Ereshkigal, in your post, you are preaching to the choir -- in me. Too bad I'm not a soloist. (I'm an alto; we rarely get singled out.) :D

By the way, I finally saw Black and White and Ash Wednesday in the last three weeks; the first was hopeless for all concerned, but the second was a not-bad little "gritty" film, though with little help from EW, except that he looked exceptionally cute in it.

I agree with you on EW in The War. When I saw that film last year, especially after seeing a bunch of his other light-weight stuff in which he was really engaging and cute as h*ll, making his little chin wibble and his big ol' blues brim with fountains of pretty tears -- I thought, "HEY! Frodo wasn't a fluke (esp. in the darkest stuff in RotK) - This kid can really ACT!!!" I didn't know what it was about the Stu role, except that he really seemed to "inhabit" it, but I was totally convinced by his performance as an actor. He "pushed the envelope" of what he could do, just like you said. :k

And thank you, Ereshkigal, for mentioning Ed Norton. As you could tell from my earlier comments, I was thinking of him as an actor who COULD play Iggy. And he even researches his characters -- heavily -- and does all the whole method thing. Are his final performances lacking in spontaneity or freedom?

Like you, I am afraid EW won't "push the envelope" like he did as Stu or Frodo, as Iggy. I know he could do it, but will he do it, is what I am asking. Peeing off a fountain in front of his drunk friends, or blabbing about his testicle check-up (etc.) for TV laugh, is not the same thing as what would be required playing a character like Iggy. If he can do this, he will have arrived, as far as I'm concerned. But, if he doesn't, maybe he should go take some time off to work hard in an acting program until he can break through and get in touch what really makes him burn up a screen -- when he does it.

ETA: I wanted to take special note of this:

I also worry, sometimes, that he tries too hard to please, to not complain, to be a good sport and obey the director. Kirsten Dunst talked very candidly about this tendency of child actors, since they grow up in that environment. He seems too anxious to please, often times, and that may be counterproductive to playing someone as professionally obnoxious as Iggy Pop.

But still, I think he deserves props for even trying this role, and I'm curious as to how it will come out. But I have to admit I'll watch it with my eyes squenched shut, the same way I'd watch a car wreck, but I hope I'm pleasantly surprised. If he does this, if he pushes himself this far, I think he'll come away a much better actor. If he hesitates at all, he'll crash and burn.
Oh, Ereshkigal, I feel these things, too. I know I give the impression that I don't like EW, or don't like his work, but I do think he's a great little guy, and is capable of greatness in his work. I just worry that, out of a desire to please or a fear of going beyond his reach, he will end up with a career full of safe, but forgettable film acting. And that would be a huge waste of a really special talent.


Shilohmm, you are absolutely right that EW would be researching the heck out of Iggy Pop before he plays him. :k And I am TOTALLY thankful for that. Let EW shake in his shoes so that he might fully research the role he is about to play. Any why will he do that to play Iggy? Because Iggy's a living person, a celebrity, an icon; and Iggy's fans would flay him if he didn't. Fans of the book characters he has played have been much more lenient. Why should he research them? They're not "real."

~ Mechtild

I apologize profusely to anyone I inadvertently offended or misread. I'm just really confused right now.

Ereshkigal said: I also worry, sometimes, that he tries too hard to please, to not complain, to be a good sport and obey the director. Kirsten Dunst talked very candidly about this tendency of child actors, since they grow up in that environment. He seems too anxious to please, often times, and that may be counterproductive to playing someone as professionally obnoxious as Iggy Pop.

How is can one over-please one's director? Are you saying he can't play Iggy Pop unless he throws a few fits? I think I'm not understanding what your driving at.

Mechtild said: Just to be clear, honey, I never meant to imply that EW ought to be doing impersonations of JSF, when I said I thought he ought to have shown more interest in learning about the Jewish background to the story and the character he was playing. I am sorry that I gave that impression. I was merely taken aback that EW took the Jewishness of the character as so inconsequential.

What would understanding the jewish background of the story have brought to the role of Jonathan that was missing? Elijah grew up with the Bible, says he "believes in it" whatever that means to him. So he's probably got ar least a passing familiarity with the Old Testament. Does that qualify him? He did that narration work on I'm Still Here, the special dealing with the diaries of Jewish children during the Holocaust. Does that qualify him? What did he need to add? Are you just saying that you didn't like the flipness of his answer, or that there was some fundamental "it" that was missing in his characterization of Jonathan?

Mechtild said: Like you, I am afraid EW won't "push the envelope" like he did as Stu or Frodo, as Iggy. I know he could do it, but will he do it, is what I am asking. Peeing off a fountain in front of his drunk friends, or blabbing about his testicle check-up (etc.) for TV laugh, is not the same thing as what would be required playing a character like Iggy. If he can do this, he will have arrived, as far as I'm concerned.

I shouldn't have brought those incidents up, or maybe I should have explained why I was bringing them up at all. I think Elijah's got a bit of a dark side that he doesn't necessarily like to display. He likes to fly under the radar as a celebrity, so he won't allow himself to get caught throwing a phone at a waiter like other, more seasoned actors we might name. But that doesn't mean that he's all sweetness and light. There's more to the man than welling eyes, and a wibbly chin, and much more than what he allows to be seen in interviews. But I don't see where his professional comprotment has held him back, or inhibited his acting at all.

I think Elijah can really uncork (no pun intended) in this Iggy role. Yes, Iggy is a real person and Elijah should research it to death. But where's the art if he's just impersonating Mr. Pop? It reminds me of a thing that Miles Davis said once about Stevie Ray Vaughn; he said that SRV could do more with one or two notes than many musicians could do by hitting every note spot on. I think Elijah could play Iggy off stage extremely well with his slightly restrained approach, and then blow our collective socks off with the "performance" moments.

I'm really fascinated with this discussion and the ideas and doubts that are coming up. Please know that I'm really just trying to understand.

honey!

I don't know if this is a good time or a bad time... but someone needs to start thread x11. :z: I got here a bit late because I couldn't remember where I'd read that the limit had changed to 500 posts, and I didn't want to lock the thread when it was only half done if I'd disremembered, so I had to go ask one of the other mods.

Half of me says, "Time for some picspam!" The other half doesn't want to disrupt the discussion. But we do have to start the new thread. I'll lock this one when the new one's started -- why doesn't whoever's ready to make the next post start the new thread, and just keep things going? I can lock this thread without moving it to the Barrow Downs immediately, in order to make it easier to look back at previous quotes while the discussion's going on.

I'm leaving the office and heading home, so will check back in when I get there.

Thanks, tg, for the heads-up. Before the thread is Barrow Downs-ed:

I think Elijah can really uncork (no pun intended) in this Iggy role. Yes, Iggy is a real person and Elijah should research it to death. But where's the art if he's just impersonating Mr. Pop? It reminds me of a thing that Miles Davis said once about Stevie Ray Vaughn; he said that SRV could do more with one or two notes than many musicians could do by hitting every note spot on. I think Elijah could play Iggy off stage extremely well with his slightly restrained approach, and then blow our collective socks off with the "performance" moments.
This will be great, honey. But are we being premature getting all excited about the Iggy role? Maybe this Iggy Pop role is a drop in the bucket, anyway. Does anyone know if this film a) is actually going to happen and b) if the role is more than one cameo among many, say, in a film trying to establish a certain era by having a bunch of people playing various famous 80's celebs?

He likes to fly under the radar as a celebrity, so he won't allow himself to get caught throwing a phone at a waiter like other, more seasoned actors we might name.
I didn't mean to imply that EW couldn't "open up" as an actor unless he went ballistic in his private life. I was only talking about his opening up in a film role. I don't follow the career of method actor Viggo Mortensen, but I have always got the impression that, apart from expressing some controversial political opinions, Viggo leads a pretty private sort of private life. He's not out courting the spotlight or "acting out" in public. Yet, I am sure that if he accepted a role, no matter what the role demanded of him, he would try to do it with every faculty he had (intuitive, emotional, intellectual, etc.) -- and more. He would fwap his Person on an amplifier box, if that scene were in the screenplay, and just do it, full on, and think, "Well, that's the role I signed on for." Mortensen seems up to anything, once he has committed himself to a role. It doesn't seem to have anything to do with him being an exhibitionist in real life.

I think EW, from reading this thread for a year and a half, is amazingly mature for his age about his private life. I respect him for that. I applaud him for that! I do think he could both take more initiative and greater responsibility for his career, though, as an actor. I am not saying he is a flop or is doing poor or even mediocre work. I just don't see him choosing roles -- or performing the roles he chooses -- up to his full potential.

Oh, I guess I am done carrying on. I don't mean to rail. Forgive me. :z: :)

~ Mechtild

Guess I'm the next one planning to post -- I've started the new thread, but just put up a bare-bones post to have it up, and need to go back and actually make some comments.

As I said, I'll lock this thread, but will leave it on the board for a a little while before archiving it.

Okay, second try for this! The next episode of this thread (x11) can be found here:
http://www.khazaddum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3898