Peace be with you! C4

"Never in a lifetime, Mr Frodo - that huge Christmas tree will never fit through your front door!"

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0903/whiteling/frodosam.jpg

-----------------

Peace be with you!


Thanks Tg, for your tip regarding the "Cafe Press". Have to check that one soon. :)

Did everybody have a fantastic Chrismas?

I typed in Elijah+Christmas and this is the picture google came up with:
http://www.rmhspokane.org/images/elijah.jpg
Nothing to do with our Elijah but...awwww...my heart goes out to this little fellow. He was born 13 weeks premature. Can you believe that! I hope the little guy is a fighter because he's going to need some strength (and I know what I'm talking about). What a cute little boy.

(reminds me of how I must have looked like 30 odd years ago at Christmas day ...too small, fragile and with lots of tubes around and in me)


Blossom,
Thanks for the gif(s)
:)

[delurk] Just popping in from my sister's house to wish my Faculty colleagues a

Joyous Yuletide

Hope it's Frodolicious!

:) :) :)

[/relurk]

Hullo Faculty Sisters! Wishing you all a
Merry Chrisma-Hana-Kwanza-Kah! :k :k

Moondancer, best wishes to that little bundle... Is his name Elijah by any chance (to get him to pop up on your search)? When I was last at my mom's, she was talking about one of my great-nephews, named Eijah, and she pronounced it Eli-juh. I know of only one Elijah who pronounces his name like that--I know my great-nephew doesn't ;) . Good heavens, I've ruined her :eek: :p !

We're a couple of days behind the Shire calendar in celebrating Yule, but I doubt if Hobbits would let that stand in their way :) , so here's a picture of Yuletide peace from Michael Whelan:

http://www.imagemagician.com/images/tgshaw/Artwork/www_pics_am-whelan-michael117.jpg


I'm not going to my mom's til later in the week, when one of my brothers will be visiting, so I'm trying to use these few days off work to organize my life--as always :rolleyes: . I'm not sure if it's endurance beyond hope or hope unquenchable, but I could use them both right now. ;)

Yes, Tg.
His name is indeed Elijah.

This little babyboy has stolen my heart, but I love watching premature babies. When I visit somebody in a hospital and I know that they have a department with prematures, I love to just look at them. They're not beautiful to look at (although my mum didn't agree with me but...well, that's why she was my dear mum) because they're too small, often they look purple, they've got all these tubes sticking out of them but...I love watching them...little creatures holding on to life

Tolkien spoof could be bad for your Elf

Luke Harding in Berlin
Sunday December 26, 2004
The Observer

It has been described as the worst movie ever made, but a Swiss parody of the Oscar-winning Lord of the Rings trilogy has been playing to packed cinemas across the country since it opened 10 days ago - and is set to become Switzerland's biggest box-office hit of the year.

The Ring Thing shamelessly draws its inspiration from Monty Python. Instead of Frodo it has Friedo, a bank employee who falls through the toilet of a Swiss aircraft while rehearsing his marriage proposal to his chilly boss, Heidi. Friedo lands with his ring in the middle of the Alps, where he encounters a number of eccentric figures: Sauraus, an evil lord who wants to bake the world in Swiss fondue cheese; Almgandhi, a forgetful wizard; Schleimli, an evil green gnome in lederhosen; a drug-addicted elf princess called Grmpfli, and several farting elves. The dialogue is entirely in guttural Swiss German, a dialect that for most of the world remains incomprehensible.

The film has defied all expectations, attracting 30,000 Swiss cinemagoers in its first week. 'It's already the second biggest Swiss film of 2004. It has a huge release,' a spokesman for the production company said.

But is it funny? 'Yes, it's very funny. It's a spoof. The concept is very amusing,' he added.

Films made entirely in Swiss German are unusual, said producer Dominik Kaiser. 'Swiss-German comedies tend to do well. Swiss humour is different from German humour. But there isn't a lot of Swiss humour around,' he admitted.

The film was shot and produced in less than a year, using the rugged mountains of eastern Switzerland to double for the epic New Zealand landscape of Peter Jackson's Rings trilogy. (The Jackson films were 'a bit long', Kaiser complained.)

Several of the Swiss-German actors look like their Hollywood counterparts - especially Friedo, played by Edward Piccin, who is well known in Switzerland as a sitcom star. His resemblance to Frodo's real avatar, Elijah Wood, is quite uncanny.

Swiss film critics have given The Ring Thing mixed reviews. Some have hailed it as Switzerland's answer to Monty Python and the Holy Grail . Others, however, have pointed out that after half an hour or so the humour dries up - despite a good gag in which Lord Sauraus produces a ring made of Emmenthal cheese.

' Monty Python and the Holy Grail has proved that you can make humour out of not very much,' critic Bruno Amstutz noted, awarding the film two stars out of five. 'The problem is that everything in The Ring Thing has already been done by Monty Python, only better. Its most charming moments are at the beginning, when a plane hanging by a thread is flying through cardboard clouds.'

Switzerland's leading news magazine, Facts , expressed grudging admiration, but also speculated that it was the worst Swiss film ever made.

Yesterday Kaiser shrugged off the criticism. 'This isn't a surprise. Film critics in Switzerland like cultural movies. They don't like dirty humour. There is a lot of silly stuff in our movie.'

The Ring Thing has attracted a surprising amount of international interest, including from mainstream distributor Buena Vista. It opens in Austria and Germany next year and there have been inquiries from the United States and Britain. 'We first have to get some nice subtitles done,' Kaiser said.
********************

This' the man in question -- Edward Piccin -- pics in the attachments. I'll let you be the judge. :)

This' the man in question -- Edward Piccin -- pics in the attachments. I'll let you be the judge. :)
Something of a resemblence, IMHO. The first one reminds me of some of Elwood's photo shoots where he's trying to look "tough." The second one could be called uncanny--except for the fact that, of course, the whole idea is to make him look like Frolijah, so every effort has been taken. Not a bad rendition of what less-observant folks might call his one expression ;) . The nose is wrong, though. Methinks he'd have a harder time with truly subtle nostril acting without the Real Thing's slim, elegant nose and nostrils. :)

The storyline actually sounds more like a parody on Germanic-based fantasy in general than on LotR.

------------

ETA: Another "clicking for Moggy" discovery. This one's very upfront about the origin of its fabric, and makes an odd sort of sense, given today's business climate...? The One Tie (http://www.legendaryheroes.com/s.nl/sc.2/category.128/it.A/id.575/.f) Now that it's on sale, it's cheaper than the little swatches being sold on ebay--and even serves a useful purpose (if you think neckties serve a useful purpose ;) ).

... a good gag in which Lord Sauraus produces a ring made of Emmenthal cheese.

The storyline actually sounds more like a parody on Germanic-based fantasy in general than on LotR.

Erm, I take this assessment as an excuse NOT to be obliged to watch this literally cheesy ;) film (not even in the name of research!!). :z:
(But I do like the name of the Dark Lord, Sauraus. "Die Sau rauslassen" means to "let one's hair down"... :D )

Sorry to interrupt, and this is totally OT, but if anyone has a way to contact Ainon and see if she is alright, after the terrible tsunamis that struck that region of the world, I'd really appreciate it. Maeglian has e-mailed her, I know, but I wasn't sure if anyone here would have a phone number or other method of contact.

I've sent ainon an e-mail to ask her if she (and her family and friends) was OK and she replied to say that everything is fine with her.

Thanks, Moondancer -- glad to hear it!

Thanks, Moondancer. I am extremely relieved that Ainon is OK. My heart goes out to everyone in the region - what a terrible tragedy. :(

Yes, thanks... I'd just read the Rivendell thread on the disaster before coming here, and was going to email her if no one had heard. Although one poster in Rivendell mentioned that they weren't expecting to hear from a friend there for at least a week, even if he was all right. So it sounds very good that ainon is not only okay, but is even able to receive and send email. :z: Offering a prayer of thanks that she and her family are safe, and sending thoughts and prayers for all those who are suffering. :z: Too big of a disaster to get my mind around right now.

I`M SO RELIFE TO HEAR THAT AINON IS OKEY!!!!!! :)

I`M SENDING MY THOUGHTS TO THOSE WHO LIVES
IN THE AREA AND TO THOSE WHO ARE THERE ON
VACCATION!!!!!! :z: :z:


I ALSO HOPE EVERYONE HADE A WONDERFUL HOLLIDAY!!!!!


LOVE YOU ALL/WOOD

(((Faculty)))

Hey guys, yep, I'm fine. :) I have been scarce around here, mainly because I still don't have my RotK EE and am very bummed about that, but I had been planning to pop in anyway by the New Year, because it's really no fun practising restraint from the Faculty. ;)

But yes, I'm safe - Malaysia is safe and sound; only the northern coastal areas were affected. By M'sian standards, the situation is terrible, but compared to other places, we're very, very lucky. Geographically, we were protected from the brunt of the tsunami forces: the Indonesian island of Sumatra was in the way.

Thanks, guys .

((((Faculty))))) (((Narya))) (((Tg))) ((((wood))) (((Achila))) (((Moondancer)))

(((Ainon))) - thank goodness! I'm so glad you are OK :k !

Besides, I'm at a loss for words - such terrible natural disasters are too staggering.

I just came back to Moscow from vacations in Europe...and learned so frightening news about this disactrous catastrophe in Asia. :( I'm very happy that our dear (((Ainon))) :k is OK.

Ainon, so glad to hear you are high and dry in Malaysia. :k

My husband has yet to hear from some of his contract engineers in India. They commute in to Bangalore from a coastal area, so he is quite concerned.

Oh!! I am so relieved to hear you are okay, Ainon. Thanks for posting when it still must be a stressful time for you. I’m glad you were relatively protected. My heart goes out to everyone in the region.


Happy Holidays to everyone. I know I’ve missed several birthdays that I’ll have to go back and check on to get right. But I know one was Moondancer’s—so Happy Birthday to you quite late!! Random, too—right? Happy Birthday. I hope you both enjoyed yourselves, all snuggled up to hobbits on TV.

I have a friend coming in from England tonight who will be here for two weeks. I would actually like to spend the next two weeks hyping myself up for ORC—but alas I will have to refrain from exposing myself in any real obvious way—I really can’t expose all my complete geekiness to the unintiated. Oh yeah, like she doesn’t know already…*sigh* I’ll stick my head in here when I can to breathe in a little of the sweet talk even when I can’t join in.

I want to thank Honey for all the work she is doing on the little Faculty book to give Elijah, and I encourage those of you who still haven’t, to please PM a contribution to her—even if it’s just a line of two about Frodo or Elijah. We all have certain things in common, but we all are individuals and I love to hear the various ways people here express themselves and find their own unique angles. So please, don’t forget. You will make the offering richer. Deadline is Jan 1st. PM to HoneyElf.

Thanks
Peace

from Alyon:
I want to thank Honey for all the work she is doing on the little Faculty book to give Elijah
Me too.
and I encourage those of you who still haven’t, to please PM a contribution to her
Have just done so.

So relieved to hear you're OK, Ainon. It's hard to believe what's happened in Sumatra and nearby. I'm still trying to take it in.

Morning Too You!!!!

I Also Want To Thank Honey For Her Work
With The Book!!!!!!!! :) :)

I Have A Hard Time Right Know My Grandmother Is Very Ill!
She Is Very Old But So Dear Too Me.i Lived With Her When My Parents Divorsed! :( :(

Also Very Worried,about The Swedish In Asia,over 2000 Swedish
Are Missing,around 20 Is From My Little Village!!!!! :( :(

I Feel I Hade The Nead To Eas My Heart A Bit And I Know You All
Understand!!!!!!!

Love You All/wood

I'm sorry to hear about your grandmother, wood. :k

And it was just on the news here just as I was reading your message, that the Swedes are very, very worried because a lot of their countrymen are missing. Gosh...nature can be so fantastic, but every once in a while you're reminded of the incredible force it has and how small humans are.

Honeyelf, I'm going to try and sit down today to write you something for that collection you're making. Fingers crossed and don't get your hopes up. :rolleyes:


PS I just bought the Essential Bruce Springsteen - 30 career spanning classics. :cool:
I knew that he had a couple of 'good' songs, but it didn't really sink in until I had a good listen to these CD's. Awesome! You can't imagine how much I enjoy listening to it. That's one of the best feelings I know in life: listening to music that lifts you up until you reach cloud 9.

(((Wood))), I wish I wouldn't know exactly of what you speak. My thoughts are with you, dear. :k
Here's a little pic for you:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0903/whiteling/frodos_hug_small.jpg


Good luck for your writing, Moondancer. Believe me, it is only the beginning that is difficult, once you've set off... you'll see. :)
from Moondancer:You can't imagine how much I enjoy listening to it. That's one of the best feelings I know in life: listening to music that lifts you up until you reach cloud 9.

Ha, why does this remind me of a certain actor?? ;)

And Welcome back, Serena :k - so good to "see" you again!

THANKS TOO YOU ALL FOR YOUR KIND
WORDS!! :k

AND THANKS WHITELING FOR THE PICTURE!!! :k :k

I AGREE WITH YOU,IF THERE WERE A CLOUD 10 I
THINK I WOULDE BEE THERE!!!! :p :D


GOOD LUCK MOONDANCER WITH YOUR WRITING,
THE HARDEST PART FOR ME WAS TOO KEEP AWAY
FROM SWOONING BUT MAYBE YOU DON`T HAVE
THAT PROBLEM!!!! ;)

OH, SERENA WELCOME BACK!!!! WERE HAVE YOU BEEN GIRL????? :cool:

LOVE YOU ALL/WOOD

Dear wood, I was just about to say I couldn't match Whiteling's (or rather, Frolijah's) hug - but then I found this one:

http://webplaza.pt.lu/barbara/98af4d10.jpg

My thoughts and hugs are with you too.

And with those who have lost, or may have lost, loved ones in the disaster in Asia, and those who are coping with the aftermath. Wish Frolijah could give them a hug too.

More to write in the New Year .... am just off on a round-Britain tour by car (in a blizzard!). Wish me luck ....

I`M FEELING THE HUGS AND YOUR THOUGHTS!!!! :k

THANK YOU SERENA FOR THE PICTURE!!! :k

I CAN FEEL THE ENERGI FROM FROLIJAH`S HUG!!!!! :k

GOOD LUCK ON YOUR TRIP!!!!!



LOVE YOU ALL/WOOD

Wood, I'm so sorry to hear about your grandmother. I'll be praying for her, and for you to be comforted. :k

As for the disaster in Asia, I'd heard that many of the missing were European tourists. when you said 2000 form Sweden alone, I was astounded. But I just looked at the headlines, and the toll has now risen to 44,000! That's of a scale that is so huge I can hardly take it in. My heart aches for those affected.

I was fascinated to read of one lucky woman though. She'd been sucked out of her sea-shore home, and tumbled like a rag doll in the surf for over an hour. She washed up on the beach with only a broken nose, broken ankle, and scratches over her body. Survivor stories always ease my heart a little, I guess.

Well, this hardly seems appropriate here, but I was feeling rather humourous when I woke up early this morning. And so, with your indulgence:

An Ode to The Brow

One of the seven wonders
In the world of Screen
To hide it so, what can it mean?
(The other two would steal any scene,
Those eyes so blue of course, I mean)

As though environmental artist Cristo
A Heftytm Bag has planted so
O’er the snowy peak of Mt. Kil’manjaro

Or The Zipper in Times Square
Has been scaffolded for repair
But perhaps this was what you meant
With all that hair?
To conceal from strangers
Each thought and Care?

But history has taught this too shall pass
Though it's broke the heart of this
Silver-haired lass
That you should come to this
Tonsorial morass
With locks of "Brown, Dark A**"

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v377/honeyelf/darkbrown.bmp

honey!

GREAT PICTURE HONEY!!!!!

WERE DID YOU GET THAT ONE?????

HE LOOKS LIKE A REAL MAN,SO SO GOURGES!!!!!! :p :D

SORRY COULDEN`T HELP IT!!!!!


LOVE/WOOD

And here's one to wood from me -- love to you, L!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v236/aquila0212/7459_1024.jpg

ETA: Quite like that new look of Elijah's. Incidentally, that was taken on Christmas Eve, while he was out shopping with Hannah (and Guy from World Without Sundays was supposedly with them too).

Wood, found the picture at A&F. PM me if you don't know how to get there.

Just a reminder to all that the deadline for your submission to our fan-book is fast approaching! Would love to have as many of you as would like, to be included! :)

honey!

from Achila:
Quite like that new look of Elijah's

Me too. Doesn't it remind you of a certain rather gorgeous hobbit? (and no, I don't mean the torn denim :lol: )
Could it be The One Lad really is missing Frodo?

Though I have to say The Hair looked even better when parted and falling over one eye (seen when buying tickets for something somewhere a few weeks ago).

Quite like that new look of Elijah's.

Well, I'm still a little dubious, but I guess you've figured that out by now. :rolleyes: Though it does fall across his beautiful brow (sob! snorfle!) in rather nice waves, doesn't it? Ok, if the Fauxhawk could grow on me then I'll get used to this too. :D

honey!

Wood - So sorry to hear about your Grandmother. This isn't exactly a hug, but I hope it brings you some comfort.

http://www.imagemagician.com/images/blossom/End.JPG

And Honey - this is for you.

FroBoogie (http://www.imagemagician.com/images/blossom/FrolijahBoogie2.gif)

Thanks for all the effort you're putting into compiling Elijah's little book. :) Lovely picture of the One Lad!

My thoughts are with all those directly or indirectly affected by the terrible tragedy in Asia. Special hugs to Ainon. :k

Okay, so, maybe it wasn't for me, but Blossom? That FrolijahBoogie gif is priceless and made my day. Thank you! :D :cool:

So glad that all Faculty members are safe and well. The number of dead from the tsunamis is difficult to grasp. Children orphaned and parents without their children. Too sad.

Santa left under the tree some ArtAsylum LOTR Minimates. My Frodo with the Ring is different (and better) as mine has rather nice, rosy lips.

Check out the eyebrow acting on Twilight Frodo. Even EW action figures know how to emote.
www.toymania.com/toyshows/tf2004/playalong2.shtml

Honeyelf, you are very clever! Blossom, he did look like he was having a good time. didn't he? Hugs to wood for your grandmother.

C4

wood, so sorry to hear that your grandmother has been ill, and about the people from your village who were in southeast Asia. It’s hard to imagine disaster on that scale. And it’s always humbling to be reminded of just how powerful Nature is.

honeyelf: Love your poem (especially your boldness in rhyming “Cristo” and “Kilamanjaro” – Mr. Sondheim would be proud of you!). I, too, have mixed feelings about the new ‘do. I like the style, but the color seems awfully dark, and sort of dull. Not that I would send him away if he stopped by . . . .

Blossom, FrolijahBoogie was great!

Achila: Where did that last “hug" picture come from? (Good shot of wrist and hand. :rolleyes: )

If somebody can get whiteling’s T-shirt design into production, I’ll definitely buy one!

Since my mother has cable, I got to watch Elijah’s SNL appearance again on E!, on Christmas Eve. But it wasn’t the full 90-minute show (which I had seen on Achila’s tape)! Still, they did have the “boys’ choir” segment. When he started yowling “True Colors,” I just lost it. My mother came back to see what was wrong with me, and I really couldn’t explain. As Alyon wrote:
but alas I will have to refrain from exposing myself in any real obvious way—I really can’t expose all my complete geekiness to the uninitiated.

Welcome home, Pelagia -- hope you had a nice holiday! That pic was from the ROTK EE DVD -- I believe it's from "The End of All Things", on Disk 4. Yep -- I agree about Elijah's hair. I do like the style (I have a total "thing" about hair and the more (to play with), the merrier, as far as I'm concerned!) but that "dark *ss brown" is lifeless. His own hair color isn't that much lighter but much richer, because of the reddish highlights.

If this hairstyle is indeed in aid of getting him the Ian Curtis role, we're going to be seeing it for some time, considering that movie isn't slated to film until next summer!

ETA: Our favorite pic site we can't link to, The Bag End Inn, is closing its doors forever after today. Pics will still be available in the archive but who knows for how long. So best to go over there and save pics while you still can, if you haven't yet (and there are lovely new shots from the EE DVD's many features on there now). The proprietress of the BEI has started a new Elijah site -- Beyond Blue (www.beyond-blue.net). This' what she says about Lij, and why she has named this new site thus:

Eljah has grown beyond his impressive resume as a child and teen actor and is establishing himself as a well-respected adult actor in interesting film projects both large and small. Sweeping the world in a role which will be beloved by millions for generations, he has also now cemented himself as an indie performer of note, and an undeniably original personality in a sea of Hollywood sameness: intelligent, opinionated, off-beat and eclectic. While still besotted by the powerful charisma and unique sexiness that has drawn many to him, this site seeks to celebrate the man beyond the expressive blue eyes, beyond Frodo and beyond the borders of former child stardom.

Oh Honeyelf! That photo of Elijah is wonderful. Thanks for finding and posting it (hope he didn't mind the apparently candid shot TOO much). This is the first non-Frodo pic of I've seen of EW where he looks so comfortable with himself - in that he looks like he sounds (in interviews, commentaries etc). Gorgeous! imo, and much more appealing than that cleaner than clean, wet-behind the ears look he's been sporting recently, as if to flout his taking on Frodo.

P.S. Does anyone know if the pre-movie character sketches (particularly, this one of Frodo) were drawn before the actors were chosen for the parts? Also, who drew them?

JUST POPING IN TO SAY THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR
SUPORT!! FOR ALL THE HUGS AND PICTURES!!!! :k :k

I HADE A PHONECALL THIS MORNING FROM MY BIGSISTER
THAT GRANDMOTHER HADE PAST AWAY :( :(

SHE HAS TAKING THE SHIPS FROM THE WHITE SHORES! :(

I FEEL SO EMPTY,BUT COMFORT THAT I HADE THE STRENGHT
TOO SIT BY HER BED FOR FIVE HOURES LAST NIGHT!

AND I KNOW IN SIDE OF ME WERE I FIND THIS STRENGHT!! :(

LOVE YOU ALL VERY MUCH AND I AM GLADE EVERYONE IS OKEY!!!!!!!

LOVE/WOOD

((((wood))))

I'm so sorry for your loss. Be well today.



Honey---yes to the photo. And I vote for the new hair. And I like the color...

Naiad:
Gorgeous! imo

ditto

Another streaming reminder---psst....contribute...to...the...book...(PM Honey by Saturday night).

Oh, ((((Wood)))).
I'm very sorry to hear this news.
Take good care of yourself and I'm sure you'll find the strength to get through this.

http://www.jo-chen.com/img/CG/frodo_sam_sml.jpg
From: http://www.jo-chen.com

To Lena, with love, Ann

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v236/aquila0212/rpassing043.jpg

Thank You Moondancer!!

And Thank You Ann!!!

I Know This Is Not Realy The Place For Sad
Talk But You All Are My Dear Friends And
I Am So Glade I Have You All!!!

Love You All/wood (Lena)

((((((Wood)))))) :k Take care. And know that the love you and your grandmother shared will never fade.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v377/honeyelf/frodonsam.jpg

Lots of great stuff has been finding it's way into my PM box, destined for Elijah's book! Thank you, ladies!

Just want to mention that if you PM me with a contribution and I don't respond right away, it's because my sister is here. She knows I'm a frodophile, and a bit of an elwood geek, but she doesn't know the half of it! ;) I'm just flying low under the radar.

Blossom thank you for "FroBoogie!" :)

Glad you ladies liked my silly poem.

can i brag just a wee little bit? that artwork i posted is by my daughter. she was 16 at the time. of course it's from cirith ungol.

Dear Wood

I wish to pass on my sympathy to you and your family on your Grandmother's passing. It's not easy. (I know how you feel, my mother-in-law passed away in July.) The pain will lessen in time. Know that many people's thoughts are with you at this time.

(((Wood)))


Kumari

DID YOUR DAUGHTER PAINT IT???????

ITS SO BEAUTIFUL!!!!!!!!

THANK YOU FOR CHARING IT,HONEYELF!!!!
:k :k :k

LOVE/WOOD

Wood, I'm so sorry.

Wood, please accept my sympathy. C4

Wood, my daughters and I extend our sympathies to you and your family. We are sorry for your loss.

(((Wood))), my thoughts are with you at the loss of your grandmother. What a gift that you were able to be at her bedside for those hours, even though it must have been very difficult. (And what lovely pictures from everyone.)

P.S. Does anyone know if the pre-movie character sketches (particularly, this one of Frodo) were drawn before the actors were chosen for the parts? Also, who drew them?
Ah, golden oldies, those are. As far as who drew them, all I know is that they're copyrighted by TORN; I haven't seen an artist's name mentioned, but maybe it is somewhere on that site. As far as when, let's just say they were already there when I first visited that site, which was before casting had been announced. The small pics they use as links to the various characters' pages are taken from pre-movie Tolkien-related art (at first glance, I see Lee and Hildebrandt, but I can't place them all). If you look at the way TORN has that part of the site set up, you can see that they take the distinction between "characters" and "cast" very seriously; anything on a character's page is strictly book-canon (for example, Hama gets killed defending the gate at Helm's Deep, not during a warg battle). The only nod to the movies is a small pic of the actor and a link to his or her page in the "cast" section. So I'd be very surprised to see any attempt to make the character sketch look like the actor, even if some of them were drawn after casting for that character took place. Some of the sketches are decidedly different from the actor's appearance.

------------------

A few "site announcements":

Screencaps and commentary are up for "Just a feeling" (http://www.frodolivesin.us/RotK/id42.htm) (the lead-in to Cross-roads of the Fallen King, which has been a major source of discussion in the RotK-EE thread in the Trilogy Forum). In order to get that published before going to my mom's, I had to take down Shelob's Lair, but she'll be going back up by mid-month [Shelob, not my mom :rolleyes: ]. She's gotten so big she needs her own subdirectory, and I just don't have time for that right now. There's nothing new there at this point, anyway.

Although the amazon.com affiliation hasn't made many sales, it's serving a bit of a purpose now, since amazon's jumped into fundraising for the tsunami disaster relief. I've put their donation box on the home page, main JRRT page, main EJW page, and the guest book page on http://www.frodolivesin.us/. The donation goes to the Red Cross, and you have to trust their judgment if you donate--100% of every donation goes to the Red Cross Disaster Fund, but the Red Cross doesn't promise which disaster which money will get used for; they'll use it where they think it's most needed. With the enormity of the tsunami disaster, I'd think there's a good bet that that's where the bulk of the donations will go. (Can someone please tell me I'm not the only person who's had special effects shots from Deep Impact going through her mind lately? :( )

-----------

ETA: I knew there was something else of a "commercial" nature I was going to mention. :) I brought up the t-shirt/CafePress idea in the Tests and Suggestions forum, and someone said that, in California, at least, and probably other places, an actor's image is considered to belong to him, so even an original drawing such as Whiteling's could be in a copyright "gray area." Someone who's worked with CafePress said that the company (understandably) is even more cautious than required by law when it comes to accepting any material that would be questionable as to copyright; the hassle of even possible lawsuits is just too much, since they deal with these products constantly. The upshot being that if the t-shirt were to become "real," it would probably be better for a group/person to do it privately than through something like CafePress. Not necessarily out of fear of "getting caught," but because CafePress would probably refuse it (or initially agree and then shut it down, which they've done before).

----------

I'll be at my mom's for a couple of days. Hope everyone has a good rest-of-week. :)

JUST POP IN TOO SAY THIS!!

I AM TOTALY OVER WHELMED BY ALL WONDERFUL PICTURES
WARM AND KIND WORDS THOUGHTS AND HUGS!!!!! :k

I AM LOST ¨FOR WORDS!! IT WARMS MY HEART SO ´MUCH!!!!!!!!
:k :k :k :k

THANK YOU ALL!!!!!!!! :k :k :k

WONDERFUL SCREENCAPS AS USUAL TG!! THANKS!!

HAVE A SAFE TRIP TOO YOUR MOM`S!!!! AND A VERY HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!!!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v399/erendil/we03.jpg

here is another thing that makes me feel better !!!!! hope every one is sitting
stady in there chairs so you won`t fall down!!!!! :lol:


LOVE YOU ALL/WOOD

(((Wood))) - I'm hugging you tightly... I'll light a candle for your grandmother and you :k .

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0903/whiteling/Sonnenuntergang.jpg


-----------


Honeyelf, your daughter is talented... isn't there a saying, something like "a chip off the old block"?? Way to go! :cool:



I brought up the t-shirt/CafePress idea in the Tests and Suggestions forum, and someone said that, in California, at least, and probably other places, an actor's image is considered to belong to him, so even an original drawing such as Whiteling's could be in a copyright "gray area." Someone who's worked with CafePress said that the company (understandably) is even more cautious than required by law when it comes to accepting any material that would be questionable as to copyright; the hassle of even possible lawsuits is just too much, since they deal with these products constantly. The upshot being that if the t-shirt were to become "real," it would probably be better for a group/person to do it privately than through something like CafePress.


Thanks, Tg, for digging deeper into this matter :) . I don't know it for California, but here in Germany I own the copyright on my drawings - it could be done even in photorealistic manner (indistinguishable from the original screencap, that is) and I could it print on so many t-shirts just as I like. The real "grey area" starts with the name "Frodo" on it. I don't know how far my design draft there clashes with the copyright on this name. That depends on the country and the respective circumstances.

If you guys are interested in getting an "original Whiteling's design" t-shirt ( :D ) I could send you the draft via email (300 dpi) and you go to your local print-shop and have it there printed on a t-shirt (that *should* work, but I have to admit that I've never tried it out. I have no idea if the outcome is a looker :o .) Alas, no money for Moggy :eek: - and alas, no money for me :p - that goes without saying, that you, my friends can have it for free, any time. :k
(Please PM me, and don't worry if I'm not responding immediately, I'm currently in the final spurt of painting and renovating my old flat, pant, pant)

Tg - Thanks for the chronology info re: those TORN images. I thought as much (that they pre-dated most if not all casting). Which is why I've always been amazed that they found someone who expresses Frodo just as he appears in that hauntingly lovely sketch.

Wood - You're wonderful to find and post that beautiful profile shot! Thank you!
My deepest sympathy for your grandmother's passing.

Whiteling - Did a double take upon seeing the Chekhov quote in your sig! It's one of my favorites. I included it in Christmas cards and once said it for a Christmas day toast!

Lena
My deepest sympathy on the passing of your grandmother
Know that my thoughts and love are with you

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v480/ylla/2f050630.jpg


(((Lena and Family)))

DID YOUR DAUGHTER PAINT IT??????? Wood, my daughter tells me she colored that one on the computer, after she hand drew and scanned it. Sometimes she uses felt tips, and colored pencil.

Whtieling, I love your t-shirt idea, and would love to have one, but I'm hard pressed to imagine where I would wear such an item. Unless we were to have a Faculty moot at some point? Oh please? Someday? :z:

I just thought I'd let you all know what my plans are for the book.

It will have three sections. One for art, one for humor, and one for all your lovely writings. Alyon's daughter may contribute an original song she wrote for her mom a year ago Christmas; if so I'll include an MP3 disc in a little pocket in the book cover. It's really funny, and her delivery is fantastic! ZK, I'd be happy to include a version of your song on MP3, too! You game? :D

I'd like to include country of origin along with your first names (except those who have requested to stay Anonymous.) I want to make sure I've got those right, so please check the list below. YOu only need to let me know if I've got you in the wrong part of the world.

Blossom - The UK
Ylla - Massachussets
C4 - Pennysylvania
Moondancer - Belgium
Whiteling - Germany
Wood - Sweden
Serena - The UK
TG - Ohio?
Kumari - Western Australia
ZKGrumpy - Washington DC

Again, you only need let me know if I've got you in the wrong place, or you don't want your location disclosed at all.

I feel like the book needs a written intro, as I'd like to let EW know how this group of fascinating, passionate, mature, articulate wonderfully witty ;) women came to be. As unlikely as it is that he'd end up looking up "The Faculty" on the 'net, I'd rather not identify us as such, because I realize we all wish to maintain our dignity (what's left of it!;)). I'm trying to say that I'll be working on that intro. Will post a version of it for you ladies to take aim at, with all the trout you can throw, soonish.

You ladies are the best. And I really missed popping in here the last couple days!

hugs,
honey!

I THINK YOU ARE THE BEST,HONEY!!!
MAKING THIS BOOK AND ALL!!!!! :k :k :k

AND I AGREE, I LOVE TOO HAVE A T-SHIRT TOO
AND WEREING IT ON OUR MOOT!!!!!!PLEASE LET US
HAVE ONE REAL SOON I SO WANT TOO MEAT YOU ALL!!!! :z: :z: :z:

I CAN WERE MY IN BED , OH MY WHAT DREAMS CAN COME OUT OF THAT!!?? :p :D :cool :lol:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v399/erendil/ddhdsc01.jpg

even this man thinks that is funny!!!!

LOVE YOU ALL/WOOD

AND AGAIN THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR KIND WORDS!!! :k :k

Dear Wood
My grandaughter Joelle wanted to send you this picture from my Photobucket as a warm hug from her :k :z:






http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v480/ylla/radioflyer004.jpg

YLLA!!! TELL JOELLE THANK YOU AND GIVE HER A BIG WARM HUG
FROM ME!!!! (and tell her i am thinking of her)!!!!!! :k :k

LOVE/WOOD

Hi, everyone!

I haven't begun to catch up, just the last 2 pages only. But I'm home and I'm well, and hope to be able to enjoy more of your wonderful conversation soon.

Wood, my sincere sympathy for your loss. Here's a belated hug.

Can someone please tell me I'm not the only person who's had special effects shots from Deep Impact going through her mind lately?
You are not the only person who's had special effects shots from Deep Impact going through her mind. Even more than that video I'm sure we've all seen, of the wave coming in to the hotel courtyard, was a simulation showing the tsunami hitting the shore. I just cringed with horror. That is why I don't normally watch "disaster" movies. When a real-life event happens, and it is so devastating and so horrible, I can't understand how people can view something like that as entertainment. I'm probably too sensitive. In any case, I'll be sending a little relief to help out, in my small way.

On a happier note, Blossom, you made my day. The first instant I saw that "web boogie" bit on the EE (and I was fortunate enough to be seeing it with other LOTR fans, yea!), I gave a great crack of laughter and announced, "I can't wait until somebody gifs this." I watched the web anxiously, but never a gif did I see, until your wonderful creation. Thank you, dear. *bows gratefully*

Honey, now that I have my brain back, what is the closing date for your book contributions? I'll see if I can find anything that is appropriate. Cheers!

I too have been seeing those huge Deep Impact waves rampaging over all. I need to go turn on a news channel and look at pictures of the actual tsunami I think, because until now I've only read about it in the paper, or listened to NPR. I don't wan't to have the larger than life DI waves always be the visual I have for a disaster that took the lives of real people.

Mariole, and the rest of you, I'll leave a few pages in reserve for last minute submissions until January 9th. I think it should be an easy enough thing to add them. Buf if you plan to contribute something January 1st would be a better deadline. Mostly I don't want to leave anyone out who wishes to be included! :k

honey!

ZK, I'd be happy to include a version of your song on MP3, too! You game?

la-la-la-LA-la-la-la...
:eek: No, dear. But there's a bunch of files out there that play "Lydia the Tattooed Lady" without the words; you could give him one of those.

I think that what (someone) wrote about mature, sophisticated, brilliant, eloquent, thoughtful, etc. etc. wimmenfolks would make a very good intro, actually.

I agree about disaster movies - I don't like them. Reality can be harsh enough, as we've seen over the past few days. It's hard to comprehend from images on a TV screen the magnitude of that disaster.

Back to work. :::: sigh ::::

~grumpy (do we get to see this book?)

Dear Colleagues!

RL has had me under its thumb for much of the past two months, so I have hardly had time to stop by. But I *had* to drop in and wish you all a happy and safe 2005.

Hugs to all,
pw

HAPPY NEW YEAR TO YOU TOO PEACEWEAVER!!! :k :k

I WONDER THAT TO GRUMPY,IS IT POSSIBLE FOR AS TOO SEE
THE BOOK TO ELIJAH??

AND I AGREE THAT WOULDE BEE A GREAT INTRO!!!!!!


WOOD

A couple of pics from the last issue of the LOTR fanclub mag I thought you might enjoy. Should we call this first one a "half Frolijah"?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v236/aquila0212/frodofanclubmag2.jpg


And this' a variation on a photo we all know and love (eyelashes!):

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v236/aquila0212/f5988859.jpg

Enjoy, and Happy '05, everyone! x0x0x0x

Achilla, thank your for those lovely pictures! Eyelashes indeed! Love the "half-fro," which I suppose makes the other one "SamSamwise?" :confused:

(do we get to see this book?)

I plan to take extensive pictures. When I get back from ORC, (and have managed to refrain from floating at the ceiling long enough ;) ), my daughter will help me make a small, password protected web-site! :cool: That may take some time though, so I'll post pictures here as well.

honey!

ETA: I've been working on the intro for the book. Take a look, and let me know if anything needs changed:

Elijah, this little book comes to you representing a small group of fans that has formed on the Internet. Some of us are still “tweeners,” a few of us have attained that “adventurous” age, and the rest fall somewhere between. We are sprinkled around the globe, with members in the United States, Australia, Europe, the United Kingdom, and Asia! Among our number we can count actresses, artists, members of the clergy, historians, medical professionals, writers, mothers, wives, and just proud geeks! We are sophisticated and silly, witty and wise, funny and foolish!

Some of us have been together since the filming of The Lord of the Rings – and your casting was announced, but new fans join the discussion with surprising frequency. Some of us have been fans of your work for years. One member first saw your Frodo potential when you were playing Huck Finn! Another had seen you as McPhee Broadman in “The True Test” and was so convinced her that you were that bratty monster that she swore off your movies until a friend took her to see “Return of the King!” Many of us had long loved Frodo while, for others, you were their introduction to Middle Earth. Now we are all eagerly anticipating Matt, Jonathan, Kevin, and Mumbles!

In the past years we have discussed any number of fascinating topics, micro-expressions, art, history, Jungian theories, and religion among others. But we’ve also become a community of friends, supporting one another through illnesses, the loss of loved ones, and even recently worrying about our Malaysian friend after the tsunami (thankfully she’s fine.) Many of us have traveled miles to meet one another, and maintain close friendships through frequent e-mails.

All of us are drawn to your artistry, your grace, your uniqueness, and your geeky charm. And we are grateful that, because of your Frodo, we can now count friends around the world!

With fond best wishes,
Your Fans

Honeyelf you are a genius!!!!! :k

I think it sounds great!!!!!

I wish i coulde be with you when you give
Elijah the book!!!

I realy hope he will read it,do you think he
will do that??

Thanks for posting those pictures Achila!!!
Eyelashes, mmmmmmm well maybe i shoulde
stop right here!! :D :p

And i want too wish you all my dear dear friends a
HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!!!!! :k :k :k

Hope i will met you all 2005!!!

love /wood

Ohhh Honey
That is a wonderful intro...absolutely perfect :k

Are any of Whiteling's works included in this book?
I do believe this is one of hers:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v480/ylla/0130d5e0.jpg




And in my opinion magnificent....you HAVE to give him that one!!!

Thanks Honey for all your dedication to this book...I'm sure he will appreciate it. Your intro is very classy and doesn't feel fan-girly...that's the one thing I wouldn't want to be a part of...this is truly a momento that I think will "touch" him and I'm proud to be a part of it :)

wood, I’m very sorry to hear about your grandmother. I still don’t know how to post pictures, but here’s a hug :k and all my sympathy.

tgshaw: What a good idea to put the donation box on your website. As for news footage of disasters vs. disaster movies: what has always struck me, when watching film of the real thing (be it tsunamis, or planes crashing into the World Trade Center) is how fast it all happens. In a movie, the disaster is usually strung out over many minutes, with all the editing and different camera angles. And of course, the movie’s impact is usually bolstered by some dramatic music. In real life, what you have is just all this water rushing in and engulfing people; or a plane just smacking into a building. It’s not edited, and there’s no “soundtrack;” and that somehow adds to the horror.

On to more frivolous matters:

I finally got my RotK EE! I’ve looked at several appendices (I assume that everyone has noticed the still of Elijah with surfboard??), and watched the Disc 1 Easter egg a few more times. I keep trying to figure out at exactly what point Elijah begins to suspect that this is a gag. And after Dom reveals his identity, doesn’t EJW say, “I knew it was you”? (It’s hard to tell, because so much of his language is bleeped in that section.)

Achila: I did find the “hug” picture that you posted. It’s actually in “Cameras in Middle-Earth,” IIRC. That’s a really touching bit, where PJ keeps having Elijah redo the “Red Book” scene, as if (as Dominic remarks) he just doesn’t want the whole thing to end. And, of course, the two of them hugging and crying nearly had me sniffling.

The funniest thing in “Cameras” has to be Billy Boyd’s description of being kissed by Viggo, while watching the filming of Sam and Rosie’s wedding!

Well, I have to give the Bag End Inn woman credit for her description of Elijah (posted by Achila):
an undeniably original personality in a sea of Hollywood sameness: intelligent, opinionated, off-beat and eclectic
Isn’t that why so many of us adore him, even apart from his talent and looks? As ylla likes to say, it’s the whole “package.”

BTW, a few indications that I may have been suffering serious withdrawal symptoms while away from The Faculty Lounge over the Christmas holidays:

#1 – While glancing through the table of contents of my mother’s TV Guide, I noticed the words “Sin City” in the title of an article. I frantically paged to the article, only to find that it was about the show CSI. Major disappointment.

#2 – I dreamed about a SNL LotR sketch in which some very tall actor (playing Boromir) was holding the Ring high over his head, while Elijah (playing Frodo) was leaping up and down trying to grab it. I woke up laughing from this one.

Wood - I read that you have lost your grandmother. I am sorry for you and your family. I hope you will be comforted knowing so many people here at KD think of you and have expressed their empathy. "I will not say "Do not cry..."

Honeyelf - the introduction is lovely!

I just wanted to come here now to say Happy New Year, even though this year has ended at such a low point for humanity. At the same time it is important to take in all the acts of generosity and willingness to help that we see happening all over the world. There is a lot of hope for us all!

For me this has been the year I got drawn in to the world of Middle Earth and of Elijah fandom, so I am very happy about that, and especially of having found my way here. Hugs to everyone -posters, lurkers and the One Lad! :k

thanks pelagia and thanks J
for your kind words!! :k

like i sad before i am totally spechles
for all the kind words and hugs and pioctures
i realy feel like i have come home!!!!
and that i am with true friends!!

Happy new year to you all!!

love/wood

Bravo, Honey! Your introduction is very very well done, and I think you are a perfect spokeswoman for all us Faculty ladies!

We are sophisticated and silly, witty and wise, funny and foolish!
YESSS! That's it! What an apt Faculty slogan :cool:



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0903/whiteling/lotr_bilbo_frodo.jpg

Together with the Bagginses I wish you a HAPPY NEW YEAR!
Eandme, you are SO right - may we turn our attention to a lot of hope for us all :k !

For Lena:

http://www.imagemagician.com/images/blossom/3Frodos.jpg

I'm so sorry to hear your sad news. :k

Honey. I love your introduction for Elijah's little book. So appropiate for the Faculty, I think. :)

Thanks all for the kind comments on the FrodoBoogie gif. He's great, isn't he? Mariole - I'm glad to hear you're feeling better. It's so nice to see you back in here again.

Lovley pictures, Achila. I think that's the first time I've seen Elijah in Frodo costume without the hair!

Thinking of you, Ainon.

HAPPY NEW YEAR to you all. :)

HAPPY NEW YEAR TO YOU ALL !!!

Honey
Your introduction is just FAB !!! :D...How could he possibly resist that ? I will be SO looking forward to seeing your website with all the featured stuff from all the talented people in here !!
( What are you going to say if he asks what website is it that we all post on ? )

Now then...Adam has just invested in a new DVD player for our computer, and you know what that means !!! ;) :rolleyes:
Yes...MORE screencapping ability for the Faculty and the Harem....
Any requests for particular still scenes in the form of a bmp, will be accepted, not that we're short of a few screencappers in here, that is !

Before I rush out again...
Wood
I am so sorry that you have lost a well-loved Grandmother.....I know what it is to lose a close member of the family, and it is never easy to get over...

For anyone else who is shocked to the core at the overwhelmingly devestating earthquake/tsunami disaster in the Indian Ocean region, here is the Google link to all the official aid agencies who are collecting....

Tsunami Relief (http://www.google.com/tsunami_relief.html)

Happy new year to all!

naiad

Hi Everyone!!!!!!!!

The Clock Is Now 00.08!!!!

Happy New Year 2005!!!!!!!!!!!

I Hope You Will Have A Wonderful New Year!!

With Lots Of New Elijah Stuff!!!!


Love You All Very Much/wood

Of 291 Top Ten critics lists of the best movies of 2004, Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind appeared on 163, and was #1 on 34. The only film that did better was Sideways. Therefore, that made ESOTSM the #2 film of the year, according to critics.

Speechless! Happy New Year to us! :lol:

Happy New Year, everyone!

And big "happy bursts" for all the good word Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind is getting! I already did one happy dance today, finding that both of NPRs film critics had chosen if for their best film of the year! Yay!

honey!

Achila, great news on ESOTSM--thanks! Sideways sounds as if it's another "little, quirky" movie. I saw the lead actor interviewed, and he was dumbfounded about the attention it's gotten, so I'm happy for those folks, too. :)

Honey--It's Nebraska (Omaha), not Ohio ;) . But I'm really from Iowa, will probably end up back there at some point in the future, and live just a couple of miles west of the Missouri even now, so you can tell Elijah there's a fellow Iowan in the bunch if you want. :p

FWIW--the guy at badastronomy.com says that most disaster movies, including Deep Impact, err on the side of showing things less horrible than they would be in the real world. He did say DI was more realistic than most, but that in reality Leo and Sarah wouldn't have survived.

Happy New Year to everyone, with a hope for peaceful waters ahead.

http://www.imagemagician.com/images/tgshaw/off topic/www_pics_am-religion1053-crop.jpg

A Happy, Healthy, and Peaceful New Year to All The Faculty! C4

(My half a glass of merlot last night has produced a nice headache. I'm more of a lightweight than Orlando Bloom. :rolleyes: )

Re - Eternal Sunshine Of The Spotless Mind:

On our UK TV programme 'Film 2004,' ESOTSM was voted as the number 2 favourite film of the year by the British pulic.

Number 1?

'Return Of The King,' of course!

So the One Lad is doing OK! :)

Ceefour - only half a glass of Merlot? :rolleyes: As Dom said somewhere in the extras: 'Even Elijah can beat Orlando at drinking!' I hope your head has at least cleared by now. :)

Our dear Alyon has experienced monitor "death," and can't be with us until she gets that resolved. She e-mailed me from a friends house, but is far to discreet to peak in on the Faculty there! She must have burned up her monitor looking at pretty hobbits! ;)

Someone asked me what I'd say if asked "what web-site?" Just out of curiousity I did a search on "faculty lounge." The first link was for a fan-site for "The Faculty," an odd little sci-fi horror flick, it seems. ;) There were the expected links to school pages. One link was to "Quilt University" which amused me because, besides being an EJW appreciator, I'm also a quilter (Funny that the acronym "UFO" has meanings for both my major obsessions; sometimes it just means "un-finished object." For the other meaning see my sig-line. ;) ) There is an Alan Rickman fan-page called "The Faculty Lounge," too. (And even a link for "penis enlargement;" :confused: I didn't investigate that one. :rolleyes: ) You finally get to us, via TG's Frodolivesin.us Glossary, on page 26.

But I still won't tell him where to find us, partly because who knows what folks get up to in the "Faculty" movie fan site? :rolleyes: For want of inspiration to strike between now, and any possible chance that he would even ask, I think I'll just smile mysteriously. ;)

In a funny, but not un-precented bit of Faculty synchronicity, Mariole's letter parallels my intro note heavily. So I'll re-write the intro, and post it here soon.

C4, I'm sorry for your head. Beyond an occassional glass of wine, I'm not a drinker, and I always love New Year's day, because I feel like I have practically the whole world to myself, and my family. It's so quiet! :)

I also wanted to say that you ladies have sent some wonderful stuff for inclusion in the book. Everytime one of you sent a letter I loved, another one would come along that took things from a whole different perspective, and was equally wonderful. More than once I have been moved to laughter, or tears! You ladies ROCK!
hugs,
honey!

Sorry, Honey! It was a true case of synchronicity, honest! I wrote my letter the night before, and sent if off while Honey was crafting her intro page. As they say, "Great minds think alike." :) It was mostly a thank-you letter to Elijah. I wanted him to know that I think he rocks. :p So there's bound to be some similarity, I guess!

I can't wait for the DVD CoF next year. I hope they have some commentary on it! But it's a darned fun movie. I might even watch Sin City, if I have someone to hold my hand. (I don't like gory movies.) But good news about ESOTSM. That was a truly enjoyable flick.

GREAT NEWS ABOUT ETERNAL!!!!

I HOPE THE OTHER MOVIES HAS THE SAME LUCK!!!!! :z:
OUR MAN IS REALY DOING OKEY! I AM SO GLADE FOR HIM!!!!! :k


LOVE YOU ALL/WOOD

Happy New Year to everyone! I’m really looking forward to 2005, what with three new Elijah films (assuming that they all get picked up for distribution here in the US), and Chain of Fools on DVD, and whatever the Faculty members get up to. And isn’t Howard Shore supposed to be coming out with a 9- or 10-CD version of the LotR score (including the “symphony”)? Not to mention quitting my job. [ :D dances around ecstatically at the prospect of being a free woman for a while]

Thanks to Achila and Blossom for the news on the well deserved recognition that ESOTSM is receiving. I was afraid that it might be overlooked, since it was released so early last year, and is definitely not mainstream. I’m hoping for an Oscar nomination for Kate Winslet, at least.

tgshaw: Sideways is indeed “another ‘little, quirky’ movie.” It was one of my favorites of this year, right up there with ESOTSM , Garden State, and the truly bizarre I [heart] Huckabee’s. It (Sideways) has wonderful characters, minimal plot, and great dialogue. Warning: watching all that wine being downed can lead to acute thirst.

Pelagia, according to postings over at TORN, the complete soundtrack will be released sometime in the 4th quarter of 2005 :D :z: , possibly 4th quarter of 2006 :( .

Lots of EW goodies in 2005! Very good news about ESOTSM. I was only able to watch it once on DVD, with many interruptions, but enjoyed it immensely. There was discussion by many fans at the time of not liking EW's character (had just started lurking), but I felt badly for him. The other characters didn't bother to hide their dislike, and were openly rude to him. He just seemed like he wanted friends, but had no idea how to go about it and, consequently, made some rather bizarre choices.

I have recovered from my "hangover." Once I drank TWO glasses of wine :eek: . I recall begging Mr. ceefour to "Make it stop!" as the room kept spinning wildly.

ETA- Honeyelf, out of curiousity, I googled "The Faculty Lounge" and we came up on the 2nd page. C4

Our dear Alyon has experienced monitor "death," and can't be with us until she gets that resolved. She e-mailed me from a friends house, but is far to discreet to peak in on the Faculty there! She must have burned up her monitor looking at pretty hobbits!


Alas, Honey!! You are right!! Pretty hobbits, indeed, have to be responsible for my recent troubles. A lesson to us all...but alas again, I don't seem to be able to give them up. To kick the habbit. To lesson my hobbit intake.

But I'm back!! A friend brought over a loaner monitor. So Happy New Year to all my dear Faculty colleagues. I missed you!

Honey, I love the intro. It's perfect. :cool:

I still have company from England visiting. Though I've not mentioned to her just WHY I'm going to California soon--you know, to see me dear friend called "HoneyElf" ;) ---I haven't totally been without my hobbits. She hasn't the DVD's and came with a mission to see all of the EE editions and specials. I wasn't counting on that. But who am I to complain? :z:

Instead of going to a party on New Year's Eve--her choice was to start in on the Fellowship--movie and specials. She told me at the beginning that she wasn't sure what she thought of Frodo (she had seen it in theaters only). She didn't dislike him--just wasn't sure. It seems it's Aragorn who she fancies. But at least at the end of The Fellowship she looked at me and said "He is excellent, isn't he?" (We're talking Elijah here). She said "I can't quite personally connect with him, but he IS excellent."
Which was good enough for me. I couldn't sit through all the movies with her if she was going to be disdainful or anything. It really is good to go back and see those earlier specials after having more full movie perspective. Even when I don't agree with some of the changes PJ makes, it is so comforting to know how much thought he and the others put into their decisions--and how well-versed they became in all of Tolkien's middle-earth writings. They made thoughtful decisions based on real knowledge.

oh yeah--I also like seeing Elijah in those old rehearsal shots---for instance the sword fighting training--Elijah with his longer hair brushed over his forhead--looking so lithe and vibrant...

Enough of that! I already lost one monitor to pretty hobbits. :)

Glad to see you back Mariole, Peaceweaver and Naiad--oh and Lady Wendy and Eandme and I guess everybody.... :D

(((Faculty))) :k

Dear ladies!
Happy New Year to you all! :k

HAPPY NEW YEAR TO YOU TOO RIKKA!!!!

NICE TO HEAR FROM YOU AGAIN!!!! :k :k

LOVE/WOOD

Thank you (((Wood))), dear! I just came back from countryside, from New Year holidays...
I was sad to know about your granny. :(


Finally I managed to get my ROTK SEE (the last here, as usual - Russian release was only at Dec. 28 :rolleyes: ) and had a lot of pleasure watching it. I love this long version of ROTK more than I loved the theatrical one - everything is at right place now and the movie is well balanced.

I was so pleased by additions to the Eastern/Mordor part of the story - I absolutely love EW in every new shot there! Especialy in Mordor, after Sam and Frodo escaped from orc band and are on the way to volcano - when Frodo falls down and says to Sam he can not manage the Ring... such a heartbreaking acting from EW!

Wow, Alyon and Rikka both! *does bunnyhop of welcome*

I have a good feeling about 2005. *spreads happy vibes*

at the end of The Fellowship she looked at me and said "He is excellent, isn't he?"
That's how it started for me. True love developed slowly. Or, as Mr. Darcy said, "I cannot fix on the hour, or the spot, or the look, or the words, which laid the foundation. It is too long ago. I was in the middle before I knew that I had begun."

That is how my appreciation developed. And I'm so very glad it did. I've had numerous hours of enjoyment, thanks to that lad!

Pelagia, I'm envying your freedom. (mopes at having to work) I hope it's a good move for you! Best wishes.

Happy New Year, Rikka, Alyon, Mariole, Ceefour, Wood... :k - glad to be with you!
And I keep forgetting - thank you, Blossom for Frodo-Boogie! Loved it! :cool: And Achila, those pictures... mmmh :k


Well, dear colleagues, I was browsing through the "old" Faculty Lounge thread and found this:
on 29th March 2003 Goldenberry (post #2482) commented:
Alas, Sheryl, all I know about 'Dayo' is what I read about it on Elijah's now-defunct "official" website almost two years ago. There were a few very cute pictures of him with Delta Burke, and a brief story background. He played Delta's imaginary childhood friend, IIRC.

Anyone who can unearth that little gem deserves the Faculty Researcher of the Year award.

Mhm. So, where's my medal? --- I'm waiting... *taps impatiently with foot on ground* --- mhmmm?? ...*taps, looks at calender* -- oh damned, I'm 3 days too late :eek: ! Bummer :( :rolleyes: :D :lol:

HAPPY NEW YEAR TO YOU TOO WHITELING!!! :k :k :k

I`M GLADE MORE AND MORE OF YOU IS RETURNING FROM YOUR HOLLIDAY!!!
:k :k :k

I HOPE ALL OF YOU WILL HAVE THE BEST 2005 WITH ALL NEW ELIJAH STUFF!!! :p :D

AND YOU LUCKY THING ,HONEYELF AND ALYON ARE GOING TO SEE
MR.GOURGES IN REAL LIFE!!

IS THERE ANY ROOM FOR ONE MORE IN YOUR BAG??? :z: :z:

I REALY HOPE WE ARE GOING TO SEE SOME PICTURES,OR ARE YOU LADIES GOING TO KEEP THEM FOR YOUR SELF??? :eek: :eek:

JUST KIDDING!!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

LOVE YOU ALL/WOOD

...I'm 3 days too late :eek: ! Bummer :( :rolleyes: :D :lol:
One year and three days--that was posted in 2003 ;) . Not that you don't deserve a medal, anyway :) ! But remember everyone--the hunt is still on for the original non-dubbed version!

Happy new year and :k :k to everyone who's checked in! And that's about all I have time for. :(

Happy New Year to all, but also, Happy 113th Birthday to our venerable Professor Tolkien!

Happy 113th Birthday to our venerable Professor Tolkien!
Hear, hear! *busts open the champagne ... starts dancing with Frodo* :p

http://home.ricochet.com/mdes/limages/beer.jpg

ceefour: Thanks for the information on possible release dates for the extended LotR soundtrack. What a long time we have to wait! It would be nice if it came out in Q4 2005, since there won’t be any more EE DVDs to look forward to (sniff).

About Patrick in ESOTSM, ceefour wrote:
The other characters didn't bother to hide their dislike, and were openly rude to him. He just seemed like he wanted friends, but had no idea how to go about it and, consequently, made some rather bizarre choices.
Yes, there’s more to Patrick than meets the eye. My own first reaction to him was very negative (along the lines of “What a creep!”); but when I saw the movie again, on DVD, I was more sympathetic. He really is completely inept, socially; and those clothes, and that haircut! I still think that the only point when we see the real Patrick (as opposed to the hopelessly unsuccessful wannabe-cool persona) is when he watches Clementine open the gift that Joel had bought for her. Just for a moment, his guard seems to be down, and he seems to be looking at her with real feeling. But that doesn’t last, of course.

Mariole wrote:
That's how it started for me. True love developed slowly. Or, as Mr. Darcy said, "I cannot fix on the hour, or the spot, or the look, or the words, which laid the foundation. It is too long ago. I was in the middle before I knew that I had begun."
That was my experience, too! (And what a good Austen quote.) The turning point, for me, was when I realized that one of my main reasons for going to see ESOTSM was because Elijah was in it. “Uh-oh,” I thought; “I better go back and take another look at Frodo. I think something is going on here.” Little did I know. . . .

Hey ladies! Still plenty of time to get something in to the book! I'm running behind as usual.

I've been watching/listening to the PJ/Walsh/Boyens commentary track. Been hoping to hear PJ praise Elijah to the heavens; can never get enough of hearing that sort of thing for some reason. So far nothing, though PJ has had praise for Andy S. and John Noble. Other than that, there's been lots of justification for script changes. The three of them went on AT LENGTH about the "sending Sam home" scene. It was for "dramatic tension," and because it wasn't "believable" that Gollum wouldn't have succeeded in causing a rift between Frodo and Sam. And because it added a nice little surprise for the viewers who knew the books, left 'em wondering what else they'd change! :rolleyes: I had to quit listening for a while after that. I'm still choosing to subsribe to my husband's theory which says that Frodo might have sent Sam home because he was worried that the Ring was affecting Sam.

Am saving the actors' commentary for "afters." :D

Can't wait to see what Elijah-goodness 2005 holds.

Have noticed that my favorite part of going to the movies lately is watching the movie trailers for upcoming movies. I always hope that there'll be a trailer for something good, something I've been looking forward to. Got so excited the other day when there was a trailer with penguins in it; alas it was not our penguin! :( (though that movie is not even expected until 2006, if at all!)

honey!

Well, if I needed any more evidence of how stressed out I am right now... :( I've never forgotten Tolkien's birthday, but didn't even think of it this year til it was brought up here. So in atonement for forgetting to "raise a glass to the Professor" earlier, how about if I raise four mugs instead :) :

http://www.frodolivesin.us/RotK/52d20510.jpg

But thanks for the reminder!

Yes, there’s more to Patrick than meets the eye. My own first reaction to him was very negative (along the lines of “What a creep!”); but when I saw the movie again, on DVD, I was more sympathetic.
During an interview of Elijah's that I saw while he was promoting ESOTSM (on the Today Show, IIRC, so actually an interview as opposed to what happens on some of the late night talk shows), the interviewer started talking about what a creep Patrick was, and Elijah defended him, saying you had to understand why he was the way he was. IMHO that's part of what makes Elijah able to become his characters so convincingly. It's an old fiction-writing truism that if you want to keep your audience in "suspended disbelief," even your insane villains need to act in ways that make perfect sense to them. I'm very glad Elijah didn't have to spend two years "being" Kevin :eek: ! [BTW, 2-disc collector's edition of ESOTSM is scheduled to be released tomorrow.]

Honey--Something I did appreciate hearing during the writers' commentary on Frodo sending Sam home was their saying that they felt one thing behind it was Frodo being worried that Sam would endanger the quest through his escalating confrontations with Gollum. IMHO, that goes together with Frodo being worried about Sam's welfare, because both are based on fear that Sam's being affected by the Ring. I tend to feel that that whole part of the storyline is affected more by how different movie-Sam is from the book character than by how different movie-Frodo is. In the book, Sam has many of the same problems with Gollum that he does in the movie, but book-Sam trusts Frodo to know what he's doing.

I think the scene just after Sam overhears the Gollum/Smeagol conversation is interesting. He tells Frodo that he's on his side, but when Frodo asks Sam to trust him, Sam doesn't respond. Gollum's wicked grin at Sam says that he thinks he's tricked Frodo, but I don't think he really has--Frodo just knows how much he needs him as a guide. But instead of responding to Frodo, Sam reacts to Gollum.

My guess is that a lot of this alteration is from the effort to put Sam and Frodo on a more equal footing, rather than the book's master and servant relationship with Sam having Frodo on a pedestal. Movie-Sam says out loud a lot of what book-Sam thinks, and I don't really have a problem with that. But the violence against Gollum just puts it over the top for me--even when Frodo's wishes weren't a factor, book-Sam didn't act that way, starting with how loosely he tied the rope around Gollum's ankle when he's first captured.

Has movie-Sam's more physically violent reaction to Gollum than book-Sam's been addressed in any commentaries? I don't recall any mention.

Tg, do you remember what EW's response was to why Patrick was the way he was?

Honeyelf, sometimes I think PJ and company "got Frodo right" in the end in spite of themselves! This is from someone who really loves these movies (with just a little quibble here and there).

I was listening to TTT soundtrack today (now there's a surprise :rolleyes: )and the end lyric's to Gollum's Song reminded me of the Crossroads scene and Frodo's feeling that he's not coming back. There is a shift in pronouns at the end of the song from "We" (which I take to mean Smeagol/Gollum), to "you," and it seemed that Gollum could be talking to Frodo, "And you will weep, to be so alone. You are lost, you can never go home." Am I being...overly attentive to detail again? C4

Ceefour, I think the shift in pronouns is very deliberate and I agree it is the emotional payoff of the song, but I put it down to Gollum's admitting (albeit to himself alone) that he is about to betray Frodo, who will now be "lost" and "never go home."

I am afraid I still hold to my view that Frodo always knew he wasn't coming back--certainly even film Frodo knew it from the scene on the shore at the close of FOTR--and that the EE line he has in the Crossroads scene is an anomaly, one of those inexplicable PJ plot screw-ups, that messes with all the groundwork laid in the opening moments of ROTK (where it so delicately shown that Frodo knows the journey ends in death but hasn't the heart to tell Sam yet) and echoed so beautifully in the waterskin scene (where Sam finally acknowledges what Frodo has known all along and recognizes that Frodo knew it). I said somewhere else (I think the EE thread that tg directed me to) that the only way the EE will "work" for me is if I completely ignore Frodo saying at the Crossroads that he thinks he isn't coming back.

I hate doing that, because any Frodo moment, as only Elijah can do it, is by definition a beautiful moment! But the movies (and Frodo) have to make sense to me too, and I much prefer the understated but linear development of what-Sam-knows-and-when-he-knows-it that's already in the theatrical cut.

tg,
My guess is that a lot of this alteration [in Sam's response to Gollum] is from the effort to put Sam and Frodo on a more equal footing, rather than the book's master and servant relationship with Sam having Frodo on a pedestal. Movie-Sam says out loud a lot of what book-Sam thinks, and I don't really have a problem with that. But the violence against Gollum just puts it over the top for me--even when Frodo's wishes weren't a factor, book-Sam didn't act that way, starting with how loosely he tied the rope around Gollum's ankle when he's first captured.

that's a most interesting observation and one that I don't think I've seen discussed anywhere. I think you're probably right. And perhaps also, as in any conversation between two people, the more film Sam says and does to externalize what is going on among the three of them, the less there is (alas) for Frodo to say and do. But this is a topic on which we have exhausted ourselves.

Honeyelf and Alyon, thanks again for offering to share your upcoming opportunity with the rest of us by carrying thoughts and words westward with you. Even though I can't contain what I would like to say in just a sheet of paper, and Elijah, ever admirable and the best ROTK-EE commentator in the bunch bar none, is probably the wrong person to say my particular thing to anyway ;) , I hope you have a marvelous day in Pasadena and look forward very eagerly to hearing (and seeing) all about it when you get back.

Belated new year's wishes to all, and a belated happy birthday to Tolkien too! :D

I was listening to TTT soundtrack today and the end lyric's to Gollum's Song reminded me of the Crossroads scene and Frodo's feeling that he's not coming back. There is a shift in pronouns at the end of the song from "We" (which I take to mean Smeagol/Gollum), to "you," and it seemed that Gollum could be talking to Frodo, "And you will weep, to be so alone. You are lost, you can never go home." Am I being...overly attentive to detail again? C4

ceefour,
Frankly I don't think that you are "overly attentive to detail". ;) You are as much attentive, as this movie (and this book) needs from their spectator/reader!

I have exactly the same feeling, when I listen Gollum's song! I'm quite sure that in these last lines he's adressing to Frodo... And I think that in the Crossroads scene this line in the script was given to Frodo intentionaly. This is a consistent development of the theme - of "not coming back" for Frodo, which is going through all the ROTK - from the very first his scene (conversation with Sam about rationing food "for coming back") to the scene with water in Mordor ("not enough for coming back - there will be no coming back"). Very true for the book, IMHO

Flourish said
I am afraid I still hold to my view that Frodo always knew he wasn't coming back--certainly even film Frodo knew it from the scene on the shore at the close of FOTR--and that the EE line he has in the Crossroads scene is an anomaly, one of those inexplicable PJ plot screw-ups, that messes with all the groundwork laid in the opening moments of ROTK (where it so delicately shown that Frodo knows the journey ends in death but hasn't the heart to tell Sam yet) and echoed so beautifully in the waterskin scene (where Sam finally acknowledges what Frodo has known all along and recognizes that Frodo knew it). .

Flourish
I can't agree with you in the point when you say that and that the EE line he has in the Crossroads scene is an anomaly (...), that messes with all the groundwork laid in the opening moments of ROTK. Why? Because I feel that you misread the situation. This is just a psychologic moment - Frodo says that he thinks he will not come back not because he just realised it. No. he just admits this fact outloud for the first time... As you truthfuly mentioned, he knew this since the River. But he kept this knowledge inside him, didn't share it with Sam... till he had enough strangth to manage his fear and despair. But at the Crossroads he's already so exhausted that he can't keep this terror and despair inside him - they overrun him completely and he just splashed them out. This is just a sudden, spontaneous cry from the heart - cry of pain, fear and despair... This is very understandable - when you cry out you fear and despair, you always feel easier... Even if you know this will not change the real situation. In some way, this is also a cry for help. He so terribly needs Sam to understand the situation... needs for moral support and understanding too, coz his own strength are almost gone...

hi all!!!

i finally hade a chans to look at DAY-O!!!!!

i think it was a cute movie!!
elijah was so cute in it!!!!!

i realy hope it will show up in english or with swedish sutitel
but understood most of it,thank`s p!!!!!

wonder why it is such mysteri with this movie????

any other news!!!! Achila do you know anything or sombody else!!
as usally i can`t find anything!!!!! :(


love you all/wood

Happy New Year, dear Faculty members! :) :) :)

Last night, not coincidentally on the Professor's birthday, peaceweaver and I had a unique treat: we saw ROTK-EE in a movie theater, on a big screen, with other Tolkien fans. A group calling itself the Chicago Fellowship rented a theater and sold tickets for the event. Mercifully, there was a half-hour break between discs, during which the organizers led a toast to JRRT. Having brought a small flask of wine and two cups, I was able to share the toast with peaceweaver in fine style. :D Due to the late hour we had to leave before the raffle they held after the film. I was :z: that I would win the awesome Coronation action figure set, which I had never seen before. No e mail notifying me of my win has come :( , so it looks like another Quest is in the works. :cool:

Frodo's line at the Crossroads has taken some criticism, but it doesn't bother me within the context of the film. It is the first time Frodo voices aloud to Sam his belief that he won't be coming back. On the whole, I like the additions in the EE and I feel they make the whole movie flow better by alternating the grand scenes with quieter, personal moments. It may take another viewing to be sure, however. :)

A day or two late, I finally sent Honeyelf my fangirl letter to Elijah. :o Oh, to be in SoCal now that hobbit lads are there!

Movie-Sam says out loud a lot of what book-Sam thinks, and I don't really have a problem with that. But the violence against Gollum just puts it over the top for me--even when Frodo's wishes weren't a factor, book-Sam didn't act that way, starting with how loosely he tied the rope around Gollum's ankle when he's first captured.

TG, yeah, I just looked at the book again. It takes Sam seeing Shelob about to strike, and then Gollum attacking Sam to prevent any counter action from him, to make Sam attack Gollum with "red fury." When Gollum's finally run off Sam finds Frodo "dead" and I think he blames his blind fury at Gollum for not being able to prevent Shelob from killing Frodo.

At movie CoD, when Gollum attacks once again, Sam takes that one last slashing blow at Gollums stomach then turns to follow Frodo. We really don't get the sense that Sam has made a choice for mercy, but that he's decided Gollum isn't worth the trouble.

the only way the EE will "work" for me is if I completely ignore Frodo saying at the Crossroads that he thinks he isn't coming back.

Flourish, that scene bugs me, too. I suppose Frodo could have decided that he needed to spell it out to Sam that they won't be going home, but it doesn't seem that was what was intended by the direction of the scene. To me Frodo seems filled with self-concern there, and that just ain't true to the Frodo I love.

But it has often been so with the extended edition scenes. They can seem very akward. I have to look at them a few times before I'm willing to accept them for what they are. Maybe part of the problem is that I was hoping for certain book scenes, and got stuff that feels extraneous instead. When TTT ee came out I watched the "roast chicken" scene about 8 times in a row, until I came to like if for what it was; Sam being "Shire Incarnate" and Frodo mourning that he's taken Sam so far from the safety of their home.

C4, sense the first time I heard Gollum's, before I'd even read the book, I had no doubt that Gollum was singing those last lines to Frodo. Nope, I don't think you're over analyzing at all! :)

Ladies, I've got my morning full with shopping for a new fridgie. Won't get to book-putting-together stuff until this afternoon! Still not too late! :D

honey!

Rikka, next time I watch the EE I will definitely have your comment

He so terribly needs Sam to understand the situation... needs for moral support and understanding too, coz his own strength are almost gone...

in mind. Thanks for the idea. It is more true of film Frodo than book Frodo, I think (book Frodo being the epitome of endurance beyond hope and strength while suffering beyond Sam's knowledge or understanding), and I still feel the interplay of knowledge between F&S is so much more beautiful and subtle without the Crossroads line. But I think you have probably hit on the filmmaker's reason for putting it there. And PJ does love those "bookend" kind of scenes, doesn't he? :D

Honey, YEAH. ;) It ain't Frodo.

About the LOTR songs, by the way, they are ALL addressed to Frodo, an idea I really love. "May It Be" and "Into the West" are Galadriel's blessings upon him, and "Gollum's Song" is of course his malediction upon Frodo. Wonderful symmetry, great songs.

It is more true of film Frodo than book Frodo.
Flourish,
right, this is more true for movie_Frodo. But for movie Frodo this is absolutely genuine! And this IS movie Frodo whom we are speaking about (am I right?) So no reasons to judge him as book Frodo...

Yeah, they ARE different, but IMHO, movie_Frodo is just a book_Frodo who is 15 years younger! This raise the difference: his endurance beyond hope and strength of soul are with him anyway, but he's more fragule and vulnerable - because he's younger. IMHO, this is the only serious difference.

that just ain't true to the Frodo I love.
Flourish, Honey,
dear ladies, I can't agree with you again. :) In my head these two Frodos - from the book and from the movie - are mixed and united. In fact, they are the same person for me, but in slightly different circumstances. And I deeply love this 'mixed' character, without dividing him in two.

, At movie CoD, when Gollum attacks once again, Sam takes that one last slashing blow at Gollums stomach then turns to follow Frodo. We really don't get the sense that Sam has made a choice for mercy, but that he's decided Gollum isn't worth the trouble.


Inside the logic of the movie this is quite reasonable that Sam doesn't make a choice of mercy for Gollum. In the book he did it only because he already had an experience of being the Ringbearer himself - he put the Ring on and felt it's power on his own back. And because of it he suddenly understood Gollum's suffering, if not completely, as Frodo did, but on subconscious way. In the movie Sam, in fact was not a Ringbearer completely - he never put it on, just kept it for some short time, may be he even didn't touch it (we never see Sam touching the Ring in the movie, he holds it only by the chain!). So he didn't pass that way that could give him a chance to understand and be sorry for Gollum.

Rikka, I am not sure whether you're saying that we shouldn't judge film Frodo as if he were book Frodo (a) because he isn't book Frodo, or (b) because they are "mixed and united," a younger and older version of the exact same person. Can those both be true?

I am OK with disagreeing about this! :k I love the way each person here has a different view of the films, the books, and each of the characters. I think Honey's point that film Frodo sometimes exhibits a touch of non-canon "self"-ishness is a good one--I would have to watch the scene again to see whether it comes through at the Crossroads, but I have noticed it many times before, for instance in film Frodo's needing to believe that Gollum could be saved, which he expresses to Sam.

Book Frodo would be pleased if Gollum were "cured" of the Ring for Gollum's sake, out of the pity for him that is one of Tolkien's strongest themes. But film Frodo seems to really need for Gollum to be cured for Frodo's sake, because, contrary to his belief that he isn't coming back, he doesn't want to end up like Gollum. (This is a real change from book Frodo, btw ;) .)

The idea that film Sam didn't feel pity for Gollum because he hadn't worn the Ring is interesting. I don't quite see it from the book, but if the filmmakers thought so, it would be the only possible explanation they could offer for the omission, since they pretty much scuttled the whole idea of mercy driving Fate and sealing the doom of Gollum that meant so much to Tolkien's conception of the Ring and of Frodo's role in its destruction. Have they offered that explanation in the commentary? I don't recall, though I think Elijah (phew! back on topic) said something about mercy in his own comments on the Crack of Doom scene.

Just popping in to drop off this little nugget -- it's from Zap2it, which is an American movie and entertainment site, from an article about a new movie being cast called "Goal":

""Goal" is just one of a slew of upcoming soccer-themed films including "The Game of Their Lives" starring Wes Bentley, "The Yank" starring Elijah Wood" and "Goal!," which will feature Real Madrid footballer David Beckham."

Methinks perhaps some news might be coming soon???

In case someone misunderstood the "Sin in the City" title of adhkaw's thread in the "Technology Sorted" forum, it does, indeed, give a link to the Sin City trailer--especially for Apple users, although there are some suggestions on other software to try. If anyone's had a hard time getting the trailer to download properly, you might want to check it out:
http://www.khazaddum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3375

Too busy at work today to take more than a short break, so can't say much about the "Crossroads" conversation, except that I agree with what Rikka has said. Sheryl gave some wonderful comments, too, in the RotK-EE thread about Frodo's statement there not being his first realization that he probably wasn't going home, but rather a particularly strong moment of experiencing it--as she pointed out all of us can feel at moments, even after we've made an irrevocable commitment to something. That's how I see it, too, after taking a close look at it (yes, "close look" as in screencaps ;) --in case anyone hasn't seen it, it's at: "Just a feeling" (http://www.frodolivesin.us/RotK/id42.htm). Along the way, there are links to several other scenes that IMHO seem to be related or similar.

Hello ladies...
I've been lurking, and reading your discussions about the new, and IMHO opinion, very much improved ROTK...

Rikka
This is just a psychologic moment - Frodo says that he thinks he will not come back not because he just realised it. No. he just admits this fact outloud for the first time...

Your whole paragraph about your take on this much disputed scene, so much matches my own take on this, that it is uncanny...I didn't have any other feeling at all, except that he was simply giving voice to his inner conviction that he perhaps wouldn't be coming home after all, a conviction that had been growing ever since his mind was made up on the banks of the Anduin, right back at the end of "Fellowship"...
I just accepted that that was what was going through his mind, and was a little mystified at the furore that this little added scene has raised...I suppose that it might seem a little out of sequence, but that didn't occur to me, the first time I saw it...

As for the rest of the added Frodo scenes, I am so pleased that the whole journey through the plains of Gorgoroth are now a little longer and more exhausting then was previously indicated..and I love the whole bit with the Orc army, and the fake fight...a nice touch from P.J. to include that...
And I also LOVE that the statue of the King was illuminated by a very brief gleam of sun...a beautiful and 'just right' image...am I right in remembering that this was lifted straight from the book ?

...am I right in remembering that this was lifted straight from the book ?
Almost... :( The change from the book there is much more disappointing to me than the earlier "Just a feeling." But IMHO it's part of the "simplification" of the characters we get in the movies--that is, if there's hope involved, it has to come from Sam rather than Frodo.

In the book, Frodo sees the flowers on the king's head and is "startled into speech." He says (this is sans book, so may not be exact), "Look, Sam, the king has got a crown again." The brief flash of sunshine hits the "crown" and Frodo says, "They cannot conquer forever." Then the darkness falls again "as a shutter on a lamp," (I love that image) and Frodo and Sam head off to Cirith Ungol.

Even if they had to give "The king has got a crown again," to Sam, w-h-y oh, w-h-y couldn't they have let Frodo say, "They cannot conquer forever." -- ? The darkness falling immediately afterward would even fit their tying of hope to Sam, and if they like "bookends" this is the one that goes with Sam's star scene. A big disappointment to me, just because it would have been so easy--and effective--to include that line, IMVHO.

thanks for the link tg!! :k

i have watch the trailer a couple of time and thou
elijah is not in ,only for sek.i must say this is a movie
that is in my liking!!!

well i better tell you i love movies with fight and violenc
i guess it`s a dark side from me!! hope i diden`t scared
anybody away!! :lol:

i realy cross my fingers for elijah in this one and the holigan!!!

oh,i wonder why is there not a trailer for that one????

love you all/wood

A big disappointment to me, just because it would have been so easy--and effective--to include that line, IMVHO.


Like Sam NOT saying, "It's warm! Meaning your hand, Mr. Frodo," in FOTR when he runs into Frodo's room in Rivendell. :confused:

We know all about how Sir Ian pressed them to have Sean pick up Elijah's hand there. Having Sean deliver the line that goes with the gesture would have been another one of those easy and effective things that for some unfathomable reason they didn't do.

It will always bug me! :rolleyes:

Most Attractive Man of 2004 (http://www.hellomagazine.com/vote/grand_finale2004/hombreatractivo.html?pantalla=hombreatractivo)

Our beautiful One Lad is way behind! :eek: (Orli :rolleyes: )

Methinks perhaps some news [on "The Yank"] might be coming soon???

crossing all available appendages! :z:

honey!

Our beautiful One Lad is way behind! :eek:
But, at least he is included! How many times have I picked up a People Magazine's 'Most Beautiful People' issue, only to find that he wasn't on the list? Not to mention all those other lists that he is not on... :mad: And, yes, Orlando is very attractive, but as far as I'm concerned, he can't hold a candle to our Elwood. :)

I'm also enjoying the Crossroads discussion, and will try to use Rikka's interpretation the next time I see it. For me, it was another of those :eek: moments, like when Faramir says, "The Ring must go to Gondor." :confused: :eek: :confused: Just, couldn't process it.

Frodo, who clearly had chosen a suicide mission at the end of movie one, is suddenly realizing he might be in a little personal danger now? How dim can he be?

If that wasn't infuriating enough, they had to give his line to Sam. I'm sorry, screen adapters. If you go giving away lines, lovely as they are, to different characters, the viewer's experience of the movie is going to be changed. I found it pretty exasperating, because I couldn't understand the reason for it. You can't take a complex character like Frodo and "simplify" him into a one-note character. It just doesn't work. So much gets scrambled that I really wonder how much of Tolkien's message is getting through (which is why I like to sanity check my impression of the movies on the boards).

However, with your help, I will try to understand. That's why I come here. :k And (value-free moment, here) I so adore Elijah's performance, compared to some of the other actors, that more lines given away from him to them does not make me a happy camper! Of course I adore that he can act circles around a scene using only his expression. But Frodo is supposed to be a natural leader. It's just wrong to have him guided by Sam all the time. *stomps off in a huff, clutching her Purist bible *

But, at least he is included! How many times have I picked up a People Magazine's 'Most Beautiful People' issue, only to find that he wasn't on the list? Not to mention all those other lists that he is not on... :mad: And, yes, Orlando is very attractive, but as far as I'm concerned, he can't hold a candle to our Elwood. :)

The way I see it, Lij is an acquired taste, only for discerning...uh...palates (LOL). Not everyone seems to see what we see, and that's fine. More for us!

The way I see it, Lij is an acquired taste, only for discerning...uh...palates (LOL). Not everyone seems to see what we see, and that's fine. More for us!Yes, I'd agree with that. Too many seem to find him 'funny looking' :rolleyes: and I can't really blame them, as I used to think the same thing. :eek: Well, I'll qualify that a bit: I thought he was beautiful as Frodo always, but his 'real' self took awhile to grow on me, and for a long time I thought of him as 'oddly beautiful.'

...And that's as far as I'll go into talking about his looks or I'm bound to start swooning. :D

About the last lines of “Gollum’s Song ("And you will weep, to be so alone. You are lost, you can never go home”): The first time I listened to this, it just gave me the chills, because I felt that Gollum was taunting Frodo with the very thing that Frodo fears most. The lyric also plays on the idea (very evident in the films, though not in the book) that Frodo will become like Gollum, under the Ring’s power.

As for the Crossroads scene, I can see some people's point that it seems to conflict with earlier evidence (the end of FotR, and the first Frodo/Sam scene in RotK) that Frodo has always known that he might not come back. But there’s knowing and KNOWING. And maybe the point of the Crossroads scene is that Frodo’s “intellectual” awareness is finally being backed up by “visceral” awareness of his probable fate: oh my god, I’m really NOT coming back. I think this was also the point that tgshaw (or Sheryl, I guess) was making.

tgshaw: Nice picture of the hobbits at the Green Dragon. IIRC, PJ (or someone) on the EE mentions that this was the last scene that the four of them filmed together.

honeyelf, like you, I was disappointed that there wasn’t more praise for Elijah from PJ/Fran/Philippa. But then, they DO have a large cast to compliment. I enjoyed the actors’ commentary more on this EE than on the earlier two. It was especially interesting to hear EJW say (during the scene when Shelob is stalking him) how much he actually enjoyed the “cut-up” nature of the filming, because it gave him the opportunity to focus on one small part of his performance at a time, and really polish it.

BunnieBugs wrote:
Too many seem to find him 'funny looking' and I can't really blame them, as I used to think the same thing.
Yup, me too. I keep getting the "He's weird" reaction from my friends. He certainly is not conventionally movie-star handsome. And his looks are so changeable -- a great asset in his career, but a liability in the matinee-idol sweepstakes (which, fortunately and wisely, he doesn't seem to care about).

I've cleared my PM box of some old stuff. So if you've been trying to PM me, try again! There's still room in the book for YOUR part! :)

TG, I finally got around to looking at your "Just a Feeling" caps. As usual, you've saved an 'iffy' scene for me. I'm still not sure about Frodo's little falter, and 'inward' moment at the beginning of the scene. But at the end he's plainly concerned that Sam understand what lies ahead.

This just occured to me though: in the previous scene Sam has revealed that he has been rationing so they'd have enough food. Frodo gives him a really quizzical look, and then asks "enough for what?" So maybe, what Frodo is really realizing, at the beginning of the "Just a feeling" scene, when he's having his 'inward' moment, is that Sam doesn't yet get it. Maybe he's thinking hard how to tell Sam this, how to gently make him understand. :( But dear Sam, being Hope Unquenchable, is having none of it. ::sob:: ::snorfle::

hugs,
honey!

I'm sorry, screen adapters. If you go giving away lines, lovely as they are, to different characters, the viewer's experience of the movie is going to be changed. I found it pretty exasperating, because I couldn't understand the reason for it. You can't take a complex character like Frodo and "simplify" him into a one-note character. It just doesn't work. So much gets scrambled that I really wonder how much of Tolkien's message is getting through (which is why I like to sanity check my impression of the movies on the boards).

Oh, the woes of the book purists ;) :k -
I saw the films (at least Fellowship), being a complete Tolkien virgin and if that is any comfort for you, Mariole, my impression is, that Tolkien's message IS getting through (sometimes despite the changes they've made, admittedly). However, when I was reading the book for the first time I was blown away by the powerful image Sam sees in Frodo's and Gollum's encounter (the lucent white figure). I was surprised, but it was no contradiction to the Frodo I knew from the movies. To me Tolkien is the "catholic" version of the story whereas PJ's interpretation is the "protestant" type, so to speak. :D
Yes, screenplay_Frodo is simplified, but Elijah's acting gives him back what the screen adapters took away. It's there! (Horrorfying thought - a less subtle actor had ruined Frodo to a great extent!) I suspect that PJ was so extremely out for designing Middle Earth exeedingly rich and detailed in a realistic appearing way in setting, costumes etc. because he knew that Tolkien's cosmos is way too complex as to be adapted *only* by means of accurate transferred dialogue.

But Frodo is supposed to be a natural leader. It's just wrong to have him guided by Sam all the time. *stomps off in a huff, clutching her Purist bible *

Hmm, I didn't get the impression that he was guided by Sam throughout and I think Frodo did came across as natural leader. *tries to study the index of Mariole's Purist bible*

The Crossroads scene has puzzled a few people and was discussed over in the Trilogy forum a little while ago. This is what I wrote there, and I will just add that I think the two theatrical-release scenes that hint at the one-way nature of the journey are such brilliant examples of the subtlety of Elijah Wood's portrayal of Frodo, and his grasp of most of what the character is all about (what the writers permitted him to work with), that I still can't help but find the EE moment superfluous and jarring. Perhaps the writers did too because they did, after all, leave it out of the theatrical release.

Anyway, I think I said it better here:

One of the things I did give the writers credit for, actually, based on Frodo's tears at Amon Hen and his silent "what are you thinking" look at Sean's rationing of the waybread, was their understanding that Frodo knew, for most of the journey, that he wasn't coming back.

So I have to find a non-narrative explanation for the lines in the Crossroads scene [that they were put in the EE just to add another F&S moment for the fans, not because they made sense in the narrative] because as I see it, it completely contradicts what they've consistently told us about Frodo's state of mind up to this point. And it robs the water bottle scene of its piercing irony--Frodo is checking to see whether Sam still thinks they're coming back because (I think) he wants it now, at last, to be clear to Sam that they're not. He doesn't need to protect Sam's feelings any longer--their situation is finally too dire for such concerns. And Sam acknowledges that they're not coming back, and that he knows it, and he knows that Frodo already knows it.

I even credit Sean Astin here for conveying that Sam knows, now, that Frodo knew it all along.

But the Crossroads line turns that whole scene upside down, so after I post this I'm going to begin a lifetime of ignoring it.

What Frodo really should have said there, of course, is "The King has got a crown again!" [/purist] ;)

The Crossroads scene has puzzled a few people and was discussed over in the Trilogy forum a little while ago. This is what I wrote there, and I will just add that I think the two theatrical-release scenes that hint at the one-way nature of the journey are such brilliant examples of the subtlety of Elijah Wood's portrayal of Frodo, and his grasp of most of what the character is all about (what the writers permitted him to work with), that I still can't help but find the EE moment superfluous and jarring. Perhaps the writers did too because they did, after all, leave it out of the theatrical release.
I would certainly agree with superfluous, and I did find it jarring the first time I saw it. IMHO, that's true of many of the EE scenes. My guess--and that's all it is--is that PJ (and/or whoever) realized that the fans really wanted to see the scene with the headless king--I certainly did! For some reason, they considered the "just a feeling" moment as part of that scene, judging by the scene index. I don't know if perhaps they thought the hope in the HK scene needed to be balanced by a reminder that there's another side?

What Frodo really should have said there, of course, is "The King has got a crown again!" [/purist] ;)
Of course--thanks for the correction :o . Although I don't think I did too badly from memory :p .

TG, I finally got around to looking at your "Just a Feeling" caps. As usual, you've saved an 'iffy' scene for me. I'm still not sure about Frodo's little falter, and 'inward' moment at the beginning of the scene. But at the end he's plainly concerned that Sam understand what lies ahead.
Well, IMVHO, Elijah saved the scene (with a little help from Sean on this one, I think, showing Sam's feelings so clearly). I just try to find any buried treasure--after many years of practice as a Tolkien reader :p . One of my "recurring themes" throughout these movies has been how good a match PJ and, especially, Elijah are for Tolkien's material--scenes, words and actions that are layered enough to be validly interpreted in various ways by different people, or even by the same person on different viewings--and not always as the originator did! (And by that last bit, I don't mean the people Tolkien berated for saying the Ring was an allegory for the atomic bomb; I mean the type of reader who'd write JRRT a letter about a particular nuance they'd picked up, with JRRT replying with something like, "Oh, yes, I never thought of it that way.")

And I agree that placing this scene so soon after the lembas rationing one (or placing the lembas rationing scene just before this one) is significant. IMHO, even people who don't catch subtle acting clues should be able to tell that Frodo's truly puzzled when he asks "For what?" From that placement, I think it's entirely understandable that Frodo would take the next opportunity to try to open Sam's eyes to the reality of the situation [and I'll acknowledge, as "Hobbits Rule" pointed out in the EE thread, that Sam does eventually turn out to be right ;) ].

I hadn't thought of the "inward moment" possibly being Frodo thinking specifically about what Sam had said, and realizing he needed to say something to him, but I don't see anything to contradict that interpretation. I think maybe I get so hungry for Frodo-as-mystic in the movies (why I loved that the beginning of TTT turned out to be his dream) that I look for any possible instances of that, and I see that inward moment as one of those possibilities. I tend to read Frolijah's "Just a feeling" at the same level I do his "Just a dream" from TTT--that there's no just about it at all, but rather he was having a profound experience that we're not privvy to in this case. It takes him awhile to move from "inward" to "outward," which would be expected after such a moment. Who knows? Maybe another little visit from Galadriel?

I think it was in the EE thread that I mentioned the difference in the Frodo&Sam relationship between the movie and book. In the movie, Sam doesn't have his book version's idea of "Mr. Frodo is always right." No matter how direct movie-Frodo would be with movie-Sam about no return journey, Sam would still have to come to the realization himself; he wouldn't take Frodo's say-so on the matter. Movie-Frodo gets pretty darn close to direct here, and Sam's response is anything but encouraging. I can see why Frodo might drop the subject, at least for awhile.

Two thoughts just now:

--Could this add another layer to the scene where Frodo tells Sam to go home? At that point, Frodo "knows" they won't be going home, he knows that Sam doesn't grasp that, and he knows that after they get through the pass there won't be any turning back. The lembas incident is just another reminder to Frodo of Sam's hope of a return trip. I'm hearing little echoes of the end of FotR, with Sam saying it would have been the death of him to be left behind ("I couldn't have borne it") and Frodo replying, "It would be the death of you to come with me. And I could not have borne that." [Sans book, again, any corrections welcome :p ]. I still think the fear that Sam is being affected by the Ring is Frodo's main reason for sending him home, but could this have also been playing in Frodo's mind?

--At first, it bothered me that Frodo said, "I don't think I'll be going back," instead of, "I don't think we'll be going back." Seemed a bit self-centered. Then I thought that maybe, since he's still not sure what Sam thinks about it, Frodo purposely doesn't include Sam in the statement. Now I'm also thinking that part of its purpose (from the writers' point of view, not Frodo's) is as part of the "going back" motif that runs throughout the movies. In that case, it would be absolutely correct for Frodo to apply the thought only to himself and not to Sam. Interesting that in the scene where Sam does finally realize the situation, the term "going back" isn't used--it's "return journey." Using this particular play on the words doesn't strike me as something Tolkien would do, but it strikes me very much as something these screenwriters would do.

from Whiteling:
Yes, screenplay_Frodo is simplified, but Elijah's acting gives him back what the screen adapters took away. It's there! (Horrorfying thought - a less subtle actor had ruined Frodo to a great extent!) I suspect that PJ was so extremely out for designing Middle Earth exeedingly rich and detailed in a realistic appearing way in setting, costumes etc. because he knew that Tolkien's cosmos is way too complex as to be adapted *only* by means of accurate transferred dialogue.
Yes, that horrifying thought is what made me so relieved when Elijah was cast, and what makes me still believe he was meant to play Frodo. And I definitely agree about the emphasis on the reality of Middle-earth and everything involved in it. The locations are amazingly "right" (a lot of thanks to Alan Lee and John Howe for that, I'm sure--but, then, someone had to ask them to be involved).

I do believe everything in the movies, from the various cultures down to elements of the dialogue, purposely indicate that we're getting just a "taste" of Middle-earth, including the characters and their stories--and IHMO this is just how it should be. IMHO, the movies have done a great job of fulfilling what I've always felt to be their most important purpose--serving as very long trailers for the book. What I hope people find when they go from the movie(s) to the book is exactly the kind of experience Whiteling just described. And enough people seem to be having that kind of experience that I don't think the movies will replace the book*, as sometimes happens--50 years from now, I think these movies will still be leading people to the book.

---------
*with the possible exception of a high percentage of images of Frodo having dark hair and blue eyes. ;)

OK, I've whittled away at my intro for the book, taken out some stuff that Mariole said much better in her letter, and added some. Rather than post the whole thing again, I'm just posting what was the middle paragraph. I've expanded it a little, and split it into two paragraphs.
Some of us have been together since the filming of The Lord of the Rings – and your casting was announced. Some have been fans of your work for years. One member first saw your Frodo potential when you were playing Huck Finn! We suspect she’s only half tongue in cheek when she suggests a Professor of obscure ancient languages, on a far white shore, had a ghostly hand in casting you as Frodo! Many of us had long loved Frodo while, for others, the movies were their introduction to Middle Earth.

But new fans join our little group with surprising frequency. One such had seen you as McPhee Broadman in “The True Test” and was so convinced that you were that bratty monster that she swore off your movies until a friend took her to see “Return of the King.” Now she’s convinced that you’re a very fine actor, an assessment with which the rest of us concur. Together we all eagerly anticipate Matt, Jonathan, Kevin, and Mumbles!

TG, I hope you don't mind! :k After all, you did say:
Yes, that horrifying thought is what made me so relieved when Elijah was cast, and what makes me still believe he was meant to play Frodo.

the book is shaping up nicely, but all the pages are not in yet, and I can still add more!

honey!

THAT SOUNDS GREAT HONEYELF!!!! :k :k

I MUST SAY SOMETHING ABOUT THE MOST ATTRACTIVE MEN 2004

IN AWAY I DON`T THINK ELIJAH WANT TO BE IN THIS KIND OF
LISTS!! AND I THINK SOMETIMES HE MAKES HIM SELF LOOK LIKE A GEEK
JUST THAT HE DON`T WANT THAT KIND OF ATTENTION!!!
AM I WRONG?? MAYBE ,BUT THIS IS WHAT I THINK!!!

ANYWAY TOO ME HE WILL ALWAYES BE MR.BEAUTIFUL!! :p :D
AND I DON`T CARE WHAT OTHERS MAIT THINK!!

LIKE SOMEBODY SADE IT`S MORE FOR US!!!! :p :D :lol:


LOVE YOU ALL/WOOD

Sorry, tg! I didn't mean to suggest that you had got the line wrong, but rather that the writers had.

Sorry, tg! I didn't mean to suggest that you had got the line wrong, but rather that the writers had.
I just looked back at my original post, and I did have it wrong, but in a different way. I did have "again" in the right place, but I'd inserted "Sam," where it shouldn't have been. With book in front of me, now:
Suddenly, caught by the level beams, Frodo saw the old king's head: it was lying rolled away by the roadside. 'Look, Sam!' he cried, startled into speech. 'Look! The king has got a crown again!'

The eyes were hollow and the carven head was broken, but about the high stern forehead there was a coronal of silver and gold. A trailing plant with flowers like small white stars had bound itself across the brows as if in reverence for the fallen king, and in the crevices of his stony hair yellow stonecrop gleamed.

'They cannot conquer for ever!' said Frodo. And then suddenly the brief glimpse was gone. The Sun dipped and vanished, and as if at the shuttering of a lamp, black night fell.
Sigh.... The book we shall always have with us.

I suspect the "again" was taken out in the movie (I honestly can't remember--I've only listended to the dialogue once) because they'd have to explain what had happened to take his crown away. As with some other things in the movies, I thought the orc-head was great, but it wasn't talked about at all, and some who hadn't read the book might not have gotten it. Maybe one reason it didn't show up until the EE, where they expect all the viewers to know the book.

----------

Honey, I love the addition of the Professor, but I'm not terribly fond of the word "ghostly". "Hand" probably doesn't need any adjective there, since you've mentioned the white shore, but if you want one, I'd pick (in order of theological correctness ;) ) saintly, heavenly, or angelic. -- And, maybe you don't want to say this in the letter, but I'll categorically state that I'm not tongue in cheek at all. :z:

The book we shall always have with us.
Absolutely true -- and what a comfort that is! *sighs and clutches handy desk-reference copy*

I have found that I'm more forgiving if I see the adaptation before I read the original. For instance, I love the musical "The Secret Garden." I finally read the book this vacation. I clapped with delight when I recognized phrases that the playwrights had lifted straight from the book. However, I also noticed the variations. In the book, the son Colin has his mother's eyes, which is why his father only visits him when he's asleep. In the play, the orphan Mary has the dead mother's eyes. The widower and his brother were both in love with the dead Lily, and sing this wonderful song that still has me run through tissues whenever I hear it, and is the reason that I bought the soundtrack. It is the most unbelievably romantic thing in the world. So it amused me to reflect, as I read the book, that (had I known The Secret Garden half as well as I know LOTR), I might well have been sputtering in my theatre seat, saying, "But, it's COLIN who has Lily's eyes! Mary has nothing to do with it! The uncle wasn't in love with her -- the playwrights made that up! This is so Wrong!" :p

I saw the films (at least Fellowship), being a complete Tolkien virgin and if that is any comfort for you, Mariole, my impression is, that Tolkien's message IS getting through (sometimes despite the changes they've made, admittedly).
Thank you, Whiteling. It is in fact tremendously comforting. I sometimes go quite wild -- will an audience know, will they see all the wonderful layers? So it helps me very much to have people who saw the movie(s) as their first experience to say, "I got it." And you obviously did, or you wouldn't be here! *breathes huge sigh of relief*

So thank you all again, Flourish and Tg and Whiteling and Honey and Pelagia and Lady Wendy and Rikka and (well, I think you get the idea) for discussing this. Although I like this thought very much:

Yes, screenplay_Frodo is simplified, but Elijah's acting gives him back what the screen adapters took away.
*sighs with happiness* Yes, doesn't he? :)

Honey, I like your 2-paragraph rewrite for the intro. Let me know when you're ready to post a draft for us to savor!

It's cute to see Elijah listed in a "most attractive" runoff, when Brad Pitt isn't. :p But this is People magazine, right? They are often mysterious in their choices. ;)

But Frodo is supposed to be a natural leader. It's just wrong to have him guided by Sam all the time. *stomps off in a huff, clutching her Purist bible *

I don't have enough time or experience to get into discussions about the rights or wrongs of what was changed in the movies, but I have to say that it was film Frodo's vulnerability that made me want to take him home and give him some TLC and got me hooked to the films. Had he been more of a leader type, older, less cute, I might not be here now 12 months later, reading the books for the 2nd time and buying encyclopedias of Tolkien's world to help myself understand Middle Earth better.

I can also understand perfectly why Elijah doesn't top polls of attractive men. Now I 'know' him fairly well, I love him and appreciate him to bits, but when I first saw him as himself instead of Frodo, I thought he was really strange looking. I visited the link to the poll, but even now, I just couldn't vote for him on looks alone against stunners like Eric bana and Johnny Depp.

Had he been more of a leader type, older, less cute, I might not be here now 12 months later, reading the books for the 2nd time and buying encyclopedias of Tolkien's world to help myself understand Middle Earth better.

By the same token, if I had only come to know Frodo Baggins through his film portrayal, I would have thought the character cute but pathetic, unworthy of notice or interest and would have, perhaps been an Aragorn fan instead. I would most definitely NOT have bothered to pick up books about someone I considered so shallow and weak.

Just my .02.

Ariel

Your whole paragraph about your take on this much disputed scene, so much matches my own take on this, that it is uncanny...
(((Lady Wendy)))
All of us are very different, and discussions are more usual things at forum, but sometimes we feel in unison and this is a great feeling! :k


I am not sure whether you're saying that we shouldn't judge film Frodo as if he were book Frodo (a) because he isn't book Frodo, or (b) because they are "mixed and united," a younger and older version of the exact same person. Can those both be true?
Flourish, dear, my inability to express myself in a languare that I know badly, sometimes drive me mad! :) Especially when idea is a bit complicated. Well, I try to explain.

As I said previously, for me the main and only serious difference between Book_Frodo and Movie_Frodo is age. When we were 20, we react to the same challenges in different ways than at 35 - because we had less experince, less confidence and so on. Sometimes we do stupid things that we never would do later. So from this point of view you at 20 couldn't be judged in the same way as you at 35...So I can't demand from 21 years old Frodo to act as if he has an experience on 34-years old Frodo. But he's true Frodo for me, anyway, because his basic personality is here. IMHO, every person has a constant set of streaks in his temper during his life, that determines his personality. In the different periods of his life some of them could move to the foreground and other - to the background, but they will be presented anyway. All of us are a bit different when we are 20-something and when we are 30-something - but we are still we, basic points of our personality is here. So I recognize Frodo in the movie, even if he's 12-15 (?) years younger than in the Book. As a person, he's in general the same as book_Frodo.

Does this mess sound more distinct? :D


Frodo, who clearly had chosen a suicide mission at the end of movie one, is suddenly realizing he might be in a little personal danger now? How dim can he be?

But there’s knowing and KNOWING. And maybe the point of the Crossroads scene is that Frodo’s “intellectual” awareness is finally being backed up by “visceral” awareness of his probable fate: oh my god, I’m really NOT coming back.

Mariole,
this has nothing with dimness, this is very verisimilar human reaction. Pelagia formulate it very clearly! Yeah, Frodo know that his mission is in fact suicidal – and step by step accepted this idea intellectually. But the very different thing - to accept this terrible idea with your heart and soul, with all your being. That is nature, natural desire to live that will rebell against intellectual decisions... Do you think he really wanted to die? He could say to himself "I must", but for sure in his heart he still wanted to live… And at Crossroads a complete understanding of this knowing – that he will die, and die very soon - overhelmed him completely, to the innermost of his heart, all his being… well, this feeling got him like a spasm of terror, like a sudden heart attack…
BTW, tg you said at the other thread that you don't get the meaning of Frodo's face expression at that moment. IMHO, this is exactly it – this spasm of full and complete “visceral” realisation: Oh, I will die! Notice his eyes – at this shot he doesn't direct his eyes to Sam or at some specific object around – he's looking inside himself, inside his soul –and see there only and inevitable death.

By the same token, if I had only come to know Frodo Baggins through his film portrayal, I would have thought the character cute but pathetic, unworthy of notice or interest and would have, perhaps been an Aragorn fan instead. I would most definitely NOT have bothered to pick up books about someone I considered so shallow and weak.
Ariel

Well, this is all about different understanding of a book character - and difference of personality of each reader. For example, I'm absolutely oppisite to Ariel. For me the foundation-stones of book_Frodo personality were always exactly those, that were chosen for his movie portrait...

For me in the book "heroic leader Frodo" with a sword never was interesting... Till now I don't like the Book 1 of FOTR with all those Barrow Downs and Nazgul fighting things - they seem to me a bit too...fairy-tale-ish, too Bilbo-ish... I don't feel real heart connection with _this_ Frodo. If there was only such Frodo in LOTR, he would never become my favorite character. May be I even would never read LOTR again.

But, thanks Eru, there is another Frodo in the Book - my Frodo. Spiritual and very realistic: weak and fragile in body, but strong and courageous in spirit, who is overhelmed by fear, pain and despair, but anyway still moves on - because he _must_ go on... This paradoxal strength of weakness. For me there is no anything pathetic in it - on the contrary, loftiness of soul and spirit... Exactly because of it I so completely falled in love with this character. And because if it Wood became an ideal Frodo for me - they managed to get an essense of his unique "non-heroic" heroism of weakness in the movie.

P.S. Aragorn, sincerely saying, could never be my favorite character. Not in the Book, nor in the movie. He's too "usual" hero for me.

My apologies. I should know better than to post here. :p

You misunderstand me, Rikka. It was the strength of will and determination that I admired in book Frodo, not the swashbuckling. Film Frodo had so much of that removed from his character nearly all we had left was something to be pitied. I rarely ever got a sense from the film that he was the character driving the quest, more that he was being driven on, senseless, by Sam. YOU may not have seen it that way, but if I hadn't had the book as a base, I would have. I am pleased that you were able to enjoy things as they were presented, but please don't show contempt for me if I couldn't and don't fall in with the 'party line'. Perhaps I am far to 'unusual' to see things as I am 'supposed' to.

Ariel

My apologies. I should know better than to post here. You misunderstand me, Rikka. It was the strength of will and determination that I admired in book Frodo, not the swashbuckling.

No need for any apologies, Ariel. :) We are all different and have a right to have different views, OK? And to speak them out... And there is no any "contempt" in my words, I swear, only surprise. I just sincerely don't understand you - for all these long 3 years...

I know you vitrually for a long time already, Ariel - and on different Forums. Trying to understand your point of view, I based on the reproaches you casted upon the LOTR movies during all these years. I noticed, that the majority of movie_Frodo scenes, you were angry about, were exactly those where PJ didn't give him a chance to show pure "man heroism" of fighting and commanding... Isn't it?

I rarely ever got a sense from the film that he was the character driving the quest, more that he was being driven on, senseless, by Sam. YOU may not have seen it that way
Right you are, Ariel, I don't see it THIS way, definetely! . ;) IMHO, in the movie Frodo also drives the situation, the quest for a very long period - that is him, who makes all important decisions, not Sam. And I'm not only sorry for Frodo in the movie. Every time looking how he overcomes and supress his fear, weakness and pain, I'm proud of him and admire him and his great courage!

He's driven by Sam only in Mordor - but this is exactly from the BookWell, in the movie Frodo in Mordor is even more active and conscious than book_Frodo! He's still able to consider something, generate ideas in difficult situations (orc-fight)... And in the Book in Mordor, Frodo already is in so terrible shape, so helpless phisicaly, out of any connection with realuty, that Sam has to drive him forward all way long...

As I said previously, for me the main and only serious difference between Book_Frodo and Movie_Frodo is age. When we were 20, we react to the same challenges in different ways than at 35 - because we had less experince, less confidence and so on... All of us are a bit different when we are 20-something and when we are 30-something - but we are still we, basic points of our personality is here. So I recognize Frodo in the movie, even if he's 12-15 (?) years younger than in the Book. As a person, he's in general the same as book_Frodo.
That's one way I've been looking at movie-Frodo all along (well, since Pearl first suggested it after FotR ;) ). The original idea was to look at the movies as an "alternate history" of what might have happened if Gandalf had learned about the Ring immediately after Bilbo left, instead of 17 years later (some readers have a hard time accepting that it would have taken Gandalf that long). It's not difficult to see that the idea of an entire alternate history doesn't work (Pippin would be 11 years old in that case :p ), but IMVHO it does work for Frodo, for the very reasons Rikka gives--to me, movie-Frodo seems to have a personality very similar to book-Frodo's, but as it would have been at a much younger age. I see the difference most of all in his self-confidence (or lack therefore), but, in a way, that makes it all the more admirable for him to keep going. It does mean that some things take more time and/or effort: deciding to leave the Fellowship, choosing between the Black Gate and Gollum's "other way," realizing that he's not coming back.*

There's another way of looking at movie-Frodo that struck me during the scene at the Black Gate, and which I've been using since--and this, I think, we owe completely to Elijah. That's the feeling that I'm seeing the "inner Frodo"--the emotions that even 50-year-old book-Frodo had, but which he was willing and able to conceal, sometimes maybe even from himself. (And it's not unusual, I've noticed, for those emotions to show when no one but the audience is in a position to see them.) Those are the moments where I feel I've gotten some new insights into Frodo after 35 years of knowing him. I'll certainly never read, "There's an Eye in it," the same way again, when Frodo and Sam are searching for a way out of the Emyn Muil--FES, no wonder Frodo was so adamant about finding a path downwards! But that's just one of the simpler examples.

Well, this is all about different understanding of a book character - and difference of personality of each reader. For example, I'm absolutely oppisite to Ariel. For me the foundation-stones of book_Frodo personality were always exactly those, that were chosen for his movie portrait...
This reminds me of discussions I've been in about whether it's best to read The Hobbit or LotR first. There are a lot of people who say they couldn't have stuck with LotR if they hadn't read The Hobbit first. OTOH, if I'd read The Hobbit first, I never would have read LotR (I very likely wouldn't have finished The Hobbit)! But those people did read The Hobbit first, and I read LotR first, so here we are. Whether it's an example of "coincidence if coincidence you call it," or whether it's just that we never meet the people who picked up the wrong (for them) book first, because they're not here, who knows? But I've seen similar comments from people who were led to the book via the movie and people who were led to the movie via the book.

But, thanks Eru, there is another Frodo in the Book - my Frodo. Spiritual and very realistic: weak and fragile in body, but strong and courageous in spirit, who is overhelmed by fear, pain and despair, but anyway still moves on - because he _must_ go on... This paradoxal strength of weakness. For me there is no anything pathetic in it - on the contrary, loftiness of soul and spirit... - they managed to get an essense of his unique "non-heroic" heroism of weakness in the movie.
This is how I feel, too. I'll always miss the scene at the ford, not because we didn't get to see Frodo doing traditionally heroic things such as drawing his sword and facing his enemies, but because he's showing that "non-heroic" heroism. I've seen people ask why Frodo stops there--"It might look heroic, but it was stupid! Why didn't he just keep riding?" And my response is, "What? You think he had a choice in the matter?!" He's got his will, hopefully some interior support from Glorfindel, and, thank goodness, an Elven trained horse, aginst the will of the WiKi and 8 other Ringwraiths. By all rights, he should be running back across the river towards them (or jumping off the horse and swimming if the horse won't move). But, somehow, although he's already partially in their world and under their control, he manages to hold his ground. "You have some strength in you, my dear hobbit," indeed! As Rikka says, "strong and courageous in spirit." And although we don't get to see it at the ford (they try to let us know that he's been fighting the poison, but it just doesn't work as well, IMHO), we get to see it a lot of other places in the movies--perhaps even more courageous because we're better able to see how difficult it is for him.

[ETA: I wrote those two sentences before reading Ariel's and Rikka's latest posts. After reading them (and not having much time to think right now being, as usual, late for work already :rolleyes: ), I'd say that any driving done by Sam--and, yes, I do think some of it's there--comes across to me more as a negative part of Sam than as a negative part of Frodo. I don't see Sam as being responsible for Frodo continuing on, except physically at some points, as he does in the book. IMVHO, it's important that at some of the points where Frodo sees the least hope that he actively takes the lead, as he does at the end of the "just a feeling" scene. Sam doesn't give Frodo the lead, there--Frodo takes it. Same thing when they take their first steps into Mordor, and as they're climbing Mount Doom, and other places I don't have time to think of right now (and leaving the Fellowship, of course). Any decisions that have to be made are made by Frodo--and in the movies he has to deal with more outspoken disagreement from Sam than in the book.]

[Also ETA: Ariel, I hope that by saying you "should have known better" than to post here, you don't mean that we're nasty. :( One of the things we really aim at is being able to disagree on things without attacking the person we disagree with. (For some [i]real disagreement in this thread, try throwing in an opinion on All I Want :p !)]

--------
*If it does take movie-Frodo longer to accept that there won't be a return journey, I lay a big part of the blame on movie-Elrond and his Council. In the book, it's made very clear that this is probably hopeless, but there's no better way. It's also much more obvious that some kind of higher power will have to be involved, and that Frodo gets the job because he's been chosen for it by that higher power, not just because he's the first one to volunteer. I don't think the sheer impossibility of the quest is shown at all in the movies--I'm not sure it even exists in the movies. It would be awfully hard to make that evident, though, without allowing a higher power into the story, which the movies seem to avoid as much as possible.

Rikka, I think you express yourself very well indeed, and I appreciate your explaining. Finding out and trying to understand what other people think is one of the biggest reasons for enjoying forums and discussions like this, and the more substantive the conversations are the better I tend to like them. So thank you!

I have been rereading the books lately, with perhaps greater care than I ever did before the films, and I see many, many differences between book and film Frodo, more than I can ascribe to the mere addition of 17 years. I think the films did much more than just take those 17 years away. But I see your point, and I've accepted the filmmakers' decision to eliminate those years and the logistical need to shave off some of the character's complexity, and I'm ultimately very happy with film Frodo even though he will never be book Frodo for me. It's just kind of hard to argue with that much physical beauty, you know? :D It's.... seductive. :o

But I think it's completely legitimate and not at all disloyal to disagree with some of the filmmakers' decisions. I don't think anyone who does so is out to sway anybody else, or to detract from anyone else's enjoyment of the films.

For me it's just not necessary to rationalize what I think were mistakes or misjudgments, or to try to shoehorn book Frodo into the film. The films are Peter Jackson's LOTR, and they are what they are.

I love them. But I love them separately from the books.

I noticed, that the majority of movie_Frodo scenes, you were angry about, were exactly those where PJ didn't give him a chance to show pure "man heroism" of fighting and commanding... Isn't it?

If you feel you know me from the scant number of posts I have put in any other forum besides the harem, then I commend you. I would never assume that I knew you from just what I have read from you.

What I miss is not what I would call 'man heroism' but maturity, responsibility and the sense I had throughout the books that Frodo, though out of his element, was the one hobbit I would have looked to for guidence if Iwere there with them. What I liked most about the character were the features that PJ chose not to include in his character, but dismissing maturity, wit, and willpower as 'man heroism' feels like you are dismissing my preferences as lesser. I wouldn't do that to you. I am delighted that PJ kept those qualities that you treasured well enough so that you could see them in his film Frodo. Sadly, he didn't for me. I do enjoy the films and the character, but I honestly think that had it not been for the book, I would have been very hard pressed to see the admirable in PJ's Frodo.

Your mileage may vary, but I wasn't dictating policy, only my opinion. I don't expect nor wish others to share it.

Edit: before I go back to lurkage mode again - I should assure TG that I would never think of you gals as nasty. You all have very strong opinions and like to discuss them. I, too, have strong opinions, but they are come by as often by how I 'feel' as by any logical process, and that's rather hard to defend. Add to that the fact that I completely respect the ladies' right to see this story (film and book) as they will to the point that I don't usually feel the need to present my view.

I respect Rikka and think she presents her arguements extremely well for someone working in a second language (something I would be hopeless at!) I just don't get the same feeling from the film. Like Flourish, I appreciate both, but can't deny that for Frodo, I like his character a heck of a lot better in the book. Though, the thought of a closer to book Frodo who looks like EW's Frodo DOES make my heart patter.

(back to lurkage)

Ariel

What I miss is not what I would call 'man heroism' but maturity, responsibility and the sense I had throughout the books that Frodo, though out of his element, was the one hobbit I would have looked to for guidence if I were there with them. What I liked most about the character were the features that PJ chose not to include in his character, but dismissing maturity, wit, and willpower as 'man heroism' feels like you are dismissing my preferences as lesser. I wouldn't do that to you.

Hey, Ariel, don't be angry, pls! :k Don't forget that I'm not a native speaker and my English is so-so. I don't know and feel nuances of language. I try to express my thoughts as I can, but sometimes, I fear, do it clumsy. Of course, I don't know you personaly. I didn't mean that. I ment only that I know your point of view on the subject - you repeated it many times before and didn't change. And I also don't expect that you will share my point of view. You are absolutely free to keep yours. And so do I!

I do strongly feel that PJ definetely did include such qualities as wit, responsibility and pover of will in Frodo's character! And will stick to my guns in this point! :D While he's definetely less mature than Book_Frodo, IMHO, he is mature enough, comparing to Sam, Pippin and even Merry!

Yeah, I have a strong disagreement with you about Frodo - for a long time. But if you feel my comments to be offensive for you, please, know that in truth I didn't mean anything bad. I have no intention to dismiss your preferences as lesser . Just wanted to say that may be we understand same concepts (heroism, responsibility, will ets.) in different way... or your scales of values are a bit different. But such difference is normal. It just determines our preferences in the book and the movie.

Interesting stuff this morning.
it was film Frodo's vulnerability that made me want to take him home and give him some TLC and got me hooked to the films. Had he been more of a leader type, older, less cute, I might not be here now 12 months later, reading the books for the 2nd time and buying encyclopedias of Tolkien's world to help myself understand Middle Earth better.
Funny how differently we all see things. The first time I saw FoTR I couldn't stand Frodo. Firstly, he was way too pretty, and I couldn't figure out why they'd spend so much money on CG just to make some kid that pretty!

Then, like TG says, I'd read the Hobbit before, but not LOTR. Where Bilbo was a sunny optimistic sort, Frodo seemed like a sullen little storm cloud shadowing the landscape. But I didn't understand Frodo and Bilbo's relationship, and so I didn't understand Frodo.

Then there was the mithril shirt scene in Rivendell. It just seemed like such a cheese-cake moment, like it stepped out of the story too much, to make us all look a that annoyingly pretty actor somemore.

I spent the rest of the movie doing my best to ignore him. I think I was determined NOT to like him.

Except when the narrative got to Ammon Henn I couldn't ignore him anymore. He was strong, determined, daring to match wills with Boromir. When the movie ended I couldn't wait for the next one.

By the time I'd seen the movie again a year later, I was completely drawn in by movie Frodo. No, he didn't wave a sword around, but he did something better; he went ahead despite his evident terror. Elijah projected Frodo's fear so well that I felt it too. Then he made me believe in Frodo's determination despite his fear, which can't be an easy thing to do.

I came to respect and love Frodo in the movies first. He didn't and still doesn't seem shallow to me. If Elijah had been in the least unconvincing I wouldn't have bothered to read the books, because I had the movies and they were just fine as far as I was concerned.

But he was convincing. Far from shallow, his complex layered mix of emotion kept me rivited, and made him seem like he was in 3D even at moments when the rest of the cast were a little "flat."

I've now read the books twice (which hardly makes me an expert, I know.) Book Frodo is different. He does have a sense of humor, something which Walsh and Boyens seem to have done away with to ratchet up the angst. Yes, I'm dissapointed that they didn't give him some of his strength moments. I would have loved to see him defy the WiKi with Galadriel's glass, but that was cut out for sake of not being repetitive when he used it in Shelob's lair. :rolleyes:

But he's still Frodo, going ahead with determination. Where book Frodo is a bit of conundrum to me, shielding his struggle as he does, from us and from Sam, I feel like MovieFrodo lets me see what is going on inside.

I love the mordor scenes in the movie. Frodo doesn't seem like he's being led by Sam. He seems like he's walking through a parallel landscape of terror and struggle. Sam seems to be there just to move the occassional boulder out of the way, and to pick Frodo up when he's fallen and can't manage on his own, no slight to Sean intended.

I have the books and I have the movies, and I love them both. Sometimes I have to look at the movies as just really, really expensive fan-fic. But where movie Frodo and Book Frodo diverge is really down to how Walsh and Boynes wrote the script, as much as to movie Frodo's relative youth.

I really hope that someday, someone will remake these movies. And I really hope they find someone new to play Frodo, because I want the experience of falling in love with Frodo all over again, despite myself.

As for Elijah looking "weird" :rolleyes: I'm afraid I'll have to disagree. :D The first time I found a picture of him out of the curly wig, and pointy ears, I was blown away by how beautiful he is. Yes, he's exotic looking and not what is currently considered handsome by Hollywood matinee idol standards, but he has a timeless quality. That his beauty comes with a dose of geekiness is just charming as far as I'm concerned! :)

Hugs,
honey!

But I think it's completely legitimate and not at all disloyal to disagree with some of the filmmakers' decisions. I don't think anyone who does so is out to sway anybody else, or to detract from anyone else's enjoyment of the films.

Right you are, Flourish - all of us free to disagree with this or that decision of filmmakers, naturally!
I think, after these 3 years of LOTR movies all of us have some dear LOTR dreams of ours that didn't come true. And never will, alas! :(

For example, tg just said she would always miss the scene at the ford... I, personally will not - there are too many detailes, that disturb me in this book scene, so I frankly prefer the movie one. But as tg, I was very sorry that "The King has his crown " line was given to Sam...

Saying the truth, my personal loss in the movie - most painful for me - was a Cirith Ungol scene between Frodo and Sam. When I read LOTR for the first time more than 20 years ago, that moment became the most impressing and horrific for me in the whole book. Strangely, in CU I was even more shocked than at Mount Doom (at the same level of terror for me was may be only the Wheel of Fire moment)...

I remember my first-reading feelings - when I climbed with Sam up the stairs to the hole in the ceiling, knowing not what was going on there inside... And when I looked in... oh, I gasped! - that terrible sight of Frodo just broke my heart completely and forever! And all following conversation in CU is just great, one of Tolkiens highlights in psychologic writing. Professor was not so strong in this aspect (he's more epic writer than psychologist), but that scene in the CU cell was a pure masterpiece! It is one of my absolute favs in the book...

So when I found our from spoilers, that the CU will be completely different, that was a real big drama for me - the more so, I knew already how good are Wood and Astin in their roles, that they could nail this book scene... I even had a short feeling that I don't want to watch ROTK at all... The feeling had gone soon, of course, but I confess that it did happen! ;) But, well, later I learned to live with the movie CU scene - the boys anyway did it very well. But I'm still dreaming how great it could be... Alas!

I would only add one further tidbit to this great discussion. I had always felt that Frodo's actions were somewhat unrealistic in the book. He is, after all, at the heart, a country gentleman, from a land that has only known peace and tranquility. Why should we assume that he would a) be able to fearlessly defend himself with a sword against much bigger foes when he has, in all likelihood, never even picked up a sword before, b) be able to ride a full-sized horse after being stabbed by an enchanted blade, even if that horse was elven-trained, c) not be fully and completely terrified of the weird creatures he encounters, despite Bilbo's stories, etc.?

The Frodo of the book is a bit too good to be true, in some cases, and movie!Frodo, by making him younger and possibly more naive of the world, (" I think in his heart Frodo is still in love with the Shire: the woods, the fields...little rivers..."), is much more realistic. He is presented as a being of unusual character, but not necessarily an unusual Hobbit ("My dear Frodo. Hobbits really are amazing creatures! You can learn all that there is to know about their ways in a month, and yet after a hundred years, they can still surprise you."). He steps up when necessary because of his innate courage, even in the face of incredible odds. To me, this' PJ's greatest service to the book -- he rights what I find to be an unnecessarily macho anomaly.

ETA: After reading what Rikka just wrote, I agree. I think ROTK suffered without the inherent brutality of the Cirith Ungol scene as written, and I miss it every time I watch the film.

Also ETA: Re: the discussion about the EE DVD additions. The one that has always bothered me is in Fellowship. We have Frodo asking Gandalf, "What's the elvish word for 'friend'?" at the gates of Moria. Ok -- I can buy that. The Frodo of the movie doesn't speak elvish. However, in the EE, the scene is added where Strider is singing the Lay of Luthien, and Frodo wakes up and asks, "Who is this woman you sing of?" He obviously knows enough elvish to understand the song, but he doesn't know the word for friend??? Not likely!

I had always felt that Frodo's actions were somewhat unrealistic in the book. He is, after all, at the heart, a country gentleman, from a land that has only known peace and tranquility. Why should we assume that he would a) be able to fearlessly defend himself with a sword against much bigger foes when he has, in all likelihood, never even picked up a sword before, b) ride a full-sized horse after being stabbed by an enchanted blade, even if that horse was elven-trained, c) not be fully and completely terrified of the weird creatures he encounters, despite Bilbo's stories, etc.?

The Frodo of the book is a bit too good to be true, in some cases, and movie!Frodo, by making him younger and possibly more naive of the world, is much more realistic. He is presented as a being of unusual character, but not necessarily an unusual Hobbit . He steps up when necessary because of his inate courage, even in the face of incredible odds. To me, this' PJ's greatest service to the book -- he rights what I find to be an unnecessarily macho anomaly.

(((Achila)))
Shake your hand! And I'm with you! At your unnecessarily macho anomaly I laughed to tears! :lol: Right you are - "to good, to be true"! One of the things that I love in PJ's movies - that PJ and EW made Frodo for me very realistic in the whole story (not only in Books 2, and my beloved Books 4 and 6!).

In fact for me this "to good, to be true" apply only to some Frodo moments from Book 1 of FOTR. Once I already spoke out my problems with the Weathertop scene in the book - that I love it and believe in it only in the 3d wording of FOTR and in the movie, but I definetely don't believe in Frodo Weathertop acting in final wording of the book and don't like the story about fighting the Witch King with his sword.

I'm rereading FOTR now (this time outloud, to my aunt, who has problems with eyes and can't read now herself, but she loves LOTR and wants to read it again). So, reading FOTR, I again had a feeling that in Book 1 I can't believe some Frodo scenes - they are too heroic in fairy-tale-ish style, comparing to piercing realistic feeling of Emin Muil, Dead Marshes, CU or Mordor.

BTW,
I read Hobbit first (when I was 10). I liked it, but it was not my fav book. Never liked Bilbo so much! I read LOTR for the first time only at 17 - and was immediately and completely blown away. Since that time Frodo - my absolute favorite literature character. The second (very close) one - prince Myshkine from "The Idiot" by Feodor Dostoievsky - the character, which has many emotional ans ideologic connections with Frodo, if to tell the truth.

Good Morning.....and Afternoon :)

Have been lurking in on the discussions here and have to say they are quite shall we say highly spirited :rolleyes:
Had to laugh when TG mentioned disagreements re: All I Want since I was involved in that spirited discussion :D
Like Flourish , I too have recently been re-reading LotR, and this is my 3rd time reading it...the first when I was a tween and then again after seeing all three movies last year, so I've always been a novice in discussions re: book Frodo and movie Frodo...however, I do have my own opinion on whether Sam is driving the quest or not
I think Sam is only driving Frodo to complete the task that was given and accepted by him..at no time did I ever get the impression that it was Sam that was pushing or driving Frodo...he merely was there to assist and aid Frodo as a friend(or in the book...a servant)would do...IIRC didn't Gandalf give Sam that job?
The only time I felt Sam was driving Frodo onward was in RotK when Frodo was in danger of losing himself to the power of the ring...not so much driving the actual mission but essentially picking Frodo up to complete the task Frodo was committed to(he emotionally picked him up and carried him long before he physically did)
As far as the Crossroads scene...I agree that even when you intellectually know something is futile your mind still hopes even against all odds that you will make it back ..I guess that opinion comes from the fact that as a nurse ,that used to work on a cancer unit, I've personally seen people,thru the shear conviction of their will ,make it back
I'm not as scholarly as many of you,in regards to the masterpiece Tolkien created, but I do appreciate both the books and the movies
There will always be differences in the way we look at and interpret both the books and the movies
Let's just agree to disagree...I always love to look at things from a different pov sometimes I see what I didn't notice before...diversity is a wonderful thing :k

Now...as far as All I Want ......... :D ;)

No, no, Rikka, I am not angry. I was just pointing out to the original poster (can't even recall who it was!) that, while it was possible to be a movie first fan of Frodo, I was fairly sure that the film version of Frodo alone wouldn't have interested me. That's just my opinion and I am comfortable with it. I don't feel as much of a need to have others agreeing with me as I did when I first started posting because I have found that, in many areas, I see things very differently than most, both in RL and in this fandom. That's OK. While I enjoy this thread and the information it brings to light, I have been, for the most part, able to let folks have their opinions without shoving mine into the mix. And that, along with usually being woefully behind reading the thread, are probably why I don't post here very often.

Ariel

as a nurse ,that used to work on a cancer unit, I've personally seen people,thru the shear conviction of their will ,make it back
Ylla, you give me shivers. What a wonderful perspective.

Just sounding like a broken record here. Thank you all again for continuing this illuminating discussion. Illuminating to me -- the different perspectives you bring are just what I need to hear to help me appreciate the movies almost as much as the books. ;)

I have to say that it was film Frodo's vulnerability that made me want to take him home and give him some TLC and got me hooked to the films. Had he been more of a leader type, older, less cute, I might not be here now 12 months later, reading the books for the 2nd time and buying encyclopedias of Tolkien's world to help myself understand Middle Earth better.
Skater girl, this made my day. :k That is just what I could have wished from the movies, that they drew people into the magic of Middle Earth that I lost myself in years ago. It really is a compliment to Elijah, that he was able to reach out so well given the restrictions (to me) of his truncated dialogue and character portrayal. I will try to relax now. :)

Then there was the mithril shirt scene in Rivendell. It just seemed like such a cheese-cake moment, like it stepped out of the story too much, to make us all look a that annoyingly pretty actor somemore.
LOL! Loved your story, Honey! I suppose I'm a sucker for beauty. I didn't see that particular scene as a cheesecake shot, as much as the Moria "revealing of the coat" one. But I liked them both. ;) Even on first viewing, Elijah's beauty was something that blew me away. It's not exactly "pretty" -- Legolas was pretty and I liked it. But Elijah had something more, some genuine quality, that had me hanging on his every move. Not to disparage the other performances, but it was Elijah who got me into the theatre those 30 or so times.

Personaly I'm still a bit angry at PJ for the Rivendell mithril coat scene ;) - Bilbo transforming in monstrous thing is like from some class B horror movie! (ironicaly this is an absolute book canon! :D)

Frankly, I don't think that EW is beautiful in real life... For me more appropriate word is unusual, special..... while I can't judge, because I saw him only on TV screen, not in reality.
But as Frodo he's absolutely beautiful. Watching him in some scenes (for example - flight from MD in the eagle's claws) I just think: how such beauty is possible in this life? It is not human beauty , but angelic, elvish...

He obviously knows enough elvish to understand the song, but he doesn't know the word for friend???
Achila,
may be movie_Frodo knows one elvish language (for example, "modern" Sindarin) and don't know the old one, Quenia? This could be a kind of logic explanation. ;) It seems to me that Aragorn sings a song about Luthien in Singarin (he always speaks this language exept the rithual coronation song). But in what language "mellon" (friend) is - Quenia or Sindarin? Or even some other dialect? I'm not strong in elvish languages at all, so we need to ask someone who knows better... :D

P.S. Dear ladies, I want to thank all of you for today's discussion. It was very interesting! To learn such different points of view is an exiting thing!

The perils of book to screen, as Young Miss Ceefour has learned the hard way with "A Series of Unfortunate Events." "THAT wasn't in the books,and (insert numerous scenes from books here) was left out!"

This day's discussion has been lively! One solution, and it has been proposed before, is to have the movie cast read the books. EW saying, "It is gone for ever," he said, "and all is dark and empty." Sigh.

Honeyelf and Alyon, could you mention this possibility when you travel to ORC next week?

(The only change I can't make work no matter how I try is Arwen's life being tied to the fate of the Ring. I thought the first time I saw ROTK, "Oh, that's just stupid!" and was pulled rather abruptly out of ME, and was never really able to get back into the movie after that.)

C4

From Pelagia
But there’s knowing and KNOWING. And maybe the point of the Crossroads scene is that Frodo’s “intellectual” awareness is finally being backed up by “visceral” awareness of his probable fate: oh my god, I’m really NOT coming back.
From Rikka
Frodo know that his mission is in fact suicidal – and step by step accepted this idea intellectually. [ ] And at Crossroads a complete understanding of this knowing – that he will die, and die very soon - overhelmed him completely, to the innermost of his heart....

I find both these quotes very interesting, because they perfectly describe what I see in Frodo, as he stands at the riverbank at the end of FotR.

In my view, when Frodo leaves his home to take the Ring as far as Bree, he knows he's in great danger. This gets pressed home on him by the terrible events along the way: If he carries the Ring, he is in mortal danger. But he still has hope - hope that he can give the Ring to someone else, someone more strong and wise than him, who'll take better care of it, - hope that he himself can go home.

When he accepts to take the Ring to Mordor at the Council, that's when he intellectually accepts that he in all likelihood will die... From then on, his *brain* tells him he is going to die, but his *heart* still hopes.

Then, after the events along the way; - Gandalf's death, Galadriel's words and warning, Boromir's succumbing to the Ring and his harsh words: When Frodo stands at the riverbank - that is when he accepts in his heart and being that he is going to his death. He grieves, he is afraid, he says goodbye to his life, and then he steels himself and goes on. But from then on, he knows to the very core of his being that he is on a suicide mission - he has accepted to give all he has and to lay down his life for the sake of his homeland and the world. That's what "Endurance beyond hope" is about, to me.

As his quest continues, he despairs on more than one occasion. He is in pain, he is afraid, he's being beaten down again and again, he nearly succumbs, but manages to fight back and to resist and to take one step more. And another. And another. But at the heart of all that is his knowedge, in mind and heart and soul, that eventually he won't be able to take that one step more, he'll have given his all, he will have done all he can, and that is what he has committed himself to. But he will not return. He accepted that at the end of FotR.

This is why that scene of sudden realization that he "won't be coming back" at the Crossroads has disappointed me so: It completely undermines the way I've looked at Frodo as explained above; - the way I see it, he can only have such a profound epiphany once, his complete acceptance can only happen once.


I can and will continue to see Film-Frodo as I've done before. I can and will love him just as much. I still love the films with all my heart, different as they are from the books. I will completely disregard that one scene when I think of "my" FilmFrodo and my interpretation of his characterization, his development, his humilityand courage, determination and inner strength. I can do that, after the initial schock and disappointment have abated.

The "Endurance beyond hope" aspect is however so very vital and integral to my love for Frodo - book and film Frodos both. And I cannot any longer believe that the scriptwriters saw FilmFrodo the way I do when it comes to this. I think they really *did* want to portray him as innocently and somewhat naively hoping for the best nearly to the bitter end, someone who needed encouragement and reassurance of a silver lining to be convinced to go on. This to me significantly diminishes the portrayal of his character, his sacrifice. I cannot any more believe that PJ gave Elijah direction to *be *my* Frodo; - though Elijah's wonderfully, beautifully expressive and wordlessly eloquent acting makes me completely see *my* Frodo nevertheless.

I don't know why my changed view as to the scriptwriters' and director's intention disappoints me so; - but it really does. And worse: This has largely taken from me the interest in discussing the films and FilmFrodo further - something I didn't think would *ever* happen.


It's very good to see that others here do not feel the same way, and so are eager to continue the discussions. It would be a sad, sad thing otherwise.

Maeglian, I agree completely about film Frodo and his epiphany. That's why I think Frodo's feelings about Sam and his (to Frodo bizarre) rationing of the lembas bread are so transparent in ROTK, and why the Crossroads line so oddly undermines and confuses them. Thanks for posting that.

I know some fans are able to "accept" the films only (or accept them better) after working out for themselves how their inconsistencies actually fit the book or in fact conform to canon or really show the whole of book Frodo in some minute and subtle way. But I think there are quite a few oddities in the films that just can't be talked away, that the writers knew and accepted (even intended) them, and that it's OK to just admit that they're there and they're odd and live with them. I love the films in spite of those things, frankly.

As for the way the writers saw Frodo, I was frankly shocked at some of their ROTK EE commentary. It's so obvious there that they were trying to tell their OWN story, albeit based on Tolkien's, and also that they were hamstrung by some of their earlier plot choices and by their strangely episodic approach to character development, as well as plainly confused by the constant changes they themselves were making to the script. It's amazing to hear them excuse the things they didn't do well with Frodo, for instance, by saying, "Well, we came to that realization so late"--it makes me want to ask, "What were you doing for six years that you only thought of this in pick-ups or whatever?" And then they always laugh and say, "Well, we got there in the end, didn't we," when in some cases they didn't at all.

They're honest, I'll give them that, but I agree it's disappointing to see how little regard they had for some of the most important underpinnings. Well, let me rephrase that--we could already see, from FOTR, the disregard. What's disappointing now is to hear them laughing about it.

But I'm sorry it's put you off talking about the films, Maeglian. This has been the most interesting LOTR conversation I've had in a while.

Honest, I will leave soon - just keep getting these silly notices in my inbox and since I have let myself answer one, I can't seem to shut my yap.

I also totally agree with Maeglian - that is exactly how I read the TE (after a bit of wrangling and LOOKING for what I wanted to see) and how I felt seeing that 'What? You mean this is a suicide mission?' scene in the EE.

They're honest, I'll give them that, but I agree it's disappointing to see how little regard they had for some of the most important underpinnings. Well, let me rephrase that--we could already see, from FOTR, the disregard. What's disappointing now is to hear them laughing about it.

I've come to look at it as them having little regard for what I see as the most important part of the story. I have tried to give them the benefit of the doubt by thinking that perhaps they had different priorities and likes and dislikes. Few people I know really 'get' Frodo the way I do - I don't find it all that surprising that PJ and Co. don't either.

But it is disappointing, I agree. I hope someone redoes this film too - though I fear by the time it happens I won't be around to see it. I'd like to see another's take on these characters, and though I will heartily agree that EW makes the perfect Frodo, I am not as enthusiastic about the direction or the script he was given.

Ariel

*somewhat delurking* :)
Rikka,
I think, after these 3 years of LOTR movies all of us have some dear LOTR dreams of ours that didn't come true. And never will, alas!
Personally, my LOTR dream was The Mouth of Sauron. As I've said before, Frodo wasn't even in it but it's my favorite book-Frodo moment. I was devastated when Frodo's things were shown. I even marked the spot in my book that I read in the early-70's and I still have that book. But I equally adore movie-Frodo and *whispers* fan-fiction Frodo. But we won't go there, from here. I do not have a talent for writing or for expressing my feelings that way or even verbally. I tend to keep them private and I am fine with that. Even my family shakes their heads at my more-than-what-would-be-considered-normal interest in LOTR and EJW! They just don't have that sight that we all share and as someone said previously, the more for us than. I really enjoy reading the posts in here and have agreed with some and disagreed with others but I always visit. Okay, I'm here daily but who's keeping track...
Ylla,
Now...as far as All I Want .........
My discussion bane was Paradise. Not one of my EJW favorites. I don't think Elijah is "handsome" but he has yet to reach the age when I believe men become that both in looks and real-life experience. He is very unique, beautiful eyes, and smile. I never get tired of looking. He will be handsome, I have no doubt about that. I'll then be in my rocking chair telling the grandkids to just put in that movie I like and I'll be content till my dying day...

I have had an awesome time over at the Quote Game. I love looking back in the books to find the quote given. I am continually amazed at what an immense amount of detail and story there is contained in that volume of work. Moments I have forgotten...I must remedy that!!

Back to *somewhat lurking*. :cool:

[This has been written in bits and pieces over about 4 hours at work, so is probably way behind the thread by now.]
...the way I see it, he can only have such a profound epiphany once, his complete acceptance can only happen once.
(((Maeg))) This is where I see it very differently, and, without speaking for her, I'd guess Sheryl would, too. I still cry sometimes about things I "completely accepted" 20 years ago. Parents can accept that their child is terminally ill, only to have hope spark up and then die again--and the dying doesn't get any easier each time just because they've been through it before. Sheryl compared it to marriage, where there are some things that have to be accepted over and over. The way I see it, Frodo had to constantly renew that acceptance or he couldn't have kept going.

IMVHO, Frodo's endurance beyond hope would be much shallower if he "only" had to accept the finality of his journey once. But every time he put one foot in front of the other, he had to accept it again. Accepting that--and accepting the fact that the Ring was slowly eating him alive--and to keep going anyway is what most amazes me about his heroism. Because he could have stopped at any time, at any one of those moments when he had to decide again to continue. It never reaches a point where it's easy for him.

But, actually, that's not my primary "interpretation" of the scene in the EE. After watching both Elijah and Sean closely there, what I see is Frodo trying to find a way to talk to Sam about what he sees as the end of the journey--and finding Sam not ready to listen. That's so clear to me, in fact, that I have difficulty having a hard time with this scene (if that makes any sense :confused: ). It took place so soon after the lembas rationing scene (if we stick with Frodo and Sam's storyline), that it seems natural to connect the two: First, Frodo realizing that Sam thinks they're going home (which seems to surprise him, or he wouldn't have asked "For what?" so quizzically). Then, very shortly afterward, Frodo knowing that he has to try to approach the subject with Sam--which could have been much harder for him than realizing it for himself.

I don't deny that I like to find ways to "rationalize" my way into enjoying various scenes, but I really don't feel like I'm doing that here. What I find myself ignoring from the EE is a lot of what the writers said (I've still only listened to the first half of both cast & writers' commentaries). I don't really care what the writers thought they were doing. IMO, LotR has the tendency to go beyond what people consciously try to do with it, whether it's a reader or a "very expensive fanfic" writer.

I will completely disregard that one scene when I think of "my" FilmFrodo and my interpretation of his characterization, his development, his humilityand courage, determination and inner strength.
Something DVDs make so simple, especially when it comes to the EEs. (And I do think a lot of things in the EEs are there just because "the fans want to see [whatever]" and totally don't fit in or stay consistent with the rest of the movie. I have no compunction at all at leaving them completely out of my personal version. As I think I've said before, my guess is that the real reason the scene we're talking about ended up in the EE at all was because they knew a lot of people--myself included, I'll admit--wanted to see the headless king.)

There are a few things in the FotR-EE that I dislike so much I've watched them only once or twice, and have to stop and think when they're brought up in a discussion. One of them is the entire EE version of Lothlorien. I know a lot of people love it, but IMHO it makes no sense storywise to have Frodo a "scapegoat" there, keeping the others from entering. He was the one Galadriel and Celeborn were waiting for. I much prefer Haldir flashing his eyes directly at Frodo when he says, "Come. She is waiting." As far as I'm concerned, the EE version isn't even part of the movie.

That's just an example, and I'd guess we each have different ones.

I don't know why my changed view as to the scriptwriters' and director's intention disappoints me so; - but it really does. And worse: This has largely taken from me the interest in discussing the films and FilmFrodo further - something I didn't think would *ever* happen.
I hope after their commentary fades from memory a bit, your disappointment lessens some, too. Tolkien admitted that there were a lot of things in the book that he hadn't meant to put there. If that could happen with him, I think it's even more likely that it's happened with the screenwriters/directors. IMVHO there's a lot in these movies they never meant to put there. Some of it, as has been mentioned, seems to be there in spite of them. But, if Tolkien readers can discuss things in his writing that he never meant to put there (and we do!), how much more we should be able to do that with these movies. As long as we don't say, "This is what Tolkien meant," or "This is what PJ meant," we're free to interpret them any way that makes sense to us. (And Elijah has said he wants his audience to do that with regard to his acting, so I'm willing :) .)

There's something about this story, and these characters, that transcends limits placed on them. When PJ went looking for a Frodo who was "magic," I think he got more than he bargained for. Not that there aren't some things I deeply wish were different, but that's just because they could have been so much better. If you compare these movies to most films made from books, they're amazingly good. If you compare them to LotR, well... How could anything live up to it?

Beautifully put, TG, especially your explanation of the Crossroads scene, which I'll now watch with a new respect.

I also agree with your comment concerning the EE Lothlorien scene, except for one little item--I absolutely love the way Boromir comforts Frodo in that scene, which makes Boromir's betrayal later all the more heart wrenching.

Frodo's every step forward was an acceptance of the Quest and its one-way direction, I agree. But I also agree that his film realization that it would literally kill him, and that he therefore had to go alone, the epiphany at the river that Maeglian described, could only happen once.

I don't really think Frodo had the heart to make Sam aware of what he thought about it. Nor did he really have anything to gain by undermining Sam's optimism. It's an interesting interpretation of the Crossroads scene, but if it's what the writers had in mind, I think they took him out of character there again.

IMVHO, Frodo's endurance beyond hope would be much shallower if he "only" had to accept the finality of his journey once. [ ] accepting the fact that the Ring was slowly eating him alive--and to keep going anyway is what most amazes me about his heroism. [ ] It never reaches a point where it's easy for him. This is of course entirely my opinion too - and I do not really see how you can read my post otherwise, or think that I would be of any other opinion, having also read my many previous posts on this subject over several years. Of course it never gets *easy* for him. Of course he doesn't just accept his own imminent death once and move on as if nothing happened. Endurance beyond hope to me shows Frodo taking one step at the time, despite *continuously* being close to despair, being full of fear, being beaten down and nearly crushed by the Ring, and also being without the tiny comfort of a hope that he'll at least perhaps manage to achieve his quest before he dies his certain death. Despite it all he goes on. It's about as far from "easy" as it's possible to get, I suppose.

In the matter of the "epiphany" I disagree with you. The first-time terrible shock of realization, the epiphany moment, can only happen once in the way I mean it. It's a watershed moment. It doesn't mean that new strong waves of similar feelings won't hit later on, of course, reminding of the first, but it won't be the same - and certainly not for the way I see Frodo and his continuous acceptance and knowledge of being on a suicide mission. Nor do I see any logic to the filmmakers' needing to show 2 such moments without the second cancelling out the tremendous impact and clarity and pain of the first. Having listened to the director's / scriptwriters' comments track over this scene just reinforces my view.

I suppose we shall just have to agree to disagree.

I don't know why my changed view as to the scriptwriters' and director's intention disappoints me so; - but it really does. And worse: This has largely taken from me the interest in discussing the films and FilmFrodo further .

(((Maeg))),
I reaaly sorry to hear that you feel like that after SEE and comments - I'm realy sorry for you. :( I'm even feel myself a bit guilty being so happy with SEE movie and Frodo in it, when some other is so unhappy. But may be, when some time pass, everything will become easier for you and not so painful... At least, I hope.

Personally, director/writers comments don't bother me at all. I listen to them with interest. In some points we have mutual views. Some of their decisions they managed o justify for me rationally and I accepted them... Some others I did not... But, well, they are not me and see this story with their own eyes, not mine. Yeah, they are definetely try to tell their OWN story, based on the one by Tolkien, but I think they have a right to do it. This is THEIR film, their turn for sub-creation. They have a right to do it.

May be for me it is a bit easier - to accept this feedom, because I always liked to play with the "historical" consept of Middle-Earth (that Professor invented himself), thinking about LOTR not as a novel. literature fiction, but as about a story that was found in old manuscripts, based on some real events in the ansient history of Mankind... So we don't know, how it was in reality - Professor just translated and retelled this story for us, using old documents! ;) But if he could interpete it, why the others could not? May be PJ found some other manuscripts, lost library of Minas Tirith? ;) And he made his reconstarction for the movie, basing on addition material, too?

In fact, Tolkien reached his goal. He wanted to create a Mythology - and he did it! And this mythology now started to live its own life, independing from him... I love the statement that PJ put in the very begining of his LOTR - about history becoming a legend and legend turning to myth. IMHO, the main difference between book and movie - different measures of history, legend and myth in them. In PJ's version a "history" component of the mix (most realistic of all) is dominating.

The way I see it, Frodo had to constantly renew that acceptance or he couldn't have kept going. Frodo's endurance beyond hope would be much shallower if he "only" had to accept the finality of his journey once. But every time he put one foot in front of the other, he had to accept it again. Accepting that--and accepting the fact that the Ring was slowly eating him alive--and to keep going anyway is what most amazes me about his heroism.

tg
bravo! You are eloquent as always. I completely agree with this your comment.
And I like your additional explanation to Crossroads scene. I adree, it seems very logical and acceptable... while for me it anyway will be secondary to the "knowing and knowing" meaning.

As for FOTR SEE Lorien scenes, I have different point of view. In fact I love them. For me they work better that in theatrical cut. For me a "scapegoat" theme there is quite interesting and intriguing. I admire it and even once created a long theory, fitting it in the whole movie... :) And I absolutely love Boromir-Frodo scene in it, too! They both are great in it.

I don't really think Frodo had the heart to make Sam aware of what he thought about it. Nor did he really have anything to gain by undermining Sam's optimism. It's an interesting interpretation of the Crossroads scene, but if it's what the writers had in mind, I think they took him out of character there again.

This is another excellent point that I wholeheartedly agree with. Thank you for bringing it up. Even if film Frodo was to have multiple epiphanys (which makes little sense filmatically. I've heard some say the inclusion of this scene was for those who couldn't remember as far back as film one, but if so, why include it in the EE which is reportedly 'for the fans' who would be unlikely to have forgotten it?) he'd be unlikely to have one in plain view of Sam, one whose hope and bright spirit he would never consider crushing. Yes, out of character is quite what I felt too. Like Maeglian, I guess I will chose to ignore it (which I already do with Osgiliath, the other 'Buck up, little camper!' moment :rolleyes: )

Ariel
(OK, OK, but if the conversation wasn't so interesting, I would have been gone hours ago :p)

Like Maeglian, I guess I will chose to ignore it (which I already do with Osgiliath, the other 'Buck up, little camper!' moment :rolleyes: )


This is very funny, almost unbelievable how different all of us are!
You know, Ariel, Osgiliath scene that you ignore, is one is my absolute favorites in TTT movie... Fantastic! Every time we have exactly the opposite opinion! :D

OK, so I wasn't going to discuss this.... :rolleyes:

I don't really think Frodo had the heart to make Sam aware of what he thought about it.

The Frodo-cluing-in-Sam explanation does not seem at all logical to me. Firstly, because I cannot see it in the scene itself the way it plays out (Frodo seems to truly have a sudden realization - would the filmmakers' really think the audience would understand he said those lines that way to clue in Sam?) Secondly, because of the reason Flourish mentions; - why should Frodo want to destroy Sam's optimism - the one he seems to admire and be so very amazed and stunned by just before, in the lembas rationing scene? Thirdly, because this is far from the way PJ&Co. explain it in their commentary. And fourthly (is that a word?) because that would run completely contrary to the "often accepted" reason for Frodo's later line about there being no water for the return journey: That he's trying to keep up a charade of planning that far ahead, in order to support Sam's diminishing hope for a return journey.

And with that I'm leaving - good luck and have fun with the further discussions! :)

Rikka -

Actually, that is pretty funny.

I respect your right to interpret things as suits you, but, and I hope you won't take offense at this, I doubt I'll be asking you to redecorate my house any time soon.

:p

Ariel

why should Frodo want to destroy Sam's optimism - the one he seems to admire and be so very amazed and stunned by just before, in the lembas rationing scene?

Maeg
Do you realy read Frodo's reaction in the lembas rationing scene as admiring Sam's optimism? Well, I read this scene in the opposite way - IMHO, Frodo not only deeply suprised that Sam didn't realise that their jouney is a one way ticket. He's irritated and very uneasy when he found it out. For Frodo this is an additional burden and a painful shock - to realise that Sam still has some illusions, that he doesn't understand what is really going on. He feels himself guilty because he knows that he's in fact leading Sam to death. And feels that they could have problems of additional misunderstanding exactly at the hardest part of the quest, when the should trust and understand each other completely... This could create additional risk to the quest...

And fourthly (is that a word?) because that would run completely contrary to the "often accepted" reason for Frodo's later line about there being no water for the return journey: That he's trying to keep up a charade of planning that far ahead, in order to support Sam's diminishing hope for a return journey.
I also read the water shearing scene quite differently. IMHO, Frodo's line about no water for return journey sounds like some kind of - I'm sorry, I know that you are dreaming about the way back, but I must drink this water, because without this water I just can't go on and i must... please, understand me and dont blame me for ruining your hope for return... Frodo has a heavy feeling in his heart, he feels quite uneasy, because they still have no understading in this matter. So for Frodo there is a geat relief, when Sam replies in fact that now he understard his master completely - yes, you was right, no journey back for us... Since this moment they are completely united, no more misunderstandings and tention between them...

And IMHO this scene is set much better after adding the "Just a feeling" scene - because this is logical conclusion "coming back theme (that started and developed in lembas rationing and Crossroads scenes).

I hope you won't take offense at this, I doubt I'll be asking you to redecorate my house any time soon.
Don't worry, Ariel, I'm not touchy... But you will never be my decorator, too! :lol: Seems you and I have totaly polarized tastes!

I don't really think Frodo had the heart to make Sam aware of what he thought about it. Nor did he really have anything to gain by undermining Sam's optimism. It's an interesting interpretation of the Crossroads scene, but if it's what the writers had in mind, I think they took him out of character there again.

Forgive me if I've misunderstood what you intended Flourish but I think this scene is actually a good mirror, albeit a little late, of the scene in the BOOK, The Two Towers (and one of my very favorite passages.) Sam asks what they are going to do about their dwindling supply of lembas, and Frodo answers:But Samwise Gamgee, my dear hobbit - indeed, Sam my dearest hobbit, freind of friends - I do not think we need give thought to what comes after that. To do the job as you put it - what hope is there that we ever shall? And if we do, who knows what will come of that? If the One goes into the Fire, and we are at hand? I ask you, Sam , are we ever likely to need bread again? I think not. If we can nurse our limbs to bring us to Mount Doom, that is all we can do. More than I can, I begin to feel.

That speach, and Sam's reaction to it, always make me cry. :(

As I now interpret the movie Crossroad scene - as an extension of the previous one where Sam says he's been rationing - this is not at all out of character for Frodo. He's gentle but honest about what he anticipates lies ahead. He's quite plainly telling Sam that there is no hope. And in the book, too, Sam still doesn't give up hope. Though he pledges, by his tears, to follow Frodo to whatever end.

honey!



.

Well, Honey, having made the decision not to have Frodo actually say that in the film when Sam brings up the issue of rationing, the writers went down a different road altogether and opted for something much more spare and subtle, a real show-don't-tell bit of screenplay that you probably couldn't have done half so well in a book and for which I've given them due credit elsewhere. Film Frodo's look and his question, "Enough for what?" convey so clearly to the audience that he sees no return but seem to leave Sam thinking, "There he goes again, impractical as ever. Doesn't he realize we have to eat on the way back? Sheesh! Good thing I came along." And Frodo lets it be. I think he's a little surprised that Sam doesn't get it, but he lets it rest.

Wisely, I think, the filmmakers too let the matter drop for a time, until--and forgive me for repeating my earlier post--we come to the waterskin scene. Now the two are down to no supplies at all, and no hope of any more. Frodo can't pretend to Sam that he's buying the return journey story now--their situation is too dire, their condition too wretched, and the land too inhospitable to ignore. But ever tactful, ever gentle, ever mindful of how differently Sam sees the world--not to mention drained and exhausted--he gently mentions the return journey as if he's been believing in it too, testing to see whether Sam can acknowledge yet that it isn't on. Personally I think this is one of Sean's finest moments.

The beauty part is how much is conveyed with so few words. Frodo is saying, "You know now, don't you, I don't have to tell you," and Sam is saying, "I know now, and you knew a long time ago, and you were right, and I'm still with you."

So, once again, the Crossroads conversation is running along a completely other track for me, putting everything that was brilliantly conveyed in those two subtle and cinematic scenes into clumsy and unnecessary and poorly timed tell-don't-show words. It's not even a logical paragraph in the ongoing conversation Frodo and Sam are not-quite-having about the end of the quest. So as a film scene, it definitely feels tacked on to me, its content all out of sequence, and I can make no narrative sense of it. It really messes with a good thing.

But do I still love the film? Of course. In each of the EEs there are a few miscellaneous-feeling moments that didn't make the theatrical cut for what now look like pretty good reasons. This is simply one of them. It's "pretty," if you like, but it just doesn't make sense in the context established by the writers' main storyline. I don't need it to make sense in order to appreciate the fine acting there or whatever; I'm just happier not trying to make it make sense.

And I think I've worn myself out on this one, folks. ;)

[I've added a couple of "ETA"s where they fit in the post. :) .]

It's hard to know what to say, because when I read the questions posed, I feel as if I've given any responses I might have, but maybe I could try to clarify a few...

---One thing is that I don't see the "just a feeling" moment as a big epiphany. I see it as one of those "moments along the way" where Frodo is just having a difficult time. That's where my "one foot in front of the other" comments were trying to lead--I'm sorry I wasn't clear enough to get them there. I wasn't trying to say that we have different views of Frodo's heroism, but that we seem to have different views on the moment we see in the "just a feeling" scene. I see it as one of those many, many recommitments he had to make along the way, rather than as a unique realization.

I just don't see an epiphany in that blank face. It seems to be the first time Frodo's said this out loud to Sam, but that doesn't mean it's a new discovery for Frodo, and I don't think it is. Elijah's acting may be subtle ( and he does "nothingness" wonderfully), but IMVHO if Frodo was having his first gut-level realization that he's going to die, we'd see some emotion.

That's also one reason I think he's speaking for Sam's sake. I don't see him having a sudden realization in that scene--just a sudden need to tell Sam what he feels, probably because of the lembas rationing which occurred not that long before.

---And I agree with Rikka in that I don't think Frodo's admiring Sam's optimism; I think he's surprised and worried by it. "Why should Frodo want to destroy Sam's optimism?" Because he doesn't want to be responsible for taking Sam to his death without Sam realizing what's happening and having the chance to accept it or not, as Frodo has. And I believe he's even more concerned after Sam gives his little "pep talk," because it's not the response he was hoping to get. I've just gone through my screencaps again to see if I can read things differently, but I can't... Frodo is much more worried after Sam speaks than he is before, and he's worried about Sam.

In the book, Frodo certainly tries to dash Sam's hope about the matter, and I think he was right to do so. [ETA: Honey posted the quote I was most thinking of, and I think even Frodo's dark sense of humor was sometimes an attempt to pull Sam into reality.] In the movie, Frodo's not as direct with Sam--I have more of a problem with him not being direct enough than I do with him making a stab at trying to get Sam to look at reality. IMHO, it would be against character for Frodo to try to be dishonest with Sam about his hopes. It wouldn't be fair to Sam.

For the same reason, I've never seen the last water scene as Frodo trying to keep up a charade. I saw it more as an "Okay, do you get it now?" moment. And that time, Sam does, thank goodness.

But it's possible that one of the main reasons I see this differently than some is that I don't give a #$%#&* what PJ and Co. say about it in the commentary. IMVVVHO what they wanted here ain't what they got--and I'm very happy about that. The "In spite of" factor probably isn't as high in this scene as it is at the Grey Havens, but I do think it's there.

And why was this scene put into the version for the fans? Because they knew some of us wanted to see the headless king. I have to say that I truly believe that's the only reason it ended up in the EE. For some reason, which I admit I don't quite understand, they consider it to be one continuous scene; at least that's how it's listed in the scene index.

[ETA: I honestly, scout's honor, wrote this next paragraph before I saw Flourish's latest post :p , although it might not sound like it. I have a hard time understanding the problems some have with this scene, and I'm especially sorry that it's hurting some people's enjoyment of the movie--but I don't think it's at all necessary or even that it's an improvement over what was there--But I really did want to see that headless king, even if they screwed up the lines; I can always mute the sound and imagine :) ..]

Even though I don't think the scene hurts Frodo characterwise, I think it's redundant, cobbled into place, hurts the flow, doesn't help the continuity, and isn't completely consistent with the rest of the movie. But, IMHO, that's true of a majority of EE scenes for all three movies. They tried to do something different by working the added scenes into the movie, instead of having a "deleted scenes" feature, as most DVDs do, but I sometimes wonder if that was the best choice.

Even though I don't think the scene hurts Frodo characterwise, I think it's redundant, cobbled into place, hurts the flow, doesn't help the continuity, and isn't completely consistent with the rest of the movie. But, IMHO, that's true of a majority of EE scenes for all three movies. They tried to do something different by working the added scenes into the movie, instead of having a "deleted scenes" feature, as most DVDs do, but I sometimes wonder if that was the best choice.

I was actually quite disapointed with the long awaited extra scenes in ROTK and much prefer the TE, and I have never seen the TE of TT to have the comparison, but as a non reader of the books, I would have found the EE of FOTR very helpful compared to the TE, which was my first intro to Tolkien. I kept having to stop the video tape to ask hubby for background information and explanations of relationships, and then when I later saw the EE I realised that much of my initial confusion was explained in the extra scenes.

I come to this without the passion for, or depth of knowledge of the books that many of you have, and I have followed the Crossroads Scene discussion with intently. Even without a prior interest as to the exact the content of the scene, it did on first watching seem to stand out amongst other new scenes as a completely unneccessary, rather short and brisk interruption to the flow of the story I was getting nicely involved in. As I look at it again now, it occured to me that perhaps with all the extended and new scenes following our last view of Frodo and Sam 28 minutes into the film, PJ felt it was high time to bring the viewer back to them after 22 minutes. We left Frodo being very much the leader, sharply reprimanding Sam for having a go at Gollum, and perhaps this later scene was filmed with the intention of putting some strength back into Sam's necessary supporting part in the quest, on the way to having him become so heroic in the end. (You have to admit that Frodo looks up at Sam really despoindantly as if to say 'I need a hug'). The scene could also have been used as a break, so that when we go back to Pippin and Gandalf 2 minutes later, it seems more probable in the mind of the watcher that it is later in the day from the scene we left them in.

The fact that this particular crossroads scene doesn't work actually makes me more in awe of the rest of the job PJ and the others did pulling all the bits of filming together into a credible whole. When you think how long it took Prof. Tolkien to write the books and make sure everything tied up, the matter of months that PJ had to translate it to film, along with the deadlines for production, and the number of parties involved lead me to consider it a miracle it ever got to the screen. It is mind-blowing that they managed to get their heads around it all.

I am so enjoying reading all your opinions and comments. It is a great lesson in literature study, and I wish I had found you 2 years ago, before I had to write papers on German literature.

I think it's redundant, cobbled into place, hurts the flow, doesn't help the continuity, and isn't completely consistent with the rest of the movie. But, IMHO, that's true of a majority of EE scenes for all three movies. They tried to do something different by working the added scenes into the movie, instead of having a "deleted scenes" feature, as most DVDs do, but I sometimes wonder if that was the best choice.

I often agree with you, tg, but not this time.
I'm quite happy that in this point PJ and Co had different point of view - and added all new scenes _inside_ SEE movies. I'd hate to have all of them in "deleted" scenes. From my point of view almost all additions are at the right places and add to the development of different themes or characters.In ROTK SEE among the added scenes only Drinking game seems to me superfluous, I could live without it easily - but I definetely need all the other additions and - inside the story!

Personaly I never had problems with SEE editions - on the contrary, every time I liked them more. After getting SEE, I every time stoped to watch theatrical cuts, because I definetely prefer SEE passing and style of storytelling - slower, and more detailed, with... how to saw... wide breath? where not all the detailes are absolutely necessary for immediate pushing the story ahead, but add to spirit, atmosphere of the story and characters some new glimpses, making it more real and 3-D.

The same was with ROTK SEE. In fact I had serious troubles with pacing and storytelling in the theatrical cut of ROTK (I felt Pelennor Fields Battle to be too muddled, without strong inner logic; all pre-MD Mordor part was dashed off and too hasty, and so on), but SEE solved for me almost all the problems. In SEE movie I can live even with Paths of the Dead episode :D , that I hated with all my heart and simply skiped in theatrical cut of ROTK... From ROTK SEE I skip only Legolas The Spider-elf on Mumak! ;)

With new Frodo-Sam scenes in ROTK SEE I had no any problems at all! They seemed to me quite logical in character development, quite set inside existed storyline... So I was realy surprised when I found out that some people are in serious trouble with them. I'm still puzzled, reading some of your posts - as if we watched different movies, so different is our reading of scenes.

But, well, all of us are different. This is life.

I was actually quite disapointed with the long awaited extra scenes in ROTK and much prefer the TE...
I think some of the scenes a lot of people were looking forward to--the Mouth of Sauron comes to mind, as well as the Houses of Healing--were less than hoped for. I won't get into those here, since they'd be really OT, but there've been some good discussions on them in the EE thread if anyone's interested.

After the FotR-EE came out, I tried to start a thread in the Trilogy Forum about which scenes people would want to take from the two editions to put together their own "cut," but it didn't gather much enthusiasm :rolleyes: . I have to decide that for myself yet for RotK.

...as a non reader of the books, I would have found the EE of FOTR very helpful compared to the TE, which was my first intro to Tolkien. I kept having to stop the video tape to ask hubby for background information and explanations of relationships, and then when I later saw the EE I realised that much of my initial confusion was explained in the extra scenes.
The scene I most wished had been in the TE for that very reason was the talk between Bilbo and Frodo at the Party (while they're hiding from the SB's). Next on the list would have been Frodo and Sam watching the elves passing by in the woods and, maybe, Aragorn at his mother's memorial. But that's trying to guess from the "other side" :p , and I'm wondering which scenes you think really would have been most helpful; interesting that none of the three I just mentioned actually occur in the book :rolleyes: , but I guess I see them as filling in information that Tolkien gave in the narrative rather than in actual scenes.

I'm curious, too, what you might have thought about the two Council of Elrond scenes. While there were some nice touches in the scene in the EE, I thought the TE laid things out more clearly for people who didn't know the story. Did you find one more helpful than the other?

The fact that this particular crossroads scene doesn't work actually makes me more in awe of the rest of the job PJ and the others did pulling all the bits of filming together into a credible whole. When you think how long it took Prof. Tolkien to write the books and make sure everything tied up, the matter of months that PJ had to translate it to film, along with the deadlines for production, and the number of parties involved lead me to consider it a miracle it ever got to the screen. It is mind-blowing that they managed to get their heads around it all.
Oh, absolutely!! And adding to that--in TTT and RotK, at least--trying to keep all the storylines moving along at the same time, which is something they completely had to figure out for themselves. Tolkien didn't even want Books 3 and 4 to be put into the same volume together because he said they had nothing to do with each other--so anyone who tries to make one coherent story out of TTT is facing an uphill battle. The fact that everything flows and hangs together as well as it does is an amazing feat. I can see why they would have tended to shoot little bits and piece them together; I don't know how it could have been done without the ability to do a lot of rearranging.

from Rikka:
The same was with ROTK SEE. In fact I had serious troubles with pacing and storytelling in the theatrical cut of ROTK (I felt Pelennor Fields Battle to be too muddled, without strong inner logic; all pre-MD Mordor part was dashed off and too hasty, and so on), but SEE solved for me almost all the problems. In SEE movie I can live even with Paths of the Dead episode , that I hated with all my heart and simply skiped in theatrical cut of ROTK... From ROTK SEE I skip only Legolas The Spider-elf on Mumak!
Yes, I don't want to say that there weren't some good additions. But as far as decorating each other's houses--don't bring that pile of skulls to mine :D . I do like that they connected the PotD up with the Corsair ships, though. And I appreciate "Spider-elf" :D :D more since finding out that Orlando actually [i]did do the climbing-up-the-arrows bit himself--that part wasn't CGI. Of course, he was climbing up sand bags and not the side of a moving mumak... ;) .

Hallo ladies!!!!!

I must say that you never stop to amaize me!!

All this very intresting discution and very diffrent
opinions and still never a hard word,everybody
respect one and another!!! :k :k

That whats makes you all so unice and specell to me!!
:k :k :k

I have not much to add to the discution thu!!

Only that i love book-frodo and movie-frodo!!

But i have to admitt that i don`t think i woulde have this
deep feelings for movie-frodo if it wasen`t for ELIJAH!!!
I KNOW NO SWOONIONG IN HERE!! :p :D

i just telling the truth!!! He made frodo come alive on the screen
in away i diden`t expected!!!

And to me he is very handsom in his own very specell way!!!
not only as frodo but also in private!!!!! :D :D


love you all/wood

But as far as decorating each other's houses--don't bring that pile of skulls to mine :D . I do like that they connected the PotD up with the Corsair ships, though. And I appreciate "Spider-elf" :D

OK, tg, than I offer a deal ;) Give me a pile of sculls (I'm able to survive that!;) ) and I will give you for ever the Spider-elf with this poor oliphant,:D coz for me they are completely unbearable - I grit my teeth every time I see them!! And I became even more in rage after seing the documentary about making this scene! To spend so much work and efforts for such a sh**t!

OK, tg, than I offer a deal ;) Give me a pile of sculls (I'm able to survive that!;) ) and I will give you for ever the Spider-elf with this poor oliphant,:D coz for me they are completely unbearable - I grit my teeth every time I see them!! And I became even more in rage after seing the documentary about making this scene! To spend so much work and efforts for such a sh**t!

Sadly, Rikka, Lord of the Rings IS a commercial enterprise, and it's scenes like that that especially remind you that besides book fans, PJ and co. were also required to pander to the less "high-brow". For me, the scene that does this is the elf skateboarder in TTT (hmm...another annoying, completely gratuitous Leggy moment). That is quite a dilemma for a filmmaker, though, to have to satisfy all those disparate needs and in the end, make everyone MOSTLY satisfied -- it astounds me every time how well it was achieved.

Sadly, Rikka, Lord of the Rings IS a commercial enterprise, and it's scenes like that that especially remind you that besides book fans, PJ and co. were also required to pander to the less "high-brow". For me, the scene that does this is the elf skateboarder in TTT (hmm...another annoying, completely gratuitous Leggy moment).

Well, Achila, I understand that LOTR movie is a commercial project, and know what you are speaking about. Of course, some things of this kind were inevitable. But from the documentary it seems to me that JP loves this kind of stuff himself! Well, nothing we can do about it - he's also a director of Bad Taste! ;) What a paradoxal man he is! He surprises me every time.
But, BTW, I hate TTT Legolas shieldboarding, too! :D
___________

Coming back to our The One Lad... Does anyone heard something about his future plans? I know that at present moment he has 3 movies (Sin City, Yank and All is...) in post-production. But does he have some new progects for 2005?

In fact I feel than for EW, with his so special features, special beauty would be quite difficult to find big roles in Big Hollywood. Well, I know that at present moment he doesn't crave for this type of roles... But anyway, Hollywood prefer more "common" type of pretty fellows and handsome men. Like Mr. Bloom for example... And in fact, if to speak about US cinema, I could imagine EW only in Indy movies.

Sometimes I try to imagine in adaptations of what novels (or any other kind of literature stuff) I'd like to see him... Well, I immediatelly starting to think about some classic - Brithish classic novels of 18 and 19 c, of early 20 c - his image is so well suited for the past days, he looks so good and natural in the clothes of past centuries... Not long ago I've heard ian int of PJ where he said that after King Kong he thinks to start making a movie about the First Word War - I dream Our Lad could get some role in this project...

But nothing of the modern literature comes to mind. His face seems so unapropriate and strange for our present everyday life (I'm waiting for Yanks - hope it will help to break this feeling in me).

While... some time ago I read a story - "Tim" by Australian Colleen McCullough. I don't like this writer very much, never liked her most famous novel "Torn Birds"... But unexpectedly I really loved "Tim" - from one side, strange and provoking story and from the other - very pure, humane and touching... Does anyone read it? While reading this book, I suddenly thought that Tim could be an interesting and challenging role for EW - to play a man and a child in one body... But not now, at present moment Elijah still looks too young for it - a bit later, when EW will be about 27-28 and will look completely like adult man.

Don't worry, Ariel, I'm not touchy... But you will never be my decorator, too! :lol: Seems you and I have totaly polarized tastes!

Apparently yes! But diversity is what makes life interesting.

Ariel

Oh--I'm so mad. I just wrote a long post and erased it with an accidental tap stroke of a key :mad:

And I have someone waiting for me downstairs, so I can't go repeat it. I"ll come back later Flourish, with the quote of Elijah talking about the ring being saved by Frodo's compassion (unless you all have already covered that since you brought it up a few days ago. I've been out and am not at all caught up)

also Rikka:
Sometimes I try to imagine in adaptations of what novels (or any other kind of literature stuff) I'd like to see him...

Funny you should bring this up now as at work yesterday a few of us were talking about NOvels--and JD Salenger. A friend was reading Franny and Zooey and talked about all those bright characters in the Glass family who smoked so much....and two of us looked at each other at the same time and said--You know who could play Holden Caufield (Catcher in the Rye)?? ELIJAH WOOD!! And there were all sorts of nods of agreement. Someone also brought up Jake Gyllenhaul would be good--which was interesting because my daughter reminded me later that his character in The Good Girl was obsessed with Holden Caufield and even changed his name to Holden.

Okay Gotta run. But I have more to say later on Elijah's looks ;)

Captivating discussion, ladies. I wonder if I will ever catch up?

You know who could play Holden Caufield (Catcher in the Rye)?? ELIJAH WOOD!! And there were all sorts of nods of agreement.

Alyon,
I love "Catcher in the Rye" and Holden Caulfield could be a great role, but - alas! - Elijah is already too old for it. :( :(
But what a strange thing... While I watched 'Try 17' for the first time, that was exactly "Catcher in the Rye" that strangely came on my mind. Of course, they are very different, but I felt that EW's character in 'Try 17' has some "Holden Caulfield moments".

Originally Posted by Rikka:
Don't worry, Ariel, I'm not touchy... But you will never be my decorator, too! Seems you and I have totaly polarized tastes!

Apparently yes! But diversity is what makes life interesting.
How do you feel about piles of skulls in the foyer? :lol:

Alyon said:You know who could play Holden Caufield (Catcher in the Rye)?? ELIJAH WOOD!! And there were all sorts of nods of agreement.
Rikka said:I love "Catcher in the Rye" and Holden Caufield could be a great role, but - alas! - Elijah is already too old for it.
But if Jake Gyllenhaal could play a seventeen old in The Day After Tomorrow :rolleyes: then Elijah is not to old to play Holden Caufield. Jake's only a few weeks older than Lij, but he looks a couple of years older to me.

And Holden Caufield was a high-school student as I recall (I was one, too, the last time I read the book :rolleyes: :rolleyes: .) But I don't think it would hurt the story any to have him a young college student instead. Actually, it's not all that uncommon for young college students to experience the kind of nervous collapses that HC suffered.

Rikka said:While... some time ago I read a story - "Tim" by Australian Colleen McCullough. I don't like this writer very much, never liked her most famous novel "Torn Birds"... But unexpectedly I really loved "Tim" - from one side, strange and provoking story and from the other - very pure, humane and touching... Does anyone read it? While reading this book, I suddenly thought that Tim could be an interesting and challenging role for EW - to play a man and a child in one body... But not now, at present moment Elijah still looks too young for it - a bit later, when EW will be about 27-28 and will look completely like adult man. I was poking around on Amazon, looking at this book, and what other readers said about it. It has consistently good reviews. Apparently it's already been made into a movie twice. Once for TV, and once starring Mel Gibson as Tim. One reveiwer said he/she didn't think either movie really did justice to the book.

Makes me want to give Elijah a stack of books next week at ORC. "Just a few things your um...more seasoned fans would like to you to consider...." :lol:

honey!

While... some time ago I read a story - "Tim" by Australian Colleen McCullough. I don't like this writer very much, never liked her most famous novel "Torn Birds"... But unexpectedly I really loved "Tim" - from one side, strange and provoking story and from the other - very pure, humane and touching... Does anyone read it? While reading this book, I suddenly thought that Tim could be an interesting and challenging role for EW - to play a man and a child in one body... But not now, at present moment Elijah still looks too young for it - a bit later, when EW will be about 27-28 and will look completely like adult man.

Someone has already made a beautiful film of this. It has a very young Mel Gibson in the role of Tim, and he does a totally believable job. As you mention, Elijah is perhaps a little too immature looking physically to fill the role. Whereas Elijah has the still has the build of a teenager with eyes full of wisdom and maturity, Mel Gibson was muscular, toned and tanned and yet he had that youthful and innocent glow in his face and eyes.

I have a copy of the film I could loan you. PM me if you are interested. It had me in tears I found it so moving.

TGI will have to have a good think about the TE and EEs of FOTR before I can truly answer your questions. I gave the TE back to its owner many months ago, and have become so famimliar with both the EE and Middle Earth in general that I can't instantly point to the scenes that helped me most. The thing I really found confusing at first, that wasn't helped by anything and might seem ridiculous to some, was that until you have seen them written down, Sauron and Saruman are names one can easily mix up. The fact that many characters and places have 2 or more names was also a headache.

Honey:
But if Jake Gyllenhaal could play a seventeen old in The Day After Tomorrow then Elijah is not to old to play Holden Caufield. Jake's only a few weeks older than Lij, but he looks a couple of years older to me.

What she said. I just saw The Day After Tomorrow and the same thought crossed my mind--though Elijah seems to be avoiding younger playing roles. When skimming the net recently I found some board for teens and Elijah was quoted --I think in the last year or so--as saying that he is still not getting roles he wants because he is too young looking--and that having a baby face is not helping him at the moment to get roles his age--though it likely will be an asset in the future. It's odd because Elijah looks both old and young. I don't picture him doing teen roles anymore, probably because playing Frodo seems so mature. But the truth is that most teen roles in Hollywood are played by people in their twenties (less parental interference to bother with, schooling issues are over, etc). Of course not all are, but it is certainly why teenagers often look "old" in movies and TV shows. Therefore Jake Gylenhaul and MacCauly Culkin are still doing the young roles that Elijah seemingly doesn't want.

Even so--and even though I now picture Elijah doing older roles, I can see him doing someone from the Glass family. It seems like him. It's been a long time since I read Franny and Zooey--the whole family of siblings overly bright and individual--but I still picture zooey (?) sittting in a bathtub, smoking up a storm and having some intellectual conversation with his sister. Correct my memory, if you'd like. Maybe that's Elijah. ;)

I can still picture Elijah doing young roles that are really smart. Not the geeky role where he gets picked on...but something smart. I know Salenger would never agree to making any of his books into movies...but Elijah could play someone like this--smart and sensitive and strong beyond his years.

Oh---as ever, lots of conversation about how Elijah struck us--looks-wise at first. Frodo--who can argue?--beautiful. Elijah, I found facinatingly changable. LIke many of the most interesting people I know, he isn't always one thing. Sometimes I found him beautiful, and other times odd looking. Sometimes outwardly charismatic, and sometimes ackward. But the more I read what it is he has to say , the more it backed up that he has charismatic THINKING. He is worthy of liking, in my opinion. Capable of great charisma and beauty, even if sometimes it doesn't come across--but backed up with a kind of depth that makes me think it's worth me being interested in him. Some of the best people I know are like that. Flashes of brilliance and occasional moments I want to cringe over. But I'll take that last bit when it comes along with those glimpses of beautiful mind and heart--and on a physical appreciation level--I'll take the ackward shots of Elijah when the flip side you get those heartrendingly beautiful shots. And hey--you can't deny it's him who is Frodo, and the beauty is THERE.

It's funny how powerful the little changeable accessories are in the impression a person gives. Watching all the dvds this week with my english friend who loves aragorn, for instance--Viggo (as with most of the actors) has his hair at different lengths in different commentaries---with long hair he was "gorgeous" to her. But not very good looking with short hair. But it is the same guy. Odd looking Elijah is the same guy as beautiful Elijah. It's all there :D

ETA:

Flourish, this is one quote I found of Elijah's in which he speaks of Frodo's compassion:

Interviewer: In the book, Tolkien himself said that ultimately it is Frodo’s mercy and compassion --

EW: It’s Frodo’s mercy that actually destroys the Ring. The Ring isn’t actually destroyed by any person’s will. It the will of Frodo that gets it to where it needs to go, but it’s indeed the mercy [shown to] Gollum that allows Gollum to actually meet them at the Crack of Doom to stop Frodo from actually carrying out what would end up being his failure.

Oh---as ever, lots of conversation about how Elijah struck us--looks-wise at first. Frodo--who can argue?--beautiful. Elijah, I found facinatingly changable. LIke many of the most interesting people I know, he isn't always one thing.

I love the way you put this, Alyon. But you know, none of us are ever one thing consistently. We're all a combination of moods and emotions and circumstances and so on. I'm sure that if we were ever photographed as much as "celebrities" are, we'd see a similar picture. However, because we are "mere mortals", there isn't as much expectation on us to be beautiful all the time.

One of my favorite things about Elijah is that he looks the way he wants to. I've spent far too much of my life caring about what other people think of me, and to tell the truth, this aspect of his personality is very enviable. And frankly, he's beautiful because he's Elijah. Geeky, awkward, beautiful, "odd-looking" -- it's all good as far as I'm concerned!

One of my favorite things about Elijah is that he looks the way he wants to. I've spent far too much of my life caring about what other people think of me, and to tell the truth, this aspect of his personality is very enviable. And frankly, he's beautiful because he's Elijah. Geeky, awkward, beautiful, "odd-looking" -- it's all good as far as I'm concerned!

You are so right, Achila--most all of us have our good and bad moments. Some people DO look good all of the time--but often it's because they work at it and I don't always think that's the best way to spend one's time (though there are some who just naturally look good always without trying). But truthfully--you look at the outtakes of photo sessions and so often there are tons of bad photos to even out the one good photo of many stars. I sort of like the idea that you can't always count on looking great all of the time. Builds character :)

What I do like is finding that someone is worthy to sort of believe in them through their more ackward moments...and that is life, isn't it???

By the way--Honey and I will have to be rather zen next week. Let's face it--our meeting with Elijah will be for about 15 seconds. It won't really matter that much how we are. It will just BE. We might even forget to look at him--as I almost did when I had our books signed by Sean Astin last month. I was intent on finding the right page. Then I just looked at him and one little exchange was enough. It's okay. But dear friends....we will have to make the most of our little zen moment. And I will think of all of you there with us at the same time...with little amused smiles of wise women being a little ridiculous. And it will be okay. One moment is only one moment. Nothing has to be perfect. Just enough for us to smile through and laugh at afterwards. (Just wish we didn't have to pay so much for the little bit of time...)
:) All of you will be there with us. The regulars and the lurkers. And it will just be a blip. But that's okay. We will meet briefly with a worthy person..and let you know how it goes... :)

ps--Honey has done all of the work on the book and she is also doing all of the on site trip arrangements for me. I thank her in public--she talked me into this and now I'm very glad for this adventure. Thank you, Honey, you are so wonderful to know and I am looking forward to sharing this time with you! (and all of our absent but there in spirit friends!)

Very best wishes to you, Alyon and Honey! I look forward to hearing about your experience, however brief or Zen. You'll be closer than I ever will!

Cheers, and thanks for the lovely discussion. :k

Tim by Colleen McCullough.
I've read the book and saw the movie with Mel Gibson.
Somebody like Gibson was not who I had in mind when I read the book but...aww...Gibson was so endearing in that movie.
I agreed that the book was so much more than the movie could ever be, though... but I liked it: nothing special but not bad either.


Anyway, there's an article on the movie about Ian Curtis (Joy Division) in my newspaper today.
Anton Corbijn is going to make the movie (he's the famous Dutch photographer). He made videoclips for groups such as Nirvana, U2, Depeche Mode.
Title: Touching from a Distance
(that's a line from the lyrics of the song 'Transmission' by Joy Division.)
The movie is based on a book, written by his widow Deborah and the project is going to be supervised by Deborah Curtis and Tony Wilson. Mister Wilson said that the movie is going to be about more than just the music but it's going to be the real story behind the man Ian.
It's not yet known who's going to play Ian.

And Holden Caufield was a high-school student as I recall (I was one, too, the last time I read the book

Honey,
Holden Caulfield definetely was a high-school student. It seems to me that he was 16 years old, but I could be wrong. Have no book at hand to check it.

Someone has already made a beautiful film of this. It has a very young Mel Gibson in the role of Tim, and he does a totally believable job. As you mention, Elijah is perhaps a little too immature looking physically to fill the role. Whereas Elijah has the still has the build of a teenager with eyes full of wisdom and maturity, Mel Gibson was muscular, toned and tanned and yet he had that youthful and innocent glow in his face and eyes.

I have a copy of the film I could loan you. PM me if you are interested. It had me in tears I found it so moving.

(((Skater girl,)))
thank you for your kind suggestion, I'll PM you. If you are not afraid to send your property in such a long journey,;) I'd like to watch this movie!

This could be interesting, Mel Gibson is a good actor, while he is definetely is not the type, I imagined reading the book: he has such a strong macho air aroung him, such a strong mail sexuality in his charisma! How could he get rid of this inalienable part of his personality at least for a first half of the story? Innocence and purity of a child - and Gibson? Hmmm.. Difficult to believe - he always seemed to me a type of man who becomes very sexy macho already at 14! :D Also seems a bit old for Tim (who was about 24-25 years old), and Gibson was already 33 in 1979. This was the same year he played in the first 'Mad Max'!

But the most important thing (for me) - while Mel is a VERY handsome man, he's IMHO ordinary handsom. The is no anything special, mindblowng in his mail attractivines. Just a very handsom and sexy man. But Tim in the novel had special beauty - not from our modern time. He's not pretty or handsom, he's beautiful! Only because of it I thought about the One Lad! ;)

There is a scene in the book: after Mary sees Tim for the first time, she's so blown away with his strange, unusual beauty, that all the evening she examines her art albums of old drawings, trying to find where did she see this kind of face before...Botichelli? No, the features of faces on Botichelli drawings are too soft and sweet...Oh, yes! Here it is - his face is a face of a marble statue from Ancient Greece...

Doesn't this remind, us, ladies, some of our researches, here at Faculty (after we met Mr. Frodo Baggins for the first time?) ;) As I remember, we also finished with Greek statues and other art images, that were created upon the pattern of the Greek ancient art (statues of Michelangello)... :D

BTW, Skater girl, about eyes - children sometimes have very old eyes, especially ill children... and in the book it was said that Tim's eyes were very strange, with some mistery in them and always kept sadness inside... But anyway, the One Lad is still too young for Tim. He will look 25 only when he is about 30 himself, not earlier! :)

Moondancer,
sorry for my ignorance, but who is this Ian Curtis and why he's interesting as a person?

Rikka,

(Sorry, I know you asked Moondancer this, but I remember Joy Division very well and therefore really would like to see Elijah do this ...so I'll just jump in with the relevent info...)

There was some speculation in this thread a while back, as to wether Elijah was going to go for the role of Ian Curtis in the up and coming film of his life, because of the fact that he has kept the black haired look from filming "Everything Is Illuminated" for so long, and the way he has it styled right now...a fact that would seem to be borne out by his reaction to someone actually questioning him about it recently, at a press junket...he looked surprised and said something to the effect of "How did you know about that ? Nothing escapes you fans, does it ?!!!"... or something of that nature ;)

As for who Ian Curtis is, he was the lead singer with British band of the eighties "Joy Division", who were the main and most important band of the Madchester scene, signed up to Factory Records...featured in the film "24-Hour Party People" recently..

He was a somewhat tortured soul...with a very complicated private life that involved a wife and a lover...he committed suicide at the age of about twenty-three, the age that Elijah is now...

It would be a fantastic role for Elijah, methinks !!

Here's a link to the news that Moondancer reported on...

Ian Curtis film news (http://www.nme.com/news/111004.htm)

( Notice the photo of Ian with the article...see the similarity ? Same haircut, similarly huge eyes etc...)

The article doesn't say anything beyond the fact that several actors have been approached for the role.....

As for other roles, whatever happened to that Italian film about the saint that we were all discussing in here, a few months ago ? That seems to have disappeared off the face of the Earth...

Very encouraging news about the Ian Curtis film. I did notice that they've changed the title again -- it was going to be These Days, I thought (and Transmission was another title bandied about for a while). There was also some talk about a second Joy Division/Ian Curtis film involving Moby as the music director, but I guess that project got canned. Hmm...another first-time director....ugh...

Yes, Elijah's words when asked directly about this not long ago were, "Nothing's set yet." There were some rumblings about him playing Ian in the JD camp about 3,4 months ago, on their message boards. No one seemed to know where the "rumor" originated though, and how much fact it contained -- I'll keep my eyes and ears opened. BTW, the producer did squash the Jude Law rumor some time ago. We'll see!

HALLO EVERY ONE!!!

SOME INTRESTING NEWS ABOUT THE IAN CURTIS MOVIE!!!
THANKS MOONDANCER AND ACHILA!!!! :k :k :k

I WAS READING THE NEWSPAPER TODAY AND THERE WAS AN ARTICLE ABOUT NEW MOVIES UNDER 2005,AND NO HOLLIGANS, NO SIN CITY,AND NO EII!!! :confused: :( :eek: WHATS GOING ON IN THIS COUNTRY!!!!!!! :confused: :confused: :confused:


WELL I GUESS I HAVE TO SEE YOU LADIES IN BELGIUM IN SPRING TIME!!!!!
THAT WOULDE BE FUN!!! :lol: :lol:

A BIG STORM IS COMING IN OVER US. DON`T KNOW HOW LONG THE ELECTRICITY WILL WORK ITS BLINKING ALL THE TIME!!!
WE HAVE TO SEE HOW LONG I WILL BE HERE!!!


LOVE YOU ALL/WOOD

Rikka,

I remember Joy Division very well and therefore really would like to see Elijah do this ...so I'll just jump in with the relevent info... (...) He was a somewhat tortured soul...with a very complicated private life that involved a wife and a lover...he committed suicide at the age of about twenty-three

Lady Wendy,
thank you for explanations about Ian Curtis. Now I see... All those names - Cirtis, Joy Division - tell me nothing, but at least now I know what the story could be about. Something very dark, full of psicho, scandals, drugs and noisy musuc? :p

Well, I admit that for me, as a spectator, this is not so much inspiring or interesting theme. I never was a rock music fan, even in youth (my admirations stopped on Beatles and never moved on ;) ). And I definetely never admired a rock music community and their 'self-burning' style of life.

Notice the photo of Ian with the article...see the similarity?

Well, frankly, only a dimensions and shape of eyes! :D Comparing to him, the One Lad looks healthy, well balanced and pure soul! It seems, Mr. Curtis (I suppose he was talented musician and performer?) at the same time had a lot of demons in his soul, at least he looks very unhealthy, even sick - some psychologic (mental?) problems, drugs, drunks and so on, right? Eeeee... beg your pardon, LW, that lover of Mr. Curtis... I dearly hope, that at least there was a she-lover, not he-lover? :z: :p

wood
it seems to me that all those 3 movies of EW are still in post-production period, so they are not in the reviews.
P.S. What kind of storm you are waiting for? Strong snow storm? Anyway, good luck with it!

Rikka,

Eeeee... beg your pardon, LW, that lover of Mr. Curtis... I dearly hope, that at least there was a she-lover, not he-lover?

:D :D :D
Yes...a she-lover indeed !!
Actually, I liked the music of Joy Division, but didn't know an awful lot about Ian himself, until this movie started to have the possibility of Elijah being involved... and then I was strangely interested ;) ( Hmmmm, wonder why ?!!!)
It was Adam who was really into them at the time...

Well, frankly, only a dimensions and shape of eyes! Comparing to him, the One Lad looks healthy, well balanced and pure soul!

The photo only showed his eyes really, but Elijah has, for the last few months, really been cultivating the Ian Curtis-look...fringe brushed down, sideburns, cool shades etc...Ian was very skinny, and slight of build, and probably did a fair amount of drugs too, I'll bet !!
I reckon Elijah could really get his teeth into this sort of role...and he'd definitely enjoy the rock-music aspect of the story...

If he does get this role, then it will be a long wait for the movie to arrive in our cinemas...
Elijah + tortured soul character + screnplay based on a biography written by someone very close to the character + rock music = one very happy Wendy !!

Can't wait !! :D

Rikka,
:D :D :D
Yes...a she-lover indeed !!


Lady Wendy! :k
You have taken a burden away from my heart!
:D :D :D

( Notice the photo of Ian with the article...see the similarity ? Same haircut, similarly huge eyes etc...)
Whoa! Ya think?

http://www.imagemagician.com/images/tgshaw/CoE/JoyDivision0900_L.jpg

As for other roles, whatever happened to that Italian film about the saint that we were all discussing in here, a few months ago ? That seems to have disappeared off the face of the Earth...
That never seemed to go beyond the initial rumor. Someone's wishful thinking, maybe? But you never know... seemingly dead projects do sometimes walk again...

from Rikka:
Innocence and purity of a child - and Gibson?
Y'know, having seen him in Forever Young, I can almost see how he could play that. He's not "child" innocent in that movie, but has an innocence from living during an earlier time. But, then, he was older when he made FY. OTOH, that description certainly does sound like Elijah!

I haven't read Tim or seen that movie, but the conversation from yesterday sent me to IMDb to check on a few other projects. Nothing new on the Picasso and Einstein movie, I'm afraid. And the following two are ones that have just been mentioned here as great Elijah roles (and I agree on both); not even any rumors that he's involved:

Following up on Steve Martin, I also checked for any movie news on his recent short novel The Pleasure of My Company, which he's said he wants to make into a movie, and the search comes up blank. So if it's being planned, it's still very early on--and the lead in that would be a great role for Elijah, IMHO. In a way, an extreme version of Jones Dillon, in that it's about an isolated man who's brought out into the world by his neighbors. But here we're talking really, pathologically isolated, not just naive. I'd think the role would be too young for Martin to take himself, but, of course, that could always be changed in the movie. So, if anyone has an "in" with Steve Martin... ;) He's compared this project with his earlier Shopgirls, which I think went the indy movie route. (Everything I've heard him say about a movie of The Pleasure of My Company was in an interview just after the book was published.)

Also checked on Jonathan Lethem's Motherless Brooklyn, which would be another great role that Elijah would be wonderful in. But, geesh, is it really fair?? ;) --Edward Norton's behind the project and evidently has decided to play the lead himself. I guess I knew that, but I had to check anyway (that's the private detective with Tourette's syndrome). Elijah working with Norton would be great, but as far as I've read in the book the other roles aren't much more than supports for the main character. The only other character I've come across who's very interesting is the victim's wife, and I don't think I want to see Elijah stretch quite that far. :p She's too old for him to play. ;) I'm only about halfway through the book, so someone may pop up yet, but, if so, it probably wouldn't be a very large role.

Jumping to Amazon for a bit, they have used copies of the play script for Harvey... May have to get myself one of those and see how it compares to the movie... The play won the Pulitzer Prize in 1944... And Elijah loves the movie... And, yeah, I've covered this territory before... :rolleyes: But I'd still love to see it happen.

-------------

Back to IMDb for a couple of "contests":

They have a poll going on which movie should win the Golden Globe for best comedy or musical. ESOTSM is way out front with 51% of the total vote! You have to register on the site in order to vote, but it's free. And I've been registered there for at least couple of years and have never gotten a single piece of unwanted email, etc., from them. (Why did I register? So I could contact another member about a possible Day-O sighting, of course. :p Came up dry, though. He'd posted a review, but it seems he wrote it just from seeing the movie on TV in Australia.)

The second contest at IMDb involves a long-term commitment. They've listed their top 25 "people" for 2004. Viggo's #23, Orlando's #3, and no other LotR actors to be found. Need I say more? :rolleyes: But as I was preparing to be totally indignent about it, I saw how they choose the list--it's based completely on how many searches the name got on their site during the year. As they pointed out, this isn't always good news; there are some on the list because of problematic personal lives--or at least rumors of such--that got people curious enough to do a search. (Johnny Depp was #1, BTW.)

So during 2005, I'm going to change my search strategy there. Previous to this, I'd sometimes search by "person" but I'd also sometimes search by "title" of a particular movie. So I'm going to try to make my searches count by going for "person"--at least for now. They also have a similar top 25 list for movies, so if (when ;) ) Elijah's in a movie that gets a lot of buzz, it may be a difficult choice.

-------------

Well, that's all from yesterday, but I didn't have time to post. This morning I have something to report that's kind of unusual for me--an Elijah dream! But totally movie-related and non-swooney, as you'd expect from me :p . In the dream, I was watching an Elwood movie that kept changing (as dreams do). In each segment, he dropped in age--not that that was involved in the movie, at all, that's just how I saw him in the dream. First he looked like Jones. Then he dropped to being Stu's age, and in that segment he picked up a sister. Then he went to Good Son/Forever Young age, but kept the sister, interestingly enough.

I don't remember much about a story in the movie, but in the dream I knew it was an extended edition; I'd seen the original movie before but this was my first time watching the EE. -- Absolutely no other resemblance to LotR: no wigs, no period costumes, and most of the movie took place in the backyard of the house I grew up in. One thing that had been added for the EE was about a half-dozen song-and-dance numbers sprinkled throughout the movie. The only one I have a clear memory of is from the part of the movie where Elijah's at the youngest age, and he's doing a silly dance with his sister and singing. But I remember that all of them were terrible :eek: and I just sat there being so happy and relieved that they hadn't been in the theatrical version! Can't imagine where that thought came from. :lol:

Alyon:Thank you, Honey, you are so wonderful to know and I am looking forward to sharing this time with you! (and all of our absent but there in spirit friends!)
Thank you for sharing this little adventure with me. To think that, had I never seen LoTR that second (or was it third time,) I'd have missed having you as my friend! I wish we could take all the Faculty with us, though!

Regarding the Ian Curtis role, the only problem is that Elijah isn't English. The producers of the movie have promised the Mancunian fans that the actor will be an English gentleman. I'll be very surprised if our lad gets the role, even though he's fooled several people into thinking he was english before! It would be a fantastic role for him, if it ever happens.

honey!

AS YOU CAN SEE I`M STILL HANGING IN HERE!!!!

THE MORE AND MORE I READ ABOUT THE IAN CURTIS STORY
THE MORE I KNOW ELIJAH WOULDE BE PERFECT FOR THE ROLL!!!!!

AND LIKE YOU SADE LADY WENDY,I CAN`T WAIT!!!!!!

HM TG,I HAVE DREAMS ABOUT ELIJAH AND I CAN SAY THEY ARE
VERY MUCH FULL OF SWOONING!!! :p :D ;)


LOVE/WOOD

Regarding the Ian Curtis role, the only problem is that Elijah isn't English. The producers of the movie have promised the Mancunian fans that the actor will be an English gentleman. I'll be very surprised if our lad gets the role, even though he's fooled several people into thinking he was english before! It would be a fantastic role for him, if it ever happens.
This would be Dom's accent, right? At least Elijah knows a good coach for it :p . But with some people already upset about him being in Hooligans/The Yank--even though the character there is specifically meant to be an American--he might end up with a British backlash if he takes a role away from a Brit. (Of course, he's already done that once--PJ having firmly decided that he wanted a British actor to play Frodo until he saw a little magic :) .)

And I still need to wish Honey and Alyon Godspeed and good travels and the most wonderful 15 seconds they can possibly have :k .

Thank you for researching that quote, Alyon. I never doubted that Elijah understood Frodo very well. ;)

This would be Dom's accent, right? At least Elijah knows a good coach for it.

Yep. My guess is that Lij can do this accent in his sleep already! Granted, there could be a bit of a fuss if they give this role to an American actor, but the LOTR movies (and the book) are very beloved in Britain, and Elijah right along with them. So if anyone would be accepted as a non-Brit in a British role, I think it would be him.

Here's one Brit who would love to see Elijah land the Ian Curtis role! :)

I would imagine a regional British accent would be more difficult to perfect than Frodo's standard English accent. But I have no doubt that the One Lad could do it.

from Achila:
...there could be a bit of a fuss if they give this role to an American actor...

I really cannot see why this should be an issue. If Elijah pulled the accent off successfully, and the producers considered him to be the best man for the job, the fact that he's American should not enter into it. After all, there are enough English actors playing American characters in films these days.

I can't think of an English actor (OK, so there may have been an 'unknown' who would have done Frodo justice - but we'll never know) who would have portrayed Frodo with such heart-wrenching gentleness, emotion and total commitment as Elijah did. The 'beauty' of Frodo - both the physical presence and the inner 'quality,' came to us through Elijah. And the accent - when I first saw FOTR, I thought Elijah was English! :)

Blossom,
The 'beauty' of Frodo - both the physical presence and the inner 'quality,' came to us through Elijah. And the accent - when I first saw FOTR, I thought Elijah was English!

Yes...me too !!!

I was thoroughly gobsmacked, :eek: ...there's just no other word for it... when I found out that this Elijah Wood fellah was actually American !!! You could have knocked me down with a feather, as they say !! I accepted his Brit accent so completely...

Also, your comment about Elijah's portrayal of the inner Frodo is also very pertinent to this particular role... it is precisely because Elijah portrayed Frodo's inner quality SO well, that I think he could truly do Ian Curtis justice...
This is a man who had inner emotional turmoil, made worse by the complex tangle of his love life...to the point that he ended it all...and, imho, there are few actors who could portray this inner complexity, and be the same age as Ian was when he died, and look like him as well...which is something that the Joy Division fans would expect...

They would be very lucky if they found someone who fulfilled all those criteria, and was the right nationality too...


For anyone who is able to receive the Dutch TV channels :-


Tonight, on Nederland 3, Avalon will be on, from 23.30 - 1.35!! So if you want to see a 9 yr old Elijah... tune in tonight!

The VPRO TV guide says:

"Zeer persoonlijk verhaal over drie generaties van een immigrantenfamilie in Baltimore. Armin Mueller-Stahl laat een prachtige vertolking van de grootvader zien die moeite heeft 'vooruitgang' bij te houden. Het traag vorderende verhaal van Avalon is niet altijd even onderhoudend, maar er zijn talloze fraaie beelden en dialogen. Wat rest is een gevoel van melancholie. Derde deel van Levinsons Baltimore-trilogie na Diner en Tin men."

Translated into English:

"Very personal story about three generations of a family of immigrants in Baltimore. Armin Mueller-Stahl shows us a magnificent interpretation of the grandfather, who has problems keeping up with 'progression.' The slowly progressing story of Avalon is not always as entertaining, but there are countless beautiful images and dialogues. What remains is a feeling of melancholy. Third part of Levinson's Baltimore-trilogy after Diner and Tin men."

I can't get this channel, unfortunately, and so I will miss out again !! :( :( :(

Lucky Alyon and Honeyelf to be travelling to ORC! But if you each have 15 seconds, won't that be 30 sec. altogether?

Wood and tg, how are you able to have EW in your dreams? The last dream I remember was about cleaning the hamster cage.

C4

Wood and tg, how are you able to have EW in your dreams? The last dream I remember was about cleaning the hamster cage.

C4

:lol: Oh my, I had two EW dreams - in the first one he appeared in his EII outfit. I don't want to say anymore on this one (it was just too awful :p ). In the second dream a lot of people I've never seen before in my life lolled on my parents' living room settee :confused: and the leftmost of them was Elwood :D . I hardly recognised him, he wore a trench coat and a hat... rather Bogartesque :cool: . But sadly, I forgot about further details. That is definitely more annoying than your cleaning dream, C4... at least you know what happened ;) .

Wood and tg, how are you able to have EW in your dreams? The last dream I remember was about cleaning the hamster cage.

Well, it's not like this is a regular occurrence! :p Which is why I had to talk about it.

It was a relief to many of us American fans when some Brits said they'd thought Elijah was English after seeing FotR, because there were some lines we kind of cringed at. I think his "Get off the road!" probably is a bit too American, possibly along with "What are you doing?" It's probably harder to be urgent in an accent that's not your own.

But the other side--and what at least a few of us cringed at even more--were ones that we thought sounded too English. The worst one for me was the way he said "heart" in "...but for the warning of my heart." I could never enjoy that line (and a great line it is--straight from the book!) until I was assured by some Brits that it really was okay :) and not "over the top."

The line that always slays me is "I think I can see the boTTom..." It practically gets my husband :lol: It sounds just a little too cockney or something. Well, I'm no expert on queen's english, but it sounds "over the top."

The line that always slays me is "I think I can see the boTTom..." It practically gets my husband :lol: It sounds just a little too cockney or something. Well, I'm no expert on queen's english, but it sounds "over the top."

Considering that it was in the EE, and not the TE, and that there was always a dialog coach on set, it's OK! lol

Tgshaw
It was a relief to many of us American fans when some Brits said they'd thought Elijah was English after seeing FotR, because there were some lines we kind of cringed at. I think his "Get off the road!" probably is a bit too American, possibly along with "What are you doing?" It's probably harder to be urgent in an accent that's not your own.

Yes...you are absolutely right about that last point...however, I, personally didn't notice any Americanisation of these two particular lines at the time of viewing, but in any subsequent discussions about accents of US actors in LOTR, these two lines always seem to come up in the discussion as maybe a little bit Mid-Atlantic sounding rather than pure UK English...not much to worry about as far as Elijah's English-sounding accent goes though...this would be, after all, people being particularly picky, for the sake of it probably !!! :rolleyes:

Honeyelf
Trust me, as a Brit, that line didn't make me cringe at all...so don't worry !!!

Well...this thread needs a little decoration, imo...and in view of the recent Ian Curtis movie discussion :-

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v443/kindling/sunglasses/elijah_wood_041224_10.jpg

Ooooh...that's better !!! This photo really illustrates what I meant by Elijah cultivating the Ian Curtis look....

Thank you, Blossom, LW, and Achila for the accent info. Elijah's Frodo accent never made me cringe. I thought he was English when I first saw it, but I'm no qualified judge. Astin's accent did make me cringe; I never was sold on it, and it was one of the things that made me grateful that Sam had a small part in FOTR. Unfortunately, I had to face the wandering accent at length in TTT, by which time I knew which actors were American and which were British, which only made my discomfort worse. It's funny, the things that will pull folks out of a movie.

Tg, the cosmos must have aligned in dreamland last night. I had an amazingly complicated dream with intricate plot (which I won't bore you with here), but the summary is that Gandalf was guiding me (me, personally, not a character) through the EE of ROTK. The movie was changed, of course; Frodo had a human twin sister who grew up to be a warrior princess, so it wasn't exactly canon. But when I looked up the long road to where Minas Tirith perched on a mountaintop (nothing like the view in the movie), and the Tower of Ecthelion was almost obscured in the gloom of Mordor, my heart stopped. I think part of me really does live there, in Middle Earth. *feels grateful*

This dreaming thing is just not fair. I can't sleep at night, while you all have Elijah visiting you. Just what kind of good lives are you leading??? Let me have some!

This dreaming thing is just not fair. I can't sleep at night, while you all have Elijah visiting you. Just what kind of good lives are you leading??? Let me have some!
Alyon, you probably can't sleep because you're too excited about actually meeting The One Lad in the flesh! I'm afraid I can't find it in me to feel too sorry about your dream deprivation at this point. ;)

And just in case anyone thinks Elijah-dreaming is a common event for me, I just woke up from a nap in which I dreamed about septic tank leakage and of myself shoplifting beanie babies (and this was before I saw Whiteling's link to the cute penguin babies in the Penguin Appreciation thread. :p )

Marvelous site she linked to, BTW--I've bookmarked it, as it has everything you could possibly want for a penguin-themed party! It also has links to a lot of other penguin sites. One that I didn't look at, but had a good laugh at its description, is one that features a daily comic strip with a penguin whose "zen-like" appearance allows him to say nothing but "hello." :lol: See, not having facial expressions isn't necessarily bad--it's just "zen-like." :lol: The description continues on to say that "his presence says it all."

---------

Just saw that now there are very bad floods going on in Britain! Hope everyone is safe. (Sounds like mostly in the north, although I don't know my geography well enough to say :o .)

Tg:
Alyon, you probably can't sleep because you're too excited about actually meeting The One Lad in the flesh! I'm afraid I can't find it in me to feel too sorry about your dream deprivation at this point.

Okay okay, point taken :p :D but I'm telling you the way I'm feeling these days (and sleep deprived doesn't quite cover the PAIN of it ;) ) I think I might just sleep walk through the 15 seconds of Elijah (and no, Ceefour, we are splitting the photo shoot so it is only 15 seconds for both of us together--but time, like most things, is relative ;) ) and likely I'll think it's just a dream. I'll forget to open my eyes until it's over. I need to make Honey promise to pinch me. Hard. Oh yeah, poor me.. ;). but okay, okay....it's pretty shoddy to complain :p

wish you could all be there

Lady Wendy, thanks for posting that picture again. Nice....It's a good look for him...
I sure am hoping for something good to happen regarding the Ian Curtis role. I think it sounds really intriguing. And Honey played me one of the songs on Viggo's album that Elijah sings on (NO, not Halfling!!--Gone) and he sounded quite good. Don't know what Ian Curtis sounds like, however, so I don't know if it's a match...but I'm hoping..

I saw "Flipper" on the Family Channel. What was it doing there, when it should have been on the Disney Channel? Isn't it a Disney friendly movie too?

What I was confused about was wondering if that Shark attack was a Real Shark, or was that a mechanical one like Jaws was? The scene was too unrealistic. It was also unrealistic to have Elijah look like All Knowing, and the other kids and adults look like Simpletons. Are ALL of his movies like this? It seems like the kind of movie where any kid would get a big head from being in it. LOL.

Happy Birthday, Ereshkigal! :)
Hope it's a cuddly one!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0903/whiteling/billyelijah_snuggle.jpg

-----------

(...) as it has everything you could possibly want for a penguin-themed party!
I think we all should try to keep our date books free for a Faculty Moot in 2006 ;) ! Now that we know where to get all the essential props... like this one:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0903/whiteling/winebottletopper.jpg

Party Penguin Bottle Cover
Description
This festive velour penguin bottle cover takes the term "party animal" to a new level. Standing 9" tall, with a suave velour body and knit winter cap will make any bottle of wine penguin perfect. Also, makes a great companion to a bottle of Little Penguin Wine! :D

HAPPY BIRTHDAY ERESH !!!!!! HOPE YOU WILL

HAVE A WONDERFUL DAY!!!! :k :k :k

THE STORM HIT US HARD YESTERDAY,WE ARE ALL OKEY!! :)

THE POWER WHENT DOWN AROUND 8.30 PM AND DIDEN`T COME
BACK UNTILL THIS MORNING AROUND 7.30!!!!!!

I HOPE YOU OTHER SWEDISH GIRL ARE OKEY,AND YOU TOO
BLOSSOM , AND EVERYBODY WHO LIVES WERE THE STORM CAME IN!!!

OVER 400.000 THOUSEND PEOPLE IN SOUTH SWEDEN WAS WITHOUT POWER
THIS NIGHT!!!


HM, HOW CAN I GET THIS IN TOO ELIJAH???? WISH HE COULDE BEEN HERE AND WARMED ME UP!!!! NOPE,NO SWOONING!! :k :k :k
JUST MADE A NICE TRY THOU!!! :lol: :lol:

LOVE YOU ALL/WOOD

Happy Birthday, Eresh!

Here's a special cake (Since it's a cupcake there's a whole platter full so everybody gets one) :) .

http://www.imagemagician.com/images/tgshaw/off topic/cupcake.jpg

Copped from the Penguin Appreciation thread, of course (I saved the picture so I could remember how to do it). I wonder if the non-EJW-fan penguin appreciators have any idea why we're over there looking for penguin ideas. :D Not that I don't like penguins. I do like penguins. I've always liked penguins. :p [As far as party locations, remember that the Omaha zoo has one of the best penguin habitats in the world -- where you can watch all different types of real penguins doing real penguiny things in their own just-for-penguins place.]

I am really enjoying the penguin entries -- Whiteling, that penguin wine cozy is too hilarious! TG, did that cupcake come with a recipe? :)

Penguins are hypnotic to watch. There was this one penguin in the Shedd Aquarium exhibit in Chicago who would do loops and speed swimming almost continually -- he was a great crowd pleaser. Every once in a while he'd hop out of the water the way they do (which is tremendously cute in itself), then waddle over and drop a stone on the nest he was making. Then he'd do penguin acrobatics some more.

The crowd was charmed and mesmerized. I will take this as a good omen. ;)

Mariole--no, no recipe, but I'd think any cupcake recipe would do, as long as you put white icing on them (even bought cupcakes would work as long as the icing was right). The trick is in the decorating. At first glance, I thought the wings and head were Girl Scout thin mints, which have that exact kind of wavy edge that makes it look a little "ruffled." But they'd be too big, unless that's a really big cupcake! I have seen at least one brand of mint candy wafers that look like that, too, and are smaller, so that's my guess. Little pieces of gumdrops for beak and feet, and tiny chocolate candies for the eyes. Beak and eyes would have to be held on some way, probably with bits of icing, which could also give the eyes their "whites."

My sisters, one of whom at least is pretty hard to entertain or impress love watching the penguins at the zoo when they visit here. I think all three of us could stand their watching them all afternoon, if we didn't want to see some of the other exhibits. The penguins are like little kids on a playground, lining up to take their turn diving into the water (and I've seen pictures of them doing that in the wild, so I don't think it comes from being in the zoo). And they're amazing to watch under the water. I also like seeing all the different kinds. I kinda wish Mumbles would be a rock-hopper: they are so cute and actually hop to get around. But I doubt if that's in the plans.

http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/index.php?sty=34480

BEST BOOK-TO-MOVIE ADAPTATION
Liev Schreiber’s "Everything Is Illuminated" (Aug. 12) — based on Jonathan Safran Foer’s novel about a young man (Elijah Wood) who attempts to find the woman who saved his grandfather from the Holocaust — looks just a bit more promising than the Drew Barrymore/Jimmy Fallon sports-themed romance "Fever Pitch" (Oct. 7), which has great lineage (a novel by "About a Boy" author Nick Hornby), but stars Jimmy Fallon.

BIGGEST DARK-HORSE HIT
Robert Rodriguez ("Spy Kids") and comic book genius Frank Miller ("The Dark Knight") co-direct "Sin City" (April 1), a diabolical multinarrative crime saga starring Clive Owen, Mickey Rourke and Bruce Willis. Shot in highcontrast black-and-white, it should be a bloody beautiful feast for the eyes.



ETA: Here's a link to some excerpts of Deborah Curtis' book, "Touching From a Distance": http://users.net1plus.com/steff/bookcurtis.htm

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v377/honeyelf/tjeck.bmp I just know I'm forgetting something....it's important...OH!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v377/honeyelf/untitled.bmp
Happy Birthday, Ereshkigal!
:k


honey!

Happy Birthday, Erishkigal! Hope it was fun! C4

This link was posted over at TORC by Lord Baltimore. Some Faculty members also post there, and some may lurk as I do, so pardon if this is not new, but the article linked touched on the spirited discussion about Frodo last week.

http://faculty-staff.ou.edu/C/Janet.B.Croft-1/anticipationandflattening.htm


C4

C4, thanks for that really interesting article. I'd never read that one befor. It had a lot of really good points. But I hope the author is wrong in suggesting that there won't be another film adaptation in our lifetimes. In fact, I'm now entertaining a fantasy that it will be remade. And if Elijah can't be Frodo again, maybe he can be the wizard behind the camera. And maybe by then he'll have read the books a couple of times. With that sparkling intelligence he can surely see past his former employer's line of reasoning that led to such abominations as sending Sam home :mad: , and do it right on his watch! [/end prepostorous daydream]

Achila, thank you for the snippets about the anticipation for EJW's upcoming films! Imagine him being involved with Quality projects! There's more to this former Hobbit actor than meets the eye, and I'm glad some (outside of present company, being the astute bunch we are) are starting to recognize it, even if only by association.

And that snippet of Ian Curtis' biography looks very intriguing. It would certaintly be a fully adult role for young Mr. Wood. Finally something that is "old enough!"

honey!

I've been dropping in now and then to get a tantalizing glimpse of all the neat discussions that I don't have time to participate in dad-gummit! It's been a wild week, with an unexpected overnight in the hospital and a cardiac workup which showed a picture of some blue-eyed kid firmly embossed on my heart ;) . Seriously, things worked out ok. Can't get rid of me that easily, y'know!

I finally broke out my RotK EE last night. I watched the Easter Egg. Then I watched it again. And again. And fell off the couch laughing each time. Oh, my, they do pull that poor boy's leg unmercifully, don't they?!? The Lad absolutely lost it a couple times.

What alarmed me, though, was that The One Lad, at age 23, has a full-blown, honest-to-goodness smoker's cough. He goes into bronchospasms when he laughs!

I wish someone would give him a coupon for Nicotine patches or Nicorette gum or something.

Most of the extra stuff, so far, is - well - extra. The Saruman part, Pippen's conversation with Faramir, and Merry's extra stuff at Edoras were helpful, I think, in transitioning from one part to another. And it was really funny watching Merry trying to get his pony to go, although that wasn't true to the book because all of the hobbits could ride. I've only seen up till the beginning of the Lost Lembas scene, though. I noticed that the clip that they used when you move the cursor over that scene is Frodo saying "Go home". :::: sniffle ::::

~grumpy

What alarmed me, though, was that The One Lad, at age 23, has a full-blown, honest-to-goodness smoker's cough. He goes into bronchospasms when he laughs!

I wish someone would give him a coupon for Nicotine patches or Nicorette gum or something.

By his own admission, he smokes heavily, despite restricting himself to "30" cigarettes a day -- as if that's a trivial amount. There have been few pics of him taken lately that don't have a cig dangling out of his mouth. Not really becoming. BUT...all the patches and gum in the world won't work unless he wants to quit, and he obviously doesn't yet. Yep, I miss that sweet, silly, giggle...


ETA: BTW, re: Lij's pronounciation of the word "heart" in the scene with Boromir on Amon Hen -- "...but for the warning in my heart".... -- is exactly the same as Ian Holm's pronounciation in Bag End -- "...I know I don't look it but I'm beginning to feel it in my heart." Maybe it just sounded strange to non-British ears?

Also ETA: Happy Birthday, Ereshkigal, and Glad you're here with us, safe and sound, Grumpy!

Thanks, ceefour. The whole thread over there is very interesting.

Wood, the severe weather you just experienced has made the newspapers here--it was much worse than I realized. I'm very glad you are all right.

MY GODNESS,FLOURISH!!!

DO YOU MEAN THEY WRITE ABOUT LITTLE SWEDEN OVER THERE??
IT WOULDE BE FUN TO SEE WHAT THEY WRITE,MAYBE YOU COULDE PM
ME A LITTLE SNIPPET??

YEAS,I AM OKEY!! BUT IT WAS REALY SCARY!!!! NOW I HAVE A LITTLE
FEELING HOW PEOPLE WHO LIVES WERE REAL HURRICANE BLOWS MUST
FEEL!!!!

SOME ARES STILL DON`T HAVE ELECTRICITY AND PHONES!!!
WE WERE LUCKY WE GOT IT BACK YESTERDAY MORNING!!!

IT`S STRANGE HOW WONEREBLE WE ARE IN THIS HIGHTEC WORLD!!!!!!

GOOD TOO SEE YOU BACK GRUMPY!!!! :k :k
HOPE THE NIGHT AT HOSPITEL WASEN`T TOO SERIUS!!! :(

ABOUT ELIJAH`S SMOKING: SO TRUE ACHILA,IF HE REALY DON`T
WANT TO STOP SMOKE THERE IS NO HELP IN THE WORLD!! :(
ASK ME I KNOW!!!!


LOVE YOU ALL/WOOD

It's been a wild week, with an unexpected overnight in the hospital and a cardiac workup which showed a picture of some blue-eyed kid firmly embossed on my heart . Seriously, things worked out ok. Can't get rid of me that easily, y'know!

(((Grumpy!)))

Let's say the blue-eyed kid is good for the heart. I firmly believe that. I'm so sorry for your difficulties--and very glad to see you well enough to come in here. Take care of yourself!! :k :k


Happy Birthday Ereshkigal!

Glad you are weathering the weather, Wood :k

Happy Birthday Ereshkigal :k

Glad Your feeling Better (((Grumpy)))

BTW...Not Only is he about to purchase Beer in this scene he is gonna buy cigarettes!!!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v480/ylla/alliwant8.jpg



Even though I'm guilty of the same addiction Lij has(I smoke on average of 40 cigarettes a day) I also worry about the nasty cough he seems to have. Seems like chronic bronchitis if my assessment skills are correct. My lungs are in far better shape than his seem to be... as of late. Not that it won't get me too in the end, but I truly believe it's the brand he smokes rather than the amount he smokes...cloves are truly nasty things...1 clove is like smoking 7 cigarettes...very harsh and very addictive...if he's gonna continue I personally would wish he smoked something a little less damaging...not that there is a safe cigarette...none are ,but some are worse than others. Now,I feel like the people that annoy me the most...the ones that butt into my world imposing their views on my bad habits without remembering smoking is a real tough addiction to beat...it has no relevance to your intellect.It hooks smart people as well as stupid ones...and some of us just can't seem to quit successfully. I guess I feel more worried about what smoking is doing to his almost 24yr old lungs than I am about my almost 51yr old ones :o
Sounds like I've fallen in LOVE :eek:

Ylla =Denial

I also worry about the nasty cough he seems to have. Seems like chronic bronchitis if my assessment skills are correct. Far be it from me to defend his smoking habit (truly, it's really the only thing about him that I would change), but it might help to remember that he had been ill just prior to this 'interview' with Dom. He had a cold, or possibly the flu in Wellington (I remember him talking about a fever), :( and he was probably still recuperating.

I hate the way that cough sounds, but I'm hoping that it was exacerbated by his condition. Or, maybe it's just wishful thinking on my part.
:rolleyes:

I hate the way that cough sounds, but I'm hoping that it was exacerbated by his condition. Or, maybe it's just wishful thinking on my part.
Me, too!

I'm practicing Hope Unquenchable today, in anticipation of my 15 seconds in the glowing presence of the "radiantly darling" one. Hope that I don't trip over his foot, or do anything to embarrass Alyon, Eljah or me. Yes, Hope Unquenchable.

((((Grumpy)))), I'm glad you're alright! Sounds scary! :eek: I have to second what Alyon said:the blue-eyed kid is good for the heart

And Wood, I'm glad you didn't blow away! :k

honey!

Far be it from me to defend his smoking habit (truly, it's really the only thing about him that I would change),

Me too (although Eru help me, he did look awfully sexy smoking in those shots from the Hooligans set...eek! Did I just say that?!).

but it might help to remember that he had been ill just prior to this 'interview' with Dom. He had a cold, or possibly the flu in Wellington (I remember him talking about a fever), :( and he was probably still recuperating.

This is true. Actually, it was a cold that became the flu that became strep throat. He was a mess. Perhaps it was a combination of both things, but I have noticed that he's quite hoarse throughout the commentary and in the docos, and those were not filmed at the same time. Yes, I'm sure there's a touch of wishful thinking on all our parts, Bunnie.

Grumpy, glad that you are OK. I've missed your witty and thoughtful posts.

Achila, yes, cinema smoking can look so-o-o erotic,especially in black and white. I'm thinking of Paul Henreid and Bette Davis in "Now, Voyager," when he lights two cigarettes at once,and then passes one to Bette. "Oh Jerry, why wish for the moon, when we can have the stars?" (Don't really know what that means, but it sure sounds good!)

Ylla, thanks for the info about clove cigarettes.

No, no, no, Honeyelf! You MUST practice strategically falling in front of EW. So he can HELP PICK YOU UP!!! Or start coughing up a lung, so he'll offer you a glass of water. This is scientific research and you and Alyon must put all thoughts of embarrassment aside.

C4

HI EVERYONE!!!!!

YESTERDAY THE POWER WHENT DOWN AGAIN!!!! :(
BUT THIS MORNING IT WORKES :k

LETS HOPE IT STAYS LIKE THIS NOW!! :z: :z:


I HAVE CLEARD MY INBOX,IF THERE IS SOME ONE WHO HAVE TRYED
TO WRITE TO ME IT WORKES AGAIN!!!

LOVE YOU ALL/WOOD

Clearly, this board has to work on its positive denial. :p I did want to point out, as Bunnie did, that when EW was promoting ROTK, he had a wretched cold. When he did Jay Leno, he was clearly exhausted and ill. We were all on tenterhooks because he was doing Saturday Night Live, and he was going to Sing! We were praying that the cough would clear up so he could shine. And he did! I recall making a joke that the sign he held up in the chorus sketch, "Saving my voice," was precisely what he was doing during the rehearsal week, because his voice was so strained.

he's quite hoarse throughout the commentary and in the docos
I have to say I didn't notice this, but then I wasn't particularly looking. I did play them through, and didn't notice anything odd. Does anyone know where there is a current video interview we could listen to?

I am a nonsmoker and think smoking is gross, not sexy. But lots of people do it, although I wish they wouldn't. I hope the Lad gets sick of it soon.

Does anyone know where there is a current video interview we could listen to?

I am a nonsmoker and think smoking is gross, not sexy. But lots of people do it, although I wish they wouldn't. I hope the Lad gets sick of it soon.

The most recent I know of was the Jo Wiley interview in May, when EW was in England. I thought it was on the BEI Multimedia page, which I can't get to work. I listened to the copy on my own PC, and the giggle is there, the voice sounds OK, and there are just a couple of instances where he has to clear his throat.

As a non-smoker, I have more understanding and sympathy for people of Ylla's age who smoke than I have for younger people like EW. There is just so much evidence out there now that it is bad for you, and it is also so much less acceptable socially than 30 years ago. Don't young people realise that by smoking they severely limit the number of people they can have relationships with?

As a non-smoker, I have more understanding and sympathy for people of Ylla's age who smoke than I have for younger people like EW. There is just so much evidence out there now that it is bad for you, and it is also so much less acceptable socially than 30 years ago. Don't young people realise that by smoking they severely limit the number of people they can have relationships with?
Elijah was at a dangerous age when he started--not more than 17, probably 16. Not that that excuses him, but a lot of kids get caught around that time. And he started the way most kids do--getting hooked by an older (by 2.5 years) "friend." :rolleyes: Unless he's had to substitute in an emergency, he's never smoked anything but those clove cigarettes, since that's what he started on. I didn't realize they were so much worse--probably more addictive, too. Where's that director from Huck Finn who said he was going to "hit him with a stick" if he ever started smoking?

Skater Girl -- Pretty avatar :)

from Achila:
ETA: BTW, re: Lij's pronounciation of the word "heart" in the scene with Boromir on Amon Hen -- "...but for the warning in my heart".... -- is exactly the same as Ian Holm's pronounciation in Bag End -- "...I know I don't look it but I'm beginning to feel it in my heart." Maybe it just sounded strange to non-British ears?
Hmmm... How geeky do we wanna get here? :rolleyes: I've wondered if part of my initial problem with Elijah's pronunciation there--and in a couple of other places--isn't so much from listening as from watching. The language(s) a child speaks at an early age affect the shape of the mouth while it's still forming, and I'd think even accents could do that to some degree. I'd swear that for some British vowel sounds (the one in "heart" included) Elijah pulls the corners of his mouth out and up just a wee bit more than seems normal for the sound, moving his cheeks with them, and I've wondered if it's to compensate for some difference in his "American shaped" mouth. A lifelong Brit wouldn't have to do that. I think my brain sees something as not quite normal there and places it on the accent being "too British" when it's really the video that's exaggerated rather than the audio. (Watched FotR too many times? Who's watched FotR too many times? :p ) Could have been a result of the very detailed accent coaching. (Or of my overactive imagination :rolleyes: .)

(((wood))) Glad you're safe--please stay that way!

(((zkg))) I don't know about all that falling off the couch--but maybe it's good exercise :p .

from ceefour
...This is scientific research and you and Alyon must put all thoughts of embarrassment aside.
Honey and Alyon--have you decided which one of you is going to whip out the tape measure for the "golden ratio" study?? ;) (Now that would make an interesting photo op :D .)

I found the article ceefour linked to very interesting, in large part because the person who wrote it along with every "Tolkien expert" who's quoted in it--except Shippey--are all members of the email discussion group I mostly lurk in. Maybe that article gives a bit of an idea of why I said you're taking your life in your hands if you say anything positive about the movies there. :rolleyes: Not that I disagree with most of what she says, but it would be nice to see something more balanced. One thing I very much disagree with her on is the interpretation of what happens immediately after Gandalf's fall. Besides the factual mistake of inserting Aragorn where Boromir should be, I've never seen that as a comforting embrace--he's holding onto Frodo til he gets him outside because otherwise Frodo's running straight to Gandalf! She also seems to think the remaining Fellowship members don't run far enough before they stop, but in the book they can still hear the drums so they couldn't have gone too far. It's bright sunlight (in the book as well as the movie) so Moria orcs aren't going to be coming outside. IMVHO, the mourning scene is a beautifully realized enfleshment of the two sentences Tolkien gives us there. There are a lot of things he wouldn't have liked in these movies, but I think he would have liked that scene.

When she talks about dwelling too long on "Frodo's anguished face," I don't know if she's talking about the moment Gandalf falls or Frodo's turn toward the camera afterward. If she means the latter, I may have to nominate her for the "weird horse" club, Tolkien expert and all. :(

I don't smoke but I think part of the appeal to young people is precisely that they think smoking makes them feel part of something, included (in the smoking group, who think smoking is cool) rather than excluded from something. The old peer pressure thing. Didn't someone say Elijah was introduced to smoking, and to those particular cigarettes, on the set of "The Faculty"?

And young people are notorious for feeling invincible and not thinking about the future.

Wood, it was I who PM'd you, about the weather article. ;) I'll send it again.

...only one for Kate Winslet in ESOTSM. So probably no Best Picture Oscar nom (since they didn't get Ensemble). Oh well!

However, it did get 16 BAFTA noms, one for everyone in the cast EXCEPT Elijah. How crummy is that????

Achila, disappointing news on ESOTSM. Will have to see how the Golden Globes turn out.

...Didn't someone say Elijah was introduced to smoking, and to those particular cigarettes, on the set of "The Faculty"?
Yes... see how charitably I've refrained from blaming anyone (whose initials are JH and who starred in Pearl Harbor :mad: )?

P.S. Whose turn to start the new thread? We're only about 15 posts away. :cool:

Yes... see how charitably I've refrained from blaming anyone (whose initials are JH and who starred in Pearl Harbor :mad: )?

Well, that's the rumor, at any rate. But no one twisted Our Lad's arm to start up the habit.

Honey and Alyon--have you decided which one of you is going to whip out the tape measure for the "golden ratio" study?? ;)
I fully support this. Have a friend shoot video, please! :p

I really enjoyed the accent discussion. I will listen for Ian Holm's "heart" the next time I play it -- thanks, Achila!

However, it did get 16 BAFTA noms, one for everyone in the cast EXCEPT Elijah. How crummy is that????
Actually, I can understand this. Elijah was playing a character that you could hardly ever see -- leading to great frustration on the part of many people to collect good screencaps! :p He was always lurking in the shadows, as a deliberate part of the movie strategy for the character. I can understand how people thought they simply didn't see enough of him to really appreciate what he did with the character. It doesn't mean that his performance was comparatively subpar, only that the other characters had more visible roles.

And just one more thought on smoking: a lot of actors smoke to keep down their weight. When you have to be super skinny to play most movie roles, a ciggie is something you can enjoy that will not add calories, but burn them up. I can see an actor viewing this health risk as a part of their professional risk, much as a football player will destroy his knees (or whatever) to get to play the game and make the big bucks while he can.

I skipped that "Tolkien expert" article when I realized it was simply (IMHO) some yahoo trying to look smart and being harsh. I guess I just don't get this type of (to me) pseudo-academic writing, where someone tries to sound scholarly by making obvious comparisons between one thing and another, which are perfectly apparent to the layman. :rolleyes: I think there is no wisdom without compassionate understanding. That would account for some of what I consider mistakes on the part of PJ's production -- and that article! :p Just my humble opinion, folks!

HI ALL!!!

ACHILA,I MUST AGREE WITH YOU!! HE DID LOOK VERY SEXY IN
THOSE HOLIGANPIC,WITH THE CIGGARETT!!!

I STARTED TO SMOKE WHEN I WAS FIFTHEEN AND I AGREE IT IS A VERY DANGEROUS
AGE,THER IS SO MUCH GROUPE PRESSER.ESPECELLY IN MY SCHOOL
AMONGST THE OTHER GIRLS!!


HONEY,ALYON PLEASE GIVE US SOME NICE PICTURES OR VIDEO!!!!! :z: :z:

FLOURISH,THANKS FOR THE ARTICEL I HAVE PM YOU, A THANK YOU!!!!


LOVE YOU ALL/WOOD

I'm sorry I haven't had time to check the board in a couple of days--I missed all those nice birthday wishes (and pictures). Thanks, everyone.

I do hope our lad will quit smoking--I smoked like a fiend for many years (I started when I was 18), but quit cold turkey when I was 30. That's the best thing I ever did for myself, actually. If he quits early enough he should be able to reverse most of the damage to his lungs.

Honeyelf and Alyon--in case I don't get to post again, I hope you have a wonderful time at ORC and truly enjoy your fifteen seconds. We want a second-by-second replay when you get back!

Thanks again, everyone. Now that I'm 44 I'm finally over turning 40. Only took four years. Not bad. :rolleyes:

Actually, I can understand this. Elijah was playing a character that you could hardly ever see -- leading to great frustration on the part of many people to collect good screencaps! :p He was always lurking in the shadows, as a deliberate part of the movie strategy for the character. I can understand how people thought they simply didn't see enough of him to really appreciate what he did with the character. It doesn't mean that his performance was comparatively subpar, only that the other characters had more visible roles.

Oh no, I truly didn't think Lij would get a nomination for Patrick, considering how little screen time he has, and how poorly the character is developed. Considering all of that, he did pretty well with what he had. But when every other cast member gets a nomination, it does feel kinda crummy, even if it wasn't necessarily deserved (ok...I'm biased, I know!).

And just one more thought on smoking: a lot of actors smoke to keep down their weight. When you have to be super skinny to play most movie roles, a ciggie is something you can enjoy that will not add calories, but burn them up. I can see an actor viewing this health risk as a part of their professional risk, much as a football player will destroy his knees (or whatever) to get to play the game and make the big bucks while he can.

Speaking as a toxicologist, it takes roughly ten years to reverse the cellular damage caused by cigarette smoking, providing no pathology ensues. Lij seems to have this golden age of 30 in his brain as the time to put aside his childhood/adolescent "fun". So perhaps he will quit smoking then -- who knows? But at that rate, he'll be 40 before he reverses the damage he's caused.

As for actors smoking to keep their weight down, I don't think Lij has that problem. He appears to naturally have the metabolism of a gerbil -- lol.

PS -- Ereshkigal, you and I are the same age. I suppose that by the time you reach 50, you stop lamenting 40?

And just one more thought on smoking: a lot of actors smoke to keep down their weight. When you have to be super skinny to play most movie roles, a ciggie is something you can enjoy that will not add calories, but burn them up. I can see an actor viewing this health risk as a part of their professional risk, much as a football player will destroy his knees (or whatever) to get to play the game and make the big bucks while he can.
Elijah has connected his smoking with his nail-biting, as both being nervous (or whatever?) habits, so weight doesn't seem to be his reason. But actors do take health risks--at least some do. That was brought home to me when I saw an article that had pics of the filming of the close-ups for the Caradhras scene, after the avalanche. It was filmed in the studio, and the stuff used as "snow" is nasty enough that every person on set but the actors was wearing a protective mask. Of course, the actors were not only not wearing masks--they were buried in the fake snow, coughing it in, etc. Orlando talked later about how horrible the stuff was (I don't remember if it was in the cast commentary or somewhere else).

I skipped that "Tolkien expert" article when I realized it was simply (IMHO) some yahoo trying to look smart and being harsh. I guess I just don't get this type of (to me) pseudo-academic writing, where someone tries to sound scholarly by making obvious comparisons between one thing and another, which are perfectly apparent to the layman. :rolleyes: I think there is no wisdom without compassionate understanding. That would account for some of what I consider mistakes on the part of PJ's production -- and that article! :p Just my humble opinion, folks!
Yeah, well, these people actually are academics :rolleyes: , which makes it worse, if anything (IMHO). And I think they all have books published on Tolkien. IMVVHO, they're knowledgeable about Tolkien, but don't know much about making movies. And, for people who've read everything written by Tolkien XXX times (one of them--not the main author--has a 1600 pg. 2 vol. "reader's guide" coming out from Houghton Mifflin), they seem surprisingly willing to critique the movies (from memory) after seeing them only once. I wouldn't mind so much if they were more willing to admit their limitations and actually study the movies before writing about them. (It's interesting that, in everything I've read from all of them about the movies over the last few years, I can't remember them ever talking about the acting... or the sets... or the costumes...)

Most of them are also the type of Tolkienites that argue as a form of entertainment. Not that there's anything wrong with that, as long as both sides want to play. I don't, which is one reason I mostly lurk in that group. If you post an opinion or insight, it's automatically considered material for everyone else to tear apart, and I don't find that fun, no matter if I'm on the receiving end or the giving end.

There are other kinds of people in the discussion group, but all the ones who are quoted in that article are professional "lit crit" people (and one university librarian :) ).

Now,I feel like the people that annoy me the most...the ones that butt into my world imposing their views on my bad habits without remembering smoking is a real tough addiction to beat...it has no relevance to your intellect.It hooks smart people as well as stupid ones...

Very well put. The strength of the addiction can't be overemphasized. It's a physical addiction, and one that is so difficult to get past. It's just one that I never happened to fall into. (Chocolate, on the other hand...) I actually tried smoking a little bit in my 20's on the theory that if people gained weight when they stopped, maybe I'd lose weight if I started. :rolleyes: It didn't work. :::: sigh ::::

and some of us just can't seem to quit successfully.
To quote Arwen, "There is always hope". My bro and his wife smoked for 30+ years, and one day my bro. saw a man his age in a wheelchair with his O2 tank, and called his wife and said "We're quitting". They did. A co-worker who I thought would never quit got really bad bronchitis and started wearing nicotine patches while she was sick. She was able to stop. Given the right circumstances, perhaps others can eventually stop too.

I guess I feel more worried about what smoking is doing to his almost 24yr old lungs than I am about my almost 51yr old ones

Perhaps because he seems to be developing the symptoms of long-term smoking at such a tender age.

Sounds like I've fallen in LOVE
You and the rest of us! :)

~grumpy

SOUNDS LIKE IVÈ FALLING IN LOVE!!! :)

WELL YLLA YOU ARE NOT ALONE!!

I HAVE ALREADY FALLEN!!!! :p :D ;)


I GUESS IF YOU REALY WANT TO GIVE UP SMOKING YOU CAN
DO IT!!!!
BUT FOR SOME RESON I DON`T WANT TOO,CALLE ME A NOTCASE IF YOU WANT TOO!! I KNOW MANY IN MY FAMILY WHO WOULDE AGREE WITH YOU!!

AND THE MORE PEOPLE ARE TELLING ME I SHOULDE QUITE,THE MORE I SMOKE

CRASY ,YEH I KNOW!!!!! BUT THATS HOW I AM!!! :(

LOVE YOU ALL/WOOD

Skater Girl
I have been been interested in the smoking discussion...
Don't young people realise that by smoking they severely limit the number of people they can have relationships with?

Funny you should say that...

I think I have said this before..can't remember wether it was here, or elsewhere...I reckon the only way that Elijah will be persuaded to stop smoking will be when something gives him enough motivation to stop ! In other words, it would have to be something that he wants SOOOO badly, that he would stop tomorrow if he thought it would make it happen...

Like a relationship with someone he has fallen in love with ?
There's nothing like a really serious affair of the heart to motivate you into doing anything...all it needs is for some dark-haired beauty to turn him down for a hot date, because he smokes... ;)
He'll give up faster than you can turn round !!!

It would also be much more rewarding to stop for a reason like that than to have to stop on purely medical grounds...major health scares are NO FUN at all...( something our zkg has found out this week )...

((((((zkgrumpy))))))

I wish someone had kindly done that to me in my early twenties...it would have saved me SO much hard work giving up twenty years later, when I HAD to !!! In my youth, in Art School in the seventies, everyone around me smoked like chimneys, so there you go...

Alyon and Honeyelf

I cannot believe that you are only going to get a measly 15 seconds with Our Lij :eek: ...
Does anyone else have great difficulty in imagining anything worthwhile to say in that short space of time ?...

"Hello Elijah...we really love your work in 'Lord of the Rings'...here have a boo..."

"Time's up. ladies, move along now..." :eek: :eek: :eek:

I mean, really...how stingy can you get ?!!!

I cannot believe that you are only going to get a measly 15 seconds with Our Lij :eek: ...

I have to admit that I've caught myself more than once this week thinking

ONE sugar-plum-fairy TWO sugar-plum-fairy THREE sugar-plum-fairy FOUR sugar-plum-fairy....

Honey and Alyon--have you decided which one of you is going to whip out the tape measure for the "golden ratio" study?? ;)

No self-respecting quilter is ever caught without her tape measure! I'll see what I can manage! ;)

Too bad about the BAFTA snub. While Patrick's screen time is short it's absolutely necessary to the story, representing as he does the antithetical, hollywoodized, disneyfied view of "love."

HONEY,ALYON PLEASE GIVE US SOME NICE PICTURES OR VIDEO!!!!! :z: :z:

I'm taking my digital camera, Wood, so I'll try!

honey!

Honeyelf
You may be interested to visit this website...

Ringers (http://www.theonering.net/ringers/)

Also, the actual film that these people have made is describesd in detail here :-

The Quest for Ringers (http://www.theonering.net/perl/newsview/8/1105347106)

I am really looking forward to seeing the fruit of their labours, hopefully in the cinema...should be fascinating !!

I sure hope the rest of us get to see Ringers. And I have a vested interest -- my 11 year-old iguana, Frodo, is supposed to be in it!

I sure hope the rest of us get to see Ringers. And I have a vested interest -- my 11 year-old iguana, Frodo, is supposed to be in it!Hee! The idea of an iguana named 'Frodo' amuses me. Do you suppose that is what he looked like after he'd been in Mordor for awhile? :D

Achila, it's also possible that we might catch a glimpse of ourselves in that film. Can you imagine a film call 'Ringers' without some footage from the TORn party? I don't know about you, but for the latter part of the evening, I was kinda right up there in front. Sorta... screaming. :o So, who knows? Either we or people we know could end up on the Big Screen. :eek:


The other day, I happened across an article about baby names, and they listed 'Elijah' as still being among the more unusual names. I was a bit surprised, because it seems like when I Google that name (not that I do that a lot, mind *cough*) lately, all I get are baby pictures! Maybe it's a trend that's not yet in full swing... ;)


Edited to add: Ooooh... one more post and we hit 1000. Does this mean we have to start over? Again? ;)

Hee! The idea of an iguana named 'Frodo' amuses me. Do you suppose that is what he looked like after he'd been in Mordor for awhile? :D

Hmm..you mean...like this?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v236/aquila0212/Kirin%20and%20Frodo/frodo12.jpg

Maybe!

Achila, it's also possible that we might catch a glimpse of ourselves in that film. Can you imagine a film call 'Ringers' without some footage from the TORn party? I don't know about you, but for the latter part of the evening, I was kinda right up there in front. Sorta... screaming. :o So, who knows? Either we or people we know could end up on the Big Screen. :eek:

You're right. I hadn't really thought of that. My friend said that she thought she saw herself in The End of All Things, and I was standing right next to her. So anything is possible (shudders).


The other day, I happened across an article about baby names, and they listed 'Elijah' as still being among the more unusual names. I was a bit surprised, because it seems like when I Google that name (not that I do that a lot, mind *cough*) lately, all I get are baby pictures! Maybe it's a trend that's not yet in full swing... ;)

In fact, last year at one point, there was an article about baby names on MSN, and Elijah and Dominic (!) were predicted to be popular in the next few years. Hmmm...can't imagine why!

Achila,
I sure hope the rest of us get to see Ringers. And I have a vested interest -- my 11 year-old iguana, Frodo, is supposed to be in it!

I'll watch for him. My daughters submitted two drawings. The oldest drew a picture of the fellowship at Rivendell and the youngest drew the outside of Bag End and Bag Shot Row. Both drawings were previously submitted for the LotR Fan Club Art Contest too.

I hope your iguana and our drawings all make it in! :)