from Maeglian
I rather liked that Zone review. ... it's high praise to EJW if reviewers think he captures the role of Frodo to such perfection
You're quite correct. I'm just a grump when it comes to reviews. Please ignore me.

7 (yes, seven!!) pics featuring Aragorn! ... I want equal focus on Frodo!!
Oh, dear, I'm starting to get anxious. I keep telling myself it's because ...

*SPOILERS*








There will be effects shots in lots of Frodo's scenes, and they don't want to prerelease those, even assuming they have them developed (which they may not). They took down the pics of the dolls in orc clothing, so maybe they want to hide that as well. Nonbook readers are supposed to be believe that Fro has shuffled off his mortal coil early in the movie. The battle shots are large extravaganza, so they'll want to promote those for the younger male crowd, still demographically considered to be the target audience for this type of movie.

But later, after all ends as happily as possible, we still have to get the hobbits off to the Shire, and then ultimately to the Grey Havens. These will be Aragorn-free moments, so the movie will have to close with Fro, since the king is back in Minas Tirith. They've got to show enough of Fro's journey so that viewers are emotionally moved by his sacrifice, since that's what the movie will end on.


*/SPOILERS*

Hello, Faculty! Long time, no post! :D (That cursed RL, always butting in uninvited! :rolleyes: )

Yay! 3000 posts! Congratulations, Faculty!

I imagine with all the new RotK pictures (way too many Aragorn pictures *grumblegrumble*) released lately, you ladies have been busy and I'll have to spend weeks catching up. *whimper*

Maeg, since when have you been "Marli tharn"? Funny, I've just started reading "Watership Down" again..... :rolleyes: :D

Unfortunately, I have nothing to contribute *ignores cheers from rest of Faculty*... yet, so I'll just be lurking for a while. :)

Tathar wanders off to study those new Frodo pics in detail...

Thank you, Meryl! :)

And welcome back, Tathar; - I'd wondered where you were. :)


*
*
*
Spoilers and follow-up on Mariole's post

Earlier in the year I was thinking that they cannot *possibly* plan to go through the entire RotK promo without showing or hinting at anything beyond "Choices"! But after seeing those latest official pictures I agree with you, Mariole: They want the general audience to believe that Frodo actually dies after Shelob's attack.

I have earlier found that approach hard to believe, because, well, I've been thinking "Oh, come on!!! Everyone *knows* he doesn't die!!" But then again, I also know people (smack in the middle of the main target audience, even) who are seriously into LotR, who have not read the book, and who are avoiding spoilers like the plague so as to be totally surprised when they see the film. And in addition there are all those who'll just go see the film for an evening's entertainment and haven't got a clue about the plot.....

The Frodo & Sam pictures we have gotten so far clearly points to the same. Whether official pics or Game promo or blurry spoilers, they show either Frodo and Sam *before* they enter Shelob's lair, show them in the lair, and then there's the "Pieta" from "Choices", which still sends me absolutely reeling, of course.

But this means that all we may get is more of the same, more of the same..... for 7 months!! :eek: And we won't get to see Shelob, either; - of course they'll want to keep *her* secret till the film is released.

I think that's why I'm not more excited about these recent pictures, beautiful and angsty though they are. (Especially the close-up, that's my favourite. I love Frodo close-ups of that very beautiful, emotional and angsty caliber.) :o There's so little to speculate about here..... High angst in Shelob's lair, pretty much a given..... It's as if I've lost my swoon! :( Help! :eek: :eek:
Does anybody have something to say that'll help bring it back??

Perhaps ainon can do a full-on angst analysis of those pics once she gets back to the net. That might just do the trick!! :)

I'm really envious of the harem at the moment, now there's a bunch of ladies who haven't lost their swoon! :k

Oh well, anyway, that Sam one with the phial is just *great*!!

And really, I absolutely don't mind Aragorn pictures galore. Aragorn is :cool: (Not to use even stronger descriptive terms that also come to mind! :o )


*
*
*
End spoilery this-and-that

Originally posted by Maeglian
There's so little to speculate about here..... High angst in Shelob's lair, pretty much a given.....
But, just think--that gives us 7 months to use our imaginations :p ! If that doesn't work for you, remember you're in the midst of your own angst scenario--suffering this deprivation for the sake of those who are just getting to know and love Frodo! You're going through it for a higher purpose!

I may not be much help in the "swoon" area. Frodo's my favorite character in fiction, and Elijah's the best actor I've ever seen, but for swooning I'll take the Men--especially Eomer (he even looks good cross-eyed).

(BTW, I've posted my comments on the new pics over in the Trilogy forum.)

Hello all.

Haven't said much lately, but I have been lurking whenever possible, and hopefully taking it all in!

Maeg. Thanks for pointing me in the direction of those new Frodo ROTK piccies - :eek: :) I have high hopes for the Shelob encounter, but I do wonder what will be added with the upcoming lengthy re-shoot shedule in NZ.

Hobmom - Haven't they already filmed 'The Grey Havens?' I'm sure I read that Ian Holm was only in NZ for a few weeks towards the beginning of the shoot, and so ALL of his scenes had to be completed then, including 'The Grey Havens.' I would guess that The Havens is one of those scenes that PJ has referred to in some interviews, when he said there were several scenes from ROTK that made him cry, and if it's so moving, think of it - Elijah was only 18 or 19 when that was filmed! Of course, they may decide to scrap the lot and start again, what with blue screen and one thing and another I suppose they could make it look like Bilbo is there anyway!

Hi deluby - It's lovely to see you back. So sorry to hear about your enforced absence - but you're back with us now.:)

Shireling, haven't seen you over the last few pages. Don't you go lurking again!

Nice to see you here too, Luthiea. Btw - happy belated birthday. Sorry I missed it!

Hi to Mariole.

It's very late but I mainly came to post links to some gifs of 'The Good Son.' Tg and Maeg - I'm still working on the 'food' one, but it will be here soon. Until then:

Mark missing his Mom: http://www.imagemagician.com/images/blossom/MissMomfollow.gif

and:
http://www.imagemagician.com/images/blossom/MissMomhug.gif

And this one because I took one look at the expression on his face the first time I watched the film and my heart just melted:
http://www.imagemagician.com/images/blossom/GoodSonashes.gif

I have to say the DVD isn't the greatest quality - a bit grainy, so please accept my apologies for that. Oh, and the gifs do look small, I know, but if you download them and then open them in Windows picture and fax viewer you can magnify them. You all probably know that anyway, but just thought I'd mention it.

I was going to say something about the fanfic issue but just remembered elevensies' comment about it being in the appropriate thread - so I'll trot off to bed instead.

Goodnight to all.

P.S Happy 3000th post Faculty! :)

Hey guys, another ROTK pic here, found it on COE, it's in the same Maxim mag that the very blurry Frodo pic was from.

~~~~~~SPOILER~~~~~~



http://members.lycos.co.uk/duckycc/headlessking.jpg



~~~~~~SPOILER END~~~~~~



Blossom, LOVELY gifs from The Good Son!!! Especially the first one. :k

*
*
Spoilers for RotK
*
*

Deluby, you marvel, you!! :k

THAT picture is more like it! With the ending scene we got in TTT I never *imagined* we'd get the king without his head and "They cannot conquer for ever".... and then it turns out it has been filmed!! Oh, look at the lovely slanting sunshine and the 2 small hobbits standing next to the statue; - I hope they show them finding the head and the crown of flowers! Oh, that is such a *lovely* scene! Lovely and beautiful, PJ! Hope you're listening! I wonder whether it'll open RotK? I wonder whether it'll be in at all?

Maeg tries to stop hyperventilating and calmes down. :o
It's just; - thinking about all the ground and all the scenes that needs to be covered in that film makes me really nervous.... so many great scenes that may have to be cut out or cut short because of time restraints!

I mean, taking care of Saruman and getting Frodo to the top chamber of CU.... that could take the first third of the movie!

Oh, I'm hoping, hoping, hoping! - That THAT one will be in!! Isn't it great! Oh, what a lovely pic! Thank you! :)


*
*
*
End spoilery jumping-for-joy-and-hugging-Deluby
*
*



Tg, I like your words of comfort. Makes me feel deprived, but noble. :D "Suffering this deprivation for the sake of those who are just getting to know and love Frodo! You're going through it for a higher purpose!" OK, yes, I can feel noble and all better now. Thank you. :D Still want some post-CU hinting pics, though.


Blossom! :k What fantastic gifs! :)

Especially the first one, the mirror-of-Galadriel Froshadowing par exellence! It mirrors the Mirror so closely that I actually wonder if EJW himself was struck by the same thought when preparing to walk hesitantly down those Lothlorien set steps while watching the white-clad woman down below......

http://www.click-smilies.de/sammlung/party/party-smiley-017.gif http://www.click-smilies.de/sammlung/party/party-smiley-018.gif Congratulations Faculty on 3000 posts http://www.click-smilies.de/sammlung/party/party-smiley-017.gif http://www.click-smilies.de/sammlung/party/party-smiley-018.gif

I have been reading all the posts, but haven’t had a chance to put my thoughts together in a post. (Sometimes it’s hard to make the brain cells cooperate all together in a timely way.)

Amazing ROTK pictures, absolutely amazing. Mariol, I think you’re right in your theory, we may not be seeing very much of Frodo post Shelob in any previews. Sam, perhaps, but not Frodo. :(

But these glimpses – they are very good. Oh yes.

(Those are great 'Good Son' gifs, Blossom - Thank you!)

3000 posts!

Peachy does a Kermit the Frog in the Muppet Show.
Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay Faculty!

Don't you just love being able to anticipate ROTK? The wait may be painful, but we’ll only ever be able to do it once.
I can’t believe that in a few months I’ll be seeing CU on the screen. Sam and the phial. Frodo in the Tower. Mount Doom. Eowyn with her sword. The Grey – the Grey - oh, lordy.

I go away for a few days and when I get back there're 3,000 posts! WooHoo!! {{{{{Faculty}}}}}}

And there's Bunnie! Thank you for the article. :k And hello again, Tathar, and Estella and Meryl and Luth ... where do you keep running off to, Luth? :)

Blossom, thanks for the gifs - downloading them now. And I second Blossom's request that Shireling ought not be merely lurking again. ;)

Thanks so, so much deluby for the quick links to all the right pics. But hold on. What's this very blurry Frodo pic from Maxim mag thingy?? :eek:


Peachy:
Don't you just love being able to anticipate ROTK? The wait may be painful, but we’ll only ever be able to do it once.

Very nicely put, Peachy, and oh yes, I do plan to enjoy this excruciating wait as much as possible!

Speaking as a veteran of being spoiled to the gills whilst waiting for the darned episodes to finally get to this part of the world (err, yeah, that'd be in reference to nonLOTR stuff. I mean, I did have other things to be obsessed with before Frodo barged back into my life, y'know? :p ), there's nothing nobler than being deprived, Maeg, keep that in mind. And there's no such thing as satisfaction when it comes to being spoiled either. :D

Btw, about the pick-ups ... a few weeks back there was news that Andy Serkis was already down in NZ (not that that tells us anything, because he probably spends the most time down there anyway, despite being an 'animated' character), and also the very significant news that Orlando Bloom was done with his job as Legolas. We could probably assume that the pick-ups times for the actors are staggered, and the nine week period being talked about did not literally mean everyone having to be down there for the whole nine weeks.

What got me about the Orlando Bloom news was that it means the hobbits and the elf will never be together again in Middle Earth. Sure they'll meet at the premiere and publicity events and all, and during whatever special edition DVD remix occasions of the future, but they'll never be hanging around while on the job. Really brings home the point that this movie will be it - the absolute last one on this wonderful LOTRfilm ride.


About the spoiler pics --
With my slow connection, I never waited to look at the other characters much - I simply clicked on 'Next' without waiting for the image to appear, so that I could get to Frodo as soon as possible. Darn devious of lordoftherings.net to put the two Frodo pics so far apart. :p I did stop to appreciate a lovely Pippin shot though. And to observe Aragorn's new hairstyle. Missed Eomer's crossed-eyes that had tg swooning though. :D

Anyway, I have the pics, and now that Maeg has got her angst-swoon back, I'll go and start my angsty hyperventilating. ;)

... on your 3K. :)

Hi to Niph and Peachy -- Welcome back to ainon :)



Originally posted by Maeglian

*
*
Spoilers for RotK
*
*

Deluby, you marvel, you!! :k

THAT picture is more like it! With the ending scene we got in TTT I never *imagined* we'd get the king without his head and "They cannot conquer for ever".... and then it turns out it has been filmed!! Oh, look at the lovely slanting sunshine and the 2 small hobbits standing next to the statue; - I hope they show them finding the head and the crown of flowers! Oh, that is such a *lovely* scene! Lovely and beautiful, PJ! Hope you're listening! I wonder whether it'll open RotK? I wonder whether it'll be in at all?

...Oh, I'm hoping, hoping, hoping! - That THAT one will be in!! Isn't it great! Oh, what a lovely pic! Thank you! :)


*
*
*

*
*




Ditto all of the above (and the hugs for Deluby, which I moved to below to cover my own "spoilery stuff"). Even if that scene doesn't make it into the movie (perish the thought :eek: ), we've got this lovely pic forever. :) It's one of those pure moments when, IMHO, perfect book canon and perfect movie setting come together. Even the slanting sunshine is directly from the book. Wow...







*

*

*
End spoilery jumping-for-joy-and-hugging-Deluby





It mirrors the Mirror so closely that I actually wonder if EJW himself was struck by the same thought when preparing to walk hesitantly down those Lothlorien set steps while watching the white-clad woman down below......
...or if PJ had watched this scene before filming the one in Lothlorien...

Wonderful gifs, Blossom... Thanks! I was curious to see which scene melted your heart, and that one certainly can do it. When I started my "Wood Movies" page--some months before FotR came out--I actually had a count of how many dead parents Elijah's had :( (It's since made way for more important things). One of the occupational hazards of being a child actor, I suppose, especially a child actor in movies aimed at adults. Great angst training, though, eh :p ?

Edit: Well, I had to go count, didn't I :rolleyes: ? Obsessive--who's obsessive :eek: !?

Assuming Mikey II is telling the truth, and splitting the difference for the Artful Dodger (counting one parent as dead and the other as missing), Elijah's characters have had a total of 16 dead parents and 4 "missing" parents (completely and permanently gone from the character's life). Then, personally, I like to add two might-as-well-be-dead parents for Mikey I, and one would-be-better-off-dead for Casey's father :D . /Edit


...I do plan to enjoy this excruciating wait as much as possible!
ROTFL -- spoken like a true angst-maven!! You do realize most people would read that and scratch their heads? But I totally agree--we're only going to pass this way once, so let's do it right... :D ...and when the wait is over, everything will be... over... :(

To be serious, though, I hope when The Movie is completed (all 9 or 12 hours of it), it'll have the same quality the book has of being able to be experienced as something new every time it's watched. And having seen the first two installments (especially the first, IMVHO), I do really have hope for that.

----------------

Blossom's gifs remind me that my own research output has been down lately. Work has been intense for the last two weeks, except for the short break to go to my mom's (where there's no computer :rolleyes: ). But this coming week, at least, should be better. I'm hoping to be able to serve up some tasty crebain by the end of May ;) --possibly along with one or two side dishes :p .

tgshaw--The missing/dead parents count is absolutely hilarious :). Should you perhaps report the results to the editors of the Guinness Book of World Records? ;)

Re: spoilers. I've made it a rule for myself to avoid "visual spoilers" for movies I'm going to watch. It's pretty difficult not to break this rule, of course, aggressive promotion being what it is nowadays :p. Plot spoilers I don't care that much about; I haven't been genuinely surprised by a plot twist for a very long time anyway :p.

As a long time Faculty lurker, I just wanted to pop in and say Congratulations on 3000 posts ! I believe I can say I've read every one and enjoyed them all. Keep up the good work. :cool:

I very nearly got CoF from ebay.uk but someone pipped me to the post at the last few seconds. :mad: Still it was only my first attempt at bidding for something so I shant give up. Committed researchers have to get used to a few failed experiments after all dont they? And I am committed. Or my family think I should be anyway. :p

I may not post much in this thread , but I take copious notes. :D

And I'm sure I read somewhere that the ROTK trailer is going to show....

**** Spoiler alert ****
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Frodo claiming the Ring at MD !!!! :eek:
Why on earth give that away !!!
I sure hope that rumour is wrong.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
******** end spoiler ********

Deluby, love the spoiler pic! Oh, I so hope this scene is in! THANK YOU!

Re your possible spoiler, quicksilver, they showed that scene at the Cannes film festival way back in 2001. According to the article I read, they closed the collection of LOTR film clips with it. So we know it's floating around. I know it's still early, but I think New Line is wanting to play events closer to the vest this time around (I think we might agree that they have sufficiently tested the water at this point! :p). I agree, it would be odd to prerelease this, especially if they want a "Choices of Master Samwise" fake-out.

Unlike Brunhild, I find the text comments to be more spoilerish than the pictures. When I paged through the 25-pic gallery, I shrank the window to cut off the text, and was quite happy I did so.

from tgshaw
...or if PJ had watched this scene before filming the one in Lothlorien...
An interesting theory! I suspect he watched "Ice Storm" -- isn't that where Fran had originally seen Elijah and noticed that he had an interesting face?

In any case, lovely gifs, Blossom. Thanks for sharing those!

I hope when The Movie is completed (all 9 or 12 hours of it), it'll have the same quality the book has of being able to be experienced as something new every time it's watched.
This was true for FOTR for me, not so much for TTT. Maybe my appreciation for it will improve once I see where the invented character arcs are going in ROTK.

re dead parents:

and one would-be-better-off-dead for Casey's father
:D I always assumed that the dad got sucked into the collective. I suspect they may even have filmed this, as it was such a setup with Casey looking over his shoulder as his father and the coach were talking. That's almost as good as dead, isn't it?

Obsessive--who's obsessive !?
If you want a truly sad story, look at my post in the fanfic thread. The people in the white coats are coming for me as you read...

we're only going to pass this way once, so let's do it right...
Spoken like a true wise woman, tg (wise women, I should say, as ainon introduced the idea). I'm so trying to do it right ... looking at the pictures, biting my lips, refusing to nibble my fingernails...

Maeg tries to stop hyperventilating and calmes down.
It's just; - thinking about all the ground and all the scenes that needs to be covered in that film makes me really nervous.... so many great scenes that may have to be cut out or cut short because of time restraints!
I know, I know! So far I've resisted counting pages in the book, but I'm quite worried. No, no I'm not. *deliberately unclenches jaw, relaxes hands, repeats to self, "It's only a movie..."*

*peers anxiously over shoulder, expecting lightning from the sky, or perhaps a frozen trout...*

Must run. There's a knock at the door, and I can see a wagon outside with wire mesh over the windows. Perhaps they've been reading my posts...

Shireling, haven't seen you over the last few pages. Don't you go lurking again!

Oh I'm still here - although I do seem to have slipped into lurkery again! Its actually more of an awed silence - I'm so impressed by the ability of everyone here to put their views in such an articulate, expressive and often amusing way. I am not worthy!!

I so agree about "enjoying this excrutiating wait" for ROTK - I'm detemined to savour every moment of anticipation - I can hardly bear to think about the time when this will just be a memory. I find now that whenever I see any mention of new ROTK pics or info I actually get butterflies in my stomach:)

Quicksilver - re your worry over the rumoured spoiler in the ROTK trailer - that scene was also shown at Cannes which I found very surprising!

Congrats on the 3,000 postings:)

Welcome back ainon!!
Originally posted by ainon
What's this very blurry Frodo pic from Maxim mag thingy?? It's the Frodo-in-shelob's-lair pic. Sorry i didn't explain clearer. :o
~~~~Spoiler~~~~~

http://www.theonering.net/scrapbook/view/6543

~~~~Spoiler~~~~~

Found some little interview snippets from TTT promotional tour.

Elijah Talking about the world and different cultures. (836kb)
http://www.cosmomind.com/video/elijah_wood_01.mov

Playing with a plastic globe. :p (254kb)
http://www.cosmomind.com/video/elijah_wood_02.mov

Talking about friends (628kb):
http://www.cosmomind.com/video/elijah_wood_03.mov

A short note from theater viewing #6 last night: This doesn't directly concern EJW, but I thought it was nice, anyway--Kiran is listed first under "doubles" in the credits :) .

Originally posted by mariol3b3
Re your possible spoiler, quicksilver, they showed that scene at the Cannes film festival way back in 2001... I agree, it would be odd to prerelease this, especially if they want a "Choices of Master Samwise" fake-out.
Unless something smuggled out of Cannes starts making the rounds on the internet now that the movie's closer. If that happens, NewLine might figure the cat's out of the bag, anyway. But IMHO they don't have to be concerned about the clip actually having been shown at Cannes (which I'm sure they figured out a couple of years before I did, or they wouldn't have shown it :rolleyes: ). Those of us who were paying attention to such things at the time kinda already know the plot. :p



Big RotK Book/Movie Plot Spoilers--Just in Case








----But if someone from NewLine is reading this, and they are thinking of putting that scene in the trailer--on behalf of all newbies--please don't!! After 30+ years, I still haven't forgiven the magazine that ran a book review of LotR before I read the book and described that scene :mad: ! I still have pangs of wishing I could have truly experienced Sam's feelings about Frodo's death just once. In fact, when I did read the book, that's the one thing that upset me about that scene being described in the review; I didn't mind so much knowing exactly what happened at the CD, but I really minded knowing that Frodo couldn't possibly be dead because he shows up again later.---------

Of course, they did give away Gandalf's return beforehand, but that's a bit different because Ian McKellan was obviously on the cast list for all three movies so it was no secret that he'd be back in some form. Frodo's "death" is different because he could die at that point and Elijah would still be on the cast list for RotK. In fact, I've read a couple of posts from people who've spoken to newbies (don't you just love third-hand hearsay :p ?) who are expecting Frodo to die fairly early in RotK because of that very reason (that his death had to be put off until the last movie so the cast list wouldn't give it away).

When I started typing, I didn't mean to say quite that much on that one topic :rolleyes: --I guess because I had that spoiled for me, I have strong feelings about it not being spoiled for others.








End RotK Book/Movie Spoilers



{{{Tolkien virgins}}}


--------------


...I suspect he watched "Ice Storm" -- isn't that where Fran had originally seen Elijah and noticed that he had an interesting face?
Yes on Fran's comment. I have no idea how much of an actor's previous work PJ would have checked out before making a casting decision; it'd be interesting to know.

:D I always assumed that the dad got sucked into the collective.
Yeah, but he was already a #@*$% before that ;) . [And a clarification for something poorly worded: I meant Casey would have been better off if his dad had been dead. The collective was too late to save Casey from what had probably been a miserable childhood. Poor, misunderstood geekboy :( .]

I know, I know! So far I've resisted counting pages in the book...
One hopeful thought is that so much of RotK's thickness is from the appendices and index :) . So story-wise, it is somewhat shorter than the other two volumes. And we already know the scouring is out, which leaves even fewer pages to worry about. But, then, there's the unfinished business from TTT to take care of yet. Before it's really RotK, we have to get Sam&Frodo to CU and Pippin&Gandalf to Minas Tirith.

One thing that had me concerned (especially knowing PJ's fondness for the Bakshi movie and his tendency to imitate certain things from it) was that Bakshi's movie ended at precisely the same point as PJ's TTT, with the end of the battle of Helm's Deep and Gollum leading Frodo&Sam toward Shelob (although, IIRC, Bakshi does get them partway up the stairs). That means Bakshi covered the same territory in 1 out of 2 movies that PJ did in 2 out of 3, which doesn't seem like very good odds. But then I started looking at some of the things Bakshi left out, especially from TTT: the Dead Marshes, the Black Gate, stewed rabbit, any mention of Faramir--in other words, most of the Frodo&Sam part of TTT. And it wouldn't have made any sense to include those scenes in the second movie, so I assume they were just eliminated. PJ also showed the destruction of Isengard, which I think Bakshi was probably planning to put into the second movie because he does introduce Treebeard.

So we may make it, yet :) --especially with PJ's statement that RotK will be "as long as it needs to be," which as far as I know no one at NewLine has refuted.

Originally posted by tgshaw
One hopeful thought is that so much of RotK's thickness is from the appendices and index :) . So story-wise, it is somewhat shorter than the other two volumes.
I counted.

There are approximately 240 pages of material (leaving out the Scouring) in RotK to cover. Approximately 210 pages of material from TTT were covered in the movie, leaving approximately 100 pages of TTT material to be possibly picked up (maybe the post-Helm's Deep TTT has been truncated?).

But approximately 300 pages of material in FotR were covered, even considering that Tom Bombadil and the Conspiracy and everything were left out.

Mel, still worried, and not believing "it will be as long as it needs to be" for one moment

Mel, did you count the pages from The Departure of Boromir, which were covered in FotR? Although I suppose that would cancel out the pages of the flashback half of Flotsam and Jetsam, which was covered in real time. :D

I've never seen Bakshi and didn't intend to, but now that I see Faramir was cut out entirely, I still don't intend to (well that accomplishes a lot, doesn't it. :rolleyes: )

Thanks, deluby. :) That pic.



SPOILER REMARK
*
*
*
*
*


I was looking at that pic again and this time the thought crossed my mind - are those spider legs up close to camera? Framing the pic on the left and right?


I've yet to feel any great appreciation for the headless statue pic, because first I'm trying to deal with the idea that the status is so BIG! In my imagination, it had always been a small thing - don't ask me why I imagined that, but the statue and the lost head were always smaller than the hobbits. I know someone posted a drawing of a large statue some time back, but that one never registered with me. This real pic from a real scene shot for the movie has suddenly forced to change my perspective about things. D'oh.





*
*
*
*
*
*
END SPOILER



Thanks too for the links to the interview! "I love the smell of plastic" (paraphrasing) ... okay, that's a quote you don't get everyday. :D

Blossom, your 'Good Son' gifs are great! You cover a lot of material in each of them - I got a nice kick out of how long the scenes played before they started looping back. :)

tg - sad as it is to have Elijah's characters' sad family relationship catalogued in such tragic terms, it's still darn LOL funny that you were keeping track. :cool:


I have no idea how much of an actor's previous work PJ would have checked out before making a casting decision; it'd be interesting to know.

PJ did say that he knew Elijah's name, so he knew the actor existed. But he'd never seen Elijah in anything before. So it is a true blessing that Fran had see 'Ice Storm' and was there calling the shots! And a blessing to us all that PJ trusted her. :)



Vaguely on-topic only because Billy Boyd is Elijah's friend ;) -- in this interview here (http://www.action-figure.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=7948) Billy said:

“After reading the Hobbit we so loved Bilbo Baggins and Gollum. But when we
started reading Lord of the Rings as young men, it was all about Frodo and
these people we didn’t know. ... "

Obviously I'm quoting out-of-context, but hey, it's a nice, quick interview and worth a read, so go ahead and get the real stuff. ;) I quoted this because well, leaving aside the 'love Gollum' bit, and that stuff about 'young men', that kinda describes what I first thought of LOTR when I started reading it. 'The Hobbit' was such a fun book, and Bilbo was so sweet and I loved him, then to come to LOTR and find the language to be so heavy-handed and boring (don't trout me! I was just a kid then!), and to have this young upstart of a hobbit named Frodo usurping Bilbo's role as a hero :mad: :p ... anyway, Billy Boyd of all people just made me realise that probably the greatest literary achievement of my life was when I decided to keep on reading FotR even when I was sure I wouldn't like it and grumping that Frodo was a bore. :p :D

To twist this back to topic by hook or by crook -- wonder if that's why Elijah never got to reading LOTR? The transition from 'The Hobbit' to LOTR could be a valid turn-off to a kid who really wants to spend time catching up with more fun Bilbo adventures. Sounds shallow, I know :o but I am speaking from experience.

Mel, I'm with you. I don't think it'll be as long as it needs to be either. 3 hours 15 minutes is the max teatrical release length, is my guess.

OTOH, some of you may recall that Bakshi was my introduction to LotR. After I'd read the book, I remember thinking about what on earth Bakshi was planning to fill his next full-length motion picture with, given the stage in the story he had already reached with his first film and the characters that hadn't even been introduced or developed. Perhaps that bodes well for PJ. after all.....
(And I'm forever grateful that I never got to see the miniskirted viking version of Faramir. :D )


Shireling, please do jump in with any comment and opinion you'd like to share! :)
I'm willing to take bets that all of us worry about the content of our posts (although some of us simply cannot be made to stop gabbing, no matter what...... :o :o )


(((Quicksilver))), thank you for the kind words! Hope to see you continuing to delurk now and then too. If not, I'll see you when I lurk in the Harem! :)


Brunhild, I totally agree with you on the visual spoiler impact.
Of course, reading about a plot change or a scene that will take place clues you in on the action and storyline. But IMO, only the visuals show whether the scene really *works*! As an example; when I first read in the FotR EE DVD spoilers about the little scene on the riverbank where Sam is trying to get Frodo to eat, and Frodo says Sam can't help him.... I was sure that would be one of my absolute angst-fillled favourites. But it isn't. I'm still uncertain why it feels off to me, but it does. I never would have guessed that from reading about it.


Ahem.......


Fellow harem lurkers may be aware that the last week or so has seen a virtual outpouring of saucy and imaginative limericks from the haremites (including several great ones from Mariole, I might add, and so many fabulous ones from Peachy that I'm still ROTFLMAO!) All this rhyming activity has made it awfully tempting to at least *try* to put one together in here, too. I finally managed one, and then several more more or less wrote themselves! So here follows my tentative and halting Faculty-style limericks:


The TTT EE DVD anticipation limerick

The Faculty notes with great glee
that research is still called for to see
whether Huck, Mark or Wren,
Mikey, Casey or ten
other roles shadow Fro in TT.


The regal RotK anticipation limerick

When on topic we never need wince:
Lij's acting is high class, and since
his performance is royal
noble Fro keeps us loyal
in Return of the King he's our prince!


The Faculty promo limerick

If your mind is all bent on research
here you'll never be left in the lurch.
When your topic is Fro
and Elijah, just go
to the Faculty; that's your right perch!


The "No, I am *not* in denial" limerick

Lij's age is by no means a factor:
He's a wonderful, talented actor!
Though he's still in his tweens
we're all glued to our screens
and his looks sure don't impact this fact.......or...?


Mariole, now you know: The people in the white coats that were knocking on your door were just doing so to ask directions to my place............ :D :eek:

And I'm counting on Lij being pronounced with 2 syllables. Is it?

Originally posted by erendis
Mel, did you count the pages from The Departure of Boromir, which were covered in FotR? Although I suppose that would cancel out the pages of the flashback half of Flotsam and Jetsam, which was covered in real time. :D
I counted from The Riders of Rohan through Helm's Deep (figuring that we still needed a reunion between A, L, & G and M & P), and then from The Taming of Smeagol through The Forbidden Pool. So I guess add in another 10 pages for the Isengard flashbacks to the TTT page total, so 220 pages covered. I don't know whether the Osgiliath scene replaced any of the Journey to the Crossroads/Stairs of CU material, so I left that in the uncovered material (though you could move two pages from RotK to TTT for the stories conversation that ends TTT).

From RotK, I left out Homeward Bound and The Scouring of the Shire out of the page count. You could probably make the argument that Many Partings is likely to be left out and/or severely shortened, so you could subtract another 15 pages from RotK. That leaves 225 pages (from RotK) plus a minimum of 50 pages (The Voice of Saruman and The Palantir, to off Saruman and get Gandalf and Pippin en route to MT, and Shelob's Lair and Choices, cause they've just GOT to be in) from RotK. So a total of 275 minimum pages of material to be covered. But, unlike FotR, it isn't exposition, it's drama and action and character development and angst...

And there were THREE Arwen pictures in that spoiler set... :rolleyes:

Mel

Mel, still worried, and not believing "it will be as long as it needs to be" for one moment
What Maeglian said. The 4 hours 20 minutes rumor got another airing on Always and Forever. This news was greeted as "Yea!" at TORN and "oh my aching butt" at A&F. News has since been debunked. I understand that there are 3 cuts of various lengths, and that the one Elijah (and some other hobbit actors?) saw was the shortest, the 3-hr cut. This is the one that he has said in interviews that he really liked. I'm guessing New Line will like it as well.

Trying not to stress about page counts ... taking deep breaths...

from ainon
wonder if that's why Elijah never got to reading LOTR? The transition from 'The Hobbit' to LOTR could be a valid turn-off to a kid
I know many people who failed to push through FOTR, and I don't blame EW for being one of those. I do wish that he might have been able to bring a little coaching for a more feisty Fro to the table as a result of his reading, but it's all moot now. I think both Ian M and Sean A did a good job of sticking up for their characters as a result of their reading. Sigh.

from tgshaw
I meant Casey would have been better off if his dad had been dead.
As in, dead for a long time? Yes, his parents were not particularly helpful, which has led to all sorts of angsty Casey fics on the internet. It's miserable, but makes for a more interesting character.


Maeglian, you're a wicked, wicked person! Starting limericks in the Faculty, what madness are you unleashing? LOVED your submissions. Darn it, I'm supposed to be working! :D


In other news, the SFX Magazine Awards selected Viggo Mortensen as best actor over Elijah. But they also chose Terry Pratchett as a better author than JRRT, so go figure. Details here:
http://www.theonering.net/perl/newsview/8/1053283268

I've yet to feel any great appreciation for the headless statue pic, because first I'm trying to deal with the idea that the status is so BIG! In my imagination, it had always been a small thing - don't ask me why I imagined that, but the statue and the lost head were always smaller than the hobbits. I know someone posted a drawing of a large statue some time back, but that one never registered with me. This real pic from a real scene shot for the movie has suddenly forced to change my perspective about things. D'oh.


Actually, I always pictured the same thing -- maybe not as small as you imagined, but certainly not that big! (Don't you hate it when you are forced to change your perspective?) :rolleyes:

Off-topic here (since when has that ever stopped me? :p), but a friend of mine mentioned that she would like to get "Bumblebee" on DVD, but she didn't think it was available yet and I told her I'd ask you ladies. So? :D Help is appreciated (since I'm too lazy to look it up myself :o ...)

Edit: Tathar--just saw your post. Yep, I've got Bumblebee on DVD. If your friend's in region 1 (U.S. and Canada), it's available on DVD but she might have to look for it a bit. I got mine from amazon.com, then saw a message weeks later that they were out of stock (but that usually means they're ordering more). The one I received is actually a Canadian version.

Edit of Edit: I just checked the fastest way I know how, and amazon is still "out of stock," but they do have one person selling a used copy (if you consider "factory sealed" used). These instructions might be a little self-serving, but IMO it's also the quickest method: Go to the Wood Movies (http://members.tripod.com/afewwords_tgs/id62.htm) page on my website, click on "Bumblebee Flies Anyway" in the alphabetical list in the lefthand frame, go to the end of the comments and click on the "Bumblebee Flies Anyway: DVD" link. That will get you to the page for new and used copies at amazon.

(Of course, you can also go to amazon and search for it :) .) I actually use those links on the Wood Movies page quite often--even though I personally can't buy anything through them--to check on what's available and what's not; it's kind of handy.

Originally posted by mariol3b3
As in, dead for a long time? Yes, his parents were not particularly helpful, which has led to all sorts of angsty Casey fics on the internet.
Guess I shouldn't be surprised, but it just never entered my mind. I think I'd just as soon remain ignorant of what other characters are appearing in fanfics :( (although I think our suggested rewrites and sequels of Ash Wednesday were much better than the original :p ).

It's miserable, but makes for a more interesting character.
Of course, which is why it happens so often in fiction :p . Dead or dysfunctional parents are great ways to not only add angst/character development, but even to affect the plot of the story: If Frodo's parents hadn't died when he was young, making it possible for Bilbo to adopt him, things could have been very different! If Huck's mother hadn't died and/or his father had been a responsible parent, he might have been civilized, and then where would we be? No Artful Dodger... No Mikey the hitman... Barney wouldn't have been a ward of the state. Mark wouldn't have been sent to stay with his cousin. The list could go on.

I'm not sure what would have happened if Stu's father hadn't died--but we sure would have missed out on some great emoting from Elijah (and--heaven forbid--Kevin Costner might have gotten top billing if he'd been around for the whole movie :eek: ).

But they also chose Terry Pratchett as a better author than JRRT, so go figure.
Okay, I'm a bit confused here... Is this an award for "best science fiction/fantasy author of all time," or has JRRT written something during the past year that was nominated :confused: ?

from Mel
And there were THREE Arwen pictures in that spoiler set...
That's what really concerns me more than if there's time to cover everything that needs to be covered. IMVHO, three hours would be enough to give us a decent version of RotK--if PJ/NewLine & associates don't use up time with their own additions. Which, of course, they will, but I hope to a lesser degree than they managed with TTT.

Maeglian--Artistic inclinations in a respectable researcher are not necessarily a sign of mental disorder. A certain Oxford professor of Anglo-Saxon provides a glorious example to the contrary ;).
Originally posted by ainon
...then to come to LOTR and find the language to be so heavy-handed and boring [...] wonder if that's why Elijah never got to reading LOTR?
I should better refrain myself from expounding the numerous reasons that may compel a person experiencing no apparent difficulties with cumbersome phrases to feel no affinity towards LOTR whatsoever nonetheless :D :D.

Spoilery comment









Frodo claiming the Ring in a lugubrious cavern could actually be a reasonable, if unlikely, teaser trailer. It will probably tell the newbies that Frodo doesn't die in Shelob's lair; but I'm not sure that there are many people who don't know that Hollywood spiders paralyse their victims first :p. More importantly, it won't spoil anything for those in the know because this is a scene that absolutely must be in the film no matter what other cuts or additions the dangerous maniac PJ will eventually make.









End of spoilery comment

Edit: Since everyone's writing limericks, here's a feeble effort from the resident dissenter :D:

A Kiwi whose ego was strong
Made a film that was awfully long.
Being asked, "What the hell?"
He retorted, "Oh, well,
I rehearsed the Return of the Kong!"

Maeglian, the ease with which you rhyme English and play with phrases is awesome! And it's not your first language, either. Brilliant! :cool: Bows to the Faculty's limerick queen and requests a similar display in the Harem. Yes, you can do it! Just for a moment, pretend that you swoon for Frodo. ;) We won't hold it against you! :D

O Maeglian, do let down your hair;
Swoon a bit for our Squire so fair!
If you write such a verse,
We will think none the worse
Of your scholarly talents, we swear!

:)

Thank'ee kindly for the info, tg, I'll pass it along to my friend. :D (And I love your avatar, btw! Think of all the things one might be able to get away with if one could just figure out how to make that face....)

Brunhild, I'm surprised at you! Dangerous maniac?? :eek: (Tathar fails to mention the fact that she secretly agrees...)

All right, back to lurking now. *Ignores cheers from Faculty members* Only two hundered and what? 13 days now? 'Til RotK! :rolleyes: :D

Originally posted by mariol3b3
I understand that there are 3 cuts of various lengths, and that the one Elijah (and some other hobbit actors?) saw was the shortest, the 3-hr cut. This is the one that he has said in interviews that he really liked. I'm guessing New Line will like it as well.
This frightens me more than any other "spoiler" I've read. What's the source for that again? I'm a little suspicous. If you're a director and you want to bargain for a long movie, you should start very long and gradually cut down, grudgingly giving up every minute kicking and screaming. If you start with a short cut, New Line can just say "Why do you need a long movie? You've already proven you can do 3hr" which immediately ends any negotiation. I suppose you could do 3 hr if the Gondorian family angst is largely a DVD phenomenon. :rolleyes:

This is where Elijah's relative cluelessness about the book is a real drawback. If Christopher Lee said he liked the 3-hour RotK I would breathe easier.

btw, I almost gave up on LotR when the Three Hunters were arguing about whether to track the hobbits by day or night. I almost gave up during the Battle of Helm and his frickin' Deep. Thank goodness I stuck around for Sam and Frodo.

:( Oh, but the Gondorian Family Angst is why I love Faramir so much! Surviving those family tangles and traumas on top of a whole people expecting him to perform miracles.
We have already *seen* so much half-elven family angst galore, it's time to turn another leaf, PJ! (Insert worried begging frowny smiley here....)

I try not to angst about it, but it sure is easy to come up with scenes that I really want to see and that might be cut due to time restraints and with the LotR newbies none the wiser. The Gondorian family angst, the forced orc march, various Pippin and Merry moments...... the wheel of fire speech... :eek:


I approached the hobbit and LotR in the opposite order of ainon. Read LotR first, loved it so much I can't even remember speculating or worrying over the plot while I read it. I just inhaled it, gobbled it up, at full speed ahead, and didn't take any time to *think* before the ship had left the Grey Havens. I'm peeved at myself for that, now, because if I'd read it today I would have plottet the next steps for every part of the story.... and that would have been wonderful. Having finished LotR I threw myself at the Hobbit, and was mightily disappointed. No Frodo!? :( And everything so relatively light and funny compared to the dire language at the end of LotR.... I was *quite* disappointed! :rolleyes:


Brunhild - :cool: limerick! And concerning PJ as a dangerous maniac, I agree in a *certain* sense ...... :D "Maniac", because, well, if you are totally sane would you really take on a demanding project of such immense magnitude and with such a high risk factor, not to mention with a rumoured-to-be-rabid purist following? And "Dangerous"; well, if he does RotK right, he'll have people fainting and crying in the cinemas right, left and center.... they'll need emergency teams standing by!! :D


Tg, you may *not* want to read the following, but I just couldn't resist:

Had a look at fanfiction net. The only EJW film apart from LotR that has been the subject of Fanfics is in fact "The Faculty" (Well, anyway, if discounting "Back to the Future". ) The Faculty has 50 fics available, 48 were posted after FotR premiered. From the very brief synopsis of each, they may roughly be divided among 3 topics:
- Follow-up of the previous film, new alien attacks and Casey to the rescue.
- Mary-Sues, mainly involving Casey.
- Slash (also, you guessed it... :D involving Casey).

And one LotR/Faculty crossover. :eek: I think it's reasonably fair to say that the Faculty fanfic derives from and owes its all to EJW and LotR. :rolleyes:


Meryl: :k Thank you! :) :) I'll see what I can do! Problem is, I tend to go rather non-verbal when I swoon; - then again, isn't that sort of the point? :o

Originally posted by Maeglian
I approached the hobbit and LotR in the opposite order of ainon. Read LotR first, loved it so much I can't even remember speculating or worrying over the plot while I read it... Having finished LotR I threw myself at the Hobbit, and was mightily disappointed. No Frodo!? :( And everything so relatively light and funny compared to the dire language at the end of LotR.... I was *quite* disappointed! :rolleyes:
Ditto!

Had a look at fanfiction net. The only EJW film apart from LotR that has been the subject of Fanfics is in fact "The Faculty"
Well, that's nice to know. I was a little concerned about Mikey Carver :( . Poor kid's gone through enough already. (Fanfic about him would either have to be prequels or "alternate history," but I doubt if that would stop some people.)

I'm actually kind of surprised that Barney doesn't show up anywhere--I'd think the whole "loss of memory" thing would be fertile ground, and I've always thought Elijah looks pretty good in that one, from a teenfangirl perspective...

From the very brief synopsis of each, they may roughly be divided among 3 topics:
- Follow-up of the previous film, new alien attacks and Casey to the rescue.
- Mary-Sues, mainly involving Casey.
- Slash (also, you guessed it... :D involving Casey).

And one LotR/Faculty crossover. :eek: I think it's reasonably fair to say that the Faculty fanfic derives from and owes its all to EJW and LotR. :rolleyes:
What!?! :eek: No Josh Hartnett!?! :eek: :eek: :D (or is the slash... never mind, I don't want to know :rolleyes: )

Having run across a list of Bonus Features on the theatrical version DVD this afternoon (at BestBuy--they're taking pre-orders), I started a thread about it in the Trilogy. But here's just the list:

*2 behind-the-scenes specials.
*8 featurettes originally created for lordoftherings.net.
*10-minute behind-the-scenes preview of The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King.
*Short film by Sean Astin, "The Long and Short of It," plus a behind-the-scenes featurette.
*Music video "Gollum's Song" by Emiliana Torrini.
*Preview of Electronic Arts' video game, The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King.
*An inside look at the extended 4-DVD edition coming in November.

I'm excited about seeing "The Long and Short of It," after hearing so much about it. And very relevant to this thread, since it was EJW's debut as a "first assistant director." :)

-------P.S. Tathar, today's avatar is from the time when Gandalf is telling Frodo how wonderful he (and hobbits in general) are, so Gandalf may be the one "getting away with something"--flattery can be a powerful persuader :p :D . (Not that I believe for one moment that it really had anything to do with either Frodo's or Gandalf's actions.)

What Meryl said, Maeglian. Wonderful job! Take a bow!

Our words can rush out in a flood
when we Haremites dream of our stud
but when it comes to "verbal"
there's no need to burble
just type the words "phwooar", "swoon" and "THUD!"

Back to the Faculty discussion:

Will ROTK be three hours or longer?
I swear PJ, my tush is stronger!
For four hours I’m pushin’
So pass me a cushion
And prove our fears couldn’t be wronger.

PS. Tgshaw, I love your ever-changing avatars. Love 'em.

Originally quoted by Quicksilver:

...And I am committed. Or my family think I should be anyway.

LOL! My family have much the same opinion of me!

Glad to see you ARE still with us, Shireling. I was very shy about posting here for a long time, and lurked for ages. I also do not consider myself worthy enough to participate in some of the more intellectual Faculty discussions, but that doesn't stop me joining in from time to time.:)

Ainon - Hi. I had much the same experience as you when I first read LOTR all those years ago. At first I resented the fact that dear Bilbo's role as hero had been usurped by that unknown upstart Frodo Baggins! But by the time a terrified Fro was hiding in the undergrowth with a sniffing Ringwraith crawling along the ground towards him I was hooked! I was 18 or 19 when I discovered LOTR, and would read it at work, coming home on the bus - any spare moment I had I would pick it up. In bed at night, knowing I had to be up early for work, I would think, 'I'll just read to the end of this chapter...' Invariably, of course, at the end of said chapter I would think, 'I can't wait until tomorrow to find out what happens,' and would start the next chapter. And so it went on.

Now, the films - and more especially Elijah's stunning portrayal of Frodo - have had much the same effect. I find I never tire of watching FOTR - maximum screen-time for Frodo there - and I never cease to be amazed at how brilliantly Elijah brings Frodo to life. He may be a younger Frodo, but really that just intensifies the character arc, and for me it also makes Frodo's ultimate sacrifice/destiny more poignant.

Love the limericks. (Maeg):)

Tg - I look forward with interest to the crebain and side dishes!

deluby - thanks for those links to the video clips. Lovely!

Mariole - Viggo voted best actor over EW? That was a readers' poll? Well, there is much to be admired in Viggo's Aragorn - but my vote would go to Elijah anyday!!!

And Terry Pratchett beat Tolkien. I can't comment really, as I don't read any other Sci-fi or Fantasy - only LOTR. Interestingly though, I caught a programme on TV last night on the BBC's 'The Big Read' - a poll on favourite/best-loved books here in the UK. I have already registered my vote - no prizes! The panel were discussing the 100 books that made it to the first stage - yes, it's there. When it came to OUR book they were roughly 50/50 loved or hated it. Notably, the men favoured LOTR over the women. Germaine Greer was lamenting the lack of female characters, and was generally very critical of the book and of Tolkien himself. She then went on to admit she had not even read LOTR!
:mad: :( :rolleyes:
At the end of the programme the chairman called for a vote on which book the panel thought would turn out the eventual winner - and whether they loved it or loathed it the general consensus was LOTR to win. :) It will be interesting to see if it does come out on top. The list is being whittled down to 20 (I think) in the autumn, so I'll follow its progress.

Maeglian - I share your delight about that new ' Statue' pic from
ROTK, though whether it WILL be included or not remains to be seen. Oh, the trials of wishing your life away!!! It would not be the first time we have got ourselves all worked up over spoiler pics only to have the scenes missing from the films. Though the Courageous Frodo facing down Shelob MUST MUST MUST be in! I think I might just cry if it isn't!

On that happy note...
Goodnight Faculty.:k

[Pop in]

Spoiler alert


It seems I may be the only one for whom the picture of the headless King fits EXACTLY with how I've envisioned it. I always saw the head laying on the ground as huge, between thigh and waist-high for the hobbits, while the figure of the King towered above them.

The brief glow fell upon a HUGE sitting figure, still and solemn as the great stone kings of Argonath...Upon its knees and MIGHTY chair, and all about the pedestal, were idle scrawls mixed with the foul symbols that the maggot-folk of Mordor used...(emphasis mine)

Since it is compared to the Argonath, here is it's description:
..the great pillars rose like towers to meet him. Giants they seemed to him, vast grey figures silent but threatening...Upon great pedestals founded in the deep waters stood two great kings of stone...even Boromir bowed his head as the boats whirled by, frail and fleeting as little leaves, under the enduring shadow of the sentinels of Numenor.

If anything, PJ's King is a little SMALLER than I imagined... :rolleyes:

End spoilers

There is much more I would like to comment on, and I feel badly that I can't, but I feel like Gandalf these days - forty years I've lived upon this earth, and now I have no time! Carry on, dear Faculty!

[/Pop out]

Edit: For TG, and anyone else who hasn't seen it yet, a link to "The Long and the Short of It" here (http://www.sundanceonlinefilmfestival.org/showcase01_02.html#). In these matters, I believe in instant gratification - why wait for the DVD if you can see it now?? ;)

erendis asked about the source of the three different movie lengths for ROTK. IIRC the news was posted on TORN (I check them about daily), but their search facility is pretty poor and I can't find it again. The 3 cuts are really pretty SOP, I think. PJ put all the footage he had together in a master cut that includes all the scenes (this is standard movie making). This is the bit that came out to 4:20. Then he did a shorter cut, about 3:30, perhaps as a prep for the extended edition. Then he did a 3-hour stab at what will likely be the theatre version. Howard Shore has confirmed that he's composing 4 hours worth of new music for ROTK, so everyone has their hopes up for a longer version. However, Shore is also definitely altering his score based on new footage as it comes in, so it's still too early to guess.

Narya, I also envisioned the king as you did. Big wonking statue.

from Maeglian
Read LotR first ... I just inhaled it, gobbled it up, at full speed ahead, and didn't take any time to *think* before the ship had left the Grey Havens.
Me four (I think we're up to four). I read it over my first break in college. I started page one, and spent the next three days and nights on the living room sofa totally immersed. As soon as I finished the book, I cried out in shock -- I was expecting more, and here were these darned appendices! There WAS no more -- WAHHH!! So I ended up reading the book backwards (I'll just read this scene, then the previous scene, then...) I do this with books I really love. I've been an addict ever since.

from erendis
I almost gave up during the Battle of Helm and his frickin' Deep.
:p Not me! I was a big Aragorn swooner. I loved the whole thing. LOL over your reaction, though!

Blossom, appreciate your comments re Elijah's performance in LOTR. Ditto!

For tg, re the SFX Magazine awards, all I know about it is what was posted in the TORN article: "The awards that LOTR was nominated for but didn't win were Best SF or Fantasy Actress (both Liv Tyler and Miranda Otto were nominated) and Best SF or Fantasy Author (where J.R.R. Tolkien was, rather bizarrely given the way the movies swept the awards, beaten by Terry Pratchett!)." I don't know if readers or some other body voted on the winners.

Narya, no you’re not the only one. I’d always thought of the King’s statue as big – majestic. And the while the quality of the picture is pretty ordinary (hence no view of the slow-rolling pall of cloud) look at the rays of the sun! I do love it when the details are included like that.

And what you said about ‘So much to do, so little time’. *sigh*

Count me as Number 5: I read LOTR for the first time many years ago, and I can remember spending all day, and staying up almost all night to do it over the course of a week or so. I couldn’t stop, although my level of concentration in the Man-related bits was low relative to the hobbit-bits. I’ve read it roughly every two years since then.

I’m enjoying the anticipation for ROTK – I am determined to enjoy it! In terms of spoilers, I’ve decided I can peek at the still pictures, and I’ve already read any number of articles and interviews which give away clues about what might be included. But as we get closer to the line I might think about avoiding the trailers – somehow seeing the moving image has more of a ‘spoiler’ effect for me.

Blossom, I echo, second, confirm and endorse your comments about Elijah’s portrayal of Frodo. I had the great good fortune recently to see FOTR and TTT back to back at the cinema. It was quite an amazing experience, and really served to show me that Frodo’s character arc is not as fragmented as I’d thought it was.

Maeglain, peachy, Brunhild et al – the limericks, the limericks. Gasp, Wheeze. http://www.click-smilies.de/sammlung/lachen/laughing-smiley-003.gif

Hello again, Shireling! What Blossom said. :)

Real :cool: limericks, guys! Keep it up! LOL fun, and a wonderful learning experience because before today I didn't even know what 'limericks' were!


tgshaw:
(and--heaven forbid--Kevin Costner might have gotten top billing if he'd been around for the whole movie :eek: ).

Oww, tg. That is one scary idea. I'm not sure if I'm referring to the top billing bit, or Costner being around for the whole movie. :p


mariol:
I do wish that he might have been able to bring a little coaching for a more feisty Fro to the table as a result of his reading, but it's all moot now. I think both Ian M and Sean A did a good job of sticking up for their characters as a result of their reading. Sigh.

I don't know if Elijah reading the book prior to auditioning for Frodo would be of any great benefit - because we're only assuming that the young Elijah reader would have been as smitten with Frodo as we all were! If Elijah had been more interested in other characters, or worse, if he'd been totally disinterested in LOTR after reading it ... well, I'm perfectly happy the way fate had predetermined that when it was suggested that he should play Frodo Baggins, he had enough of a rough idea of who Frodo was that he knew he'd love the challenge of the role.

Neither Ian M nor Sean A were LOTR readers prior to their involvement in the movies, and in that sense they're not unlike Elijah. That they were constantly referencing the books was their particular technique for approaching their roles, and it's a great bonus that they happened to love the books too. ;) :D I guess I'm just thinking that each actor had his own way of doing things, as he felt was best for his character for the entire course of the movie, and there've been interviews and articles where Elijah talked about what he did, and enough suggestions that while he didn't finish the book, he didn't ignore it either.

And I strongly endorse what Blossom said about Elijah's performance as Frodo too. :)


mariol:
As soon as I finished the book, I cried out in shock -- I was expecting more, and here were these darned appendices! There WAS no more -- WAHHH!! So I ended up reading the book backwards (I'll just read this scene, then the previous scene, then...) I do this with books I really love.

Oh yes! Me too! Right down to the reading the book backwards bit. LOTR really was a strange reading experience for me. I disliked it at first, then at some point got quite interested, then suddenly became absolutely obsessed. Well, selectively obsessed. :p I can't remember much from certain parts of the book - Helm's Deep was totally wiped out from my memory, along with the Gondor parts :o and although I haven't crossed Tom Bombadil's path in years, I still say it's his fault that till now, I'm more like to skip song and poetry bits in stories, than to read them! :o :p



Now to really get myself trouted ... :eek: Terry Pratchett vs. Tolkien for Best SF or Fantasty Author ... erm, yeah, I can figure Pratchett winning that one. :p

ouch! couldn't the trouts at least be gentle trouts?!

Originally posted by BLOSSOM
I was 18 or 19 when I discovered LOTR, and would read it at work, coming home on the bus - any spare moment I had I would pick it up. In bed at night, knowing I had to be up early for work, I would think, 'I'll just read to the end of this chapter...' Invariably, of course, at the end of said chapter I would think, 'I can't wait until tomorrow to find out what happens,' and would start the next chapter. And so it went on.
:D ...and on, and on, and on. :D I got a "talking to" at one job because I was spending too much time on my breaks. Guess what I was doing :D . And this was after ten years and umpteen readings!

Now, the films - and more especially Elijah's stunning portrayal of Frodo - have had much the same effect. I find I never tire of watching FOTR - maximum screen-time for Frodo there - and I never cease to be amazed at how brilliantly Elijah brings Frodo to life.
There's a discussion going on about this in the TTT forum at the moment--whether FotR is more "addictive" than TTT and why. It certainly has been for me!

And Terry Pratchett beat Tolkien. I can't comment really, as I don't read any other Sci-fi or Fantasy - only LOTR. Interestingly though, I caught a programme on TV last night on the BBC's 'The Big Read' - a poll on favourite/best-loved books here in the UK. I have already registered my vote - no prizes! The panel were discussing the 100 books that made it to the first stage - yes, it's there. When it came to OUR book they were roughly 50/50 loved or hated it. Notably, the men favoured LOTR over the women. Germaine Greer was lamenting the lack of female characters, and was generally very critical of the book and of Tolkien himself. She then went on to admit she had not even read LOTR!
:mad: :( :rolleyes:
Do you get the feeling the anti-LotR bunch are going to keep having these votes until they "win" one :rolleyes: (would they consider LotR coming in second a victory)? Between the US and the UK, LotR's already won several "favorite book" votes, and was voted book of the century (which really got Ms. Greer in a dither--the downfall of civilization, or somesuch).

BTW, IIRC, some UK posters have mentioned Terry Pratchett showing up on the anti-Tolkien side of that debate, too. Based on the relatively little of his work that I've read, he's developed a recognizable and fairly complex world and is good at what he does, which is basically intelligent, somewhat cynical humor, played out in his fantasy world but really commenting on ours. Besides the people who especially love humor, my guess is that some people would prefer him to Tolkien because they'd see him as more "relevant," since it's usually pretty clear what he's poking fun at--very different from Tolkien's approach of allowing each reader to apply the story to life in a unique way. Pratchett certainly beats JRRT in quantity of books :eek: , but in quality... IMVHO, Pratchett doesn't come any closer to Tolkien than a dozen other fantasy writers do.

Edit regarding ainon's simulpost: If you're saying you can see how Pratchett could win the vote, I'd agree, based on the people who prefer him to Tolkien for the reasons I mentioned--or others that I'm not aware of. If you're saying you can see how Pratchett could deserve to win :eek: ... do you prefer your trout with dill sauce or almondine :D ?

Another edit: Regarding whether it would have helped if Elijah had read the book--IMVHO, I don't think it would have. He did say he and Sean discussed the way the characters were portrayed in the book. And IMHO, Elijah's just starting to grow out of the tendency to be director-dependent, so even if he'd had other ideas about how Frodo should have been approached I don't know that he would have voiced them.

But the main reason I'm not upset about his nonreading is that it's really parallel to the way a lot of actors approach a part. [Suspension of disbelief ahead... Brunhild can stop reading now ;) .] From the beginning of the movie project--when Tolkienite angst was at a frenzied pitch--I've been saying these movies are more like historical movies than ones adapted from literature, because of the reality of Tolkien's characters and cosmos. This isn't an adaptation of a book we've read, but a film about events we've been present at, involving people we know and love. So we really want it done right! But along the same line, many actors who play real people purposely don't meet the person they're portraying before they play the part, because they're afraid it would keep them from fully interpreting the character--that is, they'd feel constricted, or even limited, in what they felt they could or couldn't do. Meryl Streep made that comment this year about the person she played in Adaptation. So, if we consider book-Frodo the equivalent of a "real person," Elijah approached the role in a quite normal way.


-------------

I'm another who thought of the "headless king" statue as big. In fact, when the pic of Frodo sleeping on the head of the Amon Hen statue came out (before FotR was released), I thought it was from that scene--and tried to find yellow flowers growing on it :) .

From Estella Rose
It was quite an amazing experience, and really served to show me that Frodo’s character arc is not as fragmented as I’d thought it was.
Thanks for that comment, Estella--it kind of makes me more hopeful for RotK.

And, Narya, thanks for the link to "The Long and Short of It" :) !

by Estella
I’d always thought of the King’s statue as big – majestic.

Me too. In an Ozymandias fashion, but in a good way.

Terry Pratchett - yes, he's fabulously witty, clever and productive. And has a lot more feisty female characters. :) But Tolkien is the grandpapa of fantasy fiction and Germaine Greer needs to get over it. Although I've not read of Pratchett's feelings towards Tolkien, I'm sure he would acknowledge the debt fantasy writers owe him.

I won't trout you Ainon, I'm a sucker for flattery. :)

When our Gandalf was facing the worst
From the Balrog, another voice cursed;
I’M IN THE WRONG BOOK
AND IT’S AWFULLY CROOK
‘CAUSE THAT BASTARD HAS GOT TO HIM FIRST.

*
*
Spoilery speculation for RotK
*
*


The reason I went so jumping-for-joy happy over that blurry spoiler picture of Frodo and Sam at the foot of the statue, was that it came so very close to how I had imagined that scene, too. The monumental statue, still majestic despite having been defiled. The small hobbits looking at it with respect and awe, the slanting sunlight that will slip through foliage and cracks in the stone to illuminate the statue's head on the ground. (Happy sigh)

The only thing that surprised me was that not all of the head has been broken off.

I can't help speculating, of course: Everyone expects PJ to start RotK with an enormous bang, some scene of violent impact. What if he starts the film quietly, with Frodo and Sam and the statue of the old king instead? The broken king that unexpectedly has received a beautiful crown, and the "They cannot conquer forever!" line....... that would be *such* a poignant small ray of hope and perfect symbolism before all the battles and tragedies and despair of the movie to come . :)



*
*
*
End speculation based on spoilers


Still on that note, though, here's the *slightly* ironic

"Waiting for RotK is fun!" limerick:

Summer months; - now it's time to relax!
Take time off, enjoy life to the max!
With no worry about
how That Film will turn out....
yet it still leads to panic attacks! :D :rolleyes:


Peachy - LOL!

Lovely ROTK speculations, Maeg.

from Peachy
But Tolkien is the grandpapa of fantasy fiction and Germaine Greer needs to get over it.
But of course! :D Even so, Tolkien's work has always been controversial, with staunch supporters and *many* detractors. I've never read Terry Pratchett's work either, but he does appear to take a swipe at Tolkien after winning the Carnegie Medal for children's lit. It's in this article:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2002/07/13/nprat13.xml

It's a news report so I take the "swiping" with a grain of salt. Perhaps someone who's more familiar with Pratchett can comment more intelligently.

from estella rose
Blossom, I echo, second, confirm and endorse your comments about Elijah’s portrayal of Frodo.
I'd like to do the same with ainon and tg's follow-up posts. Regarding Elijah not reading the book (or finishing it anyway) while he was filming, I have had a private speculation about this. It was based on the following PJ interview:

Peter Jackson on KRON-4 Morning News in San Francisco:

Q: Who was your guiding light? Who propped you up on those days you were like, 'J-- C--, this is a mountain I'm climbing'?

PJ: Well, my partner Fran Walsh, who's one of the producers on the film, and co-wrote the script, she was wonderful. And the actors actually were incredibly supportive -- like Elijah, who was filming virtually every day for eighteen months, he was on camera a lot, and Elijah's just so bubbly and he's so optimistic and he's such a great guy, I never heard one negative word from Elijah the whole time. And often on the days that I'd turn up being being really tired, thinking, oh my god, am I going to be able to get through the day? the first person I'd see is Elijah, saying, 'Okay, Peter, great, let's go!' and he would immediately buoy you back up.
I think this is a charming anecdote and glimpse into Elijah's working process. I'm imagining PJ during filming, walking around constantly having to absorb ideas, requests for changes, etc etc from everyone in the production including much of the cast. Then he goes to work with Elijah and it's kind of like, ah, relax -- I won't have to battle him over how Frodo is supposed to be this way or that way, but simply get him to understand how *I* want Frodo portrayed in this particular scene. There's a workplace dynamic that in ways mimics a family dynamic -- you've got the rebels and the caregivers and the peacemakers. I see Elijah as a peacemaker. It was probably a pleasure for him to come in and support PJ through this monumental task and just help him create the best movie he could. Plus, if he was exhausted much of the time (as he certainly would have been with those hours), he would have had his hands (and brain) as full as he cared to have them.

So that's my intrusive little projection into Elijah's working process. Taking into account his youth and exhaustion, I think it's wonderful that he made himself so pleasant to work with. I still harbor just a tiny bit of regret for the parts of Frodo that I would like to have seen more realized in the film, although reading the book is no guarantee that they would have been. I'm pretty sure that Viggo devoured the books during his frantic preparation, yet Aragorn's character arc in the movies is significantly different from the book. Viggo would have had to consciously set aside Book!Aragorn in order to play PJ's implementation of him.

ainon, I love it that you also read books backwards! You're the first person I've heard of who also does it. :p

mariol--Lovely quote from PJ, and one I hadn't read before. It says so much about Elijah, and reinforces what his fellow actors on the movies have said about him. And your comments on it make perfect sense to me. Thanks. :)

Also, yes, I remember that Viggo hadn't read LotR before taking the part but did read it before he got to New Zealand. He had been quite familiar with Norse legends, and he said he saw much similarity between them and LotR. But I'd think those would be even farther from movie-Aragorn than Tolkien's vision was!

IIRC, the strongest and longest Tolkien follower in the cast was Christopher Lee. And IMHO, his character is as different from the original as most of the other characters are.

Originally posted by mariol3b3
Even so, Tolkien's work has always been controversial, with staunch supporters and *many* detractors. I've never read Terry Pratchett's work either, but he does appear to take a swipe at Tolkien after winning the Carnegie Medal for children's lit...
I've heard it said that every fantasy written since LotR has been a reaction to it--either for or against. I'm sure there are exceptions that prove the rule, but I think it's generally a fair statement. Even authors who've never read LotR have almost certainly read books by other authors who were affected by it. And Tolkien not only wrote fantasy fiction; he also provided many of the concepts and terminology that are still used to talk about it.

I've never read any of Pratchett's children's books, only Discworld stuff, so I'm not familiar with the one he was awarded the Carnegie Medal for, but his comments on Tolkien are like many I've heard before. The use of the word "fairies" was interesting in two ways--both that Pratchett would use it when referring to Tolkien's fiction, and that the reporter seems to have enough knowledge of Middle-earth to put it in quotations marks (since it's a term Tolkien didn't use for his Elves--in early versions of the Sil he called them Gnomes).

As I read those comments from Pratchett, a few things started falling into place regarding "both sides" of the debate about JRRT's writing. I'll have to think about it some more, and it'll probably have to come out in a full-blown essay, but I'm beginning to suspect that different people find different kinds of things "relevant" to their world and life. Which is more relevant to real life--talking rats (Pratchett's book) or Frodo Baggins? Pratchett's straightforward in saying that his rats have more to say about life in the real world--which is probably why he wrote about them. Tolkien obviously felt differently. I'm guessing their followers would answer the question differently, too.

Not that you have to hate one if you love the other--I enjoy Pratchett's writing. But it hasn't given a foundation to my life the way JRRT has, both as an author and as a person. And I think this has to do with the way I approach life and reality--but I do need to think about the whole thing some more. And before I go much further, I probably need to read that book about talking rats...

Mariol, that's a lovely quote! Do you happen to have the whole interview transcribed? I think that quote is made more significant by what Fran (or was it Philippa) had said near the end of the Director's Commentary, about how Elijah had told them that he drew strength from PJ, because if PJ could keep going then so could he. It is wonderful to think that they were giving support to each other, essentially.

I don't know about us assuming Elijah not doing battle with PJ - just because Elijah never said so doesn't mean that he didn't; from PJ's POV, Elijah's probably nice enough to ask politely rather than throw a fit if he wished for something. ;) By all accounts PJ seems to be a director who encourages input from his actors, and accomodates actors when their suggestions make sense, or when the actor feels he knows what's best for his characters. And I think we can glean from various interviews that Elijah and PJ & co took full advantage of such a flexible relationship. Off-hand I can remember Elijah explaining the 'playing with the Ring under the table' bit in the Prancing Pony was an idea that came from early pre-filming discussions, and that his facial expressions during the Ringtrance moments were carefully planned.

What I think is that Elijah understood that while Frodo is the hero, he's also just one of an ensemble of actors, all working together to bring a magnificent tale to life on the large screen. He gives as generously as he takes, each and every time he interacts with all the actors with whom he shares the screen. He doesn't demand that all the choicest camera angles be on him, and that all the best lines must be reserved for him, or that all other heroic acts never surpass his. This is a lead actor who spends many significant scenes without saying a word - there's that incredible whole stretch in FotR where he says absolutely nothing and 'merely' reacts to those around him. That's very brave for an actor, IMHO, for a lesser actor might fear that if he weren't saying anything, then the audience wouldn't get what he's doing. :p Likewise it's very brave for a director to trust that his leads (I'm pairing Elijah and Viggo together here, because Viggo is as generous an actor as Elijah, IMO) are capable of carrying three whole movies without exhibiting any grand gestures or displaying scene-stealing/hogging tendencies. ;)

:eek: That went on a little longer than it should have. :rolleyes: Sorry. But before I run off, some quick replies ...


ainon, I love it that you also read books backwards! You're the first person I've heard of who also does it.

What? I didn't know that it wasn't common practice! LOL. Very, very few books get that treatment from me though. 'Watership Down' was probably the only other book I did that with, that I can remember anyway. :)


Peachy - another LOL limerick! But may I ask what's Ozymandias? I know the statue's supposed to be BIG. I don't know why I imagined it small. :o Not that that surprises you folks. :p


And yes, tg, those reasons you gave re: Pratchett were what I would have stated too. I'm not seeking trouts at all, oh no, but what's almondine and why dill a sauce? I skipped lunch, and I'd like to know if I should be feeling extra hungry at the sound of those. ;) As for the Pratchett quote -- that's not exactly taking a swipe at Tolkien, is it? Like tg said, it's a fair statement, but then that wouldn't have made a good headline. :p






SPOILER REMARKS (to end of post)




Maeg- ditto on those speculations! Although what clues have there been that RotK will start with an enormous bang? Each movie has so far begun with Frodo - the theatrical version of FotR really got into the story when we see Frodo reading under that tree, and technically TTT began with Frodo's dream - and ended with Frodo embarking on the next stage of his journey. I'd guess PJ ain't gonna break that mould.






END SPOILER REMARKS

Re Ozymandias - I'm sorry Ainon, I should have clarified my reference. I meant Percy Shelley's poem:

I met a traveller from an antique land,
Who said, "Two vast and trunkless legs of stone
Stand in the desert. Near them, on the sand,
Half sunk, a shattered visage lies, whose frown,
And wrinkled lip, and sneer of cold command,
Tell that its sculptor well those passions read,
Which yet survive, stamped on these lifeless things,
The hand that mocked them and the heart that fed:
And on the pedestal these words appear:
"My name is OZYMANDIAS, King of Kings.
Look on my works ye Mighty, and despair!"
No thing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare,
The lone and level sands stretch far away.

A tale of a lost empire and human egotism, in short. Which is almost the opposite of the beautiful scene with "they cannot conquer for ever!"

I very much liked your comments about the ensemble cast. So true. :)

I don't think that Elijah would win a fight for BookFrodo, even if he had read the book and loved it.* MovieFrodo is internally consistent. And, (IMO -- trout me), if you accept PJ's interpretation of a New and Improved Ring(TM) (now with Faster. Acting. Evil!), and the concomitant More Powerful Ringwraiths, MovieFrodo isn't that far off from BookFrodo.** Elijah would have a far tougher fight against PJ than, say Sean Astin. BookSam translates well enough to screen that a little tweaking away from comic relief (:rolleyes: ) would not change any of Fran/Phillipa's main themes, and would therefore be acceptable to PJ. But for Elijah to convince PJ away from his precious New and Improved Ring(TM)? With Faster. Acting. Evil!? Eiljah would be fighting a long defeat.

Re: Book of the century: The Washington Post once printed a very long article on Atlas Shrugged (was it because Ayn Rand died??), but interestingly, there was a small inset of the "five most influential books of all time," apparently a poll from somewhere. The Bible was #1, Atlas Shrugged was #3, LotR was #4 or 5, I think 1984 was in there, don't remember the last one (and I can't find the article :(). Originally posted by tgshaw
and was voted book of the century (which really got Germaine Greer in a dither--the downfall of civilization, or somesuch). There are two things I would like to say about this: Why should I trust any woman with a man's first name? And the same name as one of the Jackson Offspring! Extra demerits! :D If Germaine Greer would spend less time bitching about the lack strong female roles she gets paid for this? :rolleyes:, and more time encouraging young girls to look up to and emulate whomever the hell they pleased rather than limiting them to "women only," the world would be a far less noisy place. Yeesh.

-----------
*In fact, my opinion is that Elijah is not as into the actual book as the other actors were. He more often than not stresses the friendship and comraderie on the two-year shoot. (EW fans have compared his experience to going off to college.) In that vein I think it not unlikely that Elijah would have gotten the same friendship and experience out of any long shoot, The Matrices perhaps. I wonder if he realizes that it was the spirit of the books themselves that created the comraderie that he basked in so joyfully.
**It seems that Feisty Fro disappears only in the face of the Ring or the Ringwraiths. btw, ditto for "evil" Faramir. One of my main complaints about TTT is that there was not enough "uninfluenced" Faramir. I wonder how much Wenham fought...

erendis---Ditto to all you said about movie-Frodo and the New Improved Ring :p . IMHO, two decisions that had a huge impact on the films were to have a younger Frodo and to make the Ring more powerful and active. Once those decisions were made, the ripples went throughout the entire story. So, IMO you're exactly right in saying the entire script would have had to be reworked if any significant changes were made to movie-Frodo.

Originally posted by erendis
If Germaine Greer would spend less time bitching about the lack strong female roles she gets paid for this? , and more time encouraging young girls to look up to and emulate whomever the hell they pleased rather than limiting them to "women only," the world would be a far less noisy place. Yeesh.
She was one of the pioneers of the 1960s-1970s women's movement; I do respect her for blazing that trail when it was extremely difficult (of course, I was around in those days, so I still think of her that way), although I probably disagree with her on a good 50% of her views. She started--and, as far as I know--still edits Ms. Magazine. She's also written some best-selling feminist books (she does make clear in the books that her ideas of feminist goals have changed over time as social conditions have changed, which I give her credit for). So, yeah, she's probably well-known enough to get paid for being on panel discussions. From what I've seen, she seems to do that much more in the UK than in the US; maybe she gets called when there are panels involving Tolkien (which we don't have too many of in the US :rolleyes: )?

Why such a usually intelligent woman would spend so much energy bashing a book she's never read is something of a puzzle--unless that's become her main source of public exposure :confused: . She is what some of my friends would call the victim of a "BE" ("bad experience"), which is defined as what happens when your first contact with a certain group of people is, well, bad--so negative, in fact, that you don't check any further to see if the people you've met are representative of the group or just happened to be particular members you didn't like! Ms. Greer's idea of Tolkien readers is the college girls she met in the 1960s who (as close to her direct quote as my memory will take me) "clutched teddy bears and talked about hobbits." I wish that before talking about LotR again in public--if she really doesn't want to read the book--she'd read some of the serious scholarly work that's been written on it, so she can see it goes a bit beyond teddy bears :rolleyes: . As has been said, she really does need to "get over it." We've all got scars from the 60's, but it doesn't help to keep picking at the wounds.

Originally posted by ainon
What I think is that Elijah understood that while Frodo is the hero, he's also just one of an ensemble of actors, all working together to bring a magnificent tale to life on the large screen. He gives as generously as he takes, each and every time he interacts with all the actors with whom he shares the screen... This is a lead actor who spends many significant scenes without saying a word - there's that incredible whole stretch in FotR where he says absolutely nothing and 'merely' reacts to those around him. That's very brave for an actor, IMHO, for a lesser actor might fear that if he weren't saying anything, then the audience wouldn't get what he's doing. :p Likewise it's very brave for a director to trust that his leads (I'm pairing Elijah and Viggo together here, because Viggo is as generous an actor as Elijah, IMO) are capable of carrying three whole movies without exhibiting any grand gestures or displaying scene-stealing/hogging tendencies. ;)
Can I just agree with all of that? :) Beautifully said, and IMHO shows again how perceptive PJ was when choosing his cast.

And yes, tg, those reasons you gave re: Pratchett were what I would have stated too. I'm not seeking trouts at all, oh no, but what's almondine and why dill a sauce? I skipped lunch, and I'd like to know if I should be feeling extra hungry at the sound of those. ;)
Mmmm... I've had trout almondine made with a fresh Rocky Mountain trout and can say you're certainly allowed to feel hungry at that (although by the time you read this, you'll probably have eaten :p ). A whole trout smothered in sliced almonds (you do have almonds there, don't you?) and then baked until just crispy. OTOH, the dill sauce was a bit of a stretch (I was just trying to find an alternative :rolleyes: ); I've never tried it on trout, but I've had it on salmon and it was lovely. Slightly creamy sauce flavored with dill weed (the leaves of the herb whose seeds are used to make dill pickles--a much lighter touch than the pickles get!). It's probably significant that I've never cooked either of those delights, but just had them made by other people--who knew what they were doing :p :) .
As for the Pratchett quote -- that's not exactly taking a swipe at Tolkien, is it? Like tg said, it's a fair statement, but then that wouldn't have made a good headline. :p
Hmmm... Well, I didn't much like him summarizing LotR as "destroying evil by tossing a piece of expensive jewelry into a volcano" (although I've certainly heard that description before). And, as many people would, Pratchett slants things the way he wants to. Referring to Tolkien's characters as "fairies," IMHO, is a way to enhance their insignificance and lack of reality--I'm assuming he's talking about the Elves there. And using the phrase "destroying evil" when describing LotR, then comparing it to his own book in which evil is "defused," is inaccurate--and I'm not going to put "IMO" on that statement, as it's made very clear that evil isn't destroyed when the Ring is.

But the quote certainly shows that Pratchett knows how to use words to subtly shift meanings, which is part of being a good writer :) . I'm sure I could find some even stronger examples from Tolkien without searching too hard ;) .

ainon and Peachy, thank you for helping to point out how the use of the broken and ruined statue in "Journey to the crossroads" manages to convey the exact opposite message than that of frequently used similar imagery! By means of a ray of sunlight and a flowering plant, Tolkien turns a broken statue into a symbol of hope for the future, the possibility of a new start, building on the best from the past. Especially wonderful that it is the two small humble hobbits, carrying with them the hope and fear of all Middle Earth, that see this vision.

Imagery of broken statues, ruined palaces and deserted cities is quite often used in literature and poetry, I believe, carrying a rather more sad and depressive message than Tolkien's: Nothing lasts, beauty fades, splendour ends, all is vain....etc.

In addition to Ozymandias, a few other examples off the top of my head. Some of them even uses a sunbeam or flowers to the opposite effect of Tolkien, too: J. Dyer, from "Grongar Hill", describing a ruined and ivy-decked castle on top of a hill:

Yet time has seen, that lifts the low,
and level lays the lofty brow,
has seen this broken pile compleat,
big with the vanity of state;
But transient is the smile of fate!
A little rule, little sway,
a sun-beam in a winter's day
is all the proud and mighty have
between the cradle and the grave.
Kipling, from "Cities and thrones and powers":

Cities and thrones and powers
stand in time's eye
almost as long as flowers
which daily die...
And a more recent version: Sting, from the lyrics of "Mad about you":They say a city in the desert lies
The vanity of an ancient king
But the city lies in broken pieces
Where the wind howls and the vultures sing
These are the works of man
This is the sum of our ambition....
(The last sounds just like Elrond on one of his grumpier days! :D )

Isn't it wonderful how Tolkien by simple means turned that scene with a broken statue into a message of hope instead? :)


I have unfortunately read neither Greer nor Pratchett (I have one of Greer's books, but haven't managed to read it yet) so I haven't got much to say, but all the more am I reading the posts about them!


ainon, re the RotK opening sccene, well; - I've been reading the speculation on other sites such as CoE and TORn. There seems to be a majority belief that the film will start with a bang. (They site the Last Alliance battle and Gandalf's fight with the balrog as indicators for this.) I hope they're wrong, since I now know what *my* favourite opening scene would be! :) And to finally turn this post on topic: That favourite opening scene would involve EJW's expressive acting, as Frodo discovers and reacts to the message in a statue, a sunbeam and a flower!


Mariole and ainon: Thank you for the quotes and opinions on EJW's contribution to the filming and the teamwork. Wonderful reading and perceptive views! :)

After a very busy couple of days, I finally got a chance to check in on the Faculty and have already been delighted, amazed, amused and informed. Big :k for erudite Faculty Members!

LOVE the limericks, Maeg, Peachy and all other poets!

The speculation on the opening of RoTK is making my heart beat faster. T'would be lovely to have the film open as Maeglin describes. And the parallelism would be terrific. I *do* think PJ is trying to craft these films with echoes and parallels that add meaning and depth to the experience.

I am totally convinced by erendis' analysis of how movie Frodo evolved differently from book Frodo. And even had EW been a Tolkien scholar, I don't think he would (or could) have contradicted PJ/FW/PB's vision. His character is at the core of their film (despite the three Arwen spoiler photos!) and their notion of Frodo must cohere across all three movies. Like most other folks, I lament the absence of Feisty Fro (and a more developed characterization of Faramir) but Wood's Frodo almost (remember I said "almost" :p ) makes me forget book Frodo.

BTW, that was a wonderful quote from PJ regarding Elwood's contribution to the set, Mariol. Thank you. ainon, I agree with you that EW seems to be a team player. (and may I come visit when you are having trout almondine? mmm... )

erendis, You are soo right!
I wonder if he realizes that it was the spirit of the books themselves that created the comraderie that he basked in so joyfully.


Oh and just a small clarification. Germaine Greer is Australian. Made a big splash in 60's/70's doing pioneering work on feminist issues. Don't think she had anything to do with Ms. Magazine, except perhaps for writing a piece or two. (And I don't think she gave herself the name either! :D ) What we must remember is that times have not always been as good for women as they are (in western countries, anyway) now. Greer helped fight the good fight. I take the quote tg remembers as a spur to 60's and 70's women to take charge of their lives. But there is a dig at fantasy, too.

ainon, sorry, I don't have the text of the whole PJ interview. I saved this quote off the net because it spoke to me. Lovely reply about the generosity of the actors on the set.

Here's one of my favorites to add to Maeglian's list. The commentary is from a dinner (no speaker credited, I just copied it off the internet in my search):

... a poem concerning the human spirit's unwillingness to accept limits in the quest to do the impossible - or nearly impossible. ... whatever the challenge, it will be met and overcome.
Robert Frost "There are Roughly Zones"

We sit indoors and talk of the cold outside.
And every gust that gathers strength and heaves
Is a threat to the house. But the house has long been tried.
We think of the tree. If it never again has leaves,
We'll know, we say, that this was the night it died.
It is very far north, we admit, to have brought the peach.
What comes over a man, is it soul or mind -
That to no limits and bounds he can stay confined?
You would say his ambition was to extend the reach
Clear to the Arctic of every living kind.
Why is his nature forever so hard to teach
That though there is no fixed line between wrong and right,
There are roughly zones whose laws must be obeyed?
There is nothing much we can do for the tree tonight,
But we can't help feeling more than a little betrayed
That the northwest wind should rise to such a height
Just when the cold went down so many below.
The tree has no leaves and may never have them again.
We must wait till some months hence in the spring to know.
But if it is destined never again to grow,
It can blame this limitless trait in the hearts of men.

Posted by Erendis:
I wonder if he realizes that it was the spirit of the books themselves that created the comraderie that he basked in so joyfully.

Since he hasn't read the books, I'd suspect he doesn't realize this on an intellectual level, but I think he's very aware of it on an emotional or instinctive level. Elijah Wood strikes me as being very perceptive; from things I've heard him say on interviews, he seems to understand that he was part of something extraordinary---more so than just any long, involved film shoot (such as the Matrices or Star Wars) would have been.

I like to imagine that we would have gotten a more book-true Frodo if Elijah had read the books and been as staunch a supporter of his character as Sean Astin had been of Sam. However, I don't think that would have happened, even if Elijah had read these books every year since his childhood. Elevensies pointed out a long time ago that Elijah is "a director's actor," meaning he'll comfortably accept his director's vision of the character without a fuss, and mold his performance to that vision. I think he was also very aware of the fact that he was the youngest actor in the cast (although arguably the one with the most film experience!), and also that he might have considered himself outrageously lucky to have landed this role. Given these factors, even if Elijah had been at odds with PJ's depiction of Frodo, I think he would have done his best to be cooperative and to work within the bounds that his director had established.

Having also had the opportunity to watch FoTR and TTT back to back, the depiction of Frodo's character arc is very consistent from one film to the next. And, to Elijah's credit, the viewer gains a real sense of the change in Frodo from even the subtlest of cues such as body language and facial expressions.

Of course, a little more time spent on Frodo's character in TTT would still have been helpful, but I've already bewailed the painfully unsatisfying 28% Frodo Content situation in the Movies Forum! :p

I am really enjoying all of this moody poetry!

Edit: A brief word about Germaine Greer. I know nothing about her, but the scorn of intelligent women for Tolkien's work is no new thing. I think (????) it is Ursula K. LeGuin who has also criticized his work, for its lack of both female presence and sexuality. I'd assume LeGuin has read the books; it's a little disappointing to think an intelligent, educated woman like Greer would publicly blast something she did not have first-hand experience with. And even if she had, and still felt that way, I always wonder, what is wrong with just a good story? Does everything have to have some heavy-handed (and, of course, politically correct) 'message,' in order to have value?

Originally posted by peaceweaver
...Don't think she had anything to do with Ms. Magazine, except perhaps for writing a piece or two.
Ooops... :o :o Methinks my long-term memory infected Ms. Greer with a bit of Gloria Steinem. :o But I'm sure the teddy bear quote was from Greer.

What we must remember is that times have not always been as good for women as they are (in western countries, anyway) now. Greer helped fight the good fight. I take the quote tg remembers as a spur to 60's and 70's women to take charge of their lives. But there is a dig at fantasy, too.
It seems the Tolkien readers she met then were young women whom she considered childish and out-of-touch with the real world. And, of course, she wouldn't want women choosing to be that way. Although the "teddy bear" quote I read was referring to women she'd met in the 1960s, the quote itself was fairly recent--I'm pretty sure it was part of her response to LotR being voted book of the century. The context was along the lines of (not precise, I'm sure), "I've been afraid something like this would happen ever since I met..."

And I've never seen a report of her saying anything about fantasy in general--just Tolkien. Mostly because of the lack of female characters. I disagree with her on that, but peaceweaver's point about remembering how things used to be speaks a bit to it, I think. erendis is absolutely right in saying that girls should be encouraged to follow any positive role model, male or female--but, when there are virtually no heroic female role models (which was the situation when Ms. Greer met her "Tolkien fans"), IMHO it can color what girls think society expects of them. Nowadays, a girl can find such a variety of female heroes to look up to that IMVHO it doesn't matter so much anymore if she reads some books where just about everyone's male. So, IMVVHO, the "getting over it" Greer needs to do is to notice that the needs have changed over the last 40 years--thank goodness!!--and simply reading The Hobbit or LotR isn't likely to make a girl of today think she's not supposed to play an active part in life simply because she's female.

From Elda
I've heard him say on interviews, he seems to understand that he was part of something extraordinary---more so than just any long, involved film shoot (such as the Matrices or Star Wars) would have been.
First of all, as a copy editor, may I swoon over your grammar, Elda? The Matrices--Ahhhh!! :) :)

Besides the special relationships that developed among the cast members, Elijah also seems to realize the importance of LotR as a literary work. Some months after the primary filming was over, he mentioned in an interview that no one had had the [guts--his word was a bit more colorful] to send him another fantasy script. He said he'd been in the best fantasy story there's ever been, so why would he take a part in a lesser one? (Reminded me of why a lot of people read no or very little fantasy besides Tolkien :) .) I'm wondering if one of the things Elijah will do after all the shooting and reshooting is over is read the entire book--if he has been purposely avoiding it since taking the role, which I think is a possibility.

It's interesting, though, that several of his recent role choices have been "imaginative fiction," although not clear-cut fantasy. I'd put Chain of Fools in that category because of how surreal and nonlinear it is, Try Seventeen because of his character playing things out in his imagination, and TESOTSM for obvious reasons. They all play with the mind in one way or another; since I love that kind of movie, I'm very happy about that :) .

Originally posted by Eldalieva
Does everything have to have some heavy-handed (and, of course, politically correct) 'message,' in order to have value?

Let me introduce you to a Canadian writer, Margaret Atwood, whose work I detest with a total and complete passion. She is taught in nearly every first year Uni English class, and every Canadian lit class, and I have yet to meet a single person in the whole world who actually LIKES her writing (rather than liking The Idea of her writing). Every book has a Message. The writing is subservient to the Message. She is, of course, enormously politically correct in a very heavy-handed way, and celebrated in literary circles. :rolleyes: . She is the only writer whose book-burnings I would consider attending, as it would be a mercy for generations to come. :D

As for PJ's Frodo, I've already written at length in the Movie Forum about why I don't find him so far from Book!Frodo as many perceive him to be. Though younger and less experienced, I find Elijah's Frodo captures much of the essence of Book!Frodo struggling with the burden of the ring. As others have pointed out, Elijah had very little free time during the long and exhausting shoot, and I've long ago forgiven him for not managing to read the book during that time frame. After all, who knows if he would have 'read' Book!Frodo the way Frodo's true admirer's do? He may not have been pushing for 'our' vision of Frodo even if he had read the books (assuming that even we could all agree what that 'should' be. :D )

I actually don't want to see the fallen king as the opening sequence of RotK. I think it would have much more impact about a quarter of the way through, as the struggle intensifies. I want to see the battle heat up for men, and Frodo and Sam struggling further on their journey, and Merry and Pippin face danger and decisions, so that the outcome is all in doubt, and there is a real sense that evil might prevail. THEN I want to see this scene, so that it conveys what it did in the book - that ray of hope, that sense that even if THEY don't succeed, evil cannot hold sway forever.

Edit: tg posted while I was writing this, and I just want to say - it didn't matter to me one hoot that there were not major female characters in LotR. When I first read it at 13, Eowyn absolutely blew me away, and her small part in the book gave me far more hope and strength that I COULD, in fact, overcome the significant obstacles in my life and be who I wanted to be than any number of female role models in the politically correct books. Both her despair and her bravery spoke to me - I can't think of a single other female in a book who provided me with more strength to get through my teen years.

And I didn't want her to be a bigger part of the story - she didn't need to be the big hero for me to relate to her. In fact, it was precisely because she played the crucial part she did, without theatrics and without the need to be the center of attention, that made her matter to me so much.

Way off topic!

I've only read one Margaret Atwood novel, and that was Cat's Eye. I'll admit that it fell apart somewhat when the heroine/narrator embarked upon her adult life, but the descriptions of childhood, and in particular, of the dynamics between little girls, were some of the most terrifyingly accurate I've ever read. Much of the first part of the book can be well summed up with this one line (IIRC): "Little girls are only small and adorable to adults. To each other, they are life-sized." Brrr.

TG: I copped the "Matrices" from Erendis, so props go to her...although I DID know that's the plural form of "matrix." Well, I DID!! :o :D

Well, it is remotely on topic, as long as we keep following the Elijah - Frodo - Tolkien - not many women - feminist views linkages! :D

'Cat's Eye' and 'The Handmaids Tale' are both moderately bearable, as long as you can handle The Message - it's not that Atwood can't write, it's just that Purpose always seems to drive the story, rather than Purpose being the RESULT of the story (if that makes any sense). Try 'Surfacing' sometime, when you're feeling resilient. It's the only novel I've ever read where I actually thought I was going to throw up while I was reading it, and not because it was gory or anything. It was just really really really yucky, on a multitude of levels.

Which brings me back again to Tolkien's mastery, and PJ's rather palatable interpretation, and Elijah's contribution to that - the Message flows in and around and through Tolkien's story so seamlessly that you never felt hit over the head with it. I find this fairly true in the movie as well (though there are definitely message moments, but they are character driven) until the UN speech, which is I think why it has been so poorly received - the weaving comes undone, and it stands stark and alone, apart from the story. It wouldn't have taken a big change there to let Elijah show us Frodo hurting and doubting, and Sam helping him to reclaim his hope and drive to carry on, so that the tapestry of the story remained intact.

See? I managed to mention Elijah twice! :D ;)

I didn't mean it about the Matrices, honest! The Harem was having breakfast in Vermont and I was gaily chatting away about Oscar competition for RotK when --

Mel Headstrong: You know you're a scientist when you refer to the Matrix movies as the Matrices.
Erendis [covers face with hands]: oh my god, did I just say The Matrices? Oh no...oh god...what a geek I am...:o

Speaking of Elevensies, anyone seen our Fearless Mod? YOO--HOOOOOO!

Originally posted by Eldalieva
what is wrong with just a good story? Does everything have to have some heavy-handed (and, of course, politically correct) 'message,' in order to have value? Of course it does!!! How d'you think we got bloody United Nations Sam??? :p :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[EDIT -- dang, Narya, you got there before me. ]

When I read TTT and RotK, I liked Eowyn yeah, but mostly I was blown away by Faramir and wanted to be like him. Did I care that I was "supposed" to be searching for some strong female character to look up to? HELL NO!

***RotK spoiler rumor and speculation to end of post***
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Concerning the statue shot, there is an **unsubstantiated** rumor that PJ will do a scene segue from Frodo saying "There will be a King again!" straight to Aragorn staring at a gen-u-ine Anduril. (much like the way PJ cuts from "there is one that can claim the throne of Gondor/he has chosen exile" straight to Aragorn's eyes.) Now editing techniques like that are ubercool, but are tricky to execute because you have to do set-up for the segue. IMO the editing would have to play something like this:
1. Somebody gets Anduril to Aragorn, and says Here, be King.
2. Aragorn accepts Anduril.
3. Frodo and Sam: Hi, here-we-are-again type exposition (like the lembas scene.)
4. Frodo says "There will be a King again." and the scene cuts to
5. Aragorn contemplating Anduril, probably with a panned close-up of some sort.

You will need all of that, in roughly that order, for the scene segue to work. For example, Aragorn has to receive the Anduril first, then contemplate it in a separate scene cut, or the audience won't catch the significance, and may not even know it's Anduril. The bottom line is that if you intercut all this set-up with Isengard and Rohan, you're at least 15 minutes into the movie. So if the rumor is true, the crossroad scene will likely not open RotK. IMO, it will be Arwen peeling off from that line of Elves and sneaking up on the shards of Narsil.

Warning: Old codger ready to rant about "how things were back then"



As I said before, I don't agree with a lot of Germaine Greer's opinions, and certainly not her one on LotR, but I feel something of a need to talk about where--or, more accurately, when--she's coming from, because I do somewhat understand it. She was fighting a hard fight, and I think sometimes old warriors don't realize when it's time to relax a bit.

My parents were far from perfect, but one thing I'm grateful for is growing up with a total lack of attitude that there were certain things you did or didn't do because you were male or female. It was quite a shock to me when I walked into my first day of high school physics--not a required class, but one you had to choose to take--and found out that it consisted of 17 boys... and me. I wasn't expecting it, because there'd been a lot of girls in chemistry class the year before. Turns out you had to have chemistry to go to nursing school, which was the only reason any of the girls had taken it. Nursing school didn't require physics, so they didn't take any science their senior year. This was in 1972, and my first exposure to the "real world" of sexual stereotypes. The guidance counselor had tried adamantly to talk me out of taking physics, but I stuck by my guns even more adamantly. He never said, "You shouldn't take physics because you're a girl, so what the *$%& would you ever use it for?" and I was mightily puzzled as to why he didn't want me to take it, but when I walked into class that first day I figured it out pretty quickly.

When I'd read LotR for the first time several years earlier, I hadn't been especially impressed with Eowyn--except that I'd felt very sorry for her. I didn't--and still don't--identify with any of the female characters in LotR. But because of the attitude I'd been raised with by my parents, I had absolutely no problem identifying with many of the male characters--which is exactly what I did, without even thinking about it. I'm glad I was able to do that, but that first day of physics class told me there were a lot of girls my age who couldn't have.

That same physics class at that same school is probably about 50% female today. At the university where I work, half of the medical students and over half of the law students are female. Young girls are looking at an entirely different world today. IMHO, no one really has to worry about them having enough women--fictional or nonfictional--to identify with. There are still similar problems for other groups, of course-- young African-American males, for example.

I don't think fiction has to be heavy-handed politically, but I do think it's been a positive thing for girls to have more "fictional" female role models over the last 30 years. It might not have made much difference to me, but it might have to those who didn't feel they could look at any way of life that wasn't traditionally female. So I understand when women have problems with the lack of female characters in LotR, even though I don't agree with them about it.



End of Old codger rant

Originally posted by Eldalieva
I think (????) it is Ursula K. LeGuin who has also criticized his work, for its lack of both female presence and sexuality. I'd assume LeGuin has read the books; it's a little disappointing to think an intelligent, educated woman like Greer would publicly blast something she did not have first-hand experience with. And even if she had, and still felt that way, I always wonder, what is wrong with just a good story? Does everything have to have some heavy-handed (and, of course, politically correct) 'message,' in order to have value?

Alas, this describes the Ursula K. LeGuin of Dancing at the Edge of the World, and the LeGuin who left Asimov, Heinlein and Bradbury out of her Norton Anthology of S-F (renamed "The Norton Book of PC S-F" by many s-f fans). She has completely ossified into a mindless drone, IMHO, and it's quite possible she has condemned Tolkien.

When she was younger and more open-minded, however, LeGuin wrote, "I never cease to wonder at the critics who find Tolkien a "simple" writer. What marvelously simple minds they must have!" In her essay on Tolkien, where she says she is glad she did not read LOTR until she was older because he would have over-influenced her as a writer, she also says, "No ideologues, not even religious ones, are going to be happy with Tolkien, unless they manage it by misreading him. For like all great artists he escapes ideology by being too quick for its nets, too complex for its grand simplification, too fantastic for its rationality, too real for its generalizations. They will no more keep Tolkien labeled and pickled in a bottle than they will Beowulf, or the Elder Edda, or the Odyssey."

I re-read LeGuin's The Language of the Night: Essays on Fantasy and Science Fiction every couple of years (always matched with Madeleine L'Engle's Walking on Water: Reflections on Faith and Art; they're an interesting pair), and it's hard to explain the depth of my disappointment over Dancing. She's become what she warned against in Language. :(

Originally posted by Narya Celebrian

Let me introduce you to a Canadian writer, Margaret Atwood, whose work I detest with a total and complete passion.

Narya, I salute you! Atwood irks me no end, the more so because my mother likes her. :rolleyes: I find her writing just plain turgid. Matter of fact, I looked up turgid to make sure I was using it correctly, and there I found the definition of The Handmaid's Tale - "2. Figuratively, inflated: bombastic: tumid: a turgid tale of a woman wronged." :D I have a low tolerance for that sort of thing - I found Alice Walker's The Color Purple irritating as well, but Walker was at least entertaining. I found Atwood unreadable.

If I were to attend your book burning, my contribution would be John Barth. I was assigned a lot of drivel in my college days, but his Lost in the Funhouse is the only one that still makes me grind my teeth. I've heard that "if you like Vonnegut, you'll like Barth," and I'm here to say that ain't so a'tall. Loved Vonnegut, hated Barth.

I guess I'll break down and actually discuss something on topic. I kind of think that even if EW had read the entire LOTR, he wouldn't have had big problems with PJ's take on Frodo. Not everyone who has read the book and does love Frodo thinks PJ's wimped Frodo out or still agonizes over the various missing scenes in FOTR, and somehow I suspect that EW would be one of those not real concerned that Frodo have his heroic moments. He just doesn't seem to sweat whether his characters look heroic or not, so I suspect he isn't that worried that his heroes fit that mold, either.

My fingers are crossed for Maeglian's opening to ROTK, although I don't really expect it. I've always loved that statue - it was on the cover of the first copy of ROTK I read, IIRC, and the proportions not too far from those in the still. I wonder if PJ was using that painting? I wouldn't put it past him.

I love the limericks!

Sheryl

Oh well, Erendis, Sheryl, I'll continue hoping for that opening scene, though I admit it's unlikey. The segue of scenes you posted, Erendis, actually seems probable but :eek: quite lengthy for a film that probably barely will pass the 3 hour mark and has to cover so much.

I have a confession: I liked Atwood's "Alias Grace" very much. Intrigueing story, intrigueing character, fascinating psychological riddles, slightly mystical events within the everyday life and criminal horrors both;- or so I thought when I read it, several years ago. So I was actually very pleased to read this:
Alias Grace and Cate (http://www.ananova.com/entertainment/story/sm_350599.html)

I *fully* agree with you all on the "Handmaid's Tale" though - in one word: UGH! And the much-praised "Blind Assassin" I'm slightly ashamed to say that I found predictable and :eek: very boring...........


Fascinating info on Greer, LeGuin et al! :)

tg's got a point. I keep forgetting the people in this thread. Almost all of us are mature women with college degrees, and we all have internet access, have read LotR, and haven't been scared away yet. This combination is pretty rare in the general population, and it seems you have to pass through multiple filters to get here. So although it sounds to us as if women are strong and don't need role models, we are by no means representitive.

tg, I'm about 12 years behind you. By the mid 80's, the gender difference in math/science was nearly gone, but the bias in the trade subjects was still going strong (still is, too). I was the only girl in both wood and metal shop in junior high at a low-mid class public school, and I have to admit that was very hard for me.

On an Elijah note: I wonder if Elijah just liked MovieFrodo better than BookFrodo? It's too easy to act the straight-and-narrow leading man, and as an actor I don't think Elijah could pass up the "junkie" opportunity.

I'm sorry, it's not my intention to break into a serious and interesting discussion.... :o But this popped into my head and I hope it's OK I do a quick post-and-run since I won't be online at all tomorrow:

The "Best Case RotK Content" limerick

There's no reason our ideas won't fly!
So let's issue a rallying cry
for "Return" to be long,
with excessively strong
Frodo-focus: The limit's the sky!!


Mariol, I forgot to thank you for the Robert Frost poem. One of his, and such a thought-provoking one too, that I hadn't read before! :eek: I'd better trot back to my "collected Frost poems" and investigate whether there are other yet-unknown-to-me gems. :)
But not tonight........ Good night, all!

Originally posted by erendis
tg, I'm about 12 years behind you. By the mid 80's, the gender difference in math/science was nearly gone...
I had a similar experience to tg's in high school... in 1984. No girls took trig in the class ahead of mine. My algebra teacher told us girls couldn't do math. The biology teacher made similar comments. Girls didn't take physics.

I feel like I discovered civilization in college.

I read The Handmaid's Tale soon after leaving that situation, and given that it was set very near my home town (and going back to past discussions, very close to Stephen King's home town too... a friend of mine did jail time for stealing Halloween decorations from King's fence...)... well, I liked the Handmaid's Tale. I needed heavy-handed feminist fiction at that point in my life.

I'd read LotR before puberty, though, and it didn't convince me that I couldn't do various things because I was a girl, though.

If you think Atwood is heavy-handed, don't ever read anything by Sheri Tepper.

tg, I'm delighted to see that the first swoon I've ever seen from you was over geeky grammar! :cool: :D

erendis, that's the second statement I've seen attributed to me today that I don't remember making... :o Though I can imagine saying it!

I'm enjoying the comments everyone is making about how reading the book might not have affected how Elijah played Frodo... (desperately trying to say something on topic).

Mel

~~~~~~ROTK Spoiler~~~~~~~


The whole 1min43sec-not-so-good-quality E3 ROTK promo clip has appeared online, download it here:
( .mov, 5.25MB)
http://img-nex.theonering.net/movies/rotk-e3-stream.mov
OR
http://www.576.hu/upload/M_18/rek1/550/MOV00686.MPG?PHPSESSID=41b51cbc998679cad7bb319119d501b5
(.mpeg, 8.98MB)

note: the last 20sec are game footage.


~~~~~~ROTK Spoiler~~~~~~~

I did a gif of Frodo's part, but can't connect to Lycos' FTP at the moment :rolleyes: , so I'll try uploading the screencaps and gif later.

In the late 80s it was compulsory for me to take woodwork and metalwork at school, as it was for boys to take typing, sewing and home economics. Girls were also nagged into taking chemistry and maths. Pity I was useless at all the “boy” stuff. :)

I’ve not read any Margaret Atwood, but I liked the quote Elda used.

Don’t know if Greer would like Eowyn or not so I’ve limericked both POVs.

Germaine thought our Eowyn quite feeble
and began to dissent and to wheedle
She picked up Wyn’s sword
“Phallic symbol!” she roared
but Wyn muttered, “it still beats a needle.”

Germaine claimed Tolkien’s works were quite shifty
but admitted Eowyn was nifty,
Eowyn liked the appellative
and said, “dear, it’s all relative
“I’ve a Wiki to slay, you the 50s.”

[Popping in as the timid voice of the younger generation...]

Sad to say that, while I agree that the gender bias is evening out in the Sciences (more so than in Math, which I always found a very intimidating subject) I've been the only girl in my computer classes for a few years running now. Not that there is any active discrimination, but there is no active *encouragement* either, which I find a bit sad.
On a related note, I recently read Handmaid's Tale and found it a bit outside my realm of comprehension - I could tell there was a lot of feminist stuff in there that I just wasn't clueing into.

Somewhere back on topic, I'm really trying hard to think of some kind of dynamic way for PJ to open ROTK...some residual skermish of Faramir's, which Frodo hears off in the distance? I doubt the "prophetic dream" device would be used again... (so handy, shame.)

edit: ROFL! Peachy's Limericks have Invaded the Faculty!!
"Phallic Symbol" indeed...LOL

Here's the gif of Frodo's part in that E3 promo video I posted earlier:

~~~~~spoiler~~~~~

(368x274, 738kb)http://members.lycos.co.uk/duckycc/e3rotk.gif

smaller version:
(200x149, 267kb)http://members.lycos.co.uk/duckycc/e3rotksm.gif


and 2 screencaps:
http://members.lycos.co.uk/duckycc/e3rotk01.jpg
http://members.lycos.co.uk/duckycc/e3rotk02.jpg
(I brightened up the second one because it's too dark.)


Also, some ROTK/TTT SEE info from the official fan club magazine interview with PJ:
http://www.tolkienonline.com/docs/11703.html

On shelob: Shelob will be "the creepiest and scariest of creatures." Based on the Tunnel Web spider of New Zealand. A picture of one of those nasty beasts can be found here: http://www.naturespic.com/articles/article6/6286ig02_w.jpg

:eek: That's the nastiest, yuckiest spider I've ever seen. ewwwwww http://members.lycos.co.uk/duckycc/smilies/yuck.gif

~~~~~spoiler end~~~~~

deluby - thank you! :k Can't look at gifs or Frodo jpgs yet because there's something wonky with this monitor making everything but the spider look too dark. Speaking of which ... ewwwwww.

LOL! Peachy. And thanks for the poem; thanks to Mariol and Maeg as well for the other poems. I overcame my Tom Bombadil phobia and read them all. ;)

Not much to say about gender bias - it's a very confusing issue in Asia, but I'm getting even more bewildered by the minute by all this history from the West. :p

Back on topic - I second what's been said about MovieFrodo's character arc. My second (or was it third?) viewing of TTT was a back-to-back right after FotR, and I came out of that experience very hungry (Pippin rubs off on ya ;)) and feeling like I was right in the middle of a story. Nothing to nitpick about in terms of characterisation - of any character, really. They were all still the middle of a story, and I was impatient to get to the end of the tale with them. It's still my opinion there's nothing wrong at all with MovieFrodo's characterisation (but to be fair, I should admit that I liked MF straightaway. I didn't like BookFrodo immediately and I don't think I ever would have used the term 'feisty' to describe him anyway; BF took many chapters to grow on me. That difference endeared me to Elijah's Frodo right off). Whatever one thinks of Elijah's take on Frodo, the fact remains that he's an actor, and I doubt very much any actor would purposely play his hero role as a wimp, nor 'sell-out' or underplay the role of a lifetime. :p :D

But I don't know - I might get trouted for saying this - he did say something about having something better than the books. He had the whole of Middle Earth coming to life around him, so that he practically was living it as his character. I agree with that take, if it helped him play MovieFrodo as MF should be.

Deluby, that spider is horrible!:eek: Shelob's Lair is going to be so angsty and great.:D

Originally posted by mel headstrong
I had a similar experience to tg's in high school... in 1984. No girls took trig in the class ahead of mine. My algebra teacher told us girls couldn't do math. The biology teacher made similar comments. Girls didn't take physics.

I gotta say, this just boggles my mind. I graduated in 1978. My first computer programming teacher strongly recommended that I take advanced computer programming, and a number of teachers and fellow students (male) said I could handle more advanced math. They were right, I suspect. I was convinced math wasn't for me because, due to my Visual Spatial Learning thing and the methods used to teach arithmetic in grade school, I'd just felt stupid in math for years - but I'd quite enjoyed algebra and geometry was cake, plus Visual Spatial Learners tend to be good at higher math, so who knows?

My guidance counselor was convinced I should be a research scientist. When I did poorly on the physical coordination portion of the aptitude test, he said, "Oh, don't worry about that - you're going to be a theorist anyhow." :p My biology teacher loaned me obscure articles from peer-reviewed journals on stuff like the critters in a termite's gut that enable termites to digest wood. My physics teacher was wonderful, wonderful - he was later a finalist for National Teacher of the Year and was one of the teachers in the Space program, trained with Christa McAuliffe. His only flaw was that he spelled words that started with "f" with a "ph," as in, "Physics is Phun." It was, too, I loved physics, and not just because of the teacher.

My chemistry teacher was a great guy, too, but I hated chemistry. The one good thing about it was that my brother was my lab partner - since we moved so often, all my prior lab partners had all been the kids no one else would team up with. My brother was my first lab partner who actually *did* stuff. I think it was hard on the teacher having the two of us in class, though. My sister swears to this day that he abruptly retired because he found out she was going to be in his class, and that she was our younger sibling. She does seem to have evidence in favor of this theory, but really my brother and I were pretty well behaved. Honest. Even when Mr. Miller blew things up and coated our books and stuff in blue powder. (Never sit in the front seats in Miller's class. We learned this too late.)

I was the only female in advanced computer programming, but there were only six in the class so it didn't bother me much. I got tired of being the only female in the Computer Club (actually, I got tired of outsiders razzing me about it), and conned a couple of female friends into joining who'd taken beginning computers. But the guys actually in the club were mostly cool - there was one jerk, who was also in my advanced programming class, and called me a "token" in there, but I pretty much wrote that off as him being a defensive moron rather than assuming it was the attitude of the average fellow Computer Club member. I don't think that was the attitude of most of the guys, particularly after I did the first assignment in the advanced class and it ran in less than half the time of anyone else's. ;)

My brother was the only male in home ec. My sister took shop, but I don't know if she was the only female there. The one thing that I thought hopelessly sexist in my high school was the "Girl's Auto Mechanics" course I took. It consisted entirely of book work - the teacher would hand out worksheets with quotes from the book and we'd fill in the blanks from the quotes he'd pulled. Incredibly boring and pointless - I asked, and it turned out the guys in the beginning class were actually working on cars, so of course I threw a stink. But only a few of the others girls really cared - they weren't there to learn; they were there because it was an easy credit. The teacher didn't really change the rules but did let those of us who were interested do minor work on our cars - changing the oil kinda stuff. Rah.

Originally posted by mel headstrong

I read The Handmaid's Tale soon after leaving that situation, and given that it was set very near my home town (and going back to past discussions, very close to Stephen King's home town too... a friend of mine did jail time for stealing Halloween decorations from King's fence...)... well, I liked the Handmaid's Tale. I needed heavy-handed feminist fiction at that point in my life.

Maybe my problem with the heavy-handed stuff is that it just didn't fit my life. My Great Aunt was a college prof from the nineteen twenties until the nineteen sixties - there's a building named after her on my dad's college campus - and she traveled the world and pretty much demonstrated that women could do as they pleased with their lives. My mom's mom worked when I was a kid, too, worked even after Grandpa retired IIRC (she was ten years younger than he was). When we visited as little kids, Grandpa would get up and make us pancakes bigger than our plates, while Grandma slept in.

If you were close to Stephen King's home town, that would put you in the east, yes? My family was in Minnesota and Iowa, and I was in Colorado, same school system as Columbine for my last 2 1/2 years of high school. Maybe people further west just weren't as sexist. Women got the vote considerably earlier out west.

Originally posted by deluby

That's the nastiest, yuckiest spider I've ever seen. ewwwwww


Thanks ever so for posting that picture right before I go to bed, deluby. :mad: :rolleyes: :D

Sheryl

I took shop in Grade 8, along with one female friend of mine. Two girls and 28 guys, and a shop teacher who had no trouble announcing daily that he felt there were things wrong in the universe when there were girls allowed in his class. No doubt encouraged by this hostility, one of the boys pushed my friend into the lathe one day while it was on, and broke two of her fingers - I have always been grateful it was not much worse.

I think the teacher was a little abashed that his comments may have actually prompted this, :rolleyes: so subsequently he spent the rest of the year wondering aloud why a whole roomful of boys could not manage to produce the quality of work that the two girls did. Of course, he always said "girls" in that shivery voice that only true male chauvinists can master, and he was intending 'you're not as good as a girl' as an insult to the boys, but at least he acknowledged we were excelling, and we both got high marks in the class. (There were only a few of us who could handle the tools well enough to be allowed to work with the molten plastics, and us girls were amongst them! And I was wicked good at drafting! And the fastest and straightest screwer of screws! :D)

*******

That is certainly a disgusting spider, especially with the hair on the legs. I still think the one that lived on my porch a couple of years ago was a good candidate for Shelob-in-training - it had a horrible swollen whitish grey body that was bulbous and round and about an inch and a half long, and it made a web from my roof to the ground that I pulled back five feet and it would not break. I had to cut it with scissors, it was so strong. I couldn't bring myself to squash it, as it was just too big and disgusting. I put the spider down the sewer drain, and poured gallons of water after it, and it came back. I put it out in the street, hoping it would get run over, and it came back. I poured enough concentrated spider killer stuff on it to treat an acre of land, and it curled up into a little ball for three months - then uncurled and built another web from my roof to the ground. Disgusting. Shelob is going to give me the major creeps.

re Ms Greer I don't have time to be tactful (brace yourselves ) but IMO the woman is an attention seeking pain in the neck. Yes she was an influential feminist. But feminists are far from a unified group and they have strongly different views and interpretations. Ms Greer, and this is IMO only, jumped on the feminist bandwagon because it was radical, antagonistic and provocative. Now that many of its ideas are mainstream in the west she has spent some considerable time ditzing her fellow feminists. Again this is my opinion, (but unfortuneately she has spent a fair amount of time here ...rats), she is a Cause Follower who find issues that create a furor and create attention. Controversy is her forte. She really should have just gone into politics (I guess her widely publicised remark about wearing no knickers precluded that! :rolleyes: At least in conservative Australasia.)

Oh. btw I'm absolutely not knocking feminism. I am one. Very assertively too I might add. :) But this woman ....sigh....:rolleyes:

My main point here: being exasperated by Ms Greer is not the same as ditzing feminism. So she doesn't like Tolkein. Cool. I would have worried if she did!!! :D

I went to a girls' school so all the science students (and there were many) were girls. My wretchedly clever twin was one of them. And just to hearten you feminists out there: NZ's high schools' top scores in science and maths (and everything else really) have over the last decade been so overwhelmingly female that a special study is being done to investigate how to switch boys back into learning!!!:rolleyes: As a mum of two wonderful boys this concerns me. As a feminist I have to laugh and say there's real irony here: now we will be starting a campaign to convince males that science and maths are subjects they can shine in, and they should not be put off by the girls!

re EW's Frodo. Yes, I think from what I've read that EW followed Jackson's direction. So thump PJ if you hate this version of Frodo. Me??? I have no problem with this vision: I've never seen Frodo as particularly convincingly feisty so this version meshes fairly well with mine.....err...do I need to duck now??:p

Sheryl: you are sooooo a geek!!!:cool:

edit: oooh gross. Narya your spider story is just what I Don't Need To Read! I'm battling a White Tailed Spider Invasion at the moment (horrible bitey little things from Australia that can leave you with a serious infection). Ugh. I am so not looking forward to Shelob.

Ummm...the pic posted doesn't look like a Tunnel Web Spider to me. I am not an expert but it's not in my NZ Book of Insects. Is this the (dangerous) Australian version? The NZ version can give a painful bite but is shy and not poisonous. I have a couple living in my woodshed. They are sort of corrugated or stripey and not that big. I let them be: live and let live. :)

Right. I really am going now. Yup. Right now. Really. Here I go...

That is one ugly spider, and it looks like a funnel web except for the brown abdomen (perhaps that's a tree dweller?) Look here you're interested and can bear to find out more about the Sydney funnel web spider http://wildlife.faunanet.gov.au/factfile.cfm?Fact_ID=84. If PJ uses this as the model for Shelob I'm done for. I've met a few of these in real life, and I carry the emotional scars.

(Yuk, now I'm going to have nightmares :eek: )

I was just about to start High School when Germaine Greer's Female Eunuch was published. I seem to recall that it was banned at the school (an all-girls Church school), but that was probably just in the first heat of the moment, so to speak. After all, this was country Australia lost somewhere in a post-war frame of mind, where we weren't permitted to have school tunics more than 1 inch above the knee.

It was a small school, and subject choices were limited by availability of teachers rather than by gender choice. When I left school and moved down to the city to go to University most of the hard work in breaking down barriers seemed to have been done. I had anticipated more opposition from my parents about my study/career choices, but it seemed that some of the new ways of thinking had rubbed off on them too.

I find it worse now in the workplace. But that's another story. :(

A belated to thank you to whoever posted the interview with EW about working with PJ. That was a delightful thing to read. And also to deluby, for the great gifs. :)

from Eldalieva
I like to imagine that we would have gotten a more book-true Frodo if Elijah had read the books and been as staunch a supporter of his character as Sean Astin had been of Sam. However, I don't think that would have happened
Very nice summary. I heartily agree with your description of EW molding himself to fit the part as PJ wanted it. As tg pointed out, Chris Lee had to adapt Saruman to PJ's adaptation, and he knows the books intimately. Your report on the consistent character arc is encouraging as well. Thank you!

I've already bewailed the painfully unsatisfying 28% Frodo Content situation in the Movies Forum!
It can never be bewailed enough for me. Whine away! I'll be the person keening loudly next to you. I'm a such a tweenager -- whenever Frodo appears on the screen, my attention perks up. I ought to become president of the FCSC (Frodo Content Situation Club), and monitor this ongoing situation into the next movie. Picture me as one of those scientists in Antarctica, pulling a core sample out of the ice and studying it with furrowed brow for signs of global warming. The situation is dire, the world must be warned! (In my ear, Aragorn whispers huskily, "Go, Frodo!" -- and we're off! Or I am, anyway...)

from Sheryl
somehow I suspect that EW would be one of those not real concerned that Frodo have his heroic moments. He just doesn't seem to sweat whether his characters look heroic or not

from erendis
I wonder if Elijah just liked MovieFrodo better than BookFrodo? It's too easy to act the straight-and-narrow leading man, and as an actor I don't think Elijah could pass up the "junkie" opportunity.
I love this discussion. Based on various interviews, I think EW would have leaped onto the portrayal of Psycho!Frodo faster than you could say, "Help me, Aragorn!" He does like dark, tormented characters, and would not be afraid of the downward spiral -- I think he'd relish it!


Narya, your disgusting spider story is horrible! That's how the spawn of Ungoliant got to Mordor -- it was washed in a chemically induced comatose state down the storm drain until it was vomited onto Gorgoroth plain. Spiders do not normally creep me out -- I'm the person who captures them and sets them safely outside -- but your description, and her repeated returns -- yuck!!!

re Ms Greer: I don't know anything about her, but someone (anyone) who gets paid for bashing an author (speaking at panels, etc.) absolutely must have read such author, or they are clearly acting selfishly and irresponsibly. My take only sounds softer than Prim's because I don't know the woman, but I do think she needs to educate herself before passing any more public judgments. (Peachy, loved your limericks!)

I don't have much to contribute to the gender stereotype discussion. I grew up in an all-girl household, and my parents are ardent feminists. When anyone outside of my family suggested that girls couldn't do (whatever), I tended to give them a blank stare. Education and self-reliance were always emphasized. When reading books, I would tend to identify with whatever characters I wanted to, regardless of gender or species (I wanted to write all-animal books before I grew to the age where I found boys interesting).

from tgshaw
I do think it's been a positive thing for girls to have more "fictional" female role models over the last 30 years
I'll second that. I have to admit that I never felt the lack growing up without them, but there is a certain mindshift that occurs when female characters (or female whatever) become more common. I still remember when I saw my first female cop -- my jaw literally dropped. Now they're so common my nieces don't even remark on it. In fact, when my youngest niece was learning the presidents of the United States, she naively asked, "Where are the women ones?" When told that there were no women presidents, she burst into uproarious laughter -- she was sure we were playing a joke on her! When my sister and I managed to convey that, no, it was really true, she got this strange, thoughtful look on her face. It was clearly her first confrontation with prejudice.

I like the fact that my niece is growing up in a world where it should be considered ludicrous that there's never been a female president. I think she'll be in the generation to see such changes occur. Good on her!


Maeg, I stumbled across that Robert Frost poem at yoga camp and cried my eyes out. It still affects me that way; I don't know why, it just hits me where I live. Perhaps it's the same thing that fascinates me about LOTR, and why I keep returning ... going on, in face of the odds, all the while knowing that you truly may not succeed. Now that's life!

Deluby, your Spooky!Blue-eyed!Turning!Frodo gif -- :k

Originally posted by mariol3b3
I love this discussion. Based on various interviews, I think EW would have leaped onto the portrayal of Psycho!Frodo faster than you could say, "Help me, Aragorn!" He does like dark, tormented characters, and would not be afraid of the downward spiral -- I think he'd relish it!

Of course, it would take a lot of research (probably including an in depth interview with the study subject ;) ) to find out if there's any connection with Elijah's portrayal of Frodo, but I seem to remember that one of the books he did read while getting his feet glued on every morning was American Psycho :eek: .

(Seriously, I think mariol is exactly right here.)

Ewwww! I just looked..very quickly with squinty eyes... at THE spider!!!!

I've heard about these creatures and that they are the most deadly spider on the planet..I believe. Suitable indeed for Shelob but...


Great googley moogley! That is the most ugly spider ever! Ick!!!!! Bleeech!!!!

Erendis, just have to ask -
I wonder if Elijah just liked MovieFrodo better than BookFrodo? It's too easy to act the straight-and-narrow leading man, and as an actor I don't think Elijah could pass up the "junkie" opportunity.
Is the implication here that book-Frodo is a 'easy to act...straight-and-narrow' leading man???
That Elijah would go for the languishing Ring junkie, seems not unlikely - but terribly disappointing. The by-now cliche junkie character preferred over subtle, complex, intelligent, witty book Frodo as an acting challenge? This does not bode well for my dream ROTK :( .

Which reminds me -
(Edited to fix confusing typos)
EW and PJ (from what I remember in interviews) have often used the words 'addicted' and 'obsession' to describe Frodo's relationship with the Ring. Sounds right, at first. But then again I never would have applied those words to Frodo's condition or behavior in the book. Eventually (finally), book Frodo becomes 'possessed' by the Ring, which seems to me rather different.

Here are Webster's definitions:
Addicted = Compulsive need for and use of a habit-forming substance - of being devoted or surrendering oneself to something habitually. (Derivation: Lat. addicere - to favor).
Possessed = Influenced or controlled by something, such as an evil spirit. (Derivation: Lat. possidere - able to sit, potent; to be in the power of such a one)
'Obsession,' I see as an outcome of either of the above, and so discount the it for this discussion.

The first term (addicted) implies an act in which someone has already indulged willingly and with increasing frequency. In the case of the Ring - that would mean wearing it. Frodo never 'indulged' himself by wearing the Ring until the bitter end - not even in the movie, so far. However, the Ring-petting scene is, IMO, an example of the movie's trivializing Frodo's response to Ring, presenting it as mere 'attraction' which then becomes chemical addiction. Little need to develop the character of victim or perpetrator - just a quick, dramatic deterioration of the protagonist, relatively easy to film.

The 2nd term (possessed) seems an accurate summary of Frodo's struggle against and eventual suborning by the Ring in the book. Makes for interesting and intellectually challenging plot and character developments - the longer drawn out, the more effective. I think an 'excellent' movie could do this. Sadly, as much as I love the 2 LOTR films I've seen so many times, I think the final movie is unlikely to accomplish this. But there's always hope :rolleyes:

Well, I feel like I'm late for the prom, but, after much EW "research", I'm glad to be here! For some unknown reason I wasn't "sold" on EW 'til after TTT (even though I think the SE DVD FOTR is better) but I now am!!

Apparently I'm fortunate here in a big city to be able to pretty easily rent all of his other movies at nearby video/DVD stores. Of course I have yet to see Try 17. I haven't found Child in the Night but I did find Oliver Twist. Chain of Fools came in the mail from yesasia this week and my husband and I will be watching it tomorrow!!!
(I'm now working two jobs so I've been able to resist ).

I'm new to the web too so please forgive any virgin mistakes.

I LOVED Trudy G. Shaw's website (http://members.tripod.com/afewwords_tgs/index.htm), especially the disclaimer. I'm a 38 (as of yesterday) year old happily married mother of two and I have no use for swooning over a 22 year old (that's my story and I'm sticking by it ;)).

BUT, to find a place like this is great!!

Speaking of being too late. I really liked the www.heartstars.net/lotr/lotrlist.html ("LIFE?! WHAT LIFE DO YOU THINK WE HAVE!? : BEEN WATCHING THE MOVIE TOO MUCH?") site and I wanted to post a few short additions but apparently the string is closed so maybe the Faculty will indulge me:


You know you've seen Lord of the Rings too many times [OK WE COULD DISCUSS THAT AT LENGTH!!] when:

1.) You make a deal with your four-year-old that he can keep saying "My preciousss!" if he'll sit through "another Frodo movie!" with you.

2.) Your dad and your husband (who, to his credit, is currently reading The Silmarillion) who first turned you on to Tolkien and LOTR are now looking at you like you're "slightly mental".

3.) You take your copy of the book to the theatre to read while you're waiting for the previews. I actually considered taking a flashlight so I wouldn't have to stop 'til The Two Towers actually started but decided that was over the top.

4.) You're not the slightest bit interested in the summer movies.

5.) You use up all your paper printing LOTR stuff off the web.


Happy to be here! Forgive the long post.

P.S. Where can I find the beginning of this thread (Dec 2001)?
What is CoE?

nurse ... WELCOME! :) Is the nickname representative of a RL occupation, or what you wish you could do for Frodo as he continues on his painful journey? ;)

It's a wonderful LOL first long post, btw - you'll love it here, definitely. :D CoE is the Council of Elrond: www.council-of-elrond.com There's a message board (www.council-of-elrond.com/forums/) as well, and the Faculty thread kinda started out there. Alas, the original beginning of this thread is lost (although there are folks who have it saved as a historical file). Long story, but if you're interested, feel free to PM any one of us. :)

Btw, the Movie Forum at CoE is fair teeming with RotK spoilers, so you can take that as a hint, if you're so inclined. ;)

And ... Happy Birthday! :cool:

Originally posted by Prim
just to hearten you feminists out there: NZ's high schools' top scores in science and maths (and everything else really) have over the last decade been so overwhelmingly female that a special study is being done to investigate how to switch boys back into learning!!!:rolleyes: As a mum of two wonderful boys this concerns me. As a feminist I have to laugh and say there's real irony here: now we will be starting a campaign to convince males that science and maths are subjects they can shine in, and they should not be put off by the girls!

What's been done here for years now is that the universities raise the entrance grade for female students so that it's more competitive and harder for girls to get in. It's an attempt at gender balancing. Kinda works, but there're still many more females than males in all our universities. :p

Anyway, great to see you, Prim. Speaking of your twin, how are ya, Viola? I hope you're still having time to lurk, at least. Don't want the trouts to get ya!


Nice bit you shared with us, Mariol, about your niece. :)


Say, mel ... you mean you have a friend who got that close to Stephen King? Whoa. You knowing someone who almost knew Stephen King. Whoa. :D


Hi Hobmom! Hope you're all recovered now! :k

Brace yourselves for a long incoming post, folks!


Hi, and welcome, Nurse! You sound like you'll fit right in here! :) And a belated Happy Birthday to you!

Yes, as ainon said, the history of the Faculty stretches back quite a bit, actually over 3 different message boards. It started out as the Elijah Wood Non-swoony discussion in early January 2002 on a board called Imladris, which is not available anymore. And the guy who started it all called himself Nufurion. For the sake of old times, this is the post that he opened the whole discussion with. This is our original "mission statement"! It still rings very true (except perhaps some of the last sentence. :D) It's kind of nice to remember anyhow:Originally posted by Nufurion at Imladris when starting the then "non-swoony" discussion thread:

Anybody else think the guy stole the show in FOTR?
Quite a few people have described him as being 'wet' - but if anything I really bought into his acting performance.

Frightened, grief-stricken, vulnerable. I can't be bothered with some of this super-hero types who seem impervious to pain and suffering.

Frodo had the look of a person who had been given the worst job imaginable in middle-earth and Elijah Wood made me believe it - to the point where I was fighting back the tears on **several** occasions.

Well done to a fellow who I didn't think could act.......
That is oh, say..... 8000 posts ago? :cool:


Hobmom, I second ainon: I hope you are feeling better! :)


Spoilery thank-you note
*
*
*

Deluby, let me once again shower you with rose petals in gratitude: Those gifs of Frodo and Sam climbing the stairs to Shelob's lair, zooming in on Frodo going from worried to terrified, are fantastic (and I couldn't get them to load from TORn even while they were still there). This has the look of a darkish horror film if ever I saw one.... :eek:


*
*
End spoilery thank-you!


It's been so long since I watched TTT :( , that I almost find it difficult to comment on the obsession/possession/addiction issue. However, I think that TTT shows that the Ring (aka The New and Improved Ring with faster working Evil) is attacking Frodo simultaneously in several different ways, only one of which is "trying to make him addicted."

I am very curious how the addiction/posession theme will be played out in RotK, but judging from TTT, I do think the acting will be multi-layered and many-faceted and go far beyond the "junkie with a craving" portrayal. :)

In TTT, the Ring's main force seems to me to be directed at breaking Frodo's mind and will, through direct brutal attacks (such as the Eye-induced heart attack in the first scenes of the film) and through slow, continuous torture, while urging him to put the Ring on, to get it over with, to stop fighting. ( Would that be possession? - Somehow I feel that word isn't broad enough to describe what's happening to Frodo here.)
In addition it's also using a siren song approach: Enticing him, convincing him it's precious, it's lovely, it should be kept safe, it provides joy and comfort and sensuality.... it works on his mind to make him dependent on keeping it, and so creates an "addictive" urge for the feeling it provides. I think I see all of this in EJW's acting.

I also see a constant ebb and flow of attack (from the Ring) and countermeasure (from Frodo). Frodo takes the blows, stumbling to his knees (both literally and figuratively) yet he always regroups and forms new mental defence lines. For instance; the Ring petting scene happens just once and isn't repeated. Seeing Gollum mimick his actions makes Frodo understand what is happening, and he makes himself stop doing that. The next night he holds the Ring in a firm grip to protect it, but he doesn't pet it. If addiction it is, he's certainly fighting it. And once he's become snappish and is getting into the "What do *you* know....its mine, my own" routine, he does realize what's going on with him, as he admits to Sam at HA, and he doesn't repeat that particular kind of behaviour either. Even the events at Osgiliath show Frodo managing to live through and recover from the most vicious Ring attack on him so far.

That was a really long-winded way of saying that I think "addicition" is just one of a whole repertoire of themes used to show the Ring's impact on Frodo.

--------------

And may I also say, having now watched "Matrix Reloaded"; - how wonderfully happy I am that EJW is allowed to act a hero and the one on whom all depends, yet with no super-powers, no special abilities, no magic or "force" or whatever, nothing except dogged courage and love and hope and humility to help him achieve his impossible quest? I am *so* happy that EJW gets to act out Frodo's internal struggles and his slow losing fight without having him in overwhelming action fight scenes every quarter! :)

(And yes, there's no doubt: I look at agent Smith and think "Elrond!"- not the other way around. :D )

--------------

Well, seeing that it's weekend and silliness is allowed, and I'm still having fun with the limericks, you didn't think you'd escape those this time around? :D

For Hobmom and others who are not enthusiastic about spiders, let's have a look at

The opposition's point of view:

"-Imagine how sad it must be
to be shunned so by all and sundry!
My one consolation,"
Shelob mused, "-the sensation
of the Ringbearer's blood to warm me!" :eek:


And then one to continue helping ainon fight the Tom Bombadil phobia: :D

Like a pupil of old Bombadil -o
I am practicing ring-a-ding-dil -o
diligently each day
Tom has pointed the way
silly songs, ditto rhymes fit my bill -o! :rolleyes:


But finally, rest assured, the voice of reason and serious research *is* making itself heard, too:

A thought whispers: Time to stop!
You've gone totally over the top
writing limericks that
more than often fall flat
there's a risk that they'll majorly flop!


Wishing everyone a very nice weekend! :)

Welcome, nurse!

[off-topic]
Originally posted by ainon
Say, mel ... you mean you have a friend who got that close to Stephen King? Whoa. You knowing someone who almost knew Stephen King. Whoa. :D
Yeah, and my not-very-good high school English teacher had college classes with King, and I think my mother did taxes for King's wife once, and King owned the radio station I listened to in high school.

I don't read his books. :p Well, I read The Stand and Firestarter at one point, but I've never had a particularly great respect for the guy. (Heard too many stories about him, I guess.) I don't think I've ever seen any of the movies based on his books, either.

[/off-topic]

You know, I won't go back to CoE for anything. Any way the spoilers could be summarized in one of the RotK movie threads in the Trilogy section here?

According to an interview I heard yesterday, the first two seasons of Homicide are coming out on DVD. Which season was EW's episode in?

Mel

Mariol: May it Be!

I like the fact that my niece is growing up in a world where it should be considered ludicrous that there's never been a female president. I think she'll be in the generation to see such changes occur.

One last note on this topic: I work at a liberal arts (4 year) College, and the powers that be in this domain are struggling with a gender crisis right now. It seems there are too many women and not enough men entering these schools. :eek: (The ratio is something like 60/40.) But when the numbers were reversed, it was just considered "normal." :rolleyes:

As the mother of a son, I certainly want him to have as many opportunities as possible, but not through gender bias.

And while I have admired some of G. Greer's writing, her public persona, and her true calling, does seem to be "pain in the neck." :p

When I read LoTR the first time (at 15 or so), the only character I identified with was Frodo. Eowyn was cool. Arwen was a nonentity. But Frodo was IT. (Of course I didn't "envision" him, since Tolkien was so taciturn about what Fro looked like.) Gender had nothing to do with it, unless one sees the honor and selflessless of book Frodo as stereotypical female traits, which I don't.

Wonderful discussion of the concept of addiction/possession/obsession in PJ's version of LoTR. Of course those characteristics are more "filmable" than the interiority of book Frodo. I am on board with Maeg's analysis of the range of ways the filmmakers are trying to express the effect of the ring on Frodo.

Welcome to new frequenters of the Lounge! Hello, nurse! We're very friendly here. Anyone who admires EW is at home. But we only swoon for grammar, right tg?

((Hobmom)) Feeling better? Hope so! :)

deluby: thanks again for the gifs. Man, that is some creepy spider. Poor Fro! :(

HUGE versions of those new Fro pics posted on Official site a few days ago!!!!!!!!
~~~~~ROTK SPOILERS~~~~~~~
huge version:
http://members.lycos.co.uk/duckycc/ROTKfro01.jpg
resized version:
http://members.lycos.co.uk/duckycc/ROTKfro01s.jpg


huge version:
http://members.lycos.co.uk/duckycc/ROTKfro02.jpg
cropped version:
http://members.lycos.co.uk/duckycc/ROTKfro02s.jpg

Deluby........... I am speechless! Somebody *please* find the right words for that first picture there, because I sure haven't got any that fit...........


The angst! The beauty! It's PERFECT!!!!! Thank you!!! :k

deluby ... :k WOW. Right words? Who wants words, right now? I just wanna stare ... :o

Thank you, thank you, thank you, deluby! :k :k


Maeg ... <trouts Maeg> That's for the Bombadil prank. Are you trying to induce a relapse in me?! :p :D

Btw, I love your Frodo&theRing analysis. You've articulated all I've felt and thought about things so far so, so perfectly. :k Weren't you gonna share some Weathertop thoughts too, hint hint? :)

Am beginning to raise my eyes toward ROTK again. Those pics - Deluby, thank you :k - 'specially that f-f-first one - WOW!!! *#!*!^*
And besides all that, he looks so defiant, even the midst of his fear. His beautiful innocense seems so trammeled, I don't want to think...

Then there's what Maeglian wrote - In TTT, the Ring's main force seems to me to be directed at breaking Frodo's mind and will, through direct brutal attacks (such as the Eye-induced heart attack in the first scenes of the film) and through slow, continuous torture, while urging him to put the Ring on, to get it over with, to stop fighting. ( Would that be possession? - Somehow I feel that word isn't broad enough to describe what's happening to Frodo here.)I agree, Maeg, just didn't have space to qualify.
In addition it's also using a siren song approach: Enticing him, convincing him it's precious, it's lovely, it should be kept safe, it provides joy and comfort and sensuality.... it works on his mind to make him dependent on keeping it, and so creates an "addictive" urge for the feeling it provides. I think I see all of this in EJW's acting. ...I also see a constant ebb and flow of attack (from the Ring) and countermeasure (from Frodo)..Frodo takes the blows, stumbling to his knees (both literally and figuratively) ...such eloquence leaves me wired with anticipation, yesterday's doubts cast aside :D

Furthermore, Hewene (I think) has an encouraging quote from PJ, over at the Harem, re: the dramatic unfolding of movie 3. Sounds promising, it does!

Enjoy the long weekend, all (whatever the weather)

OK, deluby, you are *trying* to make me hyperventilate, right? :p

That first picture just makes my heart stop, it is so beautiful. The camera angle from below makes Fro look so heroic! and so tragic!

But that second picture looks extremely weird to me. :confused: It MUST be a composite. (I said this before in the Harem, but the comment got lost in the frenzy! :) ) There are two light sources for the body and the head. The head looks too big for the body. If they are going to mess around with Frolijah they should get it right. :mad:

But, oh, that first picture is a keeper! ;)

Thanks for the welcomes!

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ainon
[B]nurse ... WELCOME! :) Is the nickname representative of a RL occupation, or what you wish you could do for Frodo as he continues on his painful journey? ;)

Short answer---
yes, real life occupation. (Though I like the Frodo angle: "I KNOW CPR!".....naw, then Sam couldn't take the ship at the very end).

Long answer-
When I first registered I was procrastinating filling out a job application (got the job, have started a career as a school nurse and I love it!). I was feeling guilty about spending so much free time (two days a week when my son was in preschool, my daughter's in 1st grade) watching EW movies or reading LOTR/EW stuff on the web instead of my previously avid (by the way, I think "avid" is a nicer word than "obsessed" ;)) road biking or home stuff.
AND SO I couldn't bring myself to make up a better name.

After seeing TTT I re read the Hobbit and read the LOTR for the first time. I think the impetus was my husband's intial reaction of dismay at the changes.

It will be interesting to see my reaction to RotK after reading the book for the first time. I'm reading them again now (more slowly).

LOVE the photos from deluby!

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last night I read: 'Of course, it is likely enough, my friends,' [Treebeard] said slowly, 'likely enough that we are going to our doom: the last march of the Ents. But if we stayed at home and did nothing, doom would find us anyway, sooner or later. That thought has long been growing in our hearts; and that is why we are marching now. It was not a hasty resolve. Now at least the last march of the Ents may be worth a song. Aye' he sighed, 'we may help the other peoples before we pass away....'

It's the weekend, so I finally had time to download Deluby's gifs and pics. Wow :cool: ! I had the smaller versions of those two pics from the official site, but that "huge" version of #1 is suitable for framing!
Originally posted by nurse
You know you've seen Lord of the Rings too many times [OK WE COULD DISCUSS THAT AT LENGTH!!] when:......

5.) You use up all your paper printing LOTR stuff off the web.
6.) You have a shelf of CD's containing screencaps, because your computer can't hold them all :p (and God forbid that you'd delete any :eek: !).

Happy to be here! Forgive the long post.
Very glad to have you here :) . And you won't be here very long before you realize that that was not a long post :p :p !

Don't have much to say, except that I'd like to throw in my vote with those who say the effect of the Ring on Frodo as shown in the movie is fairly complicated. It's one "theme" in TTT where I'm still picking up new implications. Partly addiction, yes--especially on Gollum's part ("Must have it...")--but also other layers. I wonder if it isn't one area in which Elijah's acting is adding some nuances that even he isn't able to completely articulate. Some very complex emotional mixes going on at times.


----------------------------

Completely Geeky Book Comment--to end of post

It's difficult, if not impossible, for a true Tolkien geek to pass by even the smallest misunderstood point without correcting it :o . And I'm afraid I shall never be cured. So:

Originally posted by nurse
Short answer---
yes, real life occupation. (Though I like the Frodo angle: "I KNOW CPR!".....naw, then Sam couldn't take the ship at the very end).
In case you want to reconsider your offer of help ;) -- Tolkien's very clear (can everyone say, "Letter 246? :o :p ) that the idea of people being allowed to pass over Sea because they were Ring-bearers is a misunderstanding on Frodo's part. Each mortal who goes into the West is allowed to do so by the Valar on an individual, case-by-case basis. I like this explanation better than Frodo's misconception, because it makes it so much more personal, instead of a blanket, "Okay, everybody who was a Ring-bearer gets to go!" It also makes Gimli's passage possible, which is a difficulty with the Ring-bearer rule. JRRT says that, although Bilbo needed some healing himself, he was allowed to pass into the West primarily "for Frodo's sake," so that Frodo wouldn't be alone. I rather think the Valar might look kindly on Sam's desire for much the same reason. (I do like this explanation so much more, which is one reason I wanted to post it :) :) .)

Tg, thank you for the "Geeky book comment". I *loved* that, not the least because I'd say in my mind it absolutely confirms that Frodo was still alive when Sam finally arrived. For him to arrive only to learn that Frodo was dead wouldn't exactly be a reward for someone who truly deserved one.

Naiad, good to hear you're back on the anticipation route! :)


*
*
Possibly confused spoiler discussionFrom Peaceweaver:
But that second picture looks extremely weird to me. :confused: It MUST be a composite. (snip) There are two light sources for the body and the head. The head looks too big for the body. If they are going to mess around with Frolijah they should get it right. :mad: I agree with you; - it does somehow look like a composite. Another weird thing is that New Line's official caption on the official site for this picture is: "Frodo makes his way through Minas Morgul."

Huh? :confused:

Unless CU, Minas Morgul and Shelob's lair have all been rolled into one in the movie, which isn't at all likely from previous statements from PJ et al, that picture *has* to be from Shelob's lair. Then again, they've given the picture of desperate Sam brandishing Sting and using the phial to fend off Shelob a rather indifferent caption too: Sam uses Galadriel's gift to light the way. :rolleyes:

Those pictures have made me realize something: I may not suffer from arachnophobia, although I am no fan of spiders, exactly, but I *really* dislike getting cobweb threads over my face or on my hands.... that slightly sticky clinging feeling, difficult to get it all away, and I keep looking for the spider. Is it in my hair somewhere? On my clothes? So those pictures with Frodo covered in sticky cobweb threads looking like dirty chewing gum strings are giving me the shivers big time! :eek:

And the first of the two also made me realize that however close to or far from canon PJ is doing the CU scenes, it doesn't matter all that much as long as Frodo looks to Sam with a face equal to that one or (here's hoping!) showing even more beautiful and desperate emotion.

Then I think I will be very grateful that we now have a Faculty nurse :), because I for one may well be in need of CPR! :o


*
*
End spoilery wishful thinking :rolleyes:

From Mel
According to an interview I heard yesterday, the first two seasons of Homicide are coming out on DVD. Which season was EW's episode in? According to IMDB, it was an episode called "The True Test" (episode # 5.8).
I don't know whether that means season 5 or 8, since I'm unfamiliar with the show, apart from having seen that one particular episode.

About the spoilers at CoE, I'd say that as far as I can judge, the real spoilers do find their way here too quite rapidly... although KD tends to have a hobbit-centricity that maybe does not favour spoilers for other characters or parts of the film? Otherwise, it's currently mostly speculation surrounding the new pictures that have been released. Much discussion on where exactly that Elrond/Arwen scene is taking place, and what is going on in the Eowyn/Aragorn picture.

CoE has however been far more structured in keeping track of the RotK spoilers that are confirmed or likely - that's all thanks to LEK, I believe! :)


ainon; - I haven't forgotten about Weathertop..... it'll happen eventually! :D

[QUOTE]
Tolkien's very clear (can everyone say, "Letter 246? :o :p ) that the idea of people being allowed to pass over Sea because they were Ring-bearers is a misunderstanding on Frodo's part. Each mortal who goes into the West is allowed to do so by the Valar on an individual, case-by-case basis.


Well, color me impressed! That does make sense! I can already tell this junior member is going to enjoy learning from the tenured professors. :cool:

Am I the only one who likes the second deluby pic?

By the way, I've decided that publishers should notate prologues. In the case of The Scarlet Letter something like "if you get bogged down, skip it, the book's much better." I was rather angry with Tolkien for not identifying the "spoilerish" nature of Note on Shire Records.

Saw Chain of Fools! Quite funny. I have nothing to add to TG Shaw's review.

Have a great Memorial Day everybody! With any luck it will be the last holiday (after fifteen years of "every other one") I have to work.

Hello all.

First things first - welcome to The Faculty, nurse - and what a very worthwhile and rewarding occupation you have. :)

Maeglian - I also loved reading your post on the Ring's increasing effects/influence on Frodo - very insightful and beautifully written, as always. Keep up the good work with the Limericks - LOL!:)

Those pics from deluby certainly send the angst-meter into overdrive. And that gif of the stairs of CU - :eek: - thanks deluby!:D

I've been working on the 'food' gif from 'The Good Son', but not quite happy with it, yet. Sorry I have nothing 'new' to offer (no TT for me until August) but here's one from 'Fellowship' I thought was worth a look at - pretty sure deluby hasn't covered it - The little scene on Caradhras when Frodo drops the Ring and Boromir picks it up. I love Frodo's reaction/expressions all the way through this - and there are a couple of not-quite blinks in there.

http://www.imagemagician.com/images/blossom/CaradhrasRing.gif

I'm having to delete some of the older gifs to make way for new ones, due to space limitation at IM, but that's life. Hope you enjoy this one.

Must run.

Love to all.

A late welcome to Nurse!! http://members.lycos.co.uk/duckycc/smilies/welcome.gif
Sorry I was too excited yesterday that I forgot. :o

originally posted by peaceweaver
But that second picture looks extremely weird to me. It MUST be a composite. There are two light sources for the body and the head. Hmm, I didn't notice that, http://members.lycos.co.uk/duckycc/smilies/magnify.gif but it still looks fine to me. http://members.lycos.co.uk/duckycc/smilies/huh.gif However, there're something else that caught my eyes, does anyone see those red dots in the background? Do they look like those markers that SFX people use for adding stuff during postproduction? http://members.lycos.co.uk/duckycc/smilies/think.gif


Some Elijah news:
According to ComedyCentral (http://www.comedycentral.com/tv_shows/search_results.jhtml?searchterm=Primetime+Glick), he will be on Primetime Glick show on 6/12, and 6/14. 6/12/2003 800 PM All Times ET/PT
Primetime Glick (ep#307) [cc]
Legendary interviewer Jiminy Glick goes primetime and interviews Megan Mullally and Elijah Wood in this all-new episode.

6/14/2003 730 AM All Times ET/PT
Primetime Glick (ep#307) [cc]
Legendary interviewer Jiminy Glick goes primetime and interviews Megan Mullally and Elijah Wood in this all-new episode.

Also, it looks like he'll attend a MTV movie award party:http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=104&STORY=/www/story/05-22-2003/0001952253&EDATE=
Does that mean he'll be at the award show as well? :confused:


Great gifs, Blossom! I love how your gifs are long and usually covers a whole scene, just like watching a short video clip. Very satifying. :cool: :k

Elijah's name is on the invite list but won't he again be in NZ for ROTK reshoots?

Pity for him to miss out on all that pampering and 'styling'. I'd love to see the results of all that!

Hi people :)

Just a quick post today, got work quite soon :( Am enjoying reading everything here however :) And thanks for those big angsty Fro pics Deluby!

Welcome to Nurse!! :) And hope you had a nice birthday in the Faculty :D

I was noseying about the net (as you do ;) ) and found this! An analysis of the name 'Elijah'. Most interesting ;)

Your name of Elijah has created a most expressive nature, idealistic and inspirational, driven with a strong inner urge to be of service in some way that would uplift humanity as a whole. However, there is a tendency to assume too heavy a burden of responsibility for others, which leads to worry and undue concern. People with problems are drawn to you as they recognize you as one who has understanding and gives not only sympathy and comfort but provides also some constructive advice or assistance. You have a generous quality to your nature, but you must guard carefully against giving more than you receive or you will find yourself doing without because you have helped someone else. You love people, family, home, and friends and try to be a parent to the whole human race. While you have generally stable conditions in your personal life, you may experience some problems in business affairs through a tendency to be scattering and inattentive to details. Any health problems would show as tension in the nervous system brought on by worry.

I got it Here (http://www.kabalarians.com) If you want to get an analysis of your own name aswell!

Hugs to everyone!

Luth :k

Welcome, nurse!

My mom's a nurse. I can relate to the "finally getting to have all holidays off" - she worked only part time most of my youth, but we spent many a Christmas eve joining her at her place of employment for a delicious dinner catered by McDonald's....

Not a tradition we have voluntarily continued, for some reason. ;)

Originally posted by Luthiea

I got it Here (http://www.kabalarians.com) If you want to get an analysis of your own name aswell!


Here's mine:

As Sheryl you seek change, travel, new opportunities, and new challenges. Your active, restless nature demands action and you dislike system and monotony. As you are versatile and capable, you could do any job well, although you would not like to do menial tasks. Having considerable vision, you could be adept at formulating new, more effective ways of doing things. You could organize the work of others, though in your impatience to see the job done efficiently, you would likely step right in and do it yourself. You could work well in sales and promotion, and would not be afraid to risk a gamble as the name gives you much self-confidence. You do not find contentment in the routine tasks and responsibilities that are associated with home and family or with administrative detail in the business world, so you have to guard against frustration and even moods of depression over your personal responsibilities. The restlessness this name creates could find an outlet in caustic, irritable expression. Also, the intensity of your nature could result in tension in the solar plexus causing stomach trouble and, because you take your responsibilities seriously you could experience much worry.


Woah, that is soooo wrong. :D I really don't like to travel, am terrible at sales or promotion, and I'm not known for organizing the work of others, either. Although I have been known to try to get hubby moving...

Elijah's analysis strikes me as more accurate, but I wonder if he'd agree.

Originally posted by Maeglian
A thought whispers: Time to stop!
You've gone totally over the top
writing limericks that
more than often fall flat
there's a risk that they'll majorly flop!

Since the fourth line has yet to happen I wouldn't be too concerned about the consequences warned of in the fifth. ;)

Narya,
You spider story is still giving me the shivers, and I haven't read it since shortly after you posted it. :eek:

I was initially unnerved with all the "Frodo's addicted to the Ring!" stuff, but so far I like the way EW is playing it. He may yet go "over the top," but thus far I find Frodo's relationship with the Ring subtle and real. I like Maeglian's "ebb and flow of attack and counterattack" image. I think the Ring does find "a chink in Frodo's armor", get at him through it, and then he realizes it's made progress and closes it out at that point - but the Ring just finds a new weak point to work off of. I don't think it's an addiction in the sense that Frodo pursues the control of the Ring, or prefers the Ring to life, but it is an addiction in the sense that he has an unconscious need of the Ring.

There are drugs that're physically addictive, but people can also develop a more purely emotional or personal addiction to drugs (most addictions in this day and age are a combination of the two, but in the late 1800's/early 1900's doctors could and did inadvertantly create physical addictions in their patients, and no one knew how to deal with that). I think Frodo's Ring addiction is primarily physical, in the sense that it's out of his control. He's been exposed to the agent and that creates a need for it, but it isn't something he sought out or wants in his life.

Sheryl

Sheryl, your post about addiction set me thinking about other possible RL analogies:He's been exposed to the agent and that creates a need for it, but it isn't something he sought out or wants in his life.I don't know if there are people who have willingly and knowingly become drug addicts in order for humankind or science to benefit, but instead I though of the firemen and rescue personnel who worked at the Chernobyl Nuclear Power Plant in the weeks following the disaster in 1986, and the workers who later on constructed a concrete sarchophagus around that plant. These people exposed themselves to extreme radiation and significant health risk over some time, in order to help limit the disaster and save people, land and crops from being damaged or destroyed by radiation from the plant. In a way, I think this may to a certain extent serve as a RL parallell to what Frodo willingly is exposing himself to.I think Frodo's Ring addiction is primarily physical, in the sense that it's out of his control. The scary part is that the Ring does not only equal the chemical/narcotic substance that creates the unwanted physical addiction. Instead it equals a combination of both that substance AND the pusher who wants the user to get addicted and keep using more and paying more, and who is willing to use any trick and method to get his poor victim into that state..... :(

~~~~~~~~~~

Addiction can come in less serious forms, of course. Hopefully, some of the less dangerous ones are addiction to spoilers and limericks: :rolleyes:

I’m so anxious, in fact I burn
to be spoiled about Fro in “Return”.
Wheel of fire, CU,
the forced march; - is it true
those are all in? Oh, when will we learn?

Originally posted by Maeglian
Possible RotK spoiler

*

*


Then again, they've given the picture of desperate Sam brandishing Sting and using the phial to fend off Shelob a rather indifferent caption too: Sam uses Galadriel's gift to light the way. :rolleyes:





*

*

End possible RotK spoiler



I always take those pre-release picture captions with a grain of salt. Wonder if they puposely make them misleading, or if the person who writes them is guessing sometimes? My favorite was a pre-FotR release of one of the Caradhras pics Blossom has in her gif--of Frodo's face when he's looking up at Boromir. The caption was, "Frodo gazes in wonder at the mountains." :D :D When I watched the movie and saw what was really going on there, that old caption just cracked me up. Should be something more like, "Frodo thinks, 'Hey... Gimme back my Ring, you...!' " :D While that gif was loading, I was watching the individual frames download, and saw that Frodo's hand really moves when he grabs for the Ring--it's a blur on the single frame, so was moving fast!

Thanks for that gif, Blossom--and if you can't get the food scene from TGS to work, don't worry about it. It was just a suggestion--which I think the other person who requested it (can't remember who that was :o ) would agree with. Do whatever looks interesting to you :) ! (Another one that's been mentioned as a possible Fro-shadowing is when Mark's girl-cousin falls through the ice and others at the pond hold him back from going to her. I'd have to watch the movie again to really remember it.)



According to IMDB, it was an episode called "The True Test" (episode # 5.8).
I don't know whether that means season 5 or 8, since I'm unfamiliar with the show, apart from having seen that one particular episode.
My guess would be season 5, episode 8. So probably not there yet. But sometimes when a TV series starts getting released on DVD, the next seasons follow fairly quickly. I also found two VHS's of particular episodes available, but "The True Test" wasn't mentioned--I thought one of the VHS's should have had it, though, as the names of the episodes were so appropriate: "Every Mother's Son" and "Doll's Eyes." :p

Kinda off-topic, but it was brought up here ;) : On that name analysis site--of course, I have to "nose around" to see what it's all about. It involves a numerology system devised by a Canadian who died in the 1960's; there's an entire philosophy that revolves around it which, of course, you can find a little info about on this website. But to get really into it, you have to take their "courses," which I think I'll pass up ;) . BTW, I tried both my birth name--Gertrude--and the name I've always gone by and which has been my legal name for some years now--Trudy--and found that either of them carry a lot of disappointment and unhappiness in life, so guess I can't win :( . This group's solution would be for me to change my name--with the caveat that I contact them first, because it's a very complicated process to choose just the right name. :rolleyes:


Fascinating discussion on the addiction angle. The talk about physical addiction made me think of the Ring's actual physical effect--that is, stopping or slowing the aging process. I wonder if that could be something the bearer might become "attached to" also?

A very illuminating discussion. And nicely illustrated. :cool:

Re: addictions. According to an old cranky theory, LoTR is a "literary drug" of sorts, addictive and personality deforming :p. Perhaps, EJW should have indulged in reading the book if only to learn how does it feel to be mentally--rather than physically--addicted to something overwhelmingly evil :D.

Has anyone yet compared Frodo and Bilbo's relationship with the ring? I'm thinking of Bilbo's FOTR "it's mine..." in Bag End and "my old ring.." in Rivendell scenes.

Interesting thought about the addiction to the slow-aging factor.
IMO Movie Bilbo seemed more amused than upset that age had "finally caught up with" him.

I wonder if he had full insight (in the way that Gandalf did and G informed Frodo) into the reason for the previous "prolonging his life, delaying old age" and the later "finally caught up with" him. Do we assume that's obvious?

On the one hand "my old ring" seems trivial, like finding an old possession you liked, but later he apologizes for causing Frodo to "carry this burden" (granted the expoding Bilbo was revealing to them both).

Well I hope this hasn't already all been said. I haven't had the chance to read all the previous posts (but am enjoying what I have read).

The talk about physical addiction made me think of the Ring's actual physical effect--that is, stopping or slowing the aging process. I wonder if that could be something the bearer might become "attached to" also?....how does it feel to be mentally--rather than physically--addicted to something overwhelmingly evil I'll admit right away that I've never read "The picture of Dorian Grey", only summaries of it, comments to it, plus an Oscar Wilde biography. Yet the two quotes above really reminded me of Dorian:

"Addicted" to compulsory, evil, immoral deeds; - "rewarded" by seemingly everlasting youth and good looks........ Oh yes, I can absolutely see that the latter could help fuel the continued penchant for the former.

(Not that eternal good looks in any way describes Gollum, of course :D )


Is it known what impulses Tolkien drew on in relation to the slowing-down-the-aging process? Could he have been influenced by Wilde, or was Wilde still anathema in the 30's?

Are there other likely parallells?

Youth, beauty and wealth resulting from or as "reward" for evil magicks is a common fairy and folk tale element, I suppose.


Edit:
Nurse, we were simul-posting. :) I don't think it's totally obvious from the film how much Bilbo knew or guessed. But it's implicit in linking Bilbo's Ring obsession, restlessness and his "feeling stretched".... I'd be surprised if Bilbo hadn't made the connection himself about the Ring slowing his aging process towards the end of his stay in the Shire , and later in Rivendell, even if noone had told him outright.

It does seems an equally interesting question how much actually *knowing* what the Ring is and what it can do would impact the bearer's mind and reactions. Bilbo think's it's just a useful and beautiful trinket during most of *his* long ownership, while Film!Frodo learns almost from the get-go that it is The One Ring and what its powers are.

Hi Faculty and welcome to Nurse ( are we getting into a RL medical theme here???)

well I am still alive Ainon, but RL has meant an extended absence. It's so bad that I am sittting at the computer in the lounge at Seattle airport waiting to get back to London...and what's a girl to do, with time on her hands but try and catch up with 20+ pages of eloquent discourse...oh, and the limericks too ;)

my apologies for not having anything profound to say. It will take a while to ponder all the new stuff, especially as I've kept away from anything to do with ROTK, while going back to see TTT as often as I could while it is still in the theatres (and hoping each time that the sound person turns it up LOUD for the battle of Helm's deep).

I will disappear for another week or two while I get some major work out of the way (:eek: ) then I'm all ears :)

til then

viola

The reason the Ring slows aging is one of those questions that spark periodic debates among Tolkienites. The idea that's made most sense to me is that, because it holds the power of an immortal being (Sauron), some effect of that immortality is passed on to the bearer. (The theories for the invisibility are even more fun :p .)

Book-Bilbo never made the connection (or, at least, never admitted it), because, as Gandalf says to Frodo, he always considered his long, healthy life to be of his own doing. IMHO, this is exactly how Bilbo would look at it--it's completely in character for him. And I think the book/movie incarnations of Bilbo are just about the closest in personality of any of the book/movie pairs of characters; everything Bilbo does in FotR seems "right" for book-Bilbo, too, at least with the added insights of the SE. I wouldn't be surprised if Bilbo would have been amused at his quick aging--simply because he'd been able to hold it off for so long (all by his own doing, of course :p ).

As Maeg said, the audience easily "connects the dots" to see that the Ring has caused all this, but, well, Bilbo's Bilbo, and--at least in the book--he never admits the Ring had anything to do with his longevity.

This next week's going to be so busy that I went ahead and posted the June updates for my website tonight, even though I didn't get as much done as I'd hoped. I did get one serving of crebain dished up--you can find it by clicking here (http://www.members.tripod.com/afewwords_tgs/id174.htm), but that's the only way you can find it, because it's not linked to any other pages on the site. (The only other way to get there is by typing the exact URL into your browser; you can bookmark it, though.) This keeps it as private as possible, and hopefully below the radar of the amazon.com associate police :rolleyes: .

I haven't had time to do a "public" LotR page this month, so the only other Elijah-related page is a scene from Oliver Twist--ainon, I think it's the one you suggested :) : "A complex Dodger?" (http://www.members.tripod.com/afewwords_tgs/id173.htm)

Also a new Tolkien essay, but it's book-related.

I'm staying up (way too) late tonight to get this all taken care of, because the next couple of days I'm going to be doing some hardware work on my computer and don't expect to be "on the boards."

Viola, thanks for dropping in to let us know you're still around :) .

Tg, thank you so much for updating your site. I love your screen caps. I won't tell anyone about your unlinked pages, no matter how many you are eventually forced to post so that we Faculty members can analyze each moment in the required depth. Some sacrifices must be made in order to promote scholarly research, and if flying under the radar is one of these, so be it. *setting up radar jamming equipment in hopes of getting more sequences to analyze and appreciate in excrutiating, not that it would ever be that, detail.*

I'm so pleased with your choice of Dodger pics to post first. That's one of my favorite scenes, along with the Nancy betrayal scene. My copy of Oliver Twist was rented through the library, and was so worn that many of these subtle facial expressions don't come across. Very lovely work. I appreciate your posted pics tremendously.

I also interpreted Bilbo's expression about age catching up with him as weary, amused, and accepting. I figure you don't get to be 129 years old without being accepting! Yes, there may also be an element of self-deception going on about Bilbo attributing his age to his own constitution (certainly in the book), but again, if you're 129, I think you're allowed to hold to whatever view about your life that you want to! You're earned it at that point.

Re: the Ring and addiction vs. possession, neat discussion! I believe EW and PJ are talking in shorthand for the interviews and using the term "addiction" to get across the general idea. I fully expect the performance itself to be nuanced and satisfying.

Thanks for the Caradhras gif, Blossom! Love that bit. And thank you, deluby, for the news link. I never know what's on TV myself (I'm an internet surfer vs a TV watcher), so I appreciate the alert. Now, if only I could figure out how to make my VCR work (I lost the ability to time-record programs when I added my DVD to the setup, don't know why. It must have something do do with cables. I'm lost. *sigh*)

Welcome, nurse! We have a tradition of nursing in my mother's family, at least one per generation going back to our roots in Germany. They seem to be a vigorous, hearty breed, focused and efficient in a crisis, and danged tough. Hats off to you healer folk!

I simply had to acknowledge Tgshaw's groundbreaking contribution to the Faculty's TTT research project by adding something cryptic to my sig :). Hint: "mimpi" means "dream."

Maeglian--I doubt that Tolkien was influenced by Wilde in any sense whatsoever. At least, his way of writing light comedy was not :D. On the other hand, movie!Gollum does indeed look like "The Picture of Frodo Baggins" although his role in the story is essentially different.

ainon trouts Brunhild

That's Malay!Frodo, mind you. :p :)


tg, those caps are lovely. :k Yes, that's the Dodger I asked for, thank you very much, although my reasons were for the very shallow fact that that's a nice firelit froshadowing for Frodo in FotR. ;) Trust you to track down a deeper and more poignant meaning to it. :)

The Frodo dream bit looks so, so much angstier in slideshow screencap format. Sniff.



Mariol
Re: the Ring and addiction vs. possession, neat discussion! I believe EW and PJ are talking in shorthand for the interviews and using the term "addiction" to get across the general idea.

I agree, mainly because I can't actually remember EW using the term to refer to his own performance as Frodo - I think it's a case of him agreeing with the interviewer when it's suggested to him? But I can remember that it's always Andy Serkis who's using the addiction analogy. Personally I prefer Andy's other analogy about how Frodo's in something like the first stage of a terminal illness and he can see in Gollum how he's going to end up.


What's really chilling about MovieRing, I think, is how fast it learns to adapt its methods of 'attack' on Frodo. It quickly learns it can't simply convince Frodo into wearing the Ring because Frodo fights it's influence; by the end of FotR, it figures it has Boromir but Frodo escapes from Boromir, so in TTT it subdues Frodo at the same time that it tries to get at Faramir. A lot of other creepy little things which all point to how determined the Ring is. And I'll bet it'll get uglier in RotK, especially since at the end of TTT Frodo was able to overcome the worst it could do at that point already. Poor Frodo. :(




Originally posted by deluby
However, there're something else that caught my eyes, does anyone see those red dots in the background? Do they look like those markers that SFX people use for adding stuff during postproduction?

Yeah, I can see that too - although I'm not happy that you made me look away from Frodo! :p The other pic looks fine to me as well, just that it's not the best angle or most photogenic moment for Frodo. :D Agree with Maeg about the icky creepiness of cobwebs, but hey, interesting to note that Frodo being a hero, has no need to worry about cobwebs getting in his hair. ;)

Great gifs, Blossom! I love how your gifs are long and usually covers a whole scene, just like watching a short video clip. Very satifying. :cool: :k

What Deluby said. Thanks Blossom. It really feels like forwarding/watching the Frodo bits on DVD. I can't begin to tell both you and deluby how much I appreciate the amount of hard work that must have gotten into all the gifs! What I so love about the expressions on Frodo's face in this scene is how familiar they are ... that's like the look on every little kid's face who has ever been bullied or belittled by the larger kid at school!

VIOLA!!!!!!! *big massive squeezy hug* Hope those trouts clear out of your way fast! :k

Hi Faculty. I was lying in bed trying unsucessfully to get some sleep when a new (at least, new to me:o ) Froshadowing suddenly hit me. So of course I had to get up and come share.;)

Spoilers for "The Faculty"







This was on the Sci-Fi channel the other night and I caught most of it. But I was thinking that the end of The Faculty sort of froshadows the end of Frodo's quest. Casey stabs the drugs in the alien's eye, and kills her and saves the world and is a hero, yay. BUT - before it dies, the alien gets him just like it got everyone else, and he's possessed too! It turns out all right since the bugs die right away, but there's a parallel to Mt. Doom here - Frodo gets to the mountain and does everything he has to do, but is possessed by evil just before the end, like Casey. In both cases, Elijah's character saves the world (well, or will save, since ROTK isn't out yet, but you know what I mean...) but (stealing from tgshaw here;)) is given just enough grace or, in the case of The Faculty, luck maybe? to complete the task - which is not the same as being spared completely, saving the world with no problem like some superhero.

I'm not expecting this to start some complex discussion and comparison of the movies or anything, but I thought it was cool.:p And sorry if someone else has pointed this out already at some point...





end spoilers




On a completely off-topic note, guess who played Miss Burke in "The Faculty"? Famke Janssen aka Jean Grey in the X-men movies!:cool: :cool:

I'm battling a cold right now, and losing, and hence am not thinking incredibly clearly at the moment...so I'm sure there are some very, erm, interesting sentence structures (and let's face it, downright crappy attempts to use the English language:rolleyes: ) scattered throughout this post. My apologies.:o

p.s. ainon, did you get my email? Because I didn't have my address book when I sent it to you so I put in your email address by memory and you haven't replied and, well, I'm paranoid.:o

Good morning!

I think I'll mostly just enjoy reading old and new posts for a while until I get somewhat up to speed (or at least until I figure out what a trout is :)) on the ongoing research of "how does he do that??!!"

You guys rock! My husband and kids were starting to roll their eyes when I spoke about Elijah and LOTR so it's really nice to have this.

tgshaw-my addition to the natural eye movement evidence (as in beginning of TTT) is in SE FOTR when Sam's having trouble sleeping outside. During that scene he actually seems to fall asleep and wake up.

See ya.

ainon--Thanks for the ikan air tawar :p. It was pretty easy to make the mistake: hanya and mimpi are Indonesian for just and dream as well.

Actually, I'm not even sure that PJ or EJW really know what exactly is happening to their Frodo. PJ has always been a very "visual" director (to the extent of neglecting the quality of the dialog altogether :p). Quite probably, he gave EJW somewhat imprecise directions and then shot as many takes as were needed to get a sufficiently striking--and ambiguously interpretable--sequence. The rest would have to be accomplished by the viewer's imagination. In particular, EJW had to rely on his previous acting experiences for minor details, which could explain the amount of "Froshadowings."

Originally posted by Brunhild
[B]ainon--Thanks for the ikan air tawar :p. It was pretty easy to make the mistake: hanya and mimpi are Indonesian for just and dream as well.

Well, it's basically almost the same language. ;) But I don't know if Indonesians would use that sentence structure. Even in Malay, it's a clumsy literal translation. Although it could be worse. :rolleyes: I'm once again reminded to be grateful that we do NOT have dubbing!

Glad you like your ikan. I did mean to also tell you I'm way impressed with your versatility with languages. :)

In particular, EJW had to rely on his previous acting experiences for minor details, which could explain the amount of "Froshadowings."

And the fact that at the end of the day, he is still the same person. :D

Btw, for all those who haven't seen X-Men2, I seriously recommend it for cool Gandalfshadowiness. The presence of Hugh Jackman as Wolverine doesn't detract from Ian McKellen LOTR research at all. Really. Not at all. Honestly. No, really. I'm not trying to gratuitously mention Hugh Jackman here. Of course not. I'm talking about Ian McKellen who plays Gandalf who means so much to Frodo. All on topic. Because I'm just very happy to see Bridget. That's all. :p

Get better soon, Bridg. :k Hey, I'm from the 'so long as the sentence sounds right the English grammar must be correct, right?' school of language, so you sound fine to me. :D I like your 'Faculty' connection. And hmm ... looks like you're right to be paranoid! :eek:


nurse -- nice observation about Frodo's eye movements in sleep. To clarify the matter about the trout, a trout is what people on the CoE and KD message boards like to slap each other with whenever there's a preceived transgression. ;) Do not ask me why a fish should be the weapon of choice (nor ask me what a trout looks like. for some odd reason, in movies actors playing expert anglers never seem to actually catch the darn trout to show to the audience). I suppose such fishy custom is remotely better than the on-line folks I know who liked to whip each other with wet noodles. That was ... disturbing. :o


Now that I've shared my culinary bit for the day, I bid you all a warm good night. :)

A few quick comments during lunch (still working on computer at home):
from nurse
...in SE FOTR when Sam's having trouble sleeping outside. During that scene he actually seems to fall asleep and wake up.
I do believe there's some "rapid eye movement" there--although I suppose that would be pretty easy to imitate :) .

ainon--Anything about being whipped with a wet noodle traces back to advice columnist Ann Landers--or was it Dear Abby?--not that it matters, the two of them being twins and all. She often told letter writers they deserved "50 lashes with a wet noodle" for something they'd done that was stupid but not really bad.

Bridget--I'd thought about the "saving the world" angle in The Faculty, but hadn't caught the part about Casey also being "infected" at the end. Interesting.

from Brunhild
Actually, I'm not even sure that PJ or EJW really know what exactly is happening to their Frodo.
Of course not, that's the whole idea behind the micro-expression theory ;) --much of the emotional content is subconscious (on EJW's part, anyway :rolleyes: ).

And I don't know how I missed commenting on this the last time I posted :p :
Originally posted by Brunhild
Re: addictions. According to an old cranky theory, LoTR is a "literary drug" of sorts, addictive and personality deforming :p. Perhaps, EJW should have indulged in reading the book if only to learn how does it feel to be mentally--rather than physically--addicted to something overwhelmingly evil :D.
Yep, you know us Catholics ;) . Always up for some good mind control :p .

From Brunhild
Maeglian--I doubt that Tolkien was influenced by Wilde in any sense whatsoever. (snip) On the other hand, movie!Gollum does indeed look like "The Picture of Frodo Baggins" although his role in the story is essentially different. On a serious note, I thought after I wrote that question that it'd probably be difficult to find two more different personalities than Tolkien and Wilde, from what I've read about them. Trying to come up with a link between the two, the most obvious that came to mind (apart from Oxford) was Orlando Bloom! :rolleyes: First role as a Rentboy in "Wilde" back in -97. Next role as... oh, you know. That's history. :D

(Btw, I just happened to open my Wilde biography on a totally random page, which turned out to contain a photo of one of Wilde's favourite pictures: St. Sebastian by Guido Reni...! A somewhat strange coincidence in view of various recent discussions here.......... :eek: )

On the other hand, Brunhild, your very astute "Picture of Frodo Baggins" observation gave me an idea: Someone should convince PJ to film an artsy version of Dorian Grey (with overtones of "Heavenly Creatures") starring EJW as Dorian. Since I haven't read the book I'm saying the following based on pure speculation and I don't know what I'm talking about as usual, yet when did *that* stop me?

Some benefits for all involved in the proposed project:

- PJ could prove that he can still do relative low-budget quirky and psychologically spooky films. And he could rest a bit from the over-the-top-mega-films after King Kong.

- They could re-use Gollum animation for the painting of Dorian, and for the final scenes. And if set in the right era, they could re-use all those Art Noveau Rivendell props and furniture too.

- EJW would actually get to *act* in a *film* again - that people might actually get to *see*. (Hint, hint!)

- *And* he'd get to play someone evil and without remorse and conscience, who among other things commits murder, yet has the face of an angel. The evil and malice part is exactly what he has wanted to do, and audiences have wanted to see, right? (Bonus perk: EJW with blond hair.... wonder how that would look? Perhaps they could re-use the LotR elf-wigs too!) :rolleyes:

Well, enough of that!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From ainon
Interesting to note that Frodo being a hero, has no need to worry about cobwebs getting in his hair. I noted that too.... and of course I am entirely willing to suspend disbelief and accept that Shelob didn't spin webs any higher than hobbit shoulder height, 'cause the alternative, more realistic cobweb-covered Fro would be so much more icky and equally less attractive. I'm sure the people involved in the movie never thought of that, though? ;)


Tg, thank you for your site updates. :)


Brunhild, I am way impressed with your language knowledge too.
(Foreign language text related to dreaming aobut trouts edited out ) Just testing.... :D


(((Viola)))) and (((Prim)))) too of course.... you are still here, right? :)


((((Bridget)))) Nice observation; and swift recovery! :)....nor ask me what a trout looks like. For some odd reason, in movies actors playing expert anglers never seem to actually catch the darn trout to show to the audience. Ah! Maeg to the rescue: Here's a pic of a good-sized trout. Caught in rivers or lakes. Tastes fabulous if oven-baked, with sour cream. Anyway...... :o Trout for your inspection and possible use on the boards (http://www.sande-camping.no/images/oerretfiske/oerret.htm)

tgshaw--Another old cranky theory. Now with theological flavour ;). Could it be that hobbits were Manichæans? Their rigorous dichotomy between Good and Evil is pretty Manichæan. On the other hand, the real Manichæans were gnostics while hobbits were apparently happy agnostics.:rolleyes: No way to put this on topic unless EJW is a clandestine Catharist :D.

From Maeglian
I just happened to open my Wilde biography on a totally random page, which turned out to contain a photo of one of Wilde's favourite pictures: St. Sebastian by Guido Reni...!
I should have known better than to post Reni's picture here. Hoping that it would pass for a simple joke about men in loincloths was a gross underestimation of the Faculty's research potenial :D. Excuse me while I slap myself with that fresh Norwegian trout :p.

From Maeglian
Someone should convince PJ to film an artsy version of Dorian Gray (with overtones of "Heavenly Creatures") starring EJW as Dorian.
There was a campy version of The Picture of Dorian Gray starring Helmut Berger in the early seventies. (Funnily enough, Berger was also in Ash Wednesday with Elizabeth Taylor :rolleyes:.) I'm not sure that I'd like to see anything even remotely similar with EJW. There would be no erotic fanfic, however. If people feel like writing slash about Frodo, they'd probably turn Dorian into a saintly hermit :D.

And, Maeglian, why would anyone dream about trout? ;)

OK, now I'm not only impressed, I'm mostly-scared-and-also-impressed! :eek: But anyway, with the recent discussions here, I'd say possible dreams were likely to contain either trout, spiders or EJW. Somehow trout seemed the *safe* subject of the 3. :D

I must admit, in posting that Dorian thing I was worrying slightly that it might open the whole slash subject again. But.... the book is literature, FGS, so I decided to post it. :) Still, I'm probably all in favour of your saintly-hermit-thinking-only-of-the-hereafter-and-of-good-deeds-aplenty-before-that fic adaption. Would be a true challenge, at any rate.

Originally posted by Brunhild
tgshaw--Another old cranky theory. Now with theological flavour ;). Could it be that hobbits were Manichæans? Their rigorous dichotomy between Good and Evil is pretty Manichæan. On the other hand, the real Manichæans were gnostics while hobbits were apparently happy agnostics.:rolleyes: No way to put this on topic unless EJW is a clandestine Catharist :D.

O-M-G/E !! The Mythopoeic Society email discussion group I supposedly belong to (I haven't been keeping up lately, to put it mildly) got into a discussion some months back on the question "Was Tolkien a Manichean?" It ended up so far off-topic the list moderator had to shut us up :rolleyes: . Good discussion, though. Short answer: No :p ! (I agree with Shippey that Tolkien's view of evil didn't rely on duality but on paradox. :cool: )


from Maeg
I noted that too.... and of course I am entirely willing to suspend disbelief and accept that Shelob didn't spin webs any higher than hobbit shoulder height, 'cause the alternative, more realistic cobweb-covered Fro would be so much more icky and equally less attractive. I'm sure the people involved in the movie never thought of that, though?
I'm not at home so am without my book at the moment, but IIRC the strands of Shelob's web were as thick as ropes and terribly strong--Sam's Numenorean sword wouldn't cut through them, but Sting did. Those wimpy strings in the pic make it look as though she uses them to catch flies :confused: . Of course, they could be the strands that spring back when her real web is cut through--the book's pretty graphic about them, too. Or maybe she sublets her side-tunnels to smaller spiders :p ?

tgshaw--What can I say? Only that Tolkienite discussions are a little bit repetitive :D :). In principle, hobbits being Manichæans wouldn't imply anything about Tolkien himself; after all, St Augustin lived in the Manichæan community in Rome :rolleyes:.

Another old cranky theory, though. How do we know that the story told in the Red Book is true? By the time when it was completed, its veracity could have been asserted only by Sam, Merry and Pippin, the last two being not particularly trustworthy lads ;). And then there's Tolkien insisting that there's no allegory in LoTR--the lady doth protest too much, methinks. So what if the eminent statesman and agrarian Samwise Gamgee had actually written an allegoric novel about the tribulations of his youth? What if there had been no Bilbo, Frodo or Gollum but just Gamgee's own complicated personality with a desire for adventure (B), a penchant for spiritual trials (F), and a darker, murderous side beneath (G)? What if Tolkien--a contemporary Pierre Menard--had re-written this masterpiece of magical psychologism word by word only to come up with a behemoth fantasy novel for the insensitive and uncomprehending Big Folk? :GiocondaSmiley: I'm so not giving anyone ideas for fanfic!

Re: Dorians. According to imdb.com there's a project in progress to make a film adaptation of The Confederacy of Dunces by John K. Toole. If EJW really wishes to do something wacky about his career, he may audition for the role of Dorian Green, the lovely gay character there. The part must be very small and completely innocent. Also, book-Dorian is introduced in a scene that might be pretty cool to watch: Neatly dressed, he sits at a bar chain-smoking Salems and drinking frozen Daiquiris in gulps :D.

Hope to be back later in the day, but wanted to post this before I ran off to work, since the book's at home. What those cobwebs were really like :p (I've ended up quoting more than I planned to, because it's such good Frodo-as-hero stuff :) , some of which will hopefully make it into the movie):


RotK-but-really-the-end-of-TTT-book-spoiler








Panting, yearning for a roofless place, they flung themselves forward; and then in amazement they staggered, tumbling back. The outlet was blocked with some barrier, but not of stone: soft and yielding it seemed, and yet strong and impervious; air filtered through, but not a glimmer of any light. Once more they charged and were hurled back.

Holding aloft the Phial Frodo looked and before him he saw a greyness which the radiance of the star-glass did not pierce and did not illuminate, as if it were a shadow that being cast by no light, no light could dissipate. Across the width and height of the tunnel a vast web was spun, orderly as the web of some huge spider, but denser-woven and far greater, and each thread was as thick as a rope.

Sam laughed grimly. 'Cobwebs!' he said. 'Is that all? Cobwebs! But what a spider! Have at 'em, down with 'em!'

In a fury he hewed at them with his sword, but the thread that he struck did not break. It gave a little and then sprang back like a plucked bowstring, turning the blade and tossing up both sword and arm. Three times Sam struck with all his force, and at last one single cord of all the countless cords snapped and twisted, curling and whipping through the air. One end of it lashed Sam's hand, and he cried out in pain, starting back and drawing his hand across his mouth.

......[Frodo said] 'Come! Let us see what Sting can do. It is an elven-blade. There were webs of horror in the dark ravines of Beleriand where it was forged. But you must be the guard and hold back the eyes. Here, take the star-glass. Do not be afraid. Hold it up and watch!'

Then Frodo stepped up to the great grey net, and hewed it with a wide sweeping stroke, drawing the bitter edge swiftly across a ladder of close-strung cords, and at once springing away. The blue-gleaming blade shore through them like a scythe through grass, and they leaped and writhed and then hung loose. A great rent was made.

Stroke after stroke he dealt, until at last all the web within his reach was shattered, and the upper portion blew and swayed like a loose veil in the incoming wind. The trap was broken.










End of RotK-but-really-the-end-of-TTT-book-spoiler

(Maeg is striving to make notes of things to look up and study further at the earliest opportunity. Manichæans, definitely. Catharists - vague recollection of those, together with some random French names and places - better investigate. Pierre Menard; - have read the previous link, still somewhat confused. :o )


Brunhild, about your latest theory, are you saying that nothing happened and Sam made it all up, splitting his various character traits into separate fictional persons, and that the Red book is an allegory of whatever nature-and-garden preservation message Sam wanted to stress in his old age? Wouldn't that be discovered when hobbits made contact with the outside world? :D Or are you really saying…. There are no hobbits? :eek: Perhaps you’re really indicating that Sam carried out the quest and had the adventures all by himself, yet for some reason presented himself as various separate characters in his writing? Or are you in fact a follower of the Wachowski brothers, saying that nothing is real at all? Sam is really in a coma, just imagining that he's writing the Red Book about adventures he thinks he had that really never happened with people and hobbits that never existed?? :eek: :confused: :eek: ( Maeg feels threatening headache approaching….. )


Tg, thanks from the Shelob’s web quote from the book. From the pictures we've seen and knowing PJ, I think Movie!Shelob will at least also imbue her webs with a certain clingy stickyness, maybe in addition to other ick-inducing traits. Or she has, in fact, sublet parts of the lair to relatives like you suggested. After all, that lair *is* a pretty lonely place!


And THANK YOU for letting me use my new avatar! :k It's just so *right* and angsty and beautiful, I couldn't *bear* to think it would disappear and not be here for me to see every day.....
So, to come up with some words more or less (probably less) fitting the avatar, and looking back on our recent discussion about what the Ring does to the mind of its bearer (ie. the mental addiction issue), here are some poor Maeg-style limericks on the impact the Ring has on the bearer's mind:

The Ring displays letters of fire
that speak of the Dark Lord's desire:
To enslave, rule and bind
every soul, body, mind; -
this is all he - or you! - would require.

It is beautiful, golden, it sings
about power and grandeur, but things
get quite complex because
the Dark Lord and his force
keep insisting it's his Ring of rings!

If you use the One Ring of Power,
you could expand the conquered Dark Tower!
Raise huge armies! - Yet mood-wise,
what would grow more is the size
of your hatred, spite, anger and glower.

Still, holding and petting your treasure,
your preciousss, gives tremendous pleasure
and too-intense delight…..
though your soul leaves the light
for dark night faster than one can measure.

Its shining enchantment will sing
such sweet promises! And the Ring
grants longevity, stealth; -
but it seems mental health
soon is the most invisible thing.


Rest absolutely assured, those were my *very* last limericks in here. :o :D It's out of my system now.

Wow! :notworthy:

(((Maeglian)))

P.S. - Love the new avatar :cool:

Maeglian--IIRC, the cranky theory was that Samwise Gamgee had written the book inventing much of the "outside world" in the process. When hobbits made contact with the "real" outside world, there'd be no elves, orcs, wizards--just plain unremarkable humans :D. The entire story was an intricate allegory of growing up and fighting off personal demons. (Recall that Sam did become Mayor, so he--the only one of the four Ringbearers--should have had a certain taste for power ;).) We'll probably never know why Sam decided to disguise his personality crises (and possible actual adventures and misdemeanours :eek: ) in this manner because the Red Book is the only surviving piece of the great hobbit literature... OTOH, your "variations on the theme" are equally good :cool:. And the limericks are even better and... crankier ;).

Re: Pierre Menard. A quasi-on-topic example to one of the innumerable innuendos in this Borges story: There's a considerable difference between JRR Tolkien, a mid-twentieth century Oxford professor and WWI veteran, writing "I will take the Ring, though I do not know the way," and EJ Wood, a young contemporary actor, saying the very same thing in a Hollywood blockbuster. (Oversimplifying, one could say that Tolkien's pronouncement was solemn while EJW's was angsty.) In other words, the message carried by a phrase depends on the context and on the personality of the speaker, to say nothing of the audience.

Originally posted by Brunhild
(Recall that Sam did become Mayor, so he--the only one of the four Ringbearers--should have had a certain taste for power ;).)
But do we really know that Sam became mayor :confused: if he made up everything else?

There are so many variations on this idea (and still new ones being spun) that I hesitate to get into them in this thread--they'd probably belong in the Green Dragon. The interesting thing is that they all depend on The Red Book being--at some level--real :) . In the theory presented by Brunhild, Tolkien would still be correct in saying that he hadn't written an allegory ;) .

And the limericks are even better and... crankier ;).
This is probably a stupid question :o , but what's the definition of "cranky" being used in regard to these theories, etc.? To me, cranky means irritable, as in "JRRT was a cranky old codger," or, "The baby always gets cranky right before his nap." But that meaning doesn't seem to fit here. :confused:

Edit: Besides the definition I'm used to, the dictionary also lists a definition for cranky that specifically refers to machinery: loose or liable to break down. Is that where the meaning here is coming from? I have to admit I'm not familiar with that usage--someone who works with machinery probably would be.

tgshaw--Of course, all these theories presuppose that the Red Book is real; they are Tolkienite theories all right. Did I say that they are absolutely not mine? :) (A More Or Less Serious Comment: JRRT has kindly provided a formulation for my general attitude towards LoTR: "The invention of languages is the foundation. The 'stories' were made rather to provide a world for the languages than the reverse.")

Merriam-Webster online gives the following definitions of "cranky":
1 a : given to fretful fussiness : readily angered when opposed : CROTCHETY b : marked by eccentricity
2 : full of twists and turns : TORTUOUS <a cranky road>
3 : working erratically : UNPREDICTABLE <a cranky old tractor>
4 dialect : CRAZY, IMBECILE
I guess that 1b, 2, 3, and 4 can be applied to the theories I've been entertaining the Faculty with ;). 1a would have fit some defenders of such theories whom I used to know in the old times :p.

In a desperate attempt to get back on topic, let me hastily add that the word "cranky" has nothing to do with EJW :D.

Love the limerick!

Where can I find the bibliography for this thread? ;)

Originally posted by nurse
Has anyone yet compared Frodo and Bilbo's relationship with the ring? I'm thinking of Bilbo's FOTR "it's mine..." in Bag End and "my old ring.." in Rivendell scenes.

I think you said you got here through tg's site, yes? She's got a series of pics with analysis, "The Two Ringbearers" (I think it's called), and an essay on how the Ring came between Frodo and Bilbo that're both cool.

Trouting originated in a Monty Python skit (I am of the opinion that the fish in the skit wasn't a trout, however I have only seen a tiny copy over the Internet so could be wrong there).

Originally posted by Maeglian
Here's a pic of a good-sized trout. Caught in rivers or lakes. Tastes fabulous if oven-baked, with sour cream.

I'd like that recipe, Maeg. :)

And I hope you're wrong about being wrung out of limericks.

I'm going with tg's theory that Shelob sublets.

originally posted by Brunhild
Oversimplifying, one could say that Tolkien's pronouncement was solemn while EJW's was angsty.

Nice summary - I think it applies to more than just that one line. ;)

I thought Brunhild's use of "crank" in her latest posts was roughly synonymous to "crackpot" - somewhere I've heard the phrase "that old crank" used to refer to someone who isn't grouchy but is known for crazed theories.

And, just to add to nurse's confusion, I will offer some more place names I ran across, all from Indiana. The towns or villages of Booger Holler (my favorite), Gnaw Bone, Scarce O'Fat Ridge, Milk-Sick Bottoms, and Loogootee. Loogootee sounds like something Dr. Seuss came up with, but it's actually a combination of two names, Lowe and Gootee.

The State Highway Commission tried to change the name of Gnaw Bone to West Point, but the citizens would have none of it. Some guys in North Dakota could learn something there. There's also a Santa Claus, a town with a population of 300 that gets about one million pieces of mail a year. People send stuff there in bulk to get the Santa Claus cancellation - they do the same thing in Loveland, Colorado around Valentine's day.

I've also discovered that there were never any real wolverines in Michigan, the Wolverine state. I'm devastated.

Sheryl

edit:

Forgot to mention that I liked your Faculty Froshadowing, Bridget. I may have to break down and re-rent that movie sometime. Your interpretation adds a nice angsty edge somehow.

[subliminal for tgshaw] Watch Shawshank Redemption! Watch Shawshank Redemption![/subliminal for tgshaw]

:D

Sheryl

Originally posted by shilohmm
[subliminal for tgshaw] Watch Shawshank Redemption! Watch Shawshank Redemption![/subliminal for tgshaw]

Thanks Sheryl. Your check's in the mail.

;) ;) :D

Re Brunhild's theory (or rather, the theory that isn't Brunhild's;)): I'm not sure I quite understand it, but I'm thinking that if we accept that theory, the Sam writing the book would be totally different than the Sam that appears in the book. Author Sam would have had to understand Frodo and Gollum a lot better than I think he did - if they weren't real, he would have at least had to understand the type of people that they *would* be if they *did* exist. I'm not going to go into this in detail here either, but I will say that Bilbo, at least, would have had to exist - otherwise who would have taught Sam his letters?:p

ainon: I wonder if Elijah likes comic books...:D

I think the whole 'Sam writing the red book' discussion would be great for a thread in the Green Dragon - lots of possibilities for existential confusion and falling down the rabbit hole, and I'd be happy to engage in literary confabulation there. Because, for all we know, Frodo wrote the whole darn thing, and Sam only took credit for finishing it later so Rosie would look up to him 'cause he'd larned his letters... :D :D Yup, definitely Green Dragon material... ;)

Oh, and I know a crank when I see one. :p

Great limericks, Maeg! Don't feel you need to stop!

tg, thanks for the spider-web references. PJ's web-threads definitely look thinner, and slimier/stickier than Tolk's describes, but I think that will work very well in the movie. JRR was using the sheer size of the web, I believe, to help us understand the sheer size of Shelob - PJ will SHOW us Shelob, so we only need to be absolutely appalled and repelled by the webs she spins. Besides, a big part of what makes spider webs so absolutely disgusting to get entangled in is their ethereal stickiness, which both clings and floats about, so there is no way to escape it....

[QUOTE]Originally posted by shilohmm


I think you said you got here through tg's site, yes? She's got a series of pics with analysis, "The Two Ringbearers" (I think it's called), and an essay on how the Ring came between Frodo and Bilbo that're both cool.

Trouting originated in a Monty Python skit.

[end quote] I'm on a learning curve here :)

Thanks for the site tip, I'll check it out.

Anybody take their kids to Veggietales Jonah movie? One of the movie Ninevites big sins was fish slapping. I don't remember if the type of fish was mentioned.

As far as Monty Python, I thought it was "an halibut!". Or was that a different skit?

From Bridget
... the Sam writing the book would be totally different than the Sam that appears in the book.
Precisely :cool:. Samwise the Author was Frodo and Bilbo and Gollum and Sam and... JRRT :D. And don't forget that the Ring was a symbolic invention of his :p. I mean, why shouldn't hobbits be as good at objectifying ontological notions as the 7th century Chinese who knocked out Tao Te Ching :p :). And I'm quite sure that I don't understand this theory at all...

Steering this vaguely on topic, the split personality business may be a nice film project for a talented actor. A long time ago, Robert Sheckley, the great man of bizarre SciFi, wrote a story The Four Humours and then expanded it to a novel The Alchemical Marriage of Alistair Compton. The plot revolved around a man trying to regain the missing parts of his personality that had been split off and put into separate artificial bodies. A film adaptation should star the same actor in the four roles playing different "humours" (choleric, sanguine, phlegmatic, melancholic) with but a slight change in appearance (e.g., brown, green, gray, and blue contacts, respectively ;)).

I've given Bridget's Faculty-LoTR comparison some thought and got confused. So, if the Very Thirsty Monster were equated to Sauron infecting everyone with his rings, then wouldn't it follow that the best weapon against the bastard was in fact pipeweed? And wasn't it pipeweed that brought the downfall of Saruman by making him weakly and rainbowy? Finally, shall we expect Frolijah to blow some deadly smoke into the gaping Eye in RoTK? :D :D. Lo, do I see a crank in the mirror? :p

Brunhild, I think where the caffeine/pipeweed parallel falls down is that the concentrated caffeine, being a diuretic, actually does kill the pretty-much-all-water aliens, while I don't know of any evidence that blowing pipeweed into the Lidless Eye would actually destroy Sauron (although it could be mighty irritating, with him not being able to blink and all :rolleyes: ). It would take too long for lung cancer or heart disease to set in--he'd already have Middle-earth under his control. Hmmm.... If Barad-dur could really be saturated with the stuff, maybe he could be rendered so mellow, he wouldn't care about world domination :p .

(Kinda off-topic but it was so funny and we are talking about hobbits' drugs of choice: When I was last visiting my mom, the restaurant we ate at had mushrooms listed as an appetizer--maybe breaded, sauteed, I don't remember--but on the menu they were called 'shrooms :D :D . I had to explain to my mom why I thought this was so funny--I don't know if the person who put the menu together was just small-town naive and thought it was a cute way to say "mushrooms" or a fellow refugee from the 60's making an in-joke that wouldn't be understood by the small-town naive people eating at the restaurant. [For benefit of the young'uns here--'shrooms was the normal way of referring to "mind-altering" mushrooms during that era. One of the many reasons LotR became popular then was certain people identifying with a race that has a predilection for 'shrooms and pipe"weed" :p .] )

The Four Humours reminds me of a play the drama department produced when I was in college, called Hamlet ESP, which used the original text but had the different parts of Hamlet's personality played by different people--based on the idea that he was, shall we say, a bit "mentally confused"? IMHO, either one would be a good vehicle for a versatile actor. (How about an actually good remake of Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde?)

I love talking about The Red Book, but am feeling kind of constricted about it in a thread about Elijah Wood (maybe he read The Red Book instead of LotR ;) ). So I took up what's been suggested a few times here and started a new thread at the Green Dragon. Have at it ! :p : The Red Book (http://www.khazaddum.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2013)

Brunchild, Tg, Maeg, Bridget, Narya - fascinating theories re The Red Book . Ditto regarding Bridget's 'Faculty' froshadowing.

Nurse - you never know which direction the conversation will take here!:) Hope Sheryl hasn't :confused: you further with her place-names - those are great, Sheryl. I like Booger Holler too! And Gnaw Bone??? I think our dog, Holly, might like to go there!:)

Re Shelob's cobwebs. I want to see actual thick-as-rope HUGE cobwebs across the tunnel opening! I want to see Frodo slice Sting through them like a hot knife through butter! I want to see brave, determined, Frodo cut a way out of the darkness for him and Sam, before.... before... I can hardly bear to think of the next bit!!!:eek: Yet I am SO looking forward to it!:)

Maeg - keep those Limericks coming.

Tg - Thank you, thank you, for those terrific TT 'Gandalf' and 'Just a Dream' caps on your site. You realize I'll be tempted to make them into gifs?! Talking about gifs - The Good Son 'Food' one is ready at last - over 400 caps to go through for that one - but I'm fairly happy with it now. Trouble is, I just tried to upload it to my IM account so I could post the link here, and it's not happening. For some reason it won't upload to my images page. I have sent IM a message and am awaiting their reply. But I'll try it again later - it may work then. I am working on the 'Holding Mark back' one you mentioned at the moment, and another one I thought might be worth a go at - on the clifftop, when Mark tries to tell his Aunt that Henry tried to kill his sister, and she slaps him. Great performance from Elijah in this film.

I'm sure I didn't imagine or dream this,:confused: but I was scrolling though the TV teletext service last night (as you do) and there was an item about LOTR being made into an £8m West End musical! They are to begin casting next spring, and it's due to open in London in 2005. A spokesman said, 'It's going to be like nothing the West End has seen before.'

What's that? Elijah can't sing! Waaagghh!!! :(

I mean, I wish them luck, but for me - There IS no other Frodo!:)

Thanks a lot to whoever posted that quote from PJ a few pages back (sorry can't remember who it was) about working with Elijah. He sounds so positive and enthusiastic and well... likeable!:)

Btw, I tend to agree with Sheryl's definition of Cranky (re Maeg's limericks) as 'Crackpot.' I know it also means 'Grumpy' but I'm sure Maeg is more of a crackpot - in the nicest, most affectionate sense of the word! - than a grump!:D I think I should go before that Trout comes flying across from Maeg - Oh, and Maeg, that IS a beautiful avatar.:)

Bye for now.

Edit: Happy to report the 'Food' gif is now working. I've had to downsize it to get it to load onto IM, but at least it's there now. Here's the link:
http://www.imagemagician.com/images/blossom/FoodGS.gif

Hi! Just popping in for a flying visit. Thanks for 'The Good Son' gif, Blossom - I'd forgotten all about that scene and its not long since I actually watched that film. He was such a gifted child:)

I'm afraid its true about the LOTR musical - I couldn't believe it when I read it! Sounds like they'll just be jumping on the bandwagon after the enormous success of PJ's films. And there's no way I would ever want to watch somebody else pretending to be Frodo. There's only one:(

Re PJ's comments - I believe he is genuinely very fond of Elijah. He always talks about him in such an affectionate and admiring way. I remeber when he was once asked to sum up each of the main LOTR actors with just one word, for Lij he just said 'wonderful'. :)

Originally posted by Maeglian
But anyway, with the recent discussions here, I'd say possible dreams were likely to contain either trout, spiders or EJW. Somehow trout seemed the *safe* subject of the 3. :D

:eek: I can't resist: made me think of EJW/Frodo and the struggle to do what he was destined to do, and how most of my (male) acquaintances could take leaf out of his book..

what does this have to do with trouts???

(off topic topic follows)

well, we (the guys and I, and a couple of other women) went rowing on a small lake near Rotorua in NZ with the guys trailing a fishing line in the water behind us...we had a great time for about an hour, headed back to shore, only to have the guys think the line was caught on seeweed (this is a fresh water lake -sheesh) and pull it in....only to find a very LARGE fresh water trout on the end of it!!!:eek: :D

suffice it to say, the guys puffed out their chests, began reminiscing about the struggle to land the dang trout, while the women got to cook it (AFTER the photo was taken :rolleyes: )


why can't they be the like the guys in the movies (:D ) -at least Sam can cook!!


viola

sneaking off back to finish her grant application and hoping no-one noticed

Originally posted by shireling
I'm afraid its true about the LOTR musical - I couldn't believe it when I read it!
How did they get the rights :confused: ? Was it through Saul Zaentz? I'd thought he only bought the screen rights, but did he possibly buy public performance rights? The only other option I can think of--and I can hardly bear thinking about it--is that they got the rights directly from the Tolkien Estate, which is hard to imagine.

From tgshaw
If Barad-dur could really be saturated with the stuff, maybe he could be rendered so mellow, he wouldn't care about world domination :p.
Yep, it's kind of difficult to be an evil overlord if you can't help saying Wow! all the time :D.
From shireling
I believe he [PJ] is genuinely very fond of Elijah.
He genuinely owes EJW his hairy hide :). What if EJW hadn't sent that audition tape in? :eek: The subject begs for a wicked limerick dissing PJ's simultaneous fascination with King Kong and close-ups of EJW's eyes:

Monkey Eyeland

EJ Would've been greatly surprised,
Had P Jackson him so advised:
"You resemble an ape
In your manners and shape
And your eyes are indeed outsized!"

:D :D

Edit: Re: obtaining public performance rights from the Tolkien Estate. There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy. :rolleyes:

Where to begin? I think I'll begin with a ((((Faculty)))) :k


......And move directly on to LotR the musical. The *only* reason that I'm not completely reeling with horror at this, is the fact that another one of my top 3 favourite books has been made into a musical that I actually think is wonderful and that I love to both listen to and to watch (that would be Les Miserables). Still........ the mind boggles. The risk that the LotR musical will simply be cheezy beyond belief..... :eek:

However, who cares if EJW can't sing? He can sing! Somewhat! Can't he? Or he can *mime*!! I agree with Shireling and Blossom, there *is* only one Frodo. Get EJW to take that role and appear on stage in the movie wig! He *needs* that kind of stage experience. And imagine the extreme self control required for someone with his musical taste to appear in a 3 hour musical filled with swelling musical sappy or dramatic tunes...... He would build self control enough to last him his entire life long!

And Dom and Billy can reprise Merry and Pippin. Seeing that Green Dragon Drinking song live would be worth the entrance fee. :D

Brunhild, you simply *have* to go see that musical so you can give us your candid opinion about whether this venture shows sufficient respect for JRRT and his work. :D

And tg, according to the news stories Zaentz is indeed involved in the production of the musical, which probably means he has the rights to whatever artistic adaption of the book he'd care to get involved in..... Can the ballet and modern dance versions be far behind? And wouldn't the tale of Aragorn and Arwen make a wonderful opera?


Viola, I'm glad you couldn't help delurking. And with a trout story! New food for my dreams! :D :)

From Blossom
I'm sure Maeg is more of a crackpot That had me laughing for a good long time. I'm sure you're *very* right! :)

And thank you for the desperate Mark destroying food gif! :k
I think I spy 2 Froshadowing candidates there: One desperate and having to be restrained one (Moria), and one desperately and intensely hacking away at something (Shelob's webs....? Here's hoping!)


Tg, didn't you take down the "2 Ringbearers" page? I seem to recall hectic right-click-saving of pics some time ago in that connection.....


Sheryl, I'll PM you that very simple receipe as soon as I figure out what a couple of the ingredients are called in English.


Thank you all for the nice words about the limericks. :) I really feel out of ideas at the moment (perhaps the musical will give me some new ones....) but until then, Brunhild has luckily taken up the challenge. Go her! :cool:


Off to have a look at the new red book thread!

Mods, I'm very sorry to be double-posting, but I hope you'll agree this *deserves* a separate post!

Congratulations and very best wishes
on your 50th birthday, Blossom !

I hope this will be a special and memorable day!

:) :) :) :) :)

As a very small birthday token, a limerick concerning our mutual opinion about EJW and about anyone else taking on the Frodo role. (The answers to the limerick's questions can be read if highlighted.)

Will a new Frodo soon sing his heart out
in a musical where the Fro-part out-
shines Lij’s by far? No!
Won’t Frolijah’s bright star
eclipse *any* Fro-substitute from the start-out? Yes !!!

**** Happy Birthday Blossom ****

Make sure you have plenty of hankies ready ; you're at the age when adventures start. :D

Happy Birthday, Blossom!

Tried to find a cake suitable to your username, and found one with cherry blossoms...

http://www.miettecakes.com/gallery/cherry_blossom.jpg

Have a great day!:)

Just thought I'd send the actual article re 'the musical':

"The Lord Of The Rings is to be turned into the West End's most expensive musical in a lavish £8 million production.

The adaptation of JRR Tolkien's famous trilogy will open in London in spring 2005.

Producers promised it would be the most spectacular production ever staged. Its budget is £1.5 million more than the capital's current most costly musical, Chitty Chitty Bang Bang.

"This will be like nothing the West End has ever seen before," said producer Kevin Wallace.

"We are setting out to re-create Tolkien's fantasy world on the stage and it will have a real sense of wonder and awe for the audience. To do justice to the Lord Of The Rings you have to pull out all the stops."

Following its premiere in London, it is hoped the production will roll out across the world.

The premiere will coincide with the 50th anniversary of the publication of Tolkien's complete trilogy: The Fellowship Of The Ring, The Two Towers and The Return Of The King.

The musical will cash in on the popularity of the Lord Of The Rings films. The third is due in cinemas this Christmas and the first two are among the highest grossing in movie history.

It is being co-produced by Oscar-winner Saul Zaentz, who owns the film and stage rights to the fantasy. His film credits include One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest, Amadeus and The English Patient.

Matthew Warchus, the man behind Tell Me On A Sunday and Our House, will direct."


There is only one reason I would go to see this - and that would be in the highly unlikely event of Elijah playing Frodo again. But I do know he took some singing lessons so he could audition for 'Moulin Rouge" :)



HAPPY BIRTHDAY BLOSSOM - WELCOME TO THE SIXTH DECADE:D

Happy Birthday Blossom!

A LoTR musical may be fun, actually. Some Tolkienites would surely regard it as dancing on the Professor's grave but not everyone is a Tolkienite :D. Unfortunately, I like musicals even less than I like LoTR :p so I seriously doubt that I'll ever go to see it unless, of course, it's going to be EJW's stage debut :).

A Very Happy Birthday, BLOSSOM! :k


------The biggest question I'd have about LotR on stage is whether special effects have reached the level they'd need to in order to give the story and characters enough reality.

------What makes me most nervous about LotR on stage is that in the full article it tells who the producers and director are, but there's not a word on who's writing the script or the music (unless I missed something)! Hopefully, that won't be an afterthought :eek: !

-----------------

Maeg--Yes, I did take the Two Ringbearers page down (it's still on my hard drive, so could be reposted in the future if "needed"). I'm guessing the essay Sheryl was referring to is An Apology to Bilbo (http://www.members.tripod.com/afewwords_tgs/id97.htm). It's not entirely about how the Ring came between Bilbo and Frodo, but that's a large part of it. (The essays take such a small amount of webspace compared to the screencap pages that I don't take them down--this one has been moved into the archives, though.)

My "web presence" will be different by the end of the summer . I'd started to write out a "history" of all that's happened, but in order for it to make any sense it'd have to be more detailed than anyone wants to read, I'm sure :rolleyes: . [i]Added later: In fact, what I've ended up saying is probably more than most people want to know, but may explain some things that may or may not happen./Added later

What it comes down to is that my current site will probably get split into two, with the JRRT and EJW material staying where it is (since I think more people have linked into that part of it) and the writing and editing sections (and probably the Franciscan section) moving into the free webspace I have with my regular ISP (Earthlink), now that they've finally gotten themselves a decent site-building program. Some of the fantasy material may end up both places.

One thing that will do is free up more space at the present one--still not unlimited, of course, but I may be able to leave screencap pages up longer than I can now.

After that gets a bit settled, the plan is to finally get a commercial site started for my (hopefully) developing desktop publishing. It's when I start that, that I'll need to buy the updated program that will let me return to having things like password protection, guestbooks, etc., on my current site as well as the new one. That will make things much nicer, especially the password protection as that would allow me to stop playing games with "secret pages," etc.

The one hurdle is getting the current site switched from the old, no-longer-supported program to the new one. I've been told there won't be any problems with this ( :rolleyes: ) as the two programs are compatible, but if everything disappears some day, well, you'll know why :eek: ! The worst that could happen is that I'd have to start over from scratch :( .

--------But now I have to get to my paying job, so I can afford all this :eek: !

Quick post to say:

HAPPY BIRTHDAY BLOSSOM!


May I also say that the prospect of LOTR: the Musical :eek: makes me gag? No matter WHO is singing Frodo (the very combination of the verb "singing" with "Frodo" makes me cringe), I cannot imagine anyone (please Eru, not Andrew Lloyd Webber :rolleyes: ) being able to condense this tale into a single musical/theatrical version. What, are we gonna see the Elves dancing through Rivendell? (Rivendance!!!) If Frodo is a tenor, will Sauron be a bass? (Now if they got Samuel Ramey to sing Sauron, I might show up). The mind reels at the very concept. :confused:

Edited to add: It appears that Saul Zaentz is the evil mastermind of this project. :mad:

and tg, thanks for all the work you have put into your site. It is one of my favorite places! :)

Originally posted by peaceweaver
May I also say that the prospect of LOTR: the Musical :eek: makes me gag? No matter WHO is singing Frodo (the very combination of the verb "singing" with "Frodo" makes me cringe), I cannot imagine anyone (please Eru, not Andrew Lloyd Webber :rolleyes: ) being able to condense this tale into a single musical/theatrical version.
Yes--the image of LotR as a musical goes way beyond (below?) the image of LotR on stage, doesn't it? I think I've been concentrating on the "on stage" part because my mind just won't handle the idea of a musical! Also because I keep thinking of JRRT's comments on translating fantasy into stage plays from "On Fairy-Stories"--let's just say he didn't think it worked :rolleyes: , because it's too difficult to keep the audience's suspension of disbelief intact. The SFX available today came much closer to that in the movies than I think JRRT could ever have imagined--but on stage? And with singing and dancing?? [OMG, is that Tom B. I see standing in the wings :eek: ? Maybe Saul Zaentz is a closet Tom Bombadil fan and decided it was time to include him in a production. He's probably the character best suited to a musical!]
Edited to add: It appears that Saul Zaentz is the evil mastermind of this project. :mad:
Maybe he's tired of "missing out"--IIRC, for Bakshi's LotR, Rankin-Bass's RotK, and PJ's movies, his involvement hasn't gone much--if any--beyond licensing. Sounds as if he'll be much more involved in this one.

...and tg, thanks for all the work you have put into your site. It is one of my favorite places! :)
Thanks--I really enjoy doing it (if that darned RL would only stay out of the way :mad: --although I confess I often don't pay as much attention to RL as I should :rolleyes: ). If I could only figure out a way to make a living from it... :p

----------

And thanks, naiad, for the new addition to my sig. As soon as I read "coupling of subtlety and intensity," I realized that's it! :)

Originally posted by tgshaw
The Four Humours reminds me of a play the drama department produced when I was in college, called Hamlet ESP, which used the original text but had the different parts of Hamlet's personality played by different people--based on the idea that he was, shall we say, a bit "mentally confused"?

Off-topic, but I feel the urge to come out of lurkdom to mention that I saw a production like this as an undergrad, although there were only two actors playing Hamlet. One of them was angry, sarcastic, and bitter, and was played by a man, and the other was sad and brooding and was played by a woman. I thought I'd hate it, but it worked okay -- the problem was that the rest of the cast wasn't nearly as good as these two actors. ;)

And I do think the musical theater could be a perfectly legitimate venue for an adaptation of LotR, if it's done well. (If it's not -- well, the book has survived Bakshi and Rankin-Bass; it can handle a bad musical.) As Maeglian said, Les Mis works beautifully and doesn't at all trivialize the source. Also, I've seen a stage adaptation of RotK -- the theater that did it had done the other two parts in previous seasons, before I moved to Chicago -- and it worked quite well, though some of their choices were a bit odd. The actor who played Frodo was particularly good. :) The staging was highly non-illusionistic, which is what you'd have to do if you wanted to stage LotR.

I remember T's take on drama and fantasy in "On Fairy Stories" -- mostly, what I remember (being a passionate lover of live theater) is that it annoyed me greatly. I like Shakespeare's take better -- it comes from a play that's not inordinately "fantastic" in the sense that LotR is fantastic, but it applies to all theater:

Piece out our imperfections with your thoughts,
Into a thousand parts divide one man
And make imaginary puissance.
Think, when we talk of horses, that you see them
Printing their proud hooves in the receiving earth,
For 'tis your thoughts that now must deck our kings:
Carry them here and there, jumping o'er times,
Turning the accomplishment of many years
Into an hourglass...

Originally posted by tgshaw
I think I've been concentrating on the "on stage" part because my mind just won't handle the idea of a musical! Also because I keep thinking of JRRT's comments on translating fantasy into stage plays from "On Fairy-Stories"--let's just say he didn't think it worked :rolleyes:, because it's too difficult to keep the audience's suspension of disbelief intact. The SFX available today came much closer to that in the movies than I think JRRT could ever have imagined--but on stage? And with singing and dancing?

Which question shall I answer first? :)

LotR can be realised on stage fairly well. Tolkien's comments are almost beside the point because theatre-goers wish to suspend their disbelief and--if they are not complete newbies--check it at the entrance. On stage, it makes little difference whether you are asked to believe that 5'6" hobbits are in fact 3'6" or that an arrangement of dirty boxes is in fact Elsinore ;). For instance, the one-piece LotR production I mentioned some ten pages ago had no Shelob--just scarce lighting and fluorescent eyes of all sizes painted all over the place and hanging on ropes from above. Gave you the creeps.

Singing and dancing can be more difficult if you approach the problem in a straightforward way. The trouble with LotR: The Musical is that one immediately imagines Sauron, Gollum and the Nazgul singing "This Baggins, this Baggins, this Baggins must die!" to the Lloyd Webber tune from JCS :D. However, a careful choice of material and good music may capture the mood of Frodo's quest, which is all that really matters.

I never liked Jesus Christ Superstar but the following bit--with small alterations :p--is very much on topic here:

GOLLUM
What then to do about Frodo of Hobbiton?
Miracle wonderman, hero of fools.

NAZGUL 3
No riots, no army, no fighting, no slogans.

SAURON
One thing I'll say for him--Frodo is cool.

GOLLUM
We dare not leave him to his own devices.
His half-witted fans will get out of control.

THE NAZGUL
But how can we stop him? His glamour increases
By leaps every moment; he's top of the poll.

:D :D

Edit 1: Voronwe posted while I was writing this. It seems that we are saying the same thing :).

Edit 2: And book-Frodo sings a song at The Prancing Pony, doesn't he?

Originally posted by Brunhild
However, a careful choice of material and good music may capture the mood of Frodo's quest, which is all that really matters.
That's why I wish they'd say who's writing the script and music--which, as far as I know, they haven't. Worries me a bit when they leave out this "little detail" but are able to wax eloquent about how "spectacular" it's going to be :rolleyes: .

I'm wondering how much fear is based on the really bad parodies some of us have written :o . I know in one thread at Imladris I posted a set of songs using melodies from My Fair Lady. I really don't want to go there :eek: ! But it would certainly help if we knew someone capable was doing the writing.

Edit 2: And book-Frodo sings a song at The Prancing Pony, doesn't he?
Yes--it's even used word-for-word in the Bakshi movie (until he falls off the table--not even the Bakshi & Beagle team was book-purist enough to let him sing the whole song and start over :p )! The book also says Frodo had a good voice--and was proud enough of it to keep singing even after he'd drawn attention away from Pippin (whose habit of opening mouth before engaging brain caused the emergency in the book, too). Dare I say it :rolleyes: -- Again, pride goeth before a fall.

That's one place where a song actually in the book could be used. The Lay of Luthien could be done nicely, too, I think.

tgshaw--Of course, this "little detail" is important. But what had been known about PJ before LotR except the fact that he'd got WETA to make it spectacular? :p Also, there's the actors' licence:

... But pardon, gentles all,
The flat unraised spirits that have dared
On this unworthy scaffold to bring forth
So great an object...

Voronwe--;) ;) ;)

Tg, this is a quote from the original press release about LotR the musical: The £8 million production has book and lyrics by Shaun McKenna and music by Stephen Keeling and Bernd Stromberger. McKenna & Keeling were the team responsible for the critically acclaimed West End musical “Maddie”. So they *have* said who are writing lyrics and music. The whole press release can be found over at TORn.
SAURON:
One thing I'll say for him--Frodo is cool.I never thought I'd agree with Sauron about anything, but...... he's on to something here! :D :rolleyes:


Edit:
Thank you, Ghyste! :)

Tg & the Esteemed Ladies of the Faculty: I started a thread about LoTR the Musical over in the Music Hall (http://www.khazaddum.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2010) a couple of days ago. It's got a few links in the first post, including one to the official site and one that contains some reviews of "Maddie".

Happy Birthday, Blossom!

Cool! Your birthday is on my anniversary! Er, rather, we got married on your birthday. ;) Whatever. I was born on my grandparent's anniversary, which was kind of neat, except I spent half my sixteenth birthday struggling through a snowstorm trying to get there in time for their 50th...

Originally posted by tgshaw
Yes, I did take the Two Ringbearers page down (it's still on my hard drive, so could be reposted in the future if "needed"). I'm guessing the essay Sheryl was referring to is An Apology to Bilbo (http://www.members.tripod.com/afewwords_tgs/id97.htm).

Ooops, I knew I should have looked those pics up before mentioning it... Yep, that's the essay I was thinking of.

Hi, Viola! Forgot to say that last time.

I'm going to have to re-read Tolkien's Fairy Stories essay - I didn't even remember he mentioned drama. I do think theatre goers are more willing to maintain suspension of disbelief and to use their imaginations than many movie goers. I think LOTR could be more naturally a musical than many books - the characters in LOTR already sing!

Gotta run, great conversation going though.

Sheryl

I do think theatre goers are more willing to maintain suspension of disbelief and to use their imaginations than many movie goers. I think LOTR could be more naturally a musical than many books - the characters in LOTR already sing.

OMG.

Shudder.

I'd trout you Sheryl, except for your "delicate condition".:p You are safe: but only as long as my old fashioned good manners last.
I refuse to discuss this horror except to say: if EW could actually sing (and thank God he can't , and there you go, there is indeed a silver lining to every small cloud) if he chose to be part of this appalling lapse of taste and intellect I would never watch the LoTR movies again. Yes, I do believe I would rather face three of Narya's spiders than have to seriously contemplate EW's participation in a venture of this sort.

And what is it with America and musicals anyway????? :rolleyes:What is this national insanity????

greetings nurse. :)

And Happy Birthday Blossom!!!

OMG. I do believe Viola zoomed past. Twice. :eek:

Originally posted by Brunhild
Edit 1: Voronwe posted while I was writing this. It seems that we are saying the same thing :).


More or less, yeah. Down to the Henry V quotes. Mmmmmm...Henry V... ;)

Happy Birthday, Blossom! :k

http://www.frodoandsam.net/film/gallery/images/elijah/elijah-flipper-002.jpg

from Elve's site. {{{Elve}}} Been a while since we had nice EW pics gracing our lounge. :)



Wonderful details in your gif, Blossom, as usual. :cool:

Hey there, shireling! And welcome out of lurkdom, Voronwe. :)

Btw, I'm glad to see, Maeg, that you are not retiring from the limericking business. Especially when you've only just introduced me to the idea that limericks can be angsty too! ;) Great limericks, Maeg, and Brunhild, your lyrics -- LOL! :D

The son of Tolkien allegedly has things to say about the musical. :p From TORn: http://amazon.imdb.com/PeopleNews/2003/20030530.html#4

Also at TORn, these scans from a French magazine, with our hobbit on the cover. http://www.theonering.net/scrapbook/group/803 So, any French readers able to share if those pages have at least something to say about EW or Frodo? ;)

Have a good weekend, everyone. {{{{Faculty}}}}

Originally posted by Prim
And what is it with America and musicals anyway????? :rolleyes:What is this national insanity????
After the successes of Moulin Rouge and Chicago, some pundits have started likening it to the taste for musical extravaganzas during the 1930's--that when times are uncertain (which they are now, to put it mildly, although the angst isn't primarily financial this time around), people want their entertainment to be an escape from the real world--and you can't get much more unreal than people bursting into song at odd moments :rolleyes: . In the interest of fairness, though, I have to point out that although the LotR musical involves some Americans (SZ would have to be involved somehow, of course, or it couldn't happen), it's not being staged in the U.S. (yet :eek: )

Interesting little photo manip on the cover of the French magazine--is Frodo trying to give the Ring to Shelob, now? :confused: Other than that, I didn't notice any new pictures. They still seem to be playing it pretty close to the vest regarding post-Shelob Frodo--I do hope they can keep that up, at least as far as the "general movie audience" is concerned.

Lovely picture, ainon. See, even Flipper wasn't a total waste :p .

Originally posted by ainon
Also at TORn, these scans from a French magazine, with our hobbit on the cover. http://www.theonering.net/scrapbook/group/803 So, any French readers able to share if those pages have at least something to say about EW or Frodo?
My French isn't good enough to pick up all the subtleties of the article (there's discussion of the changes in TTT from the book to the movie, and the differences between FotR and TTT, and Aragorn's fake death scene), but it's good enough to tell that neither Frodo nor Elijah was mentioned. At all. :p :rolleyes: (But hey, I practiced my language skills and learned a few French words for movie terms!)

Mel

ainon--Ditto what Mel said about the French article. PJ's too busy declaring his undying love for the ouargues :p.

Originally posted by Prim
...if he [EJW] chose to be part of this appalling lapse of taste and intellect I would never watch the LoTR movies again.
What an oath, ye gods! :) Actually, EJW did musical at least once before--performing "If I Were A Rich Man" in North. BTW, The Fiddler on the Roof is an example of a good musical based on an excellent book by Sholom Aleichem. Here's a post-LotR excerpt with slashy implications (the actual lyrics here (http://members.fortunecity.com/ryanchunt/Broadway/fiddler.html)):

Far From The Home I Love

(Elanor)
"So you are leaving your home to join that hero of yours. But why won't you tell me where he is?"

(Samwise)
"He is far, baby, terribly far. He is in a settlement on Tol Eressëa."

(Elanor)
"Tol Eressëa! And he asked you to join him on that lonely isle?"

(Samwise)
"No, baby, he did not ask me to go. I want to go."

How can I hope to make you understand
Why I do... what I do
Why I must travel to a distant land
Far from the home I love

There where my heart has settled long ago
I must go... I must go
Who could imagine I'd be wandering so
Far from the home I love
Yet... there with my love... I'm home

:D :D

A much more straightforward idea would've been to interpret this number as an Elrond/Arwen conversation but the above version is more on topic around here :).

Important Edit: EJW news here (http://www.bookpals.net/storyline/launch.html).

Originally posted by Brunhild
Important Edit: EJW news here (http://www.bookpals.net/storyline/launch.html).

Thanks, Brunhild--looks like a neat program. I think Elijah's done some children's book reading before--on Sesame Street or Reading Rainbow (and to those kids on the plane we read about way back when :) ). The article also says you can request an actor to come read at your school or organization (but I kind of doubt if you can ask for a certain one ;) ).

As a side note, following Brunhild's link brought me to this one, which I just posted in the Goonies' thread: http://www.bookpals.net/storyline/index.html
Sean A's one of this year's readers, and that page gives a streaming video of him reading A Bad Case of Stripes. If the new batch of stories are going up soon, I wonder if that means the current batch will be gone?

Hello all. Thanks to everyone for the birthday messages. Yes, it's now official - I'm as old as Frodo Baggins!

Originally quoted by Shireling:
Welcome to the sixth decade.

:eek: I hadn't thought of it like that before! When you say, 'welcome,' does that mean you're there already, Shireling?:D

I did have a lovely day - made even better by my dear hubby, who spent hours and hours secretly searching for a gorgeous picture of Frodo - the one in Rivendell, holding Sting - and then printing it and ironing - Yes, wonders will never cease, IRONING - it onto a tee-shirt for me. Bless!

I was out and about during the day, but spent a relaxing evening with a bottle of wine and the 'Fellowship' DVD. Where else would I go on my 50th birthday but Middle Earth? I think I am seriously obsessed!:rolleyes:

Well, it's now a day later, and I've just about digested Bridget's cake - Oh, was I supposed to share it? - it was very tasty, anyway. Thanks Bridget! :) Blossom makes a silent promise to start the diet - again - tomorrow! And thanks to Ainon for that lovely 'Flipper' silhouette, and to Maeg for the Limerick, the sentiments of which I am in total agreement! Oh, and Sheryl - I hope you and your husband had a lovely anniversary.

Brunchild. I look forward to seeing/hearing Elijah reading 'Me and My Cat,' on the Bookpals site. I haven't seen him do anything like that before, so it will be a treat, I'm sure.

Strange about that French magazine article, putting our boy on the cover, and not mentioning Frodo OR Elijah in the article!!!???

Nothing intelligent to contribute, I'm afraid - just popped in to say thanks.

Bye.

Hi all!

Spoilers for The Matrix (first one) (I promise this is on topic :))




I just finished watching The Matrix for the first time and I couldn't help but wonder if I would've cared about the characters if Elijah Wood had played Neo. They lost me in the scene where Laurence Fishbourne's character had just explained to Neo that the universe is other than he thought it is and he responds "I don't believe it!" There was a close up and I expected *something*, but IMHO there was "nothing, there's nothing". Even blank, confused look ala Legolas leaving Moria would've worked. I guess I'm so used to watching Elijah say paragraphs with his face that I'm spoiled. I thought Laurence Fishbourne (sp?) was good.
I thought the idea was good, the effects were cool, although several of the early and mid action scenes, IMO, went on so long as to get boring, but the fact that I really didn't care about the characters made me not enjoy it much. I can't imagine wanting to watch it more than one more time at the most and I certainly can't imagine spending time discussing the portrayals of the characters.


End of Matrix spoilers


Back in November (11-6) Prim wrote: "That's what I love about LOTR, its got the "personal" and the "epic" all in the one text."

That is so true!!! And the movies are an amazing combination of Tolkien, acting, directing, SFX, etc!

I once told my husband, "I can't imagine ever getting tired of watching Fellowship of the Ring". That's still true.

Although I longed to see Elijah do that scene in the Matrix (and I wasn't even thinking about him until I saw the "acting void", IMO, on Keanu Reeve's face), aren't we all so glad that he wasn't too tied up with Matrix or Star Wars or Moulin Rouge or whatever to do Lord of the Rings!! (And everyone said "Amen!")

The first time I read LOTR I devoured it, staying up as late as I could each night, to find out "what happens?!"
Not having a lot of reading time these days as I'm slowly reading LOTR for the second time (I'm actually spending most of my reading time happily working my way through the old Faculty posts), I *left* Treebeard the other night (I was a good girl the first time, but was I not the only Tolkien virgen shocked that Aragorn and the crew took up the whole first half (?!) of the Two Towers) and skipped to The Choices of Master Samwise and just bawled my eyes out thinking of Elijah and Sean doing that scene.

I refuse to try to fix the previous sentence. Sorry.

I laughed out loud at Hugo Weaving's Agent Smith's "NO!" in the Matrix!! So similar to his voice for Isildur's "No" at the Cracks of Doom.


Well, if it's all been said here before, please forgive this late blooming Tolkien and Frolijah fan. If you knew me in real life you'd know I can't keep my mouth shut. :)

[Quote from tgshaw]:
Interesting little photo manip on the cover of the French magazine--is Frodo trying to give the Ring to Shelob, now? [end quote]

That pic blew me away, it can't be Osgiliath since it's not on the chain (and I'm sure several of you would tell me the numerous discrepancies in costume, wig, etc. :)). Are you sure the background is Shelob's Lair? (although it sounds like they have sometimes mixed and matched backgrounds in released photos).

If he really is offering it to someone that may be the highest I've seen him hold it (and with the least amount of ring touching his fingers/hand) since offering it to Gandalf in Bag End.


I LOVE THIS!:
...that rare coupling of subtlety and intensity is, I think, what makes EW's performances so riveting! -- naiad

In the interest of fairness, though, I have to point out that although the LotR musical involves some Americans (SZ would have to be involved somehow, of course, or it couldn't happen), it's not being staged in the U.S. (yet )

oops. Sorry tg. I stand corrected. :) I tend to assume anything a bit off beat must be American. :D Apologies to all our beloved yanks. Actually I'll admit here, quietly, that I do have a very soft spot for the film musical Calamity Jane. Its not so much musicals per se that appalls me (though most, I admit, somehow do in actual fact) its the idea of an epic like LoTR being confined to a stage and a few catchy songs.

Someone please tell me it's not a British venture.....please...

Yes, Brunhild, that's about the severest oath I can manage. But it's more pragmatic than dramatic : if I ever actually watched EW as Frodo do a musical I would never be able to un-taint my internal image of Frodo. I would absolutely not be able to watch the movies again. Actually, I suspect even the knowledge of EW as a musical!Fro would achieve that. There is only so far my suspension of disbelief (willing and elastic though it is) can stretch. I suspect God is not at all interested in such trivia but I'm praying fervently that it never happens nonetheless. ;)

Ainon: that silhouette EW Flipper photo did my heart good. Particularly since we are about to enter the Great Wet Winter of my Discontent (the months of July and August). Sigh. Oh well. Almost halfway to summer. And the beaches here are totally wonderful, even on a cold day. Stop counting the mould spots and count your blessings Prim.

tg- Flipper Is Not That Bad!!!! It's beloved by my kids, and after all they are indeed the target audience. Now that has to count for something?

A late happy birthday to Blossom!!! Glad to hear that you had a wonderful day! :k
And a late happy anniversary to Sheryl and your hubby!


~~~~~MTV Movie Award Spoiler~~~~~
scroll fast if you don't want to know the results before watching the show on Thursday.










http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20030601/capt.1054442998.mtv_movie_awards_cakj133.jpg


http://members.lycos.co.uk/duckycc/smilies/woot.gif http://members.lycos.co.uk/duckycc/smilies/woohoo.gif
BEST ON SCREEN TEAM!!! and they are both there(billy was there too). and the hair is back as well. :p We also got "Best virtual performance" and "Best Movie".
Here're some description of acceptance speeches:

"After the virtual performance award went to Gollum, actor Andy Serkis — who voiced the character and performed the movements for its computer animation — appeared on screen to thank the filmmaker and special effects crew for their work in bringing the monster to life.

Then, the emaciated Gollum clamored over to snatch the trophy from Serkis' hands.

"You're a liar and a thief," Gollum hissed. "It's mine!"

Gollum went on to deliver an expletive-filled tirade against the filmmakers, actors, MTV and audience, while Serkis stood by looking embarrassed."


""The Two Towers" won best movie, beating "Spider-Man," "8 Mile," "The Ring," and "Barbershop." And "Towers" star Astin used his acceptance speech to apologize for Gollum's uncouth behavior."

Sounds fun! :D
*goes to set up VCR*


Edited later:
Originally posted by nurse
That pic blew me away, it can't be Osgiliath since it's not on the chain (and I'm sure several of you would tell me the numerous discrepancies in costume, wig, etc. ). Are you sure the background is Shelob's Lair? (although it sounds like they have sometimes mixed and matched backgrounds in released photos). If he really is offering it to someone that may be the highest I've seen him hold it (and with the least amount of ring touching his fingers/hand) since offering it to Gandalf in Bag End.The original pic is an official calendar image released back in January. He's holding the Phial. The magazine put the ring on there. :rolleyes: The original picture is this (click image for the huge version):

http://www.moviepublicity.com/image_assets/lotr3__FRODO_HR-.jpg (http://www.warofthering.net/ahobbitstale/pictures/rotk_frodo.jpg)

Looks at MTV picture posted by Deluby. Forgets reason and age and decent behaviour and goes: Squeeeeeeeee!

I'm telling myself I'm way too old to be a squealing fangirl. :rolleyes: But it's just so *good* to see those two back together again! :)

Don't know about the rest of the non-US Facultiers, but I do not get MTV. :( :( I won't get to see that..... :(
So any further pictures, summaries, etc. will be *more* than welcome once it has aired in the US!

Originally posted by deluby

Edited later:
The original pic is an official calendar image released back in January. He's holding the Phial. The magazine put the ring on there. :rolleyes: The original picture is this (click image for the huge version):

http://www.moviepublicity.com/image_assets/lotr3__FRODO_HR-.jpg (http://www.warofthering.net/ahobbitstale/pictures/rotk_frodo.jpg) [/B]

BLASHPHEMY!! :eek: :eek: ;)

Sheryl, I really, really meant to say this last night :o

a little bit late ... Happy Anniversary!!


Sounds like you had the best LOTR birthday you could have, Blossom. :)


Deluby - thank you! Oh that is soooo cool! The hair is back! And I'm excited about the awards too, of course. ;) Is it just me or does Sean look stockier than he was a few months back? Or is it Elijah who looks smaller somehow?

MTV Asia aired last year's awards ceremony a month later, so like Maeg, I too appreciate any choice tidbits anyone will share about the ceremony. :)


--------------

nurse, I haven't seen 'Matrix' yet, but I know exactly what you mean about Keanu. :p <ainon ducks Prim's trout> And it sounds like your LOTR rereading experience is shaping up to become suspiciously hobbit-centric. Hmm ... :D

A couple of brief forays into other movies which will be on-topic, really! ;) I watched 'Finding Nemo' today. It's such a delightful film, so instantly memorable and lovable. And part of me wished that Elijah had a part in it, because there's nothing as lasting as an animated movie that's weaved its magic as perfect as can be. So I'm looking forward to Elijah's little penguin now, and hoping that the guy who did 'Babe' will be capable of pulling off the same feat that the guys at Pixar have done time and again.

And I watched 'Desperado' on TV a few nights ago. 'Desperado' was written, produced, directed and edited by Robert (?) Rodriguez, the guy who directed Elijah in 'The Faculty'. 'Desperado' was great quirky fun, had over the top violence, and was perhaps the only film I've watched where I liked Antonio Banderas. :p It's not a magnificent film, but it was a very entertaining movie - which is what matters at the end of the day. So if Elijah ever does work with Rodriguez again, and if Elijah's playing a bad guy, then I'm absolutely definitely gonna want to watch the movie. :cool:
Having praised Rodriguez so, I must say I'm not about to go and watch 'Spy Kids'. I mean, just because I liked Antonio Banderas once doesn't mean I gotta test my limits, y'know? :D


To really get back to our boy - and yeah, I know I should have gotten to this first ;) these are apparently from 'Try 17':


http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-6/93723/try17-1.jpg

Don't recognise the dude with Elijah, but the lady is Franka Portente (sp?).

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-6/93723/try17-2.jpg http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-6/93723/try17-3.jpg


------------------

*hugs* Prim. I was specifically thinking of you too when I posted the silhoutte. :k

Sorry--I should have been more specific about the "interesting little photo manip" on the magazine cover. :o My only excuse is that the newer Faculty members fit in so quickly that I forgot not everyone was around when that calendar picture was making the rounds. :o :)

Deluby--thanks for the MTV news. Last year I went down to the student lounge after work and watched the awards on the TV there (since I don't have cable at home). But this year, with all the moving and construction that's been going on, the student lounge has disappeared :eek: ! So I probably won't see the actual show this year.

Prim--Yeah, I was mostly joking about Flipper :) . It's actually not a bad movie as long as you're not expecting a complex cinematic masterpiece--a good one for kids, IMHO. It does tend to be the butt of jokes, though. Not long after Elijah was cast as Frodo, someone posted a long list of reasons he (the poster) should have been given the part, instead--totally tongue-in-cheek--and every other item on the list was, "I wasn't in Flipper." :D IIRC, though, Dom picked Deep Impact to poke fun at in the FotR cast commentary. Elijah seems to take it all in stride--I guess you'd have to in order to keep acting for 15 years and 25 movies (approximately :rolleyes: ). If EW'd been sensitive about such things, he probably would have bailed out after North! subjectively about that movie, Brunhild ;) , just that the reviews would have "done in" a lot of adolescents--even with a supportive mother around.]

Edit:

from ainon:
Is it just me or does Sean look stockier than he was a few months back? Or is it Elijah who looks smaller somehow?
Sean seems to have been packing the pounds back on. When he was on The Tonight Show around the time TTT came out, he looked fantastic!! Then I saw him in a pic taken a couple of months later and he was somewhat heavier... and somewhat more, I'd say, in that MTV photo. I'm guessing that process will be one thing he won't miss after the RotK shooting's finally completed. :rolleyes:

Originally posted by tgshaw
I'm not saying anything subjectively about that movie, Brunhild ;), just that the reviews would have "done in" a lot of adolescents--even with a supportive mother around.

How could I skip this? ;) Generally speaking, being sensitive about criticism is not at all incompatible with being persistent in your artistic pursuits :cool:. OTOH, the terrible reviews of North were making exception for EJW. In addition, part of the criticism reflected the intellectual inadequacy of the critics :p. (Ebert, for instance, babbled indignantly about broad stereotypes without ever understanding that since the story was North's dream, all those stereotypes existed only in the head of a boy overfed by Hollywood products--whence all those stars spoofing themselves.) So EJW could only blame himself for having given Rob Reiner an overly optimistic idea about how smart kids and their parents actually were at that time :D.

Edit: Ainon, it's Franka Potente--she's mighty rather than ominous :D.

Originally posted by tgshaw
Interesting little photo manip on the cover of the French magazine--is Frodo trying to give the Ring to Shelob, now? :confused:

nurse trouts herself for not figuring out "manip"ulation. I'll try to restrain myself in lurk mode.

Just popped in to say

BELATED HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO BLOSSOM!!! Hope you had a good day! :D

Hugs,

Luth

Welcome to the sixth decade.

I hadn't thought of it like that before! When you say, 'welcome,' does that mean you're there already, Shireling?

'Fraid so - well and truly there:( Oh well, age is just a number, as they say - 'they' usually being a lot younger:) Glad to hear you had such a good day - a bottle of wine and the FOTR dvd - sounds like heaven:D

Can't wait to hear Elijah read his cat story - I'm very much a cat person and own two (who completely rule the household) - so this really appealed to me. Has anyone heard him reading 'The Precious Gift' (no pun intended)- a story about a snowflake? I'm not sure when he did this, he may have been a child, but I quite often see it on eBay but have never succeeded in getting it. He has such a beautiful speaking voice - always clear as crystal but with a very gentle quality to it:)

I was so happy when I checked into my pc this morning to discover the good news about the MTV awards - and I just adore the pic posted by deluby. There are quite a few other pics popping up now in various places but I think that one is my favourite. How lovely to see his hair back - I'd actually got quite fond of the buzz cut but I do prefer him with hair:)

Bunches of the MTV pics in Hugs! Plus a link to many more.

Originally posted by Brunhild
Edit: Ainon, it's Franka Potente--she's mighty rather than ominous :D.

<giggling helplessly> Okay, sorry, but that really made my day. :D And I guess it's so obvious that I'd completely forgotten about her now that she's no longer connected to Elijah. :o :p


Originally posted by nurse
I'll try to restrain myself in lurk mode.

Oh no, you'll not! {{{nurse}}} Btw, I never even noticed that the mag cover was a manipulated photo until it was mentioned here. :p


Shireling - I love cats too! I know the 'Precious Gift' you're talking about but it's kind of slipped my mind right now what it was all about. :o Meanwhile, try visiting Elve's frodoandsam.net site, at the audio page (http://www.frodoandsam.net/film/multimedia/audio.html) to download excerpts of him reading 'Big Pumpkin' and another of him reading the part of Icarus from 'Adventures from the book of virtues'.


_________________



This link takes y'all to a scanned newspaper clipping over at TORn. It's about the LOTR musical, and it contains news that'll no doubt reassure Prim. :)

http://img-nex.theonering.net/images/scrapbook/orig/6784_orig.jpg


Hey Luth!! :k

Originally posted by nurse
nurse trouts herself for not figuring out "manip"ulation. I'll try to restrain myself in lurk mode.
You'd better not! It was my bad for not being more clear (and I like my trout almondine ;) ). So if you go into lurk mode, I'll feel like it's all my fault, and blame myself even more... :( ;)

And, and... and... I can't think of anything else to say :eek: :eek: !!!

{{{Faculty}}}

You guys are great! My brain is so fried from work right now that I'm not even sure if I spelled fried right and I don't particularly care. I think I misspelled virgin the other day.

Um, go Elijah:cool:

There's a translation of the French magazine article at TORN now (Shieldmaiden posted the link in the Trilogy Forum). In order to save everyone a lot of time ;) , none of the hobbit actors are mentioned. The only thing I found that could vaguely be related to any of them is an answer from Viggo talking about the teamwork:

Q: Apart from having taken 18 months of your life, what did making this film bring you?

A: I discovered that New Zealand and her people were unbelievable. There was a fantastic crew and a superb group of actors. There was a real work atmosphere, everyone had their sleeves rolled up and there was no room for someone with an attitude or the sort of behaviour you sometimes see on big films. It was really a team effort, and that’s even more important for me than the final result. I enjoyed myself and I shared lots of experiences with these people, I realise what we did and I’m proud of it. If all of that shows on screen, I mean the good with the bad, everything that was difficult, hard, everything we contended with from day to day, step after step, all the little victories in the construction of Middle-earth to make it real, then it was worth the effort.

That's all, folks... :rolleyes:

For anyone who wants to read it anyway ;) , here's the link: http://www.theonering.net/perl/newsview/8/1054550864

Interviews are with PJ, Viggo, John Rhys-Davies (mostly about Treebeard), and Andy Serkis.

From ainon
This link takes y'all to a scanned newspaper clipping over at TORn. It's about the LOTR musical, and it contains news that'll no doubt reassure Prim. Slightly evil Maeg points out the following quote from the producer, Mr. Wallace: "I have no idea who will play Frodo yet, but I would like it to be an unknown. We will hold open auditions in Britain to find him. Our Frodo is out there somewhere."

Hmmmm..... that sounds very eerily like what a certain film director said some 5 years ago...almost word for word! I'm telling you, people and producers alike, there is only *one* Frodo! And he is *not* an unknown! :D :cool:

And no, I don't *really* mean that EJW should get on stage in a musical, of course not!!! ....Yet I would certainly queue for tickets if he did.... :rolleyes: And so would ainon and Bridget if the producer gets his wish for the Aragorn role..... :D

Anyway, I *don't* envy the guy who is going to step into Frodo's feet after EJW discards them!

BTW, in that article's proposed songs for the musical, the one they have specifically altered the artist name in to relate it directly to Frodo is "I'm too sexy". Since this is the Sun and all, that is probably the highest praise this paper could ever think of to give to anyone. :rolleyes: Their illustration obviously shows which Frodo they are talking of, too. I thought that was funny. :o

Oh, and ainon;- those small pics from Try 17 reminded me just how much I'd like to see that film. I am pea green with envy thinking of the US facultiers who first get the MTV awards (which btw has been extensively covered on the news here, since, you know - the Beckhams were there!!! Wow!! :rolleyes: ) and then Try 17. I'd better go away and sulk somewhere else....

But first let me echo everyone else, nurse: Don't go back into lurk mode! :)

[pops out of lurk mode to wish...]

A very belated Happy Birthday to Blossom!

and

Belated Happy Anniversary to Sheryl and Hubby!

Maeglian: :p :p :p to everything you said about LOTR the Musical, and the deja-vu comments re casting of Frodo. It would be wonderful to see Elijah on the stage, but not in that role. Please, not in that role!

If it helps the pangs of envy any, most of us U.S. Faculty members are unlikely to see Try Seventeen in any way except its crebain version.;) It's premiering on a premium cable channel that hardly anyone gets.:( :rolleyes:

Adding my voice to the chorus: Nurse, don't go back into lurk mode! You have entered the realm of the Ladies of the Wood...you cannot go back!:D

Wallace said, "We've had some ideas about who we'd like to sign up. For example, Hugh Jackman was great in Oklahoma and would make a great Aragorn."

*eek!* Oooh, wouldn't that be awesome?? Hey, a LOTR musical can't be that bad, right? I may end up swooning for the greasy mortal after all...:o :o :D

Bridget watches in horror as the Faculty prepares to run her out of the lounge on a rail...:eek:

Just kidding, OK, I'll stay on topic now.;) I watched "Radio Flyer" and "Avalon" lately - both, of course, with awesome performances from a very adorable baby Elijah.:) Both movies had a lot of scenes with Elijah and another kid, and I couldn't help but notice that Elijah always got a lot more screen time and close-ups than his peers. I can't imagine why that would be...;) :D

Originally posted by Bridget Chubb
I watched "Radio Flyer" and "Avalon" lately - both, of course, with awesome performances from a very adorable baby Elijah.:) [/B]

Yeah, that never ceases to amaze me, the "awesome performances". IMO he even stood out in that tiny part in Back to the Future, II. Blessings on his mom who first realized about him at seven or so, "hey, Elijah can do that!"

Originally posted by nurse
Yeah, that never ceases to amaze me, the "awesome performances". IMO he even stood out in that tiny part in Back to the Future, II. Blessings on his mom who first realized about him at seven or so, "hey, Elijah can do that!"
IIRC, she enrolled him in modeling classes when he was six, to "channel his energy" :p . Interesting choice, though--instead of a sport--so she must have seen something in him. Again, IIRC (someone correct me if I'm not, please), they were in LA for a modeling contest when an agent (who also must have seen that "something") asked him if he'd like to act, and he replied, "Why not?" He seems to have become a bit more committed since then ;) .

As far as awesome performances, it's hard to imagine he made Child in the Night and Avalon within a year of each other. Although he's certainly not bad in Child in the Night, it's not something I'd call an "awesome performance." But, then, I've seen the two adult leads (and even a couple of the actors in supporting roles) give much better performances than they did in that movie. I chalk it up mostly to the limitations of movie-of-the-week production, especially how quickly they had to be made--not much time to "get in touch with a character," or to fine-tune scenes. But in Avalon he literally stole the show--for me, anyway. I'd gone to it in the theater mostly to see Aiden Quinn, but years later it was Elijah's character and his story that I remembered. And y'know, even though I now appreciate the genetic match-up of father and son, I couldn't have told you what color Elijah's eyes were (as opposed to Aiden Quinn's ;) ); I just remembered the character and what happened to him, which I'd think would be a sign of good acting.

Speaking of Child in the Night, I don't have video copying capability. But if anyone does--since I seem to have cornered one of the few copies of the movie on the planet--I'd be happy to send it for that purpose (it's region 1, of course). I know I haven't exactly given it high praise :rolleyes: , but for anyone who's interested specifically in Elijah's acting (rather than seeing a "great movie"), it's worthwhile, IMHO. A little of that "something" comes out in the character's fantasy scenes, where he imagines himself to be Peter Pan. And it is his first "major role."

OTOH--still no sign of Day-O in any way, shape or form anywhere on the planet, and that's one that sounds like a pretty good movie! :( Talk about hunting crebain! -- That one would be a prime trophy, and I could see myself shelling out a pretty fair "reward" for it.

Well, I have nothing particularly interesting to contribute to the musical discussion (since I'm highly unlikely to see Hugh Jackman in it even if he does get the part), but I thought I'd mention I had another EW dream, sort of.

This one was more of a general LOTR movie dream. I was hired to play a part in LOTR, was delighted of course, even though it was a small part, had a great time hanging out with the hobbit boys and all that, but one day it dawned on me that I was filming an awful lot of scenes, and when I sat down and traced them out it suddenly occurred to me that PJ had turned my character into a Tenth Member. :eek: I hastened to PJ to protest, he said that the Powers That Be insisted he add more females to the story, but not to panic; my character was going to get offed by the Watcher at the gates of Moria. So I was cool again.

Until it dawned on me that I was filming scenes after Moria! Another little confab with PJ revealed that The Powers That Be insisted on my character surviving to the bitter end. He said he had no choice but to let my character be. I was in this huge quandry about what to do - here I was, committed to playing a character I was utterly opposed to (didn't really mind the character herself - she wasn't too Sueish, or anything - just the idea of her existence squicked me). I don't remember how this was resolved, since the dream sort of veered off into other stuff there. Right before I woke up I was having a gentle but firm conversation with EW regarding cancer sticks...

All things considered, I think I liked the one where EW was my babysitter much better. Wasn't half so confused, for one, and I didn't spend half of it tearing my hair out or slowly recognizing the obvious...

You're two up on me, Bridget - I haven't seen either of those. I keep intending to have another EW movie marathon weekend, but we're always gone! Last weekend was the slowest I expect for a while - only one museum. :p This weekend is a Living History/Pioneer Days sort of thing, except I understand the SCA is there so it doesn't sound like a simple Pioneer Days at all - but it definitely sounds interesting. The weekend after that is the Fort St. Joseph Rendezvous, with guys pretending to be French Voyageurs and demonstrations on rifle making and bullet making and such like I think, and there's stuff the next two weekends but I suspect we'll be in Tennessee so hubby can do some work out there (I'm *so* looking forward to running around with all five kids in a strange city without hubby...).

If I don't do a EW Movie Marathon in the winter or very early spring it doesn't happen. I did do one this year, but it was only two flicks. And of course I can't just watch the movies without hubby - he'd Have Words With Me. But he's always got stuff going on weekday evenings, seems like. *sigh*

I'll just be jealous, I guess.

Thanks for the pics, Hobmom.

Don't relurk, nurse!

The Shelob's Lair pic. *happy sigh* I really need to set that up as my wallpaper, I do.

Sheryl

Sheryl, I get tired just *reading* about your upcoming weekends! Take care of yourself now! :)

Otherwise I'm having a small case of "Why couldn't EJW be more like Orlando Bloom" griping....
No, I'm *not* talking looks ( :D ), I'm talking acting continuously in new films with wide releases, at express train speed. So when is "ESOTSM" expected to premiere, again?

(((Faculty)))

Some video highlights from MTV Movie Award here:
http://hulk.kamera.com/meta/2003/0602/292/24675-R1.ram
It's 15mins long, Billy Boyd appears at 2'35", PJ accepts Best Action Sequence Award at 11'27" and Hobbits accept Best Movie at 13'38". I think those acceptance speeches shown here are cut short.
I'll encode and put up those 3 parts later, coz I don't wanna sit through the rest 13mins again. :rolleyes: And I'm pretty sure the faculty don't want to either. :p

Originally posted by shilohmm

The Shelob's Lair pic. *happy sigh* I really need to set that up as my wallpaper, I do.

Sheryl

Snap! I've just done that. The picture is too sublime to go past. Sublime, in a sad, angsty, anticipatory kind of way.

Just to let My Fellow Australians know: 'Child in the Night' will be broadcast on Foxtel here (on the Fx channel) at 10pm on 14 June.

{{{Faculty}}}

:)

deluby - thank you thank you thank you!

originally posted by nurse
IMO he even stood out in that tiny part in Back to the Future, II.

Peachy hops into her trusty Delorean and zips back in time to herself at 15 years old.

Me: You know that kid you just saw playing the video game in Back to the Future II?
Me at 15: Um, yeah. Blink and you’ll miss him – I’m watching that hottie Michael, you know.
Me: Well, in 15 years’ time you’re gonna be mad about that kid.
Me at 15: What? Why?
Me: Well – he’s going to play Frodo.
Me at 15: He’s going to - Frodo? FRODO? OH MY GOD! THEY’RE MAKING A MOVIE?!
Me: Three of ‘em.
Me at 15: This is going to be a looooong wait.
Me: Trust me, you don’t know what waiting is until you’re six months from ROTK.

Deluby, I love your sig, but every time I see it I want to add; Gollum: Hopeless. :D

Peachy, ROFL!!!!

I loved those Back to the Future movies, and I always hated that bratty little kid saying, "This is like a baby's game!" Smart-assing off to Marty McFly! Someone needed to slap some respect into that kid! Aaah, if I'd had any idea....!

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Peachy
Trust me, you don’t know what waiting is until you’re six months from ROTK.
QUOTE]

NO S...!

Peachy, LOL!! :D


Here are the MTV MA clips, I put them in one page here:

[Edited days later: clips are deleted, go to my later post for complete MTV MA acceptance speech clips.]

Two versions of each clip, Windows Media and Quicktime.
I'd really appreciate it if you don't post the link elsewhere coz I don't know how that'll effect the bandwidth and stuff, don't wanna risk my account being deleted again. :rolleyes: :o Plus I'll take them down after tomorrow or the next day anyway. Also, if you d/l them, please let me know how those clips are playing on your computer(if frames play smoothly or not), so I'll have some idea for the video compilation disc I'm doing for the Faculty. Thank you! :k

This place has gone awfully silent alll of a sudden, but I'm sure that's just because people are speechless with gratitude, Deluby. :k Thank you! :)

The clips play equally well for me. EJW, SA and BB accepting the "Best Movie" is a little bit jerky in both versions.... (the sound is fine!) Elijah actually seems a bit overwhelmed..... I'd have thought he'd be used to this kind of thing by now.

Although he has had to accept *far* too few awards for the Frodo role! :( :mad:

Also, I couldn't help thinking a little of Prim, seeing Keanu Reeves and Elijah Wood together on the same stage. A dream come true, or what? :D

And LOL at PJ's acceptance speech for best action sequence. He is so :cool: ! Also, at the time that acceptance clip was made, re-shoots were apparently under way since Viggo and Bernhard Hill are there in costume. I haven't seen any confirmation anywhere about whether reshoots involving Sam and Frodo have been finalized, but I've read speculation that it actually has......
Kind of sad if the filming's really *over* once and for all for the two of them. I wonder whether they'll be mentioning anything about that in the best onscreen team acceptance speech..... Keep your ears and eyes open when that airs! (As if you wouldn't... :D )

This just in from E! Online's 'Dotted Line' column:

Toes are tapping for Robin Williams and Brittany Murphy. The pair join Elijah Wood in Warners' computer-animated musical comedy Happy Feet. Williams voices four characters in the story of a young penguin (Wood) struggling to pursue his dreams. Murphy lends her pipes to the role of the penguin's gal-pal. The film is aiming for a 2005 release.

If I may be permitted a moment of angst here:
[rant]
Elijah! We want to see YOU ON-SCREEN. You have a lovely voice, but it's better attached to your body.
[/end rant]

deluby, until seeing the above, I WAS literally speechless with gratitude. Thank you for the MTV clips!

Edit: If this is a musical comedy, does that mean Elwood's going to.....sing?!?!?

Deluby: :k for such a nice preview of the MTVMA’s.

Given that Gollum won an award, too, I thought you all might enjoy this little excerpt
from the June/July issue of Nickelodeon Magazine (my son still has a subscription for some reason.)

“Interviews” with computer generated stars:

Q: What’s the strangest thing about working with living characters?

Scooby Doo: Their strange, rounded ears. And their names! They’re just too much!

Yoda: Yes! [laughs] A riot they are! “Samuel L. Jackson!” “Ewan McGregor!” Names like that, who would believe?

Dobby: Right. It’s not good enough to just be something normal like Watsa. Or Branny. The human designers make it all fancy—“Emma Watson.” “Kenneth Branagh.”

Yoda: A name like Elijah Wood, imagine being saddled with!

Gollum: [laughs] Ha! Ssstop! You kill Gollum!

Edit: If this is a musical comedy, does that mean Elwood's going to.....sing?!?!? Oh well, in animated Disney movies, at least, they quite often have other people singing the songs than those who voice the characters in speaking mode and who are credited *as* the character.

Nevertheless, we've heard the man sing. Or squeak-sing. Remember that MTV (?) clip from last year, the one where he was also wearing sunglasses and Gandalf's hat in the snow? Ever since I saw that clip, I've had *this* unsettling vision in my mind of Weathertop in LotR the musical:

Wiki: Yo, I'll tell you what I want,what I really really want!
Frodo: So tell me what you want, what you really really want!
Nazgul company: We'll tell you what we want, what we really really want!
Frodo: So tell me what you want, what you really, *really* want!
Etc....

:eek: :rolleyes: :D

Clearly, this news of the musical has not improved my mind much. :o

You guys are hilarious! You brighten my day. I was a little depressed because I drove by the dollar theatre where TTT was recently and it's gone :( . For the first time since TTT opened, I no longer have the ability to go (Although my 7 times probably pales next to many of you:)) . When does the DVD come out?

I'm officially obsessed. Tonight, I was dozing off while reading my son a Magic School Bus book and realized instead of reading "'he's getting away!' Phoebe yelled", I'd said "I'm leaving! Frodo said".

By the way I was intrigued at how accurately Maeg analyzed the lyrics to Gollum's song (in this thread 11-25-02) before TTT came out.

Nite.

Originally posted by peaceweaver
“Interviews” with computer generated stars:
In the hobbit-less French magazine article, Andy Serkis said there was actually a short clip made of Gollum and Jar Jar Binks smoking and chatting with each other--it would have been done while the SW folks were shooting in Australia. From the sound of it, not even Andy's seen it; maybe his mention will bring it out of hiding.

Well, I had to mention that bit today because when I read it I immediately thought of LEK--So, in case you're lurking anywhere near, LEK, have a great birthday!

------------

From Maeg
Nevertheless, we've heard the man sing. Or squeak-sing.
Hey, what could be better for a penguin :p !?

Boy it sure is quiet here, where is everybody? :confused:

The bookpal book reading video is online:
http://www.bookpals.net/storyline/cat/reader.jpg

quicktime small (2mb) (http://www.bookpals.net/storyline/cat/me_and_my_cat_low.mov)
quicktime medium (4mb) (http://www.bookpals.net/storyline/cat/me_and_my_cat_med.mov)
quicktime large (11mb) (http://www.bookpals.net/storyline/cat/me_and_my_cat_high.mov)

If you prefer other media formats, go here: http://www.bookpals.net/storyline/cat/index.html
http://members.lycos.co.uk/duckycc/bookpal01.jpghttp://members.lycos.co.uk/duckycc/bookpal02.jpg
http://members.lycos.co.uk/duckycc/bookpal03.jpghttp://members.lycos.co.uk/duckycc/bookpal04.jpg
http://members.lycos.co.uk/duckycc/bookpal05.jpg



Happy Birthday, LEK!!!!


edited to add screencaps

Deluby, those are the Cutest Pics of Elwood I Have Ever Seen. THANK YOU!!

Hmmm, yes. Those are The Cutest Pics of Elijah I Have Ever Seen. And he has hair again! Yay for hair! Thanks, Deluby!

Deluby, thank you! Adorable story and very cute reading of it! (A great pity the kids here don't understand English! )
And towards the end there:...so you can click on me......Yeah, Elijah, like we don't do that far too much already! :rolleyes: :)

So..... how were the MTV awards?

Kind of sad if the filming's really *over* once and for all for the two of them. I wonder whether they'll be mentioning anything about that in the best onscreen team acceptance speech.....

I wonder if we'll ever get to see the moment when Elijah takes off his Frodo costume/make-up for the very last time - possibly on the final dvd? I wonder if he'll cry (or did cry - still don't know if its past or future) - I know I will if I ever get to see it - a very emotional moment:(

I've just been watching Lij read 'Me & My Cat' for the first time - adorable:) And deluby - those pics from the reading are wonderful - thanks:)

*thwacks Maeg with a trout*

That's for putting the Spice Girls into my head. The nerve ... :mad: ;) :D

Deluby, oh, Elijah looks absolutely adorable and well-adorned with hair. Thanks for the links and the screencaps. I'm s-l-o-w-l-y downloading the low-res one right now, but I'm sure it'll be more than worth the trouble. Thank you too for the MTV clips earlier. I downloaded the Quicktime versions and they work fine, well as fine as my deal old computer could manage. :) :k

peachy
Me: Trust me, you don’t know what waiting is until you’re six months from ROTK.

ROTFLMAO! Oww, tell me about it! :D


nurse, I'm happy to see you're well delurked. :) Now where've Mariol and Brunhild gone off to? Shireling, I'm still getting over my envy ... you met a hobbit. You met Billy Boyd. Pippin! My next favourite after Frodo. You talked to Billy Boyd. You talked to Elijah's friend. Nope, no way I'm gonna get over this jealousy anytime soon. :o :)

And I'm with you - it would be so special if we were to share and witness that final Elijah-being-Frodo moment, but I know I'll be crying.


Happy Birthday, LEK! Hope you're still lurking with us.

Hi, Ainon! I'm right here! (*waves*)

I'm away from my home and my high-speed internet link on an extended trip. I'm accessing this forum using some foreign computer that refuses to play Quicktime, and this slow connection speed precludes the download of any big files, so I'm reading these posts with one hand tied behind my back (no reason, really; I'm just kinky). But THANK YOU Deluby for the lovely gifs and pics of Elijah reading (although I can't play the qt file). These are indeed lovely and expressive pictures. They are water in the desert to me (I'm away from my DVD player as well).

The truth of the matter is that I haven't had anything intelligent to say. I watched the MTV awards last night, and found them very silly. The only thing the audience seemed to laugh at was butt and boob jokes. Clearly I have aged beyond the ability to appreciate the humor of the up-and-coming generation. All female presenters and award contenders were forbidden to wear bras or form complete sentences. Giggling and gushing was the order of the day. Is this what we've come to? What ever happened to women's lib? Auch, I'm so ashamed!

SPOILERS for folks who haven't seen the awards show yet:

It was very nice, however, to see Elijah recognized. His intelligent comment regarding how the Best Onscreen Team was a dysfunctional team, being as it included Gollum who wasn't even there, seemed to go right over the heads of the audience (some of the other more clever comments during the evening also seemed to be delivered into a vacuum, whereas anyone saying "fart" or imitating the noise got a big laugh). :rolleyes:

We had prerecorded the show to skip the commercials, and it ran long, so our timer ran out and I did not get a chance to see the Best Movie award. I'm hoping someone will eventually post it as a file somewhere. I would have liked to see the 3 hobbit actors together at the end.

I'm in a rhyming message mood today! First one for....


Shireling; - I envy you!
You're the very first one of us who
has actually seen
all of Try 17
Pleeeeeeeease could we have your review? :)


And then one for ainon:

I take trout-wacks in stride, but you
should remember there's still work to do:
It would only be fair
if you trouted the dear
squeaking guy who inspired me, too! :p


And one for all of us (written before the last few posts, to be fair):

The Faculty has gone so quiet
you would think we were on a strict diet
eschewing most things Fro
and Elijah, but oh! -
Gorging is much more fun, - so let's try it!


And I'm *not* writing a limerick about EJW's upcoming Safe Sex appearance in the UK - but I trust the UK Facultiers will keep us informed even so?

Just saw the cat story. I can't decide if I should "awww!" or ..... ahem, maybe I should go visit the swoon thread... what a voice!

I saw the MTV awards also and I'm with Mariol. There was very little non-Elijah stuff that was worthwhile. The "CGI characters who've gone before and paved the way" clip was a bright speck of imagination. The acceptance of the best movie award was nice. Billy Boyd, I believe, stated something like "it was an actor's dream to be in a movie of such high quality." I also felt like it went over the audience's heads.

Right after the Gollum/Smeagol/Andy Serkus (sp?) acceptance for best CGI character there was a close up of Elijah mouthing "that was awesome!" He was in cute geek mode for the most part, IMO. ;)

I was entering info in Quicken today and suddenly have a "ghost" line that won't work (the one below it does). My hubby was trying to help and finally said "I guess that one's for Elijah". I went "whaaa?" He rolled his eyes and explained that he meant the *prophet* Elijah (for whom an empty seat is left at Jewish passovers).

IIRC, they also leave the door open for Elijah (just in case he shows up)..... I wonder if that would work? ;)

Happy Birthday, LEK!

Oh, my goodness, I love that clip of EW reading! I cracked up at the end when he said we should "rent" the book from the library - that's what we used to tell the kids, in explaining that library books aren't ours to keep. The kids liked to watch him read, as well - my oldest is 10, and reads stuff like LOTR, but she even watched it and reports, "I liked it!"

I'm really glad I've never heard that Spice Girls song EW squeak-sings. ;)

Thanks for more rhymes, Maeglian.

I think the prophet Elijah only shows up on Passover (-?); not sure what night we should leave the door open in hopes of Elijah Wood.... Anyone Jewish here who can explain that one? You'd think it'd be Moses who'd show up on Passover - how'd Elijah get hooked in there?

I need to toddle off and watch the MTV clips. Thanks, deluby!)

Sheryl

Originally posted by mariol3b3
It was very nice, however, to see Elijah recognized. His intelligent comment regarding how the Best Onscreen Team was a dysfunctional team, being as it included Gollum who wasn't even there, seemed to go right over the heads of the audience

We've been shredding the whole bizarre MTV ethos in the Harem, and your comment above made me think again that Elijah, in spite of being only 22 years old, somehow seems to be vastly ahead of his peers (and of those much older than him) in terms of his maturity, intelligence and graciousness. In fact, whenever I see Elijah at any sort of function like this, I'm struck by the very honest gentility of his bearing and conduct compared to others in the entertainment industry, even those far older than he is. It reminds me of the legendary "gentlemen" actors of old, such as Jimmy Stewart and Gregory Peck.

I'm not Jewish but I've been to a couple of Passover Seders in my day. It is believed that Elijah, the prophet, will come to announce the coming of the Messiah. It's customary to leave a place for him at the table and to pour an overflowing glass of wine for him (you put a plate under the glass to catch the spill). Some people do also leave their front door open...but I've only been to Seders in apartment buildings, so it's not really practical to do that!

RL's taking its toll so I only have time to thank deluby for everything.

People've been making EJW/Passover jokes for a while now. The following one's from http://www.thechicagoloop.net/quotes/book3.html:

- Elijah Wood visits every Jewish household once a year.
- He's never visited here!
- We're not a Jewish household.
- You're Jewish!
- Hardly.
- Well, it's a good reason to keep kosher.
- Okay - no more pork.

One more on-topic bit from the same source:

- There aren't many photos of Frodo I don't love.
- He caused me to learn Photoshop!

Deluby - The ladies of The Faculty are in your debt again! Thank you, thank you, thank you, for that link to 'Me and My Cat.' Adorable!:)

Does Elijah get better-looking every time I see him? Is it the hair - or is it me?

Originally posted by Mariole
I watched the MTV awards last night, and found them very silly. The only thing the audience seemed to laugh at was butt and boob jokes. Clearly I have aged beyond the ability to appreciate the humor of the up-and-coming generation. All female presenters and award contenders were forbidden to wear bras or form complete sentences. Giggling and gushing was the order of the day. Is this what we've come to? What ever happened to women's lib? Auch, I'm so ashamed!

I know. It makes you wonder, doesn't it? Is it us or them?:rolleyes: I'll tape it just to see Elijah, Sean and Billy, but from your report I could happily do without the rest.

Originally quoted by Elda:
Elijah, in spite of being only 22 years old, somehow seems to be vastly ahead of his peers (and of those much older than him) in terms of his maturity, intelligence and graciousness. In fact, whenever I see Elijah at any sort of function like this, I'm struck by the very honest gentility of his bearing and conduct compared to others in the entertainment industry, even those far older than he is. It reminds me of the legendary "gentlemen" actors of old, such as Jimmy Stewart and Gregory Peck.

Yes. I mean, I know he can swear with the rest of them, but somehow he seems to be sensitive to the occasion. He appears to be conscious of when and where certain behaviour is appropriate. 'Maturity, intelligence and graciousness,' Yes - I like those qualities applied to Elijah, Elda. Makes you feel quite proud of him!:)

Originally posted by Shireling:
I wonder if we'll ever get to see the moment when Elijah takes off his Frodo costume/make-up for the very last time - possibly on the final dvd? I wonder if he'll cry (or did cry - still don't know if its past or future) - I know I will if I ever get to see it - a very emotional moment

I can hardly bear the thought!:(

nurse - happy you've decided to stay with us. It's much better here than in Lurkdom. :)

Ainon. Elijah singing The Spice Girls - even in his funny squeaky voice - is way better than The Spice Girls singing The Spice Girls. Oh, you know what I mean!

Peachy - LOL at your 15-year-old self v present-day self conversation regarding EW in 'Back to the Future. II' :) When I watch Elijah in 'Avalon,' 'Radio Flyer, 'Huck Finn' etc. it's difficult to imagine the 'Aaah!' changing to 'Mmmm,' on seeing him in 'LOTR' and 'Bumblebee.' Not to mention Elijah as himself! It's amazing what a few years can do! The acting talent was always there though.

LUTHIEA!!! Hello. How are you? Thanks for popping in with the birthday message. How's your mum? Love to Jed!!! Holly was sulking earlier in the week as she went for her annual booster injection!:( But was quickly back to her naughty self when we bought her a new toy for being a brave girl!:rolleyes: :)

Nothing remotely intelligent to say - sorry Faculty! So I'll say goodnight instead.

Goodnight.

The Cat Story is great - Elijah reads very very well, it is a pleasure to listen to. My 6 year old was transfixed :) (So was his mother :))

Great limericks, Maeglian!

I haven't seen the MTV awards - they'll go to air here next week. From the sound of things I guess I'd be better off just watching deluby's clips (thank you thank you thank you!) I am very impressed by Elijah Wood's (and Sean Astin's and Billy Boyd's) presence of mind in such silly-sounding circumstances. It's not as if they don't have wicked senses of humour, but they obviously also have a sense of what's appropriate!

Originally posted by Maeglian
And I'm *not* writing a limerick about EJW's upcoming Safe Sex appearance in the UK - but I trust the UK Facultiers will keep us informed even so?
What is this about?:confused:

Estella, in answer to your question - Shireling posted this in The Haven:

'UK members who get BBC3. On 10 June Elijah is apparently appearing on a programme called 'Sex, Warts and All USA' and he'll be talking about, ahem, safe sex!!! I'm not sure how long he's on for, whether its just a brief appearance or whether he talks at some length.'

So now you know!:)

And I meant to include this with my last post:

HAPPY BELATED BIRTHDAY LEC, WHEREVER YOU ARE!

Bye.

I've been struggling with websites all week so have just been trying to keep up with the reading here! But I wanted to add something to this --
Originally posted by estella rose
It's not as if they don't have wicked senses of humour, but they obviously also have a sense of what's appropriate!

Well, see, they have intelligent senses of humor (really wicked ones usually are :p ). That's why it just goes over some people's heads.

-------------------

I do have to say I don't think everyone in the "younger generation" is like that--probably a lot of the ones who eat, drink and breathe MTV are :( . Shortened attention spans and all :rolleyes: . But then someone like {{{Lutheia}}} or {{{Bridget}}} comes along and you realize there are some pretty intelligent :cool: people in Elijah's age group (besides Elijah, I mean :) ).

"Honest gentility," yes--made me think immediately of those poor baby monkeys on the Tonight Show and how Elijah was the only person there who seemed to understand (or care) how frightened they were. He really took something of a risk by not just laughing at them along with the "celebrities" he was sitting with.


--One MTV question: Was Elijah nominated for "best male performance" again this year? Who ended up winning that?

Some links to last night's MTVMA clips:

From War of the Ring: (all 4 award acceptance speeches .rm files, 10mb+ each)
http://www.warofthering.net/downloadmanager/pafiledb.php?action=category&id=1
Scroll down to the bottom.

From TORN: (gollum's acceptance speech only)

quicktime small (1.03mb) (http://img-nex.theonering.net/movies/gollum_mtvawards_Modem.mov)
quicktime medium (5.6mb) (http://img-nex.theonering.net/movies/gollum_mtvawards_BbandLo.mov)
quicktime large (8.2mb) (http://img-nex.theonering.net/movies/gollum_mtvawards_Bband.mov)


There're also 2 other clips from pre-show and post-show on the BEI site, but I can't play it on my media player because those clips require the lastest player, so I'm converting them right now. If anyone has the same problem I can upload them later when I'm done. :)


Tg---Viggo was nominated for the Best Male Performance award but it went to Eminem(or whatever his name is spelled). :o

I had something to say about the MTV awards and now I don't remember what it was.:o Must be my short attention span.;) (Thanks tgshaw.:k )

I do remember trying to tell Kirsten Dunst that she'd forgotten to button up her dress, but alas, she didn't hear me.:rolleyes: How can those women go up there with so little on?? HOW? I did think the opening sequence parodying "The Matrix" was kinda funny (though I wouldn't have known it was the N'Sync guys if they hadn't said so:p ) but the rest...well, I'm just glad I taped it and could fast-forward to the hobbity parts.;)

It was very very cool, though, to see such a quality movie as TTT win so many awards - I mean, put it up against the likes of "Jackass" and there's no contest at all.:rolleyes: Don't know quite what my point is, except I guess that it's so cool that us book-geeks and the MTV kids and everyone in between can all enjoy these movies.:cool: And it was very nice to see Elijah and Sean hanging out again, and not being afraid to say "yeah, it was our friendship that made this movie work" - as opposed to the N'Sync boys pretending they hate each other or whatever. Okay, I'll stop bashing MTV now and go get some sleep.:o ;)

Thanks for all the clips, deluby!:)

Also, I couldn't help thinking a little of Prim, seeing Keanu Reeves and Elijah Wood together on the same stage. A dream come true, or what?

:eek: :eek:

Could this be true??????

Oh no. Moral dilemma.

Rats. (translation: antiquated NZ expression of dismay and/or perplexity roughly equivalent to the American.."dang". )

EW on stage.

Mr Reeves (wooden qualities notwithstanding) on stage.


Yet... the appallingly shallow, sexist and (lets be honest...)tediously crappy MTV awards.

Double rats.

Triple rats!

.....wandering off to ponder moral values versus cheap thrills... :D ;)

*waves back to mariol*

hope you arrive safely home soon, back to Quicktime and your DVDs! ;) But in the meantime, if the problem is that there's no Quicktime with which to watch Elijah read, try this
windows media player(small) (http://www.bookpals.net/storyline/cat/content.vsml?package=283332&vsus=&vsps=&media=294327)


He is soooo adorable! Love it. Sheryl, glad you mentioned that bit about renting - instead of 'borrowing'. I was wondering if he literally meant that American libraries are all commercial enterprises nowadays! :D



EW on stage.

Mr Reeves (wooden qualities notwithstanding) on stage.

LOL. Go on Prim. Watch it. you know you must. ;)


Originally posted by Maeglian
And I'm *not* writing a limerick about EJW's upcoming Safe Sex appearance in the UK - but I trust the UK Facultiers will keep us informed even so?

Maeg, next time you say something like this, you gotta explain what you mean. The most surreal imaginings were going through my mind for a moment there ... :eek: :p So thanks Blossom, for setting things straight. :D

Btw, here's what Nat has to say about singing:

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-6/93723/PDVD_033.jpg


Finally upgraded my computer. disovering magnificent things like playing videos full screen, and the glory of screencapping DVDs. :D took me a bit of time to figure it out, but I finally managed to cap some from 'Forever Young'. Here're some froshadowy ones. Frodo is courtesy of http://maggiebear.crosswinds.net - I know there're better comparisons out there but I can't seem to find them now that I want them.

http://maggiebear.crosswinds.net/fellowship10/lotr094.jpg

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-6/93723/PDVD_001.jpg

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-6/93723/PDVD_011.jpg

http://maggiebear.crosswinds.net/fellowship09/lotr085.jpg

Links to the MTV MA postshow and preshow video clip:
Right-click-and-save please

edited days later: clips deleted. Elvellon has posted similar clips on her site so go there if you haven't got them.


Sorry about the poor quality though. :o Since I can't see the source video, I have no idea if the original video wasn't the best of quality or I'm doing something wrong during converting process. http://members.lycos.co.uk/duckycc/smilies/sweatdrop.gif


Nice froshadow caps, ainon, I especially like the second set. :)
Originally posted by ainon
*thwacks Maeg with a trout*
That's for putting the Spice Girls into my head. The nerve ... :mad: ;) :D
http://members.lycos.co.uk/duckycc/frospice.wmv

http://members.lycos.co.uk/duckycc/smilies/ducktomato.gif :D

ainon - sorry about that. :D I'm trying to think what you though it was all about ...... :D To make up for it, here's the link to BBC's program site for the night, with a couple of lines about the upcoming program up on top. Safe sex BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcthree/tvlistings/programme.shtml?day=tuesday&filename=20030610/20030610_2330_4288_39356_30)

Great Froshadowings! it's been too long since we've had any of those!

Thank you for the clips, Deluby. If it wasn't for you, Id never have gotten to see anything of that. :)


Love the squeaky spice girls thing!!! :D

Just thought I'd let you know that I've posted details about 'Try 17' at the Hugs Haven - WARNING!! HEAVY SPOILERS AND RUDE BITS I've just had the vcd of this and have also given details of where you can get this in an earlier post (at Hugs).

Maeg:
ainon - sorry about that. :D I'm trying to think what you though it was all about ......

I ain't telling. But shame on you for corrupting me. :o :o :p :D



http://members.lycos.co.uk/duckycc/frospice.wmv

If this is what I think it is then oooh, that's so cute! :cool: If it ain't, then I'm gonna have nightmares tonight. :p Thanks deluby, esp. for the MTV ones. Took me a long time to download them all on dial-up connection, but now I have them, and gonna go watch 'em now. :)

Btw, is it possible to screencap .wmv or Real Player videos?

Hi guys. I have returned from the other planet I've been visiting and thought I'd stop by and say howdy. :p I've missed you all! Haven't had a chance to read back far - has anything breathtakingly exciting happened? Anyone lost consciousness from cuteness overload of the "Me and My Cat" clip? Thanks for the screen caps of it, Deluby - those are amazingly adorable. :)

Well, lovely Faculty members, we might want to start up our question list again, because there is a chance that they may get to be asked. I still have a list of 20 questions, but the last time that file was updated was in October. Should I repost the list? Have there been any more recent ones?

ainon, it is possible to do screen caps from clips, though the quality is much better if you get them from the original tape/DVD. Is there anything in particular you'd like to have? kisses to you, btw. :k

Tackles Elve in joy!!! Welcome back! :k

A chance that our questions may be asked? What does that mean? :confused:

Maeg gives Elve a MEGA hug!! Welcome back! :)

You know, you nearly gave me a heart attack with this cryptic sentence:...there is a chance that they may get to be asked.What? When? Where? What? Are you meeting EJW in some connection where you will actually get to talk to him? Do tell!!

And apart from that, I am absolutely certain that I have a couple of new questions related to recent discussions here. I will return with them later today, no time just now, RL calls......

However, could someone *please* link to or mention where that previous list is to be found, because I'd like to have a look at it.

And I remember with certainty that there is one of my previous questions (can't remember exactly what) that I want to remove, as I felt it was too personal or something in hindsight.....


Hugs Elve once more for good measure! :)

Elve!!! *ainon jumps up and gives Elve a big, big squeezy hug* Where have you been?! Not that we've been missing you or anything. Just asking to be nice. :D

Welcome back, Elvellon. :k There's a chance, Elve? There is? Oh, I hope so! :k

ainon, it is possible to do screen caps from clips, though the quality is much better if you get them from the original tape/DVD.

I recently upgraded my computer, so I'm now discovering things like screencapping from DVDs and VCDs. ;) See? :D http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-6/93723/tom.jpg

I know, I know, I could have chosen something else!. :p So okay, there is this froshadowing. Nice angel, don't you guys think? ;)

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-6/93723/PDVD_010.jpg

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-6/93723/diluarMoria.jpg




I also tried, using ACDSee's screencapture option, to screencap stuff from Windows Media Player and RealPlayer, but all I got were black, empty spaces. :p I could screencap Quicktime videos. I think tg'd want to know how to screencap from Windows Media Player too, because I'd inadvertently copied 'The Witness' in a format that won't work with the DVD software. Sorry, tg. :o I'd only copied the file that contained 'The Witness'; I know now that what I should have done was made a complete copy of my VCD. That way you'd also have been able to watch the rest of 'Perverse Destiny'. :D :D


*another big welcome back and good night hug for Elve*


Shireling ... I'll reply to your PM tomorrow. *hugs* :)

Posted by ainon
I know, I know, I could have chosen something else! :p.
Brunhild delurks and slaps ainon with a besar ikan :D :D.

(((((peaceweaver, maeglian, ainon))))) Thanks for the wonderful welcome!!! I feel like I've had the wind knocked out of me. :D

There's a chance, Elve? There is? Oh, I hope so.

There is actually a chance! The details are still being worked out now, but I'll let you all know as soon as I know more what's going on. Maeg, I have the list of questions in a word processing doc at home, I can post them later when I get there.

ainon, your screen caps are impressive! You are becoming quite high tech. Love the one from Forever Young, and even the Tom Thumb one is rather flattering (am I still the only one who doesn't think it was the worst thing ever put on film? :p ). I'm not sure about doing caps with Windows Media files, but I know it's possible, as I've seen others do it. Sometimes there are paid versions of the software that includes more features... I know quicktime works that way, but I'm not as familiar with any of microsoft's software. It could probably also be done with some video editing software as well.

Lots of hobbit love to all... :k

Hi, Elve :cool: (standing back a bit to let you get back on your feet :p ).

Originally posted by Elvellon
There is actually a chance! The details are still being worked out now, but I'll let you all know as soon as I know more what's going on. Maeg, I have the list of questions in a word processing doc at home, I can post them later when I get there.
If it was done in October, I'm sure there are more questions. Besides TTT questions, I'd like to know if he got any/much direction for his final scene in Ash Wednesday, or if it "came out of him." [On a practical level, I'd like to ask him if he can get us a copy of Day-O! That's been the most elusive little...]

(am I still the only one who doesn't think it was the worst thing ever put on film? :p ).
No, just the worst thing with Elijah J. Wood in it that's ever been put on film :p . If you have something to challenge that with, I'm not sure I want to know :eek: .

I'm not sure about doing caps with Windows Media files, but I know it's possible, as I've seen others do it. Sometimes there are paid versions of the software that includes more features... I know quicktime works that way, but I'm not as familiar with any of microsoft's software. It could probably also be done with some video editing software as well.
ainon--At the moment I'm so swamped--in both real life and virtual life--that I'm not mourning the lack of screencapping ability for The Witness! I'm sure my (very low tech) skills are being passed up left, right, and sideways... I have no idea how to get screencaps from a video.

And I feel like I'm falling down on the job regarding crebain serving. I thought I had a series of pics just about ready to go from the Black Gate--only had to go back in and get a couple of shots I was missing :rolleyes: . Ended up with a few hundred more screencaps to sort through, many with stuff I hadn't noticed before.

A few "research results" to report, though--yesasia.com now has the VCD with The Witness on it for sale (Perverse Destiny III--did I get it right that time :o ?), which I'm sure would be screencappable ;) . They still have Chain of Fools (you won't find it if you just search for "Elijah Wood," though--he's third on their credits list and doesn't show up on a search). Also VCDs of Ash Wednesday and various versions of FotR. And--I'm actually tempted by this one--Flipper on VCD, which means it could be screencapped (it's not on DVD in region 1). They also have The War on VCD, but very expensive compared to their usual prices; probably costs as much as the DVD would in the U.S. IIRC, except for Chain of Fools, all of those are recent additions to yesasia.com, which is an interesting development.

I'd actually gone to yesasia to check on Try 17, since it's been released in the Philippines, but no luck. I think it has to make it to China (including Hong Kong), Korea or Japan before they carry it. Although I want to see that movie, I'm not in as big a hurry as some are... ;)

Are we ready for a bit of Faculty collaboration actually having an effect somewhere outside this thread :eek: ? A couple of weeks ago, I noticed IMDb still had Thumbsucker on EW's filmography (and the fantypes on the message board there were agonizing over "will he or won't he"). So I used the function they have to make changes to the database to suggest it be taken off--when they asked for "evidence," I referenced the interview BunnyBugs had posted. I got a notice saying it usually took a couple of weeks for them to check out sources, etc., in order to decide if something should be changed--but less than a week later it was off the filmography! (I suppose they're used to dealing with gossip rather than actual research :p .)

And I just have to post this here (I've already dropped it off in the Hugs Haven, but there's nothing "swoony" about it--well, not much, and even that's more funny than swoony)! I'm not sure what my head's been doing lately--or where it is right now--but at least I know that whenever I look at this I'll laugh :D :
http://www.angelfire.com/scary/evilpenguins/

I thought back on the discussions we've had here recently, and thought the following questions might possibly be added.....
What do you all think, is this too specific or of little or no general interest, or poorly worded? Should other things rather be asked instead?


- In general, do you enjoy explaining and commenting on Frodo and you own performance, direction and "motivation" in cast commentary tracks and interviews, or would you rather leave the interpretation of Frodo and his experiences to your audience, based as much as possible directly on the films and your acting there?


- Have you come across any satire, serious interpretations or public "use" of LotR or Frodo that you thought were disrespectful or that made you uncomfortable?


- After TTT premiered, have you had many positive or negative comments or reactions from fans concerning comparisons between the book and film, both for LotR generally and for Frodo specifically? What are the most common ones, if so?


Edit:
I thought of another one. Remember a while ago there was discussion about giving him a gift as a sincere "thank you"? What about asking him what fans might do to thank him in a way he'd actually appreciate, yet being neither intrusive nor adding to his mountain of fans' teddy bears and other stuff?

OK, since there is actually a chance that the questions might be put to Mr. Wood, I have spent some time today over at CoE rereading the thread there. (It was actually quite nostalgic, and sad :( ). But here is the list of questions that Elve had distilled last fall:


Here are the questions I have so far. Luthiea I updated yours, because the older version wasn't quite as detailed. Anyone else let me know if I am missing something...

1. Why do you on occasion take photographs at public appearences? ~ Maeglian

2. How did you know which scenes to pick from the book for your audition tape? How did you get into character by just reading the relevant paragraphs? We will one day see this audition video, yes? ~ ainon

3. Would you like to act on stage? Why, or why not? Have you been offered stage acting roles? What kind of role would you like to try? ~ Maeglian

4. Could you compare your own way of acting to the technique known as "Method Acting"? ~ Maeglian

5. Are you in fact in negotiations, or already signed on, to play the lead in "Mort the Dead Teenager"? If yes, what is currently the status of that project, when do you think filming will take place? ~ Maeglian

6. What is your favourite film from the golden age of cinema, and who was your favourite actor/actress from that era? What movie/part from this era would you liked to have acted in? ~ Luthiea

7. Mac or Windows? ~ Elve

8. Are you aware how many women old enough to your be mum are either 1. admiring you and your acting? or 2. absolutely drooling over your character in LOTR? ~ queen2120

9. Some of the films you acted in as a child dealt with dark and serious topics such as for instance child abuse or WW2 concentration camps. Did those distressing themes and storylines ever frighten you or impact you emotionally at the time, and if so, how did you deal with that? ~ Maeglian

10. How do you prepare for your scenes: if you're sad and you need to cry, do you have to think of something sad? How do you handle other scenes then, where you display pain or shock? ~ ainon

11. Would you be willing to see you own child acting as young as you did, and if so, what would you do differently than your mom did with you? Were there any specific occurrences in your acting career you'd want your child to avoid? ~ sheryl

12. Have you ever thought of doing a film based on gothic fiction or else some other known literature? And also have you ever thought about working with Kevin Smith or M. Night Shyamalan (some of my favorites) or are there actors that you want to work with now or have and want to again?" ~ Hobbit Lover



Along with the BIG question formulated by tg:

I've realized my problem with coming up with questions is that if I really had the chance to ask Elijah anything, I'd just have one question--but repeated as many times as possible about a variety of scenes and shots: How did you do that!?

Adding Maeg's questions. Are there others?

Originally posted by Maeglian
Edit:
I thought of another one. Remember a while ago there was discussion about giving him a gift as a sincere "thank you"? What about asking him what fans might do to thank him in a way he'd actually appreciate, yet being neither intrusive nor adding to his mountain of fans' teddy bears and other stuff?
Oh, that sounds like a wonderful question--and one he might really appreciate being asked. He might even suggest a contribution to one of the organizations he's worked with.

Edit: Of the ones peaceweaver listed (how did you sneak in there so fast :) ?), I think the one I'd most like to hear his answer to is the one about acting in movies with dark themes as a child. IIRC, we had a good discussion about that one, and it'd be interesting to hear what he'd have to say about it.

Thank you, Peaceweaver. :)

Well, having seen the list of previous question, I'd say that:

no. 1 (about taking photographs) should probably go - isn't it kind of too personal?

no. 5 - (Mort the dead teenager) should probably go too? If he isn't doing Thumbsucker he isn't likely to do that Mort thing either.....

Edit:
And no. 7 - Mac or Windows - I think he answered to Elve's full satisfaction some time back... :D


If we're doing the "How did you DO that?" question, why not pick one or two scenes and ask specifically about those? - tg?

Originally posted by tgshaw
No, just the worst thing with Elijah J. Wood in it that's ever been put on film :p .

My thought exactly! I'll take your word that Witness and Child in the Night are better.

I love the intelligent questions, especially Maeg's last one.
I've thought if I ever got a (brief) chance to meet him I'd just want to shake his hand and thank him for his work.

RL beckons.

Peaceweaver, the Faculty - and especially Maeg, what brilliant questions to put to Elijah!

Something I have thought about recently:

Are you conscious of your emergence as a potential role-model for your younger fans? If so, does this aspect of increased public attention/fame concern or trouble you in any way?

Perhaps that would be too personal - I'm not sure.

On a more career-based note:

In view of the LOTR films being shot out of sequence, how did you set about making the transition from happy/innocent Frodo to Ring-possessed/manic Frodo as and when required? How much of an acting challenge was this?

Did you 'find' the darker side of Frodo in yourself, or did your empathy, understanding and increasing familiarity of and with the character simply take over?

Maeg - Yes, I think Tg should ask Elijah questions on specific scenes regarding 'How does he DO that?' In order to satisfy our curiosity/awe fully, he would need to keep a week or two free, of course. I wonder if he knows just how closely his wonderful portrayal of our beloved Frodo has been studied here.

I'm hoping that this time these questions will actually be put to Elijah Wood, now that the preliminaries are done with. A year ago the press was just finishing up informing the casual fangirls (and themselves I might add :rolleyes: ) on the basics of What is a Hobbit and Yes We Spent Two Years in New Zealand Filming all Three Movies at Once and Oh the Feet Smelled Bad and Yes You can See the Tattoo Again and Yep I'm Still Single.

Intersestingly, for TTT I'm didn't see a crop of ubiquitous questions (i.e. the Tattoo). It seems the general interest in LotR has died down a little even if its potential hasn't, as if the FotR publicity did its job and the fans will do the rest. LotR doesn't need to show up on the cover of Entertainment Weekly again; indeed I suspect Rotk will quietly make its $375M right under the press junket radar.

Welcome back, Elvellon!! :k I was just thinking about you the other day when looking for MTV clips around the net because I always d/l stuff from your site and am totally spoiled. :o :p I am so glad to see you back again!

So those questions may get to Elijah huh? :cool: I can't think of any myself but I love all the stuff that the Faculty have come up with, so I'm enjoying reading the list. :)


RE:screencapping: I use PowerDVD to screencap .avi and .mpg files, quicktime has screencap function on the player itself, for other windows media file like .wmv and .asf and realmedia(.rm, .ram) I have to convert them to .avi or .mov before capture.
And I think I read something about copying/burning VCD in the Hug thread, some cd burning software has a VCD-burning feature, the source media has to be .avi or .mpg/.mpeg and it has to be about 50mb-100mb smaller than the CD you are burning onto(usually 650 or 700mb). When you choose the source file, the cd burner will automatically create several folders like the ones you see when opening a VCD on the computer. The finished VCD should contain a big .dat file and should be playable on some DVD player.
OK, now you'll all gonna trout me because, um, I actually haven't tried that on my cd burner. http://members.lycos.co.uk/duckycc/smilies/trout.gif http://members.lycos.co.uk/duckycc/smilies/ducktomato.gif :o I think I have some .avi file that's about the right size, I just need to find the cd burner installation disc(it's in a box somewhere, I think :o) to reinstall the vcd burning feature(I didn't think I would need it when I first installed it. :rolleyes: ). So anyway, I'll let you know if it really works.


Okay after all the cd burning nonsense now I remember what I was gonna post:

this
http://img-nex.theonering.net/images/tfnl/gollum.jpg

http://members.lycos.co.uk/duckycc/smilies/bigeyes.gif

Grrr... I had a huge long post typed out and my browser crashed... now I only have time for a very condensed version, including the remaining questions from the list I have:

14. Do you lurk on Imladris/Council of Elrond, and if so, what do you think of your loyal haremites and Faculty members and their indepth analysis? ~ Eyrie

15. Now that you are done making the movies (barring any more pick-up shots in the future), do you ever plan to read it in the future or are you all LotRed-out? ~ Eyrie

16.What is your opinion of your career compared with McCauley Culkin's. What do you think about how your careers have gone since the early nineties? ~ Eyrie

17. How did you do that!? ~ tgshaw

18. 'Okaayy now, Elijah - for our 12th question - Would you please confirm that you did not wear a prosthetic nose during filming for Lord of the Rings!' ~ Lutheia

19. There is some pretty wild gossip and speculation about you on the internet; are you able to insulate yourself from that, possibly just laugh it off, or do you find that it sometimes affects you? Do you feel that it's an invasion of privacy and disrespectful, or can you just shrug it off as part of the territory?

20. "If Tolkien were alive today and you got the chance to meet him, what would you say to him or ask him?" ~ Luthiea

I'll add Maeg's and Blossom's questions and note the ones that we should delete.

tg, I think possibly that EW "singing" the spice girls clip might be worse than Tom Thumb! :p It's the voice.

Hi Deluby! I have tons of clips that aren't posted on my site, so if you need anything for your compilation, feel free to email or PM me. I think I have all the hobbits' US TV appearances since December 2001.

That DVD collector's edition makes me happy! I am thrilled they are using Gollum!

All the US folks: don't forget about Elijah on Primetime Glick tomorrow night, 8 PM EDT on Comedy Central. Glick is hugely annoying, but I bet it will be a non-standard interview which will be cool. If all goes well, I'll have a clip up before I go to bed.

Originally posted by nurse
My thought exactly! I'll take your word that Witness and Child in the Night are better.
The Witness is actually something I'd recommend generally--not just to Elijah Wood or Gary Sinese fans. At first it can seem like a "Yeah, yeah, seen it before," story, but IMHO Sinese's German soldier is a complex character if you watch for the subtleties (hey, we're good at that, right :p ?). Elijah doesn't do a lot, but that's essential to the story as I understand it (that this kid is really looking at the soldier blankly, but the soldier looks at the blank face and reads his own emotions there--I suppose the case could be made that it takes some talent for an 8-year-old to look emotionless under the circumstances ;) ).

Child in the Night, OTOH, isn't bad but it isn't great, either (just think mediocre TV police detective show). It's probably not something I'd recommend to the "general public," but the fantasy scenes do show some of Elijah's early talent. (And, of course, for anyone who'd get a warm feeling just seeing "Introducing Elijah Wood" on the screen... :) ). BTW, the same site visitor who gave me some news about CofF awhile back just sent me a note that there are a few more used copies of CitN available at amazon.com. (I'm trying to encourage her to drop into the Faculty Lounge--she'd fit right in :) !)

(And I'm taking deluby's word for whatever she said in a foreign language there :o . We owe so much to the people who actually understand computerese :k !)

---Just saw Elve's (shortened :( ) post--The squeaked Spice Girls song is a possible candidate (although IMHO different rules apply when something's supposed to be funny :p ). But I'm afraid if we start opening up the "worst thing on film" category to outtakes and off-the-cuff comments, we could get into dangerous :p :eek: territory!

--------------

On the questions--my next suggestion was going to be Eyrie's #15, about reading the book (especially since all the shooting now seems to be over). I'm curious as to whether he somewhat purposely avoided the book in the same way that some actors avoid meeting a real-life person they're portraying.

IMO, Lutheia gets the prize for from-the-ridiculous-to-the-sublime :p ! LOL about the "prosthetic nose" question (I'd forgotten all about that one!). But the one about meeting Tolkien is great.

-------------

And, yes, I believe Glick is supposed to be annoying ;) .

Thank you for sharing your screencap prowess, Deluby. I may invest in a real program (such as PowerDVD) someday.

Thanks for posting the questions, Peaceweaver, Maeglian, Blossom, and Elvellon. I agree with the ones that should be deleted. Some of the remaining one's in pw's list (#9-11 on dark themes, preparation, child acting) and Blossom's out-of-sequence filming one are particularly interesting to me.

Regarding the newest batch that Elvellon posted, I think #14, while interesting (do you lurk here) will be an absolute no (not even we have time), and I thought Maeg's question re his response to any analysis would probably get us to the same place. I'm willing to be overruled on this one! I think #16 is too personal (comparing his career with McCauley Culkin's). He has to work with these people.

Anyway, those are just my thoughts. Ignore them as you see fit. Cheers, everyone!

Edited for spelling: "hims" career -eek! Spell McCawley anyway you want to, tg!

Just to second mariol's comment on the Macaully Culkin question (hmmm... I used to know how to spell that :o ...), especially since MC is just now trying to get back into acting "on his own terms" rather than his father's. It could be a bit sensitive at this point (which probably wasn't so much the case when the question was first suggested).

deluby, thanks for posting that gift set. Don't it just give everyone the warm fuzzies to see sweet-faced 'innocent' Frodo lurking in the background there? :)

Originally posted by deluby
RE:screencapping: I use PowerDVD to screencap .avi and .mpg files, quicktime has screencap function on the player itself, for other windows media file like .wmv and .asf and realmedia(.rm, .ram) I have to convert them to .avi or .mov before capture.

Okay. Thanks. I think I understand now that I won't know how to do this. :p :D What's the Quicktime method for screencapping? I know you explained it to us before ... :o


OK, now you'll all gonna trout me because, um, I actually haven't tried that on my cd burner.

Actually, guess what? For copying VCDs, all you need to do is just to copy it. :D Everything on one CD to another. It's that simple -- except obviously I didn't figure out it was that simple before I burned 'The Witness' for tg! :p (btw, tg - don't you go buying 'Perverse Destiny' off some website when you can get the 'genuine article' from me! :D :D )

Anyway, I recently burned a couple of video CD movies and tried the VCD copies on my DVD-ROM, my DVD player and my VCD player. Worked okay each and every time. :)

Oh, but I suppose there could be one major consideration: differences in hardware. :eek: I'm wondering now if machines here work the same way they do in the States. :o I mean, over here, all our DVD players, be it a Sony or a Pioneer, or any of the cheap obscure brands, are practically Region Free. We can play any DVD from any region without any problems. Our DVD players can also automatically play VCDs, MP3s, MPEG, etc. How does it work over there?

A couple of quick comments to the new batch of old questions:


I second Mariole, I suppose, in saying:

Please don't ask him directly about lurking at KD! If I knew from EJW himself he is actually ever lurking here, I'd probably delete my posts and stop posting altogether. ( :rolleyes: at self big time, but there you have it! )

And please don't ask him about career comparisons with McCauley Culkin (sp?) either. For one thing, I do believe I've seen EJW comment about that (or similar questions about comparing his career to that of other former child stars) already in at least one interview, and actually I feel it's hurtful for MC, and not something EJW can answer anyway in other than the most general and polite terms.

Also I'm wondering whether no. 12 doesn't contain too many questions piled into one. Perhaps we should limit it to one or two of them?


Still wondering about this flurry of question-asking, though. What is happening, Elve?


Happy birthday, Voronwe!! :) :) :)

(I was casting around for a Shakespeare-related birthday quote, but came up blank on that. :o Perhaps in one of the sonnets? Have a wonderful birthday anyway! :) )

This is a Q that would fit in with the "method acting/how do you do that" questions:

What is PJ's directorial style? For example, does he merely sketch out a situation and allow the actors to add their own physical acting, body language, and facial experessions to fill out the character? Or is PJ more of a micromanaging director, specifically asking for certain motions or voice inflection? Was his style always the same, or did he tailor his direction based on the actor or the situation? (or how much time he had that day? :p)

This question help us with that old microexpression vs. repetoire debate. It may also explain who was deciding which type of "scared" they needed from Frolijah.

Oh dear, it didn't take me long to get sucked back in... I'm already posting from work! :eek:

Originally posted by tgshaw

I'm curious as to whether he somewhat purposely avoided the book in the same way that some actors avoid meeting a real-life person they're portraying. [/B]

I have always thought this was the case. It's the difference between learning and discovering things for yourself organically, or memorizing pre-existing facts and copying that. In my opinion, he wanted to take the bare bones of who Frodo is and what he does, and then discover the essence of that being internally. Rereading and analyzing the book may have concretized the character too much for him, making it harder to become the character from the inside out.

Regarding ainon's VCD/DVD questions, most DVD players sold in the US now say they play all types of discs, but that's not always reliable. It all depends on the player, on the software used to make the copy, and even on the brand of disc used. I have a DVD burner and so far almost everyone I have made DVD copies for has been able to play them (all original material of course... :)), the only problems being copies burned on memorex discs. I use an application called Toast, which will make exact duplicates of anything: CDs, VCDs, DVDs, etc... and it is very good at producing discs that will work with any player. I haven't yet copied any discs for folks outside of region 1, but it's my understanding that this software makes discs that will play in any region. I have received discs from people in other regions and they worked fine on my players.

I agree with what you are all saying about the questions, and will make notes and organize them accordingly.

I think it's "Macaulay."

Hi, Elve!:) :)

I may be the lonely dissenter--as usual :rolleyes:--but I must confess being wary of this questioning idea. The mental image I can't get rid of is of EJW quietly playing the latest version of The Monkey Island :p when a group of fans bursts into his virtual private space with a list of questions. Worse still, the fans are not complete jerks and the questions are not entirely inane, so that the poor man really has to waste his time answering them instead of talking to important looking pirates about swag and grog :p. It should be possible to let EJW know that his artistic work is greatly appreciated without giving him any more press-type work to do.

-------------

Happy Birthday Voronwe!
Age cannot wither her, nor custom stale
Her infinite variety...

Brunhild, that assumes that the questioning would take place outside of a standard press opportunity. Knowing Elve, though she won't say as much, I'm thinking she has, in fact, managed to wrangle somoe sort of 'press' opportunity where he would be expecting questions, and available to answer them. People here have long wished that, in these situations, some less standard and more interesting questions could be answered than are the usual fare at such events.

I think pretty much every member of the Faculty would respect EW's video playing time, and would not use a chance encounter to pepper him with questions. Respectful bunch, is the Faculty. :)

Brunhild...hmmm. I'm wavering on whether to agree with this or not. On one hand, I think EW would enjoy answering technical questions about the work part of work. It would certainly be less a waste of time than patiently explaining to Jay Leno that yes his mom still does his laundry. :rolleyes: (Sometimes I wonder if he only tolerates the junket publicity because he knows that women are paying attention to him, and attention from women is never ever a bad thing.)

On the other hand, I wonder if EW would be frustrated in answering these questions. As far as I know, as an actor, he just wings it, like the secondary instinct that the athletes have. He may not know the answers, or be able to articulate the answers. Or maybe he just wants people to leave him alone. I don't know.

erendis--There's one more difficulty indeed. Most "interesting questions" are variations of "How do you do it?" Now imagine approaching Itzhak Perlman, the famous violinist, and asking him:

- Itzy, old man, I don't know the first thing about fiddle'n'bow but can you tell me how do you perform the Brahms Concerto so beautifully?
- Mmm, - mumbles the virtuoso, - I've been playing the violin since I was a little boy, and I've listened to Isaac Stern and Nathan Milstein a lot, and Zubin Mehta once told me to play the Adagio tenderly...

Maybe let us leave them artists to junket questions that are at least easily answerable? :)

Brunhild, I would very much agree with you if these questions were to be asked EJW in a situation where he had not made himself available to press and / or fans specifically for the purpose of answering questions. I would never dream of imposing on the poor guy if he hadn't agreed to be available anyway. Knowing Elve, I took it for granted that the questions would be asked in relation to such an "official" event, as I am sure she'll confirm in due course.

Given that, from all I've seen and read he's a very intelligent guy who is able to reflect over the questions asked and give considered and serious replies, to deflect things he doesn't want to answer with ease, and to be honest about actually not knowing the answers. So all in all, in such a situation I think respectful questions that haven't already been asked over and over again would not be inappropriate.

First, a very Happy Birthday, Voronwe! And I don't know any birthday quotes from the Bard, either.

Originally posted by Maeglian
Knowing Elve, I took it for granted that the questions would be asked in relation to such an "official" event, as I am sure she'll confirm in due course.
IIRC, the original list was made for an "official event"--even though they didn't get asked :( . Definitely, if Elve (and the rest of us ;) ) weren't respectful of Elijah's privacy, we would have asked him a lot more questions than that, already :p (hmmm... and we haven't even mentioned measuring his facial features for quite some time now :p )!

Given that, from all I've seen and read he's a very intelligent guy who is able to reflect over the questions asked and give considered and serious replies, to deflect things he doesn't want to answer with ease, and to be honest about actually not knowing the answers.
And even in a situation like the one Erendis brings up, where his acting is "second instinct" and he doesn't really think about it--that seems to me to be a perfectly fine response. "I don't know, it just happens," would answer an awful lot of our questions, anyway! (And we certainly wouldn't play the game of some interviewers, whose aim is to get something out of him that he doesn't want to talk about :rolleyes: .)

I just read Shireling's account (in Hugs) of that "Safe sex" appearance of EJW's on BBC. Now there's an "interview situation" that sounds totally cringeworthy and utterly impolite. :(

Originally posted by tgshaw
First, a very Happy Birthday, Voronwe! And I don't know any birthday quotes from the Bard, either.


How about this one?

There was a star danced, and under that was I born.
--William Shakespeare Much Ado About Nothing

I like Brunhild's better, though.

Happy birthday, Voronwe!

I'm with mariol on which questions to drop, and with Maeglian on the theory that he'll know how to dodge any if they're in a legit interviewing situation (which I trust it would be). Maeg's also dead on about the safe sex thingie. :rolleyes: Golly, the hugs thread has been right lively lately! :)

Sheryl

Originally posted by shilohmm
How about this one?

There was a star danced, and under that was I born.
--William Shakespeare Much Ado About Nothing

I like Brunhild's better, though.


Ah, but the Much Ado quote is one of my favorites...there aren't a whole lot of others, at any rate. ;)

Thanks so much for the birthday wishes, everyone! :D

So, how about "Do you *know* how you did that?" (and maybe, "do you always know or only sometimes know?").


I've found it interesting that directors have repeatedly said that he takes direction well. From what I've heard PJ's direction has ranged from the general to the specific. For the former, PB or FW said Elijah said Peter's "your grief should scare an audience" was very helpful. For the latter, Elijah's comment (I can't remember when or where :( ) that he and PJ were working out "how to show... that on my face". I can't remember the exact quote but I got the impression it was a very specific discussion.
I especially loved the "Frodo is silent. You make up the rest." What I wouldn't give to have been around for that creation!

'Night (or morning or afternoon). I love this place and only hope I can one day be as insightful, articulate or at least hi-tech as you all. ((faculty))

Happy Birthday, Voronwe!