Khazad-Dum - The Faculty Lounge -- An Ongoing Elijah Wood Discussion #13

honeyelf

06-23-2006, 07:19 PM

Happy Birthday, SandCastles! :k :k :k

This little fellow comes bearing caffeine. Looks like he hopes the party will go on all night! :D

http://static.flickr.com/55/173528757_2c9947a132_b.jpg

***
Bunnie, I do relish the glowing words in that Japanese review of GSH you posted. :k It reminds me of something someone said about Johnny Depp: Elijah's frequently "...better than the movies he's in deserve him to be."

***
Welcome, NYChick!

honeyelf, concerning your post above about finding it ridiculous that people were very upset about Elijah's Elf cancellation - well, please understand that a lot of these people paid a lot of money to attend and were looking forward to the event. Of course the cancellation caused a lot of stress and disappointment, so it's only natural for people to express their feelings. Expression of feelings in a time of stress may not be always pleasant to the people that are by-standers. But if feelings, nice ones or disappointments, can not be expressed on messageboard, etc. that have common interests (among "friends") then messageboard would actually be pretty boring and sterile. I'm sure no one hates Elijah. I'm sure it will all blow over. :)

OK, I'm just gonna say one more thing about that which I should never have said anything. (Me and my big trap. :rolleyes: ) If I'd been planning to go to ELF when Elijah cancelled, I admit that I'd probably be bursting into tears at semi-regular intervals for the next week or so. Having said that, I truly admire those fans who are going anyway, to be with similarly inclined fans who have become friends; I've had the good luck to meet several sister fans (no "fellow" ones yet) and we've always had a great time!

What I see as excessive behaviour is the suggestion that Elijah cancelled because he is "greedy", or because of the supposed negative influence of his girl-friend. I've read words like "hate" aimed at Elijah this week. I guess everybody expresses disappointment in different ways, but - for me - that's ... :eek: :confused: 'Specially when he's cancelled to do what we all want him most to do, make a NEW movie!!!! *squee*

Should you disagree with me, that's fine. I suppose we won't change each other's minds, but I hope we can continue to "dialogue" anyhow! :k

humbly,
honey~

ETA: I meant to say that there's just something about Elijah in wearing such a generic suit; makes him look all the more exotic and unique somehow! ;)

Mechtild

06-23-2006, 08:13 PM

What I see as excessive behaviour is the suggestion that Elijah cancelled because he is "greedy", or because of the supposed negative influence of his girl-friend. I've read words like "hate" aimed at Elijah this week. I guess everybody expresses disappointment in different ways, but - for me - that's ... 'Specially when he's cancelled to do what we all want him most to do, make a NEW movie!!!! *squee*
Oh, O.K., Honey. I see now you meant the fandom in general, not specifically the fans in this thread (through which I scrolled in vain to see heated remarks printed).

Yeah, I have heard it mentioned in a couple of people's posts (on my LJ Friends list) that they've been hearing a lot of high feeling about the ELF cancellation. I didn't see the actual posts referred to, myself. But I did read the posts of people saying how disappointed they were, which was very understandable. I read no vitriol directed against EW, however (or his lover).

It did cross my mind, just for a moment, when I first read of the cancellation, that EW simply had made an impulsive, drastic break, deciding it wasn't doing his career any good to keep appearing at LotR fan events, as much as he obviously enjoys them. Before I ever knew about anything about 'fandoms' (including this one), I had read enough in the press about Star Trek and Star Wars fan culture to know that the industry tended to look down on actors who did a lot of fan conventions - or used to. They would perceive it as the mark of a has-been to appear at them, implying that they were living on past glories, having nothing better to do professionally in the present.

But I knew that was silly; EW would NEVER willfully offend his fans. And that is just what he would have done, had he cancelled an appearance for anything but truly compelling reasons.

~ Mechtild

honeyelf

06-24-2006, 02:01 AM

Oh, O.K., Honey. I see now you meant the fandom in general, not specifically the fans in this thread (through which I scrolled in vain to see heated remarks printed).

Oh, no way! Like I said on the page before:

...But everyone here has proved themselves to be the class acts I knew you all were! I tell you, the Faculty Lounge is really the best place on earth to be an Elijah Wood fan! (((Faculty Sisters)))...

And bro! You still out there TxTac?

honey~

Mechtild

06-24-2006, 07:13 AM

Oh, no way! Like I said on the page before:

Quote:
Originally Posted by honeyelf
...But everyone here has proved themselves to be the class acts I knew you all were! I tell you, the Faculty Lounge is really the best place on earth to be an Elijah Wood fan! (((Faculty Sisters)))...
My faulty reading. :rolleyes:

Go, Faculty Lounge fans! :)

ceefour

06-24-2006, 08:44 AM

Faithful Sam has come to the aid of Frodo again.

In a case of life imitating art, Sean Astin is filling in for EW at ELF. :cool:

C4

saile

06-24-2006, 02:56 PM

Go, Faculty Lounge fans! :)
AGREED Mechtild!!!

AS honey said The Faculty Lounge is really the best place on earth to be an Elijah Wood fan! (((Faculty Sisters)))...and (((TxTac)))

saile

txtac

06-24-2006, 03:38 PM

Honey wrote: ...But everyone here has proved themselves to be the class acts I knew you all were! I tell you, the Faculty Lounge is really the best place on earth to be an Elijah Wood fan! (((Faculty Sisters)))...

I concur. *Hugs all of the Faculty at the School of the One Lad*

*Note to self: "Why is there no smiley icon for "hug/s"?

...And bro! You still out there TxTac?

I'm still here. I think. I am definitely somewhere. I think I'm still here.
It's hard to tell right now. Threw my back out a few weeks ago. The pain med.s are wonderful! Taking another summer class, besides teaching a couple of classes a week and keeping up with the retail shop, I am in a bit of a fog right now. Need to remember that weekends are for sleep. Sleep? I still have paages of Elijah news to get caught up on. What's the intel dump on Vamp? I thought that it was a mistaken identity for Elijah's mini-flick in Paris te j'aime?
He has already shot Bobby, is currently shooting Day Zero, what's next?

(((Saile)))

Prim

06-24-2006, 07:30 PM

Belated greetings to all who have had a birthday while I've been away from cyberfandom. :k Hope you all had happy days (i noted a huge explosion of piccies as my computer slowly downloaded the pages, always a giveaway that there are birthdays here :) )

I've come back to comment on Green Street Hooligans which has been here in NZ for a few weeks but has always been out when I had the time to check (a good sign that NZ's enthusiasm for young Mr Wood continues). I really enjoyed it, if enjoyed is the right word. I thought it was really powerful and made the previously inexplicable attraction of belonging to a "firm" much clearer. I found the final fight scene totally sickening - a reaction I think was intended.

I do wish however that the final scene where Matt confronts the Harvard pratt had been omitted. I can see how to some critics this could read as endorcing Hooliganism. My first reaction to this scene was that Matt had learnt to be a man by his GSE experiences. It was only as I puzzled over it further that I recollected that though he threatens the pratt (can't remember the man's name ;) ) he doesn't give in to the temptation to smash him. And I assume that was the point of the scene. But it seemed a bit diffuse to me: I'm sure lots of viewers would have come away with my original interpretation. So I'm concerned and unhappy about that final scene. In fact if I'd been the editor I would have dipensed with the voiceovers and this final scene and cut away directly from the horrifying moment where we realise the boy (Pete?) has died, and leave the audience gobsmacked and sickened.

I'm not sure EW was well cast in this film, he didn't have the gritty realism of the other cast members, who, frankly, I would have blanched at meeting on the street on a dark night.And he seemed to stare for a lot of the time with what the Harem ladies call the "squinch" ? I found this attractive in Frodo and annoying in a would-be thug. But in some scenes Wood does effectively slide into character and then he performed amazingly well. And I have to credit him with the guts to participate in a film about a controversial and gritty topic- and one that is very topical. I just wish it had got a much wider release and much more critical attention. Frankly- it was a lot more thought provoking than a lot of the other rubbish highly promoted here.

ps Whiteling_ I scrolled back to try to find out what the scene was that you thought had been deleted on TV? But must have missed it though I went back about six pages?
Wityh its language it will only end up on late night tv here, if at all. Though the famous NZ film "Once Were Warriors" was, and its a lot more disturbing and had pretty foul language too- so you never can tell. :confused:

White Gull

06-24-2006, 09:18 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by honeyelf
...But everyone here has proved themselves to be the class acts I knew you all were! I tell you, the Faculty Lounge is really the best place on earth to be an Elijah Wood fan! (((Faculty Sisters)))...

*whispers*
This certainly is one of best places on earth to lurk.

White Gull

Mechtild

06-24-2006, 10:09 PM

Prim, that was an honest post. Thank you for reporting your response. Reviews have certainly been varied, many unfavourable, some quite good, though none I've read have been unreservedly positive.

I just hope I can see it sometime myself. I don't plan to buy it, since it just doesn't sound like a film I would care to see more than the once, only to see EW in it. I am hoping it will be available to rent around here soon. :) I am going to be visiting in the D.C. area soon and am hoping one of the video places near my mother's might have it. Movie rental places there are generally much better stocked than the ones we have here.

~ Mechtild

(Yes, it is a good place to lurk, White Gull - I didn't know you did, too, though. :p)

whiteling

06-25-2006, 06:07 AM

Hi to you, Prim :) and thanks for your Green Street Hooligans review! I SO agree, the final fighting scene is totally sickening.
At first view, the last scene could indeed be seen as though the violent events were downplayed and in the end only having been a thug has Matt teached how to feel his own strength. I think, this ending was intended to left the audience behind with a bit of mixed feelings. Matt has learned the language of violence, but he makes no use of it anymore. In some ways, I see him as a repentant sinner - he got into the underbelly of football, got scarred there, but emerges with a new level of awareness. After sampling that kind of life, he now can tergiversate and left it behind. (Don't know if I make any sense here.)

ps Whiteling_ I scrolled back to try to find out what the scene was that you thought had been deleted on TV? But must have missed it though I went back about six pages?

The only scene I can tell for sure was cut out was the one with Matt and Pete, sitting on the roof-deck (I think) and Pete tells Matt he'd teach history. As I haven't bought the Hooligans DVD yet, I can't tell which scenes were lacking on TV too, but they definitely cut out more than that.
(Btw, the Football worldcup pans out so far; no riots or hooliganism have occured :z: )

ETA: :D How could I forget? ..... ((((Faculty Siblings))))

txtac

06-25-2006, 04:34 PM

Hi Prim. Glad to see that you were finally able to see GSH and came away with the same feelings about the movie that some of the rest of us have who have seen it. Let me add a couple of points here.

1. GSH was made with the intention of being an anti-hooligan/ anti-violence movie. Most of the people, especially the critics didn't get it. They talk about the major use of violence and totally miss the point. It is because of the violence shown in the movie that we can see/tell that violence is not a good thing. Violence hurts. Physically, mentally and emotionally. Violence destroys individuals and families. Tommy's son Petie's death in an earlier fight which caused Tommy to kill Pete out of revenge in the final fight scene. The emotional pain and eventual break-up of Shannon's family. By showing realistically what the fights are, we can understand/realize that fighting/violence is not a good thing. It should be stopped and/or at least avoided, thus the anti-hooligan/ anti-violence message of the movie.
I am glad that you were sickend by it. See- the movie worked!

2. I do wish however that the final scene where Matt confronts the Harvard pratt had been omitted. I can see how to some critics this could read as endorcing Hooliganism. My first reaction to this scene was that Matt had learnt to be a man by his GSE experiences. It was only as I puzzled over it further that I recollected that though he threatens the pratt (can't remember the man's name ) he doesn't give in to the temptation to smash him. And I assume that was the point of the scene. But it seemed a bit diffuse to me: I'm sure lots of viewers would have come away with my original interpretation. So I'm concerned and unhappy about that final scene.
In fact if I'd been the editor I would have dipensed with the voiceovers and this final scene and cut away directly from the horrifying moment where we realise the boy (Pete?) has died, and leave the audience gobsmacked and sickened.
Allow me to disagree here. We needed that ending to:

(a.) Bring a closure to Matt's story. Remember the movie is about Matt, not hooliganism. If they let the movie end at the end of the big fight scene, we would be left wondering what happened to Matt. We would not be able to see if he learned his lesson, or not.

(b.)The anti-hooligan/ anti-violence message is told through Matt's life experiencing it. By putting Matt into a situation where he could have just as easily beaten the puke to feathers, or do the more "grown-up" anti-violent thing by finding another venue to do what needed to be done, shows that Matt did learn his lesson. Violence is not the answer. I am not sure that blackmailing his roomie was the right/correct answer either, but the script is/was not my call.

(c.)Matt was able to grow up. He found his maturity, his manhood if I may, through the vehicle of violence.

We needed that ending to tie up all the loose ends. I am still wondering what happened to Shannon, the baby and the Major, but I hope that will be answered in GSH2.

I'm not sure EW was well cast in this film, he didn't have the gritty realism of the other cast members,
That is exactly why Lexi Alexander specifically chose Elijah to play the part. Not only does he have the non-ego, but also the talent/ability to be the main character, but let the story be told through him, not about him.
Elijah is one of those people that you would never expect to be/get caught up in fighting/violence. The movie shows how aluring and adictive hooliganism/violence is to young men. Here we have a young man who has never seen, or evan considered being violent all of a sudden getting caught up into it. We see how he is drawn into the underground life of friendship, comraderie and violence. How he learns to accept and then welcome violence as that which gives him an identity, a direction and meaning in his life. Elijah is/was the perfect actor to tell this story. He did- and it worked IMHO.

And I have to credit him with the guts to participate in a film about a controversial and gritty topic-
In an interview that he did after the movie, Elijah said that he had heard about hooligans, but didn't know anything about them. He wanted to do the movie because it really was a good script and he wanted to learn more about hooliganism. In seeing how/why he chooses to do some of his other projects, Elijah is using films to learn more about history. To find out more about a topic by making a movie about it: a la EiI, Bobby, Day Zero. The Holocost, the 60's social/political/economic termoil, the Viet-Nam war and why people did not want to support it. It's an interesting way to learn history, but so far, I am enjoying it. ;)

Brummie

06-26-2006, 06:00 AM

I applaud everything you say, txtac, with one exception
I am not sure that blackmailing his roomie was the right/correct answer either,
I didn't think Matt had blackmail in mind; I thought he wanted his Harvard place back and now has the evidence to get it, or so he hopes. (I foresee a bumpy ride there; his initial spinelessness and acceptance of a bribe are going to take some explaining.)

honeyelf

06-26-2006, 12:10 PM

Ah, at last the GSH discussion begins in ernest! :)

SPOILERS AHEAD POSSIBLY

Hubby-darling and I watched it again last night. Hubby had seen it once in the theater, and at that time the most positive thing he'd been able to say was that he "didn't hate it." But last night he said that it definetly improved on a second viewing.

I've seen the film five times now. You know you've seen it alot when you can start to make out some of those very thick brittish accents and slang! ;) In watching it again I was stricken by how well crafted the story was. On first viewing the fight scenes all look alike, but if you watch them carefully they are each filmed in a way that underscores Matt's journey into becoming a respected member of the GSE.

In the first big fight scene in the tunnel with the Zulus, the camera work is choppy, frenetic, disjointed. I thought this gave a great sense of what being involved in such a fight would be like: you'd only catch bits of what each individual was up to, and the adrenaline would be pumping so hard that it would be like an altered state of conciousness. At the same time it was exciting, and I could imagine that if one walked away from such a skirmish one would feel a certain sense of elation.

Even so, Matt doesn't want another such encounter. The next fight scene is the terrifyingly uneven dust-up with the crew from Millwall. Matt at first mis-understands, and thinks they are seeking to evade the confrontation when Bovver hits the emergency brake on the train. But then Matt gets his idea for how to surprise their numbers-superior enemy. This scene is intercut with footage from a CCTV; these guys know they're being watched and they don't particularly care! He and the audience come to understand that this isn't about beating down all the other guys; it's about making your mark, upholding your firm's reputation, and "counting coup". I've read other viewers criticize this scene for how long it takes the cops to respond (IIRC that was their objection) but it makes sense to the story in view of seeing that this is about inflicting hurt, minimizing losses in your firm, and getting away to do it again another day.

The next fight scene we see is the one where Steve recalls the battle that killed Tom's son, little Tommy. We see Steve watch the boy die. He is still as he watches in horror, and the battle rages around him; Steve is filmed in the calm "eye" of the screen, as activity swirls around him. We understand that this irretrievable moment of horror will replay itself in Steve's memory over and over.

This is mirrored in the final horrific battle between Tommy Hatcher's crew and the GSE. The action is slowed down to almost a heavy liquidity. We see fists swung, and the result as punches land in faces, and clubs crush bones. The music is slower too, the song ballad-like, less frenetic. Even on first viewing you can tell that something horrible, un-do-able is ahead. Some people have hated the choice of music in this sequence, but I think it works to set the pace, to highlight the brutality of the fight almost by contrast. Matt has been in enough fights by now that he's more in control of himself, less driven by his fear. He goes in thinking that he's "not made of glass." He comes out with a memory that will haunt him the rest of his life. He's now had Steve's experience; he's seen someone die, and he'll never forget it. This battle will play itself out, with alarming detail, in nightmares for years to come where he tries in vain to change the outcome.

So I think the final scene was necessary to the story. We had to see that Matt had learned something, carried a valuable lesson away, one that had changed him, and would make him less willing to accept what life handed him.

I may have talked about this before here, but after seeing the film for the first time, I walked out of the theater feeling weirdly taller somehow, like I'd learned Matt's lesson too, but without the bruises and blood loss.

As for Elijah's performance, I thought he was believable as someone who could be seduced by all that. I think he was best in his moments of silence (which is not to say he was awful where he had lines! Far from it!) There were a couple of brief moments where he seemed almost unbearably prissy, but they passed soon enough. Maybe those were the result of seeing the film too any times, and of knowing it too well, or of my own mood (and I was in one last night.) The absolute lowest moment of the film for me is the scene where he bursts into the emergency room shouting "He's been f***ing stabbed;" I wouldn't be using that kind of language with the people who could save my bro-in-law's life. But it's quickly followed by the scene where he stops Shannon pounding on Pete, and that makes up for it.

I read one interview where Elijah says that he was intrigued by the script, loved the journey Matt undertakes. Then he got to England and realized that the notion that a Yank would be taken in by a firm was utter rubbish. He made the fillm anyway, and it's pretty powerful stuff, not perfect, but affecting none the less.

TxTac, glad to see you back, but sorry to hear about your back! My hubby tells me that you can't know how bad it is until you've been there. Hang in. I'm curious - would-be killed cat that I am - what you are teaching? I'll bet it's a world away from fine art, and a lot nearer a martial art, but I'm just speculating for the fun of it! ;) :k

honey!

whiteling

06-27-2006, 03:29 AM

Lady Galadriel (thinking): I do hope, Frodo gets that broad hint. At the latest, when the words "Happy Birthday Nenya! - Happy Birthday Narya!" will appear in the mirror, he will know how the wind blows!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0903/whiteling/Frodomanips/Frodo_mirrorandNenya.jpg

Hope, you two have a great day! :k

Screencap courtesy of Tg :)
----------

Txtac, Honey, thanks for your interesting GSH comments, especially Honey's analysis of the different paces and impressions of the fight scenes.

ceefour

06-27-2006, 10:52 AM

Happy Birthday, Narya Celebrian!

Happy Birthday, Nenya!

C4

honeyelf

06-27-2006, 11:13 AM

Happy Birthday, Nenya and Narya! :k :k :k :k :k :k

I got the convenient two-pack for our Elven twins. Double the fun! Don't fight over them, girls! ;)
http://static.flickr.com/50/144931008_7d0c21d5a7_o.jpg

honey!

BLOSSOM

06-27-2006, 05:08 PM

BIRTHDAY GREETINGS, NARYA & NENYA!

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y121/Blossom10/Birthdays/Narya.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y121/Blossom10/Birthdays/Nenya.jpg

Hope you're both enjoying your special day! :k

Ereshkigal

06-27-2006, 05:37 PM

Hello everyone. I know I haven't chimed in a while. I've been lurking, but without much to say since I hadn't had any new Elijah experiences.

Until yesterday, when I saw GSH.

You know, I really liked this film, more than EII, which surprised me. Wood's performance in EII was so restrained (as it should have been) that it kept me from enjoying the movie as an Elijah vehicle (which is also a great testament to him as an actor, that he can be generous to others and not take the limelight if his character so calls for such a role). But in GSH he has a bit more to do as an actor. I loved the scenes with his dad and thought the ending, if a bit contrived, was a necessary part of the story.

I remember Harry Knowles review, which remarked how Matt really only comes alive in relation to Pete Dunham, and I agree now with this review. I love how Wood changes his entire body language throughout this film, and actually shines in Pete's presence. I do think the film underscores how someone can only become strong through adversity, and in a society that strives to protect us from all adversity, we sometimes find artificial means of creating it. Sometimes it's through aggression (not the best way, admittedly), or pushing oneself (through sports or study or achievement), or, best yet, sacrifice (parenthood is an example). We grow up through this adversity, and usually come out better for it.

I think that is what Alexander was trying to show about the draw of hooliganism--it seems like a good way to become tough, strong. But she saw enough of that world to see how ultimately destructive the world of firms can be.

Fight Club explored this topic more elegantly, but also more metaphorically, without the attempts at gritty realism that Alexander undertakes. I'm currently trying to get my husband to watch GSH to get his take on it. He was no hooligan, by any means, but my husband grew up in a fighting culture. He played American football for a small southern town, which means the whole town gets behind the football team. Part of the Saturday night activites (games were played on Friday nights), was to go to the other team's hangout and fight. There were a lot of weird rules about this--if you beat the team badly on the field Friday night, you didn't bother with them on Saturday. When fighting, you tried to match up with a guy at least your size or larger, and if he played the same position as you, even better. And if they guy was drunk, crazy or scared, you left him alone, because those guys would kill you, especially scared (sounds like Matt's first fight, no?).

The idea wasn't to inflict permanent damage, but to settle grudges earned onfield. And it was strictly forbidden by all the coaches, so that made it all the more enticing. At the time, my husband, 6 feet tall, weighed about 225--all muscle. They still tell stories about him back home. And at times, when he's feeling his age, I can tell he looks back on those days with a good feeling, even though he avoids a fight if at all possible now. However, when one drunk out-of-towner pulled a knife on one of my husband's friends, it was my husband who disarmed the assailant simply by stepping in front of his friend and telling the knife-weilder that he'd have to take my husband first. The guy dropped his knife and walked away.

If I can get him to watch GSH, I'll let you guys know his take on it.

Wow, this was a bit rambly. Sorry.

Shelbyshire

06-27-2006, 06:38 PM

Narya and Nenya...

Wishing you both a wonderful birthday!http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v638/Shelbyshire/Elijah%20Wood/Elijah%20Wood%202/rotk-special-screening-017.jpghttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v638/Shelbyshire/Elijah%20Wood/Elijah%20Wood%202/domlij01.jpg

BunnieBugs

06-27-2006, 09:47 PM

Happy birthday, Nenya and Narya! :)

Breaking away from the current topic of GSH to relay an anecdote:

I don't really believe in fate. Not really. But, tonight I found myself in the vicinity of the only video store I knew of that still has a copy of Avalon, and it's on VHS (I don't know anywhere that still has the DVD). On a whim, I decided to go rent it so that I could finally see it.

When I took it up to the register, the clerk told me, "That will be $2.49. Or, if you'd like to buy it instead? It would be $3.00." Guess which option I chose. Go on, guess! :D

I suspect that they're clearing out their selection of videotapes, or something, and going all DVD, like Blockbuster has done. I will probably buy this on DVD eventually, but 'fate' dictates that I should try it out on videotape for awhile, first.

Whoops -- I was supposed to let you guess! ;)

Mechtild

06-27-2006, 10:16 PM

THREE DOLLARS FOR AVALON?????

Wow, that was a great bargain -- a gift, Bunnie. That's such a lovely film.

Congratulations! :)

~ Mechtild

Nenya

06-27-2006, 10:36 PM

Just dropping to say in to say a big thank you to everyone for the wonderful birthday greetings. Just got in from a great evening at Indochine, and am rather the worse for wear after a few too many lychee sakatinis........so am probably not going to make too much sense tonight.
Thanks a million everyone, you truly are the best! I'll thank you all properly on the morrow and leave a birthday mathom for you all :k
Muchas gracias
Nenya!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v56/kaylin_t/IMG_6533.jpg

So good!

SandCastles

06-27-2006, 10:59 PM

*shakes off sedation just long enough to sneak in and say*

Happy Birthday, Narya and Nenya!

*goes to sleep off the last of the loopyness*

SandCastles :)

saile

06-28-2006, 07:39 AM

A toast to Narya and Nenya
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v404/billiep/FrodoatGreenDragon.jpg

:k
saile

Achila

06-28-2006, 10:21 AM

ETA: What I really want to know is, will THE homemade audition footage be on these discs? :confused:
Don't count on it, honey. :(

And Happy Birthday to Narya and Nenya!

Narya Celebrian

06-28-2006, 08:43 PM

Thank you so much for the birthday greetings Whiteling (Mirror!Frodo is one of my favorite scenes), ceefour, honeyelf (I'll claim the orange shirt one, if I may. ;) ), Blossom (doesn't he look good in blue?), Shelbyshire (stunning profiles, if I may say so), Bunniebugs, SandCastles, Saile (I'll raise a glass with him anytime :D) and Achila.

:k :k

ceefour

06-29-2006, 02:21 AM

While wandering around the Internet, I found this from thefilmexperience.net. It's a list of 100 actors and what the author appreciates about their work.Elijah Wood scares me. His face is too wide. His eyes are too blue. His teeth are too small. But. But...I love his performance in all three Lord of the Rings films (2001-2003) even in the moments where you've seen him sweetly smile or go all wide-eyed with panic a dozen times too many. You never for a minute feel that he's less than committed to the mass illusion of this long-term epic. Frodo's disintigration feels a bit like the actor slipping away until all that's left is Frodo. And there isn't much of Frodo left at the end of that journey either. Which is why it came as such an enormous shock to me when Elijah Wood was suddenly with us again. In Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind (2004) he's amoral, lovesick, and creepy in the non-violent, socially awkward way. This is Frodo? Same thing again in Sin City (2005) where he manages to be scary by simply removing the acting. His body moves all predator-like but it's an ego less performance. His face contains but one expression. I know this sounds like strange praise. But Elijah Wood is a strange one. Few actors leave me as bewildered as to what their next decision might possibly be.C4

BunnieBugs

06-29-2006, 02:43 AM

While wandering around the Internet, I found this from thefilmexperience.net. It's a list of 100 actors and what the author appreciates about their work.C4That's wonderful, C4! Thank you for sharing that.

Frodo's disintigration feels a bit like the actor slipping away until all that's left is Frodo. YES. Oh, yes. Only, I never see the actor from the get-go. But, I still appreciate this praise.

I almost took exception to this (gee, I wonder why? :rolleyes: ):

His face contains but one expression. ...until I realized that they were talking about Kevin, and not about Elijah. Well... all right then; totally accurate, in that case.

honeyelf

06-29-2006, 02:54 AM

What're we all doing up so late?

CeeFour, that's a real little goodie you've found there. I particularly love this bit:
I know this sounds like strange praise. But Elijah Wood is a strange one. Few actors leave me as bewildered as to what their next decision might possibly be.

...which might well have been written by one of us to explain why we're still here. Elijah's choice of roles is fascinating, and each reveals a new facet to his shimmering talent.

Eresh, I loved your post about GSH and your comparison of it to Fight Club, but especially:

I do think the film underscores how someone can only become strong through adversity, and in a society that strives to protect us from all adversity, we sometimes find artificial means of creating it.

honey!

Prim

06-29-2006, 04:19 AM

Wow. Heaps to think about and not a lot of time. The comments on Green Street Hooliigans I have read with considerable attention. ( So nice to know that after all these years I can still rely on the Faculty for serious consideration of films and issues :) ).

In some ways, I see him as a repentant sinner - he got into the underbelly of football, got scarred there, but emerges with a new level of awareness. After sampling that kind of life, he now can tergiversate and left it behind.
I'm not actually sure what "tergiverstae" means but I see your point. I agree- Matt does leave it behind. My concern was: do the audience see this?

I see what txtac means when I rethink the film through the perspective of Matt. Yet I didn't watch through Matt's eyes on this my first viewing. I will watch it again and think about whether, looking at the film from this perspective, changes things. I watched from the point of the hooligans issue. To me, and this is a personal response, Matt was the outside viewer. The not quite belonging viewer whose existence slightly outside the issue throws a new light on the events unfolding. I'm not quite sure where I got this vision from: perhaps it was the title;though if I understand from your discussioins way back, that one of the original titles was "the Yank" (hate that, it sounds so insulting, yet it does focus the story on Matt and prevent him from becoming a mere narrator) and this makes it less an exposition on hooliganism than a story about the journey of a young migrant. Yet the final title undermines that and seems to make Matt a sidelien, a camera almost. Or does it? I'm not quite sure about this. I would love to know why the powers that be changed their mind about the title.

Going back to my original commnet; I saw Matt as a viewpoint rather than as a rounded character. To me, on admittedly the first viewing, the topic was hooligans, and Matt provided a perspective through which the viewer could judge the events. I think this is why I find that last secne so dubious. Are we supposed to see the growth of Matt as the imperative here? Or are we supposed to see the self destructiveness of the hooligan ethos? I found this issue ambiguous. But it was only one viewing and I will watch it again.

I too saw the similarities to Fight Club. I think this one goes beyond FG though; it seems much more raw to me and a much more careful exposition of the tragic attractions of violence. For someone who usaully avoids violence in film, I found the violence very effective in a distressing sort of way. I realise that the aim of the film was to emphaisise the ultimate impact of this sort of lifestyle; but still find myself wondering this: if Matt discovers his strength (aka manhood) after his experience with English hooligans, does that not tell the audience that manhood is revealed threough violence?

honeyelf

06-29-2006, 04:39 AM

Yet I didn't watch through Matt's eyes on this my first viewing. I will watch it again and think about whether, looking at the film from this perspective, changes things. I watched from the point of the hooligans issue. To me, and this is a personal response, Matt was the outside viewer. The not quite belonging viewer whose existence slightly outside the issue throws a new light on the events unfolding. I'm not quite sure where I got this vision from: perhaps it was the title;though if I understand from your discussioins way back, that one of the original titles was "the Yank" (hate that, it sounds so insulting, yet it does focus the story on Matt and prevent him from becoming a mere narrator) and this makes it less an exposition on hooliganism than a story about the journey of a young migrant. Yet the final title undermines that and seems to make Matt a sidelien, a camera almost. Or does it? I'm not quite sure about this. I would love to know why the powers that be changed their mind about the title.

Going back to my original commnet; I saw Matt as a viewpoint rather than as a rounded character. To me, on admittedly the first viewing, the topic was hooligans, and Matt provided a perspective through which the viewer could judge the events. I think this is why I find that last secne so dubious. Are we supposed to see the growth of Matt as the imperative here? Or are we supposed to see the self destructiveness of the hooligan ethos? I found this issue ambiguous. But it was only one viewing and I will watch it again.

You've got a point there, Prim. Matt is set up as an observer from the start; he is a 'journo!' It does sort of muddle things up for us as to exactly who's story this is.

And then there is the tragedy at the end which, I only realized on my most recent viewing, would have happened in some form with or without Matt's presence. The events were set in motion 10 years previous we're told, when Tommy Hatcher's young son was killed in a brawl with the GSE. Hatcher still wants revenge, and now that Millwall and Manchester United are to have a match again revenge will be got one way or other. Matt's presence only maybe accelerates the action a bit, since it's Pete's friendship with him that sets Bovver on his traitorous path.

I can see how looking at the film in this light would make the ending with Matt and Jeremy Van Hulden seem way too pat and sentimental.

honey!

whiteling

06-29-2006, 06:16 AM

I'm not actually sure what "tergiverstae" means
Oh, me neither. :D I chose that word from my dicitionary, since it seemed to express what I was trying to say: that Matt turns away from the hooligan scene, that he "changes his loyalities".
(from the Mirriam Webster Dictionary: Etymology: Latin tergiversatus, past participle of tergiversari 'to show reluctance', from tergum back + versare to turn)

And then there is the tragedy at the end which, I only realized on my most recent viewing, would have happened in some form with or without Matt's presence. The events were set in motion 10 years previous we're told, when Tommy Hatcher's young son was killed in a brawl with the GSE. Hatcher still wants revenge, and now that Millwall and Manchester United are to have a match again revenge will be got one way or other. Matt's presence only maybe accelerates the action a bit, since it's Pete's friendship with him that sets Bovver on his traitorous path.
Ahh, thank you, Honey, for saying this. I reckon, this was the reason that Eandme and I both thought of ancient Greek Tragedy/tales after watching the movie in Edinburgh. In the Greek Tragedy the main characters are faced with unsolvable conflicts - regardless, what they will do, what they will undertake, they always will be guilty, there is no way to avert the catastrophe in the end. There is no escape from fate.
I thought, the film's narrative perspective was an equally non-personal one than it is in Greek Tragedy. There are protagonists aka the hero, but the events are merely displayed, commented by the Chorus, and the audience is supposed to draw their own conclusions from what it has witnessed. On Wikipedia I found: "The philosopher Aristotle theorized in his work The Poetics that tragedy results in a catharsis (emotional cleansing) of healing for the audience through their experience of these emotions in response to the suffering of the characters in the drama." (Hmm, maybe GSH just lacks the end chorus which sums up all important points claerly? :p )
(Sorry for this pseudo erudite lecture, my dears :rolleyes: - I'm toddling off now... :))

Mechtild

06-29-2006, 07:48 AM

ERESHIKIGAL! Long time, no see! :k

Thank goodness, Honey complimented your post, or I would not have seen it. I still have not seen GSH, so every time I clicked a "Notification of Reply" button in my emails and saw it was a post about GSH, I simply didn't open the thread. I should never do that! Look what I almost missed.

I went back and read your GSH post. It seemed to have worked for you, making the made points it was purported to have want made. Including the part about humans growing by meeting [and surviving] adversity.

Maybe I will check for it again at the local video store and then -- Hey! wait! We are going away to visit my mother starting Saturday (did I have this idea already? - forgive me, if so, but it sounds familiar! :rolleyes:), who lives in the D.C. suburbs. (I'll be staying on for twelve days.) They are BOUND to have GSH at one of the video rental places there. Then I can see it at last! That makes me look forward to the visit a bit more.

~ Mechtild

ceefour

06-29-2006, 10:05 AM

Thanks, whiteling, for posting the etymology of "tergiversate." (I meant to look it up, but forgot. :o ) Its definition, also from Merriam-Webster, is "to desert a cause, position, party, or faith." (The stressed syllable is "ter" and the "g" is soft, as in gentle or geranium.) I like the faith part of the definition. Matt had no faith in anyone or anything and the firm became his faith for a time, until he rejected it.

Prim, your question about manhood being revealed through violence is a tough one. I've been typing in circles for a while. I think how a man views and uses (or doesn't use) violence most definitely reveals who that man is and men (and women) must address that aspect of their natures.

Wasn't it originally called The Yank to have filming done with the firm, but not let them know the film would be about hooliganism?

BunnieBugs, "one expression" about Kevin is accurate. Can no expression be an expression? :confused:

C4

Edited to correct punctuation and grammar. Helping Young Master ceefour get through 6th grade has its benefits.

Prim

06-30-2006, 03:52 AM

I chose that word from my dictionary, since it seemed to express what I was trying to say: that Matt turns away from the hooligan scene
and now that I know what it means it is very appropriate. And a new thing to learn! :)

Wasn't it originally called The Yank to have filming done with the firm, but not let them know the film would be about hooliganism?

Are you saying that original/real members of the firm were involved in the filming????? I have no background information on this film. Would a real firm be involved in this sort of project? Did they try to get one involved? If so, that would be challenging and very cool.

The Greek tragedy theme ocurred to me as well, Whiteling. It was so cool to see someone else say it here. :) I feel so much more normal and not quite such a geek... ;)

Honeyelf_ you apply a fatalism, sense of destiny, to the plot that I had not considered. Yet I think you have hit the nail on the head. Matt's presence is not a catalyst. He is a witness more than a protagonist. The train of events is set in motion well before he arrives. This relates back to the classic tragic element that whiteling raised. I am so looking forward to seeing this film again from a fresh Faculty inspired perspective.

Mechtild- I think this film is worth a viewing and has serious themes. It's not an easy viewing but I think it is worth it. Just be sure you are in the right frame of mind because, like many effective serious films, it could be a bummer if you are not braced for it. The underbelly of the planet is not always appropriate or timely viewing. And yet...I would rather watch a thoughtful "underbelly" film than most of the saccharine claptrap we seem to get here night after night.

I have term break now and will try to watch GSH again with a Matt focus and will also try to get EII. I think the latter might very well be right up young Mr Wood's street. I live in a smallish town with limited VDO outlets so wish me luck. Everything Is Illuminated sounds very much like my sort of film... I'm looking forward to it.

Mechtild

06-30-2006, 06:53 AM

Mechtild- I think this film is worth a viewing and has serious themes. It's not an easy viewing but I think it is worth it. Just be sure you are in the right frame of mind because, like many effective serious films, it could be a bummer if you are not braced for it. The underbelly of the planet is not always appropriate or timely viewing. And yet...I would rather watch a thoughtful "underbelly" film than most of the saccharine claptrap we seem to get here night after night.
Awww, shucks, Prim. I was hoping I could skip this film. :p ("Sure.")

I very much dislike graphic scenes of people being beat up, or beating others up. I watched a DVD of The Boxer with my husband, once (a film set in Ireland, portraying the effect of 'the troubles' in the lives of some late twentieth century characters), which was really excellent. But I would never watch it again (we are a family of repeat viewers) because the fight scenes sickened me. Very realistic, very brutal. I had to keep closing my eyes in Cinderella Man, too (another very good film set amid the boxing world).

~ Mechtild

Brummie

06-30-2006, 11:37 AM

I have been reading the Hooligans/Green Street discussion with interest - thank you for all your insights.
Wasn't it originally called The Yank to have filming done with the firm, but not let them know the film would be about hooliganism?IIRC, it was West Ham United Football Club who were deceived as to the true premise of the film in order that they would allow filming at a match inside their ground.
Are you saying that original/real members of the firm were involved in the filming????? I believe that Cass Pennant, an ex-leader of the ICF (Inter City Firm), on which the GSE was based, acted as consultant and also appears in the film as one of the police who beak up the fight at Manchester. (If anyone is interested, his review is at on his journal. I don't think I should link it, but google Cass Pennant, and scroll down to his entry for Aug 1 2005) They also had current firm members on hand acting as security and it was on talking to them that Elijah realised how unlikely it was that an American would be accepted. Having said that, I do believe that back in the 80s an American journalist did infiltrate one of the firms and subsequently wrote a book about his experience.
The absolute lowest moment of the film for me is the scene where he bursts into the emergency room shouting "He's been f***ing stabbed;" I wouldn't be using that kind of language with the people who could save my bro-in-law's life. Nor would I, but apparently it is authentic; according to my doctor daughter, sadly it is not at all unusual to be sworn at, either by the patient or his companions, when working in A & E.

It seems to me that there are a number of threads to this film, apart from the obvious themes of finding, and being loyal to, a substitute family and learning to stand up for yourself.

1) The role of a father. Carl Buckner's benign neglect and the opposite extreme of Tommy Hatcher taking his son with him everywhere, however unsuitable, are both shown to lead to disaster.
A little personal anecdote. It may be coincidence, it probably is, but about a fortnight after the film was released, there was a most unusual occurrence in the Youth Court where I sit. A 13 year old boy appeared in court accompanied by his father for the first time. The boy had fallen in with a local gang of youths and been involved in some abuse and harrassment. His father told the magistrates that he had realised that he was not giving his son the attention he needed and that he would turn over a new leaf and try to keep his son out of trouble.
I would have liked to have asked him what it was that prompted that change.

2) Reputation. Matt loses his own without a fight, only to fall in with a group for whom reputation is of prime importance, builds up his own reputation among the firms and then abandons it along with the violence.

Are there more that I have missed?

Pearl

07-03-2006, 09:38 AM

Pearl makes a rare excursion to KD to say: that I met up with Brummie at the London Film & Comic Con on Saturday 1 July, along with other long-time KD/Live Journal friends Ghyste, Opaline and Samantha. We hadn't meant to hook up with Brummie, indeed we have not seen each other for ages :( but it was jolly nice bumping into her! :)

Here is a slightly abridged version of my LJ entry on the day:

What happened was this: on Saturday morning I got up at the crack of dawn (6am) to get a local train into London so I could get to Earls Court in time for 8am. Huge queue already forming in the blazing hot sunshine. Met up with Ghyste, Samantha and Opaline.

Oh, and during the course of the day we bumped into the lovely Brummie, who posts at KD. I was wondering whether she'd be there ... :)

Doors opened at 9am, and Elijah was ready to sign autographs. Woooahhh, no time even for me to go to the loo! Ah, who cares. I'm in the queue, gazing at Elijah (those turquoise-blue eyes are like laser beams!)

Boring Bloke standing behind me and Opaline: "I should have brought me West 'am T-shirt."
Me: "You should have done!"
Boring Bloke: "Oo else are you seein' today then?" (Do be quiet, old chap, I'm too busy gazing at EJW to talk to you.)
Opaline: "Nobody. We're only here for Elijah."
Boring Bloke catches sight of Nerdy Bloke giving Elijah a replica copy of Sting to sign: "Oh now, that is sad, that is."
Me (thinks) Hello, you're at a fan convention, waiting for Elijah Wood to sign your West Ham T-shirt or whatever, and you're calling THAT guy sad???

Ah, it was good, but over so quickly. Elijah signed my copy of FOTR. (I have the six volume edition, slender black hardcovers with the Ring design, in a hardback case.)

Elijah does a photoshoot between 11am and 12 noon. Hundreds of people queueing. Mostly women (duh), and most of them quietly smitten (you could positively see the shimmering aura of smitten-ness surrounding them) but quite a few blokes (non-nerdy ones too) and a handful of small children.

Note to self: next time I have a photoshoot with Elijah Wood, bring a small child or a baby, because he cannot resist them.

The Comic Con staff were pleasant and friendly. Comic Con Bloke at the Photoshoot: "Sorry, guys, but no handshakes. Elijah's got a lot to get through today." Random cheeky lass in crowd: "Can we kiss him instead??" General mirth. Opaline to me: "There'll be a mass stampede."

Ah, it was good.

And all over in a fleeting second.

Worth it though. :):):):):):):):)

Opaline had to rush off to some party somewhere, so Brummie and I went to pick up the photos around 3pm. I overheard a Comic Con lass burbling on, apparently talking to the thin air, as she sorted out the punters' photos: "Oh, he's so GORGEOUS. He is just so GORGEOUS. I could pick him up, put him in my pocket or take him home in my backpack. My boyfriend wouldn't be pleased, he'd probably squash him, but I could keep him in the kitchen cupboard. He is so gorgeous. He needs feeding up though ..." I knew what she meant. Elijah was unfailingly polite to everyone, but looked a bit tired, I thought. I wanted to give him a hug and make him a nice cup of tea ...

Yes, the general aura of smitten-ness was palpable. *chuckle*

Afterwards (the other gals had had to go home), Brummie and I wandered over to Holland Park in Kensington and sat in the shade, eating delicious icecreams and enjoying the glorious sunshine. :)

PS. When it was time for my photoshoot, I smiled at EJW and said: "Are you surviving?" He laughed. "Yeah!"

PPS. I couldn't be a famous person. I really couldn't. Having to smile hundreds of times at hundreds of people throughout the day and always remain polite and friendly and welcoming, otherwise if you drop the smile for a second some hurt fan will go home and say, "You know, I met Elijah Wood at Comic Con and he was a right moody git ..." OK, I realise EJW's been doing this since he was about THREE so he's a total pro, but even so ... poor lad.

Poor adorable swoonsome lad with impeccable manners.

*happy sigh*

PS. Quicksilver, I am sending you something in the post today. Next day delivery. I know you'll be at work but they'll leave a card for you if they can't deliver and you can pick it up from the sorting office. I'm not trusting Royal Mail to send this one first class ...

Pelagia

07-03-2006, 10:32 AM

Pearl, thanks for your entertaining account of seeing EJW. Poor adorable swoonsome lad with impeccable manners. :lol:

It makes me all the more sad that he won't be at ELF this month. :(

Thanks to all participants in the discussion of Hooligans. Only Faculty members could find so much meaning in this film! (And I mean that as a compliment.) Lexi Alexander should be proud.

I found the following in today's online "Guardian Unlimited": Director angry over Lord of the Rings cuts

The director of three new "warts-and-all" documentaries set to be released with the new editions of Lord of the Rings on DVD this autumn says he was not consulted over cuts made by studio New Line.

Wellington film-maker Costa Botes was given full access to the set of Peter Jackson's fantasy triptych and his work is said to take a more critical approach in comparison to the original documentaries that appeared with the films the first time they were released on DVD.

He shot about 800 hours of footage, starting work a year before the cameras rolled with Jackson's full blessing.

Botes told New Zealand website Stuff that he is pleased the films are coming out, even though his deal with the studio means he will see no royalties from DVD sales, but is disappointed that he has not been consulted about cuts.

He said: "I had no opportunity to take part in this at all. They just shut me out completely.

"Once they figured out what they wanted to do, there was no opportunity to argue for any of the cuts and no opportunity to correct some really silly things that were done. It would have been nice to have been consulted because I could have actually finessed those things."

Scenes which have been removed include those of extras dressed as orcs singing Stand By Me, apparently because New Line did not wish to pay for the rights to the song. Scenes in which radios are blaring at the HQ of special effects company Weta have also been cut, as well as images of the tops of New Zealand's Mt Ruapehu and Mt Ngauruhoe.

"I can understand the Maori attitude to avoiding depiction of the peaks in the film ... but what have we come to," said Botes.

One of Botes' documentaries will appear on each of the new editions of the DVD versions of the three Lord of the Rings films out on DVD in August. The Lord of the Rings made $4.7bn (£2.5bn) at the box office between 2001 and 2003.

txtac

07-03-2006, 10:36 AM

Ceefour's reply to Prim,: your question about manhood being revealed through violence is a tough one. I've been typing in circles for a while. I think how a man views and uses (or doesn't use) violence most definitely reveals who that man is and men (and women) must address that aspect of their natures.

Yes, but also culture, society and local laws prohibit man from his nature thus causing a basic problem of man being forced to live and act out of his nature. This out-law aspect of hooliganism/ secret fight clubs is another way for man to be in touch with his aggressive, testasterone filled nature. It gives some outlet for the physical activity set in an urban environment.

Brummie wrote: I believe that Cass Pennant, an ex-leader of the ICF (Inter City Firm), on which the GSE was based, acted as consultant and also appears in the film

Lest we forget, Dougie Brimson who originated the ICF was one of the script writers too. The film was part of his vison also. You can check the archives on his web page to revisit his views an the film and anti-hooligan/violence message. He wanted a stronger anti-violence message that didn't quite come through as strongly as it should have.
http://www.brimson.net

Prim wrote: Are you saying that original/real members of the firm were involved in the filming????? I have no background information on this film. Would a real firm be involved in this sort of project? Did they try to get one involved? If so, that would be challenging and very cool.

Lexi wanted to make as authintic movie as possible. I do not know whether she used Dougie's contacts, or not, but several members in the background and especially in the fight scenes were "the real thing." Not all were West Ham ICF. I believe that they used other firm members to. If you go to the Green Street Hooligans movie web site, go to the message board. There was some talk their earlier with some of the real hooligans popping in to say a few words. If I remember correctly, in an interview, or two after the movie was released, Lexi said which firm's and members were used.

sneaking

07-03-2006, 02:56 PM

This is mostly off topic (does feature small picture of EW as Frodo) but I thought it was interesting, especially the reader comment about the origin of the Black Riders right at the bottom not to mention a Frodo quote in a mainstream article.

BBC article mostly about the Somme and Tolkien (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/5133000.stm) (I think it's part of a number of things they've had for the 90th anniversary of the start of the Battle of the Somme).

BunnieBugs

07-03-2006, 03:06 PM

Someone I know posted scans from what I think must be this book (http://www.amazon.fr/exec/obidos/ASIN/2012359094/403-3067722-4042802), which is a guidebook to the locations used for filming Paris, Je T'aime. I posted them in my 'scrapbook' over on LJ, but I don't think I can link to it because LJ linking (even to a gallery) is a no-no.

The images are VERY spoilery, but if anyone would like to see them, please PM me for the link, if you don't know how to find your way there. I also have some very spoilery info from someone who translated the text, so if you'd like to have that also, just let me know in the PM. :)

Prim

07-03-2006, 05:25 PM

Thanks txtc and Brummie for your answers to my questions. Its cool that they did try to get authenticity by involving real firm members. i don't suppose anyone has ever heard EW's opinion on the film or the issue of violence?

Yes, but also culture, society and local laws prohibit man from his nature thus causing a basic problem of man being forced to live and act out of his nature. This out-law aspect of hooliganism/ secret fight clubs is another way for man to be in touch with his aggressive, testasterone filled nature. It gives some outlet for the physical activity set in an urban environment.

If I recollect correctly this was the premise behind Fight Club. I don't know that I agree with it particularly. Is it the violence that attracts Matt or the team spirit and living life with passion? The need for a "hero"- even if it is an anti-hero? My kids (boys) get aggressive when they are bored and have been cooped up too long. A challenge (even a difficult thinking game) or a burst of physical activity seems to be the solution. Are males resally that violent or are they high energy, and thus often frustrated and bored? Perhaps they should round up all the hooligans and force them to play footie themselves, regularly and competitively (with lots and lots of practices) ;)
I'm kidding a bit here. To me the "man is an animal and thus is violent" theory doesn't work too well- but this is because[I was raised in a religious family and so i see mankind as a spiritual/intellectual being primarily.

I'm interested in Whiteling's comment that they seemed to have taken out the references to hooligans being middle class and with respectable jobs. Are they really? I find it hard to believe that a pilot and a school teacher could come to work repeatedly with bruising and still keep their jobs. Its not a good look, in both meanings of the phrase.

Last GSH question (promise). Why does Hatcher go afetr the Major? From the Major's flashback he doesn't seem to have been the one who crushed the boy. :confused: Wouldn't you target the actual fighter responsible?

Pearl: you lucky thing. It must be hard for EW to do this sort of thing but perhaps he knows how much his fans appreciate it. :)

Shelbyshire

07-03-2006, 07:25 PM

BBC article mostly about the Somme and Tolkien (I think it's part of a number of things they've had for the 90th anniversary of the start of the Battle of the Somme).sneaking, thanks for the link. I printed it out for later reading. I actually did a history paper for a college course recently on Tolkien and the Battle of the Somme. I began by quoting Tolkien's description of the Dead Marshes straight from the book.

And it's not quite OT. :) Elijah...Frodo...LOTR...Tolkien...Somme.

sneaking

07-03-2006, 07:27 PM

They aren't all pilots etc. But football has been getting steadily more middle class as a spectator sport. The (few) hooligans around now are probably less working class than they were in the heyday. This is because it is so expensive to watch these days. A low paid worker will not be able to afford it (or go to a lower division side).

A quick search says last year West Ham's home tickets cost £27-£45 for home fans, £27-33 for away fans, £435-£635 for a season ticket (all home league games). West Ham are a cheap side with low prices. You need to double or triple that for the bigger clubs. £1 = $1.8374. Add on the (considerable) away transport and ticket costs, the drinking money. With hooligans, you also have to have the need for at least some designer clothing (traditionally they wear the real thing, not fakes).

I can remember previous hooligan conviction news stories where it has been reported than some of the hooligans were lawyers, teachers etc. That may have been reported because it was unusual. I presume the usual excuse is contact sports like karate or kickboxing.

Brummie

07-03-2006, 07:56 PM

Thanks to Pearl for writing up Saturday far more entertainingly than I could have done. A potentially good day was made all the better for meeting up with her and Opaline. I concur with everything she says about EW. He was sweet.
When I arrived back home I watched part of Fellowship and felt more in awe of EW's acting abilities than ever.

Is it the violence that attracts Matt or the team spirit and living life with passion? In the first pub scene I received the impression of someone who was a bit of a social outsider at Harvard responding positively to being included in the group pre-match ritual. Until his involvement in the fight in the tunnel he is terrified of a violent confrontation (maybe even of any confrontation. What was the real reason he did not fight his expulsion?). Once the fight is over it is a different matter. It was not as painful as he expected, he overcame his fear and he starts to find new self respect. This time he did not run away from a confrontation and, moreover, receives the approbation of his new-found friends. IMO being accepted as part of a group whose members look out for one another which is the real attraction. Going through danger and adversity together bonds a group; this group creates its own danger and adversity in the form of violence, other groups go rock climbing, pot-holing, white water canoeing etc. The particular attraction that this low level violence has for Matt is that it provides an outlet for his anger at his father, his sister, Jeremy Van Holden and himself.
Are males really that violent or are they high energy, and thus often frustrated and boredHere in Britain there is concern that the vast majority of primary school teachers are female and tend to disapprove of and curtail boys' rough playground games. Perhaps the problem is caused by a combination of factors; males' high energy and the need to prove themselves in the face of a challenge and danger combined with a lack of outlets for this.
Why does Hatcher go afetr the Major? From the Major's flashback he doesn't seem to have been the one who crushed the boy. Wouldn't you target the actual fighter responsible?Who knows if any one person was responsible? TH was probably too involved in fighting to notice. IIRC the Major says he saw the boy go down under the boots of the GSE - I took this to mean the boy fell and was crushed in the general melee. IMO Tommy Hatcher holds the Major responsible because he was the leader of the GSE at the time and he needs some identifiable external person to blame and be the recipient of his anger. He cannot stand to face the truth, that the person really responsible for his son's death was himself.

Thank you, Prim, for raising these questions; it has made me go back and think much more about this film.

Prim

07-05-2006, 11:27 PM

IMO Tommy Hatcher holds the Major responsible because he was the leader of the GSE at the time and he needs some identifiable external person to blame and be the recipient of his anger. He cannot stand to face the truth, that the person really responsible for his son's death was himself.
True. That explains why he attacks so viciously in the final fight- he is smashing his own demons?

I know the Faculty has already discussed Everything Is Illuminated, but I've finall seen it and loved it. :) It was a great role for EW and he carried it off perfectly. (Except for those ludicrously big glasses which kept distracting me).All I want to know is one thing: why does grandfather Alex kill himself? I vaguely remeber a discussion on this but can't remember the details. If someone can direct me to the pages I will go check it out. I did a search but got bogged down.

tgshaw

07-06-2006, 10:17 AM

All I want to know is one thing: why does grandfather Alex kill himself? I vaguely remeber a discussion on this but can't remember the details.
Prim - The answer to this is completely different in the movie than it is in the book. IMHO, there was much more to it in the book than in the movie (which is usually how it goes). In this case, I thought Liev made a good decision in taking one of the book's several storylines to make the movie from instead of trying to do everything; problem is that the grandfather's death is really from one of the other storylines and is just kind of added on to the end of the movie without the storyline to go with it (IMHO), so the movie has to find its own rationale.

I think in the movie it's supposed to show him finding peace within himself, but I'm not sure if that means finding peace before or after his death. Going back to Trachimbrod and meeting with Lista does seem to give him closure with his past. Someone who hasn't read the book may have a clearer idea of what was happening in the movie than I do.

----------

I've been staying out of the conversation because I haven't seen GSH yet. - I did, however, go to Prairie Home Companion with a friend last weekend, and can say that Lindsay Lohan did a very good job with her part. I didn't like her character in the last scene, but that wasn't her fault. It takes place several years after the rest of the movie, so I guess her character could have changed any way GK wanted to write it (and the whole thing borders on absurdist comedy, anyway), but it didn't seem to me to be the way her character was headed at the end of the main story. [OT: Anyone who likes Prairie Home Companion should love this movie - How can you beat Kevin Kline as Guy Noir? :D ]

Brummie

07-06-2006, 11:20 AM

True. That explains why he attacks so viciously in the final fight- he is smashing his own demons? Exactly.

As I see it, there are two angry people in the film, Tommy Hatcher and Matt. Both blame others for their troubles and both find an outlet in violence. However, when the time comes for each to confront the true cause of their anger, the similarity ends. Tommy Hatcher focuses his anger on Pete in a ferocious attack on the person who has just flung the truth in his face, while Matt finally realises what his sister told him, that the fighting, while being a temporarily satisfying release, is not a solution. We see, and maybe Matt sees, what years of being angry have done to Hatcher, though no doubt he was much more prone to violence initially. To deal with his own anger he must go back and do what he should have done at the beginning, namely confront Van Holden.

And since I see it is now Friday in NZ, Happy Birthday Prim. Elijah is delighted too.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v84/Firiel50/IMG_2505d.jpg

whiteling

07-06-2006, 03:40 PM

Wow, Brummie, you hit the nail with your summary on the "two angry people". I thought it was spot-on!

Prim, we had recurrent discussions on EII - the most recent one (I think) is to be found here (http://www.khazaddum.com/forums/showthread.php?p=317221#post317221) (Make sure to look around the entire page of the old thread, since there were several posts regarding EII.)

----------
And apropos angry people....

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0903/whiteling/Matt_and_Pete_GSH.jpg

Hey, you two! Will you cheer up! It's Prim's birthday!
Tsk. Boys! :rolleyes: :D

Many happy returns of the day, Prim! :k

Prim

07-06-2006, 05:50 PM

Thanks for the link Whiteling! :)
the survivor's guilt lay heavily on him (only survivers often can't take the gift of life afterwards and feel they should be dead like the others who weren't as lucky). Jonathan giving him the bagged Trachimbrod soil, I think, was the point where grandfather couldn't deny longer that he was "from the same root" as "the Jew". Heavens, that was such an incredibly moving moment in the film! And then Lista's question "Is the war over?" meant to grandfather not only that WW II was over, but that his own war had come to an end. With what he had had experienced, he could neither live nor die until that day (that fits to Alex's notice that grandfather "seems to be in a dream"). I could understand that he, now that he eventually acknowledged what really had happend, could finally say yes to his roots and as though awakening from a long dream, say yes to death, whom he cheated so long time ago. Now he could go in peace.

This explanation really fits perfectly. It also explains why he looked so peaceful in death. I really liked the scene of his funeral where they pull back and you suddenly realise they are not in a conventional cemetary but have buried him next to the Trachimbod memorial.

I'm reluctant to read the book, tg, since I enjoyed the movie so much it might spoil it. On the page Whiteling linked to, one review stated it was a wonderful blend of eastern film dead pan humour, and western traditions. I don't know anything about eastern european films but EII does have a different feel to it than standard films that come out here. It was a strange but fascinating blend of real and surreal. I will buy it when it comes out in the shops (I'm sure I can get it through Auckland). What a bummer I didn't get to see it on the big screen! It was advertised quite a lot on TV here and though it did not show for very long it seems to have been very well received.

It must have been so difficult at times for EW to keep a straight face while playing Jonathan. Some of Alex's lines were so funny, and Jonfen's personality is effectively the opposite of Wood's! Wouildn't it be great to see out take's!

The two angry men thing in Hooligans did not ocurr to me. But what a good point, Brummie. Of course Matt is angry: his life has just been wrecked by a rich Pratt. I didn't see it like this- that the Hooligan's lifestyle taps into his repressed rage. It makes a lot more sense to me now. Thanks for that insight. :)

Thanks for the birthday greetings. Its great to have a birthday on this day in NZ as its Term break, so I'm on holiday!
I'm off for lunch. Thanks again for your link Whiteling. :)

BLOSSOM

07-06-2006, 06:06 PM

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y121/Blossom10/Birthdays/Prim.jpg

Have a lovely day! :)

It's good to know you're getting the opportunity to catch up with TOL's films. :cool:

Pearl - Thanks for your LF&CC report. :)

Mariole

07-07-2006, 09:22 AM

Happy Birthday, Prim!

I'm so glad you enjoyed EII. I did as well. It's my habit to see the movie first, which is necessarily less complicated, and then read the book. I was astonished to discover how different they were. I found the climactic scene in EII (the revelation in the movie) to be extremely powerful and upsetting. The book went even deeper, but the surround was so different, it really was a different experience. I was hoping to read the book to gain more insight into the grandfather's last act, but of course did not find it, because the grandfather's story was different in the book. So I'd say either choice for you is fine: enjoy your memories of the movie as you are now, or read the book, but be prepared for a different story. :)

I also saw GSH through the kindness of our Faculty librarian. :k I've held off making any comments, because I wanted to read the previous discussion on the book. I have those pages bookmarked, but haven't had time to read them. But since we're talking about it, I found that I really enjoyed the acting in it. The accents didn't bother me, but I'm an American, so the nuances of Cockney are lost on me. The dialog for me boiled down to, "I can understand that line" or "I have no idea what that guy just said." :p

GSH SPOILERS -- and not happy ones. If you really liked this movie, skip this!
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Seriously, this is a critical write-up. Please skip this if that will upset you!

I know many people enjoyed the story, but I could not get past what to me seemed like great weaknesses in the characters and the plot. I did not find Elijah's character at all believable as written. Lexi did a great job with the Firm members (in my ignorance, I believed it all!) but she certainly did not capture the mindset of anyone who had gotten into Harvard. Harvard! These are very brain-oriented people. That someone who had that type of background would find the physical outlet of the Firm at all attractive just flabberghasted me. Matt would have found a clever solution to his problem and acted on it-- right away, not merely at the movie's end. Also, he despised his father's efforts to help him, but ends up implementing a very similar solution hinself. So the character just didn't work for me. I loved Elijah's acting, but it wasn't a convincing performance because the character wasn't convincing. But then, I know people who have gone to Harvard. I haven't known any Firm members, but I have known American gang members. These are two completely different worlds, true. But the animalistic nature of one would not be attractive to someone who was used to using his brain. It's just foolish; when you're smart, you have so many more resources available to you than using your fists. I just didn't see the appeal of this huge step backward for Matt.

As for the final confrontation, it became silly to me. I just adored the character of the guy Matt's sister married. He had a really interesting story, and was the most compelling character to me in the film--the only one with any strength of character. But here's what happens. After literally years of living with this possibility of revenge hanging over their heads, the wife chooses the moment he gets injured to leave the country. I thought that was pretty lame of her; surely they'll be safe enough in the hospital, if they've been safe living in their own house for all these years! So she decides to abandon her good-hearted husband who was hurt through no fault of his own. Then when Matt turns up missing, what does she do? Put her little baby in the car and drive around looking for the biggest gang war in ten years to put her child into. The same war she was leaving her wounded husband and country to avoid! No mother I can imagine (except a mentally disturbed one) would do this. The baby trumps the brother, every single time.

So that made Pete's sacrifice an artificial one, because he died protecting this dead-brain mom and her kid, when she never should have been there. I don't mind being emotionally manipulated, but a good movie does it arising from the situation. To me, the climax was an impossible situation, so the emotional impact was missing. I was just shaking my head all through it, saying, Unbelievable.

I liked the end to Matt's story, although I wondered why he didn't just do that in the first place. There are people who saw him "grow" through his violence, but I don't believe this type of mindless fisticuffs builds character. Violence is a retreat into a terrible, dead-end solution, as exemplified wonderfully by the completely pointless and frustrating repetition of injury these gang members kept doing to themselves and others. Learning to handle oneself physically can lead to increased confidence, as in karate. But that environment is one of teaching responsible practices and encouraging spiritual growth. These guys were drinking heavily and bashing one another for kicks. Matt was lucky he wasn't killed, because he received no instruction of any kind. His firm members were stunned and pleased when, purely by accident, he acquitted himself well in a fight. I suppose if Matt had never had any positive reinforcement for a physical act, this might carry some weight. But again, I found it hard to believe. Successful fighting also takes training and talent, and injuries are common even then. Overall, I have to say Matt's survival was just pure luck. How much confidence can arise out of pure luck?

Still, I liked the movie more than Ash Wednesday, which remains my all-time low. Some of the firm members had interesting stories, and the performances were uniformly good. I tend to come down very hard on the screenwriter when I film isn't successful, and I'm afraid that was my reaction here. If Lexi had chosen some other background for Matt, something not as ridiculously prestigious as Harvard, I might have had a chance of believing his story. But I think Matt would have to be slightly dim bulb to find a gang environment appealing; this is something an intelligent person evolves from, doesn't sink to. But I'd like to reinforce that these are my own opinions (obviously) based on my own experiences of American gang and college people (not to mention American moms). :) This is just one viewer's reaction to a film that, IMHO, was not entirely successful. Cheers.

Achila

07-07-2006, 09:39 AM

Hi all -- long time, no see...

Firstly, Happy Birthday, Prim -- I hope it was a great day!

I wanted to respond to some of Mariole's thoughtful comments on GSH, not to change your mind, of course, but perhaps to add a little further insight.

GSH SPOILERS -- .
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Lexi did a great job with the Firm members (in my ignorance, I believed it all!) but she certainly did not capture the mindset of anyone who had gotten into Harvard. Harvard! These are very brain-oriented people. That someone who had that type of background would find the physical outlet of the Firm at all attractive just flabberghasted me. Matt would have found a clever solution to his problem and acted on it-- right away, not merely at the movie's end.

As a long-time academic myself, I can tell you from my own experience that book smarts do not necessarily translate to life (or street) smarts. Merely being *at* Harvard, as prestigious as it is, doesn't truly convey anything, especially since Matt is (presumably) a legacy and would've been coveted because of his high-profile father. But putting that aside for a moment, Matt is damaged goods, for lack of a better term. His mother is dead and his father might as well be for all the care he's shown. He's estranged from his sister -- he hasn't seen her in years. So he's adrift with no support system. Even the smartest people can become embroiled in something stupid (e.g., drug addiction) when they're lost in life with no anchor (hmm...I'm full of nautical metaphors today, it would appear).

Matt is a prime candidate for recruitment into this group that is so fiercely loyal to each other. It's the surrogate family he's craving. So I don't find this all that unbelievable, and I think this' Lexi's main point -- ANYONE can become a member of a gang/firm if they're emotionally vulnerable. This is human nature.

But the animalistic nature of one would not be attractive to someone who was used to using his brain. It's just foolish; when you're smart, you have so many more resources available to you than using your fists. I just didn't see the appeal of this huge step backward for Matt.

Again -- you can have the smartest, biggest, best brain in the world, but when your heart is empty and aching, you can do stupid things. And the whole point of the film is that when faced with just such a choice, even the most "unlikely character imaginable" can act from their "animal brain".

So she decides to abandon her good-hearted husband who was hurt through no fault of his own. Then when Matt turns up missing, what does she do? Put her little baby in the car and drive around looking for the biggest gang war in ten years to put her child into. The same war she was leaving her wounded husband and country to avoid! No mother I can imagine (except a mentally disturbed one) would do this. The baby trumps the brother, every single time.

At this, I totally agree -- this was a very silly plot device to put her in harm's way, so Matt could save her. That he doesnt' really is also interesting -- right there, it shows you that his choice was wrong. He's not as brawny and tough as he thinks -- he has no business being there.

But that environment is one of teaching responsible practices and encouraging spiritual growth. These guys were drinking heavily and bashing one another for kicks. Matt was lucky he wasn't killed, because he received no instruction of any kind. His firm members were stunned and pleased when, purely by accident, he acquitted himself well in a fight. I suppose if Matt had never had any positive reinforcement for a physical act, this might carry some weight. But again, I found it hard to believe. Successful fighting also takes training and talent, and injuries are common even then. Overall, I have to say Matt's survival was just pure luck. How much confidence can arise out of pure luck?

Also completely agree here. It seems fantastic to imagine that a guy who'd never even thrown a punch before could take care of himself in this sort of fight.

ceefour

07-07-2006, 03:55 PM

Happy Birthday, Prim!

C4

Prim

07-07-2006, 07:09 PM

Thankyou for the new wallpaper for my desktop Blossom. :) And thanks for the birthday greetings C4, Achila and Mariole. :)

Your review of GSH was really interesting Mariole!! I agree with some of your points: the mum turning up didn't surprise me, but with the baby???? I sort of suppose we are supposed to believe she hoped to arrive before any violence, and/or that the violence would not include her. And that last point was what I thought: I was worried she was going to witness the death of Matt or Pete; it didn't occur to me that the Hatcher would go for her since there is no indication in the rest of the film that the violence was deliberately targeted at women and kids and I always thought that when these people got hurt it was by accident.ie wrong place wrong time.

Following on from that thought: hooligan gangs seem to me (as a Nzer, not as a Brit so I could be wrong) to be significantly different from gangs here. Here they are literally your alternate family and they often live, or at least spend most of their time, in gang houses. They usually don't have a separate day life- crime, prostitution etc are their employ and they therefore don't have the "double life" of hooligans. They also follow less "rules". Gang warfare here breaks out after a random insult or some perceived form of attack and at any time; the film presupposes that its primarily (though not exclusively) focused on the soccer matches, and hence the intense interest on the team match draw.
So, to finally get to my main point: its not the same sort of gang activity and hence less disreputable and less a whole life committment. I can see a supposedly academic person slipping into this sort of double life, I guess. Its the school teacher I have trouble with: how can you have a job under which you are so scrutinised and still be involved in criminal fights/riots??? Are British school authorities blind morons? :confused:

My only really serious plot point weirdness is the fact that Steve (I hope that's his name, I don't have the dvd here, the one who married Matt's lovely sister) let Pete take Matt to a game knowing FULL WELL what would happen since he himself used to orchestrate it in his role as the Major. And the sister, who has made her husband swear to never get involved in this world again on pain of her leaving him, smiles sweetly and doesn't seriously object! Huh? I found that SO unlikely. I can see the difficulty: how to get Matt into the firm, but that even on the first viewing this really didn't ring true. Plus, I think its rude to go out when your long unseen brother, in trouble, has just arrived. It would never happen in my family. Everyone would stay home and catch up.

BTW I can see why the sister leaves: she has placed her husband under an oath to stay out of the firm's business. He has broken her trust. She doesn't wait to find out the details. I like to think that once she cools down in the USA, she rethinks and contacts him. (I like happy endings ;) )

Shelbyshire

07-07-2006, 10:14 PM

Prim, I'm sorry. I feel asleep just looking at Frodo and Sam sleeping.

We all hope your birthday was wonderful! In fact, it's still you're birthday
here (Eastern Standard Time) so if you want to party a little longer, go for it!! :)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v638/Shelbyshire/tttgal291b.jpg

Alyon

07-08-2006, 12:16 AM

I'm sorry I haven't been around a lot lately, but I do check in to lurk. Happy Birthday to all I've missed. Prim being the most recent!!
Prim:
I'm reluctant to read the book, tg, since I enjoyed the movie so much it might spoil it.

Prim, I don't think Everything is Illuminated, the book, will spoil the movie for you. I could be wrong, but I liked them both very much. The movie wraps things up so much more tha does the book. It explains things that are not explained in the book, and those explanations aren't necessarily the ones you would favor in reading the book. But both work well. It's more likely that the person who read the book first would possibly miss what is left out of the book (though I still very much liked the movie, though I had read the book when I viewed it), but I think if you liked the movie you might very much like the expanded story and enjoy pondering questions that are not ever fully answered. It's a bunch of life thrown at you, with an over-arching theme that has many vague facets. If you read it, then check out the EII book thread somewhere here in KD. :)

As to GSH, I can't enter the discussion because I didn't really like it enough to give it a lot of deep thought. But I'm thinking that I should watch it again. Honey said her husband liked it much better during the second viewing. Maybe I'll give it a go.

Pearl, loved your account of meeting Elijah. And so wonderful you and Brummie met up!!! :cool:

Mariole

07-08-2006, 07:59 AM

Alyon, always good to see you! I very much agree with your EII book vs. movie remarks.

Thank you for your thoughtful responses, Prim and Achila. I am glad to see another view, which is what I like about message boards.

Prim, I agree with your "serious plot point weirdness" regarding Steve. I like to think that he just thought this American would be so alienated by the gang that he would never successfully mix with them-- although this still makes Pete a strange choice of chaperone for this newly arrived visitor. Perhaps Steve didn't care if Matt was set adrift in the city, as long as he (Steve) got laid that night.

The American gangs I grew up with were not involved in major crime, but lots of petty theft, drugs, things of that nature. Violence was random and vengeance-based. I think the British gangs were unique in their focus on soccer, but we need a Brit to tell us if the movie was really accurate here. :) Interesting point about "British school authorities [being] blind morons" -- any comment on that, UK folks? In the US, I think you could get away with it, as your life outside your work is considered your own. As long as you show up and be responsible, there would be no need to investigate your private doings. (Of course, landing in police custody would be a career ender.)

Achila, loved your analysis of Matt as "damaged goods". At least it's possible for me to see how he could become so caught-up in this "all for one and one for all" support system. So thank you for that. I still wince about Harvard, because even as a legacy, it's by no means certain you can get in. I know of one legacy son who just failed to get in, even though he had a great record. It's so extremely competitive. The kids I see going into these high-class schools are the cream of the crop, and I don't see them becoming lost the way Matt did. But we can pretend this movie was based on an earlier period when all you really needed as credentials was a sufficiently prestigious dad. I'm sure that's still true for a subset of kids even today. But this is just the view of someone watching friends and family trying to place their amazingly high-achieving kids into college (way more high-achieving than I ever was, I assure you!). I'm not in academia, so I'm sure you know more of the matter.

Thanks again for the thoughtful responses! Cheers.

txtac

07-08-2006, 02:03 PM

Prim wrote:
Last GSH question (promise).
Wanna bet? :haha:
Why does Hatcher go afetr the Major? From the Major's flashback he doesn't seem to have been the one who crushed the boy. Wouldn't you target the actual fighter responsible?
In a large brawl, it is pretty hard to just stop and look around to see what the other people are doing much less remember who did what to whom and when. The military historian Von Clauswitz (sp?) said it right when he refered to combat as a "big furball." I would be suprised if anyone saw who was pounding on Petie Hatcher. Probably several people over any given length of time. Who ever did is certainly not going to say so.

It really doesn't matter because it was "the other side that did it." In lieu of a specific performer, everyone is guilty and will be met punishment. This is where the phrase "Kill them all and let God sort it out" comes from. For Tommy Hatcher, his anger/grief/need-for-retribution was so great, that any and all of the GSE would suffice. Maybe. There does come that point where all is not enough. This was a blood feud not between Millwall and West Ham, but between Tommy Hatcher and the GSE.

I can see a supposedly academic person slipping into this sort of double life, I guess. Its the school teacher I have trouble with: how can you have a job under which you are so scrutinised and still be involved in criminal fights/riots??? Are British school authorities blind morons?
The School Board down here just fired a school teacher for having "art" photographs (read porn) up on the internet. How many school teahers have been busted over the last couple of years for having sex with 14 and 15 year olds? Unfortunately, teachers are human too. If fighting is the local social thing to do than I can very easily see them there relieving the stress from teaching rambunctious children all day. Ever try teaching a class of out-of-control whatever years? Trust me. At the end of the day you just what to pound the feathers out of anyone. It doesn't matter who.

My only really serious plot point weirdness is the fact that Steve let Pete take Matt to a game knowing FULL WELL what would happen since he himself used to orchestrate it in his role as the Major.
If you watch the sequence again, Steve tells Pete to take Matt straight to the game and straight back home. No funny business along the way. Steve clearly does not want Matt to get hurt. The big fights are definitely arranged ahead of time. The time and place is coordinated so that everyone can get to the location of the fight well away from the crowds and cameras. Straight to the game and straight home would preclude that time needed to travel out to a very secluded spot out in the middle of nowhere to attend a big fight.

Mariole wrote: Matt was lucky he wasn't killed, because he received no instruction of any kind. I will disagree here. If you go back and look at the movie sequence right after the first fight scene, one of the other GSE members comments about Matt's "technique" and says something along the lines of "we've got to take care of that. Meaning that he/they were going to have to teach Matt how to fight. In the first fight scene, Matt was "windmilling" like a girl. In the next fight scenes, he was looking like he knew what he was doing. The movie did not show Matt being taught how to fight, but the inference is there in the words and actions that he was taught.

Prim

07-08-2006, 04:21 PM

from txtc If fighting is the local social thing to do than I can very easily see them there relieving the stress from teaching rambunctious children all day. Ever try teaching a class of out-of-control whatever years? Trust me. At the end of the day you just what to pound the feathers out of anyone. It doesn't matter who.
I relate to the idea of thumping the heck out of something (eek...not quite someone though) as I'm a secondary teacher in a school with a high percent of disaffected, low socio-economic students. I can very easily see why Pete joins Hooligans from this perspective ;) . But here, if you repeatedly appear with strange cuts and bruises, or worse, if you are seen in fight or hanging with a known gang your chance at promotion is zip and a lot of hard questions would be asked. Boards have to have a good reason for firing someone but I'm pretty sure the courts would uphold this decision if they were proved to belong to a hooligan group that regularly breaks the law. Whatever, they sure as heck would not let you coach a sports team unsupervised. We have automatic police checks on us every three years- its a requirement of renewing your registration. I assume its similar in Britain and the States. Are you a teacher too txtc? What level?

re Pete taking Matt to the game: I get that Steve gives Pete clear instructions... but what real chance is there of them being obeyed? Especially since Steve is a reluctant babysitter? I still think this aspect of the plot is a serious weakness.

Thanks for the lovely pic Shelbyshire :). Greetings back to you Alyon. :)

honeyelf

07-08-2006, 09:51 PM

Prim, Happy Birthday! :k :k :k Sorry I missed it.

[QUOTE=Prim
re Pete taking Matt to the game: I get that Steve gives Pete clear instructions... but what real chance is there of them being obeyed? Especially since Steve is a reluctant babysitter? I still think this aspect of the plot is a serious weakness.
[/QUOTE]

Hmmm...I always thought Steve was hoping his baby brother would stay out of trouble for once, if he was charged with playing tour guide. Maybe Steve hoped Pete would learn that he could have a good time at the pitch without busting his knuckles.

***
:cool: :cool: :cool: An interesting developement, esteemed Faculty! If you go look at Elijah's IMDB page Picasso at the Lapin Agile is listed at the top, with an expected release date of 2008!!! :cool: I hardly dare hope, but very cool if it does indeed come off.

honey!

Achila

07-09-2006, 11:17 AM

:cool: :cool: :cool: An interesting developement, esteemed Faculty! If you go look at Elijah's IMDB page Picasso at the Lapin Agile is listed at the top, with an expected release date of 2008!!! :cool: I hardly dare hope, but very cool if it does indeed come off.

That IS very interesting, Honey, especially since the script appeared to be dead in the water only a couple of years back when Elijah's name first became attached to it.

BunnieBugs

07-09-2006, 01:27 PM

I found a link for the film at Abandon Entertainment (http://www.abandonent.com/fra_film.html), the company that is developing the project, but there are no dates or cast listed. Guess we'll just have to wait and see...

honeyelf

07-09-2006, 05:43 PM

Thanks for the link to the website, Bunnie! I love the plot synopsis!
Based on the extremely successful play by actor/comic Steve Martin, Picasso at the Lapin Agile is a comedy set on a magical night in Paris, 1904, when by chance, two twenty-four year old geniuses, Pablo Picasso and Albert Einstein, meet in a bar and lock wits about art, girls and the future. When a pop icon from the future joins them, the space/time continuum erupts in a wild night that changes the future forever.

quicksilver

07-12-2006, 08:40 AM

Going back to GSH for a moment (interesting thoughts faculty members :) )

I can see a supposedly academic person slipping into this sort of double life, I guess. Its the school teacher I have trouble with: how can you have a job under which you are so scrutinised and still be involved in criminal fights/riots??? Are British school authorities blind morons? :confused:

I found an old ( 2004 ) article about something similar;
Teacher/Hooligan (http://hnn.us/roundup/entries/5059.html)

Of course the teacher mentioned didnt appear to have actually taken part in the violence himself! I 'm sure that the school would have taken some action if he had regularly turned up with cuts and bruises.

Wasn't Pete a history teacher too? Perhaps he only fought in the school holidays? ;)

Mechtild

07-12-2006, 03:40 PM

Just got back from my week and a half away and it will take me some time to read everything. I have scrolled quickly (frankly to look at the pictures :) ) but came to a screeching halt when I saw Pearl's post.

Elijah does a photoshoot between 11am and 12 noon. Hundreds of people queueing. Mostly women (duh), and most of them quietly smitten (you could positively see the shimmering aura of smitten-ness surrounding them) but quite a few blokes (non-nerdy ones too) and a handful of small children.

Note to self: next time I have a photoshoot with Elijah Wood, bring a small child or a baby, because he cannot resist them.
Oh, sob, laugh; I loved these notes. When I ever get to looking through my f-list, I'll see if you added anything to this there, Pearl. Thanks so much for posting your report! :k

~ Mechtild

daryl

07-12-2006, 08:40 PM

I finally saw Green Street Hooligans a few days ago and then searched the web for comments. This forum seems to be hosting the most intelligent and thorough discussion of this film, so I thought I might share a few impressions.

Brummie has made some apposite remarks here, but I guess from her nick and from the content of her observations that she is not and never has been an East Londoner or a West Ham fan. I write from this point of view, though I haven't lived in London for nearly 20 years.

Although I rather enjoyed this film (EW singing "Bubbles" with the "United" encore is absolutely priceless, even if the words aren't quite right!), I have to say that knowledge of the subject matter and of the East End culture is a positive handicap. Anyway, here are a few comments for starters:

At a couple of points we see Bovver riding his motorbike through a tunnel under the river on his way to meet Tommy Hatcher. Tommy confirms this by talking about Bovver's "front" showing his face "on this side of the water". The tunnel is presumably Blackwall Tunnel (or possibly Rotherhithe Tunnel). On the south side of the tunnel we see a sign "Millwall - London Borough of Tower Hamlets".

Now unless I am very much mistaken (or the geography of this part of London has changed radically since I lived there), the London Borough of Tower Hamlets is entirely on the north side of the river. The Millwall district of this Borough (where I once lived for a few months in summer 1977) is likewise north of the river, on the Isle of Dogs. Simply stated, one would not see the Millwall sign when emerging from the southern end of Blackwall Tunnel (or Rotherhithe Tunnel).

Millwall Football Club has been based south of the river for nearly a century, but the club ground is not in the Millwall district of East London. Incidentally, the West Ham United club ground is likewise not in West Ham.

As far as I can tell, the GSE watch the game at Upton Park from the Bobby Moore stand on the West side of the ground. This is a slight surprise, as the most fanatical home support is generally on the North Bank. However, this could be explained by the GSE's desire to avoid surveillance. The turnstile operators and match officials in the North Bank might be more likely to recognise known hooligans.

After the match some visiting supporters notice that Matt has broken away from the rest of the firm. He is heading for Bank station (in the centre of the city), so presumably he will go to an underground station on the District Line. Somehow, however, he ends up in a deserted area with an iron railway bridge and lots of industrial railway arches. This may be a great place for street fighting, but the trouble is that AFAIK there is no such place on any conceivable walking route from the Boleyn Ground to any underground station within reasonable walking distance, and with over 15,000 people spilling out onto the streets after a match, it is simply absurd to expect the route to an underground station to be deserted. There are no street signs and only one engineering firm sign, but this is clearly bogus. Wherever they filmed this, it was not in Upton Park, Plaistow or East Ham, I think.

Anyway, if the lads that Matt then runs into are from the Birmigham City firm (the Zulu Warriors), then they must be from its London section, as there is no trace of a West Midlands accent in their speech (more like West Indies) except, maybe, in the lad that lands a punch on Matt. More about accents in another post, perhaps.

Several commentators have pointed out that the opposition at the game was not Birmingham City anyway, but Gillingham. However, the Gills don't have a firm AFAIK.

Stevie, Shannon and Ben live somewhere near Bank Station? I don't think so. Their street looks much more like Kensington/Chelsea.

And so on, and on...

But here's an interesting little notion: why should the rivalry between the West Ham and Millwall firms be so fierce? What is the origin of the tension between the Mile End mob and the Deptford mob, and what is the connection with football?

daryl

Skater girl

07-13-2006, 05:19 AM

Welcome Daryl.

As a Yorkshire lass now based in Lancashire, the points you observed about locations in London were of no consequence to me as I watched GSH, and I never actually noticed the lack of an accent in the Birmingham fans (probably too taken up watching the one lad ;). However, when the GSE got to Macclesfield train station and managed to end up supposedly in the middle of Manchester 10 minutes later using the roads, it did hit me how this was stretching reality somewhat in my experience of the routes into the city. I didn't recognise the station the Manchester fans were waiting at at all, but it certainly didn't look like any of the main Manchester stations the London trains would end up at, and seemed to lack the general public I would have expected to see milling about any a main station on a Saturday.

I can, though, completely forgive Lexi these omissions/slip ups, since she was trying (fairly successfully) to make the film accessible to as wider audience worldwide as possible, not making a documentary on East London Hooligans, which couldn't really have had EJW as a main character, and which many of the people who have seen and enjoyed the film would not have watched.

Mariole

07-13-2006, 09:03 AM

Millwall Football Club has been based south of the river for nearly a century, but the club ground is not in the Millwall district of East London. Incidentally, the West Ham United club ground is likewise not in West Ham.
Hee! This certainly makes it clear for an American such as myself!

Thanks for your thoughtful post, Daryl. I was not equipped to comment on things like the actual areas of London of the variation in accent, so I focused on the character portrayals and plot. I think Lexi is not unique in finding "interesting" places in which to photograph her movie, if the reality is deemed less interesting for the viewer, but I can see how it might cause you to shake your head. I got the same feeling when I watched "Thelma & Louise" and knew that the route they took through Arches Natl. Park was a dead end. It made me chuckle, but mostly I was saying to myself, "Hey, they're in Arches! I've been there!" :)

I enjoyed your comment about EW singing "Bubbles". What did you think of the movie overall?

Thanks for writing! Welcome to the Faculty!

honeyelf

07-13-2006, 01:54 PM

Welcome, Daryl!

I can sympathize with you on the locations in GSH to an extent. Here in the states we have a detective show on TV that is set in San Francisco. And for the first season they really did shoot in San Francisco, but then they moved the shooting down to Los Angeles, about 500 miles south! That's bad enough, but in the context of the show they'll mention place names, and have the SFPD investigating crimes in communities that I know aren't part of the SFPD jurisdiction. It drives me mad when I think of it, but somehow I manage to enjoy the show anyhow for its characterizations and plots. Were you able to enjoy GSH at all? What did you think of EJW and CH's performances?

Oops! Also mean to say that I, and ignorant American who hasn't had the privilege to visit London yet, found the settings of the film very appealing, and I suspect that Lexi felt the same when she selected them. I suppose anyone who's been to a place can see the holes in geograpical logic in any film, but to those who don't know the city like the back of their hand, it's no great concern.

honey~

***
ETAA: I'm just putting a link to the Everything Is Illuminated (http://www.khazaddum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3187&page=1&pp=25 ) thread here for Prim.

daryl

07-14-2006, 07:40 AM

As a Yorkshire lass now based in Lancashire, the points you observed about locations in London were of no consequence to me as I watched GSH, and I never actually noticed the lack of an accent in the Birmingham fans (probably too taken up watching the one lad ;). However, when the GSE got to Macclesfield train station and managed to end up supposedly in the middle of Manchester 10 minutes later using the roads, it did hit me how this was stretching reality somewhat in my experience of the routes into the city. I didn't recognise the station the Manchester fans were waiting at at all, but it certainly didn't look like any of the main Manchester stations the London trains would end up at, and seemed to lack the general public I would have expected to see milling about any a main station on a Saturday.
Very well spotted! I had somehow been fooled into thinking that this was Manchester Piccadilly station (at the top of the ramp), but now I can see that it clearly isn't. However, I would bet the price of a round for the GSE Old Guard that this is in fact Fenchurch Street Station in the City of London. The Google Earth reference for the point where Dave telephones the lads on the train is 51° 30' 41.39" N, 0° 04' 46.05 W. Check this out and you will see the wooden station awning and even the red pillar box that is visible to the left of shot during that phone call.

Another nice little detail: the ringtone for Pete's cellphone is "Bubbles"! :)

After the fight outside the station the "famous" GSE escape down some steps. Those steps are really there at Fenchurch Street, IIRC, but a bogus UMIST sign (part of Manchester University) has been put up in the film.

Seeing ex-superhooligan Cass Pennant in a policeman's uniform is about as surreal as it gets :) The fact that he looks every inch the part is likewise a bit disturbing.

You could probably comment on the authenticity of the Manchester accents heard before the fight starts, but they sound OK to me (I think those guys are Granada TV actors).

I can, though, completely forgive Lexi these omissions/slip ups, since she was trying (fairly successfully) to make the film accessible to as wider audience worldwide as possible, not making a documentary on East London Hooligans, which couldn't really have had EJW as a main character, and which many of the people who have seen and enjoyed the film would not have watched.
Don't get me wrong - I really liked this film. I can't really see how any West Ham fan wouldn't.

However, I did preface my earlier post by remarking that knowledge of the East End and its culture can be a handicap to enjoying this film, and I gave the example of putting Millwall south of the river (which genuinely confused me for a moment when I first saw the film). You obviously had a similar experience for Manchester. There is, indeed, no way to get from Macclesfield to any Manchester main line station so quickly by road.

daryl

Alyon

07-15-2006, 01:46 AM

Hi Everybody,

I'ts late at night and I'm just swinging by coz I needed a dose of Elijah and friends. I don't have much to say--but welcome Daryl. And, yeah, movies are movies and the director cares more for the art of the shot and the imagination of it than the specifics of things. But I know how it is if you live in a place, or are very familiar with it--you can get distracted looking at the scenery and plotting out what makes sense and what view should be out of a particular window, etc. Kept me nit-picking at Frasier and his Seattle haunts for awhile. I guess it's harder when the place is kind of a character itself within the movie/tvshow/play/book/whatever, and it isn't really matching up to it's name.

Which leads me off topic, but I always wonder when I see a movie set somewhere far away, how much the vision of the place is real in a broad sense, and I can say I know a little more about the place, and how much it is a narrow vision of some narrow bit of the culture. Or distorted perspective. Sort of the same way in reading any history book, as well. Or hearing the news!!! EVen when nothing is distorted, there is always a different way to see a story. What all else is in between the telling?
Okay. late at night rambling...

Night all!!!

daryl

07-15-2006, 06:20 AM

First of all, many thanks for all of the friendly messages of welcome (Alyon, honeyelf, Mariole, Skater girl).

You asked what I thought of the EW and CH performances in GSH. Just a few words on EW to begin with:

To the extent that acting is merely "behaving as someone else", EW doesn't even need to act in this film. His role is specifically for a "fish out of water" and in the context of an English football firm that is exactly what EW already is.

One useful analogy is to see Matt as an immigrant in the fullest sense of the expression, an Auschlander, who must rely on the goodwill of others to survive, but who slowly integrates and acquires self-confidence, peer acceptance and a unique role. In that role he retains his personality (he is still "the Yank"), but he acquires new facets to that personality and discovers things about his own character and resources. He is also accepted by the other members of the firm, sometimes willingly and otherwise with a more or less grudging respect and tolerance for the "outsider".

Another way to understand Matt's role is in terms of a child-parent relationship with Pete. Thus, the point comes where the protégé goes against the advice and instructions of the mentor. As far as I can tell, this point is "United away", where (despite the feared absence of at least four GSE members) Pete tells Matt to stay behind, but Matt catches the train anyway ("I thought it was just the three of you"). Even as the GSE pile off the train at Macclesfield station, Matt is still in learning mode, however. The GSE are not thereby "escaping" from an impending confrontation ("What, are you insane? We just got away!"). As Pete insists "if we don't show up now, they'll claim a result". And Matt begins to understand that this is all about "reputation", and not losing face. EW conveys this process brilliantly IMO.

When the realisation comes, the Harvard intellectual resurfaces with "an idea" and surprising assertiveness. There is a remarkable (if predictable and inevitable) clash outside Macclesfield station ("f*#k you Bovver"). Matt is also involved in carrying out the idea brilliantly the Yank in the lorry might arouse suspicion, but not as part of a film crew "shooting for the new Hugh Grant film". The GSE thereby keep the element of surprise and achieve a "result" that boosts their reputation far and wide. They have "stuffed United" against all the odds, largely because their new Yank oddball can keep his head and think clearly and creatively under pressure. The protégé has proved himself and the immigrant has found an important role.

It is easy to see the end of the film as a decision to renounce violence. Matt is tempted to take his violent revenge on Van Holden, but decides against this. However, the element of reputation is missing from this confrontation. Landing a punch on Van Holden while he is down would certainly not enhance Matt's standing in the eyes of the world. In a way, then, both Pete and Matt's father are sending the same message: "your reputation is all you have". That leaves us with the question: would Matt use violence again if his reputation was at stake?

Just in passing, I hope it is clear to everyone that there are normal, if unwritten, rules for the extent of violence that is acceptable in the English hooligan context (you don't go "over the top"). We see this again and again, but we also see that Tommy Hatcher is a "loose cannon" who cannot always respect the rules. Like loose cannons in the criminal underground proper, I believe that such people eventually tend to lose the support of their own communities and come to be perceived as liabilities.

daryl

Mariole

07-16-2006, 09:30 AM

Wow, Daryl, thanks for your thoughtful post, once again. :)

EW doesn't even need to act in this film
Hee, he does make it look easy, doesn't he? I really enjoyed your perspective on his character, both as a fish out of water and as the college boy. You elevated his brainwave with the truck to the logical importance it needed in the film, which I missed on my first go-round. So thank you very much for bringing in that reminder.

It's also useful for me to hear this:

there are normal, if unwritten, rules for the extent of violence that is acceptable in the English hooligan context (you don't go "over the top").
This is I think one of the hardest things for a foreigner to grasp. I don't know the culture, so I don't know what unwritten rules hold in England (I know what the unwritten rules are here, but that's not helpful). I think that was one of the risks of this movie, that there were certain assumptions made that would be meaningful to UK viewers, but other liberties taking (such as with the culture and geography) that would be irritating to UK viewers. Perhaps that's why there is a mixed reaction to this film. Some people "get" certain parts, whereas others get hung up on various things.

All this discussion, as always, helps me appreciate more about the movie, so I thank everyone for participating. There was a lot to like here, despite those who had problems with certain aspects of it, such as myself.

Alyon, your post was also fun. I liked this:

there is always a different way to see a story
This is one of the lessons I learned in divorce class. Actually, I flunked the first time, so went through it twice (dealing with divorce, was the intent). In the second class, I met some of the husbands and wives of people I'd met in the first class. Whoa. That was an eye-opener! :p

tgshaw

07-16-2006, 06:22 PM

Amazon wish-list, here I come! (Via TG's of course! :k )

--from June 21. How's that for going back a long ways to respond to a post? :p

Amazon, indeed, did not wait for the July 25 "pre-booking" date to have the new LotR DVDs available for pre-order (with the Costa Bote documentaries, remember? ;) ). Release date for all three is August 29. So far the only one Amazon has a cover image for is TTT, but they're all there (at $8.99 less for each set than the widely advertised price). Links for pre-ordering and for more information are on the What's New (http://www.frodolivesin.us/new/) page. On that same page, just below the Amazon links, are links to the long-overdue review of GSH and some screencaps from "Just think of someone you hate." And as promised on that page, here's a link to some Paint-Shopped pics of a thoughtful Matt from later in the movie: http://www.frodolivesin.us/Pics/id48.htm

And my computer isn't happy with the 101 F day, even with a fan blowing on it, so I think that's it for now. :)

saile

07-17-2006, 09:15 AM

-Amazon, indeed, did not wait for the July 25 "pre-booking" date to have the new LotR DVDs available for pre-order (with the Costa Bote documentaries, remember? ;) ). Release date for all three is August 29. So far the only one Amazon has a cover image for is TTT, but they're all there (at $8.99 less for each set than the widely advertised price). Links for pre-ordering and for more information are on the What's New (http://www.frodolivesin.us/new/) page.Thanks Tg. Done.:D:D
And now off to check out your other updates. Thanks.:k:k
saile

Brummie

07-17-2006, 10:41 AM

Thanks for the links tg. As usual your screen caps and perceptive eye have identified details which had completely passed me by. The difference between the two side of his face is uncanny. The one side becomes more angry while the other side becomes more scared.
The Paint-Shopped pics are I think some of the best you have ever done. I particularly like numbers 3,7 and 8, and nos. 2 and 10 I can practically see hanging on some art gallery wall.

Welcome Daryl and thanks for your insights re GS/H.

BLOSSOM

07-17-2006, 04:57 PM

According to Amazon.co.uk, those new LOTR Special Edition DVDs - the ones that Tg mentioned, with the nice, shiny, long-awaited, never-before-seen behind-the-scenes footage - are released here on September 25th. (Priced at £14.99.) Which means us Brits will have to wait almost a month longer than those of you who live in the US!!! :(

Of course, those of you who are able to buy the DVDs in August, could drop a few spoilers here and there about those Costa Botes documentaries while we are waiting! :D I love spoilers.:)

Welcome Daryl.

Mechtild

07-17-2006, 09:24 PM

Just thought I'd note that whatever people in here think about GSH (I know it runs the gamut), I checked for the DVD at the local video store, now that I'm back in town, and the clerk said it was out again. So I've put it on reserve.

They only have one copy, he said, but it's rented out all the time. (They got it before I left two weeks ago.)

"It was great," the clerk added in an unsolicited comment while someone else waited on me.

Hunh! Just like another young male clerk I spoke to before I went away. They are young guys, but they watch a lot of films. I thought their [enthusiastic] responses hinted that the fimlmakers/producers might have got some box office out of it, with the right sort of release: "Rock'em, sock'em entertainment!"

P.S. I am looking for good face images from the London Comic con (on July 1). I saw some gems on the LJ of Melyanna, and a much lesser assortment on A&F and the news sites. I want to do a project that requires EW's face from just the right angle, since he looks so like an Elizabethan gentleman in those shots. Anyone know of an LJ or another site that's got a lot of good shots? I'm in the market. I'd be grateful for any leads. Thanks! :)

~ Mechtild

shireling

07-18-2006, 09:31 AM

Anyone know of an LJ or another site that's got a lot of good shots? I'm in the market. I'd be grateful for any leads. Thanks!

Mechtild ~ Patsie and Salwood had loads of amazing pics from that event - Salwood is a professional photographer who has just acquired a brilliant new camera and her pics are wonderful quality. I hope you find at least one with the angle you need. I know I can't put actual links here but you'll find their names on the friends list of my LJ profile page (Not Alone) :)

Blossom ~ many thanks for the info about the LOTR dvds - I was only looking on Amazon last night and they didn't appear to be mentioned - I was beginning to wonder if we'd even be getting them here :eek: I think I can cope with the extra month's wait - I'm just very relieved that these documentaries are actually being released - at one time there seemed to be some doubt that they ever would be. The anticipation is so delicious that I almost welcome the extra wait - though it will be very nice to actually have them :D And yes - spoilers are fine with me :)

Well, since my last post, I've had the pleasure of meeting a certain bearded young man in a grey t-shirt - again - and very nice he was too!! As you probably know - he did a half-hour q&a session (never known half an hour pass so quickly!!), and someone asked him which film - apart from LOTR - did he find the most challenging. He mentioned 'The Ice Storm' because he was called on to do some entirely different things, compared to previous films (yes, I think you could call the Nixon mask scene quite different :D ) - but interestingly he also mentioned Day Zero as being quite challenging for the same reasons. He seemed really enthusiastic about this film - I'm definitely looking forward to this one :)

Mechtild

07-18-2006, 09:54 AM

Ooooh, thanks, Shireling! :k

~ Mechtild

sneaking

07-18-2006, 01:44 PM

Bobby poster (http://www.comingsoon.net/cgi-bin/imageFolio.cgi?action=view&link=Drama/Bobby&image=bobbyonesheet.jpg&img=&tt=)

Presumably the previous one was just a fan made one. The cast list is alphabetical as expected. They are clearly selling it on the (odd) collection of name actors.

BunnieBugs

07-18-2006, 02:54 PM

Thanks, Sneaking! Nice poster. I don't think that first one was fan-made, though, as it was being used on the Arclight Theatre (http://www.arclightfilms.com/newsletters/afm/arclight%5fonline.htm) website to represent the film. It was probably just a "working" poster, much like the one that turned up for Hooligans before filming even began.

Speaking of Hooligans, I've been enjoying Daryl's comments on the film. Nice to have a fresh point of view here! :)

Achila

07-19-2006, 02:53 PM

An article about the company that did the CG for Happy Feet:

http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/technology/maney/2006-07-18-animal-logic_x.htm?csp=34

But grrr...it cites Robin Williams and Nicole Kidman as the stars of the film :mad:

Eandme

07-19-2006, 03:21 PM

Is it just me, or is the layout of the page here different today? I can't navigate between pages in the thread anymore. *miffed* :confused:

But that's not what I came out of Lazy Lurkdom to say... I was browsing through vids on Youtube and found this little gem called "Elijah on Super News". I was laughing my head off. I can't quite explain why, it's just something about the way Elijah looks toward the end after the show when the camera isn't turned off and you see him totally absorbed in that rings-thing. Hilarious.
And also, I found the interview with him from the making of the Faculty... :lol: his voice! sorry. :rolleyes: I don't remember him sounding like that in the actual movie. Okay I'm done poking my finger at Elijah...having a wee bit of fun on his expense... It's all in good humour though! ;)

ceefour

07-20-2006, 09:05 PM

Ahoy, Faculty Mateys! (Pelagia, Achila and I are ready to set sail with Captain Jack and Will Turner on Saturday.)

The LOTR-Limited Editions are down to $16.98 on Amazon.

C4

honeyelf

07-21-2006, 01:25 AM

Don't know if you've all seen this website as it's relatively new: notstarring.com (http://www.notstarring.com/) So far it only has one entry for Elijah, as Jack of Beanstalk fame in a Rob Reiner film adaptation of Into the Woods. But we scholars of Mr. Wood's work - and almost work - can contribute more than that. Here are a few we can research and submit.

Pleasantville - wanted the role that Tobey Maguire played
Moulin Rouge - wanted the part of Christian but was too young
Wanted to star in an adaptation of "Maniac McGee" as a youngster
Star Wars, Episode II - auditioned for the role of Anakin Skywalker
Possibly considered for Peter Pan, but aged out of the part
Cast in Mort the Dead Teenager, but the project failed.
Originally cast as the lead in Thumbsucker, but aged out of the part

And then of course there are the other folks who were considered for LoTR:

Kylie Minogue auditioned for Galadriel
Dom Monaghan auditioned for Frodo
Michael J. Fox considered for Frodo

And then there are other films:

Jason Schwartzman was originally cast as Alex in Everything is Illuminated

I know I'm forgetting even more.

To begin with I'm gonna grab "Thumbsucker" and dig up some source material on that one. Feel free to grab one, and dig around!

This is gonna be fun! :D

honey!

ETA: Thumsucker research done, and entry submitted!

ETAA: Here's an interesting tid-bit about Peter Pan that I found at A&F:
:: Squinty sent me some interesting info from "Sky" magazine (May 2002):
Most people in Hollywood thought film-makers would stay away from Peter Pan after Steven Spielberg's HOOK flopped. But now there's talk of another live action version that will be more faithful to JM Barrie's original story. And I hear that ELIJAH WOOD could end up in the starring role. No word on likely candidates for Tinkerbell yet though.

Hmm. A source for the rumor. Anybody know what "Sky" magazine is? I searched on the web, and only came up with an astronomy mag. :confused: :lol:

shireling

07-21-2006, 06:20 AM

Very interesting, HoneyElf!! I can add a couple:

Really wanted main role in Rushmore
Wanted main role in 'The Secret Garden' - cried when he didn't get it (but he was only a kid!!)

Also, Jake Gyllenhall auditioned for Frodo.

Sorry I can't give the source for these - they are somewhere in the deepest, darkest depths of my still-to-be-sorted stuff :)

Mariole

07-21-2006, 09:47 AM

Hee! What a great discussion. You know you're in geek territory now!

:k the Faculty

Shelbyshire

07-21-2006, 12:16 PM

This is gonna be fun! :D

honey!*puts on pj's, no slippers tonight...too hot, pulls up a comfy chair, grabs a cold, cold summer beverage, and logs into KD...signs of a happy,contented semi-lurker*

Alas, since research and/or writing is not one of my strong academic skills, I'll watch in awe as The Faculty shows this website how things are done.

:cool: I have no doubt that Elijah's page will fill up...quickly!! :cool:

Prim

07-21-2006, 06:24 PM

But here's an interesting little notion: why should the rivalry between the West Ham and Millwall firms be so fierce?

Hi Daryl. My impression from the film was that it was after the death of the young boy? Could be wrong though- only watched it once. Will do again but its quite popular at the local VDO store (I live in a small town in the north of NZ and we clearly still have fond memories of EW since his movies rent out very well.) Perhaps its because they too have the rep of being an excellent firm and GSH want to knock them off the top spot? It seems as far as I can tell to have NOTHING at all to do with the actual football and everything to do with the Firms rep but, again, as an outsider its hard to tell.

I don't stress too much about location tho I accept it can be distracting, and particularly in a movie which is centred on a real area- I found the river Anduin annoying in the L o T Rings movies but oh well, there you go. To a NZer these locations were highly recognisable. To the rest of the world: no problems.

I liked the "Hugh Grant movie" scene too. It made me laugh- a nice decoy and also a nod at a genre of films the rest of the planet is starting to associate with London.

That leaves us with the question: would Matt use violence again if his reputation was at stake?

I agree with this point. This is one reason I found the end of the film unsatisfying- it was ambiguous to me. Was this intentional? What has Matt truly learnt? Maybe this was part of why the film got mixed press.

thanks for the link Honey. I will go check it out now. :)

txtac

07-22-2006, 02:40 PM

Jonathen Taylor Thomas was asked to audition/play the role of Frodo, BUT HE TURNED IT DOWN! He didn't want to be type cast in "short person" roles. Besides, he thought that the film Lord of the Rings would be a flop!

In Prim's last post:
That leaves us with the question: would Matt use violence again if his reputation was at stake? Reputation, or "health and safety?" Matt is still a "guy" and he found the strength/ability to stand up for himself (read in part- manhood). If his back was to the wall again, yes, I believe that he would use violence again. He is smart enough to know when to use it and when to not use it. Violence would not be his first choice of action, but it is certainly there now in his "problem solving toolbox."

... This is one reason I found the end of the film unsatisfying- it was ambiguous to me. Was this intentional? What has Matt truly learnt? Maybe this was part of why the film got mixed press.
The ending probably should have played stronger- as to leave no doubt, but I do not think that Lexi wanted Matt to leave a lasting impression that he had turned into a thug either. If Matt had pounded his old roomate into the ground out of spite/revenge for what his roomate had done to him, that would have left the message that Matt had become a hooligan and the anti- violence message of the movie would be non-existant. The anti-violence message was more important to both Dougie and Lexi, so it had to be worked in somewhere and made to be believable. The ending was soft. The anti-violence message didn't come through as strongly as it should have, thus the ambiguity. Matt has learned his lesson about using violence as a means-to- and-end. In this case, he chose not to pound his roomate into feathers, but to blackmail the roomate into clearing Matt's name and reputation at Harvard.

I am still pushing for Hooligans 2. It would clear up some loose ends in Green Street and let us see Elijah in another action role. What do you think? Fists and feet, or guns and knives? New York, or L.A. ?

tgshaw

07-23-2006, 08:07 AM

Jonathen Taylor Thomas was asked to audition/play the role of Frodo, BUT HE TURNED IT DOWN! He didn't want to be type cast in "short person" roles. Besides, he thought that the film Lord of the Rings would be a flop!
That surprises me, since until he saw Mikey Carver PJ was set on casting an unknown Brit in the role. :confused: Are we sure this is on the level, or did JTT want to make it seem that he hadn't been overlooked (no pun intended - really :p )?

In Prim's last post:
Reputation, or "health and safety?" Matt is still a "guy" and he found the strength/ability to stand up for himself (read in part- manhood). If his back was to the wall again, yes, I believe that he would use violence again. He is smart enough to know when to use it and when to not use it. Violence would not be his first choice of action, but it is certainly there now in his "problem solving toolbox."
Doesn't make for a satisfying "all or nothing" ending :rolleyes: , but this sounds right. (Did anyone else have unwanted flashbacks to the opening of Ash Wednesday during that scene? "Oh, no, he's going into the men's room!" :eek: :haha: )

I'm hoping someone who's familiar with the English football schedule can help me out on the timeframe. How long was Matt in London, anyway? He left Harvard two months short of graduation, and IIRC spring graduation was specifically mentioned so he wasn't graduating mid-year. This would put his arrival in London at approximately mid-March, more or less, assuming he went straight there from Harvard (which he seems to have done). Then, at the end of the movie, after the roommate goes into the men's room, one of his buddies says something about "his father's re-election" as if it's occurred. That would mean the scene can't take place before November (a special election might take place some other time, say if an office-holder dies or resigns, but a re-election would have to be on the first Tuesday of November [unless that falls on November 1 or the groundhog sees his shadow]). Does that fit with the timing of the "draw" that puts West Ham against Millwall? I'm guessing that would have been toward the end of the season, as the fan reaction seemed to be similar to going into the playoffs, or watching the matchups being announced for the NCAA basketball tournament.

from Daryl:
Just in passing, I hope it is clear to everyone that there are normal, if unwritten, rules for the extent of violence that is acceptable in the English hooligan context (you don't go "over the top"). We see this again and again, but we also see that Tommy Hatcher is a "loose cannon" who cannot always respect the rules. Like loose cannons in the criminal underground proper, I believe that such people eventually tend to lose the support of their own communities and come to be perceived as liabilities.
For me, at least, that horrifying scene in the restaurant - when Tommy Hatcher slams the uninvolved diner's head into the table - made the point loud and clear that TH was a loose cannon whose violence went beyond anything acceptable. Also left no doubt that his violence was never very far beneath the surface.

And Bovver was insane, right? :(

Living in Omaha, I don't get too many chances to compare local scenery to its use on film (and I didn't even see About Schmidt), but I can completely sympathize with any problems encountered when dealing with the way a movie portrays geography you know like the back of your hand -- How did Gandalf get from Hobbiton to Minas Tirith and back so quickly, anyway? :confused: :confused: :haha:

Skater girl

07-24-2006, 09:23 AM

And Bovver was insane, right? :(

I didn't see Bovver as insane, rather as jealous and desperate. In fact I felt quite sorry for him and if I were to make a stab at providing a background for his character, I would have said he came from a broken home, where he had probably been beaten by his own parents from an early age and hadn't been encouraged to get an education. I felt that he had grown up with little self-esteem, and gained any self-confidence he had from his position in the GSE. He wasn't shown, as far as I remember, as having a good job like teacher or pilot. With Matt's arrival (journalist links aside) and subsequent friendship with Pete, Bovver's position in the group was threatened, and not having been taught from an early age how to deal with his feelings, he did the only thing he knew would hurt Pete, without thinking of the consequences.

I thought that Bovver's regret when he realised what he had set off was a really good anti-violence message in the film. Violence, from the lashing out and temper tantrums of young children right up to international terrorism, is to my mind often the result of frustration and desparation in people who are not emotionally intelligent enough to deal with their feelings in a more suitable way. Obviously there are many cases where it is not nearly so simple as that, but I did think that Lexi was trying to show the difference between how Matt and Bovver addressed their respective problems.

Honeyelf - I would imagine Sky Magazine refers to the publication sent out to subscribers by Sky television, the satellite TV suppliers in the UK.

Mariole

07-24-2006, 10:34 AM

I think that Lexi was trying to show the difference between how Matt and Bovver addressed their respective problems.
Wow. Excellent observation, SG!

sneaking

07-24-2006, 06:31 PM

I have to confess that I have deleted Black and White from my recorded list. I didn't get anymore than 20 minutes in (and that was a bit of a struggle). So I have faced facts that I'm just never going to watch it. Still, if having a disappointing experience watching other TOL movies, it's something to measure it against to feel good in a Polyanna type of way. I think it's even worse than a certain animated movie that is not commonly referred to in these parts. Experimentation and doing something different is good, however the results can be awful.

tgshaw

07-24-2006, 09:25 PM

I didn't see Bovver as insane, rather as jealous and desperate. In fact I felt quite sorry for him...
Yes, that's why I used a :( instead of a :eek: or :rolleyes: after my question. As someone in what will continue to be lifelong treatment for two interconnected mental illnesses, I don't necessarily think of insanity in a pejorative sense, any more than cancer or heart failure, but it's still very sad. Whatever the cause was (and it's usually a combination of life experience and a physical propensity - or everyone who grew up in the same circumstances would turn out the same way), I do think Bovver had gotten to the point of being out-of-touch with the reality of what he was doing. That would be my basic definition of insanity (as opposed to "a little bit unwell" which I get a nice smile from every time I read it :k ).

He wasn't shown, as far as I remember, as having a good job like teacher or pilot.
IIRC, when everyone was waiting to hear the match-ups, we saw him in a row of people in a control booth wearing headphones. Made me wonder if the "Media" jacket he was wearing earlier in the movie was actually on the level - but I missed seeing how he came by that.

sneaking

07-25-2006, 04:00 AM

To me it looked like Bovver worked in a Call Centre or something like that. I don't think it was a media job.

Achila

07-27-2006, 10:54 AM

"Bobby" is being shown at the Venice Film Festival! :D

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/5220800.stm

Mechtild

07-27-2006, 11:10 AM

Goody, goody; news! Thanks, Achila.

(I was making do on less acting-related stuff like those "awwwww..." photos of EW seeing Pamela Racine off at the LA airport 7/25.)

~ Mechtild

honeyelf

07-27-2006, 12:18 PM

(I was making do on less acting-related stuff like those "awwwww..." photos of EW seeing Pamela Racine off at the LA airport 7/25.)

I still haven't seen those pictures yet! Any chance someone could post them in the 'Hugs' thread? Pretty Please? :k

h~

Mechtild

07-27-2006, 12:44 PM

O.K., Honey. They really are loaded with gushy charm. I will download my copies of them. Nolyana posted a link to a website called "Just Jared" that had the pics. I'll send you a link in a PM in the meantime, in case the website is not approved. It didn't look highly-rated from my cursory glance.

~ Mechtild

sneaking

07-27-2006, 02:23 PM

Happy Feet trailer (http://movies.aol.com/movie-trailer-clip/happy-feet-hugh-jackman) that I think is new (I've certainly not seen it before). Featuring actual speech from Mumble and some plot. It doesn't play very well on my computer but it doesn't seem quite as much fun as the teaser trailers

Warning: Do not read the URL of the link for fear of minor rage

tgshaw

07-27-2006, 03:42 PM

Warning: Do not read the URL of the link for fear of minor rage
I can't watch the trailer at work - but I can hover my mouse over the link to read the URL ;) :p :rolleyes: . I'd heard there was supposed to be a new Happy Feet trailer showing with The Ant Bully, which opens tomorrow. Do you think this might be it?

Achila - Thanks for the great news about Venice. It'll be interesting to hear any reviews about Bobby that come from it.

sneaking

07-27-2006, 06:39 PM

And a poster I've not seen before, I'd guess the final poster. :cool:

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f153/sneakingraptor/happyfeetposter.jpg

I love the tag line. And also the little bits of snow there are on Mumble's feet if you look closely.

Edit: Apologies if I'm just being unobservant/having a bad memory and these are all old. On a slight penguin kick today.

ceefour

07-27-2006, 08:15 PM

Young Master and Miss ceefour really liked this trailer. (And their mother didn't mind it either. ;) )

Off to ELF tomorrow!

C4

Achila

07-27-2006, 08:21 PM

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v236/aquila0212/be40.jpg

Fast Toadfoot

07-28-2006, 09:47 AM

Happy 25 1/2 birthday Elijah, WOO-HOO!!!!!!

That's right folks, Lij's birthday was six months ago today! Maybe some people can post some picspam and stuff!!! I always have been a fan of half-birthdays of my friends and stuff, and thought this was a splendid occassion to post for the first time in a while, (too long!)

:lol:

:haha:

Have a great day all!

Mechtild

07-28-2006, 10:01 AM

Achila, thanks for posting that Bobby still. But, oh, la, la: "still" is right. Does that photograph look staged. And those sideburns are very unconvincing. Maybe the make-up-and-hair people who did that sparse, straggly hair for his Frodo-feet did his sideburns, too.

I hope the film looks better on the screen. :z:

~ Mechtild

honeyelf

07-28-2006, 11:14 AM

http://static.flickr.com/76/200360869_ba0d509dd5_o.jpg

Mech said: And those sideburns are very unconvincing. Maybe the make-up-and-hair people who did that sparse, straggly hair for his Frodo-feet did his sideburns, too.

As I recall he was growing his own whilst filming Bobby. Perhaps they just filled in with a bit of eyebrow pencil?

Unless you're suggesting that the hobbit foot hair was his own as well? ;)

honey!

Mechtild

07-28-2006, 11:40 AM

They should have used more than pencil, then, and given him decent sideburn toupees! :k

~ M

whiteling

07-28-2006, 04:46 PM

They should have used more than pencil, then, and given him decent sideburn toupees! :k

Elijah should visit this (http://extremewigs.com/mbindex.htm) website. What a wide range of sideburns... :D

Yes, I agree on the not too convincing look of his sideburns. OTOH, I am glad, that he doesn't look like Ambrose E. Burnside (really! :p), Major General and a Union Military leader from the American Civil War (apologies to the Major for robbing him his manly facial clothing) ---

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0903/whiteling/Frodomanips/Elijah_with_manly_sideburns.jpg

:haha:

honeyelf

07-28-2006, 05:38 PM

Leave it to you, Whiteling! :lol: Ewwww! Yech! ptui! I feel a hairball coming up just looking at those whiskers!

CeeFour and Achila, have fun at ELF!

honey~

Mechtild

07-28-2006, 05:52 PM

Oh, Whiteling! :lol:

~ Mechtild

Shelbyshire

07-29-2006, 07:59 AM

Found another "Bobby" pic. This is from the LJ of primula_baggins. I hope she doesn't mind me posting it here. She has 15 or so other pics from the movie that feature other actors. They are very interesting. Definitely gives you more of a feel for the film. Lindsay is in one or two others. No more EJW though. Enjoy...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v638/Shelbyshire/Elijah%20Wood/LindayandElijahincrowd.jpg

Mechtild

07-29-2006, 08:59 AM

Thanks so much, Shelbyshire. It's good to see a cap from an actual scene. The hairdo's of the extras are very good. Someone was doing their research for them.

~ Mechtild

Mariole

07-31-2006, 09:22 AM

Oh, Whiteling! :eek: :D

Thanks for all the Bobby pictures, everyone!

ceefour

07-31-2006, 05:01 PM

If any Midwest U.S. Faculty members are interested, ELF 2007 is scheduled for the Hyatt Regency in Schaumburg, Illinois, a suburb of Chicago, July 27-29. Start saving!

C4

honeyelf

07-31-2006, 08:34 PM

CeeFour, you're back! Did you have fun? :)

ceefour

08-01-2006, 11:54 AM

Travelling with Achila and Pelagia is always fun and I had the pleasure of meeting Bunniebugs. The quality of the convention content was erratic, however.

Daniel Reeve (artist and calligrapher for the movies) was present and would hand write, while you watched, quotes from book or movie for only $10. ($10!!!) My chosen quote A day may come at last when I
Shall take the hidden paths that run
West of the Moon, East of the Sun.This was written in the Red Book prop Daniel Reeve had made for the film which we were able to page through. :cool:

A weblink EW appearance was tentatively scheduled, but never materialised. Oh well...

C4

Alyon

08-01-2006, 04:42 PM

Lots of cool stuff lately. Thanks everyone for picture posting and I enjoyed the lists of what Elijah wanted to star in, but didn't-- and projects conceived, but never started.

Ceefour--sorry ELF quality was erratic. Big question: How was the food??? ;)

I know, I know, it's not the important aspect of content--but food was a major complaint for me at ORC, since we paid so much for the special last night dress-up cocktail party event, and what we got was not very satisfying.
And really too bad the EW weblink thing didn't work out.... :(
darn...
Ainon (who hasn't been in here for ages!!) sent me a link featuring Stephen Colbert on Conan which some of you might enjoy. About half way through SC reveals his great LOtRs love--speaks a little Quenya, and explains the difference between a demon and a balrog. :cool:

Stephen Colbert on Conan (http://throwawayyourtv.com/2006/07/conan-obrian-interview-with-stephen.html)

Enjoy!!

Eandme

08-02-2006, 07:18 AM

Hey everyone!
I loved the Frodo picspam!!!
I am a member of Elijah_Wood_at_the_Movies, a yahoo group run by Esme, who recently posted an article about Happy Feet. Two things caught my attention:

George Miller's new film is shaping as one of Australia's biggest ever movie productions, using more technological power than the Pentagon () Happy Feet boasts a strong cast of Hollywood heavyweights, including Robin Williams, Elijah Wood, Brittany Murphy, and Australians Nicole Kidman and Hugh Jackman.

Hollywood heavyweights,huh?! Not bad... ;)
and this:

Miller said pop star Prince also was penning a song for the film.
"Prince saw the film the other day and was very excited to write
something for us," he said.
I think Elijah will be very happy if that actually happens.
Just wanted to share.

ceefour

08-02-2006, 01:32 PM

Some more Bobby news--

http://www.soundtrack.net/news/article/?id=800

C4

P.S. Alyon, the food in the hotel restaurant was quite good. I had a basic ticket and therefore didn't attend any extra events, but did hear through the grapevine that at the first night's reception the dessert buffet was a tad skimpy. And the chocolate sauce served for the ice cream was a bottle of Hershey's syrup. :rolleyes: They ain't got no couth! :lol:

Pelagia

08-03-2006, 08:22 PM

I second ceefours comments about the erratic quality of ELF. She neglected to mention that Achila and I were seated in the second row, right by the center aisle. So if Himself HAD been there, we would have been less than 10 feet away. :eek: (All weekend, ceefour kept tormenting us by holding her thumb and forefinger about 2 inches apart and whispering, THIS close!)

The other big disappointment (apart from Elijahs not being there) was the non-appearance of Doug Adams, author of the extensive notes to the complete soundtrack of FOTR (as well as the upcoming ones for the other two films). He was held up somewhere by bad weather.

ceefour also didnt tell you about our struggles, on Friday evening, to dredge up favorite LOTR quotes from our flagging memories, for Daniel Reeve to write up for us in calligraphy We got so silly that I even suggested Crablegs from Dublin! at one point. (And this was without benefit of alcohol.)

It was nice to meet Bunnie (thanks for the bunny, Bunnie!).

The single most hiliarious thing at the meeting, IMHO, was a music video called Middle-Earth Idols, very cleverly put together by a pair of teenage sisters, Ashlee and Rachel Scott. (They have a website where you can download the video.) You havent lived until youve seen Frodo lip-synching to Thriller, Denethor doing Disco Inferno, etc. you get the idea. This, and the other fan music videos shown, used a lot of clips from the LOTR films (which, of course, made us want to WATCH the films again). As I mentioned to Achila and ceefour, the great majority of the clips were of faces not of spectacular battles or scenery. Which just goes to show, once again, why we love these movies: because of the characters and their struggles, not because of the special effects.

ceefour

08-04-2006, 07:11 AM

Alas for The Faculty Lounge members up front! If He Who Shall Not Be Named had shown, they would have been thisclose. But,Such words and ifs are vain.C-seated in the cheap seats in back-4

P.S. "Crablegs from Dublin!" is a bit of misconstrued dialogue. It is, of course, "Crebain from Dunland!"

Mariole

08-04-2006, 09:05 AM

Ceefour, you are cruel and heartless. Keep up the good work! :D :haha:

Thank you and Pelagia for the trip reports. I hope some fun was had, in spite of it all. :( *sympathetic sigh*

Achila

08-04-2006, 11:16 AM

Hi all! Just wanted to chime in with what Pelagia and ceefour already said. The ELF weekend was wonderful as far as meeting friends both old and new (seeing Bunniebugs was a great treat, etc.) but was quite overpriced, IMHO, for what was provided and pointed up just how much of a disappointment the One Lad's not being there was. In case anyone would like to check it out, the website for that parody video is www.marsproductions.net -- enter and look for the link to downloads.

(ETA -- I'm thinking that I should amend my sig line to say "Achila -- one who has seen 'the eyes'...only not at ELF!")

Pelagia

08-04-2006, 07:09 PM

ceefour

08-04-2006, 08:28 PM

Psst! The Two Towers-The Complete Soundtrack will be available in late October.

C4

BunnieBugs

08-04-2006, 08:48 PM

Mariole, we did have a good time at ELF. After all, we're all such good company! (I.e., all equally goofy.) The main problem, I felt, was that we all got so excited on Friday at the prospect of a video hookup with EJW on Saturday; and so when that failed to materialize, it put quite a damper on things. It might have been better if they hadn't gotten our hopes up.I agree, Pelagia. In light of how it turned out, I really wish that they hadn't even said anything. Think what a huge, delightful surprise it would have been, if it had materialized! But if it hadn't, in our ignorance we would simply have continued on having a great time.

I, too, had a wonderful seat, though not as close as Achila and Pelagia, in spite of being in the front row (except for the occasions where Billy literally came and stood right in front of me, at which point I could have reached out and touched him. Literally that close! ;)). In fact, I liked my seat so well that I renewed it for next year. :) It was a lovely, fun time!

EDIT OF THE HIGHEST MAGNITUDE:

OMG I'M ALL A-FLAIL. Look look look what someone pointed me toward: an interview from the Giffoni Film Festival (http://www.lanacion.com.ar/entretenimientos/nota.asp?nota_id=825781) in which Elijah says (the article is in Spanish, so this is a babelfish translation): And I am working in a script of Steve Martin, "Picasso At the Lapin Agile", that counts an encounter between Einstein and Picasso; I will be the father of the theory of relativity.

*flail and squee*

He also says that he has been studying filmmaking for six years, hoping to eventually direct something. And he confirms that the Iggy biopic will be called "The Passenger" (though I personally still think that could change) and that he has had to lose several "kilos" (do you suppose he actually said "pounds"?) for the role.

Signing off, still bouncing. :D

Alyon

08-05-2006, 01:02 AM

Bunnie:
....Elijah says (the article is in Spanish, so this is a babelfish translation): And I am working in a script of Steve Martin, "Picasso At the Lapin Agile", that counts an encounter between Einstein and Picasso; I will be the father of the theory of relativity.

Such fantastic news!!!!!!! Yay, Bunnie!!! Thanks so much for posting this!!! :cool: :D :D :D

honeyelf

08-05-2006, 01:53 AM

And I am working in a script of Steve Martin, "Picasso At the Lapin Agile", that counts an encounter between Einstein and Picasso; I will be the father of the theory of relativity.

*flail and squee*

Yes! Yes! Yes! :D :D :D Best news in months!

honey!!!

whiteling

08-06-2006, 11:16 AM

*WOO HOO* Elijah will be Einstein!! Thanks, Bunnie, for this fantastico news! :)

from a Canadian play review: Picasso at the Lapin Agile raises some interesting questions about the relationship between art and science. More importantly, its actually quite funny. Its a wonderfully self-reflexive piece of work, pulling the audience into the act whether or not they want to be onstage. Go, and listen to what might have been, had these two geniuses ever met.
Sounds not half bad, eh? :D

And a big thank-you to our ELF ladies for their reports. :k

tgshaw

08-06-2006, 07:16 PM

Bunnie - Highest magnitude, indeed!!! Sometimes dreams do come true! Next to Frodo, this is the part that's come up for Elijah that I'm most excited about, and with the rumors going up and down over the last few years I'd pretty much given up on it.

In honor of the occasion, I spent way more time than I should have :rolleyes: attempting to translate that interview. Thank goodness journalists write for a sixth-grade reading level, because that's about where my Spanish is at (if even that high)! I still had to find an online dictionary that would not just give definitions but even conjugate some verbs for me.

I probably should have stopped when I saw how much time it was taking, but by then it had become a challenge :p . Just don't bet the farm on any of this being correct! I often put double question marks when I'm not sure of something; since I'd copied the text from a Spanish site, they came out "up and down," which was kind of fun.

Other notables stopped by the festival: Elijah Wood (The Lord of the Rings), Kathy Bates (the actress that you remember playing in Misery, a drama by Stephen King) and also Aurelio De Laurentiis, nephew of the celebrated Dino and a producer, as you know, of [lists several movies] and now the president of Napoli, the team [group?] of the brilliant Diego Maradona.

Farewell to the rings

[Note: "Ojitos de gato" must be an idiom. I couldn't find a definition of it online, but did find it as the title of a love song. It's literally "little eyes of the cat," but the diminutive doesn't necessarily have to do with size. It can mean something like "darling". Is anyone familiar with the phrase?]

Except for his ojitos de gato he does not remain like that hobbit in the work by J.R.R. Tolkien. Is Elijah Wood in the process of breaking away from Frodo, his character in The Lord of the Rings by Peter Jackson.

Elijah: "It certainly is a significant and definitive momentum [push] of my career I admit, meeting the young people of the GFF, celebrated [in the sense of remembering or keeping an occasion] that episode. But now, to something else."

He has actually had many years since participating in film, after his debut at 9 years old in 1989, in the second part of Back to the Future: scoring parts in movies and TV, before the movie in New Zealand got the accolades of the day [then, possibly of comrades, but Im not sure].

From Frodo to now "saying hello to" Iggy Pop and a young Einstein: according to his revelations, he will soon be these icons on the big screen. In person [literally in the sight - I kind of like that :) ], Elijah is a rare combination of adolescence and maturity, although always responding with an air that is calm and extremely rational [thoughtful?].

Interviewer: [Something about speaking with the young people - maybe Elijah said this when talking to the group, or the group told the interviewer this?] "...you play the piano and are a fan of Smashing Pumkins and Radiohead. Did you have to look into [seems to mean something like think over] your decision to encarnate Iggy Pop in the movie?"

Elijah: "A little, yes. The film is titled 'The Passenger', and it is about one of the most famous singers. My appearance is enough like him, but I had to slim down a number of kilos.

"Iggy is also a legend for me. I must confess that I am enthusiastic [excited/electrified] to measure myself with a person of that caliber. I love to try [as in taste or test out] many things."

Interviewer: "¿Including directing?"

Elijah: "I have studied movies for six years; I want to try as a director, without doubt, but also I am interested in producing."

Interviewer: "¿In what are you working, apart from the portrayal of Iggy Pop?"

Elijah: "There is coming out a film based on the assassination of Bobby Kennedy, directed by Emilio Estévez. This coming year will be the premier of Bryan Gunnar Coles "Day Zero", a dramatic film. And I am working in a screenplay [interesting that the Spanish word is specifically defined as screenplay rather than script, since it started as a play] of Steve Martin, "Picasso at the Lapin Agile", that recounts a meeting between Einstein and Picasso; I will be the father of the theory of relativity."

Interviewer: "¿What is the life of a young man of 25 years who is also a veteran actor?"

Elijah: "Very normal. My parents taught me to separate work from diversions and games. I practice sports, go out with friends, study the cinema. I would like to have time to study the guitar. I would dare to say that my life is even boring."

Interviewer: "Hundreds of young people delight in meeting Frodo, their idol when [since?] they were very small. Your feelings?" [Note: I'm wondering if "hundreds" was referring to the ones he actually did meet at the festival.]

Elijah: "I believe I am more touched than they with the meeting. A phenomenon I see everywhere [literally: I dont see nowhere]."

BunnieBugs

08-06-2006, 07:37 PM

Thanks for that translation, TG. Much better than the babelfish gibberish! I wonder if that last line might be, "A phenomenon I have seen nowhere else," rather than "A phenomenon I see everywhere." Wouldn't that make more sense?

tgshaw

08-06-2006, 08:10 PM

I don't know - I mean, he does pretty much see it everywhere, doesn't he? :confused:

I'll admit that was probably the most difficult sentence to figure out, with the multiple negatives:

Un fenómeno como éste no lo he visto en ninguna parte.
"Ninguna parte" is specifically "nowhere", and as I read the sentence it's "A phenomenon that not I have been seeing nowhere" -- or something like that. :rolleyes: "There isn't anywhere I haven't been seeing this phenomenon." "Visto" is the verb form that would be similar to "have been seeing" - a continuing experience.

I could certainly be wrong on that - but wouldn't he have a hard time saying honestly that he hadn't seen the reaction anywhere else?

BunnieBugs

08-06-2006, 08:27 PM

I read that sentence in reference to the previous one, where he says that he was more touched at meeting the kids than they were him, which most certainly is not the usual case! :)

Brummie

08-07-2006, 07:46 AM

Thanks tg, for your sterling work in translating this article.
I read that sentence in reference to the previous one, where he says that he was more touched at meeting the kids than they were him, which most certainly is not the usual case! :)
I agree, but read the this in the final sentence "A phenomenom like this I have seen nowhere else", as referring to the Giffoni Film festival itself, with so many talented children around.

BunnieBugs

08-07-2006, 09:57 AM

I agree, but read the this in the final sentence "A phenomenom like this I have seen nowhere else", as referring to the Giffoni Film festival itself, with so many talented children around.Ah, that makes even more sense! Thank you, Brummie!

Mechtild

08-07-2006, 03:19 PM

Thanks Bunnie, Whiteling, tg, et all. This has been rather exciting news. Dare we get our hopes up?

:z:

~ Mechtild

Achila

08-07-2006, 07:15 PM

The Happy Feet marketing has begun -- this is SOO cute!

http://www.hallmark.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product|10001|10051|650876|-2;104468;108551||P0R203SO|products

Pelagia

08-10-2006, 10:20 AM

Bunnie, tg, and whiteling: Thanks for the information and translations about Elijah as young Einstein. Something to look forward to! Heres a photo of him (Einstein, that is) at age 26:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v653/Lalage/youngeinstein.jpg

Or check out this artwork (I cant figure out how to post it here):

http://www.kathrynbarnes.com/YoungEinstein.html

whiteling, I think we need your talents to come up with a portrait! :z:

Im a bit nonplussed at the thought of Elijah slim[ming] down a number of kilos. Hes not exactly pudgy to begin with. And isnt a kilo equivalent to 2.2 pounds? Or is it the other way round??

Achila

08-10-2006, 10:26 AM

Im a bit nonplussed at the thought of Elijah slim[ming] down a number of kilos. Hes not exactly pudgy to begin with. And isnt a kilo equivalent to 2.2 pounds? Or is it the other way round??

Actually, I think he already lost the weight -- don't know why this came up again. But what I can't get over is Elijah with a German accent *goes off to ponder that a bit* *needs drooly emoticon*

Mariole

08-10-2006, 11:42 AM

Wow, Pelagia, they're practically dead ringers!

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y30/mariole/youngeinfro.jpg

Probably he said "a number of pounds" and they translated it as "a number of kilos". Although 2 would be "a number", wouldn't it?

Ooh, Elijah with a German accent. Ja, that would be goot! *is happy*

tgshaw

08-10-2006, 12:21 PM

Actually, I think he already lost the weight...

If I got that part of the translation right, Elijah's response was in the past tense:
...I had to slim down a number of kilos.
The interviewer had asked about the Iggy Pop role.
------------

While going after the "Lapin Agile" script at amazon, I ran across the screenplay for Roxanne. Hadn't realized Steve Martin had written the screenplay for that movie besides playing the leading man. Quite a literate script, actually (along with plenty of goofiness). The parallels to Cyrano de Bergerac go far beyond the main character having a big nose - enough so that IMHO it could legitimately be called a modernized retelling of the story (with "modernized" including the addition of a happy ending - primarily due to the intelligence of the heroine).

The same book contains the screenplay for L.A. Story, which he also wrote. I haven't seen that movie and know nothing about the script. There are both "hated it" and "loved it" reviews on amazon, with at least one of the "loved it" reviewers saying the "hated it" reviewers obviously didn't grasp its subtlety.

-------------------
ETA:
But what I can't get over is Elijah with a German accent
Does he get the mustache? :z:

whiteling

08-10-2006, 12:39 PM

And isnt a kilo equivalent to 2.2 pounds?
Yes, a kilo equals 2.204 pounds (hail to my dictionary!)
Pelagia, thanks for linking to Kathryn Barnes website. She does not only interesting portraits, but also lovely humming bird pictures. :)

Mariole, I agree, Albert and Elijah must be twins -

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0903/whiteling/einstein.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0903/whiteling/Elijah_grim.jpg

Well... rather distant related twins :confused:
I guess everything is relative... :p

Oh, and I chave to agrree wiz Fräulein Achila und Fräulein Mariole, zis iss going to be werrry interrresting, I mean zat wiz Elijah speaking German accent. :D

Tg, a big thank-you for your translation. :)
I've seen not much of Steve Martin's work, but I do remember to having seen "L.A. Story". Many of the jokes didn't work in Europe, but one line is still in my memory; Steve shows his girl friend a street and points out its antique age: "Some of those houses here are older than 30 years!"
:lol:

ETA: Does he get the mustache?
I'm afraid, yes. :D

Achila

08-10-2006, 12:53 PM

Oh, and I chave to agrree wiz Fräulein Achila und Fräulein Mariole, zis iss going to be werrry interrresting, I mean zat wiz Elijah speaking German accent. :D

My only hope :z: is that it's not a stupid, cliched German accent. That will totally ruin it for me. :(

Mechtild

08-10-2006, 01:00 PM

My only hope :z: is that it's not a stupid, cliched German accent. That will totally ruin it for me.:(
I hope it's better than his cockney accent.

~ Mechtild

:cool:

whiteling

08-10-2006, 01:04 PM

Mechtild - :D

I freely would offer to let you know how good his German accent is, but unfortunately I won't have the pleasure (?) of hearing his own voice. Grr. :rolleyes:

sneaking

08-10-2006, 01:42 PM

A little bit about Day Zero from one his co-stars (http://www.tvguide.com/News/Insider/?cmsGuid=%7BE66D567D-AD40-4CD1-81BD-E2CE45CB6EF8%7D):

I also just finished a movie called Day Zero, which I'm probably most proud of. It takes place here in New York and is set a year in the future, when we're at war with Iran and they've reinstituted the draft. It stars myself, Elijah Wood and Chris Klein as three best friends who grew up here in New York and all get drafted. It's a wonderful drama.

1) At war with Iran? I'd not heard that bit before. Hmmm. Lovely.

2) Potential for bad New York accent disasters? It's a low budget film and I doubt there would be any money for coaching. I suppose the saving grace is I probably can't tell if a NY accent is bad or not.

3) Jon Bernthal really looks like Chris Klein to me. If this is not a plot point, it's a bit odd.

4) This guy looks kind of tall from that picture. Chris Klein must be 6 foot (or taller). Is Elijah going to look especially dinky in comparison?

5) At least this guy seems to like the film. I know they all say that, but he seems to prefer it to his other upcoming stuff.

Achila

08-10-2006, 02:14 PM

From EW's (that's Entertainment Weekly, kids :D ) list of 10 most anticipated fall movies:

http://www.ew.com/ew/article/commentary/0,6115,1224754_1||233612|1_0_,00.html

(And as for Elijah's Cockney accent, let's not forget that he was 12, OK? ;) )

Pelagia

08-10-2006, 03:35 PM

Mariole and whiteling, thanks for the Einstein/Elijah comparative photos. As for the question of accents, I'd be just as happy without them, whether we're talking about a German one for Elijah or a Spanish one for whoever plays Picasso (do we know??). After all, the two men presumably communicated in French, so why bother with accented English? And it can be a real distraction if not done well.

Speaking of accents (natural ones), the other day on the radio, I heard an interview with two political dissidents from Ukraine. I could hardly follow the discussion because I was laughing so hard: they both sounded just like Alex in EII!

BunnieBugs

08-10-2006, 07:07 PM

(And as for Elijah's Cockney accent, let's not forget that he was 12, OK? ;) )I supposed she was referring to Oliver Twist, in which case he was closer to fifteen, wasn't he?

I'd have to agree that unless they get some really good dialect coaches, they're better off skipping the accents altogether. Has anyone seen a production of this, or know whether accents are normally used onstage?

Mechtild

08-10-2006, 09:10 PM

I agree, Bunnie. If they don't get in good coaches for the film, they should skip the accents. EW did a lovely job voicing the role of Frodo, but he received very good coaching, I am guessing -- which, perhaps, the actors didn't get in Oliver Twist. (Richard Dreyfuss certainly didn't have much going for him in the accent department.)

As to EW's age playing The Artful Dodger, Oliver Twist was released for TV in November of 1997, two months after the U.S. theatrical release of The Ice Storm (September 1997), and a year and a half after the release of Flipper (May 1996).

I don't know what the shooting schedule was for Oliver Twist, but I am guessing EW was fifteen when they filmed it, maybe having passed his sixteenth birthday (Jan. 28). Probably, he would have been sixteen during post-production, when he still might have been doing ADR.

Maybe you are thinking of The Adventures of Huck Finn? Its U.S. release was April 1993.

Achila

08-11-2006, 07:14 AM

I supposed she was referring to Oliver Twist, in which case he was closer to fifteen, wasn't he?

Ah yes, quoite. :D I forgot about that one (I was thinking of his little Cockney bit during Huck Finn). But even at 15, I wouldn't expect someone without a dialog coach (there's none listed in the credits) to do a decent job on a difficult accent, particularly in a Disney film.

Mechtild

08-11-2006, 08:14 AM

Ah yes, quoite. :D I forgot about that one (I was thinking of his little Cockney bit during Huck Finn). But even at 15, I wouldn't expect someone without a dialog coach (there's none listed in the credits) to do a decent job on a difficult accent, particularly in a Disney film.
I fogot about his little cockney sequence! Now, that was cute. But Huck was only supposed to be fooling unsophisticated rural folk. (How Huck could ever have heard a cockney accent before, in order to imitate one, I don't know. Perhaps he and Jim watched old movies on the raft. ;) )

As to not expecting EW in Oliver Twist to produce a proper accent without the help of a dialogue coach, exactly so. Which is why it is hoped that a coach is hired for the Picasso/Einstein film, should they use accents. :)

Skater girl

08-11-2006, 09:29 AM

Elijah did spend a good deal of time with Franka Potente, who speaks English with a German accent, probably more so in real life than in film roles when she isn't concentrating on how she sounds so much. Add to that his having gone through intensive voice coaching for LOTR, where he will surely have picked up a lot of techniques on how to go about learning new accents, and I reckon he should be able to do a good job if he has to.

Personally, I thought he made a very good stab at a Cockney accent in both Oliver Twist and (especially, given his age) in Huck Finn. Charlie Hunman's accent in Hooligans had me cringing from the off, but I don't remember having this feeling when I watched Oliver Twist for the first time. True, my judgement may have been coloured by the fact that it was Elijah, and maybe any shortfalls in his accent were overshadowed by the total incompetence of the poor kid playing Oliver, but I still have every confidence in him.

Perhaps he should prepare for the role by taking some actual German lessons with Whiteling - so he can get the feel of the language ;). I find that when I move between Italian, German and French, I am producing movements with my vocal instruments that have to come from way outside the repertoire I need for English and that each language has a very distinctive feel about it. I think the bad and cliched accents come out of people simply trying to copy what they think they hear, rather than trying to feel it.

I don't know much about what this film will be about, but is it likely to be the story or the nationalities of the characters that matters? I hadn't really ever registered that Einstein was from Germany, despite the German name, and I wouldn't like to state with any certainty where Piccasso actually came from. I am sure I am not alone in this, and if it is the story of what happens that is most important, I would rather they didn't clutter the film up with a hotch potch of unnecessary accents.

tgshaw

08-11-2006, 10:57 AM

(How Huck could ever have heard a cockney accent before to imitate one, I don't know. Perhaps he and Jim watched old movies on the raft. ;) )
Mechtild - That question had crossed my mind, too :p . But, yes, that one's supposed to be bad. -- Absolute best accent work in that movie or just about any other one I've seen is Robbie Coltrane's "Duke." Years later, when I saw him on a talk show using his regular voice it floored me - I never would have guessed he wasn't American!

I think the biggest clue about the nonexistent coaching for Oliver Twist was when Elijah said in an interview at the time that the accent "wasn't that difficult." Of course not, because no one bothered to tell him that the way he did it wasn't right. :rolleyes:

from Skater Girl:
I would rather they didn't clutter the film up with a hotch potch of unnecessary accents.
I can't decide whether or not I really want to see Kevin Kline do an Elvis impersonation :eek:

BunnieBugs

08-11-2006, 11:01 AM

I can't decide whether or not I really want to see Kevin Kline do an Elvis impersonation :eek:Eek. Is that really the role that Kevin would be playing? Isn't he a bit... long in the tooth for that (or is that intentional)? Just saying. They should get someone like Jonathan Rhys Meyers who played Elvis with credibility a few years ago. At least he's closer to the right age.

tgshaw

08-11-2006, 11:11 AM

Bunnie - I think that was the original plan, but this movie's been in and out and up and down for so long that he's probably missed out. (But, then, if we're dealing with relativity, maybe he aged faster - or came from a parallel universe where Elvis didn't do drugs and lived to a ripe old age? :haha: All kinds of possibilities.)

Mechtild

08-11-2006, 11:15 AM

Skater Girl, I think that is DEFINITELY a good idea for EW to take German lessons with Whiteling. I know she would rise to the occasion. ;) Maybe she could do a portrait series of him while she ran him through his verb tense and noun gender drills?

tg, I forgot completely that that was Robbie Coltrane! You are right; one cannot tell he is not American.

Bunnie, what's this about Kevin Kline playing Elvis? *luuuuuuurved Kevin Kline in the recent Prairie Home Companion film as Guy Noir* Or is he playing an Elvis impersonator (much more likely, and potentially much funnier)?

~ M

Achila

08-11-2006, 11:22 AM

Here are the people who are attached to the film so far -- no cast assignments as yet but of course, we know about Elijah:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0323635/

A cool bit of "Six Degrees" there with Kevin Kline -- that's not even one, I reckon! :cool:

tgshaw

08-11-2006, 11:28 AM

Mechtild - The character in the play is actually listed as "the visitor" - that is, a visitor from the future. By all accounts, in the play it's Elvis Presley. I can't always trust my memory, but I'm pretty sure that when this came up a couple of years back, Kevin Kline was said to be cast as "the visitor."

In the movie, of course, everything could change. I just hopped over to IMDb to see if they had him listed for a specific role [ETA: Achila and I must have been looking at the page at the same time ;) ], but he's just "attached," like everyone else. I did notice the little tidbit that Paul Williams is credited for the movie as "lyricist." This might not mean there will be any new songs, because he's already written songs that have been sung by a lot of people, including... Elvis Presley :p (and the Carpenters and Kermit the Frog and...)

Ryan Phillippe (not sure how many l's and p's in his name), also listed as "attached" at IMDb, is the actor who was said to be cast as Picasso when this was being talked about previously.

[ETA regarding zero degrees of separation: Kevin Kline and Lindsay Lohan are both in Prairie Home Companion, currently in theaters. That could be a useful link for future "Six degrees of Elijah Wood" games, with Meryl Streep, Lily Tomlin, and Tommy Lee Jones also in the cast. And, yes, OMG! Who else could you possibly cast as Guy Noir other than Kevin Kline? :cool: ]

honeyelf

08-11-2006, 11:31 AM

I can't decide whether or not I really want to see Kevin Kline do an Elvis impersonation :eek:

Is that who they have doing Elvis? I was kind of hoping it would be Ryan Philippe. :z: He's got a certain pouty quality. I agree with Mech that KK is too long of tooth.

That would leave Jason Biggs for Picasso...

luuuuuuurved Kevin Kline in the recent Prairie Home Companion film as Guy Noir*

Mr. Kline dissapointed me as Guy Noir. Poor Guy, he never had a chance though, as I had a visual in my head to match the voice and Mr. Kline's face wasn't it!

Would it be weird of me to admit that I have a crush on Kai Ryssdal's voice? He's the guy who hosts "Marketplace" on NPR. I'm totally not a financial whiz, but sometimes I listen just to hear his voice. But I will NEVER look up his picture on the net, because it would most certainly dissapoint. Bad enough that I know what Ira Glass looks like! LOL Not that Mr. Glass looks bad; it's just that he doesn't look like he sounds, and therefore doesn't particularly sound the same for me any more. :haha: [/NPR geek]

honey!

ETA: I simulposted with TG. It wasn't my intention to contradict, I was just going on which faces I thought fit each character. :confused:

tgshaw

08-11-2006, 11:38 AM

Gee, we haven't been in "chat" mode for a long time! :D :cool: I guess Guy Noir is like Aragorn - Everyone pictures him in a different way, so you can't please everyone. :p (In the Premiere article about the movie, the caption under Garrison Keilor's pic said, "A face made for radio?" -- BTW, he wrote the article. :D )

Mariole

08-11-2006, 11:58 AM

Perhaps he should prepare for the role by taking some actual German lessons with Whiteling - so he can get the feel of the language ;).
The feel of the language, Whiteling. My goodness, this isn't the Harem! *hides from mod, begs forgiveness* :p

Achila

08-11-2006, 12:08 PM

BTW, TG and all, I noticed that someone on the IMDB board for "Picasso" now insists that Kevin Kline is NOT attached to this film.

sneaking

08-11-2006, 12:12 PM

Personally, I thought he made a very good stab at a Cockney accent in both Oliver Twist and (especially, given his age) in Huck Finn. Charlie Hunman's accent in Hooligans had me cringing from the off, but I don't remember having this feeling when I watched Oliver Twist for the first time.

I actually thought his accent was better in Huck Finn (anyway as he was an American kid imitating an accent there was no real reason for it to be any better than it was - if anything it was far too good for a missippi kid of that time). His accent in Oliver Twist was a bit off but no more so than a lot of actors get it wrong (and no worse than anybody else in the film so it doesn't stand out). One thing it was was very consistent. Hunnam's accent was going all over the place which is why I never managed to get used to it and just completely stop noticing it as you can with Elijah's in Oliver Twist. Every time Charlie opened his mouth it was like chalk on a blackboard. It was worse because you could tell he was really, really trying and you wanted him to get it right and it just didn't happen.

I hope this Lapin film does happen. It sounds really interesting. I suppose they all have to do the accents or nobody does. It might depend how "realistic" they are trying to be. I suspect it's not a realist film so "normal" accents would be OK.

tgshaw

08-11-2006, 12:34 PM

IMDb does have some control over what's posted, but they're certainly not always right. And when they really check things out is when someone says that something should be changed (I went through the process when they had a 1940's Western listed on Billy Boyd's filmography). The list of "attached" people they have for "Picasso" now is basically the same list they had a couple of years ago with the expected release date changed - If Kevin Kline has become "unattached" since that time, someone might have to cite a published denial in order for him to be taken off the list.

BTW, Sneaking - It's the Mississippi River, but Huck is a Missouri boy, ;) so he'd have basically a "Midwestern" U.S. accent with maybe a tint of Southern to it. By the time Huck and Jim get to the main action of the movie, they've gotten far enough down the river that they're among people with more of a Southern accent.

Stu is a Mississippi boy, and I have seen a couple of people from that state say his accent is pretty good. :)

sneaking

08-11-2006, 01:30 PM

BTW, Sneaking - It's the Mississippi River, but Huck is a Missouri boy, ;) so he'd have basically a "Midwestern" U.S. accent with maybe a tint of Southern to it. By the time Huck and Jim get to the main action of the movie, they've gotten far enough down the river that they're among people with more of a Southern accent.

Woops, sorry about that. I never realised that before. I guess I've got a patchy concept of US geography (not to mention spelling) :lol: When I read the book as a kid, Mississippi river = Mississippi only (which is ridiculous in retrospect) and I definitely read the book as if everybody was speaking like Gone With the Wind (which I know is waaaaay off). At that age my main/only concept of US State information were the Little House on the Prairie books, collectable fridge magnets and that people went to Florida on holiday.

whiteling

08-11-2006, 01:31 PM

Skater Girl, I think that is DEFINITELY a good idea for EW to take German lessons with Whiteling. I know she would rise to the occasion. ;) Maybe she could do a portrait series of him while she ran him through his verb tense and noun gender drills?

In truth, Elijah and I have been working on his German accent for a long time, Mechtild.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0903/whiteling/Frodomanips/Elijah_and_me_practising_Ge.jpg

"Very good, Elijah! Now repeat "Relativitätstheorieverständnisproblem". And don't forget, my dear, roll your r's nicely..."

(Thanks to Jean-Baptiste Chardin for his painting "The young Schoolmistress")

Erm, with all this verb tenses and ambiguous verbs I forgot completely about the portraits... :D

Yes, Mariole, this is not the Harem, so I had to make a modest manip ;).

sneaking

08-11-2006, 01:34 PM

Yes, Mariole, this is not the Harem, so I had to make a modest manip ;).

Modest? Just follow her eyeline and see where she's looking. ;)

whiteling

08-11-2006, 01:37 PM

Modest? Just follow her eyeline and see where she's looking. ;)
Busted!

:lol:
(:o)

Achila

08-14-2006, 09:39 AM

"Very good, Elijah! Now repeat "Relativitätstheorieverständnisproblem". And don't forget, my dear, roll your r's nicely..."

No, no, your "ch"'s arrrrren't juicy enough! :lol:

Mechtild

08-14-2006, 10:26 AM

Modest? Just follow her eyeline and see where she's looking.
Ha! That WAS good, especially since at first I skimmed it so quickly, I thought the young woman was supposed to be Whiteling doing his portrait. "This is not going to be the usual head-and-shoulders", I thought.

~ Mechtild

ylla

08-15-2006, 10:31 AM

My dear friends on The Faculty
Many of You may have been wondering where I've been and Why I haven't posted in awhile
2 yrs ago my family was in rough shape...never thought things could be worse than what was happening back then...well I'm sad to report....they have been ,and are continuing to be....most certainly not an "on topic "discussion here...but in the past you've always indulged me...and I think you will again. Way too much to go into detail here, and probably not appropriate to do so. Those of you that read LJ can see my journal and it will give you a bit of a feeling for the struggles my family is dealing with.
For now I am once again calling on those of you that pray...to do so
For everyone else, I ask for you to send your positive energy over here....you guys did so well with your gifts to me before.....maybe you can work a little magic again :z:

you can find me over on LJ as ylla999 :k

whiteling

08-16-2006, 05:33 AM

(((((Ylla))))) :k
"... and in all lands, love is now mingled with grief."
I'm sending positive thoughts and prayers your way, dear!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0903/whiteling/frodos_hug_small-1.jpg

***~~~~~~~~~~***

On a much lighter note...

The Bagginses check Sting's sharpness before cutting Shelbyshire's birthday cake...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0903/whiteling/frodo_bilbo_sting.jpg

Happy Birthday, Shelbyshire! :)
Hope you are having a great day!

"This is not going to be the usual head-and-shoulders", I thought.
Oh gosh, what *are* you thinking of me?! :eek: ;)

*noise of Elijah's hoarse voice, practising in background: "ch-CH-CH "*

Achila

08-16-2006, 07:14 AM

*noise of Elijah's hoarse voice, practising in background: "ch-CH-CH "*

And "cat-hiss" CH too, hopefully!

ceefour

08-16-2006, 07:43 AM

Sending good thoughts and wishes to ylla.

Happy Birthday, Shelbyshire!

C4

Alyon

08-16-2006, 11:01 AM

(((Ylla))),
I just went and read your journal and I am so sorry for your pain -- it's so hard, what life can throw at you. You have been wonderful in a hard situation. My thoughts and love go your way. Hang in there and know that people are caring about you and your family.

BLOSSOM

08-16-2006, 03:37 PM

Ylla - Sending hopeful wishes and hugs to you at this difficult time. :k

And for the Birthday Girl...

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y121/Blossom10/Birthdays/Shelbyshire.jpg

Elijah seems thoughtful here... perhaps he's pondering on what to get you for a present. :)

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y121/Blossom10/Birthdays/EWthoughtful.jpg

Hope you're having a wonderful day! :)

BunnieBugs

08-16-2006, 04:06 PM

Happy Birthday, Shelbyshire!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v32/bunniebugs/Picspam/29.jpg
Elijah arrives at the party and immediately scans the crowd for Shelbyshire.

Don't keep him waiting! :)

Mechtild

08-16-2006, 04:22 PM

Ylla, I stopped by your LJ, but I wanted a deliver a special hug to you here, too. ((((((((sweetie!)))))))) :)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v382/mechtild/Elijah%20Wood/ElijahPremiereRotKLAhugsDom.jpg

ETA : Shelbyshire, your present is in the Haven; it's not quite the thing for here. ;)

~ Mechtild :k

Shelbyshire

08-16-2006, 10:52 PM

Ah, Mechtild...no, not for The Faculty Thread. But, hey, EVERYONE is invited over to the haven to check it out. *blushes* Well, not it but ...umm...I mean...the tights!

Whiteling, thank you, we didn't use Sting after all to cut the cake but Frodo let me play with it for awhile. Swords are so cool. :)

I'll see you over at the Quote thread, ceefour. There's no way I can end my birthday with this particular post number. One more post (to make it #667) yet to go tonight. Elijah seems thoughtful here... perhaps he's pondering on what to get you for a present. :)Oh, BLOSSOM, he doesn't realize it yet but he already gave me the best present of all......Frodo Baggins! :k

BunnieBugs, I only stepped out to the ladies room. Do you think he'll notice the two glasses waiting for us right next to him? I hope so.

Thanks all! Birthdays are wonderful here!!

(((KD))) (((The Faculty))) (((Quote Game))) (((Elijah's Hugs Haven))) (((Frodo's Harem))) (((Lurkers))) and especially (((ylla)))

honeyelf

08-17-2006, 12:39 AM

(((Ylla))) For some reason I thought of you in church on Sunday, and wondered how you were doing, and why I hadn't friended you at LJ. Maybe you were thinking of the Faculty at the same time! I'll keep you in my :z:

Happy Birthday, ShelbyShire! :k :k :k
http://static.flickr.com/47/172479356_6c9ed58546_o.jpg

And now if you'll excuse me, I'm gonna wonder off with four hobbits and this suspicious Ranger fellow. I'm re-reading the book, and loving it all over again.

honey! (Hey, it's still August 16th where I am! :o )

Mariole

08-17-2006, 10:06 AM

(Elijah) doesn't realize it yet but he already gave me the best present of all......Frodo Baggins! :k
Oh, well said! :p Happy belated birthday, Shelbyshire! Big hugs... from the appropriate character. :)

sneaking

08-17-2006, 06:31 PM

The release dates for Bobby have altered a little. 17th November in New York and LA. 23rd November nationwide.

This is a good thing. 22nd of November was just a bit too tacky.

Achila

08-17-2006, 06:34 PM

...which means that in NY and LA, at least, it opens the same day as Happy Feet...

Shelbyshire

08-17-2006, 09:39 PM

Thank you for the Pacific Standard Time birthday wish, Honey and from Mariole too. They are much appreciated.

*sidesteps over to LJ to read Mariole's latest*

SandCastles

08-18-2006, 11:17 PM

:o

Belated Happy Birthday, Shelbyshire!

:o

SandCastles :)

Shelbyshire

08-19-2006, 12:13 PM

Thank you, SandCastles! It was a good day!!

Lady Wendy

08-20-2006, 02:18 PM

Happy Birthday, Shelbyshire !!!

Hope you had a brilliant day on Wednesday and I'm sorry I'm a tad late !!...
:D :D :D

Hello everyone in here...I thought that I'd just pop in after a very long absence, to show you this tiny little interview with himself, over at E! Online:-

Flair of Elijah:

Prolonged exposure to the One Ring, it is written, makes a person strange. Elijah Wood has avoided this fate. He's one of Hollywood's best-adjusted young actors, despite following up The Lord of the Rings by playing some real nut jobs. Like the tourist who joins a British soccer fight club in this month's Green Street Hooligans. Or literary nerd Jonathan Safran Foer in Everything Is Illuminated, opening soon. Or whatever that perverted thing was in Sin City. And it's good to see that Wood at least keeps the pathology strictly onscreen.

Ever really beat someone up?
I'm not a violent person. I would much rather walk away or talk something down than resort to violence. That just seems so unnecessary.

Should Manchester United have been sold to an American?
These teams are incredibly important to the towns they come from. When one is owned by someone from (A) a different town and (B) America, for God's sakes, that's a pretty significant blow. I'm only making an assumption here. But I personally think, based on the information I heard, that it's pretty f--king tragic.

Do you look for roles requiring huge, crazy glasses (Sin City, Everything Is Illuminated)? Or do they find you?
These are not things that are predetermined. Yeah, though, there have been a couple of different characters with glasses. But one thing I loved about playing Jonathan Safran Foer was the character had such a distinct look. Such a practical kind of suit every day, and these odd glasses. They reflect the sense that he is at arm's length with the world.

The guy is kind of a kook. Is the real Jonathan Foer like that?
No. And I don't know that Jonathan was ever as weird as that, necessarily. The book is obviously a fictional tale with truth included. But he is in his head, he's quiet.

You are strongly identified with one of the most successful movie franchises in history. How does that make you feel? Trapped? Rich? Depressed?
There's no escaping it. But the thing about the fans of Lord of the Rings is that they're incredibly supportive of and interested in everything that I do. I actually just went to a Lord of the Rings convention and hung out with the fans.

But you still haven't read the trilogy, have you? Nor Everything Is Illuminated, for that matter.
I know it gives off the impression that I am not a literate individual. But I do love to read. My history with reading is so bizarre. I read a lot when I work, but I don't read when I have free time. I've got this weird thing.

Are you going to give up movies and become a music mogul?
A mogul? Oh, no! God forbid. I am sort of in the process of starting a small label. The idea of cultivating bands that I believe in and helping get those bands heard just seemed to be incredibly gratifying. But I've always conceived of it being on a really small level.

Seen King Kong yet?
I've seen about 20 minutes of it. It looks amazing. I think it's going to be truly incredible.

Now, I know it doesn't really tell us much that's new, but it's nice to read anything these days, while we're waiting for a film, any Elijah film, to get to a release date !! :rolleyes:

The other thing is that Primula Baggins, over at Live Journal, has started up an "Elijah_con_community", with the idea of arranging an actual convention for Elijah Wood fans, next year, and so anyone who would like to contribute in the way of getting up to speak on any Elijah-related subject, is welcome to put their ideas forward...come over and see for yourself...I reckon there may be some people in here who would be interested in this...
I can't link to the Community or her own Journal, of course, but most of you probably know your way there by now anyway ;) !!

Shelbyshire

08-20-2006, 11:02 PM

Elijah in an interview...But the thing about the fans of Lord of the Rings is that they're incredibly supportive of and interested in everything that I do.Everything? Of course! :k

Thank you Lady Wendy for the belated birthday wishes!!

Prim

08-21-2006, 02:40 AM

LatE. sorry.

Love to Shelbyshire on her birthday. I hope you had joy :). Many happy returns.

Prayers and blessings for Illya.

Shelbyshire

08-22-2006, 10:49 PM

Thank you, Prim.

And, Lady Wendy, I'm sorry. The dog and I almost slept through your birthday! The day may be over where you live but I've got 12 minutes left here. Hope it was a good day!!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v638/Shelbyshire/normal_EVERYTHING_IS_ILLUMINATED-10.jpg

honeyelf

08-23-2006, 01:25 AM

Yipe! I missed Lady Wendy's birthday??? :o Hope it was a happy one anyway! :k :k :k
http://static.flickr.com/94/222681881_b819be4d46_o.jpg

honey!

Prim

08-26-2006, 06:35 PM

Happy Birthday Lady Wendy Hope you had a great day. :k
Crumbs, but its slow here. Is everyone on a late summer holiday???

Shelbyshire your sig is making me want to go back and reread LoTR for the umpteenth time... :)

Achila

08-27-2006, 01:46 PM

Well, I'm back...

Sorry to have missed birthdays -- I hope they were all great!

+++++
BOBBY (2006)
Directed by Emilio Estevez
Starring Elijah Wood, Lindsay Lohan, Demi Moore, Anthony Hopkins &
William H. Macy

I have just seen one of the frontrunners of Oscar 2007 and it could
be the contemporary, American film that hits it out of the park with
critics and viewers. "Bobby" which tells the story of the
assassination of Robert Kennedy, the little brother of the late and
also assassinated President John F. Kennedy, and what was going on 16
hours before it happened. We are thrown back and forth between 22
characters stories and lives. Emilio Estevez, who wrote, directed,
and co-stars in the film has truly elevated his level of direction of
writing. This is the same man who wrote and directed hit and miss
films like "Men at Work" and "The War at Home." He parallels us
through a journey of injustice, racism, prejudice, adultery, and
more. This film much like "Crash" could be the multi-character film
that has the "Good Night, and Good Luck" touch that makes it to the
ceremony.

This film leads an all-star cast of some A-list and some B-list
actors.William H. Macy plays the manager of the famous Ambassador
Hotel (which theOscars were held at a few times) and Sharon Stone
plays his wife and hairdresser of the hotel. Heather Graham plays one
of switchboard operators whoMacy is having an affair with. Demi Moore
plays Virginia Fallon, the alcoholic lounge singer who is set to
introduce the doomed candidate of the presidency. Estevez portrays
Moore's husband and manager being tormented inside by his wife's
addiction. Lindsay Lohan who as a step now to bring herself into more
serious roles, depicts Diane, a young bride to be, who ismarrying her
boyfriend's brother to keep him from going to Vietnam.

Elijah Wood plays the future and very grateful husband. Freddy
Rodriguez known for his role in "Six Feet Under" and Jacob Vargas
known for his supporting rolesin "Traffic" and "Jarhead," play
Mexican kitchen staff members whom are working a double shift and are
in search of equality. Laurence Fishburne is Edward Robinson, an
older black kitchen staff employee who is teaching his staff members
about offering more to life than anger. Joshua Jackson and Nick
Cannon are campaign managers for the infamous Bobby. Real life father
of Emilio Estevez, Martin Sheen is Jack, a depressed older man who
marries a younger woman portrayed brilliantly by Helen Hunt.
Christian Slater isTimmons the very racist kitchen staff manager who
is not subtle about his feelings towards minorities. And veterans Sir
Anthony Hopkins and HarryBelafonte are John Casey, the owner of the
hotel and Nelson, an old friend reminiscing of the old days in the
hotel. And at the end we have a little Ashton Kutcher, Shia LaBeouf,
and Mary Elizabeth Winstead.

The movie races against the clock to bring us into all these
characters lives and show us about America and where we've come from.
The film has it all, some comic relief coming from Kutcher, your
strong political message, the dramatic elements, and the emotional
punch that lays the icing on the cake. This is one of the most
important films of the year and if justice is served this will be on
many critics' top 10 lists of the year. I can't explain too much more
about the film without giving away vital parts but it speaks to
America. It shows where we've been and where we are now. The mention
of Dr. King and his impact on people fighting for equal rights
ismentioned quite of a bit. Bobby Kennedy was the light at the end of
the dark tunnel of America. People believed he was going to do some
amazing things for us and we might never know if he would have lived
up to those expectations but I am now very informed of his life and
legacy and how much he meant to so many individuals.

Oscar prospects are as follows: Emilio Estevez could very well be the
Paul Haggis of the year with his excellent writing and direction of
the film. I never would have thought he had it in him to pull of this
emotionally and politically charged film out of him. The performances
are amazing and mind blowing but with 22 different characters as
oppose to Crash's ten or twelve it's hard to pick a standout. I'd
place bets for Laurence Fishburne who has already received raves for
his "Akeelah and the Bee", Helen Hunt's haunting and powerful
performance very reminiscent of Julianne Moore's performance in "The
Hours", and if critics go crazy over it then we could see Harry
Belafonte as the veteran of the year to make it to the short list for
the first time. My favorite of the cast was by far Freddy Rodriguez
as Jose who brings a sense of humanity to his role which mirrors
Michael Pena's Daniel in Crash. I wouldn't even be hesitant to say
Christian Slater was great as a racist who also mirrors Matt Dillon's
Oscar nominated performance in Crash.

As you can see this is a more political Crash with a Good Night, and
Good Luck flavor with a side of The Constant Gardener. This is my
number one film of the year thus far and I cannot wait to see the
final product because it was a pre-screening with some choppy editing
but all the other elements with Thomas Newman's powerful score
makes "Bobby" the most enjoyable and imperative film of the year.

http://www.theoscarigloo.com/Reviews/2006/bobby.html

sneaking

08-28-2006, 08:50 AM

That's the same positive review from a while back when they were screening. Most of the others were mixed (or worse). Most of the discussion on this film on the filmy type blogs is not that promising e.g. This guy (http://hollywood-elsewhere.com/archives/2006/08/three_toronto_p.php) is talking about "mild distress signals":

"Emilio Estevez's Bobby (Weinstein Co., 11.17) -- Estevez is a director who has demonstrated his chops three times before (Wisdom, Men at Work, Rated X), and I just don't see this one working out all that well, especially with all the problems he had during production. That really funny Bobby story written last year for Esquire by screenplay polisher John Ridley includes a crew-member judgment that the script reads like "an episode of Love Boat '68." And then there's that Bobby one-sheet, which uses three lines that Sen. Ted Kennedy spoke in his eulogy speech for his slain brother during the funeral service at St. Patrick's Cathedral: "He saw wrong and tried to right it. He saw suffering and tried to heal it. He saw war and tried to stop it." As ad copy this reeks of dishonesty. And there's also that initial announcement that Bobby is going to be screened as a "work in progress"."

The work in progress thing this late in the game is the big red flag, unfortunately as it can't be put down to media prejudice against Estevez/personality problems/usual type of film making problems. On the other hand, at least they are still working on it (and haven't just given up and will dump it as it is).

I think the best thing to do is to significantly down play expectations. There's also even a chance it's going to be toe curlingly embarassing and a total disaster. Not particularly anything related to TOL or the quality of his performance in it, just the film in general. The good thing is, even if it's a bad film, TOL won't be the worst person in it or a big target for the blame game. I'm definitely just hoping it's at least passable - and also hoping to be pleasantly surprised.

Achila

08-28-2006, 09:36 AM

There was a guy on Oscarwatch who saw one of the screenings in NYC and pronounced it simply awful. We'll see.

Brummie

08-28-2006, 04:34 PM

Well, I'm back from the Oxford Tolkien conference, where I had the joy of meeting tg and listening to some very interesting papers, and two days in Dublin where, in the National Gallery to my surprise, I discovered Jean-Baptiste Chardin's painting "The Young Schoolmistress" used by Whiteling a little while back. But the schoolmistress in the gallery was right-handed... ;)

Having acquired an LJ, where I call myself earths_daughter I have posted my brief account of Oxford there.

Bad news about Bobby. Like sneaking, I am expecting the worst and hoping for the best.

Mechtild

08-28-2006, 05:57 PM

Brummie (earths_daughter), I read your report on the papers you heard and very much enjoyed it. I wish I had heard them, too. :)

~ Mechtild

Achila

08-28-2006, 06:08 PM

Brummie, I'd love to friend you -- I'm aquila0212. Glad you and tg had a good time!

Brummie

08-29-2006, 05:49 AM

Achila, I'd be delighted. Yes, we did have a great time. I am hoping that tg will be able to write about some of the other papers on the days I missed.

Achila

08-29-2006, 07:29 AM

Done, Brummie! :)

Mechtild

08-29-2006, 07:49 AM

Brummie, I have just friended you, too.

Achila, I'd be delighted. Yes, we did have a great time. I am hoping that tg will be able to write about some of the other papers on the days I missed.
Yes, yes! A report from tg!

~ Mechtild

tgshaw

08-29-2006, 08:19 AM

Seems most of the Bobby complaints center on too many stories and too many "all-star cast" members - leading to the Love Boat comparisons. (Love Boat usually had casts of "stars" who were on their way out, though, which I certainly hope isn't true here. :( ) It takes an incredibly gifted director to make a great movie with those elements... should I stop there? But, yes, hoping for the best. May be a chance to see how much Elijah's progressed in developing a character on his own without as much director input as usual.

This was on the news crawl this morning - Thought I'd share it, since it involves a fellow EJW admirer:

'Harry Potter's' Radcliffe goes to war

From United Press International
August 29, 2006 6:37 AM EDT

LONDON, Aug 28, 2006 (UPI via COMTEX) -- Taking a break from portraying Harry Potter, British actor Daniel Radcliffe is set to join the Irish Guard in the new film, "My Boy Jack."

The Hollywood Reporter said the 17-year-old actor, who has risen to fame playing the fictional Hogwarts student, will now take on the role of famed author Rudyard Kipling's son for the World War I drama.

Radcliffe will play 17-year-old Jack Kipling, who was able to join the military due to his famous father's efforts, but later went missing in action, never to be found again.

The film is based on a novel by David Haig, who will take on the role of the "Jungle Book" author for the production, the Reporter said.

The actor said that the concept behind the film, which is scheduled to air next year on Britain's ITV, intrigued him and said that it is especially relevant given the current circumstances in the world.

"I've always been fascinated by the subject (of World War I) and I think it's as relevant today as it ever was, with young men still sacrificing their lives in the name of war," Radcliffe told the newspaper.

Which leads to Tolkien, of course ;) - Even though I missed John Garth's opening evening lecture on "Tolkien, Exeter and the Great War" because of my plane being six hours late leaving Chicago. :rolleyes:

I won't say much here and now about the conference because I have to go to work and most of it's off-topic for this thread -- But it was an amazing experience on many levels. My boss was disappointed that I didn't get a chance to "see the sights" in London, but IMHO being immersed in Oxford for five days was better than running off to look at Big Ben (no offense to Big Ben admirers :) ).

It was great fun meeting Brummie, and especially sharing the tour of "Tolkien's Oxford" (which was actually more a tour of "C.S. Lewis's Oxford," but that's another topic :rolleyes: ). I haven't had a chance yet to install the software to make my photos post-able but will work on that. I tried to capture a picture of Brummie in front of the Eagle and Child, but I'm not sure I got it. (Don't worry, if I did it's fairly long-distance ;) .) It was my very first day using a digital camera and I'm not sure quite what I got shots of and what I didn't.

IMHO, Brummie picked the best day to attend - the only thing I'm really sorry she missed was the informal conversation the next evening with Priscilla Tolkien, Robert Murray (see letters ##142, 156, and 209), and C.S. Lewis's secretary Walter Hooper. I absolutely adore Priscilla. She takes after her father "in more than looks" as the Gaffer might say. But that would take more time to write about than I have right now.

During the rest of the conference, a number of people made comments and asked questions about whether we'd really met on-line. I think it gave a bit of "real life" credibility to the benefits of the internet among a group of academic and extremely book-centric Tolkienites. During a "round-table" discussion of what we're each currently working on, I did warn anyone who really hates the movies that they should probably stay away from my website. ;)

Achila

08-29-2006, 08:27 AM

Welcome home, tg -- glad you had what sounds like a wonderful time!

Mariole

08-29-2006, 09:27 AM

I just read Brummie's LJ writeup and TG's above-- thank you so much for sharing your experience! That would be so cool to see Priscilla Tolkien! *fangirls a bit* Thank you both for your enticing snippets. :k

Brummie

08-29-2006, 11:25 AM

Welcome back, tg.
I'm glad to hear I chose the best day, though that three-handed conversation had the makings of an historic and possibly never-to-be-repeated event. I hope they taped it. I look forward to hearing more when you are ready.

tgshaw

08-29-2006, 12:05 PM

Yes, it was taped, although I think only the audio. There was also a photographer (who another American and I agreed looked exactly like Father Mulcahy :D ) taking a lot of pictures. Everything from the conference is supposed to be available eventually, but knowing how long things like that can take I'm not holding my breath.

IMVVHO, Priscilla was the one worth hearing. Walter Hooper, of course, mostly knew C.S. Lewis and told some funny stories but I didn't learn much about Tolkien from him. Robert Murray was quite young at the time he and Tolkien were exchanging letters, and when asked what he'd said in his letters to prompt some of Tolkien's remarks, he couldn't remember - although he did share some other memories. But after listening to Priscilla's remarks and stories about her childhood, if I ever hear someone repeat the statement that the Professor was a "distant" father, I'll whup them up the side of the head. :mad: Of course, Tolkien said in at least one letter that he didn't think he was a good father - but my feeling is that no matter how good of a father he was, he would have thought that he should have been better.

I didn't realize at the time how rare it is for Priscilla to make public appearances. And she was not only at that scheduled conversation but also at some of the presentations. She came to the lectures the morning after the "conversation," and took one of the speakers to task about stretching his conclusions too far - and she was right ;) . Like father, like daughter :cool: . It must have been terribly intimidating, though, to have her sitting there.

Can I get this all back on topic by saying that I think Priscilla and Elwood would get on famously together if given the chance? :haha:

Achila

08-29-2006, 01:22 PM

Don't know if this has been posted already -- if so, please to forgive (I've been on vacation -- 'nuf said!):
+++++++++++++

"BOBBY" GETS ENSEMBLE ACTING HONORS FROM HOLLYWOOD FEST

Weinstein Company's "BOBBY," Disney's "PIRATES OF THE CARIBBEAN: DEAD MAN'S CHEST," Disney/Pixar's "CARS," and 20th Century Fox's "X-MEN: THE LAST STAND" will be presented with awards at the 10th annual HOLLYWOOD AWARDS.

The 10th Annual Hollywood Film Festival, presented by STARZ, is proud to announce that this year's festival will honor the cast of "BOBBY" with the "Hollywood Ensemble Acting of the Year Award," Disney's "PIRATES OF THE CARIBBEAN: DEAD MAN'S CHEST" with the "Hollywood Visual Effects of the Year Award," Disney/Pixar's "CARS" with the "Hollywood Animation of the Year Award," and 20th Century Fox's "X-MEN: THE LAST STAND" with the "Hollywood Make-Up of the Year Award."

The awards will be bestowed upon the honorees as part of the Hollywood Awards Gala Ceremony on Monday evening, October 23, at the Beverly Hilton Hotel.

The announcement was made by Carlos de Abreu, Founder and Executive Director of the Hollywood Film Festival. "Every year we are very proud to honor excellence in the art of filmmaking in all its disciplines, and this year's honorees are outstanding examples of that excellence," said Mr. de Abreu.

"BOBBY," written and directed by Emilio Estevez, revisits the night Robert F. Kennedy was gunned down at the Ambassador Hotel in 1968. With an incredible ensemble cast portraying fictionalized characters from a cross section of America, the film follows 22 individuals who are all at the hotel for different purposes but share the common thread of anticipating Kennedy's arrival at the primary election night party, which would change their lives forever. This historic night is set against the backdrop of the cultural issues gripping the country at the time, including racism, sexual inequality and class differences.

The film, a release by the Weinstein Company that will open in theaters on November 22, features Harry Belafonte, Joy Bryant, Nick Cannon, Emilio Estevez, Laurence Fishburne, Brian Geraghty, Heather Graham, Anthony Hopkins, Helen Hunt, Joshua Jackson, David Krumholtz, Ashton Kutcher, Shia LaBeouf, Lindsay Lohan, William H. Macy, Svetlana Metkina, Demi Moore, Freddy Rodriguez, Martin Sheen, Christian Slater, Sharon Stone, Jacob Vargas, Mary Elizabeth Winstead and Elijah Wood.

"PIRATES OF THE CARIBBEAN: DEAD MAN'S CHEST" will be honored with the festival's "Hollywood Visual Effects of the Year Award." From Walt Disney Pictures and Jerry Bruckheimer Films and directed by Gore Verbinski, this summer blockbuster enthralled audiences with its extraordinary and thrilling visual effects. Captain Jack Sparrow (Johnny Depp) is back in this sequel to "Pirates of the Caribbean: The Curse of the Black Pearl" and he owes an unpaid debt -- his soul -- to Davy Jones (Bill Nighy) and his army of sea-phantoms. In dangers of their own, Will Turner (Orlando Bloom) and Elizabeth Swann (Keira Knightley) are also caught up in Jack's fight to save himself from eternal damnation.

"CARS," an animated feature from Walt Disney Pictures/Pixar Animation Studios, will receive the festival's "Hollywood Animation of the Year Award." Directed by John Lasseter and Joe Ranft, "CARS" is the story of Lightning McQueen, a hot-shot animated stock-car voiced by actor Owen Wilson. En route to a big race, the cocky McQueen gets lost and lands in Radiator Springs. There he finds the true meaning of friendship and family with the help of Doc Hudson (Paul Newman), Sally Carrera (Bonnie Hunt) and other members of the community.

"X-MEN: THE LAST STAND," from 20th Century Fox and Donners' Company, will be awarded the "Hollywood Make-Up of the Year Award." Brett Ratner directed the film. In "X-MEN: THE LAST STAND" a "cure" for mutants threatens to alter the course of history. For the first time, mutants have a choice: retain their uniqueness, though it isolates them, or give up their powers and become human. The opposing viewpoints of mutant leaders Charles Xavier (Patrick Stewart), who preaches tolerance, and Magneto (Ian McKellen), who believes in the survival of the fittest, are put to the ultimate test -- triggering the war to end all wars.

Other industry professionals who will be honored for their achievements at the Gala Awards Ceremony are Oscar-winning cinematographer Vilmos Zsigmond who will receive the "Hollywood Cinematographer of the Year Award," Academy Award-winning editor Joel Cox who will be honored with the "Hollywood Editor of the Year Award," Academy Award-winning composer Gustavo Santaolalla who will get the "Hollywood Composer of the Year Award," two-time Oscar-winning production designer John Myhre who will receive the "Hollywood Production Designer of the Year Award," costume designer Penny Rose who will be honored with the "Hollywood Costume Designer of the Year Award," and casting director Francine Maisler who will be honored with the "Hollywood Casting Director of the Year Award."

The 2006 Annual Hollywood Film Festival will take place from October 17 to 23. The festival's screenings take place at ArcLight Theatres in Hollywood. Its Hollywood Awards Gala Ceremony will be held at the Beverly Hilton Hotel, Monday, October 23.

Mechtild

08-29-2006, 02:11 PM

Thanks, tg. Now BOTH you and Brummie fill me with wistful longing and envy. Thanks so much for talking a little about your Oxford experience and, especially, your more detailed remarks about Priscilla Tolkien. I really enjoyed reading them. :k

~ Mechtild

tgshaw

08-29-2006, 03:44 PM

Very encouraging news regarding Bobby, Achila - but I'm a little confused. Does this mean they've already screened the movie and decided it deserved the award? Seems a little early in the year to decide something like that. :confused: But I wouldn't think they'd want their name attached to giving an award to a movie that's really awful, so this does seem hopeful. :z:

Achila

08-29-2006, 07:28 PM

Dunno, TG -- I can't quite figure that out either. But this does bode well (maybe ;) )

BunnieBugs

08-30-2006, 11:35 PM

I don't really have anything to add to the discussion, but I wanted to point out a recent interview that Elijah did. Intel is apparently having a contest to give away "Elijah Wood Custom Laptops" (http://www.myspace.com/centrinoduo) (and, no, I don't know what makes it specifically an Elijah Wood model), and they offer a printed interview with him here (http://creative.myspace.com/groups/_crs/intel/0821/elijah.html). It's interesting, but, MAN, could they have used a proof reader! :rolleyes:

Achila

08-31-2006, 11:06 AM

An article in the NY Times about "Paris, Je T'aime", with a mention of Lij:

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/27/movies/27hohe.html

sneaking

08-31-2006, 02:08 PM

Sort of Off Topic.

I've just created a livejournal (sssneaking) because I'm interested in the online convention mention above.

I think I've found the community and tried to join it. Do I need to do anything else? If I've got a completely empty journal thingy, am I likely to get rejected or do they allow anybody in? I'm not really sure how it all works. I couldn't see anywhere to put "I'm not a psychotic weirdo, honest guvnor".

BunnieBugs

08-31-2006, 02:15 PM

I think I've found the community and tried to join it. Do I need to do anything else? If I've got a completely empty journal thingy, am I likely to get rejected or do they allow anybody in? I'm not really sure how it all works. I couldn't see anywhere to put "I'm not a psychotic weirdo, honest guvnor".I think you should be fine, sneaking. I don't think they're rejecting anyone, but if you're not allowed in before tomorrow, let me know and I'll put in a good word with the moderator. :)

Mechtild

08-31-2006, 02:41 PM

I think you should be fine, sneaking. I don't think they're rejecting anyone, but if you're not allowed in before tomorrow, let me know and I'll put in a good word with the moderator. :)
Oh, Bunny. *sigh* You are so cute.

Sneaking, I don't think there should be a problem. There are one or two LJ users on my friends list who have never posted an entry in their own journals. When someone friends my journal and I don't recognize their name, I click open their User Info page to see if there are any clues there about who they might be, or how they happened upon my journal (such as mutual friends on LJ). Sometimes there's nothing on their User Info page but their list of friends. I don't assume they are stalkers or weird, but just people who want to be able to comment in other people's LJ's, or keep tabs on LJ's they are interested in (like the community you want to join), through the device of the friends list.

~ Mechtild

tgshaw

08-31-2006, 04:01 PM

I couldn't see anywhere to put "I'm not a psychotic weirdo, honest guvnor".
Just say, "Hi, my name's Bob." :haha:

[I have a brother named Bob, and he does get kidded about the use of the name to refer to generic online psychotic weirdos. He seems to weather it all right, though. :p ]

sneaking

08-31-2006, 05:50 PM

:) "Bob" just makes me think of twin peaks. I don't think I look disreputable enough for that, although online anything is possible. ;)

Thanks Bunnie and Mechtild. I think I'm just in nervous, clueless newbie mode.

Achila

08-31-2006, 07:21 PM

This was one of the blog messages on that page Bunnie posted (thanks, luv!). Keep an eye out for this one -- our guy has now become a penguin guru, thanks to Happy Feet:

||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
August 8th Elijah Wood Blog

Hello folks! I just returned from a day in San Diego, where I taped on-camera segments for a Discovery Kids documentary titled, "Saving a Species: The Great Penguin Rescue." It follows the tragedy of an oil spill off the coast of South Africa and the rescue and recovery of nearly the entire penguin population that was effected. Ee filmed the segments at Sea World with Lauren Dubois, who was one of penguin experts that took part in the spill rescue in South Africa. I was able to spend a lot of time around various species of penguin, from a beautiful King Penguin named Tut, to an Adelie, and a Macaroni. I was also taken behind the scenes of the polar bear exhibit, which was truly amazing. I knew that they were large animals, but I wasn't prepared for how massive they truly are. The one I was able to see, behind two caged doors, stood at 11-feet in height. The abominable snowman! Whilst at the park, I was also able to spend time with flamingo chicks and the dolphins. It was a privilege. Just installed two gigs of ram onto my computer. Ahhh, much faster now. Like a sigh of relief. I hope ya'll are having a fun summer and staying cool; there has been some remarkable heat this summer.
-Elijah

BunnieBugs

08-31-2006, 11:48 PM

Thanks Bunnie and Mechtild. I think I'm just in nervous, clueless newbie mode.No problem! It looks like you got into the community okay. :) If you'd like to be able to see the entries from your own friends page rather than having to go to the community page, you can simply add it to your friends list. That might save you a click or two. In fact, if you follow anyone else's journal on a regular basis, you can add them as a 'friend' and all their entries will show up on your friends page, too. (If this doesn't make sense, feel free to PM me and I'll try to explain it.)

Eandme

09-03-2006, 12:51 PM

Hey people! It has been a while since I last posted, so this is just to pop out of lurkdom and say I hope everyone is well, and enjoying the end of summer (at least it is in my hemisphere) and I hope to see many of you guys at elijah_con_2006, which I attempted to join today. Always a latecomer... also I'd be interested to know if Wood and I will be meeting any of you at Ring*Con in November. Cause that would be grrrreat. :)
Oh and yes, I thought I was having a lucid dream when I found out Elijah keeps a public blog online. Turns out "...dreams do come true!"

honeyelf

09-04-2006, 11:14 AM

testing....testing...one...two...three

I don't have anything important to say, except how much I'm enjoying Elijah's 'blog.' He's so bright. And I like his taste in paintings too! His taste in music? Well, it overlaps mine a little, but not by much.

It's been so quiet around here lately... :(

honey~

Achila

09-04-2006, 11:38 AM

One of my friends saw a trailer for Bobby on TV last night so keep your eyes on the web, in the usual places. It should show up soon.

Happy Labor Day to my American pals! (and Happy Day to my non-American pals!)

Mechtild

09-04-2006, 11:55 AM

He's got a blog? Really?

honeyelf

09-04-2006, 12:48 PM

Yeah, Mech. It's a thing he's doing for Intel. See BunnieWabbit's LJ. Fun to read.

Seems early for ads for Bobby to be out, doesn't it? For some reason
I'm never kindly disposed to a movie when I've seen the trailer over and over and over again. :rolleyes:

h!

BunnieBugs

09-04-2006, 01:24 PM

Seems early for ads for Bobby to be out, doesn't it? For some reason
I'm never kindly disposed to a movie when I've seen the trailer over and over and over again. :rolleyes: I don't think it's too early, considering that the film will be debuting quite soon at a couple of different film festivals, and one of the television entertainment shows (Entertainment Tonight I think?) is doing a week-long series featuring the film this week (I think. Jeez, I'm very out of the loop on this one, aren't I? :eek: ).

I've already scoured the web for further signs of the trailer, but to no avail. I expect it will turn up soon, though.

sneaking

09-04-2006, 01:44 PM

I thought for this type of film, the trailer is usually around for the film festivals. So that has to mean incoming any second now. There should be some reviews of the film out pretty soonish (if there aren't already) as the first Venice screening was today.

<anticipation mode> or, possibly, <mild dread>.

Edit: OK, I failed to read la biennale's screening schedule correctly. The first screening is tomorrow at Venice

Edited again: I'm confused. There's what seems to be an Italian review of Bobby. However, through the miracle that is babelfish, it seems like some kind of a recap of the plot. Anybody speak Italian? The title sounds moderately promising (I think The Queen got 15 minutes applause and EII got some minutes applause last year; however, they never applaud out of politeness and films can get booed).

VENEZIA/ CINQUE MINUTI DI APPLAUSI PER "BOBBY" DI ESTEVEZ (http://notizie.alice.it/notizie/search/index.html?filter=foglia&nsid=12031457&mod=foglia)

Alyon

09-04-2006, 08:51 PM

What????!!!! Elijah has a blog!!! Okay, tomatoes right in my face (no fish please)--I've been away way too long. Go to Bunnie's lj??? Okay. I will. I definitely will. I've been distracted this summer--so though I lurk, I haven't been in here enough. But I got back a few days ago from taking my daughter to college in Los Angeles--so I've been doing all the emotional prep for that change in the past months. I know I'm not the only one ( see Mech), but it's a major rite of passage, and I wanted to do it right, so to speak. And so hello everyone. I have a little catching up to do....

Our family stayed with HoneyElf one night on the drive down. She was a lovely hostess, and she and her husband were very gracious. And now I know exactly where to picture her when I read her posts. And by the way, I got to see many of her fabric designs and she is really talented.

Happy birthday to everyone I missed!!
Alyon

Mechtild

09-04-2006, 10:05 PM

Thanks, Honey. BunnieWabbit' sLJ? O.K. Like Alyon, I have been clue-less. I can't plead distraction. I really have looked in here pretty regularly, but I sure did miss the thing about the blog.

~ Mechtild

ceefour

09-05-2006, 08:09 AM

Who locked the door to The Faculty Lounge yesterday and didn't leave the key under the mat?

I couldn't get to KD's home page all day yesterday and finally was able to get here last night by way of tg's site using the link in the glossary but then couldn't log in. :confused: But no problems today. :)

Anyway, it's good to be back!

C4

tgshaw

09-05-2006, 08:12 AM

My problem is that I'm here, but not much of anywhere else :rolleyes: , so most of what I know I find out right here. And I have to say I was suspicious of the first reports of Elijah's blog - first, because he's been impersonated on the web before, and second, because I had fond hopes that he hadn't been Britishized enough to actually use "whilst" :eek: :haha: . But doing it for intel makes sense.

honeyelf

09-05-2006, 12:14 PM

You didn't like "whilst", TG? :D

Hey, I'm told that Entertainment Tonight begins a week long series on Bobby tonight. Set your VCRs and DVRs if you dare!

honey!

sneaking

09-05-2006, 01:16 PM

I can't seem to find any Bobby reviews yet other than a bloggy one that's possibly unlinkable and burbles lots of rubbish. The only pertinent bit is "HA!!! You name them, they are in this movie...and super star power aside, its actually a great film! There were hardened film critics sniffling and CRYing near me".

I'm beginning to get optimistic about this.

Edit: I'm beginning to get even more optimistic!

The Hollywood Reporter (http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/thr/reviews/review_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003087492) AND Variety (http://www.variety.com/review/VE1117931460?categoryId=31&cs=1) are both positive.

HR: Bottom line: Great ensemble cast in a well-crafted look at the people who were there when Bobby Kennedy got shot.

V: Female idealism finds its heroine in young Diane (Lohan), who bucks her family to marry her schoolmate William (Wood) and keep him out of Vietnam. Both popular thesps are so low-key it takes a moment to recognize them.

BunnieBugs

09-05-2006, 11:11 PM

There is another mostly positive review from the Venice Film Festival at ScreenDaily (http://www.screendaily.com/story.asp?storyid=27522&r=true). I have to admit that I only skimmed it, being spoiler shy, but it sounds promising!

Brummie

09-06-2006, 04:24 AM

Trailer for Bobby here. http://www.movienewz.com/
It looks good and there is almost a kiss. :D

Mechtild

09-06-2006, 07:15 AM

Looks good, Brummie. Thanks! :p

~ Mechtild

Achila

09-06-2006, 07:17 AM

News about Elijah's penguin show for Discovery Kids:

http://news.awn.com/index.php?ltype=top&newsitem_no=17862

Also, I saw in the little paper given out on my train that The Flaming Lips' "Christmas on Mars" will finally hit screens this coming March.

sneaking

09-07-2006, 02:15 PM

And now for a very, very, very, almost comically negative review. From Time Out (http://www.timeout.com/film/news/1390.html) who, it has to be said, are tough and respected reviewers. They can often be a bit too cool for school, if you know what I mean. I'm putting the text in since I know that they usually go pay-for-view after a few days - mainly because I love the bit about Ashton Kutcher in the last paragraph.

Emilio Estevez doesn't first leap to mind when imagining a promising chronicler of America's recent past, and on the evidence of 'Bobby' (which he writes, directs and stars in), never was an instinct more true. It's one of those films that sounds good on paper: 24 hours in the life of Los Angeles' Ambassador Hotel, leading up to the death of Senator Robert Kennedy who was shot in the hotel's kitchen on June 6 1968.

It was a time of war, dissent, dashed ideals; go figure the parallels with now. Estevez cuts real footage of Kennedy into a drama that focuses on the supporting cast: the doorman, the hotel beautician, the idealistic party worker, the Mexican cooks. His attempt to shoehorn what he sees as the grand themes of the period into his choppy, unsubtle script are embarrassing, and never more so than when he tries and fails dreadfully to recreate the experience of an LSD trip.

A cameoing celeb cast (Ashton Kutcher, Lindsay Lohan, Sharon Stone, Demi Moore, Anthony Hopkins...) cock up the project further, pushing it into bitty, grandstanding sketch territory. The flaws of 'Bobby' are so horrible that you couldn't care less about what RFK has to say as one of his speeches rambles over the hysterical closing scenes.

What should feel like a well-honed orchestral recital ends up sounding like a series of poor high-school musical performances (with Kutcher on the recorder). The film played in Venice as a 'work in progress' but only a different script and cast could save 'Bobby' from itself.