Hi, Faculty!

Just read the chat transcripts. Not super-bad, even a couple of new questions.:rolleyes:

That Jessica-the-moderator-gal had been flirting with Elwood all the time. How unprofessional! :D I say fire her! And then... how and where do I submit my resume for that vacancy?...:D

Anyway, this bit entertained me immensely:Elijah Wood: It actually drives you more crazy when they print something that's true. I find the stuff that's not true to be really funny and easy to -- because you are in a righteous position at that point because you know you had nothing to do with it or whatever it is they're printing is completely false.
It puts you in a position of, you know, freedom. Even though you feel like if it's something really intense, you have that moment where you feel like you have to speak out against it. Most of the time, I don't even care. I think it can be really funny. Especially when they put you with, like, in terms of dating, they put you with people that you would never have dated. Why would they ever write that?

Host Jessica: They're like Elijah Wood and Christina Aguilera.

Elijah Wood: Some stuff is so good you don't want to contest it. You want to let people believe what they want to believe. What a great comeback line. :D He manages to show how rediculous the rumor is, and to be courtcheous to the host, and to compliment Christina A. at the same time! A perfect gentleman. I applaude his small talk skills!

[back to lurking]
:k

First things first: Hi Faculty! Does anyone want some roasted Web Monkeys?:mad:

A had a rather interesting post, but I'm quite mad right now and don't feel like writing it all out again. Maybe I'll edit this later.

For now, I leave you with a quote from a wise haremite: "Photoshop giveth and Photoshop taketh away"
I think the cover of that magazine looks much better like this:):

all fixed (http://www.imgmag.org/images/daisytighfield/lijfixed.jpg)

G'day everyone. Ah, the day is drawing nearer... :p

Even though it was mainly the same tired questions we've geard a million times, there was a couple of good nuggets in those chats... an actual acting question or two slipped into the msn one. I liked how he talked about being able to turn off the character at the end of the day... very un-method-like, as we have previously discussed. It's very cool he's hosting an hour of videos on MTV - can't wait to see that! I highly commend his taste in music, I have yet to be disappointed in one of his recommendations. Recently got the Queens of the Stone Age album and am loving it.

Also am quite glad to hear he will most likely still be doing Thumbsucker. So if Keanu Reeves, Tilda Swinton, Vincent D'Onofrio and Scarlet Johanssen are all on board, it should at least get a theatrical release. Is that wishful thinking on my part? :D Please, just one tiny film is all we ask! I still think Keanu will play the hippy dentist.

Has anyone else seen the MTV "Making the Game" special? It's interesting to see Elijah do the Frodo voice-over. He slightly puts on the Frodo face, but not completely, but the voice is completely Frodo. Very odd to see a hybrid Elijah/Frodo thing happening: Frodo's voice, Elijah's clothes, hair and scruff, and sort of Frodo's face. I'll be making clips of it if I can get my lazy butt in gear! (wish me luck)

I don't think this has been posted here. The full Starz Two Towers preview is available at warofthering.net (http://www.warofthering.net/downloads/miscfootage.shtml). Elijah's TRL appearance is also there.

I absolutely LOVE that magazine cover Luthiea posted! Where in the world is that magazine available? I'm with tg, I would love to read that article. Hopefully it'll show up somewhere. Where did you get that photo, Luthiea? Maybe they have the article scanned. I am also wondering where to get Parade. Doesn't that come in the Sunday paper in the US? That's easy enough to get.

I agree with everyone that it's not very fair that Elijah has to do the whole US press thing all by himself. I think Viggo, Liv and Sean have only one appearance each, and Elijah has tons. Next weeek he has the LA premiere, The Early Show, the Caroline Rhea show and Leno, then he has to be in Wellington on the 19th. At least he gets to go on that nice relaxing vacation to the northern England farmhouse for New Years... he sure deserves it! And I must say, I wouldn't be sad to see Dom and Billy doing more appearances... they are just too funny, even though they probably shouldn't be let loose on live TV!

And now for some thanks and howdies:

Vita, thanks for tracking down that info on videoeta.com! Sounds encouraging, though I can't help but have a "I'll believe it when I see it" attitude after the whole Chain of Fools thing.

Bridget, thank you so very very much for taking the time to save the old thread and post it on your site! :k

Elevensies - love that PJ and Elwood photo... something about it really captures their essence, doesn't it?

Hello to Tata and LEK, good to see you guys popping in here! :)

Hi gang, no time to post much now. Shilohmm, I tried to PM you but your "in" box was full. I'll try again tomorrow. I managed to catch TRL. Did anyone else notice that the host either didn't see FOTR, or doesn't remember it very well? He went on and on about how in FOTR, Frodo kept running around saying "Gotta find the Ring, gotta find the Ring!" Uh, excuse me, fella, Frodo knew exactly where the Ring was, and spent about two-thirds of the movie trying to give it away.

And I think Elwood has been watching Dom and Billy's little discourse on "bosoms" in the TTT special. He mentioned Mariah Carey's rather pointedly, I thought, after her video was played. :D The TRL audience looked kind of surprised to hear it come out of his mouth, though. It made me think that Elwood thinks that most, if not all, of her "musical" appeal to the masses is somewhere "south" of her vocal cords. Not that's she's any worse than any of her "peers" in that regard. (Apologies to any Mariah Carey fans out there, but, well, I agree with Elwood.)

Uh oh. Check the weather report for the temperature in Hades! Word over at TORN is that Roeper (and Ebert) gave TTT two thumbs up! Now I know we're in trouble. Either that, or...wait!!!! Is that a Nazgul?????? No, it's Four Horsemen!!!!!! Behold, a pale horse..... AAArrrrrrggggghhhhhh!!!!!!!!

LOL Louise- duck!!!:eek: :D

Actually- when I first saw the horse and rider in FoTR the Horsemen of the Apocalypse is exactly what popped into my head.I bet Jackson was drawing on this image too.

re Ebert et al: they're just too scared to get it so very wrong again that's all. FoTR's popularity gave them enough egg on face for an omelette :p

edit: I still can't see Elevensies pic. No red cross, nuttin. Did you remove it Elevensies???

Hi to Daisy!

nd thanks for the revised version of the magazine cover -as one whose pet peeve is smoking having the offending item removed definitely gives you a gold star in my book!

very bad example...reminds me of all the criticism kate moss (the model) got when she smoked, and especially while she was pregnant.

I thought the questions on msn chat were pretty good. especially when EW said that some of the questions he was asked were not the usual ones that he must get SOOO bored with answering.

Azalea Baggins (sis) let me know about a great nz magazine called Pavement which had about 40 pages of intelligent interviews with most of the big and not so big characters in TTT -including Bernard Hill and Brad Dourif (some of it was LOL funny). The captions on the photos were irreverant a la Empire mag ..e.g one of Faramir pointing his bow and arrow at someone (outside the pic) entitled "Faramir pointing the way to Arrowtown" (Arrowtown being a small goldrush town in the middle of the south island of nz).
...another one of the cast members leaving Edoras for Helm's Deep "extras carrying film equipment to difficult locations to help keep a lid on TLOTR budget" :D

If I have more time I may post a few more tidbits..
viola

Hello all.

I'm having trouble keeping up with all the review/interviews you're all linking to. It is fun, but I don't think I'll catch up this side of Christmas! Thanks a lot anyway.

Have caught a few snippets on UK TV programmes. Billy was on one of the day-time shows during the week, and on Friday GMTV's Entertainment Today slot featured TTT Paris premier. (Did you see it, Luthiea?) Dom and Billy were on, as were Christopher Lee and Brad Dourif, oh, and Liv.

There was a short (very short) piece with Elijah, and he said, 'As an actor it was challenging to map out the chronology of Frodo's descent... dealing with that kind of darkness was a lot of fun.' Er... Fun?!

Back in the studio, the presenter, Ben Shepherd, said he was talking to Dom and Billy and they told him that they had gone out with Elijah for Dom's birthday,(on 9th Dec?) and the paparazzi had trailed them across Paris calling, 'Eleeeejah! Eleeeejah!' They seemed to think it was highly amusing.

I had been a bit disappointed reading the article at theonering by the girl who waited outside the theatre to see the gang arrive at the premier, when she said Elijah had rushed past without signing any autographs etc. Well, during the clip on GMTV he definitely signed SOME autographs - I have it on tape to prove it, and you can hear a Frenchman calling 'Eleeeejah!' off camera. Elijah looked up, smiling, and said, 'Hello.' Lovely.:)

There have been more than a few presenters over here referring to the flm as 'the sequel' - I could scream when they do that! In fact I sometimes do - Blossom yells, 'It isn't a sequel, you fools, it's the second part of a trilogy!' - not that it makes any difference.

EE, I've only just noticed (just in time) that the 'Return to Middle-Earth' special is on in the UK ITV central region TODAY, SATURDAY 14th DEC, at 12.30pm. You said it was on sometime on Sunday the 15th where you are. Being ITV it's probably on in different areas at different times. Well it's 12.10pm now, so I'm off to sort a tape out.

Bye.

A few bits and pieces on some of the above--

Daisy--when I try to see the "revised" magazine cover you posted, I get a "remote linking forbidden" :eek: notice. And, yes, I'd love some roasted web monkeys--haven't had any for a few days. Just add a nice chablis... :rolleyes:

Blossom--Somewhat in Elijah's defense, I did read an article on the premier that mentioned "handlers" rushing the stars along. Maybe they were more concerned with him than with JRD? Although I agree it was wonderful of JRD to put the effort into meeting the fans after his hospital stay--I feel sorry for him every time I read an account of everything he had to go through for filming, especially when he mentions how the medical problems he had with the makeup took him off-set so much he didn't feel like "part of the group," when the rest of the cast were becoming such good friends. :( I'd certainly like to have a chance to shake his hand and thank him for all he did.

Viola-- 40 pages of interviews?! (Forget America, Luthiea--I think we should all just move to New Zealand.)

Elve--The story in USA Today (the one with the cute Elijah/PJ photo Elevensies posted) also says Elijah's next project is Thumbsucker, so it's looking more and more like a "go." And Parade is a magazine that comes with some--probably most--Sunday papers, but not all of them. I'm going to have to ask my mom to save hers for me, as it comes with her local Sunday paper but not mine.

Louise & Prim--Well, Ebert would have a hard time calling hobbits "twee" in this one, wouldn't he :rolleyes: ?

tata--Love that comeback line on Christina Aguilera--maybe that's a skill he picked up playing a hobbit :p . Seriously, though, it's great that he can think on his feet, something a lot of "movie stars" seem to have a hard time doing.

The one chat question that cracked me up was whether the latest YM was the first time he'd been on a magazine cover. Very tactful reply there, too, saying that he couldn't remember what his first one was--probably true, since he started so young. If it had been me, I think I would have said, "Well, I was on the cover of Time a couple of weeks ago, in case you didn't notice." :D :D

from tgshaw:
The one chat question that cracked me up was whether the latest YM was the first time he'd been on a magazine cover. Very tactful reply there, too, saying that he couldn't remember what his first one was--probably true, since he started so young. If it had been me, I think I would have said, "Well, I was on the cover of Time a couple of weeks ago, in case you didn't notice."
Well, the readership of YM and Time is probably usually different... obsessive Frodo-fans discounted, of course. :D

I think the difference in the promotions this year is fascinating (got to, cause I can't actually watch any of them, since I don't get any broadcast TV stations and don't find TV worthwhile enough most of the time to bother getting satellite). Somebody has definitely figured out that there are groups of women who want to see more Elijah (and more Orlando, based on what I've heard about teen magazines). I don't know if they've figured out that there's an adult female fan base yet, though... what would indicate they'd figured that out? An appearance on Oprah?

Mel

Originally posted by Cadmo
I still can't see Elevensies pic. No red cross, nuttin. Did you remove it Elevensies???
Nope, it's still there. Not even a red X, eh? Strange. Maybe the link will work for you: Elwood & PJ (http://members.truepath.com/bananachunks/usatoday.jpg)

Well, guess I shouldn't have dissed the web monkeys earlier, 'cause it didn't take long for them to get me back. :( Maybe I had a premonition, as I'd already submitted a good part of the last post before they got hold of it...

Originally posted by mel headstrong
Well, the readership of YM and Time is probably usually different...
That's pretty much what I was trying to say--probably a bit too sarcastically :o . It just seemed like such a classic example of a "teeny-bopper" limited view of the world that it struck me as terribly funny. (And there are certainly lots of people that age who do pay attention to the broader world. :) ) And--hey!--he was on the cover of TV Guide last year!!

I don't know if they've figured out that there's an adult female fan base yet, though... what would indicate they'd figured that out? An appearance on Oprah?
Well, Rosie qualified, but that show's gone (Sean Astin was on it last year, which made sense as she always wanted to spend part of an interview talking about kids). Simply because Regis and is on during the day, I've always assumed it was aimed at adult women, but I could be wrong, as I've never watched it. Someone from the movie was on that show last year, but since I couldn't see it, I don't remember who--then Elijah this year.

The Today Show is definitely aimed at adults, but I don't know what the male/female split is--the topics they talk about seem to be pretty evenly divided, and most women seem to like both Matt Lauer and Katie Couric, so I'm guessing there's a pretty good female audience. In fact, IIRC (I haven't actually seen it, since it comes on after I leave for work), they've even added a third hour hosted just by Katie that's specifically aimed at women, so there must be a pretty good female lead-in audience. Elijah was on that both last year and this year, but I think this year was the first time PJ was on. Since it is oriented toward adults and their usual "star" guests are people like Al Pacino (I do watch that program pretty regularly), I think it's interesting that the youngest actor of the bunch was chosen to handle that interview both years.

Of course, those appearances were all related to the movie--but, then, even the most popular stars aren't usually on an interview show unless they have something to plug.

Hmmm... Maybe they should put Viggo on The View :eek: :eek: ; I have to say, though, I bet Elijah would have a riot on that one and come off looking pretty damn good. For those who aren't familiar with it, that's a program Barbara Walters invented where a group of female semi-celebrities chosen for their opposing viewpoints sit around and discuss things--and occasionally "interrogate" (literally--they ain't easy) a guest. I've seen it just a few times--and not at all lately--so can't comment on it too generally, but the times I've seen it, it seems to end up as a mixture of serious discussion, some flat-out arguments, and a touch of silliness. The guest is not considered immune to being involved in any of those. Oooo... I just had a fiendish thought, a little off-topic for this thread--they should send Billy and Dom (together) to be on that one--Barbara Walters would never be the same again :D :D !

That was a lot more rambling than I meant to do on that topic... :o

--------------------

I haven't seen this or a link to it posted--sorry if it has and I didn't see it. But there's a short section of the USA Today article that's specifically about Elijah. I think I particularly like that it's headed "The star." :) :) It's in a part of the article that's talking about how the LotR movies have created big changes for New Zealand, Weta, New Line, and "the star" :) .

The star. Wood, who was 17 when he was hired as Frodo and turns 22 next month, found fame in such movies as [i]Avalon (1990) and The Ice Storm (1997) long before he flopped around in furry hobbit feet.

But being in such an internationally popular film series places him in a more exclusive club of actors. "Everywhere I go I have to deal with it," he says. "I hear lots of 'Hey, Frodo.'"

He also has become a regular in gossip columns. (For the record, he no longer is dating German actress Franka Potente of The Bourne Identity and calls himself "happily single.") It's not that he's been partying more. "The funny thing is, if anything, I've chilled out."

Wood is understandably prone to more intimate films in between his Rings duties. His next movie is definitely an elf-free zone: Thumbsucker, based on Walter Kirn's quirky comic novel.

The whole article is pretty good, although a bit too "cute" at times, with most of what's said on the movie(s) as a whole coming from PJ. Nothing new, though--definitely for people who haven't been quite as... curious... about all this as we have ;) . Because of the fact that the article is written for "the general movie-going public," it's kind of nice that they put in a mention of EW's next movie so people might recognize it when it comes out.

If any of you have Starz, the TTT "On the Set" is on today at 5 PM Central (6 PM Eastern). I missed the first one, so I have my VCR set for this one. And of course FOTR is on at 7 PM Central. Too bad I'll be at my brother's and unable to watch it. Guess I'll just have to watch the DVD when I get home. :)

Edit: I got my Sunday paper early. The article on Elwood is the usual stuff. They got his brother's name wrong--unless he has another one called "Jeremiah" that we don't know about. :rolleyes:

But he made a comment I've never seen him refer to before, about what happened after his parents' divorce when he was 15. When my father left, I started providing for the family. My mother reacted by starting to defer to me. We went through a difficult time, when our roles got kind of messed up. I finally had to say, 'Just because this help is coming from me doesn't mean I'm the head of the family. You're my mom, and you will always be my mom. All the discipline, advice and wisdom should come from you and not me.' Makes you wonder how his mom reacted.

Elijah also says he can be shy around women, especially "if I see someone as being far too beautiful or out of my league." The interviewer calls this "an extraordinary confession for someone who, since Rings, has become one of the most famous young actors in the world." I wanted to say "Not if the young actor in question is smart enough to know that some women will now be paying attention to him because he is famous, and not for himself." That makes me wonder why anyone would think that a shy, sensitive person will automatically change into a confident "lady-killer" when they suddenly become famous and sought-after due to a hit movie. That's the second time lately that Elijah has described himself as "quiet" or "shy" around people he doesn't know. No wonder people who meet him want to give him a hug and adopt him. I kind of wondered when I saw the Parade cover the other day why the article was titled "How I Made It Through Unscathed." I guess they were referring to the transition from child actor to "adult" actor. For Elijah's sake, I hope it's true, but somehow I sense he may not be totally unscathed. He's just good at hiding it.

P.S. In the Parade cover picture, the look in the Eyes is well, just sad and world-weary and angsty to me. It makes you want to give him a hug and tell him everything will be OK. Do you think they told him to "look serious"? Or am I projecting what I think I see onto him? Let me know what you think.

P.S.S. Lidless Eyes over at TORC went to the Paris premiere and talked to the actors. He found out what scenes were on Elijah's audition video (Go Lidless!). Basically, the three scenes he did for auditioning for PJ was when Frodo discards the orc gear, with Sam on Mount Doom, and when Gandalf comes to visit him in Bag End. I thought you might be interested in that little tidbit. ;) I guess "with Sam on Mount Doom" scene is the "wheel of fire" scene, because I know I've read somewhere that this was one of the scenes on the tape.

Thanks for the heads up tg!
Here's the new-and-improved (in more ways than one!) version:
fixed (http://www.imgmag.org/images/daisytighfield/lijfixed.jpg)

Viggo Mortensen on the View! That would be interesting, considering what a heartthrob he's being marketed as. (There was an enormous ad in the paper today..something about hearts a-flutter:rolleyes: ) But I don't know about Elijah. There isn't as fair of an age representation on that show since the youngest woman left- I don't know if they'd choose the little bald boy over hunky Viggo. :rolleyes:
I agree that someone has definetly clued into the Elijah/Orlando appeal. Maybe a lot of Execs have 12 year old daughters. ;)

Actually, Ebert was on Regis and Kelly (and yes, that show is aimed at the middle-age-women category) the same day as Elijah was, and from his interview it seemed as though he knew quite a bit about the books. I'm surprised he gave it a good review, since he commented on how it didn't seem true to the spirit of the book in the interview. Purely as a movie I suppose there was nothing to argue with.

I was cringing during that TRL interview (not unusual, I suppose, it is MTV.) What made me wonder was that Elijah was smiling and nodding while that guy was making all those mistakes! I would have been laughing, :o or at least correcting him!
Promotional Etiquette Rule #4: Don't point out the stupidity and/or ditzyness of your interviewer. In the end it will only reflect bady on you.

I was watching that BBC webchat with Billy, and I was a bit surprised at the intelligence of the questions, in coparison to the other chats there've been recently. I wonder if that reflects on the intelligence of the American youth, or just on the fact that Billy isn't as mainstream as Elijah, so if you know enough about him to want to participate, you probably know quite a bit. ...If that made any sense at all...

((Faculty)) ((Other Lurkers))

Hi everyone!

Hope you're all getting ready for TT and Xmas (in that order!). I did some shopping in Glasgow today but I've still got a few presents to get, the shops were packed too - what a pain! Saw the TT soundtrack in the shops (they don't have it in my town centre shops) but relented and just ordered it from CDWow. I was at my friend's yesterday (the one I'm going to London with) and she's already got the album so I listened to a couple of tracks. They also had some TT merchandise in Virgin Records - TTT shot glasses (including one of Angry-Fro); mugs and a Faramir action figure!

Love the pic of barefooted PJ, with Lij, that Elevensies posted. He's a brave man to put his tootsies on public display like that! :D

Hi Daisy - I saw the TRL thing over at AlwaysandForever. I wonder if Elijah ever gets embarrassed appearing on shows like that, where the audience whoops it up as he walks on and they have all that car-azy music and a wacky host? I reckon Lij was too polite to correct the guy - that's the sort of thing I do too!

Thanks for changing the magazine cover, Daisy! Much better! Just a question - how do you get the links to contain your own typed words, rather than the address of the picture? You'd put 'Fixed' on the link, how do you do that? :)

Thanks Louise for those new quotes - it must have been very strange for him 'looking after' his family like that after the divorce. :( He does seem very shy too, which can only be a good thing as far as I'm concerned - I couldn't bear it if he had an ego.

Thanks very much for the link to the Starz movie, Elve it was very good. I looked at the link that Elve posted and saw this - I've not seen it before and it's kind of strange! http://www.warofthering.net/downloads/orlandodownloads/interviewinjapanbwindows.wmv Rings for everyone, lol!

tg - my family has always been crazy! I worry sometimes... :D My brother got the hairdo cos it was getting too long and he was 'sick of it'. Hmm, sounds familiar. He doesn't like Elijah (probably just because I like him so much, when I like something he has to hate it, so he hates Lij and LOTR :p )

tg - I read that about the people who 'shoo' the actors into the theatre at the premieres too. There's a bit in the 'Making of the Movie Trilogy' book about it. As for America and NZ - I'm gonna have to find myself a rich man who has homes in both countries! :D

Blossom - I saw Entertainment Weekly! After getting up to see it on Wednesday and Thursday and it not being on (the lengths these people will go to get people to watch the show!) I saw it on Friday. Lij was barely on it though, eh? I bet he was interviewed for longer than they'd shown, they'd obviously cut a lot out :( Nice to see Christopher Lee and Brad Dourif aswell - I've never seen Wormtongue's alter ego interviewed before!

I couldn't believe it - before I left the house I checked the TV page of the paper to see what the videoplus number was for the Return to Middle-earth show and it wasn't on here! :( They showed some stupid Gaelic kid's program instead! Noooooooooo :mad: I've checked the rest of the paper and there's zilch that I could see. I'm gonna phone up Scottish Television and complain :p

I was just in the other room bemoaning the lack of TT-stuff and The Trailer came on. The first time I've seen it on TV.

I did see a feature on The Saturday Show, which I don't usually watch but mum was on the ball again yelling - 'Channel 1 - Lord of the Rings!!!' so I put it on. I saw a snippet of TTT, and they had Dom live in the studio. Then they cut to a pre-recorded feature with Elijah and they got him to read out the name of someone who'd won a LOTR competition on the show. The boy who won it was Welsh - it was really cute hearing Elijah try to read out the difficult-to-pronounce name! He said afterwards that he hoped he'd got the name right - bless! Billy was apparantly on CD:UK on ITV, but I didn't see that.

Also there's the Film 2002 TT feature to look forward to on Monday night.

I think I'm gonna try and stay spoiler-free for ROTK, if I can manage that. I almost feel like I've seen TT already, the amount of reviews I've read :p

x

edit - here's a link to an article about Elijah that I found when I was browsing CoE -
http://www.canada.com/edmonton/edmontonjournal/story.asp?id=%7B602C658A-BB7C-4BAC-86DC-BDF5AF8FA873%7D

Just delurking again to bring you this.......
http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2002/12/13/1039656217520.html

The things they do nowadays to lure people to NZ.... :p

Blossom- I wish I'd lurked here a bit earlier today as I would have found out about Return to Middle -earth being on at 12.30 am but I did happen to put HTV on at 12.45, totally by chance, so I caught the last 15 mins :( :D Did I miss much Frodo/Elijah stuff ???

I'm really jealous of how many LOTR programmes there are on American TV. But at least I know the Faculty will keep me informed-its the next best thing to seeing them !

Aaawww Elijah trying to pronounce Welsh names. ( I'll give him some coaching.... oops sorry wrong thread ! )

Originally posted by Louise
"When my father left, I started providing for the family. My mother reacted by starting to defer to me. We went through a difficult time, when our roles got kind of messed up. I finally had to say, 'Just because this help is coming from me doesn't mean I'm the head of the family. You're my mom, and you will always be my mom. All the discipline, advice and wisdom should come from you and not me.'"
Wow, that is amazing. My admiration for this guy's brain just increases all the time. How many 15-year-olds (much less one in show biz) have their heads on straight enough to realize something like that? I had wondered how his being the "bread-winner" affected the family. I think it shows how well he was brought up to that point. I may start swooning for Elwood's mom! :D Hi, Mrs. Wood! :)

Luthiea, when you use the http tags, the first box to pop up will ask what text to display. After you enter that, it will ask for the URL. That's all dey is to it. :)

quicksilver are you welsh??

Thanks for the pic addie Elevensies.. :)

Hi all,

I thought I'd drop in quickly. I'm reading and watching all the interviews and comments that you link to with great interest (and envying you all the TV specials), but I haven't got very much to add from over here. There is an extreme amount of LotR hype, but not much of it directly related to EJW.

However, what little there *is* about him is definitely directed mainly at the teenager market, even when included in mainstram papers. There recently was one long interview in one of the major tabloids, dealing with dating as the main subject. (Nothing new, he's far too good at deflecting questions in a charming manner). Also he's been on the cover of several girlie and teen magazines in the last months.

I must say, though, how in awe I am at the promotional work EJW is doing at the moment. I get totally stressed out just *reading* about all the travelling, talkshows, newspaper and TV interviews, autograph signing, handshaking and premieres.

I'd like to see a picture of that Boeing 747 with that 36 metres pic of Frodo and Sam on it! Guess the two of them could never possibly have imagined just how much of a recognizable-to-all trademark item the faces of their role characters would become while they were still down filming in NZ several years ago. It must feel strange to be in the middle of this ongoing commercial whirlwind.
Edit: I got my wish. The "new pictures thread" over at CoE has several pictures of said Boeing 747. The picture on the plane is a tiny bit crowded, but I really like it. It's much, much better than the most recent official TTT promotional poster, for instance. Although, :confused: at the executive guy standing in front of the plane, waving a sword........

Well, now it's back to Christmas preparations for me!


Uh-oh; I forgot to say........ TORN has explained just *what* the "Angelic look" of Frodo's in Osgiliath is all about:

Spoiler!
*
*
It's when the Nazgul flies over Osgiliath and the moment when Frodo starts falling under the influence of the Ring
*
*

End spoiler

That wasn't much of a surprise, really, after reading all the spoilers floating about. Still, if including "outrageous-to-purists" changes to the plot implies adding such lovely imagery, I'm all for "outrageous" plot changes! :rolleyes: :D

Maeglian:

I have some news about that for you, if you're interested.

Spoiler:







Unfortunately, that scene isn't in the movie.





End Spoiler

:( :eek: Oh..... That's too bad. I was really looking forward to that scene, which *may* have come across in my various previous posts. ( :rolleyes: at self). Oh well, here's hoping it'll be included in the Extended Version of TTT.

--------------
A question for the UK Facultiers: Is there any info on when Ash Wednesday or Chain of Fools may be released on video in the UK? I've been checking out several of the major retailers' websites, but neither film is mentioned at all.

Originally posted by Maeglian
[BI'd like to see a picture of that Boeing 747 with that 36 metres pic of Frodo and Sam on it!
Edit: I got my wish. The "new pictures thread" over at CoE has several pictures of said Boeing 747. The picture on the plane is a tiny bit crowded, but I really like it. It's much, much better than the most recent official TTT promotional poster, for instance. [/B]


I enjoyed the piccies too...but Azalea fumed :eek:

paraphrase "who was the dork who put the picture of Frodo on TOP of the plane where nobody can see it????" :confused:

have to say, she's got a point! Only another plane flying above it is going to see it properly....so, are there any pilots out there that haven't seen LOTR yet??? :D

NZ has gone just a *little* mad over LOTR...even the franking machine in the Post Offices have "New Zealand...Middle Earth" instead of the usual date and time stuff.

and the first day stamp covers ...ooh (there's a nice one of Frodo/EW, just to keep this post ever so slightly on topic ;) )

viola

Oh, I think the decoration on the plane will work reasonably well. The only time you really get to study that kind of thing is looking down on planes from the windows at the airport or looking out from a neighbouring plane, waiting for it to take off or while your plane is taxing from or to the gate. (That's the only time I really get to study the BA planes' tail decorations, for instance). So I think Frodo will be sufficiently visible.

I've seen the NZ stamps, too. The Frodo one is from the encounter with the not-so-merry men of Ithilien, I seem to recall. It's quite lovely. :) So, EJW has his face on stamps just like royalty over here. Wonder if he'd ever have believed that 5 years ago?

I'm chattering on a bit here, I know. :o It's a slight nervous reaction after having read a couple of actual KD'ers TTT reviews over in the Trilogy.

Good night, everyone!

Those of you who don't mind spoilers should take a look at the TV trailer posted over at TORN--the "In 5 Days" one, not the "In 3 Days" one. Let me know what you think of Frodo's first line.

http://img-nex.theonering.net/movies/ttt_In_5_Days_tv_spot.wmv

I'm using my lunch break here to catch up ... feeling very breathless. ;)

Elevensies - awwww, PJ and Elijah are sooo cute!

Daisy, thanks for that fixedlij pic. I have to say that the filename is making me giggle helplessly. :p :D

Frodo on a plane! Thanks for the news, Quicksilver. Frodo literally flying is terrific and all, but come on, out of the ravishingly beautiful Frodo images out there they had to choose that? Not that there's anything wrong with that Frodo, but there're so many other Frodos that make you just want to sit and stare unblinking and huh? Right, sorry. I had a point to make there somewhere. I think.

The chat transcripts are great, and he did manage to answer some of the things we'd been wondering about, especially as Elve mentioned, the 'getting into and out of character' bit. Thanks folks, for the other articles and such. I'm finding a few as well. Here's one from a UK paper that hasn't been linked to yet: 'I felt so at home in Middle Earth' (http://portal.telegraph.co.uk/arts/main.jhtml;$sessionid$34RORFLRGX1FNQFIQMFCFFWAVCBQYIV0?xml=/arts/2002/12/16/bfeli16.xml&sSheet=/portal/2002/12/16/ixport.html)

There's a brief write-up from Starburst: http://www.visimag.com/starburst/293_feat01.htm

http://www.visimag.com/starburst/images/293_feat01.jpg

It contains this bit of info which finally shed light on what PJ & co talked about in the Directors/Writers commentary:

One of Wood’s most challenging moments in The Fellowship of the Ring occurred when Frodo watches in horror as Gandalf perishes at the hands of the demonic Balrog. “I already had it my head that I had to be extremely affected by Gandalf’s death,” says Wood, “since he was my great friend, really like a family member to Frodo. Well, Peter gave me a interesting piece of direction that day. He said, ‘I want your reaction and the look on your face, to scare the audience, because they’ve never seen Frodo look like this before, or be in this much despair’. I felt that was a really good piece of direction, because it drove me to make the shot far more profound and more heartbreaking. It was an interesting thing to get my head around, because it was open-ended enough, that I could play with that thought and make it into whatever I wanted, within the guidelines that Peter had given me.”

I take this to mean the scene where Frodo screams 'Noooo' because oh yeah, that moment shook me all right. Listening to the commentary I'd thought the scene they were referring to was the post-Moria Frodo when he turns slowly towards camera.


Scans of Parade are available on-line so I had a read. Is it just me, or is Elijah starting to reveal 'darker' aspects of his life? Last year he never implied anything about his family life being less than wonderful.

Louise --- you're killing me here! I don't think I'll have much luck downloading anything from TORn when I get home. What's Frodo's line?

Holy moly Louise, thanks for that link. I have to start watching more TV...I'm missing all of these spots!

As for Frodo's first line...



SPOILER!






That's got to be when he sees the Nazgul in Osgiliath. Whom else could he be talking about, with that look on his face?






END SPOILER.

I agree with Elda.

The words, the spooky delivery, the look on his face....... it all has a horror film with supernatural elements feel to it. Suddenly I'm reminded of the films PJ made prior to LotR.

Apologies to Luthiea, Blossom, Quicksilver and anybody else confused by my mentioning the Return To Middle-Earth program. I guess it was only on Sunday here in Ireland but on Saturday in the UK. There wasn't a huge amount of new information, but the behind the scenes - actors acting goofy was a lot of fun - we got to see Dom do a bungee jump and Sean directing his short film (PJ said he was a tough director and nearly drove him to tears) :)

This review from yesterday's Sunday Times is interesting. I like this reviewer. His name is Cosmo Landesman and he's an honest reviewer. The film got maximum three stars, but it wasn't 100% postive either. However, the bit that's interesting for us is what he mentions about the Frodo and Sam part of the story. Hopefully this will put a few minds at rest:

… The Two Towers is too much like a conventional blockbuster; it’s action rather than character-driven, and relies heavily on big set pieces and special effects to wow us. The director, Peter Jackson, and his camera seem to swoop in and out of shots like a man surfing the sky. As for his crowd scenes, well, move over Cecil B DeMille.

The real trouble with The Tow Towers, is its structure. Here, the fellowhip has been fractured into three separate story lines, with mixed results. The best of the bunch involves Frodo (Elijah Wood), Sam Gamgee (Sean Astin) and Gollum (based on Andy Serkis) on their journey towards Mordor. This is a subtle, superb slice of drama. The darkness of this film comes not just from the hideous collection of creatures – orcs, Uruk-hai, wargs and Liv Tyler – but from the spectacle of Frodo’s mental and moral decline. Jackson presents us with a boy who is into heavy Ring addiction, and, like all addicts, denies that he has a problem. (Invisibility? Omnipotence? I can handle it!)

We can see Frodo’s screwed-up future in the hideous face of his new friend Gollum, who has the junkie demanour of one who lives for the high of the Ring. Gollum’s bulging blue eyes look as if they want to pop out of their sockets, rich off and score.

[A few paragraphs about the rest of the story including these lines: “The Two Towers looks and sounds like second-rate Shakespeare”, “Wormtongue … aims for slimy malevolence, but just seems creepy”, “Eowyn … is rather nondescript”, “but they [Aragorn, Gimli, Legolas] end up overshadowed by the story of the king trying to save his people”]

The weakest link is the story of the two missing hobbits, Merry (Dominic Monaghan) and Pippin (Billy Boyd). They have entered the magical forest of Fangorn, and are being carried along by a giant walking, talking, treeabout as real as the Jolly Green Giant.

Jackson may lose some fans in the middle of the film, but he’ll win everybody back with the climatic battle scene at Helm’s Deep, involving the evil Saruman’s 10,000 Uruk-hai soldiers storming the Rohan fortress. It’s one of the greatest battle scenes ever filmed, yet free of blood and gore.

Interestingly, both Ring films end up delivering an old-fashioned message you rarely hear in popular culture: that it is through struggle with adversity and sacrifice to a greater cause, and not a life of comfort and consumerism, that we bring out the best in ourselves.



Not too positive about the Merry and Pippin side of things though :(

Still we'll all be able to make up our own minds in just two days. Will it ever come? And the sad thing is that once we see TTT we'll all by crying out for December 2003 when we'll see RotK. Talk about wishing our lives away :D

Ainon: I'm sorry about that. I keep forgetting that not everyone can download easily. It's not really what he says, it's the way he says it and how he looks when he says it. I had a flashback to the film Poltergeist, which I saw on E! "True Story" not long ago. But here's the line:

Spoiler









They're here!







End Spoilers


Edit: Thanks, EE, for the quote. I knew that Elijah would be superb, of course, but that's one of the first reviewers who said so specifically. Most of them mention Gollum, and occasionally Sean Astin, but not Elijah. His subtlety is lost on a lot of people.
And LOL about the line on poor Liv Tyler. He puts her into rather unsavory company.

EE--With so much negative in the review, I'm surprised the reviewer gave the movie the maximum number of stars. And I'm afraid the description of the F&S part of the story won't help defray much worry, as what seems to be most worrisome is that the aspects of the story the reviewer says are played up--will get played up. What Elijah's been saying in interviews supports that, too. I'm not worried actually--if I made a prediction about my reaction to TTT right now it would be pretty much like my reaction to FotR: will need several viewings to get to the point where I can enjoy it as a separate entity from the book, then gradually get to appreciate it more (I don't think as much as FotR, just because of the story itself), but have some things I'll always be disappointed about (one of which will not be Elijah's acting). I love the FotR movie, but I could see it a thousand times and still wish the ford had been handled differently and the Conspiracy had been included, and I expect I'll feel the same about parts of the TTT movie.

LOL at the "(Invisibility? Omnipotence? I can handle it!)," though: "My name's Frodo and I'm a Ring-bearer." "Hi, Frodo." :p

Kind of following along with that, I checked my email before I came here and one of the people in my email discussion group said something I thought was interesting (a person who actually makes money writing about Tolkien--but since he writes for the internet, he's not quite as staunchly purist as the people in the group who write about Tolkien in books). Anyway, he talks about having other movie adaptations of LotR in the future, as if he thinks it's quite likely, and I've never heard anyone say that before. He didn't give any "inside knowledge" so it's just his opinion, but since he's in touch with a broader audience than the "book writers" I thought it was interesting that he would say that.

His thinking is that, even though there are things in PJ's movies he's disappointed with, future movies could handle those things differently and we'd eventually end up with a "consensus" of how LotR plays on screen. The idea I get is something like Robin Hood--different film adaptations change various things, but everyone knows the basic story. He didn't give a timeline for this (I might ask him if someone else hasn't by tomorrow), but it didn't sound as if he thought it would take centuries.

---------------------

Hit the bookstore yesterday (on my way home from picking up my ticket for 12:01 am on the 19th :) :) :) ). There were about six magazines with LotR covers. I ended up buying one of them: scifi, which is the magazine put out by the cable SciFi Channel. The cover says it has an exclusive interview with Elijah Wood, and that seems to be referring to their--quite long--TTT article, where almost all of the quotes are from either Elijah or Barry Osborne. Nothing terribly new, but a few more details on how Andy Serkis was involved in the scenes--Elijah and Sean would rehearse a scene several times with Andy physically playing Gollum, then the scene would be filmed with Andy in it, to give the digitizers his movements to work with, and then it would be filmed without him. Elijah said this worked well, because by the time they did the scene without Andy, they had enough "muscle memory" to play it as if he were there. Sounds like that might be the answer to the mystery of how you roll downhill leaving space for someone under you when there's no one there? I don't know that I could do it, but I guess that's one of the many reasons I'm not an actor ;) . Since Elijah's doing the talking in this article, there's a lot about how wonderful Sean A. and Andy are. I'm afraid everything he says about the storyline is what we've been hearing lately.


POSSIBLE SPOILER (MY OPINION, SO WHO KNOWS?)






What I'm expecting, after reading this article and others, is that we'll get Frodo as an addict in the way we got Aragorn as an unwilling king in FotR. That is, with PJ taking something that has possibly a kernel of truth in the book and expanding it until it becomes a/the major part of the character.











END POSSIBLE SPOILER



Premiere has a long cover story on Viggo. Flipping through it, I saw a couple of quotes from Elijah about Viggo's coming on board. In the first one, Elijah said when it was announced Townsend was leaving, it was very upsetting--some people even crying--because they'd been working with him for two months and had started to form a bond with him as someone who was going to be there the entire 18 months. He said that whether the decision "...was right or wrong, it was traumatic." I think that's the first time I've heard anyone involved with the movie come out and say that. Elijah was also quoted as saying--which I have heard from him before--that as soon as Viggo arrived, they knew he was the one who was "meant" to play Aragorn.

Didn't see anything new in any of the other magazines (which saved me some dollars ;) ).

-----------------

When I phoned my mom yesterday to ask her to save her Parade magazine for me, she told me there had been a program made up of short interviews with people involved in the movies that had run on EWTN, which is a cable station that runs specifically Catholic programming. Of course, she didn't know who anyone was, but by asking a few questions I'm quite sure PJ, Elijah, and Sean A. were interviewed, but I don't know who else. She said they didn't talk about religion as such, but about the spirituality and values in Tolkien's writing and how the movies tried to stay true to that. Evidently Elijah talked some about the Ring itself and how he saw it affecting the Ring-bearer, but she couldn't remember what he'd said (alas for failing memories). She doesn't think it will run again, but if it does she'll try to remember to take notes. [For a bit of perspective, when we watched FotR on video we had quite a discussion on the confrontation between Gandalf and the Balrog, and a couple of weeks later she didn't know what I was talking about when I brought it up.] She did say, when I asked her, that the program had come across as very positive toward the movies.

She does remember some things, but often out of context, God bless her. She told me with a bit of surprise that none of the people interviewed "...said anything about the second movie not being as interesting as the first." I'd previously told her that the second movie probably wouldn't be as interesting to me as the first movie because, as I'd put it, "It spends too much time with those boring humans and not enough with the hobbits." So she'd evidently remembered that as being the general opinion. I wish :( .

------------------------

Avatar note--I have two avatars I wanted to run on consecutive days, and I realized that I'd better do that today and tomorrow because after that no one will be inclined to pay any attention to avatars for awhile :p . I made two from the "For Your Consideration" ad that was posted here (from Variety). The one I'm using today is more "natural-looking" although not completely realistic--IMHO even the original picture isn't completely realistic. Tomorrow I'll use my first effort, where I experimented with it quite a bit and ended up with something akin to an "anime Frodo." I actually kind of like it (not that I would want it to be the only Frodo pic I ever saw :eek: !). I have a few other results that came out strangely that I've kept because I thought they were interesting--tomorrow's will be the first one I've been brave enough to use, but I'll probably put up others in the future.

all hail tg, the avatar maven! Nice one, tg. I'll look forward to the alternative.

I've spent the weekend grading exams, so my head is a bit :confused: . Still more to go, too. But I've got a ticket for Thursday evening. The exams will be done by then! :)

Just caught Elwood on the Early Show. I swoon for Harry Smith for asking different questions than every other talking head (except Charlie Rose, of course, who is in a class by himself.) Smith asked Wood a question about how he was able to perform his roles with the camera always doing close ups, and EW was surprised by that one. He answered something about the disjointed filming schedule and trying to keep focused on "where the character was in his journey" or some such thing. So he didn't really answer the question, though in all fairness, perhaps he couldn't! ;)

I've decided after seeing *cough* several *cough* of these interviews that Elwood should definitely try the live theatre. He remembered his lines, gave a slightly different performance each time, and was terribly charismatic. What more does a stage actor need?

Oh and tonight EW is slated for the Leno show. Wonder if Leno will ragg EW about his mom doing the laundry, again. :rolleyes:

Still catching up on the weekend's posts.

ainon, if you possibly can manage it, do download that "in 5 days" promo. At least the first few seconds. Frodo's little line is almost at the very beginning, and now that I've re-watched it a few times, I think it's about the most spooky scary line delivery I've ever seen EJW do. Wow! The look on his face..... and the flat ominous voice..... :eek: (I hope this one at least will be in the actual film!)
And that sentence, yes, that's the defining line from "Poltergeist", isn't it? (Sorry I forgot to include it in my previous post, I was in such a hurry. :o )

If the hand on Frodo's shoulder is yet another Ithilien Ranger, it's comforting to note that Faramir's men seem to have time for getting manicures in the midst of their otherwise rough lives. But the hand seems so small. Perhaps it is Gollum's? (Huh? Yes, *of course* I have a life, why are you asking? :o)


Vita and others, please let us know what happens on Leno (was that the show that called him a "kid" last year?).

Hi everyone!

Just a quick post tonight again.

tg - thanks for the info about Stuart Townsend leaving the project. It's a shame they'd formed bonds with him and he had to go :( Oh well at least we got Viggo. :)

EE - is that the same review where the reviewer calls Frodo 'the dullest character'? My dad got the paper yesterday and he was really quick to point that out to me, hmph! :mad:

I just looked at that link that ainon posted (how are you doing, a?) - this quote was of particular interest, I've not heard anything else about this, has anyone else? -

He is thrilled, for instance, to be meeting director Michel Gondry for a small role in the Jim Carrey film Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind, because he so loves the White Stripes music video that Gondry directed.
EW and Jim Carrey working together? Could be interesting. I wonder if this is another of Jim's 'serious' movies, rather than a comedy?

Louise and Maeg - yep. Poltergeist. I just watched that TT snippet over at torn before I came here and it really creeped me out! :eek:

Remember Film 2002's on tonight, fellow Brits Facultiers. :)

There's a LOTR feature on QVC right now over here - they're selling TT merchandise. They had some of the NZ stamps on, my mum was wanting to buy them but my dad was like, 'For goodness sakes!' They also had one of those picture cards that changes - one was of Frodo, and you turn it a certain way and it changes to Gandalf. My mum said, 'Is that what happens at the end - does Frodo *morph* into Gandalf?' Eh?! :eek: :p What strange ideas my mother has! Oh well, at least the end of ROTK will come as a complete surprise to her!

Thanks again everyone for all your posts, piccies and quotes and if I don't speak to you all before TT comes out (am working tomorrow night) then I hope everyone who is seeing it on Wednesday night enjoys themselves!

Bye for now!

x

Originally posted by Lutheia
My mum said, 'Is that what happens at the end - does Frodo *morph* into Gandalf?' Eh?! Your Mum's obviously channeling the QVC presenter, because he thought the same thing. Weird :confused:

I was severely tempted by the fragment of the Tweedy Coat that they had on sale, but at £40.00 I managed to restrain myself.

I really hope that EW doesn't make that film with Jim Carrey because I swore several years ago that I would never watch a JC film ever again.

Almost time for Film 2002 :)

Luthiea--I've seen a couple more lines you probably wouldn't want your dad to see (EW's casting making more sense now, because his "clammy white skin" and big eyes make him look like a future Gollum -- :rolleyes: -- hasn't the reviewer ever heard of "luminescent"?).

Interesting thing, though--I've read probably close to 20 reviews now, linking in from CoE, and have noticed there's very little said about the acting in TTT at all. For FotR, that was usually a big part of the reviews. It seems that for TTT all they have time for is the plot--a brief rundown and whether they thought it worked or not. The only character who gets much ink is Gollum--well, at least he'll draw attention to the most important part of the story :p ! Maybe some of the fan reviews will fill in the lack of attention to the acting--especially if all the different groups in the Community Cafe get into the act (of course, there wouldn't be much negative... but there's nothing wrong with that, is there? :p )

And every once in awhile a review will have one of those LOL clueless little comments ("This movie is as long as the last one, but the heroes don't get any closer to winning." [said by the reviewer as something that's [i]wrong with the movie]) ...uh, yeah... In one of the articles I read in the store yesterday, Elwood was quoted as saying he was surprised how many people don't understand the ending of FotR. The article said he "mimicked their voices" (which I would love to have heard :D ), saying, "That's the end?" "Huh? I don't get it." "But it didn't have an ending." [Not an exact quote, but you get the idea.] Did I mention that I'd pay good money to hear a tape of that interview--heck, of just that one line! :D

A couple of things to add to the "spooky" discussion. The first is a bit off track because it's from FotR, but it totally freaked me out--which is not something that happens to me very often. I still can't look at this without going "AAaahhh!" and shivering. Ever have something you don't notice in a picture until you make a change to it, and then it jumps out and grabs you? I was trying to take a screencap of Frodo lying on the ground watching Arwen approach and get it into more of a square shape. When I cropped the ends off this is what I got (look at them straight on for the "best" effect). Is this one dead hobbit or what :eek: ?!

http://www.imagemagician.com/images/tgshaw/Fellowship/cap1060-8500.jpg

http://www.imagemagician.com/images/tgshaw/Fellowship/cap1060-850.jpg


The second spooky addition is actually a...


REAL TTT SPOILER--To End of Post










A couple of the reviews talk about Frodo having nightmare-type experiences in TTT, seemingly mostly about Gandalf's death. One review called them "dreams" while another called them "seriously spooky hallucinations." I don't know how I'll feel about the content (although hallucinations sound hopeful for some interesting effects--we have to have something to make up for not having the "Ring-on" effect in this movie). But I'm glad they're at least giving Frodo some dreams. They're such an important part of the character in the book that I've kind of missed them--always felt they helped me understand book-Frodo better, so we'll see how they work with movie-Frodo.





-------------------

Originally posted by Louise
Those of you who don't mind spoilers should take a look at the TV trailer posted over at TORN--the "In 5 Days" one, not the "In 3 Days" one. Let me know what you think of Frodo's first line.

http://img-nex.theonering.net/movies/ttt_In_5_Days_tv_spot.wmv

Thank you, Louise! I really enjoyed that brief look into tomorrow night!! (insert excited, bouncy smiley here)

As to what I thought of Frodo's line - I think there is no need or place for it in this movie. However, I hope to change my mind when I see the set-up PJ uses. Honestly, that PJ! He will have his fun, no?

Now, as to how Elijah delivers it - I can think of no one on Earth that could have done a better job with that old line. I swear, I look at these vid clips with a mind to rewind Legolas for a good slow, repeated look at his subtle expressions and lovely countenance, and instead I end up repeating something Elijah has done over and over, every time. What an accomplished actor! I am absolutely in awe of him. And so many grand years of acting ahead for us to enjoy!! :cool:

Oh no, I'm not a fan, not me! :rolleyes:

Oops, sorry, my post turned out to be too late. I was gonna post something about the show tg's mother mentioned, but it turns out all the reruns have already happened. However, they seem to have recordings of the shows, so if you want to listen to that, here's the link:

http://www.ewtn.com/WorldOver/

It's the December 13 show.

Edit: Elijah's appearance on the Tonight show was pretty funny, especially after the zoo lady came out. I hope someone posts a clip of it somewhere, for those who don't get American TV. He showed his tattoo and said he's moving out of his mom's house soon. :eek:

Well, the day is almost nigh.

Happy viewings Facultiers. I hope you really enjoy the movie, or at least avoid coronaries (for the purists) :D

As I have a dreadful time in full cramped theatres I'm going to wait a few days before I see the movie. So I'll be absent for 2 to 3 days in an effort to remain spoiler free, and then hope to see an early morning session with hopefully less people.

OK. I know I'll be back here lurking. :rolleyes: I have the self restraint of a gnat. (And we actually don't have gnats here in the northern part of the North Island so this tells you how excessively little restraint I have...). So , in case I do actually come back to visit this thread, could we keep the spoiler warnings for a couple of days after the movie??? Please??? That way, if I read them anyway and wreck the movie experience its all my own fault.:p

On the other hand, if its impossible , then gush away, spoiler warnings or no. I'm hoping it will be positive gushing but heck, we're the Fac, critical debate is not only required but welcomed.:D

See you soon....Prim

It's not really what he says, it's the way he says it and how he looks when he says it.

Louise, I caught that 5-day promo on tv the other day. Was reading during commercials and when I realized it was a TTT promo, looked up, heard the line, saw the face - it truly frightened me and I remember remarking to my daughter that it was scary. I have not downloaded it yet because my computer takes too long but from what I remember, what was so frightening was that Frodo seemed as if a part of him (mentally, spiritually?) was missing. He was not himself. Very unsettling.

On a lighter note, I watched Elijah on The Tonight Show. :)
Some tidbits for those who didn't catch it or don't live stateside -

Jay introduced him to the audience (many standing, applauding and screaming women) as "an extremely talented young actor."

Elijah said he had come from NY via Paris and that the press junkets had not given him much time to see Paris (his 1st trip there). (This has been a mad whirlwind of promotion for him, but he handles it so amiably.) :)

He did get teased about having his mom do his "16 months" worth of laundry.

Jay asked how he explained that he lived with his mom when he took a girl home and he said:

"To be honest, It's not a very good reflection on me, maybe it is, maybe it isn't, I've not actually brought anyone back to the house or had that opportunity yet, I don't know why that is."
Aw, add his squinch here. He did say he has plans to move out.

Asked about the Fellowship tattoos, Elijah, gasp! showed his tattoo! He flipped up his shirt, tugged down his pants and revealed the tattoo. :eek: THUD! Oops, wrong place, let me just pick myself off the floor. 'twas very nice. :D

They showed a clip from TTT and then Elijah stayed on the couch through the rest of the show. Best part was his interaction with the lynx - the lynx looked so relaxed having EW stroke him. Don't think Elijah was so thrilled about having the beaver thrust at him expecially after it defecated on the astro turf!

Anyhow, I so admire Elijah as an actor and a person, it was very enjoyable to see him. He looks comfortable with Jay as opposed to David Letterman. I know I read somewhere that when asked what talk shows he likes to do, he said his favorite is Conan and that the Letterman show is kind of stressful.

Let me post this before it gets eaten, has happened once already. Nighty night to all!;)

Mmm, quiet in here ....

EE - is that the same review where the reviewer calls Frodo 'the dullest character'? My dad got the paper yesterday and he was really quick to point that out to me, hmph!

No, Luthiea. It wasn't that review, which I'm very thankful for - otherwise I might have just thrown the whole paper across the room :)

Anybody see Film 2002? What a disappointment. Now I remember why I haven't watched it since Barry Norman left. Jonathan Ross hadn't a clue. He called Dom and Billy the "Ant and Dec" of the hobbit world. Non-Brits probably won't understand that but he meant that he couldn't tell them apart. He knew the difference between Dom and Billy but not between Merry and Pip. Dominic (bless his soul) came back to say that he couldn't tell the difference between Jonathan and his brother Paul either. Go Dom!!!

But sadly very little Elijah - no interviews except snippets and very little Frodo and Sam clips either. And Jonathan Ross never really gave his opinion on the movie in the end either positive or negative.

Oh, off topic still, but on SM:TV Billy said something about him and Dom writing a script while they were filming (mostly while they were up a tree). Anybody know if he was serious or was it just a joke?


The cool thing about yesterday though, was that I got to see Fellowship again. Anybody remember that old movie? I think it was my best viewing of it ever. I hadn't seen it on a big screen since July and even then the last few times I saw it in a cinema it was a pretty old cinema, so I hadn't seen it with good quality picture since April or May, I think. The picture was great, but even more so I was struck by the sound of the movie. I'd just forgotten how good that was and how much I miss when watching it on DVD. And for the first time EVER, I actually cried when Gandalf and Bormomir died. Such a different experience to my first time almost a year ago, where I had a whole year to wait to find out what happened next. This time I had only TWO DAYS!!!! Yippee!!!

mum said, 'Is that what happens at the end - does Frodo *morph* into Gandalf?' Eh?!

Just had to quote that again. LOL!!! ((((tLuthiea's mom))))


SL - thanks for the report on the Leno show. Anybody got a clip of this, pleeeeease!!!!

Edit:

I've not actually brought anyone back to the house or had that opportunity yet, I don't know why that is."

This reminds me of the inteview for SM:TV. He was asked if he had a girlfriend and he said no that he was: "beautifully and delightfully single." I think those were the words he used. Not sure if I believe him though.

((Louise)), not too late at all, with that link--thanks! It'd be nice to see it, but mostly I wanted to know what was said. Kind of fitting that the segment was on the same program where some current Catholic authors were interviewed.

EE--I've heard Billy and Dom make that same statement about working on a script together before, for what it's worth (and with those two, I'm not sure how much that is :p ).

--------------

Some comments on EW on the Tonight Show -- First, what a change from last year :D ! Last year there was "nice" applause both when his name was announced and when he came on--this year, both came with screaming fans (with an almost unheard--under the noise--understatement from Elijah of "Oh, some fans here. That's nice.") Last year most of the interest was in the movie, this year in him. And I've noticed several times this year when he's been introduced that hosts (including Jay) have gone to the trouble to learn how he pronounces his name :p . (And the "tatoo viewing" got a lot of "audience anticipation and response.")

A couple of statements that were classic Elwood -- When Jay asked what he thought about the women in Paris, EW said he wanted to marry every woman he saw; I think some actors would have used a word other than "marry" :rolleyes: . And when the two baby monkeys (baboons?), who were left free to run around the set, started clinging to each other in a way that looked rather suggestive, it brought a lot of laughter--but Elijah asked the zookeeper if they "usually did that," giving her a chance to explain that they were scared by all the people and were supporting each other. I wonder if he felt sorry for the poor little things--I did :( . And, of course, all the laughter just frightened them more.

Not that he was completely "pure"--he played along with, and even initiated, the off-color humor, but when someone's feelings were involved (even though they were monkeys), he quietly intervened in a way that didn't interrupt but fit in perfectly with the show. He does really seem to love animals, and it was nice to have a chance to see him interact a bit with them (and, from what he said, I think the beaver might have still been defecating when they handed it to him--or at least he thought it was--so not being thrilled was a pretty understandable reaction :eek: ).

Finally, I hope he and the six-year-old singer had a chance to talk before or after the show, since he started his career at about that age :) . Maybe he can be in her first music video ;) .

--------------------

Hard to get my mind around the fact that 24 hours from now I'll be home sleeping (or trying to) after having seen TTT :eek: !

----------------------

BTW, today's avatar is the "anime Frodo" who showed up following some messing around with the "For Your Consideration" ad. Maybe if they make another animated version... :p .

by Prim-mo
So, in case I do actually come back to visit this thread, could we keep the spoiler warnings for a couple of days after the movie??? Please??? That way, if I read them anyway and wreck the movie experience its all my own fault.
Actually, I was thinking it would be a good idea if we still used spoiler tags till, say, January 1st? That would give most people a chance to see the movie. It's strictly voluntary, of course, but we thought it would be considerate. :)

I taped Leno but haven't watched it yet, but I'm not at all surprised by what you all have said. That's the one thing you get over and over when Elwood is being interviewed - that he is a genuinely nice guy who is unspoiled by Hollywood. I just love that geekboy! :cool:

Thanks for the link to the EWTN interview, Louise. I haven't listened to it yet, but I was sore I missed it.

Nice avvy, tg, as always. :)

Elijah's appearance on Leno last night was indeed a marked contrast to last year--even though Jay again asked him about laundry.:rolleyes:

One striking contrast was Leno's entire demeanor toward young Mr. Blue Eyes. Last year he treated him like a kid. This time, the respect was obvious. He treated Lij like an equal, an adult. And Elwood was the first guest, a sign of 'importance' in TVland.

Elijah himself seems much more relaxed and comfortable in all his TV appearances this time around. He's become a seasoned veteran of the morning show and talk show circuit.

I taped the rest of the show after his interview with Leno because it seemed like he was going to stay for the later guests. Can't wait to see the tape!:)

Originally posted by Goldenberry
I taped the rest of the show after his interview with Leno because it seemed like he was going to stay for the later guests. Can't wait to see the tape!:)

Goldie, you're in for a treat...the rest of the show was wonderful! See TG's rundown above (gorgeous avatar, by the way, TG). In every interview or appearance I see him in, I am struck all over again by how warm and simply gracious he is. Even when Jay started up on the laundry nonsense again...you could almost see this little flicker of (understandable, IMHO) annoyance pass over his face, and then it was just gone. Graciously gone.

He just seems so markedly different from all the other hollow celebs I've seen on these talk shows. I only hope all the newfound girly shrieking doesn't go to his head! :p

ARRGHH! I cannot believe it. I set up the VCR to tape Leno last night, and must have mis-punched the channel number.

So instead of Jay Leno bantering with Elwood, I got David Letterman ogling Catherine Zeta-Jones. :eek:

Must. stop. kicking. self. :(

Just thinking that it's the 18th is some parts of the world already. Anybody seen a midnight showing yet????

My viewing will be in about 20 hours time. I bet it will be quiet here the next few days :)

What's all this about defecating animals??:confused: What is a beaver doing on a talk show???

OK, that didn't take long: back already.:rolleyes:
Just sauntering in to let you know Dom and Elwood just landed this morning in Wellington. On the hobbit plane!!!Poor EW!!! What a killer schedule. How does he stay awake? His manager should put his foot down.

There's been a very interesting interview with PJ on radio this morning (I'm still listening to it as I type). Nothing much that we haven't heard (except he likes Richard Taylor since they both like to play with the same toys ;) ) but so friendly and unaffected by all the hype. Doesn't sound nervous at all: bet he is though. There'll be a few purists baying for blood soon I guess.

Have fun troops!

edit: last night NZ media got to see TTT. Universal approval. (surprise, we are just a tad prejudiced here...) , and they all came out "stunned". Cool.

originally posted by Cadmo
Just sauntering in to let you know Dom and Elwood just landed this morning in Wellington.

So Cadmo... will you be standing outside the theater at the premiere screaming like the fangirl you are? :p Get some up close monkey boy picts for us? It's good to hear they got to fly on the Frodo plane. Must be a surreal experience to fly in a plane with your face plastered on the side!

The Leno show last night had me laughing so hard that my belly is still sore today! I don't know why the whole thing was so endearing, but I just loved it (despite the fact that I hate to see animals on talk shows... you know they get scared, like those monkeys did :( ). Still can't believe he showed the tatoo though. I think my jaw dropped to the floor when he actually started pulling his shirt up! :eek: He also mentioned he's moving out soon, and will be taking over laundry duty for himself!

And he was on Caroline Rhea today, did anyone see this? He was really relaxed and funny - it was great. Caroline was very taken with him, and kept going on about how blue his eyes are in person and how cute he is. She showed a picture from Avalon and Radio Flyer, and he commented that they seemed like a different lifetime. She mentioned that Aiden Quinn was on recently and that he has the same blue eyes. They were also joking around about the "woohoo, he's single" caption on the cover on YM (he got a big kick out of it), and he also was laughing about having to stand on a box for the EW cover with him and Liv. I think the best line from the whole interview was at the end, when they were talking about the hobbit wigs looking like a mullet, he says the mullet is "sexy in a hobbit kind of way". :D And of course there were the usual "what do you look for in a woman" questions. :rolleyes: Not all that much about the movie.

Well, 20 hours left until the movie! It's a bizarre feeling... having discussed something every day for an entire year, and now it's here. The buildup is almost as fun as the event itself. And with all the appearances and pictures, and buzz that's been going on this month, the buildup has been about as intense as I can handle! I told my friend this morning that by the time we get to the theater I'm going to be so hyper I'll need to do some laps around the building to get some of that pent up energy out! :D Does anyone else feel hyper like this?

Okay, happy viewings to everyone! See you all on the other side. :)

Oh yes, Elvellon, hyper indeed! I will be getting into my Elf costume soon, and heading out for our incredibly-well arranged Line Party in a couple of hours. I needed a nap this morning, but that was not bloody likely!!

I hate what Lij did to his hair, but I'm glad he did it just for himself and not a part. He needs to please himself, he deserves to do so. He was good on Leno, wasn't he. So bright, well-spoken, and as eldalieva said, gracious. I'm just crazy about that young man. My daughter is going to have a hard time coming up with a mate that I can totally approve of, if I continue to compare all young men to Elijah.

I'm not surprised that Elijah is moving out of his mom's, as he has really grown up, but I hope he's not feeling the need to do so just because of all the teasing. It's a very fine thing to see a young man who is so comfortable with his family that he still enjoys living there - and it's not like he's just living in the same bedroom he had when he was 12! He has his own place on her property - but he may not feel at ease bringing girls there so close to mom! That would certainly be natural, and he is certainly at the age to bring girls home for a "visit". It just annoys me that everyone teases him about it rather than ever asking about the comfortable relationship his family must have together. I think that would be a more interesting glimpse into his mind than the stupid teasing about his laundry. For God's sake, if his mom felt taken advantage of, I feel she is a strong enough woman to say so to him at any time!

so soon now, so soon now!

Evening everyone.

Thanks for the quotes, articles etc you have all provided recently. You get to the stage when you forget where you read certain things, and who said what, but it's all addictive.

EE - yes, I saw Film 2002. I too was disappointed by the total lack of a serious review. Jonathan Ross obviously enjoyed the film, but like so many other reviewers(?) he just ran through the main storyline - I don't call that a review. Now Barry Norman would at least have given his opinion on the actors' performances. Seeing that the 'interviews' (:rolleyes: ) took place in a curtained-off area at the after-show party, I found the music (the band/DJ must have been positioned right behind the curtain) intrusive and distracting. The short clips with Elijah looked like they were taken from the Paris premier interviews, and at least you could hear what he was saying. Dom and Billy were as silly as ever!:) Ant and Dec indeed!

One high point was Andy Serkis's contribution, when he talked about the scenes with Frodo, Sam and Gollum. Tg, he basically confirmed what you read in that Sci-fi mag article. He talked about how he would act out the scenes with Elijah and Sean (Andy wearing a white all-in-one hooded body-suit), then Elijah and Sean would repeat the scene without him, acting to a blank space instead of him. Then much later, perhaps a year, Andy would go into the studio, don his blue motion-capture suit, and do the scene again by himself. That whole process must have been really difficult for all concerned. While he was talking a few 'filming of the filming' clips appeared on screen of Frodo, Sam and Gollum in the Dead Marshes. Wow, there was a shot with Elijah as Frodo, with Andy in white body-suit holding on to him. They were waiting for the 'action' call, and Frolijah was lying in the marshes with his head poised just above water. You actually saw Elijah take a deep breath in preparation - and then - he thrust his head into the water - I mean right under the water! He stayed under for a few seconds and then Andy sort of yanked him up and out onto the edge of the marsh. This was on-screen for only a few seconds, but I was transfixed! Did you see this EE?

Quicksilver - sorry you missed the first half of 'Return to Middle-Earth' on Saturday.
There were short snippets with Elijah (pre-buzz cut, looking particularly gorgeous, I might add), Sean, Liv, Viggo, Miranda Otto, Orlando, Dom and Billy. Mostly it was Liv and Orlando. Orlando on getting the part of Legolas, and all the training he did for the role. I didn't realize he had fallen from a window a couple of years before filming began, seriously injuring his back. You would never think it, seeing the crazy things he gets up to!
A dark morning, 4.45am, and Sean A and Elijah arrive for work. Elijah said how many beautiful sunrises he saw in New Zealand, but then he went home, and he hasn't seen one since!
Not sure if this was in the first or second half, so you might have noticed it, but it made me LOL. In the dressing/make-up room, hobbits wearing wigs but no costumes. Dom sitting down playing with something (too quick, couldn't see what he was doing) and Elijah leaning down at Dom's shoulder concentrating on whatever it is Dom is doing. We see Sean A behind them and he lets off a party-popper - it bangs - Dom and Elijah almost jump out of their skins. :D Silly, yes I know, but I found it amusing.

Oh, Elijah sounds just lovely on the Leno show. I wonder if that will ever appear here in the UK. I suppose not, but some kind person might put up some clips somewhere for us deprived UK ladies. (Blossom falls to her knees and begs... (not good enough?)... OK... crawls... sobbing, 'please, please... pretty please...' The thought that he really likes animals and seemed concerned for the monkeys just makes me like him as a person all the more. :) :) :) I'm very happy to hear that Leno treated EW with more respect this time, too.

Luthiea. Your mom makes me LOL. She is a gem!

EE - thanks for the quotes from the Sunday Times review. Do you know, I was browsing the teletext pages a couple of days ago for news on TTT and found a few pages on the general reaction after the London premier. Most were very positive, but they said some critics were not so impressed and put a couple of quotes up of these. I can't remember the exact words, but one (it said it was The Times reviewer) described EW/Frodo as... wait for it... 'a consumptive womble'!!!:eek: :eek: :eek: Now I know everyone is entitled to their opinion, but please!

I've decided not to read any more 'official' critics reviews. I am looking forward to reading all Faculty members opinions though, and seeing as I won't get to see TTT until probably the weekend between Christmas and New Year, I will be glued to this screen once the film opens. For some inexplicable reason, it doesn't start in our local cinema until the 20th (Friday).

My lovely hubby (who also has a buzz-cut) has actually admitted he is looking forward to seeing TTT. He said it took him a few viewings of 'Fellowship' (he hasn't read the book) to get to 'know' the different characters, but now he is more familiar with them, (film-wise at least) he is keen to see the second part. Of course, I have informed him we will need to watch the extended 'Fellowship' DVD over Christmas, so it is fresh in his mind - at which he merely sighed! He still insists on teasing me about my little 'obsession' with EW/Frodo, but I can take it!:)

Sorry to have rambled on for too long. I'm off to see if I can download that '5-day' clip eveyone's raving about.

For anyone going to see THE FILM over the next few days. ENJOY!

Bye for now.

:)

9 hours to TTT. how am I expected to work when there's 9 hours to TTT ...


Happy Birthday, Ghyste! :)



I managed to download the 5-day trailer, and the 3-day one too for good measure. Thanks Louise and Maeg, I'm so glad I did. Teensy weensy screen for the 5-day one, and I knew what I was supposed to expect but when I saw that and heard that my jaw dropped right to the floor. You're right, SL, it's unsettling. And I can't wait to see it!

And in the 3-day trailer we see what that trailer scene from months ago had been about (has it been that long?!) ... who cares about flying Nazguls when that is happening to Frodo? :D

Originally posted by tgshaw
Is this one dead hobbit or what :eek: ?

:trouts tg: That was scary! Don't do that again! :) Oooh, and I really, really like today's avatar.


----------------------------------------


Yesterday I ditched work in the morning and lined up for more than 2 hours to get my hands on tickets to a LOTR movie marathon. FotR and TTT, back-to-back, this Friday. So so so so so so so so happy. Heck, I have no idea how I'm expected to even pretend to be working here when I'm so hyped up. :p


Blossom - thank you for describing that bit Dead Marshes filming. Thanks everyone who talked about Elijah on Leno ... {{{Vita}}}} I feel your pain. :SOB: CNBC Asia used to air Jay Leno on weekends; they stopped that a couple of months ago. I didn't really care at the time because I was getting very tired of Leno's Arab / Muslim jokes, but now I'm in deep mourning. Bring Leno back here! Please! :SOB: I'm joining Blossom in begging for clips (which in my case will need to be Quicktime clips, so I'm not too sure about my chances there) or at the very least, screencaps!

Elve, thanks for the details from the Caroline Rhea show. Who is she and what's so great about her that she gets to spend time with Elijah and we don't? ;)

Luthiea - your mom is indeed a gem. :)

{{{Carly}}} Where've you been, girl?


And now, I'll dump misc. stuff I've found. These do NOT CONTAIN SPOILERS, so Cadmo Prim, you can cease pretending that you're not reading my post. :D

1. From the The Charlotte Observer (http://www.rottentomatoes.com/click/movie-1118285/reviews.php?critic=columns&sortby=default&page=2&rid=824240), a review by LAWRENCE TOPPMAN, who is a fine, wise man. From his review, emphasis mine:

Meanwhile, Frodo (Elijah Wood), Sam (Sean Astin) and Gollum trek on, finally being captured by Faramir (David Wenham), brother of the slain Boromir. Wood delivers the film's best performance, somehow finding new facial expressions for old feelings of inadequacy and fear.

2. Something I picked up from CoE, a quote from old Roger Ebert, aparently during an interview during Live with Regis and Kelly:

Elijah Wood, he's smart isn't he?

Please someone, put this in context! Not that I'm doubting the man for saying what we know to be true. :p

3. From an absolutely adorable Billy Boyd interview (http://news.scotsman.com/features.cfm?id=1386302002).

... But I have to ask: is Elijah Wood a precious Hollywood brat or what?

His co-star does a "that pains me" face, before launching into an endearingly boyish defence.

"Oh no, not Elijah," he says incredulously. "I mean, he and the rest of the Ring lads came to stay with me when I was in Mexico. At one point there were 50 of us staying in my house. So Elijah had to sleep on the floor. He didn’t bother that someone else had got a bed before him. He’s a very, very cool guy. The whole movie thing just doesn’t affect him," Boyd insists.


--------------

It's now 8 and a half hours to TTT! still!

Happy Viewing to everyone watching today! To those who're waiting still, we will restrain ourselves and use the spoiler warnings -- but are we allowed to mutter incoherently and at length about Elijah and Frodo? ;)

Please someone, put this in context! Not that I'm doubting the man for saying what we know to be true. LOL! No real context for this, Ainon, except that Elwood had just finished up his own interview a bit earlier, and perhaps Ebert was just impressed with his intelligent, charming and gracious manner (all of which he has in spades -- but I'm preaching to the choir, here!). :D

I haven't posted much lately, but I'm keeping up with everything, except the spoilers, of course. I'll be so glad when I don't have to look out for them anymore! 39 hours before I'm sitting in the theatre enjoying it for myself (but who's counting? :p )! And then maybe again a few days later...

To go back a bit to the MSN chat: I sat in on that as well, and posted a bunch of our questions for Elijah (for all the good it did). Do you suppose the questions were on a first come, first served basis? "I heard you got tattoos. Where's yours?" Good grief! :rolleyes: Maybe at the next opportunity we should gang up on them and all post the same questions to see what happens.

from Ainon
These do NOT CONTAIN SPOILERS, so Cadmo Prim, you can cease pretending that you're not reading my post.

Dang!

Busted!!!

What are you Ainon? Pyschic???:eek: :rolleyes:
ok so I'm a KD addict. So are the rest of you. Shoot me and you shoot yourselves. Eldalevia is worse than me...go read the Harem!!!

Back to not being here...

Prim

edit: yes, yes, I know back already( wipe that smirk off your face Ainon it's most unbecoming for a woman of good breeding ) but for a good reason:
Happy birthday Ghyste!!!!

I'm just back from the midnight showing, and don't even have the energy left to take off my silly ears. I can tell you this, tho - wearing Elven garb has given me a whole new respect for the female Elves (altho perhaps they never had to walk up four flights of steps holding popcorn, candy, a large coke, and three layers of clothes). And wearing a wig has given me a whole new respect for all who had to for 18 months, and especially for the wonderful makeup people who apply them securely. Now at last perhaps I understand why Orlando shaved off so much hair that he ended up with that mohawky look while filming. Sheesh!

I just don't have any new words to describe my still-elevating respect and appreciation for Elijah's talent. I wouldn't have believed I could think any more highly of him than I did, but I do. I'm blown away all over again.

As to what I said earlier about there not being any place in this film for Frodo's "they're here" line - I have forgiven all. It was well placed, as well-acted as it could humanly be, and not hokey to me at all in The Movie. All just My Humble Opinion, of course. I don't think that is spoilerish, as we discussed it earlier.


{{{ainon}}} Glad somebody missed me. Been too wrapped up in family and work to have any fun at all. If my friends hadn't been insistant and extremely helpful, I never would have gone to the trouble of my beautiful Elf costume - and probably wouldn't have gone to the roughly 2-day stay-awake trouble of the midnight premiere showing, either. Thank Eru they made me do it. What foolishness. What fun foolishness.

I have so much to say about The Movie that I don't know where to begin yet. I will say this: Legolas-induced feelings aside, Elijah's Frodo was the best part of The Movie for me. Not that anyone else was bad, but Frolijah is just too much to measure up to. Like anyone here is surprised by that. :rolleyes:

When you are all ready to discuss The Movie in detail, I'll jump in with my always-present opinions. I didn't approve of everything, but my advice to everyone is don't miss it!

Hyper? Exhausted? Despairing? And run ragged!

Yep, you could say that. I am sorry I haven’t been on so much lately (yeah, like you missed me…:rolleyes: :p) but I have been somewhat productive. I have the initial software for the Harem archive up and running – a place for all of our fics, vignettes, poems, etc. It has been educational because I am NOT a web page designer and am learning html and Frontpage as I go. At least I already knew UNIX, so that is a plus.

Originally posted by Vita S-B
ARRGHH! I cannot believe it. I set up the VCR to tape Leno last night, and must have mis-punched the channel number.

Vita – I FEEL your pain! That is EXACTLY what happened to me! Though I am pretty sure my kids had something to do with it. I swear, VCRs hate me… I can never get them to work right! I can build a computer from scrap parts but I can’t record one lousy program! I watched the beginning and hoped I would be able to watch the rest on the recording. :(

I hope you are recording all these specials! I will have the movie engrained in my brain (IN 2.5 HOURS!) but these specials are just precious! I would just love to see some of the rest of Leno – and any of these morning show interviews! I hope you are catching these, Elve!

More later, maybe.. I have a movie to catch…

Ariel

Back again!

Am seeing TT in 4 hours' time! Woohoo! Those who aren't seeing it today - your day for viewing it will be here before you know it! :)

Happy Birthday Ghyste! See you on Saturday!

{{{Carly}}} I missed you too, hon. Glad you enjoyed the film. And speaking of missing people - I haven't seen Wildgoose around here for eons - where has she gone?? :(


Who else was it who lives in here that said they're also a member of Adult Elijah Fans? Was it you EE? I'm seriously thinking of leaving that place, I joined it to have a break from some of the more teen-oriented sites thinking that theyre would be folks there that would be much the same as the people here to interact with but the only thing they ever discuss is EW's rumoured sexual preferences and gossip. :mad: They seem to get off on it all! Sometimes it annoys me, as I go there to read things about his career and stuff and all I see is 'Blah blah blah' but other times it gets so ridiculous it makes me LOL. Some people are so deluded. Am I glad that we here can be mature about things and talk about what really matters - his acting.

Takes a deep breath

Has everyone seen the new Gollum pic at Torn? He looks wicked.

That Jay Leno appearance sounds great! We get repeats of his show on one of the cable channels - maybe they'll show it. Does pathetic puppy-dog eyes. Please?! I want to see him with the animals!

Oh well, speak later, after TT!

x

Hi all! Since I am not seeing the film til tommorrow evening, :( I have been reading what the pros say about the movie. At rottentomaes, the film has received a 99% positive score. That is amazing!

This little excerpt is from the review by Charles Taylor at Salon.com:

Elijah Wood, whose performance is both intensely physical and vibrating with a sense of spiritual terror... manages the very difficult feat of playing a good character without becoming sappy or dear. When the ring starts to weigh him down (literally) we fear for Frodo because we are confronted with the real possibility that this good hobbit will go bad.


Have I mentioned that I cannot wait to see this movie? ;)

I just got back . I think I'm gonna be horribly in love with movieFrodo (like that's a surprise!). His character arc is taking off in ways I would never have considered, and that really, really intrigues me. Well, at least there'll be plenty of discussion here about it, that's for sure! I'm pretty sure I spotted new Froshadowings.

Hey Ariel! So that's why you've been MIA! And all I can say is wow -- that's one very educational project! Good luck! When may we come visit? :) Hope you'll have time to share your angsty thoughts after the movie. ;)

{{{Carly}}} Glad to know RL didn't keep you from thoroughly enjoying yourself!

I watched a charity premiere screening of the movie in a cineplex in a mall, where all 18 theatres had been booked for TTT alone. The theatre I was in was full, right up to the front row. When I left after the movie, there were just so many people I had to think that probably all the other theatres were filled to maximum capacity as well. These are people who would have paid twice the usual ticket price, so they're either very curious or LOTR fans. Or okay, maybe they were feeling charitable. :)

I'm so hyped I can't sleep (very rare thing to happen!) so I wrote up my first impressions in the Trilogy forum review thread too.

:k :k :k to all who're watching and will be watching TTT as their respective timezones let them!

Now I'd better go to bed. It's almost 3 am!!

Still with the displacement activity, since I can't see the movie yet.

There is a very nice interview with Elwood posted on CHUD now:

http://www.chud.com/news/dec02/dec18wood.php3

Just a little taste for you, of interest to all Faculty members, I know ;):

Q: Next year you'll be coming off of three of the biggest movies of this decade. Where do you see yourself going with that?

Wood: Probably smaller projects, but also take on roles that are more about who I am in my life now. Older. Darker, older, progress me into areas that I have not yet covered. Nothing specific but I want to constantly grow as an actor.

Q: Do you have anything lined up now?

Wood: There's this movie called Thumbsucker which I'm going to start sometime next year.

Q: Keanu Reeves just signed on to that.

Wood: Yeah. It's about a guy who is in his late teens but still sucks his thumb.

Q: Is that you?

Wood: Yeah, yeah. His orthodontist puts him under hypnosis and makes it so he can't gain any comfort anymore. He moves from one oral obsession to the next, unable to find any solid ground in his life, whilst having family difficulties and being insecure. It's really about those idiosyncrasies that people have which aren't socially acceptable and saying that it's ok. It's really funny, based on a fantastic book.




YEESS!!

That's a terrific interview, Vita! Thanks for that! Hmmm... if Thumbsucker truly does happen, it should be very interesting.

Elwood mentioned on TRL that Try Seventeen would be out next year. :cool:

I'm tap, tap, tapping my fingernails in anticipation of TTT. 24 hours and 4 minutes to go, for me. Eep.

Originally posted by ainon
I just got back . I think I'm gonna be horribly in love with movieFrodo (like that's a surprise!).

What she said!! I tried to post something coherent in the TTT review section in the Trilogy, it turned into a looooong "I love it" rant about the Frodo scenes and Elijah's acting. :o

Nice to see you here again, Alexan! :)

Good night, everyone.

Hello all!

Wow. Okay, that blew me away... knocked me on my butt... all that. I never cried once during any FOTR viewing, and I cried pretty much non stop during most of this movie. Not necesarily about anything in particular, but because of the overwhelming sense of sadness and despair and longing that permeated every aspect of the thing - the storylines, acting, music, colors. I don't feel like I can nitpick any details after this one viewing, because everything added in to make this overall feeling, and it worked for me. I'll need to see it a couple more times to work out the details.

I can say that, like everyone else, I am in awe of Gollum, both his characterization and the CG work. And Elijah was... exquisite. So proud of him. He does the darker stuff very convincingly. I look forward to discussing some of the scenes with you guys.

On another very cool note... did anyone see that Ash Wednesday is being released on DVD and VHS on February 18? You can preorder it at amazon.com.

Thanks for the Thumbsucker info, Vita! That's all good to hear. I'm still slightly amused at Elwood and Keanu working together... should be interesting.

Happy birthday, Ghyste! (It's still the 18th here, at least :) .)

This is a bit of displacement activity for me, too, even though I went to the midnight showing. I'd wanted to see the movie twice in the first 24 hours, like I did last year, to try to start getting a handle on it, but realized I didn't have enough cash :( ... At first I was scolding myself for misappropriation of funds, but then I did the math and figured out that I wouldn't have had enough for another ticket even if I hadn't stopped and bought that bottle of milk on the way home :rolleyes: . And, wouldn't you know it, none of the theater chains listed on the freebie inside the SE DVD seem to have a theater in town.

So, instead I'm here catching up on everything else--which isn't too bad, either :) . But because I have seen the movie only once, I'm not going to say too much about it--since I know my feelings about FotR changed after a few viewings (for the positive). But none of my qualms have anything to do with the acting--least of all Elijah's--so I don't mind talking about that :) .

Alexan (Hi, BTW), I'm adding Poltergeist to The Matrix as movies I'm glad I haven't seen--I don't see Agent Smith at Rivendell and had no visions of spirits when Elijah delivered that "They're here" line. Since I'd been staying away from actual clips, the first time I heard it was in the movie and... it's indescribable. I wouldn't even want to try to guess how many layers and how many different emotions are combined in those two words. That's the best delivery of a mundane line I've ever heard, knocking Elijah's "Hello" at the end of Bumblebee down to second place.

IMHO, it's just one more example of the advantage of his ability to "become" the character without having to run it all through conscious decisions. If you were going to rationally decide how to deliver that line, how would you do it? "Let's see, we need mostly fear, with an undercurrent of awe, an edge of doom and despair about being drawn into your fate, and just a touch of longing and attraction that's slowly growing stronger, all hemmed in by a sense of crushing claustrophobia." Uh, yeah... and that's just off the top of my head; I'm sure there's even more in there. If, instead, you could know that "This is how Frodo would feel at this moment," without having to analyze the emotions and then decide how to construct the way you'll deliver the line... How much more natural and true-to-life.

IMVVHO, that's at least partly where Elijah's "nuanced" emotions come from. Way back somewhere we talked about his performance in Huck Finn--how most actors at that age would have acted generically "afraid" at a number of places in the movie, but Elijah was afraid in a somewhat different way each time, depending on the circumstances the character was in. No wonder the director didn't want him messing around with "What's my motivation?" questions! Smart director.

-----------------------------
Thanks for the comments on anime Frodo--kinda hated to take him down. I may have to pull him out of retirement once in awhile.

I was going to say something about other topics that have been brought up, but my body seems to have decided it wants to sleep, and after today's topsy-turvy schedule of going to bed at the time I'm usually getting up, it's not giving me much choice. ;)

To all who haven't seen the movie yet--Enjoy!

I haven’t caught up with the thread yet, but just wanted to put on record my opinions on the movie before I let anybody else influence me. Sorry it’s long. It of course includes Frodo’s part of the story, but it’s my opinion on everything in it. Now, where to start?

SPOILERS, SPOILERS, SPOILERS

Well, the Frodo and Sam part of the story didn’t disappoint me for the most part. The taming of Smeagol was well done. The Dead Marshes were great, especially the CG on Gollum pulling Frodo out of the Dead Marshes. I liked the introduction to Smeagol and the inner debate between Gollum and Smeagol. The scene under the bush was great, with Frodo trying to resist the ring and Sam pulling his hand away, and Frodo getting Weathertop flashbacks as the Nazgul flew overhead. The scene at the Black Gate was great. Though I wonder if it would confuse newbies as to why they had to choose a different way. To me, it seemed that even though Gollum stopped them entering with this army of people, they could quite easily slip in with the next army. Frodo’s first attack on Sam was fine, when Frodo questioned Sam for calling Gollum names. That was heartwrenching and very well done. The second attack, in Osgiliath I didn’t love so much, but didn’t hate it either. In movie context it worked well. The stewed rabbit scene and Easterlings attack was done well. The ophilant was believable. Faramir was fine to me. It was great to hear him talk finally. I don’t think his character was too far from book Faramir. Wasn’t book Faramir tempted by the ring also? Didn’t book Faramir treat them efficiently and blind fold them too? There wasn’t enough depth to his character – there wasn’t time for it, but from what I saw, it seemed fairly true to character. The scene at the Forbidden Pool was great. The thing that bothered me most about this part of the story was what happened in Osgiliath (turns out I’ve been pronouncing it wrong all this time!) Not that the action took place in Osgiliath, which didn’t bother me at all. But what was this immensely scary thing that was meant to happen? Was it the Black Rider? That wasn’t scary at all. We already faced nine in Fellowship, so what was so scary about one? Or was the scary thing meant to be Frodo attacking Sam?? Also there were no sign of the sewers that I could see. I did like the ending with Sam getting his: “Don’t the great stories ever end,” speech. For the most part I had few or minor complaints about that part of the story.

As for the rest … I was very disappointed with the Merry and Pippin part of the story. For those who think that Peter Jackson loves angst and will milk it for all it’s worth – well, M+P’s best angst moments come in TTT and he failed to show any of them. It’s not like they would have taken any more time. I wanted to see them being driven along by the Orcs with whips at their heels rather than just being carried. I wanted to see Pippin leave the march to throw down his brooch but instead he just tore it off with his teeth as he was being carried. And most of all I wanted to see M+P toying with Grishnakh and his ring-lust and have him mauling and finger them like he did in the book. One piece I did like was the editing between Aragorn tracking the hobbit movements at the orc pyre and Merry and Pippin escaping. That was done well. Treebeard was okay. I wasn’t too sure about him at first, but came to like him fairly quickly. But for those who think that Billy or Dom exaggerated when they said they spent most of the film up a tree – they weren’t! Treebeard was great, but M+P had very little left to do once they ran into him. They got across well the unhastiness of Treebeard in as little time as possible. I liked the line (straight from the book, isn’t it?): “Okay, we have come to a decision. We agree that you are not orc spies.” JRD did very well as the voice of Treebeard. The sacking of Isengard was well done, but the Ent on fire running into the water got a few unintentional laughs.

As for the rest of the movie: Mixed feelings about most of it. Helm’s Deep was certainly magnificent. It was a bit confusing, but I don’t think that’s necessarily a bad thing. I found it confusing in the book too, plus, war is confusing. Liked that we got a bit of Gimli and Legolas orc headcounting. Thought, it would have been nice for newbies to see who won out in the end. I didn’t mind Elves being there. Okay, so that wasn’t in the book, but I think it was still in the spirit of Tolkein and the line about renewing the great alliance between Elves and Men did touch me. I was very moved by Haldir dying. I’m glad we got to see somebody we “know” dying rather than just nameless Rohan men. The best part of the whole movie was seeing the young boys gear up for battle. That made me cry a whole lot. And the scene with Aragorn and Hama’s son, where Aragorn tests out the sword, knowing it’s not really a great sword but trying to lift the spirits of the boy, was well played out. However just before the battle commenced, it seemed like PJ was in two minds about what he wanted us to feel. On the one hand we saw all the Rohan refugees hiding out in the Glittering Caves (and I did notice Billy and Katie Jackson in there!) tugging at our heartstrings, and on the other hand, we had Gimli and his comic relief, unable to see over the battlement walls. The two emotions didn’t mesh well there, I didn’t think. But it seemed a little bit too unbelievable to think that they were outnumbered 300 to 10,000 and yet when Eomer and Gandalf and a handful of riders arrived, suddenly they were able to defeat all the orcs. I think a newbie especially would be confused about that. It wasn’t explained why Gandalf left them, saying he would be back in five days either.

My favourite part of the Aragorn side of things, was the trip from Edoras to Helm’s Deep. I loved hearing Gimli tell Eowyn about female Dwarves and the little play-acting between Aragorn and Eowyn where he makes the sign for the female Dwarves’ beards was sweet and touching. The warg battle was also a lot better, in my opinion than even Helm’s Deep itself. However there was too much of: “oh he’s dead … wait a second he’s okay,” going on throughout the whole film: after the warg battle with Aragorn, with Merry and Pippin, again with Aragorn in Helm’s Deep. If some people thought it was overdone in Fellowship it was even more overdone in TTT.

I didn’t like their interpretation of Saruman possessing Theoden. It didn’t make sense for Wormtongue to be whispering in the king’s ear if the king was already possessed by Saruman. I did like the scene between Wormtongue and Eowyn a lot, and liked that Theodred got a scene.

I liked the beginning – with the scene of Gandalf’s fall in Moria as heard from outside the Misty Mountains. I liked his fight with the Balrog.

I liked the Elf stuff, especially between Elrond and Arwen. The father and daughter did not have any scenes together in Fellowship so it was nice to see that developed. And leaving us unsure of whether she would leave or not. I liked the image of the future with Arwen attending Aragorn’s funeral. The elf thought projection between Elrond and Galadriel impressed.

I knew Shelob wouldn’t be in, but I didn’t realise it would end with Helm’s Deep without any sort of parlay between Gandalf and Saruman. I thought (and resigned myself to the fact) that Saruman would end up impaled on a spike at the end of this film. No Pippin and the Palantir either. It makes me think that there’s going to be a lot to do in RotK and nothing will get the time it deserves. I already felt that way about this film. I knew and accepted that Frodo’s story wouldn’t get a whole lot of time, but it seemed like nothing was given its proper time. It seemed like the film was missing the last reel or something.

END SPOILERS

So was this film better than the first? I thought in the beginning that it wasn’t. Then towards the middle I thought it was. But by the end I thought it wasn’t again. I would say that it was better in some ways and worse in others. This was a new experience for me. When I saw Fellowship I was totally new to Middle-earth. This time around, I was surprised at how much of a book purist I actually became in just one year. For the most part I was happy with the movie, but I’m hoping that the niggling things that I wasn’t so keen on will get easier by discussing it and reading other people’s opinions.

Am going back to catch up on everybody else’s posts now.

Originally posted by tgshaw
I wouldn't even want to try to guess how many layers and how many different emotions are combined in those two words. That's the best delivery of a mundane line I've ever heard, knocking Elijah's "Hello" at the end of Bumblebee down to second place.

YES!! Exactly! Elijah's acting was amazingly flawless. And considering he was given a wider range of emotions to play...wow. I join Maeg in gushing incoherently. :D

spoilers



The arguing scenes with Sam when Gollum is fishing...wow. The interplay of his conflicting emotions is made plain. You get the distinct feeling he understands Sam's concerns but is frustrated by Sam's inablilty/flat refusal to see how important Gollum's fate is to him. His annoyance with Sam is perfect.

I know Frodo shouted very little in the book but given how much closer and more open movie Frodo and Sam are, the anger fits very well. Aren't we always frustrated most with the ones we love? :D And those people who said EW could only show fear and angst? NOT!!

Wow. He does heated anger VERY WELL.

The Osgilith scenes were incredible. The Line is superb and chilling. His body language and posture as he walks through the fighting men, so remote...and removed from them and at the same time, walking with such confidence..breathtaking.

The fight with Sam...completely realistic. NOT overdone at all and genuinely horrifying. The look on his face when he drops the sword!! AIEE!!




end spoilers

I still have problems with the plot and PJ's changes..but EW's acting? The highlight of the film, easily. I'm already wishing for a DVD so I can fast forward through some other parts (Arwen? :rolleyes: Oh, but Merry really rocked, as well. GO MERRY!! Not enough hobbitteses. We wants moooore hobbiteses~!!) :D :k

I agree with everyone. :D (How's that for diplomacy?)

When I get half a minute I'll be off to the Trilogy forum to hash it all out, but right now I'll just say that Elwood was, as usual and as expected, simply superb. I had no problem at all with the "mundane" line you've been talking about, and even though I knew ahead of time people were talking about the "Poltergeist" thing, it never entered my head during the movie.

I remember PJ saying he had to work to get Elwood to feel anger, and apparently whatever he did worked! Goodness, this guy's range is unbelievable. Every single shot conveyed a multitude of emotions. I was especially flabbergasted when...

*SPOILER*



Frodo drew his sword on Sam.



*END SPOILER*

So many different thoughts and feelings flickered on Frodo's face during that short time... I was blown away.

Elwood, duuuuuuuuuude, you rock.:cool:

Wow! I was a wreck before the movie...I am a bigger wreck now. I was instantly in love with FOTR, but I think it will take more than one viewing to say that about TTT. While I liked most of it a lot, it left me feeling confused and wanting more. Not confused by what was going on...confused with my own reaction. I am beginning to think that those newbies who haven't read the books have an advantage here. They aren't saying, "Hey, it didn't happen like that!" or "Wait, what are they doing there??" They are simply enjoying a good story, well told. I sat there at the end, while the theater erupted in cheers, and was just numb. Not at all the reaction I expected to have. As time passed and after sleeping on it, I started warming up to it. But I had hoped to be swept away like I was with FOTR, and I wasn't...not from any fault of the movie I think, but because of my own over excitement and 364 days of wondering and anticipating something that I so wanted to see.

I hope that after seeing it again, I can settle into it a bit...enjoy it more, and appreciate it for what it is.

All that said...EW was GORGEOUS and I forgot how great it was to have his closeups there on the big screen. Even if I hated the movie (which I don't) I would have to return again and again just to watch him. He blew me away and he, at least, didn't disappoint me in the least.

Saw TTT a second time last night, and if I were writing that list of emotions contained in "They're here" today, it would be quite different from the one I wrote after one viewing. I'm not going to bother rewriting it, though, because after three viewings, it would be different again. It's just too complex to grab hold of all at once.

I'm going to post most of my spoilerish comments in the Trilogy (when I have time :rolleyes: ), but specifically on movie-Frodo's characterization and how Elijah handles it:

TTT MOVIE SPOILERS--To end of post












Although I'm not happy about the huge departures from the book, I don't have problems character-wise with Frodo in this movie. His emotions are externalized much more than in the book, but that's as expected--both because it's a movie and we can't get inside his thoughts, and because he's still being played as much younger than book-Frodo which, IMHO, affects a lot of his actions. I don't think we would have caught book-Frodo in the Ring-caressing, because he would have been too aware of what was happening to him and would have fought against it until he couldn't anymore. Movie-Frodo OTOH is still figuring all this out, and is probably not only unaware of how dangerous it is to touch and look at the Ring as much as he is, but also actively encouraged by the movie-Ring (much more "active" than the book-Ring) to stay unaware and see no harm in it.

The first time Frodo lashes out at Sam, it is over issues that come between them in the book--the movie seems to gather them all up and put them into this one scene, as well as externalizing the emotions involved, neither of which is unusual for a movie. IMHO, movie-Frodo's younger age plays into this, too.

Most of all, I can accept the anger (and even the hate) movie-Frodo shows because he always does come back to "himself." We're not left at the end with a gibbering idiot or a Frodo who already can't do anything for himself. But the audience has an idea of what can happen, which I'm sure will be used to heighten tension in RotK. I've read a couple of reviews that complained about the similar endings of FotR and TTT, but I think that's completely planned--they're too similar in some ways to be just a result of the script writers to come up with a different ending.

One similarity I read in an interview (can't remember with who) is that each ends with a view of Mordor--although they're very different views, the second one hugely heightened and the hobbits seemingly unaware of it. One I picked up myself (and so am especially fond of :p ) is that we get the exact same smile from Frodo. I think it was in a thread in the Trilogy where, after the SE DVD came out, I posted two pics of Frodo with this smile--one during the scene with Sam complaining about not being able to sleep on those "great, dirty roots," and the second at the end, just before Frodo turns and says, "I'm glad you're with me." I may try to find those again and post them here for comparison to the third occurrence--which is at the end of TTT with Frodo walking ahead of Sam. After seeing the first two, I started calling it the "secret Sam smile," and the third one fits right in. In all three occurrences, Sam is talking and Frodo is facing away from him. IMHO, it reads as, "I love Sam when he's being most Sam-like, but I'm not going to let him know about it." The situations vary in seriousness, but IMHO that translation works for each one, whether Sam is talking about hope that they'll see their companions again (a very Sam-like thing to say) or complaining about a tree root in his back.

I haven't noticed this exact same smile on Frodo's face on any other occasion--and that's where Elijah's acting comes in. In order to have a "secret Sam smile" which he uses only three times in two movies (I'll be looking for it in #3), and which is uniquely recognizable, he has to have a whole range of "smiles"--to say nothing of other emotions--for a whole range of situations. I can't imagine any of the other actors in the movie (with the possible exception of Orlando Bloom) being this nuanced.

And those instances of "coming back to himself"--no words to describe them, again, especially the final one. The second time I saw TTT, I was able to pay a bit more attention to the gradual, moment to moment (I'd say breath by breath) transformation back to himself in that one. To make it even more difficult (and amazingly true), the madness has to decrease at the same time the horror of realizing what he's just done--and almost did--increases. It's simultaneously frightening and heartbreaking--making me want to escape from him and hold him at the same time. In all truth, I don't know of another actor who could have shown that transformation with more reality.

Of course, sadly, these are the kinds of things a one-time viewer most likely wouldn't notice. (Not that I'd in any way want Elijah to become less subtle--but I'd sure like people watching him to be more aware it.)

[And a final Frodo characterization note--If Frodo had completely lost it, Sam would be dead. There's still something in him, even under the Ring's control, that keeps that sword point at Sam's throat instead of cutting it. So far, at least, there's nothing I can't accept about the way Frodo's been written in the movie.]

*SPOILER* - entire post









Originally posted by tgshaw
And a final Frodo characterization note--If Frodo had completely lost it, Sam would be dead. There's still something in him, even under the Ring's control, that keeps that sword point at Sam's throat instead of cutting it.
I completely agree, tg. I was just thinking about that last night. If Frodo had been completely out of control, he would not have hesitated a moment to go ahead and kill Sam. Something held him back, and that was the true spirit of Frodo. Even had Sam not pleaded with him, he would have realized what was happening.

Love the "secret Sam smile" observation. :)

WARNING***This entire post is a movie spoiler!***WARNING



The more I think about this film, the more brilliant it becomes. :D

tg's post about Frodo as he attacks Sam with Sting, and then slowly comes back to himself, got me thinking about Frodo holding Sting to Gollum's neck early in the film. We then see Gollum at war with himself, Frodo's realization that Gollum mirrors what could happen--what is happening--to him, Frodo's Gollum-like behavior in the cave when Faramir discovers he bears the Ring, and THEN Frodo's "Gollum side" attacking his best friend.

And all this is reflected in Elijah's changing expression as he holds Sting to Sam's throat.

At the end of the film, Frodo is again himself, complete with 'secret Sam' smile.


TORN has a link to Harry Knowles' review of TTT. Harry knows a thing or two about film, especially film history. Read what he has to say--it will either validate what you already think about TTT, or for those who are having problems with their reaction to it (and I know there are many!) it may provide some food for thought. At any rate, it makes for interesting reading.

I can finally read the spoilers! I am so happy. I'm not going to discuss the movie at the moment -- I just saw it yesterday afternoon, and I find that I'm still digesting and absorbing it. I have tickets for a Sunday viewing. Yay!

Plus, I've made myself a bit sick, either from holiday anxiety or film anxiety (both completely feasible!), so I'm going to try to take it easy today. Got to get better so that I can go on Sunday, after all. Suffice it to say, for now, that I did enjoy it, and am immensely glad that I didn't just finish re-reading it, as was the case last year.

The reason I'm here today is to point out this article:Wood will join "Sunshine"cast (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20021220/film_nm/wood_1) I don't know if this was already known by any of you (I seem to remember something being mentioned about Jim Carrey recently), but it looks interesting.

(out from lurkdom...)

It is such a comfort to share these confusing reactions to TTT with you guys. I knew when I reeled out of TTT, despairing, disappointed, grieving, overwhelmed...that I could find some perspective with you fellow Tolkienites.

I think TTT is brilliantly designed to make us grieve...for the lost Shire, lost tenderness, lost selves, lost Gandalf the Gray, lost Haldir and Theodred, lost innocence...

I grieved. Even for the loss of the opportunity to repeat my joy in Fellowship.

TTT requires every character therein, and even us as the audience, and even more, those of us who have such a vivid interaction and knowledge of The Text, to participate in and come to terms with LOSS...and each, in their or our own way, to come to the place which Sam vocalizes to Frodo: a belief that there is still and yet something good.

Jackson is brilliant. He's made a movie about mortality, death, and our place in the world...pretending it's an action adventure flick.

It really hurts to see all of ME get whomped.

I can't tell you all how much it means and how helpful it is to read your thoughtful and insightful posts.

Hi, Notabluemaia! Glad you found your way here. I thought I'd 'seen' you lurking recently.:) Speaking of insightful, your post was exactly that. So...what does it say about a person when she loves a film about loss and grief? Am I a pervert?

Bunniebugs, thank you for the news. The cast looks terrific! Another film that will probably get a theatrical release unlike certain others...Chain of Fools, Ash Wednesday...grumble grumble... :rolleyes: . The article say filming is due to begin next month. So---when is 'Thumbsucker' being filmed?:confused:

Another film about memory manipulation, it would seem :) Still, anything with Wood is going to be watchable, right?

Welcome back Notabluemaia. I second your thanks to everybody for helping me reconcile some of the stuff I don't like about the movie. I'm going for my second viewing at the weekend, and now that I know what to expect, I hope to come out a bit more positive.

I'm off from now until next Friday, so if I'm not around, that's the reason why. Good luck to everybody seeing the film and hope to read lots more insightful posts when I return.

Just checking in...

Hi Notablue... glad you liked it. Perhaps when I get over feeling irritated at the two places that departures from canon REALLY irked me, and have my cry over the complete loss of Frodo's you know whats, I will see some of that too.

I have to get these disappointments out of my system though.

While I know PJ is playing Frodo as younger and less experienced... I certainly HOPE he is going to show us SOME real resistance to the ring - SOME hint that he has the strength within him to make it to MD - at some point along the line... I will have to look (REALLY HARD) to see the supposed determination those of you who liked it saw. All I saw was him getting repeatedly overcome. He's not SUPPOSED to be overcome until MD! *sigh*

This is my viceral reaction speaking. The Frodo stuff is the only part that bothered me - but as he IS my favorite character, it has colored my opinion of the whole film. I need some time to bitch.

Ariel

Ariel, may I join you in that?

Mild spoilers for TTT till end of post
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I have been trying to keep mum after my 2nd viewing of TTT, because I am so disappointed in how Frodo is portrayed.

Disappointed; - not about EJW's acting, which remains fantastic and unparallelled awesome. Noone else could have acted those scenes the way he did.

Disappointed; - not about every single Frodo scene viewed separately and on its own. There's nothing there that is really off, everything is easily acceptable and can be completely explained by film Frodo's youth and by the movie media's need to show mental processes and psychological struggles more clearly through action and conflict....
Even the Osgiliath scenes. Seen on a stand-alone basis I'm completely OK with Frodo's part in those, and the acting is stellar and makes me shudder big time. (I'm not OK with Faramir, though, nor that moronic nazgul).

But the sum total? :(

Where's the the beauty and greatness of soul, the conscious will to go on no matter what in order to save the world, the silent and strong determination and courage, the nobility, as some have said: the backbone? Even Frodo's compassion and pity for Gollum is presented as being coloured by the fact that the film, and Frodo himself, draws such clear parallells between Frodo and Gollum. Does Frodo pity Gollum of a pure and great heart, or because he wants to see proof that he himself can be saved? ........And Frodo lies to Faramir!

Film Frodo shows strength and determination in that initial taming of Smeagol (wielding Sting) scene. After that, there's just not enough............ Just a couple of small reflective and determined scenes to counterbalance all those frantic, desperate, shouting, addictive, downcast, depressed, angry, despairing, obsessive and posessed scenes would have done the trick. A couple of scenes equal to Frodo's talk with Gandalf in Moria and the riverbank determination scene in FotR, would have convinced me this is the essence of Tolkien's Frodo even so. But they are not there....... So I just haven't managed yet to reconcile myself to the sum total of how Frodo is portrayed in the film. (But, I do love Elijah's acting. I LOVE it!!)

Although, reading the opinions here, from tg, Goldie and others, does brighten my view a little bit. Perhaps I'll yet manage to get used to and completely accept this Frodo (and his bossy Sam).

Please believe; - I am not writing this to rant. I so much wanted to love and understand the TTT film Frodo. I was ready to accept and like everything. But I'm disappointed about this and it's very difficult to hide.

Maeglian: Where's the the beauty and greatness of soul, the conscious will to go on no matter what in order to save the world, the silent and strong determination and courage, the nobility, as some have said: the backbone?
PJ gave all of that to Sam. Unlike the book, where Frodo did not need pep talks to keep going, although in the end he needed help physically. But his courage and his will to go on did not falter, as it does in the film.

Originally posted by Maeglian
Just a couple of small reflective and determined scenes to counterbalance all those frantic, desperate, shouting, addictive, downcast, depressed, angry, despairing, obsessive and obsessed scenes would have done the trick. A couple of scenes equal to Frodo's talk with Gandalf in Moria and the riverbank determination scene in FotR, would have convinced me this is the essence of Tolkien's Frodo even so. But they are not there.......

YESYESYESYESYESYESYESYES!!!!!!!

I am not picky... just one... just ONE sign of the Frodo I loved... that would be all I needed...

*Sigh*

Originally posted by Louise
PJ gave all of that to Sam. Unlike the book, where Frodo did not need pep talks to keep going, although in the end he needed help physically. But his courage and his will to go on did not falter, as it does in the film.

Yes.... :mad: Preaching to the choir there, Louise!

Ariel

Well, colleagues. I have seen it. And I am among those whose feelings are mixed. The three hours just zipped by, the scenery was marvelous. the battle scenes were amazing. I thought the editing was excellent. Not being a purist, I was not *too* irritated by changes in the narrative. I thought Treebeard was great. Gollum rocked.

I am still trying to come to grips with Frodo, though. It will take me some time to fathom the changes made to his character.

And it will take some time to understand Wood's portrayal. He is such a subtle actor that I didn't get it first time around. I'm planning to see it again in a few days.

This sounds pretty tepid. I feel rather like a kid the day after Christmas. The anticipation is over...

Goodness, such strong and mixed reactions,here and in the Harem its quite perturbing...
The temptation to read the details is getting too strong so I'm signing out til I see the movie: (yes Ainon I actually will this time ;) ) so am here to wish you lot a very merry christmas in case it takes me a while to get a ticket. This small town seems rather unexpectedly full the last few days.

On another note re professional behaviour I was really impressed by EW at the post premiere interviews. Dom and Billy were hilarious but very very hungover (spot the hungover hobbit was the announcers lead in line :rolleyes: ) and Dom admitted freely he remembered nothing of the party but pretty girls, Billy and sausage rolls...:p
The interviewer then said (paraphrase) but someone at least must have been on the orange juice, and to get a sensible answer just find Elijah Wood, add water and stir gently (they gave him a water to sip, he was tired). And there he was, immaculate, cheerful if rather quiet , answering questions he's answered only a million times in his usual thoughtful way.
I was proud of that young man...:)

Ariel, Louise, Alexan: Thank you. It helps to know I'm not alone, of course.

One ray of hope though: I was watching the film with a group of friends, most have read the book but none are quite as "obsessed" ( :o ) as me. After the film I went into the "It's all about Aragorn, Frodo is portrayed as too weak and ready to give in" rant. All of them protested. All of them insisted that to them, Frodo is the hero of the book, and they felt this was clearly shown in TTT the film. All of them said they interpreted Frodo's TTT behaviour as due to the Ring only, and so they only respected him more for managing to go on *at all*. :)

Edit:
OTOH, after having visited various other threads, I've found out that there are many more who are very sad about the changes made to Frodo's character (and discuss it much more eloquently than me.....). As to my friends' reactions, I think Ghyste may have an explanation for their views that kind of diminishes the ray of hope I saw:Originally posted by Ghyste, in the Harem thread:
It is indeed a lot easier for the general film-going audience to relate to a modern parable about a young junkie’s fears of what he may be turning into than the real (but unfashionable) idea that love for your homeland can lend you the strength to attempt an impossible task beyond all hope. I fear this may be all too true. If changes were made to Frodo's character for no other reason than to make him more "accesible" and "recognisable" to a modern (cynical?) audience, I am extremely sorry.

-----------

From Primrose aka Cadmo:
....they gave him a water to sip, he was tired That he manages to stand on his feet at all after the last 2 weeks' promotional activities all over the world is almost scary. Professional behaviour to the extreme and beyond the call of duty. I am very impressed. :)

Maeglian:
That he manages to stand on his feet at all after the last 2 weeks' promotional activities all over the world is almost scary. Professional behaviour to the extreme and beyond the call of duty. I am very impressed.

ditto for me, folks. I cannot believe how hard he must have worked over the last month.

me, too. so I am off for parts warm for a spell until the new year. So merry holidays and a happy new year to all. :k

Happy holidays, Vita, if you're still reading...

I'm not making any movie comments this time around to add to what I've already said about Elijah's acting. Lots to think about.

---------

Sean Astin was on with Jay Leno last night. He looked great. They talked a lot about how he'd had to gain 35 pounds for LotR and now he's lost it all... wonder if he'll have to pack it back on for RotK reshoots.

But the reason I'm bringing it up in this thread is that Sean took Jay to task for hauling out the old "so you're still living with your mom" stuff with Elijah two nights earlier. Good naturedly, but he meant it: "You're messin' with my boy!" :D Then he proceeded to tell Jay--so directly that it kind of surprised me--that Elijah "takes care of his whole family." And I thought--yeah, it's really more like his mom (and his siblings) live with him. That's something it would have been difficult for Elijah to come out and say (especially on such a non-serious show) without having it reflect badly on him and/or his mother, one way or another. But coming from Sean it was completely different. [I liked how Elijah had handled it two nights earlier--basically upping the joke until it got ridiculous, like saying he'd brought 16 months' worth of dirty laundry home from New Zealand for his mom to wash.]

During the interview with Sean, Jay tried to defend himself by joking again about how it'd be hard to bring a girl home if your mom was in the kitchen. Sean said, basically, that if Elijah wanted to do that, he'd find a way. Then he added, "You don't have to worry about Elijah." Boom. Last word. End of discussion.

Sometimes it's nice to have a big brother around. :p

tgshaw: Thank you for the lovely report re Sean's appearance on Leno. I completely missed it; nice to see that brotherly affection to which each so often alludes in action. Elijah did the same thing for Sean on the Regis/Kelly show about a week ago. Regis misspoke Sean's name and prior famous film (sic: Austin/Rocky !). On camera, Elijah corrected the film title, graciously and politely, then, after a commercial, Regis correctec his misstatement in name, clearly at Elijah's reminder during the break. All done with good humor and politesse...probably part of the reason Ebert referred to him as "He''s smart, isn't he..." Another factor in that comment is an interchange with Kelly after a film clip (the "we're not alone" clip): Kelly alluded to E's eyes...he just charmingly batted his eyes at her...she also suggested that after this hugely successful film, he should perhaps receive more money...he leaned forward towards her and said, warmly and conspiratorially, that that was a very good idea and if she perhaps knew somebody to talk to...laughter...suggestion of one of the producer names, I think...then E said, again graciously, that the actors were actually taken care of quite well. (Couldn't remember seeing this info posted at the time of the interview; someone back then had wondered at the reason for Ebert's compliment...) EW was VERY poised and charming...even sweetly kissed Kelly's hand!

AS TO TTT: Spoilers! (mild overview not specific film images)












I really agree with Ariel's and others' regret and sadness about the change in Frodo's character; also that Sam is more "overprotective" and perhaps less tender...I wonder if the character arc is as Galadriel says in the voiceover communique with Elrond...that Frodo will realize something...Perhaps in Fellowship, Frodo has to come to terms with the mission coming to him, in TTT with the power and knowledge of the ring, and in RoTK, we'll see Frodo, with full understanding of the Ring's nature, will be more the wise Frodo who carries the burden with dignity before the inevitability of his own frailness and mortality...TTT is about grief...I thihk PJ wants us to grieve Frodo's lost innocence and will show us his strength and forbearance and sacrifice in Part Trois.




end spoiler





I'm seeing TTT again tomorrow, hoping that the unsettling experience of book v. film, will fall into a love for both, as it has with Fellowship. I know some of you guys were able to resolve the conflict there...tho, like Pearl, tgshaw, and others, I cannot forget lost brave Frodo in the barrow dwight fight nor the famous "By Elbereth...neither the Ring nor me!" I have however been able to forgive...and perhaps can do so about TTT's discrepancies from beloved text. At least on the forgive and forget model, we can look to Frodo himself!

ok..better late than never. I *have* to add my 2 cents worth (and I haven't even seen the film yet-waiting to go with Prim) to the discussion

Azalea (sis) would you believe, got a ticket to the auckland Gala screening, which was on at the same time as the Wellington one (in NZ/Middle Earth). well you can guess where the stars were...so, while she was choosing between three (3!!) types of bubbly mere mortals (i.e. me and prim) were watching the premiere on tv.

Best moment: Catching EW on the seats at the side of the Red Carpet (yes, a really *huge* red carpet) totally ignoring the crowd, and ......playing his gameboy :eek: :D

As Prim said, tho, he was the consumate professional when it came to saying stuff about TTT and about wellington and nz. Billy boyd and DM were also great, all three were keen to have houses here, and seemed to like wellington (slight sniff here, auckland and the bay of islands are *much* nicer :cool: :D )

..apparently they asked our prime minister if she would allow them residency and she said "oh, ok" :eek: :D :D

(Prim brought me down to earth by saying that the immigration minister decides who to let into the country...but then, who in their right mind *wouldn't* let EW in ????

viola

edit: saw THE air nz plane on tv...it looks kinda cool...think I can get to ride on it on the way back to the UK?????:)

Welcome back Alexan and Nota! *HUGS* to both of you!

I watched FotR and TTT back to back yesterday - made my head reel, I can tell you, and it was quite an interesting experience viewing the movies with a Legolass. She'd swoon over Haldir and Legolas and I'd just go, "Meh." I tried to educate her on the merits of wound-weary, suffering hobbits but ... *sigh* some people just refuse to see the light. ;) :D

Having watched the two movies back to back I'll say the characterisation of movieFrodo works for me. At some point I'd come to accept movieFrodo as a separate new character to get to know and love, so that's probably why I'm not particularly concerned by 'changes' to Frodo's character. MovieFrodo is totally new to me - I'm not comparing him to anyone anymore. That doesn't mean there're scenes from the book that I don't miss. It's just that rather than feeling any loss, I'm excited and curious to see where movieFrodo will go from here.

tg - thanks for the Sean Astin on Leno news, and that's a terrific observation of the secret Sam smile! And I'll add my 'me too!' to all that's been said about that Sting moment with Sam.

Btw, this is something Sean Astin said during the MSN Live Chat. From the TORn transcript:


Sarah Proudfoot in Onstage_1 asks: <snip> ... What is the wierdest fan you've encountered?

Sean_Astin_Live says: Outside of the Tonight Show where there was a lady who wanted me to pass a letter onto Elijah and I told her I couldn't because I didn't know if I could make sure he got it. I don't know if she was genuinely upset or just inappropriately intense.

Sean_Astin_Live says: When you read a book and have an emotional experience with the characters, a lot of people cry when they read books, and the same thing happens in movies, the relationship they develop with the characters. I wouldn't have it any other way, but in the real world you have to be careful of people who have intense reactions. I feel it's my job not to exacerbate the problem.


And that's such great news about Elijah being in a new movie that is actually going to be filmed and has a very good chance of mainstream international release!

Viola, that would be just so, so cool if you get to ride the Frodo plane. Except, how would you take a photo to prove it? :p Hope you all enjoyed the movie ... eagerly awaiting your opinions on it.

estella -- if you've come back to lurk ... my condolences on you having to wait till next week ... :eek:






edit

This is from a Sean Astin interview at ign.com ... POSSIBLE SPOILER TO THE EXTENDED VERSION TTT


There were bits of the scenes that we filmed, there were scenes that we filmed this summer that were kind of additional scenes that were created or invented based on what he knew the structure of the movie was, after we put it together and worked with it for awhile, that ultimately didn't make it in the final theatrical release that are pretty cool. There's a scene where Frodo's asleep at a campfire, and Sam has a little box of salt. It was kind of a bookend thing, that at a certain part in the beginning of the movie, I drop this box of salt out of my pocket when we're climbing down the rocks and Frodo catches it, and he hands it back to me. He asks what it is, and I tell him, and he says, "Oh, it's a little bit of home," and we kind of have this moment reflecting back to the shire. But, I think, we kind of screeched the plot to a halt early on, so, it didn't make it in there. But then there's another scene later on where I'm sitting alone by the campfire after Frodo is – it's clear to Sam that Frodo is really not well, that the ring is having a really bad, a negative impact on him, and I have this moment where I talk about the fact that he doesn't remember, and he's not like he used to be. I'm actually explaining to Gollum that this isn't the real Frodo, that you don't really know who Frodo is. It's a really sweet little scene, at least as it was written. I don't know if we ultimately nailed it...




END EXTENDED VERSION TTT SPOILER






TTT SPOILER COMMENTS - RIGHT TO END OF POST




I'm wondering how many different versions or takes of scenes were done. Those who've watched the movie -- notice the editing slip in the cave? It didn't affect the story per se, but it did tell me that there are different versions.

I'm also thinking there're probably at least two versions of Frodo & Sam being caught by Faramir's men. One of the earliest circulated TTT Frodo & Sam pics is nothing like what we see in the movie.


Maeg:
Does Frodo pity Gollum of a pure and great heart, or because he wants to see proof that he himself can be saved? ........And Frodo lies to Faramir!

About the latter - why is that a problem? ;)

As for the former, IMHO, it's both. Pure pity came first - he even echoes Gandalf's opinion on the matter.

If changes were made to Frodo's character for no other reason than to make him more "accesible" and "recognisable" to a modern (cynical?) audience, I am extremely sorry.

I thought it was a good thing - *now* we see what Frodo's personal crisis is. It's not just that the Ring is getting heavier. It's not that he's having bad dreams that he can't remember upon waking. It's not even that he's worn-out (and beautifully) weary. The Ring is going to be the end of him one way or the other and he knows that and he's exactly as frightened as he should be.

As for the love for homeland bit - that was emphasised in the movie, a few times. Some say too many times. :p So okay, I'm cynical in the sense I didn't need Frodo to launch into a Shire speech too. :D

Sam didn't come across as bossy to me. He came across as being of a distinctly lower class than Frodo, sure ;) and jealous, but I found that to be believable. Anyway, I like the way Moriarty (at AICN) summed things up in his review:

"It’s starting to dawn on Sam now that Frodo isn’t going to survive this journey. Somewhere along the way, Sam’s found himself on a death march, and it horrifies him."

However, I did take issue with Sam yanking Frodo up to his feet just so he could deliver that last heartfelt line to Frodo's face ... :rolleyes:

Also noted that for some inexplicable reason, the Ring's chain is longer during the Frodo-Sam confrontation. Did like the way Frodo closes his eyes just before he tries to put the Ring on during that Osgiliath Nazgul moment. The impression I got was that he was thinking that maybe he didn't have to resist anymore, and that if he stopped resisting, maybe, just maybe, he would find relief.


Something I'd been meaning to ask -- in the FotR Extended Version, during the added scene when Sam is reciting his Gandalf poem, we see Frodo in the background, out of focus. Does it look like Frodo's holding the Ring, or maybe touching the chain its on?






END SPOILER COMMENTS

Ainon, thank you for that Sean Astin quote information from ign. Both those scenes sound *great*. Hope they make it into the EEDVD.


Spoilers - till end of post
*
*
*


Ainon - I really don't mind changes from the book. That isn't the problem. I love FotR Frodo and he isn't exactly book canon. The problem is that emotions and sentiments and characterisations that IMO could and should have been shown by *this* version of Frodo really aren't. Or at least I'm not able to see it as clearly as you yet. And of course, I really didn't need Frodo to launch into a "We will fight them on the beaches..." speech either. :eek:The Ring is going to be the end of him one way or the other and he knows that and he's exactly as frightened as he should be. Is he? That's what I don't manage to see yet. Yes, he should be frightened, and in the face of that express determination and will to go on, without anyone having to make speeches about it to him. So for now, can we just agree to slightly disagree?

I didn't get Galadriel's line about Frodo beginning to understand that the quest will claim his life, either. I thought he fully understood that back on the riverbank when he decided to go on alone..... :confused:

Oh, and about the lie: It just was unnecessary to harm Frodo's integrity like that, I think. Also, if one of the first things Faramir hears from the 2 of them is a proven lie, why should he believe the pretty strange stuff he's being told later; although it is Sam who tells him the rest of their story.

I am really sorry for all those missing scenes from the hobbits' captivity with Faramir, scenes that we've seen pictures of and which aren't there. I'm certain all would have made more sense if they hadn't been cut.

OK, enough of that. :rolleyes:


Can I end instead with a scene that I really *loved*? The look on Frodo's face when Smeagol delivers the rabbits and afterwards is so pleased with himself and starts tearing at them with his teeth. Frodo has tears in his eyes, the way he looked moved me very much. I need to see that again to really make sense of it, but.... is it pity? Horror; - mixed with gratitude? Tears at the absurdity of it all? Tears at recognizing himself in this creature?

I loved the whole stewed rabbit scene, except for the fact that they didn't get to eat the stew.

You know, I really could go through scene after scene with F&S and just launch into babbling about how much I love it, how angsty or how beautiful etc..... That scene in the Marshes when the nazgul is flying over for instance...........

I am really, really craving screencaps!! How long did it take last time around before more pics from the film started appearing?

Don't tell me we have to wait till the DVD comes out!? :eek:

I still feel I am not fit to comment on the film too much. Once is simply not enough. I shall see it again on Sunday, and maybe then things will have solidified for me, somewhat.

I'm feeling a certain amount of discontent with the film, though I definitely enjoyed it. I haven't been able to put my finger on why this is, and I'm trying to reserve judgement until I have seen it at least one more time. There are some parts that I like immensely! So, we'll see what tomorrow brings.

I agree with much that has been said about MovieFrodo vs BookFrodo. Elijah is brilliant, as always, but... I still felt a bit slighted by the end, like something essential had been left out. Having said that, though, there is a scene that keeps playing in the back of my mind: the scene outside the Black Gate, where Frodo starts to hurl himself headlong toward it, what? Three separate times? Only to be thwarted by Gollum, as a bizarre voice of common sense. You've gotta admire Frodo's pluck, there. At least, I do. Such determination! I'm hoping I find more like that to love about him on my second time through it.

Well, I have way too much to do today and can't afford the time to sit and think about this further, much as I would like to. I can't wait to see it again, though I think that I may never learn to love it as I did FOTR. And if TTT only remains a bridge (albeit a very scenic one) to get me to ROTK, that's okay. That final film I expect to love completely and painfully, and if this film gets me that much closer to it, I can wait. ;)

(** courtesy of Bob Dylan..)

Hi folks, I’m only back briefly – there’s just too much on my plate lately and haven’t had time to be posting anything coherent – not that this will be coherent either. (Well actually I did find time to vote in the thread on the enormously important issue of his hair! Hey, I have my priorities straight...)

I haven’t seen TTT and probably won’t for another week. It’s been impossible to avoid spoilers, and unfortunately, the more I hear about the changes to Frodo (and other characters as well) the worse it sounds to me. I’m actually quite reluctant to go see it. At the start of the production PJ was famously quoted as saying “Sure, it won’t the Lord of the Rings, but it could be a really cool movie.” I remember my heart sank when I first heard that comment years ago. My hopes were raised by the first movie, but it looks like PJ really wasn’t kidding about the first part of that statement.
Relevant to which, has anyone read the article on Viggo in the Dec issue of Premiere mag (US)? There’s an interesting bit where PJ is quoted commenting on the characters of the human heroes in a way that Viggo completely disagrees with (and that shows amazing misunderstanding, or at least oversimplification, of the book characters on PJ’s part) I don’t have that exact quote here but it was unsettling.
I mention the Viggo quote because it’s struck me that perhaps it’s just as well for EW (if not for us) that he never read the whole book – there seem to be such contradictions between book and script, that it would have been too much to deal with for him to try to reconcile the two or try to fit it all in to his performance. (I get the impression that other actors who were more book-informed had more of a tussle with the writers to keep the characters true to the book, e.g. Viggo, McKellen, particularly Sean Astin – Astin has been pretty open about the fact that he and PJ had a different conception of the character of Sam. Inasmuch as movie Sam is like book Sam, I think we have Mr. Astin to thank for that) I wonder, though, if EW is aware of the extent of the differences between book and movie Frodo, how significant he thinks they, etc. I don’t think I’ve read anything specific about this other than him acknowledging that the movie is different from the book. I think he once commented that PJ’s direction, vis-à-vis character, was “pretty simplistic.” (Come to think of it, EW has more filmmaking experience than PJ! At least he's acted in more films than PJ has made) I’m afraid EW’s too much of a gentleman to ever voice any serious differences. That’s to his credit, I guess.
I’ll always admire PJ for his achievement, but it bothers me greatly that this movie will promote a distorted perception of the book and its characters.

Speaking of Astin, I also saw him on Leno – wow does he look GREAT!! He looks ten years younger without all that weight. What a charming articulate guy. He really put Leno in his place about EW – he was quite emphatic about the bringing-girls-home issue, I think his exact words were “ Elijah does ok with the ladies …. He finds a way.” Hehe…
(BTW, that Caroline Rhea show EW was on, will be repeated on the Family Channel (US) Wed 25 at midnight - any fellow insomniacs out there?)

Great news about the role in “Eternal Sunshine” – although it does mean I have to sit through a Jim Carrey movie, aaaarghhh – I guess there’s a price to pay for everything.

Cheers everyone –take care and have a Happy New Year. I wish I could hope that it’s going to be a peaceful one, but it’s looks like we’re headed toward war… God help those poor people in Iraq. Strange how these films follow on the heels of misfortume – first 9/11, now this new conflict…

“Sure, it won’t the Lord of the Rings, but it could be a really cool movie.”

Um ... just wanted to point out that PJ's comment referred to the idea of doing a spoof documentary about the MAKING of the LOTR, using Gimli and Legolas as extras from Valinor (they are brought back from the Undying Lands to help PJ with the project. ;) )

WildGoose! Welcome back!!





TTT MOVIE TALK TILL END OF POST




Originally posted by Maeglian
The problem is that emotions and sentiments and characterisations that IMO could and should have been shown by *this* version of Frodo really aren't. Or at least I'm not able to see it as clearly as you yet. <snip> So for now, can we just agree to slightly disagree?

{{Maeg}} Of course! :) I just felt the need to list out my points so that I knew I wasn't being wishful or delusional - I saw a brave, determined Frodo, who would have gone on ahead alone through the Black Gate (and wouldn't have judged Sam if Sam chose not to be with him), who understood just exactly what was at stake and how vulnerable his own position was, and who knew, in a terrible sad way, that he was so very alone. But then there'll be little moments of pure hobbitness: to just suddenly start asking about food mere moments after the Eye gave him the heart attack, the way Frodo & Sam are able to quietly push aside the horror of what happened in Osgiliath and find a way to smile again (mirroring Pip & Merry's post-orc trauma in the book).

Or maybe I'm just easily happy. Sigh. TTT didn't have the magic that FotR gave me either (*HUGS Ariel*) and I don't feel that intense affection for it that I feel for FotR, but I can watch this a few times more. I'm very fond of Aragorn, and those most beautiful angsty shots of Frodo ever have to be seen on the big screen as often as possible. so okay ... I'm shallow :p

But don't get me wrong. Sam's speech will drive me up the wall soon enough! Still, better than Frodo doing a stomach-churning Saving Private Ryan style soliloquy. So I appreciate PJ sparing us that, at least. (well, yes, I am cynically suspecting somebody made PJ & co add that in ... )


I didn't get Galadriel's line about Frodo beginning to understand that the quest will claim his life, either. I thought he fully understood that back on the riverbank when he decided to go on alone..... :confused:

Even if Frodo understood it then, he's only really beginning to understand the 'how' of it now. It's always one thing for someone to say he'll die for what he loves, and another thing when he takes the first bullet, or is captured by the enemy.


Oh, and about the lie: It just was unnecessary to harm Frodo's integrity like that, I think.

I didn't see any harm done because Faramir knew Frodo was lying and Frodo knew Faramir knew and both of them knew why the lie was being told. It was a standard plot device. :p And again, it may be my wishful thinking, but I imagine that annoyed though Faramir must be, he would respect Frodo for refusing to snitch.


I loved the whole stewed rabbit scene, except for the fact that they didn't get to eat the stew.

I know! :(

That's a concise description, Maeg, of Frodo's emotions there. I also liked the way he was just propped there, asleep - an image right out of the book. I was blown away by how effectively Elijah played the scenes in that sequence without a single word of dialogue until it was finally necessary for Frodo to speak. And I loved how Frodo said, "We have lingered here long enough" (paraphrasing) and his very firm, "Come on, Sam".


END MOVIE TALK



edit to add: finally found a site that has pics of Elijah on Leno:

http://www.elijahhobbit2002.com/leno121602.html

There's also an interview at ign.com. He talks about his computer games :) :

http://filmforce.ign.com/articles/380/380503p1.html

Hi, Faculty. I can't leave you guys alone for more than a day without getting almost too far behind to comment anymore.

I've only seen The Movie once so far (next viewing Monday) so my impressions are still confused. I've never experienced a movie that rushed by so fast so full of details I just know I missed. I'm so spoiled by rewind and slo-mo now, and PJ really seemed to be determined to stuff a lot of - well, stuff into his allotted TTT time limit. I do mourn the exclusion of a few book things, and am still working out how I feel about the inclusion of a few PJ things. All in all, it really helps to read all the thoughtful and insightful comments of the Faculty to help sort out my overall impressions just before seeing it again. Thank you for being here, Faculty, and for being you!

A special thanks to tgshaw, who pointed out that Orlando Bloom was the only other possible actor who could have put across all those fleeting and moving expressions that Elijah pulls off in some of his scenes. I completely agree, of course. He still knocks my socks off with what he did for Legolas in his first real acting challenge.

However, Elijah makes this Movie work. Period. Complaints or not, he gives us so much with his performance that The Movie is worth seeing just for his scenes. I was so completely won over by his angry Fro moments - and as I was reading your post, tg, this occurred to me: Thank our lucky stars that PJ didn't feel the need to CGI any of Frodo's "losing it" moments! (a la Nuclear Galadrial or Puppet Bilbo) Elijah was fully capable of pulling off the acting necessary without any help from CGI, and we were gifted with incredible instants of his "ring insanity". I hope this continues, but we'll see just how far gone PJ wants to show Frodo in RoTK. At any rate, we've got TTT, and Elijah has offered us more fabulous moments to analyze when we have settled into this Movie the way we finally settled into the first.

Ariel, dearest, I can certainly feel your frustration. We all wanted to love this movie so much. I'm so sorry you don't. I will have to go back and read your reviews to see whether there is a movie here that you will appreciate on some level, but if you never find it as fulfilling as you had hoped, you will not be alone.

The first Movie took me by storm - no doubts whatsoever - and I was able to love it even tho it is not book canon. There was just so much of the book threaded into it that one didn't even get at first (chapter names in character's dialog, etc.) that it was one long homage to The Book nevertheless. I haven't found that here yet, altho I'm willing to give it as many chances as necessary to find what I need in it. I did love it as a movie. So I'll just begin there, and keep looking for my book in it, with the help of KD posters over the next few months. I hope you will come to find some kind of satisfaction in it as well. But either way, we luv you! :k

I took interest in Maeglian's observations of the newbie's reactions to Frodo, and that they saw him as the strong hero of the piece. I will never be that innocent again - to see it all thru the eyes of a newbie. Book Frodo is just so darn good - maybe it doesn't all translate well to film, as the story seems to be taking off so fast now, and one can take one's time with a book. But I still agree with the comments of Alexan, that is seems like PJ could have stayed a little truer to the book without sacrificing a really wonderful movie. *sigh*

BTW, I also saw Sean Astin on Leno, and I cheered when he put Leno in his place about Lij "living with his mom". Leno needs to broaden his horizons a little, if you ask me. For Eru's sake, he thought Orlando was one of the short hobbits. Sean wasn't kidding around, either - he really let Jay have it, in as nice a way as he could. A fraction of what I would have liked to say to him, myself! I wish these damn talk show hosts would come up with some new questions before our boys lose all interest in appearing on them and answering anything! Geez!

So nice to be back with you Faculty members. You are all tops in my book! :D

Hi, Carly! And WildGoose, good to see you again! :)

Ainon, you jewel among Facultiers and KD'ers!!!! :k I have really, really wanted to see pictures from that Leno show; - your link provided heaps of them, including pictures *and* an animated gif of the tattoo-showing!! Great stuff! (I have never really had any need to bemoan a lack of talkshows airing here before, but that one I sure would have liked to see. Although, I pity those poor animals. They must have been scared out of their minds, with all the overwhelming smells and lights and people and noise.)

From Ariel
Both have faults, but I was PASSIONATE about FOTR - and I am just not that way about TTT. It just hasn't grabbed me like the first one did. Ariel: That's exactly it! I'm going to see the film for the 3rd time soon, I have the tickets, but my main motivation is not: "I *have* to see this, again and again, it's so incredible, it's so wonderful!! It's beautiful!!". The motivation is to capture every single Frodo scene such as they are in my mind, *and* to make absolutely, absolutely sure there isn't anything there that can help me change my mind; - some microexpression of determination, inner light and courage that will make me see Frodo's portrayal differently all of a sudden.


On to something completely different:

In the middle of all the TTT goings-on, I have also had the opportunity to watch that episode of Homicide Life on the Streets where Elijah guest stars. Now, why didin't they allow far more time for the guest star to appear instead of focusing on the detectives' various difficulties in life? :D Seriously though, it was great to see his performance as a sly, manipulative, smirking and silently gloating good-looking young man, - especially as a contrast to the tormented, possessed and worn down version of him currently on the big screen. (And I liked that hairstyle so much better than the current one :o )

Elijah could really play a "seriously bad guy", in the "intelligent manipulative psychopath" sense (as opposed to the thug-in-the-alley). Exactly because he doesn't overplay the expressions and reactions, that tiny evil smirk, those small signs of extreme self-confidence, works all the more effectively and scarily.

I've pretty much been staying away from commenting in the Community Cafe threads, and have been keeping my TTT discussion solely in the Trilogy, where alternate viewpoints are expected. What I am finding interesting is that those who didn't like the movie feel they are in the minority - and yet those of us who did like it, may I say loved it, also feel we are in the minority. Certainly in the Faculty the majority who have posted have serious reservations - it's one of the reasons I haven't made my views known here. I certainly acknowledge (and have acknowledged elsewhere) that everyone has the absolute right to their own opinion and reaction, and that mine is no more legitimate than anyone else's. And yet I feel very much like Ariel, though from the other side of the fence - that my opinions are unwelcome because they are positive. In several months time, when all our emotions are less raw, it would be interesting to look back and try to understand this whole phenomenom, where both those who liked and didn't like the movie feel they are in the minority.

Anyone who is interested in what I think can see the long version of what I think in the Trilogy threads (and even there I'm waiting for emotions to calm down a little before I go into more detail). I just wanted to say that I did see the Frodo I know and love in TTT the movie - I saw his leadership, his determination, his courage, the growing burden of the ring, and his resistance to its power. I'm not going to go into any more detail right now, because I certainly don't want to make anyone feel that I am invalidating their response by having a different opinion on the success of the portrayal of movie Frodo. But when things have settled down a little I do look forward to many months ahead of sharing opinions and viewpoints!

There is no 'persecuted minority' here. :cool:

I speak as a hardened veteran of TORC, where I post as Diamond of Long Cleeve. Posters often divide themselves into two opposing camps, Purist and Revisionist, and many of them give each other hell over their attitude to the film. :eek: One thing I appreciated about CoE was that they did NOT tolerate this kind of crap, and I know our lovely KD mods have a dim view of that immature level of so-called debate too.

It is very, VERY important that those who are unhappy about Frodo's portrayal in the film are allowed to say so. I happen to be one of them. I am not bitter, just sad. :(

It is equally important that those like Narya who found her Frodo in the film are allowed to say so. I am glad that you did, Narya. :)

Everyone's opinions are both valid and welcome ... we all know this ... :)

Emotions have been running high on all the websites since we all saw TTT. :p It certainly seems to have generated some very strong emotions. :D

(((Faculty)))

Narya; I am one of those who despite honest wishes to see all that you see in film Frodo is very disappointed in his portrayal. Which makes me all the more *interested* to hear your POV! Just like it's been great to read ainon's posts and views about film Frodo.

I *want* to make sense of film Frodo's portrayal, I want to accept and understand and even like and admire it. I have read your posts in the Trilogy and I will be looking forward to reading your opinions and further details of what it is you see that I don't ....... The same of course goes for anyone else with a more positive view. :)

Otherwise: What Pearl said. :)

There've been some posts added while I was writing the following rambling account of why I'm not saying anything :rolleyes: . I have to leave now, but will be back to possibly find something to say in regard to them.

In this thread, I've been sticking with EJW comments regarding TTT, because I don't have a solid opinion on the movie itself yet. Maybe I'm spending time in the "wait and see" mode because the first several times I saw FotR it did have that "homework" feeling for me--I thought it was "okay for a movie" but was very disappointed in it. It certainly didn't take me by storm, or grab me by the throat, or make me fall in love with it immediately as it did some. The memory's a bit hazy, but I'd say it took me a good half-dozen viewings before the FotR movie took on a life of its own.

And I expected to like TTT less than FotR, partly because of the subject matter (more time spent on battles, etc.) and partly because PJ had made it pretty clear all along that it would be the movie that most deviated from the book. Some people at work have asked me which one I thought was better, and I've told them that, basically, people who prefer drama will like the first one better and those who prefer action movies will probably like the second one better (this is to people who haven't read the book, so deviation from that isn't really an issue for them).

So, I hope to give TTT the benefit of the doubt for at least as many viewings as I did FotR--I've seen TTT twice, am committed to seeing it with friends next weekend, and will probably see it once in-between, so by New Year's I'll see what it gives me after at least four opportunities. In the meantime, I'm doing what helped me the most with FotR, which is "hanging out" in the Little Things I Liked thread (in the Trilogy) because that's where I started putting together the "Oh, that's what's going on there," realizations that helped me come to terms with FotR--giving me more understanding what was happening on-screen when it wasn't what happened in the book.

There are aspects of the FotR movie that I'll always be disappointed with, and I'm sure there will be at least as many parts of the TTT movie that I'll always be disappointed with. But I'm hoping that I'll also find some of those moments that I look forward to seeing again, which is what I've found in FotR (and the DVD is so great for that, because I don't have to sit through the wizard duel to reach the scene at the ferry, for example). I'll never consdier TTT the second (or third) best movie ever made, but then I never considered FotR the best movie ever made--it's a good movie, and has gotten a lot of people to read the book, which IMHO is the best fiction ever written. I do have FotR at the top of my list of Elijah's movies, where I think it belongs. If I were to rank TTT now, I'd probably put it at #4, following FotR, The War, and The Ice Storm. But I've posted a note on that page saying I'm waiting a bit before I decide where to rank it.

I'll never declare my complete and undying admiration for TTT, but I've never done so for FotR (in case anyone hasn't noticed :p ). They've been excellent trailers for the book, which, starting a couple of years before FotR was released, I've said would be their most important purpose. (In a way, even better if we can say truthfully, "You won't really know the characters/understand the themes/see how intricate the plot is/[add whatever the person liked best about the movies] unless you read the book.") And it seems to be working.

--Oh, yes, as an important secondary purpose they'll also hopefully keep Elijah from ever having to stoop to making another movie like TT&T :eek: .

This has been an awfully long post for saying I probably won't ever come here and give my "definitive" view of TTT, since I haven't done so with FotR. One difference I see between my reactions to the two is that most of what disappointed me in FotR was alterations of scenes from the book, while with TTT I'm more unhappy about how much time is wasted on things that aren't in the book at all but have been invented out of whole cloth. In FotR, I could see logical reasons for even the changes I completely disagreed with. In TTT, there are a few that have me completely baffled, unless it's just that the screenwriters thought they could come up with a better storyline than Tolkien's. Sorry to tell you, guys... :rolleyes:

------------------------

Nota--thanks for the report on Elijah's appearance where he corrected the mistakes about Sean's name and movie. Nice to know the care goes both ways. :)

------------------------

Back to movies with less riding on them:

I got an email from the person whose customer review at YesAsia I'd posted on my site for Chain of Fools. She got an advance copy of the video for Ash Wednesday, and has a review of it posted here: http://us.imdb.com/Details?0280438 . She also saw Ash Wednesday and Try Seventeen at their premiers (green-with-envy line starts here ;) ). She hasn't written a review for Try Seventeen, but said a friend of hers has one posted at AICN.

---------------------
ainon, it's really difficult to be sure, but I think we can exonerate Frodo from becoming a Ring junkie quite as early as Lothlorien. Here are a closeup and then a shot where Frodo is in the background, both from the scene you asked about. Then an attempt to get a better view of what's going on in the background--but I tried a couple of methods, both using my own screencap and using a scan of a photo someone had posted before the SE DVD came out, and couldn't get it any clearer than what's shown here. But, IMO, it looks as if Frodo is holding his hands together on or near his lap, so I don't think he's doing any Ring fondling. I went frame by frame during the time he's in the background and didn't see his hands move at all.

http://www.imagemagician.com/images/tgshaw/Fellowship/cap1366-850.jpg

http://www.imagemagician.com/images/tgshaw/Fellowship/cap1368-850.jpg

http://www.imagemagician.com/images/tgshaw/Fellowship/cap1368-8500.jpg

And a pic that seems to show the same thing from a different angle:

http://www.imagemagician.com/images/tgshaw/Fellowship/lotr_gal_320.jpg

Haven't been here for a couple of days, and have just caught up with all the differing opinions of TTT. Well, I suppose we knew it would be like this, with some of us very unhappy about how Frodo's character is portrayed. It's very strange, how some totally reject (at least on the first viewing) PJ's interpretation of Frodo in this film, while others appear perfectly happy. One aspect of the film at least that has drawn approval from everyone is Elijah's acting. Thanks, Carleenya, for being so enthusiastic about our boy's performance, and you so obviously a big Orlando fan. (I must confess to having a soft spot for that particular elf!)

Sad to say I haven't seen it yet!!! But hubby and I plan to go next weekend. I must say I'm going to be concentrating SO hard on catching every little nuance of Elijah's that I will probably miss out on the other parts of the story - WHAT'S THAT? Are you telling me there are other characters in the film besides Frodo, Sam Gollum and Faramir? Seriously I know there is not going to be nearly enough screen time for my two favourite hobbits, but that's to be expected, so I'll just have to pay total attention to every little detail during their scenes. After reading Tg's (and others) response to 'The Line', I can't wait to hear Elijah deliver those words myself. I am fraught with both anticipation and apprehension!!!

Thanks too, Tg, for those quotes of Sean Astin's on the Leno show. He seems like a really nice man, and a good friend to boot, speaking up for Elijah like that. He does appear to be very protective in a big-brotherly way towards EW, and that's lovely. I am also really pleased to hear from several of you that Elijah, during his own appearance on that show, appeared to voice geuine concern for the poor frightened monkeys.

All that said, I must reserve any judgement I might have on the film until next week, when I have witnessed the whole thing for myself. Until then:

Happy Christmas to The Faculty
http://www.imagemagician.com/images/blossom/SnowyFro5.JPG

and all at K.D.

I thought a snowy Fro pic would be apt, though the odds on us having a snowy CHristmas here in the UK are minimal. Oh well. Have a good time all.

I would just like to echo Wild Goose's sentiments over the impending situation with Iraq. It's a sad world we live in!

That's very, very nice Christmas Frodo, Blossom. Haven't gazed upon that in a long time. Thank you. :) Btw, how's your dog? (I'm sorry -- it's terrible of me but her name has just slipped my mind!)

Well, I suppose things will quiet down a little on the boards while most folks are off celebrating Christmas? It's a long holiday for most places, isn't it?


Originally posted by tgshaw
ainon, it's really difficult to be sure, but I think we can exonerate Frodo from becoming a Ring junkie quite as early as Lothlorien. Here are a closeup and then a shot where Frodo is in the background, both from the scene you asked about.

Thanks for looking into it, tg, but there's still one more moment a little later in the scene - IIRC it comes after the Aragorn-Gimli interlude ;) ... Sam (he's sitting down - maybe he's finished reciting his poem by then) fills the left side of the screen and Frodo is out-of-focus, to the right of the screen. One hand is in his lap. The other hand is raised - either holding the Ring/touching the chain/maybe just placed on his chest.

Not that I'm reading anything malicious there. He could be just playing with the chain that the Ring is on. At that point I think it'd be a fairly innocent and ordinary thing to do.



--------------



TTT MOVIE SPOILER AND GUSHING OVER ELIJAH'S ACTING


Elwen mentioned something in the CoE 'Little Things I Liked' thread which was just so wonderful I have to mention it here as well. At the Forbidden Pool, while Frodo is trying to coax Gollum to come to him, we can see Frodo's innocent face - a face we haven't seen since probably before Moria.

I thought that's an incredible observation. I'd noticed something familiar and yet 'different' in Frodo there, but had thought that it was a Froshadowing to look into. I'm in awe to realise now that it was a Froshadowing in a way -- to that young, sweet Frodo, but tired and resigned. Elijah's incredible. :)



END TTT SPOILER



------------------------




And glad to know you've managed to see Elijah's bad turn in 'Homicide', Maeg!

Hello:) TTT SPOILERS following:)







One of my (non-obsessive) friends just posted her TTT review on her livejournal. Among other things, she said this:

finally, frodo's eyes. please cease and desist screwing around with frodo's eyes. if elijah can't convey the emotions himself, get another freaking hobbit. I understand that it must have been difficult to bring the book to the screen, but this stuff was pretty ridiculous.

I'm not telling you who said this because I don't want you lot to hunt her down.:D I am prepared to defend Elijah's acting to the best of my ability.;) However, I also want to be prepared...which is why I came here first.:D

I've asked her for clarification, but I'm assuming that she thinks some of Frodo's eye expressions were computer-generated. I know people think his eyes were 'enhanced' or whatnot in FOTR, and I also know it's not true.;) I'm assuming that this is the same for TTT? I'm thinking of the shot where Elijah says "They're here..." and it looks like he's possessed. There's also the shot when he attacks Sam at Osgiliath...that is NOT Frodo who's attacking him!

But am I correct in assuming that Frodo's eyes are not being 'screwed around with,' and that we don't have any Bilbo-in-Rivendell stuff going on? That, if anything, Elijah's (apparently) too capable of 'conveying the emotions himself'?:D

((((Faculty))))





END SPOILERS

And here's a thanks-in-advance present...the scene anion was talking about.:) It's blurry but you can still see his hand pretty well.

http://image1ex.villagephotos.com/1463512.jpg

BEGIN TWO TOWERS STUFF (NO MAJOR SPOILERS)

Okay, I've seen it three times now (and going again in 4 hours). I have to say, that I am with Narya and ainon in the minority here, but I love this film, in fact, I am in complete and utter awe of it. To be honest, I wasn't expecting to like it as much as FOTR, but it far surpasses Fellowship to me, in it's depth of feeling, and in capturing a profound truth on film. If anyone is interested in reading my way out there philosophical love ramble on what I feel about the film, I wrote a commentary here:

Way Out There Philosophical Two Towers Ramble (http://frodoandsam.net/musings/commentaries/commentary009.html)

One specific Frodo comment I want to add is this: to me, Frodo feels very brave in this film, and more substantial that in FOTR. Even though the ring is already doing it's job, it feels to me like he has gained some sort of wisdom in the process, like he is taking more responsibility for what happens to him, rather than just being carried along by fate or the will of others. Maybe after some more viewings I will be able to back up this claim with more specifics, but right now it's still in the feeling stage. I love the Frodo in this film - he's very real, and made of some strong stuff.

And a couple of mental notes I wanted to get out... Did anyone else catch some Artful Dodger froshadowing moments? There were several times when I was reminded of this character - I liked it. Also, is anyone else completely in love with the moment where Frodo says "I did" to Gollum at the black gate, when Gollum is going on about how Frodo asked him to bring them there? Those two little words make me melt! :)

END TWO TOWERS STUFF

I spent some time yesterday encoding some more video clips, but of course there is server issues. I put some smaller snippets from recent E news and Extra segments on my video page, as well as a clip of Elijah's video hosting hour on MTV2. Did anyone else here see that? Very cool (wow, what great taste in music he has!). I took all of the moments he was onscreen and made a single clip out of it. I also have all of the talk show appearances, including Leno and C. Rhea, but the files are very big, and therefore aren't posted at the moment. Maybe next month I will be able to post them, or someone will offer up some server space. Anyway, what I have is here:

New TV Snippets and MTV2 Video Clips (http://frodoandsam.net/film/multimedia/video.html)

Originally posted by Bridget Chubb
But am I correct in assuming that Frodo's eyes are not being 'screwed around with,' and that we don't have any Bilbo-in-Rivendell stuff going on?

Bridget, I feel very confident saying that Elijah's eyes were NOT manipulated anywhere in TTT. I have read that he wears contacts to make his eyes less blue as they make their way to Mordor, but I would think that would be in ROTK, post Cirith Ungol, when he is almost completely gone. I've seen the film three times now and have paid very close attention (who me? ;)) to Frodo every instant he is on screen, and Elijah's eyes have been right there in all their amazing glory the whole time.

Well, I'll be off soon to visit my family for a few days... in case I don't make it back before I leave, happy holidays to everyone! :D

Edit: Elve beat me on mentioning the contacts :p , but she seems sure that they weren't used in TTT.



Originally posted by Bridget Chubb
Hello:) TTT SPOILERS following:)





I've asked her for clarification, but I'm assuming that she thinks some of Frodo's eye expressions were computer-generated. I know people think his eyes were 'enhanced' or whatnot in FOTR, and I also know it's not true.;) I'm assuming that this is the same for TTT? I'm thinking of the shot where Elijah says "They're here..." and it looks like he's possessed. There's also the shot when he attacks Sam at Osgiliath...that is NOT Frodo who's attacking him!

But am I correct in assuming that Frodo's eyes are not being 'screwed around with,' and that we don't have any Bilbo-in-Rivendell stuff going on? That, if anything, Elijah's (apparently) too capable of 'conveying the emotions himself'?:D

((((Faculty))))





END SPOILERS


The only possibility I can think of for "alterations" is the clouded/darkened contact lenses we do know Elijah wore for some of the Mordor scenes to "unbrighten" his eyes. One person who saw the Cannes footage talked about a non-Frodo-like darkness in his eyes at the Cracks of Doom. I haven't heard about the lenses being used for "non-Frodo-like" moments in TTT, but it's possible. I haven't watched either of those shots with that in mind, so can't say anything specifically about them. The contacts would change the appearance of his eyes, but not what he does with them. No computerized stuff, I'm sure.

-----------

The early morning newscast I watch runs a one-minute entertainment news segment (syndicated from E!, I think). This morning's story was that Elijah has signed on for the Jim Carrey movie, so that seems like a done deal. But the best part of the story was that it wasn't announced that Jim Carrey is making this movie and so-and-so, so-and-so, and Elijah Wood will be in it. The lead sentence was (and I think I remember the exact words ;) ), "Coming off his recent success in The Lord of the Rings, Elijah Wood has made his next movie deal." And the clips shown during the piece were from TTT. The story didn't just mention Elijah--It was about him! Yes! :D :D

A bit of downside news--After several delays, I got a message from Amazon.com saying that they weren't able to get the video of Child in the Night from any of their suppliers and they'd canceled my order. Funny thing is, it's still listed on the site as a "special order" and is even being listed as part of a special offer with Bumblebee. I've emailed Amazon asking for clarification.

(((Elvellon)))) thank you. I read your ramblings, how wonderful! I want to feel like that too! It gives me hope.... I'm going for my 3rd viewing in a couple of hours, and I'll just let the film wash over me and hope I can feel what you feel, see what Narya and ainon sees. I hope so.

Small spoiler
*
*


I definitely thought I caught an Artful Dodger moment in the very last scene, where Frodo laughs a little and says that "What about Sam? He wouldn't have gotten far without Sam" line. Given which scene we're talking about, it's almost irreverent to see the Dodger there, but I think I did.


*
*
End small spoiler

And thank you so much Elve for the clips. :)

And I'll sure look for the "innocent face" at the forbidden pool, too.

And the "I did".

Bridget, from all I've read and all that is said in the commentaries and interviews, they never "enhanced" EJW's eyes in any way except that he wore contacts to make the eyes look cloudy in some scenes. So I'm with the rest of the replies you've gotten on this.

Blossom, thank you for that nice Christmas greeting. Since I may not have much, if any, computer time the next few days, I'd like to take the opportunity now to say to all in the Faculty and at KD who are about to celebrate Christmas:

I wish you all happy holidays and a peaceful and joyful celebration!

:) :) :)

Bridget, thanks! And to repay the favour ...




SPOILER PIC







spoiler space






http://www.theasc.com/magazine/dec02/two/images/image1.jpg







That's no enhancement, no. But it's not really Frodo anymore either. And for that we have to really, truly admire Elijah. :)


And yup - Dodger is the fellow who shows up when Frodo's feeling a happier. ;) We've seen him once before in LOTR: SE DVD, in the Green Dragon. Felt quite a bit of shock to spot Dodger then. But now it feels very comfortable to know that Dodger can still drop by and 'visit' in TTT. :D



END SPOILER



Elve --- I loves you to bits!!! I'll be reading your ramblings in a bit. Right now I'm downloading the MTV thingy. And you made your clips all in Quicktime! Thank you!! {{{Elve}}}



edit: well, apparently Ian McKellen is available to answer our queries ;)

From his E-book for 23rd December (http://www.mckellen.com/epost/lotr/l021223.htm)


Q: You know how Frodo's eyes are so big and bright? Is that done artificially? Oh...could you pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeze tell Elijah that he makes the most perfect Frodo ^_^ Thanks!!

A: I do know. They are entirely his own. Oh...I could yessssssssssssss ;-)!!


edit 2: just noticed tg's avatar. that most angstiest of all angstiest Frodos!

Originally posted by Ariel
Sam was the one who could not see the big picture, who wanted to go home… Frodo was ALWAYS the one who knew what he had to do, knew why he had to do it.

Ariel, I'm sorry it's not getting any better for you. I did know we wouldn't all like the films the same, and I'm sorry this one doesn't work for you. Personally, I'm on the verge of stating I like TTT better than FotR - FotR got my heart, but I think TTT has touched my soul - but I'm holding off on that pronouncement quite yet!!

But I was interested in this comment of yours, because I couldn't remember Sam ever wanting to abandon the quest and go home. I agree that Frodo was always focused on the quest, the big picture if you will, while Sam was focused on assisting Frodo, but I just can't recall where he wanted to go home (as opposed to remembering and yearning for home, which are two different things, IMHO).

"And after all, he had never had any real hope in the affair from the beginning; but being a cheerful hobbit he had not needed hope, as long as depair could be postponed. Now they were come to the bitter end. But he had stuck to his master all the way; that was what he had chiefly come for, and he would still stick to him. His master would not go to Mordor alone, Sam would go with him -" (The Black Gate is Closed)

This isn't really a Sam thread, so if you want to PM me with where you saw Sam ready to go home, I'd really be interested in your POV on this. As it is just before Christmas, you may have other things to do than look up quotes - feel free to ignore my curiosity on this!

I've started work on my exposition on how I saw Frodo in TTT, and why it worked for me as closer-to-book-Frodo, but there is so much to do the next couple of days that it will likely be a few days after Christmas before I can get much done on it. In the meantime, Merry Christmas to all the wonderful ladies of the Faculty. May the wind be always at your back, and the road rise to meet your feet!

Elve, you're not in the minority. We're just a tad less vocal. I look forward to reading your ramble. (Once again, these people expect me to work while I'm at the office. :rolleyes: )

I am 100% certain that there is no enhancement to Elwood's eyes in the movie, save for making them cloudy in certain scenes. People just can't believe anyone has such remarkable eyes, and they can't find anything else to fault him with.

Oh, ainon, I simply love that scene. You can see a thousand different thoughts and emotions flicker across his face in that short time. :cool:

Happy Holidays, Faculty!:)

Elve, you are a goddess. To have all of Elijah's TV appearances gathered in one place is the best holiday gift imaginable! Even the hard-to-find Caroline Rhea show, which will be a real treat whenever you can get the time and computer juice to put it on your site.

Ariel, you too are a goddess for creating a fanfic site which I'm sure will be of interest to many Faculty members, as well as Haremites.;) :D

I can hardly wait to see TTT for the 4th time :p to look for 'innocent Fro' at the Forbidden Pool (I subconsciously knew his younger self was shining through here but it's nice to see it put into words), to study his eyes at Osgiliath, and to look for traces of the Artful Dodger.

As for my feelings about the movie: I love it more each time I see it. I was a little bit afraid that analyzing my reaction to it would tarnish the spell it cast, but so far that has not happened. Frodo seems wise, noble, brave and haunted this time around. As soon as the lights go down and the music begins, I am transported into Middle-earth and remain firmly rooted there until the lights go up again at the end. I actually cried the third time I saw it, where that had not happened the first two times. It really surprised me.

All of our non-obsessed friends who have seen it say they like Frodo in TTT, and that he seems very brave and just right to them. That makes me happy. It's very important that Elijah gets the praise that he deserves!

To everyone going away for the holidays, I wish you safe traveling.
To all the Faculty:
Happy Holidays!

As always, I have more to say than I have time for, and it's even worse right now due to the holidays.

Anyway, I saw TTT for the second time, and decided that I really like it. I think it will continue to grow on me over time, but I doubt that I'll ever love it as much as I love Fellowship. There was a magic to that one that this, in spite of its tremendous efforts, simply can't match. I don't think it's because it's not a good film. I think it is partly due to that "middle film" thing that I've hear people talk about, and partly due to the fact that I fell in love with PJ's Middle-earth and its characters already in FOTR, and there's just no way to duplicate that.




SOME SPOILERS WITHIN:




There are moments from TTT that I hold right up there with my favorites from FOTR, however. Both times, I wept with Theoden at Theodred's tomb. I find it to be a remarkable scene.

The affectionate jibes between Aragorn/Legolas/Gimli make me incredibly happy (although I felt that Gimli was the comic relief just a tad too much). And I'm not a Legolas gal, but -- he is incredibly beautiful and charming in this film! I predict that many more shall fall under his spell... ;)

I love IntenseMerry and CleverPippin (I can't wait to see this Merry give his allegiance to Theoden, and face down the Witch King). I was sorely disappointed not to get the reuniting of these parts of the Fellowship in this film, but it surely gives me something (else) to look forward to next time.

My heart even soared at the Battle of Helm's Deep, not when Gandalf appeared, but when Eomer rode up to his side, and then the Rohirrim followed him down the hill. Well done! I'm really looking forward to more Eomer in the next one.

Again, I was thrilled by Frodo's determination to hurl himself through the Black Gate. That whole scene sits just right with me.

I'm still searching for more to like about Frodo in this film, and though I can't put my finger on anything specific, yet, I think I managed more of that this time around. Just a general feeling of strength and determination from him, or something.

And in spite of my trepidation at having Frodo attack Sam, watching him come back to himself little by little is an incredible, amazing treat. I am so glad they let the camera linger for so long. I am awed by EW's skill once again, that you can actually see Frodo return in his eyes and face... I could watch that over and over.

and his delivery of "They're here... they've come..." is completely shiver-inducing. :cool:





END SPOILERS


I could probably go on, but no one needs to be subjected to that. Oddly enough, I don't feel inspired to debate about parts of this movie, the way I did with FOTR. I needed to talk about that one. This one... maybe I'm still just not ready yet. I want to settle in with it a bit more, grow more comfortable with it, and even learn to love more of it, before I commit to any kind of debate. I think I feel that my hold on liking it is still a bit tenuous, and I don't want to accidentally be persuaded to not like it. :eek: :D Well, it's not that bad, but truly, I somehow don't want any outside influences on my thoughts about it, just yet, for whatever reason.



BRIDGET!! Thank you for that cap from Lothlorien! I thought I had seen Frodo's hand there when I watched it a couple of nights ago, but when tg's pics didn't show it, I thought I was imagining it. Verrry in-teresting.

And I agree that Elwood's eyes are his alone. Even his pocket digital-enhancer can't change the way he uses those beautiful blues. :p

Elve, thanks for all the lovely clips, as always. You make my hard drive happy!:D :k


And, as my time here will become even scarcer over the next several days, I'll put in my Happy Holidays, Merry Christmas, and Happy New Year now! Otherwise, I might miss it entirely.

{{{{{{{{{{{The Faculty}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

Well, let me just boldly drop in here... it was ainon who sort of helped me to make up my mind.... :)

I have been meaning to drop in here for a while.

The reason?

Well, I am an avowed Sam fan and Faramite, but in this movie for some reason I really foucsed on Frodo (and Aragorn, on the western side, but that's another issue).

I have to admit that though I believed people who said that EW was a good actor I always thought that FoTR really didn't give him a lot to do with his gift (yes, there are some AMAZING scenes, bus still...)

I have now been fully convinced. I find this Frodo interesting and fascinating (even if he goes into RoTK (or post-CU) mode a little early....


There is so much good acting there. Yes, Sam gets many of the showy lines (and I am chuffed about that) but the really amazing emotion is visible in Frodo.

EW is convincing in his agony, but I suppose that could still be seen as one particular actring technique (though i see it as more) - but there is so much more. His grief, and exasperation, especially with Sam. His suspiciously-tender approach to Smeagol. His graceful and quite powerful decision to offer mercy to Gollum.

And yes, there is that scene where he is trying to convice Gollum that ainon mentioned above. I was shocked absolutley shocked to see this sudden trace of his old innocent self in his eyes. The sort of look he has about himself when he says 'what must I do' or perhaps even when he looks at Gandalf saying 'Hobbits really are amazing' back in Bag end (I was lucky to see FotR and TTT in a double bill the first time round :) ).

Here it is again, that boyish look that (miraculously) 18/21 year old Mr Wood seems to have lost somewhere on the way through Emyn Muil :eek:

And the saddest thing is that there is no innocence behind the look this time. This si someone doing his best under the worst of conditions. heart breaking :eek:

So, there you go, a newly won admirer of Elijah Wood's acting calling in. :)

Elwen

Hi everyone! Hope you're all well :)

Not been in for a few days - so much to read! Will have to look at the older posts soon, maybe tomorrow to see what I've been missing - after I've done all the present wrapping! :D

Was in London on Saturday with some KD and CoE folk (hello Ghyste, was lovely to meet you!) and we saw TT so that was my second time and I enjoyed it better than the first viewing, it was easier to take things in.

Can't wait to see it many more times :D

Interestingly enough I was round at my friends tonight (the one who hadn't seen FOTR until I lent her my copy which she enjoyed but had been disappointed at the ending). I said I'd seen the film twice now and she said, "Yes the new Lord of the Rings film looks pretty good" (this coming from someone who'd said she'd maybe see TT on video, not at the cinema) then she said "Those battle scenes look pretty amazing". So I reckon that it is maybe a little more appealing to people who've not read the book once they realise there's a big battle scene in it. :(

Bye for now, if I'm not back in before Wednesday - HOPE YOU ALL HAVE A WONDERFUL CHRISTMAS!!

((Faculty))

Yes, I *know* I should be doing other things than posting here just now, but after seeing the film for the 3rd time I had so much to comment on I've being leaving posts all over the place. :rolleyes:

It's a wonderful film, so filled with visual and emotional beauty *and* sorrow ....... Yet unfortunately, although the film is certainly growing on me, and there is very much that I love in it, I still cannot come to terms with certain significant aspects of Frodo's portrayal. :(


Goldenberry, "haunted" is a very fitting description of Frodo in TTT.
(Although in one particular scene "Zombie" would be an equally fitting description, I'm afraid.... :eek: )


I thought I should mention that Hobmom just posted many caps from the Frodo-in-Osgiliath scene over in the harem. Well worth checking out!! The new ones nicely compliment ainon's Ring-crazed Fro pic. However, I guess I should warn everyone of a slight danger of swooning.


Hi Elwen, and welcome! Thank you for the positive and interesting views on EJWs acting and portrayal of Frodo.

Hugs and hugs to all you dear Faculty friends!

My whole family of Tolkienites (I'm so lucky!) had very mixed reactions to TTT: depressed, sad and grieving with the characters, for Middle Earth, and for the lost intimacy of the Shire...

We all shared a second viewing, knowing what to expect, and came away BLOWN AWAY and loving TTT. PJ's overall story arc and rhythm became apparent once we were no longer trying to stay with Tolkien's fabulous language and detail, once we gave in to PJ's visual symbolism.

My very best Christmas present (in a season of magic and wonder), is, that on our second viewing, we all found the magic in TTT.

I am so eager to share discussions with you guys about lovely EW and the story arc and the theme of duality and death.

Just a thought that I hope the Faculty can help me ponder:

Tolkien wrote that Frodo's plight exemplifies the dilemma in the Lord's Prayer: "...lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil..."

Fellowship is about taking on the mission...TTT is, as Galadriel suggests, about Frodo recognizing the fact of temptation and understanding that he personally is subject to temptation...RotK may be about strong Frodo, having understood finally what the Ring does to him personally, being delivered from evil by grace...although he has to go West "to understand his place in greatness and in smallness." (paraphrase from JRRT letter)

May the magic, hope and wonder of the season be with each of you!

Oh Blossom! :) Would you mind terribly posting the SnowAngel over in the Harem? We could sure use him! :k

First and foremost, thank you, ainon, for that pic! Elijah was just beyond anything in that scene, and the only "eye enhancement" he had was eye liner. Of course someone who was not as familiar with his work would think he had "help". Elijah is just that good an actor, and his eyes really are unlike those of anyone else in the world. But as to saying he had CGI help, the only term that comes to my mind is Boromir's heart-felt "You FOOL!"

Elwin, glad you decided to give in to the excellence in craft that you saw in Elijah's performance. Even if one is in love elsewhere (you love a Steward, I love a Prince - not much difference really, except the title) - one has to admit that Frodo is so well portrayed by Elijah that there almost aren't words to convey the depth. He just is Frodo, that's all.

Goldenberry, you are not the first one to mention that their non-Tolkien friends found Frodo to be very brave in TTT, and that is a very encouraging thought! :D Those of us who know what he really went through (that would be all of us!) want him to be appreciated by the audience in PJ's version, which certainly did stray farther from the book more often in this film than the first. :(

BTW, Narya, I just finished reading the books again, and the only place I remember Sam vocally wanting to go home is after looking in Galadrial's mirror. And you have to admit that what he saw there was a sore trial for that loyal soul! Even so, on with Frodo he went!

I just returned from my second viewing. There will be more. I have decided that it is not possible to choose which Movie is best, simply because they are both so different. The story could not be told without either. IMO, PJ departed from the book more than he needed to in TTT, and added scenes that were more not needed in TTT, than he did in FoTR. But what he put together is still so thrilling and well done that I am still a rabid fan of this Movie. Do we not have a "Little Things I Liked" thread in KD? I don't want to go back to the nameless site, as I may be tempted to post, and I'm hanging onto my grudge :p - I'll go looking for one here when I'm done catching up.

I want to share some of my new 2nd viewing feelings, but I won't burden the Faculty with them. (did I hear applause?) I'll go to the appropriate thread soon.

Happy Holidays to all, and to all a Good Night!

Elwen!! {{{{{Elwen}}}} :k :k

Well, this is a pleasant surprise and a wonderful honour. Welcome to the Faculty, Elwen! Thanks for sharing your thoghts on Elijah - I'd read your review at CoE and was so touched by what you had to say. Just wanted to tell you that too. :) You'll be sticking around for the many, many discussions we'll be having, right? ;)

Maeg:
Yet unfortunately, although the film is certainly growing on me, and there is very much that I love in it, I still cannot come to terms with certain significant aspects of Frodo's portrayal.

{{{Maeg}}}

I am so impatient to discuss the movie ... almost everyone's seen it by now, right? (well, except estella rose down in Australia -- though the movie should be opening soon {{{ER}}} ).

I think what'll make the discussion very interesting is how each of us seem to see Frodo so differently. I'll be honest, when I came back from my second viewing, after having been away from the boards for a couple of days, I was almost ready to burst from the anticipation of discussing how incredibly well Frodo had been portrayed: how in this movie, there's no way in heck anyone could ever accuse him of anything less than noble bravery. Then I just about keeled over from shock when I read the so many negative impressions of Frodo! :o :p But now that I'm convinced I wasn't just seeing things that weren't there, I'm very curious to see what were the negative aspects that I missed.




SPOILER




Okay, I had one complaint when I came back from my first viewing: that Sam got Frodo's lines about going to Mordor. But then I thought about it and suddenly really, really liked it. Heartless FrodoAngst appreciator that I am ;) I love that moment in the book, and then of course his swooning and Faramir putting him to bed and what not. But at the back of my mind I never approved of Frodo's suddenly blurting out the whole purpose of his mission to a man who had just, mere minutes ago, come this close to re-enacting Boromir's lunge for the Ring. And (don't trout me for saying this, please!) for the past year I had been wondering how that scene could be played on screen without Frodo coming across as a damsel in distress, fainting at the slightest rise in tension. :rolleyes: :D

But when Sam said those lines, it absolved Frodo of the need to say them, and it gave Sam the chance to say what the audience is wondering: "Won't Faramir help Frodo?". So, well, I liked the way that all worked out.



END SPOILER



I keep wanting to blab some more about the movie (besides I've suddenly got unsupervised access to the computer here in the lab. I'm going nuts from all this freedom ;) ) but I'll restrain myself till everyone comes back from their holidays!


Nota -- "...lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil...". Oh, that is definitely something to ponder!




Last but not least, Andy Serkis has his own website up and running: www.serkis.com

Very high quality pics of Gollum there. Tiny glimpses of Frodo:

http://www.serkis.com/images/9986.jpg

http://www.serkis.com/images/9984.jpg

I don't know why, but I just loved how Frodo is so quiet through this scene, never saying anything, then just getting up to get the pans, being practical ...


And finally, that sad (and lovely - can I just say how much I love the way the wind blows at his hair and cloak here?) reminder to the more innocent Frodo:

http://www.serkis.com/images/9988.jpg


Merry Christmas! And warm tropical hugs from me to all of you. {{{{{Faculty}}}}}

Thanks for the welcome, ainon...
I am not near knowledgeable enough to fit into *this* faculty... :)

But I might lurk now and then. :)

Happy holidays to all! :)

Elwen

THIS ENTIRE POST IS A SPOILER



Originally posted by ainon
But at the back of my mind I never approved of Frodo's suddenly blurting out the whole purpose of his mission to a man who had just, mere minutes ago, come this close to re-enacting Boromir's lunge for the Ring.

You're right Ainon....there's almost no way that Frodo could have delivered the line about going to Mordor in the movie. But that's because of the way that the film portrayed the Frodo/Faramir relationship (or lack thereof). Book Faramir makes considerable efforts to gain Frodo's trust, reassuring him at least twice that he would not take the Ring even if he "found it on the highway." Film Faramir makes no such efforts. So that entire great moment, that great line, HAD to be given to Sam. Alas.

Oh and PS: Great pix of Frodo at the Forbidden Pool. It's funny, but when I saw that scene, I didn't think of Innocent Frodo at all...I was struck by the look of intensity and desperation in his eyes, even though he's smiling...the smile is Innocent Frodo, but the eyes are not, if you know what I mean. it's an incredible acting moment, IMHO!

(((((Elda))))) :k

There's a very interesting article at TORn about 'book Faramir' which basically compares all of Faramir's efforts to win Frodo's trust to techniques used by skilled interrogators. First, frighten and bully the target, then pull a switcheroo and extend the hand of friendship. Disarm your victim by pretending to be on their side and then, when their defenses are down somewhat and they are in a further weakened position, come in for the 'kill'.

The basic point was that, up until the moment when Faramir relents and sets Frodo free, Frodo is his prisoner and they both know it. Faramir may be more courteous than most captors, but he fully intends to either kill Frodo and Sam or send them to his father. In other words, just like movie Faramir.

Wait a minute...was that Cion I saw here?:D

(((Cion))) (((Elda)))

Originally posted by ainon
Elwen!! {{{{{Elwen}}}}

And another {{{Elwen}}}! If you knew how much lurking I've done in the Geek threads (original and II) with nothing to add... :o ! Welcome!


SPOILER




But when Sam said those lines, it absolved Frodo of the need to say them, and it gave Sam the chance to say what the audience is wondering: "Won't Faramir help Frodo?". So, well, I liked the way that all worked out.



END SPOILER

Still SPOILERS






Thought it was interesting that Sam is "absolved" on two occasions: Faramir learns about the Ring from Gollum, not from Sam blurting it out. Gollum's victory over Smeagol is shown as related only to Frodo's "betrayal" at the Forbidden Pool, not to Sam's name-calling (although we do hear a bit of the name-calling). PJ does seem to like to give Frodo a bit more of a "guilt" burden along the way, starting with the decision to go into Moria becoming his instead of Gandalf's.






End Spoilers



Nota -- "...lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil...". Oh, that is definitely something to ponder!
To add a dimension to the "pondering" -- IIRC, JRRT's main point is that those are two different requests, which is especially pertinent when considering Frodo and the Ring. For anyone who has Shippey's recent book around, he goes into this quite a bit in his chapter on evil (IMVVHO not being quite as upfront as he could have been that the thought's originally from Tolkien's letters--haven't read Shippey's chapter in awhile, so I may be mis-remembering this, but that's how it struck me).

--------------------

Yesterday was my last day of work before Christmas, so I was planning to head for viewing #3 afterward. But halfway through the day it was obvious I was getting a nasty cold, so I went home to bed instead, hoping to stop it before it turned into something worse--which, for me, is often bronchitis if I'm not careful. (Besides, I know I wouldn't have wanted to sit next to my coughing and nose-blowing for three hours! :eek: ) So I probably won't be picking up any new observations until next weekend.

But next Sunday or Monday we'll be having what I guess you could call an Omaha mini-moot (very mini :p ). Hellga and I both live here--although on opposite sides of the city--and Bridget is coming to visit relatives and will tear herself away one day so we can get together. Guess I can't really call it a Faculty Meeting, since I don't think Hellga has ever been inside these hallowed halls (but, then, I've never spent much time in her trivia thread in the Green Dragon--scares me to death!! :eek: ). Besides getting to meet another KDer (Hellga and I have met), it should lead to some interesting talk on the movie, since I think each of us comes from a somewhat different point-of-view on it.

BTW, I sent my VHS copy of FotR home for the holidays with a co-worker who wanted to watch it and doesn't have a DVD player. I made sure to tell her about my "history" with Elijah (from Huck Finn on), so hopefully she'll be paying attention to him :) .


Edit: Goldie, interesting slant on book-Faramir!

Well, its midday, hotting up (a sunny Christmas- usually its overcast) and I've finished my cooking . Time to gather children, food and gifts and roll on to the parental units house.

Ainon: I'm not sure if muslims celebrate christmas- hope you have some sort of a break and time to spend with family and friends. :)

the movie: haven't seen it again but liked all the hobbity parts. Actually there was more of these than I expected from all the spoilers. Must go again before I can comment intelligently on EW but my first gut instinct is he did a very good job. No surprises there. Puzzled by Osgiliath.

love to all, happy hols...

Prim

This came up at TORn. Clearly a quote stolen from another interview, but it's amusing enough. ;)


//img-www.theonering.net/images/scrapbook/5748.jpg





Spoiler



{{{{elda}}}} It's just that even in the book I always saw Faramir as being a threat to Frodo. Faramir says he won't take it, but that doesn't mean Frodo should trust Faramir to mean it. Frodo shouldn't be trusting anyone at all, in fact (with the exception of Sam, of course, and Gollum is strictly a guide - he's not told anything). That's how I always felt about it, that's all, angsty potential aside. ;)

My sincerest apologies to all Faramites I might have accidentally offended! :k



And you're right, tg. Sam is absolved as well. What I'm thinking of is the Director/Writers' Commentary for FotR, where PJ explained the changes that were made in the Prancing Pony - how instead of Frodo singing and dancing and then accidentally slipping on the Ring, it became a combination of Pippin's carelessness and the Ring's will that resulted in the Ring slipping onto Frodo's finger. In other words, making it so that it wasn't Frodo's fault and sparing the need to make him look silly. :D


End spoiler



{{Cadmo}} How're the kids? I had my Eid celebration earlier this month, but we do get a holiday for Christmas today. And last night was TTT viewing #3 for me. :)

Hope you're feeling better today, tg, and any opportunity to meet up with fellow KD-ers is always wonderful! I went to the LOTR movie marathon last Friday with a fellow CoE-er (she's a Legolass, alas ;) now, Carly, put down that trout ... ) and that was the best fun I'd had ever as a LOTR fan.

Originally posted by ainon
{{{{elda}}}} It's just that even in the book I always saw Faramir as being a threat to Frodo. Faramir says he won't take it, but that doesn't mean Frodo should trust Faramir to mean it. Frodo shouldn't be trusting anyone at all, in fact (with the exception of Sam, of course, and Gollum is strictly a guide - he's not told anything). That's how I always felt about it, that's all, angsty potential aside. ;)

My sincerest apologies to all Faramites I might have accidentally offended! :k
Goldie put the link to that article she mentioned at TORN over in the Faramite's thread--I read it, as well as the reply (which I thought took too many things for granted), and am pretty convinced by it. It seems to fit in perfectly with how Tolkien wrote those scenes, specifically his switching back and forth between Frodo's and Sam's POVs. The "theory" doesn't make book-Faramir seem mean IMHO, just someone who's very good at his job.


And you're right, tg. Sam is absolved as well. What I'm thinking of is the Director/Writers' Commentary for FotR, where PJ explained the changes that were made in the Prancing Pony - how instead of Frodo singing and dancing and then accidentally slipping on the Ring, it became a combination of Pippin's carelessness and the Ring's will that resulted in the Ring slipping onto Frodo's finger. In other words, making it so that it wasn't Frodo's fault and sparing the need to make him look silly. :D
Would you believe the only commentary I've listened to is the actors'? :o I'm too fond of just watching the movie, I guess. But just wanted to point out that it's mostly Pippin's fault (and the Ring's) in the book, too. The reason poor Frodo gets up on that table in the first place is to draw attention away from Pippin who's just about to talk about how Bilbo Baggins disappeared at the Party. (In the book, Merry and Pippin have even been told by Frodo not to mention the name Baggins.)

Will be off to my mom's for a few days, so tried to leave a Frodo with some "light shining through him." Happy holidays to all. :) In the meantime, here's the Frodo-related part of what I just posted in the TTT review thread:


TTT MOVIE SPOILERS FROM HERE TO END OF POST!









But what I've found so far regarding Frodo's characterization is that if I pick up with movie-Frodo where we left him a year ago, the characterization seems about right. Where he falls short, of course, is in being compared to book-Frodo.

But I don't think he falls quite as short as some do. I don't know if there's any sense in listing examples, but there's the "heart attack" towards the beginning, after which all he tells Sam is that the Ring's "getting heavier." The taming of Smeagol and coming up with the idea of using him as a guide to get out of the Emyn Muil. The Black Gate which, except for Sam's fall and "Frodo's Magical Cloak of Invisibility" (which still has me shaking my head), has Frodo's determination almost word-for-word from the book. During their time with Faramir, Sam does raise his voice a few times, but he does in the book, too, and it doesn't help Faramir think any better of him. Just as in the book, Faramir in the movie knows right away that Frodo's the "leader" of this little group. Frodo makes the same heartbreaking decision at the Forbidden Pool--but in the movie it carries even more weight, because it's shown as the only reason Gollum decides to betray them, instead of being paired with Sam's verbal attack on him.

The few newbies I've heard from on the subject are very aware that Frodo's the main hero, and feel he shows enough determination all along that when the Ring does overpower him he's obviously dealing with an unstoppable force. And as has been said, the Ring's shown as much more powerful in the movie than it is in the book--that decision seems to have been made early on, because it's affected the part the Ring plays throughout both movies. It makes not only Men more susceptible to it, but Hobbits as well.

Even back in the Shire (in the movie), Frodo would have put on the Ring if Sam hadn't physically stopped him (in the book, the arrival of Gildor & Company gets rid of the Black Rider)--so, in a way, I see the scene with the Nazgul in Osgiliath as a tremendously heightened version of what happened under the tree roots in the Shire. But the Ring has grown stronger, and IMHO this scene shows just how much stronger. But even with its increased power, the Ring doesn't completely overcome Frodo even in Osgiliath. As I said in a different thread, if Frodo had been completely dominated by the Ring, Sam would be dead and the Ring would be on Frodo's finger (for one brief moment before it was "claimed"). There was still enough of Frodo's free will able to act that the swordpoint stopped at Sam's throat, even though Sam was an obstacle to the Ring's will. I don't know how this will play out in RotK, but at the end of TTT IMHO we're not in the situation we have at the Cracks of Doom where Frodo's will is completely overpowered by that of the Ring. Another thing to keep in mind is that, if we overlay the movie and the book, the event in Osgiliath is taking place only hours before CU. In another thread I posed the question, "If Frodo had had a sword in the tower, would he have drawn it on Sam at the time he called him a thief?" There are different opinions on that, of course, but if he would have done it there I don't think it's unreasonable to think he might have done it shortly berfore.

I strongly dislike Sam's "speech" (and I'll add Merry's to that, BTW). And it's very possible Frodo's "What are we holding onto?" was thrown in just to give an opening for it. But regardless of why they're there, I truly don't think Frodo's "I can't do this," and "What are we holding onto?" mean that he's giving up. The fact that he's saying the lines out loud--especially since they're directed at a specific person--says to me that he's looking for a response that will help to get him back on his feet. What he gets is Sam's speech, which-- :rolleyes: --well, if it works, it works, I guess. I don't think Frodo's lines there are any more despairing than some of book-Frodo's, although his are often disguised as humor. "There's no sense worrying about tomorrow. It'll probably never come," is what first springs to mind, but that's a mild one compared to some others.

A belated welcome to Elwen, Elda, and Cunion (??sp-it's too late at night for me :o )

Prim and I have seen the movie once (so far ;) ) -it took two lattes and big plates of chips to even *begin* to analyse the film.


more viewings *definitely* required :D :D :D

one thing for sure though -EW's acting just blew me away. Book canon or not, he made the most amazing transition from carefree hobbit, to world weary etc etc. This guy is a *seriously* good actor....dare I say that he is an Ian McKellan in the making???


also loved the whole Helm's Deep battle (having been prepared to dislike it after learning that it was going to occupy over 20 minutes of the film) -absolutely fantastic,awsome, stunning....:eek: :D


more comments after the second, third, fourth...;) viewing(s)

viola

SPOILERS for TTT
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Just replying to Maeg's post first. ( :k Maeg)


Maeg:
If the Ring has such a strong corruptive presence and consciously active evil will in the Film, why then doesn't it affect film *Sam* at all?

He keeps his love and caring for his master, but in the film he also is the one seeing the big picture, keeping the ultimate goal in sight when Frodo stumbles and seems to be giving up. Sam doesn't give up hope, he is able to keep them going and even give a speech about their mission. Now, when Galadriel told Frodo no-one would find a way if he couldn't, and told him how "one by one it will destroy them all", I took that to mean that the Ring would impact all members of the Fellowship, and that Frodo would hold out longer before succumbing (filmverse-wise). This due to his pure soul being difficult for the Ring to corrupt, and his strenght of will founded in love for the Shire.

But in TTT, Frodo is now yielding completely to the Ring at the worst of times. I tried my absolute very best to see *any* sign of struggle of will, or mental resistance, while Frodo's standing there in front of the Nazgul in Osgiliath...... But what I'm seeing is some sort of agony, and then deep rapture and intense relief at finally giving up and giving in.

I don't think Frodo's 'home' right then, if you get my meaning. :( The Ring had taken him -- something he knew was going to happen and which he hadn't a chance to fight against. I guess I'm not ready to hold that against him. In my mind there a difference between 'yielding to the Ring' and being overcome by the Ring.

I am wondering though, Maeg - aren't you projecting the story too far forward? At this point in the story we don't know what happens at the end. Why are you trashing Frodo now, when technically you can't know that he ultimately 'fails'? Was his psychological triumph over the Ring's hold on him so meaningless? :(

Another thing I don't understand, I guess, is why Sam's speech seems to denote that Frodo has become an idiot. :confused: Frodo's question was rhetorical, IMO - Sam could have launched into a falsetto delivery of 'Tomorrow, Tomorrow' and Frodo would have started feeling better. :D Nonetheless Sam's speech does work (I grudgingly admit) to wrap up the movie. Except I wince each time Sam grabs Frodo under the arm and yanks him up just so he can say that line in Frodo's face. :p


So, if anyone can give an explanation why the film Ring doesn't in any way seem to be affecting the film version of Sam, when it has already this early almost destroyed Frodo, other than the (too?) obvious explanation that in the films Sam is stronger and purer of character, spirit and will than Frodo, I'd really, *really* appreciate it. Sam's love for and focus on Frodo protects him?? But then, shouldn't Frodo's love of the Shire protect *him*?

Now Maeg, I love you, but I could trout you. :) Where is the world are you seeing this: "Sam is stronger and purer of character, spirit and will than Frodo"? :confused: Sam is coming into his own as a character, yes, and he does earn Frodo's title of 'Samwise the Brave'. Sam's doing his job as Frodo's protector. Sam isn't competing with Frodo for heroism here. :) {{{Maeg}}}

But if we do get down to it, we know Frodo's love for the Shire doesn't protect him. In the end nothing protects him. :(

Anyway, for what it's worth, Frodo was not destroyed in TTT, was he? At the end of the movie he's almost back to feeling like his old hobbit self again. I don't know ... am I the only one who sees that as typical of the hobbity trait Tolkien ascribes to Merry & Pip after their orc trauma?


One explanation *might* be that the Ring wants to go to one of the Men (Like Galadriel mentions in her TTT cameo), and if that doesn't work out it'd rather stay with the almost-exhausted Frodo rather than Sam..... But that doesn't make sense to me. If not for Sam, the Ring would be back with its true Master now. So if the Ring does have a will and mind of its own, by the films' own logic it really should be working to corrupt Sam, too.

By film logic, no. Movie Ring selects who it wants. Why would the Ring want Sam? The Ring doesn't even want Frodo. It wanted to get away from Frodo but Frodo wouldn't let it have a go at Faramir. I won't mention Osgiliath because I suspect you might have a trout ready :p :D but right now, the Ring is not in favour of any hobbits, I reckon. Frodo's lasted through two movies - during which there were three lapses on Frodo's part and the temptations of three mortal men. Frodo still ain't cracking. So the Ring would logically very favourably prefer Gollum. Except Frodo sure isn't going to let that happen.

But in RotK, the Ring will have its shot at Sam anyway. The seed has been planted even: "Samwise the Brave" -- yep, I'll bet that's something Sam can imagine just fine ... :eek:




tg, LOL re: "Frodo's Magical Cloak of Invisibility". But I liked it. It served 3 purposes, I think: 1. Frodo saves Sam's life, 2. Frodo and Sam arrive smack down right in front of the Black Gate - how convenient is that?, 3. we see the people who're marching into Mordor - I don't know whether that's just a shout-out to book readers or whether it'll play into something in RotK.

And of course I like the way Frodo says, "I did" and the way he just looks at the Black Gate, speechless. And the very little thing that showed his awareness for Gollum: turning back to look at Gollum when the latter whimpered in fear.



END SPOILER



tg - hope you have a very Merry Christmas with your mom! Stay away from deer this time! :)

Viola - ditto about Helm's Deep. I am so going to swoon for Richard Taylor and co when the TTT DVD comes out and they get a chance to tell their stories.

ainon, I guess it's just my bad luck that I removed my post, and in the meantime you managed to quote most of it. (I hoped no-one had read it! :o )


Very mild spoilers in all the following:
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Oh well, now that it's been quoted I'll stand by my words. The post was based on the following quote of tg's: The Ring's shown as much more powerful in the movie than it is in the book--that decision seems to have been made early on, because it's affected the part the Ring plays throughout both movies. It makes not only Men more susceptible to it, but Hobbits as well. To which I then commented:
"This is what I have been trying to tell myself, in order to try and come to terms with Frodo's actions and words in Osgiliath: "The Film Ring is much more powerful, much more able to exert a will of its own, it's wearing Frodo down earlier as a consequence, no-one could have resisted....... " But then I always reach the same stumbling block: If the Ring has such a strong corruptive presence and consciously active evil will in the Film, why then doesn't it affect film *Sam* at all?"

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Thereafter I was musing about why in the movie, the more powerful film Ring doesn't seem to impact Sam or doesn't choose to do so at all, when it takes such an immense toll on Frodo, much more so at this point in the movie than in the book, the way I see it.

I am really trying my best to see what others see here, and that's why I posted; - seeking explanations and comments. Otherwise, I really am pondering whether this is a discussion we should get into just yet. There are so strong emotions involved..... Mind you, I think it is absolutely worth discussing. But for now, I'll not write anymore, I think, and I'll just end the post with these for ainon:

:k :k :k

Edit:
Hey, what I *should* have said (again) though, is that I am impressed beyond words by Elijah's acting. I mean, look at that expression at the top of that Osgiliath buiding! Agony, rapture, relief at finally giving in...... What does the rest of you see there?

Hope you all had a wonderful Christmas!

Speak to you soon, with hopefully something to say about TT and EW!

Luthiea x

Originally posted by Viola Took
one thing for sure though -EW's acting just blew me away. Book canon or not, he made the most amazing transition from carefree hobbit, to world weary etc etc. This guy is a *seriously* good actor....dare I say that he is an Ian McKellan in the making???

Ian Mckellan is awesome. No one in their right mind would disagree.

But I have decided that Elijah's acting talent is no less than McKellan's and he has years to get even better! For me, Elijah Wood has already equaled Ian McKellan's talent.

Some may consider that almost heretical, but I stand by it. That's how I feel about EW.

The problem, as I see it, is that there are few roles that challenge the skills of such great actors - and especially few roles of that magnitude combined with a Director worthy of the title. And if such actors waited until such roles came to them, they would seldom work at their craft. We need more great roles for Elijah! This boy needs to be challenged! And we need to see him act! (Well, at least, I do!)

Frodo may turn out to be the role of a lifetime for Lij. I hope we see him in many more wonderful vehicles in the future, but at the moment, I am too overwhelmed by Tolkien/PJ's project to believe that such quality will present itself again. I hope it does.

And BTW, the same goes for Orlando Bloom, who shows incredible promise. I hope he can continue to tap into that promising talent. What a find!

I just thought I'd let the Faculty members know that I just posted a long two-post comparison of movie / book Frodo in the Trilogy review thread, for those who are interested in where my thinking has gone on how PJ presented Frodo in the movie. (And even then I haven't made it to Ithilien - that's another whole issue, which I'll probably manage to finish writing about tomorrow!)

I haven't been really active here because I've been using my internet time for the discussion in the Trilogy - that doesn't mean I'm not still following this thread! I hope everyone had a wonderful Christmas, and when things settle down a little I look forward to resuming active membership in the Faculty!

I've been reading it, Narya! I am really enjoying it!

I'll not comment on it until I have absorbed all of what you have to say, and then only if I have anything to add. But please do keep on going. Your posts are enlightening, encouraging, and a delight to read!

{{{Narya}}}

Curses, curses and more curses...
I managed to lose my post...and what a measured, sincere and thoughtful one it was. :p Dang.

Shortened version follows:
Maeglian: re the Invisible Post and its subsequent post: I may be in error :eek: but I detect an apology for feeling differently about some aspects of the movie.

Excuse me; trout me if I'm wrong: but isn't this thread's heart in nitpicking, debating and pondering over every microscopic detail ?? How on earth can we do that in a dramatic and entertaining manner if we all (shudder) agree all the time???:confused: Now that would be a fate worse than death. Eru preserve me from a world in which we always agree .

OK. Re Sam and the Ring. This is my thoughts: though please remember that I've only seen the film once and thus may change my opinion later.
I think Sam does not feel the pull of the Ring at this point (Osgiliath) because he is a Hobbit. In the Concerning Hobbits thread in the Green Dragon it was pointed out that Hobbits had a remarkable resistance to the Ring because they had no wish for Power along the lines of Men and Elves. Their desires seemed to be a lot simpler: hence Bilbo despite having the Ring for a long time actually remains remarkably untainted by it and used it for not much more than avoiding annoying people. Even Gollum after centuries of ownership used it for small things and world domination never entered his head!!!(Until RoTK that is)

Frodo is beginning to succumb, despite being a Hobbit, because he is wearing it continually, has worn it on his finger several times and Seen the Eye, and has been wounded by a Morgul blade which despite the fact that it healed seems to have made him more susceptible to the will and thought of the Ringwraiths.

Frodo's almost surrender at Osgiliath matches book Frodo staggering up the road to Minas Morgul ,'til prevented, and then on the heights feeling the pull of the Wiki and wanting to give in and put the Ring on. It seems to me, as someone else (and I'm sorry I have skimmed for the reference but can't find it but was taken with it so thank you whoever you are) has suggested, Jackson ,the wretch, has used Osgiliath in place of the path to Cirith Ungol. The actions of Frodo fit Tolkeins description. The setting has changed.
I think EWs interpretation: an almost psychotic reaction is appropriate: on the doorstep of Mordor, tired, wounded (Morgul blade) and faced with the Wiki the power of the Ring is overwhelming.

And as Ainon points out: even Sam feels the pull when he takes the Ring for such a brief time in Mordor. He almost succumbs to the vision of Sam the brave with gardens unparalleled. The impact of the Ring swells when close to the land of its creation and its creator. But Sam is not a Man but a Hobbit. And moreover he has not to this point (Osgiliath in the film) worn the Ring. So his ability to resist it, ironically, is greater than Faramir's or Boromir's.


I'm actually reading the Sil at the moment and it repeatedly points out how Men were the prime targets of Sauron because they were much more easily than elves or dwarves bent and corrupted to his will. It points out that dwarves were tougher to crack: hence dwarf rings of power but no dwarf ringwraiths !!! (Now doesn't that create a less than terrifying image: fat, stubby wraiths who refuse to ride horses :D ) I think Hobbits join the dwarves in their resilience to corruption and their determination to live their lives on their own terms and with their own unique values. Sam has this. Frodo did, but has almost been broken. :(

disclaimer: this is a personal theory only. Haven't finished the Sil yet and have no copy of Tolkein's letters within my grasp. Rats.

Prim

edit: Bunniebugs- somewhere Narya spoke about being "spoiled" simply by being on the boards. I agree and actually would go further. I think for many of us the fascination of FoTR will never be replaced because for me and I guess many (not being, alas, in any way unique) the first movie was stunning simply because we did not believe it could be done and yet it was. That virgin thrill (pardon the analogy) is just that: virgin . Once experienced, never quite repeated.
Now we know what can be acheived on film ; its inevitable that our expectations leap and we are more critical.

Goldenberry: those comments re Faramir and his questioning of Frodo not only were really interesting but also made a lot of sense. Cool.

Originally posted by Carleenya
The problem, as I see it, is that there are few roles that challenge the skills of such great actors - and especially few roles of that magnitude ..... We need more great roles for Elijah! This boy needs to be challenged! And we need to see him act! (Well, at least, I do!)

And BTW, the same goes for Orlando Bloom, who shows incredible promise. I hope he can continue to tap into that promising talent. What a find!

Ok, I (almost) agree. Prim, Azalea and I were discussing this the other day. My comments were that truly great actors will be good even in awful movies And lets face it, with the intense scrutiny of actors such as EW in these movies, we are getting to be very good at identifying characteristics of really good actors! .

Also, truly great actors can be recognised by a certain characteristic -even when in the background of a scene, they stay in character, respond to the central character of the scene, and thereby enhance the movie. Look at the ensemble acting in FOTR and Shakespeare in Love (a who's who of english acting)...and compare that with actors like Sean Astin, who is sometimes in, and sometimes, less than *in* character when in the background. In Sean's defence he impressed me much more in TTT than in FOTR.

I would love to see EW in more roles, big and small, and believe that their variety, and the craft he develops as an actor will be telling, even in the smallest roles. *That's* what I can see in a lifetime of work from older actors such as Sir Ian McKellan.

Ditto Carly's comments about Orlando (except for the sliding down the stairs on the shield scene...what *was* PJ thinking of??? :confused: )
viola

Dear Maeglian: Your feelings and opinions are as legitimate as those of the people who loved TTT. It's strange to me that you are apparently feeling a little apologetic or hesitant about expressing your not-so-rosy views--because that's just how I felt at first about loving the movie!

We are all adults here, MOST of the time ;), and we can give one another the breathing room to work through our reactions. Exploring why something does or does not work for us is part of the fun. I don't think anyone can make themselves love the movie, and critiquing it isn't going to change anyone's opinion, positive or negative, unless they find some new approach that feels right to them.

For my part, I know that my appreciation for these films has been tremendously enhanced by talking about them and reading all the intelligent commentary here and on previous incarnations of the thread. I never used to be capable of critiquing a movie in any depth. I knew what I liked and what I didn't, but wasn't very good at analyzing why. With the LOTR films, it's been a revelation. I've learned so much about movie-making technique, script writing, and acting. It makes me all the more impressed with good directors and actors.

It's also increased my awe of Tolkien and his achievements. That essay on Faramir posted at TORn was an "AHA!" moment. Faramir the skilled interrogator: how did the Professor come up with all that? I'm in the midst of reading JRRT's Letters at the moment, but am only at the point in 1939-40 where he is giving brief progress reports to his publisher. It's amusing and sad at the same time to see, 14 years before its eventual publication, his hopes that he may be finished within the year!

Who else saw the special last night on E! about TTT behind the scenes? It had recent commentary from Elijah--with his buzz cut, and wearing that diagonal-striped shirt he wore for the Today show. Also comments from PJ, Andy Serkis, Karl Urban (drool:p ) and Miranda Otto (she rocks!:D ). They were all interviewed in the same hotel room at various times, judging by the same vase of flowers on the side table. Nothing really new, but they did show several nice long clips of Frodo and Sam, as well as other TTT clips.

Does anyone have any info on when Thumbsucker is or was filmed, or on EJW's new film with Jim Carrey et al? With Carrey, you can't tell whether something is going to be a comedy or a drama. The title could also go either way.

As for future roles, I'd love to see Elwood get his turn to do a Shakespeare film some day. Comedy or tragedy. Or both!

P.S. Viola, I'm LOL about the Legolas shield-surfing scene. My 15 year old niece loved that!:rolleyes: ;) :D

Spent all day catching up here, instead of working. Who needs work anyway? Thanks to all for their contributions. Keep them coming.

As somebody who was less than enthralled at first viewing of the movie, I can now confidently say that I'm converted. I loved it on my second viewing, due to the fact that I finally knew what was in and what was out and didn't have to spend my time wondering. Tonight is viewing number four.

I'm afraid I don't really have anything constructive to add to that. Just please keep up the discussions. I'm loving it :)

Originally posted by Goldenberry
As for future roles, I'd love to see Elwood get his turn to do a Shakespeare film some day. Comedy or tragedy. Or both!

Tragedy. Tragedy please. I'm sorry, but he just does the angst SO beautifully! Sigh!

Goldenberry, Thumbsucker has not yet been filmed. I heard January or February, but nothing definite. Believe me, I have my ears and eyes wide open! :D

The film with Jim Carrey (I've already forgotten the title) was listed as a drama. Jeez, I hope that's the case. I can only take so much Jim Carrey, but I admit that I did like his performance in Truman. So, we'll have to see on that one.

Prim, you are so right about the "virgin" aspect of the films. I had already come to that conclusion myself. Add to that the fact that there is less of that fantastical, magical feel in TTT (IMO). No Lothlorien, no Moria, no Rivendell. Despite the wargs and Ents, it mostly concerns the world of men, and therefore feels much more... normal, I guess. And nothing could ever come close to my feelings at seeing the Shire spread out before my eyes...

I've tried to imagine seeing FOTR and TTT all in one sitting, and wonder how it would have felt. Besides exhausting, I mean. :p I can't quite imagine how the flow of emotions would have gone, but it would have been amazing. I look forward to someday having an all-day viewing of the trilogy, just to see what it feels like... :cool:

Having seen it twice already, I am prepared to love it more as time passes. I find that I can't get it out of my mind, and part of me is chewing it over at any given time. And the more time that passes, the more I feel the urge to see it again. I actually wish I already had it on DVD so that I could pop it in whenever I want...

{{{Maeg}}} :k What Goldie wisely said in her first paragraph, and a me too to Goldie there, about how it felt initially to like the movie . :) And it does look like we're moving towards discussion here, and exchanging viewpoints, etc. This can only get more interesting. ;)

Narya, that thesis-in-progress has to be one of the best stuff I've read since I started my message boarding life. :) I'm impatient for the next installments! Thank you for putting so much thought and research into it.

I guess I should come clean now and make my heretical bordering on sacriligeous comment and pray that the trouts won't hurt too much! One of the reasons I was just so excited and happy about TTT was because I actually came out thinking how great it was that PJ hadn't given us 100% canon BookFrodo.

Okay, ouch, those trouts do hurt. stop that!

Narya's mentioned the points in her post, and well, those were exactly the things that crossed my mind as I watched the movie (minus the book references though. like EW, I haven't really read the book of late :p ). I honestly was so glad that movieFrodo did not swoon, faint, cower, launch into long soliloquys; he didn't even fall! Thrown about, yes. And tackled. But not literally fall. He wasn't even stooping from the weight of the Ring yet -- initially I thought it was because the Ring wasn't that heavy at this point, but then I recalled the spy photos we've seen: shots of Frodo stooping as he walked through Emyn Muil, and of Sam supporting Frodo, and started wondering if PJ decided to give Frodo a stronger backbone instead. ;) Basically (and because I tend to look at things from a more shallow perspective :p ) I was thinking that MovieFrodo was safe from pansy accusations this year. And he is, actually, isn't he? Haven't seen such a thread at CoE yet, at least. :D

Well, hugs to all Faculty members. Anyone still not seen the movie? I am patiently waiting till 1st January to share something wonderfully TTT-ish with everyone - at least no one seems to have remembered it so far - but I keep wanting to share it now! :)


In the meantime, I'll share this, from TORN, a very good Elijah Wood interview, IMHO:
http://www.scifi.com/scifimag/february2003/transcripts/index.html


ps -- elda, yep, definitely tragedy, angst, walloping amounts of more tragedy leading to overwhelming angst ...

Bunnie -- both movies in one go is brilliant. Back-aching and bladder-challenging (there was a toilet break between the two but I had my crisis during FotR), but absolutely an experience not to be missed. :)

I am patiently waiting till 1st January to share something wonderfully TTT-ish with everyone - at least no one seems to have remembered it so far - but I keep wanting to share it now!

Now I'm intrigued :) Why not post it now, with spoiler warnings? Go on! You know you're itching to do it :)

EE, welcome back! (I absolutely second your most recent post!)

Goldenberry, ainon, Primrose: :k

Yes, it's true I have been worrying over unintentionally hurting someone with my opinions since many of us are so emotionally invested especially in the portrayal of Frodo. But of course I agree that we wouldn't have much to post about if we couldn't post and discuss opinions and views not shared by all. And anyway, I'm way too gabby to keep silent for long..... Hence, I went over to the Trilogy and posted this Looooong post about Frodo in TTT. :rolleyes:

Actually, having seen the film again today and having read a lot of insightful posts here at KD, I have now come to terms with what I like and what I dislike about Frodo's portrayal, what disappoints me, and why. The very short version: I am extremely unimpressed with the editing and cutting out of scenes in Osgiliath, and the way Frodo is presented as a consequence.


Spoilers!
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About the Ring's possible impact on Sam, though, I paid attention to Sean Astin in the last scene, both when Frodo calls him Samwise the brave and when he repeats it. (Tearing my eyes away from Frolijah, that's quite difficult, .... but I made it! :rolleyes: :D ) Ainon is clearly right! Sam *really* seems to like being called "the brave", and seems happy and pleased with himself. The Ring at work? Time, and RotK, will tell. But somehow I doubt that PJ will not crank up Sam's scenes with the Ring a little bit too, come the day.


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End spoiler


I will be away for the next week and so will not be able to follow discussions here. I do look very much forward to all the insightful and great discussions that will be waiting for me when I return.

Before I leave, I'd like to wish everyone at the Faculty and at KD:

A very happy new year!

Have had my first viewing of TTT today. Initial impresssions? Favourable. Hubby really liked it, better than 'Fellowship.' I wouldn't go that far, (at least not yet) but was impressed with the film's scale and atmosphere, and with its undeniably epic quality.

Maeg - yes, I also think the Faramir/Frodo relationship could have been closer to book canon, without losing any tension/drama - in fact IMO it would have added interest. I think that's one area of the film that would benefit from more attention, closer scrutiny of the characters and their impact on each other. The scenes with Frodo and Faramir were too few and too short. There are aspects of Frodo's story I desperately wanted to see on screen that PJ & co. have overlooked or disregarded, so I must hold onto the hope that some of the 'missing' Frodo-centric material may make it onto the extended DVD!!!

That said, Elijah was simply stunning! His delivery of, 'They're here... They've come,' was totally chilling and awe-inspiring. Now I do realize that since first seeing 'Fellowship' and discovering this remarkable young man's acting talents I have become more than a little biased, but it's difficult to find words to describe Elijah's amazing performance.

POSSIBLE SPOILERS BELOW
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This truly is a different Frodo: gone is the innocent, confused, frightened young hobbit who left the Shire. Yes, he's tormented, he's weary, the Ring is weighing heavily on his mind - but this Frodo is brave, determined, (he tried to 'go' for The Black Gate three times IIRC) and he is much more decisive, believing his own instincts to see some good in Gollum, and pitying him despite Sam's misgivings.

I can't begin to remember everything after one viewing, but I loved Frodo's physically painful reaction to the presence of the Eye; his sensitivity and understanding towards Gollum; (I think Frodo almost always called him 'Smeagol') his almost subconscious caressing of the ring as he lay in the dark; his immediate response to Sam fallling at The Black Gate - it was refreshing to see Frodo rush to his friend's aid in a dangerous situation.

Above all, I think Elijah excelled himself during the final moments in Osgiliath - the depth and range of emotion portrayed on his face as Frodo attacked Sam, and then the slow realization, as he dropped the sword, as he 'became himself again,' was wonderful to behold.

Although I enjoyed the rest of the film - I really liked Eowyn, her personality and her humanity came across very well, I think - I still found myself itching to get back to Frodo/Sam/Gollum & co. I liked Helm's Deep more than I expected to, and also the Ents worked well, though I did think of Gimli whenever Treebeard opened his mouth. I think the non-Frodo scenes will grow on me with further viewings, but I know I'll be using the 'next chapter' button a lot come the DVD. Just can't get enough Frodo!!!

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END SPOILERS.

Ainon. I'm pleased you like the film. Love that little snippet you posted about EW in the hotel room in New York. Bless. Poor love -he feels older than he is and doesn't look his age. He is so endearing.:)
Btw, our dog, Holly, is back to normal. Thanks for thinking of her, Ainon. She had so much fun opening her Christmas presents on Wednesday! Her new ball is almost as big as her!:rolleyes:

Welcome, Elwen. Don't go lurking again. We love people who say nice things about Frodo and Elijah!!!

Hello to Cionaudha - I went to The Harem earlier and posted that Snow Angel pic you wanted! Sorry you had to wait so long, but I only saw your post of the 24th December earlier tonight as I was catching up in here after a few days off for the Christmas holiday. Anyway, it's there in The Harem now. Have a swoon for me, too!!!
:) :) :)

Oh well, sleep beckons. Until next time. Bye all.

Originally posted by Eagles' Eyrie
Now I'm intrigued :) Why not post it now, with spoiler warnings? Go on! You know you're itching to do it :)

Oh, I am! But I want to share it with everyone, and not just folks who read the spoilers. So I'll wait till the 1st. In the meantime someone else might mention it anyway. :)


Blossom! Congratulations on your first viewing! :D Ooh, that line is amazing, all right, and just one of the so, so many stunning deliveries to be appreciated. "They're here. They've come." <shudder> I know I'm biased, but heck, just as tg could choose an avatar a day, I have a feeling I could pick a line a day too. ;) And btw, tg, thanks for leaving us a Frodo with light shining through him. :k

Narya, your posts in the Review thread in Trilogy are incredible. Thank you. :k I hope that you'll be starting up the discussion here too, soon. Or maybe we could use your posts in Trilogy as references. Frodo may not have had the most scenes in TTT, but the ones he had were absolute brilliance. There is just so much we could gab about!


EW.com has news about the Jim Carrey movie: http://www.ew.com/ew/report/0,6115,401586~10~0~elijahwoodwillcostar,00.html

It's a comedy. It does seem like a great thing for Elijah to be part of such an ensemble cast, doesn't it? Hope his technician will be a very overworked fellow who has to keep appearing in almost every other scene ... although I suppose it'd be too much to hope that he'd have more screentime than Carrey. :D

Anyone seen 'Adaptation'? Is it as good as they say? Who's Mark Ruffalo, btw? That's the only name I don't know.

http://a552.g.akamai.net/f/552/606/1d/image.pathfinder.com/ew/dynamic/imgs/021220/9462__wood_l.jpg

caption: 'SUNSHINE' BOY Wood will costar with Carrey and Winslet


Elijah Wood signs on to ''Sunshine'' with Jim Carrey. The ''Rings'' star will appear alongside Kirsten Dunst and Kate Winslet
by Brian Hiatt

Frodo Baggins, meet Ace Ventura.

''Lord of the Rings'' star Elijah Wood has signed on to costar with Jim Carrey and Kate Winslet in the surreal comedy ''Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind,'' according to Variety. Wood joins a cast that also includes Kirsten Dunst, Tom Wilkinson, and Mark Ruffalo.

The movie, to be directed by Michel Gondry (''Human Nature''), was written by Charlie Kaufman, whose ''Adaptation'' script just scored a Golden Globe nomination. In the film, Carrey and Winslet play a couple who try to rescue their relationship by having uncomfortable memories erased from their brains. Wood will play one of the technicians who perform said erasure, according to Variety.

caption: 'SUNSHINE' BOY Wood will costar with Carrey and Winslet [/B][/QUOTE]

From the description, this could be fun - do you suppose he gets to wear a geeky white coat when playing a technician? ;)

Blossom - thanks for your review!

Maeglian - I think we've all felt a little wary of expressing our views, because at first emotions were running high and some thought that different viewpoints were negating their own POV. Absolutely understandable - the people on this board had a lot invested in what they wanted to see in TTT!. But my impression is that this has settled down a lot, and that everyone's prepared to accept that it's OK that we saw this movie differently, and reacted to it differently, and we're all still good people and good Tolkien fans!

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ainon
I hope that you'll be starting up the discussion here too, soon. Or maybe we could use your posts in Trilogy as references. [QUOTE]

Well, until after the 1st, I've been avoiding putting any movie discussion in here - and after that I can either re-post my five "Frodo Thesis" posts here, or just let people read them over there. They are long - even by Faculty standards! But I'm glad you found something of interest in them. :)

tgshaw - your PM box here is full. You have a PM at CoE.:)

Hi everyone
I hope you all had a great Christmas. Prim, Viola and I got together - the first time in a while. Naturally we did the TTT analysis over bubbles...or was it red wine...it all seems so blurry now!;)

I haven't posted in over a month but have been avidly reading. In truth I haven't got anything additional to say that hasn't already been said. I DO agree that EW shows a greater depth to his acting in this movie and has escalated in my opinion - even surpassing a rather comely elf :eek: (Shock - Yes, Viola it is true)

Just a brief note to let you know I have not dropped off the face of the (middle)earth...but have reverted to lurking again.:D

Originally posted by azalea baggins
I DO agree that EW shows a greater depth to his acting in this movie and has escalated in my opinion - even surpassing a rather comely elf :eek: (Shock - Yes, Viola it is true)

:eek: well in that case I won't tell anyone how many posters came with all the magazines that I brought to nz and found their way into your office (cough)..of said comely elf ;) :k


we did all agree that EW's acting was just superb...some disagreements about other parts of the film, but then the discussion in this and other threads has echoed that, and as Goldie and ainon said, we don't expect everyone to agree and it makes life much more interesting to hear the different viewpoints anyway.

what will EW be like playing a *comedy* with Jim Carrey ???

we wants angst!!!! (as for Shakespeare...what about Romeo -or better yet Mercutio or Hamlet -they do die well (;) )

viola

edit: Azalea -shouldn't your signature be "my three therapists all say I'm "just fine" ? :D

azalea -- aww, stop with that lurking business, already! You know you wanna delurk into complete geeky posthood. :D Besides, Carly will appreciate the elf-loving company. ;)

Not that I don't appreciate Orlando Bloom, mind you. He's a talented actor. I'm just feeling a tad miffed that while Legolas gets to stand and pose elf-ily and earns dreamy applause even from repressed Asian audiences, Frodo only gets to look absolutely, utterly, terribly, amazingly, heartbreakingly, appreciatively angsty and weary and drawn and tired and errr ... gee, I guess I don't have anything to be miffed about. :D

Narya:
Well, until after the 1st, I've been avoiding putting any movie discussion in here - and after that I can either re-post my five "Frodo Thesis" posts here, or just let people read them over there. They are long - even by Faculty standards! But I'm glad you found something of interest in them.

Well, if everyone's okay with it, I hope you'll repost them here. :) There're some interesting Elijah quotes from recent interviews that we could discuss along with those TTT events.

At least no one seems to be complaining that Frodofans have all but hijacked the TTT Reviews thread. :p

Hope everyone's had/is having a good weekend! Very quiet here. Hope everyone will be coming back from holidays and all soon. Wonder how Sheryl's doing. ;)

Hi everyone!

Hope you all had a fantabulous Christmas! I did, and I got some nice LOTR goodies :)

Not been about for a while :( Couldn't think of anything worthy of posting :p

Am gonna try and read all these observations/reviews you guys have been busy posting now :)

I've seen the film twice and will have to see it several more times before I can make any proper observations (cos I'm rubbish at observing things and even worse at wording what I'm observing :D ) Have been on at the parents to come and see it with me this week (seeing as I'm not at work again until Saturday) and they were kind of noncommittal, but I'm working on them ;) :D Also getting another viewing lined up with my friend who wants to see it again, so things are looking good TT-wise.

One thing I loved - EW's 'twitchy' moment after Faramir had been toying with the Ring with his sword. It is really creepy. It must have been really difficult to do that expression. In fact I read somewhere that EW had been given 'CG help' with those weird expressions! I don't think it looked CG'd - what does everyone else think?

Anyways, in case any Brit Facultiers didn't know - One Boy and His Dolphin aka Flipper is on over here tomorrow 30th December! It's on Channel 4 at 4.15pm. It always gets shown around Xmas time, without fail! I've not seen it yet so I'll be tuning in, if only to see our boy in action and add to my list of EW movies that I've seen :)

Anyways, hope your all doing good (((Faculty girls)))

Have a great New Year everyone!

Luth x

Originally posted by Luthiea
In fact I read somewhere that EW had been given 'CG help' with those weird expressions! I don't think it looked CG'd - what does everyone else think?

:eek: Oh, here we go. Right along with the bit about his eyes being 'digitally altered' in some places.

I have seen a small animated gif of this sequence, and I'm prepared to state that it is all Elijah and nothing but Elijah. Silly people who think all that EW can do is a doe-eyed stare also seem to think that other, more extreme expressions are beyond his reach. Sheesh. :rolleyes: [/rant]

Have been trying to catch up with everything that was posted while I was at my mom's and am not even close! I think I've made it through this thread, but there's so much in the Trilogy forum that I want to read yet! (Oh, and, BTW, for whoever it was who mentioned no one had complained about the review thread getting taken over by Frodoholics, there is at least one person who posted some comments in Pearl's "Once again with feeling" [or something like that] thread instead of the review thread because of it. All very good naturedly, I'll add :) ; it didn't really sound like a complaint.)

Regarding Orlando--on the Tonight Show, Sean Astin made a comment about Orly having been in "about 35 other movies" since LotR, then he turned toward the camera and whispered, "Orlando--Need work." :p Even if Sean doesn't end up acting in as many movies, it sounds as if his directing is going ahead full steam (oh, and I think he's been added on as a regular in a sci-fi TV series this year, and he's directing some of those episodes as well).

Originally posted by Luthiea
In fact I read somewhere that EW had been given 'CG help' with those weird expressions! I don't think it looked CG'd - what does everyone else think?
What BB said!
Anyways, in case any Brit Facultiers didn't know - One Boy and His Dolphin aka Flipper is on over here tomorrow 30th December! It's on Channel 4 at 4.15pm. It always gets shown around Xmas time, without fail! I've not seen it yet so I'll be tuning in, if only to see our boy in action and add to my list of EW movies that I've seen :)
Just keep repeating, "He took this role to be able to work with dolphins, not because he thought it was a good movie. He took this role..." :p

These are all my "short comments" at the moment. I want to get into the remarkable actors/comparison to Ian McKellen/future roles discussion, but not right now. ----------- [Following not for the sqeamish] ---------- Right after I got back from my mom's, I spent all of last night "losing" everything I'd eaten yesterday, and am still feeling a bit punk (My mom isn't the greatest cook, but because of the timing I'm blaming the problem on the fast food I had on the way back to Omaha). So I'll have to catch up with the Trilogy threads and add any longer comments there and/or here some other time. I have to take it easy tonight so I can be in good shape for our Omaha mini-mini-moot tomorrow :) !!

Here's a link to an interview with Elijah from the UK's Mirror. It's an interesting article because it's got a little more to it than the usual "fluff" questions that we've been hearing over and over again. Be warned though: it's not terribly upbeat! :(

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/allnews/page.cfm?objectid=12442216&method=full&siteid=50143

Welcome back, Luthiea and tgshaw! Hope you're feeling better, tg - enjoy the mini-moot!! :)

Thanks for the article, elda. It's a tad suspicious though, isn't it? Somehow I get the feeling the writer went through a lot of trouble to set a depressive tone in that piece. :o


Some other misc. Elijah stuff:

people.com is reporting Elijah's new role -- reading this you'd think Elijah hadn't been working since the age of 8 and hadn't already co-starred with the likes of Sigourney Weaver and Kevin Kline and Mel Gibson and Gary Sinise, to name just a few. :p

December 20, 2002

Elijah Wood Bags Role in All-Star Movie

STEPHEN M. SILVERMAN

Elijah Wood is on a roll.

The Frodo Baggins of "The Lord of the Rings: The

Two Towers" saw his movie gross more than $26 million on its first day in wide release Wednesday, Reuters reports.

With such a heady launch, the cumulative box- office take for the second part of the J.R.R. Tolkien trilogy is expected to zoom past the $100-million mark by Sunday, say industry observers.

Now comes news that Wood, 21, will costar in the upcoming movie "The Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind," from a screenplay by Charlie Kaufman, who wrote and serves as the subject of the new Nicolas Cage movie "Adaptation."

The new drama, to be directed by Michel Gondry ("Human Nature") also boasts a modest cast: Jim Carrey, Kate Winslet, Kirsten Dunst, Tom Wilkinson and Mark Ruffalo, Variety reports.

Shooting is expected to start next month in New York.

As with other Kaufman movies (besides "Adaptation," his credits include "Being John Malkovich"), this one involves the human brain.

According to Variety, Carrey and Winslet will play a couple out to rekindle their romance through a revolutionary treatment that erases painful memories. Wood's role would be that of a technician overseeing their treatment.


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There's a brief and amusing interview at ew.com:

http://www.ew.com/ew/report/0,6115,402142~1~0~,00.html

It's entitled 'The Shire Thing', with the blurb 'Tolkien's head hobbit shares secrets with EW.com. Elijah Wood reveals why ''The Lord of the Rings'' trilogy left a permanent mark on him'.

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TORn has this little bit of info. I presume it's meant for the weekly Entertainment Weekly mag:


Read the funniest thing in this week's issue of Entertainment Weekly. From their columnist Joel Stein: "I called Wizards of the Coast, the company that makes Dungeons & Dragons, and asked them to send an expert to run a game for me. Then I asked all my friends if they'd like to play. When that didn't go so well, I called the man who made it acceptable to take the threat of orcs
seriously, Elijah Wood. Actors, as it turns out, have quite bit of free time." Read on for goblin housekeepers, anger management issues and of course videogames and collectible toys.

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There's a video interview to watch at hollywood.com. I'm hoping someone who can play it will be able to tell us what that interview's about. ;) :cool:

http://www.hollywood.com/multimedia/detail/media/1702657


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Lastly, which Faculty member is brave enough to sit through a Mandy Moore music video in the name of research? :D

Info from the Always & Forever site:


Aileen sent me some info about Mandy Moore's new video clip for her song '17' which features clips from Elijah's new movie, Try 17:
The scenes include Franka always taking pics of Elijah. Elijah and Mandy always talking and drinking something. Elijah using the typewriter. And of course, Elijah and Mandy, as well as Franka and Elijah liplocking. Also, it showed a scene wherein Elijah emerged from a fire with Franka on his back. As well as Mandy offering Elijah a helping hand (literally) and Elijah accepting it. Well, the scenes also showed Franka on crutches and Elijah with a sling on his arm. The scenes also reveal the tension between Franka and Mandy.

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Originally posted by Luthiea

One thing I loved - EW's 'twitchy' moment after Faramir had been toying with the Ring with his sword. It is really creepy. It must have been really difficult to do that expression.
Luth x

Oh, great. Now I'm going to have to see TTT again:rolleyes: ;) :p just to look for that moment.

Viewing #4 was spent concentrating on how Gollum's pupils widen when he's being Smeagol. And on Elijah's incredible "face acting" when he is holding Sting at Sam's throat. Come to think of it, that scene alone is worth a 5th viewing.:D

That article from the Mirror is a downer, but not surprising. After Elijah returned from NZ, there were little snippets of interviews and quotes from him saying basically the same things as this article, i.e. not wanting to do anything but sleep and lounge around the house. At the time I thought "he's depressed" which seemed a natural reaction to the ending of such a journey. He came out of it pretty quickly. It would be more surprising if the change hadn't affected him at all!

tg--are you feeling better?

The Mirror article doesn't strike me as depressing. I can't imagine coming off a year and a half of such difficult, demanding, and exciting work and not feeling the post-partum blues.

My own job is deadline-driven and adrenaline-dependent, and when I finish up a book or presentation, I always feel a bit [i]*fleh* after. [/itsallaboutme] You use everything you have, physically and mentally, to get the job done - pushing, pushing, pushing. Then it's done and it's just... over. :( Living life with the volume turned up to 11 means 10 feels a bit dull and flat.

But then comes the next thing! :)

I do wish they would stop referring to it as "the role of a lifetime," even if it's true. Can you imagine being 21 and having people tell you that you've already done your biggest, best thing? That's depressing!

Ainon: So, People thinks that's a "modest cast." :rolleyes:

It's the last day of the year and I'm at work. Pah. I'm trying very hard to pretend I'm being hard working here. That's why I'm sneaking into KD. :p :D

Originally posted by Cionaudha
My own job is deadline-driven and adrenaline-dependent, and when I finish up a book or presentation, I always feel a bit [i]*fleh* after. [/itsallaboutme] You use everything you have, physically and mentally, to get the job done - pushing, pushing, pushing. Then it's done and it's just... over. :( Living life with the volume turned up to 11 means 10 feels a bit dull and flat.

But then comes the next thing! :)

I do wish they would stop referring to it as "the role of a lifetime," even if it's true. Can you imagine being 21 and having people tell you that you've already done your biggest, best thing? That's depressing!

LOL! Very well put, Cion, and so true. Reminds me of something Stephen King once said - I'm just paraphrasing from memory here - he's honoured that fans think 'The Stand' (written back in the '70s) was his best work ever, but at the same time it's depressing because that means nothing he's written since ever reached the mark. :D



The Official Site has a page up on the filming of the Dead Marshes. Excellent stuff if you're in the mood to swoon for the genius that is Andrew Lesnie ;) : http://www.lordoftherings.net/index_explore_deadmarsh.html

Spoiler-filled, of course, and it reveals the making-of secrets behind the Dead Marshes.

http://www.lordoftherings.net/legend/gallery/images/deadmarsh/deadmarsh1.jpg


And to show that I am being on-topic, Lesnie had talked about Elijah, see. Consider the following quote spoiler-ish if you still haven't seen the movie or any trailers.

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"Their clothing would become sodden as the day progressed," Lesnie recalls. "Elijah, Sean and Andy Serkis are wonderful actors who never complain, but it was a fragile and dangerous environment to work in, and everybody could feel the dank moisture permeating their bodies. Filming Frodo falling in and the immediate aftermath required Elijah to be soaked and Sean and Andy to be wet for hours at a time.

"I don't remember how cold the water was, but even though the actors had wetsuits and crew wore waders or wetsuits, it was bloody cold! You could feel it no matter what you had on."

I think the reason why Elijah was depressed after leaving NZ was not just the sudden ending of all the busy-ness and stress, but the leaving of people who had become like a second family to him.
He repeatedly points out how close the hobbits (and elf) became and how though he made "friends" on other sets the LoTR actors became genuine friends. After being with each other and supporting each other for so long and under such duress at times, it must have been very odd simply to be separate again. Perhaps he went through a sort of greiving as well as a period of plain and simple exhaustion. Even an energetic young bunny like Elijah must burn out every now and then and its clear PJ could be heartless and push them all to their limits. Too much so, I think.
edit: well, re reading Ainon's post illustrates that!!! I can't help thinking the actors (who I usually roll my eyes at in terms of value-for-money) certainly earned their money on this sort of shoot.

TTT I've seen the movie several times and am more impressed with EW each time.

*SPOILERS FOLLOW *









I had doubts first time about the "they're coming" line but now love it: it's so creepy. It works because it is so different from EW as the cheerful little hobbit of Bag End.
Compare Frodo as he was filling Gandalf's cup with tea in Bag End kitchen to Frodo rolling his eyes upward and waiting for the Nazgul.They are worlds apart in physical appearance (thinner in the face, paler, with longer hair which accentuates this); voice (sing song and detached from the real world); and in body language ( drooped head, stooped, rolling eyes).

Having said that I still regret the fact that this takes place in Osigiliath and not at the crossroads to Minas Morgul or on the path up to Cirith Ungol. This is one movie change I am not reconciled to. (I loathe Wenham's Faramir too which doesn't help. In fact this whole section of the film annoys me: and yet, the film as a whole is gorgeous and the time flies by so fast!!! :) )








* end of spoilers*




I'm not sure about "Sunshine" ; how will EW be in a comedy? Is this a first for him? Or is it a black comedy? That might work better.

Happy New Year to the Faculty and all KDers (and lurkers) :)
I'm tired (and boring) and frankly: I'm just going to bed early with a glass of wine and the Silmarillion. Bliss. All you party animals can have a drink/dance/yummy thing to eat for me. :p :k

love Prim

It seems a bit quiet in here. I think most of the discussion is going on in TTT thread over in the Trilogy. Very ineresting stuff there.

BB and Tg, regarding EW and CGI that Luthiea mentioned!!! I also do get annoyed at the suggestion that EW receives ANY help in the expression department. Where do these ideas originate? Elijah could teach a great many more well-known and experienced actors a thing or two about portraying emotion!

Harking back to 'Fellowship' for a moment. There is one thing that has been playing on my mind lately. For Christmas, hubby got me some of the LOTR books that a lot of you bought when they were first published. On page 148 of 'The Making of the Movie Trilogy' by Brian Sibley, there is a passage that describes what happened when exterior filming was halted due to bad weather, and they had to check out an interior location - 'The plan was to use the time while waiting for the weather to improve in filming Frodo's scale double, Kiran Shah, for a scene in which the wounded hobbit first sees Arwen arrive in a dazzling blaze of light.' - Are they saying it wasn't EW there, when Frodo, lying on the ground, turns his head to see Arwen?

I do remember, on one of the DVD documentaries, Liv Tyler talking about the 'Flight to the Ford' scene, and all the time she had to spend on the 'dummy' horse. I do realize the injured hobbit was represented by a dummy in the actual wide-view riding/chase scenes, but Liv did say that she had the scale-double, wearing a Frodo mask, in front of her on the dummy horse for close-ups, and that there was a remote-control device used for opening and closing the eyes, mouth etc. She did say that it was good to actually have Elijah there to play out the end of that sequence, when Arwen lowers Frodo to the ground, and he almost 'dies' before we see him wake up in Rivendell.

I would have sworn on oath that it was EW turning his head to first see a 'glowing' Arwen dismount her horse and speak to Frodo in Elvish! It does inspire admiration for the fact that the masks are so life-like, but I don't wants masks - however realistic - I want EW in all his emotionally- expressive glory!. All I can think of to explain this is that perhaps Elijah was filming elsewhere, for there really was no need for a scale-double there, when Frodo was alone on the ground. I mean, we were swooning over those pics, for goodness' sake! (well, some of us were) I would love to have this clarified, to know exactly how much of that sequence really WAS EW.

I have high hopes for a certain scene in ROTK - the Shelob scene -where I want to see poor Frodo lying VERY still and pale, and I WANT it to be EW acting his heart out. They wouldn't use a dummy, or a mask, for that - would they? Please note, PJ - our boy is more than capable of portraying angst, pain, distress etc. He even does 'nothingness' (Tg's term) to perfection!

Rant over.

Sorry you're not feeling well, Tg. Hope you recover quickly. Hubby is all 'flued' up at the moment, so our New Years' Eve will be a quiet one. Hey, I might even watch 'Fellowship' again, in order to repetedly watch the flight to the Ford - 'Is it a mask - Is it EW?'

Luthiea. Happy Hogmanay to you and any other KD'ers north of the border. And Happy New Year to everyone else, wherever you are.

Happy New Year too, to our hobbit-boys in Penrith. I hope Elijah enjoys his stay in the UK, and I'm sure all of us here wish him success, peace and happiness for 2003.

Love, Blossom.

It's already 2003 here. :) I should be in bed, but I think I better reply to Blossom first and put her mind at ease. ;) Btw, I'm very glad to know Holly's having a fine doggy time!

Well, they used the smaller stand-ins for wideshots where there has to be a believable hobbit-sized hobbit in frame, and over the shoulder close-up shots of the other actor. In that example, they were probably filming a wideshot of Arwen walking towards small Frodo lying on the ground - she's facing us, Frodo is facing her, so we see only the back of Kiran's face. I guess that shot never made it into the final cut, or at least I can't remember seeing a wideshot. They were all close-ups, weren't they?

During that ford 'dying' scene, I think Liv Tyler mentioned that some effort was needed to make sure Elijah could be there for her in that position, acting opposite her. You know, I'd always thought that Frodo's head was somewhat too big when Arwen was hugging him. ;)

Actually, it's pretty easy to tell when it's Kiran and when it's Elijah. Kiran is a bit stout, while Elijah's thin. The mask is very realistic from a distance, but there's still a lifelessness to it if you really look. The dummy is quite realistic too, but rather floppy. The digital Frodos are the best stand-ins for Elijah, and okay those can be a little hard to identify. But at the end of the day, the digital Frodo is a scanned copy of Elijah Wood. :)


Sigh, that old CGI talk. :p Well, here's a snippet of the CHUD.com interview, with the relevant part emphasised by me. :D


It's not 1st Jan for many folks yet, so I'll state that there're spoilers here for TTT, and possible spoilers for RotK.

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Q: Did you work with Peter and the other writers to make Frodo a little more external? In the book you'll see "Sam stares at Frodo, who is silent."

Wood: That's how it was written in the script too. "You're silent now. Make up the rest on your own."

Q: One example is the Dead Marshes, which is much more dramatic on screen.

Wood: Yeah, they took some liberties with that. I'm glad that they did. It draws a little more attention to the fact that Frodo is changing and the fact that the Ring is having an effect on him. We need to make that stronger for the third movie, when he is at the end of everything and lost all his faculties it makes sense, you've actually seen that progression. That was kind of a journey for all of us, mainly the writers, as we went along, to make sure that progression was seen. Peter and I would sort of sit down and talk about how we would manifest the Ring, physically. What would be shown, what we would do in terms of my face and in terms of the trance elements.

What really, really impresses me? How each trance comes across as worse than the one before. The Dead Marshes was a straightforward trance. The Faramir temptation scene - it's like we can see that exact moment when Frodo comes close to slipping into the trance, and maybe he does, but he snaps out of it. Then in Osgiliath it's looks to me like a total 'Frodo's not in right now' trance.


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Actually I came on-line because I'd only just watched 'Moulin Rouge' on TV, and couldn't spot David Wenham, and that bugged me enough to try and find out who he was. :p Anyway, since I'm here, I'll take this opportunity to wish everyone a

HAPPY NEW YEAR!

:k :k :k

Edit: ainon, someone else might correct this, but IIRC David Wenham plays a crossdresser, so can be a mite hard to spot. I want to say his character's name is "Audrey" but my memory might be stealing that from another movie.



Happy New Year all (I've been purposely saving this avatar for the occasion :) ). I'm feeling much better today--thanks for the concern. Even through the movie yesterday I wasn't quite sure my stomach would make it (I took an aisle seat, just in case), but a few hours afterward I was hungry, had some soup, and seem pretty much back to normal. So now I have two days for everything I thought I had a 10-day break to accomplish :eek: (can't decide where to start, so I'm here, of course ;) ).

The interview from the Mirror doesn't surprise me at all. As was said, he'd be abnormal if he hadn't felt that way. Sounds to me as if Elijah went through a four-year college dorm experience in 18 months. Away from home for the first time and in a somewhat foreign culture; living, working, and playing 24-hours-a-day with a group of people who are centered on the same work you're centered on, and who almost naturally become the best friends you've ever had; then having to split up--not that you'll never see each other again, but it will truthfully "never be the same." I remember that experience very well. Then add to that all the experiences I can't imagine, of being in a worldwide spotlight, being the star of one of the year's biggest films that carried possibly the most expectations (good and bad) of any movie ever made, being constantly recognized--which he's said had never happened to him before, and the rush of publicity, reactions from reviewers and the public, all the while being asked, "Well, what are you doing next :rolleyes: ?" I'd say a few months lounging around home was definitely called for, and IMO it just accentuates his "saneness" that he realized that and didn't try to go out and push himself until he collapsed, needed "artificial stimulants" or had some other awful consequence--which is what a lot of stars do. And then take on the round of publicity he did for TTT? :eek:

The only comment that seemed a bit odd was from the article writer--that this was the first time in his career that Elijah had stopped acting. Hmmm, let's see... since the main shooting on LotR was wrapped up, his "only" acting has been reshoots for FotR, two completed movies, and reshoots and pick-ups for TTT, along with getting ready to start shooting on one movie and signing on for another one. Good heavens, how will he ever get back on track :rolleyes: :p ?

Regarding the "role of a lifetime"--I suppose most of us are a little biased in that respect, but since--to me--Frodo's the most important fictional character ever created, it would be hard to top (there are a few nonfictional characters I'd love to see Elijah tackle, if the scripts were good). And, despite the disagreements on some of the storylines, it's pretty clear that everyone involved in the LotR movies was determined to make them the best movies possible, to a degree that I imagine would be rare in the filmmaking world; after that it would likely be hard to move on to another acting job on a movie that wasn't given quite as much care, and where there just wasn't the same push for excellence. What I'm crossing my fingers for is that the LotR experience will make Elijah dissatisfied enough with what's out there that he'll start making his own opportunities (when he's ready for that).

Because--to tie this in with the discussion my stomach forced me to abandon in the middle--I'm still trying to think of another actor who proves that Elijah isn't unique in what he can do with the emotional spectrum. A lot of actors can go from one end of the spectrum to the other, and can give you red, orange, yellow, blue, green, indigo and violet. But I don't know of any who have the same ability to stop on a particular wavelength and show just the right shade of indigo that fits the character at that instant--or can slide from one to another without missing a shade like Elijah does when he "comes out of it" with Sting at Sam's throat in Osgiliath. Even less, one who can take the primary colors and mix them, or put them on different areas of the canvas (I'm not quite sure which parallel makes more sense there), so that we see the combination of emotions that's present in the character at any one time.

I'd venture to say even Ian McKellan doesn't have it. In fact, it would probably be hard to develop that on stage; as we've talked about before, it's a gift particularly suited for film because of the subtlety involved. Looking over the titles in my video collection, the only possibilities I can come up with who might be able to do something of the same thing are Anthony Hopkins, Johnny Depp (maybe?), and Jimmy Stewart (when he's in a role that challenges him--he's another one who can sometimes "slack off" a bit on easier parts). IMHO, none of them can equal Elijah's innate gift, but he still has to develop it, IMVHO, before he can match or surpass, say, Anthony Hopkins. And it's going to be difficult to find avenues that really let him do that, unless he can either initiate them himself or hook up with a director and/or screenwriter who can provide them consistently. Frodo was one of the best possible roles for developing that skill (and PJ certainly pushed him to get better), but I hope it's not the last one he finds.

Now, if my boss had written something like this about a colleague, I'd shake my head and say he was on a manic swing, but I really believe Elijah's gift is one of a kind, and if there's any fairness in the world there will be a way for him to use it (more ways, I should say, as he's already used it to touch a lot of people).

Whoo. Okay, I guess that's it. You can lock me up now. :p

tg, that was beautifully said! I totally agree with you, but could not have put it in terms so colorful. I would never guess from just watching EW interact with talk-show hosts or in interviews that he is so richly talented!

But he got to use so much of his talent portraying Frodo. He must have loved doing that, and should be so proud of his accomplishments. IMO, he can continue to expand on that in good roles about real people, facing real life circumstances. God knows Real Life is often stranger than fiction anyway! And I do think playing Frodo for this director in this film was the "Role of a Lifetime" for Elijah, because he was born to do it. But that doesn't mean his career is over! Just that this project will stand out throughout history, and he can be proud of what he personally contributed to it. Very proud!

You've also touched on a good point about him taking personal responsibility for high-quality projects in his future. He is so young and in such a good position now to do so - he can act in different movies for years and still eventually find projects that mean enough to him to make them happen. And he's had quite an example of what insistance on excellence on every level can accomplish. He's talented, gaining experience, and one of the brightest minds in the field - I foresee big things from Elijah in the future. Eventually he won't settle for acting, anyway. He will want to control the whole process. And when he does--WOW!

Our only loss will be if he quits stepping in front of the camera altogether. But I hope that possibility is many years off. Right now I just look forward to seeing him act again in anything that deserves his efforts. In the meantime, we'll have DVDs of three films to watch him in over and over and over.....:cool:

Amen to all Carly said! :) I'm trying to keep my "inner aunt" from starting to worry about him again--we haven't done much of that since Imladris!--he's got so much going for him that it can almost seems too good to be true. But he's made it to (almost) 22 without being pulled in by typical Hollywood problems, which is a good sign.

I think this is my last stop online tonight. I've spent way too much time on the email discussion group lately--a lot of the members are professors with a longer Christmas break than us wage slaves, and they're certainly taking advantage of the time off!! After tomorrow, I'll probably be back to lurking (when I even have time for that), but I did send a few replies today, and I wanted to share one here--partly because I expect it to be ripped into soundly tomorrow and it helps to know I'm not alone in my opinions :( . (And just having the Faculty, its friends and lurkers around lets me know that's true--even without anyone saying anything specific about this post :) :) .)

There are a few list members who are adamantly opposed to the movies, and seem to try to find any and all possible negatives about them. That's fine with me, as long as they can support what they're saying. But it seems this one doesn't even have his Hobbit and Ring facts straight (I do expect most of the other members to agree with me on those points, but I'm not so sure about the rest).

Here's the paragraph I was responding to (from a post on "The Passivity of Frodo" in the movies):
The casting of Elijah Wood does not help. Frodo should look robust and middle-aged; Wood seems far too young, and (I hesitate to say) even a little girlish.
And my reply:
Frodo is middle-aged (barely), but his appearance is that of someone on the birthday he came of age (or close to that, for people who think the Ring slows aging instead of stops it). He did have to lose some weight between Bag End and Rivendell to achieve the full effect. I think we've had the discussion before about whether the lifespan difference would mean a Hobbit turning 33 would have the physical maturity of a Man turning 18/21; I've always considered that to be the case, which would mean an actor of 18/21 would be of the right physical age to play Frodo.

In the movie, the 17 years between Bilbo's departure and Frodo's is eliminated so that Frodo is portrayed as being the age he looks. That makes a huge difference in the characterization, as someone of that age is almost certainly going to be more passive, etc. (Some of my friends and I have decided to look at the movies as an alternate universe in which Gandalf discovers the truth about Bilbo's ring immediately after the Party; evidently the Minas Tirith of the movie has an extremely efficient library system.) I do wish Jackson had left Frodo's age as it was--if anyone could play a character who looks just come-of-age but is internally 50 years old (actually still quite young, by Hobbit standards), it'd be Wood, and I would have loved to have seen him do it.

And I'm glad to see the "hesitation" on the one comment--IMHO whether it's true or not doesn't really affect the character, unless we're trying to fit a particular stereotype.
Kind of mild praise of EW compared to our usual standards :p , but I'm sure it will get some disagreement. It's really too bad, because most of the movie detractors are people who'd probably resonate well with Elijah's subtle acting style in another setting, but his connection with the LotR movies tends to damn him in their sight along with the rest of the project that's "raped" the book. I don't know if it's significant that the person who wrote the original post doesn't complain about Elijah's acting--just his "look" :rolleyes: . That's something I may bring up, depending on what the responses are (maybe I should suggest they watch The Ice Storm :) ).

---Which brings up something else I've been trying to work out. I haven't yet ranked LotR-TTT on the list of EW movies on my website, but have just put up a note saying I want to see it enough times first to give it a chance to grow on me like LotR-FotR did. My aim is to rank the movies according to how good they are as a whole, not just according to the acting, or to Elijah's acting (so the amount of screentime he has isn't really a consideration, except insofar as it affects the overall quality of the film ;) ). I still have a few viewings ahead of me before I can make a decision, but I'd be interested in knowing what others think. Is TTT a better movie than The War or The Ice Storm? IMHO, ranking them doesn't mean they have to be judged on anything negative--they're all wonderful films.

Glad to know you've recovered, tg, and thank you and Carly for those wonderful insightful posts! Good luck with the e-mail discussion, tg. Personally I think you've written a fine reply, although technically no one ever says what Frodo's real age in the movie is. But that would complicate your point so let's not go there. ;)

IMHO 'The Two Towers' is overall a better movie than 'The Ice Storm' and 'The War'. But 'The War' is a movie that grates me a lot. The treehouse war makes me cringe every time. :rolleyes: Stu does have a couple of nice Froshadowings there, though, and we can add another one: turning on his sister for saying their father might die = Frodo scolding Sam scene. And Stuart's twin sister's closing essay drives me up the wall -- makes Sam's speech absolutely profound by comparison. :p It's a movie I watch strictly for Elijah, so I tend to rank it pretty low if we're talking about a generalised movie ranking.

Oh, and thanks for naming David Wenham's character. I can't remember who Audrey is. Perhaps that's a good thing? :D



--------------------------------------------------


Well, I have this little TTT thing I'd like to share. No great big deal, but it makes me smile each time the scene begins. Next time you guys watch TTT, and the interrogation scene with Faramir begins, remember that that was the last scene Elijah and Sean shot together for principal photography in December 2000. :) Here's AICN's Harry Knowles' account of the filming of that scene:



disclaimer - all typos made by Harry!

Frodo and Sam blindfolded, led into a place (hey it's a bluescreen, I can't tell) where they are questioned by Faramir. This is where they learn that Boromir is dead, and yet the seen does not yet lead into the scene where Frodo shows and makes Faramir understand the evil of the ring, and to let Sam and he continue their trek to Mt Doom.

Now, this is just plain odd to watch. I've never seen this intricate of Blue Screen work before. Frodo and Sam are in the center of a Blue Screen stage. Activity is all about them. Right now there are two monitors. The one that has what is ACTUALLY shooting, and then the MIX cam. What is actually shooting is a motion control camera rig, makes this really cool whirring sound, sort of like an Electric Razor on low batteries. Well, the camera is tracking all over the place, acting a bit like a steadicam in a way. Really nice camera moves, a long long take. Meanwhile, the dialogue that is being said is piped into the stage, so they kinda have to live loop their scenes, to make sure they keep the timing between themselves and Faramir, who isn't here right now.

<snip conversation with Sean Astin and discussion of special effects>

They continue to work away at the shot. This type of Bluescreen work is exceptionally painful. You see in this case there is a physical element that must be in the exact right place at the beginning of the shot, as it is the thread that ties the big with the small, and in this case it is Frodo's blindfold, that piece of cloth is the connecting tissue between the two shots, and to get it to do what you want, well, it took 6 takes, but on that last take there was a feeling, right before it, Randy Cook passed on from Philippa Boyens to me, "This is the last shot between Sean and Elijah."

I ceased watching the monitors, put down the computer, and I walked over towards where they were and watched. This scene, this is where Frodo and Sam said goodbye to one another in the realm of film production. They nailed the shot, and fell into each other, hugging. They've been atop mountains together, spent long sleepless nights, Sean has had to carry Elijah, they've wrestled with invisible cg beasties. They've cried over one another, and each morning for the last year and a half plus, they sat in FEET & MAKEUP, and became Hobbits together.

There was no champagne, no big celebration, just an honest moment between the crew and them. Elijah and Sean stood side by side, looking for the words, trying to think of something poignant to say, but instead just threw their arms up and began hugging people. This was also Sean's last day of shooting on set.

I choked up a bit, really because I know, as do all of you really, that when playing the types of characters that Sean and Elijah have here, it is a long friendship. Sure they'll stay in contact, but this is something special, the film relationship that Elijah and Sean will share onscreen, that will be eternal, but this part of it, this is it. They'll see each other in ADR, promotional junkets. They'll recall being evacuated off a mountaintop as a blizzard blew in via helicopters while Peter scouted the lowlands so as to not lose the day. I sit here and I think of what it will be like to grow an attachment with these two over the 3 films, to see Frodo and Sam, in Mordor, to imagine seeing Sam lifting Frodo while saying something along the lines of, "I may not be able to carry that for you Mr Frodo Baggins, but I can carry you!" And the idea that I was here to witness their last onscreen moment. And that it is a tiny scene really.

Two Hobbits amongst Men, recalling their journey in brief, the separation from the Fellowship, and hearing of a fallen comrade. Sigh.

Originally posted by ainon
...although technically no one ever says what Frodo's real age in the movie is.
Well, since we now have his line saying specifically that he took Frodo in after his parents died, I don't think "even" movie-Bilbo would take off before Frodo was officially of age (especially since we've also been told the SB's are "after the house*"--and they certainly wouldn't stand for an underage person inheriting what should be theirs). And we know the 17 years were dropped, because Merry, Pippin, Sam, and Rosie all look the same age at the Party as they do later. The one other possibility would be that the movie is portraying Frodo as older than he is in the book, which I don't think I've ever heard suggested--in that case, Elijah probably is too young (and the script is very badly written :eek: !) :p .

*One of my minor ear-grating moments. It's a smial, not a house, and Bilbo, of all people, wouldn't confuse the two. And while I'm at it :rolleyes: , in FotR, Aragorn twice addresses the hobbits as "gentlemen," which, of course, is a total insult to a hobbit. They're "gentlehobbits" (or "furry-footed slowcoaches" ;) ). Not that Aragorn would necessarily know this, but I'd think one of the hobbits would speak up about it, as Pippin does when he arrives in Minas Tirith.

No responses to the part of the post about Elijah by this morning, but not everyone's weighed in yet. To be fair, I should report that the "offending party" [Elijah girlish?! androgenous, maybe] this morning posted an eloquent support of something I'd written in regard to what Tolkien's work says to the reader. So he has some redeeming qualities--if we stick to the books :p ; he's just truly offended by the movies and has a difficult time seeing anything about them as good.

IMHO 'The Two Towers' is overall a better movie than 'The Ice Storm' and 'The War'. But 'The War' is a movie that grates me a lot.... And Stuart's twin sister's closing essay drives me up the wall -- makes Sam's speech absolutely profound by comparison.
Hmmm... we certainly have different feelings about The War :) . But I think I'll end up agreeing about TTT. In trying to be fair, I want to judge a movie for what it's meant to be (it irritates me when a reviewer talks down a movie because he or she doesn't like that kind of movie, rather than addressing how good it is compared to others of the same kind). Since I prefer drama to action, TTT is a little off-center for me regarding the kind of movie I usually enjoy--but it seems that the people who appreciate both drama and action rate TTT as the best they've seen. I'm afraid, though, that I won't be able to avoid my preferences enough to rank it ahead of FotR (IMHO, FotR has more drama, as well as enough more screentime for Elijah that it actually does affect the overall quality of the movie :D ).

BTW, since we were talking about ages earlier--I've completely missed that Stu and his sister are twins! I always figured they were a year or two apart in age. Does it say something about that the movie, or are we just interpreting their ages differently? Having twin sisters myself, I guess I figured if they were twins it would be mentioned somewhere, so since I didn't hear it mentioned I assumed they weren't. Which, of course, doesn't have any more validity than assuming the other way. :o And I could very well have missed something that was pointed out in the movie.

Well, I have this little TTT thing I'd like to share. No great big deal, but it makes me smile each time the scene begins. Next time you guys watch TTT, and the interrogation scene with Faramir begins, remember that that was the last scene Elijah and Sean shot together for principal photography in December 2000.
Thanks for posting that :) ! I'd seen it when Harry first wrote it, but that was so long ago I'd completely forgotten about it! So it's wonderful to have the reminder now that we can actually watch the scene :cool: . And that scene has so much emotion of its own...

And, yes, Harry does tend to have a lot of typos, doesn't he? Bless his heart :) .

HAPPY NEW YEAR, FACULTY!!!

All the best for 2003! :k

{{tg}} glad you're feeling better. And good for you, sticking up for EW's casting as Frodo :)


Well, yesterday I finally got the parents to see the film with me. I can't believe it - they both kept falling asleep! I was sitting in the middle and I had to keep proding them both with my elbows and making sure they were awake! :mad: :D My dad loved Gollum btw, said he 'stole the show'. He didn't like the ents, he thought they looked a bit silly and took something away from the general feel of the film. He never said anything about EW, I don't think he wants to encourage my infatuation by mentioning him :D I really enjoyed viewing number three but I've come to the conclusion that it's better to be sitting further back in the cinema so that one can take in all that is going on without getting strained eyes!

My thoughts on the TTT better than FOTR debate - I think that FOTR was *such* a good film that it is rather difficult to watch TT without comparing it to the first, although it is amazing in it's own way, FOTR was so ground-breaking and visually spectacular as well as being awe-inspring in an emotive sense that anything else doesn't compare if you get my meaning.

I noticed Smeagol's enlarged pupils at my third viewing too, Goldie, giving him an innocent look and the way that Gollum had small pupils - probably to make him look more evil, lol. I am struck by how much Smeagol actually looks like EW (not just the eyes but the bone structure and expressions). Not saying that they look exactly alike (of course not :p ) but there's definately something similar.

I've not watched Flipper yet (taped it as was feeling unwell on Monday and stayed in bed all day) but as I lay in bed I heard the familiar strains of music coming from my brother's room - he was watching the film! :D I questioned him about it later and he said, "Yeah, I was watching it until that stupid bloke from LOTR came on, then I switched it off!"

I wonder how EW's New Year was? Has anyone heard? I wonder if the boys are going to make a little stopover in Glasgow? If so some shopping trips may be in order ;)

Oh that's bad if EW had depression. As someone who's got depression herself I feel for him :( It can affect anyone, regardless of who they are and what they do. I can see how leaving NZ may have left him depressed. If I had been him (or me being myself) I'd have been really scared going to NZ, wondering what the other cast members would think of me, if I would fit in let alone be able to survive away from my family and what I'm used to for over a year, then on top of that you have the worries about whether the film will be successful, whether it would have been worth it. Then having experienced such an amazing life-changing time on LOTR, and knowing that it was going to be an amazing achievement, all the euphoria that comes with that, I would have been left feeling a little 'empty' and depressed after suddenly finding myself back home and without all the friends and things that I'd held dear to me over that year.

ainon - thanks for that Mandy Moore/Try 17 info. Being the saddo that I am, I actually went onto her site to see if there was any video clips available, but alas no. I went onto her forum (and there are a lot of trolls there, poor girl) and there were several posts asking about the video and some people were saying that it is being shown in the Phillipines (any KDers from the Phillipines? :D ).

I can't wait to see this new 'Sunshine' movie. It sounds interesting and a great cast aswell (thought I've not heard of Mark Ruffalo - what has he been in before?). Just think two of PJ's inspired castings in the one film (EW and KW). But why does what has been revealed of the story 'a revolutionary treatment that erases painful memories' make me think of 'Bumblebee'? :D

PS - has anyone seen this new Frodo action figure? I found this at Torn - gives a new meaning to our previous discussions all that time ago about EW's makeup and Frods 'going nuclear' at MD! And is that meant to be Sting he's holding, or another sword? I don't recall Frodo having a weapon at MD (I could be wrong of course being a new fan :p ) Any thoughts?
http://www.amoktime.com/images/lordoftherings/tblor262b.jpg

Love as always,

Luthiea

Originally posted by Luthiea
My thoughts on the TTT better than FOTR debate - I think that FOTR was *such* a good film that it is rather difficult to watch TT without comparing it to the first, although it is amazing in it's own way, FOTR was so ground-breaking and visually spectacular as well as being awe-inspring in an emotive sense that anything else doesn't compare if you get my meaning.
That rings true. A lot of the professional reviewers, even, said they'd never seen anything like FotR--and now they have. So TTT probably doesn't seem as ground-breaking as the first.

...I am struck by how much Smeagol actually looks like EW (not just the eyes but the bone structure and expressions). Not saying that they look exactly alike (of course not :p ) but there's definately something similar.
...and don't forget that one reviewer's opinion that EW's "clammy white skin" helped his resemblance to Gollum. :p

PS - has anyone seen this new Frodo action figure? I found this at Torn - gives a new meaning to our previous discussions all that time ago about EW's makeup and Frods 'going nuclear' at MD! And is that meant to be Sting he's holding, or another sword? I don't recall Frodo having a weapon at MD (I could be wrong of course being a new fan :p ) Any thoughts?
Well, I took a look at the picture, and just let me say... according to the FotR and TTT movies, and the RotK book, that figure wouldn't be accurate at any point if it's supposed to be Frodo! I assume he's supposed to be invisible (shades of Harry Potter action figures :eek: ), so that really narrows things down.

Invisible Frodo Incidents:

Tom Bombadil's house--Uh, yeah...

Prancing Pony--He didn't have a sword in the movie (he had one from the barrow in the book), and was flat on his back (in both book and movie).

Weathertop--The figure would be perfect for this scene in the book but, of course, wouldn't agree with the movie because in that Frodo doesn't put on the Ring and turn invisible until he's... ummm... flat on his back. :rolleyes: BTW, IIRC, this is the only place in the book where Frodo is invisible and has a drawn sword, and there's nothing to indicate that his sword was visible, as it seems to be in the action figure.

Amon Hen--I don't recall Frodo ever drawing his sword while invisible there, but I suppose that doesn't necessarily rule out the possibility.

ROTK BOOK/MOVIE SPOILERS







Mount Doom--Well, does anyone remember enough about the comments on the Cannes footage to recall any mention of what Elijah was wearing in that scene? Book-wise, the figure wouldn't work for Mount Doom because the figure has--well--clothes, if you know what I mean. All he should be wearing is Sam's elven cloak tied around him with a piece of rope. And you're right, Luthiea, that he wouldn't have any sword--he'd already given Sting to Sam and thrown away all his orcish stuff. But in the movie, who knows?? I hate to say it, but I could actually see how you could cut out Frodo's being stripped of "everything" without upsetting the entire story, but you'd sure lose a lot that I'd miss (especially with Gandalf and Pippin at the Black Gate). We know the scene was shot ("You can't go walking in the Dark Land in naught but your skin"), but that doesn't mean it'll be in the final product.

Now, on the off chance that the figure's not Frodo but Sam (I'm having a hard time telling, it being invisible and all :p ) it would fit Sam's Ring-wearing occasion wonderfully. But if it's Frodo, I don't know--unless there's going to be an invented Ring-wearing scene added, or Frodo keeps his clothes and his sword all the way to Mount Doom.







END ROTK BOOK/MOVIE SPOILERS




Oh, the remark about Frodo "going nuclear" reminded me of something I've meant to say. Maybe it's just as well I've been forgetting because now that it's January 1, we don't need spoiler warnings for the TTT movie, right? :)

IMHO, Frodo holding Sting at Sam's throat is the equivalent of Nuclear Galadriel, and his recovery from it parallels hers. They both come very close to succumbing completely to the Ring, but neither does. And after I saw his recovery a couple of times, I found myself thinking of hers.

I'm hoping it's a good sign that Elijah was allowed to play that scene straight (no CGI)--that is, I'm hoping it means he'll be able to do that again at the Cracks of Doom (and the comments on the Cannes footage did seem to indicate that--of course, that could be easily changed). PJ commented in an interview (I don't remember where or when) that he ended up with so many close-ups of Elijah and Ian McKellan in FotR because often when he'd planned to use a wider shot the close-ups were just too good to not use. Hopefully, he'll be similarly impressed with Elijah at the Cracks of Doom and won't want to artificially add to his acting.

That action figure is the weirdest-looking thing! I feel like someone's pulling our leg with an ice sculpture they made!

It's true, as tg said, that Frodo should not have a sword at Mount Doom. I very much doubt, though, that they will have him only wearing what he was wearing in the book by the time he gets to Sammath Naur. I suspect that the stripping in C.U. will be in (how could PJ ever pass up that Mouth of Sauron scene!?!?---he'd better not!!), but then he will probably keep his "orc gear" on, all the way to M.D.. At most, they might have him casting away his orc-mail. I do hope they keep in the bit about Sam's pots and pans, though!!

Tg, thanks for posting that Harry Knowles excerpt. It was very touching!

Happy New Year!

Hello Faculty, I've been following the thread and just found this at TORN

Thanks to Hiram, Alex and Robby who all quite rightly pointed out that the Twilight Frodo action figure carries with it the sword given to Frodo on Weathertop by Aragorn rather than Sting, hence the figure is based on that scene from FotR, and does not hint at a bleak future for Frodo in RotK.

whatcha think?

Yeah, I first saw a pic of that action figure a month or so ago. It's definitely Frodo - in fact, it's Sword Action Frodo, just in clear plastic. I don't think it was created with book or movie canon in mind, just the fact that he had the ability to be invisible and the kids might think it's cool.

It reminds me of the Burger King figure with one "invisible" foot. WTH was that about?!

Oh, Elda reminded me - my thanks too for the Knowles excerpt. Sheesh, I was crying into my cereal. I just love those boys. :)

I have the same hopes too that the MD scene is not overly SFX-ed, allowing Elwood's brilliant talent to shine through. He has already shown in TTT that he's capable of pulling this kind of stuff off without CG help. And yes, I hope the wardrobe sticks close to the book. I am hopeful, as Frodo has already lost Tweedy Coat (((Elda))) ;) and we know how PJ likes to ramp up the angst! As I said way back in the "Will Frodo be Naked" thread back at Imladris, it's crucial he be stripped of everything in CU to show the utter humiliation he experiences. :(

Ainon: I remember very vaguely that account from Harry K from a long time ago. You either have an unbelievable memory or a large collection of saved data!!! I will watch it extra carefully next time. :)
Do you know by any chance why that scene was the last shot? I thought that the films with the odd blip were shot roughly in sequence?? It must have been so odd to shoot Mt Doom scebnes and then back track to Ithilien.

Does anyone mind a moment of slightly OT discussion? It concerns what has just been discussed about Frodo's 'wardrobe' in Mordor. And I'm a bit confused... :confused:

BOOK/MOVIE SPOILERS~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



I have never interpreted what is written in the book as Frodo wearing nothing but Sam's cloak at Mt. Doom. TG seems to think this is the case, though.

I went back and checked the book, and it states that Frodo puts on breeches, a tunic, a coat of mail, a belt and sword and a cloak at CU. Later, when they 'lighten their load,' Frodo sheds the cloak, belt and weapon, but I see nowhere that he takes off the tunic or breeches (I know he removed the shirt of mail much earlier).

Am I off my rocker here? Or do others think he was clothed in more than a cloak at MD also?


END SPOILERS~~~~~~~~~~~~~



I must run and put my daughter to bed, so this is all I have time for, but I'll be back later to see what you all think. Thanks! :)

BunnieBugs, I recall Frodo still wearing the long hairy breeches and tunic of dirty leather right to the end...and I went back, like you, and checked the books to make sure. Immediately before Frodo reaches the top of Mount Doom, after they have been attacked by Gollum, it says 'Down, down', he gasped, clutching his hand to his breast, so that beneath the cover of his leather shirt he clasped the Ring.

So the leather tunic was still there - I'm afraid any visions of Naked-except-for-a-cloak-Frodo travelling those last miles to Mount Doom would be totally non-canon, and PJ is highly unlikely to change this, I would think. ;)

Oh, thank you, Narya! I thought I'd been reading it wrong all these years, which wouldn't have been that hard to believe, but a bit jarring, nonetheless. I'm relieved! ;)

On the other hand... :( The cover finally came off my 1973 Ballantine paperback copy of ROTK. *sigh* Even though my wonderful hubby gave me my first-ever hardbound set of LOTR for Christmas, I can't help but be sad over this after all we have been through together. Wanders off in search of Scotch tape...

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/pics/r2Air_NZ_747.JPG

Tiny pic, but it's nice to see. :D

Originally posted by tgshaw
IMHO, Frodo holding Sting at Sam's throat is the equivalent of Nuclear Galadriel, and his recovery from it parallels hers. They both come very close to succumbing completely to the Ring, but neither does. And after I saw his recovery a couple of times, I found myself thinking of hers.

Well, that's certainly how I've been seeing it. :) Glad to know I'm not the only one! It's his test, IMHO, and I think it'll be interesting to discuss just what was tested.

I also saw his "I can't do this Sam" as that moment when it all just crashes in on him: he doesn't expect to go back to the Shire anymore, Bilbo's going to die and he can't prevent that, Gandalf's dead, the others in the fellowship are probably dead as well (I never had trouble with F & S assuming the rest were alive at the end of FotR - neither hobbit saw the number of attacking Uruk hais, and it's understandable that they would rather believe their friends had escaped and survived), the fate of the whole of Middle Earth lies squarely on his shoulders, and the Ring's power was far beyond anything he had been prepared for. An incredible bit of acting, but of course. ;)


Somehow I never doubted PJ would allow Elijah to do what he has to do, without the aid of effects. Galadriel and Bilbo were seen through Frodo's eyes - hence the moments of transformation. But to answer your question, the Cannes reports make no mention of CGI.

And Harry Knowles has a description of Frodo as well, near the end. Suffice to say, Frodo did not appear to be naked beneath his cloak. ;) I can repost that bit again, if anyone wants another read.

Btw, the FotR cast commentary has Elijah and Sean talking about how Sam finally got rid of his backpack & stuff, but not for a long time. I took that to mean that scene is in. It's also one of Elijah's audition scenes, so PJ would know what he's missing if he doesn't have that. :D


Cadmo
Do you know by any chance why that scene was the last shot? I thought that the films with the odd blip were shot roughly in sequence?? It must have been so odd to shoot Mt Doom scebnes and then back track to Ithilien.

As Elijah said, they were shooting out of order. Apparently the Grey Havens scenes were shot pretty early on, before Pippin and Gandalf's relationship had progressed beyond the 'Fool of a Took' stage of filming, so that gives us some idea of what it must have been like. And of course, we know the scene where the fellowship was mourning Gandalf was filmed before any of them had even met Ian McKellen. ;)

Hope you're feeling fine now, Luthiea, and good luck in your quest to catch Mandy Moore's newest video. :D

And thanks, Firiel for the clarifying info on that see-through Frodo!

And of course, we know the scene where the fellowship was mourning Gandalf was filmed before any of them had even met Ian McKellen.

We do? We did? Well, we does now at any rate! :D

Wow. Now I admire that scene even more than I did before.

Prim

Oops :o . Sorry for the intrusive images. I obviously didn't go back and look it up :o , and I remembered Frodo's, "I'll be an orc no more," as being more literal than it actually was. All necessary permissions are hereby granted for future use of said intrusive images in fanfic, as long as the source is not acknowledged :p .

Thanks to Firiel and Ele for the info on the action figure. Maybe it was designed by a subversive purist who didn't want Frodo to drop his sword at Weathertop ;) . But I guess the kids will play whatever scenes they want to with it, anyway, so there's probably no sense in trying to pin it down to a specific one.

Hi everybody, I'm back from my New Year's vacation spent far, far away from cinemas and without contact with a single person even vaguely able to distinguish Frodo from Sam. :eek: So even though the vacation was lovely, it's also good to be back here. :) But it's been rather quiet here, it seems. Time to get some discussions going?

From ainon
Glad to know I'm not the only one! It's his test, IMHO, and I think it'll be interesting to discuss just what was tested. I'm all ears! What was tested? I saw it mostly as a testament to the fact that some of the *real* Frodo is still there, asserting his real will, ringspell or no, and that his bond with Sam proves stronger than the destructive power of the Ring.......

Otherwise, I hope you *will* forgive me for chuckling a tiny bit over these:From tg
Oops . Sorry for the intrusive images.
From ainon
..........that see-through Frodo!
Certainly brought to my mind a completely unexpected take on the Mt. Doom scene. :o But anyway, I think I have reached the level of comfort with TTT where I'm more than ready to read parodies and generally join in poking good-natured and respectful and even a little naughty :o fun at the characters and the action. The VSD's for instance, - they've started up again now. :)

Not that I think Frodo in any way is a natural target for parody or jokes in this film, actually. No falling down every 5 minutes, no Ring-in-palm display every 10 minutes...... Instead some very fine grim determination, mostly-silent and tormented endurance, and beautiful angsty suffering (Yes, this truly IS me talking! I said "mostly" silent, after all..... )
I haven't forgotten the IMO-still-too-much-broken-despair in Osgiliath grumble, however I think it's rather Sam's speech that could lend itself to parodies, there.

One guy who is likely to be parodied, though, probably will be Faramir. I mean, EVERY SINGLE TIME Faramir needs to think something carefully through or make an important decision on which the survival of the whole of ME may hinge, he is interrupted: A building blows up or some soldier comes rushing in with news of another disaster requiring Faramir's immediate attention and action. :p

Edit: Ok, that figures, of course: Erendis has already given this matter due attention in the award (winner is...) thread over in the Trilogy. :cool:

And as for the portrayal of Frodo, aren't we all getting in line behind Elda as she hands out the "Screw-the-Canon, Wouldya-LOOK-at-Him Award"? I know I am. :o


OK, I'll try to be very serious next time I post. A good night to you all! :)

Happy New Year, Faculty!

Glad to hear you've all been having a good holiday!:)

Just popped out of Lurkdom to share an interview that I hadn't heard mentioned here (they're everywhere these days!)
It's not actually featuring Elijah, but Dom and Billy, however they do mention wanting to get Elijah into the theatre one way or another. I think the comment was that he was waiting for something really worthwhile.
IMO, I don't know how good he'd be in theatre, his style is so subtle! But it would definetly be a learning experience for him, and that's his primary intrest in general. So, he'll probably get into theatre eventually.
Anyway, here's the link, in case anyone's intrested.
http://www.hobbitsparadise.hpg.ig.com.br/omelete_int.html

Oh, and I agree with everything that's been said about TTT. Yes, everything (I'm very non-confrontational...:o )

((Faculty))((Other Lurkers)) :)

Slightly OT while the focus is so much on TTT, but wanted to share this. I just found it over at e-bay, where I have been vainly looking for a DVD copy of The Good Son (although I am pretty sure it has never been released on DVD.. :rolleyes: - that hasn't stopped me from looking for it! :D )

The Good Son is close to being my favorite 'early' EW movie, and looking at this just reminded me again of what an amazing actor he has been for such a long time, even from such a young age.

There's something in these photos that 'captures' really well that look he had even when he was younger, of having an 'old soul.'

http://ebay3.ipixmedia.com/abc/M28/_EBAY_edab1fa84bdea0fe3df918cf58cda714/i-1.JPG

Welcome back, Maeg! And a :trout: as well for intrusive Mount Doom imaginings. For shame! LOL.

Maeg:
What was tested? I saw it mostly as a testament to the fact that some of the *real* Frodo is still there, asserting his real will, ringspell or no, and that his bond with Sam proves stronger than the destructive power of the Ring.......

That's true, of course. Proof that his inner strength is stonger than the Ring's will. Kinda ties in with what Gandalf said to him before the fellowship went into Moria. By 'test', I mean what the Ring used or could have used against Frodo? And since the Ring has tried it this time, what might the Ring do next time? :eek:


Maeg:
And as for the portrayal of Frodo, aren't we all getting in line behind Elda as she hands out the "Screw-the-Canon, Wouldya-LOOK-at-Him Award"?

Why do you think I never, ever have any problems whatsoever with movieFrodo? ;)


Hiya Daisy! Thanks for the link. As a considerate fan, I'm happy that he'd one day wish to broaden his horizons and learn to dabble in theatre acting. As a very selfish and deprived fan from way over here, I can't help but grumble ... "Stage acting?! Well, how on earth does he expect me to get to watch him then?" :p :D

Then again I've seen 'Tom Thumb & Thumbelina'. There're some things that a fan really shouldn't have to sit through ...

Daisy:
Oh, and I agree with everything that's been said about TTT. Yes, everything (I'm very non-confrontational... )

LOL! So long as you drop out of lurkdom once in a while! {{{Daisy}}}

Luthiea - so have you seen 'Flipper'?

Thanks for the photos, Narya. You're so right about him having an 'old soul' (and those eyes and that face! I'm tempted to say that left pic is a HA froshadowing).

OT --- there's a DVD shop I visit once in a while, which sells original DVDs, imported from the US. 'The War' DVD is available there, for $139.00 in my currency (US$1.00 = Malaysian$3.80). That's way too much money to spend on a DVD, especially one doesn't even have a Director's commentary. I'll never buy it, but each time I go to that shop, I can't help but notice it's still available.

tg:
BTW, since we were talking about ages earlier--I've completely missed that Stu and his sister are twins! I always figured they were a year or two apart in age. Does it say something about that the movie, or are we just interpreting their ages differently?

I forgot to reply to this yesterday, sorry! Now that you're asking, I can't remember how I figured them to be twins. Aren't they both 12? IIRC his sister says she's 12 as she begins her voice-over narration at the beginning of the movie. Can't remember if Stu's exact age is given. Elijah would have probably been 12 or 13?

And I know what you mean about judging a movie for what it's meant to be rather than condemning it. That's my approach to movies too, and to be fair, I liked the message the movie was trying to impart. It's just that towards the end there were too many :rolleyes: moments for me, so that just dashed all chances of trying to judge 'The War' based on anything other than Elijah Wood's acting.


------------------------


Btw, as a follow-up to the Harry Knowles AICN excerpt on the previous page, I'm posting this bit that I had snipped out from that. Initially I'd thought it was off-topic, but I'd shared the same excerpt with the Goonies and it was rightly pointed out that snipping out a conversation with Sean Astin isn't a nice thing to do in the Garden. ;) Actually it isn't too far off-topic come to think of it, and there's nice info for us at the Faculty too.


from Harry Knowles' AICN report, 2000, all typos still Harry's!

In-between takes, Sean runs over and sees me frantically trying to write down my perceptions of all of this… He asks me what I think of what is going on, and I can’t help but respond that this is the most complicated blue screen work I’ve seen being done.

Sean laughs at me and says, "Well on a scale of 1 to 10, 10 being the hardest, I’d say this rates a 6.5."

Yeesh… I think, "So what was a 10?"

He then sets out to tell me about a scene where Frodo and Gollum had to roll down the side of a mountain… where Frodo had to defy gravity, leaving room between himself and the ground beneath him as he tumbled.

To this, Randy Cook – visual effects god (he handled the stop motion animation of the ‘dogs’ in GHOSTBUSTERS, everything on THE GATE, a great deal of the dinosaurs in CAVEMAN and… well go look em up on IMDB ya lazy bastich, well… Randy says, and by the time we’re done with it, it will probably be an 11.

Originally posted by Maeglian

And as for the portrayal of Frodo, aren't we all getting in line behind Elda as she hands out the "Screw-the-Canon, Wouldya-LOOK-at-Him Award"? I know I am. :o

I just had to come back here and add my "Amen!" to that.

I trust no one minds? :D

Bunnie, I sure hope and trust nobody minds; we're all in this together! :)


Strange about the Good Son not being available on DVD in the US. :confused: I've seen the European version DVD recently on sale in ordinary retail outlets in both the UK and Scandinavia.


About Stu and Lidia in The War; - I think Lidia is supposed to be the older of the two, but I could be wrong. I have the film so I can check when I have time.


Hi Daisy, thanks for the interview link! And please do relurk now and then; - and feel absolutely free to disagree on TTT matters too. I sure don't mind. In fact, that's how I *really* get to appreciate all the nuances and aspects of the LotR films and the lotR characters; - reading others' opinions and seeing differing views. :)


On that note, and since my inner TTT purist has been tied up and locked securely away for now; From ainon:
By 'test', I mean what the Ring used or could have used against Frodo? Ooooh, isn't it just pure fascinating considering that question? Think about the 2 instances in TTT when Frodo falls under the spell of the Ring when a wraith is nearby. The first time, in the marshes, Frodo is suddenly and severely affected by flashbacks to Weathertop and a horrible pain in his shoulder. It's not until he has been physically and mentally weakened by that, and he's found cover with the help of Sam, that he really falls under the spell of the Ring and his will gives way enough for his hand to start moving towards the Ring (until Sam stops it.)
That's even though the will of the Ring itself, and the call for it from the wraith, must have been equally persistent in that case as in the latter one in Osgiliath.

In Osgiliath, though, Frodo is weaker, and the Ring manages to affect him so completely that he loses the sense of hearing; - probably the sense of active seeing too. Even when his eyes are still open as he stands on top of that building, the glance is very "inward looking" - focused on whatever mental images or pressures the Ring is working......

I find it really telling that he doesn't seem to show any pain in his shoulder there, although the wraith is so close. I think this may show that the Ring trance by then so deeply affects and controls his senses that he doesn't even register the cold and pain from the shoulder wound, which surely is there.

I don't see any active resistance in Frodo's expression, just some sort of pleading, and then rapture and both grief and relief at giving in. Nevertheless there *is* resistance evidenced by the pure fact that Frodo's surrendering move to put the Ring on is so slow while he stands in front of the wraith. The scene probably *seems* to stretch out in time much more than it really does measured in actual seconds, because of the intensity of it.... But I still see it as resistance and grief at surrendering.

Personally I also put Frodo's subsequent vicious attack on Sam completely down to the Ring's anger at being twarthed in its purpose, rather than this partly being Frodo's reaction to someone trying to take the Ring away from him.

It's certainly very clear how much more control the Ring is able to take, and how much more it's able to harm and affect poor Frodo, in that last Ring trance scene than the earlier one. Which of course also leads to speculation about what the Ring will and can do when Frodo is even weaker:And since the Ring has tried it this time, what might the Ring do next time? :eek: You know, I *was* planning to have as my new year's LotR resolution *not* to speculate about RotK. But I do feel embarassingly sure that I won't stick to that resolution for very long. Speculating is just so darn .......... fascinating. :rolleyes:

Hello,

Hi Maeg - hope you had a good Christmas, wherever you were visiting.

Happy New Year to you too Daisy! Thanks for that interview :)

ainon - I've not watched Flipper right through yet, but I put it on for a minute or two the other day. EW's character looked kind of bored from what I saw, I suppose that's what his character is though - a sullen teenager?

Another Lij film is to be shown on Brit TV - The War's on on BBC1 this coming Wednesday! I rented it out of my local video store a while ago, but I really want to see it again, it's one of his best films. There was me thinking our TV was sliding down the pan but they're doing really good on the EW-side of things! :D

Has anyone seen the pictures taken in Cumbria of EW, BB and DM on a pheasant shoot?

There was a big picture in my paper but here's a link to some photos -

http://photosales.newsandstar.co.uk/default.asp?template=CatSearchResults&categories=66

Any thoughts on this? I wouldn't have thought he'd have wanted to participate in killing birds :(

Thanks for those pics, Luthiea. Nice dapper look he has there. But :eek: Hunting? :eek: :(

Yes, in 'Flipper' Elijah starts off as a sullen teenager whose shallow life becomes rich and meaningful when he embarks upon a friendship with a really smart dolphin. Yes, you're supposed to say, "Awww." Oh, but it's not bad! Kinda fun actually. Look out for the froshadowings.

Originally posted by Maeglian
I find it really telling that he doesn't seem to show any pain in his shoulder there, although the wraith is so close. I think this may show that the Ring trance by then so deeply affects and controls his senses that he doesn't even register the cold and pain from the shoulder wound, which surely is there.

Which is why I have a bone to pick with Sam for grabbing Frodo by the upper left arm and yanking him! :eek: Oh, poor Frodo! No wonder he's rendered speechless! :p :D

Since we've kind of 'sick'tracked here ;) I wonder if Frodo felt the pain in HA as well, while the Ring was doing its darndest to tempt Faramir. Can the Ring induce the pain on its own? Btw, anyone else find it fascinating how Frodo's hand seems to be either curling into a fist or grabbing at the wall as he becomes lulled by whatever the Ring is doing to Faramir?

The fact that Frodo has become so attuned to the Ring is also very interesting (and alarming). Just a week or so ago (story timeline, I mean) he was holding the Ring in his palm while the Ring was calling out to Aragorn. Frodo didn't seem to hear or even sense the temptation taking place then.


Personally I also put Frodo's subsequent vicious attack on Sam completely down to the Ring's anger at being twarthed in its purpose, rather than this partly being Frodo's reaction to someone trying to take the Ring away from him.

Yeah, I think so too now. It's the Ring at work and maybe those extra scenes that were filmed show this more clearly. But it is definitely Frodo who saves Sam's life. Once Frodo had Sting out he should have simply cut Sam's throat - there was no need to hesitate - but he did, *before* Sam started speaking to him. The combined powers of the Ring and the Nazgul failed to 'take over' Frodo completely; that thought puts a warm smile on my face. :)

Totally off-topic: did Faramir give the hobbits their weapons so that the hobbits would have a fighting chance should something happen en route to Osgiliath and Gondor, nice Captain that he is? Or did Sting just conveniently materialise on Frodo's belt in time to scare the life out of Sam? ;)


You know, I *was* planning to have as my new year's LotR resolution *not* to speculate about RotK. But I do feel embarassingly sure that I won't stick to that resolution for very long. Speculating is just so darn .......... fascinating. :rolleyes:

Uhuh. It is. :D

There's much more to reply to in your post, Maeg, but I'll come back to it later. Meanwhile it's still real quiet around here ...

Good night, Faculty!

As Elijah said, they were shooting out of order. Apparently the Grey Havens scenes were shot pretty early on, before Pippin and Gandalf's relationship had progressed beyond the 'Fool of a Took' stage of filming

Probably so Bilbo could be in them; Sir Ian Holm only went out to New Zealand for a shortish time, I think.

I'd like to see Elijah do some Shakespeare.

About the shoulder-pain thing - I think it's most probably a continuity error, which we could perhaps explain away with the very good theory just posted by someone here that the trance takes over and blocks out or smoothes over the pain (whereas it pierced and surprises him before).

Could it be, though, perhaps, that it is the LORD of the Nazgul that Frodo sees the first time?

And now I'm stuck canon-wise, too. Is it only the presence of the Witch-King that causes the return of pain? "Here, yes here indeed was the haggard (cruel/fell?) king whose cold hand had stricken (smitten) down the Ringbearer with his deadly knife. The old wound throbbed with pain and a great chill spread towards Frodo's heart." On the other hand, is it even explicit in PJ's version that it WAS the Chief of the Nazgul that stabbed him?

In the book, Frodo can always tell when NAZGUL are near, (he senses the atmosphere, he feels chills) after his Weathertop experience. But I think shoulder-pain specifically may only be connected with the Witch-King. Another time he senses the Wraiths is in the boats as the Fellowship travel down the Anduin. He shakes with a chill that has fallen on them, after Legolas has killed its steed. Also, in Mordor, at one point Frodo says "There's a Black Rider over us. I can feel it. We had better keep still for a while."

Gollum, too, is very sensitive to their presence. Sam can't fail to notice them altogether, of course - byt maybe the fact that Frodo and Gollum have both in some way been directly tortured by them makes them more sensitive to their presence?

Thank you, Luthiea, yes; - I had a wonderful holiday. :)

And I am not happy about the hunting pictures either. Killing animals just for fun is not something I'm happy to see EJW or anyone else doing. Sure hope they didn't go on to join fox hunting too! :( Nevertheless, I couldn't help smiling a little at the photos. Here are the 3 gentlehobbit actors of the fellowship, all dressed up and doing their darndest to look and behave like English country gentry. I don't know what Tolkien's opinion on hunting was, but otherwise I think he'd have approved of the guys there.

On to matters TTT:From ainon:
Can the Ring induce the pain on its own? I don't think we've seen any evidence of that, but I would think that it can, and will do so, in RotK. Here comes the speculation already; - I think the Ring will try harder to incapacitate Frodo physically in addition to mentally. The Shoulder wound would be too good an opportunity for the Ring to miss using then, surely. It is the same evil that drives the Ring and the Nazgul, after all.

Btw, anyone else find it fascinating how Frodo's hand seems to be either curling into a fist or grabbing at the wall as he becomes lulled by whatever the Ring is doing to Faramir? Uhm, ..... yes. Need you ask? :o
The fact that Frodo has become so attuned to the Ring is also very interesting (and alarming). Just a week or so ago (story timeline, I mean) he was holding the Ring in his palm while the Ring was calling out to Aragorn. Frodo didn't seem to hear or even sense the temptation taking place then. Are we certain he senses the temptation in the scene with Faramir? Intellectually he does of course know, and he has seen much evidence, that the Ring has a strong tempting effect and pull on powerful humans (as well as wizards and elves). So he is aware that the Ring must also be tempting Faramir......... especially since the setting is so eerily reminiscent of Boromir's attack on him. (Not to mention the sword at his throat :rolleyes: )
However, I was wondering if the Ring in that scene isn't actually letting Frodo sense the temptation of Faramir, but is rather forcing Frodo into a trance to remove his active will and determination from the equation; - to ensure Frodo does nothing to counteract Faramir's action should the man decide to take the Ring. After all, the Ring was unsuccessful in its attempt to ensnare Boromir because Frodo was able to fight back effectively.

And then Frodo proves that he is *still* able to fight back at HA, by breaking out of the trance against the will of the Ring.

I'm not entirely sure about all that goes on in that scene. Gives me a good excuse to see the film again (like I need one! :rolleyes: )

From Niphredil
Could it be, though, perhaps, that it is the LORD of the Nazgul that Frodo sees the first time? (snip)Is it only the presence of the Witch-King that causes the return of pain? I'm not entirely sure, canonwise, but I would tend to believe that all the nine could cause the wound to react. It is the same will of evil that drives them all, and they are presented as indistinguishable (except for their King, of course). And none of them are present when Frodo falls ill back in the Shire on the anniversary of his stabbing.

Filmwise it could very well be that it actually is the Lord of the Nazgul who flies over the marshes, and that that is the reason for the shoulder wound hurting. That the Lord patrols the marshes could make sense if he/Sauron was sensing the approach of the Ring. Otherwise one would think that the Lord of the nine should rather be occupied in Minas Morgul or with for instance the imminent attack on Gondor/Osgiliath.

In the book, Frodo can always tell when NAZGUL are near, (he senses the atmosphere, he feels chills) after his Weathertop experience. This certainly seems to be the same, and even to have been magnified, in the films. From Frodo's scream of "Get off the road" back on the Road to Bree, to him waking up at Weathertop, immediately sensing that something is not right..... not to mention his desperation at being dragged towards Osgiliath...... and the subsequent creepy "They're here; - they've come" line.
It seems that movie Frodo is very well attuned and sensitive to identifying the evil of approaching Nazgul. I have always put that down to the impact of the Ring on his mind, but it may be that having actually been physically attacked and wounded by the Nazgul contributes to that sensitivity too.

Originally posted by Maeglian

However, I was wondering if the Ring in that scene isn't actually letting Frodo sense the temptation of Faramir, but is rather forcing Frodo into a trance to remove his active will and determination from the equation; - to ensure Frodo does nothing to counteract Faramir's action should the man decide to take the Ring. After all, the Ring was unsuccessful in its attempt to ensnare Boromir because Frodo was able to fight back effectively.

And then Frodo proves that he is *still* able to fight back at HA, by breaking out of the trance against the will of the Ring.
Oh, this makes complete sense to me! I had been struggling with that scene, trying to make sense of what happens and why, and this explanation seems to really click for me. I'm interested to hear any other interepretations that you all might have.

Since we seem to be speculating about ROTK (:eek: don't tell anybody!), I find myself wondering if the confrontation with the not-very-scary Nazgul at Osgiliath will take the place of the very-scary-in-the-book riding out of the Lord of the Nazgul from Minas Morgul. Any thoughts? I love this section of the book, and the fact that Frodo stops himself from putting on the Ring (with the help of the Phial), and I suspect that it will be one more instance of Frodo's strength that will fall by the wayside... :(

About Minas Morgul: PJ says in the FotR SE DVD commentary that Minas Morgul will be seen in the 3rd movie. So it could well be that the army riding out of the MM gates is shown (almost too good, dark and scary a scene to miss, really). Whether or no Frodo's struggle with the lord of the Nazgul will occur according to book canon is much more doubtful IMO, given the intensity of the Osgiliath scene. The next encounter would have to top that one, wouldn't it?

Another thought: Perhaps Minas Morgul is used in the story instead of Cirith Ungol. Faramir's much-displayed map didn't show where Minas Morgul is, I think. :confused: They must have been vague about that for a purpose.

Hi all, and thanks to Ainon for inviting me here. A most interesting discussion!

I agree that the intensity of the Osgiliath scene and the non-existence of Minas Morgul on Faramir's map point pretty strongly to the possibility that the book's "temptation" scene before the bridge into the Nazgul city will not appear in the film. The geography of the closing shots in TTT (straight up the cliff to----Cirith Ungol?) also make it look like we might go right to Shelob's Lair, though I hope we get to see the fallen king at the crossroads first!

There's an enormous amount of stuff to cram into ROTK, even if it really IS going to be the longest film (please, please), and it wouldn't surprise me at all if PJ has moved the dramatic content of the bridge scene into TTT to save time and up the ante of the middle film, both of which are goals he's articulated in many interviews.

I think Frodo's reaction to Faramir's exposing the Ring might have been partly a kind of swoon as the Ring called out to Faramir, as Galadriel said it would do, but I also thought from my first viewing that Frodo was fighting against his own impulse to put the Ring on and keep it for himself. We know he feels that pull already-- I even thought he felt it briefly at the Council of Elrond, though it is surely fairly constant now--could that not have been part of his reaction?

Someone above was wondering what the Ring would offer Frodo. We know that it offered Sam a vision of himself as "Samwise the Strong, Hero of the Age, striding with a flaming sword across the darkened land, and armies flocking to his call as he marched to the overthrow of Barad-dur," followed by a dream of a garden of flowers blooming in Gorgoroth at his call.

I'm sure the Ring offered Frodo something very similar--"power according to his stature" with the saving of the Shire being uppermost, perhaps, but this morning I also had another thought--I wonder, as Frodo covered the last despairing miles and saw nothing but death awaiting him and his faithful companion--did the Ring whisper to him that if he would only give in and take it, put it on, then his beloved Sam need NOT die??

Since someone in the Harem just drew my attention back to the "Mirror article" of the Elijah interview mentioned earlier in this thread, I have a question or two about it.

For Elijah, a child actor whose first film appearance was in the 1989 movie Back To The Future Part II, it was the first time he had stopped working in a 25-film career.
Do you think he has really been in 25 films since 1989? The count seems a bit high to me!

Also, he debunked any relationship at all with Franka. Now Lij, we have pictures of you kissing her, as well as a certain grab south of the border that should never have been printed. No relationship at all? :rolleyes:

I would love to have a nice, long, intimate conversation over beers, sitting on pillows in my livingroom leaning against the furniture with that boy. A no-bull**** talk. Of course, I would have to get the whole story of his life before he out-drank me. :rolleyes:

Originally posted by Flourish
...but I also thought from my first viewing that Frodo was fighting against his own impulse to put the Ring on and keep it for himself. We know he feels that pull already-- I even thought he felt it briefly at the Council of Elrond, though it is surely fairly constant now--could that not have been part of his reaction?
Hi, Flourish, and welcome!

I thought that same thing, mostly from the expression on Frodo's face when he shouts "No!" and gets out of Faramir's grasp. It looks to me like an angry reaction to the possibility of losing the Ring. It'd be kind of a strange situation for the Ring to be in (taking the movie-Ring as something that can act on its own). It wants to go to Faramir and is angling for that, but it's gotten such a hold on Frodo that he doesn't want to let it go. It's almost as if the Ring has outsmarted itself. But if Faramir had reacted like his brother, Frodo's moving out of his grasp wouldn't have stopped him--and maybe the Ring was counting on a Boromir-like reaction.

-----------

Carly--I haven't figured this out ahead of time, but I bet we can make it to 25 movies. I have 18 ranked on my website (that includes the first two LotR movies, which I'd think would be included in the count because it's talking about him stopping after those were shot). Add Back to the Future II and Internal Affairs (another one-liner, where he jumps on the back of a guy who's attacking his mother), and we're up to 20.

Child in the Night makes 21.

If we add RotK (which had also been shot), we're up to 22.

Hmmm, I've included Tom Thumb, because I'm sure it was made before LotR, just not released. I haven't included Ash Wednesday or Try 17 because they would have been shot after his "break" -- I think, or did he do Ash Wednesday and then stop?

So, maybe we can't make it quite to 25. If they counted the Homicide episode the list would go to 23.

Ah-ha!! Chain of Fools was shot before LotR--we're up to 24 (if we count the Homicide episode).

So, can anyone add one or two more, or did they "round off" the number?

Edit: I just clicked over to my website and got the list of 18:

1. LotR-FotR
2. LotR-TTT
3. The War
4. The Ice Storm
5. Radio Flyer
6. Avalon
7. Bumblebee
8. Huck Finn
9. Forever Young
10. The Good Son
11. Deep Impact
12. The Faculty
13. Black & White
14. Oliver Twist
15. Flipper
16. North
17. Paradise
18. The Animated Movie Whose Name Shall Not Be Mentioned

Ohmigawd!, tg! He has made that many!!

:eek: :eek: :eek:

Poor child - he should be worn out for a while!

I had gotten offline and was just ready to go to bed when this one hit me: Day-O !

25 if we include Homicide, 24 if we don't.

My list also includes The Witness, and two movies where he was uncredited (Ball in the House, and Life without Dick). So if you exclude Homicide, and include The Witness, that makes 25 actual movies! (even excluding the two where he isn't credited).

Back to the Future II? And are we counting his potato-chip commercial? The Paula Abdul video?

BTW, the "Official" List from IMBD.com: which is pretty comprehensive...

Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind (2003) .... Lab Technician
Thumbsucker (2003) .... Justin Cobb
Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King, The (2003) .... Frodo Baggins
... aka Return of the King, The (2003) (USA: short title)
Making of 'The Lord of the Rings', The (2002) (V) .... Himself/Frodo Baggins
Making the Movie (2002) (TV) .... Himself
... aka Making the Movie: The Lord of the Rings (2002) (TV) (USA)
Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers, The (2002) .... Frodo Baggins
... aka Two Towers, The (2002) (USA: short title)
Try Seventeen (2002) .... Jones Dillon
Adventures of Tom Thumb and Thumbelina, The (2002) (V)(voice) .... Tom Thumb
Lord of the Piercing (2002) (TV) .... Frodo
Ash Wednesday (2002) .... Sean Sullivan
Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring, The (2001) .... Frodo Baggins
... aka Fellowship of the Ring, The (2001) (USA: short title)
... aka Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring: The Motion Picture, The (2001) (USA: promotional title)
Passage to Middle-earth: Making of Lord of the Rings, A (2001) (TV) .... Himself
Quest for the Ring (2001) (TV) .... Himself/Frodo Baggins
Chain of Fools (2000) .... Mikey
Bumblebee Flies Anyway, The (2000) .... Barney Snow


Black and White (1999) .... Wren
Seventeen: The Faces for Fall (1998) (TV) .... Himself
Faculty, The (1998) .... Casey Connor
Deep Impact (1998) .... Leo Beiderman
Oliver Twist (1997) (TV) .... The Artful Dodger
Ice Storm, The (1997) .... Mikey Carver
Flipper (1996) .... Sandy
War, The (1994) .... Stuart 'Stu' Simmons
North (1994) .... North
Good Son, The (1993) .... Mark
Adventures of Huck Finn, The (1993) .... Huck Finn
... aka Adventures of Huckleberry Finn, The (1993)
Witness, The (1992) (TV) .... Little Boy
Forever Young (1992) .... Nat Cooper
Day-O (1992) (TV) .... Dayo
Radio Flyer (1992) .... Mike
Paradise (1991) .... Willard Young
Avalon (1990) .... Michael Kaye
Child in the Night (1990) (TV) .... Luke
... aka Testimone oculare (1990/II) (TV) (Italy)
Internal Affairs (1990) .... Sean

If you start from RotK on down, and eliminate the TV and "making of" stuff, is that 26? But I wouldn't count Try Seventeen...so that's 25.

Also his TV stuff:


Paula Abdul: Straight Up (1989) (V) .... Himself
Back to the Future Part II (1989) .... Video Game Boy #1 I guess this didn't count as a movie?

Notable TV Guest Appearances

"Osbournes, The" (2002) playing "Himself" in episode: "Bark at the Moon" (episode # 1.2) 12 March 2002
"Electric Playground" (1997) (episode # 7.13) 5 January 2002
"SM:TV Live" (1998) playing "Himself" 12 August 2001
"Homicide: Life on the Street" (1993) playing "McPhee Broadman" in episode: "The True Test" (episode # 5.8) 22 November 1996
"Adventures from the Book of Virtues" (1996) playing "Icarus" (voice) in episode: "Responsibility" (episode # 1.3) 3 September 1996
"Frasier" (1993) playing "Ethan" (voice) in episode: "Guess Who's Coming to Breakfast" (episode # 1.13) 6 January 1994

The Ring seemed to have different affects on each of the four Hobbits who carried it.

Both Frodo and Bilbo seemed content to simply possess it. They couldn't let it go but I don't recall either of them being tempted by it's power or to use it for any type of personal gain.

Both Sam and Gollum, however were tempted by this aspect of the Ring. In the book I find Gollum's comments about using the Ring to become "Gollum the Great" are uncomfortably similar to Sam's fantasy of "Samwise the Strong" Sam overcame these temptations (Gollum obviously didn't) of course but the fact that the Ring was able to reach him this way seems to IMHO point to a distinct difference in Frodo and Sam's character.
That Sam could envision himself wielding the Ring (however briefly) in comand of others-and almost immediately after taking possession of it - seems a direct contrast to Frodo's quiet suffering and determination to complete the task appointed to him no matter the cost to him. I think this also provides interesting insight for those who might argue that Sam could have carried the Ring successfully.

Of course we are never privvy to what the Ring might be using to work against Frodo but I always got the impression that for him just the simple promise of release and peace woud be a powerful seduction-especially near the end. That is certainly what I read in that scene in Osgiliath. I have never gotten the impression that Frodo was really tempted by the power the Ring possessed except perhaps to save those he loved from suffering.

Flourish, I have also wondered if the Ring didn't attempt to use Sam against him. I think the Ring tried to turn them against one another and though it wasn't successful, one more burden has been placed upon Frodo's shoulders-the knowledge that he is becoming a danger to someone he cares deeply for. This is true in both movie(Osgiliath) and book (CU) verse. I would also agree that it's quite possible that the offer to save Sam from harm was one of the Ring's weapons. That's why I think it's very interesting the way things have been set up now with the confrontation between Frodo, Sam and the Ring in Osgiliath. I should think that the idea of Frodo harming Sam is one that never occurred to either of them. That changed with the events in Osgiliath/CU. So not only are there dangers from outside, Frodo himself could pose a very real threat to Sam as well. And that is something I don't think he would ever be able to live with

Also agree with Meaglian
I said in the Trilogy thread that I think the Ring overplayed it's hand there. It underestimated both Frodo's inner strength and the bond between he and Sam. It had been able to turn friends against one another before and under far less dire circumstances. But Frodo is not completely lost at this point. He is IMO very much aware of what's happening to the both of them in that scene from the time he puts Sting to Sam's throat. By the way look at that scene the next time any of you watch the movie. The sword is not just at Sam's throat but is within a hairsbreadth of actually piercing the skin. By all rights Sam should have been dead. It is only due to Frodo's extraordinary resistance and Sam's love for and belief in him that they are able to come through that relatively unscathed. You have to credit both of them because had Sam chosen or been driven to fight back...well it does not bear thinking about. That is where I think CU might play out differently (although I would like to be wrong) since by that time both of them have carried the Ring and Tolkien has already told us that Sam is relunctant to give it up. Besides, we all know how much PJ likes to up the stakes.

Henneth Annun:
Flourish, I would agree that the Ring was working on both Frodo and Faramir in that scene. It is also yet more evidence of Frodo's ability to resist the Ring. He broke free of it in that instance completely on his own.

Well this has turned into quite a long, rambling post. It is never a good idea to get me going on Frodo and Sam. I could go on all day:rolleyes:

Ok, this article is a great ROTFL read. It's rather tongue-in-cheek, and the bit about the maid ... :D :D And this definitely seals it - Elijah is a Geek. ;) Entertainment Weekly "Slay Trippers" (http://always.ejwsites.net/images/dundra.jpg)

Hello Flourish! It's wonderful to see that you've made it here. :) More good stuff to discuss too!

If I'm not mistaken Richard Taylor also talked about Minas Morgul appearing in the 3rd movie. But it may be just a shot of Sauron's forces marching out, led by the WiKi. Frodo & Sam have already witnessed enough bad guys marching around; they needn't see another troupe. Still, who knows? The Phial will be in the 3rd movie, to paraphrase PJ: till then it's sitting safely in Frodo's pocket.

I can actually appreciate the difficulty in showing a Frodo-in-distress reaching for the Phial as a source of strength -- it works beautifully in our imaginations, but on screen, without being privy to Frodo's thoughts, we'll be seeing him miming first a move for the Ring, then a making a grab for the Phial, then him just cowering there, clutching that thingy, waiting for the darkness to pass. And again, since we're not hearing Frodo's thoughts, it doesn't put Frodo in favourable light that a Nazgul on a horse some distance away is having that kind of an effect on him. IMHO that's why PJ greatly exaggerated the Nazgul encounter in Osgiliath, to emphasise just what Frodo's up against.

Anyway, back to HA ... that the Ring kind of outsmarted itself has also crossed my mind. It wants to get away from Frodo, but Frodo isn't going to allow that. I do believe Frodo was very much aware of the temptation of Faramir and yes, that's why his face contorts with anger. I don't know if Frodo would want to put it on though, Ringspell or no. Note that even in Osgiliath, he's pretty much face to face with the Nazgul before he starts to to try to put it on. Cinematic effect aside (and hey, that is an incredible sight: one small hobbit standing before the Nazgul and its steed, and that slow flap of the fellbeast's wings) Frodo could have put the Ring on as soon as the trance took hold of him in Osgiliath. In HA, Frodo is very aware that he cannot use it, not even to escape. I don't think the Ring could have cracked that particular defence in HA. It still remains Frodo's one very interesting trait: that he never wants to claim it for himself.

Just talking about movieFrodo ... he's never felt any comfort from that Ring, has he? Not even the comfort of simply possessing it. He inherits it, but then promptly dumps it into a trunk, apparently not even curious enough to try and find out what it's like to be invisible. First time he really holds it, he also finds out it's Evil, with that capital 'E' and he's got to leave his life behind if he wants to save the Shire from said Evil. Soon after he finds out that a Nazgul and Ring in close proximity can really mess his head. Then, first time he tries to use the Ring, he ends up right smack in wraithland. He arrives at Rivendell and figures he's done with it, but nooooo, he's still stuck with it and that big jolly Eye. :p So really, what could the Ring possibly tempt him with? There's nothing Frodo could possibly want, IMO, other than to be released of the burden of bearing it. I think this is also why Frodo tried so hard in TTT (movie) to deny that he was slowly becoming fascinated and obsessed by the Ring.

Originally posted by enaiowen
The sword is not just at Sam's throat but is within a hairsbreadth of actually piercing the skin. By all rights Sam should have been dead. It is only due to Frodo's extraordinary resistance and Sam's love for and belief in him that they are able to come through that relatively unscathed.

Beautifully said, enai. :) I'm anticipating a very tense CU stand-off too, and I think PJ gave us Osgiliath to prepare us for CU. Remember those old discussions that stemmed from Elijah's quote about how 'the audience will hate Frodo for what he does to Sam'? I'm thinking PJ has cleared that issue up now that he's really established the Ring as a third character coming in between Frodo & Sam, and also by making it very obvious that a Ring-affected Frodo is *not* Frodo, Although that will cease to be the case after they leave CU. :(

by enai:
It is never a good idea to get me going on Frodo and Sam. I could go on all day

And the problem with that being? :p :D

Well, Good Night to you all, and a Happy Weekend. I picked this screencap from elsewhere and enlarged it a bit. Our little glimpse of Innocent Frodo in TTT - even if the circumstances were of a tricksy nature.

http://www.imagemagician.com/images/ainon/LoTR/frodo-forbiddenpool.jpg

Originally posted by enaiowen
By the way look at that scene the next time any of you watch the movie. The sword is not just at Sam's throat but is within a hairsbreadth of actually piercing the skin.
Seems like you couldn't get much more intense than that, but Sean Astin has said they filmed a more intense version of this scene that will probably be on the extended DVD. I think it contains more of the fight between them, though, before the sword ends up at Sam's throat. I can see how more of that could be left in--while they're falling down the stairs, etc.

---------------------

A few pieces of "consumer information" on Ash Wednesday:

As I think has been posted before, it's being released on video and DVD on February 18 and can be pre-ordered now from Amazon (and probably other places).

The VHS costs over twice as much as the DVD--wonder if that means they expect most of the VHS sales to be to rental outlets rather than "private consumers."

There's another movie titled "Ash Wednesday" starring Elizabeth Taylor, released in 1973, available on video. Sounds like a fairly good movie, but it's not the one we're looking for ;) .

And one thing I found a bit ironic (although I didn't mind it at all :p !). Amazon has four items in the "People who bought this DVD also bought..." list for Ash Wednesday. The first three are Elijah Wood movies. The fourth is an Ed Burns movie. :D :D To make it even better, Elijah's name doesn't appear anywhere in the "product information" (there's no cast list posted yet)--just Burns. And (it just keeps getting better), Amazon "popped up" Bumblebee for me as another movie I might be interested in--What, no Sidewalks of New York?! (Not meaning to dis Burns in any way--just an interesting turn of events.)

But the first "also bought" DVD listed, believe it or not, is TT&T :eek: . My interpretation of this odd fact is that a lot of those who're ordering Ash Wednesday are people who are picking up new EJW releases as they come out, and who very likely bought FotR somewhere other than Amazon. (BTW, #2 is The Faculty and #3 is Avalon.)

Enaiowen, good point about Sam as an unlikely bearer of the Ring. I think, though, that by the time it got itself as far as Mordor, it was probably sending both the hobbits a similarly aggressive message--not unlike the thoughts of its Master at that point, probably.

Thanks again, Ainon! And a great pic, btw. Pardon me for snipping in a few places below--


In HA, Frodo is very aware that he cannot use it, not even to escape. I don't think the Ring could have cracked that particular defence in HA. It still remains Frodo's one very interesting trait: that he never wants to claim it for himself.

Yup, you're right--I stand corrected. Frodo definitely wants to keep it there, but he's still smart enough not to want to wear it.

Just talking about movieFrodo ... he's never felt any comfort from that Ring, has he? Not even the comfort of simply possessing it.

Except for that rather creepy moment in the marshes when he caresses it as Sam sleeps, only to discover that Gollum is literally shadowing his every move. Frodo's fascination with the Ring, played out as the "addiction" EW and PJ speak of, is very clear here. The comfort to a wanderer in a dark and gloomy place of a bright and shiny object, perfectly formed, inestimably valuable, highly desired by my companion but mine, all MINE...... hmmmm.....

very obvious that a Ring-affected Frodo is *not* Frodo, Although that will cease to be the case after they leave CU. :(

What will cease? This sounds interesting!

Good points, everyone - much of it very in line with my thinking about these scenes. Just thought I'd add my IMHO .02 about the whole HA scene... (some of this is similar to what I said several weeks ago in the Trilogy thread, but I've added material where my understanding has evolved, and eliminated what wasn't relevant to this discussion.)

The scene that immediately precedes this, where Sam urges Frodo to use the ring, is really important IMO because it shows Frodo’s growing understanding of the ring, and how it has been influencing him – and it shows his renewed determination to resist it. Earlier in the movie, when Sam was telling Frodo about how the ring was affecting him, Frodo was not yet ready to acknowledge it – now he has fully accepted it, and his understanding has moved even further than Sam’s. Sam saw only the ring’s effect on Frodo – Frodo understands that he cannot use the ring without Sauron seeing him – he feels the Eye on him, and knows he will be revealed, and HELPLESS, if he uses it.

His conversation with Gollum in the marshes made him realize AND REJECT the attraction and pull of the ring that he had begun to feel – we never see him giving into the attraction of it in the same way again. In the caves, I believe we see him taking this one step further, and rejecting the notion that he can ever use it for his own ends (even to temporarily disappear in order to escape) – he knows he is not powerful enough, and that it would only bring the Eye to him.

So when Faramir’s approaches Frodo, and lifts the ring with his sword, the ring speaks. What I saw was that, coming just after Frodo’s conversation with Sam, the ring knows it will not be able to use Frodo – so it is calling to Faramir. Frodo’s face gets the same look that it has every other time he has been tempted to put on the ring – but this time, the ring is not urging him to put it on, but is trying to leave him. (Galadriel’s voice over as the ranger’s walk with the blindfolded hobbits states that the ring is trying to reach men, so it has already been suggested that THE RING ITSELF might not wish to stay with Frodo).

But Frodo resists. There is a selfish motive here – Frodo is not prepared to lose the ring – but he also clearly understands the danger of letting it fall into the hands of a man. His reaction here is not so different from his reaction to Boromir – he had the same frantic tone in his voice when Boromir tried to take the ring from him, and he cried out “No!” I think he keeps his back turned to Faramir for two reasons – not only because he is trying to protect the ring – but because he is frightened and exhausted - this is the FIRST TIME in the entire two movies he has resisted the urging of the ring solely with his own strength. (At Weathertop, he was able to take the ring off after realizing it made him MORE visible – but was not able to resist its initial urging to put it on.)

By resisting the ring like this, I think Frodo INTERRUPTED its call to Faramir. After this, Faramir never again tries to take the ring from Frodo – he intends to send it to his father, BUT NOT TO TAKE IT FOR HIMSELF! I find it interesting that Faramir does not seem personally drawn to the ring after this. Did Frodo's actions prevent the ring from completing its call to Faramir? Because whatever Faramir desires may be (and I do believe pleasing his father is at the top of this list), the desire of the ring is ONLY TO RETURN TO SAURON. The ring's attempts to be discovered suggest to me that it's original temptation to Faramir HAD TO BE to take it himself - so that by claiming it, Sauron could find it. That would be the will of the ring.

IMO, Frodo's resistance prevented this, and so Faramir's own motivation / temptation took over - to please his father by sending the ring of power to him.

I hope to have a chance to follow up on other parts of this discussion later - particularly the Sam as ringbearer and Frodo-under-the-influence-of-the-ring parts. But I have no time now - and this post is long enough already!

Flourish, welcome! :)

Enai, please do get going on Frodo and Sam. We're more than prepared to read more and discuss it afterwards! :)

Narya, I completely agree about how the 2 scenes (Frodo snapping at Sam when he tells Frodo the Ring is affecting him and he has to fight it, and the HA scene) show how much Frodo's realization and consciousness about the Ring's effect on him has grown in a very short time. Where in the first scene there is denial and anger, in the second there is honesty, understanding of the implications of the Ring's impact and the restrictions that places on him, and a will to refuse the Ring's call.

There's been so much posted that I'd like to comment on, unfortunately I can only mention a very few things:From Ainon:
So really, what could the Ring possibly tempt him with? There's nothing Frodo could possibly want, IMO, other than to be released of the burden of bearing it. Well, Frodo does want to save the Shire. Unfortunately for the Ring, Frodo has a very clear and deep understanding that it will be the destruction of the Ring, not him claiming and using it, that will save the Shire. And so the Ring has difficulties in finding a way to tempt Frodo or to use Frodo's greatest wish and dearest ambition for its own purposes.

Instead it works in 2 ways: It steadily increases the pressure on Frodo's mind, undermining and destroying his ability to act from his own free will, pushing him constantly towards acting according to the will of the Ring instead. And simultaneously it makes Frodo obsess over it, cherish it, just like Flourish descibes so well in the post above. Even if Frodo's will cannot be totally overcome, at least the Ring can secure that Frodo will want to keep and cherish it, and will not want to destroy it or give it up to someone the Ring would rather not be with.

(btw, Frodo's Ring obsession is portrayed in the latest "For your consideration" ad from New Line, I saw it over at CoE. I hope that one makes it over here soon;- it's really something.)

It's amazing how extremely well both Frodo's growing fascination with and attachement to the ring, and the Ring's erosion of his free will, is shown throughout TTT. PJ's "show it, don't tell it" approach works marvellously when combined with Elijah's outstanding acting. The little scene where Frodo's caressing the Ring, - look at his face there, the slight movement of the lips: It's an extremely intimate moment. With a golden Ring! It's amazing.
And as for the erosion of free will: The Ring trance in Osgiliath and Frodo's immense internal struggle to return to himself, to not hurt Sam...... it's shown so chillingly and wonderfully without Frodo having to make a speech about the effect of the Ring. The one line "The Ring is taking me" in HA is the closest he gets to voicing the constant and immense pressure he's under, isn't it?

Of course we are never privvy to what the Ring might be using to work against Frodo but I always got the impression that for him just the simple promise of release and peace woud be a powerful seduction-especially near the end. Oh, I agree. And in the film it seems that such release, the temptation to simply cease the struggle, is a very powerful element already in the Osgiliath scene. At least that's a part of what I'm reading into Frodo's expression as he stands before the Nazgul; - relief at giving in, in not having to fight anymore.

I also find it wonderfully restrained filmmaking that PJ does *not* tell us in detail what the Ring is using to get to Frodo, that he simply uses Elijah's acting and expressions to convey this. The filmmakers could have used inner monologues, or speeches, or shown us scenes that take place in Frodo's thoughts and mind...... I am extremely happy that they have refrained from doing so, except for showing several times how the Eye impacts him like a terrible shock.

The way this has been done we're left with ambiguity and room for interpretation. IMO Frodo's struggle with the Ring has a much stronger impact that way, when one specific interpretation isn't spoon-fed to the audience...... I really hope this continues in RotK. That way, we will never be completely sure, but we can try to read Elijahs expressions and Frodo's actions and we can wonder whether for instance, as Flourish says: .....as Frodo covered the last despairing miles and saw nothing but death awaiting him and his faithful companion--did the Ring whisper to him that if he would only give in and take it, put it on, then his beloved Sam need NOT die?? :eek: :eek:
----------------------------------------

From Enai:
You have to credit both of them because had Sam chosen or been driven to fight back...well it does not bear thinking about. That is where I think CU might play out differently (although I would like to be wrong) since by that time both of them have carried the Ring and Tolkien has already told us that Sam is relunctant to give it up. Besides, we all know how much PJ likes to up the stakes.
I agree with you in this. The scene between Frodo and Sam in CU played out the way it is done in the book, would seem very restrained and not a very big deal after what the 2 of them have gone through already in the movie's TTT Osgiliath scene. So I am anticipating that PJ will really up the tension and drama (and conflict?) in CU. And of course, the difference between Osgiliath and CU is that in the meantime, Sam has both worn the Ring and he has it in his possession, and he is somewhat reluctant to give it up. I would be very surprised, actually, if this doesn't come into play in the film significantly more than it does in the book in that particular scene. Again, PJ will be wanting to show it, not just tell it..... :eek:

From Narya:
Frodo’s face gets the same look that it has every other time he has been tempted to put on the ring – but this time, the ring is not urging him to put it on, but is trying to leave him.
Has anyone else heard the Ring saying "Use it" during that scene? I've heard it twice, but not at my other two viewings, and I wonder if I hallucinated it. I didn't hear it say a name... whereas in Fellowship I heard Boromir's name, and Elessar when Aragorn was being tempted, and of course Baggins in Bree. But no name this time. So I wonder... was it tempting Faramir or Frodo or both? After Frodo's speech, I get the impression that in the movie, Frodo putting on the Ring would have helped the Ring get back to Sauron.

Mel

Mel, I think the Ring was actively tempting Faramir; rather than Frodo, in HA. Galadriel says: In the gathering dark, the will of the ring grows strong. It works hard now to find its way back into the hands of men.

I haven't managed to hear the Ring say anything specifcally in that scene...... There were no subtitles in the cinema for that scene either (There were subtitles here for the times when the Ring spoke in FotR.)


Another thing I have been wondering: Has anyone managed to keep track of Frodo's clothes and the things he carries and the changes throughout the film? I've been planning to keep a look out for this but get so involved with the story every time that I forget. But it seems to me that in the final scene, he isn't carrying anything anymore while earlier he had a backpack too (well, he is carrying the Ring, which is burden enough, of course, and Sting.....)

Maeg, I made sure to track that in yesterday's viewing, as we had wondered about that over in the harem last week. Here's what I come up with:

Neither Frodo nor Sam have their packs or coats when they are captured by Faramir. But we see Sam's pack and both swords being carried by Faz's men as they head to HA. (I haven't seen Frodo's pack or the coats.) In HA, our boys have neither packs nor swords. On the way to Os, Sam has his pack on and Frodo doesn't, but I can't make out if the boys have their swords. They do have them in Os, although Frodo sometimes has his, sometimes doesn't. As they tromp off through Ithilien, still only Sam has a pack, and both have their swords.

So, as far as I can tell, Frodo never gets his pack back and neither of them gets his coat back. I can't see a logical reason for Faz to give back some stuff and not other, and I can't see him letting them carry their swords before he has decided to let them go. It's confoozling.

But I came across some information about the EE DVD that worried me a bit and I wanted to pass it on.
I read an article discussing the EE and Helm's Deep and the statement was made that the battle on the DVD would garner an "R" Now I know this was said about the FOTR EE as well and it didn't turn out that way. However there was footage-unnecesary footage IMO that did nothing to advance the story- added to the Ammon Hen sequence.
Personally I see no reason for any expansion to the Helm's Deep battle. It was quite long and graphic enough as it stands. There were some thoughts posted soon after the movie came out about petitioning PJ about one aspect of the films or another all of which seem to have gone by the wayside as everyone has reconciled their feelings about the film. This is an issue, however that I feel would be worth addressing. There are enough character issues that need addressing and filling out without expanding an already too long battle sequence. IMHO any edition to this sequence takes needed time away from the other story lines. Now I have no idea how to go about formulating any such document but I did want to make everyone here aware of that information and get your thoughts on it.

And elsewhere on the "wouldn't know good acting if it came up and bit him on the..." (never mind) front

From a review in the Washington Post

Elijah Wood as the game little Hobbit Hero Frodo Baggins still relies entirely too much on a single expression: It's that stricken look as if he's just learned that not only dodn't he get into Harvard, he's just been banned from ever setting foot in Massachusetts. It's not really acting, it's face making. Here's how you do it. First SKY BLUE CONTACTS (excuse me?) Then in front of a mirror make your mouth into an open square. Flare your nostrils. Wrinkle that brow. Really, really squish it up good. Open your eyes to about f/1. Tighten your throat. Suck in your cheeks. There, you are now indistinguishable from the bearer of the one True Ring.

And now back to our regularly scheduled programming :)

Enaiowen - I've agreed with most everything you've said up until now, but here our opinions differ. I loved the extra scenes in the EE!

Merry and Pippin got to actually fight back, and weren't just carted off like two sacks of potatoes!

And Boromir fought longer and harder, against greater odds it seemed! After seeing it for so many times that I no longer teared up when Boromir died, I cried the first time I saw it on the SE, because the added material made it all the more poignant for me.

I found on the EE that the extra battle material added back in was primarily character driven - Aragorn saving Boromir from the cave troll, Aragorn and Co. pulling on the CT's chain so he couldn't stamp on Sam.

So IMHO, I'm trusting PJ to add similar scenes to TTT EE, ones that are meaningful from a character standpoint.

But I may be a bad person to ask, because, while I don't go to movies to watch battles, I believe in my first review of TTT I said I would go back and watch it over and over just to see Helm's Deep. I found it amazing and moving and splendiferous. And I'd love to see more of it.

But that's just my opinion..;)

Yes, Narya. I would agree with you about the scenes you've mentioned. I don't know, those somehow seemed to belong and didn't feel "added". They were exactly as you have described them-character material. I didn't see them as "battle material"
What I expect would have pushed the rating up are more things like Lurtz licking his knife. I didn't see a need for that at all. And unfortunately the quote I read is not encouraging. I am still hunting down the original article. I think it was on TORC, but the site is timing out on me tonight.

Anyway this is what I was referring too.

We've filmed some heads and limbs being chopped off which we've taken out. We'll probably put those back into the DVD which will have an "R" rating.

I don't exactly dislike Helm's Deep. I agree that it is extremely well done and I also find parts of it quite moving-but it's things like the children suiting up for battle and "Now for wrath, now for ruin, now for a Red Dawn!" The amount of actual fighting does seem more than sufficient to me, and I for one would hate to see any of the character moments that various posters have mentioned sidelined in favor of more graphic violence.

I too hope that any expansion there would be more in the lines of what you've mentioned and what I also liked about the FOTR EE but to tell you the truth I really didn't find character lacking
at Helm's Deep. There were already some of the most beautiful moments of the film there. They spent a great deal of time on that particular piece and it shows. I'm not really sure what sort of FOTR type bits could be added. Of course I will be the first to admit that I don't read that part of the book all that closely (no Hobbits you know) so maybe there are things missing that I don't know about. :)

I am not from the UK so I could be wrong about this, but I seem to remember that when the rumor arose that the FOTR DVD might be rated differently in England from the original film there was a big flap (at least on the Internet) about that, because--if I recall this correctly--DVDs in Britain MUST carry the same rating as the original theatrical release.

In the end of course the FOTR DVD was rated the same as the theatrical film.

But if there is such a law (and someone from the UK could no doubt enlighten me about that), wouldn't that tend to discourage the addition of any extra scenes that would gum up the marketing works there?

And I agree, there's enough Helm's Deep. Wonderful stuff, but we all know what other stuff was filmed that we're longing to see. In an interview Sean Astin said they filmed the scene where Sam watches Frodo sleeping and sees "a light shining through him"--what I wouldn't give.......

I have to admit that I, too, loved everything they added into the EEDVD of FOTR except for the extra Lurtz stuff, especially the knife-licking. That was just gratuitous IMHO, though hubby liked it. :rolleyes: He saw it as a gesture of intimidation on Lurtz's part. Well, okay. But did the film need it?


Originally posted by Flourish

In an interview Sean Astin said they filmed the scene where Sam watches Frodo sleeping and sees "a light shining through him"--what I wouldn't give.......
*GASP!* They filmed this? Oh. Oh. It must be in the EE DVD. Oh, please, PJ! My heart's all aflutter...

"He's like that and sometimes it shines through but I love him whether or no"


More Helm's Deep

I'll take Frodo and Sam for 1000 please. ;)

[]rant[]

BunnieBugs:
Gratuitous, Yep that's how I would describe it too. Good for shock value-did nothing to improve the film or advance the story.
That unfortunately seems to be the type of material they were discussing in the article I read and exactly what I don't want to see happen. PJ has commented several times that they have hours upon hours of battle footage from Helm's Deep so I wouldn't be surprised at them wanting to add more but the fact of the matter is there is nothing that Helm's Deep needs especially not more fighting and certainly not at the expense of the rest of the story.

[]rant off[]

:confused: Wonder if the "shining through" scene is the same one where Sam is discussing Frodo with Gollum :confused:





Edit:
Oh gosh, just noticed that my status has changed from Jr. Member to Member :cool:

I think we may have already got the 'light shining through' scene, but without the commentary from Sam. Have you looked at Frodo's face as he is sleeping in Ithilien, just before Gollum dumps those rabbits in his lap? There is a pure luminescence to the way the sun is shining on him - I'm positive it isn't accidental.

And with that lovely thought in my head, I'm finally going to bed!

Narya,
Yes, he is absolutely beautiful there. But then when isn't he? :D
I do hope there's more to the scene than that though.

A girl can dream can't she?

I can finally have an avatar (Yea!) but the image I want to use is too big. Where do ya'll find yours and how do you get them to the right size? I fear I am woefully incompenent when it comes to images. :rolleyes: While I'm asking for help, how do you get an image to appear in the body of your message? Yep, woefully incompetent. That's me. Yes, indeed. :)

Goodnight all!
Enai

Flourish: AFAIK there is no law in the UK that says that a DVD must have the same classification as the original film. Indeed, DVDs and videos may be classified (or cut as a result) more stictly than cinema releases because:

Cinema audiences are more likely to have "chosen" to see the film and know what to expect
"In the home" viewing makes the possibility that some viewers may be below the age for which the work was classified greater.
DVD & video offer the possibility of freeze-frame, rewind, and frame-by-frame advance (as we all know!) thus allowing viewers to watch scenes out of context, while a cinema film can only be watched in the way originally intended.
UK law requires that the whole package be classified at the highest level applied to any element (the extras, commentary etc. are all looked at individually). The UK version of the FoTR SE DVD did carry the same classification as the film, but we didn't get the MTV Easter Egg because that would have pushed the classification up and (presumably) a marketing decision was taken to lose that element of the package in order to retain the lower rating and get higher sales. The same decision would have to be taken if additional Helm's Deep violence pushed the classification of the TTT SE DVD unacceptably high.

Take a deep breath. The Harem has been busy this morning and I come bearing gifts.





Warning; The image attached below contains serious ROTK spoilers




No really, I mean it BIG SPOILERS
















OK then here we go....

Ack! enaiowen beat me to it. Most excellent. That photo, along with another wonderful Frodo and Sam one, comes from the 2002 Return of the King calendar, and all 12 photos are here:

WARNING! ROTK SPOILERS! (http://hollywooddreamsonline.com/)

Ah, our first glimpse. :)

I know I haven't posted in ages, but the Angst Maven has spoken... THOSE SPOILERS ARE BEYOND BELIEF.... THAT is the scene I have waited since 1975 to see with my own eyes....

*Sigh*

Ariel

Maeg:
btw, Frodo's Ring obsession is portrayed in the latest "For your consideration" ad from New Line, I saw it over at CoE. I hope that one makes it over here soon;- it's really something.)

As you wish. :)

http://oscarwatch.com/FYC/images/twotowersfrodo.jpg

I'll include the other Frodo ad too:

http://oscarwatch.com/FYC/images/lotr_new.jpg

Some observations:

- New Line's campaigners are clearly aware of Frodo's extreme importance, which is why there're two ads featuring Frodo (what do you mean that's a biased opinion?)

- the actor nominees are listed according to billing, so Elijah's name comes first ;)

- there is no Best Actor nominee :eek: despite the fact that Aragorn/Viggo could have been put forward as a lead in this movie. So it looks like New Line is pushing the cast as an ensemble.


-----------------------------------------

Thank you enai and Elve ({{{Elve}}} -- where've you been? :k )! Never mind spoilers. These are to be seen!

http://hollywooddreamsonline.com/images/Return_of_the_King_Aprilsmall.JPG http://hollywooddreamsonline.com/images/Return_of_the_King_Decembersmall.JPG



-----------------------------------------


Too hyped up from the RotK pics to be able to form coherent sentences and join in the current discussion. :p Will come back to it later.

While I can still think ... enai -- if you click on 'quote' beneath my post, you'll see what I did to link the pics directly into the post. :) Meanwhile, congratulations on hitting 'Member' status, and I think tg will the best teacher for avatar pics. :D

tg ... too late for your e-mail discussion group, but I just remembered that PJ and co did discuss the shortened timeline for the movie vs the timeline in the book. They talk about it in the Director & Writers' Commentary - they couldn't afford to let 17 years pass by so they shortened it to a few months. They talk about various other things too. Can't really remember because now I'm stuck on thinking about RotK ... :o


edit after reading Ariel's post: To that I say, Amen.

Those pictures take your breath away, don't they?! The Choices of Master Samwise one gets my vote for next year's "For Your Consideration" ad. It is perhaps the most moving pic of all those from any of the films that I've seen so far..... Has anyone here bought the calendar??

Ghyste, thank you for clearing that up for me!:)

About Sean Astin's comment on the "light shining through" scene--it was made in the context of moments that didn't make it into the film for whatever reason, so I'm pretty sure it's not the one with the coneys.

I am in URGENT need of classes to improve my vocabulary so I can really express my feelings upon seeing those 2 pictures. All the words that come to mind seem totally inadequate, somehow.

Especially the F&S one; - oh, wow, is this really happening? I'm really going to see this? Oh, I can hardly wait!!!!! Oh, the angst!!

Thank you to everyone who posted on this. The only way this could be better would be if there were larger, clearer versions of those pictures out there somewhere. My nose has almost been squashed flat against the screen here, since I have been scrutinizing the F&S pic to find out if any cut-away spiderweb cords can be seen there.

My resolutions to not get all exited about spoilers and RotK pics, to not speculate about RotK, to adopt a very cautious "Wait and see" approach are just all soooo futile! I'll be walking a meter above the ground, come RotK.

From ainon
As you wish. Thank you! :k

From Flourish
Has anyone here bought the calendar?? Nope, but as soon as I find out where to get it, that store will have one less calendar available.


Elevensies, thank you for the information on Frodos clothes and backpack in TTT! :)
It's a little bit strange, though. Faramir let them collect all their gear after they were captured, obviously, but what happened afterwards? I have to think this through when I am not in a total daze from RotK goodness overload anymore.

Flourish, I think Frodo sleeping at the beginning of the stewed rabbit scene *could* possibly prove to be the "light shining through" scene, if they extended it a little bit and began that scene one minute earlier. Smeagol is gone, Frodo is sleeping all exhausted and bathed in light............ it could start with Sam silently regarding Frodo, contemplating the inner light, and then have him wander some steps away all overcome with feeling, to be found where he is at the beginning of the scene that we have seen. Pure speculation on my part, of course. But I'd love to see *that* in the EE TTT DVD!

Maeglian, again, you say exactly what I would... and believe me, there ARE no english words to express the depth of the feelings I am feeling over these pics... I know what I said, I know I was going to keep my hopes down.... but THOSE PICTURES!

Yes, I bought the calendar. The supplier was almost out - he has upped the price from $30 to $100 - and he will get it too... He is shipping it to me hopefully today... as soon as I get it I will scan pictures.

Edit: Torn has published a list of the scenes which will be put back into the SE DVD of TTT... if anyone is interested ;)

Spoilers for SE DVD of TTT

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According to TheOneRing.net this list is gonna be the scenes that will be displayed in the Extended DVD of TTT.• Arwen running up to Elrond's veranda in Rivendell in fear, saying 'You have the gift of foresight...'
• Gandalf the White telling Aragorn at night before Helm's Deep that Sauron 'fears what you may become'
• Faramir discovering Boromir's horn cloven in two as it washes ashore
• Arwen walking up towards the shards of Narsil while wearing a cloak similar to the one which she wears while leaving Rivendell
• Further shots of Merry and Pippin being guarded by the Uruk-hai at night
• Further shots of Eowyn standing outside the Golden Hall of Edoras
• Elrond stating the alliance of Elves and Men 'is over'
• Sam making greater use of the Elven rope given to him by Galadriel while travelling to Mordor with Frodo
• Further shots of Arwen and Aragorn together in the past
• The storyline of Arwen taking part in Helm's Deep, including shots of the Rivendell Elves arriving at Lothlorien and Arwen sleeping under falling leaves, was completely scrapped
• Further shots of Eomer's travels in the hunt of orcs or after being banished from Rohan
• Bilbo discussing the departure of Rivendell with Elrond and Arwen
• Saruman claiming he will soon become 'more powerful than the Lord of the Rings himself'
• Several scenes involving the two hobbits and Treebeard, including Merry and Pippin drinking the Ent Draught
• A beautiful soliloquy from Faramir post-battle with the Haradrim, where he asks rethorically 'I wonder what his name was, where his home is, his family. Was he really evil at heart, or did the Dark Lord deceive him, as he has deceived so many others? What lies or threats led him on the long march from his home?'
• More scuffling amongst the Uruk-hai and Orcs whilst in possession of the Hobbits
• Faramir showing Frodo and Sam a way out of Osgiliath through the sewers
• Saruman's speech that begins 'So Gandalf Greyhame thinks...'
• Ents participating in the battle of Helm's Deep
• Flashbacks to Boromir, Faramir and Denethor together
• Further footage of Frodo's scuffle with Sam
• The Uruk-hai invasion of the caves in Helm's Deep
• Eomer pulling Theodred out of some mud post-battle
• Aragorn releasing Theodred's horse Brego, the horse that would save him later, from it's stable
• A flashback to Boromir's death in FotR
• A council of Elves debating whether or not an alliance with Men is feasible
• Legolas scolding the stupidity of the Elves not to assist the race of Men with their fight against Sauron
• Eowyn about to slay an Orc in the caves - may appear in RotK
• Gimli smoking a pipe while resting on a dead orc - may appear in RotK
• Further shots of Gollum travelling to Mordor with the hobbits, including him ordering not to stop on a certain road and extensions to the cooked rabbit scene
• Flashback to Smeagol killing Deagol over the One Ring while fishing on the River Anduin - will appear in RotK
• Merry and Pippin discussing what will happen to them when the Uruk-hai find out they don't bear the One Ring
• Sam discussing the changes occuring to Frodo with Gollum while the Ringbearer is asleep
• Gimli exploring the beautiful caves under Helm's Deep with Legolas
• The Orcs of Mordor joining the band of Uruk-hai
• Aragorn conversing with someone at night while lying down in a Rohan camp I don't know if you had it up here before, but since you asked if there were going to be Huorns in the Extended DVD.




End SPOILERS

Ariel

Dear, dear colleagues...

Just made it back and have only begun to read, much less absorb, all the insights you have made available here. Truly, my work is cut out for me!

However, it certainly doesn't help my concentration to see those pictures from the calendar for RoTK. How can I engage my brain after that???

Hope you all had a Happy New Year, and that no pheasants were harmed in your celebrations! :D

See you soon.

Hi and welcome back, Vita! :)

And thank you, Ariel. :)

I've been thinking. And after visiting the Harem I know I'm certainly not the only one: That F&S picture doesn't look quite right for "Choices".... It's too light. And Frodo seems to be wearing something different from the One Shirt. And they both look somewhat scorched.... I think this could actually be a Mt. Doom scene.

Not that it matters! As long as that *is* in the film at all, I'm happy.... (that really tearfully angsty kind of happiness).

All right, as long as we're speculating anyway...

Originally posted by Maeglian

I've been thinking. And after visiting the Harem I know I'm certainly not the only one: That F&S picture doesn't look quite right for "Choices".... It's too light. And Frodo seems to be wearing something different from the One Shirt. And they both look somewhat scorched.... I think this could actually be a Mt. Doom scene.

I disagree. He's still wearing his braces in this shot, thought he seems to have lost his vest. And his shirt looks almost that dirty in the other shot of him with the Phial. Perhaps this is from "Choices," but is pre-digital grading. Who knows where the images for this calendar came from? If they're bootlegged, there's no telling what state they're in.

Oh, but I blew the picture up and sharpened the image.

And his right hand is definitely wrapped in a piece of grey cloth - like part of an elvish cloak. (Not just draped in cloth - wrapped in cloth).

And remember the conversation we had about which finger Gollum bites off. Well, the first three of his fingers are clearly visible here, but there is only a light smudge where his pinkie finger should be...

I'm definitely thinking Mount Doom here...

Unfortunately, I can't post to my imagemagician account from work, so I can't show the enlarged picture. I'll do it when I get home, if no one else has managed to in the meantime!

From Narya
Oh, but I blew the picture up and sharpened the image.I'd love to see it, especially the right hand, of course.

If the braces and the One Shirt *are* still there, then it's likely Choices or some promo for Choices ......perhaps Sam removed the vest, so that he could better check for a heartbeat? But then again, if Frodo's hand is wrapped in a cloak and one finger is missing.......

Uhm..... Here I go *again*!
Must.........Stop.........Speculating! :o

Evenin' All.

Hi to Flourish and enaiowen!


Wow!

Those new pictures are tantalising, aren't they?! I know I said I wanted to stay spoiler-free for ROTK, but it's hard to resist these! :D Frodo bravely entering the Lair holding the Phial aloft; and that other one... :eek: Look at Sam's face. Look at Frodo lying so still. :( I'm nearly crying already! :(

I'm definitely thinking Mount Doom here...
I'm thinking the same Narya. It looks like that shot was taken outdoors, maybe after the event as it's very bright and dusty looking. Also wouldn't Frodo have a ripe sting-mark from Shelob very visable on his neck if it was from TCOMS? Can't see his fingers though... btw - I hope that PJ makes the nail of the fake finger look all bitten like EW's!! :p

TTT SE DVD talk already? Bring it on! ;)

It says in our paper that The War is on tomorrow night (it's on around 12pm, v late I thought) so maybe it's different from in England as I'm sure it's on on Wednesday down south? Remember and watch it Brit Facultiers!

L x

I found an mp3 of Mandy Moore's '17' from Try 17 - here it is here (it's okay, kind of laid back if you like). Maybe one day I'll find the video with Lij in it!

http://www.mp3****s.com/dd/archive/?dd=1&chart=archive&key=10499

That didn't work! It didn't work because those letters look like a naughty word :o Okay, if you want to download it just type it out from scratch - the missing letters are an s. And then the word 'hit'! :D *Shakes head with embarrassment*.

Narya's not the only one with Photoshop. :p After cranking the size brightness and contrast, I count 4 fingers. The thumb is probably hidden, the index finger looks to be wrapped in something but BUT, um, I can still see a finger shape underneath... And there appears to be a knife handle over Frodo's tummy. If he's got any implements, it's not Mount Doom..

Don't count on the lighting to determine if the characters are inside or outside. Those lights look like studio lights designed to highlight the characters expressions. PJ won't darken it with digital color grading for 6 months or so, right?

I'd like to know more about the source of this thing, because it strikes me as a spy/fake too. What does he mean by "in house?" I can't imagine that New Line let this voluntarily...at least not so soon...

This is officially killing me now (and it's only January!). Out of curiosity (because I couldn't even see his hand in that tiny picture), I blew it up myself, sharpened it, lightened it, yada, yada, yada...

...and now I'm just more confused! :confused: What I thought was a pair of braces may be something completely different, because, what is that thing going across his abdomen? And are you sure that's even his hand? And I don't see a "knife" or something in there...

Grrrr! I've stared and stared at it. A pox on bad resolution. :rolleyes:

Is it December yet? :D

I'm supposed to rush to work, but I had to stop in here because the question has really been bugging me ...

Kinda glad to see I'm not the only obsessed one. ;)

Where is that Frodo & Sam shot from?! can't see what he's wearing -whether that's still his shirt or not. No vest, and no cloak. Neither hobbit is wearing his cloak, in fact. Is that a bruise on Frodo's face, or just dirt? I see him holding something in his hand too, but can't make it out.

It's only the 7th day of January and already I'm going nuts trying to figure this pic out! And yeah, assuming this pic is the real cut, and not just SA and EW during rehearsal sans complete wardrobe.

Slightly bigger but not better pic from warofthering.net

http://warofthering.net/movies/photos/rotkcalendar/images/Return_of_the_King_Aprilsmall.jpg

Oh my. An audible gasp as I see images that have only been in my imagination for 36 years...Dear Frodo & Sam...

Just saw those pictures at TORn...

OH MY...

PLLEEAASSEE somebody sharpen them up and post!!!

Bring on the speculation!!!

The other pix at TORn look bootlegged to me...like early promo shots, especially Eowyn and Merry & Pippin together. But the Frodo & Sam!!!

Of course, this would be the day I have less than no time to post!

--Welcome back, Vita/peaceweaver!

--For "Frodo as I've always seen him," moments, his pose and his appearance in the Shelob's lair calendar pic are exactly as they are in the picture I've carried in my head all these years--but of the last time we see him use the phial (sans sword and with cleaner clothes).

--To weigh in on the F&S pic, since I've been so recently reminded that Frodo's wearing the orcish leather shirt at Mount Doom... ;) Is that possibly what he's wearing there?

--enai, from what you said about your avatar, I'm guessing your image is already a .gif, and the only problem is that it's a bit too big. If that's true, any image editing program that has a "resize" function should do it. The limit on this site is 50x50 pixels. If you don't have a program that can do that, there's a site that lets you do it for free: http://www.gifworks.com/ . There's also a site where both .gifs and.jpgs can be edited: http://www.myimager.com/ . I've used the first site in the past, but I'm not familiar with the second one.

Hello Faculty.

This is too much! Those pictures! How can I lurk effectively when there are pictures like that to discuss!

This is also a good opportunity to wish you all a HAPPY NEW YEAR

I have some reading to catch up on (about 20 pages worth!), so it may be some time before I pop up again. But thanks for all of your wonderful insights – they have helped me adjust to TTT :)

PS hi ainon!!
:) :) :)

Crossing fingers that it works.

I called this morning about those calendars and at the time they were still in stock for $30. The poor guy seemed just a bit overwhelmed by it all. He said he had had about 1300 hits on his site in the past year and just over 400 in the hour since those pictures hit the web.:D

Hi Notabluemaia, and it's so good to see you again, Estella Rose! :)

Congratulations on the avatar, Enai!

I've been doing some more staring at that right hand.... It is wrapped in something, and one finger *is* less visible, at least, than the others, he's holding something that looks like a piece of wood, or handle (??) that has been scorced on the one end. I still can't make out what he's wearing. Could those "braces" etc. be spiderweb? Or it could be the orc shirt. Or, for all we know, in the film he could be walking all the way to Mt. Doom in his old shirt, if the orcs leave it laying around.

The real thing, bootlegged, rehersal, or fake? I almost wish New Line would comment on them just to clear that up.

But at least to me both the F&S one and Frodo in Shelob's lair do look like the real deal, either from the film, or from rehersals (i.e. not just fakes, or composites).

Welcome back peaceweaver and estella rose! Hope you catch up and join us again soon, estella. It sure wasn't fair that you had to wait a whole week before getting TTT! :p

enai - that's a great avatar. :)

We're still obsessing over the F&S pic huh? Good, 'cos I spent the whole day pondering that and I'll be darned if I'm the only one. :D I went for viewing #6 today. Spent a lot of time trying to see Frodo's belt and breeches. Anyone has a nice screencap of his belt during FotR time? For the breeches there's this one from the classicxf site:

http://www.classicxf.com/images/FOTR/lothlorien/050amirror.jpg

From versaphile.com this TTT screencap gives a tiny (and hard-to-see) glimpse of his belt.

http://versaphile.com/caps/ttt/coney/coney03.jpg

and because I will shamelessly use any excuse to post this pic again:
http://warofthering.net/movies/photos/rotkcalendar/images/Return_of_the_King_Aprilsmall.jpg


I'm leaning towards ruling out Mt. Doom - because Sam is still quite clean and has his clothes, including vest. The missing cloaks is the bothersome thing. Harry Knowles has proven that he's a reliable source for real film info, and he'd described Frodo's (well, Sam's, if we stick to book canon) cloak at CoD. Sounds like the Lorien cloak to me, so at least one cloak must remain.

or maybe this is just a not-yet-in-complete-costume rehearsal, in which case we could speculate till December and still not narrow it down to a specific scene :p

-----------

Stuff I've noticed from viewings so far:

- Frodo's bag kinda flopping around as he climbs.
- Frodo's belt -- has he tightened it, as in, has there been loss of weight?
- Frodo doesn't like lembas, does he?
- how much rock-climbing footage do they have, I wonder? and all we see are those three scenes
- from what I could make out Faramir must have returned weapons and items to the hobbits just before they set out for Gondor (they had no weapons in HA). I guess Faramir doesn't expect the hobbits to be able to do much harm if either tried an attack on a big man, and would rather chance that than have the hobbits totally helpless in case of enemy attack.
- wondering how much of a fight Frodo put up when he was grabbed by the men in Ithilien? That scene did feel truncated, and I feel like there must have been a reason for Faramir to show up, look at them, and say "Bind their hands."

Ariel, when you get that calendar, could you scan all the pics? I'm starting to suspect that it's a half-faked thing cobbled together from three leaked frames and doctored promos. The M&P shot is pretty suspect.

(but the calendar is worth the money for the Sam&Fro pic alone. Mel is right -- that should be a For your consideration ad.)

I don't think it's Frodo's mutilated hand. I think it's just where the vest has been pulled down so Sam can listen for his heartbeat - it looks very similar the other side, down his other arm. Also the clothing looks like Frodo's own, only very dirty.

I wondered what the stuff on Frodo's hands was in one of the pics just posted, and whether it was spider's web. But of course its "wabbits"!

They don't look very rabbitish, though. I know they're probably very realistic soft toys as I hope no Oliphaunts or other beasts were hurt during filming, but in that shot they don't look like rabbits. More like ferrets or something. :p

Niphredil, well there *was* that real dead stag Aragorn brought back to camp in the Midgewater Marshes. If nothing else, that illustrated how voracious hobbits really must be; - if in the middle of fleeing the Black Riders Aragorn felt it necessary for them to skin and roast and eat a stag.

......there must have been a reason for Faramir to show up, look at them, and say "Bind their hands." Do you know how DIFFICULT it is to not give you the first and very obvious (yet somewhat less than decorous) reason that popped into *my* head? :o :o :rolleyes: :D Ahem..........

Ainon, thank you for the thorough research on the One Picture! I am not ready to pass judgement, I'll wait and see. I just hope some scene like that actually makes it into the theatrical version of RotK.

Hope you don't mind that I attach some comments to your observations from TTT:

- No, Frodo doesn't like lembas from the looks of it, he's chewing with less than enthusiasm, poor dear...... All the more pity that they never got around to eating that rabbit stew. I'm still sorry for that. (Yes I know I'm strange. :rolleyes: ) But then Sam keeps accusing Frodo of not eating or sleeping, so it's probably the Ring who's the main culprit and not the lack in diet variety.

- Sam, on the other hand, looks like he eats a fair share of lembas. I know with the shooting of scenes out of order that Sean Asting couldn't slim down as the story progressed, poor dear (I'm sure he wanted to!) but in some scenes he looks as if he's even gained weight. Then again, perhaps I'm mentally comparing to re-shoot scenes from FotR like the "I'm ready to go home" scene. He's slimmer there, FW and PB even comments on it in the SE DVD.

.....wondering how much of a fight Frodo put up when he was grabbed by the men in Ithilien? That scene did feel truncated. Yes, it really did. And we know they filmed Faramir musing over the dead man who fell from the oliphaunt; - not to mention all those "feisty Fro and worried Sam" pics that were made public before the film premiered. I would guess those had to do with some early and heated exchange between F and F; - which concludes with Faramir issueing the "tie-their-hands"- order. The EE DVD is *only* 10 months away......... ( :rolleyes: ) I hope those scenes are included there. Oh yes, I REALLY hope so!!

I guess Faramir doesn't expect the hobbits to be able to do much harm if either tried an attack on a big man, and would rather chance that than have the hobbits totally helpless in case of enemy attack. Well, you all know I have some small issues with the goings-on between Frodo and Faramir in Osgiliath, so I hope it's no surprise I have some thoughts on this as well? Of course it's kind of Faramir to give the hobbits means to defend themselves and leave them free to move. But if he has really decided to send the Ring to his father, what would make more sense would be for him to take the Ring into his own possession to safeguard it (he needn't *claim* it as his own, or at least he could tell himself that he wouldn't do that). Or at least he should keep Frodo especially close when a Nazgul shows up. They are walking into a city that is under attack. He should ensure more than anything else that the Ring is kept safe. Yet he lets it stay with someone who is making it very plain that he'll try to get away if he can, and who is acting weirdly on top of that, and he even leaves Frodo in a corner.....
All of this *is* probably meant to show that Faramir is very conflicted and hasn't *really* decided what to do yet, despite his words to the opposite..... it just doesn't seem altogether clear to me.

Also he may be telling himself that he is delaying the moment when Frodo loses the Ring out of kindness, having seen Frodo's reaction when someone comes close to taking the Ring. Then again, what does he imagine daddy is going to do once Frodo reaches Minas Tirith? It doesn't seem like very kind to contemplate leaving the hobbits to Denethor's mercy. And anyway, wouldn't any of Faramir's men be just as tempted as he himself is to take the Ring? Shouldn't he worry over one of them taking it on the way to MT?

But then, Faramir's decision to let Frodo go with the Ring after Frodo has demonstrated how close he is to falling completely under the Ring's influence, is still my pet peeve as that osgiliath scene now stands. If they include nothing else in the extended DVD, they simply must include some more motivation, action or dialogue that makes the true background for this decision clearer.

This just went up at TORn...

http://img-www.theonering.net/images/scrapbook/5807.jpg

I think that is Frodo's hand, but is it bandaged, or merely caught up in clothing?

Edit: Sorry, got it. I didn't realize the pic would take so long to load. Thanks, Elevensies.:p

I think it's the Choices of Master Samwise. There just isn't another moment in the book as heartbreaking as this picture.

The pics just went up, Flourish, so the website is probably bombarded. Right-click "show picture" and it should show up eventually.

Here's what looks like a hand with three fingers, zoomed and lightened...

http://www.imgmag.org/images/bananachunks/hand.jpg

--Edit--
Elda just pointed out in the harem that Sam is wearing Sting. This pic has to be "Choices". If that is somehow Frodo's hand, perhaps it's wrapped in websilk.:(

:swoons:

Thank you Elevensies! I can live happily on that one for quite some time! That is so incredibly moving and beautiful.

Well, Frodo has his own shirt and trousers, and Sam has Sting......... I still can't quite see what's up with the hand, perhaps it's his cloak or his waistcoat? EDIT: The mystery is solved !!! It's *not* a hand, it's light shining through the fabric of Frodo's shirt. His hand can be seen further down in the picture. All courtesy of patricia, over in the Harem. :)

Anyway, I think my vote is definitely in for "Choices" too, once they digitally grade it so it looks darker.
On the other hand, what *is* that line on the back of Frodo's neck; - is it just the hem of his shirt?

I don't think I have ever scrutinized any picture more thoroughly than this. :o

I wonder how on earth this was ever made public *now*, so soon? One could almost wonder whether someone at New Line had taken note of the slight disgruntlement voiced here and there in some fan communities about F&S in TTT............ :confused:



Edit: I managed to tear myself away from F&S to look at the Aragorn picture. It's so amazingly great! The sword, and the white three, and and..... wow! The costume and the (what's it called) gear of the horse, and the army behind him: I can't believe this! It's all too good to be true! Just 11 months to RotK, you say??

For some reason, my computer will not load that larger version of the Sam and Frodo image from RoTK, so I cannot contribute to the current speculation about what is being portrayed. That is one very moving picture, though.

I did want to chime in and say hello to all the new faces/avatars, old friends!

{{{Elwen}}} come back to the Lounge soon!

Oh and thanks to all who have posted links to the various interviews, etc. I’m lighting candles for more bandwith at Elve’s site.

I’ve seen TTT a second time, now, and have mellowed. I liked it better this time; I found it more moving, more logical and more profound than the first time I saw it. The discussions here are helping me to understand the rationale for the changes from the book, and to focus on the cinematic logic that drove PJ & co in their adaptation of the book. Just another reason I love you all! :k

A couple of comments about the Frodo/Faramir relationship:

I, too, was shocked to see/hear Frodo lie to Faramir about Gollum, instead of acknowledging his “gangrel companion.” But the more I think about it, the more I think film Frodo was trying to protect Gollum, in line with the film’s take on Frodo’s sympathy/empathy for Gollum. Wenham’s Faramir gets big points from me for the response he gives to Frodo’s lie.

Maeg: fascinating comments about the parallels between Boromir’s temptation by the ring and Faramir’s temptation. Have you noticed that the music is the same as when Boromir holds the ring’s chain on Caradhras?

I’m still not sold on the transformations made to Faramir’s character (although I didn’t think he was on screen enough!). I have become more reconciled to film Frodo’s character, though. (hmm, wonder if the amazing performance by EJW has anything to do with this?)

Patricia lightened the photo, and her results are a bit easier to get open than the picture at TORN (I'm still at 13% downloaded... who says people aren't fanatical about Frodo again?).

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/ppitts/LotR%20Pics/RotK_Sam%26Fro_Lightened.jpg

Mel

I don' t know. I come back here after a week away from KD with the 'flu (sneeze - cough!) to find new pics from ROTK!!! And what pics they are!:) :) :) For some reason, only the top half of that big one of Frodo and Sam that Elevensies so kindly put up above is showing up for me. Can't see the hand or Sting. Oh well, just looking at their lovely, angsty faces is enough.

Firstly - a warm welcome to Flourish, and hi again to those I haven't seen in here for a while - Ariel, erendis, enaiowen, estella rose, Notabluemaia, niprhedil, vita and anyone else I haven't mentioned.

Talking of those I haven't seen for a while - Has Deluby deserted us?

Great discussions of TTT, which I still have only seen once (shame on me). It will probably be the end of Jan/early Feb before we get the chance for viewing number 2 - finances dictate at the moment - darn it! That said, I haven't anything worthy to add to all the wonderful insights and opinions expressed here lately, but I have really enjoyed catching up on all of your views and ideas regarding Frodo/Sam/Gollum/Faramir aspects of the film. Makes for great reading. I'm sure I'll put in my 2 cents worth when I feel more qualified to comment - after a few more trips to the cinema. Why oh why don't they just release the DVD NOW and have done with it?:rolleyes:

I'll just repeat how impressed I was with Elijah's performance on first viewing. He was just terrific!!

What I was NOT so impressed with when I came back here were those pics of the pheasant shoot!!!:( :( :( Nice enough pics, but hated the situation in which they were taken. Now, I know everyone is entitled to their opinion, and that goes for EW, Dom, Billy and the rest, but I must confess to being very disappointed to see Elijah involved in something like that - and after he seemed so relaxed with and concerned for those animals when he appeared on the Jay Leno show just before Christmas. I know I'm a veggie, (heck, I save spiders from our dog, Holly, on a reglar basis!) but I really do hate the thought of any living creature being killed just for the 'thrill' of it. Lets hope that this 'shoot' turns out to be a one-off thing - perhaps he was along just along for the ride so-to-speak and wasn't actually doing any shooting himself (Please, God, don't destroy my good opinion of him)- and hope that he doesn't go on to pursue this sort of thing on a regular basis. I can't believe this seemingly sensitive, good-natured, polite young man (who made a film he admitted had a poor script simply so that he could work with dolphins) would gain pleasure from seeing a beautiful creature shot down.:rolleyes: :(

Rant over!!!

Didn't mean to go on about that quite as long as I did - sorry.

Rant definitely over!!!

Luthiea - thanks for the info about 'The War' being on BBC 1 in the UK tomorrow (Wednesday). I checked and it's on here in the midlands at around 11.30pm. Seems a strange time to put it on. I mean, there's no bad language or sexual content - I would have thought it could have been on earlier. I do have 'The War' on DVD - I got it in a sale last year at a ridiculously low price of £6.99. I love it, and I would certainly rate Elijah's performance as Stu among his very best work. Tg, (glad you're feeling better) I also had never thought of Stu and Lidia as being twins. I can't remember it ever being referred to in the film itself, though Lidia did say she was twelve years old in the voice-over at the beginning when she and Stu are in the truck. I just took it that they were brother and sister a couple of years apart in age - though it is difficult to tell if Stu would be younger or older than his sister. It was made in 1994 - so EW would have been around thirteen at the time.
btw, Luthiea - I taped 'Flipper' too, (couldn't resist it) but have not watched it yet!

On the subject of Elijah's earlier work - sorry to go OT - there are still several things I have yet to see. I was thinking that to make the long, long wait until the Two Towers DVD comes out more endurable, I would perhaps buy 'The Good Son' and 'Huck Finn' on DVD if poss from Amazon. (I'm sure I have seen 'The Good Son' advertised in DVD format) I will probaby get one around March and the other in June, just so I have something 'new' of EW's to watch and appreciate. Tg, I know you are familiar with these two films, so any thoughts/advice on which to go for first etc. would be much appreciated. And anyone else's opinion on either/both of these would be gratefully received! I also have not yet seen Oliver Twist - any opinions on that?

Oh well, that's enough of me for now. Normal service can be resumed.

Blossom takes her 'flu bugs over to TTT thread in the Trilogy in order to catch up - again!

Bye.

A new, larger, very clear shot of the Sam and Frodo ROTK pic just showed up, and I'm attempting to attach it here. Let's see if it worked...

My vote is for "Choices" for sure, now.

Edit: Oh, never mind. I see that the pic I was trying to post is the same one they have up at TORN. Memo to self: read all the posts before getting too excited and jumping in half-cocked. :rolleyes:

And by the way, that is definitely not his hand. It's his shirt with the light shining through. ;)

Elevensies picture still won't load for me, but I saw the one at TORN and the one that Mel posted that was lightened. After two days of scrutinizing the thing and trying to make out what was what and where it would fall in the film, I finally just sat back and looked at it -- and proceeded to get all choked up.

ROTK is going to kill me.

Bunnie - that link you put up worked for me. Much clearer, thanks. But take another look at elevensies large version of the same pic above - it is now showing the full picture for me!!!:) :) :) Hope it works for you, too.

It's still difficult to tell, but it does rather look like Fro's fingers wrapped in some sort of cloth, though just below that in a very shadowy area between Sam and Fro's thighs (!!!) there is what looks suspiciously like Fro's right hand - or at least it looks like the thumb of his right hand. Then again, it could just be the folds in Sam's breeches! :rolleyes:

And is it me, or does Fro still have the chain around his neck there?

Blossom

Ah, well, we've spent the last three pages in the harem hashing this out. Consensus seems to be that it's "Choices", and Frodo's right hand is down by Sam's leg, not over his waist. Can't really make out what that is, but it could be some of Frodo's shirt caught up in websilk or something.

I don't see a chain around Frodo's neck, nor Sam's. But at this angle I don't think I would be able to see either.

This looks to me like Sammy's laying our "dead" boy down gently as he prepares to leave him and continue the quest alone. Whenever it is, it's crazy beautiful, and I'm crying again. :(

Originally posted by Elevensies

I don't see a chain around Frodo's neck, nor Sam's. But at this angle I don't think I would be able to see either.

This looks to me like Sammy's laying our "dead" boy down gently as he prepares to leave him and continue the quest alone. Whenever it is, it's crazy beautiful, and I'm crying again. :(

You're probably right about the chain, Elevensies.

As for the rest of the above quote:

WHAAAAAAAH!!!!

ME TOO!

I wanted to share the larger version of this picture. I couldn't figure out how to post it directly to the thread so I am attaching it.
It's been one of my favorites for the longest time. He just looks so lovely there and I thought a nice sweet smile might be just the thing about now.
Looking at him though, I don't know if it makes me feel better...or worse :(

A few pages back there was a question about Stu and Lydia's relationship in The War. They were twins. It is mentioned somewhere in the movie when one of the two talks about having to share a womb with the other. I guess I will have to watch it again to identify where I saw that...I will let you all know.

Scuze me, faculty...

MsU!!!!!!!!!!!!! :k:k:k

Been missing you, lass!!! Drop me an eMail!


(((((((((((Faculty))))))))) As you were. ;)

Can everyone stand another version :p ? I took Patricia's lightened one and used Photo Expert to convince it that it'd been over-exposed--which put a bit more shading into it but didn't put back in all the marks, etc., Patricia's work had taken out. I haven't done any other messing around with it in the large pic, although the avatar took some work to get the picture clear enough to see when it's that small.

http://www.imagemagician.com/images/tgshaw/outtakes/RotK_Samx26Fro_Lightened0.jpg

On Frodo's lie to Faramir, maybe I wasn't as upset as some others were because I figured book-Frodo saying Gollum was a "chance companion on the road," was pretty untrue already. And, yes, Vita, I always assumed the reason movie-Frodo lied was to protect Gollum. Could I ask why you thought he was doing it before you came to that conclusion, as that's the only reason that ever occurred to me?

----------------------------------

Blossom--first of all, I don't think talking about any of Elijah's work is ever off-topic here :) . Regarding Huck Finn and The Good Son--If you're getting DVD, you might want to go for Huck Finn first because of the director's commentary which talks some about Elijah's acting. As far as I know, The Good Son isn't available on DVD. I'm wondering if that could change now that more and more people are seeing it as an "Elijah Wood movie" rather than a "Macauley Culkin movie." When I went to Amazon.com to check on DVD status for it, the page reminded me of the one for Ash Wednesday, where the top three "People who bought this also bought..." movies were Elijah's, with number four going to Ed Burns. On the page for The Good Son VHS, there were nine "If you like this movie, you might also like..." suggestions. All nine of them were Elijah's. I know Amazon has some way of gearing the things it suggests to what you've shopped for there before, but, still, not too bad. :)

Personally, I didn't care for Oliver Twist as much as I did either of those. IMHO, the directing leaves something to be desired, and the story changes from the book don't work as well for me as the ones in Huck Finn. Not that it's a bad movie, but I like the other two better. If you want to see what else I liked and didn't like ;) , you can go to the Wood Movies (http://www.members.tripod.com/afewwords_tgs/id62.htm) page on my website. You can link from there to what's available at Amazon.com, and if you link from the site and buy something, I get a tiny amount of money :rolleyes: -- I like to add the links more for the convenience it gives people reading the page than for the monetary rewards, which are pretty microscopic :) . If you click on a link it takes you directly to the item. -- I'd stopped bringing that up at Imladris and CoE, because both of those sites were using the same program to raise money to keep the site going, but since KD isn't doing that, I'll mention it again. :)

I've added a few new pages of screencaps to the Friends (http://www.members.tripod.com/afewwords_tgs/id83.htm) part of the Totally Tolkien (http://www.members.tripod.com/afewwords_tgs/id17.htm) section of the site, as well as a couple of new essays. So anyone who hasn't been there for awhile, please drop in--I won't make you buy anything ;) .