TG, thank you for the Casey pages! I love Casey for being such a tough little guy! They may have beat him up everyday, but they couldn't beat him down, and you just gotta love that tenacious spirit! It is really Casey's story, and that was such fun to discover the first time I watched it. (He's an awful lot like Frodo, isn't he? OK, he swears more, but...)

Discovering several of Elijah's movies over the past couple of years as been an amazing experience. In the case of "The Faculty", "Avalon", "The Bumblebee Flies Anyway", and "The War" it was a real pleasure to step into a movie I was unfamiliar with, and find that the very actor who's work I'd come to enjoy was the pivotal character!

That's one of the reasons I look forward to "Hooligans" and "Everything is Illuminated." We've only had "All I Want" as a star vehicle for Elijah, since the trilogy came out (and that one didn't get far, did it?) I'm ready to see him take another movie and dribble it down the field for a GOAL!!! (to borrow a 'football' metaphor.)

Next week I'm going to the Pacific Northwest, and I'll get to spend some time with Alyon! :) We're going to see "North" for the first time! (if the postman is kind! :z: ) I can hardly wait! :D

honey!

thanks tg!! :k :k

i`ve found it not the rifgt page but the post was right
but i found it so it dosen`t matter!!!!!! :k :k

i saw the faculty the other night and i must say i realy think the
movie is quit good: i love watching casey from beeing a geak to become
the hero!!
and i diden`t have to watch it alone my 15 year old son think it was a good
movie!!

this week i have been home from work i haven`t been feeling very well
so i have watched many elijah movies.
i have seen the hole trilogy with extra material,faculty and bumbelbee
and the war!!and all those movies have becom my favorite!!

the trilogy lays a head the others of curse!!
but i love watching him in action !!!!!!

LOVE YOU ALL/WOOD

I love Casey for being such a tough little guy! They may have beat him up everyday, but they couldn't beat him down, and you just gotta love that tenacious spirit!

I'm not much for the gore, but I still love The Faculty. Aside from LOTR, it's the only EW movie that's generated much fanfic - and it's generated a lot, much of it quite high quality. There's just something about Casey... :)



We're going to see "North" for the first time! (if the postman is kind! :z: ) I can hardly wait! :D


I hope you review it here. ;) That's one that's gotten mixed first reactions, IIRC. Very mild semi-spoiler rest of this paragraph. I seem to remember a lot of people felt that Elijah just played "straight man" to crazy characters, so his acting didn't have much range. I disagreed. :p

I should follow wood's example and watch the background stuff for the trilogy this week - I still haven't watched any of the extras with ROTK. :eek:

Sheryl

I hope you review it here. ;) That's one that's gotten mixed first reactions, IIRC. Very mild semi-spoiler rest of this paragraph. I seem to remember a lot of people felt that Elijah just played "straight man" to crazy characters, so his acting didn't have much range. I disagreed. :p
That's one of the things I said in my review (http://www.frodolivesin.us/ejw/id22.htm) of it, but you have to look at the circumstances... :o Like most of my reviews of pre-LotR EJW movies, it was written during the "Kill me now!" days, and I was writing them for "anti-fans," if you will, so I tried to be extremely honest especially about negative aspects of the movies, in order to keep any credibility with them. Back in those days, I was also listing the movies in order from best to... whatever... instead of using the 1-5 stars system, so something had to be at the bottom (actually, that was Paradise; North came in just above it). I've done bits and pieces of edits to some of the reviews since then, but I haven't gone back and completely rewritten them, because, after all, I had been trying to be honest. After the appearance of TAMTSNBN, I did add the note that I didn't think even North or Paradise were bad--just not as good as the other movies on the list. (Of course, by that time, I was writing for EJW fans, which really does make a difference! :k I feel much freer now to admit that I enjoy something that other people might not.)

North is also the only one of Elijah's feature movies that isn't available (yet :z: ) on region 1 DVD. So I haven't been able to really study Elijah's acting in it the way I have in other movies.


North spoilers to end of post




I haven't changed my opinions on the following:

--Compared to most of his other movies, Elijah's acting isn't the greatest, but it's really some of the adult actors that I have more trouble with.

--I really do find the Eskimo segment distasteful, as I just can't feel that it's proper to make comedy out of the practice of killing the elderly, especially in a children's movie.

--I really do think the movie's ending is completely wrong. I felt somewhat supported in this when I read the book and found out that it doesn't destroy the fantasy at the end at all. (IMHO, the book is much better than the movie. In some ways it's almost a children's version of Everything Is Illuminated, without the historical chapters--and without Alex's English :D . What North actually discovers--in Eastern Europe--is his Jewish heritage. Which makes the movie's addition of the Easter Bunny more odd than it would be otherwise... :confused: )

None of which means I really think it's a bad movie. It's one of those movies, though, that could have been much better than it was (IMHO).

So, does that provide some discussion material :p ? BTW, IIRC, North is the movie that let Brunhild see how good an actor Elijah was. So, different strokes, definitely. ;) But, then, Elijah didn't have much to do with the aspects of the movie I had the biggest problems with.

ETA: Hmmm.... Now if they would have taken Abe Vigoda out of that Eskimo segment and cast him as the aging Jewish comedian who acts as North's guide in the book...

Morning to you all!!!! :k :k

i must say that the more i hear about this movie North

the more curiose i get!!! this is a movie i woulde like to see
with my one eyes!!

was it realy bad TG???

and what about his other movie Black and White??

that one i also woulde like to see!!
do you have any pictures from those two movies on
your site??
i have to go and look!!!!!
i wonder if BLACK AND WHITE are in the stores here
but i doubt that!!

LOVE YOU ALL/WOOD

edit: since there is a little discution about casey i d´found this little thing!!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v399/erendil/3340thefaculty-promo-013.jpg

wood

(Since you asked, Wood) :p I liked North. It wasn't one of my favorites, but I enjoyed it. I didn't seem to be bothered by some of the humor as others were. I saw the whole Eskimo thing as black humor, a la CoF, which I enjoy. The whole mob-leader kid thing (the kid who plays an antagonist to North) was very enjoyable. I like earnest, sincere heroes. I'd definitely give it a rent, if nothing else. As I never read the book, I don't know what I'm missing! :p

Tg, great action shots of Casey and wonderful commentary, as always. Elijah really has a luminous quality, doesn't he, even when he's in a dorky plaid shirt? :) Cheers.

wood wrote:
this week i have been home from work i haven`t been feeling very well
so i have watched many elijah movies.
Sorry to hear that you’ve been ill; but glad that you found (as I did when I was sick last month) how therapeutic Elijahfilms are (esp. the trilogy). Maybe we should refer to them, when used this way, as “Elijahcillin”? “Woodibiotics”??

Regarding North: tgshaw, I agree with your criticism of “some of the adult actors,” and with your distaste for the “Eskimo” segment. And wasn’t there also an Amish bit, which was brief but very stereotyped? I thought Elijah did a decent job, but the whole thing just struck me as rather strained and clunky, and not as funny as it wanted to be. I’ve seen this movie only once, at Achila’s (she likes it more than I do), and I don’t think I would buy a DVD of it; whereas I do own Paradise (and have watched it more than once), and the much-maligned Ash Wednesday.

(And tg, thanks for your lovely Casey pages. He’s one of my favorite EJW characters – no doubt because I myself was pretty much of an outsider geek in high school.)

Ereshkigal wrote (a few days ago):
I'm sorry to be so demanding, but all of you who do actually get a chance to see Hooligans, either through distribution in your own country or the random film festival in the US, simply must, must, must give us play-by-plays of all the action and your opinions on the One Lad's ability to handle each scene.
So maybe I will take my own advice (on how to camouflage your real reasons for seeing Sin City) and carry a notebook into the theater when Achila and I see Hooligans at Tribeca the week after next. As I said to her, it’s easier for middle-aged female Elijah fans to "disguise" themselves at Sin City (which has an “arty” image, a well-known director, and quite a few big-name stars) than for seeing Hooligans (which has, well, basically, Elijah).

Sorry to hear that you’ve been ill; but glad that you found (as I did when I was sick last month) how therapeutic Elijahfilms are (esp. the trilogy). Maybe we should refer to them, when used this way, as “Elijahcillin”? “Woodibiotics”??

Pelagia, I like your suggestion. Just image the face of the pharmacist when you order those medicaments! :D Oh, and for emergencies I'd prefer to have an "Elijancy room", please :p!

Regarding North: (...) I thought Elijah did a decent job, but the whole thing just struck me as rather strained and clunky, and not as funny as it wanted to be.

I couldn't find "North" funny, not at all. But I blame partly the horrible German dubbing for that. The dialogue editors had taken definitely the wrong drugs :rolleyes:.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0903/whiteling/North_Texas.jpg

I felt a little like North in this picture - sitting in front of a huge T-bone-steak... and being a vegetarian. :eek: :p

And tg, thanks for your lovely Casey pages.
Yes, I second that :)! Only in the screencaps I discovered that in the baths where Casey slithers round the corners of the swimming pool is a picture of a giant octopus on the wall - very similar to the revealed alien. :cool:

was it realy bad TG???
No, not really bad--just not as good as most of his others (IMHO).

Mariole, I don't think the Eskimo segment would have bothered me so much in an R-rated movie like CoF, but I wouldn't want little kids watching it without someone there to talk to them about it. I'd think it could be kind of disturbing for kids who still think the world revolves around them: "If I wasn't here, would grandpa not have died?"

Pelagia, I think the various families are basically all stereotyped, but I think that's on purpose. Something else I'm not sure is the best decision for a children's movie. Maybe if someone older is there to talk about it: "Do you think all [fill in the blank] people act like that?"

Something that I said in my original review that kind of fits here, I think, is that much of the humor is aimed at adults. That's okay in a kids' movie if the adult humor goes over their heads, but I'm afraid a lot of this humor could confuse them. JMHO--YMMV.

But, no, not a bad movie--just one where I think younger kids may need some guidance (what PG is supposed to mean, although it seems a lot of parents ignore that). Even the ending might not bother me so much if I weren't a diehard fantasy reader; IMHO, a movie shouldn't have to apologize for being fantasy. (I mean, compare North to the same director's The Princess Bride--no apology there!)

--I love the scheming kid; like an evil incarnation of Richie Rich.

and what about his other movie Black and White??

that one i also woulde like to see!!
The tables are kind of turned on that one, because, IIRC, I rate that one higher than most people here. It's a disturbing, dark, despairing, sometimes disgusting movie. But that's exactly what it wants to be, so I give it points for accomplishing its goal. It wants to leave the viewer with the feeling that the world is a nasty place. This movie has no identity crisis!

BTW, Elijah's part is very small, if that makes any difference to how much you want to see it.

do you have any pictures from those two movies on
your site??
Nothing from North, simply because it's not on region 1 DVD, so I have no way to screencap it. Some movie-related sites have stills from it, mostly from promotional pics. I try to be copyright-friendly on my site, and only post screencaps I've made myself from legitimately bought VCD/DVDs. The one exception I've made for that is Day-O. If whoever owns the copyright to that wants to make it impossible to get hold of a legal copy, well... :rolleyes: (That's also why a lot of my TTT caps are on my "freebie" site instead of the main one. I should redo them sometime from a *ahem* legal *ahem* source, but there's so much else to do!)

The "so much else to do" is my only excuse for not having any screencaps posted from Black & White, as I do have it on DVD. But Elijah's part in it is really small, so there wouldn't be much sense in posting whole scenes from it like I do with movies where he has more screentime. I still don't have any scenes posted from Radio Flyer, The War, Bumblebee, ESOTSM, or Paradise, and I think all of those would be above B&W on my list. Before the end of the month, I should make it my aim to at least get a couple of pics on the review page for each of the movies that I've gotten on DVD. That would include B&W

....If I didn't have that pesky day job... :rolleyes:

-------------

ETA:

from Whiteling:
Only in the screencaps I discovered that in the baths where Casey slithers round the corners of the swimming pool is a picture of a giant octopus on the wall - very similar to the revealed alien.
Yeah, I really had to look at that before I felt sure enough to say "in print" that it was a squid. Close-ups, different angles... The shots aren't real clear, and for awhile I thought the whole thing might be a map, with the squid being an island or something. The film credits thank the Texas School for the Deaf, so I assume that's where the scenes were shot that needed school facilities, and I really am curious to know if that mosaic was already there or if it was added for the movie.

------------

ETA-again: FWIW, it took us exactly a month to get to the halfway point in this thread. :cool:

SPOLER..kinda (the whole thing)

Just to add my two cents in the North discussion. I think all the families are stereotyped because it's Norths dream and that's how he imagines things to be. Elijah said that in an interview as well....

Yes, I'd agree with that, Bohemian. Everything is very much through a child's view of what they think things would be like.

I don't think it's a very good film, frankly. Intentions were good, but it all just sort of falls flat. As always, I enjoyed Elijah's performance, though. I just can't help it. :rolleyes: ;)


On another front, the official Hooligans website has gone live here (http://www.hooligansthefilm.com/).

And here is a still from there:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v32/bunniebugs/Elijah/website3a.jpg

Bohemian--Since there are some people here who haven't yet seen North, would you mind editing in a "spoiler" warning at the top of your last post? It does kinda... um... give away the ending. :o (And exactly why, as a fantasy buff, I "have issues" with it. :rolleyes: ) Thanks. :k

Thanks for the new Hooligans link, Bunnie. :)

Bunnie - Thanks so much for posting the link to the official Hooligans site.

I have mixed feeling about this one. By all accounts it's a good - albeit violent - film with a strong story, and Elijah has received positive reviews for his role as Matt. :) I'm not exactly a prude, and I can tolerate some bad language, but from what I have read this film is postively awash with it! My problem, I know - but it does really put me off seeing it.

However, I have to say that the two songs from the soundtrack featured on the site are wonderful! I listened to them about three times each. One Blood reminds me of Brothers In Arms by Dire Straits - I would swear that was Mark Knopfler playing guitar. It's sung by Terence Jay, who I see is actually an actor in the film. Beautiful! I even liked Test Of A Man and I'm not exactly a rap fan! Thanks for that. :)

I have mixed feeling about this one. By all accounts it's a good - albeit violent - film with a strong story, and Elijah has received positive reviews for his role as Matt. :) I'm not exactly a prude, and I can tolerate some bad language, but from what I have read this film is postively awash with it! My problem, I know - but it does really put me off seeing it. Bad language doesn't generally bother me, but have you seen Ash Wednesday? I was appalled at how often they swore, and found myself thinking, "Surely no one really talks like that?" But I suspect that this one will be similar. I'm going to try not to let it bother me, but I may be watching some of the fighting through my fingers.

However, I have to say that the two songs from the soundtrack featured on the site are wonderful! I listened to them about three times each. One Blood reminds me of Brothers In Arms by Dire Straits - I would swear that was Mark Knopfler playing guitar. I kept thinking the same thing! From the very first guitar notes, I expected it to be Brothers In Arms; I wonder if that was intentional?

I know a few people who saw the film at the Malibu Film Festival this weekend, and they have nothing but good things to say about it. I really (reallyreallyreally) hope the US distributors wake up soon and sign this thing. :mad:

I am yet another bad language wimp. It really bothered me in AW, but largely because it struck me as simply lazy writing. You can't be interesting if your entire dialogue is various expletives-- I'm sorry, you just can't. H might be better, if the cursing is used as dialect. If it's just cursing, I won't enjoy it either. *waits once again for the scouts* :)

The two times I've watched Ash Wednesday, I've found myself counting how many times they use the "*-word." It really borders on ridiculous!

Thanks for the link to the "Hooligans" web-site, Bunnie!

Is there any possibility, do you think, that we might see a VCD from "Yes! Asia?" Of course some kind of distribution deal for the US would be preferable. :z:

Pelagiasaid: Sorry to hear that you’ve been ill; but glad that you found (as I did when I was sick last month) how therapeutic Elijahfilms are (esp. the trilogy). Maybe we should refer to them, when used this way, as “Elijahcillin”? “Woodibiotics”??

Then Whiteling said: Pelagia, I like your suggestion. Just image the face of the pharmacist when you order those medicaments! Oh, and for emergencies I'd prefer to have an "Elijancy room", please !

:lol: My husband "diagnosed" me, (and all of you, by extension) as being in a bit of a post-Ring funk. Some Elijachiatry, or maybe Elijatherapy, would do all of us wonders, I think! Is it August yet?

honey

I was appalled at how often they swore, and found myself thinking, "Surely no one really talks like that?" But I suspect that this one will be similar.

*waits once again for the scouts*

waves hands in air
I'll do it! I worked for ten years in an industry where swearing was as natural as breathing - I still haven't managed to clear my own speech of expletives as much as I would like to, despite the fact that I left that industry five years ago. So yes, people really do talk like that. :rolleyes: I should have been a sailor. :D

The language in Ash Wednesday didn't even phase me - it felt natural enough to me. Usually, as long as it's language the characters would use, I hardly even notice it in a film - for me, it would feel unnatural if characters I know would swear in real life didn't swear. (The only movie that I ever found it too much in was Get Shorty, and I think that's because not only was the f-word too frequently used, but it was often enormously out of place. It made me want to wash John Travolta's mouth out with soap. :D )

And I'm ashamed to say that if Elijah starred in a movie where the only plot was that the characters competed to see who could swear the longest blue streak, I'd still watch it. At least once. :D For research purposes, of course. :D

Re: the use of foul language in Ash Wednesday. I wasn't fazed either, and I think it was mostly because the language fit the characters, to me. The part of the world they're from is rough, it's a badge of belonging and acceptance to speak that way, and in fact, you'd stick out more if you didn't. But listen carefully to the *way* Elijah enunciates "that" word when he does. There are rocks in it. It's not thrown out casually, it means something when Sean says it. Then go back and listen to Casey and Jones Dillon too -- again, that particular invective is pronounced appropriately. Very good. If you're going to curse, at least it should mean something. ;)

I'm sure that the language in Hooligans is a similar issue. It's part of belonging to the clique, etc. Of course, we here in the States don't "understand" the familiar usage of the "c-word" the way the Brits do, and never will (nor will I ever like it).

On a wholly different topic -- is there anyone who would like the Asian VCD of Chain of Fools? I bought the DVD and was planning to donate it to a charity who's collecting used books and media and so on, but if someone on here wants it, it's yours. Please PM me and I'll be happy to send it to you.

If you're going to curse, at least it should mean something. ;) I think that's precisely why the cursing bothered me in AW! It was peppered throughout the dialog, at least once and sometimes twice per sentence. It didn't "mean" anything! It was just like liberally applied spice, and too much of it, at that. I suppose there are people who really do talk that way, to the point where the curses are just added noise, so frequently used that they cease to even add any real force to the language. I have never known anyone personally who swore quite that much.

Like I said, normally I'm not put off by swearing in a film. The first time I saw The Faculty, it was on TV, with the curses all dubbed over, and it bugged me so much I went out and rented it not that long after (I should know better than to try to watch most films on television!). I agree that it can add color and realism to the dialog. (As a side note to that, I don't know how many of you watch "24", but it is very gritty and intense, and I often find myself thinking that the characters would have had something much more, erm, emphatic to say than they are allowed on broadcast television. ;) )

I'm very curious to see how the cursing in Hooligans compares to AW. I don't really expect to be bothered by it, especially as much of it will be in dialect, but I really hope that they don't go overboard, to the point of distraction, like they did in AW.

On the other hand, maybe if AW had been a better film, it wouldn't have been such a distraction... but that's a whole different topic. :D

morningall!!! :k :k

pelagia, I woulde love too see the face of our pharmacy :lol: :lol:

tg,thanks for opinions of North!! :k

bunniebugs,thanks for the hooligans link. saw that it propebly will
come to scandinaivia to the fall!!!! :k :k

BIG "WAVES" TOO ACHILA :k

well the language in hooligans won`t freak me out becuse i am a big sweare
my self :cool:

whiteling,hope that won`t stop you from meting me!! ;)

honey,post ring funk!!!! give your hubby a hug that was funny :lol: :lol: :lol:

LOVE YOU ALL/WOOD

Usually, I don't like too much foul language in films. What is "too much"? It really depends on the characters. Like others said - if the language fits the character, I can bear it.
Sometimes I find the swearing rather funny, in cases where it is so over the top, you just can't take it serious any more. I'm rather fond of the Brit comedy "Absolutely fabulous" - there's one scene where the main character, Edina (she swears a lot!:p), is heavily unnerved by her mother. Mother tries to make tea in her daughter's kitchen and is trying to find her way...

Mother: Now, what might one use to put the tea into the pot with?
Edina: A spoon... a bloody buggery teaspoon.
Mother: Oh. A bloody buggery teaspoon. That sounds rather clever. And where does one fill the kettle, from the bloody marvellous tap, I suppose?
:D

Bunnie, many thanks for the Hooligans link :)! But no distribution for Germany?!? :( Oh no!



well the language in hooligans won`t freak me out becuse i am a big sweare
my self :cool:

whiteling,hope that won`t stop you from meting me!! ;)

You swear in your mother tongue, don't you? I always can make excuses that I have no idea what you are saying ;).

Yes, Honey, give your PJ-Doppelgänger hubby a hug from me, too :).

I'm sure that the language in Hooligans is a similar issue. It's part of belonging to the clique, etc. Of course, we here in the States don't "understand" the familiar usage of the "c-word" the way the Brits do, and never will (nor will I ever like it).


What Achila says here highlights one of my concerns about Hooligans. That is that people in other countries will get the impression that this is what is normal for the UK. Most of the people I meet in my home, work and social life would rarely utter the f-word, although I admit it slips from my mouth occasionally, and I can't even remember the last time I was in the vicinity of someone who used the c-word. In fact, until the LOTR boys started talking about it, I hadn't realised it was still used much. Perhaps it is a London, rather than UK wide thing. The kind of people portrayed in Hooligans do exist, but they are in a real minority. I don't know if any of you saw The Full Monty - I loved the film, but it made my (in parts beautiful) home town look like such a depressed dump, and I cringed at the thought of Americans seeing it.

I find that if the swearing fits the characters and setting of a film, I don't even notice it. I think the linguistic term is redundant - kind of like saying 'hi - nice weather today' just to make pleasantries, rather than intending to actuallly impart any information about the weather. I have watched The Faculty about 5 times, but if anyone had asked me if there was any swearing in the film I wouldn't have been able to answer them.

As regards North, I think that if you are like me and take your films at face value and simply as 2 hours escapism, you will enjoy it. Until other people started pointing out some very valid negative points about it, I hadn't looked at it with a critical eye at all. I enjoyed Elijah's performance and all the fun they poked at human failings.

The Alaska scenes may have been cruel, but what they were doing with Grandpa was a rather good metaphor for the way a lot of old people are simply off loaded into homes by their families.

What Achila says here highlights one of my concerns about Hooligans. That is that people in other countries will get the impression that this is what is normal for the UK. Most of the people I meet in my home, work and social life would rarely utter the f-word, although I admit it slips from my mouth occasionally, and I can't even remember the last time I was in the vicinity of someone who used the c-word. Skater girl, I didn't mean to imply that *everyone* in the UK speaks this way, and I'm sure that no one else will either. But there have surely been other films -- Sexy Beast and anything by Guy Ritchie comes to mind -- where the "c-word" is extremely abundant and used "correctly" -- i.e., in its somewhat less vulgar context. It's a word we women still have a really hard time with, and you can bet that the ONLY time it has ever passed my lips or "pen" is when I'm writing dialog for the LOTR guys in one of my fanfic stories! (And even then, I've only done it once, and it was recently.)

Just one thing further to add to the AW discussion, Bunnie, it may have appeared that the use of foul language was meaningless, but I personally do think it had meaning. Again, that's the dialect of the street. Perhaps it didn't have to be several times every sentence -- I agree with you there -- but Ed Burns was trying to establish the very tough existence of these people, and I did feel that the language fit what he was trying to do.

[Whiteling], I love AbFab!

And yeah -- the dubbing of the language in "The Faculty" for non-cable TV produces some howlers -- "Forget you!" is my personal favorite! ;)

On the topic of rough language in movies, I agree with the posters who don’t mind it so long as it’s appropriate for the characters. After all, it would be pretty unbelievable to see the kind of person who goes around getting in brawls over sports teams, using “Oh, pshaw!” as an expletive. Also, like Narya Celebrian, I’ve worked in places “where swearing was as natural as breathing,” and my own language has become much more – um – colorful as a result. Which, no doubt, is why I don’t wince at Elijah’s language. As I mentioned to Achila, there’s only one four-letter word I’ve ever seen him use that I haven’t used myself (and that’s the word that will probably cause most of the controversy in Hooligans, at least in the US).

wood wrote, regarding the medical aspects of EJW fandom (e.g., my “Elijahcillin,” Whiteling’s “Elijancy room,” and honeyelf’s “Elijachiatry”):
I woulde love too see the face of our pharmacy
How about this, for a promotional piece??
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v653/Lalage/Dr.jpg

well,whitling i promis you if i feel the need to swear
when i`m with you and serena i will swear in swedish!! :k :k

pelagia,if our pharmacy looked that way.i woulde go there
every time and made up many diffrent resons for buying
medication!!!!!! but maybe not the one you mentiond!!! :p :D :cool:
:lol:

LOVE YOU ALL/WOOD

I've enjoyed eavesdropping on your chats about the use of swearing and/or vulgar language. Personally, I try never to use it and hate hearing it. I indulged in vulgar language post-college, living in NYC, perhaps as a sign of liberation and because it was used around me quite a bit among my friends and acquaintance (but I smoked then, too - anything can be given up). But once I had a child, the sound of an obscenity coming out of her mouth made me realise how much I really did hate hearing it. So I stopped, cold turkey.

My father swore a lot when I was growing up, though he never uttered the words people toss around now. He only did this when he lost his temper; this gave every obscene word extra force and ugliness. I felt it when I heard it, and I still do, when such words are spoken in an angry tone of voice. That's why I hated hearing it in rap music. Every f*** sounds like a punch or jab. I suppose that is the point, but I find it hardly pleasurable. It is an impediment for me being able to like or admire the person who uses this language.

Here's an example. In Bridget Jone's Diary, a film I really enjoyed, I was able to weather all the f***s spoken by her friends and associates. But Colin Firth never sank to using this sort of speech. When, at the end, in their last scene together, he said it, although laughingly, I wanted to cry. For me, he had spoiled the whole appeal of his character. I suppose it was to show he was cool, too, and a "real man."

But, I will agree that the use of obscene language is tolerable according to its setting.

A few years ago, my daughter was watching one of the many favourite films of mine and my husband's, which are set in recent-day Ireland. Every other word was f***. My daughter asked pointedly, "How come you hate it when every other word is f*** in some movie about hip hip people, Mom, but you don't mind when Irish people say it? Is it because you are a racist?"

This was a good question. Why did I hate it in the movie we watched about gangs in the inner city of Philadelphia, but it didn't bother me in The Commitments or The Snapper? I suppose it was a matter of the tone of the words when spoken. In the inner city movie, all those f***s and motherf******s were said with elbows to the ribs, or a short jab to the solar plexus, even if they ran off the tongues of its characters like water. But, in those Irish comedies, all the expletives just seemed to be said as if each one stood in for "very" or "really", with no negative intent behind them at all.

I told my daughter, further, that the heavy use of obscenity was done to help to show that the people in the films lived in poor societies. The people in the Irish (and British) comedies were all from poor neighborhoods, as were the African-Americans in that wretched neighbourhood in Philadelphia. It merely showed they hadn't really learned other ways to speak.

How's that for snotty? And how's that for simply wrong? For, as I have opened my ears since then - since becoming an LotR fan and seeing more films and reading messageboards; and as I listen to more teenagers and young people speaking who come from the "middle" classes, I see that the use of what I would call "extreme" obscenities is now ubiquitous and has nothing to do with class or education.

I sigh over it, though. It is as ugly to my ears as graffiti is to my eyes.

~ Mechtild

well i hope that i am swearing a lot don`t make me a
bad person! :(

becuse i can tell you i am not!
and i dont think anybody think so either!!

But it isen`t alwayes i hear it my self
it is usally my hubby who is pointing it out to me!!

aspecelly when i nagg about my 15 .old son is swearing!!! :(

sorry ladies can`t figuering out who to do this on-toppic!! :(


LOVE YOU ALL/WOOD

Awwww, ((((wood))))! :k

Heavens to Betsy, wood, everyone swears, as can be seen from the above posts. My mother swears like a sailor! Do I not love her to pieces? Yes. But I still don't like to hear her speaking that way, that is all.

Do I not love Elijah Wood (in the fandom sense)? But it would be a lie to say I don't cringe reading his interviews full of expletives, or recoil when I hear him in an interview laughingly use f*** and c*** and etc. I much prefer to hear him speak the way he does in the DVD Extras and interviews, where he refrains from using obscenities.

In a way, it's far worse when I hear him saying these things because he has such a sweet face. I confess I have not effectively separated him from the role I love him in best, but that is my problem, not his. When I hear him using obscenties, I hear it the way I would hear Frodo doing it (well, not that bad; I'm exaggerating!). As if Frodo had looked up at Gandalf in Bag End's parour and said, "Me? Take the f***ing Ring to Mordor, Gandalf? You're f***ing crazy! No way!" Gandalf: "It is a heavy burden to lay upon you, Frodo, but it is your destiny." "You're f***ing serious, aren't you, Gandalf! My God, Bilbo was such a total jerk not to kill that a**hole Gollum when he had the f***ing chance. Now I'm stuck with this f***ed-up deal!"

That would lessen the effect for me considerably. :D

~ Mechtild

well mechtild, i diden`t take it that way either!!!
i know you diden`t meant that!!!! :k :k :k :k


oh ,my heavens ,if that kind of language hade shown up
in lotr i haven`t loved it the way i do!!!!

even for a big swearer like my self ,it woulde have ruined the hole movie!!!


LOVE YOU ALL/WOOD

Achila - I know intelligent people like the ones here in the Faculty would'st think all English people are like the ones in Hooligans, but there are many people who would accept the stereotyping as reality. After speaking to a lad at work who does follow his football team around, it would appear the c-word is actually used quite a bit in circles I don't mix in. It occured to me during my conversation with him, that for me the f-word in films goes in one ear and out of the other, because it is usually used as an adverb or adjective, simply adding emphasis to the message being delivered, and often not even meant in a derogatory way. We all need something to say to let of steam in the heat of the moment, 'sugar' being a popular unoffensive one.

The c-word and motherf*** on the other hand are names, specifically aimed and intended to cause insult, and for me that makes them much worse, and they do stand out when I hear them. I don't actually think I have watched many films that do show that kind of negative relationship between people. I didn't make it through Black and White - the only EW film I can't comment properly on.

LOL Mechtild. You know now that the next time I watch that scene, I'll be smiling because of your post. I'm lucky, though, because I have totally separated Mr. Wood from Frodo in my mind - for the longest time I couldn't even see Elijah when I watched Frodo. Many years of analysis and time in the fandom have blurred that a little, but I still find his portrayal of that character to feel relatively untouched by the reality of the rest of Elijah's work and the many interviews, etc. I've watched.

There are of course very intriguing situational and cultural issues behind the use of language, and expletives are no different. Just as you described, Mechtild, I was very sensitive about the language I used in front of my children when they were small. So while I was swearing like a sailor at work, I completely edited it out of my language at home. They didn't even know I was capable of it until they were in their early teens - they grew up thinking I didn't know any swear words. :D

Tolkien uses language very differently for his different characters - the difference between Frodo and Sam is marked. But even Frodo changes his language to a different style when he is conversing with Faramir, as befitted the situation of two diplomats interacting in a highly charged situation. And you just know that the Gaffer had a few choice words up his sleeve he could use when his pruning shears cut the wrong plant by mistake. ;)

Elijah does change his style depending on which show he is representing, and how formal the situation is. He has definitely picked up some of the English slangy use of expletives that have a much harsher sound to the American ear, though they are more commonly used over there - but even he only uses them in situations where it is appropriate. Serves all of us right to go snooping around reading interviews in formats we otherwise probably wouldn't have sought out. :D

There has always been 'high' and 'low' speech - the cockney slang of the 18th century was ripe with language the nobility would never be caught dead using. I guess that's why I have a tolerance for some rap music and swearing in movies, because I hear in it the rhythms of another way of life - one that I don't live, but one I can understand nonetheless. "Eight Mile" happens to be one of my favorite movies.

There has always been 'high' and 'low' speech - the cockney slang of the 18th century was ripe with language the nobility would never be caught dead using. Narya, this' a great preamble to what I was just about to say to Skater girl -- thank you. The cockney rhyming slang is exclusionary, in the sense that knowing it sets you apart. You're part of a club/culture, and you're identified as a member because of your dress, language, etc. And particularly for cockneys who were considered lower class, having something of their own, that the upper class didn't understand, was their own brand of class discrimination.

But with respect to the c-word, Skater girl, you said:
The c-word and motherf*** on the other hand are names, specifically aimed and intended to cause insult, and for me that makes them much worse, and they do stand out when I hear them. That's exactly the point. Here in the US, this word still has that connotation (and other places too, I'm sure), but used casually, the fangs are taken out of it. It is "devulgarized", in a sense. Even Elijah himself said as much when he got to NZ and heard it being used in this context. He called it "absolutely the filthiest word possible", until he understood that using it this way was a badge of belonging, and he began to do it too. And that's where Viggo got the famous "C***abago" and "Her C***liness, Cate Blanchett", etc. It is definitely all a matter of culture and context.

Which brings us back around to the origin of this discussion, which was why Hooligans may have a problem getting distribution here in the US. Even though WE, as enlightened (and LOTR enlightened) individuals, know that the "c-word" is being used this way, American censors will not look upon it quite so kindly in these ridiculously conservative times. And as with the other films I mentioned earlier, this one may end up a critic's and filmfest darling, but find a better home on cable television (the IFC, for example), rather than the local cinema.

Communications experts say that words and nonveberal signals are neutral. Context and intention are everything. Wearing white, meeting someone's eyes, and giving the classic "OK" hand signal can be highly offensive in cultures other than the U.S.

Having said that, I'll also add that any word used in excess is a bore. If I watched a film where every fourth word out of a character's mouth was "sainted" or "beige," I'd be put off for sure.

Which brings us back around to the origin of this discussion, which was why Hooligans may have a problem getting distribution here in the US. Even though WE, as enlightened (and LOTR enlightened) individuals, know that the "c-word" is being used this way, American censors will not look upon it quite so kindly in these ridiculously conservative times. And as with the other films I mentioned earlier, this one may end up a critic's and filmfest darling, but find a better home on cable television (the IFC, for example), rather than the local cinema.

All this conversation on swearing has been reminding me of another movie I saw recently, which was a critical darling, even here in "prudish" America: Trainspotting. One of the peripheral characters used the c-word so much in that one that it was laughable.

That word is a very strong one, made the more so for me I suppose, by the fact that it is so rarely uttererd in this country. The first time I encountered it was in a Joyce Carol Oates novel, when I was in my early twenties, and there was something about discovering such a filthy word, so filthy that it was out of general use, that was absolutely shocking. It always grates on my ears.

But that doesn't mean I won't watch a movie, at least once, where the dialogue is sprinkled with it. Double standards I guess. :rolleyes:

I love that passage in the appendices, where Tolkien says of the language of the Orcs:

Much the same sort of talk can still be heard amoung the orc-minded; dreary and repetitive with hatred and contempt, too long removed from good to retain even verbal vigour, save in the ears of those to whom only the squalid sounds stroung.

It's true, that the kind of language JRRT is talking about "lacks vigour." The f-word is used frequently, as you say Skater Girl
... as an adverb or adjective, simply adding emphasis to the message being delivered, and often not even meant in a derogatory way.
But a more creative word would have served better, and been more expressive. I can see that some people use the f-word to add a certain street-wise credibility to their speech, but it just sounds lazy too frequently.

--

On sort of another topic, but as it relates to Hooligans and language; in the Variety review of that film, Joe Leydon says:
Wood is burdened with some of the pic's most tin-eared, over-emphatic dialogue --- script could have used at least one more rewrite to scrape away the more obvious cliches ---

I'm guessing that's because Dougie Brimson, who wrote the screen-play is a Brit, and so doesn't really understand American usage. Sometimes when I watch Mystery! on the Public Broadcasting Station there will be an "American" character, whose use of English is glaringly wrong to my ears. It can make an whole production seem suddenly cheaply done, and slip-shod.
[ETA: I'll bet some of the words we fan-fic writers put in the hobbits' mouths would make Frodo laugh himself silly! It cuts both ways I guess!]

Funny that Elijah didn't point some of this out to Lexi thinking, as he does, that the study of English is of such importance to an actor.

Flourish, we're simulposting! Love this! :lol:
If I watched a film where every fourth word out of a character's mouth was "sainted" or "beige," I'd be put off for sure.

honey!

ETA: Criminy! Did this post come off as judgemental as it sounds on re-reading? I didn't mean it to, honest! I've been known to let fly with an "orcish" word on occassion.

Interesting discussion. The only thing I have to add is an observation relating to Achila's observation that in Elijah's characters swearing usually means something. I know the only use of an obscenity in The Faculty that I actually notice is towards the beginning when Casey's sitting on the floor of the bathroom stall nursing his bloody nose and the only word that comes out of his mouth is one "F***." The word's used who knows how many times throughout the movie, but that's the one time I feel it. Elijah seems like a fish out of water most of the time in B&W, but I can't remember anything specifically about his language in it.

Mechtild--I wrote my one-and-only fanfic about 20 years ago (hey, it's how it happened, so I only had to write it once :p ). But I have been known to come up with an occasional parody. Now you have me thinking about "The Red Book as Translated by Ed Burns." :eek: :haha: But it would have to involve more than the bleeped expletives. There'd have to be entirely illogical plot holes and... hmmm... there is a lot of walking, isn't there ;) ? I'm imagining a swearing Tom Bombadil :lol: and hobbits who drink the "hard stuff."

But language in movies does usually roll off of me, as opposed to violence--which is a segue into saying that... I've bought my ticket online... to see Sin City... tonight :eek: :eek: . I'd completely forgotten about my "AMC MovieWatcher" account that I used quite often for the LotR movies so I wouldn't have to stand in line, but it's still active. Order the ticket online, pick it up from the automated ticket machine at the theater. I figure there won't be a crowd on a Monday night. No one except the guy who tears the ticket in half will even know what movie I'm going to, so I can sit in the back and leave if I have to. Yeah, I'm a real movie wuss. I'll try to remember my mother's advice for the earliest movie-going experience I can remember. I was about 3 years old and didn't want to go to Snow White because I was afraid of the wicked queen. My mom told me that when the queen came onscreen I could duck down and hide behind the seat in front of me. :p Did I mention I'll probably sit in the back row tonight? :D

BTW, in the Sin City thread over in the cinema forum, spinner compared Kevin to a "demonic Harry Potter." :D He also used the "c" word (as in "creepy" ;) ).

Congrats, tg -- glad to hear you're taking the plunge!

As for Casey, there's one other memorable use of that expletive, which is the afformentioned, abominably dubbed, "Forget you!", also delivered with just the right amount of venom.

TG, if you remember that you're one of the few to brave TAMTSNBN, then Sin City should seem much less frightening in comparison. :D

TG, be brave! You can do it! (And, if you can stomach it, don't leave when you think it's over...'cause it ain't! ;) )

OK, I just had this goofy idea. ("oh, no! Here she goes again" the collective Faculty groans!) There is a petition website somewhere; I bumped into it the other day in my peregrinations about the web. What if one of our number started a petition there, addressed to "prospective distrubitors of Hooligans". We could notify all the usual fan-sites, as well as AICN, TORN, IMDB and others. (This just because, presumably it would carry more weight if the petition weren't only populated with female names. :rolleyes: ) We could then forward the petition to Elijah's agent, or maybe to Lexi Alexander, to be passed on to prospective distributors. What if???

Thoughts??

honey!

EDIT: Hours pass during which the only sounds are crickets chirruping, the whistle of the wind, and the creaking of rope against timber. honey! wonders how long she will have to hang here, twisting like this. Perhaps TG will come along to report on her viewing experience, and have mercy on poor, foolish honey! cutting her down. Perhaps some brave soul will come in and say "Why, honey! That's the stupidest notion I've ever heard! But we'll keep you around anyway, as you are occassionally entertaining. And you have fine taste in actors" The idea that someone might come in and say "Why honey! What a splendid idea!" seems unlikely in the extreme.

Honeyelf-
don't leave when you think it's over...'cause it ain't!
This is an important reminder for anyone going to see SC for the first time. I was slightly tempted to leave after it seemed OK to leave but .....try to sit it out! It's not over till...well...it's over. ;)

Let's hope Tg survives her viewing! :D

MORNING ALL!!!!

GREAT IDER HONEY!!!! :k :k
LETS GET STARTED!!!! ;)

OH,TG HOW DID IT GO??? :k :k

LOVE YOU ALL/WOOD

(worried) Honey, dear, are you okay?
Btw... Why honey! I thought it a splendid idea! :D


(worried) Tg, are you okay?
*Whiteling keeps her Rescue Remedy ready to hand* :k

(worried) Honey, dear, are you okay?

Awww, Whiteling! I'm guess I'm just in need of a little Elijachiatry! :eek:

Btw... Why honey! I thought it a splendid idea! :D

Do ya really think it's a workable idea? Maybe somebody brighter than I can tell us why it's not!

TG, how are you? Do we need to get out the Elijancy supply of smelling salts?

File this under Stupid Questions: Where on Earth is Benelux??? How did I live to be this old, and never know there was a place called Benelux??

honey!

Honeyelf, your idea is fine. I went Googling and Benelux is the Benelux countries: Belgium, The Netherlands, and Luxembourg.

C4

P.S. I don't swear much, but I did let loose a s@$t the other day when I upended a (mostly empty, thankfully) paint can on the hardwood floor in the family room.

Achila wrote (on the previous page), regarding use of the “f-word” by Elijah’s characters:
Then go back and listen to Casey and Jones Dillon too -- again, that particular invective is pronounced appropriately.
As far as Jones is concerned, I remember him using it to Steve (in the hospital corridor) and with Jane (in the motel room). And in both cases, he was using it as a verb, with its literal meaning, rather than just as an expletive, or as invective. That also makes a difference. Did Jones use it any other times?? (Lord only knows what kind of ads we're going to get as a result of this discussion.)

Awww, Whiteling! I'm guess I'm just in need of a little Elijachiatry! :eek:

Well, I am art therapist and therefore I'm prescribing you a picture meditation:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0903/whiteling/fotr_frodo_shire_party_72dpi_kl.jpg

Look at this picture.... you feel calm.... and relaxed.... you feel good... ;)
:k

Do ya really think it's a workable idea?

Yes, seriously, I think it is a good idea. In case we are going to send the petition to Lexi, I volunteer for writing her a covering note in German (after all, she's from Mannheim), if you want.

(Lord only knows what kind of ads we're going to get as a result of this discussion.)

Yesterday, there was an ad titled "Is your mouth your weapon?" :D :lol:

*runs in with two cents*

Honey, I think it's a great idea! Will it do any good? Well, I don't know. I tend to be a bit cynical about such things. OTOH, it couldn't hurt!

I had actually thought about contacting TORn myself, to see if they could offer advice and/or join in the battle to get distribution for this thing, but then I remembered that they're probably still trying to get distribution for their own film (aren't they? :confused: ) But it wouldn't cost them much time to put a plug in for such a petition, and if we spread the word everywhere we can think of, surely we could come up with a few hundred signatures? :z: Whether that would be enough to sway the right people is hard to say, but, again... it couldn't hurt! At the very least it will show Lexi (or Elijah, or both) that we stand behind the film and want to see it succeed.

In short (too late!), I say we should go for it! :)

Whiteling:Well, I am art therapist and therefore I'm prescribing you a picture meditation:

Ah!! Better now. :k (one for Whiteling) :k (one for the hobbit)

C4:I went Googling and Benelux is the Benelux countries: Belgium, The Netherlands, and Luxembourg. Thanks, love! I looked it up on Wikipedia. Weird little designation, like one of those neighborhoods in New York or London.

Thanks Wood, Whiteling, C4, and Bunnie! Now I have eight cents! :D

I found that web-site. It's www.petitiononline.com. There are already 3 petitions there for the benefit of Mr. Wood. One, to get him to stop smoking :rolleyes:, has only about 121 signatures. (So that's why he's still smoking - not enough signatures! :rolleyes: :rolleyes: ) Another, suggesting to NBC that he should host SNL, had over 1000 signatures. As we all know, he did host it, but it's anybody's guess if the petition helped. The third had the most signatures, 3,194 to be exact, and it was to get him nominated for an Oscar for RoTK. That one must have got lost on it's way to the Academy! :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

I don't have time to write an opening statement today. If anybody else wants to get a crack at it, feel free. I'd suggest that we mention Mssrs. Wood and Hunnam, and Lexi Alexander and the opportunity to see an action film directed by a woman. I wouldn't want the petition to have a comments field, because the girlies just use it for sniping at each other. Then we'd just need creative places to mention it. "American-Anglophiles-who-love-Brittish-Football.com" here we come! :D

honey!

EDIT: Thank you, Whiteling, for volunteering to write a cover letter to Ms. Alexander. Hold that thought! :k :k

{{{Faculty Members}}} -- Thanks for the concern. It wasn't me who needed help last night but the Midwestern weather. Last night was all severe storm warnings, and lightening and thunder--a fitting night for watching Sin City, but not for turning on the computer. I tried when I first got home and the monitor started flickering immediately so I turned it back off. We have a bit of a break today, and then it's supposed to start back up tonight.

I don't think there are any spoilers here, unless someone has been keeping away from even general descriptions of Sin City.

I did survive it basically intact. As a couple of people said earlier, IIRC, I had more "ewwww" moments than :eek: ones (if we were at CoE, I might go so far as to use the "barf" emoticon for the former), especially during the second part of The Yellow Bastard. If I can keep that stuff out of my head, I'll be doing fine. (Good work, though, to be able to make the description of a smell so vivid that it makes me gag.)

I'd read the first parts of The Yellow Bastard and Sin City before I saw the movie (as far as the Amazon "Look inside the book" feature let me go :rolleyes: ), and it was a great job of re-creating the pages in live action. And perfect casting--I think I pictured Bruce Willis as Hartigan before I even heard he was going to be in the movie. I especially liked the idea used during the opening credits of putting the actor's name with a picture of the book character.

[Just got interrupted by the announcement of the new pope--now back to more important things ;) . I wouldn't be saying that if anyone other than my "anyone but..." guy had gotten elected. :rolleyes: ]

So, anyway...Have to say that Kevin didn't scare me, or even seem creepy--he just looked too much like Elijah. Maybe if he'd been in the story more so I'd had more of a chance to think of him as the character, it would have been "better." Having said that, I wouldn't want to fight Kevin--that part of the character (the nails, the silence, the speed, the kicks) got across to me just fine!

I don't know that I'd want to see the movie in the theater again, but I definitely want the DVD, so I can watch some parts while skipping others (based largely on the "ewww" factor), and Kevin's scenes are some I want to re-watch. His fighting went by too fast to really follow it the first time through and, who knows, maybe the character will get creepier to me if he has more of a chance to sink in. His fighting is a natural for "frame-by-frame research" :p , so the DVD will be an essential piece of laboratory equipment.

Comic book material, as expected, as far as plot, etc., but for the same reason some of it was really visually stunning, IMHO. I won't go into specifics now on either plot or visuals, since that would get into spoilers.

On stormy Monday nights, my guess is that most people at the theater are there because they want to see a specific movie, not because they're "looking for something to do," and I think that was true at Sin City last night. There were about a dozen people there, two other females but neither of them were alone. The majority stayed through the credits (I thought the music was great, BTW), and there was some quiet discussion going on as people left. Nary a fanboy reaction to be found.

TG,GLADE YOU ARE OKEY,AND THAT YOU SURVIVED "SIN CITY!!!!!!
:k :cool: ;)

WHITELING,THAT PICTURE CAN CURE ALMOST ANYTHING!! :k :k
THOSE EYES ,MOUTH,NOSE,CHEEKBONES!! :p
SORRY, WRONG PLACE again!!!!! :D :cool: :k


LOVE YOU ALL/WOOD

tg: Glad to see that you returned safely from Sin City. I agree that the second half of “That Yellow Bastard” was perhaps the most “ewww”-worthy part of the film (especially TYB’s demise, which made me wince far more than any of the decapitations and dismemberments did). Since you brought up the pope (not in connection with the movie, obviously!), let me ask the Faculty: Did anyone else notice the frequent use of crosses during the movie? On Kevin’s Bible; in Becky’s jewelry; even the scar on Hartigan’s forehead is sort of cross-shaped. And Marv wears a cross (at least on the cover of the movie-tie-in book; can’t remember whether he wore it in the film). Not sure what this means. . . .

tg commented, about the audience:
Nary a fanboy reaction to be found.
Same thing when I saw it, I think (Achila and ceefour, correct me if I’m wrong). Maybe Frank Miller attracts a more thoughtful kind of fanboy? Or Robert Rodriguez does?

And I also agree with tg that “the music was great.”

whiteling: Your “prescription” is terrific! Who needs pills??

from the Malibu Film Festival this past weekend:


Best of Festival – Feature
Audience Award
Hooligans
Dir. Lexi Alexander


Best of Festival – Feature
Jury Award
Hooligans
Dir. Lexi Alexander

Also, here's an article about the film from the NY Times (Sports Section):
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/19/sports/soccer/19soccer.html?

AND: New Hooligans trailer: Please right-click/save:

http://www.mothtoaflame.com/apr05/hoolprev.asx

Achila, that second trailer link is still a streaming version (you have to be connected to the internet for it to work). But you are all welcome to use this link:

http://www.mothtoaflame.com/apr05/hoolynew.mpeg
Please right-click-save. It's around 16 MB. :)

Wow! Thanks for more great news, Achila! Suddenly my goofy petition notion is starting to feel very redundant, and unecessary. What film distributor worth his salt can ignore the kind of buzz this film is getting from audiences?

That trailer; it's kind of odd isn't it? It's sort of a throw-back to an older style. I can't remember the last time I saw a trailer with the main character as narrator.

The first trailer was all noise, and rapid action; a style of trailer much more similar to the trailers I've seen in theaters lately. Sometimes the folks who correograph trailers seem to use rapid cuts to disguise the fact that the movie really has nothing to say.

I had an interesting evening, going to Herbst Theater in San Francisco to see Jonathan Safran Foer interviewed! I'll probably put a long post about what he said in the "Everything Will Be Illuminated Herein" thread tomorrow, or the next day. Surely the most meaningless revelation of the evening was being rather near Mr. Foer, and realizing how similar in build and size he is to Elijah; another slight, small man. But like I said, that's the least of the things I learned tonight.
honey!

Achila, thanks for the good news about the success of Hooligans at Malibu, and for the NYT link. Surely, the fact that the film won the audience awards (as well as the jury prizes) both here and at SWSX should tell potential distributors something.

Note that the NYT article contributes yet another animal metaphor to the growing list:
It stars Elijah Wood (who played Frodo in "The Lord of the Rings" movies) as a doe-eyed American
That’s more accurate than “vole-like preciousness,” anyway! (I always thought that doe-eyed people had to have brown eyes; but I looked it up, and it just means "having wide-open, innocent-appearing eyes.")

Achila, that second trailer link is still a streaming version (you have to be connected to the internet for it to work). But you are all welcome to use this link:

http://www.mothtoaflame.com/apr05/hoolynew.mpeg
Please right-click-save. It's around 16 MB. :)

Thanks, babe -- I copied it from the wrong entry. :o

I thought the odd thing about the trailer was that it just ended abruptly. Again, no credits, no titles. It still isn't quite an "official" trailer.

ETA: And OT, here's a site you might be interested in. Weta now has their own website: http://www.wetaworkshop.co.nz/

I thought the odd thing about the trailer was that it just ended abruptly. Again, no credits, no titles. It still isn't quite an "official" trailer.I think it's much like the trailer I saw for Dom's film,
Shooting Livien, which was actually a snippet of the film rather than an actual trailer. It's possible that this was lifted directly from the film, judging by the way it "ends."

(I always thought that doe-eyed people had to have brown eyes; but I looked it up, and it just means "having wide-open, innocent-appearing eyes.")
Sean A. used the "doe-eyed" description for Elijah before FotR was released. IIRC, an interviewer asked Sean if he was concerned about how the movies might affect his career (since at that point, they were still a toss-up between hits and flops). He said not really, because [perhaps not an exact quote], "After all, it's Elijah's doe eyes everyone sees on the sides of buses." Referring to:

http://www.frodolivesin.us/0f882c80.jpg

I do remember that the statement had a feeling of fondness for Elijah to it, rather than any negative connotations. Of course, there wasn't any stereotyping involved then, since those doe eyes hadn't become famous yet :) ; I doubt very much if most people who saw that poster even knew who the actor in the picture was. The main point of Sean's statement was acknowledging that it was really Elijah, not him, who'd be carrying the movies and who'd have the most to lose if they weren't accepted. An unself-centered statement, since we now know Sean was actually quite worried about whether the movies would "make it" or not financially.

--FWIW, the eyes on that poster don't show wide-eyed innocence, IMHO. I'm thinking "doe eyed" is one of those sayings that different people use in somewhat different ways.

-------------

Another sign of EII being truly "on the horizon"--amazon.com now has the theatrical release of it listed. It's even showing up occasionally in the rotating "Elijah Wood movies" ads that I use in some page borders on my website. They've been experimenting with that ad format lately, and showing theatrical releases in them is something new.

------------

Thanks all for the continuing Hooligans news. All we need is for one movie distributor to be smart enough to pick it up. Just one... :z:

http://www.frodolivesin.us/0f882c80.jpg

I doubt very much if most people who saw that poster even knew who the actor in the picture was.


Strange as it seems to me now, at one time I was one of those people! That poster was hanging in my local movie theater for a couple of months during the winter of 2000, before my heartstrings were zinged by the online LOTR trailer. I looked at it with mild interest (this was before my love of LOTR was re-awakened by re-reading the book for the first time in, oh, 23 years or so). Now I OWN that poster and around 10 others from the films. :)

OMG: That Hooligans Trailer was awesome! Thanks to all who made it possible for me to be transported from my overladen desk for a few minutes!

And did you notice that the music in this trailer was Stone Roses--yes the band that Elwood once reported made him think of Frodo Baggins, cause he listened to it during the LoTR filming. I adore it!

tg--welcome back from your dangerous foray to Sin City!

Is there anyone who would like a DVD copy of Lij's "Homicide" episode? I have one extra -- PM me if interested.

tgshaw wrote:
the eyes on that poster don't show wide-eyed innocence, IMHO. I'm thinking "doe eyed" is one of those sayings that different people use in somewhat different ways.
Sometimes I get the impression that the term is used simply to describe anyone with large eyes. Whenever I hear it, I immediately think of Audrey Hepburn. And I agree that Frodo's eyes in that particular poster are anything but innocent. I love that picture (couldn't get the poster, but have a magnet, at least). But its brooding, stormy quality seems almost more appropriate to RotK than to FotR.

BTW, the LOTR Symphony is returning to Philadelphia this July (still no Howard Shore, however :( ). Achila, ceefour, and I are all going to it. The three of us went last year, too; but we didn’t know each other then, so we'll have more fun this time (and maybe the acoustics will have improved :z: ).

Just clicked on an ad (on this page) for the first round of Sin City action figures: Marv, Nancy, Hartigan, Manute, Gail, and Yellow Bastard. The first to be announced from the upcoming round two is Shelly. In kind of a nice touch, they're available in either color or black & white (except for the Yellow Bastard, who comes either serious or smiling), and there are multiple versions of Marv and Nancy. No Kevin yet, but from some of the "accessories" that come with Marv, I'm guessing he'll eventually be given someone to use them on... a Kevin that can be dis-assembled, perhaps? ;)

--------------

ETA: Pelagia, IIRC, the reasoning behind starting out with a dark, brooding poster for FotR (that was the very first one released) was to make it clear from the start that this wasn't going to be a sweet little movie to take the kiddies to on a Saturday afternoon. Some people make assumptions when they hear the word "fantasy." Some made those assumptions even with the publicity; I talked with one woman when FotR was already in the second-run theater who'd brought her three little girls because she "thought it would be more like Harry Potter."

A lot of Tolkien readers, myself included, welcomed the poster as a sign that the story was going to be taken seriously. The second poster, which I actually like better, is the one where Frodo's looking down at the Ring in his hand. They lightened up a little for that one, both in the picture and the caption, but still kept it serious. I think the posters were actually considered more as lead-ins for the entire trilogy than for FotR alone. (I also took it as a hopeful sign that the first two posters released were both of Frodo.)

Glad to hear you survived Sin City, tg, and yes, it's already been announced that Kevin is one of the figures from the second set. :cool:

tgshaw wrote:
IIRC, the reasoning behind starting out with a dark, brooding poster for FotR (that was the very first one released) was to make it clear from the start that this wasn't going to be a sweet little movie to take the kiddies to on a Saturday afternoon.
Thanks for that information. (I was oblivious to LotR until after TTT came out, and so wasn't aware of any of the publicity for FotR.) The poster that I first remember seeing is this one:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v653/Lalage/FOTRposter.jpg
It seems to be a compromise: Frodo still looks solemn, but without the dark-and-broody quality of the posters where he's holding the Ring. Maybe he could be described as doe-eyed in this one. At any rate, there's a greater innocence -- or maybe it's a greater vulnerability -- to this Frodo than to the one you posted (which I actually like the best of them all).

I love the idea of a Kevin action figure who can be "disassembled!"

You know, the first poster I remember didn't have Frodo at all, but the huge picture of the Argonath with the tiny little boats beneath them. I loved that poster because I knew then that was someone who understand the "look" of Middle Earth.

I do remember the first time I knew Elijah Wood was connected with the project--it was during that teaser trailer shot of them coming through the pass. Gandalf was immediately recognizeable, as was the elf and the dwarf. And then these four young guys came through. I was familiar with Sean Astin, but totally missed him, but Wood stood out for me. I knew he had to be playing Frodo, and I thought that the studios had just cast young, short actors in the role. I was confused as to why he was cast so young, but respected him enough as an actor not to be too worried at that point. BTW, I totally got Boromir and Aragorn mixed up, thinking the last fellow looked more dubious of character, and figured he would be Boromir. I forgot about Aragorn looking a bit foul.

I do remember the first time I got total goosebumps in the promotional material: Gandalf's "You shall not pass!" That was always the most moving part of the books to me, and I loved that it was included in the trailers.

BTW, I'm about to explode to see "Hooligans." I logged my address into the website in the vain hope if enough US interest is shown on site that they'll give the movies a US release. I hope so. I hope so.

According to Ted Casablanca Lij was recently spotted in New Zealand. I guess he really is down there getting stomped by Kong! :cool: Mr. Casablanca doesn't seem to think much of Lijah's "dark ass brown" dye job. He just hasn't seen it first person yet! :D

honey!

Ereshkigal wrote (about the teaser trailer for FotR that showed the Fellowship coming through the pass):
BTW, I totally got Boromir and Aragorn mixed up, thinking the last fellow looked more dubious of character, and figured he would be Boromir. I forgot about Aragorn looking a bit foul.
:) Well, Boromir’s wardrobe generally seems cleaner. But both guys can look pretty shifty, and could use a shampoo.

honeyelf, Achila says that Elijah is back from New Zealand. Wouldn’t it be nice if he came to TriBeCa for Hooligans? Although if he does so, it will probably be for the opener this Sunday, rather than for the Thursday show that we’re going to. :(

Yep -- there was a sighting at Disneyland last week, and he was at the WWS show on April 20, so the One Lad is home.

As for Ted C, here's the whole thing:

Elijah and pancakes: Elijah Wood, totally milking his Lord of the Rings megastardom, in Wellington, New Zealand, natch. Eli-hon wolfed down fake pancakes at Crepes a Go Go with a taller blond gent. Locals still see Wood and his fellow Hobbit pals as quasi-Kiwis, which is a good thing, my scoffing crumbcakes. It seems as though E.W. has dyed his hair very black, which snitty spies are frowning upon. Pal, it didn't work for Renée Zellweger, and she's a bigger star than you. Hairy, too, was.
She's a bigger star than you? As if.

Hooligans has won Best Feature Film jury AND audience at the Malibu Film Festival!


http://www.malibufilmfestival.com/

ETA1:Oh, and I loved the trailer, for Tribeca I presume, since it still isn't a 'proper' trailer. Loved badass!Elijah roaming the streets of SW1. And I do believe we got yet ANOTHER variation on the fall when the other lad hits poor Elijah in the chops. A shame it is separated by a cut because I’m sure EW could’ve been punched and fall beautifully in one take.

ETA2: Doh! Achila has already posted the info about Malibu.

I do read the thread, I promise!
;)

Where do you all find this information about EW? Do you have a spy satellite aimed at him? Elijahsat, instead of Landsat?

C4

Where do you all find this information about EW? Do you have a spy satellite aimed at him? Elijahsat, instead of Landsat?
C4, did you miss the discussion where Elijah was fitted with a radio transmission collar? He was brought down with a tranquillizer dart (or possibly beer) during the New Orleans party (that cover story about the cut over his eyes being caused by a thrown necklace was rubbish). Anyway, scientists are now plotting his movements via radar. He migrates freely around the globe, as far south as New Zealand and as far north as... North. :D Only the emperor penguin has been determined to travel this many miles in a year. Yes, a penguin. Interesting, isn't it? *serious frowny smile* ;)

Hi, Random! Good to see you!

I enjoyed the H trailer also. Perhaps it's one of those web-download trailers. I thought it did a great notion of conveying what the story would be about. I'm now thinking I do want to see this!

Ted C is always snarky. We know that Elijah puts uncharted energy into altering his appearance and acting like a Big Star. :rolleyes: Really, it's uncharted. Didn't show up on any of the monitors. :p

FOTR posters? I saw no posters. I walked into the movie totally unitiated, because a friend insisted I go. I was completely blown away and in love after one viewing. We all went to a restaurant and talked for hours! I loved Frodo, but it's safer to say I was in love with the movie. They did such a wonderful job of capturing Middle Earth for me, I was (and still am) completely blown away.

Mariole, you wrote,

I loved Frodo, but it's safer to say I was in love with the movie.
Me, too. It was the movie. I didn't develop my tendre for zee leetle hobbit zo pret-ty until later.

~Mechtild

I loved Frodo, but it's safer to say I was in love with the movie.

I was in love with the movie the first time around. But I didn't love Frodo, in fact I couldn't stand him; he was nothing like my beloved Bilbo! It wasn't until the second time seeing the film that I began to appreciate Frodo for having his own fine qualities, and then it was love!

Yep -- there was a sighting at Disneyland last week...

I'm amazed, and very pleased, that EJW can still get out and about like this! My sister saw John Travolta at Disneyland once. It was between his two moments of fame, when he was kind of considered a has been. Nevertheless he was so surrounded by folks gawking as his wife changed their kid's diaper (yuck!), that he could barely move!

honey!

AFTERNOON,EVERYONE!!!!! :k :k

C4,I WONDER THAT TOO!!
WERE ON EARTH DO YOU LADIES FIND ALL THE NEWS?????

BUT I AM VERY HAPPY YOU DO!!!!! :k :k

HONEY,I AM ALSO VERY HAPPY THAT ELIJAH STILL CAN HAVE HIS PRIVATE
LIFE INTACT!!!!

but some times i wish i coulde find more in the papers over here!!!! :(

SAFER TOO SAY I`M IN LOVE WITH THE MOVIES??!!

i wish i coulde say the same thing!!! :(
but after ten times my secret was out !!!
maybe i coulden`t hide my own smile every time EW was on screen!! :D :p

THANK YOU FOR THE LINK FOR THE SNIPPET FROM HOLLIGANS,NOW THE WAIT IS EVEN HARDER!!!! :k :p :D

LOVE YOU ALL/WOOD

I was so Frodocentric before the movies were even a gleam in PJ's eye, that I really didn't have a choice but to approach the movies from that direction. Hey, I'd been with this guy for over 30 years, so I was pretty emotionally invested in seeing that the movies got him right! In fact, that's all I was really worried about; if Frodo was right, the movies would be fine (for me), and if Frodo wasn't right, they'd be a failure (for me). It was a rather strange feeling when I heard that Elijah had been cast in the role--it was as if a shutter instantly closed on my worries. Not that I didn't/haven't/don't have quibbles and complaints about the movies, but that's much different from the hardcore worry I had before Elijah was cast.

--I'll admit to a couple of moments of doubt. One was the first time I saw Elijah interviewed in costume. Even though I'd admired his acting, I was still completely ignorant of the difference between Elijah Wood in costume and Elijah Wood in character.

I'd been educated in that area before the movie came out, but, lemmee tell ya, the first time I saw "the money shot" I wanted to bury my face in my hands. OME! That's not Frodo! :eek: What have we done? The whole Party scene was kind of hit or miss--some if it I liked, some I didn't. But the moment that completely won me over was, "He's gone, hasn't he?" Not just the way he delivered the line, but the line itself was so perfect and so British (an American would say, "He's gone, isn't he?" using "gone" as an adjective rather than a verb). And, for me, Elijah's delivery of that one line of dialogue contained everything I'd ever felt of Frodo's relationships with both Bilbo and Gandalf. I'd already written my reviews of Bumblebee and Deep Impact by that time, so was aware of what Elijah was capable of saying in a very "ordinary" line, but I wasn't expecting that one.

just found this little thing!!!

you just have to love him (and sean) not many celeberties
woulde do this!!thats why he is something extra!!!!! :k :k :k

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v399/erendil/hospital_1.jpg


LOVE YOU ALL/WOOD

Wood! Those are so wonderful! Thanks for sharing them :k . [If you have time to post them in the Goonies' thread, I bet they'd love to see them, too. They seem to be having a flower show there at the moment. :) .]

----A lot of celebrities would "make an appearance," but to spend the day there is something special (but, y'know, I bet "Frodo and Sam" had more fun there than they would have doing most anything else).

i posted a very big picture in hugs haeven can`t make it smaler

and this i can`t make any bigger!!

what am i doing wrong???? :(

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v399/erendil/hooligans.jpg

LOVE YOU ALL/WOOD

wood, I second tg in thanking you for posting that. (Note the characteristically over-long shirt sleeves.)

tg wrote:
I'd been educated in that area before the movie came out, but, lemmee tell ya, the first time I saw "the money shot" I wanted to bury my face in my hands. OME! That's not Frodo! What have we done?
And I have to say, my reaction on seeing that was, "Well, he's just as creepy as I remembered him being on Homicide." So I just tried not to look at him too much, for the rest of my first viewing of FotR. :o

And I have to say, my reaction on seeing that was, "Well, he's just as creepy as I remembered him being on Homicide." So I just tried not to look at him too much, for the rest of my first viewing of FotR. :o

Pelagia, that statement has been rolling around in my head all day. It echoes things people have said about EJW as Kevin; that they'd always found him "creepy" and in Kevin he plays creepy. I can't ask them, but I can ask you! :D What exactly is that "creepy" quality that everyone speaks about, and that you saw initially?

honey!

Mariole:
C4, did you miss the discussion where Elijah was fitted with a radio transmission collar? He was brought down with a tranquillizer dart (or possibly beer) during the New Orleans party (that cover story about the cut over his eyes being caused by a thrown necklace was rubbish). Anyway, scientists are now plotting his movements via radar. He migrates freely around the globe, as far south as New Zealand and as far north as... North. Only the emperor penguin has been determined to travel this many miles in a year. Yes, a penguin. Interesting, isn't it? *serious frowny smile*

:lol:

I wanna see!! Mariole, can have the radar screen next?? Whose turn?

And Creepy Frodo??? Never for me. My brain wrapped around him pretty much from the beginning. Magical Frodo :)

Seeing the "Hooligans" trailer made me think of "The Chocolate War" (for Adults. Like Dom, who is in the tv show, "Lost" is like "Lord of the Flies" for Adults. :eek: ) for some reason. :confused:

I guess it had to do with lighting of the bar scenes, the windows looking like the Boarding School for Boys, and Elijah's character, (Renoult, innocent of "The Chocolate War.") get sucked in, and loses Innocence. :eek: (However, he still maintains some Masculinity :D )

Anyway, the whole Idea of these two things made me laugh. :p

And I have to say, my reaction on seeing that was, "Well, he's just as creepy as I remembered him being on Homicide." So I just tried not to look at him too much, for the rest of my first viewing of FotR. :o

I was thinking and trying to remember which feelings the "money shot" did evoke in me (I was Tolkien virgin at that point, knowing next to nothing of hobbits et al.)... and I recall that this very first direct look of Frodo reminded me vaguely of a kind of nature spirit or an elemental being. An archetypical being, not quite real, and rather green. Something of this face fascinated me immediately, as well as it disturbed me to some extent.
There really exists an archetypical figure in the former Celtic areas of Europe, which is the Green man. It's a pagan image for our oneness with the Earth, nevertheless it can be found in many churches in Britain and Germany (here's (http://www.vosper4coins.co.uk/Stone/GreenMan_files/GreenMan.htm) an interesting link to pictures of the Green man, and some more info).
Tg, is it possible that your first reaction to Money Shot!Frodo was due to the allusions to the qualities of a Tom Bombadil?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0903/whiteling/MoneyShot.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0903/whiteling/GreenManBamberg.jpg

This is the Green man of Bamberg cathedral.


Wood, thanks a lot for posting those Children's Hospital pictures! :)

Originally posted by Whiteling:
I was thinking and trying to remember which feelings the "money shot" did evoke in me

The Money Shot was really my very first introduction to Elijah & Frodo, and for that reason is very special to me ;) I had seen a couple of trailers for FOTR but for some very strange reason Elijah didn't leap out at me (prior to this I'd never seen him or heard his name) :eek: I vaguely remember seeing the pic of Frodo with Sting somewhere but again this didn't have any sort of impact on me. And when I started reading FOTR for the first time just before seeing the film I never associated that pic with Frodo - in fact, I had no face for Frodo in my mind. But when I saw TMS it was "Oh My God, who, in the name of everything sacred, was that??? The effect this 'being' had on me increased as the film progressed & by the time we reached 'Sam, I'm glad you're with me' my life had changed - for ever :) But CREEPY :confused: Never!! Beautiful, joyful, innocent, fascinating, hypnotic, magical - and yes Whiteling, 'nature spirit' definitely - but creepy? I think not :eek:

Mariole - so that's why we always know where he is :D *Joins Alyon in rolling round on the floor*

Ah! The MoneyShot! Changed my life forever.

I fell so in love with it because it brought me into Tolkiens world. Frodo is reading under the tree. Reading. Nature and books. It is a moment that for me transcends the borders between our world and Middle Earth. In my mind, it is a man under a tree reading Lord of the Rings and simultaneously he is transported to that world. Something like that. I identified with that moment. I think it was a great way to make me see the events of the story through Frodo's eyes.

Tg, is it possible that your first reaction to Money Shot!Frodo was due to the allusions to the qualities of a Tom Bombadil?
No, it was all about Frodo; there was nothing subconscious going on, believe me! It probably helps to keep in mind that for about three years I'd been immersed in everything that could be known, deduced, deducted, constructed, suggested, or surmised about these movies. The entire Tolkien community had started out tremendously concerned about them, becoming more accepting--and some even anticipating--of them as time went on and more was actually known, which I took as a good sign.

But I knew there were things I wasn't going to be happy with. If I hadn't known about AATF ahead of time and so been prepared for it, I quite likely would have walked out of the theater at that point (and sat in my car and cried for an hour before driving home through the early-morning sleet and getting out the book to find my Frodo again). More to the point [ :rolleyes: ], we knew that Frodo was being "aged down" considerably, made more dependent and naive than in the book, and losing some of his self-confidence and a lot of his best moments in the process.

It might also help to keep in mind that I'd been defending Elijah's casting as Frodo tooth and nail (well, mouse and keyboard ;) ) since the day he'd been cast, which had been a couple of years by that point. A big part of my defense had been that Elijah could give us a young Frodo who still had the internal qualities that Frodo needed to, well, be Frodo. In a way, it did feel somewhat like a "we": "...c'mon Elijah, we'll show 'em." The opening shot was heartwarming, "The Shire, 60 years later" with Frodo reading a book beneath a tree. Very good... He looks up--not too bad, not too "pretty" in that shot. So far, so good... Then... GAAAH!! That rosy-cheeked, bug-eyed, 100% innocent, naive, fresh-faced kid--in close-up, yet. The first close-up :eek: ! Ohhhhh, nooooo!!! (And that first smile didn't help!) I didn't completely lose faith in Elijah at that point, but I sure as #$*#@ wasn't too sure what PJ was up to!

And before someone points out that Frodo would be young at that point, even in the book, yeah, I know... but it was an extreme start. How was this silly child going to become, in less than a day, the Frodo who drained his glass in honor of Bilbo and slipped quietly from the pavillion? Well, he didn't, exactly. But he did become much, much more than I was afraid he was going to be during that first close-up!

I still find myself being surprised when I read positive first reactions to "the money shot," because the immediate ones were almost universally negative--the immediate ones all being from long-time Tolkien readers since we were the only ones with much invested at that point. Some of those same people love the shot now; I'd still prefer to see something else at that moment. But now that I've seen the rest of the 12 hours, it doesn't have the overwhelming effect it did the first time I saw it.

'Nuff said? :p :rolleyes:

honeyelf wrote:
What exactly is that "creepy" quality that everyone speaks about, and that you saw initially?
I can speak only for myself, of course; and it’s hard to remember. As McPhee, it was his character that was creepy; but I also thought he was rather odd looking. Then when I saw The Money Shot, it was those eyes: the way he widened them, so that they looked as if they were about to pop out of his head. (Yes, I was part of the “bugeyed” brigade.) But beyond that superficial reaction, I also felt what whiteling talked about: that he looked “not quite real,” and that his face “disturbed me to some extent” – although in my case, these reactions were negatives rather than positives. And they stayed with me through over a year of watching and re-watching the films. For me, I think it was in part the extreme changeability of his appearance (he can look so different, from different angles), and that combination of “prettiness” with the very strong features. It really wasn’t until I saw him on some talk shows that my attitude changed, perhaps because here at last WAS a real person.

I can’t explain this very well. But I think a lot of people's sense of "creepiness" may be due to the eyes, and that rather stare-y quality they can take on, sometimes (as in TMS). And of course, as Kevin, the eyes seem to have been magnified somewhat by the glasses. (Wait until they see Jonathan!)

BTW, on the topic of Frodo looking “not quite real,” Achila has remarked to me that in the scene in RotK at the top of the stairs of Cirith Ungol, where Gollum tells Frodo that Sam wants the Ring, Gollum looks more real than Elijah!

whiteling, your Green Man simile is brilliant, IMHO. Now, if you could use your artistic talents to produce a hybrid of the two. . . .

You know, the Money Shot didn't really affect me one way or another. As I said earlier, I recognized Wood from an earlier promo, and thought he was a bit young, but was willing to withhold judgment. When I first saw FOTR, I was so blown away by the prologue alone that I decided I was going to love this movie, but I had mixed feelings about Wood at first. I thought he was cute (especially when Gandalf praises hobbits and Wood just beams) and fairly capable in the role. There were some things I didn't like (Weathertop, for instance) and some early swoony moments (when he says "Get off the road" I think it is both a good acting moment and that he looks quite swoonerlicious) but he totally impressed me in that little quiet talk he has with Bilbo in Rivendell, when he says, "I'm not like you, Bilbo."

I had issues with the way Frodo was written after that, especially with some decisions Boyens/Walsh/Jackson made concerning his character, but I was sold on Wood's portrayal from that moment on, even if I sometimes wonder what would have happened on the writing table if Jackson had cast Frodo older.


BTW, concering the Hooligans trailer, I have to admit I giggled a bit at the tatoo scene--he is so skinny! Tee hee. But I love his drawn face in the end of the trailer--he looks like he knows for sure he's not made of glass.

Oh, I wish this movie would get U.S. distribution. Or I could get to Tribeca. Sigh.

Ereshkigal, I like your mature reaction to TMS. I was with the "Wait, Frodo is a kid!" crowd. I warmed to him in the rush-from-Bag End scene; his fear and courage really got me in his corner, despite him being too young. But TMS itself always sort of startled me. Like Tg, I think I would have preferred to see something else as our Frodo introduction. Eandme, thank you for sharing your lovely story about such a positive reaction. :)

(Wait until they see Jonathan!)
Oh, Lord, I hadn't thought of that! *laughing* Yes, the Bug-Eyed Brigade will be back in force. Oh, me. *wipes tear*

But I love his drawn face in the end of the trailer--he looks like he knows for sure he's not made of glass.
Ooh, well put! Yes. That look really drew me in. I want to see this! :)

Whiteling, your Green Man description was perfect. That piece of art is stunning! Wow. Eerie, wonderful. Love it.

Good morning, everyone!

Remembering our discussion of North, I found someone -- the inimitable undone -- who does have screencaps, if anyone's interested:

http://undone.sean-astin.net/thumbnails.php?album=8

:cool:

And a Zissen Pesach to those who celebrate! :k

Pelagia, thank you for answering my question. :k :k

My first reaction to the money shot was that he didn't look real. Maybe there was some CGI involved, I wondered.

But mostly, on first viewing, he seemed broodier and angstier than Bilbo, and just didn't seem to "be like" that resourceful, plucky little hobbit.

Then, on first viewing, I absolutley hated the scene where he almost takes off his shirt. I thought the director was playing with the audience, because by then I'd figured out that Frodo was being played by a young man that "some people" were going to consider really "hot."

By the end of the movie I was warming to this (unfamiliar) story, and if I could have seen the next installment then and there I'd have sat for another three hours. Though hadn't warmed to that little actor playing Frodo just yet. The suspicion of the overly-pretty I suppose, i.e. if he's pretty he can't be any good.

Wood really didn't get my attention until my second viewing when I felt real fear and determination from him when he finally turns on Gandalf and says "what must I do?" I think at that moment I realized how much "pluck" this particular hobbit had, though maybe of darker stuff. I simultaneously realized that Wood had an "interesting face"; it wasn't just "pretty", it was down-right beautiful. From that moment on he had my full attention, and I've talked before about my goose-bump scene, when I felt I knew exactly what he was thinking.

honey!

...I had issues with the way Frodo was written after that, especially with some decisions Boyens/Walsh/Jackson made concerning his character, but I was sold on Wood's portrayal from that moment on, even if I sometimes wonder what would have happened on the writing table if Jackson had cast Frodo older.
I wouldn't have wanted Frodo cast older (okay, in large part because I wouldn't have wanted anyone but Elijah to play him :) ). Elijah was physically the right age for Frodo. Even if the 17 years would have been included, Frodo would have looked like a hobbit "just come of age," so upper teens to early twenties would have been just right for the "Big Person" equivalent. What was most frustrating was that, from seeing his other work, I knew Elijah could have given us a dead-on portrayal of someone mature on the inside while looking young on the outside (he said in one interview that it was the first time he'd played a 50-year-old, and I wish that had been actually true--I would have loved to have seen it, and I know he could have done it).

I think movie-Frodo was young both inside and outside simply because he was written that way; IMVHO, that must have been a very basic decision for the movies, made before casting was done. It's Frodo's equivalent of reluctant-king Aragorn, IMVHO. Aragorn has to become willing to become king, and Frodo has to grow up. Frodo takes the entire FotR movie to get to the point where he's able to decide to go on alone. That's not an issue in the book, any more than Aragorn's willingness to be king, but both of those are made into major themes in the movies. To the credit of the writers, they very consistently carried those threads through the story and did so quite well, which is the main reason I think they were both decisions made early in the writing process. [Those two aren't the only character arcs created specifically for the movies, of course, but the Aragorn/Frodo arcs seem to run somewhat parallel to each other.]

I try not to dwell too much on the "what could have beens" of the movies, and everything has its positives and negatives. Some people have said they felt more sympathetic toward movie-Frodo because he was so young, naive, and innocent, so it wasn't a totally bad decision, especially if some of those people went on to read the book.

I think movie-Frodo was young both inside and outside simply because he was written that way; IMVHO, that must have been a very basic decision for the movies, made before casting was done. It's Frodo's equivalent of reluctant-king Aragorn, IMVHO. Aragorn has to become willing to become king, and Frodo has to grow up. Frodo takes the entire FotR movie to get to the point where he's able to decide to go on alone. That's not an issue in the book, any more than Aragorn's willingness to be king, but both of those are made into major themes in the movies. I agree, TG. Most specifically, because the 17 years at Bag End had been stripped away, it would have made very little sense for Frodo to be so wordly and wise. We don't really know how long Gandalf is gone in the film -- could be 9 months, 9 weeks, 9 years, etc., but it's surely not as long as the time that elapses in the book. So let's say, for argument's sake, that it's a handful of months (1-2, 2-3?) to go to Minas Tirith and back. Bilbo has just left Frodo on his own for the first time, not to mention the fact that he's never even been out of the Shire in his life. The abbreviated time scale is surely not long enough for him to become as self-assured as he is in the book.

Now, PJ and co. could've done something along the lines of Bakshi, with a subtitle that read, "Seventeen years later...." or something like that. But then, they would've had to explain where the heck Gandalf was all that time, and it does take some of the immediacy out of the situation, etc. To my mind, for filmic purposes, the time scale had to be shrunk, and subsequently, Frodo with it.

Hey -- we're talking about Frodo again...will wonders never cease? :D

ETA: Nice cap from North -- note the "money shot" eyes in this one!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v236/aquila0212/North-177.jpg


(Oh, this shot makes me ache for Elijah's true hair color...)

I think movie-Frodo was young both inside and outside simply because he was written that way; IMVHO, that must have been a very basic decision for the movies, made before casting was done. It's Frodo's equivalent of reluctant-king Aragorn, IMVHO. Aragorn has to become willing to become king, and Frodo has to grow up. Frodo takes the entire FotR movie to get to the point where he's able to decide to go on alone. That's not an issue in the book, any more than Aragorn's willingness to be king, but both of those are made into major themes in the movies. To the credit of the writers, they very consistently carried those threads through the story and did so quite well, which is the main reason I think they were both decisions made early in the writing process. [Those two aren't the only character arcs created specifically for the movies, of course, but the Aragorn/Frodo arcs seem to run somewhat parallel to each other.]

I try not to dwell too much on the "what could have beens" of the movies, and everything has its positives and negatives. Some people have said they felt more sympathetic toward movie-Frodo because he was so young, naive, and innocent, so it wasn't a totally bad decision, especially if some of those people went on to read the book.

I agree with everything you said, here, TGshaw (yes, great minds do think alike). I thought for a long time that Jackson had cast Frodo so young because he had originally cast Aragorn so young, but I read somewhere else that Jackson only interviewed very young actors for the part, and always had a young man in mind for Frodo. Your assessment of Frodo and Aragorn's character arcs in the movies is dead on, I think, concerning both characters. One particular scene from the book illustrates that--when Aragorn and Frodo approach Minas Tirith side by side just before Aragorn assumes the crown. There is a maturity and ease of station in life that is implicit in both characters here in the book that was never really present in the film for either one.

But as you said, it really isn't helpful to dwell too much on book and film changes. I try to like each on its individual merits, and I like film Frodo largely because Elijah Wood played him. Probably explains my presence here. ;) But I will always prefer the book to the films, as is true with most film adaptations (The Godfather being the notable exception). As much as I love movies, I love books more.

But it was the movies that allowed me to share the books with my young daughters. They would never have let me read such complicated texts to them if they had not seen the movies and couldn't get such a strong visual image from them. Now, if Elijah Wood would only play Hamlet in the next few years, their education would be set! :)

I know you'll all identify.

The set-up: I'm sitting in my studio putting the last touches on a sewing project. NPR "Morning Edition" is playing on the radio. I've read all your posts about initial reacitons to The Money Shot.

I'm contemplating Whiteling's Green Man...TG's "too young" Frodo...Pelagia's "creepy" first impressions...Eresh's swoonerlicious moment...Shireling's "Beautiful, joyful, innocent, fascinating, hypnotic, magical..."

NPR: Coming up on Morning Edition; the changing face of Passover wine! But first...

Frodo...Elijah...Frolijah...my eyes drift inexorably upward to rest on Frodo's lovely visage (not hard in my studio, as I've mentioned before.)

NPR: Elijah likes Maneschewitz, that's what we always said at my house!

Me: :confused: :confused: :confused: :lol:

honey!

:lol:

Been there, done that.

Tee hee.

NPR: Elijah likes Maneschewitz, that's what we always said at my house! In my house, Elijah had better like chardonnay, or he's out of luck. Manischewitz -- yuck....

Actually, when I was growing up, we used to call him "Leonuvi" -- don't ask me why -- I never did find out -- and besides reading the "Four Questions", my job was always to open the front door and let him in. It was only years later that I learned that was the prophet Elijah, which of course, would make me smile immeasurably to hear anyone say that these days!

You know you're getting really pathetic when you look forward to any scripture lessons that have something do with the prophet, just so you hear the name.

And I swear I like the band Green Day because there is something sort of Elijahey (like the coinage?) about Bille Jo Armstrong. Perhaps it's the little baby teeth, or the fondness for the f-word.

Pathetic. We're all pathetic.

But at least we're interesting.

Or at least we're interesting to each other.





Aren't we?

Actually, when I was growing up, we used to call him [Prophet Elijah] "Leonuvi" -- don't ask me why -- I never did find out

[Language geek mode]
It may have been a distortion of "Eliyahu Ha-Navi" which is Hebrew for "Elijah the Prophet".
[/Language geek mode]

BTW, do you know what North is looking at in the cap you posted above? ;)

It may have been a distortion of "Eliyahu Ha-Navi" which is Hebrew for "Elijah the Prophet".

I'm sure you're right, Brunhild -- thank you! That's bugged me for years!

BTW, do you know what North is looking at in the cap you posted above? ;)

Yep --
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v236/aquila0212/North-179.jpg

(Probably the very last time he ever looked at some of those like that! ;) )

Running in without enough time to go and properly quote everyone--but I love all of the thoughts about the money shot.

Whiteling:
.)... and I recall that this very first direct look of Frodo reminded me vaguely of a kind of nature spirit or an elemental being. An archetypical being, not quite real, and rather green. Something of this face fascinated me immediately, as well as it disturbed me to some extent


Beautifully put. For me, I thought, yes!!--he looks different. Not human. This is not a human. This now is "Hobbit." Even though he didnt' have all of the characteristics people are used to thinking about when they had thought of hobbits (I'm not sure the word "pretty" necessarily came in mind pre-Frolijah ;) )---he had a quality that made him look as if he is something other than human. Looking like that gave middle-earth more reality. MIddle-earth has real Hobbits :D . But then of course, on top of that--that special "extra-human" sort of look also lended the magic quality that is all Frodo. One that makes the tale of this hero more believably legend-worthy. He glows ;) :) We all are imprinted with that glow. ;)

Achila noted regarding the North photo above,

(Probably the very last time he ever looked at some of those like that! )
Some of what? Isn't that a man? (I never saw this film.)

~ Mechtild

Achila noted regarding the North photo above,
Some of what? Isn't that a man? (I never saw this film.) Er...uh...no.

Ereshkigal wrote:
. . . . he totally impressed me in that little quiet talk he has with Bilbo in Rivendell, when he says, "I'm not like you, Bilbo."
That’s one of my favorite scenes in FotR, and I think it’s one of Elijah’s best moments in the film. The shifting emotions that he conveys throughout the conversation just by the changes in his expression are amazing. Definitely a scene that benefits from use of the slow-motion key on the remote.

tgshaw wrote:
I think movie-Frodo was young both inside and outside simply because he was written that way. . . It's Frodo's equivalent of reluctant-king Aragorn, IMVHO. Aragorn has to become willing to become king, and Frodo has to grow up.
And I think that casting Frodo so young adds to the tragedy of his sacrifice. It would, of course, be tragic in any case. But a 50-year-old has already lived a good part of his life (even by long-lived hobbit standards), while movie-Frodo has basically given up the life he knows and yearns for, before he has a chance to live much of it.

BTW, Entertainment Weekly's new issue has their “summer movie preview.” I looked through the whole thing (which covers through August), and didn’t see anything about Everything Is Illuminated. This hasn’t been delayed, has it? :confused: It was mentioned in Premiere’s summer preview. Also BTW, LA Weekly has a short interview with the real Jonathan, here:
http://www.laweekly.com/ink/05/22/books-bernhard.php

Achila, I’ll forgive what I recall of the infelicities of North, for the sake of that screencap! And I agree about the hair color.

Pelagia, just thought I should let you know (after the fact :o ) that I absconded with the link to the Jonathan Safran Foer interview so I could post it in the "Everything Is Illuminated" thread.

tgshaw wrote:

BTW, Entertainment Weekly's new issue has their “summer movie preview.” I looked through the whole thing (which covers through August), and didn’t see anything about Everything Is Illuminated. This hasn’t been delayed, has it? :confused: It was mentioned in Premiere’s summer preview.So far as I know, the date hasn't been moved. Maybe EW thinks it's a "little movie" not worthy of mention?

EW did feature EII in the "Movies We're Anticipating This Year" article from a few months back, along with such little-known films as Star Wars III, Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, and a little flick from some tiny country about a monkey or some such (hee!).

If EII did get delayed to September, though, I wouldn't mind at all. A release schedule similar to Lost in Translation might make more people think about EII as an Oscar-worthy movie.

I have enjoyed the discussion about the Money Shot...
For myself, my experience was just like that of Whiteling... I had never even heard of Elijah at all before, not having seen either "Deep Impact", "The Ice Storm" or "The Faculty", which were the most recent films he did before LOTR...
Also, not being familiar with the story at all, never having read the book, I really was completely unprepared for this amazing unreal vision of an elf-like, whimsical blue-eyed sprite that came up on the screen before me...there was an audible gasp from the wholly British audience, who, like me I suspect, were equally unaware of this...someone was heard to say..."Wow...is he for real ??? "

From then on, I reckon, the audience, me included, bought into Elijah's performance completely and utterly...and by the end of the film, I was deeply and inexorably in love :rolleyes: ...
The next day, I learnt very quickly, from a rather amused Adam, how to operate around the Internet, quickly discovering all the major LOTR sites, and learning about this amazing-looking actor of rare talent for one so young...

All the talk about how the critics reacted to Elijah, in the first wave of reviews, prompted me to refer to the MRQE site and search out review quotes specifically alluding to Elijah's performance as Frodo...

This is a fairly representative selection of what I found:-

And Elijah Wood's Frodo holds the camera captivated in just about every one of his scenes. He shows equal parts boyishness and gravity. His face, all immense eyes, still glows with youthful innocence, but there's also something fearfully mature about it: If you've read the books, you'll see how that look points the way to the darker, more devastating turns this story will take from here

I so enjoyed the hobbits (notably Elijah "Let's run from a 1500 foot wall of water" Wood and Sean "Rudy! Rudy!" Astin), and Frodo has a devistatingly quiet and spot-on performance as The Little Guy Who Could. In a couple scenes you could just feel the weight of his burden and his aloneness even in the midst of allies.

But the happy things are perfect, too. Every lovely, round, jolly hobbit face, including the third cute hobbit child on the left in the party scene, are, unquestionably, hobbity. Elijah Wood (The Faculty, Deep Impact) is, simply, beautiful as Frodo Baggins, down to his dirty fingernails (how Jackson made the 5- foot- 7- ish Wood look utterly convincingly 3- foot- hobbitish is beyond my understanding of special effects). Of course, the happy things are here to be tainted by darkness. Wood understands the particular anguish of someone who's known only cheerful, earthy hedonism (easygoing hobbits love the good life) thrust into danger beyond his comprehension, never more so than when he comes under physical attack from forces of evil -- his heartrending screams of genuine terror and pain seem to encompass much more than mere physical injury but also a despair against the psychic affront to his sensibilities. This kind of thing is not supposed to happen to a nice hobbit.

Elijah has a difficult task because, even in the book, Frodo is kind of bland. He's the squeaky-clean good guy. Elijah manages to give Frodo a very palpable charm, a goodness that's not boring or sterile, but truly, genuinely good. You like him for being such a nice guy, but also for his strength. Elijah lets us know that Frodo is scared out of his mind while boldly choosing to tread on the path laid before him. That's exactly what Frodo is supposed to be. Elijah gets a gold star (or if there are no more in the blister pack, maybe a nice red one or a blue one will suffice).

And so on...nearly every review, where the reviewer mentioned actors individually, had something good to say about him in this role...rarely did I find any bad ones, with one exception, where the reviewer stated that Elijah Wood had just one bug-eyed startled expression throughout the film...( blah-blah :rolleyes: )...but that was only one out of about twenty I selected at random...not a bad ratio really !!

An additional ETA after reading Lady Wendy's post (see, just have to make a statement about it being quiet...)

Thanks for those reviews--Could I ask what MRQE stands for :o ? This is the first time in a l-o-n-g time I've seen FotR reviews that I don't remember reading before. And more about Elijah than 90% of 'em. :cool:

Thanks for the takes on the money shot, especially from those who were Tolkien virgins. Ever since the making of the movies was announced, I've said that their highest purpose would be to lead people to the book--that in the universal scheme of things, they weren't for Tolkien readers but for people who weren't (yet) Tolkien readers, so it was their responses that were most important--not "our" quibbles over what was different from the book. I still would have loved to have gotten a good "By Elbereth and Luthien the Fair, you shall have neither the Ring nor me!" from Elijah, but I think the movies have fulfilled their main purpose very well. I'm glad that my "Ohhh, nooo" worries didn't all come true. :k


-------------

It does get quieter in here on the weekends, doesn't it? You'd almost think people had lives or something :confused: .

FWIW, Weekend Today just did a very short/quick look at upcoming movies, including the summer, and EII wasn't mentioned. But they really didn't talk about very many. The movie mentioned for "Oscar buzz" was... well, I didn't catch the name :o but it's another based-on-a-true-story from the Beautiful Mind team of Russell Crowe and Ron Howard, this time about a boxer during the 1930's.

ETA (in my role as proofreader/copy editor for over 20 years): On a topic that I'm sure has been keeping many people besides myself awake at night :p , after much thought, I've decided that it really should be EII (as opposed to EiI). Is is, indeed, a very short word. But since it's a verb in the title, it should be capitalized even so (being short isn't necessarily a disadvantage ;) ).

--------------------

Very big stretch for being on-topic, but I found this investigation on AIDS research using foster kids interesting in light of Bumblebee--really more related to the book than the movie as, IMVHO, Barney's symptoms in the book are consistent with AIDS (including Kaposi's sarcoma) and this research was being done around the time the book would have been written:

http://start.earthlink.net/article/nat?guid=20050422/4269c840_3ca6_1552620050423-27261133

It's a newslink from my earthlink start page, so I'm not sure how long it will be operational.

Hello, Faculty!

For any Faculty member waiting for the statue of Kevin from SC, over at the NECA site, this week's is of Marv, with Kevin by his side. :eek: :eek: As usual, the sculptors just didn't quite get the face right.

http://www.necaonline.com/sincitynews22.html

C4

Lady Wendy - Thanks for posting that lovely selection of appreciative Elijah-as-Frodo reviews. Some of those I hadn't seen before. I love to read new - to me at least - positive reviews of Elijah's Frodo! :)

And may I please second Tg's question about MRQE? :confused:

ETA I see you've posted some links for MRQE, Lady Wendy. Thanks for those. 300 - 400 reviews on each film you say? I'll have a look - when I have an hour or ten to spare! :)

I think The Money Shot was just fine as our introduction to Film Frodo. As you say, Wendy, he has an 'unreal' quality - not as 'earthy' as the other hobbits. Also, Happy Party Frodo to me is delightful - I love him. He's PJ's young Frodo - full of energy and enthusiasm with his life still before him. You need only compare Party Frodo to the curious yet frightened young hobbit learning the truth abut the Ring from Gandalf in Bag End; the quietly withdrawn, grief-stricken 'One Tear' Frodo outside Moria, and the tearful, troubled soul on the riverbank 'screwing himself up' to go on alone at the end of FOTR, to see what an amazing job Elijah did with the character arc - and all that in FOTR! Of course he's not book Frodo (who has a special place in all our hearts), but he nailed PJ's vision - like it or not - of Film Frodo perfectly. :) I would have liked PJ to have done some things differently, and there are book scenes missing that I desperately wanted to see - scenes that I believe Elijah would have handled beautifully - but it was not to be.

On the whole, I love the films, and have learned to view them quite separately to the book. I admire and appreciate the heartfelt emotion and commitment Elijah poured into his Frodo - and he's just plain beautiful to look at! I can dip into Tolkien and get my fix of book Frodo any time I want. :)

Tg,I still would have loved to have gotten a good "By Elbereth and Luthien the Fair, you shall have neither the Ring nor me!" from Elijah,
Yes...I absolutely agree...
Here's what I had to say on the Elvish petition spoken in Shelob's Lair, whilst thrusting the Star-glass up to cast terror in his enemy's heart..and also the subject of the "Wheel of Fire" speech, in the Listening Room thread...comparing Sir Ian Holm's performance with that of Elijah...

Disc 10...Frodo speaking his Elvish petition was absolutely masterful, compared to EW's Frodo, I'm afraid to say...I always regretted that Elijah really rushed that out so fast that you could barely make out what he was saying...and if you did, you wouldn't understand it unless you were a book afficionado, and could understand who he was invoking, as the film didn't choose to enlighten us...Likewise, the "Wheel of Fire" speech...again, Ian Holm did a really beautiful Shakespearean actor job on that giving it to us as if it was a well-written piece of Poetry or Prose, which, of course, it is...Elijah Wood, on the other hand, delivered it as if he was panic-stricken and shaking with terror, which of course, Frodo was...

So which delivery is better ?

Ian Holm's speech was audible and moving, resulting in the listener feeling empathy for him, in all his plight...

Elijah Wood, on the other hand, made us feel very real anguish on his behalf, but we had to listen carefully lest we miss it, so rushed out it was...

I, personally come down on the side of Sir Ian, in the end, because, even though Frodo would probably have delivered it just the way Elijah did, the truth is that, in a dramatised version, the audience really needs to CONNECT with the actor at points like this, and not struggle to hear what he is saying...very possibly one of the few times when a stage-trained actor would have the upper edge over a film actor perhaps...
This is what makes Sir Ian Holm a great stage and film actor, and Elijah Wood only a potentially great film actor, imo...
I've absolutely no doubt that he'll get there in the end...he's already one of the best of the young actors in Hollywood today, ( and in my very personal view, he really does need to come to London and do some stage work in the West End...I'd pay good money to see him on stage !!! )



(Lady Wendy ducks the potential flying eggs coming her way after dissing Elijah like that.... :eek: )

The MRQE site is basically a review webring really....a staggering amount of review-links gathered together in one conveniant place...
(Warning - this will keep you quiet for days !!! )

Here's their link for FOTR :-
MRQE-FOTR (http://www.mrqe.com/lookup?^Lord+of+the+Rings%3a+The+Fellowship+of+the+Ring,+The+(2001))

and their link for TTT :-

MRQE-TTT (http://www.mrqe.com/lookup?isindex=The%20Lord%20of%20the%20Rings%3A%20The%20Two%20Towers)

and for ROTK :-

MRQE-ROTK (http://www.mrqe.com/lookup?Lord+of+the+Rings:+The+Return+Of+The+King)

There are roughly 300-400 reviews for each film cached here under each page !!!

Thank you for the links, Lady Wendy. :D

But you bring great evil here, MRQE-bearer! ;)

Miss ceefour: "Mom, are you on the computer again? I want breakfast!"

C4: "Now, do you have to eat now?"

Lady Wendy,

Thanks so much for the review snippets. It's wonderful to read positive reviews of Wood's performance in the film.

I also have to admit that I am envious of how you saw the films--without any book knowledge of ever an awareness of Wood. Jackson one time mentioned he would love to come to the movies like that himself--without knowledge of the books or his own process in making the films. That would have been great to come to the films like that. Even though the prologue was so thrilling to me even as a book fan that I had goosebumps, I would have been loved to have been spared the "compare game" that plagued me throughout the theatrical and extended edition releases. It is rare that I can turn my brain off and look at the movies as only the movies, and when I do, I usually enjoy them that much more. The reviews also help me reach that place.

Not to give the impression that I don't love the movies--I do, I do, I do (believe in Jackson). But it would have been great to experience the films without the knowledge of the books. On the other hand, there are great payoffs for book fans as well--the map from The Hobbit in Bag End, the lines from Bilbo's poem about Aragorn spoken during the reforging of Narsil, the title chapters inserted at strategic moments. Those little inside allusions were quite fun for us.

That's why I'm not going to reread The Hitchhiker's Guide before the movie. I love those novels (all four contained within the "Universe" anthology) and will be content to let the movie capture the spirit of the books, if not the letter. Casting Sam Rockwell as Zaphod was a great start.

De-Cloaking out of Lurk mode...yes I used to be a Trekker (never a Trekkie mind you :rolleyes: )

Good Afternoon
Had to contribute to the discussion re: TMS
I had seen FOTR on cable many times..but always caught it somewhere in the middle..never caught TMS.
But it wasn't until I saw the exchange between Frodo and Gandalf in Bag End that I got captured...watched it continue with increasing interest and then Like Pelagia I was OMG.. how wonderful....the moment when Frodo talks with Bilbo in Rivendell....the sadness in Frodo's eyes when he tells him....I'm not like you....everything is in those eyes and that performance!
Hooked...had to see it from the beginning...ran out to Blockbuster that very night and rented both FOTR and TT...then went to see ROTK the next morning.Boy I was exhausted...three loooong movies in a short span of time...life was never the same for me....Thank God.
BTW...my new kitten aptly named Mr. Frodo will make his screen debut here on The Faculty as soon as my daughter grabs an appropriate photo for me to post.
Big Waves to all my friends here.
I've missed all of you :k :k :k

ylla!! It's so nice to see you again!! :) :)

And thank you, Lady Wendy, for posting the review snippets. They are always wonderful to read. And news ones , too!!

Yeah, when I took a friend to see Fellowship for her first time (I had already seen it well, more than three times ;) ). She, being such a film buff turned with authority to my daughter after the showing and said, "they enhanced Frodo. Definitely enhanced--they did his eyes to give him that more magical look. That is definitely not the way the actor really looks." :rolleyes:

Ah, Elijah. Real life seems to have enhanced him. ;) I'm okay with that.

Some of you said that it was the movie you fell in love with. I fell for the movie, but it was Frodo, plus the enviroment of middle earth that made the movie gripping for me from the very beginning. As much as I loved the other perfomances, I still likely would have loved the movie even with one of the others played by someone else. As long as we had this magical Frodo and this beautiful Middle-earth,I think I would have stayed enthralled.

Yeah--"What must I do?" Just killed me.

I see HoneyElf tomorrow and the next and the next day!! Monday will be our movie day if I can get the house clear. Flipper and North. Two new ones for me!! :D

'Who Wants To Be A Millionaire' was just on TV here in the UK. A lady contestant - a head teacher - was faced with the two-thousand-pounds question:

'Who played the wizard Saruman in the Lord Of The Rings trilogy?'

Four names pop up on screen.

The poor woman looks blankly at the actors' names. 'Christopher Lee,' I scream at the TV.

'It isn't a girls' film.' she remarks. :eek: :confused: :rolleyes:

If only she knew! :) :D

P.S. She lost!

'It isn't a girls' film.' she remarks. :eek: :confused: :rolleyes: Good grief. Do you suppose she ever watched it for herself to find out?
:rolleyes:


In unrelated-but-still-Elijah news, some of you probably don't know it, but the Scandinavian version of Try Seventeen (and, yes, I believe they kept the original title there) had a behind-the-scenes extra that I don't think anyone else got. I have a link available for download of the clip, but I'd rather not post it publicly, as it's on a friend's website. It's around 14 minutes long and 80MB, so you pretty much have to have broadband to attempt downloading.

If you're interested, PM me, and I'll pass the link along! It's delightful. :)

'It isn't a girls' film.' she remarks......P.S. She lost! :D

That's just what she deserves. :rolleyes: Girl's film, indeed. Most of the students at her school probably have seen it dozens of times. She seems just little bit out of touch. :rolleyes: :D ;)

'It isn't a girls' film.' she remarks. :eek: :confused: :rolleyes:


I still don't understand why some people think that The Lord of the Rings movies (probably the books, too) would not be of interest to females.

Why wouldn't the combination of exceptional source material and a veritable smorgasbord of man flesh (including Elijah) be appealing to women? Yes, The Lord of the Rings is an adventure story, and a very good one, but it is so much more than that...

I just don't get it.

I would answer this very pertinent question, Sandcastles, but I'm barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen, and have no time for reading. :rolleyes:

I'm barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen, and have no time for reading.

Just your average hobbit female.

Why wouldn't the combination of exceptional source material and a veritable smorgasbord of man flesh (including Elijah) be appealing to women?

Heh. That's what I said when I saw that Millionnaire question too, only not so elegantly. 'But it's full of hot totty!'

Re TMS - I remember that the first time I saw FOTR I really thought I had been transported into another world - couldn't work out how they'd made the hobbits smaller at all - and EW was the main reason for this. Everything was magical, but if had just been the background, I would've have been as moved as I was. But because EW was there experiencing all the magic at the same time, but looking just so other-worldly, I was completely entranced. I still feel the same every time I watch LOTR!

Ah, Elijah. Real life seems to have enhanced him.

What an excellent way of putting it!

Correction about Entertainment Weekly’s summer preview issue: I later found EII listed in the issue on a “calendar,” for August 12. No writeup, just the listing. (I missed it before because the “calendar” was on the inside of a Revlon ad in the center of the magazine – one of those things on heavier paper that I always just tear out and toss.) Sorry. (But I do think that EII deserved a more prominent mention. Not that I’m biased.)

Alyon wrote, describing a friend’s reaction to FotR:
She, being such a film buff turned with authority to my daughter after the showing and said, "they enhanced Frodo. Definitely enhanced--they did his eyes to give him that more magical look. That is definitely not the way the actor really looks." :lol:

tg, the other “based-on-a-true-story from the Beautiful Mind team of Russell Crowe and Ron Howard, this time about a boxer during the 1930's” is called Cinderella Man.

Let me second Lady Wendy's endorsement of MRQE. It’s a terrific resource, with a wide range of reviews, everything from the NY Times to bloggers (though I think it’s US-only). And it is highly addictive. (Thanks for the review clips, Lady Wendy.)

ylla! Welcome back!

I’m not even going to comment on “It isn’t a girls’ film.” Well, all right, I can't restrain myself. Let's see: "girls" of course wouldn't be drawn to a complex and exciting story with themes of good/evil, loyalty/friendship, duty/responsibility, etc.; to a wide array of fascinating and sympathetic characters; to gorgeous scenery and music; to brilliant, detailed constructions of several different "cultures;" not to mention the already-cited fact that these movies represent the greatest assemblage of attractive men I've ever seen onscreen. Gee, "girls" -- let's all go see something with Britney Spears! :rolleyes:

Ylla, it was a pleasure to see your name in print up there. I hope you and your family are well.

Of your first experiences with FotR, you wrote,

But it wasn't until I saw the exchange between Frodo and Gandalf in Bag End that I got captured...watched it continue with increasing interest and then Like Pelagia I was OMG.. how wonderful....the moment when Frodo talks with Bilbo in Rivendell....the sadness in Frodo's eyes when he tells him....I'm not like you....everything is in those eyes and that performance!

You bring it all back to me. It was not TMS that got me, watching, but the later scenes, just as you describe. When I first saw TMS, I merely thought, "Hmm. Cute." And that was that. I was ready for the next scene.

But, once smitten with the character of Frodo, repeat viewings of TMS made my heart sing! It really isn't the beauty, you see, it's the love. The greatest beauty on earth can fail to move, if there is no love. But once there is love, what a wound that same beauty makes!

~ Mechtild

YOu know, even before the movies, when LOTR was only (ha, only) a book, it was girls who read it more than boys, in my experience. I remember I had a circle of girlfriends who had all read the book, but only one male friend (and he was great, far more interesting and geeky--in the good sense--than the average guys) who had.

Of course, my husband read it in high school and loved it, but he liked fantasy, sci-fi and horror almost exclusively, and still reads little else. I didn't know him then. I suspect he wouldn't have associated with me in high school--I was so geeky I was scary to average people.

Like I did a book report on The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich in 10th grade and chose to argue the communist side just for the sake of it on a school debate of communism vs. capitalism. I am not now nor have ever been a communist (ahem), but I thought the debate needed a little pepping up. That destroyed my social life for years.

Ylla--hope everyone is well.

Mech--how you doing? Do you have voice yet?

Ereshikigal, you risked social ignominy on behalf of The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich -- even to "pep it up"? I never even had heard of it until reading novels focussed on the Holocaust, which was not till later, for me. I reaped social ignominy just for my clothes! (That was back when I cared about what I wore.)

My voice is good, Ereshkigal, although it is uncomfortable, still, to use it. But thank you for asking. :k My wounds are more psychological than physical at present.

Someone, tell me again the schedule for the projected release dates of Elijah Wood's projects. Thanks so much. :z:

~ Mechtild

Re: mostly females reading lotr -Sorry to interupt, but that's not my experience at all! Prior to movie (at least - and still) most of my men friends read it and only 2 of my women friends read it. Same at work (about a dozen guys were already book fans, and only 1 woman - besides me). By the time the movies came out, 5 men and I went to see them together - no women. :eek:

It really isn't the beauty, you see, it's the love. The greatest beauty on earth can fail to move, if there is no love. But once there is love, what a wound that same beauty makes! Oh, Mechtild! How truely you say it :k

Lady Wendy, Tg et al - Great insights on Frodo as acted. And I agree with your criticisims too Lady Wendy.

Naiad, yes, what Wendy said was most astute. And it gives me pleasure to know that you have the same sort of sense about which holds more sway: love or beauty.

As for LotR and its fans ("male or female?"), there is no one among my immediate family or acquaintance who cares for this book. No wonder I am so thrilled that there are LotR messageboards!


~ Mechtild

((((((BUNNIE,THANKS FOR THE LINK))))))

((((YLLA,GREAT TO "SEE" YOU))))

the first shot that i feel in love with i have to
think about i get back to you!!!! :k :k :k
becuse i have no ider ,i think i feel in love at first sight!! :p :D :cool:


LOVE YOU ALL/WOOD

edit:well i have thought all day,quiet day at work!! :D
tha first shot that made me fall for frodo and elijah must bee when he turns to gandalf in bagend and say "Baggines ,Shire , but that will lead them here!!!!
the look in that beautiful face hmmmmm
or when Frodo sas "What must i do??" and when he stands with the envelope
in his hands after gandalf leaves him!!!!!
it is one of those three scens and then i was totally lost!!!!
sorry, but i can`t find any pictures of those shots in my album!!!
but i DO think you all know what i mean!!!!!!

LOVE YOU ALL/WOOD

edit again!! :D found this ,it maybe shows a bit what i talked about!!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v399/erendil/orangefrodo1.jpg

WOOD

just me again: simulposted with you Mechtild!!!! :k
well i don`t either have any body who is so crasy about this books or movies like i am!! :(
the rest of my family just loves the movies but on a more "normal" base
then i am!!!they can`t read the books they are to hard to read they say!!
but a little confesion time!! :(
i must say i love the books a little more then the books but i think the reson for that is a surten actor!! :k :cool: :rolleyes:

WOOD

edit again!!were is everyone!!! found this little sippet from an articel about sin city!!!

While silencing Rings' Frodo may seem to risk alienating his fans, for Wood that risk was worth the potential payoff.

"I was psyched to play Kevin," Wood says. "I wasn't looking to shine, I was just looking to be a part of something that I knew was going to be special

he is very specell isen`t he???!!

wood

I don’t think anybody has posted this (from Entertainment Weekly):
Wednesday, May 4, on MTV, 8-9 pm EDST: “I’m Still Here: Real Diaries of Young People Who Lived During the Holocaust.” MTV takes a well-advised break from showcasing young people who host pimped-out birthday parties with this Holocaust doc narrated by celebs like Kate Hudson and Elijah Wood. Though the voice-overs are occasionally awkward (Brittany Murphy as a starving Jewish teen?), the teenage victims’ courage and innocence (one girl worries about an upcoming history test) will leave viewers haunted.

Testing. Honey has now initiated me into the world of photobucket. Maybe. this is a test.


Ah yes, try this on...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v514/alyonir/frododarkportrait.bmp

If it works, then life is good :)

EDIT: Experimenting again. And will anyone complain about seeing this picture yet again?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v514/alyonir/frododarkportrait.bmp

Lovely!

You'll find that if you copy just the URL and paste it into the messageboard image tags, you won't get the extra [IMG] tags on each side. :) Or, you can skip the step of inserting it through the messageboard, and just post the copied code from Photobucket!

Thank you, Bunnie. You posted-- which means I can post YET AGAIN. I'm sitting here with Honey and both of us are still contemplating all the depth of NORTH, and ummm...Flipper. Yep. A day..spent. Well. Spent. We had fun :D And that Elijah kid, is well, cute..which means, yes, a day well spent.

So there was dark Frodo. Here is dark Elijah :D
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v514/alyonir/dark.bmp

Alyon, all we need to do to legitimize our Elijah viewings is to give it a sporting name. Honestly, people will spend all day chasing a ball all over a park, call it golf (and if they ride in a cart it is not exercise), and say it is legitimate. I'd say your day spent watching and comparing Flipper and North was hardly less productive than the days my husband spends watching college basketball games just to see what the teams who will be playing our team look like.

So, any suggestions on names? Elwoodball? Elijahsack? Woodcraft? Ooops, that one is taken.

Personally, I prefer the ever-popular "Wood working". Everyone needs a hobbit...er...hobby, right?! ;)

Pelegia and Achila, enjoy your trip to Tribeca to see Hooligans. Don't forget your notebooks (so you look like movie reviewers), wear black (you'll be in NYC), and remember not to squee-ee-ee when EW appears on screen (unless, of course, everyone else is, and then you must squee for all of us. With decorum, as befits Faculty members. ;) )

C4

Ceefour wrote,

Pelegia and Achila, enjoy your trip to Tribeca to see Hooligans. Don't forget your notebooks.

Yes, yes! We want reports! Both critical and fan-ish. That is, with intelligent commentary; yet, squeeing -- if the performance is squee-worthy. :z:

Excitedly,

~ Mechtild

morning all!!!

yeas yeas , ágree reports,reports!!!!!

please please!! :z: :z:

and a very safe journey to both of you!!!!!!!


LOVE YOU ALL/WOOD

I have been away a while and have only been able to skim through the last few pages of posts, so I can't actually remember who said what to be able to quote.

With reagrd to LOTR not being a girls' film, I have to say in that quiz show woman's defense that my first introduction to the trilogy was through the cinema trailers for ROTK, and my abiding memory was that the film was all about the day of the big battle having arrived. The shots that stayed in my mind were of the long line of men on horses, a little rosy cheeked boy on a horse, and a couple of shots of some kind of rose-rinted love story that reminded me of a cheesy film with Tom Cruise and some fairies (I think it is called Legend). It didn't seem to know what it was marketing itself as, but the main emphasis was definitley on the battle.

I only ended up watching FOTR because a relative (female, I might add) had received 2 copies for xmas, and she offered me one to try. What you are calling 'the money shot' made no impression on me at all, and in fact Frodo himself didn't really make much impact on me either way at first. It was the film as a whole that I enjoyed, and the characters of the other 3 hobbits that caught my attention and kept me watching. I was also attracted visually to Viggo and Orlando, while finding Frodo at times rather strange looking. It was only at the very end of the film, where he is stood on the beach, ring in hand and tears on his face that I fell in love with him. From second viewing on, I see the films now from a totally Frodocentric perspective, and I am so glad it wasn't love or lust at first sight. The realtionship I have developed with the character is much more fulfilling.

Thanks to whoever for the link to the Hooligans trailer. I have to say, I didn't find Elijah's voice fitted the role very well. I know he is supposed to be a playing a fish out of water character, and I can't really put my finger on what is wrong with it, but it just wasn't right. I took it he was supposed to be reading from a journal he'd written, but it sounded like he wasn't convinced by what he was saying, and was just reading someone else's badly written lines off an autocue. Physically, I have no problems seeing him as a tough fighter, but his voice is so much better suited to a dancing penguin. From this trailer, I can sympathise with the people who said he was miscast in Ash Wednesday, as his lines in that film are read in a similar way. I am hoping that the voice over was just for the trailer, and that the film itself isn't narrated in this way.

I have occasionally wondered whether having spent to much time with English actors, and speaking with an English accent so much for LOTR has affected his own way of speaking. Perhaps when he comes to being in England to shoot somthing like Hooligans, he subconciously develops an accent that is somewhere between his own and that being spoken around him, and just sounds strange. I know when I am with people with accents such as Scottish, Liverpudlian or anything American/Canadian, while not completely taking on their accent, I can not retain my own natural way of speaking and on holiday videos I sound really odd and false.

...I have to say in that quiz show woman's defense...
Hey, you've gotten that far 'cause you're supposed to be smart, you screw up the big question, and to make it worse from the audience reaction (I'm assuming) you can tell most of them knew the answer... The first excuse that comes to mind is the one that'll be used... :(

...I took it he was supposed to be reading from a journal he'd written, but it sounded like he wasn't convinced by what he was saying, and was just reading someone else's badly written lines off an autocue.
I'll admit that something that concerns me more than the violence is the line from a review that said the dialogue--especially Matt's--was full of cliches. Do please give us your reports on that, Achila and Pelagia :z: . Of course, some people's cliches are other people's "fresh, original dialogue," depending on your background.

I have occasionally wondered whether having spent to much time with English actors, and speaking with an English accent so much for LOTR has affected his own way of speaking. Perhaps when he comes to being in England to shoot somthing like Hooligans, he subconciously develops an accent that is somewhere between his own and that being spoken around him, and just sounds strange. I know when I am with people with accents such as Scottish, Liverpudlian or anything American/Canadian, while not completely taking on their accent, I can not retain my own natural way of speaking and on holiday videos I sound really odd and false.
The strangest accent I ever heard was a girl (in her late teens at that point, IIRC) whose life had consisted of six months of each year living with one parent in Texas and the other six months in Indiana with the other parent. I couldn't put a label on it--almost sounded like some kind of a brogue. (But she still bought Dr. Pepper out of Coke machines* ;) ;) ).

Seems that some accents are picked up more easily than others. When members of my family have spent a couple of years in the South, they've picked up a southern accent, which they don't hear themselves, very quickly, although they lose it again after moving somewhere else. But southerners seem to keep the accent no matter how long they live somewhere else. That end of things could be partly a matter of pride in their heritage, but the fact that northerners who have no desire to be southerners pick up the accent so quickly IMHO says something intrinsic about it.


*To the uninitiated: In many areas in the South, there is no such thing as a "soft drink," "soda," or even "pop." Everything is "a Coke." It might be 7-up or Pepsi or root beer, but it's still "a Coke." So vending machines that sell such beverages are "Coke machines." I asked someone in Texas once what she'd call a machine that sold Pepsi, and she just looked at me funny. But, in a seeming contradiction, Dr. Pepper is the state non-alcoholic beverage of Texas. (I don't know if that's official, but if it isn't it should be.) However, you don't drink Dr. Pepper with breakfast--that's reserved for Coke.

--This post did have a point, at one point, I think... :confused:

Achila and I will do our best to take in and remember everything we can about Hooligans. Of course, the Faculty must realize that the sight of Mr. Wood onscreen tends to shut out all other sights and sounds, at least the first time through a movie. Surrounding scenery fades; dialogue spoken by other cast members degenerates into mumbles; the mind goes somewhat blank. You know of what I speak. But we’ll try. (ceefour, I do have my notebook; but I look really dead in black.)

Alyon, congratulations on your first picture-postings! What I do, after I load a bunch of pix into Photobucket, is to then copy all the image tags into a Word document, along with a brief title for each one (so that I know what picture the tag refers to). Then, when I want to post a picture, I just go to my Word document, copy the tag I want, and paste it into the post (instead of having to go back into Photobucket).

Skater girl wrote:
I know when I am with people with accents such as Scottish, Liverpudlian or anything American/Canadian, while not completely taking on their accent, I can not retain my own natural way of speaking
I have the same problem. I don’t take on the accent, but I do pick up the inflections. (You should have heard me after nearly a year in Devon, in the UK. I could have auditioned for a role as a hobbit!)

Skater girl, you wrote of the Hooligans clip,

I took it he was supposed to be reading from a journal he'd written, but it sounded like he wasn't convinced by what he was saying, and was just reading someone else's badly written lines off an autocue. Physically, I have no problems seeing him as a tough fighter, but his voice is so much better suited to a dancing penguin. From this trailer, I can sympathise with the people who said he was miscast in Ash Wednesday, as his lines in that film are read in a similar way. I am hoping that the voice over was just for the trailer, and that the film itself isn't narrated in this way.
I know what you mean about that voiceover. It sure didn't make me want to watch the film. :rolleyes: Yet, the reviews coming back have been pretty exciting. When I watched that clip on 4/21 from Achila's link, I was extremely disappointed with it, especially with EW's vocal work on it, but didn't have the gumption to comment on it in here. At TORc's EW thread, I wrote (4/23),

I confess I found Elijah's voice-over exceedingly dull in that trailer. I can think of only two reasons why that should have been so, since he did such great voice-overs as Frodo in RotK. Either he was directed to do it that way (and we all know how amenable to directoral suggestion he is) for some reason or other, or because Matt, as a character, is a dull speaker. No wonder they threw Matt out of Harvard.
I hadn't thought of it being a matter of accents. That's an interesting idea. And I have not seen Ash Wednesday, so I didn't know he had done some dull voiceover work in that, too.

I am hoping it is just a matter of poor or wrong direction. My impression from things posted at AICN about the film, was that the film's dialogue was so laced with obsceneties, there was nothing they could use for a trailer. I didn't think they were supposed to be joking. Perhaps, then, they decided to go with this idea of showing a lot of footage, with a voiceover provided by Matt, since he is supposed to be providing the POV for this film. I was hoping that this little trailer was a rushjob, just to get something out there, and that there was not actually going to be any voiceover used in the film itself.

I don't remember a voiceover being mentioned in any of the reviews. Does anyone remember hearing that there was?

Pelagia, Achila, we anxiously await your reports! Have a wonderful time, you lucky dogs! :k

~ Mechtild

remember not to squee-ee-ee when EW appears on screen (unless, of course, everyone else is, and then you must squee for all of us. With decorum, as befits Faculty members. ;)
Precisely, Ceefour. As Gene Kelly says in SitR, "Dignity. Always, dignity!" ;) :p

Alyon, I am one of those who I think, I'm not sure, but possibly I might be becoming offended by your posting the same picture yet again. Why don't you try a repeat, to see if I really am? :p

I'm sitting here with Honey and both of us are still contemplating all the depth of NORTH, and ummm...Flipper. Yep. A day..spent. Well. Spent.
I so agree. It is certainly as "productive" of anything else people do for leisure. Seize life and enjoy it, I say!

Skater girl, I think your analysis of the ROTK trailer was spot on. "It didn't seem to know what it was marketing itself as." I suppose by then they figured, if you weren't in the know, don't bother coming. But all that fighty stuff is I think supposed to appeal to young men, whether they understand it or not. Oh, and there's a girl--same reasoning.

Physically, I have no problems seeing him as a tough fighter, but his voice is so much better suited to a dancing penguin.
*grin* Perhaps. I also noticed the muddy accent you commented on, both with myself and I think with Elijah as well. It's sort of a blend-in trait that some people do without realizing it. (Ah, as I see by the number of posters who commented on this same trait.) It is disappointing to me, however. I want the actor to be fully the character in every single role. Perhaps I know too much about Elijah now, but I don't want to be speculating about his accent when I watch a movie, I want to be drawn into that particular movie. If Elijah can't successfully do that, his newfound following will lose interest, IMVHO.

Well, I hope this is all a lot of inapplicable speculation for H, and that the trailer will be some one-off thing as Mechtild suggested. Ace reporters, your audience awaits!

I also noticed the muddy accent you commented on, both with myself and I think with Elijah as well. It's sort of a blend-in trait that some people do without realizing it. (Ah, as I see by the number of posters who commented on this same trait.) It is disappointing to me, however. I want the actor to be fully the character in every single role. Perhaps I know too much about Elijah now, but I don't want to be speculating about his accent when I watch a movie, I want to be drawn into that particular movie. If Elijah can't successfully do that, his newfound following will lose interest, IMVHO. Okay, I just have to step in here in the lad's defense. I had a discussion elsewhere about his "accent" in the trailer, and I'd like to humbly submit the following possibility:

At the point when Matt was saying all of this, he'd probably been in England for awhile. He had struggled to fit in, learn the local lingo, be accepted by the firm... isn't it possible that the "muddy" accent is a result of that? Matt's American accent is starting to blend with the local one, whether subconsciously or intentionally.

I, personally, know people that this happens to (my husband, for one), and it happens fairly quickly. So, my opinion is that Elijah is in character for this voice-over. I agree that it's not the best bit of dialog I ever heard, but I don't have that much of a problem with his delivery. From what I hear about his character, he is somewhat soft-spoken. And it's possible that it was recorded specifically for trailer purposes. Hopefully, we'll know for sure soon, when Achila and Pelagia return with their report.

Anyway. My two cents.
:)

HI ALL!!

I AM NOT AN EXPERT IN THIS KIND OF AREA BUT I THINK I
HAVE TO AGREE WITH BUNNIE!!!
IT COULDE BE THE MIXTER OF AMERICAN AND THE LOCAL
ENGLISH!!
WELL ANYWAY I LIKE HIS VOICE EVEN IF THE MONOLOGE
WASEN`T THE BEST I HAVE HEARD!!
AND LIKE BUNNIE SAD WE HAVE TO WAIT UNTILL ACHILA AND PELAGIA
IS BACK WITH FULL REPORT!!! :k :k

well i can`t think of a better way to spend the day!!
watching elijah goddis!!!!! :D :


LOVE YOU ALL/WOOD

*fetches her hanky to wave farewell to Achila and Pelagia, the special ambassadors of the Faculty* - I apply for the purchase of a user-to-user connection in the view of such momentous occasions. :z:


At the point when Matt was saying all of this, he'd probably been in England for awhile. He had struggled to fit in, learn the local lingo, be accepted by the firm... isn't it possible that the "muddy" accent is a result of that? Matt's American accent is starting to blend with the local one, whether subconsciously or intentionally.

I think, that's quite possible. Elijah's mood in the Hooligans trailer's voiceover sounded to my non-native ears like the tone of someone who is feeling unsettled, not knowing where he belongs to.


YAY, Alyon, your first (two) pics :)! One picture per eye, that's much better than 3D, if you ask me ;). Congratulations!

I remember having somewhat the same thoughts when people complained that Elijah didn't have a "New York accent" in Ash Wednesday. Sean had been living in Texas for 3 (?) years. Who knows what kind of an accent could come out of that mix? Now, this raises an important research question (are the field investigators taking notes? :p ): Does Matt begin the movie with a full American accent, and gradually change into one that combines some British with it? That would be a masterful job!

I know a lot of people disagree with me on this, but I think accents is one area that doesn't come as naturally for Elijah as a lot of the other aspects of acting. So it's an area where the quality of the direction/coaching can affect how well he does. I'm not saying he can't do a great job at it, but IMVHO, it's something he has to consciously concentrate on rather than doing by instinct (kind of like his "fabulous falls": a talent/skill rather than a gift).

Hooligans did win the top two awards in its category at both film festivals where it's been shown. Hopefully that doesn't just mean that the rest of the movies were really crappy. ;) It must have something going for it. :)

Hooligans did win the top two awards in its category at both film festivals where it's been shown. Hopefully that doesn't just mean that the rest of the movies were really crappy. ;) It must have something going for it. :)
Hear, hear! Let us know, brave reporters!

Bunnie, thank you for that interpretation of Matt's accent. See, this is why message boards are great! I'll happily buy that reasoning. Also, the movie can be so totally different, who knows? (Well, Achila and Pelagia soon will.) :)

I was one of those who complained about Elijah's accent in Ash Wednesday as well. But I didn't care for the whole movie. I saw it once, basically being appalled the entire time. Argh, that awful awful script! (Just my opinion, folks!) Then I rewound it to watch Elijah's first and last scene, and I was done forever. Unlike most of his other movies, which I have watched multiple times and continue to enjoy. But when a character or movie doesn't work for me, it just doesn't work, even though it's Elijah in the role.

Originally posted by tgshaw:
I know a lot of people disagree with me on this, but I think accents is one area that doesn't come as naturally for Elijah as a lot of the other aspects of acting.

I'd agree that Elijah's accent does sound somewhat mid-Atlantic in the Hooligans trailer, but as I know I've said before (probably many times!!), when I saw FOTR for the first time, not knowing anything about him, I really believed he was English. And being English myself, I'd say that means he did a pretty good job :) And I don't know whether the Americans here will agree with me, but to my ears his Southern accent in 'The War' sounds really convincing.

Originally posted by Skater Girl:
I know when I am with people with accents such as Scottish, Liverpudlian or anything American/Canadian, while not completely taking on their accent, I can not retain my own natural way of speaking and on holiday videos I sound really odd and false.

Glad to know I'm not the only one :D When I was in California I found the accent really infectious and felt almost immediately that I was talking in the same way, though it may not have actually come across the same (the 'lovely' :rolleyes: Birmingham accent is difficult to shake off.) And its not only accents with me, I often find myself adopting the speech patterns of people I know when I'm in conversation with them. Perhaps I need some sort of therapy :eek: And here's the really embarrassing bit - I've obviously been listening to a certain young man too often - yes, I quite often catch myself using Elijah's expressions & speech mannerisms. :o

Also, I hope no-one minds if I resurrect the swearing discussion as I just didn't have time to comment when it was going on. To me, the problem with over-usage of swear words is that they completely lose their impact. What do people say when they really have reason to swear? When I was young the word 'bloody' was considered quite a bad word but since then it has been used so much no-one raises an eyebrow. This is obviously going to happen with the 'f' & 'c' words before long. In the Rolling Stone article Elijah said that the thing to do with swear words was to 'dilute' them by using them a lot - I know what he means - but there will be nothing left when real shock value is required ;)

Alyon ~ you chose so well for your first pic posting - you can post that beautiful pic as often as you like :D

...when I saw FOTR for the first time, not knowing anything about him, I really believed he was English. And being English myself, I'd say that means he did a pretty good job :)
Yes, and I'm all the more "proud" of him :p when I hear that, because I think it is something that he puts more effort into than the areas of his acting that seem to come to him almost instinctively. (Supposition based on several things. One is his believing at the time that his accent was perfectly fine in OT--and saying that it was "easy." It's also a part of his acting that seems to depend at least partially on how good the director is. And the only time I've ever heard of Elijah J. Wood being embarrassed in front of a camera was when someone tried to take a "behind the scenes" video of him working with the dialect coach on LotR--IIRC, he threw a piece of clothing over the camera lens; very uncharacteristic!)

That doesn't mean I don't think he does a great job, or even that he has to work harder at accents than other actors do. Just that it doesn't come as naturally to him as some other parts of his acting. For example, I doubt if he's ever had to work with a coach on his eyebrow-squinching, jaw-setting or nostril acting :p . But my thinking that it's something he puts effort into just makes me admire him more--when he could "get by" as an actor quite well with just his natural ability.

And I don't know whether the Americans here will agree with me, but to my ears his Southern accent in 'The War' sounds really convincing.
Southern accents are tricky, because they vary so much from place to place. But there were a couple of Mississippians on the discussion board a few years ago who confirmed that Stu had a much better than "okay" Mississippi accent.

ETA: Our google ads at this moment are one for "slang flash cards" and three for language coaches, one them specifically for "British accent reduction." :D

This is a little off-topic from what we've been discussing, but I thought you all might like to see this scan that a friend of mine made from UK magazine Radio Times in reference to a showing of FOTR on Saturday. It has some interesting things to say about Elijah:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v32/bunniebugs/misc/elijahrtbig.jpg

Let me know if you have trouble reading the slightly blurry print; I will translate if necessary. ;)

TGShaw:
And the only time I've ever heard of Elijah J. Wood being embarrassed in front of a camera was when someone tried to take a "behind the scenes" video of him working with the dialect coach on LotR--IIRC, he threw a piece of clothing over the camera lens; very

Where? Where? Is this on one of the special feature disks? And if so, how did I miss it??

Regarding the talk about accents. I'm not great at picking up languages--but accents and inflections...and even facial expression?? Yeah just put me in a room with someone with mannerisms and before long, and without meaning to, there I am mirroring them.

When my husband and I did two months trip in Britain several years ago we would travel to one part of the country, then spend our days walking from village to village, staying in BandBs and hostels. I was sure before the trip was out that I would be talking like a Brit. But what happened instead was that I became possessive of my own "accent" and resisted being a shape-shifter :D Though there were definitely certain things I picked up...Especially after staying with a Welsh family.

Now British accents are a bit more confusing to me since studying up a little about the history of English and the various imigration patterns in the US. I start hearing all of the commonalities and sometimes I find it hard to discern the differences in accents that used to be very obvious to me :confused: I don't remember all the details, but Scottish people, for example, settled in the Appalachians--so some southern accents have Scottish roots from what, the 18th century? Sometimes I hear Liverpudlian in the Boston accent? there are some common histories...it is interesting to see how accents diverge from the evolution of the accent in the mother country....

Sorry, strayed there a bit. I always think of Elijah as having a bit of his own personal accent. Must be the Elvish blood... ;)

I just had a lovely couple of days with HoneyElf. We could giggle in code to one another when we visited the home of a friend of mine and in her daughter's room we found a picture of Elijah on the wall. Oh, my, we at least can laugh at ourselves. In code... :) We certainly did not let on to the other adult in the room. :o :)

Interesting article, Bunnie. Must comment later!!

Thank you for the article, Bunnie! It's an interesting take on EW's career. I had a friend who was "cursed" with the baby face. Even in his 40s, he looks young. Yes, I know, such a burden. :p Anyhow, when he was establishing his business when he was in his thirties, he had fake glasses he would wear for meetings with clients. No prescription, but just big fogey glasses that he hoped would make him look older and therefore worthy of their business. So youth can be a problem.

Elijah said that the thing to do with swear words was to 'dilute' them by using them a lot - I know what he means - but there will be nothing left when real shock value is required
I agree with this. Any repeated word loses its meaning and becomes just noise. But I come down hard on it in a script because an entertainer is out for emotional impact. You don't get emotion by diluting your words. You have to choose them carefully, and arrange them for maximum impact. Is it "true" dialog? Heavens, no! Fictional dialog is as much removed from real speech as legal speech is removed from the way we commonly talk. It is (and should be) crafted for an impact.

A bit OT: This would include documentaries, where the "real dialog" has to be portrayed in a certain way to create that impact (regular dialog is really repetitive and dull. Record and transcribe any conversation, and you'll see). Unfortunately, I think the boringness of real dialog is what gave birth to the "sound bite" -- you take the only interesting thing in five minutes of blather and show it. However, the rest of the blather is in fact necessary for context. It's a tough problem.

I thought that was a pretty astute article, BunnieBugs; thank you. However, I am enough of a Fro-swooner to have ambivalent feelings about him "getting older." I thought, when I read about his smoking, "Eek! That's TERRIBLE for his health, and will spoil his lovely skin! But, since it will certainly age him more quickly, pretty soon he'll be able to play Robert Carlyle parts, which would be good for him as an actor."

Shees!

Mariole, you are so right about the difference between "real" dialogue and "dramatic" dialogue (in written or filmed stories). They are not identical; and shouldn't be.

Alyon, I loved your annecdote about your time with HoneyElf:

We could giggle in code to one another when we visited the home of a friend of mine and in her daughter's room we found a picture of Elijah on the wall. Oh, my, we at least can laugh at ourselves. In code... We certainly did not let on to the other adult in the room.
HA!!!

~ Mechtild

Pelegia and Achila, enjoy your trip to Tribeca to see Hooligans. Don't forget your notebooks (so you look like movie reviewers), wear black (you'll be in NYC), and remember not to squee-ee-ee when EW appears on screen (unless, of course, everyone else is, and then you must squee for all of us. With decorum, as befits Faculty members. ;) )
Will do, sweetie. I just hope I can handle the pressure of being the eyes and ears of The Faculty.....

ETA: Had to come back and comment on that article Bunnie posted for us (very interesting -- thank you!). I appreciate what is said about the "vertically challenged" bit, and the writer mentioned some of those same actors that we ourselves have named who have transcended their..ahem...shortcomings (sorry :o ). But I have to say that overall, this was a bit stupid -- it implied that Elijah himself has had no hand in guiding his own destiny, and that he hasn't prospered because he's been turned down for "big roles". This is not strictly true. We know for a fact that there were roles in "blockbusters" that he was offered, that he turned down, and has said repeatedly that he wanted to do smaller films. He has garnered extremely good notices for the smallish parts he has played and is following his own philosophy of doing something different each time. There's no question that he will (most likely) never top The Lord of the Rings, either in character scope or size of box office. But this reviewer fails to mention that he is the STAR of the two films he has yet to release this year, indies though they may be (EII isn't really but we won't quibble). His name comes ABOVE the title of EII. And I would remind him that...er...size doesn't count.

You know, that truly is a ridiculous double standard. Does Natalie Portman look too young? Scarlett Johansson? Of course not.

Finally, considering the number of crap movies out there these days, if all that is available to Lij are miserable rom coms, I'd rather see him never make another movie until he's 30.

OK, after reading the recent posts, I now have a rationale to use, if asked why I’m going to see Hooligans tomorrow: I’m doing research for a scholarly paper on “The Variety of Local Accents and Argot Among Violent Followers of London Football Clubs, and the Impact of Immersion in This Subculture on the Speech Patterns of Sensitive, Gorgeous, Blue-eyed Dropouts from Prestigious American Universities.” (Perhaps I should leave out the "Gorgeous, Blue-eyed" part of the title, for more convincing camouflage.)

Achila wrote:
You know, that truly is a ridiculous double standard. Does Natalie Portman look too young? Scarlett Johansson? Of course not.
I may have said this here before, but it seems as if the early-20s period, for male actors, is analogous to the over-45 period for actresses, in terms of difficulty in getting roles. And doesn’t that just reflect the prejudices of society in general (in the US, anyway)?

Ooooh, squee for the Hooligans-goers. May the good will of all free Folk go with you! Pelagia, I love the title of your proposed paper. And when it is available in DVD, you can get screencaps and audio clips to illustrate your [strictly academic] points.

Achila wrote:

But I have to say that overall, this was a bit stupid -- it implied that Elijah himself has had no hand in guiding his own destiny, and that he hasn't prospered because he's been turned down for "big roles". This is not strictly true. We know for a fact that there were roles in "blockbusters" that he was offered, that he turned down, and has said repeatedly that he wanted to do smaller films.
Achila, I had not stopped to consider the sources of the writer's statements, just assuming he had checked them for reliability (never a wise thing when approaching popular journalism :cool: ). Barry Norman had said in BunnieBugs' clipping,

He has already lost several tasty roles, he says, because he looks too young. 'But hopefully that will change as I get older,' he says philosophically, meanwhile perhaps staring into the mirror and, unlike the rest of us, urging wrinkles to appear.
You are right. This article was not set up as an interview, actually, so who knows where Norman got that statement of Wood's? It could be false. Wood may not have lost out on any roles on account of looking too young, after all. I had heard in here (The Faculty), that EW had been turned down for some roles in "big" films -- though I don't remember which they were supposed to have been. I admit, I took it for granted that was so -- you all are such good reporters. But I confess I also took other remarks for granted, that EW had not been cast in some other roles (again, I can't remember any specific roles being mentioned), because he looked so young for his age.

I am not sure that Norman meant to imply in this article that EW had not made any choices regarding his career, only that EW's very youthful appearance was working against him, for the moment. But, only "for the moment." My impression was, over all, that Norman was extremely impressed with Wood's work, and was only surprised that EW hadn't been begged to do more work than he has -- especially as the LotR cast member who, "had not only carried the Ring but the entire story." His article seemed merely to consider why that might be. He dismissed EW being too short as a reason, focussing instead on him being too young (in looks). I did not get the impression that the writer was slighting EW in any way. I suppose that's why I enjoyed the article so much. ;)

-- Mechtild

Mech, you're right -- I shouldn't have looked a gift horse in the mouth -- overall, it was a good article and quite complimentary to our lad. It IS true, however, that he did lose some roles because of his youthful looks -- he did say as much at one point, and I should have clarified that. But I think there's a bit of confusion in some people's minds about what constitutes "stardom". Barry Norman mentions Orlando, and that gives us a bit of a jumping off point. Orli was basically an untested quantity, even after the LOTR films. All producers knew was that girls squeed over him -- he surely hadn't proved himself as an actor. There are some who would argue that he still hasn't, and that's a discussion for a different thread. :)

But I truthfully think that Elijah's approach to all this is very smart. He's being choosy with the projects he wants to be involved in and is consciously trying to move away from empty blockbuster roles that may give him a lot of attention but little creative satisfaction. That was what I was trying to say -- obviously not very well -- in my previous post. A lot of this has been BY CHOICE, not just providence.

I now have a rationale to use, if asked why I’m going to see Hooligans tomorrow: I’m doing research for a scholarly paper on “The Variety of Local Accents and Argot Among Violent Followers of London Football Clubs, and the Impact of Immersion in This Subculture on the Speech Patterns of Sensitive, Gorgeous, Blue-eyed Dropouts from Prestigious American Universities.” (Perhaps I should leave out the "Gorgeous, Blue-eyed" part of the title, for more convincing camouflage.)
Dear Dr. Pelagia,

Your preliminary proposal for scholarly paper has been APPROVED. Please proceed as outlined. Regarding your title, the committee recommends the following amendment (bracketed): "...Sensitive, Gorgeous, Blue-eyed Dropouts (through no fault of their own!) from Prestigious American Universities.” The committee is always eager to display proof of the Lad's inate cleverness, but this amendment may not stand up upon actual viewing, as the committee admits it really knows nothing at all about the content of this movie. So there you go.


I wrote this before Achila's reply, but I think it still holds up: :)

Achila, lovely write-up. It seems true that Elijah was steering his career in a direction of his choosing, and it's important to remember that. The logic flaw I noticed is that the reviewer talks about the difficulty of roles for young-looking actors. Well, Orlando is exactly in this age range, but he gets roles due to the "babe attractor hunk" clause. In other words, if you're pretty and the flavor of the month, you will get big movies. But I think Elijah's method is wiser because, while attractive, he's not a "hunk," and proving his versatility is likely to lead to a much longer, healthier career over time. *crosses fingers*

But it was still a complimentary review, and something that I think the majority of casual LOTR viewers are wondering: "Hey! Where did Elijah go?" :D As far as the unnamed "sources" that Mechtild mentions, Elijah has said in one interview (that I can't remember), when asked about how he must be inundated with scripts, he said, "Not as many as I would like," or something to that effect. So this might be the puzzling occurrence that the reviewer is thinking of, and it might be due to Wood's age or his look or whatever. But I think Elijah has been smart in his choices, so he'll do well over time. :)

But I truthfully think that Elijah's approach to all this is very smart. He's being choosy with the projects he wants to be involved in and is consciously trying to move away from empty blockbuster roles that may give him a lot of attention but little creative satisfaction. That was what I was trying to say -- obviously not very well -- in my previous post. A lot of this has been BY CHOICE, not just providence.

I totally agree with you, Achila.

I don't know if Elijah has been offered any Blockbuster type roles since LOTR, but if he has, I could well imagine him turning them down. I think he's just following his heart - taking roles that interest him as an actor, or, as with his smaller roles in ESOTSM and Sin CIty, for the experience of working with actors and directors he admires and respects, or simply for the fact that he think a project is 'cool!' :eek: :)

As for his youthful looks - he was lined up for the lead role in a film called 'Thumbsucker,' wasn't he? As I remember the project was delayed, and when they eventually came to cast the film, Elijah was ruled out because he was too old!

Thanks for posting the Radio Times article, Bunnie. Barry Norman is a well-respected film critic here in the UK. He presented the film review programme on the BBC for many years. I also thought his article was complimentary to Elijah.

...but the next step - the stride that should take him into the A list - is the big one, and for that he may have to wait.

I wonder if Elijah wants to be in the A list!

I think Elijah's method is wiser because, while attractive, he's not a "hunk," and proving his versatility is likely to lead to a much longer, healthier career over time. *crosses fingers*

I do hope so, Mariole. :)

...when asked about how he must be inundated with scripts, he said, "Not as many as I would like," or something to that effect.

Elijah has three films out this year, and Happy Feet is in production, but there's been no news of any future roles he might be considering. He has said he's quite 'picky,' but it looks as though we'll be having quite a lean year Elijah-wise in 2006!

On the subject of swearing:
To me, the problem with over-usage of swear words is that they completely lose their impact. What do people say when they really have reason to swear?

My thoughts exactly, Shireling. (waves) :)

HI ALL!!!! :k :k

"waves Blossom"

I have thought the same blossom!!!
i hope the lack of news is good silence!!!
i mean that he is taking some time to rest
or hopefully reading a good script!!! :z: :z:

and i wonder too if elijah realy wants to be a A-list actor!!!!!

to me his youthful face is very beautiful i can only imagine
what he will look like in his thirtys!!! :p :cool:

"waves to the rest of the faculty"


LOVE YOU ALL/WOOD

Mech, you're right -- I shouldn't have looked a gift horse in the mouth -- overall, it was a good article and quite complimentary to our lad. It IS true, however, that he did lose some roles because of his youthful looks -- he did say as much at one point (...).
As for his youthful looks - he was lined up for the lead role in a film called 'Thumbsucker,' wasn't he? As I remember the project was delayed, and when they eventually came to cast the film, Elijah was ruled out because he was too old!

How now? Too young, too old??! :confused: :D
In an interview with the Mirror, UK (sorry, couldn't find the date) Elijah said on his youthful looks:
"It's ridiculous," he laughs. "I get asked for ID tons of times, especially when I'm buying alcohol or going to clubs. What's worse, I've been asked for an ID when buying cigarettes."

But he admits that looking young for his age is not all bad.

"Looking young can be pretty helpful, because I get away with murder sometimes," he grins, mischievously.

"But I'm hoping to change that perception of me a little, I guess, because although it'll be great having a baby face when I'm older it isn't so good now, when I want to play roles that are my age.

"I've certainly lost the chance to do some parts because I looked too young for them. But hopefully that will change as I get older."

Achila, lovely write-up. It seems true that Elijah was steering his career in a direction of his choosing, and it's important to remember that. The logic flaw I noticed is that the reviewer talks about the difficulty of roles for young-looking actors. Well, Orlando is exactly in this age range, but he gets roles due to the "babe attractor hunk" clause. In other words, if you're pretty and the flavor of the month, you will get big movies. But I think Elijah's method is wiser because, while attractive, he's not a "hunk," and proving his versatility is likely to lead to a much longer, healthier career over time. *crosses fingers*

Yes, but there are signs that the time of the hunk might draw to a close (maybe?). In GEAR MAGAZINE (December 2002) I found following:
How is it that this boyish young man is today's action hero? In the '80s, we watched Rambo shoulder-rocket helicopters out of the sky. In the late'90s, the archetype was a taut Tom Cruise bodysurfing on doomed, exploding helicopters in Mission: Impossible. But with a war with Iraq looming and the perpetual threat of terrorism lurking in the background, our heroes are... geeks. If we're not watching Wood in The Lord of the Rings, it's the wizard-in-training Harry Potter or not-so-hunky Tobey Maguire in Spiderman.(...)
Hey, tales of celebrity cratering abound in these True Hollywood Stories-days and Wood recognizes that his next moves, in both private life and his career, will really matter. A wrong choice now could mean the difference between following in the path of Mark Hamill rather than Harrison Ford.

Big Hollywood blockbusters can kill a career. But Wood has already mapped his route to safety. "Immediately, I want to do something smaller," he says. "Not so epic. Something different to keep stretching what I do."

I ask Robert Rodriguez, who's been talking with Wood about another role in one of his films, how difficult he believes it will be for Wood to segue from male ing?nue roles to more adult roles. "if he gets the right material, Elijah can easily get people to see him differently," says Rodriguez. "He's an internal actor, very strong, and I'd love to see him in a dark role. Maybe as a villain."

IMHO Elijah has made very clever choices, movie-wise. And I'm very curious about the (hopefully also villain) parts we're going to see in his thirties. :)

*waves to all the Faculty*

"waves back whiteling"

thanks for that interwiew!!!!! :k

intresting to here what rodrigues thinks about his villain!!!!!

hmmmm intresting thought, i bet he vill be big when he is in
his thirtys not to big thou, i mean i realy don`t whant him to loose
his personality the one we all think is so specell!!!

LOVE YOU ALL/WOOD

Thanks for that article from me too, Bunnie. I think Mr. Norman sounds genuinely impressed with Elijah, and is only wondering like any good Faculty member ;) where he'll go next! I was thinking, that for all the censorius letters we've sent to film critics who slighted him, we ought to send Mr. Norman some thank you notes! Just incase anyone is so inclined, here is the e-mail addy for radio.times@bbc.co.uk (http://), home of the discerning and opinionated Barry Norman.

Pelagia and Achilla, you haven't been to Hooligans yet! I thought it was yesterday! I can't wait to hear what you have to say about it!

I've had so much fun with Alyon these past few days. I must say that North is an odd little movie. And of course I already knew that there is really only one reason to watch Flipper. :p

Must go and keep busy until we hear from our brave reporters in the field.

honey!

PS Someday Mr. Wood will be widely recognized as a very fine actor, and we won't have to go to films with notebooks in our hands! Until that day De Libertas Quirkas!

edtitted because I can't type.

Last night I started to write a comment on the article Bunnie posted but was called to dinner very insistantly--and because I'm grateful to the cook (dear husband) I wasn't about to offend him by delaying. When I come back here this morning I see that you all have covered so many of the same thoughts that I had--and so well. I probably needn't say another thing, but I'll add a little because I really think Elijah, as a working actor and as a person who wants his life to go in the direction he wants, is making smart choices with what is available to him.

I'll jsut copy and paste a little bit of what I was writing to add my bit.

Honey and I spent some time (duh) talking about Elijah's career. I have heard a little bit of insider talk on this kind of thing because my teenager has a little bit of a film career going (she just got cast in another movie--something I'd be happy to share via PM--but don't want to post publically). Her manager has told us that it is much better to build a career as marathoner, and not as a sprinter. It seems to me that most people in the public look at an actor's success relating to who makes the most money or is the most popular. They see the "celebrity" factor. Oh, I have loads to say on this--I dont' even know if I can squeeze it out. But like in high school--those celebrities are the cheerleaders and the football players...not everyone even wants to be that. And if you think about it hard enough....is being a celebrity even attractive?? To some people, it is NOT!!

I know this is straying from some of the very insightful things the author was talking about. It seems that there are lots of scripts written for the celebrity--often very stereotyped roles. Elijah is not so likely to fit into those, or even WANT those. He probably has to do a lot of searching...but in doing so, he is building his own story. He is working on the marathon. It's not all out there--even if he physically fit the hunky stereotype hero look--he might not like those roles. There probably isn't a lot available in terms of parts he wants to fit into. For example, I know, that for teenage girls, there aren't a ton of scripts--and when there are they might be the celebrity type roles. But those aren't even appealing if those kind of movies aren't your taste in the first place-- even though the general public might think they are the mark of success. (oh--and they are usually played by people in their 20s, as well :rolleyes: ).

He is likely smartly building his career along the lines of finding smart scripts --and then hoping to win the role--because there are still other good actors of his type (well, someone who might match the role in their own way) who will also be hoping to win the role. Even for people who are good and proven...there is someone else also hoping to get that role. Elijah is playing the game for the long haul. Waiting for the right script to fit his tastes, his look..they likely don't come around everyday.

I am so happy to cling to my Elijah-liking for this reason, as well as just liking him. It is so good to see someone who has a career and is not trying to build it on the sprint--not looking to be the celebrity. He may be a celebrity, but it isn't the goal and it isn't the game. The game is in living a life one wants and in finding work that takes you in the direction you want to go.

The other thing is that I've read that there aren't as many mid-level movies being made these days. Most are either big budget movies, or independents. I think he is so wise to be going for the smaller movie, accepting a smaller salary, but maybe finding parts he can play, and building...piece by piece his collection of characters.

Hope so anyway. I count on him!!!

Oh, yeah. I've talked to some veteran actors who work alot, and they also have said that to build a long career, you are sometimes so much better off with the character roles--and not trying to leap into the leading man roles. Sometimes those guys burn out in a matter of a few years. You want a career with longevity..you build with it.

Mariole:
Alyon, I am one of those who I think, I'm not sure, but possibly I might be becoming offended by your posting the same picture yet again. Why don't you try a repeat, to see if I really am?

And, Mariole, Just because I can--go ahead and suffer this!!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v514/alyonir/fellowshipfromspecialfeatures.bmp


I'm so looking forward to the Hooligan reports. I'm wondering if it will show at the Seattle film festival. It's the biggest film festival in the country--so it's possible!! I believe the schedule is posted next week.

Most of what I would have said about Elijah’s career path has already been said, very well, by other people here. I especially liked Alyon’s comment:
Her [Alyon’s daughter’s] manager has told us that it is much better to build a career as marathoner, and not as a sprinter. It seems to me that most people in the public look at an actor's success relating to who makes the most money or is the most popular.
That goes right along with an earlier comment, by Achila, that:
I think there's a bit of confusion in some people's minds about what constitutes "stardom".
That’s why I don’t worry about whether or not writers consider Elijah an “A-list” actor, because I think that designation has much more to do with box office than with talent.

BTW, I found this on TORN, in a review of Ringers: Lord of the Fans:
And then there was the brilliantly hilarious blurb of a rabid fangirl yelling complete nonsense at Elijah during an outdoor event of some kind, with Elijah just nodding and smiling in his incredibly patient way.
Mariole: Thanks for sending the "official" approval of the research topic. (Actually, I think he gets expelled, rather than dropping out; but we’ll learn the truth tomorrow.)

I think reviewers like Norman Barry are probably justified in saying EW "looks too young" for some roles he would like, not because he literally looks too young to get a job, but too young to get the jobs he wants. Although he mentioned Orlando Bloom's career taking off, I don't think Barry (or similar critics) would describe them as comparable in many ways, except in being only four years different in age. There are scads of male actors on the fronts of teenage girl's celebrity magazines, who are very young and who, in fact, may be "too old" to get jobs in a couple of years. But I think articles like the above are written from the assumption that an Elijah Wood is not destined for "Teenage Hunk" roles, simply because he isn't that sort of actor. If I am reading Barry right, he is saying that Wood must wait for good parts until he looks older because he thinks Wood can and will play precisely that -- good parts.

When he talks hopefully about Wood getting into the "A list" (and I am not quite sure what A list stuff is :D ), I don't want to dismiss that as merely saying he hopes Wood can be extra-famous and make big bucks. I am guessing he is hoping, by "A list", that Wood has a chance to have a career as a respected "real" actor (not teen heart throb) -- but who also has "celebrity" or "box office" appeal.

Russell Crowe is "a celebrity" and has "box office" appeal, but he is a "real" actor, and is respected as one. These two things together mean he gets offered far more scripts than he might have done, had he not had any "box office appeal" but was a "real" actor only. I, too, would like to see EW have a serious, respected career, but one with enough "box office appeal" so that he will be offered the best scripts out there.

~ Mechtild

Mechtild:
I, too, would like to see EW have a serious, respected career, but one with enough "box office appeal" so that he will be offered the best scripts out there.

Yeah, that sounds good to me :D :k
And I agree the article was not at all a criticism, but mainly a compliment. It just gave us all the opportunity to chew a little more on the topic of dear Elijah and just how wonderful he is :cool: :rolleyes:

As to Orlando Bloom--I'll just bet that not many of the actors from Lotrs (except Sean Astin ;) ) really think to compare themselves to him in terms of career. Sean Bean, Viggo, both Ians....none of them have had the superstar roles offered to them since Lotrs (or before). But I'll bet none of them suffer an ego problem because of it. They know the facets of the business. They know that as fine as Orlando is, that he isn't getting the offers he is because he is a better actor than any of them. And I'm sure Orlando knows it, too. It's part of the game and the market. And people have to work with what it is they have. And those are the realities--stupid as they might be--no matter how good you are. For example women over a certain age who are still very very fine actors, have a hard time getting work. NOt fair. So I imagine it feels very good for actors who don't fit into the most mainstream parts, to know that what they do is respected by other actors and that there are parts in respectable movies they might get that are not huge movies. Movies have such a long live now (since the advent of videos and dvds). Even small movies can live forever. But yeah--I agree with you that you ...it would be nice for Elijah to continue to have enough success so that good roles are always open to him.

That paragraph rambled here and there. sorry. :o

So why did that picture I last posted turn out so small????? I think the one I saved was larger. I guess I'm still an apprentice at photo posting. :confused:

Alyon, you say things so clearly:

But yeah--I agree with you that you ...it would be nice for Elijah to continue to have enough success so that good roles are always open to him.

That's what I spent two paragraphs dragging out. Yeah!

I must say, Pelagia and Achila, I am so excited that you are going. And, like honeyelf, I thought you had already gone and have been opening up the thread each time in a dither, now that I am back from work, expecting to see your reports. *sigh* More waiting is in order.

~ Mechtild

P.S. Alyon, you are right about Bloom, I am guessing. He knows why he is getting jobs he is getting, and I am sure he is extremely grateful to get them. And the money. (He has such expensive hobbies -- now he can bungee-jump from his own private plane!) He probably is thankful he's got the star status while it lasts, since it is so clearly tied to his swoon-quotient, which could take a nose-dive at any time. I hope not. He's not my sort, but he seemed extremely likable in the LotR Extra materials.

The current discussion, and Bunnie's scanned article, come at a very good time. For some reason--the lack of U.S. distribution for Hooligans, the lack of new projects in the pipeline--I've been anxiously wondering if 'that's all there is' with regard to Elijah's career. :rolleyes: Guess I don't have enough other things to worry about ;)

So I've been considering the number and range of roles available for 20-something male actors. It's pretty slim pickings. Romantic comedies, goofball buddy films, violent sci-fi/disaster/thriller films with lots of chase/crash scenes, cliched stuff all--and then, the very rare great character role. Match the few good roles to the number of young male actors all looking for something different, something that will be a stretch and be interesting--and you begin to realize how intense the competition must be for those few good roles. A few slightly older actors seem to get good roles quite easily; Leo DiCaprio in particular--and talk about a baby face! :eek: IMHO he isn't aging especially well but I'm not a Leo fan (obviously! :p ).

It would be easier and much more instantly-gratifying to be a fan of Ben Stiller or Owen Wilson, who seem to be everywhere :rolleyes: but we fans of a "Quality Little Fellow" :p must be patient, and hope that our :z: will be answered. :)

So I've been considering the number and range of roles available for 20-something male actors. It's pretty slim pickings. Romantic comedies, goofball buddy films, violent sci-fi/disaster/thriller films with lots of chase/crash scenes, cliched stuff all--and then, the very rare great character role.

That's absolutely true, Goldie, and if you're the sort like Elijah, who isn't willing to compromise his artistic integrity, you may have a long wait between projects. Add to that the fact that he's "unique" looking, and you can understand the sort of problem this is. As a really fine child actor, he didn't have anywhere near the competition he does now.


Match the few good roles to the number of young male actors all looking for something different, something that will be a stretch and be interesting--and you begin to realize how intense the competition must be for those few good roles. A few slightly older actors seem to get good roles quite easily; Leo DiCaprio in particular--and talk about a baby face! :eek: IMHO he isn't aging especially well but I'm not a Leo fan (obviously! :p ). Nor am I, and to tell the truth, I wasn't especially impressed with "The Aviator". But Leo has had his share of stinkeroos too, even if he is under Martin Scorsese's wing these days.

It would be easier and much more instantly-gratifying to be a fan of Ben Stiller or Owen Wilson, who seem to be everywhere :rolleyes: but we fans of a "Quality Little Fellow" :p must be patient, and hope that our :z: will be answered. :) :eek: But our :z: WILL be answered, in August, with EII. That could be the key to any number of new and different roles. And Elijah, smart boy that he is, also has other aspirations to fall back on should they not start tumbling in.

Achila:
And Elijah, smart boy that he is, also has other aspirations to fall back on should they not start tumbling in.

And I too think that that is SO smart. I would assume actors don't like being stuck HAVING to act when they don't want to. A friend told me she read Kiera Knightly said she wishes she had finished her education, that she doesn't really like being a celebrity, but now she doesn't know anything else to do. (I don't assume that she doesn't like her profession, but I'll bet actors can also feel the same stress as the regular public about their options in life).

Hooligans reports!!! Waiting!!!!

A few slightly older actors seem to get good roles quite easily; Leo DiCaprio in particular--and talk about a baby face! :eek:
I might be wrong, but it seems to me that Leo had something to do with The Aviator getting produced. Edward Norton has already bought the film rights to Motherless Brooklyn so he can play the lead--which would have been an incredibly great role for Elijah judging from the book. We know Elijah has the ability to get behind a project the way he did for Hooligans. A big part of me hopes he gets some projects of his own going before too long--not only so we'd get to see him act more, but also because I think he would choose projects that would be worth making and seeing.

-----------

In some defense of Orlando, I thought his acting was superb in LotR. Kind of similar to Elijah's "problem," I think he's so natural as Legolas that he almost doesn't seem to be acting--until you find out how different he is from the character!

tg, I totally agree with you here.

In some defense of Orlando, I thought his acting was superb in LotR. Kind of similar to Elijah's "problem," I think he's so natural as Legolas that he almost doesn't seem to be acting--until you find out how different he is from the character!
And he had a lot of very difficult lines (the sort people loved to make fun of over at TORc), but he always did them completely and fully, "for real." As for how different a character he made Legolas from himself, when a friend of ours watched the EE's with us and then we showed her the DVD extras, she refused to believe that Orlando Bloom was the person she had just seen as Legolas the Elf.

I was thinking of Leonardo di Caprio only this afternoon. The first thing I saw him in was, "What's Eating Gilbert Grape." Who is THAT, I asked!!! Never mind Johnny Depp and Juliet Lewis. I thought he was fantastic in it. I could hardly believe it when he later was cast in "heart throb" roles. I didn't think that would last though, because, as someone pointed out, he hasn't aged well, in the sense of retaining his youthful good looks. His young face was very, very soft, without out much bone structure to support it. And I thought he might get to look like Sydney Greenstreet if he let himself get stout. :cool: But for being taken seriously as an actor again, for him to "lose his looks" will be a good thing, I think.

~ Mechtild

Good Morning, Faculty!

While we wait for Achila and Pelagia to return with their scholarly paper, I thought I'd post this little excerpt from the latest Jack Aubrey/Stephen Maturin book I've read. It's from #7, The Surgeon's Mate. Jack and Stephen are just about to set out on a mission to the Baltic and a Swedish officer joins them. His name is Jagiello, and although the hair color is wrong, his description brought to mind a certain actor...

Jack walked into the snug, seized a piece of bread and ate it. A few moments later Stephen came in, followed by the sweet young gentleman, a slim officer in a mauve coat with silver lace; he had surprisingly golden hair, bright blue eyes, large and set wide-apart, and a complexion that any girl might have envied. His air was modest, but by no means unmanly.

Apparently, Jagiello is attractive to women, which Jack and Stephen cannot fathom. In one instance, Jagiello has been ashore, and three women follow him back to the ship. Jack comments to Stephen

But what I cannot for the life of me understand is what they see in him. He is a good fellow, to be sure, but he is only a boy; I doubt he shaves once a week, if that.

:lol:

I've read after the success of Master and Commander: The Far Side of the World, another movie might be made. If this story line was included, I wonder who could play Jagiello? Hmmm...


These books really are wonderful. I still don't understand all the naval lingo, or the different sails, but the story of Jack and Stephen is great, with some history, geography, and social commentary thrown in. Like Jane Austen on steroids.

C4

Achila, I was going to quote you in this post, but then I realized I would be quoting virtually everything you said except for your quotes of my post, so: Ditto to everything you wrote! :D I have high hopes for EII, and it isn't all that long to wait. :)

tgshaw, you brought up an important point when you mentioned Ed Norton buying the film rights to Motherless Brooklyn. That's the only way an actor can be assured of getting a role he/she wants, and it's why so many actors form their own production companies. Unless an actor has a director/producer who takes a strong interest in them--Martin Scorsese with Leo DC, for example, or Tim Burton and Johnny Depp--they are all vulnerable to the whims of casting agents and bigger film companies. Elijah clearly has Peter Jackson and Robert Rodriguez on his side, and I would love it if either of them brought a future project his way.

Ceefour, so you are another LOTR fan who loves the Aubrey/Maturin novels. My good friends Juliebeth and Cionaudha have fallen for Dr. Maturin's charms. So far I have resisted getting caught up in that world because I have neither the time nor energy for another fandom at the moment. The description "Jane Austen on steroids" is awfully tempting though! :cool: :p

...but the next step - the stride that should take him into the A list - is the big one, and for that he may have to wait.
I wonder if Elijah wants to be in the A list!

Well, I dunno...

Paris Hilton is on the A list, right? And doesn't Joan Rivers have something to do with who's recognized as on that list?

I don't care if The One Lad is on the B, C, D, or X list, as long as he doesn't make B movies.

~grumpy

Speaking of movies, Hooligans was over 5 minutes ago at 2:48 PM DST. Where's the report?

C-waiting patiently-4

Speaking of movies, Hooligans was over 5 minutes ago at 2:48 PM DST. Where's the report?

:lol:

Hee! *taps foot* *checks clock* *twiddles thumbs*

staring at the computerscreen !!!!

looking for a report to pop up!!!

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:



LOVE YOU ALL/WOOD

OK ladies we want the report now! :cool:

I think I now know what my summer reading will be. I've wanted to read the Aubrey- Maturin novels and now that I know there's an Elijah-like character I must get them. Is the character, Jagiello, the same young boy that was in M&C but now grown older? Or is he another character altogether?


As for Elijah's future roles, perhaps he is just taking his time this year taking care of his life at home in LA, getting his own house, starting up his music business, etc. He said recently that he's gotten lots of good scripts offered to him for parts he actually wants to play. Maybe he can afford to pick and choose parts and take his time after working almost non-stop for the last six years or so. Soon he'll have promotion to do for EiI and if Hooligans gets distribution he'll gave to go out and do press for that, too.

Also, waiting awhile to take on another role is allowing him to get a bit older and mature-looking so he can play older parts.

I'm sure both PJ and Robert Rodrigues will gladly work with him again and again. And other directors must want to work with him, too. He's really just starting out in adult roles and will have lots of opportunities to work in good films.

it`s late do i have to wait untill the morning for the reports!!!????


just kidding ,,,sleep well all my faculty friends!!!! :lol: :lol:

see you tomorow!!!!!!! :k :k


LOVE YOU ALL/WOOD

As for Elijah's future roles, perhaps he is just taking his time this year taking care of his life at home in LA, getting his own house, starting up his music business, etc. He said recently that he's gotten lots of good scripts offered to him for parts he actually wants to play. Maybe he can afford to pick and choose parts and take his time after working almost non-stop for the last six years or so.


I know nothing of this.....tell us more , please.


cheers!

saile

it`s late do i have to wait untill the morning for the reports!!!????


:::: clicking Refresh ::::
:::: clicking Refresh ::::
:::: clicking Refresh ::::
:::: clicking Refresh ::::
:::: hopefully sending Whiteling a page of dots and squiggles ::::
:::: clicking Refresh ::::
:::: clicking Refresh ::::

I'm sure they're closeted somewhere, jointly composing a detailed analysis of every muscle twitch and sternomastwazzever shot in the movie.

:::: clicking Refresh ::::
:::: clicking Refresh ::::
:::: clicking Refresh ::::

sigh...

~grumpy

Ceefour, so you are another LOTR fan who loves the Aubrey/Maturin novels. My good friends Juliebeth and Cionaudha have fallen for Dr. Maturin's charms. So far I have resisted getting caught up in that world because I have neither the time nor energy for another fandom at the moment. The description "Jane Austen on steroids" is awfully tempting though! :cool: :p

Me too! I read all 20 in order by getting them from the library. I think I finished the series about two years ago. I'm just about ready to start over at the beginning :) I really liked Master and Commander (the movie).

Hi Faculty!

Abject apologies to all and sundry...Elijah kept us late after class and well...you know how that is....

Actually, it took us 3+ hrs to get home from NYC and we were starving, so we stopped off to have dinner -- it's now 11:40 PM and we're half-baked (oh, that sounds soo goood...oops -- sorry -- wrong film), so you're going to have to wait just a little bit longer for our full report, I'm afraid. We promise to fill you in on everything tomorrow.

But here's a few tidbits to tide you over until then --

-- he was utterly, completely, totally, overwhelmingly exquisite (and that's not squeeing -- he was)

-- the violence in the film was not overly glorified or dwelt upon (plus, very little blood spatter)

-- the language wasn't that awful

-- therefore, it was very very good

BUT

-- this film is going to have an uphill battle getting American distribution, based on what we were able to perceive both from the film and from what Lexi said (and not just because of the violence and language).

So that's all for now -- your exhausted field reporters Achila and Pelagia signing off.

:k

PS -- He was not there, unfortunately!

PS -- He was not there, unfortunately!

Rats! And I here I was hopin' you'd got into the party, and he was d-jaying! :( ;)

-- this film is going to have an uphill battle getting American distribution, based on what we were able to perceive both from the film and from what Lexi said (and not just because of the violence and language). :( :( :confused: :( Can't wait to hear more about this!

honey!

n o reports yet???? :( :(

sorry ladies,just kidding!!!! :cool:

take the day of ,sleep good!!!

and come back with full report from the evening!!! :p :D :cool: :k


sorry to hear he wasen`t ther in person!!!


LOVE YOU ALL/WOOD

OK, here is our full report on Hooligans. If anybody has any questions about other aspects of the film, we'll try to answer them. There might be some mild spoilers ahead, so proceed with caution. We don't really think we're giving away any major plot points.

Lij's acting

When the movie started, both of us worried that this was going to turn out to be another sad/angsty/passive role: Frodo gets expelled from Harvard, or Jones Dillon goes back to college and screws up. Matt was REacting, rather than acting. But the character develops as the film goes on, and turns into something much "harder" and more assertive. And his appearance changes with it. There's a moment, just before he launches himself into his first "firm" fight, when he does that jaw-setting thing (Frodo-on-the-beach wades into the fray instead of into the river??). And his voice changes in the course of the film as well. At the beginning, he's so beaten down (figuratively) that he's nearly whiny. But as he gains confidence, his voice actually deepens -- more so than in anything else he's done.

His appearance changes, too. We're still trying to analyze how this is done. Achila thinks they "gelled" his hair, to make him look tougher. But it's also just what he does with his face. He loses the hurt-little-puppy look; and while he certainly doesn't look like a brawler (how could he??), he does become something much sleeker and more dangerous. Pelagia thinks he looks especially dangerous and yummy -- or, as Achila says, "utterly hot" -- in the navy blue windbreaker he wears in these scenes. There's also a blue scoopneck T-shirt that Achila likes (pictorial evidence provided upon request).

There is some great eyebrow acting here, particularly when Matt is wronged. And in an early scene where he tries to call his father, and reaches only voicemail, his reactions are conveyed almost entirely by the eyebrows (and the eyes, of course) -- quite remarkable! Nobody else could do this (not that we're prejudiced).

We didn't notice any particular accent, or change in his accent. As for the voiceovers, they represent him reading from his journal (as the Faculty suspected).

Note that this movie is blessed with MANY closeups of the principal character. There are countless opportunities to study the eyes, the lashes, the mouth, the profile, the jaw, the fuzzy chin, and the sterno-thing that Achila can say but Pelagia (who is typing) can't spell. His face is visibly more mature than as Frodo or even as Jones. Based on this movie, we are more convinced than ever that he should return to his natural hair color! Note also that we were VERY good, and did not squee at all in the theater. (Achila says that she thinks she sighed only once, at least externally.) However, during the VERY LONG trip home, we more than made up for this massive achievement of self-control.

Language

As we mentioned last night, the language was not as much of an issue as we expected. Admittedly, the very first word spoken is "F***" and the opening scene is pretty much littered with expletives. But after that, the four-letter words just fade into the background -- you become less aware of it, because it's just part of how these people talk to each other. It loses its force. The ugliest expression (s***-c***) was used once (and WAS particularly ugly, because it was applied to a woman). Matt's own language is relatively restrained (certainly by comparison with that of Mr. Wood in person!). This is in keeping with Matt's character, since he's sort of mousy at the beginning. Achila says that the language was not as rough as in Sexy Beast or most Guy Ritchie movies, if you're looking for a standard for comparison.

Violence

Except for the very last fight, the violence wasn't so violent as we had expected. For one thing, it's "gritty but artistic" (Achila's phrase). There is a lot of quick cutting, slo-mo, and a kind of strobe effect (which can sometimes be annoying), all of which help to defuse the impact considerably. No particular character's pain is drawn out or treated exploitatively. Of course, every time anyone clobbered our boy, we did cringe; and it did seem that we had more closeups of him being hit than of anyone else. But then, the story is being shown through his eyes (and he IS the star). At the same time, while the fight scenes are "artistic," they aren't "prettified." These guys aren't martial-arts experts. They're just bashing each other; there's no finesse to it. (That's the "gritty" part.)

Other actors in the film (yes, there are a few)

Charlie Hunnam is very good, though Achila feels that his cockney accent slips occasionally. Leo Gregory is also very effective. As several Faculty members have suspected, Elijah's role is much less showy (and more subtle) than either of these characters, though he does get to cut loose several times. Claire Forlani does a decent job (though Pelagia thought she was a bit overly histrionic at points). The accents were sometimes hard for our American ears to grapple with (even though both of us are big Anglophiles, and thus accustomed to dealing with a variety of British accents). But this could have just been the sound system.

Lexi

She was there, and did a Q&A after the movie. (She also specifically mentioned Elijah's performance, during her introduction to the movie.) In the Q&A, she talked about having "scammed" West Ham into letting her film at the stadium (as the Faculty has discussed). She said that independent film makers have to do this sort of thing, to gain access to places like this (since they can't afford to hand out large amounts of cash). She said she told them, "It's very anti-violence. It has Elijah Wood -- Frodo from Lord of the Rings," which drew laughter from us, of course, but also from most of the audience.

When asked about the prospects for US distribution, Lexi said, "American distributors have a problem with it -- not the audiences." (Remember, she's talking about festival audiences.) And both of us can see why it's unlikely to be picked up here in the US. It's not really the violence or the language, or even the fact that it centers around "football." It's more that the culture or subculture depicted is so completely foreign to this country. The American audience for this film would be very limited. (It might do well on an "art-house" circuit.) The Tribeca audience was appreciative -- and quite diverse (men and women, mix of ages). Three people did walk out early in the movie (wimps!).

We're certainly glad we went, and we wish we could see it again today (minus the tribulations of travel -- the homebound train broke down between NYC and Newark, NJ it took us over an hour to travel the 5 miles or so between these cities -- it's a long story). If any of you are lucky enough to find Hooligans playing near you, by all means -- go. (BTW, it also has some very funny bits.)

One last funny thing: the theater is a multiplex in the same building complex as a hotel and a shopping precinct. When the doors opened, we had to ascend a series of escalators to reach the theater level. We were so intent on what (whom!) we were about to see that at one point, we somehow took a wrong turn and found ourselves in a shoe store. And it took us nearly a full minute to realize it! Talk about being distracted. . . .

PS -- A shoutout to the great people we met and spent the day with -- thanks for sharing it with us!

THANK YOU ,THANK YOU!!!!! :k :k
It sounds like this is a movie i am realy going to see more then once!!

many close ups!!! :D :cool:

i must say i wich for more info about his acting maybe you coulde pm me
so you don`t have to think about spoiling anything for the others who don`t want to know more!!if there are any!! :lol:

i have tried pm you but it diden`t work think yur mail box was full!!

LOVE YOU ALL/WOOD

Yay!

Super-tough hairgelled Lij! Am so pleased you both liked it and that there is plenty of the Lad Himself. Close-ups! EW cutting loose a few times! Lots of pics of him being hit (I don't know what sadistic part of me is pleased to read this, but oh he does fall so well! :eek: ).

The qs. that follow are going to be very squee-ey, sorry in advance.

- ok, the scoopneck t-shirt - please?

- does EW's character get to get it on with any girlies?

- does he take part in the funny bits? that would be the icing on the cake!

- how's the soundtrack?

Am rather too excited to post coherently, sorry!

WELL I WAS TRYING TO BEHAVE BUT I´T DOSEN`T WORK THAT GOOD!! :D :p

I TOO WANT TOO KNOW

_was he very hot?

-was he mmmmm

-was he very good or so,so?

-did you hear any reactions from the other in the audiens?

so many questiens!!!
don`t know were to begin, sorry!!!!! :(

LOVE YOU ALL/WOO

As for Elijah's future roles, perhaps he is just taking his time this year taking care of his life at home in LA, getting his own house, starting up his music business, etc. He said recently that he's gotten lots of good scripts offered to him for parts he actually wants to play.

Did he really say that, Hobmom? Where? When? That's great news!

As is the Official Faculty Report on Hooligans. Bless you, Achila and Pelagia. We're all so PROUD of you for not squeeing in public! ;)

Perhaps the U.S. market for this film would be limited...to people of discerning taste in actors. :p

One last funny thing: the theater is a multiplex in the same building complex as a hotel and a shopping precinct. When the doors opened, we had to ascend a series of escalators to reach the theater level. We were so intent on what (whom!) we were about to see that at one point, we somehow took a wrong turn and found ourselves in a shoe store. And it took us nearly a full minute to realize it! Talk about being distracted. . .
Well, did you try any on? ;)

I really want to see this movie.

I'm really unclear on what is meant by:When asked about the prospects for US distribution, Lexi said, "American distributors have a problem with it -- not the audiences." (Remember, she's talking about festival audiences.) And both of us can see why it's unlikely to be picked up here in the US. It's not really the violence or the language, or even the fact that it centers around "football." It's more that the culture or subculture depicted is so completely foreign to this country. The American audience for this film would be very limited. (It might do well on an "art-house" circuit.) The Tribeca audience was appreciative -- and quite diverse (men and women, mix of ages). Three people did walk out early in the movie (wimps!).

There have been many of these sorts of movies, where the audience is introduced to a foreign culture through the main character's eyes; Trainspotting comes to mind, and Lord of the Rings even. In fact if you go to foreign films at all you're used to being plunged into exotic strange cultures with no tour guide, and having to just let everything unfold before you; you know and expect that you'll probably end up putting the last bits of the puzzle together in the car on the way home, or over breakfast the next morning. Matt/Lij is supposed to be our bridge into the hooligans culture. Are you saying he failed to bridge the gap? Was it the directing that failed? I really want to understand.

::taking deep breaths, visuallizing the Aquarius theater in High Street. It will play here, it will, it will::

honey!

ETA: :o :o I forgot to say "thank you" to Achila and Pelagia for your fine reporting! :k :k

Thank you for the wonderful report, Achila and Pelagia. And for braving the jungle of trains and shoestores to bring us the goods!!

In fact if you go to foreign films at all you're used to being plunged into exotic strange cultures with no tour guide, and having to just let everything unfold before you; you know and expect that you'll probably end up putting the last bits of the puzzle together in the car on the way home, or over breakfast the next morning. Matt/Lij is supposed to be our bridge into the hooligans culture.

I'm with Honey on this one--I don't get it. Subcultures and new places and experiences and people living in circumstances different than our own--isn't that a great value of stories and movies?? To show you something different?? As long as it can connect so that you can feel something for the characters--gaining the insight and understanding and learning new things...isn't that a pretty basic component of the movie world??? A good story doesn't have to take place on familiar territory. :confused:

Thanks to Achila and Pelagia! Your dedication is admirable.

Over at TORn, under Movie Discussion, an interview with EW was posted by Alassea Eruvande yesterday, taken from the May 2 issue of Sports Illustrated. Asked about a possible domestic distribution deal for 'Hooligans', EW replies

It's been doing well at festivals, and as a result we could get distribution before the end of the year.

Was the movie theater full? Did you speak with any people in the line waiting to enter the theater about why they were seeing the movie? How about conversations overheard after the film? Did there seem to be the 'buzz' about 'Hooligans' at Tribeca that there was at SXSW? Did Lexi Alexander speak more on why she cast EW? Do I ask too any questions? :haha:

C-Questions! Questions that need answering!-4

ETA-

Sin City: He Had A Voice Like An Angel

http://www.necaonline.com/sincitynews23.html

C4

There have been many of these sorts of movies, where the audience is introduced to a foreign culture through the main character's eyes; Trainspotting comes to mind, and Lord of the Rings even. In fact if you go to foreign films at all you're used to being plunged into exotic strange cultures with no tour guide, and having to just let everything unfold before you; you know and expect that you'll probably end up putting the last bits of the puzzle together in the car on the way home, or over breakfast the next morning. Matt/Lij is supposed to be our bridge into the hooligans culture. Are you saying he failed to bridge the gap? Was it the directing that failed? I really want to understand.However, an art house release is far from the same thing as a multi-plex release. It has a limited built-in audience who will go to see such a film. Hooligans does put it together for you in terms of showing you what this culture looks like from the inside, but that still doesn't mean that the average American movie goer is going to care, and therefore, care enough to translate this into butts in seats. There's much that isn't explained - - that may be a fault of the screenplay -- but because it is a "British film", it doesn't feel like it needs to tell them what this is about -- this' their lives and they know that well.

Is this a uniquely British phenomenon? No. We know (from Lexi and from our own experiences) that hooliganism goes on all over Europe and in South America as well. However, the US has no handle on this type of behavior. We wonder, "Why don't the police do something about this?" -- in fact, this was one of the questions Lexi got, and she demurred, saying that yes they know and they deal with it as best they can, given the limited manpower of the police force.

Elijah's quote -- It's been doing well at festivals, and as a result we could get distribution before the end of the year.

However, he didn't mean that yes, there is a distribution deal and it's moving towards that -- Lexi said there has been no substantive interest so far.

Was the movie theater full? Did you speak with any people in the line waiting to enter the theater about why they were seeing the movie? How about conversations overheard after the film? Did there seem to be the 'buzz' about 'Hooligans' at Tribeca that there was at SXSW? Did Lexi Alexander speak more on why she cast EW? Do I ask too any questions? The theatre was about 3/4 full -- not bad for 1PM on a Thursday afternoon. We were there with other fans so no, we didn't talk to anyone other than Elijah folks. But judging by the looks of them, we figured they were there for other reasons, whatever those might be. We didn't hear any other conversations afterwards. Also, it was entered into the festival late, so it wasn't eligible for the jury prizes (but we voted for it for the audience prize). No, Lexi didn't say anything that we hadn't heard before.

- ok, the scoopneck t-shirt - please?

- does EW's character get to get it on with any girlies?

- does he take part in the funny bits? that would be the icing on the cake!

- how's the soundtrack?

Pics for Random (one of each of our favorite looks, respectively):
Pelagia's "dangerous but yummy" --

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v236/aquila0212/the-yank-behind-hi-res-059.jpg

Achila's:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v236/aquila0212/the-yank-behind-096.jpg

Does he get it on with any girls? No
Is some of his bit funny? Yes
Soundtrack? There was a soundtrack? To tell the truth, we hardly noticed.

PS -- thanks, zk, we loved your post from yesterday -- it gave us a much needed chuckle after the trip home last night! :k

However, an art house release is far from the same thing as a multi-plex release. It has a limited built-in audience who will go to see such a film. Hooligans does put it together for you in terms of showing you what this culture looks like from the inside, but that still doesn't mean that the average American movie goer is going to care, and therefore, care enough to translate this into butts in seats. There's much that isn't explained - - that may be a fault of the screenplay -- but because it is a "British film", it doesn't feel like it needs to tell them what this is about -- this' their lives and they know that well.

Hmmm, I see what you mean. But still, it's got men behaving badly, and that kind of Fight Club grit, without the surrealism. You'd think that would get guys in the seats at least. But, alas, perhaps that's just wishful thinking.

Lurvely pictures, Achila! I, too, am particularly fond of that one in the tee-shirt! ...Particulary....Fond....mmmmmmm

honey!

Goldenberry-
Did he really say that, Hobmom? Where? When? That's great news!

Do you mean about getting good roles and scripts offered to him?

Now I'll have to re-watch all my Lijah interviews! Oh woe! :rolleyes: :D

I know he said almost exactly that and referred to this in various ways in interviews over the past year. He said this when someone asked him if playing Frodo had opened up new possiblities for him as an actor. I
THINK it was in the interview he did in a little online video from NZ. I shall check that and see and I'll post a link to it if that's the right interview.

As for the other things he's been probably doing... He DID buy his very own house in Venice, CA. He has evidently been very involved with his interest in music going to see many bands play, and hanging around with the World Without Sundays guys. And possibly. Maybe...We don't know for sure...seeing the girl from Gogol Bordello(Eugene Hutz's (Alex) band. Could just be close friends but...I guess this is more for discussion in Hugs. But it seems he has been paying attention to what he needs to do in his personal life after that having had to be on the back-burner, so to speak, for so many of his LOTR-filming years.

I'll come back with that interview if I find it.

And Achila and Pelagia---

You girls rock! Much commendation for you admirable Squee-control! :D And thank you for some of the best reviews of Hooligans from fans yet. :k

Achila:
However, an art house release is far from the same thing as a multi-plex release. It has a limited built-in audience who will go to see such a film. Hooligans does put it together for you in terms of showing you what this culture looks like from the inside, but that still doesn't mean that the average American movie goer is going to care, and therefore, care enough to translate this into butts in seats. There's much that isn't explained - - that may be a fault of the screenplay -- but because it is a "British film", it doesn't feel like it needs to tell them what this is about -- this' their lives and they know that well.


Art house distribution counts as distribution. It is the route of many festival favorites...and can often lead to bigger distribution. But I kinda figured it would get a Landmark deal or something, at least.

Hey, and...gorgeous pictures. :cool:
Oh yeah, and TG--do you remember in what special behind the scene clips you saw Elijah through a shirt over the camera when he was being filmed with his dialect coach???

Just a quick note before I hop (no pun intended! :D ) a page and read the Hooligans reports:

There is an interview with Elijah up at the SportsIllustrated.com (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2005/writers/richard_deitsch/04/29/media.circus.wood/index.html?section=si_latest) website, where he talks about the film, sports and other things. Still no word on US distribution, but they do refer to it as his "upcoming film". I SO wish that someone would take the hint. :mad:

Just popping in to thank Achila and Pelagia for their wonderful report and beautiful piccies! Thank you so much! Cheers. :)

Thank you for the lovely report, ladies! Although I have to admit that I hate that you could see why it's having trouble getting distribution -- I think my heart broke a little bit, reading that. I hope you're right that it at least gets art-house distribution, because the thought of not getting to see this on the big screen just... well, there's that broken heart thing, again. :(

I've heard from others who have seen the film more than once that the soundtrack is pretty good, and I'll take it as a good sign that you can't remember hearing it! I think the best soundtracks are always the ones that blend in so well that you hardly notice them.

Argh. But I want to see this film so badly that it hurts. I haven't lost hope, yet, but... *sigh*

S-T-E-R-N-O-C-L-E-I-D-O-M-A-S-T-O-I-D

Just practicing! :D

Alyon, when does the sched for the Seattle International Film Fest come out? :z:

honey!

OH HONEY ELF YOU ARE SO FUNNY !!!!!!!

:lol: :lol: :lol:
or maybe it is the beer i`m drinking!!
:lol: :lol: :lol:


WOOD

Thanks so much for the report and follow-up posts, Achila. I copied and pasted them into the TORc EW thread, if that's OK. It's just a little group over there, but several don't lurk here. It it is not OK, let me know and I will delete them.

Thanks SO much, and I hope you are and Lexi are wrong about he distribution. But, I agree with Alyon that "art house distribution" counts as distribution. Unfortunately, our small city only has multiplexes, so I won't get to see it until it goes DVD -- but at least SOMEBODY will see it on the big screen!

~ Mechtild

Thank you for the lovely report, ladies! Although I have to admit that I hate that you could see why it's having trouble getting distribution -- I think my heart broke a little bit, reading that. I hope you're right that it at least gets art-house distribution, because the thought of not getting to see this on the big screen just... well, there's that broken heart thing, again. :(

Believe me, it pained me to realize this. At some point, I leaned over to Pelagia and whispered about it, because it became so apparent to me, and we both agreed.

I've heard from others who have seen the film more than once that the soundtrack is pretty good, and I'll take it as a good sign that you can't remember hearing it! I think the best soundtracks are always the ones that blend in so well that you hardly notice them.

I'm sure that's true. And you know, it may have to do with the fact that I didn't know any of the songs that some of you guys knew beforehand, so it didn't leave that much of an impression. Terrance Jay's "One Blood" was played over the final fight -- which is sort of a cliched thing to do -- and it was a pretty good song. Apparently, he's already been offered a recording contract on the strength of that song.

Argh. But I want to see this film so badly that it hurts. I haven't lost hope, yet, but... *sigh*Well luv, we can always hope! :k

Honey:
Alyon, when does the sched for the Seattle International Film Fest come out?

May 5th. The festival is the biggest in the US--from May 19th to June 12th.

Crossing fingers!!! :z:

(though I am slated to be out of town pretty much all of that time :( ...if it shows, I'll have to think of some way to slink back for a screening).

ETA: I see there is a sneak preview night this tuesday for members. I must force alyon's daughter to go, despite all of her homework obligatons!! I don't have a membership, but she does... :cool:

Oh, wow -- do let us know about the Seattle festival, Alyon. I'm seriously sitting here considering whether I could manage a day trip up there to see the film if it's on the schedule. And, of course, I'd have to figure out a way to convince my family that I'm really not insane... :rolleyes:


EDIT: I'm adding a link that someone just pointed out to me, from the SXSW Film Festival website (http://2005.sxsw.com/film/), a download-able video with clips and interviews with the cast and director. Right-click-save this link. (http://photos.imageevent.com/maegnas/sxsw/film/sxsw-hooligans.mov) About 15 MB, Quicktime video. Enjoy!

Hi, Faculty! :)

I'm just popping in to say hi to Achila and Pelagia. It was great meeting you at the screening! I just wish we'd had time to go for coffee or something. So sorry you had such a trial getting home. :(

Your review is amazingly detailed for one viewing! You are indeed worthy members of the Faculty. I know what you mean about U.S. distributors being wary of "Hooligans." A country used to watching "gangsta" movies with plenty of guns and drugs might find the hooligans a bit quaint and/or irrelevant. But we can continue to hope. Thanks for the lovely pictures, btw. :cool:

Thanks, too, to BunnyBugs for the very cool links. :k

morning to you all!!!

thank you so much for tha link Bunnie!!!! :k :k

i AM CROSSING MY FINGERS FOR ALL YOU AMERICANS


THAT THE MOVIE WILL COME TO YOU!!!!!! :z: :z:

I`ll have to wait untill fall but at least i know it`s comming!!

LOVE YOU ALL /WOOD

EDIT:after seeing this picture i realy think that elijah needs a littel brake
but not too long thou!!!! :k :k

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v399/erendil/3749rotkee_mecam005.jpg

WOOD

Everything Is Illuminated's release date has been bumped to September 16th! Presumably to put it closer to the Oscar-calibre films coming out in the fall.

Go here and click on "EII" on the left hand side: http://wip.warnerbros.com/

So a whole more month to wait.... :(

Thanks for the Hooligans review, Achila and Pelagia! :) I'm pleased you both enjoyed it so much.

And Bunnie - thanks for the link to the SXSW clip. :)

TG--do you remember in what special behind the scene clips you saw Elijah through a shirt over the camera when he was being filmed with his dialect coach???

I don't remember seeing this either, Alyon. The only behind-the-scenes clip I recall with Elijah and the dialect coach - apart from the 'flirty' one, of course :) - is THIS ONE. (http://www.imagemagician.com/images/blossom/lines1.gif)

It's on FOTR theatrical edition. Disc 2. lordoftherings.net Featurettes: Languages of Middle-earth.
Elijah says: ‘Hi - as I go over my lines, in embarrassment,’ then he laughs.

So, Tg, Can you point us in the direction of the one you're referring to? :)

Achila That's a shame about EII. Another month! Lets hope it's a case of, 'All good things are worth waiting for.' :)

FOTR is having it's network TV premiere here in the UK tonight. :) Just in case any UK'ers have missed the trailers: Channel 4 - 7.45pm.

Boo hoo on having to wait an extra month for EEI, Achila.

wood, I loved that picture and had never seen it before.

Blossom, I adored your gif, too. Do you know how to save a gif onto a hard drive? We have a couple of photo programs. Could I save it into one of those? Anyway, I thought, watching your 'yawning and laughing' gif, "Shees, but he'd make a terrific Italian. I can just hear Neapolitan music in the background!"

~ Mechtild

Do you know how to save a gif onto a hard drive?

Yes, Mech. When you have opened the link, and the gif is playing on your screen, simply save it as you would save any picture. Position your cursor over the image, right-click, and select 'save picture as.' This will download the gif to your computer, wherever you choose to save it - 'My Pictures,' etc. Good luck! :)

Dear, dear Blossom. How sweet you are to respond, and so quickly. Alas, I have had this instruction before, now that you have mentioned it:

Position your cursor over the image, right-click, and select 'save picture as.'

But, in our computer set-up, when I right-click, although I can see the command 'save picture as' listed in the drop-down menu, it is one of the items that is not 'lit', so that I can't use it. Whaaah! Only three or four choices on the whole menu are lit.

My husband installed all this stuff; maybe he knows a "back-door" way of doing it.

Thanks so much for trying! :k

Edited to add: This time I right-clicked it again and clicked on one of the few lit choices, "Add to Favourites," just to see if that was anything I could use. But, it meant adding it as a link. I closed that and right-clicked on your GIF again, just to look again at the drop-down menu, and there it was, LIT: "save picture as." Hurray! Maybe it is some little glich in our program...? Anyway, I have tried saving it into our "Pictures" file and, hopefully, it has worked!

Edited to add AGAIN: I opened my file, and there it was, Blossom! But, it played in fast-motion. ???? :confused: Well, better in fast-motion than not at all! :D


~ Mechtild

Actually, my reaction to hearing about EII's September release date is "AWESOME!" August is usually the dumping ground for films that the studio has no hopes of doing well either financially (otherwise they would have released it earlier in the summer) or during the awards season (otherwise they would release it later in the fall). September is the beginning of the awards season, especially now that the Academy Awards are a month earlier than they had been traditionally. In 2003, "Lost is Translation" was released in September, and was able to build word of mouth before the other critically acclaimed films were released in October ("Mystic River") and later.

So, the September date for EII makes me think that the studio is going to be pushing for it during the awards season. The fact that the Independent Spirit Awards had both Elijah and Liev handing out an award back in February gave me hopes that that was the studio's intention, and now I'm sure of it.

Achila and Pelagia, I'm adding another big THANK-YOU to the bunch of thank-yous others have already heaped on you... I really enjoyed your ingenious and erudite report. :k :k



Stumbled across a German web site on the Hooligans phenomenon, which pays a closer look on the roots of the problem and the effects. And I read a book review about the experiences of an ex-hooligan, and I must say, I felt reminded of someone...
(My translation, I'm apologizing in advance for mistakes)

The American Ethnologist Bill Buford, who is 38 today, led for 8 years a remarkable double life. Being an editor of a London literature magazine during the week, he campaigned the fans of Manchester United through Europe on the weekends. The Cambridge alumnus, "bel-esprit" to the core, snuck into pubs with the Hooligans and boozed until passing out. His notepad was always at hand. When sober again, he finicky recorded his experiences, nightmarish scenes filled with horrid details. His book "Geil auf Gewalt. Unter Hooligans" ("Among the Thugs") was published in 1992. Its frosty, amoral accuracy reminds one of the war diaries of Ernst Jünger, writes "Der Spiegel".

Buford wanted it to happen right in front of his eyes. He wanted to get as close to the violence as possible, wanted to know how it works. Minutious he reconstructs its escalation, recording his own sudden becoming part of the seething crowd, - I am enjoying this, I'm getting excited-. The masses hungers for the event, and the hunger wants to be satisfied. Buford, the "bel-esprit", has had satisfied his lust. Some Carabinieri thrashed him, til he was a whining picture of misery.

Achila, Pelagia, is Matt's story comparable to Bill's to some degree?


Blossom, that gif was too cute! Thank you!! :)

And I keep forgetting: *hugs* to Ylla :)!

Achila, Pelagia, is Matt's story comparable to Bill's to some degree?I have been very remiss in not saying "you're welcome" to all who thanked us -- it was our pleasure, and you should know that we took our responsibility of being the eyes and ears of The Faculty very seriously.

It's somewhat similar, whiteling, but Matt gets involved in this because he's a lost soul, not because he wants to record the experience for journalistic purposes (in fact, when the Green Street Elite finds out that both he and his absentee father are journalists, all hell breaks loose). With the GSE, Matt finds a place to belong.

Now that I’m back at my own place and writing under my own name: belated thanks for all the appreciative comments on Achila’s and my Hooligans report. One memorable moment we forgot to mention is the appearance (if you can use that term in reference to a sound), in one scene, of what Achila calls “the Moria scream.” We had to chuckle.

whiteling: Thanks for the post about the journalist who hung out with the Man U fans. It sounds as if Buford set out deliberately to study the “firm,” and got sucked into the whole milieu emotionally. In Matt’s case, he becomes involved accidentally, and gets in deeper for the reasons that Achila mentions. One of the things that surprised me (and that someone asked Lexi about afterward) is that these guys – as portrayed in the film -- aren’t unemployed or disaffected youth. They’re all ages, and most of them have steady jobs. Was there any indication, in the Buford article, as to whether he found the same thing?

No EII until September?? Arghhhhh! But I like Sharpe’s Girl’s more positive take on this; and she’s right about August often being a “dumping ground.”

Everything Is Illuminated's release date has been bumped to September 16th!

*WHINE* And I just put EII on my calendar. In ink. skirtchskritchskritch

Presumably to put it closer to the Oscar-calibre films coming out in the fall

:cool:

Blossom, thank you for that adorable GIF. But what do you mean the "flirty" one??? We wants to see, Preciuos, yes we does!

And Mech, I've been meaning to say how much of a kick Alyon and I got out of your "Frodo art travesties!" :D

honey!

Thanks for the post about the journalist who hung out with the Man U fans. It sounds as if Buford set out deliberately to study the “firm,” and got sucked into the whole milieu emotionally. In Matt’s case, he becomes involved accidentally, and gets in deeper for the reasons that Achila mentions. One of the things that surprised me (and that someone asked Lexi about afterward) is that these guys – as portrayed in the film -- aren’t unemployed or disaffected youth. They’re all ages, and most of them have steady jobs. Was there any indication, in the Buford article, as to whether he found the same thing?

I found no info on how deliberately Buford was involved, but I did find a confirmation of the correctness of the portrayal in the film -

The allure of violence know no social bounds. According to German sociologists middle- and upper-class members can be found among the Hooligans. Doctors, lawyers, traders, engineers and family men soever. Respectable Germans, who work hard during the week and who whoop it up on the football pitch at the weekend. They get a buzz from beating up somebody, like others get their kick out of bungee jumping or adventure holiday. Violence is their drug. They break out of constraints, get away from it all, disrupting their corsets and satisfying their hunger for violent emotions. The Land Office of Criminal Investigation of Düsseldorf reckons that 4000 to 6000 German Hooligans tend to violent behaviour. As a matter of fact, there are teenagers with right wing extremist tendencies taking part, but they are clearly outnumbered.

Seems as if Lexi got this very clos to reality.

Anyone interested in the German site, the address is www.hooligans.de

Seems as if Lexi got this very close to reality.As we'd already read Lexi saying (and as Pelagia and I heard at the Q&A session after the film), this was a life she had lived herself in Germany. She knew these types of men so it's no surprise that she got this aspect right (not to mention the fact that one of the other screenwriters is Dougie Brimson, who also is well acquainted with this lifestyle).

well mechtild,i haven`t seen this one before either!!!!

he looks so tired poor baby!!!!! :k :k


blossom,lovely gift!!(as alwayes :k :k )

am not at home is with some friends hijacked my sister in laws computer
:lol: :lol:

she knows about my little obssesion and glady let me post in here
becuse she knows how dear you all are too me!!! :k :k

hade too many beers so i will stop writing now before i write somthing
that don`t belong in here!!! :p :D :cool:

saying godnight and see you all tomorrow!!!!!

"waves to whiteling,serena see you soon just two month left!!"

hugs too ylla,hope every thing is okey!!!!!


LOVE YOU ALL/WOOD

But what do you mean the "flirty" one??? We wants to see, Preciuos, yes we does!

Your wish is my command, Honey. :)

I'm sure you will have seen it before. IIRC, this has also been referred to as the 'lean in and laugh' shot. It's Frolijah with dialect coach Roisin Carty, and it's HERE. (http://www.imagemagician.com/images/blossom/flirty15.gif)

I slowed the gif down a little, as the actual shot moves quite quickly. Enjoy! :)

Mech I'm glad the first gif finally worked for you - but in fast-motion? That's very odd. :confused:

Wood,(waves :) ) Is that picture from the ROTK extras? Elijah yawns quite a lot in those behind-the-scenes shots. It's quite endearing, I think. :)

Blossom, I adore that gif ("Flirty") - it just oozes charm. I saved that one, too. And guess what? It plays back at the normal speed, even though the other one doesn't. Go figure!

Thanks so much,

~ Mechtild

This news about EII is OK with me. Young Master and Miss ceefour will be back in school by September 16. (They're not out yet, and I have them back already!)

C4

Morning All!!

Back Home!!!

Lovely Gift Blossom, He Is So Full Of Charm That Man!!!!!

I Realy Don`t Know Witch Seen They Are Preparing But It Is From Rotkee!!


Love Yoy All/wood

From the wonderous undone27 on LJ -- the news we've been waiting for (maybe):

FRIDAY, APRIL 29, 2005
It's a "Go" for "Inferno"

According to Daily Variety, New Line Pictures has announced that "The Divine Comedy: Inferno," an updated version of the classic comic poem by Dante Alighieri, will begin production in June 2005 for a summer 2007 release.

New Line likened the project to "The Lord of the Rings," saying this property offered even greater scope and depth. The approach, like the "Rings" series, will be a faithful retelling of the original story, with some story tweaks and updates to enable it to appeal to the modern audience.

The identity of the director was withheld due to the potential controversy inherent to the project. Elijah Wood is rumored to be associated with the project, but is not in the lead role of the planar traveller, Dante. All casting is reportedly in place but has not been announced.

If the film is a success, fans can look forward to part 2, "Purgatorio", and part 3, "Paradiso" in 2009 and 2011, respectively.

Budget is reportedly in the 100 to 150 million USD range.

http://obversity.blogspot.com/2005/04/its-go-for-inferno.html

Thanks for bringing that over here, Achila! I just hope the rumor is true! That would be very exciting.

I'm not very familiar with the piece, so this might call for some research (or some more knowledgable Faculty members). Some of us over on LJ were just toying with the idea of the role of Lucifer... :)

I'm so excited, I can hardly breathe! And yes, Lucifer would be simply a...er...um...divine...(pardon the pun) role for him.

BTW, for anyone not familiar with this work, you can read it online at:

http://www.everypoet.com/archive/poetry/dante/dante_contents.htm

Thanks for bringing that over here, Achila! I just hope the rumor is true! That would be very exciting.

I'm not very familiar with the piece, so this might call for some research (or some more knowledgable Faculty members). Some of us over on LJ were just toying with the idea of the role of Lucifer... :)

GASP!! *Thud* :eek: ;) :)
Sorry, I just lost it for a moment - Elijah in Dante's Divine Comedy? Can it be true? Thanks for this great news!
I have to admit that I've never read it, but I know several works of art that illustrate the epic poem. Many artists have been inspired by the Divina Commedia. Will Elwood play Lucifer? Hmmm. I could imagine him very well in the part of Vergil, the male leader of Dante (his female leader is Beatrice). Vergil was THE ancient Roman poet, and I found a very nice portrait of him:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0903/whiteling/vergil.jpg

Slight resemblance to a certain actor, no? ;)

Here's an illustration (Gustave Doré), which shows Beatrice and Vergil:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0903/whiteling/beatricevirgilio.jpg

I'd love to see the One Lad with Toga and laurel wreath! :cool:

I'd love to see the One Lad with Toga and laurel wreath! :cool:This does beg the question, though, of what they mean by "updated" -- I just hope they aren't planning to do any 21st century take on it -- that rarely works out well.

Achila, I agree. Divine Comedy reloaded :eek: - NOOOOO! That would be definitely the inferno. (Where's that hair-raising smilie when you need it)

Alyon's Daughter took a semester course on the Divine Comedy.... Inferno...Purgatoro... Paradiso in her freshman year at high school. She says that Lucifer is a huge three headed monster who lives at the bottom of hell--frozen in the lake in fact, and cannot move.

Probably not the role :rolleyes:

OH--

And Blossom!! the gifs are FAB!! :cool:

Good Afternoon My friends :D

As promised here is a pic of young master hobbit
He is growing fast as he certainly eats like a hobbit
He is also brave and quite cute....just like his namesake!!!



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v480/ylla/MrFrodo2.jpg



I hope this pic doesn't blow out the BW for KD....sorry but I haven't mastered reducing size on pics yet :o
I'll post again....soon I hope...as I've said before, I miss all of you! :k

oh ylla ,,so cute!!!!!!! :k :k
GREAT TO "SEE#YOU!!!! :k

Well have to admitt i don`t know anything about this story

i have heard of Dante but there is stops!!! :(

So thank you achila fot the link i will go over there and
do my homework!!!! :k :k

and thnk you for the news!!!! :k

LOVE YOU ALL/WOOD

Hang on, everybody. Pelagia just pointed out to me the fact that this blog is loaded with joke posts. Could be a possible false alarm, so let's wait until we get a real press release before we get too much more excited.

:( :( :(

*sniff*
:(
It sounded too good to be true, boohoo.
Well, time will tell, I guess.


Ylla, awww - your little master hobbit is sooo cute! What a sweetie :k

Ylla, your kitty is soooooooo cute!

Achila, BunnieBugs, Whiteling, what a shame about the Divine Comedy project being a gag. (It did sound a little fishy... a studio piling a bunch of money into the Paradiso? I could see them wanting to film Purgatorio and Inferno - plenty of action, angst, horror, and even some possible erotic scenes - but the Paradiso? Two hours of checking out the souls of the blessed and the beatific vision? Doesn't sound like film material to me....) But if I had my druthers, I'd prefer to see EW play, not Virgil (big part though it is), but Paolo, of "Paolo and Francesca", the adulterous lovers suffering in Purgatory.

Dante Gabriel Rossetti's Paolo and Francesca (I haven't studied this picture in decades, but I think that is Virgil and Dante in the center panel; the left shows the lovers falling in love over a book; the right shows them experiencing the flames of Purgatory, but together; awwww....):


http://www.modjourn.brown.edu/Image/Rossetti/PandF.jpg


~ Mechtild

I think this report sounds a little fishy, too. I can't find anything about it at Variety or on IMDB.

I wish Elijah WOULD sign up for another decent film though. :(

Mechtild -- My first thought, re a possible Divine Comedy with Elijah (before I got suspicious about the item), was also Paolo! (BTW, can we expect an addition to your gallery, soon?? :z: )

whiteling -- Thanks for the additional info on German hooligans. In Lexi's film, a sense of comradeship and community is another strong reason why people get involved in these groups.

ylla! Pet Mr. Frodo for me! ;) But what color are his eyes?

Pelagia, I googled up "Paolo and Francesca" to see what other artists have done. There are quite a few, actually. I only knew of the Rossetti one. Here in one by Ary Scheffler, c. 1835, "The Ghosts of Paolo and Francesca Appear to Virgil and Dante". It has a bare breast in it, so I can't post it, only link it. I think it's a pretty nice illustration for the scene, though the lovers in Scheffler's seem to be dreaming -- separately, unlike Rossetti's, in which they look as though they are suffering -- together. Now, EW looks fetching both dreaming and suffering onscreen, but I think I have to give him the greater kudos for his onscreen suffering. ;)

http://www.wga.hu/art/s/scheffer/paolo_f2.jpg

Oh -- I am afraid the Rossetti's painting would not do for an "Art Travesty." The style is too grainy or sketchy, the way it is painted. I could never make an image from a photo blend in with that; I haven't the expertise. I could "rough up" the face in the photo image, but then it would be almost unrecognizable, and then, what would be the point in displaying it as a Frodo Art Travesty? :D

But thank you for asking. :)

~ Mechtild

So, probably a joke, huh? Do we know for sure? Oh, well. At least Elijah won't be playing a giant, three-headed monster. :D

So, probably a joke, huh? Do we know for sure? Oh, well. At least Elijah won't be playing a giant, three-headed monster. :DWell, there's some consolation in that! But I guess we don't know for sure -- just a hunch, based on what else is on that blog, and the fact that there was nothing on Daily Variety's site (or New Line's either, for that matter), where the article was supposed to have come from.

Well, if there were three heads, there would be three faces. ;)

C4

Good Evening.

This is to anyone interested in reading the book, Everything is Illuminated. I just finished it the other day and am offering it to an interested party. I'm not concerned with it being returned. There are some parts in it that I wouldn't want my daughters to read while I'm not home. It is, shall we say, an unusual book. There are differing opinions as to whether it should be read before or after seeing the movie version. I am glad I read it first. How this book has been turned into a potentially award-winning movie is a major question (of mine). I'm sure EJW's performance will most definitely be a key factor. PM me if you would like to read it.

Oh, well. At least Elijah won't be playing a giant, three-headed monster. :D
Of course, after seeing some of Elijah's recent choices (Kevin, The Guy, getting squished by King Kong), he would probably leap at this opportunity, for the novelty factor. :D

Three heads. Yes, indeed, each one with a different expression. Now, I could enjoy watching that! :p

Thanks for the offer, Shelbyshire. I'll wait until after the movie; I think reading the book first, as it's so much more detailed, tends to spoil a movie for me. I look forward to the discussion of book vs. movie after EII comes out!