it. (It impressed me that much more, though, when he risked his own life to go back and find her, as I think he knew by then that she didn't love him in the same way he did her--that's real love.)
3-26-2002

I agree that he's more in love with Sarah than she with him, but I think a lot of her hesitation there is to the idea of being married, not to the idea of marrying Leo, per se. In my high school, at any rate, anyone taking astronomy would be on the college track, so I don't think she really expected to marry right out of high school, let alone any earlier. Her whole world is falling apart, and Leo's offer was yet another indication that things had changed beyond recognition.

There does seem to be a subtext to the movie of getting back together with blood kin - the reporter with her dad, her dad's wife, Sarah, basically anyone who is shown having parents wants to stick with them (except Leo, and even Leo goes with his parents intially). I think Sarah's problem was immaturity rather than lack of love - her parents were her source of security, not Leo. One hopes that things got better as she grew up. :p

The War DVD has a director's commentary? :cool: Looks it up on Amazon. Hmm, all it says are "production notes" - not quite the same thing, but doesn't make much difference since I'm buying it anyhow. Need to get going on that sometime...

Sheryl

No more spoilers

edit:

originally posted by ainon
Hmmm, but the animated he who shall not be named is actually kinda cute ...

:eek:

ainon, I fear for you. ;)

I have yet to find the subtitles on our copy of Deep Impact. :confused: Didn't try very hard but looked in the usual places. And you're right, all it's got in terms of extras are two trailers.

And, hey, I like his hair in that second picture! My hubby had hair rather like that when we met, although a bit shorter. When hubby goes in for a haircut, they use this snazzy tool on him to thin his hair, because it's so thick. :eek: Would that I had this problem. :rolleyes: :D

deluby,
I second ainon's suggestion that you share that Sam pic with the Goonies. And your laughing Stu pic is particularly appropriate for April Fool's, because I'm pretty sure that shot is from when he plays a rather mean joke on the Lipnickis. :)

Sheryl

Originally posted by shilohmm
tgshaw, travesty is the word, alright! :mad: :p :D From the movie which shall not be named, I assume? And they think this artwork will *sell* the thing? :confused: :confused:

It's even worse close-up! I spared everyone some trauma by using the whole picture, including the flower and all. I can only conclude that ainon is looking at a very blurry image :confused: --that huge, square chin and long face and big ears are obvious even in the smaller picture, I think! But, it's not supposed to bear any resemblance to Elijah, thank goodness. And when I went to the Amazon page to copy the thing, I was relieved to see that they no longer have any EJW movies in the "If you enjoy this movie, you might like..." offerings. All they show are similar (if that's possible :eek: ) animated direct-to-video-because-we-know-no-one-would-pay-to-see-them-in-the-theater-but-maybe-they'll-keep-the-kids-occupied-for-an-afternoon movies. As far as I'm concerned, the less Elijah's name is connected with it, the better!

And all I can see of deluby's April Fool's contributions is the Happy Frodo avatar. Everything else is little red x's :( . So I still have hope that I'll see them, but probably not on April Fool's Day! It's very frustrating when people are laughing about something that you can't see :confused: .

I don't remember consciously noticing his hunch, but I know he has other moves that read "low-class" in our culture (and how people hold themselves does seem to be a cultural thing).

Huck also walked in a classically lower-class way, kind of a strut. Stu does some of that, too, although not so much - more of a mixture of class markers. But IIRC, the character in the Good Son moved more like an upper-class kid.
Okay, that's how I see it, too. But then I read...
IMHO, yes - but it was not a conscious thing.
...and am flummoxed again. How could he have internalized that by the time he was making Huck and The Good Son? From interviews, etc., it seems he was taking his acting more seriously by the time he did The War, so his ability to "act" class distinctions wouldn't surprise me quite so much there. The Huck director doesn't mention this aspect at all in the commentary, so I don't know if he instructed Elijah on how to walk.

One little cross-over item (from LotR to Huck) I keep forgetting to mention--IIRC, it was in the "Little Things I Liked" thread after FotR was released that someone mentioned Sam's four-button flap on the front of his breeches and how that showed his clothes weren't as "high class" as the other hobbits'. Huck's trousers have one, too (at least in the clothes he's wearing after he gets to the plantation, which I assume were hand-outs from that family). No biggee, but I kind of chuckled when I noticed it :) .


And, hey, I like his hair in that second picture! :D

Me, too :) . Another baby boomer trait perhaps? Sorry :o . Looks like Mikey hair to me, and Ice Storm is set the same year I graduated from high school, so that hair looks just fine to me :p . I'm afraid the jacket he's wearing just doesn't say "Mikey" to me, though--too :cool: methinks.

Sorry about those images not showing, I got an email from Lycos UK saying that my account was deleted and didn't give any reason at all. :confused: :mad: I have no idea why and can't find any question/complaint service department on their website either. http://members.lycos.co.uk/duckycc/smilies/mad.gif http://members.lycos.co.uk/duckycc/smilies/shrug.gif Anyhow, I just signed up for a new one and uploaded the stuff I posted back a few pages so all the recent pics should show up now except the second batch of gifs because I haven't upload those yet. If anyone still need to download them, let me know and I'll upload them again. :)

A belated :k to deluby and Blossom for those gifs!

:eek: tg, that avatar! :eek: Certainly good for April Fool's Day, though... :rolleyes:


Now, I am no doubt about to shock all Faculty members, but it must be said: I haven't seen The Faculty ( :o ), nor have I seen The Ice Storm. *gulp* :eek: I'm just about 100% sure I won't see the Ice Storm anytime soon, so I don't mind satisfying my curiosity by asking How does Mikey die??? :eek: He's the only character Elijah has ever played who dies, isn't he? I'd like to see the Faculty -- muted, maybe? :p -- but I wouldn't mind spoilery comments about it. :D


And, hey, I like his hair in that second picture!

Me, too! A cousin of mine had hair that was almost like that -- actually, he looked very much like Frodo (gasp!): big, blue eyes, dark curls...similar nose, too! :eek: -- but he chopped it all off. :( It actually looks like Lij's hair in that third picture now... not bad at all, but I think I prefer the curls. ;)

Originally posted by deluby If anyone still need to download them, let me know and I'll upload them again. :)
Narya tentatively raises her hand.

I hate to ask you, but I was really busy the last couple days and didn't manage to save them yet. (Since they were the second batch, I thought I'd have a couple of days to get to it - stupid Lycos. :( ;) )

tgshaw, it is very reassuring to see that April 1's avatar has hit the dust bin... :D

I hadn't thought specifically about the body language of 'the hunch' before - very interesting theory about it being related to social status! I'll have to watch The Good Son and Huck again just to check (though it may be June before I have time :rolleyes: ). My memory associates the hunch more with defensiveness, and moments when he's feeling vulnerable, but I haven't seen either in a couple of months and I couldn't say for sure. I was thinking particularly of the scene when he's walking to the phychiatrists office to ask for her help in The Good Son - is the hunch present there?

Tathar, I LOVE your avatar! I didn't get to see the larger version posted in the thread--in fact, most of the images posted in the past several days have just been red X's on my computer :confused:. So it's wonderful to see Frolijah in sunglasses and Gandalf's hat at last! :) :) :)

RL has been a bear lately, and I will be scarce-to-absent around here for the next three weeks due to intermittent (at best) internet access. :( It will be great to read all the new research topics the Faculty has discussed when I return. It's so nice to hang around with people who enjoy their work. ;) :D

P.S.: Blossom, I did have the pleasure of viewing your gifs--wonderful! Although the Mikey one makes me sad. And ainon, the various Lij haircuts were great. I like the 1970's long hair, having been a 1970's teen myself.:p

Deluby, so it was a problem with your account that led to all the red X's? Anyway, this morning I can see them in all their splendor. Happy Stu makes me smile. And Gollum with Sam--that's a laugh and a half! Looks like he's going to plant a big sloppy wet kiss on Sam!:D :D :D

Originally posted by deluby
Sorry about those images not showing, I got an email from Lycos UK saying that my account was deleted and didn't give any reason at all.

Well, what a pain. But it was free, right? I get less ticked about that sort of cavalier action on a freebie - I've heard cases where paying customers were treated that badly, and that gets my ire up.

Originally posted by Tathar
How does Mikey die???

ICE STORM spoilers

He is out in the ice storm hanging out, sitting on a metal barrier, and the ice brings down a power line that touches the barrier he's sitting on. He sees it happening but doesn't have time to get out of the way - even though you want him to, he's been slicking around so badly you know it won't happen.

End Ice Storm spoilers

Originally posted by Tathar

He's the only character Elijah has ever played who dies, isn't he?

No.

:D


Originally posted by Tathar

I'd like to see the Faculty -- muted, maybe? -- but I wouldn't mind spoilery comments about it.

I hated the opening sequence but liked most of the rest. And not just because EW is in the rest. :p The opening just strikes me as cliched ick. Not that I can even remember it at the moment. :rolleyes:

Originally posted by Narya Celebrian

My memory associates the hunch more with defensiveness, and moments when he's feeling vulnerable, but I haven't seen either in a couple of months and I couldn't say for sure.

I really can't remember with the Good Son (although I do remember a defensive hunch in that I think), but when Huck's fishing with Billy and Billy's dad, he has a very lower-class stance, IIRC, including a bit of the hunch, or slouch, and I don't think he's feeling particularly vulnerable at that point. Haven't gone back to check, though. I'm gonna try to get another viewing of The War in today before we have to turn it back in.

WARNING: Crazed Theory ahead

One of the things John T. Molloy researched was "body signals", the idea that you could tell what people were thinking by how they stood. This was back when there were best-selling books saying people who crossed their arms were shutting you out and such like. But he found that (a) a lot of the connections being made between physical gestures and their meanings weren't accurate, and (b) different groups of people interpreted the same gesture differently (there was usually a split between how men and women viewed the same gesture, and men and women viewed the same gesture as meaning something different depending on whether a man or a woman was doing the act being analyzed).

His conclusion was that, "although you cannot control other people, particularly strangers, by reading their body signals, you can control the way other people will react to you if you control your own... If there is a Svengali effect, it's achieved by controlling the messages you send thereby controlling the way people react to you. Your body signals will determine whether you are believed, liked, admired, or thought competent."

He tells the story about a consultant he worked with, who nobody liked even though he did good work. Through a fluke, he and his researchers realized the reason people didn't like this guy was that "if you listened to him, what he said didn't bother you. But if you watched him while he talked, it was very disturbing. His facial expressions often didn't match what he was saying. At times he would be animated when he should be bland, and at other times he would be bland when he should be animated. It seemed obvious he didn't know what he was doing. With a grin on his face, he made a comment about having to let half a dozen people go. The look was almost satanic in context, and yet I know he worked very hard to get another commission so that those people could continue to work. Obviously, he was sending out inaccurate messages. When he meant to say one thing, he actually said another to everyone and as a result turned them off.

"He also had jerky, unsure movements. He pushed papers out on the table before they were expected or after they were needed... He seemed almost rude... when others were speaking he moved in his chair, looked away, rolled his eyes, fidgeted, and generally gave off the message that he was bored or inattentive when in actual fact I could tell from his work that he was neither. His movements surprised the three of us who looked at them and tried to analyze them. They were completely unpredictable. We never discussed our findings with him because we didn't think there was any point. However, I realized that his inability to communicate accurately made him less useful to the organization and I avoided using him on jobs requiring public contact."

Ultimately Molloy did tell the guy what was going on, the guy took it well and proceeded to research the problem - and he realized that two of his children were doing the same things! They went on to research that phenomenon, and Molloy believes that "10 to 15 percent of the population send off negative mixed verbal-visual messages. In addition to sending them, they teach them to their children."

But not *all* of the guy's children picked up this tendency. Some of the kids realized their dad's signals were not standard to the culture and developed more common ones. Some kids have a more instinctive understanding of these unconscious cues, even though they don't know what they're doing. And the "cure," for most people, is just to see themselves as they do it. One of the sons started talking to himself in front of a mirror and was more successful straightening out his signals than his sibling or father - now they use video tape for people they're working with, so the person can see exactly what they're doing that sends the wrong message, and how to fix it.

I would hazard a guess that EW is one of those people who instinctively send the right signals. Further, I suspect his modeling classes and such like (where they usually do mirror work) helped him to tune into that aspect even more. In order for someone to send the right signals they have to be aware of the signals others are sending. None of the people Molloy was working with were consciously aware of what they were doing - the ones who did it wrong obviously weren't, but the ones who sent positive signals didn't know either.

It may be that one of the reasons EW's characters do tend to be so charming is that he's so tightly tuned into this signal system. Then again, since men and women often read signals differently, maybe he's signaling in a way woman are more likely to appreciate. :p

End Crazed Theory.

Sheryl

edit:

Goldie,
I'll miss you. Take care of yourself while you're gone!

Sheryl

Originally posted by shilohmm

No.

:D




-----ooooh, Sheryl, you bad :eek: !

I really can't remember with the Good Son (although I do remember a defensive hunch in that I think), but when Huck's fishing with Billy and Billy's dad, he has a very lower-class stance, IIRC, including a bit of the hunch, or slouch, and I don't think he's feeling particularly vulnerable at that point. Haven't gone back to check, though. I'm gonna try to get another viewing of The War in today before we have to turn it back in.
Regarding Huck--yes, he does have a "slouch" while fishing. I've got that scene screencapped at Huck Finn Fishing Scene (http://members.tripod.com/afewwords_tgs/id154.htm). What I should do is put a cap of the father and son in the page frame, so they can be compared to Huck. IIRC, the father's bending over, but it's not what I'd call a slouch or a hunch--he's more trying to be at eye-level with his son, I think. I don't know if Huck feels [i]vulnerable at that point, but he is having a serious conscience attack about Jim (he hears his own words in his mind).

In the "one-take" scene, I see it clearly while he's walking, not so clearly when he's standing still. Since we see him full-length in that scene, and up-close in the fishing scene, they're probably good study material :) .

Speaking of which--I have the one-take scene pictures ready to post. I want to type in the dialogue, since that's part of what makes the scene so amazing (well, what makes Elijah in the scene so amazing). But since this topic has come up, I may go ahead and put up the pictures tonight even if I don't have time to add the dialogue. At the same time, I'll see about getting a pic of the father and son posted on the fishing scene page--I didn't even make any screencaps of them, so will be forced :p to put the DVD back in.

With a grin on his face, he made a comment about having to let half a dozen people go. The look was almost satanic in context, and yet I know he worked very hard to get another commission so that those people could continue to work...
There are a lot of people who smile out of nervousness--so, since they're smiling in high-stress situations, it often looks inappropriate. (I used to be one of those people, but it was pointed out to me and I hope I've "unlearned" it.)

"He also had jerky, unsure movements. He pushed papers out on the table before they were expected or after they were needed... He seemed almost rude... when others were speaking he moved in his chair, looked away, rolled his eyes, fidgeted, and generally gave off the message that he was bored or inattentive when in actual fact I could tell from his work that he was neither. His movements surprised the three of us who looked at them and tried to analyze them. They were completely unpredictable..."
What first popped into my head when I read this was Tourette's syndrome--although the fact that the man could learn to control his actions says it wasn't. [Something like Tourette's would be a real acting challenge, wouldn't it?]

None of the people Molloy was working with were consciously aware of what they were doing - the ones who did it wrong obviously weren't, but the ones who sent positive signals didn't know either.
Hmmm... Sounds like a corollary to the microexpression theory. :) And, IMHO, reinforces the belief that part of his "secret" is how well he observes (consciously or subconsciously) the signals other people send.

--------

Goldie, hope all goes well and RL will let you come back soon. If you're still "here" -- Here's an early Happy Birthday wish, just in case we don't see you before then :) . Don't let RL keep you from enjoying the day :k .

[Something like Tourette's would be a real acting challenge, wouldn't it?]Ooh ooh, what a great idea for an Oscar-bait movie! :D :D Now all we need is to get Harvey Weinstein (Miramax) to fund it and Martin Scorsese to direct it. We'll get Elijah an Oscar somehow...

How about Elijah playing someone very intelligent but suffering with schizophrenia? (MUCH different that A Beautiful Mind)

It just so happens that's the script idea I'm working on. He could act his little heart out, reduce the audience to tears..as we well know.. and win an Oscar!

Oh, hush! Hush! Hush! :D

Remember that the reshoots and additional shoots for RotK haven't been done yet! Don't give New Line any ideas! :eek: Don't make them write any more memos to PJ about "Certain new elements to be included and changes to be made to ensure sufficient realism in RotK, ensure that the audience *really, really* gets it when it comes to Frodo; - and especially to ensure that we all get lots of Oscars!!" :eek: Don't give them such thoughts! :eek: :D

Seriously, though, and leaving schizophrenia aside, I know little about Tourettes syndrom except from what I've seen in various lawyer/court-based American TV series (Ally McBeal and the like). Those seem to love this particular illness, since it apparently opens up for all sorts of litigation, and also for very physical acting and scenes that at the same time have the hint of both great personal tragedy and (involuntary) comedy. So therefore I've certainly *seen* various people *act* Tourettes already; - none of their acting left much of an impression though. (And my sincere apologies to anyone more familiar with the disease than I am, I do not mean to offend anyone.)


Blossom, congratulations on becoming GIFabled! :) I especially loved Mikey's last moment-GIF. Poor Mikey. Personally I still favour that role of EJW's over Stu in the War.

The gifs on Pg 101 are up. I won't delete them any time soon unless Lycos does something mean again. :rolleyes: So take your time Narya. :k posted by Narya
tgshaw, it is very reassuring to see that April 1's avatar has hit the dust bin... :DBoy, all those dissing on the cartoon-that-shall-not-be-named got me really curious. I wasn't planning to watch it but now I kinda wanna go rent it just to see how bad it is. :rolleyes: :p

Goldenberry-- http://members.lycos.co.uk/duckycc/smilies/hug.gif Take care!
posted by Sheryl
Well, what a pain. But it was free, right?Yeah, so I can't really complain much. :o http://members.lycos.co.uk/duckycc/smilies/bleh.gif *fingers crossed it won't happen again*
posted by SherylOriginally posted by Tathar
He's the only character Elijah has ever played who dies, isn't he?
No.
:D http://members.lycos.co.uk/duckycc/smilies/huh.gif http://members.lycos.co.uk/duckycc/smilies/think.gif
posted by Tg
-----ooooh, Sheryl, you bad [insert evil smiley here.] :eek:! ohhhhhh, http://members.lycos.co.uk/duckycc/smilies/doh.gif http://members.lycos.co.uk/duckycc/smilies/devil.gif

Just read on TORN that Eternal Sunshine Of The Spotless Mind has been moved to November 14th. It was originally a June release right? Then that's a good thing, the studio probably plans to push it for award consideration. :cool:

Deluby, thank you! I've got them now!:D :k :k

Originally posted by shilohmm
:eek:

ainon, I fear for you. ;)

Thank you. I'm come back to my senses now. It's tg's fault. She's the one who drove me to such madness. :D

Sure, deluby. Go ahead. Watch that animated movie that shall not be named. No, really, it's not that bad. A shock to the system, sure. An overload of Jennifer Love Hewitt, yeah. An irritation that mercifully ends after about an hour, maybe. But nooo, not that bad ... ;) :D

Btw, glad that you've thwarted Lycos and got your site back up again. Well, sorta. :)

------

Watched Harrison Ford's Witness a couple of nights ago, on satellite TV. I love that movie, but had only ever seen a censored version of it, years ago, so it was with great shock that I found out that there's a scene where Harrison Ford and Kelly McGillis spend at least two minutes kissing each other with great, erm, force. :p But anyway, after having recovered from my shock, I was bemused to note that the way Harrison Ford was kissing McGillis reminded me Barney desperately kissing the girl in Bumblebee. (see, I *am* on-topic! LOL) I have seen Ford kiss lots of girls in lots of movies, and while I ain't the kissing expert, I know I'd never seen Ford kiss anyone as desperately as he did McGillis. So that was acting. Hence, that settles the kissing issue in my mind that EW was indeed acting and cannot be assumed to be a lousy kisser. ;)

Hey, it kinda goes with all this talk about body language!

And I did spot Viggo in Witness. He's quite prominent, actually, but had no lines.

-----

These very blurry screencaps are from Elijah's The Witness. Just sharing 'em, But I'm leaving out one moment that comes in between what I've posted here. Visual aid (if you're able to see anything!). To go with what Sheryl said. About, you know.

http://image1ex.villagephotos.com/1914002.jpg

http://image1ex.villagephotos.com/1914172.jpg


----


Speaking of which--I have the one-take scene pictures ready to post.

tg - I loves ya. :cool:


Goldie - take care! Birthday coming up? A happy early (or late, depending on when you see this ;) ) birthday wish to you! :k

Originally posted by ainon
Thank you. I'm come back to my senses now. It's tg's fault. She's the one who drove me to such madness. :D
Hey, what did I do :p ? (Well, I guess I did use the smallest possible pic of the movie cover--if I would have made it full-size you would have run away screaming, like any other sensible person :D .)

Sure, deluby. Go ahead. Watch that animated movie that shall not be named. No, really, it's not that bad. A shock to the system, sure. An overload of Jennifer Love Hewitt, yeah. An irritation that mercifully ends after about an hour, maybe. But nooo, not that bad ... ;) :D
The story makes no sense (although the ending is telegraphed 100 miles away), there's only one catchy song (I've just watched it once and that was last August, so I can't tell you which one, but I remember there was one :p ), the only title character who actually does anything is Thumbelina, the animation's flat, there are multiples of the "funny" animal sidekicks and stupid henchmen that always appear in Disney cartoons (they're worse than those in the "major" Disney movies), Tom Thumb's a doofus (boy, I haven't used that word in a long time), and you don't even get to see Elijah. But, yeah, it's not that bad :rolleyes: . There's a minute or two of interaction between Tom and his foster father (Elijah and Robert Guillaume) that's halfway decent and shows a bit of human emotion--if you can overlook the fact that the content of the conversation is ridiculous.

Maybe when Elijah gets to the height of his career, it'll become a cult classic :p ; you know, one of those movies that are so bad they're "good." ------ Horrible thought: I hope to Eru no talk show host gets hold of it between now and the round of RotK interviews :eek: :eek: ! At Amazon, at least, it's being marketed now strictly on the basis of it's being a Disney movie, not by who's in it, so maybe it will fly under the radar.

------

deluby--June would seem like a pretty early release to plan for a movie that's just finished shooting. I think peaceweaver reported recently that Try Seventeen had been pushed back from June to September, so maybe that's what you're thinking of? I agree a November release for Eternal Sunshine is promising, since "serious stuff" is usually released then.

---------

Okay, everything Tolkien or Elijah related is up on my website for April (still a couple more pages to go in some of the other sections of the site--you see where my priorities are ;) ). In case anyone's forgotten, the April Tolkien essay already went up weeks ago because of the "Frodo's heroism" discussion--there ain't no more! There are two pages for the Huck Finn One-Take Scene (http://members.tripod.com/afewwords_tgs/id161.htm). I also added a few pics of the plantation owner and his son in the left frame of the Huck Finn Fishing Scene (http://members.tripod.com/afewwords_tgs/id154.htm) page, for those who wanted to research body posture. I'll be interested to see if there are any conclusions--the son seems to be about as "hunched" as Huck, but I'm not sure the two postures are quite the same, so I'm waiting for expert opinions ;) . Also different "random screencap" and "Frodshadowing" of the month on the main Elijah Wood Geeks page, but nothing new, if you take my meaning...

I picked up Chain of Fools at the mailbox on the way to work this morning! According to the info on my computer's DVD drive, a VCD should work in it. Guess we'll find out tonight if it plays and if it will do screencaps--and, hmmm... I guess whether I like the movie or not :) . Two new EJW movies (for me) within a month! I don't know if I can handle it :eek: ! (If it's possible, I guess I just might have to add one more thing to the website before May--a review of Chain of Fools!)

BunnieBugs is back - she popped up in Hobmom's Hug thread. :cool: Says she'll show up here again eventually. :)

Originally posted by tgshaw
What I should do is put a cap of the father and son in the page frame, so they can be compared to Huck.

I think they're a bit too slouched, myself. If you read stuff from that era, "physically upright" was practially the equivalent of "morally upright," at least for women. Although that may have been a Northern thing, rather than Southern, when it came to men. The two areas did have different definitions of socially acceptable - deuling was illegal everywhere, for instance, but in the South society accepted it for far longer than the Northerners did.

Might just indicate that the guys playing dad and son weren't as good at acting as EW. ;) I should go watch in on the DVD but I just started up Barney for fussy two-year-old and am not about to try now. :eek: And Huck seems as slouched at the beginning when he's thinking about how great life is as he does when clearly recognizing it isn't so great for Jim, I think. He could have drooped more as that aspect came to the front of his thoughts, but he doesn't, best I can tell.

I really need to break down and watch the scene. :p

Originally posted by tgshaw

In the "one-take" scene, I see it clearly while he's walking, not so clearly when he's standing still. Since we see him full-length in that scene, and up-close in the fishing scene, they're probably good study material :) .

I agree that it's more obvious when he's moving. Especially when he swings around at some point, IIRC.

Originally posted by tgshaw

There are a lot of people who smile out of nervousness--so, since they're smiling in high-stress situations, it often looks inappropriate.

Molloy speculates that the twitchy stuff people who send mixed signals do is caused by years of being ignored and avoided - they have speech patterns he connects to that experience as well. If he's right (hasn't done any long-term studies so this is pure theory on his part), then people start out with a few quirky expressions and develop more as they go along. Initially they're just ignored, but the coping skill they develop is to be *more* annoying in order to be heard at all.

I don't think I smile when stressed, as a rule, but I do remember giggling hysterically once - even as I was doing it, I was thinking, "What's wrong with you? That's totally inappropriate!" :p On absolutely no evidence, I suspect that some mixed message senders are people who're strongly emotional and weren't taught ways to deal with this emotion appropriately. "Have to laugh or I'd cry" sort of things. I used to get spanked for crying, while laughing inappropriately just got me a lecture. ;)

Originally posted by tgshaw

Hmmm... Sounds like a corollary to the microexpression theory. :) And, IMHO, reinforces the belief that part of his "secret" is how well he observes (consciously or subconsciously) the signals other people send.

Yeppers. I reread clear through that chapter last night (I'd just pulled those specific quotes before), and one of the reasons Molloy is skeptical about people reading others is the fact that some expressions pass so fleetingly you have to film them and analyze the film frame-by-frame to even see the expressions being discussed. Makes more sense to him to be aware of what you're projecting than to try to analyze expressions in others you can't even consciously see.

The real problem with the research is that most of it is so sophisticated, introcate, and complicated that the results cannot be used in everyday life. Most researchers study body signals by playing back film or video tapes in slow motion. Many signals are so subtle, they are missed at real life speed, which make the data they produce not very useful. If you spend twenty years studying the films, you'll probably have more questions than answers.

Hmmm, that last sentence has a certain resonance for me. ;)

Molloy is very down on the research on body signals that depend on what animals do, partly because a lot of the results of that research isn't reflected in what people actually do.

Something else that Molloy brings up applies to acting as well, IMHO. He just touches on the concept; I went to get a description of the experiments from another book by W. Peter Blitchington.

Experiments have demonstrated that during a state of emotional arousal the actual feeling state that a person experiences depends on how he labels or conceptualizes his state of activation. Psychologist Stanley Schacter conducted an experiment which demonstrated this relationship. He told volunteers for his experiment he was interested in the effect of a vitamin on their vision, and they agreed to an injection of the vitamin. In actuality he injected them with epinephrine, a biochemical agent which minicks sympathetic arousal; in other words, it produces a high state of emotional arousal....

During this period [of emotional arousal] these subjects were placed in a room. In this room there was another person who supposedly was also a subject in the experiment; in actuality he was an actor performing a part. In one condition the actor behaved in a very euphoric manner; he catted in a friendly and extroverted way; he played "basketball" with wastepaper and a garbage bag.... In the other condition, the actor behaved in a very angry manner. ... For a while, he made irritated statements about the personal questions asked of him on the questionnaire; soon his irritation turned to anger and eventually he jumped up, tore up the questionnaire, and rushed from the room in a state of outrage.

... suffice it to say that these subjects, who didn't know the reason for their state of emotional arousal, were heavily influenced by the situation in which they found themselves. Those exposed to the euphoric actor began to act in a euphoric manner themselves and reported greater feelings of euphoria and excitement. Those exposed to the angry actor reacted likewise with anger.

Is it me, or is Molloy more readable than Blitchington? Anyhow...

This phenomenon is called mirroring. I would assume the best movies are those which create this response in the viewer, and the best actors those the viewer can most easily connect to. I should think the goal of the actor is to get the audience to feel what the character is feeling along with the character. Since the viewer hasn't been dosed with epinephrine, the actor has to establish a connection on other grounds, establish a connection with the viewer somehow, usually by being likeable I would suspect.

A good script and music help, of course. ;)

Originally posted by tgshaw

Maybe when Elijah gets to the height of his career, it'll become a cult classic ; you know, one of those movies that are so bad they're "good."

Frightening thought; for many kids, this will be their first exposure to EW. Years from now, that might be their favorite of his performances, where they would defend the movie from sheer sentiment. :eek: :D

Eagerly awaiting your review of CoF, tg.

Sheryl

ainon, that first screencap is creepy. :eek:

Well I don't expect anything great from Disney straight to video cartoons, but it couldn't be that bad could it? :confused: I wonder why Elijah chose to do it.


BTW, Anybody needs avatars? I made a bunch of them when I was playing with color adjustment, so I figure I'll share them here. Feel free to use them, I'll be doing more from FOTR. :)

http://members.lycos.co.uk/duckycc/avatar/09.jpg http://members.lycos.co.uk/duckycc/avatar/10.jpg http://members.lycos.co.uk/duckycc/avatar/11.jpg http://members.lycos.co.uk/duckycc/avatar/12.jpg http://members.lycos.co.uk/duckycc/avatar/13.jpg http://members.lycos.co.uk/duckycc/avatar/14.jpg http://members.lycos.co.uk/duckycc/avatar/15.jpg http://members.lycos.co.uk/duckycc/avatar/16.jpg http://members.lycos.co.uk/duckycc/avatar/17.jpg http://members.lycos.co.uk/duckycc/avatar/18.jpg http://members.lycos.co.uk/duckycc/avatar/19.jpg http://members.lycos.co.uk/duckycc/avatar/20.jpg

yikes, image limit.

http://members.lycos.co.uk/duckycc/avatar/21.jpg http://members.lycos.co.uk/duckycc/avatar/22.jpg http://members.lycos.co.uk/duckycc/avatar/23.jpg http://members.lycos.co.uk/duckycc/avatar/24.jpg http://members.lycos.co.uk/duckycc/avatar/25.jpg http://members.lycos.co.uk/duckycc/avatar/26.jpg http://members.lycos.co.uk/duckycc/avatar/27.jpg http://members.lycos.co.uk/duckycc/avatar/28.jpg http://members.lycos.co.uk/duckycc/avatar/29.jpg http://members.lycos.co.uk/duckycc/avatar/30.jpg http://members.lycos.co.uk/duckycc/avatar/31.jpg http://members.lycos.co.uk/duckycc/avatar/32.jpg http://members.lycos.co.uk/duckycc/avatar/33.jpg http://members.lycos.co.uk/duckycc/avatar/34.jpg http://members.lycos.co.uk/duckycc/avatar/35.jpg

*runs before mods come in with trout in hand*
I'll post the rest later.

Eeek, deluby, what great avatars! Can I just save them all and use one a day? :D

No. :D

Sheryl, I know it's irritating to explain to people inside jokes/comments, but I have to admit that I have no idea what you're referring to. :confused: Am I just really out of touch with 'Lij's movies?? :eek:

tg -- :k for those "one-take" caps! I'm awaiting my Huck Finn DVD, which is supposed to arrive sometime around Easter (sigh -- :( ), and I haven't seen it in *ages* so I'm always glad to see more caps to refresh my memory. :D Not that being in the Faculty regularly doesn't do that anyway. :rolleyes:

No more comments from me for the moment, except that The Witness looks really intriguing! :p

Woohoo Tathar just posted, now I can post the rest of avatars without feeling too guilty. :o Can I just save them all and use one a day? No problem Tathar. We haven't got any new piccy for months, fortunately we have Tg's daily dose of fro avatars. I guess the more the merrier right? ;)

Here are the rest.

http://members.lycos.co.uk/duckycc/avatar/36.jpg http://members.lycos.co.uk/duckycc/avatar/37.jpg http://members.lycos.co.uk/duckycc/avatar/38.jpg http://members.lycos.co.uk/duckycc/avatar/39.jpg http://members.lycos.co.uk/duckycc/avatar/40.jpg http://members.lycos.co.uk/duckycc/avatar/41.jpg http://members.lycos.co.uk/duckycc/avatar/42.jpg http://members.lycos.co.uk/duckycc/avatar/43.jpg http://members.lycos.co.uk/duckycc/avatar/44.jpg http://members.lycos.co.uk/duckycc/avatar/45.jpg http://members.lycos.co.uk/duckycc/avatar/46.jpg http://members.lycos.co.uk/duckycc/avatar/47.jpg http://members.lycos.co.uk/duckycc/avatar/48.jpg

Ooooooooooooh, deluby, I just loooooooooooove those avatars! Some of the pics I wouldn't have thought would make good avatars. Wow... :eek: The ever-astonishing deluby, astonishing me again! :D

deluby,
Is the first avatar from a publicity shot? And where is the April 1 laughing Fro avatar from? Dragon fireworks?

Love that look of determination from Shelob's Lair. *happy sigh* But do I like it enough to switch? Hmm. Hubby got me the poster for mine for my birthday and had it mounted, it's now on the wall in my living room. That and the Trouble with Tribbles plate don't exactly fit with the big Korean painting over the fireplace or the oriental swords and oriental decorative boxes on the mantle, or the Hiroshege and Hokusai prints on the wall, but at least they're honest representatives of our weirdness, eh? And the gold-tone colors fit, at least...

Originally posted by Tathar
Sheryl, I know it's irritating to explain to people inside jokes/comments, but I have to admit that I have no idea what you're referring to.

Just being obnoxious. ;)

WARNING: Huge SPOILER for one of EW's movies



So far as I know, EW's character dies only in two different movies; The Ice Storm, as has been discussed, and also the Witness. The Nazi soldier sneaks into the dormitory and smothers the child EW is playing. ainon's Witness screen caps are before and after that event. And here's another sentence so those who avoid spoilers can scan past more easily. (I always inadvertantly catch spoilers that are only one sentence, myself...)





End spoiler



Sheryl

Hello Faculty members!

I wanted to come in from the void for a moment to say ‘Hi and how are you’. I’m still here lurking when I can, in spite of having my Internet time greatly curtailed over the last few months.

Deluby that is a great sequence of avatars. I doubt if I will ever reach a sufficient post count to qualify for one, but if I do I’ll know exactly where to look!

(It’s one of my regrets that I’ve missed so many of tgshaw’s avatar offerings. They sound truly inspired.)
:) :) :)

Sheryl, thank you for clearing that up. :D I have to go back a few pages and read up some more on The Witness... I'm still behind! :p Edit: I can't see those pics of the Witness -- I could earlier, but now I can't. :confused: I'll try again tomorrow and see if my computor feels more inclined to be nice to me. :rolleyes:

Welcome, estella rose! Glad you've come out of hiding for a bit! :)

Deluby* There is still a wonderfull pic of Frodo that you haven't put up. Erendis has this wonderful, joyous pic of Frodo, looking so happy. Ask her to send you it or maybe you have it and just didn't get to it yet.

I think its the best pic of him.

Wow--estella rose and King Lamoni!! :) :) Hi!! So good to "see" you!

Not staying long, as I've already put myself past my bedtime getting through Chain of Fools. No review yet (but definitely a thumbs-up). Did want to post one screencap, though, just to see what it looks like. The program works with the VCD, but the caps don't seem as clear as ones from a DVD, and their original "capture" is a much smaller image. About the one I'm posting here -- When each character first comes on-screen, the picture freeze-frames for a moment and puts up a caption for the person. Most of them are pretty funny. Here's the one for Elijah's character:

http://www.imagemagician.com/images/tgshaw/Previous movies/cap58220.jpg

Sheryl, interesting stuff on the nonverbals. The quote from Molloy reminds me of the original microexpression researcher--IIRC, his biggest interest in using what he learned was improving lie detection, so using the video playbacks, etc., would make sense. What he was working from, though, was his discovery that there are a small number of people who do subconsciously pick up those "fleeting expressions" on other people's faces--for example, a police officer whose "hunches" about a suspect usually turn out to be right. Which leads to the EJW-microexpression theory: that Elijah's one of those people who picks up other people's expressions--consciously or subconsciously--and he's then able to transfer them to his characters.

[OT head-scratching: That epinephrine experiment sounds odd, though--I'd love to see the consent forms the subjects signed for that to see how it was worded. To tell someone you're giving them a vitamin and then inject them with a stimulant seems a bit (to put it mildly) unethical :confused: , which makes me wonder how they arranged it all.]

------------

Avatar note: Mine are on my hard drive, so I can't post them in the thread (except one-at-a-time as attachments). But I think right-click-save works with them just as it would with any image, and I can send any by email if anyone wants. Not that anyone will want, with deluby's available--and at least ten times better than mine :rolleyes: .

More CHOF caps,please, tg! Thank you!

Ah..Mikey.. studying for his G.E.D.!

Elijah, who was an A plus student and who probably should be a mensa candidate, actually becomes poor dumb lost Mikey in CHOF. You can believe he IS dumb as a stump! And THAT is called mighty fine acting!

What can he NOT do?

Will the Oscar and Olivier Awards be called the Elijah Wood awards in long years to come?

Am I biased? Nah! He IS the best young OR older actor around today.

Love that look of determination from Shelob's Lair. *happy sigh* But do I like it enough to switch?

Well, I really associate avatars with users on here, so I wouldn't really want you to change yours, Sheryl. However, the Shelob scene IS nice - I have it as my wallpaper on my computer here.

TG: Love your one take pics. Will have to study them very closely :)

Welcome back estella and King Lamoni.

Hello, Colleagues! How nice to *see* everyone! Very nice to see old friends and new here at the lounge.

Especially nice to arrive to such a brilliant display of avatars. Thank you, deluby. I think I'm going to stick with my silly one, though. ;)

The discussion of TT&T is giving me heartburn. I could only listen to it for about ten minutes, before the saccharin levels became toxic. :p But I love Chain of Fools. I am so glad you've seen it now, tg. I would argue that it is no masterpiece, but a darned sight better than much of drivel that Hollywood releases and advertises the heck out of. I still can't figure out why this film languishes in Warner Brothers' vaults. What ninnies run film studios anyway?

I am delighted that Eternal Sunshine will see the light of day. Now if we can just convince someone to distribute Try Seventeen...

Hiya, KL! You know, the Faculty has really missed you. We're in dire need of males right now. (No, not like THAT. Yeesh. :rolleyes: :p ) But since this thread is an acting study and not a swooning thread, males and male perspective are more than welcome.

That said, I'll jump on any excuse to post my Frolijah Feeling Love pic, the one which pitched me into the Harem. It has been my wallpaper and part of my avatar for over a year, and i have no intention of partying with it.

http://www.imgmag.com/images/erendisofkd/68925.jpg
(I also have a larger size.)

What I've noticed about this one is that all the joy and love is conveyed solely through the little muscles around his Eyes. Even if his mouth were completely shut you could still tell what he was feeling. How does he DO this?

EDIT: Did I just typo "partying with it?!?!" :eek: I meant "parting" with it.

EDIT again:
[can't resist]from peaceweaver
I am delighted that Eternal Sunshine will see the light of day.And here I thought that Eternal Sunhine was the light of day. :p :k
[/can't resist]

Originally posted by tgshaw
[OT head-scratching: That epinephrine experiment sounds odd, though--I'd love to see the consent forms the subjects signed for that to see how it was worded. To tell someone you're giving them a vitamin and then inject them with a stimulant seems a bit (to put it mildly) unethical :confused: , which makes me wonder how they arranged it all.]That Schachter experiment was done about 40 years ago. Those were the good old days of experimental psychology before all this namby-pamby nonsense about "ethics" and "informed consent" and "being sued" came in. Back then, research psychologists could expose their subjects to all manner of traumatic stimuli (http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B000068MC6.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg) in the name of Science.

(:p Sorry, but I had to get this post back on-topic somehow, didn't I?)

But seriously, one of the great ironies of modern psychology is that many of the famous "classic" experiments on which it's based couldn't be done today because they would never pass an ethics board.


And continuing with the psychological theme...

Originally posted by erendis:
EDIT: Did I just typo "partying with it?!?!" I think that's what's called a Freudian slip. Or should that be a Frodian slip? :D

estella rose!!!!!! Am I so happy to see you back. :k :k Hi yourself! I hope you'll be able to post, but at least it's good to know you're lurking with us. :)

Good to see you back too, King Lamoni. And LOL - erendis, thanks for sharing Frolijah Feeling Love -- may we party with it? :D

deluby - WOW. I mean ... WOW They're all beautiful! Absolute favourite: http://members.lycos.co.uk/duckycc/avatar/36.jpg The image they used for the 'Best Supporting Actor' ad last year. I don't collect posters, but that BSA poster would be one I wouldn't have minded having. Or this http://members.lycos.co.uk/duckycc/avatar/44.jpg from the 'Legendary Frodo & Sam' poster. :k

tgshaw - amazing Huck Finn updates there. Of course. :) Some thoughts as I savoured your caps: how hard it must have been to get both Jim and Huck in frame when they were standing together that way - because Elijah's so small. Elijah's lip-pursing as he looks around -- that is my favourite moment from this 'One Take' scene. And what you said about the scene having a 'staged' feel, with Elijah saying his lines exactly on cue - yeah, it does. Stu's big scene in 'The War', where he goes "Why'd He have to take my daddy?" feels that way to me too. I noticed because I tend to be analytical about stuff like that when I watch movies/shows, especially on repeat viewings. But it doesn't affect the emotions - they still feel *real* to me.

LOL about Mikey there. Looking forward to your comments and additional caps. :D



Tathar, my pics are at Village Photos, and when I reach my 5 MB bandwidth limit per day, that's it. The pics won't be visible. :( Hope you have better luck today/tonight. I'm posting a couple more pics from VP -- this will drain the bandwidth pretty quick, but well, we're on topic about 'The Witness' and Huck Finn, so how could I not.


All those who avoided Sheryl's SPOILER above, please scroll quickly past the first pic below. I'll leave space above and below the spoiler pic.

After the spoiler pic I'm posting a pic of Huck & Jim. I printscreened the pic off an EW article. It's not a scene from the movie, but it's a very nice aww moment for Huck & Jim. And hey, they're fishing!




SPOILER WARNING - IMAGE









spoiler space







http://image1ex.villagephotos.com/1914004.jpg









spoiler space












/SPOILER IMAGE





Huck & Jim:

http://image1ex.villagephotos.com/2047682.jpg


Apologies if you only see red X's instead. Please try again the day after, is all I can say, unfortunately.

Spoilerish comment about spoiler pic.....



Waaaah! At the spoiler pic. I used to like Gary Sinise. OK I still like him but how could anybody do that to that sweet baby? Even when they are just acting?




LOL Erendis at the Frodian slip.:D


Try Seventeen is supposed to be released in September now. But I haven't seen anything about who will distribute it.

When will the movie companies realize that Elijah is box office right now. Not to mention his films actually ARE good. Well except for TT&T. But we know cartoons don't count.

But think about it. IF Try Seventeen comes out then and then Eternal Sunshine in November THEN of course ROTK in December that gives Elijah THREE shots at an Oscar! Will he be recognized by Hollywood this year? Sigh...I doubt it. But he SHOULD be!

Anyway we'll have three Lij movies to see and thats :eek: :D :k ;) :D

Originally posted by erendis
http://www.imgmag.com/images/erendisofkd/68925.jpg
What I've noticed about this one is that all the joy and love is conveyed solely through the little muscles around his Eyes. Even if his mouth were completely shut you could still tell what he was feeling. How does he DO this?

I think that "acting" joy or love or happiness must be more difficult than acting angry or troubled...which is why I always wonder why it's the angst-ridden performances that catch Oscar's eye.

Although, I honestly think this is a case where he's not "doing" anything at all, not acting. At the risk of sounding corny, I think this is him, being himself...a genuinely joyous, loving and lovely person.

Do you notice that you can't help but smile when you look at this picture? And if you look at it long enough, you get dowright giddy!

Originally posted by Gladys
...Back then, research psychologists could expose their subjects to all manner of traumatic stimuli (http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B000068MC6.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg) in the name of Science.

(:p Sorry, but I had to get this post back on-topic somehow, didn't I?)
Gladys!! Talk about unethical--hitting them with it at full size :eek :eek: ?!

As far as staying on topic--Those research differences are the biggest changes book-to-movie for Bumblebee. There was about a 15-year timespan between the two and it sure shows (I got a kick out of the fact that they even talked about "reconsenting" in the movie--someone did their homework). Even with the book being written in the early 1980's, though, the researcher was still doing some pretty unethical stuff--which I learned later (probably from someone here :) ) is a hallmark of the author. His adolescent/teenage characters are often exploited. Poor little book-Barney :( . I'm glad the movie gave him another chance.

----------

I see that happy Frodo picture quite often :) -- I'm still using the "Frodo" screensaver that the official site had available before FotR came out, and that's one of the pictures that's rotated--a smaller version, though, so thank you--thank you--thank you for the larger one :) . The smiling with the muscles around the eyes is one of the things the "microexpression" researcher says can't be consciously controlled, so the chance that there's some "real" happiness coming out there is pretty good, I'd say. :)

Do you people have any idea how hard it is to get caught up in this thread?

Do you?

You ought to make cliff notes. :rolleyes:

Anyway... got some films in the mail today... one of them was Ash Wednesday. Sorry to come late to the party, but hey, I have been away.

You must realize I hate piano music... I was REALLY sick of that one piece after about the 15th rendition... :rolleyes:. I also wonder if that lack of budget also meant he couldn't have afforded a beta reader for his script. :rolleyes: I felt like I was watching bad fanfic come to life! Gawd! Some of that dialog.... :eek: I REALLY wondered if maybe he hadn't written that thing in a gin sodden weekend. *Ariel shakes her head in disbelief* Take out the repetitions of the 'f-word' and the film would have been about 45 minutes shorter.

OK... back to your regularly scheduled programming.

Ariel

Ariel- You just about summed up my review of AW. Poor Lij! He is worthy of so much more. I found that watching AW with Ed's commentary was 100 times better than the movie itself. Ed kind of knows he blew it. So everything is better.. and Lij looks better... with the commentary on and the dialogue off. At least it isn't Black and White!

Hi all :)

Hi again to King Lamoni and Estella Rose!

Just popped in to say that Paradise is on in the UK tomorrow night (or Monday morning rather), ITV at 1.10am - another EW film to add to the list! Is that the one that he's in with Melanie Griffith, Thora Birch and Don Johnson? Will have to set the video! :)

I managed to get a Chain of Fools DVD from Ebay :rolleyes: I've not watched it yet but all the screencaps I've seen look promising.

Deluby - I love all your avatars! (Thinks for a minute...Hmmm... Oh no I better not get rid of Bagend Frodo! :D )

Hugs,

Luth :k

Originally posted by Ariel
You must realize I hate piano music... I was REALLY sick of that one piece after about the 15th rendition... :rolleyes:. I also wonder if that lack of budget also meant he couldn't have afforded a beta reader for his script. :rolleyes: I felt like I was watching bad fanfic come to life! Gawd! Some of that dialog.... :eek:
Of course, this is just IMVHO, but I think the lack of a beta reader was the product of too much ego rather than too little money. From the commentary (BTW, I agree with Hobmom on that--the commentary's more interesting than the movie), it's pretty clear that Ed wants to do everything himself--so he does. Since The Brothers McMullen turned out fairly well, he seems to think he can keep pulling it off. I don't read enough fanfic to be able to compare it to the bad stuff there, but it reminded me of something we'd get as a first draft from a beginning writer in my critique group--who, of course, doesn't realize it's just a first draft because he/she thinks it's incredibly wonderful and can't understand why none of the 57 editors he/she has sent it to so far has jumped at the chance of buying it. It's sometimes difficult to shift the person's thinking from "What's wrong with them?" to "What's wrong with my writing?" [The ones who come back the next week after being told the latter are the ones who end up improving.] Ed strikes me as someone who's still sending things off to the editors without getting any feedback from anyone else--and who had the additional misfortune of having his very first story published, so he thinks he's "got it." As Hobmom also said, from the commentary you can tell he's dissatisfied with the movie--but he seems to blame the problems on the low budget and is thinking he might want to start making bigger-budget movies. If I were going to shell out "big budget" money to him, I'd sure have it written into the contract that he wouldn't fly solo!

IMHO, what's worse than the dialogue (not to say that's stellar :rolleyes: ) is the storyline (I can't quite bring myself to call it a "plot"). I found that to enjoy the movie at all, I had to completely shut off the brain's logical function and stop wondering "Why did he do that?" "Why didn't they do that?" over and over, because there just aren't any reasonable answers. This is where I really get a mental image of Ed facing the critique group: "Ed, back on page 5 Francis says..... but then on page 26 we find out that..... You see that those are totally incompatible, don't you? You're going to have to rewrite one or the other--now, which do you think it would make more sense to change?..... And I don't get the idea that you want the priest to come across as a complete idiot. Do you?..... I didn't think so. So in God's name, when this hit the fan three years ago, why didn't he.....?

If someone wants to see some intermittently interesting camera and lighting work (that can be done on a low budget), or wants to see how many actual locations in New York City they can recognize, this might be a useful movie. If someone wants good dialogue and a story that makes [i]sense, uh, no. Oh, and Rosario Dawson's acting makes her scenes watchable--and she seems to be the only logical character in the bunch (I wonder if she gave some input--requested or not--into how the character's written).

(BTW, I like piano music, and I was sick of that piece.)

---------deluby, just a thought for the compilation disk: what would you think of including the opening flashback scene and the scene in the van from AW? IMHO, those are the only two worthwhile acting scenes Elijah has. Or, if there's not room for both, just the scene in the van, which is less than a minute long. The flashback scene is interesting and we get some camera-eye-views of Elijah we don't see often, but there's really not much acting involved.

------------

Now, if you want a logical storyline and realistic characters, watch Chain of Fools :p -- and I'm only half kidding (especially when compared to AW). The scary thing is, CoF is supposed to be absurd and it makes more sense than the "serious" movie. The characters do some really stupid things in CoF, but it's supposed to be that way because the characters are really stupid! In AW, we're supposed to believe that intelligent human beings are making these decisions :confused: .

I want to watch CoF again (which says something right there ;) ) before I make a final assessment, but after watching it once and thinking about it some, I like it! Somehow the jumping back and forth in time and in and out of different characters' points of view ends up making a complete story, and also letting us into at least some of the characters' psyches a bit (especially when the scenes don't agree).

I've found that the "thinking about it afterward" that I've done the last day or so makes me even more positive about it, which is why I want to go back and watch it again--to see if the movie itself lives up to how I remember it (if that makes any sense :confused: ). The feeling I've ended up with is that these entirely absurd, out in left field characters are more true to life than the characters Hollywood usually gives us. They may end up handling their inner dilemmas in [very] strange ways, but their inner dilemmas are pretty recognizable--to me, at least :rolleyes: .

Some months back, when I was hunting up online reviews of CoF, it seemed that each reviewer either really liked it or really disliked it--there wasn't any in-between. What I saw then as the dividing line was whether the reviewer liked or hated dark comedy--which this movie definitely has. Now I might refine that a bit, and say that IMHO to really enjoy this movie it's necessary to be able to see the realities of life that the dark comedy ultra-exaggerates. Like any kind of absurd/surreal comedy, in order for it to be funny you have to recognize the truth behind it.

As an example: One thing I was unsure about going into this movie was what my reaction would be to its use of suicide as a plot device, since I can be fairly sensitive to how that's portrayed. It was actually used more pervasively than I expected it to be, but I also found that it didn't bother me--because it's not really "played for laughs." By the end of the movie, it's kind of become something that binds these strange people together and gives them a basis for understanding each other (a couple of characters mention having "this whole parental suicide thing" in common). I found myself recognizing a lot of these characters from support groups I've been in, and after thinking about it they didn't seem all that bizarre. We'll see what I think of them after watching the movie again :) .

As far as Elijah's character, I can't think of much more to say than that he's one that fits all of what I've said above. (I wish we would have gotten just one more retelling of the senator story before we got the truth--I wanted to see what the next level would have been :p . For those who haven't seen the movie, I don't think it's too much of a spoiler to explain that Elijah's character tells this story several times, and each time we watch a flashback to the event--the first time we see him being fairly good at what he's doing, the second time we see him elevated to action-hero mode... :D )

As far as things people might find objectionable: There's some bad language but nothing like AW. There's some violence (some of it a bit bizarre), but not a whole lot. There's quite a bit of partial nudity (underwear level), and a bit of fuller nudity that's actually in a Playboy that one of the characters is reading. We do get a brief glimpse of a lesbian sexual encounter (the camera angle doesn't show any nudity, but it's very obvious what's going on).

For anyone who does watch the movie, don't turn it off too early--after it looks like the movie is over, there's a fishing scene that not only shows a "happy ending" for a few of the characters, but is also [i]so true to the spirit of the entire movie that (IMHO) it was wonderful! :) I watched all the way through the credits to see if there were any more scenes like that, and there weren't. So as soon as the fishing scene's over, it's "safe" to turn it off without watching all the credits ;) .


---------------------

Luthiea--You're getting CoF on DVD? Will I be completely envious if I find out what extras are on it :( ?

Now, Paradise is almost at the bottom of my EJW movie list--but a lot of people like it more than I do. I think it was just too hard for me to get past Don and Melanie's listless (to put it kindly) acting. But Elijah and Thora Birch do help it some.

Tg, there is no extra material on the CoF DVD except the movie trailer. Come to think of it, the film has only been seen in movie theatres in Sweden, if at all - so no great need for that trailer......

I worried that you would mind the repeated suicide theme, but hoped that from the previsous discussions here about the film, you were informed that it was there beforehand.

I must admit to really liking CoF myself, it's a great dark-dark comedy, one of those films I can easily watch and laugh at again (and again) - but with the murder and suicide theme it's not exactly everyone's cup of tea. I'm certain it *can* be seen as offensive.....

But honestly I think my hearty laughs are not directed at the characters and dire situations, it's more laughing with them, at all the total absurdities and difficulties and disappointments of their lives. And the film does sport an impressively varied group of total morons and losers muddling through life as best they can, with problems and quirks and depressions and hang-ups and unique character traits a-plenty......

The language, such as it is, and the "near-nudity" isn't within any range to ever worry or annoy your average Scandinavian, that's for sure.

I really like Elijah's Mikey-the-would-be-hitman. Those extreme puppy-dog eyes as he's searching for a friend and for sympathy in the middle of hitman activities..... He's such a cutie. I love all his scenes. (And of course, that's one film where he really gets to display some impressive agility, especially in that shoot-out in the hospital scene and probably also in the second version of the senator murder.)

I just realized that apart from TTT, CoF was is the last new EJW film I've seen, and that was half a year ago and more. :( I wish I could somehow get hold of a new film that I haven't seen yet.


Lacking that, I must admit that I've started resorting to RotK speculation already. :o For one thing, I'm wondering how Shelob will look. John Howe has one rather scary drawing on his site, but somehow I think *this* spider version seems way too limber and agile and fast, not quite heavy and bulky enough?

http://www.john-howe.com/portfolio/gallery/details.php?image_id=80&sessionid=4058877e0397a8a9f7ee296f5da51b44

Also, the discussion over in the Green Dragon has made me wonder exactly *when* in RotK we will get to hear and see Elijah do the "Wheel of Fire" speech. It's a *must*, it has to be there, doesn't it, (It has to! It has to! You hear me, PJ?), - it even got Elijah the role! But I'm thinking with the New!Stronger!Movie!Ring! they may well have shifted it forward, to earlier in the story, even as early as CU.......

Enough with the totally pointless speculation, I suppose. :rolleyes:


Welcome back, Estella Rose and King Lamoni, and to all the Faculty: I hope you're having a good weekend! :)

I'll admit I'm quite concerned about Shelob. How is PJ going to create a giant spider that will be believable AND terrifying for an audience that has grown up with monster movies, to the point that anything resembling a "giant spider" could risk being more laughable than horrifying? The LAST thing I want to hear is tittering when Shelob emerges. Then again, those giant spiders in "Eight-Legged Freaks" were pretty horrible and not-funny, and that WAS a comedy!

SPOILERS FOR "THE WAR:"

I finally saw "The War," and Elijah was, of course, fantastic. It amazes me that a 13-year-old kid could wring such emotion out of himself...HOW DOES HE DO THAT?? I've also noticed that his gestures are always very natural and so subtle that you never feel like he's acting...little things, like the way he pats Billy Lipnicki on the chest after his near-drowning, the way he puts his arm around his mother at the end.

However, the movie as a whole was not the greatest. It was one of those movies that seemed so formulaic, and I felt like I was being smacked over the head with "THE POINT." As in...oh "The War" between the kids mirrors "The War" in Vietnam, and so war just winds up destroying things and hiding the REAL things that are worth fighting for blahblahblah, yes I get it.

It was predictable in a tearjerky way...the minute Kevin Costner mentioned his new job, I knew it was going to be trouble, just like I knew cute l'il goofily innocent ice cream-eatin' Billy, as the only half-decent Lipnicki, was going to be involved in some tragedy or near-tragedy, just like I knew they were going to get that house in the end (and how on EARTH are they ever going to afford to make that place fit to live in? Or pay the property taxes on it? Or even pay the dingy-dang-ding-dong oil bill on that big place? Hmmmm?) Now, I LOVE that kid Lucas Black, who played the nastiest little Lipnicki, and that is one child actor I wish we'd see more of (although he's probably about 17 by now, so not really a child!). However, Christine Baranski was utterly unbelievable as the racist Southern belle schoolmarm, and that whole classroom scene was so heavy-handed and seemed to come from out of left field and then go nowhere at all, meaning nothing to the rest of the film.

One thing the movie did do, or at least its Southern setting, was made me wish they had done a remake of "To Kill a Mockingbird" while Elijah was that age, because he would have made a great Jem Finch, even though it's a pretty small part. I always had kind of a crush on Jem Finch.

He was played by this kid:

http://mockingbird.chebucto.org/alford.html

in the original 1962 film.

END "THE WAR" SPOILERS."

Maeglian - I must say I do agree with you about Shelob in that John Howe illustration. I imagine her to be MUCH more bulky and fearsome-looking than that!

Tg - I looked in on your site last night, and I loved the Huck Finn caps from the fishing scene and your insight into Huck's emotions there. I can't wait to get the DVD - I really WILL be ordering it soon! In fact I liked that little set of caps so much I made a little gif of them - I'll post it here if you don't mind, Tg, but will wait for your OK, seeing that you did all the hard work!

Interesting talk of EW's newer films, though I really don't think 'Ash Wednesday' sounds like my cup of tea. I can put up with bad language to some extent, ie in 'The Faculty,' but really when it's every other word it just puts me off the whole film. I watched 'Black and White' because Elijah was in it, and NOTHING would compel me to watch it again - I hated it. It's only redeeming qualities were Elijah - who LOOKED very nice, thank you, although he did seem out of his depth, and Robert Downey Jnr - who stole the whole film for me.

Ariel - it's lovely to see you here again. It's been a long time without our resident Angst-maven. And welcome back Estella-rose and King Lamoni.

Hi Luthiea - thanks for the reminder about 'Paradise' on Sunday here in the UK. I hadn't noticed that, but my video will definitley be set to tape it - any EW film I haven't yet seen deserves at least one viewing!

Thanks for the nice words about the little gifs I posted. Deluby, I could never hope to match you - how do you manage to host the amount you produce? I finally upgraded my account at Imagemagician because it's so easy to use, but those gifs do take up a lot of space. I'm trying to keep mine smallish. I've got the Gif-bug at the moment, but don't know how long it will last as the animation software we have is only a 30-day trial - after that, who knows?

Anyway, I can't resist posting a couple now. I'll try linking to them to save on KD's 'space'. I don't think deluby has put one up of this scene from 'The Fellowship' extended DVD. It's one of my favourites - Elijah plays Frodo's uncertainty and apprehension perfectly after Gandalf's line, 'The Fellowship awaits the Ringbearer.'

http://www.imagemagician.com/images/blossom/Ringbearer2.gif

and:


http://www.imagemagician.com/images/blossom/Ringbearer3.gif

Goodnight all.

Robert Downey Jr. was the only watchable thing in Black and White. Elijah has nothing to do 95 percent of the time. And the other 5 percent was just a waste of time.

Black and White... while I think someone had good intentions somewhere in that mess..... is simply one of the most vile movies I've ever seen. If they had a message to convey it is lost in all the pointless filth.

But since Robert Downey Jr. was mentioned he is the one other current actor whose talent is on a par with Elijah's. He is so imminently watchable and can convey vast amounts of emotion without words in a similar way. As everyone says.. too bad about his 'problem' and I for one sure hope he can really overcome it because he is too good to waste his life that way. And I'd love to see he and Elijah in a good film together.

Of course it helps that I had a dream with Robert Downey Jr. last night..... not naughty but...nice.;) Sorry Lij..sometimes these things just happen.

Posted by Sheryl
Is the first avatar from a publicity shot? And where is the April 1 laughing Fro avatar from? Dragon fireworks?Yup, The first one is from a publicity shot, unfortunately the version I have is no bigger than the avatar itself. :rolleyes: The happy Fro is from firework scene with Bilbo.
http://members.lycos.co.uk/duckycc/frodobilbo02.jpg


Hi Luthiea, Estella and King Lamoni, Welcome back! And thank you KL for reminding me of the pic in erendis' avatar. FOTR is the only place to find happy Fro. :(
Since erendis haven't post the larger version, here's the wallpaper size (800*600) version of it if anyone's interested.

http://members.lycos.co.uk/duckycc/frodo018.jpg


And here's another one.

http://members.lycos.co.uk/duckycc/frodo063.jpg


Posted by Tgshaw
---------deluby, just a thought for the compilation disk: what would you think of including the opening flashback scene and the scene in the van from AW? IMHO, those are the only two worthwhile acting scenes Elijah has. Or, if there's not room for both, just the scene in the van, which is less than a minute long. The flashback scene is interesting and we get some camera-eye-views of Elijah we don't see often, but there's really not much acting involved. Err, don't trout me but I haven't seen AW yet. :eek: :o With all the reviews I've read and knowing that there're pretty intensive use of bad laguage, I wasn't so eager to watch it. But I know the scene you are talking about and I think it's a great idea to put the worthy scenes in the disc. That way we don't have to sit through the whole movie again and again just to see his part. I'll pick it up when I go rent that cartoon. (no, don't worry, I assure you non of that cartoon stuff will end up on the disc. :p )


posted by Maeglian
For one thing, I'm wondering how Shelob will look. John Howe has one rather scary drawing on his site, but somehow I think *this* spider version seems way too limber and agile and fast, not quite heavy and bulky enough?Remember this pic?
http://members.lycos.co.uk/duckycc/shelob.jpg
We don't know if they end up using that model but at least it's a possibilily. Look at that huge belly. :eek:


Blossom, great job again! It does get a little addictive doesn't it? ;) The ringbearer ones are great. I actually screencapped that sequence but never got around to do it, they've been sitting in my "unfinished" folder for months. :o

Another one of those geek picture ainon posted few days ago. (from A&F)
http://members.lycos.co.uk/duckycc/cast281.jpg
:D :D

Thank you for the warm welcome back. It actually makes me feel really special that you can even remember who I am! :o:o:o

Spiders: Yo. Big arachnophobe over here:( . I couldn't even bear to watch the trailers for the 8 legged freaks, and I found the HP II scenes which featured these beasties highly disturbing. I've no idea how I will cope with this scene in ROTK, because not only will it put my worst nightmare up on a big screen in full living colour, it will combine it with such a moment of angst and sadness...

But, yes, she has to be more than just a big creepy-crawly - she has to be something which makes you genuinely frightened without you even being able to seeing her. That is the remarkable thing about that whole journey through that tunnel - the palpable fear, the sense of horror which Frodo and Sam have to struggle against.

(You can do it, PJ, yes you can...)

Ainon: :k You don't know how guilty I've felt over the last few months, not doing the Witness screen caps for you. I really am sorry about that. I'm glad to see you have then now :rolleyes:

tgshaw: I've checked my copy of the Chain of Fools DVD - no extras there. There's just a static cast list (which doesn't mention Elijah Wood), and the theatrical trailer.

I hope everyone enjoys the week ahead!

For Shelob I think less would be more.

Like the first Alien movie, which scared me silly, you didn't see the whole alien monster till the last few scenes.. just some drooling ugly alien teeth and their...erm... results.

Shelob in the book is not totally seen till much of the action has taken place. Just the suggestion of her potent evil... Those many evil hungering eyes... a smear of slime.... hints of hairy arachnid limbs ...in the dark,rank, foul-smelling tunnel.......

Hey.. that's all PJ needs till the money shot of the whole big nasty spider.

Blossom, thanks so much for the gifs of the moment when the Fellowship leaves Rivendell. That is one of my favorite moments in the EE of FoTR. I agree with you that there is some powerful acting going on there, with not a word spoken. That so much is riding on those small shoulders is expressed so beautifully in that scene. And it makes the moment on Caradhras when Frodo has to decide for Moria so much more powerful.

Ohh, Shelob speculation... can't go there. Just that shot of Fro with the phial amidst cobwebs gives me the creeps. Let us hope that PJ's mantra that "special effects shouldn't outweigh the story" holds true for this scene. :(

Given such topics, what a delight to be able to look at Happy!Fro!

Just droping off something for Sheryl. ;) :k

http://members.lycos.co.uk/duckycc/thewar.gif

Sorry about the poor quality though.:o

deluby - LOL at that 'Stu' gif. That's the moment when he says, 'Pleeeaaase,' isn't it? I'm hoping to get some 'War' gifs in before my animation software expires, but my sister-in-law has borrowed the DVD. I must get it back!

Yes, peaceweaver, that leaving Rivendell scene gets me everytime too. Frodo's whole demeanour there just touches my heart. He looks so vulnerable, as if he's just realised the enormity of the immense burden he has taken on. A very poignant little scene, I think.

erendis and deluby - I love that happpy Fro pic.


Hobmom - I agree with your take on how the Shelob scenes should be done in ROTK. We need to FEEL her presence before we see her. I can't wait to see our favourite brave little hobbit face HER down!

We need to FEEL her presence before we see her.
Oh, yes; - and we need to *hear* her. Black, stifling claustrophobic darkness, and then a gurgling, bubbling noise and a venomous drawn-out hiss. (Shudders) And then, after the light of the phial shines out; - those enormous clustered eyes reflecting in the darkness.......
I am not an arachnophobe, luckily, but my stomach does serious backflips just thinking about how well and utterly, totally frightening this scene could be handled, nonetheless.


I love all the gifs! Thank you! I enjoy them immensely. :)


I just noted that Always and Forever have posted several pictures from that Tattoo shop when (some of?) the Fellowship went to get their "9" tattoos. So take a look over there! Very intent gazes from EJW and OB there.... (Hmmm. those pics would interest all Sean Bean admirers too, I'm very sure.) Strange that these pics do not surface until now?

Deluby- Great Stu 'Pleeease!' GIF. All those sassy expressions on that sweet little face!

Blossom- You actually loan out your Lij movies? Hmnn ..Novel idea.;)

Maeg- Ah yes, those slimey gurgling Shelob noises. Must have them in the dank darkness. That whole sequence is one of the best parts of the book for me. And I know PJ loves this kind of stuff so I have high expectations for this scene in the movie.

Not much to add except that I hope, too, that PJ can "control himself" to give us a less-is-more Shelob presence. There should be something a little "mystical" about her, for want of a better word--after all, she's not just a humongous spider, she's a descendant of Ungoliant.

Blossom--by all means, gif away :p -- with the fishing scene or any other caps I post that lend themselves to it. As is obvious, I don't know how to make anything move, so would love to have someone do so.

Just a few more shots of Mikey II:

http://www.imagemagician.com/images/tgshaw/CoE/cap5825.jpg

http://www.imagemagician.com/images/tgshaw/CoE/cap5832.jpg

http://www.imagemagician.com/images/tgshaw/CoE/cap5847.jpg

I'm loaning the VCD to someone at work (remember the guy who "accidentally" watched the last hour of FotR in the video store and then borrowed the DVD from me ;) ?). He just loaned me Office Space, which I'm hoping to watch in the next day or two, so I'm kind of returning the favor (one of Elijah's favorite movies, which, of course, I had to tell him :rolleyes: ). In any case, Office Space and CofF seem to go along with a similar taste in movies, so I think he'll like CofF (and it'll let him see Elijah in a very different role).

Hi Faculty! :)

Would anyone mind refreshing my memory on the current state of "release" for Chain of Fools? It's not at the "widely available" level yet, is it? *hopehope* I really want to see it, especially after all those clips that were available ages ago. (Those Senator Dove flashbacks- *hilarious!*)

On all the Shelob talk...I agree!
I found this Alan Lee picture which shows a bit of Shelob, which is a possibility for design as well. Though it *is* a lot scarier than the John Howe one, it seems a bit too spiky for me. I was looking for the one with the *actual* fight between Shelob and Sam, but couldn't find it. Maybe it isn't by Howe or Lee. I'll keep looking anyway.

Keep up the great work! (((Faculty)))

Tg- Great CHOF caps. How does Elijah manage to make himself look so dumb? A la Mikey/GED? It's all in how he controls those facial muscles. He's amazing!

Daisy- That's a wonderful Alan Lee illustration. It looks like it could be one for the movie. That little running Frodo looks a lot like Elijah. And there's the appropriately spikey, spidery legs and a hint of Shelob's gross distended belly. I think it's a movie prototype.

Somehow I can't see PJ doing an *understated* Shelob - you know how much he loves his blood and gore (Dead Marches - which I loved but were NOT understated).

Though can I ask that ROTK speculation and pictures be kept to a minimum - at least for a while (or clearly marked). I'm going to try *really* hard to stay spoiler free this year, and it is only April.

Re Paradise: I didn't see it yesterday, but I had seen it before - actually one of only three movies that I'd seen pre-LotR, and I have to say that even then I liked it a lot. No, DJ and MG are not my favourite people in the world, but they're not quite so awful in this movie as they can be, and even back then I thought Elijah and Thora were two cuties!

I got to see TTT again this weekend - forty mile round trip just to see it - but it was worth it. Still some things bug me about it (M&P's orcs should have been a lot scarier - we were talking about this earlier and I hope they don't play Gorbag and Shagrat for laughs the way the did with M&P's orcs), but still a lot of fun. I'm loving Faramir's scenes better every time, though I never had a problem with them to start with.

Edit: I was watching the BBC at the weekend and they'r conducting a survey on the nation's favourite books. Anybody who wishes to vote to ensure the right book gets to number one :) should go to www.bbc.co.uk/bigread

"Lovers" of TT&T - beware! :eek:
TORn is citing Ananova in stating that EJW has signed up for another lead role in a cartoon; this time a Warner Bros animation called Happy Feet about a young penguin's adventure in Antarctica.

It'll supposedly be recorded in 2005. Do they really sign up actors 2 years in advance for animated movies? Then again, the same report claims Elijah will next be working on Ash Wednesday. :confused:


the Alan Lee illustration

Daisy, nice to see you posting here! The Alan Lee illustration dates back to 1991, but PJ&Co. may well have used it for the movies, as they've done with other "older" Lee and Howe illustrations. Especially that scenery, with the dark mountain sides and the road with the tiny figure with a sword glowing blue, and the dark tower with the top window glowing red; - it wouldn't surprise me if we see something very similar to that in the film.
I agree with EE; - I hardly believe PJ will downplay all the horror film possibilities of Shelob's Lair. Quite the opposite, knowing his films so far.


Missing magazine quote?

Remember some time ago, a "Starburst" magazine was mentioned that apparently had a long Gollum-focused article and quoted EJW about the Ring caressing scene etc. That has never turned up to be read or quoted online, has it? I think TORn asked for it some time back, too, without success. Or did I just miss it while I was away? (I hope I did!) If so could someone *please* direct me to where there's info about it?


The Henneth Anun interrogation scene

Another question: I noted over at CoE that one of the RotK threads say that the Havens was the last scene EJW and SA filmed together in principal filming, citing AICN. I thought the blue screened Hanneth Anun scene was the last th two of them did (with the same source backing *that* up).
ainon, you're the expert on that; - which one is right?

Every time I've watched TTT, when the film reaches HA I've been thinking how *that* was their last scene filmed together..... (sniff), and by the way, every time I see that scene I've been wondering more at the choices made in filming it. It's so very, very obviously blue screen, perhaps the most obvious blue screen there is in the entire trilogy to date. Why does Faramir carry out his interrogation while his men is "parading" back and forth just behind the hobbits? Is it to confuse them and make them feel insecure and small in the middle of so much big people hustle and bustle? I must admit I find the scene set-up with all the background activity a bit...... unnecessary and confusing, it steals some attention from the main characters, and shouldn't there be more noise from all these people marching about? OK, so we get to see the waterfall, and the men are silent Ithilien rangers going about their post-battle chores, but still....

Anyway, it's been more than 2 months since I saw TTT in the cinema, so perhaps I'm just not really remembering it well anymore. :(

Elijah as a Penguin? Now that sounds kind of cute to me. Let's hope WB doesn't make a mess of it. They ARE the studio of Bugs Bunny and Pinky and the Brain and my personal mascot Slappy the Squirrel. Not sure whether that's good or bad but I always liked their cartoons.

Where's Ainon?

Maybe I can answer some of those questions.

I THINK the Havens was the last scene Lij and Sean shot for principle filming. Henneth Anun was the final shot in the reshoots for TTT last summer.

Not sure though.

Originally posted by Maeglian
The Henneth Anun interrogation scene

Another question: I noted over at CoE that one of the RotK threads say that the Havens was the last scene EJW and SA filmed together in principal filming, citing AICN. I thought the blue screened Hanneth Anun scene was the last th two of them did (with the same source backing *that* up). [/B]
th HA scene is the last scene shot between Wood and Astin, and was also Astin's last scene from principal photography (as per Harry's LOTR diaries). not sure where you read it in COE Maeglian, you sure it was stated as fact or as a guess/ wishlist? there's pretty good quantity of the latter in the threads, hence a compilation list here (http://www.council-of-elrond.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3411&perpage=30&pagenumber=1), to help folks not to get confused with what's fact and what's speculation.

Quoted by Hobmom:

Blossom- You actually loan out your Lij movies? Hmnn ..Novel idea.

Yes, but I do have a taped from TV copy of 'The War,' so I can pop in it whenever I get withdrawal symptoms!:)

Just a quick visit to post the link to Tg's Huck Finn fishing scene gif: http://www.imagemagician.com/images/blossom/Huckfishing.gif

Thanks, Tg.:)

I thought the Grey Havens were one of the first scenes to be filmed - because they needed Ian Holm there and he was only there for a few weeks of the filming .....?

Lovely gif Blossom. Keep 'em coming :)

Well, I'd trust WB with a cartoon over Disney any day--but do they make feature-length ones? BTW, wasn't there something in one of the DVD specials with Elijah talking like a penguin? Or did I imagine that :confused: ? Maybe the folks at WB saw it and were impressed :p .

A bit of CofF research: From frame-by-frame viewing of the scene in the hospital hallway, my conclusion is that the only time we could possibly be seeing anyone other than Elijah (i.e., a stuntman) is when the character is actually launching himself from the floor to go up over the gurney with the body on it. But when he's in the air going over the gurney, it's definitely Elijah. There's a cut right there that's at kind of a strange timing and angle that makes me guess the launch is someone else. But to be in the air over the gurney, Elijah had to launch (or be launched?) somehow--maybe the stuntman had better "form" for that bit? It's Elijah who turns in the air and goes down behind the gurney--as well as doing all the running, slipping, sliding around corners, falling, getting back up, running into people at the right time, turning and firing, leading up to that. It's only during that one moment of launching that we see the character from behind with a cut before and after. :cool: :cool: Agility, speed, timing--not bad. But he was 17 then--could he do the same kind of stuff now that he's an "old man"? ;)

Regarding Hobmom's "dumb as a stick" comments about Mikey II--I actually didn't think he looked quite so dumb in those serious shots. IMHO, if you want really dumb, as in amazing acting dumb, you have to catch him when he's happy or excited. Here are a couple from when he's talking to the main character in his bathroom (asking inappropriate questions at an extremely inappropriate time :rolleyes: ). The first one is when he's just about ready to burst out with something, the second while he's speaking. The first one looked so familiar--it took me a couple of seconds to realize how much it resembles peaceweaver's goofy avatar (but, in this case, the character's not trying to look goofy--he actually is :p !) The camera angle emphasizes it a bit in the second one, I think...

http://www.imagemagician.com/images/tgshaw/CoE/cap5945.jpg

http://www.imagemagician.com/images/tgshaw/CoE/cap5936.jpg

Blossom--thanks for the Huck gif. If there's anything else you want to use that I've posted, go ahead :) ! There are lots of possibilities from FotR in the Friends/Mellon (http://www.members.tripod.com/afewwords_tgs/id83.htm) section of my website (hint, hint ;) ).

Hey Faculty! Catching up ...

Blossom and deluby - thank you, thank you, thank you! Marvelous gif goodies. And great screencaps of dumb Mikey there, tg. :D

Before I forget, there's this one moment in 'The War': At the end of scene where Stu and Lidia hug each other, and Stu's done his little speech about his dad and all, we get a wide shot of the siblings huddled together, hugging -- and a beam of light falls on Stu. I guess that can count as Froshadowy.


Originally posted by Maeglian
It'll supposedly be recorded in 2005. Do they really sign up actors 2 years in advance for animated movies? Then again, the same report claims Elijah will next be working on Ash Wednesday. :confused:

For all animated features and shows, the voice recordings are done first, and the animators then work based on whatever the voice actors had done. From this quote I haven't the faintest clue what they mean by 'to be recorded in 2005'. Released in 2005 might make some sense. So I echo your :confused:

WB has ventured into feature length animation, but can't recall if there's been any great success. Btw, the animated film that shall not be named wasn't produced by Disney. It was produced by Miramax (http://us.imdb.com/Companies?0185143). Make of that what you will. :o

Missing magazine quote?
Remember some time ago, a "Starburst" magazine was mentioned that apparently had a long Gollum-focused article and quoted EJW about the Ring caressing scene etc. That has never turned up to be read or quoted online, has it?

No, it hasn't. :(

Every time I've watched TTT, when the film reaches HA I've been thinking how *that* was their last scene filmed together..... (sniff), and by the way, every time I see that scene I've been wondering more at the choices made in filming it. It's so very, very obviously blue screen, perhaps the most obvious blue screen there is in the entire trilogy to date. Why does Faramir carry out his interrogation while his men is "parading" back and forth just behind the hobbits? Is it to confuse them and make them feel insecure and small in the middle of so much big people hustle and bustle? I must admit I find the scene set-up with all the background activity a bit...... unnecessary and confusing, it steals some attention from the main characters, and shouldn't there be more noise from all these people marching about? OK, so we get to see the waterfall, and the men are silent Ithilien rangers going about their post-battle chores, but still....

It's funny, until someone mentioned that the blue screen here was obvious I never noticed it. And usually I would! I've seen worse though, but if you've missed them then I won't mention it. ;) But coming back to the HA scene - personally I thought it's pretty seamless. But I guess now we know how all these tricks are done, so spotting the two hobbits that way, we know that that could have only been achieved by blue screen, so the magic is lost. At least that was what happened in my case, once it was pointed out to me as a negative thing. :p

I don't know if there has to be a reason for Faramir's men to be walking about, other than that they've got better things to do than stand around eavesdropping on their captain. :p Just as in the book, once they're all in HA, the regular men don't pay that much attention to the hobbits anyway.

Anyway, LEK's answered the filming time question. (:k LEK) I'd also add that unless further info comes along, it can be assumed that the Haven scenes were all filmed while Ian Holm was present in NZ (like Eyrie said, he had a tight schedule) and at a point in time when the relationship between Gandalf and Pippin in the movies had not yet progressed beyond the 'Fool of a Took' stage. That probably puts the filming of Havens somewhere in the early or middle stages of principle photography. Which means Elijah was doing Frodo saying good bye to Middle Earth when he might not yet have done Frodo saving Middle Earth. Cool.

I'm getting a sudden sense of deja vu. Didn't I dig up this info already, just a couple of months ago for this thread? Sorry if I'm repeating myself! We really, really need more news, NOW!



Btw, this isn't exactly speculation, but could be, so I'm marking it as such anyway:

mild speculation

Dangermouse and I were talking about TTT, and she made this great observation: that right here at the top of this movie we're shown the terrible effect the Eye has on Frodo. That brief glimpse was bad enough to give him a heart attack (and a nice cute cheekpuff). Imagine what the effect will be on him in RotK, when that's pretty much all he sees, awake or asleep, without ever a moment of respite. :(

Gratuitous AngstyFrodo screencap to go with that, from the www.classicxf.com site -

http://www.classicxf.com/images/TTT/emynmuil/circles054.jpg

WB has ventured into feature length animation, but can't recall if there's been any great success.

The only WB Cartoon that I know of is the Anastasia one - you know the one with Meg Ryan and John Cusask as the leads' voices. I suppose that had moderate success but big successes recently like Toy Story and Shrek have inspired all the studios to try their hand at animation.

ainon, yes, you did mention the HA-as-last-scene info some months back, that was what I remembered vividly, and so was confused when I read something else in a credible setting. Never mind, thank you ainon, LEK, hobmom for clearing that one up once more. :)

I wasn't wondering why Faramir's men are traipsing about, but why Faramir carries out his interrogation in the middle of a crowd and with a splashing waterfall as backdrop, seeing that there were more quiet places such as storage-caverns around. Not that I'm complaining, I like the HA Faramir scenes more and more (and more. ;) )

Mild speculation too....
*
*
Ainon, speculation in line with yours and Dangermouse's was the reason why I pondered whether the Wheel of Fire speech might have been shiftet forward in RotK. Given some interview statements EJW has made about Frodo's state towards the end of the quest, and the strong effect of the FimRing...... will he be able to even *voice* the Ring's effect on his mind coherently at the point when they reach Mt. Doom? And since Bridget pointed out that he actually tells Sam that he tries to remember places in the Shire, but fails to do so, as early as CU, the scriptwriters would be fully justified in having him say something like that at any time from CU and onwards.

It's going to be chilling, no matter what.


*
*
End mild speculation


Tg, thank you for those Mikey II-as-doofus pictures. I'd forgotten just how utterly stupid he manages to look there.


I just finished reading "the Ice Storm" novel. I have some comments to that (Surprise! :rolleyes: ) but I'll have to revert a little later, I'll edit it in here if noone else posts in the meantime.

Hey folks :)

I read about the penguin project on teletext this morning - sounds interesting :D I think it's meant to be a CG animation? Let's hope it's better than TT&T is rumoured to be!

I watched Paradise even though it was on later than it was supposed to be cos of the motor racing :rolleyes: I thought it was quite good! Elijah and Thora Birch were v cute. But it ended quite weird, meaning that Melanie Griffith and Don Johnson's characters were suddenly back together just like that! Hmm.

I don't know about goofy, tg but I think he looks a bit psychotic in that second pic you posted! :eek: :D I've still to watch COF, am on Easter break so will do so soon.

Hey Bloss! Thanks for that gif of likkle Huck!

Deluby - I like that one, the irksome little brother! :)

Oh yeah I can't wait to see Shelob, I could practically smell her when I was reading TCOMS! Yuck.

Hugs,

L :)

Originally posted by Tg:

Blossom--thanks for the Huck gif. If there's anything else you want to use that I've posted, go ahead ! There are lots of possibilities from FotR in the Friends/Mellon section of my website (hint, hint ).

You've done it now, Tg. No time tonight - have to be up at 2.30am!:eek: But expect new gifs courtesy of your wonderful screencap sequences very soon!:) :) :)
And thanks for those CofF pics, Tg. He does look a little mad there! Nice to know that EW did his own stunts. Did you say he was 17 when he filmed this - so it was pre-Frodo? He must have done 'The Faculty' around that time too I would guess.

Hi Luthiea - I taped 'Paradise' and watched it on Monday evening. Not as bad as I thought it was going to be. Elijah was as endearing as ever, though I 'saw' little Michael from 'Avalon' emerge now and then - same haircut, but a little older.

Ainon - I also dread to think what effect the Eye will have on Frodo in ROTK. Angst heaven for Ariel!

On that thought Blossom totters off to bed. 'Night all.:)

From Blossom
But expect new gifs courtesy of your wonderful screencap sequences very soon!
I think I'd like to start hinting myself. Tg has this *wonderful* page of caps called "leaving"....... :o


The Ice Storm, book and movie comments and spoilers!!


I just finished reading ”the Ice Storm”, the 1994 novel by Rick Moody, so of course can’t refrain from making some comments. :)

I think Ang Lee’s film is very faithful to the book and its characters, themes and story. The book is equally depressing and disturbing as the film, and with the same open-endedness although it makes it clear that the Hood family split up. It must have been quite a challenge to adapt the book to film, especially since much of the earlier part of the book is narrative summary of previous occurrences and characters thinking about past events.


Character portrayal

I also think that 7 of the 8 main characters of the book are presented quite faithfully in the film, although some adaptions and alterations have of course been made. Especially the kids, Wendy and Paul Hood, and the younger Carver boy. They are drawn more clearly and with additional scenes in the film than the book, I believe, but faithfully to the book characters nonetheless. The big exception is Mikey. In the book, although he’s described just as much as the others, I still think it’s difficult to get a good impression of him. Perhaps I’m just too influenced by FilmMikey. Well, he seems relatively nondescript and normal in the book (in the context of the rest of the goings-on there, at least). Frankly from a first read-through I got the impression he’s basically being established in terms of his relation to the other characters, and then he dies so all the other characters can be shown reacting to his death. There is no “molecules” speech, no “perfect space” speech in the book, and his utter joy and recklessness in the ice storm seems enhanced and emphasized in the film. In the book he didn’t seem like such a spaced-out strange boy living with most of his mind on some alternate plane.

It certainly seems to me, as has been mentioned previously, that Ang Lee made efforts to show what makes Mikey tick, and to ensure he comes across as real and quite unique. The way EJW portrays him in the film he’s one-of-a–kind, someone that the audience can certainly relate to but hardly understand, yet his death becomes a tragedy in its own right. I am even *more* impressed with FilmMikey now that I’ve read the book. He continues to be one of my absolute favourite Elijah roles.


Death realism?

Oh, and do you remember how we discussed the realism in the post death scene, whether Rigor Mortis should have set in by the time Mikey’s body is found? What we (fortunately) forgot to discuss then was the realism in the portrayal of the actual moment of death. The book doesn’t shirk away from that description though, and explains *thoroughly* what happens as the poor boy is electrocuted. :( I won’t go into details, but the film obviously didn’t opt for realism just there either, and I think we can be happy it didn’t.


LotR references

The novel seeks to give a picture of the white US upper middle classes in the early ‘70s, and the political, cultural, and social alterations that impacted and confused them so. On that background it’s truly surprising to see how many Tolkien references are spread throughout the book. A casual Ringwrait reference here, the names of Paul’s parakeets (Aragorn and Galadriel) there…… Both "the Hobbit" and "LotR" is mentioned in a list of books Elena has read to be in touch with the tenor of the times (many of the others are self-development and psychology books, not to mention all the books about sexuality that these characters seem to devour.) No wonder, really, that professor Tolkien was bewildered at LotR’s enormous success in that time and place.

And then, as Ben Hood is carrying Mikey’s body homewards through the ice-glazed landscape, the book gives the following description of his walk. I was quite surprised. This is the equivalent of a literary Froshadowing, isn't it?! …….The magic involved was not visible to the naked eye. There were no swords or orcs or dragons or elves or rings in this adventure, but it was magic anyway. Hood had been transformed on this Saturday morning from a self-pitying and disliked and hung-over securities analyst into, however briefly, an agent of sympathy. On the other hand, which life wasn’t heroic? Just living was heroic.

Oh, Maeg, what an interesting excerpt from the novel of The Ice Storm. I'm off to the library to look for it! You all continually enlighten, inform, and entertain me! :k

And a very quick Happy Birthday, Goldenberry!

Many happy returns of the day!

Maeg - whoa! Thanks for that wonderfully thorough book/movie 'Ice Storm' report! I doubt I'd ever find the book here, but before I read your report I didn't think I'd ever be interested in reading it anyway. :p Sounds like you've summarised the really important stuff, and I am especially glad to know that the right changes were made to benefit 'Ice Storm's Mikey. Just as an aside, I'm trying to figure out why the two parakeets would be named Aragorn and Galadriel ... uh, what would Arwen say to that?! :eek: :D

And err, yeah, I'd have to agree with you that there's a limit to how much you wanna learn about electrocutions. Besides, Stephen King's taught me everything I need to know. ;)


From warofthering.net -- some info about Elijah's Mumble. :)


Elijah Wood & George Miller Have Happy Feet

Director George Miller is embarking on an animated feature film for Warner Bros. Pictures/

Village Roadshow Pictures titled Happy Feet. The lead character will be voiced by Elijah Wood ("The Lord of the Rings" trilogy), says The Hollywood Reporter.

The CGI-animated project will be created in Australia, with a print expected to be delivered in late 2005. A release date will be set after that time. The project is a children's fable about a young penguin's adventure in Antarctica. Wood will voice Mumble, the young penguin.

The screenplay was written by Miller, John Collee, Warren Coleman and Judy Morris.

source (http://www.comingsoon.net/cgi-bin/archive/fullnews.cgi?newsid1049676491,72612,)



*hugs* to Luthiea. Nice that you and Blossom got to watch 'Paradise'. Cute little tyke he was. Annoying ending, but he was still cute. Eyrie - do you get the same channel too?

(btw, Blossom, I second Maeg's hint above ... but of course *after* you've had your rest. 2.30 am wake-up time?!)


And a quick wave to Daisy and estella rose -- just keep delurking, okay? :k


Happy Birthday, Goldenberry!

http://maggiebear.crosswinds.net/fellowship01/lotr003.jpg

taking advantage of this joyous occassion to gratuitously post one of my most favourite LOTR pics, courtesy of http://maggiebear.crosswinds.net ;)

Hi,

{{{ainon}}}


I just popped in to say -

HAPPY BIRTHDAY GOLDIE!!!

That's it! :D

x

Me too! HAPPY BIRTHDAY GOLDIE, I mean! :) :) :)

Happy birthday, Goldie!!
Looking forward to seeing you here again when you return! :)

I wondered at first about the names of the Ice Storm parakeets too, but then it struck me that; - d'oh - of course! It's symbolic, you know. Since everyone else in the book messes around with the wrong person(s), why should the parakeets be any different? :D

Originally posted by Maeglian
I wondered at first about the names of the Ice Storm parakeets too, but then it struck me that; - d'oh - of course! It's symbolic, you know. Since everyone else in the book messes around with the wrong person(s), why should the parakeets be any different? :D
Of course! That has to be it!! :D :D

Just dropping in to say that I've sent a message to the one person who had any comments posted about Day-O at IMDb. (He's named Mike and lives in Australia--anyone know him :p ?) Of course, the message was asking him if he knows of any way to get hold of a copy of the movie. His review was very positive. --If it can only be gotten in his part of the world, we may have to delegate someone ;) .

And an on-the-right-date Happy Birthday, Goldie, if you happen to be peeking in :) .

Happy Birthday, Goldie!


Hmmm, actually, in this case, it should be:

Happy Birthday,
Goldie!

:D

I enjoyed your book report on the Ice Storm, Maeglian. :) Particularly your analysis of the parakeet names. :p

Hi, Daisy!
I think your CoF question got lost in the shuffle (or maybe I just missed the response), but, nope, it's still not widely available. Hubby downloaded a copy off the Internet a while back. If you want to PM me I could copy it for you sometime.

Hi, Lutheia!

Peaceweaver,
Are you back home? Or just have a good library system where you're at?

And that's all my weary brain can come up with tonight, although I know there's been interesting discussion going on lately. Not up to processing anything I guess.

Sheryl

Hello.

Just popping in to post the gifs I made from Tg's brilliant series of screencaps on her website. Tg - I can't begin to tell you how much time and effort you have saved me!:k Thanks for letting me use them.

I'm sure most here will have visited Tg's site at some time, but it's really worth a look in there to read her take on the scenes - some wonderful observations and appreciation of Frodo's emotions and Elijah's acting!

Here are the links:

2 Ring-bearers:
http://www.imagemagician.com/images/blossom/2Ring-bearers.gif

Packing:
http://www.imagemagician.com/images/blossom/packing.gif

Packing that shirt:
http://www.imagemagician.com/images/blossom/shirt.gif

Packing that cloak:
http://www.imagemagician.com/images/blossom/cloak.gif

And especially for Maeglian and Ainon - :)

Leaving:
http://www.imagemagician.com/images/blossom/Leaving.gif

I know my gifs tend to be on the small side, but they take up so much space on imagemagician. I don't know how deluby does it!!!:confused: :)

Anyway, I hope you enjoy them.

btw, Maeglian - great book/film review of 'The Ice Storm.' I'm glad Mikey's death scene wasn't as graphic as described in the book, too. I haven't read it, but it's interesting to know there are references to Lotr in there.

Elijah voicing a penguin!!! Actually, if his Spice Girls' impression is anything to go by, he should be pretty good!:)

:k to all.

Blossom, big :k for posting such lovely gifs. Veeery nice....

Don't mean to be contrary, but I am *not* excited about the news about Elwood as Mumbles the penguin. :rolleyes: The last animated project he was connected to was an utter waste of time and talent. I have no faith in Warner Brothers. I hope if this is true, it will result in such a big payday that he can start that record label he's been talking about.

Hi Sheryl! Actually I am still on the road (it is a travelling seminar with some of my students), so I don't have access to my local library. And the bookstores here don't seem to be much help. :( So it may be that I don't get to read the Ice Storm for a while yet.

But I am plotting to see TTT again, this weekend. Subtitles and all!

WooHoo! gifs! Thank you, Blossom. :k I'm downloading them all now. Btw, I meant to ask, you shared Ringbearer2.gif and Ringbearer3.gif with us, and I am ever so grateful, but I'm so curious to know what Ringbearer1.gif might have been? ;)


Originally posted by Maeglian
Since everyone else in the book messes around with the wrong person(s), why should the parakeets be any different?

Ewwwwwwwwww!!!!!! :p :D

Originally posted by peaceweaver
But I am plotting to see TTT again, this weekend. Subtitles and all!

Subtitles and all, huh? Just where are you, peaceweaver? Or are we talking about TTT from special sources? Ehem. :D

Brief off-topic comment: was watching 'Apollo 13' on TV, and realised once again that that was one fine movie. I never watched 'A Beautiful Mind', but I'll have to say Ron Howard deserved the belated Oscar win.


Good luck with your Day-O search, tg!

And take care, Sheryl :k

Ariel,
I'll make you a deal. You do cliff notes for me of the Harem, and I'll do them for you of the Faculty. ;) Although actually I've been keeping up with the Harem pretty well lately (love the alphabet poems).

What are cliff notes, anyhow? I mean, I've seen them (yellow binder, I think?), never looked them over. A quick summary?

deluby,
I forgot to thank you for posting that "Please" from the War. :o Thank you. :) I love that clip. I particularly like how he's all serious before, and just plasters on that totally fakey face. :cool: He's serious right after, too, but I think it's in the background and not the same shot - then he sincerely laughs a bit later. I really need to get me my own copy of the War, I do.

I'm with elda in thinking Lucas Black was something - I particularly liked the bit when he's behind the ladder and his big brother is trying to convince him to swim across - he looks down at the water, totally unnerved, then turns on the charm and asks his brother if he's afraid. Great stuff. Or have I mis-connected the Lipnicky actors and characters again?

Oddly enough, of all the kids I think I found the girl who played Lidia least convincing - particularly the scene where she's telling Stu that their father could already be dead. As a rule she did a good job, I thought, but every once in a while I just didn't buy it.

Originally posted by tgshaw
[regarding CoF] There's a cut right there that's at kind of a strange timing and angle that makes me guess the launch is someone else. But to be in the air over the gurney, Elijah had to launch (or be launched?) somehow--maybe the stuntman had better "form" for that bit?

I haven't watched that bit in a while, but I wonder if EW used a spring board to get high enough. So it might be him doing the launch, but they cut it oddly to hide the fact that he actually used a board.

After all the discussion we've had on the verbal clarity of EW's performance as Frodo (wasn't it erendis who did the "EW to save the day" bit with the Black Gate scene?), it's funny to think of him playing a character named "Mumble." "Mumble" is also the name of a poster to another board I frequent, I hope I don't start seeing *that* Mumble as a penguin now...

I feel a little better today than I have been - maybe that new allergy medicine will actually make summer bearable for once. :eek: Hard to imagine dealing with summer while actually feeling fully awake and healthy.

Sheryl

p.s.
Hi, ainon. ;)

Sheryl

Originally posted by peaceweaver
Don't mean to be contrary, but I am *not* excited about the news about Elwood as Mumbles the penguin. :rolleyes: The last animated project he was connected to was an utter waste of time and talent. I have no faith in Warner Brothers.
My faith depends on which part of Warner Brothers is doing the job. If it's the bunch that gave us Pepe LePew, Marvin the Martian, the Animaniacs and Pinky and the Brain, I'd probably line up for tickets! If it's from anyone else... :rolleyes: . Even the first bunch isn't the same without Chuck Jones and Mel Blanc :( , but they still seem to put out some good cartoons/characters. (And if Mel Blanc was on the job, they wouldn't have had to hire any other voices ;) .) Does anyone know anything about George Miller or Village Roadshow Pictures?

I'll save my contrariness for The Ice Storm book. I really didn't like it. I'm very glad Mikey was completely reinvented for the movie!

BTW, regarding the other animated project--it was distributed by Buena Vista Home Entertainment, which is part of the Disney hegemony. I don't know if being produced by Miramax fits in there somewhere or not--it's gotten too hard to remember who owns who anymore :confused: !

But I am plotting to see TTT again, this weekend. Subtitles and all!
TTT's moved to the second run theaters here. Did it without missing a beat, just like FotR, closing at its final first-run theater one night and opening at the two second-run theaters the next day. But--and a fairly important "but" IMHO--it made the jump well over a month sooner than FotR did.

-------

Daisy--Another option for Chain of Fools is to order the VCD from yesasia.com (if you don't mind the Chinese subtitles :rolleyes: ). It really worked out well for me.

-------

Sheryl--glad the new medicine seems to be helping.

I'm feeling totally fuzzy-brained and tired--and probably will for some time yet, but the only allergies involved are to "doing" my income taxes and trying to get someone at the medical billing agency to explain what my statement actually means.

Blossom--thanks for the gifs! I don't know how much longer you'll have the software, but there's another set of screencaps I'd love to have you work your magic on--but I don't have them posted at this point, and I really should finish filing my income taxes before I do something like that... should, yes... should.

Asked by TG:
Does anyone know anything about George Miller or Village Roadshow Pictures?

Don't know anything about Village Roadshow, but I know of two Australian directors named George Miller. One I don't know much about since he's mostly worked on small Australian pictures. HOWEVER, the other George Miller that I know is the fabulous creator of such geek classics as "Mad Max," the utterly brilliant "The Road Warrior" and its not-quite-so-brilliant third installment "Mad Max Beyond Thunderdome" (Off-topic Geek Sidebar: Bruce Spence, who played the Gyro Captain in "The Road Warrior" and also starred in "Thunderdome" is playing the Mouth of Sauron in RoTK. What a glorious time to be a geek!) This George Miller also directed "Dead Calm," "The Witches of Eastwick" and the fantastic "Babe."

If it is this George Miller, then that's kind of interesting, because years ago, after seeing "Babe," I recall thinking that if anyone could ever make LoTR into a movie, it would be him because he has a knack for doing both heart-stopping action and heart-touching drama with a strong element of fantasy. Funny how the project eventually fell to another filmmaker from that "down under" neck of the woods. However, it would be almost a shame to think of him doing an animated picture, since he has such a strong and intensely watchable style as a director, and anyone who can manage to put post-Apocalyptic biker gangs and the world's most adorable sheep-herding piglet on film in one career is someone who should be doing live-action stuff!

Well now if it's the 'Babe' George Miller this would then show Elijah's fine taste in choosing good directors to work with. Let's hope that's who the director really is. And I also love 'Dead Calm'... one of the best 'maniac stalking isolated couple' movies ever.

But all in all I'd rather see Elijah doing a real rather than animated role.

I understand that the production company for Happy Feet is Kennedy/Miller, which means it is the George Miller of Mad Max, Babe and Dead Calm (plus a number of other excellent mini-series and movies) fame. Judy Morris is also a well-known actress and screenwriter.

Tg, I've had a quick look around to see if I can locate Dayo here. No luck so far, I'm afraid, but I'll keep looking.

:)

...because Sheryl was bugging me about it, and heck, she's sick, I'll humor her.;) (((Sheryl)))

It's pretty long, does include spoilers and does not include any stunning insights on Elijah's performance.:o (Big surprise.) So I'm just linking it: (EDIT: Oh, and if for some inexplicable reason you actually liked the movie, you might want to skip this...:o )

Ash Wednesday review...reaction...thing (http://www.livejournal.com/users/culurien/29641.html)

Elijah as a cartoon penguin?! Oh dear. That's worse than Sean Astin in an Adam Sandler movie...:o ;)

((((Faculty))))

ainon - your wish is my command!:)

Here is the link to Ringbearer1. It's a very short gif - Frodo's initial reaction to Gandalf's 'The Fellowship awaits the Ringbearer.' - just before he turns in Ringbearer2.

http://www.imagemagician.com/images/blossom/Ringbearer1.gif

Tg, I'm on day 23 of a 30 day trial on the animation software. If you can drag yourself away from your tax forms - :eek: - during the next week or so, I'd love to oblige you with gifs of your new screencaps. :) I know what I must do - price up the animation software at PC World - it's just that I'm afraid to do it!!!

As deluby said, it's quite addictive once you start on the gifs, but I've almost used my space up at imagemagician (and I'm paying for it now - :( ) I think I'll have to have a look at some alternative image-hosting sites (preferably freebies) as a back-up.

I also hope this 'penguin thingy' EW is planning to do turns out to be a quality project. Talent like his should not be wasted!

Bye.

Just wanted to say thank you to Blossom for the lovely gifs. :) And since I’m here, I’ll just drop off this earthy little embodiment (I love the brown tones). :cool:


http://overthebrandywine.com/A1/LOTR/Frodo/Frodo2/drawing.jpg

Well, I must say that the information that EW's penguin project will be done by the maker of Babe and other quality films is certainly heartening. I wonder, though, when they say "animation" do they mean Bugs Bunny type animation or Shrek-type animation? You know, the computer-modeled stuff? If so, does that mean that Mumbles will *look* something like Elwood--the way Shrek was modeled on Mike Myers, or Donkey on Eddie Murphy? Can you imagine: a penguin with huge blue eyes? :D

ainon--I would (cough) *never* attempt to obtain unauthorized copies of these films, not that I know where one could. :confused: No, I am in Greece at the moment. And here films are shown in their original language with Greek :eek: subtitles.

(I wouldn't bother to go to a dubbed movie, because much of my enjoyment of EW's Frodo is the timbre of his voice. )

Ezzie: what a lovely image! Is it a photomanipulation of a still?

Eldalieva--Being a geek is never ever a bad thing, viz:

Gregory Peck quipped once that the talking pig from Babe was the only modern film hero he could imagine playing. On the other hand, EJW said in an interview that Gregory Peck was a true film hero (unlike modern macho caricatures). So now the aspiring true man EJW joins Babe's producer George Miller. The nagging question is whether Mumble will play the banjo :D

Well, I'm really glad to hear that this penguin movie will be a Kennedy/Miller production. I wonder if it's going to be FULL animation or if it will be combined live action/animation...after all, parts of "Babe" were animated, although it didn't look like it. I think that little Greek chorus of singing mice was animation.

And I'm sure the geek cred of working with the creator of the Mad Max trilogy is not lost on our favorite geekboy. And from what I've ever read about George Miller, he just seems to be an incredibly cool, humble and very not-Hollywood kind of guy. Sort of like PJ but quite a bit less kinetic. (Off topic, but wasn't Mel Gibson also in talks with George Miller about doing a fourth Mad Max movie? I don't know how that would work...I don't think even the intrepid Max would have lived to be that old in a post-apocalyptic wasteland.)

In reply to a few things brought up by tgshaw:

I searched a few Australian DVD internet sales sites, and couldn't find anything about Day-O. Chain of Fools is widely available on these Oz sites, and it seems that most of them will ship DVDs overseas. However the DVDs will be all Region 4 (i.e., South Pacific countries), so you'll only be able to view them if you have a Region 4 player or an all-regions player. (BTW, if anyone wants to risk it, I understand that it's actually quite easy for a repair technician to convert a "Region X only" player to an "all region" player, but doing it can void the warranty on your machine. I don't think this has anything to do with the likelihood of the procedure damaging the machine -- it's to do with corporations trying to keep a strangle-hold on regional distribution of their product.)

Elda beat me to it with the info about George Miller, but I can tell you that Village Roadshow is a large Australian media/entertainment company that has ties to Warner Bros.

Originally posted by Gladys
I searched a few Australian DVD internet sales sites, and couldn't find anything about Day-O. Chain of Fools is widely available on these Oz sites, and it seems that most of them will ship DVDs overseas. However the DVDs will be all Region 4 (i.e., South Pacific countries), so you'll only be able to view them if you have a Region 4 player or an all-regions player.

That's the one advantage of the VCD over the DVD--it doesn't matter what region you're in. It can't do all the lovely things a DVD can do (scene choice, etc.)--but it does do screencaps :cool: !

I've checked on my DVD drive, and it "legally" allows four Region changes within the life of the drive--after that I suppose you'd need the alteration Gladys mentioned. I think the four changes are to allow someone to move somewhere else in the world and still be able to use that drive, but to not allow them to change it back and forth whenever they want to. I might consider using a "legal" change for a movie I really wanted to see once--but "really wanted to see" and "once" are an oxymoron, at least for me :p .

I'm not actually expecting to find Day-o--at least not commercially. Wondering if the person who reviewed it at IMDb had a recorded-off-TV version, since it was a made-for-TV movie (haven't heard back from said person, BTW). It would certainly be a coup to find a copy! (If Delta Burke's not too busy with her clothing line, do you think she'd dig up a source for a bunch of people who are huge fans of the person she said would "own Hollywood some day"? ;) )

You never know, though, if we keep our eyes open... Thanks to Gladys and all who've been watching for it.

Regarding the question about what type of animation the penguin movie would be--the description ainon posted said it would be CGI, but I don't think it said if the entire movie would be animated, or just part of it. I'm guessing something along the Shrek lines as far as the animation.

There was more I was going to respond to, but I just got told I have to go over to the other side of campus to pick up some signed grant forms, so will have to leave :( . (It's a beautiful day for that mile-or-so-one-way walk, though :) .)

I read on one of those movie links somewhere that the Penguin movie will be computer animation a la Shrek. So that's cool. It's beginning to sound better all the time.

Elijah admires Gregory Peck. Very cool! If there's any actor who even comes close to conveying that 'certain something' the way Lij does its Mr. Peck. Especially in the movie "Spellbound" made back in the forties when Greg was about Lij's age and super gorgeous as well. It's SOOO angstey and Greg did angst the way Lij does angst. He looks so beautifully lost and sad that you just wanna scoop him up and make all the bad stuff go away.

Now I have to rummage around for my tape of "Spellbound" and watch it again.

And 'hint..hint'.... somebody should do a remake of that film with Elijah in the Gregory Peck role. Please, Hollywood,please!!!!! Will somebody in LALA land get a brain and use Elijah in roles that he can do something with!!!!!

Much I wanted to comment on but it’s one of those grey rainy days and I’m much more interested in sleep than work or posting… however! I did have a few things I wanted to share.

1. Shelob speculation – Very strongly agree that PJ will not give us Shelob!lite – I fully expect her to be chilling and very well played. I am not really worried about Shelob – but I am awfully worried about Frodo’s confrontation with her. Its probably PJ’s last chance to show Frodo’s other strength (and I know, for a lot of you it was not important that his courage was not more obviously presented) and I am terrified that PJ will opt for playing down Frodo’s incredible bravery at that scene. I know it seems like that would be stupid – but I also thought there was no way we would lose Frodo being diplomatic and worldly with Faramir :rolleyes:

2. Newsflash for those who are/were/might be worried that Arwen will somehow show up at the Grey Havens. I had an epiphany the other day (a rare if not unknown occurrence) and realized that in PJ’s films, Galadriel has already said her goodbyes to Aragorn. She has told him in no uncertain terms that they will not meet again. I thought this was pretty cold of her – since it meant that she would not be coming to her own granddaughter’s wedding – but it also has another meaning that I have just come to appreciate.

It seems very unlikely that Arwen would show up at the Grey Havens without her husband, and since we know Galadriel will never see him again, that seems to me to very strongly confirm that she will not be there. I have been having a ball projecting what might happen in ROTK based on what we’ve already seen – and feel pretty confident of both that and my theory about how Frodo remembers about the phial.

Thanks to those who welcomed me back… (:k Blossom, Sheryl). I don’t often have much new to offer, but I do like reading this thread.

Just got through my first viewing of Oliver Twist. My, he was cute… and though I giggled hysterically at his first attempt at a cockney (was that what that was supposed to be? :p) he did look rather darling. I just adored that scene where Bill has him up against the wall and you get the full impact of The Eyes (the true meaning of the term ‘Elijah blue’ hehehe)… I don’t have a really good copy to view, but that would be a wonderful scene to screen cap. :D Now I have only to get my hands on Try Seventeen, Dayo and (perhaps) that cartoon that shall not be named and I will have seen his entire body of work! Obsessed? Nah… well, maybe a little.

I had OT playing when my husband came home and, naturally, he walks by just in time for a big close up. He has, of course, long since conceded that I am Nuts™ and just rolled his eyes at me. :p

Edit: OH! Almost forgot! I have a film goodie that I never noticed before. I can’t believe I (of ALL people!) never noticed this…

http://www.frodosharem.org/Pics/Flydown.jpg

Now that shows guts. You have to admire someone who continue to act so flawlessly while millions of people all over the world see him with his fly down?

:rolleyes: Sorry if I am slow. You guys probably either noted that a long time ago or deigned it too lowbrow to mention. I think I was always more affected by how appealing the rest of him looks in that scene to notice it! :p Although, you have to agree, it IS perfectly in character for Mikey...

Ariel

Originally quoted by Ariel:
Now that shows guts. You have to admire someone who continue to act so flawlessly while millions of people all over the world see him with his fly down?

LOL, Ariel!:eek: Of course I had not noticed that before - too busy looking at the beautiful face.;)

Originally quoted by Ariel:
I had OT playing when my husband came home and, naturally, he walks by just in time for a big close up. He has, of course, long since conceded that I am Nuts™ and just rolled his eyes at me.

My hubby has much the same reaction!:rolleyes: :)

I haven't seen Oliver Twist yet - don't think it's available in the UK - but I'm slowly working my way through Elijah's films.

Re Shelob. I just keep that ROTK teaser pic of Courageous Fro with Phial in mind, and trust to hope!

Ezzie, that picture of Frolijah is stunning! It IS a drawing, isn't it? Do you know who the artisit is? Thanks so much for sharing it with us.

Hello Peaceweaver - hope you are enjoying Greece. I bet it's warmer there than it is here. We had a fall of snow in some areas of the UK yesterday - brrr!!

Bye.

Ariel- Honestly I never noticed that about that Mikey scene before either! Boy, you sure do know where to look!;) That poor kid... and I mean mostly Mikey. It is SO in character for him to walk around all day and never know that his fly is open. Lij on the other hand would probably realize it much sooner unless he was doing it for a joke. But considering that this was a classy film and director I wonder if they did that on purpose because Mikey is so often off in his own world and would be clueless about a thing like that.


NOW I have to hunt for both my tapes of "Spell Bound" and "Ice Storm". I know where "Ice Storm" is but not sure where "Spell Bound" has gotten to.

Thought I'd add a couple of Spellbound pics. For gorgeous actor comparison. I hope this comes in! Is it just me or are there a lot of similarities between Mr. Peck and Elwood in some of these pics?
http://www.meredy.com/peck4.jpg

Originally posted by Hobmom
But considering that this was a classy film and director I wonder if they did that on purpose because Mikey is so often off in his own world and would be clueless about a thing like that.
Oh, Hobmom, I have absolutely no doubt that it was done on purpose--among Elijah, Ang Lee, Elijah's mom who was still on the set for every movie he made at that time... to say nothing of wardrobe people or crew... someone would have caught it. It's just a perfect touch for Mikey--IIRC, that's the scene where he (Mikey, that is) shows his marvelous skill :rolleyes: at football (American, that is). So it would fit the scene especially well. It also says something sad about Mikey, don't you think, that none of the kids he's playing football with mention it to him--or even take it as an opportunity to harass him?

And, Ariel, I never noticed it either--but, then, the pic you posted is bigger than my tiny TV screen :o . Could see his face and hands much better there, too--looks just right for a cold November day in New England. Thanks. :) I'm looking forward to finding out what I can see on the DVD (much better viewing, even though my computer monitor is the same size as my TV screen :rolleyes: ).

But, as far as I know, Oliver Twist has never been available on DVD :( . (It's being made-for-TV might have something to do with that.) So to get screencaps someone would have to have some way to "translate" it, or be able to perform the mysterious magic (to me) of screencapping a video :) . Any pics I've found from that movie have been at Star Galaxy/Gallery.

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Hobmom--just saw the Spellbound pics. I'd pick the bottom-row on the right for beautiful angst, and the bottom-row middle for just plain beautiful :p . Hmmm... If we're going to start talking about remakes of old movies... Will have to think about that... so many possibilities... :cool: And, interestingly, the first ones that come to my mind are Hitchcock films, too--but I seem to go more the direction of Jimmy Stewart: Rear Window, The Man Who Knew Too Much, Rope. And, I think I've said before, I'd love to see Elijah in JS's role in Harvey--not much angst, but IMHO it'd be great fun (and they could get Bruce Willis to do a cameo as an inside joke for those who've suffered through... errr... I mean, enjoyed North :p ).

Oh, I was most certain their costume department did do that on purpose! That's the scene where the 'girl' sees him in 'all his glory' - hehehehe. My admiration came from the fact that here was a 15 year old boy who was willing to purposefully put himself on screen with his fly open for all eternity! At that age most boys are pretty self conscious - It just took "ahem" to do that.. he heheh.

*blush*

I guess fewer people caught that than I thought! Should I be proud or embarrassed that I did? :o

Putting my purely analytical faculty hat on for a moment, I have to confess that sequence always did make me feel extremely uncomfortable for Mikey - and I know I didn't consciously note the fly before. Was that perhaps a bit of subliminal suggestion or minute detail that Ang Lee put into his film? Like the sequence after they find Mikey and he is brought back to his father's house. Notice how you never get a clear look at Mikey again. It's as if he has become part of the furniture - a prop - not an actor. It is a chilling piece of filmwork that really reinforces the concept that this character is dead...

Yes, twisted and hard to watch as that film is in places, it is skillfuly done - you can't deny it.

Ariel

Ariel-
I guess fewer people caught that than I thought! Should I be proud or embarrassed that I did?

Let's just say that this is your specialty.:D Hey..somebody has to do it.;)

As for Ice Storm.. It is a painful but excellent film. I think that's the film that really put Elijah on the map, so to speak. It moved him up from being just a good child actor into the ranks of good actor of any age. He is so different from Mikey yet he became that poor sad lost character and as always we can totally believe his portrayal. Again we ask..How does he do that?

I also think it's an important film for parents to watch especially those who think their kids are 'just fine' even though the families are falling apart. Kids don't miss a thing and they feel the pain much more acutely than adults do. Paying a bit more attention to our kids could make a huge difference in what happens to them.

Anyway that's why I like Ice Storm.

Also isn't it that film that Fran Walsh had seen and so told PJ not to ignore Elijah's audition tape because she said Elijah had an "interesting face"?


As for the Gregory Peck pics. The middle and bottom rows are the ones that ARE the most Lijish.

Now if only someone would start giving him parts like that.

Blossom, thank you. :k Looking forward to your joint production with tgshaw! Btw tg -- original VCD for Oliver Twist is available here. You want?

Hobmom - whoa! Very nice Lijish stuff you got there! I've never seen a young Gregory Peck movie - at least, none that I can immediately remember. I did spend years wanting to get my hands on To Kill A Mockingbird because I just knew he had to be most perfect Atticus Finch. I think I'll swoon for young Gregory Peck. ;)

Originally posted by Ariel
It seems very unlikely that Arwen would show up at the Grey Havens without her husband, and since we know Galadriel will never see him again, that seems to me to very strongly confirm that she will not be there. I have been having a ball projecting what might happen in ROTK based on what we’ve already seen – and feel pretty confident of both that and my theory about how Frodo remembers about the phial.

What?! You say that and then you don't tell us what your theory is??!! I like the little clue given by Galadriel in FotR, and I am wondering who will remember that clue first, the audience or Frodo. Haven't speculated yet *how* Frodo will remember. So come on, Ariel. Spill. :)

I'm so hobbitcentric that I probably wouldn't even notice or care if Arwen showed up at the Grey Havens. :D Actually I wonder how that little rumour came up. What'd be the point, after all, to have her go through another heartwrenching separation with her family, when she's already begun her new life with Aragorn. To get back on topic, well, sorta, aside from your points I'd also add that both Ian McKellen and Billy Boyd have given rough accounts of filming the Grey Havens scene and no mention was made of Liv Tyler/Arwen. It's not evidence, but McKellen hasn't been remarkable in keeping secrets when he starts to blab. :p

Nice fly catch, btw. ;) I never noticed it either. Looking elsewhere, you know. :o Great new points about Mikey. tg, that point about how no one even cares about the fly is just too :( Poor Mikey.

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Hope you're having a fine time in Greece, peaceweaver! How many rows of subtitles are there in Greece? Still don't think any country can beat ours here :p -- two languages squeezed into the bottom frame; three languages if someone starts talking Elvish! I was always this close to throwing a fit during FotR's great FrodoAngst scenes in the troll glade because his face would be obscured every time!


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Ezzie - thank you for that Frodo drawing (?). It's lovely.

Thanks all, for the positive info about George Miller. Meanwhile, this is an (unrelated) article about the geek himself: Hobbit Rocks It (http://image1ex.villagephotos.com/2154348.jpg)

And I thought these made for a nice comparison:

13-year-old EW: http://always.ejwsites.net/images/randomh01.jpg

And adult EW: http://always.ejwsites.net/images/randomh02.jpg

Please copy and paste the URLs into the address bar of your browser. The Always&Forever site won't allow direct links.


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Last but not least, reminder from Elve: she's planning to revamp frodoandsam.net soon. Some images will be taken down, new ones put up. Anyone who wants the current crop of images from her site please go save them now. :k Elve

From Hobmom
Also isn't it that film that Fran Walsh had seen and so told PJ not to ignore Elijah's audition tape because she said Elijah had an "interesting face"? Yes indeed it is, Hobmom. That's one of the reasons why I love his Mikey Carver role so much. Imagine if Fran Walsh hadn't seen that and said that, would PJ still have watched the tape at once? Anyway she's very right, of course. He *has* an interesting face.

That's one reason why I love the FotR Riverbank scene so much. Thank you for the gif, Blossom! :)
(OK, so the word "beauty" has something to do with it too, I won't deny that. I have a hard time reconciling that recent EJW ultra-geek picture that surfaced to the Frodo look, I will tell you.) And the colouring in that scene, and in one of the Rivendell scenes, just amazes me no end. They're so beautiful and subdued and so right! Did you all notice the muted turquoise on the Rivendell buidlings behind Frodo and Bilbo when they're looking at Bilbo's book, and talking about adventures? It complements EJW's eyes perfectly.... And the browns......
I could go on and on about the colours alone. But I'll shut up about this now and move right along.


Ariel (((Hugs))) - I certainly hadn't noticed that fly thing either, you have sharp eyes! Like everyone else, I suppose I'm simply too busy watching his face. :o And of course it *must* have been intentional. One of those "little things" that make the character work so well even if we don't consciously register it all.

But then, he does get up to other very embarassing scenes in the Ice Storm too, which must have taken lots of acting courage. And on that note, I must agree with you, tg, it's not easy to *like* the Ice Storm novel. It's; - interesting, perhaps, certainly thoughtprovoking, very depressing. It makes its points by exaggerating and compressing trends and events. Yet, I think the activity that those kids engage in, which is spelled out much more clearly and directly in the book than in the film, is disturbing. They are only 14 years old. (The younger Carver boy is just 13). So, they *are* mimicking their parents and the trends of the time, but still...... It has been written to make the reader uncomfortable, and it certainly succeeds in doing so.

Speculation
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*
Oh, and yes, Ariel: Let me second ainon right away - please spill any theories! Phial and otherwise!
Anyone who can convince me Arwen won't be at the Havens will have much thanks. Seeing how the films so far have built the Arwen/Elrond relationship, I have certainly believed that she'll be there and that all the goodbyes will be spoken at once, including hers. But it's a good point about Galadriel's words to Aragorn. I must admit I've wondered whether those were a blooper, because I'd absolutely have expected Galadriel to be at the wedding, too. Is it known that Cate Blanchett wasn't there when they filmed the wedding and celebrations? But then, she wasn't there for the Grey Havens either, was she. I'll have to rephrase. Is it known that Arwen's father and grandparents won't be present at her wedding? Seems strange to me, if so.

*

End speculation such as it was


Enjoy Greece, Peaceweaver! :)


Ezzie, that picture is beautiful. Is it an original drawing?


Sheryl, I hope you're feeling better. :)


Bridget, thank you and LOL at your Ash Wednesday review! Very direct and from the heart, and the most important message got across load and clear. (Too much of the one guy, far too little of the other one who keeps us all hanging around here....)


Thanks to various people for the info about the people and companies behind "Happy Feet". I certainly loved "Babe"!
This one had me smiling:from Peaceweaver
I wonder, though, when they say "animation" do they mean Bugs Bunny type animation or Shrek-type animation? You know, the computer-modeled stuff? If so, does that mean that Mumbles will *look* something like Elwood--the way Shrek was modeled on Mike Myers, or Donkey on Eddie Murphy?Based on this and earlier posts I suddenly had this intense vision of Elijah in a Serkis-like motion capture suit, out to portray the little penguin faithfully to name and species: Diving headfirst down icy slopes, waddling about while flapping his arms from the elbows down, all the while mumbling quickly and very high-pitchedly (And imitating Shakira instead of the Spice Girls, to boot): "Lucky that my lips not only mumble...." Better not continue that sentence. Well, I *am* in a funny mood today! :rolleyes:

Hope everyone's having a good weekend! :)

Originally posted by ainon
I'm so hobbitcentric that I probably wouldn't even notice or care if Arwen showed up at the Grey Havens. :D Actually I wonder how that little rumour came up.
The guilty party raises her hand...

That was just a bit of speculation (from when I was trying to figure out where the heck PJ was going with his Elves departing SL). And it's always been spread amongst hobbit-centrics as "wouldn't it just suck if Arwen showed up at the Grey Havens and took the focus away from Frodo's departure?"

I hope that she stays at Minas Tirith where she belongs, but then she hasn't stayed in the Appendices where she belongs either. :p

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You know, the Mumbles movie sounds like it will come out about when my kid will be old enough to be watching animated movies. I hope it's as good as the Toy Story or Monsters Inc movies... or if not, I hope Elijah's performance is enjoyable enough that I won't mind memorizing the whole thing like my sister has had to do with Toy Story...

Mel

Gregory Peck and Elijah all in one thread. This place has a lot of class! Mind if I sit it?

Mr. Wood has an incredible amount of skill and tons of acting ahead of him. I can't wait to see what he does next!

Oooo! Gregory Peck! Now THERE was a nice little slice of manflesh! I also had a soft spot for Jimmy Cagney. I was always a sucker for the protagonist who dies in the end. What can I say? I have been an angst maven my whole life.

Wasn’t there another post above? I could have sworn there was one deleted – but I can’t recall who it was by…. Hmmm.

I posted this in one of the ROTK threads but I can definitely understand how someone might not get around to reading more than a few threads.

Anyway, one of my biggest beefs with TTT has been the way they have taken most of Frodo's really good take charge moments and given them to Sam - (how did Boromir die, where they are going, etc.) while at the same time taking any errors Sam might have made (letting word of the ring slip) away. It really seems Sam's character is being beefed up at the expense of both Frodo and Faramir. I ended up, at the end of TTT feeling that the way the film was presented that the smart thing to do would be for Faramir to take the ring and give it to Sam since Frodo was in no condition to get it to Mt. Doom anyway.

As I was contemplating the ways that PJ could redeem his Frodo in my eyes, I realized that the only opportunity that he realistically has to do this is in Shelob's Lair. Now, as you know, in the book, Sam is the one who remembers that the phial is in Frodo's pocket (something I always thought of as odd since Sam hasn't seen it in quite a while and Frodo just used it to chase off the influence of the WiKi!) but if PJ has him do that it would just really be the last straw. It would, IMHO, make Frodo look even more like a loser and he and Sam would start looking more like Jeeves and Wooster than Tolkien's classic duo. Anyway, it also occurred to me that PJ's Frodo looks as if he receives his gift alone - apart from the others, the same way Aragorn does. Sam has never overheard Galadriel’s words. Sure, Frodo could have told him, but that kind of detail is important enough that any filmmaker worth his salt would have shown that Sam knew this (and we know PJ is worth his salt). I surmise that Frodo himself will remember the Phial – and that it will probably be in a reminiscent voice over like we heard at Amon Hen.

In the course of film dynamics, this scenario would work – it and a brave show facing down Shelob would redeem a lot of what I feel PJ has done to my most beloved Frodo. You can, of course, see the desperation in my words, right?

Ariel

Ariel, I *hope* you’ll get your wish regarding the phial and the Shelob’s lair scene. It’s the sincere hope of many, of course, and with that Shelob’s lair calendar pic that was released, there’s good hope. (Crosses fingers.) Frodo certainly looks very determined (....yet frightened) there.

----------------

I remember reading your Jeeves and Wooster comparison back on the RotK thread too. :D And, well………based on those CoF pictures that tg posted a little while ago, EJW could certainly manage to pull off the no-brains-whatsoever look of Bertie Wooster to perfection. I could actually easily see him and SA do a J & W skit parodying Frodo and Sam. Along those lines, I’ll post the link to a picture, it’s pretty big so I’ll not include it in the thread. But first, the captions for the picture:

- "I do not ask you to come with me, Jeeves”.
-" I know, Mr. Wooster. I doubt even my bowler hat could help us in there.”

http://www.hatsharpening.com/j&w/display.php?image=photos/jeeves1.jpg&back=photos&whereabouts=4&title=Granada Promo Photo

I blame this entirely on the dearth of RotK pictures or information. The deprivation is making people do the strangest things! People are going looney, I tell’ya! :eek: (Even to the point of quoting Rankin /Bass!)
We need some new RotK goodies!! Pleeeaaase! :rolleyes:

Maeglian runs in panic from an expected hail of trouts……


PS: Hi, and welcome Terry! Never mind me, settle right in and make yourself comfortable discussing Elijah Wood! :)

Thanks for the welcome. Jeeves and Wooster. Ha! I can see the comparison....

I, too, am hoping for a strong Frodo scene in the Lair. I think we'll get it. PJ should know that people have been waiting for eons for this scene. At least I have. And I hate spiders! There's nothing better than a confrontation between a hero and a monster.

I'm not trivializing in any way... I just think that PJ will make this scene frightening and heroic. Or at least he'd better!

Speaking of a dearth of RoTK images.... when will that pesky trailer be out? I've been subjected to "Dumb and Ridiculously Dumb" trailers for 4 months!

Is there any truth to the rumor that an RoTK trailer will be attached to the "Matrix" sequel, coming out on May 15? If so, it's so early that it'll probably be one of those frustrating "teaser" trailers that just leave you panting for more!

A "Matrix" sequel AND an RoTK trailer? Once again, what a glorious time to be a geek!! But can I seriously handle my first glimpse of RoTK after the lethal butt-kicking that the "Matrix" is sure to put me through? Oy! The mind boggles!

Elda, you might "trust to hope" but I don't think you'll get it. From what I've read, I don't think we'll see the trailer attached to the "Matrix II". Sorry.

Oh, Ariel, I love the comparison between Movie!Frodo and Movie!Sam and Jeeves and Wooster! Wonderful and wacky! :D Maeg, are you writing the whole scene for us? :D

And those pictures of Gregory Peck don't do a body any harm either! ;) So did Peck win the Oscar for Mockingbird?

Hi Terry!

http://overthebrandywine.com/A1/LOTR/Frodo/Frodo2/drawing.jpg

Well, I labeled it as a drawing only cuz I haven't a clue to it's background, I found it in my travels on the 'net. There were other LOTR characters as well, but I thought the hobbits looked the best. They were probably Photoshopped somehow.

Sorry to post it twice, but it's kinda... nice. :p

Originally posted by Maeglian
- "I do not ask you to come with me, Jeeves”.
-" I know, Mr. Wooster. I doubt even my bowler hat could help us in there.”

ROTFLMAO!!!!

Oh, dear! says Ariel wiping tears of mirth from her eyes...

http://www.frodosharem.org/Pics/JandW.jpg http://www.frodosharem.org/Pics/FandSasJandW.jpg

That is possibly the funniest thing I have ever seen in my life! That is just the PERFECT caption for that pic! LOL!!! Again, Maeglian, you have completely undone me! Bravo! I second PW's request for the entire scene!

Yes, welcome, Terry! I hope you enjoy it here. (says Ariel a bit sheepishly considering she hasn't been around in aeons)

Yes, new pics or a trailer are definitely in order, but the last thing I heard was that it would be out midsummer. A frustratingly long time to wait but PJ knows by now that he has his audience. It's not a matter of selling the film any more. Even if TTT wasn't as much of a hit among the faithful as FOTR was, it isn't like we are NOT going to see ROTK!

Ariel

Welcome, Terry. Flydownboy, young Gregory Peck, and Ezzie's very nice 'drawing' all in one page. All we need to make this page undeniably perfect is a gratuitous angsty HoodedFrodo pic. Okay. Done. :)

http://www.classicxf.com/images/FOTR/extended1/426evmoria.jpg
http://www.classicxf.com


Thanks, Ariel. Now I remember that I did read that before, but since I don't know who Jeeves and Wooster are, I guess I just don't get it. :o Actually, I was imagining that you were gonna tell us exactly *how* Frodo will remember the phial - something nice and angsty maybe, as all other lights go out. ;)


Speculation (reply to Maeg)
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*

Is it known that Arwen's father and grandparents won't be present at her wedding? Seems strange to me, if so.

Arwen's wedding day is also the day she embraces her doom. She's truly going to forsake her family and her kind, and give up her Heaven, in exchange for a few fleeting mortal years with a Man who will die and leave her as bitterly alone as anyone could possibly be. Her family would have to be very hardy actors to pretend to be happy, then. Wouldn't it be better for all concerned if the bride's side avoided the ceremony altogether? :(

To answer your question - no, we don't know. Only clue is that Harry Knowles did not blow a haemorrhage while on set during the filming of the MT scenes; I'd expect him to if Cate Blanchett had appeared before him, or if he thought that he might have had a chance to stand in her presence but missed. :D


*
*
End speculation such as it was

mel headstrong
That was just a bit of speculation (from when I was trying to figure out where the heck PJ was going with his Elves departing SL). And it's always been spread amongst hobbit-centrics as "wouldn't it just suck if Arwen showed up at the Grey Havens and took the focus away from Frodo's departure?"

Mel! It was you?! :eek: :D Oh well, I'm a bit of a contrary hobbit-centric - sure I ignore her if she's in the presence of Frodo, but when she's in her own scenes I'm fine with it. Actually ... I really like those added Arwen scenes. <hangs head in shame> There I said it. While I'm on a confession spree I'll also admit to staring at Aragorn for overly long periods of time and getting all swoony. And feeling mighty happy that Fran Walsh and Philippa kindly gave Aragorn tonnes of angst that he never quite had in the books (much to my everlasting disappointment - with all the action Strider/Aragorn got into couldn't he have like, gotten himself bashed up five or so times? That would have made me reread Books 3 & 5!), which makes me want to watch more Aragorn scenes again. I place the blame squarely on PJ. If he'd just done three hours of hobbits, I wouldn't have this cross-fixation on other species. :p



So ... if Elijah's doing a penguin for an Australian - reckon he'll be doing an Australian accent? ;)

Thanks for the welcome all! Peaceweaver, Gregory Peck did win an Oscar for "To Kill a Mockingbird". It was a very good and controversial movie.

Ainon, Wooster and Jeeves is a British comedy about a titled man, Wooster, and his "gentelman's valet", Jeeves. It was a fun series filled with comedic scenes and the odd mystery or two. If I'm totally screwing up the premise of the show here, someone speak up. I've only seen an occasional episode and read only 1 or 2 of the books. (At least I think I've read some books...)

The characters from the comedy do seem to parallel the relationship with Sam and Frodo. And matching those two pictures with the caption was brilliant!

I'm also a little worried about Arwen's role in the RoTK. I hope PJ lets her get on with her intended marriage to Aragorn and keeps her out of the Grey Havens. He's already done some odd things.... But the Grey Havens should be Bilbo and Frodo's moment. Gosh. PJ will film the Grey Havens, won't he??! :eek:

He already has filmed the Havens, Terry. :cool:

Ezzie, that most certainly IS nice. :)

Originally posted by ainon
All we need to make this page undeniably perfect is a gratuitous angsty HoodedFrodo pic.
ainon--I believe that's the third time in the last few pages that you've used "gratuitous" and "Frodo pic" in the same sentence (Don't think I haven't noticed)--I believe that's an oxymoron in this thread...

Thanks, Ariel. Now I remember that I did read that before, but since I don't know who Jeeves and Wooster are, I guess I just don't get it. :o
About all you need to know is that Wooster (down in front in the pic) is an absolute inept doofus of a British gentleman who trips over his own feet and gets himself in over his head in all kinds of ways, and Jeeves is his trusty, faithful, and entirely efficient butler/manservant, who makes it possible for Wooster to function in the world and pulls him out when he gets in over his head. The comparison is a bit hard to avoid :rolleyes: ! But the pics side-by-side are :D :D ! [BTW, ainon, Jeeves has come into the language through things like the "Ask Jeeves" information finder on the Web--with the idea that Jeeves pretty much knew everything it was necessary to know--at least to keep his master alive and on his feet.]

Regarding possible RotK speculation





ainon, what you've said about the bride's side of the family staying away from the wedding would make some sense because of the changes that have been made in the movies--especially to Elrond! His attitude, of course, is completely different in the book--where he and Galadriel do come to the wedding. But movie-Elrond is a whole different Daddy than book-Elrond. I don't know about Grandma--I suppose it depends on how far she's come toward "What should be shall be."

My own speculation is that before his departure Daddy will somehow come to "accept things" --although not happily-- and realize that he "can't criticize what he can't understand... His sons and his daughter are beyond his command..." [ :o ...Many apologies to Bob. But, after all, the old Road is rapidly fading (for the Elves, that is :rolleyes: ).] I'm sure it will be extremely "touching," and I'm betting we'll see it--Tolkien had the courtesy to give them their farewell off-stage.


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Regarding PJ giving Frodo his rightful due in Shelob's lair--I certainly hope so, too, and perhaps even more importantly, I'm hoping we see a "Choices of Master Samwise" that's close enough to book canon to make it clear to Tolkien virgins why Sam shouldn't have been Ringbearer. I want to see Sam fall to the ground under the weight of the Ring as soon as he puts the chain around his neck. I want to see him face for a few moments the same power Frodo had to resist constantly for months, and give in by putting on the Ring "without thinking about it." (Hey, I miss those Ring-on mode special effects, anyway :) ). And I don't mean that to say anything "bad" about Sam--it's just the truth of the character as he was created, and in the role he was meant to play, which wasn't being Ring-bearer.

Actually, I wonder if part of Tolkien's purpose with that scene wasn't to show the reader--by using Sam's POV--what Frodo was up against, since, being the person he was created to be, Frodo didn't talk about it much. IMHO, if the moviegoer can get an "up close and personal" idea of how the Ring affects Sam, it will go a long way toward a better understanding of how Frodo changes as he crosses Mordor--even if those changes do go a somewhat different direction than they do in the book.




End re RotK speculations




I know the above makes me sound like a perfect curmudgeon of a book purist, and I guess that's how I'm feeling right now. OTOH, I'm in a renewed state of EJW awe, and I feel that if anyone can show the viewer what's truly going on inside Frodo, it's him. One of Elijah's first contacts with Frodo was through the "Ring of Fire" speech, and I'm hoping that became part of his subconcious, or wherever it is that he pulls those fully-formed characters of his from, so that even if the movie does things differently from the book we'll get a glimpse of the "real" Frodo there.

The "awe-inspiring" activity I did last night was try to decide what frames should be used (or, really, what frames could possibly be left out) if I were to try to give Blossom gif-material for what I still consider the greatest moment of acting in motion picture history--when Frodo turns toward Aragorn after Moria. I went through the whole scene frame-by-frame and was overwhelmed again by everyone's acting there. But Elijah's is just so much beyond anyone else...

In case anyone's interested :rolleyes: there are 469 frames from the first shot of Frodo in the distance to the cut to the next scene--and I looked at them all (without deciding which ones could be omitted). I started enlarging some on the screen. Noticed something, so enlarged the next one more... This may sound like the answer to a "How does he do it?" question, but IMHO it just pushes the question a step farther.

No matter how many times I see it, that look of complete nothingness when Frodo begins to turn takes my breath away. It's not grief--it's a void. As I've asked before, "How do you act nothingness?" I think Elijah's answer is to let his face do... nothing! In those first shots (which have always affected me more than the later ones, when he's turned farther and we begin to see an actual grief reaction), every muscle on his face (probably on his head!) is absolutely slack. His eyes aren't closed, because that would take muscle use--but the lids are drooping with gravity. His mouth isn't closed, but it's not really open, either; it's just... hanging... where it would be if left to do its own thing. None of the muscles around his nose or on his forehead that he uses so much are tightened the least bit. How does he do that?

After about 50 frames of that nothingness, his eyes start to move--barely; I had to enlarge the picture to be able to see the beginning of the shift. When he's focusing his eyes on Aragorn, the muscles in his forehead start to tense. His eyes and mouth gradually (g-r-a-d-u-a-l-l-y) go from slack to what we recognize as grief.

Sometimes I wonder why I--as a supposedly mature adult :rolleyes: --spend time watching this "kid" frame by frame, and wondering where his acting will take him next. Then I have an experience of awe in the face of a true gift, like last night, and it doesn't seem like "time-wasting" after all. (Although as soon as I finish this post, I have to get RL things taken care of).

There was another reason--besides the slack muscles--that I was looking at each frame and enlarging them last night. I was trying to find Elijah Wood there somewhere. I don't know what he was doing--maybe off taking a cigarette break--but I will swear that he was not in that scene.


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Okay, after a deep breath :o :

Hi, Terry, and welcome. :) Trusting that you haven't been scared off! :p

I've put up a page of screencaps I could figure out how to distill: Foot chase from Chain of Fools (http://www.members.tripod.com/afewwords_tgs/id164.htm) (I hang my head in shame :o at realizing I posted that without a "Top of Page" link for repeat viewings. I'll fix that next time I'm in editing.)

And I've put my comments for Chain of Fools up on the Wood movies page (http://www.members.tripod.com/afewwords_tgs/id62.htm), but probably didn't say anything I haven't said here :) . After TT&T, Child in the Night, and Ash Wednesday, it was kind of nice to be able to rate a new (for me) EJW movie as better than average. :cool:

Originally posted by Ariel
Anyway, one of my biggest beefs with TTT has been the way they have taken most of Frodo's really good take charge moments and given them to Sam - (how did Boromir die, where they are going, etc.) while at the same time taking any errors Sam might have made (letting word of the ring slip) away. It really seems Sam's character is being beefed up at the expense of both Frodo and Faramir. I ended up, at the end of TTT feeling that the way the film was presented that the smart thing to do would be for Faramir to take the ring and give it to Sam since Frodo was in no condition to get it to Mt. Doom anyway.

That's certainly how I felt about TTT on my first viewing, and it took another four viewings for me to adjust to PJ's Frodo in TTT.

However, Film Sam is not a total Goody Two-Shoes. PJ has not stinted from showing us Sam's brutality to Gollum.

I miss steely, feisty Book Frodo too at times ... but he was missing from FOTR as well, remember. Book Frodo is a gentle character but he does have that inner steel in him at times. EJW shows flashes of this on occasion ... I wish it could have been more.

It is still a disappointment to me that I will NEVER see Frodo Baggins defy the Nine on his own at Bruinen. :( That's one of the very first things I heard about the films, back in December 1999, that Arwen would be rescuing Frodo in that scene, and my reaction was :eek: and :( I was absolutely thrilled to hear about the films being made, and so much sounded so good -- except that! :p

from Maeglian
- "I do not ask you to come with me, Jeeves”.
-" I know, Mr. Wooster. I doubt even my bowler hat could help us in there.”



:eek: :eek: :eek:

*trouts Maeglian and Ariel for encouraging her....*

Must stop speculating..... at least, must delay speculating....... can't stop speculating :eek: :rolleyes:

More wedding speculation
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Looking entirely away from the book where the family is there to celebrate Arwen's wedding.....
I still think Elrond, Galadriel and Celeborn should be at the wedding in the film. Not being there IMO would signal they do not respect Arwen's choice, and/or her husband-to-be. Now I can see them grieving desperately at her decision, but they have been around for a long time and have seen so much tragedy, loss and grief over the long years, surely they can pull themselves together and be happy for Arwen as she weds. It would be strange if Elrond, the grandson of Idril Celebrindal and the great-grandson of Luthien Tinuviel, couldn't bring himself to respect that his daughter would choose as 2 of his ancestors did.

My own interpretation on the Elrond/Arwen scenes in TTT has pretty much been (from the 2nd viewing) that Elrond is so harsh and grumpy and depicts her fate so very bleakly to make absolutely sure that she fully understands and accepts what her choice will entail, and that there will be no going back. Once he is certain of that, he lets her make her choice (offscreen), and he respects her choice however much it grieves him. I do not think Arwen left for the Havens, and I do not think Elrond *believes* she left for the Havens;- look at his face as she's leaving. That's not the face of a father who sees his daughter leaving to be safe in the undying lands. She is probably leaving to bring Aragorn his sword, is my guess. Well, somebody's got to do that, and soon!

However, if the film replaces the Field of Cormallen with a combined wedding/coronation/victory celebration, that could occur as soon as Frodo was up and about, which would mean that the elves from Lothlorien and Rivendell wouldn't have time to get to Minas Tirith before the wedding. Which means Arwen has shown up in MT beforehand, but I think that's probably reasonable to assume anyway. So maybe that's the film's solution to who is present at the wedding. But then I'd expect to see Arwen at the Havens. With all the focus on her relationship to her father, they can't *not* show their sorrowful and sad goodbye.......

All IMVHO, of course, and with my previous "luck" when it comes to predicting what will happen, it's probable that something entirely different will occur. :rolleyes:


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End speculation and on to other things !


A little more about Jeeves and Wooster

Thank you Ariel for combining the 2 pictures. It *is* quite funny.

PG Wodehouse first wrote about the moronic Bertie Wooster and his talented and proper valet Jeeves in 1934, I believe, and continued on for many years, so in that sense the two of them are contemporaries of Frodo and Sam. And more than that, it's pretty easy to think up comparisons that *would* work in a parody.....Bertie the utter affable doofus is a bachelor and trying his darndest to stay that way, despite the efforts of older relatives to get him married. (Could work for Frodo, no? :D ) However, he fumbles his way into disastrous near-engagements on a regular basis and has to be rescued by Jeeves. Bertie's friends of the same social class as himself, are mostly just as moronic as he is, idling away their days in the club or doing stupid pranks and getting themselves into the strangest awkward situations that requires Jeeves to set things right. (Film Pippin and Merry in the Green Dragon and stealing vegetables come easily to mind..... :D ). There are always fire-breathing old aunts to be kept at bay (yep, Lobelia look-alikes!) and otherwise older relatives that Bertie has to placate, visit and keep on a reasonably good standing with, what with bearing in mind inheritance issues and all that is considered proper behaviour...... So that could work for, say, Saradoc and Esmeralda Brandybuck, for instance. ;)

Yes, a LotR hobbit parody a la Wodehouse would work just fine!!! Unfortunately, very much of such a parody would depend on the language, and I can't recall much of that, it's too long since I read the books. I can only recall that Jeeves uses the word "Indeed" frequently and with Very Meaningful intonations, and that Bertie has a penchant for saying "Right ho!" :rolleyes:

It's interesting, though, to compare Wodehouse's world and Tolkien's Shire. In a way their writing draws on and depicts the same social and cultural background and customs there, but while Wodehouse presents a satire of the stiff upper lip English, Tolkien presents the heroic and admirable qualities inherent in the same. But I probably shouldn't draw that comparison any further, since I'm not English myself and probably don't get the nuances or see the differences or similarities anyway.

So I'll end my already overlong post.


Edit: Hi Prim!! :) I just *knew* there would be trouts for that comparison! :D

And ainon; - in my view there can *never* be too many gratuitous angsty Frodo pictures. And we're on a new page now! Hint,......hint :o

Originally posted by Maeglian
So I'll end my already overlong post.
Maeg--I believe an "overlong post" is in the same category as a "gratuitous Frodo pic" :p .

Well, I have been working on this scene so I just had to post something from it:

http://www.imagemagician.com/images/tgshaw/Fellowship/resize-cap6162-85.jpg

But I'm a long way from feeling I've been able to "boil it down" into a reasonable number of screencaps.

--------

I just finished watching Office Space, which my co-worker let me borrow in return for my lending him Chain of Fools. Office Space may be one of Elijah's favorite movies, and it is funny and all, but IMHO Chain of Fools is far and away the better (and even the funnier) movie. So why is OS available on DVD in the U.S., while CofF... oh, well, been there before, haven't we :rolleyes: ? An interesting little overlap is that Orlando Jones (who plays a transvestite in CofF) also has a one-scene part in OS (not as a transvestite :p ).

Sad news, Faculty. According to TORn, Elijah Wood (Frodo) was nominated for Favorite Male Butt Kicker at the Nickelodeon 'Kids Choice Awards' but lost out to Jackie Chan. Well, at least it was Jackie Chan. I don't know who the other nominees are, but it's cool to be in the same category as Jackie Chan even. ;)

Terry, tg, Maeg - thanks for the "Jeeves and Wooster" info. LOL. Now I get it. I never knew that 'Ask Jeeves' was historically significant. :p And d'oh ... I was writing as Ariel posted, and somehow I logged off immediately after posting my bit last night, so I didn't see the comparison pics till now. Thanks, Ariel! Definitely get it now. :D


speculation
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Well, I admit culture colours my perceptions - where I am, parents are justified not to respect their kids' decisions to mess up their own lives; I'm not siding with either party when I say that though. Just that it's the sort of thing that happens. Even if the family gives in, and gives consent, it doesn't mean they'll be able to overcome their grief, and especially not on the day that, to their POV, is the saddest day for the family. Just because past sorrows have been dealt with doesn't mean they're prepared to face another round of grief in the present.

Hollywood treats the matter differently though, by almost always insisting that the lovers are in the right and so by that token everyone must rejoice when they win their way. What absolutely fascinated me about the path the movie's taken in this respect is that both Arwen and Elrond are shown to be right *and* wrong. Elrond is very much the kind of father I would expect from this part of the world, and interestingly while I'd usually want to rebel against that kind of patronising 'scare tactics' in RL, the movie makes me understand and respect his desperate need to protect his daughter as much as he can.

Not really much to say about the real Elvish stuff speculation though. I guess that's where I fall back into hobbit-centricism. :p



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speculation


More new tg screencaps! And even more to come! (469 frames isn't that many, what?) Woo Hoo! Going to go look now. :)


*waves to Prim*

Popping in to post a link (http://www.kfki.hu/~arthp/art/r/reni/2/potiphar.jpg) to the picture Joseph and Potiphar's Wife by Guido Reni. This image may be no ill emblem of the Harem :D :D

Originally posted by Tg:
____________________________________________________

The "awe-inspiring" activity I did last night was try to decide what frames should be used (or, really, what frames could possibly be left out) if I were to try to give Blossom gif-material for what I still consider the greatest moment of acting in motion picture history--when Frodo turns toward Aragorn after Moria. I went through the whole scene frame-by-frame and was overwhelmed again by everyone's acting there. But Elijah's is just so much beyond anyone else...

In case anyone's interested there are 469 frames from the first shot of Frodo in the distance to the cut to the next scene--and I looked at them all (without deciding which ones could be omitted).

____________________________________________________

That's the trouble with sorting out images for gifs; to get the 'flowing' effect you need to use frame-by frame sequences, and that involves lots of screencaps. For my Ringbearer1, 2 and 3, I also captured over 400 frames from the beginning to the end of that little scene - and I didn't get the 'Mordor Gandalf, is it left or right?' bit! Inevitably, there has to be lots of editing to make the file a reasonable size, and it is difficult to decide which frames to leave out when you are faced with so many.

It's very time-consuming, and is best viewed as a labour of love, which I'm sure it is for you too, Tg.

Regarding the 'One Tear' scene you refer to above - did you see deluby's gif of that scene. I've just checked and the link was posted here on Page 98, and was number 20 of that set. Unfortunately, the gif doesn't show now - it just links to the main page of the image-hosting site, so not sure what's happened there. For that gif deluby used 23 frames, and the file size is 961KB - so it shows just how much editing has to be done. If you didn't download it at the time, perhaps deluby would put it up again.:) I think I have each and every one of deluby's wonderful gifs saved to CD, so they're quite safe, but I have purposefully not made any up myself that clash with hers. I've tried to limit mine to scenes that she hasn't covered - I couldn't hope to equal deluby's talent for gifs, and her 'One Tear' one is perfect.

Btw - WHERE ARE YOU DELUBY? I HAVE MISSED YOU THE LAST FEW DAYS. Hope to see you back soon!:)

Oh, and Tg - I am now on day 26 - only 4 to go. I did price up the animation software - :eek: is all I have to say. It may be a choice between that and ordering the (no - I still haven't got around to that yet!) 'Huck Finn' and 'Good Son' DVD's.:confused: What shall I do?

Almost forgot - Welcome Terry. Hope you like it here!:)

Originally posted by ainon
Sad news, Faculty. According to TORn, Elijah Wood (Frodo) was nominated for Favorite Male Butt Kicker at the Nickelodeon 'Kids Choice Awards' but lost out to Jackie Chan. Well, at least it was Jackie Chan. I don't know who the other nominees are, but it's cool to be in the same category as Jackie Chan even. ;)
Does this mean that Frodo is officially not a pansy :p ??

speculation
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Hollywood treats the matter differently though, by almost always insisting that the lovers are in the right and so by that token everyone must rejoice when they win their way.
Ah, yes... Hollywood romance :rolleyes: -- Can I go back to my statement about CofF and its "lost people wandering around bumping into other lost people" being more true to life than a typical Hollywood happy ending?

If movie watchers voted on "best ending of a movie, ever," the award would probably still go to Casablanca. But if Casablanca were made today would Hollywood have the guts to say that "the problems of two little people aren't worth a hill of beans"? and have both members of the couple go on to where their higher duty calls them? (Even my mother, who hadn't seen Casablanca until several years ago even though she's from that era, said that up until the end she thought the husband would get killed and Rick and Ilsa could be together--my guess is that if the movie were made now, that's probably what would happen.)

PJ has shown some guts so far. I've mentioned--but in another thread, I think--that one Hollywood insider [can't remember who, of course :o ] said that the biggest risk PJ took in FotR was including the scene of the Fellowship mourning Gandalf. He said most moviemakers just wouldn't stop the story in its tracks for that length of time. IIRC, the second biggest was having your main character on screen but silent for several scenes running (Frodo doesn't say a word between "Noooo" and "What will I see?"--which, of course, is perfectly right for the story and the character).

Anyway, I see a lot of parallels between Casablanca and LotR, and if PJ pulls off the Grey Havens anything close to "right" the endings of the movies will have a lot in common. Hollywood will probably call it "risky," but I think real people will say, "At last, someone's giving us some truth." Which, of course, is what I believe Tolkien was trying to give us.

-------

There's a difficulty in the movies in that the whole thing has been simplified into a personal, romantic love story (well, it is Hollywood). In the book, Arwen's decision to stay in Middle-earth is far more complicated than that. Both the reader and Elrond understand that by staying, Arwen isn't only choosing human love (although she's certainly doing that) but is also fulfilling her role as Evenstar, in relationship to Luthien's Morning Star. I have to say that I don't know how that whole thing--which is complicated--could be wedged into the movies. But by stretching the love story to cover even more of an "Arwen presence" than we have in the book, IMHO the movies stretch it just a bit too far. It doesn't have the weight needed to make me, at least, believe it.

--------------

What absolutely fascinated me about the path the movie's taken in this respect is that both Arwen and Elrond are shown to be right *and* wrong.

That aspect of their story is true to Tolkien, I think--although the specific Arwen/Elrond relationship is handled completely differently. Tolkien's characters do have to make real decisions, and real decisions are rarely clear-cut.






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speculation






...(469 frames isn't that many, what?)...
Well, when I was wading back into it last night I realized it was 439 and not 469. Sorry for exaggerating :o ;) .


Blossom--I completely understand about your not wanting to repeat any of the gifs deluby has done. It's kind of how I feel about my avatars--there are a lot of pics I love that I won't use for an avatar because they "belong" to someone already. (I happened to use one similar to yours before you started using it ;) .) I still want to work on the scene myself, though, because I'm getting so much out of it--there's really no need for it to be "giffed." BTW, I always have to stop and think a bit when someone calls it the "One Tear" scene. If there were one thing I'd omit from it, it's that one tear. IMVHO, it's not needed--Frodo's face says it all.

delurks, sucked in by Fropics

Reckon he'll be doing an Australian accent?

Oh good Gawd.

Elijah! I can teach ya! Come on Down Under!!!!

relurks

Hi, Peachy :) ! I was hoping to sneak in and add another "BTW" as an edit to my previous post, but you beat me ;) .

Anyway---BTW2: One thing I've "discovered" through enlarging some frames is that there are actually two tears in the "One Tear" scene--the second one never falls, quite similar to the one in the mirror scene in the FotR SE.

---------

Although the penguin role sounds promising (given the director, and all), I'm trying very hard not to imagine a squeaky-high mumbling penguin voice with an Australian accent (the Australian accent's fine by me, it's the rest... :rolleyes: ).

Maeg!! Big :k for the jeeves and wooster explanation. I thought of Lobelia S-B, too, as the prototypical Bertie Wooster Aunt, as in "Aunts aren't Gentlemen" (which is one of my favorite Wodehouse titles). And given the popularity of Wodehouse among educated Brits during the 30's and 40's, it wouldn't surprise me to find some hidden, maybe subconscious even :p , references in Tolkien's work of the 40's and and 50's.

And I did it, colleagues! I saw TTT again. Go me! In an almost empty theatre, so I could sit up close! I had a great time reading Greek subtitles: well, "reading" may be too strong a word. Sounding them out is more like it. So Rohan comes out looking like Poav! I love it! (Can't show you what Frodo looks like in Greek without special characters; trust me, it is a kick!)

And Where IS Deluby?? Hope all is well! And I wait patiently (well, impatiently) for Elve's return. :)

From tgshaw:
But by stretching the love story to cover even more of an "Arwen presence" than we have in the book, IMHO the movies stretch it just a bit too far. It doesn't have the weight needed to make me, at least, believe it.
YES!! That's what's wrong with Arwen, imo. The story's stretched out and given more time, but it doesn't have the weight to make it feel like more than a Hollywood cliche to me.

Whereas Frodo's story is unusual (risky, even) enough to make it seem far more emotionally powerful.

Ok, that was off-topic for the EJW thread, but I'm glad you said that, tg.

Mel

Hi Peachy :), and hi, Brunhild! The painting you dropped off *did* find its way over to the Harem and was appreciated. :)

Uhm....

About emotional risk in movies; - for some time, quite some years ago by now.... I was under the impression that Gone with the Wind was the only Hollywood movie without a happy ending. I liked GwtW all the more, because of that. And they have that other "emotionally risky" scene too - they have Clark Gable actually crying. Tears. I've read that that was *so* not done back then, leading men didn't cry..... and Gable himself didn't want to do it, but they convinced him to have a try and he had to admit it really worked. Don't know whether that's true or just a good story, but it *is* a good story. And believable. Maybe the movies of the 30's and 40's (Casablanca) were bigger on emotional risk than the Hollywood stuff that followed over the next many years?

Anyway, my gut reaction to who should turn up at Arwen's wedding is entirely a cultural thing too. Not claiming it is more or less right than other ways, of course; - Parents here may think their child's intended is a disaster, that nothing but misery will result; - but they show up at the wedding and celebrate, if they at all want to remain on speaking terms with their son/daughter in future. I'm not entirely certain Film!Elrond would agree with that approach though, so we have to wait and see.

And speaking of Elrond, I just got home tonight in time to see the last 5 minutes of "Babe" on one of the TV channels. Given the recent discussion about Penguins following in Babe's footsteps, of course I *had* to watch those 5 minutes. Babe is adorable. And in the cast list, who other appeared as "Rex the male sheepdog" than Hugo Weaving?

I must admit, if I worry over who will turn up at the Havens and whether there'll be a small crowd of blubbering elves to distract the audience, I think about how Frodo probably will look and sound there, using those early Rivendell recovery scenes as a tentative basis for that speculation. That pale sad look with smudges under the eyes, and careworn lines at the mouth, and accented cheekbones...... :( That pretty much re-convinces me that Arwen-blubbering notwithstanding, the Havens *will* be a beautiful emotional heartwrenching sob-fest...... :( ( and :cool: ! )


I wonder about Deluby too. I hope all is well! :)

Delurking again.. uh-oh! :)

Have you seen Roman Holiday, Maeglian? Another sad ending, based on Princess Margaret's giving up love for duty, I think. AND with Gregory Peck.
Of course, the royals wouldn't do that nowadays. :rolleyes:

Enjoying the Wodehouse comparisons, BTW.

from tg
No matter how many times I see it, that look of complete nothingness when Frodo begins to turn takes my breath away. It's not grief--it's a void. As I've asked before, "How do you act nothingness?" I think Elijah's answer is to let his face do... nothing! In those first shots (which have always affected me more than the later ones, when he's turned farther and we begin to see an actual grief reaction), every muscle on his face (probably on his head!) is absolutely slack.

Can you find a screencap to show that tg? I have a broken video player (rats!) and think my dad is wearying of me watching snippets of FoTR at his house despite my coming up with some really convincing excuses....(broken washing machine: can I use yours Dad? Err...can the children watch this movie while we wait...????? I'll just supervise them then shall I.....???? :p )

I'm learning about Alexander the Great and thusly Passionately want to Know Why peaceweaver is There and Not Me.:mad: ;)

re Arwen and yes I'm off topic here... I see Ainon's point here. I'm very suspicious now at my advanced age of the western cult of romantic love. I can relate strongly to movie!Elrond's grief; particularly as he has millenium to contemplate it. I actually never puzzled over this in the book: probably because I was young in my first readings and took the Primary Importance of Romantic Love as a given; and because book!Elrond seems less perturbed than grumpy old Hugo. But thinking about it: in a mortal life a fleeting or foolish marriage lasts for only a few years. For an elf its a millenia of grief. Perhaps the long lasting effects are why mortals are more sanguine about marrying elves than vice versa. Elves not only have a lot more to lose (in fact Aragorn loses nothing at all if you come to think of it) but their kin has a lot longer to ponder this.

Brunhild's Joseph has a remarkable resemblance to EW's Frodo!! Just proves the EW style of beauty, geek glasses and shaved head notwithstanding, has sound historical precedents.

*waves at Pearl*. I'm sorry Pearl. I see your pain (re the Ford of Bruinen) but my inner purist is so dead that I can't share it.:rolleyes: Oh well. What can I say, except, very quietly:I think I like EW's Frodo better than my (still surprisingly persistent every time I pick up the books) original book Frodo.
*waiting for the trouts...*:k

Hail and well met (again) Peachy. You're very rare here! And salutations to Terry!

*deluby reports in* http://members.lycos.co.uk/duckycc/smilies/wave1.gifHello all! Sorry to have you guys worried about me. :o I've been doing video capturing and encoding for the past week. Since my computer is a bit slow, if I have other programs running while doing the encoding, it'll probably take forever, so I figured I'd better leave all available system resource to the encoding program. Otherwise I would go http://members.lycos.co.uk/duckycc/smilies/hammercomputer.gif.
Most of the video-to-computer transfering are done, only AW left. (It's been raining nonstop, kinda got in the way of my trip to the video rental store.http://members.lycos.co.uk/duckycc/smilies/bleh.gif) Am thinking about transfering EW's part in Oliver Twist too, IIRC he's only in about half of the whole movie right?


"The Tear outside Moria"--- Oh yes, I remember finishing screencapping that sequence and staring at about 300 pics(I was going for every other frame) thinking "oh no, how am I gonna squeeze those into 20+ frames?". So I definately feel your pain, TG. I think I ended up cutting out every other frame and then every 3rd frame and cut out a few more. I wasn't satisfied with the end result though, I think it kinda lost the "magic" of the scene. :( I don't know, maybe breaking up the sequence into 3 parts would help? "The nothingness look" then "the grief" and "the tear"? Hmm, I think I'll redo that gif, separate the three parts so I can zoom in on Frodo's face in each part.


Blossom, great gifs again!! and like ainon, I was wondering about the "ringbearer1" too. ;) Glad you posted it. :k

Hi Terry!

Lots of stuff to catch up. Gotta go!

Lordy I hate to be so off-topic (as if there isn't PLENTY of material in Elwood's body of work to keep us talking about him!), but the references here to Arwen's wedding are spookily related to a recent story I read somewhere about Liv T's wedding--neither of her parents were there, apparently. Life imitates art, huh?

Hi deluby! Hi Peachy! Hi Prim! Come on over: we can go see TTT in Greek together! :)

Back on topic: Niiiice pic of Joseph and Potiphar's wife. I gasped when I saw the resemblance to EW. He's just got those classical features, I guess.

Anyone heard anything more about Try Seventeen? Or Thumbsucker?

Originally posted by Prim
Can you find a screencap to show that tg? I have a broken video player (rats!) and think my dad is wearying of me watching snippets of FoTR at his house despite my coming up with some really convincing excuses....(broken washing machine: can I use yours Dad? Err...can the children watch this movie while we wait...????? I'll just supervise them then shall I.....???? :p )
Hi, Prim--The screencap I posted up toward the top of this page kind of shows it, but the one below is probably better because he's turned farther--it's only a couple of frames before the first eye movement I saw. Also, I usually decrease the size when I post pics but this one I left full-size. (And I do admit to heavy use of the zoom function on this project :o -- the nose & forehead part might be hard to see with the "naked eye," but when his nose and forehead are filling the screen... :rolleyes: )

http://www.imagemagician.com/images/tgshaw/Fellowship/cap6174-85.jpg

I'm very suspicious now at my advanced age of the western cult of romantic love. I can relate strongly to movie!Elrond's grief; particularly as he has millenium to contemplate it. I actually never puzzled over this in the book: probably because I was young in my first readings and took the Primary Importance of Romantic Love as a given; and because book!Elrond seems less perturbed than grumpy old Hugo.
What helps me, at least, in the book is that Arwen's choice is not just about romantic love. There's fate and duty woven all through it. IMHO, modern movies have a hard time seeing that those things can be related. Elrond also understands this in the book, and it's a tribute to his understanding of "What should be shall be" that he doesn't stand in the way of that fate and duty--sweetened, certainly, by the loving relationship she's entering into, but not limited to it. That's why, when the movie completely eliminates that part of it, the love story just doesn't carry enough weight (IMHO) to handle what Tolkien designed it to. It seems that "modern" movies (as opposed to the 1930's and 1940's, as some have mentioned--ever see "The Student Prince"?) are somehow afraid to link duty to love, as if duty somehow makes the love less "pure" which I think is... well, I probably shouldn't say what I think it is :mad: . IMVVHO, the "cult of romantic love" has probably caused more divorces than many other factors--that is, the idea that if you're "in l-o-v-e" any problems you have will be automatically taken care of. Of course, Arwen, at several hundred years old, should know better (and in the book, IMHO, she does ;) ).

-------Don't mean to ignore your post, deluby, but have to run or boss will be looking at the clock. Will try to come back online at work--I do want to say something about the screencap process :) .

deluby!!!!!! *hugs* Oh wow, deluby! You got all that done in one week?! Yuo're an absolute marvel, my dear. Bless you. :notworthy:

Welcome Peachy! Another lady (and potential Elijah stalk... errr, I mean studier) from this side of the world! :D

Thanks for the painting, Brunhild. :cool:

And thanks for the 'CoF-foot chase' and 'nothing' caps, tg. :)

Maeg
Maybe the movies of the 30's and 40's (Casablanca) were bigger on emotional risk than the Hollywood stuff that followed over the next many years?

Well, movies have always followed trends, but weren't Casablanca and Gone With the Wind movies that bucked the trends set during their time? The 'Cary Grant cries' story is often told, and I agree - even if it weren't true, it should be. :D Anyway, I'm sure there are other examples of movies that bucked the emotional trend, but one I can name right away would be Ordinary People, from the late '70s.


Maeg:
Parents here may think their child's intended is a disaster, that nothing but misery will result; - but they show up at the wedding and celebrate, if they at all want to remain on speaking terms with their son/daughter in future.

Very, very off-topic, :o sorry (will make it up with multitudes of EW Frodo character pics!), but despite my exposure to Hollywood and books and Western values and all, I never quite figured that, so that's pretty interesting. Here, culturally we're all bound to our parents' decisions and requirements; to break a parent's heart (esp. if that parent were your mother!) is tantamount to being doomed for eternal damnation, that kinda thing. The notion of duty is always to one's parents first. Which sure creates a *lot* of anguish should conflict and disagreements arise. It's commonly understood that the only way to be blessed in life is if one's parents continue to bless that life (a bit of an oxymoron though because what parent would bear to upset the kid's life in any way?). The relationship between MovieElrond & Arwen was probably the first time I saw a 'Hollywood' father-daughter relationship that seemed my RL familiar to me. And now that I think about it, Prim's right about Aragorn losing nothing - he even dies by his own choice at just the right time for him; not for her. :(

Actually I always took BookElrond's demand that Aragorn must be King of Gondor before he even stands a chance win Arwen to be a *very* not subtle hint to buzz off his daughter (although of course it makes for a terrific plot and finallyprovides the AragornAngst I plowed hundreds of pages for). By that token MovieElrond seems pretty reasonable. He only asks Aragorn to reconsider or else ...
*flees the trouts*


Prim:
What can I say, except, very quietly:I think I like EW's Frodo better than my (still surprisingly persistent every time I pick up the books) original book Frodo.

LOL. Nah, no trouts from me. Just a couple of :k :k While BookFrodo was my ideal and wonderfully unique hero, whom I loved and will continue to love for all time, and against whom every other movie/TV/book hero since has had to compare with, he was also identifiably fictional - even when I wanted to believe he was historical. EW's Frodo is remarkably all-round real. For me. I know that comparison made no sense whatsoever. Not that the Faculty is surprised. :p


Quickly changing the subject before anyone can bring out more trouts...

Not only is EW not a wimp, he's also officially cool, having been nominated by MTV for: Best On-Screen Team (Elijah Wood, Sean Astin and Gollum) :rolleyes: re: the Gollum bit. The name is Andy Serkis!!


Btw, I'm surprised no one's mentioned that Elijah's one of the "The Sexiest Sci-Fi Stars in the Galaxy"! http://www.theonering.net/perl/newsview/8/1050276025


And as promised, from http://maggiebear.crosswinds.net

http://maggiebear.crosswinds.net/behind03/behind026.jpg

http://maggiebear.crosswinds.net/behind04/behind038.jpg

http://maggiebear.crosswinds.net/behind03/behind029.jpg


Yeah, yeah, I know there were some swoons. Back to geek mode ;) the difference between the Shire Frodos and post-Shire Frodo: is it in amount of make-up? Like, see how 'shiny' he is here, when the light hasn't been adjusted for filming?

http://maggiebear.crosswinds.net/behind06/behind052.jpg

{{{Sheryl}}} - you feelin' okay?

Originally posted by deluby
Am thinking about transfering EW's part in Oliver Twist too, IIRC he's only in about half of the whole movie right?
Hmmm... He's not in the first part of the movie at all, since he doesn't show up until Oliver goes to London. But after that he's in it pretty majorly, except for a few scenes. I don't know how the actual timing would work out.

But, WOW, you've been busy :eek: :cool: !!


"The Tear outside Moria"--- Oh yes, I remember finishing screencapping that sequence and staring at about 300 pics(I was going for every other frame) thinking "oh no, how am I gonna squeeze those into 20+ frames?". So I definately feel your pain, TG. I think I ended up cutting out every other frame and then every 3rd frame and cut out a few more. I wasn't satisfied with the end result though, I think it kinda lost the "magic" of the scene. :( I don't know, maybe breaking up the sequence into 3 parts would help? "The nothingness look" then "the grief" and "the tear"? Hmm, I think I'll redo that gif, separate the three parts so I can zoom in on Frodo's face in each part.
Well, I'm not really in pain--awe, a bit of frustration because there's so much there that I won't be able to share :( ... But I'm not as limited in number of screencaps since I don't make gifs.

Even while looking at the screencaps, though, I was thinking of the difficulty of using this scene for gifs, because of how gradual everything is. Each frame is just a bit different from the one before it, and it's a challenge to figure out when it's changed enough that another screencap is needed. It's slow and gradual while gifs are faster and have to somehow "jump" from one pic to the next. When you talk about the magic of the scene, I think that's part of it. I've also tried cropping some of the lefthand side of the frame, but IMO that takes away an essential element, too--there's something about that bleak, empty expanse that seems almost necessary for the mood of the shot (and it is a shot--we talk about it as a scene, but it's really just one continuous camera shot, which contributes immensely to it being gradual and slow, and, I think, hard to screencap or gif).

[This is going to be a jumping in-and-out day for me--because my boss is wanting things off the internet (so I can't just open Word and let my post sit here :rolleyes: ).]

Jumping back in :) : One thing that struck me (almost literally--POW!) when I was zoomed in on some of the screencaps, is that we (the camera, the audience) are really in Aragorn's position. So when Frodo has turned part-way and begins to focus his eyes, he's focusing them on us. It's another thing that's not quite as noticable at the end of the shot, after the grief and the tears come in--but before then, the expression in his eyes is another one of those that combine so many different things it's impossible to put a name on it. Last night I saw pleading and even a bit of accusation (for what--calling him back when he was walking away? forcing him out of the nothingness into an awareness of his grief?). If I looked at it again tonight, I'd probably see something different. But whatever it is he's expressing, it's almost frighteningly apparent that he's expressing it to us. As emotionally affecting as that scene is, my guess is that there are a number of things like that in it--that is, things we see each time we watch it that are too fleeting or too small to affect us consciously, but their combined power in the subconscious hits us between the eyes.

I'm going to try to squeeze in another paragraph here before I start the next project on my desk, because I'm definitely back in a state of awe. I don't feel as if anything I've said makes a dent in the "How does he do it?" question for that camera shot. I mean, what would you say to yourself: "I'm going to make almost-but-not-quite a 180-degree turn. At the start of it I'm going to show absolute numbness and at the end of it will look completely grief-stricken. And during that turn, I'm going to change from one expression to the other so slowly and gradually and consistently (and at exactly the right speed to have reached the final expression I want at precisely the instant I need to reach it) that there's no one moment when the audience will notice the change in progress--all they'll see is the effect of the change as it occurs."

Uh, yeah... It's like looking at an original painting by a great master and saying, "Oh, I see how he did it--he used brush strokes!"

----------

P.S.-- ainon, I think Frodo's appearance at various stages of the quest had to be done a lot through makeup--especially when you consider the movies weren't shot in sequence. We know there was at least one occasion when Elijah was shooting a scene from FotR one day and a scene well into RotK the next--IMHO, you'd have to have some kind of "makeup support" for that. (Also, regarding the pics you posted--IIRC we see the Party waistcoat only at night, so that would affect the makeup, too.)

Scene: The office of an important New Line executive guy. A New Line market analyst has just entered, bringing the most recent LotR polls, studies and analysis along.

Executive Guy: - "Ah, yes, the market analysis. Still just a bed of roses, eh? Those movies just keep hogging interest! We’re close now, so close to achieving our goal. When RotK is released, we’ll be the ultimate kings of the movie world! "

Market Analyst: (Worried frown) - "Well, sir, there *are* certain black clouds on the horizon."

EG: (Coldly) - "I do *not* appreciate jokes about the bottom line. Nor, of course, about our artistic efforts."

MA: - "No, sir. I’m very sorry sir. I’m not joking. (Hands him a paper with figures and percentages) As you’ll see from this recent analysis and the polls, there is development that may impact our estimates negatively. If you’ll just let me walk you through this briefly….."

EG: (Very dubious face, but nods consent and stares at paper.)

MA: - "When it comes to the core audience and fan base, from the analysis of the number of hits, posts and new threads at major LotR themed web pages and fan sites: The Extremely Urgent Desperation Ratio (EUDR) has decreased significantly. A drop was to be expected, of course, but as you’ll see...."

EG: (Gulps and turns slightly paler as he reads) - "Go on. I’m listening."

MA: - "Moreover, our monitoring of fan discussions and opinions now show that a portion of fans actually deem Gregory Peck a more interesting actor than Elijah Wood, and deem PG Wodehouse a more relevant discussion topic than Tolkien, and engage increasingly in topics such as modern marriage customs, renaissance art, ancient mythologies or computer technology to the detriment of LotR related themes. You see the percentages and statistic significance levels listed right there.
And as for the Very Rabid Fangirl Interest Ratio (VRFIR), you might especially want to note the impact of this recent SFX overview. Of the Top 20 Sexiest Sci-fi stars, LotR stars account for 20%, while for instance, Buffy/Angel stars rake in all of 35% !"

EG: (mutters) - "Your words are poision!" (Normal voice: ) - "Well, I see…... but this all relates to the devoted or rabid book and movie fan sections, and not to the all-important Very Big and Diversified and Normally Quite Disinterested General Public (VBDNQDGP), right?"

MA: - "That’s true, sir. Although the fans *do* create a lot of buzz and repeat business, of course. However, when it comes to the general public, you’ll note that the Extreme LotR Recognition and Eager Anticipation Levels (ELREAL), when seen in comparison to other upcoming blockbusters…." (Sighs heavily) - "Sir, it’s all wrong. By rights we shouldn’t be in this situation. But we are."

EG: (Looks at figures and suddenly starts biting his nails) - "How did it come to this?"

MA: (Respectful silence)

EG: - "Never mind. We obviously need to take immediate and decisive action. Publicity. New pictures. Information on the net. Yes.….. Legolas running, fighting, dancing, staring dreamily into space…. That’ll do the trick!"

MA: (Short dubious silence) - "Uhm.… dancing?"

EG: - "You don’t think so? Not enough? Well, we’ll throw in Aragorn getting off his horse, all dressed up in kingly regalia, and running in slow-mo against a Liv Tyler sporting a tearfully trembling smile and dressed in a beautiful and immensely revealing and extremely low-cut dress."

MA: (Whispers almost inaudibly) - "Eeewwww"

EG: - "Still not enough?"

MA: - "I’m afraid not, Sir."

EG: (Aghast, ponders in silence, before new determination sets in) - "Well, we shall just have to move out there and meet this head on. Without delay!"

MA: (Almost disbelieving) - "You mean…...?"

EG: - "Yes indeed!"

MA: - "The Cirith Ungol trauma scenes, with a glimpse of…... eh.."

EG: - "Exactly!"

MA: (Relieved) - "Sir, this is a wise decision."

EG: (Pep-talk style with gusto) - "OK, let’s get to it! Pictures! A special on the official site! Clips! And get hold of that Wood fellow, no matter what obscure music festival he’s currently attending, and see to it that he makes some interesting and heartfelt statements about the acting challenges of those scenes!"

MA: - "I’ll see to it, Sir! Right away! Trust me….. In the end, it *is* only a passing thing, this market darkness. A new day will come. Once *this* hits the net, the sun *will* shine out the clearer!"

Both: :D :D (They grin triumphantly. And very soon, so do the fans.)

---------------

I have various things I'd like to reply to in the previous posts, but it's getting to be late here, and I couldn't get in to KD earlier :eek: , so I'll have to postpone that.

Good to see you here, Deluby! :)

Now, where have EE, Luthiea and Tathar wandered off to?

I've been maintaining that "Fly You Fools ---> One Tear" are three of the greatest minutes in the history of cinema, and I won't back down on that. Not only did Elijah Wood put his emotions on the line for that scene, but so did Peter Jackson and Andrew Lesnie. Not until TG brought it up did I think that it was Frodo was looking at us. :eek:

Maeglian!! HOW can we get you a job at New Line? They really, REALLY need your kind of thinking!!

(Can you imagine how these boards would melt down if a glimpse of CU leaked out of New Line's vault?)

The One Tear sequence. The whole post-Moria sequence. Do you remember how you felt the first time you ever saw that? I think even Tolkien's jaw would have dropped.

Maeg-- ROTFLMAO!! How do you keep coming up with these things?! (Or do you really have a microphone hidden in the NewLine corporate headquarters :D ?)

Originally posted by erendis
I've been maintaining that "Fly You Fools ---> One Tear" are three of the greatest minutes in the history of cinema, and I won't back down on that.
YesYesYes... I might even start "counting" a little sooner--from the time Boromir has to grab Frodo and hold him back. And after the Fellowship exits Moria, everyone is pouring their hearts into it. Both Seans are amazing. Dom does some great work that makes me wish the camera could stay on him longer. Orlando is heartbreaking. The score is perfect, to say nothing of the setting and the cinematography. And after Elijah (well, I know he's there somewhere, even though I can't see him) turns toward the camera, PJ does exactly the right thing--stops. I've probably said before that, although I think FotR is a wonderful movie, I don't think it's the "best movie ever made." But if I had to choose a best scene ever made, that would be it without any question--and I had to knock some awfully good scenes out of the way on my "list" to say that.

And Elda--Yes to what you said, too. A lot of FotR had to "grow on me," but that scene was perfection from the first time I saw it. And it fits both the words and the spirit of the book so closely that I think JRRT might have felt--at least for those moments--that he really was seeing his subcreation brought to reality. (Hmmm... Wasn't there some other thread where we were talking about "awe-inspiring moments" recently? ;) )

Well, here's "the look":

http://www.imagemagician.com/images/tgshaw/Fellowship/resizecap6212-85.jpg

EG: (Looks at figures and suddenly starts biting his nails) - "How did it come to this?"

Maeglian, that was brilliant!

And so have been the observations about the post-Moria scene. This sequence was one of those which really haunted me, after that first viewing – I just couldn’t stop thinking about how it conveyed the burden of sorrow and grief in such a subtle way.

I’m still impressed by it, even now when I’ve moved to the stage of analysing how these scenes are composed. They seem to flow so seamlessly, from the fall of Gandalf, to the exit from Moria, to the individual images of the hobbits, culminating with Frodo. And the whole thing conveying a very strong emotional continuity. If I didn’t know I would never dream that this intense, intimate moment of sadness was filmed in the middle of a group of people the size of a small football crowd, amidst all sorts of cameras and lights and machines that go ‘bing’. And probably weeks before or after the scenes which preceded it.

I hadn’t thought of that either tg, that this is the look that Aragorn sees, that it is directed to him. It gives it a much more personal edge, doesn’t it.

Maeg ... ROTFLMAO!!!

tg - that zoomed in image is absolutely *gasp* heartstopping.

Originally posted by estella rose
This sequence was one of those which really haunted me, after that first viewing – I just couldn’t stop thinking about how it conveyed the burden of sorrow and grief in such a subtle way.


Lovely to see you, estella. :) And ditto all you said. The scene was filmed at the end of '99 - before any of them had even met Sir Ian McKellen, or gotten to know him as Gandalf. Wow.



In a fervent effort to fulfill Maeg's prophecy by going as absolutely off-topic as possible to force New Line into revealing CU's darkest glory ---

I'm confused by one particular timeline event that we get from the commentaries and interviews: just when *did* Sean Bean decide that he was never going to fly anywhere in another helicopter and he'd rather climb up a mountain in his all his armour and big big plate thank you very much. He apparently walked & climbed up to the site where the post-Moria mourning scene was filmed. But his helicopter scare happened when they were filming the scene on the slopes of Caradhras and we see Gandalf is already in that scene ... or was that the Gandalf stand-in, with the Gandalf close-up filler filmed much later?


/end venture into absolute off-topicness. I'd still love to know what you guys made of the timeline, even if New Line doesn't bow to the pressure I'm exerting on 'em. :p

-------------



At least there's this news, the extras that the TTT DVD might contain:
16 TV Spots (8min 3sec total time, approx. 30sec each) new power, another, event revised, dream revised, darkness revised, return, strike, countdown, one word review, the wait is over, review B - Golden Globes, Gollum supreme review, review A - Golden Globes revisited, Good TOP 10, TOP 10 review, added value trailer consists of two items : "LORD OF THE RINGS - THE TWO TOWERS added value trailer" (1min 49sec), and "L.O.T.R T.T.T" (2min 51sec), Return to Middle Earth WB Special (43min 9sec).


Also, I'm sure Hobmom will make sure these pics will arrive safely at KD {{{Hobmom}}} - I'm just giving a quick heads-up to everyone that there're EW pics from previous events that we haven't seen before, posted at the site that shall not be named.


-------------

ps. There's an excellent Billy Boyd interview (http://filmforce.ign.com/articles/393/393444p1.html?fromint=1); I'm quoting this:

IGNFF: Have any stories filtered back to you about people taking advantage of your identity?

BOYD: Yeah, well, this company – Biscuit Media, who do my site – have caught a few people being me or Elijah or whatever. Which is a real shame, because a lot of the people who like the movie are quite young, and of course they want to speak to Elijah! And if someone comes on and says they're Elijah Wood, they want to believe it, you know? It's a shame they play with people's minds like that.

Ainon, I'm pretty sure that's a Gandalf stand-in; his face is really blurred, just like they sometimes blurred the hobbit size-doubles.

Discussing the One Tear scene has made me realize something: (correct me if I'm wrong) that this is really the first time that Frodo cries in both the book and the movie. Perhaps that is why PJ chose to shoot it as this sort of extreme and heartbreaking close-up.

Now if you'll excuse me, TG's zoom has gotten me a little choked-up.

Originally posted by Eldalieva
Discussing the One Tear scene has made me realize something: (correct me if I'm wrong) that this is really the first time that Frodo cries in both the book and the movie. Perhaps that is why PJ chose to shoot it as this sort of extreme and heartbreaking close-up.
Elda, as far as I can remember, you're right. There are earlier times in the book when Frodo is moved, but I can't think of a time when he's moved to the point of tears (although I may be forgetting something...).

In the book, we're in Frodo's POV throughout the entire event, so IMHO it's fitting that in the movie we see his reaction the most personally. He does start out in a state of shock in the book--everyone is running, Frodo hears Sam sobbing beside him as they run, and then Frodo realizes that he's crying, too.

Great discussion of the One Tear scene - beautiful pics too. :)


Peachy; - I actually haven't seen Roman Holiday.... a regrettable hole in my movie knowledge. (And not the only one, I'm afraid :o )


ainon- *wonderful* pictures there! :o :) And thanks for the link to the Billy Boyd interview. He sounds like the nicest and most positive and down-to-earth guy in the entire world! How *did* the LotR casting people manage to come up with so many utter *likable* actors? And strange coincidences in his childhood acting "career", first he played the Artful Dodger, and then he joined some acting thingy with Dolphin in the name?
From Elda
HOW can we get you a job at New Line? They really, REALLY need your kind of thinking!! Oooh yes; - dreamy mode on: Imagine being a person with the responsibility of studying RotK stills, finding the best ones.... Studying all the cut scenes for stuff that can make trailers and promotional material, studying the actual film scenes, assembling trailers, trying out various combinations of scenes and pictures for the maximum impact on the viewers. Weighing back and forth: Is this shot better than that? Is that a tad too plot-revealing? Do we need to cut this one, or lighten it, or enhance it, or dwell on it? Does he look more angsty in this scene, or in this? Which one has the best Camera Angel?`Imagine having that job! :cool: :swoon:


I know the following comes a couple of days too soon, but I'll be away from here for some days now, and I want to be sure I get to say a proper
Happy birthday on Friday, Erendis and Elevensies!!
Many happy returns of the day to you both! :)

I have obliged by putting up those requested new Lij piccies in Hugs.

Here's a sample....

Doesn't this remind you of....

http://www.angelfire.com/celeb2/elijahw/Lijws4.jpg

.....this?

http://www.angelfire.com/celeb2/elijahw/tttcap_1173.jpg

The One Tear scene...probably the best single shot in the first two movies. Probably will be one of the best in all three though I have high hopes for CU and the Havens.

Hurrah and Whoo-Hoo - deluby is still with us! I thought it must be something to do with EW that was keeping you away from us!

Originally posted by Tg:
Blossom--I completely understand about your not wanting to repeat any of the gifs deluby has done. It's kind of how I feel about my avatars--there are a lot of pics I love that I won't use for an avatar because they "belong" to someone already. (I happened to use one similar to yours before you started using it .)
__________________________________________________

Eer...Sorry, Tg!:o :eek: :)

I just popped the extended DVD in my computer and watched the post-Moria scene again with Director's/writers' commentary on. Ainon, I noticed that at the beginning of the scene they are talking about it being filmed before Ian McKellen arrived in NZ, and either Fran or Phillipa remarks, 'Didn't Sean walk in?' - to which PJ replies - 'No, Sean flew in.'

During the 'Tear shot' Fran or Phillipa comments, 'I remember Elijah saying how you (PJ) gave him a great note when you asked him to turn. You said, "I want your grief to be frightening."'
PJ replies, 'Yes, I wanted it to scare an audience.'

Knowing that this was filmed towards the end of 1999, it's just amazing to think that Elijah was still only 18, and here he is, at that tender age, delivering this sensitive yet overwhelmingly powerful performance!

Tg, that screencap does say it all! Thanks.

Browsing through Elve's site a few days ago I came across a snippet from a review of TTT that I hadn't seen before, and with the 'portraying nothingness' theme in mind, I thought it would fit in here:

Quote - from frodoandsam.net:
"The soul of The Two Towers isn't in the uneasy interweaving of blackwashed battle scenes, or even in Frodo's journey toward Mount Doom. The soul of The Two Towers is in Frodo's anguished face. The shot of Frodo dreaming before a winged Nazgul is the trilogy's most powerful scene so far. As Frodo stands for a soft moment staring at a Black Rider on a winged serpent, his finger gliding toward the Ring, the hobbit's blank facial expression is excruciating. We can't protect him from what he can't see." ~ Russel Swensen, LA Weekly
___________________________________________________

Talking of TTT - on our last viewing (before it disappeared from our local cinema) we sat in the centre at the back - our favourite viewing position - and I found myself watching peoples' reactions. A couple of youngs lads just in front of us looked at each other - mouths wide open in awe - as Legolas swung up to mount his horse with that ease of agility - CGI, of course, but they were very impressed nonetheless! There was warm laughter from most of the audience at the Sam/Gollum PO-TA-TO scene. But the most rewarding thing for me was noticing a couple in their sixties sitting forward in their seats on the same row as us, concentrating intently on the credits right at the end of the film. I cannot express the sense of satisfaction I felt as I heard the husband declare, 'Frodo - Elijah Wood.'

They had been so impressed by our boy that they had purposefully looked for his name in the credits. I just love it when something like that happens.:) Just thought I'd share that with you all.

Maeg - LOL! When are you starting your new job at New Line? ;) They should put you in charge of CU angsty Fro scenes - then you can satisfy all of the Faculty's (and I dare say The Harem's) desires - if you know what I mean! Keep up the good work!

Hi to Peachy. Nice to see you. We had an old friend who lives Down Under (Perth) visit us yesterday. It was great catching up - he's English, but he has gained an Aussie accent!

Peaceweaver - TTT in Greek! Glad you got to see it again. How long is your globetrotting going to last? You seem to have been away from home for ages.

Oh, almost forgot. This is probably the last gif I'll be able to do for a while - software ready to self-destruct tomorrow! It's another example IMO of Elijah's brilliant talent - portraying how Frodo is feeling without uttering a word. In The Prancing Pony, just after Barliman has told him he hasn't seen Gandalf for months:

http://www.imagemagician.com/images/blossom/PP2.gif

Must run. Bye.

Hi Blossom! Hi all!

Blossom, that quote from Russell was so wonderful I sigged it.
And "I want your grief to be frightening". Wow. Wow. And Elijah hadn't even met McKellen then? Blimey. Can I say "wow" again?
Agree, FOTR isn't the best film ever made.. but yes, that One Tear Moria scene is absolutely extraordinary. I love the way Gandalf mutters "fly you fools" instead of shouting. I love the lighting, I love every actor's work from start to beautiful end.

And the pic you attached is another beauty. He looks - just - like someone drew him. Words fail me.

Hey, I'm not far from Perth! Maybe I know your friend. :D

Here's "the tear" to accompany "the look" TG posted earlier.

http://members.lycos.co.uk/duckycc/tear.jpg


Posted by Tg
I mean, what would you say to yourself: "I'm going to make almost-but-not-quite a 180-degree turn. At the start of it I'm going to show absolute numbness and at the end of it will look completely grief-stricken. And during that turn, I'm going to change from one expression to the other so slowly and gradually and consistently (and at exactly the right speed to have reached the final expression I want at precisely the instant I need to reach it) that there's no one moment when the audience will notice the change in progress--all they'll see is the effect of the change as it occurs."
I've been wondering about how he does the timing, I mean that scene looks to me like a single long take that doesn't involve any editing. So did PJ tell him to gradually turn to the camera and have a tear streaming down the face within say, 5 seconds? What if it took him longer to well up the tear? I wonder how many takes they did to get the perfect one. Would it have a lesser impact if that scene is shorter? longer? I remember he said in the cast commentary that he couldn't get a tear out during the Galadriel's mirror scene. But at the end of that scene there's a shot of him with tear in his eye that's about to stream down but the camera cuts away rather quick. So does he mean he couldn't get the tear out within the specific time range?
Sorry, just some of my late night weird thoughts. :rolleyes: :o


Maeglian---LOL! That was brilliant! I hope NL web-monitoring people are taking notes. ;)


Blossom---It's so heartwarming to know that people appreciate EW's performance, especially men. :) And that quote from LA Weekly's TTT reivew, "We can't protect him from what he can't see." LOVE this part. Thanks for sharing with us. :k
Oh, and the new gif, a great little scene, totally agree with you on him excellently portraying Frodo's feeling without a word.
Wouldn't it be interesting if we could see EW in a silent movie or playing a character who doesn't speak throughout the movie? That would give us some chance to study his range. :cool:

Sorry to hear the software expiring so soon though. :(


I've got the One Tear scene gif done, broke it into 3 parts. Here're the beginning and end. The file sizes are bigger than usual, best viewed with image viewer, it doesn't look so smooth in internet browser, or maybe it's just my computer being slow.

http://members.lycos.co.uk/duckycc/gif.gif Turning towards us (450x309, 4.8MB)
http://members.lycos.co.uk/duckycc/20turnm.gif

smaller version (250x172, 1.6MB):
http://members.lycos.co.uk/duckycc/20turns.gif


The Tear (450x338, 4.7MB)
http://members.lycos.co.uk/duckycc/20tearm.gif

smaller version (250x188, 1.6MB)
http://members.lycos.co.uk/duckycc/20tears.gif

Had to spend a few minutes of appreciative One Tear gazing before I could get on to typing anything resembling a coherent reply. Wow.

Actually I wonder about that too, deluby - whether that single tear was done on purpose (but how does he do it then, without blinking his eyes to squeeze the tear out?), or if that was one of those shots that just turned out perfectly. And was it because of this post-Moria One Tear that PJ got the idea that Elijah could do it again for the mirror scene - because wasn't that what Elijah said was PJ's direction? To get one tear ... but there he was, standing before Cate Blanchett, close to crying, but couldn't get that one tear? Somehow I also get the impression that Elijah wasn't supposed to actually cry in that scene, but juts have that tear in his eye.

Thanks deluby & Blossom, for additional gifs! :k I'm so sorry about the expiry of your gifting time, Blossom. So unfair. But oh, that quote from Russel was marvelous! And Peachy's picked the best part to sig. :) Ah, Russel. There's another wise man who can join Bob and King Lamoni as our honourary Faculty men. Oh, and I too was delighted to hear that a nice gentleman stayed to find out who was the magnificent young man who had so brilliantly portrayed Frodo. Not that I'm biased or anything. Not at all.

There's an article I posted some weeks back, where Elijah talked about the "I want your grief to be frightening" direction too. Really interesting. I'd try and dig it up again, but my home computer's too slow to cope with that *and* gif-downloads.

Great comparison there, Hobmom. Which reminds me ... enaiowen (where are you, dear? ;)) pointed out to me that there's another instance in TTT where light plays on Frodo's face: the moment in Osgiliath that Russel describes so well above, when Frodo has closed his eyes and is about to slip the Ring onto his finger - which I think was the closest the Ring ever came to getting him to do that without a fight, and the Ring could achieve this only by 'turning off' Frodo's senses. The light plays on his face straight through till the moment Sam pulls him back. deluby - could you gif this, perhaps, if you see it too? Pretty please? Pretty pretty please? :)



A cuople more quotes from the Billy Boyd interview: (http://filmforce.ign.com/articles/393/393444p4.html)


IGNFF: I thought it was interesting, watching the DVD set and the behind-the-scenes material, the relationship that everyone seemed to have with Elijah – as far as this almost older brother picking on younger brother type of relationship.

BOYD: Yeah, it's funny actually just thinking about it now. With him playing Frodo, him being the ring bearer, and how much people tried to look after Elijah was amazing. And not because he was young, because even then – when he was 18 or whatever – he's always acted a lot older than he is, I think. But he was also working harder than anyone else. When we would occasionally get a day off, or a few a days in a row off, and Elijah just had no time off in the whole of the filming, you know? So it was always nice to kind of... if he was working and we weren't, me, Dom, and Orlando might arrange a barbecue that he could come 'round and we'd have it all fixed up. So yeah, it was weird. He was a kind of ring bearer in some ways.

IGNFF: How would you relieve the stress during the day?

BOYD: Oh, we did a lot of stuff. I can sleep on a moments notice, as can Elijah. In fact, Elijah said to me a couple weeks ago – I said, "I'm quite tired." And he said, "So am I." I just thought, "We've said this a lot to each other." He said, "Yeah, I'm with you, I'm always on that side of going to sleep." You know, we're always on that side of being able to sleep, so I spent a lot of time sleeping, to be honest. As did Elijah. Dom, when they first arrived, couldn't take a nap during the day. So he'd get really pissed off at me, that if he'd want to play chess or something, I'd say, "Oh, just have a nap." But by the end, he was as good as any of us at kind of catching an hour in the afternoon.




Almost Friday here, so I'll shout out early wishes to Elevensies and erendis :)

Happy Birthday!!!

My present to you, courtesy of Billy Boyd (may I not be sued) - the complete rules to Tig.

IGNFF: So when is there going to be the home version of Tig?

BOYD: This is great, because the whole idea of that story – you know, people keep asking us for the rules and stuff. The whole idea is that we just made it up, in that moment, that day. So the rest of the rules – the whole thing was, everything Elijah said, we said he couldn't do it... "You can't double tag a tig!" ;)

http://maggiebear.crosswinds.net/fellowship13/lotr123.jpg
Well, it's a scene from a birthday party! And I imagine that's how he'd look when learning about Tig rules! And he looks nice. Courtesy of http://maggiebear.crosswinds.net

Thanks, Blossom & erendis, for helping sort out the Sean Bean moutaineering timeline. :)

Thanks for the screencaps tg. You're right: his face really does look empty, all the muscles are slack. Its as if he's too shocked to be able to react.

I've just watched Bashki's version btw and can confidently say that I prefer EWs version of Frodo to Bashkis. Surprise! ;) Tho Bashki's wasn't too bad actually; not nearly as awful as I had braced myself for :p (very odd mixture of animation styles though).

I think EW's Frodo , apart from being much more beautiful of course, has a lot more depth. I know that its hard to show depth in an animated character but still: I never really *liked* animated Frodo, neither did I get the feeling that he and Sam were really that close. EW and Astin have done a much better job in that respect. Maybe its a simple body language thing: you can read a lot more subtleties in a real human body than you can in animation. Thank god Jackson didn't go for animation a la Shrek!!!
(I love Shrek by the way but think for real human drama, and I use the word human very broadly here, you need real characters and not animation.)

For a double birthday, we need a big cake--as the Baggins boys knew quite well :cool: --

http://www.imagemagician.com/images/tgshaw/cropcap334.jpg

HAPPY BIRTHDAY Elevensies & erendis!!


Prim--I can add a "me, too" to all you've said about animation (and as someone else who doesn't think Bakshi's version was "horrible"--at least he included the Conspiracy and the stand at the ford... the rotoscope technique he used was brand-new, and the experiment does look a bit weird at times, but it paved the way for the not-so-weird-looking version used today).

But, yes, there's something about the human presence that can't be drawn or computerized--IMVVHO because we don't totally understand human emotions. You can't computerize what you can't put into numbers. Remember that statement awhile back, when the action figures were being made, that, even though the process was all done with computer scans of the actors, they just couldn't get a figure that was a good "match" for Elijah? I think he presents the general "problem" with human beings, but on a more noticeable level than most. As marvelous as CGI Gollum is, if Andy Serkis had actually been able to act the character onscreen (after emaciating himself for a few months :rolleyes: ), IMO he would have been even more nuanced.

Originally posted by ainon
Ah, Russel. There's another wise man who can join Bob and King Lamoni as our honourary Faculty men.
Well, I just had to make a quick statement here on King Lamoni's behalf--Russel and Bob might be "honorary" [or "honourary" :p ] members, but since King Lamoni reads the thread and posts here (although not nearly often enough :( ), he's the real deal :) .

Originally posted by deluby
Wouldn't it be interesting if we could see EW in a silent movie or playing a character who doesn't speak throughout the movie? That would give us some chance to study his range.
'Course, it doesn't have the range an entire movie would, but we do see a fair number of emotion changes during the time from "Nooooo" to "What will I see?" -- just under 11 minutes in the theatrical version and just under 14 minutes in the extended version (uh, yeah, I did a bit of "empirical research" there). A big risk, according to at least one Hollywood insider, to have your main character on-screen almost constantly--but silent--for that amount of time. But IMHO a risk that paid off beautifully.

Regarding the comments on the timing, etc., in the One Tear scene (in which there are at least three tears--all quite visible in deluby's zoomed-in pic): I wonder, too, how many takes were needed to get that "simple" perfection (or was it like Huck Finn & Elijah pulled it off on the first try?). There's so much going on there that it's possible the number of tears, and whether they fell or not, wasn't the main consideration in which take to use. I can see that shot as almost needing to be a "dance" between Elijah and the person operating the camera--reminds me again that acting is an art, not a science (much as we'd love, sometimes, to be able to figure it all out :p ).

Originally posted by Hobmom
The One Tear scene...probably the best single shot in the first two movies. Probably will be one of the best in all three though I have high hopes for CU and the Havens.
OME, Hobmom! The tear scene completely stops my breathing. If there's something better in RotK, they will need rescue units on hand. (Maybe the theaters will have to use signs similar to the ones they used for some of the monster movies in the 1950's: "The theater is not responsible for any effects the shock of this movie might cause." :eek: )

Originally posted by Blossom
During the 'Tear shot' Fran or Phillipa comments, 'I remember Elijah saying how you (PJ) gave him a great note when you asked him to turn. You said, "I want your grief to be frightening."'
PJ replies, 'Yes, I wanted it to scare an audience.'

Thanks for that quote, Blossom. I'd heard the "frightening grief" comment applied both to that shot and to the "Noooo," and wasn't sure which one it was actually referring to. I'm glad it's the "tear shot," though--IMHO that's much more frightening emotionally than the "Noooo."

--------------------

Originally posted by BLOSSOM
Originally posted by Tg:
Blossom--...there are a lot of pics I love that I won't use for an avatar because they "belong" to someone already. (I happened to use one similar to yours before you started using it.)
__________________________________________________

Eer...Sorry, Tg!)
Good heavens, Blossom :eek: -- I hope you didn't think I was saying you shouldn't use your avatar because I'd previously had it up for a day!! All I was trying to say was that I loved the pic enough to use it, but I'd tried not to "break my rule" of using someone else's--sorry for the miscommunication! (BTW, I've given up worrying about overlapping with "shifting" avatars such as deluby's--I think we've already used a number of the same shots. I just try to stay away from pics that identify someone.) I've been so busy with screencaps lately that I'm actually down to a "stock" of a dozen avatars--in the past, I usually had at least 30 waiting in the wings. Who knows, one of these days I may decide to just pick one :eek: --it's been over six months since I started this, which might be long enough :) . [But then the TTT DVD will come out and there will be all these wonderful pics :rolleyes: ...]

--------------------

P.S. I'm off to my mom's for Easter so will be away from any computer til late Sunday or early Monday. So, speaking of avatars, I tried to leave one no one would mind looking at for a few days. Interesting that he looks so serious so close to the beginning of FotR (a thought I'm in the process of building a page around).

I've been really busy this week - spent Monday night in the hospital with my youngest (she's fine now, but it did sort of knock my schedule for a loop), add in church every night and haven't had much free time this week, but had to drop in to wish erendis and Elevensies a

Happy Birthday!

and to leave a couple of Faculty cakes in their honor:

http://www.clarke.k12.ga.us/bhl/images/pictures/bookfair/cake.jpg

http://renoir.villanova.edu/faculty/jantzen/html/drbob/recipes/images/cheeseck.gif

That one's a limoncello cheesecake - limoncello being some sort of Italian lemon liquor. The Faculty isn't known for cheesecake indulgence, but I thought today we might make an exception. Maybe ainon will indulge me in some pictures appropriate to cheesecake consumption. Actually, considering some of the pics posted on this page so far, maybe that'd be redundant. ;)

Thinking of a Faculty moot...

http://pages.prodigy.net/michaelhammond/images/Animated/jumprope.gif

Sheryl

Happy Bithday erendis and Elevensies!!! :)

What happened to your little one Sheryl? Everything ok now?

HAPPY BIRTHDAY ELEVENSIES AND ERENDIS!!! :) :) :)

Originally quoted by Tg:
Good heavens, Blossom -- I hope you didn't think I was saying you shouldn't use your avatar because I'd previously had it up for a day!! All I was trying to say was that I loved the pic enough to use it, but I'd tried not to "break my rule" of using someone else's--sorry for the miscommunication!
_________________________________________________

Oh no, Tg - I didn't think that at all!!!:k My, 'Eer... sorry, Tg!' was merely a jest! He does look very good there, though, doesn't he?
Enjoy your Easter break with your mom - hope she is well.

Peachy - Nice to know - however inadvertently - I helped you decide on a sig. :)

deluby - wonderful 'One Tear' gifs. Thanks! I now appreciate your efforts all the more knowing how much work it involves! Also I LOVE the close-up tear pic you posted. Brings a lump to the throat.

Originally quoted by deluby:
Blossom---It's so heartwarming to know that people appreciate EW's performance, especially men. And that quote from LA Weekly's TTT reivew, "We can't protect him from what he can't see." LOVE this part. Thanks for sharing with us.
_________________________________________________

Yes, deluby - I see this as an interesting statement about the reviewer's appreciation of Elijah's performance here, and his understanding - and this is how I see it too - of what is happening to Frodo. He talks about Frodo's 'blank facial expression,' being excruciating. 'We can't protect him from what he can't see,' is, I think, very powerful. As I read it the reviewer isn't seeing Frodo as being weak for succumbing to the Ring's will - he's seeing Frodo as a character who has been 'possessed' by an outside force over which he has no control. It's not so much Frodo thinking, 'I may as well give in to temptation, I can't fight it anymore. It will be a relief to get it over with,' as both the Ring and Sauron himself exerting an overwhelming force - in the close presence of the Nazgul - to 'use' Frodo in order to achieve their own desire. And I think it's clear in this scene that there's absolutely nothing Frodo can do about it. As Russel suggests, Frodo is essentially blind, unseeing, unaware of his own actions, or of his peril. He can't 'see' the Nazgul because he's not Frodo. Frodo is not there. At this particular point in time Frodo has ceased to be. And I think it's important to note that it's only Sam's 'Don't you know your Sam?' that somehow reaches beyond the 'possession' and brings him back.

I've just realised I may be going off-topic, talking too much Frodo again, so I'd better stop - except to say this is the scene that has caused so much heartbreak for many Frodo-centric posters here, but whatever our personal feelings may be, I think the way this particular reviewer 'reads' it is exactly how PJ & co. intended it to be. Whether you like the Osgiliath scene or not, agree or disagree with it's inclusion in the film at all, there's no denying Elijah played it brilliantly. Now it will be interesting to see if there's any hint regarding PJ's directorial instructions to Elijah for this particular scene in the (I'm assuming here there will be one) Director's/writer's team commentary track on the extended Two Towers DVD! Can't wait.

Originally quoted by ainon:
enaiowen (where are you, dear? ) pointed out to me that there's another instance in TTT where light plays on Frodo's face: the moment in Osgiliath that Russel describes so well above, when Frodo has closed his eyes and is about to slip the Ring onto his finger - which I think was the closest the Ring ever came to getting him to do that without a fight, and the Ring could achieve this only by 'turning off' Frodo's senses. The light plays on his face straight through till the moment Sam pulls him back. deluby - could you gif this, perhaps, if you see it too? Pretty please? Pretty pretty please?
_________________________________________________

Oh yes, ainon. May I add a few more 'pleases' and 'pretty pleases' to that, deluby?'
Oh and ainon, thanks for those Billy Boyd quotes. It's good to hear how the other cast members thought about Elijah, taking the time to prepare barbecues and generally look after him when he was working so hard!

Prim, I do remember seeing the Bashki lotr many years ago
on TV. Can't recollect clearly, but have vague visions of animation and live action sort of merged together!? Or am I just confused again? Of course, no other incarnation of Frodo could possibly compare to Elijah!!!

Sheryl and Tg - Makes me feel peckish just looking at those goodies in your pics - naughty but nice! A - very small - slice of cheesecake never hurt anyone - did it?:confused: :) That's a cute little smiley you have there, Sheryl. Hope your daughter is feeling better after her visit to the hospital.

Reckon I've rambled on for long enough, so I'll say goodnight.
Goodnight.

http://members.lycos.co.uk/duckycc/smilies/happybday2.gif HAPPY BIRTHDAY ELEVENSIES & ERENDIS!!!!!! http://members.lycos.co.uk/duckycc/smilies/happybday2.gif

http://members.lycos.co.uk/duckycc/smilies/happybday.gif http://members.lycos.co.uk/duckycc/smilies/drink.gif



Sheryl, I hope the little one is OK now. http://members.lycos.co.uk/duckycc/smilies/hug.gif



posted by ainon
The light plays on his face straight through till the moment Sam pulls him back. deluby - could you gif this, perhaps, if you see it too? Pretty please? Pretty pretty please? Absolutely! Here it is.

(388x272, 1.8mb)
http://members.lycos.co.uk/duckycc/osgring.gif

and a smaller version(250x175, 827kb)
http://members.lycos.co.uk/duckycc/osgrings.gif

I made the Sam pulling him back part into a separate gif so it won't be one big file. But of course if anyone wants to see the two parts as one animation, I can put them together.

While I was screencapping that part I caught something that I didn't see before, when Sam's pulling Frodo back, the ring actually slips onto Frodo's finger for a spilt second. :eek: Have we talked about this before? I remember we talked about whether Sam touches the ring during that scene, but what about Frodo? It looks like the struggle causes him to push the ring onto his finger but quickly removes it. If the ring has been on a portion of his finger, shouldn't Frodo turn invisible for that tiny second? :confused:

Here's the gif of that scene, someone please tell me I'm not hallucinating. (I had each frame going about half a second so it should be slow enough to see)

(388x272, 1.2mb)
http://members.lycos.co.uk/duckycc/osgringoffp.gif


And here are two screencaps of that:
http://members.lycos.co.uk/duckycc/ringon1.jpg

http://members.lycos.co.uk/duckycc/ringon2.jpg

Gee this is a wonderful discussion--and the gifs are eye-popping. Thanks!

Can't stay today, but I wanted to drop in quickly to say,

Happy Birthday, Elevensies and Erendis!


Hope I'm not too late!

Hmmmmmmm some little hobbit-addict has been deleting my posts......

how undemocratic and infantile LOL

truth hurts


Regards,
chris

deluby - wonderful, wonderful gifs. Thanks. :k Yep, the Ring definitely slips onto Fro's finger for a second there.

I can't wait until the DVD comes out so I can REALLY study all of Frodo's scenes with the advantage of the pause/replay button!:) I'm having withdrawal symptoms from not seeing TTT for a few weeks. It's alright for these people - deluby;) - who already have permanent access to TT Frodo (I won't ask how), but I'm green with envy.:( :p :rolleyes: :)

Btw deluby, I checked my animation software before I came here, and it's telling me I am on day 31 of a 30 day trial period, and that after 60 days it will not run, unless I then purchase a licenced version. It's still working at the moment, though, so perhaps I will get a few more gifs in before it actually does expire. Yippee!!:)

Hi, Peaceweaver. Still on your travels?

Haven't seen EE or Luthiea here for a few days. And I don't recall seeing Bunnie for a while. Hope you are all OK.

Prim, Viola, Azalea - Hope you are all bearing up to RL.

Bye.

from BLOSSOM
I do remember seeing the Bashki lotr many years ago
on TV. Can't recollect clearly, but have vague visions of animation and live action sort of merged together!? Or am I just confused again? Of course, no other incarnation of Frodo could possibly compare to Elijah!!!

Yes, that's the one. I found the switching of styles jarring and distracting: I think he would have done better to choose one style and stick to it. I was expecting a very ugly Frodo but Bashki's Frodo is not too bad. But as you say: not a patch on the Jackson/EW version. My kids' reactions were interesting: the five year old enjoyed it and the eight year old was appalled (Sam! Oooh yuck. He sucks! I think Jonathan has turned into a Jackson Purist :eek: :) )

I watched Chain of Fools last night. To my absolute amazement it actually turned up here in a small Northland town.:confused: I've never actually bothered looking for these EW movies on the theory nothing obscure comes here so why waste effort. But clearly the presence of an erstwhile hobbit makes these movies marketable here so I must roll up my sleeves and take a good look around for others.

I enjoyed the movie; its a very silly piece of fluff. Mikey has to be the most exquisitely angelic looking seventeen year hitman ever to appear in a movie! I can see why it didn't get released though: it somehow doesn't have the slick feel that the big movies have and sometimes the comic timing seemed a bit off. Must detour back some pages and find the previous discussion of it...

Prim!! How exciting that you actually found Chain of Fools! Go you! I agree wholeheartedly with your assessment of Mikey. What a kick!

ainon, thanks so much for posting that excerpt from the Billy Boyd interview. The whole thing is really an eye-opener, I thought, as it gave me an increased respect for Billy. He seems like a very nice man. I am awestruck at the description of Elijah's workload for the length of the filming. No wonder he returned to LA and just vegetated for a while.

Blossom, you are sweet to ask about my travels. Yes I am still on the road. Still in Greece. Hither and yon with a group of college students. If I can survive this, I will be the stronger for it. The question is whether I can survive! :)

Seeing TTT with Greek subtitles was a complete hoot! The only place where there was some difficulty was during the passages when Elvish was being spoken. They didn't provide English language subtitles for those portions. So it is a good thing :rolleyes: that I had already seen the film enough to know what was going on....;)

I keep hoping that an older EW film will appear on TV here. A few days ago, the paper suggested that the Faculty would be on, but it didn't happen. :(

But hope remains!

from tgAgility, speed, timing--not bad. But he was 17 then--could he do the same kind of stuff now that he's an "old man"?

Was he seventeen in real life? I thought CoF came after LoTR? Or am I muddling it with Try 17???

CoF Spoiler Alert











Well. Is Mikey a hit man or not? I was rewatching some scenes (the smashed chair scene-my favourite since I've suffered that sort of random rudeness from people in cafes before...) and suddenly thought: in the chair scene Mikey acts like a hitman ie with an unexpected and inappropriate burst of violence, but once we get to the near end of the film we find out he hadn't "hit" the senator at all, and he never actually shoots anyone on camera.

However; his entrance to the apartment of umm, the theif(can't recollect the name but Goldblum plays him) is suitably hitmanish, so is his rapid exit from the hospital, and from the bathroom:rolleyes:, and he has a gun with a silencer. Not to mention the fact that the inadvertent death of the old guy doesn't bother him at all.

So is he a delusional, lonely, 17 year old with a dramatic bent or a genuine youthful sociopath?

Prim-

So is he a delusional, lonely, 17 year old with a dramatic bent or a genuine youthful sociopath?

Yes, to the first part of your question.

Really, that's what I've gotten from what I've seen of Chof. He's like a kid who's watched way too many cop chase films and TV shows and believes he's in one of them. Poor Mikey! And that part about him being an orphan of suicidal parents. I always think his parents are just fine upscale professionals living in Larchmont.

Happy Easter to Sheryl, tg, et al!

Hope you had a fine time with your mom, tg. How's she doing?

tgshaw:
I'd heard the "frightening grief" comment applied both to that shot and to the "Noooo," and wasn't sure which one it was actually referring to. I'm glad it's the "tear shot," though--IMHO that's much more frightening emotionally than the "Noooo."

Reposting the Elijah quote from Starburst (http://www.visimag.com/starburst/293_feat01.htm)

One of Wood’s most challenging moments in The Fellowship of the Ring occurred when Frodo watches in horror as Gandalf perishes at the hands of the demonic Balrog. “I already had it my head that I had to be extremely affected by Gandalf’s death,” says Wood, “since he was my great friend, really like a family member to Frodo. Well, Peter gave me a interesting piece of direction that day. He said, ‘I want your reaction and the look on your face, to scare the audience, because they’ve never seen Frodo look like this before, or be in this much despair’. I felt that was a really good piece of direction, because it drove me to make the shot far more profound and more heartbreaking. It was an interesting thing to get my head around, because it was open-ended enough, that I could play with that thought and make it into whatever I wanted, within the guidelines that Peter had given me.”

From this quote I got the impression that he was talking about "Noooo", but what I settled on in the end was that the direction could have applied for both scenes - who knows when and where and in what sequence the "Noooo" was filmed, after all. Elijah would have simply needed to keep PJ's original direction in mind. We'll save that as one of the questions we can ask Elijah during our Faculty moot. ;) :D

Initially I was very confused about what Philippa and PJ were talking about in the commentary, because I couldn't figure out where the 'scare an audience' aspect would fit in for the "tear shot". The discussions here have helped me understand now.


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Blossom, the Hobbits' commentaries for TTT have been done, apparently. And John Howe's had his looksee and whatsay on the extended version too. I've no doubt PJ & co will sit down together sometime and record their commentaries as well - maybe they've done so already. I'm so looking forward to hearing them all again (I hope all four hobbits were together!) - I'm also including the likes of Richard Taylor and Andrew Lesnie and Barrie Osbourne and the Production Team and the Design Team and John Rhys-Davies and Christopher Lee. All of them! I'm as excited to listen to 'em as much as I'm looking forward to seeing new scenes!

Btw, Blossom - may I just say how much I love you when you go off-topic on Frodo? ;) Agree with you. And also very, very happy to know you've got a good 20+ days for gifting, still!

Speaking of which ... THANK YOU, DELUBY! I think it works splendidly as two separate gifs. :k

Interesting thing there, with the Ring. Never would have been able to tear my eyes away from his face if I were trying to watch this on screen, so your gif and caps were much appreciated! Well, the movie invisibility doesn't
seem to happen immediately - there's always like a slight 'lag', isn't there? Not enough time then, this time, for the invisibility to kick in. Although the real question should really be what physics is at work that allows clothes to go all invisible too ... with the exception of popped buttons. :D

--------------

Prim - that's cool that you've gotten acquainted with 'Hitman' Mikey. He made that movie before LOTR, but it was just never released in the USA. Hobmom - LOL! It never occurred to me, but you're right. Mikey's parents could be alive and well; nice, decent, normal people lurking just somewhere off-screen, totally unaware of their son's aspirations!

--------------


peaceweaver - just how long are you gonna be abroad? :eek: :) We didn't get English subtitles for Elvish for FotR, but fortunately we got them with TTT.


-------------

{{{Sheryl & Sheryl's littlest one}}} :k

Some AngstyHobbit for mum,
http://www.classicxf.com/images/FOTR/extended2/544lorien.jpg

Some HappyHobbit for the kiddo,
http://www.classicxf.com/images/FOTR/shire/002bshire.jpg

And something from TTT just because.
http://www.classicxf.com/images/TTT/smeagol/taming117.jpg

images from http://www.classicxf.com. So. That's for cheesecake. What do I have to do to get chocolate cake around here? ;)

Hi all, I'm back from easter vacation and sporting a very nice tan, too! :D
From Sheryl
The Faculty isn't known for cheesecake indulgence, but I thought today we might make an exception. First things first, Sheryl; - I hope your little one is OK?
Otherwise, bring on the cheesecake, is my opinion. And anyway, the Harem is contemplating swapping the cheesecake for Blueberry lembas, it seems, due to the total and continueing RotK Frodo deprivation. Your cake looks utterly delicious. Perfect to go with all the *nice* pics ainon kindly has posted..... :D
From ainon
And I imagine that's how he'd look when learning about Tig rules! You know, this Tig thing sounds suspiciously like Calvinball. And Calvinball looks like the coolest game ever, so that's no criticism from my side, to be sure! According to Calvin&Hobbes creator Bill Watterson the rules are simple: You make them up as you go. And you can't play it the same way twice. I wonder whether Billy and Dom had read Calvin and Hobbes and (subconsciously?) got their inspiration for Tig from Calvinball?

Anyway, since no new RotK info may be fortcoming until autumn :( (ref. info from Meryl Marie in the Harem), we should perhaps come up with our very own Faculty-ball&tig game to keep the activity here going while we're waiting? :cool:

From Prim
So is he a delusional, lonely, 17 year old with a dramatic bent or a genuine youthful sociopath? Nice that you got hold of CoF, Prim! :) I'm with Hobmom on the interpretation of that one. Totally delusional kid, going expertly through the motions of portraying tough hitman as seen on a million TV shows. If Jeff Goldblum had appeared when Mikey was checking out his appartment, Mikey'd probably have screamed, run and/or fainted. :D However, it's a bit "scary" that he doesn't react more to the actual death of Tom Wilkerson's character, I suppose...... He's probably not able to distinguish reality from fantasy anymore at all at that point. :eek:


Thanks for the gifs, Deluby. :)
The Ring is indeed slipping onto Frodo's finger there. I must admit I have seen that as a possible "blooper", but one that may reasonably be interpreted like ainon does in the post above. Well, certainly there *are* worse errors and continuity problems in the film than that one..... And with the quick blur of motion in that scene, I'm not entirely sure that PJ directed this so that the Ring absolutely *had* to slip briefly over the finger. I think it just happened, yet turned out nicely to serve to show that Sam's action came in the absolute nick of time.


Enough yacking from me, I suppose. :rolleyes:

Just saw "Ash Wednesday" with EW and Edward Burns aka Frannie. My question for those who've seen it.... Well, don't want any spoilers here.... what did you think of the ending? I think it was deliberate. Interesting movie, btw. EW did a good job.

Quick post and run!





TTT DVD SPOILER ALERT


BIG HUGE IMAGES





prepare to hyperventilate ...





don't say I didn't warn you.




and yeah, I'm shutting up already.



DVD theatrical version menu screencaps from this page http://www.theonering.net/scrapbook/group/759

http://img-nex.theonering.net/images/scrapbook/6388.jpg
http://img-nex.theonering.net/images/scrapbook/6389.jpg

Special features menu: http://www.theonering.net/scrapbook/group/759/view/6393


http://www.theonering.net/scrapbook/group/758
selection of fantastic high-resolution wallpapers - as well as the DVD and VHS artwork for the Two Towers theatrical release. part of the special Two Towers Digital Announce Kit.

http://img-nex.theonering.net/images/scrapbook/6381.jpg
http://img-nex.theonering.net/images/scrapbook/6382.jpg


Additional info from http://www.lightsoutentertainment.com/news/news.php?id=936

http://lightsout.bla-bla.com/gallery/2/tv/frodo.jpg





















spoiler space





Quick welcome back wave to Maeg. :cool:

And a 'yes, I think it was deliberate :p' reply to Terry. :) Gotta run now!

{{{{Faculty}}}}

Whoa, sweet pics, Ainon!

You DO think it was deliberate? How sad.
Yes, do watch Faculty. That's my next DVD purchase. What a cult classic! Rodriquez strikes again.

Hi Prim! It’s nice to see you again. :)

I watched Chain of Fools again on the weekend too – it was late at night, there was nothing on TV and it seemed as good a choice as anything to watch. I’d forgotten that it’s really very funny too. (Although I agree, Prim, not polished.)


***CofF spoilers***








I agree Prim: Mikey is the most beautiful hardened criminal I’ve ever seen! And I would have said ‘gentlest’ (soft of speech, not too much bash and crash). But ‘is chair being used’ scene does show that he can be volatile, if not out and out violent.

I initially shared the concerns about the focus on suicide. But seeing it again, no one’s parents left life naturally! Parental suicide was something of a leitmotif! It didn’t occur to me that Mikey might be living in his own little fantasy world - I believed him absolutely (!) and felt quite cranky with the Steve Zahn character for brushing him off like that (‘poor little Mikey’). While I thought his response to Bollingsworth’s(?) ultimate death was a bit cold, there was another person there who was equally as unaffected – perhaps they didn’t want to lose face in front of each other???

One question, though, if he wasn’t a fully fledged hitman how did he get on the hoodlum’s books as an assassin for hire? And what are GEDs?







***end spoilers***

In regard to ‘frightening grief’, I’ve listened to just the soundtrack of FOTR and TTT (ie without the pictures), which I found an extremely interesting experience. The ‘Nooooooooo’ is agonising to listen to, it’s incredibly grief-filled. In TTT I was torn apart by the way Frodo cries out ‘Gandalf’, I think it’s twice before he cries ‘nooooo’. That is the last sound that Gandalf hears as he begins to fall with the Balrog. Devastating stuff, and, yes, frightening too.


Ainon – those DVD menus are great aren’t they? Excellent pictures! And this means things are starting to happen … doesn’t it?

I hope your daughter is feeling much better now, Sheryl. :)

(BTW does any one know of a free image hosting site, like Imagewhateveritwascalled? I would like to post pictures, but haven’t got a place to store them to link from.)

Originally posted by Maeglian
You know, this Tig thing sounds suspiciously like Calvinball.
The rules sure do sound like Calvinball from your description, Maeg. Since I first heard of it (Tig), I've associated it with snipe hunting. (A snipe is actually a type of real bird, but let's just say when a group of kids take a new friend out at night to go "snipe hunting," there are no snipes around and the new kid gets literally "left holding the bag.")





CofF spoilers






I'm with Hobmom on the interpretation of that one. Totally delusional kid, going expertly through the motions of portraying tough hitman as seen on a million TV shows... However, it's a bit "scary" that he doesn't react more to the actual death of Tom Wilkerson's character, I suppose......
I agree with the "delusional kid" interpretation, too. The chair-bashing scene was a bit unsettling and he does actually shoot at the other hitman during the chase in the hallway, but if he's really living out what he's seen, I suppose he might just do those things. IMHO, those are also the kinds of things that could have gotten him on the list of "professionals."

The lack of reaction to the death didn't bother me, because I thought both "hitmen" were just completely relieved that the guy died on his own and neither one of them had to shoot him (seems to me a professional hitman would have just unhooked the guy's life support, anyway--hook it back up after he's dead, and there might not even be an investigation).

Like estella, though, I saw the suicide/parental suicide "thing" as a running theme throughout the movie, so I didn't doubt that part of the story--although maybe I should have! IMHO, something affected Mikey pretty severely to make him drop out of school and take up a "life of crime." If it wasn't his parents' deaths, maybe it was the Senator's suicide that sent him over the edge (hmmm... interesting thought, since he seems to have "fixated" on the event--was he so affected by that experience that in his mind it's become linked to his parents?). If his parents are alive, they're evidently pretty out of touch with their son (maybe the two Mikey's do have something in common :eek: ).

BTW, the GED is the "General Equivalency Diploma"--it's a program for people who dropped out of high school before graduating. They can take the GED test and, if they pass it, they're given a diploma that legally is the "equivalent" of a high school diploma (for example, if they apply for a job that asks for a high school graduate). If Mikey's "studying for the GED," it means he's preparing to take that test.







End of CofF spoilers





The Ring is indeed slipping onto Frodo's finger there. I must admit I have seen that as a possible "blooper", but one that may reasonably be interpreted like ainon does in the post above... ...yet turned out nicely to serve to show that Sam's action came in the absolute nick of time.
Speaking from long-time fantasy reader mode, we are dealing with magic here, which doesn't always follow the logical rules of science (although magic follows it's own rules, even those who wield it don't always understand them completely--speaking of fictional magic, here). So this kind of thing doesn't bother me--along with disappearing clothes, Bilbo and Frodo disappearing differently (hand first, hand last) etc.

Most of my attention during that gif was on the faces--I hadn't noticed before how clearly Frodo's in pain (after the calm)--and how that pain increases as Sam pulls the Ring away from his finger. Sam, OTOH, is so focused on what he's doing that his expression doesn't seem to change at all--and if he notices Frodo's reaction, he's certainly steeled himself against it; it doesn't seem he even looks at Frodo's face, though.



Lovely pics, ainon--I'm assuming you did a bit of picking and choosing. We couldn't be so lucky that no one but Frodo, Sam and Gollum ended up with their pics on the DVD :p . BTW, any word on the date the theatrical version DVD will be released?





Ash Wednesday spoilers





Terry, I agree with the ending of Ash Wednesday being deliberate--in a way. That entire movie, IMHO, tends to be rather unclear about things like that; I don't know if that's purposeful or just comes from the screenplay needing some polishing.

My "in a way" comes from the question of whether Francis knew there was someone still looking for Sean--besides the men who'd already been killed. But there are a number of things in that movie that don't make sense to me (to put it mildly :rolleyes: ). If Francis' purpose was to make the others think they'd killed Sean, wouldn't they find out later that it had been Francis (from the newspaper or something)? And because of the whole theme of the movie, and especially the symbolism that hits the viewer over the head with a sledgehammer in that particular scene, I don't think Francis is supposed to have gone out there suicidally just to get killed--he had to be doing it for Sean, or the entire symbolism goes down the drain. And if there's one thing Ed Burns doesn't allow to go down the drain in this movie, it's the symbolism. Logic, however, is frequently ignored... Can you tell this isn't one of my favorite movies :rolleyes: ? -- Although it does have some good things going on in the cinematography, lighting, atmosphere and mood, and-- it definitely has a lot of symbolism.





End Ash Wednesday spoilers








ainon--My mom's doing well. She'd asked me to bring a movie along so she could use the VCR my brother gave her, so I brought as many as I could fit into my carrying case and left them with her. She wanted no violence (I think FotR was a bit much for her, even though we skipped some of the scenes), which limits things even for EJW's movies. So I pointed out to her that I'd been very good and only brought two Elijah Wood movies (Avalon and Forever Young). But I talked about how wonderful Avalon is, and when she brought up Mel Gibson in a conversation I made sure to point out that he was in Forever Young :p .

She does try to remember things she thinks I might be interested in, although she also has a tendency to muddle things, and she told me one thing that--IF TRUE (which I doubt)--would have to gain her not only honorary Faculty status but some kind of an award. If anyone finds out that somehow Elijah shot a movie last year with Mel Gibson (hence the above conversation) that none of us have heard about, remember my mother knew about it first... ;)

Originally posted by tgshaw
BTW, any word on the date the theatrical version DVD will be released? August 26 for the theatrical version and November 18 for the extended version, according to TORN.

Have I said "Welcome" to Terry yet? If not, then - Welcome! And Hi, estella rose and Gladys. Always glad to see you guys pop out of lurkdom.

Originally posted by tgshaw
CofF spoilers



(seems to me a professional hitman would have just unhooked the guy's life support, anyway--hook it back up after he's dead, and there might not even be an investigation).





I'll just second all of tg's observations on CoF, except this one - I'm pretty sure a professional hitman wouldn't unhook lifesupport because there are alarms built into the system that would bring people running (they should have gone off when he died naturally and brought people running to interrupt the "wanna go to a movie?" conversation, come to think of it).

End of CofF spoilers

I'm glad to hear your mom is doing well, tg. :)

Thanks for all the positive thoughts toward my hospitalized child, everybody. She spent most of the Easter service dancing (we retreated to the library and the lounge, naturally), so I'd say she's fully recovered. I may have figured out why I'm so wiped lately, though - she's no longer my youngest. ;)

Sheryl

Sheryl, am I correct that congratulations are in order? Very best wishes to you!

tg, with all respect to your mom, I hope she's wrong about Mel Gibson and Elijah Wood working together again. Gibson has been involved for months in a biblical epic that he is both backing and starring in, and in which not one word of English will be spoken. :confused:

Originally posted by shilohmm
I may have figured out why I'm so wiped lately, though - she's no longer my youngest. ;)

Good grief, it really is contagious, isn't it? :eek: (There are currently three pregnant Haremites lurking around...)

Congratulations, Sheryl!

Mel

Congratulations, Sheryl. :)

Originally posted by Maeglian
You know, this Tig thing sounds suspiciously like Calvinball.That's going into the sig. :D

I've lost track of the ob/gyn bills I have to send to PJ. :D

Originally posted by Flourish
tg, with all respect to your mom, I hope she's wrong about Mel Gibson and Elijah Wood working together again. Gibson has been involved for months in a biblical epic that he is both backing and starring in, and in which not one word of English will be spoken. :confused:
Yes, I'm quite sure she's wrong; as some people know here, she's a dear for trying to watch for things I'm interested in (she sent me the Parade article on Elijah and paid extra postage to send it flat so he wouldn't have a crease through his face in the cover shot :) ), and she does wonderfully well for being 86 (still lives alone, drives, does volunteer work), but the memory for details isn't as good as it used to be.

I've been through everything on IMDb and seen nothing on anyone from the LotR movies, although she was sure she'd heard it in an interview (the same interview she was sure had said the movie was being released this week, when it's not scheduled to be released until 2004--it's now in post-production). BTW, Mel produced, directed, and helped write the screenplay, but he doesn't seem to have acted in it; he definitely didn't star. I told my mom I'd see what I could find out when I got back to computer connection this week, so will have to call her and explain why she can't find it showing anywhere. (Terribly frustrating to know you could find info in a couple of clicks, but there's no computer to do the clicking on!)

And, yes, to keep it historically authentic, the dialogue is supposed to be in Aramaic, Hebrew, and Latin. What we'd be faced with, I suppose, if Tolkien hadn't translated the Westron in the Red Book into English :p .

---And to end this vaguely on topic, I'm hoping her Mel Gibson curiosity will get her to watch Forever Young ;) .

Edit: Gladys--thanks for the dates on the DVDs. :)

Sheryl; - congratulations, dear! :) (Or so I read your post....) Hope you're doing OK.


ainon, those are great wallpapers..... had a look at the other ones and the Aragorn one was pretty nifty too. ;) Buuut - that Frodo one; very determined Frodo (note the jaw! :D )with Sting at the ready, and a backdrop of the combined sights and places of interest in Mordor...... Our hero really *looks* every part the hero (and no whimp) in that wallpaper! :cool:


After having had a look at the contents of the Theatrical release DVD's contents, I'm already trying to build willpower *not* to buy it. Apart from the nice menus and the film itself (which will be significantly improved through the additional 43 minutes of the SE DVD, I hope) the main thing of interest is the 10 minute RotK preview. But thinking back on last year's 10 minute TTT preview, it didn't contain many spoilers, really. And the juicy bits will be discussed on the net around August 15, I suppose. So I think I won't buy it. However, I may be so desperate by August month end that I buy it anyway...... wouldn't *entirely* rule that out. :rolleyes:

More about CoF
*
*
I'm really enjoying this discussion about the strange motivation of the characters in CoF, surreal though their actions and attitudes seem. .....how did he get on the hoodlum’s books as an assassin for hire? In addition to what's been said about that already, who knows what the Senator had been up to and why he was so desperate; - there probably really was a contract on him and the hoodlum knew about it. If so he'd be more than willing to believe Mikey's embellished on-the-scene tale. And btw, the hoodlum that Steve Zahn (sp?) went to to hire his contract killer didn't exactly look like he was on the short list for a Nobel prize in science, did he? :D

More about AW
*
* I may soon be the only one here who haven't *seen* AW, but about the ending: I had read that as Francis going out on purpose pretending to be Sean (....but they don't look like each other, do they? Isn't Burns taller? ) to lure the killers' attention away long enough so that Sean and his little family could escape; - and that Francis even was willing to sacrifice his life for that to happen. But he couldn't have imagined that they'd continue *believing* that they'd actually killed Sean? The news would slip out soon enough, and Francis himself would suddenly be gone..... Perhaps what he could hope for was that the killers would not search further for Sean and be content with having gotten "an eye for an eye".


*
*
End AW stuff


Erendis, very :cool: w/ the sig!

Thanks Shilo....for the welcome.

TG, I think you're spot on, with the end of the movie...! I do believe that Francis knew that outcomes had not been setteled. Well, when he put the coat and hat on... I knew what would happen!

Hi Sheryl!! And congratulations! Look after yourself now...:)

spoilers for CoF follow






Thanks for the feedback Hobmom, Maeglian tg and Estella rose (*wave to estella*). I'm not certain Mikey is just a delusional teen; though that's how I read it first time I watched the film.
He seems very self focussed (the bathroom scene is a good example of his absorption in his own affairs and complete disinterest in anyone elses) and not only does he completely fail to react to the old guys death but when in the thief's apartment is completely uninterested in what appears to be a dead body (Coco): just a quick poke with the foot to check its not alive and off he goes.
He also handles the shootout in the hospital very slickly for a 17 year old wannabe.
the hoodlum that Steve Zahn (sp?) went to to hire his contract killer didn't exactly look like he was on the short list for a Nobel prize in science, did he?
True :p. But is literacy vital to the success of a hoodlum? If NZ prison stats are standard then this (illiteracy) was just a movie exaggeration of a very common aspect of real criminal life.

I'm just wondering if Mikey was supposed to be a sociopath: amoral and completely lacking in empathy and often highly intelligent. Not necessarily evil but so self focused and so indifferent to the fates of others that they present a social threat.....????

If so then EW with his disarming grin and angelic face was a very clever choice. His "goofiness" that tg caught in the caps of the bathroom scene could be the result of failing to understand Kresk's situation ; much as autistic people who are low on the scale of autism have difficulty functioning socially because they can't read or understand the emotional states of others.

Of course this doesn't fit with the "room service" version of the senator's suicide. Here Mikey seems to try to stop the man from jumping. But then, with Mikey's earlier lies on this subject perhaps this is an exaggeration also? Maybe in truth he calmly stood by while the man jumped and later decided to depict himself as The Innocent Bystander Who Tried To Help (effectively makingh him the victim and rationalising his inaction????) Ok so I'm stretching here...:p


Just had a thought: if he is a sociopath then why and how did his parents die....?????? :eek::p

Sheryl - CONGRATULATIONS!! :k :k :k


Originally posted by Maeglian
After having had a look at the contents of the Theatrical release DVD's contents, I'm already trying to build willpower *not* to buy it.

Well, have you seen the Quicktime clips at the lightsoutentertainment site? Took me half an hour to download those, but oh ... my ... I was in quite a glorious stupor afterward.

I was thinking of posting the Aragorn wallpaper, but I couldn't figure out a way to make it on-topic. :D The Frodo wallpaper actually features FotR Frodo (see his cloak) but anyway, his position on the left side of the screen means the Windows programme icons will be all over him. :p There's a TTT Frodo screensaver available for download too, from warofthering.net, if anyone's interested.



AW spoilers

Oh, Terry, I'm sorry - I misunderstood what you meant. I thought you were asking if the position of the fallen body was deliberate. Sorry. :o

But the plot ... I don't believe he was sacrificing himself for his brother. Why should he? Besides, he's smugly secure (if that fixed expression on his face can be described as 'smug') in the belief that he's wiped out all his (and his brother's) enemies; he doesn't know that there's still another guy out there who wants him (Frannie) dead.

The ending's right out of any run of the mill mob movie, isn't it? 'You can never escape your past'. :rolleyes: :p


end spoilers



tg - good to know your mom's doing well. :)

I don't know, Ainon. Unless I don't remember correctly...there were other coats on the pegs in his apartment. He chose the peacoat and hat. He KNEW that Sean would be recognized by them. I do think he chose to disguise himself. The only other option would be to think that Frannie was an idiot! And I don't think that..... Maybe he realized that the "hit" was in place and that the only way it would be finalized was if someone died that "fit the description"? Well, maybe I'm just trying to justify the ending......

estella ... I meant to reply to you earlier but didn't have time. You could try Village Photos (http://photos.onebigvillage.com/index.asp) for free image hosting. I use that, and it's okay for sharing the occasional pic, and it's free. ;) It has bandwidth limits though. Good luck with whatever image hosting site you settle on. I sure am eager to see what pics you have. :)

In TTT I was torn apart by the way Frodo cries out ‘Gandalf’, I think it’s twice before he cries ‘nooooo’. That is the last sound that Gandalf hears as he begins to fall with the Balrog.

:( And a brilliant way to start the second movie.



spoiler replies to CoF and AW



Originally posted by Prim
Just had a thought: if he is a sociopath then why and how did his parents die....?????? :eek::p

Right. And you worried about me?! :D


Terry ... I guess I just thought Frannie was being stoically stubborn when he put the coat & hat on - so he could walk around the neighbourhood and show everyone that see, here he is walking - all those folks who thought it'd been Sean the other night had been sadly mistaken. Thank goodness that that sniper was waiting there to stop Frannie from doing all that walking all over again ...

Wasn't that sniper was gunning for Frannie anyway? I could rewatch and confirm, I suppose, but ... :p

AW spoilers








Originally posted by ainon
Terry ... I guess I just thought Frannie was being stoically stubborn when he put the coat & hat on - so he could walk around the neighbourhood and show everyone that see, here he is walking - all those folks who thought it'd been Sean the other night had been sadly mistaken.
Wasn't that sniper was gunning for Frannie anyway? I could rewatch and confirm, I suppose, but ... :p
I'm pretty sure he was a cousin of one of the three guys Sean killed, so was out for Sean. (And I have to say that finishing things up by bringing back someone whom the audience has supposedly "forgotten about" from early in the movie is another thing that, IMHO, makes this screenplay seem like the work of a beginner. It's closer to a deux et machina ending than one built on the plot.)

ainon--your idea about Francis wanting people to think it had been him they'd seen in the neighborhood rather than Sean makes sense. I just have one problem with it---it makes sense :rolleyes: ... something this movie is not big on. OTOH, it's very, very big on symbolism, and IMVHO for the symbolism of the final scene to "make sense," Francis has to knowingly be allowing himself to be killed "for his brother's sins" or, at least, in his brother's stead, hence the crucifixion position of the body at the end. It's certainly possible that Ed doesn't mean to stretch the symbolism quite that far, and that Francis only has to die in his brother's place, without it necessarily being purposeful--maybe I'm just cynical in looking for Ed to stretch symbolism as far as possible anywhere in this movie, since he seems to do it so much... :rolleyes:

IMVVHO it's hard to have logical discussions about plot developments in AW, because there's just so much that happens in it that isn't logical--unless everyone in it, except Grace and little Sean, are complete idiots. So, I've gotten to the point of just looking at what Ed's trying to "say" and giving up on trying to figure out why someone did something (since I don't think Ed worried too much about the latter).

Thank goodness that that sniper was waiting there to stop Frannie from doing all that walking all over again ...
:D Maybe he'd seen early cuts of this movie :p !





End of AW spoilers


and beginning of CofF spoilers







I've been noticing that while the lack of logic in AW bugs the heck out of me, the same lack in CofF doesn't bother me at all! Maybe because CofF doesn't make any pretense to logic??

Maybe even more because we're told pretty upfront that everything we see in CofF is subjective--from one or another character's POV--rather than what objectively, really happened?

As opposed to the characters in AW, I feel as if we're not really supposed to be able to make concrete sense out of many of the characters in CofF. (I mean, what's with that "boy scout" for crying out loud? And does Kresk really strike you as someone who'd calmly go out and pay to have someone killed, when through the rest of the movie he seems like a basically nice guy?)

So it doesn't particularly bother me if we don't know what's going on objectively with Mikey, since we don't really know that about any of the other characters, either (with the possible exception of Avnet--but he's the exception to a lot of things in this movie, IMHO).

My "theory" is still that the Senator's death affected Mikey so strongly that he went over the edge--but for that to happen, he had to be pretty close to it already. At the time of the movie, he doesn't seem to be able to kill anyone--at least, he always finds some reason not to--but he may be heading in that direction if he doesn't get in touch with reality. Self-centered, definitely--even seeing the Senator's death from the perspective of something that happened to himself, not the Senator.

Lost and lonely, as most of this movie's characters are in one way or another.





End of CofF spoilers

AW spoiler


I didn't try to remember this ... but suddenly the memory came flooding back. :rolleyes: That sniper was avenging his brother's death. He was gunning for Sean after he heard the rumours about Sean's 'resurrection. I should check to be sure, but I think the sniper's brother was the feller sent to kill Sean in the first place, whom Frannie had murdered instead. I don't recall if Frannie ever knew about this 'extra' baddie, but I did know he'd show up before the end, and I was much pleased that it was so he could do the good deed of sparing us Ed Burns' walking. :D

Originally posted by tgshaw
ainon--your idea about Francis wanting people to think it had been him they'd seen in the neighborhood rather than Sean makes sense. I just have one problem with it---it makes sense :rolleyes: ... something this movie is not big on. OTOH, it's very, very big on symbolism, and IMVHO for the symbolism of the final scene to "make sense," Francis has to knowingly be allowing himself to be killed "for his brother's sins" or, at least, in his brother's stead, hence the crucifixion position of the body at the end. It's certainly possible that Ed doesn't mean to stretch the symbolism quite that far, and that Francis only has to die in his brother's place, without it necessarily being purposeful--maybe I'm just cynical in looking for Ed to stretch symbolism as far as possible anywhere in this movie, since he seems to do it so much... :rolleyes:


Actually you have your answer right there, tg. IRONY. What irony that after all Frannie has done to make sure that everyone shall live in peace and harmony (he even made sure he killed off all the proper bad guys, y'know), he should have to die in his brother's place!

Deep, y'know. :D


end spoiler

ainon to Prim:
Right. And you worried about me?! :D Well....... based on the following quote, I'd say it's a tie between the two of you. :p Thank goodness that that sniper was waiting there to stop Frannie from doing all that walking all over again ...


tg, and others with in-depth Ash Wednesday knowledge: The many stupid things that everybody does in the film keep being mentioned. Could you give one or two examples of the absolutely most stupid things? I'm getting curious...... and I am unlikely to get hold of AW any time soon.
So I can't really chime in on the "tragic irony" or "symbolic intended sacrifice and redemption" interpretations of the ending of the film either. Interesting discussion, though.


More about CoF
*
*
I still agree that Mikey is a disturbed and disillusioned kid going over the edge. Some of his reactions are very strange, but so are the reactions of everyone else. That's what makes the film so funny (to me), the utterly unexpected or unusual reactions to all the unusual (or frightening, or annoying, or unbelievable.....) goings-on.

Buuuuut, it's *very* interesting to follow Prim's line of reasoning.

If Mikey really is a fledgeling all-out sociopath, why would he ask for friendship and proclaim loneliness or sadness at every other opportunity? Perhaps to confuse his opponent, bring them off balance, or even purposefully disarm them into thinking he is no danger after all? And what if it actually is the first version of the Senator's death that is the real deal? The other ones then would be his reconstructed refinements of the event The first: Full of violent embellishments to use in his hit-man promotion and intimidation routine, and the next, (the bell-boy version) being his justification of the murder by reconstructing it as a tragedy beyond his control. The reason why he takes time to reconstruct one murder just as he's about to commit another? Hmmmmm ...... One justification at a time?
Don't sociopaths often reconstruct events in their own mind in order to fit their image of themselves as always being right, and in order to justify their wrongdoings as proper? The bellboy story *could* fit with that. As could the sad story of the parents' demise...... (Shudders) Now you've done it, Prim! :D Instead of me feeling sorry for poor little lonely, cop-show-influenced and majorly confused Mikey, perhaps I am all scared of the deliberately confusing and utterly remorseless young hitman with the angelic face! :eek: :rolleyes:


*
*
End CoF stuff once more

From ainon
The Frodo wallpaper actually features FotR Frodo (see his cloak) You don't think I missed that? :D I love that green cloak. As for describing the rest of the outfit, only Elda can do that justice, I believe. :) And he doesn't look pale, desperate, mudcovered and generally dragged-backwards-through-a-hedge, either, all of which are likely RotK look requirements....... :(
Nevertheless, the composition of that determined, collected and brave Frodo with the backdrop of Mordor does portray Frodo in a certain way that I'm certain will please many fans.

Now off to sniff out those Lightsoutentertainment clips. :)

Originally posted by ainon
Deep, y'know. :D
Well, something's gettin' pretty deep there, y'know? :p :D :D


AW spoilers




For Maeg and others who want examples of really stupid things:

A bit of prelude stupidity from the flashback scene that opens the movie: Three guys sitting in a bar making plans to kill the guy who owns the bar, with his brother standing a few feet away. (If anyone's heard of the "Darwin awards" those guys definitely deserve one: That is, do the human race a favor by getting yourself killed off to avoid passing on your defective genes :rolleyes: .)

Then, sending Sean off three years before the main story with seemingly no way for him to contact anyone and no plans for what he should do later on--did they just expect him to stay away forever (of course, given the fact that Francis was... "friendly" with his brother's wife, maybe he did expect that)? Alternate, more sensible plan: send Sean off with some way for him to make contact and let priest and/or brother know where he is. Then after enough time had passed to ease suspicions, Grace could go to him--instead of him having to risk everyone's lives by coming back for her.

Then--stupidly, but necessary for the symbolism (of course :rolleyes: )--Sean comes back exactly three years after he disappeared (Ash Wednesday both times, y'know). And, really, really, really stupidly, Sean goes wandering around the neighborhood thinking no one will recognize him!!

Later, when Francis is trying to find a place to hide Sean for awhile, he has the brilliant :rolleyes: idea of taking him to his old girlfriend's place which, of course, is the first place the bad guys look. When the girlfriend's not home, the brothers go across the street to a bar and have a drink--where they're pretty easily found and we get to have a chase scene.

----Ed Burns seems to have this thing about New York City; it's as if the characters are trapped there. But even if Francis couldn't leave the city because... :confused: , he could certainly have taken Sean somewhere less likely to be found. It's a big place, y'know...






End AW spoilers

AW spoilers









Originally posted by tgshawThank goodness that that sniper was waiting there to stop Frannie from doing all that walking all over again ...

:D Maybe he'd seen early cuts of this movie :p !

Of course! That's it! The sniper must have been the movie's editor, and seen the original ending, with Frannie walking and walking and walking and slowly driving the audience mad. It was a community service to change the ending.;) :D





End of AW spoilers

From Bridget
The sniper must have been the movie's editor, and seen the original ending, with Frannie walking and walking and walking and slowly driving the audience mad. It was a community service to change the ending.From tg
.....those guys definitely deserve one: That is, do the human race a favor by getting yourself killed off to avoid passing on your defective genes.From ainon
Thank goodness that that sniper was waiting there to stop Frannie from doing all that walking all over again ... .
:eek: I'm wondering what kind of effective and subliminal messages and suggestions that film contains, in order to make peaceful, kind, reflected, intelligent people like all the above turn so harsh and even...... vicious....and violent? :eek: :D :rolleyes:

Does anyone else who's seen the film want to join in the (admittedly requested :o ) AW bashing? :D
Yet..... since Sean (and Grace) have left the builing (as it were) at the end of the film there, would not the audience just have joined Francis in the walking (out of the cinema) even if he lived and walked to see another day? :D

Not only that; ainon's quote re. the means to stop Francis walking is fast becoming the most quoted Faculty statement ever! :D Bet you didn't expect that!


Seriously though, thank you very much for those examples of sillyness and plot weaknesses, tg!

And hi, Bridget! :)

ainon to Prim:
Right. And you worried about me?!

Well....... based on the following quote, I'd say it's a tie between the two of you.

:eek: :eek: :mad:
*...Prim clips both Ainon and Maeglian over the ear *(the kiwi version of the strange american phrase "whacking someone upside the head...or ear...or whatever.)

If Mikey really is a fledgeling all-out sociopath, why would he ask for friendship and proclaim loneliness or sadness at every other opportunity

Hmmm. Good point. Though I think sociopaths may indeed want friends they just have trouble making them; for obvious reasons.:p
And what if it actually is the first version of the Senator's death that is the real deal? The other ones then would be his reconstructed refinements of the event ....(snip).....just as he's about to commit another? Hmmmmm ...... One justification at a time?
Don't sociopaths often reconstruct events in their own mind in order to fit their image of themselves as always being right, and in order to justify their wrongdoings as proper? The bellboy story *could* fit with that. As could the sad story of the parents' demise......

O.o.h.h.h.h...g.i.i.r.r.l.l.....now you're just messing with my head!:rolleyes:

I admit for the record here that the delusional teen is a better fit thematically and plotwise; especially considering the title of the film. If Mikey was a sociopath then he'd be with Avenet the only intelligent character.(As a foil for the others perhaps..???? Wouldn't it be an irony if the only two in the movie that had any intelligence at all were the two criminals and perhaps the about to be corrupted lady cop).

Oh well. Delusional teen fits the "fool" category better. Boring though. Still prefer the sociopath theory.... ;) :D

edit: its a pity there was no commentaries on the CoF dvd, it would have been very interesting. And I'm finding director commentaries strangely addictive...

Thanks for all the good wishes, ladies. (Mel, you're STILL here? :D)

Originally posted by erendis
I've lost track of the ob/gyn bills I have to send to PJ. :D

I blame Jean Antonello. We tried for five years before getting pregnant with my eldest - hubby finally got me Antonello's book and told me I should follow it (she says eat to appetite, to the point of consciously checking periodically, "Am I hungry?"). I tend to lose the diet during the pregnancy (too much work, especially since I deal with a lot of nausea), but I've never gotten pregnant without getting back on it. And generally I get pregnant within a few months of getting serious with the diet, which is what happened this time.

Really bad timing, though - haven't done the math yet to pin the due date, but it's definitely going to have an impact on my ROTK viewing. What were we thinking? :rolleyes: :p

I have absolutely nothing intelligent to say about the topic at hand, except that you guys are making me LOL with all these thoughts of murder. I have to admit I find Maeglian and Prim's theory about the first version of the Senator's death being reality strangely compelling. Oh, and I'll add a superstition to the CoF discussion - I've been reading a book of collected superstitions, and supposedly a man with a dimple in his chin will never commit murder. So obviously EW's character is a confused innocent. Or something. ;)

Prim,
I've gotten into director's commentary lately as well - I find the commentary on Spy Kids II more interesting than the movie, but unfortunately the kids don't share this preference.

Here's another old rhyme I thought applied to our boy:

A dimple in your cheek,
Many hearts you will seek;
A dimple in your chin
Many hearts you will win.

Then again, another old saying is, "Dimple on the chin, the devil within." :eek:

Sheryl

Originally posted by shilohmm
Really bad timing, though - haven't done the math yet to pin the due date, but it's definitely going to have an impact on my ROTK viewing. What were we thinking? :rolleyes: :p
Priorities, priorities... :rolleyes: :D

I have absolutely nothing intelligent to say about the topic at hand, except that you guys are making me LOL with all these thoughts of murder.
For anyone who isn't familiar with them, let me present a link to the Darwin Awards (http://www.darwinawards.com/index.html), as mentioned above--with a caveat that some of the stories are rather gory (no more so than newspaper accounts of the events--which many of the stories are--but these people did some mighty stupid things). IMVHO, they fit in quite well with discussion of both CofF (because they're definitely for people with a dark sense of humor--laughing at murder :eek: :p ?) and AW (because that movie gives such good, if fictional, examples :p ).

----------------

On buying the theatrical version DVD-- For FotR, I had planned to wait until the SE to buy the DVD. But then Amazon had one of their two-fer deals where you could buy the theatrical version DVD and one of the movie-related "art" books (which I'd planned to buy anyway) for about the same amount that I would have spent for just the book locally, so I decided to go for it. I'm glad I did, because of the fact that the "extended" version doesn't just add things but also takes some out. Without the first DVD, I wouldn't have Haldir's "Come. She is waiting," with that fabulous flash of his eyes toward Frodo. I also wouldn't have the Council of Elrond scene that IMHO makes more sense than the SE version. Or that wonderful segue from "...Hobbits will rule the fortunes of all," to "The Shire: 60 Years Later," which, if nothing else, brings back such warm memories of seeing the movie for the first time. I'm assuming there will be some things lost from the theatrical version on the TTT SE, too, so I'm planning to buy them both.

--------

Hi, Bridget--I'm happily surprised to see Eefro make it into your sig :) . And, yes, from your AW review, I know how much you love Ed Burns's walking tour of New York :p .

:D :D :D

Congratulations Sheryl!

:D :D :D

CofF spoilers





Re Chain of Fools – I think you do need add a pinch of salt to every version of events we see on the screen, whether or not they’re actually being told by Mikey. For instance, we see the scene when Mikey goes into Avnet’s apartment twice: in one version he gives the body on the floor a real kick, the next time we see it it’s more a gentle nudge with the foot. Who’s to say where the ‘truth’ lies??!! It seems to be a film about everybody’s delusions – that fine line between fact and imagination, where logic isn’t to be found!

While Mikey does fit the profile of a sociopath, that’s probably adding a layer of darkness that the film-makers didn’t intend. I mean, it’s a comedy - isn’t it???:(

However, I like this line of thought – it makes the characters much more complex and interesting, and Mikey’s youth and angelic looks add an extra layer of chills.




end spoilers


I don’t know whether to feel relieved or sorry that I’m unlikely to be seeing Ash Wednesday in the foreseeable future!


Thank you ainon for the thumbs-up re Village Photos :) :)

from estella rose It seems to be a film about everybody’s delusions – that fine line between fact and imagination, where logic isn’t to be found!
I totally agree.

While Mikey does fit the profile of a sociopath, that’s probably adding a layer of darkness that the film-makers didn’t intend. I mean, it’s a comedy - isn’t it???

Yes indeed. Please don't be sad.:( Just ignore me estella. I don't mean at all to reduce your enjoyment of the movie. It is indeed a comedy, and I just love EW's role in it, but I also love to wander down my own personal thought tracks and look for the alternative universe.:rolleyes: And here in the Faculty I have such a tolerant audience!!!:k

I think your first comment re delusions sums the movie up perfectly. As do tg's, Maeglian's and Hobmom's. That's why I sort of admitted the error of my ways. :p Mea culpa. Sigh.

I just have too much time on my hands but next week its nose back to the grind stone. Bummer. But I should be less annoying (if a bit scarce; I apologise in advance to the Fac and assure everyone I read this thread daily even when I don't comment).

edit: just have to totally agree with this comment from tg too:
Without the first DVD, I wouldn't have Haldir's "Come. She is waiting," with that fabulous flash of his eyes toward Frodo.

Oh Prim, you are enhancing my enjoyment of the film, not reducing it!!! I just picked the wrong smiley. :o :o

I love to wander along the tangents too :)

Hi back, Maeglian.:D

tgshaw - yeah, I don't think I ever told you how much I loved your LOTR/Pooh parody.:o I thought it was awesome.:)

Sheryl, you paid money for "Spy Kids 2"??:eek: :o Hmm, well, I might forgive you & be on speaking terms with you again by the time the baby gets here.;) :D Congratulations again!:k

I bought my grandpa one of those "Darwin Awards" books once - he loved it. Must be genetic.;) (Don't worry, Maeg, the horror that is "Ash Wednesday" hasn't affected my moral compass too much.;) :D )

Anyhoo, will stop being terribly off topic & run away from the CoF spoilers now.

((((Faculty))))

Hello all,

here are news from Try 17. Appenrently they have renamed it
to "All I Want" and it will be on Starz in August. Here is the link. Please read.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hollywoodreporter/television/brief_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1871398

to estella rose:

Oh. Phew!

I'll just take my head out of the microwave now then shall I...??
:D ;)

originally quoted by ainon:
Btw, Blossom - may I just say how much I love you when you go off-topic on Frodo?
_________________________________________________
And may I say how much I love you, ainon, when you seek out and share goodies like those mouth-watering TT DVD pics with us! :k :) And:k again for the link to the quicktime clips. Beautiful.

Only four months to go until 26th August!!!:( I also plan to buy both the theatrical and extended DVD's, Tg. I couldn't POSSIBLY wait until November to see extra-angsty TT Fro again!

Great AW and CofF discussions. Of course I haven't the slightest idea what you're all talking about - :confused: so what's new? - as I haven't seen either film, but fascinated all the same.

Sheryl - congratulations to you and your hubby!!!:) :) :) What? Interfere with ROTK? :eek:

estella - good luck with Village Photos. I look forward to seeing your pics here VERY soon!

Starlight - just noticed your post. Interesting news about the change of title for 'Try Seventeen.' I wonder if this 'Starz' channel will make an appearance in the UK? We can but hope! Thanks for that.

Must run. Lots to do. Bye.

Oh dear colleagues, such fascinating discussions of Chain of Fools and Ash Wednesday. May I chime in?

Re: Mikey as a possible sociopath: could one possible indication of his state of mind be his fixation on "Cats?" :D

As for Ash Wednesday, you all have me rolling on the floor with your talk of the final assassin as the film's editor. :p

I was planning to tackle Sheryl, in congratulations you know, but I won't in deference to her "delicate" condition. Take care of yourself, girl. ;)

Oh thank you, Starlight, for that link to the Starz announcement. If this is true, it confirms a rumor that goes back to last summer about the film going straight to video as part of some sort of package deal with the filmmakers. But, "All I want"? D'oh. Stupid title. Try Seventeen was much more interesting. And you know Mandy Moore made a video of a tune called "Seventeen" which has only been aired in the Philippines, as far as I can tell. Despite the marketing stupidities that are surrounding this film, let us hope that it actually gets released this time!

The distribution fate of Try Seventeen is as inexplicable as the so-called "plot" of AW ;). A Russian friend has just informed me that it's at the cinemas in Moscow :confused: right now. The Russian title may be translated back into English as "Seventeen year olds" which doesn't really make much sense.

TV Watch: Wood on 'Glick'
4/23/03, 12:03 pm EST - Xoanon

Joan writes: I saw on Yahoo news that Elijah Wood (Frodo) will be appearing this season on Martin Shorts "Primetime Glick" on Comedy Central. No date was given for his appearance, but the season starts on April 30.

WHAT?!!??!:( 'Try Seventeen' is going direct to video under a different title? With THAT CAST it's going straight to video???!!!

For THIS I came back to civilization, or what remains of it?

*sigh* The world makes no sense. No sense at all.

I think I will lapse back into the fog of jet lag for a while longer.

p.s. {{{Sheryl}}} Congrats!!!

{{{Faculty}}}

Try Seventeen- Well at least I have that channel and will immediately tape it. And at least we get to actually see it.

BUT..STUPID STUPID DISTRIBUTORS!!!!!!
Lij is BIG BOX OFFICE!!!!

When will these morons figure this out? I noticed though that the other movies mentioned in that announcement included one with Peter O'Toole who last time I looked was still a pretty big star.

So many good films are going either straight to video or cable. Why? Why can't good stuff actually go into a theater once in awhile?

One good thing though is that awards like the Golden Globes recognize this and actually give awards to some of these films.
And will this make Lij elligible for an Emmy Award, too?

Sigh.. I'd like to see his talent recognized for something!

Welcome back, Goldie!! :) We've been looking for you. http://fool.exler.ru/sm/au.gif

Well, actually that's just an excuse to use that smiley. I'm in love with that little guy. And on the subject of smilies, another favorite of mine:

http://fool.exler.ru/sm/umn.gif <------ I call this little guy the "tgshaw." :p

LOL, Erendis!

Welcome back, Goldie! :)

Hi Starlight, and ich danke dir for the Try 17 info.
Right to video, or to a TV channel, huh? That's a pity! (OT: Another of the films mentioned has Kiefer Sutherland starring as Paul Gauguin. :confused: I just can't imagine that!)

However,

according to various Danish film sites, Try 17 will premiere in Danish cinemas on May 2. :cool:

Here's a link to one of them (You see the film title and the premiere date a little way down the list of coming films): http://www.byenkalder.dk/default.asp?sct=1&show=future

The distributor, Scanbox, also distributes films in the other Scandinavian countries, but there are no news on the distributor's home page nor on various Swedish / Norwegian film news sites concerning if or when Try 17 may premiere in those countries. Given EJW's popularity I'd expect they'd premiere it in all countries if it is successful in Denmark.

Nevertheless, if it *does* indeed premiere in Denmark on May 2 as seems to be the case, there will be reviews in the Danish net papers. I'll keep a track of that and keep you posted.

Originally posted by tgshaw
Without the first DVD, I wouldn't have Haldir's "Come. She is waiting," with that fabulous flash of his eyes toward Frodo. I also wouldn't have the Council of Elrond scene that IMHO makes more sense than the SE version.

Yes, totally. I like seeing more of Haldir in the Extended DVD, but I sorely missed that bit, and the additions to the CoE scene didn't work at all for me.

Originally posted by Bridget Chubbs

Sheryl, you paid money for "Spy Kids 2"??

Certainly not. Hubby paid for "Spy Kids 2". I was initially under the impression he'd gotten it from the library, then vowed and declared I was getting rid of it - but haven't yet. In retrospect he did agree that we had far better uses for those fifteen bucks. :rolleyes:

Thanks for the info, Starlight. I wonder if anyone I know gets that channel.

Originally posted by Brunhild

The Russian title may be translated back into English as "Seventeen year olds" which doesn't really make much sense.

Nice to know nearly everyone involved in this release is an idiot... :p

erendis,
Speaking of wasting grey matter, my infink is watching a Wiggles video, and it's hit "Cave Land." My son played that six times in a row yesterday. I can hear my gray matter shrieking as it dies. And the Animated Movie Which Shall Not Be Named is presumably worse. :eek:

One assumes the only other EW movie that presents a danger to your brain is AW - but in that case the brain cells probably just fall into a stupor from all the walking. Unless you're watching it with Bridget, in which case the shrieks of pain and outrage will probably keep them alert. :D

Sheryl

erendis--I've traced the origins of your impeccable smilies and found the homepage of their creator, Alex Exler. He also writes (in Russian) what he calls "subjective notes on video films." In particular, he has reviewed both FOTR and TTT. My knowledge of Russian leaves much to be desired but I'd say that his description of EJW's Frodo is something like "infantile adolescent with the eyes of an abused rabbit." The following smiley says it all:
http://fool.exler.ru/sm/nud.gif

Sounds like a local reviewer who described EW as looking like a "rabbit trapped in headlights".

:mad:

Welcome back, Goldie!

Very cute (an appropriate!) smileys, guys. :D

Originally posted by shilohmm
Really bad timing, though - haven't done the math yet to pin the due date, but it's definitely going to have an impact on my ROTK viewing. What were we thinking? :rolleyes: :p

LOL! I wanted to ask the other day, but couldn't think of a polite way to do it. ;)





mild allusions to CofF and AW



Originally posted by Prim
I just have too much time on my hands but next week its nose back to the grind stone. Bummer. But I should be less annoying (if a bit scarce; I apologise in advance to the Fac and assure everyone I read this thread daily even when I don't comment).

Aww, Prim. And here I was thinking that with our combined depravity, you and I could work together to rewrite the script for 'Ash Wednesday' and have Frannie fall before his walk even begins. And THEN, we shall have Sean running through the rest of the movie, fulfilling his true sociopathic potential ('coz that's a sociopath, if there ever was one: a clean scrubbed 18-year-old who hears that his brother's in trouble and first thing he thinks of doing is blowing the heads off of three men) and exact bloody revenge upon all who dared cut short his brother's walk!


What are the rest of you looking at me like that for? Prim and I would be doing you all a favour, I tell you! We would become your saviours!!!

:p :D



Faculty slowly backs away from ainon


Pah. You're all no fun. :o



end spoilers




Anyway, take care of yourself, Prim. *hugs*


Hey there, Bridget. Speaking of quotes ;) ...

"I have to remind myself that some birds aren't meant to be caged. Their feathers are just too bright. And when they fly away, the part of you that knows it was a sin to lock them up does rejoice. Still, the place you live in is that much more drab and empty that they're gone. I guess I just miss my friend." :)

ainon: lol!! :D

Erendis, what a lovely name for a lovely smiley! :)

Ohh, Maeg, you may actually get to see Try Seventeen on the BIG screen? (insert jealous smiley here) I'm checking on flights to Denmark! I would be extremely grateful for any reviews or -- gasp -- a trailer for that film!!

:k to Goldie! Welcome back!

And could somebody, please, tape the Glick thing? Isn't that an HBO show?

Glick is on Comedy Central.

I want to go to a country with the sense to show an Elwood film on a big screen!

from Ainon who appears to be losing the plot in more ways than one...with our combined depravity...
:eek: As a Veritable Paragon of Virtue I will not grace that comment with a reply.

, you and I could work together to rewrite the script for 'Ash Wednesday'

How about a Steven King version ??? And naturally it needs a plot with greater internal consistency than Ash Wednesday....:rolleyes:

Right: EW could be a sociopathic alien, in disguise of course, determined to avert his brother's horrible destiny: to be pulled down a shower drain (or a New York steam vent if we want to retain the Noo Yoick mood) by a demonic clown!!!! Toss in a few reincarnated pets (very the worse for wear), a cemetery or two, blood inexplicably oozing out of walls in otherwise quite quaint houses and we've got a hit!
Right. Where's Maeglian. She gets to do the dialogue.

...and have Frannie fall before his walk even begins

Huh? :confused: Ainon, I don't think you're taking this project seriously.

edit: ooh ooh ooh! A Matrix version! No. Seriously! That shot in CoF where Mikey runs up the apartment stairs looks very Matrix-y. Dark clothes, lithe good looks, guns, sidling up gloomy corridors. Its so do-able. Of course we might well put Mr Reeves out of a job. Hmmm. Rethink needed....

Originally posted by Peachy
Sounds like a local reviewer who described EW as looking like a "rabbit trapped in headlights".

:mad:
Well, what can you expect from someone who can't even get his cliche's right :rolleyes: ? It's "deer in the headlights"--rabbits are too close to the ground.

Admittedly, Elijah does have some "deer in the headlights" moments, but I don't understand the people who just see those few moments and nothing else :confused: . Here's the best example I've found--It's from "This is a foe beyond any of you! Run!" in Moria:

http://www.imagemagician.com/images/tgshaw/Fellowship/capcrop6520-85.jpg

Actually, I just noticed that shot about a week ago, and it prompted an addition to the Glossary on my website (not posted yet, still working on May additions).

----------------

Thanks, Starlight and erendis for the Glick and Try Seventeen news (Try Seventeen's a much better title, I agree--maybe they were afraid people "wouldn't get it" :rolleyes: ).

But... I'm afraid things are getting to the point where I might have to make the ultimate sacrifice for my EJW fandom... Yes, much as I cringe to say it, I may have to get cable TV :eek: And... *sob* premium channels (Starz is premium, here)! Understand that this is akin to a hardcore feminist buying a push-up bra--I've stayed away from cable, I guess you could say "in protest" against how much TV Americans watch. I always say I can find better ways to use the money (which is true), but a big part of my staying cable-less has been to let people know it can be done (around here, admitting you don't have cable TV is almost as shocking as saying you don't have indoor plumbing and have an outhouse in your backyard). ...Would it be hypocritical to sneak down to the TV in the student lounge when Elijah's in a program on cable :confused: ??

(erendis ;) -- Is that paragraph an example of how I "earned" that particular smilie :p ?)


--------------------

from Sheryl
One assumes the only other EW movie that presents a danger to your brain is AW - but in that case the brain cells probably just fall into a stupor from all the walking...
...or exhaust themselves trying to figure out the logic of the story--before they realize, "Oh! There isn't any!" and can relax :p .

ainon and Prim--There's no need to have real depravity in order to write fictional depravity... The really depraved people seem to be the ones whose neighbors say, "But she was so nice!"

Take care, Prim, and don't stay away too long.

what remains of CofF & AW after Prim and I are done with 'em


Originally posted by Prim
As a Veritable Paragon of Virtue I will not grace that comment with a reply.

Oh, that's all right. You don't need to. :D

But ... but ... but we want to do away with Frannie! We don't want to avert said horrible destiny! We don't want Frannie to do no walking, no sirree. The streets of New York have been walked before - by a meticulous British gentleman private detective with a silencer and a gun in a late '80s show called The Equiliser. Which had a pretty nifty opening theme. And lots of steam, eternally fogging up the atmosphere.

Anyway, to get back to our story ... I am too taking this seriously! Which is why I'm pointing out that it's Stephen King - because if we're gonna rip off his ideas we gotta at least spell his name right. :p 'Dark clothes, lithe good looks, guns, sidling up gloomy corridors' -- you're warming up, Prim! Okay, so we'll compromise. We don't need to knock Frannie off too early in the movie - just have that clown grab him during the first minute of the movie and keep him off-screen for the rest (besides, if anyone deserves prolonged exposure to a demonic clown, it's Frannie). Oooh, and we gotta have our angst quota. Reveal that Frannie's betrayed Sean. That'll give our boy the required tormented stuff: "You broke my heart, Frannie. You broke my heart."


But we'll need symbolism. tgshaw, perhaps we could interest you in a spot of film-making? ;)



end whatever that was that went on in the above paragraphs




These comparisons between Frodo and rabbits ... hmm, y'know, I could live with that. I gotta say I love Watership Down and LOTR equally, so if there're film critics who think they're seeing Hazel-rah in Elijah's performance then by gosh, that's one heck of an achievement! Bravo, Elijah Wood! :D



tg, I meant to ask you where that shot came from - you used it as an avatar a couple of days ago, didn't you? I like tonight's Frodo. Yesterday's Frodo actually had me hoping you were doing a Moria series ... yeah, that was a shameless hint. :p

http://maggiebear.crosswinds.net/fellowship14/lotr135.jpg

Remains of AW




Originally posted by ainon
We don't need to knock Frannie off too early in the movie - just have that clown grab him during the first minute of the movie and keep him off-screen for the rest (besides, if anyone deserves prolonged exposure to a demonic clown, it's Frannie).
Completely off-topic :o , but now you've got me thinking about "Killer Clowns from Outer Space"!

Oooh, and we gotta have our angst quota. Reveal that Frannie's betrayed Sean. That'll give our boy the required tormented stuff: "You broke my heart, Frannie. You broke my heart."
If there's one thing that keeps me from liking Francis, that's it. And not just that he did it (I assume you mean with Grace), but that he's not even sorry for it. He tells Grace she shouldn't feel guilty, that both of them were going through a difficult time--Well, she was--she also thought her husband was dead FGS--when you knew he wasn't. Makes a bit of a difference, y'know?!! No, she shouldn't feel guilty... :mad:

But, in a way, I don't know why that scene was even stuck into the movie--it's never followed up on, so what's the point of it? Strangely enough, I don't even think it's meant to make us see Francis as a slimeball--I think we're supposed to like him for being so understanding of Grace :rolleyes: . I could be very wrong on that, but that's how the scene comes across to me.

Could have made a great part of the plot, but it would have taken some screen time to develop it, and that would have meant taking out some of the walking... and gum chewing... and piano music during the walking...

But we'll need symbolism. tgshaw, perhaps we could interest you in a spot of film-making?
Now, that's something it already has too much of, IMHO :rolleyes: !



End AW remains



...so if there're film critics who think they're seeing Hazel-rah in Elijah's performance then by gosh, that's one heck of an achievement! Bravo, Elijah Wood!
Ummm, I don't think that's quite what the reviewers had in mind... Try: Fixed stare and then road kill. :(

...Yesterday's Frodo actually had me hoping you were doing a Moria series ... yeah, that was a shameless hint.
Well, it's not a series exactly ;) .

Originally posted by Prim

edit: ooh ooh ooh! A Matrix version! No. Seriously! That shot in CoF where Mikey runs up the apartment stairs looks very Matrix-y. Dark clothes, lithe good looks, guns, sidling up gloomy corridors. Its so do-able. Of course we might well put Mr Reeves out of a job. Hmmm. Rethink needed....

Totally going with this version. And I agree that Maeglian needs to write the dialogue.

Forgot to say I'll miss you, Prim, but it's nice to know you're with us in spirit even if you haven't time for posting.

Originally posted by tgshaw

Admittedly, Elijah does have some "deer in the headlights" moments, but I don't understand the people who just see those few moments and nothing else . Here's the best example I've found

You know, I never bought into that whole "deer in the headlights" thing. But I think you've convinced me that there's *some* basis for it. :p

I'm with tgshaw on the suddenly thinking I need TV thing. People I know seem to accept that we don't do cable or broadcast TV, but salespeople have major troubles with it. I had a newspaper salesperson some years back insisting that I should get the paper "because it costs less than TV Guide"; she could not get it through her head that I didn't watch TV so had no need of a TV schedule. Just yesterday I had some guy at the door trying to sell me cable TV because it and a cable for the Internet "only costs $3 more" than just the Internet cable. He couldn't get his head around the idea that I didn't want cable TV so I finally just took his flyer to get him to go away. Actually, hubby's work pays for the cable, so I don't know how we'd work that anyhow.

It isn't so much that I don't want TV; I just don't need more invitations in my life to vegetate, and I *definitely* don't want the kids to have constant access to it. We sort of unschool, so controlling the environment in terms of limiting time wasters is pertinent. Still, I never really cared about not having cable TV until I got into EW. Hold firm, tg! If everyone in the world has cable, then someone you know should have Starz, right? And if you provide a video tape (and tape recorder if necessary), they can tape it, right? Do you really want to give up your "moral high ground" for one TV show with EW?

If you do, well then, just pretend I never said any of that... :o It's easy for me to hold firm because hubby would kill the whole plan with A Look. He has a high tolerance for my EW obsession, but there are limits...

I just thank the stars for Elve's site, where I've managed to pick up all manner of stuff I would have had to live without otherwise.

:k :k :k for Elvellon.

Originally posted by ainon

a meticulous British gentleman private detective with a silencer and a gun in a late '80s show called The Equiliser. Which had a pretty nifty opening theme. And lots of steam, eternally fogging up the atmosphere.

ainon! I can't believe it - a fellow Equalizer fan! I liked that show so much I even watched Woodward's next series (which was... er, not as good). The opening theme was written by Stewart Copeland of the Police, which is why I watched the show in the first place (I have a weakness for drummers, I dunno why). Stewart's daddy Miles was instrumental in forming the CIA (according to Police fans - can't remember if my research backed that up but he was definitely in the CIA at any rate). Daddy Miles wrote a great book called "Without Cloak and Dagger" on how the spy world "really" works - oh, and another one I can't remember the name of. Game of Nations, that was it.

Great books in terms of the information, that is... readability is not their strong point, IIRC.

Topic? Bridget, were you saying something about staying on topic?

Well, if the guy isn't in the news and no one's releasing stills or other good stuff, what're we supposed to do?

Maybe it's time for another EW mini-film festival. I could talk hubby into Forever Young without much effort, that's one we haven't discussed much in a while. Or I could break down and actually *watch* Ash Wednesday, instead of just chuckling at the comments of those of you who've suffered through it. But I have a suspicion hubby's comments would not be kind. He's still under the delusion that all EW's done are good or pretty-good flicks; I hate to let him in on reality before we watch a few more. ;)

Sheryl

AW nonsense




Y'all are hilarious.:D I would totally watch a Stephen King version of Ash Wednesday. Prim, I didn't know you were a King reader! (ainon: is she, you know, one of us?;) :D ) So I'm thinking we frame Frannie for Sean's crimes and stick him in prison for a few decades. Let him do his walking around the prison yard where we don't have to see him. Mwahahahaha.http://216.40.249.192/s/contrib/scorchio/swink.gif




okay, I'll try to be serious now


We have a bunch of satellite channels, which is the only reason I'm able to get my Elijah fix.:o I rented Ash Wednesday, but I don't think my family would *quite* understand if I wanted to rent all of Sean and Elijah's movies...:o We don't have Starz, but I'm hoping to convince my dad to get it for us by August. Yeah right.:rolleyes:

Hi Sheryl. Hey, speaking of Chain of Fools (which I wasn't), dare I hope that I have a package coming?;) :k

I think I've lurked enough today. Sheeze, it's the only lurking I've done in a while. :rolleyes:

Last week my maternal grandmother died so erendis and I took to the road for Iowa. (Both my parents are from Iowa). erandis was very gracious to come along even though she wouldn't know anyone. I had planned to take her to Skyline drive, (Front Royal, VA is the Northern part of Skyline Drive) and get her out of the city where she dwells so she could actually see a bit of the country, stars, and all of the sites and sounds that are not part of city life. We even were going to visit with dream wanderer as it was my Birthday present to erendis. (to take her out in the country)

As it turned out my plans changed and we headed out much farther than Front Royal, VA. The Funeral was Friday. Which after a long drive we made it in time for. The following day we drove a bit further to see my paternal grandma who lives in Cedar Rapids, IA (Elijah's stomping grounds.) (Thats why I'm telling this story here. :k )

While visiting with my aunt and grandma we talked a little about Lord of the Rings with them and told them about Elijah being from Cedar Rapids to which they promptly told us the fact the he was realy from Marion, IA a suburb of Cedar Rapids.

erendis was a little disappointed that no shrines have been errected in his honor yet, but on the way home I suggested if he ever would run and get elected as President of the USA that his birthplace would become a national landmark. (I got that idea after seeing signs for Herbert Hoover's Museum and Ronald Reagan's birthplace while going along interstate 80 in Iowa and Illinois.

When our visit was over with my aunt and granny we took a little detour and drove through a section of Marion, IA so erndis could say she was there. She wanted to stop and get some of the soil from Marion to put in her locket she carries with Elijah's picture next to her heart. :eek: j/k

Sorry, I couldn't resist. She didn't say she wanted to stop to get a soil sample. And she doesn't have a picture of Elijah in her locket. :D

BTW you can thank erendis for me posting this here since she told me if I was going to post this I should put it here and not the Harem. :k

I'll go back to lurking again now, thank you for letting me delurk a bit. :cool:

from Ainon Which is why I'm pointing out that it's Stephen King - because if we're gonna rip off his ideas we gotta at least spell his name right

Oops!:rolleyes:
btw: I'm eclectic. I do not rip off ideas.

from Bridget Prim, I didn't know you were a King reader! (ainon: is she, you know, one of us?)

Nope. ;) Just a few snippets I watched by accident on tv. A very strange man.

Talking of strange men: greetings King L. :D I have no idea where EW was born and lived (except that clearly Iowa figures here but it seems to be a big place) and can only say that Marion seems a very odd name for a town.
edit: and what is "IA"?

Posted by tgshaw
Admittedly, Elijah does have some "deer in the headlights" moments...

Thank you very much for putting the image in my head. Now I have to burn my driver's licence and join the Francis Sullivan Memorial Peripatetic Society :D. Walking is good for one's health and there's no chance of ever seeing rabbits, hobbits, penguins, and other dears in the headlights :p.

Again RL is rearing its ugly head and I have had no time to post anything (not that I would have anything to say that would be earth shattering, but still…) but I did want to congratulate Sheryl! I know from conversations we have had that no baby could have a better mommy! (Of course, she and I agree on so much about parenting that might have colored my opinion :D)

Still not caught up with the thread but did want to get that comment in before you got too far ahead of me. :p

Ariel

Prim, "IA" is just a common postal abbreviation for the state of "Iowa"....and Marion is certainly not an odd name for a town, especially when you consider that there are far stranger names in the US, such as Intercourse, PA (that's Pennsylvania) and Defiance (Ohio, I think?), and my own cherished Flushing, NY (which, to its credit is just a corruption of the Dutch word "Vlissingen" Not that I know what THAT means). And don't get me started on British place names such as "Upper Dorking." :p

As for the Stephen King thing...I'm one of you too! And Mr. King is one of US, being a Tolkien fan, and I'd be willing to bet he's seen these movies at least as many times as most of us have, and I couldn't even begin to imagine how many times he's read these books!

Gotta run!!