Congratulations on passing 6000 posts! :)

About the St. Gabriele film...... Thank you for the information on that, Moondancer! :)

I can't believe this to be more than a (probably unfounded) rumour, though. Those directors, - it seems to me someone just put together a small general list of well-known directors who might do that kind of film. I really can't picture Mel Gibson throwing himself at another religious film after all the serious hazzle he's had with the current one (I don't remember the name of his film).

I read what the link had to say about the saint in question, but it didn't give me an impression at *all* about what was so special about this person and his life that he became a saint. Having a religious experience, going to a monastery, dying young....there must be more to it than that? What would be the *story* of the film?

Still, I'm hoping this isn't true, as I agree it very likely would be typecasting.

Whiteling-- :D LOL :D at the 6000-post "scene." Wow, that last thousand went by fast--thanks to all the new people!! :k

Originally posted by Maeglian
....there must be more to it than that? What would be the *story* of the film?
I don't know anything at all about this saint (which is actually a somewhat unusual situation :o ). I'm curious about what the original translation meant when it said he was braided [tied?] to the Italian national history of independence--and if there might be something of a story there?

[b]Still, I'm hoping this isn't true, as I agree it very likely would be typecasting.
Possibly, although that would depend somewhat on what other roles he takes. First he'll be playing an unscrupulous geek in ESOTSM, then someone who gets involved with hooligans, and then a penguin. Maybe by then he'll be ready to take on another saint :) . Hooligans might be a more limited release, at least in the U.S., but I'm sure his characters in ESOTSM and Happy Feet will be seen by a lot of people. But I agree that it's too unsure to even worry about it at this point--which doesn't mean of course that we don't want to get any rumors as soon as possible ;) , so thanks for passing it on, Moondancer!

BTW, I checked out the source of that "Sample Abstract," and it's for a meeting about atmospheric chemistry to be held in Christchurch in September. I'm afraid, though, that the group has been taken in by a scam artist :( ;) . When directing people to the sample abstract, the site says it was found in a previously unknown appendix to LotR. But it's obviously taken from the plot of the movie, so must be a very recent forgery. I hope they didn't pay too much for it ;) .

---------

Serena and anyone who might be interested in more on "secondary creation," etc., the set of essays I have on my website on Is Middle-earth Real? (http://www.frodolivesin.us/id105.htm) gets into the topic quite a bit. And as long as someone's seen all three LotR movies, there aren't any spoilers in them for the book. You might run across some things you're not familiar with, such as entwives and Crickhollow :) , but there's nothing that really takes away any "surprises" from the book.

6,000 posts!

:cool: :cool:

We've sure come a long way!

http://home.ripway.com/2004-1/63714/fotr.jpg

http://home.ripway.com/2004-1/63714/bst.jpg


http://images.usatoday.com/life/_photos/2004/2004-02/12-wood-eternal-inside.jpg


And to those who're feeling screencappy, we have the newest addition to DVD ;)

Click on image to get to the info page.

http://www.dvdfanatic.com/covers/goodson.jpg (http://www.dvdfanatic.com/dvd.php?id=goodson)

This here is the review:

http://www.dvdfanatic.com/review.php?id=goodson

Hi!!! have a little question to you in resent pictures
EW is wering a silver ring at his right hand i wonder if it a
gift from Franka or has he a new girlfriend this is mayby
old i have some remeberings of reading it somewere but
i cant find it.

I saw try 17 again to day(home from work with a flew,
seeing every EW movie i got) i just wondering,when did he get
together with Franka before,meanwhile,after?
Becuse you really can see and feel the cemstrie between them
in the movie!!!:rolleyes:

First, Happy Birthday, Achila! So glad you found your way here soon enough for us to be able to say that :) .


wood--I don't know if he wears it all the time, but during the long interview in Central Park Elijah did say he still wears a ring Franka gave him because he likes the inscription on it: "If not now, when," IIRC. (Which doesn't seem to be something he particularly needs to be reminded of... ;) ) They met while making Try 17, but they're both so private about their personal lives that it's not easy to tell just when they started and stopped being a "couple."

ainon--Yep, The Good Son should hit my mailbox today or tomorrow :) :) . It's okay that the reviewer doesn't like the movie, especially since pretty much everything he says about it is true :rolleyes: . I could even forgive him for saying that Elijah has the same expression through the whole movie, even though he doesn't, because he does have that expression... well, a lot... But to say that he has that same expression throughout all of FotR and TTT is, of course, completely uncalled for :rolleyes: , ridiculous :rolleyes: , and silly :rolleyes: .

I guess he is trying to make a joke... :rolleyes: I have the feeling he wouldn't understand why I'd buy this DVD just to be able to screencap Mark following his aunt down the stairs, even if it included absolutely nothing else... (which, of course, is not uncalled for, ridiculous, or silly--right? Right? ;) :eek: ).

Hey, 6000 posts since July 2002? That's an average of nearly 11 posts a day! :cool: (That is, assuming Pearl's Jul 10, 2002 post was Post No 1. Wonder what happened to the preceding thread? Disappeared into a parallel universe, or just lost in the mists of time ....?)

Happy birthday, Achila !!!!!!!!!!! (upside-down candles)

Love that pic and its caption, Whiteling :D

[Edit: wrote this before seeing Tg's simulpost!] Hmm, that "Good Son" review isn't what I'd call flattering. True, the movie has its faults (totally implausible story, but then that's what the author wrote), but it's nowhere near as bad as the review suggests. And Elijah's acting was (of course) far better than just adequate - most reviewers pointed out that he outclassed Mac in this one. And (yawn) yes, we get the EW monoexpression fallacy served up yet again - do these people actually watch the movies, or do they content themselves with looking at the posters? :confused:

But what's really interesting is that Elijah has suddenly become the star of this film a good 10 years after it was made! There are various DVD covers, but all of them now feature EW as well as Mac. And amazon.co.uk lists EW as the lead actor, followed by Wendy Crewson (that may just be one of amazon's many quirks, of course). Good to know marketing execs have finally twigged that Elijah Wood movies sell. (I bought a French DVD of "Bumblebee" recently - called "La mémoire volée" - which had a special sticker on it saying the equivalent of "See Elijah Wood as you've never seen him before".)

Hope the author of a film encyclopedia I saw in Washington DC in 2002 has been eating his words. It was around 6 years out of date, but the entry about the then teen actor Elijah Wood compared him with his contemporary Macauley Culkin and remarked on the "fact" that EW, with his "chipmunk face" (!!!) is - or was - "less distinctive looking" than Mac. :confused: That's what you might call putting both feet in it.
Up to your neck.

from tgshaw:
what the original [bad] translation meant when it said he was braided [tied?] to the Italian national history of independence

It would be nice to know, wouldn't it? There's an Italian verb "intrecciare" that can have both the literal and the figurative meaning of "braid" or "interweave", so maybe the original Italian meant the monks' lives were bound up in or interwoven with independence history. And the "risorgimental stories" are presumably about the 19th century Risorgimento movement that liberated Italy from Austrian rule. The whole thing looks like a typical case of machine translation :eek: But there may be a good story behind it. It would be nice to think so :)

[Edit: thanks for the link to your essay, Tg! Am reading it avidly :) ]

Happy birthday, Achila!
:)
I hope you're having a fantastic day and great new year in your life.

** The Good Son **




The Good Son never didn't really get good reviews, did it?
It's got 10% on the tomatometer (rottentomatoes.com): pretty bad result!
The bulk of the bad reviews are for Macauley Culkin (but Culkin was the main star back then). But, he does get some good reviews also (he's convincing in some of the very dark scenes, so they say).
A part of one review:
just can't believe the accusations of cousin Elijah Wood (the kid in this movie that can act)
And the same review ends with:
Bad as it is, The Good Son still gets two stars due to the fact that, yes, Macaulay does die at the end.
I really feel sorry for Macauley. Not only did he have a lousy childhood, he had to endure a cruel press.
Yesterday, there was a program on child stars on our tv.
Apparently, he attempted a comeback but failed (I've never heard of the comeback movie). I was glad to see that Elijah Wood wasn't part of that program because it was rather depressing (drugs, abuse, kids being pushed by their parents, failed careers, messed up grownups,...)

One review says that Elijah is a fine, young actor but that they decided to focus too much on his big blue eyes.
Most of the reviews I've read about Elijah is that they did not use his acting skills enough.
Another review:
In some respects, I'm afraid that Wood may have the hardest task in this film: It's tough having to hold your own on stage against Mephistopholes! The structure of the role requires Mark to wise up only after *we* have been clued in. It requires him to be suckered into unwise attacks against the bad guy. In most such tales, this sort of role would come off as that of a stooge, a patsy. (Yes, a "mark.")

But the age of the protagonists allows THE GOOD SON to transcend its genre. Mark is a *kid*! He behaves in a perfectly reasonable, mature way *for a kid*. When Henry is setting him up for a fall, it's not reasonable to expect a 12-year-old to think, "Hmm, I've read 'Sitting in the Catbird Seat'! I'd better approach this cautiously!"

Just as Henry's evil is within the scope of a kid's skills, so Mark's mistakes are within the scope of a kid's inexperience.

Wood's strength in this role is directness and straightforwardness. Where Henry is "in control," Mark is honest and open. Yes, he has a tendency to Wounded Innocence. And I think the director (Joseph Ruben) cultivates it too carefully: the turned-around cap helps frame the face into just a bit *too much* wide-eyed innocence. Wood can do the job without photographic underscoring
I would say that most of the negative remarks about Elijah's performance in this movie are not directed at little Elijah himself but at the choices the director made. They seem to agree that Elijah did have more potential than we got to see in this movie.




*** / The Good Son ***

Originally posted by serena
But what's really interesting is that Elijah has suddenly become the star of this film a good 10 years after it was made! There are various DVD covers, but all of them now feature EW as well as Mac. And amazon.co.uk lists EW as the lead actor, followed by Wendy Crewson (that may just be one of amazon's many quirks, of course).
Of course, Elijah wasn't on the front of the VHS version, although there's a small shot of him on the back. If you just took the movie itself without connecting any "names" to it, IMHO, Elijah would be the star--after all, his character's the protagonist and the story is told from his POV. The only reason I can see that Macauley would have gotten the title is that his name was more commercial at the time. So, now Elijah's name is more commercial, so the emphasis gets switched: business as usual, I'd imagine :rolleyes: . There are some movie execs that still need to get a clue, though: the ones responsible for, say, Chain of Fools :confused: ???

I get a kick out of browsing around Elijah's movies at amazon. The nice thing about their pages is that they tend to work from real numbers--you know, "People who bought this DVD also bought..." and on almost all of Elijah's movies--even when he's not the star--most of the "also bought" movies are his :) . Black and White is an exception, which might not be a bad thing... I had to laugh, though, when recently TAMTSNBN* showed up on the B&W page :D -- some people are evidently filling the gaps in their EJW collections, but that's quite a combination of "genres"!

...but the entry about the then teen actor Elijah Wood compared him with his contemporary Macauley Culkin and remarked on the "fact" that EW, with his "chipmunk face" (!!!) is - or was - "less distinctive looking" than Mac. :confused: That's what you might call putting both feet in it.
Up to your neck.
When the subject came up recently about how Elijah's one of the limited number of child stars who turned out to be a good-looking adult, I was thinking that his childhood appearance doesn't have the "cutesy" look that a lot of child actors have, and I'd include Macauley in that. I don't know quite how to explain it, but IMHO it has something to do with features that are considered "cute" on a boy, but wouldn't be considered "handsome" on a man. When the "cute kid" grows up, he's still going to have, say, the "cute little pug nose" or the mouth and/or ears that are too big for his face (just as examples) he had as a kid, and sometimes features like that don't age well, if you know what I mean. Elijah was certainly a good-looking child (!), but I think his more "classic" looks carried him into adulthood better than some of his "cute" peers. That may have also been one of the reasons (along with his talent!) that he acted in more adult movies than children's movies.

Moondancer, I pretty much agree with what that reviewer said about Mark acting reasonably for a child--it's the adults in the movie I find hard to believe. And there's one fact in the review that I hope other directors pay as much attention to as PJ did: "Wood can do the job without photographic underscoring." :)

--------

*Translation for recent arrivals: "The Animated Movie That Shall Not Be Named" (http://www.frodolivesin.us/id144_tt_t.htm) :eek:

::: cantering in on necrotic equine named "portrayal of child abuse" :::

So many good things said; so little time to respond. :(


RF topic: Heavy stuff. Might want to skip this one.






Re RF: If we take the movie literally, we *are* left with Robbie killing himself. Sadly, out of all of the coping mechanisms that kids use to survive such situations, suicide or even accidental death is used way too often. Odd to think of "suicide" as a way to "survive", but I think that way too often the person is not trying to die, just trying to stop the pain. Insisting that it never be portrayed honestly is, I think, a mistake. It exists.

If I had kids, I may allow them to watch RF, but not alone, and not without some on-going discussion. I don't think it should be up to movies to instruct kids in appropriate ways of coping. I think it should be parents or trusted adults to help kids to realize what's a good way to cope, and what isn't - to see beyond the immediacy of the pain.

end RF stuff.


AIW/T17 spoilers:



wood said:
I saw try 17 again to day(home from work with a flew,

A likely excuse!!! ;)

seeing every EW movie i got)

Yeah!? Home sick and watching EW movies? Well, it'll either kill you or cure you, but what a way to go! ;)

Becuse you really can see and feel the cemstrie between

I got exactly the opposite impression! I about choked when Jane said that she and Jones were too much alike. Huh?!? I just didn't see it. What I saw was an older young woman and a very young late adolescent kid and they seemed like a terrible mismatch. The only thing I could see is that Jane taught Jones how to use his backbone, and Jones smoothed out the knobs and spikes on Jane's personality (IOW, brought out her inner Hobbit). I think she also gave him love and affection and emotional support, which he seems to have been sadly lacking.



SPOILERS: TBFA:


I watched this again last night. Well, it's evident that I didn't give the story a chance the first time around. I remember that Barney spent a lot of time spaced out or unconscious (well, he *does* look like an angel when his eyes are closed! :p ).

This time around, I started noticing more. For example, the last scene, where Barney says "hello", it's evident that he doesn't remember her but here again we have a sequence of microexpressions that show us what's going through his mind (especially as his gaze shifts from her face downwards :o ).

I also caught more about the scene where he finally lets go of the Bumblebee (with dead Mazzo in it) and is left standing in the doorway. It was a bookend to the scenes where Barney was walking down the hall with his arms out like he was flying. In the window scene, he puts his arms out and looks toward the horizon like he still wants to fly, but then takes hold of the wooden frame with both hands still outstretched and bows his head in a crucifix-like gesture of surrender. It was agonizing to watch that sequence of expressions and his body language.

Is it at all significant that Elijah has been in two movies about memory erasure, and two movies about building a vehicle with the probable intention of suicide? Is it just that producers and directors could make more complex stories because of him?





Re: Saints and the Communion Thereof:

I'm still trying to digest this one. :) Communion of the Saints is in the Apostle's Creed that we used when I was growing up, but it wasn't practiced, and nobody could really explain what it was - just what they thought it wasn't. It's an interesting thought that St. Tolkein ;) did some tweaking to get the right kid into the movies. Also interesting comments about "resonance".

Heck, I firmly believe that my old cat picked out my new cats - why not?!? ;D

As for typecasting, a lot of people apparently were upset that the "kid from Deep Impact" was playing Frodo and look where that ended up!! We may be underestimating the project (if it exists), the director, and The Lad Himself.


LOTR special on A&E: I got home at 10:20 so missed part of it, but I got the one at 2 am.

They included the scene where Sean talks about Elijah's eyes! Woo hoo!
:D

6000 posts:

11 posts per day? Average? I was told there would be no math...

My, my. Gabby bunch, aren't we!?! For myself, I've tried to keep it to no more than once a day.

Oh, my the internet is a wonderful thing!

~grumpy

Happy birthday, Achila!
Have a lovely day :) !

Sorry for a step-back, but I feel I have to add something to Serena's wonderful comment the other day....
Originally posted by serena
Maybe Frodo really does live! (No, seriously, many artists have talked about “discovering” their characters or artefacts or poems or compositions as if they themselves were archaeologists, not artists, and the objects were archetypes, not creations. So did Elijah tune into the archetypal Frodo and the archetypal Mikey and Nat and Stu?)

That is my idea of art, too. Picasso said: "I do not search, I find." This is at least true for me, art is finding, not inventing. It is really similar to archaelogy. You only can discover the hidden pictures/archetypes, "sleeping" in our deepest layers of being, there is nothing you could invent and there is no need for. Is is a finding process and a going into resonance work.
Tg put it beautifully:
That point of view is also very connected with his [Tolkien's] ideas on "subcreation" or "secondary creation"--that when something such as Middle-earth is created, it has a form of actual existence.
Yes, that's true. I my heart I know, that Middle-Earth is a real (whatever that means) place and Frodo lives.

Happy Birthday, Achila!

Oh, bummer. St. Gabriel is a victorian-era gent. And here I was starting to anticipate Elijah in particolored tights. (Hey! they were all the rage back in 14th century italy!)

But seriously, the story might lie in his conversion from "fashionable youth" to dedicated monk. Could be interesting, who knows.

Just found this silly little thing:
USA TODAY's Susan Wloszczyna asked Hollywood columnist Anne Thompson, E! Online celeb dirt-digger Ted Casablanca, Teen People's Laura Morgan and Adam Sternbergh of fametracker.com for career tips.

Their advice for our boy?
Advice: "Of the hobbits, Wood will be the one to pull himself out and distinguish himself from The Lord of the Rings because he already had an identity before," says Casablanca. "I just want him to get a tan."

Says Sternbergh, "It would be smart for him and the other hobbits to do some supporting roles to get them re-established as humans who wear shoes."

Get a tan? :eek: :eek: :eek: NOOOOO! And ruin that lovely hide of his? :rolleyes: :rolleyes: What a dumb notion. Well, at least Casablanca doesn't think he'll suffer from markhamillitis!

whole story is here (http://www.usatoday.com/life/movies/news/2004-02-11-lotr-career-counseling_x.htm)

Honey!

Plus all of his movies seems to have a Psychological quality to them.

The mind type movies he seems well suited for as he seems to be a Cerebral type of guy, not a full fleged action type hero. That must be why his better movies have to do with Mind Control or memory eresure.

The Suicide machines must be something else. It's as if some part of his mind doesn't fit with his physical body, and of course yu'll end up with Strange Suicide Solutions.

Happy Birthday, Achila!

http://www.oakridger.com/images/013101/Baltimore.jpg

A Lady Baltimore cake. Because... uh... because. :p

I'm not sure I buy Sheldrake's theory or not. I've always believed that the best authors are recording something that actually happened in another dimension - they're able to look through the dimensional walls with varied clarity, and they record what they see. Maybe Elijah can look through those same walls and establish a psychic connection with the character in question?

whiteling,
Love your 6000 post celebration pic - had to have hubby see it for the pun. ;)

ainon,
What's your third pic from?

Originally posted by serena
Hey, 6000 posts since July 2002? That's an average of nearly 11 posts a day! :cool: (That is, assuming Pearl's Jul 10, 2002 post was Post No 1. Wonder what happened to the preceding thread? Disappeared into a parallel universe, or just lost in the mists of time ....?)


Part of it is still over in the CoE Pony (you'd have to do a search to call it up - same name as here), but the rest of it got et when Imladris died. Unfortunately, it got hacked severely when it was moved from... my memory is failing me, no, wait, from Casting to the Pony. Or maybe the damage was done a few days earlier, but it was a tragedy indeed - lots of excellent posts gone, some of them from posters who've moved on but had interesting things to say I'd love to reference sometimes. *sigh*

And I'm not going to do the math for average posts daily, but it's 6000 posts since October, 2002 - the thread started on October seventh, not July tenth. It's a Brit site but it must've been designed by Americans, 'cause that's the American dating system. :p

Grumpy,
You haven't see the ultimate EW child abuse movie, I don't believe - Witness. Got an interesting discussion going at one point over where putting child actors into those sorts of movies might be a type of child abuse in and of itself! How do you explain WW II concentration camps to your eight-? nine-? year old - especially when he's going to play an inhabitant! :eek:

Honey,
Ted Casablanca has a hugely fake-looking tan himself, IIRC, but I find his voice so grating I have a hard time looking at him. :p And as to the idea of Elijah getting a tan... :rolleyes:

Congratulations to the Faculty making 6000 (plus, now) posts!

(((((Faculty))))))

Sheryl

Originally posted by shadowcatshadow
The Suicide machines must be something else. It's as if some part of his mind doesn't fit with his physical body, and of course yu'll end up with Strange Suicide Solutions.
Elijah himself seems to be about as far from suicidal as is humanly possible. IMVHO it's his ability to show externally what's going on in a character internally that lands him in a lot of the psychological roles: Child in the Night, The Witness, Radio Flyer, The Good Son, Oliver Twist (where he gave the Dodger an internal "something" that IMHO went behond what the script gave him to work with), Bumblebee, Chain of Fools in its own strange way, Ash Wednesday and Try 17 to a certain extent, and at the pinnacle of achievement--Frodo, whom he took from innocent and naive, to and through hell, and on to a completely new place (and, not incidentally, somehow brought the audience along).

Sheryl--Thanks for the cross-cultural "interpretation." I went back to the start of the thread, trying to figure out where July 10 came from :confused: :o :p . It is kind of strange that they use the American system, but, of course, I never even thought about it...

Said by Moondancer:
I really feel sorry for Macauley. Not only did he have a lousy childhood, he had to endure a cruel press.Yesterday, there was a program on child stars on our tv.
Apparently, he attempted a comeback but failed (I've never heard of the comeback movie).

I know this isn’t the Macauley Culkin defense thread, but I can’t help speaking up for him. Until recently I knew very little about him. I never saw Home Alone, and I heard nothing about his father’s tyranny. But last year I met the producer of Home Alone and he told me stories of how difficult Macauley’s father was, and how he used his kids. I felt really sorry for them. Then, a few months ago, Macauley was interviewed on Barbara Walter’s and talked of severing his relationship with his father. He seemed humble and sweet and introverted, which took me by surprise. I don’t know—maybe he’s changed or he was always this way. I don’t know. And maybe the interview wasn’t representative anyway, and he really is a snot and I missed that part. But for now, I like him. His comeback movie, Party Monster, was really quite brave. He played the story of a real character—a transvestite who presided over some of the party scene in NY and who ended up brutally murdering someone. Last month I also saw the premiere of Saved, at Sundance, in which Macauley played with an ensemble cast of young actors. It was quite an appealing story of kids at a Christian High School having to question some of the more black and white assumptions in their community. His character was wheelchair-bound—vulnerable and yet struggling for independence. He was good.

Bringing this back onto topic…back to Elijah…our real and true and only reason for being here. :D I did ponder about Elijah while I watched Macauley (who is a year older than Elijah, I think ) very successfully play this high school student. Elijah wants so much to play adult characters—no more kids. And yet to me he seems to be in this in between place. Elijah in one way seems so adult, and sometimes can even look so adult (like in his “Gregory Peck” photos Hobmom posted months ago!)—but he can also still look so young. He looks like what he is, an older person in a youth’s body. People his age who look young often still play kids in high school. But I think that playing Frodo sort of wrecked him for playing high school kids. Frodo is an adult. Frodo is just what Elijah is-- an older person in a younger body. But Frodo is a hobbit and so Frodo doesn’t have to look like an adult human to still be seen as an adult hobbit. The whole adult in a young body works for Frodo (getting circular, aren’t I?). Frodo took Elijah right out of the high school type roles. But can Elijah the human pull off really adult roles? Can he look the part? I guess college age seems a bit right—but not like in All I Want, IMHO (I didn’t buy All I Want—maybe because Elijah doesn’t seem as young mentally to me as that character seemed. He needs to be a more grownup, or more experienced, youth. Oh yeah, I know he is supposed to be acting and all…but it didn’t work for me—maybe Hooligans will be more like it). Maybe Elijah needs to be a saavy youth. An adult youth. He can be a Savvy Youth. Go Elijah. I’d love to see him chewing gum and being the wiry smart talking leader of a gang. Now I can picture that. :cool:

Or, The Saint.:) :p

I’m intrigued by the possible St. Gabriele role. In days past people didn’t live so long did they? So a person was considered an adult at a younger age than in these days when the period of childhood/adolescence has been more and more extended, sometimes lasting until a person is 30. Is it type casting to have Elijah play another saint?? I don’t think so—or if so—then go with it every once in a while, if it works. It’s a grown up role he might be suited for. A grownup in a youthful body—he can go with his instrument. And IMHO it won’t just remind people of Frodo. He’ll be human, with human issues. He won’t have big feet and the rest of the characters won’t be twice his height. Elijah will have done Hooligans and ESotSM. Saintly won’t be the only way people will have seen him. As has been commented before—Elijah seems of a different era—so he can work with that. Who else would be better? Yeah, Peter O’Tool played Kings because he was good at it and had the right presence. I’m glad he did. If Elijah has the right presence for the role…then I’d love to see him go for it. He can be an adult in a youthful body (obviously I like saying that). I think they just took kids straight to adulthood back then, anyway. No adolescent stage at all. In my mind, the stereotype Elijah needs to stay away from is the awkward, sensitive geek. It’s not bad--it's good--but it’s been done. So go be a saint, Elijah. (I’m saying all this absolutely knowing nothing about said Saint, and likely digging myself into a hole when I find out he is really an immature old guy or something, or an awkward, sensitive geek).

My original post got erased when I was bumped, so this is hurried and not all that considered. But that’s me lately. I run into the Faculty and out very quickly.

Back to Middle-Earth being real. I love what you all have said, and TG I am anxious to read your essay about it. John Lennon said that everything that becomes real has to be imagined first to make it happen. Whether in this case imagination came first, or whether Middle-earth has been discovered first through Tolkien’s unburiel of it---it does seem that it is real. It has us all pondering and examining—it has shaped our lives and our thinking and the desires that we have. Seems in some ways it is definitely real, because it sure has had the power to change people, and in turn to change lives and thus (let me get dramatic), the world. What is more real than that? (da da da dum!!). :eek: :D

Good night all.
Alyon

delurking here

Saw Mac Culkin in a play in London a few years ago, quite good, really.

The Saint Gabriel role intrigues me no end.

relurking :)

Originally posted by juliebeth
Saw Mac Culkin in a play in London a few years ago, quite good, really.

Yeah, I know, not the Mac defense thread... actually, I don't think he needs a defense thread :) --seems to me that any negative remarks made here (or anyplace else that I've read them) have been about his father rather than him. But a few comments (some even Elijah-related ;) )...

I saw Macauley interviewed a few years ago, too, and he said he was going to be doing a play in London--maybe the one juliebeth saw... He also played a recurring character in a few episodes of Will and Grace this past season. He said in the interview that he wanted to start small, and it seems he's done fairly well doing just that over the last few years. He and Elijah seemed to get along great on the set, and I'm one of the ones who think he did some good acting in The Good Son--as an emotionless psychopath, which is just what he's supposed to be. I hope he has the kind of career he wants this time around, and I'd love to see him and Elijah do something together again.

Ditto to Alyon's "hammered home" :p take on Elijah as an adult in a youthful body. And, the thing is, there are and have always been people like that--so he should be able to find some to play, right? :) I remember one reviewer (for Ash Wednesday, maybe?) saying Elijah didn't look 21--and I thought, "Well, he is 21. If a 21-year-old doesn't look like a 21-year-old, what the heck does a 21-year-old look like :confused: ?" I know the reviewer meant he didn't look like a stereotypical 21-year-old, but parts don't always have to be stereotypically cast, do they?

On people (and saints ;) ) growing up faster--Even if you take religious orders as a "subclassification" of society, times have changed. In the "old days"--which would include the 19th century--you had one year after you walked in the front door to decide if that was how you wanted to spend the rest of your life (and the community had the same year to decide if they wanted you there for the rest of your life). Now everything's individualized, but the most common length of time for education and discernment before permanent vows is at least six years--and the trend is upward rather than the opposite. The world's a much more complicated place, and religious communities are a lot more careful about who they accept than they were even a couple of decades ago. (Hey, I was kicked out twice--which was good, because I didn't belong there :cool: .)

On typecasting--I also agree that Elijah has to be more careful about playing another bumbling-geek-who-makes-good than another "saint." I was also thinking that--unless I've forgotten something--Elijah's never played a real historical person ("real" in our primary reality, that is :) ). Even if he does play Einstein, that would still be in a fictional situation. So the Saint Gabriele role would be a new experience for him in a number of ways (keeping in mind that the whole thing is still an unsubstantiated rumor).

BTW, I surfed a bit after following ainon's link to USA Today and found an article about RotK actors' next roles. Guess what David Wenham's doing next? Playing a monk :) ! And after Troy, Orlando Bloom's going to be in a movie set in the time of the Crusades--he'd better do something set today pretty soon, or he could be typecast (although the person writing the article didn't think there was much chance of that)!

from Alyon
In my mind, the stereotype Elijah needs to stay away from is the awkward, sensitive geek.
Hear, hear! I fully agree with your post, rushed or not! ;) And we've been talking about "saint" Frodo on this thread, but is this how the world sees him? Based on the internet popularity polls I've seen (however representative they might be), Sam is the saint, and Frodo is the useless bit of baggage that Samwise has to haul up the mountain, because Frodo's too wimpy to do it on his own. And then he claims the Ring! :eek: No, I don't think the world at large is in danger of canonizing Saint Frodo.

from tgshaw
I remember one reviewer (for Ash Wednesday, maybe?) saying Elijah didn't look 21--and I thought, "Well, he is 21. If a 21-year-old doesn't look like a 21-year-old, what the heck does a 21-year-old look like ?"
LOL! This is what cracks me up about reviewers. They really are only sharing their prejudices in print. Like the one who had to volunteer the other day (I'm paraphrasing), "Elijah needs to get a tan to move his career forward." :rolleyes: And if I hear one more comparison of Elijah Wood to Mark Hamill I think I'll scream! (BTW I always liked Mark Hamill -- durned nice human being, too. It grates on me to see him repeatedly dredged up as a failure.)

Hmm, obviously I'm a little wound up, here. ROTK TIME!! :)

Originally posted by Mariole
[B] And then he claims the Ring! :eek: No, I don't think the world at large is in danger of canonizing Saint Frodo.


LOL! St. Frodo indeed! :)

I love Sam, though. He's more clueless in the books than in the movie, but without him, Frodo would not have made it far enough to claim the ring.

There's a three-way tug between Sam, Frodo and Gollum, because without Gollum, they never would have made it out of Emyn Muil, or into Mordor at all. As despicable as Gollum was, he was as crucial as Sam in getting Frodo up the mountain. The book says that Gollum's grab for the Ring on Mt. Doom was the only thing that could have roused the dying embers of Frodo's soul (or whatever).

Sam had the most steady growth of any character throughout. He steadily gained courage and strength in direct proportion to Frodo's loss of both. Frodo was right - he wouldn't have got far without Sam. Frodo deteriorated physically and mentally, but his will and spirit never broke despite constant battering from the Ring, and that's what I think is so amazing. He simply put one foot in front of the other until he got to Mt. Doom or died in the attempt.

I need to see RotK again this weekend. Maybe tonight!

Like the one who had to volunteer the other day (I'm paraphrasing), "Elijah needs to get a tan to move his career forward."

Sheesh. The poor guy can't win. Too short, too young-looking, eyes too big, only one expression, wasn't acting when he played Frodo - oh, wait - he wasn't acting either when he played all of his other roles, right? ;D

A *TAN*?!? :eek: :eek: Elijah Wood will get a tan when I do! I don't know how often his hair was colored during earlier roles, but it usually looks quite reddish. I don't know if they painted Stu's freckles on in The War, but he had them. His hair is dark now, but that boy is a redhead at heart!! He has that [Southern Accent] delicate alabaster skin [/Southern Accent] that many redheads have - the ones without masses of freckles. It would be a dreadful mistake for him to attempt it. He'd end up with one h*ll of a burn.

~grumpy (A tan? A *tan*? :::: banging head on kbd :::: A TAN?!?)(how's that for a nice long post that doesn't say anything? ) :p

Dear ldies, the great discussion as ever...
But could anyone English-speaker explain to the poor foreigner what this *TAN* is?!? :confused: ;( I don't understand what do you speak about. :(

Well, the Bagginses aren't Fallohides for nothing...;)

Originally posted by Rikka

But could anyone English-speaker explain to the poor foreigner what this *TAN* is?!?

When your skin is darkened by exposure to the sun, that's a "tan."

Steelsheen,
Ouch!

Sheryl

Originally posted by shilohmm
[B]When your skin is darkened by exposure to the sun, that's a "tan."

How Old Toby came by the leaf...

:::: slapping self :::: Sorry. Channeling Meriadoc there. ;D

The skin turns a "tan" color, which tends to be light brown (depending on the original color of the skin). The other meaning is the consistency of the skin from constant tanning. The word "tan" comes from the process of turning hide into leather by processing it with chemicals. The process is harsh, as is exposure to the sun to get the skin to turn that color.

People who already have a certain amount of melanin in their skin tan more easily than those with [southern accent] delicate alabaster skin [/southern accent]. People with very light skin like me (and my dad) just burn. I've never had a tan in my life. My dad, if exposed to sun for more than a few minutes, would become deathly ill from the burn.

I've known people who tanned almost compulsively every summer. One woman had scars on her skin from the burns. Others end up with skin looking and feeling exactly like leather. It's very easy to get skin cancer, especially in certain parts of the world with higher UV than others.

So Elijah will never get a tan. Thank <insert name of deity here>. He's a delightfully unusual-looking man in an industry where it's often difficult to tell one handsome hunk from another, or one bleached and enhanced blonde from another.

~grumpy ("These hobbits will sit on the edge of ruin and discuss the pleasures of the table..." -- Gandalf)(oops. Two posts. Sorry)(RotK tonight or no?)

from zkgrumpy:
Elijah Wood will get a tan when I do!

So in 1996 you must have had one hell of a tan, grumps! (Now, I know you guys don't like being reminded of F*****r, but it remains a fact of life, and Elijah Jordan Wood had one very obvious all-over (?) suntan in that movie - well, on all the visible bits, anyway). Comes of all that swimming with dolphins (which reminds me: Flipper and his whole family came to call when I went on a dolphin-watching cruise off the Australian coast in Jan. The boat guys said [OK, I'm gullible] it was quite rare for them to come so close to the boat. I reckon they know an Elijah fan when they smell one).

Oh, and he had a tan in "The War" too, if I ain't mistaken.

But personally I too think his skin of liquid marble suits him better. Suntans are boring. Marble skin is breathtaking (on him, anyway ;)).

Wonder if Elijah's agent has an Awkward, Sensitive Geek Alert she can use as necessary? :D

from Shilohmm:
6000 posts since October, 2002 - the thread started on October seventh

Sorry! That makes around 12 posts a day, then! More amazing still. We are just so damn prolific. Hope Elijah's duly impressed. There can't be many actors who attract - and keep - such a weight of ... erm ... intelligent posts :)

and

I've always believed that the best authors are recording something that actually happened in another dimension - they're able to look through the dimensional walls with varied clarity, and they record what they see. Maybe Elijah can look through those same walls and establish a psychic connection with the character in question?

Wow. I really like that thought. Now where did I leave my transdimensional glasses?
from Whiteling:
"That is my idea of art, too. Picasso said: "I do not search, I find." This is at least true for me, art is finding, not inventing. It is really similar to archaelogy. You only can discover the hidden pictures/archetypes, "sleeping" in our deepest layers of being, there is nothing you could invent and there is no need for. It is a finding process and a going into resonance work.

Love that too. I think it was Philip Pullman (and he's not the only one) who said recently that the characters start to take over as he writes. Some say writing - and all art - is a process of discovering what kind of lost cathedral lies beneath that fragment on the surface. Now if I could just remember where I left the fragment ....

Saint Frodo? :confused: More like St.aloysus to me. He was this He Man looking Priest. I'm not sure, but he had this hangup of thunderstorms and he never got over it. Or was he the one with the Bad Temper and never got over it?

He was auburn haired I think and the Frodo pic of half his face in shadoiw seems to be auburn hair and blue eyed, albaster skin gorgeousness. I'm not sure, but I'm certain that St.Aloysus was equallaly good looking in his day too.

Flipper made Elijah look like the perfect bully. You don't see him until he opens his mouth. Stu is a nice guy too, but what a meally mouthed bully when he gets aroused. He was also ugly. Sandy was just plain scary looking. Didn't it scare anybody when Sandy lit up that cigar the first time? but somehow both guys had a certain serenity to them. :D

SCS, somehow I doubt that Elijah is ugly in Flipper, and I've certainly never heard that opinion expressed elsewhere. Otherwise I never would have ordered it, which I did this past week. Sometime next week I should be watching our boy swim with the dolphins! :D And finally seeing The Good Son on DVD!

Very interesting discussion on the possible 'saint' role. Personally, I think Elijah be perfect for it (if it doesn't turn out to be just a rumor) and I don't think it would be a repeat of his role as Frodo at all. In all the reviews of the LotR movies I've read, I can't recall anyone comparing Frodo to a saint or seeing him as playing that role. IMHO I think much of the interpretation of 'Frodo as saint' comes from discussion of the book, and our own exploration of 'who looks like that?' So I don't think it would be typecasting at all. But I do think he's done his share of awkward geeks, and charming as he can be in those roles, I am looking forward to seeing him play some edgier characters. I think the way his face has matured in the last two or three years will really help this - not to mention the intensity of his performance in RotK.

HAPPY VALENTINES DAY TO YOU ALL!!!!!

AND BIG KISS AND HUG TO ELIJAH!!!!!!

:k :k :k :k

and a to late happybirthday to Achila

Thank you, Wood - happy Valentine's Day to you too! And to your lovely namesake. :)

Just a couple of quick thoughts. Saw ROTK for the 7th time on Thurs night. Male friend and Tolkien aficionado, watching line drawings in credits at end, muttered "he was so good" when EW's face and name appeared. Restrained self from hugging him (too much of a giveaway :)). More sobbing from behind us! It doesn't make me sob any more - I just sit there thinking how beautiful it all is (despite the slight Samhero bias - but the real damage there was done in TTT rather than ROTK, I feel: PJ does put the emphasis very very firmly on Frodo in the closing scenes of the trilogy, thank goodness).

But two things came to mind (again):

GOOD SON SPOILER ALERT!!
(1) the amazing Froshadowings in "The Good Son" - have I or has anyone else covered this before? If so, apologies. Mark spends movie battling ambiguous buddy who plays mind games with him, tricks him, deliberately exposes him to dangers of all kinds and, it turns out, has murdered his own brother. The two of them end up having a scrap on the edge of a cliff and both (of course) falling over. The "bad son" falls to his death while our hero is hauled to safety by someone who loves him.
end of SPOILERS

(2) The fall of the Two Towers. Couldn't help thinking of the other, twin towers. And the fact that, according to Sean, Elijah narrowly escaped 9/11 by flying out of New York that very morning. By eagle, no doubt.

Very strange.

Whiteling, thanks for your PM! Will reply soon!!

serena,do you mean he nearly get away from the attack?
i missed that,were can i read about it,was it in a interwie,with sean or?:eek: ::eek: :eek:

i have a question? why is some women so freakt out about
guys with tan i dont get it!
in my eyes elijah look perfect without a tan!
maybe he cant be in the sun or he get burnd of it ,that dont
make him less atractive or defently not worse as an actor!!!!
that he can never be!!!:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

If anyone in the NY area is still hoping to catch that "Filmmaker's Journey" special this weekend (and I know I am), I thought I'd mention that CBS is still listing a "West Wing" rerun for the advertised time slot (tonight at midnight) but is apparently running a half-hour "Paid Programming" show SUNDAY AT NOON. I think the LOTR special is half an hour?

I'm thinking that maybe someone confused midnight and noon when they ran the ad Deluby so kindly copied for us here--? Or CBS changed the time of the broadcast? So I plan to set my VCR to tape both slots.

I also noticed that "Radio Flyer" is on Encore Channel again on Thursday morning (followed a little later in the day by FOTR in the afternoon).

Finally, someone at TORC is saying she expects to meet Elijah Wood at a Mardi Gras ball next weekend and will ask him about the "I Love You" line. I almost hate to bring that up again :p but I'll be checking that thread the following morning .......;)

Couldn't sleep last night. Came out to the family room and watched the last half of FoTR. (I'd watched the first half last week.)

Now I've been feelin' a bit down of late. (Aging parent crap that I won't bore you with.) And I was feeling a bit torn, hobbit-deprived yet skeptical as hell. :( I was seeing places where the special effects didn't work (they've always convinced me before,) and a few of the sets seemed - dare I say it? Cheesey! (Were those windchimes in Lothlorien?)

So I looked at Elijah and thought, "well Lad, this may very well be 'make' or 'break!' "

I have done a lot of lookin' at pretty pictures of Elijah in the past year-plus. I've durn near worn out my "REALTIME" player watchin' vid clips of him. There's a file on my drive bursting with pics of the lad. Obsessed? ME? :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: Well, yeah, in a word.

But when I watched FoTR last night, try as I might I couldn't see Elijah. I mean he was just no where to be found. Even in my curmudgeonly mood he wasn't there.

Instead there was this little short fellow named Frodo. He moves completely differently than Mr. Wood, holds his head completely differently, mouths words in an entirely different way. Elijah talks with his hands. Frodo doesn't. Elijah has a particular precise way of speaking; Frodo's, while yet wholly precise, is completely different.

And this just simply blew me away. You'd think as over-exposed as I am to the boy, that I'd be seeing the seams, cracks, flaws. They ain't there, folks! Frodo may have been wearing Elijah's skin, but that was the most I could say, because he moved in it completely differently!

Wow!

Thank you, Elijah!

Honey!

Narya, I really appreciated your follow-up on the "saint" discussion. I would love to see EW play a historical figure. I love history and biographies. I hope you enjoy "Flipper" -- a rather silly story, but lovely photography. And it has dolphins!

Serena, I don't think anyone has ever run down the complete list of "Good Son" to LOTR similarities in such a complete fashion. Wow! And when you add the "Galadriel on the stairs" scene to this -- :eek:

Wood, I'm sorry, but I don't recall the details about Elijah's flight on 9/11. From what I remember, he was up in the air flying out of New York, when the news started coming in about these other hijacked flights. Poor Sean was quite frantic in big-brother mode, trying to find out if Elijah's flight was okay. I'm not sure how much Elijah knew about the danger at the time (does anyone have a better memory of this than me?) :o

As for tans -- :rolleyes: It's just another status symbol here in the U.S.A. If you can lounge around getting a tan, you must be some kinda sexy (or wealthy) dude! Or dudette. It's all just prejudices, and really doesn't mean anything except that it's a common prejudice (and therefore many people think that those who conform to this stereotype are HOT!!!111!!1! and should get more movie roles). It's similar to how movie actors have to be so buff these days. It's a relief to go back to older movies, and see heroes who can be heroic and emotional and don't need to remove their shirts -- or if they do, they have normal musculature underneath. But it is a prejudice and Elijah has been knocked for being too pale and for not having a washboard stomach or visible, rippling biceps. (I find myself laughing typing that sentence, trying to imagine Elijah walking around as a little mini-Arnold.)

But Elijah seems very comfortable with who he is and what he looks like, and by defying the stereotype, I think he's positioning himself as a character actor (vs action hero). As he's so good with the subtle characterizations, I think this is a good plan. However, people do tend to overlook how physical he is. He can do wonderful physical comedy (pratfalls and the like) and certainly has no problem hurling himself down cliffs, leaping onto precarious perches, or getting slung around by people or various rigs. As much as people tease about Frodo "falling down," I end up being amazed at how physical and demanding a lot of these stunts are. The characters who just "stand up" all the time have a much easier go of it! :p Anyhow, the point is that I would hate for all this physical potential to remain untapped. So, character plus something physical would be a good solution for me!

Honeyelf, I hear you. He's perfect, beautiful, and so much the soul of Frodo! *sigh*

Not everywhere in the US is the tan a status symbol. In fact I thought a deep tan is considered rather unfashionable these days, what with all the skin cancer warnings. A little tan seems fine. But where I live in the urban pacific northwest, pale skin and piercings...(well, not so much with the piercings anymore) is considered more fashionable. The LA looks can almost border on cheesy. :D :D (I should duck!). Elijah's skin is just right!!! And please, enough with the super buff men. Boring...:p :p (Okay, now I'm just being superficial!! Really, to eachtheir own and a hundred ways to be. A million, a thousand, the more the merrier. But Elijah looks grand and pale skin is fitting for a young man wanting to enter the music business!! Works with the "up all night and sleep all day" image. :cool:

Alright. I'm being silly. Just silly. And I know it. I'm talking in extremes. Really, though, I think deep tans aren't so popular--but maybe if you average out american tastes, you'd get something of a light honey color favored for caucasion skins. But who goes for average?

(((Honey))) So that's what you were doing in the middle of the night. We're in the same time zone. I was doing a bit of the same, maybe the same time. Sleepless nights, huh. Got to use them well. I know. Hope you get some rest tonight!!

Originally posted by serena
I think it was Philip Pullman (and he's not the only one) who said recently that the characters start to take over as he writes.
Much as I cringe at having to agree with Philip Pullman on something, IMVHO that has a lot of truth to it. When the character does something you didn't expect... Or, even better, when you're writing a scene that you'd planned since the beginning and suddenly realize the character has evolved in such a way that the scene no longer makes sense...

So, even though Pullman regularly villifies Tolkien and I doubt if Tollers would have been buddies with Pullman if he were still around, I guess they share some common ground. The way the characters grew and changed during the writing of LotR (or even showed up unexpectedly, such as Trotter/Strider/Aragorn) is amazing in itself. We can all be grateful that Elijah didn't play someone named "Bingo" who played silly tricks on people with the ring (not the Ring) :eek: !

Originally posted by honeyelf
And this just simply blew me away. You'd think as over-exposed as I am to the boy, that I'd be seeing the seams, cracks, flaws. They ain't there, folks! Frodo may have been wearing Elijah's skin, but that was the most I could say, because he moved in it completely differently!
And all the people cried, "Amen!" :k (((Honey)))

Happy belated birthday, Achilla! :)

And a (( )) for Honey. :k

Originally posted by Mariole
Wood, I'm sorry, but I don't recall the details about Elijah's flight on 9/11. From what I remember, he was up in the air flying out of New York, when the news started coming in about these other hijacked flights. Poor Sean was quite frantic in big-brother mode, trying to find out if Elijah's flight was okay. I'm not sure how much Elijah knew about the danger at the time (does anyone have a better memory of this than me?) :o

Nothing better, but I can back you up that yeah, that's the story. Both EW and SA have mentioned it in different interviews. I'm clearly too lazy to take the next step and actually look for said interviews. :D


Sheryl, that pic -- that's Patrick of ESotSM.


Nice GS observation, serena. None of us ever predicted RotK would have that finale, of course, and beautifully done it is. Also Sam's "Don't you let go!" and "Reach!" accomplish great things in the upping the Angst Scale. :D Frodo and Sam are just such a great pair - together. There's none of this hero plus sidekick business, and that's a most wonderful contribution to filmdom, IMHO. :)


Cultural thingy: this side of the world, the emphasis on what makes a person beautiful is fairness of skin. Beauty products that promise 'skin whitening' are a-plenty now :rolleyes: and one advertisement shows a girl practically turning into a ravishing beauty worth the attention of all boys once her skin whitens with great Adobe-Photoshopped effect. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:




Hobbits Reign as Mardi Gras Lords (http://www.theonering.net/perl/newsview/8/1076816390)

NEW ORLEANS,, 12 February 2004 /PRNewswire/ -- Feb. 12 - As if hobbits didn't have enough excitement this year, now they are planning to take over New Orleans during Mardi Gras! Elijah Wood and Dominic Monaghan, stars from the hit movie "The Lord of the Rings," will be throwing "precious" things to the crowds as part of the 147th celebration of Fat Tuesday in New Orleans. Wood is set to reign as King Bacchus 2004, while Monaghan will rule as Celebrity Monarch over the Krewe of Orpheus.


So ... this is fun stuff, right? :D

Godmorning to you my friends!!

I just saw a intresting artical at TORN.Its about how PJ
change the carracter of Frodo from the bookfrodo to
moviefrodo and its mentioned EW a cuopel of times
but i coudent enderstand all of it.
:) :(

Wood, thanks for the tip. Went over to the TORN site to read it.
A lament on why Peter Jackson did sell Frodo short.
The author puts the blame on PJ because she takes the time to "cheer for Elijah Wood's selfless performance".

This has been debated a lot of times, even in this thread.
I never expected the movies to be an exact replica of the books and I like the fact that it's promoted as PJ's vision of JRR Tolkiens books.
The Harry Potter movies stay very, very close to the books and...there's something missing in the movies (IMVHO). I think it limits the director a bit too much if he/she has to stick to the original book too much. Some things are easier to portray in books and you have to be able to change things in the movie to get the right message across.
Although, in general, I'm pleased with the way Frodo was portrayed, I wish that I had to ability to change a couple of things. To bring in some elements of book Frodo on the screen. To show some people in the public (who miss the point) that Frodo is NOT A WHIMP! The Weathertop scene the author of the essay refers to is a big example of that. Book Frodo was indeed not the one to drop his sword so quickly and quiver whilst the rest stood up to the Nazgûl.

When I heard that they were going to make a trilogy out of the books, I was not expecting them to give an exact replica of the world JRRT created, neither was I expecting to see Middle Earth as I pictured it in my head. That's impossible to do, so I started watching the movies, expecting to see changes.
I started watching the movies to see JRR Tolkien's books through the eyes of another big JRRT fan, to see PJ's viewpoint.

When I read the books, I loved the way Sam and Frodo was portrayed. I loved their relationship, but I saw them mainly through the eyes of Sam.
The movies changed that: I watch the movies through the eyes of Frodo thanks to the magnificent performance of the actor playing him.
My book Frodo is different than movie Frodo but ...I love them both. :)
(movie Frodo sure is a lot more beautiful than book Frodo ;) )


I'm a bit amazed by the suggestion that Elijah should get a tan. Why on earth should he get a tan if his natural skin color is so beautiful and suits him so well? He'll get a tan if the movie requires it (Flipper, The War).
In my family, you'll find a wide variety of skin colors, going from the very, very pale to the very, very dark. Frankly, I love seeing the variety. Be happy with the skin color you're born with.
Now, in some cultures, having a tan is a sign of wealth, health, well-being.
Some centuries ago, it was the opposite. Being pale was a sign of wealth because most people who had to work for a living, had to work outside and they had a tan as a result of it. So, being pale (and having a bit of flesh on you) was a sign of wealth.

posted by honeyelf
And this just simply blew me away. You'd think as over-exposed as I am to the boy, that I'd be seeing the seams, cracks, flaws. They ain't there, folks! Frodo may have been wearing Elijah's skin, but that was the most I could say, because he moved in it completely differently!

Wow!

Thank you, Elijah!

Honey!

Beautiful! Thanks for sharing that, Honey!

Originally posted by ainon
Also Sam's "Don't you let go!" and "Reach!" accomplish great things in the upping the Angst Scale. :D Frodo and Sam are just such a great pair - together. There's none of this hero plus sidekick business, and that's a most wonderful contribution to filmdom, IMHO. :)
IMHO, Sam's "Don't you let go" is very important. Along with the look on Elijah's face, it's what tells the audience that this isn't a simple case of "Oops! I fell over the edge and now Sam has to rescue me." Instead, the reality is that Frodo's about ready to let go--and having just seen Gollum blissfully falling with his Precious adds even more emphasis to that possibility. In essence, Sam does save him, but not just by physically pulling him up; It's Frodo's love for Sam that keeps him from letting go and leaving Sam to die alone. IMHO, the way SA delivers the line just backs that up--it almost has the sound of "Don't you dare do that to me!"

There's just been a bit of discussion in the "Little Things I Liked" thread about the reasons behind the "tweaking" of Frodo's line from "I'm glad you're with me" to "I'm glad I'm with you" at the end of all things (and not just the actual reasons the scriptwriters might have consciously had, but what it's meant to the viewers themselves). One idea that's come up is the feeling that Frodo's saying he's glad he didn't let go, so that he is able to be there with Sam.

There was a lot of speculation before RotK came out that Frodo would go over the edge at the Crack of Doom and we'd have an echo of the handclasp in the boat--which IMHO could have come across as completely artificial. So when I first saw Frodo go over the edge with Gollum, I thought, "Oh, no... here it comes." But between Sean's line delivery and Elijah's wordless acting, I believe the moment was raised far above that.

Moondancer----I won't rehash my ideas about the "logistics" of the Weathertop scene, but do want to point out that Frodo doesn't drop his sword until after the other hobbits have been dealt with and he's standing alone facing the WiKi.

So ... this is fun stuff, right? :D
Yes, Mardi Gras in New Orleans is very fun stuff :) :) !

I saw Deep impact on tv yesterday and i just cant get it.
How can he look so young and cute in some scense and
adult and very,very handsome in the next i dont get it
anybody here who can???:rolleyes: :( :eek: :eek: :eek:

Thanks to all for your explanation of this " tan" subject. :) Well, I like this young actor enough and without any tan. He's gifted with beautiful marble skin, no need to spoil it. :)

Originally posted by Moondancer
To show some people in the public (who miss the point) that Frodo is NOT A WHIMP! .
IMO Intelligent spectator who's able to use his/her brains in the theater would never think EW's Frodo to be a whimp... Because he NEVER was (in any of 3 movies). And for those among the audience who doesn't want to think I don't care. Normally SUCH people consider Frodo to be a wimp even in the book.

Originally posted by Moondancer
The Weathertop scene.... Book Frodo was indeed not the one to drop his sword so quickly and quiver whilst the rest stood up to the Nazgûl.[/B]
As for me, I oppositely was happy how PJ changed the Weathertop scene. When I watched FOTR for the first time, when Frodo drops his sword there - but refuses the order of Wiki (by his only will not sword) to give him the Ring became for me exactly that moment when I believed in EW's Frodo forever and ever. Because that is just what Frodo is about for me in the book - courage and resistance of spirit and soul , not sword.

By the way I never liked this moment in the book - I just could't believe in Frodo's behaviour and heroic bravery with Nazgul at Weathertop. He seemed out of character there for me, acting not like himself, but like some fairy tale hero... For me the Weathertop as at is in the final (4th) edition of LOTR is not believable at all. :(

But I can say that I completely believe how the Weathertop scene made in the 3d (nonpublished) rough copy of LOTR (I was lucky to read some chapters from it). There this moment does psychologicaly work for me because Frodo is still very different there - younger, more emotional and vulnerable (very much like EW's Frodo!) And his attack at Nazgul has different motivation: he just learned that his best friend was killed by nazguls, more over - killed because of his Frodo, mistake... So he feels terrible shock, grif, guilt and despair (like after Moria in the movie). So he attacks Nazgul not because of bravery, but just in blind hate, rage and desire for revenge... that the Ring uses for it's purposes.

Sincerely saying I LOVE a lot of things from the 3d variant of the novel. It's so psychologicaly delicate and rich, much more that the final variant of LOTR we all know. I'm almost sure PJ and his scriptwriters knew this edition - so many character's descriptions, motivations seem to be from it... a lot of frodesque things - for sure.

P.S.

tg,
I completely agree with you on that "Don't you let go" thing. I think PJ made a brilliant change of the plot here. This immediately puts inside the movie all these motives of Frodo's post-quest feeling of being guilty and being a looser and all his emotional traume and suffering.

And it also greatly adds to Frodo's story in ROTK movie. For me the 3-d film's genre is some kind of sacral mistery-play (in difference with FOTR - magic tale/myth and TTT - heroic heathen epic ). It's about death and faith, of sactifice, death and resurection of pure soul. Some of the viewers, who don't really understand the story say that Frodo betrayed Sam and all others when he put on the Ring at Sammath Naur. We all know that is not so - he couldn't make a free choise there while a betrayal is a subject of free choice.

In the movie the only real betrayal Frodo could do at Sammath Naur - to release his hands and to let himself go, leaving Sam to die alone. In this case his soul IMO would die, like Gollum's... But a pure love to fis friend saves him from this destiny - and EW is greatelly doing this change of mood by eyes and mimic. I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE this scene...

from tgshaw:
Pullman regularly villifies Tolkien and I doubt if Tollers would have been buddies with Pullman if he were still around

Clearly hit a raw nerve there - sorry, Tg! :eek: Had no idea PP had made any pronouncements about JRRT. All I know of PP comes from various radio interviews and documentaries around the time he won the Whitbread Prize - not from his books, which young friends tell me are good. And about to be filmed by New Line .....
from mariole:
I'm not sure how much Elijah knew about the danger at the time
Not much, if I remember correctly. His flight was diverted to somewhere in the midwest, apparently, because all planes still in the air after the Trade Center/Pentagon were hit were told to land a.s.a.p. I'd guess the passengers were told why after they'd landed. So to say he had a narrow escape was a bit of an overstatement - I hope (don't wish to speculate on which part of NY he'd been in or what would have happened if ..).

from Moondancer:
When I read the books, I loved the way Sam and Frodo was portrayed. I loved their relationship, but I saw them mainly through the eyes of Sam. The movies changed that: I watch the movies through the eyes of Frodo thanks to the magnificent performance of the actor playing him.
My book Frodo is different than movie Frodo but ...I love them both. (movie Frodo sure is a lot more beautiful than book Frodo

Thank you for writing that, Moondancer :). And - edit - thank you Rikka and Tg for your simulposts :), which have also cheered me up somewhat. Especially this:
from Rikka:
I just could't believe in Frodo's behaviour and heroic bravery with Nazgul at Weathertop. He seemed out of character there for me, acting not like himself, but like some fairy tale hero
I too have just read Juliet Waldron's moving and seemingly well-argued piece on TORN, and came away from it feeling sad - for Tolkien, for his character Frodo, and above all for Elijah. Mea culpa, I still haven't read LOTR, but it seems from what many here have said that film!Frodo has been downsized. I'm almost afraid now to read the books, in case they ruin the films for me for ever. It's almost heartbreaking to think what Frolijah could have been if portrayed as JW says he was intended. I adore him as he is, which is why I'm here, but it seems Elijah could have been given even more of a chance to show the strength and courage and intelligence which are attributes of both the actor and the original character. I have a sneaking suspicion NL had a hand in it: certainly Arwen's intervention looks like Hollywood interference, or trying-to-please-Hollywood at the very least. And the noble-underdog-theme is another one that appeals to the general public and brings in audiences. (However, I'm sure I remember reading someone's view recently (not here) that Tolkien himself saw Sam as the true hero of LOTR. Maybe this is not the place to discuss that .....)

Coming back to Elijah, yes, the whole thing puts his selflessness into even sharper relief. Even if Sam was made the "hero" of the film, Elijah is absolutely the hero of the making - and publicising - of it. Largely unsung, too. And that does not diminish the beauty of his performance: it merely enhances it, if that were possible.

And could this be the real reason Elijah took so long to read the books? If Juliet Waldron is right, the character in them was so far removed from what he was expected to portray that reading the books might have confused and quite possibly upset him. I wonder if he took a deliberate decision early on not to read any further? He has certainly never hinted at this, despite all the ridicule - even vitriol - aimed at him for not reading LOTR. In keeping quiet about that, he may be protecting PJ and the scriptwriters - and knowing how selfless Elijah is, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if that were the case.

So, when after the Globes Elijah talked about the gratitude fans of the books had expressed to the filmmakers for not messing things up (there's a clip on frodoandsam.net), to what extent was he putting a brave face on things? Did he truly believe in the Frodo he portrayed? Had he managed to accept PJ's reasons for doing what he did with Frodo? Had he accepted film!Frodo as the valid Frodo for the context of the film trilogy? I'd love to ask him all these things. Maybe in the next life ....

Originally posted by Rikka
IMO Intelligent spectator who's able to use his/her brains in the theater would never think EW's Frodo to be a whimp... Because he NEVER was (in any of 3 movies). And for those among the audience who doesn't want to think I don't care. Normally SUCH people consider Frodo to be a wimp even in the book.

Some scenes in the movies are different in the books, sure.
I'm not a nitpicker because...well, it's simply not possible to please everybody and the books are so complicated and rich that it's just not possible to bring every little detail (including everybody's interpretation) to the silver screen.
I have the English version of the book with me now + the Dutch version of the book (to make sure that I'm not misunderstanding things) + the FOTR movie on the DVD player just to see how different the Weathertop scene is.
Both in the book and the movie, a lot of the focus is on Frodo's terror, the lure of the Ring, the threat of the Nazgûl. That's the essential theme of that scene and that's what we saw.

I never had a problem with 'angst' Frodo. On the contrary, I was glad and fascinated that Peter Jackson and Elijah Wood (and everybody who were involved) decided to focus on the internal struggle of Frodo. It was a big relieve for me and it was a very brave thing to do and that's why it annoys me so much when I hear people say that Frodo is a whimp in the movies.
I would have been very disappointed if they decided to focus more on a heroic Frodo... a character that corresponds more with Hollywood's main idea of a lead actor's role and the character that has to save the world.
I'm glad that Sam is not portrayed as the funny sidekick and they managed to stay true to the lovely sort of relationship of Sam and Frodo.
Like I said, I sometimes wish that they could have made it a bit more clear...that Frodo is NOT a whimp and that his bravery cannot be measured by the number of times he uses sting and crosses his sword with others.
But I've decided that this would be dumning it down and if people don't understand that Frodo is not a whimp than ...well...that's their problem. ;)
posted by Rikka
Because that is just what Frodo is about for me in the book - courage and resistance of spirit and soul , not sword.
Exactly!! :) :)

I asked a friend of mine who hasn't read the books some questions. Her favorite character is Aragorn because (using her words) "he's hot" :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :D and after asking her other questions, it was clear that the movie works on several levels. A lot of the things just went over her head but she still enjoyed the movies just because it works on several levels but that's also the case with the books and that's why so many people love the books and the movies.

posted by serena
I'm almost afraid now to read the books, in case they ruin the films for me for ever
I was the opposite. I was afraid that the movies would ruin the books for me for ever (like it happened with Interview with a Vampire. Lestat is such a rich and interesting character and Tom Cruise did not do a bad job but ...:(...his Lestat is a poorer version of my Lestat and...:( he's ruined my Lestat).
But...the contrary happened. The books were not ruined by the moves but enriched. Elijah Wood did not portray a one-dimentional Frodo and his Frodo is as rich as the Frodo I had in my head (Elijah even managed to make a couple of things more clear for me).
So, serena...I would say...have no fear and read the books.
If you love Sam and Frodo, you will love the books (some of the most endearing and fantastic details are not even in the movies).

i can only say that i agree with you all!! I wish i was as well spoken as you are,i now what to say in swedish but i cant
translatet in to english. i have always have easyer to talk
and to write.I havent been written so much in english seens
highscholl and thats over 20-years ago.But it is always
a real joy to read and sometimes put in a little word here
and there!!!

Is it anyone who is wathing Baftas award tonight?
its not showing here,so i have to wait for the reports
to come in!!!

Ihave my fingers X for the hole team!!!!!:cool: :cool:

What beautiful and moving posts this morning. (((Faculty!)))

from Rikka
IMO Intelligent spectator who's able to use his/her brains in the theater would never think EW's Frodo to be a whimp... Because he NEVER was (in any of 3 movies). And for those among the audience who doesn't want to think I don't care.
Thank you for this, Rikka. You made my day! I admit that I'm one of those who fall into "Why was Frodo denied his physically demonstrable courage?" camp. I decided that, in the interests of simplifying things for a movie audience, Sam was "always" physically brave while Frodo was "always" spiritually brave -- I loved how you phrased that, Rikka:

that is just what Frodo is about for me in the book - courage and resistance of spirit and soul, not sword.

This is similar to how Pippin is "always" foolish (even though in the book Boromir is responsible for throwing the stone that alerts the Watcher in the Water to the Fellowship's presence) and Gollum is "always" crafty (instead of nearly repenting of his scheme to betray Frodo, he cleverly sets up Sam to get voted off the Island). There are more examples, but I think this was probably in PJ's mind. I personally think it would have improved the movie for me if the characters were allowed to be as rich as Tolkien wrote them, but that is my personal lament. And yes, I do feel protective of the characters the way they finally ended up being written and portrayed by Tolkien.

I loved your report of Tolkien's other visualizations of the Wiki scene, Rikka! I've never read the "LOTR" draft books. I know how much a story can change between the draft and the final version. Unlike a film producer, who has to deal with and accommodate all sorts of contributions, welcome or not ;), a book author does have pretty much the final say over his content. So I feel comfortable in believing that the final version that Tolkien shows us is the version he meant for us to read.

Gak - sorry! Babbling! Back on topic:

Elijah's expression as he hangs over the edge of Mount Doom tears my heart out every time I see it. He has indeed captured, as Rikka said,
Frodo's post-quest feeling of being guilty and being a looser and all his emotional traume and suffering.
(Hey, I'm a Rikka groupie! :k) His look there is even more effective with each viewing (I'm now up to *cough*ten*cough). It's an elegant way of expressing all that's going on in Frodo's mind. I tear up thinking it. I also tremendously enjoy the wordless scene among the Four Travelers when they return to the Shire and share a half in the Green Dragon. The gulf between the forcibly wised-up hobbits and their unknowing neighbors is painfully apparent -- with no words! Good work, guys! (All of them... even Fran!)

Other thoughts: It amazes me that Philip Pullman is such a big name. I could not get through his famous "Dark Materials" saga. When he started violating his own rules for the fantasy world he'd created in book 2, I threw the volume across the room and gave up on him. I have better things to do than to listen to some self-important bore declaim about how fantastic he is. I have run across too many of these types in science fiction. :rolleyes: (Translation for Serena: you aren't missing anything if you don't read these IMVHO over-rated books.)

Serena, regarding your speculation about why Elijah may not have read the books: I did finally read at a relatively recent press conference (sorry, I can't remember where) that Elijah did at last say that he deliberately did not read the books because he wanted to dwell in the character that Peter Jackson had created and not be influenced by how Frodo was written in the books (I'm paraphrasing his words here). I put this down in part to the kind of actor he is -- he doesn't like to ad lib, but prefers to give the director what he asks for. I'm specifically thinking of AW, where Burns encouraged his actors to improvise their lines, and EW basically said, "Um, can I not?" Perhaps Edward Burns wasn't entirely happy with his screenplay? :p Anyway, I can certainly see Elijah choosing this course of action for LOTR. It's just how he seems to prefer to work. So while Bernard Hill and Sean Astin and Ian McKellan all got changes made to the screenplay based on their input, Elijah's Frodo didn't get anything except what the writers put there. It makes me sad, because I don't agree with all of their decisions, but it's pointless to fret over it now.

And I do imagine that at least some other actors were frustrated by the books. Viggo dived in and read the books on the plane over to NZ immediately after accepting the role, no doubt frantic to play catch-up. I can't help wondering if he was disappointed to find out that his Aragorn had been similarly "wimpified" (if you buy Judy Walton's "Downsized Frodo" argument). Perhaps his regret came out in that infamous little Toronto Star interview where he said none of the actors deserved an Oscar nom because the characters weren't portrayed with the required depth or subtlety (paraphrasing). If he's comparing how most of the major male characters were ... I'll say "simplified" ... from Tolkien's work for the screenplay, then I do think I understand his frustration. But I'm speculating madly here, so I'll shut up.

Edited for Moondancer's post:

I see we picked out the same quotes from Rikka! :D Yes, I don't think reading the books will harm your enjoyment of the movie. Tolkien is very rich, and I think the people who have not yet read the books might enjoy some of the sequences that were impossible to cram into a mere 9:20-hour movie! :p

Generally I find that if I watch the movie first, it won't "ruin" the book for me, because the book is so much more layered and complex. (The exception being the "Horse Whisperer," where Robert Redford, bless his soul, actually improved the ending for me!) I guess Tom Cruise would have had to make a real impact to ruin Lestat for you -- :( I did enjoy the book and will continue to avoid the movie.

*joins Wood in crossing fingers for BAFTAs*

Juliet Waldron's is one voice. I happen not to agree with much of what she says, but an extensive discussion of the whole book vs. movie Frodo really belongs in the Trilogy thread, and I've unfortunately got too much on my plate today in RL to tackle it. Darn, because her arguments are exactly the ones I have a completely different view about. :D

She is entitled to her opinion, of course. But I like Rikka bringing in Tolkien's own 'previous' writings of the scenes, as I think it illustrates that there are more than one possible way for things to be done and still illustrate a similar point. I found so much of the heart and soul, the endurance and inner courage, the commitment and caring of my book!Frodo in film!Frodo that I was thrilled beyond measure. Perhaps it's a familiarity with oral and literary traditions, where individual lines might be changed while the themes and story stayed the same, that allow me to 'see' my Frodo where Juliet Waldron doesn't see hers. Perhaps it's because we are different people with different psychological constructs, and so we formed slightly different impressions of book!Frodo in the first place. Either way, her view is not the definitive one, any more than mine is.

Actually, I have been heartened by one thing - in all the reviews of the movie, I have yet to see anyone claim that Frodo failed when he claimed the ring. Since that is an issue that consistently arises when people are discussing the book, I am immensely impressed that both PJ's interpretation and Elijah's acting made it clear that Frodo was not able to make any other choice. The whole ring-with-stronger-acting-evil!, and Elijah's amazing acting which clearly showed Frodo struggling to resist the ring at Mount Doom, seemed to leave the audience with no other option than to believe that he had fought against it as long as was possible for anyone to fight.

So I won't worry about Ms. Waldron. Hers is the opinion of one fan, and while it is as legitimate as anyone else's, and shared by some other fans, it is by no means the definitive opinion. We'll all get to share our views on this for many moons to come. :)

Originally posted by serena
Clearly hit a raw nerve there - sorry, Tg! :eek: Had no idea PP had made any pronoucements about JRRT.
No raw nerves involved. I'm not upset about Pullman, I just don't happen to like the guy. He was on some of the panel discussions around the time that lots of different groups were naming LotR as the book of the century--with Pullman definitely on the "anti" side. Basically, he thinks Tolkien and--especially--Lewis paint too "rosy" a picture, making their works just nice little fantasy stories that don't give the readers anything difficult to deal with. I can see why his trilogy could make interesting movies, and why kids might enjoy reading it--the story's exciting and the heroes are smart, courageous adolescents. It's Pullman's attitude toward the rest of the human race I find hard to take :rolleyes: . I prefer Tolkien's view that even though we poor mortals often screw things up, we're not generally a bad lot once you get to know us :) . I could wax philosophical over their different views of humanity and why they have them, but won't (you're welcome ;) ).


I too have just read Juliet Waldron's moving and seemingly well-argued piece on TORN, and came away from it feeling sad - for Tolkien, for his character Frodo, and above all for Elijah. Mea culpa, I still haven't read LOTR, but it seems from what many here have said that film!Frodo has been downsized. I'm almost afraid now to read the books, in case they ruin the films for me for ever...
I haven't read Juliet Waldron's piece, and I don't plan to, for the same reason I'm avoiding some of the threads in the Trilogy forum. Understand that some of us have been having these discussions/debates for 5 years now, ever since the first spies started giving out rumors of what was in the screenplays!! I ranted and raved about plenty of things while the movies were being made, but now I'm more than ready to move on--especially since it's too late now to influence anything.

Even more than that, I'm not eager to start debating everything again because I've gotten to a point where I know who "my" movie-Frodo is, and how he compares (or doesn't) with "my" book-Frodo, and have come to a peace with--and a love for--both of them. I really don't want to start the process all over again!

As others have said, serena, don't let someone's opinions about the movies keep you from reading the book. The "two" Frodo's each have their good points and not-so-good points. IMHO, what the movies basically do is make Frodo 17 years younger than he is in the book, and that really makes a difference in how he acts. His faults are generally the faults of youth, while book-Frodo's faults tend to be those of middle-age, but they both have them (Tolkien didn't create any "perfect" characters). I can actually see the two as the same person, but at different points in his life, with the movies giving an "alternate history" of how things might have been if Gandalf had discovered the truth about the Ring immediately--as he does in the movie--instead of 17 years after Bilbo leaves.

As others have also said, there are some wonderful things in the book that the movies didn't have time to even touch on, and you'll find a deeper appreciation of some things that are just a stray phrase in the movies. The book is also able to give a more complete idea of how the different characters think about things--especially the hobbits, since each one becomes the POV character at various times.

(However, I'm sure I remember reading someone's view recently (not here) that Tolkien himself saw Sam as the true hero of LOTR. Maybe this is not the place to discuss that .....)
I've said somewhere (probably not here :p ) that Tolkien is something like a good parent when it comes to his characters. Rather than saying one or another is his favorite, or most important, or saying "It's too bad [name] isn't more like [another name]," he talks about each one's individual strengths (and weaknesses), rather than comparing them to each other. My absolute belief is that Tolkien purposely wrote LotR in such a way that there is no one hero, or most important character (which is why Tolkien readers have been able to argue the point for fifty years :p ). I do seem to recall someone quoting a letter where he said Sam was a hero--but IMVHO he would never have flat-out said that Sam was the hero, and if he ever used those words he must have been speaking about a specific situation and not the entire book.

And could this be the real reason Elijah took so long to read the books? if Juliet Waldron is right, the character in them was so far removed from what he was expected to portray that reading the books might have confused and quite possibly upset him...
IMHO, this was just part of how Elijah works. With the way he approaching acting, he has to "get to know" the character he's going to be playing intimately. And he seems to get to know the character from the script, which is probably why he wouldn't "ad lib" for Ed Burns--that is, he'd developed the character directly from what was in the script, so if he changed the script he'd have to change the character. In the commentary, Ed said the other actors changed the lines so they "be themselves" more comfortably--since Elijah does the complete opposite of "becoming more himself" when he acts, I doubt if that would even be something he'd be concerned with. This process is sometimes a blessing--I sure wouldn't have wanted him devoping Mikey Carver or Barney Snow from the book :eek: !

But I don't think this way of looking at characters is terribly unusual among actors. Around the time Elijah's "non-book-reading" was being talked about, Meryl Streep won some kind of recognition for her work in [geesh, now I can't remember if it was Adaptation or The Hours--probably Adaptation], and she talked in an interview about how she approached the character. She played a real person who's still alive, and she said she very specifically avoided meeting that person until after the movie was finished, because she didn't want her acting to be limited by how she saw that person. I see Elijah's avoidance of "meeting" Frodo as much the same thing. As he said, he felt as if he were living in Middle-earth each day, and reading about it would in some ways limit that experience.

I hope he does read the book some day, just because it's a great book and I think he'd like it (given that he loved The Hobbit). But I don't think reading it sooner would have necessarily been a good idea. When this subject comes up, it's often pointed out that the most knowledgeable, devoted Tolkienite in the cast was Christopher Lee, and Saruman didn't turn out to be any closer to book-Saruman than did any of the other characters (less similar than a lot of them, IMHO). So the actor having read the book isn't any kind of insurance that the character will end up closer to the book.

So, when after the Globes Elijah talked about the gratitude fans of the books had expressed to the filmmakers for not messing things up (there's a clip on frodoandsam.net), to what extent was he putting a brave face on things?
I don't think he has to put on a brave face at all. Especially regarding his own role, even the vast majority of those who wish PJ had done some things differently still see Elijah as "their" Frodo. And there have been plenty of stories of (usually middle-aged) readers acclaiming him to be exactly as they've imagined Frodo over the years.

And, let me tell you, I don't even want to think about all the ways these movies could have been messed up and weren't :eek: !

I don't know if Ms. Waldron was really that much more disappointed than most readers were, or if she was engaging in the constitutionally-protected right of Tolkien readers to pull things apart :p . I could, at this moment, write several pages on what I think is wrong with the movies--even if I limited it to things involving Frodo. (In fact, the current essay series on my website is doing something like that.) But I love these movies and am supremely grateful to those who made them possible. IMHO, it's a positive statement about the movies that we can debate, pull apart, analyze, and nitpick them, just as we've always done with the book! I can't think of many (any?) other movies that could withstand that kind of scrutiny!

Hi,
This is just a quick post to let you know that ROTK has won the highest BAFTA...Best Film...

HURRAY !!!....CONGRATULATIONS PETER JACKSON ET AL...

ROTK has also won :-
Best Adapted Screenplay
Best Cinematography
Best SFX
Orange Film of the Year ( public vote award )

Woo-Hooo !!!...

:D :D :D :D :D :D

( Unfortunately, when P J got up to get the award for Best Screenplay, the camera was positioned in such a way to be about the MOST unflattering camera angle EVER !!!...but what the Hell, he won Best Pic..what does he care ??? :D )

WooHoo!!! :D

Good for PJ! Any of our hobbit boys there too, Wendy?


http://img4.photobucket.com/albums/0603/ainon/frodo.jpg

More images (including Faramir ((erendis)) ) can be found here (http://pubnix.org/~mark/credits/). A very kind soul at CoE had posted the link. :)


((((Narya & tgshaw)))) Great posts. :) I don't plan to read that article either. I know I don't agree with the writer so I don't need to find out how much I disagree with her. :D Interesting points too, Rikka.

((serena)) go read the book already! :D Like tg said, there's no contest between the heroes of Tolkien's story and the movies ensured that there are none. The characters are rounded individuals who aren't perfect but who do do the best they can. Sam is not lesser than Frodo, Frodo is not a saint, and Aragorn (who annoyed me greatly by Book Five, may Tolkien forgive me) has his own paths to travel -- what Viggo said or did not say has no bearing on what we see on screen. For that matter, just because we see a character angsting on screen it doesn't mean that the actor is too. Frodo might be crying the loss of Gandalf; Elijah might be crying because he's thinking that if he doesn't get this scene wrapped by the 20th take then it's gonna take another 10 and he can't bear that anymore! :D Just saying, you know. :D

No need to knock Arwen, either, surely? :) We know the writers had to obey Hollywoodian conventions when they wrote the first screenplay, but once they knew where they were going, they were more than happy to rewrite and reshoot. That readiness to accept that things weren't right and do something about it says far more than whatever perceived wrongs they committed in the first place. :)

You said the true word, ainon, regarding Arwen! From what I've read in interviews, Liv herself worked to sabotage the "warrior elf" role that had been written and return to it to the original "true love" theme. Her farewell to Aragorn at Rivendell breaks my heart every time ("It was a gift; keep it."). Yes, this is a strong woman. (And thanks for the piccie!) :k

But she's no Elijah! *Yay! Scampers!* Thanks, Tg, for the comments about Meryl Streep. In a reverse take on acting method, I happen to love the movie "Apollo 13," and I got the DVD version to listen to the commentary by Jim Lovell and his wife. It was interesting to hear Marilyn Lovell say, about Tom Hanks (who portrayed Jim), "Look, he's sitting just like Jim there. That's Jim's habit of interlacing his fingers about his knees." In Hanks' case, he interviewed Lovell at length, and even brought some of his personal mannerisms to the screen. No one but Marilyn and Jim Lovell would have noticed this, but it worked for Tom to get closer to the character. As one actress said, "Everyone has their own way of working." Hurrah for the actors who find it, and do such a splendid job!

As always, more insightful posts than I know what to do with!!!

Geez. I never new that evilBay was so terrifying! My first time, and I've got evilBay sending me accusatory notes about making unwanted bids. I sent them a note suggesting that they look up the words "bid", "buy", and "iterative" in the dictionary.

But unless the seller creeps out on me, which I don't think she'll do, I HAVE A COPY OF CHILD OF THE NIGHT ON THE WAY!!!! WOO HOO!

Re: Book Frodo/Elijah and PJ's Frodo:

Peter Jackson's movies are his take on the books, with some necessary tweaking to get them to work as movies. I see him moving little things from one place to another - like Frodo's dream at Tom Bombadil's coming out of Gandalf's mouth at Minas Tirith. "Let's just go down the hill for starters" was a tribute to "We can get away from this Crack of Doom..." when Sam coaxed Frodo down the hill. The tree swallowing Merry and Pippin was Old Man Willow. Frodo's falling into the Dead Marshes was Frodo being pushed into the water by OMW. Most of what he did doesn't bother me. The "don't you let go" does somewhat, though less each time I see it. I like the idea of it meaning "don't you dare do this to me!" It was also a bookend with "Don't go where I can't follow".

As for seeing Elijah in Frodo - I took a bit of a break from the movies the past 2 weeks while my nephew had my EE's. (My sister brought them home *LAST SUNDAY* and I didn't know it until yesterday!!!) I've watched a bunch of Elijah's other movies. When I went to see RotK again yesterday, I could not see Elijah Wood for the life of me, and Frodo seemed to have grown up a whole lot since last time I saw it. Last night I put in FotR, and I *still* couldn't see EW. You're right. EW is so completely different than Frodo in movement, manner of speaking, demeanor - can you picture Frodo walking into the Green Dragon and yelling "I WANT PORN AND CHOCOLATE!"??

I continue to be drawn away from those eyes in subsequent viewings of all of the movies. The first few times I saw them, all I could see was his eyes because they're so striking. I suspect that people just don't get beyond those eyes on first, second, however many viewings. For some reason, my focus shifted a few weeks back and now I see EW's face as a whole, rather than a pair of eyes and a blur for the rest. He really does have an amazingly strong face. Council of Elrond, I particularly noticed it. Sitting next to Gandalf, Frodo did not suffer in comparison in dignity or composure.

I noticed the sequence of expressions leading up to his "I will take it!" There was nostril and eybrow acting, jaw-clenching, and some neck and cheekbone involvment too. ;) I could see on his face and in his eyes the sequence of thoughts and feelings that led up to that decison and not all of those thoughts were very nice. It was almost scary to watch.

My sister's reaction when she saw RotK yesterday :

GH didn't make her sad; her comment was "There wasn't anything left for him". She said (and it's true but I've ignored it): "If they were that dehydrated, they wouldn't have had tears" (pediatric nurse for 31 years; what can I say?). "Frodo was kind of wimpy..."

I was kind. I did not smack her. (I was driving). I did not throw her out of the car ;D. I merely said, "No, he wasn't. He simply put one foot in front of the other until he got there. His physical strength gave out before his will did".

re: EW: "That guy should get get his teeth capped. They're funny-looking". Me: "Oh, you mean like Jennifer Gray's nose? No, he shouldn't. At least you can tell him apart from the crowd!"

I still can't believe that these movies were made, or that there was so little to cringe about in them. I can't believe how close PJ's interpretation was to mine in most things. It's just beyond belief.

BTW, am I wierd because I keep seeing more and more layers of meaning in TBFA? No wonder The Lad picked that movie!

:::: going back to happily wallow in Weathertop nostril and collarbone acting again :::: ;)

~grumpy

Ainon,
Any of our hobbit boys there too, Wendy?

Yes...Billy Boyd was there...also in attendance were Andy Serkis and Sir Ian McKellan, who both presented awards to other people, Peter, Fran, and Phillippa, Barry Osbourne, and John Lesnie !!

I am enjoying the discussion about that article too..and for me, the character of Frodo was portrayed by Elijah Wood first - before I read the book...and so, my internal Frodo-image was very much dictated by Elijah's portrayal...therefore I don't know how qualified I am to give an unbiased opinion on how well or not the movie-character was written...certainly, when I read the book, just after seeing FOTR for the first time, I did not come away thinking that the Movie-Frodo was THAT different from the Frodo in the book....
Certainly, Book-Frodo was a slightly more detailed character, and got to wield his sword a little more than Elijah did in the film, but I never got the feeling that Movie-Frodo was simply NOT the book-Frodo that I liked so much...given that the reason I liked Book-Frodo was because of Elijah's portrayal, and not in spite of it, this may have something to do with that !!! ;)

I will be forever grateful to Peter Jackson, Fran Walsh, Phillippa Boyens, and Elijah, himself, of course, for giving me the gift of Book and Movie-Frodo, and these films, and no article written by someone else is going to alter that...so while I do understand how she could well have this opinion, I don't think I share it...at first, I thought she was right, but now I think she has over-simplified her case...but she is writing about her gut-feelings here, about a character she has loved for many years...

And who am I to disagree with that ?

I just thought I'd let you guys know that EvFrodo has started a thread over in the Trilogy forum to keep discussing the 'downsizing Frodo' article here (http://www.khazaddum.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=206133#post206133). I'd encourage the Faculty members who want to keep discussing it to move the book!Frodo vs movie!Frodo conversation over there - as some here have pointed out, some people really don't want to read the article and have been purposefully staying away from that kind of discussion. This doesn't prevent anyone from expressing their opinion freely and openly, it just redirects the discussion to a more appropriate forum. Thanks a bunch!

(((Faculty)))

Narya Celebrian,
I was just wrote my answer to the ladies who replayed to my post about movieFrodo, when I saw you warning. OK. I don't want to break any KZ rules. I stopped to write it and deleted.

Well, IMHO, the discussion about the EW's interpretation of Frodo's role in inside the topic of this thread, but if you say "no", than so will it be.

In this case I have to keep silence. Sorry... I don't want to join a discussion on this theme at other threads/forums. I'm too tired of those who shout in anger "He's a wimp!" I don't want to argue with them any more, to spend my strength for nothing - for I understood there is no way to convince them that this is not true. Too deep, too profound is the difference in understanding of what a real courage is between me and them.

P.S. The only thing I'd like to add to our conversation.... May be this will sound heretic for some people, but IMHO, a soul of movieFrodo in some moments is even more courageous and strong than bookFrodo's.

Originally posted by zkgrumpy
- can you picture Frodo walking into the Green Dragon and yelling "I WANT PORN AND CHOCOLATE!"??
;) Well, of course not :rolleyes: . What a ridiculous idea :rolleyes: ! I mean, really... ;) Everyone knows they didn't have chocolate in Middle-earth! :p :p

I noticed the sequence of expressions leading up to his "I will take it!" There was nostril and eybrow acting, jaw-clenching, and some neck and cheekbone involvment too. ;) I could see on his face and in his eyes the sequence of thoughts and feelings that led up to that decison and not all of those thoughts were very nice. It was almost scary to watch.
YesYesYesYes!!

I merely said, "No, he wasn't. He simply put one foot in front of the other until he got there. His physical strength gave out before his will did".
The more I see it (#9 yesterday), the more I think the essence of RotK is in Frodo's desperate, clawing, heart-breaking (his and ours) effort to pull himself up the side of Mount Doom.

re: EW: "That guy should get get his teeth capped. They're funny-looking".
Distinctive, right? Has she seen that comedian sketch from Saturday Night Live :eek: ? She probably would like his teeth in Deep Impact--but I still think the teethcapping hurt his performance. When someone acts instinctively through every muscle in his face, why throw him off his game? (And, personally, I see that little gap as a tribute to his life as a working actor--With one exception, every year since he was 8 he's made at least two movies a year; when in the world would he have worn braces?)

I still can't believe that these movies were made, or that there was so little to cringe about in them. I can't believe how close PJ's interpretation was to mine in most things. It's just beyond belief.
Sometimes I'm afraid I'll wake up... especially since it's almost too eerie that Elijah was actually cast as Frodo--as if my subconscious mind has been directing things.

Even when PJ's interpretation of the story is somewhat different from mine, his ability to recreate the look and feel of Middle-earth with all its locations and individual cultures is phenomenal. That's the aspect of these movies I'll most carry with me into the future as I read the book. And, as far as I can tell, in that aspect he's never contradicted the book--he just brings it to life. Some of it is so specifically as it is in the book that it's heartstopping--I've seen Bag End, Isengard, Rivendell, the Doors of Moria, Meduseld, the Black Gate, Minas Tirith...

BTW, am I wierd because I keep seeing more and more layers of meaning in TBFA? No wonder The Lad picked that movie!

Haven't watched that one for awhile, but I know I kept picking up new things the first few times I watched it. That's one movie that went through a lot of changes while it was being made, and I think that shows up in some minor inconsistencies. But the young cast really held the whole thing together.

--------------

Lady Wendy--Thanks for the BAFTA news!! Wonderful, wonderful!! (And I have to say, your avatar is amazingly luminous. I love seeing it! :) )

ainon--Thanks for the pic from the credits. For some reason I like it better there than on the screen--maybe because the color's deeper and more shadowed.

tgshaw,

I'm glad you like my avatar ...I kinda ,like it too !!...it's one of my favourite pics from FOTR, where they're leaving Lothlorien in their boats, and Frodo looks SOOOO sad ...and, as you say, luminous ( very good description, imo )

A little off-topic, but all you ladies in here will find this interesting, not to say a relief that a reporter has finally twigged that there are women out here !!!...

Female audience for LOTR (http://www.tolkienonline.com/docs/15387.html)

CONGRATULATIONS PJ AND CO !!!!!!!!

Far too many great (and wise) posts to reply to individually. So I'll just say thank you all for confirming what I know already - that Elijah was/is the perfect Frodo for book-readers and non-book-readers alike. That has never been at issue - I hope no-one thinks I have ever thought otherwise! :) That Frolijah is so much loved is an extraordinary tribute to the actor - all the more so in view of the “kill me now” brigade who knocked him at the beginning. And yes, it makes me very happy that Elijah is so obviously, genuinely proud of those films and his part in them. Despite my last post, I hope he has actually never doubted his character in the films in the way that some others have.

Nor would I wish to knock Arwen, either as a character or as a film creation. I like Liv and thought she made an ideal elf princess. Lovely English accent too. My only residual regret is about Arwen's saving of Frodo in FOTR (and his being reduced to a very obvious puppet at that point). That could, I feel, have been done in a way that allowed Frodo to show courage instead of total passivity. But what the hell - it's a detail in what's otherwise the most riveting and beautiful film I've ever seen (except for ROTK, possibly).

And to clear up any other lurking misunderstandings, PJ, Fran and Philippa and Barry Osborne and all the 28000 (?) people PJ said at the BAFTAs last night were involved in some way in the making of the movies have my eternal love and gratitude and admiration for accomplishing the impossible and enriching so many people's lives, including mine.

Philippa's very first statement on receiving the "best film" award at the BAFTAs last night was to pay tribute to JRRT and to make the point that the prime concern of the filmmakers was to do justice to his books. She said "Recently people have been introducing us as the writers of "Lord of the Rings". I wish I had written that book! But we were just the lucky people who got to delve into the incredible imagination and genius that is JRR Tolkien. One of his themes was friendship, and we made a lot of friends, including an incredible cast who endured a lot from us, because it was constant revisions. ....."

PJ thanked New Line and Mark Ordesky and went on to say "as well I'd like to thank our fantastic actors for just doing such tribute to the words that we scratched out. And thank you very much for Professor Tolkien's great book".

The ROTK feature included several clips specifically of Elijah talking about the film :).

Andrew Lesnie won the cinematography award - yippee! He made a very brief and modest speech - totally in character.

If anyone's interested in a VHS tape, PM me and I'll see if I can get some NTSC tapes (if necessary) and copy it. Some of the commentary (the presenter is the brilliant Stephen Fry) is hilarious, btw (several in jokes between himself and Ian McKellen ...:D). Scarlett Johansson won "best actress"for "Lost in Translation" - Elijah will be pleased at that ;).

Originally posted by Rikka
[B]Narya Celebrian,
OK. I don't want to break any KZ rules. I stopped to write it and deleted. :( :( :( :(


Well, IMHO, the discussion about the EW's interpretation of Frodo's role in inside the topic of this thread, but if you say "no", than so will it be.
I think there's a fine line between movie discussion and EW discussion and sometimes it slips over into movie discussion. I've been trying very hard to tie everything back to Elijah.


P.S. The only thing I'd like to add to our conversation.... May be this will sound heretic for some people, but IMHO, a soul of movieFrodo in some moments is even more cougeous and strong than bookFrodo's.

I think it's true that Elijah had the hardest character to portray of all of them. We understand courage with a gun or a sword, but courage without weapons is, I think, harder to understand. I'd love to know more about what PJ and co. were looking for when they cast Frodo - if it was the ability to express the soul through the eyes and expressions that Elijah's so good at (how's that for a sentence ending?!?).

In any case, PJ's interpretation, and EW's interpretation of PJ's interpretation were apparently too subtle for a lot of people. Odd, because most people are courageous without the benefit of firearms.

Back to Rikka's comment - bookFrodo used a sword - he was explicitly courageous and we understand that. movieFrodo had only EW's big blue eyes and putting one foot in front of the other to show courage. It was enough for me.

~grumpy (I wonder how different bookFrodo would have been if Tolkien had written him with a picture of Elijah in his mind?)(or, in light of discussion in the last few days, maybe he *did*.) :)

Originally posted by Rikka
Well, IMHO, the discussion about the EW's interpretation of Frodo's role in inside the topic of this thread, but if you say "no", than so will it be.

Sorry, Rikka, I didn't mean that discussion of Elijah's interpretation is off-topic here, or even some discussion of how book!Frodo and movie!Frodo could have been interpreted differently. But that article wasn't about that, but about the choices PJ made in interpreting Frodo, and whether he did it 'correctly'. It's been discussed before, and will be again, I am sure - I was only suggesting that it go to the other thread because there are a number of people who have been purposefully trying to avoid getting into it again. If y'all really want to dig deep into it, then I'm certainly not going to be able to stop you. :D

Of course, anything about Elijah's interpretation of Frodo is perfectly on-topic here!! :k :k

hi i dont now if this is the place to put this maybe not
but i just want to tell you there is poll on TORN who the real
hero is in the lotr? the answer to that is FRODO.and numb 2
is SAM they couldent have don it whith out the other:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Hi all, just popping in with a link to another review of Eternal Sunshine - again, very positive (though not much on Elijah):

http://membersites.namezero.com/exitmusic.mindspring.com/id138.html

April really can't come soon enough.

A stupid question. Will EW will be at the Oscars? Coz I was kind of looking out for him at the Baftas (go Peter et al!) and was a bit disappointed he wasn't there. (Sap. :rolleyes: )

Warning: pointless hair question follows!

UK types - did you notice EW sporting a new haircut going on in the few clips they had of him at the Baftas? Eg when he said 'I was 18, I'm now 22'? Seems he is now going for the 'Tim from The Office' type look. For The Yank perhaps? Sorry if I sound, er, obsessed.

Am also very intrigued by the suggestion of a saint role earlier on. Am not that bothered that it will lead to typecasting; if anyone can play a familiar character and bring a whole load of new stuff to it, it's EW. I get the impression though, that if anything goes ahead, we won't get confirmation for a long long time.

I missed the "Film Maker's Journey" thingy! My tivo didn't tape it even though I asked vrerrrry nicely! Help! Does anyone have a copy? They'd be willing to lend? Or sell?

Re: capping Elijah's teeth. NOOOO! There's just something fascinating about that devastatingly gourgeous face, and then he smiles and there is that adorable, all tooo human gap. He's wonderful the way he his, uncapped, untanned.

Saw RoTK for the 7th time last night. I think i was bothering the other audience members; I couldn't help sobbing out loud in a couple of spots. It broke my heart all over again.

Is anyone else feeling a sense of grief that our Frodo is gone? I swear I'm in mourning. Note to self: It is unwise to fall in love with book/movie characters.

Honey!

From Wood:but i just want to tell you there is poll on TORN who the real hero is in the lotr? the answer to that is FRODO.and numb 2
is SAM

Thank you Wood!! Everybody go to TORN and vote. Let's not let this one get away from us!! I mean, from Frodo...

Originally posted by zkgrumpy
I think it's true that Elijah had the hardest character to portray of all of them.
Yes, and not just because of the "courage issue," but because Frodo is such an internally-directed person. Which is why I was so glad when Elijah was cast... but I believe I've said that before :p .

I'd love to know more about what PJ and co. were looking for when they cast Frodo - if it was the ability to express the soul through the eyes and expressions that Elijah's so good at (how's that for a sentence ending?!?).
Well, Fran thought Elijah had "an interesting face," and PJ was looking for "magic"--but that doesn't really answer any questions, does it ;) ?

In any case, PJ's interpretation, and EW's interpretation of PJ's interpretation were apparently too subtle for a lot of people.
IMVVHO, that's not necessarily a bad thing. It comes from not "speaking down" to the audience, which was something Tolkien never did (except in The Hobbit, and he admitted afterwards that it was a bad decision even there). FES, when you've got someone who does subtlety and nuance as well as Elijah (well, guess that means when you've got Elijah ;) ), it would be a sin not to use that talent, especially when he's playing an already subtle and nuanced character.



LotR Book Spoilers





Back to Rikka's comment - bookFrodo used a sword - he was explicitly courageous and we understand that. movieFrodo had only EW's big blue eyes and putting one foot in front of the other to show courage. It was enough for me.
Something I haven't seen mentioned much is the fact that book-Frodo starts out using a sword. An important part of his character development is his moving away from that : from "I do not think it will be my part to use a sword again," to "I'll be an orc no more. Let them take me, if they will," to the part he plays in the Scouring. By the end, he's an absolute pacifist. The movies don't take him through that process: Sam ends up with Sting by default, the orc armor disappears without any comment (maybe in the EE?), and there's no Scouring to worry about.

I'm not quite sure what point I'm trying to make--maybe just that using a weapon isn't an essential part of book-Frodo; he's still very much Frodo (IMHO he's even more Frodo) after he stops using a sword. In both the book and the movies, Frodo is the only member of the Fellowship who never kills anyone. My biggest panic when I heard that F&S were going to be dropped into the middle of a battle in Osgiliath was that Frodo would kill an orc or two and change that part of himself, which I would have been very upset about.




End of LotR book spoilers


[quote]~grumpy (I wonder how different bookFrodo would have been if Tolkien had written him with a picture of Elijah in his mind?)(or, in light of discussion in the last few days, maybe he *did*.) :)
It has been pointed out that Elijah comes very close to exactly fitting the only physical description we have of Frodo (the one Gandalf gives Butterbur). :)

I think it's more likely, though, that in JRRT's thought Elijah looked like Frodo rather than the other way around--it's much easier to influence such things when you've moved on to a higher plane of existence. [ :) but not ;) ]

Hi All

just wanted to say "I'm Back!":D

It has been a year since I have had the time to peruse KD(postgrad study, new consultancy company to set up, farm to run, mother role etc etc) but I find myself in the spooky position of having sufficient bandwidth to spend some time relaxing... so here I am.

I won't post for a while because I have some serious catching up to do on this thread(you lot HAVE been busy;)
PS. Thanks for the birthday wishes from last year...'pologies for not responding.:

I've been looking for a 'the Radio Flyer movie on DVD but it's difficult to get EJW movies for my region so, I checked out my vhs video machine manual and er...found out that it's an all-type video machine (yay!).
No matter where it comes from, my machine can play it.
Why didn't I bother to check that before? I'm feeling a bit stupid now :D

Anyway, I managed to get my hands on
- Radio Flyer
- Paradise (couldn't help myself)
They arrived today.

Chain Of Fools (DVD region 2...managed to find this one on DVD) is on its way from Australia.
And ...if that wasn't enough...I've now ordered TBFA and Child of the Night on regular video through amazon.com.
:)

Any idea how or where I can get that Homicide episode on video?


Off to see Radio Flyer now.

Originally posted by azalea baggins
Hi All

just wanted to say "I'm Back!":D


I don't believe it...sis is back....mind you, I am almost as bad, lurking but not posting because I'm too behind as RL throws a wobbly

Actually sat thru the BAFTAs last night, convinced that ROTK would pick up everything!!

but, first, EW WASN'T THERE :eek:

and then :eek: :eek: PJ didn't get best director, and :confused: neither did it get best costume or best score :confused: :confused: :confused:

what on earth??? don't they recognise quality when they see it??

:mad: I could go on but my blood pressure is rising

think I'll go lurk

viola
(welcome back azalea :D )
(my felines are going to espresso :mad: )

from honeyelf
It is unwise to fall in love with book/movie characters.
LOL! Join the club!

Hello, elusive azalea baggins. Happy reading!

I hear you about blood pressure, Viola. However, the one I'm really upset about is Ngila Dickson. I think that PJ and HS have been recognized in many other ways, but I can't think of an equivalently prestigious award for costume, and they were lovely and added so much! Oh, well, let's hope she gets lots and lots of business. (Awards! :rolleyes: )

Moondancer, I feel myself weakening. Should I try to track down the remaining films I haven't seen of Elijah's? *growl * dither dither dither *

Still unviewed:

Spy Kids 3-D: Game Over (is this on video yet?)
Black and White (I've heard it's bad...)
The Witness
Day-O (natch!)
Paradise
Child in the Night
Internal Affairs
and that Homicide episode...

From Tgshaw
In both the book and the movies, Frodo is the only member of the Fellowship who never kills anyone. My biggest panic when I heard that F&S were going to be dropped into the middle of a battle in Osgiliath was that Frodo would kill an orc or two and change that part of himself, which I would have been very upset about.
I'm not sure I should be saying this in this thread now, but Amicus Plato, sed magis amica veritas. Frodo does kill Gollum in the films.

Welcome back, azalea and Viola!! :k

Not much time right now, but I wanted to give Moondancer a few words of warning about Child in the Night. Unless you were able to order a used copy someone was offering through amazon, don't count on them finding it for you. They'll try, but over the last couple of years they've never been able to.

Since the subject last came up, I hadn't heard from anyone but grumpy, so assumed she was the only one who wanted a copy--I was just going to give a "final call" and send it out when she found her "evilBay" :D copy.

Does anyone know if "homemade" DVD's can be played in any region, or are they coded? That is, if a movie's taken from VHS and put onto DVD, would the DVD be play-anywhere?

Moondancer--of all the movies you mentioned the only ones available anywhere on DVD are TBFA and CoF (the second not in USA or Canadian coding, but available on play-anywhere VCD).

Then, just saw from Mariole:

Spy Kids 3-D: Game Over (is this on video yet?) -- coming out in late February. The DVD will have both 3D and 2D versions, and will come with a few pairs of 3D glasses :)

Black and White (I've heard it's bad...) -- I'ts horrifying, disturbing and depressing, which is exactly it's aim. Since it does what it wants to do, I don't consider it a bad movie, but be prepared for a rough ride, and a sick feeling at the end. Elijah has very little screen time (most people think his best "action" comes during the closing credits ;) . Anyone who's a big Robert Downey, Jr., fan, and can stand the movie's vulgarity and violence, should consider giving it a try, though--he steals the movie!

The Witness -- The only place I know to get this is from my buddies at yesasia.com. It's on a VCD called Perverse Destiny III, that contains a number of shorts.

Day-O (natch!) -- Aaurgghhhh!! Am offering a hefty reward for this in [i]any form--have no idea what the reward would be, but I'll find something!!! I've been trying to find it for a good four years! I've had one whiff in that time, but it vanished.

Paradise -- video only, but easily available

Child in the Night -- see notes to Moondancer above. I do have this on video and will try to get it put onto DVD for those who want a copy.

Internal Affairs -- easily available on DVD, but Elijah's on the screen for only seconds.

and that Homicide episode... -- according to A&E's plans, this will actually be available on commercial DVD some time next year. They're putting out seasons 3 and 4 this year. Elijah's episode is from season 5, which they're planning to put out next year. Of course, this is the entire season of the show, so ain't cheap. Season 3 is running at $60+. -- But I think there are copies of that individual episode "floating around" (I don't have one).

Well, that ended up taking a little more time than I thought--had better get back to producing something for the boss :rolleyes: .

Another edit--Brunhild, I have no idea what the Latin (?) means, but I'd say Frodo killing Gollum is a bit open to interpretation--considering they go over the edge together (especially since Gollum attacked first). I think in court it'd be called "mutual hostility."

I suppose you could say that in the book Frodo killed Gollum, Bilbo and himself (losing the longevity power of the Ring), thousands of orcs and a maia, and caused the destruction of Rivendell and Lothlorien, but that's not quite what I had in mind.

Honey,
Saw RoTK for the 7th time last night. I think I was bothering the other audience members; I couldn't help sobbing out loud in a couple of spots. It broke my heart all over again.
Well,it IS good to see you, once again, totaly besotted with ROTK...it just doesn't do to see our Honey disillusioned with anything to do with LOTR....I hope you ENJOYED your viewing above all else !!
And this :-
It is unwise to fall in love with book/movie characters.
Well, are you mad or what ???...:D :D :D ( and I just know that you aren't serious about that statement... )
In God's name why ??? IMVHO, falling in love with Frodo was one of the best things I ever did...certainly can't fault it for enlightenment, and entertainment value:D !!!...
Just ask anyone here if they disagree with THAT statement !!!

Please don't ever regret it, because you are one of the more interesting posters on here, and at Tolkien Online.....

quote:
------------------------------------------------------------------
It is unwise to fall in love with book/movie characters.
------------------------------------------------------------------

Oh, I understand that feeling very well. It's how I felt when I read the last page of the book for the first time. It was over... But then I discovered it was possible to read it again, and have an even better experience. 34 years later I'm still getting to know Frodo. :) As layered as the movies--and Elijah's acting--are, I expect a similar relationship there.

Mariole, just thought I'd add a comment to tg's "Black and White" one. I agree it's an awfully depressing film, the subject matter is trying, and the dialogue makes 3 times more use of the f-word than Ash Wednesday ever managed. (go figure!) But the interesting thing about it is that it demonstrates Elijah's then (in)ability to ad-lib his performance believeably. That particular film left much freedom to the actors when it came to their actual dialogue and acting their roles. (Mike Tyson punches Robert Downey in the face, that supposedly was ad-libbed too :eek: ) Elijah comes across as pretty helpless on his own, without strong direction and pre-written lines to read. He has a fight with his supposed girlfriend that is really ....lame. Of course, he was quite young there, and he *was* courageous trying that kind of filmmaking out. So the film *is* interesting in that regard.

And you *will* like the end credits.


Internal Affairs is an almost equally depressing film (with a plot that just screams *predictable!* and *annoyingly unrealistic!*) I would not recommend that. Elijah's scene is tiny and he's just a small kid anyhow.


***Waves to everyone, including recent de-lurkers, and goes *Poof!****

How annoying...I had a long post ready...hit the 'submit reply' button and it threw me out (I even had to login again).

Ahem...attempt number 2

I just finished watching Radio Flyer. I only saw that movie once before and it's so great to find another EJW movie.


*** spoiler Radio Flyer ***




The three possibilities, described by tgshaw:
#1--It really happened the way the movie says it did.
#2--The younger brother died, and the older one has imagined the letters, etc., to assuage his guilt, or is even responsible for them himself.
#3--There was really only one boy, who'd disassociated from the abuse so strongly that he "invented" a brother who experienced it instead of him.

Well, from watching the movie just once a couple of years ago, I believed in scenario #2.
After the second viewing, I'm now putting my money on #3. Especially because of the things Hanks says: "History is all in the mind of the teller. Truth is all in the telling" and afterwards "well, that's the way I remember it" (stressing the word 'remember' and giving a certain look to the boys) and another clue: the turtle Samson.



*** end spoiler Radio Flyer ***


posted by tgshaw
Unless you were able to order a used copy someone was offering through amazon, don't count on them finding it for you. They'll try, but over the last couple of years they've never been able to.
Thanks for the warning. I'll see what happens.
Well, it's a used copy and amazon tells me through e-mail that I'll be getting Child of the night in March (maybe april).
I have no clue why they can ship TBFA right away and the other one not but....I'll just have to wait to see if they really have a copy for me.

posted by mariole
I feel myself weakening. Should I try to track down the remaining films I haven't seen of Elijah's? *growl * dither dither dither *
LOL
Well, I'm staying away from Black And White.
I saw Internal Affairs (I'm a bit of an Andy Garcia fan, loved it just to see him in it...:rolleyes:...superficial, I know) but Elijah Wood's part must be a 'blink and you miss it' bit. I didn't realise Elijah's in it.
I think that I saw Witness. Is that the Harrison Ford movie? Hmmm...I'll check out my videostore first. Maybe they have it.

I'm saving Paradise for tomorrow. (great line, actually. Paraside will have to wait till tomorrow).:p

Originally posted by Moondancer
I think that I saw Witness. Is that the Harrison Ford movie? Hmmm...I'll check out my videostore first. Maybe they have it.
Nope, this is a different one. It's a short (about 15 minutes long) and the two main characters are played by Gary Sinese and a young Elijah (who's completely silent throughout). I think it's actually called The Witness. It's not an easy one to watch (IIRC, someone here recently called it "the ultimate child abuse movie" :( ), but IMVHO what Sinese is able to tell us about his character--through his acting--is worth the pain. It's definitely one of the movies that belong in any discussion of "How does playing a part like that one affect a child?"

http://www.frodolivesin.us/9d9c7880.jpg

azalea! Welcome back! Just in time too, for there are all these Decipher cards to study.

And there's Viola! ((((the NZ sisters))))

And hello again, Brunhild. Well, veritas sounds Latin-ish, or I would have supposed you were quoting Elvish. ;) But I've never heard anyone accusing MovieFrodo of killing Gollum either. The movie managed to pull off that fine line between 'convenient accident' and 'Ha! I knew it! I knew they were gonna go over!' rather well, I thought.


Originally posted by tgshaw

I suppose you could say that in the book Frodo killed Gollum, Bilbo and himself (losing the longevity power of the Ring), thousands of orcs and a maia, and caused the destruction of Rivendell and Lothlorien, but that's not quite what I had in mind.

:eek:

The credit sketches are amazing, aren't they, and that's from a crebain. Can't wait to see them in their full glory when the DVD comes out.

Your mentioning 'Perverse Destiny 3' reminds me that I should scan the VCD cover for you all to see. yesasia is actually selling it openly?

---------


Here're the Decipher cards. I'll bring over more if I have time to go through Decipher tomorrow.

http://shop.decipher.com/Images/CardImages/LOTR-EN07317.jpg

http://shop.decipher.com/Images/CardImages/LOTR-EN07318.jpg

http://shop.decipher.com/Images/CardImages/LOTR-EN07325.jpg

http://shop.decipher.com/Images/CardImages/LOTR-EN07209.jpg

http://shop.decipher.com/Images/CardImages/LOTR-EN07078.jpg

http://shop.decipher.com/Images/CardImages/LOTR-EN07174.jpg

http://shop.decipher.com/Images/CardImages/LOTR-EN07175.jpg

http://shop.decipher.com/Images/CardImages/LOTR-EN07359.jpg

http://shop.decipher.com/Images/CardImages/LOTR-EN07356.jpg

Yes. The cross roads!!!

(((Mariole))), ((((Wendy)))), (((TG)))

You ladies give me hope! You're all right of course! I can read the books as many times as I like, and watch the movies over and again too. Though it might be better if I do that in the privacy of my own home, where I won't disturb less tookish individuals.

Honey!

Ainon, what gorgeous scans! Lovely. Although he's not a wicked massster, he's not. He's just a sleepy hobbit who needs his nap. Love the crossroads! :cool:

Thanks for popping in, Maeg! I appreciate all the comments on my as-yet unviewed movies. I think I will have to collect The Witness. Maybe I can rent Paradise and see if I want to own it. (I just went on a buying spree this December in pre-ROTK anxiety.)

Honey, there's nothing wrong with a great fantasy life. I'm just saying. ;) :D

LOL Mariole ... no, he ain't no wicked massster, but that's quite am ambiguous look on his face there which I quite like. ;)

Then of course it's hard not to love a card that proclaims 'Hope of Free Peoples'. :D

And nope, nothin' wrong with a great fantasy life. (((Honey)))

Originally posted by Random
http://membersites.namezero.com/exitmusic.mindspring.com/id138.html


Spent way too much time at Decipher earlier, so only just had time to read this. Thanks for sharing!

It will be most wonderful for EW to be at the Oscars and draw the attention of all cameras again this year. Oh yes. :D

Wendy, thanks for your article too! Although, gee, pity it took them that long to figure out that women and LOTR do get along. Like d'oh, it being written by two female screenwriters was just, well, insignificant. :p

A couple of links from TORn:

Some hope for an award (http://www.theonering.net/perl/newsview/3/1076990579) for Elijah, yet! :D

And a cute Rolling Stone interview with Peter Jackson where he mentions again how he really made sure to cast nice people. I suppose that explains that long gap between the time he and Fran decided that EW was the one, and the time EW finally found out he got the part. PJ was doing the 'is he nice enough' background check on Elijah Wood!

Anyway, click on the image (not a very flattering one of our boy, but PJ's looking happy) to get to the scans of the article at TORn.

http://home.ripway.com/2003-7/13204/stone.jpg (http://www.theonering.net/scrapbook/group/1321)

TORn also has some rejoinders to the Frodo write-up discussed yesterday.

(((Faculty)))) :k

Ever notice that no matter what character he's doing, he has that macho, no nonsense look to him at some time?

Am I the only one that gets tingly at the thought of it? LOL.

Almost like there's an Earth Stubborness of character. LOL. :D

to honeyelf
i just want to tell you,you are not alone to have
a great fantasy life and i can tell you its nothing wrong
with that.atleast that is what i keep talling my self evertime
i look at EW or looking at his movies.I realy dont care if the
movie isent that good as long as i can watch him.
To me this is a great way to hide from the rael world some times,
from work,housholding,three kids its just can be to much sometimes.i dont now maybe its just me who feel this way,but
this is how i feel.Just to look at him makes me feel good.But i
do get bad ???(i dont no that word,i hope you now wath i mean)
i can be his mother for gudssake but what the h........ its just
a fantasy world or??????:cool: :cool: :eek: :eek: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Wood, it's great when people find something or someone ;) to recover from the strain of RL. Our own fantasy worlds give us strength and pleasure. That is never ever bad! A big thank you to Elijah, he is the favourite denizen in my little fantasy realm.

(((Honeyelf))) :)


Ainon, many thanks for the links and the wonderful Decipher cards! :k

Tgshaw--The 'little' changes made in the CoD scene and the particular way how EJW implements them provide a very intriguing topic, IMO. I hope to read an essay about it on your site someday.

From Tgshaw
Brunhild, I have no idea what the Latin (?) means, but I'd say Frodo killing Gollum is a bit open to interpretation--considering they go over the edge together (especially since Gollum attacked first). I think in court it'd be called "mutual hostility." The Latin means "Plato is a friend, but truth is a greater friend" :). I'm not saying that film-Frodo is guilty of murder :eek:. It's just that this point is not open to interpretation in the book.

I suppose you could say that in the book Frodo killed Gollum, Bilbo and himself (losing the longevity power of the Ring), thousands of orcs and a maia, and caused the destruction of Rivendell and Lothlorien, but that's not quite what I had in mind. I can't say that because Frodo does not destroy the Ring in the book.

------------------------

ETA: Moondancer--I remember reading an interview with Hans Zimmer (?, the composer who wrote the score for Radio Flyer) in which he said it was #2.

Originally posted by ainon
Wendy, thanks for your article too! Although, gee, pity it took them that long to figure out that women and LOTR do get along. Like d'oh, it being written by two female screenwriters was just, well, insignificant. :p
Well, since there couldn't have been two female screenwriters on a fantasy movie, FGS, they probably thought Fran was short for Francis and Philippa was a typo for Philip :rolleyes: .

[Personal digression warning--Reminds me of when I was proofreader at a daily newspaper and the editor wrote one of his weekly "interesting people" columns on a new firefighter/rescue worker. In the typed copy I received--this was in the days before word processors and proofreaders actually read proofs :p --the firefighter's name was Mary. The article almost got published that way. The editor called me in and gave me what-for for not realizing the name had to be wrong because it was feminine (it was supposed to be "Mark"). I said, "I just thought it was great that the city had actually hired a woman for the job." He looked at me, said "Oh," and sent me back to work. :D :D And that actually was what I'd thought. :) End of personal digression]

Thanks for the link to the Rolling Stone article--I think I may snatch a sig quote from it (does that mean I have to take something out of my sig :( ?)

As to yesasia.com selling Perverse Destiny "openly," here's the page:
http://us.yesasia.com/en/PrdDept.aspx/pid-1001832377/did-155/code-w/section-videos/
Had to laugh at this, though, in light of the recent amazon.com discussion. When I bought my copy some months ago, they'd already chosen The Witness as the short to pull the mentioned "stars" from, but they were listed as "Gary Sinese and Elijah Wood." Guess whose name is listed first now :p ? And he doesn't say a word (but he never has to, eh? :) )!

Edit after a little more rummaging around at yesasia.com--Elijah's also listed first for Ash Wednesday and Deep Impact (as well as every movie where he should be listed first). I think there must be some bias in the customer base, as the "Customer Rating" for Ash Wednesday is five stars :eek: ! It's kind of inconsistent that they still have Elijah so far down the cast list on Chain of Fools that searching for his name doesn't bring it up--but it's temporarily out of stock, anyway.

Edited: Oh laaaaaaadieeeeees!!!!!! :p


http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3387478705&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:US:1

:::: diving behind rock as stampede worthy of the Ride of the Rohirrim thunders by :::: ;)


Originally posted by Moondancer
Thanks for the warning. I'll see what happens.
Well, it's a used copy and amazon tells me through e-mail that I'll be getting Child of the night in March (maybe april).
I have no clue why they can ship TBFA right away and the other one not but....I'll just have to wait to see if they really have a copy for me.


Child in the Night is out of print and apparently very rare. There have only been two copies (USA) available, and one UK copy since I've been looking - since - um - Early December?

I've had a request in with Amazon since then; they keep updating the send date and sending me re-authorizations. I'd also put in a request with another place - can't even remember where off-hand.

So don't hold your breath. ;) I was lucky - I came across one. When I get that one, I'll cancel my other searches and you will be one closer in what is probably a very long line waiting for copies. :p


LOL
Well, I'm staying away from Black And White.


Yeah, I'm not sure if I can take that one after Ash Wednesday.

Interesting comments about Elijah and ad-libbing. I suspect he did the movie because it was something he'd never done. He's young yet - he's got time to learn and grow. I suspect that Billy Boyd, Dom. Mon., and Orlando Bloom, not to mention Viggo, will be a good source for him. I suspect that the classicially trained British actors learn improvisation as part of their training.


I think that I saw Witness. Is that the Harrison Ford movie? Hmmm...I'll check out my videostore first. Maybe they have it.
No, that was Lucas Haas in that movie.

(great line, actually. Paraside will have to wait till tomorrow).:p

The following is absolutely true. I know because I grew up not too far from there.

A friend of mine lived in one of the little towns in Lancaster County (pronounced "LANK-ess-ter"), PA (Pennsylvania Dutch country). Every morning he went through Intercourse, PA, to get to his job in Paradise, PA.

If you don't believe me, look it up on Mapquest. :)

Still waiting for Ice Storm to arrive.

What? The video? Yeah, that too. ;D

~grumpy

Forgive me if this is the wrong place for postings of a "look at the pretty hobbit; I wonder what he's thinking" nature. :)

When Frodo is outside Shelob's lair, and he has had the battle with Gollum, just before he collapses he says "...so sorry, Sam." Was he sorry for:

a) the argument that ended in him sending Sam away?

b) does he think he cannot go on, and is apologizing to his dearest friend for failing the quest, and the loss of everything good that will entail?

I'm leaning toward the latter myself, since it is at this moment that Galadriel appears in a vision to urge him on. :confused:

Honey!

Now who is it that wants/doesn't want to see Black and White?

Is that you, mariole?

Being a packrat, even on my computer, I found a link for you so that you don't even have to go to the video store to see the end credits. :)

http://www.oddworldz.com/prizine/images/elikiss.mpg

I checked it and it still works. But you have to paste it into the address line of your browser. And it is PG.

Enjoy!

Originally posted by peaceweaver
Being a packrat, even on my computer, I found a link for you so that you don't even have to go to the video store to see the end credits. :)
Definitely Elijah's best work in the entire movie ;) (and I bet he even did it without a script :p ).

BTW--If anyone else has the problem I just did with the link (having it completely ignore the "paste" command), try hitting the "quote" button on peaceweaver's post and copying the URL straight from her "original" (without the url/url tags). It worked for me. :)

----------The following was going to be a "quick addition" when I realized I hadn't responded to Honey's question. It, uh, kinda turned into something else :o :rolleyes: .

Honey--I hope it's the second one (and I'm trying to see it that way), because I think he did what he thought was best for Sam and doesn't have anything to apologize for. But, given Frodo's personality--even in the movie, judging by that look at the coronation--he can take blame onto himself that he doesn't deserve.

From a discussion about the CU scene in the Trilogy forum, I've started piecing a few things together for myself (don't know if they'll work for anyone else). I still think it all goes back to Galadriel's "One by one, it will destroy them all." That isn't in the book--either in dialogue or in spirit, IMHO--and it seems to be the rationale behind a number of book-to-movie changes.

It's that warning from Galadriel that sends Frodo away from the Fellowship--but Sam follows him. On the stairs, there comes a point where Frodo can quite reasonably suspect that Sam's starting to be "destroyed" by the Ring (the last one of "them all"). Although I don't think Frodo's completely taken in by Gollum, his mental and physical weakness are enough to allow him to be influenced toward a suspicion/worry/fear he already has: that Sam "wants it for himself."

IIRC, the connection between "You can't help me, Sam. Not this time," in the FotR-EE and "You can't help me anymore," in RotK has already been mentioned here. When he says the lines in FotR, Frodo's planning to leave Sam behind--which doesn't work. When he says the line in RotK, Frodo has to "escalate" to sending Sam away.

But, eventually, not even sending Sam away works. He's back again (thank goodness!), and this time he's definitely coming under the influence of the Ring. So Frodo finally gets direct with Sam--which is something movie-Frodo finds awfully difficult to do on several occasions! "It would destroy you." Right back to Galadriel's warning--and at a time when Frodo can actually see her prediction coming true in Sam.

----------------

So, what's this got to do with Elijah's acting? Everything, of course :) ! We see that moment of utter exhaustion on the stairs, when Gollum takes the opportunity to start increasing his worry about Sam wanting the Ring. Frodo's body's shaking. His face tells us his mind's not in any shape to withstand anything. In the Trilogy forum, someone who isn't even all that interested in Elijah noticed that he works his hands as though he's still trying to climb.

After fighting with Gollum, Sam mentions "that Thing around your neck"--and there's no speculation needed on what Frodo's thinking there :eek: , or when Sam offers to "share the load." But at the actual moment when Frodo tells Sam to go home, he doesn't seem (IMHO) to be in that same state of mind. He's mentally and physically spent, but he's not an impersonal Ring-bearer defending his Precious.

I hear a different tone of voice in each sentence, as he sees what he needs to do (or what he believes he needs to do). A hint of realization in "No, it's you" (that is, it's Sam who needs to "get out of here," as he's telling Gollum to do). [Not exactly Jones' "You xxxx Lisa" to Steve, but not entirely unlike.] "You can't help me anymore," is a fairly blunt statement of a sad fact, IMHO delivered in somewhat the same tone as "You can't help me. Not this time," although the emotion he's trying to cover up is stronger. And during "Go home," he fights--not very successfully--to keep his voice on an even keel. Frodo's had to make hard decisions all along--from Rivendell to Caradhras to Parth Galen to the Emyn Muil to the Black Gate to Ithilien--and this is just one more (although probably the hardest). IMVHO, it hits us harder partly because it's not in the book in any form; while most of the other decisions are made differently in the movie than they are in the book, they're not completely foreign to us.

But for me, it all comes together in how Frodo talks to Sam in CU, after he sees that Sam has the Ring. He knows what Sam's experiencing--none better! He doesn't rush him, or grab him (or the Ring), or shout or make any quick moves. He acts almost as you would with a peson who doesn't really want to hurt anyone, but who's backed into a corner holding a dangerous weapon. He's firm but calm, and keeps his whole attention fixed on Sam (not on the Ring, IIRC). He finally does have to grab the Ring, which he probably realized he'd have to do, but he waits until it's within his reach so he doesn't have to make any quick moves forward. He has it almost before Sam knows what's happening. It's not til then--when Sam's back to being himself again--that Frodo finally gives him the direct message: that the Ring would destroy him. That was the reason he first tried to leave Sam behind, and then tried to send him home, but Sam's tenacity has finally forced him to be open and direct.

Now another question: When Frodo says to Sam, "The Ring is my burden. It would destroy you," is he already understanding and accepting that the Ring will destroy him? Just from the delivery of the lines--and the expression on his face--I'd say yes... but I'm not altogether certain about that.

Originally posted by tgshaw
And during "Go home," he fights--not very successfully--to keep his voice on an even keel.
I also think there are unshed tears in his eyes there.

And on the acting, I've read so many different interpretations of Frodo's motives in that scene -- which I think is due to incredible acting, portraying a number of different things simultaneously.

Now another question: When Frodo says to Sam, "The Ring is my burden. It would destroy you," is he already understanding and accepting that the Ring will destroy him? Just from the delivery of the lines--and the expression on his face--I'd say yes... but I'm not altogether certain about that.
Isn't that what Maeglian argued? I've pretty much accepted her reading of that scene -- I think it's a brilliant interpretation. ((((Maeglian))))

Mel

Originally posted by mel headstrong
I also think there are unshed tears in his eyes there.

He is definitely tearing up here. The only two times that Frodo cries or is on the verge of crying in RotK are when he is able to see past the Ring to Sam's suffering ("Go home" and "...the end of all things"). I'm trying to remember if he does anything more than tear up in TTT--IIRC, the only thing that reaches him in that film is, again, Sam's suffering, caused by Frodo's actions as on the Steps.

This is really the first time I've thought about that--the very strong impression of a weepy Frodo that we get from FotR is completely negated in the other two films!

Sharpe's Girl said:
The only two times that Frodo cries or is on the verge of crying in RotK are when he is able to see past the Ring to Sam's suffering ("Go home" and "...the end of all things").

But he also tears up during the scene in Sammath Naur. It's one of my favorite scenes in the whole triology of films. Tears stand in his eyes when he is trying to let go of the Ring, and still do when he turns to Sam and gives him that look just before he claims it. I love that moment when it all goes quiet, and you can see the tears standing, quivering in his eyes, but unshed. Wow!

But it doesn't make him weepy or weak. It takes a real Hobbit to be able to show his emotions. ;)

TG, I like the way you read that sequence of scenes, and how each leads into the other.

Honey!

http://i3.yesasia.com/assets/imgs/videos/77/p1001832377.jpg

Okay, I so have to scan my VCD cover! The pirates's version is decidedly more EW-centric. And has nothing whatsoever to do with his 'Witness' character. Or age range, even. Anyway, you'll see. Y'all better keep bugging me to get around to scanning it, though. After all, I'd been 'meaning to scan it' for two years now. :p


Honey, such questions are always welcome! I'd answer 'yes' to both. His sending Sam away had been done harshly, even if Frodo felt at the time that it was for Sam's own good. He had hurt Sam deeply, and for that, Frodo must feel immense sorrow and regret. If Frodo never returned, then that harshness would be the last thing Sam would remember of him, and Sam weeping would be Frodo's last memory of Sam. Come to think of it, the sound of Sam's weeping probably followed Frodo quite a ways as he continued the climb up the stairs, alone with Gollum.

And I'll ditto what tg and mel have said to Question 2. But clearly I've missed Maeg's thesis on this! Pray tell, where is it posted?


Originally posted by tgshaw
Now another question: When Frodo says to Sam, "The Ring is my burden. It would destroy you," is he already understanding and accepting that the Ring will destroy him? Just from the delivery of the lines--and the expression on his face--I'd say yes... but I'm not altogether certain about that.

I'd venture that he might have even already understood it from the end of TTT, although he might not have accepted it yet, then.


Today's Decipher cards. Kind of on-topic to current discussion, eh?

http://shop.decipher.com/Images/CardImages/LOTR-EN07055.jpg

http://shop.decipher.com/Images/CardImages/LOTR-EN07077.jpg

http://shop.decipher.com/Images/CardImages/LOTR-EN07066.jpg

http://shop.decipher.com/Images/CardImages/LOTR-EN07056.jpg

http://shop.decipher.com/Images/CardImages/LOTR-EN07054.jpg

http://shop.decipher.com/Images/CardImages/LOTR-EN07070.jpg

http://shop.decipher.com/Images/CardImages/LOTR-EN07057.jpg






Hey there, peaceweaver!

Godmorning!!
I have just visiting the site always and forever elijah
and i found some gourges pics on EW,i tryed to post them
here but i coudent.There was also something from an artical that sas that Peter J. in secret has askt Elijah and Andy S.to be in
KingKong what do you think about that??
:) :)

Wow TG--I'd re-copy your whole post--but I think that might be redundant (everyone go backwards instead). I like your tying those times when Frodo tells Sam he can't help him anymore together. Since there are so many echoed moments throughout the movie, it does make sense that this might be deliberate and that Frodo is being rational in a way. I hadn't put those two moments together that way before. Reading the sequence of your thoughts was helpful to me--because before that I wanted to believe the popular interpretation (in this thread) of Frodo sending Sam away for his own good--but I still have had a hard time with it. Seemed a little like wishful thinking. But all those echos, and what Galadriel said about the ring destroying the Fellowship one by one-- and Frodo not long before having watched Boromir fall. And tying in the way Frodo looked, and how "uncrazed" he was when he took the ring back from Sam....it all falls into place more comfortably. Of course I'd looked at it all in individual pieces before, but somehow it is getting more and more convincing to me. The trouble I've had with it before is not that I couldn't see the interpretation as being possible and even one I might choose, but that the filmmaker didn't show it in a way that would convince most of the audience. So I didn't know if it was Peter Jackson's intent. (I mean, we can easily think of ways to make it Frodo's intent--but what was the director's intent?). Now, with all the echos, I'm seeing that maybe it was the interpretation the director intended (which makes me much happier)--maybe just not executed clearly enough for those who don't delve into Frodo's psyche all the time to necessarily get. (Because I still have yet to hear it interpreted that way from anyone who isn't totally immersing themselves in this analysis).

Anyhow--it clicks better for me now. Thank you thank you. Now maybe I can better convince others. Because, of course, it is what I want to believe was the intended message. (Frodo does have a life of his own, so even if PJ hadn't meant for something to happen, we can still argue that Frodo meant it!! But it is easier if the director would please go along with the program!!).

I think it is interesting now that there are essays at TORN to answer the other side of the "Was Frodo Downsized" commentary posted the other day. What is heartening is how intelligent and how dedicated to Frodo (and to Elijah) both sides are. Even those who worry that he was downsized, still seem to love Elijah's being Frodo and seem to still be captivated by the movies. What it is, no matter where people stand--is passion for the character, and even when there is some criticism, there is still a sometimes confused, but definite, embracing of Elijah as Frodo. Anyhow--I appreciate the discussion, because it is from people who care. And no one I've seen questions Elijah as Frodo. (Only script and directorial choices)--and those that are speaking up all believe Frodo SHOULD be the hero (with a big bow to Sam).

Just had my 5th viewing this evening. This time I thought about ADR while watching. I just tried to imagine Elijah with headphones on watching the screen and re-recording his non-verbal "dialog." It must have been so hard--- minute after minute of moaning and groaning and whimpering and gasping and crying out and panting and ....oh my, I think it would have been hard.:eek: Actors sure have to be brave. It is one thing to vocalize within a scene. Another to stand in a studio room in street clothes with an engineer looking on and then get yourself all worked up to be convincing. Oh my :D I say, take a bow, Elijah.

Oh--I agree with Ainon. I think Frodo realized at the end of TTT that the ring was going to destroy him. I think he knew it when he talked to Sam when they were Faramir's prisoners and Sam told him to put the ring on and he said he couldn't. I think when he said I can't do this thing, in Osgiliath, he knew what was happening to him and what would continue to happen if he went on with the mission, and that that awareness was part of his desperation. I think that part of what is so touching about the last scene of him and Sam walking through the woods with Sam talking about stories and Frodo still able to smile a little...is that I think he is at that point resigned to his realization. I think he knows he will lose himself--he has already experience enough to make this plain--but he is going on , and he has for that interlude a little moment of peace, knowing he has made his choice....it is heartbreaking. This is when he is aware of his sacrifice, before the total breakdown--and he still makes the choice to go. And he can still smile for Sam.

Oh and back to topic: Elijah does it so well!! Angelically well. Elijah said something about not believing that he and Sam could be smiling at that point. But I can believe it. There is a moment of sweetness to cherish...a moment of quiet..before the storm.

I suppose I should go check out the trilogy threads for further Frodo discussions--but this is the only thread I keep up on. I will try to make sure I bring it back to Elijah;)

Thanks for the tip again, Wood. :)
Visited the site and ...nice pictures indeed!
I've never quite understood the attraction of the movie King Kong. Maybe Peter Jackson can make me understand it.
It would probably be nice for Elijah to work with Peter again, if only briefly and if only it's a very, very small part (cameo or something).

*** Paradise ***


I finished watching Paradise yesterday. (I saw it once, quite some time ago)
In one of the reviews, I've seen that this movie is a remake from a French movie and that was based on a book.
Makes me curious about the original movie; the French are usually very good at telling more intimate stories.
Also, the American movie puts the focus more on the relationship between Griffith and Johnson.
The French movie seemed to be focussing more on the relationship between the characters played by Don Johnson and Elijah Wood. I would have like to see that in the American version.

By the way, why do the Americans remake so many excellent French movies. I have no problem with remakes but the original versions are often so good that it seems a shame to remake them. Why not watch the original version with subtitles?
Three men and a baby. I hated the American version. Awful movie, compared to the charming and very funny French version.

The 2 kids in the movie are really great. Tora Birch and Elijah were a joy to watch.
I'm not a fan of Melanie Griffith and this movie did not change my mind. I was wondering what this movie would be like if another actress had taken the role. Imagine if Jodie Foster had that role perhaps.
Jodie Foster and Don Johnson? No, so I'd have to find another actor for that part too. (Before you know it, you're remaking the movie in your head).
Anyway, I think that the scenes between Don and Elijah worked much better than the scenes between Melanie and Elijah.

There are a lot of loose ends in this movie. What about the connection between Tora Birch and that woman she calls a witch. What was the point in that meeting? I was expecting them to explore it a bit more but they didn't. I guess that the storyteller wanted to point out the potential of the little girl and the fact that she didn't have to end up with the sort of life her mother is having?

But...as I said, I think that the two kid actors were really good in it, so I'm glad I have to movie if only just for them.
:)


*** /Paradise ***


Edit:
zkgrumpy
*clicks on grumpy's ebay link....checks bank account...joins stampede*
OK...placing my bid!

Thanks grumpy (here's hoping that I don't have to go too high)

Brunhild
posted by Brunhild
ETA: Moondancer--I remember reading an interview with Hans Zimmer (?, the composer who wrote the score for Radio Flyer) in which he said it was #2.
Oh, really?
So, my first impression was the right one. Thanks for letting me know.

peaceweaver
I have heard so many bad things about B&W that I prefer to stay away from it for now (saving my money for things that cause stampedes)
But...thanks very much for the Black and White clip. Enjoyable little clip!


Jeez...I keep editing this post.
tgshaw
Great post again. I wish that I could add to it but I've only seen ROTK twice. *OK, don't look so shocked!*
In my defense, I wanted to see it more but I want to be able to see the movie in a bit of peace and quiet.
The first time I saw it in the theater, I was sitting next to a man who was explaining everything to his wife and everytime I asked him (friendly) to please be quiet, he did listen but only for a few minutes.
During the second viewing, I was sitting next to a family who were crunching (I HATE popcorn. It smells awful, it tastes awful and it makes a lot of noise in your mouth...), munching and slurping (on an endless supply of cola) *the dad of the family had to go the bathroom during a crucial scene...HA! :) *
But, I'm waiting patiently for the DVD.
A lot of people seemed to be freaked out by Frodo sending away Sam but I am not one of them. :) I'm not a book purist and it did make sense to me.


And...another edit:
Ain't It Cool News has another fine review of Eternal Sunshine Of The Spotless Mind.
AICN - ESOTSM preview (http://www.aintitcool.com/display.cgi?id=17042)

ainon, Maeglian's analysis is here: completion of the character arcs (http://www.khazaddum.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2451)

RotK/Trilogy forum.

And on the acting -- I think one of the reasons there's so much disagreement about what PJ intended in the sending-Sam-away scene is that Elijah plays it pretty ambiguously. There's Ring-obsession there, definitely, but there's also caring about Sam, and probably other things. I suspect that will be a good scene for tg's screen-capping analysis when the DVD is really available!

Mel

Servus, dear colleagues,
am enjoying current discussion very much and I'm just stopping by to let you know - here's (http://www.usatoday.com/life/graphics/lord_rings/flash.htm) a little ROTR feature with tiny video interviews with PJ and Elijah (ahem, streaming :o , but not really new stuff), the trailers of all three movies and an extremely
demanding quiz ...


And thank you, Peaceweaver, for the link to the end credits of B&W - the clip shows all I want to know about it :p !

Thanks, all, for the continuing wonderful discussion. And thanks for the new card postings, Ainon! :k Thanks for the link, Mel!

Frodo does have a life of his own, so even if PJ hadn't meant for something to happen, we can still argue that Frodo meant it!! But it is easier if the director would please go along with the program!!
Wise words, Alyon. I think the Valar were definitely up to something with this movie!


*** Possible King Kong spoiler ***

What I heard was that Elijah and (I think) Billy Boyd wanted a cameo in Kong, where they could play people who got squished! Elijah thought that that would be a hoot.

*** /Possible King Kong spoiler ***

As a champion of complicated theorising, I've greatly enjoyed Tgshaw's and Maeglian's vertiginous logic. I'm afraid, though, that their explanations are a little bit too complicated to pass the Occam's test. I'd suggest a simpler reading--the one I came to after the very first viewing of RotK.

Possible book spoilers

IMO, the core of the Tower of CU episode from the book (when Frodo snatches the Ring from Sam) is 'spread' over several episodes of the film. One can see it by keeping track of the following key moments:
(1) Sam talks about sharing the burden
(2) Frodo gets delirious and accuses Sam of wanting the Ring for himself
(3) Frodo returns to his senses
(4) Frodo apologises ("You can't come between me and this doom.")
Of course, once these moments are separated, each of them triggers an independent development consistent (more or less) with the preceding movie storyline.

(1) and (2) are incorporated into the Stolen Lembas scene. The lembas nonsense (sorry, but it is nonsense) is a pretext to 'heat up' the situation. Sam promptly starts talking about the Ring--righteous indignation makes him forget about Frodo's outburst at Osgiliath. Frodo immediately suffers a severe bout of Ring Jealousy TM. It seems that he remembers Osgiliath and understands that things are going to turn ugly soon. He can contain himself long enough to send Sam away in a relatively calm but painfully ambiguous manner. Given the military situation around Anduin, "Going home" is an utterly impossible mission. The understated meaning is probably: "Go away. You can get yourself killed but at least it won't be me who kills you."

(3) corresponds to the "I'm sorry, Sam" moment in Shelob's Lair. Frodo realises what he has done and is overcome with self-reproach.

(4) takes place in the Tower itself (in a slightly expanded form).

Maybe it's too simple but I have a feeling that PJ prefers simple solutions when it comes to plot devices and character development.

TG, I noticed in your Elijah Essentials movie listing above you left out Avalon. In fact I haven't seen it discussed much here. Oversight or?

I also just noticed your "Accidental Anime Artist" sig thingy. LOL

Originally posted by Ainon:
Come to think of it, the sound of Sam's weeping probably followed Frodo quite a ways as he continued the climb up the stairs, alone with Gollum.

Snorfle! SOB!!!

And I like your thoughts on the "So sorry, Sam!" meaning BOTH!

OK, 'nother querry of a possibly innapropriate (to this forum) nature.

In the books it is Sam who offers gestures of affection, (but is really serving his beloved master in the only way he knows how given the dreadful circumstances IMHO,) while Frodo returns Sam's affection in a more reserved fashion, calling him "Sam dear" on a few occasions and eventually leaving him Bag End. Of course there is the kiss at Grey Havens, but as someone already said, that seems to mirror Galadriel's blessing of Frodo in FoTR. In the movies, Sam seems less affectionate, and Frodo is the one offering hugs, first in the boat on the Anduin, then at "the end of all things." Was this to downplay Sam's subservient role? Doesn't it seem as though Frodo would be the more reserved of the two, since he is of higher social class than Sam? Was this to make it more understandable to modern day audiences? Or was it to underscore that wonderful moment on the slopes of Mount Doom, the Ring of Fire speech?

Honey!

Another post written in "bits and pieces" all day at work--so there are probably some in-between. (I can tell the times when I should probably be keeping my mouth shut, because that's when I usually end up saying more than I should :o .):

Originally posted by Alyon
The trouble I've had with it before is not that I couldn't see the interpretation as being possible and even one I might choose, but that the filmmaker didn't show it in a way that would convince most of the audience. So I didn't know if it was Peter Jackson's intent. (I mean, we can easily think of ways to make it Frodo's intent--but what was the director's intent?). Now, with all the echos, I'm seeing that maybe it was the interpretation the director intended (which makes me much happier)--maybe just not executed clearly enough for those who don't delve into Frodo's psyche all the time to necessarily get.
This is why I think JRRT, PJ, and EJW are such a great team. IMVVHO, PJ is quite good at translating JRRT's idea of "feigned history" to the screen. Throughout the book, Tolkien tells us what happened--we're usually left to figure out the "why" ourselves. Which, IMHO, is the reason so many events in the book are still being discussed and debated 50 years later; I don't think it's an accident! Occasionally, Tolkien gives us various pieces of evidence that point to different possible conclusions--for example, why Gollum fell into the fire (besides "oops," which would be a possiblity in itself). If Tolkien had an actual answer in mind when he wrote the scene, he never gives it away, even in letters written afterward. Which, of course, is the way history is. We can look at past events and at what people have said about them, but sometimes (not always) all we can do is speculate on the true causes, even after centuries of historical research.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that the "unclearness" may not be a flaw at all. Some people read the book simply as a good story--which Tolkien said was fine with him--and some people watch the movies that way, which is probably fine with PJ :) . But there have always been people who've dug beneath the surface, read between the lines of the characters' dialog, analyzed their emotions, and debated over the meaning of certain words and phrases. IMHO, one of the marvelous things about these movies is that we can do the same things with them! Both the book and the movies have had plenty of readers/viewers who "don't delve into Frodo's psyche" at all, as well as those who do and come up with what we may see as strange opinions (such as the reader who told Tolkien that Frodo should have been hung as a traitor for claiming the Ring).

PJ may be somewhat more forthcoming about his intent--say, in the director's commentary--than JRRT was. But if we approach the movies as feigned history, what we see on screen is what happened, and it's up to us to supply the "why." We have evidence and clues, as we do in the book. I believe it's one of the benefits of having a Tolkien geek making these movies--he understands how the book works and doesn't try to make everything crystal clear to a casual moviegoer, any more than Tolkien did for casual readers. That's the only way to give the rest of us things to dig into and discuss and analyze! The casual moviegoer is given enough information to be able to follow the story, which is also what the casual reader gets. The ones who get "sucked in" and want to know more end up, well, like us :eek: .

And Elijah's a great partner in this for a couple of reasons, IMHO. One is that he usually leaves any interpretation of his acting up to the audience (a statement he's made outright, IIRC). We've heard something about his "intent" at both CoD and GH, but not from him. The GH question, I think, showed the other reason--PJ had to remind him of what he'd thought the purpose was behind the smile and nod; he couldn't remember (except that he was attempting to show Frodo with his innocence restored). IMVHO, that comes from his "intuitive" acting. When he gives us those complex emotional states that can't be labeled--especially when they change in each frame--I can't imagine that he has it all planned out beforehand. He's in the moment, and in the character--and often enough the character (especially Frodo!) doesn't understand all his own emotions.

Even if Elijah did/does purposely and knowingly plan out every iota of a line or a facial expression, we could still come up with our own interpretations--as a lot of people did with Sir Ian McK when he told us what Gandalf was feeling during Frodo's "I will take the Ring." Many people--including myself--immediately said, "No, that's not right!" and kept our different interpretations of the expression on his face at that moment. :p As I've said somewhere else, it's a good thing there was a Tolkien geek at the helm of these movies--anyone else would have run away screaming :p .

Oh and back to topic: Elijah does it so well!! Angelically well. Elijah said something about not believing that he and Sam could be smiling at that point. But I can believe it. There is a moment of sweetness to cherish...a moment of quiet..before the storm.
When they're having that conversation (on stories being told about them) in the book--right on the stairs of CU!--Frodo laughs out loud. So I can certainly believe him smiling in Ithilien; I don't think it means that he isn't taking everything very seriously--just the opposite. I agree that he knew what the Ring was doing to him, although I think in the movies his awareness is more gradual. It's interesting that the last time we see Frodo actually being "tempted" by the Ring is at the very beginning of RotK, when he pulls it out while Sam is sleeping. IMHO that pretty well echoes the book, where CU seems to be the break between the Ring tempting him and the Ring battering him (because the tempting no longer works--he understands too well what's happening).

Quite a comment on Elijah's acting that he can be so convincing during a scene he doesn't believe would happen!

------------------

A few edits--
from Mel
And on the acting -- I think one of the reasons there's so much disagreement about what PJ intended in the sending-Sam-away scene is that Elijah plays it pretty ambiguously. There's Ring-obsession there, definitely, but there's also caring about Sam, and probably other things.
Yes, yes, yes... Much better way of saying what I tried to say above in about 100 x more words :rolleyes: . Although I'd probably still use the word "complex" rather than ambiguous (or maybe both words?).
from Moondancer
By the way, why do the Americans remake so many excellent French movies. I have no problem with remakes but the original versions are often so good that it seems a shame to remake them. Why not watch the original version with subtitles?
:eek: :eek: That would mean that the regular moviegoer would have to take the effort to read something :eek: !!! Subtitled movies are only shown in little "art house" theaters here. So if someone wants to get a good box office, instead of just good reviews, the movie has to be remade. Showing the foreign version would also, of course, be saying that some filmmaker in another country could do a better job than an American... :eek: ...and we'd be expected to actually understand something about a different culture!! [All somewhat tongue in cheek, but I'm afraid all with some truth.]


from Honey
TG, I noticed in your Elijah Essentials movie listing above you left out Avalon. In fact I haven't seen it discussed much here. Oversight or?
I'm not sure what "Elijah Essentials" listing this is referring to--are you sure it isn't someone else's, or some other kind of list? :confused: [Edit of edit: Do you mean the list back on page 243 that starts with Spy Kids 3-D? If so, those are the movies that Mariole said she hadn't seen yet... Has nothing to do with how essential any of them are... But maybe that's not what you're referring to.]

I have Avalon (http://www.frodolivesin.us/id140.htm) listed as a five-star "must see" movie on my website. I think we just haven't gotten around to talking about it much in the thread.

Delurking to say that if any UK Facultiers missed the "Making of ROTK" on ITV1 last week and dont get ITV2 to watch the repeat tonight at 11.30, its on ITV1 again next Saturday at 12.30 pm.

As always, I'm greatly enjoying the discussions here. I've found that since I discovered KD, and before that Imladris/COE, my understanding of both book and film has been greatly enhanced by reading other peoples views and opinions . I'm a lazy viewer/reader and dont usually think very deeply about what I'm seeing/reading. :o But this thread certainly stimulates me to do so !

Back to lurkdom. :)

(((Faculty))) Thanks for all the extremely eloquent and interesting discussion lately, and the nice pics, ainon! Love the decipher cards!

Elijah's a great partner in this for a couple of reasons, IMHO. One is that he usually leaves any interpretation of his acting up to the audience (a statement he's made outright, IIRC). In recent discussions about Film!Frodo I've fully come to appreciate even more how ambiguous and open to interpretation Elijah's acting as Frodo really is. And I mean that as a huge compliment.

I've realized in those discussions (and in reading discussions around the net) how much interpretations of the same scene vary from one person to the next. And how much the long-time book fans each may relate quite different book themes, descriptions or statements about Frodo to one and the same film scene. I know that I for my part interpret various pivotal scenes in the very strong light of the "Endurance beyond hope" theme. It pretty much informs what I see and how I interpret Frodo from the riverbank scene at the end of FotR and till Frodo reaches Mt. Doom. Yet many of those scenes have completely different meanings to other viewers, - and they are of course equally right. There *is* no "single true and correct" interpretation. That's one of the reasons behind the recent controvercy over "Frodo having been downsized", I think. We *see* the same scenes, yet we interpret them, and Frodo, so very differently.

I find this endlessly fascinating :) , and am in danger of writing a thesis about my own admiration for and interpretation of the complete Frodo-and-Ring story arc. The only thing that saves you all from this fate, is that RL has me by the throat, and I've barely time to post, much less watch RotK (which recently disappeared from the cinema here anyway) :(

In response to your question, ainon, I've written something a while ago, nothing lately. It was here in the Faculty, and in the "Completion of the story arcs", I think, - probably more than a month ago.... The very short version is that in my view, there is a "Ring trying to corrupt, seduce and take over Frodo's mind and will" theme that continuously runs through TTT in various forms, and which in my view culminates in the multi-multi-layered "Frodo sending Sam away" scene in RotK. (Which I continue to interpret in light of the Ring's influence on the mentally, emotionally and physically exhausted Frodo). That part of the arc (IMO only!) ends when Frodo regains himself around Shelob's lair, enough to voice his "I'm so sorry" and to take vision!Galadriel's hand and decide to go on. From then on, like Tg also says, it's all about the Ring trying its darndest to crush and destroy, and Frodo knowing that full well, still accepting this as his destiny and fate, his burden - the fate he was chosen for, the one only he can achieve, though he knows he'll perish in the trying. Within that story arc, that's why he's so restrained in the Tower when Sam holds out the Ring, compared to what happens in the book.

I bow down before Elijah Wood's acting as Frodo, conscious or subconscious, planned-for or instinctive, it matters not in the end. All those extremely pivotal scenes throughout the whole trilogy where he's barely saying a word, and where so many emotions cross his face: No wonder there are differing opinions and so much basis for discussion about what's going on with Frodo in each of those scenes and in the total character arc! And what fun it is to analyse and discuss and get to know the various interpretations! :) Yes, Brunhild, I agree - the whole sequence at the CoD, it's simply analysis material enough for years to come! :)

I hope both Elijah and PJ and Philippa and Fran (not to mention Sean!) do refrain from giving us the "one intended meaning" of the various emotional RotK scenes. For instance, if they say clearly in the commentary that Frodo still has genuine hope for a return journey in the scene where he drinks the last of the water, you'd better run for cover if you don't want to hear my yell of disappointment. :rolleyes: :o So much of my interpretation of the Frodo character arc hinges on him knowing and accepting waaay before then (in fact, as of the Riverbank scene) that he's on a suicide mission from which there'll be no return.

Since I was at the Lincoln Center Q&A where Elijah was asked about the "nod," I just want to clarify what actually happened as I recall it.

Elijah was very surprised by the question--it was apparent that he had no idea of any nod and even asked whether the question was not actually about the smile. Honestly I thought he was a little embarrassed at the interest in such details. Sorry!

Sean tried to smooth it over by saying that "whatever you and your group discussed, that's the right answer," but PJ then said the nod meant, "Thank you."

Elijah, however, had clearly been thinking it over, and he came up with, "You'll be all right, without me," as his own interpretation.

So even though he didn't remember doing it, when he thought about it he did have an idea what Frodo had meant by it (and I must say, I like it better than PJ's).

And with a belated thank-you to Deluby for being absolutely right about the broadcast of "Filmmaker's Journey," which I now have taped at last, it's back to lurking for me.

(((Maeg))) mel, thank you for the link. As usual, a brilliant thesis! :k

Very upsetting about the loss of RotK from your cinemas, Maeg. But the Oscars are coming! And Spiderman is still months away! How can they pull it back now?!


Originally posted by Brunhild
Maybe it's too simple but I have a feeling that PJ prefers simple solutions when it comes to plot devices and character development.

That's a good thing in movies, isn't it? LOTR is for everyone - from the purists who're there so that they can gnash their teeth and snarl at PJ's 'revisions' ;) to the short-attention span viewer whose primary interest is 'Where's the cute one? Where is he? He's so dashing and handsome, isn't he? Where is he?' :D No matter what the motivation any member of the audience wishes to come up with, what we see on screen is painfully clear: that the Ring has now perverted and severed that most honoured of all relationships - the closest bond of friendship. After all, everyone can identify with the hurt of lost friendship.

The conclusion I took from seeing how incredible Elijah and Sean were in that lembas scene might be a little far out: I say thank goodness we don't have Frodo grabbing at the Ring and calling Sam a thief in CU after Sam's efforts to rescue him. If the CU thief scene were up there on screen, I can imagine there'd never be any end to having to explain over and over again to any newbies that Frodo wasn't some heartless, ungrateful wretch! :eek: :p

Btw, it never seemed to have occured to Frodo himself does it, that Sam might want to take the Ring from him? Gollum planted the idea, and Frodo soon saw enough signs to convince him that that was so.


Originally posted by Alyon
Oh and back to topic: Elijah does it so well!! Angelically well. Elijah said something about not believing that he and Sam could be smiling at that point. But I can believe it. There is a moment of sweetness to cherish...a moment of quiet..before the storm.

Great post, Alyon and what you're saying here - such a lovely way to put it. :) I've always loved that scene for a far simpler reason: it's sheer hobbitishness. :D How perfectly hobbity they are again there, despite what they'd had to go through! Total agreement with tg about how convincing it is in spite of Elijah trying to subvert it in ADR! ;)

-----------------------------

Honey, I don't think it's about 'downplaying Sam's subservient' role; I think in the movie although there're enough signs that Sam is Frodo's servant the primary motivation for them to be together is that they are friends. Their relationship is thus the closeness between two friends, mirroring Elijah and Sean's RL relationship. I don't know if it matters who hugs who first in such a case. I would never notice if you didn't mention it!

It all could have just boiled down to the technical level. In which case it might've been all about which type of lighting was best if Elijah hugged Sean this way, or would Elijah be filmable from this angle if he were to hug Sean that way ... ;)


-------------------------------


***links removed***

A link from TORn. Old stuff though. 'Thumbsucker' still being mentioned as his movie!



Congratulations on Senior Memberhood, Flourish! :D

For anyone who hasn't voted in the TORN poll about who is the "true hero" of LoTR, Sam is now .1% behind Frodo!!!

Go to: http://www.theonering.net

As we say in Chicago, vote early and often! :)

Sorry to have been so scarce in recent weeks, dear colleagues, RL has been a bear. Coming up for air now, so I hope to have time to actually think about the conversation. :p



waves at ainon!

Originally posted by Maeglian:

So much of my interpretation of the Frodo character arc hinges on him knowing and accepting waaay before then (in fact, as of the Riverbank scene) that he's on a suicide mission from which there'll be no return.

Mine too, Maeglian! The depiction of Frodo's courage, self-sacrifice, and knowledge of exactly what he faced was made very clear in the films, from FOTR on. Frodo says at the end of film One, while he and Sam look toward Mordor: " I suppose we'll never see them again" as he thinks of the other members of the Fellowship. That says it all. Unequivocally.

Originally posted by ainon
[B]
newbies that Frodo wasn't some heartless, ungrateful wretch! :eek: :p

The part where Frodo put the ring back on and you could see the weight pulling him down was heartbreaking. The term "my doom" was accurate, too - Frodo at one point said something like that to Sam in the book, plus in Ithilien, he said "...before I too am slain" to Faramir. Do I need to say that I marvel at Elijah's portrayal of willingly putting that horrible thing back around his neck in CU?

Btw, it never seemed to have occured to Frodo himself does it, that Sam might want to take the Ring from him?
In the book it does; he loses it a couple of times and yells at Sam, and then comes to himself with Sam kneeling in front of him crying. The old meanie. :::: ducking ::::

Gollum planted the idea, and Frodo soon saw enough signs to convince him that that was so.
It was very effective in the movie; kind of a short cut on PJ's part between two concepts.

I've always loved that scene for a far simpler reason: it's sheer hobbitishness. :D How perfectly hobbity they are again there, despite what they'd had to go through! Total agreement with tg about how convincing it is in spite of Elijah trying to subvert it in ADR! ;)

Oh, yes! YOu mean the Ithilien woods scene? Good heavens, in the book they were talking about stories on the ash hill in the middle of a river of lava!

The book makes more of this but we see some of it - Frodo and Sam at Ithilien, Merry and Pippen greeting Gandalf and THeoden and co. at Isengard, when Gandalf says, "These hobbits will sit on the edge of ruin and talk about the pleasures of the table...".

In the book, when Merry and Pippen get free during the Rohirrim/Urukai battle, when they walk toward the woods they are chatting lightly about things, as hobbits do. Plus, they were so exhausted that they sat down and had some Lembas bread. One of the funniest things to me was Legolas's take on the sequence of events from their tracks - they crawl away, get free of their bonds, run away from the battle, and then calmly sit down and have a snack (he said that, if nothing else, proved that they were hobbits), and then presumably sprout wings and fly away. :)

Another thing is when Merry wakes up in the Houses of Healing, and asks for pipeweed, and Aragorn scolds him for leaving his gear behind, and Pippen tells him that it was beside the bed and Aragorn knew it all the time. Merry said that Hobbits often don't know what to say so they talk too lightly.

After all, people still laugh in wartime.

~grumpy

Ainon wrote:
Congratulations on Senior Memberhood, Flourish!

LOL, Ainon!;) Just desserts for de-lurking, eh? That'll 'larn' me...:o

EDIT: Oops, forgot to mention Elijah there-- actually there was an Elijah lookalike on the train last night, blue eyes and all, quite disconcerting. But no, it wasn't him--too tall, facial features similar but not quite right, and anyway what would he be doing out in the suburbs!:rolleyes:

But come to think of it, there was also a PJ-lookalike driving the car next to me on the parkway this morning..... :eek: You don't think they're doing the commentary for ROTK out here on Long Island, do you??

:D

Today, I received a little package from the other side of the world.
My 'Chain of Fools' DVD arrived. :) It even has Dutch subtitles, how about that!

After reading many comments from posters here who seemed to love this movie, I decided to hunt it down and I'm glad I did.
I loved it!
That movie script must have been fun to write. It's full of crazy twists and a combination of odd characters. It reminded me a bit of Tarantino's movies.


*** Spoilers - Chain of Fools ***



It has been remarked before but why didn't it get a wider release?:confused:
It's perhaps not the greatest movie around but it's a lot better than some of the other big releases and it has a great cast,except for the guy playing Kresk.
Some of the crazy characters work better than others.

It really is a great part for Elijah. He doesn't look like a geek in it and he gets to show off his talent for comedy. It's also not a straightforward part; there's more to Mikey than being the hitman.

I love the scenes in the coffee bar, where Mikey meets his new clients (first Bollingsworth and next Kresk). Great scenes.

Another great little detail. When he meets Bollingsworth. In search of a chair, he asks another person in the bar if the other chair at that table is taken; he ends up hitting the chair on that poor guy. He grabs the chair the guy was sitting on and goes back to B's table. I love the smile on Mikey's face right then and there as if nothing has happened "I have a chair".

One of my favourite scenes is the bathroom scene. Kresk stumbles into his bathroom, looking for condoms and he finds Mikey there, his hired hitman, asking him to be his friend and if he wants to go see Cats. :D


*** End spoilers - Chain of Fools ***


Another site, talking about Elijah's possible Saint Gabriel part:
"dell'Addolorata: Elijah Wood is tipped to star in this biopic about Saint Gabriel, a young Italian Passionist monk."
http://www.darkhorizons.com/news04/040219e.php
And if you follow that link, you'll also find a link to a photobook of Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind (one Elijah photo but it has already been posted in here).

PLease help me find the picture of Barney Snow sitting up in his hospital bed and just looking at (Jenean Garafalo?). He has his pajama shirt open and he has tubes attatched to his Manly chest.

It also is a strange picture. a 14 year old boy's head stuck on a 21 year old's body. Can you tell the difference from "Flipper?" Is his chest bigger or something?

Is his body in general swoonworthy?

What I didn't espect was the Shower Scene. It sure wasn't in the book version. :eek: Was that a funny camera angle or was there an adult look to his forearms? :confused:

Hmm, can't help you with the picture you want shadowcat, but I *did* do a little research on this possible project for EW. Here is Blessed Gabriel's bio from the Catholic Encyclopedia:

"Bl. Gabriel Possenti

Pasionist student; renowned for sanctity and miracles; born at Assisi, 1 March, 1838; died 27 February, 1862, at Isola di Gran Sasso, Province of Abruzzo, Italy; son of Sante Possenti and Agnes Frisciotti; received baptism on the day of his birth and was called Francesco, the name by which he was known before entering religion, educated at the Christian Brothers' School, and at the Jesuit college at Spoleto. Immediately after the completion of his secular education, he embraced the religious state; on 21 September, 1856 he was clothed with the Passionist habit, and received the name of Gabriele dell' Addolorata. He made his religious profession on 22 September, 1857, and then began his ecclesiastical studies as a Passionist student. He was gifted with talent of a higher order and with a wonderful memory; and in his exact observance of rule, his spirit of prayer, and his fervent devotion to the Passion of our Lord, to the Holy Eucharist, and to the Dolours of the Blessed Virgin. In the sixth year of his religious life he died of consumption; his death was that of the just, holy and edifying, and he was buried in the church attached to the retreat at Isola di Gran Sasso where his remains are still entombed, and where numerous prodigies have been wrought, and numerous conversions effected, through his intercession.

Little was known of Gabriel's extraordinary spiritual gifts during his life. He was not singular, he conformed himself to the community life; he was only a fervent and exemplary Passionist novice and student hidden fromthe world in the cloister. After death, this young religious in a few years was declared venerable by the Church, thereby testifying that he had practised all the virtues in a heroic degree; and he was beatified and raised to the honours of the altar, by special privilege of the supreme pontiff before he was fifty years dead.

His solemn beatification took place on 31 May, 1908, in the Vatican basilica, in the presence of the cardinals then in Rome, of the Passionist fathers resident in Rome and of representatives from all the provinces of the congregation. Among those present were many who had known the beatified during his life, including one of his brothers, Father Norbert, C.P., his old spiritual director and confessor and Signor Dominico Tiberi, who had been miraculously cured through his intercession.

The Mass and Office in honour of Blessed Gabriel are allowed to the whole Passionist congregation, and his feast day is celebrated on 31 May. It is the express wish of Leo XIII and Pius X that he should be regarded as the chief patron of the youth of today, and especially as the patron of young religious, both novices and professed, in all that concerns their interior lives. "

I don't know about you, but it seems to me that there is NOT a lot of drama in this story. It *would* be rather an internal character to play though, something that Wood is extremely good at.

Moondancer: Congrats on getting hold of CoF! Glad you liked it. It is one of my favorite non-Frodo EW films. And I adore that scene with the chair in the coffeehouse; check carefully in the second visit to that coffeehouse, when Mikey meets Kresk: you might recognize a guy wearing a neck brace... :D

Hartelijk Groeten!

I've just exhausted my command of Dutch...

Is it going to be like the movie about st.Francis of Assisi. it was called "Brother Sun, Sister Moon." It was not a box office hit when I was in kindergarden. It was what we call nowadays a Sleeper hit. :p

hi!! just like to cheer something with you(for some reasons
i think this has been up before but im not shore)
when the eagels flys away with frodo and sam how frodo
looks like an angel i dont think any other actor could
have lookt that way just elijah with his perfect face.
i saw this movie for the fourth time yesterday and i havent
notise before just before sam carrys frodo the struggel
he do up the mountainside you can realy se how hi is pulling him self up and than collaps.and i havent seen him craying at the end
of all things before but it is tears runnig down his face.this movie
never stops surprising you. you see new things every time,
atleast i do.:rolleyes: :eek: :D

Sorry about the link, Narya. :o I should've checked the site out before posting the direct link. (((narya)))

Well, Faculty. Here it is. Elijah Wood, starring in 'Perverse Destiny III'. :D :D

http://img4.photobucket.com/albums/0603/ainon/dest.jpg

Originally quoted by Sharpe's Girl:
The only two times that Frodo cries or is on the verge of crying in RotK are when he is able to see past the Ring to Sam's suffering ("Go home" and "...the end of all things")
___________________________________________

Honey also mentioned the CofD scene - and Frodo definitely has tears in his eyes there, when he's so desperately trying to resist the overwhelming power of the Ring. And a tear actually falls:

http://www.imagemagician.com/images/blossom/CofDtear.jpg

Then there's Shelob's Lair. Frodo looks so wretched here and his eyes are full of tears:

http://www.imagemagician.com/images/blossom/SLtears1.JPG

http://www.imagemagician.com/images/blossom/SLtears2.JPG

The more I see ROTK, the more I am in awe of Elijah's performance. How he didn't get at least get nominated for a Best Actor award in any of the major ceremonies is a mystery to me! :confused:

Anyway, is anyone else as curious as I am as to when certain scenes in the trilogy were filmed? In Orlando Bloom's commentary on FOTR (his voicover is during the Shadow of the Past scene with Frodo and Gandalf in Bag End, IIRC) he was raving about Elijah, and remembering how he had seen some footage of Frodo at CofD and couldn't believe EW was only 18 or 19 when he did that. It was quite early on I think, though I know that some scenes have shots that are separated by as much as a couple of years.

Tom Parker-Bowles, writing in The Mail on Sunday said:
'He (Frodo) has grown as a character, and Wood has developed as an actor during the trilogy.'

And Ian McKellen said in his website diary:
'Elijah Wood's performance deepens and ripens.'

Yet Elijah appears to have had the ability to take Frodo to the extremes of his character arc at will - though I'm not suggesting it was easy for him to do this - he just makes it look that way. He said how scary it was when he and Sean had to 'jump' from a FOTR scene to a very emotional ROTK scene due to bad weather, but then he found he actually looked forward to doing this. I suppose my point is that although Elijah has undoubtedly learnt a lot from his LOTR experience, some of his very best work in these films was done in those early days. He showed enormous maturity in portraying Frodo's dark/Ring-influenced/tormented side so convincingly when he himself was still a teenager. His Frodo is simply heart-breaking.

Wonderful discussions everyone. I don't seem to post much these days - I get too wrapped up reading all the brilliant and thought-provoking observations on ROTK here and in the Trilogy forum. I can't add anything of worth that hasn't been said already so I lurk and take it all in and pop in now and then to say hello.

Quicksilver - I managed to tape the ROTK special on ITV2 the other night. How lovely that Elijah's last scene was in there. Lonely post-quest Frodo in Bag End - PJ saying, 'Beautiful last shot,' and he and Elijah hugging. I wonder if that was the end of principal photography or the last of the pick-ups???? Now the one I really want to see is Sean, PJ and Elijah, where Sean talks about 'The Eyes.' Has that been on in the UK yet? Anyone?

Love the cards, ainon. Thanks.:)

Must run. Bye.

Blossom. i totally agree with you!!
i cant belive that Elijah have been soo unseen for those
who deside witch actor who is to be nominated.i havent seen him be nominated in any awards,havent this guys have eyes to see
with?????:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

Does anybody in here know any Italian? Jeez...learn 4 languages and it still isn't enough. I always wanted to learn that beautiful language.
http://www.cinemovie.info/Febbraio04_Notiziario.html
(Found that link on the TORN site)

I put it through one of the Google translators and this is the dodgy result:
ELIJAH WOOD WILL BE SAINT GABRIEL Of GIVEN PAIN

The coming from Voices of corridor from cinematographic atmospheres and ecclesiastical Italians and Americans inform us that famous actor Elijah Wood, much famous as I swindle of the Trilogy de the Getlteman of Rings of Peter Jackson, is the prechosen candidate in order to interpret the role of Saint Gabriel of Given pain in one new mega the production Italian-American for the great screen with Zeffirelli, Scorzese or Mel Gibson to the direction. Saint Gabriel was the young passionista friar (not still ordered clergyman), died in odore of holiness in XIX the Century to the single age of 24 years in the Convent of the Passionisti Fathers to Island of the Great Pebble (Teramo) in Abruzzi, whose true history (not agiografica, based on the historical searches of a famous abruzzese student of Montorio To the Vomano, Teramo) is today to all, faithful and not, completely disowned. The life of the young person fraticello, in fact, intimately was interlaced to the risorgimentali vicissitudes in our history national native land. The participation of the young actor American of the Iowa pressocchè is guaranteed with certainty. Next ulterior information on the choice of Elijah Wood and the pre-production of this new great film. (SOURCE: Nicholas Facciolini - in exclusive right on Cinemovie.INFO: External contribution)

Notice the "The participation of the young actor American of the Iowa pressocchè is guaranteed with certainty" in there?
guaranteed with certainty?

¨
posted by peaceweaver
Congrats on getting hold of CoF! Glad you liked it. It is one of my favorite non-Frodo EW films. And I adore that scene with the chair in the coffeehouse; check carefully in the second visit to that coffeehouse, when Mikey meets Kresk: you might recognize a guy wearing a neck brace...

Hartelijk Groeten!

Dankje! (Dutch for thanks)
I can easily see CoF becoming one of my favourite EJW movies (not counting LOTR).
I saw a couple of scenes back in repeat and noticed the guy in the neck brace the second time. :)
It was also great fun to see the hospital chase scene between hitman #1 (Mikey) and hitman #2 in slow motion.

Originally posted by BLOSSOM
Anyway, is anyone else as curious as I am as to when certain scenes in the trilogy were filmed? In Orlando Bloom's commentary on FOTR (his voicover is during the Shadow of the Past scene with Frodo and Gandalf in Bag End, IIRC) he was raving about Elijah, and remembering how he had seen some footage of Frodo at CofD and couldn't believe EW was only 18 or 19 when he did that. It was quite early on I think, though I know that some scenes have shots that are separated by as much as a couple of years.
Some of the CoD footage was in the preview shown at the big LotR-movies bash at Cannes, before FotR was released. So some was done during primary filming, at least. That preview was kept under wraps pretty effectively, except for the press people who were allowed in, and the only report I can remember seeing is that of a "messed up" Elijah saying "in a terrible voice" "The Ring is mine." I don't think all the special effects were in at the time, and have no idea how much was reshot later. I do remember that, at the time (ahh, memories :p ), we thought NewLine was being pretty sneaky at not letting us know what they were doing with Frodo's lines just before that--so carefully worded (and reworded several times) by Tolkien--about "choose" and "will." I don't know that we even imagined the lines would be completely dropped, but the way the scene plays in the movie, IMVHO that was exactly the right thing to do; Elijah's face says what we need the words to say in the book--that [i]Frodo's not willing or choosing anything at that moment.

And Ian McKellen said in his website diary:
'Elijah Wood's performance deepens and ripens.'
I might be more apt to take Sir Ian McK's view on that than I would some of the reviewers', since he saw the process as it was taking place, not just as it shows up on screen afterward.

Yet Elijah appears to have had the ability to take Frodo to the extremes of his character arc at will - though I'm not suggesting it was easy for him to do this - he just makes it look that way... I suppose my point is that although Elijah has undoubtedly learnt a lot from his LOTR experience, [I]some of his very best work in these films was done in those early days.
Amazingly--IMHO--the Grey Havens was one of the first parts shot, because they wanted to finish Sir Ian H's scenes so he could leave. I remember, also, that either Dom or Billy talked about how difficult it was to cry so emotionally at Gandalf's departure when they'd hardly met him :) . Some of the shots without Bilbo may have been redone, but still... IMHO, Frodo's very believably haunted by everything that Elijah hasn't even shot yet. And that little scene of Bilbo and Frodo in the cart... :( :( .

Wonderful discussions everyone...
Yes--all the different ideas about the Frodo&Sam scenes have been very interesting. And I love that it's possible for different people to get so many different shades of meaning from the same scenes--IMVVHO, that's one way these movies are like the book :) .

I'm also going to use Blossom's "dropping in" comment to say that I'm going to keep doing that (how could I survive otherwise :eek: ?), but I won't be putting any March updates on my website. If I don't say that [i]publicly, I'll fall back into the "Oh, it won't take that much time" :rolleyes: line that I give myself. I'm moving (me... not the website :p ), and have to somehow get enough time away from the computer to do that. My aim is to get some other new pages up when I'm ready to add one for ESOTSM :) . -- And somewhat related, I realized yesterday that it will be about a month before I can do anything about copies of Child in the Night. So those who are still hunting for a copy can keep that in mind :) .

Quicksilver - I managed to tape the ROTK special on ITV2 the other night. How lovely that Elijah's last scene was in there. Lonely post-quest Frodo in Bag End - PJ saying, 'Beautiful last shot,' and he and Elijah hugging. I wonder if that was the end of principal photography or the last of the pick-ups
...that was the last of the pick-ups.

------------

Simulposted with Moondancer--That reads suspiciously like another dodgy translation of the first article with the dodgy translation (although the translations have interesting variations :p ). But do you think this one seems more definite than the earlier one??

Wood, I would have sent this to you by private message, but you don't have it enabled. Just so you know, if you accidentally post twice and want to remove the second one, just open your post by clicking on the 'edit' button at the bottom of your post. Then click on the 'delete?' button at the top left-hand side of your screen, and then click on the 'delete now' button at the top right hand side of your screen. That will get rid of the second post. I fixed the double posts on the last page for you. :k

(((ainon))) No problem. :k

Moondancer, I'd like to see the Italian translated by a real person on that one too - "I swindle of the Trilogy" probably has a slightly different meaning than the computer translator gave it. :p But I just can't see how they can be sure about an actor being in it when they haven't even pinned down a Director yet. Don't Director's usually make the final choices about who is going to appear in their films?

Flipper and The Good Son arrived on DVD this week. I'm hoping to have a chance to watch both this weekend, in amongst the enormous list of RL things I need to get done.

Great discussion, as always. ((((Faculty)))

This was going to be another edit, but Narya slipped in too fast :p !

ainon--I can't believe I forgot to say what a hoot that pirate DVD cover is :D :D :D ! Of course, that's exactly what Eijah looks like in The Witness, right?? ROTFLMAO :D I suppose since it's a pirate version, no one's likely to sue the producer for misrepresentation ;) .

----My DVD of The Good Son came a couple of days ago, too. I had the video, but now have a version (1) with Elijah on the cover :) and (2) that's screencappable! I think that will be my next "non-LotR" project. In fact, that's a very nice picture of Elijah on the front, isn't it? I can definitely see shades of a young Frodo there :) .


---------


I keep forgetting things :o -- scs, I'm not going to make any comments on body parts, except to say that I originally posted this pic during our study of the sternum-whatsis-mastoid muscle :rolleyes: , but I think this may be the shot you had in mind?

http://www.imagemagician.com/images/tgshaw/Previous movies/resize-cap1999.jpg

hi!!!
just wondering if anybody nows if Afilmmakers journey will
be sending here in sweden????


:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

wood, I think they're only showing it in cities with a proportionately large number of Academy viewers (London, NYC, San Francisco, and of course, LA). No other cities in the States have been able to see it yet (I live in Chicago, the #3 city in population, and I haven't seen it advertised at all). I wouldn't be surprised if my first chance to see it will be on the two-disc DVD.

Dang, that pesky Real Life! Sorry it's hounding you, peaceweaver. I keep thinking I'm coming up for air, and then it drags me back down. It's the Watcher in the Water, with 1,000 arms!!! :p

Tg, I will happily view anything on your site when it is ready. Don't worry, I'm happy to let you sort out your priorities -- particularly as you can provide musculoskeletal pics on request! :k

Ainon, your VCD cover cracked me up! Gosh, Elijah looks just like a little boy in a concentration camp in that picture ... and the gun in his hand is so accurate to the helplessness of his situation. I'm *sniff* tearing up, here ... :D

Wood, I hear you! Yes, I keep finding new things to see with each viewing. It's a very rich film, which is why I'm sure it will find many happy years of replay. At least in my house, I expect it will be running fairly continuously once the DVD comes out. ;)

from Moondancer
I can easily see CoF becoming one of my favourite EJW movies
Oh, me, too! I must confess, I often just skip ahead and view the Mikey parts, but it's a delightful absurdist comedy.

To all, I'm really enjoying your remarks as people comment on EW movies they're seeing for the first time. It's like having a lot of little presents, over and over again. Oh, I'm smiling!

*Real Life reaches in * yanks Mariole out the door with a last howl of prrreeecccccioooooouuuuuusssss....*

FRODO MEANS FRAUD IN ITALIAN !!!! :D

Just found that out. ROFL !!!

So the "I swindle of the Trilogy" is actually "Frodo della Trilogia" -"frodo" here being the 1st person singular of the verb frodare, to defraud or swindle!!! :D :D
A textbook example of the pitfalls of machine translation. Must try to work it into some paper or other for my workplace!

I guess we could have a very long discussion about the possible implications of this in Tolkien's work .........! :eek:

Well, Italian is not supposed to be one of my languages, but since you asked and since we have Eyetie dictionaries by the score lying around here, here goes:

ELIJAH WOOD TO BE SAN GABRIELE DELL'ADDOLORATA

We heard it on the grapevine: sources in film and ecclesiastical circles in Italy and the USA inform us that the celebrated actor Elijah Wood, famous for his role as Frodo in Peter Jackson's Lord of the Rings trilogy, has been chosen to play San Gabriele dell'Addolorata in a new Italian-American mega-production for the big screen, with Zeffirelli, Scorsese or Mel Gibson directing. St Gabriel was the young Passionist monk (not yet ordained priest) who died in the odour of sanctity (sic) in the 19th Century at the tender age of 24 in the Passionist monastery on Gran Sasso Island, Teramo, Abruzzo, and whose real life story (not hagiography [an account of the Life of a Saint], but based on historical research by a well-known scholar from Montorio al Vomano in Teramo, Abruzzo) is completely unknown to believers and non-believers alike. The life of the young monk was interwoven with the Risorgimento events of our national history. It is almost certain that the young American actor from Iowa will take part. Watch this space for more information on the casting of Elijah Wood and the pre-production of this great new film. (Source: Nicola Facciolini – exclusive to Cinemovie.info: external contribution)

Yep, Tg, you're dead right about its being the same text.

Note the ALMOST certain, however.
That marks it out as rumour - so far. As Narya says, the naming of three potential directors makes it look, well, a bit iffy to say the least.

Just hope he doesn’t have to have a tonsure for the role ! :D …. Not sure if I could take that after all the Elwoodian Strange Hair Phases of late :eek:
But this suggests not (a good likeness, doncha think?):
here (http://www.regione.abruzzo.it/giubileo/en/itinerari/sangabriele/convento.htm)

***Stares worriedly after the disappearing Mariole and commiserates over Real Life's sometime general peskiness*** As a matter of fact I've been carrying out a small research project over the last month or so, all thanks to RL, and relevant to this thread: I've rediscovered just how painful it really is when you bite your fingernails to the quick. I've also re-found my ability to make do and use my hands effectively without fingernails. There's a certain knack to it that I'm *sure* the subject of this thread is an expert in, too. :rolleyes: I'm hoping, though, that I've now concluded that particular experiment.


Ditto to enjoying reading about comments from people seeing EJW films for the first time. Perhaps especially CoF, which happens to be one of my favourites, too. I enjoy that kind of dark, surreal humour. :) (((Moondancer)))


Good luck moving, tg! Hope it can be done efficiently and without too much upheaval. :)


Peaceweaver, Serena, thanks for the research on Gabriel. I fully agree, there seems to be no drama at all there....... :confused: But then again, I continue to view this film-in-the-pipeline story with more than a little scepticism, given the vagueness of the information on the project.


Blossom - I loved the caps: That goes without saying. Thank you! Looking at those, I'm reminded yet again of my firm opinion as to why neither Film!Frodo nor Elijah's performance as Frodo has gotten the general recognition and praise that they fully deserve: Watching Frodo's unguarded, strong emotions in scene after scene, all that fear and pain and grief, the many, many scenes where he's crying: That's just making a lot of general moviegoers and critics far too uncomfortable. Film heros aren't supposed to *be* like that. And by extension, Elijah's phenomenal acting doesn't get recognition either. I don't think they manage to see past the uncomfortable-making pain and tears to the extremely courageous and multilayered acting underneath.

I do think it takes a lot of courage for an actor to play a role with so much raw, painful emotion continuously on display, going directly against the grain of any stereotype "action hero".

Although the mere fact that so few reviewers are *complaining* or in any way actively putting Elijah's acting down says a lot. I do believe that deep down, reviewers know he's delivering a wonderful, inspired performance, not to mention a very courageous one. It' just that giving a lot of recognition to that would be giving recognition to someone's emotional performance in the role of a character who cries a lot, and arguably fails at the end, without any happy ending. :(
From Blossom
Quicksilver - I managed to tape the ROTK special on ITV2 the other night. How lovely that Elijah's last scene was in there. Lonely post-quest Frodo in Bag End - PJ saying, 'Beautiful last shot,' and he and Elijah hugging. Oh, the envy!! :rolleyes: :D Despite LotR's popularity here, there's been not one measly little TV special or "making of" or anything such at all. There just were a couple of actor interviews around the time of the premiere where my countrymen had me cringing in embarassment with their often very inane questions. For instance, one asked Viggo Mortensen if he knew who the vikings were. :o Ack!!!


LOL at the cover to the perverse destiny thingy. Very illustrative of what the story is *not* about! But I don't think people who buy it because of the cover are losing out any, since they *do* get a good albeit *very* dark and deeply disturbing little story, after all.


PS: If Frodo means "Fraud" in Italian, then what is Frodo Baggins' name in the Italian translation of LotR? Anyone know?

Originally posted by serena
I guess we could have a very long discussion about the possible implications of this in Tolkien's work .........! :eek:
:D I'm as close as I dare to get to ROTFLMAO at the office over the translation... But it's pretty well-established that Tolkien wasn't using Italian when he named Frodo ;) .

(And thanks for the understandable translation :) . It's nice to know that computers haven't yet completely supplanted the human brain :p !)

But this suggests not (a good likeness, doncha think?):
here (http://www.regione.abruzzo.it/giubileo/en/itinerari/sangabriele/convento.htm)
I may like this one even better :) -- only one click away from the first one: http://www.regione.abruzzo.it/giubileo/en/itinerari/sangabriele/index.html This page talks about how popular he is among Italian teenagers, which could be an impetus to make a movie about him??

There are a couple of remarks that are making me very curious--especially the one about the movie being based on historical research into his "true life" rather than hagiography (which tends to be pious, "edifying" stories of saints that leave out most of what made them human); everything I've read about him so far sounds very much like hagiography. Another curiosity is the connection with the Risorgimento, which I haven't seen explained yet. I may have to find some time to slip over to the university library and see what I can find.

Originally posted by tgshaw
Another curiosity is the connection with the Risorgimento, which I haven't seen explained yet. I may have to find some time to slip over to the university library and see what I can find.

Well, this case requires really international research - that's what I found at the Possenti Society website:
The Savior of Isola

In 1860, a band of soldiers from the army of Garibaldi entered the mountain village of Isola, Italy. They began to burn and pillage the town, terrorizing it's inhabitants.

Possenti, with his seminary rector's permission, walked into the center of town, unarmed, to face the terrorists. One of the soldiers was dragging off a young woman he intended to rape when he saw Possenti and made a snickering remark about such a young monk being all alone.

Possenti quickly grabbed the soldier's revolver from his belt and ordered the marauder to release the woman. The startled soldier complied, as Possenti grabbed the revolver of another soldier who came by. Hearing the commotion, the rest of the soldiers came running in Possenti's direction, determined to overcome the rebellious monk.

At that moment a small lizard ran across the road between Possenti and the soldiers. When the lizard briefly paused, Possenti took careful aim and struck the lizard with one shot. Turning his two handguns on the approaching soldiers, Possenti commanded them to drop their weapons. Having seen his handiwork with a pistol, the soldiers complied. Possenti ordered them to put out the fires they had set, and upon finishing, marched the whole lot out of town, ordering them never to return. The grateful townspeople escorted Possenti in triumphant procession back to the seminary, thereafter referring to him as "the Savior of Isola".
There is a "St. Gabriel Possenti Society" (www.possentisociety.com) in America, which wants to make Gabriel the patron of firearm users.

Aha! :D
Hey, that somehow reminds me of a scene of Huck Finn... where the Mayor shoots a gunman, turns over to Huck and his companions and says, "Welcome to America!" :eek: ;)

http://img1.photobucket.com/albums/0903/whiteling/shot_big.jpg

(EDIT: I replaced my original description with the text of the Possenti Society. The German Heiligen-Lexikon doesn't call Garibaldi's liberation army terrorists!)

Originally posted by whiteling
...took the pistol of a soldier and shot at a lizard. Impressed of this action the soldiers released the woman and left the city.
I'm assuming they were impressed by his being able to get the pistol away from the soldier--not by his shooting at a lizard... :confused: Well, this is getting a bit more interesting. Thanks for the research :) .

Later edit: I've checked the library catalog, and it has two books listed about Gabriele Possenti: one published in 1962 and one in 1910. I've just missed the Friday closing time (well, by the time I'd get there I would have... :rolleyes: ) and may not be able to check before Monday to see if they're actually on the shelf and if they're any good. The descriptions sound suspiciously hagiographic, but you never know ;) . There are only two additional books listed on the Passionists, and both of those are about the American branch of the order. Now if we were looking for info on a Jesuit, I could find armloads of stuff :p .

Whiteling! :eek: :D

Excellent research! :) There may be a story there after all! Seems Gabriel had learned to handle guns in addition to at all times adoring and contemplating the cross and the virgin Mary?

I love that "dramatic" illustration - right out of some cowboy story, almost!

Though I can see that people were impressed with his great courage in going unarmed against the soldiers, and the fact that he saved the woman (and the village), I'm not certain that his behaviour strikes me as especially saintly at all. Doesn't exactly seem like he was a pacifist, nor that he thought prayer was the way to go in the middle of crisis. I wonder how much of this story "grew in the telling" - it does seem to have a very discernible tinge of folklore.
the patron [saint] of firearm users. Forgive me for thinking that this is a contradiction in terms if there ever was one. Though I can see where the St. Gabriel Society is coming from, after the story of his resolute actions in Isola.

Thanks for all the research and the translation from Italian.
Wow, this thread isn't called the Faculty for nothing.
Found this:
ST. GABRIEL POSSENTI
Feast: February 27
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On a summer day a little over a hundred years ago, a slim figure in a black cassock stood facing a gang of mercenaries in a small town in Piedmont, Italy. He had just disarmed one of the soldiers who was attacking a young girl, had faced the rest of the band fearlessly, then drove them all out of the village at the point of a gun. The young man was Francesco Possenti, whose father was lawyer for the Papal States and who had recently joined the Passionist Order, taking the name of Brother Gabriel.
Francesco Possenti had been the fanciest dresser in town as well as the best dancer. He was a superb horseman and an excellent marksman. Engaged to two girls at the same time and a great partygoer, he had shocked his family by announcing after his graduation that he was going to become a Passionist monk. No one believed him and expected him back within a few weeks. He stayed, and when Garibaldi's mercenaries swept down through Italy ravaging villages, Brother Gabriel showed the kind of man he was by confronting them, astonishing them with his marksmanship, and saving the small village where his monastery was located.

He had become very sick during his school years and had promised that if he got better, he would dedicate his life to God. St. Gabriel Possenti got better and forgot about it. He got sick again and made the same promise, but again got well and forgot his promise. Once, during a church procession in which a great banner of Our Lady, Help of Christians, was being carried, the eyes of Our Lady looked straight at him and he heard the words: "Keep your promise." Shaken, he remembered his promise, changed his life completely, and entered the Passionists.

He hoped to be sent to the missions after his ordination to the priesthood, but at the young age of twenty-four, he died. Canonized in 1920, he is, along with St. Aloysius, one of the patrons of youth. He was very fond of his family and is particularly remembered as a remarkable young man who, at the age of twenty, threw all aside for God, determined to become a saint.

Thought for the Day: By his courage, St. Gabriel showed that holiness is in no way opposed to the best qualities of manhood. He showed courage in very dangerous circumstances, where he could have very well been killed. We may not have to face such dangers, but we do need that kind of courage to witness to our faith on a daily basis.

From 'The Catholic One Year Bible': . . . Suddenly his face began to shine with glory, and his clothing became dazzling white, . . . a cloud covered them, blotting out the sun, and a voice from the cloud said, "This is my beloved Son. Listen to him."—Mark 9:2-3, 7

Taken from "The One Year Book of Saints" by Rev. Clifford Stevens published by Our Sunday Visitor Publishing Division, Our Sunday Visitor, Inc., Huntington, IN 46750.

Another link to a site where you can find more information on St. Gabriel. You can read a couple of reflections by a man (John J. Schweska) who wrote a book about him.
http://www.chezsuzanne.com/Gabriel/


Also, to become a Saint, it needs to be proven that this person has made miracles possible, right?
One of the reasons why Father Damian is still no saint. They can't come up with any miracles and they're not prepared to be a bit lenient (like they did with others) because Father Damian had a reputation in the Vatican for being a bit difficult, being a bit of a rebel
GEMMA GALANI
Daughter of a poor pharmacist; mother died when she was seven, her father when she was eighteen, and she took care of her seven brothers and sisters. Laywoman. Cured in her 20's of spinal tuberculosis by prayer to Saint Gabriel of Our Lady of Sorrows. Rejected by the orders to which she applied who would not believe her cure, she became a Passionist Tertiary. Stigmatist, receiving the wounds on her hands and feet each Thursday evening through Friday afternoon starting in June 1899 and continuing into 1901. Visionary; she saw her guardian angel daily, and visits from the devil who tempted her to spit on the cross and break a rosary. Her canonization faced stiff opposition by those who either disbelieved or wished to avoid attention to her visions and stigmata.

Thanks to everyone for the research on St. Gabriel - it could be an interesting role for Elijah after all, though I agree with Maeg on the pacifist issue - a gun-wielding monk is an unlikely vision!

Talking of up-and-coming Elijah projects - I read a snippet on BBC teletext yesterday that said films soon to be made in Britain were under threat because of some tax loophole that was being abused. Films already in production should be OK, but the piece stated that 'Tulip Fever,' starring Jude Law, due to start filming in April, had been affected. Of course I immediately thought of Elijah and his Hooligans/The Yank - or whatever it's title is - project, also scheduled for April, and wondered if will fall foul of this ruling. I hope not, for though I'm not sure this will be the type of film I would enjoy myself, it will be interesting to see how Elijah handles the role, which by all accounts is quite complex, and how his performance is received critically etc. Early reports on his role in ESOTSM have been very encouraging, stating how un-Frodo-like his character is. YES - like all the work he did BEFORE LOTR - all un-Frodo-like, varied, and, with one or two exceptions,* beautifully executed by our boy.
*B&W??? - OK, that was after LOTR principal filming, I think - but not one of his better choices, IMO.

Maeg, it's such a shame you haven't seen any of the TV ROTK documentaries. In the ITV special the other night, they featured the clip including those lovely caps deluby posted, when Elijah, Dom and Billy were crouched in front of a hobbit-hole wearing their beautiful post-quest clothes. You know the caps I mean, where Elijah stands up and they all walk away laughing. It was lovely to see that in motion. The three of them were crouched there, and there was a shot of a cameraman/photgrapher calling instructions to them. Cut back to the hobbit boys. Elijah and Dom were quite close to each other, and Elijah moved his hand slightly to place it over Dom's gloved hand. Someone made a comment (indecipherable) off-camera I think, at which Elijah jumped up, followed by Dom and Billy, all laughing. Lovely.

For those of you in the UK, Ian McKellen will be on Parkinson tonight - BBC1, 10.30pm. Wouldn't you all just LOVE to see Elijah on Parky? I would. Perhaps one day...

Have a good week-end eveyone.

Tg - Happy moving.:)

Bye.

After simulposting with Blossom--I'm hoping that a lot of those documentaries will show up on one or the other DVD (and some people can't understand why I buy both versions :rolleyes: .) [Thanks for wishes on the moving--but it reminds me that it's time I got up from the computer and did something about it ;) .]


Moondancer--Thanks for adding even more interesting details. This guy could make a movie character yet! :)

Originally posted by Maeglian
Though I can see that people were impressed with his great courage in going unarmed against the soldiers, and the fact that he saved the woman (and the village), I'm not certain that his behaviour strikes me as especially saintly at all. Doesn't exactly seem like he was a pacifist, nor that he thought prayer was the way to go in the middle of crisis...


There are a lot of different ways to be "saintly." Risking your life to save another person (while also living a holy life otherwise) doesn't hurt. Although it's interesting that the more "hagiographic" stories of Gabriele's life don't mention
this incident--possibly because it doesn't fit the more common conception of saintliness? (Saint Therese's sisters expunged all her difficulties and temptations from her autobiography after she died, because they didn't think they sounded "saintly" enough, while IMO they're exactly what makes her a saint. They've been restored in recent editions of the book, thank goodness!)

Taken by itself, the following would be off-topic. But in context, it may answer a few questions (or bring up more ;) ).



More than you ever wanted to know about canonization of saints--to end of post








Miracles through the person's intercession (asking him/her to pray for you) are necessary for canonization unless the person's a martyr (dies because of practicing his or her faith), which doesn't have to be limited to being thrown to the lions in the Roman coliseum. Maximilian Kolbe was canonized as a martyr for substituting himself for another prisoner in a WWII concentration camp when the guard was "teaching a lesson" by killing prisoners randomly (by locking them up with no food or water). He was canonized several years ago after a debate over whether he could actually be said to have died because of practicing his faith. The canon lawyers finally decided that when Jesus said there's no greater love than to lay down your life for someone, he meant it :rolleyes: --which may open the door to some others (maybe even Father Damien?). unsuccessfully tried to save the young woman and the village and gotten himself killed in the process, he might have been canonized more easily.]

All the steps that are necessary for canonization make some sense in light of the fact that it's an official statement by the Church saying "We're certain this person is in heaven"--which is quite a statement to make about anyone. As a Catholic myself, I'm very glad that in 2000 years the Church has never done the opposite--that is, there's no way to officially say "We're certain someone's in hell." [BTW, IMHO this difference greatly affected how Tolkien set up his cosmos, as well as how he treated his characters. But that's another whole topic--like this isn't :rolleyes: ?]

As a Franciscan myself, I find it kind of humorous that it was Saint Francis who "caused" the complicated rules to be set up. He was the last saint canonized by public acclamation at his death--that is, everybody just knew he was a saint, no process needed. While Francis wasn't a rebel, he was decidedly a nonconformist. Canon lawyers tend to be notoriously conformist, and evidently decided, "Well, we can't let that happen again," and instituted the rules which, not incidentally, give them control over the process :rolleyes: . (That's a generalization; I have a friend who's a canon lawyer and decidedly nonconformist, which probably means he'll never be a canon lawyer in Rome--although I'd very happily eat those words :) .)

Of course, the rules and the process don't have any effect on the person involved--which is the reason I can poke fun at the canon lawyers about their "process" rather than being incensed about it. Not being canonized doesn't mean the person's not in heaven [ :eek: Yoicks!! Most of us would be in big trouble!! :eek: ]. Canonization's really just a way to give us still-earthbound folks some examples of holy living--which is why IMVHO it's good there are all kinds of saints (some more "saintly" than others).

Hello all!

May I say how much I've missed you?! And thanks to everyone who wished me a happy birthday -- I feel terrible that I haven't responded until now, but for some reason, I stopped getting the new post notices from K-D, so I didn't know that there were any. It seemed very odd to me that The Faculty hadn't had any posts at all for 2 weeks, but I've been kind of busy in RL and didn't investigate until now. Imagine my horror to find that I've missed so much wonderful discussion! So today's my day to catch up.

Please forgive me if the conversation has already moved off this topic, but I did want to include one little comment regarding the "wimpification of Frodo". I guess it hadn't occurred to me when reading the book but it does now that I've seen the film and considered PJ's alternative -- but heroic Frodo on Weathertop and afterwards, at the Ford of Bruinen doesn't make any sense. Frodo is 3'6". He has never held a sword in all his life before this. So why would we assume that a) he would take on the WiKi like he's some sort of mini-Ahnold and b) he could ride a full-sized horse while a shard of the Morgul blade is working its way through his body? These are places in the book where Tolkien makes Frodo a less than believable character and Pete's (and Elijah's) version makes his plight far more true to his stature and situation. Also, it should be remembered that the time lapse has been extremely compressed in the film, so movie!Frodo sickens more quickly and could never ever be able to ride himself to the Ford by himself.

I wanted to also point out to these folks who believe that movie!Frodo is a wimp that book!Frodo is extremely reluctant to take on the quest. When Gandalf is in Bag End and telling Frodo about Sauron and the Ring, Frodo is not exactly receptive to the idea of going anywhere outside his comfy existence. In fact, he winges and complains the whole time and makes himself into a real jerk. By comparison, what does movie!Frodo say? "Then the ring cannot stay in the Shire"...and..."What must I do?" He never once shirks his responsibility to take on the quest or complains.

Anyway, on a sort of OT note -- is anyone else here going to the TORn party?

:) Good to have you back, Achila!

And thanks for your 'wimpification' post. There's a thread for it in the trilogy section of this forum so I won't get into it here but I feel protective of both Frodo's: if somebody says something negative about either one of them (book Frodo or movie Frodo), my heart skips a beat and I feel the need to defend them.
It's very silly of me, I think... :rolleyes: :D ...but I can't help myself.

Well who cares about competitions? Supposedly, I do not. In reality I sure watched the "Who was the real hero?" poll at TORN pretty closely. Frodo was ahead while Sam crept up until last I looked last night, Samwise squeaked to the front. This morning there is a new poll---"Which actor do you think will get the first post LotR Oscar?" With just over 100 votes posted, Elijah is leading.

To make some amends for my two overly wordy posts today :rolleyes: , I'm editing this in at the beginning of the second one about 7 hours later. Here's a screencap from the "featurette" on the DVD of The Good Son. Look like anyone we know :p ?

http://www.imagemagician.com/images/tgshaw/outtakes/pdvd-0.jpg



----------Feel free to skip over the following wordy post :o !


Hello again, Achila--wondered where you'd been hiding :p .

Since I'm obviously still sitting here :o -- no disagreements with your post, but maybe a bit of context. I guess I'm hoping that there's a way to believe that neither incarnation of Frodo is either wimpish or ridiculous

------Alyon and Moondancer posted while I was writing--it's probably obvious that I have the same reactions regarding either Frodo that Moondancer does :) . I may be repeating some things, as I haven't read the other thread (thinking that I'd already made all the comments I could :rolleyes: :o ):


FotR Book Spoilers to End of Post (Is there anyone who still needs these warnings??)







About leaving home
Earlier (I think in this thread) I mentioned that "both Frodos" have their faults--while movie-Frodo's faults are those of youth, book-Frodo's are those of middle-age. And, yes, he does have a hard time leaving--he's been "The" Mr. Baggins of Bag End for 17 years and has been quite happy as part of the landed gentry, although he's curious about the rest of the world. It's an age when a person's probably not going to be as anxious for adventures as he might have been when he'd just come of age, as movie-Frodo has. IMHO, complaining has a tendency to increase, too, as a person gets older (although I think the complaining has to be taken piece by piece--some of it is meant as humor and some of it he apologizes for). And during "The Shadow of the Past," I see a great deal of his complaining and arguing as coming from the fact that he's willing and able to talk back to Gandalf, and disagree with him, something I think movie-Frodo would have a hard time doing (most likely because of age, and because Gandalf is made so much into a mentor/father figure for him in the movies--somehow, I just can't imagine movie-Frodo having an argument with Gandalf).

Besides the age factor, the "two Frodos" are asked to do two very different things when they originally leave Bag End. Movie-Frodo's aim is to meet up with Gandalf in Bree. The trip to Rivendell, and then the remainder of the Quest are added as the story goes on. When book-Frodo leaves, he's looking at a life of exile, to never see the Shire again. (He sells Bag End--to the SB's :eek: !) He doesn't know at that point that he'll be taking the Ring to Mount Doom, but he expects to spend the rest of his life "drawing danger after him" to keep it away from the Shire. Given the differences in what leaving Bag End means to them, IMHO it's realistically going to be much harder for book-Frodo to leave.

It's been postulated that a good part of book-Frodo's reluctance to leave is an effect of the Ring (the Nazgul are hunting for it by then). Book-Frodo has been carrying the Ring in his pocket for 17 years, and is definitely more affected by it at that point than is movie-Frodo, who's been keeping it in a trunk for the amount of time it takes Gandalf to ride to Minas Tirith and back. The fireplace incident makes it pretty clear that the Ring would be able to cause book-Frodo's reluctance to leave if it "wanted" to.


About Weathertop and the Ford
IMVHO, there's a tendency to think of book-Frodo as being more able to make choices at those two times than he really was. Frodo (in both "incarnations") has an extraordinarily strong will, or he wouldn't have been able to do all that he did. But at Weathertop he's confronting the direct will of 5 Nazgul and, at the Ford, all 9 of them.

At Weathertop, he fights against the temptation to put on the Ring, but can't stop himself. He doesn't decide to enter the wraith world and confront the Nazgul--they effectively bring him there, I'd imagine so they can see him and so more easily get the Ring from him. Once there, Frodo sees the Nazgul face-to-face and "desperately" (Tolkien's word) draws his sword. The WiKi "sprang forward and bore down on Frodo," at which moment "Frodo threw himself forward on the ground... struck at the feet of his enemy." It's just MHO, but to me this sounds more like a terrified hobbit than an action hero :( .

At the Ford, it's also the united will of the Nazgul that forces him to stop at the side of the river instead of riding away: "In any case, he felt that he was commanded urgently to halt. Hatred again stirred in him, but he had no longer the strength to refuse." As on Weathertop, Frodo doesn't decide to face the Nazgul--it's their call (literally). He does try to put on a bit of a front of not being frightened. He's not very convincing--especially to the Nazgul--but there's really no way he can make his situation any worse by doing so.

So far, I've left out the most important thing Frodo does in both instances, but the movie omits it, too: calling on Elbereth. That seems to be the cause of the "shriek" of the Nazgul on Weathertop; afterward, Aragorn says that the name of Elbereth was more deadly to the WiKi than the sword. He makes that statement before the flight to the Ford, so Frodo might very well think of it as the one thing that could help. The name is potent enough that, at the Ford, the WiKi strikes Frodo dumb immediately after he says it once--I've always assumed so he can't say it again (but that's my own interpretation).

----I've never been one to accuse movie-Frodo of wimpiness, although it took some thought and assistance from other people's ideas for me to make sense of Weathertop in the movie. But IMHO that doesn't mean book-Frodo wasn't being reasonable in the situations he was stuck with. PJ and Elijah had to make the fear and compulsion visible, while in the book we can be told about Frodo's fear and desperation without having to see it externally.

Mardi Gras Parade (http://www.artofbacchus.com/04orderpg.htm) thingy about an autographed ring.

http://www.artofbacchus.com/04ringtxt2.jpg

:)



Welcome back, Achila, despite your e-mail's best attempts to keep you from us!

That's a cute kid in your post, tg. ;) Anything interesting in the featurette? And thank you very, very much for your most wonderfully wordy Frodo post. You always bring out the best in both versions of our Frodo. :k

I saw the movie again yesterday. I had a great seat with a perfect centre view of the screen, but there was a couple to my left that yacked incessantly - the girl (clearly a newbie who nonetheless had her info straight based on movie lore) was keeping up a running commentary to her boyfriend :rolleyes: , and to my right was a group of girls who were there to sigh over Legolas: preferably of course the HoH scene when Legolas appears in the doorway. Legolas' name is not uttered by Frodo (at least we don't see him saying it) and I'm suspecting it's part of PJ and the editor's eternal wisdom -- no need to have Elijah say it when millions of girls around the world will dreamily say it for him; how's that for interactive audience participation? :D Anyway, back to the yacking couple on my left - in the CU scene when Frodo takes the Ring back from Sam, the girl solemnly informs her boyfriend that Frodo's the only one who could possibly bear the burden of that Ring, but even then there're moments when he stumbles. I felt so very proud of her. ;)

I've also seen Saturday Night Live hosted by Elijah Wood! Very happy that Elijah a) did not embarrass me :D (always a concern when actors go and do these silly skits) and b) was very funny. :D

(((Bridget)))

Originally posted by Maeglian

LOL at the cover to the perverse destiny thingy. Very illustrative of what the story is *not* about! But I don't think people who buy it because of the cover are losing out any, since they *do* get a good albeit *very* dark and deeply disturbing little story, after all.

More likely they'll be horribly confused ... where the hey is Elijah Wood?! :p :D Although I was charmed by the effort the pirates put into ensuring that buyers would recognise the 'star' of the show, never mind the age range. I will confess that when I bought that VCD, I was nervously wondering if there was some dark secret acting job that Elijah undertook prior to LOTR that no one ever knew about - a title like 'Perverse Destiny' conjures up some really troubling images! LOL.

Blossom - B&W was before LOTR. Let's all hope and pray that Elijah will never, ever, ever make a choice like B&W ever again.

Alyon, thanks for the poll info. ---"Which actor do you think will get the first post LotR Oscar?" sounds like our kind of poll, all right. :cool:

Oh, another thank you to tg for telling us about canonization. So that's how it works. And Happy Moving and Happy Packing! :)

(((Mariole)))

Although I've been informed what the New Orleans event is all about, the combination of "Bacchus" and "Elijah Wood" conjures up such, - ahem - vivid mythology-inspired images in my head that I have a hard time chasing them away. It'll probably help when we get pictures from the event itself,- that would be later today, or tomorrow, my time?Legolas' name is not uttered by Frodo (at least we don't see him saying it) and I'm suspecting it's part of PJ and the editor's eternal wisdom -- no need to have Elijah say it when millions of girls around the world will dreamily say it for him; how's that for interactive audience participation? ROTFLMAO! I think you *must* be right! And it continues later on, when Legolas shows up wearing that coronet-thingy at the coronation, and Aragorn's "Hannon Le" (?) isn't translated by means of subtitles. More for the interactive fangirsls to do - translating those words as they think fit the story and Legolas best!

Seriously, I don't mean to ridicule Legolas fangirls! I'm too much of a Frodo fangirl myself to do that! :o Book Frodo, film Frodo, Frolijah. I love and admire them all. Each in their own right. :)


Alyon, I've done my duty and voted over at TorN.


I'm kind of warming to this St. Gabriel idea. Simply because I'd love to see Elijah in that scene that Whiteling posted the drawing from. :)

hi!!
have voted for elijah over at torn
but i have to say im not cure what it means can they give
post-oscar?
:( :( :(

or am i just dum?:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :cool:

Hi, Wood. The TORn poll is just people guessing who will win the first Oscar after ROTK, but for some other movie. post=after. :)

Thanks everyone for the St. Gabriel research. Blossom, I hope that documentary you mention ends up on one of the DVDs. Here's what I believe we have in store:

1. Regular ROTK DVD which I assume will include broadcast specials like the one mentioned (because the others did).
2. ROTK EE DVD which will contain unique interviews and specials -- and the blooper tape, if Eru is merciful.
3. This super-combo set coming out next year that is supposed to have yet even some more extra specials on it. No info on this, but I might as well throw my money in the street right now, because I am so buying it.

Stupid cheap shot: I saw Miracle last night -- a very good movie. It wasn't Field of Dreams for hockey :D, but it was still interesting. Anyhow, director Gavin O'Connor apparently loves close-ups as much as PJ. I'm watching this movie of all these young hockey guys (and their coaches) getting zoomed in on, and I'm thinking, "Ya know, PJ's guys looked a lot better under this kind of scrutiny." I never noticed close-ups before LOTR. I realize now (after getting dizzy watching Miracle) that it's a tricky thing to pull off well. I continue to be delighted with PJ's directing in two chief regards: (1) his ability to successfully focus in on an individual character and get that personality across with limited screentime and often little dialog, and (2) his understanding of special effects, so that they were integrated into the story instead of overwhelming it. I noticed this right away in FOTR, and just sat there thinking, "Thank God." My initial delight got me hooked on these movies, and I am doomed to love them forever. Oh, well! :D

from ainon
I've also seen Saturday Night Live hosted by Elijah Wood! Very happy that Elijah a) did not embarrass me (always a concern when actors go and do these silly skits) and b) was very funny.
Guilty of the same thoughts! I really enjoyed his performance, which says a lot. I usually can't take the pressure of live shows (seriously! I'm a wimp!). Oh, and I will add: I loved his singing, also!

from Maeglian
Book Frodo, film Frodo, Frolijah. I love and admire them all. Each in their own right.
:p Right now I'm rereading FOTR from the beginning. It is astounding to me how different book!Frodo is from movie!Frodo. Book!Merry is another big change. They are both so much more mature -- they sound completely different. Sam and Pippin, being younger, sound more like their movie counterparts. It's interesting reading it from the post-movie perspective. My "book!Frodo" is back, and he doesn't look like Elijah Wood. Which is a relief, frankly; I love to watch Elijah on screen, but I want "mature Frodo" in my head when I'm reading the book. That's how I envisioned him, and I'm glad he's still there. (((both Frodos)))

Tg, lovely post and cute little dickens! Say-- wasn't that the kid in Perverse Destiny III? ;) :D

Yes, Alyon, I don't care about competitions either and I did the exact same thing. Argh.

Welcome back, Achila! Yes, RL has been very active for many of us. Quit it! *Tries to brush RL off, fails, goes whimpering back to her manual...*

Whoops, edit to account for Mariole's simulpost (yes, Mariole, I am so buying it too. Don't care HOW crazy my friends think I am ... IF they find out ... wanders off thinking of hiding places for all 7 LOTR DVDs - no, 8 - got one in 2 language versions :D

:) Wood's question now answered. Which reminds me of this:
from Maeglian:
Watching Frodo's unguarded, strong emotions in scene after scene, all that fear and pain and grief, the many, many scenes where he's crying: That's just making a lot of general moviegoers and critics far too uncomfortable. Film heros aren't supposed to *be* like that. And by extension, Elijah's phenomenal acting doesn't get recognition either, - they don't manage to see past the uncomfortable-making pain and tears to the extremely courageous and multilayered acting underneath.

Strange, isn’t it? But, interestingly, people at TORN didn’t think Elijah was the No 1 hope for an Oscar, but they do seem to think (so far) he’ll be the first to get one for a later movie. [Vote now if you haven’t already!]
Part of it may also be the odd fact that it’s seen as perfectly normal for very young female actors like Keisha Castle-Hughes and Scarlett Johansson to be nominated as Best Actress, but that Elijah is still supposedly too young for Best Actor. :confused:

from Maeglian:
I've realized in those discussions (and in reading discussions around the net) how much interpretations of the same scene vary from one person to the next.

Don’t they just? And not just scenes, but the entire movie trilogy. I’ve been flabbergasted at how differently different people see things. A friend who was in our group at my first (very ignorant) FOTR viewing has never bothered to see the rest of the trilogy because it was “boring”. I’ve now seen LOTR theatre versions a total of 23 times. We have similar tastes in lots of things, such as music, but this ….?? It never ceases to amaze me. But that’s what makes people so fascinating.

If Frodo means "Fraud" in Italian, then what is Frodo Baggins' name in the Italian translation of LotR? Anyone know?

Apparently it’s Frodo Baggins. See the Italian LOTR site (http://www.ilsignoredeglianelli.it/)
At least the first name sounds Italian, even if it does mean something less than flattering and, well, not exactly appropriate!

And Elijah as Bacchus – er, yes, Maeg, I’ve been having much the same sort of thoughts and not succeeding too well in suppressing them ;).
Question: is Elijah Wood Apollo or Dionysus? Or a bit of each? :D

Great research on St Gabriel, Moondancer, Whiteling, Tg – and thanks, Tg, for the treatise on canonisation. So you’re a Franciscan – a secular one, presumably? :) Looking forward to your continued thoughts on Elijah’s putative saintly project, which shows distinct epic potential - I hope it really happens :)!

Hope Hooligans still happens as well, Blossom, tax or no tax …….

And you’re right about the other pic, Tg – I didn’t link to that one simply because someone (Moondancer?) did so a few pages back.

So St Gabriel Possenti is clearly very well known amongst Catholics at least – not forgotten at all, as I initially took the Italian text to mean. So what it presumably means is that his REAL life story – as distinct from the hagiography – is virtually unknown. So I’ve gone back and edited the translation to say “… whose real life story … is completely unknown to believers and non-believers alike”.

Shooting at lizards: yes, this looks un-PC, not to say cruel, on the face of it. But presumably it was the only way G. had of convincing the assailants he was someone to contend with rather than just an innocent (ergo helpless) young monk, and getting them to leave instead of pillage. It seems he sacrificed the lizard for the sake of the girl – and the lives of the rest of the villagers too.

Wonderful ongoing “downsized Frodo?” discussion. So many wise words I can’t begin to acknowledge them all. And since, as Tg says, the topic has everything to do with Elijah’s acting, I’d contend that it belongs here more than anywhere else :). But will have to post something on that later, or this will be too long. And that will be the very last thing I ever write on the subject. Honest !!!

(((Moondancer))), I do so sympathise about posts that disappear when you hit the "submit" button. That has reduced me to fits of rage and despair several times. So now I try to remember to copy the lot just before I try to post it. Which means I'll probably forget this time and lose it, famous last words being what they are ....

Originally posted by serena
Hope Hooligans still happens as well, Blossom, tax or no tax …….


This was posted on the Always & Forever site today. The little article came from People Magazine.
It's okay for now if you still see Elijah Wood as Frodo Baggins -- just don't make it a hobbit. 'People see me as being 18 or 19 years old,' says the Lord of the Rings star., who's now all of 23. But the actor's trying to change that perception. He recently signed to star in The Yank, a film set in the world of British soccer. His character, an expelled Harvard student who drifts to London, 'becomes quiet violent and loves it.' Wood, who tells me he's now in 'fight training' for the film, is also excited by another upcoming role. 'They asked me to be the King of Bacchus at Mardi Gras,' he says. 'That's something I just can't pass up.'

So now I've amused myself watching the RotK trailer dubbed in Italian. The guy who dubbed Frodo didn't have anything near Elijah's voice. But sure enough, Frodo's original name is retained in Italian. Which is really strange, especially when it has such an unintended meaning! After all, his whole name or at least his family name has been changed in all 3 Scandinavian languages, German and French. Sorry! :o I find translation matters fascinating, probably having to do with the small number of people who speak my own language.

Serena, I'd say Appolo wins, hands down. Have you ever seen a picture of the Dionysos/Bacchus painting of Rubens' in the Louvre? Enough to send anyone running (screaming) for the hills! :D
...he's now in 'fight training' for the film... Suddenly imagining kick-boxing Lij. It's an interesting image. I'm really hoping this film will be good, and have a good story and even message; - that it's not mostly random violence.
This super-combo set coming out next year that is supposed to have yet even some more extra specials on it. Mariole, wanna bet *that* one is the one with the blooper reel? And possibly Elijah's audition tape? No matter, I'm buying it anyway. New Line has had a secure source of income in me since late December 2001. Lots of cinema visits, all the DVDs, most of the official books including the "Art of books", several posters, even some action figures.

Wishing you all a nice upcoming week!

Did you guys ever get the webcam link for the parade tonight? eekfrenzy posted them originally. The pictures aren't great, but it might be fun to try and see something. The sound certainly works. There's a parade running right now.


Here's the actual parade schedules:

http://www.nola.com/bourbocam/other/?/paradecam/other/showschedule_tvguide04.ssf


And this is supposed to be the link to the Bacchus cam, which starts later this afternoon.

http://www.nola.com/paradecam/index.ssf/video

I have a friend from Italy who visited me last September, and good Ringer and Lij devotee that I am, I made it my business to convert her to the Cult of Wood. She had told me that she didn't care for the LOTR movies and thought that maybe it had to do with the dubbing -- she especially didn't like the actor who dubbed Frodo. However, the minute that she listened to the movies in English, she was hooked. I then proceeded to show her some of our other Wood treasures -- Bumblebee, The Ice Storm and Huckleberry Finn -- and whadya know? She's now a fan too!

They're going over the parade run-down right now, and mentioned Elijah.


EDIT: Elijah went by! :) Lousy picture, but you could tell it was him when they did a close up. He was wearing a gold and white outfit, white cape (reminded me of Elvis :D ), and might even have been wearing tights. :p He got a lot of cheers and seemed to enjoy the limelight with outstretched arms and tossing of lots of dubloons (or rings, whatever).

Originally posted by serena
Part of it may also be the odd fact that it’s seen as perfectly normal for very young female actors like Keisha Castle-Hughes and Scarlett Johansson to be nominated as Best Actress, but that Elijah is still supposedly too young for Best Actor. :confused:
...because at Elijah's age, most actresses are at their "peak" and will be has-beens in a few years. The film industry prefers its females young. There are exceptions, of course, and hopefully will be more in the future as we baby boomers get older and want to see people our age on screen. It has more to do with discrimination against older actresses than against younger actors.

So you’re a Franciscan – a secular one, presumably? :)
An SFO, indeed. How nice--most people have never heard of us! :) (Yes, after getting kicked out of two religious orders, it was pretty clear I'm not cut out for living in community ;) .)

So St Gabriel Possenti is clearly very well known amongst Catholics at least – not forgotten at all, as I initially took the Italian text to mean.
From the websites that have been linked to, he seems to be pretty well-known in Italy, anyway. This connection with Elijah is the first time I've ever heard of him. I hope the gun lobby doesn't take him over (I'm assuming they're the ones who called Garibaldi's army terrorists? See, it's hard to argue against using a gun when terrorists are involved :rolleyes: ). OTOH, I've always rather liked the fact that Martin of Tours, who's the official patron saint of soldiers, quit the army when he became a Christian ;) ; it was the Roman army, but post-Constantine, so persecuting Christians was no longer in the job description.

Wonderful ongoing “downsized Frodo?” discussion...
serena--You're one I was wondering about when I asked if we still needed to post warnings for book spoilers (hint, hint ;) ).

from Mariole
Right now I'm rereading FOTR from the beginning. It is astounding to me how different book!Frodo is from movie!Frodo. Book!Merry is another big change. They are both so much more mature -- they sound completely different. Sam and Pippin, being younger, sound more like their movie counterparts.
Believe it or not, Merry and Sam are almost exactly the same age (born within a year of each other). But Merry seems to have always been very mature for his age [waves to Ezzie :) ]. When he was helping Frodo "evict" people after The Party, he was only eighteen, which would have made him barely an adolescent for a hobbit, and he was already able to deal with unwanted guests and out-banter Cousin Frodo :p .

Tg, lovely post and cute little dickens! Say-- wasn't that the kid in Perverse Destiny III?
Yes, but in The Good Son he uses scissors instead of a gun... trying to keep a straight face here... :p

BTW, on ainon's question about the featurette on TGS DVD, there's nothing earth-shaking. No new tidbits of Elijah knowledge. The director said nice things about both boys, and the boys said nice things about him, and talked a little about their characters. The director talked a lot about the safety measures they took with two 12-year-olds doing their own stunts (hanging off a cliff, etc.). I imagine he wanted to quell any worries people might have.

There was one little "flash forward" that I enjoyed. When they're filming the scene at the ice skating pond, there's a very light snow falling and Elijah (not in character) says, "I love the snow!" Seems he still does :) . I haven't watched the whole movie on the DVD yet, but just in the parts I saw I couldn't believe how many Froshadowings there were! It's a bit strange sometimes re-watching Elijah's earlier movies now, because a lot of them I haven't seen since before FotR so this is the first time I'm watching them with any LotR movies in mind.

But even with his natural talent, IMHO it's very possible to tell that Elijah's acting has improved since TGS. There's enough generic mouth-pursing that after awhile the expression started reminding me that he was acting--not a problem I usually have with him. The director had done mostly psychological thrillers (which kind of fits), but it didn't sound as if he was used to working with children, so maybe the directing had something to do with the relative lack of specific facial expressions. As a comparison, Huck Finn also does a fair amount of "mouth pursing," but it's always specific to the situation and what's going on in Huck's mind.

from ainon
B&W was before LOTR. Let's all hope and pray that Elijah will never, ever, ever make a choice like B&W ever again.
Yes, like another movie we could name but won't ;) . Anyway, I think B&W was a very experimental move for Elijah--to try a completely different kind of acting. I wonder if he's now too "visible" to do something that risky again, at least on film (as opposed to possibly on stage)? He seems to have learned his lesson, though--that he does better if he sticks to a script :) .

And, ainon, very interesting audience participation idea at the HoH :) . The only trouble with it is that it effectively demolishes my carefully built ;) theory in the Trilogy forum about Frodo thinking he's dead when he wakes up. The first person he sees is Gandalf, whom he thinks is dead (and Gandalf is all transformed, which would just make that seem more likely). Then Merry and Pippin come in, and the last time Frodo saw them they were being chased by a pack of Uruk-hai, so it wouldn't be too surprising to find them in the afterlife. Then Gimli--I don't remember what Tolkien says about what happens to dwarves when they die, so I can't speak to that one. But Frodo calls all those people by name. Then comes Legolas, and Frodo just looks at him--maybe trying to figure out why he's seeing an elf?? My theory is that seeing Legolas is what first tips Frodo off to the fact that he's not in the Timeless Halls after all. (And all that light and gold and white when he first wakes up makes it seem awfully "heavenly.")

from Maeg
I'm really hoping this film will be good, and have a good story and even message; - that it's not mostly random violence.
Ditto! Ditto! The fact that the writer is well known for being against the soccer-related violence sounds hopeful. But I do hope there's a positive message--not just an "inside look" at how terrible the hooligan culture is, without giving any hope of change. That's my main problem with B&W--it may make the viewer want to avoid the horrors it shows, but no one in the movie learns a thing; at the end of the story the cycle is just continuing.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by BLOSSOM
[B][I]

Honey also mentioned the CofD scene - and Frodo definitely has tears in his eyes there, when he's so desperately trying to resist the overwhelming power of the Ring. And a tear actually falls:

http://www.imagemagician.com/images/blossom/CofDtear.jpg


Thank you for this pic! I've seen the movie 9 times now, and never noticed the tear falling! Great shot - I will look for this at my next viewing.

Thanks everyone for all the great discussion. I'm enjoying lurking and reading it all.

Just bipped in because I heard there was some discussion about EW as Bacchus, and I found this picture:

http://us.news1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/rids/20040223/i/r1840545281.jpg

Also, thanks Blossom (and ElanorSam for re-posting) for that pic of Frodo at the Crack of Doom. I had noticed the tears in his eyes before, but never saw that one actually fell! Guess I'll have to go back *AGAIN* and look for that. :D

Hewene

Well, he does look great as King does he not?

Can't stay long.. but I found this picture which I just couldn't resist posting...

http://img7.photobucket.com/albums/v18/Hobbsy/GGs/ls.jpg

If that doesn't work, the link is:
http://img7.photobucket.com/albums/v18/Hobbsy/GGs/ls.jpg

I think they make an elegant pair.

Frodo as sacrifice, Frodo as Bacchus, Frodo and Beatrice (who is she anyway?)... Oh Eru...
ElanorSam, Blossom, Hewene, Hobbitityme - Elijah -
Thank you (obeissance) for those pics

Also, Flik Filosopher via Hewene - "I've seen an entire world shrink into molecules of fading hope and acts of selfless love."
Yes that!

The more I read LOTR, the more I see LOTR - Elijah Wood's Frodo, the more I follow these discussions, the more I realize I shall never get over this hobbit for as long as I live.

Congratulations to the cast of ROTK for winning SAG's Best Ensemble award (equivalent to Best Picture)!

Sean Astin, John Rhys-Davies, Billy Boyd (in a kilt), Bernard Hill, Andy Serkis, and Liv Tyler were there. Sean mentioned Elijah Wood, Viggo Mortensen, and Orlando Bloom and then went on to make a very strange political speech....:rolleyes:

But a great night for the film and cast, at any rate! Bernard Hill and Billy Boyd also spoke (briefly!) and were charming.

ohhh Hewene!! The picture I came home tonight hoping to find!! Looks pretty spectacular!! More???


The more I read LOTR, the more I see LOTR, the more I read these discussions, the more I realize I shall never get over this hobbit for as long as I live.
You said it Naiad!

Back to the pedestrian---Elijah and Viggo have been neck and neck in the TORN poll today. Once Viggo crept ahead--now it's Elijah. Ah...neither of them care about the competition--which is part of why we love them---it's just that it would be nice to have Elijah know he is appreciated, since we don't think that his performance hasn't gotten quite enough notice elsewhere....he does look at TORN--so I like to think of it as a firm pat on the back.

The Mardi Gras site calls him the most popular young actor in Hollywood. Looking forward to hearing more about the parade. Thanks for the link Ainon.

Nice picture, Hobbityme:)

Edit: Posted simultaneously with Flourish. Thanks for the good news!!:D

Some time ago I thought EW could do Hamlet. He does look like Hamlet in that mardi Gras pic.

EDIT: oh, and time #13, I think I heard the sound that sounds like I Love You, but you have to be a believer first, if that makes any sense. I'll just say that if it really is just freaky exhalation, then some Entity made the exhalation sound like words. Most likely that Entity is the same Entity that got Bob Shaye in a greenlighting mood, that nudged Elijah Wood into making an audition tape, that got Ian McKellen sceduled, that got Henry to convince Viggo to go to NZ etc.

Cute pic of Elijah with Scarlett. Isn't she the actress who had a crush on him?

:D :D :D
What a way to start the working day!
Great picture of King Bacchus there, Hewene. Thanks.
His costume and his tights look a bit big for him, though.
Am I really expected to start concentrating on facts and figures after THAT funny picture?

Plus, you can see Billy Boyd in a fine-looking kilt on the TORN site. Two hobbits in skirts...really a great start of the day.

I just found out that I'll be able to watch the oscars on our Flemish tv too. Only problem is: it's really in the middle of the night. The show ends when the new day starts here. So, I hope that I can convince myself to tape it and get a bit of sleep that night (those shows are usually boring anyway)

Quick post.

originally posted by Mariole:
This super-combo set coming out next year that is supposed to have yet even some more extra specials on it. No info on this, but I might as well throw my money in the street right now, because I am so buying it.
_________________________________________

Originally posted by serena:
Mariole, I am so buying it too. Don't care HOW crazy my friends think I am ...
_________________________________________

Mariole and serena - Me too! :) I want to see every scene they ever shot - well, the Frodo ones anyway; every inch of behind-the-scenes footage - well, the Frolijah/Elijah bits at least! You get the drift?

Originally quoted by ElenorSam:
Thank you for this pic!
_________________________________________

You're welcome!

Whoo-hoo. Best Ensemble Cast at the S.A.G's! :) Trying to decide whether to tape the whole thing tonight - no Elijah!

Originally quoted by erendis:
I think I heard the sound that sounds like I Love You,
_________________________________________

Erendis, someone from another site was hoping to ask Elijah about this at the Mardi Gras over the weekend! She hasn't reported back as yet.

Thanks for that pic of Elijah as Bacchus, Hewene. He looks mighty fine to me - though Moondancer does have a point about the tights - Norah Batty anyone? (I dare say only UK'ers will know what I mean!:)

Must run. Take care all.

Wonderful picture! But where's his crown of grapes and grape-leaves? I wanna see a crown of grapes and grape-leaves! Any self-respecting Bacchus has a crown of grapes and grape-leaves! And I was counting on a toga! I had my heart set on a toga! :::: moping :::: Why didn't he have a toga?

But oh my, he looks fine. Billy Boyd looked mighty fine last night in his kilt, too.

Sean's going into politics. If Arnold can be governor, we could do worse in 20 years than elect a hobbit as president. ;D

Any pics of Dominic M. over there?

Could that flesh-colored dress with the coconut shells that looks kind of like my grandmother's corset be any more hideous? It would have looked bad on Audrey Hepburn. But then AH wouldn't have been caught dead in it. I hope.

CHILD IN THE NIGHT SPOILERS!!!!!



I finally got Child in the Night! Horrible movie. Bad writing. Actors chewing the scenery right and left. One adorable little boy with enormous blue eyes who could look unbelievably terrified. I knew the second we met Grandpa that he'd done it.

And there's no way a little kid drew those pictures.



End Child in the Night spoilers!

I got the Ice Storm but haven't gotten it out of the package yet. I don't think I need to watch it right now.

~grumpybutyoumademydaywiththatpicture

Regarding the "super combo" DVD set--I was dying to post this yesterday when the discussion started, but had it on my office hard drive so had to wait til today. The "action figures" at the bottom are the Barrow wight, Glorfindal, and Frodo on Asfalof by himself ;) . But it's still not complete--where are Tom and Goldberry :confused: ? Is there still more after this :p ??

http://www.imagemagician.com/images/tgshaw/outtakes/lotrdvd.gif

(I'm sure I got this from the Trilogy forum here at KD, but it was posted quite some time ago--note that it's only FotR.)

BTW, there are some nice pics from the SAG awards over in the Trilogy/RotK/Oscars thread.

Originally posted by zkgrumpy
Wonderful picture! But where's his crown of grapes and grape-leaves? I wanna see a crown of grapes and grape-leaves! Any self-respecting Bacchus has a crown of grapes and grape-leaves! And I was counting on a toga! I had my heart set on a toga! :::: moping :::: Why didn't he have a toga

Yes, (thank you, Hewene!) - I agree Grumpy, every respectable Bacchus should be dressed as you described! To complement Elicchus' nice look - here's an Elwoodian Bacchus from the British painter Simeon Solomon (1840-1905):

http://img1.photobucket.com/albums/0903/whiteling/solomon_bacchuus.jpg

(Much better than Rubens' variation, isn't it, Maeglian ;) ?)


Tg, wow, great news on the "super combo" :) - *PING! Whiteling begins to feed her piggy bank* :D

Whiteling, Thanks for that terrific pic! Now THAT's what I was wanting to see. A grape wreath with the Frodo wig! And Grumpy, I agree that I was hoping for a TOGA, preferrably one of those one shoulder affairs with a short skirt! Poor Baby; he would have frozen! :D Gotta love the baggy tights though. ;)

TG, Love the ESSEDVDE. I especially can't wait to see the documentary "Blood From a Stone!" :p :rolleyes:

From lurkdom,
Honey!

You know, with all this talk about Bacchus, this idea just came in my head. Wouldn't Elijah just be wonderful in a delicious Shakespeare part??? Like as Sebastian in Twelfth Night, Valentine in Two Gentlemen of Verona, Lysander in A Midsummer's Night Dream... or go for the prize as Romeo in Romeo and Juliet.

I love that picture whiteling... there is an indescribable likeness of that image to Elijah that just takes my breath away!

tgshaw, hehe... now that is something I would pay for.... really.

Whiteling, the first thing I thought of upon seeing that Bacchus painting was "Ashton Kutcher". :eek: :eek: :rolleyes:

I confess I didn't watch the SAG awards last night because I was convinced they wouldn't give an award to the ROTK cast. They have somewhat redeemed themselves in my eyes. :cool:

Even with baggy tights, Elijah has great legs. :D

Commentary by every person in the credits ***Runs away screaming! *** :D


Yep, sure enough, Whiteling, that's the Elicchus look I'd have liked to see!


I much enjoy the various pictures from the Bacchus Parade that are popping up all over the net. I love them for two reasons; -

One, because Elijah looks to be enjoying himself immensely, what with being some kind of emperor for a day, doling out beads and doublons, clad in that over-the-top golden costume and those cute baggy white tights. He's such a dear. :)

And secondly, because they somehow reinforce to me how right Tolkien was in describing Frodo's fate the way he did upon the hobbits' return to the Shire. Don't quite get why I suddenly got to thinking about that? Well, here's the reason, the Bacchus-parade-inspired alternate return to the Shire, that suddenly popped into my mind, and near scared me silly:


"As the four travellers were getting closer to Hobbiton, there were throngs of jubilant hobbits everywhere. Happy, noisy hobbits lined the road where their carriage would pass on its way to Bag End. Frodo got up and stood in the carriage, resplendent in the sumptuous silk and gold finery bestowed upon him by the Gondorians. Elven jewels glittered at his throat and in Sting's new, beautifully adorned scabbard, gleaming at Frodo's side. He waved regally and benevolently to the cheering hobbits, showering them with Gondorian gold coins and the occasional elven jewel, and was rewarded with cries of adulation: "Hail Frodo, saviour of Middle Earth" and "Hail Frodo, best hobbit in the Shire!" So the chanting and cheering continued, and the shirriffs had a hard time keeping the young women out of the way, whenever they tried to climb the carriage or stood directly in its way, eager to shower rose petals over Frodo and his companions, hoping to catch Frodo's eye.

Pippin eyed the shirriffs critically. Their clothes were far too nondescript. Now that the four travellers had returned, victoriuous and covered in riches, things would have to change. The shirriffs would need new, splendid uniforms. He was thinking special attire for the Shirriffs who would be forming the Bag End honour Guard. After all, Frodo was no ordinary hobbit. He was unique, and should have the continuous thanks and adulation of them all. It was good to see him so regal and joyous at getting the well-deserved undivided attention and jubilant admiration of everyone in Hobbiton and beyond. This was a day to be remembered for ever."

:eek: :eek:

:cool: :D

Maeglian, before I have a complete and total heart attack, please tell me that your "Bacchus visits the Shire" ficlet was actually not taken from one of JRRT's drafts. I know he toyed about with having Frodo honored in the Shire, but this would be over the top!

Whiteling, your Elwoodian Bacchus is the best! Now, that's a Bacchus I could really get behind! Whahoo! * begins to party *

Tg, I love that super-extended DVD set. I believe I have that somewhere on my drive as well. And yes, I'd buy it! :D

I want to see every scene they ever shot - well, the Frodo ones anyway; every inch of behind-the-scenes footage - well, the Frolijah/Elijah bits at least! You get the drift?
So, Blossom, could you be a little more clear about what you'd be looking for on the new DVD set? :D

Maeg -- :eek: :eek: ! For sure!
Originally posted by Mariole
I know he toyed about with having Frodo honored in the Shire, but this would be over the top!
I think Maeg's scenario would require the resurrection of Bingo Baggins from those early drafts--I have the feeling Frodo would be suffering immense pangs of "unreasonable guilt" the whole time :( .

So, Blossom, could you be a little more clear about what you'd be looking for on the new DVD set? :D
Was it here--or in the Trilogy forum--where someone posted the comment from PJ about the advent of high-capacity DVDs? He said that with so much storage space, each actor would be able to put together his/her own cut of a movie and have it on the DVD :cool: . FES, don't sweep the cutting room floor :eek: ! Or better yet, put all the snippets of film on the DVD and let us each make our own! :)

Hmm. I feel bound to quote my last words:

famous last words being what they are ...

Had just been writing about posts that disappear when you hit "submit". So what happens next time I'm halfway through a post?

THE HARD DISK CRASHES.

:( :( :(

Not just that, but I've just discovered my local multiplex has TAKEN ROTK OFF. My last chance to see it will be over the border in Germany, in German (!!!) tomorrow night - and it's the last night there as well by the looks of things. Ever get the feeling you are being told something? I'm probably being punished for spending too much time in Frolijah cyberspace.

Writing this on work computer (late at night :( )
Crash happened late last night and I've probably lost everything on the disk. (Could have been something to do with trying to monitor Mardi Gras and do several other things at the same time!) Just as well all those pics of Elijah are indelibly burnt into my brain so that I can recall them at will.

All except two: if anyone can easily find and re-post either of the following, I'd be eternally grateful :) :k gets into begging mode
(1) Frolijah in an early publicity shot, in semi-profile, white shirt, tan waistcoat, green cloak, no elven brooch (?), giving the camera a most beautiful Mona Lisa smile
(2) Elijah wearing black leather jacket and looking bluish and sultry (from a photo shoot with the four hobbits all in black leather ... bluish background) ....

Love the one of Elwood and Scarlett, btw, coconut-shell dress or not (((hobbityme)))
from Elanorsam:
Isn't she the actress who had a crush on him?
Actually I'd thought it was the other way round ... EW was heard to say in some recent interview that he had a crush on Scarlett and thought she was gorgeous. But she may well have said the same about him! And Scarlett seems very mature for her age - just like someone else we know. Could this be the start of someth....

But to get back OT:

Tg, I hear you! No more book spoilers needed! Thank you for your kind concern (((Tg)))
Erm, that doesn't mean I've finished reading it or am anywhere close :eek:, but I've read so much about the book that it can hardly be spoilt any further. Can it? ;)
Apart from which it is actually rather comforting to hear the views of people who know and love the books and who ALSO adore the films, despite their many liberties with Tolkien. Have decided to see books and films as two entirely separate, and different, works of art. As if the book is one of those turquoise glacial rivers in NZ and the film is an ice crystal taken from it - with a different structure, depth and consistency, but made of the same stuff.
from Alyon:
Even those who worry that he was downsized, still seem to love Elijah's being Frodo and seem to still be captivated by the movies.
But of course! That’s the whole point. Most of the worriers worry because they love Frolijah too much, not too little, and want to see even more of him than there already is. I for one really missed him in TTT; that wondrous Frodo of FOTR, with all that energy and charm and intelligence and resolve, suddenly seemed to have been replaced by a shadow personality or parasitic twin. It often seemed as if the Ring or the Nazgul or both had sucked out Frodo's soul, leaving him passive, dysfunctional and dependent on Sam. But happily (and I can't tell you how happy it made me :)) he was miraculously back in ROTK - irrevocably wounded, struggling, stumbling physically and mentally, collapsing, claiming the Ring, on the brink of death, but back. And the long ending, in fact the last third of the film, could not have been bettered: it was heartbreakingly beautiful. That's why I'm prepared to see it tomorrow even in German rather than say goodbye to it on the big screen, possibly for ever.
And Elijah portrayed all that ambiguity, all those contrasts, so brilliantly, so bravely, that it seems utterly believable. If he seemed like a different organism in TTT, it's a tribute to his incomparable acting.

from Alyon:
Elijah does it so well!! Angelically well. Elijah said something about not believing that he and Sam could be smiling at that point. But I can believe it. There is a moment of sweetness to cherish...a moment of quiet..before the storm.
Beautifully put. That moment makes me cry every time I see it. It's at the very end of TTT and it heralds The Return - not of the King, but of the Hobbit! For me, anyway. Frolijah is triumphantly back :)

This time I thought about ADR while watching. I just tried to imagine Elijah with headphones on watching the screen and re-recording his non-verbal "dialog." It must have been so hard--- minute after minute of moaning and groaning and whimpering and crying out and panting and ....oh my, I think it would have been hard. Actors sure have to be brave. It is one thing to vocalize within a scene. Another to stand in a studio room in street clothes with an engineer looking on and then get yourself all worked up to be convincing. Oh my .. I say, take a bow, Elijah.

So do I. He deserves an Oscar for that alone.

from Achila:
whadya know? She's now a fan too!
What a Wise Woman. There are a lot of Wise Women around here :). The company of so many wise and wonderful women makes me feel, well, a lot less of a freak for being so passionate and obsessive about those films and that young American actor. We are no freaks (or men either!). We're merely people who have eyes to see. :) Or something. :k

Yes, she is, Serena. You know what else, when I showed her pictures of Lij from my screensaver, she looked for a while and then said, "That's a smart boy." She could tell just by looking in his eyes. I guess it's something that we know on so many different levels and from so many sources that we don't even realize how much intelligence there is in those gorgeous "orbs". Yes -- for those who have eyes to see.

I cannot keep up with you ladies lately!!!

But here's all the available New Orleans parade and party pics I've found so far.

Lij in NO (http://img7.photobucket.com/albums/v18/Hobbsy/Lij%20in%20NO/)


A few samples...

http://img7.photobucket.com/albums/v18/Hobbsy/Lij%20in%20NO/b138db36.jpg

http://img7.photobucket.com/albums/v18/Hobbsy/Lij%20in%20NO/d5fda85a.jpg

http://img7.photobucket.com/albums/v18/Hobbsy/Lij%20in%20NO/IM001365crop.jpg

And a girl's account of her 'evening with Elwood'. Seems like he had a good time. HERE (http://www.livejournal.com/users/rosiegalbasi/33792.html)

Originally posted by serena
Had just been writing about posts that disappear when you hit "submit". So what happens next time I'm halfway through a post?

THE HARD DISK CRASHES.

:( :( :(

:(
That's why I'm prepared to see it tomorrow even in German rather than say goodbye to it on the big screen, possibly for ever.
Frodo in German? Like I said before, the idea of using voice-overs is odd to me.
On German tv, they also let the translator talk over the celebrity when they do an interview in English or so. You end up seeing the celeb but hearing the voice of the translator. Why on earth do they do that?
(I prefer subtitles or let the celebrity talk and translate it afterwards).
I have family living in Germany and they're so used to the German voice-overs that they actually prefer those voices.
:eek:
My German brother-in-law was watching a movie with us, in the original version (Dutch subtitles). It was a James Bond movie and he said that his voice didn't fit him.
I asked him: "What do you mean...doesn't fit him??? It's his OWN voice."
Him: "Yeah, I know but the German voice is better for him"
Odd...:D

My theatrical FOTR DVD was for the French market also, so if you want to, you can hear the French version. I watched a couple of scenes just out of curiosity and...that's too weird for me.
Switched it off. I really prefer to hear the voice that comes with the face I'm watching.

Anyway, it's EJW movie month over here. The EJW movies are coming in from all over the world. :)
The previous week, it was Paradise, Radio Flyer and Chain Of Fools.
This week: All I Want (arrived today...:) ) and I'm still waiting for The Bumblebee Flies Away and Child In The Night (did manage to get a copy of that one).

So, I just finished watching All I Want.
*** AIW Spoilers ***


My expectations were not that high to begin with.
I didn't like the beginning of the movie.
There's nothing happening between Mandy Moore and Elijah Wood. ...I mean, no real chemistry between them.

I started to enjoy it when Elijah's and Franka's character started interacting more. Talking about chemistry!

The storyline with Jones' mum and about his father was very predictable, I think, although I like the fact that it was his Avalon-mum.
I was also expecting more from the Lisa-Jones-Jane thing (but maybe that says more about me than anything else :D...). They started with the Lisa-Jones-Jane thread in the movie but they kind of dropped it without giving that a proper ending.
The other man living in one of the apartments in the house is also a bit of a movie-cliché. They could have been a bit more original there.
I feel that the movie lacked a bit of direction. Like, they tried to do too many things in one movie. A surreal element here, a bit of comedy there, add a touch of family drama, maybe a hint of a possible threesome,...
Having lots of various elements in one movie can work and it can be fun to watch but it didn't really happen in this movie.
Elijah Wood gives us glimpses of his quality here and there. He uses his ability to say much without expressing one word but he did not really have to use his acting muscles much, I would say.

But, although I enjoyed it, it's not going to be one of my favourites in my EJW list.

*** / AIW Spoilers ***


Ah, just seen Hobmom's pictures...Thanks.:)

About that "Huck Finn" close up: When we first see a close up of Frodo in TFOTR, what's funny is that it made me think, that Huck Finn grew up but still looks the same. :D

Thoughts on St. Gabriel: Isn't it funny that in appearance it's Sts Sebatian (Patron of Athletes) and George (Patron of Soldiers) seem like Alpha Men, but Gabriel, with his delicate fratures is just as Manly and completes this Alpha Male Trinity.

(((serena))) That sucks 'bout the hard disk crash. :( I think I know what pics you're asking for, but my connection is being v-e-r-y slow so I can't search or upload anything for you at present. But I'm pretty sure they can be found at TORn's archives.

Great news about the SAG! :cool: Would've been nice if EW were there too. But well, it looks like he was having fun in New Orleans. Wearing ... tights. :eek: After 'Robin Hood Men in Tights', it's very hard to look at men wearing tights with any great erm, respect. :p :D

Displaying usual level of ignorance here ... Bacchus is/was ... who? :o


Maeg - LOL at your 'Return of Frodo the Hero' write-up. tg, that DVD announcement brings much joy and much cheer indeed! :D Why of course New Line can rip off as much money as it may from me! :p Seriously though, if there is a special trilogy edition -- well, actually I hope there wouldn't be. It's too soon after the other DVDs, and there is a limit to how much I am willing to spend even for LOTR or special actor's cuts, when each legitimate DVD set costs more than 100 bucks. :(

Of course I say that now. But if New Line really does pull an 'Alien Quadrilogy' type stunt (nine discs of all the Alien movies + specials) then chances are high I'll be there all right, bloodily coughing up hard-earned money for the DVD set, cursing and cussing New Line all the way ....

Thanks for all the pics posted, you guys! (((Faculty)))

Ow, (((Serena))) :( ! When it rains, it pours...
I'm very much hoping you'll enjoy the German Frodo nevertheless.

http://img1.photobucket.com/albums/0903/whiteling/Frodo_in_brown_jacket.jpg
(this Mona Lisa Frodo? No cloak, though)


Ainon, here's (http://www.gwydir.demon.co.uk/jo/roman/index.htm) what I found about Bacchus:

Bacchus (Son of Jupiter) was the Ancient Roman god of wine and mystic ecstasy. His Greek name was Dionysus. He was accompanied by Maenads, or wild dancing women. The Bacchanalias, orgies in favour of Bacchus were notorious for licentiousness.
Bacchus was also the god of the theatre, since the first plays in Greece were performed in his honour. There were tragedies, serious stories about heroes and gods, and comedies, which laughed at politicians and were often very rude!

Well, Hobmom's pictures (thanks a lot :) !) admittedly show us a little different interpretation of Bacchus... :)

Serena - Sorry to hear about the crash. Here are links to a couple of pics I had saved that may be the leather-jacket one you wanted:

Pic 1 (http://www.imagemagician.com/images/blossom/theboys-011.jpg)
or
Pic 2 (http://www.imagemagician.com/images/blossom/hobbits010625a.jpg)

I was sure I had the other one you mentioned, but I can't seem to find it. I'll keep looking.

Hobmom - We can always rely on you to bring us the latest delicious Elijah pics. Thanks for Bacchus!!! :)

Quoted by Mariole:
So, Blossom, could you be a little more clear about what you'd be looking for on the new DVD set?
________________________________________

Ooops! Looks like I gave myself away there! I mean, I do appreciate everything else about these wonderful books and films, but well, the combination of Frodo/Frolijah/Elijah is what really does it for me!

I'll sneak away in :o now.

Bye.

Serena-- :( :( -- about the crash! One more pic from the Empire article Blossom posted from:

http://www.imagemagician.com/images/tgshaw/outtakes/2665.jpg

Not sure about the second one :confused: . These are the only two I can come up with that have what I'd call a "Mona Lisa smile" but I'm not sure if they fit the rest of the description?

http://www.imagemagician.com/images/tgshaw/outtakes/eonline-ewood.gif

http://www.imagemagician.com/images/tgshaw/outtakes/ewood8.jpg

Any luck?

---------------

scs--If you're talking about the close-up I think you are, it's not from Huck Finn but from the "making of" featurette on The Good Son DVD. Even though that particular shot is pure Elijah--not in character--there are some similarities between Huck and Mark. He made them at just about the same age, IIRC.

But on your "Huck grown up" comment--oh, absolutely! The first time I saw Elijah's Huck I "recognized" him as young Frodo growing up along the Brandywine. It was kind of a weird experience for me when years later the same actor was actually cast as Frodo (but, what can I say, except that he's the perfect choice? :) ).

----------

Hobmom--thanks for the pics! Love the one where he's getting his throwing arm ready :D ! But that's our boy, isn't it?--Making sure the people farther back in the crowd have a chance to catch something :) , instead of just tossing everything to the ones in front. (Also quite a nice erm, sterno-whatsis shot :o .)

(((serena))) My sympathies also about the disk crash. I just went through this 4 months ago. It's a trial. While I have lots of Frodo pics, I have very few Elijah pics (or Frolijah pics). Best wishes in your search.

from Blossom
Ooops! Looks like I gave myself away there! I mean, I do appreciate everything else about these wonderful books and films, but well, the combination of Frodo/Frolijah/Elijah is what really does it for me!
Blossom, my dear, we are of one mind in this regard! No :o needed on my account!

originally posted by Alyon(?)
This time I thought about ADR while watching. I just tried to imagine Elijah with headphones on watching the screen and re-recording his non-verbal "dialog." It must have been so hard--- minute after minute of moaning and groaning and whimpering and crying out and panting and ....oh my, I think it would have been hard. Actors sure have to be brave. It is one thing to vocalize within a scene. Another to stand in a studio room in street clothes with an engineer looking on and then get yourself all worked up to be convincing. :eek: :eek: Yikes! Hewene posted a link to the soundtrack for that sequence in the Harem, and much swooning ensued. And so you have NO IDEA what went through my mind when I read this description of how oh-so hard it must have been...

Okay, maybe you do...somebody trout me... :o

(((Erendis))) !!!!!

There is such a link??!! :eek: I may just have to take a trip over to the Harem. Scientific research and artistic study and all.....
Oh my word!!!

Serena said:
Actually I'd thought it was the other way round ... EW was heard to say in some recent interview that he had a crush on Scarlett and thought she was gorgeous. But she may well have said the same about him! And Scarlett seems very mature for her age - just like someone else we know. Could this be the start of someth....

Check out Hugs Haven from a week or so back for fuller discussion on this topic. Speculation was that Scarlett was doing the pursuing...

Originally posted by erendis
Okay, maybe you do...somebody trout me... :o

Happy to oblige!! http://www.council-of-elrond.com/forums/images/smilies/trout.gif


:D :D

Serena, sorry to hear about your computer problems. I dread that happening - I'm so bad about doing my back-ups at home. :(

Originally posted by Alyon
There is such a link??!! :eek: I may just have to take a trip over to the Harem. Scientific research and artistic study and all.....
Oh my word!!! Always happy to further the cause of scientific research and artistic study. Civic duty and all that... :)

Enjoy. :D

listen to this! (http://home.earthlink.net/~hewene/data/frodo%20climbing%20stairs%20sound%20ROTK.mp3) (Please, if you can.. right-click and save rather than playing directly! Thankee.)

Hewene

Serena, so sorry to hear of your computer problems! Hope you manage to find the missing pics fast.


Whiteling, thanks for the to-the-point info on Bacchus. Yes, the point about Bacchus is that he and his followers carried on in a way that makes it difficult to link to any illustrations and paintings, because they would exceed the rating allowed at this board. Lots of wine, some vine leaf more or less strategically placed, nothing much else. I can see they went for a compromise in Elijah's costume: Since they couldn't go for the proper Bacchus attire he's at least got purple grapes around his throne, and on the shoulders of his costume, and on his boots. OK, now: White and golden boots with purple grapes: That's about as camp as it gets, isn't it? I'm still smiling at those parade pictures. (Thank you, Hobmom! :) )


Tg, that first picture you posted of EJW in the black leather jacket brought back memories. I only managed to buy one proper film magazine about FotR (I came to the craze too late :( ) but that happens to be the Empire that your pic is taken from. It's a great article throughout, and has several of the very best Frodo pictures, inclusive of one of all four hobbits at Weathertop, quite gorgeous. I know this 'cause I just made a feeble attempt at sorting through the stack of magazines and general LotR stuff I've got heaped around the house, but only succeeded in oh-ing and ah-ing once again over the great pictures and articles. By the time TTT came around I'd learned my lesson and hence there's no dearth here of TTT and ROTK related magazines. I think the one I enjoy the most may possibly be Empire's recent RotK issue. It has a special additional edition with interviews and pictures with nearly every cast member, commemorating the whole trilogy. It's great. :)

Sorry about your computer troubles, Serena! Is this one of the pictures you described?

http://www.tolkienonline.com/images/pm_pictures/1087.jpg

Serena, bummer about your drive crashing that way. Your misfortune got me archiving stuff off my drive and I ran across something I thought you might enjoy, but apparently one can't post .wav files here. Hewene, anyone, how did you post the above sound file?

This is apropos of absolutely nothing, but a few weeks ago my husband and I saw "Big Fish." It occured to me that as much as Ewan McGregor is a handsome lad, and he does have that lovely accent (well, not in "Big Fish") I really don't like watching him much. For one thing, when he smiles it's like he's remembering how each and every time. Mentioned this to my husband, and he said (without prompting from me!)

"Oh, I agree. It's not like when Elijah Wood smiles; then you can't help smiling back!"

So there, it was kinda sorta on topic after all!

Honey!

Hewene, your sound clip sent shivers down my spine. I think it just emphasizes how much confidence you must have as an actor not only because you have to make such sounds in front of sound engineers without the mercy of being on set, but also because Elijah must have had to really put himself in that head space and feel the character in order to make sounds as tormenting as that! It brought my mind to another scene, which is the Shelob one, where, upon closer inspection, the sound editing was pretty sloppy (did I just make a criticism on ROTK? :eek: ). But yes, you can see parts where Elijah is making those panicked sounds but Frodo is not. It does go to show how heartfelt he must have been doing that scene with even more gusto when doing the voice recordings. You can close your eyes and know exactly how Frodo's feeling with just his vocal expressions. There was also a part where they were at Minas Morgul and if you dare, just close your eyes and you will more fully appreciate those pained moans that Frodo makes that will literally break your heart. Perhaps this should be our next topic of discussion... Elijah can act without being seen! Sounds without dialogue...

Anyways, I just wanted to post this picture that I found. I don't know, it took my breath away.

http://www.geocities.com/cheryll_cat/new_sohoposter.jpg

If the image doesn't work, it's here:
http://www.geocities.com/cheryll_cat/new_sohoposter.jpg

EDIT: I don't know why the pic isn't working but you could just copy and paste the url directly onto the address box and that should work.

Sorry I haven't posted much lately but I've certainly been following all the wonderful posts.

Hobbityme - I do agree about the sound clips - the extent to which he must have been able to ignore his surroundings and just conjure up this scene in his head is quite mind-boggling.

Serena - as someone who has known the horror of that moment when you know your hard drive is gone - my commiserations:(

Blossom - I am now in a position to say "Yes, it is there" I refer to the ILY of course. In fact, I actually hear it twice!! The first time is as soon as Frodo & Sam hug, and then a little later when the camera moves round to Frodo's face - unfortunately his mouth is hidden so you can't actually see him speak - but there is no doubt in my mind that its there. What I can't decide is if it was intended to be heard or not - to me it is clear enough to think that it probably was but didn't actually come out as clear as it should have.

Also, I'm with you on wanting limitless behind-the-scenes footage! I read in a dvd mag some time ago that whatever was happening on set, there was always a camera recording it, and that in an office somewhere there are shelves laden with video tapes containing literally thousands of hours of behind the scenes footage. And I want to see every minute of it!! Do I sound a terribly sad person if I say that I actually wish that 'send-up' ad for the super dvd set was true (as posted by TG):D

Hewene, thanks for sharing that audio clip! :k

And thank you, whiteling and Maeg for the Bacchus education. :D

Honey, to post an audio file you gotta upload it to the Net first - say a file-hosting site, the way you upload the pics you'd like to share. Then you post the link here so that folks can right-click and save it. :)

As we await the Oscars, shall we indulge in one last pirate offering? The front and back dustjackets for the VCD copy. :D Note the starring roles of Brian Burns and Elijah Wood! See, the pirates were wise. Even they knew better than to tout the real Burns' name!

http://home.ripway.com/2003-7/13204/aw10.jpg

http://home.ripway.com/2003-7/13204/aw16.jpg


Now to wash away that bad ashy taste in the mouth :p I quickly offer you our courteous halfling in two languages.

http://shop.decipher.com/Images/CardImages/LOTR-WR04301.jpg

http://shop.decipher.com/Images/CardImages/LOTR-EN04301.jpg

And one resolute hobbit:

http://shop.decipher.com/Images/CardImages/LOTR-EN00027.jpg


Welcome back, shireling! Serena, hope you're having good luck with rebuilding your computer's collection. :k

Serena - here's the pic I thought you may be referring to - I'm not so sure now, as he's not smiling, but it's the one I immediately thought of:
http://www.imagemagician.com/images/blossom/F1.jpg

Hewene - that soundtrack clip :eek: :eek: and thrice :eek:

Hobbityme - Yes, I agree with everything you say about Elijah regarding that soundclip, and your quote: 'Perhaps this should be our next topic of discussion... Elijah can act without being seen! Sounds without dialogue...'
Sounds like just the kind of research The Faculty Lounge love!
Thanks for that lovely pic, too.

Originally quoted by Shireling:
Do I sound a terribly sad person if I say that I actually wish that 'send-up' ad for the super dvd set was true (as posted by TG)
_____________________________________________

NO!!! :)

Shireling - I wondered where you'd got to! I do check your LJ if I haven't seen you in here for a while, just to reassure myself that you're still around - but nothing in there since Jan 28th! Anyway, it's lovely to have you back. So pleased you heard the 'ILY.' I only hear it once, where Frodo's face is half hidden by Sam's shoulder, right before the shot returns to Sam, so now I'll have to go and listen for the other one!

Originally quoted by Honeyelf:
Mentioned this to my husband, and he said (without prompting from me!) "Oh, I agree. It's not like when Elijah Wood smiles; then you can't help smiling back!"
____________________________________________

Give that lovely man a hug from the Faculty.:)

Maeg - That Empire ROTK special is lovely, isn't it?

Ainon - Lovely decipher cards once again. Thanks. :k

I keep forgetting to say welcome back to Achilla - so, better late than never, 'Welcome back Achilla.' :)

Bye.

Sorry I missed giving Ash Wednesday greetings to everyone yesterday--but ainon gave a commemoration with the VCD cover :) :

Brian Burns = Ed Burns' boring twin.

------------------------

The sound recordings/discussion reminds me again how much goes into film acting that I'd never even heard of several years ago! Besides the separate sound recording (which boggles my mind), there are the emotional close-ups with the camera inches from your face (and a blowtorch inches off to the side in one picture from the set), keeping the character's emotions on track when shooting out of sequence, having a conversation with someone who isn't actually there, and fighting tennis balls and empty air. -- Along with all the things the audience actually notices.

It makes me look at Elijah's reluctance to do stage acting from a somewhat different angle. He's been honing these skills needed for film acting for about 15 years now. I can imagine how I'd feel if my boss told me today that instead of editing and library/online research I'd be growing cell cultures in the lab. "What's the difference? It's still cancer research." Yes, even using some of the same knowledge base--but with a radically different set of skills! The difference being that I think Elijah will try stage acting at some point... ;) SNL was a small step in that direction, although he was still basically acting for the camera. Recent discussion on how Elijah acts "from the script" more than a lot of actors do adds a new perspective to the comment from some of the SNL regulars that he'd actually learned his lines ahead of time, instead of using cue cards like most of the "big name" [their term :) ] hosts do.

And I'm writing this on one cup of coffee and have no idea what I'm talking about :rolleyes: .

ainon--I did want to mention how beautiful the lettering is on the Decipher card. The italicized part looks as if it could be Elvish script :) .

Let me just say

THANK YOU !!!!!!! :)
to everyone and especially

((((ainon)))) - thanks for the reminder and yes, I'll raid TORN's archives as soon as my late hard disk, which has definitively shuffled off this, ahem, silicon coil and is even now pushing up the cyberdaisies, is replaced by a younger one four times the size. Meanwhile, am busy hiding a few of the more beautiful pics on my work computer - see below .... ;)
((((whiteling)))) yesssssssssss! That's the one! :k Clever you for recognising the false description - he has no cloak, but a jacket that isn't even green! But it's my all-time favourite Frodo pic (sigh)
((((blossom)))) yesssssssssss! That's the other one! :k They are some of my all-time favourite Elijah pics. (Good excuse to get them posted here again, don't you think?) And as for that beautiful Pensive Frodo pic .... how could I have forgotten that?
((((Tg)))) mmmmmmmmmmm ... nice leather (erm, any minute now I'm going to be banished to the Harem ..... ;))
((((mariole))))
((((narya)))) Yes, will invest in product with CD burner for easier backup (would have needed huge pile of floppy disks to back up that lot from the laptop). Am seriously thinking about a product of a certain rival IT company which shall remain nameless but is mentioned in Genesis. So there. Good for all sorts of multimedia meddling. maybe with new 20-inch screen?) :)
((((maeglian)))) Empire Mag rules! Last year, anyway. I haven't quite forgiven them for ridiculing EW back in 2002 (someone on their staff referred to him as looking about 12 and pitied him for having "lost out" to Orlando - grrr!)
((((flourish)))) yesssssssssss! That's the one! :k
((((honeyelf))))
((((shireling)))) Welcome back!! Hadn't heard from you for ages. had been thinking about you recently, not least because now I know just how you felt that time ...
from Shireling:
Do I sound a terribly sad person if I say that I actually wish that 'send-up' ad for the super dvd set was true (as posted by TG)
NO!! I've been wishing the same thing (OK, OK, I'm sad too. Can't get enough behind-the-scenes stuff. Fervently hoping the recent documentary will be on the DVD in August (can no longer get ITV)).

Well, every cloud has a silver lining, they say, and they may be right. Saw ROTK in German on Tuesday - and it really was the last night there, so I'm glad I did. And oddly enough it was incredibly moving. I cried more than I had in the last couple of viewings in English! It was quite strange listening to those beloved characters speaking with totally different voices, let alone in a different language. Really missed Ian McK's voice and intonation - the German guy did his best, but Sir Ian is impossible to emulate, and it ended up sounding too gruff and undifferentiated. It made me realise how crucial actors' voices are - how much of the "soul" of the film is in the perfectly spoken word. The voice really is the sound of the soul, it seems. There seemed to be no regional German accents either - maybe Scottish and Welsh and West Country are not so obvious to non-anglophones? But Gimli's jokes came over just as well in German - and there was more laughter because more people understood them (in my home town they show the films with the original soundtrack, but most of the audience is non-anglophone). German Éowyn sounded remarkably like MO.

So what of our Frodo in German? At first the voice sounded too deep, but towards the end I suspect the actor got the measure of it a little better, because it ended up sounding almost like Elijah, but less emotionally charged. And it was only the words that were dubbed - all the sighs and groans and panting were original EW, thank goodness. The bits that suffered most were Frodo's voiceover at the end, where he tells of the return to the Shire and Bilbo's last journey, and the lovely scene with Sam in Bag End. But I could remember Elijah's voice so well that it hardly mattered.
And oddly enough, hearing those lines for once spoken in a different language by different actors who were trying so very hard to emulate the original ones made it sometimes, if anything, even more moving. I can't really explain why. Part of it may have been the newness of the experience - knowing that the film works, and people love it, in any language. Lots of people of both sexes stayed right to the end of the credits, which was nice. And sometimes I found myself noticing aspects of the dialogue that I hadn't specifically noticed before.

But, for the first time, I heard no sobs during the Grey Havens scene. I'm sure the absence of Frolijah's voice (throughout) was the reason for that. It just goes to show how intrinsic his voice is to his whole persona. He has one of the most beautiful voices ever (as well as the most beautiful face). And when you add the personality .... the combination is devastating. I never cease to be amazed by it.

Serena, you're most welcome :) ! Good to know we guessed your favourite pics!

Your depiction of your German Frodo experience is fascinating.
I think the least felicitous voice-over was the one of Gollum (well, the German speaker definitely hadn't drunk the "Gollum brew" consisting of water, honey and ginger :p ). And yes, regional accents seldom survive in German film versions. When I heard the original version of FotR for the first time I was most astonished at Pippin's Scottish accent. - They tried to emulate accents with "Finding Nemo" - the little octopus speaks Bavarian (!), another classmate fish talks Saxon (argh!) and the cool turtles gibber with English accent ( :confused: ). I'm really not sure whether this is an acceptable solution for all films. I do have difficulties to imagine Pippin talking Swabian or Low German... I dunno :rolleyes: .
As far as I can tell most people here sobbing in the Faramir/Denethor scene ("You wish now that our places had been switched. That I had died and Boromir had lived."). People here also remain inexplicably quiet when it comes to Shelob. (Am I the only arachnophobic person in Germany :o ?)


Ainon - beautiful Decipher cards! (And what a hilarious return education regarding AW :p !)

Alright, my friends. If you haven't already, go to TORN for the last stretch in the Elijah/Viggo race--and place your bets on Lij.

Both quite worthy actors. But, you know, there is only one that's gonna win:)

It has been a rather jaunty race all week with Viggo and Elijah head to head--all others having fallen way behind. Right now Viggo is at 27.5% and Elijah just behind at 27.4%. The next after is Ian M. at 9.5%. I do believe there must be some determined fans of the two front runners with their fingers on the button. I can almost just picture them. Men with laptops and swords, and Hobbits with edible keyboards :D Go hobbits.

Serena I am so sorry about your computer--so so sorry. But it sure resulted in some beautiful pic posting. Thanks all who contributed

Honey's husband:
"Oh, I agree. It's not like when Elijah Wood smiles; then you can't help smiling back!"

Keep him, Honey. What a sweetie!!

I don't think it's been mentioned yet but TORN is going to give out their Golden Gandalf Awards after the Oscars and there's several opportunities for us to vote for Elijah so get on over there and do it!

Most of my posts the last couple of days have been in "The Return of the Pants," which kind of tells you what level my brain is functioning at ;) -- so I don't really have anything to add to the discussion. But I want to say
Happy Birthday to BunnieBugs!!
...even though you haven't posted for awhile, hope you're still reading the thread :) .


Hobmom, thanks for the heads-up on the Golden Gandalf Awards. I just have one question for whoever picked the nominees: How could Elrond have been left out of the choices for "most elegant" :confused: ? IMHO, everyone listed is a runner-up :p !

Happy Birthday, BunnieBugs! :)


Originally posted by tgshaw
Most of my posts the last couple of days have been in "The Return of the Pants," which kind of tells you what level my brain is functioning at ;)

*reads said thread*
*rolls on floor laughing*
*understands Tg perfectly*

:D :cool: :D

Serena - your account of watching ROTK in German was really interesting. I've sometimes wondered what it would be like, watching the LOTR films in another language - I love Elijah/Frodo's voice so much I find it very hard to contemplate. Co-incidentally, just before reading your message I had been writing to someone else about how Frodo's beautiful, gentle narration at the end of ROTK contributes so much to the intense emotion, from the hobbits' return to the Shire right up to the Grey Havens.
At least it seems the narrators were making an effort to sound like the actors, which I don't think is always the case in every non-English speaking country. And you got the genuine grunts and groans, which is something!!

It just goes to show how intrinsic his voice is to his whole persona. He has one of the most beautiful voices ever (as well as the most beautiful face). And when you add the personality .... the combination is devastating. I never cease to be amazed by it.

Absolutely - and after more than two years my amazement continues to grow. I think his face and voice share the same attributes - a unique blend of gentleness, strength and beauty - and I guess you could say exactly the same about his personality:)

Hobmom - I have voted in the Golden Gandalf Awards - I really hope he wins the special award for interaction with the fans - he certainly deserves to:)

Shireling - I wondered where you'd got to! I do check your LJ if I haven't seen you in here for a while, just to reassure myself that you're still around - but nothing in there since Jan 28th!
I have updated it now, Blossom! I'm always full of good intentions and bright ideas about updating it, just as I am with posting here and elsewhere, but I think I'm a bit greedy in wanting to be everywhere at once so that I don't miss anything - and then there is no time:) Anyway, a word of warning before you visit my LJ again - make sure you're sitting down before you click on the link to the LJ-cut - a beautiful, heartbreaking pic but I think probably in the over-18 category which is why I can't include a link here:)

Not sure if this has already been mentioned but there is a Starburst LOTR Special out now, at least in the UK and I should imagine in the US - its a wonderful, 63-page spread including a really good interview with Elijah and most of the cast and loads of pics. One snippet from Lij's interview which some may already know - his last scene ever filmed, done during pick-ups last June, is where he's at Bilbo's desk and he say's to Sam "There's room for a little more". Knowing this, if you watch his face when he says this in the film, you can somehow sense the extra emotion there.

I wonder If our boy is an Alpha Male basic kind of thinker?

Some of the things he says just make my head tingle.

the emotion does show through in his acting, but his deamenor is so Earthy, or am I missing something? Was Bacchus considered earthy or just plain Emotional?

The movie Child in the Night arrived today.
:)
OK...let my just put up spoiler warnings first before I give my impressions to anybody that might be interested.


*** Spoilers CHILD IN THE NIGHT ***




Where to begin?
In short: I did not like this movie at all. I have difficulties finding something positive in it.
As much as I loved Chain of Fools, I pretty much hated this movie. (It's going to end up very low in my list of EJW movies)
As much as I thought that the script of CoF must have been fun to write, this script must have been a rush job.

And what about the acting? How bad was that! Special mention here for the actress playing the mother of Luke. :eek: :D
OK, some of the actors were better than others. The actor playing the detective wasn't that bad. The female therapist could have been worse too although some of her scenes were cringeworthy. Elijah did his best in it with the little experience he had at that time. You can see his talents peeping through in certain scenes but he just had to fight against too much rubbish in this tv movie.
The rest of them were ...sorry...bad.

The storyline is really unbelievable. OK, I admit that most tv movies are not known for clever plot lines but they didn't even try to make it plausible. The final plotline with the Grandfather? :eek: Come on!

Really, just about the only good thing about it was that I was able to see a very young Elijah Wood in a movie I hadn't seen before.
And we get to see him in a Peter Pan outfit. :D Great stuff!



*** End of Spoilers CHILD IN THE NIGHT ***


My "The Bumblebee Flies Away" video has arrived too and I will be able to retrieve the package tomorrow. A lot of EJW fans seem to like that movie, so I'm curious about it.


Today, I was taking care of one of my Godchildren. He's a cute little boy who can't speak yet but he's very communicative in his own unique way.
I saw him flipping through one of the LOTR books (the ROTK visual companion). His reactions were fun to watch.
His reaction to the Orcs: YUCK!!! (or: in Flemish that's EIK)
Whenever he saw one of the heroes with a sword or a bow (like Aragorn, the Rohirrim...), he started acting out little battle scenes against shadows around him, striking a pose and waving an imaginary sword whilst shouting Roarrrrr
The picture of Frodo (Mount Doom):
- *points at dirt on Frodo's face and with a look of disgust on his own little face*: YUCK
- *points at blood on Frodo's face and with a sad expression*: Awwwww
He didn't know what to make of Gollum. I saw him thinking "What in heaven's name is THAT?". So, I told him: "He's weird, isn't he?". He couldn't agree with me more: he nodded his head.
My Godson was fun to watch! I wouldn't dream of showing him the movies at his young age (too scary for him) but he enjoyed the pictures.


Serena, I always thought that the Germans are better at add-lipping than the French. That may be because German and English are more similar languages (same origin) than French and English. :confused:
I haven't seen any dubbed French movies recently, so maybe they're better at it now (I might be selling them short and any French people watching this: feel free to correct me :) )
In the French movies I saw (years ago), they often used female voices for the kids' voices (very annoying) and the Germans try more to find a German voice that fits with the image on the screen.

Alyon and Hobmom, went to TORN and voted!

Moondancer, I loved your Child in the Night write-up! (I've never seen it -- now I feel as if I really don't need to). :D Looking forward to your thoughts on TBFA.

from Moondancer
The picture of Frodo (Mount Doom):
- *points at dirt on Frodo's face and with a look of disgust on his own little face*: YUCK
This was not my reaction. It is safe to say, my reaction was different. My reaction was very, very different. (Gazes at picture of dirty, bloody Frodo crawling up Mt Doom, which is currently displayed on Mariole's wallpaper...)

Shireling, I would kill to see that Starburst LOTR Special. Well, maim, maybe... Does anyone know if it's available in the US?

Happy Birthday, Bunnie! :k Hope you're still lurking with us. :)


A couple of nights ago Sir Ian McKellen was interviewed on BBC's HardTalk. He talked about LOTR, of course, and his work, and then the question about how he felt re: no acting noms for LOTR came up. As usual he reiterated that he had been nominated for FotR so it's not like the LOTR cast had always been ignored, but he was saddened that the performance by Andy Serkis would be ignored simply because there's no proper category to nominate him in.

And then, he mentions Elijah Wood. :) How surprising it is that no one is acknowledging Elijah, considering the weight of the responsibility that he bore on his young shoulders, and how much Elijah had accomplished. I'm paraphrasing, obviously. I honestly wasn't expecting Sir Ian to talk about Elijah at all so when he suddenly did I was just staring at the TV, mouth agape, rather than being prepared with pen and paper to copy his words down! Darn it, I should have known better. :p This is our Sir Ian McKellen after all!

Well, that's my quick report for today. And here's my Decipher homework submission for today:

http://shop.decipher.com/Images/CardImages/LOTR-EN08110.jpg

Thanks for the warning, ainon.
BBC is one of the channels I can watch. I saw Ian McKellen's interview with Parkinson, last week.
What a great man!

Anyway, for all those who missed the interview: I know that the BBC has a fantastic site so I went and searched for it and ...:) :)...
you can see it online on the BBC site.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/hardtalk/3490454.stm
The Elijah Wood comment can be found at about 8:55 minutes into the interview.

Oops, that Decipher card is wrong. It should read "Plains of Gorgoroth." Movie RotK doesn't even have the Morgai. Oh well. Maybe they needed the Morgai in the game.

But I still like the card because you get such a good look at the two of the them up going up Mount Doom. They have nothing on them. No backpack or bread in the their pockets or elven cloak or even a water bottle. *thinks of the what I take when I go out -- purse, tote bag with powerbar for munchies, sweater to carry, various other Boy Scout "be prepared stuff."* :rolleyes:

Meanwhile, Elijah is really slumped over, to the point where it would be hard to walk.

Happy birthday, Bunnie Bugs!

http://www.candylandcrafts.com/images/heathershellcake.jpg

Just a really quick post, here - sorry to hear about your hard drive crash, Serena - to drop off a transcript I did of Robert Rodriguez's comments on Elijah from the commentary track of Spy Kids 3-D (which is by far the worst of the Spy Kids flicks). Here's what he has to say through EW's appearance...


He discusses how the characters in the movie talk from early on about "The Guy" and "You're the Guy" and "You're not the Guy", then says;

In the script originally, it even said, "When the real Guy shows up," it says, "it's Elijah Wood!" ... and everyone said, "You're really getting Elijah?" and I said, "Well, actually, I haven't asked him yet." So… I called him up, he came down to Austen to visit for something else, and uh - look at the suit he's wearing; that's actually Juni's suit, it barely fits on him, we carved it up, painted it silver, 'cause we shot the kids months before, two months before, and Elijah came in for one day, and I wanted to do this whole reverse Lord of the Rings thing, where - Elijah's actually looking at the ground, that's how tall I made him seem, so that he would just be towering over the children, and here comes the Lord of the Ring shot, where now they're the hobbits, looking up at him, and he's just towering over them, you see; look at how small Juni is, compared to him, so I had them looking up at him at like an eight foot tall pole, and I had him looking down at the floor, with the cameras really low, to give that sense that he's just huge, and I think he liked that.

But if you look close, that suit, is just taped on; you see how it doesn't really go all the way around him, because it's not built for him, it was built for the kid, and we just recycled it, put some motorcycle gloves and boots and Elijah was tickled about the whole low tech we were doing.. [sound switches over to the movie itself for Elijah's line, "cake." - I've only listened to the commentary once, but I think this is about the only time we hear a line where Rodriguez is discussing the actual acting being done :p ] Great line reading. You know, at one point there- That was a good fall by him.

He's really funny; Elijah's a great guy. Of course, all the kids worshipped him. They had to come back just to meet him. And, uh, I wanted Elijah, because I thought, you know, for a kid seeing this movie, he would be as heroic a character as you could get would be, you know, Frodo. And I'd worked with him on a movie called The Faculty, so he's been - he's just a great kid. Just very much reminds me of Darryl, here; they've got the same sort of personality, they're just really good people.

Happy birthday, Peaceweaver! :)

and

Belated happy birthday, BunnieBugs! :)

From Mariole
It is safe to say, my reaction was different. My reaction was very, very different. (Gazes at picture of dirty, bloody Frodo crawling up Mt Doom, which is currently displayed on Mariole's wallpaper...)
It is safe to say it wasn't my reaction either. The only reason why crawling Frodo is not my wallpaper, too, is that Angsty!Poster!Frodo-in-Mordor has to take presedence even so. It's pretty weird, looking at those pictures and thinking of the gift Elijah Wood has given us with his heartbreaking, beautiful Frodo, - and then realizing how strangely easy it is, nevertheless, to reconcile that to this intensely happy young man in a glittering costume in New Orleans, enjoying being king for a day, getting quite drunk and serenading fans with, - uhm - questionable lyrics. I can't but enjoy it and love the guy no matter *what* he gets up to. :)


Moondancer, I'm sure you're going to enjoy Bumblebee. You ended up buying a region 1 tape/DVD, didn't you? I've been looking all over the place for a region 2 one, but I've pretty much given up. It seemingly doesn't exist.


Oh, I'd love to see the "Starburst" LotR special, too. I'd love to have some good quality Frodo in Mt. Doom pictures. :)


ainon, thanks for the heads-up re. Ian McKellen's interview. I couldn't agree with him more. I guess Elijah's probably going to be at the Oscars, despite not being nominated (which still makes me very grumpy!!) as a guest of PJ or something? I certainly hope so.

It's impossible to compete with Sheryl's cakes :) (is that coral edible?), so here's a somewhat louder --
Birthday greeting to peaceweaver!

http://www.imagemagician.com/images/tgshaw/off topic/birthday56-resized.jpg

Wonderful that some people are making an effort to keep Elijah's name "out there." Sir Ian is undoubtedly more articulate than Mr. Rodriguez :p , but, still, here's another man who obviously gets Frodo--and Frolijah :cool: :
And, uh, I wanted Elijah, because I thought, you know, for a kid seeing this movie, he would be as heroic a character as you could get would be, you know, Frodo.
Translation ;) :
I wanted Elijah, because I thought a kid watching this movie would consider Frodo to be the most heroic character imaginable.
That you for that wonderful comment, Robert :) .

Sure the coral's edible. (I think. :p ) Looks like white chocolate candy piped onto something flat, to me.

Happy Birthday, peaceweaver!

http://www.carlocksbakery.com/pics/cakes/basket_weave.jpg

I was delighted the Robert Rodriguez "gets" Frodo, myself.

How's the moving going, tg?

Should go listen to Mr. McKellan.

Sheryl

I just finished watching TBFA.
What an emotional roaler coaster that is!

posted by Maeglian
You ended up buying a region 1 tape/DVD, didn't you?
I bought a VCR tape.

OK, before I begin writing my impressions, first the spoiler warnings.
To anybody who has not yet seen this movie: please skip it and let the movie surprise you.


*** Spoilers The Bumblebee Flies Anyway ***




Wow! What an experience!
Did I like the movie?
It moved me, it brought tears to my eyes....so, yes: I loved it.

I like the fact that we don't know a lot about Barney. This way,
it's easier - as a viewer - to identifty with the amnesia and with the frustration of wanting to know more.
Maybe I wasn't watching carefully enough but I didn't see the story twist coming. I was wondering about his treatment and why exactly they treated Barney like that. What the point was of the experiment and why they did it in that place for the terminally ill children but I didn't really expect him to be a cancer patient too.

In the very beginning, there's the scene between Dr. Marie Harriman (Janeane Garofalo) and Barney. When he leaves her office and before he opens the door he asks her: "What about you?". The doctor replies: "What? Am I ill?"
You see Barney smiling very briefly, but his face gets serious and somber again quickly. I love that smile. You can see Barney thinking about the fact that the doctor was a bit confused by his question.
(By the way, Elijah actually looks tall next to that actress :D )

The story about the twin brother and sister. "At least one of us should have a life worth living". This is a scene that was made for a maximum emotional impact and as such, it's predictable but...it worked (in my case anyway). :(
I'm a surviving twin (identical twins...long story.) and I always feel that at least I have to go and try to have a good life for the both of us. So, I can identify with that scene a bit, although our situations are (of course) completely and utterly different.

The bouncing of the ball: he sits on the floor and bounces the ball. You hear 2 sounds of the ball hitting the opposite wall and the floor, followed by the sound of him catching the ball again.
Elijah Wood once talked about Steve McQueen (in a very positive way) in an interview. That bouncing ball routine was done also by Steve in The Great Escape (I love that movie). I wonder if that was a conscious decision to do this just like McQueen or is that just coincidence?

One slightly negative point: I didn't like the accompanying music.

Silly observation #1: Barney wears a red shirt a couple of times, but mostly blue and green. Three colours he wears well (I loved his green velvet suit Elijah had on for one of the award shows): good job from whoever was responsible for the clothes of Elijah/Barney (although it makes his wardrobe a tiny bit predictable).
Silly observation #2: When Barney makes that car and you see him working in a sleeveless shirt...:D :rolleyes:...he has surprisingly good arm muscles... It reminded me of Miranda Otto's remark about Elijah (that he's indeed tiny but he has an athletic build).
Silly observation #3: I love his voice. :D


Thank you for recommending this movie. I thoroughly enjoyed it.
I need to see this again to take it all in and to fully grasp this movie.




*** End of Spoilers The Bumblebee Flies Anyway ***


Now that I have seen a couple of his movies in a row.
This week, I saw The War (had seen that before and this remains one of my top EJW movies), The Ice Storm (fantastic) and The Bumblebee (let's just forget about The Child in the Night, shall we?).
Elijah really adapts completely to the character. Not just by the use of his voice and things like that but also different elements of body language. There are common elements of course (it's acted out by the same person, after all) but he does certain things differently for various roles. Like the way he walks in The War, it is different from the way he seems to be walking in real life or in other movies.


PS Happy Birthday, peaceweaver! :)


Edit: here's a link to a very good review for Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind.
Ruffalo and Wood are hilariously memorable in their offbeat roles
link: here (http://www.shadowsonthewall.co.uk/04/etersuns.htm)

Moondancer--so glad you liked TBFA :) !! And I totally agree about The War and The Ice Storm--IMHO, Elijah's two best non-LotR movies.

Thanks for the ESOTSM link--the reviewer kinda liked it a bit, didn't he? :p




*** Spoilers The Bumblebee Flies Anyway ***





Originally posted by Moondancer
Maybe I wasn't watching carefully enough but I didn't see the story twist coming.
Neither did I. In fact, I thought I had the plot all figured out--until it swerved like that :) . But, of course, the second time I watched it, I picked up lots of clues :rolleyes: .

Elijah Wood once talked about Steve McQueen (in a very positive way) in an interview. That bouncing ball routine was done also by Steve in The Great Escape (I love that movie). I wonder if that was a conscious decision to do this just like McQueen or is that just coincidence?
The ball bouncing seems to be the externalization of something the book character does in his mind--whenever he starts getting too "close" to the memories that have been blocked, a rhythmical "mantra" starts in his mind that gets him back onto "safe ground" (although for the book character there is no safe ground--but that's another whole discussion!). The way I understand it, it's the fact that the action has a steady rhythm to it that's important.

It would be interesting to know who had the actual idea of the ball bouncing. Maybe Elijah was told his character needed to have a rhythmical activity of that type, and he came up with the Steve McQueen homage? This is one movie I'd love to have commentary for. But the making of it was anything but smooth, with the producers changing a lot of things in the story mid-stream, against the wishes of the director--so I don't expect to hear anything from the director, at least. Once in awhile a "huh?" moment pops up (One is Barney knocking on the door "for luck") that have context in the book but not in the movie, and I find myself wondering if some of that came from the late changes made in the story.







*** End of Spoilers The Bumblebee Flies Anyway ***




Elijah really adapts completely to the character. Not just by the use of his voice and things like that but also different elements of body language. There are common elements of course (it's acted out by the same person, after all) but he does certain things differently for various roles. Like the way he walks in The War, it is different from the way he seems to be walking in real life or in other movies.
Once in a great while, I'll notice a fleeting similarity between two of Elijah's characters. But that's so much the exception more than the rule, that it kind of surprises me when it happens (even the vast majority of Froshadowings don't actually show us Elijah's Frodo). IMHO, this is amazing, given that I've seen, uh... twenty-five of his movies (so far :rolleyes: )! It's hard to think of many other actors that can be said about.

The Frodo and Sam picture made me think of two Alpha Males on a Journey. What else would the picture look like?

I loved TBFA. I also loved the part where he is building a car. Elijah's big powerful arms surprised me, then I wondered if the car he was buliding would actually work. It made me laugh. Also seeing him at his Real Height after seeing him at Hobbit height shocked me. Then I laughed. He also looks tall next to Rachel Leigh Cook. Wouldn't you want to be her? Snuggled against that chest? (he DOES have an athletic build. :eek: :D ) What shocked me at first was seeing his naked chest. (I sure don't remember ANY nudity in the book version. :eek: Nor was there any actual scene where he got any treatments like that on a bed. :eek: )

One thing I'm confused about is seeing an earlier post about how Tolkien imagined Elijah Wood, and this is what REALLY made Elijah perfect for Frodo. (his physical appearance being exactly what the book version said). Could somebody explain this concept to me? (as in what the post actually said?)

Originally posted by Shadowcat
He also looks tall next to Rachel Leigh Cook. Wouldn't you want to be her? Snuggled against that chest? (he DOES have an athletic build. :eek: :D ) What shocked me at first was seeing his naked chest
HA...I forgot my silly observation #4: He looks like a very good hugger. He totally wraps the other person in his arms. (But we've seen evidence of his hugging talents in the LOTR as well).

So, the naked chest scenes, the bed treatment,...wasn't in the book. Was the shower scene in the book?
don't laugh...that's a serious question
If it isn't, than somebody behind the scenes was sure trying to do her or his best to make the public fall for Barney.
The colour scheme in his clothes that brings out his eye-colour even more.
The sleeveless shirt
The shower scene
Barney laying on the bed with his eyes closed. (I love seeing that because you can see the shape of his eyes really well that way).


What's the author of the book and what's the book title? Anyone?
If it's a well-known book, I might find it in my local library.

posted by tgshaw
It's hard to think of many other actors that can be said about.
Yep, I've been thinking about it.
Some actors are very recognizable in every movie. I mean, they take the body language they have developped as an actor from movie to movie. John Wayne is a very good example of an actor with a trademark walk.
Other actors try to adapt to a certain character, but it's not easy to change the way you use your hands, they way you walk,.... I assume that it's not easy to make it look natural.
In The War, Elijah uses his voice differently, he walks and runs differently, he uses an accent,...
Like I said, he totally adapts himself to the character and he makes it all look easy.

By the way, I can't possibly tell if his accent was good. I know that his accent in Twist wasn't that good, his accent in LOTR was very good (or so I've read in various forums) but what about his accent in The War?
(I guess that you have to be a native speaker to hear that)

Edit to add that I've read in the TORN message board that Elijah is going to be on Jay Leno's show on March 10th. Not that I can see that show (we used to be able to see it but not any longer :() but I will probably find a transcript or pictures somewhere.

Originally posted by Moondancer
So, the naked chest scenes, the bed treatment,...wasn't in the book. Was the shower scene in the book?
don't laugh...that's a serious question

What's the author of the book and what's the book title? Anyone?
If it's a well-known book, I might find it in my local library.

The book has the same title as the movie, and the author is Robert Cormier. I just checked Amazon and they have three used copies available (it's no longer in print). I haven't run across TBFA in a library, but have seen some of the author's better-known books there, such as The Chocolate War. This is one of those book-to-movie cases where the two are so different I don't know why the people making the movie didn't just change the characters' names and not worry about buying the rights to the book. Even though the movie keeps the book's title, it completely changes the significance of the title's meaning.


Comments on TBFA book--slightly spoilerish, but in a general way





The main difference between the book and the movie that leads to many other changes is that the book is much, much, much darker than the movie. Robert Cormier was known for writing "dark" books aimed at teenagers, and TBFA certainly measures up! There are no "feel good" moments in the book.

Barney is a completely different character in the book than he is in the movie. He doesn't come across as someone you'd necessarily want to see bare-chested; IIRC, he's kind of scrawny. There is something like the shower scene, but it's played for a completely different reason--it's part of Barney starting to see the symptoms of his illness coming back, a process that's emphasized a lot more in the book (all we really get in the movie is that one twinge of pain). I think it's very interesting that, judging by the publication date, the book was written around the time when AIDS had started appearing but no one knew yet what it was, where it was coming from, or what caused it--because Barney's symptoms are very similar to Kaposi's sarcoma, a cancer that's rare outside of AIDS. The most noticeable symptom is purple blotches under the skin, and that's what Barney starts seeing when he takes off his clothes. So the scene definitely isn't there to make him seem more attractive :( !

BTW, in the book we aren't told specifically what illnesses any of the patients are suffering from. We just see (and smell! in Mazzo's case) their symptoms through Barney's POV, and he's completely clueless--about most things in life. Poor Barney :( -- in the book he's heartbreaking--nothing good ever happens for him.




End of comments on TBFA book



----------Thanks for the heads-up on Jay Leno's program. Wonder if the purpose is as least partly to talk about ESOTSM? That could be great transition timing for Elijah--shortly after RotK's visibility at the Academy Awards and shortly before his next movie comes out :cool: .

---------Sheryl and others who've asked: the moving is going more slowly than it should, but that's my own fault :rolleyes: . I'm beginning to face the reality that I may have to skip the movie this weekend :eek: in order to get enough done! (And since, with the schedules the theaters are running now, the only time I can go is on the weekends, that means going two weeks without. :( )

By the way, I can't possibly tell if his accent was good. I know that his accent in Twist wasn't that good, his accent in LOTR was very good (or so I've read in various forums) but what about his accent in The War?

Hello, All! This is my first time posting in this particular thread (though I am an absolutely HUGE Elijah Fan!).

As a born and raised southern flower, I can tell you that Elijah's accent in the war was ALMOST dead on accurate. I was VERY impressed as southern accents are really hard to do accurately. Most of the time, they come out sounding 'Scarlett O'Hara-ish'...simply 'ovah' done. They may have talked like that down here a hundred years ago, but not in the 1970's. Elijah had just enough drawl without it sounding too fake.

Funnily enough, I was watching the "making of 'the long and short of it'" on TTT dvd and noticed Elijah using the word, "ya'll". I laughed out loud...not only because I was thinking, "Sweetie, you are from Iowa originally and mainly raised in southern California...where in the world did THAT come from?"...but also because when he said it, it didn't sound at all like when I say it. He said it almost like the two words it is a contraction for (you all)...it came out sounding like, 'ya-all' - LOL!! Where as, when I say it (and I say it OFTEN!) it is much more blended and has more of an 'awww' sound at the end instead of the harder 'L' sound. Yep. I'm facinated by accents!

Hope it's ok to 'digress' back to Elijah's Frodo. Rotk's not playing near me any more so am back to depending on the book. While reading the Frodo & Boromir chapter (which left me in tears, as did the movie version) I thought how awesome it would be if BBC created a series of one-act plays starring EJW as Frodo (sorta like Peter Firth as Alan Strand in Equus, only the reverse of stage to movie) and an all British/DownUnder cast. Preferably, PJ's casting would apply wherever possible, except John Rhyse-Davies because he's too tall :D. I wouldn't miss Viggo Aragorn because, although he made an appealing Aragorn, he wasn't regal and enigmatic (British? ;) ) enough for my imagined Strider. I wouldn't miss Sean A because, although he did an admirable job with Sam, he was too American for my taste and had too many 'issues' that affected his portrayal imo (e.g. political, the need for closeups/foreground attention etc).

The plays would be based entirely on COMPLETE book scenes and dialog. For starters:
>'Elves in the Shire'scene with Gildor and F&S.
>'Flight to the Ford' with Glorfindal of course.
>'Boromir and Eli- I mean Frodo ;) scene, including the lead up. The tension in the book version is far greater than that in the movie although I like PJ's version too.
>'Faramir and Frodo'

Book dialogs in these scenes are superb and would lend themselves to fine stage settings (designed by our beloved pair, Howe and Lee?) and err Howard Shore's specially written music.

Among the added benefits are:
> EJW wouldn't be intimidated because he KNOWS this character.
> BUT, Elijah would be required to read the books - and encouraged to provide input.
> Elijah would be a bit older.
> As a result of the experience, Elijah might be drawn into the British Shakespeare circuit, to be seen in such roles as Romeo, Ariel, Hamlet - even a blackened Iago... etc.
> Book fans would be pleased because they'd finally hear Elijah speaking all those wonderful Fro-lines that PJ left out.
> EJW/movie fans would be pleased because the show would tour all the major cities of the world and they'd all get to see, probably even meet, Fr- the cast in the flesh!
> Tolkien, GRHS, would be pleased for obvious reasons.

Size would not be an issue as long as hobbits are shortish, and men/elves/wizards are tallish. Careful staging, props, and costumes could accentuate the contrast. And Elijah is slim and light enough that even a reasonably tall Glorfindel could probably lift him easily (to examine the darkening wound).

Re: Elijah in all-British company - well he's an honorary Britain anyway as a close (if not intimate - just kidding) friend of Dom, Billy, and Sir Ian.

I don't know director names but someone of the Stratford upon Avon caliber, perhaps...

Other thoughts?

Sorry to butt in, but a first shot of the Red Carpet hobbits, hot off the press...

http://us.news1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/rids/20040301/i/r50961655.jpg

Thanks, Erendis. I'm trying to catch the oscars at the Web site - streaming Press Room- as I don't have TV. Wonderful cap you got - They're so enchanting, those hobbits!

Oscar spoilers--entire post


Well, lots of chances to see everyone who's sitting close to PJ and Fran tonight :) . And so far, whoever's picked the clips to show for each award seems to get Frolijah in there one way or another... except for the last award won, sound mixing, for which it seemed the clips for all the nominated movies were from battles... (not nominated for the latest--sound editing). I was especially glad to see the CoD shown as a make-up example: I think some people just think of the "monsters" etc.

It's so nice to have Billy Crystal back as host :) (and he made a great Legolas :p ). Last comment: "It's now official. There's no one left in New Zealand to thank." :p


Ooo---best original score up right this moment! Yes!! (And Frodo's Grey Havens smile in the clip :) ). Nice shot of Annie Lennox--she seems delighted for Howard.

Best film editing--still on a roll. And a lovely shot of Elijah laughing at something the recipient said (I couldn't understand it :o ).

From Billy Crystal after that one: "People are moving to New Zealand just to get thanked."

More Frodo at the CoD for the best adapted screenplay clip--who's picking these out? :)

YES!!! YES!!! YES!!! CLEAN SWEEP!!!

11 OSCARS!!!:) :) :)

CONGRATULATIONS TO PJ, THE CAST, AND EVERYONE CONCERNED WITH THIS WONDERFUL TRILOGY.

I'M SO PLEASED FOR THEM - especially Best Director and Best Film!

That's about all I can say at the moment.

Oh my! This was fantastic! I'm so happy! :)

Loved PJ's speech for Best Picture. Loved all the guys joining him up on the stage. Loved BO thanking the fans. Loved it all. :)

Signing off now, stumbling squeeingly off to get one hour of sleep if possible.

Just some news that you all might be interested in! I think I like this idea!

From Comingsoon.net

Liev Schreiber, starring next in Paramount's upcoming remake of The Manchurian Candidate, will make his directorial debut with a feature adaptation of Jonathan Safran Foer's bestselling novel Everything Is Illuminated, for Warner Independent Pictures. Variety says the film has already garnered interest from Elijah Wood and Jason Schwartzman, though no deals are yet in place.

Schreiber, who optioned the rights to the book after reading an excerpt in the New Yorker, wrote the screenplay and brought it to the studio, which has greenlit the project and will handle worldwide distribution. Shooting is scheduled to start this June in Prague.

"Illuminated" is the story of a young Jewish-American man who sets out to the Ukraine to find the woman who may have saved his grandfather from the Nazis and the Holocaust.


CONGRATULATIONS TO THE CAST AND CREW OF LOTR!!!

YIPPI YIPPI YIPPI!!!!!!!!!
THE WINNER TAKES IT ALL, 11 OSCARS!!!!!!
A big hug and kisses to all the cast and crew they did a
incredibel job they so deservs this!!!!
did you guys se Elijahs face on stage when they pick up
there last award he was so happ i think he was crying
anybody a gets a picture an that one i hope they post it in here,
oh i just love that his not afraid to show how he fells.
tears in his boutiful face i just love him!!!!!!:k :k :k :cool: :cool:
:) :) :D :D

YIPEE!!!

And thanks for that beautiful picture, Erendis!!:D :D Didn't they all look great?? And didn't Elijah look Elegant??? I'm so glad Peter made sure to thank the cast. With everyone else going up for awards, someone had better point out the players of the characters we all went to see. Lovely.

(((Naiad))) Interesting ideas!! I'll look at them more closely tomorrow when I've had some sleep.:)

Augh!!!! I MISSED it! Stupid, tricksy Tivo; it stole my Precious! OOH I hope someone, somewhere will have a picture up of PJ and cast on stage for Best Picture! Puh-leeeessssse!

But weren't the Hobbits adorable? Everyone of them.

Am watching TORN's live web-cam, even though I can make our narry a thing. At one point PJ seemed to be telling a longish story about Elijah mumble mumble mumble at 4:00 in the morning mumble mumble mumble and Dom mumble mumble mumble..... :confused: :(

Hope somebody is gonna trascript everything that was said by PJ and company.

***SIGH***

Honey!

Shiny new hard disk enables me to say

PJ FOR PRIME MINISTER !!!!!

It's about all that's left - don't suppose he'd want to be Pope. But then you never know .... ;)

Still busy recording BBC breakfast TV coverage of the Oscars. Tons of coverage of our Elwood. It's just wonderful. (A slightly lurching Ian McKellen just being interviewed! :D)

In a way the 11 awards almost make the lack of actor nominations right. If someone had been nominated and not won, it would have spoilt the clean sweep and would have been all the more heartbreaking. And the way it has worked out highlights the acting all the more - everyone knows that the films would not have worked without that spectacular and charismatic cast. And Elijah still has a special award to look forward to in the future. He must be very happy. :)

Still so happy! Still so tired! Still wanting to be directed to more pictures and behind-the-scenes squeeage!


The official New Line site for LotR has updated already, telling the world of their 11 RotK Oscars. They've also got a long and nice new "Trilogy trailer" with highlights from all 3 films (still including some scenes that never made it onto the DVDs). They present the trailer as follows:

Your introduction to the epic tale of The One Ring and how one small hobbit changes the course of the world."

And it's true, the trailer is rather Frodo-focused. I'm not complaining. :)

Thanks for the tip, Maeg!

Sorry to hear of lost Precious, Honey - but someone is bound to have that pic up soon. Not to mention the whole clip. Can't say how indebted I feel to frodoandsam.net ...
And yes, the hobbits are totally adorable. Even the Beeb kept talking about hobbits non-stop. And EW is truly a household name now :)

Glad took morning off work .... can now wander off in that direction with silly happy dazed smile and they will all wonder why. Or will they? Maybe I underestimate their powers of perception .... :D ;)

Sigh!!! What a beautiful, triumphant night for our boys ('specially our most special boy!)! Just wanted to come and post a little congrats! I am so proud of everyone! We always knew they were great...now everyone else does as well!

Oh, Frabjous Day! Congratulations to PJ, Fran, Philippa, et al! Best Oscar show I ever watched!

I am so delighted for everyone involved in LoTR, including Elwood.

And thanks for the b-day wishes from my dear colleagues...

Outside the theater Joan Rivers got together with the hobbits. Sean was in the back but end up stealing the scene when Joan caught him making a cell phone call to his brother. He said "love you" to his brother. Awwwwww, so sweet. Then his brother told him to "loose the glasses" on TV and so Sean did. LOL!

Inside the theater one of the hostess got a hold of Elijah and he couldn't stop staring at her dress because it had over $2 million worth of diamonds sewn into the fabric. Peter suggested that they steal the dress and run run run away with it. I'm sure there must be bodyguards for that dress. Elijah looked spendid and elegant, and quit dapper too! Personally I was glad he wasn't wearing the standard tux since only a few men can get away with bowties. In fact none of the hobbits wore tux, I think, but black suits with a different variation of the black tie.

Liv looked smashing. I love her glasses when she was presenter.

Originally posted by CandyGirl
Hello, All! This is my first time posting in this particular thread (though I am an absolutely HUGE Elijah Fan!).

As a born and raised southern flower, I can tell you that Elijah's accent in the war was ALMOST dead on accurate. I was VERY impressed as southern accents are really hard to do accurately.
Hi there, CandyGirl.
So, his accent was very good?
Thanks for answering that question.
:)

erm.....Happy belated Birthday, peaceweaver! :k :k :k

Last night I was so Oscar-obsessed that I forgot to either wish you a Happy Birthday or give you your gift.:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: And this was before all the wine and champagne! :o

It was the Best Oscar Night Ever. One never to be forgotten!

:cool: :D :cool:

Woo-Hoo! Congrats to the whole LotR cast and crew!!

http://img1.photobucket.com/albums/0903/whiteling/feuerwerk2.jpg


And better late than never: Happy Birthday, Peaceweaver! (Hoping the cake is still edible, I mean, hey, the picture is obviously a little dated ;) !)

http://img1.photobucket.com/albums/0903/whiteling/Maness_Geburtstag.jpg

----------------------
Welcome, CandyGirl :) !

Hi there, CandyGirl.
So, his accent was very good?
Thanks for answering that question.

Hi there, right back at you, Moondancer!
:)

Yes...Elijah's southern accent in 'The War' was VERY good! He must have really spent some time listening to some REAL southern people talk to get it as close as he did. I for one was impressed! The only thing I noted him doing that was a bit of a giveaway that he was DOING an accent (rather than being fully convincing as HAVING a southern accent) is when, near the end of the movie, he says the word "God"...it didn't sound southern at all. When HE said it, the 'o' sounded more like a short 'a' (like in the word 'apple' or 'attic', etc.) so it came out sounding like "Gaad"...where as, when someone with a a southern accent says it, the 'o' sounds more like 'ah', and we would probably dwell on it a bit longer (we LUUUUUV our vowels!:p), so it typically comes out sounding more like "Gahd"...or in certain areas of the south, "Gawd".

Ooops!! Sorry to ramble on like that...hope I haven't bored anyone to sleep with going on about accents.:eek:

Later!
cp

Hi CandyGirl, and welcome to the Faculty. You clearly belong here! But, please NEVER apologize for going on about accents or anything else having to do with an Elwood performance. That is just what we are here for! :)

Medieval Cake! I love it!

CP, I knew it was you! (((((CP))))) I could tell from the way you wrote! This is one "Kitchen Lady" who has missed you! Glad to see you didn't drop off the planet! I'm glad you found your way here!

Ladies, CP is the coiner of the imortal line: "Look at the pretty hobbit! Wonder what he's thinking?" Well, words to that effect anyway! :D

Ahem.

Yes, ummmm....Did anyone watch the TORN webcam last night? I'm dying to know what PJ and all were saying! I am so kicking myself I didn't do the tookish thing, and just spring for the tickets! I haven't been That Part of the state in a long time! And yes, I would even go to That Part of the state to see Hobbits! :D

Happy birthday, Peaceweaver. And a belated b-day to Bunnie!

Honey!

(((((Honeyelf!!!!!!!))))) (Cp accidentally knocks Honeyelf over giving her a hug!! Oopsie!! Sorry!! Helps Honeyelf up and dusts her off a bit...blush!)

Hello and how ARE you? I'm so excited to find you here, too! It's true I have not been to the "Kitchen" in quite a while and I do miss all the ladies over there. I lurked more than I posted anyway. But I haven't even lurked lately. I love the discussions over there, but sometimes they can be so slow moving that I forget what the question or topic was before the answer/reply comes up :confused:. So, mostly, I just lurk. I probably learn more that way anyway. By the way, thank you...how flattering that you remembered my quote! "Hey! There goes a pretty hobbit...I wonder what it's thinking?":D

I actually stumbled upon this thread (and this forum) quite by accident. I had heard that there was such a thing as a "Frodoll" (an 8 inch, fully jointed posable doll of Elijah as Frodo with 'real' hair and fabric clothes) and was looking on the net for info on where to find one and was directed to the "Frodoll Journals" thread in this forum. (Which reminds me, I need to get over there and tell them about Frodoll's 'excitement' this past Friday afternoon...he was involved in a minor automobile accident with me...very minor, but quite tramatic for the poor darling none the less!:eek: ). I was very excited to find this forum as it seems a very warm and welcoming place for all things Frodo and Middle Earth. :D There seems to be a place for everyone. I tend to stick to this thread and the Frodoll Journal's one to post in (though I just started posting in here yesterday as a matter of fact.) I do admit to reading (and laughing my butt off) the "Harem" tread as well. Those ladies keep me entertained! (I mean all of that in a good way!:) )

I didn't know there WAS a TORN webcam until it was too late...:rolleyes: so I missed out on that. I think I might be willing to travel almost anywhere if I was guarenteed a hobbit siting!:D

Thank you for the welcome, Peaceweaver (cool name, by the way!)...and Happy Belated Birthday to you!

Honeyelf, I could use a transcript of the TORn party, too. All in good time! :)

Wood, the only pic I have of Elijah crying is a pretty grainy one. I'm sure there will be more soon! Sean looked like he was crying the most, and I believe I caught Dom flicking away a tear.

http://home.ricochet.com/mdes/limages/lijcry.jpg

Tg, I had the same thought about the many clips featuring Elijah. I loved the make-up one best! I could not comment on this at the time, as I was "flying under the radar" at a friend's place (they know I love LOTR, is all...). :p

Oselle made this observation in her LJ: "Did you catch Spielberg chatting up Elijah---with his arm around him---as they walked off stage?" :eek: I missed that! *Mariole starts to hyperventilate*

Thanks, hobbityme, for the additional movie info. *sighs happily*

Naiad, I really love your idea of EW performing the "unfilmed LOTR" scenes. As an American, I have no knowledge of this British Shakespeare circuit of which you speak, but I do happen to share your opinion of Sean A and Viggo. Let's hope EW can squeeze your plan in among his horde of upcoming movies. *crosses fingers*

Congratulations, Serena, on your new drive! *envies your BBC coverage*

Maeg, I must skitter right over to the official site. What wonderful presents we're getting lately!

Welcome, CandyGirl! I've lived in the South, but you're clearly the accent expert. Thanks for joining in!

Congratulations and hugs to all of you, ladies!:k
Last night was great for all of us.

P.S. How do you like our boy? He was gorgeous at Oscar and post-Oscar parties.

Of all the Oscar shows to miss, this was not the one - :( But I did. And was unaware of TORN's Web cam as well, so am mighty grateful for the caps found here :). Tried plying my sister for hobbity details as she watched the whole program, but the closest I got was Liv Tyler's dress!

All the good cheer here is wonderful, and though I didn't see much in the way of actual awards (and really wonder how even rotk could have deserved an award for best editing, considering the number of discontinuities that even amateurs caught :rolleyes:)- STILL - Congratulations and Gratitude to PJ and the superb troup of actors that brought JRRT's magnificent characters to life so beautifully (:raiseglass::throwconfetti: )!!! (:EXTRA TOAST:) for Elijah who deserved an award above all for his Frodo !*!*!

Btw, while keeping an eye on the Press Room cam at the Oscar site, I noticed a young man paying attentions to Renee Z. after her initial (pre-award, I think) press interview. The young man looked VERY much like EJW, though I couldn't swear to it. Any rumors along those lines?

Mariole - Oh! I'm not British either. Guess I was being overly familiar in referring to the Stratford Upon Avon theaters as the Shakespear circuit -now I'm truly embarrassed in front of those here who know alot more than I about such things .:rolleyes: Thank you for the mention of Spielberg's chumming of Elijah - ohhh, I wish I could have seen it (love seeing anyone with their arm around the boy).

Yay for PJ et al! Although I find ‘sweeping the board’ moments at Oscars rather cheesy, I was pleased. And Elijah looked dapper as ever. I kept on wondering if he and PJ (and maybe everyone else involved with LOTR) had decided to wear the same kind of suit. Much nicer than bowties, anyway.

In the current edition of Empire magazine there’s an advert for the next edition – and it’s all about ESOTSM! Yay! I was so worried about this flick, that it would be too arthouse and bomb like Human Nature, but now it looks as if it might be a hit. (And on general release! Fingers crossed!!) I think especially as Kill Bill II has been delayed – it may fill the gap for ‘off beat indie’. It even led me wondering about next year’s Oscars, and the nods for best supporting actor… anyway. It’s only a matter of time.

Re ‘Everything is illuminated’ - I love Jason Schwatzman (IIRC correctly he was also in The Ice Storm, in the scenes with Tobey MacGuire and Katie Holmes) and it’s cool that Elijah is now at the forefront of all these talented actors – Tobes and Jake Gynahall who are picking really interesting projects.

(And Elijah as Bacchus – I once read a very strange old novel from the ‘30s that was a retelling of the Bacchus/Ariadne myth; in it Bacchus is portrayed as a beautiful young man and there’s a scene in which he seduces Ariadne by feeding her grapes. I, er, must see if I still have it…)

I went to a site called TV Zapit (or something). This was my feedback.


Are you *KIDDING*? Is it just coincidence that the highest ratings for the
Academy Awards occured in the year when Lord of the Rings swept 11 awards? And
you have not a single picture of a hobbit on your whole site?!? Elijah Wood,
Sean Astin, Dom Monaghan, Billy Boyd - glorious performers all - you could have
shown at least one hobbit! What on earth did you think people tuned in to see?
Twenty pictures of some actress that none of the 150 million or so people who
saw Return of the King could care less about? Did you even report if Orlando
Bloom, John Rhys-Davies, Karl Urban, or Viggo Mortenson or either of the Sir
Ian's were there?

May a rolling cavalry charge of the Riders of Rohan, led by Eomer of Rohan,
trample your source code and Joan Rivers's microphone.

~grumpywithapaperbagovermyhead

Originally posted by Shireling:
Anyway, a word of warning before you visit my LJ again - make sure you're sitting down before you click on the link to the LJ-cut - a beautiful, heartbreaking pic but I think probably in the over-18 category which is why I can't include a link here.
___________________________________________

Thanks for the warning, Shireling, but I had already seen that pic!!! It is quite stunning, but leaves you undecided whether you want to rescue/comfort him, or just have him for your breakfast, if you know what I mean! Just remembered - I’m in The Faculty Lounge, not The Harem. Sorry ladies - it’s all Shireling’s fault - she ought to be ashamed of herself!!!

I thought the BBC’s Oscar coverage was a bit dire. Jonathan Ross was OK - I think he genuinely likes the LOTR films, but the three people who where on with him to comment on the evening‘s events plain got on my nerves - especially Alistair McGowan. I taped it, but hadn’t taped the Film 2004 special which had been on earlier - but JR mentioned that two of the hobbits had been on that show, though he didn‘t mention any names, Does anyone know who it was? I guess maybe Dom and Billy - I hope I didn’t miss Elijah on that. I missed the BBC morning reports from the TORn party, Shireling - I was watching the other channel, which had bits and pieces, but no hobbits - only Andy Serkis and Sir Ian. - and you said there was lots of the hobbit boys on the BBC programme. Just my luck!

Moondancer, I’m so pleased you liked ‘The Bumblebee Flies Anyway.’ That is one of my favourite Elijah films - I just love it. And thank you so much for the link to the ‘Hard Talk’ interview with Sir Ian McKellen, I think he said it all perfectly:

Quote:
‘Elijah Wood’s performance I think is beautifully judged, and considering his youth, and the responsibility that he was carrying on very young shoulders is, I think.. it‘s.. not unfair, but it’s.. it’s odd that he hasn’t been picked out…’

And so say all of us!

I wonder if Elijah heard this, or knows that Sir Ian has singled him out for praise. I think of all the rave reviews for Sean Astin’s Sam, and the Oscar buzz there was for him, and how Elijah barely got a mention in some critical circles - and now here we have Sir Ian McKellen, a man who knows a thing or two about acting - and to have him say that, with no prompting from anyone, is high praise indeed! The very highest! He obviously has the eyes to see!

Originally posted by Mariole:
Oselle made this observation in her LJ: "Did you catch Spielberg chatting up Elijah---with his arm around him---as they walked off stage?" I missed that!
________________________________________

I saw Oselle’s LJ too, Mariole - but I checked my tape and I’m almost certain Elijah walked off stage before Spielberg, who exited with his arm around someone else - I think it was Sean Astin. Unless there was another shot later that I missed???

Did anyone notice a funny moment with Elijah and Dom when the cast were on stage? It was very fleeting. They were standing next to two rather tall girls - hostesses, I think, and as the girls walked off Elijah’s eyes followed them and then he looked at Dom with a sort of confused expression, to which Dom held up his hands as if to say ‘Don’t ask me?’

Mariole, I liked that Elijah/Frodo make-up clip they showed, too. Haven’t seen that before. And thanks for the tearful Sean and Elijah pic.

Random - ‘Everything Is Illumintaed’ sound very interesting. Guess we’ll have to wait and see.

Before I go I must just send belated birthday greetings to Bunnie and Peaceweaver. Sorry I missed them.

And a warm welcome to Candy Girl - glad you were so impressed with Elijah’s accent in ‘The War.’ I’m English, and his Frodo accent is perfect to my ears.

And Sheryl - thanks for the quotes from the director’s commentary on Spy Kids 3. I love to hear people say nice things about our boy.

posted by Blossom
I thought the BBC’s Oscar coverage was a bit dire. Jonathan Ross was OK - I think he genuinely likes the LOTR films, but the three people who where on with him to comment on the evening‘s events plain got on my nerves - especially Alistair McGowan. I taped it, but hadn’t taped the Film 2004 special which had been on earlier - but JR mentioned that two of the hobbits had been on that show, though he didn‘t mention any names, Does anyone know who it was? I guess maybe Dom and Billy
Yes, it was Dom and Billy. Not that I saw it but I read that somewhere.

The BBC coverage was indeed dire. I switched between the BBC and the Flemish tv but both their coverages were not very inspired.
It's the first time I saw a red carpet coverage, though. (I usually don't watch the Oscars). The only point of that show is to talk about the clothes and the jewelry of the stars? :eek:

On the Flemish tv. They had 3 critics in the studio as well as the presenter (who is also a movie director). It was OK most of the time. Two of the three critics needed to do their thing and they were all complaining that Hollywood is yet again rewarding big budget, large scale block busters instead of supporting independent movies. The presenter protested by saying that LOTR could be seen as an independent movie, but just on a larger scale and he briefly referred to the courage, the vision and the persistance it took PJ to make this trilogy.
The third reviewer said that he's actually a fan of the Fantasy genre and that it's about time Hollywood took it seriously.

The critics made no point about LOTR having no acting nominations. Our leading reviewer said that most of the acting nominations are the ones who attract more attention to them. Acting performances who practically scream at you "See me act"....you know, the big performances that draw a big part of the attention of the movie. He said that he's not implying that those performances are bad, some of them are even fantastic but he said that so many of the acting performances in the LOTR were very good and no particular actor really stood out because the acting was done in function of the main story and not the other way round.

Alistair McGowan on the BBC was really terrible. I can understand that he didn't like the trilogy (well, I don't understand but it's his right to think differently of course) but did he really have to repeat his dismay of the LOTR movies over and over and over?

posted by serena
Liev Schreiber, starring next in Paramount's upcoming remake of The Manchurian Candidate, will make his directorial debut with a feature adaptation of Jonathan Safran Foer's bestselling novel Everything Is Illuminated, for Warner Independent Pictures. Variety says the film has already garnered interest from Elijah Wood and Jason Schwartzman, though no deals are yet in place.
Er.....:o...I need to do something about my ignorance here.
I have never heard of Liev Schreiber or Jonathan Safran Foer, Jason Schwartzman,...

And a warm welcome to Candy Girl - glad you were so impressed with Elijah’s accent in ‘The War.’ I’m English, and his Frodo accent is perfect to my ears.

(Candy basks in the warmth of the welcome:) )

Oohh...I love a British accent...I'd trade my southern one for a British any day. I agree that his Brit accent was DEAD ON! I was completely fooled. You see, I must confess to being a post LOTR Elijah fan. This is not because his previous work was ever anything less than wonderful...but somehow, I managed to miss just about everything he had ever been in up to that point. So, when I saw him as Frodo in Fellowship, I was essentially seeing him for the first time. I just assumed he was some British actor.;) I didn't realize the accent was not authentic until I heard him in one of the 'behind the scenes' things...talking with his very un-British American accent...I was flabbergasted!:eek: He was so natural with it! Go, Lijah!:D

what is this pic i mdom everybody talking about, have i mist something?is it a pic wish is not in the movie?
and yes,happybirthday to you peacewewer
and i now there is someone i forgott!!!
oh happybirthday anyway!!!:cool: :cool:

wood, I wish I could help you out with the picture, but you don't have private messaging turned on. It's a photo manip/painting thing that an artist called Ghyste did of Frodo as Tolkien described him in the tower.

It is quite stunning, but leaves you undecided whether you want to rescue/comfort him, or just have him for your breakfast, if you know what I mean!

(((Blossom!))) :D :D :D

And CandyGirl! ((((CP)))) I know what you mean about the 'Kitchen.' I feel a bit like a hobbit trying to keep up with elven intellect there sometimes. But I miss the mistchief you and I used to get up to! :D ;) And I'm another who had only barely registered Elijah pre-Frodo.

Elijah and Steven Speilburg: I have come to really loathe Speilburg's films. Where he could simply tell you a story and allow you to come to feel for the characters on your own terms, he often falls back onto his powers to manipulate you into some emotion you don't yet have the history with the character for. A perfect example of this is The Color Purple;
he already had me blubbering just in the first scene where Whoopie Goldberg is running through the purple flowers.

ummm, where was I going with this? Oh yeah! I just think that Elijah is capable of such subtlety that he is tooo gooood for a Speilburg movie! :)

Grumpy! Your letter! Too funny! Honey approaches grumpy in a very gingerly fashion (((gumpy)))

Honey!

I checked my tape and it was Sean, not Elijah, that Spielberg was talking to as the cast and crew were walking off the stage. If Spielberg talked to Elijah off camera I wouldn't know about it. Maybe since Sean is interested in working behind the camera he and Spielberg got chatty. Or maybe they were reminiscing since didn't Spielberg directed Sean in the Goonies when Sean was... what 12 years old?

Grumpy!! You are so right!!
Are you *KIDDING*? Is it just coincidence that the highest ratings for theAcademy Awards occured in the year when Lord of the Rings swept 11 awards?

Watching the Oscars, the pre-coverage, and various entertainment shows covering it afterwards it seemed pretty clear to me that these guys (our guys) really are the outsiders. Which is just fine!! But it meant that the tittering press was looking here and there and grabbing all of the familiar stars--the ones they are used to chasing. And all those stars seemed to know one another. I was quite sorry not to see them doing more hobbit-seeking. Elf-seeking, whatever. I don't think the reporters I saw even knew who Dom and Billy were because they would talk to Elijah and Sean and almost elbow the other two away. (Even the New Zealand Herald mis-labeled Billy in Dom in a photo). The TV press that I saw was so awfully all round embarressing. You could almost see some of the actors cringe....but of course, they have to play along or they look like snobs. So Yeah, Grumpy--you are dead right. These people hadn't a clue -- they should have known they had a Middle-earth audience. More more more hobbits. MOre Jackson. Crazy...

Happy Belated Birthdays to Peaceweaver and to Bunnyhugs!!
And a very warm welcome to CandyGirl!!!

Blossom quoting Ian McKellen:

‘Elijah Wood’s performance I think is beautifully judged, and considering his youth, and the responsibility that he was carrying on very young shoulders is, I think.. it‘s.. not unfair, but it’s.. it’s odd that he hasn’t been picked out…’

I hope we hear a little more of this loudly and clearly. Maybe Peter will try to make it up to Elijah on the DVD. Give Frodo a little more linking footage to make the average viewer understand him a little more--and maybe he'll talk about the acting and about Frodo on the Directors commentary. It seems they have been concentrating on Frodo footage in the Oscars, and in Newline's bits. Maybe there will be a little attempt at rectifying things in the DVD. For both Frodo and for Elijah. I want to hear more talk about the acting from the rest of the cast and from Peter.

Speaking of the EE DVD for RotK--someone on the TORN forum described a bit about the TORN oscar party and told of PJ relating a story about Dom embarressing Elijah "into a fit" (I think it was on some German press thing--I don't remember, my mind blurs..)--and that they ahve both sides of this on tape and it will be on the EE DVD. Sound cute--unless it's more body function talk. Enough of that, boys!! I'd like to think Dom was embarressing Elijah with Compliments (I suppose this is not likely, one could only hope. though ).

One more RotK note. When Frodo wakes up in bed after MD, and he is all bathed in light--does anyone else wonder if this might be a reference to --the clear vessel of light, for eyes that can see? Frodo himself seems to be glowing.

someone on the TORN forum described a bit about the TORN oscar party and told of PJ relating a story about Dom embarressing Elijah "into a fit" (I think it was on some German press thing--I don't remember, my mind blurs..)--

TORN posted Ian Smith's blog where he has a transcript on what Peter Jackson said:

www.iansmith.co.uk/lotr/weblogs/Feb29th2004.htm (http://)

Very funny read. Can't wait to see it.

K.

Welcome to you, CandyGirl, and a welcome back to yowser and Random! :)

Zk, I applaud your letter. :)

I am quite disappointed in the media coverage here too. I saw the event itself on non-commercial Swedish TV, which had 3 persons commenting and discussing during the US commercial breaks. They did a few too many snarky comments about LotR (I was especially infuriated by a put-down of the costumes award; - the comment there was that Seabisquit deserved to win because making that kind of "normal, everyday" costumes was much harder to do :rolleyes: ) However in the end they did break out the champagne and smilingly toast PJ & Co, so I was happy with that. The "Red carpet coverage" had no-one LotR at all except just before the ceremony started, when EJW and PJ briefly joked about ripping off the expensive daring dress of the lady interviewing them, and running off with it.

But the TV and newspaper coverage after the ceremony has been quite abysmal. It's all about the dresses and jewels and shoes that so-and-so wore. Page upon page of women celebrities and their finery. And next to nothing about LotR, except listing its wins, and calling it "boring" and "predictable" that it won so much (and quoting Billy Crystal about people moving to NZ to get thanked. The papers *really* liked that quip, seemingly.) I'm really disappointed, because given the large fan base, one could have expected some kind of LotR jubilation and "well deserved" coverage, and some interviews with PJ or some of the other LotR winners. But no. Why do that when you can go on about Julia Roberts' dress instead.

I did see another TV station summing up the red carpet who's wearing what thingy from some American TV station, and to be fair inbetween dresses and jewels they did grab onto Ian McKellen and the 4 hobbits, and they were all asked about why there were no acting noms. All of them answered wisely, politely and diplomatically, referring to the SAG award and the large number of people in the cast, etc.

how do i get my privet messenger started?

:( :( :(