Originally posted by ainon
What's the Quicktime method for screencapping?
Here's how:
http://members.lycos.co.uk/duckycc/qtcap.jpg

:)


and by doing so it'll give us these:
http://members.lycos.co.uk/duckycc/child01.jpghttp://members.lycos.co.uk/duckycc/child02.jpg
http://members.lycos.co.uk/duckycc/child03.jpghttp://members.lycos.co.uk/duckycc/child04.jpg
http://members.lycos.co.uk/duckycc/child05.jpg

:p



Some TT:EE news, apparently USAToday got an early preview of EE in NZ, here's what they say:

~~~~TT:EE Spoiler~~~~
http://www.usatoday.com/life/movies/news/2003-06-11-rings_x.htm
~~~~TT:EE Spoiler~~~~

They listed some new scenes, I like them over all, but not sure about a certain humor scene and one line, I guess we'll have to see how they play out on screen.


Happy Birthday, Voronwe!

deluby--Beautiful screencaps and a superbly concise user manual :).

Crazy TT:EE Spoilers
The beer drinking scene between Faramir and Boromir may be suited for the musical. Tentative lyrics:

Manwë'd like us to be joyful,
Even when our hearts lie panting on the floor.
But how much more can we be joyful
When there's really something to be joyful for?

To us and our good fortune.
Be happy! Be healthy! Long life!
And if our good fortune never comes,
Here's to whatever comes.
Drink l'chaim, to life!

(From The Fiddler on the Roof ;).)

Actually, these lyrics and music would've been a great alternative soundtrack for the Green Dragon scene in FotR:

(Frodo)
To life, to life, l'chaim.
(Sam)
To Rosie, my sweetheart.
(Frodo)
Your wife!
It gives you something to think about?
(Sam)
Something to drink about.
(Together)
Drink, l'chaim, to life!

:D :D

Umm, Brunhild? Have you seen North?

You can catch Elwood doing Fiddler on the Roof there! :D

And happy belated birthday, Voronwe!

Peaceweaver, I think Brunhild is our lonely dissenter when it comes to "Favourite EJW film" too. :cool: If I'm not mistaken, "North" is her favourite, - while all or most of the rest of us turn to LotR FotR for that distinction.


Spoilery comments and musical element
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Oh, I like those USA Today spoilers, well at least the ones about Boromir and Faramir!!! Providing proper backstory for Faramir..... wonderful :) :)

And the bit about Eowyn's stew and Aragorn's age..... hm....

The alternate "Matchmaker":

Wynnie, oh Wynnie, have I got a match for you!
He's handsome, he's young; - alright he's 82
(....and then some!) :D


Buuuuut: Not a *word* about added Frodo and Sam scenes in that article. :confused: Nothing about Osgiliath sewers. No feisty fighting Fro. No rappelling down mountain sides. Makes me worried.....

However, to cheer back up again, did you all see this little snippet that The Straits Times in Singapore had in their recent RotK coverage? (Reported by TORn)

Ian McKellen, who plays Gandalf, says the scene where Sam (Sean Astin) kisses Frodo's (Elijah Wood) forehead after he saves him from Shelob's lair is likely to make it to the big screen.

Oh, oh, I *wonder* if this is true! Here's hoping! When or where McKellen said or wrote that, they do not say. I hope they are not just confusing it with the Rivendell hand-holding! But it seems likely, given the "Pieta" that some of us (cough, cough) have studied more than once.

Gosh, am I looking forward to "Choices" and CU !!

I'm almost happy it's still half a year till we see it, because this speculative anticipation is quite exhilarating! :rolleyes: :D



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End spoilery comments & stuff


Deluby and everyone else: I bow down in awe before your technical abilities. Personally I manage to switch the computer on, and click on the "Internet icon", without any help at all!! :o :o


Edited
to take out a verse of "Far from the home I love" since it's already been used. I must be getting more forgetful than I was aware of... :o My bad!

I wouldn't insist that North is my favourite EJW movie--but if I felt like ranking his films, I'd certainly rank it much higher than tgshaw did :).

Maeglian--I tried to LotRify Far From The Home I Love on page 127 when we were discussing the up-coming LotR musical. My version was somewhat slashy, actually--a dialog between Sam and Elanor in which Sam explains how he needs to join Frodo at Tol Eressëa--with the father's and daughter's roles reversed w.r.t. FotR (= Fiddler on the Roof) :D. One more bit:

(Frodo)
Mithrandir, Mithrandir, plan me no plans.
I'm in no rush. Maybe I've learned
With the coldest thing a guy can get burned.
So bring me no Ring, groom me no Bill,
Find me no Sting, catch me no Sam.
Unless I'm your altar lamb!

Just reminding the Americans here with cable that Elijah is on Prime Time Glick on Comedy Central tonight at 8 PM ET. Should be quite funny since it is Martin Short's 'comedy interview' show.

It's repeated a few more times I believe. Check your listings.

Thanks, Hobmom, for the reminder. I'm going to set the VCR as I am expecting the rest of the show to score rather high on the lame-o-meter. :)

Happy belated birthday, Voronwe!


Originally posted by Maeglian
Edited
to take out a verse of "Far from the home I love" since it's already been used.

Aww, but Maeg, I hadn't read your version yet! <pout>

The Sir IM quote is from his White Book at his website. He was answering a specific question about it. Anyway, in the same interview that nurse was referring to above (which I can't remember where to find at the moment :o ), Elijah mentioned that all Frodo scenes were in the theatrical version, but truncated. So it's possible any additions to his scenes won't qualify as 'new' scenes. We'll have to wait for further spoiler-filled gushing reports from someone at AICN. :D



Deluby, thanks so much for your illustrated tutorial! :k But it won't work for me. :( I'd tried to copy but then I couldn't paste it - granted the only programme I have for editing pics being Microsoft Paint. I have a proper legitimate version of Quicktime but I didn't register. Could that be the problem?


But thanks to your earlier tutorial about PowerDVD I tried mine to play whatever media files I had on my harddisk. Version 2.55 plays everything! :cool: I didn't even have to do anything to those files - there's a wonderful long list of all the file types that PowerDVD can play, and all but Quikctime .mov files worked for me. Clearly Quicktime has something against my new hobby for snapping caps off it. :p

tg, do you have PowerDVD? You should be able to use the File option to watch the .DAT format that 'The Witness' is in, and you'll get your screencaps. :) I tried screencapping a .wmv clip that Elve did before TTT came out - the little Frodo & Sam one from the 'Return to Middle Earth' special. Elve, you're right about the poor quality of the screencaps, but I'm so happy that I got them that I'll shamelessly share 'em anyway! :D

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-6/93723/capture_10.jpg http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-6/93723/capture_14.jpg

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-6/93723/capture_11.jpg http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-6/93723/capture_12.jpg
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-6/93723/capture_13.jpg


A quote from Elijah Wood in that clip: "I was seventeen (sic when I left for New Zealand ... " :eek: The kid's getting forgetful as he hits his twenties. :D

Originally posted by Elvellon
I use an application called Toast, which will make exact duplicates of anything: CDs, VCDs, DVDs, etc... and it is very good at producing discs that will work with any player.

swooooonnnn


Looking forward to hearing about EW's comedy appearance!

I shall give a brief account of Elijah's Primetime Glick appearance.

One thing to note is that one of the key things for guests on this show is to NOT let Martin Short crack you up or get you mad or embarrassed. Elijah did admirably well on all points except that he did burst into the biggest example of "the giggle" I have ever heard. Very cute!

There were many jokes about Elijah being home-schooled, and mainly jokes about Martin Short's character(this is the usual thing on this show) some quite off-the-wall. Good funny bit about Elijah being nicknamed Elwood. I don't want to give the funny stuff away for those who will still get to watch it. At the end Martin Short says something like "Isn't your mother Patty Duke?" Elijah says "No, that's Sean Astin." Martin Short says "That's who I really wanted to interview." Elijah, of course, gamely replies, "Oh, I'm sorry."

All in all Elijah did very well and did not lose it but tossed the off-the-wall humor right back quite gamely.

BTW this was taped back around the time of the earliest pre-TTT interviews and Lij still has his original longer hair and the CTJ.

ainon: You'll need to open an image editing program and then paste the quicktime screencap, Microsoft Paint won't do, I have no idea why. :( I know it works with Photoshop and Paintshop pro(what I'm using).
PowerDVD 2.55 plays everything?? even .rm? I have version 3 or 4(can't remember which one) and last time I checked it won't play .wmv or .rm. :( Don't know if I should down-grade it. (edited later: I just checked again, it actually plays .wmv and .asf file, :o but still not .rm)



The official site has released few on set picture from Sean Astin's short film, here's one with Elijah:

http://www.lordoftherings.net/legend/gallery/images/sean/image1.jpg


And remember the ROTK preview that was presented at the E3 expo gaming convention? The latest issue of a German magazine called GAMESTAR contains a CDROM that has the preview. Herr-der-ringe-film.de posted some screencaps:
~~~ROTK spoilers~~~~
Here are 2 better quality caps with frodo:
http://www.herr-der-ringe-film.de/v2/media/galerie/sonstiges2/e3cap006.jpg
http://www.herr-der-ringe-film.de/v2/media/galerie/sonstiges2/e3cap007.jpg

see the rest of the screencaps here:
http://www.herr-der-ringe-film.de/v2/de/news/news-detail_651.php

~~~ROTK spoilers~~~~


Hobmom, thanks for the Primetime Glick show review. :) I'll have to wait another hour.

For anyone who can't see the Glick show, there is a clip available here:

http://frodoandsam.net/film/multimedia/video.html

It was a 6.5 minute interview so the file is rather large. (ainon, you'll need to start downloading it before you go to bed. :D )

Sorry to be a little late on this, but I've just now had a chance to address it:

originally posted by brunhild
I may be the lonely dissenter--as usual --but I must confess being wary of this questioning idea. The mental image I can't get rid of is of EJW quietly playing the latest version of The Monkey Island when a group of fans bursts into his virtual private space with a list of questions.

Brunhild, your concern is well taken, and I think everyone here would wholeheartedly that fans should never invade Elijah's or any other celebrity's private time or space. I personally have the utmost respect for any person's personal space and privacy, famous or not, so if I ever saw him on the street I would probably avoid eye contact so as not to intrude on him (of course, my picture is in the dictionary beside the word "hermit", so I'd probably never see him on the street anyway! :p). In this (remotely potential) case however, Narya and Maeglian were on the mark when they surmised that this would be a controlled pre-arranged press type thing with security and agents and all that good stuff, so no invading of Monkey Island time. :)

There is something about that picture of Elijah and Sean that Deluby posted that makes me smile... I think he looks good behind the camera, despite Sean saying that he wasn't all that great at the job. :p

By all means download Elve's clip of Glick!

I was re-watching my tape of it and it just gets funnier and more Elijah-priceless. Lij is such a pro and so polished and so funny. Watch it several times... go ahead, I know you want to.... and this becomes more and more evident with each viewing.

A lot of older actors could learn something from him about polish, natural style, and just a plain good sense of humor

Deluby, thanks for the pics. :) And thanks for the review, Hobmom - yes ma'am, I'm downloading Elve's clip *now*! :) :k

Originally posted by Elvellon
It was a 6.5 minute interview so the file is rather large. (ainon, you'll need to start downloading it before you go to bed. :D )

Let's see ... I'm 15% through, at a painful average of 1.5k/sec. I should presumably be done in three or more, closer to four hours. If connection speed doesn't drop/stall. Go ahead and cry for me. :D

Thanks so much, Elve, for making the clip for us. :k :k


Originally posted by deluby
ainon: You'll need to open an image editing program and then paste the quicktime screencap, Microsoft Paint won't do, I have no idea why. :( I know it works with Photoshop and Paintshop pro(what I'm using).
PowerDVD 2.55 plays everything?? even .rm? I have version 3 or 4(can't remember which one) and last time I checked it won't play .wmv or .rm. :( Don't know if I should down-grade it. (edited later: I just checked again, it actually plays .wmv and .asf file, :o but still not .rm)

You're right, PowerDVD doesn't play .rm. My bad. :o In my excitement I kinda forgot to take note of whether .rm files worked in PowerDVD or not - I used to avoid dowloading Real Media files anyway because my old computer couldn't really play them, so I have only a few in my collection.

Thanks for the advice about the image editing programme. I think I can get my hands on Photoshop. Btw, out of sheer curiosity (and anticipating total incomprehension at the reply ;) ) how do you convert video files from one format to another? :)

IMHO, that kind of interview ( on "Glick") is a perfect setting for Elwood. It needs all the things Hobmom mentioned, plus a quick, witty sense of humor, which he has in spades (didn't we just talk about that ;) ?). Download will take me awhile, too, but there's a weekend coming up :p , so thanks for that Elve. (I'll even admit to being a Martin Short fan. He can be a bit much after awhile, but has a quick wit himself.)

deluby--Love the Sean/Elijah picture. Isn't it nice that if Elijah does decide to get into directing, he can always say his first experience as a First Assistant Director was working under an Academy Award nominated director/producer :) ?

ainon--Nope... believe it or not (don't know if I should admit this :o ), the only DVD program I've got is my good ol' WinDVD that came built into my computer. I redo the aspect ratio on each screencap that's from a widescreen movie to get rid of the vertical stretch. That's actually been good training for working with the Malaysian Crebain that landed here ;) , as it has that same vertical stretch to begin with (when you watch it on the screen). I use the same ratio change for those caps as I use for widescreen DVD caps and they come out looking about right (IMVHO). am working on that bird, BTW... the Black Gate caps will be up this weekend--I'm about 2/3 finished, then have to publish the site. There will be 3 or 4 pages of them.]

For image editing, I use a combination of Microsoft Photo Editor (which was built into my computer) and Sierra's Instant Photo Expert that came "bundled" with it (couldn't remember where I'd gotten that one for a minute :confused: ). They each have different "talents"--for example, for some reason Photo Editor makes lousy .gifs, so all my avatars are made on Instant Photo Expert.

So far the only money I've spent on this "hobby" was buying a CPU with a DVD drive when I knew the movies were being made (I needed to replace my CPU, anyway, but probably wouldn't have gotten one with a DVD drive if not for the movies). And as far as I knew then, that was just so I could watch the movies better than I could on VHS--I'd never heard of "screencaps" at the time :rolleyes: . Maybe some day I'll be able to actually buy some better programs.

Edit: Just realized I should amend "the only money I've spent on this hobby" statement by adding what I've spent on DVDs and VCDs :rolleyes: . I guess that's where the "disposable income" has been going.

-----------


A sad addition to a previous discussion--just heard on the news (as I was typing the earlier part of this post) that Gregory Peck died yesterday. They had a very nice tribute to him, and, of course, I had to listen for Elwood comparisons. I missed the name of the movie insider who said it, but I kind of liked, "He could make human decency look sexy."

Leads back to something I've thought about posting but haven't. Within the last couple of weeks, the AFI (American Film Institute--the group that gave their first-ever "Best Picture" award to FotR) put out a list of the top 50 heroes and the top 50 villains in movie history. I was disappointed that Frodo didn't make it into the hero category, but there's no way I could argue with their pick of Gregory Peck's Atticus Finch as #1. I'm glad that list came out before he died--I hope he heard about it.

from tgshaw
Re: Gregory Peck: "He could make human decency look sexy."
Human decency is sexy. It's a pity that so few people realize that these days. I'm still laughing over some of the comments here and in the Harem about the seediness of the MVT awards show, but Spork's "skanky hos" remark stands out in my mind. I loved Gregory Peck as a girl and I'll miss him.

My justification on why Frodo wasn't honored in the top heroes list (I saw the same special) was because the producers considered LOTR still a work in progress. I don't think they had anything terribly current in there (not that I know movies all that well, but they did tend to focus on many wide-appeal classics). I think that if they do another such special in 10 years, we'll see Frodo and Aragorn in the heroes list, and Gollum in the villians.

I get home to my high-speed computer connection this weekend, so I'll spend some time downloading all those treats that I've been forced to miss. Thank you, Elve, for posting that Glick interview. I do so want to see it.

And thank you Deluby and tg for sharing your images and image-capturing techniques. (Tg, this is the point where I make a little request for your Black Gate sequence. You will put the pawing in, won't you? *bats eyelashes* Please, pretty please? Do you see me groveling? It's not the pawing per se, it's the extraordinary technical accomplishment in blending the virtual character with the live-action character that I need to, uh, study. Yes, study in depth. So will you, please please pretty pretty please? :p )

from Elvellon
There is something about that picture of Elijah and Sean that Deluby posted that makes me smile... I think he looks good behind the camera, despite Sean saying that he wasn't all that great at the job.
He does look good behind the camera. Or in front of it, or on the side...

I mean that in an entirely professional manner. :D

Elve: :k Thank you so much for posting the clip! I've watched it once, but shall certainly have to rewatch it because I found the interviewer so distracting. (Yes, I know he was supposed to be like that, but....)

May I also be allowed to point out the similarity between Frodo and the CTJ? "Endurance beyond hope" is a perfect description for both of them! :D
From ainon
The Sir IM quote is from his White Book at his website. He was answering a specific question about it. Thank you for clarifying this. I wondered about that, but for some reason I haven't bookmarked his page. :o
From tg
Just realized I should amend "the only money I've spent on this hobby" statement by adding what I've spent on DVDs and VCDs I have reached the stage where I'm deliberately not tallying the cost anymore. As long as I'm enjoying this, and am not completely broke...... I mean, travelling to London isn't cost free either, but I sure don't regret doing that!


Brunhild, sorry about forgetting that you'd already; - and recently; - used that song. You would think, with all the musical lyrics out there, I might be able to be somewhat less of a copy-cat. :o

Sad news about Gregory Peck :( :(. Atticus Finch is an admirable character--although in the film he was inexplicably deprived of some of his cutting replies. However, my favourite Peck performances have always been two somewhat underrated ones: Captain Ahab in John Houston's Moby Dick and Anthony Keane in Hitchcock's The Paradine Case.

The list of top 50 heroes is funny, though. Poor old Moses has been topped by Lassie and Rocky Balboa :p.

Maeglian--I wasn't implying that you should edit out your version of the FotR/FotR song! And there's absolutely nothing to apologise for! :k

BTW, there was a crazy theory ;) that hobbits--and not dwarves as JRRT had suggested linguistically--were Jewish. Y'know, a little smart folk, not mingling much with strangers, who produce a saviour from their midst and do not ever really recognise the fact :). Also, the Nazi bastard Saruman was clearly organising a ghetto in the Shire :mad:.

Edit: A lengthy but very relevant Gregory Peck quote (re-quoted from the New York Times obituary):
"If these Mount Everests of the financial world are going to labor and bring forth still more pictures with people being blown to bits with bazookas and automatic assault rifles with no gory detail left unexploited, if they are going to encourage anxious, ambitious actors, directors, writers and producers to continue their assault on the English language by reducing the vocabularies of their characters to half a dozen words, with one colorful but overused Anglo-Saxon verb and one unbeautiful Anglo-Saxon noun covering just about every situation, then I would like to suggest that they stop and think about this: making millions is not the whole ball game, fellows. Pride of workmanship is worth more. Artistry is worth more."

So sad about Gregory Peck. Definitely one of my all time favorites,too. Remember our 'Spellbound' discussion a couple of months back? And Atticus Finch was wonderful. Probably the best film hero of the last century. Frodo of course is in this century film-wise.

Here's a nice quote from Elijah(from that Gear interview)that mentions Mr. Peck and seems to go well with the quote Brunhild just posted above-
"What it means to be a man these days is lost," he says, suddenly focused. "We used to have men like Gregory Peck, heroes like Steve McQueen. They were men, but they were layered, they were sensitive. That idea has been been
lost. Being a man's man; hanging out with the guys for football games; competing for sleeps-with-the-most-women titles -- that's all bull****. It has nothing to do with manhood. Too many men stand for being macho and nothing else. They're caricatures of men. Then there are the men who are girl thingies. They're too sensitive and whiny, and they don't stand for anything. There are too many men like that. That's just as bad as the other side." His own goal, he says, is to be his own man, sensitive and strong.


That's my boy!

What I'd like to know is, how did Elijah Wood, by the tender age of 22, develop such a noble and honorable idea of what it means to be a man, when most "men" who are 30+ still don't understand that there's a universe of difference between being a man and being a guy? WHEN are we going to clone him?

No...really.

Brunhild's NYT quote also goes nicely with the discussion we were having in the Harem last week (and here, too) about MTV's general insipidness.

Elve - thanks so much for putting the Primetime Glick clip on frodoandsam. I've just watched it back - only once so far - but EW is just a sweetheart. His face is SO expressive. Btw, what is that other guy on?

It's great to see you back in the Faculty too, Elve.

Ainon - congratulations on getting your Power DVD (I have that too) and your new-found screencapping abilities. Great pics! Thanks. :)

So sad about the death of Gregory Peck. Hobmom, I also was very impressed with Elijah in that Gear quote you posted.

Originally posted by Elda:

What I'd like to know is, how did Elijah Wood, by the tender age of 22, develop such a noble and honorable idea of what it means to be a man, when most "men" who are 30+ still don't understand that there's a universe of difference between being a man and being a guy? WHEN are we going to clone him?

Elda, all I can say is to that is - Ditto.

And Brunchild, thanks for sharing that Gregory Peck quote with us. So true.

Originally posted by mariol3b3
My justification on why Frodo wasn't honored in the top heroes list (I saw the same special) was because the producers considered LOTR still a work in progress. I don't think they had anything terribly current in there (not that I know movies all that well, but they did tend to focus on many wide-appeal classics).
There was a special :o ? I just read the list in the newspaper. IIRC, Hannibal Lecter was #1 villain, so maybe the villains tended to be more recent than the heroes :rolleyes: . I thought the same thing about LotR not yet being finished. It was very nice, though--and hopeful for Frodo if they do this again :) --to see Atticus Finch in the top hero spot, rather than an "action hero" type character, although there were plenty of those on the list.

(Tg, this is the point where I make a little request for your Black Gate sequence. You will put the pawing in, won't you? *bats eyelashes* Please, pretty please? Do you see me groveling? It's not the pawing per se, it's the extraordinary technical accomplishment in blending the virtual character with the live-action character that I need to, uh, study. Yes, study in depth. So will you, please please pretty pretty please? :p )
Hmmm... so maybe I'm 1/2 done with the scene :p . Definitely agree that that's an amazing CGI feat, though.

from Maeg
I have reached the stage where I'm deliberately not tallying the cost anymore. As long as I'm enjoying this, and am not completely broke...... I mean, travelling to London isn't cost free either, but I sure don't regret doing that!
Oh, I've never tallied it (I'm not that organized :o ). But I do tend to get myself closer to "completely broke" than is probably a good idea, considering I'm single and approaching age 50 (and still paying back student loans :rolleyes: ). So I try to be a bit careful.

That's sad news about Gregory Peck. :( I read 'Mockingbird' when I was still pretty young, but even then I knew Peck would be and could be the only one to be Atticus Finch. But for some reason the movie was never shown on TV here so I had to wait a looooong time though before I finally found a tape of the movie. Gregory Peck was excellent, but I think I was disappointed that the Mockingbird movie wasn't all about Scout as I remembered from the book. After all I thought she was the hero. :o :p

Wonderful quote, Brunhild. Thanks for sharing it with us.


Blossom, thanks. :) Screencapping is fun, but I'm also spectacularly lazy so neither you nor tg nor deluby will ever run into competition with me. :D tg, if only I'd known about your software needs .... ;) :D (Just kidding! Unless .... :D ) Is software pricey in the US?

Well, Mariol's done all the necessary grovelling, but I'll bat my eyelashes here too. ;) Greatly anticipating tgshaw's 'Black Gate'. :k


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Speaking of anticipation:

http://lightsout.bla-bla.com/gallery/2/menus/01.jpg
http://lightsout.bla-bla.com/gallery/2/menus/06.jpg

http://www.lightsoutentertainment.com/media/news/06_03/lotr.jpg

Check it out EXCLUSIVE: Tons of media from the TWO TOWERS DVD!
(http://www.lightsoutentertainment.com/news/news.php?id=1194)

http://lightsout.bla-bla.com/gallery/2/movie/042.jpg



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Took me 3 hours last night and 1 hour this morning to download the Glick clip. Thanks again, Elve. :k Now I can go watch it! Have a safe trip back home, Mariol!

I found a whole bunch of brand new caps from Try 17 !!!!!!!!

Nice!!!!!!!

Here's a few.....

http://www.angelfire.com/celeb2/elijahw/Try17/bscap99.jpg http://www.angelfire.com/celeb2/elijahw/Try17/bscap139.jpg http://www.angelfire.com/celeb2/elijahw/Try17/bscap133b.jpg http://www.angelfire.com/celeb2/elijahw/Try17/bscap81.jpg

Here's the link to more NICE PICS (http://groups.msn.com/ElijahSummer03/shoebox.msnw?Page=7) :D Four pages of them and more should be added soon.

What's CTJ?

All hail the hat!

Tg, thank you for supporting my Black Gate obsession! * scampers about in froglike hops, squealing "Nice master, Mariole will be good!" * Thank you for the eyelash batting assistance, ainon. It worked!

Hard to believe, but "Silence of the Lambs" came out 12 years ago, in '91. Want to freak yourself out? Elijah was ten then (okay, probably 11). Yikes! * quickly moving on...*

There's a discussion going on in Hugs about how some folks will feel disappointed if someone else in the LOTR cast wins an Oscar, but not Elijah. I'm afraid I fall into that category. I fell in love with the movie for the movie, but what kept me coming back and really got me hooked was Elijah's performance. From about the third viewing on I'd go to it just to see him, and get really impatient until we got to the Frodo parts. (After a long day at work, I'd actually rest my eyes between Frodo scenes, so I wouldn't be too tired to appreciate the lovely end with that gorgeous music. There was too much "resting" in TTT, so I only viewed it 5 times vs ... 30 for FOTR? I honestly lost count in the twenties...)

I don't know much about Academy politics, but I think that Elijah's youth will be against him. It makes me sad. I know I shouldn't become sad in advance, and that the Oscars are not perfect after all, but I feel that EW's performance deserves more attention than it's gotten. I'm wondering if this lack of appreciation is an American (USA) thing or not. We seem to want all our heroes buff with perfect hair and teeth, preferably shooting some automatic weapon or dangling from a helicopter. (Well, Frodo may eventually dangle from a giant bird, but I doubt he'll be spraying machine-gun fire down on the hordes of Mordor...) Anything that doesn't fit that stereotype is at a serious disadvantage. (Gregory Peck, we still need you!) Faculty friends around the world, do you suffer from a similar bias where you are? For example, it seems that EW's very big in Japan. I just don't know. As a member of the marketing-resistant minority, this prejudice is baffling to me.

On the other hand, I'm hoping that Sir IM is simply trying not to jinx Elijah's chances by only mentioning Sean A's potential as an Oscar candidate, vs. EW's. I guess time will tell.


Thanks for the Try 17 pics, Hobmom. I must see this movie! And thanks for the DVD pics link, ainon. I'll be waiting for the EE, hoping for some Frodo scene expansions. I'm preparing to be disappointed. TTT seems to be getting ever more Frodo lite. At least on a DVD I can skip scenes...

Nurse, CTJ stands for Crappy Tan Jacket. There is a vocal subset who want to burn said jacket for various reasons (they're tired of it, it's not EW's color, etc.) I am at peace with the CTJ, as is Elijah (based on the number of appearances he wears it to). I hope it stays in his closet forever. Cheers!

Posted by Mariole
For example, it seems that EW's very big in Japan.
Do you perchance imply that the Japanese are vertically challenged? :D :p

Wonderful Try 17 screencaps, Hobmom. Inevitable bits of criticism nonetheless. EJW should rent a couple of Westerns with Peck to improve his hat wearing skills--sombrero's not a bowler :p. And did he really need to promote boxers that way? :D

One more Gregory Peck guote (from a 1998 NYT interview, speaking of his performance in Moby Dick in 1956): "...he [Ahab] was trying to penetrate the mystery of why we are here, why there is anything. I wasn't mad enough, not crazy enough, not obsessive enough. I should have done more. At the time, I didn't have more in me."

Makes one wonder what EJW will have to say about his Frodo in fourty years. I won't be around to hear it, anyway.

Originally posted by mariol3b3
There's a discussion going on in Hugs about how some folks will feel disappointed if someone else in the LOTR cast wins an Oscar, but not Elijah...
I have mixed feelings about that. There's no way Elijah will be nominated for Best Actor for TTT--he just doesn't have enough screentime. In a way, I'd rather he not get nominated at all than to be nominated for Best Supporting Actor (although I suppose that could be a "leg up" for next year). If, in particular, Sean gets nominated and Elijah doesn't, I'd almost take that as an acknowledgement that Frodo can't be considered a "supporting role," which isn't entirely a bad thing. [Let's see, I think I went back and forth four times in that paragraph--definitely mixed feelings! I guess I'll try to look at it from the viewpoint that whatever happens there will be something good about it, rather than whatever happens there will be something bad about it :) .]

I don't know much about Academy politics, but I think that Elijah's youth will be against him. It makes me sad. I know I shouldn't become sad in advance, and that the Oscars are not perfect after all, but I feel that EW's performance deserves more attention than it's gotten.
His youth is absolutely against him. As has been said in some other threads, the Academy seems to have "mixed feelings," too, in that the Best Actor Oscars are "officially" given for one specific performance, but in reality take into account the actor's entire career. Of course, with Elijah one could point out that he's already made more movies than a lot of well-respected older actors, but--hopefully!--he's still at the beginning of a long acting career. I'd love to see his acting as Frodo recognized with an Oscar (which, IMVHO, will be next year if it happens at all) both because it's the most incredible acting I've ever seen and because it's... well, Frodo! But even if he doesn't win one until later in his career, because of the way the Academy operates it will be given partly for his portrayal of Frodo--even if it doesn't say that "officially."

I'm wondering if this lack of appreciation is an American (USA) thing or not. We seem to want all our heroes buff with perfect hair and teeth, preferably shooting some automatic weapon or dangling from a helicopter.
I think that involves two separate questions, really. If we're talking Academy Awards, they don't go to "action hero" types of roles unless there's a lot of complexity to other sides of the character, so lack of that quality should be the opposite of a problem. Somewhat ironically, I guess, that's one reason a fantasy film has never won Best Picture; they tend to be thought of as "action movies." If any fantasy movie can prove it has "a lot of complexity to its other sides," it should be RotK. I'll say one thing for certain: I'm not predicting this, but if RotK wins Best Picture and Elijah wins Best Actor for RotK, it will absolutely stand Hollywood on its ear!! Fantasy films and young actors just don't win those Oscars. (But I'd love to see Hollywood stood on its ear ;) !)

As far as the general American movie-going public, the"buff hero" preference may have some truth to it--but we also have to remember that FotR and TTT have been two of the highest grossing movies ever, have had a lot of press coverage, almost universally positive reviews, interviews, magazine covers, etc., with Elijah getting more "cover shots" than anyone else. Although some of the high money-take may have been related to the action-type scenes (especially in TTT), IMHO the rest didn't seem to be (in the reviews, for example). In a way, I kind of think however much appreciation it and the actors got we wouldn't feel it was enough. Whatever we might think about the artwork composition :rolleyes: , being the central figure on the cover of Time in your early 20s is---well, something you wouldn't expect to see except, possibly, for a serial killer or British royalty (and I'm in no way trying to link those two examples :eek: !); it just doesn't happen! With RotK, if NewLine keeps avoiding anything about post-Shelob Frodo as well as they have been--and I hope they do--Elijah will be more in the background in the pre-publicity for RotK. (Which may just give him more of a chance to blow Tolkien virgins away by surprise when they actually see the movie! -- And, BTW, might give him a bit of a rest after being last year's "front man.")

Of course, that all involves LotR--the real telling with Elijah will be how the public reacts to his other movies. There has definitely been a "run" on his older movies, at least on the internet, from people who wanted to see more of him after they saw Frodo, and some of those movies have become more available. What will happen in the future will be very interesting to watch.

I think the success of both LotR movies so far shows that the public will gravitate to superior movies if they're made available to them. Ties in with that wonderful quote from Gregory Peck; the "Mount Everests" of moviemaking can only satisfy the public with drivel as long as the public lets them do it. And once the public develops a taste for good moviemaking, they'll expect more of it.

Thanks for the Try 17 pics, Hobmom. I must see this movie! And thanks for the DVD pics link, ainon. I'll be waiting for the EE, hoping for some Frodo scene expansions. I'm preparing to be disappointed. TTT seems to be getting ever more Frodo lite. At least on a DVD I can skip scenes...
Yes, thanks to both. I checked out the four pages of Try 17 pics and can see that it won't be too long before the question of what to call a "backwards" Froshadowing pops up again (and, no, not for all of the Try 17 pics ;) , but there are some rather familiar facial expressions.) As cable channels compete with each other more and more, they're starting to occasionally buy exclusive "U.S. premiere" rights for feature films--I'm guessing that as soon as that bought-and-paid-for premiere is over the movie will be available, at least on video/DVD and maybe in a few theaters.

And, IIRC, the "official word" is that there aren't any new Frodo scenes to be added to the DVD, but some scenes might be expanded.

ainon-- :) I really don't consider myself software-deprived. In fact, it's a bit like cable TV: if I had it, I'd just spend more time using it :o . It is a hobby, after all--I enjoy what I've been doing and learning a bit as I go along, and if someone with better technology ever wants to take care of the "screencapping duties" I've been filling, I'll just look at theirs and spend more time writing :cool: . Some of the computer-system updates I make for other-than-hobby reasons have uses hobby-wise, too... I'm expecting that to happen regarding website software later this summer--once I figure out just what my plan is :rolleyes: .

---------
Edit:
from Brunhild
Makes one wonder what EJW will have to say about his Frodo in fourty years.
There's a sizable part of me that wishes that everything that "fell together" for the LotR movies to be made would have waited about ten years to "fall together," for no other reason than to let Elijah mature a little.

Hi Faculty, hi everyone!

This is my very first post in any forum ever...you got me to do this :D !!
I've lurked this thread for several weeks (dropped in via tgshaw's brilliant website) and feel totally comfty with you, dear ladies! It's the most interesting and warmest place about Elijah Wood I've found in the net. Anyway - turning 39 tomorrow allows me to join the club?

Originally posted by mariol3b3
Faculty friends around the world, do you suffer from a similar bias where you are? For example, it seems that EW's very big in Japan. [/B]

Here in Germany Elijah was very little known before LotR but this has pretty changed. Now the people know how to spell his name ;) . I recall a interview which was done for a german television channel and it was obvious that the female :) interviewer was absolutely delighted by his courteousness and the seriousness in answering the questions as if he heard them for the first time at all.
I neither knew the LotR Books nor Elijah as actor but when I watched FotR for the first time the story and his Frodo captured my heart immediately!
Unfortunately there are very few movies with Elijah shown on television here :( but just yesterday they aired "The Adventures of Huck Finn". Loved the scene with Elwood as girl RotF! Cute-o-meter reaches 10!

Greetings! :)

Whiteling: **Welcome** from a fellow 38 year-old (Happy early Birthday tomorrow!) and internet newbie (my first post ever was here last month).

I have come to greatly admire the Faculty for it's intelligence, wit, comraderie and appreciation and respect for Elijah Wood.

This was from page 90 of this thread (3/10):
Originally posted by shilohmm

If you want the truth, and speaking just for myself, I think the "obsessive" part of it is more toward the people here (at KD as a whole) than to EW per se. Of course I love LOTR and EW, and I am glad of their existence to provide an "anchor" for us, but the reason this thread and the Hobbit threads are so prone to "wander" is that we just plain enjoy the company. And for me, it's the company that draws me back.

Sheryl [/B]

I heartily agree!

Welcome again!!

Welcome, Whiteling, it's very nice to have you here with us! :)


I'm wondering if this lack of appreciation is an American (USA) thing or not. We seem to want all our heroes buff with perfect hair and teeth, preferably shooting some automatic weapon or dangling from a helicopter. I don't think Frodo's possible lack of this particular kind of "heroism" has made the Scandinavian audiences any less appreciative of Frodo. In fact, although American action movies generally make good grosses here, there is a certain eye-rolling going on about the "heavy-handedness" in portraying the heroes as perfect and "superhuman" in every way (and with beautiful loving wives applauding them in the background as often as not). In addition, many such films generally do not draw large grown-up mature audiences, but are more considered a "teen" sort of film.

LotR has grossed much more than any other foreign films, having left other blockbusters firmly in the dust. (And FotR grossed more than TTT). The LotR films were seen by audiences across all gender and age groups, so had a specifically wide appeal.

Our own films as far as I can judge it without being a film expert, tend to focus less on action hero stuff and more on the realistic portrayal of the lives of ordinary people now or in the past (often as faced with difficulties or unusual situations). They also focus more on low-key "small and less noticed" persons, and on ambiguous situations where there are no "easy answers and final victories".

So I believe Elijah's portrayal of Frodo overall has been very well received here, and is seen as a welcome many-faceted and somewhat more "realistic" portrayal, as compared to the many he-men action flick figures out there. (Not that for instance Viggo Mortensen isn't appreciated too, mind you. But he *is* half Danish, after all! :D )


I'm feeling extremely non-gabby at the moment. Don't know why. Could have something to do with finally having gotten hold of, and being in the middle of reading "The Long Walk". Good thing I knew full well how depressing a story it is before I started reading, or I'd have been floored by now.


Oh, and I hope you all know that when I poke fun at the CTJ, it's in the very most affectionate kind of way? How could a Facultier *not* like a piece of clothing so dear to EJW? And it's one of the most versatile jackets around, too; - worn to publicity meets, to TV interviews, out and about town, to countryside pheasant hunts.... :) One J fits all! :)

Welcome, Whiteling! :) And what would be the German version of 'Elijah Wood'--'Elias Wald'? :D

maeglian--A person must be very young at heart to find The Long Walk so depressing ;). BTW, "your films" can be extremely good. For instance, the 1997 Insomnia with Stellan Skarsgård (I know he's Swedish but the movie was Norwegian :) ) was vastly superiour to the US remake with Al Pacino.

Speaking of remakes. Recently, Soderbergh made a not-so-glorious remake of Tarkovsky's Solaris. It could be an idea to remake another Tarkovsky feature, The Stalker. (The title has nothing to do with stalking.) The original film--based loosely on a really good Russian SciFi book The Roadside Picnic by the Strugatsky brothers-- was IMVHO much less impressive than Solaris hence there's more sense in attempting a remake. The actual reason why I'm mentioning this is of course that there's a controversially heroic role for a certain actor there. The English translation of the book here (http://lib.ru/STRUGACKIE/engl_picnic.txt). The very last paragraph, to whet your appetite:

And then, sinking into the rubble, he dragged himself across the quarry to the dancing, winking ball. He was covered with sweat and panting from the heat, and at the same time, a chill was running through him, he was shuddering, as if he had a bad hangover, and the sweet chalk dust gritted between his teeth. He had stopped trying to think. He just repeated his litany over and over: "I am an animal, you see that. I don't have the words, they didn't teach me the words. I don't know how to think, the bastards didn't let me learn how to think. But if you really are ... all-powerful ... all-knowing ... then you figure it out! Look into my heart. I know that everything you need is in there. It has to be. I never sold my soul to anyone! It's mine, it's human! You take from me what it is I want ... it just can't be that I would want something bad! Damn it all, I can't think of anything, except those words of his ...'HAPPINESS FOR EVERYBODY, FREE, AND NO ONE WILL GO AWAY UNSATISFIED!' "

Whiteling, WELCOME! Glad to see you delurked. :) Make yourself comfortable, and share our fun! Since it's already tomorrow-ish where I am,

Happy Birthday, whiteling! :) :k and Happy Birthday, Elve :k :k


-------


tg, ditto to what you said about the Oscars. To be honest, I'm resigned to the fact that he won't be nominated. :( If he is, I'll be exceptionally surprised and totally delighted, but right now I'm not going to hope, that's all. He might be pushed to 'Supporting Actor' category, but my worry then will be if he's up against Sean Astin. :eek: I do expect Astin to be nominated; Sam's like the dream supporting role. But Frodo is iffy - not just because he's played by such a young actor over a period of four years of his life - but also because well, Frodo isn't quite typical. If Frodo were a character in some obscure indie movie that premiered at Cannes, or some Kaufman-penned film, or a dramatic movie about heroes 'gone wrong', then he's definitely Oscar-worthy. (Then again, I was expecting Al Pacino to be nominated for 'Insomnia'; after years of over-acting I thought he hit a wonderful subtle nuance in this one. Hard to predict them Oscar folks) But Frodo's a Fantasy hero and tg's already said enough about attitudes pertaining to that. :p


As for what audiences see in a hero ... umm, hard to say. LOTR was huge here in Malaysia, with people actually making real effort to go see it in the cinemas. Some even admitted to going twice. :cool: Amongst all those new LOTR fans, there were those who saw in Frodo the true humble hero. :) And for the rest, there was Orlando Bloom. :D Seriously though, more often than not I tend to lament the way folks here judge films and heroes -- Arnold will, at the very least, enjoy a fine opening weekend here when 'Terminator 3' opens. And the most popular British actor here is Rowan Atkinson, he of "Mr Bean" and other absurd British slapstick humour fame - most people are even unaware that Atkinson is capable of fluent speech. :rolleyes: So no, I don't expect much from folks around me, and I am quite prepared to accept that when Frodo reaches the end and what happens happens, there will be those who'll fail to appreciate the sacrifices he'd made and see only the fact that he's not worthy. :(


Brunhild - that sounds cool. I'll save the book to read later.

And it's just a coincidence that I happened to try look for a CTJ pic at http://maggiebear.crosswinds.net and came across this nice big cat here. ;)


http://maggiebear.crosswinds.net/misc92/misc912.jpg

NEWS FLASH!!!!

LIJ AND HOBBITS IN NZ. FOR PICK-UP SHOTS.

Stuff (http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/0,2106,2540626a10,00.html)


EDIT- Also ALL the available Try 17 caps are up on my Pic site HERE (http://groups.msn.com/ElijahSummer03/_whatsnew.msnw)

Fantastic!!!!!

And many chances to scientifically examine Elijahs' kissing technique progress.

Here's a little sample....

http://www.angelfire.com/celeb2/elijahw/Try17/bscap145.jpg

Hello all.

Welcome to The Faculty and KD, Whiteling. Congratulations on your first post ever - and HERE'S WISHING YOU A VERY HAPPY 39TH BIRTHDAY! :) In view of the fact that you saw Huck Finn recently, I thought this might make a sweet little birthday gift: Just click on the link to view.

http://www.imagemagician.com/images/blossom/HFSarah.gif

AND ELVE - HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO YOU! Have a lovely day.

Not much to say - it's very late - but thanks for the link about the hobbits being in NZ, Hobmom. Elijah did say he was 'kind of' supporting England in the rugby, as they were the underdogs - and - Whoo-hoo - I heard that England won!:)

Ainon - you know how to make us poor crebain-deprived people wish it was August already with those TT caps.:D

That's all. Goodnight.

First this, so I can feel like it's done! I've decided it's wrong to call The Black Gate "a scene"--it's really a whole section of the movie. This set ended up having more pics than the Weathertop one! But I'm hoping this crebain spread will take people a little while to digest :p . BTW, it's at a completely new "address"--my regular ISP finally got a halfway decent program, so I'm trying to make use of some of the free space I've had sitting there empty.: Screencaps EJWood (http://home.earthlink.net/~screencaps/index.html)

Hobmom, thanks for the link to Stuff--partly because I think it's the first we've heard about when Elijah's pick-ups actually started, and partly because it's kind of nostalgic! Ah, the good old days when I knew more about what was going on in Wellington than what was happening in my own city, and was used to seeing datelines for tomorrow... :) :) Seems like old times. [Notice they had a bit of a mix-up, though, saying that Monaghan plays Pippin :rolleyes: .]

If we wanted to ;) , we could speculate on whether there's a reason they're all there at the same time--some pick-ups for post-CofD scenes? Doesn't mention Sean, but I think sometimes he's there without the press knowing it. (He probably doesn't want to get "outed" for playing tennis again before the shooting's done :p . I think he'll be very happy when he no longer has a director who worries about him staying fat enough.)

---------

ainon--I noticed the cat pic has an NBC logo in the corner and the set's decorated for Christmas. Did the site you found the picture on say what show it was from? I'm wondering if it's from the same Tonight Show that had the baby monkeys. It does seem to me the "zoo lady" brought a "cat" or two that night and that Elijah was holding one of them for awhile. (Very cute picture though, whenever it's from.)

----------

Maeg--Tolkien's always been especially popular in Scandinavia. Maybe that's made people more interested in the movies there?? Just a thought.

-----------

Welcome, whiteling :) :) . It's been great to "see" a few new faces lately :cool: .

[And, since I didn't say it above, in case any of the newer people are wondering about "crebain," the name started back on Imladris at some point to refer to something that has to be "hunted" because it's ummm... shall we say... not quite officially available yet? I received a lovely gift of Malaysian crebain recently, and have been dishing it up separately from my main website so that it's not legally "published" (because it's not available to the "general public.") But I don't mind the link being passed on to interested parties.]

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If we're talking possible book-to-movie ideas for Elijah again, I just ran across a one-paragraph "review" of Motherless Brooklyn by Jonathan Lethem. I was curious partly because of our discussion of Tourette's syndrome some time back--the main character is a not-quite-a-detective (he does "odd jobs" for a shady one) who has Tourette's. That Lethem had written it made me more curious, since his stock-in-trade is writing "genre" novels that break all the rules of the genre. He usually does science fiction--I think this was his first "detective" novel. I looked it up at Amazon and they had 25 sample pages which I read--it's the only time I can remember running into the last sample page of a book and saying, "What!? Aargh!" Methinks I'll have to track it down :p .

But IMHO it'd be a great part for Elijah--it'd definitely need a "versatile" actor, as it's told in first person in fluid, imaginitive language (one of Lethem's strengths), but when the character says anything aloud (as opposed to internally), the Tourette's gets in the way. I can imagine it done with a fair amount of voice-over, in the same voice that the character uses when talking, but in a completely different mode of speech. Amazon has it available in an audio version--I'd be interested to hear how it was done. Besides the speech, the character's also in a position to get into difficult situations as he tries to find out why his boss--who always took great pains to hide his real activities from his "hired help"--was murdered. I'd be surprised if someone hasn't bought the film rights by now.

-----------

Oh, my... it's been a long weekend at the Black Gate. Not that I didn't enjoy it :) . I love finding the little jewels that you don't notice in the theater, but jump out at you when you look at things more closely, and this had a lot of them (angst appreciators should like page 4 ;) ). But I think I'm ready to say good-night :) .

Originally posted by ainon

Speaking of anticipation:

(pics from TTT disc set)


Look at that shot on the second disc - Frodo clutching his heart, right? Is it me, or is someone actually noticing what we obsess about? And has this already been discussed to death in the Harem? :p I'm waaaay behind there.

Originally posted by brunhild

EJW should rent a couple of Westerns with Peck to improve his hat wearing skills--sombrero's not a bowler

Oh, fine. I thought he looked right nice until you tossed that out there, and now I can't enjoy the pic without thinking he needs to adjust his hat. :p I plonk mine down flat that way myself, I think. Never really looked at myself in the mirror, but I can get it down so it stays where I put it even in the wind off Lake Michigan, and I like it right down over my eyes, so I suspect it wouldn't have the Peck panache...

Hmmm, I wonder if Templeton Peck picked his last name because of Gregory? (And if anyone but ainon knows what I am talking about, I'll be muchly gratified.)

tgshaw pretty much summed up my opinion about the movie going public's prejudices versus those of the academy. Michael Medved claims that R movies do not make as much money as G or PG, but the movie industry keeps plowing out the less-lucrative stuff because it' more prestigious. I've never checked his numbers, myself.

Hi, whiteling, and Welcome! I love tgshaw's site - I just wish she never had to take anything down! I wonder if the German interview you're talking about is the one I've seen. I liked that one. :cool:

I don't want to unnerve nurse or whiteling or any other newbie, but I'm going to expose the dark underbelly of posting to caring Internet communities - sharing bad news. :(

Prim, you can feel free to trout me any time, now. I no longer have a "delicate condition." I miscarried last week. Way back with my first I said I wouldn't tell anyone I was pregnant until I got out of the "dangerous" first trimester, but hubby would never stick to that rule. :p And I quit worrying about it as well, since I'd never miscarried before, but of course I keep getting older... *sigh*

I guess the one positive aspect is that I probably won't see someone posting to the CoE "horrible ROTK viewing experiences" about "that dratted incredibly pregnant lady who kept taking potty breaks all through the flick" - or if they do, at least I can be sure they aren't writing about me...

Sheryl

edit:
I like the Black Gate stuff, tg!

I noticed that very determined sweep of the "Magic Cloak" before I ever saw the entire movie (can't remember which preview it was in, though) - loved that move, he's so determined and so clearly knows what he's doing. I like the whole Black Gate sequence, despite the Magic Cloak. I thought it was a strong step beyond the hesitant Frodo in FOTR.

I liked and agreed with your comments on what Frodo is going through when he realizes he can't get through the Black Gate. Your stills catch his varied emotions very well. :cool: Have to show the eldest all that tomorrow. I always put off telling her you've got new stuff up because she always has to check out all the old stuff, too, and she monopolizes my computer for some time. :p

And I forgot to mention that I couldn't hear half the Prime Time Glick clip - it down loaded beautifully ( :k Elve), but my oldest son found it so odd he spent half the time asking questions. "Did that man really mean that, mom? Is he picking on Elijah? Why'd he say that, mom?" :rolleyes: :D About the only obnoxious comedians he's seen are the Marx Brothers. Martin Short is far outside his ken, I'm afraid. Elijah was cute, though.

Sheryl

{{{Sheryl}}} Don't know what else to say.

But I wouldn't call sharing bad news a "dark underbelly"--now, if we gossiped about people behind their backs, or said nasty things about each other, or got upset if someone had a different opinion... I'd call that a "dark underbelly"... Sharing news with people who care about you doesn't qualify.

http://www.imagemagician.com/images/tgshaw/off topic/www_pics_am-religion1053-crop.jpg

Take good care of yourself.

((((Sheryl)))) I am so sorry. Thank you for sharing both your initial joy and now your grief with us. I'm sending massive hugs out to you and your family, and tender thoughts for your lost little one.

((((((((Sheryl)))))))) So sorry!

I hope all the Elijah and Frodo pics help just a little.

Thanks for the great Black Gate caps Tg.

Having spent the last two days enlarging ,cleaning up and posting the Try 17 caps and seeing Elijah totally BE somebody else, even in the caps this comes across very clearly, and then looking at the caps of the BG and seeing him totally BE Frodo brings home again what we have all realized, that he is an incredible actor. He truly becomes the characters he plays.

Frodo will always be one of if not the crowning achievement of his career. He's so young and has so much potential that he could do anything yet and that's very exciting. But what he does as Frodo is remarkable and he has sustained this wonderful character for nearly five years now! As we were saying in Hugs and over here he should absolutely get an Oscar for this! And it will be a crime if he's not at least nominated.

Watching him in other roles only emphasizes this.

The way he seemingly unconciously uses body language that is unique to each character and brings across the subtle distinctions between sometimes similar characters is brilliant.

Looking at the Try 17 caps I was reminded a little of Barney Snow... a little but not quite..... and Mikey from Chof.... just a smidgin, but not really...... then it dawned on me... he isn't playing either he's playing Jones Dillon, an entirely different person with different nuances in every shot. And Jones CHANGES throught the course of the movie from a rather green, uncomfortable young man just let loose in the world to someone who accepts himself and likes himself and can deal with the complexities of life on a whole new plane. And this was just sorting through somebody else's caps. I've yet to see the movie.
Also Jones is NOTHING like Frodo. I noticed NO Fro-shadowings.
This was an entirely new person Elijah was portraying.

He's good! Now it WOULD be nice if his peers recognized this more noticeably with an Academy Award.

Oh and I also like him in the cowboy hat! I believe it's a stetson.

Thanks for the kind words, guys.

Originally posted by tgshaw
But I wouldn't call sharing bad news a "dark underbelly"


Well, I did say dark underbelly for *caring* boards - elsewhere on the Internet I've dealt with or seen all kinds of nastiness. I currently post on another board where some days I just cringe to see someone has responded to me - odds are, the response is polite, but personal attacks are common enough that I just don't look on a day when I'm feeling iffy. :o

So for me, the "hardest" part about posting here is when someone else is hurting, and all I can offer is virtual hugs. Normally I don't mind the distance, but at times like that it adds to the pain somehow. When someone in town is suffering, I can cook them a dinner or give them a hug or something - my response may not make them feel that much better, but it makes *me* feel better. :p That's not possible here, but it isn't something I really thought about until someone here experienced a loss. Maybe I'm a more tactile person than I realized, I dunno.

Sheryl

(((((((Sheryl)))))))

references to academic in my sig have nothing to do with the Faculty. The Faculty is neither dry nor humorless. (((Faculty)))

Love your Black Gate series and interpretations, Tgshaw. Frolijah looks so brave- resolute - just the way I imagine him when reading! (Can't wait til I can watch all this carefully on DVD).) One thing I question though is your suggestion that movie cloak is too magical for Tolkien. To me, it recalled other times in the book when the cloak guarded members of the fellowship from view (such as when Rohan riders nearly pass by Aragorn & co). Also, I thought the movie effectively balanced suble 'magic' with drama by making the cloak so rock-like while allowing the enemy to come so close.

Oh, Sheryl. Damn. Damn. Damn.

I can't think of anything to say that isn't hideously trite when typed onto a bulletin board.

So I'll send my love, and concern, and desperate hope that you and your hubby get the real life hugs and support that families need in such terribly difficult crises.

hugs from Prim. Lots.

(((((Shilohm))))).

I know exactly who you're referring to re Templeton Peck. And I think you're right. ;)

As Mel assured y'all, her sig is not meant to be a tease to the Faculty, who are anything but dry and boring! :)

I reckon if Anna Paquin got a (well deserved) Oscar at 12 or 13, we can hold out hopes for EW. I am optimistic to the nth degree. If he doesn't get one soon, he will at some time down the track.

So sorry to hear your sad news, Sheryl.

Lots of love to you, Sheryl. :k

(((Sheryl)))

But A-Team was a B-series :D :D :k

{{{Sheryl}}} I'm so sorry.

This group reminds me of the lyrics to Blest (actually not sic) Be the Tie That Binds. I wish I could remember more but one line is (something like) "oft share the sympathizing tear".

After a baptism yesterday our pastor addressed the baby with the reformation words which included "for you He did battle in the world" which reminded me that, although I too would have liked to see Elijah do the stand at the Ford (ignorance was bliss the first time) battles are not always fought with swords.

While watching the choir sing (and choke up over) "Friends are Friends Forever" to a couple who's moving away after 15 years (who I don't know well), my eyes welled up. My daughter said "why are you crying?". In my mind I realized "because I am an angst maven!"

As you were.

A Very Happy Birthday to Elve and whiteling!

In the belief that a double birthday calls for a big cake :p --

http://www.imagemagician.com/images/tgshaw/cropcap334.jpg


Originally posted by naiad
Frolijah looks so brave- resolute - just the way I imagine him when reading!
While doing those caps, especially the ones toward the end of the scene, I was thinking about "Frodo as we always knew him." IIRC, it was BunnieBugs or Ariel (or maybe someone else :o ), who brought up that concept awhile back when talking about Frodo's confrontation with Boromir--those moments when Frodo on the screen is Frodo (if you take my meaning), which are different moments for each person.

I found myself having one of those "moments" while Frodo's so persistently trying to reach the Gate, and even more so when he's trying to decide whether or not to follow Gollum, and (of course :rolleyes: ) I had to analyze why it affected me that way. I think it's because those are times when Elijah shows the emotions I've always imagined Frodo having but not being able to show. It's as if I'm seeing Frodo's inner self on the screen instead of what my eyes would have seen if I'd been actually present and looking at him externally, seeing the part of him that felt it had to keep those emotions hidden. I have no idea if that makes any sense! It reminded me that it was exactly Elijah's ability to do that with an internally-directed character that made me so happy/relieved when I heard he'd been cast as Frodo. And why the quote from SciFi Magazine in my sig seems so true.

One thing, I question though is your impression that movie cloak is too magical for Tolkien. To me, it recalled other times when in the book when the cloak guarded members of the fellowship from view (such as when Rohan riders nearly pass by Aragorn & co).
Open to interpretation, I suppose. In the book, the cloaks hide people because their coloring blends in so well with the surroundings, whatever the surroundings are. When Pippin asks if the cloaks are magic, an Elf replies:
I do not know what you mean by that... Leaf and branch, water and stone: they have the hue and beauty of all these things under the twilight of Lorien that we love; for we put the thought of all that we love into all that we make... And you will find them a great aid in keeping out of the sight of unfriendly eyes, whether you walk among the stones or the trees.
I've always taken the hue and beauty to refer to the coloring, which doesn't change in what would (in any other fantasy) be considered a "magical" way, but rather picks up the surroundings (in somewhat the same way that my hazel eyes look more blue if I'm wearing blue but more brown if I'm wearing brown--taken to a much higher degree, of course). -- At least that's how I've always interpreted it.

I suppose you could interpret "hue and beauty" to mean not only the color but also other aspects of "leaf and branch, water and stone," including texture and not being ruffled by the wind (BTW, I'd like to know what they were using to keep the Wig on that day ;) !). Then it might follow that even though the cloaks are never used this way in the book, they could have been.

I dunno--it's just a bit too overt (and a little too convenient?) for my taste. IMHO it starts bringing up the thought that there's no worry--if they're ever about to be captured they can just throw their cloaks over themselves until the danger's past. It pulled me out of "suspended disbelief" for a bit there, although I don't know if I can completely put into words why it just didn't ring true to Tolkien's "Elf-magic" for me.

(((((Sheryl))))) My thoughts are with you.

((((((Sheryl))))) :k


Look at that shot on the second disc - Frodo clutching his heart, right?

Why yes. Now that you mention it .... ;) :D I do believe there're nice people in the DVD business who do know what we like to see .... :p

Personally, I always wondered where the name Templeton came from, but it's cool if Peck was a tribute to Gregory.


Hobmom, I enjoyed your Try 17 caps but forgot to thank you for them! Thanks so much. :cool: Very good to know that Jones Dillon hasn't a bit of Frodo in him at all.

tg's Black Gate! Great caps, again. :) The Michael Landon quip made me spray water all over my keyboard, btw. I agree with naiad about the cloak though; then again I never really saw it as greatly magical in the movie - just really cool camouflage. If Obi Wan Kenobi can get away with distracting a couple of stormtroopers with a pretend pebble, then our Frodo can escape detection by pretending to be stony. ;)

so okay, what I said has like, nothing to do with Tolkien per se. I think somewhere a purist is screaming and tearing her hair out ... :p

And there can never be gratuitous pawing of the cloak! Never! :D


nurse's little bit about friends reminded me of this screencap I found online a while back, and I think (if we didn't know what they're really going on about!) it looks like a wonderful close moment between great friends.

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-6/93723/3hobbits.jpg

How about something completely different?

I was staying with my sister in Iowa City recently. On Saturday her husband came home from his golf date with a smirk on his face and had us sit down. When he had our attention he announced, "I was just golfing with Elijah Wood's second cousin."

It turns out that the man's last name is not Wood, and his first name is a common method of measurement (like how I preserve his anonymity?) Anyway, my sister asked if you could see a family resemblance. He said that the man had the same basic face shape, "those big eyes," but a somewhat stronger chin. So we asked him if he had heard any news -- any behind the scene snippets about filming that he'd like to share, is EW in NZ now, etc.

Her husband looked at us blankly. "I thought this would be sufficient," he said, disappointed that we had follow-up questions. What did they talk about?

Golf. :D

=====
Back to our regularly scheduled discussion:

What ainon said -- there can never be too much gratuitous pawing. Thanks for including it, tg! * study study study *

from ainon
I think somewhere a purist is screaming and tearing her hair out ...
Uh, that would be me, I'm afraid. I'm with tg on this one; I always envisioned the cloak as the same kind of camouflage a chameleon benefits from -- if you don't move and you blend in, you won't be noticed. But it isn't a perfect deception, and I did always wonder in TTT how to account for Frodo's pack -- hanging out there in front of Eru and everybody while he and Sam were huddled underneath.

Thank you, Peachy, for your comment on Anna Paquin's Oscar. I don't know why this is important to me, but it seems to matter. Sigh. And no, they can't pit Elijah against Sean Astin or any of his other costars. That would be just plain wrong!

from tgshaw
Elijah shows the emotions I've always imagined Frodo having but not being able to show.
Very well put. Elijah really brought the character to life for me.


Thank you everyone who responded to my "Elijah around the world" request. Differing perceptions around the globe is an interest of mine. Welcome to the board, Whiteling! I'm new myself, and really enjoy these discussions. Maeglian, really enjoyed your comments about Scandinavian audiences. Yes, the American superhero protagonists are all-too-often childish fantasies. It makes me a bit embarrassed about what products America so proudly exports, but apparently folks in Malaysia are taking to them just fine. Just like MacDonald's and Coke, these fine products are sweeping the world. * Sighs again *

from ainon
I am quite prepared to accept that when Frodo reaches the end and what happens happens, there will be those who'll fail to appreciate the sacrifices he'd made and see only the fact that he's not worthy.
I can't say that I'm prepared, but I would certainly understand it if they did hold that view. I felt that way upon first reading the book. I thought that Sam was the true hero and that it was unfortunate that Frodo didn't die after all, because then Sam could have gotten on with the job. :eek: What can I say, I was younger then. But I think it takes a bit of sophistication to realize the courage of a whole-hearted commitment to an impossible task, and seeing it through despite this (cue music for "Impossible Dream"). Also, as a younger person I wanted my heroes to be strong, and Frodo was always so dreadfully aware of his limitations. As an adult, I say, All hail, Frodo, everyman! But yes, I'm fully expecting a "Frodo should have died" contingent to emerge after ROTK. It will be composed of people who perhaps aren't quite so far down the path of self awareness as others, but by no means does it mean that they won't get there eventually.


Tg, IIRC the cat is a lynx, and is from the same Leno show as the monkeys.

(((Sheryl)))

Dear Colleagues: Here is an update on an ex-Elwood project:

According to a report at CHUD, filming for Thumbsucker (sans Elijah Wood) is scheduled to begin July 9 in Oregon. The current cast list includes Tilda Swinton (still), Matthew McConaugey (!) and Vincent D’Onofrio. Cannot for the life of me figure out who is playing the title role, the one that Elijah was “too old” for. :rolleyes:


Tg: thank you for the caps from the Black Gate sequence. Verry nice. :cool:

Hobmom: wonderful images from Try Seventeen. Now if only we could see the MOVIE! :p

great story mariol. :)

I am very pleased to hear that the hobbit boys are back in New Zealand. We should all be sending good thoughts in that direction so that RoTK turns out as we all hope it will. ;)

There's an old Norwegian psalm title turned proverb that I believe fits the Faculty today: "Joy and sorrow travel together".

(((Sheryl))) keeping you in my thoughts. :k


and

Happy birthday, Elve! :k


Happy birthday, Whiteling! :)

Many happy returns and best wishes to you both!

:) :) :)



Edit:

Brunhild, thanks for the nice words about "our films". Stellan Skarsgård is a wonderful actor - never mind that he's Swedish. :D
Btw, have you seen "Elling"? It was nominated for best foreign language Oscar 2 years back, and I know it ran in the US, and the UK, too, for a brief while. Low-key, quirky, charming, a bit weird, main characters that are the absolute antidotes to any superhero overdoses.... *and* it includes another of my favourite actors in the role as social worker. :)
(I've read that there are plans for a US remake with Kevin Spacey in the title role. Wonder if that is true?)

About the "magic cloak" - I thought that was a bit too much, too. But OTOH, it gave PJ and EJW a possibility for Frodo to show plain and easy-to-understand "out in the open" courage and decisiveness before he returns to that mainly internal and less immediately obvious fight. And it "evened the score" a bit between Frodo and Sam - the films are not just Sam rescueing Frodo, and rescueing Frodo. So in that way I guess it makes sense movie-story-telling-wise. And PJ immediately has Sam tell everyone in the audience that "Even these elven cloaks won't help [us] in there", to ensure the audience it won't be plain sailing. So all in all, I can live with the movie cloak's abilities. In fact, what seemed strangest to me was the cloak's stretching abilities- doesn't it have to become much larger in order to cover them that well?

(((((Sheryl))))):( :k



Happy Birthday, Elvellon!!:)

Welcome and Happy Birthday, Whiteling!!:)

Very, very sad news, Sheryl -- lots of love!

Faculty, well-wishers, thank you so much for the warm welcome! Nice cake, tg, and yes, Blossom, the gif from "Huck Finn" was exactly what I want, what *I really really want* :k
Now I'm going to check out the Black Gate caps to make it a completely round birthday!

Again thanks to all and greetings! :)

I was going to do some more editing, but Bridget and Whiteling made it possible for me to do a new post instead. :)


Hobmom, I meant to thank you for the Try17 pictures. :) How could I forget that? Thank you!


Brunhild, what is the Roadside Picknic about? That last paragraph sounded very end-of-Long-Walk'ish to me. :eek: I've finished that one now. I feel a long rant may be coming. But not tonight, I fear I'll depress you all too much. Tomorrow is another day.


Good night, all!

I love that screencap! I hadn't seen it before. And it looks like Frodo is wrapped up in a blanket - I wonder why! He was dancing energetically enough - and I think it was already dark when we saw him dancing!

About the "magic cloak" - I thought that was a bit too much, too. But OTOH, it gave PJ and EJW a possibility for Frodo to show plain and easy-to-understand "out in the open" courage and decisiveness before he returns to that mainly internal and less immediately obvious fight. And it "evened the score" a bit between Frodo and Sam - the films are not just Sam rescueing Frodo, and rescueing Frodo.

Maeglian, I so utterly agree!

No matter how many times I see FOTR, I am STILL irritated by the collective travesties of Amon Hen and Weathertop, and I find the early doe-eyed stuff frankly embarrassing. Just can't get over it.

I don't approve of Frodo offering the Ring to the Nazgul, even in somnambulance. But I still feel his character is less massacred in TTT than it was in FOTR. This is from someone who has learned to dearly love PJ's FOTR (so much that she will split her infinitives to proclaim it).

I wanted Frodo to be more commanding to Gollum, but I still enjoy EW's performance much more in TTT.

Thank your for your kind thoughts, all. :) After that long quiet time a bit ago, I kind of hated posting that for fear I would derail things, but the conversation seems to be percolating along nicely.

Happy Birthday, whiteling!

Happy Birthday, Elve!

I thought this cake went well with the one tg supplied; for those who prefer chocolate:

http://www.letthemeatcakeatlanta.com/images/Groom_Cake_12.jpg


Originally posted by Brunhild


But A-Team was a B-series :D :D :k

Sheryl delivers Brunhild another well deserved trouting.

Stephen J. Cannell agreed with you, at least in terms of his own work. But considering some of the stuff he did later I thought the A-Team worked very well, mostly because of the actors' contributions (the writing was far from consistent).

Originally posted by ainon
Personally, I always wondered where the name Templeton came from

I figured he picked that just because it sounded snazzy and upper class.

I chuckled at the Michael Landon bits as well. ;)

Originally posted by ainon

I think somewhere a purist is screaming and tearing her hair out...

Not to discount Mariol's reply, but my theory is that this has been a true statement at any time pretty much since PJ first announced his intent to make a movie... :D

Originally posted by mariol3b3

the cat is a lynx

Good, because that's what I told the kids. :p

Thanks for the update, Peaceweaver.

Originally posted by Maeglian

In fact, what seemed strangest to me was the cloak's stretching abilities- doesn't it have to become much larger in order to cover them that well?

I used to wear a cape cut much like Frodo's, and considering how much of Sam is underground I don't think it needs to be any larger, so long as Frodo tucks his feet up. Mine wasn't a full circle cape but it still covered a fair chunk of space if you swept it out (something you always had to keep in mind when putting it on!).

The illusion certainly wasn't what the book indicated to me, but I just liked the scene as a whole so much I was willing to let it go. ;)

Originally posted by Niphredil

And it looks like Frodo is wrapped up in a blanket - I wonder why!

It's from one of the appendices, IIRC, when EW, Dom Monahan and Billy Boyd were doing this routine of insulting whoever of the three wasn't there, then being all fakey-friendly when the person being insulted returned. Fun stuff. You know, I still haven't seen all the stills on the appendices (although I assume I've seen most of the really "Good Stuff" here or in the Harem or one of the other hobbit threads). I really need to sit down and spend a few days on the Extended DVD before the TTT DVD comes out and I can gaze at that with a good sharp resolution frame-by-frame.

Sheryl

Niphy-
I wanted Frodo to be more commanding to Gollum, but I still enjoy EW's performance much more in TTT.

I loved how Elijah got this across. And it was one of the scenes I was most looking forward to seeing. He was commanding without being overbearing yet in a way that made Gollum know that there would be NO arguing with THIS Master of the Ring. And Gollum knows this early on and until his Gollum side takes over again later he is totally subservient to Frodo.

I still get goosebumps at the subtle change in Elijah's voice when he commands "You will lead us to the Black Gate!" To me it was just as it should be based on the book. And doesn't Sam give him that "Whoa! What's Frodo turning into here?!" look then, too?

The elven cloak scene- I always got the impression that is WAS put in there to make up for NOT showing Aragorn, Legolas and Gimli looking invisible to the Riders of Rohan and also to demonstrate what the cloaks can do in a pinch. In the book we know but it was not explained in movie-FOTR.

The cloak does seem to grow to cover them both. But it IS elven after all. And well...it's a special effect, too. I can accept the scene as it is. It's cool!

Originally posted by Maeglian
But OTOH, it gave PJ and EJW a possibility for Frodo to show plain and easy-to-understand "out in the open" courage and decisiveness before he returns to that mainly internal and less immediately obvious fight. And it "evened the score" a bit between Frodo and Sam - the films are not just Sam rescueing Frodo, and rescueing Frodo. So in that way I guess it makes sense movie-story-telling-wise.
Yes, I'm sure that was the idea. It's just one of those occasions when I'm a little disappointed that some of what sets Tolkien apart from other fantasy authors was lost--in this instance regarding the way he approaches "...what your folk would call magic."

In fact, what seemed strangest to me was the cloak's stretching abilities- doesn't it have to become much larger in order to cover them that well?
That didn't particularly bother me--I figure if it can act like a rock, it can certainly become whatever size it needs to be ;) .

IMHO, given the age-change for the character, Frodo does all right with Gollum, although I think his most "in charge" occasion is the "Who are you?" conversation, which isn't in the book. I also liked the way he delivered, "The Ring is treacherous. It will hold you to your word." Then we get a good "power shot" with Frodo standing in front of Gollum as he's on the ground: when the camera's on Gollum, Frodo is so far above him we don't even see his head. I thought that was a good visual for showing the situation between the two of them.

OTOH, Sam's physically harsher on Gollum in the movie. In the book, the rope's tied around Gollum's leg rather than his neck, and we find out later that Sam didn't really make it very tight. I don't remember him jerking Gollum the way he does in the movie. My guess is that he's harder on him in the movie to build up the tension in the triangle of relationships.

-------------------

This is an experiment. If a "Just a dream" picture shows up here, I will be very happy!

http://home.earthlink.net/~screencaps/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/cap7263-85.jpg

Yay! That means the webspace at Earthlink allows direct linking!

{{{{{{{sheryl}}}}}}}

Sad news, Sheryl. I’m sorry to hear it.


Was that Elvellon I saw here a little while back? *waves* Hi Elve! Nice to see you again :). And welcome to Whiteling :)
Happy Birthday to you both!
http://www.click-smilies.de/sammlung/party/party-smiley-032.gif

Mariol asked: Faculty friends around the world, do you suffer from a similar bias where you are? For example, it seems that EW's very big in Japan. I just don't know. As a member of the marketing-resistant minority, this prejudice is baffling to me.

American action films do reasonably well here, but they do even better if there’s an Australian in the cast! Our own industry tends to produce more character driven dramas, rather than big-budget special-effects action flicks (even Mad Max was more about the character than the FX). Heroes in these stories aren’t necessarily cast from the action hero mould. We tend to hero-ise the underdog, or even the bad guy, if he’s cheeky enough. (For example, one of our ‘heroes’– Ned Kelly – was a bushranger, hung for the murder of policeman.) LOTR – both FOTR and TTT stayed in the top 20 movies here (by box office) for at least 4 months. The audiences didn’t seem to be there for the action sequences alone, and, in fact, the teenage element (the target audience for action movies) soon seemed to peter out each time. You know, the group of 6-8 adolescent boys, who can’t sit still, let alone keep quiet for more than 5 minutes at a time. And who collectively forget to turn off their mobile phones. (No real disrespect intended to lurkers who might fit this demographic.)

Like tg, I would very much like to see Hollywood stood on its ear. But I don’t hold much hope of a little statue for Elijah. Or maybe I’m just trying not to get my hopes up to high. B-)

Very interesting Try17 pictures, Hobmom. Very, Very, interesting. ;) Almost as good as seeing the film! And thanks for the news, I was wondering when the hobbits would be going back to NZ. How long do these pick-up shot thingies usually last? (She asks, innocently, as there is just a chance that a trip to NZ may happen in early July.)

Ainon- that picture is from the Leno show, isn’t it? The one with the spider monkeys (cute little monkeys). Are there any screen caps of the monkeys??? (Oh, and Elijah?)

Thank you for the Black Gate screen caps, tg. For me, that is one of the most satisfying Frodo-moments in TTT. It is one of those ‘This is where book Frodo and movie Frodo are one’ moments. From his grim ‘I did’, to ‘I do not ask you to come with me Sam’, I think it’s a wonderful representation of how I’d imagined those scenes when I read the book.

(Although, Frodo doesn’t re-confirm his authority over Gollum, as he does in the book :( but that’s just a small quibble on my part.)

mariole:
It makes me a bit embarrassed about what products America so proudly exports, but apparently folks in Malaysia are taking to them just fine.

Well, don't forget that this is the part of the world where movies were all about fancy kung-fu stunts and excessive violence from Hong Kong, and weekly three-hour-long weepy dancy musical tragedy numbers from Bollywood. I'd say that Hollywood imports fit in just fine. :rolleyes: :p

Consolation: 'Finding Nemo' is a huge hit here, bigger than Neo. That's awfully nice, somehow. :)



------------

Shery, I'm sure you've seen all the good stuff around, but just making sure that you have seen this. ;)

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-6/93723/001.jpg


Btw, this cap (not mine) shows how much a hobbit cape can cover:
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-6/93723/006.jpg


these pics are all linked from Village Photos, so my apologies if my free bandwidth limit for the day is reached and all you see are red Xs.


Originally posted by estella rose
Ainon- that picture is from the Leno show, isn’t it? The one with the spider monkeys (cute little monkeys). Are there any screen caps of the monkeys??? (Oh, and Elijah?)

No, pics of the monkeys that I could fine, but there is this :D

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-6/93723/tat1.jpg


Thanks mariol and peaceweaver for the 'Tonight Show' info. Sorry, tg - I forgot to get back to you about that last night! Anyway, I think Hobmom had the best collection of 'Tonight Show' caps, didn't you, Hobmom?

:cool: that you have direct linking now, tg!


(Although, Frodo doesn’t re-confirm his authority over Gollum, as he does in the book ...

That was something I liked though, in the movie, that Frodo could reach out to Smeagol and have Smeagol trust him purely on the basis of that trust, without Frodo having to resort to invoking the Ring again to make Gollum obey.


So, a trip to NZ, estella? Not that I'm envious. Not at all. What's a trip to NZ while the hobbits are there? Meh. ;)

Maeglian--I haven't seen Elling and, yes, according to imdb.com a remake with Kevin Spacey is in the works. This frantic remaking activity strikes me as completely nonsensical :rolleyes:. Re: your question. In the Roadside Picnic, aliens have briefly visited our planet leaving "zones" full of strange and dangerous objects. "Stalkers" surreptitiously penetrate these zones bringing out alien devices for the black market. This SciFi setting and the colourful slang used by the stalkers to describe the unimaginable serve as background for the story of the rebellous and embittered protagonist. I can thoroughly recommend the book (and it's freely available on the net--one more link (http://www.ase.ee/moshkow/win/STRUGACKIE/engl_picnic.txt) :) ). IMVHO, Strugatskys' treatment of humbleness, stubborn resistance, knowledge, and inadequacy is more interesting than Tolkien's :eek:. There is some sort of "the Ring" in the Roadside Picnic but it's morally ambivalent; Mordor is within the human soul. In any case, the role of Redrick "Red" Schuhart must be a plum :).

tgshaw--Having said the above, I have the cheek to make a suggestion for your next sequence of crebain screencaps. Could you please do the "Ring petting scene" forward? Even when I am at my most sceptical, I still believe that the transition "creepy obsession--morbid curiousity--genuine pity--painful agony" transcends :cool:.

Originally posted by ainon
That was something I liked though, in the movie, that Frodo could reach out to Smeagol and have Smeagol trust him purely on the basis of that trust, without Frodo having to resort to invoking the Ring again to make Gollum obey.
I think there are a couple of reasons behind the change specifically at the Forbidden Pool. Story-wise, in the book Faramir knows about the Ring by that point (thanks to Sam) while in the movie he doesn't. And Frodo's smart enough to not threaten Gollum with some unnamed "Precious" with Boromir's brother--who already supposedly knows something about "Isildur's bane"--standing right there. Character-wise, IMHO it's another piece of guilt to pile on Frodo, as was having him rather than Gandalf make the decision to go through Moria. At this point, anyway, the Gollum side of the personality has regained control solely because "Master betrayed us." (The words of "Gollum's Song" during the credits fit right in.)

Originally posted by Brunhild
There is some sort of "the Ring" in the Roadside Picnic but it's morally ambivalent; Mordor is within the human soul. In any case, the role of Redrick "Red" Schuhart must be a plum :).
I read a quote (in Shippey's book, but I think he was quoting someone else--I'll have to look) that said in Tolkien's writing "the line between good and evil runs through the human soul." IMHO that's a marvelous statement. No character is completely good or completely evil (not even Sauron, Tolkien says specifically). It's at that line running through each human's soul that the battle between good and evil takes place, not in a fight between a simplistic "them" and "us." Of course, moral complexity (which you find a lot of in Tolkien) is very different from moral ambiguity or ambivalence (which you won't find a lot of in Tolkien).

That complexity is something else that IMHO has been mostly lost in the movies--perhaps unavoidably, I don't know. We've seen it in Gollum, of course (although in a rather simplistic manner, if that makes any sense :rolleyes: ), and, interestingly, in two of the surprisingly evocative characters--Boromir and Grima. We've had some glimpses of it in Frodo, but that struggle within his soul--IMVHO, the central "storyline" for the character--is so internal that it's difficult to film.

That we've had even the "glimpses" we have is mainly due to Elijah's acting; most of Frodo's best lines wouldn't really say much without his delivery. But that's also made me wish even more that he'd had about ten years longer to mature before playing the role. (He's still better at 20 than another actor would have been at 30, but what he could have done at 30, with perhaps a more mature understanding of that "line running through the human soul" :eek: ! It wouldn't matter if it wasn't written into the script--we'd understand it anyway.)

tgshaw--Having said the above, I have the cheek to make a suggestion for your next sequence of crebain screencaps. Could you please do the "Ring petting scene" forward? Even when I am at my most sceptical, I still believe that the transition "creepy obsession--morbid curiousity--genuine pity--painful agony" transcends :cool:.
I need some clarification there :confused: -- by from there "forward," do you mean earlier in the movie or later? There's some interesting stuff both ways, I think, but probably moreso afterward.

-------I've been thinking some more about Mordor being within the human soul. If that's taken as a complete statement I don't think Tolkien would agree, for which I'm very, very glad. One thing Tolkien did believe is that the human soul--although never perfect--is basically good. That's where we get the hope that runs through his writing, even though it's hope without guarantee. One reason some modern "literary types" declare his writing can't be any good, and one of the main reasons I like it; to me, it rings true--most people I know are flawed but good. He's being extremely Catholic there, I'm afraid ;) , and I wouldn't want it any other way.

tgshaw--I meant the sequence from the Ring petting to the Nazgul alert. I'm not sure that "obsession--curiousity--pity--agony" is a valid description but that's how I remember it.
Posted by tgshaw
One thing Tolkien did believe is that the human soul--although never perfect--is basically good.
The hero of the Roadside Picnic wants to believe this too--and says so at the very end of the book. It's that he arrives at this point by a different--and IMVHO more humane--route. But, of course, literary tastes vary :cool:. ---I've always suspected that "literary types" are not so fond of JRRT's writing because of cavalry officers commonly using the word "yonder" ;) :D.

I finally had the opportunity to watch AW! :) My review, in brief:

Francis walked much, and cursed more, and tried
to convince all of Sean's death. The side-
effect of all his toil was
a more serious loss:
t'was the story's own logic that died.

As for Lij in Ash Wednesday:
He looked a tad uninspired, I'd say.
Could be post-Frodo blues,
the weak script, or his muse
just decided on straying away.


I pretty much agree with what others have said about the film, so I won't repeat that. But under all the faults, there was a film I could really, really have enjoyed! The sense-of-doomishness, the film noir darkness and squalor, the several involved good actors, the "being my brother's keeper" theme, the married couple reunited after several years...... could have made for a wonderful story if only someone had worked more on that illusive logic !

And as a foreigner I'm left wondering whether Americans really use the F-word that much. It got really distracting, to the point where I just got mildly curious about how many times one person would - or could - possibly use it inbetween breaths.

EJW did a reasonable job, I thought, - he was quite OK in a couple of the more talkative and expressive scenes he had alone with Ed Burns, if you just managed to forget what he was actually *saying*. "You and dad [gasp] *killed* people!?" :rolleyes:

Oh, and now that I've seen that last scene where Francis is putting on his brother's clothes, I didn't think he was out to fool anyone that he *was* his brother.... just that by doing so he symbolically merged himself and his brother, and so wanted the fate that was waiting out there for both of them to attach itself to him only. I liked that. In fact, the benefit of not being a Catholic was that I didn't think the religious symbolism was too heavy-handed at all, probably because I didn't notice half of it. :o

Originally posted by Brunhild
---I've always suspected that "literary types" are not so fond of JRRT's writing because of cavalry officers commonly using the word "yonder" ;) :D.

[Keep that in mind for the current entry in the LotR quote game ;) . I left another clue there, too.]

But my guess is that it's because of orcs using the word "fellow"--I just ran across a second one of those. What kind of totally evil creature calls his prisoner "this fellow?" :rolleyes: Figure they must have gone to Eton with staple-snout :p . [Note to self: Some day must make study of exactly what types of orc use the word "fellow." Is it only ones from Mordor? :D ]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Maeglian
And as a foreigner I'm left wondering whether Americans really use the F-word that much. It got really distracting, to the point where I just got mildly curious about how many times one person would - or could - possibly use it inbetween breaths.
QUOTE]

In my experience, no. But then I don't live in Hell's kitchen, Harlem, or inner city Chicago, etc. The thing that always cracks me up about the overuse of it in movies is that, even after 100's of times, they still expect us to be shocked. For example, in the scene in the kitchen with EB and EW, EB chides EW for using it when asking about EB's relationship with his wife. (UHH, excuse me, didn't he grow up there?) Now that I think about it, Elijah's muse seemed a little on vacation in that scene. (LOVED the poem, Maeg)

I don't think Elijah was miscast. Let's see, a 21 year-old who's been in college for three years and is back. I just wish they had given him more credit that he could *act* like he was somewhat different without hitting you over the head (he was the only one whose face was clean and how can you get into any college when you couldn't figure out that your family killed people). Despite his pretended ignorance, he was quick enough to grab the gun and do it himself.

A reviewer said you just have to focus on the symbolism and forget about the logic. Sorry, can't manage.

My biggest gripe about AW is when we *finally* get to the reunion scene it was so incredibly dark I couldn't see his face at all on my TV. Can you adjust it so it's seeable on the computer?

When I watch EW movies I always watch them all the way through at least the first time. Then I often do the Elijah-fan cut.
I think I'll rent AW once more for the first and last scenes only.

I will never again watch Black and White ("icky, slimy", except for the end credits ;) ) or TT & T or Internal Affairs.

I wondered if Elijah's mom let him watch IA when he was 8 or so. I wouldn't let my kids.

I guess I need to watch Bumblebee again. I had a hard time taking it seriously. I guess I should have rented it before Radio Flyer.

I loved Huck Finn, Good Son, War, Ice Storm, Chain of Fools.

He had some good moments in Oliver Twist.

Ok I'm rambling on and I'll stop.

tgshaw--The quip about "yonder" was an answer to your question at the Quote Thread. I decided to give others a chance yonder by posting a wink here :). ---Tolkien orcs could have learnt a couple--or perhaps the couple--of words from the Sullivan brothers :D. The way they actually speak, one imagines Sauron chasing stray orcs from his lawn with the immortal Oxbridge "Off the grass, gents!" :p

Since Hollywood is remaking Norwegian films almost as soon as they are made, I think that the Scandinavians can have their revenge by remaking LotR in, say, eight or ten years. They can use the Synopsis or some similar cutting idea to make it a single film with fewer actors. Of course, Frodo will have to be played by the more mature EJW :). Furthermore, if Stellan Skarsgård is cast as Aragorn, there will be no need to digitally shrink EJW at all :D.

So Maeg has joined those of us who've endured Ed Burns' walks. :D I agree with you that the film could have been interesting - the potential for it to actually work is there. Somewhere. Oh well. Let's hope Ed has learned a thing or two from this. Like, for his next film, he ought to play a wheelchair-bound fellow. Or even better, he ought to be bed-ridden! And mute! And illiterate too, so we won't have any risk of him trying to communicate. Ah, the perfect role: be comatose. It'll be a brilliant job for him, and I'm sure his contribution will make that movie vastly more tolerable. :D


Originally posted by Maeg
Oh, and now that I've seen that last scene where Francis is putting on his brother's clothes, I didn't think he was out to fool anyone that he *was* his brother.... just that by doing so he symbolically merged himself and his brother, and so wanted the fate that was waiting out there for both of them to attach itself to him only.

That's deep, dude. :) I still don't think he's trying to do anything than just get a coat and stupid cap on though. Francis doesn't know that there's another guy also gunning for Sean, and that the guy only has the description of the coat and cap to identify Sean. Which as we all agreed before, was the most wonderful thing to happen since it pointedly stopped Franny's last walk. Perfect. :D


As for F-words in movies ... any Quentin Tarrantino movie will update you on the minimum number of times that word should appear in a spoken sentence in order to make the character :cool: . I suspect Ed failed to reach that minimum ... could be another factor to consider for the less than satisfactory overall outcome of Ed's movie. Not that I'm volunteering for that research. :p ;)


nurse, ramble on. You and I agree on pretty much everything ;) ... I definitely recommend 'Radio Flyer'. Both kid actors are excellent there. The blood make-up ain't anything to shout about though. :D Oh, and according to Elijah, he didn't see 'Internal Affairs' until he was older - there was an interview where he said this. His mom wouldn't let him watch it when he was little. :)


Blossom -- I kept forgetting to download your Huck gif. (ainon trouts self). Now I have, and thank you. :k

Anyone else get the feeling that a "Protect Ed from ainon" society may at one point have to be established? :D (Sorry! :k ) I still don't think he's trying to do anything than just get a coat and stupid cap on though. Yeah, but the way he was doing so s-l-o-w-l-y and p-o-r-t-e-n-t-u-o-u-s-l-y kind of signalled to me that more was seriously going on there. But maybe he was just giving your "staying comatose" idea a serious trial. :D Francis doesn't know that there's another guy also gunning for Sean, and that the guy only has the description of the coat and cap to identify Sean. Yes, but *logically*, with all the backstory there, and knowing that the guys who were gunning for Sean and himself were not the movers and shakers, just the guns for hired help, he *had* to know that more would be forthcoming, and be after the both of them.
Oh, wait, did I say "logically"?!? :eek: OK, just forget all of my latest paragraph.....

I still think Ed was trying to convey some symbolic message there, though. :)


Nurse, I definitely agree with you in giving Bumblebee a second try. Once that necessary suspension of disbelief *has* been achieved, there's good, understated and very angsty acting galore in there. :) And way back when it had us discussing medical ethics and limits of medical research at some length..... in addition to any number of details in the plot. Charm bracelets, anyone? :o

Thank you for the summary of the other films, it's always interesting to read opinions on those! i'm grumpy that I haven't managed to get hold of Radio Flyer. :(


Brunhild, I was thinking just the same thing sometime back when I was quoting Shagrat or Gorbag in the quote game: Those two carry on a concise, lucid and quite polite conversation, really, and the very occasional expletive is no worse than "garn". A growl, or one of them spitting, otherwise is the only way to determine that they are orcs. (Well, apart from the fact that neither will win the prize for superorcish intelligence, either). Sean Sullivan and Wren whatever-his-family-name-was could have a thing or two to teach those orcs about foul language. Even when Shagrat has been wounded and is threatening Snaga, and is killing Gorbag, his language is much more proper than that of the brothers Sullivan when quarreling. :rolleyes:

Hello all.

nurse - I totally share your feelings about 'Black & White.' Even Elijah's presence (IMHO he LOOKED amazing in that film) could not induce me to watch it again!

Although I haven't seen 'Ash Wednesday,' from what I've heard I don't think it would be high on my list of 'must see EW films.' THAT much swearing does put me off - old codger that I am.:rolleyes: :)

Go on, nurse -watch 'Bumblebee' again. You know you want to! I'll back Meag up by agreeing with her about the understated angst from Elijah. I really love 'Bumblebee' - I just don't ask myself, 'Is this a believable situation?' anymore. I watch it for Elijah's wonderfully restrained acting. I feel for Barney, I care about him. His loss of, and search for, his identity and the heart-breaking decision he is forced to make is both tragic and poignant. One of my very favourite EW performances.

ainon - glad you finally got the Huck Finn gif.:)

Speaking of Huck - I got the DVD quite recently and everytime I watch it I get this little 'froshadowing' moment. Don't know if any of you ladies will agree - but this:

http://www.imagemagician.com/images/blossom/HFsmile.gif

reminds me of this:

http://www.imagemagician.com/images/blossom/Bree.gif

I've never come up with one of those before!:)

Hope things are going OK down in NZ at the moment. Makes you wonder what PJ has up his sleeve. I feel excited yet anxious where ROTK is concerned. I'm confident that Elijah will deliver the goods perfectly - it's what they give him to work with that worries me. Oh well, only another six months of nail-biting to go!

Hi all! I have been out of town for a few days so am just now getting all the wonderful birthday wishes... thanks so much for the cake and hugs! :k

Well, I can thank Elijah for a wonderful birthday treat I had. Since discovering that he and I have similar musical tastes I have been checking out bands he recommends. One that I have really gotten into lately is The White Stripes, and they just happened to be playing in Raleigh on Monday (the city where my family lives, and where I was visiting). That had to be one of the best concerts I have ever seen! The lead singer, Jack White, is amazing, and he has that same wild eyed insane look that Elijah has in some pictures. He is an amazing performer, and I highly recommend seeing them live if you like loud, bluesy guitar music. I also found out that Jack will be playing Renee Zellwegger's musician husband in that upcoming Nicole Kidman film that was shot in Romania, so that should be interesting to see. (I know this is way OT, but I'm sure EW is a fan of Jack's, so maybe it's not too far of a stretch! :D )

Blossom, congratulations on your fist froshadowing - and an animated one, no less! :) Very impressive.

So ainon, I gather you are not too fond of Mr. Burns? :p One thing I will say for Ash Wednesday is that I thought it was very beautifully shot... the lighting and camera work elicited a feeling of sadness throughout the entire movie, and the music contributed to it as well. I think Elijah did okay in his role, but he did "stick out" to me. However at this point, I can't tell if that is due to his acting, or due to the fact that I am so familiar with him that I single him out in all his roles. Does anyone else have this problem? Do you ever forget it's him acting? I think the only role I "forget" him in is Frodo. The rest of his films I watch just because he's in it, so I am always specifically paying attention to him.

Originally posted by Maeglian
Anyone else get the feeling that a "Protect Ed from ainon" society may at one point have to be established? :D

Ooh! Oh, can I join? Can I? Can I? Hey. Waittaminute .... :p :D

Blossom, that's a nice and interesting froshadowing. Yup, it's that smile. Not that the circumstance is nice for Huck, but from an angst POV ... errr ... never mind. :D


These are a couple of behind-the-scenes screencaps that I found on-line. Figure it's the fireplace "Nothing, there's nothing," scene in Bag End. Anyway, makes me smile seeing him smile. :)

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-6/93723/EWIM.jpg

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-6/93723/EWIM-1.jpg

Originally posted by nurse
For example, in the scene in the kitchen with EB and EW, EB chides EW for using it when asking about EB's relationship with his wife.
IMVHO, that was Ed's ingenious way of avoided the question. His brother asks him pointblank "Did you ---- my wife [when you knew I was alive, BTW]?" And he did. Rather than tell the truth or lie, he says, "Oh, my dear brother! You shouldn't use that terrible word when you're talking about your own lovely wife! I'm shocked! Just shocked!" :rolleyes: Hmmm... sounds like an experienced older brother to me. ;)

...how can you get into any college when you couldn't figure out that your family killed people.
IIRC, he was growing wheat in Texas, not going to college (probably a bit easier to fake your identity in the first "career" than the second, when you're supposed to be dead). But, yes, he was supposedly the bright member of the family (...and... mmm.... don't know if I should go there... :p ).

If we did want his killing the three guys to make logical sense :rolleyes: , we could say he was bright enough to pretend he didn't know. That also gives us an excuse for Elijah not sounding terribly convincing in those lines :) -- maybe that's how he had it figured out for the character, even though the script didn't give it to him. I may have to watch that scene in the car again to see if that hypothesis fits his delivery ;) .

A reviewer said you just have to focus on the symbolism and forget about the logic. Sorry, can't manage.
Well, I said that :o -- but meant it rather tongue-in-cheek. Or for those who are more interested in the method of moviemaking than the story.

My biggest gripe about AW is when we *finally* get to the reunion scene it was so incredibly dark I couldn't see his face at all on my TV. Can you adjust it so it's seeable on the computer?
I routinely have the brightness level cranked up as high as it will go for most movies on my DVD drive. So, yes, you can adjust it. IMHO, the one saving grace of the lighting in that scene was that the moving vehicle moved in and out of the glare of streetlights, so you could kind of get your bearings for the dark stretches--kind of like watching a magic lantern show. [And I know I regularly say things to date myself, but I don't personally remember those ;) .] But that might be because I was watching it at a lighter setting to begin with, so didn't completely lose the action in the dark. For some reason, the screencaps came out darker--the ones I have on my site are a little darker than the scene as I actually saw it on my computer monitor, even though I've lightened them up a bit.

I guess I need to watch Bumblebee again. I had a hard time taking it seriously.
I had to watch it a couple of times in order to be able to do that. I mean, my day job is in cancer research FGS :eek: ! Thankfully, I was moved enough by the movie's ending--compared to that of the book--to want to watch it again. I see it as a science fiction movie with a shaky premise (you know, like "warp drive" :rolleyes: ). If you accept that the experiment in the movie could actually work as the scifi story's "what if," IMVHO the rest falls into place.

I loved Huck Finn, Good Son, War, Ice Storm, Chain of Fools.

He had some good moments in Oliver Twist.
Ditto to all :) -- except that I think I'd put Good Son down just a notch from "loved" because there were things there that I had a harder time accepting than the experiment in Bumblebee. But I still enjoyed the movie, and Elijah does a great job.

from Elve
Do you ever forget it's him acting? I think the only role I "forget" him in is Frodo. The rest of his films I watch just because he's in it, so I am always specifically paying attention to him.
Mikey Carver in Ice Storm does it for me. A unique, fully-realized character--so different from any of Elijah's other roles, and from Elijah himself!

Also, when I saw Avalon in the theater, of course, I had no idea who Elijah was, but when I watched it again a couple of years ago I found that almost everything I'd remembered from the movie (except for the bit about carving the turkey) was part of his character's storyline. He must have made quite an impression on me without my being aware of it, considering he's not the lead character.

from ainon
These are a couple of behind-the-scenes screencaps that I found on-line. Figure it's the fireplace "Nothing, there's nothing," scene in Bag End. Anyway, makes me smile seeing him smile.
...and seeing his head higher than Gandalf's :p . But, yes, the smile makes me wonder what Sir Ian was saying right then. :)

Oh boy, we're talking about EW movies! Yes!!! ;)

I just caught The Ice Storm on tv the other day, by accident (really! :o ) and I must agree with tg that Elwood completely disappears into the character he played. His performance as Mikey was just awesome. (and I watched for some of the subtleties my dear colleagues here had pointed out to me; thank you all!)

Now Ash Wednesday, well, suffice to say it is not an EW movie I have rushed out to purchase. My expectations had been so high for the film, given EB's reputation and all, that I was sorely distressed at the result. :( I think I would rate Good Son higher than tg does, despite Mc Culkin's overacting. Hmm, it may be time to view Bumblebee again. :)

ainon, I love those pictures! do ya think we'll ever see an outtakes or bloopers reel from these films? (or will the "making of" films--so carefully edited to present the official story--be all we get?)

Elve, did I miss your birthday? Glad it was a good day! Big :k

tg: wonderful caps of the Black Gate!

Blossom, nice froshadowing! I'm with you thinking about RoTK reshoots. I can't decide which phrase I look forward to hearing Elijah deliver most.

Hello all,

well, Blossom, I really agree completely what you see as 'froshadowing' moment in Huck Finn.
Btw, I love your gifs :) !

My personal 'froshadowing' in HF is the moment quite in the film's beginning when Huck discovers his father's footprints in the river sand. The following close-up of his face made me sigh "Oh, there's Frodo!" :cool:

Very nice behind-the-screen-caps, ainon! Thank you :) !

Quote by tgshaw:
Mikey Carver in Ice Storm does it for me. A unique, fully-realized character--so different from any of Elijah's other roles, and from Elijah himself!

I totally agree, tg. I used to work with disturbed teenagers and with people in psychiatric ward so Elijah's portrayal of Mickey Carver convinced me entirely. I'm always aware of the fact that it is him but nevertheless I can immerse into his character embodiment. His Mickey Carver is really brilliant.

I LOOOVE The Ice Storm --Even as angsty and generally depressing it is, there are so many EW acting gems!

*spoilers*

One of my favorite lines from the movie--- "You were gone?" said to Mikey's dad. The expression and delivery are so perfectly in tune with Mikey and his character. :)

Another tiny perfect Mikey moment is at the dinner party (at the very beginning) when Mikey upends that bottle of wine and takes a big swig. To me, his posture and action conveys very clearly how stressed he is by the demands being made on him and how out of place he feels.

Bumblebee is one of my very favorite EW movies, not least because it makes me cry every time I watch it.

EW's acting is superb as ususal. :) The interaction between him and ....oh dear, I can't remember his name---Cassie's brother? Anyway, when he says to Barney, "Why are you here? You're not dying."

Barney gets this sly look and replies "You asked? You do care." And after another comment, Barney says, "Come on. What gay guy would want you."

EW so seldom gets good come-back lines (except in HF, of course), it was nice to see he got a few in this movie. ;)

Happy Belated Birthday, Elve!!

Originally posted by Maeglian
And as a foreigner I'm left wondering whether Americans really use the F-word that much. It got really distracting, to the point where I just got mildly curious about how many times one person would - or could - possibly use it inbetween breaths.


I live in a rather scungy neighborhood, where there's usually at least a few people around who have "no visible means of support" (i.e., they're probably living off illegal activities), and even here they don't use foul language as much as they do in many movies. We had a group of drug dealers in the "pink house" across the street at one point, and *they* didn't use foul language as much as people in movies. The college kids in the quad by the "pink house" don't talk that way normally; however if they're good and drunk and partying they can't seem to remember much of anything *but* swear words. :rolleyes:

I put "pink house" in quotes because it isn't pink any more, alas. The owner put up brownish siding. :(

Originally posted by Brunhild

I've always suspected that "literary types" are not so fond of JRRT's writing because of cavalry officers commonly using the word "yonder"

I always figured that "literary types" don't like JRRT because his writing is so accessible for the average man. He *can't* be any good if anyone can understand and enjoy him. :rolleyes: Why, yes, as a matter of fact I *was* a lit major at one point, and the experience did indeed make me bitter... :p

Originally posted by Elvellon

Does anyone else have this problem? Do you ever forget it's him acting?

I do if I connect with his character, and once I've connected well I can reconnect even if I'm seeing bits and pieces of the movie. Quite often when I'm doing frame-by-frame stuff with FOTR I have to watch the scene a couple of times to feel with Frodo before I can settle down and think about EW's acting - same with Huck Finn; I'll mean to consider the acting and find myself swept into the character.

I have more of a problem the first time with a movie seeing it as EW than as the character - the first time I saw the War I was very aware that it was EW; the second time I sort of "dropped into" the character and enjoyed it that way. But I tend to keep a certain distance from a movie if I don't know the story, for fear someone I connect with gets killed or something. I'm kind of pathetic that way. :p I'm sure half the reason I could get *so* immersed in FOTR the first time through is that I knew what would happen, and I'd heard it stuck fairly close to the story, so I could just relax and go with it.

By the same token, part of the reason TTT didn't hit me so hard the first time is that I *didn't* know exactly how it was going to work, so I was wary of PJ clobbering me in some unexpected way (that he'd turn Frodo into a jerk was my primary fear). The second time I was much more able to relax and go with the flow.

Originally posted by tgshaw

I see it as a science fiction movie with a shaky premise (you know, like "warp drive" :rolleyes: ).

Hey, watch that! Man wasn't supposed to fly, he wasn't supposed to be able to travel faster than 45 miles an hour ("no air at that speed!"), couldn't break the four-minute-mile, couldn't travel faster than sound, couldn't get into space... Warp drive is no shakier a theory than those were - at one time. ;)

Originally posted by peaceweaver

Oh boy, we're talking about EW movies! Yes!!!

:D

It is nice, though, isn't it? :) But if I don't watch it, I'll be going on a quest for Bumblebee soon... Now is *not* the time. We're heading for Tennessee sometime tomorrow - "Right after the kids have their dentist appointment," according to hubby, but he has yet to reveal to me or the kids when said dentist appointment is. :rolleyes: Anyhow, if I don't have time to check in tomorrow, I'll be gone for over a week visiting and may not get on here (slow dial-up connection on the only phone). But when I get back, maybe... The older two will be gone for a week, so it may actually be quieter around here, so we'll see.

I want to see the Good Son again, and that I could do anytime the kids are down if I just got prepared first. Not letting the kids watch it, though, nope! If my mother were not in the midst of an X-Files obsession I could probably get her to watch it with me, but I'm pretty sure she's going to be wanting to catch up on her tapes and discs. My sister bought her a whole season's worth on DVD, and mom's been traveling or had guests since then. Although she may have pinned Aunt Kathy down with some of it I suppose...

No, wait, I'm taking the crebain TTT to try to get her to watch that. She can't sit for that long in the theatre - for a while she couldn't sit through a church service, although I think she's back up to being able to handle an hour or so of sitting - so I know she hasn't seen it. And the kids wouldn't complain at all... except they've seen it often enough that they talk about it during their viewings, so maybe mom and I should do that after they're down. Guess I'd rather do that than see The Good Son.

The *real* problem about seeing new-to-me EW movies is that I'm too busy watching the "old" ones. :D

Sheryl

Stormy! So good to see you here! :)
I love Mikey Carver too. Guess it's no secret that apart from LotR, Ice Storm is my favourite EJW movie. And it sure isn't because of the cheerful storyline and all the nice and likeable characters. Nah. It’s Elijah's tremendous acting, and that distressing storyline that can't just be dismissed, but needs to be thought through..... m-hm. Wish he'd do more "ordinary people and family dramas" like that. Or like "Ordinary people". :)


ainon, niiice pictures, and Blossom! Wonderful Froshadowing! Animated Froshadowings - the way to go! :)


Can I forget that it's EJW acting? No, I think I can't completely do that, not anymore. Not even with LotR. But I do think I can “partition my mind” so that while one part is aware who that is, acting, another is enjoying the story and the character whole-heartedly and without quibbles. That is, if we're talking about a good film. Like LotR, of course. If the film is poor, like B&W or AW, I'm *very* aware that it's EJW acting, and I'm evaluating the acting, because no part of my mind gets wholly immersed in the story. (Hey, if warp drive can be argued, so can mind partitioning, I'm sure. Not that I have a clue what warp drive *is*. I would surmise something Star Trek-ish? :D )
If my mother were not in the midst of an X-Files obsession… Hey, I just incidentally discovered a plot element in the later X-files seasons (probably the last one that has David Duchovny as a lead character in every episode) that should send women running, screaming, for the hills. Do you *know* what Mulder keeps in his refrigerator? Wouldn't that be enough to get your mother to watch TTT instead? :) Oh, maybe not. I used to be quite taken with the X-files myself, once.

A very safe journey to you and your family, Sheryl. :)


Back to Ash Wednesday and some further "deep" thoughts on that one :D

A thought struck me when reading Tg's rendition of the wholesome "Did you **** my wife?!" discussion between Sean and Francis. That's the reason why Francis has to atone with his life, isn't it? Sean killed 3 guys to protect his brother, but that's OK, 'cause he was protecting his *brother*! And Francis was a killer, but hey, that was the family business, and he was supporting his father in his work :rolleyes: so that didn't mark him for death. But once he has an affair with his brother's wife, even though he knew his brother was alive (and once he disguised that rather important fact from said wife), that's when he overstepped the line and *that* is what marked him for death.

It struck me that this kind of storyline and morality; - protect the family with the sword, the family should stick together against the rest of the world, messing with the wrong woman earns you death; - probably would have found approval from and recognition with each and every pre-Christian Scandinavian male and female. That very storyline reminds me much of plotlines in several of the Icelandic Family Sagas (which are supposed to be historic events, taking place shortly before AD 1000, i.e. before the introduction of Christianity, although the sagas were not written down until the 1200's / 1300's.

For instance, "Laksdøla Saga" or "Gunnlaug Ormstunges Saga" both have this kind of story element. (Sidetracking for a moment, the name of the man that the latter saga was named for translates as Gunnlaug Wormtounge. :eek: If I recollect this properly, he was called so because of the satiric and waspish wit he displayed as a bard, *not* because of his duplicity. Difficult not to think of old Grima, though. :D )

The men's side of the AW story (both the Sullivan brothers’ story and that of the various other gangsters, not least the Irish guy who admonishes the others to kill anyone who messes with them, straight away and without further ado) has the true ring of Norse males. Take Laksdøla, now: It includes the story of two foster brothers (Kjartan and Bolle) who are very close, but where Bolle ends up marrying a woman who actually loves Kjartan and has waited long for him, but has been jilted by him. She eggs her husband on to fight his foster brother because of perceived slights against the married couple. (Probably in the hope that Kjartan will end up killing her husband instead, if truth be told) After various strife and incidents, the foster brothers do end up in a situation where their honour codex requires them to take to the sword to fight each other to the death. Bolle kills Kjartan, who won't defend himself properly, and who expires in his foster brother's lap. And then, a couple of years later, Kjartan's real brothers kill Bolle, as was *their* duty under that family honour codex. An eye for an eye, truly. And reminiscent of AW male behaviour.

I guess the Christian symbolism comes into AW in that Sean doesn't get confirmation about Francis’ and Grace’s relationship, and so he himself doesn’t end up killing his brother for having transgressed against him…….? Instead it’s "fate", helped by the penitent Francis himself, that punishes Francis. *And* the symbolism is overflowing in the character of Grace. Her name, the fact that she's guiltless, having believed her husband to be dead, and that she's a young woman with a little son, fleeing from pursuers that mean to kill a family member, going off at once into the unknown with the husband she hasn't seen in 3 years..... I wonder whether her full name wasn't in fact Grace Mary Ruth Sullivan?

Ahem - I also wonder if Ed Burns wouldn't be ROTFLHAO if he read the above. Probably something entirely different was his message to those watching the film than allusions to Icelandic Sagas, for sure. Other movie mafia family sagas will do more than well enough as comparison basis, I suppose. :o I’d better shut up now. :o

tgshaw's comment about Bumblebee having a shaky premise made me smile. Of course, the existence of an evil ring is a much more solid axiom :D. But that's how suspension of disbelief works. It's easier to inhabit a very different reality than a slightly different one. One more reason why fantasy sells better than "classical" science fiction.

There is an edition of the Ice Storm (the book) with an afterword by Rick Moody about the making of the film. Moody says that "killing the kid" was pivotal for the veracity of the adaptation but never gets to mention EJW's name. OTOH, there's a lengthy bit about the beauty of the actors playing the Hood family culminating in the question: But is this beauty true? Either Moody didn't find EJW beautiful :D or he had no doubts about the truthfulness of that beauty :). ---It seems that PJ finds "killing the kid" a cool narrative device too. Throwing Ian McKellen down and beating Viggo Mortensen up wouldn't really convince contemporary movie-goers that Sauron is so absolutely evil. Torturing Frolijah is far more effective :rolleyes:.

Maeglian--Borges wrote a lucidly depressing short story The Intruder (La Intrusa in Spanish) about two brothers in love with the same woman. Borges knew Norse folklore very well and gave his Argentinian heroes a Scandinavian name, Nilsen. The last sentence in Spanish: Ahora los ataba otro vinculo: la mujer tristemente sacrificada y la obligación de olvidarla. :eek: If Ed Burns had known about that one, we'd have got an altogether different EJW movie.

Originally posted by Maeglian
I wonder whether her full name wasn't in fact Grace Mary Ruth Sullivan? Ahem - I also wonder if Ed Burns wouldn't be ROTFLHAO if he read the above. [/B]
My thought was that he'd go "Oh $#@%!! How'd I'd miss including that?" ;)

Maeg--Those saga storylines sound like they belong in opera! I do think Ed's attempted symbolism was much different. For one thing, I don't think we were supposed to think that harshly of Francis for having the affair (that was just the impression I got--"We were both going through a hard time then."). And the in-your-face crucifixion symbolism in the final scene would go with dying for the sins of his brother. BTW, going back to a recent discussion, I do think Francis put on Sean's coat and cap purposely. It wasn't the only coat there--IIRC he starts to take a different one, but then takes his brother's. And the way the coat fit--or didn't!--I think he'd notice; the sleeves went just a little below his elbows. It looked awfully uncomfortable.

----------

On warp drive and magic rings [More than you ever wanted to know :rolleyes: about speculative fiction follows. Gees Brunhild, why do you make me do these things ;) :p ?] :

Yes, Maeg, warp drive is exactly Star Trek :) . They use "warp" technology for travel faster than light in the way we use "supersonic" for faster than sound.

I don't really think that badly of it--more with a nostalgic fondness :) . When Star Trek was on TV in the 1960's, there really wasn't any accepted concept of how FTL travel could actually happen; they needed it for the show, so they came up with warp drive; it has something to do with anti-matter IIRC, which at the time was as acceptable a guess as anything else.

Star Trek's "problem" was that it didn't die in the 1960's the way it was supposed to. It was still around when new scifi shows came along that used hyperspace and wormholes, which are more scientifically likely ways that FTL speed would be reached if it ever is. But Star Trek had established the warp drive, so was kind of stuck with it in order to keep the story consistent, even though science had passed it by. These days, the majority of theoretical physicists who work in the field think we'll have time travel before we have FTL travel, but popular scifi doesn't seem to have caught up with that yet. [Still one of my all-time favorite bumper stickers: "186,000 miles per second. It's not just a good idea--it's the law." ;) ]

It's kind of like reading Brave New World in the light of what's known today about genetics. You have to take it from the POV of what was known at the time. I call it the Ghosts effect, from the absolutely only bit of knowledge I remember from the one lit course I took in college: in Ibsen's Ghosts, a son suffers from syphilis that he inherited from his father. Which, of course, is impossible; you can't inherit syphilis. But back when Ibsen wrote the play, people thought you could--they'd see babies born with the disease caused by picking up the infection from the mother as they went through the birth canal, and assumed it was inherited (since if the father had the infection he'd usually pass it on to the mother, and a woman's symptoms often aren't as recognizable as a man's). It's basic to the symbolism of the play that the son inherited the disease from his father, but it's completely impossible. [BTW, the teacher didn't mention this at all. I was a biology/chemistry double major and kind of figured it out :p .]

---------

Star Trek and Brave New World are science fiction which, by definition, has to stay true to known science but then follows a "what if" that goes beyond it. Getting the science right is part of being a good science fiction writer.

OTOH, the other side of speculative fiction--fantasy--isn't bound by what's known to be scientifically possible. It's bound by the rules the author sets up for his/her creation. But whatever those rules are, the fantasy author had better follow them consistently just as much as the scifi author had better get the science right. The quickest way to get a knowledgeable fantasy reader to throw a book out the window is to say "this is how things work here," and then have things work differently. If an author creates a cosmos where, say, magic rings are possible, that's perfectly acceptable, as long as the way the magic and the rest of the world works is all internally consistent (which is why it grates on me a bit when the movies do something--like the "magic cloak"--that seems IMVHO to be inconsistent with Tolkien's system of magic).

So science fiction (such as Bumblebee and Star Trek) can have shaky premises if the science is unbelievable--the only time, IMVVHO, when you need suspension of disbelief for science fiction. Fantasy certainly has its share of shaky premises--often written by authors trying to imitate Tolkien--but they don't have anything to do with what's scientifically possible in our primary creation.


--------end of lecture on specfic ;) ---------

Originally posted by Maeglian
But once he has an affair with his brother's wife, even though he knew his brother was alive (and once he disguised that rather important fact from said wife), that's when he overstepped the line and *that* is what marked him for death.

Yes, that and the walking.:p

Bridget ducks the trouts

Ahem. Sorry...it just had to be said.:o :D

Originally posted by peaceweaver
ainon, I love those pictures! do ya think we'll ever see an outtakes or bloopers reel from these films? (or will the "making of" films--so carefully edited to present the official story--be all we get?)

I remember hearing somewhere (can't remember where:o ; probably here actually) that after all three films are released, PJ's putting together a super-special (think $$$$) DVD set of all three, which will include a blooper reel. Can anyone else find an actual reference of this somewhere?

I'm sometimes able to separate EW from his character, sometimes not. For instance, in movies like "Deep Impact" (my most recent EW viewing), well...I don't even remember his character's name anymore, and I just watched that last week.:o It was Elijah and his girlfriend, and Elijah discovering the comet...etc. And you know, I *only* watched that movie for Elijah (and because I heard a rumor that there was some good cloud scenery in it;) ). But stuff like "The Ice Storm" or "Radio Flyer" - I don't forget that it's Elijah acting, but I can still connect with the characters as the characters, if that makes sense. Kind of like when I'm watching "The Shawshank Redemption";) - I see Morgan Freeman on the screen, and I never forget that it's Morgan Freeman, but it's also 100% Red.

Fortunately, PJ prefers other kinds of symbolism than Ed Burns. Boromir would have looked really stupid if he'd put on Frodo's breeches for his last stand :D.

Posted by tgshaw
It's kind of like reading Brave New World in the light of what's known today about genetics. You have to take it from the POV of what was known at the time.
Nope. You have to use suspension of disbelief :D. You see, I am a scientist. If I thought that science fiction must stay true to actual science, I'd have to give it up altogether. However, warp drive is OK as long as it's ubiquitious for the plot and doesn't interfere with the holodeck ;). Getting the science right has little to do with being a good SciFi writer. Excellent SciFi books can be based on out-dated, bizarre, and even self-contradictory ideas (e.g., Bradbury's Martian Chronicles or Sheckley's Mindswap). IMO, SciFi is just a generic label for stories involving space travel, aliens, robots and such, while fantasy is a label for stories of knights and hobgoblins. There's no clear line between the two genres, although SciFi typically tends to be "future oriented" while fantasy is more often than not "past oriented." As for internal contradictions, I can't care less that JRRT's notion of orcs as "spoilt elves" leads to the wacky vision of dead orcs in the Halls of Mandos :D. ---Naah, I need warp drive or Saruman's voice to get this on topic :D.

Originally posted by Bridget Chubb
I remember hearing somewhere (can't remember where:o ; probably here actually) that after all three films are released, PJ's putting together a super-special (think $$$$) DVD set of all three, which will include a blooper reel. Can anyone else find an actual reference of this somewhere?

I remember Harry Knowles talking about a blooper reel in one of his journals, so he may have said this, or it could have been speculation from fans based on the fact that such a thing exists. It would be interesting to read Harry's article again (he talks about specific bloopers), but finding anything on that site is more of a challenge than the search for the holy grail. :rolleyes: :p (Hey Bridget :) )

Regarding noticing Elijah in his roles, I'm sure he as an actor can easily disappear into most of his characters, but seeing as how I've lost all objectivity with him, I have trouble seeing it happen. :( I also noticed it happening last night when watching the film "28 Days" on television, which stars Viggo... he stuck out like a sore thumb to me just because I am so much more familiar with him than I am the other actors. This can be contrasted with the first time I saw the film a couple years ago, pre LOTR - he blended in seamlessly so that I didn't even remember he was in that film. Interesting how that happens, and it kind of sucks when you just want to kick back and get absorbed by the story. Maybe I'll give Maeg's idea of brain partitioning a try! :)

Brunhild--Well, we totally disagree on what makes good science fiction, and on the definitions of science fiction and fantasy (as just a minor example, I and many fantasy readers I know rarely read fantasy that's set in the past).

I'm going to stop there, as I don't like getting upset in threads like this--takes all the fun out of it for me. I can take Tolkien jibes goodnaturedly, as they're always old arguments that I know all the sides of (and I figure the person saying them does, too). But in notions of various aspects of specfic, I'm not quite sure what's a joke and what isn't.

So rather than risk a two-post-long-because-of-word-count lecture to explain what I think about it :rolleyes: , I'd best agree to disagree and get back to something with Elijah Wood in it :) :

---------A strange thing happened on the way to the Ring petting: I got caught at the taming of Smeagol, probably because of the recent discussion on whether Frodo's commanding enough there. I'm about half through with setting up some web pages on it, but there's one point where I'm baffled and wonder if anyone wants to interpret what's going on. Sam's been the biggest surprise to me in this scene. This is not book Sam--which isn't necessarily a bad thing as far as the movie goes. He literally "gets in Frodo's face" for a good part of the scene. But how far does he take it? Does he actually get * gasp :eek: * physical with Frodo here? Or is something else happening (this is while Sam's jerking on Gollum's rope to get him back down off the rocks)?

http://home.earthlink.net/~screencaps/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/cap8424-85.jpg

http://home.earthlink.net/~screencaps/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/cap8426-85.jpg

http://home.earthlink.net/~screencaps/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/cap8427-85.jpg

http://home.earthlink.net/~screencaps/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/cap8428-85.jpg

from Brunhild
Boromir would have looked really stupid if he'd put on Frodo's breeches for his last stand
Yes, but think of how this would have affected Frodo's appearance for the other two films. :D Wait, let's not go there.

I don't have trouble sinking into a movie. I'm a great sinker -- unless the movie is a great stinker. :p So what Bridget said about Morgan Freeman (who I also really like :) ) holds true for me and EW. I couldn't appreciate him in AW due to the illogic and foul language -- thank you all for your forewarnings about B&W -- I think I'll skip this one. I've enjoyed all his other performances.

Tg, not sure what to say regarding Sam getting physical with Frodo or not. It's been a while since I've seen TTT. I remember that Sam was nonbookishly harsh in that scene. Still, I think I would have remembered if he'd been physical with Frodo. I think he was absorbed in trying to bring Gollum to heel, and if he shook off Frodo it was incidental (although it speaks to his perturbed state if he shrugged off Frodo and didn't even notice). Hurrah for continuing your crebain series. I will be in a TTTless space until the EE comes out in November.

Regarding the blooper reel, I have a dim memory of PJ saying that it would be inappropriate for the mood of the films to release it on any of the earlier DVDs, but he didn't seem to absolutely rule it out for perhaps the final EE for ROTK. I don't think this decision has been made. Considering the article I just read on TORN about the power of the web, we ought to get our votes in on this! I think there's been a lot of interest in the blooper reel and Elijah's audition tape, but I don't know if PJ will eventually release either of those.

Hey there, Stormy! Long time no see! :k

((((Bridget))))) :k :)

I'm with Bridget and Mariol on the sinking into movies business, although I know what you mean Elve. I watch most of Elijah's movies sheerly because I want to see him, so in my case I do purposely zoom my attention in on him. But I do this with other actors who interest me too, so it's not like exclusive for Elijah. Like, I'm also with Bridget and Mariol on Morgan Freeman, who has had his fair share of stinkers through the years but his performance in Shawshank will always redeem him. ( :swoon for Red's narration in Shawshank: ) And who was Elijah's President in Deep Impact, which brings this very nicely on-topic. See? ;)

Originally posted by tgshaw
BTW, going back to a recent discussion, I do think Francis put on Sean's coat and cap purposely. It wasn't the only coat there--IIRC he starts to take a different one, but then takes his brother's. And the way the coat fit--or didn't!--I think he'd notice; the sleeves went just a little below his elbows. It looked awfully uncomfortable.

Oh right. Now I remember. IIRC my take on it is he was wearing it so that he could walk around the streets again to show off to everyone that that was his outfit, and that Sean was never the one wearing it, thus dispelling rumours that Sean was back from the dead. Can you imagine what would have happened if the sniper hadn't been there?!! :eek: Oh my ... it doesn't bear thinking! Argh! I'm getting distressed just worrying if the sniper hadn't gotten the description of that coat and cap right! :eek: :D

Besides which, I thought the moral of the story was that you can't be smug, 'cos there's always gonna be that one stray bullet out there with your name on it. Dripping irony kinda thing. :p Them Sullivans, they're born sociopaths, that's what I figure. Ain't got no redemptive bone in their bodies. Old brother Franny ain't about to sacrifice his life for his kid brother - or he wouldn't have gone through that whole elaborate ploy to kill off all his known enemies in one night.

Maeg, that was beyond deep, dude. Whoa. If you keep this up, I'm gonna run out of Keanu Reeves impersonations. ;) Seriously though, that's really interesting and very, very bloody! :eek: Hopefully not what Ed was aiming for. LOL. I say that only because I'm worrying about what if Ed had gone for the Bollywood version of brotherly spats .... Argh! Too late. I can imagine it. I'm traumatised beyond help now. :(


----------


Elve, yup, Harry described some blooper bits at AICN. God help those who try-eth to seek them. :D Actually, shouldn't be hard to find: check out the second last chapter of his diary re: the 2000 LOTR set visit.

The X-Men DVD has Hugh Jackman's screen test available, so I'm still gonna hope that we will one day see Elijah's special audition tape included as a special feature in the Special Supreme LOTR DVD. :)

tg, ooh, it's very nice to see a crebain series right here in our Faculty pages. I agree with Mariol that it was incidental. Sam's got his hands full trying to 'stop' Gollum from running off; he probably can't imagine Frodo even wanting to try to prevent him from bringing Gollum to heel.

Trying to be brief for once..... and probably failing miserably :o


Tg, thank you for the interesting explanation and comments surrounding warp drive and science-based fiction. :)


About Osvald in "Ghosts", didn't we discuss a while back that that might be a role for EJW to try, should he ever decide to try stage acting in one of the more "classic" well-known plays? Still think that could work out. :) Although - yep, ... could work. Watching him deteriorate and go mad.... sounds strangely familiar when put in those general terms, no? :D


And yes, the Icelandic sagas are great dramatic reading. Their particular writing style is that you never get "inside" the characters - you never get their thoughts or inner monologues. You have to deduce their hefty feelings (pride, love, hatred, jealousy....) from their very short-clipped dialogue and their actions alone. And the actions can be quite telling. When the main female character, Helga, in Laxdøla wants to tell Kjartan her thoughts, she doesn't speak with him, but she steals his sword and sheath. The sheath is never seen again but the sword is found very visibly placed, chilling in cold water. How's that for overt sexual symbolism and a clear message to the guy who loved you and left you?


Brunhild - if I understand it correctly, in "The intruder" it's the woman who gets to pay with her life / gets sacrificed, and the guys get to live on? Definitely at odds with your normal Norse "last man standing" story. :D

From Mariole
Yes, but think of how this would have affected Frodo's appearance for the other two films.Hey, my thought exactly! :D
From Elve
Maybe I'll give Maeg's idea of brain partitioning a try! Elve, I'll admit there is one particular scene where that doesn't work. It's that "Angelic Osgiliath" shot of Frodo from the TTT trailer (my wallpaper gif, thanks to Deluby :k ) I can watch that, and watch that, and watch that, and tell myself: "That's Elijah Wood in makeup and wig." But either part of my brain flatly refuse to believe it. "That it Frodo", both my heart and brain tell me very emotionally, yet calmly and with conviction. "Elijah - who? " :o

From tg
And the in-your-face crucifixion symbolism in the final scene would go with dying for the sins of his brother. Yes, I do agree. Yet it is much more fun to come up with theories of those deep and convoluted symbolic meanings of the film, than to re-watch the film. :o Posting the "deep" symbolic meaning theories has the added benefit of more sarcastic ainon repartees, too - keep them coming! :k


What *is* the Bollywood version of broitherly spats - don't keep us in suspense! They kill each other after they've done a long song-and-dance routine about it? Something entirely different? How would the Bollywood version of AW be? Do tell! We're so traumatized already, a little more won't break us! :)


I have more to say........ but of course, the post is already loooong. I'll leave it for another day. Bye!

Maeglian--Speaking of Norse brothers, Ed Burns' inability to satisfy the refined taste of Faculty members reminds me of Gunnar trying to pacify the poisonous snakes in the pit by playing a harp with his feet :). And :eek: at your Osvald-Frodo comparison and the terrible analogy for the Ringbearer's malaise it seems to imply.

tgshaw--Sam's attention is entirely on the rope (and on Gollum at its other end) so he doesn't notice Frodo's somewhat hysterical outburst of pity. But it's still slightly weird to witness Sam elbow his master :eek:. ---PJ must have watched The Servant with Dirk Bogarde once too often :rolleyes:.

Ed Burns' inability to satisfy the refined taste of Faculty members reminds me of Gunnar trying to pacify the poisonous snakes in the pit by playing a harp with his feet. Well, it may certainly remind you of that, but the comparison is not *entirely* apt; - since Gunnar did in fact manage to pacify all the snakes, except a single one, who bit him in the heart and killed him...... So we'd have to figure out which one of the Facultiers has the absolutely sharpest tongue and is least likely to be lulled by sweet music or the visual equivalent. :D Who would you suggest? ;)

Incidentally, isn't this the very Gunnar who under false pretence married the valkyrie Brunhild, once asleep on that hill? :)
:eek: at your Osvald-Frodo comparison and the terrible analogy for the Ringbearer's malaise it seems to imply. I must admit that I didn't think quite that far. But now that you mention it, something *deep* could probably be made of analogies to the sins of fathers, or in this case, errors of uncles/cousins, combined with those facial expressions of Frodo's whenever he's almost putting on the Ring. OTOH, that analogy will if so have to be made by someone other than sweet-minded, uncomprehending me. :o

from ainon
tg, ooh, it's very nice to see a crebain series right here in our Faculty pages. I agree with Mariol that it was incidental. Sam's got his hands full trying to 'stop' Gollum from running off; he probably can't imagine Frodo even wanting to try to prevent him from bringing Gollum to heel.
---but if Sam hadn't frightened off poor liddle Smegs in the first place by yelling "I don't believe you!" at him, he wouldn't have had to bring him to heel :( .

-----------

Gee, four hours later and mine is still the last post, so I'll just add this as an edit. Four pages of "The Taming of Smeagol" on the new website:
http://home.earthlink.net/~screencaps/index.html

I was doing this scene and the Ring-petting-to-Nazgul sequence all at the same time, but then had to do an "info dump" when I was only about halfway through the Nazgul scare (my program will only take 999 screencaps, then I have to move them all into a different folder so it "thinks" it's empty). So I have some of the work done on that bit, but probably won't get back to it this weekend. One problem (well, a problem for me, anyway :rolleyes: ) with the Earthlink site is that all the editing has to be done online, which makes it way too easy to spend even more time on line--and I've got other things I have to get done this weekend :eek: .

Just want to give one more appreciation of the picture quality on this bird :) , especially--IMHO--on the closeup shots. I have to fix the aspect ratio on each frame, and can't make the pics any larger than I have or they start losing quality, but those are minor considerations. The people who made it are evidently better at some things than they are at subtitle translations ;) . Thanks to ainon again :) .

---but if Sam hadn't frightened off poor liddle Smegs in the first place by yelling "I don't believe you!" at him, he wouldn't have had to bring him to heel Thanks for saying that tgshaw (I was screaming it inside). Will check out your 'taming' series shortly.

Btw, have some musings about Frodo's free will - should start another thread, yes?

Maeg, that was beyond deep, dude. Whoa. If you keep this up, I'm gonna run out of Keanu Reeves impersonations.

:mad: I is watching you closely Ainon.....


Yay to Elvellon!! It's wonderful to see you!!! (Hmmm that phrase rings a bell....) . I should have said that much earlier but things are hectic and I've hardly even been lurking.

Brunhild.... I do believe you are (again) indulging in a little Tolkeinite Baiting to While Away Time. Tsk tsk. Are you bored or merely suicidal????;)
And what's the reference to "yonder" about. Can you clarify it. viz: are you stating that using the word "yonder" was indeed a common habit of cavalry officers (and if so:why?). Is this, from a lit fan POV ,a good or a bad thing? And specifically how does this relate to Tolk's writing: does he use it excessively? Is that good or bad? Does he use it not at all? Is this good or bad?
Or have you just made the whole thing up as an obscure pointer to anther thread.;)
No, really, I want to know what you are referring to here. What nationality are you btw? I often have trouble deciphering your posts and am wondering if this is a Myers Briggs thing or a cultural thing or a density (mine) thing.

Random Hugs for Sheryl.

Greetings to Whiteling. :)

I'm not happy about the hobbits being back here for a reshoot. I have become very suspicious of "reshoots" after Sam's United Nations Speech . Are these added to enhance the movie or to toss in a few bones to either the Bosses or The Prevailing Mood of the Times I wonders.

I'm not happy about the hobbits being back here for a reshoot. I have become very suspicious of "reshoots" after Sam's United Nations Speech . Are these added to enhance the movie or to toss in a few bones to either the Bosses or The Prevailing Mood of the Times I wonders. Hello Prim. I must live under a stone to be so intrigued. Could you please explain, especially 'the Bosses' in this context and the 'Prevailing Mood' you refer to? I can make some guesses that give me the willies. If it's too OT, just PM me if you like.

No sinister mystery Naiad. I am referring to the pressure that the New Line execs and their financial backers appear to have been placing on Jackson. I attribute, despite some of Jackson's own comments, Sam's speech to them, since its sappy sentimentality -much as the Bill the Pony "he'll be alright Sam..." line- is so out of character for him. I can't help feeling he did it under pressure and probably tongue in cheek.
This is opinion of course, but its based on a few comments on the DVD about New Line pressure and a few oblique mutters by Jackson over here about the wonders of Hollywood financing being tempered by the demands of the Studio to make sure the movies sell. To americans, I guess, primarily, since that is its hugest market and the source of the finance.

By the "prevailing mood" I'm referring to american sensitivities after the terrorist attacks and the need for a Chin Up type speech. I'm all for chin up speeches, but not clumsily inserted into Tolkein movies.

Tg, that "taming" caps series is great! The jaw setting is really back in force there, once Frodo's deciding what to do.


I'm not happy about the hobbits being back here for a reshoot. I have become very suspicious of "reshoots" after Sam's United Nations Speech My thoughts exactly. I've found myself worrying a little over what strange stuff they may be filming to placate New Line or to express some sentiment deemed proper to the times, altough not in line with Tolkien's way of writing or character canon. :( I wish they could just keep and use those first fresh scenes that were filmed, 4 years ago. (Squash court rejection scene and all).


An altoghether alternate topic:

Has anyone seen those 8 pics over at Always&Forever from someone's house, every room seemingly decorated from floor to ceiling with Elijah posters and pictures?

I suddenly was reminded of Mirabella's disturbing fic "Elijah's Eyes" aka "sometimes fandom is frightening" (It's about a fan who's losing it to her EJW fixation. Creepy, well written, and I can't provide a link here since Mira also writes NC-17 stuff and slash. But I guess some here have bookmarked her "House of Hobbits" site already?)

Anyway, I must confess there are times when I seriously figure I'll go back to being a Tolkien / LotR fan only and try to forget that I know so much about the actors (escpecially one of them :o ) Some part of fandom *really* scares me...... and have a look at those pics decorating the house. There aren't many pics there that I can't put a background story to (like which film they're promoting, which magazine / promo shoot that was, etc.) Worries....

At which point is the line crossed away from a genuine and respectful appreciation of an actor's performances?


(And it's pure coincidence that these worries surface in my post no. 500 at KD! :D :rolleyes: )

*hugs to all the Faculty*

Congrats on Post #500, Maeg!

I do have a spark of hope on the RotK reshoots. (Yeah, I know, having hope is a bad idea, given how I felt after TTT.) Last summer, the term they used was "pickups." TTT and RotK were both supposed to be 2:40 long but Fellowship did so well that New Line allowed them to be longer. The "pickups" last summer were new scenes designed to fill in those extra 40 minutes. I also heard muttering about the final plot of TTT being nebulous until the last minute, leaving room for all manner of canon blasphemy.

This summer it's all "reshoots," implying that PJ is reshooting scenes that are probably already there. Also, I read somewhere that PJ has cut the first 25 minutes of RotK, which means the plot would have to be fairly set by now. The term that will really scare me is "finishing touches." I think UN Sam was a "finishing touch." My memory is that Sean Astin did that some of that ridiculous voiceover -- canon or no -- in Los Angeles, and PJ layered that montage in Wellington. bleah.

btw, I liked that Bill would find his way home. I know the DVD said they put it in to please the animal rights nuts, but it's actually book canon -- BookGandalf says almost the same thing.

Maeg, you bring up a good point about the ultra-fandom. But I think part of the reason is that we're all here, on common ground. I get the distinct impression that we're mostly feeding off each other. I wonder if this is like alcoholism -- the real danger sign is when you start drinking alone.

One should always hope for the best :). PJ and 'the Bosses' can be considering Oscar-oriented re-shoots as well. An older Frodo may deliver a certain phrase with more compelling gravitas.

Prim--Tolkienite Baiting is an old habit of mine :o. It's akin to the Japanese tradition of eating fugu. Deliciously suicidal :D. ---'Yonder' was a reference to the Quote Thread indeed. ('Yonder go the lights,' quoth Elfhelm, leaving Merry thoroughly confused. :D :)) ---Nice to know that I'm not the only person who has trouble deciphering my posts. Don't think it has anything to do with nationality, though :).

Yikes! Prim, Maeglian, I'm with you in your concerns. Was afraid that's what Prim meant in her original post (Sam's sappy 'UN' speach etc). Hadn't realized such a brazen connection was possible between the movie and prevailing politics (which I'm unhappy about anyway - not a fang, just a fact).
Whether or no, I like to think the retakes will have a positive effect on ROTK since the preview shots have not been very reassuring with regard to Frodo, IMO.
An older Frodo may deliver a certain phrase with more compelling gravitas. Brunhild, now there's an encouraging thought :) .

Originally posted by erendis
And there are already several Frodo/Free Will threads out there.

Here's one you might want to check out, naiad--

Fate and Predestination in Middle-earth (http://www.khazaddum.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1349)

It gets into Frodo's free will in relation to the Ring quite a bit, and could be taken in any number of directions from where the discussion is now--especially since there hasn't been any discussion in it for quite some time ;) .

---Also wanted to comment on what you said about RotK Frodo pics. I know I've said this before :rolleyes: , but I hope they stay few and early--there are enough people who don't know the story that I wouldn't want "post-Shelob" Frodo pics out there ruining it for them (and I say that as someone who had Frodo's survival spoiled for me before I read the book and am still unhappy about it :( ).

I do have a spark of hope on the RotK reshoots. (Yeah, I know, having hope is a bad idea, given how I felt after TTT.) Last summer, the term they used was "pickups." TTT and RotK were both supposed to be 2:40 long but Fellowship did so well that New Line allowed them to be longer... This summer it's all "reshoots," implying that PJ is reshooting scenes that are probably already there.
I'm going to join you on this spark of hope, erendis. I might be sorry in six months, but it may keep those six months less worrysome :rolleyes: . What I've heard talked about most regarding this summer's "reshoots" is that PJ was unhappy with many of the scenes that were shot without him on site (since they were running several crews at once, the others had "assistant" directors), and he wanted to redo a number of them. I'm sure that's not all that's happening, but it sounds as if that's a big part of it.

btw, I liked that Bill would find his way home. I know the DVD said they put it in to please the animal rights nuts, but it's actually book canon -- BookGandalf says almost the same thing.
Me, too--I hope amidst everything that has to be squeezed into RotK we get a moment of payoff on that, and see that Bill did get back safely, since it is book canon (I think Tolks liked animals, too :p ).

Maeg, you bring up a good point about the ultra-fandom. But I think part of the reason is that we're all here, on common ground. I get the distinct impression that we're mostly feeding off each other. I wonder if this is like alcoholism -- the real danger sign is when you start drinking alone.
Hmmm... interesting analogy. I rather suspect that if I didn't have "drinking companions" I wouldn't be nearly as involved as I am :p . But as far as all of us being on common ground, I think there's a reason most of us are here as opposed to some EJW "fandom" sites--we don't want to be involved in that kind of ultra-fandom, invasion of privacy, taking things too far, etc. IMHO, the atmosphere here is one in which we can indulge in a little "social drinking" without having it take over our lives.

And congratulations on your 500th post, Maeg :) :) !

Tg - Wonderful Taming of Smeagol screencaps. I've just spent the past hour or so going through them, reading your comments and saving them all to CD. I went back to The Black Gate set too. Although I had saved the actual pictures, I hadn't thought of saving the whole thing - your comments included - before. I do enjoy reading your take on things as the set progresses - your thoughts on what is going on with the characters, EW's acting, etc. Very interesting!:)

Be assured, Tg, everyone here appreciates your devotion to duty where screencapping is concerned. From my own experience with gifs, I know how much time it takes to capture all those pictures, and from what you've said, sounds like that last set must have been a marathon session! I can't wait to see your Ring Petting and Nazgul Attack caps. Will they be available soon? Hint hint.:D Thanks for all your hard work.:k

Originally quoted by Maeg:
Anyway, I must confess there are times when I seriously figure I'll go back to being a Tolkien / LotR fan only and try to forget that I know so much about the actors (escpecially one of them ) Some part of fandom *really* scares me...... and have a look at those pics decorating the house. There aren't many pics there that I can't put a background story to (like which film they're promoting, which magazine / promo shoot that was, etc.) Worries....

At which point is the line crossed away from a genuine and respectful appreciation of an actor's performances?

Mmmm. I know what you mean, Maeg. 18 months ago I would never have imagined that I would be so interested in the career of a young actor I had never heard of before. Of course, it could be something to do with Frodo himself. If Frodo were not my favourite character in LOTR, would I have singled Elijah out from the rest of the cast when I saw FOTR? I think the answer to that is 'YES.' If I had been an avid Aragorn fan, would I now be on a board discussing Viggo? I suppose the sensible answer would be 'I don't really know.' But I don't THINK so. The first time I saw 'Fellowship' I was simply bowled over by Elijah's acting, by (yes, I may as well admit it) his looks, but also by his 'presence.' His performance made a huge impact on me, and when I visited various LOTR sites on the internet and saw how young he was, and saw that he was American - NOT ENGLISH - I think that's when the 'in awe' factor set in.
Since then, having seen various interviews etc. I have come to appreciate Elijah as an honest, decent (despite the swearing) respectful young man, as well as a truly talented actor. Though I do like to know what new projects he has lined up career-wise, I'm not so interested in his love life, apart from hoping that he is happy, of course. I do admire the way he seems to retain a sense of 'normality' in a business where it would only be too easy for him to 'go off the rails.' The smoking is a bit of a worry, but it appears his mother has given Elijah a very firm grounding in his life, and it is to her credit that he conducts himself (as far as I can see) in such a mature and sensitive manner.

As for the scarier parts of 'fandom,' - well, I have never read and have no inclination to read fanfics that involve the actual person - ie Elijah himself. I find the idea of that quite appalling and invasive of the subject's privacy. Fanfics on a 'Frodo' theme I find more acceptable, especially if they're well-written - though I have read only a very few of these.

I don't think I have answered your question at all, Maeg. I suppose younger 'fans' tend to have more of an obsessive handle on pop/movie stars - covering walls with pictures, etc. We've all done it at some stage in our early teenage years, I suppose. Though I can't remember having the walls of my bedroom covered with anything but wallpaper - I do recall having a huge poster of Paul Newman up at one time - can't for the life of me think what brought that on! Could it possibly have been the lovely blue eyes?:rolleyes: Nowadays, my Elijah pics are confined to my computer - that way I can drooo... er, I mean, study the camera angles, eye-brow and nostril acting, micro-expressions etc, without anyone KNOWING that I AM actually obsessed. No I'm not! Am I?:confused: Have I crossed the line? Oh my goodness - I hope not! I'm not sure anymore.

It's all your fault, Maeg - you started me off! I'M worried now!!!:D :D

BTW- CONGRATULATIONS MAEG ON YOUR 500TH KD POST!

Stormy - how nice to see you here. Haven't seen you in The Faculty for ages.

ainon - Hi. :) Love those behind-the-scenes screencaps. Thanks.

Whiteling - I have fond memories of a boat-trip on The Rhine in my younger travelling days. What a beautiful place!

Prim - I share your concerns re ROTK too, for the very same reasons you referred to in your post. Why oh why can't studio bosses just let PJ get on with it? Even PJ - genius that he is - is apt to omit our most beloved scenes from the book and insert an invented action sequence instead.

Elve. I agree with everyone who's mentioned Mikey Carver. Elijah totally embodies that character. Amazing performance. I also get completely immersed in Frodo, so I don't consciously think, 'That's Elijah Wood.' Also Stu from 'The War.' Whether this has something to do with the fact that Elijah does LOOK quite different in this one - shorter hairstyle and all- I think he uses body language a lot here. He IS Stu, like he IS Mikey, and he IS Frodo. With his younger roles, while I know it's Elijah Wood, it isn't THE Elijah most of us were first introduced to in FOTR, which is where a lot of us discovered him. Except Tg, who has known him forever.:)

Sorry to have rambled on for so long. I'll shut up now.
Bye.

Originally posted by tgshaw
---but if Sam hadn't frightened off poor liddle Smegs in the first place by yelling "I don't believe you!" at him, he wouldn't have had to bring him to heel :( .

Well, Smeagol's alter-ego had tried to kill Sam and Master Frodo just the night before, so Sam's pretty justified in his harshness at that point, I think. Not to mention Sam having to deal with the very idea that this wretched creature exists. Besides, that was Gollum there, with his eyes straying to the Ring around Frodo's neck, and Sam's sharp enough to read conniving mischief when he sees it - Gollum's brazen impunity must be infuriating! Thanks for the 4 page Taming caps with bonus cloak action. :cool: I'll add more fluttering eyelid action to Blossom's hints too. :k And it's very good to know that crebain producers do get some things right. ;)


Happy 500th post, Maeg! :k My infatuation *cough* with Elijah was strong and immediate and very definitely related to how much of Frodo he is to me. I will always say that it was a truly magical spell, to come out of the theatre that first time after FotR, burning with the need to want to watch it again right away, and to find out as much as possible about the person who'd breathed life into my Frodo. And I'll never forget the delight and relief, when watching Elijah's other works, to discover that he was and is a genuine talent and not just some flash in the pan.

But ... was my fan-ish reaction unique only for Elijah? Well, no. It was certainly more intense that any I've had for other actors because Frodo meant so much to me, and because Elijah's talent as a child actor proved to be as worthy of interest as Frodo is himself. But if I'd found out that Elijah were a crappy kid actor, or if his childhood flicks all annoyed me to bits, I wouldn't have found my way here. Once I got here and made friends with all of you, I got the unique opportunity to indulge in international friendships. So that's why I'm here. If it were just about fandom, I've never minded drooling alone. ;) :D

I doubt I'm actually answering any questions you're having Maeg, just that in my case I've always moved from one little obsession to the next - some about actors, some just about characters (I swoon over Viggo's Aragorn, but I don't look out for Viggo's other roles, for example). Some of my obsessions were bigger than others and some, like LOTR, last for as long as I can remember. I think I would know when I have crossed the line ... and as long I keep telling myself that I know I'll be just fine. :o :D


Oh, I love the Billy line - to me it's so Sam, even if it was added only to assure the audience Billy might live (and even if I do end up giggling each time I hear PJ & co pondering about Billy getting snapped up and eaten up). I do wonder actually what I would have thought of Sam's UN speech if it hadn't been spoiled for me in very negative terms prior to my watching the movie; I never actually minded it once I found out for myself what Sam was saying. My early concerns about it was how Sean Astin delivered it, but of course after that it was no fun to not make fun of the speech. :p

Hello!

First I want to join Blossom's thank-you to tg for the impressive pics of Smeagol's taming. Oh dear, what a rock-hard job! (I mean doing the screencaps not the taming :D ! Or is it?)

Originally posted by BLOSSOM

Of course, it could be something to do with Frodo himself. If Frodo were not my favourite character in LOTR, would I have singled Elijah out from the rest of the cast when I saw FOTR?


For my part my fandom has very much to do with 'Frodo' himself. When I knew his character for the first time I had the strong feeling that my own mental condition was not that far away from poor Frodo when he discovers what it is meant to be a ringbearer. Get me right, I neither have to save the world nor to face Sauron :eek: :eek: :eek: :D but recently I've had to make really difficult decisions and felt totally alone and left...:( so to see similar feelings on the screen, so beautifully expressed by a very gifted actor and interwoven with a great story -- what else to say?
But frankly, I'm not sure, what impressed me more - the character or the extremely likeable young man who plays him :) .


(Btw, hoping my English is to some extent understandable for you...:o)


Greetings! :)

"The Taming of Smeagol" screencaps are extremely interesting. Obsessed fans ;) may squeak over EJW's awesome ability to go through six facial expression during a single nod but I'm all set for sober criticism. Squeeeee! Oops, sorry :). IMVHO, Frodo should have said 'Sam' in a low voice and put a hand on Sam's shoulder. That's proper Frolijah intensity for you. In other words, PJ needs a photo of EJW wearing a "Gregory Peck was never hysterical" T-shirt :D.

Maeglian--Gunnar may have been a rascal ;) but I've always felt sorry for him in his last predicament. So I shall not deliver the coup de grace to Ed Burns. I've actually managed to come to terms with AW by watching it with the sound turned off, as if it were a mute film. This primitive trick works wonders. Even the restless walking becomes a legitimate expression for Francis' troubled conscience.

Such neat stuff to comment on today. First, tg, I LOVE your Taming series! Really enjoy your comments on each part. Yes, not quite sure what Sam is doing there on page 1. I can see PJ amping up the "tension," as he likes to put it, but what is Sam _thinking?_

This is the wrong thread for this, but good-golly Miss Molly is that little Elijah Wood just as cute as a button or what? Yes, yes, I know he's the "Master" and Gollum is worshipping at his feet (*no ideas here, will not share ideas*), but he's just so darned cute! Until we move into the "Deciding" scene, then he's just beautiful. Okay, okay, so, uh, *thinking quickly* I will artfully tie this back into CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT. Yes I will. *The crowd is completely fooled -- What an amazing escape!*

See (picture Mariole replacing her Faculty hat) how much Elijah Wood, the respected actor, moves his character along from the first film. Compare:

Innocent happiness ... vs world-weary grief

http://home.ricochet.com/mdes/limages/inno.jpg


Naive fright ... vs grim resolve

http://home.ricochet.com/mdes/limages/res.jpg


Trusting wonder ... vs canny manipulation

http://home.ricochet.com/mdes/limages/wonder.jpg


Our poor little Frodo has come a long way, and it's breaking my heart!

I'm thinking positive thoughts for the reshoots. Yes, they could goof it up, but I like to think that PJ is feeling sincere regret for some of the choices he made in TTT (I really think he does pay attention to us yammering fans). My Pollyanna view is that he will make ROTK as true to the book as possible, filled with heart-breaking Tolkien-true emotional devastation. I also recall PJ saying that he was disappointed with some of the quality of the original ROTK film, which was completed in a horrible rush, so "reshoot" may be in fact what he's doing, vs. reinventing Tolkien to be (shudder) topically relevant. I'm afraid efforts like the UN speech will date this film, and I want it to be a classic that can be enjoyed for many years.

Maeg, I only looked at one of the Elijah house shrine pictures, so I didn't get the full horrific effect. I think that obsessive behavior is extremely common among us human beings, if all the traffic to such geeky internet sites as LOTR is any guide! I go on different kicks and have thoroughly researched such topics as the Beatles, Monty Python, and World War II. I don't think it does any harm unless you have trouble separating your current passion from "real" life. Or perhaps I should say, if the passion runs you instead of you merely pursuing and enjoying it. One of my friends said she doesn't worry about my LOTR passion because "You know it's a book." There is a sad woman on one of the other message groups I visit who is actually in therapy because she's obsessed with EW (or Frodo, can't really distinguish between the two). She realizes she has this addiction, and fortunately is supported by family and friends. I guess everyone has to decide for themselves what constitutes harmful obsession vs. passionate though innocent fun (any rabid fan of anything can fall into this category, be it chess or rock-climbing or whatever).

Later:
Whew, so many posts since I started mucking about with the caps above. I am whole-heartedly supporting the "no pics beyond the lair" marketing strategy of New Line. This is so that I can selfishly stay in denial about how much of Frodo and Sam will be in the third movie as long as possible. That said, this time I DO plan to be in line for the midnight showing. I am preparing to be pleased.

Blossom, I love your account of how Elijah and Frodo drew you in. I will say, that prior to these movies, I was a hardcore Aragorn fan. I'm still a passionate fan of Book!Aragorn. When FOTR came out, though, PJ's Aragorn wasn't my Aragorn. He was ... well, I wasn't sure what he was, except I knew that I liked Sean Bean's Boromir better. That said, I went out and rented all the Viggo Mortensen movies I could find. There were quite a few, even though many of his roles were small. And then I was ... done. Just, ended. Moved on. But that Frodo guy ...

Okay, I was seduced by the eyes, I will admit. When I first saw Elijah on the screen, my tiny little pointed brain squeaked, "Say, WHAT?!? What the heck is this kid doing playing Frodo? I'm supposed to believe that he's fifty?!?! Like, I am so sure!" That lasted until, I believe, Bilbo's farewell speech. By the time he packed for Bree I was in love with him. Oddly, it was Elijah's portrayal of Frodo that had me become more appreciative of Book!Frodo, for which I'm very grateful. So for me, the first viewing of LOTR was for Aragorn, the second was for the elf, and all the other nine-thousand seven-hundred and eight viewings have been for that weirdly compelling can't-quite-pin-down-just-what-it-is young actor who just ... boggles me, time and again.

from Whiteling
frankly, I'm not sure, what impressed me more - the character or the extremely likeable young man who plays him
What she said. (Whiteling, your English is just fine, and your sentiment very well expressed.)

(((Faculty))) I'm so glad I have you to socially drink with. It was very lonely before, mulling wine (or just plain whining) all on my own.

mariol3b3 - your comparison photos break my heart too. Nice post, I agree with your other comments as well. And, re: tg's series - Until we move into the "Deciding" scene, then he's just beautiful. You said it!

To reiterate Whiteling's words - For my part my fandom has very much to do with 'Frodo' himself.
Tgshaw - the taming series is most interesting. Elijah's comment on and acting of Frodo's loosing his innocence as he decides to use Gollum really drew me up short. In all my readings and re-readings (and 4 TTT viewings), I'd never thought of that! It really adds to the tragedy - as depicted in both book and movie.
Re: Sam getting physical on Frodo, I actually think that's essential to the scene's effectiveness (and to the characters involved) in the movie. The scene would hardly be convincing if Sam makes a dive for Gollum in anger, but turns to Fro and says 'Excuse me Mr. Frodo, did I bump you? :D After all, the movie must show us what Tolkien (Frodo really) only referred to rather objectively in the book. In fact, the rough behavior might even be plausible in the book, IMO, as it would be like Fro to play down any attack on his person (as he may well have done with the Boromir incident, for example).

Thanks for the link to the ME Fate&Will thread. Hope to post something there soon, although my thoughts focus on Frodo's will rather than Ring-will (which I believe remained distinct - until the last).

Love the way your analyses help explain the strong reaction I have to these Frolijah moments - it proves that there's logic in there somewhere amid the morass of emotion.

I agree with the view that the fewer ROTK leaks out there, especially post-lair, the better.

{{{Faculty}}} wonderful posts - must return and read them again when have more time.

Prim--Tolkienite Baiting is an old habit of mine . It's akin to the Japanese tradition of eating fugu. Deliciously suicidal .

:eek: :eek: :D

Aha! I knew it! An agent provocateur is in our midst. And an honest one to boot!!! :p :) .And New Zealand has such a plentiful supply of trout.... As a die hard Tolkeinite, prepared to defend the book if not always the film, but only when she feels like it, Prim wanders off to gird her loins with er....fish?

. An older Frodo may deliver a certain phrase with more compelling gravitas.

Ok, I've pondered this statement from Brunhild deeply for a good three seconds and still have no idea what this line could be....? Help anyone ???

Bill the Pony and his Fans: rest assured dear colleagues :), I too, would have foamed at the mouth should Mr Jackson have killed Bill off in a (spectacularly) bloody manner. I just don't like the line that's all. How does Aragorn know Bill will be all right??? Does he have the gift of foresight????:mad: No. It's a silly statement. The line should have been Gandalf's.

Once I got here and made friends with all of you, I got the unique opportunity to indulge in international friendships. So that's why I'm here. If it were just about fandom, I've never minded drooling alone.

LOL. (Hands Ainon a tissue discreetly...)

It's all your fault, Maeg - you started me off! I'M worried now!!!

Don't panic Blossom. We're not obssessives, we just have deep enthusiasms!!! Passionate interests! A high level of focus!

I think Maeglian the fact you're pondering this issue at all (and I was twiddling around the same subject a while back and I'll just paraphrase the responses )is a sign that you have still got your feet on the ground. There are indeed a lot of strange people out there: but they are everywhere, not just in fandom. Some personality types seem to lose their identity in anything: guns, football, war games, golf, collecting....I don't think its harmful until it impacts directly and continuously on their ordinary life (like peole who organise their social lives around a tv programme). My Tolk fandom "fills in the gaps" of my busy real life. Some weeks the gaps are bigger that's all...:D

So many thought-provoking posts since I was here earlier--I'm sure I'll be commenting on them for awhile. Mariol--wonderful comparisons of pre-quest Frodo with the "Taming" pics. Besides the acting (boggles my mind that Elijah often wasn't shooting these things in sequence, but had to jump from a FotR Frodo to a RotK Frodo to another place in the character development and play it correctly for where Frodo would be emotionally at that time), the comparison really shows the "brownness" of the Taming scene. So many of the scenes are shot with a specific "coloring"--from lighting filters or whatever tricks they use--but it's so much a part of the scene that it's not that noticeable until it's put next to a shot from another scene. It really adds to the mood (of course, Frodo's also a lot more grimy in the later scene ;) , but that doesn't explain all of the brown there).

Thanks for all the kind remarks on the screencaps. The process wouldn't be too difficult if I could just slap a few hundred caps up there for each scene :rolleyes: --time-consuming :p , but not difficult. The hard part's deciding which ones to use! I do enjoy the comments on the comments--for example, I actually couldn't understand why that one whispered line of Gollum's would set Sam off the way it did, but ainon's idea about Sam seeing Gollum looking at the Ring sounds logical.

What I really like are the little surprises that pop up in the caps that weren't obvious when watching the movie. In fact, that's one of the things that keeps me interested in Elijah's acting. I've sometimes thought, "Oh, you're just prejudiced. You could find these same kinds of things in other actors' work if you made screencaps of them." But I don't think that's true. It's those little subtleties that fascinate me.

And since I can do direct linking now, it's easier to share a little discovery here in the thread instead of having to wait until the whole batch is ready to publish. These are from the "wraiths on wings" scene, and I do believe it's possible to see Frodo's "lights go out" before he moves to put on the Ring. Making it more obvious--as has been said about the Osgiliath scene--that it's not Frodo who's doing it. It's as if the Ring has to totally "knock him out" before It can get him to do what It wants.

I've only posted one each of "before" and "after" pics, because the rest are really pretty consistent with these. In the first pic, Frodo's horribly frightened, but he's "with it." There's life in his eyes and he has what can be recognized as a facial expression. Then there's the moment the wraith flies overhead and Sam ducks down (two frames of that). Immediately after that, when we get back into the same view as before-- :eek: --just looking at the still, I'm tempted to say (again), "That's one dead hobbit!" And I will say (again) :p that IMVHO, nobody can act nothingness like Elijah! Eyes are looking at nothing. The rest of his face (mouth, etc.) is just there, slack, not appearing to use any muscles. His head is lolling over to one side. Interesting, too, that this happens just as the wraith is flying overhead, which would make perfect logic within the story and also gets our attention away from his face for an instant. Maybe I'm reading more into this than is actually there, but IMHO it's a pretty amazing transformation:

http://home.earthlink.net/~screencaps/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/cap8988-85.jpg

http://home.earthlink.net/~screencaps/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/cap8989-85.jpg

http://home.earthlink.net/~screencaps/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/cap8990-85.jpg

http://home.earthlink.net/~screencaps/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/cap8991-85.jpg

Wanted to say something on the "fandom" topic, but will have to do that some other time :) .

Prim, i don't think Burnhild meant that Elijah would deliver any specific line better now that he's older; I think it means any line could be delivered with more gravitas. As for Elijah jumping from Film 3 Fro to Film 1 Fro, does that matter anymore? If PJ is truly doing "reshoots" and not "pickups", then the Original Film 3 Frodo would be replaced with Reshoot Film 3 Frodo, thus effectively shooting in sequence. I'm guessing this is a good thing. Elijah has said repeatedly that he has no trouble finding his Frodo, even if months have passed between filming sessions, so there won't be discontinuity in acting. And Elijah is older, and looks more tired. Elijah now may be closer to RotK Frodo than he was in 2000.

And now, with no Oscar schmooze, no preview, and no first trailer :mad:, PJ seems to have to real time to spend on them. The figure I heard is that the reshoots are five months. Five months! They could start from scratch and reshoot all of RotK in five months if they wanted too. I think I read somewhere that the actors are going separately too -- definitely Billy/Dom for a few weeks, Elijah/Sean/Andy later, I think Hugo Weaving went at a different time, and I have a vague memory of a rumor of Dom and Miranda Otto arriving to reshoot the demise of the you-know-what! Tgshaw is right that PJ wants to really direct his actors, instead of directing someone else how to direct the actors. (The same interview stated that the only satisfactory original direction was from Barrie Osborne, Fran, or PJ himself.)

Now, New Line knows they don't have to spend the money on this. RotK is $350M in the bank even with the material they have. I have to agree with what Brunhild is saying, which echoes what the people at Council of Elrond said months ago: Somebody's going for Oscars this time. Not a backlog Oscar, not a pity Oscar, not a disputed Oscar; a real Oscar. Now, let's just hope that they can earn an Oscar just by being a good movie, without feeling the need to push the cheap emotional and propaganda buttons, i.e. "I am Sam Gump's Left Foot that Plays the Piano During These Challenging Times" etc. :rolleyes:

Back to Lijah: on all those interviews and specials, I noticed that Elijah's voice lets out an occasional squeak. It sounds for all the world like his voice is changing again slightly, maybe settling into a final pitch. Has anyone else heard this? I don't know much about male puberty, but don't some men reach the age of 26 before fully maturing? (I think I heard this in a pro-basketball context..) Elijah certainly seems to be a late bloomer. His face is different than it was two years ago, and that facial hair only started sprouting with any consistency only after he turned 21. And mentally comparing some of the bare-chested Try 17 screencaps to the *ahem* bed-in-Rivendell scene -- oh gosh, how to put -- his chest seems a little older, or more defined.. Gah. Now I'm in the same boat with Maeg. I don't think I even want to SEE the research for THIS one...

My gosh, I hope this post makes it onto page 135. This has GOT to be one of the most insightful, thoughtful, funny, challenging, and outright wonderful pages of posts I have ever encountered! It will take me some time to articulate responses to everything, but may I say THANK YOU to everyone?

http://www.click-smilies.de/sammlung/party/party-smiley-017.gifCongratulations on achieving 500 posts Maeglian! http://www.click-smilies.de/sammlung/party/party-smiley-018.gif

It’s an interesting, question – where is the line between appropriate and not appropriate interest?

After over a year of being part of a ‘fandom’, it's a good time to stop and think about how I got here, and why I keep visiting (in an irregularly regular kind of way).

I have wondered if this would all have just gone away if I’d never typed ‘lord of the rings’ into Google last January. If I’d never found the first incarnation of the Faculty and then stuck with it through site moves, my own technical incompetence, and various real life dramas which overshadowed things for a while.

I don’t think so. The films reignited a love for the story, and for the character of Frodo. I didn’t put posters of movie stars up when I was an impressionable teenager. I had maps of Middle-earth, (and a beautiful one of Bilbo’s Last Song, which I still have). It’s a pretty strong interest, when all is said and done, which has travelled with me as I’ve grown up.

From seeing the films came a genuine interest in the actor that played Frodo – in the way he practices his craft, rather than in ‘him’.

I would still be very interested, just lonelier. It’s been wonderful to find a group of people who share the interest, and who also don’t want to cross any lines.

I don’t see Elijah Wood when I watch Lord of the Rings. I go in to watch the films intending remember the significance of every eyebrow twitch, as has been analysed and counter-analysed. But I still get lost in the magic of the performance, and the magic of the film as a whole.

It’s not the same when I see Elijah Wood in other films. But then and again, I haven’t seen all that many. (Does Flipper count?) I haven’t seen Bumblebee or Ash Wednesday. Or Oliver Twist. Or Black and White. I have seen the Ice Storm, and was bowled over by it. That is a great movie! It’s true, Mikey is a complete character, an achingly isolated one. I’m just don’t have the emotional investment in these stories, so I’m better able to sit back and watch how things are done.

I did catch ‘Child in the Night’ late the other night on TV. It was a fairly average movie (very late 80s), but I thought Elijah did well in it. I could see shades of the slightly older Huck Finn mischievousness there, as well as some credible depictions of fear and vulnerability.

Mariol3b3, thank you for your picture sequence, showing Frodo’s journey to weariness and despair. I’ve been doing something similar – in a folder on my computer I have head and shoulders shots of Frodo from the party through to the scenes in Osgiliath. Tracking the growing madness. I’d intended to put them together in a sequence too, to help illustrate the changes that take place over the film version of the story. But yours is better, more compact, to see at a glance.

No, I’m not obsessed :p Really. (Perhaps a closet angst maven?? :rolleyes: )

Tg, thank you for your screen caps too. They are a wonderful resource, which I dip into frequently. :D I second Blossom’s comment: your devotion to duty is highly appreciated!

There is a question I would like to put to the Faculty. It’s something that has bothered me a little on the last few viewings of TTT, and it’s in the same vein as ‘is Sam pushing Frodo away?’ In Ithilien, just as the Oliphaunts appear Sam grasps Frodo’s arm. It seems to me that Frodo kind of shoves Sam’s hand away. Perhaps Sam was grabbing too tightly and it hurt? The facial expressions are perfect for the scene (smiling, almost shining with wonder), but that little movement I found a bit jarring. Has anyone else seen that, or am I over-reading it?


And I agree with everything erendis said. Take your time PJ. Get it right.

naiad said:

Love the way your analyses help explain the strong reaction I have to these Frolijah moments - it proves that there's logic in there somewhere amid the morass of emotion.


aint that the truth, though? tg, those screencaps help me to "see" the techniques, the emotional trajectories used by Elijah Wood to bewitch me. Your comments are just awesome.

estella rose said:

I have wondered if this would all have just gone away if I’d never typed ‘lord of the rings’ into Google last January. If I’d never found the first incarnation of the Faculty and then stuck with it through site moves, my own technical incompetence, and various real life dramas which overshadowed things for a while.


Boy can I relate to *that*! When I first saw FoTR, I had no idea that communities like this one existed. But I had already seen the film four times before venturing into Imladris, then CoE, then here. But I sure am glad I found you all! :k

Do I worry about being so into this fandom? My husband thinks I've cracked! He likens my interest in LoTR to a cult! :eek: I tell him its just an "enthusiasm." But I have gained so much from all facets of this fandom: a reawakened love of the books, an enriching fascination with Peter Jackson's movies of the books, an intellectually stimulating and just plain fun group of online buddies, lots of new films to see, books to read, music to listen to, and an ongoing interest in a young actor from whom I expect great things in future. What's not to like? :)

So Maeg: my advice is to relax and enjoy this fandom. ;) Think of all the new talents you are discovering in yourself: limericks, lyrics, and now vignettes! Very :cool: Happy 500 posts!

Originally posted by Maeglian
I've found myself worrying a little over what strange stuff they may be filming to placate New Line or to express some sentiment deemed proper to the times, altough not in line with Tolkien's way of writing or character canon. :( I wish they could just keep and use those first fresh scenes that were filmed, 4 years ago.


I'm de-lurking again sputtering!

If those New Line execs can't work out that after two incredibly successful movies, heaps of award nominations, and awards from us, the viewing public, that they don't need to tamper with the film, they should be ..fired (well, that's probably more pc than what I really thought, but you get the idea ;) ;) ) :mad:

I saw TTT five times and each time the UN speech annoyed me more...it is so out of tune with the rest of the movie. EW and SA and the rest did such a wonderful job, with a fantastic script that that little soliloquy was not necessary at all. Think of the other scenes that could have been inserted in the film that that soliloquy took up!! GRrrr

I shall now stop sputtering and read the rest of the posts

{{faculty}}

viola

edit: just re-viewed FOTR for the first time in months...boy, its amazing what you see when its (almost) fresh!!! Stunned anew :D

Hi Viola! Nice to see you again!

(((Peaceweaver))) - thank you... although who knows what I might do next? :eek:

(((Faculty))) :) Thank you all for your considered and thoughtful response to my sudden touch of fandom worry. I rather like the idea of this being equal to going out and drinking a glass of good wine with friends (or drinking a cup of Milo? :) ). Certainly, the companionship and kindness and knowledge and fun and shared interests and appreciation that is to be found here is a significant reason why I can't stop posting. Hugs to you all! :k

As for the *main* reason I keep on gabbing away, - well, I think Mariole's picture comparisons of FotR and TTT Frodo say it all. How is it possible *not* to be stunned by someone who acts so fantastically and who is so beautiful..... and who plays my favourite LotR character Frodo to boot? Nope, not possible to stay aloof. :cool:

Still, I am still a bit surprised. Like Blossom, I've never before bothered with moviestars or pop stars at all, even in my early teens. It was always the good story, the challenging topic and message, that got me hooked before. The actors were just *there*..... EJW changed that.


From Erendis
Somebody's going for Oscars this time. Not a backlog Oscar, not a pity Oscar, not a disputed Oscar; a real Oscar. All in all I think this is good. A real oscar means more focus on emotions and character development, as opposed to just big-time action and SFX scenes. :) Emotional scenes; - close-ups conveying fear, grief, anger, despair, resignation...... Woo-hoo!

OTOH, I'm still worrying about the politically correct pick-up scene possibility. Erendis, I think the one you posted somewhere else (at CoE?), the pc Grey Havens, really illustrated those fears. The one where Frodo asks Arwen "Why were we fighting, queen Evenstar?" and gets a long speech in reply, explaining "what has been going on here and what it all meant and why it was right for us to sacrifice so much" ... If something like that's in the film: :mad: :mad: !!!

But reshoots, pickups, and "finishing touches" all have to be included in what they're doing down in NZ. I can understand it if they're re-shooting scenes where the direction wasn't satisfactory. But in addition, the RotK they were filming way back when had Arwen at Helm's Deep, but did not have Frodo fighting and nearly killing Sam at Osgiliath. There *must* be various story or dialogue changes required because of the pick-up changes made last year to TTT.

From Erendis
And mentally comparing some of the bare-chested Try 17 screencaps to the *ahem* bed-in-Rivendell scene -- oh gosh, how to put -- his chest seems a little older, or more defined.. Gah. Now I'm in the same boat with Maeg. I don't think I even want to SEE the research for THIS one.... I haven't noticed the "squeak" you mention - but as for analysing scenes and acting in Try17..... This is the group of peole who didn't shirk from careful analysis of nostril acting, after all....... So someone here certainly *should* manage chest acting analysis just like a breeze! All the while keeping completely calm and objective, not shirking from any research, however challenging or specialized it might seem. :D :o Or maybe not. :rolleyes:


Tg, thank you again for the insightful, informative, illustrated scene and acting analysis! :)

Originally posted by Maeglian
OTOH, I'm still worrying about the politically correct pick-up scene possibility. Erendis, I think the one you posted somewhere else (at CoE?), the pc Grey Havens, really illustrated those fears. The one where Frodo asks Arwen "Why were we fighting, queen Evenstar?" and gets a long speech in reply, explaining "what has been going on here and what it all meant and why it was right for us to sacrifice so much" ...
:eek: :eek: :eek:

Mel

I've been reading the posts about fandom the last day or so and have been trying to figure out what to say :confused: . Finding the online communities was wonderful--mostly to have people to talk Tolkien with. But we were all in a joint angst mode, too, which made the worry over the movies a little easier to bear. (I remember the evening of December 18, 2001, at Imladris, where it seemed like New Year's Eve watching the "Okay, I'm leaving for the midnight showing now" posts move around the globe, until it was time to post my own. There was excitement and hope, but also still some fears and worries about "our book".)

After reading the other posts, I've been wondering about my own "what if" scenario: if all LotR readers had been happy about Elijah's casting, would I ever have watched him in more than Avalon, Huck Finn (both of which I'd already seen) and the LotR movies? It was the "kill me now" folks who sent me in search of more evidence of his acting talent. Without the negativity, I would have said my own, "Yeah, I'm really glad he got the part," and might have stopped there--at least until after FotR was released, when there were suddenly a lot more people to share my admiration with :) . I think at that point I would have been drawn into Elijah "fandom" just from the enjoyment of being able to do that sharing--even if I hadn't gotten involved before FotR. I would certainly have my own private admiration of him, but I'm sure wouldn't have discovered a lot about his acting that I've learned through sharing with others.

It's nice to know some things about him, but I'm not really interested in his personal life. I think the reason I most want to keep updated on his professional life is that IMHO he could be the best actor there's ever been and I don't want to miss it! I don't even care if he does little "art-house" movies for the rest of his life, if they give him the challenges and knowledge he needs to keep growing--and I get to see them :p .

Not really sure how to say this, but I think Elijah's acting is one of the aspects of the LotR movies that have "stayed true to the spirit of the book." Because his acting is layered and can be looked at from different angles--there are those complex moments where I might see certain emotions one day, and then notice different nuances the next day. Which is exactly how the book has always affected me. When I discover the little "gems" in the screencaps about, say, Frodo's determination, sometimes a little voice in my head says, "Yeah, but look how hard you had to work to see them--the average moviegoer who watches the movie once isn't going to notice that." Which, IMVHO, is exactly what happens with the book. People can read it once as a great story, or they can get hooked for whatever reason into looking at it more carefully and discovering some of the "gems" Tolkien left partly buried so we could dig them out. I think I might even say that if Tolkien's a "geek's author" then Elijah is a "geek's actor"--both of them make it worthwhile to be a geek :p , because of how much is there to be found by looking a little deeper and thinking about it a little more. I really don't think there are many actors you could even have a thread like this about.

Wow, such great posts!

I must say, I envy those of you who read the books (some many many times) before you saw the movies.
(I would have loved to have been around for the “kill me now” days. I know EW’s referred to those days as such and I wonder if he’s aware of tg’s campaign).

I wonder if the speed of development of *Frolijah-enthralldom* is affected by that (whether or not you’ve read the book first). After umpteen viewings of FOTR, it amazes me that I was *not* immediately enthralled. My husband was so hyped about the first movie coming out (he'd read the books several times and re-read them when he heard they were making the movies) so I was somewhat caught up in it but my memories of the first viewing are:
1.) "that Galadriel thing was overdone!" (I've since made detente with it),
2.) “Lurtz pulling Aragorn's knife into him and growling in his face is the scariest thing I've ever seen!” and
3.) “it’s over already?!”.
I actually only saw it three times in the theater. The EE DVD filled in some gaps for me (I couldn't believe they'd cut the Concerning Hobbits, until I'd seen it 20 times or so, now I skip it). The TR "he's been a bit odd...all right keep your secrets" seems awfully chopped to me. My Council of Elrond vote is for the EE one.

But my *Elijah epiphany* (TM?) moment was the first time I saw the Osgiliath scene. I didn't understand it, my husband harumphed about it but I couldn't (and still can't) completely wrap my mind around all the layers. (I'm looking forward to the screencaps!)
That’s not to say that nothing else impressed me, but I’d never before been so interested in anyone’s acting as to study it. I was interested in the FOTR DVD before TTT but didn’t start to compulsively watch it until afterwards. That may have been after I read the books for the first time.
Then I went from the LOTR official site to EW filmographies and frodoandsam (LOVE it). I proceeded to rent everything EW I could find (only missing Child in the Night, Witness, and the ever-elusive Day-o, well then there’s Homicide ...oh well…).
At some point I did searches to find what others had written about the Os scene.

Maybe one day I’ll go, “Pah, Elijah Wood, got him all figured out!” and I’ll quit. But it hasn’t happened yet.

All that said, I don’t like to apply the term Elijah Wood fan to me. I guess it’s because fan is short for fanatic. I enjoy reading interviews but have little interest in his private life. (I do like his movie recommendations, I guess I consider him a bit of an expert. Run, Lola, Run was great!)

Frolijah-fan seems more applicable to me. If he does a role I like better and think he’s better at in the future, I may re-evaluate that. Yes the Frodo/Elijah mix is mystical!

Mariol-thanks for the great photo comparisons! It reminds me of a time Elijah was asked about the difficulty in filming non-sequentially and how to keep track of where Frodo was at that time. IIRC his answer was a sort of off the cuff “well, that’s my job”. Anybody recognize the interview?

Regarding spoilers—Do those of you who looked at lots of FoTR and TTT spoilers regret it or not?

I felt for tg the first time I read how her first Frodo "dying" reading was spoiled. One day, before I read it, I was looking at Robert Foster’s Guide to Middle-Earth and looked at the beginning of the Frodo section and it had birth date and *no* death date. Arrgh!

Erendis-LOL at the Sam Gump’s line!

Sam’s speech. I agree with someone, sorry no time to find, who previously said that it pulls you right out of Middle-earth. The first time I didn’t hate it but it definitely made me go, “oh, movie, right, big ending, yeah”. I also wondered why Sam wasn’t afraid to have his back turned on *so-recently-not-Frodo* for so long. The one part I did like was that “how could it ever go back”. A Tolkien theme of no simplistic destruction-of-all-evil and preservation-of-all-good? I have heard that a lot of the lines were Tolkien's.
Too bad PJ felt necessary to pack them so tightly.

Well, if you don’t mind views of a newbie (I hate that word), there it is.

Tg-
I think I might even say that if Tolkien's a "geek's author" then Elijah is a "geek's actor"--both of them make it worthwhile to be a geek , because of how much is there to be found by looking a little deeper and thinking about it a little more. I really don't think there are many actors you could even have a thread like this about.

Yes Tg...that's it! I don't think there ARE any other discussions like this about anybody! I haven't Googled for them but this HAS to be a rarity!

I think Elijah is a true 'thinking woman's' actor. There is SO much there to be fascinated about.

The fandom idea stopped bothering me a long time ago because I HAVE been a fan of others who effected me deeply but Elijah is unlike anyone I've ever been effected by before.

I, too, was relatively unaware of him, apart from knowing his name, before FOTR. And I was a LOTR fan for decades before the film was finally made. I was watching TORN to see what was going on in the filming from the get go. But it was the film in it's entirety that interested me and in how well they would bring Tolkien's gorgeous world to life. Frodo was my favorite character but I was concerned about other aspects of the story as well.

THEN I saw the first official FOTR poster! With Elijah as Frodo holding the Ring and looking SO FRODO! And SO something more. The emotion in his face on just that one poster reached and grabbed me and I knew something great was coming - the movie of course, but also the first inklings of the Frolijah phenomenon.

Dec. 19! Saw it the first time. Too bowled over by the whole experience to take it all in. But most impressed by Elijah. Second viewing....Elijah WAS the movie. Other actors might have been an interesting Frodo but Elijah took Frodo to another level altogether. He is the heart of the entire three films.( I have few fears for ROTK... He is going to soar!) And his almost inate way of conveying emotions with the subtle changes on his face is unlike any other actor I can think of. Yes, he's beautiful but there are lots of great looking actors out there and I couldn't care less about most of them. But with Elijah it's what's behind the beauty that shines through and is most important. There's a mind there, and intelligence and a heart that is really different and superior to any young actor around and many of the old ones too.

My poor Aged Mom, who loves the films, but is not a total fanatic like me was wondering with that Motherly worry that they never lose no matter how old we get, about Elijah and Frodo being such a huge obsession with me. (BTW I DO have other interests in life!) I mean she knows about all the time I spend here and all the fanfic I write...I make her read it..... and the whole Lij obsession in general. So I told her I never get a crush and/or interest in anyone who doesn't deserve it.

And at that moment I thought of the idea that Elijah is a thinking woman's actor. I am interested in him on so many levels much centered on what he will do next and watching what he's done in the past. I do have some(OK a lot of) interest in him as a person but I can't stand the types of fans who invade a celebrities life and spy on everything they do. And I feel a genuine respect for Elijah because of his uniqueness, personality and talent.

Pre- FOTR the very idea of caring this much about such a young man was the furthest thing from my mind. But Elijah is not like anyone else out there and I wasn't prepared for him.

And what's nicest is that if he ever reads this he'll just blush and say.. "Oh no, no,no... Stop it!" If he knew how special he is he wouldn't be the same.

Some day I hope he is truly recognized for what he has accomplished with Frodo and for what he does in the future.

Maegliean said - How is it possible *not* to be stunned by someone who acts so fantastically and who is so beautiful..... and who plays my favourite LotR character Frodo to boot? Nope, not possible to stay aloof. Absolutely as you say! And as far as fandom goes, never mind the epithet, such discussions as these not only don't threaten RL, they inspire our roles in it, IMVHO at least.

Tg, Hobmom, this needs an encore - I think I might even say that if Tolkien's a "geek's author" then Elijah is a "geek's actor"--both of them make it worthwhile to be a geek , because of how much is there to be found by looking a little deeper and thinking about it a little more. I really don't think there are many actors you could even have a thread like this about. Nurse - “how could it ever go back”. A Tolkien theme of no simplistic destruction-of-all-evil and preservation-of-all-good? Fascinating comment but... sorry for being thick by can you please explain?:o

Edit: Discussion of Frodo free will over in the Green Dragon (again I guess) if any one's interested http://www.khazaddum.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1349

First, I just want to add a "Me, too" to what Hobmom's said. :)

---------

Went back and pulled up estella's post because I hadn't had a chance until tonight to look at the "Oliphaunt" scene (shouldn't have been doing it tonight, but, oh, well... :rolleyes: )

Originally posted by estella rose
I don’t see Elijah Wood when I watch Lord of the Rings. I go in to watch the films intending remember the significance of every eyebrow twitch, as has been analysed and counter-analysed. But I still get lost in the magic of the performance, and the magic of the film as a whole.
This is true for me, too--I don't look for those things while I'm actually watching the movie, and certainly don't stop to analyze them! That's what frame-by-frame viewing and screencaps are for :p ! I do get curious about certain scenes more than others, though, when I realize there's something going on that I want to take a closer look at. And sometimes something will catch the corner of my eye, and I'll go back and "investigate" it later. Ah, the wonders of DVDs (and an occasional VCD ;) ) :) .

There is a question I would like to put to the Faculty. It’s something that has bothered me a little on the last few viewings of TTT, and it’s in the same vein as ‘is Sam pushing Frodo away?’ In Ithilien, just as the Oliphaunts appear Sam grasps Frodo’s arm. It seems to me that Frodo kind of shoves Sam’s hand away. Perhaps Sam was grabbing too tightly and it hurt? The facial expressions are perfect for the scene (smiling, almost shining with wonder), but that little movement I found a bit jarring. Has anyone else seen that, or am I over-reading it?

Well, I just spent more time than I should have :rolleyes: checking out that scene--frame-by-frame (several times) whenever Frodo and Sam were onscreen, and I have to say I don't see it. What I see is that Frodo (feeling the urgency of his task because of the gathering of armies to Mordor) says they have to move on, and gets up and starts to move off. Sam is still facing the army and, without looking behind him, reaches back to Frodo to get his attention. But, as far as I can tell, he never really has hold of Frodo. It looks to me as if Sam's arm kind of hits against Frodo's further arm, which gets Frodo's attention and he allows himself to be turned back by it. When Sam knows that Frodo is returning, he lowers his arm. I might be missing something, but I don't see Sam actually grasping Frodo's arm. And it does look to me as if Sam lowers his arm himself, not that Frodo is shaking it off. I did take screencaps of it (what a surprise :eek: !!). I haven't done any "processing" on them, but if there's interest in seeing them, I certainly can.

Originally posted by Maeglian

OTOH, I'm still worrying about the politically correct pick-up scene possibility. Erendis, I think the one you posted somewhere else (at CoE?), the pc Grey Havens, really illustrated those fears. The one where Frodo asks Arwen "Why were we fighting, queen Evenstar?" and gets a long speech in reply, explaining "what has been going on here and what it all meant and why it was right for us to sacrifice so much" Okay, I have to kill this rumor. This little scene that Maeg refers to is NOT in any way connected with anything rumored or filmed. I'ts little scene that I *made up*, as a what's-the-worst-that-could happen jokey thing, aka: What Would Happen if New Line Demanded an RotK Scene Equivalent to UN Sam. Here is the original:Posted by Erendis in the Harem way back in mid-April

Scene: Grey Havens.

Arwen: Ringbearer, you have saved Middle Earth, but not for yourself.
Frodo: What have I saved Middle Earth for, Queen Evenstar?
Arwen: Some things have to be lost in order for things to be gained. We do not love the sword for its sharpness, but wars there must be -- with minimal loss of civilian lives, of course -- while there was evil in the world. But now [lip quiver], your Sam has Elanor, and he will have Merry-lad, and Goldielocks, and others, and he will happily rule as mayor for all his years. [sharp intake of breath] Your Sam will be whole, as he was meant to be. That is what Middle Earth is, and it's worth saving. [sob]I think Maeg knows that this is just a joke of mine, but I wanted to set that straight.

Tg-
First, I just want to add a "Me, too" to what Hobmom's said.

Thanks! But which bits are you saying 'Me too' to? ;)

Oh! And I love all the caps you've been doing. Focussing on all those subtle little changes in his face in the Taming sequence is amazing to look at.

When will you be capping Osgiliath? Hint....hint...

I have GOT to get a dvd drive for my PC so I can do these things. Then Aged Mom will KNOW I'm around the bend because I will NEVER get off the computer!

Erendis and everyone, yes, of course I knew that the Arwen-at-Havens-explaining-the-meaning-of-it-all was just a joke, but one that IMO serves well to illustrate a worst-case Oscar-pc scene scenario.

Looking back at my post I see I kind of assumed that everyone else would get that that's all it is too, so I didn't make it very clear that this *is* just a joke.

Very sorry about that, Erendis. :o

Now time now to read new posts. Back later.

Thank you tg :) for having a look at that scene in Ithilien. I really wasn't sure what I was seeing there.

I should confess that it was only on my 11th (or so) cinema viewing that I actually thought I saw something there, but even after some 'stop, pause, rewind, slowmotion' on the little birdie that has so nicely nested at my house I just couldn't make it out. I'll give it the benefit of the doubt and forget it, I think! :)

This is a very intriguing discussion, about fandom in general, and each person's individual reasons for becoming intrigued by Elijah Wood's Frodo (and his other roles). I'm afraid I was one of those 'oh no, not him' people that tg referred to. But within a very, very, very short space of time I had changed my mind completely.

It did have a certain addictive quality to it, at first. I had been completely out of the loop for all film-making news right up to the time I saw FOTR, so I had SO MUCH to catch up on. Many a lunch hour and late night was spent doing research :p. And also, it was fun to learn new technical skills, and really become acquainted with the potential of the 'Net, and computers and such like. So in that respect I would say this has had a very profound effect on my life. But the need to know about the films and about Elijah/Frodo is more contained now. I don't visit many sites, and I have the check-in, check-the-news, check-out approach refined to an art form.

This has also had a profound effect on the way I read Tolkien. I have never thought about what I've been reading so much as I have over the last year or so. And I've gone back to the Sil, and to the Letters, and really have a much better understanding and appreciation of the story than before.

Sorry, I'm rambling. :o

from Hobmom
Thanks! But which bits are you saying 'Me too' to?

Hmmm... Let's see what I'd have to leave out ;) :

Originally posted by Hobmom
Yes Tg...that's it! I don't think there ARE any other discussions like this about anybody! I haven't Googled for them but this HAS to be a rarity!

I think Elijah is a true 'thinking woman's' actor. There is SO much there to be fascinated about.

I'd have to omit this, because I've never been a fan before :) :The fandom idea stopped bothering me a long time ago because I HAVE been a fan of others who effected me deeply but Elijah is unlike anyone I've ever been effected by before.

I, too, was relatively unaware of him (relatively, yes, compared to a lot of other actors), apart from knowing his name, before FOTR. And I was a LOTR fan for decades before the film was finally made. I was watching TORN to see what was going on in the filming from the get go. But it was the film in it's entirety that interested me and in how well they would bring Tolkien's gorgeous world to life. Frodo was my favorite character but I was concerned about other aspects of the story as well.

THEN I saw the first official FOTR poster! With Elijah as Frodo holding the Ring and looking SO FRODO! And SO something more. The emotion in his face on just that one poster reached and grabbed me and I knew something great was coming - the movie of course, but also the first inklings of the Frolijah phenomenon. (The poster did have that effect on me, too, but, even moreso the first online trailer, which was my first chance to see Elijah in character--not just in costume. That was my "OMG, it's him! moment.)

Dec. 19! Saw it the first time. Too bowled over by the whole experience to take it all in. But most impressed by Elijah. Second viewing....Elijah WAS the movie. Other actors might have been an interesting Frodo but Elijah took Frodo to another level altogether. He is the heart of the entire three films.( I have few fears for ROTK... He is going to soar!) And his almost inate way of conveying emotions with the subtle changes on his face is unlike any other actor I can think of. Yes, he's beautiful but there are lots of great looking actors out there and I couldn't care less about most of them. But with Elijah it's what's behind the beauty that shines through and is most important. There's a mind there, and intelligence and a heart that is really different and superior to any young actor around and many of the old ones too.

(Mother differences ;) -- My poor Aged Mom [86 years old] watched FotR on video [she can't sit for 3 hours in a theater] but even skipping the major fight/battle scenes it was too violent for her, so I haven't even suggested TTT. But we have joked about the fact that a large percentage of the nonviolent movies I've loaned her happen to have the same young actor in them. :p And thank goodness she lives 160 miles away and doesn't have a computer, so she has no idea how much time I spend online--and working on screencaps :eek: .)

And at that moment I thought of the idea that Elijah is a thinking woman's actor. I am interested in him on so many levels much centered on what he will do next and watching what he's done in the past. I do have some(OK a lot of) interest in him as a person (Well, depending on how that's defined :) ...) but I can't stand the types of fans who invade a celebrities life and spy on everything they do. And I feel a genuine respect for Elijah because of his uniqueness, personality and talent.

Pre- FOTR the very idea of caring this much about such a young man was the furthest thing from my mind. But Elijah is not like anyone else out there and I wasn't prepared for him.

And what's nicest is that if he ever reads this he'll just blush and say.. "Oh no, no,no... Stop it!" If he knew how special he is he wouldn't be the same.

Some day I hope he is truly recognized for what he has accomplished with Frodo and for what he does in the future.
This answers question? :) :p

Nurse - quote:
---------------------------------------------
“how could it ever go back”. A Tolkien theme of no simplistic destruction-of-all-evil and preservation-of-all-good?
---------------------------------------------------
Fascinating comment but... sorry for being thick by can you please explain?

Naiad-I just meant that, for those of us who haven't been reading Tolkien for 30 years (but wish we had!;) it illustrates his theme that, in a battle between good and evil, unlike most Hollywood style stories, evil is not completely destroyed nor is good completely preserved. Some obvious examples are the effect the quest had on Frodo, the change in the elves and their rings and the scouring of the Shire.

Sam's speech-too bad PJ didn't give himself and us more credit. The first time we saw it, my hubby leaned over and sarcasticly said "oscar clip".

I might make an EW fan of him yet. He (totally independent of me) voiced his dismay at Chain of Fools ("a good movie") not being widely released while worse ones are.

I have found an animated movie worse than TT & T. Thankfully EW's not in it. We only managed to sit through 25 min of All Dogs Go to Heaven while I survived all of TT & T (although the mole king's song was the longest year of my life).

I'll be gone to Colorado for 2 weeks and will miss you.

estella, please do come out of your closet and embrace your full-bloodied angst mavenish credentials. Because some folks (okay. me) are practically drooling to see what you've got capped. ;) Oh, and thanks for the tissues, Prim, but ewwww, did you have to tell us about loins and fish? :D

Hobmom, aside from the fact that I never tried to find out about the movie before FotR came out, and the aged mother bit, I 'me too' your post too. :) I did say that I don't mind drooling alone, but I forgot to add that drooling in glorious fine company that seems to understand and accomodate you is always the best. Especially if there's Milo around for the drinking. (((Maeg))) And through all the obsessions and almost-fandoms I've had through the years, LOTR has always been the most special - even when it was 'just' a book - I know LOTR will remain my most special obsession, and with it, my interest in Elijah's talents. Sure, any good actor can play Frodo, but only Elijah Wood can be Frodo. That's the way it works for me.

Mariol, your Frodo tale kinda mirrors my Aragorn tale. Kinda. ;) I started off liking Strider in the book, but as he became more Kingly and Elessar-ly I got plain irritated with him, and the only reason I continued to like him was because of the love story in the Appendix. So if it weren't for Viggo and PJ doing whatever they did to get Aragorn to the screen, I don't think I would have had any renewed interest in Aragorn, or appreciation for what he's all about. :) Back on topic:, great pictorial Frodo comparison analysis between FotR and TTT. Highly scholastic. And supremely cute and watchable and gaze-able and angsty. I think the Faculty can get away with gratuitous *cough* angstiness at any point in time, though, right? Right. Good. Because I know I'll never get enough of tg showing us 'dead hobbit' caps. LOL. Soon as I read estella's post asking about the Oliphaunts I knew tg would have the caps for us :k -- I never saw it either, estella, but thanks for giving me a reason to rewatch TTT again. ;) Btw, tg, you wouldn't happen to have that little thing Frodo does, where he's smiling at Sam as Sam enthuses about telling the folks back home about his Oliphaunt sighting but then when he turns away from Sam the smile kind of just slips away and there's a certain something in his eyes that just conjures up the angstiest notions you can think of. Sorry for the messed up sentence. I can't seem to think of a way to make it gramatically correct, but I trust tg will know precisely what I mean. :p :D

whiteling - your English is fine, and you're among quite a few of us users of English as a second language here. We do try to massacre the language at times, but the rest of the Faculty don't seem to want to try to stop us. Hmm. :D

Have a safe trip, nurse!

Oh, and tg, I've been enjoying your angsty avatar series of late. ;)

The fandom idea stopped bothering me a long time ago because I HAVE been a fan of others who effected me deeply but Elijah is unlike anyone I've ever been effected by before.

Same here, Hobmom, I've had two or three 'crazes' about people way back in the past but this is a different thing altogether. Elijah has added a massive dimension to an already full life - and young as he is, and old as I am, I feel that I have learned so much from him and that he's really enriched my life:)


Dec. 19! Saw it the first time. Too bowled over by the whole experience to take it all in. But most impressed by Elijah. Second viewing....Elijah WAS the movie. Other actors might have been an interesting Frodo but Elijah took Frodo to another level altogether. He is the heart of the entire three films

I didn't see it until Jan. 26 - I am jealous of your extra 38 days:D And on that day I hadn't even heard Elijah's name before - I'd taken very little notice of the LOTR publicity before then and only just started reading FOTR. I really wish I could have been aware of the making of the film from the very beginning instead of having to trawl back through the archives.
For me also Elijah was the heart and soul of the movie - after the first viewing I felt somewhat shell-shocked - the whole thing, but Frodo in particular, had such a profound effect on me. With every viewing my fascination, admiration and affection just escalated. I'm sure I'd have enjoyed the film if Elijah hadn't been in it - I may even have seen it twice - but that would have been it. You're right - Elijah WAS the movie.

And his almost inate way of conveying emotions with the subtle changes on his face is unlike any other actor I can think of. Yes, he's beautiful but there are lots of great looking actors out there and I couldn't care less about most of them. But with Elijah it's what's behind the beauty that shines through and is most important. There's a mind there, and intelligence and a heart that is really different and superior to any young actor around and many of the old ones too.

This is what Ian McKellan was talking about when he said "its Elijah's beauty of spirit that makes his Frodo shine from the screen". And the more I learn about him the more I understand what Sean Astin meant when he talked about the 1000-year-old soul and Miranda Otto's beautiful quote about the innocence of a child, wisdom of a 90-year old, and the grace of an angel. Every day I see people on the screen or in RL who have faces that could be described as beautiful, but there is nothing behind them, they lack that 'lit up from within' quality that Elijah has.

My poor Aged Mom, who loves the films, but is not a total fanatic like me was wondering with that Motherly worry that they never lose no matter how old we get, about Elijah and Frodo being such a huge obsession with me. (BTW I DO have other interests in life!) I mean she knows about all the time I spend here and all the fanfic I write...I make her read it..... and the whole Lij obsession in general. So I told her I never get a crush and/or interest in anyone who doesn't deserve it.

Oh my God, my parents know nothing about Elijah - they know I like LOTR and think its very strange that I saw it - as they think - 3 times - don't know what they'd think if they knew the truth - that I saw it six times at the cinema and have lost count with the dvd - they can't understand why anyone should want to see any film more than once. They have never seen FOTR or TTT but I'd imagine their verdict would be similar to that of my sister-in-law who said "Why didn't he just throw the thing away?":rolleyes: They are in their mid-80's but still have the ability to make me feel very silly. My beloved husband and two grown-up kids know about my Elijah obsession and are very indulgent with me - but then, they only know the tip of the iceberg:)


Pre- FOTR the very idea of caring this much about such a young man was the furthest thing from my mind. But Elijah is not like anyone else out there and I wasn't prepared for him.

Its exactly the same for me, I feel as if I lead a doule life now, and its difficult to imagine a time when I didn't know about him.

And what's nicest is that if he ever reads this he'll just blush and say.. "Oh no, no,no... Stop it!" If he knew how special he is he wouldn't be the same.

His amazing modesty is one of the many, many aspects I love about him - quite remarkable for one in his profession.

Some day I hope he is truly recognized for what he has accomplished with Frodo and for what he does in the future.

Amen to that.

Hi to all.

Ainon, Mariol, I'm glad to be granted to continue with interesting linguistic innovations... probably english native speakers will see completely new dimensions of their language...:confused: :D

Oh, Maeglian, I loved the idea of chest acting research! Sounds
really Faculty-worthy! :cool:

Blossom, in my last post I've forgotten to mention my fond memories of Great Britain (England's south) where my hubby and I spent our honeymoon 6 years ago. So it is me to say, too: what a beautiful place! :)

Nurse, concerning the fandom of your husband: hope! By now my hubby is sitting by my side when I'm watching the cutest scenes from Huck Finn (wearing girl's dress and Susan's 'examination') and bursts (like me) every time into something like "I can't believe it, it's so cute!!" --- Or should I be worried about that :eek: ;) ?
Have a good journey!

Originally posted by ainon
...Prim, but ewwww, did you have to tell us about loins and fish? :D
Uh-huh. I got this picture of a grass skirt but instead of grass it's made out of dead fish hanging down :eek: :D !
...LOTR has always been the most special - even when it was 'just' a book - I know LOTR will remain my most special obsession, and with it, my interest in Elijah's talents. Sure, any good actor can play Frodo, but only Elijah Wood can be Frodo. That's the way it works for me.
I accepted the fact long ago that Tolkien (and especially LotR) would be a lifelong obsession for me. The movies and finding great people to discuss them with has brought it to the fore again. ---- Oh, yes, there was one thing I'd thought of adding for the fandom discussion. Since I first heard about the movies being made, I've followed them pretty closely. I figure that even though the process is lasting about five years, it is a once-in-a-lifetime experience, and involves the fictional book and character that have meant the most to me in my life. I think I'll always be a fan of Elijah's and be very interested in whatever project he's working on, but for his other roles I truly don't think I'll be spending as much time savoring every detail the way I have for Frodo. There is something unique about the blend of character and actor in Frolijah.
Btw, tg, you wouldn't happen to have that little thing Frodo does, where he's smiling at Sam as Sam enthuses about telling the folks back home about his Oliphaunt sighting but then when he turns away from Sam the smile kind of just slips away and there's a certain something in his eyes that just conjures up the angstiest notions you can think of.
I know what you mean, and might have gotten a few pics of it, but I really was concentrating on the point estella had mentioned because I didn't have a lot of time to spend on it. Another "little thing" is when Frodo first turns back to Sam after he (Frodo) had already gotten up to move on. There's something in his face that seems to say he'd already moved on mentally and his mind was completely on his Task, so that when he comes back to look at the Oliphaunt it takes him a moment to come back to that reality. [And to avoid any confusion on cast members, it was Liv who was in "That Thing You Do," and I don't think she was talking to Frodo ;) .]

Oh, and tg, I've been enjoying your angsty avatar series of late. ;)
Oh, thanks :) . I've been getting seriously close to running out of avatars (I used to always have about 30 ready and waiting, and had gotten down to fewer than 10). So I've been tending lately to take them from scenes I've screencapped, since half the work is done already :) . And, gee, I don't know why :rolleyes: , but seems I've been screencapping some angsty scenes lately :p . [Hmmm... specifically in TTT, are there any Frodo scenes that don't have some form of angst in them??] -- BTW, the avatar that's up right now would probably look a bit strange to someone who didn't know what it was--it's when he's shouting "Gandalf" as he wakes up in the "Just a dream" scene. It made an impression on me when I first saw it, because I hadn't realized that he'd opened his mouth so far and really shouted the name.

Tg...ONLY on those FEW points, huh? LOL;)

It looks like Elijah has effected us all in a similar way.

even moreso the first online trailer, which was my first chance to see Elijah in character--not just in costume. That was my "OMG, it's him! moment

How could I have forgotten about THAT! YES! The first time I SAW him and HEARD him say "There's something down there." And and everything! A major defining Elijah moment indeed!

And speaking of Aged Mom... I live with her and she's 83 but mighty spunky and a movie and actor buff from waaay back... I remember downloading that trailer and then saying "Hey! You HAVE to watch this!" And I made her watch it over and over and then I had to tell her the whole basic plot of LOTR because she can't read the whole thing because her eyesight isn't too good. So she was there at the inception of my Lij fanaticism and has gotten dragged to all my viewings of it and knows I'm here at the PC probably writing something about Frodo/Elijah right now.
:rolleyes: :D ...AND that I watch bits of LOTR and his films and tapes just about every night. :rolleyes: AND about all the pics I have either saved of him....a lot!.... on the computer or printed up and stashed neatly in folders in my room. :rolleyes:

Oh no! I'm not the least obsessed!:D At least I'm not like that fan whose rooms were shown on Always and Forever with her walls plastered with his pictures. THAT'S just a little too far gone for me. I must have a few moments when I'm NOT staring at him sometimes.I stopped doing that wall-plastering back in my Beatlemania days. All right, all right.... I DO have two posters up. An official one and one I made but THAT'S IT! REALLY!:rolleyes: ;)

Mom is just resigned to my obsession. It's the younger members of my family who don't live with me but that have an inking of my 'thing' for Elijah that seriously roll their eyes and look positively shocked that Auntie is so.... erm...demented. :rolleyes: :D ;)

Originally posted by Hobmom
AND about all the pics I have either saved of him....a lot!.... on the computer or printed up and stashed neatly in folders in my room.
I'm hoping I can tell this story without seeming to make fun of anyone, because I honestly don't remember where I saw it, or even which LotR actor was involved (except that it wasn't Elijah). But it was in some LotR-related thread that was devoted to a particular actor, and someone posted a message saying that she couldn't believe that she had an entire folder on her computer with nothing but pics of that actor. I just thought, "Sweetie, you have no idea :p :p !!" When I make my next "info dump", which will probably be during whatever scene I do after I finish the Nazgul flyover, I'll have made 10,000 screencaps. Is that scary or what :eek: :rolleyes: ?

...All right, all right.... I DO have two posters up. An official one and one I made but THAT'S IT! REALLY!
I've made myself a LotR calendar each year since the first promo shots for FotR were available, and the last couple of years I've even been brave enough to hang them up in my office :p . Of course, unless someone paid more attention to it than anyone does, they wouldn't realize that the pic for each month has Frodo in it ;) . This year I have pics with Frodo and Sam together for each month except December--just couldn't pass up using the golden Osgiliath poster for that one. At home I have a small printout (4x6) of the first official poster in one of those magnetic picture frames stuck on a metal cabinet in my kitchen. .........and a stack of DVDs, and a couple of rows of VHS tapes, and related books and magazine articles just about anywhere you look, and a pile of CDs holding screencaps that won't fit on my hard drive.... And, of course, the Frodo screensaver, and a Sam&Frodo pic as wallpaper [on the computer, okay? :rolleyes: ] :p .

----------------

Tonight, though, I'm going to have to do something against my nature and try to find some good Aragorn caps :eek: ! The only other Tolkien fan in the department is leaving :( :( :( and I just found out that the going-away party for her is tomorrow, which doesn't leave me much time! I've made LotR birthday cards for her before, so want to do some kind of a "farewell" card--and she's a faithful Aragorn swooner :rolleyes: . Oh, well, takes all kinds ;) .

Originally posted by tgshaw
I know what you mean, and might have gotten a few pics of it, but I really was concentrating on the point estella had mentioned because I didn't have a lot of time to spend on it. Another "little thing" is when Frodo first turns back to Sam after he (Frodo) had already gotten up to move on. There's something in his face that seems to say he'd already moved on mentally and his mind was completely on his Task, so that when he comes back to look at the Oliphaunt it takes him a moment to come back to that reality. [And to avoid any confusion on cast members, it was Liv who was in "That Thing You Do," and I don't think she was talking to Frodo ;) .]

Ah, I knew you'd know, tg. :k I know that other little thing you mean too. Although about Liv Tyler, come on, everything's always about Frodo, right? ;)

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-6/93723/hobbitsarwenlagi.jpg
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-6/93723/hobbitsarwen.jpg


-------------------------------------

I have many, many Frodo pics in my various folders. A close friend of mine who shared a previous obsession visited me recently, and visited my computer too (we used to look up pics and fanfics together so it didn't occur to me to not let her look this time) and when she saw all the Frodos she promptly declared me chronically in need of help. :p :D Of course I saw through her immediately. She's just jealous that I have a hobbit to angst over now and for all time and for whom I've always angsted over, while she's still looking for a suitable substitute for our previous angst candidate.


Okay ... now that the Faculty is looking at me funny I'll quickly change the subject and ask tg which Aragorn caught her fancy. ;) I have a friend who's an Aragorn swooner too. Been trying to get her to come to Frodo's side, but she keeps saying that the hairy feet are a turn-off. Sigh. :o

Nice "on the set" pics, ainon. Thanks

Originally posted by ainon
She's just jealous that I have a hobbit to angst over now and for all time and for whom I've always angsted over, while she's still looking for a suitable substitute for our previous angst candidate.
Aren't timeless classics wonderful? :p :p


Okay ... now that the Faculty is looking at me funny...
Oh, because you hang out with someone who doesn't appreciate Frodo? Well, none of us is perfect ;) .

...I'll quickly change the subject and ask tg which Aragorn caught her fancy. ;) I have a friend who's an Aragorn swooner too. Been trying to get her to come to Frodo's side, but she keeps saying that the hairy feet are a turn-off. Sigh. :o
Well, she's read the book but the movies are her main focus, so it's definitely Viggo's Aragorn she swoons for. OTOH, it's only Viggo's Aragorn she swoons for--I asked about his other movies and she's not interested in them. She likes the scraggly/straggly beard, the man who's out in the wilds, solitary warrior, the strong/silent/sensitive type, that kind of stuff, y'know. The Hobbits don't generally fit that picture :p .

I didn't finish making a card for her, but I did take some screencaps and have formed an entirely unbiased and objective :rolleyes: opinion regarding Elijah's screencaps vs. those of the several actors (Viggo, Bernard Hill, Orlando, John R-D) who were in the scenes I used last night. IMHO, without the context of the dialogue, etc., the others' screencaps don't give more than a hint at what the character might be thinking or feeling. In fact, I have started making a little series from them entitled, "The Saga of Brego the Wonder Horse," with Brego being jilted by Aragorn for someone else--but the mystery is who that someone else is, because Aragorn seems to fall in love with everyone he meets--and vice versa. The facial expressions and body language are ambiguous enough that you could use them for a variety of emotions--I was LOL at some of them because of what you could read into them if you wanted. I may be wrong, but I think you'd have a hard time doing that with Elijah's screencaps. [The only possible exception in the scenes I watched last night would be Miranda Otto--her emotions were pretty clear, although not as nuanced as Elijah's.]

-----Which all leads me to a thought I've had just this moment, reflecting on the avatar I'm using today and how those particular shots from the Taming of Smeagol remind me so much of the "classical art" discussion. What I've attributed that to up until now is the coloring of the scene, since it's really "artistic" rather than "natural." Along with a camera angle that shows Elijah's classical facial features well. But I've just thought of something else that might have something to do with the reason Elijah seems to be the one compared to artworks rather than others (some others do have classical features, probably even more so than Elijah's). IMVHO, it may be because he is such a visual actor--as can be seen in what great screencaps he produces. You can read exactly what's happening on his face and in his body language. Which is exactly how artists have to show emotions in the subjects of their paintings. The ambiguous expressions the other actors use just don't hold their own without the dialogue. ------ Just a stray thought....

from tgshaw
I think it's because he [EW] is such a visual actor--as can be seen in what great screencaps he produces. You can read exactly what's happening on his face and in his body language. ... The ambiguous expressions the other actors use just don't hold their own without the dialogue.
Tg, I have long had this "stray thought" of yours, particularly regarding LOTR (I haven't watched any other movie so much in my life to compare at this level; my previous record holder was "The Russians are Coming" -- loved their little black outfits!). The fact is, with some of the other actors' performances, the repeated viewings tend to weaken them. I notice a lapse of attention or a look that has me wondering, "what is he thinking here?" For me, Miranda Otto's performance in TTT was a standout. In the scene where she sees that Aragorn is alive (*ignore Tolkien purist sigh over this scene even being there*), she shows a wonderful complex play of emotions over her face. For me, one of the marks of an excellent actor is not how they deliver their lines, but how they react to others. Picture Ian McKellan's reaction as Gandalf when he hears Frodo declare that he will take the Ring. Very heartbreaking! The actors who draw you in do so with their face and reactive expressions as much (if not more so) than their spoken lines (although some actors, like Patrick Stewart, I just want to hear go on and on and on and on because of the beauty of his voice, but I think that's his extra special bonus. Hand the man the OED and a magnifying glass and tell him to read aloud, and I'm set!).

It's interesting how Elijah's performance seems to get better with repeated viewings, and I think it's this nuanced thing we're picking up. I never before appreciated how different an actor's performance has to be _physically_ depending on whether he's going for the big laugh or something very subtle. I'm reminded of JRD's anecdote on one of the DVDs where he talks about how mindful the actor has to be about the distance of the camera, the type of film, and the speed at which it's shot. He demonstrated making a "normal" facial expression, vs a tiny little twitch of a smirk, which he says is a "huge movement" for a close-up on the big screen.

It is here that I'm grateful that PJ chose an experienced actor to portray Frodo. JRD has been around forever, and knows his film speed and lens sizes, so he knows how much "expression" to put into a scene. A newbie actor would have to discover those subtlties for the first time during our film! But through the grace of Eru, we were saved! Elijah was probably fully aware, either through consciously learned knowledge or just his experience after having been in so many movies, that when PJ (or whoever) had the camera right in his face, that a subtle movement of the jaw and barely detectable twitch of the brow would be all that the screen could handle. The fact that this holds up over time is probably partly demonstrated by that recent article (can't find the link just now) that showed LOTR is the movie most people would pick if they could only watch one movie for a week. I really missed having so much less of EW in TTT (and less of Sir Ian), and I just don't think TTT will hold up as a movie to as many repeat viewings as Fellowship has.

from shireling
For me also Elijah was the heart and soul of the movie - after the first viewing I felt somewhat shell-shocked - the whole thing, but Frodo in particular, had such a profound effect on me. With every viewing my fascination, admiration and affection just escalated.
I meant to say what you said. Thanks! :p

----- END of Elijah-specific comments, BEGIN fandom and random "Me, too" comments -----

from tgshaw
When I make my next "info dump", which will probably be during whatever scene I do after I finish the Nazgul flyover, I'll have made 10,000 screencaps. Is that scary or what?
What's scary is that so many of us are waiting for you to post them! 10,000 screencaps -- *snaps fingers* Why, I could page through those many screencaps (plus the essential commentary) in an hour ... or two ... or nine... Thank heavens for computer files, particularly subdirectories under innocuous names such as "morepics". I figure that no one will discover these until after I'm deceased (because I'm certain I'll die of embarrassment if anyone discovers them before...)

I must be in some kind of state of denial (or am simply afraid of being branded "weird," something a lady in her forties shouldn't be afraid of, but there you go). I don't have any visible posterage in my office or home. I have a stack of LOTR magazines that I periodically shuffle to expose a different cover picture. I have a Harry Potter poster on the wall as a red herring and a Harry Potter calendar in my kitchen downstairs, but a FOTR daily calendar upstairs by my computer. It is more picture-oriented than day-oriented, and will get stuck on certain days for a lengthy period of time (but no one will notice that May 26 was up for a whole month). I do have LOTR wallpaper on my desktop (always featuring Frodo) that I change (and create new ones of) regularly. Oh, I also use the Frodo screensaver. My Elijah Wood videos are mixed in with the others, but my sisters came to visit and spotted them immediately.

Generally I can get away with being a Tolkien nut and devotee (which I am), but it's hard for me to admit how much I appreciate Elijah in this particular role. This message board is "my little secret." Hm, maybe it's time for an appointment with the shrink...

erendis, your Oscar theory has me hopeful. *Crossing fingers for angsty, nuanced reshoots...*

estella rose, loved your story about the films reigniting your interest in LOTR and Frodo. I'd love to see your pictorial journey, if you ever get it completed enough to post.

nurse's memories of her first viewing: “it’s over already?!” :D Me, too!

great pictorial Frodo comparison analysis between FotR and TTT. Highly scholastic.
Thanks, ainon! :k And all others who commented. :k I may be forced to do another set of comparison photos at some point, as tg's screencaps are often ... inspiring.

from whiteling
probably english native speakers will see completely new dimensions of their language
Bring 'em on, Whiteling! I'm always up for some linguistic innovations. Although everyone's mastery of their second language here puts me to shame. :o

from tgshaw
I got this picture of a grass skirt but instead of grass it's made out of dead fish hanging down
Me, too. Thanks for the image, Prim! It looks good on you.

Random short comments, sometimes less than serious :o

I may be forced to do another set of comparison photos at some point, as tg's screencaps are often ... inspiring. Oh, yes! Please! I loved those comparisons! :) (Looks around for those tissues of Prim's provided for ainon's use, as I'm practically frooling at the thought..... I mean, drooling! :o)

Hand the man the OED and a magnifying glass and tell him to read aloud, and I'm set!.This is my reaction to EJW with his English Frodo accent. I just *couldn't* get tired of listening to that. (I don't know what OED is, though :o )

You can read exactly what's happening on his face and in his body language.Hmmm... I happened to visit Always & Forever again and a new set of Try 17 pics (some of which I haven't seen among Hobmom's yet, I think). Those pics combined with that quote.... I wonder if that film won't present a health hazard so significant that I should just count myself lucky that I can't seem to get hold of it......

Nah. Still want to see it. I'll brave the risk. :D Anything for research! ;)


My first (completely non-spoiled) viewing of FotR had equal parts of 3 different reactions:

- Huh!? (at Weathertop, the ford, nuclear Galadriel, etc), and
- Griping about too much violence (for instance I thought Boromir's death was far too violent first time I saw it, and I disliked the cave troll fight, and Lurtz.....ugh), and
- Huge and happy appreciation at all the characters and things that felt totally, absolutely "right"; Elijah's Frodo and McKellen's Gandalf, Hobbiton, Rivendell.... among many others.

My second viewing of FotR: LOVED, LOVED, LOVED it !!! It was like being hit over the head; - in the best way ! :)


"Evidence" of my interest? At home, lots of Tolkien books, none of them new, several film related books and magazines, those are new, of course. Quite a lot of EJW-related DVDs and videos (spread among the others :rolleyes: ) and otherwise most of it is in the computer. The Frodo wallpaper being the first hint, of course. At work, no visible evidence. :D But my colleagues know of my LotR interest and often joke about it (countdowns to RotK and the like). I don't make a secret about who I think the best actor is, either, if the issue comes up (which *has* happened); - I just don't go *on* about it. :o


ainon, thank you for those behind-the-scenes pics! Liv on a box, in scenes that we'll never get to see, I assume. The first one, where she's wearing that green cloak/jacket, immediately reminded me of some kind of gothic or vampire movie. The cloaked sinister gargoyle or vampire, ready to swoop down on its intended innocent victims.... :eek: No, this is *not* Liv bashing, it's merely the position of the people in the picture that made me think of that kind of film. Me and my vampires. :rolleyes:

Sorry, Maeg! OED is Oxford English Dictionary -- waaaaaay big book (2 giant volumes in my house) with way little type. They actually provided a magnifying glass with my set.

And thank you for pointing out it was Liv on the box. I'd always seen it as Hugo Weaving holding up his long cloak like a skirt. (What does this say about my mind?) :o

(What does this say about my mind?) Perhaps it simply says that you've once seen "Priscilla, Queen of the Desert"? :D

Thank you for the OED clarification. :)

Warning: More ramblings!

We had an afternoon tea at my office a week or two ago. You know, the sort where you are supposed to bond with your fellow w-orcers. Usually we have photo competitions (Guess who’s the baby? Guess who’s the teenager?) This time we had ‘Guess the interesting fact’ about a person. My ‘fact’ was ‘Who is the office authority on the works of JRR Tolkien?’ No one guessed! Which just goes to show how successfully I cover this up.

At work it’s a fairly deliberate thing to keep this quiet. Although I do have a set of the books by the computer. And a map of Middle-earth on my noticeboard. Oh, and a LOTR day-by-day calendar…And the Frodo-covered-in-cobwebs picture as my wallpaper. But I’m usually the only one who sees that as I sign in and sign out.

What does give me nightmares about using my work computer would be if someone were to check my history file. Or my bookmarks. That would give the game right away! :eek:

At home, well, I was warned by my husband that I could do what I wanted, just not create a ‘shrine’. But I wouldn’t want to do that anyway. :eek: I have my books by the computer, and assorted print outs and essays and other stuff. And this is my home wallpaper:

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-6/249376/frodoandsamparty.jpg

I like the contrast between Happy Frodo at home, and Extremely Worried Frodo at work.

We have collected a number of DVDs and videos which feature A Certain Actor. But no one has actually commented on that yet (although my son persists in calling Huck Finn ‘Young Frodo’). I tend to watch anything on TV that features any of the LOTR actors, so that masks it a bit.

Fortunately the computer at home is mine, all mine, my own. So I can fill it up with whatever I want. :D

I agree whole-heartedly with tg and mariol, who commented on the nuances in Elijah’s Frodo, and that the performance seems to improve with each viewing. It is true that there is always something new to notice, and to ponder. I don’t actually have anything I can compare this to directly – like others, I’ve never seen another film as many times as I’ve seen FOTR and TTT – but each time my eye is drawn to him, even when I mean to look out for the other characters. It all seems so effortless, so natural. I don’t see the ‘craft’ or ‘technique’ of it either, just the emotion.

Tg’s references to the colouring used in the films, especially the differences in approach between FOTR and TTT is interesting too. I noticed the digital grading in TTT much more than I did in FOTR. Grey/blue overtones are used extensively through TTT, and they support the increasing sense of dirt, of grimness. And, in a sense, the way Frodo is filmed could be likened to a succession of still pictures, or set pieces. The screen caps that tg has provided really prove this. They don’t just stand on their own, without the dialogue, they stand very well as a particular moment caught in time, not just moments plucked out of an action sequence. But ‘paintings’. For example, the scene where Frodo is standing before the Nazgul at Osgiliath is an epic portrait of evil vs good. Or the One Tear after Moria, which is such a vision of grief and loneliness. So much packed into a single frame. I’d be hard pushed to think of as many comparable images for the other actors.

I’m not actually sure this makes sense. :(

I will start posting pictures, ainon and mariol. Just as soon as I’m over this ‘flu that feels like it’s just about to hit.

Oh well. I don’t suppose a day or so at home watching DVDs will do me any harm. :)

Originally posted by estella rose
We had an afternoon tea at my office a week or two ago. You know, the sort where you are supposed to bond with your fellow w-orcers. That is SO going into my signature. :D

Originally posted by tgshaw
Oh, because you hang out with someone who doesn't appreciate Frodo? Well, none of us is perfect ;)

Oh, I knew you'd all understand! :D


estella, your double life sounds very familiar. ;) I never type the KD url if I check in at work. I go the long way -- typing KD/forums in full for one of the search engines to get for me, then I link from the hits I get. That way no one notices the odd URL if they were to check the browser's Address list. ;) If I actually log in to post, then I clear the cache and the history and delete all cookies. Me, paranoid?

That's a lovely Frodo wallpaper to have for home. At the moment mine is the Legendary Frodo & Sam one. I'll get back to something angsty sooner or later, but now it's just so heart-warming to see him cute and happy and so very young. Even if that pic is probably more Frolijah than Frodo.

She likes the scraggly/straggly beard, the man who's out in the wilds, solitary warrior, the strong/silent/sensitive type, that kind of stuff, y'know.

Before Aragorn, I never really went for the scraggly/straggly beard kinda hero (scruff is good though. ever notice how much angstiness you can get out scruff?) but Viggo's Aragorn - now, he's a fine man, y'know? As is Sean Bean's Boromir. Very fine man there too. Even dies very nicely. ;)

Aragorn seems to fall in love with everyone he meets--and vice versa.

Oooh. So I do have hope.


ainon remembers which thread she's in before someone comes at her with a trout


Aaannnd back to our boy ... I just watched 'Try 17'. :) (((shireling))) It was good to see Elijah in another movie, in a role that he's never tackled before. But I'll be frank - I can't give the movie a favourable review. :( My first impressions ... be warned that I'll be comparing Elijah to ... Adam Sandler. :eek: Don't say I didn't warn you. :p


Spoilers for 'Try 17



I'll jump right into a spoiler-referenced review because Shireling has already given us an excellent summary of the story itself. :k


Jones Dillon had an uphill battle to convince me to like him. By cultural default, I have no empathy for any kid who gets a place in college then drops out to bum his life away - unless the story can give me a good reason to empathise. Which the story didn't. IMO Jones could have been a more interesting person if he'd attended school anyway, whilst having to deal with the people around him at home. Leaving him at home doing nothing forced my mind to wander and wonder: just what the hey is the kid doing when he's not having his scenes with his co-stars?

Except -- Jones Dillon is the kind of role that actors like Adam Sandler and Ben Stiller make their careers out of: ordinary fellow, reacting to situations and circumstances around him, with emphasis on the interaction with co-stars which include one senior actor (for the former it was Jack Nicholson in 'Anger Management'; the latter had Robert De Niro for 'Meet the Parents'). And well, here's where the Faculty will trout me: Sandler and Stiller could have made Jones interesting and funny. Because to me, Elijah's Jones wasn't funny. I don't mean that he had to be LOL funny ... just that some actors can take an uninteresting or unlikeable person and make you like him. Bill Murray can do that. Sandler and Stiller do that. 'Try 17' is a comedy and I know it's not supposed to be one of those laugh-a-minute types, but it just didn't work for me. If I weren't watching it for Elijah, I probably wouldn't have watched it till the end. I had the distinct feeling that Elijah was underplaying the role when he shouldn't have. Either that or ... he's not funny. I'm not saying that to bash him -- it's just that not every actor has that gift for comedy. Edward Norton is an incredible actor who can do angst at the drop of a hat, and he can play anybody, but when I watched him in his director's debut comedy 'Keeping the Faith' it was a remarkably sore trial. :p And of course there's the story about Eric Stolz - the original Marty McFly for 'Back to the Future' who was fired halfway through filming because he just wasn't funny. Then again Elijah had perfect comic timing for 'Huck Finn' and 'North' so I just don't know why Jones Dillon doesn't work for me.

Enough said, I guess. I don't want to be too sore from the troutings! :p



/Spoilers for Try 17

Oh.

Oh well.

Can't trout you of course, when I haven't seen the film. Chances are I might possibly agree with you.... But if so, look at the bright side: If this is the proof he can't do comedy, then OK: Angstyness and tragedy and serious drama and -characters should be the way to go in future films. Or so I'd hope. Can hardly object to that! :)

The dropping-out-of-college thing, perhaps that's just there to cater to one of the (high school?) target audience's likely daydreams when everyday life gets tough: "What if I stopped going to school and just did whatever I fancied and lived by myself and went wherever life led me....... "

Edit: Gee, it was so quiet here, and now I have to edit in comments to posts that went up while I was writing! (Although it's a post-in-bits-and-pieces day at work, so one long post can take a couple of hours from start to finish.)

Anyway--I can't comment on Elijah's comedic talent specifically in Try 17, either, as I haven't seen it. But the movies in which I have liked his comedy (and, sorry, I can't count North in those :( , but I'm sure that's my problem ;) ) have been ones where he plays it absolutely "dead-pan"; one reviewer said Chain of Fools is one of those movies where the comedy depends on the characters not realizing at all that what they're saying/doing is funny, and he singled out Elijah as one of the best members of the cast at doing this. Next to CofF, I'd probably put The Faculty as having his best specifically comedic acting--deadpan again, and--I think, importantly--part of an ensemble cast that seemed to play off of each other extremely well. Can't really say Huck Finn was deadpan, but the comedy was, IMHO, very well integrated into the character rather than being obviously added on for laughs. Again, I can't say anything about Try 17 in regard to that.

Maeg may very well have the "drop-out" reasoning figured out. Having someone in school can also add one more complexity to the plot; if it's not thought to be necessary for the character, it probably won't be included. But, from what ainon's saying, maybe it was more necessary than they thought.

Originally posted by estella rose
What does give me nightmares about using my work computer would be if someone were to check my history file. Or my bookmarks. That would give the game right away! :eek:
There are some benefits to having a boss who doesn't know how to turn on a computer ;) .

I agree whole-heartedly with tg and mariol, who commented on the nuances in Elijah’s Frodo, and that the performance seems to improve with each viewing. It is true that there is always something new to notice, and to ponder. I don’t actually have anything I can compare this to directly – like others, I’ve never seen another film as many times as I’ve seen FOTR and TTT...
The only movie that's even in the neighborhood for me is 2001. I saw it 7 times in the theater, driving 90 miles to Des Moines with some friends once to see it in Cinerama (I was in high school). No VCRs in those days, so if you wanted to see a movie multiple times you had to catch it in the theater. Of course, I have it on video now and pull it out every once in awhile.

Interesting comparison, maybe, in that I always feel there's more to notice each time I watch 2001, but it has nothing to do with the actors--it's totally because of Arthur C. Clarke and Stanley Kubrick and whoever else had a hand in making that book and movie what they are. Not that the actors did a bad job, but they're simply instruments of the imagery, the story (which sweeps from pre-human evolution to speculation on humanity's next evolutionary step--not very "personal"), and what the story is saying about humanity in general. It's so devoid of individualized people with human emotions that IMHO it has to be intentional (the "main characters" in the two most moving scenes are, respectively, a space station and a computer).

In some ways, the direct opposite of what Tolkien achieved with his psychologically/emotionally complex and unique characters, just waiting to be brought to life, either in our imaginations or on the screen. "Actors' movies"?

I noticed the digital grading in TTT much more than I did in FOTR. Grey/blue overtones are used extensively through TTT, and they support the increasing sense of dirt, of grimness.
It was there in FotR, but maybe not as noticeable--Weathertop (blue), Rivendell (golden yellow), Moria (some kind of a blue mix), Lothlorien ("autumn shades" as the Fellowship first enters the forest, then lavender). One article talked about the difference in color between the scenes set in yellow "cozy" firelight at Bag End and those set in the common room of the Prancing Pony, where the firelight was made more orange in order to seem menacing. The Shire was actually altered digitally to make the greens, etc., more bright. ---- One of those amazing things about moviemaking that I wouldn't have known a thing about three years ago :cool: .


And, in a sense, the way Frodo is filmed could be likened to a succession of still pictures, or set pieces. The screen caps that tg has provided really prove this. They don’t just stand on their own, without the dialogue, they stand very well as a particular moment caught in time, not just moments plucked out of an action sequence. But ‘paintings’. For example, the scene where Frodo is standing before the Nazgul at Osgiliath is an epic portrait of evil vs good. Or the One Tear after Moria, which is such a vision of grief and loneliness. So much packed into a single frame. I’d be hard pushed to think of as many comparable images for the other actors.
It's interesting how different "theories" reinforce each other (a good sign that there's something to them, IMHO ;) ). I think this ties in very well with our first look at the micro-expression theory, when it was noted that it's impossible to catch Elijah "between" emotions when he's in character, because he moves from one to another through gradual facial expression changes, as a person normally would. OTOH, with most actors you can sometimes get screencaps that catch them in the shift from one emotion to the next so they're not really "in" an emotion. This is usually noticeable only in screencaps, not when watching a film at normal speed, but I think even if it's subliminal it adds to the natural look of Elijah's acting when compared to most actors.

And I can personally vouch for "So much packed into a single frame" where Elijah's concerned! I've made 400+ screencaps of many scenes--frame-by-frame if there's something I particularly want to look at. I could put my document view on the "list" setting, click on a random filename (which in my screencaps consist only of numbers) to open a screencap, and it would be worth looking at. (Hmmm... sounds like an interesting experiment :) .) That's why it can be so hard to pick which ones to actually post.

I will start posting pictures, ainon and mariol. Just as soon as I’m over this ‘flu that feels like it’s just about to hit.

Oh well. I don’t suppose a day or so at home watching DVDs will do me any harm. :)
Sounds like a good cure to me. Just drink lots of fluids while you're watching them :) ;) .

I'm skipping the Try 17 stuff. Thank you all for clearly marking your spoilers! I'd still like to see this someday.

I wasn't feeling well yesterday, so futzed around with pictures some more. I'm not sure what to call these. They aren't "Froshadowings" because, well, it's Frodo. Perhaps they are "Fellshadowings" -- incidents from the first movie that find an echo in a subsequent one. Some may be PJ deliberate, and some are (I'm sure) just incidental.

Using tg's wonderful screen caps as my TTT source, I came up with the following:

Frodo finds his hopes dashed ... at Bag End and the Black Gate

http://home.ricochet.com/mdes/limages/hope.jpg


Frodo watches for the enemy ... in the Woody End and BG

http://home.ricochet.com/mdes/limages/evading.jpg


Frodo saves Sam from a misstep ... at the Party and the BG

http://home.ricochet.com/mdes/limages/saving.jpg


Hobbits hide ... under cloak of darkness or elven weave

http://home.ricochet.com/mdes/limages/hiding.jpg


Sam won't let Frodo go off without him ... at the Council or the Black Gate

http://home.ricochet.com/mdes/limages/sam.jpg

Well, Mariol popped in while I was editing my last post because ainon and Maeg had popped in... :) So I can make a new post to say those "Fellshadowings" are amazing--especially the last one, IMHO, as far as resemblance. The first set I'd almost add to the series you did previously--showing how much Frodo has changed. He's getting his first dose of reality in the FotR pic, but he's seen and lived so much of it by TTT... :( Not that the comparison doesn't belong in this series, too: the FotR and TTT pics do resemble each other, but the one from TTT has so much more behind it, IMVHO.

Mariol: those comparison montages are just wonderful (as were the earlier ones you posted, which I think I forgot to mention.)

As I study them (As an art historian, I am, literally, a professional image comparer :p ), I am struck not only by the amazing way that Elijah Wood conveys different states of being in very similar physical arrangements, but also by the way Peter Jackson has composed the images to echo each other. I mean, how heartbreaking is it to see party-Fro pushing Sam into the arms of his beloved compared to Black Gate Fro protecting Sam from the (female?) warriors who were looking for him? IMHO, Jackson has purposely set up these echoes to enhance the angst, the very meaning of his film. He set up the similar camera angles and compositions, after all, even if Elijah Wood had the craft and depth to convincingly embody the different moments in each composition.

Which reminds me of the "theory of camera angles" that one of our colleagues once developed. Was it you erendis? Do these comparisons fit into any of the specific camera angles that you identified?

I can't remember the specifics (age, I guess:rolleyes: ), so it occurs to me that perhaps the Faculty should create a compendium of such "research" tools as mariol's comparisons, tg's and other's screencaps, Deluby and Blossom's gifs, and items like the camera angles to aid other researchers in their studies. :)

Of course! What better task for the Faculty than to create an Encyclopedia?! ;) :p

Originally posted by peaceweaver
I am struck not only by the amazing way that Elijah Wood conveys different states of being in very similar physical arrangements, but also by the way Peter Jackson has composed the images to echo each other. I mean, how heartbreaking is it to see party-Fro pushing Sam into the arms of his beloved compared to Black Gate Fro protecting Sam from the (female?) warriors who were looking for him? IMHO, Jackson has purposely set up these echoes to enhance the angst, the very meaning of his film. He set up the similar camera angles and compositions, after all, even if Elijah Wood had the craft and depth to convincingly embody the different moments in each composition.
Do you think the echoes are really deliberate on PJ's part, or did he choose those particular scenes out of zillions of takes because he liked how they looked, and subconsciously chose ones that were similar? It just seems that there was so much footage shot (and there were, what, four or more scenes being shot simultaneously much of the time?) that PJ probably didn't remember every shot he had taken. (During re-shoots I can imagine that some shots might deliberately echo shots from earlier movies, but it's possible that some of the TTT and RotK shots were filmed before the FotR ones...)

It seems that, given the sheer amount of footage, echoes are less likely to be deliberate than for a painter.

Mel

Mariole, the comparisons are wonderful! :) I'd like to ponder some more whether the similarities and scene echos were all done on purpose, but it's getting awfully late here now, and I'm having trouble thinking at all. :o

2 FotR scenes that I always believed *must have been* set up to mirror each other on purpose, though: Frodo and Sam in the woods of the Shire when Gandalf rides off; Sam looks to Frodo, who looks ahead.... and the final scene of FotR where they face Emyn Muil, the Marshes and Mordor. Sam looks to Frodo, Frodo looks ahead. The position of the characters and their expressions are quite similar, I believe.

TorN just put up a link to Ian McKellens "White Book" which he's just updated today after going to NZ to do reshoots, and seeing a rough cut of RotK sans special effects. Do read the whole update, of course, but here are a couple of *very* relevant quotes from there:As for Gandalf, his parental concern for Frodo reminds us that The White hasn’t erased the humanity of The Grey and the Walsh/Boyens additions are as much concerned with that sort of emotional clarity as with plot details.Elijah Wood’s performance deepens and ripens, but all the hobbits have their acting chances and run with them.

Mariol - I must add my thanks to the general appreciation of your brilliant Frodo comparison collages. Like estella, I also had been toying with the idea of posting comparison pics to portray the very steep character arc that is happening with Frodo. I ended up with far too many from FOTR alone, and then couldn't decide which to use, so shelved the project altogether. Yours work really well, and emphasize the change in Frodo far better than mine would have anyway. Thanks again.:) Hope you're feeling better now.

For me, Frodo's character arc is the most interesting aspect of the book and the films. I would go so far as to say - having read LOTR countless times over the years - that thus far Film Frodo moves me more - if that's possible - than Book Frodo. Elijah's Frodo is younger, appearing more innocent and carefree at the beginning of the film story, and this - for me anyway - somehow makes his subsequent deterioration all the more tragic. In FOTR alone, Frodo changes almost beyond recognition. When he waits on the flet in Lothlorien while Aragorn is pleading with Haldir, Frodo's guilt, grief and despair just reach out and touch my heart - and he doesn't say a word! This is Elijahs great strength as an actor - not that I need point it out here - the ability to convey very deep and complex emotions visually. The very short shot of Frodo walking immediately after the flet scene - it must last only a few seconds - gets me every time. His expression there is utter dejection. His obvious sense of loss, self-blame and sheer physical and mental weariness in this single shot makes me want to put my arms around him and say, 'This is NOT your fault!' He is already a noticably different Frodo at this point, and it's only about two thirds through the first film.

Maeg. I had just been reading Sir Ian's latest addition to The White Book over at Torn too. I love the, 'Elijah Wood's performance deepens and ripens,' quote. ROTK HAS to be Frodo's film. Or will it be handed to Aragorn, he being the 'King' of the title? It just worries me - the amount of material they have to get through - I want as much Frodo as possible in this one.

Ainon - so sorry you didn't enjoy 'Try 17.' I would like to see Elijah play comedy - haven't seen CofF or 'Try 17,' but I do agree with Tg regarding Elijah's Casey and Huck Finn. Also Nat in 'Forever Young' has some well-played fun moments. 'I AM a geek,' in the library, and the onion-chopping tearful smile come to mind. I DO love the angst, though!

Hobmom - It's a bit late, but yes - ditto - me too - to your lovely post on what makes Elijah so special.

Regarding the fandom. Mine is mostly restricted to the computer. My desktop pic is the divine B/W Frodo, and I have my screensaver set up for random pics from my pictures folder - all of them either Frodo, Frolijah or Elijah. I have a Two Towers calendar up in the kitchen, which is currently on June, but with January's picture of Frodo - covering Gimli. With no more Frodo for the rest of the year I think that the January pic will be staying exactly where it is! DVD's and video's of Elijah's films are altogether in full view, and easily accessible. I did have that lovely Frodo with Sting pic on my tee shirt - the one hubby so kindly did especially for my birthday - but I put it in the washing machine, and now Frodo is flaking off!:eek: Typical of me!

Great posts everyone.

I'm late with this response but have finally caught up with the recent posts. Interesting to learn how everyone got here. Many experiences correspond with mine. But am tempted to add my own tale anyhow, especially 'cause it shows how effective PJ/Online publicity was from the start in engaging the lotr readership.

One winter night early in 2001, I pulled the burgundy and gold gift volume of LOTR from my living room book shelf. Decades old, the volume had rarely if ever been opened and still smelled new. Many years and youth had passed since my last reading of it (and even more years since I'd last mentioned it to anyone) but some fleeting memory had me opening the book to a random page in the Fellowship and straight-away tears came. Only solution was to sit down and turn to the first page...
Next day, expecting company, I replaced the book in its case on the shelf to tidy up. No one had ever approached the book in the past, but that night one of my guests went right over and pulled it down. "You've read this?" he asked. My heart raced at the possibility of resurrecting a beloved subject. "Yes!" I said (lotr-free for so long, I didn't even sound sheepish). "You? Did you like it?" "Of course!" was the answer. And, even better, he wanted to buy the gift set for his teen-aged son who was already a devotee. We went on to discuss other books of great influence on our lives and he named The Last Temptation of Christ - an interesting progression, I now think (after plumbing lotr's depths on these boards :p).
Back at work Monday morning, having buried the weekend's musings, I walked into a colleague's office with a question and, over his shoulder, I glimpsed his PC desktop - silver-white letters on a black background - Lord of the Rings. What a coincidence! Had to speak up and ask how-? where-? He told me about the movie then, sent me a link to the Web site (and to TORN) and it all began - the sudden unfurling of pathways leading in all directions, past and future.
In fact though, I didn't race to the Web site, for fear of letting some shallow Hollywood interpretation destroy that old foundation I still depended on deep down. But something about those familiar gothic letters drew me in, not to mention my colleague's optimism about the film. One concern occupied me above all others - Frodo, how would they cast Frodo? Who could play him? (Second, of course, was how they would convey the overall power and beauty of the story itself.) The movie Web site impressed me immediately. New Zealand... the Shire... Hobbiton, it looked/felt remarkably right!
After some time and several feints, I finally located a Frodo pic - Frodo and Sting. Only clicked 'n closed as I didn't want to risk seating a 'false' image in my mind. Didn't know the actor or his films, but took that as a good thing. Still, he looked awfully young...
The next pic changed everything - the one of Frolijah, sitting on the ground in waist coat and britches, hands clasped around knees, apparently in conversation. Chills ran up my spine. "No! It can't be!" I thought. Frodo had just stepped out of my head onto my computer. Yup, little cleft in the chin, curly brown hair, furry feet, pleasing features, thoughtful expression, compact little body, and those incredibly elivish eyes! Where did they find this guy? One more pic - the four hobbits en guard at Weathertop, Frodo in front but perfectly terrified - and captivating. Now I had to hear his voice. Surfed for a list of EW movies (had not heard of him). Picked the Ice Storm to watch, and concluded, yeah, I think this guy could be incredible....
I was sunk by then, of course - memorized nearly a dozen URLs which I checked for news every day, started a folder (innocuously named 'fb') for pic downloads, and bought a lovely book mark with 'Frodo Lives' in uncial lettering on parchment which hangs on my office wall. To this day, that's the only displayed sign of my obsession. Of course my home computer is stashed with lotr fics, Web site favorites, and more downloaded pics. The burgundy book (my everday PBs long gone) flagged to mark intriguing passages and my usual scattering of notebook pages are the only other evidence - oh, and an entire VCR/DVD collection devoted exclusively to LOTR and Ice Storm. :D Fact is, while I still find the book superior to the movie, the movie has recharged the book and our thoughts on it.

So ends my confession (which I may delete before the night's through). Sorry for running on so.

naiad, now don't go deleting your tale there! :k I think what's so wonderfully special about LOTR is that we can all reminisce about our 'first time' ;) and that if we loved the story then, then we always have the story with us. The characters are never forgotten, and the fact that these movies exist now is also such a special thing that could never ever possibly be over-rated! And I know what you mean about MovieFrodo, Blossom. There're BookFrodo moments that I never reread and don't mind never rereading, but there's not a single MovieFrodo scene that I wouldn't want to rewatch, that I could bear to see cut out, or that never touches me even after the n-th rewatch. And that flet scene you mentioned is remarkable for another reason too IMO - that even in the re-edit version Frodo is still entirely silent all the way after Moria. That fact doesn't change between versions. :cool:

When it comes to rewatching movies though, well, I was a latchkey kid so rewatching any old movie was something to do while alone at home. I'm used to rewatching stuff. ;) That said, LOTR is a unique rewatch experience, and not just because of how determined I was to get as much rewatching as I could get done in the theatres where LOTR deserves to be seen. ;) With LOTR I had to keep going, to see it again and again. The DVDs are sheer magic of course, and my Frodo-centricness ensures I'll always be skipping non-Frodo scenes, but I can't say that I skip those scenes because I don't like them - it's because I just need to keep my eyes on Frodo. Y'know? :)


Originally posted by BLOSSOM
Maeg. I had just been reading Sir Ian's latest addition to The White Book over at Torn too. I love the, 'Elijah Wood's performance deepens and ripens,' quote. ROTK HAS to be Frodo's film. Or will it be handed to Aragorn, he being the 'King' of the title? It just worries me - the amount of material they have to get through - I want as much Frodo as possible in this one.


One of the first quotes I heard/read from PJ when I started my on-line research post-FotR was that Frodo is the hero of LOTR. I can't begin to tell you how overjoyed I was to know that was the approach the moviemakers are taking. :) Still, LOTR is an ensemble so all those other characters need their time too - fair is fair. Shoot. :p I'm sure if I'd been rereading Book 3 and 5 through the years I'd get a hang of that idea. :D But that's why TTT was a wonderful wake-up call for me, because suddenly, after years and years, I was reminded that LOTR isn't just about Frodo and Sam -- it's about all of them, and how all those separate groups of individuals' actions helped lead to the final outcome. And hey ... IMVHO there can never be too much Frodo ... and there can never be too much Aragorn either. ;)


Thanks for the heads-up about Sir Ian's post, Maeg! I love that quote too, especially because Sir Ian just came right out and said it! He wasn't referring to anything, or replying to anyone. He didn't even have to say it. But he did. :) This is gonna be sooo good; I just know it.


Mariol, once again, your analyses are greatly appreciated and so darned heart-achingly perfect. Encore! Please? :k

estella, hope you'll feel better soon. Or you get more DVD time soon. Whichever you prefer. :D

Blossom - surely there must be a way to rescue Frodo from flaking! :eek: :p

Originally posted by Blossom: This is Elijahs great strength as an actor - not that I need point it out here - the ability to convey very deep and complex emotions visually. The very short shot of Frodo walking immediately after the flet scene - it must last only a few seconds - gets me every time

Yes, I know what you mean about that scene Blossom - puts me in mind of another scene that demonstrates that ability perfectly - I don't mind admitting that this actually moves me to tears every single time I watch it - its when the Fellowship are about to leave Rivendell to start their journey and Gandalf says "we await the Ringbearer" - its the tentative (is that the right word?) way Frodo slowly turns and looks around, could anyone look more vulnerable than he did at that moment? In that brief scene he conveys the dawning of realisation of what he's about to do, nervousness, self-consciousness, fear - but fear combined with inner strength and determination. For that scene alone he deserves an Oscar. I really wish it had been in the theatrical version.

Thank you all for your kind words. It's brutal work, going through all this source material staring at Elijah's face -- which is probably why so many of us are doing it. Blossom, any time you want to contribute your thoughts, I'd love to see them.

Here's that view that Maeglian was talking about:

http://home.ricochet.com/mdes/limages/leavin.jpg

Is this a deliberate PJ "echo"? Votes, votes?

Spoilers for ROTK:
There's a scene of Frodo writing in the Red Book that made it to a few websites. This is clearly an echo of Bilbo doing the same at the beginning of the FOTR EE. But since it didn't make the theatrical cut, we don't know if it will make it to ROTK.
End Spoilers

Something I noticed about the FOTR vs TTT comparisons is that Frodo is definitely "wide-eyed" in the first set vs the second. He also looks thinner and sharper in the TTT pics -- again a wonder, as Tg points out that they shot out of sequence.

I'm loving the stories of how people came to this board or LOTR fandom. It makes me happy! :)

Blossom, thank you, I'm feeling better today. The down side is I have lots of work to catch up on!

Cheers to all!

Shireling- another scene that demonstrates that ability perfectly - I don't mind admitting that this actually moves me to tears every single time I watch it - its when the Fellowship are about to leave Rivendell to start their journey and Gandalf says "we await the Ringbearer" - its the tentative (is that the right word?) way Frodo slowly turns and looks around, could anyone look more vulnerable than he did at that moment? In that brief scene he conveys the dawning of realisation of what he's about to do, nervousness, self-consciousness, fear - but fear combined with inner strength and determination. For that scene alone he deserves an Oscar. I really wish it had been in the theatrical version. That describes my feelings exactly - well praised!
Shall go check on Ian's sayings now - thanks for the tips :k

Shireling, oh yes, that *is* a wonderful, heartbreaking little scene! :)


Naiad, thanks for sharing your tale of getting to know the movie project and how it enhances the book appreciation, I'm glad you didn't delete that! :)


ainon, or Shireling, now that you've had more time to digest the film, are there any more comments or opinions you'd like to make regarding Try 17? Any "little things you liked?" :)

(Following the Adam Sandler comparison, my mind connected the dots in strange ways; - the hairstyle of the "Wedding singer's" is somewhat equal to Frodo's, you know, - so now I'm picturing an over-the-top sadly, tearfully and smarmily singing Frodo. :eek: :rolleyes: )


Mariol, thank you for the comparison pics! They are actually less alike in expression than I remembered; - this gives me an excellent excuse to scrutinize the film one more time! :) (Like I need an excuse....)

Yet looking at the two pictures, with the placement of the characters and the backstory being so similar: Isn't it wonderful how the different expressions seem to convey subtly different states of mind in situations that are otherwise very alike? In the earliest picture of the two, worry, fear, confusion and uncertainty at what lies ahead seem to have the upper hand in both their minds. While in the second, where the situation is in fact far more dire, their expressions seem to convey trust, caring, and strong acceptance that though they are likely to face a grim fate, they'll face it together. It's as if in the second they've faced the horrible reality of the vague fears they had in the first, and have come out strong and determined on the other side. (If that makes sense at all..... :o )

Looking at *all* the comparison pics, I would hazard the guess that some of them are very deliberate set up "echos" or nuances of the same, while others result from situations where "The tale of the movie grew in the telling", ie. the similarities weren't deliberately sought from the get-go, but developed in the filming process and so unexpectedly served to enrich the film. And finally, some were just more or less unavoidable in scenes where 2 characters are going through many situations that are relatively similar, as far as outward action is concerned. Now, how to pick the scenes where the similarities were a willed and intentional director's choice from the get-go: Probably not possible..... I guess not even PJ could say for sure, anymore.

Mariol - Beautiful pics, thanks! And Maeglian, to you also for your interpretations. I imagine the pair of shots were not intentional but imerged as a natural contrast as you described them - like components of artistic works (or natural ones!) often do.

Ainon - You're right it's gratifying to see the shared praise and love for the original story and to learn how that's expressed in the movie. Except, I differ on one opinion. Much as I love Frolijah, I could never say he moves me MORE than book Fro, nor that "There're BookFrodo moments that I never reread and don't mind never rereading." I adore (as in worship) every single word, line, and the spaces inbetween of book Fro (and most of the other lines in the book as well). Of course, the movie's still awsome and beautiful in its own right. :D

Visited Ian M's White Book over at TORN. Love the way he writes. For some reason, just this was touching: But no sooner was I flying to Los Angeles (en route for Sydney and Wellington) than the play began to fade and the movie took over, for the last time. (Sniffle...) And his closing para is delightful where he's so matter-of-fact about trying to nail his lines.

But does anyone have a clue what Sir Ian might be saying here?
... there was an ample crowd of hirsute soldiers to mill about behind us, as Viggo and I did our last scene together, worrying as usual back at base camp whilst Frodo and Sam climbed up Mount Doom and Sauron set his eye on Minas Tirith. Are the guys worried about F&S filming ontop of some treacherous outcrop?

It made me sad reading his account though - his descriptions of all the actors fulfilling their last commitments and departing. I picture poor EW acting out the slowly dying Frodo as all the others move on. Hopefully, at least Sean or even Andy S. will hang in there with him til the end. As for us, surely December won't REALLY mark the end of all that's been started - the discussions, the fics, pics and so on. And what about an SE edition of ROTK??? Any one heard of such?

As is Sean Bean's Boromir. Very fine man there too. Even dies very nicely.

Ainon: I still feel weepy at this scene. Man, that Boromir just does not give up.

tg, don't loathe me, but I was one of the Why Did He Pick That Boy for Frodo people. (But I didn't abuse him on the internet: how mean to put that in print). EW just seemed so young, and too beautiful. Yet his performance certainly converted me and the last doubts vanished at by Rivendell: I was sold. And still am, hence my presence here. :)

Hi Viola. :)

IMHO, Jackson has purposely set up these echoes to enhance the angst, the very meaning of his film.

Yes. I agree totally peaceweaver. In fact I think Jackson is a bit of a control freak and this explains at least some of the reshoots. (please God let me be wrong about the rest of the reshoots.)

ps. Fish left behind. Except one . Tossed at mariol... suits me...????Huh. ;)
I've been trying to find the "girding your loins " quote in the Bible but can't and don't dare ask my (beloved) Dad because the sermon would never end. But I'm not insane. Its a literature reference I tell you. Yes. True. No fish obsession involved. Really! (save me tg.....)

"Stand firm therefore, having girded your loins with truth..." (St Paul's Epistle to the Ephesians 6:14).

First of all, a A Very Happy Birthday, Narya! ---- whether you read this now or later :) .

Originally posted by naiad
But does anyone have a clue what Sir Ian might be saying here?

quote:
-------------------------------------------------------
... there was an ample crowd of hirsute soldiers to mill about behind us, as Viggo and I did our last scene together, worrying as usual back at base camp whilst Frodo and Sam climbed up Mount Doom and Sauron set his eye on Minas Tirith.
--------------------------------------------------------

Are the guys worried about F&S filming ontop of some treacherous outcrop?
Naiad, I'm sure he was talking about the characters and the storyline, not the actors and the filming. That is, Sir Ian meant he and Viggo were playing Gandalf and Aragorn worrying about Frodo and Sam. -- Although there might have been a bit of worry about Elijah and Sean during the main filming, when they spent six weeks shooting Mount Doom scenes on a live volcano :eek: .

...As for us, surely December won't REALLY mark the end of all that's been started - the discussions, the fics, pics and so on. And what about an SE edition of ROTK??? Any one heard of such?
An SE of each movie was promised when the first one came out. PJ said there will end up being two complete LotR films: the one viewers will get if they watch the theatrical version movies end-to-end, and the the one they'll see if they watch the SE movies end-to-end. In the SE film, there might be references back to things that happened in an earlier SE but not in the theatrical version. Quite an amazing project, IMHO, just trying to keep the two intact and integrated. From that, I've got a couple of thoughts about the upcoming SE's. They are only speculations, so aren't technically spoilers, but I'll mark them anyway:




TTT and RotK SE speculations






The first one doesn't involve Frodo, but since I'm on the subject: This one I'm less optimistic about actually seeing, but I'm hoping that in the TTT SE we'll get the context of Gimli's "Give me your name, horsemaster, and I will give you mine..." which IMHO doesn't really make much sense in the theatrical version. But in the TV of FotR, we didn't learn about Gimli's infatuation with Galadriel, so the context wouldn't make any sense to those who haven't seen the FotR SE (or, of course, read the book ;) ).

The other one is based on the scene that Mariol mentioned, with Frodo writing at the desk in Bag End. I may be disappointed, but I'm expecting that we'll see that in the RotK SE, since that's the version where we saw Bilbo doing the same thing. It could certainly be fit into the story in the TV, but it wouldn't provide the "bookend" there that it would for the SE.







End of TTT and RotK SE speculations



And I certainly hope the discussions will continue for a long time past December! :)

So much to catch up on, I can't respond to everything, but since I'm on the SE's: When the "spoilers" first came out about the leaving-Rivendell scene that Shireling mentions, I (and many other people posting about it) were unhappy because we thought the idea of Frodo having to ask Gandalf for directions would make him look less than intelligent. But when I heard that Frodo's specific words were "Which way to Mordor," I was much more hopeful about it, and the final product is beautiful, IMHO.

So, you see, Prim :) , I have nothing against converts ;) :) . (BTW, I know the "gird your loins" phrase is used several times in the Bible when someone's being told basically to "get out there and do it"--but I can't think of a specific one at the moment. [Edit: Ah, I see Brunhild beat me with one, anyway :) .] However, as far as I can recall, throwing fish into the picture is your original contribution ;) :D .)

Although there might have been a bit of worry about Elijah and Sean during the main filming, when they spent six weeks shooting Mount Doom scenes on a live volcano. :eek: I just want to briefly pop in here and say how much I admire EJW and SA for that. Imagine those 6 weeks for the 2 of them! Up at 5 AM, hours upon hours spent in feet&makeup, being made to look like they're close to dying, getting themselves into character to act sheer and horrible physical and mental agony and despair.... and then probably stumbling off to bed after the day's work, completely exhausted, knowing that tomorrow, we get to do this all over again!

I have really enjoyed reading the posts from the last few days – wonderful insights, and lots to look forward to {{{Faculty}}}

I don't have time now to comment on everything, but I would like to chip in a little on mariol’s wonderful comparison pictures: I think that the blocking of characters seems to follow a pattern in those scenes where they are speaking one-to-one. Possibly it started out as a mechanically deliberate thing, in terms of camera angles and what not, so that you could see the full response of both actors – these are very close up shots, which allow you to see the full faces of both actors. It was used quite noticeably in FOTR: Frodo standing just a little in front, Sam looking on. I also noticed in TTT, and not just with Frodo and Sam. You can also see it in the scene between Pippin and Merry (following the Entmoot).

But it has the effect that peaceweaver noted: a sharp (and angsty) juxtaposition of the contrasting emotional states, made particularly noticeable from the similarities in physical composition.

While the positions are slightly different, I’d like to add this scene from Rivendell – another moment when Frodo and Sam are speaking, but not face to face. It might not add anything to the current discussion, but it’s still a nice picture.:)


http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-6/249376/rivendell.jpg


(It wasn’t the approaching ‘flu I was feeling, it was an approaching migraine. No DVD watching for me, unfortunately :()

Happy Birthday, Narya! :k




Originally posted by Maeglian
(Following the Adam Sandler comparison, my mind connected the dots in strange ways; - the hairstyle of the "Wedding singer's" is somewhat equal to Frodo's, you know, - so now I'm picturing an over-the-top sadly, tearfully and smarmily singing Frodo. :eek: :rolleyes: )

IIRC Sandler wasn't the smarmy one. But oh, great, thank you Maeg, for associating Frodo with a mullet-crowned wedding singer! I'm never gonna get these 80s songs as sung by a drunk hobbit (don't ask) outta my head now! :trouts Maeg: :p



TTT and RotK SE speculations


Replying to tg -



... in the TTT SE we'll get the context of Gimli's "Give me your name, horsemaster, and I will give you mine..." which IMHO doesn't really make much sense in the theatrical version.

It made sense to me. What'd I miss? :confused:



The other one is based on the scene that Mariol mentioned, with Frodo writing at the desk in Bag End. I may be disappointed, but I'm expecting that we'll see that in the RotK SE, since that's the version where we saw Bilbo doing the same thing. It could certainly be fit into the story in the TV, but it wouldn't provide the "bookend" there that it would for the SE.

Well, it needn't be a bookend. If all it needs to show is Frodo finishing up his part of the book, so that he can pass it on to Sam, then that fits the TV just fine. Even better - people who don't watch the SEEs will immediately know that that's Frodo and not some random hobbit writing in his den. ;) Anyway, arty angsty bookendings aside, I think it shouldn't be any trouble to build a sense of finality there for the TV.





End of TTT and RotK SE speculations




Great 'echo' comparison, Mariol! I'm not voting though. ;) If PJ did these echoes on purpose and he says so, fine. If he didn't, then fine. I just wanna sit back and watch and know how things were done, if them folks'll tell me. :) Anyway, I would have said what estella said, but estella says it better, with a lovely screencap. :k

(The migraine sucks, estella. :( *gentle hug* )




On topic in an Ang Lee who was Elijah's director in 'Ice Storm' way --- I've seen 'Hulk', and I recommend it to anyone who doesn't mind watching an arty interpretation of a comic book hero. 'Ice Storm' had that comic book theme running through it too, come to think of it. Check out the split screens and alternate angles on one screen effects. And 'Hulk' drips angst everywhere. Which conveniently ties me back on topic: let's hope Elijah gets to work with Ang Lee again some time in the near future. :D Btw, I'd say the Hulk is gonna be fierce competition for Gollum come the next MTV Movie Awards, unless the WETA guys top this. (come on, Richard Taylor - I know you can do it!) It's really astounding how fast CGI technology is moving!


Hiya Prim - check your PMs in a bit, please? :) Oh, and I meant to say HIYA to Viola too! :k Luth, you lurking with us?

Originally posted by ainon

TTT and RotK SE speculations




It made sense to me. What'd I miss? :confused:
Well, I just didn't see why Gimli responded that way; the being-surrounded-by-horsemen-carrying-pointy-things (which also happens in the book) would be seen as an expected precaution, IMHO, and not hostility--if the Rohirrim were being seen as openly hostile, it would have been a really stupid thing to say :eek: . As Eomer says in the book, it should be the stranger who first identifies himself in that type of a situation (unknown intruders at the border of a country during wartime, especially since the enemy has been sending out spies). But in the book, Gimli says the line after the conversation has proceeded a ways, and Eomer has just said some not very nice things about Galadriel :eek: -- and you can imagine how Gimli reacted to that!! Legolas' reaction is exactly as in the book, where it's one of the signs of their growing friendship.

So, basically, for me the line just seemed to drop out of nowhere. Maybe if I hadn't known the actual context, it wouldn't have seemed so much that way--that is, if I didn't know that the line is really in response to Eomer's remarks about Galadriel. Later: And now I'm wondering if I'm remembering that correctly--will have to check when I get home.






End of TTT and RotK SE speculations


Which conveniently ties me back on topic: let's hope Elijah gets to work with Ang Lee again some time in the near future. :D
Yes, definitely. From what Elijah said about the process they went through together to find out who Mikey was and how he would act, it sounds as if Ang Lee was a very good director for him--Like PJ, didn't let him get by with "good," when he was capable of "phenomenal." IMO, that really shows in the quality of Elijah's acting in The Ice Storm. ---- A somewhat related question: does anyone know if, in his two dozen+ movies, Elijah has ever worked with the same director more than once (not counting PJ, of course)? I can't think of anyone, but I haven't paid attention to who directed most of his movies.

Btw, I'd say the Hulk is gonna be fierce competition for Gollum come the next MTV Movie Awards, unless the WETA guys top this. (come on, Richard Taylor - I know you can do it!) It's really astounding how fast CGI technology is moving!
Weta's gotten into the situation where it's probably going to start competing against itself for awards :cool: ! I don't know who did the special effects for The Hulk, but I've heard that Weta's working on those for the seafaring movie Billy Boyd's making, and it's already being called a possible Oscar contender. Not surprising that they're "finding work" after what they've done with LotR :) ! And they seem to be the type of people who're going to try to top themselves each time out!

Last night I was looking at the scene where Gollum first comes upon Frodo and Sam and they get into the "big fight scene"--Talk about incredible! Especially the physical interaction between Gollum and Sam. It was mind-boggling to watch that bit where Gollum wraps his limbs around Sam--while trying to keep in mind that Gollum isn't really there. IMHO, the most amazing part of Gollum isn't the creature himself, but the way he interacts with the surroundings and other characters. With the progress being made, The Hulk probably does that as well or better, though.

-----One reason the effects in FotR blew everyone away was that it did so many things that not only hadn't been done before, but hadn't been thought possible until those creative Kiwis came along and figured out how to do them. But now that moviegoers know this kind of stuff is possible, they're going to be expecting to see it. If Gollum had never hit the screen, I'm guessing the Hulk wouldn't be quite as amazing as he is, because his creators wouldn't have felt they had to (or even could) reach that level. ---- How long til King Kong :p ?

Prim! You gave me my very first trout ever. :cool: I feel so special! (That is supposed to be the purpose of the trout, right?) * Mariole, with quivering lip, hugs the trout to her chest in a pathetic (and somewhat smelly) display *

I'm loving all the ROTK and TTT EE speculations. I agree, it will be fun to see the TTT EE and look for echoes that are present only in the EE for LOTR.

By all means, let EW continue to work with good (demanding) directors. There is also the problem of scripts -- so hard to find a good one. After "Butch Cassidy," Paul Newman and Robert Redford reportedly used to drop by William Goldman's house to see what was on his typewriter. The two liked to work together, but there was also an air of competition -- see who could get to the new script first. I guess Robert Redford dropped by a bit more often.

The following is all Maeg's fault. She mentioned that she would need to review FOTR for echoes. Alas, I was sucked in, and spent a couple of hours on disk 2 last night. I replayed the following scene and found couple of occasions that are not only echoes, but also character development (see, I'm improving!)

Nuclear Galadriel vs. Stinker

http://home.ricochet.com/mdes/limages/desp.jpg

I like the element of anger in these. For Glads, it's like, "Hey, you're supposed to be on my side -- and here you are lighting all up like Chernobyl on a bad day because you've been harboring unclean thoughts about the Ring, so I still get to walk into certain death, thank you so very much." So there's hurt and betrayal mixed in there as well.

With Gollum, it's sort of like, "Yeah, I'm full of adrenalin because I've now resigned myself to certain death, and here you're gabbing about a secret path to Mordor. Like, you couldn't have mentioned that before?" Here there is clearly mistrust and reluctance -- after amping himself up, to back down and choose another path at this late point is very hard to reconcile himself to.

Expect the Unexpected

http://home.ricochet.com/mdes/limages/freak.jpg

I chose this pair for their similarity in expression, although they don't quite match. In the first, Frodo is processing his post-Galadriel freak-out experience. The hurt and betrayal is very clear to see, as well as his growing resignation to being stuck as the Bearer.

The Black Gate set shows his surprise as Gollum tries for the final time to call him back. I like this shot because it clearly shows his vulnerability -- he's not Iron Man Frodo without any doubts marching to certain death, he's resigned and scared-to-pieces Frodo who is mightily determined to do what he has to do, because he understands the consequences if he doesn't. His awareness of his inadequacy to the task, offset by his resolution to try anyway, makes his courage even more profound. This set of pics breaks my heart.

Protect your Master

http://home.ricochet.com/mdes/limages/paw2.jpg

Okay, maybe this set of pictures has nothing to do with character development. Maybe this collection is included simply because Mariole has a cloak-petting fettish. You be the judge!

See, Sam is protecting Frodo from harm (Pippin) by standing in the way and brushing dirt off his sleeve. And Gollum is protecting Frodo from harm (certain death) by clutching at his sleeve and pleading piteously to reconsider his course of action. See, it's almost exactly the same situation!

* Mariole ducks as a veritable barrage of trout are flung in her direction and whap her about the head and shoulders *

Estella, here's a cool, dark cloth for your headache. Cheers, all!

It’s Narya’s Birthday?? Happy Birthday and many happy returns of the day!! :)

Tg: I think you are correct about EW’s repeating (or not) with directors. A little visit to IMDB seems to confirm that, in fact, EW has not worked with the same director twice, with two exceptions: one is, of course, Peter Jackson and LoTR, which only counts if you don’t know that all three movies were filmed at the same time; the other possible exception is Barry Levinson. He directed and wrote (or “di-wrote” to use a term EW made up on Primetime Glick—I think it is quite a useful term for those “auteur” types, like Ed Burns and Woody Allen, although another syllable may need to be added to encompass “starring in” their own vehicles) Avalon when Elwood was 8 or 9, and then hired him for that “Homicide” role at 15 or 16. He is listed in the credits as Executive Producer, though, not director. So maybe that doesn’t really count.


Mariol: keep ‘em coming! Those comparisons are lovely to study. Really, they are!

((estella rose))

Anybody seen Deluby?

Thanks for the birthday wishes, dear Faculty! I am always here, though I seem to have become a very efficient lurker - so I appreciate being remembered!! I'm really enjoying the ongoing discussions, I just haven't had time to transcribe my own thoughts.

Love the pictorial comparisons, mariol!!

Mariol--Kinda hard to trout someone who posts great pics with interesting commentary and a sense of humor :) . You go, girl!

peaceweaver, thanks for the IMDb info. I'm wondering about people EJW would have actually received direction from, so the Homicide episode probably wouldn't "count." But at least Barry Levinson thought of Elijah years later, and thought enough of his acting to cast him.

--------

My main reason for being here is that I just ran across a website that tickled me to no end, and I had to talk about it :p ! I don't "surf the web" much--when I go online, I usually know where I'm going or at least what I'm looking for. But a stray click led me to a site called The Aerodrome, which is all about World War I aviation. I decided to check it out a bit, because when the LotR movie phenomenon pulled me back into writing nonfiction a couple of years ago, I was about half finished with a mystery novel set in 1939 in which the protagonist is a WWI Air Service veteran. His WWI background--which is something I'm not an expert in by any measure!--plays into the story. Although I've done quite a bit of research on it, I'm always looking for more info.

What does this have to do with the Faculty? These guys are SUCH GEEKS!! I just luv'em :k ! It's a bit strange--but somehow reassuring--to discover there are people out there who are every bit as geeky as we are, but on a completely different topic. There's a fairly active message board. I didn't even look at the forum on replica and model building. but in the "Other WWI Aviation Related" forum found thread titles such as "Bombing raid on Bissenhem 24 March 1918", "Heads up for anyone planning to visit the PRO", "The Blue Max on AMC", and "Effectiveness of observer fire vs. pilot's fire". We don't talk about those same topics, but don't they seem to cover some of the same range (geeky details, planned events and get-togethers, a topic-related movie showing up on a cable station, and a comparison of two different "methods" of doing something)?

These guys are even writing "The Aerodrome Novel," where one person writes a paragraph, someone else carries on from there,etc. Of course, it's about WWI pilots. What surprised me about this particular thread is that when I say "these guys," I truly mean "these guys"! I saw one member who didn't have M or F designated beside the avatar, but every other one was listed as male. I didn't know guys did things like progressive novel writing. But it probably comes from being familiar with role-playing games, which they have, too--just like in fantasy!

I'll probably go back sometime and post some specific questions I have, but if I tried to do that right now, I'd just end up gushing all over them :) !

I just have to share one post... This is too funny :D ! Remember these are guys:

[quoting the preceding post which is talking about someone's artwork] "We're talking nuts, bolts, fasteners, spokes, guns, engines, radiator types... oh, yeah and propellers. The propellers have to be seen!"

Okay I am drooolllling now. :) What bird will we see?

:D :D

Kindred spirits in an unexpected place :cool: .

"Stand firm therefore, having girded your loins with truth..." (St Paul's Epistle to the Ephesians 6:14).

Thanks Brunhild!!

:cool:

Happy Birthday Narya!!!:)

I wonder if a lot of these "echo" screen shots are just Andrew Lesnie repeatedly taking advantage of Camera Angel #1 and #2. :p

May I make an echo request? In FotR there is a scene where the WiKi walks menacingly toward Frodo, Morgul blade drawn. In TTT there is a scene where Faramir walks menacingly toward Frodo, Sword drawn. I'm sure this is entirely deliberate, to show that Frodo is equating Faramir with the Nazgul. I'd also like to compare the expression on Frodo's face. Since Elijah can expresss not only fear, but different types of fear, we should be able to tell from the face if Frodo's fear for Faramir is the same as his fear of the Wiki.

here's the Faramir cap to get started with...

Ooh ooh ooh....just interrupting to say the NZ Herald for today (god bless their boring conservative little socks) actually published the first still pic from the third movie!

It's Aragorn. Holding a very elegant sword hilt (Anduril I guess) in full chain mail. Good quality chain mail. None of the tatty Ranger stuff so this must be Aragorn in King-to -be mode. It's very cool and I totally have no way at all to show you. Dang. Never mind: bet its winging its way around the net as I type!

Prim--Do you mean this pic of Aragorn (http://www.lordoftherings.net/film/exclusives/rotkteaser/images/rotkteaser_poster.jpg)? :cool:

Originally posted by shireling
Yes, I know what you mean about that scene Blossom - puts me in mind of another scene that demonstrates that ability perfectly - I don't mind admitting that this actually moves me to tears every single time I watch it - its when the Fellowship are about to leave Rivendell to start their journey and Gandalf says "we await the Ringbearer" - its the tentative (is that the right word?) way Frodo slowly turns and looks around, could anyone look more vulnerable than he did at that moment? In that brief scene he conveys the dawning of realisation of what he's about to do, nervousness, self-consciousness, fear - but fear combined with inner strength and determination. For that scene alone he deserves an Oscar. I really wish it had been in the theatrical version.

Yes, Shireling. That's another one of my very favourite scenes too. I posted some gifs of that one here a while back, and your comments on what Frodo is feeling there, and how Elijah conveys those emotions so perfectly, and how it moves you so much, is exactly the way I see it, too. :)

Here's a little reminder:
http://www.imagemagician.com/images/blossom/RingbearerCol.jpg

Originally quoted by ainon:
Still, LOTR is an ensemble so all those other characters need their time too - fair is fair.

I know, I know. I don't mean to disregard the other performances. Of course it's a complex story, and all the other characters have a bearing on the outcome, and they all have their own varying character arcs. I think Merry and Pippin, in particular, will stand out in ROTK with regard to 'finding' their own strength and courage within themselves. That will be interesting to see, I think. And yes, Viggo IS a wonderful Aragorn - I would never dispute that, ainon, seeing as you like him so much!;) Also I was very impressed with Miranda Otto as Eowyn in TTT. And then there's Gollum, and the brilliant Ian McKellen as Gandalf, and I have loved Sean Astin's Sam since the first time he looked at Frodo in that 'I love him, whether or no,' way he has. So there are notable performances all round, and I DO appreciate and recognize that - it's just - Elijah IS Frodo, and his performance is simply beautiful to watch. Like you, ainon, my copies of books three and five are in much better condition than four and six, and I still re-read all the book Frodo moments, but when you have him there on your TV screen in the flesh, (so to speak) it's difficult to take your eyes off him! :)

Mariol - keep those comparison pics coming - they're brilliant. The more I look at Tg's TT caps and thoughts, and your pics and comments, the more I want my copy of TTT DVD. It's been ages since I've seen it in the cinema - long gone - and all your observations on Elijah's Frodo and what is happening to him just make me want it NOW! :( Isn't it August yet?

Btw, Tg. Don't you go flying off to that WW1 site too often. You're needed here. It's good to know we're not the only people who delve so deeply into our subject. Now that book of yours sounds interesting.

Brunhild: Yup, but the newspaper version isn't so harshly cropped. I wonder why they cropped it like that for the poster????
Still, it's revived my (flagging) interest. Cool.
Aragorn looks remarkably clean too which is interesting. Frodo gets grimier and Aragorn cleans up. Hmmm.

Originally posted by erendis
I wonder if a lot of these "echo" screen shots are just Andrew Lesnie repeatedly taking advantage of Camera Angel #1 and #2. :p

May I make an echo request? In FotR there is a scene where the WiKi walks menacingly toward Frodo, Morgul blade drawn. In TTT there is a scene where Faramir walks menacingly toward Frodo, Sword drawn. I'm sure this is entirely deliberate, to show that Frodo is equating Faramir with the Nazgul. I'd also like to compare the expression on Frodo's face. Since Elijah can expresss not only fear, but different types of fear, we should be able to tell from the face if Frodo's fear for Faramir is the same as his fear of the Wiki.

here's the Faramir cap to get started with...

I've just put this together, erendis. I've enlarged Frodo from your pic, and combined this with some caps of Weathertop, which is what I think you are talking about regarding the Wiki approaching Frodo with drawn sword.

http://www.imagemagician.com/images/blossom/Fear.jpg

I think with Faramir he IS afraid - suspicious and distrustful, and there is the fact that the Ring has more of an effect on Frodo here - he doesn't want Farmair to have it. With the Wiki I think Frodo is simply terrified.

from erendis
I wonder if a lot of these "echo" screen shots are just Andrew Lesnie repeatedly taking advantage of Camera Angel #1 and #2.
I know if I were on site, I'd want to repeatedly take advantage. *happy sigh*

Well, I see that Blossom beat me to your request -- and with a far superior photo editor, I must say. (I only use Paint, and have no clue how to do an animated gif.) And dang dilly, here I wasted all this time doing an extensive photo comparison! At the risk of being redundant, I'll post the bits that I got together. (You know, these Two Towers comparisons will be much easier to do once tg gets her whole happy set posted. Until then, I'll have to make do with whatever pics I can find, although they don't always show the views I want or with sufficient clarity.)

Since Elijah can express not only fear, but different types of fear, we should be able to tell from the face if Frodo's fear for Faramir is the same as his fear of the Wiki.
Oh, yeah. IMHO very distinct fear types are visible. Blossom said it first (and with much greater brevity), but here's my long-winded approach that requires many more photos.

Waiting for Wiki

http://home.ricochet.com/mdes/limages/fer1.jpg

After spotting the WiKi down the hill, Frodo waits uneasily with growing anxiety. From Book I, "Frodo felt a cold dread creeping over his heart."


Surprised by Faramir

http://home.ricochet.com/mdes/limages/far1.jpg

Faramir walks in on the hobbits, surprising them. Frodo is startled, but to my eye shows more wariness than outright fear. It's not Faramir himself he fears, so much as the outcome of the encounter.


Wiki Approaches

http://home.ricochet.com/mdes/limages/fer2.jpg

As the Wiki first crests the hilltop, Frodo's dread turns into something more like despair. He knows this will be bad. As the Wiki descends the stairs (2nd shot), Frodo gets out his weapon in an act of defiance, but there's more going on in his face here. There's almost a kind of awe as the presence of the Witch King sweeps over him. Tg's shot of the "dead hobbit" on page 135 also demonstrates the overwhelming effect of the Nazgul.

As the WiKi gets closer (shot below), Frodo's fear intensifies, but the sense of awe is never totally absent. Blossom, I think we picked some of the same caps here!

http://home.ricochet.com/mdes/limages/fer3.jpg


The Enemy Closes In

http://home.ricochet.com/mdes/limages/far2.jpg

By the time the WiKi gets close to Frodo, he's already down. Many folks have joked about Frodo's falls in FOTR, but I think the sword dropping and subsequent retreat are PJ's attempt to reenact what Tolkien wrote about in Book V when the Nazgul fly over the city:

More unbearable they became, not less, at each new cry. At length even the stout-hearted would fling themselves to the ground as the hidden menace passed over them, or they would stand, letting their weapons fall from nerveless hands while into their minds a blackness came, and they thought no more of war, but only of hiding and of crawling, and of death.
And these are "invisible" Nazgul far overhead. Now put the king of 'em all right in Frodo's face, bending all of his malice on him, and with four of his goons backing him up. I think there's a fair argument for our poor hobbit to be overwhelmed. He drops his sword and crawls away in fear; that's what Nazgul do to people. (Not to mention that the other 3 hobbits just demonstrated the futility of a physical attack.)

In the "Faramir" view, there is definitely fear, but it's of a different kind. I sense wariness, and possibly some anger (more of that "You're supposed to be on our side" kind of thing). Some clearer screen caps might allow a better interpretation of this scene.


Up Against the Wall

http://home.ricochet.com/mdes/limages/far3.jpg

As Faramir comes closer, you can see (maybe, this is a horrible cap) that Frodo becomes more than just a little curious as to what Faramir is planning to do with that big ol' sword of his. But there's confusion and mistrust present, not just fear.

In the final shot of the WiKi approach, Frodo is still terrified. There's some defiance in him, but he's still seeking mostly to escape, and mistakenly thinks the Ring may help him to do so (I'm using my interpretation of Movie!Frodo here, rather than Book!Frodo yielding to the temptation to put on the Ring). For the defiant Frodo comeback, see the Weathertop sequence on tg's site.


Fighting Back

I just had to add these final pics of the Faramir-confrontation scene. As both Faramir and the WiKi close in, Frodo's enemy is clearly external; his focus is outward, and his actions and responses are largely shaped by the enemy.

http://home.ricochet.com/mdes/limages/far4.jpg

But once the Ring gets going, Frodo entirely forgets Faramir. His focus and attention are inward. The Ring calls, and his mind just goes away (in the 2nd view, it even looks like it hurts). There is no fear here, just the complete and overpowering call of the Ring. When Frodo comes back to himself, he smacks away Faramir's sword in anger. He knows who the real enemy is here, and he must be frustrated to pieces that Faramir is falling under its spell just as Boromir did. There is only so much patience that a hobbit having his mind and will sucked can take, and Faramir had just overstepped the international "enough" line.

http://home.ricochet.com/mdes/limages/far5.jpg

Mariol - I bow to your far superior set of caps - and comments - regarding Frodo's fear. Very insightful. Excellent comparisons there!:) Thanks. I just love looking at those, and reading your thoughts and take on what's happening. The book quotes you use are especially fitting, particularly, 'Frodo felt a cold dread creeping over his heart.' And the passage describing the awe, dread and fear which fell on others who came within the presence of the Nazgul. Superb! Your time spent on those was well worth it - what great work and research! I love it! I was just at a loose end earlier and saw erendis's post, and thought I'd have a try. But I think I'll leave it to you from now on, you're much better at it. Where's that 'I am not worthy' smiley when you need it?:D

Do you find playing about with those collages therapeutic? I do. And it's so nice looking at all those caps of Frodo/Elijah!:)

Just wanted to say. A BELATED HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO NARYA! I hope you had a lovely day. Don't lurk for too long Narya. I remember reading your brilliant posts on TTT when it was first released. I took so much from your comments, and tried to bear them all in mind when I went to see the film at the cinema myself. I'm looking forward to reading your thoughts on ROTK come December!

Oh, and ainon - I'm afraid Flakey Frodo is past saving!:eek:

Blossom and Mariole, you have me speechless! After reading and thoroughly looking at your research, my reactions are (*not* necessarily in consecutive order...):

* :notworthy: :)

* Desperate casting around for other scenes that could be requested for comparison and further research. Please keep it up! [begs] :cool:

* :swoon: :o Would you *look* at that second "Waiting for Wiki" pic that Mariole posted?

* Some coherent thoughts, after all:

Extremely interesting to see how these comparisons show the many variances and differences in acting and subtle emotional expression, in scenes that outwardly have very similar story content, have similar scene and character set-up, and that maybe even in viewer's mind have been catalogued as "very alike".

I greatly appreciated your comments about Frodo's reactions at Weathertop, Mariole. Very close to how I see that scene.

Also, I continue to be amazed by what I consider courageously subtle direction and acting in these various Frodo/wiki/Ring trance scenes. The emotions and mental processes and action are not explained in Capital Letters, nor spelled out in dialogue, and are open to a lot of interpretations. With the intensity of the action it's very easy to miss on a first or even multiple viewings what's really going on in the scenes. That Frodo manages to pull the Ring back at Weathertop, and what *that* signifies about him. That Frodo is fighting the Ring with all his will at HA, not just going into random catatonia and fear-induced hysterics.....


~~~~~~~~~~~~

tg, cool about the geeky plane afficionados. :)
I'll say, the internet has really contributed to enriching the lives of anyone with deep and abiding interests in a specific topic (unless it's soccer, in which case you needent go via the net, but can only walk onto the street and grab hold of any guy and most gals around, and thereby find a kindred spirit.)

Originally posted by Maeglian
Blossom and Mariole, you have me speechless! After reading and thoroughly looking at your research, my reactions are (*not* necessarily in consecutive order...):

* :notworthy: :)
Ditto, ditto, ditto :) .


* Desperate casting around for other scenes that could be requested for comparison and further research. Please keep it up! [begs] :cool:
Desperately wondering if I should be changing my screencap plans. Going on previous requests, I've gotten the Ring petting and the "Who are you?" scenes posted:

http://home.earthlink.net/~screencaps/

I have the Nazgul flyover caps processed but it will take awhile to get them posted. Would it be better if I switched gears and did something else first? I haven't even touched any scenes with Faramir. My time is pretty limited right now, so I'd like to use it in the most helpful way. Suggestions?

Also, I continue to be amazed by what I consider courageously subtle direction and acting in these various Frodo/wiki/Ring trance scenes. The emotions and mental processes and action are not explained in Capital Letters, nor spelled out in dialogue, and are open to a lot of interpretations.
Ditto here, too :) . Very fitting for translating Tolkien, IMHO. The Nazgul flyover is interesting in that respect, too. Is Sam representing the "everyman" or "every moviegoer" in this, possibly? He says, "You have to fight It" after so many of these events have already taken place. Is he "not getting it" at that point? If so, he seems to have learned something by the time they're with Faramir and he says, "It's such a burden."

Blossom and Mariole - wow! Thank you, to both of you! When you guys waste time, you come up with the most marvelous results! *hugs* Mariole, this bit you quoted from Book V:

More unbearable they became, not less, at each new cry. At length even the stout-hearted would fling themselves to the ground as the hidden menace passed over them, or they would stand, letting their weapons fall from nerveless hands while into their minds a blackness came, and they thought no more of war, but only of hiding and of crawling, and of death.

Oh wow. I bow before you, Mariole! Through all those endless arguments about Frodo's wimpiness at Weathertop, I don't believe anyone ever pointed out that Frodo's reaction fits with canon knowledge. :notworthy: Wow.

I beg along with Maeg ... please, keep it up! Both of you! I'll shameless jump in with a request: Frodo vs. Ring for the first time under the tree root in FotR, and Frodo vs. Ring in the Dead Marshes? Pleaaaaassseeeee? With whatever chocolate covered cherry double chocolate chip and everything nice on top?

Cloak-petting fetishes are nice. Always very nice. You can pet the cloak. Swirl the cloak. Nice cloak action. Give me Frodo's cloak and Frodo and I'll ... erm ... never mind. But uh ... Mariole, you've washed though, haven't you? That trout you've been hugging ...


-----------------------------------


edit: tg - I'm about to post and I see your post. Thank you! I'm still going through your newest screencaps. Interesting comment about Sam ... I don't think Sam doesn't get it, or he wouldn't have said "You have to fight it" and he wouldn't have made that plea to Faramir, even though he must have been afraid of the man too. The problem IMO is Sam doesn't know how he can help, and so in his earnestness he tries the obvious. I kinda think of it like on days when you're sick but you're stuck at work and can't go home yet, but then a friend helpfully says, "Maybe you wouldn't feel so bad if you were at home." :rolleyes:



tg, it's real cool to know that there're geeks of that sort out there, and they're not even nuts about movies or TV shows. :D Btw, and of course I would ask because this is the way my brain works, your WW I protagonist ... what's he like? ;)




TTT SE speculation stuff

So, basically, for me the line just seemed to drop out of nowhere. Maybe if I hadn't known the actual context, it wouldn't have seemed so much that way--that is, if I didn't know that the line is really in response to Eomer's remarks about Galadriel.

You're probably right. I didn't know the canon line had anything to do with Galadriel. :p In the context of the movie, with all those men surrounding our three heroes (who hadn't done anything at all to deserve such a corralling; they didn't even have their weapons out) and pointing them evil spears at 'em, and Eomer being haughty and all, well, heh, I'd guess no self-respecting Dwarf worth his beard is gonna let some puny-beard Man get away with it. That's what I love about Gimli. LOL.




/TTT SE speculation stuff





--------------------------



Interesting trivia about 'Try 17': Elizabeth Perkins, who played Elijah's mom in 'Avalon' plays his mom again in this movie, which makes it the first time Elijah worked with the same parent while being different offspring. Which piqued my curiosity to compare the two movies, except there aren't many 'Avalon' screencaps out there, and the ones available are only of Elijah. Which makes sense. Anyway, I could find only one press release pic that had little Elijah and his then-mother together.

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-6/93723/Resize150dgnmak.JPG


Jones Dillon & mom now - I put these two images from different shots together; there're no nice shots of Jones and his mom side-by-side. The two are in the same scene:

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-6/93723/PDVD_126.jpg


So any term to use when it's Froshadowing without involving Frodo at all? ;) Here're some Avalon to 17shadowings:

That hat!

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-6/93723/hat.JPG

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-6/93723/hat1.JPG

And having to accept that a farewell is due:

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-6/93723/avalontry17bye.JPG


Amongst the screencaps I could find there was this:

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-6/93723/avalon.jpg

once again, back to safe Froshadowing grounds. :)



I miss Deluby too. :k

Now, now. (Or as Sherlock Holmes says, "My blushes, Watson!") Thank you for your kind words, but this "not worthy" business doesn't seem right. I'm just relieved that you enjoy viewing the results of my mucking about. I've been feeling a bit hesitant to post my amatuer analyses. If it wasn't for tg's site, I never would have found this message board at all. Believe me, the appreciation is all on my side, for having found some intelligent and enthusiastic fans to share my current interest with.

On the plus side, I got a whole bunch of procrastination on my work project accomplished (:D), not to mention some new views of our fave actor to mull over. It's quite a win-win situation.

Tg, the latest caps of Frodo and Gollum are stunning. I wasn't too keen on the Ring-petting scene in the movie, I guess because my inner purist wouldn't let Frodo overtly lust after the Ring, but the subsequent Gollum stuff -- Wow! I missed it in the theatre, but the parallel body postures in your cap-by-cap analysis were chilling (as well as very beautiful composition-wise). It's as if Frodo is literally looking at a future version of himself, completely destroyed by the Ring. That could be part of his anger; that guilty sense that makes us strike out at others so that we don't have to examine our own behavior too deeply. (Although someone said at some point that Frodo never does pet the Ring again, so this conversation did serve to interrupt at least this attempt at seduction on the Ring's part.)

But the last frame of the series, when Frodo looks at Gollum "in a new way" -- CHILLS! Wow. My breath literally stopped. Well done, tg (and Elwood, of course)! Well done!

And Maeglian, all the screen caps I post are chosen strictly for their artistic merit. It's just our good fortune that there are heaps of merit lying about, just waiting for proper appreciation. *Thank you, PJ, for making these movies. Thank you thank you thank you*

from ainon
But uh ... Mariole, you've washed though, haven't you? That trout you've been hugging ...
Hey, this is my trout. I worked good and hard for this trout, and Prim gave it to me, and, and I'm keeping it! It is juicy, it is sweet, it is rreeeeeeeeeaaaaaalllly smelly at this point...

Wow, cool Avalon to 17shadowings! I think I will have to play these movies side-by-side at some point to revel in the parallelism.

I didn't really make the connection between Weathertop and Book V until I saw TTT, and realized that PJ likes to play fast and loose with who gets to perform what action, or say a certain line. (Or, as one of the parodies puts it, Treebeard grumbles to Merry about Galadriel: "Remind me to talk to her about line stealing.") For me one of the great weaknesses of PJ's Weathertop was Strider wandering off leaving the hobbits unprotected, vs. staying by and keeping them from fear. PJ's scene wasn't like the book. But's that's a topic for another thread.

I'm severely handicapped in the TTT screencaps dept. All I have are a few videos I downloaded and the trailer from the LOTR EE. Here's the best I could do with Ring seduction in the Black Marshes vs. Wooded Road. I flipped the Marshes view so the faces would match. They look pretty similar actually, but the Marshes view shows more vacuousness, as tg noted before. I can't wait until she gets her caps up!

http://home.ricochet.com/mdes/limages/ring.jpg

To make up for my previous shortcoming, here is one of my favorite cloak actions from Anon Hen: the Magic Angle in the Air! Great acting by, uh, Elijah's arm in this scene...

http://home.ricochet.com/mdes/limages/clo1.jpg

LOL! Yes, that cloak has a life and spirit of its own - no wonder everyone tries to touch it and caress it - never mind who's wearing it! :D


ainon - wonderful research and pictures there. Almost scary in a way, being able to follow someone from small kid to grown-up like that.

Hmmmm..... Woodshades, could that be the word we're looking for?


tg, I'd like to echo Mariole in WOW!-ing over the Frodo/Gollum postures. Chilling allright. I also like the Ring-petting scene (as I guess I might have mentioned before :rolleyes: ), and that is partly because it demonstrates just how deep an obsession / attraction that the Ring is working into Frodo's mind, and which Frodo still manages to quench and get under control once he realizes what's going on..... courtesy of Gollum.


Re. wishes for possible new comparisons, I was thinking about possible comparisons (and caps) from scenes where Frodo has just gone through some very traumatic experience, and stays silent; - only expressing his emotions through face and body language. For instance, when he's waiting for Aragorn and Haldir to finish their discussion on the Lothlorien flet, or immediately after, when walking in file through the sunny Lothlorien woods, or when Faramir utters those famously enigmatic words about understanding each other and "letting them go".

I would stress that it is the tremendous acting and, of course, that strictly artistic merit Mariole mentions that lead me to suggesting such scenes. Hobmom just posted the following in the harem, which emphazises these factors especially well:
http://www.angelfire.com/celeb2/elijahw/tttcap_1174.jpg

Hey, this is my trout. I worked good and hard for this trout, and Prim gave it to me, and, and I'm keeping it! It is juicy, it is sweet, it is rreeeeeeeeeaaaaaalllly smelly at this point...

Um, Mariol, sweetie....I think you can let the trout go now -it's ok, really, you can let it go....I'm sure Prim will get you another one if you keep working hard. Just let the trout go (preferably burying it deep in the back garden ;) ......)

I second all the thanks for the pics -blossom, mariol and ainon. How do we keep finding new ones!! (not that I'm complaining :D )


I'm off to the NZ herald web site to see if anything else is there :D

...and the reminders to book ahead for your copy of TTT came out today...roll on the 26th of august :D :D

viola

sniff sniff............phew...that trout *smells* (mariol :k )

Originally posted by mariol3b3
I wasn't too keen on the Ring-petting scene in the movie, I guess because my inner purist wouldn't let Frodo overtly lust after the Ring...
That's why I was kind of interested to see a slight foreshadowing of the Osgiliath expression there--as if Frodo isn't completely in control. But since he doesn't engage in Ring petting again, maybe this helped him to realize that he can't let even that much control slip away.

It's just our good fortune that there are heaps of merit lying about, just waiting for proper appreciation.
Oh, my, yes :) !

Hey, this is my trout. I worked good and hard for this trout, and Prim gave it to me, and, and I'm keeping it! It is juicy, it is sweet...
Yes, but is it r-r-a-w-w and w-w-r-r-r-iggling? :D (If not, the juicy and sweet may be a bit in question at this point... ;) .)

For me one of the great weaknesses of PJ's Weathertop was Strider wandering off leaving the hobbits unprotected, vs. staying by and keeping them from fear. PJ's scene wasn't like the book. But's that's a topic for another thread.
I won't get into whether it was the right decision or not, but IMHO PJ's idea there was to keep the possibility going that Strider could be an enemy--he leaves the hobbits alone and the wraiths attack. I can see how someone who didn't know the story could wonder if he'd given the hobbits away.

Wow, cool Avalon to 17shadowings! I think I will have to play these movies side-by-side at some point to revel in the parallelism.
Well, I do have Avalon on DVD, but I don't think I came up with anything better than the shot ainon posted to show Elijah with his "mother"--in the one below, they're watching their car get destroyed. But I thought the second one was kind of nice of her and Aiden Quinn together (I haven't tried yet to get one of Aiden's eyes to show the genetic connection between father and son ;) ).

http://www.imagemagician.com/images/tgshaw/Previous movies/cap9853-85.jpg

http://www.imagemagician.com/images/tgshaw/Previous movies/cap9860-85.jpg

Kind of strange that my DVD program kept performing illegal actions and shutting down when I tried to watch Avalon. I had to reboot a few times to get it working--I'm wondering if the DVD gave it a stomach ache :( . I stuck Bumblebee in to make sure there wasn't a problem with the DVD itself, and had the same problem with it. I hadn't had anything but VCDs in the drive for so long (TTT, Chain of Fools, Oliver Twist) that maybe it forgot how to handle a DVD :confused: ! I even noticed myself how much thicker the DVD was than the VCDs, after not handling a DVD for so long.



Avalon spoiler warning--just in case







I'd forgotten that in Avalon Michael watches (through the car window) as his father is stabbed and robbed. Geesh, in both of his first two movies, Elijah's character watches through a window as his father gets stabbed :eek: . At least in Avalon he survived. And in both of them, the son sees it because he "went to work with Dad" that day.






End of Avalon spoiler




First time I'd watched Avalon in ages--first time ever on DVD. There's a lot of good material there! I didn't take time with it today except to get the couple of shots I posted above and one sequence that just made me LOL--thinking about the fact that Elijah's mother got him into modeling/acting to channel his energy!! There's one happy scene that definitely shows he's got a lot to channel :p :p ! I'd been wondering what to do for a new "non-LotR movies" page on the "real" website, and I think I'll use this scene. It's really just a delight :) .


---------------------------------

Gee, I didn't expect to still be the last one here, three hours later! Just to tell everyone that I have the Nazgul flyover posted (two pages):
http://home.earthlink.net/~screencaps/

That's the last scene I had screencaps ready from, so it may be awhile before I can put up another batch--although I may post just a few shots that I've taken from various places in the movie. Life is getting a bit overwhelming right now!

tgshaw--Thank you for the excellent new screencap series! Sangat cantik is all I can say right now :).

TTT Extended Edition Special Features (http://www.theonering.net/perl/newsview/8/1056936586) :cool:


Mariole ... listen, it's time to let the trout go. Really, it's okay. It's for your own good. It's time. And we'd like to let you do it yourself ... before we have to sic the cat on you. ;)

Thanks for the Ring seduction comparison and for the cloak. The very best of the best nice swirly cloak moments. I fell in love with that move, like, first time through. Another favourite cloak moment of mine is that one when Frodo and Aragorn are perched precariously on the broken stair in Moria. Great swirl action, combined with Ranger-grabbing-hobbit motion. Cool. :D

Hey Viola. How are you doing? Free from trouts now? :)


tg - absolutely terrific screencap analyses! LOL. Thank you. :k Love it that you would give ample coverage for dead hobbit time, as well as shoulder pain time -- doesn't matter how many times I watch TTT, each time I see him struck by that pain I feel a genuine twinge of pained sympathy for him too. He's good. He's real good. And I like the comparison you made to oncoming tornadoes; it sure works.

Oh, and lovely complementary caps from 'Avalon'! Can't help but think though that at that point, Elijah basically looked like any other generic Hollywood kid in ensemble drama; there's no hint whatsoever that he'd grow up to become our Frodo. Anyway, hope that DVD programme of yours is behaving now, tg.



Blossom - you're not PM-enabled, but I need to talk to you. :) Gimme a quick PM anyways? Please? :)

ACK! I don't have time to post this morning, I really don't, but I have to comment on those extraordinary Nazgul flyover caps. It's even more heartbreaking to see it in slow motion! If I had one more screen of "dead" hobbit to view, I was going to have to march ... well, I don't know. But somewhere, and rescue him.

Must run. Extremely crazy morning. Deadline due, and there are all these hostage negotiators standing just outside. They have the place surrounded with police cars, firetrucks, ambulances, news trucks, an animal-control vehicle housing a giant cat, etc etc. Some annoying man keeps bellowing through a bullhorn, "Just put the trout down and come out with your hands up!" *Sigh*

I hate Mondays...

Amazing caps Mariol and Tg. Thanks for the bringing those finer details of Elijah's acting to our attention. I've never seen him so tormented (no, not in the 4 times I saw TTT - can't wait for the DVD). He really is incomparable. And thanks for the insightful comments - you too Maeglian - and for pointing out the consistencies tween book and movie. :k
Nothing I can possibly add to what you've all said.

Originally posted by mariol3b3
If I had one more screen of "dead" hobbit to view, I was going to have to march ... well, I don't know. But somewhere, and rescue him.
LOL :D -- I know what you mean. When I was working on those, I wanted to say, "Hey, gang, I love angst as much as anyone, but next time I r-e-a-l-l-y need to do something feisty :( !" At least something without frames and frames of dead hobbit :eek: ! [Hint: They don't make as complete a scene as some of the others, but I do have some nice feisty Fro pics from the original scuffle with Gollum ;) .]

...Some annoying man keeps bellowing through a bullhorn, "Just put the trout down and come out with your hands up!" *Sigh*
Y'know, Mariol, pretty soon someone's going to have to trout you for not giving up the trout :D ! Would that work--I mean, would a nice, fresh trout make you let go of the first one :p ?

Originally posted by ainon
Oh, and lovely complementary caps from 'Avalon'! Can't help but think though that at that point, Elijah basically looked like any other generic Hollywood kid in ensemble drama; there's no hint whatsoever that he'd grow up to become our Frodo.
Even at that age, IMVHO the magic was in Elijah's acting rather than his looks--not that he isn't and wasn't a cutie ;) ! Frodo's supposed to be an "everyman" after all.

I'd forgotten what a range of events and emotions are covered in Avalon. And whether he's lost in delight, engaged in teasing his cousin, covered in calamine lotion, or watching helplessly as his father's attacked, already at that age Elijah didn't seem able to make a bad screencap ;) . I'll have some "lost in delight" caps up on the main website in a couple of days. :) Just looking at 'em makes me smile--which can't be a bad thing :) .

From ainon
Can't help but think though that at that point, Elijah basically looked like any other generic Hollywood kid in ensemble drama; there's no hint whatsoever that he'd grow up to become our Frodo.

Who could have thought at that point that this amazingly gifted child would end up playing a generic Hollywood hobbit in a fantasy blockbuster? :D :)

For me one of the great weaknesses of PJ's Weathertop was Strider wandering off and leaving the hobbits unprotected, vs. staying by and keeping them from fear.


As opposed to him disappearing immediately after the attack and then later leaving them alone and uprotected with a severely wounded Frodo in the dead of night for hours? :p ;) :)


Deftly dodges flying trout
:p hah! you missed! :p

Ouch!!! :D

~relurks~

Just a quickie to say how much I love all the 'comparison' pics but a special big thankyou to BLOSSOM for the wonderful pics from 'The Fellowship Awaits the Ringbearer' which I had posted about. I immediately just had to watch it again:k

Mariol - when I saw the first of those pics that you posted, the one of Frodo with his sword, I really wished I had the technical know-how to do screencaps because it instantly reminded me of a shot of Elijah which I'm sure appears somewhere in the Appendices on the FOTR ex dvd (though I'm now having trouble finding it) - he's with the other hobbits but they're not in costume and I feel sure they must have been rehearsing that very scene as they all have swords and Elijah looks exactly as he does in that pic - I'm sure most of you will know which scene I mean - he's wearing a green jumper (the only time I've seen him wearing this) - perhaps someone could make a cap of this - I really must continue the search so I can describe exactly where it comes.

Maeglian - that wonderful pic of Hobmom's that you posted - it leaves me wondering how someone that young could summon up such an emotion-filled expression - I'd love to know what was going on in his mind at that moment.

You people post the most unbelievably gorgeous screencaps. :p

I just had to say that. :)

Yup.....sniff sniff...its definitely time to let it go (the SWAT team has just arrived :eek: )

as for strider leaving the hobbits alone -it never struck me as unusual because I suppose I just assumed it was a part of his role as a ranger, and he thought that he had sufficiently warned the hobbits about the danger they were in (the ringwraiths at the Prancing Pony would have scared the .... out of me) that they would have been ok. Even frodo seemed amazed that the others were stupid enough to light a fire and have a feed without thinking of the consequences...

those big hairy hobbit feet do come in handy when it comes to fires....:D (do we think we should tell SA that??? -just in case he's still counting the number of times he put the feet on and they weren't in the final cut??? hehehe)

viola

[thinking of opening a fish shop and/ or getting a trout fishing licence in nz :confused: ]

I would just like to express my appreciation to all you for standing by me during my trout-hugging phase. Looking back, it hardly seems like I was the same person. The new "me" is so confident in comparison, so relaxed, so ... odor free. I thank you, and so do my neighbors.

Now, enaiowen may not thank me, although I thank her -- excellent point about the Strider abandonment in the book, which had never bothered me before. It shows how book blind I was. You all made good points. Now that I've distinguished between the PJ and Tolkien creations, I can let Book!Strider go. (Oh, no! Another letting-go issue! I promise this time it will be easier...)

Regarding your Avalon comments, I forgot where I read this, but some reviewer or another had pointed out that even young Elijah didn't rely on his cuteness for a part, but his acting ability. Yeah, he was a cute kid, but not sooooooo cute that you would forgive him everything (well, maybe some of us would). I think even then it was his presence and his focus that people were appreciating. The "cute" is just a nice bonus.

from tgshaw
Even at that age, IMVHO the magic was in Elijah's acting rather than his looks--not that he isn't and wasn't a cutie :)! Frodo's supposed to be an "everyman" after all.
I suppose this is true, but PJ really screwed up his casting, then. Whether you think he's cute or not, Elijah definitely has otherworldly looks. (I'm just kidding about PJ! He did it way right.) I think the fact is that EW doesn't think he's particularly good looking either, because of his nonstandard features. When ??? (the guy on Glick) interviewed him and said something about his "blue eyes," Elijah barely restrained himself from rolling them. I think he's kind of sick to the teeth with everyone he meets making a comment on his eyes, and he certainly doesn't spend his off hours primping. He's a "working" actor.

As for tg's request, hmm, I don't remember seeing a lot of Feisty!Fro in TTT, unless he's fighting someone (Faramir's men or Sam). I think we see more Angry!Fro when we're not seeing Anguished!Fro. We have tiny little happy glimpses, such as when Smeagol brings him the rabbits, or when he and Sam share a quiet lembas at the movie's beginning. Fortunately the 3rd movie will have lots of happy light bits, like Cirith Ungol, to lift our spirits. (I think I'm going to go away and cry now...)

Shireling, I would love to create caps for you, as soon as I know which feature you're thinking of. I can't remember one where he has a green ... jumper? Not one of those green robes that all the hobbits seemed to wear around set? There's a sword rehearsing scene (I think in "Day of a life of a hobbit"), but I thought they were in street clothes for that. Anyway, let me know.

As you can see, I became an addict when THIS BOARD shared their screen-capping secrets with me. Someone (was it tg?) pointed out the Shift+P feature for the WinDVD program, and my hours have been happy ever since. Oh thank you thank you thank you :k

Edit: Okay, this just depressed me. On the TORN site, they posted a USA Today article that discusses the first of the ROTK posters, featuring Aragorn.
The closing chapter ... promises such visual thrills as monstrous spider Shelob. But the heart of the movie is the rise of Aragorn (Viggo Mortensen) to his rightful place as ruler.
Frodo's entire journey has just been dimissed with a "but." I hope this is just the reporter being a ditz, and not PJ's reworking of the story, but I am very worried and :(

Originally posted by mariol3b3
Regarding your Avalon comments, I forgot where I read this, but some reviewer or another had pointed out that even young Elijah didn't rely on his cuteness for a part, but his acting ability. Yeah, he was a cute kid, but not sooooooo cute that you would forgive him everything (well, maybe some of us would). I think even then it was his presence and his focus that people were appreciating. The "cute" is just a nice bonus.

I suppose this is true, but PJ really screwed up his casting, then. Whether you think he's cute or not, Elijah definitely has otherworldly looks. (I'm just kidding about PJ! He did it way right.) I think the fact is that EW doesn't think he's particularly good looking either, because of his nonstandard features.
IMVHO, "otherworldly looks" aren't appreciated by everyone (...remember that reviewer who talked about Elijah's "clammy white skin"?). But Frodo's (probably ;) ) got that drop of Elvish blood that makes them very fitting, I think. And Tolkien did say that Frodo was "fairer than most" hobbits, so there's nothing wrong with him being easy to look at. But it would somehow seem a bit strange (to me) to have Frodo played by a "standard" got-the-job-because-he's-handsome actor. Otherworldly, nonstandard, what Fran called his "interesting face," IMHO is exactly right.

And even if he were traditional leading man material, IMO it would still be Elijah's presence and focus (and gifted acting) that would be most important.

Shireling, I would love to create caps for you, as soon as I know which feature you're thinking of. I can't remember one where he has a green ... jumper? Not one of those green robes that all the hobbits seemed to wear around set?
Aha, my [couple of] years of learning Britspeak may be helpful here. A "jumper" isn't, you know, what we :p would call a jumper (which most males other than Orlando Jones wouldn't be caught dead in), but... well, something else. A sweater, I believe :confused: --maybe my Britspeak isn't as good as I thought? But I do know a "jumper" isn't, you know, a jumper. :p

Frodo's entire journey has just been dimissed with a "but." I hope this is just the reporter being a ditz, and not PJ's reworking of the story, but I am very worried and :(
If it was actually someone at TORN itself that was saying this, I'd be worried. But since it's from USA Today, I'm sticking with the story that NewLine just isn't letting out anything regarding post-Shelob Frodo. The article is about the Aragorn poster, after all, which was the first poster released. If we see a Frodo poster at all before RotK comes out, I'm betting it will be a pic we've already seen--maybe Frodo holding up the phial, or the "Pieta."

With more than five months to go, it will be an amazing statement about NewLine and Tolkien readers if "we" can get to December 17 without letting the cat out of the bag. I expect to see very little of Elijah during the pre-release publicity phase this year (maybe one reason he ended up doing so much last year?).

My expectation--which could certainly be wrong--is that Aragorn's story and Frodo's story will come out just about equal in RotK as far as time. Frodo should get the ending ( :mad: if not!!), which will add to the importance the audience puts on his story. If PJ does the same as he did with TTT and also opens with Frodo and Sam, that would add even more. IMHO that's about an even bet: so far Frodo's had the opening and ending of both movies, which could mean either that PJ's using that as a pattern, or that he'll consider it to be Aragorn's "turn."

Shireling, I would love to create caps for you, as soon as I know which feature you're thinking of. I can't remember one where he has a green ... jumper? Not one of those green robes that all the hobbits seemed to wear around set? There's a sword rehearsing scene (I think in "Day of a life of a hobbit"), but I thought they were in street clothes for that. Anyway, let me know.

Thanks Mariol - but I still haven't found it and now its really beginning to bug me:( You know what its like when you *know* you've got something, somewhere, and just can't track it down. I've got a feeling it might be in one of the documentaries on the first dvd but haven't got time to check that tonight but as soon as I find it I'll let you know. It was only a very, very brief scene, but when I saw that pic of Frodo I immediately thought of it.

Aha, my [couple of] years of learning Britspeak may be helpful here. A "jumper" isn't, you know, what we would call a jumper (which most males other than Orlando Jones wouldn't be caught dead in), but... well, something else. A sweater, I believe --maybe my Britspeak isn't as good as I thought? But I do know a "jumper" isn't, you know, a jumper.

You're right, tg, by "jumper" I mean sweater:) I'm actually giving my age away by using that word too as it seems to be used much less now than it used to be:o Er, just wondering, what would you call a jumper? Anyway, Elijah was definitely wearing a green woollen sweater in that scene, not his hobbit robe:)

I seem to recall some behind-the-scenes swordplay training in the SE DVD extras, but he was wearing a black T-shirt there, so that can't be it....

Anyway, I'm scrambling to get a lot of RL stuff done, so this will have be relatively short. :o


(((Sheryl))) thinking about you.


Those TTT caps are so.... tempting. Great sneak peeks for those upcoming DVD releases. :) There are some wonderful gems, like that very last cap. That one was such a wonderful and surprisingly balanced Frodo-and-Sam portrayal to me; - a simple and quite compressed frame of the 2 characters, and yet so extremely LotR'ish, if that makes sense.


Oh, yes, I almost forgot: This decipher card also gave me *very* nice TTT DVD anticipation chills:

http://www.decipher.com/lordoftherings/cardlists/ents/images/LOTR-EN06109.jpg

Shireling, Mariol - I think I've just found the Elijah Green Jumper... er, sorry - Sweater:) clip you've been talking about. I'll leave the caps for you, Mariol, but perhaps this will save you time - if you see this before you find it yourself - instead of ploughing through all the DVD extras.

Shireling is right about it being on the Theatrical release version of FOTR. When the main menu appears, go to lordoftherings.net Featurettes. Then go down and select 'more,' and then 'Elijah Wood.' The clip in question is only a few minutes into the item. It comes just after some scenes of Hobbiton - you'll see Frodo and Gandalf on the cart, and it's right after that - very quick. There's a shot of a guy looking down into a camera lens, and then the four hobbits appear together, in their everyday clothes, rehearsing with their swords.

It does only last for a few seconds, but I can see what you mean, Shireling, about Mariol's Weathertop cap reminding you of Elijah there. I don't even remember seeing that clip before, although the 'Elijah Wood' featurette was one of the first things I watched on the extras. It's been a while since I looked at that, so it was nice to see it again.

Tg - once again, what brilliant screencaps. Those 'dead hobbbit' ones are especially poignant. Thanks.

ROTK worries surfacing again with that quote Mariol posted about Aragorn's destiny being the heart of the film. I do share your concern, Mariol. However, I hope Tg is on the right track, with Frodo's story being given equal time with Aragorn - or more!!! The trilogy must surely end with Frodo. His is the greatest sacrifice. I can't wait to see what Elijah does with Frodo as he descends further into - despair? Addiction? Madness? I wonder what PJ has in store for him!!!

This is a total experiment--amazon.com makes their images difficult to copy, I'm sure on purpose. But if this comes out right, it will link to a picture of what an American would call a jumper: kind of a sleeveless dress that's worn over a blouse, shirt or sweater. :)

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00008A4LB.01-A3BHU1UEUYDJ19.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

(Not always this long, but that seems to be the style right now.)

Tg, a million thanks for proposing your New Line marketing theory regarding the Aragorn poster. Here I've been right on the "disclose nothing after Shelob's Lair" band wagon, and the first little clip about ROTK and I dive straight off into the worry zone, breaking my nose. This just once again proves why I will never have a future as an international spy; clearly I can't remember what is public information and what is not. I gladly, relievedly and whole-heartedly embrace the minimal-Frodo-disclosure theory. Thank you so much for reminding me. It's little things like this that make a wonderful board like the Faculty a necessity during these pre-movie jitters. :)

I also wondered about Elijah doing so much promotion last year. Viggo hardly appeared at all -- do you suppose he got some sort of exclusion in his contract to be let out of promotion duty? Or maybe they're doing it backwards. Elijah, known from movie 1, promotes movie 2, in which he only appears about 30% of the time. Viggo, popular from movie 2, will promote movie 3, in which he will figure roughly 50 %. We'll see. I don't know if movie 3 is "Aragorn's turn" or not, but it seems that Sean Astin and Viggo, both in LA, could be roped into a bit more promotion duty.

I continue to be grateful that Frodo is not played by a standardly handsome man. Everytime I see Frodo's unusual features, I'm transported to Middle Earth.

Maeg, the decipher card is *very* nice, period. I don't know why it's so appealing, and I don't believe I will be analyzing my response too closely.

Good detective work, Blossom! I never noticed the green jumper before -- I've only remembered the clips where he's in his black tee-shirt. It's been a while since I watched the 'Elijah Wood' featurette myself, so it was fun to return to it.

Shireling, here's the pic I think you mean, of the boys rehearsing. I notice that Sean Astin's stance here is virtually identical to what he uses in the movie:

http://home.ricochet.com/mdes/limages/wethr1.jpg


Here's a shot of Frodo looking as equivalent as I could get him:

http://home.ricochet.com/mdes/limages/wethr2.jpg


You might notice that Rehearsal!Lij is a lot less scared than Movie!Fro. But then, the Rehearsal!Wraith looks a lot less scary in these shots as well.

http://home.ricochet.com/mdes/limages/wethr3.jpg

(Shucks, don't the boy look young?)

Edit: Just popping back in to wish Maeg a very fun summer! I'll certainly miss you. Please come back with fun stories. Take care! :)

[Irreverent thought] If that rehearsal took place today, they could have chosen various fans of the four of them to rehearse the ringwraiths. You know, fans of the more unrestrained kind, not the KD kind. Then there'd probably be lots of fear on their faces! :eek: [/irreverent thought]

Great pictures, Mariole. That first one of the four of them is really good.

I'm mainly popping in here to say goodbye for a little while. I shall be without internet access for some time, entirely due to summer&sun activities. :)

Looking forward to returning all re-energized and ready to enjoy all the new research that will be here.

(((Faculty)))

Many thanks to BLOSSOM for tracking down that clip - I was beginning to get quite annoyed with myself - and it isn't all that long since I was looking at those 'featurettes'. And thankyou MARIOL for doing the screencaps. He does look very young there, doesn't he? Only 18, of course. Mind you, I wonder if he wore his hair exactly like that again whether he'd look all that much different.

TGSHAW - thanks for clearing up the jumper question. When that garment in the pic first became popular many years ago we used to call it a pinafore dress but nowadays I think it would probably be just a sleeveless dress or an overdress - I never realised it was called a jumper in the US. I can see that my original post must have been very confusing for some .... visions of Elijah in a long, green, sleeveless dress:D

*whistle of appreciation and admiration* Mariole, those are great! IIRC it's a very quick blink-and-you-might-miss-'em moment but you really caught them at their best! :k Wonder what that wraith is thinking though, as he rubs his chin in deep dastardly contemplation ... ;)

On the topic of Weathertop and rehearsals and angsts, Mariole, Blossom, et al ... while you guys have the second disc from the theatrical DVD in your drives, you might want to take a look at a very screencap-ish Frodo rehearsal/filming sequence at minute 36:51 of the 'Passage to Middle Earth' special. :)


tg, thanks for posting the American jumper pic. Despite coming across the term before, I don't think my imagination ever obliged and gave me an image of what on earth a jumper - be it British or American - might be. Hmm. Elijah in drag. Without a cute hood this time. Do I even want to go there? :p :D



Have fun, Maeglian! We'll be waiting for you to get back. :k

Ainon, I should have guessed! More cloak action!

Here are a few from the series, but I will say, those Wraith Robes are hypnotic. Someone who has gif capability might want to make a swirly bit of ghostly goodness.

http://home.ricochet.com/mdes/limages/w1.jpg

http://home.ricochet.com/mdes/limages/w2.jpg

http://home.ricochet.com/mdes/limages/w3.jpg

http://home.ricochet.com/mdes/limages/w4.jpg

There are a couple of pics, like the last one, where the robes look almost like hands reaching out.

Question: Am I putting too many caps on a page? Do people have trouble displaying these? Thanks!

Ah, such memories... That was one of the first scenes I ever screencapped :p . But I think we did slightly different parts of it, actually. (I'm at work so can't check--they'd definitely be on a CD by now!)

I think it's possible those are supposed to be hands--or something--reaching out. IIRC, this is an alternate "take" of when the WiKi is trying to get the Ring. But without finished special effects, etc., it's hard to tell for sure.

Maeg--have a lovely vacation :) . Will miss you :( .

Originally posted by mariol3b3
Tg, a million thanks for proposing your New Line marketing theory... I also wondered about Elijah doing so much promotion last year. Viggo hardly appeared at all -- do you suppose he got some sort of exclusion in his contract to be let out of promotion duty? Or maybe they're doing it backwards... Exclusion in the contract? Absolutely. I call it the "No Blood For Oil" Tactic.

After all I've seen, I don't believe that New Line even has anything except a very rudimentary marketing strategy. At this point I'll be ecstatic if everything from the trailer actually winds up in the movie.

From Erendis
Exclusion in the contract? Absolutely. I call it the "No Blood For Oil" Tactic.
LOL. Should EJW opt for a similar 'exclusion' by, say, vigorously promoting clove cigarettes at his very first RotK press junket? :D :)
From Mariole
You might notice that Rehearsal!Lij is a lot less scared than Movie!Fro.
A touch of glycerine makes it. Just kidding :).

Mariol - Those beautiful pics all come out fine on both my home and work PCs.
I've been right on the "disclose nothing after Shelob's Lair" band wagon, and the first little clip about ROTK and I dive straight off into the worry zone, breaking my nose. Ouch! Same with me. Relieved to learn of another possible interpretation.

Re: The boys at sword play - I remember that moment very well - having rewound and slo-mo'd it innumerable times :o . As I recall, during that clip, Lij exclaims, 'Stop!' then, 'God!' as if his mates were teasing him with their swords in some way (!). He pronounced both words using his native western open "o" (before he'd acquired that British hobbit refinement).

Re: The arresting card of blind-folded Fro - I never imagined the blind being applied so as to suffocate in the real story let alone in real life! Poor Lij - the, uhh, Ring all exposed and he's stopped from breathing as well as seeing :( .

Maeglian - Enjoy your sunny days off!

Mariole - ooohhhhh. :cool: Yeah, they show up fine, and I love the size you have them at; the details are wonderful to see! You captured his pointy hobbit ear, which I somehow never noticed on screen. Excellent gaze-able caps, Mariole. :k Oh yes, a gif of this would be perfect. :)

Originally posted by tgshaw
I think it's possible those are supposed to be hands--or something--reaching out. IIRC, this is an alternate "take" of when the WiKi is trying to get the Ring. But without finished special effects, etc., it's hard to tell for sure.

That'd be this pic, from Cinefex magazine's 2002 LOTR edition:

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-1/93723/cinefex.jpg



Originally posted by Brunhild
A touch of glycerine makes it. Just kidding :).


Just a touch? :p
http://home.villagephotos.com/2003-7/13204/a'in/crop.jpg That shine's blinding! :D



naiad:
Re: The arresting card of blind-folded Fro - I never imagined the blind being applied so as to suffocate in the real story let alone in real life! Poor Lij - the, uhh, Ring all exposed and he's stopped from breathing as well as seeing

I never imagined the blindfold being like that either while I was reading, but it makes sense. Covering just the eyes hurts, I think, because if it's tight, then there's pressure on the eyeballs. If loose, then the hobbit might see past his nose. And I don't think it suffocates them. Otherwise women who wear heavy veils would be facing severe life complications. ;)

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-1/93723/tup.jpg


And there's this, from TORN.
ROTK SPOILER LINK http://www.theonering.net/perl/newsview/2/1057176387

Spoilers about Shelob. Maybe. Who knows? :p


edited to add the WiKi reaching for Ring pic.

I've been delighting in those screencaps and the speculation. But that picture that ainon just posted--with Peter Jackson and Sean Astin laughing, while Fro gets blindfolded--takes the cake! Elijah has his hands in his pockets while the mask is being tied! Wonder what kind of joke PJ has just told?!

((Maeg)) Have a great summer!

Here's a little gif of the 'swirly, ghostly ringwraith' clip:

http://www.imagemagician.com/images/blossom/BTSwraith.gif

And here's a little gem I had almost forgotten about - also on the theatrical version DVD extras. Frodo and Pippin in the tree-roots, hiding from the black rider. I love how Frodo becomes Elijah before our eyes here:

http://www.imagemagician.com/images/blossom/BTSblackrider.gif

Great caps, Mariol and ainon. Mariol, yes - Frodo DOES look much more terrified in the actual film caps than he does in the rehearsal. Elijah knows when it's 'for real.' Your pics look fine, size-wise. I wish I could post larger gif images, but they take up so much space on IM, and sometimes won't upload if they are too large.

deluby - where are you and your lovely gifs?

Maeg - Have a lovely time. Be good!:)

Those gifs are wonderful, Blossom, there's something quite hypnotic about that first one - and I don't just mean the swirling robes:) And I'd love to know what Elijah was saying in the second one - can anyone lipread?

Ainon - just wondering where that pic of Frolijah being blindfolded came from - I've never seen it before and its very unlike me to miss anything where Lij is conerned:)

Mariole - I never have any trouble loading the pics:)

Blossom! Thank you for the swirling ghostly gif. It's playing on screen now, keeping me company. I like how the robes "reach out" around his head, and his little belly breathing. He does look scared here -- Brunhild, do you have a take on the glycerin content present? :p

The thing I love about the tree-root clip is that Elijah knows that they had a good take. His smirk happens to slightly precede Peter calling out, "Well that was good for me." Of course, the voice over could just happen to overlap the visual of Elijah grinning for this feature; I can't know. EW's grin also seems meant to give encouragement to his fellow actors; who knows how many times they've cowered at this point? I can't remember which of the actors said it, but someone said that the newer ones often took their cues from Elijah during filming just because he'd been in so many films before (and this was day 1 of filming).

Love the casual, blindfolded Lij pic. Too funny! Yeah, that was taken in my back yard (don't I wish!) :D

Re: the canon blindfold, the hobbits don't get blindfolded until just before the secret approach to Henneth Annun, and their hands are not bound. Tolkien writes:

With green scarves the two guards now bound up the hobbits' eyes, and drew their hoods down almost to their mouths
So it sounds like the scarves go around the eyes (as Faramir says, "Securely, but not so as to discomfort them" -- he's so much more civil in the book), and the hoods on their elven cloaks are pulled forward as an additional mask. They can definitely breathe, because when they pass the waterfall, "they felt a fine rain on their hands and cheeks." I guess PJ wanted his hobbits more oppressed than that. He really does love torturing the poor bunnies.


And I'd love to know what Elijah was saying in the second one - can anyone lipread?
Shireling, I don't think he's saying anything. When I watch the clip on the featurette, it looks almost like he's chewing, or using the exaggerated motion of chewing gum, which some people do to show catlike smugness.

naiad, ainon, shireling et al, thanks for the confirm on the pics working. I'm using a wireless connection, but I wondered if dial-ups might have trouble.

----
TORN has posted a translated article translated from Italy's 'Ciak' Magazine, talking about the last days of pickup shoots for ROTK. It states that they are doing "pickups" in the lair -- adding just words or angles here and there to scenes that were filmed in 1999 or 2000. I wonder if we'll be able to tell the age difference between the 22-yr-old version and the 18-yr-old. I hope not. There's a somewhat stilted quote from Elijah:

Elijah Wood, who promised an annual assembly with all the members of the cast and crew, says: ‘Do you know when I could shoot another time the most important movie of my life?’

The article states that all 4 hobbits had one more week of filming as of June 22, so I guess they've gone home now. All shooting concludes on July 10. It also says that TTT will be 47 minutes longer than the TV (I'd only heard 43). For details, click the link.

!!!Beware! SPOILERS about certain scenes, like the lair!!!
http://www.theonering.net/perl/newsview/8/1057241090

Blossom, beautiful gifs! The first one especially, it is hypnotic! I like that belly breathing too; Mariole, nice of you to come up with the term for it. ;)

For more storage (and sharing!) space, maybe you'd like to take a look at this site, Blossom: http://files.villagephotos.com/index.asp

The free account allows up to 30 MB storage for files and allows external linking. The pics I'm posting today are linked from my account there. The downside is that there's a bandwidth/access limit per day: 5MB. Once the limit is exceeded, the account is 'locked' and no more downloads are possible for the day. But I think that should be okay for your gifs - provided we all right-click and save for every gif you share with us. I've been advised that right-clicking and saving won't affect bandwidth usage. I'm trying it out myself, to complement my first Village Photos account for image storing, which has a limit of only 25 images for a free account. I'd been resorting to deleting older images from my account; anyone who goes back a few pages now will only see little red squares in place whatever pics I'd posted in my posts. :o I'm hoping with this second account, I'll be able to leave images up longer, so Sheryl and Maeg and all our colleagues can still catch up and see whatever pics there are when they come back to us. :)


shireling
Ainon - just wondering where that pic of Frolijah being blindfolded came from - I've never seen it before and its very unlike me to miss anything where Lij is conerned :)

I downloaded it from the a website before TTT came out. I think it was on a card of some sort. There were others:

http://home.villagephotos.com/2003-7/13204/a'in/cardz15.jpg http://home.villagephotos.com/2003-7/13204/a'in/cardzx.jpg



Mariole, thanks for the TORn info and Elijah's quote. Saves me the trouble of reading it. I'm eager for spoilers but have tunnel vision for only Frodo-related spoilers. LOL. Back to Elijah's quote: I try to massacre the English language and even I have never come up with something as erm ... what-the-hey-does-that-mean as that. :D

The tree root clip also reminds me of the kind camaderie and fun the four of them must have had. Wonder who bore the brunt of most pranks? ;)

http://home.villagephotos.com/2003-7/13204/a'in/main.jpg


And just because I can house more images, and assuming that it's very low bandwidth use season at KD now, I felt like putting this one up again. Just because. ;)

http://home.villagephotos.com/2003-7/13204/a'in/kakiFr.jpg

From ainon
I try to massacre the English language and even I have never come up with something as erm ... what-the-hey-does-that-mean as that. :D
Ok, here's the Italian phrase from 'Ciak' magazine: Quando mi capiterà più di girare per tre volte il film piu importante della mia carriera?
One more awkward translation: When will I have another chance to film the most important movie of my career thrice?
Warning: God only knows what did EJW say originally. This kind of "there-and-back-again" translations can yield absolutely bizarre results :).

The oldest two are still at Grandma's, and hubby took the younger three to the zoo (if it's open, the park if not), and I *finally* got caught up on the thread.

Happy sigh.

Mariol,
I am blown away by your comparison pics and by your commentary on same. Your first set just knocked me out by their economy, and then they just keep getting better!

I'm almost tempted to give in and add a sig, just so I can use this quote from tg:

if Tolkien's a "geek's author" then Elijah is a "geek's actor"--both of them make it worthwhile to be a geek, because of how much is there to be found by looking a little deeper and thinking about it a little more.

:cool:

Narya,
I missed your birthday. :( But you know how much I love you, I reckon. :k Hope it was a lovely one.

originally posted by erendis
In FotR there is a scene where the WiKi walks menacingly toward Frodo, Morgul blade drawn. In TTT there is a scene where Faramir walks menacingly toward Frodo, Sword drawn. I'm sure this is entirely deliberate, to show that Frodo is equating Faramir with the Nazgul.

Huh, I never thought of interepreting it quite that way, although I suspect that's what someone who hasn't read the books is supposed to think. I always saw Frodo as comparing Faramir to Boromir here, but it does rather connect back to Weathertop. I think, though, that with Faramir there's an element of Frodo thinking, "I've dealt with worse than you, pal." When he shouts, "No!" and shoves the sword away, he has always seemed to me more exasperated with Faramir than angry at him - Faramir's an irritant; the Ring is the true threat.

originally posted by mariol3b3
But once the Ring gets going, Frodo entirely forgets Faramir. His focus and attention are inward. The Ring calls, and his mind just goes away (in the 2nd view, it even looks like it hurts). There is no fear here, just the complete and overpowering call of the Ring.

While I quite agree with your analysis of the two different confrontations here - his fear of the WiKi is overwhelming, while with Faramir there's more wariness, anger and betrayal - I do think there's a point even with on Weathertop where Frodo's interest in the Ring overwhelms his fear of the WiKi - right after he pulls out the Ring, IIRC. He looks at the Ring with this expression of wonder that shifts to horror, then he looks up at the WiKi and it's like he's connecting the two. There's no connection in his mind between the Ring and Faramir, or at least, not a connection of the same kind.

I think Weathertop is when he first sees the Ring as potentially evil. He also sees the WiKi as evil, of course, but he doesn't see Faramir that way - Faramir is more on par with Boromir, Gollum, or Frodo himself, in that the Ring works on him, but he has not been entirely overpowered by it. Even Gollum didn't completely submit to the Ring - I'm of the opinion that, if the Ring were truly in charge of Gollum (particularly movie Ring), then Gollum would have wanted to return it to Sauron, which he doesn't.

There was a discussion in the Faculty with screencaps of the WiKi encounter, way back when, I particularly remember much speculation on how EW managed to lift his body and "follow" the sword as it was pulled out.... :p :D

My eyes were tearing up all through page 138, intially because I'd slipped out to see the screencaps on tg's site, but then because of all the trout talk. :rolleyes: :D Next time you need a new trout, Mariol, you should ask Brunhild; she's asking for them on practically a daily basis. Speaking of which...

originally posted by Brunhild
A touch of glycerine makes it.

Sheryl trouts Brunhild.

Now I'm really back. ;)

Maeglian,
Missing you already! Hope you're having a good time.

I am not looking at spoilers, I am not looking at spoilers, I am not looking at spoilers... unless it's a really good still... I am not looking at spoilers, nope...

Sheryl

tgshaw, you need to empty your PM box, please.:) And check your email.:) bounce bounce!

*waves to Sheryl and ainon and Maeg* - aw heck! *waves to the whole Faculty and gets it over with*:p :D

from shilohmm
I always saw Frodo as comparing Faramir to Boromir here
Sheryl, you could not have stated a more happy idea. Comparing Boromir's Ring reaction to Faramir's. Hooray! Off I go, with more screen captures.

First, a fuzzy Faramir backs a fuzzy Frodo into the wall. (Oh, you lucky people, where the crebain roost!) Anyway, Faramir definitely has that "absent" Ring expression going on, and his motionlessness during the attack shows how deeply he's stirred by the Ring's call. There is no reason for him to draw his sword on Frodo, but the Ring seems to exacerbate violence in anyone who listens to it. I don't know if he's even consciously aware of either the Ring call or his inappropriate actions because of it; there seems to be a "mind go away" effect that comes into play whenever the Ring exerts its influence.

http://home.ricochet.com/mdes/limages/farc.jpg


Boromir, on the other hand, starts out quite friendly. "Hey, Frodo, how you doin', you shouldn't be alone, you know, it isn't safe" ha ha ha, but gets more revved up as the Ring goads him to violence. I'm pretty sure that Boromir isn't aware at the time that the Ring is turning him into a fruitcake. As Book!Boromir later repents, "A madness took me, but it has passed."

http://home.ricochet.com/mdes/limages/bor1.jpg


Just for kicks, here's both Frodo and Boromir fighting the call of the Ring.

http://home.ricochet.com/mdes/limages/bor2.jpg


And here they are after they've failed. Madness and violence take over, and they attack their comrades or even best friend. (At Henneth Annun, even after Frodo shakes off the Ringspell, he lashes out angrily at Faramir, never mind about his stupid sword.)

http://home.ricochet.com/mdes/limages/bor3.jpg


I do think there's a point even with on Weathertop where Frodo's interest in the Ring overwhelms his fear of the WiKi
Is this the one you mean?

http://home.ricochet.com/mdes/limages/ring1.jpg

It appears as though Frodo does get distracted for a moment, but his attention rapidly returns to the WiKi and he snaps out of it. I thought he was primarily considering the Ring as a means of escape, but this could be a Ringspell!Lite moment. Compare this scene to poor Fro in Osgilliath. He doesn't snap out of it this time, at least not on his own.

http://home.ricochet.com/mdes/limages/ring2.jpg

We know that Movie!Fro is in a trance before he ever climbs the stairs, but I don't think it's really clear in the movie whether the Nazgul creates the trance and induces Frodo to put the Ring on (as in the book), or if the Ring is doing it. More research into the various trances (Ring vs Nazgul) may be needed.

FWIW, there are some similarities between this movieverse scene and the Book!WiKi riding out of Minas Morgal. The book states that the effect of the WiKi "pierced him with dread and held him bound as with a spell." Tolkien writes:

Frodo waited, like a bird at the approach of a snake, unable to move. And as he waited, he felt, more urgent than ever before, the command that he should put on the Ring. But great as the pressure was, he felt no inclination now to yield to it. He knew that the Ring would only betray him, and that he had not, even if he put it on, the power to face the Morgul-king -- not yet.
That sinister "not yet" might be a delusion put into his mind by the Ring; it likes to do that (as in "Choices of Master Samwise"). Or it may be that Frodo could wield the Ring as a Power someday. Galadriel had urged him not to try it, or it would "destroy" him. "Before you could use that power you would need to become far stronger, and to train your will to the domination of others." Still, Frodo knows it's not impossible for him to wield the Ring, and it may be that this knowledge is in part what the Ring is using to eat at him.

-----
ainon, thanks for the tip on storage space. I have no idea how much I'm using of mine; we'll see how soon I use it up!

Brunhild, thank you for the much better translation of Elijah's quote. :)

Mariol - Once again, wonderful caps and very interesting comments. Love your book quotes too.

This quote caught my attention while I was browsing through book 2 recently. In view of the current discussion regarding the effect the Nazgul or the Ring has on Frodo, and Mariol's brilliant comparison screencaps of Boromir and Frodo at Amon Hen, I thought it was appropiate. This is how Tolkien describes Frodo's experience after he has put the Ring on to escape Boromir. He is wearing the Ring, and is looking out from his vantage point - the high seat at Amon Hen,

Quote:[/I
_________________________________________________

Then at last his gaze was held: wall upon wall, battlement upon battlement, black, immeasurably strong, mountain of iron, gate of steel, tower of adamant, he saw it: Barad-dur, Fortress of Sauron. All hope left him.

And suddenly he felt the Eye. There was an eye in the Dark Tower that did not sleep. He knew that it had become aware of his gaze. A fierce eager will was there. It leaped towards him, almost like a finger he felt it, searching for him. Very soon it would nail him down, know just exactly where he was. Amon Lhaw it touched. It glanced upon Tol Brandir - he threw himself from the seat, crouching, covering his head with his grey hood.

He heard himself crying out: Never, never! Or was it: Verily I come, I come to you? He could not tell. Then as a flash from some other point of power there came to his mind another thought: Take it off! Take it off! Fool, take it off! Take off the Ring!

The two powers strove in him. For a moment, perfectly balanced between their peircing points, he writhed, tormented. Suddenly he was aware of himself again. Frodo, neither the Voice nor the Eye: free to choose, and with one remaining instant in which to do so. He took the Ring off his finger.
_________________________________________________

Although this takes place at Amon Hen in the book, I think in the films it could also be a source of inspiration for the scene in the Prancing Pony at Bree, when the Ring slips onto Frodo's finger. In the book Frodo crawls under a table and takes the Ring off almost immediately, but in the film the Ring has more impact, and Frodo sees the Eye, though his will at this stage is still strong enough to overcome it and he takes the Ring off. I know I did a collage of this scene, but can't track it down at the moment - it's on a CD somewhere. Also, the ''Verily I come, I come to you.' line puts me in mind of Frodo facing the Nazgul at Osgiliath in TTT. Of course, by this time the Ring has more influence on him. His own will has been subdued, and it is left to Sam to save him.

It is a tribute to Elijah's talent that we can see Frodo's internal struggle and decline so effectively on the screen. Here is an actor who doesn't always need words to portray perfectly what's going on with his character.


Sheryl, I remember the discussion about Elijah's body rising as the Wiki withdrew the sword at Weathertop. Amazing reaction.

Hope all of you in the US had a good July 4th yesterday!

Ainon - thanks for the info on the villagephoto site. I'll have a look there later. And it's free? I also hate having to delete caps I've put up on IM, but in order to accomodate new gifs, I have no choice. Can't afford to upgrade for more space. Love that little pic you posted of Elijah in everyday clothes but Frodo's hair. That's one of my favourites. Lovely.

Brunchild, thanks for the translation of Elijah's Italian magazine quote. Did anyone notice in the article on Torn, The Grey Havens had been translated as The Grey Heavens?

If Dom cried through the last 8 minutes of roughcut ROTK, imagine what it will be like for all of us - Frodo and Sam, The Grey Havens, Howard Shore's score and all! I can't wait.

Whew! Just spent a marathon day+ updating websites. Still a bit more to do, but nothing that should affect the "viewing pleasure" of anyone here ;) . Sometime this weekend I hope to switch the "real" website to the updated version of the program it runs on. If it's as "compatible" as it's supposed to be, there shouldn't be any problems--but, just in case, it's all saved on a CD :) .

Great stuff while I've been gone ! The only possible addition I'd have to the comparisons is a pic to put beside the one of Frodo with Sting at Osgiliath where the Ring is (almost) in control. The following is Frodo with Sting where [i]Frodo's in control; anger without the Ring's addition of hatred, maybe?

http://home.earthlink.net/~screencaps/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/cap9450-85.jpg

That's from two pages I've just added to the "unreal" website ;) at http://home.earthlink.net/~screencaps/. Some much-needed (by me :p ) feisty Fro pics from the capture of Gollum.

Also several new things for July at the main site, including screencaps from Avalon and Moria. Easiest way there is to just click on the "www" at the bottom of any of my posts, because I have links to everything new right on the homepage.

I will post the page URL for the following, though, because it's a bit buried in the site. In regard to the "body rising when the sword is pulled out" comments, here's the frame-by-frame posting of that action. The body movement is most evident if you can save the caps to your own compter and watch them in slideslow mode, although if you really watch for it you can kind of see it by scrolling quickly down the page. It's actually the last of seven pages of Weathertop screencaps (and one of overall commentary), for anyone who hasn't "studied" them in the past :) :

http://www.members.tripod.com/afewwords_tgs/id137.htm

Let's see... what else? The comparisons of Faramir with Boromir and the WiKi have been really interesting. In the book, when Frodo first lays eyes on Faramir, before he knows who he is, the first thing that strikes Frodo is how much Faramir looks like Boromir, and he reacts with some fear to that. IMHO, the movie folks did some excellent casting in that regard--I could certainly believe the two are brothers.

Regarding the blindfolds--one of the biggest "pit of my stomach" moments during TTT is when Frodo and Sam are being passed along from Man to Man as if they're bags of grain... How completely helpless they are in the situation... And with Galadriel's voiceover at that moment talking about the strength of the Ring growing while the strength of the Ring-bearer lessens... :( And, maybe moreso for those who don't know the story, how Faramir only has to reach out and take the Ring for the fate of Middle-earth to be sealed. Even in the movie, IMVHO Faramir reacts to the Ring very differently than Boromir does. Boromir wants it for himself (even to the point of "It should be mine," which is great book canon!), while Faramir, in a way, refuses to touch it, and says to send it to his father. Actually, that's the only way I've been able to make sense of the way Faramir uses that [great] line about "showing his quality" in the movie, since the context is so different from the way it's used in the book. That he's showing his quality by sending it to his father rather than taking it for himself :confused: . Any other thoughts on that? Or maybe that he's not going to kill the hobbits or use force?? Interesting that he decides to send the Ring-bearer to his father along with the Ring--he doesn't take the Ring and send it by itself.

The quotes from Amon Hen and Minas Morgul have been great, too. I'd forgotten the one Mariole quoted about Frodo being like "a bird at the approach of a snake"--a lot of that scene does seem to be "transferred" to Osgiliath, and that certainly fits in there.

--------------------

A question for anyone who's seen The Witness. I watched it again yesterday and it looked to me as if the "Little Boy" (Elijah's character) has been beaten between the second and third day that he stands at the fence. It doesn't seem to be until after that that the black eyes and bruises show up on his face. Has anyone else noticed that (or can anyone tell me I'm way off track?) ? :confused:

-----------

P.S. to Blossom's last line--Awhile back, Dom said that he and Elijah watched Billy Elliott together and they both cried through the whole thing. Isn't it nice to have such sensitive guys :) ?

I've been out of town for a week, and now I spent my free time to make up reading all the interesting posts... I'm speechless! Faculty :k !!
I'm totally blown away by the beautiful material - pictures, gifs, comparisons, comments... thanks everyone for sharing these treasures! It's such a pleasure to read and look - I feel almost as if I'd visited an art museum ;) ! Talking about art museum - when I watched Blossom's mesmerizing swirling belly-breathing gif I suddenly saw said sequence in my mind's eye: endlessly projected onto a wall in a huge, dark museum room (no, not a cinema!) - like a contemporary work of art, no sound, perhaps only the sound of blowing wind, nothing more. I think, after two minutes it would have a similar effect like singing 'OM' for half an hour... :cool:

If Dom cried through the last 8 minutes of roughcut ROTK, imagine what it will be like for all of us - Frodo and Sam, The Grey Havens, Howard Shore's score and all! I can't wait.

Oh yes, I think, I'll go singing 'OM' until December :rolleyes: ,

Greetings!

I think the most amazing thing about those screencaps is that mariol found a picture of Sean Bean actually looking unattractive! :p

As much as I appreciate the side-by side comparisons, would it be possible to re-post the full screencaps of WiKi advancing on Frodo with sword and Faramir advancing on Frodo with Sword, with no cropping? I'm a sucker for camera angle research... *begs* From the strength of the camera angle alone, I believe it was PJ's intention that Frodo compare Faramir to the WiKi, not to Boromir. Faramir's actions -- bind them fast, Orc spies, drawing his sword -- are more like the WiKi than NormalBoromir.

The "quality" line has been much debated. In Book!TTT, it's Sam who uses the quality phrase first, as a challenge to Faramir. Faramir answers by repeating the phrase just before actually showing quality. I'm guessing that the Quality line sounds out-of-place for the same reason that Gimli's "Give me your name" line does: there's a line missing somewhere from the theatrical version. It's possible that Sam says it, but I agree with tg that it wouldn't fit the context. Faramir later says "Take them to my father, tell him that Faramir sends him a mighty gift," which leads me to believe that the idea "Faramir vs. Boromir" as regarding "quality" were big issues. I will be very interested to see the dialogue of that Faramir/Boromir/Denethor scene on the SEE DVD.

from Blossom
It is a tribute to Elijah's talent that we can see Frodo's internal struggle and decline so effectively on the screen.
Absolutely. I was even more impressed after I went back to the source material. It only reinforced just how internal Frodo's major battles are. Kudos to EW once again! (Blossom, you will share your collage if you track it down, won't you?)

Oh, yes, I am so looking forward to the music that will be in ROTK - the event, the show, everything. It's just too hard thinking about it. It's still 5 whole months until December, almost 6 until Christmas! That's 165 days. 3,960 hours. * lip quivers *

from erendis
I think the most amazing thing about those screencaps is that mariol found a picture of Sean Bean actually looking unattractive!
Yes, that was another absolutely brutal assignment. (Notice how long it took me to leap on this after Sheryl only sorta kinda obliquely hinted at it?) Although I disagree a bit. I don't think he's any more unattactive than Elijah Wood (or any other attractive person you might name) would be with a similar expression. I was forced to wade through dozens of Sean Bean screen views to find the ones that most closely resembled my Elijah pics. Brutal duty.

From the strength of the camera angle alone, I believe it was PJ's intention that Frodo compare Faramir to the WiKi, not to Boromir.
This is vital research that must be pursued. Unfortunately, I can't provide any full-screen "Faramir advances" shots, as it isn't on any of the tiny little TTT snippets that I've been able to download. Maybe when tg unburies herself, we can get her to do a Faramir series.


Tg, congrats on the major site overhauls. Wow, what a lot of work! Thank you very much for putting this all together so beautifully for us. A few comments:

Capturing Gollum -- The Bakshi-Frodo moment is! LOL. EW does look like a cartoon at times.

The Gollum pics had me really appreciate how much bigger Gollum's hands are than Frodo's. No wonder the hobbits (from Bilbo on) were so worried about being strangled by him. I can believe that this creepy little dude strangled orcs.

Gollum body-slamming Frodo -- I can't remember where I read it, but IIRC Andy Serkis gave Elijah a black eye while they were filming this -- accidentally of course! They put a steak on Elijah's face at the time, but in the end had to give him a few days for the swelling to go down.

On your main site:

Love your DVD definition: "wonder of modern technology that allows a researcher to skip unimportant scenes in a movie (i.e., scenes without Elijah in them)." LOL! This is so me! :p

Considering your comment on FroShadowing: "(No consensus yet on what to call this when a post-FotR film is used to take the process in reverse.)" Would this be a FroBack?

I enjoyed your page "A Quick Game of "Catch the Ring-bearer." Your rationalization about PJ's Comic-Relief!Gimli works for me!

This scene always hugely amuses me in the movie (even on first viewing), because I know that PJ entirely made it up based on just two sentences in the book -- where Tolkien's point was to illustrate how lucky the Fellowship was to have Gandalf's glowing light in the dark tunnels, and how much Sam regretted not packing rope.

There were fissures and chasms in the wall and floor, and every now and then a crack would open right before their feet. The widest was more than seven feet across, and it was long before Pippin could summon enough courage to leap over the dreadful gap.
It's here that Sam mutters, 'Rope! I knew I'd want it, if I hadn't got it!' It disappointed me in the movie's gift-giving scene that, not only didn't Sam get his bit of earth, but he wasn't delighted with the rope either, which in the book he particularly wanted and was intrigued by, "knowing a bit about rope making: it's in the family as you might say."

-------------------
I loved your essay "Why We'll Never Know if Balrogs Have Wings." Particularly liked this:

Middle-earth will always have unanswered questions

This may be a bit OT here, but your series of essays brought into mind Alan Alda's Commencement speech to the Caltech class of 2002. It was entitled "Finding Feynman," after Dr. Richard Feynman who Alda enacted in the play QED. Here are some of Alda's statements that are pertinent to the ongoing discussion about Tolkien's subcreation:

We don't like uncertainty—so we gravitate back to the last comfortable solution we had—no matter how cockeyed it is.
But Feynman was comfortable with not knowing. He enjoyed it. He would proceed for a while with an idea as if he believed it was the answer. But that was only a temporary belief in order to allow himself to follow it wherever it led. Then, a little while later, he would vigorously attack the idea to see if it could stand up to every test he could think of. If it couldn't stand up, then he simply decided he just didn’t know. “Not knowing,” he said, “is much more interesting than believing an answer which might be wrong.”

Alda relates an interesting anecdote about Feynman working for months to define how a plate wobbled in the air. Hans Bethe commented, "That's interesting, Feynman, but what's the importance of it?" And Feynman said, “It has no importance, it’s just fun!” Alda concludes:

I never really found Feynman. Not really. I came close; but he was too many things. He had too many histories.
We came up with a play in QED that was immensely satisfying. It was beautifully written and beautifully directed and it gave the audience a Feynman that was as close an approximation as we could come up with. But part of me feels that a large chunk of the man is still beyond our reach—probably beyond the reach of anyone.

This might be a way of summing up what Peter Jackson has given us with his Lord of the Rings movies. Anyone who's interested in the entire address can read it here:

http://pr.caltech.edu/commencement/02/alda.html

----------
Avalon pics: How nice to see that happy kid! I don't know about the rest of you, but I can get a bit too much angst in my daily diet with these PJ movies. I'll study Angry!Fro another day. Right now, here's some pics to help me lighten up:

http://home.ricochet.com/mdes/limages/avfr1.jpg

http://home.ricochet.com/mdes/limages/avfr.jpg

Whiteling, what nice comments! Yes, the Faculty is exactly like an art museum. You've got the pretty pictures (thank you PJ and actors, thank you, thank you!) and then you've got volunteer docents like me who'll take you round on a tour and put in our two-bits worth. It doesn't pay anything, but it beats the heck out of my day job! (Although I think I would spend an inordinate amount of time in the giant mesmerizing swirling belly-breathing gif room...)

Here's the Faramir cap:

http://www.imgmag.com/images/erendisofkd/LookingxlikexthexNaz.jpg

(I don't have a crebain, I found this posted somewhere and snagged it.) Now all we need is the corresponding FotR cap from Weathertop...

While we were Hooting in Pennsylvania, Ariel brought the DVD of Huck Finn and we had a riot picking out the Froshadowings. My fave -- at one point, Jim has his arms full of vegetables. Much girly squealing ensued.

Welcome back, Sheryl and Whiteling! *hugs*

Good to see you're really, really back, Sheryl, fresh trouts and all. :D And I love your analogy of the Faculty to a museum, Whiteling. :k

Mariole, thanks again for the glorious research. :) The 'Avalon' Frodo ones are especially delightful. Meanwhile, here's my paltry contribution to your effort on the brutal assignment Erendis has put you on:

http://home.villagephotos.com/2003-7/13204/ainon/

The quality ain't nothing to shout about (actually the quality makes one want to cry, but it's getting late here and I daren't attempt anything too demanding while I'm sleepy), but I hope they'll do till tg has time to reach this chapter. ;)

Thanks for the updates, tg. :) I haven't gone through everything yet though. I see the pirate translation on the Gollum caps and well ... let's just say I'm struggling hard not to fall off my chair laughing. :p

As for the Faramir 'quality' line, I agree with Erendis that the movie's context is no longer the same as it was in the book. Within the movie's context I always saw it as Faramir's tranced-up justification for what he's about to do, but we don't know what quality he's referring to because he could still go either way - the audience doesn't know yet whether he's exactly like his brother, or if he's going to turn out to be the good guy. It'll be great if we get Boromir and Faramir talking about the stuff in flashback. Heck, it'll be great to see Boromir. I never thought I'd say this considering how forgettable BookBoromir was, but I really miss Boromir in movieTTT. One of the things I'm eagerly awaiting for in the Extended Edition will be all those extra Boromir scenes. ;)

Btw, speaking of Boromir, it always seemed to me that Boromir's lunge attack on Frodo at the end of FotR caught Frodo totally by surprise. Whatever he may have thought of Boromir, I don't think it ever occurred to him that Boromir could do such a thing to him; he'd even turned his back on Boromir! I think that significantly, that was when Frodo really lost his trust in people around him, and figured out he was in this alone, for the long haul.

Well, I did it. I ordered what looks like a decent DVD Rom on ebay for my PC complete with capping software.:D When I get it and install it I may never leave the PC again. ;) I'm also bidding on a Try Seventeen disc and if I get it you know what I'll be doing for the next month or so.

Another cap maven slowly arises.;)

Oh my! And the theatrical TTT DVD comes out next month, too!!!!

Originally posted by ainon
...but I hope they'll do till tg has time to reach this chapter. ;)
Working... Working... [in best imitation of Majel Rodenberry's "classic" Star Trek computer voice :p ] Storm blew out the electricity for about 15 hours, but we seem to be back now :) .

... let's just say I'm struggling hard not to fall off my chair laughing. :p
Oh, p-l-e-a-s-e.... you have to share the best ones... please? :)

Thank you, erendis and ainon, for the Faramir pics. Upon further comparison, there are similarities and differences among the Nazgul, Boromir, and Faramir attacks.

For the Faramir attack, when it starts, Frodo is seated, then stands. With the Nazgul and Boromir, he starts out on his feet, and ends on the ground. I don't know if this difference is significant or not.

http://home.ricochet.com/mdes/limages/adv0.jpg

We see Faramir drawing his sword (above). We don't get to see the same view for the Nazgul, because the sword-drawing is always a forward-looking shot from Frodo's POV (inset is Wiki drawing his big sword, main pic he's pulling the Morgul knife). We get to see Frodo's reaction in close-ups.

http://home.ricochet.com/mdes/limages/adv1.jpg

When the Nazgul and Faramir close in, there's definitely a similar shot that does make Faramir more "Nazgul looking" than Boromir (plus Boromir, the nice fellow, never drew his sword, but merely tried to strangle Frodo, so there's no real equivalent view). However, in all of these shots, it could be that PJ is simply trying to emphasize the height/size different between the honking human guys and the petite little hobbits.

http://home.ricochet.com/mdes/limages/adv2.jpg

As our unfriendlies back Frodo into the wall, there's a definite looming effect caused by the size difference. I don't know if this is supposed to make Faramir look Nazgul-like or not (Erendis, camera-angle comments?). In the Faramir encounter, Frodo appears to keep his eyes on Faramir's (does he, full-clip people?). He also maintains eye contact with Boromir (until he walks away) and in the Bilbo confrontation at Rivendell, in kind of a Ringbearer standoff ("Hands off, buster!"). With the Wiki, he does allow his eyes to drift for a moment to that scary Morgul knife. You can almost hear him thinking, "This will be bad..."

http://home.ricochet.com/mdes/limages/adv3.jpg

To me, the human encounters seem more "personal," inasmuch as Frodo is meeting the brothers' eyes and trying to figure out their motives. With the Wiki, it's more, "get it away, this is a scary bad thing."

And as ainon pointed out with Boromir, Frodo even turns his back on him, hoping he can fall back on old friendship until the Ring proves him wrong. Sure, Boromir wasn't his special buddy, but he did battle the Watcher in the Water and catch Frodo when he fell, and they all cut their way out of Moria together, and Boromir carried him out when Gandalf fell. I suppose it's difficult to admit someone that you've built a relationship with can totally turn to the bad. Frodo's attempt to fall back on that is very "human" of him. It also makes Movie!Boromir's fall more upsetting, knowing that he's this good guy who comforts distraught dwarves and hobbits and worries over their welfare ... until the Ring sucks his brain.

Originally posted by mariol3b3
And as ainon pointed out with Boromir, Frodo even turns his back on him, hoping he can fall back on old friendship until the Ring proves him wrong. Sure, Boromir wasn't his special buddy, but he did battle the Watcher in the Water and catch Frodo when he fell, and they all cut their way out of Moria together, and Boromir carried him out when Gandalf fell. I suppose it's difficult to admit someone that you've built a relationship with can totally turn to the bad. Frodo's attempt to fall back on that is very "human" of him. It also makes Movie!Boromir's fall more upsetting, knowing that he's this good guy who comforts distraught dwarves and hobbits and worries over their welfare ... until the Ring sucks his brain.

Yes, Mariol, Boromir's 'fall' is sad. Film Boromir, although tempted at first sight of the Ring at Rivendell, often shows affection and concern for other members of The Fellowship. When he picks the Ring up after Frodo drops it - or after the Ring purposefully falls from around Frodo's neck - he is entranced by it, but then on the freezing, snow-bound ledge on Caradhras he warns Gandalf, 'This will be the death of the hobbits.' After Gandalf's fall, as the others are weeping for the wizard, he asks Aragorn to 'Give them a moment, for pity's sake.' And it is ironic that it is Boromir who attempts to offer Frodo some comfort while they are waiting on the flet for Haldir to let them pass into Lothlorien. He tells him, 'You carry a heavy burden, Frodo. Don't carry the weight of the dead.'

But I don't think that Frodo is showing trust in Boromir when he turns his back on him at Amon Hen. He has heeded Gandalf's warning that 'Evil will be drawn to you from outside The Fellowship - and I believe from within.' Galadriel has also told him, 'He will try to take the Ring - you know of whom I speak.' When they alight the boats on the banks of the Anduin - your pic of Boromir, still in the boat, fighting the call of the Ring - during the alternating shots of Frodo and Boromir, we see that Frodo is suspicious of him.

During their encounter at Amon Hen, Frodo is obviously distrustful of Boromir. Do you remember the half-blink discussion in The Faculty a while back? I can't think who started that one, but we spent a long time discussing Frodo's half-blinks in this scene with Boromir. It seems as though Frodo dare not close his eyes fully here for fear that Boromir will attempt to take the Ring.

With Boromir - and Faramir later - I think perhaps that Frodo reacts in more of a possessive/jealous manner. I think there is fear there, but fear born of the fact that he has developed an attachment to the Ring, and is reluctant (to say the least) to part with it. The struggle with Boromir illustrates this, I think. Look at Frodo's face as Boromir tries to grab the Ring. Even though he knows he couldn't possibly overpower a Man, there is no way Frodo is going to let him have it, and so he uses the Ring as a means of escape. With the Wiki I think the possessive element also has some bearing, but the close proximity of the Nazgul to the Ring is a more potent threat, making it far more dangerous for Frodo, and altogether more terrifying.

What can I say, Mariol - excellent comparisons again in your last couple of posts. A pleasure to look at and to read.:)

On to other things - the day is only an hour or so old here, but I'd like to sayA VERY HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO PRIM! I HOPE YOU HAVE A LOVELY DAY.

Tg - your screencaps never cease to amaze and delight me.:)

Hello again to Whiteling. It's good to have you back.

mariol, Gah, FORGIVE ME!! :o http://www.smilies.okipages.com/s/cwm/cwm/cwm14.gif I'm so sorry I have to keep doing this to you, but my orignal description was wrong. Right now all we need is one particular screencap, which comes a little later on in FotR than what you're showing. The WiKi draws his sword, steps out from the rest of the Naz, then there's an edit to the Morgul blade sort of "lighting up" from tip to hilt, which I guess is PJ's way of showing that the blade is sort of a phantom blade. There's a close-up of Frodo scooching backward, THEN The next scene edit is to the crucial camera angle where the screencap is from. The back of the Wiki is on the left, Frodo (about 15-20 feet in the distance) is in the middle, and the lit-up Morgul Blade is on the right. I think what really attracted my attention is how similar Faramir's Sword is to that Morgul blade -- Faramir's Blade is even held at an angle to make it a similar size.

I know I know I KNOW I'm being a total bug..bug bug http://catandmoon.com/hair.gif bug bug bug http://www.smilies.okipages.com/s/cwm/cwm/cwm14.gif but I saw it even on my first midnight viewing up TTT and nearly jumped out of my seat it was so cool.

*beg...supplicate...prostrate*

The angle is not as exact as I thought, but it certainly makes Faramir out to be very menacing. Meanwhile, Boromir is someone to be pitied. Frodo's line "It has taken Boromir" is pretty telling. The Boromir that caught Frodo several times is gone.

As for facial expressions: in the encounter with the WiKi, Frodo is not only afraid, but I don't think he knows what to be afraid of. With Faramir, Frodo is almost surprised along with fearful as he backs away. Men aren't supposed to act like this, and certainly without warning. Boromir gave plenty of warning, Faramir does not.

Hmmm... maybe this isn't what's really wanted, either :confused: , but I'll give it a try. I've screencapped the whole episode, so can post others if necessary. [The server is down for my free website space--whether from the storm or some other reason--so I can't post anything there right now. But I've "cleaned house" at my imagemagician account in order to have space for these.]

This first one is just for the family resemblance:

http://www.imagemagician.com/images/tgshaw/CoE/cap9865-85.jpg

I'm kind of proud of Frodo here. After scrambling to his feet, he stands solidly upright and doesn't start backing away until Faramir is actually advancing on him:

http://www.imagemagician.com/images/tgshaw/CoE/cap9893-85.jpg

http://www.imagemagician.com/images/tgshaw/CoE/cap9901-85.jpg

http://www.imagemagician.com/images/tgshaw/CoE/cap9928-85.jpg

There's a change from wariness (or "What the heck's happening?") to fear, but in typical EJW fashion it's so gradual you don't notice the change from frame to frame until it accumulates. These are from the beginning and end of the process:

http://www.imagemagician.com/images/tgshaw/CoE/cap9946-85.jpg

http://www.imagemagician.com/images/tgshaw/CoE/cap9974-85.jpg

But, as someone pointed out earlier, the real terror doesn't show up on Frodo's face until he senses the Ring starting to act:

http://www.imagemagician.com/images/tgshaw/CoE/capA0257-85.jpg

http://www.imagemagician.com/images/tgshaw/CoE/capA0279-85.jpg

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P.S. to Hobmom--Screencappers Anonymous meets at 8:00 pm on Tuesdays in the church basement (whenever any of us can drag ourselves away from the computer). ;)

Cool caps, tg! Yes, I think Frodo is pretty courageous in this scene. He's a spunky little guy.

Erendis, is this the one you mean? :confused: It's the first cap after the blade light-up/scootch back you mentioned:

http://home.ricochet.com/mdes/limages/wiki.jpg

There aren't any shots of the Wiki's head looming down from the back except the "advancing" high shot I posted above; the Wiki attack is filmed from closer in than Faramir's approach.

Tg-P.S. to Hobmom--Screencappers Anonymous meets at 8:00 pm on Tuesdays in the church basement (whenever any of us can drag ourselves away from the computer).

Do they have a cap-enabled computer at SA?:D ;)

Happy Birthday, Prim & Viola Took!

(to our newer Faculty members, yes, they're twins ;) )


Have a great, trout-free day, both of you. :k :k




Mariole, amazing work! Wow. Great supplementary caps, too, tg. Nothing to say, I just want to gaze. Oh yes, Frodo's one very stoic hobbit there. Very. :)

I agree, Blossom, that Frodo didn't trust Boromir at all towards the end there, but Frodo sure wasn't expecting an attack. Btw, I love that little snort he does, and the look on his face as he turns away from Boromir. Which probably irked Boromir even more, come to think of it. I think what makes the movie relationship between Frodo and Boromir so poignant is that in Boromir Frodo could have had a comrade who understood what he was going through, or at least someone who took the time to offer some empathy, only Frodo could never fully trust him because Frodo could sense that the Ring would snare Boromir first. But he certainly wasn't expecting murder. I do find it, well, comforting - if that's the right word to use - that Frodo doesn't blame Boromir. He tells Aragorn that "It has taken Boromir", and later during TTT we find out that Frodo had told Sam that the Ring was what had driven Boromir mad; he still wasn't blaming Boromir himself for the attack. Of course I am biased, because I really, really like Sean Bean's Boromir - even if everyone knew he was a goner the minute he tousled Frodo's hair that way ... and in the extended edition he's the only one who isn't shown receiving a gift from Galadriel. Poor guy. It was sooo obvious he'd never live to see the ending credits.

IMHO, the greatest thing about Boromir: He erred. He fell. But he never tried to make any excuses. That's honour. Ahhh, Boromir.


Originally posted by tgshaw
Oh, p-l-e-a-s-e.... you have to share the best ones... please?

Well ... if you'll allow me to link to your site for the images. Just for a few. :) I'm warning folks who don't want to have their understanding of TTT family ties warped beyond all measure, please skip everything in the quote space below:


scroll space for folks who don't want to read this


http://home.earthlink.net/~screencaps/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/cap9450-85.jpg

"Release him or I will divorce you."


http://home.earthlink.net/~screencaps/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/cap8794-85.jpg

"He didn't see when my child died."


And this one is strangely on-topic for KD discussions, in a bizarre way ... :p :D

http://home.earthlink.net/~screencaps/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/cap8340-85.jpg

"God's spirit always helps."







filler space for folks who don't want to read this. geez, do you guys know what you're missing? :D





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Meanwhile, Quint posted some news at AICN. He was down in NZ for a month. A MONTH! His first full report contains big Saruman spoilers for those so inclined. No, does not involve pointy wheels - so put those purist pikes away. ;)

Here're some interesting spoiler-free excerpts. Something for us to look forward to in future Quint reports:

It was some Shelob's Lair stuff with Elijah Wood and Andy Serkis (patience... all in due time)...

This bit tells us a bit about PJ's personalised directing techniques:

Peter runs up between takes and gives Lee a bit of direction. "That was good. That take was a bit too much Christopher... Now let's try for a little bit more Saruman. Make it more sarcastic."

Like the pro he is, Lee adjusts his performance and everything seems to click. Pete actually directs Christopher Lee more differently than I've seen him direct most of the other actors. He gives Lee lots of continuous takes. He keeps rolling after a take, throwing out a 5 second bit of direction...

A very happy birthday twice, prim and viola took! :) :)

Tg, thank you for your proud causing caps! Nice to see our little hero valiantly facing 'Boromir #2'.

I agree with all what Blossom and ainon said about Boromir. Nothing to add, except another "Poor guy!" Boromir's struggles are so human! Do you know what I mean? The battle between Good and Evil is always an internal one, too. Master Elrond is very right with his assessment "Men are weak."

ainon, the translated subtitles made me ROFL :) ! Btw, what language is it? Gollum as 'god's spirit'...oh my, it's unbelievable!
But seriously, this reminds me of the character of 'Mephisto' in Goethe's 'Faust' -

Faust. Well now, who are you then?
Mephistopheles. Part of that Power which would
The Evil ever do, and ever does the Good.
Faust. A riddle! Say what it implies!
Mephistopheles. I am the Spirit that denies!
And rightly too; for all that doth begin
Should rightly to destruction run;
'Twere better then that nothing were begun.
Thus everything that you call Sin,
Destruction - in a word, as Evil represent-
That is my own, real element.

Makes that sense to anybody?
Greetings :) !

thankyou Blossom, Ainon and whiteling.

Viola unfortunately is not my twin but my only-slightly-older sister. We could very well be twins though : we very distinctly have that "sister" look.
For some strange reason my beloved twin not only is the opposite of me in appearance but does not like Tolkein(!!! Yes, I have difficulty typing this and will probably be compelled to delete it shortly) and worse does not like the internet. Indeed, she pities me my membership of this board, and not that subtley either. :rolleyes:

Oh well, I almost internet-corrupted Azalea and Viola (except they are so damn busy which is really no excuse at all IMO. ;) ) But at least they are die hard Tolk fans. :cool:

Today a disaster except for a lovely lunch with the young Azalea. Week a disaster too. But it can only go up from here.(Touch wood)

Interruption over. Please continue. ;)

ainon--ROTFLMAO at the translations! (Poor Smegs should be in an opera; first gets divorced, then his child dies :( , but he never loses faith... :D ) As I said before, at least the people who put this together make better pictures than translations :) .

Sometimes I think I've figured out a Malaysian phrase or two only to see later that I was wrong--for awhile I thought perhaps "oak" was "white," because it always showed up in the subtitle when the "white wizard" was mentioned--but later realized it was a misspelling for "orc" :rolleyes: . I do think I've figured out "Tidak" though ;) (such incredible language skills I have :rolleyes: :p ).

http://www.imagemagician.com/images/tgshaw/TTT/capA0367-85.jpg


BTW, as far as I know, no one but "us folks" visits the screencaps site, so I really don't think there are any bandwidth use problems--link away. (As long as you don't put them on TORN or something :p .)

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Hobmom--Yes, there's one computer with a DVD drive at the SA meetings; part of the "aversion therapy" is fighting over whose turn it is :p .

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{{{Prim}}} :k and Happy Birthday! Hope RL looks up soon. I'll even include the Tolkien-deprived twin in my birthday greetings, just to show her what great folks we are :p .

YES YES YES YES THANK YOU!

*grovels*

*sings praises* http://fool.exler.ru/sm/ser.gif

http://home.ricochet.com/mdes/limages/adv3.jpg

The Morgul blade and Faramir's Sword are nearly identical in these caps. The angle is nearly identical too. That has to be deliberate. (I wonder if it's deliberate that Sam is in the TTT frame.) I still think Frodo has this "What the hell!?! Look I know you're a Smirking Son of Gondor but even your brother didn't act like this" look on his face.

Happy birthday, Prim and Viola Took!
I hope you have a lovely day. :k

Tg, are you sure you've got "Tidak" figured out? Based on the above screen captions, he could be shouting, "Dad!"

Edit:Just saw your post, erendis. Yea, I got the right one! :)

About those Smirking Sons of Gondor, their reactions should probably be investigated. But ... this isn't the right thread for that, is it? :confused:

Originally posted by mariol3b3
Tg, are you sure you've got "Tidak" figured out? Based on the above screen captions, he could be shouting, "Dad!"
Yes, you've got a point ;) , considering Frodo also shouts it when Gandalf falls into the abyss... there's some kind of parental relationship thing going on there, right? :p

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Later edit: Just because mine's still the last post...

I tried to post these last night but the "submit" page wouldn't open. They made me think immediately of the recent description of the Faculty Lounge as part "art gallery."

Unlike DVDs, VCDs don't have a "scene choice" feature, and even on "fast forward" you see everything go by--just very quickly. On the way to "Faramir's approach," I was speeding past the scene where Sam tells Frodo to put on the Ring and disappear, and thought, "Hmmm... there might be a couple of nice pics there. Maybe I can grab an avatar." So I went back later. Let me tell you, I was not prepared for what I found :eek: . Okay, I know the raw material's not bad, but, still, if this kind of shot doesn't figure into cinematography awards, it [i]should! Angles, shadows, lighting... After looking at them a bit, I realized that what it looks like is the kind of cinematography that would be used in a black-and-white movie, which makes perfect sense given the coloring used in the scene. Here are just a few examples (uh, yeah, I've got "several" more :o ):

http://www.imagemagician.com/images/tgshaw/TTT/capA0001-85.jpg

http://www.imagemagician.com/images/tgshaw/TTT/capA0033-85.jpg

http://www.imagemagician.com/images/tgshaw/TTT/capA0119-85.jpg

http://www.imagemagician.com/images/tgshaw/TTT/capA0154-85.jpg

same actor?!]

And another edit: Seeing these at the end of an actual post--right above my sig--made me realize how perfectly they fit naiad's description there of Elijah's acting.

Just popping in to wish Prim a

Happy Birthday, Prim!

Your twin is a non-Tolkienite? Pity. There are some things that twins should share!;) :D

The 'Avalon' and FOTR comparison photos are wonderful! An astounding piece of Faculty research! As are the Faramir/Wiki blade angle comparison shots! :) :cool: :)

I've been out and about during most of the July 4 long weekend (translate: at the beach or out trying to keep the garden from wilting in the heat) and although I have skimmed the last few pages, I confess to not having a clue what 'Tidak' is all about.:confused:

I've been planning all day to write a real post and comment on the many brilliant things said since my last one, but, uh, it's not happening. :(

I'm surprised no one commented on tg's "Frodo with sword but not Under the Influence" shot, and how it compares to the "Frodo with sword Under the Influence" - well, if you all won't, then I will - just you wait! :D

Happy Birthday, Prim!

http://www.pragueweddings.com/new/images/cake1.jpg

Sheryl

Originally posted by ainon
Happy Birthday, Prim & Viola Took!

(to our newer Faculty members, yes, they're twins ;) )


Have a great, trout-free day, both of you. :k :k



well, I know Prim has put you right (good save Prim, emphasising the only *slightly* greater age of moi), but far be it from me to deprive you of offering birthday wishes twice a year (January and July) :D :D :D


(that fresh trout was delicious too ;) )


viola

(just a smidgen older than prim, but looking like her twin anyway)

Oops. Sorry for rearranging sibling ties, Prim and Viola. :o Darn it. You guys seemed like twins. From an on-line POV. :p Ah well. Glad you enjoyed the trout, Viola, and hope the days will start looking up plenty soon, Prim!


-------------




Spoilers about The Witness


Originally posted by tgshaw

A question for anyone who's seen The Witness. I watched it again yesterday and it looked to me as if the "Little Boy" (Elijah's character) has been beaten between the second and third day that he stands at the fence. It doesn't seem to be until after that that the black eyes and bruises show up on his face. Has anyone else noticed that (or can anyone tell me I'm way off track?) ?

I rewatched it last night, and got some caps. Close-ups for Day 1 and Day 2, and then that blurry shot of Day 3 (?) was the best that I could get. I think it's just overdone angst/weary/forlorn-mess make-up. Here're the caps:

http://home.villagephotos.com/2003-7/13204/a'in/Day12.jpg http://home.villagephotos.com/2003-7/13204/a'in/Day3.jpg

This is the last clear view we get of him in the compound, on his last day:

http://home.villagephotos.com/2003-7/13204/a'in/lastview.jpg



/Spoilers




Originally posted by Goldenberry
... although I have skimmed the last few pages, I confess to not having a clue what 'Tidak' is all about.:confused:

You can see 'Tidak!' stamped at the bottom of the screen in tg's solitary very annoyed Frodo growling angstfully screencap. ;) It's the Malay word for "No". Pronounced 'tee-dak' with the 'dak' rhyming with 'dark' but without the 'r' sound. Fortunately not having anything to do with cross-species paternal bonds. :p

Excellent linguistics skills, tg. :D Oh, and the Malay word for white is 'putih'. I don't believe we have a Malay word for orcs - hmm, I wonder what would that word be properly translated as. Anyway, nice 'black-and-white' caps, tg. :)

The comment someone made above about Gollum's hands being so much bigger than Frodo's reminded me of this shot of captive Frodo (which didn't make it into movie TTT), attached. That son of Gondor must be huge! His hands wrap all around Elijah's upper arms even while Frodo's straining to break free.

Wonderful pics, comparisons, and interpretations over the past few days!As usual, catching up was amazing.

Happy belated birthday Prim and non-Tolkienite :cool: twin!

ainon--Why did you have to post 'linguistic' spoilers? I'd been having great fun translating those Malay subtitles and coming up with some delightful Engrishness :). But tidak apa ;).

tgshaw--Your 'black and white cinema' Frodo pics have lead me to the following mischievious comparison:
http://www.womenspb.ru/image/article/7-15-1.jpg
This lady is Vera Kholodnaia, a pre-WWI cinema diva.

Thank you for the birthday wishes all. :)

Ainon: your comment: You guys seemed like twins.err...I think you have totally annoyed us both!!!! :mad: :D

Brunhild: a trout headed your way. An old trout , past its use by date. Well past. ;)

Those caps of the poor child looking through the fence have reconfirmed my opinion that despite its merits this is one film I do not want to see. Even if the key actor was someone else than Elwood. A very disturbing theme.

Lovely to see Sheryl zoom past. Cool.

Lovely caps tg. I always hated that scene (not even remotely by any stretch of the imagination book canon etc) but I must look closely at it again when the dvd comes out. (See! An old dog can learn new tricks!!! So there is still hope for The Lamentable Twin!)