Khazad-Dum - The Faculty Lounge: An Elijah Wood Discussion

Lady Wendy

01-29-2004, 08:06 AM

OK, you Faculty Lounge denizens...
With all the talk I started recently with my Favourite Picture Challenge, I thought it was time for this...

Are you ready for this ?

With the bandwidth of this site in mind, and because it was Our Lij's 23rd Birthday this week...I've decided to cast caution totally to the wind, and creat a couple of picture Albums at Sony's Image Station site ( Yippeee...it's all FREE !!! :D :D :D )...

The first celebrates the truly lovely character of Frodo, on his journey through the films...
These are my absolute favourite images of Frodo, because they all speak volumes to me, personally, about him and the journey he had to make...and in most of them, you can see, just from the expression on his face, just exactly what is going through his face at that particular moment...ranging from happiness, through love, to fear, horror, dread, anguish, all the way to resignation, and despair...and this is entirely due to Elijah's internal method of acting, without which we would have nothing to talk endlessly about !!!

Click on the link, and hopefully, it will take you straight to the album..
(Edited to say that the password has been disengaged, for anyone who was having problems getting at all my lovely Lij goodness - Thanks Goldenberry !! )

Enjoy !!!

http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4287859451

The second album is composed from my very favourite pics of Elijah, himself, mostly from posed photo-shoots, and nearly all just head and shoulder shots...why that is, I cannot say, except that I must be responding mostly to his facial expressions...

Certainly it's very obvious from this selection, which is my favourite " look" ....clean-shaven, with slighter longer, spiked-up hair....yummmmm!!!!:k

Again, enjoy !!!...

http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4287859543

I plan to be adding to these two, as more pics come up...they have to be favourites though !!!
Please feel free to add any comments below each pic, if you think that it's also one of your favourites too !!!:D...

Goldenberry

01-29-2004, 08:59 AM

Lady Wendy, the album seems to require a password. Would you post it, or pm those of us who are desperate--I mean, interested---yes, that's it, interested. For scientific research purposes, of course. :o ;) :p

Lady Wendy

01-29-2004, 09:06 AM

Damn, I thought that might happen...just goes to show how much I know about these things...:D

The photo albums have now had the password disengaged, so you should be able to view them much easier !!!

I'll also edit my original post...thanks for letting me know !!!

As my access to the Image Station site is enabled by cookies, I have no idea if anyone else is having difficulty, unless, like Goldenberry, you let me know , so please do !!!

The albums are listed under Entertainment/Movies, if the link should lead you to some sort of index...

Goldenberry

01-29-2004, 10:26 AM

Lady Wendy, check your pm's!

Maeglian

01-29-2004, 01:26 PM

Now *I'm* getting all grumpy! And sad! The UK Empire Awards nominations are out. Look at these nominations:

Best British Actor:
Jude Law (Cold Mountain)
Andy Serkis (Return of the King)
Sir Ian Mckellen (Return of the King)
Orlando Bloom (Return of the King)
Ewan McGregor (Young Adam)

Best Actor:
Johnny Depp (Pirates)
Viggo Mortensen (Return of the King)
Hugh Jackman (X2)
Sean Astin (Return of the King)
Daniel Day-Lewis (Gangs of New York)

Anyone notice the name that is missing here, in this veritable throng of LotR guys? :(

Who actually wins the Empire awards is decided by the Magazine's readers, I think, but I don't know if the nominations also are by popular vote.

Moondancer

01-29-2004, 01:34 PM

UK Empire Awards
Maeglian, apparently (I'm not sure) Elijah Wood did win the lead actor award for FOTR and that's probably why they're not nominating him again for the ROTK.

Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind
This keeps getting very good comments.
I saw this on the oscarwatch.com forum (posted by 'Brian The Brave')
caught a test screening of this a while ago in Philly. I, personally, loved it to death, and it could be my favorite Kaufman film. Only thing holding me back is I'm pretty sure they were gonna cut it shorter and add more original music, so I don't want to be judging a movie before it's ready to be judged.

While it is fantastic, it's not gonna appeal to everyone. There were a couple Carrey fans in the audience, and they were clearly not pleased. However, they probably hated Truman show as well.

Winslet is superb, but she could be seen as a Zellweger-some people love her, others hate her. She does have an emotional core (with Carrey) that is by far the strongest Kaufman's done. As the "mind is erased", it really gets more and more heartbreaking.

Elijah Wood was delightfully pervertie, complete 180 from Frodo. Which is good for him critcally, but probably not so much for the bubblegum girlie fanbase. Don't think he'll get a nom or anything, but I wouldn't be surprised if he got a lot of fans for this.

Kirsten. Dunst. Best performance since Virgin Suicides...if you read the script, you get the basic idea at what she goes through. Fantastic, as is Wilkinson.

It's probably the weirdest but most accesible Kaufman. While BJM was completely bonkers, but Adaptation was tame (compared to BJM),this is perfectly in between. It has the humanity and emotion that Adaptation had, but the creativity and the fun that BJM had. Some people will love it, others will hate it.

Gondry's direction finally lives up to his music video promise (get those directors series dvds...they're awesome). He's very creative (tho a lot was in Kaufman's script), and very brave too. Reminded me of Jonze in BJM.

It probably wont be an Oscar film. Noms for Carrey, Winslet, Dunst are all possibilities. A screenplay win is probably gonna happen if it's received well. It would have to do well at the Globes and the SAG ensemble to do Oscar business.

It'll probably be in my, and possibly a lot of critics, top 2 or 3 of the year.

And yes, it's better then Human Nature.

Edit 1:
thanks Lady Wendy. I enjoyed your Frodo and Elijah album a lot. I have difficulty finding a favourite Frodo and Elijah picture ...so many great ones to choose from. That first one in your Elijah gallery is certainly very high on my list. I also love the latest Angelino photoshoot. Plus...(I could go on and on) I think he has a great profile so I like those kind of pictures.

Edit 2: Peter Jackson is a bit miffed about the lack of acting nominations (source: http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio1/news/entertainment/040128_oscars.shtml )
There's no pleasing some people - 'Return of the King' received 11 Oscar nominations yesterday (Tuesday), but Peter Jackson is still not happy.

He's up for Best Film and Best Director for the film but there were no nominations for the cast.

He's a bit annoyed:
"I think the performances are strong - you've got people going to 'Return of the King' and crying, being moved by the film, and that's nothing to do with me or the special effects or anything else, that's the actors."

"Maybe it's something to do with the fact that they're playing hobits or wizzards, that that sort of work can't be taken seriously."

Maeglian

01-29-2004, 01:48 PM

Thanks, Moondancer. I checked, and it's true, he *did* win back in 2002. :)

Interesting news and opinion on ESOTSM. I may have to sit through another Jim Carrey movie after all, though I've *sworn* I'll never watch another one of those !!

tgshaw

01-29-2004, 02:14 PM

Originally posted by Maeglian
Thanks, Moondancer. I checked, and it's true, he *did* win back in 2002. :)
I was just going to post that, but you beat me to it :) . (The only reason I knew this is that I've seen it every time I've edited my "Wood movies page" for the last two years :p . I'd kind of worry about myself if I didn't know it. ;) )

Interesting news and opinion on ESOTSM. I may have to sit through another Jim Carrey movie after all, though I've *sworn* I'll never watch another one of those !!
IMHO, it bodes well that the Carrey fans at the screening didn't like it! The Truman Show wasn't the best movie I've ever seen, but it had heart in a surreal sort of way, and I did end up liking the character. Add "heartbreaking" and some "BJM" strangeness (I love that movie!), and it just might be pretty good!

Which is good for him critcally, but probably not so much for the bubblegum girlie fanbase.
Personally, I see no negatives in that sentence ;) .

zkgrumpy

01-29-2004, 03:09 PM

:::: THUD ::::

Thanks, Lady Wendy, for those ::::: THUD ::::: (OW!) beautiful pics! :::: THUD :::: (ERRGH!)

Someone's sig line says that EW's soul took an astral field trip and Frodo stepped in. That's about right. In the EW pics, EW :::: THUD :::: - impish, funny, naughty, barely adult - is looking out of those blue eyes. In the Frodo pics, there's very little if any EW. Frodo Baggins - deceptively young ::::: THUD ::::: and soft-looking, suffering, patient, adult - looks out of those ::::: THUD ::::: same eyes. It's hard to believe that it's the same body.

I hope that ESOTSM puts to rest once and for all the myth that he wasn't acting when he played Frodo. ::::: THUD ::::: When he finally *does* win an Oscar for some phenomenal performance down ::::: THUD ::::: the road, we'll all be there to say "NANNY NANNY BOO BOO!" ;)

OUCH! Dag-nabbit! OK, somebody wanna help me up off the floor and give me a THUDDING pillow for next time someone posts a link to an album like that? :D ;)

~grumpy

Lady Wendy

01-29-2004, 07:55 PM

For all us Brits out there...MTV UK will be repeating their ROTK Premiere programme tomorrow morning at 9.30 am...so you'd better be a bit sharpish with the video buttons before you go to work :D !!!
I've just come in (1.30 am ) and found this info on the Empire Middle-Earth Forum for all us LOTR obsessives out there...which is why I didn't post it earlier :rolleyes:

zkgrumpy...
Oh dear, I am sorry you had a hard time falling down at the sight of my albums...although I AM glad you certainly appreciated them :D...
On Saturday, I'll have the time to actually post my thoughts under each photo for each one...I do have quite a few observations for some of them - Elijah as well as Frodo... so keep checking back...I'll also be adding to them as well, as I can't leave well alone.

Tonight, we went to see "Big Fish" ...( really good, gentle, funny movie...not necessarily the usual Tim Burton type film, but if I didn't know, I possibly might have guessed !!! )...anyway, what should be shown but the trailer for ESOTSM in all its glory :D...looks like quite a good movie for a Jim Carrey vehicle - I like the quirky premise, and I like the fact that it's a Charlie Kaufmann/Stephen Gondry film, good combination, IMO
Elijah appeared SO briefly, he was practically missed by your's truly here :D The eyes falling out looked very much like one of those joke eyes on springs, if I'm not very much mistaken... !!!

Prim

01-29-2004, 10:06 PM

For the record, Jackson has been misinterpreted. He was not "miffed" at the lack of actor Oscar noms, but disappointed because he thought the acting team was so strong. I am sure he'll be "miffed" when he reads how he is being misrepresented though. :mad:

Narya Celebrian

01-29-2004, 11:43 PM

I suspect PJ has a thick enough skin to handle the way his desire for the actors to be recognized is being portrayed in the media. After all, he handled all the uproar back in 98 and 99 about the horror-movie guy who was going to direct (and wreck) the most-loved books of all times. And I've seen that statement represented several different ways, so who knows if he'll even ever see that particular article.

But seeing how graciously PJ responded during his GG speeches to what has been both overtly and covertly negative grumblings about him and the movie, I have no fear for him.

Well, I broke down and bought Ash Wednesday today. It was only $8.66 on DVD, and I stood in front of it while my brain said What kind of a fan are you anyway?? You won't buy his movie for a measly $8.66?? So I bought it for Elijah. :D I think I can get my $8.00 worth in screencaps - because I'm pretty sure I'm never going to be able to get myself to actually WATCH the whole thing again. :rolleyes:

Moondancer

01-30-2004, 02:44 AM

Originally posted by Prim
For the record, Jackson has been misinterpreted. He was not "miffed" at the lack of actor Oscar noms, but disappointed because he thought the acting team was so strong. I am sure he'll be "miffed" when he reads how he is being misrepresented though. :mad:

Er...the word 'miffed' was my choice of words. English is only my 3rd language (Flemings do have to learn a lot of languages) so forgive me if I don't understand every little nuance of the language of Shakespeare. My understanding of the word miffed is to be annoyed (in this context) and that's the word the journalist has used (but maybe 'miffed' is a bit stronger than 'annoyed', because it implies a bit of anger as well?)

I don't know the words Peter used (if he said anything like that at all) but I think that he could be a tiny bit disappointed about the fact that some say that the acting in LOTR is not that important because it's all about the special effects.
One example is posted on theonering.net. A journalist of the Detroit Free Press, Susan Ager, writes the following:
Are we ready to give an Oscar for best picture to a film that's a mythic tale plus special effects with no acting worth noting?
link to the article (http://www.freep.com/features/living/ager29_20040129.htm)
Speaking only for myself here, I can't take this sort of article very seriously.
There are also those who say that LOTR sets a bad example because it promotes war. :rolleyes: (which is silly in my opinion, knowing what Tolkien has said about his own war experiences).
You're always going to get reactions like that and they're not really worth the bother.

In any case, I don't know if this is a true quote by PJ but I agree with this:
"I think the performances are strong - you've got people going to 'Return of the King' and crying, being moved by the film, and that's nothing to do with me or the special effects or anything else, that's the actors."
The strong and emotional reactions to the trilogy are not just because of the special effects. The relationship between Sam and Frodo is so beautiful to watch because the actors have put their heart and soul into it and this has nothing to do with any special effect.
But, of course if you can only see the special effects of the movies, most of the magic of the trilogy will be lost for you.

EDIT: Going through the various posts on the TORC message board, I saw this and I wanted to share it with you.
MEANWHILE: Beyond the accolades and awards, Boyens is aware that "Return of the King" has transcended mere popularity. "We have had some incredible letters, some involving people who were very, very sick - because it is about death, actually, and about faith and believing that there is something beyond this life," says Boyens.

She cites a letter from a father in Australia who told the moviemakers that he was not able to say goodbye to his son - a "Lord of the Rings" fan who had died in an automobile accident the year before - until he went to see "Return of the King" in his son's honor and viewed the key farewell scene at the film's end. She also cites "a girl in New Zealand who was also named Philippa. She was about 21 years old. Her relatives asked if she could see the movie before it was released since she was very ill. Peter was able to set it up for her." She died peacefully the next day.
http://u.dailynews.com/Stories/0,1413,211~23521~,00.html

BLOSSOM

01-30-2004, 04:56 AM

Hello Ladies,

Haven't been here for a while, so I spent last night catching up with you all. I'm away for a few days and when I come back I find you've had an Elijah photo-fest!:) I thought I was in Elijah's Hugs Haven for a moment. Very nice, though - thanks for all the beautiful pics. I'd have to think long and hard about my very favourite Frodo/Elijah picture - there are so many I abolutely love.

Hobmom - a huge thank you, thank you, thank you for all the recent Japan Press Conference/Golden Globes pics. Wonderful!:) Btw, I thought Our Boy looked amazing at the GG's! Love the Green Velvet Suit, but to be honest I don't care what he's wearing. I love the fact that he seems to have his own individual style - he really doesn't appear to be a slave to fashion, and I like that about him. He's just so... different, and geeky, and handsome, and altogether lovely!

I taped the Golden Globes, including the pre-show section, just so I could fast forward to all of the Elijah bits, of which there were too few. While Ricky Gervaise (Yes, 'The Office' won!) was being interviewed on the red carpet, they cut away to Elijah, who was in the process of kissing a tall, dark/short-haired girl/woman who had her back to the camera - lucky thing - well, he only kissed her on the cheek, but still.... 'sigh!' And I loved the way they kept cutting to Elijah when PJ was on stage accepting his Best Director award - obviously Elijah was very proud of Peter, and rightly so.

Moondancer - I just saw that article by Susan Ager over at TORn, too. I don't understand how people can NOT see the very human aspect of LOTR. Yes, of course there are lots of special effects - yes, it's a mythical story, but it's also full of diverse emotion - humour, fear, tragedy, sadness, grief, trust, loyalty, hope, suspicion, guilt, terror, pain, love, loss - you name it, it's in there, and non more so than in Frodo's case. Frodo goes through ALL of those emotions, and Elijah portrayed them to perfection often with just a look, or an expression - no special effects needed there! It's about as human as you can get - Oh, but I almost forgot - Frodo's not human is he? He's a hobbit, so apparently that doesn't count, and neither does the actor who played him, despite his stunning performance.:confused:

No Oscar Nom for Elijah, which is only what I expected. None for Sean either, who we had hopes for - my sympathy goes out to any Goonies who may be lurking.

Ainon - Thanks for the link to that Shelob's Lair behind-the-scenes clip. It must be SO difficult to work with all those people around you - and yet look so ALONE.

It's great that a few people are popping up to say they have heard 'The Whisper' at the GH. Maeg - HR - Pearl - ainon. However, there are still some who have listened for it and not heard it. I cannot wait for the offical DVD, to see if it's even mentioned or referred to at all. If it's not, I imagine myself and the people listed above will be ducking to avoid a few flying trouts! I have great faith though. You see, I've heard it, and so 'I love you,' will always be there for me.:)

Luthiea - You're back!!! :) :) :) It's so good to see you here again. How's life been treating you? Please stay.

And a warm welcome to Achila. Lovely posts - and pics.

Congratulations to A.D. What a great review!

And congratulation too to Narya, our new moderator. :)

Tg - I must just say that I love your Osgiliath pages on frodolivesin.us. Frodo attacking Sam - I really like your theories on Frodo's fight with The Ring there. I hadn't thought of it in that way, and it really does make sense.

Dangermouse. I'm so glad you enjoyed 'The Bumblebee Flies Anyway.' I LOVE this film, I LOVE Elijah as Barney, and I watch it a lot. I also like the kiss between Barney and Cassie. It's been much criticised, but I think it's perfect for the situation - Barney is young and obviously inexperienced, and there's a desperation to it that makes it very moving IMO. Anyway, here's a little gif of that kiss, for anyone who hasn't seen the film. It's a little jumpy, as I haven't got 'Bumblebee' on DVD, only tape. I got these caps elsewhere, and this is the best gif I can do with them:

Barney and Cassie (http://www.imagemagician.com/images/blossom/BumblebeeKiss.gif)

I also came in here to post another little batch of ROTK gifs, which means I've had to delete any previously posted, but that's life. Sorry the new ones are so small in size, but it's the only way I can get the length of the clips in and upload them to IM:

The End Of All Things (http://www.imagemagician.com/images/blossom/EndOfAllThings1-2Csm.gif)

GH Hug 1 (http://www.imagemagician.com/images/blossom/GHhug1c-3csm.gif)

GH hug 2 (http://www.imagemagician.com/images/blossom/GHhug5c-7csm.gif)

Enjoy.

Love to all.
Bye.

whiteling

01-30-2004, 05:52 AM

Originally posted by Moondancer
The strong and emotional reactions to the trilogy are not just because of the special effects. The relationship between Sam and Frodo is so beautiful to watch because the actors have put their heart and soul into it and this has nothing to do with any special effect.
But, of course if you can only see the special effects of the movies, most of the magic of the trilogy will be lost for you.

Yes, yes and yes! Couldn't agree more, Moondancer.

The KD calendar tells me that we have another birthday child today - Happy birthday, deluby! Many happy returns!

Be blessed, Blossom, for you anew poured out a splendid cornucopia of gifs :k ! I'm one of those who couldn't hear "The Whisper" but I never doubted its existence - you heard what you heard (and I won't trout anyone, never! See, I'm veggie myself ;) ).

Lady Wendy, a big thank you for your Frodo/Elijah albums. What a pleasure to look at! And we both seem to have a preference for a certain FotR Froment... I've seen your animated Avatar on the Random Picture Thread you linked to and got a strong sense of déjà vu ;) .

Hi, Luthiea! Nice to meet you :)

Rikka

01-30-2004, 06:55 AM

Originally posted by Moondancer
... "We have had some incredible letters, some involving people who were very, very sick - because it is about death, actually, and about faith and believing that there is something beyond this life," says Boyens...

Oh, Moondancer, what a beautiful and sad story you've found! :k Thank you, thank you very much. I cried when I read these real stories about ROTK's influence on people who went through hard times of their life... That's exactly what I mean saying that LOTR (the book and now the movie, too) teached me not to fear death and to keep hope in dark hours.

- - -
Happy birthday to DELUBY!

tgshaw

01-30-2004, 08:20 AM

I'll add a "me, too" to Rikka's post--IMO, stories like this show how much of the spirit of the book the movies (especially RotK, IMVHO) have been able to give the audience. I'm glad that those who made the movies are able to see some of the difference they've made in people's lives. (BTW, Rikka, is that your own lovely face and smile in your avatar :) ?)

Thanks to all those who've posted and linked to articles, pics, gifs... even though I haven't had time to look at many of them yet :( .

Top entertainment news story this morning is possibly Elijah-affecting, although his name wasn't mentioned. In what seems to have been a surprise move, Pixar has split with Disney. A risky move business-wise by Pixar. I don't think Happy Feet was ever a Disney movie (Pixar does do non-Disney stuff, too), but I hope any financial/business problems don't stop Mumbles in his tracks.

A Very Happy Birthday to deluby and Best Wishes for a Great Year!

Rikka

01-30-2004, 08:46 AM

Originally posted by tgshaw
Rikka, is that your own lovely face and smile in your avatar :) ?) [/size][/color]

hehe, thank you for a compliment, tg...:D yeah, it's me. I always use for avatars a pic of me.

BTW, dear ladies... Here in Russia we have a very bad public in movie theaters - I mean in general they are very noisy, unpolite and so on... real goblins I'd say. So the reaction of russian general public on LOTR films - especially on ROTK - oftenly is very stupid and inadequate. They laugh at sad and frightening moments, make rude and cinical comments outloud... Because of it this is a real torture and nightmare to watch ROTK here... At our Faculty there are people from over all the world so I'd like to ask you a question.

Whether there is any other country but Russia where public in theaters laugh at the scene where Shelob "kills" Frodo? And at the scene after - where Sam opens dead Frodo's face? And - when wounded Merry askes Pippin: "Are you going to burry me?" (I know that in English version he asks "Are you going to leave me?" but in russian translation we somehow have a canonic line). Imagine, in Russia general public laugh laudly at all this moments... I'm in shock and in a shame..:( :mad: I don't understand...:confused:

Achila

01-30-2004, 09:22 AM

Hi Rikka

I think what often happens with these things is that moments of high tension or emotion make people uncomfortable. So they're laughing for that reason, not so much because it's funny.

I've seen ROTK 6 times now, and the first few times (with "virgin" audiences, I'm assuming), there were stunned gasps every time Frodo was actually stung, because of the way Pete paced that scene and cut away to make you think the danger had passed. Now, admittedly, the face Lij makes at that point does look a little weird -- not that I'd know how being stung by a giant spider and foaming at the mouth is SUPPOSED to look -- LOL -- but I half expect him to say "Gee, I don't feel very well"....

I remember laughter in the theatre during T2T, during Gollum's schizo speech, and I think it probably occurred for the same reason, because it's really not funny.

BTW, speaking of Shelob, where do we think she stung him? It looks like maybe in the back, but wouldn't the mithril shirt have protected him? And in the tower of CU scene, there are two scars on him but isn't the round one from the Cave Troll's lance?

Yowser

01-30-2004, 09:58 AM

I've seen RotK 3 times now and each and everytime the audience gasp and squirm when Shelob stalked Frodo from above. Some seem to think it is now a horror movie and whispered "look up!". When she stabbed him inevitably couple people jumped. My friend really hates spiders so she is especially freaked out by that scene. As for Merry & Pippin scene, I thought that was such a beautiful moment and the theater was really quiet so I figure most would agree.

Achila is right in that moments of high tension or emotion make people uncomfortable, so they're laughing for that reason, not so much because it's funny. Sean Astin mentioned how some members of the younger male audience were uncomfortable with the tender scenes between Frodo and Sam and so would nervously laugh during those scenes.

The first time I saw RotK was Tuesday Trilogy and during the first fade-to-black scene (after Frodo comforts Sam), couple people heh-heh-giggled and I wasn't sure why. Later I asked my boyfriend, who is a huge LotR greek, why some people did that and he did the nudge-nudge-wink-wink gesture. It took me about 30 seconds to figure out what he was implying and I was all oh pul-leaze! So there you have it. People react to what is uncomfortable about themselves and laughter is an universal defense mechanism.

As for where Shelob stabbed Frodo, I thought it was near his collarbone. A sharper eyed friend noted in the tower scene Frodo had a circular wound on his left shoulder-collarbone area, and the mitheral shirt does have a low neckline.

Goldenberry

01-30-2004, 10:01 AM

Originally posted by zkgrumpy

Someone's sig line says that EW's soul took an astral field trip and Frodo stepped in. That's about right.

Grumpy, that's my sig, quoting Lily, hobbit-lass extraordinaire.:) My personal feeling is that Elijah channels Frodo's spirit; a sublime combination of actor and character--two beautiful souls communicating. :) :) :)

I e-mailed Susan Ager of the Detroit Free Press to protest and chide her inability to appreciate the superb acting in LOTR. It was a respectful, but firm letter. :mad:

There is a hilarious and spot-on piece written by Livejournal user Molly J. Ringwraith about the lack of Oscar noms for the cast. The characters in LOTR comment on this travesty of justice, using some of their best-known lines. One of them is now in my sig. :D Her LJ name is mollyringwraith. I'm not going to link to it, but it is easy to find. It's also linked at the Site That Shall Remain Nameless.;)

Happy Birthday, deluby! :k

esmeraldabrandybuck

01-30-2004, 10:10 AM

Do you mean this, Goldie? It's already been posted in the Goonies and in Merry's Mob, Bridget found it. Might as well bring it over here too. It's priceless. :)

'Rings' characters discuss Oscar snub
by Molly J. Ringwraith

Jan. 27, 2004
MINAS TIRITH (AP) The city of Minas Tirith has been abuzz today over the news that 'The Lord of the Rings: the Return of the King,' while receiving 11 nominations including Best Picture and Best Director, did not receive any nominations for acting.

"Eleven nominations?" said Pippin Took, of the Shire. "Well, that's good news."

His friend Meriadoc Brandybuck responded by swatting him over the head with the newspaper and protesting, "But the cast is a part of this movie! Aren't they?"

Their kinsman Frodo Baggins shared Brandybuck's dismay. Upon reading the list of nominations, Baggins commented with an ironic chuckle, "They've left out one of the chief characters: the cast. I want to hear more about them." Waxing solemn and soulful, he added, "The movie wouldn't have got far without the cast."

"You almost don't want to watch the awards ceremony," contributed Baggins' gardener and loyal valet, Samwise Gamgee, "because how can it be happy? How can the awards go right when so much bad has been nominated? Folks in that Academy had lots of chances of voting for these actors, only they didn't."

Legolas Greenleaf, of the Mirkwood realm, commented somewhat cryptically on the Academy's choices, "A red sun rises. Lame decisions have been made this night." When asked to clarify his opinion, he told reporters that he had not the heart, for the grief was still too near, and retired for a walk in the forest.

His companion, Gimli son of Gloin, had sharper remarks to make upon the chosen nominees. "Mystic River? What madness drew them there? You'll find more cheer in a graveyard!"

But wizard Gandalf the White urged a more optimistic approach. "Do not be too eager to deal out Oscars in judgement," he advised. "That is not for us to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the Oscars we are given."

Meanwhile, his colleague Saruman the formerly-White was in favor of retaliation against the Academy: "Too long have those peasants stood against us," Saruman said, referring to the Academy's failure to give any fantasy film the Best Picture Oscar yet. "Leave none alive! To war! There will be no dawn for film critics!"

Treebeard, of the Ents, told reporters after much deliberation and exchanging of long names, that he was in agreement with this proposed course of action. "There is no curse in Elvish, Entish, or the tongues of Men for this treachery," he declared. "My business is with Beverly Hills tonight. With heads made of cotton candy and rock."

"I do not doubt their hearts," Eomer of Rohan conceded. "Only the size of their brains." He then returned to the task of loading up forty of his men and horses with toilet paper and Maps to the Stars' Homes, for a "secret midnight mission" that he regretted he could not give details about.

At least one individual, calling himself Smeagol, claimed to be making plans to steal the Oscar statuettes. "Oscar is sooo pretty, sooo golden," said Smeagol. "We will take the statuesss once the Hollywood snobses are dead! Ye-esss, precious!" He then quickly added, groveling at the feet of reporters, "No! No! We were only joking! Smeagol wouldn't hurt a fly! Nice movie industry." He crawled away before he could be questioned further.

Still others appeared not to care about the snub. Lady Eowyn of Rohan said with a shrug, "The women of this country learned long ago that those without Oscar nominations may still get dates to awards ceremonies. I fear neither critics nor fans." Lord Boromir, a native of Minas Tirith, dismissed the concerns, claiming, "Gondor has no actors. Gondor needs no actors."

But overall the mood was one of mild disgust. As Lord Aragorn put it to reporters, "The day may come when the Academy is able to find their ass with a flashlight. But this is not that day."

Mariole

01-30-2004, 10:39 AM

Esmie, thank you for bringing that mollyringwraith LJ enty here -- thank you! :k I'm dying, DYING!!! :D :D :D

Yea, moderator Narya! You go, girl! Hey, let's hold an in-depth discussion about Tom Bombadil and how his non-appearance affected the emotional depth of the three LOTR movies. *Ah, no -- Narya's coming after me with an off-topic trout!!!*

Whew, barely dodged that. Yes, dear, you have your work cut out for you. But I will add, in all seriousness, that you are a brave woman. You bought Ash Wednesday. Even for $8.66, it was a risk that I was unwilling to take. However, as the picture leech that I am, I will bat my eyelashes at you in hopes that you will post some screencaps someplace where I might get at them. Thank you!

I am not at all caught up with this board. Real Life has been very playful -- grabbing me by the scruff of the neck and slamming me repeatedly into the wall, then snerking gleefully as I fall half unconscious to the floor. That silly Real Life! But I have come through Shelob's tunnel, and hope I can get caught up now.

LW, I would say "miffed" carries more of a connation of being upset and angry, while "annoyed" is a bit more restrained. Congrats on your third-language skills! Speaking of "miffed," I am "miffed" at Susan Ager, the Detroit Free Press columnist who said, "Are we ready to give an Oscar for best picture to a film that's a mythic tale plus special effects with no acting worth noting?" However, you have only to read a little bit of her article to realize that she is a silly person pushing her own particular agenda. It irritates me that some people will use the lack of Oscar noms to jump on the bandwagon and say, "Oh, the acting in LOTR was ... adequate, I suppose." :rolleyes: Let's not forget that the Academy didn't nominate PJ for best director even when it did nominate TTT, which was remarked upon at the time (I did remember that correctly, didn't I?) It also doesn't have any good way to acknowledge ensemble casts. While Elijah's role is the biggest, this movie is not a "star vehicle" for him. The story is simply too big to revolve around any one character (although Frodo is the best pick). I really do think some acknowledgement to somebody on the cast would have been grand. I like the one reviewer who wanted Boyd singled out for a supporting nod -- I'd certainly go with that! His song so spoke to my heart! Anyway, such silly people as this SA person above do not even deserve my ire. I shall sigh and move on. Edit: Goldie, good on you for emailing this silly person. I have no hope whatsoever that she will remotely understand you, but it is certainly appropriate for you to point out, respectfully, that she's an idiot.

Lady Wendy, I'll look forward to your commentary when it's posted. Thanks for sharing the memories! (Yes, I'm certain those are joke eyes on springs.)

Moondancer, that is a true quote that PJ says about "I think the performances are strong - you've got people going to 'Return of the King' and crying, being moved by the film, and that's nothing to do with me or the special effects or anything else, that's the actors." He said it accepting the Golden Globe for ROTK, and he beckoned his whole party on stage with him in acknowledgement. (I believe that Elijah and Dominic were the only actors present -- Faculty, did I miss someone when I viewed that teeny-tiny clip?)

Thank you for sharing those very moving stories, courtesy of Philippa Boyens. Go, Tolkien. Go, PJ and company. *sniff!*

Blossom, thank you once again for the lovely gifs! Although I'm sorry, but I don't hold out much hope for the DVD commentary as far as illuminating any scenes goes. During the GH "whisper" scene they're quite likely to be talking about pranks they pulled pushing each other off the fake dock, rather than talking about the acting. Possibly Ian McKellan might have something pertinent to say there (if they allow him to speak ;) ), but if one of the hobbits is talking, I don't think we'll get much acting-related commentary. I love the cast commentary -- it's so cute. But as others have noted, they don't spend a lot of time talking about their technique. I think our sole hope is Astin for this scene. He's talked about MD enough; perhaps he has some GH nuggets to share. :)

Rikka, so nice to see your face! I look astonishingly like Frodo in my avatar. ;) I'm sorry your audiences are annoying and distracting. I have heard some chuckles in my theatres from time to time after Frodo is stung -- I think because they hold on his face for so long. If you have a good audience, it's actually pretty effective. But a lot of people just get grossed out, and then they giggle or comment. Almost everyone jumps or yells at the sting itself -- and that stinger coming down gets an, "Oh, gross!" kind of horrified groan before it hits him. Poor li'l Frodo. Nobody wants him to get skewered. Interesting comment about how the round scar might be from the cave troll, Achila -- I forgot about that, and always assumed it was Shelob's sting, somehow getting him in the chest just above the neck of the fashionably low-cut mithril vest. ;)

Yowser, welcome! I have been fortunate enough never to encounter the nudge-nudge-wink-wink fan club during one of my screenings. Are Denver people more at-home with their sexuality? (seems hard to believe...)

mel headstrong

01-30-2004, 11:00 AM

About that Detroit Free Press article:

One strong argument against her is that two of the three movies nominated for Best Picture that had no Oscar acting nominations were nominated for Best Ensemble Cast by the Screen Actors Guild. I haven't seen Seabiscuit, so I can't comment on its acting. But it seems that, if the acting was so bad in either picture, the actors would not have nominated the casts for an award! The three movies without individual acting noms (RotK, Seabiscuit, and Master and Commander) have in common strong casts with several noteable male characters and few, if any, strong female characters. The acting awards at the Oscars are really prejudiced towards movies that have, at most, four memorable characters -- in the ideal, a love story with two best friends, one male and one female. But that doesn't fit stories about 19th century warships or 1930's horse-racing any more than it fits Tolkien. There are great stories that don't fit the love-story mold.

The presence of Seabiscuit and Master and Commander in the same situation as LotR really undercuts the argument that Tolkien (or fantasy in general) is inherently sexist... three very different stories are in the same situation.

The problem this year is that there were a lot of strong male performances, several in strong ensemble casts (I'm assuming that is true for Seabiscuit as well as for RotK, and I thought Paul Bettany was great in Master & Commander, too), and fewer great movies with strong female performances. Out of the 20 nominees for acting nominations, only four were in movies nominated for Best Picture! And none of the Best Actress nominees were in movies nominated for Best Picture... I think that tells the story quite well.

Mel

honeyelf

01-30-2004, 12:21 PM

Happy birthday, Deluby!

SJ Merury news is running an on-line poll. "Who Got Shafted?" (http://forums.prospero.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=kr-mercuryenter&msg=18.1&ctx=0)
by not getting an Oscar nod. Go vote! Then take a look at the results! There are an awful lot of would be Faculty members out there unless one of us was up all night voting! ;) Edit to add: I don't know if I posted the link to the survey or the survey results. Good luck casting your vote.:confused:

Speaking of the nudge-nudge-wink-wink crowd, Christopher Kelly of the Fort Worth Star Telegram has set men's (emotional) liberation back at least another generation in our nation's heartland with these "witty" :rolleyes: observations:

In The Return of the King -- the third and, thank heaven for small favors, concluding episode of Peter Jackson's adaptation of J.R.R. Tolkien's The Lord of the Rings trilogy -- the hobbits stare into one another's eyes with an intensity and longing that may bring to mind Burt Lancaster and Deborah Kerr in From Here to Eternity, or at least Rock Hudson and Tony Randall in Pillow Talk.

Merry (Dominic Monaghan) professes his undying love and faith to Pippin (Billy Boyd). Later, Samwise (Sean Astin) takes Frodo (Elijah Wood) into his arms and carries him to the edge of Mordor's flaming pit. The Lord of the Rings movies have always teetered on the brink of homoeroticism -- the only major female characters are a disappearing elf (Cate Blanchett) and an absent elf (Liv Tyler) -- but here Jackson's self-seriousness sends things far into the realm of unintentional camp. By the time the post-climactic hobbit-on-hobbit hugging commences (and continues, oh, for about 20 minutes), The Return of the King has transformed into its own ready-made Saturday Night Live skit: Hobbits in Love.

What an idiot! I probably shouldn't have even dignified his incoherent slobbering drivel by quoting it here. Teach a neanderthal a couple of sesquepedalian words and he can get a paying job in Fort Worth! :rolleyes: With all due apologies to Texas Faculty members! :D

I have never heard people laugh at Frodo getting stabbed by Shelob. I have consistently heard startled gasps though. In fact, though I've seen it six times now, I jump everytime! Something about the way it's timed.

I thought the Shelob wound was the round one we can see at CU. The cave troll skewered him lower and in the area of his left ribs. We can see a cut in his shirt in TTT somewhere. Can't remember which scene but I do remember the cut being there. I suppose his arms would be in the way in CU so we couldn't see any remaining bruise there.

Moondancer:

The strong and emotional reactions to the trilogy are not just because of the special effects. The relationship between Sam and Frodo is so beautiful to watch because the actors have put their heart and soul into it and this has nothing to do with any special effect.

I couldn't agree with you more about the incredible portrayals of Frodo and Sam. But I'm wondering about something. My husband says that Frodo's eyes are enhanced it the "Wheel of Fire" speech. I looked and I simply don't see it. He says they kind of glow like Gollum's. I think it is only the ambient light reflected in Elijah's eyes as he opens them really wide at the end of his lines. Anyone else seen this?

Blossom, regarding the "I love you" I have listened twice now in the theater, and I don't hear it. But I have an honest question. Why do you want/need that line to be there? To me it just seems a little out of character. Frodo and Sam don't need to say it to each other; they have proven it by risking their lives for each other's freedom. In my very humble opinion (and I'm wasting band-width typing that out because it is only my opinion) it seems a little cheesy to have it there, a little overly sentimental. If any two movie characters have ever embodied love and devotion of a non-romantic nature it is these two. We don't need to flip the card and see the Hallmark sign if you take my meaning. I say all the above with the utmost humility; I'm just very curious what those three little words add for you?

Hugs to all,

Honey! whowouldverymuchliketochuckitallanddrivedownthecoasttosantabarbarathisweekendtoseetheglowforherself

tgshaw

01-30-2004, 12:47 PM

Originally posted by Mariole
However, as the picture leech that I am, I will bat my eyelashes at you in hopes that you will post some screencaps someplace where I might get at them. Thank you!
Well, there's been one page of caps from Ash Wednesday posted here-- http://www.frodolivesin.us/id186.htm -- since shortly after the DVD came out ;) . There are two problems with finding many screencaps from this movie: Elijah only has one really good scene (two, if you count the "prologue"), and the low budget affects the picture quality (IMHO). Elijah's best scene takes place in the dark, and it's difficult to make the pics light enough to be seen without screwing up some other quality of the picture. But part of my problem with it is that I tend to like to post series of caps from shots and/or scenes. I'm sure some very nice individual caps of Elijah could be made from scenes that aren't that great :) .

...It also doesn't have any good way to acknowledge ensemble casts.
Besides being nominated for the SAG ensemble acting award, RotK has already won the same award from the National Board of Review--admittedly not one of the "biggees," but I think pretty well respected.

...He said it accepting the Golden Globe for ROTK, and he beckoned his whole party on stage with him in acknowledgement. (I believe that Elijah and Dominic were the only actors present -- Faculty, did I miss someone when I viewed that teeny-tiny clip?)
Cate was at the ceremony (because of a different movie, so she wasn't sitting with the LotR folks). I thought I caught a glimpse of her on stage with the LotR group and someone confirmed that in the Oscars thread. John R-D is also in some of the "posed" pics taken afterward, so I assume he was there. I didn't notice him on the stage, but there were so many people there that I could easily have missed him.

----On audience laughter at inappropriate times: That's something I haven't encountered through 22 theater viewings of FotR, 9 of TTT, and 7 (so far) of RotK. Rather surprising when you consider this is where corn country and cattle country merge. But after a rather slow start with FotR (which picked up as soon as word of mouth began spreading), Omaha seems to have been quite taken with these movies. Or maybe it's just that folks are more polite here ;) . Last Saturday I was at an afternoon showing that was made up mostly of kids--it was kind of fun, because they really responded to events onscreen, but even they didn't laugh at inappropriate times. There were gasps when Shelob first reappeared behind Frodo.

In TTT, people often started laughing during the Gollum/Smeagol conversation. At first it annoyed me, but after seeing it a few times I began thinking it worked exactly as PJ intended. People would start laughing and then at the word "murderer," everything would go dead silent. :cool:

-------

Edit: Regarding eye enhancement, Sharpe's Girl posted this in the "Little Things I Liked" thread:
I remember reading an interview with Andrew Lesnie where the interviewer asked him if Elijah was wearing colored lenses during the Mordor sequences, and Lesnie said (paraphrasing here!), "No, it was amazing--the dirtier he got, the bluer his eyes got on their own! I've never seen anything like it."

honeyelf

01-30-2004, 01:03 PM

Blossom, I just watched your caps of "end of all things" and Grey Havens. I'm sitting here bawling like an idiot. No, I'm bawling like a Factulty member! I love the way Frodo responds to all this has cost Sam ("...if ever I would have married anybody, it would have been her.") and turns to comfort him. And they way they both seem to take a deep breath and resign themselves to the death they anticipate, and just settle into each others arms. Lovely!

Honey!

Achila

01-30-2004, 01:19 PM

This is sort of interesting -- well, it is to me, anyway! I watched Fellowship the other night (nope, can't resist when it's on cable), and I noticed the following: when Frodo and Sam are about to walk into the Emyn Muil, Frodo turns to Sam and says, "Sam, I'm glad you're with me." When they're on Mount Doom, and the lava is flowing all around them, Frodo says "I'm glad to be with you, Samwise Gamgee...."

This is a slight variation on JRRT -- to my mind, intended to acknowledge how much Frodo values Sam's contribution to fulfilling the quest. (Of course, in the middle chapter, at the end, we have Frodo saying, "Frodo wouldn't have gotten very far without Sam."). It's totally amazing to me how much subtext there is in Fellowship and T2T that is only realized now that we know ROTK.

Yowser

01-30-2004, 01:38 PM

I read or heard or seen something to the effect that the writers talked about changing Frodo's line from the book in the Mount Doom scene to make him appear more selfless and focus the concern onto Sam. So I think Frodo's line at Emyn Muil may have come from the original book line in Mt. Doom. But I have not read the books so don't throttle me if I am wrong.

I too love the parallel lines from the two movies. Abit OT, in TTT EE Boromir is shown to deeply care about Faramir and it made all the more sense in Fellowship why he was the one to look after the Hobbits: teaching Merry & Pippin to swordfight, "give them a moment for pity sake!" and was the champion in the catch-the-ringbearer game. People have talked about how often Frodo falls, until recently I had not realized how often in FotR Frodo was being picked up and carried.

Hobmom

01-30-2004, 01:43 PM

Wow! Everyone sure had a lot to say since yesterday! I'll have to catch up later.

Just wanted to drop in and tell you all about this little place at LJ that I set up for older fans like us only. I hope some of you good ladies will drop in and leave a message or two or more. Definitely PG so the link should be OK.

Letters to Elijah (http://www.livejournal.com/community/elijahsletters/285.html)

Dangermouse

01-30-2004, 02:03 PM

Ooooooh: all these lovely thoughtful posts since I visited last!

I too noticed the parallels in LOTR trilogy. I love the change to "I am glad to be here with you, Samwise Gamgee." It's much more selfless. I love how as soon as the Ring is gone, Frodo reverts to his wonderful self and his thoughts are for comforting Sam, acknowledging Sam.

The way Elijah says: "It's gone, it's done!" Amazing: somehow it conveys such relief and such joy and such peace as I could never have imagined. And when he says he can see the Shire: it's major sob time!

The fact that he is able to convey so much with relatively little dialogue is unbelievable. He doesn't have any ringing long speeches or dialogues, because for most of ROTK he is so exhausted and tortured he is beyond that (though I get shivers from his Wheel of Fire speech. It's one of my very favorite parts of LOTR-the-book, but Elijah's delivery was beyond anything I'd ever imagined). And those incredible eyes: you can see all of Frodo's brave, selfless, beautiful soul in his eyes. I agree that EW is so different in pictures/clips as himself and when he is Frodo. "Frodo stepped in" quote is so spot on!

I watched the brief clip at the NL cite (end of all things) and bawled like a baby.

Achila

01-30-2004, 03:32 PM

Especially when you look at those pictures from the Sammath Naur, you're struck by the idea that he really could've been a silent film actor. I'm also thinking of that long stretch in Fellowship, between "NOOO!" in Moria, and "What will I see?" in Galadriel's Glade, where he doesn't say another word. That must be close to 10 minutes, and it took me several viewings before I even realized it because his face is so expressive. Now THAT's acting *you Academy jerks* (oops, did I say that out loud???)

tgshaw

01-30-2004, 05:52 PM

Originally posted by Achila
Especially when you look at those pictures from the Sammath Naur, you're struck by the idea that he really could've been a silent film actor. I'm also thinking of that long stretch in Fellowship, between "NOOO!" in Moria, and "What will I see?" in Galadriel's Glade, where he doesn't say another word. That must be close to 10 minutes, and it took me several viewings before I even realized it because his face is so expressive. Now THAT's acting *you Academy jerks* (oops, did I say that out loud???)
I timed that stretch in FotR, and it was approximately 11 minutes in the theatrical version and 13 in the extended. IIRC, it was a bit over each of those numbers, but I'm not sure. After FotR was released, some "movie people" said the two biggest risks PJ took in that movie were that silence from Frodo and the time spent mourning for Gandalf--that most directors wouldn't have let the story "stop" for the amount of time the Fellowship is shown outside Moria.

Regarding silent movie actors--So many of them weren't the least bit subtle! They overacted, and the dialogue was shown on-screen so it wasn't really "silent" in that way. There were certainly exceptions--IMHO, Charlie Chaplin was very good at getting across subtle nuances of emotion.

But, yes, that's what makes Elijah so good at playing characters who are more internal--even emotionally "repressed." Barney Snow in Bumblebee is probably the best example of that. Mikey Carver, living off in his own mental world, is an absolutely amazing character. The first time I noticed Elijah's gift for this was in Huck Finn, which might sound strange because Huck sometimes brings to mind a boy who's just a mischievous rascal. But the character in the book is really a very thoughtful adolescent whose interior life actually holds the book together (IMHO), and I saw some of those thoughts on Elijah's face, even though he was playing a Huck who was much younger than the original.

So that's why I was so glad when Elijah was cast as Frodo (which I try to mention as often as possible ;) ). Frodo's a very internally-directed character. We're privvy to his thoughts in much of the book, but that doesn't work so well in a movie. From the very start, I've never been able to even imagine anyone else playing him.

Achila

01-30-2004, 05:59 PM

I sometimes wonder if that subtle, internal acting would translate well to the stage, and that maybe it's a good thing he's never explored that medium. Especially if learning to "stage act" would harm what he already does SO well. But I have enough faith in his ability to do both -- Saturday Night Live was a good indication of what he can do in front of an audience.

BTW, Trudy, I finally "re-found" your website -- the link that Celeste provides on frodoandsam.net doesn't go to the right place -- and I love all the cool "new" things you've got on there now. Great job!

Best,
Ann (Schnitz)

zkgrumpy

01-30-2004, 06:02 PM

Originally posted by Achila
Especially when you look at those pictures from the Sammath Naur, you're struck by the idea that he really could've been a silent film actor. I'm also thinking of that long stretch in Fellowship, between "NOOO!" in Moria, and "What will I see?" in Galadriel's Glade, where he doesn't say another word. That must be close to 10 minutes, and it took me several viewings before I even realized it because his face is so expressive. Now THAT's acting *you Academy jerks* (oops, did I say that out loud???)

I know what you mean! I noticed it first in Rivendell, in the scene with Bilbo. He has one line: "It's so light!" From then on, it's all eyes and expressions. Someone (sorry - can't remember who - of all the things I've lost it's my mind I miss the most) had a picture analysis of that scene. I think it's one of the most perfect sequences of one actor reacting to another's performance that I've ever seen.

It always tickles me to see the remnants of the silent era in movies. One example was an expression that Faramir had when he looked side-to-side - can't remember exactly when - beginning of Ithilien scene.

I've been hesitant to mention it - The Lad has been accused of being "too pretty" way too often, but his acting (and the way PJ filmed him) reminds me of some of the silent movie greats. They usually had very classically beautiful profiles (John Barrymore) or huge, luminous eyes (Lillian Gish), and directors depended on their ability to speak volumes without words. The way he used his eyes in LotR reminded me so much of Lillian Gish - she had the same huge blue eyes that showed you her character's soul.

I'm fascinated by the mix of acting styles required by the movie. It's almost like PJ had to pull performances from every era of film-making from silents to the most modern. The Lad's performance falls heavily into the silent category. I agree that he could have been a silent movie star.

If you've ever watched any of the great silent movies (The Big Parade, The Wind, Broken Blossoms - of course you have to get pass the hideous racial stuff in some of them), you'll see what I mean. There's a scene in Broken Blossoms where Gish's character is hiding in a closet while her father breaks down the door and murders her. Think "Weathertop" and Frodo's expressions and scream. Weathertop is another scene where between Sam's "Back, you devils!" and Frodo's "Oh Sam!", it could be a scene out of a silent movie. In fact, those two lines were almost superfulous (Dang I used to be able to spell) and the whole thing - Aragorn waving torches around and all - could have easily been from a silent movie.

I wonder if it was intentional?

~grumpy (Nice thought on the "Letters" site but I really think he'd giggle himself silly :) ) (dad-burned whippersnapper) (Why, in *MY* day we didn't have Live Journals and Blogs.) (We had to climb a hill and throw rocks to get any Internet access at all!) (Uphill! Both ways!) ( And we didn't complain, either!) :p ;)

tgshaw

01-30-2004, 06:32 PM

Originally posted by zkgrumpy
I know what you mean! I noticed it first in Rivendell, in the scene with Bilbo. He has one line: "It's so light!" From then on, it's all eyes and expressions. Someone (sorry - can't remember who - of all the things I've lost it's my mind I miss the most) had a picture analysis of that scene. I think it's one of the most perfect sequences of one actor reacting to another's performance that I've ever seen.
Might this be the analysis you're thinking of? If not, let me know when you find it, 'cause I'd love to see someone else's "take":
Two Ring-bearers (http://www.frodolivesin.us/id174.htm)

One of the advantages of the new site is being able to put back up all the pages I'd had to take down on the old one because there wasn't enough room. That one was down for quite awhile.

Achila (oh, now I know who you are :) )--glad you found your way here, and to the new site. I've been very remiss--should have put up a re-direct page at the old site for awhile and then taken it down--after that one, I tried another freebie site where it never published correctly, and won't even let me in to edit it (I tried to put up a redirect there) so it's just kind of sitting dead in the water. :rolleyes: But now that I pay an entire $4/month :p for webhosting, I'm having a fine time with it.

-----------

Back to the scene in Bilbo's room: Do we dare start listing scenes with amazing expressions?? Would we ever stop?? There are a couple more at Rivendell that come to mind immediately. One is while Frodo's looking at Bilbo's book. He goes through some expressions there that I think fall into the category of being so complex a combination of emotions that you can't even label them.

One of my early attempts at screencapping was from the Council--during the time Frodo's staring at the Ring while everyone else is fighting. My purpose was to get one "representative" frame of Frodo from that episode, but I gave up on that because his face was different in every frame. (Maybe that's when I started gravitating toward doing "series" of screencaps instead of individual ones.)

(Why, in *MY* day we didn't have Live Journals and Blogs.) (We had to climb a hill and throw rocks to get any Internet access at all!) (Uphill! Both ways!) ( And we didn't complain, either!) :p ;)
:D ROTFLMAO (good thing the boss has left for the day ;) ) :D

Achila

01-30-2004, 06:43 PM

It's hard to believe, in light of our discussions about his many varied facial expressions, that there were still stupid reviewers who had the nerve to say he had the same one or two expressions throughout the entire movie -- as if! Yes, a lot of the time, he *was* looking frightened, but it's not even the same KIND of frightened every time. Sheesh!

But speaking of expressions, doesn't that sad, tormented look suit him...woof!

Sharpe's Girl

01-30-2004, 06:50 PM

Thanks to the posts here, I've got to see this movie again!! I just looked to see when it's playing at my local theater--8:15 sounds about right (it's 6:50 now)! This will make number 8 for me...

Originally posted by Dangermouse
The way Elijah says: "It's gone, it's done!" Amazing: somehow it conveys such relief and such joy and such peace as I could never have imagined. And when he says he can see the Shire: it's major sob time!

I've been thinking that the first half, "It's gone!" was delivered with more of a sense of loss, mixed with relief. "It's done!" is strictly relief. Amazing how he manages to distinguish his emotions between the two just in the delivery.

The fact that he is able to convey so much with relatively little dialogue is unbelievable. He doesn't have any ringing long speeches or dialogues, because for most of ROTK he is so exhausted and tortured he is beyond that (though I get shivers from his Wheel of Fire speech. It's one of my very favorite parts of LOTR-the-book, but Elijah's delivery was beyond anything I'd ever imagined). And those incredible eyes: you can see all of Frodo's brave, selfless, beautiful soul in his eyes.

AMEN!! My sister, who enjoys films but doesn't deconstruct them like I do, has had the same general reaction to Elijah's performance in all three films: "All he does is cry, mope, and stare with those googly eyes!" I've just taken to gritting my teeth and saying nothing, because (a) she's trying to yank my chain, as usual, and (b) she'll either get him or she won't--without me pointing out every nuance of his performance, she's not going to see it. Oh, well--her loss!

(She was funny after her first viewing of RotK, which she waited to see until I could take her after Xmas. She's a late convert to JRRT--she got sucked into it by TTT and seeing Viggo on the WB special last year--has only listened to the unabridged books on tape once, and has not heard the appendices. So, after RotK, she was upset because she thought that PJ was messing with the storyline. She was positive that JRRT had Frodo going over Sea after 15 years or so. I thought she was confusing the 17 years in FotR with the end of RotK, and told her so. She, of course, was convinced she was right, but when I quoted the dates from the chronology from memory, she just looked at me, miffed, shook her head, and said, "You're such a dork." She says that when I'm right and she's wrong--I always want to follow up that remark with "Nyah nyah na nyah nyah!" but restrain myself. We are both pushing 40, after all!)

ElanorSam

01-30-2004, 07:37 PM

Originally posted by mel headstrong
About that Detroit Free Press article:

One strong argument against her is that two of the three movies nominated for Best Picture that had no Oscar acting nominations were nominated for Best Ensemble Cast by the Screen Actors Guild. I haven't seen Seabiscuit, so I can't comment on its acting. But it seems that, if the acting was so bad in either picture, the actors would not have nominated the casts for an award!

Mel

Oh, good point! I'm working on my response to her and will use this argument in it. Thanks!

Originally posted by tgshaw

Cate was at the ceremony (because of a different movie, so she wasn't sitting with the LotR folks). I thought I caught a glimpse of her on stage with the LotR group and someone confirmed that in the Oscars thread. John R-D is also in some of the "posed" pics taken afterward, so I assume he was there. I didn't notice him on the stage, but there were so many people there that I could easily have missed him.

Cate was onstage, as was JRD. I saw Sean Bean in posed pics afterwards, but didn't notice him onstage (He might well have been there; I just didn't notice him.)

Achila

01-30-2004, 07:48 PM

Apparently, Viggo was there too -- there was a picture of him on E!'s website. And Dom took the opportunity to tell Ted Casablanca that he loved Lij and wanted to marry him...great.....

ainon

01-30-2004, 09:17 PM

Happy Birthday, deluby!

:k Hope it was filled with lots of joy and extra RotK viewings. ;)

Welcome, Yowser and Sharpe's Girl! :)

Originally posted by tgshaw - quoting Sharpe's Girl

I remember reading an interview with Andrew Lesnie where the interviewer asked him if Elijah was wearing colored lenses during the Mordor sequences, and Lesnie said (paraphrasing here!), "No, it was amazing--the dirtier he got, the bluer his eyes got on their own! I've never seen anything like it."

Andrew Lesnie talks about it in the American Cinematographer:

http://www.theasc.com/magazine/

Frodo's increasingly wretched appearance underscores his mental and physical struggle with the ring's malevolent power. "As Frodo gets filthier and filthier, his skin starts to look like that of a coal miner," says Lesnie. "I found that Elijah's eyes, which are very bright anyway, really started to glow. By the time he's standing over the Crack of Doom, claiming the ring as his own, he's glaring at Sam through the tops of his eyes, and with all the light coming up from below, he looks like he's bordering on insanity."

on the use of image-sharpening tools :

" ... we've found that putting a selective power window just around the characters' eyes and sharpening them helps keep the audience's attention on the actors' performances. We're applying it only to the eyes, because sharpening tends to bring up the grain, which is more noticeable in the flatter areas, such as the cheeks. The performance is always in the eyes."

See how important lighting is to a performance, you silly Oscar twits who snubbed Andrew Lesnie? :mad: Oh but wait. You snubbed all the performers too so I guess it's par for course. :rolleyes:

It'll at least be interesting to find out when and if there are scenes that featured Frodo with the 'dulled contact lenses' - as described by Harry Knowles and mentioned by Elijah himself a couple of times. I can't tell just from watching the movie, although, yes, I have tried! All in the name of research, mind! :D

Originally posted by Sharpe's Girl
I've been thinking that the first half, "It's gone!" was delivered with more of a sense of loss, mixed with relief. "It's done!" is strictly relief. Amazing how he manages to distinguish his emotions between the two just in the delivery.

Oh yes! And I think the main reason the post-Quest scenes are as beautifully heartachy as they are is the way says, "We're home!" as the hobbits arrive back in the Shire. He really is happy again to be home, probably filled with optimism and enthusiasm and sheer joy and looking forward to life at home and hearth again. But when we hear him again after a series of scenes without dialogue, right away we know where he is emotionally, that all the hopes of comfort and peace at home hadn't been met. All the emotional highs and lows - presented only by voice work.

Sharpe's Girl - LOL 'bout your sister even as I empathise with the frustration. But what can you do? :rolleyes: :p Say, your nickname wouldn't happen to have anything to do with Mr. Sean Bean, by any chance? ;)

--------------

Laughing audiences (((Rikka))) -- I think we talked about this back when FotR came out too: how people laughed after Frodo was skewered by the troll. :rolleyes: I've been cringing in distressed anticipation of audience laughter too when RotK Frodo foams at the mouth; hasn't happened so far, thank goodness.

OTOH, Peter Jackson talked about the TTT Gollum-Smeagol scene in the commentary and the impression I got was that it was their intent for the audience the laugh initially and then sober up plenty quick at "Murderer". In retrospect, I gotta say that was smart: the audience is practically stunned into realising for themselves that this silly starved creature is not a Jar Jar Binks, but a very complicated and dangerous individual.

---------------

Ezzie - thanks for mollyringwraith's report! ROTFLMAO!!!!

Thank you Lady Wendy for the galleries of pics - I haven't looked at them yet but will do soon as I send this. Likewise, Thank You Blossom for more gifs! :k The end of all things! The hug!!!

Just a little thing - I heard a whispery something on the VCD copy that I have that would match with a drawn out "I love you" sigh (although to my ears the whisperiness matched the tone of Sam's sigh a moment after they break the hug, so I'd be more inclined to assume that was Sam's "I love you", if there) but I've never heard "I love you" in the cinema. I'm happy for all those who have heard it and love it ... but I'm in agreement with Honey, actually, and am happiest with just Frodo and Sam embracing and saying farewell to each other without any need for words. :)

Have a good weekend everyone! Long holiday weekend for me here. There's a lovely big Eid celebration tomorrow, so to all who're celebrating: Happy Eid il Adha! :) :)

Achila

01-30-2004, 09:31 PM

Re: the dulled eyes/white contacts: I was under the impression that this was supposed to be a part of Frodo's look in Shelob's lair after she stung him, along with foaming at the mouth. It was mentioned in one of the many articles about ROTK that showed up recently. So I was sort of surprised not to see that.

Mariole

01-30-2004, 11:56 PM

Mel, loved your observation about individual acting noms among RotK, Seabiscuit, and Master and Commander. Brilliant, and very comforting. Thank you so much! :k

Tg, I have viewed your AW cappage -- thanks for posting it! I just didn't see any Froshadows in it (hangs head in shame). :(

Tg and ainon, thank you for finding those Andrew Lesnie quotes! I have not been able to find any (what I think would be) dull contact eye shots after my *cough*8th viewing*cough. As for your husband, Honey, to me Frodo's eyes in the "Wheel of Fire" speech are just as brilliant as (in one of my personal favorite shots) back just before Frodo sends Sam away, and Sam says, "That thing around your neck," and Frodo opens his eyes in reaction and the light hits them and they just glow. So beautiful, so uncommon. Then there's the tight-in shot of just his eyes (flitting between that and Sam's mouth) where his eyes are an extreme blue, but of a very dark shade. (This provoked a whisper of, "Those eyes!" from the newbie viewer behind me this evening, who was apparently dragged there by her boyfriend. Based on her occasional whispers, she liked it!)

Elijah's eyes are also brilliant blue when he's all dirty just before the eye of Sauron sweeps over him and Sam on the ridge and they tumble for cover (the orange back-lighting scene). I mean, these are really amazingly blue eyes. *happy sigh*and not feeling one bit guilty about it, either! :)

Narya Celebrian

01-31-2004, 12:04 AM

ElanorSam, I edited your double post above to combine the two posts. If you want to quote and respond to two people in one post, you can use the 'quote' button on the bottom of their post for the first person. Then copy the part you want to quote from the second person's post, and insert it into your post using the [ QUOTE]insert quote here [ /QUOTE] tags.

Mariole, I will try to get some screencaps of Ash Wednesday this weekend. There are a couple of scenes I'm particularly interested in, and once I have them I'll post them in case anyone else is interested in them. Unfortunately, I do not have ainon's long weekend, but a very short one - I have to make it into work for about six hours, and I'm dying to get another viewing of RotK in while it's still playing in the good theatres. But somehow I'll find the time. :)

Prim

01-31-2004, 04:32 AM

Moondancer: I am cross with the article you quoted NOT you. :) Please be certain of that. It seemed to me to be very much part of the campaign to undermine RoTK for the Oscars. I find all this politcking very very exasperating.

Narya: I don't think Jackson is as thick skinned as you do. But he certainly can act and hold his peace.

Faculty: I'm loving you and leaving. I'm too old and cranky to swoon for EW.

I do wonder if its time for the Hugs thread and this to merge. It seems like they are blending and a lot of thudding is happening. It might well pay to merge and save a little of the doubling up of pics? What about an intelligent discussion/analysis filled swoon thread???? Its worth thinking about.
Best wishes for the future... :)

deluby

01-31-2004, 05:46 AM

A quick post from me again: :o
Thanks for all the birthday wishes, I had a great time today. :)

And I think a hobbitlass is supposed to give out presents on her birthday, eh?

I hope this will do. :k
http://img1.photobucket.com/albums/v40/deluby/FYC1.jpg

(from today's FYC ad in Variety and HR, I left out the opposite page which only has the words of NL congratulating on ROTK's 11 noms.)
:k to the Faculty.

Gotta run, have to get up to see ROTK again tomorrow morning. :)

Rikka

01-31-2004, 05:50 AM

Originally posted by Prim
It seemed to me to be very much part of the campaign to undermine RoTK for the Oscars. I find all this politcking very very exasperating.

Prim,
well... yes, these interviewis a part of Oscar campaign. I agree.... But I'm also sure these stories are true, I can believe in them because I know how LOTK can support in the days of despare. I went through it myself (with the book) and now I feel that the movie has the same power... So I'm really glad that Philippa shared this stories with us, with all other people.

- - -
Now it was my turn to make a heroic act - I bought Ash Wednesday (for $5) and watched it the same day. After reading Faculty discussion about AW I waited for something absolutelly rubbish. Well, it wasn't so bad. While I was a bit tired of this non-stop f***, I got some pleasure of the camera work... all these small Irish pubs, empty snowy streets... slow rythm.... This movie strangely has some poetry in it.

But the script is really stupid, unbelievable and full of big holes. If to speak about acting, only Burns himself has some "meat" for doing something. Wood doesn't have anything in his part to work with. Also IMO he is a miscasting for this role - how could this sweet college boy be a part of this durty, rude, criminal neighbourhood? Don't believe in it... By the way he's most natural moment is when he meets his uncle - he just stops all this f**ing a la his Big Brother and acts as a normal person from a normal world.

I liked only 3 of EW's moments - conversation with his brother in the car (about their past and parents), his meeting with a wife and child (but, oh Eru, how could this woman of 30-somethig be a wife of this almost teenage kid??? total miscasting). And - pre-story with the murder in the pub - there is a good facial and body acting by EW. I liked how Sean was listening to the conversation of those gangsters about killing his brother...

- - -
P.S. Deluby, thank you for this wonderful pic... :k I almost cry looking at it.

Narya Celebrian

01-31-2004, 08:04 AM

Originally posted by Prim
I do wonder if its time for the Hugs thread and this to merge. It seems like they are blending and a lot of thudding is happening.

Prim, there's no need for you to leave, and there's no need to merge the threads. The plethora of pics recently were a special event for Elijah's birthday, and the usual scholarly conversation has resumed since then. I think everyone here knows that consistent Elijah swooning should go to the Hug's Haven, and that the Faculty is primarily for more in-depth discussion. Some lee-way in the absolute disctinction between the two was allowed on Elijah's birthday, since most people felt the pic posting was a decent way to celebrate it - and I trusted, rightly, that the conversation would return to EW's acting afterwards. We will keep both threads, so those who want to maintain the scholarly discussion can stay here and those inclined to the occasional swoon have the Hugs Haven to share their thoughts.

tgshaw

01-31-2004, 08:24 AM

Mariole--I didn't realize you were specifically looking for (Forgive me if I don't go back and find the word right now :o --I promise I will later) Frobacks/Frotypes from AW. Yes, those are pretty few. There's one where Sean's wearing his hood as the brothers are escaping from the pub across the street from the old girlfriend's house that could go with a pic of Frodo from the EE wearing his hood--but the AW shot is in the dark, so was very hard to make into a decent pic. I do have other caps besides the ones I have on the webpage--I'll look through them and see if there are any others that I capped for Frodo matches.

Rikka--Ditto all you said about AW (except that I didn't care too much for the scene in the car, just because the conversation involves so many of the plot holes that I get distracted by them). And I did like the scene with the uncle. The cinematography and atmosphere are quite interesting at times. The plot, OTOH, is so full of holes that I've found to enjoy the movie at all I just kind of have to stop looking for a logical story :rolleyes: .

------------

Edit--Narya and I simulposted. Since we said don't say exactly the same thing, thought I'd leave my comments here, anyway:

Prim--Hope you're still reading the thread for replies--As another too-old-for-this Faculty member, I've been trying to keep on track through what I really think was a temporary situation this past week: Elijah's birthday coupled with a fair number of new folks learning their way around the boards. Now that EJW's settled well into being 23, and the new posters have found their way to the Hugs thread (I'm assuming, since I don't visit there very often...) for the non-acting Lij pics and swoony stuff, I'm hoping things will get back to normal.

Hint, hint, to any new folks who still need to find the Hugs thread--many, many people "hang out" in both the Hugs Haven and the Faculty Lounge, because the two places have different slants. A major purpose of this thread has been to have a spot where people can talk about Elijah's career and acting without having to watch people falling to the floor, or listen to a lot of squeeing, or... well, you get the idea ;) . Not that there's anything wrong with people falling to the floor or squeeing or whatever... but, well, okay... 'nuff said? (((new folks))) (((Prim))) (((all us old folks)))

Achila

01-31-2004, 08:58 AM

Sorry for getting carried away with the squee-age -- it's so darned easy! But entirely in honor of the Lad's birthday. Now back to your regular programming (Oh Prim, don't leave!)!

In Ed's commentary on the AW DVD, he said that they'd never met before EW saw the script and liked it. The two of them hit it off and I got the feeling that Ed became enamored with him, and perhaps the "idea of him", so to speak. Didn't Lij say that the filming occurred over 8 days or something like that? And of course, Ed works with ridiculously small budgets so there isn't much leeway to go back and redo things.

AW was filmed not long after Lij came back from "Middle Earth" the first time, so he still had the Brit/American amalgam accent he picked up down there (and still has remnants of). That's part of what makes it seem so odd that a guy who sounds so "cultured" would be a part of a family from Hell's Kitchen (especially since Ed sounds like he does belong there). We know that he was hidden in Texas for a while, but he surely wouldn't have dropped a New Yawk accent in a few years and replaced it for one that sounds like it came from Oxford.

Yep -- Lij was miscast. But it was a cool opportunity for him to do something very different, even if it didn't work this time.

tgshaw

01-31-2004, 09:17 AM

Originally posted by Achila
...Didn't Lij say that the filming occurred over 8 days or something like that?

...AW was filmed not long after Lij came back from "Middle Earth" the first time...
AW seems to have been Elijah's "rebound" film--first thing he did after the major shooting of LotR, and still recovering from the slump/fatigue/depression that had kept him home playing video games for a few months. He's said that for that reason he was glad to find something with a short filming schedule--and his part took only some of the shooting time. I don't remember the exact numbers, but, yes, filming the entire movie took a matter of weeks, and his part took a matter of days. I've wondered if his lower-than-usual energy and emotional state at the time affected his acting, although he does pull off several good scenes (including one great one, IMHO, in the van).

---------------

Since mine is still the last post, I'll just edit this in. I've got the few offerings I have from AW up at the crebain site (even though they aren't crebain--main site is part January and part February, so I don't want to publish it at the moment). But the site does allow copying and direct linking. These are ones from my current stash; I haven't gone back to the DVD. Here's the page:Miscellaneous Ash Wednesday (http://home.earthlink.net/~screencaps/id27.html). The first pic is the one of "hooded Sean"--the best I could get it. The others are chronological from the movie, but only from Elijah's first and last scenes--I don't think I ever capped any others.

erendis

01-31-2004, 11:00 AM

Those two columnists were clearly gunning for RotK. One of them said the equivalent to "It it's not Oscar nominated, then it must be bad." Hope she's not a fan of Nicole Kidman or Tom Cruise. :rolleyes: I'll take the word of the Screen Actor's Guild, thank you very much. :p

Christopher Kelly is apparently a relative of the Witch King. Did he really think Miranda Otta was a man? Or Sarah McCloud(?) (Rosie), who had almost as much screen time as Blanchett? He is worth writing letters to, if only on that point. We can't stop him from feeding his ego with all the nasty "ha ha they're gay but *I'm not* so 'go me' " jokes, but it is extremely unprofessional to purposely "forget" about a major character actress just to manipulate his point.

I haven't seen Ash Wednesday, but I don't believe the depression would have affected Elijah's acting. The best treatment for depression is love. If Elijah loves working with a director and the actual act of acting, that depression would have disappeared -- if only temporarily -- as soon as the camera turned on and sombody said "Action," kicking in Elijah's love. Whatever made it on film was probably more a product of the script and direction than Elijah's depression. (At least that would have been my reaction. :o Elijah's milage, of course, varies.)

EDIT: sorry, I have to ask something. I'm sure that Deluby's FYC ad is recent (the Harem has been informed and is currently swooning), but that's a shot from FotR! It's a boat shot, and you can see Frodo's tweedy coat. :confused:

Hobmom

01-31-2004, 01:12 PM

Awww, Prim! Don't go away! We'll miss you!

For our newer members we do have the two Elijah threads.

The Faculty, which you know of, is primarily non-swoony. Well not TOO swoony.

Elijah's Hugs is as swoony as you want to be.

That's the main difference between them so pictures of the swoony sort generally end up down there.

OK? Everybody has to go through this where does thisor that go adjustment at first. Don't ask about all the trouble igot into when I was first here!

And I just wanted to say what a great job Bridget and our newer mod Narya are doing. You keep things so nice an peaceful whilst modding in a kindly manner. Not an easy thing to do with so many ladies about the place!

And just a reminder...Please visit this pretty place for sending our kindly messages to Elijah.....

Letters to Elijah (http://www.livejournal.com/community/elijahsletters/285.html)

Several of us have already left nice 'letters' there for him. Then we can also talk amongst ourselves there as well.

Elwen

01-31-2004, 03:26 PM

<delurk>

Well, I am reading a lot of this with interst... :) I just don't have much to say. :)

But I saw that here as over in CoE and elsewhere people are discussing the matter of Elijah and contact lenses. Well, I got into a disagreement with someone over at CoE and decided to do my own research. Can you imagine the agony of staring into EW's eyes for as long as he is on screen. very hard work. I was so exhausted in the end I forgot my bag in the theatre!

Anyway - most of what I have to say on the issue is in the 'little things' thread here in the RotK forum, but I'll leave some of it heere for your benefit...

just adding to what has already been quoted from Andrew Lesnie.

They are doing pretty freakish things with eye lights in RotK, at least in the really dark scenes that Elijah and Sean have. The lights in their eyes get really huge which makes them looks really freaky and desperate! But at the same time you'd see absolutely clearly if someone wore contact lenses. And I am pretty sure that Elijah doesn't in the close-ups.

Erendis has since mentioned somewhere that he usually does wear contacts(in RL) and you can actually see them in some shots from further away (one of the Sammath Naur stills we have, at least, as Erendis also pointed out over at the CoE).

Concerning what Harry Knowles reported: He probably didn't know what scene he was looking at!

He was there in the last few days of shooting and I believe that he saw Elijah made up for the second take of the scenes where Arwen blesses himn at the ford of Bruinen. We know that this scene was done very late, and Liv was there at this point because this is when the coronation was shot. So it would make sense.

And Harry describes pretty drastic contact lenses, the sort that is heavily painted and covers the whole eye. Which is what Elijah wore in the ford scene. I remember the days before the first film came out. Insiders could place pictures roughly befpre Lorien and after, because of the cloaks, but Harry might not have been that perceptive.

How's that for 'research'?

Hard work, I am telling ya! ;)

Elwen

<lurk>

erendis

01-31-2004, 04:16 PM

This is the shot where I THOUGHT I saw a contact lens:

http://upload.houseboat-racing.biz/files/frodo1.jpg

There appears to be a very faint line on the lower portion of Frodo's left Eye. If it's a contact, then it breaks the light-reflection. But I don't see anything in the other Eye. Bah, I'm not going to worry. But whatever it was, I'm sure that Harry wasn't talking about this shot. Didn't Elijah say to Harry on set "I can't see you very well because I have contacts in" ? These look like contacts that Elijah can see through.

The freakiest Eye glow is Frodo saying "I can see him with my waking Eyes." That must be 100% Elijah since I don't know how they could focus a light on his Eyes without the light spilling over onto his face. (i'm sure there's some technical term for it.)

Achila

01-31-2004, 04:19 PM

Thanks, Elwen, for your sacrifice to our cause...you poor dear (LOL)! Yes, Elwood does wear contacts in RL -- you can hear him talk about that in the cast commentary on Fellowship. And recently, Dom and Billy were discussing the fact that he seems to do poorly at games where you have to figure out angles, like billiards, because of his eyesight. Besides nearsightedness, he has a slight strabismus in one eye (which you can see in LOTR, particularly right at the beginning of T2T and ROTK, and appears to become worse when he's tired).

I also recently saw a picture of Elijah as a child with glasses, so yep -- he wears corrective contact lenses and glasses and has for a long time now.

Hobmom

01-31-2004, 05:25 PM

Elwen! Is that you? THE Elwen from LJ or another Elwen?

Good contact lens comments. I think ..as a VERRRRY nearsighted contact-wearing and bespectacled person myself... that I can see contacts in Elijah's eyes most of the time. I haven't made an in depth study for his contacts in ALL the LOTR shots but I will watch for them from now on.

Edit.....

Grumpy (Nice thought on the "Letters" site but I really think he'd giggle himself silly ) (dad-burned whippersnapper)

Y'know I don't think he will laugh. Lately he has been saying very kind things about older LOTR fans and how he appreciates our gratitude SO much. He's been actually quite emotional about this. He was very worried at the start of filming that his Frodo wouldn't meet up with the book fans high expectations. Now that he has MORE than met our highest hopes he is very humbly overwhelmed by our expressions of thanks. He's said this in many interviews lately.

So the idea for the letters to Elijah site came about amongst several of us KDers who thought that once all the hoopla for ROTK dies down Elijah is really going to be hit with the reality that it is really over. He has said that's when he thinks the loss of it will hit him the hardest. So we thought writing him sincerely thoughtful and encouraging messages (quite different than the silliness of younger fan-girls) was a nice gesture of thanks for bringing so much light into so many of our old weary lives.

So if Elijah has become special to you in these past three years please come and leave a message telling him so and how much we look forward to seeing his work and growth as a person in the future. Maybe sometime he'll read them and get a nice boost. And that's what the place will be all about.

Letters to Elijah (http://www.livejournal.com/community/elijahsletters/285.html)

mel headstrong

01-31-2004, 05:31 PM

Originally posted by erendis
There appears to be a very faint line on the lower portion of Frodo's left Eye. If it's a contact, then it breaks the light-reflection.
If that's a contact, it looks like it has slipped down below where it should be. (Which is something that could happen looking up like that, especially if it's hot and dry. Because of lights, I mean, not because he's in a volcano. ;) )

The break in the lighting doesn't look like it's exactly in the right place for normal soft contacts.

Also, Elwen, LOL at the thought of you staring into Frodo's eyes for an entire movie! Ah, the horror. ;) :D (No, Hobmom, this is Elwen from Imladris and CoE. She doesn't have a LJ.)

Mel

Elwen

01-31-2004, 05:31 PM

LOL! now that's expertise :)

OK, I can help with some of the technical things.

Erendis: they can do a few things with 'lighting' in digital grading. Check the appropriate extra of the FotR SE where they light a part of Aragorn's face during the Boromir death scene. Lesnie has also said that they somehow sharpen the image ariound the eyes to make the movement and imnpression more visible (as if you'd need that with Elijah Wood ;) )

Note that something like that is also done with the ring in those Mordor scenes: the ring is so amazingly bright, with no light lighting up anything else around it: digital grading.

Concerning contacts you can't see throgh properly: these are really heavily painted ones that they use only for extreme makeup jobs - Andy Serkis had some for the last Gollum stage!

The only time we actually see EW with this sort of contact lenses is at the ford in FotR. And as I have said above it isn't impossible that this is what Harry of AICN saw.

Elwen

Prim

01-31-2004, 05:48 PM

re the thread:

Thank you for the feedback. I think I expressed my point very poorly and you ladies have been patient.

I am leaving the thread not just because of the swooniness but because to be honest my EW fascination took a dive with Try Seventeen and never recovered. I take from this that this "phase" of my life is pretty much over. In fact my appearances here have been almost completely to keep up with what is happening to the Faculty troops as a community, rather than as a EW fan. Its an attraction to the lovely people rather than to the original topic. I imagine this will intermittently drag me back here :) but my regular lurking will go.

It's this interest in the Faculty as a community that made me wonder if the thread should be merged. There are very few regular posters here now who don't swoon. Perhaps this change in "clientele" is an indication the thread might need to head in a new direction ?
If Moggy and the Mods (Narya :) ) are happy with things the way they are and are not concerned with bandwith that's cool. But a blend does seem to me to be logical. It seems to work in Frodo's Kitchen ( :D bumped into that thread at TORC a while ago lady Wendy but never posted.).

Whatever you decide...good luck. I will lurk from time to time.
:k

Maeglian

01-31-2004, 06:18 PM

I'm way behind in all sorts of discussions, but will chip in with some random comments to past discussions anyhow.

(((Prim))), I'll see you around, when you lurk now and then. :) I'm another one who do not plan to ever start swooning over Elijah Wood the real living person, and that's a fact. How the thread will evolve from here, I'm not certain myself at this point. But then again, my attendance has been very erratic lately so I'm hardly entitled to being too opinionated on the matter, anyway.

Belated happy birthday, Deluby! And thank you for the lovely mathom you left us with. I liked it so much I had to change my avatar - again! :)

About cloudy contact lenses: It could very well be that the scene they were filming that Harry Knowles witnessed, with Elijah weaing the "milky" contact lenses, was in relation to a FotR ford scene. I remember from the same description of Harry's that he said he touched the cloak of Elijah's costume, and that it was a "very loose weave". I've previously figured that *had* to mean an elven cloak, but when I saw Frodo's size double's Fellowship costume at the London exhibition I was surprised to see that his green cloak was a fairly loose weave, too. It doesn't look that way in the film, it looks much more "solid". (BTW, the costumes at the exhibition were so impressive and wonderful and gorgeous when seen up-close that again I say: It will be a total *travesty* if Ngila doesn't finally get her more than well-deserved oscar this time around!!!)

I go back ever so often to watch the NewLineAward site's little clip from the "End of all things". What strikes me, of course, are the immense and utterly distracting over-the-top special effects in that clip, not to mention the far too overt wink-wink-nudge-nudge- Frodo and-Sam-are-sooo-gay message! I really don't know what PJ was *thinking*, taking away audience focus from the characters and their story, and ruining the scene with unneccessary and extraneous stuff like that!! :rolleyes: :rolleyes: Or not....... Sarcasm aside, I honestly don't know how any film critic with eyes and ears and a somewhat functioning brain can watch that whole sequence at Mt. Doom and still not realize that this film shows superb acting and portrays an overwhelming yet believable range of emotions, above all else. I pity people who aren't able to see that, for whatever "politicking" reason or bias they might have.

Rikka, concerning audience behaviour, I'd say that audiences here are extremely polite, and silent most of the time. Shelob stalking and stinging Frodo always gets Eeps and Eeks and screams, though, and every other performance someone laughs at Frodo after he's been stung. But I've always just thought of that as release of tension after the scare - it's not an uncommon human reaction to laugh when the tension becomes overwhelming. I've never seen it as laughing *at* Frodo.

There's never been anyone laughing at any of the emotional or tender scenes between the hobbits. I hope that's a sign we've actually come so far here by now that tenderness between males doesn't make anyone so uncomfortable that they feel they have to jeer to distance themselves from it.

Interesting about the eyes and brightness; - Elwen, I think I shall have to follow suit and pay *especial* attention to the eye lights next time I watch RotK. Certainly there are several scenes where Frodo's eyes seem supernaturally bright . In the scenes with Gollum (and Sam) on the stairs, for instance, and in the Wheel of Fire scene.....

Yes, I do need to go see RotK again as soon as I can manage - it'll soon be gone from the cinema here! :eek:

Sharpe's Girl

01-31-2004, 07:11 PM

Thanks for the welcome! Yes, I picked out the name Sharpe's Girl in response to my fondness for Mr. Bean's performance (he was actually the cast member of LotR that I was the most familiar with before seeing FotR, after seeing him in Sharpe, Goldeneye, and Patriot's Game).

Erendis, don't forget that they can target light into a character's eyes through digital grading now, so the Wheel of Fire segment might have had a bit more punch added to it that way.

shilohmm

01-31-2004, 11:22 PM

Originally posted by tgshaw

Omaha seems to have been quite taken with these movies. Or maybe it's just that folks are more polite here ;) .

You may be on to something there. ;) My aunt from Vermont sweats that people in the mid-west are far more polite than people on the east coast, and I've noticed that the audiences here in South Bend are generally pretty polite as well. Of course, there was that idiot I was sitting beside for my first viewing of ROTK, who kept making rude remarks about Frodo, but (a) he was probably some jerk Notre Dame kid from back east :p and (b) he really was speaking pretty softly - I doubt much of anyone could hear him but me those of us sitting to either side of him.

I think my third viewing there were a couple of people laughing (quietly) at inappropriate times, though, and it really does influence your viewing experience - I found myself cringing as my favorite scenes, because I knew they were going to laugh! I decided after a while that it was nervous laughter - they were releasing tension rather than laughing *at* the characters - but I suspect that if audiences were as bad here as they are in Russia, Rikka, I'd just wait for the DVD.

Of course, then I have to deal with the kids asking a stream of questions and things, but they usually sit through a movie at least *once* dead silent absorbing the visuals.

originally posted by zkgrumpy
They usually had very classically beautiful profiles (John Barrymore) or huge, luminous eyes (Lillian Gish), and directors depended on their ability to speak volumes without words. The way he used his eyes in LotR reminded me so much of Lillian Gish - she had the same huge blue eyes that showed you her character's soul.

Thank you for saying that, grumpy! Lillian Gish is exactly who I thought of when the silent film discussion started up, and her performance in Broken Blossoms is one that came to mind. tgshaw is right that a lot of the actors in the silent films would ham it up, and Gish was sometimes guilty of that - but she could also do very stunning, subtle work that reminds me of Elijah. I think it's in The Wind where there's a long sequence without dialogue, and she says so much just by how she stands and moves and her expressions. With Gish the dialogue cards sometimes seemed superfluous - you already knew what she'd thought and said by her expression.

Hope I have my Gish sisters straight there. :p

orignally posted by Achila
he has a slight strabismus in one eye

Welcome, Achila!

Okay, I should know this but I can't remember - what's a strabismus?

originally posted by Prim
It's this interest in the Faculty as a community that made me wonder if the thread should be merged. There are very few regular posters here now who don't swoon.

I follow both the Faculty and the Hugs thread, and I do think they serve two different purposes. The Faculty focuses more on Elijah's acting and the movies he's been in, while the Hugs thread focuses more on Elijah the person - whether it be swooning or discussing news about what he's up to or whatever. I believe there are people who like being able to pop into Hugs and see some pretty piccies without having to wade through all this analysis, and I expect there are people in the Faculty who aren't comfortable with swooning and discussion of Elijah's more private life. Of course there is some overlap, just as there is overlap between the Faculty and the Harem, and sometimes between the Faculty and some of the threads in the Trilogy and Green Dragon forums, for that matter, but the general trends of the three CC threads are different.

I have given up on keeping up with the Harem, although I still pop in there fairly regularly, I follow both the Faculty and the Hugs thread, and I kind of like the fact that they're sorted out myself.

I had more to say on this and that, but my internet was down half the week and I've read through four pages of the thread today and now it's midnight and I haven't a clue what I was going to say. :rolleyes:

Oh! I hope you'll pop in fairly often, Prim - write if you get a chance. :D

Happy Birthday, deluby

I'm not even going to bother with "belated" anymore. Just assume I live in a time warp... (((((deluby)))))

http://www.weddingcakelady.com/Stacked/new/1s15.jpg

And welcome to Sharpe's Girl (do I recognize you from CoE? I could have sworn you were in Bean's Brigade - or where ever it is they slide into the gutter...) and Elwen (woah, Elwen, posting more than once - is CoE down or something? :D).

(((((Faculty))))

Sheryl

Sharpe's Girl

02-01-2004, 01:44 AM

I might have posted once or twice in the Bean thread at CoE waaaaaaay back in the beginning (and I mean before the big crash, when it was still Imladris), and I did post a couple of times in the Faculty's precursor over there after FotR was released, but after that I didn't get involved in that forum at all. I pretty much stick with the movie discussion forum nowadays.

I've been getting caught up on LotR cast members' other films, as well as some of PJ's pre-LotR flicks in the past six months, and have discovered some good stuff. Lovedlovedloved Heavenly Creatures and A Walk on the Moon, liked The Frighteners, Rudy, The Faculty, and Deep Impact (which I hadn't seen since it was in the theaters), caught an ep of Hetty Winthrop for Dom (not bad, but not my cup of tea), and only thought "meh" for GI Jane, A Perfect Murder, and The Goonies. Oh, and turned off both the Psycho remake (sorry, Psycho only works in B&W and with Anthony Perkins, regardless of the Viggo factor) and Black Hawk Down (couldn't get into it) after seeing the LotR boys in the beginnings.

I am looking forward to both Troy and Hidalgo, and have both Huck Finn and All I Want on my Netflix queue.

honeyelf

02-01-2004, 02:14 AM

I apologize for any untoward squeeage I have been responsible for. He just makes it too darned easy to get carried away!

Am I too old to swoon for the lad? Let's just say that I'm very grateful to him for having had a birthday this week, so that he is no longer half my age, and leave it at that.

Is there an expiration date on appreciating beauty? I certainly hope not!

Do I appreciate his talent? You bet I do! I wouldn't still be here if he were just another pretty face. He made me FEEL what Frodo was feeling several times over the course of LOTR. I can't wait to see what he does with the rest of his career!

And if all the above was "swooning" then feel free to heap dead fish on me, trout or otherwise. (Just no exploding whales please! But then those are mammals anyway. :rolleyes: )

Elwen, that was some impressive research regarding the eyes, and when or if they were digitally/lensically enhanced!

I will pop in to make observations from time to time, but probably not frequently as I don't usually have anything interesting to say anyhow.

Honey!

Achila

02-01-2004, 08:22 AM

Re: question about strabismis == "lazy eye". Considering that we know how exhausted everyone was during the LOTR filming (and EW in particular), it's not surprising to see that occurring in some of the scenes; apparently, it's really only a problem when he's tired, and then his eyes don't track perfectly together. One seems to be a little wider than the other as well.

Speaking of Heavenly Creatures, I finally got to see it yesterday -- great film! And some scenes have LOTR foreshadowing -- there's one scene where Pauline is sitting in the psychiatrist's office, in front of the doctor, and she imagines someone stabbing him from behind with a sword. You see, from her POV, the sword come through him but you don't see the "stabber" until he appears over the doctor's shoulder. JUST like the Tower of Cirith Ungol scene with Sam and Sting. It's interesting how filmmakers find angles or techniques they like to use and repeat them in several different films.

As an aside, has anyone else noticed that all the members of the Fellowship wear their elven brooches with the tip pointing to the right, except Sam?

Moondancer

02-01-2004, 08:29 AM

I'm not trying to get a complete EJW movie collection but certain movies are certainly on my wish list.

Sooo...I did some serious EJW hunting in the internet. I saw several fairly good reviews of Chain Of Fools in this thread so I decided to track it down.
I managed to track down a region 2 Chain Of Fools DVD. It wasn't very cheap but still within limits. :)

So, besides waiting for the All I Want/Try Seventeen DVD, I have another new Elijah Wood movie to look forward to.
The Bumblebee Flies Away is only available in the region 1 format, so no luck there. :(

I won't buy that animated movie that shall not be named.
Black and White is also not on my wish list.

Prim and others,
As a newbie...my voice and vote in the merging of threads debate does not carry a lot of weight but here's my opinion anyway;) :

I don't know if the merging of The Faculty and the Harem would work.
Until now, I have mainly posted in The Faculty. I love following the deep analyses of various EJW movies. Some posts confirm my own opinions and views, others have made me look at certain scenes and movies from a different angle.
I like the fact that this thread has a complete respect for Elijah's private life (not that the other threads show no respect).
I love to read interviews with Elijah Wood. Mainly because he's choice of words is often interesting and it's obvious that he's intelligent and eloquent. I usually am a bit uncomfortable when I read the more personal stuff. I read an interview, some time ago, in which they asked personal questions about the relationship with his father. He answered the questions and was open in his answers (according to the journalist). It was interesting to read but at the same time, I thought that this was none of my business.
I would prefer to read deep and interesting interviews about his acting skills, his movies, his views on Hollywood,...
(and not just the answer to the silly questions like the ones about his tattoo,...:rolleyes:...I mean I love those lighter questions too - certainly if it gives you the opportunity to listen to him giggling - but I would love to see more of the meaningful topics in interviews.)

So, in short. I agree that the various threads concerning Frodo and Elijah serve different purposes.

About the swooning. I agree with Honeyelf that there's no age limit to appreciating beauty. I'm not old enough to be his mum but still a bit older and I would not say that I'm swooning over him but I certainly think that he is a beautiful person from the outside and - as far as I can tell - from the inside as well.
If I were to swoon over somebody in LOTR, I would choose Karl Urban I think, but from an acting point of view - he's not as interesting as Elijah Wood (but I might be underestimating mister Eomer here)... but I completely understand why some are swooning over Frolijah...he's fascinating to look at and some of the latest photoshoots really show that he's finally starting to get a more adult look. That's one of the fun things of about the fact that he was a child star: being able to see him grow up and now being able to see how he finds his way in the adult world.

Narya Celebrian

02-01-2004, 08:39 AM

This isn't intended to stifle anyone who feels they want to have their say on the matter, but I just wanted everyone to know there is no plan to merge the threads, and no serious consideration is being given to it. They've evolved the way they have for very good reasons, and a large majority of people are comfortable with the distinctions between them. They're nice and handy in one forum, so anyone (like me :D) who enjoys going to all three can do so easily, and those who prefer to stick to one or two can do so as well. Feel free to continue to discuss it, if you want, but if anyone is concerned that the discussion might lead to sudden unwanted action, it won't . The status quo will remain.

((((Faculty)))

whiteling

02-01-2004, 09:21 AM

Originally posted by Moondancer
Sooo...I did some serious EJW hunting in the internet. I saw several fairly good reviews of Chain Of Fools in this thread so I decided to track it down.
I managed to track down a region 2 Chain Of Fools DVD. It wasn't very cheap but still within limits. :)

Moondancer, congrats on purchasing "Chain of Fools" - :D :D :D - what a hilarious film!! It has been aired here lately and I loved its black humour (was reminded of some charming morbid Austrian comedies I used to see.... btw Hi Elwen ;) !).
And Elwood! Awwww, his hitman is killingly funny. Smart, cool, tough and desperately trying to exude cold-bloodedness, but totally lost, sensitive and filled with the extreme longing for a friend. The only thing you want to do is to hug and comfort him.

I also loved Andy, the main character's scoutmaster friend. What a pervert :p !

I'll need more viewings to catch all the wonderful details. Damned research :D .

Btw - great avatar, Moondancer!

Well, as for me I appreciate The Faculty for the opportunity to share non-swooning thoughts, meanings, observations and so on. Thanks to your posts I've reached a deeper understanding of film-acting and the LotR Trilogy. I must admit that I am much more an equivalent to a "good listener" - perhaps you could say, I'm a "good reader". It takes me a long time to read, to digest and to think over statements and often I've learned that it was too late to contribute my thoughts on specific topics here (and yet I feel myself slowed down by the translation process, argh!). But even due to the fact that it is sometimes hard for me to take part here (you know, feeling notworthy and being amongst super-brains, feeling not very luminary myself :) ) I'll stick to you, Faculty!
Hugs to all!

And yes - WELCOME, Sharpe's Girl and Yowser! :) :)

shilohmm

02-01-2004, 09:27 AM

originally posted by Sharpe's Girl
I pretty much stick with the movie discussion forum nowadays.

:cool: That's probably where I've seen you - I started out within LOTR fandom at the CoE movie forum and still wander through there once in a while.

originally posted by honeyelf
I don't usually have anything interesting to say anyhow.

Oh, malarky. Is that how you characterize your "aspect ratio" comment on Frodo at the Crack of Doom, or your comments on The Ice Storm?

*trouts honey if so*

originally posted by Achila

As an aside, has anyone else noticed that all the members of the Fellowship wear their elven brooches with the tip pointing to the right, except Sam?

I've heard that before but keep forgetting to check. I know that you can often tell which shots have been flopped by which way the leaves are pointing - except supposedly they tried to predict that and flip them ahead of time, so sometimes it's that the shot has *not* been flipped. :p

Moondancer,

Do tell us what you thought of Chain of Fools. It's one of my favorite EW performances. I'm one who wishes he'd do more comedy.

Originally posted by Narya Celebrian
I just wanted everyone to know there is no plan to merge the threads, and no serious consideration is being given to it.

Narya,
:k :)

I wasn't worried that the threads were going to be merged, but I do think it can be hard for people who don't follow all three threads to know what goes where. I was just thinking aloud about how I see them. Things are more casual than they once were - there was a time when euro's report on meeting Elijah Wood being posted to the Harem would have started a riot :D, and the Faculty gets more swoony than it ever did at Imly - but the overlap has always been there, and things almost always get posted to the "right" thread eventually I think. Most "meeting Elijah" stories end up in Hugs, even if they started somewhere else; while erendis' "Frodo wig" post was originally posted to the Harem, IIRC, even though it's a classic "how does he do that" sort of thing and so ended up posted to the Faculty as well.

It is confusing, but then, we're a quirky bunch. ;) Divvying things up tends to be our method of not only freeing people from following two enormous threads to get the info they want, but of accomodating everyone's comfort levels. The fanfic thread exists outside the Harem for much the same reason - although there may have been hope at one point that moving fanfic discussion out of the Harem might mean it wouldn't be dominated by Frodo fic. Didn't work, last time I checked. :p

Sheryl

edit:

originally posted by whiteling
Smart, cool, tough and desperately trying to exude cold-bloodedness, but totally lost, sensitive and filled with the extreme longing for a friend. The only thing you want to do is to hug and comfort him.

I just love this description and had to repost it. What's funny is how closely it also fits Jones. Not the cold-blooded part, of course, and Jones didn't see himself as smart, cool, or tough - but he rather was, y'know. I need to watch All I Want again; that's a very interesting performance, as well, but not nearly as much fun. I say I'd like to see EW in more comedy, but romantic comedy isn't what I have in mind. Jones is more injured than Mikey II. I would love to see Elijah do a good spy spoof - one that isn't too silly, but that would give him plenty of opportunity to run around in cool black clothes beating up bad guys. :D

OTOH, I'd love to see him in a Cary Grant-type romantic comedy. And I often wonder how EW would handle an Arsenic and Old Lace-type role. One with a romantic element but also a bit of desperation and juggling about ten things at once and where he's a bit of a straight-man surounded by crazies. Grant was usually a pretty subtle actor, and he "mugged" on that role more than any other I've seen him in, I think, I never thought I'd see Elijah interpret a role like that, but after his Saturday Night Live appearance, who knows? :D

Yowzer,
Welcome! I forgot I was going to ask you about something.

originally posted by Yowzer
I read or heard or seen something to the effect that the writers talked about changing Frodo's line from the book in the Mount Doom scene to make him appear more selfless and focus the concern onto Sam.

Are you referring to the scene where Frodo comforts Sam while everything's blowing up around them? I *love* the subtlty of that line and scene, and you're right, it has been changed a bit in order to show that Frodo's focusing his concern on Sam. I don't think the line is from the book, but it perfectly reflects what bookFrodo feels at that point, I think. He's finished his task, he's free of the Ring, and he's finally *able* to think about what Sam's gone through. Do you remember when you ran across that comment? I should wander TORN and see if I can find a nice long PJ interview - haven't read one in a while.

honey,
:k

(((((Faculty)))))

Sheryl

honeyelf

02-01-2004, 09:35 AM

Deluby,
I took another look at that piccie you posted. I am certain it is not from the end of "fellowship," and that is not Frodo's tweedy jacket. The tweedy jacket has those fashionable tab thingies on the cuffs. This one doesn't. Whomever is being hugged (merry, or pippin) is definetly wearing a Lorien cloak, as it has that distinctive weave. Further Frodo is to the right rather than the left as in the Amun Hen departure scene. I think it's definetley Grey Havens.

Howzat for useless information?

Shilohm,
Oh, malarky. Is that how you characterize your "aspect ratio" comment on Frodo at the Crack of Doom, or your comments on The Ice Storm?

Awww! :k

Honey!

Lady Wendy

02-01-2004, 10:27 AM

Hello ladies.

Hey look, I have my very own beautiful avatar... Hurray !!!

Narya,
I, ( speaking as a newbie here, even though...yes indeed... 'twas I, who started off the Favourite Picture thing ) would like to state, for the record, that I'm very glad that there are no plans to merge the two threads on this Forum...

And this is why...

The three threads DO have seperate identities, and imho, ought to remain that way...
While the picture thing only served to prove that there are plenty of us here, who happily lust after Elijah, ( even though, yes, I AM old enough to be his mother...do I care ?...No !!! ) as well as appreciating his beauty of spirit, and liking him as a person, with all his wit and intelligence, the Faculty Lounge Thread is actually a very in-depth discussion thread for us to examine his acting techniques in great detail, with the admirable help of tgshaw's lovely screencapping talents, and it would be a great shame if that thread-identity was lost.

Elijah's non-Frodo Hugs Haven is yer place to swoon endlessly over the Lad himself, and I know that there are plenty of people here who aren't averse to a good swoon now and then !!!;) ;) ;)

Then there's Frodo's Harem, where all of us ladies, who are helplessly in love with this character, can go to discuss the various lovely bits of Frodo that endear him to us, as a book-character as well as Film-Frodo, brought to astonishing life by Our Dear Lij...

That means there are not one, but three ...( yes,THREE...count 'em !! )...beautiful discussion threads to explore and enjoy ourselves on...tell me of ANY other site that provides such a plethora of pleasures ( apart from Tolkien Online, which is daunting, to say the least !! )...so long as we can differentiate between them, I don't see a problem, as long as newbies like me don't make too many mistakes...and I have, I'll admit it :rolleyes: :o but I have got to know this place better now...

So, I for one, am quite happy with the seperate threads, as it does keep everyone happy this way...Prim, it seems, wasn't really unhappy with the thread itself, rather she has come to the end of her time appreciating Elijah, and so has said Goodbye...let's hope she comes back, but I doubt it really.

zkgrumpy and shilohm,
About the thought that Elijah would have made an excellent silent-movie actor - this isn't something I've ever thought about before, but you certainly have a very good point...he is a very facial actor, as we know, and this would have been a godsend in the twenties...Charlie Chaplin is another actor who immediately springs to mind here...
Imho, Elijah is going to be a very interesting actor to watch, and I do hope he manages to carve out himself a career with the more interesting and quirky movies that he professes to love...a career akin to Johnny Depp's would be perfect !! J.D. has made some very astute choices, and some bad ones, it has to be said, but now, he is a very well-respected actor who can make or break a movie..what if Captain Jack had been played by ANYONE else ??? - Unthinkable...likewise, Frodo...( although, it has just occured to me that J.D. may have been a good alternative choice, if Elijah hadn't come along...even though he is more famous than P.J. wanted...)

Honey,

... will pop in to make observations from time to time, but probably not frequently as I don't usually have anything interesting to say anyhow.

Whatcher talking about, girl...haven't got anything interesting to say, indeed ??!!! ...
This, ladies, from the woman who spoke most eloquently about how she came to be an Elijah fan, and a LOTR fan, and showed the rest of us that we aren't the only ones who are raving mad in our past-forty years fandom...and, yes, I too was quite happy for Our Lij to have a birthday this week...makes me feel a little younger, if that's possible !!!
So please, Honey, join in anyway...we can't talk to you if you only lurk...

Achila,

As an aside, has anyone else noticed that all the members of the Fellowship wear their elven brooches with the tip pointing to the right, except Sam?

I was watching the Director's commentary, for The Two Towers, and when Aragorn, Gimli, and Legolas are wlking through Fangorn Forest, just before encountering Gandalf the White, there is a bit where P.J. openly admits that he decided to flip some shots of Legolas for reasons of continuity...sequences filmed months apart ?...and, yes, his brooch obligingly flips from pointing right to pointing left, and then back again...quite odd once it was pointed out. This isn't something I noticed at all, but now, I won't be able to see anything else during that scene !!...maybe Sam's brooch was a victim of the same scene-flipping technique...or maybe he was just left-handed when it came to putting it on in the morning !!!

The other thing you asked a few pages back was where did Shelob sting Frodo...well, she stung him in the back of the neck...well above the mithril vest, and nowhere that you could see from the front at all...the round scar on Frodo's collar-bone area, was due to the weight of the Ring on its chain, as I understand it...Tolkien says that it left wheals in his flesh...Poor Frodo !!! He did suffer a lot...

For those who are interested...I have updated both of my Picture Albums, for Frodo, and Elijah, with a few new pictures in each, and comments for all of them...please feel free to download pics if you like 'em, and also feel free to comment in the guest-book for each picture, or at the end...I will also be making an album for avatars...I had to start one in order to get a pic small enough for me to link to here...There will be more of those soon...

Whiteling,
About avatars...yes, I noticed yours as soon as I came here...the moving one I use at the Empire site was one I downloaded from somewhere, as I certainly don't have the technical skill or knowhow to do this myself... :rolleyes:

As for Elijah's movie-tally...I've only seen :-
"North" ( bad movie - good Elijah )
"The Good Son" (bad Mackauly - good Elijah )
"Flipper" ( Awful movie - pretty good Elijah )
"The War " (good movie - truly excellent Elijah )
"Deep Impact " ( ditto)
and, lastly "The Faculty" ( ditzy movie - good Elijah )

So how did I do, in my ratings ?? - agree or disagree ?

Moondancer

02-01-2004, 12:23 PM

Originally posted by whiteling
"Chain of Fools" - - what a hilarious film!!
Well, I'm looking forward to watching it.

Originally posted by shilohmm
Moondancer,
Do tell us what you thought of Chain of Fools. It's one of my favorite EW performances. I'm one who wishes he'd do more comedy.
I will, but the DVD has to be shipped from the other side of the world :eek: so, it might take a while.
I was a bit nervous for him when I found out that he was going to do Saturday Night Live, but after seeing the SNL snippets on the internet, I'm reassured that he has the talent to do just that.

Edit to add this:
I found this on the TORN forum. It's about the Wheel Of Fire scene and how intense it was, not just for Frodo and Sam but also for the actors themselves and PJ (how deep Elijah had to go for this).
I find this post so beautiful that it's worth repeating in here.
Originally posted by Frodo-esque on the TORN message board

Background

I was commenting to her that I marveled at how Elijah and cast were able to bring forth so realistically the tears and the raw grit required for the emotionally-wrought moments in ROTK (most particularly the "Wheel of Fire" scene at Mt. Doom). What Goldilocks added to my opinion however was to realize that Elijah, Sean and the Cast BECAME the characters and genuinely felt the true sadness that the characters did. As a result of that reality, PJ and crew were left in tears during the filming of that Mt. Doom scene as they were off-camera. Elijah became Frodo so intensely during this "Wheel of Fire" sequence that he was literally shaking during the it's execution. Seeing this, PJ softly encouraged: "That's it Elijah, now go deeper". And the result of this encouragement is apparently what we see on the big screen. It seems that this scene was so overwhelming for Elijah, that he had to silently leave the premises and to be alone for a while. (Frodo-esque pauses to regroup emotionally..

At Comic Con 2003
Goldilocks1420 then told me of an episode that occured at ComicCon 2003. Sean, Elijah, Andy, and others were on stage when a short clip of this same Mt. Doom scene was previewed for audiences in attendence. When the clip ended, Sean was seen turning to Elijah, and accepting him in his arms when Eli's overcome with emotion. This description brought me to tears, but imagine my response when she sent me a picture of the actual moment. It was Seans kiss and Elijah's head turn that did me in:
http://www.theonering.net/rumour_mill/rpg/viewer/main/401D4FCE000AE5C2.html

serena

02-01-2004, 03:35 PM

What a wonderful quotation in your simulpost, Moondancer. Makes me think what's below is too frivolous. But then, maybe not.
It's another of those "where do I start?" occasions. So many crucial topics being thrown around, and some inspiring or even alarming posts (not to mention the gorgeous pics and gifs - once again, thank you, Hobmom, Blossom and everyone else who contributed :k). RL has finally dropped me from its claws for a day or so (OK, maybe it's a benign eagle), so here's a first attempt to catch up.

Honeyelf, you DO have interesting things to say, and I hope you continue to say them! I hope we all do.

Prim, you're entitled to be an exception if you wish. Confession time: I understand your feelings about Try17, as it had a similar effect on me (that's why I've refrained from saying anything much about it so far). OK, I know I'm going to be castigated for this, but for about 48 hours after watching it I thought my Elijah obsession was over :eek:. Happily, that little phase ended when I watched some of his other films again and the LOTR extra material, in which I find him universally adorable and brilliant.
So what's the problem with Try17? I think it was the wrong choice for him. He simply doesn't make a convincing gawky teenager; he radiates wisdom and maturity whether he likes it or not. For Frodo that youth, beauty, innocence and wisdom were the perfect combination, but for the gauche Jones it didn't work IMHO. I had the constant feeling EW felt uncomfortable with the role (and his reaction when asked about it recently by a German interviewer speaks volumes; contrast Chain of Fools, which also went straight to video but which Elijah clearly adores). The hairstyle and the clothes in Try17 didn't do much for him either. Some of the screenplay was quirky and original and even moving, but other parts were excruciatingly hackneyed. All in all, I could hardly believe that this was the same guy I'd been worshipping ever since seeing him in LOTR and before that in Forever Young. And in CoF. There too he played a 17-year-old, but the script was hilarious and gave him ample opportunity to play a fascinating if, erm, implausible character and send himself up while looking and sounding extremely sexy (not that that has anything to do with anyone's assessment of his acting, naturally ;) ). OK, end of diversion.

But I do hope this thread continues well beyond the end of LOTR. I feel Elijah is far more than just an exceptional person and a fantastically gifted actor, and I hope we all continue to wish him love, happiness and perfect roles* for the future (not to mention the music and film production companies he dreams of having, and the ideal films to direct).
*[Einstein??? See this (http://www.abandonent.com/content/films/picasso.html) for latest news; the Abandonent site suggests the film really is in preproduction and a going concern!! :cool:]

OK, to prove that my EW obsession is still alive, well and ruling far too much of my life, here's another confession: early Friday evening I suddenly found myself free - and alone - after a singing engagement was cancelled at very short notice. So what did I do? Went to see ROTK, of course! All by myself, for once. Sat near the front so as to have a clear view of the screen (and the bigger the better, I'd say). Sound is excellent there too (despite listening carefully I still can't make out the ILY in the GH scene - sorry, Blossom! - but I agree the guys make it so obvious visually that words are scarcely necessary). Anyway, the show ended at about 9.30 p.m. Because I was hungry I left through the entrance door rather than the exit, bought some food and then found myself confronted with a screen listing all the films at the multiplex. The 9 pm (9.20 if you miss out the ads and trailers) showing of ROTK had just begun. The door was right there in front of me. I felt like Frodo at the CoD (I too can resist anything except temptation ;) ). So I went in and watched the whole thing again :eek:. Two consecutive showings - is this a record? So my tally is up to 5 now. (One of these days I'll get round to recounting my Wellington and post-Wellington experiences. One day ....)
And the film itself? That too will have to wait - this is already too long. 'Bye for now ....

Elwen

02-01-2004, 05:39 PM

Moondancer, that is an imnpressive story (also because EW usually isn't at all a method actor - remember the picture of EW wrestling with Andy Serkis, and the picture after the cut where he is smiling?) ....

I can't wait for the DVD commentaries on this!

ANyway, what exactly is the source for the background information? Where did the TORN poster get this from?

Elwen

Achila

02-01-2004, 06:44 PM

That even makes it more heartbreaking that neither Lij nor Sean (but particularly Lij) was nominated for their performance.

Moondancer

02-02-2004, 01:37 AM

Originally posted by Elwen
ANyway, what exactly is the source for the background information? Where did the TORN poster get this from?

I'm not 100% sure of the source (or about the reliability), but the poster on TORN wrote this, based on a report from ComicCon2003 (Sean and Elijah,... were present). Here's a link to the particular thread on the TORN message board:
http://www.theonering.net/rumour_mill/rpg/viewer/main/401D2F59000AE58D.html

edit, just to be as correct as possible with my information: Reading the entire thread on TORN, it has been remarked that the posted picture (with Elijah hugging Sean and Sean kissing Elijah's shoulder) was taken when they were showing 'The long and the short of it'. There's no photo of the particular hug the two actors had when they were showing the 'Wheel On Fire' clip on ComicCon.

that is an imnpressive story (also because EW usually isn't at all a method actor - remember the picture of EW wrestling with Andy Serkis, and the picture after the cut where he is smiling?) ....
Elijah is not a method actor, so I don't think that he had to search within himself to find a personal experience he could use for this scene. I think that he tends to really get into the character and feel that character - instead of identifying with him. For this scene, I guess that he had to go really deep inside Frodo to get this scene right.
Remember that he felt kind of depressed after he returned from New Zealand? No wonder after having been through this intense Frodo experience for so long.

BLOSSOM

02-02-2004, 01:48 AM

Sorry to interrupt things with another GH 'I love you' post, but I just wanted to respond to Honey's (don't you dare go into lurk mode again, Honey!) question. (Haven't had the time to collect my thoughts together and post until now) I'll make this the last mention of 'those three words' (unless someone else brings it up) as I imagine you must all be getting a little bored of this 'is it there, isn't it there' topic. Sorry this is rambling. Please feel free to ignore, scroll past... whatever.

Originally posted by Honeyelf:
Blossom, regarding the "I love you" I have listened twice now in the theater, and I don't hear it. But I have an honest question. Why do you want/need that line to be there? To me it just seems a little out of character... I'm just very curious what those three little words add for you?
____________________________________________

It's not that I want or need that line in there, Honey. The Grey Havens is incredibly moving without it. I cried when watching it the first and second times I saw ROTK in the cinema and I hadn't heard the 'whisper' then. I also watched my crebain a few times before 'hearing' it, and the scene had the same emotional impact. I think you're right when you say we don't NEED to hear those words to know that there is great affection between Frodo and Sam (indeed, between the Fellowship as a whole) - it's been apparent throughout the trilogy - PJ, Elijah and Sean obviously intended that to come across to the audience. Of course there are accusations of homoeroticism thrown about by some people, and no amount of protestation from any of us will convince them otherwise. I don't see it myself. All I see are two friends going through the worst experiences imaginable. The hardships and emotions of the journey they have been on together have strained and tested their friendship, and I think by the end their relationship has evolved into something more 'sacred,' (if that's the right word) for both of them.

I was surprised and quite shocked myself when I 'heard' those words, and I don't know why they impacted on me so much. But if they are there - and I fully accept and understand that for lots of you there's nothing - I'm not sure it's so out of character for Film Frodo. I find Frodo's whole demeanour during this scene heartbreaking, and yet he's the only one who ISN'T crying. He's calm and solemn, yet he's also incredibly sad at leaving his friends, especially Sam. When the others are weeping at Gandalfs impending departure you begin to realize that Frodo knows something they dont - he already seems set apart from them by his manner, his expression, his body language. His farewell hugs with Merry and Pippin are heart-rending enough - their tears and his eyes express the pain and sadness they all feel, but the parting with Sam is more tragic. In the books it is Sam who declares, 'I love him, whether or no,' to the reader. In the film GH poor Sam is grief-stricken when he realizes Frodo is leaving, and I think Frodos own grief cannot be underestimated. Hes been hurt, haunted by memories he cannot escape - as others have said, hes probably suffering from PTSD - he knows and accepts he must leave Middle-earth, but to leave this friend, this loyal, trusted hobbit whose support and companionship he has come to value above all else must be the most devastating sacrifice he has to make.

I remember an ex-boyfriend telling me once that when his father was taken seriously ill, he visited him in hospital having been told there was little hope. He kissed his father and told him he loved him - something he had never done before, but something he felt he had to do because he thought this was the last chance he would have. Of course, the lack of open physical and emotional affection between them had been due to embarrassment, probably on both their parts; for them it was something a father and son just didnt do. It doesnt mean the feelings arent there - they just feel uncomfortable displaying their emotions overtly. Its the prospect of impending loss that prompts otherwise reticent people to say what they really feel, to express their deepest emotions for the comfort of the one departing, whether it be on a long journey or death, or for the sake of those being left behind.

I dont know if Im making much sense here, and I know I dont articulate my thoughts as well as most of you, but what I mean to say is, I think Frodo might tell Sam he loved him in order to ease the pain, to lessen the hurt, for his own sake as well as for Sams. Sam has been the most loyal, trustworthy and devoted friend to Frodo, and since I heard it I think of the I love you as Frodos last chance to tell Sam how he feels about him, to let him know how much he appreciates and values his friendship, and that although hes leaving, his love for Sam will not fade or die; it will carry on, it will survive because it will live in both their hearts, wherever they are. In my mind it is a totally pure love, born out of friendship strengthened by the pain and joy of shared experiences. It is a love not unlike that of my ex boyfriend and his father - something not to be spoken of or displayed normally, but something that naturally comes to the fore in a dire situation.

When it was first mentioned that it looked as though Frodo had whispered something to Sam during their GH hug, it was suggested that perhaps he was saying , I must leave now, but we will meet again. I would be equally happy if that was what he had said, and I would be happy if nothing was said - you're perfectly right serena, the acting is superb - no words needed.
I still hear it!:)

Prim - I'm so sorry you're leaving us. It's a shame your interest in Elijah has waned. I often wonder if the time will come when I lose my fascination with this young actor. It's quite disturbing in a way - but it's been two years now and no signs of disinterest. Although for me Frodo/Frolijah is the main attraction, I do find Elijah totally enigmatic. But I'm happy to hear Narya say there are no plans to merge the threads. I love The Faculty Lounge for it's intelligence and deep and meaningful discussions, research etc. (though I contribute very little, it's this that keeps me coming back) but I do check in at The Hugs Haven too. I hardly ever visit The Harem - I couldn't keep up with those ladies!

Glad to hear you had a good birthday, deluby - sorry I missed it.

Welcome to Sharpe's Girl and Yowser.

Bye.

Elwen

02-02-2004, 04:07 AM

Thanks, Moondancer. Interesting link.

(Except that I can't believe that a sophisticated site like TORN still uses such an impractical messageboard format! :eek: )

I still wonder about the source for this, but it does sound genuine. Well,l I am sure we'll hear a lot about it on the DVD (please?!!! )

ELwen

Moondancer

02-02-2004, 05:40 AM

I'm still fuming a bit over the lack of actor Oscar nominations but I'm glad that some people in the media feel the same way.

This is a good article about it.
I'll give you a couple of snippets and a link to the article:
Source: The Daily Telegraph
No Oscars for the actors of our greatest drama
By Kevin Myers
(Filed: 01/02/2004)

The failure of the final part of the Lord of the Rings trilogy, The Return of the King, to receive a single acting Academy Award nomination is a travesty. At least four of the male actors - Elijah Wood, Sir Ian McKellen, Viggo Mortensen and Bernard Hill - fully deserve Oscars.

Yes, the film has been nominated for 11 other categories, almost as if it's a mere Star Wars with elves. For it has a true greatness which rests on the excellence of the acting as on its other qualities. The absence of even a single acting nomination shows that the academy awards panel has no idea of the monumental importance of this work.
<snip>

Those actors who have been snubbed by the Academy awards might brood crossly on Oscar night, but they shouldn't: for who remembers Oscars? After this film, they can stand tall, for they are now immortal.
If you want to read the entire article, you'll find it here (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=%2Fopinion%2F2004%2F02%2F01%2Fdo0106.xml&secureRefresh=true&_requestid=71002)

Random

02-02-2004, 07:02 AM

From Serena:

So what's the problem with Try17? I think it was the wrong choice for him. He simply doesn't make a convincing gawky teenager; he radiates wisdom and maturity whether he likes it or not. For Frodo that youth, beauty, innocence and wisdom were the perfect combination, but for the gauche Jones it didn't work IMHO. I had the constant feeling EW felt uncomfortable with the role (and his reaction when asked about it recently by a German interviewer speaks volumes; contrast Chain of Fools, which also went straight to video but which Elijah clearly adores). The hairstyle and the clothes in Try17 didn't do much for him either. Some of the screenplay was quirky and original and even moving, but other parts were excruciatingly hackneyed. All in all, I could hardly believe that this was the same guy I'd been worshipping ever since seeing him in LOTR and before that in Forever Young.

Youll forgive me for quoting you lengthily (and making the sotto voce text all big again!) because I also happened to see All I Want (aka Try17) and I didnt like it either and Im glad someone else feels the same. Elijah as well as some of the other actors did their best but (IMHO) the screenplay was so threadbare and full of stupidities and clichés that I was almost angry at the end that the poor lad had to go through it all (as well as me)! I can completely understand why he did it its a pretty good film to do if you want to move from child actor to hey! I can do sex scenes now! proper movie star but eh. Now I sound as if Im being harsh and I dont mean to be. There were some nice bits and I adored the bagels moment (you can put them down anywhere) and Perkins and Potente were great as usual. If I ever get a chance to see Chain of Fools, Ill definitely take it.

Yowser

02-02-2004, 07:39 AM

Are you referring to the scene where Frodo comforts Sam while everything's blowing up around them? I *love* the subtlty of that line and scene, and you're right, it has been changed a bit in order to show that Frodo's focusing his concern on Sam. ....... Do you remember when you ran across that comment?

Shilohmm, I'm sorry I don't recall where I heard/read the writers' comments though it must be after Dec 19 because I remained unspoiled until I saw RotK, hence only started reading magazines and articles afterwards. It might be where Jackson talked about not filming the scouring of the Shire and the article touched upon other minute changes the writers made.

I just saw All I Want over the weekend and reading the above I hadn't realized Jones was supposed to be an awkward teenager, just an odd kid unrecognized by his peers but seen and taken interest by the older crowd, such as the other boarders. At first impression they see him as young but quickly grew to like him because he has odd mixture of maturity, untested wisdom, and williness to learn. Why else would two older women take the same interest in him and the artist take him under his quirky wing? When Jones' mother showed up at his place it suddenly occurred to me that Perkins and Ponte must have been casted due to their similar physical features and why Moore had to be blond. Also, have anyone else noticed that nobody eats food in this film? They are always drinking or shooting alcoholic beverages. Overall I liked this film fine and thought the love and parting scenes of Jones and Jane was excellently done on the actors' part.

tgshaw

02-02-2004, 07:56 AM

Random and Serena (and Yowser in the simulpost :) )--It seems as if Try 17 has been the EJW movie that's had the most disagreement (in this thread) over how good it is--or isn't. So I always find it interesting to read people's thoughts on it. Personally, I could have done without the fantasy scenes, which I thought were trite examples of teenage fantasies. But when Jones was being his real self, I thought he was a good character with several interesting relationships (mother, Brad, Jane, Steve).

originally posted by Lady Wendy
About the thought that Elijah would have made an excellent silent-movie actor - this isn't something I've ever thought about before, but you certainly have a very good point...he is a very facial actor, as we know, and this would have been a godsend in the twenties...
It's also a godsend in the age of screencaps ;) . Sometimes it's frustrating not to be able to "screencap" Elijah's delivery of a line ("I have to go back for Sarah," "Hello," "They're here"), but usually his face and body language tell the most.

And, yes, a beautiful avatar indeed, Lady Wendy. :) ---- To Honey, if EJW appreciation were "squeeage" we'd all be in trouble here :) . One of the things I appreciate about this thread is being able to wallow in said appeciation without worrying about it being misinterpreted as something that it isn't. grandmother!]

-------

Well, yesterday was frustrating. Super Bowl Sunday, which is one of the best days of the year to go to a movie--since almost everyone is watching the game and/or at a party where they're supposedly watching the game ;) . But it was snow and sleet all day here, and even RotK can't get me to drive a 25-mile roundtrip in that :( ! [Although, I must mention to Serena :) that my #5-#6 viewings were back-to-back--I talked about it in the Trilogy forum a couple of weeks ago :) I was so emotionally overloaded at the end of the first viewing that the only way to cope with it was to see it again to let things sink in a bit more, which actually did help.]

So, since I couldn't go to the movie, and I had no interest at all in the football game that was on TV, I spent most of the day playing flag football with Mikey ;) . And I'm still not finished looking at the scene! I should have guessed that Ang Lee wouldn't put a scene into the movie just to show us that Mikey's not much of an athlete. OME, I wish we had a director's commentary for Ice Storm!! I'd love to know if what I'm seeing is anywhere near what he intended :confused: . Anyway, as soon as I have a decent set of screencaps for that, I'll be posting February updates on my website. Also have a bit from the TTT EE.

ainon

02-02-2004, 08:55 AM

(((Blossom))) for sharing re: "I love you". :)

(((Prim))))

We'll all still be here, God willing, for you to lurk with whenever you can. :k And if you feel the need to get things off your chest and list The Little Things I Didn't Like about Try 17 ... ;)

Sigh. I didn't like Try 17 either. Despite having survived the animated movie that shall not be named. In fact I was quite shocked by how much I disliked 'Try 17'. I definitely know that 'My Elijah Obsession is sooo over' feeling you're talking about, serena. :D

I went for a 6th RotK viewing today too. Or 7th. I've lost count. :rolleyes: The show was at 3.10 pm and when I got to the ticket counter at 12.50 pm (after lining up for 15 minutes - today is a public holiday and apparently no one has anything better to do than to go to the multiplex and get in my way) the only seats available were smack in the front row. Something short-circuited in my brain and I actually agreed to the front row seat. My back and neck are still aching, and while watching I had to actually doze off once in a while during non-hobbit scenes to save myself from eye-strain or migraine or worse. :p

When you're that close to the screen, you notice an awful lot about eyes. The prettiest eyes belong to Frodo (d'oh) and Pippin (I'm not saying that just because I swooned hopelessly for him each time). I'm sure Andrew Lesnie had done a fancy amount of digital grading work for all the characters because there were moments when you really can't help but look into the characters' eyes, even when your own eyes and neck are too tired to cope with that amount of looking anymore!

Speaking of which, and although the conversation has moved on, I had to look up Harry's report again and post the pertinent section - after giving Elwen a hug! (((Elwen))) Whoa. You're here! :)

Yet, different from before, there was a new set A cave no a rocky craggy face wet and dank looking, as if formed in the nightmare of ones mind. Lights and track were being laid down, and as I was walking past, one of the crew cried out, "Harry were about to begin shooting here with Elijah."
Sure enough, there was Frodo, ring round that neck of his a greenish cloak and his ever-loving Hobbit feet. They were in the process of putting these contact lenses in for him. The lenses achieve a strange tired look in his eye and are rather thick and milky. Elijah says, "Harry? Is Harry here?"

I respond with an affirmative and he looks straight at me with a confused lost look "I cant see you very well."

<snip inside joke between Harry & EW>

I feel the cloth of his cloak a really nice loose weave very soft My eyes are drawn to the ring. Perhaps because it is the brightest element the only shiny thing about Frodo. Maybe it is because my mind knows what the ring is what it represents and how with it, I could make off with nearly every prop I wants!

This is a little mini-unit today Peter wanted to shoot one last scene with Elijah and this is it. A scene of Frodo facing some rock and turning to look at us. Hidden in shadow. Kinda creepy.

I dont know where this goes but it is one of those pieces that he may or may not use It is up to him and John Gilbert and Jamie Selkirk (the editing team, whoms torture is set to begin in earnest!).

Peter is shooting the scene at 12 frames per second then later at 6 frames per second. This isnt to speed it up, but to add a memory quality to it. For the scene will play at normal speed but with repeated images on 12 fps each frame will be printed twice on 6 fps each frame will be printed thrice.

A lot of us assumed it was CoD but in retrospect it really is so vague as to be anything - but the Ford in FotR. Had to have been somewhere RotK or very late TTT, and while he still had his cloak.

Sharpe's Girl - I remember you too; must be from the Movie Forum. :) Never seen Sean Bean's Sharpe, but a friend is making arrangements so I'll have the opportunity to see at least one episode. Looking forward to that. :D

(((Honey))) Agree with the outcome of your jacket research. And thank you Deluby for posting it! :k

Last thing before I say good night, from TORn -

http://img-nex.theonering.net/images/scrapbook/orig/11932_orig.jpg

Elwen

02-02-2004, 10:24 AM

Good stuff, ainon!
No it can't be the ford, that's clear. I agree that the cloak nearly has to be the Lorian cloak, so it is between Lorien and CU... (right?).

Rockface... could be stairs of CU or Emin Muil, or Henneth Annun, I suppose. I guess we can be pretty certain that this was, well, an 'abandoned concept'. Perhaps we'll hear about it.

Elwen

Achila

02-02-2004, 10:25 AM

Re: All I Want (or Try 17 or whatever you choose to call this one). I hated it the first time I saw it. I thought the plot was weak and ridiculous and I even thought Elijah's acting was bad! But it seemed like every time I turned on the TV, it was on again, and I felt compelled to give it another shot. There are now moments in it that I like very much. It's still not my favorite EJW flick, and never will be, but it's nowhere near as bad as I first thought it was.

One of the scenes I found interesting was the very end, when Jones is riding the motorcycle. Up until that point, he was awkward and uncertain and just young and geeky. But when his bike malfunctions and he gets off and runs to the car, you can immediately see the new confidence in him. A lot of people complained that Elijah was too nerdy for this role but hey kids -- that's acting, because to me, his body language at the end is pure "real life" Elijah -- confident and self-assured. JMHO, of course!

honeyelf

02-02-2004, 11:24 AM

Firstly, there is a very cute vid clip HERE (http://www.techtv.com/screensavers/bitchat/story/0,24330,3483951,00.html) that you should see. Elijah talks about lot's of stuff, but the funniest is the therapeutic effects of yelling "Frodo."

Blossom, (((Blossom))) thanks for 'splaining yourself! :D :D :D Maybe....

I have to speak up as one who loved "All I Want," owns it, and has watched it multiple times. I think I was one of the first saying that Elijah could have been a silent screen star. Perhaps I loved this movie because of my extensive education :rolleyes: in the finer points of Harold Lloyd films. (We live in a town where there is a restored theater where they have "silent" Wednesdays. The theater has a "mighy Wurlitzer" organ!) "AIW/Try 17" reminded me alot of Harold Lloyd films. Just stir in a little sex and some angst.

That is one thing about AIW; it seems to teeter on the brink of being either one thing or another, and I think it would have been safer deciding which to be; comedy or angsty coming of age story. I would have loved it had they gone even further with the fantasy sequences and really went for comedy. Those fantasy sequences really spoke to my husband who said they reminded him of what it was like to be a 17 year old "man", longing to be more experienced, yet a bit tentative about really venturing out into the world.

Regarding Jones Dillon, I didn't see him so much as a nerd as a boy figuring out who he is. One of the more underplayed symbols in the film was Jones standing behind his door looking out through the peephole. He's safe back there behind that door, making up stories and dreaming about finding his dad. But life is on the other side, and we see it streaming through the peephole as a beam of light and falling into his minor swooning ahead beautiful eye.

On the swooning issue, I enjoy being here in the Faculty, but I sense a certain tongue-in-cheek attitude. Elijah is a very fine actor, yet (and I speak only for myself here) he is so subtle at it that I might never have noticed had I not noticed his very lovely face first, and been drawn to spend my movie experiences with him by concentrating on him.

Honey! whohasstoppedmakingsenseandwandersawaymutteringtoherself

Rikka

02-02-2004, 11:31 AM

Oh, dear ladies,
what a hard battle over Try 17! ;) Right you are, tg, this is the main disagreement point here. There are two obvious camps: in one are those who really like the movie (and EW in it): in the other - those who hate it saying they almost stop to like this actor after Try 17... This is so strange! I would like to understand an appropriateness of this liking/disliking matter.

Probably, the reason is in some deep difference in our cinema tastes. LOTR and Frodo's role are so great and outstanding, that they unite all of us around them. But when the movies are not great, but on some medium level these differencies in our tastes start to act.

Personaly I do like Try 17 - this movie seems to me intelligent, elegant and funny. I like this type of humour and this way of telling stories in cinema. Also for me this story is very true to life. While the problems of boys and girls at 17 are slightly different ;) I could recognize myself in Jones. I do believe in him, his acts and reactions, in his world of fantasies, where he escapes from real problems he can not solve. I was very much like Jones when I was in my late teens.

From other side, The Chain of Fools. If other people (clever ones!) like it, than it should have some dignities... That I just unable to see. Because I dislike it strongly. This movie seems weird, strange and boring to me. And not funny at all. The only character who made me laugh there was that little "killer" by EW... But in general I hardly watched The Chain of Fools to the end.

Well, just different tastes..

Here is my list of EW movies:
- The War (good movie, good story and great work by EW! Love it)
- The Ice Storm (wonderful movie and EW in it. Love both)
- The Adventuries of Heck Finn (like the movie and really love EW there)
- Bumblebee Flyes Anyway (good movie and very good EW)
- Good Son (the movie is good while with some strange things in theplot, but I like EW there very much)
- Try 17 (like movie, like EW - nice, very professional work)
- Ash Wednesday (so-so movie, so-so EW, miscast!)
- Chain of Fools (dislike movie very much, but EW is not bad - quite funny, able to play comedy)
- and of course LOTR (no comments ;))

P.S.
Honey, what a nice comment about Jones staying behind the door and just looking at real life through peephole... I also noticed this moment and liked it - a nice little thing, realistic and symbolic at the same time.

tgshaw

02-02-2004, 11:51 AM

Rikka, when I was first hunting the Web trying to find something--anything!--on Chain of Fools, I found the comments people made about it were much as you said. People tended to either love it or hate it (well, strongly dislike, anyway :p ). From the reviews I read, I think it has very much to do with the style of the comedy. It's dark, surreal, and even absurdist (which was explained to me as the type of humor in which the characters do outrageous things, but have no idea that they aren't perfectly normal). IMHO, if someone likes that kind of humor they'll love the movie, because it does it very well. OTOH, if that type of humor turns someone off (as it does a lot of people--not unusual at all), they're not going to like it, which just makes sense. It's definitely not a movie for everyone!!

I'm kind of in the middle, actually, on Try 17. It's not a great movie, and could have been a lot better than it was. OTOH, it did improve for me on repeat viewings, because I did start picking up some subtleties that I hadn't noticed at first.

ainon--thanks for the article. (I'd love to have seen that footage!)

zkgrumpy

02-02-2004, 12:19 PM

Originally posted by Achila
[B]I sometimes wonder if that subtle, internal acting would translate well to the stage, and that maybe it's a good thing he's never explored that medium. Especially if learning to "stage act" would harm what he already does SO well. But I have enough faith in his ability to do both -- Saturday Night Live was a good indication of what he can do in front of an audience.

I wish he *would* do stage acting. I don't think it would wreck anything; it would give his adult acting even more depth than it already has. His technique will have to change as he matures and I think any experience and credentials he gains outside of his current skill set is a plus. I suspect that Billy Boyd, Orlando Bloom, and Dominic M. will be good influences there - hopefully Sir Ian would give him the occasional kick in the behi - er - nudge too. At least I would hope that he takes advantage of an aquaintance with an actor of that caliber.

I don't know about now, but a lot of actors used to take a slow period - like after a major film or TV series - and work in the American Shakespeare Theater in Stratford, Conn. Richard Chamberlain (Oy, am I dating myself!) did that after Dr. Kildare; when I went there on a school trip in 196?, Lillian Gish and Terence Stamp were in the cast of Romeo and Juliet (being a school group, we got the second string cast but Romeo was unbelievably cute!).

We don't have a guild system in the Yewess like there is in GB. There, it seems like the system turns out actors who can perform in just about any venue (which Sir Ian has done). Here, an actor can easily miss out on some facets of the business, and not fill in the missing parts unless he decides to do so. Does anyone remember when Jodie Foster went to Yale? She auditioned for some theater stuff; they let her act but said that she had to learn new techniques, especially with dialog, because she was accustomed to film and stage was quite different.

I think he'd be excellent on stage. It's just another thing to learn and he's certainly capable enough. He's so physically expressive that I think that would translate very well.

:::: thinking hopeful stagey thoughts for The Lad ::::

BTW I'm still reading the books. I got past the Nine-Fingered Frodo and the Ring of Doom (bawled my eyes out, I did). I've skipped ahead, masochist that I am, a bunch of times to the end. Someone here may have said it - don't remember but that could be where the thought came from: Book Frodo had several episodes of illness after they left Minas Tirith. One of those (in March - anniversary of the Shelob sting), Sam was away and Farmer Cotton found Frodo lying on his bed, clutching a white jewel (didn't Arwen give him the Evenstar?) and saying something like "It is gone, and all is empty" or something like that.

He missed the Ring! He was affected in the same way as Gollum. Like Gollum, he was never really free from his need or desire for the Ring, and in vulnerable times like anniversaries, he had trouble with it. Unlike Gollum, who had hope until the end that he could get it back, Frodo had no hope of fulfilling that all-powerful desire. The Ring still had part of his heart and soul. We saw Bilbo affected in the same way despite separation from the Ring - the first thing he asked in the wagon on the way to the :::: sniffle :::: GH was "What happened to that old ring of mine?"

It gives another reason why Frodo couldn't stay in Middle Earth. The only place Bilbo found peace was with the Elves. The Elves were leaving. The only hope that Frodo had for peace was to go with them. I can't help but wonder how long he lived after he left, or if his vision of the grey curtain of rain rolling back, and a green country under a swift sunrise was really when he died.

It's such an incredibly layered story. Every time I watch it; every time I read a portion of it, there's some new layer that I discover.

Oh, dang. There I go again. :::: bawl :::: This has *GOT* to stop!

Re: nudge-nudge-wink-wink when Frodo and Sam held each other on the rock on Mt. Doom: Oh, give me a break (meaning the general public, not the Faculty!). They were *DYING*, for pity's sake!!! It was evident (to me anyway) that they were being overcome by exhaustion or toxic fumes, and losing consciousness. I doubt if they had sex on their minds! (Well, maybe Sam did, thinking about Rosie, and Frodo was in love with the Ring).

EDITED:

A major purpose of this thread has been to have a spot where people can talk about Elijah's career and acting without having to watch people falling to the floor, or listen to a lot of squeeing, or... well, you get the idea . Not that there's anything wrong with people falling to the floor or squeeing or whatever... but, well, okay... 'nuff said? (((new folks))) (((Prim))) (((all us old folks)))

Gee whillikers! I only thudded as a response to those pictures on The Lad's birthday! What the heck was I supposed to do? I think Elijah is absolutely adorable and phenomenally talented, but I do not lust after the kid. That would feel too much like incest :::: squick ::::. Maybe visual representations of his qualities should also be relegated to the Farum or Harem or Drool Spot? I'm here for some relatively intelligent discussion, myself, though I have no objection to being reminded of physical beauty.

~grumpyandfeelingpickedonandlikeElijah'sAuntMillieatthesametime (no 12-step programs in Middle Earth for Ring addiction)(No 12-step programs in the US for LotR addiction)(Where are those darned Elves when I need them?)

erendis

02-02-2004, 01:04 PM

Hmm, well, now we have a third videotape to add the to wishlist of "Videos that will never see the light of day." Elijah Wood's original Frodo audition tape. PJ's "documentary" tape that he showed to prospective studio heads after Miramax threw him out. Video of the hobbits crying over rough-cut of RotK without SFX.The last one is interesting. In fact, it's nearly impossible. To hear the people in Hollywood tell it, the rough cut of RotK without SFX would be 3 hours and 20 minutes of black screen. Why the heck would the hobbits be crying over that? ;)

Rikka

02-02-2004, 01:19 PM

Originally posted by tgshaw
Chain of Fools, I found the comments people made about it were much as you said. People tended to either love it or hate it (...) I think it has very much to do with the style of the comedy. It's dark, surreal, and even absurdist
Thanks for this explanation, tg. Yeah, I think you are right at this point. I ever disliked absurdist style - in theatre or in cinema. This is just not mine. Then I studied drama and theater in my youth "Waiting to Godot" type of plays were a nightmare for me...:D

Speaking about Try 17... May be I got a lot of subtleties and nuances of this story from the first viewing in a theatre just because I love this type of subtle stories and got used to pick up such things. I remember that me and my friend laughed alot at our first viewing of T17... Well, we both are the ladies about 40... By the way, the son of my friend (the boy of 15) likes this movie very much, too - already watched it on DVD 4 or 5 times! And her hubby (also about 40) also likes it - he said Jones's story makes him recall his 17...

Achila

02-02-2004, 01:46 PM

erendis, your number one "never see the light of day" just might happen -- I've heard that there's talk of putting that on the ROTK EE DVD.

Yowser

02-02-2004, 02:04 PM

Speaking about Try 17... the son of my friend (the boy of 15) likes this movie very much, too - already watched it on DVD 4 or 5 times! And her hubby (also about 40) also likes it - he said Jones's story makes him recall his 17...
Well this might explain why my boyfriend's brother "accidentally" took the disc home with him, it's a rental so I *got* to get it back. Personally I liked it in part that Elijahs Jones reminds me nothing of Frodo, just an odd kid out of place and out of touch until his epiphany about his father.

My mom is visiting from abroad so I had to explain what happened since FotR. She distinctly remember the two old men beating the crap out of each other, just like she remembers Elijah from The Good Son where he and the "bad cousin" beat the crap of each other. Funny what people remember from movies of years past.

As a former Homicide: Life on the Street addict, I distinctly remember when Elijah was being previewed for next weeks episode with the announcer going Elijah Wood as you never seen him! and me thinking at the time, gads, what a cheesy line, ha! Turns out Elijah played a very convincing sociopath and never did the word good cousin cross my mind. I'll never forget the scene when the two detectives first meet McPhee and Elijah played him cool, confident, and a touch of swarm to the hilt. None of that scenery chewing that lesser actors frequently employ to portray a "smart" bad guy.

My Law & Order fantasy is for Elijahs McPhee to show up in NYC in time for a body to be discovered by the detectives, Munch temporarily leaving SVU to convince the homicide detectives that McPhee is the culprit, and for Bayliss to be the episodes twist as McPhees new stepfather (Secor and the actress that played McPhees mother had good chemistry). Never going to happen though. Oh well I can dream.

hobbityme

02-02-2004, 02:12 PM

Wow, it seems like ages since I was here last. RL has finally caught up and I have tons of papers to do and lots of Faculty reading as well ;)

Since the discussion seems to revolve around Try Seventeen at the moment, I will say that I am one of those fans who liked this movie.

Apart from the fact that it was shot in Vancouver, where I live, and that the school in the beginning where Jones finds himself is the University of British Columbia, the school I go to, it was a good, clean, neat little movie. (Hehe... walking the same pavements and going into the same buildings just isn't the same knowing who stepped there.)

However, I do believe I'm a bit biased because I grew this affection for the movie when I visited the set and actually met him in a hockey game so when I popped in the DVD, maybe I was a little less objective.

BUT that aside, I think that it is considerably more intelligent and thoughtful than all the teen movies that all my friends divulge themselves in. It was witty at times, and touching at others. I don't think Elijah's acting was at all bad... but if you compared it to LOTR, it obviously isn't in the same league for well, obvious reasons. The role, first of all, was much simpler and the story really is one of those where nothing seems to happen, but in the end, you find yourself at a different place. I do agree that the fantasy sequences were over the top but also have to admit that they were fun.

It's too bad if some fans may have lost interest in Elijah after seeing this movie but I just want to say (I think I've mentioned it before), that a friend of mine caught a pre-screening of Eternal Sunshine in New York and he absolutely loved it. When he mentioned Elijah (and this guy always teases me about being an Elijah fan), he honestly admitted that the guy can act. So... I think that if anything, I will say that Ash Wednesday and Try Seventeen (my preferred title), were his adjustment movies after doing something as massive as Lord of the Rings for a long period of time. I am so looking forward to Eternal Sunshine and Hooligans. Actually, Happy Feet as well, knowing the names attached to it (Robin Williams, Nicole Kidman, Brittany Murphy) and George Miller being the director and all...

Before I end my message, I wholeheartedly agree with many of you that I LOVE the Faculty Lounge. It's really the only place I've been to that mostly discusses Elijah's ACTING and TALENT rather than his various body parts. People have always assumed that I was a silly fangirl when I told them I liked Elijah. I guess it's the normal assumption that people my age only form an interest in actors if we fancy their looks... Although that may be true to a certain extent, I certainly am an Elijah fan first and foremost because he moves me when he's on the silver screen and I find his personality quite disarming.

whiteling

02-02-2004, 04:01 PM

Oh, Rikka, I can very well imagine that one cannot find "Chain of Fools" funny at all! It's actually a very special kind of humour and IMHO humour is even more a matter of personal preferences than common understanding of tragedy, for instance.

I can't deem of Try 17, as I haven't seen it so far, but I'm curious not only about Elijah but about Franka Potente as well (sort of local patriotism, I guess ;) ). I've seen her in her first "bigger" German movie "Nach Fünf im Urwald" ("After five o'clock in Jungle") from 1995, liked her and following her career since then.

Here's my little Elijah film list:

- The Adventures of Huck Finn (wonderful classical story, Elijah very cute and funny)
- Forever Young (somewhat odd storywise, very funny and charming Elijah)
- The Good Son (psychologically not really convincing, strong and convincing performance of Elijah)
- The War (moving story, great acting of Elijah)
- Flipper (story??? - nice to see Elijah swimming with the dolphin)
- Deep Impact (story absolutely not my cup of tea, Elijah's acting therefore seemed pale to me)
- The Ice Storm (great story, excellent character portrayals, Elijah's acting simply brilliant)
- Chain of Fools (story hilarious, Elijah really touching and funny)
- The Faculty (if story is not taken too serious, it's very funny, Elijah is convincing)

Blossom, thanks so much for sharing the touching story of your friend. Very moving! :k

Prim, I hope, you'll find the time to visit The Faculty now and then :) !

Hobmom

02-02-2004, 04:09 PM

Yowzer! You have the same Law and Order fantasy Elijah episode I have!

Maybe you should send that suggestion to NBC. Sounds like a fantastic episode for May sweeps! And with Elijah living in NY I bet he'd love to be a guest villain on NYC's favorite TV show.

I've been hoping he would get asked to be on one of the shows. The Return of McPhee! Yes! That would be fantastic!

erendis

02-02-2004, 04:11 PM

Originally posted by hobbityme
However, I do believe I'm a bit biased because I grew this affection for the movie when I visited the set and actually met him in a hockey game so when I popped in the DVD, maybe I was a little less objective.
You're not...um..Franka Potente, are you? ;)

hobbityme

02-02-2004, 04:51 PM

erendis... no... unfortunately :D

But, it was a Canucks game and Franka Potente was nowhere to be found that night. He was actually in attendance with Mandy Moore who played Lisa in Try Seventeen.

While I'm posting, here's a little tidbit that may find you all on your knees, bowing to his majesty Harry Knowles of AICN:

"I remember, I was sitting on the steps of THE FACULTYs set where Elijah is going to be running from Robert Patrick. There was a break in shooting, because as Robert was running with the steadi-cam, he slipped and fell and they were checking all the equipment out. Elijah joined me on the steps and asked how things were going. It was mid-afternoon and I told him that I had spoken on the phone with Peter Jackson that day. That Peter was going to try and make THE LORD OF THE RINGS. Elijah had never read that book, but he had read the Hobbit, and loved that. Thats when I looked at him and told him he would be perfect to play Frodo.

There he is. He is Frodo Baggins. After all these years, all this time, there is my friend. The guy I ate bar-b-que and screened 16mm films in the backyard with... And he is Frodo Baggins. Is this pride? Satisfaction? It just felt perfect, as if this was how things were meant to be. How they should be. And you know. That memory is really quite old now. Elijah was literally just a kid then. Now hes Frodo. "

Alyon

02-02-2004, 05:01 PM

A quick jump into the Faculty, and a quick jump out.

Moondancer, thank you for the quote by Kevin Mery regarding the lack of acting nominations. It's about time someone started making noise about it (besides us).

Blossom. I hear the whisper, but didn't make it out. But I can believe it to be there. Hey if Peter Jackson inserts his own cameo in the movie, he might leave some other special messages in the sound. I like your explanation. When people say goodbye, the words are nice to hear. And if it is the actors saying it to each other and their charactors--then the more power to them. The feelings are real--it's brave and real to be able to speak them--even if buried in the sound. If there, I'm sure it helped the actors in the moment to say them. Not all of the scenes went through ADR (I heard)--maybe this one didn't. And Peter could have directed Elijah to say it without telling Sean, to get a real good reaction shot out of Sean/Sam.

All I Want is the topic again. I fall in the I don't like it camp. The script was lame, in my opinion. I'd like to excuse the actors because they had to work with the script--but Ainon :k won't let me get away with that!!!

I'm intrigued that Charlie Hunnam (do I have his name right? I know who he is, though) will be working with Elijah in Hooligans. Seems like an interesting pair.

EDIT: just read your quote from Harry Knowles, Hobbityme. LOVELY!!

hobbityme

02-02-2004, 05:06 PM

Okay, while I'm at it, here are some links to reports by Harry when he visited New Zealand:

**link removed**

Specifically this one:
**link removed**

I'm going home in an hour to bask in "The War" which is playing at WGN if anyone has that channel!

deluby

02-02-2004, 05:29 PM

From today's Hollywood Reporter:
http://img1.photobucket.com/albums/v40/deluby/FYC3.jpg

:k

Maeglian

02-02-2004, 05:40 PM

from Elwen
No it can't be the ford, that's clear. I agree that the cloak nearly has to be the Lorian cloak. The description of the cloak actually fits Frodo's green Shire cloak very well, so on a stand-alone basis the quote could refer to that. The problem is the Ring around his neck, I guess; - which at least means the scene is post-Rivendell.

Thanks for digging out the AICN quote and re-posting, ainon.

From Erendis
To hear the people in Hollywood tell it, the rough cut of RotK without SFX would be 3 hours and 20 minutes of black screen. Why the heck would the hobbits be crying over that?I was thinking *exactly* the same thing when I first read that story over at Torn! Although the hobbits may well not be the most unbiased audience around, still, their emotional reaction is a testament to the strength and impact of the *acting*. In fact, the more I mull it over, the more disappointed and incredulous I am that there were no Oscar acting nominations. Elijah *so* deserved that! As did several other cast members.

I had the opportunity to see RotK again, and a couple of small favourite moments made an even stronger impression. I'd like to talk some more of those, but no time now.

I'll just briefly say that I'm another one who didn't much like Try 17. I didn't think it especially bad, certainly not especially good; - mostly I thought it was quite indifferent. It didn't leave me thinking, it didn't make me want to see it again at all. Which is strange given the strength of several, if not the whole, cast.

Edit: Deluby! Ooooooh! What a *lovely* FYC poster! Thank you! :) I see it uses the original book quote, not the film's "glad to be here with you, Samwise...."

Narya Celebrian

02-02-2004, 06:29 PM

Hobbityme, I had to remove your links. Harry's site doesn't meet the PG-13 guidelines for KD because of strong language, both in his reports and the comments section. You can take excerpts from his reports and post them here (as long as they don't contain said strong language ;) ), and credit Harry Knowles, you just can't link directly to them or give directions to his site in your posts.

Most people do know how to find his site, and you can offer to direct people there by PM if there is a whole report you want people to see - all KD asks is that even in PM's you don't give non PG-13 links to people you know are underage.

:k :k

serena

02-02-2004, 06:31 PM

OMG, there have been half a dozen fascinating posts since I started writing this!

Hobbityme, you are quite sure you're not Franka, aren't you? :DPutting this in small print because it's absolutely not Faculty material [Prim, if you're reading this, stop now!]. My personal theory is that F did not ditch E as is often assumed. Will expand on this in the Hugs Haven .... maybe.

Seriously, though: (((Moondancer))), thank you thank you for that Daily Telegraph article! I can't tell you how deliriously happy it makes me :). Kevin Myers is a courageous guy - IMHO he deserves a knighthood for coming out and saying all that. I'm going to write and tell him so. Has New Line seen the article, I wonder? Or PJ? Or TORN? (It definitely should be there - I'll email them if that's OK with you.) Will Elijah get to see it? (He sometimes reads TORN, so the chances are he will if we send it there.) I've already emailed it to certain - ahem - friends of mine who ought to see it and be forced to digest the fact that here is a highly erudite male reviewer who names ELIJAH as the first and foremost Oscar-deserving actor. More about that in a later post.

from Hobbityme:
I think that it (Try17) is considerably more intelligent and thoughtful than all the teen movies that all my friends divulge themselves in. It was witty at times, and touching at others.

True, true! It's just that I - gulp - don't think it suited Elijah. I could imagine other actors fitting the role better. And that's not even a criticism of Elijah's acting. How to explain? He just looked as if he'd wandered onto the wrong movie set ....

And thanks for the Harry quote! I have it somewhere on my PC but hadn't read it for ages. I love Harry Knowles.

Blossom, thank you for that moving explanation.

Deluby, thank you for that stunning poster.

I would so love to see that Homicide episode! Maybe that will all be put on DVD some day ...
from zkgrumpy:
He missed the Ring! He was affected in the same way as Gollum. Like Gollum, he was never really free from his need or desire for the Ring, and in vulnerable times like anniversaries, he had trouble with it. Unlike Gollum, who had hope until the end that he could get it back, Frodo had no hope of fulfilling that all-powerful desire. The Ring still had part of his heart and soul. We saw Bilbo affected in the same way despite separation from the Ring - the first thing he asked in the wagon on the way to the :::: sniffle :::: GH was "What happened to that old ring of mine?"
zkgrumpy, thank you for explaining that! I haven't yet read the book (but I will - I promise) and that aspect had escaped me. It sounds so like one of those poisonous love/hate relationships - someone you can't live with and can't live without, ever, because both of those tear you apart and will do so for the rest of your life. Poor Frodo. It makes me cry just thinking about it.
Was Tolkien basing that on his war experiences - the fact that some people became addicted to the very conflict that had nearly killed them? The bejewelled snake, the Delilah, the worm at the heart of the sick rose ....?

Funny - that scene with Bilbo is the only one where I noticed the French subtitles had got it wrong. For "I'm sorry, Uncle - I'm afraid I lost it" the subtitles said "... je l'ai perdu, je crains", which means "... I fear I've lost it" (i.e. Frodo is not quite sure whether he's lost it or not!). Wonder if they took that from the French translation of the book?

["Stealing Beauty" with Liv Tyler, ravishing in more than one sense, has just finished on TV. First film apart from LOTR I've ever seen her in. Prefer her role in this one, actually!]
[Oh, and SeanBean was being Vronsky in "Anna Karenina" on Sunday, Sharpe's Girl. Hope you've seen that. Sophie Marceau as Anna.]
End of OT asides .....

Dangermouse

02-02-2004, 06:54 PM

This thread is almost impossible to keep up with...

I saw "Try 17" as well and was left very cold by it (though not enough to warrant the comment by the clerk when I was getting it, that he couldn't see the need of theft devises on it, since no one would want the movie).

The beginning was quite good, but the story degenerated from there. I was pretty bored by it all: the movie couldn't decide what it wanted to be: a coming of age story, a funny adolescent comedy, a movie about quirky people, a family drama (the earlier mother-son stuff reminded me a bit of "Igby Goes Down," a brilliant movie). In the end it ended up being neither, really.

And no, not even EW could save it. It could have been the fault of the director, it could have been the fault of the script (which IMO gave him almost nothing to work with), but Jones left no impression on me whatsoever.

Elijah is an actor of silences. I found that his silences as Frodo (notice how little he says in ROTK) or as Barney Snow in BFA, spoke volumes to me, moved me, made words unnecessary. But whenever Jones was silent, I didn't get this feeling of unplumbed depths at all. All I got was "blah..."

I do agree with everyone that he would have made a great silent actor (though I don't think he has the smooth required "look" of a Valentino or John Gilbert). I found that silent movies, when done right, have a visceral power of images that most sound movies just don't (LOTR being a big exception). I keep thinking of movies like "Crowd" or "Sunrise" or "Big Parade" or "Broken Blossoms" or "Seventh Heaven." The super-saturated yet subtle feel they have: LOTR reminds me of that. I am still amazed how EW manages to remain both uber-expressive and subtle at the same time. No mugging of any kind, no overacting of Frodo's pain and disintegration. It would have been so easy...

I saw ROTK for the 6th time yesterday. It's just as powerful as ever, but different things moved me this time. The Frodo image that sticks with me this time, is Frodo at the Cracks of Doom, eyes impossibly blue, fighting a losing battle with the Ring, tears making his eyes even more brilliant: the only non red or gold tones in the whole place.

tgshaw

02-02-2004, 07:55 PM

Originally posted by Maeglian
...I see it uses the original book quote, not the film's "glad to be here with you, Samwise...."
Especially interesting that it's used in the "best adapted screenplay" ad ;) . (But, yes, it is lovely--thanks deluby :) .)

Very, very tempting to get into the conversation about Frodo's post-quest problems. (I'm never tempted to swoon over Elijah, but give me a whiff of the book and I'm on the floor :p ). There are some good threads over in the Trilogy forum about it--but it's probably better to finish reading the book first, as the conversation does a lot of comparing the movie and the book. Sounds as if you're about finished, grumpy--yes?

It was nice to bring back some memories of the line of "coincidence if coincidence you call it" events that led to Elijah being cast as Frodo. Harry Knowles was, indeed, the one who started everything--consciously, at least. Robert Rodriguez should probably get some kind of honorable mention for deciding to shoot The Faculty in Austin, Texas. Harry lives in Austin, and I'm guessing Rodriguez knows him because Harry has a bit part in the movie. He even has a line, so shows up in the credits as--in a brilliant piece of casting :p --Mr. Knowles. Salma Hayek's character calls him "Harry," so I guess he didn't have to take on a new persona ;) :

http://www.imagemagician.com/images/tgshaw/Previous movies/capA3007-small.jpg

(Had to put that one in to show his gorgeous hair :) .)

http://www.imagemagician.com/images/tgshaw/Previous movies/capA3017-small.jpg

It's not hard to see why I always get a chuckle out of that story about the contact lenses. If you have to recognize Harry Knowles by voice, your eyesight's really bad :) !

So the "coincidences" start out with Elijah making a movie in Austin, Texas (not exactly a hotbed of the motion picture industry), which just happens to be where Harry lives, who just happened to have a small part in the movie--and, BTW, who just happened to know Elijah and had just happened to talk to PJ on the phone that day about his upcoming LotR project.

So Elijah's interested, goes to quite a bit of trouble to make that audition tape we all want to see, and sends it off to PJ. But PJ has made a firm decision that he wants to find an unknown Brit to play Frodo. He's auditioned at least a couple hundred unknown Brits, without finding what he's looking for. He knows that Frodo has to have "magic" (PJ's word).

Elijah's audition tape gets delivered. PJ isn't even going to watch it, because it's from an American and he's still set on having a British actor in the part.

But Fran Walsh just happened to have seen The Ice Storm and told PJ he should watch the tape because Elijah has "an interesting face" (must be all that asymmetry :p). So PJ watched the tape, found the "magic" he'd been looking for, and Frodo lives!

But, of course, this was all through sheer coincidence :rolleyes: . How the movies themselves got made is even better. :)

honeyelf

02-03-2004, 01:07 AM

Deluby, that FYC add is gourgeous! Thanks for posting it.

Kind of an aside really, but there is a really cool article on TORN talking about women as fans of the LoTR movies. You can read it HERE. (http://www.theonering.net/scrapbook/group/1302)

me

Moondancer

02-03-2004, 04:07 AM

Well, I finally bought the ROTK's cd.
I have the FOTR music on minidisc and I listen to it a lot. So, I decided to use my birthday gift certificate for the soundtrack of The Return Of The King.
What an amazing thing of beauty. I have to listen to it a couple of times to really take it all in...it still has to sink in.
Listening to soundtracks are an interaction between the melody, the movie images and... your own imagination that gets triggered by the first two elements.
Billy Boyd's song for Denethor is fantastic. I listened to it in the dark and the images of Faramir going to a lost battle and Frodo clawing his way to Mordor came flooding in, together with Pippin's facial expressions during and after that song in the movie.
It was almost too much to take in at once (sounding a bit melodramatic here but it's true).
I love the voice of Annie Lennox and combined with the Grey Havens scene, well, the effect on me is beyond words.
My mum died 4 years ago (februari 1) after a long battle, so she was a lot on my mind this weekend and this Grey Havens scene, together with the beautiful lyrics, melody and voice of Annie Lennox is very powerful.
Too much to take in at once...must listen to it again very soon.

It also made me think of a couple of my favourite, but heart-wrenching scenes.
* Shelob's lair, when Frodo is captured in Shelob's net and he desperatelly tries to liberate himself with Sting. The despair of this scene is tremendous. The panic on that face, the danger of Shelob closing in on him, the willpower to set himself free and to get away from her,...
* The "I'm naked in the dark" scene. The actors have been talking about the ringbearers behaving like addicts. There is also this internal fight between good and bad, weak and strong in addiction. The longer the addiction lasts, the deeper it gets, the more it devowers you. When the addiction gets to a certain level, it starts to take over. You begin losing your grip on your RL. The addiction has taken over the core of you.
I've only seen one person I love dearly get taken over by an evil addiction. The point of no return is awful to watch and there's not much you can do, but be there for that person (even if it's a very hard thing to do - the tough addicts are too far gone and don't let anybody come between them and their addiction - it's painful to watch).
[I hope you can understand my ramblings]
To get back to Frodo and this 'naked in the dark' scene. When I watched it on the big screen. I almost felt a lightning bolt (or...how I imagine this would feel like). It hit me how far Frodo had gone, how much this ring was eating him, taking hold of dear Frodo and how much he realised what it was doing to him. Also like addicts: they know what it's doing to them but - in a lot of cases - they can't help themselves.
The comparison with addiction is not 100% accurate, though. Frodo carries the ring to save the Shire - a very positive initial motivation (external reason). Most drug addicts start using the drug (or alcohol,...) out of a very negative initial motiviation; to forget painful events, to forget themselves, to numb pain,...(internal motivation)

To return on topic (Try 17/All I want). I'll be getting to movie in march (I think). I'm trying to skip the spoilers but some of the posts I couldn't help reading are interesting. I wonder which side I'll be on (the pro or the contra side). But, judging on the reactions, I won't be expecting too much of it and I hope to just enjoy the movie for what it is.

PS thanks for the poster, deluby. :)

serena

02-03-2004, 07:49 AM

So Kevin Myers's article is now on TORN. If that was down to one of you, thanks! I've sent a letter to the editor of the DT saying this (excuse the formality, but that's the house style):

Sir - I wish to salute the candour, the insight, the eloquence and above all the courage of Kevin Myers's article (Opinion, Feb 1) "No Oscars for the actors of our greatest drama". Mr Myers has displayed a level of recognition of the historic significance of the "Lord of the Rings" film trilogy which, probably out of the fear of ridicule Mr Myers himself mentions, is at present almost never voiced elsewhere, but surely will be in the future. He also rightly pays tribute to the achievements of the magnificent actors who brought to life some of the best-known characters in literature, sometimes in the face of totally unwarranted and ill-informed criticism before shooting had even begun. That they should be overlooked by the Academy Awards panel is scandalous. The only possible excuse for this is the difficulty and potential unfairness of singling out individuals from this astonishing ensemble cast. The Academy should have had the foresight to add an "ensemble acting" category to the Oscar awards for the sake of this trilogy alone. Failing that, it should have honoured the leading actor, Elijah Wood, for his incomparable performance in all three films.

Dunno if they'll run it - we'll see.

Tg, when you saw ROTK twice back-to-back (sorry, I'd overlooked that in the mountain of riveting posts), did you find your concentration flagging the second time? I surely did - but it gave me an opportunity to take note of things that I might otherwise miss by being too Frodo-centric. And I did giggle both times at Orlando's rather sheepish delivery of the immortal line "A red sun rises in the East: a sleepless malice!" (if I've got that right). Must have been one of the hardest things ever to say with a straight face. And wearing that hood into the bargain! Talk about Pythonesque ... But then there has to be something cringeworthy to offset the relentless magic of the rest of the film.

Post-quest Frodo: looking forward to some discussions of eternal Ring addiction (parallels there with our own Rings addiction?). No, I agree it's not like drug addiction, Moondancer; I felt it was more like war addiction, which is a real phenomenon, sad to say. Some believe that wars begin only because people (usually male people) become bored with peace. There's more to it than that, of course, but addiction to war and the power that goes with it is nonetheless a major factor. (I'm not at all suggesting Frodo is a warmonger, btw; quite the reverse. He's fighting the addiction with all his strength.)

from Dangermouse:
And no, not even EW could save it. It could have been the fault of the director, it could have been the fault of the script (which IMO gave him almost nothing to work with), but Jones left no impression on me whatsoever ..... whenever Jones was silent, I didn't get this feeling of unplumbed depths at all. All I got was "blah..."

Yep, he left no impression on me either. I felt that Elijah's heart was not in it/him, probably because, as you rightly say, he had next to nothing to work with. Jones was a stereotype, but a hollow one. And Elijah wasn't even the right actor for that stereotype.
Which begs the question of why he took on the project. I suspect there was simply a shortage of decent roles for him at the time. As we know, he is a very unusual person and actor and will simply not fit many of the standard Hollywood lead roles. I'd love to see him do some (more) European or European-style films (which tend to feature less "heroic" characters - not that Jones is heroic - you know what I mean), drama documentaries and even period drama. And comedy, of course.

OK, back to the coal face.

Achila

02-03-2004, 08:15 AM

A discussion of what roles we'd like to see Lij do is interesting, especially since we know him and his ability well. I personally think his looks would be well suited for "costume dramas" -- i.e., films that are not set in modern times, because of his classical features that often don't look contemporary. After all, Girl With a Pearl Earring was about Vermeer -- we need a movie about Caravaggio!

If Frodo is any indication, he can also do accents very well (although Dodger's accent could've been better -- can't win 'em all -- I put that one down to the broad, Disney-ification of the film). In fact, there were many English people I've encountered these last few years who had never seen Lij before LOTR and thought he was a Brit. And you know -- if he, in fact, does play Einstein, he'll have to do a German accent, and that will be "verrry interesting"....

tgshaw

02-03-2004, 08:20 AM

Wonderful, eloquent letter, serena--IMVHO it's so important to send letters when we're happy with something, and not just when we're upset. :)
Originally posted by serena
Tg, when you saw ROTK twice back-to-back (sorry, I'd overlooked that in the mountain of riveting posts), did you find your concentration flagging the second time?
Well, if this is the only thread you read, you wouldn't have seen it--because I posted it in the Trilogy/RotK forum. I asks, and if that's not enough, I begs ;) that some of the wonderful stuff that's being said about RotK here get posted over in the movie forum so people who don't visit the Community Cafe can read it. If you don't know where to start, try following the link in Narya's sig :) .

That includes discussion on addiction, and Frodo's post-quest difficulties, etc. There are already a couple of threads where that could fit, and a new one can always be started. A lot of it could even fit into Hobmom's Frodo thread in the Green Dragon, but those who haven't read the book yet may not want to see all the book spoilers they'd run into there.

I'll admit this request is mostly selfish on my part :o . I really want to talk about this stuff, but just don't feel right adding to a discussion of it here (unless it's specifically about how Elijah brings it to life), as it could get so far off-topic.

Ooops--I got a bit off-topic there :rolleyes: . To get back to serena's question--My concentration didn't flag (except maybe in a couple of scenes I wasn't as interested in--but I honestly don't even remember that happening). What did happen was that things didn't hit me as much emotionally the second time. But that was exactly the effect I was hoping for--I was in such an emotional state at the end of the first viewing that I did the second to let things soak in and calm down, and it did work. (For the next few days, my middle-aged back reminded me why I'm glad I don't have to sit motionless at my desk all day at work :eek: !)

Which begs the question of why he took on the project. I suspect there was simply a shortage of decent roles for him at the time.
I have the same suspicion. He can't use that "excuse" anymore, because he's said he gets lots of scripts now and is very "picky" about what he accepts. But at the time he did Try 17, he'd finished principle filming on LotR but FotR hadn't been released yet, so he was still fairly "unknown," and probably more actively looking for parts. And we know he's an actor who likes to be busy working. (He also takes some roles specifically because he thinks he can learn something from them, or the director is someone he particularly wants to work with, but I haven't heard him make any specific comments about Try 17 in that regard--I wouldn't be surprised if that's part of the reason he took the ESOTSM role, though.)

Edit after reading Achila's post: I think the remarks that make me most proud of Elijah (Well, I'm an honorary aunt so I can be proud of him :p ) are the ones that compliment his accent in LotR--including some from Brits who thought he was British, as Achila said. So much of his acting is natural--not to say he doesn't put a lot of effort into making it the best it can be, but he has a huge natural gift to build on. OTOH, accents are something he has to work at, at least as much as other actors. As in everything else, LotR used the best dialect coaches available, and they really worked at it. I think the only time I've ever seen Elijah uncomfortable about being on camera was when a session with the dialect coach was being filmed, and he actually threw something over the camera lens. But, yes, he certainly can do it. And I hope he's a bit proud of himself when he reads the comments about his LotR accent, :) because it was something that took a lot of hard work.

ainon

02-03-2004, 08:44 AM

deluby - that poster is beautiful. :k

The tech TV video played for me - a site that offers streaming for 56 K modems! Thank you for the link, Honey. Ah, some sites do still have compassion for their users. Although the video wasn't exactly streaming. :p At least I had sound.

A McPhee reappearance on 'Law & Order' would be terrific. Elijah was great in that ep; makes me wish he had done a few more guest eps in other shows too. Kinda cool to know that the announcer back then was announcing it as the ep where the audience gets Elijah Wood as you never seen him! Cheesy, yeah, but hey - he was famous enough to be mentioned by name! ;)

Originally posted by Maeglian

The description of the cloak actually fits Frodo's green Shire cloak very well, so on a stand-alone basis the quote could refer to that. The problem is the Ring around his neck, I guess; - which at least means the scene is post-Rivendell.

The colour of costumes in real life may or may not be the same as what we see on screen - at least that's what I learned from watching Making-of specials of another movie. Or maybe Harry's definition of 'green' covers a broader spectrum, especially if the lights on set gave the cloak a greenish hue. Oh well. So we've narrowed it down to anytime after Rivendell but before Lothlorien (the Mines of Moria? :confused: ) during which time Frodo shouldn't be turning on the spookymoves yet, or anytime after Lothlorien wherever we get some rocky craggy wall for Frodo to walk up to and then do a turnaround spookymood shot. Don't suppose Harry could re-clarify these things. :D

tg - LOL, well, well, Harry a-visiting in our Faculty. I missed your post last night (a case of writing off line, posting and then logging off again ASAP) but I wanted to say that it looks like February updates are gonna be very interesting. :) Mikey and the ball! :D Btw, cool to see AnimeFrodo back.

Originally posted by serena
- 'bout 'Try 17'

True, true! It's just that I - gulp - don't think it suited Elijah. I could imagine other actors fitting the role better. And that's not even a criticism of Elijah's acting. How to explain? He just looked as if he'd wandered onto the wrong movie set ....

That was my exact same opinion, serena. Hence my saying at the time I'd probably have preferred Adam Sandler or one of his ilk in that role. :p

End 'bout 'Try 17'

serena, great letter!

As for the addiction theme, Andy Serkis uses it for his character, and Fran Walsh talked about it in the DVD commentary, but Elijah doesn't seem to use that metaphor for Frodo.

Moondancer, darn it. I guess it's too late now to start marking all 'Try 17' comments. :eek:

edit to add:

From Newsweek, posted at TORn.

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4113619/

It's revealing and highly unusual that three of the movies nominated last week for a best-picture OscarGary Ross's "Seabiscuit," Jackson's "Return of the King" and Peter Weir's "Master and Commander"didn't receive a single acting nomination. All three movies had sterling casts, but the message was clear. Directors have become the ultimate stars.

whiteling

02-03-2004, 09:09 AM

Originally posted by Achila
And you know -- if he, in fact, does play Einstein, he'll have to do a German accent, and that will be "verrry interesting"....

Well, I volunteerrr forrr coaching Elijah's Gerrrman accent. Someone has to do it, rrright? :D

Serena, your letter - well done!

Achila

02-03-2004, 09:48 AM

Originally posted by tg shaw

(He also takes some roles specifically because he thinks he can learn something from them, or the director is someone he particularly wants to work with, but I haven't heard him make any specific comments about Try 17 in that regard--I wouldn't be surprised if that's part of the reason he took the ESOTSM role, though.)

ESOTSM was directed by Michel Gondry, who directed (and gosh, now I don't remember which) either a White Stripes or Strokes video that Lij really loved (someone here will know, I'm sure). So I'll bet that was a big part of the motivation. Plus, it has a weird Charlie Kaufman script that was right up Lij's street. Add to it Kate Winslet and Jim Carrey and you have a veritible Elijah home run.

Yowser

02-03-2004, 10:25 AM

Hey Hobmom! What is it about Elijah's McPhee that we want to see again? I mean McPhee is the reason why capital punishment must still exist. Maybe I actually will write to NBC with that suggestion. Might be tricky since last we saw of McPhee he confessed to killing the kid and plotting to have his mother murdered. Since his character was under 18 and his mother, being a judge, was adamant about keeping him out of prison he could very well be back into society before long. Now for Bayliss the last we saw of him he confessed to going vigilante on a man who killed women on the internet, and it was assumed that his partner turned him in. But his lawyer can claim temporarily insanity and McPhee's mother can help him beat the system. Bayliss had a soft spot for the judge since she was willing to do anything to protect/help her son, something his own parents never did, which is why I envisioned those two together despite the fact that Bayliss was the one who arrested McPhee.

Confession time: when the announcer did the Elijah Wood as you never seen him part when previewing next week's episode, I cringed massively because I thought it would be another former child actor trying desperately to shed the sweet boy image to prove that he can act, by golly! Though I knew at the time Elijah was an unusally talented young actor, I thought for sure he would be another Hollywood casualty and we would never see him again as a grown-up actor. Then his McPhee really impressed me, it all seemed so natural and not acting at all. Later I saw Ice Storm (partly because of Ang Lee) and thought this young man could actually be around for a long time.

zkgrumpy

02-03-2004, 01:22 PM

Many great and thoughtful posts this morning...

Re: women in fandom: Take that, you expletive-deleted (tm) reporter who said that women are statistically insignificant! :P Just as I thought, there's liars, d*mned liars, and statistics. ;)

Re: Frodo, addiction, and actors view on same: I just came to that conclusion yesterday - it's JMHGLO (*). It made a lot of things, including a lot of why he had to leave, a lot clearer, and oddly enough, I feel better today - maybe part of the terrible grief (besides that I'm probably nuts!) was just not understanding why he had to leave.

Maybe I also feel better today because I laughed so hard last night that I had bronchospasms. :D I scared the cats silly. Poor Desi-kitten kept trying to settle down in her usual place (on top of me) when I lie on the couch, but every time I laughed she thought I had exploded and took off for parts unknown.

Why? I watched "All I Want"/"Try 17". I absolutely *LOVED* it! I think Elijah was *perfect* and it was a whole different use for those big blue eyes. It was a combination of "Calvin and Hobbes: 10 years later", and Sean Sullivan from Ash Wednesday, who, when I got past the foul language and violins, was heartbreaking as a kid trying to be a man - the way he stood, the over-long swaggering stride at odds with that innocent, vulnerable face.

From Jones dragging that stupid trunk around, to the pepper spray, to the dream and fantasies (A *rocket launcher*?!? LOL!), to his expression when he was writing one of his fantastical letters, to learning "manly arts" from a gay guy, to the corkscrew practice, to his interaction with his mom, to the priceless series of expressions when Jane got on the bed, and the undisguised tenderness and yearning of the kiss when she turned his face toward hers, and everywhere else Jones went, it was just wonderful.

Elijah has said that he's doing roles about where he is in life. From things he's said, and various articles and interviews, I could see parallels. I remember reading about an incident where, in a hotel, room service brought up some drinks, and the woman who served the drinks opened a Coke for "the little boy", and he apparently stormed around saying "I'm 21!". He's talked about getting to NZ and encountering the quirky sense of humor that Dominic and Billy have - a British brand of humor, I guess - and how he thought at first that they didn't like him. There's also something about his open displays of affection to others that I find very touching - hugging everyone after SNL, hugging Peter at the GG, hugging Dominic on stage, hugs and kisses from various hobbits when they were leaving the pub at the end of that Primetime 'Lij special a few weeks back.

The thing about Jones's dad rang true for me, too. My dad was in a similar situation - he was born out of wedlock, found out accidently when he was 16, and spent the rest of his life begging his mother to tell him about his dad.

They weren't so heavy-handed with that topic that they destroyed the gentleness of the movie. They didn't pull a Mrs. Doubtfire where you're going along in a very funny movie and then suddenly you get hammered by the courtroom scene.

In any case, I loved it. I may have to watch it again tonight.

~grumpyandstillgiggling
(*) Just my humble goddess-like opinion ;)

hobbityme

02-03-2004, 01:25 PM

Wow, this board is on fire!

I haven't seen the infamous Homicide episode and with all this talk, I REALLY REALLY REALLY want to! It's such a different turn for Elijah that it's become fascinating to me.

As to why he chose to do Try 17... I have been doing some screenwriting as a side hobby and read tons of books on the process and I know that a script that an actor reads at the get-go when he or she actually comes on board for a project can be vastly different from the final draft that has been doctored to death. Actually, if you read a lot of the pre-production scripts, they are often LEAGUES better than the final drafts (from greats like American Beauty, Being John Malkovich to bad ones like A Walk to Remember, Empire Records). So it could have been that Try 17 pre-production was much better than Try 17 final draft and could explain why Elijah signed on to it.

I do remember him mentioning that when he read the Deep Impact script, it blew him away but he said it got reworked and he still loves the original version much better.

Michel Gondry also directed the brilliant Bjork videos that Elijah loves. Also, Elijah was and is a Kauffman fan.

zkgrumpy, glad you like Try Seventee, as did I. I also thought the subplot about his father was very meaningful on a certain level with me even if I've never encountered anything like it. I'm going out on a limb by saying it and it'll be short and sweet because frankly it's none of my business, but I can't help but remember that Elijah too has issues regarding his father and perhaps this part of the script rang true with him as well.

Random

02-03-2004, 01:55 PM

Hi all!

This is my favourite thread anywhere at the moment, I love all the gabbery. (Or is that just a Harem expression?;) )

I don't know about you lot but it's helping the melancholy of gradually saying goodbye to Frodo - I feel more hopeful, looking forward to what's going to happen with Elijah.

I'm glad that some people felt the same way I did about Try 17 - and that some didn't; it's definitely made me re-evaluate my first impressions. I asked myself if I would ever see it again if it was on telly - oh yes, anytime! An iffy Elijah film is better than no Elijah.

And then I watched a bit of Faculty this morning and I love that film (yep, I clearly prefer the pulpy stuff!)

So many Elijah bits I haven't seen. I've only seen Huck and Faculty and Ice Storm and Try 17. I really really would like to see the scary Homicide ep. Maybe one day...

And I keep on watching old episodes of X-files and Buffy and wishing EW had had the opportunity to guest star in them as well. Sigh.

Anyway, there was a (small) point to this post. The new Empire magazine has a reader-voted Top 100 films feature, and of course, what came first but (er, kinda spoilers)

FOTR! With TTT in third. Anyway, they had a little blurb on why the film was so wonderful, and the 'defining image' of the film which was (I quote)

'Frodo's hopeless face turning to the camera when the Fellowship are confronted with the "death" of Gandalf.'

Really excellent to find a populist film mag getting it right. :p

Mariole

02-03-2004, 02:13 PM

Goodness, I just spent an hour catching up! I'm going to have to comment and run, but I'll try to come back later. Really, RL should not be this busy!

Tg, very much looking forward to your Ice Storm commentary. And LOL at your "how Elijah got the part in LOTR" chain of coincidences. Wonderful!

Ainon, I am convinced that your mystery scene is the fake Gollum flash-forward. Remember the Goth pictures of Frodo dresssed up as a future Gollum? Well, in the TTT EE there was another scene of this where Frodo was really old, with white whispy hair, rocking back and forth in that little hole in the cave where he runs to escape Faramir after the latter is tempted by the Ring. Whispy-Haired-Frodo had the cloudy contacts and was rocking facing a rock wall in a cave -- I'm pretty sure this is what Harry saw. If you have the TTT EE, this particular shot is (maybe? it's been a while) under the Gollum branch. Let me know if you can't find it, and I'll look it up again.

Achila, about that motorcycle scene you mentioned in Try 17 -- did anyone else get the impression that Jones looked totally different in this scene? It was so odd. Here's the young, boyish yet mature fellow, with those big eyes. Then cover all that up with a helmet and shades, so you can really only see the planes of his face and his jaw -- man, that's a strong jaw! I thought, Holy smokes, it's the Marlboro Man! Seriously, he suddenly transformed into this classic Hollywood model-looking guy. I forget whose husband observed that Elijah needed more hair to balance that strong jaw. It is interesting, as his eyes are so commanding -- but when you take the eyes out of the equation, you have Ultra-Masculine-Bone-Face Man. JMHO.

honeyelf, I loved that link that you posted to the interview. Downward Facing Frodo -- too funny! I'm delighted I finally got to see Elwood put his foot behind his head. But it was a nice interview -- he came across as very collected and mature to me.

Rikka, regarding CoF, humor is so tough! My sister and I tried to stock up on "funny movies" for my (third) sister who is visiting. We totally failed! Out of 7 movies that were supposed to be funny, she only thought 2 of them actually were. It helps me appreciate how hard it is to find a comedy that the majority of people truly find funny.

Serena, I loved your letter to the editor! I should also write this man. We are women, we are finally recognized as being statistically relevant, hear us ROAR!

from grumpy
I'm here for some relatively intelligent discussion, myself, though I have no objection to being reminded of physical beauty.
Grumpy, if I had a sig line, that would be it. I love it! May I quote you? :k

from hobbityme
It's really the only place I've been to that mostly discusses Elijah's ACTING and TALENT rather than his various body parts.
Oh, hobbityme, it grieves me to be the bearer of bad news, but in the interests of honesty I'm afraid that I must reveal: we are extremely body-part oriented on this board. I myself burned through an entire grant's worth of money just discussing the sternocleidomastoid. There has also been significant discussion of the mandible (all angles), the zygomatic arch (although perhaps not by that name), the "cheek line" in the face, as well as those little dip-thingies under the eyes that may or may not have been caused by wearing glasses (the consensus was "not"), and -- what was the name of that little hollow under the nose? I'm sure there are more. But you see how we are. It is an inherent danger of exploring microexpressions, but we are brave fearless women, and we will go there if the discussion demands. Ears? Have we talked about ears?

hobbityme

02-03-2004, 02:32 PM

Mariole ~ Oh, I appreciate Elijah's beauty definitely... I even consider myself a swooner at times... it's just nice to know that there are many with eyes to see past that beauty and see his inner, radiant talent! ;)

Finally, I have an avatar :D I chose an Elijah one just because there's a lot of Frodo ones.

serena

02-03-2004, 03:03 PM

zkgrumpy, I too am glad you like Try17! Loved your résumé. OK, maybe I can steel myself to give it another go. One day.

Hobbityme, that point about Jones's father is a great insight. It may well have resonated with Elijah. People tend to forget his father even exists (I know I do). None of my business at all, but it must be extremely hard for a father to see his 8-year-old son overtaking him in earning capacity, not to mention prestige. He may well have felt he no longer had a role in the family ....

from Whiteling:
Well, I volunteerrr forrr coaching Elijah's Gerrrman accent. Someone has to do it, rrright?
Nur zu - er könnte viel von Dir lernen!
Trouble is, the play is written in New York (?) vernacular, so I suspect both Picasso and Einstein will end up not having "foreign" accents. Could be wrong, though. Elijstein may just end up saying "God, she's sexy" à la Marlene Dietrich. Or à la Whiteling ;).

Mariole, I just found this about Kevin Myers of the UK Daily Telegraph and Irish Times:
by Marie, a Clare County Library staff member
Readers of the Irish Times will be well acquainted with Kevin Myers column in the 'An Irishmans Diary'. Kevin Myers is the Irish equivalent of the soap-box orators at Hyde Park corner he has passionately held opinions on any subject you care to name. His column rouses outrage and admiration in equal measure amongst his readers.
.... He covers a range of issues the political issues of the day, sport, history, religion, and people in his own unique style. He pulls no punches in his criticism of the foibles and pretensions of modern Irish society. He arouses the ire of many of his readers in his debunking of shibboleths and sacred cows. The same columns are read and praised by an equal number of readers who agree with some of his standpoints.
The greatest strength of Kevin Myers' column is his mastery of the English Language. His prose is polished and honed to exactitude there is no ambiguity about his opinions, or how they are expressed. He writes farce with a pen dipped in vitriol, but he is equally capable of writing thoughtful, serious pieces which address complex issues with intelligent insight.
Yep. I'd agree with that.

from Mariole:
I myself burned through an entire grant's worth of money just discussing the sternocleidomastoid. There has also been significant discussion of the mandible (all angles), the zygomatic arch (although perhaps not by that name), the "cheek line" in the face, as well as those little dip-thingies under the eyes that may or may not have been caused by wearing glasses
There sure has. Your Elwoodian anatomical memory is astonishing, mariole!
But ... "Ears? Have we talked about ears? "
Erm, don't think so. Could be because Fro has foam ones. However, we may not have to rule out ear acting entirely. The former British Ambassador to this little country used to waggle one ear during tricky negotiations. Used to disconcert his opponents no end. Now to find some films in which EW's own ears are visible. :D Just got "The War" on DVD, so will start there. Watch this space.

Tg, it's all I can do to keep up with this thread, let alone reading - not to say contributing to - all the others! But even so I did dip into the movie forum the other day and saw some wonderful stuff. Could quite easily become a virtual being and spend my entire life in khazaddum.com cyberspace :eek:. Oh no ... it's bad enough already .... Go to bed, girl.

Dangermouse

02-03-2004, 06:36 PM

Just read this in a Viggo interview at http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1075763410134&call_pageid=968867495754&col=969483191630:

"I knew, having seen the movie, that neither my character nor really any other characters including characters like Sam and Frodo where the director's focus really lay they weren't really the kind of performances, with all due respect, that were about a great deal of detail and subtlety."

Grrrrr....who else diagrees? EW's performance is all about detail and subtlety. Just look at how his face subtly changes during Sam's "share the load" scene...sigh.

deluby

02-03-2004, 07:26 PM

Just dropping off today's FYC ad during my little break. :)

Color version of the Grey Haven Hug:

http://img1.photobucket.com/albums/v40/deluby/FYC6.jpg

:k

erendis

02-03-2004, 07:39 PM

Gah! Viggo!

I'm not sure what Viggo means by "subtle" in this context. His "subtlety" remark is a response to the no-actor-nom question, so maybe he's trying to say that the acting in LotR isn't the kind that attracts the awards. If so, then he's almost totally opposite to what I've observed. Isn't it the overacting that gets the nominations?

Oh well, that doesn't bug me as much as this one:he candidly states that the first film, The Fellowship Of The Ring, was the one where the acting counted for the most.

"Especially the extended version.

"There was more of a balance between the special effects and the fantastical and the subtle and human interactions.

"I think with the second movie and the third and the final part, the direction went from balancing that more towards the broader brush strokes in terms of performance and emotion, and very much towards special effects.":eek: *trouts Viggo*

shilohmm

02-03-2004, 07:45 PM

Originally posted by Dangermouse
"I knew, having seen the movie, that neither my character nor really any other characters including characters like Sam and Frodo where the director's focus really lay they weren't really the kind of performances, with all due respect, that were about a great deal of detail and subtlety."

WHAT????

:mad: :mad: :mad:

It's a royal pain posting (and reading, and anything-elseing) on this stupid computer, but I just have to tell Vigoo (I'm leaving that typo - seems appropriate) he's a maroon.

Grrrrrr.

Glad you liked Try Seventeen, grumpy. I was kind of neutral toward it - after reading your post I'm thinkin' I need to give it a second chance!

Must quit because my eyes are refusing to focus on this screen anymore...

Sheryl

Carleenya

02-03-2004, 09:34 PM

Originally posted by shilohmm
I just have to tell Vigoo (I'm leaving that typo - seems appropriate) he's a maroon.

Sheryl, you cracked me up! Thanks for the belly laugh! :D

I have been gone so long from this bit of Middle Earth, and when I read up the last couple of pages I just had to say "Damn[/i], I wish the people I interact with daily were as intelligent and insightful and courteous as the posters on this thread! No wonder I always get sucked back in here. :rolleyes:

Viggo's talking kinda funny for a guy who did a whale of a job of subtle facial acting himself, doncha think? Silly man. Well, just goes to show how Men get confused after the fact...whereas Elves remain constant. *sigh*

Dangermouse, I agree with you about Frodo's subtle facial changes, but in every scene, IMO. You could pick any Frodo scene at all and just watch his face for drama. What a fine Hobbit, and what a fine lad to portray our fine Hobbit. I just love that boy! :cool:

I can't decide if New Line's startling discovery of the intense interest women have in LoTR cracks me up or makes me want to pound something. Gah! As if women didn't eat it up when the books came out - those guys are still thinking of their astonishing, over-the-top special effects, rather than the underlying theme of the story. Talk about too close to the forest to see the trees!

Here's my viewpoint, for what it's worth. In my experiences in life, I have found that the true loyal-beyond-expected, helpful-when-least-looked-for kind of friendships have come from other women. Often women who weren't particular friends until I needed them, and usually they were only in my daily life-circle for a short space of time. But the friendship and strength they offered me often meant such a difference in my quality of life. Most women just seem to have this inate ability to help others in times of need, and a natural willingness to do so when they can. Not that men can't or don't, but in general, they don't seem to give as much of themselves as easily, and sometimes not without expectations. In other words, if they love you, they can be everything you could hope for, but in a friend, they aren't as naturally giving. Now I know that is a sweeping generalization, and I don't mean it as a condemnation of men (and yes, I do like men-very much), but they do function differently than women in general. (Of course, in every generalization there exists many exceptions. I certainly hope you have men-friends who are!)

In LoTR we have men of all different species, all of whom are so noble of heart, pure of intention, and loyal beyond everything - and that is so damn attractive in any living creature! Plus they go out and conquer our worst enemies (and deepest fears) because it's the right thing to do!

What's not to love about a world filled with people like that?!? So it seems only natural to me that women, who help each other conquer almost daily RL demons, would recognize and be drawn to the Men of Middle Earth. Frankly, on a mission (quest, thing...) of any length and difficulty, I would want some of the women in my life by my side. My unfortunate experience with men thus far has been that most of them would have been more than willing to help out, but would have drifted off at this village or that pub when the job took longer than they expected and they got tired of the whole thing. (Now that was a sad comment on the men in my life. Sorry.) :(

Well, I expect that post will stir up something. I hope I haven't offended anyone. Remember, it's just my experiences I'm talking about. But I long for a man who has some of Aragorn's qualities. Or Faramir's. Or Frodo's. Or Sam's. Or, for Pity's Sake, Boromir's!

Mariole

02-03-2004, 10:51 PM

Carleenya, how cool to see you! Yay, controversy. I'll bite!

Here's the new man in your life, with THESE EXCEPTIONAL QUALITIES:

Aragorn: uncertain about his role
Faramir: family issues
Frodo: predisposition to melancholia
Sam: not the sharpest pencil in the box
Boromir: always right

*ducks and runs away *OOF* who put this trout here?*

Carleenya

02-03-2004, 11:03 PM

Originally posted by Mariole
Carleenya, how cool to see you! Yay, controversy. I'll bite!

Here's the new man in your life, with THESE EXCEPTIONAL QUALITIES:

Aragorn: uncertain about his role
Faramir: family issues
Frodo: predisposition to melancholia
Sam: not the sharpest pencil in the box
Boromir: always right

Thanks, Mariole, but I was already married to him for too many years. And on top of that, he had Lurtz' sense of humor and Pippin's keen depth of perception.

On the other hand, he didn't let a little thing like a ring rule his life. He did, however, give me one. And I must admit, I reacted a bit like Isildur about it. :rolleyes: Lost all good sense for far too long. Fortunately, the Orcs didn't get me when I finally took it off. :D

Narya Celebrian

02-03-2004, 11:30 PM

Now now, you guys just KNOW I'm going to step in and tell you to take it to Agony Aunt's in the Moria Times forum, don't ya? :D :k

Hi Carleenya!! It is nice to see you! :k

Alyon

02-04-2004, 01:05 AM

I swear I'm going to bed, but I have to first say

CARLYEENA!! :cool: Good to see you!! You were here when I first landed in the Faculty and then you disappeared. I've wondered when you'd return. Just want to welcome you back!!

Which is the last thing I'll do before going to bed. Welcome back and goodnight!!

alyon

P.S. sean astin on Letterman tonight? I think I just read that at TORN, if anybody is still up in this time zone.

shadowcatshadow

02-04-2004, 02:15 AM

:confused:

What was the purpose of Elijah Wood wrestling Andy Sercis?

Can he do this in Real Life? I mean is he strong enough to put him in his place I necessary?

:confused:

ainon

02-04-2004, 02:48 AM

Originally posted by deluby

Just dropping off today's FYC ad during my little break.

Color version of the Grey Haven Hug (http://img1.photobucket.com/albums/v40/deluby/FYC6.jpg)

Thank you, deluby! I sure hope you'll be having many daily little breaks ... ;)

To fellow crebain cappers, don't suppose anyone has a better image of this shot? My crebain cuts Pippin out of the scene. :o

http://home.ripway.com/2003-7/13204/image.jpg

((((Carleenya)))) It's so good to see you again! And of course, trust you to put everything LOTR into its proper humble RL perspective. LOL! Hope everything's good with you?

MsUnderhill, if you're still lurking with us ... Happy Birthday!

--------------

The most wonderful Elf Lady from CoE screencapped the high-resolution trailer from the Japanese site and has them all up: http://elflady.com/legolasgreenleaf/rotk/trailer/japan.htm

Here are the pics and scenes for the Faculty. I've leave you eloquent ladies to put in the words. :)

http://home.ripway.com/2004-1/63714/j01.jpg

http://home.ripway.com/2004-1/63714/j06.jpg

http://home.ripway.com/2004-1/63714/j08.jpg

http://home.ripway.com/2003-7/13204/j10.jpg

http://home.ripway.com/2003-7/13204/j12.jpg

http://home.ripway.com/2003-7/13204/j15.jpg

BLOSSOM

02-04-2004, 03:14 AM

Quick post.

'Not really performances that were about any great detail or subtlety.' - Quote from Viggo Mortensen. :confused: :confused: :confused:

Has Viggo lost his mind?

I just read that article at TORn, and had much the same response as you Dangermouse, erendis and Sheryl. Elijah's Frodo throughout the trilogy is the epitome of the most exquisite detail and subtlety!

I love Kevin Myers! :) Great letter serena.

Rikka - It's lovely to have you back here as a regular poster, and I'm so happy you loved ROTK as much as we all did. Lovely posts too.:)

Hello again Carleenya.

Beautiful, beautiful poster, deluby. Thanks.

I like Try 17 - my preferred title also.

ainon - lovely crebain GH cap - unfortunately mine has had its wings clipped too. I'm off to take a peep at that trailer...

P.S - Happy Birthday to MsUnderhill, and the same to Bridget for yesterday.

Rikka

02-04-2004, 08:33 AM

Hi everybody!

I'm in shock after reading Viggo's comments about acting in LOTR. What's wrong with the man??? :confused: :( Even his own performance (at least in some TTT scenes) is very detailed... But EW's acting in all the movie is all about details and subtlety!

(((zkgrumpy))) :k I loved your comments abot Try 17. They are very close to my own impressions, but you were more eloquent.

BLOSSOM
:k thank you for kind words. I'm really happy that I'm back here. The Faculty's community became very dear to me...

Reading your last posts, dear ladies, I recalled 3 more EW's movies I've seen. I don't know why I did forget to mention them.

Well, may be I forgot about The Deep Impact because the movie was too bad and the boy there was an "empty place" everywhere but one scene IMO (in the bus, when he refuses to go to the shelter with his parents).

Forever Young I saw long time ago, but I recall now a charming little kid with huge eyes - his talk with a little girl he loved in library (or book store?) was just lovely, woow! Also his love serenada at the tree was great... But this is all I remember about that film.

And the 3d one is The Faculty, yes! Sincerely saying, I don't like horror movies even when they are not serious, but just playing and joking with the genre, as Rodrigues did in The Faculty. But some scenes in it are really funny - I loved "the drug test" especially. :D

He he... by the way, I watched The Faculty just after FOTR, aready knowing EW as Frodo... And at the last battle scene I couldn't stop giggling, thinking: why the poor boy is so "lucky" with giagentic she-arachnoids? :D

Goldenberry

02-04-2004, 09:24 AM

It seems that Vigoo's (love that, Sheryl!) comments are stirring up as much wrath as the lack of acting noms.

Honestly, Vigoo can't find his a** with a flashlight either! ;) :rolleyes:

When you think of some of the UN-subtle, waaaay over-the-top performances that HAVE won awards, his opinions make no sense.

The myriad subtleties of a certain young actor have kept this thread going for a long time now. :)

Carleenya, it's great to *see* you!

Dangermouse

02-04-2004, 09:37 AM

I loved Viggo as Aragorn, and thought he was quite subtle (though it looks like he disagrees with me). He's quite welcome to his opinion on acting (it seems he likes the grand: "Look at me, I Am Acting. I am an A-C-T-O-R" performances).

But (especially considering the Oscars and the fact that LOTR is fighting SFX bias) his comments struck me as inconsiderate at best and insulting (to PJ & other actors) at worst. Way to go: say that PJ neglected actors for SFX and that TTT & ROTK are just spectacles. Not only that, but say that your fellow actors' performances lacked detail and subtlety (especially singling out Elijah and Sean). As far as I know, no other cast member ever said anything bad about him in the press.

The reason the Faculty thread exists is because of Elijah's amazing acting. His Frodo won my heart not because he makes great speeches or grand gestures, but because of the incredible nuances of his performance. I've never before seen an actor that could do so much with so little dialogue. And while he is excellent in FOTR & TTT, it is ROTK that is really the sterling example of that: the joy in his voice at "I can see the Shire," the potent cocktail of emotions on his face as Sam talks about the return journey. His lack of vitality and sense of loss in the Shire. His naked terror in Shelob's lair (but how different is his first unreasoning terror, and his later fright mixed with determination and courage), followed by his quiet mercy, and incredible determination. The fact that his face (especially his eyes) are a mirror for the tiniest flicker of emotion. The fact that in ROTK he pulls off an incredible feat of playing a character that is losing his personality, what makes him this character, and yet he remains: Frodo that loses his Frodo-ness, and not Frodo that turns into Elijah Wood.

And there is also no question that the rest of the hobbits (especially Sam and Pippin) had much better, moving performances in ROTK (because of the script and narrative arcs). Ditto for Bernard Hill.

It's one thing to not care for awards, another to say your movie is unworthy of them.

Oh well. I'll still like him as Aragorn.

Moondancer

02-04-2004, 09:44 AM

As somebody has said before, most Oscar nominations were given for the 'bigger' performances and the subtle performances are often overlooked.
For example Russell Crowe: he was awarded for one of his bigger roles (Maximus), whereas he was better in more subtle roles (such as The Insider).

I'm trying to give Viggo the benefit of the doubt here and I'm taking into consideration that this interview might have been understood better without the editing of the journalist (maybe some things were taken out of context?).
This article is very much open to interpretation.
I'm beginning to understand why I hardly ever saw Viggo do promotion for the trilogy. I assume that this is not his thing and NewLine knew that Sean and Elijah were better at it?
Does he mean that the trilogy is more plot-driven, an epic in which the real star is the Peter Jackson interpretation of JRR Tolkien's books - whereas other movies (with acting nomination) are more character-driven?
How then does he explain that even the Sam and Frodo scenes are not about sublety and detail? Elijah's performance is a very subtle one.
:confused:
Viggo is mainly talking about the director's choice here. Does he mean that a lot of the deeper and more intense scenes ended up on the cutting floor (to make room for the bigger battles, effects?)
Sean Astin did say too that a lot of his very best scenes were cut out (but he didn't come across as negative about it as Viggo) and sir Ian McKellan mentionned something like this too.
But, his timing to do this interview - in the midst of the award season - is not so good.

Could I ask you guys that if you talk about other EJW movies (plot lines, interpretations,...of movies such as Try 17), to please add 'spoiler' signs'? Thanks

By the way, you can have a look at the new poster for 'Eternal Sunshine...' here (http://filmforce.ign.com/articles/489/489110p1.html?fromint=1)

Narya Celebrian

02-04-2004, 09:50 AM

I perfectly understand people's reactions to Viggo's comments, and there's an Oscar thread over in the Trilogy forum that is the perfect place to discuss it; you'll find other people over there too, other than just members of the Faculty, that have some interesting opinions on the matter as well. :) As Oscar season heats up, I'd encourage everyone to explore the Trilogy forum as a place to discuss more general movie conversation, discussion about the merits of the various movie characters, and commentary on the awards processes.

Kilia24

02-04-2004, 10:52 AM

Hello Faculty members from a new Haremite.

I saw the commercial for Paradise last night saying that they'll be showing it today on Starz. For those of us in Nor Cal, it's on around noon on Starz love cable channel.

http://www.starz.com/se/lovestories/index.html

K.

tgshaw

02-04-2004, 12:49 PM

I threw these onto ImageMagician before I took off for work--a couple of screencaps from the Japanese trailer that ainon somehow missed :confused: . Hmmm.... they're both rather non-angsty, aren't they? ;)

http://www.imagemagician.com/images/tgshaw/RotK/Japan05.jpg

http://www.imagemagician.com/images/tgshaw/RotK/japan65.jpg

-------

Am having to work on Mikey's football game bit by bit, since I didn't get it all done over the weekend. I probably shouldn't have mentioned it before it was ready :o .

zkgrumpy

02-04-2004, 01:53 PM

Grumpy, if I had a sig line, that would be it. I love it! May I quote you?

:::: blush :::: aw, shuckins. Sure!

Re: Disagreement: We have different opinions, and I think that the spice of life is to see what other people think, why, whats behind it, how they came to think that way, how does location/cultural differences factor in. I hope that nobody thinks that we are arguing or fighting! Thats a killer for many forums. I love comparing my impressions with others!

AIW/Try17:
I cant help but think that were falling into the trap of thinking that what were seeing on the screen is Elijah, not Jones. (I watched it again last night) :)

- Silence and blah: I agree quiet Jones was blah. I got the feeling that the wheels were trying to turn, but Jones didn't quite know how to get them going any more than he knew how to get Lisa horizontal. The question is, was it Elijah who didn't know, or Jones? I think Elijah was acting with his usual subtlety - Jones *was* "blah". (Maybe he did too well just like a certain non-nominated hobbit who comes to mind!) Jones was 17, without any sort of strong feeling of home and roots, away from the structure of private (USA - in Britain I think the term is "public") schools and summer camps. Jones was completely out of his league - he wrote a rent check for $12K! I think Elijah acted the part exactly as it should have been played. I don't think there was anything accidental about it. Not *that* actor. :) We've spent three years (some of us, anyway - I'm just catching up) gazing into Elijahs eyes and seeing Frodos soul. That we look into the same eyes and see Jones's "blah-ness" is disturbing.

Re: What the heck kind of film is it?
the movie couldn't decide what it wanted to be: a coming of age story, a funny adolescent comedy, a movie about quirky people, a family drama (the earlier mother-son stuff reminded me a bit of "Igby Goes Down," a brilliant movie). In the end it ended up being neither, really.

I think thats accurate, and also a more accurate reflection on reality than if it had been neatly one kind of movie, and that its precisely what was supposed to happen. Maybe Im crediting the director with too much intent here, but after all, EJW picked the script so who knows? (Id love to hear his thoughts on it!)

My sister always says that adolescence is a near-fatal disease entity. Jones was at an age that is all of the above slapstick, angsty, quirky, upheaval of family roles, raging hormones. The movie itself was as vague, ambiguous, unformed, and confused as Jones, and the character and story emphasized each others confusion. Its definitely not stated explicitly anywhere and if it was intentional, perhaps Elijah wasnt even aware of it.

I think that we love to categorize things; to give them short convenient handles for classification. We experience it a lot in LotR and cult movies/tv fandom. LotR has often been referred to as a geek flick; people who love it are geeks. Newscasters immediately tag news events with nice short names that are supposed to be representative of an event, that, as Samwise said, dont do it justice, not by a long shot. Personally, I like that its difficult to classify this movie, except as a comedy.

I think that an Adam Sandler type actor would have been just wrong. Sandler is a comic actor with a lot of identifiable comic mannerisms. Elijah is an actor who can do near-fatal disease entity as well as a tormented hobbit crawling up the slopes of Mt. Doom. Sandler mugging for the camera would have been expected; Elijah expressing the blah-ness that only a late adolescent like Jones can express was just well - Jones. It would have been an entirely different movie with Sandler obvious, limited, ordinary, and I probably would have hated it. I loved this one. (Personally, I dont think Elijah could do an ordinary performance reading the phone book out loud.) ;)

Ears: I noticed EWs ears in AIW. I expected to see pointed ones and thought, HEY! Wheres his ears? ;)

EW felt uncomfortable with the role (and his reaction when asked about it recently by a German interviewer speaks volumes;
What was his reaction?

I can completely understand why he did it its a pretty good film to do if you want to move from child actor to hey! I can do sex scenes now! proper movie star
but didnt he do some in the Ice Storm (which is on its way Ill be able to watch it)? I didnt get that impression at all it may be his first movie with hot&steamy scenes, but Joness progression was from not even knowing how to kiss to the tonsillectomy he gave the blonde girl in the car at the end. I thought the whole progression was touching, myself. Or maybe I just have too many brothers and nephews.

re: jaws:
Then cover all that up with a helmet and shades, so you can really only see the planes of his face and his jaw -- man, that's a strong jaw!
Isnt it, though!? I posted a while back about my focus watching LotR shifting from his eyes to the rest of his face. Hes got a fantastic jaw, chin, and cheekbones!

Viggo: "I knew, having seen the movie, that neither my character nor really any other characters including characters like Sam and Frodo where the director's focus really lay they weren't really the kind of performances, with all due respect, that were about a great deal of detail and subtlety."
:::: piling up sandbags, putting metal colandar on head for helmet and arming self with wooden spoons and spatulas ::::

I agree with him. :::: ducking boos, hisses, rotten vegetables and popcorn thrown by Faculty :::: ;) I just think that hes defining subtlety differently than we do. The subtlety that we see in Elijahs performance is that of expressiveness; being able to show emotion without words, which is what the role required. Viggo's role did not require that - he had action and words.

LotR was, at least on the surface, not subtle. The characters yelled, fought, cried, bellowed, whined, sang, pronounced. He also wasnt talking about Elijah and Sean he was talking about Frodo and Sam and I doubt if hes read the books.

I disagree with him on Oscar-worthiness. I think actors like subtlety probably more rewarding professionally and it seems to be considered better somehow maybe because its a newer technique? But I think that true acting genius is being able to act in a way that the role requires, which is what they all did. These roles were dashing, physical, and noisy, in the book and in the movies. I forgive him everything, though. He did make a great Aragorn.

I'm beginning to understand why I hardly ever saw Viggo do promotion for the trilogy. I assume that this is not his thing and NewLine knew that Sean and Elijah were better at it?
I suspect that his contract didnt require it as much as the Hobbits and others. We havent seen that much of Orlando, either. Remember that Viggo was hired on the spur of the moment.

::: trying to imagine Adam Sandler saying The ring is mine!; brain short-circuits :::

~grumpy

hobbityme

02-04-2004, 02:36 PM

Can't stay very long but I just want to direct your attention to this poll:

http://imdb.com/poll/

Elijah's pretty low on the rankings. I can't personally tell you to vote for him but I have a feeling most of you will ;)

You have to be registered but it is free so vote! I'm getting so fed up with everyone passing his performance off. Really.

Regarding this whole Viggo thing, I think it's blown waaaay out of proportion. Now I don't claim to know Viggo or know what his thoughts are, but I'm sure his intention when saying those words were in the right place, or rather, he didn't intend to insult either PJ or his castmates. I mean, Viggo does have a tendency to ramble, as dear Elijah has himself pointed out... this was just another one of those occassions where his thoughts are there but his expression is a bit vague.

hobbityme

02-04-2004, 03:13 PM

Okay, I'm just posting a separate reply so that the poll one isn't swamped with words that it's missed. I'm splitting it into two because I think it's too large to fit into one.

I've been wading through AICN and through Harry Knowles' reports and have dissected it to post the quotes regarding Elijah...

ON THE FACULTY SET:

That's when I catch a glance of a shaggy dog, right out of Shaggy Dog D.A., and I see that the lady walking this glorious long haired beastee is headed my way. About this time the rocking beat of THEY LIVE is playing, and when she reaches me she shakes my hand and says with a very pleasant tone, "Nice to meet you Harry, I'm Elijah Wood's mother." I return the good morning style greeting, and then I'm instantly met by a young girl that says, "and I'm Elijah's sister."

Sometimes you feel like you are on another planet. Let me see if I can explain just how absurd it is to sit on a curb, across from Robert Rodriguez shooting the opening titles of his film, listening to John Carpenter's THEY LIVE score, and meeting Elijah Wood's Mother, Sister and his shaggy dog. I smile, shake my head a little, and think, "Yup, one of them days."

-------

Right after the Elijah stunt, which included the pad being shoved too far beneath him, and him hitting the pavement with his elbow and getting a nasty little scrape. He didn't cry or whimper or complain a bit. He just shrugged it off and did the shot again. After Robert got all the coverage just right, we broke for lunch.

I headed for the van, as did some of the female cast, Elijah and Elizabeth. As I sat down in the van next to the young female stars, my inner rumbling began again. No... no.... no.... please. Not in the van. Not next to mega babes of the future. Nooooooooooooooo. It can't happen here. Not with Elijah asking about SAVING PRIVATE RYAN, no. So instead I concentrate on chatting with Elijah, who happens to be quite a good geek. He knows his films, and was curious about many. It was keeping my mind off of... more messy issues. So I talked. Both the girls were talking about something, I can't remember because I was concentrating on keeping everything where it should be.

------

I get my tray of food, which included steamed broccoli, cabbage, salmon and salad with no dressing. I go to sit down with Enrique (the DP) and we talk a bit about Ecuador, his home country. When Elijah and family sit down. Once again Elijah and I begin talking. This kid is pretty damn personable. We traded 'how we got started' stories. How we hate masses of media all asking the same stupid questions. I tell him about the idiotic questions I heard at the Dreamworks Media thingee, and he tells me about the ones he is anticipating from the DEEP IMPACT junket he has to do this weekend. I feel for the kid. I remember stumbling into that media center at Sundance. NUMBING!

His mom and sister take off, but Elijah and I keep talking. We're probably gonna get together and watch Six String Samurai, the Showest stuff from PLEASANTVILLE (absolutely the best looking movie coming out this year so far), and some other... unnamed goodies that Elijah dying to see. Soon though he's called away to be touched up by make-up and hair, and actually my stomach tells me I have to get back into the bathroom.

I realize I can never think it's a fart. Ya know? That sucks, to everytime, RUN to the bathroom. When I arrive back to set I see that Elijah is being bloodied up. COOOOL!!! CARO SYRUP AND RED DYE NUMBER 5!!!!!! Ahhhhh, the stuff with which movie magic is made of. I love it. This shot is pretty tough, it involve a character falling into frame, then panning up to track with another character and bumping into another, who then runs into the camera. A pretty tough assignment, but the young actors hit their marks like clockwork. Wow. I just love to see it done right.

----

Thats when we see LEVI the shaggy dog of Elijah Wood walking around. Dannie, being the ever oooooooooh hesssss soooooooooo cuuuuuuuttttttttteeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!!!! girlie girl, tries to pet the beast. The dog, being a smart dog, was afraid of my sister, who literally is the embodiment of all things evil, and ran away and avoided her at all costs. The dog would hide between stars, under their chairs, behind screens, trees and every other tangible thing to keep him away from Dannie.

-----

Meanwhile, I begin talking with Elijah Wood about stuff. He asks about the Prequels, he wanted me to tell him stuff thats not on the site. He wanted to hear what I thought of the project, how the kid playing Anakin was, what was right and what was wrong. Basically I tell him my personal belief about the project based on all that I have seen. (WHICH IS A LOT) I tell him while I believe it will blow most people away, I dont believe it will be a Star Wars film in the sense that we know a Star Wars film. I might be 100% off on this, BUT the ships dont look like the belong in the Star Wars universe I know. The aliens dont look like Star Wars aliens, and the robots have a completely different and higher tech feel than the ones in the films we know and love. Of course, I tell him that all my problems may be answered in the subsequent films, but that as I stand right now, I dont have 100% faith anymore. I have severe doubts as to how good the film will be. However, I hope and pray that George pulls it off. If this movie were to suck, then there is no telling how heart broken the fans and geeks of the world will be. It would be like the Challenger disaster. People would stop looking up for a while.

Around this time Quint arrived. He was eavesdropping on the conversation and both he and Elijah had a bit of a disappointed look on their face. Wanting to cheer them up I told them about ARMAGEDDON which is closer at hand, and some of the cool stuff that will be coming from PLEASANTVILLE and WHAT DREAMS MAY COME and SAVING PRIVATE RYAN. Their minds wandered from the dire feelings I have about Episode One and they were thinking of other things. Quint began talking to Elijah about interviewing him and bringing him to a film party Im going to be having at my house this weekend. Elijahs eyes widened at the thought of attending a film party at my house. Yes, he is a geek, which I think is something that hasnt really come across in his films. He has a bead of enthusiasm and intelligence that I think most directors dont let him use. I really have to say that I have been quite impressed with Elijah in terms of film saavy. He really is a perceptive fella and far more adult than hes been given a chance to show.

----

The rest of the day was spent talking with Elijah Wood's mother about Elijah's career, about where he needs to go, what sort of image he needs, and so on. A very interesting conversation. It went on for hours.

hobbityme

02-04-2004, 03:23 PM

OKAY THIS IS PART II

ON THE SET OF LORD OF THE RINGS:

As I walk off my airplane legs a bit weak, having remained basically motionless for the past 13 hours as my body was miraculously transported from cement terror of Los Angeles across the Pacific Ocean to find its way to Wellington amongst the lush vegetation and the beautiful wind swept bay But like I said, I was walking off my airplane when in the distance I see a hazy image I had yet to wipe my sleepy filled eyes I hear my name being enthusiastically screamed out. Gosh this computer bag is heavy OH THATS It is.. Elijah!
It seems like an eternity since I last saw Elijah. Over a year and a half outside of Antones the night of the EDTV premiere party. His hair is longish and jet black and he is banked on either side by a pair of lovely ladies. Interesting.
Elijah and I instantly begin catching up Since last seeing this guy, hes left a Hobbit hole, come in possession of a powerful ring, set off on an adventure through dangers untold and his FEET! My have they grown!
With me, he asks about my sister and father. I tell him about Rodriguez and SPY KIDS the Austin Studio that is being built Soon hes sick wanting to head back to Austin for some barbarque and movies in my backyard Me, well I ask question after question about LORD OF THE RINGS
First off, when asked even the simplest of questions about the film, his entire body posture changes his eyes widen, and his hands come into play as if to help paint the grandeur of his experience. He has a bit of that zealot look on his face. Talking with him about the film, I dont learn much else besides his unrelenting enthusiasm. On FACULTY he was excited, but this is something else all together. Hes in love with the film, the production and the folks hes met here. For Elijah, this is first film basically completely on his own Pre-LOTR, his mother and sister were on set with him almost completely. He had a set-teacher to make sure he did his homework So here, here he can concentrate on the film and enjoying New Zealand. Elijah seems to be the same chap I knew way back when.

----

Then I enter the STUDIO L I see Gandalf, Frodo, Pippin, Merry and Legolas all gathered around Peter. This is my first time to see Legolas and Merry and more importantly it is my first time to see Elijah in costume as Frodo.
I come over and Ian begins in on my reports online "You get a bit carried away from time to time dont you?" Im the first to admit the purple of my prose, but dammit, I get excited.
Now Frodo has a burnt/cut in like bit around the backside of his neck this is from the weight of the ring the chain cutting into his neck imagine a healing scabby wound with a glistening of clear pus. Its not exaggerated this isnt BAD TASTE this looks like someone super-heated a coathanger wire wrapped it about Frodos neck and pulled down hard on it. Really hurtful looking.

-----

Sunday, December 17, 2000
There and Back Again: A Geek's Adventures In Middle Earth! Chapter THREE
Now I am where magic is most evident. The blue screen stage L.
Again I took a cab from the hotel.. Today, Im feeling completely adjusted to my locale and time. Going into the future to talk about the distant Tolkien past is really quite something. There is a period of adjustment.
This adjustment is now done. The cabbie takes me to a location amongst storage facilities. First I had to be taken through the base of Mt Victoria strange honking reverberating through the tunnel Then upon being birthed on the otherside, I find myself in an area that feels quite a bit like Burbank neighborhoods like Toluca Lake.
The driver doesnt really know where we are going, but as we get about 3 blocks away I spot an assembled army of trucks Enough to move the furniture from the World Trade Center in a day.
The car pulls to a slow halt up beside the entrance. There is a security guard, a rather nice soft spoken fellow, and as I approach him, I flash the magical neck ornament that removes the anger, the knives and the rather large spiked baseball bats from the mitts of these other security blokes. For the record, I am ORC 1686. I have no idea what this code means, and when I ask folks if it has some sort of significance, they just laugh at me. But then everyone always laughs at me, so this is nothing new. Hehehe
The guard says, "You here for PJ are you?" I supposed that this was a fine time to utter, "Yeah," so I did and on about my journey I continued.
I pass this one studio housing a great tree I know not from when it came, but it really was quite a gorgeous tree, nestled amongst the vegetation.
There is non-stop activity all about folks carrying large metal poles, film cans all of that sort of thing. Folks hauling off stricken parts of sets Prop folks carrying off swords There is an elf warrior type in full armor getting out of it beautiful armor, imagine armor plates handled like bird feathers. It really is quite something.
Then I enter the STUDIO L I see Gandalf, Frodo, Pippin, Merry and Legolas all gathered around Peter. This is my first time to see Legolas and Merry and more importantly it is my first time to see Elijah in costume as Frodo.
I come over and Ian begins in on my reports online "You get a bit carried away from time to time dont you?" Im the first to admit the purple of my prose, but dammit, I get excited.
Now Frodo has a burnt/cut in like bit around the backside of his neck this is from the weight of the ring the chain cutting into his neck imagine a healing scabby wound with a glistening of clear pus. Its not exaggerated this isnt BAD TASTE this looks like someone super-heated a coathanger wire wrapped it about Frodos neck and pulled down hard on it. Really hurtful looking.
Legolas does indeed have pointy ears but not at all like SPOCK ears they are almost exactly like my sisters ears (doesnt help yall I know) but people that have pointy ears tend to have a roundness to the points Orlando wanted to take a Polaroid with me, so we went over to the grassy knoll area of the stage and took a shot. We then had a bit of a talk. Orlando Bloom is in a daze. Hes so happy about being in the film. Turns out when he came to the project he was basically fresh out of the ol Drama School in London. Hed had a pair of smaller basically anonymous type roles prior to this Hes in it now, thats for sure. He began remembering being in a valley in an impossibly lost world of New Zealand he and about a dozen others the shot was made and Peter said to him, "Now this is epic filmmaking." The look in Orlandos eyes as he remembered the majesty of the world around him, the places hes been on this film. Hes quite a bit stunned that its all coming to an end Sure hell be called back for pick up shots looping the rest of it but the great deal of the adventure is coming to a close. "I dont want to even talk about it."
Soon though, he and Ian are called onto another set in another location this other set is the House of Healing in Minas Tirith and in front of the bluescreen is a gigantic friggin bed Im talking the sort of bed that I would look thin on. Anyway ol Elijah is up there on the bed and Merry and Pippin come running and hopping up on the bed
Meanwhile on the screen is all of this composited stuff of the room Gandalf, Legolas, Aragorn, Sam and Gimli All right there. Wow. This is so freakin surreal. I mean this is like really really close to the end of the end. An image being put together with multiple plates that I wont see finished for years and years.

-----

Oh ***. Im getting really emotional right now as I type this, Frodo, Sam, Merry and Pippen are shooting their scenes at the door as Frodos leg is grabbed by a tentacle or something from the lake. Im typing this live as I watch it. Elijah has been rigged to be dragged at a phenomenal rate of speed. Here we go rehearsal. Frodo is laying Pippin, Merry and Sam are behind him suddenly they have Frodo ripped out of their hands as he is pulled out of shot

hobbityme

02-04-2004, 03:24 PM

PART III

On the Lord of the Rings Set

---

right before it, Randy Cook passed on from Philippa Boyens to me, "This is the last shot between Sean and Elijah."
I ceased watching the monitors put down the computer, and I walked over towards where they were and watched. This scene this is where Frodo and Sam said goodbye to one another in the realm of film production. They nailed the shot, and fell into each other hugging. Theyve been atop mountains together spent long sleepless nights Sean has had to carry Elijah theyve wrestled with invisible cg beasties Theyve cried over one another and each morning for the last year and a half plus they sat in FEET & MAKEUP and became Hobbits together.
There was no champagne no big celebration just an honest moment between the crew and them. Elijah and Sean stood side by side looking for the words trying to think of something poignant to say, but instead just threw their arms up and began hugging people. This was also Seans last day of shooting on set.
I choked up a bit, really because I know as do all of you really, that when playing the types of characters that Sean and Elijah have here it is a long friendship Sure theyll stay in contact, but this is something special the film relationship that Elijah and Sean will share onscreen that will be eternal, but this part of it this is it. Theyll see each other in ADR promotional junkets Theyll recall being evacuated off a mountaintop as a blizzard blew in via helicopters while Peter scouted the lowlands so as to not lose the day. I sit here and I think of what it will be like to grow an attachment with these two over the 3 films to see Frodo and Sam in Mordor to imagine seeing Sam lifting Frodo while saying something along the lines of, "I may not be able to carry that for you Mr Frodo Baggins, but I can carry you!" And the idea that I was here to witness their last onscreen moment And that it is a tiny scene really
Two Hobbits amongst Men recalling their journey in brief the separation from the Fellowship and hearing of a fallen comrade. Sigh.
After they break for lunch I join Sean and Elijah for lunch back at the homebase a trailer park for characters of Tolkien. Its like an Oklahoma Suburb upon the sides of the trailers names like Gollum (Andy Serkis was tying his door open as I passed by), Gandalf, Eowyn, Aragorn, Frodo and Sam and so on.
We enter the trailer of Frodo. Inside Elijah is greeted by his agent, Nicole Jaffe a heroine of mine. Do you not know the name of Nicole Jaffe? HOW DARE YOU NOT KNOW THAT NAME!!! Nicole Jaffe is just about the coolest person I have ever met in my life and on top of everything else I got a kiss! Who is she besides Elijahs agent? Nicole Jaffe is VELMA!!! No, not Velma from MURDER MY SWEET with Dick Powell Im talking about THE VELMA as in the HOLY VELMA! Scooby Doo Velma! I met the real Velma Sean Astin and I began doing that, worship bit I mean, Nicole Jaffes voice is a MAJOR INFLUENCE ON OUR CHILDHOOD! Utter awe!

I held the ring the other day! It was chained to Elijahs neck, but the second I saw it, I moved with the speed required to capture my precious
Now I know the ring holds no power I know that this ring was made for a movie BUT DUUUUUUDESSSS!!! The vibe I got off of holding that ring I seriously did not want to let go. I mean that. Elijah, a fella I consider my friend, had this frightened look on his face I had it in my clutches security was beginning to make their move I COULD TAKE EM! I KNOW IT! The ring is as described simple and perfect. Gold and evil. Watching Elijah tuck the ring beneath his shirt was sooooooo cool.

Yet, different from before, there was a new set A cave no a rocky craggy face wet and dank looking, as if formed in the nightmare of ones mind. Lights and track were being laid down, and as I was walking past, one of the crew cried out, "Harry were about to begin shooting here with Elijah."
Sure enough, there was Frodo, ring round that neck of his a greenish cloak and his ever-loving Hobbit feet. They were in the process of putting these contact lenses in for him. The lenses achieve a strange tired look in his eye and are rather thick and milky. Elijah says, "Harry? Is Harry here?"
I respond with an affirmative and he looks straight at me with a confused lost look "I cant see you very well."
"Well, Ive lost over a hundred pounds and look great!"
The crew began laughing.
"Must be those 3 hour workout sessions you do!" Oh hell, hes been reading the page. Hehehe
I feel the cloth of his cloak a really nice loose weave very soft My eyes are drawn to the ring. Perhaps because it is the brightest element the only shiny thing about Frodo. Maybe it is because my mind knows what the ring is what it represents and how with it, I could make off with nearly every prop I wants!
This is a little mini-unit today Peter wanted to shoot one last scene with Elijah and this is it. A scene of Frodo facing some rock and turning to look at us. Hidden in shadow. Kinda creepy.

----

Take care be well The shooting of principal photography is OVER and my friends it has been emotional. Tears flowed Elijah shook Orlando smiled so much tears flowed and tonight, after 18 months of filming the party to end all wrap parties will get underway in about 12 minutes Ive got to go sorry for the no spell check no grammar check Ive got to go

---

I recommend you read the whole thing. You can find it at the Ain't It Cool News Website! Sorry if I just invaded the server and took up loads of space. Hopefully some people will find it interesting!

zkgrumpy

02-04-2004, 03:26 PM

Amid all of the 20-syllable words used in recent posts that I have *NO* idea what they mean ;) , were there any that meant "hands"? Have y'awl dissected the way Elijah's hands seem to be used in his movies? I've noticed it in at least 4 so far: Huck Finn, The War, LotR, and Try 17.

~grumpy

serena

02-04-2004, 06:40 PM

EW felt uncomfortable with the role [Try17] (and his reaction when asked about it recently by a German interviewer speaks volumes).
From zkgrumpy:
What was his reaction?

Can't find his exact words right now, but as far as I remember he dismissed it by saying "Oh, let's talk about something else. The name was changed to "All I Want". Yeah, it went straight to video", or words to that effect. I don't think he was trying to avoid talking about Franka, as he did so at some length later in the interview (said they were still friends and had spent some time together in LA last summer). Elijah almost never avoids talking about past movies (as far as I've seen, anyway) and is usually quite enthusiastic about them - even Flipper (which incidentally I quite like! ;)). I just suspect he didn't like the way Try17 had turned out. It also struck me that neither Franka nor Mandy attended the première, and I've always wondered why not. Were they both avoiding associating with Elijah (there had been all sorts of reports about Mandy having been heartbroken when Franka came along and took him from her, and meanwhile he had split up with Franka too), or did they just not like the movie? Discuss ....

Viggo. A conundrum. Yes, you're right, Rikka: what he said was EXTREMELY unfortunate right in the middle of the awards season. OK, we know Viggo hates media junkets (that's one reason he didn't do the rounds like the others; with Orlando it was because he had just become Superstar Numero Uno and couldn't spare the time!), hates commercialism and probably hates the whole Oscar business with a passion. His absence from the GGs on "family business" was rather noticeable too. On reading the quote I first thought he had meant to say that the characters left no room for subtle acting, but on re-reading it I think he really did mean the performances: he said "Having seen the film .... they weren't really the kind of performances, with all due respect, that were about a great deal of detail and subtlety". Yes, Dangermouse, it does come across exactly as you say: as inconsiderate at best and insulting (to PJ & other actors) at worst. It seems he he really did think PJ's attention had turned to SFX and battles after FOTR, to the detriment of character development. But that he singled out the performances of his acting colleagues and friends - Elijah and Sean above all - as unsubtle is incomprehensible to me. Even if he genuinely thought they were unsubtle, he should not have said so to the media. I rather hope he has been misquoted (I've always liked Viggo, and I really hope he didn't mean what he appears to have said).

It would be VERY interesting to know Elijah's reaction to Viggo's comment (not that we may ever know what he really thinks). Or PJ's, for that matter (PJ has always been extremely complimentary about Viggo and his contribution to the films). Or Ian McKellen's, in the light of what he has said about Elijah's performance in ROTK. Elijah will of course be as giving and understanding of his friend as always. But how will he interpret this?

It will sound churlish to mention it at this point, but Viggo's was the one performance in ROTK that distinctly underwhelmed me (that was not the case in FOTR or TTT). He seemed to me unimpressed with his own role and made (I thought) an unconvincing Henry V - er, I mean King of Gondor leading his troops to battle. How close he was to Tolkien's vision of Aragorn I can't say, of course - I hope some others can. But it may well have been a reflection of his disappointment with PJ's priorities (Aragorn as a character was far less prominent in ROTK than I'd expected, given all the hype. But there's only so much you can fit into 3 hours and 20 minutes).

On the subject of people's assessments of performances, that IMDB poll speaks volumes about how the general filmgoing population sees acting. That is, it doesn't see acting at all: it sees characters it likes better or worse than other characters, for all sorts of subjective reasons. Sean's popularity is all to do with sympathy for film!Sam (yes, Sean acted wonderfully, but his role, I think, was nowhere near as difficult, or as demanding in terms of subtlety, or as varied, as Elijah's or Ian McKellen's or Bernard Hill's, for that matter - I'm so glad Kevin Myers put BH on his list of actors deserving Oscars). Of course I've voted for Elijah - but I hate such polls. They remind me of the ignorant comments you see on some boards (that's why I stay here!). And they are arguably statistically invalid, because you can vote for only one person (i.e. there's no distinction between those you like equally well, or nearly, and those you think are rubbish).

Carleenya

02-04-2004, 08:20 PM

Whew! What a lot of good new stuff to read, as always. Hello to all the people I missed (and the few who missed me!) :D

I still say that Viggo's performance in LoTR was beautifully subtle, but indeed there was a lot more action than interaction in the last two films for Aragorn. Except his relationship with Arwen, of course. They were always trying to get us drawn into that one. :rolleyes: I'm going with the "editing" theory that has been proposed - I have never been fully or correctly quoted when interviewed, so it's a good thing I don't have to do it as often as a well-known actor does. They can trim out the fewest words or sentences, and your meaning becomes completely garbled. As to the junkets Viggo didn't make where others did, I totally agree that the way he was hired probably gave him a much more lenient contract, and his interests are quite varied. Unlike most of the other members of the cast, who act for a living, and all that goes with it, Viggo acts among other things he does for a living. Really, he is a bit too much of an "artsy" type for me, and I probably wouldn't have given him a second thought - until I saw what he did for the Aragorn role. I think he nailed it, and I will always love him for that.

It was funny to see Elijah's jaw mentioned just now, as I noticed it when watching Deep Impact the other day. In one of the final scenes, when he reached the top of the hill and turned to look up, I was struck hard with the squareness of his jaw. At that angle, he had the look of a full-grown man with a jaw like you would expect on Dick Tracy. Very attractive, and I'm glad I have it on tape! ;) I think he's going to mature beautifully!

I think we should definitely get into grumpy's suggestion of a discussion of how Elijah uses his hands when he acts. It's almost difficult to carve out his hand activity from his body language, which we all decided a very long time ago is total and complete when he becomes Frodo. As carefully as we dissected how he changes from Elijah to Frodo and back again while in costume, it is still a bit of magic for me. But I haven't given a great deal of thought to how he does this for other characters. Right now the only other character that jumps out at me is "McPhee", in which I thought he was delightfully perfect. (And the only delightful part of that character was watching Elijah do it so well.) I must say, however, that like most of you, I really enjoy "The Faculty" and can watch it again and again. The character may not be immensely deep or layered, but Lij gets a lovely amount of screen time! :D

whiteling

02-05-2004, 05:03 AM

Carleenya! Good to have you back :) !

For any reason I couldn't bring the link to the Vigoo-Interview to work. But the quotes I've read of it made me: pffft. I really hope it is a misrepresentation on the part of the interviewer. I appreciate Viggo's Aragorn very much and can hardly imagine him saying all these oddly appearing things :confused: . Artists :p !

serena

02-05-2004, 08:03 AM

Hi Carleenya! Good to get to know you - and read your great posts.

This is still a bit OT - sorry! - but yes, I agree that Viggo was beautifully subtle. Yes, in the coronation scene and elsewhere he did the reluctant, peace-loving warrior king bit very well. But I thought he was a shade TOO subtle in the firing-up-the-troops once-more-unto-the-breach-dear-friends scene. Kenneth Branagh or Laurence Olivier he was not (which may have been deliberate, of course); I found Théoden far more inspiring as a battle leader. Aragorn needed to persuade the troops to go to their almost certain deaths, and you have to be extremely convincing to do that. He didnt totally convince me. But Im sure lots of people wont agree!

from zkgrumpy:
he was talking about Frodo and Sam and I doubt if hes read the books. Oh, Id be amazed if he hadn't. In fact Id bet quite a lot that he read them as soon as the part was offered. I suspect he knew what Frodo and Sam could be, and thought that PJ and the writers could have made filmFrodo and filmSam more nuanced/developed than they did. Not to mention Aragorn. But hey, you cant have everything and Tolkien did write the battle scenes in great detail, did he not? (I dont know Im just asking!)

More about web polls (sorry, cant resist saying this, and it does concern Elijah, so is not totally OT; some of it may have been said before, but I can't remember by whom). Another reason - apart from the one-choice-only factor - they are statistically invalid, and hence deeply misleading, is that the survey population is small and self-selecting and not at all representative of those who have seen the movie worldwide (only people who consider themselves film buffs mostly late teens and early 20s, probably mostly male and living in the US - would be looking at the IMDB site in the first place, let alone logging in). Even the polls at TORN (which favour Elijah a lot more, but still put Sean in the lead) consist of LOTR fans and are henced biased in all sorts of directions (unlike us, naturally ;)!). But the point is that such polls give the appearance of being statistically valid, and so people tend to believe their results reflect general opinion. Yet another case of lies, damn lies and statistics. (Cant you tell I've spent much of my life translating statistical texts? Not always as boring as they might seem. No, really :D).

Anyway, one dead give-away about people judging characters, not acting skill, in these polls (including TORN) is their treatment of John Noble: his acting alone is often classed as under par, whereas what the "critic" really means is that (s)he doesn't like filmDenethor (surprise, surprise). (As JN said in that interesting interview recently, most of Denethor's story has been omitted and so we see only the madman he became, not the wise ruler he once was. I thought JN did a great job with the material he was given.) So people fail to vote for Elijah simply because they don't like the fact that Frodo claimed the ring at the end, sent Sam home, had to be carried by Sam later etc. Plus the fact that there is (they think) a far more obvious choice in Seanwise. IMDB is a hugely, hugely misleading poll. But then no-one with any sense would believe it (would they?????).

Flourish

02-05-2004, 08:46 AM

Viggo was quoted long ago as saying he started reading the books on the plane to NZ and loved them (his son is a huge Tolkien fan and encouraged him to take the part of Aragorn). I still think the only cast member who hadn't read LOTR by the time the films wrapped was........ no way around it, he incriminated himself :p ....... Elijah Wood.

And I do think Viggo's been misquoted or quoted out of context. His enduring friendships with the cast (notably Elijah, according to Empire magazine) and his championing of the earlier films are pretty convincing for me, and he's far too intelligent to shoot himself (or any project in which he's involved) in the foot.

OK to make up for possibly spoiling someone's day with that (for which I'm sorry!), here's a link to that absolutely wonderful article I mentioned a long time ago, about why Frodo had to leave the Shire. The site was moved and someone's found it again--well worth reading.

http://www.geocities.com/karynmilos/toodeeplyhurt.html

Narya Celebrian

02-05-2004, 09:00 AM

Well, it appears that my suggestion that the Viggo discussion move to the Trilogy forum wasn't worded strongly enough. ;) So I'll try again.

This isn't the appropriate thread in which to have lengthy discussions about the movie's Oscar chances, the other actors and characters, or your opinions about them. KD is pretty relaxed about having some OT discussions take place, but this one has been dominating this thread for several days now. It needs to move to the appropriate thread.

Some of you did move your comments over to the Trilogy forum, and I do appreciate that and thank you for it.

If any of you have questions, PM me.

(((Faculty)))

tgshaw

02-05-2004, 10:47 AM

Serena--Some of the comments in your last post (and, no, I'm not going to tell you which ones :p ) make me even more eager for you to read the book! I believe you're going to have some very thought-provoking movie vs. book comments.

(((Narya))) -- Yeah, folks, it's depressing enough to have to read about that stuff in [i]one thread. :(

hobbityme

02-05-2004, 11:37 AM

This is from the Oregonian
by: WHITNEY OTTO

"The "Rings" trilogy is a marvel of modern moviemaking. Yes, it's extraordinary. Yes, Elijah Wood seems an eerily natural hobbit and his style of emotional reactive acting, complete with teary eyes, is a brilliant homage to Omar Sharif as Dr. Zhivago. All amazing. All a feat. Yes. Yes. Yes. "

Although the actual review isn't exactly a rave about LOTR (saying it's somewhat a date movie), I love that comparison it makes about Elijah. I've heard "Peter O'Toole being tossed around quite a bit when describing Elijah but this is the first I've come across one with Omar Sharif, which, I think, is a really high compliment to give to Elijah.

zkgrumpy

02-05-2004, 12:36 PM

Mea Culpa. Mea Maxima Culpa. I'm not used to putting spoilers on things that were released several years ago, but will try to do better. :::: hanging head in shame as Faculty frowns ::::

**spoiler Try Seventeen/War/FotR/Huck **

I watched AIW again last night. On repeat viewings, I like it as much as I did the first time.

I want to get some screen caps of certain moments - specifically, Jones sitting in the auditorium compared with Jones grinning (we had yet to see him grin, I think) in the "shut up and drive" shot at the end. He's no longer "blah". There's also a priceless expression when the kickback from the pistol knocks him over, that I caught last night.

I wondered what happened to Jones after the end of the movie, besides that he and Jane went home and made much whoopee. ;) I think that Jane reading the letters and laughing at how great they were is a hint. Jane wasn't the kindest or least critical person in the world, and that she gave that kind of feedback meant something. So although Jones put away his red typewriter, he was a good writer with lots of experience, however pathetic, and I suspect he went on to school and did ok.

I admire Elijah greatly that he has taken on parts that have moments in them that would make most of us cringe to remember them. Having just come out of that most awkward of ages, that he'd actually act in a movie about the embarrassment and humiliation of being 17 is remarkable. It's been said that he's very comfortable in his own skin; I can well believe it.

Hands:
I've noticed that in all four movies mentioned, there's at least one scene where the character's hands are prominently featured. We don't see his face - just hands and forearms, ravaged fingernails and all. Maybe that sign of imperfection touches directors as much as it affects us (or me, anyway). Sir Ian said on the commentary that he thought it was touching that Elijah allowed his fingernails to be shown like that.

In AIW, the scene I'm thinking of is Jones undoing the clasps on the trunk, lingering over some papers (the letters) and then lifting out the typewriter. His movements are deft, but in an odd way immature. It may just be that the way people with no fingernails handle things and pick them up is different from those who have them. Where people with nails use their fingertips, Jones (and Elijah, I suspect) use more of their hand, with more large-muscle movement rather than fine-muscle movement of fingers.

In FotR, especially, I noticed it in the scene when Frodo grabs the ring and says, "...All right, we hide it. We put it away. We never speak of it again". A person with nails would pick up an object like that with his fingertips - sort of like when the WIKI reached for the ring at Weathertop. Frodo used his whole hand - using his palm to help shift the ring from the table into his hand. Again, it's larger muscle movement, and has an almost childish characteristic.

In The War, I'm thinking of the scene where Stu opens his father's trunk and handles various objects before going for the smoke bombs and stuff. Again, he doesn't seem to use his fingertips - he uses his whole hand, and the movements seem both quick and deft, and immature. (Well, *I* know what I mean!)

There's a similar scene in Huck Finn where Huck grabs various items to throw into a handkerchief when he's packing to leave. Elijah was a child when he did those, but the way he grabbed them still seemed different than most kids would do it - once more possibly because of his lack of nails.

The way he grabs objects doesn't seem to have changed much from then to now. I'm not sure why I find it so affecting and endearing, but with four different directors filming his hands in the same way, I doubt if I'm the only one who finds it so. Maybe it's my own lack of fingernails. :)

~grumpyandpromiseIwon'tmentionV*gg*againhonest

Moondancer

02-05-2004, 12:45 PM

Sorry to go off topic and I hate to bother you guys but, in this thread there used to be a great habit of putting up clear spoiler signs.

Example:
**spoiler Try Seventeen**

**END spoiler Try Seventeen**

Could I PLEASE ask you to keep on doing this? It's really no fun seeing all the spoilers without warning of a movie you still have to see. *sigh* I really try to avoid the spoilers but you end up reading a lot (plotlines, opinions, certain scenes,...). Just give the rest of us a warning if you want to give your opinion about certain aspects of the film.

:) :) :)
Thanks

Edit: just seeing this post beneath this one:
[whine mode]
Come on, give me a break here. I'm on my knees begging you to give some of us a bit of warning.
[/whine mode]

Yowser

02-05-2004, 12:53 PM

One of my favorite pregnant pause moment in AIW is when Jones and Steve meet up again in the hospital and Steve asked "how is the arm." Jones slowly glanced down at the sling, looked back up at Steve and said "you f**cked her, didn't you" in that soft accusatory voice. The demeanor and tone was slightly chilling.

Interesting observations on the hands, zkgrumpy. I recall Elijah mentioning how he wished he learned to play an instrument though he does play some piano. Musicians, especially string players, cannot have fingernails and would probably envy Frodo's complete lack of nails. Because the nature of the instrument itself we become very deft at using the fingertips to complete all sort of tasks. Had Elijah been taught an instrument as a child make me wonder if his hand movements today would be appear less "childish".

Achila

02-05-2004, 02:01 PM

He actually does play a little guitar. And as a guitar player myself, I'm one of those people you described, Yowser, who has long nails but only on my right hand.

serena

02-05-2004, 02:56 PM

from Narya Celebrian:
This isn't the appropriate thread in which to have lengthy discussions about the movie's Oscar chances, the other actors and characters

OK, point taken, sorry! It's sometimes very hard to discuss Elijah without mentioning other aspects of his films and film colleagues and other people's opinions of his acting. But I'll try.

Hand acting: the first time Frodo picks up the ring, from the floor, he does it with his fingertips and then puts it in the palm of his hand. When he grabs it from the table with the flat of his hand, to me that does suggest "All right, we'll put it away and never speak of it again". It's a resolute gesture that I think looks right in the context. His hand gestures have never struck me as childish at all. They seem rather elegant, in fact.
And I can definitely see Elijah as a string player - pity he didn't get the chance to learn. But even for that, SOME nail might actually be better than no nails at all ....! Hope he's kicked the hobbit.

Edit: Forgot to say thank you, Flourish, for the link to the wonderful post-quest article. It explains his trauma beautifully, but doesn't mention that Frodo misses the ring. Hmm.

Tg, I hope you won't be too disappointed when I finally do read the books! Will really have to join the movie forum then. What a burden that will be ;).

Yowser

02-05-2004, 03:31 PM

And as a guitar player myself, I'm one of those people you described, Yowser, who has long nails but only on my right hand.

Hee. When I finally stopped playing the violin and let my nails grow I was so unaccustomed to them that I was constantly stabbing myself in the eye when placing/removing contact lenses. Even now several years later I still stab my eyes and marvel at its incredible self-healing properties. Hummm, if Elijah does suceed in permanently breaking his nail biting habits he might discover a new problem when handling his contact lenses. That's it, lasik surgery for everyone!

Brunhild

02-05-2004, 04:07 PM

May I delurk and make a controversial remark?

I think it's not really true that the Academy does not recognise subtlety--they nominated Michael Caine 6 times and gave it to him twice. OTOH, the Academy tends to value the quality of the role over the quality of the performance--hence they did not nominate Caine for every film he did :D.

And now look at some of the key scenes written for EJW by PJ&Co: Sending best friend away over a trivial if unnerving incident; sparing a traitor 'for both our sakes'; claiming an evil artefact with a sly smile; dangling suicidally over an abyss... I'm afraid that even the most nuanced performance of this pathetic array of cliches could not have earned him an Oscar nod. Unless, of course, he were some veteran 'overdue' actor like Sean Penn :rolleyes:.

I don't say that PJ & Co were wrong doing what they did. The films are a huge success. Frodo's very moving. But it's not The Pianist, if you take my meaning.

zkgrumpy

02-05-2004, 04:13 PM

**** AIW/Try17 Spoilers! Run away! Run away! **** :eek: :eek:

:::: shifting into reverse and making a neat K-turn to look at Elijah's hands slightly differently ::::

You're right. Childish is the wrong word and doesn't really represent what I mean. Perhaps "childlike"? Young? On the first page of this forum (very first post) is an avatar that is Frodo from FotR, holding the ring. Besides that he looks small, and his arms look short, his arms and hands look very young, almost childlike.

Good point about picking the ring up off the floor. I'll have to watch that scene again (Oh the horror!) ;)

I think that I'm not the only one who is somehow moved by the way Elijah uses his hands while he's acting. I think that directors/photographers also see something because they keep emphasizing his hands. Despite the nails, he's got beautiful hands and their movements are indeed graceful. I don't know exactly what it is but the movements often seem childlike to me, and endearing.

I'm trying to remember if, in at least the first 2 movies, any other character's hands were emphasized like that. Aragorn's hands (bloodied and bruised) are sometimes shown, like when Haldir and Boramir died, but it's not the same - he's not moving them. I can't think of anyone else.

There are two other actors with hands that directors seem to emphasize (that I can think of: Pierce Brosnan and Richard Dean Anderson. I'm not sure about Stargate, but in MacGyver, they emphasized RDA's hands a lot (maybe because he was always building something). I don't watch Bond much, but in Remington Steele, they were always showing Brosnan's hands in closeups like they do Elijah's. His movements were also quick and deft and graceful, but perhaps because he was in his 30's, not early 20's, and also much taller, his hands never struck me as childlike.

In the trunk scene in AIW/T17, I almost felt like there was a discrepancy between the adult look of his forearms (now what's the 20-syllable term for that? ;) ) and the "childlike" look of his hands. Just perception, perhaps, but it was another reminder of the conflicted nature of being 17. :)

RE: chilling: The one that got me was the look he gave Steve when Steve came out of Jane's hospital room. That was one mean expression!

I feel like I'm running out of words to express what I mean. Maybe I'll just go and watch a few dozen hand scenes from Elijah's movies. ;)

~grumpy
"...My God, I'm trapped in a glacier with MacGyver! We've got shoelaces and a gum wrapper - build a nuclear reactor for God's sake!" -- Amanda Tapping, filming Solitudes, Stargate SG-1, Season 1

Dangermouse

02-05-2004, 04:56 PM

It's interesting to note the attention paid to his hands. Before I knew about EW's nailbiting problem I thought it was really neat that Frodo bit his nails: it made it all seem somehow more real. it helped ground the fantasy world in reality, same way as scabs on Aragorn's knuckles after a fight, or the fact that the floor of Bag End was slightly scuffed and dirty. And it was somehow a touching thing to see: it emphasized Frodo's vulenrability and nervousness.

Brunhild: I am dying to discuss your comments, but I am afraid it would make me veer so severely O/T for this thread that I would be banned ever more, since most of my comments would have little to do with EW's acting ;) Would you like to discuss this in the Trilogy forum (Oscar thread in ROTK subforum)? Say yes, pretty please.....

shadowcatshadow

02-06-2004, 02:19 AM

Speaking of hands and arms. did Anybody see "The Bumblebee Flies Anyway?" Notice how big his bare arms are when he lifts that motor. Does a teenage boy or a Man have arms like that? Also the closeup of him sawing, pretty big muscles for a tenage boy. didn't he look more Manly there too?

And don't forget the scene when he looks out the window after freeing Rozzo. Am I imagining things, or did his chest seem like a Man's chest beneath his shirt? :confused:

How about his body when we first see the hynosis going on? Was that a teenager's chest or a Man's chest? It almost didn't seem real to me.

I was also a little shocked at seeing his REAL height when he first lifted the motor! :eek:

I was in Frodo mode, that's why. :p

Was his body Manly looking in "Ash Wedensday" and "Chain of Fools" as he was Manly in "The Bumblebee Flies Anyway" or do I need my eyes checked? LOL. :D

ainon

02-06-2004, 02:30 AM

Well, Brunhild! There you are. :)

Hobbityme, thanks for sharing the AICN transcripts. I scoured AICN for all Elijah and Frodo references after FotR came out and yet I missed the finer details of Harry's visit to the Faculty set. A nice geeky peek at Teen Elijah: asking Harry about the actor who's been cast as Young Anakin. Oh, those were the days when Star Wars still meant something to so many ... :p

Originally posted by serena
This is still a bit OT - sorry! - but yes, I agree that Viggo was beautifully subtle. Yes, in the coronation scene and elsewhere he did the reluctant, peace-loving warrior king bit very well. But I thought he was a shade TOO subtle in the firing-up-the-troops once-more-unto-the-breach-dear-friends scene. Kenneth Branagh or Laurence Olivier he was not (which may have been deliberate, of course); I found Théoden far more inspiring as a battle leader. Aragorn needed to persuade the troops to go to their almost certain deaths, and you have to be extremely convincing to do that. He didnt totally convince me. But Im sure lots of people wont agree!

Only slightly OT but it's still about acting and subtlety and relevance (not unlike talking about Frodo's post-Quest period, which needn't be spelled out too explicitly but has enough shades to be understood ... you gotta at least be impressed by how hard I'm yanking this to topic, eh?) - don't forget that Aragorn was a Ranger, albeit one raised by Elves. Theoden was a King of Men, groomed to be who he was. There should be a world of difference between the two. And there is.

tgshaw, thank you for reinstating the screencaps I missed from the Japanese trailer. Oversight on my part, plus genuine concern that my ripway.com host would be over-burdened by the pics I was already posted. :o Those two are still angsty! :D

Meanwhile, most of us would have already read Elijah's RotK Interview Junket stuff.

http://www.warofthering.net/specialnewspages/elijahjunketinterview.php

Warofthering.net also has the audio wav files of the interview. Good quality, and he's clear and articulate. :) Right click and save.

Elijah Interview Junket 1 (http://www.warofthering.net/downloads/lajunketinterviews/junketthirdset/001elijahlajunket120031203.wav)

Elijah Interview Junket 2 (http://www.warofthering.net/downloads/lajunketinterviews/junketthirdset/002elijahlajunket220031203.wav)

And the New Line Awards site has added another video: "A Filmmaker's Journey: Making the Return of the King". We get a glimpse of the beacon scene! :cool:

And, there's news about Hurricane Frodo (http://www.theroyalgazette.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20040205/NEWS/102050078). :)

Achila

02-06-2004, 06:31 AM

Thanks for letting us know about the addition to the New Line site -- wow -- great! I also watched the two clips, "Here at the End of all things" and "Coronation" again, and I'm sitting here in tears (it's amazing how just a few seconds of both those scenes can reduce me to a puddle of mush!). The coronation in particular has always struck me as a little mini-tour-de-force for Elijah. It's like watching a blitz of emotions one after the other as Frodo first looks around feeling embarrassed at the attention, then starts to feel undeserving of it, then a small measure of pride. It reminds me a little of the scene I call "beautiful boy crying on the beach" at the end of FOTR, when Frodo gathers his courage to leave the Fellowship. There too, you can watch Elijah run through the whole gamut of feelings Frodo would have at that point -- fear, uncertainty, grief when he hears Gandalf's voice, and finally resolve -- all within a space of a few seconds. Of course, Elijah's eyes are extremely expressive in those scenes but it's his mouth that especially fascinates me.

wood

02-06-2004, 07:25 AM

hallo to you all! i saw that someone talking about the movie
ash wednesday its screening here in sweden on wednesday
the 11th. i havent seen this one before is it any good?it got
3 plus out of 5 in my paper. ;) :) :cool:

Alyon

02-06-2004, 01:19 PM

Oh Ainon!!! A.D. and I are reading together and laughing. Simultaneous thought: So that's what happened to Frodo after sailing away from the Grey Havens!! He became a hurricane!!

(Is Galadriel next? Or would that be Gandalf? or is that just what they do to hobbits who get to the undying realm?)

tgshaw

02-06-2004, 03:37 PM

wood, you can read what I think about Ash Wednesday here: http://www.frodolivesin.us/id149.htm

Try 17/AIW spoilers

Regarding the "hand" discussion, there's Jones playing with the matchbook while he's on the phone early in the movie. Maybe just a nervous habit, but the movements are almost too precise and complicated for that (at least, as I remember them--it's been awhile since I watched the movie).

And on the "chilling looks" end of the discussion, the one that always gets me is Jones looking at himself in the mirror, flashing the lights on and off, asking himself (by addressing his father), "How could I have been so stupid?" There's a lot of anger in that look, but I don't get the idea that it's primarily anger at himself, despite those words.

End of Try 17/AIW spoilers

February additions are finally up at http://www.frodolivesin.us -- "A little bit of home" from the TTT EE, and "Out-of-touch football" from The Ice Storm. There's also a new book-to-movie essay, but not very Frodo-related (the next one won't be, either, but the one after that will--if I follow current plans).

I'm hoping at least some folks are of the opinion that it's impossible to have too many screencaps of Elijah's acting--After last month's six pages of Frodo not killing Sam, this month we have two pages of Mikey Carver not catching a football :rolleyes: . One of those scenes where I found much more than I expected--IMVHO at least as much due to Ang Lee as to Elijah. Another very detail-conscious director (in this movie, anyway), which makes for pics worth studying.

Originally posted by Alyon
Oh Ainon!!! A.D. and I are reading together and laughing. Simultaneous thought: So that's what happened to Frodo after sailing away from the Grey Havens!! He became a hurricane!!
Who knows--the last mortal who'd gone to the Undying Lands(previous to Frodo and Bilbo) got turned into the elves' "most beloved star"... ;) -- And that doesn't spoil anything in the book, unless you're reading the Sil :) .

ainon

02-06-2004, 07:22 PM

Yo, Faculty! Here's some nifty news! :patiently waits through the groans:

Remember the Japanese nifty theatre site?

http://theater.nifty.com/lotr/img/interview_pic_cast1.jpg (http://theater.nifty.com/lotr/index.htm)

There're cast video interviews now. Elijah's:

Low Resolution Windows Media (http://theater.nifty.com/meta/BB/lotr/int_01_64k.asx)

High Resolution Windows Media (http://theater.nifty.com/meta/BB/lotr/int_01_512k.asx)

My meagre screencaps from New Line's most recent Oscar-enticing clip. There can be plenty more! Pretty, pretty screencaps all! There's even a nice shot of Frodo's hands. ;)

It's a @$!# huge Shockwave file (12 MB!) though, so home modem users might have to forfeit their chance to see it. :( Thank goodness I have access here at work.

http://home.ripway.com/2004-1/63714/NL1.jpg

http://home.ripway.com/2004-1/63714/NL3.jpg

http://home.ripway.com/2004-1/63714/NL4.jpg

http://home.ripway.com/2004-1/63714/NL6.jpg

http://home.ripway.com/2004-1/63714/NL8.jpg

Btw, check out Patricia and Hewene's posts in the Garden on how to save the precious New Line clips for eternal viewing without needing to go on-line to the website. (((Hewene)))

Now to skip over to tg's frodolivesin.us to see all the new stuff. More Elijah screencaps, tg? Well, there'd better be! :D

honeyelf

02-07-2004, 03:11 PM

TG, I looked at your new pages last night, and enjoyed them very much.

I wanted to respond to the "Ice Storm" page: "Out-of-Touch Football." You said that Mikey appears to check out of the action and speculated that it might be a form of autism.

I wonder it might not be a symptom of/caused by emotional neglect. I can only speak from personal, anectdotal evidence so forgive me if I get a little personal here.

I am a lot like Mikey Carver in that I can take a "mental vacation" at the most akward times. If they'd had the label "attention defecit disorder" when I was a child, I'd have been stuck with it.

My father was a lot like Mikey's mom in the respect that he really only addressed me to tell me that I was being stupid, bad ...what have you.

So I'm wondering if people like Mikey and I check out when we sense an impending opportunity for failure/criticism? Thinking back on my own experience I find this to be a reasonable hypothesis; a conversation takes a critical turn and I either get VERY defensive, or just sort of step out of the action and go to a more comfortable space in my own head.

Just a thought.

Amazing what this lad has taught me! ;) :D

Honey!

Achila

02-07-2004, 03:35 PM

Warning -- contains spoilers for the Ice Storm

Thank you for sharing that, Honey. It's my impression that that "zoning out" is, in general, a hallmark of anxiety disorders. Mikey's mother says to his father that "Mikey's been out of it since he was born". She doesn't seem to be unduly upset by his lack of connection to the world, just accepts it -- which brings to mind Elijah's comment on the bonus track that their parenting is "whacked". You only have to watch the way he and his brother are forced to be wait staff at their parents' dinner party (and Mikey in the kitchen, subsequently drinking out of everyone's half-finished wine glasses) to understand that this is a boy who has coping mechanisms as a result.

To me, that's why it's especially tragic to see him so content and at peace while out in the ice storm. He is finally at one with the world around him, only to have it end in his death.

End spoilers

BTW, tg, thanks so much for your wonderful analyses and screen caps -- I really enjoyed reading and looking at them last night. I especially love the Osgilliath fight scene in T2T, and found it fascinating to really pore over what Lij is doing. Something I find interesting is that if you look at Sam/Sean in those first frames, his face doesn't appear to change at all where he grabs Frodo away from the Nazgul, while Frodo/Elijah throws his head back and opens his mouth, seemingly in agony. Really amazing stuff, particularly how their characterizations work together.

zkgrumpy

02-07-2004, 03:59 PM

:::: gnawing on knuckles to keep from writing too much ::::

...or maybe I could just shut the door to my bedroom so I don't have to pick anything up when my bro comes for dinner. ;D

Hah. I now have North, Radio Flyer, and The Faculty to watch. :) Now for some time to watch them! :(

Re Out-of-touch football:

I'll have to see the movie, but what everyone's describing seems to be that he's dissociating. It's a common coping mechanism, especially for kids who are abused (physically or emotionally) and can range from day-dreaming to dissociative identity disorder. From what you're describing, Mikey is dissociative enough that he has episodes at inappropriate times, and bad enough that he actually loses time, if he was still expecting the football to be coming at him.

Poor baby.

~grumpy (dad-gummit. Now I *HAVE* to go peel potatoes and clean up my room!)

ElanorSam

02-07-2004, 04:50 PM

Originally posted by ainon
Btw, check out Patricia and Hewene's posts in the Garden on how to save the precious New Line clips for eternal viewing without needing to go on-line to the website. (((Hewene)))

Thanks for posting all this. But, where is the Garden? Is it somewhere else on this website? (Sorry if this is obvious...)

Narya Celebrian

02-07-2004, 05:31 PM

ElanorSam, the Goonie's Garden is here (http://www.khazaddum.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=203189#post203189) , right in the Community Cafe. It's the home of the fans of Sam and Sean Astin. The info you're looking for is back a page or two.

ElanorSam

02-07-2004, 06:53 PM

Originally posted by Narya Celebrian
ElanorSam, the Goonie's Garden is here (http://www.khazaddum.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=203189#post203189) , right in the Community Cafe. It's the home of the fans of Sam and Sean Astin. The info you're looking for is back a page or two.

Thank you very much. I was afraid it was going to be something obvious! Sigh - oh well - I don't have nearly as much time as I'd like to peruse these boards or post.

ainon

02-08-2004, 06:00 AM

http://img-nex.theonering.net/images/scrapbook/12023.jpg

:cool: :cool: :cool:

p.s. Elanor, found it? :)

estella rose

02-08-2004, 06:04 AM

:) :) :)

And isn't that just the nicest picture!

Hi Faculty - I'm lurking away diligently, but have to say I'm enjoying the Ice Storm etc discussions very much.

cheers!

:)

ElanorSam

02-08-2004, 01:53 PM

Originally posted by ainon
[B
p.s. Elanor, found it? :) [/B]

Thanks for the pic. Very nice! Not sure if I am crazy about what Elijah is wearing, although he looks adorable in that pic. (The jacket has funky lapels and is a bit too long for my tastes. Love the red shirt, though. And I do love the way he chooses clothes that are a bit different to wear these events, even if I am too much of a fuddy duddy to always appreciate them!)

Yes, found it Ainon, thanks very much!

ElanorSam

02-08-2004, 02:11 PM

I am going to experiment with posting a pic. I have no idea how to do it. We'll see if this works (got it from COE and hadn't seen it before.)

http://img1.photobucket.com/albums/0903/pussygalore/2945242.jpg

Edit to say - YEAH for me - I did it! (Does happy dance - I will be a techie yet if it kills me!)

zkgrumpy

02-08-2004, 02:57 PM

What lovely pictures! Thank you! I was flipping channels and saw that something was on but couldn't take another award show. I didn't know that Elijah and Sean were presenting. Bummer.

Was that the same suit that he wore to the Golden Globes? It looked like green velvet... I like the longer jacket - it has a kind of 19th century frock coat look.

SPOILERS: THE FACULTY!! Run away! Run away! (also brief reference to ESOTSM and AIW/T17)

x
x
x
x

I watched The Faculty just now and I'm still giggling. It certainly wasn't the deepest or most insightful movie I've ever seen but it made me laugh, and, as Samwise said, "...and that's sayin' something".

The story was about as predictable as you could get, the movie didn't take itself too seriously (nice change from the preachy-ness of some movies), and you could tell that some of the actors took the characters as seriously as the movie took itself. As for Elijah - he played it absolutely straight, as if it were the most intense and demanding role in his career.

How could they have thought Casey was a nerd (besides that he was short)?!? Didn't anyone take a good look at those big blue eyes? It was interesting how they (director? Photographer? Elijah?) played down his eyes until the end. His hair was also different at the end - different look for an ex-nerd.

Jawline acting!

There were a few scenes, though, where they simply could not disguise the jaw and chin. EW was what - 17? In some scenes his face looked completely adult. In others, it looked like his nose still had the slightly turned-up shape like kids' noses do.

What a contradiction.

I'm concerned, though. Elijah could very well be type-cast, not as a hobbit, but as a nerd/geek. I would hate to see that. He's just too good an actor to be limited by a role. But three roles - Faculty, AIW/T17, and apparently ESOTSM - I'm a bit worried. :(

Taxes...nap...taxes...nap...

NAP! ;)

~grumpy

Rikka

02-08-2004, 05:12 PM

I love the pics!!! And I'm very happy for PJ... and for the boys, too. All of them look so happy.

And I absolutely love this new EW's jacket - so original and stylish. It looks like a frock-coat ( (((zkgrumpy))), we feel the same way again! ;) ) aristocrats wear in the mid of 19th century. From my point of view it looks very elegant. This is exactly EW's style. He's very aristocratic himself. And...oh, my Lord, the boy finally looks like a grown-up man! :cool:

I'm concerned, though. Elijah could very well be type-cast, not as a hobbit, but as a nerd/geek.
No panic, zkgrumpy, no panic! :) We still didn't see this "Spotless Mind" thing. But by the maiden responses, in this EW's role there is nothing in common with Try 17 or Faculty.

Achila

02-08-2004, 05:30 PM

I'm with you guys -- I totally love the look of that jacket (it's a little like Frodo's frock coat, wouldn't you say?) and RED! He really should wear more red - - it's amazing with his coloring.

hobbityme

02-08-2004, 07:46 PM

Those are some wonderful pictures! There's a lot more over at theonering.net. There's a beautiful one of Elijah watching PJ getting interviewed and there's intense emotion painted across his face and there's no denying the tears in his eyes.

I LOVE that picture ElanorSam! BEAUTIFUL!

As for Elijah getting typecasted as a geek, in Eternal Sunshine, he doesn't exactly play a geek... more of well,

SPOILERS

a pathetic guy who is a bit on the immoral side. Not particularly great with relationships... more of a dumb/try-hard kinda guy.

END SPOILERS

And of course, there's Hooligans.

zkgrumpy

02-08-2004, 09:09 PM

Originally posted by hobbityme
[B]Those are some wonderful pictures! There's a lot more over at theonering.net. There's a beautiful one of Elijah watching PJ getting interviewed and there's intense emotion painted across his face and there's no denying the tears in his eyes.

Um....I may be totally off the wall, but in the pictures over on TORN (not so much the one above), Elijah's eyes look like he'd been making rather merry - perhaps a wee Hobbit reunion? <g>

But yes, there were definitely tears in his eyes, however unfocused. ;D

::::: ducking rotten tomatoes thrown by Faculty :::::

~grumpy

deluby

02-08-2004, 09:09 PM

Hey Faculty, I've brought some screencaps from a TV special called "A Filmmaker's Journey: Making LOTR:ROTK" that aired this weekend. Unfortunately I don't have video-to-digital equipment so I have to do those off TV screen with digital camera. :o Maybe better quality ones will surface soon.

(click on the thumbnail for slightly bigger version)

PJ hugs Elijah after his last shot.

http://img1.photobucket.com/albums/v40/deluby/th_specialp08.jpg (http://img1.photobucket.com/albums/v40/deluby/specialp08.jpg) http://img1.photobucket.com/albums/v40/deluby/th_specialp09.jpg (http://img1.photobucket.com/albums/v40/deluby/specialp09.jpg) http://img1.photobucket.com/albums/v40/deluby/th_specialp10.jpg (http://img1.photobucket.com/albums/v40/deluby/specialp10.jpg) http://img1.photobucket.com/albums/v40/deluby/th_specialp11.jpg (http://img1.photobucket.com/albums/v40/deluby/specialp11.jpg)

Sam throwing away his cooking gear.

http://img1.photobucket.com/albums/v40/deluby/th_specialp05.jpg (http://img1.photobucket.com/albums/v40/deluby/specialp05.jpg)

3 hobbits doing photo shots. I want this picture on a glossy photo paper!!!!

http://img1.photobucket.com/albums/v40/deluby/th_specialp12.jpg (http://img1.photobucket.com/albums/v40/deluby/specialp12.jpg) http://img1.photobucket.com/albums/v40/deluby/th_specialp13.jpg (http://img1.photobucket.com/albums/v40/deluby/specialp13.jpg) http://img1.photobucket.com/albums/v40/deluby/th_specialp14.jpg (http://img1.photobucket.com/albums/v40/deluby/specialp14.jpg)

For those who live in NY, LA, SF area, the program will repeat next weekend and the weekend after. Here's the schedule:

WATCH A FILMMAKERS JOURNEY: THE ACTORS SPEAK ON THE MAKING OF THE LORD OF THE RINGS: RETURN OF THE KING

Los Angeles:
Sat. 2/7 Midnight KTLA - channel 5
Sun. 2/8 10:00am KTTV - channel 11
Sat. 2/14 4:00pm KCBS - channel 2
Sun. 2/15 12:30pm KTLA - channel 5
Wed. 2/18 6:30am KCOP - channel 9
Sat. 2/21 4:00pm KCBS - channel 2

New York:
Sat. 2/7 10:00pm WLNY - channel 55, WLNY - channel 10
Sun. 2/8 7:00am WNYW - channel 5
Sat. 2/14 Midnight WCBS - channel 2

San Francisco:
Sat. 2/7 5:00pm KGO - channel 7
Sun. 2/8 8:30am KTVU - channel 2
Sat. 2/14 Midnight KBHK - channel 44, KBHK - channel 12
Sun. 2/15 4:00pm KPIX - channel 5

P.S. It might not appear in regular TV listings since It's classified as a "paid advertising program".

:k

Mariole

02-08-2004, 09:37 PM

Deluby, thank you for those beautiful pics! I do hope we get to see some of these scenes in the EE.

Okay, who's counting the days? May until the TR is out, and then ??? for the EE?

ainon

02-08-2004, 11:44 PM

DELUBY! Light of my life ... :k Thank you, thank you, thank you. Never mind the quality, those are just beautiful! I'm so glad you shared 'em with us! That shot of Sam throwing away his cooking gear while Frodo watches - call me crazy but okay, I could be on the verge of tears just from that!

I have some screencaps to share, at least for those who have yet to see the trailer for this movie:

http://ffmedia.ign.com/filmforce/image/eternalsunshine_1-sheet_288.jpg

I happen to now have a DVD copy of a movie that came with the trailer for ESotSM, so I capped the few Elijah shots in it.

http://home.ripway.com/2004-1/63714/ESotSM_331.jpg

SPOILER IMAGES FOR ESotSM

ESotSM Elijah Wood (http://home.ripway.com/2004-1/63714/ESotSM_334.jpg)

ESotSM Elijah Wood 1 (http://home.ripway.com/2004-1/63714/ESotSM_337.jpg)

ESotSM Elijah Wood 2 (http://home.ripway.com/2004-1/63714/ESotSM_339.jpg)

ESotSM Elijah Wood 3 (http://home.ripway.com/2004-1/63714/ESotSM_340.jpg)

ESotSM Elijah Wood 4 (http://home.ripway.com/2004-1/63714/ESotSM_341.jpg)

Originally posted by zkgrumpy
Um....I may be totally off the wall, but in the pictures over on TORN (not so much the one above), Elijah's eyes look like he'd been making rather merry - perhaps a wee Hobbit reunion? <g>

But yes, there were definitely tears in his eyes, however unfocused. ;D

::::: ducking rotten tomatoes thrown by Faculty :::::

LOL!

http://img-nex.theonering.net/images/scrapbook/12032.jpg

Maeglian

02-09-2004, 01:15 AM

Posting on the run to work:

***Hugs Deluby***

Thank you, thank you, - those pictures are fabulous! :) :k

(I notified the Harem about them - hope you don't mind! )

shadowcatshadow

02-09-2004, 01:56 AM

Those are pretty strange pictures. :eek:

What is he playing? the Totally Messed up Character he always wanted to play? :D

Plus I am curious about the term, Adult like forearms that Somebody mentioned describes Elijah's arms when he pulls on the steamer trunk in "Try Seventeen." I really need a picture of this. Does this mean he has Popeye arms? LOL.

I once saw a strange drawing of Bilbo Baggins when I saw the cover of the comic book "The Hobbit." Bilbo had a 12 year old face, but his hand and forearm were big and beefy like a man's would be. I thought of Elijah in this way when I first read that strange post about "Try Seventeen." Then I laughed. :D

Speaking of hands,of course his look childlike. he's a short man with small bones. But he sure is a handsome good sized man too.
has anyone ever thought that small hands like that could be a Blessing and that a small man can sometimes OUTmanly a biggerone? As in Peirce Brosnes size? Isn't Orlando Bloom the same height? Imagine Legolas as the Ringbearer instead. LOL. :D

zkgrumpy

02-09-2004, 02:04 AM

Radio flyer spoilers! Run away! Run away!

Well, I just watched Radio Flyer. What a strange movie. Very dark topic; light treatment, light cutesy score, good depiction of being a kid at that time, brutal topic.

Was there any significance that the only time we saw "The King"'s face was when he grabbed Mike on the cliff?

Hanks about whacked us over the head with "History is in the mind of the teller, and that's how I remember it". But what really happened? Did Bobby never exist? Was Mike dissociating and Bobby was a product of that state of mind and Bobby's departure was closing the book on that dissociation? Was Mike simply old enough to deal with it, like the Buffalo said, and sent Bobby away? Did he make up a little brother instead of an imaginary friend? Or did the stepdad kill Bobby and Mike just went into denial over it? And if either of those were true, would he be sitting calmly telling his kids a story? Or did they really build the flyer, it went over the cliff and crashed? And what about the postcards? Were those a figment of Mike's imagination? And Samson?

:::: going to bed scratching head over this one ::::

I have a feeling that The Wee Lad made it possible for movies to be made that couldn't have been made otherwise. But I can't help wonder how much of the subject of the movie the kid actors understood, and how much it has to do with the comment by several LotR cast that Elijah has the soul of a very old man. How would making movies like that affect a child actor?

~grumpy (Geez it's 3 am!)

wood

02-09-2004, 05:53 AM

HALLO!!
i just love all the pics of elijah it semes like i cant get enough
of looking at him!!

i have a little question to you
will etarnel sunshine be showing every were in the world
like here in sweden and when will it be realest anybody now???y:eek: :k :rolleyes: ;) :D

Moondancer

02-09-2004, 06:34 AM

Wood,
as it is a movie with a couple of big stars as lead actors (Jim Carrey, Winsley,..) and it has already received some attention , I assume that it's going to be released world wide.

When Elijah was in Japan for the ROTK premiere, remember that he wore that suit with the trees on it?
There are screencaps, sent to the Always and Forever site - with a view of the back of his vest. It's an interesting design.
They also have a transcript for one of his tv appearances on Japanese tv:
http://www.nhk.or.jp/night/data.html#006

** spoilers - radio flyer **
But I can't help wonder how much of the subject of the movie the kid actors understood, and how much it has to do with the comment by several LotR cast that Elijah has the soul of a very old man. How would making movies like that affect a child actor?
That's a question that's been on my mind also. Has Elijah talked about this in one of his earlier interviews?
Elijah hardly ever did kids movies (Huck Finn, Flipper,...). I think this is why he's managing to outgrow his childstar status. He must have received a lot of typical scripts for kids movies but some of the choices he made sure are interesting.
But...to return to your question...how did movies with dark themes like Radio Flyer, The War, The Good Son,...affect him as a kid.
I think he was able to do it because of some of the things that's been talked about before in this thread.
He's never really been a method actor, so he does not identify with the characters, he does not really get inside their skin and imagine how things would affect him as a person, how he (as a kid back then) would react to certain painful situations.
He's just telling the story of this kid and he does not need to feel the emotions - as if they were happening to himself - to play the character.
From what I remember of it: the way the adult (Hanks) tells the story is the way he wants to remember it.
I have only seen that movie once ( I can't get my hands on a copy at the moment + my video store no longer has it :( ), but from that one viewing, I thought that his kid brother died. He sees this as a failure as his big brother and protector and he somehow has to cope with this, so, he fantasizes about the radio flyer and he likes to dream of some better ending than the cruel death his kid brother might have suffered. He desperately wanted his brother to escape his fate so he dreams about a possible escape.
But...maybe I need to see the movie again and my memory is playing tricks on me.
:p

Elwen

02-09-2004, 06:57 AM

Originally posted by wood
HALLO!!
i just love all the pics of elijah it semes like i cant get enough
of looking at him!!

i have a little question to you
will etarnel sunshine be showing every were in the world
like here in sweden and when will it be realest anybody now???y:eek: :k :rolleyes: ;) :D

Well, let a lurker help you out. It hasn't yet got a release date here in the UK but it does in Sweden: 19th March.

Check it out at imdb (http://uk.imdb.com/title/tt0338013/releaseinfo) which is always the best place to find such things.

Elwen :)

Narya Celebrian

02-09-2004, 06:57 AM

Radio Flyer is one of the movies I really want to see, but it just hasn't been available here. I'm hoping that now that Flipper and The Good Son have been released on DVD, that's a sign that more of EW's older movies will emerge soon.

Deluby, thanks for posting those great pictures! :k

Also, I see that some of you do not have PM's enabled - zkgrumpy and wood on this page, at least. Can you please go to the User CP box at the top of the page, and use Edit Options to enable your PM's? This lets me have a private word with you if there's something I need to talk to you about that doesn't need to be posted in the thread. Thanks!

tgshaw

02-09-2004, 07:56 AM

Originally posted by Narya Celebrian
Radio Flyer is one of the movies I really want to see, but it just hasn't been available here. I'm hoping that now that Flipper and The Good Son have been released on DVD, that's a sign that more of EW's older movies will emerge soon.
Narya, I have the same hope--especially for Radio Flyer since it is, actually, a good movie (other ones still available only on VHS are Paradise, North, and Child in the Night--and, of course, Day-O is still absent in any form :( ).

Thanks to everyone who posted pics. Deluby, could I ask what in the world is going on in the shot where Billy and Dom are laughing and Elijah's above them with his head out of the frame? :confused: It's very nice to get a couple more looks at Frodo's elegant post-quest cloak :) , even though Elijah's modeling it for him ;) .

----------------

On Radio Flyer--to grumpy and Moondancer, and anyone else who's watched it recently:

Ohmyohmyohmyohmy--We have a couple of options here. Do you want to do a bit of a search through the thread to read some of the earlier discussion (especially on the ending), or are there enough new people that we should start the topic again? I don't have time right now, but if you want I can re-post what I read about the original ending, which was much clearer than the one that was actually used, and the reason it was changed.

Radio Flyer spoilers

grumpy, my take on never seeing the King's face is that the story's being told from a child's POV, and, even more, an abused child's POV [whether physically abused or not, Elijah's character was certainly in an abusive situation], so the face would very likely be something he either honestly doesn't remember, or has blanked out of his memory.

And, Moondancer, Elijah actually did an interview at the time of Radio Flyer. I don't remember a lot about it (that interview and the info on the changed ending were both on a website that no longer exists, and I never thought to save them before it disappeared :o ). But the one thing I remember certainly sounds like an early version of Elijah's connecting-with-the-character type of acting. The interviewer asked him how he was able to act one of the more traumatic scenes, and he said the director told him that "I want to help my little brother and I can't." That seems to me, anyway, to be the way he still does it much of the time (although the skill has developed since then!!). That is, if he knows what situation the character is in, he can approach the emotion from the character's POV rather than his own. IMVHO, that's how he's able to show so clearly emotions that he personally has never felt, which he had to do in spades when playing Frodo.

End of Radio Flyer spoilers

Moondancer

02-09-2004, 08:08 AM

We have a couple of options here. Do you want to do a bit of a search through the thread to read some of the earlier discussion (especially on the ending), or are there enough new people that we should start the topic again? I don't have time right now, but if you want I can re-post what I read about the original ending, which was much clearer than the one that was actually used, and the reason it was changed.
There was another ending? OK...don't know about the other newbies but I'm interested.
Would you please re-post it or point us to the right direction in this thread (whatever is easier)?

tgshaw

02-09-2004, 08:21 AM

Moondancer--I have to beg off on account of no time right now, but I'll take care of it later on today (unless someone else has a chance to find the earlier discussion first). BTW, you were posting while I was adding a paragraph responding to what you'd asked about any interviews Elijah'd had about Radio Flyer... just in case you want to back up and read it :) ...

Moondancer

02-09-2004, 09:16 AM

Take your time, tgshaw. :)

One actor who seems to have a similar approach to acting is Russell Crowe, even if they are completely different actors.
Reading interviews of how he does his job and how he portrays characters reminds me a lot of the EJW approach.

Remember The Beautiful Mind? Now, that movie was flawed in my opinion. The time jumps broke the storyline too much, it was not done subtly enough, too crude. It's a fascinating subject but they didn't touch the very core of the disease. For me, it was only a joy to watch because of the acting skills of Russell.
You see, I had an uncle, who was a paranoid schizophrenic and he was only a couple of years older than Russell's character. So, they must have received the same sort of treatment (I wanted to see more of that in the movie but we didn't get it...:( )
The thing is, my uncle had certain odd habits - strange body movements (the way he held his hands, head, twitched his mouth,...the way he walked,...). Russell did this so perfectly, it was amazing to watch. It was like seeing my dear old uncle. In an interview, he said that these were side-effects of the medication and treatment those patients received back then. I didn't know that, so it was interesting to hear that the treatment was to blame for my uncle's odd body movements.

Anyway, this is a very difficult role to play. It's a very odd and complicated mindset. Schizophrenia is a very cruel disease (IMHO). So, reporters asked him if he took his character home with him. Did it affect his private life.
Russell smiled and made a joke about him acting like a schizophrenic towards his friends but, - (and I'm paraphrasing here) - "no, it's just acting, mate. The moment the camera stops roling, I shake it off. I don't take the character with me. I'm not a method actor and I don't need to hold the mindset of the character 24/7."
As I said, Elijah's a completely different actor but Russell Crowe is also known as an "eye-actor". Meaning that he does not need a lot of words to express himself and he can put a lot of different emotions in his eyes.
So, I wonder if - by not being method actors and thus having a more indirect approach - it's easier for actors such as Elijah Wood and Russell Crowe to display a wide variety of emotions.
It seems easier* to show a character in pain, rage, anger,...when it's not you that's affected by it (or you don't have to imagine the direct effect of that particular situation on yourself).
(* "easier" is not exactly the word I'm looking for but it'll have to do for now)

Or...am I wrong? I'm not saying that method actors can't show emotions but I admire the fact that non-method actors can keep that distance.
I have only very, very limited acting experience. But, I had to take the method acting approach (or my attempts of doing so). I had to put myself through the emotions and that's a weird experience if you have to portray certain things. It always seems safer (and possibly less hurtful) to do it from the outside but I wasn't able to do that.
Others (like Rikka) know much, much more about method acting. Maybe they can enlighten me about this topic?

Rikka

02-09-2004, 10:01 AM

Moondancer,
I'm not a big specialist in a theory of American Method acting. I studied something about it only in comparison with it's precursor and basis - Russian Stanislavsky System of actor's training... And it was 15 years ago. ;)

Well, the only thing I can say on your question... After reading EW's explanation about his way of acting and working on role I'm ready to admit that he doesn't use typicals mods of Method's training.

It's funny, but it seems to me that the boy rather uses (instinctively?) the Stanislavsky System's mods! Wood told once interview that during LOTR filming, even living his everyday life he tried no find out and understand how Frodo would react and feel in this situation or that... Also PJ said many times that they discussed a lot with EW what's going on with Frodo on his journey, how does he change - inwardly and outwardly...

That's exactly how Stanislavsky (the great Russian theater director and reformer of theater art of late 19th - early 20th cent.) tried to teach and conduct his actors. You need to learn and understand the character you have to play very deeply - his personality in all aspects, from how he moves to how he thinks, reacts - and through this you will find correct facial, vocal and body expressions for him in every moment of the play - and as a result you will "become" the character at the stage, die in him... This is a complete transformation in someone else, not "me in same circumstances" (the Method idea, as I understand it.)

Moondancer

02-09-2004, 11:05 AM

Thanks, Rikka. I must admit that I've never heard of this method before.

Russell Crowe is well known for his preparations. He studies his character, what he does, how he behaves. He tries to get to know his character as best as possible without identifying with his character. He asks a lot of questions to the director (and that director better be prepared for them)
But, it always seemed to me that Elijah Wood is much more of an instinctive actor than Crowe. Yes, he also talked a lot with Peter Jackson about how to act certain scenes but he does not seem to have to depend on his thorough preparation as much as Russell does.
It's well known that Elijah had read The Hobbit but not the LOTR books.
Sean Astin did say that he had read the trilogy and he used to look up certain sections in the books, to prepare himself for certain scenes. He said that he often used to talk with Elijah about how they should approach certain things and Sean added that Elijah seemed to have a better grasp on the material than he did. Sure Elijah studied the scripts carefully but he seemed to understand the material better than many who had read the books (often several times).
I'm also thinking of the DVD commentary for Huck Finn (something, I read in this thread). Little Elijah saw one of the actors ask the director a lot of questions about his character. So, after a while, Elijah started to do the same thing. The director approached him about it and told him that the other actor asked all these questions because he needed to do that to portray his character. Elijah didn't have to do that because he's a natural.
(somebody...correct me if I'm getting this wrong. I haven't listened to the commentary)

So, he does seem to be more of an instinctive actor.
So, to me, this is another 'How does he do it' questions. He must have his methods but I don't fully understand them.

zkgrumpy

02-09-2004, 12:41 PM

Originally posted by Narya Celebrian

Also, I see that some of you do not have PM's enabled - zkgrumpy and wood on this page, at least. ... This lets me have a private word with you if there's something I need to talk to you about that doesn't need to be posted in the thread. Thanks!

Uh-oh. wood, maybe we need to go hide in the gym. I feel like we've been called to the :::: shudder :::: principal's office!!! ;) ;)

Concerning Radio Flyer discussion: We've reached a point (probably not for the first time here) where we have two groups of people. There are the damppinkfuzzymewling~grumpynewbies (me :p ) and the long term members who have been through every movie discussion at least once, and don't have (a) time, (b) inclination to re-type all of their original well-thought arguments. It's a danger spot in some forums. I'm exploring wonderful new Woods, but for others it may be well-trod ground.

Everything's archived since this forum began, right? If Faculty members know approx. when something was discussed, perhaps you can point us to a range of dates? Or give a brief description and a date/page?

Darn. We really need The Lad Himself in here so we can pick his brains about some of this stuff. ;) Or a chat. Oh what a chat that would be!! :)

~grumpy
(Sekrit msg to Narya: They're enabled)

wood

02-09-2004, 01:07 PM

i agree grumpy!
or we just sneak out the door and hide!:cool: :cool: :cool:

tgshaw

02-09-2004, 01:22 PM

Originally posted by Rikka
...You need to learn and understand the character you have to play very deeply - his personality in all aspects, from how he moves to how he thinks, reacts - and through this you will find correct facial, vocal and body expressions for him in every moment of the play - and as a result you will "become" the character at the stage, die in him... This is a complete transformation in someone else, not "me in same circumstances" (the Method idea, as I understand it.)
Rikka, that certainly seems to me, too, to be the way Elijah approaches his acting. IMHO, that's how he can do things such as:

1. portray emotions he has no personal experience of;

2. show the extraordinary mixes of emotions that he does--How could an actor decide that the character would be, say, 65% afraid (with a specific kind of fear, of course), 10% awed, and 25% determined--or, better yet, come up with the complex shows of emotion that can't even be labeled?

3. move through said emotions and on to new ones instanteously when that's called for;

4. be completely in character in every frame of film. Many actors can occasionally be "caught" out-of-character for an instant in a screencap, even if the moment passes so quickly that it's not noticed by the audience; from what I can tell, this usually seems to happen when they're "between" emotions, or in the process of switching from one emotion to another. OTOH, in the thousands of screencaps I've taken of Elijah's characters, including every movie he's done that's available on DVD or VCD, and starting when he was eight years old, I've never seen Elijah.

------------------

This is going back into old discussions, but because he was able to do this at such a young age, IMHO there has to be some natural gift behind it. He's built on it over the years, but he doesn't seem to have initially learned it at any point. IMHO, this all fits the microexpression theory--that Elijah is someone who can "read" other people exceptionally well, by honing in on very small changes in facial expression, without being aware of how he's doing it. (The researcher who came up with the theory--but who strangely hasn't connected it with Elijah Wood's acting :confused: :p --says that a small percentage of people are able to do this naturally. He's trying to find ways of using it for lie detection :rolleyes: .) And somehow Elijah seems to be able to "read" his characters in the same way, giving us that character all the way down to his microexpressions--which would explain why his acting looks so real, and how he can "disappear" into a character.

---New thought ( :eek: ): I wonder if that has anything to do with Elijah being such a "visual" actor, and his ability to do facial expressions and body language naturally, while he has to really work to get, say, accents right?

*****************
Edit:

Well, this is plenty odd. I just did a search for Radio Flyer on these boards and couldn't find anything older than last November. We've certainly discussed it since we moved to KD, haven't we :confused: ?

----So, I'm editing in kind of a summary of ideas on the ending:

Radio Flyer spoilers

From what I can remember, in the previous discussion there were three basic ideas of what might have really happened:

#1--It really happened the way the movie says it did.
#2--The younger brother died, and the older one has imagined the letters, etc., to assuage his guilt, or is even responsible for them himself.
#3--There was really only one boy, who'd disassociated from the abuse so strongly that he "invented" a brother who experienced it instead of him.

If it makes anyone happy, the ending is supposed to be ambiguous :) , so you can take your choice or come up with a new explanation. (If I missed one in the above list, could someone please add it?)

I throw my lot in with #1, just because I know it was the writers' original intention. The original ending of the movie was very unambiguously fantasy. In the final scene, Tom Hanks and the boys are in the Smithsonian Institution's Aeronautics and Space Museum. When he talks about the letters, etc., his brother sent, he also says that the brother dropped in to help design the space shuttle when the engineers were "stuck." As he finishes the story, the camera pulls back and we see the Radio Flyer/flying machine hanging in mid-air with no visible means of support.

The ending was changed to be ambiguous because it was thought to be a bad idea to show a fantasy ending to a story about child abuse. There are still some fantasy elements scattered throughout the story, but they don't really affect the ending.

The way I look at it, even the "unambiguous" ending leaves a lot of questions unanswered (as good fantasy should, IMVHO :) ). We don't know where the brother "dropped in" from to help with the space shuttle. We don't know why his family receives letters from him but never sees him. And--something I find really interesting--he's apparently never "lost" his childhood (because he evidently still remembers the things that only children know are possible). So, although we know he has some kind of existence, we don't really know what or where it is. He might even be dead, but not in the way usually meant by those who pick #2. That is, whatever "plane of existence" he's on, the stories told about him are true--they're not made up or imagined by the older brother.

[b]End Radio Flyer spoilers

BTW, zkgrumpy and wood--One use for PMs, now that you have them "enabled" :) , is to pass on info or explanations to people who might have missed them previously, or which is so much of a spoiler that only one or two people want to read about it. But there are enough new people here to repost some of this in the thread--especially since the previous discussion doesn't seem to be here :confused: . If anyone wants to post parts of the Radio Flyer discussion I didn't cover, please do. :)

Brunhild

02-09-2004, 02:53 PM

Here's a computer age analogy for different approaches to acting.

Cue: You see a cool new program on a friend's computer.

1. Method acting. (IIRC, this should be essentially the same as Stanislavski's system. Certainly not the "me in the character's situation" stuff.) You try to install the same program on your computer and make it compatible with your other hard- and software.

2. Good ol' acting. You try to emulate the program on your system, although you don't mind downloading icons and colour palettes.

In this model, the acting talent is represented by the power of the computer and the quality of the OS. For instance, the EJW 81 system has a great 3D video accelerator while its audio driver needs an occasional upgrade :).

zkgrumpy

02-09-2004, 03:47 PM

Originally posted by Brunhild
Here's a computer age analogy for different approaches to acting.

Cue: You see a cool new program on a friend's computer.

1. Method acting.

This would be like an IBM mainframe OS. You access it through JCL, which is an absolute bitka to write, but if you can figure out how to make it work, it's unbelievably powerful, dependable, and produces good results. But oh, the agony! They've tried to make it more accessible by putting virtual faces on it - how successful is up for grabs. ;)

2. Good ol' acting.

So Elijah is a UNIX box. ;) Nobody really understands how it works, and you have to learn to use it intuitively, because the commands make absolutely no sense to the normal person, with names like "awk" and "sed" (one wonders what those guys were on when they dreamed it up and can I get some?) ;) But you can do just about anything with it, with minimal coding and a lot of parentheses, and it's completely portable to other platforms (roles). It has continued to grow and become even more powerful since it was first introduced on the EJW 81 model, and will hopefully be the OS of choice for many projects in the future. ;)

In this model, the acting talent is represented by the power of the computer and the quality of the OS. For instance, the EJW 81 system has a great 3D video accelerator while its audio driver needs an occasional upgrade :).

We can also add thatwhen the EJW 81, 1999 - 2003 version is running at full capacity, it is capable of influencing the emotions time use, and spending habits of vast multitudes, especially, it seems, of middle-aged women. Plus it's really easy to look at. The 2004 version has been installed in a new green velvet case that is considered a vast improvement over the 2003 model. ;)

~grumpy

Flourish

02-09-2004, 07:07 PM

Sorry this is on such short notice, but for those interested, I just happened to see "Radio Flyer" is scheduled to be shown on Encore channel tomorrow morning (Tuesday) at 6 A.M.

Moondancer

02-10-2004, 01:58 AM

Originally posted by tgshaw
Radio Flyer spoilers

From what I can remember, in the previous discussion there were three basic ideas of what might have really happened:

#1--It really happened the way the movie says it did.
#2--The younger brother died, and the older one has imagined the letters, etc., to assuage his guilt, or is even responsible for them himself.
#3--There was really only one boy, who'd disassociated from the abuse so strongly that he "invented" a brother who experienced it instead of him.

If it makes anyone happy, the ending is supposed to be ambiguous :)

So, for me...it was scenario #2.
It's still the version that makes the most sense to me after reading the 3 possiblities. I always found the letters weird and thought that the big brother (Wood/Hanks) made them up as a sort of fantasy about what his brother would be like if he was still alive.
Especially because they mentionned NASA. That's a typical dream job of a lot of younger kids: being a pilot, working in NASA, being a doctor,...That little detail also convinced me that the letters were imaginary. I assume that NASA does background checks on its future employees. Also, you would need quite an impressive education for the sort of job they were referring to in the letter and how is a runaway kid going to accomplish that and how is he going to explain his possible secret identity because he ran away?.
In the movie, his younger brother keeps in contact through letters and talks about how things are for him but...now that they're both grown-ups, they haven't even attempted to see each other again? Also, if the kid simply disappeared like that, wouldn't there have been an investigation?
but...again...maybe I'm not remembering it correctly

But possiblity #3 intrigues me. That's also a very good way to end the story and it also makes sense. The focus on the story was very much on Elijah's character, telling the story of his brother being abused. When I was watching the movie, I expected them to switch the focus to the younger brother from time to time, but they didn't.

End Radio Flyer spoilers

An index of this thread would be fantastic. There are some really wonderful posts in this thread and it would be great if the more established members could refer to some of those posts instead of retelling everything to the newer members. I haven't yet finished reading it - I'd like to take my time for it so that I can let things sink in, think about it. (maybe, I should have taken notes whilst I was reading)
I have reached page 150 and Radio Flyer hasn't really been discussed yet (except from the brief mentions) so, this was new to me, tgshaw.

Here's a link to a good review of Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind:
ETSM review (http://www.slantmagazine.com/film/film_review.asp?ID=959)

deluby

02-10-2004, 03:22 AM

Tg wrote:
Deluby, could I ask what in the world is going on in the shot where Billy and Dom are laughing and Elijah's above them with his head out of the frame?

I'm not sure either. :o As far as I can tell, they were posing for photo and either the photographer said something or Elijah said something(I couldn't make out what was said coz Viggo was talking in the voiceover) and they burst out laughing, and Elijah stood up first to walk away(apparently the photo shot was over).

Anyway, I did a few more if anyone's interested. :)

http://img1.photobucket.com/albums/v40/deluby/th_specialp17.jpg (http://img1.photobucket.com/albums/v40/deluby/specialp17.jpg) http://img1.photobucket.com/albums/v40/deluby/th_specialp18.jpg (http://img1.photobucket.com/albums/v40/deluby/specialp18.jpg) http://img1.photobucket.com/albums/v40/deluby/th_specialp12c.jpg (http://img1.photobucket.com/albums/v40/deluby/specialp12c.jpg)

ainon

02-10-2004, 04:38 AM

Originally posted by deluby
Anyway, I did a few more if anyone's interested. :)

Hmm. More of Frodo in fancy hobbit garb. AngstyFrodo at the Havens. HappyFrodo in orc gear. Meh. I suppose we could accomodate these. :D :D :D

THANK YOU, my dear deluby! :k :k :k

Brunhild & Grumpy ... ROTFLMAO!!!

Moondancer:
I'm also thinking of the DVD commentary for Huck Finn (something, I read in this thread). Little Elijah saw one of the actors ask the director a lot of questions about his character. So, after a while, Elijah started to do the same thing. The director approached him about it and told him that the other actor asked all these questions because he needed to do that to portray his character. Elijah didn't have to do that because he's a natural.
(somebody...correct me if I'm getting this wrong. I haven't listened to the commentary)

The actor was his co-star, Courtney B. Vance (http://imdb.com/name/nm0005524/), who played Jim. Elijah rightly admired Mr. Vance and kinda wanted to do everything Vance did, which included those intense Q&As which the director acknowledged as being a necessary part of the procedure even if he didn't have all the answers. LOL. Young Elijah started emulated Vance's Q&As, and the director thus assured Elijah that he didn't need to because he's already a natural. ;)

It's a very cute story. Hearing the commentary you can tell the director had a lot of love and affection for the kid. At one point he talks about seeing Elijah's face on the posters for LOTR (the commentary must have been recorded pre-FotR) and remembers that Elijah is 'touching 20'. Both the director and editor, very fond of the boy. :)

tg, I remember the Radio Flyer interview too but could it have been posted back in the blue place? Elijah talked about the stuff they put in his eyes to help him cry. :p

Moondancer, thanks for the ESotSM review, and for talking about Russel Crowe. When 'Master and Commander' came out, I read a TIME interview with him, and he was this ordinary bloke who happens to make a living as an actor. Far cry from what the less than friendly hype about him had been.

Btw, IMDB has Elijah's hooligan movie listed as The Yank (http://imdb.com/title/tt0385002/).

tgshaw

02-10-2004, 07:25 AM

Originally posted by ainon
THANK YOU, my dear deluby!
I'll ditto that :) -- The depth of the "third dimension" on some of those pics is amazing. (And I think the one of the three hobbits just posted answers a bit of my question on the previous one :p .)

...director had a lot of love and affection for the kid. At one point he talks about seeing Elijah's face on the posters for LOTR (the commentary must have been recorded pre-FotR) and remembers that Elijah is 'touching 20'. Both the director and editor, very fond of the boy. :)
Yes, this very astute director admits that he owes his career to Elijah :) . Huck Finn was his first "non-little" movie (I don't know that it can exactly be called big ;) ), so he had his reputation riding on it--he was also the screenwriter for it, BTW. And the movie is very centered on Huck. If the actor hadn't pulled off the part well, it could have ruined the movie and knocked his career off-track. So Elijah's more than "pulling it off" was very welcome. -- The director went on to do, among other things, the "Mummy" movies, which probably made him more money than Huck did, but he does seem to have some very fond memories of working on the earlier film. :)

tg, I remember the Radio Flyer interview too but could it have been posted back in the blue place?
It's very possible. As the brain gets older, it tends to compact time, y'know :p -- "Oh, I'm sure that was just a few months ago," when it's really been years :rolleyes: .

Maybe slightly spoilerish Radio Flyer comments

Moondancer, you're remembering everything just fine. The thing with possibility #1 is that in order for it to work you do have to take the story as a fantasy, which is what the writers originally intended it to be. So there are some things involved that wouldn't make logical sense in our primary creation. Most importantly, whatever form the younger brother's existence takes, it's not a form that would be considered "normal" in our primary world, so he can do some things that wouldn't have seemingly logical explanations, and apparently can't do some things we would consider normal--such as visiting his family.

With the rewriting making it more "real," it's not as easy to see the finished movie as a fantasy--which was the purpose of the rewriting. But IMHO, the rewriting doesn't make it impossible to still interpret it that way--actually, as I think I've said before, the entire movie strikes me as something very similar to magical realism, and the original ending would fit that very well. Looking at it that way would also make sense of some of the other "oddities" in the movie.

End maybe slightly spoilerish Radio Flyer comments

whiteling

02-10-2004, 09:05 AM

Brunhild (hey, welcome back :) !) and Grumpy, LOL, I just loved your "metaphor"!

Deluby, thanks a lot for those wonderful pictures :) !

For some time I wonder if the concept of Sheldrake's morphic fields could help to understand the extraordinary naturalness of Elijah's acting... prepare, I'll try to explain (*clears throat*) -
probably some of you know the story of the rats, which has been trained in laboratory to find out new ways of problem solutions (how to get to the fodder). Through trial and error the rats found their way and were following able to find the fodder easily. Then, other rats were supposed to do the test, and the new ones knew the correct solution without any trying. The explanation of this phenomenon is the concept of the morphic fields, a kind of cumulative memory, which connects any individual inside of a species and make them able to share all information. Rupert Sheldrake, a developmental biologist, has written a few books about this theory. I know it sounds weird, but I've experienced the effects of those fields myself.
From time to time I take part in so-called family constellations (developed by Bert Hellinger). It is a psychotherapeutic technique to reveal hidden family entanglements. Through the use of representatives, the person involved can observe the psychic dynamics of his or her own family, and identify the patterns which are destructive. I have been a representative repeatedly and it is really unbelievable: you become a channel for the emotions of the person in question, a person you've never seen before. You feel things you can clearly identify as not your own feelings. You are connected to the field of memory of this certain family system!
Anybody, in general, can do/feel this. But what, if (to bring this effusion eventually on topic :p ) Elijah has a greater ability to connect to the morphic fields of his characters than the average actor? The information about your character is the material from which you create the character's system and the more open you are to connect to this system the more natural will your acting be. By no means this process is an intellectual approach but a highly emotional one. But you become a channel for the emotions of the character, not of your own emotions. It seems to me that Elijah can easily slip into fields of resonance to the character, a quality he obviously had from childhood on. :)

Sorry, I don't know if this makes sense to anyone - What say you?

Here further information available on morphic fields (http://www.sheldrake.org).

serena

02-10-2004, 12:26 PM

Brunhild & Grumpy ... ROTFLMAO!!!

Ill second that!

Deluby, ElenorSam, ainon, thank you !!! :k

from ainon:
don't forget that Aragorn was a Ranger, albeit one raised by Elves. Theoden was a King of Men, groomed to be who he was. There should be a world of difference between the two. And there is.

Yep, good point. Saw ROTK yet again last night and watched Viggos Henry V scene closely. And this time he did seem more kinglike and convincing: clearly the Ranger learns fast or is it just me learning to see him with new eyes?
Elijah is simply heartbreaking. At every showing Ive been at so far, in 3 countries, there have been people sobbing audibly at the Grey Havens scene particularly. And people (female people, needless to say) who stay to the very end of the very lengthy credits. As Kevin Myers so rightly says, no-one remembers Oscars, but the LOTR actors are now immortal (like the characters they portray).
[btw, Legolass killer line is actually Something stirs in the east. A sleepless malice . Even better (worse?) than Id thought! :D]

Whiteling, you ask what say we, so I say this: how amazing you should quote Rupert Sheldrake! Ive been plotting for months how I could possibly drag him into this Elijah thread, and now youve done it for me! Maybe thats morphic resonance at work the fundamental interconnectedness of all things strikes again. Have been a fan of Sheldrake for years: met him in the Black Forest a couple of years back, where he was giving a weekend workshop on such topics as, yes, morphic resonance, formative causation and homing animals, and had a few long conversations with him over lunch etc. And we did a fascinating experiment with morphic fields, and it WORKED . will have to PM you about that one. (Hey, were you there too??) But to get back OT, can Elijahs acting be put down to morphic resonance? It could, I guess, if the characters he portrayed were, or ever had been, living people the organisms Sheldrake writes about. But they are not. So is Elijah's resonance with the authors, some long dead, who invented those characters? Or, in the case of LOTR, with the cumulative mindset of all of the books millions of fans? Or did Tolkien, instead of inventing his characters and sculpting them from stone, so to speak, just knock off the dust to reveal the creature whod been there all along, waiting to be discovered? Maybe Frodo really does live! (No, seriously, many artists have talked about discovering their characters or artefacts or poems or compositions as if they themselves were archaeologists, not artists, and the objects were archetypes, not creations. So did Elijah tune into the archetypal Frodo and the archetypal Mikey and Nat and Stu?)

Whatever the truth of that, I get the feeling Elijah can act the way he does, and could from such an early age, because he is as Andy Serkis, Sean A and David Wenham have explicitly said and many others have hinted an "old soul". A thousand-year-old soul in a (then) 22-year-old body, as Sean put it. Hence his uncommon insight into people and what motivates them. Andy called him incredibly tuned in (resonance again!) and very, very wise. What the actual mechanism of that wisdom is I dont know, but its definitely there in his acting. And it doesnt happen by chance. What Sheldrake demonstrates in his experiments seems to be an aspect of that mechanism the paranormal phenomena that are actually perfectly normal.

But thats such a HUGE topic Id better not get in any deeper (right now :D). Finally downloaded all the SNL stuff from Elve's site (Elve :k). Some of it is just hysterical even though there are tons of US TV show references I dont get. I loved the juvenile comedian bit (oh yes, definitely some CoF references there; funny how amazingly different the teeth make EW look - almost didn't recognise him!) , and the Queer Time sketch was hilarious (ha, take that, owners of a certain website that shall not be named). The Gollum sitcom was sweet. Some things worked less well such as the choir sketch, which was a bit cringeworthy, I thought. But overall, as I think Hobmom said, it really shows what a versatile actor our lad is (beams with pride :))

Lady Wendy

02-10-2004, 01:26 PM

Hi !...
***IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT !!***

Just thought I'd pop in here, after a little break, to let all the UK people here know that "A Film-maker's Journey", the documentary that those lovely screencaps are taken from, is going to be shown here in the UK, next Wednesday, on ITV2, at 11.30 pm...so set your videos to record ...

zkgrumpy,

We can also add that when the EJW 81, 1999 - 2003 version is running at full capacity, it is capable of influencing the emotions time use, and spending habits of vast multitudes, especially, it seems, of middle-aged women. Plus it's really easy to look at. The 2004 version has been installed in a new green velvet case that is considered a vast improvement over the 2003 model.

:D :D :D...(giggle)..yes, the New Look is a definite improvement !!!

Serena and Whiteling,
I'm finding the conversation about morphic resonance just fascinating....sounds like a manifestation of what used to be referred to as "racial memory"...am I right ? It also reminds me of the theory that ghosts are just a sort of tape recording of a traumatic event or emotion contained within the walls of the building...only to be replayed when someone who is sensitive enough to pick it up is there...could this be a similar thing, or even the same thing in another form ? Just thinking...

tgshaw

02-10-2004, 06:19 PM

Originally posted by serena
...And people (female people, needless to say) who stay to the very end of the very lengthy credits.
We've had quite a few males and females staying through the credits here--if they're still putting on their coats when the character portraits start coming on screen, they're generally hooked :) . I've occasionally told people near me, if they're ready to run out, "Oh, if you haven't seen the credits, you really should watch them." The man I said that to last Saturday thanked me afterward :) .

----To bring up another old discussion, remember when the people making the action figures said that even though they used computerized digital images of the actual person, they could never make an image of Frolijah that really looked like him? He was more difficult than any of the other actors/characters. We "hypothesized" ;) at the time that there's just too much about him that can't be captured digitally.

I've been thinking about that each time I've watched the RotK credits. The portrait of Frodo is lovely, but for some reason I see it as less like the living, active person than the other portraits are. I'd say the same thing about Merry and Pippin, although not to the same extent as Frodo. From the other portraits--and Alan Lee's work that I've seen over the years--I don't think it's that the artist doesn't have enough skill. I think, again, that there's just too much that can't be captured.

...Or, in the case of LOTR, with the cumulative mindset of all of the books millions of fans?
Maybe why so many have told Elijah how much he embodies their idea of Frodo?

Or did Tolkien, instead of inventing his characters and sculpting them from stone, so to speak, just knock off the dust to reveal the creature whod been there all along, waiting to be discovered? Maybe Frodo really does live! (No, seriously, many artists have talked about discovering their characters or artefacts or poems or compositions as if they themselves were archaeologists, not artists, and the objects were archetypes, not creations.
Believe me, Tolkien would take that very seriously! He was quite clear about the fact that he felt more as if he'd "discovered" Middle-earth and its history and people than invented them. And he often writes from that viewpoint--in his letters, etc. He described himself as Middle-earth's historian.

That point of view is also very connected with his ideas on "subcreation" or "secondary creation"--that when something such as Middle-earth is created, it has a form of actual existence. Not physically, as that would be "primary creation" which he believed only God was capable of, but very definitely some form of true reality. And IMVHO, Middle-earth is the epitome of that. I don't know of any other author who's put as much time or thought--or as much of himself--into a subcreation as Tolkien did with Middle-earth.

So, to get back to the matter at hand, if Elijah has a high "resonance" with people and places, and if we take Tolkien's belief that Middle-earth and its inhabitants do have some form of reality, I could see there being some kind of connection there. (I'd even consider including PJ in that, although I think he resonates more with Middle-earth itself than with individual characters. The locations and cultures he's recreated in the movies resonate marvelously with Middle-earth--IMHO, of course.)

On perhaps a more mundane level (or maybe not, considering that each human being is an infinite mystery), in many of the stories that have been reported about Elijah, it's clear that he's someone who's extremely focused on the other person in a conversation or encounter rather than on himself. He's the opposite of the stereotypical Hollywood "everybody look at me" actor. IMVHO, this gives him a big boost in being able to "read" other people, and to be able to tie in with how they express emotions. I think that fits with Andy's statement about him being "incredibly tuned in." Even Sean's statement about Elijah being confident and "comfortable in his own skin," would point to him not having as much of a need to be self-conscious as the average person does, which would allow him the freedom to "tune in to" or "resonate with" others, without having to expend too much energy on worrying about how he's coming across to them.

I find it intriguing that there are so many different cultural expressions of the kind of connection shown in morphic resonance. The oversoul of the early American transcendentalists comes to mind, but I know there are many more (most of which I don't know much about :o ). IMVVHO, when so many cultures find ways of expressing similar ideas, there's some kind of truth there--even if different cultures see it somewhat differently, and perhaps emphasize different aspects of it.

Tolkien would probably have called it the Communion of Saints--and I personally believe that connection was instrumental in the chain of "coincidences if coincidences you call them" that led to Elijah being cast (maybe his own high resonance had something to do with that, too). Tolkien was protective of his characters, and I don't believe his physical death would have broken that bond. I think he found someone he knew would resonate with Frodo rather than mistreat him, and, you might say, "pulled a few strings" to have that happen.

erendis

02-10-2004, 08:34 PM

Originally posted by tgshaw

The portrait of Frodo is lovely, but for some reason I see it as less like the living, active person than the other portraits are. [/B] The theory at the Blue Place is that the character skectches aren't Alan Lee at all, but quickie "pencil-sketch-function" Photoshop renderings of screencaps. I have no way of knowing if this is true, but it would explain why Elijah looks more lifeless than the rest of the cast. (and personally, I wasn't too happy with their choice of screencap for Frodo. There are better screencaps of him from RotK).

Alyon

02-10-2004, 10:04 PM

Dashing in....
TG Shaw:
So, to get back to the matter at hand, if Elijah has a high "resonance" with people and places, and if we take Tolkien's belief that Middle-earth and its inhabitants do have some form of reality, I could see there being some kind of connection there.

Are we all on the same wavelength today or what?? (oooh, I guess that in itself feeds right into topic). I spent my whole day fixated on this idea and here I come to the Faculty and find it under discussion. I love it. It fits into my imagination well-----though I have to twist a little to figure it out in relation to my evolutionary psychology, Darwinistic bent. Oh, but I'll work with it. I can work it out...it's too sweet not to.

Must run before I make any sense. The kettle is boiling...

zkgrumpy

02-10-2004, 10:50 PM

For those in the USA who get A&E on cable or satellite: That LotR special will be on tomorrow night on A&E at 10 pm and 2 am (Thurs am). Set your vcr's!

::: looking in awe at very deep thoughts coming out of faculty :::

There's way too much for me to absorb tonight - the most I can suggest is that we all have things programmed into our genetic structure or dna or whatever - I think that includes the potential for all kinds of emotions - how else would we know what to feel?

Elijah seems to have an innate ability to tap into that programming (now does he use C shell, Korn shell, or Bourne shell? Or Perl? :::: ducking :::: ) to comprehend and channel emotions that (by the grace of <insert name of deity here>) he has never experienced. Maybe it's what someone mentioned about being able to read people and microexpressions.

What ever it is, it's magical.

Down to earth, now, I just watched North for the third time. Maybe I'm just easy to please, but I *LOVED* it!!! Loved it loved it loved it!!! He was so darned *cute* but surprisingly grown-up and masculine. It makes me wonder if that was part of the character or if he really was that way in '94. Geez. 10 years ago!!!

I've read a lot of reviews of various movies that he's been in over the years. Some of the movies, like The Good Son and Radio Flyer, deal with some very strong and intense topics. I've read what reviewers have said, and (unless I read it wrong) also some here saying pretty much the same thing. I wondered the same in a previous post about the effect of intense subject matter on a kid of the age when he made RF and TGS.

I kept seeing comments about "this subject shouldn't be treated this way" (abuse in RF). I disagree. I don't like the tendency to force movies into certain channels. RF didn't strike me as a kid's movie - that seems to be true of a lot of EJW's movies. The subject matter was horrendous, but , depending on how one interprets it, oddly accurate. Kids cope with situations like Bobby and Mike found themselves in a whole lot of ways. It may be that RF was a portrayal of a coping mechanism - dissociation. Why is it wrong to portray what a lot of kids have to do to survive? The Tom Hanks character may have gotten to a point in his life where he didn't need the dissociation to cope with whatever happened, though he still kept the magic of that world that he created.

Mild ICE STORM spoilers:

I still haven't gotten Ice Storn; I'll be interested to see how that movie handles how Mikey coped, or failed to cope. I wonder if what's been described as his delight at the Ice Storm was because for once in his life he could be 100% in the present, experiencing reality. Strange reality, but reality on terms that he could handle.

We shall see.

~grumpy

ainon

02-11-2004, 12:39 AM

Radio Flyer spoilers

Originally posted by zkgrumpy

It may be that RF was a portrayal of a coping mechanism - dissociation. Why is it wrong to portray what a lot of kids have to do to survive? The Tom Hanks character may have gotten to a point in his life where he didn't need the dissociation to cope with whatever happened, though he still kept the magic of that world that he created.

The problem some have had with it (well, it's certainly the reason behind Roger Ebert's sheer vehemence against it) is that if we were to take what we see quite literally, then little brother 'escaped' abuse by committing suicide. :(

*
*
*
*Spoiler ends

Still on Radio Flyer, there's a many years old interview with director Richard Donner in which he was asked about RF, and he expressed what came across as surprise that some people would interpret the movie as 'there was only one boy'. He didn't rule out that he could put a DVD out some day, and if that ever happens, it'll be cool if he does what he did with 'The Goonies" - reuniting with his now grown-up kid cast for the commentary. While RF was no where near significant as Goonies, the excellence of the two child actors should be enough justification for such a reunion, IMVHO. ;) Joseph Mazello (http://imdb.com/name/nm0001515/) did an amazing job in 'Jurassic Park', even if we haven't seen much more of him since 'Simon Birch'.

/Radio Flyer talk

On topic of DVD, someone at TORC posted very interesting stuff from a SAG event that he attended.

Not sure if I can post the direct link ... some of the sigs that the posters have are ummm ... verging on not quite PG. :eek: :D My apologies, Narya.

tolkienonline.com/thewhitecouncil/messageview.cfm?catid=13&threadid=77911

from the post:

PJ said he's always thought it would be cool to have "actor's cuts" of films as well, and he mentioned that while nothing is in place, he'd like to put out another special edition when HD-DVDs become popular -- he said it'd be a real "filmmaker documentary version", showing deleted scenes, talking about why they'd been cut, blooper reels, audition tapes -- getting into the nitty-gritty of the actual production itself. He also confirmed the ROTK:EE running time at 4:10 (he just finished it, apparently) and said there's a funny easter egg on the ROTK DVD when Elijah is doing live-via-satellite PR interviews from NY with reporters in Berlin, and how Dom pretended to be a German reporter and started asking the most unusual questions. (Come to think of it, he didn't say if this would be on the regular or EE version of the ROTK DVD; my guess is the EE).

Also some talk about the 'taste of strawberries' scene:

PJ pointed out some practical concerns: they were running out of daylight for that scene and really had to hurry, so he ended up using 2 cameras for the scene, one on each actor -- and Sean pointed out how liberating that felt as a actor.

------------

posted by Erendis

The theory at the Blue Place is that the character skectches aren't Alan Lee at all, but quickie "pencil-sketch-function" Photoshop renderings of screencaps. I have no way of knowing if this is true, but it would explain why Elijah looks more lifeless than the rest of the cast. (and personally, I wasn't too happy with their choice of screencap for Frodo. There are better screencaps of him from RotK).

I thought Alan Lee was credited for the End Credits Sketches(something)? :confused: At least I think I read that. I only stayed through the end credits once. The rest of the time I plan to stay, then I get irritated by folks getting in my way and blocking my view so I give up and leave. :rolleyes:

I love that Elijah sketch though, precisely because it doesn't look like a carbon-copy of a Frodo pic. And it reminds me of Secret Sam Smiles. :) Then we get to Sam's sketch and it's so deliciously angsty - is it mere coincidence that the song at that point is at "Why do you cry?"

---------------

In keeping with the academic atmosphere, it appears that our very own Frodo Baggins has submitted an abstract for an international atmospheric chemistry conference!

ON CARBON ISOTOPE FRACTIONATION IN METHANE EMANATIONS FROM THE DEAD MARSHES EAST OF THE EMYN MUIL

Baggins, F.(1); Gamgee, S.(1); Sméagol, G.(2)(*)
(1)Department of Atmospheric Alchemy, Hobbiton Institute of Technology, Hobbiton, The Shire, Middle Earth
(2)Subterranean Experimental Station, Roots of the Misty Mountains, Middle Earth
(*)Deceased
(f.baggins@hit.edu.me)

A recent expedition to carry out a major metallurgical experiment at the Cracks of Doom in the Land of Mordor has been documented elsewhere. This expedition included a transit across the Dead Marshes east of the Emyn Muil, and the opportunity was taken to sample methane emanations from the Marshes at several positions en route. Sampling was not without problems, chief of which was sporadic contamination caused by downdrafts from the wings of the Nazgûls vile beasts as they passed along the flight corridor over the Marshes. A minor complication was the near drowning of the first author in a particularly noxious pool, but disaster was averted by the timely intervention of the third author. Despite these setbacks, several good samples were obtained. Subsequent stable isotope mass spectrometer analysis showed that the d13C of the methane was generally consistent with ancient anaerobically rotting vegetation. However, a distinct signature of animal origin was detected. This is believed to originate from the remains of numerous cadavers dating back to the Battle of Dagorlad in the year 3434 of the Second Age. The first authors inadvertent encounter with the spectre of one of these unfortunates during his immersion adds qualitative support to this proposition. We consider that our approach may prove of great utility in future archaeological research, particularly in the field of Second Age studies.

Session Number: S-14

http://www.igaconference2004.co.nz/abstracts/sampleAbstract.pdf

:D :D :D

shadowcatshadow

02-11-2004, 03:10 AM

Were there similar elements in TBFA and RF?

It seems that both involved flying objects thatwee created to escape. One worked TBFA and one was imagined RF.

Does anybody find it weird that Eljiah ALWAYS seems to give BOTH sides of the movie situation?

Elwen

02-11-2004, 03:54 AM

<delurk>

Concerning end credit sketches....

Since it is my theory that was referred to I might as well explain:

I think that the character images over the actors' credits (NOT Saruman later on) are actually heavily reworked screencaps. They are ALL exactly like a known screencap, and most are exactly like a known official photograh (except Faramir, I think).

Alan Lee, as far as I can tell, never works *that* accurately - just think of his portrait sketch of EW as Frodo on the FotR SEE extras DVD. I would guess that they took the picture, photoshopped it (not a quick job, but very artfully done) and possibly worked over it by hand, especially around the faces - some of the hair and shoulders may well be mostly hand drawn. But the faces seem photoshopped.

The reason for Elijah's picture not quitr coming out like him (although it is beautiful) is, I think, that it is next to impossible to get the eyes right. I think that is also the case with the actual Alan Lee sketch.

The *other* credit sketches are by Alan Lee wherever I can tell who did the sketch - but other designers' sketches might be involved. :)

<lurk>

Elwen

Moondancer

02-11-2004, 07:40 AM

Whilst snooping around on the internet (lurking on various forums), I came across a rumour about a possible future acting job for Elijah.

Now: I don't know how reliable this is and ...again...it's only a rumour at the moment but, look at this:

Posted by Nike1971 on www.comingsoon.com

Elijah Wood will be Saint Gabriel dellAddolorata

By corridor voices in the USA and italian cinematographic and ecclesiastical palaces, it seems that the famous actor Elijah Wood ( Frodo, in the Kiwi Peter Jackson Lord of the Rings Trilogy) could be favourable to make the roll of Saint Gabriel dellAddolorata (so this great young Saint has known in whole world), in a new great USA-Italy movie production for the big screen. By Zeffirelli, Scorzese or Mel Gibson as director. Its a secret now.
Saint Gabriel was the young Passionist monk (never done priest because he died, on alone 24 years old in holiness smell, in the Convent of Passionist Fathers at Isola del Gran Sasso, in province of Teramo, Abruzzo Region, Italy, on XIX Century, on 27 february 1862), which true saint life (not agiographic but real, based on a great Italian historial of Montorio Al Vomano City, in Abruzzo Region) is whole unknown, by faithmen and not, in the world today.
Young Italian passionist monk life, infact, was much braided to risorgimental stories of our italian national history of Indipendence in XIX Century. By the reason
Elijah Wood has decide to enter in new great cast (with the beauty Liv Tyler / Arwen), many critics suppose the LOTR world social impact in Roman Italian Catholic Church too.
Link to that message board: here (http://www.comingsoon.net/forums/showthread.php?threadid=24354)
The title of this message says: Elijah Wood 'will' be...
Reading the message, it seems that he's in the running for this movie and nothing is sure yet.
I'm also guessing that somebody picked this up on an italian site and translated it through one of those internet translators (you can get some hilarious results with that).

San Gabriele is one of the most popular saints of Christianity.
Information on that saint:
here (http://www.regione.abruzzo.it/giubileo/en/itinerari/sangabriele/)

tgshaw

02-11-2004, 07:59 AM

Originally posted by shadowcatshadow
Were there similar elements in TBFA and RF?

It seems that both involved flying objects thatwee created to escape. One worked TBFA and one was imagined RF.

Very similar elements, IMHO. I saw RF first, then saw TBFA, then read book-TBFA:
I also found myself wondering if the climactic scene in this movie [TBFA] was a conscious reworking of the one in Radio Flyer, or just an amazing coincidence. Then I learned the book this movie is based on was published in 1983, so would have predated Radio Flyer. But, of course, all three versions of the scene (Bumblebee book, Radio Flyer, Bumblebee movie) are slightly different from each other, so if there was any copying going on, I'm not sure who got what from where!

Also similar in that the hoped-for "escape" is for someone other than the main character. I don't know that I would make the following a direct statement, though: "One worked TBFA and one was imagined RF." IMHO, the events in both movies can be interpreted more than one way (and I guess I don't know what the definition of "worked" would be in TBFA--that is, did anyone really escape?--but any talk on that would have to go under spoiler warnings).

Things are pretty straightforward in book-TBFA, but very different from the movie (as the entire book is)!

Does anybody find it weird that Eljiah ALWAYS seems to give BOTH sides of the movie situation?
scs, I'm not clear on what you're asking here--do you mean that Elijah talks about more than one possible meaning in interviews, or that his characters tend to be people who get caught somehow between "both sides" of a story, or something I'm not even thinking of?

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I hadn't heard any of that regarding the credit sketches... will have to digest.

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ainon--I loved the abstract--most of all because it's real! I followed the link and it's a PDF of an actual "sample abstract" for an upcoming meeting/conference. I see--and use--these things all the time at work; the people planning the conference make them available to people submitting abstracts, so they can see exactly how to set them up (how to list the names, etc.) for the published proceedings. But usually they do something boring--most commonly using an abstract from the previous year. It's nice to see someone had a sense of humor :cool: (of course, from the link, it does seem that the "someone" is in New Zealand, which could help explain the creativity ;) ).

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zkg--Regarding Mikey's delighting in the storm: I think I can risk saying, without using spoiler warnings, that it's all about the molecules ;) .

Edit after reading Moondancer's simulpost:

I'm also guessing that somebody picked this up on an italian site and translated it through on of those internet translators (you can get some hilarious results with that).
Yes, I had a few LOL moments there :D -- especially liked the translation of "odor of sanctity."

San Gabriele is one of the most popular saints of Christianity.
I think this must be referring specifically to Italy. I doubt he's all that well known throughout the world. (Not to be confused with Gabriel the angel.) This could end up more interesting than Saint Francis, if it's done right!!

Would speaking in Italian be involved?

whiteling

02-11-2004, 09:05 AM

Moondancer, thanks for the stunning rumour news on Elijah as San Gabriele!

Originally posted by tgshaw
Would speaking in Italian be involved?

Mmmmh, Elwood parlare italiano... a really delicious idea :cool: .

The credit sketches: I think they look suspiciously photoshopped, with added hand drawn parts (as Elwen mentioned). Even Alan Lee may have some difficulties to "get" such an especially soulful, expressive face like Elijah's. In his case it is almost impossible (ahem, I've tried it :rolleyes: )! The whole thing IS more than the sum of the parts.

Serena, are you sure you have to PM me? Perhaps we should try to contact via telepathy ;) ?

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Holy cow :eek: ! We are only two posts away from 6000!!

Rikka

02-11-2004, 09:58 AM

Originally posted by Moondancer
(...) Elijah Wood will be San Gabriele dellAddolorata (...)

Well, if the story of this Gabriele fellow is good enough for good movie drama, this could be interesting... But from the other side for EW THIS would be exactly a type-casting... after Frodo. :)

honeyelf

02-11-2004, 11:00 AM

Rikka:
Well, if the story of this Gabriele fellow is good enough for good movie drama, this could be interesting... But from the other side for EW THIS would be exactly a type-casting... after Frodo.

Exactly my thinking Rikka! I'm almost hoping this isn't true. I don't want to see him stuck playing martyrs! That could really get annoying! He might even manage to wear out his welcome in my heart!!:eek:

Just think of Robin Williams and all those cloyingly sweet roles he played. I didn't see several of them because there seemed little point in wathching him go through the same paces over and again. He had to play the really creepy Stan the Photoman for me to go back to theater.

No! Give us something interesting, like "Hooligans." Elijah has proven he can do "martyr." Give us Dorian Grey, or Einstein!

Honey!

Moondancer

02-11-2004, 02:13 PM

Elijah is doing "Eternal Sunshine..." and his role in this is described as a very different role than Frodo.
Next he's doing "Hooligans" and from what I know, not exactly a Frodo-esque role either.
That's two completely different roles. So, he's not exactly looking for Frodo-type roles, is he?

All depends on the sort of script and director. Some big names are supposed to be in the running (including one Elijah really wants to work with):
Zeffirelli, Scorzese or Mel Gibson as director

A description of San Gabriele (see link above) (1838 - 1861):
Chronicles describe Francesco as a handsome, intelligent and witty youth, a model student and leader of fellow teenagers. He liked fashionable clothes and dancing. When he was eighteen years old he abandoned all this...
So, he sounds like a lively, fun person.

It all depends what they're going to do with it.
Do you know Father Damian (pater Damiaan)?
It's a great story of a fantastic and interesting man. Father Damian is born in Flanders, Belgium and went to Molokai, the isle of the lepers, as a missionary priest. He did more than just administer faith. He tried to give them a bit of dignity, saw to it that they got medical attention, built a church, a school, coffins,.... He lived amongst them and died with them (same disease).
It's a fascinating story and I hope that San Gabriele's story (script) is also interesting (again, if this movie rumour is at all true).

They made a movie out of Father Damian's story.
Well, guess who played Damian? David "Faramir" Wenham. :) :)
I didn't realise this until I looked it up just now (he looks totally different in that movie). Must try and hunt this video down and see if he does a good job. I wonder if he has to speak a couple of lines in Flemish. I remember that a lot of Flemings were displeased by the casting (we wanted one of our own actors) and the producers had to defend their choice. I saw it once but it hadn't occured to me that it's the LOTR's actor.

Faramir as our very own Father Damian. :D
.http://www.stfrancisonline.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=SFB&Product_Code=15636947133&Category_Code=TR

serena

02-11-2004, 02:13 PM

This is for everyone except Whiteling (she and I communicate telepathically :)).

Tg, wonderful exposé on morphic resonance, secondary creation and the reality of Middle-earth! Thats the first time Ive come across the concept of subcreation or secondary creation (which comes of knowing [so far] zilch about Tolkien, probably). But it throws new light on Elijahs comments about Peter wanting things to look real, as if it were history and not fantasy. Imagination is truth, OK! And as for this:

Tolkien would probably have called it the Communion of Saints--and I personally believe that connection was instrumental in the chain of "coincidences if coincidences you call them" that led to Elijah being cast (maybe his own high resonance had something to do with that, too). Tolkien was protective of his characters, and I don't believe his physical death would have broken that bond. I think he found someone he knew would resonate with Frodo rather than mistreat him, and, you might say, "pulled a few strings" to have that happen.

What a fabulous thought (fables being a form of secondary reality, of course ;)).

his ability to do facial expressions and body language naturally, while he has to really work to get, say, accents right

Alas, poor Elijah! I dont really agree with that. An American who can fool the entire British population into thinking hes English can hardly be said to have trouble with accents. Hes spot on in ROTK as well, even when half dead on Mount Doom. And PJ said, when talking about giving up the search for an English actor, But Elijah was simply brilliant with the accent. I could snap my fingers and he could be Frodo. My guess is that Elijah got it pretty damn right in his home-made audition tape, otherwise PJ wouldnt have been as blown away as he was. And Sir Ian said (roughly) in the FOTR commentary You forget, dont you, that Elijah Wood isnt [using his own accent]. Hes using a foreign accent effortlessly.
The problem with Elijahs Oliver Twist accent was IMHO that (a) a true Cockney accent is a hard one even for an English person to do and (b) he wasnt properly trained in it (not one of the Disney priorities, I suspect). And its really only his first few lines that grate. Richard Dreyfuss wasnt perfect either, though he had a good shot at it.
Huck Finn: the English accent was supposed to be bad, and it was funnier for that. Dunno about the Southern one.
The War: anyone from Georgia care to comment?

from ainon:
ON CARBON ISOTOPE FRACTIONATION IN METHANE EMANATIONS FROM THE DEAD MARSHES EAST OF THE EMYN MUIL

Baggins, F.(1); Gamgee, S.(1); Sméagol, G.(2)(*)

Love it !!!!!!!!!!! :D

from Lady Wendy:
I'm finding the conversation about morphic resonance just fascinating....sounds like a manifestation of what used to be referred to as "racial memory"...am I right ? It also reminds me of the theory that ghosts are just a sort of tape recording of a traumatic event or emotion contained within the walls of the building...only to be replayed when someone who is sensitive enough to pick it up is there...could this be a similar thing, or even the same thing in another form ? Just thinking... .
Yep, Sheldrake is definitely barking up the same tree even though I havent seen references from him about racial memory as such (or walls with ears he tends to deal with living things). The wall storage system is something Lyall Watson investigates in (inter alia) The Nature of Things about the magical properties of objects and well worth reading. Also well worth taking a look at Rupert Sheldrakes website at www.sheldrake.org, as quoted by Whiteling (thanks for the reminder, Whiteling!)
But yes, it could well take a specially perceptive person to pick up the Frodo vibes from the surrounding rocks. Maybe New Zealand really is Middle-earth, as Ian McKellen said. Maybe he meant it literally!

Elijahs SNL sketches again: am fascinated by the self-referential bits not just the Queer Eye sketch sending up the gay rumours, but all the stuff in the comedian sketch about his Dad leaving and him staying at home with his Mum, as well as the CoF bursting-into-tears bit. Very funny and very brave too. Not to mention so well acted I could hardly believe it was him (by which I mean he disappeared totally into the character, not that he'd improved!). Anyone else think he was wearing brown contact lenses in that sketch? (Sorry if thats been dealt with before.)

Elwood as San Gabriele? Could find nothing on Internet to suggest this (but as its top secret ;), that may not be surprising). There is something on an Italian website about a very Italian film on the saint having been planned in 1999, with no US involvement. Maybe thats grown into something a little bigger since then!
But Elijah being canonised again? Im torn between not wanting to see him typecast as the ultimate goody-goody and wanting to see him star in another huge blockbuster (despite all hes said about not wanting that). Oh, the dilemma! :D